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At Wide Receiver, It's a Question of No. 2

With just a handful of positions up for grabs entering training camp, Coach Jim Zorn has tabbed his starting right guard and his backup quarterback. While he still isn't certain who will be his No. 2 wide receiver, Friday night's game against the Patriots should yield the most clues to date.

While Devin Thomas began training camp with a slight edge over Malcolm Kelly, the consensus around Redskins Park is that Kelly is now the top candidate to line up opposite Santana Moss in the flanker spot.

With the first-team offense expected to play as much as a full half Friday night, fans should walk away with a decent idea of how the battle between Thomas, Kelly and incumbent, Antwaan Randle El is shaping up thus far. Zorn cautioned last week that he isn't expecting to anoint the No. 2 receiver at the conclusion of the Pats' game. In fact, he might not know who wins the job "until a couple games into the season," he said.


"I think they really are even right now. I've seen them both working to try to set themselves apart and yet they're both climbing while they're doing that so I think it's very difficult to tell," Zorn said of Kelly and Thomas, both of whom were selected in the second round of the 2008 draft. "They both have a real strong desire to be 'the guy,' and yet Antwaan Randle El is battling in there too.

"It's a little bit clouded. I don't really have a decision to make yet, and I don't know if it will come that soon."

As for the receivers themselves, they're being careful not to check scoreboard each day of the preseason. "I don't know. I'm not the roster guy," Thomas said. "I just play."

While it's easy to talk about the battle as a two-man competition, Zorn makes certain to remind everyone that Randle El could retain the job. He's also made clear, though, that he thinks Randle El would be perfect for the slot.

It's dangerous to use preseason stats as a solitary judge, but Kelly leads the group with five catches and 47 yards through the first two games. Thomas has 19 yards on two receptions and Randle El has one catch for 15 yards.

Perhaps more telling is the fact that Kelly got the start against the Steelers last week. Unless, of course, that's not telling at all. Zorn says Kelly was in the starting lineup because he wanted to open the game with a deep route.

"The second you start reading into all that stuff and start believing all that stuff is the second someone's going to pass you up," Kelly said. "Every day I come out here, it's a day-to-day deal. I come out here every day, practice as hard as I can, make sure I know my plays, and if I do that, go out there and catch the ball, everything else will come."

Even if neither Kelly nor Thomas supplants Randle El as the No. 2 receiver, Zorn has to like the progress his second-year receivers have made during the preseason, especially when compared with last year. The competition that has materialized during this year's camp is exactly what coaches had envisioned a year ago, when injuries hampered Kelly and Thomas.

"I think the guys they really emphasized on getting better got better," receiver Santana Moss said. "Regardless of how many you have out there, you could have all the people in the world, but they have to be productive in games. So now the next thing is us figuring out how we're going to use some of these guys."

By Rick Maese  |  August 27, 2009; 10:15 AM ET
 
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Next: Teammates to Campbell: Ignore the Critics

Comments

Hi

Posted by: richard_cranium | August 27, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I always like to take my time with No. 2. No sense in rushing it.

Posted by: moo21 | August 27, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"If Andy Pollin does not like that, too bad." Vinnie C. in response to Andy Pollin criticism of the teams' Tweeter policy.

Posted by: Masonman | August 27, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

At the wide receiver position, at whether to play with the toddler given the risk of diaper duty, its always about No. 2.

Posted by: dcsween | August 27, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Am wondering about the receivers' confidence at hauling in Campbell's bombs.. hope practice makes perfect. Or not.. Perhaps Marko Mitchell is the answer?

Posted by: RedCherokee | August 27, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Good stuff....interesting to hear that MK, and DT are making progress...turns out they might not be busts after all.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

What questions? Has MK12 not proved his worth? Are you not entertained by the guy this blog has hated on since last preseason. The guy who is consistently lumped in with DThomas for no apparent reason??!!!?

MK12 has been INJURED. DThomas has been UNDERPERFORMING. These dudes should never be lumped together.

ALSO, I thought it was already understood that ARE will be #3 irregardless of who is #2? And Zorn has said this himself last week......

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/27/campbell-first-team-needs-a-td/

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 27, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Vinny said it was The Post that made them put into place a policy of no-twitter allowed for giving away secrets and stuff.

Posted by: alex35332 | August 27, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

I though Devin clearly has better flat line speed, why would he start malcolm with the deep pass when he is the slower of the two WR. Clearly MK has positioned himself to be the #2.

Posted by: Stu27 | August 27, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

4th, you bet drafted in 2nd round together you'll always be linked. Also I think zorn has flip flopped on are thus the multiple narratives....prolly on porpoise.

"...turns out they might not be busts after all....."

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Whoa BG are u a wait n see guy or not, picture still crazily incomplete. You know if you flipped your statement to the mighr be busts you'd jump on the poster.

Lets stay consistent and judge after this season...either way.

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

sorry typos, tying one handed....hey! get your mind outta the gutter....baby in other hand!

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

JLaC & JReid:

JLaC: I thought we were boys MAAAAAN??!?!!?

JReid: Dude....I was brought in for damage control, The WashPost was about to have their press pass pulled because of you trying to get big. You remember that bathroom stall I use to report from last year?? Well....As I was in it geting ready to tape once, I was getting this 'toe tapping' in the stall next to me. I tapped back and to my surprise it was Vinny. Well....All I can say is the Post is now in great standing with Vinny....Thanks to my work I had to put in.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 27, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

JC may be a better athlete than Ryp was..not even close actually, but, Ryp could throw the ball downfield as accurate and beautiful as anybody and that kept the defense honest and off the line of scrimmage. Yeah his receivers had better stats but were they really better receivers than what we have now or was it because we had the best pass protection in the game and Ryp took advantage of it?? For what my two cents are worth, I'd say that Jason is compounding his own problems of protection by holding the ball too long and taking too many sacks. his timing is off and I could care less how athletic he is, he's not back there to run around, he's back there to advance the ball thru the air to his receivers...so far he hasn't done that too well. So was Ryp better?? He's had more success thats for sure. Bad haircut and all

Posted by: scottmando | August 27, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Fair enough TE. You're right. My point is simply that as good as we expect our defense to be this year, we are thisclose to an injury screwwing the whole thing up. And Carlos not healthy when he's in a contract year tells me its not good and he's not just being lazy and thast concerns me.. so I asked for thoughts..Or we could just continue talking about the fat drunk dead senator who chased women and got away with manslaughter and is now being remembered as such a great man who served the people his whole life

Posted by: scottmando | August 27, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: scottmando | August 27, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Bean....from the other day, you said it never ceases to amaze you when I said Thomas was getting close to the bust level if he gets past on the depth chart by a 7th round rookie....how is there any argument to that? I thought it took 37 years for a rookie to develop and we can't expect anything from them until they've been in the league for 6 or 7 years right? so how could a 7th round rookie possibly be better than Thomas in year 2 unless there's a possibility that he's a bust?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/26/devin-thomas-sliding-down-depth-chart/

He isn't yet but if he falls to 5th on the depth chart behind Kelly, Mitchell, and ARE it would be hard to look at if much differently would it?

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

I don't care who is number 2 as long as it is not Randall El. I like Randall El, I just think there is a huge advantage to having a big guy in for the red zone. And if you bring him in as a substitute in the red zone, then it telegraphs the play. We need an every down big guy.

Posted by: Wemiss21 | August 27, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

cl, all I was trying to point out is that there has been signifigant progress made with these 2, despite many people claiming that they should have been cut last year....all I ever preached was patience...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

To my thinking THOMAS needs to step it up. So far, based strictly upon on the field play, I have found either MALCOLM KELLY or MARKO MITCHELL to be deserving of the title #2. While I in no way feel MITCHELL is actually the #2 receiver, I haven't seen THOMAS do anything to change my mind that MARKO deserves a ranking ahoad of him. MITCHELL should make this team as the #5.

Posted by: glawrence007 | August 27, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Vinny said it was The Post that made them put into place a policy of no-twitter allowed for giving away secrets and stuff.

Posted by: alex35332 | August 27, 2009 10:34 AM

And I agree. The post has a 40 year history of giving away secrets and stuff.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 27, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Yeah his receivers had better stats but were they really better receivers than what we have now or was it because we had the best pass protection in the game and Ryp took advantage of it??

OK DONT ANSWER THAT..I KNOW I KNOW

Posted by: scottmando | August 27, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Rypien rulz
JC....well... we'll see

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Can we see Michell get some time at #2 while the starters are out there?

Would love to see what he does against 1st string D.

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 27, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

"This is the second time Cerrato has requested me as a guest, which means he couldn't find anyone better or just likes the fact I work at a great price (free)."--RI

Call me a grumpy old cynic--and you wouldn't be the first--but if I were you I'd look for more sinister motivations.

Posted by: TheCork | August 27, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

zj, trying to interject facts/logic here, at the NFL level the normal time to acclimate for a WR is 2-3 years. Let me know if you need that explained in a more clear fashion because you STILL don't seem to grasp it...

Terry Bradshaw is dead. Thats all you need to know about PFT. Call me when the depth chart comes out, and this is proven true, otherwise are you really relying on PFT for the basis of your argument?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I don't see anyone lumping LaVar and CSameuls, though they were drafted back to back in consecutive picks......

Cl - Your daughter doesn't try to attack the Computer Screen like mine does? How old is the little one now anyway??

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 27, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Or we could just continue talking about the fat drunk dead senator who chased women and got away with manslaughter and is now being remembered as such a great man who served the people his whole life

Posted by: scottmando | August 27, 2009 10:38 AM

Can the PC guys give us a ruling on this? Is it still too early to talk in this manner about Senator Kennedy?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 27, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

BG you really have very little evidence of that. 4th is dead on about MK in that the only real ?/negative was health so yes him staying healthy is progress, albeit dubious at best considering that could change quickly. In terms of play/practice this year reads just like last year.

DT11, well i'd be hard pressed to spin the reports as positive. Mixed at best. He is certainly adept at saying the right things, has that translated to play. The only real answer is no.

But the two year holds so all evaluations +/- are really premature and attempts to do so are purely to back up a point of view.

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Call me a grumpy old cynic--and you wouldn't be the first--but if I were you I'd look for more sinister motivations.

Posted by: TheCork | August 27, 2009 10:48 AM

LOL

Maybe JReid will remember that note to himself not saying anything more than he needs to.

Posted by: RedCherokee | August 27, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Oh forgive me - may Senator Kennedy rest in peace...no offense to the mourners

Posted by: scottmando | August 27, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

I don't care who is number 2 as long as it is not Randall El. I like Randall El, I just think there is a huge advantage to having a big guy in for the red zone. And if you bring him in as a substitute in the red zone, then it telegraphs the play. We need an every down big guy.

Posted by: Wemiss21

Yeah, but more than that it'd be nice to actually build talent at WR instead of buying in the offseason. Randle El was always best used as "that other guy." Once we was #2 his stats went downward. But with his throwing ability and the burgeoning use of the Wildcat formation, I think it'd be stupid not to use him since he was a former QB.

Posted by: pgugino | August 27, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Bean, you'd be so right if it weren't for the fact that if Marko (as a 7th round rookie) passes a guy who has been in the system and through two training camps and an entire season it speaks to DT being not very good. The so-called 3 year "rule" isn't so much a rule as a guideline. Some rookies come in and a great right away, some it takes a little while, and some never get it....the 3 year thing is a barometer more than anything else and you really think there's any other way to look at DT than as a bust if Marko passes him on the depth chart?

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Cork,
If you are out there, I'm curious to know your feelings about the Mayor going on Vinny's show. Please, do share...

Posted by: p1funk | August 27, 2009 9:49 AM |

I feel better knowing it’s at a Redskin event, rather than him just appearing on his show. The whole thing is a slippery slope, but JR is an old hand, and should be able to handle it.

But being invited inside the Velvet Rope can be very seductive, so let’s see how critical he is of the FO in upcoming weeks.

That’s complicated by the fact that despite the recent management mistakes, it looks like with good health and some smiles of Dame Fortune, this could be a good team this year.

Posted by: TheCork | August 27, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Samuels/lavar slightly diff, but they were linked a god amount while on team. my amendment would be same draft round/position always linked.

9 months and yeah she dive bombs computer frequently.

4th i am in ri hamster....GAME ON! (Wish it was live draft...autopick blows!)

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

"if Marko (as a 7th round rookie) passes a guy"

How about if we let this event actually happen....before you beat your chest about it.....you know, something more than mere speculation from PFT...something a little more concrete.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

you really think there's any other way to look at DT than as a bust if Marko passes him on the depth chart?

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 11:01 AM

Maybe you'd say, "Wow, that Marko's really good." It doesn't follow that DT is a bust. Jerry Rice beat out a lot of guys, but it doesn't follow that the ones he beat out were busts.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 27, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

You can't live draft? You sure about that??

Thx on the 'lil one update...

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 27, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Has MK12 not proved his worth? Are you not entertained by the guy this blog has hated on since last preseason. The guy who is consistently lumped in with DThomas for no apparent reason??!!!?

MK12 has been INJURED. DThomas has been UNDERPERFORMING. These dudes should never be lumped together.

Posted by 4th FLOOR


They were lumped together when BOTH receivers showed up to camp out of shape last year according to their head coach, Jim Zorn.

Whether or not Kelly would have eventually injured himself is forever unknown, but THAT's why they were joined at the hip as first year disappointments.

They were further lumped together this year by competing for the same PT and by the fact both came to camp IN SHAPE.

Call it a hunch, but if he stays healthy, I think Kelly will pull away from Thomas this year. It really helps when you know the plays.

Posted by: TheCork | August 27, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

I feel better knowing it’s at a Redskin event, rather than him just appearing on his show. The whole thing is a slippery slope, but JR is an old hand, and should be able to handle it.

Posted by: TheCork | August 27, 2009 11:02 AM

Do you think that Vinnie is paying him with a new Escalade for appearing on the show? That might raise eyebrows. Of course, with the Cash for Clunkers rebate the Escalade cost next to nothing so maybe it's okay?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 27, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

So where is Leigh Torrence these days?

Posted by: 44riggosranger44 | August 27, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

te, the problem with that logic, is that it contradicts with what zj wants to have happen...he wants DT to be a failure so that he can come on here, and shoot his mouth off about how right he was about the whole thing.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

9 months and yeah she dive bombs computer frequently.

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:03 AM

Not much longer before she has her own Facebook page. At least, that's how it will seem. "Wow, it was only yesterday...."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 27, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Its time to reevalute your view of PFT with the NBC affiliation. I mean they have only been endorsed by the premiere network prime time football show in the country. Hardly a rogue website at this point. Just sayin....

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

"the 3 year thing is a barometer more than anything else"

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 11:01 AM

Winced when I read that. JC's passed that. I know some of the fans would say he's a bust. Some would say the jury's still out on him. I haven't forgotten last year when Campbell set an NFL record for consecutive passes without an interception. That was an remarkable feat.

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Campbell__Redskins_Set_NFL_Interception_Record_25655.jsp

Posted by: RedCherokee | August 27, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Or we could just continue talking about the fat drunk dead senator who chased women and got away with manslaughter and is now being remembered as such a great man who served the people his whole life

Posted by: scottmando | August 27, 2009 10:38 AM

First of all, bite me. Second, spare me your concern for Mary Jo Kopechne. Id be swilling to bet you cheered when Bush sent American servicemen to die by the thousands in his illegal war. Now that gutterslime has slithered back toTexas, having done his best to ruin the country.

NO ONE buys what you or other Righties say as you slander a man who did more good for Americans inone day than you'll do in your entire life. You hate him becaue he's Liberal, you hate him because he's a Kennedy, you hate him because nothing comes easier to the Far Right than hate.

Posted by: TheCork | August 27, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Say, does anyone else think Devin Thomas could become the return man? If Kelly beats him out, that'd make him 4th on the depth chart, and with an impressive Marko Mitchell in the 5th spot and perhaps D.J. Hackett too, it could be an interesting way to phase in Marcus Mason to take over for Rock Cartwright (if Mason balls in this opportunity against the Pats). Thoughts?

Posted by: TDawg1 | August 27, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"te, the problem with that logic, is that it contradicts with what zj wants to have happen...he wants DT to be a failure so that he can come on here, and shoot his mouth off about how right he was about the whole thing.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

OK after this I will be done, but sort of a false premise here. Flip the opinion and handle and its the same thing. Neither of you have enough on your side to take it out of the realm of opinion. Which is fine, I am pro opinion....but the hollier than thou logic/facts is really not applicable either way. Its an incomplete picture. Thats why there is rich debate.

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

LOL WOW CORK!! TELL ME HOW YOU REALLY FEEL!! LOL I guess this means you voted for Obama this year and Ronald Reagan was the Devil himself in your eyes.. OK. TOUCHY TOUCHY LOL

Posted by: scottmando | August 27, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

tomorrow night is going to be a huge test for this team. The pats are widely considered to be in line for the SBowl, so it could be a good guage of where the Redskins are as a team how well we fare against them. Heyer versus Warren is one matchup to watch, Rabach versus Wilfork is another.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1


It’s a HUGE test for both teams, and I can’t wait to see the game.

The battle of the lines is what I’m looking forward to. I recall how the Giants wore down and beat up the NE offensive line in the SB. It will be illustrative to see if the Redskins Bad Boys can do the same—tho they won’t have an entire game to wear them down.

W/O a pass rush, Brady will pick apart the Redskins pass defense, especially without having carlos there. Moss vs. Hall? Ouch.

Rabach tends to be run over by big, good nose guards. We’ll see what the presence of a Dockery and a healthy Thomas does to change that. I venture few QBs have had more preseason pressure on them than Campbell does tonight. His future and the Redskins future are at stake, nothing important..

Posted by: TheCork | August 27, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

c'mon no more Ted Kennedy stuff please? I love politics but when they are discussed on RI the nations IQ is cumlatively lowered. And lets be Frank, we can't afford to go much lower.

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

easy corky, easy....take a deep breath....we all are entitled to our own opinion of Ted....whether you agree with it or not....

Nice job hating on Bush, then pointing out how the right has a stronghold on hating, and how easy it is to us.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

te, the problem with that logic, is that it contradicts with what zj wants to have happen...he wants DT to be a failure so that he can come on here, and shoot his mouth off about how right he was about the whole thing.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

The only enjoyment I will get out of it is you and your stupid wait and see being wrong again. What's flawed in your logic is that theoretically on a long enough timeline anything can happen, for you there is never an answer or a judgment that can be made because their is always that what if wait and see out there. You have no proof mind you but because other guys got good at some point down the road after they were drafted its wait and see. Its the same thing with the oline depth and the stupid picks they made in this draft of a couple of LBs that won't make the squad when their were talented lineman on the board. Despite over a decade of bad decision making and utter failures by Danny and for most of the time Vinny you can always just say wait and see even as Henson or Glenn or both get cut.

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

It's a live draft, yo. 10pm Eastern/7pm Pacific tonight.

Still waiting for a couple of hamsters to get registered... I've sent repeated annoying emails.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | August 27, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Or we could just continue talking about the fat drunk dead senator who chased women and got away with manslaughter and is now being remembered as such a great man who served the people his whole life

Posted by: scottmando

i'd rather have a fat drunk senator than a foot tapping in the airport bathroom closeted homosexual hipocrit senator

Posted by: pabrian2003 | August 27, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

kelly passing thomas could have nothing to do with DT being a bust or any of these other names and adjectives you use to describe him. if there's a competition for a position, the logical conclusion is that there has to be a winner. the winner is ususally the person who outperforms the loser in said competition. one could also conclude that winning a competition is a function of outperforming your opponent. that being said, zorn and everyone who's been to redskin park this offseason ans preseason has spoken very highly of both MK12 and DT11(?). It's only been this past coupla weeks that MK12 has surged past DT, only being elevated to the no. 2 spot 1 day before the pitt game. i'd lay off DT i luv what MK12 is doing and have been very impressed by his play, however i can't make a judgement on DT based on how well MK12 is playing. I think both guys will porduce this year.


I though Devin clearly has better flat line speed, why would he start malcolm with the deep pass when he is the slower of the two WR. Clearly MK has positioned himself to be the #2.

Posted by: Stu27 | August 27, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

That's what JC thought too going into the Pitt gm JC and MK12 had never practiced that play together and JC said he was surprised at MK's ability to separate. Underthrowing and 6'4" wr you didn't know was as fast as he is in the preseason is a good problem. It's a mistake i don't expect JC to make again.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 27, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

oh it is!!! sweet! thanks nate! Can't wait until 4th reaches for MK12 in the third!

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

i'd rather have a fat drunk senator than a foot tapping in the airport bathroom closeted homosexual hipocrit senator

Posted by: pabrian2003 | August 27, 2009 11:25 AM

Are they the only two candidates in your state?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 27, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

it would be easy to pick the no.2 receiver if they would cut every guy that pulled a hamstring, as some commenters suggested.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | August 27, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Nate - There are 4 of them right now....I say delete them by the afternoon and if there is no one else who wants to join, cut those 4 teams.....And we'll still be good..

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 27, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"What's flawed in your logic is that theoretically on a long enough timeline anything can happen"

Proving that you truly do not understand the whole, 2-3 year process on evaluating these things.....until you can understand this, then talking to you is fruitless.....see, I'm not saying use a long enough timeline, I'm saying the Rule of Thumb is that WR is a hard position to transition to, and it normally takes 2-3 years......

Do you understand what this means??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

First of all, bite me. Second, spare me your concern for Mary Jo Kopechne. Id be swilling to bet you cheered when Bush sent American servicemen to die by the thousands in his illegal war. Now that gutterslime has slithered back toTexas, having done his best to ruin the country.

NO ONE buys what you or other Righties say as you slander a man who did more good for Americans inone day than you'll do in your entire life. You hate him becaue he's Liberal, you hate him because he's a Kennedy, you hate him because nothing comes easier to the Far Right than hate.

Posted by: TheCork | August 27, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Sounds like there's a lot of hate on both ends of the political spectrum. But then we knew that, didn't we?

Posted by: frediefritz | August 27, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Say, does anyone else think Devin Thomas could become the return man? ... it could be an interesting way to phase in Marcus Mason to take over for Rock Cartwright....
Posted by: TDawg1 | August 27, 2009 11:17 AM
+++++++++++
It would be awesome to see Thomas show skill as a kick returner. If we could find a suitable replacement for Cartwright returning kicks, it really opens up the possibility of releasing Rock and retaining one of the other RBs. It would be a big plus to have a change-of-pace 3rd RB--like Mason or the dude from the CFL....

Posted by: smurff1 | August 27, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

First I would like to say Im happy to see my fellow skins fans are excited about Marko, because when we drafted him and I expressed my excitement I was grammatically tortured by my fellow skins fans so great to see it. Secondly, I am not convinced about Devin Thomas nor was I ever convinced. He had a short college career where he was semi productive and if you see him on the field he seems never to eager to get the ball and always seem unaware when its coming his way(which is why I was excited by marko). But trust me by the end of this year and you guys can quote me on this, Marko will have a more prominent role and Thomas will get the short stick. Moss, Kelly, Randle El, and Marko will be the four by mid-way through the season.

Posted by: Tom_square | August 27, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

c'mon no more Ted Kennedy stuff please? I love politics but when they are discussed on RI the nations IQ is cumlatively lowered. And lets be Frank, we can't afford to go much lower.

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:20 AM

R E P U B L I C A N ?

Posted by: skinstalker | August 27, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

nothing comes easier to the Far Right than hate.

Posted by: TheCork | August 27, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse


hello pot i would like you to meet kettle

Posted by: jonthefisherman | August 27, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Beantown--You are way too wait-and-see. You don't understand the fundamental concept of snap reality:

1. When your child is born, you know whether she will be a doctor
2. When you drive your new car off the lot you know whether it will be a lemon
3. When you are accepted to college you know whether it is the right school for you
4. When you get laid, you know whether you will marry the chick

Maturation and experience don't exist.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 27, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

When I think of Devin Thomas; I think "No.2"...

Posted by: p1funk | August 27, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

oh it is!!! sweet! thanks nate! Can't wait until 4th reaches for MK12 in the third!

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:26 AM

My roster will be a monster....I have been scouting all summer. Trends in the league will change this year, but I can't say anymore of that......

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 27, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Smurff1 look for the skins to try out the guy from the CFL hes number 32. Hes very elusive and run with power. I hope the skins come to their senses and cut Ladell Betts because Mason seems more suitable to me but thats my opinion.

Posted by: Tom_square | August 27, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Rule of Thumb is that WR is a hard position to transition to, and it normally takes 2-3 years......


And this would be year 2 and he's working on getting passed on the depth chart by a 7th round rookie....so what am I missing?

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

"

c'mon no more Ted Kennedy stuff please? I love politics but when they are discussed on RI the nations IQ is cumlatively lowered. And lets be Frank, we can't afford to go much lower.

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:20 AM

R E P U B L I C A N ?

Posted by: skinstalker | August 27, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse "

Not even close, I prolly make Pelosi look like a town hall crazy....just think political discourse on RI is at the level the makes us all dumber. NOT and peanutbutter and chocolate situation.

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

It would be awesome to see Thomas show skill as a kick returner. If we could find a suitable replacement for Cartwright returning kicks, it really opens up the possibility of releasing Rock and retaining one of the other RBs. It would be a big plus to have a change-of-pace 3rd RB--like Mason or the dude from the CFL....

Posted by: smurff1 | August 27, 2009 11:30 AM

Yeah but the Redskins are not going to for the same reason not risking Moss to injury so he can continue his important role at WR. Dorsey's perfect because he's faster and harder to spot given his 5'7- 175 lb frame.

Posted by: RedCherokee | August 27, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

"And this would be year 2 and he's working on getting passed on the depth chart by a 7th round rookie"

Did this actually happen, or was this a case of mere speculation by PFT.

Simple question, yes or no answer.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I hope the skins come to their senses and cut Ladell Betts because Mason seems more suitable to me but thats my opinion.

Posted by: Tom_square | August 27, 2009 11:39 AM

This will be decided in the next two games. But, Mason's been on three rosters and has never had a carry in a regular season game.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 27, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

4th I am jacked for our H2H! Going to be fun. May the best nerd win!

Posted by: chrislarry | August 27, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

I wonder how much of his personal family fortune Ted Kennedy gave to help the plight of the poor and down-trodden.

Or you could pass laws forcing everyone else who is not nearly as rich as you to give their dough to the govt to supposedly help the poor and down-trodden.

Either way, I guess...

Posted by: p1funk | August 27, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

"And this would be year 2 and he's working on getting passed on the depth chart by a 7th round rookie"

Did this actually happen, or was this a case of mere speculation by PFT.

Simple question, yes or no answer.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse


hence the phrase "working on" and hence the since the beginning of the conversation I have said "if he gets passed on the depth"....I knew you were dumb but I thought you could read.

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I hope the skins come to their senses and cut Ladell Betts because Mason seems more suitable to me but thats my opinion.

Posted by: Tom_square | August 27, 2009 11:39 AM


Word is that Mason could very well take Rock's spot on the roster, especially if he and DT can show something returning kicks.

They've been planning for Ladell to be a much bigger part of the offense; no sense cutting him now.

Posted by: p1funk | August 27, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Yea your right talent evaluator but if you look at the rosters that he was on; there was never a chance because the RB position was to crowded. I think this is the best year for him because we have lack of production from our back-ups and you can measure his talent and his heart every time he steps on the field. He runs hard against teams starters and their back ups.

Posted by: Tom_square | August 27, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

so then you agree that it hasn't actually happened yet....good....please come back when you have more than just PFT throwing crap at the wall to see if it sticks......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Maturation and experience don't exist.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 27, 2009 11:36 AM

Try telling that to Joe Montana. He wasn't a snap when he was drafted.. and it took 3 years before he appeared on the radar.

Posted by: RedCherokee | August 27, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Yea your right P1funk but Ladell is coming off serious injuries and has not been productive since that break out year/when we paid him all that money am I correct? like be honest, when have you watched a game and said honestly Betts is running hard in the last 2years p1funk.

Posted by: Tom_square | August 27, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

hello pot i would like you to meet kettle

Posted by: jonthefisherman | August 27, 2009 11:35 AM

This is the most tired come back line out there. Step your game up jon.

Posted by: mack1 | August 27, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

CL,
Worse RI topic?

Politics or Colt v Chase for the 100th time?

Posted by: alex35332 | August 27, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Smurff1 look for the skins to try out the guy from the CFL hes number 32. Hes very elusive and run with power. I hope the skins come to their senses and cut Ladell Betts because Mason seems more suitable to me but thats my opinion.

Posted by: Tom_square | August 27, 2009 11:39 AM

+++++++++++++++

32 is Dominique Dorsey. That's the guy I was thinking of. He looked pretty good to me returning punts last week. Both he and Mason looked good at RB.

Here's what I'd like to see for RBs:
Portis
Betts
Mason/Dorsey

Pros: Either Mason or Dorsey would add a LOT more to the running attack than Cartwright. Different runners than Portis and Betts, would make a great change-up. Hey, it worked for San Diego with Sproles...

Cons: If Cartwright goes, someone has to step in on kick returns. That's why I'd love to see Thomas shine there on Friday. I'll be watching that closely.


If you go with Dorsey, then you have the added benifit of having him to return punts. Can't overlook that, especially considering what little we got there last year from ARE. Not sure if Mason has been playing on Special Teams this preseason.

The key here is to find someone else for kick returns. Until that happens, Rock isn't going anywhere...

Posted by: smurff1 | August 27, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

The 2-3 year thing for WRs, as it's presented on this blog, is bogus. Players aren't completely inept in year 1 and 2, then magically become 1000 yard WRs in year 3. That rarely, if ever, happens. Even everyone's favorite comparison (and hope) to DT -- Roddy White -- had 450-500 yards receiving in each of his first 2 seasons. Then in year 3, his receiving stats went up by about 150% (to roughly 1250 yards). And that's on the high end for improvement.

Unfortunately for DT, an increase of 150% only gets him to about 300 yards on the season. If he's going to prove that he's not a bust, he better show significant improvement between year 1 and year 2.

Posted by: psps23 | August 27, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Bean, you missed the entire point of the question, it was a hypothetical that "if" it happens "then" is DT a bust? That was the question....this board is kind of for hypothetical, speculation, and opinion, if you could relax and take the emotion that anybody dare ask a question about your boy or the Vinny's draft class or anything about the Redskins in a negative light then you might see that "if" it happens its a pretty bad sign about our first overall pick in last years draft and puts him in the arena of bust land....that's all I was saying/asking, but feel free to to freak out about it since somebody dared to ask a question that the answer might be Vinny messed up.....are you Larry Michael in disguise all this time?

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Worse RI topic?

Politics or Colt v Chase for the 100th time?

Posted by: alex35332 | August 27, 2009 11:52 AM

Mike Vick and Dog Fighting

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 27, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

"but feel free to to freak out"

Yeah cuz thats what I did.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 27, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

For what its worth - Dan Steinberg was on WaPo Live yesterday discussing the Skins with Ivan Carter. Dan has been out at the Park and he was raving about Malcolm Kelly.

Posted by: Lisa_R | August 27, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Is it me or will Tryon move down on the chart on Friday. Tom Brady is definitely going to expose him and its not going to be pretty. Byron Westbrooke has look great in the Preseason but hes been overlooked by other position battles

Posted by: Tom_square | August 27, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

oops, my bad. too early. had vibes one was coming!

Posted by: RedCherokee | August 27, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Campbell: First team needs a TD

By Ryan O'Halloran | Thursday, August 27, 2009


One of the reasons Campbell hasn't produced great numbers is that he hasn't played a lot - 29 snaps in two games.

Among the 22 quarterbacks who entered camp as starters and have played two games, Campbell's four completions are the fewest and his 13 attempts are tied for the fewest with the Giants' Eli Manning.

Baltimore's Joe Flacco (17-for-33), Dallas' Tony Romo (22-for-30), Denver's Kyle Orton (27-for-42) and even New England's Tom Brady (14-for-23) have played much more than Campbell.


By me:

cause that makes so much sense since JC is obviously soooooo much better then the rest of the league he should be sitting and not getting any valuable reps in a system he doesn't know because its impossible to learn a system within the first 3 years.

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

The 2-3 year thing for WRs, as it's presented on this blog, is bogus. Players aren't completely inept in year 1 and 2, then magically become 1000 yard WRs in year 3. That rarely, if ever, happens. Even everyone's favorite comparison (and hope) to DT -- Roddy White -- had 450-500 yards receiving in each of his first 2 seasons. Then in year 3, his receiving stats went up by about 150% (to roughly 1250 yards). And that's on the high end for improvement.

Unfortunately for DT, an increase of 150% only gets him to about 300 yards on the season. If he's going to prove that he's not a bust, he better show significant improvement between year 1 and year 2.

Posted by: psps23 | August 27, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse


Couldn't agree more.

DT is not immune from criticism/assessment until year 3 of his NFL career.

Bottom line: He's been very disappointing so far, considering the opportunities he's had to prove himself.

We're not just talking about pedestrian output - we are talking about barely being able to play your way onto the field and/or secure a spot on the upper end of the depth chart.

Posted by: p1funk | August 27, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

i want to see a whole lot of marko mitchell friday.

stories are he's a beast...show US!!!

last year the word was (from zorn) that Thomas couldn't learn the playbook and was lazy...at the time i thought...you HAVE to be able to work him in, even if he only knows a limited amount of plays...maybe zorn was right...he looked lazy on the Collins INT in not coming back for the ball...

i want this kid to be a stud and he has all the tools...HAS LATE BLOOMER written all over.

Posted by: carsonspence | August 27, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Too bad we can't book a few home games at Redskin's Park. All our players, allegedly, play amazing ball on that field!

Posted by: mack1 | August 27, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

The 2-3 year thing for WRs, as it's presented on this blog, is bogus. Players aren't completely inept in year 1 and 2, then magically become 1000 yard WRs in year 3. That rarely, if ever, happens. Even everyone's favorite comparison (and hope) to DT -- Roddy White -- had 450-500 yards receiving in each of his first 2 seasons. Then in year 3, his receiving stats went up by about 150% (to roughly 1250 yards). And that's on the high end for improvement.

Unfortunately for DT, an increase of 150% only gets him to about 300 yards on the season. If he's going to prove that he's not a bust, he better show significant improvement between year 1 and year 2.

Posted by: psps23 | August 27, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse


Couldn't agree more.

DT is not immune from criticism/assessment until year 3 of his NFL career.

Bottom line: He's been very disappointing so far, considering the opportunities he's had to prove himself.

We're not just talking about pedestrian output - we are talking about barely being able to play your way onto the field and/or secure a spot on the upper end of the depth chart.

Posted by: p1funk | August 27, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Thank you guys, at least there is some sanity still up here.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 27, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

beep beep for real

Posted by: RedCherokee | August 27, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

If Jason plays BOLDLY , aka takes more risks, he'll be the Campbell's Soup dream quarterback, with a hefty endorsement check..

Posted by: frak | August 27, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Yea your right talent evaluator but if you look at the rosters that he was on; there was never a chance because the RB position was to crowded. I think this is the best year for him because we have lack of production from our back-ups and you can measure his talent and his heart every time he steps on the field. He runs hard against teams starters and their back ups.

Posted by: Tom_square | August 27, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse
I like the way Mason squares up and lowers his head when there isn't a hole. Speaking of a holes, ... well, I'll save that for another time. But I think MMason would be a better backup for CP in goal-line situations.

Posted by: frediefritz | August 27, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

if marko mitchell was good enough to pass DT he wouldn't have been a 7th rd pick. i like marko but i doubt you can name the guy he caught the td over. he hasn't proven anything in the nfl and i don't think anyone from the skins sees Marko as one of their to 3 wrs. he's impressed people, being a 7th rd pick and all, but as i said before, being impressed with product A doesn't mean product B is bad.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | August 27, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

look we all know who the no.2 wide out is and its not MK or DT. its Marko

Posted by: MGDMaster21 | August 27, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Based on production, Thomas should be battling Hackett for the 5th wr spot. If Hackett beats him out then maybe the skins can find a way to IR Thomas this year and give him one final shot at the team next year.

A good young qb is available for cheap from KC. Skins would be wise to pick him up for a 5th round pick.

Posted by: coparker5 | August 27, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Say, does anyone else think Devin Thomas could become the return man? If Kelly beats him out, that'd make him 4th on the depth chart, and with an impressive Marko Mitchell in the 5th spot and perhaps D.J. Hackett too, it could be an interesting way to phase in Marcus Mason to take over for Rock Cartwright (if Mason balls in this opportunity against the Pats). Thoughts?

Posted by: TDawg1 | August 27, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse


Here is the situation in my opinion on Marcus Mason:
Marcus will be given the opportunity to play early against the Pats tomorrow night because CP will only play 2 series maybe three. Betts is still hurt but will play a little and Rock is a Scatch for the game. Marcus will play with the one's and early two's to show if he is worth the roster spot. Yes he has been on three teams but B-more wanted to keep him but the Jets snagged him of their Practice squad. He ran into a situation with a new coaching change in New York and again they had a two running back system in New York that worked for them so he was never given the chance because during the season - practice is more of a walk thru and light hitting so he could not show his stuff in those two places. The Redskins quickly grabbed him off waivers because they know what he can do and they can pay him less than Rock to do the same thing as Rock. If they really loved Rock as many of you guys do then why did they bring in Shawn Alexander off the streets to back up CP until Betts got better. Read between the lines here...... If Marcus play well tomorrow night with first team he will make this roster.... And yes he has played special teams all preseason on kickoff, punt coverage and punt return. He made a tackle in the first Preseason game and assisted with fumble recovery in the second.

This is my opinion and I really do pay attention to the game and the story lines that follow.

Posted by: thebanker21 | August 27, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Hey TalentEvaluator, get your lips off DTs arse...we are tired of your endless defense of a man who has DONE NOTHING. Vinny is desperate to hand this guy the job, but it despite all efforts the guy has shown us zippy. Time to play the producers and bench the pretenders. Cheers.

Posted by: MPNangle | August 27, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: nattylite88 | August 27, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

marko Polo

Posted by: pjente | August 27, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

We would never lump these guys together

Signed

Csonka and Kikk

Posted by: ElYeah | August 27, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

IF it were up to me: 1. 'Tana 2. MK/MM 3. DT

Not excited about ARE coming up half a yard short or dropping yet another 3rd down ball.

And if DD/AA can return punts, Trade ARE for a starting caliber O lineman.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | August 27, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"The 2-3 year thing for WRs, as it's presented on this blog, is bogus. Players aren't completely inept in year 1 and 2, then magically become 1000 yard WRs in year 3. That rarely, if ever, happens. Even everyone's favorite comparison (and hope) to DT -- Roddy White -- had 450-500 yards receiving in each of his first 2 seasons. Then in year 3, his receiving stats went up by about 150% (to roughly 1250 yards). And that's on the high end for improvement.
"Unfortunately for DT, an increase of 150% only gets him to about 300 yards on the season. If he's going to prove that he's not a bust, he better show significant improvement between year 1 and year 2.
Posted by: psps23"

Why? Your example suggests that the improvement comes between Year 2 and Year 3. He's just entering Year 2. Shouldn't we expect another year of relatively low production?

You can argue that he underperformed in comparison to Roddy White in his first two years, so we probably shouldn't expect him to approach White's achievements in Year 3. But White's achievements are pretty remarkable, and allegedly had something to do with a new QB.

I don't know what's going to happen to Devin Thomas. Maybe he struggles, maybe he shines. Maybe neither. The Year 3 pattern is just correlation, right? Nobody's suggesting a causal relationship.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 27, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

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