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Best-Ever Redskins QB?

Need to take a break from the problems of Redskins present? Then hop over to our D.C. Sports Lists page, where all week, we're running polls on the best and worst of Washington athletics through the years.

The current list/poll is "Who is the greatest Redskin QB of all time?"

The lists and polls are based on a book by our own Leonard Shapiro and ESPN980's Andy Pollin -- The Great Book of Washington, D.C. Sports Lists. Lenny -- who will be online Thursday to chat about the lists -- and Andy tell me it makes a great stocking stuffer.

By Jon DeNunzio  |  December 16, 2008; 9:45 AM ET
 
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Next: You Asked for It: Contracts, the Cap and Free Agency

Comments

That's easy ! Danny Wuerfell

Posted by: dspinx | December 16, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Or maybe Tony Banks

Posted by: dspinx | December 16, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

A good team can never have enough backup TE's. This should be the focus.

Posted by: The_Spear

Well played.

Posted by: psps23 | December 16, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Ryp,

Why do you say Jansen is going no where, he can be released without it costing to much.

I hope you are not saying he stays because he is good.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 16, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Flounder - as long as we release Heyer, that would be ok with me. But Jansen isnt going anywhere, and we don't really need 3 RTs....

Unfortunately, we are hamstrung by Thomas' contract, which is ridiculous for him. But we should find a guy to replace him and have him play backup.

Rabach has 1 or 2 more years, but I think we should find a replacement for him and have him play backup...

Kendall is gone and LG MUST be one of our picks...

Samuels will be here another 4 years too.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse


You're officially cut off, release Heyer? a promising young cheap tackle and you want to release him? You're an idiot

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 16, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

I'm not saying I WANT Jansen starting, but not sure if well be able to get 2 quality starters to replace both him and Kendall.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 9:53 AM |

Heyer is better then jansen right now, he needs to work on run blocking in the off-season.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 16, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Flounder - as long as we release Heyer, that would be ok with me. But Jansen isnt going anywhere, and we don't really need 3 RTs....

Unfortunately, we are hamstrung by Thomas' contract, which is ridiculous for him. But we should find a guy to replace him and have him play backup.

Rabach has 1 or 2 more years, but I think we should find a replacement for him and have him play backup...

Kendall is gone and LG MUST be one of our picks...

Samuels will be here another 4 years too.

I'm not saying I WANT Jansen starting, but not sure if well be able to get 2 quality starters to replace both him and Kendall.

Plus, his release figure is 6 mil for next year, although I guess that would be 3 mil after June 1st? Which isnt too bad....

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Why do you say Jansen is going no where, he can be released without it costing to much.

Posted by: Flounder21

I'm pretty sure that Jansen is the only aging, useless veteran that will cost more to release than actually keep on the roster.

Posted by: psps23 | December 16, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

"Since we have blown last year's draft"

driley, can you elaborate on this??

And by 'elaborate' what I want you to do is show pick by pick what the Redskins should have done instead of picking the players that they did.

Corky, this is for you, and take into consideration that had the team drafted D. Jackson, E. Royal, and M. Bennett, it wouldn't have mattered because ZORN WONT THROW THE BALL TO THOSE GUYS.

Heck, he wont even throw the ball to Betts.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 16, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Kendall is gone and LG MUST be one of our picks...

Samuels will be here another 4 years too.

Posted by: Rypien11 |

We already have a left guard he was picked last year Rineheart.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 16, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

It's Baugh.

Although if I had to pick the best I've personally watched, it would be Joey T.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 16, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

zjfr - Heyer needs to improve significantly before he becomes a quality starter for us. Jansen has been starting over him all year, and we are all saying Jansen should go, so what does that tell you?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Heyer.

I am not sold that he is any good at all. He is a warm body at offensive tackle and this year that has value. My fondest hope is that the Skins of 2010 will not have Heyer as the starting offensive lineman but someone of much greater ability.

Posted by: driley | December 16, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

zjfr - Heyer needs to improve significantly before he becomes a quality starter for us. Jansen has been starting over him all year, and we are all saying Jansen should go, so what does that tell you?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 9:58 AM |

It tells me that the coaching staff stays with washed up veterans way to long.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 16, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

We need to get Rhinehart in and see if he can be the starter next year...

In my opinion, we need THREE new starters on the line next year. Samuels is gonna be there, Kendall will be replaced, so out of Rabach, Thomas, and Jansen, one of those guys should be riding the pine next year. I would vote for Jansen.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Yea, I'm not sold on Heyer as part of a top-tier line, but in no way, shape, or form should a guy that young, cheap, and experienced (for his age) be released.

The guy's a great backup and would be a solid holdover until a true stud could be groomed to take his place.

Posted by: psps23 | December 16, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I meant TWO of those guys. I think we should get a center to study under Rabach this year and start in 2010. And either pick a replacement to Thomas or Jansen.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

zjfr - Heyer needs to improve significantly before he becomes a quality starter for us. Jansen has been starting over him all year, and we are all saying Jansen should go, so what does that tell you?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Wow, cause that's what you do to build a good team, release second year equal talent guys (who started over Jansen until he got hurt)....you and vinny should hang out some

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 16, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

There is no need to elaborate on the phrase "blown last year's draft". Any person of unbiased intellect can see that with the exception of Horton the entire contribution of all the draft picks has been neglible. I return the challenge ball back to your court and ask you to defend the opposite by proving that this year's draft has contributed to a successful season, or I will make it much easier--just prove that the top 3 picks have contributed to an offensive passing attack.

Posted by: driley | December 16, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

I meant TWO of those guys. I think we should get a center to study under Rabach this year and start in 2010. And either pick a replacement to Thomas or Jansen.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 10:03 AM |

We had one on the practice squad Crummey who was picked up by the Bengals a couple of weeks ago.

He will probably be there starting center for the next 10 years with 5-6 pro bowls knowing are luck.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 16, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Rypien11,

I really think Heyer is better than Jansen despite what you mentioned. I never saw Heyer get blown back 6 yards off the line with so much frequency like Jon Jansen does. I understand the difference between the nature of passing blocking and just getting out muscled. Jansen got worked over constantly. Don't like the thought of having 3 RT's ? Than move Heyer to LT to be an understudy of Samuels. You can thrust a high pick RT in the slot for 09' or there are quite a few available in Free Agency this year. I think Jordan Gross of Carolina is there.

Posted by: dspinx | December 16, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

I will make it much easier--just prove that the top 3 picks have contributed to an offensive passing attack.

Posted by: driley | December 16, 2008 10:05 AM |

It's hard to contribute when the coach will not put you on the field, and when he does he will not throw you the ball.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 16, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Fine, we shouldn't release him, but I'm not confident in him as our franchise RT. Hes a capable backup in a pinch, but I still think we need a long term answer for Jansen leaving. I don't see him as it yet.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Fred Davis looked good against the Bengals, problem is he only was thrown to once.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 16, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Dspinx - I agree with that - by the time Samuels is gone, we'll know if Heyer is good enough to protect JCs blind side or not.

Gross would be good, but hes gonna command a lot of $$, and hell be 29 by the start of next season. Id rather find my own Gross in the draft (unlikely for us).

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Ryp,

If heyer doesn't get hurt Jansen never sees the field this year.

Jansen sucks he can't pass block and when they do run they never run to his side.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 16, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

I think the Skins are more in need of Dlinemen in the draft.

D-Linemen? You're out of your mind. This team's far and away most pressing need is on OL. The OL is too old, too slow, and too broken to get it done over 16 games.

You can directly trace the decline in offensive production and the losing streak to the breakdown of the OL.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 16, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Out of my mind? Look at the current roster. The OL definetly needs some picks from the draft, but Samuels will be the LT for at least a couple more years, Heyer is a starter who can play RT or LT and should start over Jansen if he's back. Rabach will look a lot better with some younger stronger G's next to him. One of which may already be on the roster (Rhinehart). So I say they need to take at least 2 OL in this draft, one of which can push to start at one of the G positions. Kendal and Thomas are long in the tooth. Look at the D Line! Yes the Skins havent drafted an OL in years high in the draft recently, but think about drafting high for DL. The last one that comes to mind is Kenard Lang in the 1st round (Miami) back in like 1997. Griff is an old beat up man. Carter and Taylor are F@#$ING JOKES ON THE EDGE and cant stop the run. They have 2 young DT's from the 2005 draft that are good rotational guys at this point... but a stud DT or DE? Hell no! They need a manimal in there like Ware in dallas, or like Tuck/Kiwanuka/Uminura in NY. So I say 3 spots on the OL are ok, but NO spots on teh DLine are OK. Am I still out of my mind?

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 16, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 16, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

"Since we have blown last year's draft"

driley, can you elaborate on this??

And by 'elaborate' what I want you to do is show pick by pick what the Redskins should have done instead of picking the players that they did.

Corky, this is for you, and take into consideration that had the team drafted D. Jackson, E. Royal, and M. Bennett, it wouldn't have mattered because ZORN WONT THROW THE BALL TO THOSE GUYS.

Heck, he wont even throw the ball to Betts.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 16, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abu

Bean, I'm not gonna go through this again but almost everybody on here, every reporter covering the team, every talk show about the team, and every major football analyst in the country soundly agree that our draft last year was a misuse of picks when we needed so much else so many other places. Stop trying to defend it by just blaming Zorn for not throwing to them. First of all, if its them not being thrown to that is on JC not Zorn, secondly, this draft class was 10 picks, not just the 3 seconds. Other than Horton there has been little impact from the entire class. That could change in the future but it isn't a good class right now.....

no way to get around that no matter how many times you say wait and see, and there's also no way around that, decisions to not draft on the lines forcing us to trade 3 picks from this years draft to get James and Taylor (since Vinny doesn't draft for needs he just gives away future picks for them) relegates us to having to sign free agents again to fill our holes that we didn't fill last year and gave up 3 picks this year in trades that all whiffed and still have nothing to show for them. Vinny was an abject failure, all your wait and see will do is that if Kelly, Thomas, and Davis improve will change it to less of a failure. Essentially Vinny, right now, used 13 picks to get us a decent looking strong safety.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 16, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I don't know maybe we should release Jansen and just bite the bullet ? You don't like heyer yet ? OK that's fine. You don't really think he has peaked with his potential yet do you ? I still think he is worth keeping around simply for his cheap salary. Gotta get a Olineman with our 1st pick regardless though. I'm not sure where (RG, LG, C, or RT) but we need one.

Posted by: dspinx | December 16, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Flounder,

You actually make my argument for me. Thank you.

Posted by: driley | December 16, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

"It's hard to contribute when the coach will not put you on the field, and when he does he will not throw you the ball.

Posted by: Flounder21"

I have never and will not say as of now whether the draft picks this year have been busts.

However, they have not contributed this season, plain and simple. And in particular, Devin Thomas has gotten more than enough of an opportunity. You can make excuses for them, sure, but you can also make excuses for Brandon Lloyd, or David Patten, or Taylor Jacobs, or any other "2nd" WR we've tried to acquire.

We've slowly seen strides from Thomas this year, and hopefully those strides will pick up significantly in the offseason. Fred Davis has flashed ability and athleticism as well. Malcolm Kelly has been praised by coaches and teammates alike, and I thought it was telling that he could be hurt for most of the season, and within two weeks of being healthy, the coaches trusted him more than Thomas to play significant snaps.

We'll see how they turn out.

Posted by: psps23 | December 16, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

I love how folks want to suddenly 'turn things around' with the same-old mismatched players. The roster reflects the multiple coaching changes and attendant desires for guys who'll 'make my system work'. We all know and applauded when Spurrier/Shottenhiemer/Gibbs traded for and got the players who now need to be jettisoned for youth and speed. Those coaches are gone and the mess they left is what lost to the Bengals.

The roster needs to simply be turned over.

Those players who have value (Moss/Cooley) are trade bait for picks-- deal with losing them as we not winning with them now. Trust me when I say the Dolphins talked about trading Taylor well before the season ended- the Skins need to think the same way. Now, they got our 2nd round pick. We need to think the same way.

We all now the Skins have an old, slow team with stars who aren't as super as they like to think they are.

Let Zorn do his thing. Give'm three-five years. He's not the worse coach-- but the Skins are in danger of becoming the worst team if the FO doesn't get realistic real fast.

Things can't get any worse than they are now.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 16, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

how would yall feel about a huge DT in the third round?

Terrence Cody is projected right now as a first rounder, and if you watched Alabama play at all this year you'll know who he is. The guy is just huge.

People are speculating that his combine will be so bad that he falls from first to the third round. Again, this guy is huge and he's quicker than you would think, although to be honest he's not that quick.

He'll plug the middle definitely. He seems like the perfect guy for a 3-4 D, and I'm not too up on all that, would that still work fine with us?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 16, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Flounder/dspinx - I agree Jansen sucks - I'm just not sure Heyer is the long term answer yet.

Samuels is the LT next year.

We need to see over these last 2 games if Rhinehart is the answer at LG cause Kendall is leaving.

Rabach has one or two years left at center, so we should draft a center this year or next to replace him.

Randy Thomas is washed up, but hes gonna be here for a while.

RTackle should be our pick, or one of them if we trade down.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 16, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

And Beantown,

The salient point in my post to you was to say that the 2006 FA class issue is relevant, because of the people who made the evaluations. If they are still making decisions and evaluations then we are not going to draft well, not going to evaluate talent well (ours and other's) and basically we will be stuck treading water with 7 to 9 win seasons. Until the people in the entire scouting/evaluation department are purged who have made these decisions (might as well include the 2008 draft as well) then we really have no hope of improving.

Posted by: driley | December 16, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I agree with MistaMoe, I think this team needs to just get shaken up and keep whatever is still hanging on, but hopefully a lot falls off.

Cooley and Moss, I love 'em both but as he said, we aren't winning with them.


I'm just really sold on the idea that we need a youth INFUSION.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 16, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't mind a DT with the 3rd, but I think our DE situation is MUCH WORSE than our DE situation. I think Griff has 2 decent years left in him. So that means we have a 3headed monster of Griff rotating (keep the old man fresh) with A.Mont & Golston. Versus underacheiving Carter & underachieving J. Taylor. Let's scrap the idea of getting a DT with the 3rd and start thinking a DE. Who knows we might be able to pull a stud DE out of the 3rd ? At least make a conscious effort of shoring up the position.

Posted by: dspinx | December 16, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Nobody on this team has won anything, and none of them deserve to feel safe.

This team needs a major youth infusion.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 16, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Question for you guys

What about next year the offensive line looking like this

Samuels, Rhinehardt,Jansen, Thomas, Heyer

before you call me an idiot hear me out, I know you see jansen in there but I say move him to Center, he was already our back up and truth be told he is probably a better center at this stage of his career than tackle. Also he is to expensive to cut.

Let Jansen start at Center at give Geisenger another year to learn, and bench or cut Rabach.

All while still drafting replacements in the draft.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 16, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Here is the list and how I made my choice.
Doug Williams (1986-89)
Billy Kilmer (1971-78)
Mark Rypien (1986-93)
Joe Theismann (1974-85)
Sonny Jurgensen (1964-74)
Sammy Baugh (1937-51)

First look at the career length in DC. This cut out Doug (sorry mr nice guy.)

Then look at who had HOF level talent when they were playing, which to me brings it down to JoeT Sonny and Sammy Baugh. However Joe is not in the hall. Sorry Joe.

So that brings us to SJ v SB Both had great careers with the team during eras where the role of the QB changed greatly.

Both of them put up staggering numbers for their time but I have to give it to Sammy, the mans NFL records include; All-NFL seven years. . . NFL passing, punting, interception champ, 1943. . .Six-time NFL passing leader. .

The man was basically Dan Merino, John Elway and Joe Montana rolled up into 1 player.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 16, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

"Devin Thomas has gotten more than enough of an opportunity"

Really?? Where?? When?? The last game was a mirco-cosm of the whole year. Throw to Moss, Cooley, Run Portis. If that fails, as it has for WEEKS...Repeat it, because there is no plan B. The rookies were brought in to be EXACTLY THAT, the plan B, but Zorn, or JC simply refuses to go to them. These guys earn accolades all through college, but come here and suddenly they can't play this game? Sorry, I'm not buying that. Like Flound said, its kind of hard to put this on them, when they're not being given the chance. If they were getting the ball thrown to them 5 times a game, and dropping the ball, or catching it and fumbling it, then sure, they stink, but thats just not happening.

Thomas got the ball thrown to him ONCE the last game, but somehow this translates into getting opportunity?? You yourself said that Davis "flashed ability and athleticism" but Davis got it throw to him ONCE. When the ENTIRE LEAGUE knows how to defend your team, wouldn't it be PRUDENT to get the ball to SOMEONE ELSE not named Cooley, Portis, or Moss?? Sorry, but on this VERY BLOG, it was detailed how to defend this team, and yet nothing has changed.

driley, did you answer this yet:

"And by 'elaborate' what I want you to do is show pick by pick what the Redskins should have done instead of picking the players that they did"

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 16, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

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