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Carter 'Optimistic' about Playing Sunday

Defensive end Andre Carter is back at Redskins Park after undergoing an MRI, which he said confirmed a slight tear in his plantar fascia. He is wearing a boot on his right foot, but said he is not ruling out playing this weekend.

"I'm optimistic about it," Carter said, noting the team's dwindling number of defensive linemen.

By Jason La Canfora  |  November 24, 2008; 2:48 PM ET
 
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Next: Skns by the Numbers

Comments

Stu27:
Once again practically every play we have sent Landry to the line good things have happened. Put him back up there this week, he dosent have any preseason rust and will be more then happy to reaquaint himself with Jacobs.

You sure you really want that? You remember Jacobs steamrolling Landry in the season opener, right? I think we definitely need to put more pressure on the QB and on stuffing the run, esp. next week, but I'm not sure about the Landry-Jacobs match-up.

Posted by: alizadk | November 24, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I think like I said he still had some preseason rust, remember he missed the entire preseason with injury and that was the very fisrt game, i have no problem with him manning up on Jacobs I really dont and look forward to it this week.
And if you want more pressure on the QB thats another reason to send him up to the line thats one of his greatest assests the guy was the player that the QB last looked at to see where he was lined up in college due to his ability of being a pass rusher, he had some devistating sacks in college and the way we are getting to the QB we need anyone and everyone with pass rush ability rushing the passer.

Posted by: Stu27 | November 24, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

There really on me today, good jobby job post.

Posted by: Stu27 | November 24, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Re: Steve Smith:

He had 10 catches in the last 3 games b/c he had been hurt most of the year, not b/c of production. Actually If your going to talk S. Smith compare him to Kelly, a dude who struggled with health but when he got on the field helped out the Giants quickly at the end of the season and into the playoffs.....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 24, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

whats with the stupid latin names for every muscle in the body? plantar fascia sounds like a Italian pot that when hung in sunlight allows a grape vine to grow really fast.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

They've got 10 DLs on the 53-man....dressed 7 each of the past two weeks. Sit it out AC. Let's see what James/Jackson can't do.

Posted by: 4-12 | November 24, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Think they were talking about the other Steve Smith...

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 24, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Springs looked just like Leigh Torrence on that interception to seal the game.

Posted by: RambleOn | November 24, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Let's test your theory, second round wideouts from 2005 or earlier, that's three years so no excuses right?

Reggie Brown
Mark Bradley
Roscoe Parrish
Terrence Murphy
Vincent Jackson (the best of the bunch)

2004

Devery Henderson
Darius Watts
Keary Colbert

hardly a impressive list, in those same drafts in the same round (2) players taken at positions of need for us that we ignored for 2 receivers and a tight end.

2005
6 current starters on OL and DL out of 8 picks at oline and dline

2004

6 current starters out of 9 picks at oline and dline.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"
Re: Steve Smith:

He had 10 catches in the last 3 games b/c he had been hurt most of the year, not b/c of production. Actually If your going to talk S. Smith compare him to Kelly, a dude who struggled with health but when he got on the field helped out the Giants quickly at the end of the season and into the playoffs.....


Posted by: chrislarry |"

can you explain the 8 fumbles?

Apparently he had some rushes, not sure how many, but 8 fumbles is ugh

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

So stop already - you haven't seen enough of Thomas to know if he's a bust.


Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 24, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I was fighting with Bean earlier on this.

I won't say Thomas is a "bust", but I believe Thomas's proper place right now is #5 WR on the depth chart.

He has shown no progress in the 10 games he's been active for, despite getting multiple opportunities to show his stuff. His playing-time to penalty ratio has got to be the WORST on the team by far. Our opinion of him is so low that if he can get on and off the field without drawing a flag and without botching his route, we pat him on the back and talk about how much he's progressing.

The problem, IMO, is with expectations. The FO did NOT draft him with the expectation that he would be a long-term project. They obviously expected him to contribute this season, and, perhaps, in a big way (no other logical reason for keeping only 3 veteran receivers on roster, especially w/ Kelly's injuries). Other fans seem to think he should step into the #2 or #3 WR spot off the bat and just run plays to him until he "gets it". I personally think this is ludicrous.

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

d. thomas talk=power rankings.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | November 24, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Hate to say it, but Carter should probably sit the next one out.

Posted by: _Stumped_1 | November 24, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

"The problem, IMO, is with expectations. The FO did NOT draft him with the expectation that he would be a long-term project. They obviously expected him to contribute this season, and, perhaps, in a big way.

Posted by: p1funk |"


Link please

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to see Carter and Taylor split time at RE. Then we can really gage JT's effectiveness this year. Then sub him at LB spots where needed. Keep Chris Wilson on the LE and rotate Demetric Evans at LE and DT in the right situations.

Posted by: Predator48 | November 24, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Link please

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Where's yours that proves that he was drafted to be a long term project and not contribute this year. Don't ask for something that doesn't exist either way, how do you know he's a project?...link plz...

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"His playing-time to penalty ratio has got to be the WORST on the team by far. Our opinion of him is so low that if he can get on and off the field without drawing a flag and without botching his route, we pat him on the back and talk about how much he's progressing"

Bring some stats to back up what you claim above...other wise you're full of crap...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | November 24, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

plus, all logic points to their expectations of his contributing right away, or did they really just plan on the only having three productive receivers on the roster for the first 12 weeks of the year?

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Ohhh the other steve smith...my bad...

Posted by: chrislarry | November 24, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

sorry I meant 3 receivers (Moss, ARE, Thrash)able to participate, not necessarily be productive....

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Why do people keep thinking I'm saying cut him?

zjfr2, people are saying that because you are calling DT a "bust". That means he is worthless, and not having on a team. If someone is worthless, you cut him.

DT is definitely not a "bust". He may be a disappointment.

Certainly some receivers are having many more receptions. But circumstances on each team determine how players are used, and how many passes are thrown at them. Jackson is kind of a go-to guy for the Iggles, but who else do they have to throw to?

Posted by: frediefritz | November 24, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"The problem, IMO, is with expectations. The FO did NOT draft him with the expectation that he would be a long-term project. They obviously expected him to contribute this season, and, perhaps, in a big way.

Posted by: p1funk |"

They are always going to say they want immediate contribution, and I'm sure they always "want" that but that does not mean they actually "expect" it. I think they took him that high because they thought he had the highest potential as a game-breaking wideout in the draft, even though he was very rough and they basically took him as a project that they wanted. I don't think anyone believes he would have fallen another round. Might they have been able to take Kelly in Thomas's spot and vice versa? probably, but in the end who gives a dam n?

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 24, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"Link please

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Where's yours that proves that he was drafted to be a long term project and not contribute this year. Don't ask for something that doesn't exist either way, how do you know he's a project?...link plz...

Posted by: zjfr2 "

I don't know, nor did I ever say he was. I actually said in my last post that it was my belief, not a fact.

But it's irrelevant. If you go about cutting every rookie who never produces, you will eventually have no one on your team. Good luck with that strategy.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

*never produces in his first year was what I meant

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

new strategy, trade all your players for first and second round picks because apparently all second round picks are supposed to be very good players in their second game ever.

First rounders, I'm guessing, should be Pro-Bowl and/or Super Bowl MVPs their first year. And not just one, all of them should be Super Bowl MVPs, they ARE first rounders anyway.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Next season I think our WR depth chart will be Moss, Kelly, ARE, Thomas. Subtract Thrash. Sounds good to me.

TE depth chart is Cooley and Davis. Subtract Yoda. Again, sounds good to me.

But who cares about next season... right now we need some heroes, we need dudes stepping up the rest of the way. Erasmus James, I'm looking at you. It's go time. Such as. Bring your maps.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 24, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

OK - to summarize - half of us are saying "he was a second round draft pick, for crying out loud...we should see SOMETHING from him this year" - while the other half are saying "hey, it's a crap shoot, and maybe this year is too soon to see anything from him"

Which, when you put it that way, if he does have an up side, we should see some flashes from him by now.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 24, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

ugh not another week of receiver talk....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 24, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"ugh not another week of receiver talk....

Posted by: chrislarry |"

don't worry I'm gonna talk about the draft tomorrow!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

ugh not another week of receiver talk....

Posted by: chrislarry

Better than the Torrence talk.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 24, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Who the hell cares what the front office's "real," provable, on-the-record intentions were?

I'm in the camp that believes that the front office went into this offseason believing that if they were returning ALL of their starters from a playoff team, the ONE PIECE they needed to go deeper in the playoffs was a tall WR to catch balls in the end zone.

I don't believe the front office picked these guys for the down-the-line contributions which we are now so frequently reminded are all we should ever have expected of them.

I believe the front office picked these guys to contribute THIS SEASON, and I believe we have every right to be ticked off that they've had trouble cracking the lineup.

It's what I choose to believe based on everything I've read and heard.

WR-TE-WR.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 24, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

there he goes again... the convo regulator.

no but seriously the talk about the WRs and the draft is beyond fatigued.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 24, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Off Topic Post:
So I was listening to the podcast on espn980.com when Sonny and Larry were interviewing Jason Taylor.

At the end when they were thanking him I swear I heard Sonny say "Thank you Sean, take care". WTF!

Some body tell me if I'm hearing things, or call me out if this was already discussed last night. I'm late on updates sometimes.

Posted by: Predator48 | November 24, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

ARE, DT, et al have had their chance. ARE has become less valuable on special teams ... if Hall stays plus Moss? Meanwhile, tough guy Thrash continues to prove just how valuable he is on the specials and can still make the clutch pass over the middle. If everyone was whining about losing Torrence's loss to the specials ... I think it would be worst if they cut Thrash. So, I think Thrash is a fixture. As are Moss and Cooley.

Perhaps even Malcom if they come up with a good FA signing ... I do hope they don't go to the draft that never works for them.

The greatest wide-outs they ever drafted WERE ALL HALF BACKS in college. CT Halfback when he started ... Art Monk: HB for the Orangemen.

The redskins are terrible at drafting wideouts. Soooo much better drafting for safety and corner. Plus Cerrato is a really terrible judge of raw college talent and always has been.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Nate what you gonna believe the things you read and hear or your fellow blogers.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Next year's draft needs:

1. D-line (tackle probably)
2. O-tackle
3. Linebacker
4. Center

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 24, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

wait we won last weekend, where is the talk of silly coked up hampsterness.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Man, the NFL moved us to Sunday nite against Baltimore. Bummer. We're 0-3 at night. Why not the Giants game which we probably (I hope I'm wrong) wouldn't win anyway.

Posted by: charley42 | November 24, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

jeez Red I said one thing, you have weighed in a ton about what people should be talking about....

You gotta slag me even when you agree?

Posted by: chrislarry | November 24, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

...just imagine...if we had only taken Desean Jackson instead of Thomas. We could be flying high like the Eagles. We could be...wait...

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 24, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"The greatest wide-outs they ever drafted WERE ALL HALF BACKS in college. CT Halfback when he started ... Art Monk: HB for the Orangemen."

Can a Priest Holmes as 3rd WR post be far behind Perc?

By the way, welcome back.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 24, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

if James F'n Thrash is on this roster next year, i'm going to swallow a vile of cyanide.

the Thrash/'skins relationship has run its course. time to move on now.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 24, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Center over guard?

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

OK - to summarize - half of us are saying "he was a second round draft pick, for crying out loud...we should see SOMETHING from him this year" - while the other half are saying "hey, it's a crap shoot, and maybe this year is too soon to see anything from him"

Which, when you put it that way, if he does have an up side, we should see some flashes from him by now.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 24, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, that's all I'm saying, I'm not expecting a pro-bowl year, I'm not expecting him to be the #2 guy on the depth chart, I am expecting him to have more than 77 yards receiving and to not have a net of approximately zero when you factor in his penalties.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

DeSean Jackson has stats because he doesn't have anyone in front of him that he needs to outplay to get in the game.

Kevin Curtis? Reggie Brown? Hank Baskett?

Not exactly Santana Moss or ARE.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 24, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Next year's draft needs:

1. D-line (tackle probably)
2. O-tackle
3. Linebacker
4. Center

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 24, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

those have been the same needs for 4 years

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

well with Andre Carter's plantar fascia tear, him and Jason Taylor have become spitting images of each other.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 24, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV you need to retake your driver's test. Thrash burned the skins red little bottoms when he left and went to the Eagles. He helped them get deep into the playoffs as a staring wide out. But his real value has always been on special teams as a standout. Not a schlub like Malcom and DT. Sean Taylor was critical on the specials too ... that loss hurt there as much as in the "D". For the specials ARE has really slid down that slippery slope. Time for him to go not Thrash.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Kevin Curtis? Reggie Brown? Hank Baskett?

Not exactly Santana Moss or ARE.

Posted by: MrRedskin21

No, but they're better than James Thrash.

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

or devin thomas

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

periculum - Devin Thomas has already made 2 TD-saving special teams tackles this season. He may be a huge underacheiver so far at WR, but on special teams, the guy has been very good.

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

"No, but they're better than James Thrash."

Not in a million years ... been drinking too many shots of tequila at FedEX have you?

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

ARE is the most under producing overpaid receiver in the league, only because LLoyd was cut and signed with the bears for the vet minimum.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I think we should draft another receiver in the mold of Leigh Torrence next year.

Bonus points for tying in LT, Draft AND receivers into one post Greg?

Posted by: Gweez | November 24, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

"those have been the same needs for 4 years

Posted by: zjfr2 "

go play Madden so you can run your own team

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"I think we should draft another receiver in the mold of Leigh Torrence next year.

Bonus points for tying in LT, Draft AND receivers into one post Greg?

Posted by: Gweez"


would've been more impressive if you said "LaVar thinks we should draft another WR in them old of Leigh Torrence next year", but that's just me.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Oh DEVINETLY Gweez, for your efforts you get 10,000,000.00 bonus points. Because these suckers expire, I have to file an amended tax form 10-40 EZ Wider, and reportable these on your 2005 taxes, which will then cause your good standing in the community to be debacled.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | November 24, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

periculum - You have quite a crush on Thrash.

I like the guy too as a hard-worker and leader, but in no situation would I ever want him as a WR on the field. He's got bad hands, he's slow, he's not quick, he can't jump, he's not big, and he can't get separation. All he has is that savvy veteran awareness. That's not nearly enough at this level.

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Sellers 10 tackles 8 solo, 2 assists.
James Thrash 8 tackles, 7 solo, 1 assists.
Devin Thomas 6 tackles, 3 solo, 3 assists.

Sellers is considered one of the toughest guys on offense AND on specials. Thrash blocks like Sellers. Admittedly the rest above them are mostly defensive starters.

Now looking at offense. Do you really believe that DT is a better blocker than Thrash? If you do you must be drinking, he's right up there with Sellers.

Sellers (starts) 8 receptions for 50 yds
Thrash (backup behind Thomas, Kelly?)
7 receptions for 69 yds

Devin Thomas (the official 3rd wideout?)
11 receptions for 77 yards?

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"those have been the same needs for 4 years

Posted by: zjfr2 "

go play Madden so you can run your own team

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

If I could you can bet it would have a decent Dline

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"quick, he can't jump, he's not big, and he can't get separation. "

He blocks, extremely well. Nuff said.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Jack, hasn't ARE looked better in the slot when we've seen him line up there, where he has a chance to make more plays?

The ARE-as-#2-WR experiment has definitely failed. But the dude is still a weapon.

I remain hopeful that Kelly will supplant ARE as the wideout opposite Moss next season, with ARE in the slot and Thomas as the fourth.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 24, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

I'd hate to see Thrash go, but he really is a #5 WR at best. How many Super Bowl winning teams have a #3 receiver who's also a non kick-returning special teams stalwart. Although I can't provide a link, it seems clear that Thomas and Kelly were brought in to be #s 3 and 4 on the depth chart, with Thrash #5 (at best). Having said that, I'm not prepared to give up on Kelly and Thomas yet. They're rookies, but this whole offense is in year 1 of a transition to a whole new offensive philosophy. That we're 7-4 is a testament to a stud defense, a close-knit veteran squad, and -- I think -- an excellent coaching staff.

Posted by: outsider6 | November 24, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Oh... and Clinton Portis being an absolute beast!

Posted by: outsider6 | November 24, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

periculum - Did you seriously compare Thrash's blocking to Seller's blocking?

And are you posting 7 receptions for 69 yards as a positive?

I mean I like Thrash, but you're almost forcing me to hate on him...

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Thomas and Kelly were brought in to be #2 and #3 and then #1 and #2 eventually.

Posted by: Gweez | November 24, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

periculum = James Thrash

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"He blocks, extremely well. Nuff said."

Yea, if he was a guard. The guy is a WR. There's a reason our passing offense struggles to move the ball outside of Moss and Cooley.

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV you need to retake your driver's test. Thrash burned the skins red little bottoms when he left and went to the Eagles. He helped them get deep into the playoffs as a staring wide out. But his real value has always been on special teams as a standout. Not a schlub like Malcom and DT. Sean Taylor was critical on the specials too ... that loss hurt there as much as in the "D". For the specials ARE has really slid down that slippery slope. Time for him to go not Thrash.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 3:40 PM


Hey a$$bag, how about a little less wit and just make your damn point. I can see that you're on of those dummies that think the game is won and lost on special teams.

Dude that crap you're talking about Thrash was when he was with the Eagles--his last year with them was in '03--that was FIVE years ago. Get with the times jag off. This is a what have you done lately kind of league, you know? And for the last FIVE years Thrash has been a special teams standout, only had more than 20 receptions more than once (21) and has never had more than 250 yards receiving.

And in case if you haven't noticed, or just have some sort of love affair with Thrash (hence you flag-waving), dude is 33 and will be 34 next season. How many years does he have left anyway?

James Thrash
Rock Cartwright
Leigh Torrence

What do these guys have in common? Special Teams standouts. They have never really contributed at their respected positions in a 'SKINS uniform. But yet, some of your hearts bleed profusely for them. I don't get it. They're on special teams for a reason--they're not the best (usually 3rd or 4th on down on the depth chart) at their regular position.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 24, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Other than a kicker, has anyone ever been drafted for special teams exclusively?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 24, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

perriculum, would you plz get off the halfbacks need to be wideouts, CT was the one and only guy who successfully made that switch, and Art Monk was not a halfback at Syracuse he was a three time All American at receiver.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Red,
The reason many are such supporters of Thrash and Rock is because they have a great work ethic. You always hear they work out longer and harder than anyone on the team, and you know DC fans love a good work ethic.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Jack, hasn't ARE looked better in the slot when we've seen him line up there, where he has a chance to make more plays?

The ARE-as-#2-WR experiment has definitely failed. But the dude is still a weapon.

I remain hopeful that Kelly will supplant ARE as the wideout opposite Moss next season, with ARE in the slot and Thomas as the fourth.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 24, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse


Nate completely agree, but at his salary I think he should be forced to renegotiate or get cut, he's good not great, and we could replace his production easily for a cheaper cap number.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Other than a kicker, has anyone ever been drafted for special teams exclusively?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston

Pretty sure Devin Hester was. He was only moved to WR after they realized what a stud he was with the ball in his hands. I don't think he was ever drafted with serious consideration of another position in mind.

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

For the Record:

Laron was trucked by B. Jacobs...in what was Laron's "First" pre-season game...where he was basically just starting to get his feet wet. Notice how he still made the tackle when trucked...and also notice how he made the adjustment and went low on his second opportunity...later that game.


Just saying.

And I bet Laron is seeking vengeance...

Posted by: jmicrodoc | November 24, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Hey, y'know what's awesome?

We beat the Seahawks in Seattle.


The awesomeness of this might not be fully appreciated by anyone who was not in attendance at the two playoff losses at Qwest, but it really is a sweet feeling.

Posted by: freakzilla | November 24, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

El is somewhere between a 2 and 3, but closer to a 3 He is like a 2.7. He has had a few big games in his career.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

He blocks, extremely well. Nuff said.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 3:52 PM

You just removed all doubt with this above statement.

So keep an aging, skills depleted, special teams standout? At the expense of who and what position?

Good God, you're an idiot. The Rock flag bearers, while I may not agree, I can sort of understand. James Thrash? Nope.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 24, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"What do these guys have in common? Special Teams standouts. They have never really contributed at their respected positions in a 'SKINS uniform. But yet, some of your hearts bleed profusely for them. I don't get it. They're on special teams for a reason--they're not the best (usually 3rd or 4th on down on the depth chart) at their regular position."

Still need a driving test RedDMV? What happens when someone misses a block or tackle on the specials? Touchdown OTHER team, fumble down near the goal line then TD other team. The specials are a critical part of the game. When they become a problem they start throwing the starters into the mix. Moss returning kicks is an example. Thrash also is in plays where he blocks on offense for the run.

Yeah he's old. So is Cartwright. Why are they still there? Its about blocking and tackling. ARE doesn't do either. Devin Thomas isn't bad but he isn't a good enough blocker. Todd Yoder a tight end. Fred Davis a tight end aren't even close. If you are Danny Smith you are going to fight to keep certain guys ... not schlubs.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

wow, Camarillo is out for the year, good thing he got his deal last week

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 24, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

++++I remember from the draft that Thomas was drafted because of his size and SPEED to eventually replace Moss. With only one year of Div I experience he was a project and in camp was learning the position that Moss plays.

Kelly was drafted for immediate help as the #2 WR. As many of the players and coaches have said, this guy is ready to play except that his knee did not let him go. He is the more polished of the two and the reason he is starting now over Thomas.

Does this make Thomas a bust? IMO, no! He is what he is, an inexperienced WR that has lots of potential but needs to mature into the pro WR he was drafted to be.

The problem with the Skins is that they do not meet with your expectations!

Posted by: Curzon417 ++++


Oh Good Lord. Your time defending the redskins 2nd rounders is wasted. You should be at Treasury defending the economic policies that put us in a depression.

The argument that the three non-contributors the Redskins drafted in the second round are for the future, if true, makes the FO the biggest boobs in football.

With NOT one, not TWO but THREE immediate starters out there, (Jackson, Royal, Avery) the FO intentionally drafted three guys they know won't be worth a thing for a couple of years?

Then, when Daniels goes down, they give up a #2 for a guy, who at best will give them two years at DE...so he'll be gone when the receivers are overcoming their "Bust" image.

I guess they drafted Durant as part of a long term strategy to eventually get a punter, Tryon as strategy to get them to bring in D. Hall, and all but ignored the D line so that Jackson and James will ride to the rescue.

The trouble is with the Redskins FO. They have no coherent stategy to return the Redskins to greatness.

And now, late in the season that has seen extraordinary effort by coaches and vets alike, it goes down the drain as the undersized and overaged lines get beat up and the rookie receivers sit their butts on the bench or express how thrilled they are to catch two balls for 14 yards..


Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV good at picking teams that can't block and tackle but have standout skills players ... hmmmm ... ah the Oakland Raiders!

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"Good God, you're an idiot. The Rock flag bearers, while I may not agree, I can sort of understand. James Thrash? Nope.

Posted by: RedDMV | "

Rock > RedDMV

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Sweet! Periculum's back. Where's Farstriker?!

Posted by: 4-12 | November 24, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Center over guard?

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Supposedly that dude they drafted last year projects as a starting guard. I like the idea of one home-grown and one vet FA in there.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 24, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Thrash (backup behind Thomas, Kelly?)
7 receptions for 69 yds

Devin Thomas (the official 3rd wideout?)
11 receptions for 77 yards?

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse
I don't know the stats, but Thrash started as the #3 w/o to begin the season. I don't know if DT started at #3. If he did it was probably in the last 2-3 games.

Posted by: frediefritz | November 24, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

The redskins current FO has a very poor track record when it comes to judging talent. That's why its better to hope for FA signings like Hall.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

"Good God, you're an idiot. The Rock flag bearers, while I may not agree, I can sort of understand. James Thrash? Nope.

Posted by: RedDMV | "

With Thrash you know you will get 100% focus and effort on every play. There is a value to that. There aren't that many guys like that - maybe just a few on each team.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 24, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

++++So stop already - you haven't seen enough of Thomas to know if he's a bust.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston+++


True. But apparently Zorn has seen enough of him to have a pretty good indication. Otherwise, why is he beat out by an ancient special teamer and a rook who's been hurt all year long?

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Also, I am an unabashed Thrash lover. Like alex said, it's his work ethic. It's the stuff he does off the field. He's a solid citizen and a leader in the locker room. Certainly he's faded a bit with age, but he gives it everything he's got when his number is called, and that kind of thing makes a great impact on younger players.

You can't distill a player's impact on a team to his numbers on a stat sheet.

Posted by: freakzilla | November 24, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Alex, I can respect work ethic. But that shouldn't be THE deciding factor when determining who should stay and go.

I like Rock and Thrash, but these guys, like Torrence are expendable--can be replaced.

I though the game was won/lost on the offensive and defensive lines.

Not special teams.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 24, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

"The problem, IMO, is with expectations. The FO did NOT draft him with the expectation that he would be a long-term project. They obviously expected him to contribute this season, and, perhaps, in a big way.

Posted by: p1funk |"


Link please

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

What? Do you want a link to my opinion or something? Do you know what "IMO" means?

Maybe you think that the FO kept 2 of 5 rookie WRs on the roster because they are stashing them for long-term development. Especially when the WCO runs 4 WR sets.

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

"True. But apparently Zorn has seen enough of him to have a pretty good indication. Otherwise, why is he beat out by an ancient special teamer and a rook who's been hurt all year long?

Posted by: TheCork "

so what you wanna do Cork? Cut him or what?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

"His playing-time to penalty ratio has got to be the WORST on the team by far. Our opinion of him is so low that if he can get on and off the field without drawing a flag and without botching his route, we pat him on the back and talk about how much he's progressing"

Bring some stats to back up what you claim above...other wise you're full of crap...


Posted by: BeantownGreg | November 24, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas is responsible for 4 of the team's 55 penalties so far this season. (With 11 catches).

Now you find me a player on this team with more penalties and less playing time.

Do any of our other WRs, TEs or RBs have a 4-11 penalty-to-catch ratio?

Doubt it.

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse


"Maybe you think that the FO kept 2 of 5 rookie WRs on the roster because they are stashing them for long-term development. Especially when the WCO runs 4 WR sets."

Vinnie runs the show ... hopefully, if this season is successful he will accept input from Blache and Zorn on draft picks and not just Danny.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

The argument that the three non-contributors the Redskins drafted in the second round are for the future, if true, makes the FO the biggest boobs in football.

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:09 PM


I thought that distinction belonged to Jillian Barbarie.

Posted by: freakzilla | November 24, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV good at picking teams that can't block and tackle but have standout skills players ... hmmmm ... ah the Oakland Raiders!

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:10 PM


And Oakland has skilled players at exactly what positions. The answers "who is McFadden" and "who is Asomugha" have been used already. Try someone else. Tell me who Oakland has at any other position?

Posted by: RedDMV | November 24, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"Vinnie runs the show ... hopefully, if this season is successful he will accept input from Blache and Zorn on draft picks and not just Danny.


Posted by: periculum"

I'm sure Zorn hated getting 3 receivers in the 2nd round!

I'm all for dissing the FO, but some (most) of yall are way wrong when yall do it.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

"Yea, if he was a guard. The guy is a WR. There's a reason our passing offense struggles to move the ball outside of Moss and Cooley."

That's not on Thrash that's on ARE. If he could block like Thrash, had the same focus instead of acting like an ex-college QB? Thrash blocks from the wide out position on running plays. Sometimes they throw to him from those sets. Shouldn't Devin be there? or Malcom? Anyone to take the pressure off of Moss? Who's fault is that again? When they have to use Bett's as a wide receiver?

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

+++(Zorn) ... admitted that lining Taylor up at left end on running downs wasn't really working. Zorn said that with Taylor and Carter both speed guys and tweeners, they need more of an inside push to be effective.+++

Eleven games in and they're just coming to that conclusion? That a 244 pound and 250 pound DE won't hold up against the running attacks of the NFC East and other run-oriented teams?

This is scary. I'm called an Idiot and I knew that when they were trying to GET Taylor.

ONE underweight base DE is bad enough, but TWO is a suicide mission. If ZORN and CERRATO didn't know this when they sacrificed a #2 for the two year rental whose been all but useless in year one, this team's in trouble.

Oh wait, I'm just a glass half empty guy.... I'm sure it will be fine.

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Carter is optimistic he will play. I'm not optimistic about his play.

Its time to give Jason Taylor the RDE spot and leave him there to play. He was an all-pro, defensive player of the year in that spot just 2 years ago. Let him do what he is best at and see if he can contribute, because we get nothing out of Carter.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Nice try Cork. I know you like to do a review of everyone's post to show how superior you are, but too often you miss.

The only one of the three "pass catchers" I said we picked as projects for the future is DT. I said Kelly was picked to play right away but his knee injury kept him from starting. Never mentioned Davis in my post.

Good try anyway. Get back to your (or was I supposed to say you're, can't remember) critiquing!

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 24, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

"I'm sure Zorn hated getting 3 receivers in the 2nd round!"

Vinnie pulled the trigger, made the trades. Zorn probably had some input but I doubt that he had the kind of input Gibb's and Williams had. Noting that Gibbs remembered getting burned by the Desmond Howard choice. He went for FA's.

With the wides its better to wait a season or two to see what they are like ... then grab em as free agents. Too many prima donnas. I think Dallas will end up being far happier with Williams than with TO.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

If he does play, how would anyone know?

Posted by: nojunk4me | November 24, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

And Oakland has skilled players at exactly what positions. The answers "who is McFadden" and "who is Asomugha" have been used already. Try someone else. Tell me who Oakland has at any other position?

Posted by: RedDMV

RED, all of them Raiders. I know cuz I thought I was being clever and used the Bronco defense for my FF team. That Raider offense, nothing but HOF guys judging by yesterdays game.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

The true measure of the intention of drafting Thomas would appear to be how they structured the team at the end of training camp. If they were really expecting him to not contribute this season then they would have kept McMullen or brought in an older, experienced receiver such as we had last year with McCardell or Caldwell. By framing the makeup of the receiving corps they practically handed the job to Thomas or Kelly from the beginning of the season. What he has shown in terms of production has not been a positive for the Redskins passing attack. You can label it a "disappointment" or a "bust" but you can not say that this has worked out so far in terms of what the Redskins have expected from him. I would say that if he was the 34th player picked in the draft then he is not living up to his credentials.

Posted by: driley | November 24, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

"True. But apparently Zorn has seen enough of him to have a pretty good indication. Otherwise, why is he beat out by an ancient special teamer and a rook who's been hurt all year long?

Posted by: TheCork "

so what you wanna do Cork? Cut him or what?

Posted by: TheTruth11

It's too late for that. Cut Cerrato. The guy who drafted so ineptly, and who overspent for JT.

I LIKED the idea of drafting Thomas. Shows you what I know. But teams can't be great without GREAT personnel men in a 32 team NFL. The 'skins most definitely don't have a great personnel guy. I'm not sure Snyder is capable of finding one, but this team won't get better if he doesn't try.

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Man, you guys are gettin after it with the ROOKS aren't ya?!?!?!

It's pretty simple people, is it disappointing that the rookies aren't contributing more? Yes. Is that reason, in year ONE, to label them "busts"? NO.

What to do with them? Can't risk cutting or waiving them, they are almost guaranteed to be picked up by another team. So, you coach 'em, you work 'em, use 'em on teams, and hope for the best.

With that said, isn't that basic philosophy what we were facing anyway? Think about it, new offense, new coaches on offense, young QB.

What does that add up to?

Play good defense, run the ball, and hope some players step up more quickly than expected. Why is that so hard for people to accept?

Posted by: craig2 | November 24, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

cork, what are the redskins ranked versus the run?

all the lightweight bullcrap aside, lets get down to facts.

They are currently ranked 7th against the run. So enough with your pissing and whining and patting yourself on the back, and trying to act like you're better than everyone.

"Devin Thomas is responsible for 4 of the team's 55 penalties so far this season. (With 11 catches)

Now you find me a player on this team with more penalties and less playing time"

NO, YOU find it, YOU were the one who said he had the worst playing time to penalty ratio, not ME. I asked you to back up your bull crap with Facts and Evidence, and you can't.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | November 24, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

My quick take on Malcolm Kelly. No penalties and no drops. One step forward.

On the end zone play he made a rookie mistake. WRs need to create space between themselves and the sideline. That give the QB a place to throw the ball. Kelly got pushed to close to the sideline, so Campbell's throw could only have been caught out of bounds. I don't like that pattern in general (its a very tough pass to complete and can get easily picked if underthrown just a little), but Kelly didn't do his job on that one.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Thrash sucks, F him. Shouldn't even be on the team this year let alone next year. He is a choir boy off the field, who gives an F?! He has a good work ethic...says who, his agent...dude is a waste of space...

You don't keep 35 year olds that can't contribute at their position for special teams. Fill ST will young/hungry dudes. Its the only place Devin Thomas has shined for cryin out loud.

RedDMV may hate me, but I gotta agree with him here.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 24, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

"ONE underweight base DE is bad enough, but TWO is a suicide mission. If ZORN and CERRATO didn't know this when they sacrificed a #2 for the two year rental whose been all but useless in year one, this team's in trouble."

Meanwhile back at the RANCH .. what does Evans have? Five sacks? Not bad for someone who is just filling in? Golston is having a banner season. Montgomery has great potential to be able to do both rush and defend the run if he gets away from injuries. Griffin is getting old but is still playing. Its not as bad as it looks. They need to replace Daniels and Griffin next year. Either with the draft or FA's. Looks like the draft because of the salary cap. Better with FA's though.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I'm gonna laugh.

Devin Thomas looks to be the kinda player that will just click one game and get it.

Then we'll hear about how it WAS a good draft pick considering they could've gotten him in the first round but they actually got another pick on top of it.

Great move.

Just like Carlos Rogers was a great move. And Sean Taylor. And Laron Landry. And Chris Horton. And Jason Campbell.

but those were all Gibbs' guys, right? Vinny had no input at all and was probably playing racquetbal during those drafts.

This draft is the first 100% Vinny draft (except for Chris Horton). Cause remember, Vinny happened to know a guy who gave him a tip on Chris Horton and Vinny took it. That doesn't mean Vinny saw anything, that just means someone else saw something and told him. And yes, that's usually what every single GM in the league does, but that's irrelevant.

And Leigh Torrence getting cut instead of Tryon? What?


jeeze

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

+++Nice try Cork. I know you like to do a review of everyone's post to show how superior you are, but too often you miss.+++

Me, superior? You're too kind. Try reading my posts and you'll see how superior I think I am. Oh compared to some, sure. But I'm more than happy to admit I'm just another boob posting in the the dark

+++The only one of the three "pass catchers" I said we picked as projects for the future is DT. I said Kelly was picked to play right away but his knee injury kept him from starting. Never mentioned Davis in my post.+++

How come you didn't mention Ol' Alarm Clock? Is he a "future project" or a wasted 2nd round pick?

About Kelly's injury. I'm no surgeon, but fella named Zorn seemed under the impression his injury was related to the fact he could not be bothered to show up in shape for training camp.

+++Good try anyway. Get back to your (or was I supposed to say you're, can't remember) critiquing!

Posted by: Curzon417+++

Let's see. You critiqued my critiques. Is it safe to say you think you are superior?

Dude, it's a frickin' sports blog. Don't get your feelings all hurt.

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Beantown,
he did back it up with half facts.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1 -- actaully Zorn said that was his fault for calling the play and aligning it the way he did. Kelly was just doing what he was told. Personally, I thought JC threw it too far to the sideline and it was a little late coming out.

As long as Kelly's knee stays healthy, he'll be contributing regularly and in every bigger ways from here on out.

Got to find a way to slow down the Giants.

Posted by: craig2 | November 24, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

On Campbell's throw to Sellers that Sellers dropped.

I recall listening to SJ9, who knows something about throwing. Said you need to keep the ball lower to guys like that (FB, TE sorts) because they wear the heavy shoulder pads and aren't as agile when they raise their arms up.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Half facts don't equal The Truth!!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

7 unassisted tackles on the specials. Not bad for an offensive player (as opposed to defensive). One who is supposedly too slow and old?

But, Chrislarry is right. Find receivers who are hungry and aggressive enough to block for Portis and Betts and tackle on special teams. And catch balls. They sure as hell won't be guys chosen in the 1st round. Apparently, not in the second either. Maybe they should draft a surly half-back and convert him like they did with Monk and CT?

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

again

periculum = James Thrash

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Cork, are you feeling OK? You almost seem human today.

Posted by: craig2 | November 24, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

"I'm sure Zorn hated getting 3 receivers in the 2nd round!

I'm all for dissing the FO, but some (most) of yall are way wrong when yall do it."


Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

The 3 receivers taken in round two are not winning ball games for us. The are not helping to protect Campbell, they are not contributing to rushing the passer, in fact their contribution has been miniscule. Knowing that, don't you think Zorn would have asked for a redo on the draft? Using all his high picks for receivers is Vinny throwing all his money down in one roll of the dice. In his own mind I am sure that he pictured the Skins scoring four touchdowns a game with four receivers on the field most of the time. Maybe this team will eventually evolve to that look, but for now every time we put that kind of formation on the field Campbell has time only for a 3 step drop.

Posted by: driley | November 24, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Whole lotta tusslin' goin' on up here for one day after a victory.

Definitely lacking in mediumness.

But I sure am glad there are so many geniuses up here.

Certainly a hard-fought blog today. Not split-pea soup. No sir.

Posted by: freakzilla | November 24, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

FYI, Chris Cooley is on pace to a career best 916 yds of offence. CP is on pace for 1,754 yds on the ground & 250 through the air.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Z I don't think that out of bounds TD catch was Kelly's fault. That was a combo of good def and Campbell throwing it high as a result.

You throw those lobs where it is safe to do so. In this case it was out of bounds.

Posted by: Gweez | November 24, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

craig2, read what Zorn said on that play to Kelly, not totally buying it -- though I don't like the pattern to begin with.

In either case the WR needs to be about 10 feet (not sure on this) from the sideline when he goes up for the ball. That way he can come down with it in bounds. Which means the WR can't get pushed towards the sideline, which is what happened on that play.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

"The 3 receivers taken in round two are not winning ball games for us. The are not helping to protect Campbell, they are not contributing to rushing the passer, in fact their contribution has been miniscule. Knowing that, don't you think Zorn would have asked for a redo on the draft? Using all his high picks for receivers is Vinny throwing all his money down in one roll of the dice. In his own mind I am sure that he pictured the Skins scoring four touchdowns a game with four receivers on the field most of the time. Maybe this team will eventually evolve to that look, but for now every time we put that kind of formation on the field Campbell has time only for a 3 step drop.

Posted by: driley"

32 NFL teams would want to redo the draft if they could look back today.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Cork my feelings are not hurt. Skins to thick for that.

I did not mention Davis because I was responding to Jack regarding Devin Thomas being a bust, not because we were grading our second round picks.

On Kelly's injury, his knee scope was not because he was out of shape, that was his hammy, which got better as he was recovering from the knee scope. What happened to his knee had nothing to do with him being out of shape.

And no, I was not critiquing your post but rebutting what you said. Nor did I call you superior, I said you like to show you are. I completely agree with you, you are a boob.

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 24, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

"CP is on pace for 1,754 yds on the ground & 250 through the air.

Posted by: alex35332 "

CP is also on pace to start declining after this year IMO.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1 -- interesting you heard that because Zorn said the exact same thing during his presser. JC needed to get it lower. Zorn said "he should a caught it, but it would have taken heroics".

Well to me, that is the kind of thing this team is missing, more guys performing "heroics" and making plays. Seems like CP is only offensive player we have that does that(occasionally Cooley too).

Posted by: craig2 | November 24, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

The argument that the three non-contributors the Redskins drafted in the second round are for the future, if true, makes the FO the biggest boobs in football.

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:09 PM |

Cork,

Aren't you tired of writing the same post over and over and over? Why don't you just write "same as last time" and free your time for something clever -- like Skippy?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 24, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Funny, Miami didn't seem to have a problem using Jason "one undersized end is bad enough" Taylor for 10+ years every down.

I even seem to recall him winning the NFL DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD.

Cork, us "conspirators that secretly work for Dan Snyder" will back down if you "I had a beer with JLC so he must be Jesus" folks will too.

I just don't understand wanting to burn a GM and owner at the stake when the team they have helped assemble is in the top 3rd of the league. I've seen Cork comment on how the lines are beat up, and how we didn't draft for that, etc...

Here's a newsflash: NOBODY HAS THE DEPTH YOU WANT AT EVERY POSITION. If your team accumulates enough injuries, you're playing weak players somewhere at the endy of the year, period. That's what happens with a 53 man roster in the free agency era.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | November 24, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

CP also gonna hit 9,000 yards in the next game. (needs 80ish)

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Moss, just missed a big play early. Campbell threw a terrific pass, the DB was grabbing at Moss and it should have been pass interference. There wasn't a lot of contact, just enough to slow Moss slightly. Moss had the guy beat and the ball was literally about 2 inches to far. I know its an incomplete pass in the stats, but it tells me that Campbell and Moss are still a dangerous deep play threat.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"Here's a newsflash: NOBODY HAS THE DEPTH YOU WANT AT EVERY POSITION. If your team accumulates enough injuries, you're playing weak players somewhere at the endy of the year, period. That's what happens with a 53 man roster in the free agency era.


Posted by: shaunsherman12"

Agreed, but the only two teams I've seen come close to that kinda depth are the Giants last year and the Patriots.

Giants though I think truly had depth, Patriots just have the best coaching staff in the league and know how to play with their players.

But us Skins fans seem to think we should have Pro Bowl backups for Pro Bowl starters, which ain't gonna happ...wait...we actually might next year so nevermind.

But Pro Bowl caliber they are not!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

++++cork, what are the redskins ranked versus the run?

all the lightweight bullcrap aside, lets get down to facts.++++-

--Beantown Greg

"(Zorn) ... admitted that lining Taylor up at left end on running downs wasn't really working. Zorn said that with Taylor and Carter both speed guys and tweeners, they need more of an inside push to be effective"

I didn't say this. ZORN did. It took a while but teams have ferreted out the Redskins weakness on D. Not all teams can take advantage, of course, but good running teams can. And will. The featherweight DEs have worn down. The DTs and LBs are beaten up from the pounding. So while the run defense has remained stout--thanks in large part to the DTs, Horton and great CB one on one coverage, school may be out.

+++So enough with your pissing and whining and patting yourself on the back, and trying to act like you're better than everyone.+++

Did you copy Curzon's homework? You Polyannas are sooooo predictable. When you run out of cogent argument you accuse those who've out-argued you of acting superior. Ever occur to you there's a reason why so many here act superior to you?

It's because, without exception, you totally stick to the Redskin party line. You NEVER are critical of FO decisions. Hey, I'm too busy patting myself on the back to be sure, but my guess is you are one of the large contingent from redskin Park assigned to stick up for Cerrato's questionable decisions.

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

craig, Sonny had said that during a game on the radio a while back, but its those kind of insights that make the radio broadcast interesting. Well that and Sam's drinking.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

"It's because, without exception, you totally stick to the Redskin party line. You NEVER are critical of FO decisions. Hey, I'm too busy patting myself on the back to be sure, but my guess is you are one of the large contingent from redskin Park assigned to stick up for Cerrato's questionable decisions.

Posted by: TheCork"

Giving a WR more than 11 games before saying his entire career is a bus does not = towing the company line

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

I just read the paper, again, and it says we won yesterday. You sure wouldn't know it from reading this blog with all the bickering and b1tch-slapping up here over nothing even as significant as power ratings.

Let's all go to the Wizards blog where we can duke it out, for real, over Eddie Jordan getting fired.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 24, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

It took a while but teams have ferreted out the Redskins weakness on D. Not all teams can take advantage, of course, but good running teams can. And will. The featherweight DEs have worn down. The DTs and LBs are beaten up from the pounding. So while the run defense has remained stout--thanks in large part to the DTs, Horton and great CB one on one coverage, school may be out.

Yet despite this, they're ranked all the way back at 7th, versus the run. Don't let that fact get in the way of your rant however.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | November 24, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Jason Taylor in, Andre Carter out. From my mouth to Greg Blache's ears ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Saying Devin Thomas was drafted as a "project" is revisionist at best. The guy was the skins 1st pick and he was drafted with the supposed #1 offseason need in mind. There were no guarantees that Malcolm Kelly was going to be there for their 3rd pick, so they did not draft Thomas with Kelly in mind as the "immediate" guy.

I said it before, it's not the stupid penalties or mental mistakes that bother me. It's that Thomas has showed nothing. Talent does not hide well on the football field. If this guy is special, we should have seen something by now. Not excuses that "the pass was thrown too low".

It's not that DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal or Donnie Avery are out-producing Thomas. It's that Thomas has only stuck out in a negative way so far. He hasn't shown the ability that Avery showed on adjusting to the underthrown bomb and making the diving catch. He hasn't given us the "wow" moments that Jackson gave by beating the defense for a long TD (even though he stupidly tossed the ball away before crossing the goal line). He hasn't given us the "wow" moments of the 98-yard TD Royal has given. All we have from Thomas are a couple of catches that any NFL WR would be expected to make, and none that make you say "wow". I hate to say it, but nothing I've seen from Thomas has made feel like this kid will be special.

On the other hand, Kelly has made a favorable impression. On much more limited time on the field, Kelly has already jumped to the middle of the depth chart. And the confidence of his teammates and coaches are apparent in their quotes about him. Even from the few plays ran his way, he seemed much more fluid and confident in his routes and ability to catch the ball. It's just my impression, but I think Kelly has the most upside here. He looks like the real deal. I won't declare him a future pro-bowler just yet, but I see him being what Rod Gardner showed flashes of becoming early in his career.

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

+++"Funny, Miami didn't seem to have a problem using Jason "one undersized end is bad enough" Taylor for 10+ years every down.

I even seem to recall him winning the NFL DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR AWARD.+++---Shaunsherman

He'll probably be in the Hall of Fame. Just like Bruce Smith. Bruce Smith had a similar history when the Redskins managed to grab him. How'd he work out?

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

shausherman,

With ten draft picks used are we a better team than last year, given that our lines have another year of accumulated damage on them?

Posted by: driley | November 24, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

my guess is you are one of the large contingent from redskin Park assigned to stick up for Cerrato's questionable decisions.

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 4:51 PM

We're not "assigned" by anyone. We're volunteers. We believe in giving back to the community.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 24, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Truth,

What you wrote was...well, truth. If I recall, the Pats actually came out of last year pretty clean injury wise....

I just don't get it regarding the depth thing. Every team has a spot that needs work, and if that position takes on injuries, gets exposed. You draft for one thing one year, something else gets put off for another year. There is no "all around fix" in one year's worth of draft picks and FA's.

If the Redskins were rock solid all around, save for their backup strong safety, some people here would be moaning about that the moment the SS got hurt, saying Cerrato should be shot.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | November 24, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Let's all go to the Wizards blog where we can duke it out, for real, over Eddie Jordan getting fired.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

I was there all afternoon. Pretty shocked at how much love a 1-10 coach can receive.

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

At the sake of RedDMV's wrath.....don't most of you get sick of arguing the same thing and from the same perspective day after mutha humping day?

Mix it up, take a call'em like you see'em approach you are all Skins/FD ideologues...

That is why I like Zorn, way more of a pragmatist type.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 24, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

TheTruth11 == Devin Thomas
TheTruth11 =~ Malcom Kelly

Way better to be == James Thrash ...

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

The defense struggled because we didn't have our future HOF guy (Leigh Torrence) to contain their future HOF guy (Mo Morris).

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

+++On Kelly's injury ... What happened to his knee had nothing to do with him being out of shape.+++--CURZON

Ah, so you ARE a doctor then.

+++I completely agree with you, you are a boob.+++

Ouch. I consider myself zinged!

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

That is why I like Zorn, way more of a pragmatist type.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 24, 2008 4:57 PM

Is he posting up here? What's his fake name?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 24, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

To win against the Giants:

Defense must lead the way. Turnovers. INTs, Fumbles, sacks.

Offense: Short passes to backs and TE's. They'll have Moss double and triple covered. Long throws to Shaun Alexander? He can't block, doesn't want to run the gut. Maybe he can catch a long one? He supposedly has the speed.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

In either case the WR needs to be about 10 feet (not sure on this) from the sideline when he goes up for the ball. That way he can come down with it in bounds. Which means the WR can't get pushed towards the sideline, which is what happened on that play.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 24, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

I thought so too, but when I watched it again, his split was way too wide to begin with, and the ball was on the left hash, so he couldn't do but so much. I would expect that he learns to handle that kind of thing better in the future though. Maybe fake an "in" or a slant to give himself a little extra room from the boundary.

One thing is for sure though, Zorn has a lot more confidence in Kelly than he does Thomas, Kelly may have been on the field more than Thrash and I would be surprised if that doesn't grow more every week.

Posted by: craig2 | November 24, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Cork,

Given Smith had been deteriorating for years, and Taylor was an impact player LAST YEAR, the analogy...well, stinks.

Heck, even your fearless leader thought getting Taylor was the right move...until last week when all the sudden he thought it was a bad move.

I guess he was for it before he was against it.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | November 24, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

We're not "assigned" by anyone. We're volunteers. We believe in giving back to the community.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

T_E. You get it. You are apparently aware of the fact this isn't drain surgery and none of us are brain sturgeons.

Posted by: TheCork | November 24, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Good question unintentionally inferred:

Do we even have a potential future HOF Redskin ... maybe Portis ... still ... who else? Jason?

Everyone knew Monk and Green would get there. Riggins, Grimm, Dexter would have if he hadn't become a drug addict ...

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

"TheTruth11 == Devin Thomas
TheTruth11 =~ Malcom Kelly

Way better to be == James Thrash ...

Posted by: periculum "

Not really, I'd rather be a young gun with a lot of potential than a never-really-was-but-maybe-kinda-sorta-ehh-not-really-well-he-did-have-that-one-year-but-that-was-only-one-year-who-are-we-talking-about-again?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 24, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Pretty shocked at how much love a 1-10 coach can receive.

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 4:57 PM

Dude never even won a playoff series, did he?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 24, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

"One thing is for sure though, Zorn has a lot more confidence in Kelly than he does Thomas, Kelly may have been on the field more than Thrash and I would be surprised if that doesn't grow more every week."

I think it may mean that not only is he big but he uses his size to block on running plays. Which is the bread and butter of this offense.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 24, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

DRiley,

This year after 11 games, minus Sean Taylor:
7-4.
Last years after 11 games: 5-6 with Taylor most of the way.

We are a better team than last year.

That's with a rookie head coach, and rookie offensive coordinator, and at least in IMO a harder schedule to date.

Our O-line has another year worth of beating...as does everyone else at every other position. No way around that, I'm afraid. I thought the TE pick in the second round was unnecessary, and would rather have had an O/D line player there...but I'm willing to give it time and see where this draft class takes us.

I don't have any problem with the WR's: Moss can't go forever, and Randle El is a slot guy, not a #2WR. Thrash can't get open.

Your question is the kind I hope the organization asks itself every year.

Still, there are some here that will hold on to their pitchforks and torches until Cerrato/Snyder is gone seemingly no matter what.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | November 24, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

I think it's interesting that nobody has bothered to connect that Monty has been out of the line up the last two weeks, and we've been gouged horribly against the run.

I never thought the guy was that valuable, but I guess he is.

Posted by: craig2 | November 24, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Dude never even won a playoff series, did he?

Posted by: talent_evaluator

One year, against Chicago. Arenas with the buzzer-beater in game 6 (I think).

Since then, knocked out back-to-back-to-back by Lebron.

Posted by: psps23 | November 24, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

"Not really, I'd rather be a young gun with a lot of potential than a never-really-was-but-maybe-kinda-sorta-ehh-not-really-well-he-did-have-that-one-year-but-that-was-only-one-year-who-are-we-talking-about-again?


You mean a never-will-be, never-really-tried, too kewl-to-learn-the-offense, left-his-playbook-in-the shower, too-fearful-to-block, a-young-pussy.

Versus an over-achiever who everyone thought would never start ... but he ended up starting for the Eagles.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

"I never thought the guy was that valuable, but I guess he is."

He's the future along with Golston. Yes, he is pretty valuable. He started last year remember? This year to injuries set him back behind Golston. Have to assume that next year he replaces Griffin in the lineup.

Posted by: periculum | November 24, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

CP has to rank up there with Larry Brown as one of the toughest Skins running backs

Posted by: oldtimer4 | November 24, 2008 6:07 PM | Report abuse

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