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An Unrestricted View on Zorn

Jason Reid makes the case for keeping Jim Zorn.

By Cindy Boren  |  December 17, 2008; 11:48 AM ET
 
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Comments

Firing Zorn = Epic Fail.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 17, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Fire Vinny and get a list of players needed from the coaches and just use Mel Kiper's draft guide; the results would have to be better.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Red -

If the eagles were really good, they would have actually won a SB during their most opportun time, and they didn't. If I was a fan, I would be embarassed as much as I am with our very own team.

I would call them choke artist, not a sucessful team......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Just my opinion, but while it's not that the west coast CAN'T succeed here, it does have the odds stacked against it. I'd definitely be a fan of a more hybrid, downfield passing system - similar to the one New England employs.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 11:49 AM

Ok, you make a compelling argument, but what you have to understand is that their offense hasn't been their problem in recent years. It's been their inability to keep their QB healthy, questionable coaching decisions, and I just think their window for success is just plain closing on them due to age of the roster. Your points are valid, but if Green Bay can run the WCO and win a Super Bowl (doesn't get much colder than Green Bay) then I don't see why it can't be done in D.C.

My problem with the WCO in D.C. is that it goes away from what this franchise has been for much of its existence. It's the antithesis of what Lombardi, Allen and Gibbs did here and it gets away from what this team's identity SHOULD be. One of the things I admire about the Steelers is that they are the same team they've ALWAYS been and seldom stray from the formula that's won them 5 Super Bowls. I just wish the Skins could have that same dedication to smash-mouth football...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 17, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

That's what I was trying to say Bwood.

You're just more articulate than me. English wasn't my best subject in any grade....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

J Reid makes some good points, this is not all Jim Zorns fault, and the owner and the GM should come out and admit that this team needs to be overhauled and that there have been mistakes made by everyone.

Yeh right and Monkeys might fly out of my but.

Snyder and Vinny need to come out and say something but they probably wont because they are both chicken sh!ts.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I would settle for a f-ing offense that could score 21 points a game, I don't care what you call it.

Call it the offense that scores 21 points a game.

Call it the DC 21 offense.

Who gives a sh!t what you call an offense that from reports I heard, a group of 5th graders could watch and come up with a plan to stop it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Since everyone is talking about blowing the team up; I'm assuming this will be on both sides of the ball right?

What are the thoughts of a 3-4 defense in D.C.?

Maybe its just me, but it just seems that these days good quality defensive linemen are harder to come by than good quality linebackers.

If dumping the entire defensive line is what it'll take to make the transition to the 3-4, I ask, where is the downside?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 17, 2008 11:32 AM

Not to be self-serving, but I sort of did run this idea by the blog before the big homie, oldtimer...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about a 3-4 scheme on Defense

Sign Hanyesworth or draft Terrance Cody
Demetre Evans DE
Lorenzo Alexander DE (very athletic)
(Very strong interior line to free up Linebackers)
Chris Wilson OLB
Rocky MacIntosh (if Healthy) OLB
London Fletcher ILB
Sign Bart Scott ILB

Posted by: oldtimer4 | December 17, 2008 11:46 AM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have to bring in new D-coordinator, and new personnel to run the scheme, since the talk now-a-days is to take C4 to the squad, what would be the downfall in the switch?

Brown, I only run the 3-4 when I'm not playing the CPU.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 17, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Spot on analysis - the bottom-line is and will remain that as long as Cerrato calls the shots on personnel NO COACH could make this work. Any other professional that squandered millions of dollars and resources the way Cerrato has here, with such undeniable proof of failure would be sent packing - yet he gets a free pass year after year. It's disgraceful that Snyder and his yes-man cannot communicate to the fans their sentiments or long-term vision = their clearly isn't one. My tickets are cancelled in 3 weeks!

Posted by: colbysmommy917 | December 17, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins make the playoffs if:

They win their two remaining games.

The Bucs*, Falcons, and Eagles lose out, and the Bears lose at least one of their remaining two games.

The Redskins get in by virtue of a better conference record than the Falcons, Bears, and Eagles (and the sweep against Philly).

With the Bucs, both the Skins & Bucs end up with 8-4 conference records, so I think the next tie-breaker is common opponents? I haven't dug that deep yet.

At any rate, it's a highly unlikely - though still technically possible - path to the playoffs.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 17, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

On that last post re: Holmgren ... I dunno, but Zorn COULD use a little breathing room, a little help, esp. on time management and use of coach's challenges. Holmgren might be the only face saving way to do that. The titles would need to be right ... make it look like Holmgren is going into semi-retirement (both for the purposes of Zorn optics, as well as Mrs. Holmgren optics). Short term deal with Holmgren. Just so that Zorn doesn't have to be spread so thinly for the time being. He was hired as the OC ... that is what he should be allowed to master first.

Also, on other suggestions to help Vinny (assuming he cannot be fired) ... I know that Ted Sundquist (former Denver GM before Shanahan got to keep the garage door opener to himself) ... and the Broncos certainly have shown the ability to restock a backfield from the RB shelf ... plus Bobby DePaul, the top pro-personnel guy in Chicago (who the Skins have tried to emulate on defense) ... give me a little time to research offensive lines and I'll find the GM who built the good ones.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn adjusted his Offense after the Giants opener. Played to talents & strengths of the team. Thats when we got on our roll, were establishing an identity.

But I think than he got confidant again and instead of continuing to develop the hybrid that would have made him successful, the "Chesapeake Bay Offense" he was empowered to again try to instill his scheme (all coaches who are addicted to their "scheme" suck) which derailed the momentum and cut the nuts off aspects that our players excel at.

Combine this with injuries and here we are.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

even though it would be very "redskin-like" to potentially overpay and sign Haynesworth, but, at least in the short-term, it would be great for our pass-rush. yes, we STILL need to use THIS DRAFT to get linemen, but haynesworth is only in his 6th season and 27 years old. he's gotta have at least 3-4 very productive seasons left, right? It would open up everything for our D-line. we wouldnt have to blitz to get pressure.

btw, the holmgren idea is borderline crazy. why would you bring your current coach's ex-boss here to undermine his authority? yes, Zorn might have been over his head with his job this season, but first year of a new job, and first year of a new scheme--i like to look at this season as a consistent .500 season rather than the up and down that it has been.

with an offseason of adjustments, development of kelly/thomas, and "studying" of the Wildcat offense, this team can potentially have 3 productive/intimidating receivers, and another (Randle El) who can have defenses guessing with his passing abilities.

Posted by: kman2 | December 17, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

If you hire a guy from obscurity, a la Zorn, you have to give him a minimum of three years to develop or you're never going to be successful. Preseason, I would've been happy with 8-8 and we're going to finish close to that. This is not a playoff team, and I for one am glad they are out of the hunt (albeit not mathematically) so the front office doesn't continue to believe they're one big free-agent acquisition away from a championship. So that maybe they can finally get real about rebuilding this team.

As a fan, I give Zorn a pass simply because of his inexperience, not to mention the roster he was stuck with. It's not his fault Danny & Vinny wooed him into taking a position he wasn't qualified for. Sure he's made mistakes, but that is to be expected of a first time head coach. You don't hire a guy like that if you're unwilling to have patience for growing pains.

Count me among those who envy Raider Nation, they'll be free of Al Davis long before we'll be free of Danny & Vinny.

Posted by: skinsskinsskins | December 17, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

"With the Bucs, both the Skins & Bucs end up with 8-4 conference records, so I think the next tie-breaker is common opponents? I haven't dug that deep yet."

We defeated the Lions, so have they. We're 1-1 against Dallas, they're 0-1. We're 1-0 against NO, they're 1-1. We win that tiebreaker.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

can someone cue Jim Mora press conference?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

One of the things I admire about the Steelers is that they are the same team they've ALWAYS been and seldom stray from the formula that's won them 5 Super Bowls. I just wish the Skins could have that same dedication to smash-mouth football...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 12:01 PM

So right, so true. The Steelers have always been 1) we're going to run the ball and 2) we're going to lock you down on defense. This is such a copycat league, and its good to know that some teams don't get caught up in the hype. But sometimes I think you must adjust schemes to fit your personnel, or like the Steelers, draft and bring in players that are going to fit in with what you're doing.

I don't think the Steelers would've made a move to sign Jason Taylor if they ran a 4-3. Something else the Steelers do that I respect them for; with the exception of Joey Porter, they seem to know when players are washed.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 17, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Count me among those who envy Raider Nation, they'll be free of Al Davis long before we'll be free of Danny & Vinny.

Posted by: skinsskinsskins | December 17, 2008 12:12 PM

I don't envy ANYTHING about the Raiders...as bad as Davis is there could be a California version of Danny and Vinny waiting in the wings!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Some "insiders" on extremeskins who have been right about stuff before are saying Zorn is definitely done as head coach and has been told this.

What a disaster.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | December 17, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 17, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I don't think the Steelers would've made a move to sign Jason Taylor if they ran a 4-3. Something else the Steelers do that I respect them for; with the exception of Joey Porter, they seem to know when players are washed.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 17, 2008 12:20 PM

Damn right they wouldn't have made that Jason Taylor move...and he's from Pittsburgh! But as the old saying goes, it's better to get rid of a player a year early as opposed to a year late. The Steelers get rid of guys after they turn 30 with few exceptions and are usually right. And I promise you Joey Porter just squeezed the last of his quality football out this season.

If Snyder was smart, he'd either go after someone in Pittsburgh's FO or park a dump truck of money in front of Scott Pioli's house and get someone QUALIFIED to get this ship right. Until then the same frustration we all feel now will continue on an annual basis.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

tie breakers?

losing out/winning out?

"a chance"?

"hope"?

LMAO, sorry guys, you can call me a d-bag fan, or fair weathered, or weather faired, but this team has NO SHOT of making the playoffs. None, nada, zip.

I knew this team was done when they BEAT Detroit, I knew then they didn't have what champions have - that killer/go for the jugular instinct.

Just like the Rams, and Lions, the Redskins gave them hope, belief that they could hang with this team.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 17, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I have absolutely no problem with firing Zorn (though admittedly, I will laugh at Snyder’s continued record of gross and utter incompetence if it actually DOES come to that).

As far as I’m concerned, the argument about how it’s foolish to “rebuild everything again from scratch,” is just hogwash, because this is basically still the same team that we’ve been painfully watching for years, with yet ANOTHER new offensive system to learn as the rotten cherry on top.

I’ve never liked this team all that much from the get-go. Start it over from scratch. Blow it all up. Seriously, I’m so incredibly defeated at this point; waiting a year or two for even mild success again wouldn’t even make me flinch. I don’t see Zorn as the answer. I don’t see these PLAYERS as the answer. If we’re going to blow chunks, let’s blow them with Cowher or Holmgren as our charge. Give me SOMETHING.

Posted by: MarylanDChris | December 17, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Myles....

I don't believe that for a second... That is not legit at all... NO WAY that has been decided already...

Danny and Vinny can't be that fin DUMB...

UNLESS VINNY is out the door as well... and I doubt that.

Posted by: EinVB | December 17, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

My problem with the WCO in D.C. is that it goes away from what this franchise has been for much of its existence. It's the antithesis of what Lombardi, Allen and Gibbs did here and it gets away from what this team's identity SHOULD be. One of the things I admire about the Steelers is that they are the same team they've ALWAYS been and seldom stray from the formula that's won them 5 Super Bowls. I just wish the Skins could have that same dedication to smash-mouth football...

Posted by: brownwood26


Yes! Yes! Yes!

Playing non WCO smash mouth football does not mean you have a bad passing attack. It should enhance the long game as well as other phases of it as the defense has to key more and more closer to the line of scrimmage. It's not that the WCO is a stupid offense, it is just stupid to redirect all the offensive personell shapings of the last 5 years of your franchise to fit into another system. When Vinnie convinced Snyder to go WCO in January it was the start of a cascading
series of really horrid decisions. To me the choice for WCO doomed us to at least 4 or 5 years of "rebuilding" era football. So I hate the WCO for not what it is but for the misery it is inflicting on us.

Posted by: driley | December 17, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

The case for keeping Zorn is simple. It's not his fault. It is the incompetent owner and his sidekick.

Posted by: hz9604 | December 17, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

I will not be one bit surprised if Zorn leaves on his own. He probably wants nothing to do with this team after this year.

Posted by: harbirsingh | December 17, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

here is idea; if the seattle want zorn as a headcoach then give them zorn!!!!!! then we can get a first round draft pick!!!!

Posted by: coop28 | December 17, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Even firing Vinny wouldn't get rid of public enemy #1, the Danny. More and more it seems like Vinny is Snyder's proxy. Snyder gets to play fantasy football with the roster and Vinny is the mouth. If Vinny were actually making many of these questionable personnel decisions, I'd be surprised.

Posted by: live1 | December 17, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

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