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Campbell on Growth of Thomas, Kelly

Quarterback Jason Campbell has expressed optimism that the Washington Redskins' offense will be better this season. Of course, with as poorly as the offense performed last season, even a significant boost in production might not be enough to help Washington qualify for the postseason.

The Redskins averaged only 16.6 points - ranking 28th in the league - during the first season of Coach Jim Zorn's version of a West Coast scheme. The attack, which utilized three- and four-receiver sets, was supposed to help Washington have an effective passing game, but Campbell's average of 189.1 yards was 23rd in the NFL.

The offensive line experienced major breakdowns in pass protection late in the season, and top back Clinton Portis faded down the stretch after a strong start. Wide receiver Santana Moss was Campbell's only effective deep target, which limited Zorn's play-calling options.

But Campbell has high expectations this season, in large part, because of wide receivers Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly, who disappointed in their rookie seasons.

"With Devin and Malcolm, we've seen the talent these guys have," he said. "Both of these guys can make plays, they can do things to really help us reach the level we need to as an offense, they've just got to be able to stay on the field, get comfortable and do what they do."

On the first day of the team's three-day minicamp at the beginning of the month, Thomas re-aggravated the right hamstring injury that sidelined him for much of 2008 training camp. Kelly has not participated in the team's offseason schedule as he continues to recover from microfracture surgery on his left knee. Thomas and Kelly are expected to be able to participate in organized training activities in June, the Redskins said.

"Just having those guys out there will be big for us," Campbell said. "We really need both of them to step up and make plays, and you need to have everyone together to start building the chemistry you need for the season.

"I was throwing to Devin a lot when we started the workouts and he was really doing great. Just with route running and understanding where he needed to be on the field ... it was a lot better than last season. He was off to a great start" before the injury.

Campbell was especially impressed with the maturity Thomas, who blogged and tweeted late last week that the hamstring has now healed, has shown this offseason. "When some guys come in that first year, they don't really understand how much work you have to put in each day to be successful," Campbell said. "No matter how much talent you have, you have to push yourself and have your mind in the right place because everybody has talent. I think Devin really took everything that happened last year and learned from it.

Kelly dazzled early during training camp last season as he teamed with Campbell on many long receptions. But his recurring knee problems, which the Redskins were aware of when they drafted him, limited him to only five games and three receptions for 18 yards. The good news for the Redskins is that Kelly "has worked hard to get healthy and get back on the field," Campbell said. "It's tough when you're not healthy to try to play this game, but Malcolm is doing everything he can to get back and help us."

...

Cindy here with a wish for a happy day to mothers everywhere -- and especially to those who also find time to BTGO up here.

By Jason Reid  |  May 10, 2009; 12:34 PM ET
 
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Comments

i hope kelly can stay healthy but it doesnt look good

Posted by: cosmiccatnip1 | May 10, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Tough draft last year..THREE 2nd rounders with hardly any return..If Cerrato had gotten three OTs, at least one would be available to start by now..If Zorn goes dink and dunk with his play-calling this year, his grass is sassafras..

Posted by: frak | May 10, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

"Quarterback Jason Campbell has expressed optimism that the Washington Redskins' offense will be better this season. Of course, with as poorly as the offense performed last season, even a significant boost in production might not be enough to help Washington qualify for the postseason."
-------------------------------------------
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but what is this crap. If I recall the team was 8-8 last year. If a significant boost in production meant two more games they would have made the playoffs.

Posted by: lifelongfan | May 10, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I know this is supposed to be a Skins blog but the Caps lost in OT last night and the WaPo is reporting that Potty is the goat when it should be the NHL. The Caps had to play back-to-back games because of a Yanni concert that had been previously scheduled. Why couldn't the NHL either schedule around the Yanni concert or get Yanni to move his concert? It might have been a little easier to swallow if it had been a Mastodon concert, but Yanni? Yuck!

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 10, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

"Quarterback Jason Campbell has expressed optimism that the Washington Redskins' offense will be better this season. Of course, with as poorly as the offense performed last season, even a significant boost in production might not be enough to help Washington qualify for the postseason."
-------------------------------------------
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but what is this crap. If I recall the team was 8-8 last year. If a significant boost in production meant two more games they would have made the playoffs.

Posted by: lifelongfan | May 10, 2009 1:05 PM

Plus with the upgrade in the defense there will be more TOs, which means more points scored from this source as well which also has to be fuctored in.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 10, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse


sure do miss the 2nd round pick squandered by the FO last year when they didn't trust him to hold the fort when Daniels went down.

Posted by: TheCork | May 9, 2009 7:07 PM |

That pick was Pat White, QB/Receiver, from WVU. We don't need him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

So, T_E seems to think that had the Redskins kept that pick, they would have been somehow required to pick the same guy Miami did? I GUESS because Pat White was slotted as best available there....

That kind of thinking sounds familiar...Oh wait, I know, LAST YEAR's draft...Vinny, saying the reason he took THREE receivers was because his charts dictated it to be so. He had no other choice...

And earlier this week, T_E claimed to be an anonymous source for a RI story, one he tried to screw up by giving misleading info to the Jasons?

Hey kids...I do believe T_E is none other than our beloved Redskins EVP, Vinny Cerrato.

Posted by: TheCork | May 10, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Cooley gets all Hollywood frou-frou and Yoder gets all Alice Cooper eyeliner!! Lighten up, Sandy, baby!! Make my funk the Clinton P-Funk!!


http://chriscooley47.blogspot.com/

Posted by: frak | May 10, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

The Caps had to play back-to-back games because of a Yanni concert that had been previously scheduled. Why couldn't the NHL either schedule around the Yanni concert or get Yanni to move his concert? It might have been a little easier to swallow if it had been a Mastodon concert, but Yanni? Yuck!

Posted by: AntonChigurh

So Pittsburgh didn't have to play back to back?

Actually, the solution is easy. Pick a goon, have him high stick Yanni into retirement. problem solved.

Posted by: TheCork | May 10, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

What exactly is this thing you call hockey?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | May 10, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

The offensive line experienced major breakdowns in pass protection late in the season, and top back Clinton Portis faded down the stretch after a strong start.
===========================================

Does late in the season mean from game 9 on?

Not to mention, Portis was injured in the knee during that same game.

Come on people, we all watched the same season.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 10, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Need Devin Thomas to step up like the saints go marchin' in..I don't see Kelly lasting through training camp , unfortunately..If Snyder moved the team to LA, they would swiftly disintegrate into Hollywood marketing oblivion..

Posted by: frak | May 10, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Campbell sounds like he was wearing a rose colored facemask

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 10, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Campbell sounds like he was wearing a rose colored facemask

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 10, 2009 1:42 PM

He's still got SanHAMMY Moss, ARE, and JThrash... he's got Snyderatto breathing down his back.... he's got a broken O-line being cobbled back together by guys whose previous teams don't want them back for various reasons...

He knows last year's rooks have the greatest probability of making this year's offense any different than last year's. Other than a second year of continuity--which is extremely important, mind you--there's nothing else really new on offense.

Without that rose colored facemask, he'd probably be pulling a Cutler-style temper tantrum.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 10, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I am one that does not think highly of the West Coast Offense. The success of the West Coast Offense depends on one Major thing that Teams overlook that employ it.

A strong fleet footed receiver (Jerry Rice) that catches short passes and rotinely breaks them for long gains.

That ability is rare in receivers and Teams and coaches that donot understand that always come up short, cause without that talented receiver the offense is just West coast Dink and Dunk.

If Zorn doesn't realize that he has to tweak that West Coast Dink and Dunk to his Quarterback and a more traditional down the field approach, his Goose is cooked.

There are no Jerry Rice Types on this Team. Throwing the ball down the field fits the receivers that we have.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 10, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

frak: "Tough draft last year..THREE 2nd rounders with hardly any return..If Cerrato had gotten three OTs, at least one would be available to start by now.."

What makes you sure that Thomas, Kelly, or Davis won't be available to start this season?

OTs often take longer to mature than WRs or TEs.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 10, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

LarryInClintonMD-

Agree 100%, but even McNabb knows to throw past the first down marker on third down, Zorn seemed totally dependent on the YAC which never transpired and called plays under the first down marker consistently on third down. Not too many Rice-types in the NFL that can consistently run that slant route into No Man's Land without getting injured regularly-Moss and Owens can't do it, and they're the best..Maybe Boldin is tough enough to do a lesser Rice imitation, but he'd be expensive..

Posted by: frak | May 10, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Samson151-

Hope you're right, sometimes its better to shut up and be patient, the columns will fall..

Posted by: frak | May 10, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

"...with as poorly as the offense performed last season, even a significant boost in production might not be enough to help Washington qualify for the postseason."

I dunno about this claim.

If the team had scored just 7 extra points last year year, it would've finished 12-4.

If inceased production this season is 10-7 extra points with even better defense, maybe the skins 12-4.

And if you go 12-4 and don't make the playoffs, something is wrong.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 10, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

frak: "Tough draft last year..THREE 2nd rounders with hardly any return..If Cerrato had gotten three OTs, at least one would be available to start by now.."

What makes you sure that Thomas, Kelly, or Davis won't be available to start this season?


_Are you sure? What makes you so sure? I'm not so sure.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | May 10, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"Kelly dazzled early during training camp last season as he teamed with Campbell on many long receptions."

Maybe this is the key.

The team should tell M Kelly it has 16 practices this fall, and he should show up ready to dazzle.

And on another note, is Kelly just another in a recent line of University of Oklahoma football players that underwhelm as pros?

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 10, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I thought the title was "Campbell expresses optimism about Kelly, Thomas" not "WaPo editorializes about why the redskins offense sucks". I wouldn't have read it had I known, just keep the titles informative please. Thanks!

Posted by: AdamCr | May 10, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Larryinclintonmd

Truth be told, the team has been trying to acquire an elite wideout for some time, now.

That's why it traded for B Lloyd, tried to get Ocho Stinko, brought in Randle "Fair Catch" El, hoped to move up to get Calvin Johnson in the draft, and drafted Kelly/Thomas last year.

Our efforts to secure wideouts are the opposite of our attempts to draft offensive linemen: and we are mediocre at both positions.

That's why the FO has reached into the scrap heap and pulled out the likes of Roydell Williams, Shelton, and several other NFL hopeful fellows who, as of last month, were probably out selling real estate or delivering FEDEX packages to someone who owns it.

We've reached out to get that special guy to catch the ball. We just haven't received him yet.

(INSERT bad pun groan.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 10, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

mistamoe: "If the team had scored just 7 extra points last year year, it would've finished 12-4.If inceased production this season is 10-7 extra points with even better defense, maybe the skins 12-4."

I read this wrong. I thought you meant we missed 7 extra point attempts... now I gotcha.

Of course it would depend on when the seven additional points got scores.

The thing is, when a team sets out to fix the holes that sunk last season, they often spring new leaks that require patching. Like DE, one of our moderately strong areas last year, until Daniels went down unexpectedly.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 10, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Thomas went back to work the Monday after training camp and said his hammy was fine.....did we purposely leave that fact out?

Posted by: Jason10 | May 10, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Meant Minicamp in the previous post...

Posted by: Jason10 | May 10, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Cindy, nice hamster shot up there. Pretty darn cute.

Devin Thomas... I guess we'll know when we know, but I want him to bust his ass and become our #2 receiver this season. We need him.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 10, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"I don't see Kelly lasting through training camp"


So far, we haven't seen Kelly last through anything.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 10, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

even a significant boost in production might not be enough to help Washington qualify for the postseason.
--------------------------------

I won't harp on it since its already been pointed out but what the hell is his definition of significant. Acting like we were the Detroit Lions last year. We have problems but were a .500 team last year. A better D and any improvement on offense should get us to 10 wins.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | May 10, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Typical WaPo TRASH. Overly negative and inaccurate to boot.

Negative is ok, if not myopic. Inaccurate is inexcusable. Journalism???? LMFAO at your WEAK attempts to meet the lowest of standards.

Your reporting is a joke. At least you are doing the newspaper thing so you can't F up some real job with real consequences.

Kelly has been participating; he has not been doing the longer routes.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | May 10, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

From an article at the Washington Redskins website:

***Asked about Kelly, Zorn added: “Each day he has done a little more. He’s showed that he’s bursting off the line of scrimmage now.

“We’re keeping him from doing some of the extended routes, but he’s doing some of the quicker cuts and the little accelerations.”***

Maybe its propaganda and Kelly really wasn't doing any work. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | May 10, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

frak: "Tough draft last year..THREE 2nd rounders with hardly any return..If Cerrato had gotten three OTs, at least one would be available to start by now.."

What makes you sure that Thomas, Kelly, or Davis won't be available to start this season?

OTs often take longer to mature than WRs or TEs.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 10, 2009 2:31 PM

Samson, what evidence do you have of tackles taking longer to mature. Everything I've seen in 30+ years of watching football says otherwise.

frak, picking 3 tackles instead of receivers would have been nice in theory only.

In 2008 ZERO offensive tackles were selected in round 2. Sam Baker was picked at 21 where the 'skins traded out of and Duane Brown was picked five slots later. So it seems likely that FO willingly passed on those guys. Then there was only one guy taken before Chad Rinehart (John Greco earlier in round 3).

Hardly a solution. Furthermore, you can't exactly hide 2nd and 3rd string offensive tackles on the roster.

Posted by: bangkokben | May 10, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

bangbokben: "Samson, what evidence do you have of tackles taking longer to mature. Everything I've seen in 30+ years of watching football says otherwise."

I don't know if anybody keeps stats on that sort of thing league-wide, but I'm under the impression that WR, like RB and DB, is a position that depends disproportionately on instincts and physical talent, and so is easier to learn, provided the player works at it...

OTs in the pros often have a substantial learning curve, particularly if they come out of colleges that don't use pro-style sets. I know I've heard comments to the effect that USC OTs get drafted higher than others because of their experience in NFL-type blocking schemes.

There are always exceptions, of course, which is why I said 'often' instead of 'always'. Chris Samuels would have been one.

I'm surprised to hear you've seen evidence of the opposite.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 10, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Hardly a solution. Furthermore, you can't exactly hide 2nd and 3rd string offensive tackles on the roster.
Posted by: bangkokben | May 10, 2009 4:39 PM

Excellent point. B/U Beef does not participate on special teams or really increase your overall team athleticism. B/U players must necessarily be athletic enough to run down the field and make tackles OR serve as open field blockers on returns. Over filling the roster with younger guys at LB/DB/RB/WR/TE is the way to go once the starting roles are met. Ergo, you cant go 3 deep at OT.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | May 10, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

To LIFELONGFAN..
If a "significant boost in production meant two more games they would have made the playoffs.".
And your point..?? Brilliant.. Maybe beating the worst defensive team in the NFC last year (Rams) might of been a good start to staying out of last place.... Or, if it makes you feel better they came in 4th in their division.

JLAC just reviews the facts (poor offense, etc).... And thankfully he doesnt give a ratzazz about free press tickets to FedEX field..So, Snydee cannot influence him..
Visit Redskins.Com aka the Snyder newsletter and/or watch Larry Michaels.. if you dont want to read/see the brutal reality of a team that went 2-6 after going 6-2...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Quarterback Jason Campbell has expressed optimism that the Washington Redskins' offense will be better this season. Of course, with as poorly as the offense performed last season, even a significant boost in production might not be enough to help Washington qualify for the postseason."
-------------------------------------------
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but what is this crap. If I recall the team was 8-8 last year. If a significant boost in production meant two more games they would have made the playoffs.

Posted by: lifelongfan | May 10, 2009 1:05 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 10, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Campbell sounds like he was wearing a rose colored facemask

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 10, 2009 1:42 PM

He's still got SanHAMMY Moss, ARE, and JThrash... he's got Snyderatto breathing down his back.... he's got a broken O-line being cobbled back together by guys whose previous teams don't want them back for various reasons...

He knows last year's rooks have the greatest probability of making this year's offense any different than last year's. Other than a second year of continuity--which is extremely important, mind you--there's nothing else really new on offense.

Without that rose colored facemask, he'd probably be pulling a Cutler-style temper tantrum.


Posted by: Alan4 | May 10, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Does Campbell pee ice cream or something....how is it..many on this blog point to everything except Campbell...i know its not ALL JC's fault but c'mon...you can't hold on the balme and errors on everyone else...campbell is just as much at fault as anyone else...but JC is a HOFamer...what do I know?

Posted by: leevi98 | May 10, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

I don't see Kelly lasting through training camp"


So far, we haven't seen Kelly last through anything.


Posted by: MistaMoe

I wasn't happy about Kellys injury problems either, but can we stop being so snarky with the guy, and give him a chance to get healthy and contribute? Maybe by mid summer the guy will be feeling good and hit his stride and give us a good sophmore season.

Posted by: kenboy1 | May 10, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Zoezcest.. Trademark that quick.. "Rose Colored Facemask" me likey..

I have said this before.. and I am more convinced than ever as the Boldin's and the Holts come and go without a sniff from the FO......
Snyder is sandbagging for 2010 and a new Offensive minded HC.
200 Million committed to the Defense in 09 (Draft and FA) and zero to the offense (oops except a Dockery that was waived from the worst OLine in the AFC).
Admittedly it doesnt make sense on any level, especially if you want to increase the value of JC before the October trade deadline.. But Snyder never makes sense..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Campbell sounds like he was wearing a rose colored facemask

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 10, 2009 1:42 PM

He's still got SanHAMMY Moss, ARE, and JThrash... he's got Snyderatto breathing down his back.... he's got a broken O-line being cobbled back together by guys whose previous teams don't want them back for various reasons...

He knows last year's rooks have the greatest probability of making this year's offense any different than last year's. Other than a second year of continuity--which is extremely important, mind you--there's nothing else really new on offense.

Without that rose colored facemask, he'd probably be pulling a Cutler-style temper tantrum.


Posted by: Alan4 | May 10, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Does Campbell pee ice cream or something....how is it..many on this blog point to everything except Campbell...i know its not ALL JC's fault but c'mon...you can't hold on the balme and errors on everyone else...campbell is just as much at fault as anyone else...but JC is a HOFamer...what do I know?

Posted by: leevi98 | May 10, 2009 5:56 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 10, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

I've heard the dude that fixed Kelly's knee is the best in the business... they say he's a miracle worker (he was shown on Real Sports with Gumble's tired ass)... he brings people back from the dead

Posted by: noseman4681 | May 10, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

The persistent voices of "doomsday" Redskins pseudo-fans is deafening on these boards. They get fed pseudo-information and hands-up-the-crack analysis from JLC and his cronnies on RI. Then they mentally masturbate on the negative data to their ends' satisfaction!!

Redskins were 8-8 despite all the "football-crime" committed by FO. Had they won tow easy games, 10-6 in the playoffs.

This bunch thinks anything south of 16-0 is Snyder's fault!!!

HEY "NEGATIVE" REDSKINS FANS: YOU ARE LEGENDS IN YOUR OWN MIND. NOW BACK TO WOW!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | May 10, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

What's the latest on Buzbee? How long do we keep Todd Collins? Who will be the Kick Returner and the Punt Returner? Does the answer to the last question seal Cartwrights fate? I think it does.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | May 10, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Free agents with 2009 team not determined -
http://tinyurl.com/r7ayjw.

Posted by: fwroy | May 10, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

"I don't know if anybody keeps stats on that sort of thing league-wide, but I'm under the impression that WR, like RB and DB, is a position that depends disproportionately on instincts and physical talent, and so is easier to learn, provided the player works at it...

OTs in the pros often have a substantial learning curve, particularly if they come out of colleges that don't use pro-style sets. I know I've heard comments to the effect that USC OTs get drafted higher than others because of their experience in NFL-type blocking schemes.

There are always exceptions, of course, which is why I said 'often' instead of 'always'. Chris Samuels would have been one.

I'm surprised to hear you've seen evidence of the opposite."

Posted by: Samson151

Ive consistently heard the opposite too. While Rbs often have great success as rookies, WR is known as one of the toughest positions to adjust to in the NFL. Wrs cant simply run by or outmuscle guys like they did in college. They have to develop AND understand route running, timing, how not to tip stuff to DBs.

If you look at the last two years you had OTs like Joe Thomas and Clady step in and make the Pro Bowl as rookies. I dont know of any rookie Wrs that have. In fact, I cant think of a rookie WR who really came in at a Pro Bowl level since R Moss or Boldin. Sure some guys like Desean Jackson and Eddie Royal last year have played well but I think the evidence would strongly suggest that OTs, particularly 1st/2nd round OTs, develop faster than 1st/2nd round Wrs.

Posted by: VaTerp1 | May 10, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

This bunch thinks anything south of 16-0 is Snyder's fault!!!

HEY "NEGATIVE" REDSKINS FANS: YOU ARE LEGENDS IN YOUR OWN MIND. NOW BACK TO WOW!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | May 10, 2009 6:25 PM
===============================

Happy Mother's Day, Danny's Mom!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 10, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

"I don't know if anybody keeps stats on that sort of thing league-wide, but I'm under the impression that WR, like RB and DB, is a position that depends disproportionately on instincts and physical talent, and so is easier to learn, provided the player works at it...

OTs in the pros often have a substantial learning curve, particularly if they come out of colleges that don't use pro-style sets. I know I've heard comments to the effect that USC OTs get drafted higher than others because of their experience in NFL-type blocking schemes.

There are always exceptions, of course, which is why I said 'often' instead of 'always'. Chris Samuels would have been one.

I'm surprised to hear you've seen evidence of the opposite."

Posted by: Samson151

Ive consistently heard the opposite too. While Rbs often have great success as rookies, WR is known as one of the toughest positions to adjust to in the NFL. Wrs cant simply run by or outmuscle guys like they did in college. They have to develop AND understand route running, timing, how not to tip stuff to DBs. You often hear people talking about the 3rd year WR theory where Wrs tend to break out in their 3rd seasons.

If you look at the last two years you had OTs like Joe Thomas and Clady step in and make the Pro Bowl as rookies. I dont know of any rookie Wrs that have. In fact, I cant think of a rookie WR who really came in at a Pro Bowl level since R Moss or Boldin. Sure some guys like Desean Jackson and Eddie Royal last year have played well but I think the evidence would strongly suggest that OTs, particularly 1st/2nd round OTs, develop faster than 1st/2nd round Wrs.

Posted by: VaTerp1 | May 10, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

leevi, I don't know of care if JC17 pees ice cream. But I do know it's not unusual for an NFL QB to make a big jump in performance in their 2nd or 3rd complete year starting under the same system (see: Hasselbeck, Matt).

It's far less common for a RB or WR to suddenly get markedly better as they approach 30 (or in the case of James Thrash, 35). Or OLs well into their 30s with a history of serious injuries.

Naturally, JC17 gets a share of the blame for last year's problems. But with all the hammy/groin pulls at WR. CP breaking down, and O-line injuries, I give JC17 a big fat mulligan.

I want to see what he does behind a (weven moderately!) consistent O-line with more than one wideout other teams worry about (actually, we saw this at 6-2 last year). Last year's rookie WRs give the offense the best chance of really doing something different from last year.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 10, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

The skins are really not that far off. All the talk about the front office this team has been blown out twice in 5 years. I think we are one of the only teams that can say that so i think we should give the front office and some of the draft picks time to get team on the right track from a winning standpoint.

Posted by: wattsicon | May 10, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

What makes you sure that Thomas, Kelly, or Davis won't be available to start this season?

OTs often take longer to mature than WRs or TEs.

Posted by: Samson151 |

It's not unreasonable for receivers or Linemen to take a couple of years to development. It's not unreasonable to rebuild the team through judicious reconstruction at key positions through the draft.

What was INSANE last year was making "build for the future moves" then panicking and trading picks for a washed up DE like Taylor.

Pick a plan and stay with it, instead of flitting around like an ADD mosquito.

LAST YEAR'S DRAFT: Build for the future.

AUGUST: Trade away hunk of future with draft picks for overpaid dancer with one, maybe two years left.

WINTER: Revert to Overpaying for FAs, just like the bad old days.

By NOT trading next year's draft picks, looks like things are going back to "build thru the draft" again....

Posted by: TheCork | May 10, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Does Campbell pee ice cream or something....how is it..many on this blog point to everything except Campbell...i know its not ALL JC's fault but c'mon...you can't hold on the balme and errors on everyone else...campbell is just as much at fault as anyone else...but JC is a HOFamer...what do I know?

Posted by: leevi98 | May 10, 2009

I'll point to Campbell for you.

He cant' throw worth a damm from flat on his back.

Take away his running game and his pass protection, and he's a mediocre QB.

Give him three rookie receivers who aren't any good, cut the two tall receievers Vinny brought in, Hammy up his lone deep threat, make a 50-year-old special teams guy his third receiver--and he is NO Hall of FAMER.

Never mind it took Zorn three eyars to develop Hasselbeck, nor that Campbell went half the season without an INT.

Look. It's an 11 man game. Campbell played very well when the other ten were healthy and performing.

When and if they are again--if he stinks up the field?--then return with your contempt for his talent. I'll join you.

Blocking. Running. Receivers. Without them Unitas, Marino, Manning, Luckman, Jurgensen, Aikman, and the rest look bad.


Posted by: TheCork | May 10, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Cork -- on the same page. I liked the Taylor move because I saw the Skins doing a 'win now' thing. The prior year, they'd finished very strong and clearly had that elusive chemistry that makes good teams great.

But they didn't make any other moves (my 'kick the dead horse til he dies' suggestion was Boldin). When you keep all your starters and trade for Taylor, its about winning now. When you bring a HC who's never even been a coordinator and keep all 10 rookies you drafted on the roster, its about building for the future.

When people criticize mgmt, its that type of stuff that tells the real story

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 10, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

This is it for JC it's put up time. Plain and simple.Been long enough.

Posted by: ridgely1 | May 10, 2009 8:17 PM | Report abuse

vaterp1: "Ive consistently heard the opposite too. While Rbs often have great success as rookies, WR is known as one of the toughest positions to adjust to in the NFL. Wrs cant simply run by or outmuscle guys like they did in college. They have to develop AND understand route running, timing, how not to tip stuff to DBs. You often hear people talking about the 3rd year WR theory where Wrs tend to break out in their 3rd seasons."

Now that I've heard too -- about WRs developing in their third seasons. Don't know if it's true, but have heard it. So it's probably worth a look.

Looking at the '08 draft, the first question that arises is why there weren't any WRs taken in Round 1. Does that mean the teams felt none of the WRs were worth a 1st round selection (in which case they were pretty obviously wrong), or that there were so many of roughly the same caliber that they could pick one up in the 2nd while filling some other need in the first (more likely, I suppose).

The second question, why were there no OTs drafted in the 2nd round? Answer there is fairly simple -- because seven of them went in the first. But does this mean all the good ones were taken by the time the Skins got around to drafting? That also seems likely. Because the third round yielded only 3 tackles, and the fourth two. Washington's arrived with pick 96.

If Vinny had stayed at 21, he would have had a shot at Sam Baker or Duane Brown. The Falcons got a lot of praise for their foresight in drafting Baker, but he only suited up for 8 games, starting 5, so his impact wasn't great. Brown started all 16 for the Houston team -- I don't know how successful he was, but he did start.

The WR class, on the other hand, was pretty much there for the taking. The Skins could have drafted Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson, or Jordy Nelson, and passed. Those players contributed substantially to their team's success in the first season. They could also have picked John Greco, a tackle, a round early. John started 1 game for the Rams.

I doubt I've answered the question. This was almost surely an atypical draft. All but one of the tackles who could have played in their first year were gone by the time the Skins' first pick rolled around at 21; maybe that's why they traded down. Obviously, the receiver class was way undervalued, and not just by the Skins.


Posted by: Samson151 | May 10, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Blocking. Running. Receivers. Without them Unitas, Marino, Manning, Luckman, Jurgensen, Aikman, and the rest look bad.


Posted by: TheCork | May 10, 2009

Jurgenson was effective statistically with just blocking and receivers .. and even the Redskins made do without running under Gibbs. The difference is in the winning. Your defense is more effective, you garner more wins with a running attack that wears the other team down, both physically and emotionally.

It really isn't Campbell. Its a combination of a rapidly aging, eroding line, plus a feature back who has now seen the coach who traded for him leave and probably wonders (like many of us here) if the Redskins will ever win again. Not a good attitude for the starting feature back to have. And, yes, to some extent Campbell has to feel a bit of this too. He was selected by Gibbs and company as well.

Posted by: priestholmes | May 10, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Anyway let's hope the old saw is correct and at least two of the 08 second round choices are going to blossom by Year 3.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 10, 2009 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, JC17 does deserve some of the blame.

I'll never forget his first pass last year against the jints. He rolled out of a perfect pocket right into Justin Tuck for the sack.

I like the Zorn dodgeball drill, cuz that is one thing JC17 needs to work on: Pocket Movement.

Posted by: Vicc | May 10, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

To LIFELONGFAN..
If a "significant boost in production meant two more games they would have made the playoffs.".
And your point..?? Brilliant.. Maybe beating the worst defensive team in the NFC last year (Rams) might of been a good start to staying out of last place.... Or, if it makes you feel better they came in 4th in their division.

JLAC just reviews the facts (poor offense, etc).... And thankfully he doesnt give a ratzazz about free press tickets to FedEX field..So, Snydee cannot influence him..
Visit Redskins.Com aka the Snyder newsletter and/or watch Larry Michaels.. if you dont want to read/see the brutal reality of a team that went 2-6 after going 6-2...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 10, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse
-------------------------------------------
Sorry that no one is allowed to have an opinion except those that think the team sucks and will always suck. I am not looking for homerism just facts but it would be nice not to have a negative slant on every single item. Maybe there have been some postive entries but they are so few and far between that they are easy to forget. My point was that the team was 8-8 despite a poor offense. So in theory a "significantly" improved offense would lead to more points and more wins. The Redskins averaged 16.6 pts/gm last year. If the number had been 21 they had a chance to win 4 more games (I not saying they would have won but there was a chance). Forgive me for having some optimism and not looking for the negative in everything. I guess I find it hard to give up on the team when they haven't even played a game this year.

Posted by: lifelongfan | May 10, 2009 8:50 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 10, 2009 2:26 PM

Dude. Because of the font used for the blog, I didn't know whether you was a chick named Larryln Clinton who was a doctor (MD) or whether you was some stiff named Larry living in Clinton, Maryland. Lower case "l" and upper case "I" are indistinuishable with that font.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 10, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

"MIAMI -- The Miami Dolphins are renaming their home Landshark Stadium ..."

Heh, heh. Must have brought a smile to the lips of Chevy Chase when he saw that.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 10, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

(god, did you see that picture of the hysterical madwoman Amy Poeller on the front page of the Post?? I'm a sick man, don't come near..) This dude we just signed from the Titans might work out, and if Jansen's feets don't fail me now, and the feets of men are do not avail, Skins might be proper..
http://www.nfl.com/players/roydellwilliams/profile?id=WIL514334

Posted by: frak | May 10, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

From John Clayton, ESPN, on Jets recent minicamp:

"But anyone doubting Sanchez' ability to win over the coaching staff and Jets fans is wearing a blindfold. Sanchez showed everyone at the minicamp that he can make all the throws. More than that, he showed leadership. The story of how he got a good portion of the offense together at the hotel Thursday night to go over the playbook is a classic example of how Sanchez's head might be more important than his arm."

Converstion overheard by RI in Jim Zorn's office during the Skins recent minicamp:

"Coach, I'm not sure how this play-action thing is supposed to work even though you have explained it to me before. Could you draw another picture? Thanks."

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 10, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

From John Clayton, ESPN, on Jets recent minicamp:

"But anyone doubting Sanchez' ability to win over the coaching staff and Jets fans is wearing a blindfold. Sanchez showed everyone at the minicamp that he can make all the throws. More than that, he showed leadership. The story of how he got a good portion of the offense together at the hotel Thursday night to go over the playbook is a classic example of how Sanchez's head might be more important than his arm."

Well, if his arm can't make the throws then his head can get him a coaching job and not much else. I guess we'll see. I'm not sorry we didn't get him.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | May 10, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Mark Sanchez = Chad Pennington 2.0

Posted by: Vicc | May 10, 2009 9:59 PM | Report abuse


'...can we stop being so snarky with Malcolm Kelly?...the guy will be feeling good and hit his stride and give us a good sophmore season.'

I'll stop being 'snarky' if Malcolm Kelly gives us the numbers from his last sophomore season at Oklahoma U:


Malcolm Kelly
2006 62 993 16.0 73 10 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0


Catch 62 balls, 10 touchdowns....yeah, I'll stop being snarky if those numbers from his last sophomore season get put up this fall.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 10, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Landshark Stadium

Thing is, Landshark Beer basically sucks.

And who names a place where dolphins play after sharks anyways?

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 10, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

And who names a place where dolphins play after sharks anyways?

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 10, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

lol.

Posted by: Vicc | May 10, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Hope springs eternal with RI nation. But let's just take a look at the painful progression I have seen each year over last 5 yrs:

1) Step 1: RI nation takes a sip of the koolaid, and believes it has the best off-season and/or draft.

Counterpoint: I believe AH was a huge signing, but offset at least somewhat bit by other losses, plus the collective further aging of the team as a whole, which affects us more than most teams. Meanwhile, on the draft, the consensus draft grades had us worse than Eagles and Giants for 90% of the experts (although thankfully better than erratic Cowboys). So while we can be happy about BO, let's be honest: 2 other teams in our division that were better than us probably got at least as much better, and potentially a significant amount more, than the Redskins did.

Step 2: RI nation starts in a bit stronger with the koolaid, and believes that 'it will be different from last year, because we had key injuries'

Counterpoint: a) yes, it will be different - because it will be a different set of players that get hurt this year. You can't plan for a perfect magical injury free season. Put this another way: the Giants didn't have Osi last year. He will be there this year. Is that better than the AH upgrade? Probably not, because the Giants have quality backups and didn't suffer as much as we invariably do. Is Osi's return better than drafting Orakpu? Yes, by a lot - if you don't believe it than try trading Orakpu for Osi - I will enjoy the reaction to that idea. I don't imagine you could trade him for Tuck either.
b) We have less depth and so certainly can't expect to have fewer injuries than other teams. If we had the same amount, that would amount to a huge victory, but one that we seldom win.


Posted by: zornskins2 | May 10, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse


Step 3: RI nation hears reports from minicamp/OTA/training camp and believe that we will be better because player X (Sleepy, JC17, Heyer, etc.) is getting better. Now the koolaid is being slammed down.

Counterpoint: of course they are getting better, and should (for younger players at least). But are we the only team in the league where players get better every year? No, and in fact we have fewer younger progressing players so we are not going to 'beat the curve' on this one. Put it another way: if you were placing $5,000 on the line as a bet, would you rather be counting on DeSean Jackson being improved next year, or one of our 2nd round picks who combined for like 200 yards recieving? Or Chad Rheinhart vs.Mike McGlynn? JC17 vs. BBM?

Step 4: Preseason rankings come out and Redskins are projected to finish 8-8 (except by Thiesman who is always angling for Redskins media jobs); hamsters go nuts and claim that all (except Theisman) hate the Redskins for some unknown reason.

Counterpoint: 8-8 was the consensus call (as well as 4th place finish last year). Experts were right on both, RI hamsters wrong.

Step 5: Season continues. Due to massively outspending everyone, Redskins are still competitive. But they go 8-8, or 10-6, and either a) barely squak into playoffs and lose or b) don't. If a), hamsters tell you about how wild card teams like Cardinals or Steelers can go all the way, and/or if b) just note that if the football had bounced slightly differently, that 8-8 season could have been 10-6, Redskins would have been in playoffs, back to a) etc.

Counterpoint: not much needed here, except to point out that Patriots/Steelers/Colts/Giants have won 7 of last 8, and that these organizations are generally regarding as conducting themselves massively different from Snyderatto regime. Oh, and to those that convince themselves that 8-8 could easily have been 10-6: sure, and if Neil Rackers wasn't 2 ft wide and some other things, it could have been 6-10.


Posted by: zornskins2 | May 10, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse


Step 6: Return to step 1. Optionally, spend some time trashing Jasno (most of of it well deserved, but I think the guy gets treated like SJK and reacts as 90% of humans would) instead of noticing that this is an annual story.

Redskins still sell out, so maybe step 7 should be included: Snyder sees financial results, convinces self he is doing it right and/or laughs all the way to the bank. And/or, hire a new coach/offensive consultant/etc. to create excitement. And/or, believes some of the above and believes that 1 more plash would have been the difference (as a fan I prefer to believe this one but not 100% sure)

When I started posting on RI 3 yrs ago I was not quite this cynical. But I am hard-pressed to get out of the cycle I have seen so many times.

Go ahead and lump me in the haters, but if you want to be more accurate, lump me in with the depressed fans who once had a proud tradition and are not as excited as they used to be.

zornskins

Posted by: zornskins2 | May 10, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Counterpoint: 8-8 was the consensus call (as well as 4th place finish last year). Experts were right on both, RI hamsters wrong.

-Actually most of us predicted 8-8 or 9-7, pretty close wouldn't you say?

The unfortunate part of this is that I agree with a lot of what you say but also note that much of it is if/then type stuff which really means nothing UNTIL it actually happens. The injury stuff and which players for which teams improve at which rate are unknowns. There is an equal chance that DeSean Jackson gets his knee caved in preseason as anyone else so... What I like to do is assume that everyone has equal injuries and blah, blah, blah and think positively until the wheels fall off. It is widely believed that our front office is inept (I subscribe) but I believe they want to win and try to throw money at the problem instead of turning it over to people who know.

Anyways, your cynicism is certainly understandable (I have been following this team for far too long to think we are going to win it all any time soon) but I prefer to be positive until we hit the wall.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | May 10, 2009 10:58 PM | Report abuse

rashard lewis just left his man wide open to try to double Pierce when he had try to shoot over D Howard from nearly 3pt range. Davis hit like a 12 footer with 00 on the clock.what a mental lapse! lucky arse celtics. Hail Skins!

Posted by: jenksredskins | May 10, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Big baby shoved some 12 year old , highlarious

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 10, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

scampbell: thanks for the optimism. Much easier than what I am reflecting in. I always enjoy your comments. Beware: I will drink Koolaid soon but just had an off day probably. HTTR

zornskins

Posted by: zornskins2 | May 10, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

dude..its hard to be positive when decisions on this "17 years since last SB appearance" team are so odd. How did Snyder watch the Seattle playoff 2 years ago when Heyer was the subsititute and just played matador to Patrick Kearney of the Seahawks. Kearney broke the playoff sack record.. Collins had 1 second to throw on every 3rd and long. Heyer, as a rookie, had no idea what he was doing..
How did Danny watch that and not select at least 2 OL guys in the first 4 picks of the 08 Draft?

How did Danny watch the Ravens game last year when the Skins were so overmatched on the OLine that Madden AND THE RAVENS were concerned for their well being. Madden remarked over and over how sad it was to see the Skins line getting manhandled. So, if Danny saw this too, why not at least, 2 OL guys in the early rounds of the 09 draft..??
Ah...but then they picked up Dockery who was waived from the worst OLine in the AFC.. 38 sacks allowed (sounds familiar). Buffalo willingly ate 3+ million dollars just to dump him. Tbe paper there says it was one of Buffalo's worst FA acquisition who "quit playing" in 08. Oh, dont forget Williams.. 400 lbs and hasnt taken a snap in 5 years...

So "lifelong".. its frustrating to see consistant bonehead decisions out of Redskins park for the last 10 years of Snyvinny. Thank gawd for Houston Texans and the Lions.. Our non-SB appearance record in 17 years is 3rd only to them..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Sorry that no one is allowed to have an opinion except those that think the team sucks and will always suck. I am not looking for homerism just facts but it would be nice not to have a negative slant on every single item. Maybe there have been some postive entries but they are so few and far between that they are easy to forget. My point was that the team was 8-8 despite a poor offense. So in theory a "significantly" improved offense would lead to more points and more wins. The Redskins averaged 16.6 pts/gm last year. If the number had been 21 they had a chance to win 4 more games (I not saying they would have won but there was a chance). Forgive me for having some optimism and not looking for the negative in everything. I guess I find it hard to give up on the team when they haven't even played a game this year.

Posted by: lifelongfan | May 10, 2009 8:50 PM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 11, 2009 12:02 AM | Report abuse

JC17 ranked 19th in the NFL in passing (QB rating) last year. David Garrard (Jags) ranked 20th, and his team finished 5-11.

The Jags D (ranked #17) was worse than the Skins, but they responded by spending both first-day draft picks on the O-line--taking OTs Eugene Monroe (#8 overall) and Eben Britton (#39 overall). They also signed 34 year old OT Tra Thomas (3xPro-Bowl, 1xAll-Pro).

It will be interesting to see how both teams fare next year taking completely different approaches.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 11, 2009 1:40 AM | Report abuse

The Jags D (ranked #17) was worse than the Skins, but they responded by spending both first-day draft picks on the O-line--taking OTs Eugene Monroe (#8 overall) and Eben Britton (#39 overall). They also signed 34 year old OT Tra Thomas (3xPro-Bowl, 1xAll-Pro).

Posted by: Alan4 | May 11, 2009 1:40 AM |

They also responded by letting their defensive ggenius, Gregg Williams, leave for the NO Saints.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 5:49 AM | Report abuse

"They also responded by letting their defensive ggenius, Gregg Williams, leave for the NO Saints.Posted by: talent_evaluator"

Suggesting they didn't think Williams was doing a good job?

Which brings up the question: Dan fires him, Jacksonville lets him go -- is Greg Williams not that good a D coordinator?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 5:57 AM | Report abuse

Which brings up the question: Dan fires him, Jacksonville lets him go -- is Greg Williams not that good a D coordinator?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 5:57 AM |

No, I don't think that. He has a strong record of successful defenses at Washington and at Tennessee. What I infer is that he's a difficult personality who can't manage his manager. It took strong men -- Gibbs and Fisher -- to build a successful working relation with him. In Buffalo apparently the owner didn't like him and in Jax it may not have worked out with Jack del Rio. Snyder? Who knows. I think they both just wanted to go in different directions.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 11, 2009 6:06 AM | Report abuse

I concerned of our expectations for the defense this year. Don't forget the importance of chemistry and that we did lose a couple key players also. We were ranked 5th last year a shouldn't expect any better this year. Not a whole lotta difference between 5th and 1st though we doo need to apply more pressure and force more turnovers,even if we're ranked 10th. I don't see Kelly signing another NFL contract. I hope he invested his signing bonus wisely because I don't think he'll be on the field in 2010. I wouldn't go so far as to say that we wasted a pick on him. Sometimes you just have to take the chance. We gambled, and in the end I think we'll lose on him. As far as the offense, I think Zorn's play calling is just as much to blame as anything. Just boring and predictable.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 11, 2009 6:31 AM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kneely's microfracture surgery?

Hope the best for this young man, but he does sound like damaged goods, and most certainly faces an uphill battle, on one good leg.

----------

"They've just got to be able to stay on the field, get comfortable and do what they do."

Coach Jim Zen

----------

What "do they do?"

Posted by: Chia_Pet | May 11, 2009 7:04 AM | Report abuse

I don't think guys quickly bounce back from knee injuries and produce. Your leg muscles atrophy quickly, and it takes much longer to build them up - especially to the level of a world class athlete. If Kelly is around this season I think he will have a situational role - say, in goal line offensive packages where they can use his height and a burst off the line might not be so critical. Having said that, there is always a chance of a setback. They push these guys back from injury much, much faster than the average person would be expected to recover and sometimes it doesn't work out.

Devin Thomas, on the other hand, is intriguing. If he has been digging into the playbook and doing due diligence in the weight room, then maybe the Redskins will start to see some return on their 2nd round pick. He still has to show up in game time situations.

As for how last year's draft picks will do this year, I think one just has to look at the free agent signings and draft picks to realize the Redskins front office isn't exactly sold on these guys either. On the roster, there is a lot of third, fourth and fifth receiver competition at wide receiver. If one of these guys can break into actually pushing for the second receiver positiion, then that's when it will start to get exciting.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 11, 2009 7:08 AM | Report abuse

Billy McMullen is sounding pretty good right about now.

Eh?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | May 11, 2009 7:36 AM | Report abuse

this team has been downhill ever since gibbs left the first time. did not give petibone a chance and most of the players left when gibbs did. hired turner and that was the end of the skins doing well. that was done by the cookes not snyder.everyone that is so negative here are probably the ones who sold their tickets to the steeler fans last year.

Posted by: rls1041 | May 11, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

The piss and vinegar content on here, for a Monday, in the middle of May, has gotta be at an all time high...some of you could use a valium......or a hobby....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

redskinhead: "If Kelly is around this season I think he will have a situational role - say, in goal line offensive packages where they can use his height and a burst off the line might not be so critical."

I for one would be really happy if that were the outcome. That's where the Skins need him.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse

Landshark Stadium

I'm inspired by dolphins' owner Steve Ross's decision to team up with singer Jimmy Buffet's (no relation to Warren, btw) sorry beer franchise to re-name the place where countless super bowls, Hurricane foootball, poorly attended Marlins' baseball games, and college national championship bowl contests will be held.

Football in Miami will now be wasted away Margaritaville.

So much for the shaker of salt.

Perhaps today's contest should be what would be a better name for the corporate cold title FEDEX Field.


What about:

Wait Til Next Year Field

This works for Moe as you can abbreviate it down to: WTF Field

The abbreviation works as it also summarizes much of the gameday conversation that comes after another loss.

Think of the t-shirt sales!

It's better than going to games in a stadium named after a yuppie beer.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse

GUESS WHO'S BACK

BACK BACK BACK

GUESS WHO'S BACK

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 11, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Ok, you want a positive comment instead of 'gloom & doom'?

Redskins are 1 good O-lineman & Receiver away from a productive offense! And I like the fact that they have put together a SLAMMIN d on paper. D is kinda deep too!

Today's listening assignment:

Kraftwerk:
Computer Love...

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

LandShark stadium. Wonderful.

Posted by: Redcoat | May 11, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

slim shady?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Another lonely night,
Stare at the TV screen,
I'm wondering what to do,
I need a rendezvous....

Posted by: Redcoat | May 11, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

SLIM SHADY
BRAINDEAD LIKE JAN BRADY
I'M A M-80
YOU LITTLE LIKE THAT KIM LADY
I'M BUZZING
DIRTY DOZEN
NAUGHTY ROTTEN RHYMER
CURSING AT YOU PLAYERS WORSE THAN MARTY SCHOTTENHEIMER

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 11, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Dang, RC, U been reading the curriculum before the assignments are posted?! ;]

At first I thought you were doing Haiku Man! (whar o whar ru?!)

I went to list to 'Model' but it was the english version... ew!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Strangely enough Dik I was listening to that on the drive into work this morning! I've liked Kraftwerk all the way back to 'Ralf Und Florian', and my little girl loves 'Pocket Calculator'.

Posted by: Redcoat | May 11, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

I'd put some Blowfly rhymes on here, but I don't want to melt the CPU.

...now there's some cursin' .. lmao.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

oops - 'list' should have been 'listen'... lol.

It's hard to concieve how much rap has been influenced by these guys:

http://icons-p3.imeem.com/large/kAy6aFK5.jpg

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

LMAO Dik!!

My son sent me this link a while back as his favo(u)rite youtube video. Ihad you pegged for listening to stuff like this rather than Kraftwerk!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNLDLyeepVs

I am here to ride bike!!

Posted by: Redcoat | May 11, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Slim shady

Posted by: alex35332 | May 11, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Don't peg me, bro!

I listen to a bit of everything. For a while the only things I didn't like were Japanese or Tibetan operatic singing. But now I like those too.

I'm not as well versed as I'd like to be, but I do try to cut a wide berth.

All that being said, the Tiberium translation was BRILLIANT!

I am, indeed, here to ride bike! Which is a lot like German Sod_omy... which ties us back to Tour de France & Kraftwerk...

Wow--- my head is spinning.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

So anyone else notice all the weird references to the Redskins by the show American Dad. I understand that last nights episode was all redskins.

Posted by: alex35332 | May 11, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Oh & this is funny too:

Best Metal Video Ever!!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Redcoat | May 11, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Alex, is it on Hulu yet?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Thanks, that's brilliant Dik!!

Posted by: Redcoat | May 11, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

but the haters don't want Campbell, Thomas, and Kelly to grow.

the haters just want to be right.

if i may quote bill walton, "somebody please do something", between the lines of campbell's comments.

Go 111286

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 11, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I don't know yet Dik, I am not a Hulu fan now that Disney owns it. I am guessing it is, as its up on FOX.com. I only caught 5 minutes or so at the end where a guy who looks to be a rip-off of Riggo ex FB/RB who wears no 44 was was getting inducted to the ROF. But I have noticed they have made many redskins references through the show.

Posted by: alex35332 | May 11, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I don't know yet Dik, I am not a Hulu fan now that Disney owns it. I am guessing it is, as its up on FOX.com. I only caught 5 minutes or so at the end where a guy who looks to be a rip-off of Riggo ex FB/RB who wears no 44 was was getting inducted to the ROF. But I have noticed they have made many redskins references through the show.

Posted by: alex35332 | May 11, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Landshark Stadium

I'm inspired by dolphins' owner Steve Ross's decision to team up with singer Jimmy Buffet's (no relation to Warren, btw) ...

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 8:17 AM | ============================================

You learn something new every day!

I thought they were related, until now.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 11, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

It is up on Fox, I cannot download the viewer here.. but when I can, I will.

... hey, any press is good press, right? And the sincerest form of flattery is ridicule?.. wait.. that imitation.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Peter King on Pino:

I think the Rams' release of linebacker Pisa Tinoisamoa was about one thing: size. Even though Tinoisamoa led the Rams in tackles four times in his six-year career, new St. Louis coach Steve Spagnuolo needed a bigger body than Tinoisamoa's 225-pound frame to play strongside linebacker in the 4-3.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 11, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

It wasn't all Redskins (american dad), one character was a Redskins FB who was getting inducted into the 'ring of fame' but couldn't accept his sons homosexuality. I think its just cause its based in DC.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 11, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

& thanks for the throat warbling link. I used to do a meditation based on the overtone harmonic in the oral cavity. (I know, 'that's what she said...')

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 11, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Good observation Alan4..That will be interesting to watch... Adding OLine guys at a high level (STARTERS Danny, not Buges projects). Will buy Garrard an extra second which can turn a mediocre QB into a 90+ rating QB. Sorta the difference between Rypien with the Hogs and Rypien without the Hogs (ie. his Rams tenure).
Maybe what has really been hurting the Redskins for the past 8 or so years is the dependency on Buges by Snyder. Does Snyder feel he can bottom feed in the OL bargain basement because good ol' Buges will coach em up...?? Maybe with a suk OL coach, Snyder would of compensated with higher quality OLine picks??
All this assumes there is logic and reason coming out of Redskins Park...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

JC17 ranked 19th in the NFL in passing (QB rating) last year. David Garrard (Jags) ranked 20th, and his team finished 5-11.

The Jags D (ranked #17) was worse than the Skins, but they responded by spending both first-day draft picks on the O-line--taking OTs Eugene Monroe (#8 overall) and Eben Britton (#39 overall). They also signed 34 year old OT Tra Thomas (3xPro-Bowl, 1xAll-Pro).

It will be interesting to see how both teams fare next year taking completely different approaches.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 11, 2009 1:40 AM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 11, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

DikShuttle


If you're not pegged musically, check out Asher Roth.

He's a classic east coast philly rapper spitting on what sounds like Pete Rock beats here and there.

And I know it's been out awhile, but TI's Paper Trail might be the only Southern Hip Hop cd worth owning, that is until OutKast does something as good as the Love Below again.

And get some Jamie Cullum and Adele for the thsoe thoughtful drives when some good singing and jazz type joints are needed to releive the stress from watching redskins' football games games at WTF Field.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Peter King's 1-32 rankings:

23. Washington
Prediction: I'll look foolish when Washington starts 4-2 or 5-1. These things happen with St. Louis, Detroit, Tampa Bay and Kansas City on the schedule before Halloween, three of them at home. But then, when they finish against the Giants, Cowboys and Chargers, I might be closer to right -- and Jason Campbell might be closer to being somewhere else in 2010.

Posted by: will_ga | May 11, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Thunder, that's AWESOME!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

& Moe - I'll definitely check them out!

And as far as southern goes, Likin' TI... But I'll love anything Trina &/or Trick Daddy ever do... lol.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse


skinsneedagm

The Jags D but they responded by spending both first-day draft picks on the O-line--taking OTs Eugene Monroe (#8 overall) and Eben Britton (#39 overall). They also signed 34 year old OT Tra Thomas (3xPro-Bowl, 1xAll-Pro).

These moves seem great to me.

Maybe Thomas starts and the better player between Monroe and Britton does as well.

And they have a great young back in M Jones-Drew.

The jags also went out and added Torry Holt.

But are the jags on the AFC team to watchout for list?

Naw: the fins, jets, and browns are, though

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

dikshuttle

'But I'll love anything Trina &/or Trick Daddy ever do... lol.'


I'll flip this into, "But I'd love to do Trina, even if it means trickin' her daddy."

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

lmao, Moe - seriously tho - that 305 hood shti is classic (& real... it's nutz there).

And once anyone puts a Tuba as the hook, I'm sold.

Uh huh, okay, whuts up? Shuttuup.

truer words could not be spoke. eh truth?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 11, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if anybody keeps stats on that sort of thing league-wide, but I'm under the impression that WR, like RB and DB, is a position that depends disproportionately on instincts and physical talent, and so is easier to learn, provided the player works at it...

OTs in the pros often have a substantial learning curve, particularly if they come out of colleges that don't use pro-style sets.
I'm surprised to hear you've seen evidence of the opposite. ...

Posted by: Samson151 | May 10, 2009 4:48 PM

As to WRs, take the case of DeSean Jack and Devin Thom. Thom was drafted 34 and Jack was drafted 49 in 2008 so Thom might have a slight talent edge. Yet one flourished as a rookie and one did not. Why? Who knows, but it was certainly a lot more than just the WR's "instincts and physical talent". Jack came into a stable system with a good QB. Thom came into a system that was in flux with a struggling QB. In fact, since both the Skins and the Eagles use variations of the WCO scheme, Thom should have had a better chance to shine because he is bigger and taller, more suited to catching shorter, possession type passesused in the WCO.

As to OTs, a lot depends on the college they came from. If it is a school like Wisconsin (Thom) or Michigan (Long) then their chances of success are good because those schools emphasize structure and discipline in their coaching, which translates very well into any NFL OL system.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 11, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Dude. Because of the font used for the blog, I didn't know whether you was a chick named Larryln Clinton who was a doctor (MD) or whether you was some stiff named Larry living in Clinton, Maryland. Lower case "l" and upper case "I" are indistinuishable with that font.


Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 10, 2009 8:56 PM

AntonChigurh,

Dude, you just reading too much into the name. I've posted in many blogs and sites. Everyone has always gotton the simplicity of LarryInClintonMD. I could have used LarryFromClintonMD, but I ain't.

But, your comment is why I post my pseudonym that way. It makes it a little different from everyone else.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

thks, MM..
wtf the FO passing on Holt, who could of been the WCO bookend to Moss..pulling the double teams off...Especially with the knowledge that Kelly isnt going to be ready (knee)..??

If a WR FA doesnt step up (roydell??) its going to be the same in 09 as it was in 08 on passing downs.... stack Portis, double Moss and blind side overload rush to give JC 2 seconds to throw.. maybe 3 if he rolls out..
After many "3 and outs" or "3 and just short of the marker" like last year..... "2 play" Haynesworth and the Defense will be spent by late 3rd quarter (also like last year).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
skinsneedagm

The Jags D but they responded by spending both first-day draft picks on the O-line--taking OTs Eugene Monroe (#8 overall) and Eben Britton (#39 overall). They also signed 34 year old OT Tra Thomas (3xPro-Bowl, 1xAll-Pro).

These moves seem great to me.

Maybe Thomas starts and the better player between Monroe and Britton does as well.

And they have a great young back in M Jones-Drew.

The jags also went out and added Torry Holt.

But are the jags on the AFC team to watchout for list?

Naw: the fins, jets, and browns are, though

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 9:59 AM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 11, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Cant remember who said it but just try and check any sports writers prediction after the season. They are lucky if they ever get anything right.

Posted by: alex35332 | May 11, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

The Truth is always down with a Trick Daddy quote

cause you on' know nan *****, uh uh

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 11, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

MistaMoe,

It is one thing for them to try to bring in Receivers, but clearly they have never made a concentrated effort to just throw the ball.

They really don't even throw the ball to Santana enough.

I am hoping all that changes this season. For Campbell and Zorn both have to take it to the next level.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

larryinclinton: " am one that does not think highly of the West Coast Offense. The success of the West Coast Offense depends on one Major thing that Teams overlook that employ it.A strong fleet footed receiver (Jerry Rice) that catches short passes and rotinely breaks them for long gains.That ability is rare in receivers and Teams and coaches that donot understand that always come up short, cause without that talented receiver"

Of course having a super-talent at WR is a big help to any scheme. But Zorn had quite a bit of success in Seattle without it.

You're right that a receiver like that (not just Rice and John Taylor, but TO in Philly for Andy Reid) can take a good team into the Super Bowl.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

"...If a WR FA doesnt step up (roydell??) its going to be the same in 09 as it was in 08 on passing downs...."

Painful and true.

If you were a defensive coordinator in '09, how would you prepare to attack the skins?--by reviewing how everyone went after them in '08.

There's no guarantee that either Williams, Kelly, Thomas, or even Randle El will be better next season, meaning Moss/Cooley will see the same 'ol, same 'ol coverages and packages to shut them down.

And that's why not working Torry Holt on to the team is really where some explainin' needs to be done.

Yes: Holt wanted to be shown the money.

But for all we know, the skins' FO probably felt, like with the o-line, it could resolve its wideout issues with scrap players and castoffs rather than find a way to pay a guy like Holt who caught 60 plus balls last year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, beep beep. And all.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | May 11, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

antonchigurh: "In fact, since both the Skins and the Eagles use variations of the WCO scheme, Thom should have had a better chance to shine because he is bigger and taller, more suited to catching shorter, possession type passesused in the WCO.
As to OTs, a lot depends on the college they came from."

It's something of a mystery why 3 smaller WRs from that class (Avery, Jackson, and especially Royal) flourished, while only one of the bigger receivers (Jordy Nelson) made a dent. Kelly's problem was injury, but what about James Hardy (6'6") and Limas Sweed (6'4")?

The thing that alerts me about tackles is the changing nature of college offensive schemes. It's almost like a throwback to the wishbone era in that the college game at certain schools bears little resemblance to the pros. I suspect that's why schools that use pro-style blocking, like Virginia, get extra respect from coaches, beyond their won-loss records.


Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Buges should've threatened to quit two Drafts ago.. But, emotional family issues probably made him more of a team player than before...

150 Million committed to 2 Defensive players in Free Agency, while your Oline is the laughing stock of the NFL (see Ravens game and Madden). And you pick up a waived has-been from the Bills.. The Bills called Dockery, a key part of their 38 sacks in 08, their worst FA acquisition in memory.

I smell a sand baggin conspiracy to wait till 2010 and a new HC... because no Front Office can be this stupid..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"...If a WR FA doesnt step up (roydell??) its going to be the same in 09 as it was in 08 on passing downs...."

Painful and true.

If you were a defensive coordinator in '09, how would you prepare to attack the skins?--by reviewing how everyone went after them in '08.

There's no guarantee that either Williams, Kelly, Thomas, or even Randle El will be better next season, meaning Moss/Cooley will see the same 'ol, same 'ol coverages and packages to shut them down.

And that's why not working Torry Holt on to the team is really where some explainin' needs to be done.

Yes: Holt wanted to be shown the money.

But for all we know, the skins' FO probably felt, like with the o-line, it could resolve its wideout issues with scrap players and castoffs rather than find a way to pay a guy like Holt who caught 60 plus balls last year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 10:24 AM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 11, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

referencing lack of FA WR's...maybe its a case of "Brandon-Lloyd-phobia"... I think Dan is still paying for him.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And that's why not working Torry Holt on to the team is really where some explainin' needs to be done.

Yes: Holt wanted to be shown the money.

But for all we know, the skins' FO probably felt, like with the o-line, it could resolve its wideout issues with scrap players and castoffs rather than find a way to pay a guy like Holt who caught 60 plus balls last year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 11, 2009 10:24 AM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 11, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Samson151,

Thats interesting that it takes offensive lineman longer to get up to speed in the League.

I would have thought otherwise and maybe it is becuase we have less college Teams running a pro set.

Could it also be that Pro Defensive Schemes are so advanced now than they used to be?

But if it is true, as a Pro Team, I would certainly look at those college Teams that run Pro sets to draft my lineman.

That all being said, if the Redskins would unpencil starters on the O'line and let them all know that performance on the field and in practice determines playing time, the Line would be much better.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 11, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Oh wait, this just in....Kelly and Thomas both hurts themselves again shakin'each others hands.

Posted by: joeboggs | May 11, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins offense should be better.

I am amused by those that look at the team and view the offense in terms of the 2008 Oakland Raiders or KC Chiefs.

I would like to have seen the Redskins draft or sign another OL in the offseason as a tier I free agent. But it didn't happen.

At the same time, I think some the panic we see here is overblown.

In years past I can think of a number of times the Redskins were entering a season with questions on the OL and were able to improve from within with players fans tended to dismiss as too young or a veteran 'past his prime'.

Remember 1999? The Redskins entered the offseason with no offensive tackles. They came out of camp with Jansen starting as a rookie and Andy Heck a 12 year veteran picked up off waivers starting on the other side.

The Redskins not only won the division and made the playoffs but put up excellent offensive numbers along the way.

In other years the Redskins had players such as Raleigh McKenzie, Ed Simmons, Ray Brown and Mark Schlereth step forward and contribute despite being late draft picks or street free agents.

Could it happen again in 2009?

Actually I think it is MORE likely to happen in 2009 because the Redskins have a pretty good left side already in place in Samuels and Dockery.

The right side has Randy Thomas returning at OG and a mix at RT with Heyer/Jansen and newcomer Jeremy Bridges.

Bridges has 6 years of NFL experience and at 6'4 and 326 can be an option at OG in case Thomas does not come back at 100%.

I think Bugel can work with a right side that includes Bridges at OG and Heyer at RT.

Jansen is taking snaps at center so I think he now realizes he is not in the team's plans as a starter for 2009. So, the debate about #76 in my mind is about which backup position he plays and whether he might see spot duty if there are in-game injuries.

From the perspective of the line overall, I think acquiring Bridges will help the team more in 2009 than another stab at a lineman at #5 or #6 in the draft.

Hopefully, OL will be the subject of the 2010 draft and the team will bring in some blue chip prospects for the future.

But for 2009 the line and the offense appear capable of improving on their 2008 performances.

One thing you won't see is younger players like Dockery, Bridges and Heyer wear down in the second half the way the 36 year Kendall, 33 year old Jansen and 32 year old Thomas did last season.

Posted by: leopard09 | May 11, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins offense should be better.

I am amused by those that look at the team and view the offense in terms of the 2008 Oakland Raiders or KC Chiefs.

I would like to have seen the Redskins draft or sign another OL in the offseason as a tier I free agent. But it didn't happen.

At the same time, I think some the panic we see here is overblown.

In years past I can think of a number of times the Redskins were entering a season with questions on the OL and were able to improve from within with players fans tended to dismiss as too young or a veteran 'past his prime'.

Remember 1999? The Redskins entered the offseason with no offensive tackles. They came out of camp with Jansen starting as a rookie and Andy Heck a 12 year veteran picked up off waivers starting on the other side.

The Redskins not only won the division and made the playoffs but put up excellent offensive numbers along the way.

In other years the Redskins had players such as Raleigh McKenzie, Ed Simmons, Ray Brown and Mark Schlereth step forward and contribute despite being late draft picks or street free agents.

Could it happen again in 2009?

Actually I think it is MORE likely to happen in 2009 because the Redskins have a pretty good left side already in place in Samuels and Dockery.

The right side has Randy Thomas returning at OG and a mix at RT with Heyer/Jansen and newcomer Jeremy Bridges.

Bridges has 6 years of NFL experience and at 6'4 and 326 can be an option at OG in case Thomas does not come back at 100%.

I think Bugel can work with a right side that includes Bridges at OG and Heyer at RT.

Jansen is taking snaps at center so I think he now realizes he is not in the team's plans as a starter for 2009. So, the debate about #76 in my mind is about which backup position he plays and whether he might see spot duty if there are in-game injuries.

From the perspective of the line overall, I think acquiring Bridges will help the team more in 2009 than another stab at a lineman at #5 or #6 in the draft.

Hopefully, OL will be the subject of the 2010 draft and the team will bring in some blue chip prospects for the future.

But for 2009 the line and the offense appear capable of improving on their 2008 performances.

One thing you won't see is younger players like Dockery, Bridges and Heyer wear down in the second half the way the 36 year Kendall, 33 year old Jansen and 32 year old Thomas did last season.

Posted by: leopard09 | May 11, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

"One thing you won't see is younger players like Dockery, Bridges and Heyer wear down in the second half the way the 36 year Kendall, 33 year old Jansen and 32 year old Thomas did last season.Posted by: leopard09"
Thomas plain scares me. I'd rather see him retire. He's a terrific guy and I don't want him to get hurt.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

[I]Wilber Marshall's middle name[/I] = [B]Buddyhia[/B]

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

[I]Wilber Marshall's middle name[\I] = [B]Buddyhia[\B]

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas, Kelly, Randy Thomas, Samuels all hurting. Look for the skins to go 6-10 and drafting higher next year.

Posted by: jercha | May 12, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

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