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An 0-1 Start for Redskins Is in the Books

Back in the spring, when the gods delivered the NFL schedule, Redskins fans took a deep breath and wondered why the commissioner hates Jim Zorn. Starting with three NFC East games on the road out of the first five seemed daunting then. After last night, it seems even more so with New Orleans, everyone's boutique pick this year, coming into FedEx for the home opener a week from Sunday.

What, exactly, went wrong in the Awfullands? Sally Jenkins looks at the Zorn identity, Mike Wise examines the arc of QBs Eli Manning and Jason Campbell and just what advice EM has for JC. Jason La Canfora analyzes the role of the defense in the season-opening loss.


For more on the game, there's:

Dan Steinberg's report;
Les Carpenter's view,,
and Jason Reid talks to Chris Samuels about the death of a friend last weekend.

Zorn will talk to Jason La Canfora and Jason Reid later today as preparation for the Saints' arrival begins.

By Cindy Boren  |  September 5, 2008; 7:28 AM ET
 
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Next: Lines Still Are Key for Skins

Comments

Doom! Pain! Woe!
Can't wait 'till next week!

Posted by: cload & daggar | September 5, 2008 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Just one game....first game last year we beat the 1-15 Dolphins in OT. The ship will right itself.

Posted by: Fushezzi | September 5, 2008 7:54 AM | Report abuse

I'm going to repost dcsween's smart comments from last night (even though he thinks Super Bowl and Jim Zorn are one word ... we kid because we're sleep-deprived!):

The only people who read this will be ... well, few will read this.

No reason to panic. The Skins kicked the crap out of the Giants for the final three quarters of that game.

It is VERY, VERY hard to overcome a home crowd and a team celebrating, for the first time since it happened, in the home arena, the win of a Superbowl. Very hard.

After a gut punching touchdown RUN by the mouth breathing LBM, the Skins D arose (and Blache pulled out his blitz boook) and PUNISHED Mr. Next Born after Peyton, with great abandon. He was removed from the game though many punishing hits ... which were legal because they would have been sacks if he hadn't thrown ... which he also did badly under the circumstances. [Manning's partner in danger, the most dangerous WR in the NFL, Plexico Burress, coming onto the field with the feeling associated with signing an $11M contract, performed like you would hope someone who you just paid $11M would perform, also performed very well. Good job, Michigan State guy.]

SO MANY defensive "big lays" made by individual players ... primarily Smoot, who gets the game ball, but also including the ripening of Chris Wilson (who has picked up his upward career trajectory after having his limits tested -- and bested -- in the preseason) ... and the Skins sacking D, thank you very much, Mr. Carter. Jason Taylor, who very uglily spraining his knee, took a warrior's share of a punishing by Gilbride (or whoever it is that calling those runs to the outside right rushing plays). The Skins have regained the NFL necessity of "QB pressure" mojo. [Next week, Smoot out, Springs in. Carlos had an AWESOME game.]

Jason Campbell suffered only a "statistical" barf bag on completions, but not always his fault. Plus, he was finding the rhythm. [Note: Jimzorn had a great game of momentum management after the 1st quarter.] Most importantly, Jason Campbell took minimal wear and tear ... even for the sack loss yardage. Sounds worse than it is ... but better than it looked ... not a cause for alarm ... BECAUSE ...

We kicked the crap out of them for the final three quarters. Coughlin got a bad* case of Gibbs' conservative "sit on the lead" syndrome. Once he gets comfortable with it, it will spell his doom. Jimzorn has rabachs. I will not discuss his clock management in the 4th quarter, but with the enthusiasm of the possibilities left on the field, I cannot second guess any of his choices. It was exciting football again. Jason Campbell found his groove. Portis reported to duty as called ... and delivered. [Every one of the gamers -- Portis, Cooley, Santana, and especially Randel El -- SJKed up on what should have and could have been what they get paid for.] This was a totally winnable game ... the offensive coordination mind meld called everything right ... it was individual player's concentration. This offseason, every one of those guys needs to focus on centering (except Rabach, who also had a great night, because he knows how to center the ball as well).

Heyer? The man is the man in pass blocking. Rush blocking? Results may vary. Portis could not run right ... which had not so much to do with Portis. Did I mention Jason Campbell never took a sack that hurt him (like the half dozen that Eli took).

Officiating was even. BOTH Kendall and Antonio Pierce should have been ejected for unsportsmanlike face-masking, but the refs said "fine" after Kendall got the headbutt with his helmet on Pierce's fact when Pierce's helmet popped off. They were square; that's football (though Pierce's concentration was completely rattled ... leading to a big penalty a few plays later).

Smoot's leg. Friendly fire. Chris Horton accidentally gives him a kidney punch with his knee? Seems like the Skins' injuries have been too much friendly fire. Wasn't Jansen hurt last year b/c another lineman rolled over him?] Game well played, Frederick. The interference call moving the ball to the Skins' 1 was bogus ... or, at least, debatable. Force outs. Hmph.

The Skins have a punter. Special teams won the net yardage on change of possession game. McDougle should be fined by the league for the roughness on the punter. It was a bogus and intentional hit directly on the kicker's hamstring. UNcool.

I dunno. I enjoyed it. Tough crowd in the first quarter, but the Skins won the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters ... three 7-0. Low scores. NFC East.

You all saw it. Should this have been a guest post?


* For us, not them.

Posted by: dcsween | September 4, 2008 11:30 PM

Posted by: Cindy | September 5, 2008 7:56 AM | Report abuse

This just in. Springs stepped out of his house and a leaf hit his thigh. He will be out 3-4 weeks or maybe longer.

Posted by: Kevin | September 5, 2008 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Okay, we pretty much sucked last night. Jason Taylor looked like a sieve against the run game, our zone coverage was always one or two steps away from the Giants' recievers, our man to man coverage corners can't catch the ball even when it's thrown directly to them, and that's just on defense.

I missed most of the third quarter and part of the fourth, but, seeing that the score hadn't changed, decided not to go back and watch. Offensively, the first play showed just how far this offense, or at least this quarterback, has to go. I've been drinking the kool-aid on JC for three years, and, after Wise's article, am tempted to refill my glass, but that first play was pretty much unforgiveable. The line developed a perfect pocket, and the tight end (pretty sure it was Yoder) was wide open in the middle of the field. Had Jason been able to feel the pocket, he would have stepped forward, seen Yoder, and made a modest completion for five or six yards at least. Instead, he was locked on to Randle El and Santana Moss who were swimming in a sea of blue, and JC's instincts took him straight into the arms of Justin Tuck. JC is like a fighter pilot who's locked in on a target: "I'VE GOT TONE!" and that's all he sees. I don't care what system he's in - after a lifetime of playing quarterback, he should know how to scan the field when something's not open.

So that's where the realist in me sits. Nevertheless, the fan in me is still pissed off about that 3rd down completion to Santana Moss that came up short. The NFL needs to issue an apology on this one, because they got it completely wrong. Santana Moss HAD NOT CAUGHT THE BALL when he was touched. After he caught the ball, he was not touched, and the play should have stayed live. That was a touchdown, my friends, no two ways about it. With that touchdown, the final drive to score becomes much more reasonable since they only need a field goal. I don't think they deserved to win, but football can be a game of improbable breaks, and that was a break that they should have had.

Posted by: crashinghero | September 5, 2008 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Wow, while that performance last night was pretty inept, this place is RIPE today.

ONE GAME. Thats all that it was, ONE GAME. Gibbs started out 0-5 need I remind anyone. What say we give Zorn a little more time to get this figured out??

Yes they need work, I don't think anyone would say they don't, but everyone take a deep breath, find a happy place, and relax.

Rogers and Smoot need to go in front of the juggs machine, for an hour a day. They need to have a better rotation of players, Wilson needs to play more, Betts needs to play more, James needs to play more. JC needs to develop that clock in his head as to when to throw the ball.

My favorite lines yesterday were from 2 of the biggest frauds who write for this paper:

JLA - "Basically the entire draft class is inactive". Really?? Or is the reality that you out and out LIE in order to paint the team in a bad light. Don't let facts get in your way, because Devin Thomas had a catch last night, but how could that be because the entire draft class is inactive?? I'm confused??

Sally Jenkins - "glaring needs in a lineman-rich draft" If she could name the linemen who were available when the Redskins were picking, I'd eat my own liver. She's the biggest fraud this paper employs. Actually I take that back, the Redskins should have drafted Jake Long, oh wait he was already gone. Stupid Redskins....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Eat your own liver? ewww!

2008 Draft Picks that played in the opener:
Horton
Tryon
Thomas
Brooks
Brooks
Brooks
Brooks
Brooks

Those who didn't:
Kelly, Moore (hurt)
Jackson (inactive -- practice squad here I come)
Davis, Brennan, Rinehart (inactive)

Posted by: cload & daggar | September 5, 2008 8:12 AM | Report abuse

Start chompin on your liver, Greggy, cause I must inform you that Sallie J was dead on right. For starters Atlanta drafted Sam Jackson with the pick that was originally ours. Next, instead of taking a whirl on Devin Thomas, we could have added beef and speed with Chilo Rachal or Mike Pollak.

Enjoy the liverwurst bud.

Posted by: Bud Jackson | September 5, 2008 8:13 AM | Report abuse

c&d, yeah, maybe my kidney too.

I just can't stand people who attempt to pile on after the fact, people who ignore the TRUTH, and just report what they want to report.

Sally needs to bring some facts with her before she shoots her mouth off, like stating what players were available when the Redskins made their picks, who play offensive line, or defensive line.

Instead its just easier to critize things from her ivory tower, she being so much smarter than the rest of us.

She's already stated pretty much that Zorn is a puppet for Snyder, after ONE GAME!!! She's already DAMNED his entire coaching career after ONE GAME.

I need that job. Seriously, what ever happened to journalistic integrity.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 8:18 AM | Report abuse

sorry Greg, press critisism after last night seems a bit hollow...you want to shut up those people up it has to be on the field. Evidence in the Snyder years that this team isnt a mess is in short supply until they stop laying eggs like that...

I am convinced Zorn wasn't playing to win, almost treating it like a pre-season game, figuring that he might as well let his offense work the stock plays until they got them right.

I am not all doom and gloom, and even though defense was rag doll in opening quarter they played well, held SB team to 16 points on the road, you should be in the game.

But their is a lot I saw that gives me the agita...

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Good Morning Fellow Skins Fans,

My observations?
Jason Taylor had no push, no drive, no quickness. He was a total NON-FACTOR. He had no business out there! Your games started streak? This is a team sport!

Jason Campbell?
Big scared looking eyes.
He was shook up; no confidence; knew he could not do it

Jim Zorn:
Revealed he has no confidence in Jason Campbell whatsoever.
No one on the team does.
Everyone knows the offense was so much more crisp and productive w/ Todd Collins last year!!

Run, Run, Run; we can't let Jason lose this game for us mentality.

However, no hurry up offense when down 16-7?
Where were the other coaches who are supposed to be in Zorn's ear?
This was embarrassing.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | September 5, 2008 8:26 AM | Report abuse

did anyone else see Vinny's snyder slomo lip movement image? He was all bug eyed and shocked...the camera held there for what seemed like 2 hours as his eyes buldged and he rubbed his temples...

Janso has been mad annoying lately, but he is right...Vinny gets all the credit/blame going forward...

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 8:27 AM | Report abuse

DISORGANIZED!!! Thats what they looked like under Zorn Hey Coach did it ever dawn on you that a sense of urgency might be needed at some point in the game, what about the two minute drill? Does that ring a bell? Again Jason looked confused and out of synch with his receivers. Jason Taylor: Welcome to the NFC East,it seemed like you were more worried about your streak of consecutive starts than playing at full strength. The defense was probably tired, since they spent a lot of time on the field Punting game was just average but somewhat consistent O line play, not good they got pushed around way too much Heyer was just ok replacing Jansen. Zorn needs to figure this out in a hurry before he loses this team and his job.

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | September 5, 2008 8:27 AM | Report abuse

I don't want to be a pessimist, I really don't.

But watching our offense the last 5 weeks, and knowing the Saints are coming to town next Sunday?

Can our defense hold that Saints offense to 17 points?
I don't think so either.
And I don't see our offense scoring 17.

After last night if we are going to win games this year, they will have to be 17-14, 14-13, 13-10 type of games.

And how often is that going to occur in the NFL?

Sorry.
And truly hope I am dead wrong.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | September 5, 2008 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Why Can't we run Mike Sellers like the Giants run Brandon Jacobs?
Why is Joe Gibbs still calling the plays from his garage in North Carolina?

Posted by: ChooChooDaTrain | September 5, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Our corners suck a__. Every number 1 wideout will have a field day on us.

Im a huge skins fan but the intensity they showed was bleak, if they cant get up for the opening game and nationally televised at that- what will?

Why do you run the ball with 3 min left when you are down by 2 scores?

Posted by: jason | September 5, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Bud, do a little research pal.

Atlanta when they made the pick, it was considered a REACH. Sam Jackson was largely considered a 2nd round pick, not to mention he's starting on an ATLANTA line, only because their line SUCKS.

Chilo Rachal is so DOMINANT that he's a 2nd string Guard on the 49ers line. And POllak, he's the same on the Indy line, a BACKUP. So there you go, had we drafted these guys, they could be on the bench just like they are now. Good call...next time don't bring that weak @ss shti up here....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

RR1,

It doesn't matter if Taylor is only 50 percent of his former best. It's still better than most anyone in the league and its just nice to have his leadership out there on the turf. Worth every penny in my view. Mark this down, Zorn was just ironing out some kinks in the first game and he will come out tossing the pigskin in game two, which we may even win. If us fans will just manage our expectations, the team will do its part over the long season. Be assured.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Who the hell are some of these people? And Greg, I've tried to remind people about JG's rather aspicious start but, alas, to no avail. I see that some people just come on here after the game to vent (I didn't know this before because I just found this blog about 3 weeks before the combine) and that's okay, I guess, just kind of annoying to hear all the doom and gloom. Yes, the game was ugly, but not as bad as some make it seem. It looked like the defense remembered that this is no longer pre season sometime in the second quarter. The offense needs to be run on no huddle ALWAYS. I've been saying this for 2 years. Don't give Jason the time to think about the play. He plays with much more rhythm and confidence when he has to react not think it through. Hope the O line picks it up a little. Portis is a beast, we need Springs back, good pressure on the QB, I'm glad we didn't cut Rock.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Cool down liver-man. Taken together, your posts totally contradict themselves. You haggled Sally for not supplying a name we should have drafted at OL. Well, I popped ol Sam Jackson on your screen in a millisecond. Now you come on here and say Jackson's only starting cause Atlanta's line is inferior. We'll welcome to your Redskins World 2008 buster. That exact same comment applies to our line, and would account for why Jackson would be starting here too. Come on, use the noggin.

Posted by: Bud Jackson | September 5, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

The Giants were unbeatable in the first half after thier super bowl celebration, but the 2nd half was encouraging for us. We held them scoreless and the defense did not look bad even without our best corner and our best safety had not played most of preseason. Giants had all preseason to fine tune an ofense they have been running for years and obviously we are still learning ours, painfully. Not giving up on JC, but i sure did like Colt's quick reads and ability to get the pass off. JC seems to thinking too much and not pulling the trigger, one notable quote from Zorn was about the routes run, maybe we can't blame it all on JC, the recievers may not be where they are supposed to be.

Posted by: Tappahannock | September 5, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

I am not a cliff jumper, but there is a good amount to be nervous about. The energy and lack of urgency on the Off was disturbing to say the least...a little to laid back WCO...

Agreed the cut Rock people look like complete morons....

But yeah long season...we fight another day...I never give up..fight fight fight for your team and all that whatever...

But can't say I am to confidant...

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Portis is a beast, we need Springs back, good pressure on the QB, I'm glad we didn't cut Rock.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 8:33 AM
*******************************************

Yes, I need to look at the positives.
And these may be the only two from last night.
Thanks for the reminder, I needed it.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | September 5, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Bud, so lets say they did draft Sam Baker, they now have Heyer, Baker, and Jansen to play ONE POSITION. How much sense would that have made? So again, had they done this, they would have had Heyer starting and their FIRST ROUND PICK on the bench. Good call...

Nice job ignoring the fact that Atlanta picking Baker in the first was considered a reach too.

Practice what you preach, and you use your noggin....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Can someone please explain to me why Santana Moss was "down" on that catch where he lost his helmet?? He hadn't officially caught the ball until well after the defender had touched him. What the #@!$???

Posted by: Pretzel Boy | September 5, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to figure this out in a hurry before he loses this team and his job.

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | September 5, 2008 8:27 AM

Gibbs 1.0 was 0-5 at the beginning of the 1981 season, his first as an NFL Head Coach. How did that work out for him?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

RR1,

It doesn't matter if Taylor is only 50 percent of his former best. It's still better than most anyone in the league and its just nice to have his leadership out there on the turf. Worth every penny in my view.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, maybe I am wrong.
I think JT gave us nothing and that Demetric Evans would have been alot better vs. the run too.

Now today and this week,JT will have to be recovering because he was clearly not ready. We need a pass rush vs. Drew Brees or that will really be a long day, you know?

Posted by: RedsklinRay1 | September 5, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

The comments regarding O-Line drafting are largely moot; common wisdom is that it takes 2+ seasons to truly develop such players.

Yeah, that game sucked. I'm not gonna lie. But lets face it, this team needs several more drafts to begin resemble a division champion roster, much less a championship one.

Is Cerrato good enough? Don't know. Is Zorn good enough? Don't know. We've only played ONE GAME.

Campbell needs better reads. Better reads come from experience within an offensive system. Unfortunately, we get new O-Coordinators every 1-2 years, making that experience impossible to get.

Campbell needs to do better, but I saw flashes of what could be. I'm not going to write this season off until its done; neither should anyone else.

Posted by: AppleScience | September 5, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Yes, Pretzel boy, we all saw it, but the official had already blew him down w/ an inadvertent whistle. Thus he let him catch the ball, but could not let him get up and run....

That would be an official's explanation.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | September 5, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Unbelievable! I've never sen so many comments trying to make chicken salad out of chicken%$#@

This team was absolutely flat. There was almost zero emotion. They looked beat coming out of the tunnel at the start of the game. Nobody on that team has emerged as a leader; one who can put that team on their back and inspire them to achieve more than they thought possible. That was their problem before ST's death, and it haunts them still. They have zero identity. Landry is now immortalized in NFL history as textbook footage of how to get run over by a bruising back. He'll be in clips for years to come. Hope he likes that kind of fame.

Face it friends. This is a lost franchise ever since Danny bought it for himself as a present. Remember nothing good comes from little fat rich kids. Never has; never will. The ridiculous coaching search after Gibbs retired was like a compass bearing telling us what direction the franchise was headed: South; far, far south. They're not an adjustment or two away. JC looks lost and foolish; he stands and stares with his mouth open like some slack-jawed yokel. He inspires nobody. Nobody on that team feels like with JC in the huddle, everything's gonna be alright. My advice is to find yourselves a nice college or high-school team to follow until Danny and Vinny are distant memories. Life is a lot more pleasant that way.

Posted by: 4th in the East | September 5, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Applesci, welcome and good points all around. You can't judge a draft for at least 2-3 years, but somehow had the Redskins drafted all OL, they would have won last night.

Had they done exactly that, drafted OL with their first 4 picks, today, Jenkins, and J-la would have jumped the fence and pulled out the, "you can't win with the receivers the Redskins have" card.

Sometimes things are so transparent....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4th in the East | September 5, 2008 8:55 AM

Face it, Friend - you're a moron.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Impressions:

First half was bad but second half was fine for a division away game.

Rookie head coach not kicking the FG was a bad call but it's his first game.

Smoot got picked on a bit but played well.

Landry is not ST, at least not yet. I can never think of a time when ST hit someone and fell backwards ever.

Rock > Mason-Put it to bed.

Let's not ever talk about Portis not being that good. I'll take that guy on my team any day. Only guy who seemed really #$%@ on offense. When they were getting dominated he got mad.

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse

"My advice is to find yourselves a nice college or high-school team to follow until Danny and Vinny are distant memories"

Why don't you follow your own advice and do us all a favor and get lost....

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

L Joe Gibbs
1981
26-10, Dallas
Begins his first stint by losing opening five games.

W Richie Petitbon
1993:35-16, Dallas
One of only four victories in lone season.

L Marty Schottenheimer
2001:30-3, Chargers
Blowout loss is one of five to start the year.

W Steve Spurrier
2002:31-23, Cardinals
Spurrier equals most points of year in opener.

W Joe Gibbs
2004:16-10, Bucs
Second stint starts with a win in Clinton Portis's Redskins debut.

L JIM ZORN
2008: Giants, 16-7
West Coast offense gets off to slow start.

Call me crazy but Zorn doesn't look like he's in bad company. Actually, going by history (and of course this means nothing) but it looks like a loss is the way to start.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

CAMPBELL IS A JOKE

Posted by: Collins | September 5, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

My advice is to find yourselves a nice college or high-school team to follow until Danny and Vinny are distant memories. Life is a lot more pleasant that way.

Posted by: 4th in the East | September 5, 2008 8:55 AM

My advice to you is to hang yourself.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Jim Zorn will be fine. He's still got a 3 mil mansion that he just bought in Great Falls to go home to.

Jason Campbell. Can we sit him on the bench already, and let a veteran like Todd give it a try?

Posted by: skins fan88 | September 5, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Thanks anonymous! Couldn't give one fact to refute my argument so you went right to the personal attack. You proved my point: can't defend the indefensible. I've pulled for this franchise since the '70's. Jerseys, jackets, shirts, tickets, everything Redsksins. But I refuse to drink any more of Danny's kool-aid. Under his ownership, this team is sad bordering on woeful. Chew on this: CP couldn't get a 100 yards when the G-men were allowing runs late in the game and the 'Skins were taking them up on it.

Nah; you folks go ahead and post about moral victories all you want, and how we beat them over the last 3 quarters. There's only one "w" that counts, and that's the one where the team with more points at the end wins. Ain't no playoff berth or Superbowl trophies awarded for "moral victories".

Posted by: 4th in the East | September 5, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Crazy idea


trade Portis? If this is a rebuilding year, we could get BIG value for him, and how many years can he go at this pace? I don't give it 3 years honestly. Could we get like, a 1st and 3rd or something for him?

and Portis is my dude, I don't know if I really want it to happen, but if we're rebuilding why not go all out. If we're looking at a 2-3 year rebuilding process, Portis won't be Portis in 3-4 years.

Same might be said for Santana....they both have pretty big value right now...

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Sometimes things are so transparent....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 8:56 AM

yes, like this team is not good. very transparent, for all to see, plain as day.

Posted by: jon | September 5, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, let's start Todd Collins and go 0-16. That's the ticket!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

This team is rebuilding. It's not going to be a fun process but you can't start calling for Zorn's head and Campbell to sit after one game. This is a minimum 2 year project. I think most in the Redskins organization know this but don't want to say it.

Posted by: etrod | September 5, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Ain't no playoff berth or Superbowl trophies awarded for "moral victories".

Posted by: 4th in the East | September 5, 2008 9:07 AM

Sorry, but you're still a moron.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Today serves to further reveal:

There are "fans" who get upset and jump ship.

There are fans who get upset, vent, hang around a while longer and then jump ship.

There are fans who get upset, vent, hang around, and are determined this is their team and they are not going anywhere.

Diehard Skins fan who gets upset and hates losing.
But I am not throwing in the towel regardless how bad it gets.

And yes, JC is playing himself out of any kind of good contract when it is time for his second. Everyone in the league knows it was TC who got this offense rolling last season.

If we want to keep him, it will be alot easier and more economical.

A frustrated, diehard 'Skins fan.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | September 5, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

"Washington will be 6-10 or 7-9 this season. Every year, I wonder (often on the Post forum) why the Redskins NEVER address quality and depth on the lines."


Well, today is your lucky day because I have the answer....quite simple really:

We don't have a respectable front office.

Posted by: isnadd | September 5, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

LOL at comparing Zorn to Gibbs 1.0.

Hey, I shot 130 at Augusta yesterday, but by next April, I'll be challenging Tiger at the Masters!

Posted by: Carl Williams | September 5, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Look at the bright side, if last night had been a Sunday night game and we all had to go to work on Monday morning...

As it stands, it's Friday. Not too bad.

Posted by: isnadd | September 5, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

I love our Defense! Banged up, people playing who, by all rights, should still be rehabbing after major knee surgery and they hold the champs to ONE TD.

Too bad they spent the whole night on the field while the offense tried to figure out how to get a first down... other than from the Giants personal fouls that is.

Posted by: Redskinrex | September 5, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Same old song and dance with the Skins. They look awful managing the clock (let's huddle up guys when we're down by 9 points with 4 minutes left in the game), a pathetic offense (7 points?), their corners are awful, specifically Carlos "I have the worst hands in the world" Rodgers, I mean really, how is this guy a professional athlete? He couldn't catch the ball if it was thrown underhand to him and not to mention he is always getting beat. Hopefully Springs will be back next week. JC looks too tentative and makes terrible reads. Receivers dropped too many balls, I thought that was the secondary's job? Zorn looks overwhelmed. And is it me but it seems like someone is always getting injured? But even with all of these issues, the Skins always seem to keep it close enough to keep us watching them. I can't wait for the next game, maybe the Skins will manage to score 9 points. Hail to Redskins!

Posted by: Lewy C | September 5, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

I feel bad for JC because of all the different offenses he's had to try and learn over the past 8 years. But that's the nature of the business and he wanted to be a part of it. You adapt or get run out of this league. And JC is on his way to being run out. I don't think he's a loser or a bum. He's a struggling QB who has occasional flashes of "wow" in him but overall he's cut from the cloth of Rodney Peete. But if he does nothing else, he's got to get over that open-mouth stare. It just doesn't inspire anybody to rally behind him.

Posted by: 4 | September 5, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Some people say that others are being too pessimistic, that this was only the first game.


They may be right. However some of us, such as myself, predicted gloom after the draft when our inept front office drafted three pass catchers instead of bolstering our O and D lines.

The league has our number - if you put pressure on Campbell he will not beat you. Much as was our fate during Spurrier's tenure...

Why will we not be any good this season or next? Easy answer... The lack of a running game and the inability to stop the run at the line of scrimmage. The lack of a running game means that we must keep more people back to block and our #2 and 3 receivers just do not scare anyone. If we do not stop the run at the line of scrimmage, our linbackers and secondary will be taking a lot of huge hits that will either result in an injury plagued season (I said at the beginning of th eyear that Fletcher was going to have a loooong season) or a season where our backers run out of steam 3/4 of the way into the season.


In order to win the NFC East, you must establish the run, and stop the run. Our drafting did nothing to help us where it was needed and our FO went out and spent on a DE that can't do anything but sprint around a tackle.

Also.... CP is, and has been, clearly over-rated for two seasons now. In his defense though... our O line is not up to snuff either.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | September 5, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

4 drives in a row the receivers failed to get to the sticks. All 3rd down completions followed by punts.

Posted by: 10 yards | September 5, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

and seriously, all the disses on Campbell are getting old. Criticize his abilities but stop insulting the way he talks. Yall are insulting the south you dart yankees. He talks completely normal, he isn't some "yokel".


Frigging yankees!!


/this post half-joking but seriously, leave it alone

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

I got bored watching this game because it felt a lot like the offensive futility at the outset of Gibbs II--you knew we couldn't really score (at least not enough to win). Biggest disappointment was Campbell--he truly looked lost and i expected much better from him by this point. He played in this system in college and Zorn is really keying into his inability to read the D and move to his check-downs. What the heck? And I know the G-men have a good rush but our o-line has to be a concern.

HATS OFF to the D for adjusting and fighting and holding the G-men scoreless for the 2nd half. It didn't feel like success as they had plenty of yards and drives but we got it done. With Springs not able to play---suddenly--that was a lot to deal with on gameday and it showed early. . especially on communication as several Giants were left basically uncovered. Eli made some bad throws and decisions but we did very well. Lastly, I hate to see us drop interceptions but several of those were really tough to make--look up and the ball is already hitting your hands. I was really pleased to see Rocky, Jason, Carlos all play and look like it is onward and upward from here for them---it showed a lot of character for them to play in this game. Carlos looked better than we have a right to expect of him at this point.

Posted by: Cookie | September 5, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Ain't no playoff berth or Superbowl trophies awarded for "moral victories".

Posted by: 4th in the East | September 5, 2008 9:07 AM

You're not very bright, are you?

The people who want to hang Zorn now after only 1 game in 2008 are the same kind of people who wanted to hang Joe Gibbs after games 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 of the 1981 season. Sorry you don't have perspective on your side - you'd feel better today.

So turn off your TV and keep working on that golf game of yours. There's still plenty of time to qualify for the 2009 Masters.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Truth, the cost of trading Portis, and/or Moss, would cause the team to have to cut 4-5 guys. His bonus would be accelerated onto this year's cap. Just not going to happen.

4th in the East, thanks for your resume, but go follow another team. Great you followed the team since the 70's, good for you, please either stop posting, stop your pissing and whining or start following another team.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

4th in the East allow me to respond to your post.

IT'S ONE GAME, ONE GAME!!!!

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

their corners are awful, specifically Carlos "I have the worst hands in the world" Rodgers, I mean really, how is this guy a professional athlete? He couldn't catch the ball if it was thrown underhand to him and not to mention he is always getting beat.

Posted by: Lewy C | September 5, 2008 9:14 AM

REPEAT AFTER ME: Cornerbacks don't get paid to catch the ball. If they could catch the ball reliably, they would be Wide Receivers.

Boy, some of you critical posters are really dumb. Never played the game, did you?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Truth,

I would guess that Portis might get you a 4th round pick and Moss a 5th or 6th. That's putting aside what Greg said which is correct. Basically you'd have to cut every person on the roster not already getting a signing bonus.

Anyway at this point Portis is the only guy I see busting his hump out there and getting angry when stuff goes wrong.

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

please either stop posting, stop your pissing and whining or start following another team.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 9:19 AM

Thanks there Greg. So all we can do up here is talk about how great the Redskins are, how awesome they looked in the game, and they won't lose again this year. Yeah, thanks for that, genius.

Posted by: Greg has all the answers | September 5, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Hello Skinz, hope your day is going well today.

You are right, it is one game.
But w/ JC it is a pattern we all saw last year, so in that sense, it is not just one game. So we can reason that we are not overly reacting to merely one game.

Actually the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | September 5, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Anonymous,

Find me a DC who says he doesn't pay his CB's to catch the ball and make interceptions. Just one, then we'll all stop with the Carlos "I've got hands of stone" Rogers comments. Until you find one (Don't waste your time as you won't find one) though we'll keep talking about it.

Posted by: Da Truef | September 5, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

"REPEAT AFTER ME: Cornerbacks don't get paid to catch the ball. If they could catch the ball reliably, they would be Wide Receivers.

Boy, some of you critical posters are really dumb. Never played the game, did you?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:22 AM "

I like Rogers, but you're wrong. At the NFL level, they ARE paid to catch the ball....

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Greg, one 4yd catch by Thomas on a 3rd and 6 hardly makes him 'active' does it? And as for 'who could they have picked?' both Kendall Langford and Philip Merling were available. Langford is now the starting LE and Merling is #2 on the depth chart at RE for Miami. You might say "it's only Miami", but you should see these guys playing, they are pretty good.

That said, seeing JT run through/past by Jacobs isn't surprising, Jacobs with Hedgecock in front of him will be doing that to a LOT of defenses this year. Notice they never brought Bradshaw on? The Gints played smashmouth all night because they knew it was their best chance of a win.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 5, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Hey Anonymous,

Last time I looked, one of the key stats for a CB was "interceptions"... Don't you have to catch the ball to do that?

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | September 5, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Wrong again, Truthy, but then not's a big surprise to anyone around here.

UGA Cheer of the Week: We're #2! We're #2!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Ray,

I wholeheartedly agree with you on JC. To this point he's shown me nothing and if he doesn't do it this year he aint gonna do it. Right now I don't want to fathom the "JC is bust" scenario as that would literally put me into a tailspin.

I hate Danvin and though geeze a first day OL/DL/DB selection would be nice right now.

I also thought Gee Grilliams HC would be nice right now.

I also though, gee I really hate JC in the WC offense.


Finally, it's disconcerting to me how few people on this blog have watched Animal House.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtP3whUbgZE

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Never did I suggest saying how great the team was. Those words never left my mouth.

What I did suggest was that based on your own advice of finding a HS, or college team to follow, you PRACTICE what you preach, and do just that.

RRay, thats a quote from the movie, Animal House.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Stone hands has been the book on double-move ever since he came in to the league. If he hasn't improved by now, he's not going to. I'm a little dissapointed in Smoot. In his 1st stint he made those types of catches but since he came back, he's dropped a lot of picks. Hopefully Springs can get healthy soon.

I don't see Breeze (sp?) making the kind of bone headed throws that Eli made last night so the DB's had better get on the ball for the next game.

Posted by: etrod | September 5, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

"Wrong again, Truthy, but then not's a big surprise to anyone around here.

UGA Cheer of the Week: We're #2! We're #2!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:29 AM "


Actually you're very wrong. Would you rather have a pass deflection or an interception? I'll take an interception. And let me ask you, why do they do drills in practice to practice catching the ball? Get over it. I like Rogers a lot and got no beef with him. One of his chances would've been a VERY tough pick to make. I'm just saying, secondary players ARE definitely 100% paid to catch the ball when put in the position to make a play.

Also, for the Portis/Santana trade thing, I was just throwing it out there. Portis is a workhorse and I love him. True Redskin period. That hit on the DE last night was just disgusting.

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

The only guy who looked ready to show up to play was Rock Cartwright.

Zorn/Campbell get an "F" in their first outing. I've seen alot of Redskins losing over the years, but last night I saw nothing, NOTHING that makes me think Campbell has a clue how to run this offense or that Zorn is capable of calling plays. Running a huddle offense and handoffs up the middle when you are down by 2 scores with 6 minutes left? Not even trying to throw downfield until there is 30 seconds left? How many times did Campbell throw short on third downs?

And once again it looks like this defense is incapable of getting off the field on 3rd downs. Remember last time that happened under GG, we ended up ranked 31st in the NFL in defense. The only thing that kept the score at 16 was that Eli played like Eli.

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

and I'm not sure why I'm not hearing more about Randle El. Dude was disappointing last night, TWO false starts on a WR? Ugh.

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

p1,

I have a hard time disagreeing with much you wrote. My only solace is that it was the first game under a new coach with a new system. No where to go but up???? Let's hope.

We hung in there with the World Champs in an away game after the Lombardi Trophy was presented to the fans. We did so looking horrible and not taking advantage of alot of turnover opportunities.

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse


This ain't 1981, alcoholic anonymous. Better turn your calendar to the 21st century. Check the franchise record since Danny bought the team.
The only real shot they have now is to sweep either the Cowboys or the Eagles to remain competitive in their division. They can't afford to go 3-3 in division play. 4 and 2 and they have an outside shot at a division title; better shot at a wildcard. But 3-3 in the division considering some of the other teams on their schedule is pretty much toast. I agree it is one game, but this is a continuation of what we saw against Carolina and Jacksonville. No real heart or emotion, lackluster offense, only occasional "D". I didn't notice any increase in intensity from pre-season to regular season.

Posted by: 4th in the East | September 5, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

RRay have you not seen Animal House?????

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

RC, the following statement, true or false:

"Basically, the draft class is not suiting up tonight"

No bullshti, just yes or no.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I'm going to throw this out there again: This team is rebuilding and it will take time.

I know we stunk up the field last night and will probably do so on many more occasions this season but benching Campbell would be the wrong thing to do. If he's playing like this in week 12 and showing no signs of imporovement it may be time to start thinking about a switch but hee needs a chance to get comfortable in this offense.

Todd Collins is even more deeply rooted in Al Saunders' offense and his learning curve is probably 10 times what JC's is. He is not the answer.

Posted by: etrod | September 5, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

sorry, dcsween. I just read the repost of your post and I couldn't disagree more. Maybe the defense can right their ship. Get a couple more breaks on those INTs. Learn how to tackle big backs (Landry).

The offense is clueless, and we did NOT "beat them up" for 3 quarters. We got mauled and manhandled at the line all night. The offense only moved the ball when the Giants went prevent at the end of the 2nd quarter and at the end of the game.

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Look on the bright side...

Oh wait, there is no bright side. Like anonymous said, we're squarely facing years of mediocrity. I can't speak for all you guys but it sure hurts to think about.

Math problem: if 60 percent of the Skins team needs replacing in one year and 24 percent of the remainder will only be very good for another two years, how many decades until we return to glory? Sorry folks I do not see this team as ever being built into a powerhouse contender. We've got more leaks than the Clinton White House.

Posted by: Mike Mildew | September 5, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

And as far as Merling, and Langford, again, its the same as the logic of picking up Rachal, and Pollak above. You pick those two defensive ends, and Merling is 2nd string behind Carter, and not for nothing but who can't he beat out to start?? Langford would be 2nd string behind Daniels. So help me out with this logic here?? What would have been the difference??

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

For those of you grasping onto hope by comparing Zorn's first game to Gibbs...

Remember who brought the talent in here in 1981 - Bobby Beathard, even in 1981 he was recognized as one of the finest GM's in the NFL.

Cerrato ain't Beathard and no one in the league has ever sought counsel from him.

The "First Game" comparisons do not hold water.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | September 5, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

LOL at comparing Zorn to Gibbs 1.0.

Hey, I shot 130 at Augusta yesterday, but by next April, I'll be challenging Tiger at the Masters!

Posted by: Carl Williams | September 5, 2008 9:12 AM

It's very easy to compare him to Gibbs 1.0 first game. You know how? They both had 1 GAME and they both lost. Moronovich.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Last night was horrible! We should have been blown out, but the Giants allowed us to linger. Needing 2 scores in the final 6 minutes I saw no urgency in the offense. There just was no energy or intensity in the Redskins players. We are in for a very long run of futility.

Posted by: Redskins Jim | September 5, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Skinz,

Yeah, we can only go up...or we could sit where we are at for a while and keep losing, eh?

I'm as big a Skins fan as anyone and want them to do well, but I don't remember the last time this offense looked as atrocious as it did last night. Not even under early Gibbs 2.0 with Mark Brunnell throwing it out of bounds every other play. They all just looked scared and unprepared.

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Wyatt,

Did Gibbs loose his first game Yes.

Dis Zorn yes

Comparison looks good to me.

Posted by: kmdp4 | September 5, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

This is a game we were supposed to lose. Even if everyone was healthy and we had the same offense as last year, we would have probably lost anyways. This was the Giant's day. For christs sakes we hardly win when we are at their house anyways. Why is everyone in dissaray over this loss. BIG DEAL!! Our defense played great with JT being hurt and Carlos/Rocky coming back. With Springs in there, Plax would not have been so open. Sure they gave up the points in the 1st half, but they adjusted and gave our offense a chance to win throughout the 2nd half. At least be content that our D is once again here to save our offense, just like last year. The offense will be better next game but we will still lose because unless we hit Brees, he is gonna carve us up with TDs. Time will tell and I can wait for results becuase WE HAVE A NEW HEAD COACH!!!!!! Everyone expects us to be amazing, but we have a learning curve. I'm sticking to 8-8.


GO REDSKINS!

Posted by: Burg w/ a U | September 5, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

It's very easy to compare him to Gibbs 1.0 first game. You know how? They both had 1 GAME and they both lost. Moronovich.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 9:45 AM
++++++++++++

You mean Zoronovich!

Posted by: Carl Williams | September 5, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

DCSweeny, that is some pollyanna siht right there....you enjoyed watching that game...I ain't ready to throw in the towel, but I didnt enjoy watching it!

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Looking at the box score :


Fletcher led the game for both teams with 17 total tackles (5 assisted). Second was Ross on the Giants with 8. Not saying much though really, our D was on the field too long, but Fletcher shows up every play, which is nothing new.

Jason Taylor had 2 tackles. He DID read that one screen very well and he had at least one rush on Eli that messed up the play. I saw a little too much of him last night though.

We had a better punting average by 1 yard. Don't know what that says.

Had 7 penalties for both teams, we had less yards. Doesn't say anything since our penalties were at much more inopportune times. Seriously, penalties killed us last night.

TOP 35:43 Giants, 24:17 Redskins. Don't need to say anything else.


Betts 1 rush, 0 yards. We need to run him more, period. I love Portis but freaking put both of 'em in the backfield (which they did a little of last night) and run misdirection. Do something with that talent.

Cooley 1 reception, 7 yards. Don't even remember it, must've been late in the 4th when my eyes were actually bleeding. And I apologize to whoever I disagreed with yesterday. Cooley actually CAN'T block. Dude can't even bump on the backside! Yoder?

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4 - If the comparison looks good to you, I am glad it warms your heart because clearly your head is not working.

You could have the second coming of Vince Lombardi and if he does not have the talent he still loses.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | September 5, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Damn I hate it when I'm right... sometimes.

I knew it would be all doom and gloom on here today. As I said last night, a bunch of front running d0chebaggery up here today, these same doomsayers will be the same praising Zorn, Cerrato and the rest when they win two in a row.

If you REALLY thought the Redskins were going to win last night, I'd advise you to quit freebasing. I understand being pissed off this morning, I really do. But some of you arseholes should be ashamed to call yourselves "fans".

Stop bringing up the mother f'n past already, mainly who was hired as coach (Zorn) and who we drafted (Cerrato & picks).

It's done already.


Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Jimmy Johnson lost to the Giants in his career. Therefore, Jim Zorn will win two Super Bowls.

Write it down.

Posted by: Sage Cooter Brown | September 5, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

The "First Game" comparisons do not hold water.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | September 5, 2008 9:44 AM

The comparison absolutely holds water when you consider the fact that the only reason the argument is being used is to say "He;s only had 1 game." You go ahead and jump ship after 1 game, please. That way I don't have to listen to your b!tching. You people that think you can judge a team after the first game of the season are pathetic. The Giants had their team judged after the first 10 quarters last year. This is football, anything can happen. This crap about "I told you so after the draft" is just that, CRAP. You don't know sh!t or you would be out there pickin 'em for a pro team. YOU'RE NOT. So your "I told you so" doesn't hold any water.

The only facts here are:
1) The team looked like sh!t last night and lost.

2) There were some positives.

3) This is the teams first game with a partially new system and a 1st time play caller.

4) There's at least 15 games left to prove us right or wrong.


Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Scamp,

Moronovich?

LOL.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Moronovich?

Played for the Raiders, right?

Posted by: etrod | September 5, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

That game was painful. Snyder is possibly one of the worst owners ever. He spends money but in a stupid way. We need a true GM.

If we are going to win this season we need to RUN PORTIS. But I do not know if our O-Line will be able to get enough push to give him the proper holes to run through.

We need a better pass rush. or a line who can stop the run better.

Until Snyder sells the team to somebody who is good, we will never have a great team.

Posted by: Chord | September 5, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

It's very easy to compare him to Gibbs 1.0 first game. You know how? They both had 1 GAME and they both lost. Moronovich.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 9:45 AM
++++++++++++

You mean Zoronovich!

Posted by: Carl Williams | September 5, 2008 9:47 AM

No, I mean you're an a$$bag.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Mike Mildew is right about it taking decades to get back to winning if we blow this team up.

I mean look at JVille and Carolina it took them 2 decades to reach their respective championship games. Wait decades=365 days right?

Posted by: Just sayzin is all... | September 5, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Clearly the Kool-Aid has been drunk. Being clear-headed and predicting a bad season for the Skins does not mean we do not love them.

What it does mean is that we can look at a team and take emotion out of the analysis; obviously some cannot do this.

Excellence begins at the top of any organization. If anyone wishes to make a case that Vinny and Danny are the class of NFL football FO talent - I'm listening...

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Greg:

I'm with you on that post (8:56am). As I always say, when a journalist poses as a truth-teller and says they are "just doing their job by being objective, and if people don't like it then I must be doing something right" they are doing what politicians do when their lips move: LYING. That is convenient camouflage for getting away with using their platform to pursue an agenda.

That being said, one can't blame the Post scribes for the product on the field. So long as that product manufactures lemons such as last night's debacle of a performance then the criticism - rightly - will follow.

It's only one game, but...

The offensive line looked exactly as it did in last year's playoff game out in Seattle: slow, unathletic, and utterly dominated. In fairness, we know Seattle and the Giants have very good D-lines, but so do many NFL teams. And part of the problem was the predictable play-calling (think 1st down dive plays up the middle to Portis). But their play will have to tighten up quickly (by Weeks 4 and 5 against Philly and Dallas) or this will be a very long season.

Then there is the QB. Jason Campbell is quickly closing in on the point where he either needs to step up, make plays in critical moments and lead this team, or he becomes another unsalvageable project. I still think he deserves more rope, but with each game he looks further and further away from becoming a good NFL QB. The 4th down pass to Betts was inexcusable. (One guarantee: before the Saints game J-LaC will have found a million and one ways to blame everyone else for Campbell's performance last night - particularly Joe Gibbs)

The play-calling - particularly on first downs in the final half of the 4th quarter - was highly questionable. So was the lack of urgency offensively. Clock management was a HUGE problem. All we can do is hope Zorn corrects these issues and grows with the job. But it certainly looked as if they were treating this as a preseason game, and there was no sense that we were playing to win offensively in the 4th quarter.

Posted by: Red Skinz | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

And I apologize to whoever I disagreed with yesterday. Cooley actually CAN'T block. Dude can't even bump on the backside! Yoder?

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 9:48 AM

Did you not see who Cooley was trying to block? Justin f'n Tuck! Cooley isn't a prototypical blocking TE, I made that point yesterday. But you can't ask him to line up against probably one of the top 10 DEs in the league and expect Tuck to be a non-factor.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Moronovich?

Played for the Raiders, right?

Posted by: etrod | September 5, 2008 9:53 AM

Yea, and posts here after losses as Carl Williams.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

We gave up 16 on the road and lost. A few plays made by the playmakers and we win. We have to find a way to move the ball and score points. Perhaps we need the D to score like the Bucs of old and have that manage-the-game/don't-blow-it/score-with-a-short-field offense. Unfortunately, right now, the skins' are what we thought they were. 15 more to go! 14-1

Posted by: Gregskins | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Jim,

Your "futility" talk sounds like Eeyore in a snow storm. Some of you supposed fans are so quick to punt this team away that it nearly makes me sick on my keyboard. Fellas, if you perceive a problem then offer a solution. Like somebody wrote, we fans need to "Riggins up" and start demanding answers, starting with Colt. Always, always keep in mind the tradition of the Hogs and Fun Bunch, Monk and Green, etc. When fans like Jim - who should be bleading the burgundy and gold - start whining like librarians in a power failure, then its no wonder this team has no fire in the gut. Quit slouching you negative sloths.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Truth, thats a good post. Agreed, Betts needs more involvement, and Cooley, lets just say that blocking is not his forte...he needs to be utilized more.

I thought that Sellers was MIA last night as well.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

"Yeah, let's start Todd Collins and go 0-16. That's the ticket!

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:08 AM "

Yeah, just like how Todd lost all the games he started last season.

Oh wait, Todd actually put the team on his back and won 4 games in a row to lead them to the playoffs.

How soon people forget.

I seriously think the WR's prefer TC throwing them the ball.

At least we know TC can read defenses.

Posted by: skins fan88 | September 5, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

We played horrible yet we kept them from getting anymore touchdowns. I think that was good on our part. We didn't get shutout or blown out either.

Defense...our corners were getting burned left and right on some plays. With Springs being out I was concerned, then when Smoot got hurt I felt we were doomed in that department. Jason Taylor, I didn't like him when he was in Miami and I don't like him now. He basically jogged his way to the goal trying to get Eli for that TD.

Offense...something just wasn't clicking. They need to get it clicking before it's too late. Way too many 3 and outs. Need to convert more on 3rd downs. They need to pick up the pace when we are down to 2 mins and some change. We've had that problem for a while now and I thought we would have addressed that. Jason needs consistancy in his play. This is an offense that needs to be here to stay. All this switching has got the boy behind in his learning. The running game was good. It wasn't the best but it was good for the most part. They need to use Cooley and Mike Sellers more. They are difference makers. Jason also needs to check down more to make sure he seems someone open or just throw the ball up and hope that a reciever is there to catch it.

special teams...I think we did good on special teams. Rock had that burst and I thought he was going for it. As long as we keep them back there we are good to go. Randel El should NOT be on punts because he does too much in that back field.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Sellers is only an effective player on special teams, and as a lead blocker for CP.

If Sellers was a 6-3, 225lb FB instead of being hyped at being 280lbs, nobody would be talking about him.

Posted by: skins fan88 | September 5, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

But you can't ask him to line up against probably one of the top 10 DEs in the league and expect Tuck to be a non-factor.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM


We can ask him to lineup against Tuck, and we did!

Posted by: Jim Zorn | September 5, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

someone needs to tell Zorn that Cooley can't block. The dude can catch just about everything thrown his way, but the dude can not block.

Posted by: tj | September 5, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Clearly the Kool-Aid has been drunk. Being clear-headed and predicting a bad season for the Skins does not mean we do not love them.

What it does mean is that we can look at a team and take emotion out of the analysis; obviously some cannot do this.

Excellence begins at the top of any organization. If anyone wishes to make a case that Vinny and Danny are the class of NFL football FO talent - I'm listening...

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM

There's not really any Kool Aid to be drunk. I can take the emotion out and say we looked horrible. But I also understand that people have the capacity to learn, and there's a learning curve here for the whole team. I don't think this is the end. I don't think we're going to win a Superbowl this year either. What I don't like is people coming on here and saying "Oh my God we're going to go 1-15 and we're never going to get any better." That's emotion too.

As far as the Snyderatto thing, I've not often defended them and I won't start now, but there are others involved with the team.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 5, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

No wise acre, omeone needs to tell Cooley that Zorn can't coach.

Posted by: Kilmer | September 5, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Then there is the QB. Jason Campbell is quickly closing in on the point where he either needs to step up, make plays in critical moments and lead this team, or he becomes another unsalvageable project.

Posted by: Red Skinz | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM

My dude, Campbell has faced this quandary since the end of last season. Not disagreeing with anything in your post though. In fact I agree with it all.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

but I don't remember the last time this offense looked as atrocious as it did last night. Not even under early Gibbs 2.0 with Mark Brunnell throwing it out of bounds every other play. They all just looked scared and unprepared.

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 9:47 AM

Ok now I disagree with just about everything you said. There was some time under Brunell where he looked just as bad. Only difference was he was on the downside and hopefully JC is on the upside.

I'm not sold on Zorn. I'm not sold on JC. I'm certainly not sold on the front office, salary cap and some of the contracts this team has on it's books.

All that I'm saying is that everyone needs to keep some perspective. I'll give Zorn and JC this season to do something. I can't judge the first game of a new era in a new offense and say that it's doomed for years of horror and mediocrity.

Some people on here are being Chicken Little.

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

And I'll post here after wins, too. I hope the best for Zorn, but...well, we'll see.

Posted by: Carl Williams | September 5, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

If only Billy McMullen and Marcus Mason were on the field last night...Ah, what could've been.

Another new offense to learn...it's gonna be a long, learning process [PROCESS!]. But damn if that didn't look like my 8 year-old-nephew's pee-wee team out there.

Channeling our man Old School...in the NFL, you're only as good as your QB. Right now, our QB isn't very good.

Posted by: 4-12 | September 5, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

scampbell1975 -

We may get better as a football team this year. Maybe. However we will never be a team that is mentioned as a powerhouse (like we were in the 80's) until we get different leadership at the top.

Get used to mediocre seasons with, maybe, a playoff appearence here and there.

A bad FO will sink a good coach - here or anywhere.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | September 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Skinz / Red Skinz not the same person.

Posted by: FYI | September 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

I'm with dcsween all the way. I guess it's a matter of what you were expecting to happen last night. 'Skins were the underdog, so most people expected them to lose. This makes six years in a row that the home team has won the Thursday night opener.

To me, a 16-7 loss to the defending champs was better than I was expecting. The defense came on stronger (despite losing Sean Springs who the Post labelled "The Glue of the Defense") and the offense came on weaker than I foresaw. But isn't that always the way in the NFL -- the defense is ahead of the offense at the beginning of the season?

And this year, we're running a new offense, one which took Hasselbeck two years to master. Not one game -- two years. I expect we'll see a lot more bad games after Joe Gibbs quit on us. But wasn't last night's game kind of like when Joe Gibbs started? Or when Marty Schottenheimer started?

As for draft criticisms based on one game, duh? Brooks came on after a bad start. Horton got some solid licks. Thomas made a catch after missing most of pre-season. Did anyone expect that the draft should give us first-game starters? Atlanta and Kansas City both got three starters out of the draft but that's a sign not of strength but of weaknesses -- their rosters were a mess.

Posted by: talent evaluator | September 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Campbell is a complete joke. He will never be a good NFL QB, I don't feel sorry for him learning a new Offense. He has done NOTHING for this Team, Give COllins the ball. if we go like 1-5 give it to Brennan for next year. Campbell needs to go. Not the future.

Posted by: greg | September 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

No bullshti, just yes or no.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 9:40 AM

Greg, I think JLaC gets away with it because he used the modifier "basically". He did NOT say "in it's entirety".

Your 2008 draft class is NOT a bust, the guys who got on were all lower round picks (I'm discounting the 1 or 2 plays Thomas was on for) which is actually pretty good, but the fact is your first 3 picks barely saw the field at all and that may continue for some time. You couldn't afford that luxury AND be competitive in your division this year.

Both Langford and Merling would have been rotational guys at worst for you this year, and Langford MIGHT have beaten out Daniels, but we'll never know because your front office had not intention of picking any linemen.

Not trying to inflame anything, just trying to call it as I see it. Catch you all later, gotta see a man about a job.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

First game under a rookie new coach with a new offensive scheme playing the defending Super Bowl champs on their home field. On opening night.

Add to that a topflight defensive unit (that Giant's D is good) and you've got a prescription for real trouble.

Not surprised at the outcome or the offensive trouble.

Give him at least half a season to see.

'Course, by that time we might be 1-7.

Posted by: SteveMG | September 5, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

AHHH I feel at home here today. Come to me my fellow pesimists, Yes, yes the Sky if Falling the Sky if Falling.

Posted by: Chicken Little | September 5, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Cooley will not be able to catch the ball, because Campbell doesn't know where to throw it.

When Campbell doesn't know where to throw it, he holds onto the ball too long.

When he holds on to the ball too long, the pass rush gets to him.

When the pass rush gets to him, we need Cooley to stay in and help block, thus he will not be able to catch the ball.

Oh, what confounding ontological reasoning!!!

What we need is to split Cooley out in our WR sets and keep Yoder in to help block. This way we can get our 3 best pass catchers (Moss, Randle El, Cooley) out running patterns, and have our best blocking tight end helping out on the line.

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Another new offense to learn...it's gonna be a long, learning process [PROCESS!]. But damn if that didn't look like my 8 year-old-nephew's pee-wee team out there.

Posted by: 4-12 | September 5, 2008 10:04 AM

Do you think the Giants' defense had anything to do with that, or is it entirely on the 'Skins?

Posted by: talent evaluator | September 5, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

If Sellers was a 6-3, 225lb FB instead of being hyped at being 280lbs, nobody would be talking about him.

Posted by: skins fan88 | September 5, 2008 9:59 AM

What?

Lucy, you have some splainin' to do.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

does anyone notice that John McCain can't move his bottom lip when he talks? check him out even in fast fwd on the dvr. it's funny!

Posted by: Gregskins | September 5, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Please stop saying it was the Super Bowl champs and it's OK. They suck, too. Eli is better than JC, but he's *not* good. The Cowboys or Eagles would have steamrolled the Giants last night.

Posted by: Eli Face | September 5, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Can someone give me a word of encouragement and tell me why the Cowboys are not going to win it all...because I have a sinking feeling they are going to be lights-out this year.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Everyone keeps talking about how "it ain't that bad because we were in their house and they are Super Bowl Champs"......

Uh, didn't we beat these guys last year with our back-up QB?

Have any of you looked at the stats?

Al Michaels and John Madden were OPENLY questioning the coaching decisions last night in the final minutes - I mean.... that's bad!

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | September 5, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Skinz,

What exactly did you see last night from the offense that suggests to you that Campbell/Zorn know what they are doing? And completing a few short throws underneath a prevent defense does not count, because that is what the defense is TRYING to give you.

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Its a process. If the same mistakes are still being made in 2-3 games then is a problem but for now its part of Zorn learnign to coach.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

It’s not all on Coach Zorn, the O-line was terrible, and I understand the blame will fall on the coach, but the players need to be help responsible as well. The best game plan in the world won't work if, the player don’t win their individual battles and execute the plays.

Posted by: tj | September 5, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Do you think the Giants' defense had anything to do with that, or is it entirely on the 'Skins?

Posted by: talent evaluator | September 5, 2008 10:08 AM

Based on the question asked, I think this is the post of the day so far. Point being after one game you just don't know. It could turn out by the end of the season, the Giants will have the best overall defense. Or that Washington will have one of the worst offenses in the league. Bottom line is that is way early (first game of the season) to quit on the team.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I'm glad someone finally mentioned Fletcher, who had a great game. The rookie punter is a keeper, too.

Otherwise...and the worst of all was the playcalling. I can remember a specific series or two last season that raised eyebrows (remember the screen to Betts in the second Cowboy game where he didn't catch it, which was the best play of all?!?).

But I have never seen playcalling like this. It was not the WCO and my jaw was on the floor the whole time. Campbell didn't help with his tosses one yard shy of the marker, but I will have nightmares about those plays for years.

And the lack of urgency when it was needed most falls under "fundamentals of the game". It has nothing to do with new coaches - *I* could have done a better job.

Posted by: Jenna | September 5, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

This team won't win with J. Campbell as QB

Posted by: annonymous | September 5, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Can someone give me a word of encouragement and tell me why the Cowboys are not going to win it all...because I have a sinking feeling they are going to be lights-out this year.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:10 AM

They have not won a playoff game in 12 yrs.

They will implode with all the whiners and criminals they have on there team.

That about sums it up.

Posted by: kmdp4 | September 5, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

"Did you not see who Cooley was trying to block? Justin f'n Tuck! Cooley isn't a prototypical blocking TE, I made that point yesterday. But you can't ask him to line up against probably one of the top 10 DEs in the league and expect Tuck to be a non-factor.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM "

I'll meet you halfway there. I was a small, small TE in highschool but I was able to block bigger guys because I tripped 'em up as they trucked me. Hell, it worked.

And I'm talking about blocking the backside. That one play they showed a couple times with Tuck going in and KILLING Portis on the opposite side is just inexcusable. All Cooley has to do is bump him.

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

The short pass to Betts & deep ball to Thrash isn't fun to watch. Thomas and Kelly, please learn the plays and get healthy & on the field soon!

Posted by: Gregskins | September 5, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

What about switching Campbell to flanker (like Matt Jones) and handing the ball to Colt. He reminds me of a young Theismann and he has an arm like a howitzer.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

skinz, you doofus germans didn't bomb pearl harbor the japanese did!!!!

greg, greg, greg, you remind me of george bush. you're the equivalent of the republican machine of 2001-2006. have you ever been wrong in your life? "you don't have to answer it. it's a rhetorical question. which means either i already know the answer or i don't give a iths about your answer!" (now what movie is that from?).

sh * t man even larry michaels is off the bandwagon. so i guess there'll be an opening at skins park i highly suggest you apply for that job.

yes, jc sucks, the whole roster sucks with few exceptions. and everyone knows who those people are. but please start a website called firevinny.com not firejimzorn.com. firing jimzorn or cutting/benching JC won't solve A THING. nothing.

i can't believe someone actually blamed thrash for dropping a pass that was thrown into coverage down 9 with 30 seconds to go. LOL!!! naice! 40 friggin passing yards thru THREE QUARTERS!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Bud, do a little research pal.

Atlanta when they made the pick, it was considered a REACH. Sam Jackson was largely considered a 2nd round pick, not to mention he's starting on an ATLANTA line, only because their line SUCKS.

Chilo Rachal is so DOMINANT that he's a 2nd string Guard on the 49ers line. And POllak, he's the same on the Indy line, a BACKUP. So there you go, had we drafted these guys, they could be on the bench just like they are now. Good call...next time don't bring that weak @ss shti up here....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 8:30 AM

So let's recount. What o-linemen were available when we picked, or were able to pick?

Sam Jackson doesn't count because, well, he plays for Atlanta. Riiiight.

Chilo Rachal and Pollak don't count because they're backups right now, which would make sense except for the fact that we play a spread west coast offense and our three 2nd round picks (2 WR and 1 TE) combined to see 1 snap the entire game.

Whew, now I feel better about our picks. Thanks for clarifying. You're right, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, and Fred Davis were brilliant picks - as evidenced by the game last night.

Posted by: el diablo | September 5, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Okay we didnt play our best game ist time for a coach and a new system. Still if this was a HOME game we probably could have won it. Giants had everything in their favor and when it came down to it we were still very much in the game despite a very slow start. Springs being out is a major problem him and Fletcher are our D. I wish they would teah kids from the U how to tackle not just hit people, rocky did the latter.

Posted by: Stu | September 5, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Please stop saying it was the Super Bowl champs and it's OK. They suck, too. Eli is better than JC, but he's *not* good. The Cowboys or Eagles would have steamrolled the Giants last night.

Posted by: Eli Face | September 5, 2008 10:09 AM

So how does a SB winning team in fact "suck"? My god, sometimes I love free speech but at times I hate it. This comment from Eli proves just that. So what do you think, that you can "suck" and win a SB? Give me one team that has sucked and still won a bowl? If you say the f'n 2000 Ravens, then you're obviously aren't worth responding to.

I don't like them AT ALL, but tell us how do the Giants suck. Instead of spewing dumb shti out of that abyss in your face.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

"Did you not see who Cooley was trying to block? Justin f'n Tuck! Cooley isn't a prototypical blocking TE, I made that point yesterday. But you can't ask him to line up against probably one of the top 10 DEs in the league and expect Tuck to be a non-factor.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 9:56 AM "

Yea and ? did you see the block Portis put on last night? knock the dude off his feet. Now portis isn't a real big guy.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

So all the people here wanting to start Todd. Who you start at QB next year? Todd is probably gone to the retirement home. Lets say we start Todd, and sudenly remember thanks via Pickoff McSactown that he knows less about a WC offence than JC did. What then?

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Once we have new ownership maybe the skins can get back on track. Otherwise, it'll be more of the same for years to come!

Bench Campbell and play colt! Colt has a quicker release and is more instinctual and a better fit for the West Coast scheme. Of course, we'll probably have a new coach this time next year with a whole new offensive plan!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | September 5, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I don''t know about anybody else, but I'll take a 60% completion rate and a 1/0 TD to INT ratio any day. It's not Campbell's fault that the WRs ran routes short of the 1st. And it's not the WRs fault when play calls have them running 4 yard routes on 3rd and 13.

Zorn has a steep learning curve ahead of him.

Posted by: psps23 | September 5, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I cannot believe that not only did Ray miss the "Animal House" Pearl Harbor reference, but after he was repeatedly chided for this, dealer swoops in and makes the same mistake? Good grief.

There was a numb feeling pretty much all game that we just didn't have it, that we just weren't going to win this one. The Giants were better when it counted. But they didn't kill us, when the forecast called for pain.

I hope Zorn busts some ass in practice. I hope he flips his lid at least a little bit. Ten days to get ready for the Saints. Ten days to get some rhythm in this offense, and to get Springs and Smoot right enough to go.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | September 5, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

... The offense is clueless, and we did NOT "beat them up" for 3 quarters. We got mauled and manhandled at the line all night. ...

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 9:40 AM

BS. There was mauling and manhandling all night, but it was on both sides of the line of scrimmage.

B!tch b!tch b!tch ... and cL, if pollyanna means naive, then its the p!issing and moaning up here that is pollyanna ... its like people actually objectively thought this game was going to be a walkaway b/c of December game last season against the 9-7 team that won the Super Bowl. Are you kidding me? This is a completely new offense. What did you expect?!?!

Piss piss piss moan moan moan. I watched the game in a bar full of Skins and Giants fans ... and after the first quarter, the Giants fans got shut up.

Were there some f-ups? Duh. Its not pollyanna to acknowledge that individual players either did not make the big play (Smoot's first two missed interceptions, Cooley not making it over the first down marker, Randel El lining up offsides, Heyer letting Tuck through, Landry getting run over by Jacobs ... but on that, Landry should not have had to be the one making first contact, etc.) or that other players got targeted and picked on (Taylor forced to absorb a full half of the running game ... coming off and injury ... or the Giants figuring out that Portis on the field means hand off to Portis, so stack the box, because there were no real tricks, even the draws that where there were not chosen).

Moan moan moan ... mostly by unknowns and anonymi ... but what surprises me are that no one noticed how, eventually, Campbell WAS getting time to throw ... and, eventually, he was forcing himself to throw ... to let go and trust the play called.

I agree that the team feel on the field was flat ... but 4th, coming out of the TUNNEL flat? Did you WATCH any of the pregame? Even the chardonnay and brie NYG fans got excited about THAT! Have you read any of the quotes from the NYG D-line about "feeding off the crowd"? The Meadowlands crowd is the most fairweather and home team hostile home crowd in the NFL!!! Of COURSE Eli is going to feel confident after that! But you throw him to the ground 6-7 times ... and he becomes Eli again. And he DID get thrown to the ground 6-7 times (after launching a desperation pass). I haven't seen his completion percentage yet, but it can't have been good, esp. after the first quarter.

You know what all this "its going to be a long losing season ... can Campbell ... fire Zorn ... Vinny sucks" talk reads like to me? Like its written by last season's regular season Giants' fans. It was Week frucking One. It was BETTER than the previous two preseason games (after the first quarter anyway). Its called momentum ... inertia ... revolutions don't happen instantaneously, they happen in increments.

I'm saying Skins can beat the Saints ... unless the majority of posters up here this morning are the going to be the "home crowd" at FedEx.

[Saints will be coming in artificially confident after the win they are going to have this weekend in a post-Katrina mini-anniversary game ... back in the dome after the Gustav evacuation. Saints beat the Buccs this weekend. Its a lock.]

I'm not saying I don't hate losing and staring the season 0-1, but the Skins where in that game until about 4 minutes left in the 4th quarter. It was completely possible that they could have scored the necessary TD and FG to win the game up until the end. In the NFC East, you just need to go 3-3 and you are playoff eligible. Its only Week One, quitters.

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

I like Jim Zorn and I think he will one day be a great coach. But, we all need to get real. He has never even been a coordinator. Why is that important? Because as opposed to a QB Coach, a coordinator has an entire unit under his wing that he must develop, teach and inspire. What concerned me about the Skins last night was not the offense. That will come in time. What concerned me is the lack of fire the team showed in the first game. They looked dead. Zorn needs to stop being everyone's friend and start getting these guys going.

As for Gibbs, do you think he may have seen that on the talent front they did not match most of these teams? I think that is why he was so conservative. Sometimes as a coach you have to win anyway you can. If you have the talent you can open it up. But without the right mix it is impossible. The Skins have been in cap hell since Snyder became owner. The choice was to ax eveyone and start again (which Dan would not have done and Gibbs honestly could not as well because of his legacy). So, as Spurrier would say, Gibbs had the coach the team up. So he played conservative ball because of his talent and having a young QB. Zorn will get it but what he needs to realize is that he does not have the talent to run an open west coast offense. He needs to coach them up and win by any means necessary.

Posted by: Zman | September 5, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Am I the only one that doesn't mind rookie wideouts not making a splash in Game One of their rookie season?

For that matter, how many rookie wideouts make a splash at all in their rookie season?

The picks themselves might be questionable but c'mon...let's go get DARNERIAN!! He got cut the other day, I saw.

Posted by: Jenna | September 5, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

DAN SNYDER PLEASE FIRE YOURSELF AS THE REDSKINS OWNER !!! I just can't take it anymore. I promise I will buy six flags season passes for the rest of my life if you STEP DOWN. I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT !!!

Posted by: OG Barno | September 5, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Listen here, there's one thing that gets my dander up more than anything else in the NFL. And that is when a clearly inferior team (in this case our Skins) plays conservatively - even into the final minutes of a game in which they are trailing. You should always throw the pickle, fire the gord, launch the lemon... Swashbuckle and go down swinging. I thought when Gibbs 2 snuck out of town at night that Zorn would take multiple shots downfield, spray the paint, pop the weazle, chuck the duck, etc. But no, a run here a short pass there...no worries mate.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 10:18 AM

My God, you're a utter fU&ktard! I'm sure Skinz was being humorous, looks like you lack a sense of one. And if you were watching the game instead of cutting away to look at interent porn, I'm sure you would've saw that Thrash was in single coverage! I'm not saying the game was lost on that play, but gdammit, he could've, should've caught the ball.

what a box of tools you are, dealer.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

This team won't win with J. Campbell as QB Posted by: annonymous | September 5, 2008 10:15 AM

let's re word that:

This team won't win with Vinny as the GM

there much better.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

The 53 man roster restriction is a joke in this day and age. There isn't much in the way of depth if you don't have super starters out there. 1 or 2 injuries in a game and you've got a guy who's probably switching from another position. Our offense needs an identity. Problem is, we don't have much time to find/get one.

Posted by: gregskins | September 5, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I thought Joe Gibbs retired but now I'm not so sure. Does this sound familiar? The offense puts up between 7-10 points, Carlos Rodgers and Fred Smoot are chasing receivers again, Campbell plays a "nice" game but throws for less than 200 yards, numerous penalties, same tyrannical owner with his puppet "Vinny". The list goes on. At least they "played their guts out".

Posted by: wolff | September 5, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Interesting tidbit that I heard from John Riggins this morning. A Source told him that Jim Fassell did not like Jason Campbell and that is why he was not given the head coaching job. Jim Zorn was introduced to the Redskins by Fassell. He was Fassells choice to be his Offensive Coordinator. So Fassell was ticked that the guy he introduced to the Skins got the head job. It was interesting to hear that Fassell did not like Campbell thus causing him the coaching job.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

As for Gibbs, do you think he may have seen that on the talent front they did not match most of these teams? I think that is why he was so conservative. Sometimes as a coach you have to win anyway you can. If you have the talent you can open it up. But without the right mix it is impossible. The Skins have been in cap hell since Snyder became owner. The choice was to ax eveyone and start again (which Dan would not have done and Gibbs honestly could not as well because of his legacy). So, as Spurrier would say, Gibbs had the coach the team up. So he played conservative ball because of his talent and having a young QB. Zorn will get it but what he needs to realize is that he does not have the talent to run an open west coast offense. He needs to coach them up and win by any means necessary.

Posted by: Zman | September 5, 2008 10:24 AM

Zman,

This part of your post makes no sense Gibbs was the one picking the talent, so if he did not have enough talent maybe he should have done a better job.

Posted by: kmdp4 | September 5, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

listen K-unt aka red of whatever the f ck, you f cking tard...get a f c king sense of humor red neck ib tch!!!

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

I don''t know about anybody else, but I'll take a 60% completion rate and a 1/0 TD to INT ratio any day. It's not Campbell's fault that the WRs ran routes short of the 1st. And it's not the WRs fault when play calls have them running 4 yard routes on 3rd and 13.

Zorn has a steep learning curve ahead of him.

Posted by: psps23 | September 5, 2008 10:22 AM

There's an old saying: "Figures lie and liars figure". I'm not calling you a liar psps23, but those figures sure do. The bulk of Campbell's completions came when the Giants went to Prevent to preserve their lead. They gave JC all the underneath and short routes his heart desired. It was the Giants D, and not Campbell's great execution that got him those numbers. Sure, the WRs have to be aware of the first down marker, but JC never went to a deep guy with a throw. Perfect example: toward the end of the game on 4th and 13, JC has a couple guys deep and also has Ladell Betts wide open for a 6 yard gain. He goes to Betts...maybe those deep guys were covered, but what do you have to lose in a situation like that? Maybe we get a pass interference? Maybe our WR makes a play? Instead 'fraidy cat JC goes for the short route and a guaranteed end to our drive (not that it really mattered at that stage of the game, but you get my point).

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

and whatever sht i you just spewed how does that make me wrong...f ri ggin idiot. du m b fck!

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

... I'm glad someone finally mentioned Fletcher, who had a great game. ...

Posted by: Jenna | September 5, 2008 10:13 AM

Actually, Fletcher was the one guy who I thought was off a little last night. Him and Blache. Blache looked like he was on cough medicine. Spagnoulo looked ready to have a heart attack (how Grilliams used to look). I don't see much intensity through Blache's body language ... maybe its not his style. It seemed like it affected the defense though.

Also, someone was complaining about Brooks average last night (34 something yards). More moronry. He did his job, which was to put the ball inside the opponents' 20. His hangtime was outstanding. The defender was right in the PR's face nearly every time, forcing lots of fair catches.

I have no idea when Feagles became an in-bounds punter again ... but Randel El's PR game is still eastwest ... and that is STILL the problem with Randel El as the PR. Skins need a new PR.

Anybody not enjoy Rock late game special teams tackle? Love the Rock.

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

I have been watching the Redskins for 50 some years. It is hard to remember an offense that looked this bad in the opening game. I listen to Jurgensen and Huff on the radio during the games and Jurgy was disgusted with the offense. When are the coaches and Vinny going to realize that JC just is not going to be the quarterback that takes the team to the next level. I understand he has been in different offenses, but remember this is football, not nuclear science. It appears to me that he just does not get it. I don't know if it is an intelligence thing or what, but he never progresses, he makes the same mistakes over and over again. The other area that is hurting the Skins is the defensive backfield. Carlos and Fred cannot cover, and Carlos cannot catch. They were giving so much cushion last night I could have run a pattern on them. Springs has been a great pro, but he is as fragile as peanut brittle. He cannot stay on the field. Other observations: As Sam Huff says, why do the linebackers play 5 to 7 yards off the line? The Giants had their LB's up tight, therfore, the Skins had no running game. One thing that I have not heard anyone say anything about is on the Giants first drive, Jacobs head slapped Marcus Washington after they got into a jawing match. If the refs had called an unsportsmanlike on this it would have, maybe, kept the Giants out of the end zone. Also when Pete Kendall and Antonio Pierce got into if you look at the replay, Pierce threw a punch at Kendall. Again, no penalty. Not that this would have affected the outcome, but you never know. I think this team has the talent to do well if some adjustments are made. I am not going to kiss the season good bye after the first game, but we need to look at the QB long and hard.

Posted by: Tom | September 5, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who misses a Animal House reference needs a timeout.....

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

What was Gibbs 1.0 record after 5 games in Washington? Was it 0-5 or something like that. We should have fired him too.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

And all of you bashing Gibbs, go fock yourselves you clown a$$ chicken littles.

Posted by: OG Barno | September 5, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

deal, to quote someone from above, "go hang yourself"....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I thought Zorn's play calling was much less conservative than Gibbs ever was. He called a lot of plays that allowed playmakers to make big plays. Those playmakers, however, did not respond in kind.

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

As a Dallas enthusiast I wanted to give ya'all a yell out and say Hang In There Skins fans. I know what multiple 5-11 seasons tastes like, and it aint exactly chocolate. So I can sympathize with the angst and tension here today. OK, ya'll just simmer down. Like Wade Phillips, Zorn has the pedigree and energy to fix your ship. Hang tough and keep your chins up no matter how low you feel. Warshington has been (historically) a very worthy adversary for my team and I'm with ya'll in spirit today.

Posted by: Slim Pickins | September 5, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

They gave JC all the underneath and short routes his heart desired. It was the Giants D, and not Campbell's great execution that got him those numbers. Sure, the WRs have to be aware of the first down marker, but JC never went to a deep guy with a throw.

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:31 AM

What you fail to mention is that there were no deep routes called. I saw 3 the entire game, and all 3 were thrown to give his WR a shot at making a play (2 to Moss and 1 to Thrash). If you saw the last play, Cooley was short of the first with his backside covered - he wasn't going anywhere closer than where he was standing, no shot at a 1st. Moss was barely across the 1st and he was surrounded by DBs. I like Moss, but I'm not 3 exactly putting my money on him outjumping 3 DBs by posting up on them. The only play he had was to Betts and hoping his RB could make an open field play. That call was doomed from the start.

The passing woes this game go on Zorn. There's no two ways about it. Campbell did all he could to get yards and plays out of his options. There's only so much he could do. Tom Brady wouldn't have moved the ball in that offense.

Posted by: psps23 | September 5, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Tom points out:
"game. One thing that I have not heard anyone say anything about is on the Giants first drive, Jacobs head slapped Marcus Washington after they got into a jawing match. If the refs had called an unsportsmanlike on this it would have, maybe, kept the Giants out of the end zone. Also when Pete Kendall and Antonio Pierce got into if you look at the replay, Pierce threw a punch at Kendall. Again, no penalty."

I too was suprised that nothing got called there. Especially the Pierce thing. What the hell is his malfunction?

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Hey, everybody, how about let's calm it down a little.

Nobody's happy with this loss. No reason to tear each other apart over the whys and wherefores. Good grief.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | September 5, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Yea and ? did you see the block Portis put on last night? knock the dude off his feet. Now portis isn't a real big guy.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:19 AM

Riight anon. And Cooley was just being tossed around all f'n night, right? Wait a minute? What's your point? If Portis can make a (can't remember the term, cut?) block, then Cooley should as well? Portis made that block, while the defender was engaged. Portis wouldn't de-cleat someone straight up like that. It was a helluva a block, no doubt but I wouldn't exactly flip Portis' number around and stick up on the oline.

Not quite yet anyway. *ugh*

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Here's the formula to look for burgundygolders: 0-3 and 5 TDs or less. At that point, The Colt, Pride of the Pacific, comes out of the corral and leads our team to its rightful place atop the NFC East.

As for last night, I think we saw the unveiling of the Mosquito Coast offense. Now, somebody put the veil back on it and let's never speak of it again.

Posted by: CrazyDanny'sEmporium | September 5, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Hey, dcsween:

Giants: 30 rushes for 155 yards
Skins: 24 rushes for 84 yards

Now if we were "manhandling and mauling" the Giants for 3 quarters along the line, how come we got our tails kicked in the running game comparison? The only thing the skins were "mauling and manhandling" was their own game plan.

We are all (mostly) Skins fans in here, and I submit that I'm as big a Skins fan as anyone out there, but our guys SUCKED last night. Let's just call them out and hope for a better outing next week.

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Pierce talks poorly of the team, so he's a good guy in JLa's book. Nevermind the facts that it came down to MONEY as the real reason that Pierce left.

The guy Portis knocked down, was Kiwi, who was already engaged with Samuels, which most likely helped him being able to knock him on his @ss.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

"I have been watching the Redskins for 50 some years. It is hard to remember an offense that looked this bad in the opening game."

Thank you, Tom. Couldn't agree more!

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

p1funk, maybe. Take out the first quarter rushing stats and repost.

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

psps,

If you read my initial post I lumped Zorn and Campbell together and gave them both an "F". I thought the playcalling was atrocious and I thought JC played like crap. I'm not in disagreement with you there.

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

In unrelated news, someone in the bar last night referred to GOP VP nominee, Sarah Palin, as "Caribou Barbie" ... and that sounded funny ...

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Wade Phillips could coach the bark off a tree.

Posted by: Slim Pickins | September 5, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, dcsween...I've gotta run and do some actual work so I can't redo the stats. Let's just agree that last night was CRAP and look forward to beating the snot out of the Saints next time around.

Peace...

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

deal, go away, go write in your journal, take a walk, get a hobby, just go...

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

p1funk, the Skins D line did get the NYG O-line on their heels quite a bit on passing downs ... Eli was feeling pressure all night (after the first quarter), which is something that the Skins didn't do so well last season.

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I find it amazing that the 'skins can play so piss poorly in many areas and still have an opportunity to win.

Three dropped interceptions is wrong. The play calling was worse. When the play only allows people to get open when they don't get sufficient yardage for the first down, there's something wrong with the play calling.

Campbell needs to learn the playbook more and understand how defenses play into that - i.e. who will be open based on the play and the defense. Either he does not know how to do the second part of it (read the defense), or he's not up to speed on the first (knowing the plays), or both. I have a feeling it's both.

Landry getting smacked by Jacobs was poor body position. Bend your knees and keep your back perpendicular to the floor while getting smacked and you'll fall over too. Hopefully though you won't have the whole body vibration that Landry experienced.

The thing that frightens me about this though is how lifeless the players were. Zorn may be too calm where he needs two fiery coordinators, or simply a motivational speaker. It's nuts, but I say with the personality of GG on the team, and his equivalent as an OC, this team would be freaking amazing. But with Zorn, and the too levelheaded people we have now, I don't know how we're going to snap out of this. We've played without any fire for 3 weeks straight. Terrible.

Posted by: Karen | September 5, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Now that I've barfed up my ill feelings. I will say "adieu" on a high note and recount my 3 positive moments from last night:

1) Portis dropping Kiwi like he was Obama dropping Jeremiah Wright

2)Kendall going after "Sour Grapes" Pierce and ripping off his helmet

3)LL getting blocked on a blitz, falling down, getting up and STILL completing the sack along with Andre Carter

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

This is highly entertaining...

Posted by: chrIS lArry | September 5, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Greg, Al Zeke,

Would you two please look at Red in the DMV and Dealer? This is what a fight is supposed to look like, not those little girlie slaps you two were throwing up here the other day.

These two could not only whip each other, they could turn you two wissies into muffins while they were doing it.

Posted by: Long time poster, first time lurker | September 5, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

I do disagree on Fletcher. He led both teams on tackles, which surprised me - Tuck seemed to be everywhere.

But I totally agree on Brooks. That was not an easy first game for a rookie and the hang time is what will make the difference in our coverage. I also think he's going to be good at Mike Bragg type punts (pinning them inside the 5). Frost was useless on both counts.

Posted by: Jenna | September 5, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

greg, please explain to me how is it that you came to criticize the post coverage of this team when they basically said their draft picks aren't panning out, and the first game was a huge disappointment. HOW do you criticize the truth? HOW?

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 10:55 AM

Dealer,

I will only comment on the picks and it is to early to tell if they will pan out.

Jasno has a personal agenda against the FO of this team that has been stated many times.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Giants rushed 9 for 59 in the first quarter (6 of which were right at Jason Taylor).

Skins rushed 5 for 15 in the first quarter.

Adjusted rushing stats after the first quarter.

Giants: 21 rushes for 96 yards
Skins: 19 rushes for 69 yards

Check my math, but I think 4.75 ypc for the Giants and 3.63 ypc for the Skins ... so maybe you're right ... the Skins got the worse of the line play in the running game ... Jacobs clearly did a number on the Skins' LBs.

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to say that the fighting on this board today is awful, and Ideally if the posts could be edited to delete the foul parts or simply deleted, I'd be happy. I don't come here to see the equivalent of stupid drunks fighting. I come here to read what people have to say about my team.

Posted by: Karen | September 5, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Surprise! The Skins offense actually played the same way they did in the last two pre-season games :-(

I actually thought they were being deceptive and would come out firing on all cylinders...

At least the defense played decently after being on the field for 3/4 of the first half. And the special teams are much better than last year.

Hopefully the QB and WR play will improve as the season progresses and lead to scoring more points. The only receiver who looked good was Randel El and he still had two stupid illegal procedure calls. Is it me or does Moss drop too many balls? Those type of mistakes directly contributed to the awful 3-13 3rd down completion rate that killed nearly every drive...

Posted by: Siris | September 5, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Okay, so we have an internet gangster (dealer) who makes net threats as such:

"seriously red i've never been mad at anyone up here before. i could seriously snap you in half in person if i saw you. piece of sht i. lemme guess you're a republican aren't you? that's what got you all hot up in your fat a s s??? didn't it?"

Ooooooo, I'm shaking in my cowboy boots. And by the way, I'm far from a redneck. Grew up in the DC metro area, in a black neighborhood, so Listen here you f'n d*@khead, if you ever came across me, with the f'n bull you're talking right there, there would no need to throw the hands. We'll just leave at that. Trust me. Don't ever assume that you know ANYTHING about me. If you'd like you can email me at:

vadude336@yahoo.com. we can meet up and I'll show you're punk ass what I'm talking about, b*tch. It's in your best interest not to threaten me, if you do your punk ass better be ready to back that shti up.

you've been invited and/or warned, F%@*ing c0cksmoker.
LOL this is the kind of energy the skins need to diplay on the field

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

Get off Ray's nuts and let them two handle it themselves. Nobody is above anything when it gets personal. So quit riding another mans shaft. Ray is not going to do anything for you. So let them two handle it.

Posted by: OG Barno | September 5, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

"I have been watching the Redskins for 50 some years. It is hard to remember an offense that looked this bad in the opening game."

Thank you, Tom. Couldn't agree more!

Posted by: p1funk | September 5, 2008 10:43 AM

You are insane. The Skinz played a divisional game, on the road, with the team celebrating their Super Bowl victory (again), that was close in score.

As I thought tho, people will jump ship on the team. Fariweather fan.

Posted by: Skip in Va | September 5, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

I want to be positive...I want to think it's only one game, it will be ok...but I really have a hard time shaking that play calling last night. It's like Zorn's playbook consists of 4 plays, Portis up the middle, dump off to a WR 4 yards short of the first down, Campbell roll out while he stares at one receiver until he gets open (ok, that one is all JC), and punt. It happened on 5 straight possessions. They finally decide to wake up on the last 2 possessions and start moving the ball, so why couldn't they do that earlier?

I'm proud of the D for doing as well as they did minus Springs, losing Smoot and banged up and recovering in other places. But seriously...you throw to Cooley twice all game? Why would you throw a 4 yard pass when you need 7 for the first down? Over and over again at that (that one could also be JC, not impressed by him).

I really don't want to be that gloomy guy after one game, we have gotten off to some horrid starts lately, what else is new? But when you see a regular season game that looks just like a preseason game, when you got handed in the preseason, it scares me. One word Jim...learn it well...adjustment.

Posted by: allstar1579 | September 5, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

As a Dallas enthusiast I wanted to give ya'all a yell out and say Hang In There Skins fans. I know what multiple 5-11 seasons tastes like, and it aint exactly chocolate. So I can sympathize with the angst and tension here today. OK, ya'll just simmer down. Like Wade Phillips, Zorn has the pedigree and energy to fix your ship. Hang tough and keep your chins up no matter how low you feel. Warshington has been (historically) a very worthy adversary for my team and I'm with ya'll in spirit today.

Posted by: Slim Pickins | September 5, 2008 10:38 AM

We now have Cowgirl fans giving us the "its going to be ok speech"?This is bad,this is very very bad.

Posted by: dawglbs | September 5, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

I think Dealer lost the edge like some other regulars have over the years. Everyone is wound tight and sometimes the string breaks. Take the day off Dealer come back raring to go tomorrow.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Noting that Jessica Simpson reportedly snoops through boyfriend Tony Romo's text messages, Jay Leno says the Dallas Cowboys quarterback doesn't mind, adding, "In fact, he thinks it's really cute when she tries to read."

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

We now have Cowgirl fans giving us the "its going to be ok speech"?This is bad,this is very very bad.

Posted by: dawglbs | September 5, 2008 11:02 AM

We've had worse. Some Miami fan -- "Redcoat" -- was up here trying to console us.

Posted by: talent evaluator | September 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Ah pheel yor pane

Till next week,
Slim

Posted by: Slim Pickins | September 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

again...don't get personal. vadude, you didn't have to do what you just did cuz you got personal with someone. i highly doubt that you'd talk to me like that in person. now bunch of people have your e-mail address.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

deal, did the Redskins have any of their rookies play in last night's game?

The answer to that of course is yes.

So then then the statement, "Basically, the draft class is not suiting up tonight" is a lie.

Sally Jenkins then claims that this was a, "lineman-rich draft", to which I say, really? I'd LOVE for Sally to name ONE rookie lineman that got picked where the Redskins picked that is starting. Now, someone above named 2 offensive linemen, both of which are backing up on the Colts, and 49ers, so what makes her think that it would be any different here??

Don't put words out there that I didn't say. I've stated all along, that when it comes to Jenkins, and Jla, the truth is NEVER a factor in what they write about. Its all about taking a dump on the team.

I'm a Republican by the way....

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Karen, I'm thinking that Campbell KNOWS the playbook, but its that he just hasn't trusted it ... yet. On a couple of series, he did force himself to throw when he was supposed to ... and that was some of what that scoring drive at the end of the first half was about. Other times, he threw the ball when he was supposed to, but the receiver didn't make the play. On what would have been a sure TD (one the three long throws that someone noticed), Santana Moss pulled up and slowed down. If Moss had stayed with his route, it would have been a TD ... which at the time, would have MAJORLY swung the momentum .. definitely would have taken the crowd out ... and maybe meant to a different result.

Jenna, agree to disagree on Fletcher. He just looked a little off to me. He definitely was having to be the "second level" behind Jason Taylor (who had a target on his jersey). Marcus had a good night. Rocky had a good night. I dunno, maybe you're right ... I'd need to watch the game again (which I really don't feel like doing knowing the result).

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Let's go Gi-ants! Let's go Gi-ants! Let's go Gi-ants!

Posted by: SB Champs | September 5, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I will try to take a stab at the throwing for 4 yrds when you need 7

The WCO is setup to hit recievers on short passes in stride and let them run with the ball.

EX. Montana to any reciever on the team 5 yrd pass 40 yrd run.

JC does not get the ball out quick enough to hit recievers in stride so no run after the catch.

The play were Moss caught the TD was the only true WC pass, I saw last night hit Moss in-stride across the middle Moss run for TD.

JC is a seven step QB whith a loopy delivery, not the best for the WCO.

I am not saying he can not improve but it will take time.

Posted by: kmdp4 | September 5, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

On ESPN this morning Hasselbeck recalled that Holmgren said it takes a quarterback FOUR YEARS to learn the WCO.

Yikes!

Posted by: Not Anonymous | September 5, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I'd just like to say, to no one in particular, that being critical of the team doesn't make you a fair weather fan. I'm not sure why people say that sometimes. It may make you an overreacter, a chicken little, etc. but not a fair weather fan.

Just clarifying.

Posted by: Skinz | September 5, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Also, it looked like Landry hurt his upper arm after that collision with Jacobs ... maybe his shoulder or bicep ... hope that doesn't turn out to be a problem.

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

ann, i'm okay now. my job is done. i just wanted vadude to feel how i felt. mission accomplished.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Everyone needs to calm down. It's one game, but I think Vinny Cerrato's nervous look in the 2nd qtr gave me the impression he f'd up in the draft. He looked like one of those gamblers, who just lost his life savings. The offensive and defensive lines looked terrible last night. That's where our problems have been at the last few years. We can't establish a consistent pass rush, or give our running backs some good holes to run through. It's bad enough Campbell got off to a rough start, but not having a consistent o-line that can protect him doesn't help. Last time we drafted a d-lineman in the 1st round 1997 Kenard Lang. Last time we drafted a o-lineman in the 1st round Chris Samuels in 2000. Let's wait and see how Kelly, Thomas, and Davis pan out before we crucify Snyder and Cerrato. Week 2 against the Saints is a big game. If Campbell stumbles at Fed Ex, he'll get booed out of the buidling. Enjoy the rest of the opening week in the NFL.

Posted by: redskinsfan | September 5, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

From PFT:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/09/05/kiwanuka-okay/#comments


Though the Giants avoided losing their third defensive end since Super Bowl XLII, Tuck suggested that the move by Samuels wasn’t an accident.

“You never think a guy’s out there trying to hurt another guy, but it happened and we move on from it,” Tuck said. “Obviously it ruffled some feathers.”

It’ll be interesting to see if those feathers are unruffled when these two teams get together again on November 30.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Did Tryon make it onto the field last night? Looked to me that Rogers and Smoot were playing pretty much every snap ... and if they needed a nickel, they brought in Horton ... but that they mostly played 4-3-4 and not that much 4-2-5 (or that when the brought in a nickel, it was 3-3-5).

Posted by: dcsween | September 5, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

greg, you're a republican? now you're just pulling my leg. dude, all i'm saying is how you gonna take on the press after a loss like last night? after all these years of mediocrity? and yes, i do agree that sally is a fraud but you got no leg to stand on...if they had won or wait until they win. like last year...i was criticizing jason for his coverage but not now...the team and snyder deserve all the bad press they get.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, I get what you mean kmdp, I have been saying for a while now that JC is not a good WC QB. A quick decision making, fast release kind of guy is what you want there, and he just can not seem to make a pass while a guy is still running. Even without that though, I saw a LOT of hooks being run on those short passes, so you aren't going to hit those guys in stride, and if they are stopped with their back to coverage 4 yards short of a 1st down, you have to assume they are not getting there. My frustration was that the Giants were throwing the same kind of passes but all of theirs were across the 1st down marker.

Posted by: allstar1579 | September 5, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

They really need to teach kids from Hurricane U how to tackle Rocky tries to blow up eli and blows right by him. The team as a whole had tackling deficencies. If Springs or smoot are going to miss anytime we Have to look into FA to shore up the CB spot Carlos cant be the #1 guy which is wht he is if both arent healthy and playing.

Posted by: Stu | September 5, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Enough, this bickering is pointless.

Posted by: Alex35332 | September 5, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

dcsween,

Tryon did not play, when Smoot went out Torrence came in and Horton played Nickle.

Posted by: kmdp4 | September 5, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

DC Sween:

I don't mean to offend, so please don't take it that way, but I have to stress a point about your 10:36 post ("I thought Zorn's play calling was much less conservative than Gibbs ever was. He called a lot of plays that allowed playmakers to make big plays. Those playmakers, however, did not respond in kind.")

I'm not so sure about the play-calling bit. Think 2004 when they would throw underneath to Coles in the hopes that his sorry-@ss could make plays in space. The following year in the same offense and with the same play-calling Santana Moss took those same passes and broke the Redskins season record for yards-receiving en route to an All-Pro season that greatly helped us to the playoffs.

Throwing underneath to Moss or Randle El in order for them to make plays is great - but Campbell was doing this on 3rd-and-long with two defenders directly behind them is not. Either that's on Campbell for his decision-making and inability to look off his primary receiver (or locking onto one receiver), or Zorn for his play-designing or play-calling, or both.

I recall very few downfield passes last night, particularly prior to the 4th quarter...While I disagree that Zorn's play-calling was 'much less conservative' than Gibbs', I do completely agree that the players have to make plays when their time comes.

With respect.

Posted by: Red Skinz | September 5, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

yeah let's get over the lame fighting

or at least stop with the partially censored words please, I come here because I don't have to worry about that crap at work

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Tryon was out there. I saw him on several plays. Assuming that he is #20.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

This is the East Coast.

I don't know what people are thinking trying to come out here and do anything but play a run first type of attack.

The best West Coast teams (49ers come to mind) had killer RBs who could hurt you.

The run game has to be solid or else your quarterback will have a bullseye on his back the whole game.

But the big problem is lack of leadership. What is this teams identity? Who is the voice of the team? Portis?

And the Saints are coming next week. With Jeremy Shockey. Just traded and with something to prove. Who the hell is going to cover him?

Posted by: Silver Spring | September 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Come on people, it is just one game and it was against a quality opponent. I didn't feel good about the start of the season, it is always tough with a new coach and new offense. Trust me, I will be the first to criticize if they are playing like this in week 5, but I am not going to worry about a first game loss, against the defending SB champs, on the road.

Posted by: BT | September 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

"It’ll be interesting to see if those feathers are unruffled when these two teams get together again on November 30.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 11:12 AM "


screw them, they played dirty all night long. Should've had two big penalties called and isn't swinging at someone an automatic ejection? NO CLASS, same old Giants, a reflection of their fans and organization. Buncha crap they are.

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: Not Anonymous | September 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

And once again, let me echo the Giants are lucky #21 wasn't out there.

I would DARE Jacobs to try that crap on ST last night. Now our secondary is a punching bag. freaking SHAME

Posted by: The Truth | September 5, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

We really don't think we are going to evaluate the entire draft class after one game do we? I mean maybe at the end of the season, but I would even give it two. We made a lot of later round picks, and they are later round picks for a reason, they are not supposed to start from day 1. Jackson looks like a good speed rusher, lets let him develop like Montgomery and Wilson and see how he does. Tryon is a 4th round corner, not a first or second, he is not supposed to start, or even really play more than ST, but yes he is my least favorite of the picks. Horton and Moore looked great in the preseason, but we are a playoff contending team, if we have 6th and 7th round picks starting in the secondary doesn't it say something?

Brooks was about even with Frost, so of course you keep him, cheaper and younger, and more potential. Brennan is the future of this team, at least if we stay with this offense. Malcom needs to heal, Thomas needs to play, and Davis should get more time at TE while lining Cooley up at WR.

Posted by: allstar1579 | September 5, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Dealer and DMV dont make me pull this blog over and come back there.I will you know,now we'll have none of your shananagins or they'll be no supper for the both of yous.

Posted by: dawglbs | September 5, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

deal, are you not understanding what I'm saying??

JLA, outright LIED about the rookies playing in this game FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF ADVANCING HIS AGENDA AGAINST THE TEAM, but I don't have a leg to stand on?? "basically the entire draft class is inactive", is NOT THE TRUTH.

If he came out and said that Devin Thomas didn't have a catch would that be true?

Sally Jenkins, again, just throws crap against the wall that suits her agenda.

If she wants to PROVE HER POINT, she should have come with, They should have drafted "Player X" who is slated to start for "Team X", and was available when the Redskins took "Thomas/Davis/Kelly". Otherwise she's just saying this draft class is a bust, after 1 game. Stupid, and irresponsible journalism.

Yeah, I'm a Republican, no joke. Get over your hangups with it.

Posted by: Greg | September 5, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

This is the 3rd season we would nearly sacrifice for Jason Campbell -- he is what he is now: a super-scared looking stiff big-arm. He is never going to be an elite QB, never! Keep wasting season after season on this project, or move on.

I would cut him: release him unconditionally today. Is this what he learnt during training camp taking all those reps?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I've been a diehard Redskins fan for 30 years (starting when I was 5), but if Zorn or Campbell are replaced within the next year, I'm done. I don't mind that the Redskins looked terrible yesterday, or that they might have a poor season this year. I mind all the nonsensical talk about replacing coaches and quarterbacks.

I agree with Sally Jenkins that Zorn is inheriting a mess. And if that's true, so is Campbell. I couldn't disagree with Wise more about Campbell needing to prove himself this season. Wise's comparison of Campbell and Eli Manning is absolutely worthless. Manning had 4 years in the same offensive system. Campbell's on his 3rd in 4 years. The two scenarios couldn't be more different.

The only way for the Redskins to right their ship is to pursue coaching and player stability over the years, and to draft and sign new players wisely. Really not as hard as they make it seem. But if we have to "start over" next year (or perhaps the year after) with a new coach and new QB, there are much better organizations out there to support.

Posted by: Johnnie Futbol | September 5, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

again...don't get personal. vadude, you didn't have to do what you just did cuz you got personal with someone. i highly doubt that you'd talk to me like that in person. now bunch of people have your e-mail address.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 11:06 AM

ann, i'm okay now. my job is done. i just wanted vadude to feel how i felt. mission accomplished.

Posted by: dealer | September 5, 2008 11:09 AM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, first off. I don't sugarcoat nothing, dealer. You think how I addressed you in my first post, I wouldn't do as such if I seen you in person? You're wrong, dude. And as far as the personal tip, yeah I called you a "box of tools". Yeah I called you a "d0chebag", but if you call these insults or personal attacks then you haven't really been insulted or attacked personally. You're weak, homeboy. It's as simple as that. You want someone to kiss your ass and tell you nicely how you're wrong? Really, who in the hell do you think you are?

You think I give a damn about someone having that email address? Like many people I have more than one, so save that condescending B dot f'n S for someone who cares.

See, reading you're last post explains you're problem right there. You're too damn feminine. You wanted me to FEEL how you felt? Whatever... Oprah comes on sometime in the afternoon go watch her. Or read a F'n Helen Keller book or something. It only became personal or feeling based because YOU made it that way.

For anyone who was offended by the comments I made, I apologize. However there shouldn't be because it didn't have anything to do with anyone else.

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 5, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Can someone please explain to me why Santana Moss was "down" on that catch where he lost his helmet?? He hadn't officially caught the ball until well after the defender had touched him. What the #@!$???

Posted by: Pretzel Boy | September 5, 2008 8:47 AM


Undoubtably the officials will use the argument that the whistle had blown. Agree that it was premature, but that happens in a game. Too late, they realized that Moss was still in the process of catching the ball.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 5, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

15-1!

Posted by: DCUnited2 | September 5, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt Colt

Posted by: Colt Colt Colt | September 5, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

we could hardly snap the ball and get a play off. we looked like a weak college squad. zorn looked dumb, how about the last 6 minutes just wasting time like it was the 4th quarter. wtf?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

what a joke! The Skins have picked up where they have left off under Danny Boys leadership

the team is horrible and the QB is not pro caliber

Posted by: john | September 5, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

(1) No turnovers I think; (2) not too too bad on the penalty side. That is good coaching. Or at least less cursing at the TV than years past.

Pass rush started coming on. Offense has a ways to go. Did not cave in when they might have.

Might be a fun team to watch when the passing game gets going.

Posted by: Trafalmadore | September 5, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I feel violated...

Posted by: LaRon Landry | September 5, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

It seemed apparent from the first snap that our quarterback Jason "Can't Ball" isn't ready for prime time. On the first play, he took his three step drop, had a receiver open, and held onto the ball (which is more than he usually does when he gets hit) until he was sacked.

I would love for him to come out and admit that at least some of the team's failure is due to his poor play and decision making. I realize it is a team game but a little more "I" and a little less "we" would show me that he understands that he has a way to go before being a good NFL quarterback.

Posted by: Jim B | September 5, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

First - this team should not be considered a rebuilding team - this year. We are in a highly unusual situation because, for the second time, coach Joe bugged out on short notice - when Walsh left the 49er's, it was not a huge surprise and succession had been planned - though, I must say, I'm still unsure as to Mr. Snyder's thinking when he did not hire Gregg Williams.

But folks, this time made the playoffs last year, really should have easily had 10 or 11 wins, and is returning everyone but ST!

We have strong players at several skill postions on the offense, I.E. - Portis, Cooley and Moss and what we may call an average offensive line.

The defense sucked it up last night, and gave us a chance to be in the game (some fault goes to LBM, but we made some plays)

What was the most frustrating image from last night was the final 6 minutes of the game - referred to on the pages of the Post as a "lack of urgency" - No, Dude! You run a hurry up offense at that point - no ifs ands or buts - you are trying to win the game!

This is what concerns me - If I'm a player, I'm wondering what in the heck Zorn is thinking there, especially if I've fought my guts out on defense to give us a chance to win. I'm afraid that Zorn could lose the defense if he does not figure out some way to get the ball moving downfield soon.

And we would be looking at 4-12.

Posted by: John D in Houston | September 5, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

What is ominous is that the two deep passes that Campbell threw should have been away from the defenders where his receivers had better position to fight for the ball. While his completion % his high, a lot of the short passes weren't thrown so the receiver could catch in stride and run.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

0-16 just what Dan & Vinny deserve

Posted by: Anonymous | September 5, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Jason
Thanks for keeping it real (I think the youngsters say that). Interesting discussions abound today. It appears that Mr Snyder has indded emulated his idol Jerry Jones in some respects -- especially where he becomes "buddies" with certain players, who then become "special." I'd like to know when "matching your opponents intensity level" had to be directed by a Coach or somehow be bestowed by the Almighty. That is the standard answer; along with we have to keep fighting. Well, the offense needs to start fighting before they can keep fighting.
And, for once and for all, when will the Redskins admit that they do not "have a lot of talent" -- 8-8 is a stretch! Maybe when we stop drinking the Kool Aid on redskins.com and the rubbish Michael puts out on COMCAST?? I don't watch it any more.
And I need to add -- for all who debate the wisdom of drafting receivers, hell, this team doesn't have but one wideout - Moss. Do we need linemen - of course! I love James Thrash, but he's never been able to (1) get open or (2) catch the ball consistently. Anyway, if we drafted OL or DL folks, would they be "in there" yet? Nope! And, Taylor and Landry will get better. OBTW - are the gold tipped shoe wearing idiots getting paid for wearing them? Interesting that every single part of the Giants uniforms matched -- no one allowed "extras" so everyone can see them. If I was getting torched, I certainly would not weat gold tipped or heeled shoes. Good Grief!
And, for those that think Jason is "the future", maybe we (yes, I thought so too) should listen to the coaches who didn't buy in on Campbell's future greatness and saw him as severely limited (Gibbs for sure, Fassell (a QB Coach), the NY D Guy Spagnuolo... We need to play Collins now. He earned it last year. What kind of message does that send? Let Jason sit for a few seasons or until he "gets it." But, watch out for the Hawaii kid who does everything 100 mph.
Having been there and done that, albeit at a much lower level, I knew that Coach Zorn was going to be overwhelmed by things early on. He's taken on too much. He has to delegate nearly everything other than play-calling and key decision-making -- even when to call TO's (or at a minimum have a coach standing there reminding him). He really cannot focus on defense and teams at all if he's planning the attack. He seems really bright, so I'm sure he will fix his roles, and we need to give him time.
Hang in there. Old Coach

Posted by: Old Coach | September 5, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Told ya'll Cooley couldn't block. Proof!

Posted by: Hail2theChief | September 8, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

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