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An Unrestricted Look at Campbell

Jason Reid argues that Jason Campbell isn't to blame for all of the Redskins' issues of late.

By Cindy Boren  |  December 2, 2008; 11:27 AM ET
 
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Comments

1st

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 2, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

3rd HI DAD

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 2, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

While the O-line is partially to blame, Jason is not making quick enough mental decisions. If the first read is covered he has problems. He also doesn't seem to understand throwing a pass away can be a good thing. In my opinion he looks lost when getting even a little pressure and I know all about 7 offenses in 8 years but when will enough be just that enough.

I would love to see Collins play a game to see how he looks in this offense and if he plays well which I believe he would you could let Brennan learn in the #2 slot.

Posted by: Thoroughbred | December 2, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas has 11 receptions for 77 yards, 5 first downs. This is not including his 1 receiving TD called back on a penalty and his rushing TD that counted last Sunday.

Santana Moss in his first year had 2 catches for 40 yards and 2 first downs.

Posted by: TheTruth11

Will people stop making this comparison? Santana Moss tore cartilage in his knee during preseason his rookie year and was inactive for the first 11 games of the season.

Talent does not hide well on a football field. Around 300-400 yards should be reasonable for his rookie year, if we expect him to become a consistent and good WR. We'll see how he does down the stretch.

Here's another short list of players to look at:

Andre Johnson, 66 catches, 976 yards
Reggie Wayne, 27 rec, 345 yds
Chad Johnson, 28 rec, 329 yds
Calvin Johnson, 48 rec, 756 yds
Greg Jennings, 45 rec, 642 yds
Terrell Owens, 35 rec, 520 yds
Brandon Marshall, 20 rec, 309 yds
Larry Fitzgerald, 58 rec, 780 yds
Anquan Boldin, 101 rec, 1377 yds
Randy Moss, 69 rec, 1313 yds
Plaxico Burress, 22 rec, 273 yds
Hines Ward, 15 rec, 246 yds
Steve Smith, 10 rec, 154 yds
Roddy White, 29 rec, 446 yds


Most of the consistently GOOD/GREAT wide receivers show something in their first year. It's far more unlikely to see a guy nearly completely absent in the receiving game his rookie year end up becoming a good, consistent WR. It just doesn't happen very often. Devin Thomas still has time, but it is NOT a good sign that he's shown essentially nothing so far in the passing game. And he has no excuses but his own play.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

you still don't get it. Could we fix every position in one offseason? No, I wasn't saying that we could, I was saying that you can sign some veteran depth, like three players, one at end, one at linebacker, and one on the oline, and have a full draft class. Does that fix everything? No! Would it have helped so that we wouldn't be stuck playing Blades and Fincher? Yes! Would it have helped so that if Daniels had gotten hurt again like he had every season to date? Yes!

I'm not saying this class is a bust, I am saying its stupid to draft two receivers then cut every receiver but Thrash forcing you to really on the rookies. and I'm saying its stupid to not add decent depth to positions you obviously need it. They used this draft to try and add weapons in the passing game. GREAT! we needed and still do need it. But you can sign a couple of guys to help your depth at other spots?

They had the cap room to do it and they didn't even try, that's my point, would signing three middle of the road free agents made us a super bowl team and fixed every problem....no...but it would have helped us get better and taken some pressure of the draft class and was a very doable thing. My whole point is that it doesn't have to be one thing or the other, you can have a draft class and a reasonable free agency period with a few conservative signings.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Let's be honest about Jason Campbell. He's had 4 years for the light to turn on. It's still off. And it's staying off.

The Skins don't need to get rid of him, but I wouldn't sign him to a big-money contract that locks the Skins into him for years. He's replaceable and the Skins should treat him as such.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 2, 2008 11:22 AM

You can't be serious...in 4 years here, Campbell's working on his 3rd different offense. And the light doesn't go on? A COACHING CHANGE TURNS THE LIGHT OFF BEFORE HE GETS A CHANCE!

As for the subsequent fluff you wrote (and by the way, JC is NOT 244 lbs if you put 20 lb weights in his pockets), I'd feel a little better if a GM told me what his problem is. And then, of course, is the fact that HE'S GOT AN 88 QB rating DESPITE AN OLD, MEDIOCRE LINE! Put some weapons around him and give him more than 2 seconds to throw and I'm sure those numbers are even better.

The bottom line is this: JC's season has actually been impressive to date. He's been put on his @ss over 30 times, has 2 legit receivers and is learning his 233rd offense since high school graduation. The NFL is about continuity and he has not been afforded that AT ALL. I guarantee you Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are bums if they're drafted by the Lions or the Cardinals. It's about stability!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 2, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

As soon as we are "out of contention" for the playoffs, if we get to that point, I would love to see the team just bench Jansen for Heyer and Kendal for Ryenhart, and El and Thrash move to the bottom of the WR list, just to give rookies playing time.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

i hate these videos!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

As soon as we are "out of contention" for the playoffs, if we get to that point, I would love to see the team just bench Jansen for Heyer and Kendal for Ryenhart, and El and Thrash move to the bottom of the WR list, just to give rookies playing time.

Posted by: alex35332


Why not do it now? What we have clearly isn't working on offense, and even if it does improve to the beginning of the season levels, we still can't beat elite teams in the playoffs. Might as well see if these guys give a spark (although I'd keep ARE as a 2/3 guy).

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Alex, that I whole heatedly agree with. Unfortunately I don't think we'll be mathematically out of it until week 15 at the earliest and that means this won't happen. I wish they'd do it now, let Heyer, Rhinehart, Kelly, and Thomas sink or swim in meaningful games. The chances of our making the playoffs now are slim to none and slim left town.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

the only hard spot to decide on is WR, my solution would be rotate Kelly and Thomas as the no 2 each drive.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell has no fire in him at all. And he makes some vey dumb throws. IF we ever get to the point where we are out of playoff contention, I say we put Colt in there and put some of the young lineman in there too

Posted by: FAB88 | December 2, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Why not do it now? What we have clearly isn't working on offense, and even if it does improve to the beginning of the season levels, we still can't beat elite teams in the playoffs. Might as well see if these guys give a spark (although I'd keep ARE as a 2/3 guy).

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 11:45 AM

So basically wave the white flag on a season that has you two games better than last year...got it. Hey, it's only 4 games left...just like preseason! Let's treat it like that and sign a few undrafted FAs that might do well next year. Great plan!

I think Herm said it best--"YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! HELLO? YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 2, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Some of you are so funny. A lot of you up here calling for JC head didn't have jack to say when we were winning. All of those that are talking about other great quarterbacks. How many systems did they had to learn in their first 4 years? How many of you same ones that calling for JC head are the same one that called for Rogers head but now on his jock?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 2, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Would it really hurt to give Collins a chance back there? If you don't get better then either put JC back in (worked for McNabb) or let Colt get some time if you think he is the future.

Posted by: Thoroughbred | December 2, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Never been a Rogers fan, he is an excellent nickle but prefer Hall and Smoot in there.

Posted by: Thoroughbred | December 2, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

This defeatist mentality is unbelieveable! What if the Giants thought like that last year? They wouldn't have won a title! And they had every reason to do what you guys are saying. Eli sucked, they only won 3 home games and didn't have a chance against the elite teams! I'm not quitting on this team until the standings say they're done.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 2, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Never been a Rogers fan, he is an excellent nickle but prefer Hall and Smoot in there.

Posted by: Thoroughbred

Wow!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 2, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Those who think Todd Collins should get the nod need to get a clue. The reason he was so successful last year was because he had spent something like 7 straight years learning the system standing right by Al Saunders. That system was predicated on timing and knowing the AREA to throw the ball to before the receiver even got there.

NEWS FLASH- Al Saunders and that offense is LONG gone. Take a look at the preseason tape and numbers for Todd Collins. He struggled and understandably so with a brand new offense. Also, it was made clear in the preseason by BOTH Collins and Zorn that he was having trouble grasping the offense.

He is a very intelligent guy who is a solid backup to have in that he doesn't seem to be phased by pressure or the magnitude of the situation but in no way is he a long term solution. It seems like everyone forgot how difficult this offense is to pick up once the Skins went on a winning streak and we got spoiled. Take a look back at Hassleback in Seattle and see how long it took him to master this offense. Not to mention we seem to be giving Zorn a pretty hard time considering he is a FIRST year head coach. The guy has what it takes to be a great coach and we have seen flashes of that already. He will learn to adjust, cater to the strengths of the team and win!

Posted by: Skins211 | December 2, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

jm220, it comes with the position.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

So basically wave the white flag on a season that has you two games better than last year...got it.

Posted by: brownwood26

Forgive me, you are correct. Let's trot out the same 11 point per game offense the rest of the season because we never say die. Stats be damned, this is obviously the best we can do.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Jeez, enough with the Campbell defense. Who are these guys defending him from? Us? Who cares what we really think? We are just fans.

Z,

You keep saying we should have gotten all this depth from FA. I keep saying there isn't sufficient talent lying around on the cheap to go get. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Stuck playing Blades and Fincher? Blades WAS a draft pick. I thought these guys were supposed to be out there their first year, much less their second? Fincher is a FA, who played very well in preseason and made the team - rightfully so, IMO. He's also their 5th LB? How deep in draft/signed FA talent do you expect them to be at each position?

I'm fine with the WR picks. I wasn't so fine with the TE pick, which I deemed a luxury. I would have preferred another G myself, or a C. Still, all the starters that were projected before the season for our offensive line are healthy...so, as far as the draft goes, unless you think a pick was going to beat out some of these guys, they would be sitting on the bench anyways right now.


Again, they used almost all of their cap room to sign Taylor, which again was universally an applauded move given what happened with Daniels. There wasn't all this money lying around after that fact.

Your whole point....they HAD A FULL DRAFT CLASS WITH A FEW CONSERVATIVE SIGNINGS! Sorry to shout, but I'm going for emphasis here. That's EXACTLY what they had. The prices that teams were paying for some of the players out there were outrageous, and the Redskins stayed away for a change. I think that's a good thing. You seem to think there were quality players out there to be had a good prices...but I didn't see that.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I don't want to bench JC for anybody on the roster right now. He needs and gets the rest of this season. But IF the offense isn't good down the stretch, especially against crappy Cincy and San Fran, what's wrong with bringing in some competition for next year. JC has had plenty of time to get it, and I think he's had an ok season but 10 TD's in 12 games isn't good enough to say that he's the automatic franchise guy forever.

I think he's good and can be that, but I also think he ought to earn it next year if he continues to put up mediocre numbers down the stretch. To me. 4 picks is great but if you at the bottom of the league in points scored who cares? It doesn't bother me if my QB averages a pick a game as long has he averages 2 TDs a game.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

yes it would hurt to put collins back there.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Love Zorn I don't have a problem with him and I think he will be a very successful head coach.

I believe the only reason he hasn't pulled Jason is because he was a QB and feels for him.

Posted by: Thoroughbred | December 2, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

benching campbell=power rankings at the TORRENCE LEVEL

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Dealer you missing the point. The quarterbacks that were listen was in the same system. To think somone is going to jump from one system to another and be good right away is just stupid. To thik other wise show not only a person doesn't have a understanding of sports but life itself.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 2, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

This defeatist mentality is unbelieveable! What if the Giants thought like that last year?

Posted by: brownwood26

The Giants relied heavily on Ahmad Bradshaw, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, and Jay Alford down the stretch and into the playoffs. It's not a defeatist mentality. It's called A-D-J-U-S-T-M-E-N-T-S.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

the only problem with this team is at the very top: vinny.

we should buy a big a $$ bill board like cincy's fans did..."HIRE A GM!!!! not named vinny or danny!"

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Your whole point....they HAD A FULL DRAFT CLASS WITH A FEW CONSERVATIVE SIGNINGS! Sorry to shout, but I'm going for emphasis here. That's EXACTLY what they had. The prices that teams were paying for some of the players out there were outrageous, and the Redskins stayed away for a change. I think that's a good thing. You seem to think there were quality players out there to be had a good prices...but I didn't see that.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse


UMMMMM no they didn't. They resigned rock and collins. They signed nobody, they traded for Taylor in season, Fincher was an late in camp addition, Green was an in season addition, they signed that saftey from the Raiders in camp, they traded for James in camp, and they signed Hall in season.

There wasn't a single off season addition to this roster through free agency.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Benching Campbell would be undoubtedly the most moronic of all the moronic things that the most moronic of all fans could ever ask for.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"yes it would hurt to put collins back there."

I totally disagree and can't be proved right or wrong until they do it, which probably won't happen.


Posted by: Thoroughbred | December 2, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I guess a lot of you forgot about last year playoff game with Collins. That line is played better than this year line and you saw how bad Collins was. What you think he will look better with a worse line? I truly belive some of you hate just so you can make yourselves feel better (and some becuase you never played the sport) which is really sad.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 2, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

excuse they traded for Taylor in camp

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

"But IF the offense isn't good down the stretch, especially against crappy Cincy and San Fran, what's wrong with bringing in some competition for next year."

That competition would have to be for Zorn, not Campbell. When you have Portis, Moss, Cooley, and a QB playing at an ~90 QB efficiency rating and STILL can't put points up on the board, then the problem is the scheme, not the QB.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I believe the only reason he hasn't pulled Jason is because he was a QB and feels for him.

Posted by: Thoroughbred | December 2, 2008 11:59 AM

Wow Mr. Ed...Just wow.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 2, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Funny thing about opinions is everyone has one. Even funnier is when someone hiding behind a keyboard thinks theirs is the only good one.

Posted by: Thoroughbred | December 2, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

That competition would have to be for Zorn, not Campbell. When you have Portis, Moss, Cooley, and a QB playing at an ~90 QB efficiency rating and STILL can't put points up on the board, then the problem is the scheme, not the QB.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Eh, I agree that right now JC isn't the problem with this team but I don't think its scheme either, I think it the Oline is getting beat cause their old and not good anymore.

JC could be doing some things better and some scheme shifts might help, but for example, in the giants game, one play I saw on the replay was a play action bootleg for jc to roll out and throw, he had Cooley on a short out and Moss on a deep crossing pattern. He made the play action fake and turned around and there was a guy in his face. That guy ran right by Jansen without even barely a finger on him so JC dumped it to Cooley I think for the first down but it was like a 5 or 6 yard gain.

Watching it live I was like wow, nice play JC, then they showed the replay from the end zone cam and you see Moss running free down the middle of the field. That's not scheme, and that's not JC, that's Jansen hurting the team, if JC has a second to turn and look he hits Moss deep, instead he's trying to avoid a sack so he hits the first guy he sees.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

U can blame Jason all u want but thats not the only problem. Didn't u guys see Thrash and Kelly drop potential first downs that would have extended the drive but instead forced us to punt. That has been happening all year and the o-line isnt playing to well.

Posted by: lsmooth311 | December 2, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Forgive me, you are correct. Let's trot out the same 11 point per game offense the rest of the season because we never say die. Stats be damned, this is obviously the best we can do.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 11:57 AM

Obviously, it is. Sometimes you have to roll with the devil you know rather than the devil you don't. And if these rookies aren't ready, they're not ready. Throwing them to the wolves for 4 games isn't going to make that situation any better.

As for your Giants example, those guys you listed played because of injuries. And if they listened their fans Eli would have been on the bench to watch them lose in Tampa.

The bottom line is that this team isn't very good offensively. It pisses me off just as much as anybody here. But I'm not in favor of playing rookies if the coaches think they're not better than the guys playing ahead of them.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 2, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

4th, i guarantee you no one would be jumping to get jc. there are only 3 or 4 players on this team that teams would be clamoring for portis, santa and cooley. no one else is a world beater and no team is going to give up anything for anyone other than these three.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 11:39 AM

I'm saying if JC17 was released by the redskins, another team would pick him up and would placed as instant starter on that team........

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Thoroughbred is throwing out some real doozies....wow...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Never been a Rogers fan, he is an excellent nickle but prefer Hall and Smoot in there.

Posted by: Thoroughbred | December 2, 2008 11:52 AM |

Great idea I love my CB getting burned on a go route by a 97(Toomer) year old receiver.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 2, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

A successful professional QB has potential the 1st year, starts to show that potential in the second year, and is a reasonable competent QB in his 3rd year. Jason is in his 4th year and still does not consistently make big plays in big games. Therefore, Jason is at best mediocre.
That in itself is not bad because a lot of mediocre QB's have taken their teams to the Super Bowl by using a good running game to get by their passing deficits. Unfortunately we have a good running game and Jason is not taking advantage of it, therefore he is a sub-par QB.
It is time to play one of the other two QBs to see if they can rise to the occassion or we need to draft/sign a QB.
12/2/2008 10:26:08 AM

Posted by: edeshields | December 2, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

cl, logic, and reason have left the building....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

JC is not the "biggest part of the problem" as JReid states.

But you're not going to upgrade the oline for this weekend. You're not going to upgrade the WR corps for this weekend. You're not going to upgrade at QB by replacing JC with theTodd or theColt.

So right now, opposing defenses are challenging JC to beat them. So far, they're winning.

I think that JC is the only solvable part of the problem right now. He can take more risks, be more decisive. I'll take a few more INTs as a result.

It's exactly what we did to LBM on Sunday, and he beat us. We did the same thing, except that JC threw checkdowns early (you think those 5-yard gains on 3rd & 6 were to the primary receiver?). All I want to see is JC throwing the same pass LBM did to Toomer. He was not open when LBM decided to throw. But he got open, the pass was great, I don't know why Smoot slowed down, but that's all I ask. If the receiver drops the ball, or doesn't get enough separation to make the catch, that's on him. But JC can afford to make that throw a couple more times a game, instead of checking down.
They have to fix the oline next year. They have to evaluate the WRs next year. Right now, JC can make the difference. I believe he has the talent. I believe he can be fast enough and decisive enough. He needs to be the engine of the offense now.

Posted by: daggar | December 2, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

FA + signing + small price tag = conservative free agent signing.

They don't have to be signed in March or so to count.

Again, where were all the deals to be had anyways? I recall it being a smart move to sit back, since the players being signed were getting waaay too much money (Hall?).

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

This blog is a great place for everyone with an opinion to post one.

As for me, I think Zorn is playing a QB that he believes in. Zorn is more qualified to make that call than anyone else. If Jason Campbell doesn't deliver, Zorn will replace him. But I don't think that will happen.

So to those who think otherwise...Phlewwwp!

Posted by: _Stumped_1 | December 2, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Not sure if anybody has mentioned this already, but as much as I'm concerned with adding talent to the O line this offseason, I'm just as interested in whether Joe Bugel returns.

This has been an incredibly difficult year for him and his family, and now his guys -- only the most important unit on the team -- have not been playing very well for most of the season.

I'd hate to see him go out after a very disappointing season, but I wouldn't blame him for walking away... and then of course we'd have a new assistant coach in the mix next season...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 2, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

hahah Frosty got cut by the pack

Posted by: FAB88 | December 2, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

The torches and pitchfork crowd at JC's gate are morons......

That is my behind the keyboard opinion, and I am sticking to it!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

The receivers would be performing much better if they had a QB who could put the ball in their hads while they are still in stride. Instead, Campbell makes his WR's break stride too often. Mostly he never even throws down field.

Zorn knows his limitations, and he is just biding is time before he benches Campbell. Jason will not be a Redskin next year unless he suddenly starts playing like a pro QB and leads us into the playoffs.

Posted by: jmounadi | December 2, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

As for your Giants example, those guys you listed played because of injuries...

But I'm not in favor of playing rookies if the coaches think they're not better than the guys playing ahead of them.

Posted by: brownwood26

Well the fact that the Giants rookies were forced into action because of injuries shows that the coaches aren't omniscient when it comes to who gives the offense the best chance of success.

As far as "Sometimes you have to roll with the devil you know rather than the devil you don't", I'd agree if we had some positives coming out of our "devils". But we don't. I'm not suggesting an overhaul of the offense, I'm suggesting out with the ineffective pieces, and at least take a chance with the new pieces. It's nearly impossible to be as ineffective as Thrash has been as a #3 WR. And lately, it's nearly impossible to be as ineffective as Jansen has been at RT (at least early in the year, he could run block. Not anymore).

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

JC17 on the Radio right now in response to dealer and the group with torches:

Hi Haters. I see you but I ain't going no where......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

oops... that should be Plewwhp!

Posted by: _Stumped_1 | December 2, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

People suggesting benching JC know absolutely nothing about the game, plain and simple. Stop responding and maybe they'll go away.

Posted by: The_Doc | December 2, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

"JC17 on the Radio right now in response to dealer and the group with torches:

Hi Haters. I see you but I ain't going no where......"

It's not up to him is it? I think it takes one more loss and another check down fest to see a change.

Posted by: Thoroughbred | December 2, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Dagger,

We blitzed, but we didn't get to Manning fast enough..not even close to fast enough.

The Giants could get to Campbell with 4 guys.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Holy smokes. That's three articles in less than 24 hours defending and making excuses for Jason Campbell. I am rooting for the kid too, but it's like JLC and JR are part of his posse or something.

I seriously hope the offense looks better this weekend. If JC keeps locking in on Moss, while Flacco goes through his reads while under pressure... things are going to get ugly. Just wait until Madden starts calling for Colt, ignoring the fact that he's not even activated.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | December 2, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Campbell on what's missing:

Big Plays. We all have to play together. It's always one different person who dosen't execute. That deep ball to 'Rand-El' for example was my fault....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

The torches and pitchfork crowd at JC's gate are morons......

That is my behind the keyboard opinion, and I am sticking to it!

Posted by: chrislarry

LOL
JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 2, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

JC on Doc's show just said, the big play is missing and that falls on all of us, whether its drops, or not breaking tackles, the oline not holding their block for that extra second, and for example that deep throw that was an INT Sunday Randel El broke open and I was late with the throw, if I throw that when he breaks its probably 7 or at least gives us the chance for 7.


Well at least he'll man up and admit it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

"The receivers would be performing much better if they had a QB who could put the ball in their hads while they are still in stride."

Posted by: jmounadi

Sorry, no QB in the league can place the ball in the hands of these WRs and make them hold on to the ball. It would also be helpful if more than one of the WRs could get separation. Isn't it funny how only Santana Moss seems to get hit "in stride"? Somehow that's Jason Campbell's fault.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

As always thanks for the information 4th. I hope all is well with you and your family.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 2, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

JC17:

We're ALL in this together (sounds familiar???)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

I guess a lot of you forgot about last year playoff game with Collins. That line is played better than this year line and you saw how bad Collins was. What you think he will look better with a worse line? I truly belive some of you hate just so you can make yourselves feel better (and some becuase you never played the sport) which is really sad.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

First, I am not saying that we should even consider benching JC in favor of Collins. However, JM, your memory is rather incomplete. The one thing about that game I remember is Patrick Kearney absolutely demolishing our starting right tackle all game long and being in Collin's face all day. No quarterback was going to have a good day with that kind of pressure. The four must-win games prior to that were victories mainly due to the crisp performance of Collins, and a defense that rose to the occasion.

Posted by: driley | December 2, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

remember is Patrick Kearney absolutely demolishing our starting right tackle all game long and being in Collin's face all day. No quarterback was going to have a good day with that kind of pressure
driley

I guess JC hasn't had anyone in in face the last 4-5 games. You can't have it both ways. Defending Collins because of pressure but slamming JC because of pressure. Pick one side and stick with it and maybe I would give you some respect.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 2, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Sop pointing at the Seattle playoff game as proof that Collins stinks. He was under more pressure in that game than JC has been in any game this season -- Heyer was getting steamrolled on every play. There were multiple false starts. Check your history -- Seattle is an impossible place to play in the playoffs. And get this, Collins still had us up 14-13. If it wasn't for a terrible drop by Cooley, things could have been very different.

In one month, Collin put together four performances that JC has yet to equal. I mean, there's a reason Gregg Williams told Snyder and Cerrato he wanted it to be an open QB competition and then did everything in his power to get the Jags to sign Collins when he didn't get the job here.

And come on, let's be honest here. If Joe Gibbs was still coach (and I'm happy he's not), who do you think would be under center right now?

That said, I don't think we should make the switch now. JC is far from our only problem and we need to ride it out with him because Collins is 37 and clearly not the future.

But I am saying Collins deserve a little more respect from all of us, most of all the Post. I mean, JLC goes out of his way to defend Campbell. Yet he never writes a positive word about the guy who saved Joe Gibbs legacy.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | December 2, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Yes, the oline is getting gashed, no question, but it's not just one guy, and there is no magic oline potion that will keep that from happening. If it was just Jansen, you can bet that Heyer would be playing.
As an example, the first 3rd down of the game. JC had time. I don't know who the primary was, but he threw very quickly to the downcheck. And Cooley was a level deeper, with three guys around him, so if you wait one more second to drag the defense away from Thrash, maybe he can pitch and run for the 1st. Or maybe, with the middle clogged, you throw deep to Moss.

Posted by: daggar | December 2, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Thanks JM. Everyone is doing well and I hope the same with yours.


****FF Post***

Nate - How do you feel since you gave away your division with a 3 game losing streak at the End of the FF Season?

***End FF Post***

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Last response to you, maybe you'll get it now 2008 Free Agents that changed teams that we could have signed for reasonable money at positions of need:

Oline:
T Kwame Harris
C Justin Hardwick
G Rex Hadnot
G Steve McKinney
OL Jeremy Newberry
OL Shawn Olivea
G Jake Scott
G Keydrick Vincent

DE:
Marques Douglas
Travis Laboy
Bobby McCray
Justin Smith
Or even our old buddy Renaldo Wynn

LB:
Ayanbedego
Boss Bailey
Kevin Bentley
Demario Williams

Those are all guys who were available, all signed with teams other than their 2007 teams, all are significantly contributing to their current teams, and all signed for very reasonable money....a lot less then your Jason Taylor move which was necessary because of a draft that ignored our front 7 and a free agency period that ignored our core.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

At this point it's probably a good idea to go with the rookie receivers, simply because they need the reps and are probably better options than ARE and Thrash.

My guess is that this will be the case with Zorn stepping back the offense. In both cases its probably just a little too late to make a difference this season, but I will cheer this team on until its all over.

Posted by: _Stumped_1 | December 2, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Jasno bashed today for being to supportive and defending the skins....

Classic!

"Stop riding the skins jock JLC and take a critical eye to the team already!"

Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Nobody is bashing Collins...we are just pointing out that he excelled in SAUNDFERS offense and did not look good at all during preseason in Zorn's offense. He even admitted learning the offense was a challenge for him.

Also, because JC was hurt, we have no idea what he would have done those final 4 games last season.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 2, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

JM,

Picking one side does not mean slamming the other. But that might make you feel better. I did not slam JC at all, in fact I defend him vigorously. Your slamming of Collins just shows how you pick one side while blinding yourself to the other. The playoff game last year was still winnable in the fourth quarter. Collin's limitations were exposed, he is not agile nor does he have the strongest arm, but he did not panic and could have won the game. If anything, Heyer cost us that game because he can't block a speed rusher.

Posted by: driley | December 2, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

And while your not going to fix all your problems in one offseason, this front office fixed none of ours. an entire draft and an entire offseason and we maybe improved at SS. That aint good enough.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

I just can't understand how Babe Laufenberg can't get a shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

still say we should've traded Todd Collins last off-season and maybe picked up two backups in the draft (would've been better than a punter!).

Could've got what's-his-name from Kentucky and Colt Brennan really late in the draft (Kentucky QB Andre ?? (can never remember his last name) went after Brennan.)

and yes I DID actually think we should've traded Collins this past offseason. He could've got a decent value. After this year? Not so much. He was hot at the time and people thought he could get it done.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 1, 2008 4:28 PM |

The Truth11 has no idea what the truth really is. How do you trade a player that is a free agent? How do you trade a player that no one else saw as a starter? How do you trade a player that is 62 years old and played 4 games since 1983?

I'm sure in your hallucinations, The Truth11, teams were just dying to sign Todd Collins in the off season. And in your world, even though he was a free agent and any team could sign him if they wanted him, they instead would wait for the Skins to sign him and then trade us multiple first round draft picks for him.

3 words for The Truth11:

Get a clue.

Posted by: Barno1 | December 2, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

The one thing about that game I remember is Patrick Kearney absolutely demolishing our starting right tackle all game long and being in Collin's face all day. No quarterback was going to have a good day with that kind of pressure. The four must-win games prior to that were victories mainly due to the crisp performance of Collins, and a defense that rose to the occasion.

Posted by: driley | December 2, 2008 12:42 PM


Go back and re-watch the Dallas game from the end of last season. Collins was hardly crisp, due to the Cowboys' pass rush. Seattle intensified that pass rush the next week and Collins crumbled. Collins' problem in both games was lack of protection.

The same sort of lack of protection from which Campbell has suffered for most of this season.

Collins' "special skill" was that his understanding of Saunders' offense was second in the world only to Saunders himself. With the departure of Al went any advantage that Collins had.

Posted by: freakzilla | December 2, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

driley I didn't bash Collins at all. I pointed out he didn't play well with somone in his face. Which JC had to deal with for the last couple 4-5 games. I don't have to bash someone to feel good about myself sorry if you do.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 2, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Barno1 | December 2, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

lol, also the truth hasn't paid attention to the fact that the Kentucky what's his name guy was cut by the Giants several weeks back and is currently on the street. And we wouldn't even need to trade Collins to get him.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

A successful professional QB has potential the 1st year, starts to show that potential in the second year, and is a reasonable competent QB in his 3rd year. Jason is in his 4th year and still does not consistently make big plays in big games. Therefore, Jason is at best mediocre.
That in itself is not bad because a lot of mediocre QB's have taken their teams to the Super Bowl by using a good running game to get by their passing deficits. Unfortunately we have a good running game and Jason is not taking advantage of it, therefore he is a sub-par QB.
It is time to play one of the other two QBs to see if they can rise to the occassion or we need to draft/sign a QB.
12/2/2008 10:26:08 AM

And the winner of the RI Dumbest Post of the Day goes too......

Posted by: Predator48 | December 2, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

and his name was Andre Woodson

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

The four must-win games prior to that were victories mainly due to the crisp performance of Collins, and a defense that rose to the occasion.


Posted by: driley | December 2, 2008 12:42 PM |

And the fact that we played sucky teams or teams who were not playing for anything.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 2, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"In one month, Collin put together four performances that JC has yet to equal."

Posted by: MylesMonroe

You're out of your element.

Collins 4 game win streak: 888 yds, 5 TD, 0 INTs, 63.8%, 1 FUM

Campbell's 4 game win streak: 921 yds, 5TDs, 0 INTs, 65.1%, 0 FUM

Campbell was equal or better in every single category.

"did everything in his power to get the Jags to sign Collins when he didn't get the job here."

He did everything is his power to get Collins to be the BACK-UP in Jacksonville to David Garrard, who Campbell is OUT-PERFORMING this year.

"And get this, Collins still had us up 14-13."

Gosh, Collins scored 14 points on the road? Now that's an accomplishment.

"If it wasn't for a terrible drop by Cooley, things could have been very different."

Wait, Collins had a receiver drop a catchable ball. Where have I heard that before...

"He was under more pressure in that game than JC has been in any game this season -- Heyer was getting steamrolled on every play."

Before you utter this phrase again, watch this clip. Watch and remember...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP9_I99jqTI

Jason Campbell is a better quarterback. He's the starter here for a reason.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Barno's beat down of Truth is my fave Barno post of all time. (although I did point out the Trade/FA mistake yesterday) But not with Barno's flair....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Those are all guys who were available, all signed with teams other than their 2007 teams, all are significantly contributing to their current teams

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 12:51 PM

How are quantifying this statement. By a casual look at the LB's on the list, I wouldn't have wanted them. The same can be said of the DE's. You could be right but how are these guys making significant contributions to their teams? Please give some examples.

Posted by: TWISI | December 2, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

justin smith signed with the 49ers for like 40 million if I'm not mistaken

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Did some serious thinking about the Skins and their playoff hopes. And yes, they still have a shot. What personnel options (as opposed to game plan options) do they have that could make a difference?

First, the defense has got to be more effective in creating turnovers and short fields. The only guy who can make a potential difference is Jason Taylor. He's been a game changer before, so its time to let him go for it now.

On offense, its clear that Jansen is not cutting it. Is Heyer better? Don't know, but at some point, I think you have to take that chance. I can't advocate for Reinhart, though.

On the WR front, I've seen enough of Devin Thomas to recognize that he isn't likely to be a playmaker, at least not this year. So go with Kelly as the #2 WR and see what he has. Use ARE as #3.

All of these moves are risks, but we know the current lineup isn't getting the job done.

Stay the course = miss the playoffs.

Its time to take some risks.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Another example: second possession, 3rd & 9. Pocket was crumbling (how do you assess blame when Tuck and Alford do a stunt, Jansen handles Tuck well but is supposed to come off him to stop Alford), but JC has time to find Cooley and make the throw short to him.
Kelly, meanwhile, had gotten inside of his defender and had half a step on him 12 yards downfield. Now, there may have been a safety back there, but an accurate pass has a good chance at a completion for a first down. If there's a safety in the middle, there's increased risk of an int, or a big hit on Kelly, but sometimes you gotta make that throw.

Posted by: daggar | December 2, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

4th, you're really going to talk smack about fantasy F-ball, eh? Nice sportsmanship, bro. Not a peep from you most of the season but now that my team is out of it you're going to kick me? Classy...

My team's collapse began a long way back and was inevitable... oh well.

I was going to congratulate you for winning the SJK division and wish you luck in the playoffs. But since you decided to take the low road, I'll rendezvous with you down there: I hope Zornskins' behemoth squad utterly crushes your team in the playoffs this weekend.

And on the other side of the bracket, you know I'm rooting for AL Zeke to represent the mighty D-bag division against Forrest.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 2, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

i predict next week campbell gets injured on the first play, they put collins in and he gets injured too, so they put brennan in and we win our remaining four games averaging 48 pts per game we win the super bowl, brennan retires at the end of the season.

Posted by: FAB88 | December 2, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

cL,
I agree. Barno and the Truth lock horns...I'm going to step back and just watch.

Posted by: _Stumped_1 | December 2, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Z-Jacks point. We don't do well with the value FA signings. The dude that might have warn out a welcome with old team, younger guys coming off rookie contracts, castoffs from regime changes. What in Gibbs 1 era were called "Plan B Free Agents". IMHO it was inability to get a 3rd WR of this ilk to replace Thrash NOT the development of the Rooks that has hindered that position.

I can't vouch for all the dudes on Jacky-Zs list, but I think his line of thinking on that is spot on.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

LET'S SEE WHAT WAS SAID IN THIS SPACE ABOUT TODD COLLINS A YEAR AGO, SHALL WE?

I will always have a special place in my heart for Todd Collins after all that he has done for this team this year. And in an ideal world, he'll be back next year, resuming his old role and Jason Campbell will go back to being the starter and hopefully much improved in his 4th NFL season and there would be no issues or controversies.

But....Let's be honest people.

Redskins fans, in general, have the shortest memory and least amount of patience of any fans on earth. If Jason Campbell starts out slow next year, loses a game or maybe 2 on a stupid interception or a reckless fumble, the "We Want Todd! We Want Todd!" chants will start echoing down from the stands and talk radio will be flooded with calls demanding Todd be given another chance...

So what's my point? For Jason Campbell to develop into the kind of QB most of us think he can be, Todd Collins can't be on the roster next year. And BELIEVE ME, I'm not suggesting we couldn't still use Todd as a backup (or even as a starter) nor am I saying that I'm not fully appreciate of everything he has done for this team this season. I'm just saying, it's probably in the best interest for the long term progress of this team and our young QB if Todd Collins isn't here next year.

I didn't want to even post my thoughts on the situation until after this season was over...but then this thread popped up.

Posted by: Barno1 | January 3, 2008 2:01 PM

Barno, you are the man. I totally agree that Skins fans have (close to) the shortest memory and least patience in the league (not quite like Philly or Giant's fans, but competitive), but I disagree that the thing to do is can Collins. Its just a matter of force feeding common sense and a longer time horizon to those (us) fans.

What were we talking about again? Damn, when is this coffee going to finish brewing?

[Brought to you by another blogger with the attention span of a hamster.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 3, 2008 2:11 PM

Posted by: Barno1 | December 2, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

"I've seen enough of Devin Thomas to recognize that he isn't likely to be a playmaker, at least not this year"

WOW, thats amazing. Guy has touched the ball 11 times via the pass, and twice on end arounds, and you've come to this conclusion, absolutely PRICELESS.....

You sir, have a gift........

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"my" Jason Taylor move? Are you kidding? Almost everyone here liked that move, along with JLC and most analysts.

Please.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

here's the deal:

1. Campbell needs to be put in shotgun as often as possible. He is most comfortable and effective from that formation and he does not do well dropping back to throw. Zorn surely is clever enough to figure out how to run the ball out of the shotgun; college coaches do it all the time. Even pro teams. Go figure. And, no, I am not going to leave shirley out of this.

2. Replace Jansen with Heyer, at least on obvious passing downs. Even Z admitted that Heyer is the better pass blocker and Jansen just doesn't have the physical skillz anymore to keep up with the better pass rushers.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 2, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Okay, got me on the impressive stats Campbell had in his four game streak.

Then again, Collins played one game in like 50 mph winds. You know, when he helped lead the Skins to an ugly win against the Giants in NY. But you still got me.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not the team would be better with Collins under center. For one thing, I don't think the switch should be made simply because Collins is 37 and we have to find out just what we have in Campbell. The jury is definitely out though and apparently Vinny and Dan feel the same way -- outside of JLC arguing for a contract extension for his mancrush, the fact is the Skins at no point have talked to JC's agent about one, even when he was playing well. Says a lot. Or maybe it doesn't. Never know with our "front office."

I hope JC is the guy. Easy kid to root for. But again, if he keeps locking in on Moss this weekend, or checking down too early, while Flacco goes through his reads while under pressure... well, I expect JLC and Reid are going to have to go even more out of their way to defend their posse leader next week.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | December 2, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Justin Smith signed a 6 year 45 million dollar deal and his cap figure is just over 3 million. Hardly ridiculous money and a third of what Jason Taylor is costing us.

That list was not meant to detail starters for us to replace guys we have, it was meant as guys we could have signed to give us some quality depth at end, LB,and Oline.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I drive a Dodge Stratus!

BIG TIME STUFF!!!!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 2, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

NAte - I wasn't trying to bag on you. I was just wondering how you feel?

I wasn't saying nothing because I didn't want to jinx the 6 game winning streak I needed to get into the playoffs.

Now I know how Gibbs 2.0 feels like.....

Everything else is now house money for me. I'm playing Goliath. I am not expected to win.....

Thanks, though. I need that motivation!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

A successful professional QB has potential the 1st year, starts to show that potential in the second year, and is a reasonable competent QB in his 3rd year. Jason is in his 4th year and still does not consistently make big plays in big games. Therefore, Jason is at best mediocre. That in itself is not bad because a lot of mediocre QB's have taken their teams to the Super Bowl by using a good running game to get by their passing deficits. Unfortunately we have a good running game and Jason is not taking advantage of it, therefore he is a sub-par QB and it is time to start the other QBs to see if they can rise to the occasion or we need to draft/sign a QB.

Posted by: edeshields | December 2, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

zj, the Redskins can cut JT after this year, and it costs them nothing.

What would it cost the 49ers to cut Smith after this year?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

not sure, but I know it wouldn't cost them a 2nd and a 5th......

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

for the record i am not calling for jc's benching. i don't like the way he's playing and i think he is a misfit in whatever zorn is trying to do. zorn got away from what he did in the begining of the year. why? i don't know.

you saw what jc can be in the system he likes: power running and throwing the ball more than 10 yards at a time. the gibbs system. gibbs drafted him for a reason. al saunders wasn't even in gibbs mind then. this is a gibbs football qb. this is a giants football qb. this is not saunders or zorny/westcoastish football qb.

either you keep jc or you keep west coast.
and also to fire vinny.

that's all i'm saying.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

JC deserves some slack for having gone thru so many different offenses, but, we can't forget that, no matter what the system is, when you get down to it, it's still about playing the game: seeing the field, avoiding the rush, throwing accurately, having good judgment for how long to hold the ball and when to run or throw it away.

People who criticize JC are not really criticizing his effectiveness in the system -- afterall, Zorn admitted that he has been "spoon feeding" his system to the offense all season, only giving them what they can handle a little at a time, etc..-- but the criticism is for the intangibles that other NFL qb's seems to have, even rookie qb's like Flacco: steady improvement over time, seeing the field, etc... THAT's what remains a big question mark with Campbell. Does he have the basic qb skill set (which can't be coached) to go with the eventual grasp of the system (which can be coached).

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 2, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"I've seen enough of Devin Thomas to recognize that he isn't likely to be a playmaker, at least not this year"

WOW, thats amazing. Guy has touched the ball 11 times via the pass, and twice on end arounds, and you've come to this conclusion, absolutely PRICELESS.....

You sir, have a gift........

Posted by: BeantownGreg


He's been on the plenty. Its not like we have so many WRs. We don't throw much to the RBs either. When Thomas is out there, he has a chance to shine. So far, lots of chances and little to show for it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

what was the signing bonus for Smith?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

He made the play action fake and turned around and there was a guy in his face. That guy ran right by Jansen without even barely a finger on him so JC dumped it to Cooley I think for the first down but it was like a 5 or 6 yard gain.

Watching it live I was like wow, nice play JC, then they showed the replay from the end zone cam and you see Moss running free down the middle of the field. That's not scheme, and that's not JC, that's Jansen hurting the team, if JC has a second to turn and look he hits Moss deep, instead he's trying to avoid a sack so he hits the first guy he sees.

That, my friends, is why you need a Tivo. That play was a run-action pass. Jansen is run-blocking down the line. He's ten yards away from the blitzing LB. The way the play is supposed to go is if the LB comes free, you dump off to the TE; if the LB covers the TE, the WR should be breaking free in the underneath zone. Jansen looks like a fool on enough plays, you don't need to make up additional material.

Posted by: daggar | December 2, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

"Go back and re-watch the Dallas game from the end of last season. Collins was hardly crisp, due to the Cowboys' pass rush. Seattle intensified that pass rush the next week and Collins crumbled. Collins' problem in both games was lack of protection."

In last year's Dallas game you are correct in that Dallas had a good pass rush. In fact Collins was sacked 3 times, fumbled twice and lost one ball. With that acknowledged he still put up numbers that I would call crisp. He was 22/31 for 244 yards and one touchdown pass. Zero interceptions. Passer rating for a "hardly crip" evening? 104.4

I am not advocating at all for Collins to replace JC. I am just saying that he played pretty darn well last season and was the reason we made it to the playoffs.

Posted by: driley | December 2, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

"When Thomas is out there, he has a chance to shine. So far, lots of chances and little to show for it"

Dude, do you watch the games?? How many times have they thrown the ball to him all year?? Maybe 13 or 14 times??

Are you serious?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

The four must-win games prior to that were victories mainly due to the crisp performance of Collins, and a defense that rose to the occasion.

Posted by: driley | December 2, 2008 12:42 PM |

And the fact that we played sucky teams or teams who were not playing for anything.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 2, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"Sucky teams" or "teams that weren't playing for anything."

Let's examine:

Game 1: Bears. They, like the Skins, were 5-7 and fighting for a playoff spot.

Game 2: Giants. They apparently weren't "sucky" as they ended up winning the super bowl.

Game 3: Vikings. They, like the Skins, were fighting for a playoff spot and were 8-6 at the time.

Game 4: Cowboys. They apparently weren't "sucky" as they were 13-2 at the time and played their starters well into 2nd half and only pulled them after the Skins were already up by double-digits.

Posted by: Barno1 | December 2, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Edeshields,

Your point would be valid if he was in his fourth year playing. However, JC has only competed in two years worth of games (32 to be exact). Based on your formula he is showing potential. Holding a clipboard doesn't count.
By the way Rypien didn't start to turn the corner until the end of his fourth year in a very similar scenario to JC ('89). Rypien never would have won the Super Bowl two years later if Gibbs threw in the towel at the exact same point JC is at now which you state as mediocre and hopeless.
Lastly, please don't try to come up with some lame excuse why that was different because it wasn't.

Posted by: croftonpost | December 2, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

no signing bonus but 20 mil in guarantees, argue it all you want, but would you have a younger more productive end for a third of the cost and that you didn't have to use 2 draft picks to get? Wait until you see what parcells does with those picks.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

lol @ nate and 4th. 4th, you know you had to come stronger than that...

nate, sorry i cost you the playoffs. it wasn't my intention. i was just trying to help out a brother...

so like you guys think we go back to longer passes than 7 yards against balmer this weekend? you think zorny chucks his playbook? hey the gints loss started a 5 game winning streak why can't it do it again?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Nate, if I learned anything from FF, its how much of it is arbitrary. 4th had to sweat it out last night because Steve Slaton (I'd never even heard of him until the season was several games old) goes off for about 28 points in the 2nd half alone. Comes within 1 yard of another TD that would have cost him the division.

As I watched the Skins game at a local pub, I sat next to a guy who must have paid $250 or so for his league. After watching the strange stuff in FF -- there is no way I do that.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Dude, do you watch the games?? How many times have they thrown the ball to him all year?? Maybe 13 or 14 times??

Are you serious?

Posted by: BeantownGreg

Wow, by that token, might as well start James Thrash for ARE. If all it took was being on the field without being able to get open, then we have some of the best WRs in the game right now.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

dealer did his best to help you Nate. He beat me in our head to head.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Beantown, it is possible he doesn't get ballz b/c he ain't open....not your strongest arguement there.


Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Just a note about our field goal kicker is it me or is he missing critical kicks when we need them the most, a chippy agnst.Seattle(playoffs)another one same place(makeable this year)a momentum builder(an easy one)agnst.Giants,I like Suisham but it seems he's the victim of changing holders and it affects his timing. just a thought.Lots of talk about JC I like him as our QB but lets be real there's not a lot to work with on offense after Moss and Portis and the O line as i stated before is porous and until that is shored up all bets concerning Jason Campbell are off!!.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 2, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

this draft class is like a recession we can call it a bust cuz it's looking a lot like a bust but we won't know it until a year from now.

so i'm getting confused. people who are supporting jc are also saying he does not have the receivers but are also the ones defending this draft class. either jc is bad or the draft class is bad. which one is it?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Z,

Depth at D-line?

D-line is not a problem. In fact, the defense in total is good enough for this team to contend. I think if the Redskins had known that Evans would perform as he has, they may have stayed away from Taylor and his price, but they, along with everyone else, weren't sure what he would bring starting every game. Anyways, the problem is the offense.

Depth at O-line? I'd like some, but the top six guys are essentially healthy, and capable of playing...so the depth would be sitting here watching with the rest of us as of now. I want depth for the coming years though, that's for sure.

Depth at LB? I have no problem with Blades in the game, or with Fincher being the 5th guy. Every guy on the team can't be under a 7 digit contract. Some guys - on every team - are minimum contract guys. LB is something they need to address for their future, but for this year I think they are fine and again, the defense has not been the problem.

So the three positions you want to spend money on this past offseason? Unless you wanted to throw big money at a prime player, those guys are sitting on the bench right now, or no better than who is out there.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

There are two sides to every story. I am a Soup supporter, but I admit, I am having doubts. On one side, I TOTALLY understand that he hasn't been able to do a whole lot due to the O-Line stinking like poo-poo. But on the other, he's not the only QB with a poo-poo O-Line. One example, Ben Rothlisburger. Ben has gotten his buttox kicked at least just as much as Jason has, but he still makes things happen with his offense. Ben can still put points up on the board with a poo-poo O-line. Is it because Willie Parker is a better running back than Portis? Is it because Santonio Holmes is a better route runner than Moss? I don't think so.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | December 2, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

So Thomas is never open, right. Of course he's not.....

psp, I wish we signed DJ Hackett, because he'd play at a Torrence level.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Collins was great last year. Nobody should be taking that away from him. But he is not better than Jason Campbell. Not in any sense. He had one thing going for him, and that was an intimate knowledge of Al Saunders' playbook, which if given time has proven to be extremely successful. That aspect is now gone.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Dealer I have to agree with you. It does seems that Zorn got away from what he was doing earlier in the year. I remember the Saints game. The play calling seems like night and day compared to the last 4-5 games.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 2, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

So Thomas is never open, right. Of course he's not.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg

No, you're right. Jason Campbell is ignoring Devin Thomas on purpose. It's probably because he's got an "agenda" against him.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

psp, didn't say that. Don't make stuff up.

Where did anyone say that Thomas isn't getting open from the Team/Coach perspective??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

BTW here are JC's qbr in games he won and lost this year.

in losses 81.2, 93.1, 49.2, 73.4, 67
in wins 104.1, 112.2, 108.4, 73.3, 97, 127.4, 88.7

thats 4 games with a 100 + QBR in wins, a solid rating 80+ in 2 losses. In fact i challenge people to a game JC lost us this year? Its not like last season when he threw an int. that would be the go ahead score. The Rams loss was on a CB whom we wont name and most the other losses were on the offense as a whole not performing.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone actually watch these videos? Everyone on here is at work. We can't really listen to the videos then can we?

Posted by: dante232 | December 2, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Greg, Thomas has been on the field plenty. he has had the opportunity to secure a starting role, or at least #3 WR role. He hasn't done it. Why? Wrong routes? Not blocking? Not open?

For most of the year, the Skins have had only 4 WRs on game day. And Thrash not a #3 WR.

Its time to see if Kelly can be a legit #2 WR.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

So the three positions you want to spend money on this past offseason? Unless you wanted to throw big money at a prime player, those guys are sitting on the bench right now, or no better than who is out there.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

your killing me man, during the offseason we had a starting lb with a shredded knee and Marcus who hasn't stayed healthy for three years. and you don't think adding a reasonably experienced veteran for a reasonable contract (somebody from that list I gave you) wasn't a good idea. I don't know what you've been watching but Blades looks over matched, and best suited for special teams, Marcus has been hurt all year again, and we are flat out lucky that Rocky has been durable.

By dline I mean Dend, you didn't see any DT's on that list did you? if you had added a Dend capable of playing behind Daniels who has been hurt every year he's been here instead of having just a bunch of 7th rounders and UFA's behind (and beantown this means don't point at the Alex Buzbee injury as the real problem)then the Jason Taylor move wouldn't have been necessary and then Evans would also be what he should be, a reserve.

And the Oline, well yeah its been healthy, which is pretty miraculous but its still been really bad, wouldn't it be nice to have some legitimate other options to play so that no name defensive tackles (the Cowboy's guy) don't have career games and we give our franchise Qb some time? I mean Rabach has been terrible, Thomas and Kendal very weak, Jansen an abject failure, and Samuels is hurt. But what's behind them, an second year UFA who can't play both tackle spots at the same time, Fabini who is a very old very limited bakcup, a 3rd round rookie, and at center.....well nobody.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

our entire offseason yielded one good player and several players who might be good someday.....and gave away 3 picks for next year.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone actually watch these videos? Everyone on here is at work. We can't really listen to the videos then can we?

Posted by: dante232 | December 2, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Nope. Have not watched a single one of those videos. They don't even come up on my computer, it says I'm missing the plug in.

Posted by: Barno1 | December 2, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

My point Greg, is that if we stay the course, we miss the playoffs. So we need to look at changes and how they might improve this team. Will Kelly be a good WR? Don't know. Is it a risk worth taking? At 7-5 and a game back for the last WC spot ... yes. Same with starting Jason Taylor and Stephon Heyer. Risks worth taking.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Just for you Greg, from ESPN.com.

"Our receivers were not getting separation on their routes and therefore we were getting hammered as soon as the catch was made," Zorn said. "We had wide receivers running poor routes."

He called out ALL the WRs for running poor routes. That includes Devin Thomas. If the guy ran good routes and could get open, he'd see the ball. Nobody is to blame but himself (and maybe Zorn as the coach).

As of right now, he is not a playmaker in the receiving game. Not even close.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Let's examine:

Game 1: Bears. They, like the Skins, were 5-7 and fighting for a playoff spot.

Game 2: Giants. They apparently weren't "sucky" as they ended up winning the super bowl.

Game 3: Vikings. They, like the Skins, were fighting for a playoff spot and were 8-6 at the time.

Game 4: Cowboys. They apparently weren't "sucky" as they were 13-2 at the time and played their starters well into 2nd half and only pulled them after the Skins were already up by double-digits.

Posted by: Barno1 | December 2, 2008 1:24 PM |

The Bears were sucky at 5-7

The Giants were sucky at that time they then got on a roll and won the superbowl.

The Vikings had no passing game what so ever we stopped there run they sucked.

The Cowboys were the most over rated 13-3 team in the histroy of football, that is why the Giants were able to beat them in the playoffs. We stopped there run and Romo played terrible and was then pulled because the game meant nothing to them.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 2, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

there is absolutely no reason for these videos. i think jason doesn't like to write or it takes him longer to write than to do these videos and he's just lazy like me. i would totally do something like that.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Jason is not a franchise QB, after 4 years it is evident he is mediocre at best. At his stage in his career his best potential is on display every week, and it is not very encouraging. Potential is a word you use to describe first and second year players, not a fourth year player after 5 pre-season games and 12 regular season games. The 7 to 14 point range is what we can expect continually against good teams.

Posted by: edeshields | December 2, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

ROFL!

Doc just described the way he'd recruit in college or sign free agents. I'd take the top two guys I'm looking at, we'd go out to dinner, I'd sit'em down and order one meal. The guy who grabs it first is the guy I sign, the guy who waits, I don't need him....He said this aint a nice game, and I want the guy the if a stranger walks up an insults them will smack em right in the mouth, I want guys with some animal in them....

That's hilarious.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

psp, was that piece from ESPN, was that for just the Giants game, or the whole year?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

So, Flounder, the fact that we won 3 of the 4 games on the road means nothing as well? The fact is we played teams that were still had a viable chance in the playoffs or were playing for a field advantage. None except for Dallas gave up, and still Dallas did play their starters for over half the game. As I recall most of those games were night, nationally televised games, games that no team wants to lose at home. To state that those four teams were
"sucky" does not make sense.

Posted by: driley | December 2, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

how the hell do you run poor routes this far into the season???????????? it's your scheme zorny!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

D.C. Officials Considering Opening Bars 24-7
The D.C. Council is considering legislation today that would allow bars to serve alcohol until 5 a.m. -- three hours longer than current regulations allow -- and remain open 24 hours a day from Jan. 17 through 21 to serve crowds in town for the inauguration.

The bill, offered by council member Jim Graham (D-Ward 1), is up for a vote at today's legislative meeting.

"This is absolutely a unique opportunity, and we want our night life to participate in all of the activities and events during the Inauguration," Graham told Post reporter Hamil R. Harris today.


By David A Nakamura | December 2, 2008; 12:05 PM ET

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

"Does anyone actually watch these videos? Everyone on here is at work. We can't really listen to the videos then can we?"

Posted by: dante232 | December 2, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Retirement is a great thing. Kids are gone. Wife sleeps or watches soaps
and I can do what I want.

Porn and Redkins videos included! My wife thinks it's just Skins!

Posted by: captjim | December 2, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

*** FF ***

Took a quick look a the FF matchup with Forrest. He's got 2 games which dominate his results. NO vs ATL. He's got Brees, Lance Moore and Roddy White. Tough group there. 52 points from those 3 the first time they met.

Other game is jints vs phi. He's got westbrook and the jints defense. Plus he might use curtis or toomer as the flex guy.

The ESPN projection for him is 122 points, for me its 98.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

psp, was that piece from ESPN, was that for just the Giants game, or the whole year?

Posted by: BeantownGreg

It was said after the Giants game. Take that how you wish.

I'll take it in reference to his "execution" quotes as the problem for this offense the last 4 weeks. The WRs are not getting it done right now.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

I think it's a combination of many things. Most of the detractions have some aspect of truth. And most of the positive obersvations have merit as well. No one player is costing us anything. It's a team sport and they have to play that way.

But they can do this. They just need to know they can do it & perform. The confidence is down and it doesn't need to be.

Where's our "Invincible"? That's probably what we need more than anything.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 2, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

The WRs are not getting it done right now.

Posted by: psps23

I'll also add that the o-line and the coach aren't either.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

of course you will.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1 - Those predictions suck!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

*** FF ***

For me, the FF is good news, bad news. I've got a favorable schedule for the most part, but the guy who has been carrying me, DeAngelo Williams, has a tough matchup vs Tampa.

Reggie Wayne has been a disaster of late. Take out the 1 long TD he had on a tipped ball -- and he's been Randle El for the last 6-7 games. Hope he gets healthy vs the Bengals. Rivers has been a mixed blessing with some good games mixed with some disasters of late. 2 of the last 3 weeks in single digits. He goes against Oakland on Thursday. He had just 12 points vs them earlier in the year.

On the upside, Larry Fitzgerald plays vs StL. I've got 2 RBs who aren't starters, but get touches. LenDale goes against Cle and Chester Taylor against Det. Good matchups at least.

My wildcard is the Pack defense. They've been negative points 2 weeks in a row. But they get turnovers and play Houston, so maybe they can pull off a strong game.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

FF licks taint.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | December 2, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1 - I tell you what, Free Agents is slim pickings!

I've prob had the most acquisitions @ 32. I was going through that FA roster like crazy trying to make a come back (and it worked).......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Roger Causak just said on the John Thompson show that Pierce apparently took the gun that Plax shot himself with and tried to hid it from the cops for him.

He then said, depending on how serious the City wants to get and specifically the mayor, that they could go after Pierce harder than Plax because Pierce is also guilty of possession of an unlicensed firearm if he took the gun and was walking/driving around with it, and also if they can prove his intent was to hid it from the cops to protect Plax then he is guilty of obstruction of justice as well. Wow.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Pierce deserves that and so much more.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Dik, we need an "Invincible" but Vinny keeps bringing in "Radio."

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 2, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

I think AP will be OK since he is fully cooperating with the investigation.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Just a point about Devin Thomas:

Yes, he hasn't got many "opportunities" according to us watching the games on TV but it's not like JC is ignoring him when he is wide open. Sure, he is probably not going to try and squeeze balls to him in real tight coverage because (A. thomas hasn't learned the plays B. hasn't thrown to him enough in practice C. has no confidence in him, take your pick) but it's not like JC is so dumb to not pass to a wide open guy. He obviously is not getting separation. Only time I have seen him WIDE open was on that TD that was called back by penalty and let's be honest, Thrash could have made that play. It worked based on the play action and deceptiveness not the route running of the wide receiver. All he had to do was catch it and run straight. Kind of like that reverse he scored on. The play setup and blocking was great. All Devin had to do was turn the corner and run straight. Made a HELL of an effort to get across the pylon though which he deservers a lot of credit for.

Not saying he is a bust not saying he will be the savior but clearly the kid needs time to get acclimated.

Posted by: Skins211 | December 2, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

4th, I got off to a good start, so I was at the bottom of the waiver picks. Lots of guys I tried to pick up got taken before I could grab them. Anthony Gonzales, Carnell Williams, Lance Moore, Benard Berrian, Pierre Thomas, Donnie Avery, Kevin Faulk -- all guys I put in claims for that I didn't get. One major screw-up ... I picked up Steve Breaston and then let him go early in the year.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Screw the i-pod... All I want for Christmas is a v-POD.

http://www.cnet.com/8301-13553_1-10109798-32.html

Posted by: 4-12 | December 2, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

As opposed to the Mipod (see Simpsons, The for a description)?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

I had drafted Berrian but dumped him after he did nothing the 1st 4-5 weeks. I blame him for my slow start. Once he caught on fire, someone already picked him up....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Still thinking that the Skins need to look at themselves and say what is needed to get into the playoffs. That 'stay the course' will not work.

Andre Carter isn't working, Jansen isn't working and Devin Thomas isn't working. Carter can be replaced by a guy who has been a major impact guy. Heyer had beaten out Jansen in preseason. Kelly is an unknown, but the downside risk is small since Thomas hasn't produced much.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I hope Burress and Pierce go to jail for a long time. This may not be the popular opinion, I don't know because i have read none of the posts this week, but i don't care, they should both go to jail. if it was you or I, we would be in jail now because most dont have six figures to post bail.

Pierce should not have played sunday, the giants knew he was involved, and turned a blind eye because they needed him. i don't have a big issue with it except that Coughlin tries to come off as holier than thou until it comes to a divisional game. Check the record, he suspends players against teams his team should maul anyway, never when it means he might actually lose something. big deal.
As for the game, both rookie wr made progress in spite of the kelly drop and zorn needs to quit overthinking the game.

"Let me see 3rd and less than a yard.... I should run, but theyare expecting that, so I should pass, but they know that i know they are expecting that so i should run, wait if I know that they know that I know that they are expecting it, they won't be expecting...... delay of game...Damn, ok 3rd and 6...... 5 yard incomletion to cooley...damn punt again....how come we cant convert?"

Posted by: dbrine1261 | December 2, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

RUMORS FLY OF MORA TO HUSKIES
Posted by Mike Florio on December 2, 2008, 12:26 p.m.
Two years ago, then-Falcons coach Jim Mora sealed his fate in Atlanta by saying in a radio interview that he’d bolt the Falcons (as Bobby Petrino would do a year later) if Mora had the opportunity to become the head coach at the University of Washington, his alma mater.

Mora was later fired by the Falcons, apparently due in part to his surprisingly candid display of disloyalty to his employer.

And so he landed as an assistant coach with the Seahawks. With head coach Mike Holmgren deciding to make 2008 his final year with the team, the Seahawks entered into an agreement earlier this year that will make Mora the head coach after Holmgren goes. (An exception to the Rooney Rule permits such arrangements, even though we think that such arrangements circumvent the spirit of the rule.)

But now the Washington job is open, and rumors are flying that Mora is getting the job.

We won’t be surprised if it happens. Mora had clear his feelings for the position in 2006, and with the struggles of the 2-10 Seahawks and his membership on the current coaching staff, there’s a chance that Mora would instantly be on the hot seat from Day One on the job.

____________________________

Do we see JZ splitting DC to go back to the Seahawks?

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Jason is not a franchise QB, after 4 years it is evident he is mediocre at best. At his stage in his career his best potential is on display every week, and it is not very encouraging. Potential is a word you use to describe first and second year players, not a fourth year player after 5 pre-season games and 12 regular season games. The 7 to 14 point range is what we can expect continually against good teams.

Posted by: edeshields | December 2, 2008 1:53 PM

Hey Ed, You sound like you just woke up in week 8 and started watching the redskins. What were you thinking when JC was winning, and the OL was healthy, and CP was healthy, and we were scoring in the 20s, and beating good teams (PHI, ARI, NO, DAL).

The problems on this team go beyond Jason Campbell. Look at the Rams. No one denies Bulger is a good QB, but give him injuries to his OL and to Steven Jackson and guess what happens this year. His team can't score or win consistently either. And Bulgers been in the same system for his ENTIRE CAREER!

Its easy to blame a QB that you don't want to succeed anyway, but you're not being realistic at all.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 2, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Thats it. I'm getting rid of all those semi-automatic assault rifles my cousin Dennis has stored in my basement.

Posted by: _Stumped_1 | December 2, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

NATE - that was SJKing HILARIOUS!! hahahahaha

Needed that...

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 2, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I think people don't understand the seriousness of the Plax incident. If that gun was pointed a different direction, it could have badly injured/killed someone.

But, I don't think you can blame AP too much. He didn't bring the gun with him. And what he did after the fact and why is debateble at this point until what his intent was more clearer.....

That said, Plax is Pacman Jones Stupid.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Do we see JZ splitting DC to go back to the Seahawks?

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 2:44 PM

How would this work? Snyder would trade him to the Seahawks for a second round pick, and then Snyder would go after the next big thing? The one that got away? The last big thing?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 2, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Do we see JZ splitting DC to go back to the Seahawks?

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 2:44 PM


Why would go to a team that has more holes than this one!

If this is true, then how bad does it suck to be a Seahawks fan. Your team basically mails in the '08 season for a lame duck coach only to be jilted by the coach-elect in Mora.

Ouch!

Posted by: Predator48 | December 2, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

*** FF ***

The waiver pickings are rather slim in a 16 team league with up to 12 spots per team for WRs/RBs. There are 32*4 slots for RB/WR starters or 128 total. But 192 FF roster slots. So the ability to make a major change after the draft is limited to guys near the top of the waiver wire. Usually its someone who gets promoted due to an injury to a starter.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

But, I don't think you can blame AP too much. He didn't bring the gun with him. And what he did after the fact and why is debateble at this point until what his intent was more clearer.....

That said, Plax is Pacman Jones Stupid.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 2:51 PM


Yeah, but if he took possession of the gun in order to hide it to cover for his boy then he's violating the same law that Plax did.

AP did hire a lawyer for a reason.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 2, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know why Smoot was covering Toomer on that TD? We have Springs, Rogers and Hall. Seems like Smoot is 3rd or 4th in that group. So why is he man coverage on their #1 guy?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 2, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

z, if you're gonna ask that, then you might as well ask why the cb's were 10 yards away from the wr's, when they were killing us on 7 yard slants.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"Anyone know why Smoot was covering Toomer on that TD? We have Springs, Rogers and Hall. Seems like Smoot is 3rd or 4th in that group. So why is he man coverage on their #1 guy?

Posted by: zcezcest1"

Looked like we started the game with Rogers and Smoot as the top 2 "outside" corners, Springs was the slot man, and Hall was the dimeback.

After that play, Hall replaced Smoot. I suspect that's how we play the rest of the season.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

On the WR front, I've seen enough of Devin Thomas to recognize that he isn't likely to be a playmaker, at least not this year.

Posted by: zcezcest1

Can I ask exactly how you can made this assumption already?? What are you basing this from??

Posted by: rachel216 | December 2, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Your "Unrestricted Look" is about as "unrestricted" as this paper's "look" at Obama during his campaign. What a joke. So far the only problem you and your collegues have discovered about Jason Campbell is his inability to slide properly. Wow! What insite! What considered objectivity! In the WaPo, Jason Campbell has done nothing wrong. Each mistake was not his fault, the poor guy, he is a victim! I find you backhandedly demeaning!
Now that the bloom is off the Redskin's rose, folks are asking questions, questions you never bothered to ask or more likely pushed aside. Now you mock and assign ulterior motives to those who are asking the questions. How weak! Because of you, Jason LaConfornia (sp), Wilbon et al- Jason Campbell is the most overrated QB in the NFL. You rushed to anoint and continued fawning without ever assigning responsibility (sounds familar)or assessing Campbell's faults- He has none we are told.- "It's a new offense", "his 185th coach in 4 seasons" "the (#1 rushing)O-line is to blame, it's the play calling"," those rookie receivers", "Vinnie Cerrato" or probably it's those damn right wing conservatives! No, it's you inane and phony reporters. Jason Campbell is our QB and our best QB but he is not the messiah and he is not an MVP as you and others have claimed in these pages. He is an average at best NFL QB at this point in his career. I'm a fan, rooting for him. Instead of mocking those complaining about Jason Campbells' play, how about you, stop the beyond rooting, adoration and start with some objectivity or is that expecting too much?

Posted by: sheik1 | December 2, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Hey Predator48 - I was thinking about last year how it got so much better when Collins came on with the same line and same RB.
As far as the first 8 games even though we won , it was with defense. The scoring problem has been with us all year - next to last in that category is not a good thing.
As far as injuries, all teams have their share this time of year, not an excuse. Actually we are far better off this year than last with the offense.

Posted by: edeshields | December 2, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

To croftonpost - Most QB's spend the 1st 2 years building a foundation and they challenge for a starting position by the 3rd year. Most of their playing in the 1st couple of seasons is in the pre-season, unless there is an injury.
Is you point they QBs have the right to sit on the bench for the 1st 2 years and learn for 4 years while they are playing sub-par? That is not the way it usually happens, you play when you can win.

Posted by: edeshields | December 2, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

But Shiek, how do you feel... don't hold back or anything... lol.

I think their posturing of Soup could have been a response to the 'Cult of Colt'. They certainly had the #'s to back their reporting, though. His passer rating was excellent and he didn't have any pics... That's a good thing, right?

Yes, Soup has problems - but do our other QB's have the tools to deal with our current problems.. no.

I wish we had Leftwich!! He's a Redskin at heart just like D'Hall...

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 2, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

DikShuttle,
Whoa, your right. I need to slow down the key tapping and maybe edit a little :)!
This WaPo-all out Campbell campaign is a bit much though. The campaign started way before the C of C (a red herring if I ever saw)or any other talk radio(code word)controversy. I'm lovin' him as our QB but I can see the warts. I'm ill because I lamely thought "reporters" with agendas were isolated to the other sections of the papers.

Posted by: sheik1 | December 2, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

COntrary to belief, running routes is one of the hardest things to do good in football. Thats why Jerry Rice was so good for so long! When Devin learned to run crisp routes he will be good.. Did you see the explosiveness he had in him on the td play last week?? Just imagine that when he starts getting open and catching the ball... And Malcom will be good too.. He has the ability to get up and get to the ball, but hey people make mistakes and drop balls he will get it... Have patience people... We DONT even need to talk about WR actually.. the PROBLEM IS THE LINE and the D-LINE. If that was fixed it would make ALOT of people look better... Trust me on that!!!!!!!

Posted by: cocodc1 | December 2, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is a better quarterback. He's the starter here for a reason.
_____
I'm sure you said the same thing last year.. even when he was losing 4 games in a row. Cause you probably think if JC didn't get hurt he would have turned it around to and won those last 4 games and been named the player of the month in Dec. Hey I'm sure there are some Vince Young fans in Ten, looking at a bunch of stats that say Young is the best QB on that team and the Titans would be 12-0 if he was the starter. All I know is win or lose Zorn is sticking with Campbell.. so chances are we will never know IF the Redskins would do better if Collins was playing now. But I happen to think they would.. and I'll tell u what I thought the SAME WAY a year ago...

Posted by: sovine08 | December 2, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

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