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Campbell: 'We got beat in every phase of the game'

Jason Campbell, perhaps appropriately, addressed the media early Tuesday morning with a black eye. He was sacked five times in the Redskins' 45-12 loss to the New York Giants. He threw two interceptions, one of which was returned for a touchdown. He suffered a sprained shoulder that drove him from the game in the first half.

"I feel like this is the worst game since - my career, since we've been here," Campbell said. "We got beat in every phase of the game. Not one phase of the game. It's a total team loss. We lost all over the field."

Technically, the 33-point loss to the Giants wasn't as lopsided as a 52-7 loss at New England in 2007. But this one, Campbell said, was worse "just because we were at home and we've been playing so well the last four to five weeks and to come out and do what we did tonight, didn't see that one coming."

Campbell completed 15 of 28 passes for 192 yards and one score, an 11-yard pass to tight end Fred Davis in the third quarter. But his performance after he returned from the injury, suffered in the second quarter, was much better, 13 of 21 for 182 yards - even though Coach Jim Zorn considered sticking with backup Todd Collins.

"I planned on starting Todd in the second half because his shoulder was hurting pretty bad," Zorn said. "Then when he came out and warmed up, he felt good and felt like he could play, so I told him to go until he couldn't do it. If he got hit much more and got another shot to his shoulder, I was going to take him out of the game."

Campbell said Zorn told him he intended to go with Collins in the second half, but Campbell convinced him after he warmed up.

"I told him I'd rather go while I'm warm," Campbell said. "Once I stand there for a while, you get out of rhythm, get cold, so I told him while everything was heated, I felt like it was the best time and we should go now."

Campbell's 57.4 passer rating was his second-lowest of the season, beaten only by the 46.1 rating he had against the Kansas City Chiefs in October, a game in which he was benched at halftime. Monday's performance, though, came against a Giants defense that seemed to know what to expect.

"They [were] pretty much on everything that we was doing early in the first part of the game," Campbell said. "Everyone is booing and there's nothing open, there's nothing you can do about it. They're bringing the rush, and you're getting hit, so you just got to keep moving on to the next play."

By Barry Svrluga  |  December 22, 2009; 7:19 AM ET
 
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Next: Predict Sunday's result

Comments

Jaws talked about how good the Redskins are? I keep coming back to the final words:

"...For the most part, he (Jaws) sees a team with Pro Bowl effort across the board and Pop Warner talent where it hurts most. "It's a beat-up bunch, a replacement team," he said. "But I'll give everyone on the coaching staff credit: they're playing hard."

A fair assessment.

The team did play hard--for about a month.

But sometimes you are what you are.

The playoff hungry jints showed up and reminded us all of the problems the close losses hid: the 2009 Washington Redskins are just a bad football team.

And the cowboys are coming to town with just as much determination to make the playoffs as the giants put on display last night.

The offseason can't get here fast enough.


Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 7:25 AM | Report abuse

WOW

Posted by: WRBD | December 22, 2009 7:25 AM | Report abuse

Zorn should be fired today, you will never get me to believe he wasn't heavely involved in the play calling last night.

That fake FG was a complete joke the worst call I've ever seen.

That would also let them start the interview process and then get Shanny in here.

Listening to Zorn talk about how the fake FG was good defense by the Giants, give me a f_cking break a high school team could have defended that.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 7:40 AM | Report abuse

Never have I once seen JC get in somebodys face or show any kind of emotion. Grab an o-lineman and tell him to f-ing block, tell your rb chip somebody. Nope never see that we just see this malcontent mosey off the field not shaking his head not yelling just unsnaps his chin strap. Good QB's get in players faces, they yell at players. I hope they get rid of JC, get something in there that shows a little bit of emotion. It drives me crazy after hundreds of 3 and outs I got to see this stupid QB say after the game "well everybody is booing me" well do somthing about it.

Posted by: jasonbrown20 | December 22, 2009 7:42 AM | Report abuse

The offseason can't get here fast enough.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 7:25 AM

Judging by last night's performance, I'd say it started when Vinny walked out the door. Looks like Vinny was the glue that held it all together, because it sure ain't Zorn or his staff.

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 7:45 AM | Report abuse

"...came against a Giants' defense that seemed to know what to expect."


So who gets blamed for the playcalling?

Sherm or Jimmy Z?

The giants ran a lot of crossing routes that abused R McIntosh early on. They moved K Boss around like he was a slot receiver and not a tight end.

The effect was to take a safety or linebacker out of the box to make the draw plays to Bradshaw productive.

They also ran hard at P Daniels and A Carter off misdirection type counter plays with Jacobs and got yards.

All the run action did was set up the passing (enabled by the skins' bungling secondary) that allowed them to pull ahead early.

Where was that kind of thinking from the hometeam?

That's all I'm asking.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 7:46 AM | Report abuse

The offseason can't get here fast enough.


Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 7:25 AM

Ditto that.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2009 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Can we hire Vinny Cerrato again so we can fire him again. Play-off roster my a$$.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

"Zorn should be fired today, you will never get me to believe he wasn't heavely involved in the play calling last night."


Talk about lacking emotion.

ESPN sideline shots of Zorn were of a guy who knows he's just keeping the clipboard warm.

What, your team gets its azz kicked on national tv and you don't even try to fake being pissed off to stir up some emotion?

NBA, college basketball coaches, and baseball managers do it all the time to varied results.

B!tch your secondary out--it needs to be.

B!tch your offensive line out--they may suck, but hell, they are getting paid to play.

C'mon, Zorn, show some pride.

The money ain't that good.

Or is it?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

Keep on celebrating, Moss !
Most of you know me by now,,,,I hate the Deadskins because of their over-the-top celebrations....anything they will celebrate...Moss last night (he leads the team in celebrations, by the way), spinning the ball when they were losing by 24....Landry coming on strong too, Moss is teaching him
I hate the Celebrating Deadskins !!!!

Posted by: griffmills | December 22, 2009 7:58 AM | Report abuse

In fairness to Zorn, he's done. And everyone knows he's done, especially when his replacement has all but announced he's in. So asking him to coach and coach well under those circumstances (and I don't think he coaches well under ANY circumstances anyway) is asking a lot. He was in over his head on this gig anyway, so I blame the clown that hired him more than Zorn himself.

And now that the clown that hired him is gone, time to cut your losses and move on. I've heard the only reason he's not fired today is because of the Christmas holiday. I say give EVERYONE involved an early Christmas present and let this guy go.

I'm only in favor of firing a coach in-season when it's painfully apparent that the team won't play for the guy or in the case of gross neglicence on the part of the coach. If you saw last night's game, you'd see that both instances may be true here.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

back up the moving van now and clean house

Posted by: mdoughtie22 | December 22, 2009 8:11 AM | Report abuse

The players quit...period!

To hell with the excuses...I'm tired of the media in this town.

When is it the players' fault!

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

flound, 1-brazillion percent agreed, the play calling was just awful last night, it REEKED of JZ's meddling. For example the 'stretch play' that they ran repeatedly with little to nothing to show for it.

moe, again, agreed, why can't we get a guy who can game plan like that. Hearing jaws talk about how they took away play calling from JZ made me want to puke, don't mention how they scored 6 points against KC, and how since Sherm took over they've been scoring more...just give one side of the equation to make your point....

the fake fg, was just fail..fail...fail..

Mike Wise suggested that it was JZ getting back at mgmt?? I mean, are you serious?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

I hope they get rid of JC, get something in there that shows a little bit of emotion.

Posted by: jasonbrown20 | December 22, 2009 7:42 AM


They used to say the same thing about Peyton Manning. Not saying that JC will one day play at PM's level, but it illustrates that you don't have to grab facemasks to be a leader. JC doesn't wear a "C" on his chest for nothing.

JC is lucky to be alive after last night. I mean, who has time to get in someone's face over an assignment when you have to stop and see if you have all your limbs and all your teeth?

So for the 1,456,866th time: JC isn't this team's problem. Snyder, Zorn, and the worst O-line in football is.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Well, now that the sting of such an embarassing loss is wearing off, let me offer these candid observations:

-The offensive line played horribly, but I think William Robinson did better than Heyer at right tackle. He might be someone to invest more playing time in to see what he's got. The bottom line is, this offensive line needs an overhaul. How the team can even think about drafting a QB at number one when Campbell is getting mowed down on every third play is beyond me. Do the right thing Bruce, and get some offensive tackles.

-This has got to be - hands down - the worse defensive game Greg Blache has called. He had no answers for the underneath crossing routes and the running back tandem for the Giants. Shameful. This game makes a case for running more 3-4 defense, by the way.

-Without Cornelius Griffin, I think it became obvious that the backup defensive tackles have nowhere near the strength that Griffin has. The Redskins might want to take note of the fact that even though Griffin gets his share of dings, he is a big strong pylon in the middle of the defense and he won't be easily replaced.

-Jim Zorn, you are an idiot - and Danny Smith is, too if he drew up that fake field goal. I agree with everyone who says Zorn's fingerprints were all over the play-calling last night. Do you think he took the duties back since Vinny was gone?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Mike Wise suggested that it was JZ getting back at mgmt?? I mean, are you serious?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:13 AM

Serious, yes. Wise, no.

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Most of that team quit last night.

And for the millionth time: get Zorn the F out of here.

He can take Campbell with him. That idiot couldn't read a newspaper headline without being given 10 seconds to do it.

As old as Todd Collins is, he faced the same Giants pass rush and hit Moss, then ARE, then Fred Davis for a TD on a beautiful pass, which Davis dropped.

The fake FG... I can't even discuss it....lol... Pathetic.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

That absurd call Monday night was the only way Zorn could exact some revenge on his meddlesome bosses, the only way he could get back at a splintered organization he will almost certainly cease to be a part of by the first week of January.

And if that's the case, well, it's about time


wow...Mike Wise, thats pretty pathetic...so you're in favor of the coach tanking the game as a way to get back at the owner??

Anyone hear anything about DT-11 getting hurt last night?? Didn't see much of him in the 3rd/4th....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

-Jim Zorn, you are an idiot - and Danny Smith is, too if he drew up that fake field goal.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 8:15 AM

Worst part, according to J. Reid, is that Suisham is now a Cowboy and he knows all our special teams trick plays. If we try something like that against the Cowboys they'll be so prepared that....well, the play won't work.

Now that the Cowboys have seen the trick play, they may cut Suisham and sign a kicker today. J. Reid thought they'd be spending all week practicing for the 'Skins gadget plays. All it takes is a time out.

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

My favorite part of last night was the adjustments...both defensively and offensively....I loved when they went Max protect to help protect JC, and how they started playing man-coverage/bump and run to stop Eli from slicing them up...gosh that was pathetic.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

I'm only in favor of firing a coach in-season when it's painfully apparent that the team won't play for the guy or in the case of gross neglicence on the part of the coach. If you saw last night's game, you'd see that both instances may be true here.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

You won't get any argument from me, I was wrong about the players quitting (and I guess they don't want jobs next year either, p1) but I said all along my support for Zorn was conditional on him not calling plays.

This is what it looks like when Zorn is involved heavily in calling the offense on game day, he doesn't seem to know he's really no good at it. As HC, he just can't help himself and it's clear that with Vinny being the only thing restraining him (albeit done in a classless way), this is what it would look like in perpetuity during a Zorn era.

No thanks.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 22, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

For the first time in 54 years of watching the Redskins I turned the game off and went to bed when it was 17 -0. I told my wife that if those guys did not want to play I was not going to lose sleep watching. This was totally disgusting. Nobody on the offense or defense showed up to play.

Posted by: rmcpks73 | December 22, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

For the first time in 54 years of watching the Redskins I turned the game off and went to bed when it was 17 -0. I told my wife that if those guys did not want to play I was not going to lose sleep watching. This was totally disgusting. Nobody on the offense or defense showed up to play.

Posted by: rmcpks73 | December 22, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

romo, agreed, it looked as though JZ was part of the play calling...what was the stat that jaws threw out last night, 24 percent of their passes are throw AT the LOS.....I mean, how is that supposed to be effective.....

I think the only good news is that BAllen is seeing the dirty ugly side of this team...

Anyone still think that LT in the first and RT in the 2nd is a bad idea?? They need that MUCH MORE than they need a guy who can take it to the house.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse...That call before the half sums up the season and Zorn as head coach. We are the laughing stock of the NFL. I've been saying this for a few months now...Fire Zorn, get rid of JC, CP and SM, and clean house. I'd rather see all rookies out there playing. SM spinning the ball on that catch when you're down by 24 and getting blown out, what planet is he living on? What a joke.

Posted by: RB1019 | December 22, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

I'm with you Greg, if JZ is tanking games he'll never work in this league again. I just think he's an idiot and is the only one who doesn't realize it.

It just baffles me how folks can have so much malice for Wilbon and Jenkins up here, and yet read that clown Wise with any regularity.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

If these guys were playing for their jobs then Fred Davis should be the only car in the parking lot.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins were a bad team before last week's win and had only played hard in hopes of saving their jobs. Zorn has been a lame duck coach since October and it had to affect the team knowing they were now interviewing his replacements. For them to come out this flat was embarrassing but not a surprise IMO.

I would expect a better effort against Dallas but they have a lot on the line and will play hard as the Giants did last night. The Redskins should seriously consider resting Campbell after seeing what happened last night. He's only going to take a bunch of more hard hits behind this line which would hurt his value in the long run.

Posted by: wizfan89 | December 22, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

SM spinning the ball on that catch when you're down by 24 and getting blown out, what planet is he living on? What a joke.

Posted by: RB1019 | December 22, 2009 8:35 AM

You can take the boy out of "the U" but you can't take "the U" out of the boy.

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Anyone still think that LT in the first and RT in the 2nd is a bad idea?? They need that MUCH MORE than they need a guy who can take it to the house.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:33 AM


Agreed. Without addressing LT and RT, the only one taking it to the house will be the opponent's defenders as JC fumbles away another 18-20 balls a year.

If this team takes anything less than two lineman in this year's draft (and going all OL wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea), I swear I'm getting pitchforks and torches and taking Redskins Park over myself!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

brown, I mean, I'm not the brightest guy on the planet, but does Mike Wise realize what he's suggesting/writing?? He's saying good for JZ for effing up the opportunity to score, that running that ridiculous play that had ZERO chance of working was a good move by JZ?? I mean are you kidding me??

pa, yeah with the ball in his hands Davis runs hard...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

The column is right about the dominoes falling. As long as Vinny was there, the guys were his guys, the coach was his coach, etc. But as soon as you kick out Vinny, it's every man for himself.

Observation 1: Any notion that the O line had solidified was pulled from its bed and shot.
Observation 2: Haynesworth is over rated. Apparently his tummy was hurting him last night. Poor Albert.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

If this team takes anything less than two lineman with their first 2 picks.....

there fixed it for you...

I don't want a 4th round Tackle...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

"JC is lucky to be alive after last night. I mean, who has time to get in someone's face over an assignment when you have to stop and see if you have all your limbs and all your teeth?"


Well, that's true.

Campbell was hit like a Tiger Wood's groupie last night.

The giants ran stunts that required a patchwork offensive line to 'switch' rushers and the line did a bad job of it.

Too, Q. Ganther (M Mason the better of the two) whiffed more than once on blitz pickups where the 'backer was coming right at him.

And I'm wondering about the route design: crossing routes to Thomas and Davis worked well for a month--who chose to abandon them?

Has S Moss become very ordinary or what?

The result of all this?: the gun-shy, inaccurate and beat up quarterback quoted above.

Campbell is now a black guy with a black eye.

And just think--DeMarcus Ware is coming to town.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Good column by Boswell this morning. Snyder does not understand much. He points fingers at everyone else, when all he really needs to do is look at himself.

Posted by: cannontl | December 22, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the fix, Greg. I swear I'd skip thru the streets if they went all OL/DL in this draft. Stop screwing around with skill players and get the grunts that REALLY make a team good.

And I'm in total agreement on Wise. He's good for a chuckle when he does Rome is Burning, but otherwise he's useless as a columnist.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

How did anyone not see this coming? Zorn's been an official lame duck since the middle of the week, these guys aren't playing for anyone. Most of their coaches are done. Half the players are done.

They were lifeless and will play out this way until Allen gets rid of Zorn, or guarantees his job for next year.

Posted by: kingtutts | December 22, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

yes, greg, a quarter of the plays were WR/RB/frickin bubble screens behind the LOS, 3rd and 11 passes to ARE for seven yards, stretch play after stretch play...

Wise's article was idiocy. He actually wrote that Zorn could walk out the door with "integrity, pride, strong self-worth" by "sticking it to the Redskins like they've been sticking it to him" (!) by intentionally running a gadget ST play that was 100% certain to fail (!!) and then laughing about it later in the presser.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 22, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

"Suisham is now a Cowboy and he knows all our special teams trick plays."


Shaun Suisham, the cowboy Deep Throat?

I guess now that Jessica Simpson has moved on, someone else had to be.

And what, pray tell, special team 'trick plays' does Suisham have knowledge of that's an advantage to the cowboys?:

Let's see:

'Shank,' 'Wide Right/Left,' ' Short Kick Off Out of Bounds,' and 'Choke' were the plays he knew best as a redskin.

Thing is, that last play 'Choke' is one the cowboys already know.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

I think its funny if you scroll up and look at the title of the recent posts, they're all about the Giants game, except for the post about BFF-Suisham....fast forward to next Monday, and imagine if you will SSuisham just kicked a game winning FG, how many posts will we get regarding him being the most accurate kicker in team history??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Couple of things...

Our RB's definitely showed their youth last night, one sucking and two not being able to block or pick up blitzes

Landry, Rogers, and the rest of the DB played the worst game, I have seen in a long time and the D line wasnt much better, can we please move Orakpo to DE perm, he showed his weakness in coverage last night with the rest of the team...

I hate Wise, Jenkins and the Azz clown posse that writes for the Post, what a bunch of firestarting d bags...

Heyer needs to go, but more importantly so does Rabach.

Welcome to town Allen, I hope you walked down in the locker room and told everyone that they could and should be fired after that game.

IMO...the reports of Gray, Blache and whoever else interviewing for Zorn's job was the nail in the coffin for this team. I feel awful for anyone in DC that shoveled out to go to that game

I got BOOED out of a bar in Cincinnati, last night wearing a Skins sweatshirt

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

I don't want a 4th round Tackle...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

A fourth round guard could be good though. We may be able to get John Jerry or Sergio Render in the 4th.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

I'm just getting to this blog and I haven't read most posts, but let me ssay this. I have no proof, but I won't be surprised if Zorn was more involved in the game day play calling than the previous month. The whole flow of the game, from passing routes, to the stretch off tackle run (welcome back) has Zorn written all over it.

As for the defense, I think it was a microcosm of everything that has been wrong on that side of the ball. Poor communication on the back end, and very poor gap fits up front.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Snyder does not understand much. He points fingers at everyone else, when all he really needs to do is look at himself.

Posted by: cannontl | December 22, 2009 8:44 AM

Snyder understands more than you do. Snyder hired Bruce Allen to replace himself. Now how about you hiring someone to replace yourself?

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Fire Bruce Allen!

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Good column by Boswell this morning. Snyder does not understand much. He points fingers at everyone else, when all he really needs to do is look at himself.

Posted by: cannontl | December 22, 2009 8:44 AM |

He looked at himself and hired a respected GM and hopefully things are on the right track.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Like everyone else says this game was pathetic. I have been a Redskin fan since before CBS started televising the games. The radio broadcast was a real treat as well as a trip to the old Griffith Stadium. After a decade of Danny ball I think it's time I learned to play golf. Oh, I do agree with Wise on this one.

Posted by: Keyskonnection | December 22, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

someone has to ask JZ if he was calling the plays, because this has his input ALL over it...all the short passes, stretch plays...this just didn't seem like the same offense we've seen the past few weeks....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Agreed, I think it'd be an interesting experiment to remove Zorn from this whole process, install Sherm2 as sole playcaller, and see what happened.

It wouldn't be farfetched to say that the defense knew who was controlling the offense last night and was so demoralized by it that they laid such a monumental tampa deuce on the field.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 22, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

twisi,

We have been discussing that there is no doubt in my mind he was all over the play calling.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Orakpo to DE perm, he showed his weakness in coverage last night with the rest of the team...

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if you could see it on TV but on that play to Boss in the 2nd quarter, the ref set a wicked pick on Orakpo. So big it knocked the ref's shoe off.

The best part of that sequence was after the play watching the ref sit on the field and let another man tie his shoe for him.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Hiring Allen is a big mistake. I compare this to hiring Gibbs. He wants the masses back, he wants your money abck.....the only way he can do that is by bringing someone with ties to the Skins' good old days. This is going to be a debacle. Allen wont succeed and it all will end just as Gibbs 2.0 ended on a bad sour note!
Sorry Skin fas this hasnt hit rock bottom yet...wait a few more years...perhaps this is a curse from the real Read Skins people. Dont you think ?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Hiring Allen is a big mistake. I compare this to hiring Gibbs. He wants the masses back, he wants your money abck.....the only way he can do that is by bringing someone with ties to the Skins' good old days. This is going to be a debacle. Allen wont succeed and it all will end just as Gibbs 2.0 ended on a bad sour note!
Sorry Skin fas this hasnt hit rock bottom yet...wait a few more years...perhaps this is a curse from the real Read Skins people. Dont you think ?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Good column by Boswell this morning. Snyder does not understand much. He points fingers at everyone else, when all he really needs to do is look at himself.

Posted by: cannontl | December 22, 2009 8:44 AM |

He looked at himself and hired a respected GM and hopefully things are on the right track.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 8:56 AM

I hope you are right. He also hired a HOF coach and another coach prior to that who had been successful in Schottenheimer, but it never really worked.

The best chance is if he stays out of it and lets Allen and the new HC do their jobs.

Posted by: cannontl | December 22, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I liked the fake FG call the first time they called it. When they called it the second time, the only sense I can make of it was what Wise said ... that it was Zorn's passive aggressive FU to The Owner b/c that is all he can still do. The post-game with the players last night was that the whole team knows now that Zorn is gone ... and there was a report from some DENVER media outlet (don't remember whether it was print or broadcast) that Blache and Gray have told players that they have NOT been interviewed for the HC position (contrary to other reports that Rooney Rule stuff is already done). Apparently, the players received the Allen-for-Cerrato news differently ... that it wasn't that The Owner had fired Cerrato and hired Allen, but that The Owner has hired Shanahan who required, as a condition of taking the job, that Allen run his (Shanahan's) front office.

With Holmgren in Cleveland, Zorn ends up as OC in Cleveland ... and takes Brennan with him. Peeps don't know it right now b/c he's on IR, but Skins fans are currently (and don't know it yet, b/c he's still here) in love with Clot Brennan as the "future". Once he's gone, getcher popcorn ready for the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

There was nothing positive about that thing last night, except that kost turns out to be one of the most solid "fans" (enjoy the good and suffer the bad ... till the very end) I've ever met.

etrod, I figure that 2:30am call means you made it home OK.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Hiring Allen is a big mistake. I compare this to hiring Gibbs. He wants the masses back, he wants your money abck.....the only way he can do that is by bringing someone with ties to the Skins' good old days. This is going to be a debacle. Allen wont succeed and it all will end just as Gibbs 2.0 ended on a bad sour note!
Sorry Skin fas this hasnt hit rock bottom yet...wait a few more years...perhaps this is a curse from the real Read Skins people. Dont you think ?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 9:07 AM |

Bruce Allen is a respected GM with 5 division titles, this is nothing like bringing Gibbs back and putting him in a position he was not qualified for.

Gibbs is a coach and thats all he should have been doing.

What would you suggest he do besides selling the team because thats not happening.

Tell me who you would have braught in instead to fix this team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

QB Comparisons as of 12/22/09:
Campbell 87.0Rtg; 18TD; 11INT
Cutler 71Rtg; 19TD; 25INT
Sanchez 62.3Rtg; 12TD; 20INT

Posted by: MrMerkin | December 22, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

"Everyone is booing and there's nothing open, there's nothing you can do about it. They're bringing the rush, and you're getting hit, so you just got to keep moving on to the next play."

This idiot can't make a read without being spotted 5 seconds to do it.

Get him out of here. I'll take a rookie QB, as long as it's someone who may one day be able to make a quick read, a pinpoint throw (see Collins pass to Moss, and the pass to Davis for a would-be TD last night), and not stare down receivers.

He's a loser. We're supposed to "respect" him because he can take a hit? Blah. He's making 7 figures and he has NO SKILLS. I was hoping they'd keep him on the bench for the second half.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Here is what I don't get about the umbrage regarding JZ getting yanked as the play caller..the first 8 games, they scored, 17, 9, 14, 16, 17, 6, 17, 17, 103 points over 8 games. And Jaws went on and on about how JZ like to call plays, and thats what he enjoyed most, but they fail to give the whole picture, where prior to last night the last 3 games they were scoring over 30 points per game...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Skin fas this hasnt hit rock bottom yet...wait a few more years...perhaps this is a curse from the real Read Skins people. Dont you think ?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 9:07 AM


Is this Richie Incognito? Because only an idiot would say that. This team won 3 Super Bowls with the same name so why would a curse start now?

The only curse I believe in is the Madden curse. Anything else is bullsh*t.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

someone has to ask JZ if he was calling the plays, because this has his input ALL over it...all the short passes, stretch plays...this just didn't seem like the same offense we've seen the past few weeks....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 8:57 AM

There was still plenty of Sherm Lewis in there ... there was just no offensive tackles involved. What hit were the three step drops. Anything where he left the pocket was a sack. The guy never had a chance b/c that Giants (2-6 in the preceding 8 games prior to last night) found swagger. Skins' O-line, not so much.

Even so, that intentional grounding for failure to throw it over the line of scrimmage was vomit worthy. That 4th quarter scramble right with the check down to ARE's nuts was absurd.

The only (single, as in one, unitary, not plural) actual non-fail play last night was The Todd to Moss on The Todd's first snap at the end of the half.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

etrod, I figure that 2:30am call means you made it home OK.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse


Yeah, I totaly butt dialed you. Sorry.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

And Jaws went on and on about how JZ like to call plays, and thats what he enjoyed most, but they fail to give the whole picture, where prior to last night the last 3 games they were scoring over 30 points per game...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

yea. I like to play football, that doesn't mean I'm qualified to play in the NFL.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 22, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Froze my ass off last night to watch that pathetic game. No only did the player quit, but the coaching was terrible. Neither the offense nor the defense made any adjustments to counter the Giants. The offense should have rolled out JC and thrown more screens to slow down the Giants rush. The defense had to stop playing zone and start playing more man-to-man as there was always a wide opened Giant receiver all night...

Posted by: siris | December 22, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

"With Holmgren in Cleveland, Zorn ends up as OC in Cleveland" - dc, ZERO chance this happens...maybe JZ becomes the QB coach, but Holmgren isn't that stupid...he'd get eviscerated if he named JZ as the OC....

flound, no need to respond to idiots like that, when people mention money, is just trying to stir up trouble....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if it was strictly Vinny's call to keep Zorn for the rest of the season.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

"If these guys were playing for their jobs then Fred Davis should be the only car in the parking lot."

No kidding.

Collins can ride shot-gun, I can't believe they put Campbell back in in the second half.

The only thing that gave me comfort is that this will not be the same coaching staff and offense next year.

Thank God for that!

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | December 22, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Agreed, I think it'd be an interesting experiment to remove Zorn from this whole process, install Sherm2 as sole playcaller, and see what happened.

It wouldn't be farfetched to say that the defense knew who was controlling the offense last night and was so demoralized by it that they laid such a monumental tampa deuce on the field.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 22, 2009 8:59 AM
------------------------------------------
That's an easy experiment. It starts with "Jim Zorn, you are fired" and then moves on to "Sherm Lewis, you are interim head coach".

Moving along, why wouldn't this team have every young player on the roster active for the next couple of games? I was scratching my head about Marko Mitchell, Barnes and Edwin Williams being inactive for yesterday's game. Get these kids some playing time. Will it hurt to have Carlos Rogers and ARE sit out the last two? If it makes their ego's feel better the team can cite that they have the "flu" or something else that will prevent them from playing. This team is playing for next season and it is time to get the young guys some playing experience. I would think Bruce Allen would really, really want this.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I have no reason to beleive that Allen or Shanahan will allow Snyder to meddle. Allen worked with Montgomery Burns in Oakland

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Actually dc, I hope holmgren does hire JZ, and the offense produces in the same manner that the redskins did with jz calling plays....lets see Mike put his money where his mouth is...practice what he preach's...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Froze my ass off last night to watch that pathetic game The offense should have rolled out JC and thrown more screens to slow down the Giants rush.

Posted by: siris | December 22, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Sorry to hear that. As for the screens, there were plenty and all of them were sniffed out and crushed.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 22, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

What was up with that? I turned the game on in the 3rd quarter, looked at the score and the empty stands and thought I was watching a Jaguar game.

Posted by: tigerjag3330 | December 22, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Skin fas this hasnt hit rock bottom yet...wait a few more years...perhaps this is a curse from the real Read Skins people. Dont you think ?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 9:07 AM


Is this Richie Incognito? Because only an idiot would say that. This team won 3 Super Bowls with the same name so why would a curse start now?

The only curse I believe in is the Madden curse. Anything else is bullsh*t.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 9:13 AM
------------------------------------------
I don't know. I'm starting to believe the burgundy on burgundy uniform is cursed. The team needs to throw out that uniform selection.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

I have watched and cheered for this team for 44 years and have never seen it quit before. Now I can't say that. The O-Line nearly got JC and TC killed last night. The defense was putrid. The coaching staff have mailed it in. As a fan I would personally like to apologize to my fellow fans who braved the weather, traffic and everything else to witness the total collapse of a once proud franchise. Dan Snyder you and Vinny have out done yourselves. Before this season began you underminned your coaches, QB and players to ensure a loosing season. Bruce Allen can't help what you've put asunder.

Posted by: classicskins | December 22, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

I have no reason to beleive that Allen or Shanahan will allow Snyder to meddle. Allen worked with Montgomery Burns in Oakland

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 9:19 AM
------------------------------------------
And Shanahan had a real problem with a meddlesome Al Davis...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Joe T. is saying he talked to Allen last night, and Allen told him he has full control and wouldn't take the job without it.

I don't think Allen would be saying that stuff to the media unless it was true because Danny would here it.

I think Danny is finally figured it out now lets hope he can stay with it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

flound/anyone, has there been any reports of why DT wasn't on the field much of the 2nd half?? Was he hurt, or were they trying to get MK more involved??

Who decides the inactives??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

This is what Florio had to say about the shabingus last night and the days leading up to it:

"... A cynic might think that the Redskins intentionally created an internal disruption in order to throw water on the team's late-season surge under Zorn, which might have triggered local sentiment to give him another year. Also, finishing with three losses would put the Redskins in better position to acquire a quarterback of the future in the 2010 draft. ..."

I don't THINK I'm a cynic, but I completely buy this. I also think that both Blache and Jerry Gray got bus-thrown by leaks that they were the Rooney Rule guys ... regardless of whether it is true, they would be obliged to deny, thus creating further distrust in the locker room. Clusterbingus.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

They used to say the same thing about Peyton Manning. Not saying that JC will one day play at PM's level, but it illustrates that you don't have to grab facemasks to be a leader. JC doesn't wear a "C" on his chest for nothing.

JC is lucky to be alive after last night. I mean, who has time to get in someone's face over an assignment when you have to stop and see if you have all your limbs and all your teeth?

So for the 1,456,866th time: JC isn't this team's problem. Snyder, Zorn, and the worst O-line in football is.

Posted by: brownwood26 |
The last time I checked, Peyton does yell at his lineman or RB's when they miss assignments. He yells at his wide receivers, he commands respect. JC looks like he could care less, after Rock misses that chip out of the back field, get in his face, tell him to block. Its Football 101. If people miss blocks you tell him, if youre going to be a captain, I say act like one

Posted by: jasonbrown20 | December 22, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

Knothing on DT

The head coach normally desides the inactives.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

I saw on one kickoff return DT took a bad hit, and got bent back maybe he got hurt on that play.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I don't know. I'm starting to believe the burgundy on burgundy uniform is cursed. The team needs to throw out that uniform selection.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 9:22 AM


Agreed. That combo is hideously ugly, not to mention ineffective. If I'm not mistaken, they've lost every game in those unis. Either go with the classic burgundy on white or white on burgundy or do us all a favor and roll out the throwbacks with the spear helmet. Best uni they've got, IMO.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

brown,

I like the spear helmet, I change my view on the burgundy on Burgundy. I do think they should go to Gold pants, maybe Allen will change up the uniform once he is done fixing the team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

I have watched and cheered for this team for 44 years and have never seen it quit before. Now I can't say that. The O-Line nearly got JC and TC killed last night. The defense was putrid. The coaching staff have mailed it in. As a fan I would personally like to apologize to my fellow fans who braved the weather, traffic and everything else to witness the total collapse of a once proud franchise. Dan Snyder you and Vinny have out done yourselves. Before this season began you underminned your coaches, QB and players to ensure a loosing season. Bruce Allen can't help what you've put asunder.

Posted by: classicskins | December 22, 2009 9:23 AM
-------------------------------------------
Classic,
I feel your pain but aren't you being a little over-dramatic? The Skins collapse last night happened because they have a hamstrung coach, a new GM and uncertainty about the future. Not many teams play well in situations like that. I honestly believe Snyder is on the path to good things. I think Gibbs had him there, but Vinny led him astray when Gibbs left. Bringing in a strong team president - head coach like Shanahan will be just what the doctor ordered. There's some re-tooling that needs to be done, but this is a much better team if they can just fix the offensive line. They are not several years away from doing that if they go after offensive line talent with a passion in the draft.

The defensive talent is solid, but Blache has let the fans down this season. He's a better coach than this. I think he is more than a little bit like Greg Williams in that he believes so much in his scheme that he is reluctant to try anything different. This might be a moot point, since I am pretty sure Blache won't be back next year. I hope Shanahan can bring in someone who likes to blitz a little more.

The fact is the Redskins will be back next year and I am ready to guarantee that they will have a better record. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water and write them off...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

flound, thanks, yeah, I saw that play too, and then saw him in at WR a coupld times after that, but then he disappeared....good think that marko was there to....nevermind....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

flound/anyone, has there been any reports of why DT wasn't on the field much of the 2nd half?? Was he hurt, or were they trying to get MK more involved??

Who decides the inactives??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse


He had an ankle injury in the 1st half.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Bgreg, I'm just yammerdittoing what Florio thinks ... which is that if Mora is available, he gets the HC job, if not, then Zorn. Unlike the Skins, Browns have been building their O-line for a couple few years now ... plus, if he can take his QB (Brennan) with him, rather than "coaching up" Gibbs' trade up first round pick (Jason Campbell), he might have different results.

Also, for whoever suspect that Sherm Lewis gets the interim job, you're confused. He was brought out of retirement to teach Zorn how to get from the Red Zone to the end zone. That's it. If they have an interim head coach, it would be someone the players (esp. vets) know, i.e., Blache or Gray ... or maybe Joe Bugel.

I was at the game, so didn't get to see any sideline shots (or replays, or penalties, or highlights, or hear play-by-play, or anything other than @ss off freezing), but did they have any head shots of Bugel losing it? The offensive line was playing like it was earlier this season ... playing their JV guts out.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

oe, thanks....sigh....I mean, in the long run I guess a loss is a loss, and with a new GM picking in the draft, we're better off I guess...I had no problem losing to the Saints, because the offense was performing well, and the game was enjoyable to watch...last nite...not so much...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Solid and calm analysis RedSkinHead...

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

In the post-game interview, going down through the injuries, Zorn said Devin Thomas sprained his ankle or some such.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

im gonna bet casey rabach is the 1st player to go, he has to be
you can blame zorn all you want, once again it's the oline
it seems the last 4 times we've played the giants, their 1st drive of the game they just pick us apart and go right down the field like no other team in the league, they must have a tell on blache, our D looked pathetic
who cares about the fake field goal, we were down 24-0, i woulda done the same stupid s**t at that point, i mean really, complaining about the fake, im gonna go ahead and complain about the entire 1st half up until the fake, the fake was the only play of the 1st half where i was like "i'm proud to be a Redskins fan" that's saying something...

todaysskins14

Posted by: retroskins14 | December 22, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the smallpox blankets, Judas Snyder..The mobification of sports, government, media, every aspect of American life, is all a result of the war crime gangster families (mainly Jewish, like the Rockefellers and Rothschilds) that own the Federal Reserve, extending their power and control of America through organized crime- New York is overrun and at the center, and with Danny's help, federal DC is falling, too..Maybe he'll take this "Trail Of Tears" to Vegas or LA in another Irsay big rig..

Posted by: frak | December 22, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

dc, there was one shot of buges, and he just looked old...kind of pulled at the heart strings a little...I appreciate what he's done, but probably time for a younger cat...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"Everyone is booing and there's nothing open, there's nothing you can do about it. They're bringing the rush, and you're getting hit, so you just got to keep moving on to the next play."

This idiot can't make a read without being spotted 5 seconds to do it.

Get him out of here. I'll take a rookie QB, as long as it's someone who may one day be able to make a quick read, a pinpoint throw (see Collins pass to Moss, and the pass to Davis for a would-be TD last night), and not stare down receivers.

He's a loser. We're supposed to "respect" him because he can take a hit? Blah. He's making 7 figures and he has NO SKILLS. I was hoping they'd keep him on the bench for the second half.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

DT played....

I completely buy that the double fake FG was Zorn flipping the bird at Snyder.

The team is in shambles. And outside of the horror of watching it, I am OK with it b/c Vinny is gone, I have confidence that Allen can at least build the skins back to mediocre/watchable and create a culture more condusive to winning and the team SHOULD be exposed as the fraud they are so NO ONE is under the delusion that fundamental change is essential to the health of this storied franchise.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

They showed Bugel for a second.

Zorn got a lot of face time last night. And I can't remember 1 instance where it looked like he cared.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 22, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

So Todd Collins completes a pass and he's our savior again? Didn't we already see how this one ends? Todd can only throw that one pass across the middle. The defense makes 1 adjustment and shuts him down. That's what Kansas City did and that's what the Giants would have done if he stayed in the game. Todd got clobbered on every pass he threw last night. He would have been on IR before the 4th quarter. If we want to get a new QB we should get at least 5 of them. We're going to need them all. Personally, I'd rather get the linemen.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

On that first play where Thomas caught the pass for the first down, and then it was called back (holding?), and followed up with a running play (Ganther off right tackle?), even a caveman could see that they were calling the exact same passing play to Thomas (tipped the second time). If Sherm Lewis is calling the passing downs, that was the first "fail" in my eyes. The old man is apparently not a fan of rhythm. Third play of the game. Next play punt.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

I think Jim Zorn should resign today. He made a mockery of the team. I'm (figuratively) wearing a grocery paper bag on my head as I am embarrassed to be a Redskin fan (and since I live in New York, my NY Giants colleagues will give me major grief). The fake FG was horrible, why did they still do it even after NYG called timeout? I could not bear to watch the 2nd half. Also, I think the blame should go to the person who hired Jim Zorn. Was it Cerrato or Snyder or both? Sorry guys, terrible decision and you get what you paid for. Let's hope that Bruce Allen will be like his Dad and bring the swagger back to Redskins.

Posted by: figmentsas | December 22, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

This is what Florio had to say about the shabingus last night and the days leading up to it:

"... A cynic might think that the Redskins intentionally created an internal disruption in order to throw water on the team's late-season surge under Zorn, which might have triggered local sentiment to give him another year. Also, finishing with three losses would put the Redskins in better position to acquire a quarterback of the future in the 2010 draft. ..."

I don't THINK I'm a cynic, but I completely buy this. I also think that both Blache and Jerry Gray got bus-thrown by leaks that they were the Rooney Rule guys ... regardless of whether it is true, they would be obliged to deny, thus creating further distrust in the locker room. Clusterbingus.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:28 AM
-----------------------------------------
And man never landed on the moon, there was a second gunman in the JFK assasination, and I bumped into Elvis at the donut shop last night.

Give me a break, please. I think what happened was the players heard everything about Shanahan coming and they suddenly realize Jim Zorn is not going to be around. They don't have their hearts in the game because even though Jim Zorn is a bad coach, he has been good to them all and maybe a lot fo them believed Zorn would have been retained if only Vinny were gone. I think on top of that, Zorn saw this as an opportunity to take back the play-calling responsibilities. Heck, maybe Bruce Allen even told Zorn to take back the play-calling so he could evaluate Zorn for himself. Thus we end up with a game with poor execution and poor play-calling. Be prepared for more of the same unless Bruce Allen takes the bold move of letting Zorn go now, which after last night's display, would be highly appropriate.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

The last time I checked, Peyton does yell at his lineman or RB's when they miss assignments. He yells at his wide receivers, he commands respect. JC looks like he could care less, after Rock misses that chip out of the back field, get in his face, tell him to block. Its Football 101. If people miss blocks you tell him, if youre going to be a captain, I say act like one

Posted by: jasonbrown20 | December 22, 2009 9:28 AM


Peyton yells at his guys NOW. But about 5 years ago, that wasn't the case and if you recall, his "liqoured up kicker" called him out on it. Shortly thereafter, he stepped it up a bit and the team won a Super Bowl. And it's not like they weren't winning before that. Again, I'm not comparing JC to PM, but I'm just using Manning as a point of reference that you don't necessarily have to be visibly vocal to lead. Just because you don't see it on game day, doesn't mean it's not happening.

Besides, we probably miss him doing that because the cameras are all fixed one of the 3 linemen that missed the block...God knows it ain't just one guy stinking up the joint at the line of scrimmage.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

RedSkinHead, Thanks I needed that. I love this team so much, that I hate to see it fail. You are right our future began anew with Bruce Allen's hiring. Now bring on the COWGIRLS!

Posted by: classicskins | December 22, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

So Todd Collins completes a pass and he's our savior again?
Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 9:43 AM
----------------

No, he showed what a QB who can MAKE A READ and who can throw a pinpoint pass can do.

Your boy Campbell needs 10 seconds just to read a newspaper headline.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworht's comments about needing different leadership/direction on defense were spot on.

The personnel on this defense has "attack" written all over it.

Instead we get bend-don't-break, we get players showing blitz then retreating into a soft zone, we get CBs playing 15 yards off the line of scrimmage.

Bye bye Blache and Co.

Posted by: p1funk | December 22, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Didn't we already see how this one ends? Todd can only throw that one pass across the middle. The defense makes 1 adjustment and shuts him down. ... Personally, I'd rather get the linemen.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 9:43 AM

On the linemen, it is both personal and professional ... and spiritual. I'm with you as many percentage points as a person can be without going over 100.

The reason for The Todd's success on the play he hit (and frankly, both scores) was because the OTHER Todd was on the field. Based on his Skins' career to date, the other Todd should be special teams captain next year, plus one of a tandem team of fullbacks. When Yoder is on the field, Skins have positive yards, if not TDs, if not divine mercy and clemency from the Reigh (Rain) of The Owner ... which probably means he'll be canned too. I don't do merchandise, esp. replica jerseys, but if I did, I'd go Yoder.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

MrRedskin21 he had a bad game not doubt. I'll be interested to see how Allen and the new HC plays this situation. Allen knows he has to rebuild this Oline before he can even think of this team as a contender. However, the decision on the QB position is really going to define how long the rebuilding project will take. Does the owner have the patience for a full out rebuild? We shall see.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

we get CBs playing 15 yards off the line of scrimmage

this absolutely kills me, there were so many times last night when it was 3rd, and whatever, and the cb's are playing past the 1st down marker...its laughable...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

I am a-ok with every single coach getting canned.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

That was an F-ing embarrassing game, but I'm going to take a twofold positive outlook on it. First, this may guarantee that a roster purge, overhaul, and reset is coming finally. Perhaps now we'll get built by a real GM into a real football team instead of a starter heavy collection of "stars" who have no heart and annually underachieve. Secondly, if we can beat Dallas this week we knock them out of the playoffs!

Roster purge:
Gone:
Portis
Betts
Moss (for picks)
Randel El
Cartwright
Rogers
Landry (for a ham sandwich he was completely terrible again, whiffs on tackles, bad coverage, the guy is a backup, perhaps the worst top 5 pick since Heath Shuler, but I bet he could get you a 3rd or at the very least a 4th)
Trade Haynesworth for picks (he's great, but we don't need him and he is one of the few high round value players we have, get a 1 and 3 for him and be happy)
Trade Fletcher for picks (he'll retire before we're any good again, may as well get some picks).

Oddly enough the few redeemable parts on this roster IMO are mostly Vinny's picks.
DT11
Marko
Kelly
Davis
Cooley
Orakpo
Carter
Gholston
Monty
LoAlex
McIntosh.

If you can get a 3 for Moss, a 1 and a 3 for Albert, and a 3 or 4 for Fletcher, you'd actually have enough picks to start a makeover. Take a tackle and a QB in the first, let the QB sit behind Campbell for a year. A RB in the second. In the 3rd take all oline. In the 4th take a couple of big corners, and go LB and WR late. We'd struggle next year but would have youth everywhere and hopefully a groomed franchise QB in 2011 behind a young solid oline.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

CL

I agree %100.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Right now, the only bright spot is Bruce Allen replacing Vinny.

But the some of the fans are as much a part of the deficient culture of this team as management. I watched plenty of them up here after the Raiders win spend a week talking about how the offense is "coming along" "finally clicking" how Ganther could be the RB we need, and - incredibly - there were even some Jim Zorn defenders, suggesting that he be given another season here.

I thought the Skins might get their heads handed to them last night, and I posted as much on Saturday.

This team needs a HC, a QB, O-linemen, and most of all a cold-blooded approach to evaluating talent, something I hope Bruce Allen brings to the table.

Make no mistake about it, with a few exceptions, that team quit last night, especially along the O-line and in the defensive secondary.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Very few comments re: the defensive failures in this game. I've been operating under the assumption that the bulk of our problems are on the offensive side of the ball, but lordy - that's a lot of points to give up, even if your offense is 3 and out every possession. What happened on D???

Posted by: jay4811 | December 22, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Give me a break, please. I think what happened was ...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 9:44 AM

Dude, you can have your break. What you're saying and what I'm saying are completely consistent. Do you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing?

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

I agree. I think we need to say bye to Blache and company and get a new defensive staff. Let the coach bring in his own coaches.

On another note, all you guys that say we must draft a dominating LT in the first, sorry to say, I am not sure any of the lineman are worth a top 5 maybe even a top 10 pick. I have seen Okung play and I haven't been that impressed. When he plays good talent he looks kind of average. Look at the OU and Texas games. I say trade down and get a lineman later in the draft and then pickup a QB of the future, or a RB with the additional pick.

I'm hoping Dallas come in cocky and Washington will play with something to prove. C'mon one more win and call it a season.

Posted by: Redskins001 | December 22, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Your boy Campbell needs 10 seconds just to read a newspaper headline.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 9:46 AM


He seemed to read that and NFL defenses pretty well the 3 weeks before.

I love how the guy's numbers go up every year, yet some clowns up here strut with vindication every time he screws up and act like his good games are an accident.

JC is on pace to play all 16 games behind the worst line in football. "Your boy" Todd Collins wouldn't last 16 minutes behind that line.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

So Todd Collins completes a pass and he's our savior again?
Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 9:43 AM
----------------

No, he showed what a QB who can MAKE A READ and who can throw a pinpoint pass can do.

Your boy Campbell needs 10 seconds just to read a newspaper headline.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 9:46 AM
------------------------------------------
You know, last night I wanted to see the kid Bartel active and playing. I'm just curious about what he has that makes the team waste a spot on the active roster for him to occupy. Campbell was getting mauled, I really don't think Collins would have survived, and so, hey, let's see how the kid handles adversity. I hope they activate him for these last two games and give Collins some bench time. Of course, Campbell might not be able to play next week once the painkillers wear off - I think he's hurt more than they realized. (I think the same is true about DT, too. Wouldn't be a bit surprised if both of them sat next week.)

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

"Everyone is booing and there's nothing open, there's nothing you can do about it. They're bringing the rush, and you're getting hit, so you just got to keep moving on to the next play."

This idiot can't make a read without being spotted 5 seconds to do it.

Get him out of here. I'll take a rookie QB, as long as it's someone who may one day be able to make a quick read, a pinpoint throw (see Collins pass to Moss, and the pass to Davis for a would-be TD last night), and not stare down receivers.

He's a loser. We're supposed to "respect" him because he can take a hit? Blah. He's making 7 figures and he has NO SKILLS. I was hoping they'd keep him on the bench for the second half.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 9:11 AM


Agreed. It was a team wide fold job but Collins looked better than soup as he has every time he's played for DC. 50 starts wasted, three seasons wasted. When you win 35% of your starts you lose 65% of your starts. Tired of it.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 22, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

The players quit, but let be the first to say I don't like the Allen/Shanahan hires one bit as they are not character guys. I expect these to guys to alienate some of the Redskins fan base. You wonder if these guys are just doing a Deon Sanders, comming to Snyder to get paid in the twilight of their careers. Like Moss, like Portis, Shanahan proved with Denver's slide last season that he is way past his prime, and doesnt care about success. So he won with Elaway, Atwater, and TD, what has he done without them? Expect chaos for atleast two more years.

The teams at the top this year have for the most part have young smart hungry coaches... lets hope Shanahan can find some.

Posted by: hakimallen | December 22, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Bye bye Blache and Co.

Posted by: p1funk | December 22, 2009 9:47 AM

Thinking off the top of my head DC who will/may be available this offseason


1. Dick Jauron
2. Jim Mora (Jr)
3. Wade Phillips
4. Lovie Smith

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

cl, yeah, time for some new blood in there...clean house, bring in some guys who have fresh ideas and can, oh I don't know, maybe game plan, make adjustments, change things up....just off the top of my head...

zj, AH is not part of the problem...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

I am a school Principal. If the Superintendent of schools came into my school and took away my evauluative and decision making powers, my staff would run amuck. Of course they would be nice to me, because I am no longer a threat to them. On top of that, if everyone knew who the next Principal was going to be would be even more demoralizing.

Then you ask me to go win...

BUT

if my teachers displayed a performance equivalent to what we saw last night, then I'd take some of them down with me.

AND...

I could endure it if I know I'm gonna get paid in the end.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Give me a break, please. I think what happened was ...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 9:44 AM

Dude, you can have your break. What you're saying and what I'm saying are completely consistent. Do you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing?

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 9:56 AM
------------------------------------------
I disagree with your categorization of my disagreement.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I've been one who said let Zorn finish out the season since the team was stilling playing hard for him even as a lameduck coach. That wasn't the case last night as it was painfully obvious that the team had quit on themselves. The merciful thing to do at this point is to fire Zorn and let Gray coach the last two games.

If nothing else, this will start the house cleaning that was needed and start to heal some of the fissures that exist within the team. Let JC sit out the last two games for his own health and confidence. If he is going to be our QB next year, we need him in one piece.

Posted by: wizfan89 | December 22, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I agree. I think we need to say bye to Blache and company and get a new defensive staff. Let the coach bring in his own coaches.

Posted by: Redskins001 | December 22, 2009 9:57 AM |

Oh you can bet on it. This team is finally getting burned to the ground instead of repeating the charade of we're only 1 or 2 players away or a coach away. I'm reversing course and saying Zorn and crew should be fired now.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 22, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

I am a-ok with every single coach getting canned.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009
9:51 AM

Mentally, I'm going down the list ... and I think I agree, except for maybe the LB coach (Olivadotti?) who seems to have made something out of nothing ... maybe this Meidt guy has something interesting. Both seem like generic coaches who could be plugged in anywhere. D-line coach (Palermo?) too ... he's gotten some success out of those guys even without Haynesworth on lots of snaps. After last night, I'm also wondering about how crucial Cornelius Griffin might have been (even though he's been overshadowed by the ends plus Haynesworth and Golston and Lozo).

btw, the one sack that Haynesworth did have was a thing of beauty. Any time Eli gets carpet throwns brings a smile to my face. D. Hall just sucked sucked sucked again last night ... and that Landry whiff on Nicks stained in my undergarments. He kills guys after they go out of bounds, but when Nicks is IN bounds, he got real careful to avoid contact. I'm biling up just thinking about it.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

ricky....big ups on being a school principal....that is a hard azz job. I am in education as well and I have crazy respect for principals.

Also great analogy and perspective.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

If you can get a 3 for Moss, a 1 and a 3 for Albert, and a 3 or 4 for Fletcher, you'd actually have enough picks to start a makeover...

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 9:52 AM


Whoa, whoa, whoa...do you know an NFL GM that makes ANY of those proposed deals? Albert is untradeable because of his contract, Moss is worthless to another team because he disappears for weeks on end (not to mention he's 30), and nobody's giving up a draft pick for Fletch because he's in his mid 30s. Even on Madden you won't yield the kind of return you're talking about for those guys.

So let's quit the whole "trade everybody" stuff...this ain't the NBA. Nobody's taking your trash for you, let alone for precious draft picks. The only way this gets turned around is if we cut our losses on the old vets and PATIENTLY draft over the next couple of years and hope we get lucky with some of the late round picks.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

I think the Redskins have become such a joke that even the officials don't respect them. Haynesworth gets a 15 yard penalty for his punch (OK) but Jacobs gets NOTHING????

It was like the end of the Eagles game, when Campbell was thrown to the ground and didn't get a roughing penalty.

Things are pretty bad when even the Zebras spit on us.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

zj, AH is not part of the problem...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

He absolutely isn't. But lets be real, we all know that we're a long way from contending, he's the one piece on our roster that could fetch multiple high picks and we played just fine without him a week ago and got dismantled with him. He's a great player, but DT isn't enough of an impact position that we need to worry about having a $40 million dollar star there when the rest of the roster is in shambles. Trade him, get 2 or 3 picks and move on. I like, I think he's played hard and been a difference maker when in there but come on the drop off from him to our other tackles isn't near the drop off of our oline compared to a respectable NFL oline. Get some picks for him and get some young talent that will still be around and productive in 3 years when we'll have a shot at being good again.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, it's gonna be tough to move that wish list given the 2010 cap hits. I found a site that lists the cap hits below, but I'm almost certain these contain performance bonuses and are therefore a bit inflated (all other sites say Portis will make $7.2 mil)

http://www.thehogs.net/washington-redskins/salary.php

Betts: $2.5 mil
Cartwright: $1.6 mil
Fletcher: $7.1 mil
Haynesworth: $8.8 mil
Landry: $5.7 mil
Moss: $6.7 mil
Portis: $12.1 mil
El: $5 mil

Even if there are some hefty performance bonuses built in there, no team would give Landy, Moss, Portis, or El even half that.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

OK when I'm wrong I'm wrong (Captain Obvious warning...)

Zorn is gone and needs to go. Was it not plain to see that not only were we outplayed from an effort persepctive, but we were outschemed left and right. And I'm not even talking about the double swinging gate kamakazee play, which I loved (that was Zorn saying "F U!" to Snyder and I don't blame him). Our offensive line is in shambles, which is Cerratos' fault. That problem has been addressed. Now the coaching problem needs to be addressed. Yes they outhustled us and have better personnel, but they outmaneuvered us from the first play. And that is on Zorn. As is the fact that the team quit.

Goodbye JZ. I wish you well but you need to go.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 22, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

matt,

There will be no cap in 2010.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Moss still has plenty of value to somebody for a midround pick, Fletcher maybe not cause of age but I can't imagine a team wouldn't be willing to part with a mid to late round pick for a premier MLB for 2 years. And Haynesworth's contract isn't close to our worst deal, if you look at his cap figure he's actually fairly reasonable and in an uncapped year there is no such thing as "untradeable because of his contract".

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Thinking off the top of my head DC who will/may be available this offseason

1. Dick Jauron
2. Jim Mora (Jr)
3. Wade Phillips
4. Lovie Smith

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2009 9:59 AM

Dick Jauron was a special teams coming up. I'd be totally down with Lovie Smith though. Pass on Wade Phillips. Ditto with Lil Mora.

Red, we're good (I think ... not sure) ... so we will agree/disagree to agree/disagree ... whichever fits.

Math guys: What is our "no better than" spot in the draft ... like if the ones ahead of us (Detroit, St. Louis, KC, etc.) all win out and the Skins lose out, what is the highest spot that the Skins could be slotted?

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

If its true that Zorn was trying to get back at Snyder, I better not hear another word about how classy poor Jim Zorn is. To do that to your players and especially JC is just plain wrong. On another note, I've received a record amount of texts from friends mocking me about the Skins performance last night. And I can't even respond..

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Whoever wants to trade Haynesworth is NUTS! He just needs to get in shape and no one here has made him.

If Haynesworth is in shape, he's unstoppable.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

If its true that Zorn was trying to get back at Snyder, I better not hear another word about how classy poor Jim Zorn is. To do that to your players and especially JC is just plain wrong. On another note, I've received a record amount of texts from friends mocking me about the Skins performance last night. And I can't even respond..

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:12 AM |
-------------------------------

I hear ya.

I was watching the game with a Giants fan, and he could NOT BELIEVE that, after NY called a TO when the Skins shifted on the FG formation, they came right back and ran the same damn play.

Mortifying.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

I never said Haynesworth is stoppable. He's a beast, and I like him on our team, but being real, he's the only guy we have that can garner multiple picks and we need more picks. We need a lot of things more than we need Fat Albert.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

was i the only person that saw d.hall yellin at zorn on the sideline lol ? fuuk was dat about

Posted by: Felz2o2 | December 22, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I think the Redskins have become such a joke that even the officials don't respect them. Haynesworth gets a 15 yard penalty for his punch (OK) but Jacobs gets NOTHING????

It was like the end of the Eagles game, when Campbell was thrown to the ground and didn't get a roughing penalty.

Things are pretty bad when even the Zebras spit on us.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 10:07 AM

Was it just me or were there about 5 holding non calls on the Giants first drive?

Posted by: Realness1 | December 22, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

... Fletcher maybe not cause of age but I can't imagine a team wouldn't be willing to part with a mid to late round pick for a premier MLB for 2 years. ...

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:11 AM

From what I've read, what people say about him, and everything else, I imagine that Fletcher would be willing to play out his career with Grilliams and would adjust his contract as necessary to do so. Saints don't have a burning needs at MLB (as in Vilma is finally playing healthy for a full season), and Fujita and Shanle have been (surprisingly) solid ... funny what playing for Grilliams' blitz machine behind Grant/Ellis/Smith/some other DT will do for the career of an LB ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

ga, BINGO...couldn't agree more....

today really sucks.....but you know what, lets all be happy that maybe, with the hire of Bruce, that maybe, there is a small light at the end of a very long tunnel, that we've endured the worst, and things could be on the upswing...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

On another note, I've received a record amount of texts from friends mocking me about the Skins performance last night. And I can't even respond..

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:12 AM

Why would you want to? Your friends need to get a life outside of texting. "Hey, I'm gonna text ga8085 that the 'Skins suck. I'll bet he doesn't know that. Ha ha."

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

I want Landry gone. Take whatever you can get for him...dirty jock strap, extra mouth guards, anything. He is so overrated, it's disgusting.

Posted by: Moose33 | December 22, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Whoever wants to trade Haynesworth is NUTS! He just needs to get in shape and no one here has made him.

If Haynesworth is in shape, he's unstoppable.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse
Agree totally. This dude has made more of an impact on 3rd and 4th and short then anyone I've ever seen. But you know how it is on here, folks tend to go all Madden on you when things are going down hill.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

whats a text.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Please blow this train wreck up and start all over! Get some team players and get rid of the all about me idiots that point fingers and celebrate plays when your team is loosing!

Posted by: vexed50verizonnet | December 22, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

If its true that Zorn was trying to get back at Snyder, I better not hear another word about how classy poor Jim Zorn is. To do that to your players and especially JC is just plain wrong. On another note, I've received a record amount of texts from friends mocking me about the Skins performance last night. And I can't even respond..

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse


You gotta learn the art of trashtalkin'...it's losses like this that challenge the best of them but you can't back down.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Moss still has plenty of value to somebody for a midround pick, Fletcher maybe not cause of age but I can't imagine a team wouldn't be willing to part with a mid to late round pick for a premier MLB for 2 years. And Haynesworth's contract isn't close to our worst deal, if you look at his cap figure he's actually fairly reasonable and in an uncapped year there is no such thing as "untradeable because of his contract".

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:11 AM


Even if I grant you the Haynesworth point, trades aren't common in the NFL. If a guy is on the trading block, it stands to reason that the team wants him out. And if every team in the league knows you want a guy out, they'll take their chances and wait for you to cut 'em. So the minute the Skins offer up Moss or Haynesworth or anyone else on their roster, it's basically sending a league-wide message that you're getting ready to cut the guy and you're just checking to see if you can get anything out of him before you do.

So again: let's get off the "trade everybody" thing. It's not gonna happen, no matter how much sense we as fans think it makes.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Why would you want to? Your friends need to get a life outside of texting. "Hey, I'm gonna text ga8085 that the 'Skins suck. I'll bet he doesn't know that. Ha ha."

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Exactly, I always agree with them but they act like their telling me something new. I think their trying to make me snap, lol.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Whats a battle?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 22, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

BG, surely you jest...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Exactly, I always agree with them but they act like their telling me something new. I think their trying to make me snap, lol.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse
They're and their.. who gives a damn

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

I am not sure any team would want what we have to offer...I think Moss needs to go, but who would want him??

Same with Landry = full retard, kid looks like he cant even play this game anymore, WTF.

Hall is atrocious, so bad...did CR22 get benched last night in the 3rd quarter? Cuz he sucked too, as did Doughty and the LB crew.

I think the D just laid down and said F it.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

"...Landry, Rogers, and the rest of the DB played the worst game..."

The secondary has underwhelmed all season.

It was supposed to be a team strenght, what with the expected rush from Haynesworth and Orakpo.

Maybe we need to get K Barnes some face time, and pray C Horton comes back strong.

'Cuz right now, the clueless gang of Smoot, Doughty, Landry, Rogers, and Hall makes me gag.

Joe Haden anybody?

Didn't think so.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

You gotta learn the art of trashtalkin'...it's losses like this that challenge the best of them but you can't back down.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I did all my trash talking before the season began. I gots nothing left..

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

cl, I jest, I jest...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

phew!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

can we get an update on how Suisham is adjusting to being in Dallas, if he's found a place to stay, when they come up here will he and JReid still be bff's.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

You look at our Defense and you have to wonder if we need to rebuild every where, but the DL...

LB - Fletcher is getting old, still solid...Rocky has played well, but not last night and Orakpo is not a LB, beyond the ref rub last night, I just dont see him covering TE and HB, but he will have another off season to learn the position

The secondary is so bad, I think we are in for a huge overhaul there. Why not bulk up Landry and have him play Orakpo's position and put him back at DE??

We need new safety's, but we will also get back Horton, whatever that does for us...Kareem Moore looked awful last night, CR22 still sucks, Hall sucks worse.

The beating of the chest, strutting, etc of Moss, Hall and others last night was sickening.

Happy Holidays, everyone!

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Even if I grant you the Haynesworth point, trades aren't common in the NFL. If a guy is on the trading block, it stands to reason that the team wants him out. And if every team in the league knows you want a guy out, they'll take their chances and wait for you to cut 'em. So the minute the Skins offer up Moss or Haynesworth or anyone else on their roster, it's basically sending a league-wide message that you're getting ready to cut the guy and you're just checking to see if you can get anything out of him before you do.

So again: let's get off the "trade everybody" thing. It's not gonna happen, no matter how much sense we as fans think it makes.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Right, Wes Welker, Richard Seymour, Randy Moss, Clinton Portis, Champ Bailey, Gaines Adams, Roy Williams, Phillip Rivers and Eli Manning, Tony Gonzalez, Matt Shaub, Jay Cutler, Samson Satele, Anthony Henry, Jon Kitna, Lito Shepherd, Sage Rosenfels, Kellen Winslow, Brett Favre, DeWayne Robertson, Jared Allen, and DeAngelo Hall all think NFL trades are impossible......

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

For all you Zorn haters:

Coaches under Snyder: 69-86 (including HOF Joe Gibbs)

Same coaches with functional ownership: 201-109 (including Gibbs I)

Same coaches with functional ownership:
77-49 (not including Gibbs I)

Why did we lose last night? We lost because Snyder dropped a "bomb" in the middle of the team last Tuesday.

Zorn will take some team to the Super Bowl. Unfortunately, it won't be the Redskins.

I have enjoyed cheering on the Redskins since 1971. Watching Snyder tear this team apart and make a mockery out of Jim Zorn (you won't find finer men in the NFL)is the last straw for me. I'm done.

Go Colts! Maybe the Browns if Holmgren hires Zorn.

Posted by: SkinsFan2111 | December 22, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

"Moss still has plenty of value to somebody for a midround pick..."

Moss plus the '11 first rounder might yield a second and fourth rounder next April.

That's 3 picks in the top two rounds and an additional mid round pick (two 4th rounders).

3 picks in rounds 1-2 opens up a lot of possibilities, especially now that a strong GM is in place.

The Niners have 2 first rounders next April.

Maybe you give them Moss and the '11 first round pick to get their second 1st round pick.

Either way, moving Moss and a pick opens the team up to some creative solutions to addressing obvious needs.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

F Suisham and J. Reid.

Gano missing the point after, ugh...but I do like watching the ball going into the endzone on Kickoffs.

I got booed out of a bar in Cincy, home of the Bungles who traditionally suck, thought I would have gotten some sympathy from the likely cellar dwellers, so embarassing.

Dude next to me at the bar, after watching them Bradshaw screen us to death, NO SH1T looks over to me and says, "Stay Medium, haha!" almost punched him, instead i took down a 16 oz beer to the face.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

He's a beast, and I like him on our team, but being real, he's the only guy we have that can garner multiple picks and we need more picks. We need a lot of things more than we need Fat Albert.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:16 AM

No one is giving "multiple picks" for this guy and his contract, Jack. If they'd wanted him with that contract, they could have signed him last year when he was a free agent -- without giving up any picks. Now you think after the year he's had that they're thinking "Wow, he's a lot better than we thought. Let's give up a second and a fourth this year plus a third next year for his $91 million contract."

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

get that shti outta here, 2111, you wanna go root for another team, by all means, get to steppin, just don't try and make yourself or JZ out to be martyrs in this whole process...guy is gonna get paid 2.5 million next year for sitting at home, so cry me a river....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Hey, look at it this way, you have an epic battle of wills brewing between Snyder and Zorn, kind of like in Crimson Tide between Denzel and Gene Hackman..if they both had severe brain damage.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Breaking news: Jaws reviewed the tape from last night's game and really likes what he sees in Jason Campbell.

Posted by: Madalex | December 22, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

3 picks in rounds 1-2 opens up a lot of possibilities, especially now that a strong GM is in place.

Except that Allen does not make the picks, it sounds if Shanny gets the HC job that he will be making the pick, since he will do personnel.

How real is it do you think that Shanny is the new coach????

I think if he gets the job, Bates will be our new DC, they are close and he is available, boo...

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Zorn will take some team to the Super Bowl. Unfortunately, it won't be the Redskins.

I have enjoyed cheering on the Redskins since 1971. Watching Snyder tear this team apart and make a mockery out of Jim Zorn (you won't find finer men in the NFL)is the last straw for me. I'm done.

Go Colts! Maybe the Browns if Holmgren hires Zorn.

Posted by: SkinsFan2111 | December 22, 2009 10:35 AM |

Thats the funniest thing I've ever read, Zorn will never get another head coaching job in the NFL he is a bum.

I'm sure the Colts have a blog you can go to.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

was i the only person that saw d.hall yellin at zorn on the sideline lol ? fuuk was dat about

Posted by: Felz2o2 | December 22, 2009 10:17 AM

D. Hall has reverted to his inner punk. Albert's two biggest unsportsmanslike are the direct result of having to step in to slow down what Hall started. Admittedly, Hall probably was a little frustrated from his over-rated, overpaid phcking attitude getting picked apart by Eli and his receivers. Hall took a swing at Doughty as he was pulling him out of that little indiscretion last night. Pr!ck.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

"I did all my trash talking before the season began."

I remember being down in a game against JMU where the halftime score was 28-0.

We went on to lose 48-0.

What trash did I talk at the start of the third quarter when I lined up to play strong safety?

"F!ck the scoreboard, this is about me and you B!tch!"

A real playa always has something to say.

No matter the score.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Gano didn't miss the extra point it was blocked thanks to no blocking as usual.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

just don't try and make yourself or JZ out to be martyrs in this whole process

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 |
------------------------------

I think that's Mike Wise's job...lol

Seriously, I think Wise might be mentally unbalanced.

I read his column where he claims the "meddlesome bosses" or whatever "ruined Zorn's life over the last two years."

Are you &*^*^%$ kidding me?

In this economy? I'd LOVE to have my life "ruined" for two years by being paid 7 figures to a coach a pro football team.

Wise should be sent to a competency hearing ASAP.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

So who supports JC?
1. His family
2. Fans with limited knowledge of the game
3. Blacks supporting black players

This guy might be the nicest guy outside football, but a professional QB he is not.

Tod Collins, a backup player with limited natural ability compared to JC, has shown that given the same opportunity JC has had, he can outplayed him.

I blame Gibbs for the cancer on this team.

Posted by: hock1 | December 22, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

In the first quarter, New York ran 25 offensive plays to Washington's three (a three-and-out) and outgained the Redskins 139 yards to minus 3.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Go Colts! Maybe the Browns if Holmgren hires Zorn.

Posted by: SkinsFan2111

Thank you for visiting Redskins Insider Mrs. Zorn

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Mista Moe: Go Dukes! Woof Woof Woof!!!!!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

No one is giving "multiple picks" for this guy and his contract, Jack. If they'd wanted him with that contract, they could have signed him last year when he was a free agent -- without giving up any picks. Now you think after the year he's had that they're thinking "Wow, he's a lot better than we thought. Let's give up a second and a fourth this year plus a third next year for his $91 million contract."

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Ah the resident jerk back. Its only a guaranteed $41 mil contract, not a $91 mil and lots of people wanted him and it was reported that the Giants offer was basically the same offer as ours without the added incentives and options past the guaranteed portion. Not too mention Albert sounds like he hasn't exactly enjoyed his time here so far so who's to say he wouldn't re-do his deal to get moved, wouldn't be the first time that's happened. And anybody who watches tape of the guy can see he's still dominant and playing at a very high level in a system that doesn't utilize his talents. I think absolutely a team would give a first and a 3rd for him. A team like the Patriots with two first round picks, one of which is the Raiders, wouldn't give their late 1st and late 3rd for him? Come on.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

skinsfan2011, choke on a fruit cake on your way to Cleveland, cuz nothing rocks in Cleveland, surely if Zorn goes there.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

With so many distractions, including the resignation last Thursday of Vinny Cerrato and hiring of Bruce Allen as general manager, Campbell said the drama off the football field might finally be catching up to the team.

"You can all sit here and say no it doesn't but at the same, truth is sometimes it can because you hear so much and then you start to focus on it a little bit," Campbell said. "You try not to focus on it, you try to stay within the game but all year we've been blocking out a lot of things and doing pretty good the last couple weeks. And tonight for whatever reason we don't even look the like the same team that played the last four to five weeks, and I have no idea what kind of team we were out there tonight."


By Paul Tenorio | December 22, 2009; 1:29 AM ET

==============================================

Just saying....HE was doing well with his talking points, but here is the Real JC17. Same as everyone else on the team. He has been talking about blocking out everything until last night. And, now he concedes, he has been lying all year long.

We MUST find a trade partner next year for this guy. Him and Carlos. And we need a disciplined type coach. I don't know Shanny is that kind of person.....

Grimm? Maybe.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 22, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Albert's two biggest unsportsmanslike are the direct result of having to step in to slow down what Hall started.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 10:41 AM

Did you eat a big bowl of Grumpies for breakfast today?

Too bad you missed the Hall/Jacobs to-do. Hall started nothing. Jacobs was pulling him around by his face mask, trying to break his neck. When that failed, he threw a punch at Hall.

Posted by: League-Source | December 22, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

"D. Hall has reverted to his inner punk. Albert's two biggest unsportsmanslike are the direct result of having to step in to slow down what Hall started."


Raise you hand if you were against the idea of signing either of these guys last spring.

I was.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Bruce Allen claims he hasn't talked to Shanahan about working together
Posted by Mike Florio on December 22, 2009 10:44 AM ET
New Redskins G.M. Bruce Allen has been described as having plenty of political connections and savvy.

One thing he definitely has mastered is the ability to lie with a smile.

In an on-air interview with ESPN's Stuart Scott prior to Monday night's game against the Giants, Allen said that he hasn't been talking with free-agent coach Mike Shanahan.

Scott asked Allen about the conversations that he has had with Allen regarding the possibility of working together in Washington.

"We don't have those type of discussions," Allen said. The choice of words could imply that they have other types of discussions.

And Allen could be telling the truth; perhaps he and Shanahan haven't talked about the possibility of working together because they already know that they'll be working together.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

As old as Todd Collins is, he faced the same Giants pass rush and hit Moss, then ARE, then Fred Davis for a TD on a beautiful pass, which Davis dropped.

The fake FG... I can't even discuss it....lol... Pathetic.

Posted by: MrRedskin21

The arguements for keeping JC and building a line are fine, but imagine if TC (or even better a young accurate passer)has a line. TC is so much more accurate and decisive than JC it isn't even close.
I too hate the self-promoting antics that Santana does, but my take on the ball spin is that he's been so frustrated by JC not throwing to him and TC comes in and immediately gives him a chance. Can't tell me 'Tana hasn't been open all year. Not buying that.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Albert's two biggest unsportsmanslike are the direct result of having to step in to slow down what Hall started.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 10:41 AM

Maybe you weren't watching but Hall started nothing, he hit Jacobs (who had the ball btw) as the whistles were blowing, Jacobs didn't like it, grabbed his facemask and jerked it all around then threw a punch and squared off and threw two more before Albert even got there. It was ridiculous that they didn't eject Jacobs, and guaranteed he'll be fined.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

No matter the score.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Thing is, I really don't want to defend this team anymore. They need to give me a reason first. Start by cutting some players and giving Zorn the boot

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Bruce should lie all he wants...sick of the resident coach thinking that answering every question the press puts out there needs a 1500 word answer...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

chrislarry

"Go Dukes! Woof Woof Woof!"


Bro', their j.v. team scored two touchdowns on us.

Their cheerleaders threw mustard coated hot dogs at us.

And who did I cover most of that game?

Some guy named Gary Clark.

Maybe you heard of him.

'Cuz you damn sure ain't heard of me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

The Giants knew all the plays and formations the Skins were calling, courtesy of NFL technology- the NFL needs the NY market to have a playoff race (Hey, it's just business), so Danny assumed the position for another NFL reem-job..Isn't that his job??

Posted by: frak | December 22, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

does JZ have a presser today

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

JMU Baby!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Agreed. Moss is still the most dynamic player on this team. You trade him: Who replaces him in the lineup? Besides DT, he's the only deep threat you have. And believe me, teams still respect Moss more then any other WR on this team. He still gets open better then anyone on the roster, its just that he hasn't gotten the ball like he could have.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

BB lies all the time but it's OK because they win.

Parcells is the same way.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

From ESPN Insider:

Clausen to Redskins?
9:48AM ET
Washington Redskins
Top Email

After last night's performance by Jason Campbell, what are the chances the Redskins don't take a QB in next April's NFL Draft? Like, two percent? It's looking more and more like a Mike Shanahan-hire as head coach and a first round drafting of a franchise quarterback are inevitable at this point.

But which quarterback would they take? ESPN draft expert Todd McShay has them picking Oklahoma's Sam Bradford in his most recent mock draft. But let's say, for the sake of argument, Bradford is gone by the time Washington is on the clock. Would they reach for Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen, considered by McShay to be more of a late-first round talent? We're just speculating here, but he definitely meets the criteria of big-name star -- something owner Dan Snyder goes for year after year in free agency (see: Haynesworth, Albert). And based on McShay's assessment, Clausen could be a fit for Shanahan's version of the West Coast offense (assuming the former Broncos coach ends up in D.C.)

Of course, things didn't end well for the last Notre Dame quarterback who wore number 7 for the Redskins ...

Todd McShay

Latest 2010 mock draft

"There are concerns about Clausen's release and he doesn't have ideal arm strength, but his mobility and accuracy underneath would make him a good fit for a West Coast offense."

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

I tell you though, I would not want go toe to toe with AH, he looked as serious as death when stepping up to beat Jacobs, azz. Jacob threw punches and hit mostly nothing, AH threw that left and right and looked menacing.

Jacobs is a punk, Hall is worse. I would not be surprised if they try and dump Hall in the off season or trade??

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 22, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Right, Wes Welker, Richard Seymour, Randy Moss, Clinton Portis, Champ Bailey, Gaines Adams, Roy Williams, Phillip Rivers and Eli Manning, Tony Gonzalez, Matt Shaub, Jay Cutler, Samson Satele, Anthony Henry, Jon Kitna, Lito Shepherd, Sage Rosenfels, Kellen Winslow, Brett Favre, DeWayne Robertson, Jared Allen, and DeAngelo Hall all think NFL trades are impossible......

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 10:35 AM


Did I say trades are "impossible", or uncommon?

I definitely said uncommon.

And listing 22 players (some of whom were traded for each other, I might add) from various trades over the last 5 years only proves my point.

Instead of randomly listing guys who have been traded in their careers, why don't you scare up an instance in which a single team made 3 or more trades in a single offseason like you're proposing the Redskins do?

THEN you'll have something.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

does JZ have a presser today

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 10:55 AM |

Yes I think it's on at 12:30 espn980.com

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Re: Jacobs hitting Hall ... I did miss it (sorry) and didn't get the replay (FedEx doesn't do replays), but he still stayed on the field for the party that Jacobs started ... and swung at Doughty trying to get him away from the action.

And, yes, I woke up with the grumpies, after about 4.5 hours of sleep (though the feeling did return to my toes by morning).

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Excuse me for cutting in line without looking at the discussion first, but how in the world was Jim Zorn allowed to take the field as coach in the 2nd half? How did Bruce Allen NOT go into the locker room and fire his [backside] after that fake field goalbingus?

It just looked like Zorn was giving a big ol' "up yours" to the organization. Beyond embarrassing.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 22, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

thanks flound, curious what he has to say....

moe
The Yankees have reached an agreement to acquire Javier Vazquez in a five-player deal with the Braves, SI.com has learned. The deal would send Vazquez and Boone Logan to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and a prospect to Atlanta.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

The Giants knew all the plays and formations the Skins were calling, courtesy of NFL technology- the NFL needs the NY market to have a playoff race (Hey, it's just business), so Danny assumed the position for another NFL reem-job..Isn't that his job??

Posted by: frak | December 22, 2009 10:55 AM


Wrong blog, dude. The conspiracy theory stuff belongs in the NBA...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Sween,

We could finish as high as 3 but that's unlikely (i.e., Detroit would have to win out). Looks most likely that we'll finish in the 5-7 range. If we lose out and KC wins 1 or more, we're a lock for the 5th spot. You know who might be there?? I'll give you a clue- his first name with with Muscle. His last name rhymes with Mokung.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 22, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

I already said last night that that game was the worst game I have ever witnessed as a 'Skins fan. The really strange thing about the whole viewing experience was how embarrassed that I personally felt. I am not a part of the organization. I don't play on the field. I just sit on the couch and yell or cheer (rarely) at the TV. The game was so cringe-worthy that for the first time this season I could not bear to watch the entire game. We will lose 12 games. If last night showed us anything, it showed us that we will not beat both the 'Girls and Chargers.

How appropriate that the coach that won the last division championship for the 'Skins is now ending the 'Skins worst season in 15 years. Norv Turner has won three straight division championships and four in the past ten years.

Posted by: MyPostIDisAfake | December 22, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Instead of randomly listing guys who have been traded in their careers, why don't you scare up an instance in which a single team made 3 or more trades in a single offseason like you're proposing the Redskins do?

THEN you'll have something.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Here may be where our mis-communication started and re-reading my post its my fault. I'm not suggesting they trade Moss, Fletcher, and Haynesworth and I get that's the way it read, sorry. I am suggesting that nobody is safe and nor should they be, they need more picks and if they can make a trade to do so they should. If they can move any of those three they should, I agree, the chances of trading Moss, Fletcher, Albert, and Landry all in one offseason is about as likely as Campbell making a quick read with an accurate pass to a receiver in stride....it just aint gonna happen. But moving one of them for a pick or a couple picks could, and we need picks more than we need them right now as we're 3 years from contending.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

It just looked like Zorn was giving a big ol' "up yours" to the organization. Beyond embarrassing.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 22, 2009 11:00 AM


Wise said the same thing in his column...I'm not buying that because if anyone catches wind of Zorn doing that, he'll never work in this league again. Of course, if he REALLY thought that play would work he'll likely never work in this league again anyway...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

ga8085

"Thing is, I really don't want to defend this team anymore."


Have some perpsective, sir.

The team played on emotion for 4 weeks.

Last night's collapse should've been expected at some point.

Emotion can't cover up all your weaknesses.

And this team has been getting by with B-level guys playing their guts out.

The giants still have the backbone of team that won a Super Bowl against one of the teamof the ages: the 2007 New England Patriots.

We were kinda supposed to lose.

But not as bad as we did.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

If Shanahan comes here, or whoever comes here from another team previously, you should look at the O-linemen they had to see if any are still good. They would most likely be the first tagets of a coach coming in for the Skins. The draft can help, but signing low-mid priced free agents that the coach knows would help turn it around much faster.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Two things I like about Shanahan: 1.He doesn't care if your last name is Hall, Landry, Moss, Portis -- I could keep going but not enough room on this thread -- but, if you don't produce you sit. He will not be timid when it comes to cleaning house.
2. He's done a great job drafting, which has been another Redskin weakness. Was looking at his 2006 draft: Let's save the Cutler argument for later, but he was the third QB taken that year at spot #11, behind Vince Young and Matt Leinert. Other early QB picks that year were N. Clemons (NYJ) and T. Jackson (Minn). Same draft got he took Brandon Marshal in the 4th, Elvis Dumervill 5th, and Dominick Hixon (now a Giant) in the 6th. Also drafted a tight end who's still on Denver's roster. If Shanny's given control, I think he can turn this thing around over time. It's imperative that two things must happen though: Allen and Shanny need to make all football decisions and we, the fans, must show some patience. This hoped-for transformation won't take place overnight.

Posted by: bones21 | December 22, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Zorn will take some team to the Super Bowl. Unfortunately, it won't be the Redskins.

So Zorn's next career will be as a bus driver?

Posted by: daggar | December 22, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

LOL

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

beep beep, although it looks like it's a poll

Posted by: daggar | December 22, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

NotoriousLMG, thx. So is this Okung fella as top rate as he's slotted to be? From the stuff I've read, if the Skins DID pick third, and the Heisman-nominated Camaroonian is available, I would forgive not using the top five pick for him. Suh sounds like he's on a high shelf than any defensive lineman in many moons. Maybe Skins could package one of the redundant up-stepped DTs (Golston or Lozo) for a trade up elsewhere later one.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

In the case of your last post, I agree with most of where you're going. I thought you were in the "trade everybody" crowd, the same clowns talking about getting a 1 and a 3 for Cooley.

There definitely aren't any sacred cows here, so I would enthusiastically back a full overhaul of the roster and building this thing right. That's the most important function of the new Allen regime, and I just hope that Snyder doesn't pressure these guys to the point that we continue the same "band-aid over a gunshot wound" approach to fixing what ails this team.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Last I read Burce Allen was FIRED from Tampa....All Bruce Allen has done is ride on OLD VETS coat tails once these vets can no longer produce he moves on or gets fired....He doesnt know how to develop young players and is NOT a good scout, look at all his 5 championships or whatever and see how he got there...vets and then he left ALL those franchises in shambles as he never had a plan. A name can not buy success people...Sorry fans...
My advice to you is to ask the Native Redskins for forgiveness for desecrating their name and to take the CURSE back...Is the only way dont you think?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Last I read Burce Allen was FIRED from Tampa....All Bruce Allen has done is ride on OLD VETS coat tails once these vets can no longer produce he moves on or gets fired....He doesnt know how to develop young players and is NOT a good scout, look at all his 5 championships or whatever and see how he got there...vets and then he left ALL those franchises in shambles as he never had a plan. A name can not buy success people...Sorry fans...
My advice to you is to ask the Native Redskins for forgiveness for desecrating their name and to take the CURSE back...Is the only way dont you think?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Last I read Burce Allen was FIRED from Tampa....All Bruce Allen has done is ride on OLD VETS coat tails once these vets can no longer produce he moves on or gets fired....He doesnt know how to develop young players and is NOT a good scout, look at all his 5 championships or whatever and see how he got there...vets and then he left ALL those franchises in shambles as he never had a plan. A name can not buy success people...Sorry fans...
My advice to you is to ask the Native Redskins for forgiveness for desecrating their name and to take the CURSE back...Is the only way dont you think?

Posted by: Incognito00 | December 22, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I hope Bruce Allen went through a couple of pens last night. The list is going to be awfully long. I can't wait to see how he approaches the draft and offseason pick-ups. Especially with an uncapped year approaching. It could be The Jerry and Danny show and who can write the checks the fastest.

Posted by: clark202 | December 22, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

WHY WON'T THE OFF-SEASON GET HERE ANY FASTER?!?!

Posted by: MyPostIDisAfake | December 22, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

You guys are talking about all of these trades the Redskins can make, but let me ask you a question: if your team just had a miserable, embarassing, losing season and you wanted to trade a player to another team, who has all of the leverage? The Redskins will not get value out of any trade. Teams will avoid making trades with them because they will be afraid to catch what Washington has. I'm thinking now that the Redskins should try to re-sign Carlos Rogers and Campbell. They need to hold on to the players that have some value. Maybe they will get lucky and make a trade, but I don't think it would be anything to get excited about.

BTW, Moss is a pretty good wide receiver, but mis-cast in the current offense. Keep him around, put him in the slot and look for great things to happen. ARE should go for he offers no trade value and the team doesn't need two slot receivers.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

matt,

There will be no cap in 2010.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse
---------------------------------------

Ok, so 'cap number' was a bit of a misnomer. Substitute 'salary' and the point still is that - cap or no cap - we cant move our under-performers via trade.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

To all the Campbell haters, be careful what you wish for. Campbell will end up in Carolina or Minnesota and you will see what he can do with a running game and a line. My feeling it will end up just like Brad Johnson in Tampa.

Posted by: kingd1225 | December 22, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Some of those hits on JC were late. Refs should have been on that from the get go.

Posted by: dclifer97 | December 22, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

That fake field goal was the most entertaining thing they did all night. Loved it! Hope Snyder enjoyed getting his butt handed to him on MNF. By the 3rd quarter - it looked like a Giants pre-season game. Did anyone see Snyder's stat chart late in the game - it's terrible what he's done to this team...terrible! Burgandy Revolution...suuuuuuuuuure, believe it when I see it. Sigh.

Posted by: JBuss | December 22, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

rsh, shotgun on passing downs, roll jc out of the pocket, have the RB actually CHIP the DE on their way out of the pocket, 6 ol, I don't know, pick one......but again, to do what they did, and expect it to work, just becuase you 'called it to work' is galactically stupid....

expecting Heyer to handle tuck, is kind of dumb, so when they just did nothing other than expecting Heyer to handle tuck, thats just stupid....for the sake of stupidity...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Exactly, to whoever said you can't judge Zorn that's moronic. The guy has had two seasons and the team just spirals worse and worse. That fake FG, the most idiotic thing I've seen in watching 30 years of professional football. The game planning was horrendous which Zorn still does supposedly. Just what Bean said, where was the shotgun, bootleg, roll the pocket, and why wasn't the team blitzing an oline starting a rookie and two backups instead of sitting back in zone coverage against a good qb and a good receiving corps? Beyond that, why was a gimpy Heyer locked up all night one on one against Tuck?

Yes, Campbell doesn't get rid of the ball fast enough or make accurate throws proven by his picks and Collins' brief series coming in off a cold bench. Yes, the oline is under manned. But the scheming on both sides of the ball was moronic at best. Certainly you can argue the roster is talent deficient, but so is the coaching and that judgment is easy to come to, I'm sure Allen noticed both.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 22, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Trade Cooley. Sorry. More valuable as trade bait.

Good picks/players can be gotten for him.

Keep Fred Davis. Reminds me of Antonio Gates.

Cut ties to "The U" Portis and Moss...bye.

Get a speedy RB.

Posted by: keithrjackson | December 22, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Who was calling plays last night? Seemed to me that w/out Vinny, playcalling duties went back to Zorn and the end result...

Posted by: dc1020008 | December 22, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Comments about Bruce Allen are so stupid, i shouldn't even be taking the time to read them.

Give this guy three years and let's see what kind of playoff magic he can dial up.

Certainly, the situation that Snyder has created (similar to the one he created when he fired Norv at the end of the 2000 season) will result in two more pathetic efforts by the Skins, but in the long run, this team will be much better off.

Posted by: dc1020008 | December 22, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Comments about Bruce Allen are so stupid, i shouldn't even be taking the time to read them.

Give this guy three years and let's see what kind of playoff magic he can dial up.

Certainly, the situation that Snyder has created (similar to the one he created when he fired Norv at the end of the 2000 season) will result in two more pathetic efforts by the Skins, but in the long run, this team will be much better off.

Posted by: dc1020008 | December 22, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Trade Cooley. Sorry. More valuable as trade bait.
Good picks/players can be gotten for him.
Keep Fred Davis. Reminds me of Antonio Gates.
Cut ties to "The U" Portis and Moss...bye.
Get a speedy RB.

You're right Keith - but I still think Cooley can contribute and we should keep him. Davis too.
The others though - whiners and complainers who've done nothing but hurt the chemistry of this team for two years - they need to go.
Problem is without a complete revamping of the O-Line, nothing else will matter - speedy RB or not.

Posted by: vgolpher | December 22, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

"Todd can only throw that one pass across the middle. The defense makes 1 adjustment and shuts him down.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 22, 2009 9:43 AM"

PAskinsfan17 (and other Campbell apologists),

Really? That's interesting, because in the KC game Collins' initial big toss to Moss was between the numbers and the sideline. Moss ran it INTO the middle of the field...but that is NOT where it was thrown.

Last nights pass was also between the numbers and the sideline.

[NOTE: Both were thrown to the same SIDE of the field which is one of Collins' proclivities on the long [er] ball...and, yes I DO sit down with the 'ol DVR and break down footage multiple times...not just base my analysis on 1 time viewing where I might have had divided attention then follow up with some assorted highlight package re-runs...and NO, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.]

The four consecutive wins by Collins led 'Skins to make the playoffs were pretty good, as was Collins' play VS Seattle, until the team lost TWO O-linemen in the same game.

Any explanation of how ANY of that happened with Collins' limited skills and abilities?

Or why it HASN'T happened for Campbell?

No, of course not...there NEVER is. Not in FIVE YEARS.

Oh yeah PA (& pals...), Collins also completes HIS screen passes to the OFFENSIVE players on HIS team instead of to opposing defenders.

Not so much for the 'ol #17 car [BTW, there was NO pass rush when Campbell through THAT pick six...so I anxiously await your (and others') apologist excuses on/for that play.].

I'm not saying Collins is god's gift to football, the pinnicle of the QB position, or even great...not at all.
I'm not saying Collins is the better athlete, that he is tougher, or has more heart.

I AM stating, that historically, Collins makes better decisions (and fewer game changing mistakes) than Jason Campbell as a starting QB.

I AM stating that Collins makes decisions faster, gets through more reads under pressure, and in doing so MINIMIZES the negative effects of having a patchwork line on pass plays.

I AM stating that stable QB play with quick decision making in turn keeps the line fresher, which also keeps the line (and offense) in better rythym, and creates more opportunities for the offense, and chances to rest the defense with resulting long drives.

Collins provides that type of result as the rule regardless of competition and not the exception based on his play as a Redskin, Campbell doesn't. In fact Campbell does the opposite.

The facts back me up on this.

So in summary PA (and other Campbell apologists). Put the pipe down, because crack is your enemy, my brother...

dismissed...

Posted by: ThinkingMan | December 22, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

"JC is on pace to play all 16 games behind the worst line in football. "Your boy" Todd Collins wouldn't last 16 minutes behind that line.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2009 9:57 AM"

Okay, let's address the innaccuracies in order.

1) "Worst line in football" It's not even the worst line Campbell & Collins have played behind. When Jason got hurt and Todd stewarded the team to the run to the post season...Jansen was hurt, Samuels was on 1/2 of one knee, Kendall was dinged, Ray FRIGGIN' Brown was starting for cryin' out loud...

So do you want to maybe rethink THAT little piece of "fact"?

2) his/my/our "boy" Mr. Collins took a team with an injured and absent Santana Moss to the playoffs behind above mentioned "worst line in history" (the amended version), and won 4 of five games...

point two disproved...not on much of a roll eh, brownwood?

Again, Collins isn't a savior, hero, the answer, or the (permanent) cure to the QB woes, merely a better salve and dressing of the team wound at the position.

nothing more, nothing less...

Posted by: ThinkingMan | December 22, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Vinny is gone great START.. Zorn is next to go.. also needed. But Campbell also has to go.. He had NO leadership ability. He can't read defenses.. he can't throw deep.. Collins hasn't thrown a pass in 2 years yet he completed a deep pass.. when was the last time Campbell did??? Campbell MUST GO!! In fact I would bench him the rest of the year.. use his shoulder as an excuse.. Let Collins play and see how he looks.. Skins will need a veteran QB next year as they work in the NEW starting QB...

Posted by: sovine08 | December 23, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

how about your own crappy play campbell .... you failed to mention that.... get rid of this guy

Posted by: bestmick1 | December 23, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

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