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Another Trap Game?

We will hear the talk again this week, about the Cleveland Browns being a trap for the Redskins on Sunday, that they're an upstart team with little to lose after a poor start to the season. After toppling the previously undefeated Giants, who also happen to be the Super Bowl champs Monday night, the Browns may be even more dangerous.

For the first time all season, QB Derek Anderson played the way he did a year ago, doing so just in time to likely stave off the first NFL start by Brady Quinn. The Browns entered the Giants game averaging a miserable 124 yards of offense per game, then pounced all over the Giants.

Anderson was driving off his back foot, whipping lasers all over the field, and the Browns tore apart New York without one of their primary weapons, tight end Kellen Winslow, who could return from illness to play this weekend. Braylon Edwards finally seemed focused, running taut routes and holding onto the ball after a litany of drops. It was pretty impressive all around.

What struck me most, though, was some of the quirky stuff the Browns were running, unusual formations that can be born of frustration and desperation after failing to meet expectations and sinking near the bottom of the NFL. On offense, they have adopted the wldcat formation from Miami, running a single wing at times with Anderson split wide as a receiver and with receiver Joshua Cribbs, a Pro Bowl return specialist, lined up behind center as the quarterback.

The Browns don't use it as much as the Dolphins do with tailback Ronnie Brown behind center, but it could be a big formation for them in key parts of the field, particularly inside the red zone. On defense, Cleveland runs a formation called "UFO," in which seemingly none of the defenders adopts a two- or-three-point stance, with linemen like tackle Shaun Rogers (more on him later in the week; this dude has game-changing ability on those Sundays when he appears motivated and focused) standing upright as linebackers.

It presents a unique look for quarterbacks to deal with, and though I'm not sure how effective it is, the Browns get credit for trying something different if nothing else. One thing is certain: I wouldn't want to fall behind this team because, like the Rams, they do have some offensive weapons.

...

Dan Steinberg takes a look at the Bama connection between Chris Samuels, Shaun Alexander and Cornelius Griffin.

By Jason La Canfora  |  October 15, 2008; 9:00 AM ET
 
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Next: An Unrestricted Look at Tuesday's Moves

Comments

CDon do you really believe anyone at the park talk with JLC? I don't at all. Every notice that he only quote players NFL GM's when he has something negative to say.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | October 15, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Redskins tried out punter Johnny Ayers from Boston College (started 50) games. He lives in Oakton Virginia -- CALL HIM UP -- he kicked for a #2 ranked college team his senior year and in all weather conditions in Boston for four years without ever having a place kicker to try long field goals. He was forced to be a directional punter -- almost won Va Tech game by himself --great athlete and you have film on him from your Redskin tryout last Spring .... grab the phone (he is PAT/FG holder too -- QB in High School -- All Met Baseball)

Posted by: lovsumr | October 15, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

First?

Posted by: ILikeSonny | October 15, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

woohoo...I just gave my Pro Bowl for punter to Durant Brooks.

Posted by: Skins1 | October 15, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

AbsoLUTEly a trap game. And with the new additions, I can easily see us letting this go.

We have no recent history against the Browns and not much to work with.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

I've stated often on this blog. Frosty had punting problems, but he was a football player, not just a punter. And low average aside, he still had some strategic use.

However bad he sucked, he is and was better than brooks - and I've been saying that since training camp

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2008 9:00 AM |

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read, he had punting problems but he was a football player. He was a punter only, and he was not good, did he do something else I was unaware of, I know he made some tackles here and there but he had to do that because of his bad punts.

What is this strategic use you are talking about enlighten me please.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 15, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

CDon
I don't know of anybody that talks to JLC at the park other than Springs. That's fine if they show surprise. He!! I'm surprised we got Alexander at the vet min. It still doesn't hide the fact the JLC can't just report what happens without some kind of negative spin on things.

Posted by: Lacantwrite | October 15, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Let me clarify something, JM: we do not cloak our opinions with unattributed quotes. That isn't something reporters at the Washington Post do, even on blogs. Ethical standards apply here, just as they do across all our platforms.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | October 15, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Will we ever see this again?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW8aXD9I300

Posted by: GintheAtl | October 15, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Our de facto GM is doing better with his player selection, but still shows immaturity. Let's hope the new guys contribute and the injured recuperate or I see things unravelling.
I also think they cast off Reed prematurely, he's shown a whole lotta' heart, like that little guy #37 Pat Fisher way back when.
Fortunately our new coach is insulating the team from the doofus owner we have. At least the Cowpie owner Jerrah Jones is the absolute worst, one area I'm not sad the see the 'pies surpass us in.
Was hoping the Zornmeister could keep the team above the limitations of owner & CeRattboy, but it seems the weekness at the top continues to undermine, and maybe doom us to perpetual mediocrity.

Was visiting the hometown over the weekend, couldn't believe the beltway traffic before the 'Skins game, great to see the city taking pride in the team and getting excited again.
Hail!

Posted by: ILikeSonny | October 15, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

this is a huge trap game...but I love the fact that this is an afternoon game. I coach football and for some reason players get up better for mid-afternoon games. Our D will be up to the task...

Posted by: dboog | October 15, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Anyway, coming full circle, this weeks game has somewhat of a 'must-win' feel to it for me. The Browns have some good players on their offensive line, Steinbach, Joe Thomas, but they're largely on one side, right I believe. The left side not so much. Carter is going to have his hands full this weekend.

Defensively, I think the Browns can be run on, as the Giants showed the other night, but I also think Cools is gonna have a huge game, the underneath stuff seemed to be there for the taking.

Moss needs to get the ball a bunch this game as well. Thomas too. Get these guys the ball, and let them use their speed to make plays.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Ben - yes, the game is at 4:15 EST this week for some reason.

Posted by: suzannepdc | October 15, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Ilike, you have any facts to back up what you say, or did you just pull that garbage out of an orifice??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Their so called UFO formation isnt really a new thing the Pats have been doing it for years under bellicheck, wonder where Romeo came up with that idea. Anyways all the down lineman just kinda putz around standing up lookin confused and then blitz. Normally it amounts to nothing but sometimes they switch blitz gaps. Sean Rogers is a BIG pun intended reason for them doing this he is effective out of a stand up formation and i think they inplement this because of him.
Rogers will be a HUGE part of thi game, in years past he has looked fatigued often, howegver this year he looks better conditioned. He still wears down easily as most 400+ pounders do but he will be a handful for a center and will need constant guard support as he often comes right up the center nose gurad stly.

Posted by: Stu27 | October 15, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

suz, Sox are done. The Rays are a better team right now.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Their so called UFO formation isnt really a new thing the Pats have been doing it for years under bellicheck, wonder where Romeo came up with that idea. Anyways all the down lineman just kinda putz around standing up lookin confused and then blitz. Normally it amounts to nothing but sometimes they switch blitz gaps. Sean Rogers is a BIG pun intended reason for them doing this he is effective out of a stand up formation and i think they inplement this because of him.
Rogers will be a HUGE part of thi game, in years past he has looked fatigued often, howegver this year he looks better conditioned. He still wears down easily as most 400+ pounders do but he will be a handful for a center and will need constant guard support as he often comes right up the center nose gurad stly.

Posted by: Stu27 | October 15, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Hafta agree with Greg on Sawx.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | October 15, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

"... But because they released Hamilton, its "I thought this guy was on the verge"....."

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 8:34 AM

Or maybe, to use Hamilton's own words, a guy who was "stealing paychecks."

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

To touch on what you said. It is particularly disconcerting to me that Moss can just be shut down for two games. People like TO and Moss (of the Randy variety) see that coverage every week and beat it. This offense works much better with S. Moss involved. Be it WR screen or quick slants.

I'm not sure if it's a failure of the play calling, JC's inability to fit it in tight spaces, Moss' failings as a receiver or all the above. But good teams find ways to put it in the hands of their best players and that hasn't happened for two games.

You can't let other teams dictate where the ball goes. The offense must find a way to beat the double.

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the Youtube link, GintheAtl; was great to see all the familiar, departed faces. After our weekend visit to DC and the autumn nostalgia, it makes me want to write poetry.
Hope we see the brotherhood of love for the hometown like we did after that first SB win again some day....

p.s.- stop pickin' on JLaC you knuckleheads, it's a free country so you can go elswhere and find an editorial slant you like, thanks to our VETERANS and involved citizens who VOTE! (that's as "political" as I'll go)

Posted by: ILikeSonny | October 15, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Jason, are you, or anyone, going to talk about the rookie class under VC? Does this guy know what he is doing?

Posted by: Skins2 | October 15, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I also think they cast off Reed prematurely, he's shown a whole lotta' heart, like that little guy #37 Pat Fisher way back when.
--I like spirit, but Reed Doughty is in no way shape or form anything that Pat Fisher was.Fisher was a relentless beast who had no regard for his own health or saftey while palying and did everything in his power to inflict as much hurt on opponents as possible. Doughty not so much.

--Greg Those two are their left Tackle and Gurad , they do anchor the line. Thomas epecially is a beast Jamal cant get enough of him, relentless run blocker and great pass blocker, Carter is gonna need help to get to em from that side.

Posted by: Stu27 | October 15, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Hmm... I don't think this can be qualified as a trap game.

Having a winless team that just fired its coach come into your building after you've won four straight games and are feelin' yourself... yeah, that's a trap game. We, ahem, fell into that trap.

Having a struggling team that just solidly beat the reigning world champs, giving them their first loss of the season, come into your building after you lost to one of the league's bottom feeders... I do not think that qualifies as a trap game.

Every swingin' soul wearing the burgundy and black must approach this game with a profound sense of urgency...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg, I'm sad the RedSox are stumbling too, but Dang boy! Play nice, geez!

Posted by: ILikeSonny | October 15, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

I don't think this is going to be a trap game. Skins have a sour tastes in their mouth about what happens when, in terms of individual performance, concentration lapses cause the "team" to suffer. I'm thinking they will be super sharp, super medium. [And last week's down helps medium out the preceding ups.]

The Browns will come in here thinking they just beat the Super Bowl football Giants. They did, but the Giants are who we think they are ... and we beat them for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters of Week One ... and held them to far fewer points. Browns will be insufficiently medium. This is NOT going to be a trap game (except maybe for the Browns).

THIS is a trap game:

http://courses.knox.edu/theatre121/ImageLinks/MousetrapGame2.jpg

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Flounder - insults aside. You're wrong. Frosty could tackle (proven). He was a good holder. While he didn't have tons of distance, he did have manageable placement. He also could long kick.

He was and is better than the current punter. Bring in a better punter and you're good to go. Until then, keep your snyde BS down to a dull murmur.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

You can't let other teams dictate where the ball goes. The offense must find a way to beat the double.

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 9:28 AM |

Or you can go to a covered receiver 18 times in a game, just trying to get the ball to him even though he is covered and not do sh!t on offense.

Sometimes you have to take what the defense gives you, we one the first game Moss did not catch a pass and we gave the second game away, Moss will get his but you can not try and force the ball to a covered receiver just because he is your #1.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 15, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Socks aint done yet. They've been down to the elimination game in each of their last two WS runs. But my goodness do they look inept.

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

CDon do you really believe anyone at the park talk with JLC? I don't at all. Every notice that he only quote players NFL GM's when he has something negative to say.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | October 15, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Yes I do. I'm sure players talk to him. His beef has never been with them, just with the owner and GM, so I don't see what's stopping the players from talking to him. If he couldn't get any interviews, he wouldn't be able to do his job.

I'm also not sure what's wrong with quoting other GMs and personnel people from around the league. Every reporter does it in every city.

Posted by: CDon | October 15, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Let me clarify something, JM: we do not cloak our opinions with unattributed quotes. That isn't something reporters at the Washington Post do, even on blogs. Ethical standards apply here, just as they do across all our platforms.

Posted by: Cindy Boren

Finally, somebody stepping in to stop all this ridiculously idiotic conjecture. But be careful Cindy, pretty soon these guys will just lump you in with JLC as part of the "conspiracy" against the Redskins.

Posted by: psps23 | October 15, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: dboog | October 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Umm, for the season Randy has 300 yards and 2 td's. That's not seeing the coverage and beating it. Randy is a great wideout, but qb and coverage makes a big difference, Santanna has had a great start because of JC, now he's struggled for two weeks because of coverage, and JC has torched teams with other weapons, it will come around soon, teams are gonna have to start respecting ARE and Cooley, what absolutely has to happen is we have to find a 3rd wr to contribute.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Cindy, thanks for clearing that up. The serious lack of understanding about what journalists do up here is staggering to me sometimes. OK so you don't like JLC, ever consider that your constant cheap shots innuendo, and constant harping don't really help make your point that JLC is "petty"?

Also everyone loves Cindy right? Would anyone disagree that we consider Cindy a talented professional at her j-o-b? Well she oversees the Skins team, is their editor/boss. So when you take your lame jabs at him, guess what your calling out her professionalism/ethics/talent/ability to do her job as well. To separate the two as "janso bad/cindy good" is false.

I know empathy is passe, but how would we all hold up if 20-50 strangers were anon commenting on the job we did in real time?

Just my thoughts, take it or leave it...or rip me a new one.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

CDon
I don't know of anybody that talks to JLC at the park other than Springs. That's fine if they show surprise. He!! I'm surprised we got Alexander at the vet min. It still doesn't hide the fact the JLC can't just report what happens without some kind of negative spin on things.

Posted by: Lacantwrite | October 15, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

And this information comes from where? Also, I didn't read the last post necessarily as negative. It's more a statement of fact. Why would Vinny want to cut draft picks? This happens all over the league. You invest a draft pick in a guy, you have a vested interest in giving him time to develop. You just sign a guy off the street, it's easy to cut him. That seems to be the rationale league wide. Still, the players (and Jason) are allowed to be shocked by it. Jason's last post was by far the least venomous of anything he's written about Vinny. Some of you need to get over this thing because you're looking for drama where there is none. I think a few of you would be better suited commenting on message boards for The Hills than the Redskins.

Posted by: CDon | October 15, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Flounder I disagree. I didn't say force anything I said find ways to get them the ball.

If it can happen with Reggie Bush, Randy Moss, TO etc. etc. Why is it not possible for the skins to do it? It can be end arounds, screens or anything like that. Good teams find a way. They don't throw their hands up and accept that it can't be done.

Adapt you idiots!!! (Sorry had to steal the line)

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Stu27- great to find another brother who remembers him. He was indeeed a tough lil' hombre and was my favorite player, probably because I was a little guy too. Still mad at Howard Twilley for that SB catch.
In this crazy age we live in it's great to see players I can point my kids to as role models, like Jason Campbell.
Had the thrill of meeting Doug Willims when he was an asistant coach at the Naval Academy.

Posted by: ILikeSonny | October 15, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Mean, and nasty is all I know.

gweez, agreed, Moss is the teams biggest threat on offense, getting the ball TWICE in the past 2 games is called not getting it done. Now I've read that Philly was triple covering him, so if that is indeed the case, then the Redskins offense should have HUGE HOLES they needed to exploit.

If Cleveland does the same thing, 3 guys rolling coverage on Moss, then JZ needs to get more aggressive with his playcalling, and make they pay for that.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Also, I don't see this as a trap game. Last week was a trap game, but because the Skins lost, I don't think this one against the Browns can be considered a trap game. The Skins now know what can happen when they relax and take opponents for granted. I have a feeling they're going to come out firing Sunday.

Posted by: CDon | October 15, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

DikShuttle can you explain why Packers brought in punters if Frost was so great?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | October 15, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Trap game for the Redskins? Let's hope not, especially after this past Sunday. So far, the Redskins have shown that they can play to the level of the (supposed) best and worst in the NFL. I would say that the Rams game was a trap, and the Redskins certainly got caught. After a hefty dose of humble pie this week, one would think that they won't overlook their remaining opponents.

Regarding the negativity towards JLC, especially with respect to who speaks with him at the Park: If you don't like or trust his reporting of the Redskins, then why do you bother with this blog? Negativity for the sake of negativity is a drag. Talk Redskins football, and spare the mudslinging.

Posted by: TAS172226 | October 15, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

z,

I was talking about last year. No one stopped Randy Moss. They have a guy throwing the ball now that hasn't started a game since High School. Moss didn't change the QB did.

Please I don't want to go on and on about this there are 100's of examples of it being done. You think D coords never said to themselves, "Gee that Jerry Rice guy is pretty good maybe we should try and stop him?" Of course they did. Good teams find a way...

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure if it's a failure of the play calling, JC's inability to fit it in tight spaces, Moss' failings as a receiver or all the above.

Posted by: Gweez

It's none of the above. It's the unwillingness of JC to throw the ball up into double coverage. With JC not throwing a single INT this season, and with JC consistently and methodically moving the ball down the field even without Moss involved, this is completely fine with me.

Posted by: psps23 | October 15, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

CL you have empathy? Who'd a thunk it.

I agree though. I actually don't feel bad for JLC at all. What I would say is if everything he writes makes you angry/miserable why read it? Just skip the posts and read the jibba or the jabba.

You points have been made. My suggestion is move on.

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

I didn't say anything about Frosty being great. I said Brooks was a mistake, from the beginning.

Crow pie - served pipin hot. And I STILL have yet to hear from any of the sukkards who lauded Dannyland last week.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Let me clarify something, JM: we do not cloak our opinions with unattributed quotes. That isn't something reporters at the Washington Post do, even on blogs. Ethical standards apply here, just as they do across all our platforms.

Posted by: Cindy Boren

Thank you Cindy! finally somebody sticks up for JLC, the man brings us the best info the fastest and works his butt off so we get all the news we can get about our team. Which has been pretty questionable for a long time in personnel department. Get off his back, its his job to give opinion, ask questions (yes the Vinny event), find stories where there are any (yes the Vinny event), and to criticize when necessary (yes Vinny's entire tenure). You should be more worried about our de facto GM who has had an extremely turbulent tenure, has proved nothing as a personnel guy for the Skins, and had what looks to be shaping up like a terrible draft having a radio show on which he spends most of his time stirring up controversy (getting involved in the B-mitch/Portis debate, getting in a pissing match with the Herd, calling out JLC for asking a question to the league and writing or reporting nothing about it, undercutting his coach about the punting situation so that Zorn has to answer why Vinny said Brooks is definitely out when the coaching staff hadn't made that decision yet, and basically spending his show taking shots and going after anybody who dares to criticize he or the Danny). That isn't the way a professional head of a billion dollar organization should act.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 15, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Crow pie - served pipin hot. And I STILL have yet to hear from any of the sukkards who lauded Dannyland last week.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse


Lauded Danny for what? I'm unclear. Just curious.

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Oh my gosh, dick, get over yourself.

"I was right, I was right, look at me, I was right, everyone bow down to me, and admit I WAS RIGHT"

take that crap else where, would you please.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

I'm mad empathetic...

Moss is a different WR than Moss/TO...not really a fair comparison. Moss is a weapon with distinct skils. In a balanced offense he is deadly. If he is the only option, he can be shut down. This has been demonstrated year after year. I LOVE moss, he stirs the cocktail, but we need a compliment of WRs to get the best out of Moss...

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Greg - I agree. We actually stopped watching the game last night once it was something like 11-1. Who knows? Maybe they can turn it around, but I am not too optimistic.

Posted by: suzannepdc | October 15, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

You Sawx fans throwing in the towel on a team that has come back from 3-1, and 3-0 in playoffs series twice in the last 4/5 years....


wow

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

I don't think this is a trap game either. Browns came out fighting on Monday night and dispite a million false start penalties at home, managed not to just win, but really outplayed the Giants. I think the Skins see that. I agree with whoever said cooley would have a big day on Sunday.

Posted by: suzannepdc | October 15, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

cl, I'm not throwing in the towel, I'm just conceding that the Rays are a better team. They must have HATED not having today off.

Agreed on Moss however, which is why throwing the ball to Thomas and getting them to take him into consideration is doubly important.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

CL - They got completely dominated in the last two games while playing at Fenway - just think the Rays are "hot" right now and playing like a better team. Still hoping it goes to 7 games and Sox win 4, but....

Posted by: suzannepdc | October 15, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

I'm mad empathetic...

Moss is a different WR than Moss/TO...not really a fair comparison. Moss is a weapon with distinct skils. In a balanced offense he is deadly. If he is the only option, he can be shut down. This has been demonstrated year after year. I LOVE moss, he stirs the cocktail, but we need a compliment of WRs to get the best out of Moss...

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Well said CL, Moss should be the most deadly #2 in the league, he is miscast as a #1 receiver.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 15, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Beaner - when I'm wrong up here I fess up. I just wish others would do the same.

I see people talk so much BS up here and never come clean.

And if people weren't STILL talkin' smack I wouldn't be saying anything. So send me where you want... you can ITA anyone ya want... I really don't care.

If people are throwing up BS, I'll make my comments as I see fit.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

... Frosty could tackle (proven). He was a good holder. While he didn't have tons of distance, he did have manageable placement. He also could long kick. ...

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2008 9:35 AM

He also did pretty well in the lucky bounce and lucky roll departments.

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Thanks, guys. Just every so often I think it's good to remind people, 'cause we have a lot of newbies and hop-ons, that we do talk to sources, that we are honest when we say something is sourced. I swear on the 2008 NFL Record & Fact Book that this is true.

Posted by: CindyBoren | October 15, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

No MOSS is a definite #1 the diffrence between him and Randy is Randy is crazy tall and can jump even higher a QB can toss one up and Randy can get it above anyone. Santana is an obvious #1 but he cannot do that being 5'8 you have to get the ball in his hands, im dissapointed in the lack of screens he has gotten.

Posted by: Stu27 | October 15, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

"Beaner - when I'm wrong up here I fess up. I just wish others would do the same"

Good for you...the whole "I was right/you were wrong" aspect just screams of a petulant child.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

The team's play this weekend will be a barometer of where they can go under Zorn. If they kick some Cleveland booty and play solidly I'm calling Kornheiser to get The Bandwagon overhauled. Maybe upgrade the tranny to that new CVT Portismatic model. I heard Duron has a new qucik changing shade of burgundy with a super tough finish. Just dreaming for now though.
Now which of the kids has that Hogs plush toy under his bed?

Posted by: ILikeSonny | October 15, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Oh man what a beautiful morning. That was awesome.
JM220, if you can't find your hammer this morning I think I know who took it.

Cindy, if you could send Truth and Reddmv to their rooms for a timeout later, that would be nice too. And it looks like Greg needs a nap.
You ROCK!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 15, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I hate to bring politics into this, but there seems to be a distinct parallel between the Redskins punting situation and the Presidential Race.

The Republicans suck and everyone knows it. Some blindly defend them, but deep down everyone knows they suck.

They suck so bad in fact, that we're going to bring in an uproven rookie who is equally sucky. But that's OK because it's a new and different kind of sucky that we'll put up with for a little while before we start calling for his head.

end rant.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 15, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Cleveland blitzed their corners like mad against the gints...hope we are prepared to handle it.

Also, I thought the left side of the o-line was strong with Thomas at left tackle.

Posted by: cosomfla | October 15, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

...or rip me a new one.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2008 9:38 AM

Hey, this is a call to action! C'mon, people, new ones don't rip themselves! F cL (for no particular reason other than to get the bulldozer ready for the Browns).

And on the UFO formation, I say block dirty. Stop them where they live ... in the rabachs.

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

So, as it turns out, that Chad Johnson/OchoCinco trade wasn't overvalued........

Oh, and everyone is praising the trade in the media, including the tool Mortenson...

1 point to our FO

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Please I don't want to go on and on about this there are 100's of examples of it being done. You think D coords never said to themselves, "Gee that Jerry Rice guy is pretty good maybe we should try and stop him?" Of course they did. Good teams find a way...

Posted by: Gweez

It's nowhere near that simple. Very, very few players consistently beat double and triple teams. And Santana Moss is not Jerry Rice. That's almost equivalent to saying "why can't Clinton Portis get 5.0 YPC running behind a struggling line, I mean Barry Sanders used to do it".

The only WR currently in this league I've seen do it on a consistent basis is Randy Moss. TO doesn't beat double teams, despite what many think of him. Every great "#1" WR (other than Moss) gets either singled up or played in a zone at some point or another. This is generally because (a) his QB is able to pick apart single coverage elsewhere, (b) his RB is able to pound out yards against a soft front, or (c) because there's another threat on the field that warrants double coverage. TO has all of the above in Romo, Barber/Jones, and Witten (he's also had McNabb/Westbrook, Garcia before that, Young/Rice before that). Harrison has had Manning, Edge/Addai, and Wayne. Chad Johnson and Houshmandzadeh have had each other and Carson Palmer. Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce had each other, Kurt Warner/Marc Bulger, and Marshall Faulk/Stephen Jackson. The list goes on.

The last 2 games, even with a struggling offensive line, JC has methodically been able to move the ball through Cooley and ARE, and CP has killed defenses on the ground. That's because Santana Moss is constantly being double and triple covered. Eliminate the stupid mistakes, and this team scores just as many points as they did against the Saints, Arizona, and Dallas. If they want to take away Moss, they're letting CP, Cooley, and ARE play against undermanned competition. I'll take that any day. Moss is just as dangerous a #1 as anybody else in the league. Right now, teams are playing "pick your poison", just as they do with every other great #1 WR. When teams decide that Portis is too dangerous to let run loose, Moss will get his share of the ball again, you can be sure of that.

Posted by: psps23 | October 15, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Should be a good game Sunday.

BTW, if a 3 point stance has 1 hand and 2 feet on the ground then 2 hands and 2 feet on the ground should be a 4 point stance. Is a 2 point stance 1 hand and one foot? That's silly.

Posted by: jgluke | October 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Nobody's going to criticize the Girls. They're America's team.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I thought we offered 2 number 1 for Ocho Cinco? Chad Johnson is 30 and Roy Williams is 26. Roy Williams will probably be playing for the Cowboys for 8 years.

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Checking out the punter stats at the NFL site, I got confused.

Why is Plackemeier at the top of the list? I can't figure out which category is the one where he has the highest or lowest stats.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=PUNTER&season=2008&seasonType=REG

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Original, that's my best laugh of the day so far. Like all great humor, there's a large helping of truth in it.
Why don't you come down to Beaufort SC and run for mayor, you get my vote!
Somehow I just can't get the bloodlust going against Cleveland, they're so pathetic. Any fans who wore bags on their heads make me go "Aw shucks". Or carried a box of Milk Bones.

Posted by: ILikeSonny | October 15, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

greg, you typical dellusional fan you! you betcha! ;) rays have been better than the sox ALL year. not "right now". BUT they do have dice-K going for them next game. me thinks you guys are missing a crazy/whacko/who has no sense or could care less of the enormity of the situation hitter like manny.

jm, i hate to say this brother. but you're starting to sound like barno with all those incoherent anti-jasno posts.

jasno, i don't think this is a trap game. not even close. browns couldn't have done any better with kellen winslow. gints aren't that bad now! BUT browns are the most penalized team in the league i think. so hopefully greg brings the blitz on those many a 3rd and long situmations on sunday. it's not even close to being a trap game.

anyone know what the line is at for this game? it should be around 6/7.

Posted by: dealer1 | October 15, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I don't know what is worse, lamenting Pierce getting away 4 years later, or talking trades that didn't happen.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I don't know what is worse, lamenting Pierce getting away 4 years later, or talking trades that didn't happen.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse


Why choose? Perhaps we could have gotten 4 years out of Pierce then traded him with 1 first rounder for Ocho Cinco. Just sayin...

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

eTrod - I usually hate the pols up in heah, but that was hilarious!

Sween - I want Chris Kluwe! he's got 3 TD's he he he....

Weezie - I can't really fault the RW trade, if they do well, they're late round pics. If they do poorly, they get RW for a long time... A fairly proven stud rec. It might not pay off this year, but where's the fault? Cowgoils are one of the few teams that should have pulled that trigger.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 15, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

deal, I think the Sox played the Rays 18 times, and they held the advantage 10-8, so its still pretty close, but in this series, they're just mashing. Lowell being out hurts, Ortiz hasn't been right all year, Beckett isn't the Beckett that we need, so hopefully Dice is brining his game #1 game tomorrow....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

It had a chance to go to two #1s, but was originally a #1 and #3.

I feel like you guys defending JLa sometimes when I have to defend the FO with all the bashing by posters. But no one wants to stick up for them.

Dudes, we are 4-2 and people are whinning about Vinny's radio show. Why?

Players always question moves by the FO, but they are players. They don't own the team. The team makes the decision and the have a big SJKing payroll in the personnel and coaching departments.

Vinny picked the coach all of you, including JLa now, are jocking on..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

skinz, i think it's jc not wanting to force things and the team having 2 really good outlets in cooley and portis that is keeping moss shut-out.

i don't know about you guys...but whenever i see jc throwing a long ball i know he's throwing it to an open receiver and the defender is usually nowhere near the receiver when he throws it. and that's a good feeling.

Posted by: dealer1 | October 15, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

4th,

What about a call for analytical approach not blind defending?

Vinny has made some inspired moves, and step in dog SJK. Janso can at times bring great reporting and insight (he nailed why the Skins would lose to Rams if they did lats week) and yes he can act chrulish d-bag sometimes....

Thats how I see it anyway...others may differ...

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Roy Williams isn't that great. He never played for a competetive team and dropped the ball often.

He may be the offensive version of Roy Williams.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Agreed dealer.

Thanks for the clarification 4th.

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

dealio, looks like the spread is in the neighborhood of 7 or 7.5

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/odds;_ylt=Ao73hsK35JuiBjG0.2LqWNNDubYF

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

CL, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree...

I'm more in the gray area anyway, to be honest. But, I'm all for the players on the field.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

4th, you mean the 6th definition?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jocking

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

wow skins are favored by 7 1/2! wow! hopefully all the "pundits" get off our bandwagon this week.

Posted by: dealer1 | October 15, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

My take on the whole JLa-FO feud is that it makes them both look like chooches. However the biggest chooch of them all His Choochness Larry Michaels the extra "S" is for SJK.

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

4th, seems like we agree then.....

Dude and as for the playas on the filed I am %100 down with them, no doubt!

I am just for less emotion, and more critical thinking and analysis on all fronts....

Smart rulz
dumb droolz

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

What is the status of KWinslow this week?? Didn't he hurt his junk or something like that??

So Springs covers Edwards, and Rogers covers Stallworth, sound about right...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | October 15, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Its always something with that bambino Winslow....maybe earache this week?

Posted by: chrislarry | October 15, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

From the context, I think I found it ... the second part of definition #14:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=2&term=Jockin+

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Springs on Winslow, Carlos on Edwards, Smoot on Stallworth. Gotta treat Winslow like a WR. That would be my vote.

Posted by: psps23 | October 15, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

How can it be a trap game if everyone knows they just beat the SB winners and we just got beaten in a rreal trap game last week against the Rams? If the Skins lose this, it's not because they didn't respect the oponent.

Dumb lead.........

Posted by: jahs4fun | October 15, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

A trap game occurs when the circumstances leading up to a game causes a team to overlook their opponent and be emotionally flat. Any possibility of the Cleveland game being a "trap" for the Redskins evaporated when they got embarassed by the lowly Rams at home and the Browns crushed the Giants.

Posted by: rbpalmer | October 15, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

larry michaelS should be fired if they win this game. if they don't yeah they'll need the used car salesman. they should've kept bram weinstein instead of this...this...this...thing. he wann that polished but he coulda been.

anyone know what happened to strawberry shortcake on sunday? did she just take a day off or is there something more to it? just wondering...cuz i think she woulda asked better questions of greg than the guy interviewing him this sunday...

Posted by: dealer1 | October 15, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Sween,

Jockin always meant "sweatin" or like kissing someone's SJK where I grew up.

Posted by: Gweez | October 15, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

just curious if you guys thought that marcus washington looked good this past game? i thought he looked much faster/quicker than he has in a long time...wonder wha happened...

Posted by: dealer1 | October 15, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

On Kellen Winslow, the wikipedia entry for his condition (its called "hydrocele" and I'm not going to link it, it sends shudders) suggests surgery is indicated, if not required. My guess is no Winslow, but instead Darnell Dinkins (who caught a 22 yard TD pass).

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

F Larry Michael

Posted by: alex35332 | October 15, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

I misread 4th's line about jockin' on ... re-reading it I see he was referring to us on Zorn, not Vinny. Now I get it.

Posted by: dcsween | October 15, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

beep beep.
locker room opens at noon, practice is around 1. there's no presser skedded for the newbies...

Posted by: CindyBoren | October 15, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

I don't think anyone is a fan of Larry Michaels, not realeted to Chris LarRy Micheal......

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 15, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Cindy,

I myself have no doubt as to the validity of your sources at Redskin Park. Still, it is the journalist that decides which source's opinions he or she will choose to print, and with JLC, I always see opinions from sources who find the moves made by the front office to be dubious.

I'm glad that JLC lets us know if their are players unhappy or uncertain of the organizations moves or direction, but for every player who questions a decision made by upper management, how many are saying they felt the decision was reasonable? I rarely, if ever see these opinions in print...which is fine if there are no such opinions, which should absolutely then be a story in itself.

The objective in journalism is not supposed to be to simply ruffle feathers, or print the negative. Certainly negative storylines are flashier, and gather more attention, so I can totally understand how this happens - but true objective journalism is to print both sides of the issue; in this case, unnamed vets who find the roster moves made the other day questionable, and those (named or unnamed) who find them reasonable.

This approach gives us faithful (fanatical?) insider readers the whole story, and lets us come to our own conclusions regarding our front office's competence based on all the facts available.


Posted by: shaunsherman12 | October 15, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Couldn't agree more with Nate, et al that this is NOT a "trap game". This is a tough inter-conference tilt against a team that clearly was one good start from their QB from turning it around. Their defense is decent, Edwards and Winslow (is he playing this week? I'm guessing yes) are studs, Jamal Lewis can still run, and Anderson is not an elite QB but he did make the Pro Bowl last yr and can play, albeit inconsistently. After last week's debacle at home against the STL, there is no such thing as a trap game. Add in the Browns beating the Giants...this is gonna be a tough game. I expect one of our most intense efforts of the season and a win to right the ship.
HTTR

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 15, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Sorry if this has already been covered, but Shaun Alexander is listed as jersey #35 on the Skins roster. Not the #37 jersey newly vacated by the unfortunate Mr. Doughty. Interesting. For those of us who care about these things, which I realize isn't all of us.

Also from the roster, this gives us two Shauns (Alexander and Suisham) and one Shawn (Springs). No Seans.

Also from the roster, a belated happy 24th birthday to LaRon Landry (10/14/84).

http://www.redskins.com/team/index.jsp?d-49681-o=2&d-49681-p=1&d-49681-s=1

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 15, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Happy B-day LaRon! I feel a big game from him Sunday.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 15, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Nate what's the scuttlebutt (love that word) in the Pacific Northwest about Alexander? Does he have any juice in the battery? Any fire in the belly? Frank Hannerhan asked Coach Z how SA looked on his radio show yesterday and he said "very fit" which I guess is a start.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | October 15, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

YOoooooooo,

Anyone hear whether it will be Jansen or Heyer starting at RT this weekend???????????????????????????

Posted by: marleyb313 | October 15, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

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