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At the bye: Special teams have their ups, downs

Our at-the-bye series concludes with Barry Svrluga's dissection of special teams. On Wednesday, Rick Maese posted on the defense; on Thursday, Jason Reid looked at the offense.

When the season began, the Redskins figured they would be vastly improved at punter, might be shaky at place kicker, would be solid on coverage teams, and might have trouble breaking punt returns.

Seven weeks in, the most troubling aspect of the club's special teams comes from that punt return unit, where veteran Antwaan Randle El continues to struggle with gaining positive yardage and now appears to have a problem with ball security.

But before we get to that, the positives:

The Redskins selected punter Durant Brooks in the sixth round of the 2008 draft, an unmitigated disaster. Brooks was cut midway through the season, and his replacement -- journeyman Ryan Plackemeier -- fared little better. For the year, Washington averaged 33.4 yards in net punting, worst in the NFL.

So in the offseason, the Redskins signed free agent Hunter Smith, who spent 10 years and never missed a game with Indianapolis. Smith's 43.4-yard average and 38.8-yard net are both significant improvements from last year's Redskins output. The problem: Smith suffered a groin injury that cost him two games; replacement Glenn Pakulak averaged just 38.3 yards per kick with a 33.2-yard net. All told, Redskins' opponents are averaging 6.0 yards per punt return, which ranks eighth in the league, and with Smith back healthy, the position appears much more stable than it did a year ago.

The reverse was true at kicker. Shaun Suisham was coming off an erratic 2008 in which he missed 10 of his 26 field goals, giving him the worst percentage of any kicker in the league who attempted more than 10 field goals. So the Redskins brought in veteran Dave Raynor to push Suisham in the offseason and through training camp.

The decision to keep Suisham over Raynor has worked out well. Suisham is perfect on nine field-goal attempts, the longest being 47 yards. He had one of his 10 extra-point attempts blocked, but that came in one of the team's two wins -- over Tampa Bay. Suisham's kickoffs have been consistent enough that Washington's opponents are averaging just 19.9 yards per return, which ranks third in the league.

The Redskins may not have big-play potential on kickoff returns, but special teams captain Rock Cartwright continues to do a solid job. Cartwright is sure-handed and runs north-south -- something we'll address a bit later. The Redskins' average of 23.4 yards per return is 13th in the league -- not great, not terrible, but certainly not one of the top 10 concerns for this team.

Which brings us to ... punt returns.

There are, of course, major concerns on offense, beginning with the banged-up offensive line, the inability to develop a second receiver, Jason Campbell's consistency, etc. But if there is one go-get-a-beer moment for Redskins fans, when almost nothing positive could happen, it's when the opponent punts.

In Antwaan Randle El's final year in Pittsburgh, 2005, he averaged 10.2 yards per return. In his first year in Washington, that number dropped to 8.8 yards. In 2007, it was 6.1, and in 2008, it was 6.5. And this year: 5.2 yards on his 11 returns, which does not count his 11 fair catches or -- and again, we'll get to this -- his two fumbles.

Start with the actual returns. Coaches acknowledge that too often, Randle El begins a return by running laterally. "He wants to run north-south," Coach Jim Zorn said almost pleadingly a couple of weeks ago. That gets Randle El in a bit of a bind the moment he makes the catch. At 30, he is no longer the explosive return man the Redskins brought in from Pittsburgh. His last return of more than 40 yards came in 2006, and he has only two returns of more than 20 yards in the past two seasons. Of players with at least seven punt returns on the season -- or one per week -- Randle El's 5.2-yard average per return ranks 27th in the league.

Adding to the ineffectiveness: Randle El has 11 fair catches. Only one player, Jim Leonhard of the New York Jets, has more with 12. Obviously, many fair catches are smart plays, and several of Randle El's have come inside Washington's 20-yard line. But Randle El's proclivity to raise his hand lends to the feeling that the Redskins' punt return team is not likely to give the team an advantage in field position.

Still, Zorn and special teams coach Danny Smith have kept Randle El back there on most returns because they can't afford potential injuries to the more explosive Santana Moss (four returns for a 3.8-yard average) or cornerback DeAngelo Hall, who was back on one punt against the Eagles but didn't have the opportunity for a return.

Also, Zorn considers -- or at least considered -- Randle El to be the more sure-handed option. But two of the most significant plays in recent losses involved Randle El mishandling the ball on punts.

The loss at Carolina completely turned on a Panthers punt with 10 minutes remaining and the Redskins holding a 17-12 lead. Randle El came up to catch the punt just over the Washington 20-yard line, but a Carolina player blocked Redskins cornerback Byron Westbrook into Randle El, who couldn't hold onto the ball. The Panthers recovered and scored the go-ahead touchdown moments later.

In the Monday night loss to Philadelphia, the Redskins had pulled within 17-7 with six minutes left in the second quarter, and had a chance to make it a ballgame at halftime. But Randle El muffed another punt. The Eagles recovered at the Washington 25, kicked a field goal, and ended up with a 27-7 lead at halftime.

If the Redskins are to improve after the bye week, they must get more out of their return units because, as Hunter Smith said recently, "We're a field-position team."

Chat today

Jason Reid will take your questions at 11 a.m.

By Barry Svrluga  |  October 30, 2009; 7:00 AM ET
 
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Next: Samuels placed on IR list (updated)

Comments

Special Teams?

Keep Suisham. I don't want him becoming the next Akers.

ARE is gone after this year anyway so see what we got in Devin as a returner.

Rock Cartright is too important; especially on special teams coverage.

Posted by: Vicc | October 30, 2009 7:15 AM | Report abuse

And you can go out and build your offense with a great O-line, WRs, and RBs, but if you don't get a QB who can move in the pocket and get them the ball, your team will struggle.

Ask K.Collins, J.Delhomme, T.Jackson, even the Oher/Gaither anchored Ravens whose defense accrues turnovers and points.

Pittsburg was struggling without Big Ben despite their defense always playing great. That's why when they were drafting high enough, they took Big Ben. Now their franchise is set for a long time.

I'm sorry, but O-line is not the only position of need for us and when building a franchise, you start with the QB first..then the rest.

MORE TIMES THAN NOT, SB WINNERS BOAST A QB WHO HAS PLAYED AT A PRO-BOWL LEVEL.

Even Eli made it to the Pro-Bowl after his Superbowl year, so it's not surprising.

Posted by: Vicc | October 30, 2009 7:28 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins selected punter Durant Brooks in the sixth round of the 2008 draft, an unmitigated disaster. Brooks was cut midway through the season...

By Barry Svrluga | October 30, 2009; 7:00 AM ET

Well, Barry, you don't have much of a memory for facts, do you? Brooks beat out Frost for the job. And when he was cut it was because he was injured. The Redskins had asked him to punt while he was injured, something they didn't do with Hunter Smith.

So, drafting a guy who gets injured qualifies as "an unmitigated disaster"? Come on, it can't be anything worse than a mitigated disaster.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 7:52 AM | Report abuse

I think it is another example of how lazy the front office is when your punt return specialist is a joke and yet the team isn't working out any punt return specialists. With such an anemic offense, gaining the most yardage on punt returns should be of considerable importance to the Redskins. There are free agents out there who are punt return specialists but they are not with a team because that is all they are (isn't Dante Hall a free agent?). To me, it would make perfect sense for Washington to sign one of those guys. If you can burn a roster spot for a fifth running back that you never used, I think you can find a spot for a punt returner who might get you better field position. As I said, laziest front office in the league - they don't even try to make the team better by combing the market for better players than they have.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 8:03 AM | Report abuse

rsh, how about that Samuels hasn't been put on IR, and that there hasn't been a steady stream of OL guys through the park?? Screw punt returns, I'll take finding some quality guys to block WAY ahead of that.

Matsui took that one off the shoe-tops last night...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Vicc wrote:

I'm sorry, but O-line is not the only position of need for us and when building a franchise, you start with the QB first..then the rest.

------------------------------------------
I totally disagree with this statement. A quarterback cannot throw if he is being planted in the turf every play. A solid wall in front of that quarterback is the best way to ensure he has the time to develop. I have seen a lot of quarterbacks come out of college and get thrown into a bad situation where the offensive line is pathetic and it is not pretty. David Carr would be one example. I am certain the Texans ruined that guy by putting him in too early behind a shaky line. You don't pay a guy millions of dollars a year and then stick him behind a bunch of Walmart greeters. Also, a good offensive line implies that you will create a considerable threat as a running team, and this takes heat off the quarterback. So, draft your quarterback AFTER the "save the whales" campaign. In next year's draft Washington should shoot for drafting over a thousand pounds of offensive beef with their first three picks.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg1,
The offensive line was my rant a couple of days ago. When you think about it, the Redskins' record implies that there have got to be some better players out there somewhere - at any position - and the front office should be working its collective butt off to find those players. Oh, but I forgot - Vinny has assembled a playoff caliber roster already, and it is just Jim Zorn who is the problem. Pay no attention to the missed blocks and muffed punts... those are illusions sent by the anti-Vinnans just to confuse you...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Matsui took that one off the shoe-tops last night...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Beantown, Good to see you appreciating a Yankees performance...being a Sox fan and all..Godzilla wont be with us next year I just hope your Sox don't pick him up..Do you think they will? Would you want them to?

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 30, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Vicc wrote:

I'm sorry, but O-line is not the only position of need for us and when building a franchise, you start with the QB first..then the rest.

------------------------------------------
I totally disagree with this statement.....
Posted by: RedSkinHead


Redskinhead...I agree with you..no OL=no O production...especially by the QB

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 30, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

So, drafting a guy who gets injured qualifies as "an unmitigated disaster"? Come on, it can't be anything worse than a mitigated disaster.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 7:52 AM | Report abuse


Brooks was awful. Beating out Frost for the job is like being prettier than your bunk mate at fat camp.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 30, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Brooks was awful. Beating out Frost for the job is like being prettier than your bunk mate at fat camp.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 30, 2009 8:34 AM

Brooks punted well until he got injured.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

jcn, I can appreciate someone hitting a ball like that, regardless of the uni...

I can't see Matsui in a sox uniform, I don't know where they'd put him. Jacoby in cf/Drew in rf, and hopefully they re-sign bay. That doesn't leave very many at-bats for godzilla....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/30/redskins-insider-striving-to-find-something-that-w/

Some creative ideas from Mr. O'Halloran. I particularly like the unbalanced line idea as I see the skins relying heavily on the run game to keep out of third and long situations.

Posted by: TWISI | October 30, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Washington should shoot for drafting over a thousand pounds of offensive beef with their first three picks.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

This is absolutely correct. We all know that OL are usually safe, start now, picks. And we need them so badly. This could be the first year of building our team thru the draft. Dock and Rabach will be fine for 2 more years but we need LT, RT, and another Guard. If not, then we are screwed as fans cause our FO must have ridden the short bus to school. QB 1st round is a huge mistake.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 30, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

I see the skins relying heavily on the run game to keep out of third and long situations.

Posted by: TWISI | October 30, 2009 8:45 AM |

Redskins will only stay out of 3rd and long if there are lots of penalties against the defense.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

I totally agree. The thing skippy up there is missing is that all those teams built their lines first then drafted their QBs. Go back and look at the last 3-4 Ravens drafts. Check out Atlanta, Miami, Jets, and see what the Colts/Pats did prior to getting their QBs too. Great teams are great teams, not average teams with a great player. The colts have allowed 2 sacks this year and the Pats always had pro bowl caliber linemen. The reason you build the line first is so that the QB can worry about read progression and reading the defenses instead of trying to save his own skin. With a crappy offensive line the QB never develops. They are simply stuck in self preservation mode. Bad lines kill QBs. I want an offense so good that any QB can run it.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Philadelphia double- or triple-teamed him on 21 of 42 snaps.

For those who think that AH isn't earning his money...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Washington should shoot for drafting over a thousand pounds of offensive beef with their first three picks.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

This is absolutely correct. We all know that OL are usually safe, start now, picks. And we need them so badly. This could be the first year of building our team thru the draft.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 30, 2009 8:50 AM

With as many needs as we have, locking into the OL with the first three picks makes about as much sense as three second round receivers.

You see who is available in free agency, first. You might have a gift fall into your lap like Dockery or Hall. Then you see who's on the board when you're drafting. You don't know what gifts might fall into your lap on the board or through trades.

Especially if you see rebuilding as a multi-year project and not the win-it-all-now approach that characterized Gibbs, Snyder, and Cerrato.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Our draft should be offensive linemen only, plus a running back. Those are the profound weaknesses of our team. It was the reason we started last year 6-2 (when all was healthy) and the reason we've sh!t the bed ever since.

re: Brooks, the reason it was a complete disaster was that we drafted him. Nobody drafts a punter...well...except Vinny Cerrato. We could have signed him as a free agent without wasting a pick.

Posted by: Section104 | October 30, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

ls/te, I somewhat agree, but also disagree with you.

Go after alex barron, but then you HAVE to invest your first 2 picks in the draft on OL...anything else, and its just spinning your wheels...drafting a qb will have the same result as what we're seeing now...draft a LT, and a C, stick Mike Williams in at RG, and Barron at RT. Do not draft any guys who weight less than 320...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

SKINS NEED A NEW QB WHO CAN READ COVERAGES BETTER AND QUICK BEFORE THROWING THE BALL,PPL THINK ITS ALL ABOUT PROTECTION,YES .BUT JC JUS DOES NOT SEE WHAT THE OPPONENT IS DOIN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BALL,I KNOW HE WATCHES A LOT OF FILM BUT HEY HE JUS CANT MAKE IT HAPPEN ON THE FIELD.HE IS AN OK QB BUT CANT REALLY TAKE THE SKINS FAR IM SORRY

Posted by: BEE5N2002 | October 30, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I want an offense so good that any QB can run it.
Posted by: PAskinsfan17

Like Theisman, Ryp, & D. Williams...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 30, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan17 good point. Peyton has been sacked what, 2 times this year compared to JC's 20. WTF man, thats crazy. That just shows how superior their line is to ours. It's just F ing mind blowing. We need to start the youth movement on the O line ASAP.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 30, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Without a major change in the way Snyder conducts his business, this team will never win on a consistent basis. Secondly, Cerrato has got to go! Zorn, who most people are pulling for, is really over his head in this assignment. Snyder should sell or put all of his energies into identifying a strong GM who will take over! The issues are just too numerous to discuss within this format. Needless to say, 10-years under Snyder has produced basically zilch. He would have fired himself years ago if he was working at Snyder Communicationis.

Posted by: antietam1862 | October 30, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Top 10 OL free agents for 2010
Mike Gandy, Arizona Cardinals
Chad Clifton, Green Bay Packers
Daryn Colledge, Green Bay Packers
Marcus McNeill, San Diego Chargers
Jahri Evans, New Orleans Saints
as well as Kevin Mawae but he is getting old

They say Marcus McNeil and Jahri Evans will be the gems of the free agent class, both sound good to get, especially if we are done with R. Thomas contract and Samuels if he retires.

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

mhartz, isn't barron a fa as well??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan17 good point. Peyton has been sacked what, 2 times this year compared to JC's 20. WTF man, thats crazy. That just shows how superior their line is to ours. It's just F ing mind blowing. We need to start the youth movement on the O line ASAP.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 30, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

You have to give some credit to Peyton too. The guy just gets rid of the ball so fast. Even with an average line he'd take less sacks than any other QB. Unfortunately there is only 1 Peyton Manning so the other teams are stuck with somebody else. I do have to say that even he would suck with our line. I mean look at what happened to him when his line got messed up. He threw 6 picks in 1 frreakin game.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

He is...but they dont have Barron listed as a top FA OL, they have him listed as a second tier FA, here is the rest of that list:

Eugene Amano, Tennessee Titans (27)
David Baas, San Francisco 49ers (27)
Khalif Barnes, Oakland Raiders (27)
Alex Barron, St. Louis Rams (26)
Jeromey Clary, San Diego Chargers (25) – Restricted FA
Ryan Cook, Minnesota Vikings (26)
Rex Hadnot, Cleveland Browns (27)
Ben Hamilton, Denver Broncos (32)
Justin Hartwig, Pittsburgh Steelers (30)
Richie Incognito, St. Louis Rams (26)
Jon Jansen, Washington Redskins (33)
Charlie Johnson, Indianapolis Colts (25)
Nick Kaczur, New England Patriots (30)
Chris Kuper, Denver Broncos (26)
Deuce Lutui, Arizona Cardinals (26)
Stephen Neal, New England Patriots (32)
Rudy Niswanger, Kansas City Chiefs (26)
Donald Penn, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (26)
Chester Pitts, Houston Texans (30)
Chris Spencer, Seattle Seahawks (27)
Jason Spitz, Green Bay Packers (26)
Adam Terry, Baltimore Ravens (27)
Jeremy Trueblood, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (26)
Bobbie Williams, Cincinnati Bengals (32)
Marshal Yanda, Baltimore Ravens (24)

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Brooks was awful. Beating out Frost for the job is like being prettier than your bunk mate at fat camp.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 30, 2009 8:34 AM

Brooks punted well until he got injured.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

wikipedia would beg to differ...he sucked. he only beat out frost cause he was vinny's draft pick and vinny didnt want to be embarrased...

After week 6 of the 2008 NFL season reports surfaced that Brooks was to be replaced by a veteran due to his poor performance. His gross average of 39.6 yards and net average of 32.1 yards were last in the NFL at the time.[

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 30, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Barron just held Jared Allen without a sack a few weeks back, so they can second tier him all they want, that cat can play....

sad that we're already looking forward to the offseason, and free agency....sigh

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

re: Brooks, the reason it was a complete disaster was that we drafted him. Nobody drafts a punter...well...except Vinny Cerrato. We could have signed him as a free agent without wasting a pick.

Posted by: Section104 | October 30, 2009 9:00 AM

Wrong. Punters are drafted every year.

2 were drafted in 2009 -- both in the 5th round.
3 were drafted in 2007
2 were drafted in 2006
2 were drafted in 2005
2 were drafted in 2004

Etc.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Here is what they say about McNeil and Evans for OL:

McNeil:
McNeill is one of the league’s best young left tackles and will be compensated as such at the end of this season. The Chargers have a number of key free agents at the end of the year, but you’d have to imagine that McNeill will be one of their top priorities. McNeill had neck surgery over the offseason, but is back at 100%. If he can remain healthy and continue to display excellence on the field, he should be rewarded as one of the better linemen in the game.

Evans:
If you ask scouts around the league who they believe is the best player on the Saints roster, some may be tempted to choose Jahri Evans over Drew Brees and Jammal Brown. Playing right now on the highest Restricted Tender ($2.792 million), the Saints will assuredly make Evans one of the highest paid guards in the game at some point in the near future. What’s scary for the rest of the NFL is that Evans is level-headed, humble, and is striving to become truly great. Expect the Saints, who have nothing but positive things to say towards Evans, to richly reward him for his hard work and production.

Both sound like immediate upgrades, but also long term solutions, to where we could still draft another OL, LB and RB in the draft

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Without a major change in the way Snyder conducts his business, this team will never win on a consistent basis. Secondly, Cerrato has got to go! Zorn, who most people are pulling for, is really over his head in this assignment.
Posted by: antietam1862


Why do we keep regurgitating the same old stuff..Synder ruin the team!..Vinny should be fired!...Zorn's overwhelmed!...We get it! Try to be a little more original...Come up with something new to discuss...This blog is starting to read like JReid is posting every entry...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 30, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

It is sad that we are already talking about it, but I think next year will be a down one for us as well, esp with a new coach, possibly most probably a new QB and new RB??

Having said that, I think if we could pick up one true stud OL in FA and 1 strong Depth OL, than we will be doing quite well with re-establishing the line. I cant imagine FO drafting 3 OL or even 2, I see maybe one and then probably QB, RB and LB, dont agree with that, but I think it could happen...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

he only beat out frost cause he was vinny's draft pick and vinny didnt want to be embarrased...

After week 6 of the 2008 NFL season reports surfaced that Brooks was to be replaced by a veteran due to his poor performance. His gross average of 39.6 yards and net average of 32.1 yards were last in the NFL at the time.[

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 30, 2009 9:30 AM

He beat out Frost because he punted better. Frost was picked up by Green Bay and was cut. Green Bay subsequently picked up Brooks and put him on their practice squad.

What average do you think an injured punter should have? His average, by the way, was still better than Pakulak's and not that much worse than Hunter Smith's.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

This blog is starting to read like JReid is posting every entry...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 30, 2009 9:36 AM |

AMEN!

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

mhartz, I can't see the saints letting him go...versus the chargers have Merriman to worry about, so they might have to make choices.

There was an article in SI this week about the Saints. Brees, works with his receivers, Meachem, Colston, Moore, and the 4th WR EVERY DAY after practice. They run every route, and he throw to them. They go out to dinner every week, and I believe the article said on Tuesday nights they watch film of the upcoming defensive backs. EVERY WEEK.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Both sound like immediate upgrades, but also long term solutions, to where we could still draft another OL, LB and RB in the draft

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

The problem is that most of those guys will get resigned. I highly doubt Barron, Evans, and McNiel even make it to free agency. I'd rather build throguh the draft simply because we get good young players. We could be set for 10 years at offensive line instead of just 5 years. Offensive line is such a low risk and it cost so little you mat as well make the most of it.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Man, I sure hope we get Larry Johnson if the Chiefs cut him loose.

[discuss]

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

I also would like to get Barret Ruud or one of the Raiders young FA LBs if possible...I believe in the draft, but we know that they skins build in FA with Snyder...Rocky is a FA after this year and I would let him walk and pick up a replacement in FA or draft, plus a OLB, I am worried that we are going to have to rebuild the entire LB crew...I love Fletcher, but he is getting up in age and takes a beating...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

They go out to dinner every week

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 9:38 AM


Of course they go out to dinner. They live in New Orleans. Let the good times roll! It's not like living in Bahstan where dinner means chowdah and scrod.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Paskins, I would prefer to build in draft as well, but our track record with Snyder does not suggest, but I agree, however I would take any one of those 3 if available, also San Diego has a ton of FA to resign, someone is going to squeek through. Either way, we have so many holes that we will need to use FA for depth if not at least 1 starter or more not just on OL.

F NO ON L. JOHNSON

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Man, I sure hope we get Larry Johnson if the Chiefs cut him loose.
Posted by: NateinthePDX

Not a bad idea..providing we get some decent OL with that...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 30, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Love the food in New Orleans, I am a big boy now, but if I lived there I would be like 350 easily.

Surprisingly, Cincinnati has some great restaurants.

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I also would like to get Barret Ruud or one of the Raiders young FA LBs if possible...I believe in the draft, but we know that they skins build in FA with Snyder...Rocky is a FA after this year and I would let him walk and pick up a replacement in FA or draft, plus a OLB, I am worried that we are going to have to rebuild the entire LB crew...I love Fletcher, but he is getting up in age and takes a beating...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I'd rather not take on any big contracts. I think we need to stay where we are at linebacker. We are going to need a lot of money in 2012 to resign:

Colt Brennan
Malcolm Kelly
Devin Thomas
Fred Davis
JT Tryon
Horton
Landry
Moore

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

3 coaches have complained about L Johnson and he has several problems in the locker room, on the field and off the field...I just dont see that working for us.

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Vicc, you're a fool if you believe our first priority in this draft is QB. Every good QB has developed behind a good OL. Name me 1 decent QB who developed behind a trashy OL. And you can't say Big Ben because his first 2 years in the league his OL boasted one of the best run games in the league. The reason why his OL was bad this past year was because they got rid of their veterans and re-did it. Now they're meshing and allowing him time to make the big play, in addition to his ability to get out of the pocket. No decent QB can maintain that presence of mind when he's running for his life on every play.

For all we know, if we re-do our OL this offseason, JC may turn out to be decent enough to carry the offense. All he needs to be able to do that is regain his confidence. Whether it's Sherman Lewis, or JZ or someone telling him he's awesome, or a sports psych, or whatever, I'm sure having him back here this coming year (or someone else who is CHEAP but decent) would be the best thing. If you say he's that much trash then despite the new OL, we'll pick high in the draft and get the QB we need. If he's decent, then we fill out our other needs (MLB back up, although I say blades can do fine, SSLB, CB, maybe a S, etc.). I say this year is all OL with our first 3 picks unless Vinny trades back and we still get a stud LT, a good RT, a C to develop behind Rabach, and another G later for Buges to groom (or maybe Rhinehart could develop into a good RG with playing time but we'll never know). I say the 2 tackles and C/G should be our first three picks, and then a RB to take over for portis. Sherman Lewis is getting the young WR involved and Davis is developing nicely, he just needs to practice with the OL.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | October 30, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

..also San Diego has a ton of FA to resign, someone is going to squeek through.
Posted by: mhartz1

Is Merimann a FA?...I no we need OL help but he can beast out and with Jarmon and Orakpo..we'd be tough to deal with.

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 30, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

3 coaches have complained about L Johnson and he has several problems in the locker room, on the field and off the field...I just dont see that working for us.
Posted by: mhartz1

Then on that note...F Larry Johnson

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 30, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Brooks punted well until he got injured.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Did he get hurt on the 1st day of training camp?

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 30, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

I dont think we can stay where we are at with LB, Fletcher is coming up in age, Rocky is a FA and I am sure he thinks he is worth more money than he is and Orakpo I see moving back to DE, once Daniels is gone after this year, so I think we are going to either have to draft an OLB that is a stud or get at least one FA LB.

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

I dont think Merriman is looking good this year, but he is a FA, yes....

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

The fact the Antwaan Fair Catch El is still returning punts in and of itself should be enough for Zorn to be fired. It drives me CRAZY! last week on postgame live they were interviewing DT11 and asked him if he had been trying to get in on the return game his quote was basically this "every practice I'm back there taking kicks and punts trying to show them its a part of my game, its something I love to do and its something I have done well....but you know, all I can do is make the most of the opportunities that I'm given and I think you saw that on offense tonight, me and Fred made some plays when given some real opportunities on offense, but all I can do is what the coaches let me." It was a Bmitch question and the frustration on both of their faces was very evident. This coaching staff has driven me crazy with not giving DT11, Kelly, and Davis opportunities, if you weren't going to play them why did you draft them? Not like we could have used the oline help or anything.....btw, fun to see Jamon Meredith starting and Duke Robinson playing.....they wouldn't have helped here at all cause we needed all those mid-round linebackers.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 30, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

or maybe Rhinehart could develop into a good RG with playing time but we'll never know

Exactly...how can you call the guy a bust, or say he can't play, when he played well, and the coach's took him out??

No, on LJ...just not worth it, he's 2 steps behind Portis, as far as being worn out is concerned.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | October 30, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I would sign JC to a cheap 3 year deal. We aren't winning the super bowl anytime soon anyway. With JC you can build the line and get a decent running back. Then you take a good young QB that actually fits this scheme. You can let that QB develop the right way by sitting him on the bench for a year or two. By the time that 3 year contract is up you should have a good young QB ready to lead a solid team. You can then let them compete and assumig that JC gets beat out you can either offer him backup money or let him walk. The other plus side to this is that if JC does actually become good behind the new line then you can save that upper round draft pick you were going to spend on a QB and use it somewhere else.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

The mid round LB choices that have done nothing, cant even get on the field or have already been cut, I just dont get the point of the draft pics, but again it was Cerrato - didnt we already cut one of them.

On Brees btw...I met him in New Orleans a month ago at my clients, he was helping out with a Cardiovascular Center opening, great guy, talked to him for about an hour about healthcare, football, food, etc. Stand up guy, really wish we could get some playes on our team like him.

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

I dont think Merriman is looking good this year, but he is a FA, yes....

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Pretty sure Merriman will be on his way out of SD after this year. They have a few other players to resign and I think they are getting tired of Merriman in general.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 30, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Pretty sure Merriman will be on his way out of SD after this year. They have a few other players to resign and I think they are getting tired of Merriman in general.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 30, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

I don't like Merriman. I think he was on steroids or HGH and after he got caught he quit using. I think that's the real reaosn for his lack of production. I also think that he will start getting injured more often. I really see him as having free agent bust written all over him.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

OK WE NEED CHANGE ON THE OFFENCE WE ALL KNOW THIS BUT THE DEFENSE ALSO NEED A SMALL FIX TO CREATE MORE TURNOVERS,THIS IS WHAT THEY NEED TO DO,DRAFT A NATURAL FREE SAFETY eg TAYLOR MAYS FROM USC AND PUT LARON AT THE LINE AT ALL TIMES,THIS GUY WAS PICKED 6th OVERALL,HES CUT AND WELL BUILT FOR CONTACT STOPPING THE RUN JUS LIKE HE USE TO PLAY AT LSU,ONCE THIS ADJUSTMENT IS MADE WE SHALL SEE POSITIVE RESULTS,BUT AS FOR NOW ID CONTINUE LET HIM PLAY FREE SAFETY CAUSE NO ONE ON THE ROSTER CAN PLAY THE POSITION BETTER THAN HIM PERIOD,MOORE,HORTON CANT CUT IT DOWN THERE ,FACT SAID,RIP IN PEACE #21 IF ONLY HE WAS STILL AROUND,I DOUBT THIS MESS WOULD EXIST

Posted by: BEE5N2002 | October 30, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I dont think Merriman is looking good this year, but he is a FA, yes....

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Pretty sure Merriman will be on his way out of SD after this year. They have a few other players to resign and I think they are getting tired of Merriman in general.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8

Then bring him home...let him Beast in the East...a new locker room would be just what he needs...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 30, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

I am actually ok with keeping JC cheap, cutting Collins, seeing what Brennan can do- dont like him but will give him a chance and then draft a later round pro style QB that we can work on. That would give us the ability to draft other need positions, but I dont see if happening...knowing how much disdain the FO has for JC. There are some decent FA QB's and RB available coming out if they dont sign, I know drafting is what we want, but we also dont have many draft picks...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

I don't like Merriman. I think he was on steroids or HGH and after he got caught he quit using. I think that's the real reaosn for his lack of production. I also think that he will start getting injured more often. I really see him as having free agent bust written all over him.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Agreed on Merriman being risky FA. I think his performance being affected by his health and his standing with the org.

I think dude would benefit from a fresh start with new team.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 30, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

RB available in FA:

Willie Parker, Pittsburgh Steelers
Darren Sproles, San Diego Chargers
Jerious Norwood, Atlanta Falcons
Ronnie Brown, Miami Dolphins
LenDale White, Tennessee Titans no way

Other Notable Free Agents:
Kenneth Darby, St. Louis Rams (26)
Kevin Faulk, New England Patriots (33)
Jerome Harrison, Cleveland Browns (26)
Le’Ron McClain, Baltimore Ravens (24) – Restricted FA
Adrian Peterson, Chicago Bears (30)
Kolby Smith, Kansas City Chiefs (24) – Restricted FA
Chester Taylor, Minnesota Vikings (29)
Leon Washington, New York Jets (27)
Cadillac Williams, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (27)
Ricky Williams, Miami Dolphins (32)
DeShawn Wynn, Green Bay Packers (25) – Restricted FA
Tony Richardson, New York Jets (37) – Fullback
Justin Griffith, Seattle Seahawks (29) – Fullback


Any thoughts on this list, some of these I would think would be an upgrade or at least creat a nice duo...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Washington should shoot for drafting over a thousand pounds of offensive beef with their first three picks.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse


SkinHead and anyone else who wants to adress the Oline:

Cerrato explained it all very clearly.

He already addressed the Oline by signing Dockery and bringing in Mike Williams, OK?!?!

THIS IS A PLAYOFF ROSTER!!!!!

NOW GIVE ME THAT SIGN AND TAKE OFF YOUR SHIRT!?!??!?!

Posted by: p1funk | October 30, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Special teams was better when Frost was the punter 'cause he could tackle & QB. Our coverage was better then, too.

Yes the average sucked, but that's not really the issue. He could pin 'em inside the 20 and that's all he's required to do.

Hunter has a good leg, but it 'kicks in' at the wrong times. And our coverage has become abysmal on KOs & punts.
_____________________________
And just for SJKs & giggles, Fran Tarkenton (sp?) developed with a bad O line.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 30, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Need RI Feedback:

I've got tix to the Wiz-Heat game on Wed at the club level.

I want to bring a sign/banner addressed specifically to Snyder.

I'm hoping it can get caught on TV and raise awareness regarding Snyder's gestapo tactics at FedEx.

I was thinking of something like:

"Hey Snyder, Gonna take this sign too? Go Wiz!"

Thoughts?

Posted by: p1funk | October 30, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Mostly downs....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 30, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I am actually ok with keeping JC cheap, cutting Collins, seeing what Brennan can do- dont like him but will give him a chance and then draft a later round pro style QB that we can work on. That would give us the ability to draft other need positions, but I dont see if happening...knowing how much disdain the FO has for JC. There are some decent FA QB's and RB available coming out if they dont sign, I know drafting is what we want, but we also dont have many draft picks...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 10:04 AM |

If the skins plan on signing JC on the cheap please do it now, so that JC can have one less thing to worry about at the LOS. Load the contract up with incentives JC most likely won't reach and maybe JC will stop playing so timid.

Posted by: TWISI | October 30, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Any thoughts on this list, some of these I would think would be an upgrade or at least creat a nice duo...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

would be interested in Leon Washington and Darren Sproles.

And possibly LenDale White for the right price.

I would rather see a mid round draft pick used on RB than take the other guys you have listed.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 30, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

coaches have complained about L Johnson and he has several problems in the locker room, on the field and off the field...I just dont see that working for us.

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse


Good productive running backs are widely available in the draft. If you can't get that one stud, then you can readily create a RB-by-committee situation and have a dominant run game.

What organization in their right mind would break the bank to trade for/sign another team's running back????

...errr, never mind...

Posted by: p1funk | October 30, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I would rather draft a mid round RB as well, but again, I am going on current FO strategy to build crappy teams...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

League-Source,
Today I think you are disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing, but assuming you are serious, here is why the Redskins should draft Offensive line with their first three picks:

It doesn't matter what free agents they sign, they are still going to need depth. The Redskins have backups starting and backups to the backups that shouldn't even be in the NFL. This offensive line is depleted, man. Samuels will be gone and Thomas will probably be gone, too. That leaves the team without any starters in three places on the line because I don't see a lock on the right tackle position. Plus, this makes the assumption that we couldn't upgrade at center, which I think we can and need to do. I see the Redskins needing four starters on the offensive line before the conversation even drifts to backups. This is probably too big of a task for one season - even with free agent signings, but I can't look at upgrading any other positions on the team that would benefit the team more than o-line picks.

The whole philosophy of "taking the best player available" in the draft only pans out if the team comes into the draft without any blatant holes. I would argue the Redskins have not been in this position in years. They should trade up, trade down, trade slackers from their regular roster, pick a guy early - do whatever they need to do to get quality offensive linemen. Why pick a tight end when you don't need a tight end? That's just stupid. Pick for need. The year after the team goes to the Superbowl they can draft the best player available.

As for Brooks, I would never draft a punter. The ability of a punter to make it at the next level is never a guarantee. I really can't explain why a punter bounces around for a few years from team to team and then suddenly lands with the right team and becomes a solid punter. I can't explain it, but it happens and for this reason I would always look for a veteran free agent. I think Brooks might be a good punter some day, but I bet he bounces around for a couple of years first...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I am actually ok with keeping JC cheap, cutting Collins, seeing what Brennan can do- dont like him but will give him a chance and then draft a later round pro style QB that we can work on. That would give us the ability to draft other need positions, but I dont see if happening...knowing how much disdain the FO has for JC. There are some decent FA QB's and RB available coming out if they dont sign, I know drafting is what we want, but we also dont have many draft picks...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

O yeah I agree, I'm just saying what I would do. In my heart I think snyderrato is going to take Tim Tebow in the first round. What I would like to see is a decision. Are we staying with the west coast offense? The answer to this would greatly sway my draft.

2010

If yes, we are staying with the WCO then:
R1. C.J. Spiller
R2. Brian Bulaga
R4. Selvish Capers

If no then:
R1 Russell Okung
R2 Kristofer O'Dowd/Anthony Davis
R4 Adam Ulatoski/Matt Tennant

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I think you have to get rid of JC. Not so much 'cause he isn't serviceable or whatev's, but because there's no confidence in him. Period. From anywhere. Even himself.

Get a wiley veteran who won't turn it over much and comes cheap(ish) without a front loaded contract, so he stays off the cap. There will be a few of those next season. Perhaps Kerry Collins gets cut? He'd do, I think. I'm sure there are others. Vick comes to mind too, though I doubt Philly would let us have him. I also like the idea of playing Colt.

We're going to be bad for at least two seasons, it seems. May as well committ to change so the new guys get w/ the program.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 30, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

If the skins plan on signing JC on the cheap please do it now, so that JC can have one less thing to worry about at the LOS. Load the contract up with incentives JC most likely won't reach and maybe JC will stop playing so timid.

Posted by: TWISI | October 30, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse


There is no way JC17 gets re-signed to this team.

It couldn't be more obviously clear how Danny feels about JC17. He did everything short of trading away 3 first round picks to try to replace him.

After this disaster of a season and JC17's ongoing mediocre performances, how in the world does Snydes give him an extension of any kind???

Posted by: p1funk | October 30, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

I was joking about Larry Johnson, by the way.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if someone who shall not be named would like to advocate on behalf of bringing Johnson in and converting him to wide receiver, since the greatest wide receivers in history began their careers as running backs.

Such as.

Happy Friday.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I'm with you, P1 - that's just what I was thinking would be a good idea - bring the protests to the other D.C. Sports teams - heck, if I go to the University of Houston game tomorrow, maybe I'll bring a sign, too.

Actually, come to think of it, that could be really cool, if the fair flung denizens of RI nation could bring anti-Snyder signs to sports arenas around the country.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I also think that we need to stay away from free agency. Free agency should only ever be used to patch a couple holes on a team that is a legit contender. It is not a viable team building strategy. We need to save our money to resign the young talent we have recently drafted as well as the young talent we are going to draft. We need to build this team the right way. That is through the draft.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Oh & PFunk - great idea.

You could wear a Sell the Team T-Shirt, too... lol

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 30, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I'm with you, P1 - that's just what I was thinking would be a good idea - bring the protests to the other D.C. Sports teams - heck, if I go to the University of Houston game tomorrow, maybe I'll bring a sign, too.

Actually, come to think of it, that could be really cool, if the fair flung denizens of RI nation could bring anti-Snyder signs to sports arenas around the country.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse


Yes. It would be easy and cheap publicity to keep the pressure on Snyder.

Caps, Wizards, local college games that are about to begin...these can all be venues for Skins Nation to publicly protest Snyder while boycotting his venues.

The Redskins faithful can show Furher Snyder and his Thought Police cronies Donanvan and Cerrato how stuff gets done in the United States...

Posted by: p1funk | October 30, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I agree with the draft, however I put the FA on due to how the current FO builds this team.

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

he only beat out frost cause he was vinny's draft pick and vinny didnt want to be embarrased...

After week 6 of the 2008 NFL season reports surfaced that Brooks was to be replaced by a veteran due to his poor performance. His gross average of 39.6 yards and net average of 32.1 yards were last in the NFL at the time.[

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 30, 2009 9:30 AM

He beat out Frost because he punted better. Frost was picked up by Green Bay and was cut. Green Bay subsequently picked up Brooks and put him on their practice squad.

What average do you think an injured punter should have? His average, by the way, was still better than Pakulak's and not that much worse than Hunter Smith's.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

if he's so good, what is he doing now? punters get drafted all the time, true. you know who else gets drafted all the time, OFFENSIVE LINEMAN. but we've drafted just as many of them in the past two years as we have punters. makes a lot of sense....

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 30, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

PAskins,

I hope/think you are wrong about Dan taking Tebow in the 1st.

I do think it would be hilarious to see Tebow on a team with Cooley/Portis.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 30, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

JohnD, I love the thought of giant burgundy-and-gold "F SNYDER" signs appearing in stadia across the land, in many different sports. Any RI peeps sitting behind home plate in one of the World Series games?

Let the utter humiliation continue. We have to burn the village to save it.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

I would like to see us sign one OL that is an immediate starter day 1 through FA, then the rest of the FA I would like us to get depth, then draft other needs to build...but I have a feeling that alot of the youngsters that are here, wont be here all that long. Again, it all depends with who the coach is, if we have a new GM, etc.

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 30, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Well, to be fair, dcsf1, you only play five O linemen on every offensive snap, but you need a punter for one play in a good percentage of your offensive series.

So what looks like a simple error in draft strategy -- drafting as many punters as O linemen the past two years -- is in fact a sucking chest wound that has hastened the implosion of our franchise.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Nate - it would be awesome - I'm thinking here of what games in Houston would be most visible

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

La'Ron Mclaine i think would be a good free agent pick up and get rid of Betts. Please no Tebow

Posted by: swalker5 | October 30, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Guessing the Portland State Vikings are probably not in the category of teams whose games are likely to be "visible"... though the cognitive dissonance of having one fan in a largely empty stadium during a I-AA college game vigorously rooting against the owner of a professional team 3,000 miles away strikes an appealingly absurdist chord with me...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Man, I sure hope we get Larry Johnson if the Chiefs cut him loose.

[discuss]

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 9:41 AM

Cut him loose? No way, Nate. The Skins should trade a 1st AND a 3rd right now to get him!

Posted by: 4-12 | October 30, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Hmm... I like the way you think, 4-12... very shrewd.

Clearly you're front office material... assuming you're willing to drop that pernicious, indefensible pro-media bias.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

"... as Hunter Smith said recently, 'We're a field-position team.'"


I'd like that "field-position" to include more of the, how do you say, 'end-zone?'

Posted by: 4-12 | October 30, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

really, Nate - that would probably get headlines...

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

If the skins plan on signing JC on the cheap please do it now, so that JC can have one less thing to worry about at the LOS. Load the contract up with incentives JC most likely won't reach and maybe JC will stop playing so timid.

Posted by: TWISI
----------------------

The Management doesn't motivate by reassurances, they motivate by publicly threatening your job in various ways. It's working out great!

Posted by: REXskins | October 30, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

redskinhead: "but assuming you are serious, here is why the Redskins should draft Offensive line with their first three picks:

It doesn't matter what free agents they sign, they are still going to need depth. The Redskins have backups starting and backups to the backups that shouldn't even be in the NFL. This offensive line is depleted, man. Samuels will be gone and Thomas will probably be gone, too. That leaves the team without any starters in three places on the line because I don't see a lock on the right tackle position. Plus, this makes the assumption that we couldn't upgrade at center, which I think we can and need to do. I see the Redskins needing four starters on the offensive line before the conversation even drifts to backups. This is probably too big of a task for one season - even with free agent signings, but I can't look at upgrading any other positions on the team that would benefit the team more than o-line picks.

The whole philosophy of "taking the best player available" in the draft only pans out if the team comes into the draft without any blatant holes. I would argue the Redskins have not been in this position in years. They should trade up, trade down, trade slackers from their regular roster, pick a guy early - do whatever they need to do to get quality offensive linemen. Why pick a tight end when you don't need a tight end? That's just stupid. Pick for need. The year after the team goes to the Superbowl they can draft the best player available."

Couple main flaws in this argument.

1. Just because the Skins have a pronounced need on the o-line doesn't mean that's where the depth of talent is in this upcoming draft.

2. If depth is a main need, free agency might be a better route. That way you get players with a track record.

3. There's something to be said for the Belichick method, which teaches that if you draft ten players, half won't pan out. Problem is, you can't reliably predict which ones will falther, particularly outside the first couple rounds.

4. If you let need dictate your thinking, you may inadvertently 'blind' yourself to flaws in a player that in another year or situation might lead you not to draft him.

5. If you have a lot of choices in a particular year, drafting a punter is perfectly reasonable.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 30, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

We are going to need a lot of money in 2012 to resign:

Colt Brennan
Malcolm Kelly
Devin Thomas
Fred Davis
JT Tryon
Horton
Landry
Moore

The Skins should not resign Landry. In fact I would trade him for a top 15 pick in 2010. This would give the Skins 2 high first rounders in April.

Maybe they could grab big Trent Williams from the Sooners and speedster J. Best from Cal.

Best and Williams could transform this offense no matter who the QB is.

Posted by: elfreako | October 30, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

We have to burn the village to save it.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 10:31 AM

----------

Burn, baby burn.

Does this mean you would like to see Snyder's Washington Redskins not win another game all season and to see dust devils swirl amid the empty seats and parking lot of Fed Ex field?

because a large part of me does...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 30, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Schadenfreude for Snyder is becoming equal to or greater than my love for the Washington Redskins.

sad, but true...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 30, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

"2010

If yes, we are staying with the WCO then:
R1. C.J. Spiller
R2. Brian Bulaga
R4. Selvish Capers
If no then:
R1 Russell Okung
R2 Kristofer O'Dowd/Anthony Davis
R4 Adam Ulatoski/Matt Tennant
Posted by: PAskinsfan17"

Why would you draft Bulaga for a WCO but not for another scheme?

Posted by: Samson151 | October 30, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Feel free to tar and feather me for being a horrible fan.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 30, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Da blog is lifeless.

We're posting about the same ole stuff, just on different days.

Da fun is gone.

signed,
disenchanted

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 30, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I don't think so, Chia. We're all dealing with this in our own ways. It's whatever it takes to survive, now.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I like many of your suggestions
for improving the team...we need help everywhere and should use all methods available to get more playa's...I want a younger, faster bigger roster...we can lose just as easily with younger guys who are developing and perhaps building a future...i would much rather be 4-12 with some young bright spots to blog about than the same tired old overpriced over hyped nonsense we had to put up with over the last 10 yrs....and remember I am rooting for "total and final humilulation" over the last 9 games, suggest you guys get on board.....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | October 30, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

As has been often asked on RI:

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Why would you draft Bulaga for a WCO but not for another scheme?


Posted by: Samson151 | October 30, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Simple. In a WCO I think he'd be a great left tackle. In a power run Gibbs/Coryell scheme I think he'd be a better fit at right tackle. The issue is that I think there are a couple guys that would be even better at run blocking in a power run scheme than Bulaga. Also in a power run scheme I'd really like to use the second rounder on a new center. This would mean that I couldn't get a right tackle until the 4th round. Bulaga will be gone by then. I don't not like him in a power run scheme. If Davis and O'dowd are gone then I'd certainly pick Bulaga. Charles Brown is another great tackle that I think could fit either scheme. There is a lot of good depth at tackle this year. It may be lacking in elite prospects but there are a bunch of good tackles.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Leave JohnD alone, he's on a roll!

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 30, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Yep, Old School, following your lead on total and final humiliation, hitting rock bottom with such a loud thud that Snyder can't act like he didn't hear it... and Chia, yes, I'm with you on this.

I would say the stadium will be empty in December, except our opponents will be New Orleans (people who like to see football played well may be attracted by the '09 Saints), NYG and Dallas. Suffice to say I anticipate a large number of seats for those last two games to be filled with people supporting the visiting teams. Which only adds to the humiliation, of course.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else do a Halloween costume at the office this year?

Guess my costume!

...arrrr

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 30, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

In all of the blame and fault finding going on, there is one component of the team that has not been looked at!

It is YOU - The FAN!

Remember, when you point your finger at someone, 4 are pointing right back at you!

What have YOU done today to make the Redskins succesful?

Have YOU purchased over priced merchandise today?

Have YOU purchased a Redskins Virgina Lottery ticket today?

Have YOU bowed your head, endured mile plus walks to the stadium and paid $100's of dollars to watch a deformed football team, TODAY?

Have YOU written a letter to the editor of the Washington Post, complaining about how badly the owner is being treated in their fishwrap of a newspaper?

If not, you'd better get crackin'! The future of the Redskins depends on YOU!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Given the current makeup of our "playoff ready roster" and the superior coaching , gameday adjusting and motovating offensive coaching staff...not to mention our bingo card playbook...I think "total and final humilulation is well within reach....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | October 30, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Given the current makeup of our "playoff ready roster" and the superior coaching , gameday adjusting and motovating offensive coaching staff...not to mention our bingo card playbook...I think "total and final humilulation is well within reach....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | October 30, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

sorry about my double double....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | October 30, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

As for Brooks, I would never draft a punter. The ability of a punter to make it at the next level is never a guarantee.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 10:19 AM

Durant Brooks was drafted in the 6th round. Exactly which positions, drafted in the 6th round, are a "guarantee" to make it in the NFL?

Look, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to want Vinny gone. He's made too many mistakes. But punter was a position of need and Vinnie got the best one coming out of college in the 6th round. This is not unusual: every year two or three punters are drafted. The guy beat out the incumbent and stuck with the team until he got injured. After the Redskins cut him, he was added to another team's practice squad.

No one will claim this as the late-round success that Horton or Mitchell were, but there wasn't anything wrong with the pick.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Brooks punted well until he got injured.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

After week 6 of the 2008 NFL season reports surfaced that Brooks was to be replaced by a veteran due to his poor performance. His gross average of 39.6 yards and net average of 32.1 yards were last in the NFL at the time.[

Posted by: dcsportsfan1

They really ought to ban facts on this blog, right League-Source? They just get in the way of opinions.

Posted by: TheCork | October 30, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I meant to comment about Brooks; remember, didn't he look really rattled and not ready for prime time?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

The real problem is the lack of draft picks not what we drafted. Everyone is slamming Vinny for taking pass catchers and defense but the truth is that we needed them too. We weren't going to be any better by taking a bunch of 5th-7th round linemen. We needed our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders that we squandered on mediocre free agents. We just didn't have enough upper round picks. Now the question is: Is it Danny's fault for trading picks away or Vinny's fault? Did Danny tell Vinny to make the trades or did Vinny tell Danny we should make those trades?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

but we've drafted just as many of them in the past two years as we have punters. makes a lot of sense....

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 30, 2009 10:28 AM

So, what's your point in this comparison? That all our problems would have been solved if we'd taken an O lineman in the sixth round in 2008 instead of a punter?

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

R1: Russel Okung, LT, Ok. State
R2: Ryan Mallett, QB, Arkansas

I like the idea of picking up LaRon Mclain as a free agent.

Posted by: brian58 | October 30, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I meant squandered on mediocre players not free agents.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

We needed our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders that we squandered on mediocre free agents. We just didn't have enough upper round picks. Now the question is: Is it Danny's fault for trading picks away or Vinny's fault? Did Danny tell Vinny to make the trades or did Vinny tell Danny we should make those trades?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 11:49 AM

Most of those trades were on Joe Gibbs. Vinny traded away the two for Jason Taylor.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Most of those trades were on Joe Gibbs. Vinny traded away the two for Jason Taylor.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

O yeah, Gibbs never understood the value of draft picks. That's why I don't want him to come back. Who did the Pete Kendall trade?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

so what do we do about qb next year? i can't see the point of resigning jc. tc is too old. a rookie will get killed. my vote is to go with the rookie and tough it out. mallett makes sense, he could take a beating behind this o-line.

Posted by: brian58 | October 30, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

They really ought to ban facts on this blog, right League-Source? They just get in the way of opinions.

Posted by: TheCork | October 30, 2009 11:44 AM

I'm all in favor of facts. You can make your case every time when you compare the average for an injured punter to the average for healthy punters. And 'Skins learned a lesson: when your punter gets injured, bring in a sub -- don't stick him out there and make him play hurt. Unfortunately the sub they picked -- Pakulak -- has had a 38.3 average, worse than Brooks.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

They really ought to ban facts on this blog, right League-Source? They just get in the way of opinions.

Posted by: TheCork | October 30, 2009 11:44 AM

I'm all in favor of facts. You can make your case every time when you compare the average for an injured punter to the average for healthy punters. And 'Skins learned a lesson: when your punter gets injured, bring in a sub -- don't stick him out there and make him play hurt. Unfortunately the sub they picked -- Pakulak -- has had a 38.3 average, worse than Brooks.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

remember, didn't he look really rattled and not ready for prime time?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 11:48 AM

Yeah, a first for a rookie in the NFL.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

League, Brooks sucked, period. He was cut because he couldn't do the job; it had little to do with injury.

If I remember correctly, he shanked at least 2 or 3 punts in the first few games, and did not look ready for the NFL.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

No guesses? Not a one? Geez... I thot it was clever, too.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 30, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Moves I would make during the bye.
1. Devin Thomas to punt returner.
2. Levi Jones LT and Bench Heyer or move to RG.
3. Teach Landry to tackle instead of trying to make big hits.

Posted by: Redskins001 | October 30, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Colt will be ready next year.......

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | October 30, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Moves I would make during the bye.
1. Devin Thomas to punt returner.
2. Levi Jones LT and Bench Heyer or move to RG.
3. Teach Landry to tackle instead of trying to make big hits.

Posted by: Redskins001 | October 30, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

1. DT11 to kick and punt returns
2. Jones to left tackle, if anyone is going to RG is BMW and Heyer back to RT
3. Todd Collins at QB

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 30, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

i forgot about colt. i would be fine with him for one year. we know what campbell has (not much) and we need the picks for the line.

i like the idea of Heyer or BMW at RG. Levi could be a fine RT or LT if need be.

Posted by: brian58 | October 30, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

3. Teach Landry to tackle instead of trying to make big hits.

Posted by: Redskins001 | October 30, 2009 12:12 PM

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

League-Source,
You may not see anything wrong with drafting a punter, but I would never do it. Kicker and punter are the two positions where I think a team is actually better off to pick up a free agent. I admit the strategy works for some teams, but I am saying there are punters and kickers to be found elsewhere, so why gamble a pick? Let someone else take that risk.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

You can lead a horse to water, but what good is a we horse?

..maps...

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 30, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Keep everyone but Vinny and rebuild the O-line deep and strong; and we will be respectable and could be a deep playoff team

If JC had time to throw and was not worried about the world caving in on him in 1.9 seconds he could be the QB he was this time last year.

If RBs had a place to run they would be breaking more big ones.

Portis and Cambell may not be Walter Peyton and Tom Brady but knock some opponents on the azzes and they will make enough plays and get thier swagger back.

Posted by: p_vano | October 30, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

League-Source,
Your passionate defense of punter Durant Brooks, and the decision to use a draft pick on him, is the reason I read these comments. Thank you and keep up the good work!

Posted by: mack1 | October 30, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

You may not see anything wrong with drafting a punter, but I would never do it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 12:22 PM

I know. You said this above. Plenty of GM's disagree with you -- two or three get drafted every year.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

vano- even when JC17 had the good QB rating, he was not lighting up the league.

It wasn't just the O Line collapsing that led to the decline in the 2nd half. It was also the leagues getting 8 games of Redskins game footage!

Once our simple schemes were disected, this team had nothing left. And they had no other plan to operate. At all. This staff is not that dynamic.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 30, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Samson151 wrote:
Couple main flaws in this argument.

1. Just because the Skins have a pronounced need on the o-line doesn't mean that's where the depth of talent is in this upcoming draft.

2. If depth is a main need, free agency might be a better route. That way you get players with a track record.

3. There's something to be said for the Belichick method, which teaches that if you draft ten players, half won't pan out. Problem is, you can't reliably predict which ones will falther, particularly outside the first couple rounds.

4. If you let need dictate your thinking, you may inadvertently 'blind' yourself to flaws in a player that in another year or situation might lead you not to draft him.

5. If you have a lot of choices in a particular year, drafting a punter is perfectly reasonable.

-------------------------------------------

1. I am suggesting they trade down if at all possible, but if not possible, then grab the player at the position of need. I know that sounds outrageous, but is it any more outrageous than drafting three receivers in round #2? If they are worried about overpaying because of where the guy is drafted, they can elect to not pick in their slot and slide down the draft board.

2. As far as free agency, the team might expect to get a guy or two, but this doesn't plug all of the holes; plus, it seems like the Redskins have a knack for signing the free agent that reached his prime yesterday. Age is key in signing free agents, and realistically, most teams won't let go of a good, young player. The market ends up being filled up with thirty something's with their best days behind them.

3. You take a gamble any time you draft a player, but offensive linemen are more of sure thing than picking for any other position. I think "quantity of picks" over "draft position" only makes sense when you have a coaching staff that can develop players and a scheme that supports players with a limited skill set. That doesn't mesh with the current brain trust.

4. Need is not going to blind you any more than "best player available". The problem with BPA is everyone has a different opinion and it is too easy for the scouts to let their judgement get clouded by pet players. It's the difference between me asking you who the best player in the NFL is versus asking you who the best left offensive tackle might be.

5. I agree that some teams have been successful with drafting punters. I am just saying I would never do it. I don't know if there are any statistics on punters staying with the team that drafted them, but I would bet there are very few punters that actually made the team that drafted them. I wouldn't take the risk.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Philadelphia double- or triple-teamed him on 21 of 42 snaps.

For those who think that AH isn't earning his money...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 8:58 AM |

You're blind as batshti.

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

ZEKE'S UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES
again brought to you by the fine people at Yahoo!

This week's topic is Chris Samuels.

When fans take pride in a team, its because of players like Chris Samuels. Whether he retires or returns to the field, this seems like a good time to forget DEBACLE '09 for a few moments and pay tribute.

Samuels has done what the best and bravest do -- he took on the other team's biggest and strongest defenders, week in, week out, mano-a-mano, without much help. He was a regular at the Pro Bowl. On top of it, he has always been a class act.

Many great players struggle to come to grips with the end of their career. I hope Samuels makes the best choice for him.

Speculation on Samuels' worthiness for the HOF has begun. He certainly deserves to be in the discussion, though I doubt think he makes it in. Whether the powers that determine who gets into Canton favor him or not, there are few people who've played the LT position in NFL history that are in the same category as Chris Samuels.

Redskins fans have always been blue collar bunch. Our most admired legends are grunt, not glitz. Art Monk was a tough physical receiver, John Riggins was a bulldozer, Larry Brown a battler. More than any other franchise, Redskins fans appreciate their offensive linemen. We still speak with reverence of the legendary trade, over 20 years ago, where we gave up a potential star QB and got a great left tackle.

In old DC, the names of our offensive linemen names are as hallowed as much as any quarterback. Names like Hauss, Jacoby, Grimm, Lachey and Samuels.

In part, it is this link to our history that endears us to Chris Samuels. And in part, it is the man himself. His attitude, his play and the way he carried himself are the essence of dignity.

I know my perspective is hardly unique this week. Whether or not he returns to the playing field, Hail to Chris Samuels.

And that is a wrap for this week's ZEKE'S UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES, as always, brought to you by the fine people at Yahoo!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a Randle El fan but, Jason, you're incorrect in saying he couldn't hold onto the punt vs Carolina. It never got to him because Westbrook made the mistake of trying to block the defender and had the ball glance off of his foot. Randle El's mistake on that play was in not calling Westbrook off the ball.

Posted by: SkinsFanNYC | October 30, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

big, that was from the Washington Times article...so have at it....seems like they might have researched that piece of information....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Ah Greg, even if it WAS from the Times, you're probably still blind as bathsit. You just read the Braille version.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I don't know who this Bye team is but the Skins are favored by 3.5 on Sunday, I will take the Bye team with the points. Weare the only team that can lose to the Bye

Posted by: connskins | October 30, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

FF Update

Life in the Peeps league was filled with thrills and spills -- and a touch of agony

At the top of the food chain sits Redcoat's mighty Fins (6-1), victors in a stirring match over Alex's Zombie Hord (4-3). Both teams had 3 players go over 20 points in their game. The final score was stunning, 145-126. About the only thing uninspired about the game was the smack talk. Still, Alex must have felt some agony, posting the week's second highest point total, only to lose.

Once again, the Dunsmores came out on top. Ryan's Buffaloes (5-2) topped Nate (2-5) by a final of 73-70, when Nate got only 3 points from his two Monday night slots, westbrook and the Skins defense. Talk about agony!

John's Jackalopes (5-2) posted a 97-84 win over Future Winners (3-4), despite 50 from Winner's combo of Brady and Ricky Williams.

Tampa (4-3) resumed winning ways with a 100-63 win over Shaft (2-5) behind strong efforts from Thomas Jones and Rivers.

Yet another agonizing loss came to my Futaleufu (4-3) team. The Futa fell 97-96 to 4-12 (3-4). Nearly overcoming 5 bye slots and miles austin's huge 31 point game might seem exciting. But it was the most mundane play of all that proved the difference -- John Carney's missed extra point snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Or something like that

Lastly and leastly, at least so far this season, the Steers (2-5) topped the Skulls (2-5) as Skulls played 3 bye week players. Not much chance when you do that. The final was 70-46.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Life in the FF Hamsters league was like going for a spin.

Upside down went Suzanne and her Trippin Billies (6-1) for her first loss. cL's F Bombers (3-4) posted an impressive 137-94 win, sealing up the win even before desean jackson posted 32 on Monday Night. Still, the Billies remain all alone in 1st place.

The 92-43 win by Realskins over dealer left both teams at 4-3. Realskins got 61 points from Palmer and Ricky Williams.

It wasn't over til its was over in E Funk's 83-81 win over Chinos (2-5). Funk's (4-3) trailed by 14 points heading into Monday Night, but akers and Santana Moss got him 16, enough for the W.

Zornskins (4-3) threw his throwing cowpukes at Copro (3-4) and won 120-87, with austin and romo combining for 62.

Butz (1-6) fell to the Koolaid Kids (2-5), 113-42. Kid had 5 players score between 17 and 23 points.

Finally, my Salmon (5-2) team stopped Stweengs (4-3) by a final of 132-67. 3 20+ point efforts led the runaway win.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

can someone help me find my white cane....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

""The 2010 draft is supposed to be QB rich, not so with OL."

IMO not the case.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 29, 2009 3:45 PM |

=========================================

1. Just because the Skins have a pronounced need on the o-line doesn't mean that's where the depth of talent is in this upcoming draft.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 30, 2009 11:06 AM |

Make up your mind d1ckhead.

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas was a return specialist at Michigan State. Broke all the records. But of course unlike every other team in the league they refuse to let him start returning punts in the league until he has proven himself. Only problem is... you can't prove yourself without the opprotunity. Our management is a joke.

Posted by: DemandChange | October 30, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Greg, I believe you can, in fact, use your bonus points for a white cane. They even have service dogs in the catalog.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Chriss LaRRy in risk of missing the playoffs. Looks like the last week match up between me and you will decide your fate.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 30, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Greg, I believe you can, in fact, use your bonus points for a white cane. They even have service dogs in the catalog.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 1:08 PM |

This is very insensitive. Blind people can't read the catalog. Of course, they can't read your post, either.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

big, that was from the Washington Times article...so have at it....seems like they might have researched that piece of information....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 12:53 PM |

Dunno about that. I made a special point to check the dude out and when he lined up on the right side of the DL, Petey pretty much shut him down all by himself. I expect that Petey is headed to the PB. Dunno about AH.

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

This is very insensitive. Blind people can't read the catalog. Of course, they can't read your post, either.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 1:14 PM |

It's written in braille. Haille!

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

take it up with the times, pretty sure they might have researched it prior to putting it into print....wow...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

take it up with the times, pretty sure they might have researched it prior to putting it into print....wow...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 1:22 PM |

Are you kidding?

Times = Fox News

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Of all the problems with this team, AH ranks right around number 281, just behind "4thFloor is a bama."

Lots of issues here...AH ain't one of 'em.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 30, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Lots of issues here...AH ain't one of 'em.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 30, 2009 1:25 PM |

Mebbe not. But if you shelled out $41 M for the dude expecting to see chaos and disruption then there might just be a pang or two of buyer's remorse gnawing at your insides.

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Of all the problems with this team, AH ranks right around number 281, just behind "4thFloor is a bama."

Lots of issues here...AH ain't one of 'em.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 30, 2009 1:25 PM

Has it been conclusively established that 4th Floor is a bama? I thought there was still some controversy about this, sort of like when we didn't re-sign Antonio Pierce, which is problem 138, except to Beantowngreg.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

4th, I think, even admits to being a Bama.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Can we get some more insight/an update into/on what may be happening with the NFL lockout or strike in 2011.

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't some method in the madness that now surrounds this team, at least from the owner's perspective.

Posted by: Xlnt | October 30, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

4th, I think, even admits to being a Bama.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 1:34 PM

I guess I haven't been paying careful enough attention. I thought RedDMV admitted to being a bama and Beantowngreg admitted to being a Yankees fan. Or maybe that was MistaMoe who said he was a bama and a Yankees fan. Chris Larry admits to being a Wizards fan and a Caps fan. No one admits to being a Nationals fan and the few who admit to being a 'Skins fan all do so with an explanation.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Mebbe not. But if you shelled out $41 M for the dude expecting to see chaos and disruption then there might just be a pang or two of buyer's remorse gnawing at your insides.

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 1:28 PM |

All you need to know about AH is are Defensive sacks are way up and the Titans ends can't get a sack.

AH is a great player you don't see the effect he has, but the double and triple teams help the other guys.

You didn't see any one guy block AH get your eyes checked.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 30, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

You know, League, I think you may have nailed that down. We've got a Wiki for RI, if you'd like to update!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

FedorEm,

I'll buy your idea (and reasoning) "We all know that OL are usually safe, start now, picks." IF you add the following condition to it.

IF you trade AWAY from and avoid drafting "big hype" 1st and 2nd round picks and gather more 3rd-6th rounder picks to acquire new and better guys. Avoid the "big splash" draft theory

Examples of the big splash drafting theory:

Robert Gallery-OAK, Tony Mandarich-GB/IND, Aaron Gibson-DET/DAL/CHI, and Trezell Jenkins-KC/NO/MIN ring a bell?

How about a little closer to home...Andre Johnson-WAS/MIA/DET, anyone?

So big billing does NOT always equal big play.

The best recipe to build an O-line from scratch is:

Get a high volume of HUNGRY (to play, not just to eat), blue chip O-line prospects that are more likely to yield you 2-3 good starters than betting the farm on one or two highly ranked, mega hyped prospects.

You do that by stockpiling draft picks so you can bring in a cartload of candidates to work through. then you get to use the OTAs and Training Camp as your own little "Offensive Line Idol" competition.

Sadly the BEST preperation to get to that point is to dump a couple of players that still have some good trade value (even if it HURTS because they are good and we love them), to build a better foundation going forward.

This list would include (as post- this season trade candidates):

FB-Mike Sellers
TE-Chris Cooley
S-LaRon Landry
WR-Antwaan Randle-El
DT-Anthony Montgomery
WR-Devin Thomas

I know some of these names will get the venom flowing, but if we only try to trade our turds, we're only gonna get other turds in return.

To get picks and/or players of value some of THOSE guys are going to have to be in the mix.

If getting rid of Cooley [who I'd HATE to see go] and/or Landry [eh, easy come easy go] got us 4-5 picks in return (2-3 picks for each/either guy) that's a deal you HAVE to make if you want to get better a long the o-line and as a team, more quickly.

Send LeRon Landry to Cleveland with say Anthony Montgomery for Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn and a low round pick in return...Hell, throw in the restricted rights to Campbell (if that's legit), and get two low round picks.

Send Sellers to a contender to protect their RB and get a 5th or 6th and a 7th. or a 4th or 5th in a later year's draft.

It's all about numbers and the future, for now.

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 30, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Why is Chris Samuels not on IR yet? Why haven't they signed another player for the OL that can help going forward?

Posted by: TWISI | October 30, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

From the Reid chat:

"After impressing in training camp and the preseason, Malcolm lost the starting flanker job because Coach Jim Zorn was not pleased with his route running. I've made it clear that I believe most of the Redskins' problems are not Zorn's fault, but I don't understand what he's doing with Kelly. The reality is Kelly wasn't a great route runner in college at Oklahoma and the Redskins knew that. Or at least they should have"

Mark this as Reason Number whatever as to why JZ has to go. Stubborn, for no reason other than to be stubborn. If positions are up for grabs, and judging by DT jumping into the starting lineup, then shouldn't more guys be losing their starting jobs....get this clown outta here...he's once again, NOT PROPERLY utilizing Kelly. Get him running slants where he can shield the defender with his body....just stupid...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 30, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Why is Chris Samuels not on IR yet? Why haven't they signed another player for the OL that can help going forward?

Posted by: TWISI

Because VInny has had early tee times all week and he hasn't been able to squeeze in other tasks that are less important.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Why is Chris Samuels not on IR yet? Why haven't they signed another player for the OL that can help going forward?

Posted by: TWISI | October 30, 2009 1:49 PM

What's your theory? Given that they team is on vacation and not practicing, I'm not sure what they'd do with the guy. Maybe if they wait until after Sunday they save a paycheck?

Or, maybe they're going to bring Durant Brooks back to prove the Johndinhouston doesn't know a good punter from a bad brisket.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Send LeRon Landry to Cleveland with say Anthony Montgomery for Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn and a low round pick in return...Hell, throw in the restricted rights to Campbell (if that's legit), and get two low round picks.

Send Sellers to a contender to protect their RB and get a 5th or 6th and a 7th. or a 4th or 5th in a later year's draft.

Posted by: ThinkingMan

So trade a guy we took #6 overall and a young DT for either of two awful QBs and a low-round pick? Umm, no thanks.

And no chance we would get that much value out of Sellers.


Posted by: Rypien11 | October 30, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

What's your theory? Given that they team is on vacation and not practicing, I'm not sure what they'd do with the guy. Maybe if they wait until after Sunday they save a paycheck?

Or, maybe they're going to bring Durant Brooks back to prove the Johndinhouston doesn't know a good punter from a bad brisket.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 1:55 PM

I'd think the player would get an extra week to study the playbook and get acclimated to this area.

Posted by: TWISI | October 30, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Not even one guess.

I'm a pirate!

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 30, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Hey Gang...just wear shirts that have your anti-Snyder message on BOTH sides, that way when you turn it inside out you can fiegn surprise and just laugh :)

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 30, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Ah, Dik, I forgot to guess!

_______________________________________

Or, maybe they're going to bring Durant Brooks back to prove the Johndinhouston doesn't know a good punter from a bad brisket.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps this would be true; by the time he comes back he will have gone through the trial of fire that most punters and kickers have to before they are NFL ready, proving why kickers and punters are not usually drafted.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Why is Chris Samuels not on IR yet? Why haven't they signed another player for the OL that can help going forward?

Posted by: TWISI | October 30, 2009 1:49 PM

They just haven't found a 6th running back they like enough...give them time.

Posted by: Moose33 | October 30, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

but we've drafted just as many of them in the past two years as we have punters. makes a lot of sense....

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 30, 2009 10:28 AM

So, what's your point in this comparison? That all our problems would have been solved if we'd taken an O lineman in the sixth round in 2008 instead of a punter?

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

my point is is that the team NEEDS o lineman. even if durant brooks was the next ray guy, would it have been worth the pick given the other needs of this team? i say no. we could have gotten a perfectly good punter as a free agent (like we have now) and used the pick for some depth on the o line. would ALL of their problems been solved by drafting an o lineman, no. but considering the lack of depth at that position, it would have been a good step. as horton and mitchell prove, there is value in these rounds..

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 30, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

JohnDinHouston -- the same "trial of fire" that produces a great brisket.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

even if durant brooks was the next ray guy, would it have been worth the pick given the other needs of this team? i say no.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 30, 2009 2:09 PM

Ray Guy? You bet.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

well, brooks was the Ray Guy Award winner, so that's something there (for the record, I didn't think it was a bad pick; if you've got a spare draft choice, the Ray Guy award winner isn't a bad way to go)

And League, I would say, you know my brisket, because I'm still in the "trial by fire" stage in cooking them!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Is it time to drink yet

Posted by: CheyenneWY | October 30, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

All you need to know about AH is are Defensive sacks are way up and the Titans ends can't get a sack.

AH is a great player you don't see the effect he has, but the double and triple teams help the other guys.

You didn't see any one guy block AH get your eyes checked.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 30, 2009 1:42 PM |

After last season peeps said that the Skins had a D in 2008 that stat-wise was 4th ranked but no one was fooled by this sham. We all knew that there were very few turnovers. So when the Skins signed AH peeps said that we were going to get a lot more turnovers with the chaos and disruption that he would create. Are turnovers up this seaon? No. We are worse. The Skins are ranked dead last in takeaways per game. And although snacks are up that is prexactly what you would expect when most of your opponents have been cupcakes. Get it? The Skins have been snacking on cupcakes. Hah!

Get your brain checked pal.

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Is it time to drink yet

Posted by: CheyenneWY | October 30, 2009 2:21 PM

If you have to ask this crowd, there's no hope for you. We can't agree on anything except Sean Taylor.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 30, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse


I think I disagree with almost everything you said. First round offensive tackles have about the best track record as far as bust are concerned. Taking guys like Mandarich and Gallery to prove your point is bad. Gallery was damned near pro bowl caliber at guard last year and mandarich had a nice comeback with the Colts. Go back and look at the last 5-6 drafts. First round offensive tackles offer incredible value compared to other positions. They get paid less and can be moved to guard if they bust. Guards are often taken in the 3rd and 4th rounds with great results as well. I think the best course of action is to take a couple early round tackles and a 4th round center. I am also against trading away players under 30 and that will still be under 30 3 years from now. The team has some good young players. We are not in need of a total rebuild. I think the team can be turned around inside of 2 drafts without purging our young talent. I say leave the defense alone. It's fine and will be fine for years to come with the exception of London Fletcher. I think with 2 great tackles, center, RB, and QB this team is a contender again. That is all completely feasible within the next 2 drafts.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 30, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Why are we waisting text debating Durant Brooks?

How about drafting Cody Brown over Duke Robinson, Herman Johnson, Andrew Gardner or Fenuki Tupou?

There's some brilliant drafting for you!

Posted by: edvar | October 30, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

... if we only try to trade our turds, we're only gonna get other turds in return ...

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 30, 2009 1:49 PM |

Some GM like Vinny should have someone stitch this on a needlepoint sampler and hang it in his office, sort of like hanging "Home Sweet Home" in your living room.

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

"even if durant brooks was the next ray guy, would it have been worth the pick given the other needs of this team? i say no.Posted by: dcsportsfan1"

I think you greatly underestimate the importance of a punter -- especially to a team that relies heavily on its defense.

Ray Guy? I'd be more than happy with the next Sean Landeta.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 30, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

How about drafting Cody Brown over Duke Robinson, Herman Johnson, Andrew Gardner or Fenuki Tupou?

There's some brilliant drafting for you!

Posted by: edvar | October 30, 2009 2:39 PM |

How about Couldhe Brownhispants over Nooky Shtupyou?

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Whether it's by FA or the draft, it's essential to be able to evaluate talent. Judging by Snyderato's record, they don't seem very good at it. The percentage of FA busts is lower than the percentage of draft busts, but costs a lot more money. (Let's not even think about the % of coahing busts.) Until the Skins learn how to evaluate talent, I don't think draft vs. FA matters much.

Posted by: pyrotech | October 30, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

And although snacks are up that is exactly what you would expect when most of your opponents have been cupcakes. Get it? The Skins have been snacking on cupcakes. Hah!

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009

Nevertheless, as I at least expected, Andre Carter is having a break out year. With Haynesworth and Orapko rushing from one side they aren't going be able to double team Carter. The dearth of sacks was evident whether they played cupcakes or not last year.
To improve the turnover ration you have to have a stellar defensive backfield first. The Skins do not have now. They came pretty close when they had Springs, Rogers, Taylor and Landry. Rogers is now waiting for his ticket out. Certainly Landry must be thinking along the same lines. Hall is no Taylor, and is certainly is not a Champ Bailey or a Sean Taylor

Posted by: periculum | October 30, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

If this team only had Leigh Torrence, Anthony Alridge and Durant Brooks it would be on its way to the Super Bowl!

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

awesome Redskin Fan article about Dan Snyder

http://www.playerpress.com/articles/dan-snyder-what-have-you-done

Posted by: CaptnBingo | October 30, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

"So trade a guy we took #6 overall and a young DT for either of two awful QBs and a low-round pick? Umm, no thanks.

And no chance we would get that much value out of Sellers.

Posted by: Rypien11 | October 30, 2009 1:58 PM"

Yes, because compared to get NOTHING for Landry, that is a good value...no?

Landry was a wasted pick. He is overrrated and he under performs.

Doughty is a better all around Safety, and Horton is more field aware and around the ball more...both were far lower picks, and cost much less.

Not saying either is Ronnie Lott II, just that either is as good or better than Landry...for LOTS less $$$, and with less baggage than LaRon "the human late hit penalty" Landry.

Again...you don't play someone just because you picked them highly or paid them a lot...well, not IF you want to win.

Don't be a Vinny-head...

I'm sorry , I didn't mean to be so mean :)

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 30, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

LaRon "the human late hit penalty" Landry.

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 30, 2009 3:18 PM

You know, his late hits are inhuman. They're dirty, savage and vicious. And other than late hits, he has few hits at all.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I'm way wrong. Landry has 34 tackles, second only to London Fletcher (40) and just barely ahead of Doughty (32). Apologies to Dirty 30.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

One of the rumors was that Jerry Gray would become interim HC if Zorn got axed.

My question is why?

The secondary is the biggest underachieving part of this team. The only DB I've seen play at his talent level is Doughty and the only one that seems to have improved from last year is Tryon.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"even if durant brooks was the next ray guy, would it have been worth the pick given the other needs of this team? i say no.Posted by: dcsportsfan1"

I think you greatly underestimate the importance of a punter -- especially to a team that relies heavily on its defense.

Ray Guy? I'd be more than happy with the next Sean Landeta.


Posted by: Samson151 | October 30, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

no, i just value offensive linemen more. if we were set at those positions, i'd be more than happy to take a flyer on a punter. but at the time it was not such a critical need. frost averaged 41 yds a kick in his last year here. i'd gladly give up 2 yrds per punt on average for the potential to have some depth on the o line or other area of need.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | October 30, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

LaRon is nowhere near as bad as his recent play has suggested. The guy is a spectacular athlete. There is no safety on this team and very few in the league that cover the ground this guy covers. It is just that somewhere along the way he became this undisciplined free lancer. I don't know if you pin this one on scheme, coaching or what's cooking in Landry's head, but there was a big step down this season from last season.

I disagree that either Horton or Doughty can cover deep as well as Landry. For starters, they are slower than him. For another, I have seen them beat badly in pass coverage and consequently resorting to pass interference to keep their man from making an embarassing reception.

Maybe this is LaRon's way of telling the team he would rather play strong safety. With Doughty doing such a good job up there, the team is in no hurry to make a switch. Blache relies on Landry to play sideline to sideline and neither Doughty nor Horton can do that. Whatever the case, I think what LaRon has is not catching, and I think he can be cured with a little more coaching. Trading him would be a big mistake.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

The secondary is the biggest underachieving part of this team. The only DB I've seen play at his talent level is Doughty and the only one that seems to have improved from last year is Tryon.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 3:30 PM

If you have to promote from within, you don't have much to choose from, do you? I don't see how you can single out "biggest underachievers" from this bunch. And making a respectable player of Tryon after his start last year might get you nominated for a Nobel Prize for Coaching.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Ah, F Dallas....

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 30, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

JohnD motions to F Dallas.

All in favor?

Posted by: freakzilla | October 30, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

JohnD motions to F Dallas.

All in favor?

Posted by: freakzilla | October 30, 2009 3:50 PM

What's wrong with ChrIs LaRRy? He on vacation or something?

I'm starting to think the FO is a bigger enemy than Dallas. Dallas can only beat us two games a year. The FO can rip us 16 times a year plus a couple of times in the off season.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

I think you nailed that one League...

Posted by: edvar | October 30, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Skimming over comments League Source was sorta costing, relying on cliches, dumb jokes and his sorta fall back comments...then the 3:57 post popped up. High quality stuff. Carry on!

Posted by: chrislarry | October 30, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

If ARE is replaced on the punt return team than what are bye weeks even for? Its an absolute no brainer....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 30, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Um, I mean If ARE is NOT replaced....carry on...is this thing on (tap tap)

Posted by: chrislarry | October 30, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Skimming over comments League Source was sorta costing, relying on cliches, dumb jokes and his sorta fall back comments

Posted by: chrislarry | October 30, 2009 4:15 PM

F ChrIs LarRy and the brisket he rode in on.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

All in favor?

Posted by: freakzilla | October 30, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Aye!!!

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 30, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

You always only see the negative LS....yum brisket....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 30, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

A little Horseradish cream...

And AYE.

Posted by: edvar | October 30, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

If ARE is replaced on the punt return team than what are bye weeks even for? Its an absolute no brainer....

Posted by: chrislarry

CL, according to Zorn (earlier this week) he does not plan to take ARE off of punt returns. It's simply baffling! Last season he claimed that ARE protects the ball and that is why he was the punt returner - but ARE keeps fumbling the ball so that rationale is no longer valid (it was not valid to start with).

Zorn plans to let Santana "work in" punts with ARE.

Posted by: Lisa_R | October 30, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

You always only see the negative LS....yum brisket....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 30, 2009 4:33 PM

You say that as if there is ever any positive. (Aside from the brisket, of course).

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan17

Disagree away, but HISTORICALLY (not just one, two, or five years of anamolies that suit your argument---as you allege I did) [and PLEASE go back and look at how many 1st and 2nd rounders started more quickly than lower round drafted o-linemen...you'll be stunned. I was.] most O-linemen that REALLY work out long term take 2-3 years to get from draft to "go time" starter mode.

Many times, even if they DO work out, it is NOT with their first team that they become servicable to good...even by your own "mandarich had a nice comeback with the Colts" defense", no?

Not trying to attack, just asking you to look at a bigger slice of the pie than you might have at 1st.

[Also, I think Gallery might be a much better fit here or in Denver than he is in OAK-town]

League Source, Just mostly thinking aloud here...but feel free to chime in.

How is it Landry is SOOOOO brutally efficient at driving opposing players to the ground OUTSIDE the giant thick white line bordering the field...yet so poor at getting them to the ground AT ALL within it?

Happy Halloween (tomorrow) folks, in case I forget before then.

Keep an eye out for kids if you're out tomorrow night...they sure aren't going to be looking for you. :)

time to hit the beltway traffic, now.

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 30, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Changes I'd make

1. New punt returner (duh)

2. Orakpo to DE with a rotation of Jarmon, Orakpo and Carter. I thought the LB experiment was worth trying, I think we have an answer.

3. Campbell needs time. Shotgun 40 times per game with Sellers or Yoder as blocking back. They are big enough to block LBs or DL guys that beat their initial block. Buys a bit more time.

4. Move Campbell. From shotgun, drop back and roll 2 steps to one side or the other. Gibbs did this a lot with Rypien (waggle if I recall). Buys a little more time since d-linemen don't know where the QB is going to be. Campbell's arm is strong enough so a deep drop isn't a big issue.

5. Rethink the secondary. Doughty is the only overachiever in the bunch. Seems like its been less than the sum of its parts.

6. SLB, Robert Henson. See what the rookie can do other than mis-tweet. Either that or move LL to SLB.

7. Either get another vet OL or see what Rinehart can do. Let the kid sink or swim -- now is the time to determine if he's got shot or is a bust.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Can't split w/o a Halloween themed posting for periculum, him of the halloweiner. If you open the door to TOTers, which mask would scare you the most?

1. Dan Snyder. Dude has kind of an angelic look with chubby cheeks and chubby checks but he has inflicted more hurt and pain on the franchise than Jason from Fri 13th could wielding his extra heavy, extra sharp meat cleaver.

2. Vinny Cerrato. This guy has done his share of damage also but he looks too goofy to scare anyone.

3. Jim Zorn. Z may not be the chief instigator but if you put a couple of horns on his head and give him pointed ears he would look just like the devil. Horny Zorny. Heh, heh.

4. Jason Campbell. This guy could scare you too but it would be a second order effect. When you see that scared haunted look in his eyes you think goblins and ghosts are after him and you run like hell.

Have a safe happy Halloween.

Posted by: BiggerVance | October 30, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Starting Defense

___________99__64__92__98_________

23_____30________59________52_______22__

___________41_________37___________

Posted by: noonefromtampa | October 30, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

that's BS saying 82 has fumbled 2 punts. Westbrook muffed 1 and 82 muffed 1. At least get the facts straight Barry.

You writers are sucking it up as bad as the skins are, do your job! You criticize the players and coaches without any real football expertise of your own and you don't even write factual objective articles. You suck!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 30, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

noone from Tampa if that was the starting D don't you think teams' would run right and run right through 99, 30, & 41? 23 won't help much either. Only as strong as the weakest point, plus Orakpo would be worn out by third down if they ever made it that far.

Ken Harvey was converted, larry English was converted

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 30, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Cheyenne, aren't you buried in snow out there? You shoulda started drinking long ago.

Maybe we should send a Saint Bernard with one of those little casks?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 30, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

czest, clearly you haven't watched sellers in pass protection this season, if you think getting run over like your not even there will buy more time, then ok. Portis is our best pass protector at RB, despite size. Betts and mason have sucked at pass blocking too. Yoder would probably be decent, rock would b better than betts or sellars

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 30, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Ken Harvey was converted, larry English was converted

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 30, 2009 6:01 PM


Cassius Clay, Lew Alcindor, Cat Stevens...

Posted by: freakzilla | October 30, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

does anyone remember when that eagle tackled Betts about 5 yards out of bounds and there was a flag and then the flag was picked up? Does anyone have an explanation for this other than they rig calls when they have an opportunity?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 30, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

czest, clearly you haven't watched sellers in pass protection this season, if you think getting run over like your not even there will buy more time, then ok. Portis is our best pass protector at RB, despite size. Betts and mason have sucked at pass blocking too. Yoder would probably be decent, rock would b better than betts or sellars

Posted by: pabrian2003

sort of ... Sellers is rarely in on shotgun so I'm not sure how that plays out. As I indicated, try both Yoder and Sellers out as the pass protector. Both guys are big enough and capable to deal with DL and LBs. Whoever plays better gets to play more. If neither guy works, use Rinehart. Bottom line, 6 blockers with Campbell in the shotgun.

Portis can block remarkably well for a guy his size, but he can't be expected to pick up guys 80 lbs heavier than he is ... play after play.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

As for Tampa's defense, its worth considering. LL is better close to the line and can cover TEs. Carter, Jarmon and Daniels can all play LDE, so its not obvious that you can run that way.

Doughty would be behind Landry on the strong side, and he's an effective tackler for a safety.

That defense would be strong in the middle (Albert, Fletcher) and very fast along the edges.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | October 30, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Randle El also caught a punt at the four yard line, and then returns it to the 15, not that it would have made a difference.

Earlier in the game a punt barely misses
Doughty by inches? I just think it's bad coaching.


Posted by: ccwbambam | October 30, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Food for thought.

Earlier this week, Vinny indicated that he had a roster with playoff talent.

He has a point. This is a talented, underachieving roster. This team should have at least 4 wins at this point and more like 5 or 6. This team has vastly more talent than Carolina, Detroit and KC.

At least one report I read up here suggests that the Spaghetti Gang is blaming Zorn for not having this team on the right track. I agree with that. Zorn has absolutely underachieved as a coach. He's been awful, on several fronts. Losing to good teams is one thing. Losing to very bad teams is another.

OL injuries are not the reason we are 2-5.

OL injuries are the reason we'd struggle the rest of the way.

Everyone knew the OL was highly vulnerable. With the unsurprising injuries to Samuels and R Thomas, we'd be looking at relatively few wins the rest of the way with this personnel group, even with a good coach.

Bottom line is that Vinny is correct when he blames the coach for underachieving so far this year. But the rest of this season was going to be very difficult because of the personnel issues on the OL, and that is squarely on the front office. Another thing that is squarely on the front office -- they hired the inept coach.

If Zorn was the problem, then get rid of him at 2-2 or 2-3. Instead, the front office allowed the season to turn into DEBACLE '09 ®. Which is a third issue. If you've got the wrong guy for the job, make the change -- not a stupid commitment to stay the course.

Vinny correctly points a finger at Zorn, but when he does, he is also pointing it at himself.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Another thing I would do is change the team's pregame warmups, at least on the offense.

Four times in 7 games, the Skins failed to get a first down on the opening drive. Twice it was 3 & out, twice they turned it over within the first 3 plays. A fifth game they netted 16 yards before punting. In those 5 games, its 2 turnovers and just 1 first down on opening drives.

The only game where they scored on the opening possession was Carolina, when they only had 13 yards to go.

The other opening possession came vs Detroit. They went 75 yards before getting stopped at the goal line. It's worth noting that Campbell was sacked on the opening play of the drive, creating a 2nd and 17. The next play was a face mask penalty against the Lions, enabling the Skins to get a 1st down and prevent a likely 3 and out.

Bottom line, the Skins' offense needs to revamp how they warm up.

Below are the results of each opening drive.

jints: -1 yard
Rams: 9 yards
Det: 75 yards, Sack on 1st play, face mask penalty got the 1st down
Tampa: 0 yards/turnover
Carolina: 13yards/TD
KC: 9 yards/turnover
philly: 16 yards

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1,
Very good points - all. I think we might do ourselves favors as fans if we begin to look at the decision making in the front office, and the play-calling on the field, as never following the mandates of logic. We expect things to follow logic and we are continuously disappointed. It's not logical for the team to keep using ARE as a punt returner when he is ineffective. It's not logical for a team to ignore the lack of depth on the offensive line when reviewing the draft and the free agent market. It's not logical to replace your offensive coordinator with a BINGO caller. None of it follows logic. In another ten years we will be looking back at this point in time as the "illogical years". Unfortunately, we have to live through them first, and hope for logic to prevail - futilely.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 30, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

there is a play that sticks in my mind where Sellars and Mason were in on an I form, Campbell drops back and both of those guys got run over...sack.

And bringing in Betts(30 yrs old, 21 yards rushing through 7 gms) on 3rd is cool if he's out in a pattern, but as a blocker makes NO sense.

I would like to see Yoder and Rock get more snaps!

Since Portis called out Sellars I rewarched that game and and focused on Sellars more since then, I think he looks awful. He's not finding anyone to hit way too often. On Portis 78 yard run there was one guy to block and sellers fell down, as 1 example. Sellers is 35, missing blocks, and getting penalties

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 30, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

Redskins run the table after the bye.

You heard it here first...

and last.

(of course, my definition of "run the table" is when you continue to look like hammered poo poo and talk about "tweaking" this or that when the season is really over.)

Posted by: Thinker_ | October 30, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

And, actually, if you look at the Eagles game...

Pretend Campbell's tip ball Int never happens...

then, while you're pretending, let's pretend the shotgun snap goes to Campbell and we score a touch down.

That's a 14 pt. swing, giving us a W.

And then, let's pretend that instead of watching the game with my buddy Jed, Eva Longoria came over and was sitting on my lap wearing a skirt with no panties and sucking on my ear the whole time...

See?

Reality stinks.

Posted by: Thinker_ | October 30, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

I never liked Sellers much.

He's dumb.

PS - I think Portis could take him, too.

Posted by: Thinker_ | October 30, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Butter Pecan ice cream is better with cinnamon.

I just found that out last night.

I went back for seconds to make sure. It's yummy.

Posted by: Thinker_ | October 30, 2009 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Eva Longoria came over and was sitting on my lap wearing a skirt with no panties and sucking on my ear the whole time...

Posted by: Thinker_ | October 30, 2009 8:44 PM

And she was wearing cinnamon and you went back for seconds to make sure. Then Jason Campbell came in and got thirds. But she liked you better because you're a thinker, not a do-er.

Posted by: League-Source | October 30, 2009 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Did u no that Sun and Mon are the only 2 days of the yr u can watch all 4 prof sports in action? MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL. How about them apps!

Posted by: JumboJimbo | October 30, 2009 9:31 PM | Report abuse

MLB umps are screwing up. They tipped the balance in last night's game, letting Rivera escape the 8th inning. I would favor video review in the playoffs, not in the regular season - so many games, it would even out and takes too long. But in playoffs every game is critical and it is a difference maker. Give each team 3 challenges. They have video review in NBA for 3 point basket calls. Don't know what triggers the review. Refs in NBA are a joke - call only half of travelling violations, practically nothing for stahrs like Koby, LB. Showed clip on ESPN where Manu Gino took 4 steps without dribbling and there was no whistle from the refs.

Posted by: JumboJimbo | October 30, 2009 9:41 PM | Report abuse

chirp chirp chirp

Posted by: noonefromtampa | October 31, 2009 2:34 AM | Report abuse

noonefromtampa -- The early bird got the worm.

No worms. I'm going back to bed and waiting for daylight losing time to start.

Posted by: League-Source | October 31, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

It's a long way off and anything can happen, but Steve Wyche of NFL.com said that the Rams might be interested in Campbell should he hit the FA market. This FO needs to play this card right. They can get some value for JC because believe it or not, he'll be one of the more attractive FA QB in this class, a year in which there really aren't many franchise QBs in the draft. That's why getting a bona fide GM in here should be the next move Snyder should make. If the skins are going to move on from Campbell, and Rogers for that matter, I'd want to have someone other than Vinny making the requisite decisions.

Posted by: TWISI | October 31, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I have nothing positive to say about the present state of the Washington Readskins.

But I do have this to say:

GO YANKS!!!!!!!!

Like I said, I have nothing positive to say about the present state of the Washington Redskins.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 31, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Why dont we put a player package(NO PICS!!!) together for Fred Jackson form BUff, he tore it up bf M Lynch came back and he is young fast and agile, everything CP isnt anymore, just a thought.

Posted by: jefferboy | October 31, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Like I said, I have nothing positive to say about the present state of the Washington Redskins.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 31, 2009 10:26 AM |

Some see the glass as half-full. MistaMoe sees it as completely empty, lying on the floor in pieces with Kool Aid stains on the rug.

Posted by: League-Source | October 31, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

"Refs in NBA are a joke - call only half of travelling violations, practically nothing for stahrs like Koby, LB."

I was totally unaware that there was officiating during NBA games.

Talk about shock and awe.

Next, we'll read that Dick Chaney and the Grinch have both been cloned from Hitler.

Or that one of the most articulate men in the history of American mis-communication, George Bush, has re-invented himself as a motivational speaker.

I hear he's touring schools to show learning disabled kids what a similarly disabled adult looks like.

Proof that racism has waned as a force in American life is that the black president is proving to be just as disappointing as the long line of white ones that proceeded him.

Because of Obama, the new N-word is, "Not again!"

The NHL Channel is the worst pro sports channel on television.

The MLB Channel has the best analysis and least overkill.

People laughed when Rich Eisen left ESPN to work for the NFL. I bet he's laughing now.

Did I wish folks Happy Halloween?

Perhaps I haven't as this entire redskin football season has been all tricks and no treats.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 31, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

"Some see the glass as half-full. MistaMoe sees it as completely empty, lying on the floor in pieces with Kool Aid stains on the rug."

So what flavor of Kool Aid leaves brown stains on the floor?

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 31, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

So what flavor of Kool Aid leaves brown stains on the floor?

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 31, 2009 10:53 AM

Some see the stains as burgundy. MistaMoe sees them as brown.

Posted by: League-Source | October 31, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Here we are knee deep into the Bye and one prophesy has yet to come true:

Jim Zorn hasn't been fired.

You have to wonder if and when it will happen as from the outside, his employment situation with the redskins seems like a tricky game of chicken.

He has the title "Head Coach" but none of the authority that comes with the position as the front office seemingly can redefine his responsibilities at will.

This truism by itself will make a lot of strong candidates shy away from coaching the skins.

And above all, a strong charismatic type like Rex Ryan or Mike Tomlin would be a nice fit for the skins.

But for now, we're stuck with Zorn.

And it's hard to stay medium when you think about what the future with him might mean.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 31, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

the whole process was screwed up from the get-go... first they hire Zorn for the OC job then wait, he can make a good HC!!!

you think any established HC candidates currently in the market will want to work here under the current power structure?? heck no, unless he just wants the money.

Posted by: joek443 | October 31, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Bottom line, the Skins' offense needs to revamp how they warm up.

Below are the results of each opening drive.

jints: -1 yard
Rams: 9 yards
Det: 75 yards, Sack on 1st play, face mask penalty got the 1st down
Tampa: 0 yards/turnover
Carolina: 13yards/TD
KC: 9 yards/turnover
philly: 16 yards

Posted by: zcezcest1 | October 30, 2009 8:18 PM |

Primo sarcasm dude. We all know this team could warm up in Hades, it would make no difference.

Posted by: JumboJimbo | October 31, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I was sooooo stoked when I snagged that gnarly barrel.

Posted by: JumboJimbo | October 31, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

It's only November and were talking about the draft in April. With Vinney, "I've assembled a playoff team" still the GM. It just won't matter! The only scouting vinney does is from his armchair watching the highlights on ESPN.

Posted by: ccwbambam | October 31, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"Bottom line, the Skins' offense needs to revamp how they warm up."

I agree.

I always get ready for my games in bed by spooning in against a warm bottom.

When that happens, I tend to score.

This should work wonders for the redskins' offense.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 31, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

mistamayor

"...Zorn and special teams coach Danny Smith have kept Randle El back there on most returns because they can't afford potential injuries to Santana Moss or DeAngelo Hall..."

Your analysis should question the logic of using an underperforming player because of a fear of injury to other underperforming players.

The team is 2-4: how have a healthy Moss and Hall improved on its lack of success?

Plus: Devin Thomas will be a redskin next year, while Randle El will not be.

Let Devin Thomas--or Rock Cartwright--return kicks in light of Randle El's obvious failures.

Do bloggas a favor and shift into La Canfora mode on this team.

Feel free to engage in unwarranted criticism at will.

JLC would: and look at where it's got him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 31, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Sure, the FO sucks and Vinny needs to go.

But right now it's the coaching, the coaching, the coaching.

This cat Zorn doesn't motivate anyone, he doesn't game plan properly, his team (on offense - and lately, special teams) is unprepared, confused, and at times apathetic.

I don't care WHAT the word was a couple weeks ago re all that BS from a few players saying "We like Zorn."

COUNT on offseason quotes from players (after Zorn has been fired) saying he wasn't motivating people, he wasn't putting players in position to win, he wasn't a good coach, et al.

And that will be the truth; the faux "support" he gets from a few anonymous "vets" right now is just window-dressing, because what the eff else CAN they say? He's here until January.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 31, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I've been away. Did the 'skins buy the Post?

Come on guys, you've got the offseason to rest. There's a depression going on, lots of people will work 8 days a week year 'round.

I kid. enjoy your days off, but for heaven's sake, let an intern keep the pot boiling, or sumpthin'

Posted by: TheCork | October 31, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Sure, the FO sucks and Vinny needs to go.

But right now it's the coaching, the coaching, the coaching.

Mr. Redskin21


as an aviation buff, I read a lot of accident reports. In almost every single instance, it's never just one thing that causes the wreck. It's always a series of mistakes, screwups, misunderstandings, equipment failures, bad weather, etc.

This team is a plane wreck without the blood and family notifications.

It's NOT just one thing. BUT. the captain, in this case Snyder has the ultimate responsibility. Especially when his co-pilot can't fly a plane. (Okay, end of metaphors.)

I agree Zorn is waaaay over his head. Too bad. Seems like a good guy. But he has NO chance with Snyder, cerrato,Snyder, Portis, Awful drafts, campbell, that wretched Oline, Snyder, terrible FA signings, aging players, Snyder, scouting, Snyder and of course, Cerrato. Did I mention Snyder?

Posted by: TheCork | October 31, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I am the only only one who is finding it hard to muster any enthusiasm, or to even care one iota about Snyder's Redskins?

I simply cannot disassociate the owner from the team.

Please help me, as I'm teetering on the edge of apathy, about to fall into a pit of scathing antipathy for this organization and all things attendant with it.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 31, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

There's a depression going on, lots of people will work 8 days a week year 'round.

Posted by: TheCork | October 31, 2009 2:31 PM

Hey, fool, this is Washington. We're from the government. We don't even work five day weeks. And be glad we don't. Think of the mischief we could make working full time.

Posted by: League-Source | October 31, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

signed,
Redskins ex-patriot in the making.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 31, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

and Mark Cuban's defense of Snyder is laughable.

F Mark Cuban

F Dan Snyder

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 31, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

oh and F Obama.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 31, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

"Bottom line, the Skins' offense needs to revamp how they warm up."

I believe the Skins have scored 2 offensive TDs in the first half all year.

Hard to warm up something that's dead.

Posted by: p1funk | October 31, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Hard to warm up something that's dead.

Posted by: p1funk | October 31, 2009 3:24 PM |

Hey, we can get the same people who warm up Cork three times a day and send him over to post on RI. If they can put life into that stiff they can rejuvenate the Redskin offense.

Posted by: League-Source | October 31, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Sure, the FO sucks and Vinny needs to go.

But right now it's the coaching, the coaching, the coaching.

Mr. Redskin21


as an aviation buff, I read a lot of accident reports. In almost every single instance, it's never just one thing that causes the wreck. It's always a series of mistakes, screwups, misunderstandings, equipment failures, bad weather, etc.

This team is a plane wreck without the blood and family notifications.

It's NOT just one thing. BUT. the captain, in this case Snyder has the ultimate responsibility. Especially when his co-pilot can't fly a plane. (Okay, end of metaphors.)

I agree Zorn is waaaay over his head. Too bad. Seems like a good guy. But he has NO chance with Snyder, cerrato,Snyder, Portis, Awful drafts, campbell, that wretched Oline, Snyder, terrible FA signings, aging players, Snyder, scouting, Snyder and of course, Cerrato. Did I mention Snyder?

Posted by: TheCork | October 31, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Despite my DNA kicking against it, I have to agree fully with Cork.

At this point the coaching is irrelevant. The whole outfit is utterly dysfunctional.

They took a career position coach and made him a head coach along with the expectation of making the playoffs almost immediately, while installing a new offense ill-suited to the personnel on the roster.

Who does that nonsense? Who hires someone like that into a situation like that and expects it to succeed?

Posted by: p1funk | October 31, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Who hires someone like that into a situation like that and expects it to succeed?

Posted by: p1funk | October 31, 2009 3:32 PM

Her professional name is "Rosy Scenario".

Posted by: League-Source | October 31, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Hey, we can get the same people who warm up Cork three times a day and send him over to post on RI. If they can put life into that stiff they can rejuvenate the Redskin offense.

Posted by: League-Source | October 31, 2009 3:29 PM |

Are you going to take this lying down? What the hell is wrong witch you? It's Halloween, for Chrissake.

Posted by: JumboJimbo | October 31, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

JumboJimbo--You talking to Cork about Halloween? For him every day is Halloween. He wears his fright mask 24/7/365. Wouldn't be caught dead without it.

Posted by: League-Source | October 31, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

BYE WEEK's STINK!!!!!

I would rather see the Redskins lose than to not have seen them at all!

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | November 1, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

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