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All Quiet In Ashburn

Hey there. Pretty dead out here. Saw Randy Thomas, Ade, Lemar, few other guys milling around.
The coaches are in meetings plotting the future with the scouts and Coach Joe takes part in those meetings and has discussions with The Danny as well.
They'll go through about three weeks fo this breaking everything down and evaluating everything, take a fwe weeks off, then come back and prepare for free agency and the draft.
It's a year-round process out here. Coach Joe is a worker, and they put in huge hours. No one questions that. You just have to wonder under their current structure if they are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 2, 2007; 12:56 PM ET
 
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Comments

JLC,

Great article yesterday. This organization is in shambles, but the good news is that Gibbs STILL thinks that "we're going about things the right way UP HERE". Sickening to hear.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 1:15 PM | Report abuse

You just have to wonder under their current structure if they are doomed to repeat the same mistakes

they're doomed to repeat the same mistakes unless ... :)

Posted by: dealer | January 2, 2007 1:16 PM | Report abuse

JLaC --

Thank you (to HB as well) for the in-depth articles.

(1) Any rumblings yet on Cerrato's future?

(2) Any rumblings yet on whether any coaches are being sought for other jobs?

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 1:18 PM | Report abuse

If I were Joe (and in a sense, I am) I would take a couple weeks off NOW. Take a step back and let the emotions of the season settle down. Then come back refreshed and ready to take a look at what happened.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 2, 2007 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Happy New Year everybody. Thank you JLaC for all the insight you provide about our beloved team. Coach Gibbs, you keep saying it's on you, and to judge you, but on 3 years, not 1 year. OK then...21 wins and 27 losses in 3 years. As the article points out so clearly, you're a bottom line type of guy. You can spin it any way you want about "core" guys and the 2004 free agent class, but again 21-27. As a bottom line guy, I'd have to say what you're doing is not working. Anyway, back at work today...first day back since the baby girl was born. Feels strange.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 2, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse

How 'bout that Boise State-Oklahoma game??? Wow.
A coupla things I want to share....
We always, always strive to get sources to go on the record and go with off-the-record material only when there's no other way to get a story that we feel is compelling and important. And we verify info we get independently.
After writing stories like these, it's also important to make your face shown at the park. So Jason and Howard are both there today, in case someone would like to reach out to them. One more piece runs tomorrow.
As for the playoffs, Howard will go to New England on Sunday. Jason will grab a few Ravens stories as we ramp up coverage of them. However, they'll both continue to be responsible for any Redskins goings-on.
Jason will go to the Super Bowl; Howard will do the combine.

Posted by: Jason's editor | January 2, 2007 1:29 PM | Report abuse

If I was Coach Joe. I would walk across better yet jump across the table punch double G in the mouth. Then tell him to get the hell out you're fired!!

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 1:30 PM | Report abuse

well, technically 2nd day back...had to work Xmas Day

Posted by: 4-12 | January 2, 2007 1:30 PM | Report abuse

dealer --

You aren't alone. One thing that is certain "up here" is that there are a few teams every season that looked hopeless the year before only to have great success a year later. Look at the Ravens. Last year the locker room was a mess. Ray was calling out coaches and the front office. Billick was a villian. Now they have a good shot at making the Super Bowl.

In today's NFL, the difference between 5-11 and 11-5 isn't that much. Many of the Skins' "personnel" problems (malcontents, players disagreeing with coaches, etc) are instantly cured by winning. Sure, the defense lacks playmakers. Draft picks are few and far between. Players are tired of the revolving door. But...re-sign Dock, keep playing physical on offense, finally give Campbell a full off-season as the starter, sign a true MLB and move Lemar back to OLB, sign a CB so Carlos can go back to nickle, get Pierson back healthy to guide the Reaper, and this team could easily be just as good as most in the NFC.

That's not to say that I don't want to see Cerrato canned and a proven talent evaluator -- and value evaluator -- installed and the team to reinvest in the draft. But turnarounds happen quickly in the NFL.

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 1:31 PM | Report abuse

JM, I'd prefer if Gibbs would just sat across the board room and give Grilliams the Trump-style hand cobra.

Gibbs: "Gregg, you made too many mistakes and you couldn't manage your unit. You're Fired. (cobra) Everyone else, back up to the suite."

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 2, 2007 1:38 PM | Report abuse

4-12,

Great point.

Joe, it HAS been 3 years....

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 1:46 PM | Report abuse

This team is doomed. Gibbs' arrogance is only surpassed by his ever-present state of denial.

Honestly, his pressers are pathetic, particularly when you contrast them with other head coaches on the 212.

The media's questions to him are equally poor. Where are the tough questions? 5-11 just got a couple of coaches fired and we treat this stiff like some sort of genious.

"They played hard." "Five games by three points we lost." (actually it was four).
"Fought our guts out." Can Swanson or someone feed him some new cliches to use already.

I am so sick of his pandering and placating to the fans - it's so transparently phony I could puke.

Again, let this arrogant has-been railroad this team into oblivion. We can still take solace that there are three dusty trophies out in Loudon County. Great.

Posted by: Greg | January 2, 2007 1:52 PM | Report abuse

This team is doomed. Gibbs' arrogance is only surpassed by his ever-present state of denial.

Honestly, his pressers are pathetic, particularly when you contrast them with other head coaches on the 212.

The media's questions to him are equally poor. Where are the tough questions? 5-11 just got a couple of coaches fired and we treat this stiff like some sort of genious.

"They played hard." "Five games by three points we lost." (actually it was four).
"Fought our guts out." Can Swanson or someone feed him some new cliches to use already.

I am so sick of his pandering and placating to the fans - it's so transparently phony I could puke.

Again, let this arrogant has-been railroad this team into oblivion. We can still take solace that there are three dusty trophies out in Loudon County. Great.

Posted by: Greg | January 2, 2007 1:54 PM | Report abuse

This team is doomed. Gibbs' arrogance is only surpassed by his ever-present state of denial.

Honestly, his pressers are pathetic, particularly when you contrast them with other head coaches on the 212.

The media's questions to him are equally poor. Where are the tough questions? 5-11 just got a couple of coaches fired and we treat this stiff like some sort of genious.

"They played hard." "Five games by three points we lost." (actually it was four).
"Fought our guts out." Can Swanson or someone feed him some new cliches to use already.

I am so sick of his pandering and placating to the fans - it's so transparently phony I could puke.

Again, let this arrogant has-been railroad this team into oblivion. We can still take solace that there are three dusty trophies out in Loudon County. Great.

Posted by: Greg | January 2, 2007 1:55 PM | Report abuse

What do you think will last longer, the Cowboys playoff hopes, or Gerald Ford's funeral?

Posted by: SMACK | January 2, 2007 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Dealer - you're right. I was just in wishing mode.

JLaC - It's not 'out here', it's 'up here'..........

Posted by: 4th Floor | January 2, 2007 2:00 PM | Report abuse

There are two major issues with this organization right now ... the management structure (as has been pointed out repeatedly) and the lack of accountability. Tell me, how many coaches on teams with better records have lost their jobs over the past three years? Why isn't this organization holding its coaches as accountable as its players?

Posted by: Robbie | January 2, 2007 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Back in NC from visiting my family in the NVA area. Brought a lousy cold or upper respiratory infection with me so today I feel like s***. At least I have my own keyboard again so the typos shoud be fewer.

I would never question Coach Gibb's commitment to improving the skins and I think that he thought he had done so at the beginning of this season. However lots of things changed. He ran a patsy training camp (They should get away from this area for their training - working out in Ashburn provides too many distractions although it does improve Mr. Synder's bottom line.) Obviously, some of the free agent talent was poorly evaluated although there appears to be hope for Carter. They cannot afford to get rid of Archuleta so I hope they are plainning some way to get play out of him. Loyd is a real head case and a potential locker room breaker. There are some real posibilities with Randel-El and he appears to play hard every play.

That said; what in the h*** can we do about the defense without many draft choices- we will probably be very active in the undrafted free-agent market this year. This may be the year we really see if Coach Williams can put together a no-name defense if nobody comes looking from another team. He would probably be smart to take a big salary cut and try to go elsewhere as it appears that he has really worn out his welcome here.

Proir post stated thing prettu well - evaluated over the entire three year period the defense has gone steadily down hill - 3rd place to 9th wasen't too bad but dead last in most important categories does not show progress

You folks who live in the DC area - please post any information you can about the skins - we don't get much down here; especially in the off season.

Happy New Year to everyone - even the Redskins.

Posted by: oldskinsfan | January 2, 2007 2:07 PM | Report abuse

What do you think will last longer, the Cowboys playoff hopes, or Gerald Ford's funeral?

Oh Smack that is just wrong!

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 2:08 PM | Report abuse

I know I feel better knowing Vinny is in their plotting the future of our team.

Anyone know where we are in the draft order this year?

Posted by: Skinz | January 2, 2007 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to pick up on the comments posted by CMoney. If you look at the past few years, the road to success in today's NFL is not linear. Only a few teams (most notably the Patriots) have had sustained success. Of the 12 teams that made the playoffs last year, seven didn't make it this year. Of the four teams who were in last year's conference championship games, three aren't even in the postseason now. And for the four top-seeded teams with byes this year, three of them weren't playoff teams last year. The Ravens and Saints were dismal.

Doesn't mean I don't think the criticism of the Redskins isn't fair or accurate. I just think it's important to look at things in the context of the greater picture. With parity the way it is in the NFL these days, the expectations that come with success one year could be the undoing of a team the following season. The fact that the Redskins will go into 2007 with a fraction of the expectations they shouldered this season, combined with Jason Campbell taking all the snaps in preseason and everyone working together another year, should work to their advantage.

Posted by: billyrich | January 2, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

Couldn't agree more. Your post was so good I'm actually glad you re-submitted 3 times.

I'm going to use the next 2 months to re-evaluate having season tickets... there really isn't much on the "pro" side right now.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Ricky Bobby,

I'm with you. Lots on the "con" list right now. Not sure if I want to pay anymore up here to fight my guts out to get to the stadium to watch this stuff.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 2, 2007 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Robbie --

As of now, it looks like Gibbs is the only guy to whom Snyder will defer all football-related power. I do not long for the days of Snyder running the weekly status meetings. So long as Gibbs being fired means Snyder regaining control of football operations, I don't think any Skins fan should want Gibbs to go. At least not yet.

What Gibbs needs is a proven player personnel guy who will tell Gibbs "no, that player is not worth 2 draft picks" and tell Snyder "no, that player is not worth $10M in guarantees." And I don't mean a guy who necessarily has final decision making authority (I think we can all agree that Gibbs won't give that up unless Danny says so) -- heck, the Patriots' Scott Pioli doesn't even have final say.

But JLaC's article exposes that Cerrato basically has as much say into which players the team acquires as the great Steve Jackson does. Instead, Cerrato is basically the guy who goes to Kinko's to put together pretty looking dossiers on free agents and college players. So Gibbs is driving blind into free agency and the draft. That is the biggest problem with the organization.

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

All quiet on the Redskins front
Now begins that offseason hunt
A free agent parade
Athletes overpaid
Oh well, guess I'll just smoke this blunt

Posted by: MV Dame | January 2, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Here Here to Billyrich. We need consistency. Don't change much and stay the course. Every team has their own way. We just need to add youth to our defense...........

We pick #6 in the draft........

Posted by: 4th | January 2, 2007 2:21 PM | Report abuse

CMoney,

I don't necessarily mean Gibbs. I agree that having him in such a powerful position within the organization is a good thing. But certainly some of the subordinate/assistant coaches should be seeking employment elsewhere.

I also know that a GM-like figure would be better for the Skins that the current setup. Since that's been argued to death, I'm staying away from it. I'm just curious as to why no one's being called to the carpet is all.

Posted by: Robbie | January 2, 2007 2:28 PM | Report abuse

billyrich, you can spin it whichever way you want but by any measure this organization is failing. Following 1992-1993 season: 4-12, 3-13, 6-10, 9-7, 8-7-1, 6-10, 10-6 (playoffs), 8-8, 8-8, 7-9, 5-11, 6-10, 10-6 (playoffs), and 5-11. That looks pretty linear to me.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 2, 2007 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Sorry for unsigned post.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 2, 2007 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I think the point is that anytime you over pay for players you won't be successful.

I agree that we will probably never see the likes of the 80's and 90's 49ers but there are teams that year in and year out compete.

You have to setup your team to make it to the playoffs. Once you make the playoffs anything can happen. That doesn't mean you'll win the SB every year butat least you have a shot.

Posted by: Skinz | January 2, 2007 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Until gets a good GM or personnel man, the team is doomed. Vinny needs to be fired and Saunders needs instruction on NFC play calling.

Posted by: maddog97 | January 2, 2007 2:37 PM | Report abuse

My thoughts for this offseason
Mgmt
1 Most important is to .... Acknowlege 2007 is a rebuild and grow year and that salary cap mgmt has been a disaster
2 Too many coaches so lose some especially on defense
3 Begin to change relationship with salary cap since it puts staff in situations where bad choices get made like Pierce and Clark
4 Get rid of deadweight like Arch and Lloyd as part of clearing cap for 2008 and beyond
5 Keep away from ALL pricey free agents since the Skins are not 1 or 2 players away
6 think depth and discipline when looking at players inside and outside


Offense
7 Get a coach to develop Campbell like Mariucci
8 Develop depth on O-line and add young WR in hope of upgrade

Defense
9 Call it a disaster. It did not work. Gave up lots of yards and set record for fewest turnovers. Rethink everything. More talent than results.
10 Find an MLB from current group of Rocky, Carter, Reaper or go to 3-4
11 Depth matters Griff is terrific when healthy which is 1/2 the time. Look for low price talent that can excel in certain situations like Clark/Harris did this year ... for other teams!
12 Get younger
13 Every day have Rogers catch 50 balls a day even if it takes all night

Special teams
14 All the tinkering appears to work. Had success in most areas. Suisam, Cartright Randle El are plusses but push Frost again though he probably keeps the job.

Posted by: AL | January 2, 2007 2:45 PM | Report abuse

jm220: if I hadn't seen your pics, I would have to wonder if you weren't a trump offspring with a budding career in wrestling. . .

btw, "smack to back of the..." is a much better saying than "you're fired" - which just doesn't sound right coming from you. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I agree. 2 playoff appearances in 15 or so years is horrendous... especially when you factor in the above point that the NFL standings change year to year. We have seriously become the Arizona Cardinals ON THE FIELD. And if NOT the Cardinals, then just a small step above.

Pros of keeping tickets:
1. There on game days, hopefully for more than 3 meaningful football games
2. Tailgating is a blast with friends

Cons of keeping tickets:
1. You have to buy pre-season games
2. You have already paid for meaningless football games if they suck... based on the last 15 years of Redskins history, that is a 70-80 percent certainty.
3. The cost is absurd. $87 per ticket to sit in the upper deck to watch a losing team??? $35 to park??? $8 a beer? I know this is not just the Skins, but it's a con no matter how you slice it.
4. I could have a new big screen TV by simply throwing away my invoice. Friends and family could come over and we could party that way. $.50 beers.
5. Traffic and congestion
6. Lack of ammenities at FedEx
7. Amount of opposing teams fans
8. Fights and stabbings
9. Easier to pee at my house. Don't have to miss half the 3rd quarter if I need to go to the bathroom at halftime.
10. Seniority is a non-factor with Snyder. Anyone with money can jump ahead of me and get better seats. In fact, unless I want to buy BS tailgate tickets, I will NEVER OWN A LOWER LEVEL SEASON TICKET.
11. You can walk up on gameday and buy a ticket to any game, at any time, at below face value.

What have I missed?

The crummy thing is that the 2 pros might outweigh the 11+ cons... right now. When I get out of my 20's and start having kids, etc, that will probably change.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Was at the game on Saturday with my 7 year old son. Generally we tailgate and do not begin our walk to the stadium until 45 minutes before kickoff. This time we did not and planned on eating inside. As we were approacking the stadium at about 530pm or so I was amazed to hear (what I thought) was the place rocking like a playoff game. Then I see people milling about in front of the gates, and think "there are a lot of people inside and out so far from kickoff, this is going to be tremendous".

Then reality set in the crowd near the entrances were waiting for the gates to open, and the noise was the pumped in crowd noise I have heard so much about. All of my epxeriences are in a generally full stadium as I arrive so close to kickoff, and when people here would speak about the artificial noise, I had no idea what they were talking about. Now I know, and I am ashamed that they do it. SDo now I can add that to the list of embarassments I have so far (directions to the fans on how to cheer, the silly Funky Four, etc). Ick.

Also (sorry for the long post), is FedEx becoming a bit thuggish? I saw more than a handful of fights in the stands. I do not recall that from 5-6 years ago.

I was more of a lukrer than a poster on the blog, but I enjoyed my guts out reading all of the supersmart comments on our team.

Posted by: Wingtastic | January 2, 2007 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Wow, since the Gibbs I era, only one coach has a .500 cumulative record during his tenure with us: Marty.
Snyder fired him to bring Vinny back and hire Spurrier.
Sure makes it hard to argue against Snyder as the main reason to blame for our misery.

Posted by: Can I Borrow a Feeling | January 2, 2007 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Wing,

Pretty sad, huh? And FedEx is definitely becoming thug central... but that's what happens when you can buy tickets for $5 and a bag of weed in the parking lot prior to the game. And it also doesn't help that your stadium is so big that opposing team fans can buy tickets for $3. Oh, and that your owner has an agreement with stub hub with probably 20,000 of the tickets. Oh, and that we suck year after year...

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of thuggery at Fedex. Did you all hear that a 59 yo man stabbed a 23 yo guy in the chest during an altercation in the parking lot after the game? Injuries weren't life threatening but why does a man of nearly 60 yrs bring a knife to a football game?

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 2, 2007 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Now Coach John T show is talking about JLC article. Is every show talking about it? Damn maybe I do need to make a drive down and cover our boy back. lol

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I still think the glass is half full not half empty. On the field we have restablished a power running style and have a young developing QB capable of throwing to all parts of the field ( not just short and left )defenses will have to respect that and play us without stacking the box.Portis/Betts is a nice problem to have. I think they can not only coexist but flourish next year because neither is a selfish player. Both will get plenty of opportunities. It is a QB league and if you havea good one, along with a good offenseive line and running game (which we have) certaintly in the NFC you can compete for a playoff spot. Get better upfront on D a pass rushing DE is the top priority, remember it is qb league, creating havoc with your front four creates more turnovers opportunities and game changing plays. In most NFL games it comes down a handful of game changing plays you either make or give up that spells win or loss. Our team doesn't turn it over much so any marginal improvement from the Worst amount of turnovers ever created in history has to be the diference in three or four games.

Posted by: Old School | January 2, 2007 3:12 PM | Report abuse

>>> "is FedEx becoming a bit thuggish"

I hit about 8 NFL stadiums this year and it's not jut FedEx. Maybe it's because I'm old and fat now and notice such things more, but the level of drunkeness at games is horrible. I'm all for people getting drunk and having fun, but not in front of children and not in a belligerent manner.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 3:13 PM | Report abuse

jm220- It's all anybody on sports-talk can talk about, because our boy is the only real journalist (oops, you are too HB) who dives in and really covers the team...not a mouthpiece for them like george michael.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 2, 2007 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Diddy,

I agree... it's definitely not just FedEx. But I know it can't help when anyone can get a ticket for free outside the gates.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Definitely love JLC/HowBry and 980's coverage of the Skins. But those 2 groups better watch out or Snyder will strip them of their access to tickets, Coach Gibbs interviews, etc....

OH WAIT......

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Hey JLC is going to be on 980 in a few

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 3:21 PM | Report abuse

JLC next on John T

Posted by: calebt17 | January 2, 2007 3:21 PM | Report abuse

JLC next on John T

Posted by: calebt17 | January 2, 2007 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Cool!

For those listening on the Internets:
http://www.sportstalk980.com/main.html

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry. Did I hear JLaC will be on the JT Show? I wasn't listening too carefully????

Posted by: 4th Floor | January 2, 2007 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Could someone please para-phrase for those of us whom cannot access this?

Thanks very much.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | January 2, 2007 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Joe Gibbs and co need to work smarter not harder. They keep making the same ridiculous mistakes over and over. Working harder isn't working for them.

Posted by: Bart | January 2, 2007 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I honestly don't see how they can afford to do what they do every year. Players will have to restructure and I don't see that happening anymore since it doesn't work and "core" players get forced out.

Jason, did you actually approach players and get quotes? It's hard for me to believe that players would actually be forthcoming with reporters.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Cmoney, 2:20 pm: "Cerrato is basically the guy who goes to Kinko's to put together pretty looking dossiers on free agents and college players."

AWESOME, CMONEY!!!

I formally propose that Vinny be known as 'Kinkos' on this blog.

btw, super-conscientious reader of the blog, lifelong skins fan back to the over-the-hill-gang--Chris Hanburger, Pardee, plus of course Ken Houston, Charley Taylor and Larry Brown. What a team back then! Now, first post.

I'm hoping we'll maintain the blog during the off-season. I promise to read my guts out.

Posted by: makevil | January 2, 2007 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Cmoney, 2:20 pm: "Cerrato is basically the guy who goes to Kinko's to put together pretty looking dossiers on free agents and college players."

AWESOME, CMONEY!!!

I formally propose that Vinny be known as 'Kinkos' on this blog.

btw, super-conscientious reader of the blog, lifelong skins fan back to the over-the-hill-gang--Chris Hanburger, Pardee, plus of course Ken Houston, Charley Taylor and Larry Brown. What a team back then! Now, first post.

I'm hoping we'll maintain the blog during the off-season. I promise to read my guts out.

Posted by: makevil | January 2, 2007 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Damn Doc just called out Llyodd. Now JLC is starting to call him out.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Damn Doc just called out Llyodd. Now JLC is starting to call him out.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 3:38 PM | Report abuse

He does not sound like he like Dan Snyder to me......

Nothing new. Will recap in a sec.

Posted by: 4th | January 2, 2007 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Damn JLC is coming hard on Coach John T show. Yeah he better keep his head up at the park for the Dan now. He also said he sat down and talked with Coach Joe about the team and the Portis trade. And how no one in the league would have made that trade. Coach Joe response was that everyone is wrong.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Personally, I've had enough of the badmouthing of the team....it's gone too far and has become too DRAMATIC. Obviously, it gives the sports reporters something to talk about and they love to talk about bad stuff rather than good. Wonder what the hell they will talk about 3 weeks from now when this dies down. Really, really tired of hearing about the Champ Bailey trade - he flippin' wanted to leave!

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

jm220 --

What did he say about 23 Catches? I got on late.

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I'm with you on the Champ trade. Its water under the bridge at this point. Its been water under the bridge for a couple of years now. People need to move on, there is not ONE thing that can be done at this point in time.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | January 2, 2007 3:48 PM | Report abuse

To recap. Nothing.

JLaC talks to everyone from the Janitor to the Mailman to get a feel of the Redskins. So he basically qouted anyone any everyone for his article, including the night cleaning people........

JLaC also dosen't like they're GM setup, or speaking as another GM, he dosen't. He feels Snyder should come out and say something. But Gibbs is his bullet proof vest. He dosen't see too much happening in the offseason. Just one or 2 big moves. MAybe trade down in the draft to get more players. That's about it....

Posted by: 4th | January 2, 2007 3:48 PM | Report abuse

That Boise State/Oklahoma game was the most exciting thing I've seen in years.

Anybody think that we could/should deal our 6th overall pick for a late 1st round and second (third?) round pick (not sure what the "point value" of a 6th overall pick is, but it's got to be high)? I guess if there is an awesome guy on the DL available, we should grab him, but it seems like the Skins need a lot of help on the defense rather than being "one player away".

Posted by: straight outta hampton | January 2, 2007 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I think he was just using the Bailey trade as an example of just how clueless Coach Joe appears to be. We got raped on the deal and he thinks it was the best move EVER. We go 5-11 and he still thinks "we're going about it the right way UP HERE". We lose game after game and Gibby proclaims "how proud he is". He has clearly lost his mind.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the re-caps guys. I like the idea of trading back for more picks. However this will only work if G-Williams actually plays the guys we draft.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | January 2, 2007 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Funniest thing from the broadcast was from Walker if you knew Lloyd was going to be a headache why don't you go get TO he at least catches TD's.

Posted by: calebt17 | January 2, 2007 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Game worn Arch jersey $999. WTF!! This got to be a joke.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Who cares about the Redskins anyway? DC United soccer starts up soon. Go Black and Red!!!!

Posted by: "Hollywood" Hulk Hogan | January 2, 2007 3:55 PM | Report abuse

hampton,

agree on both points.

Boise St. game was unreal.... 2nd greatest ending ever. Santana #1

I also think we need to trade down. A late first and a 2nd should produce 2 starters, instead of just 1. Hell, I might even trade down, get a late first and a second, then trade down again and get 3 first day picks.

But that's not the way the Skins do things. Like Doc just said, there's no party at FedEx with a few 2nd round picks. To them, #6 is way too sexy to give up.... money and notaritity over wins. Terrible way to run a football team.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I'd trade down twice. 6th to around 11th...probably gain a 2nd or 3rd rounder. then trade again down to 17th-ish, and get another 2nd or 3rd rounder. They need yound defenders, and they need depth. Both easily found in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 2, 2007 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Here's where you can get the jersey: http://gameexclusives.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22

They have a Brunell jersey for $1199, Carter and Griffin $749 and Cooley for $1999.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 2, 2007 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Really, really tired of hearing about the Champ Bailey trade - he flippin' wanted to leave!

I think reflecting upon the Champ Bailey trade is still appropriate, because to this day it has had an impact on the Redksins. Yes it's true he wanted to leave, BUT only after the redskins were lowballing him on his contract extension. (They ended up giving Portis essentially the same amount Champ was asking for). The fact is that we gave up too much for Portis. Don't get me wrong, Portis is a very good running back and he really helped carry the team in our playoff run last year, but giving up a Shutdown corner and a second round pick for a running back is ridiculous. Corners like that don't come around very often and Portis isn't exactly LaDainian Tomlinson. Imagine if we had Champ and Shawn Springs starting opposite of each other. This is just one example of why we need a General Manager handling personnel moves.

Posted by: ktron | January 2, 2007 4:01 PM | Report abuse

4-12,

looks we're on the same page. But Greg from Boston has a good point. The Skins don't play rookies until they're 47 years old. obviously Reggie Bush, Colston, Vince Young, etc... hell even Golston, those are all flukes. Rookies and 2nd year QB's should never play until the team is 4-9 and out of the playoff race.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Lisa, J-La mentioned the Bailey trade in a thread about a month ago. I recall (as you did) that Bailey wanted to go and said so publicly. Hence, the Skins got what they could for him which landed them a franchise back -- one that could end up being the most productive Redskins back of all time.

Jason responded to my point and said that he had heard it differently. That Bailey wanted to come back but wouldn't take less money just to stay in DC. Jason's got the sources, so I defer to him.

All that said, the kick between the legs is that we sent a 2ND ROUNDER in addition to one of the best corners in the NFL. Shanahan needs to go to confession after that kind of thievery. Snyder just needs to go to negotiation school.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 2, 2007 4:02 PM | Report abuse

What does one do with a $1000 game-worn jersey? I assume they wash it before they give it to you?

I wonder if I could get a game-worn "Mr." Snyder tie.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Though, I suppose in Archuleta's case, the don't need to wash it, huh?

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 4:04 PM | Report abuse

RB/4th, even if you do that and pick up some key players for the D. Do you really think double G is going to play them? Hell no he will go with his they don't know the system and all that bs as he did with RockyMac. Damn now I am angry again. lol

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 4:05 PM | Report abuse

For those interested in what the Skins could get by trading down from #6, here is a link to the widely used draft pick trade value chart: http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Insider/2004/TradeValue.htm#Chart

Basically, the #6 pick is worth 2 low 1st rounders, or a mid-1st and a high-2nd. One option might be a trade with the Patriots for their two 1st rounders (approx picks 22 and 28). But the Pats are too smart for that.

In a perfect world, Quinn or Peterson falls to 6 and a team like the Panthers or Packers want to overpay to move up and we can get the best available defenders/OL with the picks we acquire.

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs with Riggo now.........

Posted by: 4th | January 2, 2007 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Portis and Bailey didn't get the same money, Ktron. Bailey got a deal roughly for 67 million. Portis got one for in the 50's. However I agree that we should not have sent the 2nd round pick.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | January 2, 2007 4:09 PM | Report abuse

The fact is: ALL teams have problems! In fact, all organizations have problems (the place I work for example). Look at the Ravens last season: everyone is talking about how great their organization is - hell, Ray Lewis wanted to leave before the season began, he was not talking to Billick and Billick's job was on the line. San Diego's organization was supposedly so bad that LBM would not go there. Look at AZ, Cleveland, Oakland, Dallas (yes, Dallas), NY Giants. Bulger with the Rams was calling players out several weeks ago. Philly was in a shambles last season.

The fact is that NO ONE knows what our team or record will be like next season no matter what happens with free agency, the draft, etc. The Skins coaches do not know, the fans do not know, and reporters sure as hell do not know. Many of the teams in the playoffs last season did not make it this year and many who were not there last season are in the playoffs now. Only God knows and he is not a radio reporter.

I'm ready to check out from this insanity.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 4:09 PM | Report abuse

On Jan 12, Scouts. Inc/ESPN will analyze why the team(s) in the NFC east didn't make the playoffs

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=williamson_matt&id=2713838&CMP=ILC-INHEAD

the skins should feel lucky to have an entire espn.com article written about them.

Posted by: Amused | January 2, 2007 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Lisa,

You keep bringing up the Ravens but they are clearly up there with NE, Pitt, Philly, etc on how to run a successful NFL franchise. Look at their drafts, look at their off-season pick ups, look at the guys they let go who never amount to crap, look back to their record vs. the Skins record since 2000... and the negativity and chaos swirling around their team last year was NOTHING like it is with this team this year.

You also mentioned Arizona, Cleveland, Oakland... and you're right. We are now in their class... and that is sad.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Good to know that I am super smart. And since I am kick double G ass out. He is talking about JLC again. It seems that he is upset about the Betts comment.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs say he has no problem outside of indirect statements made related to him and a player (i.e. Cartwright) related to the articles....

Posted by: 4th Floor | January 2, 2007 4:19 PM | Report abuse

riggo asking Gibbs some good questions. these typically get archived, worth listening to.

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 4:22 PM | Report abuse

did I just hera Boofer calling in to say the redskins suck to JJG on his show?

did anyone else get that?

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Portis and Bailey didn't get the same money, Ktron. Bailey got a deal roughly for 67 million. Portis got one for in the 50's. However I agree that we should not have sent the 2nd round pick.

My mistake. Bailey got a 63 million dollar deal. Portis a 50.5 million dollar deal. That's a pretty big difference.

Still a bad trade in hindsight though. If you've watched any of the Broncos games this season, you still see teams avoiding his side of the field like they were gonna get Chlamydia from even thinking about throwing his way. The Redskins could've kept him if they really wanted to, especially since they seem to throw multi-million dollar deals to anyone.

Posted by: ktron | January 2, 2007 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Agreed that its a bad trade, but Champ the last few years NEVER played like that for us. Amani Toomer, used to abuse him on a regular basis.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | January 2, 2007 4:29 PM | Report abuse

ktron: check a few posts ago, we basically beat the isht out of this topic. . .

good data on the salaries though, didn't realize at the time that Champ got $67M, big difference. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 4:30 PM | Report abuse

RickyBobby,

I ALSO mentioned Dallas, St. Louis, Philly. And I forgot to mention the Almighty Pats who had such a hard time with Deion Branch.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I heard that too........

Posted by: 4th | January 2, 2007 4:31 PM | Report abuse

I heard the Boofer caller. What was funny was Riggo ask Coach Joe if he hung up on him. LMAO classic. If Comcast wants someone to do the reporting it should be Riggo.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 4:34 PM | Report abuse

My 2 cents is its all about the qb. We have become a national laughing stock based on our instability at this position since ryp back in 1994.Our inabilty to draft one shuler/ramsey or keep one Green/Johnson or play the wrong one MB, Has us grasping at quick fixes all over the place because we don't have the most important on field position solidified.I hope that stops with jc. I live in New England and I saw it happen as soon as brady got a chance when drew got hurt. Without this one piece to the puzzle New Englands dynasty and probbally the stabilty of the franchise is totally different. I am not saying jc is tom b. but he is the best prospect we have had in like 16 yrs. The rest can be fixed.

Posted by: Old School | January 2, 2007 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs told me I am supersmart!!

That's why I don't believe most of the articles. Not even Jason Campbell is Super Smart yet!

Posted by: 4th Floor | January 2, 2007 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I don't know how you keep picking on Philly. Yes, they had a down year last year, but they've now won the division, what, 4 out of the last 5 years... they went to the NFC Championship game 4 straight seasons, and a Super Bowl. They treat their fans to home playoff games year after year.

And St. Louis... they won a Super Bowl in the late 90's and went to another one in 2001, I believe. They also had a good team in '03 and lost to Carolina in double OT in a home playoff game.

We have been losers 15 of the last 17 years. 1 home playoff game. ONE!!!! Our fans have only been able to enjoy 1 home wild card game in 17 freaking years. Philly has had about 10 over the past 5 years... and they'll have another one this weekend. The Rams have given St. Louis a super bowl win, another super bowl appearance, and other home playoff games within the past 5 years or so. We've barely done jack since I was in middle school... now all of sudden I'm 28 and it's the same old story.

Dallas hasn't won a playoff game in 10 years, so they're probably closer to where we are... but not when you start examining Dallas' young players they've built through the draft and their ridiculous amount of cap room. I hate to say it, but the future looks a lot more promising there.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 4:41 PM | Report abuse

You keep bringing up the Ravens but they are clearly up there . . . on how to run a successful NFL franchise. Look at their drafts, look at their off-season pick ups, look at the guys they let go who never amount to crap . . .

You also mentioned Arizona, Cleveland, Oakland... and you're right. We are now in their class... and that is sad.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 04:16 PM

Baltimore has had a strong independent GM for years, and I am sure there have been plenty of arguments with Billick about getting/keeping players. But the Ravens do seem to do it consistently better than the Skins. Many of their best defensive players came through high picks in the draft, so it is hard to argue with their success using that method.

But the Ravens have made personnel errors as well: letting Priest Holmes leave as a UFA; drafting Kyle Boller high and handing the starting QB job to him; etc. They also "lucked" out by NOT getting T.O., although tyey tried very hard to land him. On the other hand, they happened to be in the right place at the right time when Steve McNair came available. It just goes to show that every organization can and will make mistakes, and also occasionally gets lucky.

If nothing else, the teams that seem to make the fewest personnel errors and get "lucky" most often are those organizations with a strong GM/personnel side. Sadly, the Redskins are not currently one of those teams. They are definitely in the same pack with Cleveland and Arizona. (Oakland along with Detroit, however, are in a league of their own.)

I still think Grilliams should be interviewing for the Arizona Head Coach position this week. He will be a PERFECT fit!!!


Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 2, 2007 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Old School,

Last night I was (as always) watching the NFL Network and Jamie Dukes said the same thing you did - an NFL team's success is all about the QB. Dukes said if you can get a good QB you can build a winning team.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 4:43 PM | Report abuse

JLC,

It's been 21 weeks, can you please send me my prize for winning the redskins song contest? Seriously bro.

You have my email address, but if not, let me know on here if you need my info again.

Barno

Posted by: Barno | January 2, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

JLC,

It's been 21 weeks, can you please send me my prize for winning the redskins song contest? Seriously bro.

You have my email address, but if not, let me know on here if you need my info again.

Barno

Posted by: Barno | January 2, 2007 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Lisa, here are a few positives going into the offseason:

1. We didn't end on a winning streak. It's wierd, but a meaningless push at the end would have masked everything that needs to be fixed. The coaches should get a clear view of what needs improvement/upgrading.

2. We have a high 1st rounder. Provided we don't trade it for Nate Clements, that should yield an impact player.

3. The QB of the future is becoming the QB of the present. Mediocre teams can do very well with a top-notch QB. Campbell might be a good one.

4. Our head coach isn't flirting with Alabama or Univ. of Washington. Gibbs is committed - not every team can say that.

5. Joe Bugel. The guy took a backseat to Weird Al but his influence has become more apparent.

6. Defenses can turn around quickly. Grilliams is an arrogant SOB, but he has a track record of success.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 2, 2007 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Joe,

Is Clements a free agent? If we trade our pick to Buffalo, then sign him to a 50 million dollar deal that no other team would have matched in free agency anyway (ala Brunell), I am seriously done with this team.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Another great article today. I like "The Lost Season" title it's like Lennon's Lost Weekend.

4th and 4-12 glad to have you back.

Okay I'm gonna put the needle on the broken record. My repeated thoughts for off season:
1. Williams has got to go and soon.

2. Trade 6th pick for lower picks and focus on defense LB and secondary first and some o-liners next.

3. Declare Portis the starter next season. Force Betts to walk around with a ball and tell everyone from players to cleaning people to go after it anytime anywhere.

4. If you pursue an FA make it 1-2 at most and make them defensive players.

5. Dump BLloyd. He's bad blood and we don't need him.

6. Keep Arch - maybe he sucks but he got treated like a child so we should at least treat him as an $8 million dollar adult. If there is a new d-coord then who knows what can happen.

7. Hire a GM and tell Vinny to wait by the phone at Kinkos.

The record of the last 15 years is horrible. If you want further depression look at the graphic on WaPo called "Running Commentary" and look at yards allowed, most games the d gave up over 300 yards.

I don't even pretend to think about an SB at this point but what I want is a team that is going to be competitive every game and every season. I know I watch the Skins now and everytime we do something good I just sit with that pit in my stomach waiting for us to eff it up. We alomst always do. I'm sick of it. I'm happy for 9-7, 8-8, 10-6 for a few seasons knowing what we're headed towards.

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 4:55 PM | Report abuse

RickyBobby,

I was not comparing those teams in reference to playoff status so much as "drama/organizational turmoil" status. And I forget to mention Cincinnati - 8 players arrested this season - and Chris Henry arrested 3-4 times alone.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 4:56 PM | Report abuse

RB- Clements is a free agent, so we can't trade our 1st rounder for him, as much as some in the front office might like to give it away just for fun anyway!

Posted by: 4-12 | January 2, 2007 4:56 PM | Report abuse

I've been repeating the same mistakes my entire life. I'm a failure.

Posted by: Dan Shanoff | January 2, 2007 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Re: QB is everything --

I absolutely agree. The consistently good teams (Indy, Pats, Eagles, Seattle, etc) have the best QBs in the league. If JC can develop into the consistently good QB that we hope he is, the Skins will have more wins than losses during his career.

Re: the Ravens --

I watched their game last week....that defense is amazing. Just a completely different mentality than the Skins' D (even the 2004-05 SKins D) -- they expect to not only get turnovers, but they expect to score. With the bye week giving Ray, Trevor, and the other vets on that D much needed rest, they will be very hard to beat. Would love to see a Patriots-Ravens matchup. Brady could spread that D out. Would be fun.

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 5:01 PM | Report abuse

RB, yep, he'll be a free agent on March 1. The rumor is that if he asks for Champ Bailey money, the Bills will let him walk. Or they could franchise him and try to work a trade.

The Bills are about $40M under the cap, but will probably also have to work out a new contract with McGahee. They have the #12 pick in the draft.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 2, 2007 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Lisa,

I agree that there have been worse problems on other teams. I mean, Darrent Williams is dead.

I guess it's just more frustrating because EVERYONE learns to tolerate more of the off-the field stuff when your team is winning... and we obviously are NOT.

I'm sure the off-the-field stuff in Cincy is hotter on the burner because they failed to make the playoffs.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Lisa:

here, here!

some mistakes are worse than others. . .

The ones of the QB variety really, really kill franchises. For starters it typically takes several years to figure out you made a mistake (or risk pulling the plug too early) at which point you have to hope someone like mcnair is available. Otherwise you wind up with Kurt Warner or John Kitna or shudder, Jeff George. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 5:04 PM | Report abuse

If you look at teams that have had consistency in the league it's those who don't get high on speed in March and then go out and spend on FAs.

Philly has been outstanding - last year was a disaster for a number of reasons TO being the primary but it was an exception. Why? Because Reid does not light his pants on fire every time something goes right or wrong.
Indy - consistent although with a fairly lousy d.
NE - consistent and they dump players they see as problems
Seattle - oh look what happened when Holmgren gave up GM they slowly built and built and built and low and behold they've had success - even if division change helped.
STL - had consistency for a long time and stuck with their players
TB - Dungy built that team from the ground up and Gruden just came in and got the credit and now they're not so good
Pitt - consistency consistency even through Kordell experiment
And guess who is up and coming - SF - why because a few years ago they finally figured out that throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem. Eat the cap hits and start over.
Finally I may eat my words on this one but you know if Arizona gets a solid HC I think they may turn it around although talk about an owner from hell.

Anyway I know next year is a rebuilding year and I'm going to put up a big sign that says that so I don't drink too much Kool Aid in the offseason. Do you think Fat Head sells something like that?

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 5:06 PM | Report abuse

One thing is certain: we are all very opinionated and we all have different opinions. No one agrees on the way to fix things although there are some commonalities.

I do believe one thing - all this negative reporting will run our players away and others will not want to sign with us. Guess that will make everyone really happy (except me).

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Re good QB post: What would be preferrable a "winning team" like the Colts OR some mediocrity followed by couple yrs of success ending in super win followed by more mediocrity.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 2, 2007 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Off field troubles are definitely tolerated more when teams are winning. On that thread, Grim Reaper needs to go back to thugging this coming off-season. He seems to have lost his edge being such a model citizen this past year.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 2, 2007 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Players won't sign because of negative reporting? You can't be serious.

Posted by: Wow | January 2, 2007 5:12 PM | Report abuse

AMEN, CP! You go guy!!!!! If anyone is listening to 980, Clinton is telling it like it is!

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 5:13 PM | Report abuse

I am looking to see Campbell in the offense next year with CP, Moss, and ARE. There Lisa something positive.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 5:13 PM | Report abuse

I'll take a Superbowl win over respectability. the end goal of winning consistently is to win it all. If you don't do that you've failed. There are 12 teams that go to the playoffs every year, that's 4 short of half of the teams. making the playoffs doesn't cut it. Winningplayoff games is a start, but if you don't win the SB it's all for naught. . .

just ask the folks in Buffalo, Philly and Denver (pre-SB wins) what they would prefer. methinks that they would trade ALL of their winning seasons for just 1 lombardi trophy. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Lisa - I don't know if it will run players off because among other things they'll get taken to the Scrooge McDuck room and dive into the gold and swim around.

And maybe just maybe having some marquee players turn us down may be a good thing. It may be an additional wake-up call and it may mean we sign some unknowns who come in and play hard to prove themselves.

I don't know anymore. Yeah we all do have strong opinions but that's one of the reasons I love our fans and this blog.

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 5:14 PM | Report abuse

8K - yeah I'd love a Lombardi too but I don't want to be the 1997(?) Florida Marlins.

Right now I'll take a couple of winning seasons, some playoff appearances, a shot at the division and then bring the SB.

What did CP say on the radio?

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Another positive: next year can't be nearly as dissapointing as this one. I was honestly fooled this year. At least we'll be expecting the suck and maybe...just maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 2, 2007 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Lisa you are so right. I am listening to CP now. Now I really have a problem with a person that not standing up. After going to CP and telling him how they feel. He needs to smack they punk a** in the back of the head. Damn I might have to go and get a CP jersey now. He is my type of player. Speak your mind and believe in yourself. Allow no one to punk you.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Lisa, although I don't know if jamie Dukes is exactly the schwam. Just so you guys don't think i am a blind optimist I know we have fo problems when it comes to evaluating or over valuing talent. The other problem is joe's fatal flaw (loyalty) what makes him a great coach also hurts him as a coach and as defacto GM. He moves far to slowly once he recognizes a problem, in personel brunell/ hall examples and on the field ie redskin football, why did it take more than half a season to get back to what he knows works. Loyalty to saunders confidence "in what we do up here works". I think Joe knows the fo needs fixing I just hope he does it this year, but based what i have seen my guess is Vinny goes next year.

Posted by: Old School | January 2, 2007 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Hey can those of us in the hinterlands get a summary of what CP said?
Please. We'll be your BFFs!

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Well it is true. Llyod is a jackass. CP said he was the biggest fan of his. But he push everyone away including him. Keep Arch and cut Llyod ass.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 5:25 PM | Report abuse

yea...what did SE Jerome have to say?

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 2, 2007 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Did CP just say Saunders and Gibbs don't talk?

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 5:26 PM | Report abuse

http://www.sportstalk980.com/cc-common/streaming_new/index.html?refreshed=yes

sfskin that is the link to 980. They will replay the interview at 6pm

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

The Marlins were also the 2003 WS champs after beating the high priced NY Stankees

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 2, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

jm220- heard that too. take the cap hit NOW and get rid of Lloyd. Keep Arch. At least his teammates like him and he personal protects his guts out!

Posted by: 4-12 | January 2, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

CP hates Saunders.

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

It will be good for this team to spend some time under the radar.

No matter what magic spells Snyder casts by way of salary cap fuzzy math, we don't seem to have too much flexibility to go on a free agent spending spree. And we certainly aren't going on a marquee coach spending spree. And I have to guess we'll stay at #6 in the draft and throw all our expectations onto the shoulders of some 22-year old dude. But that's it. Quiet, small, just a few moves.

So we'll trudge towards September keeping a relatively low profile. No prime time games. No hype. Nobody even mentions the freakin' Super Bowl during training camp.

Best thing that could happen to this team is to spend some time not getting sunshine blown up its jock strap. Deal with the reality, make it work with who we have, shut the hell up and get it done in '07.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 2, 2007 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Yes CP just said that when it comes to running plays he talk with Coach Joe. When it comes to pass plays him and Saunders don't talk. Damn JLC got to do an interview with CP.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 5:31 PM | Report abuse

CP is basically saying that Gibbs has an open door policy but that many players are scared to go talk with him about their issues. He thinks players talking to the media about negative things without giving their name(s) is crap. He also said that he called the Skins organization many times about keeping Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce. He also said that he was one of Lloyd's biggest fans and wanted them to bring him here but that Lloyd has alienated players.

Clinton obviously was not in favor of bringing in Saunders. He is really laying it on the line.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I couldn't agree more Nate but it's a scary thought when you think about some of the dudes that we have- Holdman, Wright, etc.

something needs to be done for this defense

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 2, 2007 5:34 PM | Report abuse

if saunders and gibbs don't talk...it makes cutting the oc easy...bring in russ grimm

Posted by: cosmofla | January 2, 2007 5:34 PM | Report abuse

if saunders and gibbs don't talk...it makes cutting the oc easy...bring in russ grimm

Posted by: cosmofla | January 2, 2007 5:35 PM | Report abuse

I couldn't agree more Nate but it's a scary thought when you think about some of the dudes that we have- Holdman, Wright, etc.

something needs to be done for this defense

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 2, 2007 5:35 PM | Report abuse

I couldn't agree more Nate but it's a scary thought when you think about some of the dudes that we have- Holdman, Wright, etc.

something needs to be done for this defense

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 2, 2007 5:36 PM | Report abuse

If a choice needs to be made between CP and Saunders, I'm choosing CP.

CP clearly believes in Gibbs and wants Gibbs to take control of the entire offense.

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 5:36 PM | Report abuse

sf,

not suggesting that, especially b/c we already have 3 of those (all of which I enjoyed thoroughly).

I agree with you, that you probably need to get to respectabilty before you can win it all again. However I don't think that is all that we strive for. My concern is that we get to a point where the skins recapture the knowledge of how to win that has been lost over the last 15 years. Prior to Joe Gibbs arrival, the only similarity between this organization and the one that won the lombardi trophies is the name. that's it.

For those of you in your 20's and early 30's, I think you would feel much differently about this if you had lived through mediocrity and then through having high expectations every year and actually winnin it all multiple times. So I totally understand the dissatisfaction.

If all I had to fall back on were these last 15 years I would be way more bitter.

This is exactly why we need to get on a track that is, above all, sustainable. I don't want another 15 years like the last 15 years after Gibbs leaves (which will happen). . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 5:36 PM | Report abuse

At least we aren't lions fans since they are keeping Millen for his 7th season.

Posted by: calebt17 | January 2, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

yikes...sorry for the triple post. My connection got effed up.

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 2, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

CP said that he pulled himself out because he was hurt. He also thank Doc for pointing out that when he was in they had him going side to side and not down hill. Which he said he was never a side to side runner. That when Campbell and Betts started they start doing the down hill running. Damn he is really coming with it.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

He said the "core redskins" were cartwright, thrash and taylor.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 2, 2007 5:41 PM | Report abuse

One note on Grimm, for all of us who love thinking about him coming in here as HC someday...

We'd better hope that when the Steelers job comes open, Grimm is NOT hired, because that franchise's track record indicates that Steelers head coaches stick around a very long time.

On the other hand, those of us who are Grimm fans would be happy for him to land that great job instead of coming to work for Mr. Snyder.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 2, 2007 5:42 PM | Report abuse

heck of an interview. hopefully they podcast it so I can listen again to digest fully.

CP is a man. I hope Gibbs listens to what he has to say and makes the difficult, uncomfortable decisions that need to be made to turn this thing around.

Posted by: CMoney | January 2, 2007 5:44 PM | Report abuse

let's get one thing straight...cp is clearly a better running back than lb. lb maybe fits gibbs style better because of his size, but he has an undeniable penchant for putting the ball on the ground at critical times. in my opinion cp is one of the top five backs in the league and capable of turning a game around any time he touches the ball. he has more heart than anyone on the team and is fearless. we cannot afford to underestimate his importance as a player and leader. i wonder how the players feel about the two backs?

Posted by: cosmofla | January 2, 2007 5:45 PM | Report abuse

I just want to be in the hunt every December for now. Tired of our season being realisticly over at Thanksgiving unless we win 6 straight and like 5 other teams lose 5 of 6. Its the thrill of the chase where every game really means something and you need to watch like 3 or 4 other games because you need team x to beat y.That is what it is all about. Then when that gets old you want to win it all

Posted by: Old School | January 2, 2007 5:45 PM | Report abuse

sf: you can usually get an mp3 of the CP segment on the 980 website. probably not for another day or so though. I wll be looking or it as i missed much of the discussion today. . .

also thinking about changing my moniker to skisfan@8KaboveMSL, at least until after easter as, from what I hear, the snow is very good so far this year. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the summaries peeploggers and for the 6pm replay heads up jm.

8K - I think we're both basically coming to the same conclusion. I started as an aware fan right when Gibbs 1.0 came in. I knew we weren't always going to be kings of the hill and so I was ready for the bust after the boom but this has been a long bust and you and a lot of others have talked about the mentality of winning vs. losing. So yeah we need some momentum and some winning to get back to the winning mentality and then I'll clamor for an SB.

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 5:47 PM | Report abuse

"let's get one thing straight...cp is clearly a better running back than lb."

Is there really a dispute about this? It's not even arguable if you ask me.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 2, 2007 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Its venting time at Redskins' PArk!!!

You have to take these articles into prospective. Don't trust them 100%. Hopefully CP says the same thing in the locker room that he said on the show................

Posted by: 4th | January 2, 2007 5:51 PM | Report abuse

RB, yep, he'll be a free agent on March 1. The rumor is that if he asks for Champ Bailey money, the Bills will let him walk. Or they could franchise him and try to work a trade.

The Bills are about $40M under the cap, but will probably also have to work out a new contract with McGahee. They have the #12 pick in the draft.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 2, 2007 05:01 PM

Well, there is the Redskins' answer!!!

1) Get Buffalo to franchise Clements.

2) Swap Clements and the #12 pick to the Skins for the #6 pick. Throw Grilliams in with the deal so Buffalo can re-fix their defense.

3) Pay Clements whatever Champ is making.

Many problems solved at once.

Oh, I forgot - the Redskins don't have a GM who could conceptualize and then pull off his deal.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 2, 2007 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Skins pick sixth in the draft. It can be argued that, given the season was a shambles anyway, winning that coin flip over the Jags and the fluke punt block v. Dallas amounted to BAD luck, keeping the team from picking third...

Posted by: pigskin | January 2, 2007 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Denver got the better of the Portis trade, but it was not a bad trade. We got 1 high quality player who has been a high quality player. And is still young. Broncos got 1 top quality player who has been excellent and a 2nd rounder who has been productive. Did we give up too much? Yes but it is hardly a disaster. Plus we had a major hole at RB. You want bad? Try the Lloyd and Ramsey trades. GIve up something and get nothing.

Posted by: AL | January 2, 2007 5:55 PM | Report abuse

sf:

this bust period has lasted as long as my marriage. . .

Let's just say that I hope my marriage outlives this period!!!

Took my wife to a skins game for the first time since Fedex opened and we actualy had a good time, so hope springs eternal w/r to her getting into football someday. . .

You and Lisa should hook up and figure out a football marketing program to get more women into enjoying the sport. I hear there's a marketing guy in seatle who can also helo as he's looking for the next thing to do . . .

One suggestion is to make sure it is the guys/significant others who get billed for the service. . .

I think there are a few peeps on this blog who'd be willing to trade their season tiks in for a chance at getting the wife/significant other into enjoying the NFL and you two clearly seem qulified to provide some insight. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I totally ageee skinsfan. I would be way more frustrated and call for everyone's head if I hadn't seen the glory years really starting with George Allen and running throught to Gibbs I. That was a great twenty years.

I will say you can't have the inmates the show, they need to play and thats it the last thing we need is the players to dictate who we sign, who we keep. As crazy as that sounds with our current FO they need to be in control and not let CP or any one else be the GM.

Posted by: Old School | January 2, 2007 5:58 PM | Report abuse

AL- Or better yet, try the Lloyd and Duckett trades!

Posted by: 4-12 | January 2, 2007 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Espn insider has something about rumors that Springs may be "nearing the end of his time with the Redskins" not sure what to think about that.

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Old School,

I agree. I'm tired of meaningless games in December. Last year was too much fun.

I can't believe one of the most storied franchises in the history of sports can't even give it's fans meaningful football games down the stretch on a consistent basis.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 6:02 PM | Report abuse

See, I don't remember those days. The last time the Skins won the Super Bowl I was in middle school. That means all through high school, all through college, and all through my 5-6 years post-college, we've only had 1 home playoff game. That's ages 13-28, a lot of those being prime party ages, and all I have is 1 measly home playoff game. Man....

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 6:07 PM | Report abuse

CP also said that Clark was a "core Skins". Stayed until 9 at night watching the film. (even brought his son in so he could watch the film) Came in early in the morning. I can't wait until they replay that interview.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Ocho Ocho I like your trade idea. What does Buffalo need that they'll want the 6th for? Losman is coming into to his own maybe another WR or RB?

Not that we have anything to offer but would we be stupid enough to try and trade up in the draft?

8K - I'm not sure why there aren't more XX's who are such addicted fans like Lisa or Megskin or me. I will say that playing sports probably made a big difference in my fandom. Also I LOVE competition even if on the losing side. Thus generally a bigger fan of team sports than individual. I'm also a big ole sucker for fairy tale stories. Finally watching the human body in motion is quite delightful especially when it is at top level so I love to dance and to watch the dancing. That's why I think the greatest sport to watch (and play since I did) is women's lacrosse. It's poetry in motion and ballet on the field.

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like CP really lit it up on the radio. Do we think he was "let off the leash"? I know he is a stand-up guy and someone who'll speak his mind and probably knows he doesn't have much to worry about but it sounds like he covered it all.

Did he say anything about defense?

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Espn insider has something about rumors that Springs may be "nearing the end of his time with the Redskins" not sure what to think about that.

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 06:00 PM

SF_

I saw something else on that also, a day or two ago. It was related to Shawn's age and injury history compared to his salary cap number. If you determine his cost/game based on the actual number games he played this year, his salary is excessive compared to the best players at the position. (Apparently there is some magic formula that GM's use to determine a player's future value, based on cost/game played.) In any case, the numbers apparently don't look very good for Shawn.

Of course, none of that even takes into consideration how Shawn feels regarding his career (how much longer does he want to play, given the injury issue) and does he even want to continue to play for the Skins, especially with the current awful state of the defense. Lots of the best players want a chance to win a SB ring before they retire. It's doubtful that will happen for Shawn in D.C.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 2, 2007 6:13 PM | Report abuse

RB:

I hear you on the mediocrity and the overall cost of the fedex experience.

However, I gotta say that despite the expensive club seats and the $8 beers I had a pretty good time at the jints game. Specially as it basically went right down to the end. BTW - gotta thank that ref for the phantom PI call on da reap, otherwise we're picking 10-11th vs 6th.

I have to say that I was impressed to see everyone on their feet and screaming their guts out in a meaningless (for us) game. That was real heartwarming to see. Maybe it's that we hate the jints so much, maybe it's because everyone was drunk. Whatever the reason, it was fun to be a part of. RFK used to rock and I never thought that Fedex did, but I have to admit that has changed in the last year or so and that is definitely a positive in my mind. . .

amazing what a playoff win will do for you. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Portis said he did not know if Gibbs and Saunders talk because he is not in their offices. But he definitely liked what they had going on last season. He also said that Campbell needs to be turned loose to throw the deep ball. Campbell is being restrained so he will not make mistakes.

sfskin, Springs has a big contract and most likely it will need to be restructured for him to stay. I hope he does but he will probably want to test the market.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 6:18 PM | Report abuse

sfskin they are about to replay the CP interview.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 6:21 PM | Report abuse

One thing about Portis - I personally don't believe he would have been as forthcoming if he had played this season.

Kelli Johnson w/Comcast is doing an interview with Gibbs tonight and tomorrow night. Gonna check that out as well.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 6:21 PM | Report abuse

"Ocho Ocho I like your trade idea. What does Buffalo need that they'll want the 6th for? Losman is coming into to his own maybe another WR or RB?

Not that we have anything to offer but would we be stupid enough to try and trade up in the draft?"

Buffalo has a solid RB, but I believe they need a #1 WR, and also need help in the offensive and defensive lines. (Seems like most teams are always looking for the next Merriman, for example.) I don't really know if they would try to move up, but you don't know if you don't ask.

As for the Skins, there is no point to moving up, due to the high salary implications of a higher pick, but nothing seems to stop the Skins' stupidity on this issue. Danny needs to close his wallet this year and demand that they trade down for picks, if possible. We would be far better off if we could get a low 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for the #6 pick, even if that means dropping down in the draft several times. No picks = no depth.

There should be a few teams looking to move up this year, since there are relatively few high-quality QB's, CB,s and DE's this year. (I don't care what they say - I've seen Quinn of ND play several times - he reminds me of Heath Shuler.) But the preliminary view is that the draft will be deep for good players; i.e., players who can start as rookies and do a good job, rather than superstars who will be game-changers. So it might be the best kind of year to move down and pick up additional picks.

I am still skeptical about the Redskins ability to do the draft intelligently, however. Without a strong and independent GM, I can imagine the following headline:

"Gibbs trades all 2007 draft picks away for Shutdown Corner"

At that point, I will probably download the schedule for the upcoming season of Women's Lacrosse.


I'm outta here - have a good evening!

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 2, 2007 6:32 PM | Report abuse

One thing about Portis - I personally don't believe he would have been as forthcoming if he had played this season.

Lisa I disagree with you. I remember earlier in the year when he was playing. He was the same on Coach John T show.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Joe in Raleigh,

Are you the same Joe in Raleigh that is known as "Joe in Raleigh" that calls "850 The Buzz" radio sports station down here? I am originally from DC and the surrounding area, but came down to Raleigh 7 years ago and "Joe in Raleigh" has become one of the best known callers in the sports radio community here. So, I cannot help but wonder. ;)

As for off-season moves, a lot of people have covered it well. Though, I really think it would be wise to trade the #1 pick down and get 3-4 early to mid-rounders in return to bolster depth, especially on D and the OL.

I said over at ExtremeSkins during preseason that the two areas the Skins could least afford to have injuries was the O Line and secondary. Between Clark going to the Steelers, then Springs getting hurt in preseason and then Pearson getting hurt on the opening play, you knew things were going to be dicey, especially seeing that they have so little of a pass rush. I will say that we lucked out on the O Line, but depth there is still critical, seeing that the starting line is not getting any younger.

On the offensive philosophy front, I think it will be Gibbs' smash-mouth/throw deep approach that will carry the day. It worked for him in the past and should work in the future, as the O Line is built for it and the team has two stud backs. Actually, it really all goes back to the Lombardi offense of, as he called it, "grinding meat" and then going deep to keep defenses honest. Shula ran basically the same thing in the early 70's with Csonka, Kiick and Morris and Warfield. Noll did pretty much the same thing with Franco and Blier, Swann and Stallworth. If you have the horses, it will work just about everytime, in spite of Space Age passing games and Bear 46 blitz happy defenses.

I do hope that Gibbs sticks with it.

Posted by: NosferatusCoffin | January 2, 2007 6:36 PM | Report abuse

I've seen Quinn of ND play several times - he reminds me of Heath Shuler.)

Ocho-Ocho I agree on Quinn. When he played some of the better teams he didn't look that great. I hoping the Raiders don't pick him. But with my luck they will and he will suck.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 6:42 PM | Report abuse

w/r to draft

I would only move down if we cannot get a solid pass rushing DE at 6.

AMTTS/Gov/other draftniks out there - I love Laron Landry, but we need some serious help at MLB as well as depth at CB. . .Is there a reasonable scenario where we could trade down to middle of the first round, add a 2nd/3rd round pick and still get a pass rushing DE? Isn't that where Freeney was picked?

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 6:43 PM | Report abuse

clarification:

if we can't get a DE at 6, movin down to 11 and picking up Laron Landry is a possibility, I guess. However, if we trade down my guess is that we probably need to address our MLB spot before we add another safety. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 6:48 PM | Report abuse

hold on, isn't buffalo picking 11th? or did someone already suggest that . . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 6:50 PM | Report abuse

i just heard the whole CP interview. WOW! if any of you needed a named source to validate all the annonymous sources you got it in CP. He agreed/validated everything Jason wrote in his articles.

I can't see CP and Weird Al coexisting.

Posted by: dealer | January 2, 2007 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Jason was just on Comcast being interviewed by Kelli Johnson about the articles.

In Kelli's interview with Gibbs, she asked him if Portis would be traded. He said absolutely not...they love Clinton...he is their "bell cow."

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Lisa did JLC say the same things he said on 980?

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 7:11 PM | Report abuse

looking at kiper's big board and there are 2 highly ranked DEs

Gaines Adams - Clemson
Adam Carriker - Nebraska
Lemarr Woodley - Michigan
Quentin Moses - Georgia

Are those guys Pass rushers or similar to the guys we already have?

also LaronLandy is #6 on kiper's board. . .

maybe we can engineer a trade down and get Lamarr Woodley(kiper has him ranked 14) Adam Carriker (kiper ranks him #8) or Quentin Moses (kiper ranks him #23)? what would that get us?

who has a link to a points chart?

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 2, 2007 7:12 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Jason was saying the same things. Mike Wise (another WashPo reporter) was also on there. They both said that the Skins need to hire a GM or someone to be in control with a title to be named.

This thing is beginning to take on a Woodward/Bernstein effect...."All The Redskins Men"

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 7:16 PM | Report abuse

skinsfan@8KaboveMSL my vote is for Woodley. I say trade back and and pick up a 2nd or 3rd round pick as well. Get Woodley and pick up another player.

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 7:18 PM | Report abuse


Hey all -- I've missed a week of posts and blog chatter and speculation (blatter and blogulation?) so apologies if I've missed some great haikus, arguments, and killer lines by the usual suspects. Family holiday time followed by New Year's Eve recovery time will do that to a guy, even the Poet Bard!

I love you all! Happy New Year!

Posted by: HaikuMan | January 2, 2007 7:22 PM | Report abuse

In my never-ending goal to broaden the horizons of my fellow man, it should be noted that over on the Celebritology blog, Liz Kelly contemplated (albeit briefly) taking over Dan Froomkin's White House Briefing blog.

This got me thinking...if we can't get a Redskins Insider/DateLab crossover going, can we get Liz to come over here and dish on the goings on of our favorite 'Skins players? Or, better yet, have Jason go over there and blog about Britney Spears.

Speaking of which, I heard a great new porn star name: Britney Rears. Gotta love it.

Can you tell it's the offseason? I'm just trying to distract us from wonking out on the draft points value chart.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 7:34 PM | Report abuse

I also want to add that Death Cab for Cutie and James Blunt are horrible.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 7:35 PM | Report abuse

I also want to add that Death Cab for Cutie and James Blunt are horrible.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 07:35 PM

I don't know who James Blunt is, so he gets a pass for now.

I have heard Death Cab. (No comment.) Interestingly, they are sometimes billed as "Portland Oregon's Finest".

Finest what? Certainly can't be music, can it?. And if it is, what does that mean for the rest of music in Portland???

Perhaps we have inadvertantly discovered the reason that craft brewing and brew pubs are so popular there - drunk people aren't as picky about good music.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 2, 2007 8:22 PM | Report abuse

lisa, i need a favor. i don't watch much skins on comcast. my only news source is wapo and skins.com.

i was wondering how you know when they'll air something to do with skins? could you please give me a schedule so i could set my dvr? you'll be an enabler but this addict needs his fix bad.

thank you very much in advance!

i'm contemplating signing up for espn since they always get the scoop that's everything skins. and for kiper's draft board. actually i'm hoping you guys will provide us with that info?

Posted by: dealer | January 2, 2007 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Diddy, you are obviously a mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging philistine if you don't appreciate James Blunt! Kidding, but I don't really think they suck, it's just music for the fairer sex.

Now Coldplay sucks, and sorry so did/do The Eagles.

Posted by: SMACK | January 2, 2007 8:30 PM | Report abuse

This thing is beginning to take on a Woodward/Bernstein effect...."All The Redskins Men"

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 07:16 PM

Does that mean the anonymous source in the Friend article a few weeks ago should now be referred to as "Deep Jock"?

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 2, 2007 8:32 PM | Report abuse

James Blunt sings that "You're Beautiful" song that sounds like a constipated falsetto who is having his bits and pieces mauled by an angry cat.

Portland is a very, very, very weird city. I don't get anything about it.

The whole Northwest is full of passive-aggressive types (which, let me tell you, would drive ANY east coast person INSANE). Portland is not only passive-aggressive, but full of people with seemingly nothing to do. I remember smiling and asking someone in a restaurant, "How's it going?" At which point, they told me for something like fifteen minutes. And not a single bit of it was interesting.

But they have no sales tax and some pretty decent high end shopping, so that's a bonus.

They also have a pretty substantial population of very high young men standing on street corners.

And, I am going to strangle whoever bought Death Cab for Cutie on my iTunes AND stuck them in ALL of my playlists.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 8:32 PM | Report abuse

dealer,

You can usually find snippets of the Comcast sports stuff here: http://midatlantic.comcastsportsnet.com/video.asp?category=redskins

Posted by: JustMe | January 2, 2007 8:36 PM | Report abuse

And, dealer, welcome to the Strawberry Shortcake fan club :-)

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 8:40 PM | Report abuse

James Blunt sings that "You're Beautiful"

I like that song. P have I just ruined my image? lol

Posted by: jm220 | January 2, 2007 9:18 PM | Report abuse

dealer,

Comcast will most likely re-air the 6:30 pm progam tonight at 10:00. That show had Part 1 of Kelli's interview with Gibbs and then later an interview with both JLC and Mike Wise.

Part 2 of Kelli's interview with Gibbs will air tomorrow night at 6:30.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 9:18 PM | Report abuse

I'm in month three of a half-assed study of the Portland music scene -- trying to hit at least one live show a week, especially now that the Skins have prematurely given me back a four-hour chunk of weekend free time per week, making it much easier to bargain with Mrs. Nate as far as toddler care sharing -- and will keep you all posted.

I definitely don't get Death Cab's huge success. In any case, they are a National act now. The Decemberists are on the ascent as well but still very much in and of Portland. And they are good.

Diddy, are you being serious about Ms. Shortcake or just pulling our legs? I used to be her only advocate on the board, but I was just trying to encourage people to be less cruel in their criticism of her. You make it sound like she's sent you over the moon.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 2, 2007 9:24 PM | Report abuse

thank you justme and lisa.

diddy, i'm not only a member but also the president of SS fan club. :)

dr. 90210 is a guilty pleasure...i'm sleepy again...

btw, diddy, i took a daytime nap today. WoW! it refreshes your whole body! i do it again!

does post or espn have "signup for skins updates to cellphone" thingie?

Posted by: dealer | January 2, 2007 9:28 PM | Report abuse

I (heart) Strawberry Shortcake. :-)

Wow, the girl I'm "hanging out with" spent all day on the couch watching "Dr. 90210" on the TiVo. Strange fascination.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 9:33 PM | Report abuse

dealer, I think you can get RSS updates on 'Skins stuff from the Post.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 9:35 PM | Report abuse

As for the concern about Portland raised above, I will acknowledge that it's not for everyone. But Mrs. Nate and I undertook an exhaustive search and picked this fair city above all the others in this great land of ours (emigration to Canada being too complicated).

I've heard Portland leads the nation in per capita consumption of microbrews AND of Pabst Blue Ribbon. And it has an absurd amount of strip clubs for those interested in such things. Lots of fleece clothing, relatively high amounts of piercings, tats, and dreadlocks. Plenty of stoners and freaks, yes. Light but steady rain for 6-8 months straight, and then a glorious summer.

It's a small, post-industrial city with a lot of character, not unlike Baltimore. Good parks, good cafes, decent restaurants (we're hardly high-end people), numerous colleges, plenty of live music venues, a healthy light rail system, bridges crisscrossing the Willamette, and generally left-of-center politics. It has one big-league team (Blazers), AAA baseball in a downtown stadium, minor league hockey, soccer and lax, not to mention the state unis' Ducks and Beavers.

All right, that's more than anyone wanted to hear about Portland. We like it. We've decided to raise Nathan Jr. and his eventual siblings here.

(And given Portland's remove from greater DC, it bears noting that this blog is my lifeline to Redskin Nation.)

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 2, 2007 9:38 PM | Report abuse

dealer, Diddy, I mentioned waaaaay back that I met Kelli Johnson at a softball game in DC. She was playing for Comcast and I was playing for my old company in a media softball league.

(mediasoftball.net if you're interested in reading about this cool league. I think WashPo has two teams.)

Kelli J was super friendly, pretty good ball player, and as I recall she had a cute little dog. And she's cuter in person even than on the small screen. That's why I always rush to defend her from the heartless slander of some people up here on the board.

Happy to join you fellers in her fan club.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 2, 2007 9:42 PM | Report abuse

"Cute little dog", "Cuter in person", "Good ballplayer"...

...she's my SOUL MATE!

And we both hate Blueberry Muffin.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Ok....I'm going to start talking about Shawn Springs again or my lastest crush....Fran Charles with the NFL Network.
Fair is Fair.

Who is Blueberry Muffin?

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 10:30 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure if you guys looked into this, but a brief article from NBC Sports News came out saying that Gibbs expects Archuletta and Lloyd to return. Now, I think that despite Lloyd's attitude problems and not being able to catch, he has the ability to be a great WR. If he could just get his head around the game, and focus on the plays, he has great speed, and great ability to jump and catch. On the flipside, Adam Archuletta was supposed to be playing safety. Before signing with the Redskins, Adam was playing on the defensive line as a linebacker! It is mostly the coaches fault for putting so much pressure on him for playing an unfamilliar position, and all the money that he was supposed to pay off with his performance. Oh well, just another ol' bust for the skins.
Call me crazy, but I think it is somewhat a wise move for Gibbs to keep his mind on staying with Archuletta and Lloyd for '07. As Gibbs has learned from experience, he let go of many "key-players" when they became free agents and signed with other teams, which they succeeded on. I think he wants to work around those two guys, and see what he can make out of them. Hey, maybe they might end up playing backups, while the 'Skins might sign a stronger player.

Speaking of signing new players, the 'Skins have let go of many high draft picks, and unfortunatly we have to pay back for those in the '07 draft. I believe the Redskins get 6th pick, and when they do pick, they better be picking someone for the defense. They cannot waste a 6th pick for a WR, but somebody for pass coverage, desperatly needing a CB because of Shawn Spring's age and rumours that he might switch to the safety position. I believe the Redskins could work on Lloyd for WR, and if not, they can find one in the later draft pick, or make a crucially WISE decision to find a perfect one in Free Agency.

Jason Campbell, ah. (By the way, I was at the game at FedEx on Saturday night, and I happened to be over the Redskin's locker room tunnel. Jason Campbell looked really nervous/tired/blanked face, and he was tiredly holding his hand up for the fans to slap, and he had his wristband at the tip. I happened to grab that wristband, and he did not express anything after I took it. Now I have Jason's wristband, and it means alot to me, because it is somewhat a charm of goodluck, and helps me believe in him.) Back to Campbell himself. Well, this guy, I believe in him SO much. Not many people see it coming, but he has such great potential, and he showed us a heck of a lot of that on Saturday night. The 'Skins were in a 7-24 score at halftime, and Jason was knocked out a few series before the halftime whistle. With Mark Brunell coming in the game, a lot of fans lost hope that we would be able to make some scores and comebacks in this game. Nobody knew if Campbell would come back to play and Mark Brunell would end the night, the final game for the season. At FedEx when Campbell came in in the 3rd quarter, I remember rising to my feet, and feeling so proud that he fought through that hit and came back. Then, Campbell breaks potential sacks and runs for the first downs. That 1) shows us that he has the ability to break from tackles and 2) shows us that he is mobile. The only thing he needs to work on is his sliding, and avoiding hits. Next, Campbell is making plays. He's throwing the ball, down the center, deep, and bringing us many times in the red zone. He scored from 7 points in the first half to bringing us to a final of 28 points. I don't know about you guys, but this guy really shows us something.

Now, let's not get our hopes running high that next year the 'Skins will get into the playoffs. I, myself, have a good feeling with Campbell's high performance, and a stable offense with a quietly excellent offensive line, we have some great skills going into next season. But you have to remember: The Defense. Ouch..there's going to have to be many, many changes regarding signing new players, training new players, changing positions and working on schemes. I think Gregg Williams can bring this defense back to where it was, since he put them in the top 10 for two consecutive seasons, and there is a bright outlook on changes in the defense.

Ladell Betts vs. Clinton Portis. All of the comments made about how Ladell's stats are higher than Portis's when Ladell has played less games, is all very surprising, and you're wondering why not the coaching staff start Ladell next season and trade off Portis for a great defensive player. Well, we cannot let go of Portis. The big reason why Ladell was so successfull was because the offensive line made so many holes for him, and really, we have to owe it to that offensive line. If Portis had that o-line opportunity, he would be making 150+ yards per game. I think we need to keep Portis, not let go of someone who has so much running power, and we can use Ladell for other crucial running positions. Hey, maybe Portis will hurt himself again. Boom, there's always Ladell to back him up!

Let's hope that all the changes in the offseason are made for the good, and that in '07 the 'Skins aren't one, big flop again. Don't keep saying that they will make it in the post-season. Remember, they were 5-11. That's tough. We'll see where the three-time Superbowl coach can take us on his 67th year of his life, and if the 'Skins can flop that 5-11 record to 11-5.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 2, 2007 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Okay, I'm now officially sick of hearing Gibbs talk about the good free agents that have joined the team.

I wish someone had the cohones to ask him how Clark and Harris could be let go, esp. considering the seasons they had and how the powers-that-be could have, so poorly, evaluated their talent and worth to the team.

Posted by: Redskinrex | January 2, 2007 10:37 PM | Report abuse

RedskinsRex,

Letting go of Clark was a mystery to me - especially since he really wanted to stay and he had one or two interceptions last season.

As for Harris, almost everyone on this blog (not me) did not think he was very good and did not mind him leaving...until he went to SF and started making plays.

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 10:48 PM | Report abuse

yeah yeah nate!

on defense:
3rd of 3 articles is out:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/02/AR2007010201192.html

Posted by: dealer | January 2, 2007 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Portis and Betts are both excellant RB's and we should use them as more of a 1-2 punch next season. Betts has had the luxury of a good passing game to help his running. When a defense respects the pass, it opens up the running game. Thank Jason Campbell for that as well.

Posted by: James | January 2, 2007 11:13 PM | Report abuse

The Portis/Betts situation is going to be commonplace around the League. You used to have a single top back, now you absolutely have to have a top back and a top and a half back. It's the way it is, with both the brutality of the game and sophistication of defenses. Betts and Portis will get their touches, and I honestly think the days of a 30-carry back are over.

Great article by Les, very fair and very balanced. This is the money quote:

>>> "You can't go from being right to wrong. You can't. You don't go from being a good coach to not knowing anything."

Guys, this is a worst-to-first League. Things will turn around for the 'Skins. Believe it. Yes, they need to fix their front office situation and get back to that "three person in a box" decision-making style. Yes, they need to upgrade talent on defense. Yes, they need to get younger and healthier on defense. On offense, everyone knew it was going to take 3 months from August to November to get on track and, by gosh, that's exactly what happened.

Patience. Enjoy the offseason :-)

Where's Redskins One?

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 11:31 PM | Report abuse

The Carpenter article ruined the three-part series.
Absolute puff piece. It did nothing to answer the mystery of the season: why an entire defense regressed. And please don't give us the Shawn Springs injury excuse as the sole reason. They beat Tampa Bay in the playoffs last year without Springs. In order, Bryant's piece was the best, Jason's next and the last one was an absolute apology for Williams.

Posted by: Seth | January 2, 2007 11:56 PM | Report abuse

Seth, I think Episodes II and III went hand in hand.

First we heard about how dysfunctional the Saunders offense was, then we heard about how the Saunders offense posed a severe challenge to the Williams defense whether it succeeded or failed.

The theory is that a quick-strike, high-octane offense will not be staying on the field, sustaining drives and eating clock, and giving the defense sufficient rest. I think that theory was borne out by our early failures this season. This was a systemic problem beyond the injuries and lack of depth, or in addition to them, I should say.

By the time the offense evened out somewhat (after Gibbs asserted himself?) and started putting together grinding drives, the D was pretty much a shambles. Our non-injured and non-benched safeties, corners, LBs and the giant hole in the cover-2 had been exposed and exploited week after week. It was too late.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 12:59 AM | Report abuse

Lisa, you have no idea about Champ whatsoever. trust me. He was basically pushed out the door. believe what you will.
Also, it's beyond naive to compare the Ravens to the Redskin, Quite silly, actually. One has survived the constant departure of coordinators and front office staff, made the playoffs 4 of the last 7 years and won a Super Bowl 4 years back.
The other made the playoffs twice in 15 years, can't put two half decent seasons together, has a flawed front office.
Facts are facts.

Posted by: Jason La Canfora | January 3, 2007 1:36 AM | Report abuse


I see your late post
And raise you fifteen minutes.
Long days suck big time.

Posted by: HaikuMan | January 3, 2007 1:45 AM | Report abuse

I liked Part 3 of the lost season but I thought it was extremely telling that there was only one quote from a player on the Skins. Everyone standing up for Gwilligan came from outside the organization.
Cindy - J-La - any background on that?

Also notice that at no time does he really take responsibility for what happened this season. Not that Saunders did either really but still.

Finally here's what my experience on the planet has been. Arrogant people who have a right to be arrogant make no apologies for their arrogance. Arrogant people who don't have a right to be arrogant will tell you they aren't arrogant and then they'll tell you all these things that they do that simply show their arrogance.

Yes I do not want this guy back so my bias and anger is one step below jm's but I have to say this article did not put Williams in a particularly good light. Maybe the offense dragged the defense down but that doesn't account for the full implosion. To go from 3 to 9 to 31 in 3 years is a downright catastrophe that simply wasn't accounted for by Williams.

By the way did y'all see the house cleaning going on in JAX? Yikes!

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 1:56 AM | Report abuse

J-La, great work. You and others have come out swinging on our behalf, and it needs to be done. Thanks.

Wondering if you have any take on Portis' big statements today (Tuesday). I didn't hear any of it directly, but the blog peeps said he went off to every outlet available, clearly criticizing Saunders.

Is this what you gathered from Portis, a vehemently stated position almost along the lines of 'it's him or me'? Is this a departure from his public commentary in the regular season, either in tone or in content? And do you think there will be a backlash against him by the team?

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 1:57 AM | Report abuse

J-La - I'm curious about something. I know that protocol states that coaches keep their mouths shut during the season unless it is at pressers or it's the HC. Given the breadth and scope of the these 3 articles (really excellent by the way - WaPo continues to have one of best sports sections of major newspapers) are these just a "standard" end of season review where things are opened up to reporters because it is better to get it over now and move on?
Or is this part of a full court PR move on the part of the organization basically signaling what is going to go down in off-season?
Or were these guys just finally let off leash and decided to be open?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 2:03 AM | Report abuse

J-La, do you ever tire of our nonstop barrage of questions covering topics from the legit to the obscure, the absurd and the obscene?

We love ya, buddy.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 2:34 AM | Report abuse

JLaC, who is your favorite George Michael?

My second favorite George Mchael apparently doesn't know how to drive a car.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 3, 2007 3:00 AM | Report abuse

"Now, I think that despite Lloyd's attitude problems and not being able to catch, he has the ability to be a great WR. If he could just get his head around the game, and focus on the plays, he has great speed, and great ability to jump and catch"

Sounds like BLloyd should be converted to Cornerback - he would be a perfect bookend to Carlos "I coulda been a Pro Bowl contenda" Rogers.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 4:45 AM | Report abuse

Well, it's sad to hear that about Champ. I saw him being interviewed right before he left here and it seemed evident he wanted out so that was certainly the assumption I made (as did most people).

Did you talk to the "unnamed" player (or players) directly or get the info from other sources? Just curious as it seems strange to me that the players would talk to a reporter from a major newspaper especially in light of what Clinton said yesterday.

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 7:49 AM | Report abuse

Wow. I was an OB (Original Blogger) and to see what yall have done since i been gone is pretty amazing. It's good to be back after such a horrible season.

Posted by: Macaca Johnson | January 3, 2007 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Nate,

I did not hear anything close to "it's either him or me" from Portis (in his interview). He never mentioned names but he did say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and talked about how well we were playing down the stretch last season and then "changes."

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Great story in days paper JLC. Still say kick double G out the door. Smack in the back of the head just because.

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 8:55 AM | Report abuse

My first day back to work and it sucks!

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 9:01 AM | Report abuse

I know this is late, but happy new year, everybody!

Now that I've read all 3 installments I feel like I've been commenting on stuff that I didn't fully understand completely. Of course, I still don't know 99% of what goes on at Redskins park but it's nice to get that 1%.

Hopefully we trade down in the draft and get a later 1st rounder as well as a 3rd round pick for our #6 (unless there's a sure pick at 6). Saunders has all of his toys on O so I'm hoping we can get a legit DL that can help the pass rush and a legit starting corner because Rogers is going to end up as our #1 sooner rather than later.

Maybe ol' Double Move can turn the corner in year 3 like a lot of guys do. He showed a few flashes later in the season and if he'd quit that stupid dancing after plays he has nothing to do with (dropped passes aren't because of you, buddy), he'd be okay. Oh, and catching one or two of those interceptions would be nice.

But that's my wishlist right now. I'm sure it'll change tomorrow.

Posted by: [cc] | January 3, 2007 9:02 AM | Report abuse

"fully understand completely." yup, i'm still jacked up from NYE...

Posted by: [cc] | January 3, 2007 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Thought you might enjoy a view from the other side of the lookingglass--I'm down in S. FL today and listening to the local ESPN station and the host is talking about prospects of Saban leaving the Dolphins for Alabama. The host suggests that maybe the Dolphins should consider having Shula (the father) return to Miami, invoking the names of Gibbs and Parcells as precedent. So whenever you think about how bad things have gone since Joe's return, imagine being so far behind the 8 ball that you're considering Don Shula as a head coach!

Also, hearing about Cower's possible departure from P-burgh made me think how great it would be to have a coach on the Skins sidelines whose expression during the game more closely resembled my own when things started hitting the fan. A guy who looks like he'd beat their guts out if they didn't play their guts out!

Posted by: TomLandry'sGhost | January 3, 2007 9:11 AM | Report abuse

NosferatusCoffin, no, that must be a different Joe in Raleigh. I've never called a sports radio show. I listen to Rome sometimes on 850, but that's about it. Sort of makes me wish I'd chosen a more original name for RI. Oh well.

In case you're interested, I'm from DC too and have lived in Raleigh about as long as you.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I liked Parts 1-2 (great quotes), but Part 3 was beyond bad. The worst part was that nonsense about the offense "not protecting" the defense because of their quick strikes. What team was Les Carpenter watching? I saw few/no quick strikes from the beginning of the preseason until the final gun.

You could make the case that because of the increased passing that there were more 3-and-outs which keep the defense on the field. However, the 2004 offense couldn't sustain drives either and the defense ranked 3rd. So this reads like Les took a throw-away quote from Parcells and then drummed up some anonymous quotes to support it. Does Les watch the games?

And what about the lack of turnovers? We set multiple franchise and NFL records for futility and he didn't even mention it! But, hey, at least we know what Gregg keeps on his wall and in his filing cabinets. Inquiring minds wanted to know!

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Grilliams article.

I really didn't mind what Grilliams said with one exception. Regarding whether Saunders offense hurt his defense"

"Williams did not want to discuss the subject, saying he would never criticize another coach publicly. "We have a responsibility to play our defense," he said."

I'd have had more respect for the guy if he did blame him. I'm not saying I'd agree but that statement right there is why I hope Grilliams never becomes our coach.

You are paid millions to stop Offenses. Don't blame the O coordinator for your crappy defense when you couldn't get a blitzer to the qb on the first drive of the game. That's not the O's fault.

Posted by: Skinz | January 3, 2007 9:43 AM | Report abuse

A late April trip to NYC anyone? I'll be spending today getting paid to research the top college Def prospects...

Posted by: Pub Golf | January 3, 2007 9:49 AM | Report abuse

we should go to Lambeau next year when the Skins play the Pack!

Posted by: [cc] | January 3, 2007 10:01 AM | Report abuse

"Don't blame the O coordinator for your crappy defense when you couldn't get a blitzer to the qb on the first drive of the game."

Exactly. During one game they pointed out the opposing offenses always go deep on the Redskins with their first play. Hard to argue that it's Weird Al's fault.

And if it were a matter of fatigue, why was the 3rd quarter was always the worst for the defense? You'd expect them to be rested and ready to go coming out of the halftime break.

I call BS on part 3.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Fell into a nearby pond? Nice!!!

Posted by: SMACK | January 3, 2007 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Les' Third installment was OK as a profile/puff piece on ManBoobs, I learned some stuff from reading it and was well written...

BUT..

As installment three is was a JOKE! It was not analytical nor did it shed light on the X and Os and managerial thinking that the others did....and no talk of Archeletta? Parts 1 and 2 were off the hook good and were like a cold beer after a hard days labor. Why wasn't our boys Bryant and Jason on the case???????? I would have gladly waited a few days between installments to have the beat guys write it. Love the Post Sports (def best in nation) but that was an editorial mistake.

Posted by: Chris Larry | January 3, 2007 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Listen guys our defense sucks because we almost zero talent. I have heard and read many times other NFL talent evaluators say we have maybe one or two decient starting quality people (Washington and Griffin). Our most talented player (Taylor) is an undisciplined headcase who takes terrible angles, bites on playfakes and as result is never in position to make a play on the ball. He then has to go for a kill shot and hope the reciever drops it or gets "alligator arms" well its the NFL people and most of these guys know they are going to get hit so they catch it anyway.Griffin's best year was 2004 when was a disruptive force constantly in the backfield.He has been hurt alot since and is now on the other side of 30.Springs talented but hurt and old. I could go on, but you get the point.If all NFL defensive players where available and you could build a defense would you honestly chose any redskin? As a matter of fact the only redskin who might get a sliver of consideration is Taylor because he has supreme physical gifts, but there are at least 5 safties I would chose ahead of him (Dawkins, Reed,Polimolou, Adrian Wilson and Roy Williams)
Arogant or not, it is not Greg williams, we need players and need them upfront younger faster impact players in the front seven. One or two will make a huge impact.

Posted by: Old School | January 3, 2007 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Part III: The Humanization of Man Boobs.

"See I'm not so bad. (number 30 defense in the league). Players really like me but when I try to make friends they make up lies about me falling into ponds...look how organized my notebooks are."

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 3, 2007 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Roy Williams

Old School have seen any games with Roy this year? Did you see any of his play last week against the Lions? I would not take Roy over the Reaper.

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 10:44 AM | Report abuse

The question becomes do we lack talent because of Grilliams arrogance.

If you keep Smoot then you don't draft Double Move so you can use that pick to draft a pass rusher. Let's see can you think of any pash rushing guys that were avail. then? Oh right Merriman.

If you keep Peirce then you don't spend 2 second rounders on Rocky.

How about you keep Clark and draft a Defensive lineman with that pick or 3rd DB.

Your D just got alot more talented.

Posted by: Skinz | January 3, 2007 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Old School...

Roy Williams....puleeze!

Posted by: chris Larry | January 3, 2007 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Dolphin job is now open. Please or please let someone hire double G.

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 10:54 AM | Report abuse

We have a pool and a pond. The pond would be good for you.

Posted by: SMACK | January 3, 2007 10:56 AM | Report abuse

excellent, excellent point skinz. I wish Carpenter put that scenario out there and asked Grilliams to comment.

Might have been that the only way they got the interview was to agree to keep it more feature oriented. It would've been nice to hear his thoughts on what went wrong mechanically and what he intends to do in order to get it fixed. It's a bigger mess than he thinks. We're thin in each area of the D.

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 3, 2007 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Jason, with all these anonymous sources popping off about the discord between coaches, players, and front office it's hard to believe that major changes aren't coming. That Gibbs and Saunders aren't on the same page philosophically is troubling for sure, but what is worse is that Gibbs appears to have been so hands off that it took several losses for him to put his foot down and get back to running the ball. It's pretty bewildering that Gibbs wouldn't have more of a hand in gameday situations/philosophy (i.e., we're playing a first year QB, so let's help him out by running the ball down their throats in). Will Saunders be able to check his ego if Gibbs asserts more influence? If Gibbs can't step in to implement his gameday "adjustments" (something he was famous for in Gibbs I) for fear of stepping on egos, then they're doomed to failure until changes are made.

Posted by: skinswest | January 3, 2007 11:01 AM | Report abuse

I'm a pretty logical guy. Here are the facts:

1) D was very good.
2) D, at the end of the year last year, was also very good.
3) D was terrible this year for the entire year.

I give the Les Carpenter story 'no creedance'...

Posted by: ArtMonkToTheSticks | January 3, 2007 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Old School, we've used our first pick on a defensive player in the past 3 drafts. Now we're talking about doing it AGAIN. If we have zero talent, it's because someone is picking the wrong people. Or perhaps talented people aren't in a position to showcase their talents. Regardless, these are questions for the Defensive Assistant Head Coach.

Griffin turned 30 a few weeks ago. If you're in Hawaii for the Pro Bowl, you can ask Jamal Williams if that is too old for a DT.

For the record, I don't hate Grilliams. He's done well in that past and I think he'll turn it around. I do, however, think he's got some 'splainin to do.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I'm a pretty logical guy. Here are the facts:

1) D was very good.
2) D, at the end of the year last year, was also very good.
3) D was terrible this year for the entire year.

I give the Les Carpenter story 'no creedance'...

Posted by: ArtMonkToTheSticks | January 3, 2007 11:12 AM | Report abuse

I'm in agreement with the masses, the first two pieces were a total indictment of the team, and its coach's. The third piece was much less informative that the Tom Friend article. Of all the coach's that needed to have a insightful/investigative piece written on them it was Williams, and we got nothing but excuses.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | January 3, 2007 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Ku and Macaca are back! This is a good day.

Posted by: Jason's editor | January 3, 2007 11:23 AM | Report abuse

I'm beating a dead horse hear...

To call a fast offense a reason for a bad defense makes no sense. It's like saying "if you can sustain an offensive drive for about 14 minutes, then the opposing offense will have about 1 minute in each quarter to score." Hey, with that kind of offense you can have a top ranking defense.

P.S.
We should come up with a new name for GWilliams, something along the lines 'no creedance'; got drunk and fell into the pond; they published lies about me, now i'm not talking to them.

Posted by: thor | January 3, 2007 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Bowling Green, KY


Jan 3 Today
Abundant sunshine. High 57F. Winds SSW at 5 to 10 mph.
Jan 3 Tonight
Partly cloudy skies early will give way to cloudy skies late. Low 39F. Winds light and variable.
Jan 4 Tomorrow
Rain showers in the morning becoming steady in the afternoon. High 57F. Winds S at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 80%. Rainfall near a quarter of an inch.
Jan 4 Tomorrow night
Periods of rain. Low 52F. Winds S at 10 to 15 mph. Chance of rain 90%.
Jan 5 Friday
Rain with a few rumbles of thunder. Highs in the low 60s and lows in the upper 40s.
Jan 6 Saturday
Few showers. Highs in the mid 50s and lows in the low 30s.

Posted by: loco mullin | January 3, 2007 11:23 AM | Report abuse

maybe Grilliams is becoming more and more sensitive as his breasts grow...which would explain the drop in performance by the defense.

Put that man on a program before the 'Tiki Barber neck massage' becomes our patented mode of tackling.

Sorry...drawing my own conclusions here as the Les article left a lot to be answered.

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 3, 2007 11:23 AM | Report abuse

I was at the Giants game watching Arch Deluxe on the sidelines. When not protecting Frost he is walking around the sidelines wearing a ski hat and holding his helmet in his hand. When Greg Williams told him to get in the game he acted like a rookie fumbling with his helmet not knowing what to do. He wasn't involved in the play at all, a pass to the opposite side of the field, but when he came off the field Greg Williams came right up to him and said something. Arch Deluxe never took his helmet off the rest of the game on the sidelines and was right behind Williams waiting for his chance to get in the game. I found myself cheering everytime he was put into the lineup. I don't know if it was Jason's article from last week or what, but the highest paid safety in the league needs to be playing no matter how bad he might be in coverage. He can sure tackle a lot better than Fox can. I think Arch needs to be here one more year and see what he can do.

Posted by: CE | January 3, 2007 11:28 AM | Report abuse

re: new nick name- how about Pond Dweller?

get back in your pond Williams and fix the D

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 3, 2007 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Swamp Thing?

Posted by: SMACK | January 3, 2007 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Can we really do better than "Man Boobs"

Posted by: chris Larry | January 3, 2007 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Creedance Pondwater

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Listened to CP's 980 interview again.

I wonder if Saunders really will be back. How can you run an offense without one person having control of the entire vision? The passing game and running game feed off eachother, yet, according to CP, Saunders and Gibbs never held joint meetings. How can this be? Who was devising the game plan? Not to mention the fact that Saunders prefers Betts and Gibbs prefers CP. Gibbs needs to make the tough decision and cut ties with Saunders now. Yes, it will be a tacit admission of a mistake. But don't make it worse by dragging it out.

Maybe Art Shell will get canned and they will hire Al.

Posted by: CMoney | January 3, 2007 11:45 AM | Report abuse

i disagree with the masses. hey, i'll take a sure future HOF-er's perception over all you any day. and yes, it helps that i said the same exact thing earlier on this post that tuna said. Weird Al had no regards for his defense.

AGAIN you guys are missing the point on injuries.

Missing 3-5 starters per game IS an EXCUSE.

the O only put up NINETEEN points per game.

the D gave them a chance for a WINNING drive in almost every close game. if you don't believe me go back and see.[and start with the last game]

the only indictment (and it's a big one) is that he can't judge talent. and guess what neither can joe gibbs.

so lay off double G. cuz his D had joe gibbs' ancient offense's ass all of first and second year. but when it came time for the other way around the O averaged same points as it did the first time around.

people, listen to people who know crap, unlike me, people like Shawn Springs. they're telling you our D lacks TALENT a lot of it. all thanks to the stupid process the skins org has set up to acquire talent.

the best, the most truthful and most indicting quote of the article was this:

As the team has added players he's chosen, its performance has deteriorated.

THIS is correctable in a FO that knows what they're doing.

now, if you'll excuse me i think i'm going to go apply for one of the GM, coaching positions opening up in the league.

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Getting rid of Saunders gives your young QB his 6th OC in 6 years. That would be horrible.

Posted by: Skinz | January 3, 2007 11:50 AM | Report abuse

No doubt, Roy Williams (dallas, not detroit) is the most overrated player in the NFL since, well, LaVar Arrington.
Drops more ballas than TO, gets burned more than any other safety in the league, and wiffs on too many tackles going for the K.O. (yes, the same can be said about the Reaper, but he isn't the one going to pro bowls)

Posted by: #31 | January 3, 2007 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Put your hate for the boys aside and right now Roy Willams is a better saftey than our boy the reaper. I am not saying he has more talent or doesn't get beat in coverage. But he makes lots of game changing plays, picks that that go to the house or stop drives and change momoment sacks and fumble recoveries. Bottom line he makes plays and is the undisputed leader of that D. Not just big hits. Reaper needs to step it up or he will be the next Lavar more hype that play.

As far as the draft goes when was the last time drafted a defensive end in round 1, Kenord Lang in the 90's. I will say again, Manley, Mann, Butz and Grant. 2 dominating upfield pash rushers and 2 run stuffing tackles. Thats the forumla. Maybe we have one in Carter? Has the body type and his play improved greatly over the 5 or 6 games. Now get a Charles Mann body type on the other side. I agree with most here no confidence in in our front office but even a blind pig gets lucky once in awhile.

I see some things from Gibbs that make me think he is begining to put his plan in place (yeah in year 3 instead of year 1) it starts going back to the smash mouth style running big play passing of the 80's/90's. Now he has to close eyes and think back about what made the other side the ball so good, it was say it with me "Manley, Mann, Butz and Grant" Run the ball stop the run, hit a big play on O kill the QB on D. That was football in the 80's that is football today.

Lastly this is the forumla the Parcells uses over and over again. Everywhere he has gone he simply does his best to recreate the 86 giants. In New england it was Willie Mcginist playing LT. With the Jets it was John Abraham and now Demarcus Ware. It starts there and he builds the rest same way big lineman, solid running back yada yada yada 86 giants. Gibbs needs to recvonstruct 82/83 skins 0r 91 take your pick.

Posted by: Old School | January 3, 2007 11:58 AM | Report abuse

i've said this before and i'll say it again and (i'm not fishing for anything). but i'm not a good writer and most of you are better than me and maybe you guys saw something that i didn't.

but i love the way les carpenter writes. it's so refreshing from the other two jocks(howard bryant and jason) :).

the only thing i didn't like was the lack of questions/answers regarding the treatment of players by dale lindsey and about adam archeuleta. but they must've had good reson(?).

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Put your hate for the boys aside and right now Roy Willams is a better saftey than our boy the reaper. I am not saying he has more talent or doesn't get beat in coverage. But he makes lots of game changing plays, picks that that go to the house or stop drives and change momoment sacks and fumble recoveries. Bottom line he makes plays and is the undisputed leader of that D. Not just big hits. Reaper needs to step it up or he will be the next Lavar more hype that play.

As far as the draft goes when was the last time drafted a defensive end in round 1, Kenord Lang in the 90's. I will say again, Manley, Mann, Butz and Grant. 2 dominating upfield pash rushers and 2 run stuffing tackles. Thats the forumla. Maybe we have one in Carter? Has the body type and his play improved greatly over the 5 or 6 games. Now get a Charles Mann body type on the other side. I agree with most here no confidence in in our front office but even a blind pig gets lucky once in awhile.

I see some things from Gibbs that make me think he is begining to put his plan in place (yeah in year 3 instead of year 1) it starts going back to the smash mouth style running big play passing of the 80's/90's. Now he has to close eyes and think back about what made the other side the ball so good, it was say it with me "Manley, Mann, Butz and Grant" Run the ball stop the run, hit a big play on O kill the QB on D. That was football in the 80's that is football today.

Lastly this is the forumla the Parcells uses over and over again. Everywhere he has gone he simply does his best to recreate the 86 giants. In New england it was Willie Mcginist playing LT. With the Jets it was John Abraham and now Demarcus Ware. It starts there and he builds the rest same way big lineman, solid running back yada yada yada 86 giants. Gibbs needs to reconstruct 82/83 skins 0r 91 take your pick.

Posted by: Old School | January 3, 2007 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Put your hate for the boys aside and right now Roy Willams is a better saftey than our boy the reaper. I am not saying he has more talent or doesn't get beat in coverage. But he makes lots of game changing plays, picks that that go to the house or stop drives and change momoment sacks and fumble recoveries. Bottom line he makes plays and is the undisputed leader of that D. Not just big hits. Reaper needs to step it up or he will be the next Lavar more hype that play.

As far as the draft goes when was the last time drafted a defensive end in round 1, Kenord Lang in the 90's. I will say again, Manley, Mann, Butz and Grant. 2 dominating upfield pash rushers and 2 run stuffing tackles. Thats the forumla. Maybe we have one in Carter? Has the body type and his play improved greatly over the 5 or 6 games. Now get a Charles Mann body type on the other side. I agree with most here no confidence in in our front office but even a blind pig gets lucky once in awhile.

I see some things from Gibbs that make me think he is begining to put his plan in place (yeah in year 3 instead of year 1) it starts going back to the smash mouth style running big play passing of the 80's/90's. Now he has to close eyes and think back about what made the other side the ball so good, it was say it with me "Manley, Mann, Butz and Grant" Run the ball stop the run, hit a big play on O kill the QB on D. That was football in the 80's that is football today.

Lastly this is the forumla the Parcells uses over and over again. Everywhere he has gone he simply does his best to recreate the 86 giants. In New england it was Willie Mcginist playing LT. With the Jets it was John Abraham and now Demarcus Ware. It starts there and he builds the rest same way big lineman, solid running back yada yada yada 86 giants. Gibbs needs to reconstruct 82/83 skins 0r 91 take your pick.

Posted by: Old School | January 3, 2007 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Dealer:

you are wrong w/r to defense this year. O looked at last year and this year and if I remember correctly, by the 10th game of the season last year's offense had play about a game's worth more downs than this year's crew.

This year's O did more with less than last year's O. Defense stinks and it is not because of the offense. They picked it up over the last few games, but generally cuold not make a play to get off the field. Look at all the VERY long drives we gave up to just about everybody. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 3, 2007 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Dealer- missing 3-5 starters is not an excuse. It's Williams responsibility to be prepared and bolster the D with depth. Injuries are part of the game and should be prepared for.

The drop-off should not be as severe as going from Springs to Rumph, Wright, etc.
That's ridiculous.

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 3, 2007 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Getting rid of Saunders gives your young QB his 6th OC in 6 years. That would be horrible.

Yes, it's not ideal. But if JC is going to be the Skins' QB for the next decade, than going back to Gibbs' passing game right now (which Campbell did learn his first season) wouldn't be a drastic move.

Posted by: CMoney | January 3, 2007 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm confident that the problems with the skins will get worked out. If you stop listening to Gibbs' words and focus on his communication (read the body language and patterns of speech), you will realize that he is aware of the true issues, including the poor personnel choices. I think he is humble and tough enough to make the hard changes even if it means surrendering some of his personnel authority.

NOW, my real issue is with Snyder. I will bet that when he raised ticket prices last year that he had another hike planned for this off season. But with the team tanking, he'll probably not implement this hike. BUT IF HE DOES RAISE PRICES, TICKETS OR PARKING, ALL FANS SHOULD BOYCOTT!!! IN FACT, WHEN THE TICKETS GO ON SALE, FANS SHOULD HOLD A SIT-IN AT THE TICKET OFFICE WITHOUT PURCHASING ONE DARN TICKET UNTIL SNYDER DIRCTLY ADDRESSES THE FANS...NOT THE PRESS BUT THE FANS. LET'S STOP WHINING ABOUT OUR BELOVED REDSKINS AND INSIST ON A BETTER PERFORMANCE. ISN'T IT US WHO PAY THESE GUYS?

Whew! Now, have a nice day.

Posted by: FW | January 3, 2007 12:07 PM | Report abuse

also- look at all the 3rd and longs they gave up. That starts with the coach and his scheme.

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 3, 2007 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I think their are alot of players better than ST at his position right now. I can name about 5 safeties I'd rather have than Taylor, Roy Williams isn't one of them.

He is a bit better in pass coverage a bit worse in run coverage and 6 years older.

If you want to see the two best safeties in the league play you're in luck. They play for the two closest NFL teams to our area excluding the Skins.

Posted by: Skinz | January 3, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

The 3rd and longs were a nightmare this year... look at the opener, both Giants games, the Jax game we almost blew... appauling to give up as many 3rd and 8's and longer (sometimes 3rd and 16 and 17) as we did. No excuse.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 3, 2007 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Sorry computer error, not three posts for extra emphasis.

Posted by: Old School | January 3, 2007 12:28 PM | Report abuse

FW, I'm with you... we really need to start organizing on these boycott ideas. Seems to be the only way to restore our team to respectability.

Posted by: FW is right | January 3, 2007 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I'm with those calling Part III a puff piece. Reason: By the end I almost started thinking Williams was misunderstood.
The fact is the players on this team are players HE wanted. He let good players like Clark and Pierce go because he believed his system made it happen and not the players. DubG has not done anything without talent. In Tennessee, he had a d-line featuring The Freak that forced quick throws. It's about the players not the coaches. And if you want to protect your defense, get some players who can force 3 and outs or create some TOs to get themselves off the field.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 3, 2007 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Snyder, Gibbs, Saunders, Bugel, Williams. All here for the long haul, people. Let's not waste too much bandwidth wishing for their replacement because they're all coming back.

In the aftermath of a bad season, the Post gives us a 3-part series summarizing what went wrong. But Les mailed it in with some nonsense about how the OFFENSE let down the defense. You couldn't WATCH THE GAMES and come to that conclusion.

What about the lack of turnovers? What about the must-have 2nd round LB that sat on the bench all year? What about Arch and Rogers? All are guys that Williams presumably wanted, yet, we're to believe that he didn't have the players he needed? And somehow the OFFENSE is the problem? Very clearly, Les missed the story.

Someone at the Post ought to hold Les's paycheck until he gives an honest effort.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Yes,

The boycotts did well for Detroit and Matt Millen

Posted by: OC Skins | January 3, 2007 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Watch LaRon Landry tonight and Reggie Nelson on the National Championship. Evaluate. Make assessments. AMTTS and I feel confident that we will trade down a few spots since we have so many needs and the draft is not top heavy with impact players.

As Rick James would say: Enjoy yoself.

Posted by: The Governor | January 3, 2007 12:51 PM | Report abuse

guys, i'm not saying double G's scheme wasn't to blame and neither is he. i'm saying that the lack of depth SHOULDN't be his problem. it's a personnel matter. he is HORRIBLE and so is joe at picking players. but coaches like him, like gibbs need a decent gm to save them from themselves.

btw, guys...i just had an epiphone.

rember last year gibbs said "my offense isn't good enough so i'm going to go hire an OC". well i think this year he's finally seen the light on the "GM" thingie. i think he finally realized that this isn't working out and they need someone there to save him from himself.

why do i think that? because rember when jason (of this blog) got all over me about criticzing tom boswell's article (interview with gibbs)? well tom is right joe does want a gm.

and the reason he backtracked is because of snyder and cerrato.

cuz everytime you ask him (about a "gm") he leaves a tiny bit room for a "gm" or an upgrade to FO. but when someone (as "joe" did in his last presser) presses him on it he pulls a gibsian and doesn't really answer the question and always defers to "snyder and i will talk about it"...or somethign to that sort.

i think the truth is gibbs realizes it(the need of a stronger personnel person who has authority over the coaches especially williams) and now has to sell it to snyder.

because ultimately what joe is asking for is that there ought to be an opening for a racquetball partner for snyder. (i wish i knew how to play racquetball!).

but with the amount of money danny's spending on assistant coaches. he can afford a personal racquetball partner for $500K/year.

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 12:54 PM | Report abuse

If Vinny is still the one scouting this draft for the Skins, then I say keep the #6 -- better to screw up only 1 pick than to screw up 3 or 4.

Posted by: CMoney | January 3, 2007 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I disagree with suggestion that Portis and Saunders cannot co-exist AND be successful. Saunders has coached some winning offenses. His problem this year was trying to adapt his past successes to a new group of players he didn't know.

I agree with the comment that two top backs are the new must in the NFL. Also, someone said that Betts was better in the passing game. I'm doubting that could be attributed to anything other than Campbell being Betts' QB.

Saunders has to throw out his old play book and START FRESH. IF he is as wise and experienced at offenses, then he should be able to do that. [Did you see that Seinfeld documentary 'The Comedian' showing how he had to come up with completely new material after selling all of it to HBO? Saunders needs to start fresh.]

Saunders has a BIG rushing O-line, not a short/fast/zone blocking passing O-line. Adapt.

He has two solid RBs who can run, block, and pass. PLUS, he has a FB who can do the same thing. Adapt.

He has a reliable TE. Re-sign Yoder (UFA now). Adapt.

Switch Lloyd and Randel-El (#2 #3), keep Thrash and Espy. Start over on the passing game based on the talents/abilities/limitations of THESE FIVE guys. Adapt.

Other than competing the WR position, I wouldn't change anything else about the offense. This offense with re-insertion of Portis, three healthy TEs (I'm including Pucillo as the utility TE), and maybe another WR can score points.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 12:56 PM | Report abuse

man, hearing Brian Mitchell and Scott Jackson disect this thing is depressing. Even a pee-wee football team isn't run this poorly.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 3, 2007 12:58 PM | Report abuse

I also love how "That's with two Gs" took credit for the Saunders hiring. Classic.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 3, 2007 1:02 PM | Report abuse


Hi Jason,

How do you think J. Campbell's performance this season compared to the other first time/rookie QBs in the league? Could you rank them in order from best to worst for us?
Young won rookie of the year and he played 12 games. How wuold you assess Campbell's progression after playing 7 games as compared to where V. Young was at after he started 7 games

Posted by: skins fan | January 3, 2007 1:03 PM | Report abuse

On the topic of staff, I think Danny Smith earned his spot for a while. I don't know how often special teams coaches move to coordinator or head coach positions, but Danny Smith is the only coach on the sidelines with any sort of energy. Have you ever looked down there? The guy has the game -long adreneline levels of a Cialis junkie. He is the coach equivalent of Sellers for getting players jacked up on the sidelines.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I also love how "That's with two Gs" took credit for the Saunders hiring. Classic.

I love that line as well....its like HELLO Saunders and Gibbs were on the same staff together and known eachother like 30 years!!!!!!!!!

manboobs puleeze....

Posted by: Chris Larry | January 3, 2007 1:12 PM | Report abuse

The Danny's got nothing on Alabama's boosters. Saban gets 8 yr $32 mill guaranteed.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 3, 2007 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of hiring Saunders.

Doesn't it seem odd that GW finds out about it after it's a done deal? Looks like Gibbs didn't discuss it with anybody.

Posted by: thor | January 3, 2007 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Some other quotes that weren't put in the article for the sake of brevity.

"Hey Oppenheimer how about we try splitting this Atom thingy."

"Orvel what if we grab you brother slap some wings on this thing and see if we can't get this baby off the ground"

"Well it was cold, i was rubbing these two sticks together and whammy!!"

Posted by: Skinz | January 3, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Thor- Definitely a sketchy way to go about things if it is true. Gibbs should've discussed the possible restructuring with all his coaches

Posted by: Jeff Hayes | January 3, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Skinz - awesome.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 1:41 PM | Report abuse

WOW...When you're 5-11 it all comes out!!!

I have a problem with players on a 5-11 team whining about the coaches and managment, especially under anonymity. Stop whining..."he won't talk to me". "He's too arrogant." Grilliams wasn't to arrogant when we were ranked 3rd and 9th. Remember the news piece about how happy players were to do "up/downs". Now they're throwing him under the bus.

Players...SHUT UP AND PLAY!!! YOU WERE 5-11!!! Defense you gave up a 14 point lead at home against Atlanta!!! You got torched for 237 yards from scrimmage!!!

Coaches...TELL THE TRUTH!!!YOU WERE 5-11!!!Cut the pre-season dog and pony show and play real football! Walk the talk...Trust your players on 4th and goal!!!

MANAGEMENT...(???) YOU WERE 5-11; It's obvious that the players you let go can play. Don't let Gibbs pick the players...don't let Danny Dollar negotiate contracts.Get rid of any player on a 5-11 team that thinks he is bigger than the team.

FANS...WITH THE MILLIONS OF CHANGES YOU HALL OF FAME "COACHES" AND "GM'S" WANT (AND YES WE NEED), BE PATIENT. I'M SURE WE'LL HEAR, WE'RE NOT WINNING FAST ENOUGH.


Posted by: sicwidit | January 3, 2007 1:50 PM | Report abuse

WOW...When you're 5-11 it all comes out!!!

I have a problem with players on a 5-11 team whining about the coaches and managment, especially under anonymity. Stop whining..."he won't talk to me". "He's too arrogant." Grilliams wasn't to arrogant when we were ranked 3rd and 9th. Remember the news piece about how happy players were to do "up/downs". Now they're throwing him under the bus.

Players...SHUT UP AND PLAY!!! YOU WERE 5-11!!! Defense you gave up a 14 point lead at home against Atlanta!!! You got torched for 237 yards from scrimmage!!!

Coaches...TELL THE TRUTH!!!YOU WERE 5-11!!!Cut the pre-season dog and pony show and play real football! Walk the talk...Trust your players on 4th and goal!!!

MANAGEMENT...(???) YOU WERE 5-11; It's obvious that the players you let go can play. Don't let Gibbs pick the players...don't let Danny Dollar negotiate contracts.Get rid of any player on a 5-11 team that thinks he is bigger than the team.

FANS...WITH THE MILLIONS OF CHANGES YOU HALL OF FAME "COACHES" AND "GM'S" WANT (AND YES WE NEED), BE PATIENT. I'M SURE WE'LL HEAR, WE'RE NOT WINNING FAST ENOUGH.


Posted by: sicwidit | January 3, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Also need to find out if Al Gore dropped by GG's office when he was inventing the internet...

Posted by: cload and daggar | January 3, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

cload and daggar,

correction: it's not the internet, it's the internets. just ask W

Posted by: thor | January 3, 2007 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Is the double- and triple- posting a simple user error, or some pathetic attempt to drive the postings above 30,000? If this continues, the numbers will have the same validity as FedEx attendance!

Posted by: cload and daggar | January 3, 2007 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Al Gore is a liar. I invented the internet. You're welcome.

Posted by: Gregg Williams | January 3, 2007 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Skins fan...

If I may weigh in...I think Jason Campbell has the goods, but has not been given the opportunity to develop and make mistakes. Vince Young seems to have been given a vote of confidence from Day 1. JC must work on his short pass accuracy and chemistry. I love how he is a threat with the deep ball, and his crossing routes are well thrown. If he settles down and just plays, he'll be fine. I think he's our quarterback for years to come.

Posted by: sicwidit | January 3, 2007 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I know that Williams said he didn't want to speak ill of another coach publicly so goody for him he just had a bunch of other people do it for him instead. Strictly as a football guy he is such an arrogant weenie.

I will reiterate my midnight post - I thought it was telling that virtually no players inside the organization stood up for him. They stood up for Gibbs and a little bit for Saunders.

I don't think we can top ManBoobs as a name but I would also suggest Bart Simpson as in "I didn't do it."

Here's what drives me more insane than just about anything. . . when something is going FUBAR TAKE RESPONSIBILITY! You bask in the glow of praise well be "a man" and step up and shoulder some of the responisiblity when it goes south.

Yes we had injuries this season but that just goes to show how crappy our depth is which is apparently his fault as he had more or less free rein to pick personnel. We gave up so many long drives and if one of our statheads on the blog knows - how many 3rd downs did we give up? I swear to god every game just as things were going our way I'd think well of course we're going to blow it by giving up a crucial 3rd down and usually we did.

I did notice an intersting numbers thing
2004 - 3rd
2005 - 9th = 3x3
2006 - 27th = 9x3
2007 - 81st? = 27x3 we'll be right behind UDC

Finally I was surfing google news and there was an article from a newspaper in Calgary as in in Calgargy Canada talking about how bad the situation is. It didn't say anything new but jeez if even Canadians are commenting it's gotta be pretty bad.

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 2:01 PM | Report abuse

"One has survived the constant departure of coordinators and front office staff, made the playoffs 4 of the last 7 years and won a Super Bowl 4 years back."

JLC - The Bucs won the Super Bowl 4 years back. Did you mean 3 years back? That was the Pats. 2 years back? Pats again. Ohhh 5 years back? That was the Pats too. Now if you mean 6 years ago, the Ravens did win then, yeah. If you need my source for this information it is having a pulse and being vaguely aware of the contest you refer to as the "Super Bowl."

I'd compare the Ravens to the Redskins All-time, but that would be a diservice to the Redskins as I would have to throw their 3 championships out of the equation due to the fact that the Ravens didn't exist and their fans only thought they were Redskins and/or Cowboys fans for life.

Interesting on Champ, still I'd like to hear it for a writer that covers the Skins. What is Mark Maske doing? Whatever it is, I'd be willing to bet he isn't watching Fox Soccer Channel and having some kip.

Posted by: The Redskins have needed a GM since Casserly left (and even when he was here, frankly) and everbody | January 3, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"Vince Young seems to have been given a vote of confidence from Day 1."

True. Except for Kerry Collins who they traded for the day before the season and then started on Day 1. Details....

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 2:22 PM | Report abuse

According to this link, the Dolphins have more coaches ('assistants') that we do.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/dolphins/2007-01-03-alabama-saban_x.htm

Also, googling "Randy Mueller" (current Fins GM), I this this may be the guy who should be the new Skins GM: egolessness of Cerrato, but talent-hawking eyes among the best in the league.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 2:34 PM | Report abuse

dcsween - I saw that too about the Dolphins staff, I couldn't believe it. Maybe Huizenga is the Danny Snyder of the AFC. Certainly some interesting parallels.

By the way I think it is fascinating to see all these teams doing some coaching changes/firings. I mean JAX basically blew up the whole staff.

Wonder if we'll follow suit and do any changes? Guess we'll find out after Gibbs meets with Snyder this week.
Excellent that means I have a few more days to rant and rave like an idiot on the blog.

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Oops. I said "trade." Only the Redskins trade.

The Titans signed Collins on the cheap and didn't give up any draft picks. Stupid Titans. Cerrato should teach them a thing or two about player aquisition.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Oops. I said "trade." Only the Redskins trade.

The Titans signed Collins on the cheap and didn't give up any draft picks. Stupid Titans. Cerrato should teach them a thing or two about player aquisition.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 3, 2007 2:57 PM | Report abuse

sfskin, that layoff in Jacksonville left me puzzled too. Seems like a LOT of coaches to lose. Its going to have to be weird for them next season, starting with so many replacement coaches. I wonder whether there weren't two 'camps' of coaches there ... and one of the camps got fired.

Here, I've said I think we should have the top coaches (JG, GG and Al) fulfill their contracts. I don't know what sort of contract Danny Smith has, but special teams was one of the actual bright spots this season, plus he's a spark plug, so I hope they keep him.

The only other coach I care about is Bill Lazor, the first year QB coach. The reason to keep him is the same reason to keep Saunders -- continuity and stability for the QB of the future who has not had the same offensive coordinator since high school. Lazor seems to spend way more time with JC than Musgrave ever spent with QBs, plus, from Big Media reports, he sounds like a work horse. There NEEDS to be someone to question/sharpen/challenge Saunders' thought process other than Gibbs. A newish QB coach is in the best position (probably a better position than Gibbs) to do that. I think Saunders needs to write up a new playbook ... from scratch. The fabled 700 page playbook was written for Trent Green, a line that used to include Willie Roaf, Larry Johnson, [the RB formerly known as] Priest Holmes, and Tony Gonzalez. He's got to break it down to the table of contents and start over.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 3:08 PM | Report abuse

sfskin, i hate you for hatin on double G. c'mon! where else you gonna find a lovable arrogant like that? the dude has SUCH a chip on his shoulder. dang dude! he needs that episode of looking into the mirror and saying "i know i'm good enough...."

seriously if dale lindsey is still here next season i'm going to turn on him too.

but shawn springs did say nice stuff about him.

that takes us back to who the deepthroat was...
bram weinstein said he knows who it is and it isn't AA.
and jason of this blog says it's definitely not shawn springs.

btw, are we in preseason of our REAL season?

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Also, googling "Randy Mueller" (current Fins GM), I this this may be the guy who should be the new Skins GM: egolessness of Cerrato, but talent-hawking eyes among the best in the league.

Yes. I believe he's the guy that chose Culpepper over Brees. He'd definitely fit in here.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 3, 2007 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Weighing in a little bit late.

I'm with Dealer and (I think?) Diddy. I like Les Carpenter's writing style. He delivers truth without shoving it down your throat.

I don't think it was a puff piece as much as a very subtle character assassination.

Also, about the Portis interview, I don't know what to think. Sometimes I think he just talks and doesn't even know what's coming out of his mouth. First he says Gibbs and Saunders aren't talking, then he changes his mind. Then he rips on Archuleta, then backs off of it. Also, when he listed core redskins, he said Rock, Santana, Thrash, Patten, Royal.

What about Salavea? What about CGriffin? What about Chris Samuels? Then he goes and disses Dockery and says the man falls down every time he pulls. Shoot, it may be true, but that doesn't mean Derrick appreciates you saying that on the radio about him...

On the other hand, you do have to give him credit for speaking his mind, even if he is crazy.

Posted by: Lavar Walt Clark | January 3, 2007 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Then he goes and disses Dockery and says the man falls down every time he pulls.

Lavar Walt Clark I don't remember him making that statement.

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Learned Hand, the Big Media reports are pretty clear that Saban was the one behind Culpepper over Brees (and that b/c of Saban's micromanagement style, the GM position became marginalized).

On replacing Dale Lindsay (which I'm for), I wonder what Grilliams hanging files of coaches has to say about the LB coach (Duffner) at Jacksonville. For all of its sucking on offense this year (and inconsistency in beating good teams and losing to bad ones), Jacksonville had the #2 defense this year and was awesome last year. The Jags site has some impressive credentials on this guy. On a related note, did it strike anybody as odd that Grilliams keeps files on every COACH in the league?

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 3:24 PM | Report abuse

You used to have a single top back, now you absolutely have to have a top back and a top and a half back. It's the way it is, with both the brutality of the game and sophistication of defenses.

i'll tell you right now i think my favorite person, steve spurrier, was way ahead of his times. cuz i predict in the near future there will be a need to for 2 QB's. That way you're really dictating to the defense. One would be Mike Vick type the other tom brady type. it would scare the crap out of the D. they would have to study two QB styles.

sometimes i even amaze myself. BRILLIANT!

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Back to Portis-Betts and having your position coaches helping you adapt your playbook ...

THIS is what can and should happen next year http://www.profootballhof.com/history/story.jsp?story_id=2272, esp. b/c one of these two is currently the Skins RB coach.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Learned Hand, the Big Media reports are pretty clear that Saban was the one behind Culpepper over Brees (and that b/c of Saban's micromanagement style, the GM position became marginalized).

He'd still fit in b/c that's what's going to happen to any GM here as long as JJG and the Danny are in charge.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 3, 2007 3:30 PM | Report abuse

also mike nolan fired his DEFENSIVE coordinator. WTF?! it's like norv firing his offensive coordinator. basically he's saying since i can't fire myself i'm going to fire my defensive style/scheme. what a joke this dude is. i'm so glad we hung 55 on his a$$ last year.

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Quoting Norm Chow on Vince Young

"Besides the physical skills, it's the will and the strength inside, the 'it' factor that a quarterback either has or doesn't have," Chow said. "Obviously, he has it. The quickness in which he won the team over and the quickness in which he became the leader, the guy everybody looked up to, that was special."

Dealer, you said almost EXACTLY the same thing ~1 week ago on this blog. Fess up; you're really Norm Chow and that's why you're hating on Al Saunders ;)

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFan | January 3, 2007 3:34 PM | Report abuse

btw, that history about two backs with over 1K yards in a season ... that just happened for again this season for the fourth time in NFL history. Vick topped 1000 in the last game (Warrick Dunn was the other +1000 yard back). Well, at least it was another 'back'.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 3:41 PM | Report abuse

thanks adam! yes, i'm norm chow. seriously that dude's smart. can you imagine vince young(rookie year) with weird Al? "HORROR!"

just for that i give you another insider (moulder style) nugget. the best thing the iggles have going for them is the NO Saints. everyone's focusing on the Saints. cuz if the saints weren't the story the iggles would be the story. and that hasn't gone too well for them recently(when they're the story). so here's to JJ's defense and andy reid's belt! no one works harder!

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

To get back to something Old School said this morning (January 3, 2007 10:35 AM)...

I think many of us, myself included, are letting our frustration with Gregg and the defense cloud our judgement. Contrary to what I thought at the beginning of the season, this defensive roster is very mediocre. Especially once the injuries set in, we didn't have a chance.

Mike Rumph? Kenny Wright? Troy Vincent? Vernon Fox? You're in trouble when you have to rely on any of these guys for downfield coverage.

Warrick Holdman is garbage who becomes even more of a liability when you have a stud like Marcus on the other side. People are going to run at Holdman 24 hrs a day. Even Lamar regressed this season.

The D-line is okay, provided Andre Carter actually woke up at the end of the season. Still, P.Daniels ain't gettin it done and part of the reason the Giants got out to a big lead was that we couldn't pressure Little Manning at all.

I have a lot of problems with Gregg Williams, but I think the biggest problem with this team is talent. We have a very expensive defensive roster and not a lot to show for it.

We need LB help immediately. We need good secondary depth or we might as well just forfit the 2007 season.

Posted by: Clinton Hill | January 3, 2007 3:44 PM | Report abuse

in response to CE (January 3, 2007 11:28 AM):

I was also at the Giants game and I saw Arch get on the field for a few real defensive downs. The thing that I don't understand is this: if Archuletta is horrible in coverage but is a good tackler, why isn't he in on obvious rushing downs? On the Giants last 2-3 posessions they ran almost every down, simply trying to run out the clock. So why was matador Vernon Fox in the game instead of Arch?

It makes no sense to me.

Posted by: Clinton Hill | January 3, 2007 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Clinton Hill as in Clinton Hill Brooklyn?

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 3, 2007 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Indeed.

Posted by: Clinton Hill | January 3, 2007 4:10 PM | Report abuse

I used to live on Cambridge Place back in the day. G-train to Clinton/Washington Ave.

Posted by: Learned Hand | January 3, 2007 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Fist day back to work sucks! I thought it would never end.

Listen to Coach John T show. I have lost some respect for Doc Walker. He is calling CP out a little about the Captian thing. Said he agrees with B Mitch. (not sure what B had to say) But damn that is weak brother. You had him there if you had a problem be a man and say it to him. Not wait until he is not with you and make a comment. Smack in the back of the head for that one.

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 4:22 PM | Report abuse

G-train standUP!

Posted by: Clinton Hill | January 3, 2007 4:25 PM | Report abuse

jm220,

I'm listening to 980 as well and they are all bugging me today. Too much is being made of this CP thing. Yesterday it was interesting. Today they have rehashed it to death! I used to love Doc Walker but he has been irrational as of late.

BMitch agreed with CP on some levels but not on others. He said that Clinton does have more clout to go to Gibbs than others because his salary is so high....he is not concerned about being cut. Many of the other players do not have that luxury. He also said that as much as they are getting paid, whining about practice and OTAs is pretty ridiculous (I have to agree with BMitch on this one). He said the when he played for the Skins he was the Captain because he was a true leader.

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Is it just me or has Doc gotten more out of having played for the Skins than any one man deserves?

Posted by: Not a Fan of Doc | January 3, 2007 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Lisa. How is the workouts coming along?

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 4:39 PM | Report abuse

btw, are we in preseason of our REAL season?

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 03:15 PM


Dealer- LMAO!

Posted by: 4-12 | January 3, 2007 4:41 PM | Report abuse

dealer asked above, "are we in the preseason of our REAL season?"

The answer is a resounding YES. No massive decisions yet, no earth-shattering announcements, nobody fired, nobody cut. Yet.

I still think Snyder is going to demand that Gibbs do something really big. His frustration after this season has to be even greater than ours.

Oh, the winds of change, they are a-blowin. We just have to wait and see what they bring. Not a GM, I'm afraid.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Well I've read all the post on the puff piece on Manboobs. My question is this and why wasn't it asked, if you are student of Buddy Ryans 46 Defense where was that aggressive nature. Hey I know that say you live by the blitz you die by the blitz but if Eli Manning falls backward when being blitzed then you keep blitzing to he beats you. Now the arguement will be we didn't have the cover people, if you blitz dummy you don't have to cover that long.
I wanted to also address those that are coming down on the Reaper, cut it out if you played in a secondary with Speedbump Rumph, Double-Move and Foxhole then you would take bad angles and go for fakes because you have cover for these characters. Give my man some help back there and get some linebackers who can actually fight off a block and make the tackle and then talk but until then layoff the Reaper.

Posted by: Don Redskin | January 3, 2007 4:45 PM | Report abuse

If we can't get a GM. Can we at least get double G out of town? lol

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 4:46 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what is wrong with Doc - until recently I really respected his opinion but he has become as out of control as everyone else.

jm220, I'm still trying the heavy weights...had to rush my workout today since I had a semi-crisis at work. I emailed Jason asking for your email but he did not respond back to me.

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Age-related hearing loss, a common problem among the elderly, might be related to inadequate levels of folic acid, European researchers report.

The researchers found that people who took a folic acid supplement had less decline in hearing low-frequency sounds over time, compared with people who didn't take the supplement.

Posted by: loco mullin | January 3, 2007 4:47 PM | Report abuse

loco mullin, speak up, i can't hear you, what's that your saying about farting ashes?

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 4:51 PM | Report abuse

We going to get into some wild card weekend predictions or what? Heck yes we are.

Indy over KC - Colts save their inevitable collapse for bigger stage next weekend.

Pats over Jets - after spending the entire game with all cameras fixed on the 'feuding' head coaches, a sideline reporter mentions as an aside that a football game is being played, and the Pats are winning.

Philly over Jints - Tiki loses a critical fumble, for old times' sake, and the Iggles romp.

Cowgirls over Shehawks - there are no winners in this game.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Nate, not sure whether we should hijack Maske for this one, but I'm thinking LJ can keep BBM off the field. With no spread, I'm taking KC. Also, Shehawks at home is LOUD, plus Parcell's just told Big Media that Romo is over-confident. I'm with Seattle.

I'm with you on Philly, but mostly b/c Garcia is on fire and Gnats' D is on injured reserve, plus LBM really is a little bowel movement in big games.

Mangini beat his mentor in Foxboro, and has gotten alot smarter in his rookie coaching season. He is, however, still a rookie and Bellichek is Bellichek, so I'm with you on the Pats too.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 4:59 PM | Report abuse

"Oh, the winds of change, they are a-blowin. We just have to wait and see what they bring."

The offseason is promising to be more exciting than the reg. season itself.

Posted by: thor | January 3, 2007 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

I have to agree with you about Indy over KC but only because they are playing at home....LJ will run all over the Colts but they still win. Pats definitely over the Jets. Philly over the Giants. This one KILLS me but I am picking Dallas over the Seahawks simply because they are due a win (not in my opinion but in the way the ball bounces) and have been crucified in the media this week. Every time a team is crucified in the press they come back the next weekend on fire (witness the Giants/Skins game last weekend).

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

I have to agree with you about Indy over KC but only because they are playing at home....LJ will run all over the Colts but they still win. Pats definitely over the Jets. Philly over the Giants. This one KILLS me but I am picking Dallas over the Seahawks simply because they are due a win (not in my opinion but in the way the ball bounces) and have been crucified in the media this week. Every time a team is crucified in the press they come back the next weekend on fire (witness the Giants/Skins game last weekend).

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 5:04 PM | Report abuse

1)I wonder if Grilliams is going to get the axe, stay, or leave on his own to pursue something else
2)I have finally decided to end my season long hiatus that stemmed from a bet with Boofer and join my extremely depressed bretheren to brave the cold, cold world known as the Redskins offseason
3)How many hours into free agency until we sign Nate Clements and Byron Leftwich?
4)How many hours after the playoffs end do we try to hire Russ Grimm as our new "Assistant Offensive Line Associate Related Coordinator?"

Posted by: Macaca Johnson | January 3, 2007 5:05 PM | Report abuse

I emailed Jason asking for your email but he did not respond back to me.

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 04:47 PM


uh-oh....i've heard stories that start like this, some of them have very interesting and x-rated endings.

Posted by: match.com | January 3, 2007 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Jason et al,

Your reliance on unnamed sources as the primary content of your article series this week is disappointing.

Your work is nothing more than slanderous gossip and falls below the journalistic standards of the Washington Post.

That is all,


Posted by: Glenn | January 3, 2007 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Okay, so does anyone care that Jason La Canfora held a contest, picked 3 finalists, gave the 3 finalists to Chris Cooley to decide the winner, created a thred to let everyone know who was the winner and what the prize was, then NEVER delivered on that prize?

It's been 22 weeks, and Jason La Canfora now has ZERO credibility. He ignores emails and ignores posts about it. It's not the prize that I want so badly, it's the principle. I've had to ask for this prize about a dozen separate times and each time I've either gotten no response, or the lame response La Canfora gives is "I'm waiting on Chris Cooley to give it back to me". Give me a break. Just ask the guy! I have no way of asking Chris Cooley for it myself, but you do!

It's really quite ridiculous that it's come to this... me having to call La Canfora out like this on the blog. I didn't want to have to do this, but he ignores all of my other requests so I don't really have any other choice.

Maybe "Jason's editor" will see this and bug him. Or maybe Jason has other colleagues that read this blog and will see this and say to Jason "you know what, you really should either get the prize from Chris Cooley, or give this guy something else."

Just not cool La Canfora. Not cool at all.

Posted by: Barno | January 3, 2007 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Whether it be G to the double G coaching the D to the double move, or friggin Marvin comes back, it seems pretty obvious that we need to get some personell in there, huh? I mean, that Tiki Torch has been insane. I'm really gonna miss him...

NOPE

Posted by: Pub Golf | January 3, 2007 5:14 PM | Report abuse

uh-oh....i've heard stories that start like this, some of them have very interesting and x-rated endings.

Posted by: match.com | January 3, 2007 05:09 PM

It's my work e mail address and big brother and FCC watches so it won't be anything X rated. And when it comes to working out I am a totally focus person. Last not least I don't have to come onto a blog to get a date my friend.

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Barno, do you realize how incredibly funny it is to the rest of us, your undelivered prize situation is? I understand where you're coming from, but it's h-i-larious to see you pop up periodically with progressively more upset comments to J-La.

If I weren't afraid on some level that you might become angry stalker guy I would be enjoying this even more.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 5:18 PM | Report abuse

I hear ya Nate. Hey jm220- can you give JLaC a big smack to the back of the head....thanks bra....feel better now Barno?

Posted by: 4-12 | January 3, 2007 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Macaca J,

1. Grilliams will stay b/c he will not take an offer to coach the Cards, Fins, or Falcons. They won't match his current salary. He won't get cut b/c Snyder won't cough up the cool mill that GG got into his contract (right of first refusal to be HC).

2. You actually know Boofer?

3. Clements will be signed immediately upon the start of free agency. Leftwich will not be pursued b/c Gibbs still loves Brunell and Saunders still loves Collins. Leftwich is an inch shorter than Jason and doesn't scramble (and hasn't started into the playbook, so he's a year behind).

4. Steelers will sign Russ Grimm as HC, but are waiting out of respect for Cowher's moment of retirement announcement glory. [Wisenhutt will be the Falcons coach.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 5:22 PM | Report abuse

I've been a single blog girl this year - this one so please let me know if y'all are romping on Maske during the playoffs.

This weekend I think its Pats over Jets because Pats have been there and Jets haven't and Jets have won through some luck.
I pick Philly over NY because if they can shut down Tiki enough and rattle LBM which is really pretty easy it could get ugly. On the other hand Philly has that magical ability to choke.
Indy over KC only if they can score on their first 2-3 possessions otherwise BBM will be sipping Gatorade on the sidelines. Still KC also has history of chokefests.
SEA v DALLAS is a tough call. I think Lisa is right about Dallas having a win due them. I think basically it comes down to SEA playing mistake-free ball and Alexander having a whale of a game. Romo has made some colossal blunders in the last few games and now he's rattled and suddenly it's the playoffs and it's in SEA.

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 5:25 PM | Report abuse

If I weren't afraid on some level that you might become angry stalker guy I would be enjoying this even more.

LMAO! Nate that is just wrong brother. Good thing I put down my hot tea or I may be buying a new computer.

4-12 if everyone wants me to give him one I will. But hey he stood us up in Nola and we didn't give him one. Can't we just give him a break? I enjoy the blog and after the slap he might not come back. lol

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 5:25 PM | Report abuse

good points all, jm220. maybe we can all pitch in a buck and buy Barno a beer at a game next year.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 3, 2007 5:27 PM | Report abuse

on second thought, with those prices at fedex, we'll need more than a $1 each...

Posted by: 4-12 | January 3, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Barno, I feel your pain. For all the other OB's out here, like P Diddy and such, do yall remember the email Jason posted on the blog from that crazy dude who loved the word PENULTIMATE. Well, that crazy dude was me. And he suggested a competition that was never fulfilled, placing obscure old british words in articles to have us find them and get a prize. Oh yea, and he never worked another "penultimate" into one of his stories since. I am a JLaC fan, but I don't know whether it be the stress he is under writing all of these huge pieces on the "lost season" every day or what, but JLaC has changed since the blog was gloriously born in the middle of summer. Everyone take a good look back at those posts, from August and early September to see what the "glory days of the blog" where all about. Maybe it is just all of the stress, but I think we would all like to see global blog movement back to those times. Jason, we miss you. Come back to us. These recent posts have been like Gibbs' second tenure compared to the summer entries. And Barno, keep asking til you get the prize, my friend. Never give up hope!

Posted by: Macaca Johnson | January 3, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Barno, wasn't the Cooley thing about a CD?

If its that great of a CD, why not just go out and get a new one ... playing it back for people with the excellent back story about how Chris Cooley ripped off your original copy?

I'm imagining the conversation btwn Jason and Cooley. Jason, "Chris, can I get that disk back from you, you know, then one I loaned you 22 weeks ago?" Cooley, "Huh? Your name is what again?" [Which is a false response because he remembers the CD, but also remembers getting barbecue sauce on it before it became unplayable.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Or maybe we could just buy Barno a Bentley. It'd be cheaper...

Posted by: MV Dame | January 3, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

dcsween - I think you may be right about dubG except I'm not sure anyone is going to offer him an HC and if they do possibly his football arrogance is enough that'll he'll go just to prove everyone how great he is.

If he does go then I'll cohost his goodbye party with jm. We need to invent a drink called "smack on the back of the head".

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 5:33 PM | Report abuse

...and no dcsween, i dont know Boofer personally, but we made a bet on one of the blogs in early october. He won, and I was banished for the rest of the season. I am a man of my words

Posted by: Macaca Johnson | January 3, 2007 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Macaca J, I'm totally with you on the penultimate-TomKat stuff. Recently, this blog took a mutinous turn for "panties and jock strap" begging for Jason to post something. Folks need to step up with guest blogs so that Jason can rest up, and restore himself to his early season enthusiasms.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Barno

When we all get together for drinks. The first drink will be on me and I will give JLC a little forearm. Does that make it better? Remember he also have a little one now.

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Macaca Johnson, I am glad that (1) you are back, (2) you are a man of your word, (3) one of your words was penultimate, and (4) you do not, in fact, have anything more than a blog association with BOOFER.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 5:40 PM | Report abuse

"Nate,

I have to agree with you about Indy over KC but only because they are playing at home....LJ will run all over the Colts but they still win. Lisa"

Nate, this is why Big Al was free to leave KC last year. You don't need a 700-page playbook when you are playing the Colts. All you need is:

Larry Johnson, sweep left;
Larry Johnson, sweep right;
Larry Johnson, off-tackle left;
Larry Johnson, off-tackle right; and
Larry Johnson, up the middle.

It should be just like his old days at Penn State.

Should be an interesting game, however, with lots of offense on both sides. Wonder what the under/over is?

My prediction: KC 41, Colts 34.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 3, 2007 5:41 PM | Report abuse

dcsween

I thought Nate panties post were funny.I guess it just me oh well.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 3, 2007 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Don't get me wrong, I loved the panties/jock strap posts. Was that Nate? I thought someone else started it.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Ocho-Ocho

(Sorry, Nate and Lisa)


Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Macaca, way to keep your word. And from a relative newcomer, welcome back. We've got to pull together through the offseason because goodness knows we can't count on J-La for consistency (sorry, Barno).

I had a dream last night in which, no kidding, I heard the news that Al Saunders had been fired. It was so vivid that I checked the news first thing this morning to see if it had really happened.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Hey peeploggers give J-La a break. I imagine his actual job of writing stories and stuff as well as spending time with his family might occaisonally get in the way of the blog.

Remember that
1) WaPo pays him not us
2) Despite my continous conviction to the contrary I am in fact not the center of the universe and neither is this blog
3) We are a depraved group of people - we are delightful in our depravity but I imagine it can get scary

Let's not eat our young just the Skins.

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 5:47 PM | Report abuse

I didn't start the panties/jockstrap thing. I think Megskin was involved. But I did carry it on way beyond any humor value. We were killing time until J-La came back from his hiatus.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Hey peeploggers give J-La a break. I imagine his actual job of writing stories and stuff as well as spending time with his family might occaisonally get in the way of the blog.

Remember that
1) WaPo pays him not us
2) Despite my continous conviction to the contrary I am in fact not the center of the universe and neither is this blog
3) We are a depraved group of people - we are delightful in our depravity but I imagine it can get scary

Let's not eat our young just the Skins.

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 5:50 PM | Report abuse

Nate, 370 posts on this thread. You think we might be killing time now?

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 5:51 PM | Report abuse

"do we try to hire Russ Grimm as our new "Assistant Offensive Line Associate Related Coordinator?"

Posted by: Macaca Johnson | January 3, 2007 05:05 PM

My numerous unnamed sources as well as my esteemed crystal ball tell me that there is basically zero chance that Grimm will leave Pittsburgh for anything less than a Head Coach position. His chances of upward mobility are far better by remaining there rather than coming to DC.

Besides, having both Bugel and Grimm on the same staff would be terminally redundant, since they are both primarily O-Line coaches. That would be overkill, even for the Skins and Dan "I've never met a coach I didn't hire" Snyder.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Sorry for the double post. The WaPo server is hiccuping.

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 5:52 PM | Report abuse

sween, Ocho, the Chiefs are going to be the fashionable pick all week precisely for the reasons you cite. Larry Johnson will get plenty against that woeful D. But I like the Colts outscoring them in the home dome.

The Greek tragedy of BBM calls for his playoff collapses to occur on a bigger stage than wild card weekend. On the other hand, if the Colts lost and Dungy were fired, that would be one more job opening for which Grilliams could potentially be a candidate.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Barno:

It's no consolation, but just keep telling yourself, "It's not about the money - it's about winning".

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 6:03 PM | Report abuse

"Bob Saunders: Asst. Coach - Special Projects"


Wow. This is actually a real coach on the 'Skins. Any idea if he's 700-pages kid?

Posted by: 4-12 | January 3, 2007 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Bob Saunders looks after Gibbs' grandbabies when they come to visit the Park.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 6:06 PM | Report abuse

2) Despite my continous conviction to the contrary I am in fact not the center of the universe and neither is this blog

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 05:47 PM

That statement is incorrect, Grasshopper. This blog is the center of the Universe and you are right in the middle of it.


Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 6:07 PM | Report abuse

I noticed that jock strap, panties, or other various undergarmnets had been mentioned in several previous posts, so I suggested we make it a blaw. Megskin agreed with me (first and only time, I believe) :-)

Lisa, can I pay you NOT to pick Dallas this week. Every time you said Dallas was going to pull it out last week, something hideous happened! How much?

Posted by: SMACK | January 3, 2007 6:08 PM | Report abuse

sfskin, for all the non-enjoyment of part III in the WaPo series, one of the sourced bits is something that seems totally credible to me:

>>> " ... Last winter, with several head coaching jobs open around the league, Donahoe said he received five calls from teams that had Williams among their top two or three candidates. Donahoe figured a few more might phone again this winter. This season's Redskins defense won't change that, he said. Several other general managers agreed.

"One year can't make a difference," said Kansas City Chiefs President Carl Peterson, who thinks Williams will be a head coach again. "Sometimes it's all image."

I think plenty of other teams would welcome Grilliams as a savior. Nate's idea about the Colts isn't that far off. I just don't think there are that many teams that would be willing to match or beat his current contract, other than another team in the NFC East where the markets are huge. Actually, now that I think about it, I was also surprised about the ongoing love between Pierce and Grilliams. And NO ONE is loving Coughlin right now, even if the Gnats do well in the post-season.

Hmmm... GG in the Meadowlands? THAT would be bad, except for the fact that he doesn't know Saunders' playbook either.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 6:08 PM | Report abuse

It puzzles me that some people think Williams will be offered a HC position after our dismal season. Last season there were 10 teams after him and quite frankly, I was terrified he would leave. But that was after we had 2 great defensive seasons. This one...not good. However, I just heard the owner of the Dolphins (he is such a cute, sweet little man) say he will pay any price to a coach that can win. Nick Saban, shame on you for hurting that sweet little man. I wanted to hug him.

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Lisa, to see the script of the Williams' job interview, see today's WaPo. His point is that this season was not his fault. See also OldSchool post earlier today) for how Grilliams can blame it on (1) injured and/or (2) old players.

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 6:14 PM | Report abuse

3) We are a depraved group of people - we are delightful in our depravity but I imagine it can get scary

Let's not eat our young just the Skins.
sfskin Post of the day. lmao

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 6:23 PM | Report abuse

We can rest assured that Grilliams has his resume buffed and polished (the 2006 section just lists the player injuries, mentioning nothing of the results) and has his super-orderly files of assistant coaches ready in case any other team comes calling. And I don't think his salary is that big of a deal outside of a few penny-pinchers like Phoenix.

What I can't guess is whether egomaniac Grilliams would take less money to be a HC somewhere else right now, or would stick around here and keep his hand in as Gibbs' successor. Dudes like Grilliams LOVE being the MAN. But I bet he wants some sort of assurance it's not a terrible job, as Phoenix or Oakland would be.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 6:25 PM | Report abuse

"Nate's idea about the Colts isn't that far off. I just don't think there are that many teams that would be willing to match or beat his current contract, other than another team in the NFC East where the markets are huge."

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2007 06:08 PM

My guess is that after today's Saban/Alabama announcement, the starting pay for NFL head coaches will be increasing dramatically (if for no other reason than to keep the majority of schools from bidding on NFL coaches). In that light, Grilliams' current contract does not seem to be an impediment to him going elsewhere.

However, I cannot imagine him ending up with the Jints, since they see the Skins D twice every year close-up (and know how to counteract it. Besides, LaVar is there - that would be ugly, part 2.

Indy seems like a much better fit for Grilliams, if only because they are still begging for a defensive plan that works. Dungy has gathered the talent, much as he did in Tampa. Now Indy just needs someone with a plan to come in and utilize it. (Cue: Grilliams)

As for the Greek tragedy of BBM, Nate - LMAO!

P.S. Helpful blog posting hint #1: Only press "Submit" once, rgardless of how long it takes to process.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Is there ANY way we can get Pierce, Clark, and even Smoot back? Yes, I'm a bit delirious....

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 6:27 PM | Report abuse

"Is there ANY way we can get Pierce, Clark, and even Smoot back? Yes, I'm a bit delirious....

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 06:27 PM

Smoot - yes, Vikings will probably cut him.

Clark - maybe, Steelers might cut him.

Pierce - probably not until he is a free agent again or until the Jints draft someone who can win the position.


Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 6:34 PM | Report abuse

"We can rest assured that Grilliams has his resume buffed and polished"

Nate,

I believe that the Carpenter piece on Grilliams (part 3) was the new Cover Letter for said resume.

Only time will tell - one can hope!

P.S. Maybe JM can drive down to Ashburn and provide a little extra incentive for Grilliams to accept ANY offer that arrives on his doorstep.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 6:39 PM | Report abuse

we should really think about t-shirts with something about a "smack to the back of the head"

I thikn those would sell and jm220 could afford more than just one round ;-)

Getting sucked slowly back into my day job so won't be able to hang like over the h-days, but will try to keep up w/ who's getting smacked in the back of the head. . .

BTW, I hear LaRon Landry is playing in some meaningless game tonight. May be worth checking out to see if he's worht the 6th pick. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 3, 2007 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Lisa, now is the time for happy delirium. Because the Skins haven't made any moves yet, by definition they haven't made any bad moves.

They also haven't NOT cut players we want cut, not fired coaches we want fired, and not brought in ex-Skins we'd love to see back, as in your list.

Now is the time to dream big, baby! And ignore the fact that even a decent doggone effort in a few of our lost games would have us playing this weekend...

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 6:41 PM | Report abuse

What is that echo?

Hey, did everyone leave or what???

Geez, I guess it is just me here at the center of the Universe now . . .

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Well, Gibbs just answered my question about Pierce :-) In the latest installment of the Comcast/Kelli Johnson interview with Gibbs, Kelli asked him about Antonio Pierce's remark that the Skins preferred to bring in outside players rather than keep their own. It was easy to tell this remark pissed him off (am I allowed to say that?). Gibbs said that he was on the phone with Pierce to the bitter end and that Pierce CHOSE to go to NY. His expression was indicative of "what the hell is Pierce doing talking about our organization now when he chose to leave?"

Tomorrow night Kelli is talking with Gibbs about the GM thing.

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Yeah and the other reason Pierce left was because they weren't going to pay him the same amount they paid Marcus Washington the year before.

Still sucks that we lost him. He was the QB on defense. That's what we are missing on D.

Posted by: calebt17 | January 3, 2007 6:56 PM | Report abuse

P.S. Maybe JM can drive down to Ashburn and provide a little extra incentive for Grilliams to accept ANY offer that arrives on his doorstep.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 06:39 PM

Sound like a plan to me. I still with you Ocho.

Yes Lisa you can say that. A little fight is always good for the soul. lol

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 7:00 PM | Report abuse

one last one from out here 8K above mean sea level. . .

Cannot imagine not having CP as part of the skins and I would be nowhere near as hopeful for next year as I am now if it were not for CP. That dude is going to romp big time if he is healthy and if he is not, no one will be rushing him on the field with the way betts played out the year. either way, i'd be picking him high in a fantasy draft next year.

also, As far as I can tell, Denver is still looking to replace CP. For those of you who say that RB is easy to replace, tell me why Denver has gone through Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Ron Dayne, Mike Bell and Mo Clarrett and still don't have a consistent running back since CP left. . .

They've aready blown 2 draft picks and still no consistent RB to speak of and Tatum bell has tiki-like fumbelitis and mike bell has done well, but no one is breaking those runs that CP broke so they will probably do it again this year. . .

all in all, this 5-11 season felt nothing like Spurier's 5-11 season. This one felt more like our 6-10 season to me. . .

got go to see what the young Landry is up to in that bowl game. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 3, 2007 7:03 PM | Report abuse

how much did pierce get from the jints?

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 3, 2007 7:07 PM | Report abuse

OK OK (conjuring up the spirit of SallieMae)

re: my previous endorsement of LaMarr Woodley, senior DE at Michigan . . .

While Woodley looks like a solid, every down-type of Defensive End, he may be just a placeholder at the point of attack in the NFL. While he made a couple of decent plays in the Rose Bowl, the USC O-Line didn't seem to have much trouble containing him. Credit USC and the pro-style sets they use, but every scout in the NFL saw that game.

I expect Woodley to be dropping in the ratings; using a #6 pick on him might be a poor choice. (Picking him as a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder seems more sensible.)

Based on other games I've seen so far, there don't seem to be any DE's who are very impressive who will be in the upcoming draft. Trading down seems to be the only logical choice.

Let's hope the Gibbs/Snyder summit this week will embrace logic as a critical issue.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Well, what a bummer. Not only did the Skins lose but I had to watch VT lose at the same time. And then there were the 10 TCCLs that I had to do. Damn.

I did notice that when Betts was running in the open field that when he was about to be tackled that he did wrap his arms around the ball.

The offense will be fine next year with a whole offseason/preseason with JC behind the helm. As Saunders said, JC has no real connection with his wr's. I think that Jason will be awesome next year.

What we REALLY need is a couple good linebackers. I saw it in the huge gaps just behind the defensive line. The way they didn't completely plug up the holes in the line or slow Tiki enough for the safeties to be able to tackle him. They were just all crammed up together with the lineman on the line and as soon as the runner would break through, the whole field was clear. LINEBACKERS, LINEBACKERS, LINEBACKERS. Crap, when is Antonio Pierce's contract running out?

As for next year, remember the Jets went from 4-12 to 10-6 this year. And as for the boycott, how could one not go the games? And of course, we need to support real core Redskins like Cooley, JC, Marcus, etc. so wearing their jerseys are cool and make a statement. And watching the games on TV costs nothing and gives nothing directly to Snyder.

Btw, a possible hangover cure. (I wouldn't know 'cause I drink enough to get drunk but not enough to get hangovers.) A few drops of soy sauce in hot water.

Speaking of which I discovered a fantastic beer. JW Dundee's Honey Brown Lager. Fantastico!

Posted by: charlie | January 3, 2007 7:09 PM | Report abuse

JLaC:

have you ever had the chance to cover a team that won the SB? If so, just wondering how our faves compare to that team. was some of this drama also going on, but overshadowed by the wins?

just curious. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 3, 2007 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Though I guess I did somehow miss the Betts fumble. I was in the bathroom? Keeping my eye on the VT game?

Posted by: charlie | January 3, 2007 7:11 PM | Report abuse

also, was it Boz that said we needed to get VanderJerk when we got swissham? I'm kind of glad we did get swissham. at this point looking like a very shrewd move.

Also remember a lot of early flack re: the punter and am wondering if that is still the case. Whoever said we needed a new punter was really not right. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 3, 2007 7:20 PM | Report abuse

as long as we're keeping score. . .

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | January 3, 2007 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Clinton is going to be the NFL Network's correspondent for the Giants/Eagles game. CP thinks the Eagles will win.

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 7:27 PM | Report abuse

The Greek tragedy of BBM calls for his playoff collapses to occur on a bigger stage than wild card weekend. On the other hand, if the Colts lost and Dungy were fired, that would be one more job opening for which Grilliams could potentially be a candidate.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | January 3, 2007 05:54 PM

dealer - you ARE brilliant

But Nate you're a GENIUS! I love Dungy and I don't want him to get pushed out again but if Indy lays a poopy again in the playoffs he may just have to go. So then what is Indy's main problem - defense! (Mind you Dungy a d guy but whatever)
So they need to find someone who'll fix the D since BBM pretty much thinks the O is his. Da dah - Williams! He'll go cause he figures hey Indy proven winner and I'll get an SB in my first year just like Gruden at TB.
It's too good. It's too neat. But now I have something to dream about for a couple of weeks.
Thanks Nate!

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs said that he was on the phone with Pierce to the bitter end and that Pierce CHOSE to go to NY. His expression was indicative of "what the hell is Pierce doing talking about our organization now when he chose to leave?"

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 06:49 PM

Ummm, I seem to remember that the reason they were on the phone until the bitter end was because Pierce was asking the Redskins if they would match the Jints' offer. Maybe JLaC can verify or correct this.

In any case,if Gibbs had really wanted to keep Pierce, Snyder's wallet would have opened magically, as it always seems to do when a particular player is highly coveted by the Redskins. So what if it was the same or more than Marcus Washington? How do you rip out the heart of the defense over a few dollars, and then deliver Fort Knox to Arch Deluxe? The lack of logic is staggering here. Numerous companies have failed in this country in the wake of decisions like these.

Gibbs has proven many times that he is a great coach, but as a "personnel guy", he has failed far too many times in the past to be entrusted with the responsibility for even one second longer. Memory sometimes fails me, but the same kind of personnel errors also began happening in the later years of Gibbs - Mach 1, after Beathard had departed and Charlie Casserly was playing the Vinny Cerrato role.

Every vehement public defense of a bad personnel or financial decision should be another nail in the coffin of Gibbs' personnel career, and another reminder to Dan Snyder that the only action he should be taking currently is interviewing GM candidates.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 7:30 PM | Report abuse

The Danny may want to go back and look at the end of Gibbs 1.0 when it comes to personnel.

Didn't Gibbs draft Shuler and D. Howard? Or is my memory playing tricks on me.

Also don't forget this team has at least a 10 year history on pushing guys out the door. Remember Stephen Davis? What about Wychek? Trent Green?
And biggest most outrageous move of all time was Monk. Art Monk should NEVER have been playing in anything but burgundy and gold and the fact that he ended up in green and silver is nearly as bad as blue and silver.
I know this wasn't the Danny in fact I don't think he would have ever allowed it. My memory is weak on these years so maybe I'm getting morally outraged incorrectly but it sure is fun.

Posted by: sfskin | January 3, 2007 7:38 PM | Report abuse

"If so, just wondering how our faves compare to that team. was some of this drama also going on, but overshadowed by the wins?"

I think JLaC was about 15 at the time, so it was a little before his time to cover Gibbs - Mach 1.

However, the '91 Redskins season was crazy, since the team won their first 11 games, if I remember correctly. The Skins mania in DC was unbelievable, as it had only been a few years since the previous SB win (in 87-88).

The problematic personnel issues that were occurring at the time were basically hidden by the voluminous fumes and smoke of the Redskins Bandwagon that Tony Kornheiser towed out of the garage early in the season. (TK and Wilbon did much of the Skins coverage then.) And no one cared, because any personnel problems were too small to worry about. (Gibbs had chosen Rypien over Humphries to start at QB, for example, and Humphries was bummed, but Rypien performed well. End of story.)

The Skins were an offensive juggernaut, with Rypien throwing long to Clark, Monk and company, and Byner, et. al., running crazy thru big Hog-created holes. (The Skins set the record that year, since-broken, for most points scored.) The defense led by D. Green was solid, Lohmiller was still kicking straight then, and special teams in general were dependable as well. It was probably as good a team as any of the legend teams (Packers, 49ers, etc), so there wasn't much to complain about.

It also happened just before the onset of the free agency/salary cap system that exists today, which is why it is unlikely to happen again. The Redskins had depth because J.K. Cooke could afford to pay and stash away players on the bench who could be starters on other teams. If there was a special secret to Gibbs - Mach 1, it was their ability to keep 30 "core Redskins" on the roster, year after year, regardless of the cost. And a little luck with good trades and Plan B free agent pick-ups (USFL or WFL demise - can't remember which) didn't hurt either.

After that Super Bowl win in Minneapolis, free agency started, the cost of player acquisition went crazy quickly, the Redskins didn't want to pay Rypien $1 million/year, most of the draft choices were gone . . . and Gibbs hit the door and headed to NASCAR. (short, semi-comical summary)

Moral of the story: A team that is winning gets to hide lots of little secrets; a team that is winning big gets to hide lots of ugliness.

Posted by: Ocho-Ocho | January 3, 2007 8:03 PM | Report abuse

One other thing Gibbs said in his interview is that the Skins have kept most of their players - more so than other teams in the league.

As to Pierce, Clark, Smoot, etc., it's my personal theory that they saw how much others within the organization were making and wanted the same - as well they should. The Skins organization did not offer what they wanted so the players walked. Then the Skins had to go out and get other players and wound up actually paying the newcomers more. Sad. It should also be noted that all of these players were on defense. Williams thought he could just replace our core guys - lock and load.

Posted by: Lisa | January 3, 2007 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one that loved the openning music to the LSU game? Now I am ready to go hit someone. lol

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 8:21 PM | Report abuse

sfskin,

I believe Joe drafted Desmond Howard, but Norv drafted Heath as the next Troy Aikmen.

Posted by: Mark | January 3, 2007 8:23 PM | Report abuse

funny shti guys...nate, you bmaf you're insane. that barno bit was funny. i wonder if barno's really serious.

but i don't even know what happened...probly pre-blowup(of this blog) right?

okay so it's decided i AM brilliant. so what do brilliant people do?

just read 8K's thingie about boz being wrong about swisshamNcheese so i think we should do a list of things WE got WRONG this year...i'll go first with my list of "My Bads"

1. megSkin is NOT a psycho...
2. swisshamNcheese turned out to be a GOOD decision
3. brandon lloyd is NOT good actually sucks! not only in his production but his attitude.
4. it was RIGHT of gibbs to call plays whenever the Fudge he felt like it. to save us from weird al.
5. Al was RIGHT in the handling of LJ in KC (what a fukcing baby!)
6. Skins LOST to the left for dead falcons and twice left for dead jints (i thought they'd win)

did i forget something?

now your turn

laron landry just missed a tackle! :)

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 8:38 PM | Report abuse

laron landry just missed a tackle! :)

Yes Dealer he did. I thought he was going to lay the wood.

Hell with Quinn. I want the Raiders to draft the kid from LSU. Did you just see that pass? Come on LSU blow ND out!!!

Posted by: jm220 | January 3, 2007 8:46 PM | Report abuse

one thing though...i'm sick of hearing antonio pierce thing. to me JC excorcised those demons when AP whiffed on JC while JC got the first down. good players leave. let's just move on. i know he's exhiibit A of bad personnel moves but i'm just sick of hearing it. good teams and orgs recover from stuff like that. but this isn't a good org. end of story.

interesting thing i heard on XXX espn and i actually wanted to respond to Nate or someone whomever said that we can go 11-5 next year. and i agree. and i was saying the same thing when skins were 2-2 and thought that they were going to win the superbowl this year. it didn't seem right if they had.

john riggins put that feeling perfectly he said so what if this team goes 11-5...that's a sign of a good(maybe lucky) team but not a good organization and as a fan i don't give a shti about a one year playoff fluke team.

I WANT A GOOD ORGANIZATION GOSH DARN IT!

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 8:50 PM | Report abuse

new post

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 8:51 PM | Report abuse

They had every chance to match the G-men offer for Pierce, a the preceeding nine months to negotiate exlusively with him.
No excuse. They belw it and did not want to pay him what the market said he was worth.
Their loss.

Posted by: Jason La Canfora | January 3, 2007 8:59 PM | Report abuse

They had every chance to match the G-men offer for Pierce, a the preceeding nine months to negotiate exlusively with him.

are you telling me there're actually people on here that think that they wanted to keep Peirce? and Clark for that matter?

Pierce was dying to be here and so was Clark.

but like i said pats/a good org recover from these kinda moves all the time. if this was a good org gibbs wouldn't still be friggin talking and defending it.

Posted by: dealer | January 3, 2007 9:16 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: yupzs sducyfo | January 12, 2007 9:20 AM | Report abuse

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