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Cooley surgery 'went well'

The surgery to repair tight end Chris Cooley's broken ankle has been completed and his brother, Tanner Cooley (@tannercooley), provides an update and photo via Twitter: "Everything went well." Share photos on twitter with Twitpic

By Cindy Boren  |  October 28, 2009; 8:37 AM ET
 
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Next: After surgery, Cooley could be back in four weeks

Comments

I'm happy that all went well. I still think they should put him on IR. With the season going the way it is, there is no sense in rushing him back and risking further injury. I am sure Cooley can use the time to commentate or something along those lines.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

I second that...

Posted by: gixxer998 | October 28, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Disagree, we may need to up his trade value at the end of the year as he is one of the only trade-worthy assets we have. Hate to see him go, but seriously, the organization (assuming that they catch a case of intelligence or sanity) has to keep their options open. The year is lost, but Cooley might be able to fetch a high 2nd rounder + a 4th and 5th. Would hate to see him go.

Posted by: HughGRection | October 28, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Davis and Cooley can be two very good weapons as their abilities--if used right--can create match up headaches for teams who want to commit a safety to run support.

If anything, the lack of playing time for the obviously gifted player Davis speaks to the failures of Zorn.

Amen moe, AMEN....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

I'm happy that all went well. I still think they should put him on IR. With the season going the way it is, there is no sense in rushing him back and risking further injury. I am sure Cooley can use the time to commentate or something along those lines.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

_______________

I'm sure Cooley would rather play and earn whatever performance incentive money he can.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Now is def the time to stay medium.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

No trading Cooley. He is a valuable part of the team. Davis has 7-8 catches and Cooley is expendable? No way. We need to further evaluate talent the rest of this year. Thought I doubt they will concede this until mathematical elimination.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 28, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Cooley would do well to just take the rest of the season off and rehab it properly. Coming back too soon risks reoccurrence or worse. Besides, the Skins should be able to convert his roster spot into some much needed help for the O-Line. Dithering along serves no one. And its not like anyone else is playing for a win anyway.

Posted by: Vic1 | October 28, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

ALL HAIL LORD DARTH SNYDER !!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: LMichael1 | October 28, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

If anything, the lack of playing time for the obviously gifted player Davis speaks to the failures of Zorn.

Amen moe, AMEN....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

The failure of Davis falls on Vinny. He's gifted yes, but has his issues 1. 2. That guy never should have been drafted unless it was the intention of the team to run out of 2 TE sets. (Something distinctly un-West Coast offense). Even then they should have taken a TE in the 5th or so who can block with some recieving skills.

I wonder if we could have used that 2nd rounder on a...oh i dunno OFFENSIVE F'n LINEMAN. I digress...

That's the problem with this team. There is no overall vision.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

I am glad he is doing well. I hope he doesn't rush to come back too soon. He could seriously hurt himself, or the other leg by over compensating.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | October 28, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Trade Cooley? If a new GM comes in and makes that decision, I will accept it. I wont LIKE it, but I will accept it. I would think the more likely scenario is Davis plays well for at least 4 games if COoley does in fact come back after a month. This will increase trade value for Davis, who is younger and has shown potential. If the Skins decide to

FIRE VINNY!!!

then the new GM would hopefully not be as stupid as Vincento and see that 2 good TE's is NOT a good allocation of resources and make a frickin' trade!

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 28, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

gweez, the larger problem is that, given the lack of time machine, Davis is here, and right, wrong, or otherwise, needs to be utilized. I think we're going to see in the coming weeks that this cat can play, sure he needs to work on his blocking, but not utilizing this guy, appears to be a lack of vision by the coach....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Cooley is NOT getting traded. He's probably the most liked player on the team by local fans. Dan's stupid, but not that stupid.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Check out the Bog, Snyder has banned all signs at FecEx regardless of the message. Team spokesman Donovan said this has been the teams/stadium policy since forever. Funny how the policy changed and the team says it hasnt... Donovan also comments that its ridiculous that the new stadium policies are to protect the owners image... yeah, that would be ridiculous.

Im in VB, so not going to a game isnt that hard. But I WILL NOT attend a game until a new GM is given autonomy and DS steps away.

FIRE VINNY!!!

WAKE UP SNYDER!!!

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 28, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

Agree with the hindsight comment. However you have Cooley. So his options were to either remove Cooley for Davis who was a liability blocking with limited knowledge of the playbook or abandon the WCO at times and run out of a two TE formation.

I put this on Danny and Vinny. They decide to take a team built on power running JG vertical offense and u-turn to WCO. In your first draft you take two WR's, ok fine. But then in typical Danny fashion he had a, "Oh shiny object lets get it!" moment and drafts another pass catching TE?

I can't blame Zorn for that anymore than i'd blame Blache if we drafted a nose tackle then he sat the bench in the 4-3.

Z-man has plenty to do with this teams ills but Davis' lack of playing time aint on him.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

gweez, the larger problem is that, given the lack of time machine, Davis is here, and right, wrong, or otherwise, needs to be utilized. I think we're going to see in the coming weeks that this cat can play, sure he needs to work on his blocking, but not utilizing this guy, appears to be a lack of vision by the coach....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

It was one game. Can we not start with the "Davis is obviously a stud, the coaching staff is stupid for not playing him" jargon? Let's see how he does against ATL, NO, F Dallas, Denver, SD, etc...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

va, agreed, I'm south of Boston, and I'm not going to any games either.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

limited knowledge of the playbook - he seemed to do well when given the shot, so much like the alarm clock thing, and being, 'perfect' I'm not buying into this too much....

ml, yeah, agreed, it was only one game, all I'm trying to point out is that Davis was given the chance and he responded. My only question is why hasn't this happened before?? Why did it take a new play caller to get Davis/Thomas involved?? How is it that in the previous 23 games guys couldn't get open or didn't know the playbook, but suddenly in the game versus Philly, it seemed to click??

Don't misconstue...these guys have a LONG way to go...maybe Sherm doesn't expect them to be perfect, maybe sherm puts them in a situation that utilizes their skills...makes me wonder why the coach didn't do this....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

gweez

"That's the problem with this team. There is no overall vision."

This happens because without a strong general manager, there's no articulation between talent acquistion and coaching philosophy.

What seems to happen with the skins is, Vinny sees what looks like a great player and gets him, even when the guy doesn't have a stated purpose for the team.

Then, whoever is coaching tries to figure out how to use him and then gets his play calling duties taken away as he can't figure out how to make the pieces all fit together.

What should happen is, the coach says, "Hey, I need a tackle and a center that fit these specific abilities as they match what we do."

And the lack of what should be happening is why losing is all that's happening with this team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

We don't need to trade Cooley. He's young enough that by the time we are good he'll be a good vet that can provide good solid leadership. With a competent GM we could make a run in 2012-2013. Cooley will still only be ~30 when that happens. We need to build a line this year and worry about skill positions next year. Of course this is all subject to change on draft day. If C.J. Spiller were to fall to the second round then you take him there. It's alright to have a plan but you have to use some common sense.

Our needs are mostly offensive.

1 LT
2 RT
3 C
4 RG
5 RB
6 QB
7 SLB
8 FS
9 CB
10 ILB

We could knock out our 4 greatest needs in this years draft. If we take

R1 LT
R2 RT
R4 C

Then move BMW to RG.

In 2011 we can look at getting a RB and QB in the first 2 rounds. The important thing is to remember that we have a lot of our young talent becoming free agents in 2012. We need to stay out of the free agent market until after 2012. We will need a lot of money to resign those guys. We need to use free agency for what it is. Free agency is duct tape. It'll patch a hole long enough to get you where you are going. We are not a car with a leaky radiator hose. We are not 1 piece of duct tape away from a super bowl. No more free agents. We can try to flip some of the guys we plan on replacing but there's no need to get rid of god young players like Chris Cooley.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Yup Moe that's what i was saying. It's the "shiny object".

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

New playcaller didn't get Davis involved. Cooley's injury did. Again, it's easy to blame Zorn but he was told to keep the Skins power I running game. (2 people) 5 olineman, 1 qb and you have cooley.

That's 9 people. So you either put in 2 TE's and 1 reciever and not run the WCO offense or Davis sits the bench. WCO's don't run with two TE's. Zorn is a WCO guy.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Don't misconstue...these guys have a LONG way to go...maybe Sherm doesn't expect them to be perfect, maybe sherm puts them in a situation that utilizes their skills...makes me wonder why the coach didn't do this....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I get what you're saying. Other side of the coin is that Zorn was 6-2 last year at one point, and we were scoring points and doing a lot of creative stuff, then we fell off and have since crashed. Now Zorn certainly shares the blame in that, but I don't think he got dumb overnight. The system worked well for 8 games last season. Combo of offensive line, defensive coordinators getting tape on him and a feel for his play calling, lack of adjustments, and a vanilla approach this year prob did it. Maybe Sherm came in and said screw the conservative approach, let's mix it up...I dunno. Maybe it's on Campbell for not getting them the ball sooner. I just don't think it all falls on Zorn's lap...

Don't get me wrong though, not calling the guy a genius...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

What seems to happen with the skins is, Vinny sees what looks like a great player and gets him, even when the guy doesn't have a stated purpose for the team.

Then, whoever is coaching tries to figure out how to use him and then gets his play calling duties taken away as he can't figure out how to make the pieces all fit together.

What should happen is, the coach says, "Hey, I need a tackle and a center that fit these specific abilities as they match what we do."

And the lack of what should be happening is why losing is all that's happening with this team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Moe, this goes along with Vinnys BFA draft philosophy. If you can actually make yourself believe hes actually smart enough to actually have a "philosophy" you can see that its flawed. Hes sitting there next to the draft phone in April drooling over 2 WR and a TE with his 3 2nd round picks he acquired. Granted, trading and acquiring the 3 2nd round picks was a good thing. But taking guys that dont fit team needs just because they were deemed by the team as BPA on their draft board is MORONIC. You have to take into account team needs AND bpa/draft board and make a weighted decision. I do this when I play madden... somehow Vinny can't figure this out and he's running a real team. Well at least their supposed to be a team... idk anymore.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 28, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Non-Football Post

We see the Phillies winning in 6 games.

The Yanks will get no hitting from either Swisher/Damon/Matsui (and all these guys will be gone from the Yankees by Thanksgiving).

Burnett will get rocked by Werth/Ibanez/Howard.

Jayson Werth will be the Series MVP--he's a great player, maybe better than Howard overall.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

New playcaller didn't get Davis involved. Cooley's injury did. Again, it's easy to blame Zorn but he was told to keep the Skins power I running game. (2 people) 5 olineman, 1 qb and you have cooley.

That's 9 people. So you either put in 2 TE's and 1 reciever and not run the WCO offense or Davis sits the bench. WCO's don't run with two TE's. Zorn is a WCO guy.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

___________________

Good coaches modify their system to utilize available talent. This team doesn't have a fullback in the Tom Rathman mold who is multipurpose. They didn't have that in Green Bay either, and they had a lot of 2 TE sets when Favre was there because of it.

But honestly, Fred Davis is a liability in the blocking scheme... and I think that has more to do with him not being on the field than anything else. Hopefully that part of his game improves.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Rebuilding this team (IMO) relies on 2 key decisions that Danny needs to make.

These are definitely "bite-the-bullet" decisions, but if Danny can make them, there will be great hope for the Skins in the IMMEDIATE future.

Decision 1:
Vinny get fired and replaced with legitimate football people in the FO.

Decision 2:
(Assuming next season is uncapped) Danny decides to pay out the wahzoo to purge the roster, pay out the dead cap money all at once, and do his best free this team from salary cap hell.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I am starting to hate Jim Zorn with each time he opens his mouth and sh!t comes out of it. I know fans in Seattle aren't intelligent in a footbal sense. But here on the East Coast where most of us grew up around football and played it knows better.

In one of the questions asked to him the other day regarding play alling, he said he will be frank and that he believed in his playcalling and knows it can be successful. He then said, I just can't give you any 'fluff' on that.

So....You give us 'fluff' on everything else?

Also....HAve they stopped playing loud music before practice? That needs to stop. The whole way they practice needs to stop. How about going full contact? I thought that's what happens when SJK ain't getting done right? Not just repeating the same dang thing??

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

dfbovey

"Good coaches modify their system to utilize available talent....Fred Davis is a liability in the blocking scheme..."


So doesn't this mean the coach modifies his scheme to use the 260 pound Davis as a 'flexed' tight end who doesn't block, but take advantage of his size against a safety and speed against a linebacker?

Let Sellars and Yoder block.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Play-calling observation:

It looked early on like 2 things were happening with the play-calls.

1) Campbell was getting moved around. Alot of bootlegs early on.

This is good b/c of a shaky Oline and because Campbell is pretty good on his feet.

2) Ball was going into Cooley.

This is good because you want to lead with your strengths to get a rhythm going and the Eagles have been atrocious covering TEs. Do something until they stop you. Use your best players early and often.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Rebuilding this team (IMO) relies on 2 key decisions that Danny needs to make.

These are definitely "bite-the-bullet" decisions, but if Danny can make them, there will be great hope for the Skins in the IMMEDIATE future.

Decision 1:
Vinny get fired and replaced with legitimate football people in the FO.

Decision 2:
(Assuming next season is uncapped) Danny decides to pay out the wahzoo to purge the roster, pay out the dead cap money all at once, and do his best free this team from salary cap hell.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

__________________

Decision 2 might not be relevant if there's no cap. If someone comes in and wants to gut the offense though, it would definitely make it a less painful process. Because then you don't have to worry about the cap ramifications of Samuels retiring, cutting Smoot, Randel El and so on.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

First before you post wipe the sperm cocktail off your chin. Yeah the one you got from Vinny.

Sorry I wasn't in that conga line punk I was busy showing your wifey what a great cunning linquist I am. Sorry I don't swing that way but your wifey said you do.

Now little girl do you have anything you want to say to me in person. Your wifey
will be in suite 2405 at the Tyson's Ritz
Saturday night. Why not stop by so we can discuss! I know you will be trick or treating as Vinny's and Danny Boy's trick!

Posted by: vaherder | October 28, 2009 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Wow, that's a lot of scary tough talk from a guy who specializes in homo-erotic fantasies. You're pure BS. You couldn't afford the Ritz Carlton or my wife. You'll be at the Red Roof Inn with your cousin's husband.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

trade cooley??? you have got to be kidding me...if they trade/cut cooley before hes not productive anymore (unless it brings us a pro bowl QB or LT), then I'm done as a fan of this crap. Stupid ideas like that are what has gotten us into this sinking ship already...btw, cooley just called elliot in the morning and said hes doing great and that Jim Zorn scrubbed in the surgery and was with him the whole way...i guess he really is bored now that he isn't calling plays

Posted by: ae3td | October 28, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

This Davis convo is like discussing a hang nail on a cancer patient. Davis inclusion or exclusion from the team aint the problemo here.

On a side note. Not sure if this has ever been posted but check out this article from 1999 written in the chronicle about Vinny.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/1999/07/30/SP88607.DTL

2 Things:

1. Hit the nail on the head with Vinny.

2. Just think, we were coming off a playoff win with 3 First Rounders. Man we coulda been a contender.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Now is def the time to stay medium.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 9:18 AM

Stay medium? I'm hoping we get back up to medium while Jim Zorn is coach. We're not even rare yet -- we're still defrosting.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Decision 2:
(Assuming next season is uncapped) Danny decides to pay out the wahzoo to purge the roster, pay out the dead cap money all at once, and do his best free this team from salary cap hell.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

__________________

Decision 2 might not be relevant if there's no cap. If someone comes in and wants to gut the offense though, it would definitely make it a less painful process. Because then you don't have to worry about the cap ramifications of Samuels retiring, cutting Smoot, Randel El and so on.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse


If there is no cap, Snyder is still on the hook for paying out the dead cap money that is on the books.

The advantage is that there is no cap to constrain what that final number is going to be.

Danny would not have to continue to string out dead cap money from the likes of Lloyd, Archuleta, et al.over the years of their "contracts". He could pay it off in one lump sum.

The reason he can't pay it off in one lump sum now is because that money counts against the cap, and we would go way over the cap in any given year.

If next year is uncapped he is free to make a giant payment on that dead money to clear the books.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

So doesn't this mean the coach modifies his scheme to use the 260 pound Davis as a 'flexed' tight end who doesn't block, but take advantage of his size against a safety and speed against a linebacker?

Let Sellars and Yoder block.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

_________________

I think that's a good plan with Cooley out.

But I'm thinking more about how you could utilize both Cooley and Davis on the field at the same time. We didn't really see that.

I think if Davis continues to prove himself, it creates an interesting circumstance once Cooley is healthy.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Off topic a bit but is anyone else amused that the Skins' FO is trying to pick a fight with the Washington Post? Donovan was an idiot on the radio yesterday, but beyond that, it just shows how stupid the organization is. Banning signs at games, trashing the paper that covers the team? You can't win those fights, and it just looks petty, even if you are in the right. Journalists always have the last word...and alienating the fan base? Good call!

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

I'll with hold planning my game plan around Davis till he oh i dunno plays two good NFL games. Till then i'd be worried about keeping the QB from serious injury.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Off topic a bit but is anyone else amused that the Skins' FO is trying to pick a fight with the Washington Post? Donovan was an idiot on the radio yesterday, but beyond that, it just shows how stupid the organization is. Banning signs at games, trashing the paper that covers the team? You can't win those fights, and it just looks petty, even if you are in the right. Journalists always have the last word...and alienating the fan base? Good call!

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse


Yup.

Kind of like the White House picking a fight with Fox News.

Don't you guys have more important things to focus on?

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Ok, no signs allowed, no anti-dan t-shirts - what can you do?

This is a simple idea, and if publicized, could be done.

Everyone should get a t-shirt or sweatshirt, blank white or gray, doesen't really matter.

Use dye, spray paint, marker, tape, whatever.

Create a "universal ban" logo (slash in circle) around an S. You can make the S a dollar sign if you'd like.

If thousands of people did this, and wore their "NO S" shirts to the garme, it would make a splash. If 10s of thousands of people did this....

It's simple, requires little or no money and easily communicated.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

That article on Vinny coming to DC says he had 3 1st rounders from Casserly? Can someone refresh my memory on what the team did with those picks? It wasnt Samuels/Lavar right? Those were Casserly picks I thought...

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 28, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

I'll with hold planning my game plan around Davis till he oh i dunno plays two good NFL games. Till then i'd be worried about keeping the QB from serious injury.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse


The Eagles were notorious for failing to cover TEs.

That had to come up in the scouting report and they called plays to exploit that.

The ball was going in early to Cooley, and then Davis just stepped in.

Davis definitely needs to put in some consistent games against some other teams to earn my "trust".

BTW - did you see how Davis tried to jump when he was getting tackled again on MNF? Why the heck does he do that? They need to coach him out of that.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Here's my near daily plug for the team to sign Robbie Agnone, the tight end currently on New England's developmental roster (what do those guys know about football players) and who spent the preseason with the Redskins. I think Cooley will hurt the team by trying to make it back this season. There's a good chance that if they keep his roster spot open, he will never recover enough to play this year, and then the team will have wasted a roster spot. The best thing to do is put Cooley on IR and sign Agnone. See, Vinny, as the laziest GM person in the NFL, this option should hold a lot of appeal to you...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Trying to quash fan dissent in the age of the Internet is ridiculous.

It speaks to the idea that Danny has yes men around him. Any organization that discusses ideas would have had someone be the voice of reason and make him realize that trying to stop the dissent will only foster more.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

The reason he can't pay it off in one lump sum now is because that money counts against the cap, and we would go way over the cap in any given year.

If next year is uncapped he is free to make a giant payment on that dead money to clear the books.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

__________________

I know. But my point is that if there's no cap there's not really any reason to worry about cap figures moving forward. If you have under performing players like Jon Jansen, you can cut him when it's obvious he needs to be gone... instead of holding on to him for 2-3 years longer than he's useful to the team. We're probably saying the same thing but in different ways.

Not having a cap though for this team is a bit scary. Snyder would be smart to dump certain contracts and bring in fresh players in their place, but my fear is that he uses it as an excuse to continue with the status quo. Adding more and more flash rather than substance.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Yeah P1. Didn't he do that earlier this year and fumble attempting to "jump" a tackler?

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Off topic a bit but is anyone else amused that the Skins' FO is trying to pick a fight with the Washington Post? Donovan was an idiot on the radio yesterday, but beyond that, it just shows how stupid the organization is. Banning signs at games, trashing the paper that covers the team? You can't win those fights, and it just looks petty, even if you are in the right. Journalists always have the last word...and alienating the fan base? Good call!

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 10:15 AM

Well put, mattylight. I can't imagine that it will be longer before this comes back and bites them in their vaherder. Even Barno's alienated. You can't make money in the long haul by warring against everyone, unless you're Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, or the phone company.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

I am starting to hate Jim Zorn with each time he opens his mouth and sh!t comes out of it. I know fans in Seattle aren't intelligent in a footbal sense. But here on the East Coast where most of us grew up around football and played it knows better.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 10:03 AM

------------

Huh? and what flows from your fingertips?

is Seattle like...

errrrrm...

in Europa or somethin'?

I mean I know it's a few thousand miles from the center of the football universe, Washington DC, but those folks are Americans too?

and you "hate" Jim Zorn?

mmmmmmkay...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Haven’t read any comments since before the game, so sorry if I am repeating what others say.

Awful game. Every time it would start to look interesting someone else would sjk things up. Campbell turning the ball over so many times in the first qtr was ridiculous, although the O-line was pretty terrible. Still all blame to Campbell on the pick 6, the fumble on the sack where he seemed to think that him jogging was faster than the Eagles linebacker chasing him down, and then dropping the snap out of shotgun. Yes, he played very poorly. Then they scored, the d held and it was ARE’s turn to make a boneheaded play; that was the game changer in my opinion…..Carlos Rogers and Horton should be benched for an entire game just to send a message, and then Rabach finally blew it one last time……

Have to say that the players lost this game, not the playcallers…..I actually thought Sherm called a decent game. Didn’t look like he scaled anything back because he was scared that the oline sux….without 5 or 6 of those boneheaded mistakes, they might have been able to actually win. I liked Fred Davis as a receiver, but he is a bad, bad blocker.

Reading all of this junk about the banning of signs and cases of even certain shirts at the stadium tells me that Snyder is perfectly aware of the fan outrage, and cannot claim to be unaware or surprised by anything. That Donovan guy sounds like one of the most pathetic Snyder lap dogs I have ever heard. Larry Michael probably thinks that that guy is a brown noser. What a joke, absolutely unbelievable. I liked Hamilton’s column this morning; pretty much sums up what I am feeling. When is he going to listen to what 99.999% of anyone with football knowledge has been saying, and get a real GM, and let HIM run the team? At least I have Fantasy Football to keep my Sundays fun….and go Wizards! UNDEFEATED!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Thank you Caps and Wiz!

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | October 28, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Woman flashes $27,000 at Mass. bar, gets robbed

The Associated Press
Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:16 PM

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. -- Massachusetts police say they are searching for two men suspected of robbing a woman of $27,000 after she flashed the cash in a Springfield bar. Sgt. John Delaney said on Friday that the 22-year-old woman was robbed Monday night by two men wearing dark clothing and bandanas, one armed with what appeared to be a semiautomatic handgun.

According to police, the woman bragged in the bar of receiving the $27,000 from an insurance claim. Police say she was later robbed after she left the bar with a male friend.

Delaney said the woman should have put her cash settlement in a bank.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

"Kind of like the White House picking a fight with Fox News."


I don't watch the news, so I find this amusing.

There's war, famine, disease, economic dislocation, bad movies, easily accessed porn, and the Obamagang wants to pick a fight with people no one respects.

Obama fighting FOX News is kinda like dunking on a midget: it proves nothing and everything all at the same time.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

I think Cooley will hurt the team by trying to make it back this season.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 10:21 AM

Agree with you if he stays a peroxide blond. But, I think he could contribute as a carrot top.

Seriously, I'm all in favor of grabbing guys off practice squads and giving them tryouts in the NFC East. If they can make it here, they'll make it anywhere! Well, maybe I should change it to "if they make it here, then they can make it here."

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Not having a cap though for this team is a bit scary. Snyder would be smart to dump certain contracts and bring in fresh players in their place, but my fear is that he uses it as an excuse to continue with the status quo. Adding more and more flash rather than substance.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

My point about the cap is more about clearing out the current dead money rather than dealing with underperforming players moving forward.

This team is STILL carrying around dead money from the Lloyd and Archuleta contracts! Not to mention the more current Jansen extension.

Yes, an uncapped year would seem to exacerbate Danny's fantasy football mentality.

But that's why I mentioned decision #1 about needing to fire Vinny and bring in legit football people - people that can exercise more rational/thoughtful control over FAs, draft picks, team-building, etc.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

I mean I know it's a few thousand miles from the center of the football universe, Washington DC, but those folks are Americans too?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:25 AM

Aren't they Canadians? Eh?

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Eh.

and they have health care for all.

and love hockey.

and?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Yeah P1. Didn't he do that earlier this year and fumble attempting to "jump" a tackler?

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Almost. Luckily the call got reversed b/c they said the ground caused the fumble, but you see the danger in it.

When you go airborne you just make yourself vulnerable to
1) get clobbered and fumble the ball
2) land awkwardly on your head and get seriously injured...and fumble the ball

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

and?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:32 AM

And, best of all, Habitant Pea Soup.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

and you "hate" Jim Zorn?

mmmmmmkay...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:25 AM

And don't you hate Dan Snyder and Vinny?

And it is true. People from different regions are cut form different clothes.

So, let me rephrase...I hate Jim Zorn as the Head Coach of The Washington Redskins, not as a person because I don't know the guy. But the act he puts on, he isn't fooling me. But it sounds like he is fooling the Chia Pet....

Sounds better? And I maintain what I said about Seattle.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

With the potential for an uncapped year next year, its ideal for a new GM and coach to come in. You can clear whatever you want (as above posters were arguing the same point) and rebuild quicker than most years. BUT: What happens when the salary cap is reinstituted? That could really screw a team such as the Skins if they wanted to go spend big again. I guess it wouldnt matter, because by spending big, they just screw themselves anyways...

I suppose the league would have to implement a plan to start a new salary cap so that teams could comply with it over a 2 or 3 year span. How did they start the cap back in 93? Just set the cap limit a little above the highest spending team?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 28, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, if ever there was an opportunity to boot players and start anew it's next year with no cap and a gm.

Hopefully this is a fortuitous confluence of events that makes too much sense for Danny to ignore bringing in a GM.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

All this talk about firing Vinny.

Did ya'll see him during his post game interview?

The man is not even from this planet. Vinny Cerrato is zoning out to an extra terrestrial thetan frequency.

I say we just spray him with some "Raid" and he'll slink away easily enough.


Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

I hear ya 4th.

The season is frustrating and depressing and just awful and we all want to direct our anger somewhere, at someone.

(Barack Obama?)

Football is supposed to make us feel better not worse.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

With the potential for an uncapped year next year, its ideal for a new GM and coach to come in. You can clear whatever you want (as above posters were arguing the same point) and rebuild quicker than most years.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 28, 2009 10:37 AM

You know, the conventional wisdom is that Mr. Snyder will spend like a drunken sailor in an uncapped year. After all he does it in a capped year, so why not in an uncapped year.

But it would be interesting for someone from the Post's financial pages to get off their attitudes and investigate Snyder's financial situation. He's had some serious setbacks: the Redskins are generating less revenue, Six Flags went bankrupt, fast food restaurants like Johnny Rockets are not doing well. He's suing fans to raise revenue, he's trying to get Zorn to quit so he won't have to pay his contract which was one of the lowest of any NFL coaches, he wouldn't give Blache a raise when he made him OC.

I'm still in the "drunken sailor" camp on an uncapped year, but if doesn't happen then I get to be brownwood on this issue: "I told you so."

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

I think Cooley will hurt the team by trying to make it back this season.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 10:21 AM

Agree with you if he stays a peroxide blond. But, I think he could contribute as a carrot top.

Seriously, I'm all in favor of grabbing guys off practice squads and giving them tryouts in the NFC East. If they can make it here, they'll make it anywhere! Well, maybe I should change it to "if they make it here, then they can make it here."

Posted by: League-Source

Personally, I think Cooley should go raven black hair, eye brow piercing, black lipstick, etc. - the whole goth look - but I think he should do it on IR, and hopefully out of the public eye. I like the idea of turning Fred Davis loose and seeing what they have, and then, hoepfully, opening up next season with two pass catching tight ends.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Drunken sailors do what?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

"he said he will be frank and that he believed in his playcalling and knows it can be successful"

I just don't understand this arrogance...I really don't...he should be humbled by the past 15 games, and looking to spend EVERY moment with Sherm Lewis in order to become a better play caller...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

So Campbell gets the blame on the tipped pass and NOT Will Montgomery? Campbell gets the blame for the bad snaps and NOT Casey Rabach? Wow, no wonder you guys all hate Campbell.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

With the potential for an uncapped year next year, its ideal for a new GM and coach to come in. You can clear whatever you want (as above posters were arguing the same point) and rebuild quicker than most years. BUT: What happens when the salary cap is reinstituted? That could really screw a team such as the Skins if they wanted to go spend big again. I guess it wouldnt matter, because by spending big, they just screw themselves anyways...

I suppose the league would have to implement a plan to start a new salary cap so that teams could comply with it over a 2 or 3 year span. How did they start the cap back in 93? Just set the cap limit a little above the highest spending team?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 28, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse


Again, moving forward under contracts of the uncapped year is a different issue than the one I was raising - getting out from under the crushing dead money they keep compiling.

Lloyd, Archuleta, Jansen, even Samuels (now). We can get rid of these ghosts in one fell swoop. We can even cut Portis and payout his dead money next year if the owner is so bold to do so.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Turning Fred Davis "loose?"

I dunno...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

On a positive note, the Wizards are sick! Good win on the road last night in Dallas. Skillbert looks like he is back. Not sure what look Mike Miller is going for. I've never been into the NBA this early in the season -- guess it just goes to show how bad the state of affairs are at Redskins Park...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Don't know if this has been posted but it goes to show how deluded the FO really is, plus the shirts are great:

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2009/10/27/dave-donovan-the-washington-redskins-vs-the-washington-post/

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 28, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell has all the tools to be an NFL QB, save two:

A bib and a binkie.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 28, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Let 'em know it's not the media, it's the management:

21300 Redskin Park Drive

Ashburn, VA 20147

United States
Phone:
703-726-7000

Fax:
703-726-7172

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 28, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

***Correction***

Good win for the Wiz last night in F Dallas...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

ml....

Celtics+Sheed=Championship

book it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

So Campbell gets the blame on the tipped pass and NOT Will Montgomery? Campbell gets the blame for the bad snaps and NOT Casey Rabach? Wow, no wonder you guys all hate Campbell.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

______________

Campbell gets the blame for missing opportunities down field, overthrowing open targets, failure to read defenses pre-snap and often running into sacks.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

So Campbell gets the blame on the tipped pass and NOT Will Montgomery? Campbell gets the blame for the bad snaps and NOT Casey Rabach? Wow, no wonder you guys all hate Campbell.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

______________

Campbell gets the blame for missing opportunities down field, overthrowing open targets, failure to read defenses pre-snap and often running into sacks.

Posted by: dfbovey | October 28, 2009 10:55 AM |

PAskinsfan17 gets the blame for being dense.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

ml....

Celtics+Sheed=Championship

book it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

My Dad is a Celtics fan, so I know all about them. Glen Davis is a donkey, huh? Impressive win in Cleveland last night. Didn't they only lose at home twice last season?

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

In this toothache of a football season for Skins fans, one of the most surprising and troubling problems has been the play of LaRon Landry. I know he may not be playing his ideal position, but he misses tackles and takes bad angles(see the Jackson TD on the reverse)...and that doesn't have anything to do with where he was lined up when the play started.
When you are facing a rebuild, you need the assets you do have to hold their value. I thought he was going to emerge as a superstar this season, but I am afraid we are seeing his value diminished with every passing week.

Posted by: MColeman51 | October 28, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Gotta read the Vinny transcript - WOW. What a functionary.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | October 28, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

On a positive note, the Wizards are sick! Good win on the road last night in Dallas. Skillbert looks like he is back. Not sure what look Mike Miller is going for. I've never been into the NBA this early in the season -- guess it just goes to show how bad the state of affairs are at Redskins Park...

Posted by: mattylight | October 28, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Yea could be a good year at the verizon center.

RE: Mike Miller, he is going for the WNBA look.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 28, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

MColeman51--Agree with your post except for the word "surprising." Laron Landry has been a consistent underachiever since he got here. He stays away from off season work and shows no attitude befitting a professional, much less one who was taken a pick before Adrian Peterson. What a waste.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"Campbell gets the blame for missing opportunities down field, overthrowing open targets, failure to read defenses pre-snap and often running into sacks."

He also gets blamed for impotence, nostaligia, poverty, news bias, and America's low saving rate.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

ml, yeah, pretty much. As one of the owners of the celtics said, we're not going to call him 'big baby' anymore, his name is glen.

Garnett has made him cry on the bench for not doing the right thing while on the court, I'm sure KG is gonna rip him up for this even more so...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

and the Obamagang wants to pick a fight with people no one respects.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 28, 2009 10:26 AM


No one except, you know, people who actually watch the news.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 28, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse
So Campbell gets the blame on the tipped pass and NOT Will Montgomery? Campbell gets the blame for the bad snaps and NOT Casey Rabach? Wow, no wonder you guys all hate Campbell.
Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 10:49 AM

Yes, Campbell threw a bad ball that was tipped at the line. Montgomery caught it, so kudos to him but it was campbell’s fault. Rabach is to blame for the 4th and goal bad snap, but campbell’s other two fumbles were HIS OWN fault. I have been a staunch JC17 supporter for a long time, and still think he could be decent, but he made a few bonehead plays that directly contributed to the loss…..my support for him is diminishing quite rapidly at this point.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

One of the problems with keeping Zorn (and hopefully Vinny) around is that they're trying to save their jobs. They can only do that by showing dramatic improvements in the last 9 weeks of the season. That means they want all the proven players they can get (Levi Jones) rather than trying to develop young players for the future. These quick fixes are not in the long-term interest of the Redskins. Of course, Dan Sndyer's view of the long term has been three weeks.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Campbell gets the blame for missing opportunities down field, overthrowing open targets, failure to read defenses pre-snap and often running into sacks.

Posted by: dfbovey

Not to mention fumbling, not stepping into his passes because he is afraid of getting hit, throwing into double coverage, not stepping into the pocket, throwing the ball over the line of scrimmage, not taking charge of the huddle, making excuses, etc... but, hey, if you want to blame him for the poor offensive line play, we can probably also mention that he can audible to a different protection scheme if he sees the defense coming after him...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan17 gets the blame for being dense.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

I'm dense? You're the one that can't read. The previous poster clearly blamed Campbell for the bad snaps and the tipped ball. Those are definitely all on the oline. Campbell gets the blame for the fumble, missing open receivers, and not throwing the ball away before getting sacked. His inability to adjust to the defense is directly related to him not being allowed to call audibles. You guys just blame Campbell for everything and look the other way when Todd Collins does the same crap. You all live in fantasy land where you think getting our 18th QB in 17 years is going to suddenly make us a contender. It's sad really. Every 2 years we can the coach and chase the QB out of town. None of you are smart enought to realize that all they're doing is taking the heat of the front office where it belongs. We need an offensive line. Stop being dense. You're just enabling Snyderrato and allowing them to set the next QB up to fail. Only Redskins fans would expect an offense to completely change schemes in under 2 years. We deserve to be mediocre. We don't have any vision so why would our owner.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

In this toothache of a football season for Skins fans, one of the most surprising and troubling problems has been the play of LaRon Landry. I know he may not be playing his ideal position, but he misses tackles and takes bad angles(see the Jackson TD on the reverse)...and that doesn't have anything to do with where he was lined up when the play started.
When you are facing a rebuild, you need the assets you do have to hold their value. I thought he was going to emerge as a superstar this season, but I am afraid we are seeing his value diminished with every passing week.

Posted by: MColeman51 | October 28, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse


Between Laron landry and Carlos Rogers we have 2 top-10 draft picks that are not panning out in accordance with their draft status/potential.

Kind of disappointing.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

One of the problems with keeping Zorn (and hopefully Vinny) around is that they're trying to save their jobs. They can only do that by showing dramatic improvements in the last 9 weeks of the season. That means they want all the proven players they can get (Levi Jones) rather than trying to develop young players for the future. These quick fixes are not in the long-term interest of the Redskins. Of course, Dan Sndyer's view of the long term has been three weeks.
Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:15 AM |

Have they said that Levi will play left tackle? Hope so, that way they can move Heyer back to right tackle, or the bench. Big Mike seemed to do okay; not sure who I would start at RT….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

what's new.......:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/28/redskins-dealing-clumsily-with-rampant-unrest/


Redskins dealing clumsily with rampant unrest
Posted by Mike Florio on October 28, 2009 9:19 AM ET
Everyone who follows the NFL knows that the Redskins are struggling (and Joe Namath couldn't care less). After seven games, they've won only two -- one by two points at home against the 0-7 Rams and one by three at home against the 0-7 Bucs.

But with coach Jim Zorn supposedly sticking around for the rest of the year and a crippling schedule awaiting after the bye (Falcons, Broncos, Cowboys, Eagles, Saints, Raiders, Giants, Cowboys, Chargers), there's not much more that can be said about the team.

There's plenty that can be said about the manner in which the team is -- or isn't -- dealing with the criticism that goes with the territory of being terrible.

For starters, the team has implemented a new "no signs" policy, which makes sense since the signs will be increasingly unflattering as the losses pile up.

Now, WUSA-TV (via Dan Steinberg's D.C. Sports Bog) says that the team is prohibiting television interviews of tailgaters.

Said anchor Derek McGinty on Tuesday, "Tonight the Redskins have seemingly escalated things again; they've banned media interviews with tailgating fans on FedEx Field property. They told our sports director Brett Haber that this has always been team policy, but when he pointed out that we and other stations, including their very own broadcast partners, have in fact always talked openly to tailgaters, there was, well let's just say, no further explanation."

The situation got even more tense when Redskins General Counsel Dave Donovan spoke with Mike Wise of the Washington Post on Wise's radio show at 106.7 The Fan in D.C. (SportsRadioInterviews.com has the link to the audio.)

The far better approach, in our view, would be to let the fans vent during the bad times. Heavy-handed tactics will serve only to increase the sense of frustration -- and will ultimately alienate hundreds if not thousands of paying customers.

UPDATE: Redskins blogger Matt Terl has put together a partial transcript of the Wise-Donovan debate. Donovan separately told Terl that fans are permitted to wear T-shirts critical of the team, as long as the shirts contain no profanity. Then again, in the eyes of many Redskins fans, the words "Snyder" and "Cerrato" currently are regarded as profane.

Posted by: cancunlizzard | October 28, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Yes, Campbell threw a bad ball that was tipped at the line. Montgomery caught it, so kudos to him but it was campbell’s fault. Rabach is to blame for the 4th and goal bad snap, but campbell’s other two fumbles were HIS OWN fault. I have been a staunch JC17 supporter for a long time, and still think he could be decent, but he made a few bonehead plays that directly contributed to the loss…..my support for him is diminishing quite rapidly at this point.


Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Campbell is 6'5'' if his pass is batted at the LOS that's on the offensive line.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

We deserve to be mediocre. We don't have any vision so why would our owner.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:17 AM

You deserve to be mediocre if you're defending Campbell. The guy's been here five years and he still doesn't get it. Neither do you. One of the most visionary things the owner tried to do was trade Campbell in the offseason.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Campbell gets the blame for missing opportunities down field, overthrowing open targets, failure to read defenses pre-snap and often running into sacks.

Posted by: dfbovey


Campbell gets the blame for being the leader, focal point, and most important player on an offense that can't score more than 17 points and has had about 2 offensive first-half TDs this season.

Campbell is brilliant late in the games when we are already down by 20 points and the defenses are playing a half-arsed soft prevent. Then he goes on a great stat-padding TD drive that boosts his passer rating.

But if you need a guy to QB your team when the game is actually competitive, the he doesn't quite look like the one.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

p1, MUCH, MUCH too kind.

Lets face it, Rogers, can easily be considered a bust. He's, put together, maybe a season's worth of good play over his career, however STILL to this day cannot hold onto a ball that hits him in the hands.

Landry, I'm not sure what happened with this guy. I recall the playoff game in Seattle, where he really seemed to come out of his shell, and I thought that he'd just BLOW UP..however its been average at best play ever since...

To think that before the season started,one of the coach's said he was a better player than Polumalu....maybe the talent is there, but it has yet to be put on display...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone here Vinnys interview with reporters? It was on Zabans radio show last night. Jason Reid flat out asked Lil Vin if he thought he provided Zorn with a roster capable of making the playoffs. Vin answered "YES" lickidy split. Then the reporters came at him again and again with "what about the depth on the OL? or lackthereof?" His answer was something to the effect of "you cant have a pro bowler backing up a pro bowler" RIDICULOUS! They started asking him if he feared for his job. Man, GO JASON REID! DRILL HIM!!! He fired off about JReid in his rant before the Philly game and thought he could win that battle. He gets stupider by the minute.

FIRE HIM!!!

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 28, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

JC17 showed who he is on the pump and go to Santana and then throwing behind ARE. JC17 has 0 football instinct.

And F JZorn! He's a bum.

Posted by: Curzon417 | October 28, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Campbell is 6'5'' if his pass is batted at the LOS that's on the offensive line.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse


Jaws broke down that play on the broadcast and put the blame squarely on Will M.

It was a 3-step drop, that means your pass-blocking is geared toward driving the Dlinemen forward to create space/passing lanes for the QB.

Will mont picked up the blitzing linebacker, but basically let himself get pushed back instead of driving the LB back.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

So Campbell gets the blame on the tipped pass and NOT Will Montgomery?


Yep, even the commentators called that. It was a 3 step drop and he was supposed to get rid of it, instead he took the 3 steps and hesitated, then was late in getting the ball off. That was all on him.

When you take a 3 step drop and the safety tips the ball(on a blitz), you were late. But since you know more than a Super Bowl Coach and Former NFL QB, I shouldnt believe what they are saying, but instead believe you. OK.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 28, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Landry, I'm not sure what happened with this guy. I recall the playoff game in Seattle, where he really seemed to come out of his shell, and I thought that he'd just BLOW UP..however its been average at best play ever since...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 11:22 AM

He spends most of his offseason away from the team. Yes, he comes back in great shape, but is he learning the essential nuances of his position? He's relying too much in his natural abilities. Taylor had those same issues, but then he went to the pro bowl and learned what other great players at his position did to be consistently good. Unfortunately LL may not get a trip to the pro bowl anytime soon.

Posted by: TWISI | October 28, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Wow, Rogers has let up, what, 3 TDs on the year, and now he's a bust?

Earlier, I saw someone post that Rogers was the worst starting corner in the league.

Some people just have no ability to judge what good play is relative to their league counterparts.

But I guess this is the natural reaction to the overall sucking that's been going on at Redskins Park.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone here Vinnys interview with reporters? It was on Zabans radio show last night. Jason Reid flat out asked Lil Vin if he thought he provided Zorn with a roster capable of making the playoffs. Vin answered "YES" lickidy split. Then the reporters came at him again and again with "what about the depth on the OL? or lackthereof?" His answer was something to the effect of "you cant have a pro bowler backing up a pro bowler" RIDICULOUS! They started asking him if he feared for his job. Man, GO JASON REID! DRILL HIM!!! He fired off about JReid in his rant before the Philly game and thought he could win that battle. He gets stupider by the minute.

FIRE HIM!!!

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | October 28, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

True, Vinnie, if a pro-bowler goes down, then the back-up is almost never going to match up to what he is replacing... But by Vinnie's logic, you might as well have Chris Samuel's backup being three cubic feet of air, because all step downs in talent are equal... It's the GM's job to make sure that if a pro-bowler goes down, then the back up is just a small step down in quality... not a cliff.

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | October 28, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

pro-bowl, cat should be getting a trip straight to the bench for his lack of any type of play......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

p1, MUCH, MUCH too kind.

Lets face it, Rogers, can easily be considered a bust. He's, put together, maybe a season's worth of good play over his career, however STILL to this day cannot hold onto a ball that hits him in the hands.

Landry, I'm not sure what happened with this guy. I recall the playoff game in Seattle, where he really seemed to come out of his shell, and I thought that he'd just BLOW UP..however its been average at best play ever since...

To think that before the season started,one of the coach's said he was a better player than Polumalu....maybe the talent is there, but it has yet to be put on display...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse


Yes, Rogers is a bust.

I've just said it so many times up here that you get tired of using the same vitriole (which I now reserve exclusively for the FO).

I've said it again and again, and some schmuck will talk about how he's a good tackler, or some other schmuck will want to change the subject and (for some reason) talk about how DHall is a liability in coverage (even though he's not given up a big passing play or a passing TD all season).

Landry just looks like a run-of-the-mill safety. Sometimes he's there to make an average play, sometimes he's watching the backside of a WR/RB as they scoot into the endzone. Sometime's he's flying by someone missing a tackle. He's just a non-factor.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

You deserve to be mediocre if you're defending Campbell. The guy's been here five years and he still doesn't get it. Neither do you. One of the most visionary things the owner tried to do was trade Campbell in the offseason.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

O yeah because Jay Cutler is doing so well. We could be 3-3 and have no first round draft picks for the next two years. Why didn't I see that genius plan for the future. You are totally right man. I'm blind to see what having Cutler and no first round draft picks could do for this organization. Do you have a visionary newsletter I can subscribe to?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Jaws broke down that play on the broadcast and put the blame squarely on Will M.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

We must have watched different broadcasts, because I remember him calling out Campbell for hesitating, he did call out Will M. for getting pushed back, but he also brought up that it was a safety blitz in a 3 step drop and the ball should have been released much earlier.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 28, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Yep, even the commentators called that. It was a 3 step drop and he was supposed to get rid of it, instead he took the 3 steps and hesitated, then was late in getting the ball off. That was all on him

gatorskinz2000

I heard Gruden say specifically that Montgomery was too soft in his pass pro on that play. Montgomery needed to set harder in that situation so that the QB could have a lane to throw through. Irregardless, JC had a poor game in my mind because when it was competitive in the first half, JC missed several big play opportunities.

Posted by: TWISI | October 28, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

psp, so what exactly should be the parameters of good cb play?

Is it interceptions? Cuz rogers has none

Is it shutting down Dwayne Bowe? Cuz rogers got tore up

Is it shutting down Desean Jackson?? Lather rinse repeat?

How should we judge Rogers in your estimation??


Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I'm dense? You're the one that can't read. The previous poster clearly blamed Campbell for the bad snaps and the tipped ball. Those are definitely all on the oline. Campbell gets the blame for the fumble, missing open receivers, and not throwing the ball away before getting sacked. His inability to adjust to the defense is directly related to him not being allowed to call audibles.
Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:17 AM

Okay, PA, you need to re-read my 10:25 post. I don’t blame him for the bad snap, I clearly say “and then Rabach finally blew it one last time” for the bad snap on 4th and goal. Rabach sent him a good snap the first time he dropped the ball in shotgun……The other fumble was indeed Campbell’s fault. Even Jaworski said so; he needs to feel the pressure, plus he was freaking jogging like there wasn’t anyone chasing him. As far as the pick 6 goes, when you are a 6 foot 5 inch QB (or 6ft 4, whatever), you need to be able to throw it over the dlineman, especially when you are that deep in your own territory. I respect what Jaws says about Mont. Getting pushed back, but ultimately when you are a tall QB like he is, you should be able to get rid of it over the top…….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Wow, Rogers has let up, what, 3 TDs on the year, and now he's a bust?

Earlier, I saw someone post that Rogers was the worst starting corner in the league.

Some people just have no ability to judge what good play is relative to their league counterparts.

But I guess this is the natural reaction to the overall sucking that's been going on at Redskins Park.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse


Rogers is a bust b/c he gets habitually burned by WRs and habitually bites on pump-fakes. He gives up TDs. And he can't turn INTs or big plays.

When your #9 overall pick is a liability in coverage and largely incapable of turning big plays that seem routine, what do you call him?

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

So Campbell gets the blame on the tipped pass and NOT Will Montgomery?


Yep, even the commentators called that. It was a 3 step drop and he was supposed to get rid of it, instead he took the 3 steps and hesitated, then was late in getting the ball off. That was all on him.

When you take a 3 step drop and the safety tips the ball(on a blitz), you were late. But since you know more than a Super Bowl Coach and Former NFL QB, I shouldnt believe what they are saying, but instead believe you. OK.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 28, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Really? They put the blame on Will Montgomery and not Campbell. They said that if he had made an effort to block the safety then the ball would not have been tipped.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Safety Quintin Mikell helped with both turnovers, blitzing to tip the pass that Witherspoon picked off, and recovering the fumble after Campbell was stripped.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091027/sports/fbn_eagles_redskins


For the ball to be tipped on a three step drop by a safety, meant he held the ball too long. Jaws brought this up, I wanted to make sure I remembered correctly it was a safety who blitzed

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 28, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I heard Gruden say specifically that Montgomery was too soft in his pass pro on that play. Montgomery needed to set harder in that situation so that the QB could have a lane to throw through. Irregardless, JC had a poor game in my mind because when it was competitive in the first half, JC missed several big play opportunities.

Posted by: TWISI | October 28, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse


Maybe it was Gruden's comment I was recalling.

But yes, it's true that JC seemed to hesitate on the throw as well - which I imagine is a no-no on a 3-step timing route.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Landry, I'm not sure what happened with this guy. I recall the playoff game in Seattle, where he really seemed to come out of his shell, and I thought that he'd just BLOW UP..however its been average at best play ever since...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 11:22 AM

Just a theory...but do you think getting dumptrucked by Brandon Jacobs on opening night last season was the beginning of the trouble? He played the Giant game this season with Jacobs squarely between his ears...trying to live that play down. Kind of hard to forget it when it's on every highlight reel the NFL or the networks run. The first few weeks of the season his play seemed erratic...out of control. (this in a defense predicated on discipline) The last few weeks, he's just sort of disappeared...between misses and bad angles.

Posted by: MColeman51 | October 28, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Okay, PA, you need to re-read my 10:25 post. I don’t blame him for the bad snap, I clearly say “and then Rabach finally blew it one last time” for the bad snap on 4th and goal. Rabach sent him a good snap the first time he dropped the ball in shotgun……The other fumble was indeed Campbell’s fault. Even Jaworski said so; he needs to feel the pressure, plus he was freaking jogging like there wasn’t anyone chasing him. As far as the pick 6 goes, when you are a 6 foot 5 inch QB (or 6ft 4, whatever), you need to be able to throw it over the dlineman, especially when you are that deep in your own territory. I respect what Jaws says about Mont. Getting pushed back, but ultimately when you are a tall QB like he is, you should be able to get rid of it over the top…….


Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 28, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

It wasn't just that Montgomery got pushed back it was that montgomery stopped pushing. The pass was going to Moss and it had to be in front of Moss because there were two defenders behind him. Throwing it way up high was not an option. Had Will Montgomery kept pushing then Quintin Mikell would not have been able to jump up and tip the ball. I do agree about Campbell's other fumble, that was all on him. He needs to protect the ball better.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

"Jackson got his second score when he put a double move on Carlos Rogers and got wide open down the left side, turning a third-and-22 at the Philadelphia 43 into six points in the final two minutes of the first half"

psp, Rogers STILL has no idea how to cover the dreaded double move...but he's a good corner how again??

If I'm an opposing team, I run double move routes on this guy until the cows come home...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 28, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I approach the gate to Fed-Ex and a security guard asks "Vare are your papers? Are you carrying any contraband? Vee understand you haf relatifs in Germantown ya?"

Posted by: chopin224 | October 28, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

"There's war, famine, disease, economic dislocation, bad movies, easily accessed porn, and the Obamagang wants to pick a fight with people no one respects."

Down here, FOX News is treated as the word of God.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

We must have watched different broadcasts, because I remember him calling out Campbell for hesitating, he did call out Will M. for getting pushed back, but he also brought up that it was a safety blitz in a 3 step drop and the ball should have been released much earlier.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 28, 2009 11:33 AM |

Campbell must be so despirited and depressed by now that he can hardly put one foot in front of the other. He can see the desolation ahead of him when the Skins have to play almost exclusively playoff bound teams in their remaining 9 games. By the end of the season he will be Patrick Ramseyed. He will be dogmeat. Unfit for anything other than a backup role on a loser team like the Rams or the Lions.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | October 28, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Do you have a visionary newsletter I can subscribe to?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:33 AM

No. You just have to pay more attention to my posts up here. You're pretty dense, but you might get it eventually. Try reading them aloud.

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Down here, FOX News is treated as the word of God.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 28, 2009 11:44 AM |

Texas should secede from the Union as they have been promising to do. It will be good riddance to bad garbage. Kennedy killers.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | October 28, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Quintin Mikell, all 5-10 (206 Lbs) of him tipping a 6-4 QB's pass at the line.

What is wrong with this sentence?

1) Will M. Must be a pusss to allow someone that size to over power him

2) Quintin either has ridiculous leaping skills, or Campbell had a low throw

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 28, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Landry is always running back to cente field before the snap happens. He needs to be up playing the run, blitzing. He takes terrible angles when persuing. He is not being used correctly.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 28, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: League-Source | October 28, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Wow, Rogers has let up, what, 3 TDs on the year, and now he's a bust?

Earlier, I saw someone post that Rogers was the worst starting corner in the league.

Some people just have no ability to judge what good play is relative to their league counterparts.

But I guess this is the natural reaction to the overall sucking that's been going on at Redskins Park.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 11:32 AM

3 TDs are 2 more than DHall has let up....

How can you bite on a double move thats 3/4 yards short of the 1st down line on 3rd and 22?

That sounds like something you would expect Tryon to do, not one of the supposed top 5 CBs coming into the season....

And Tryon is performing well, BTW, as a 3rd/Slot CB....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 28, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Maybe it was Gruden's comment I was recalling.

But yes, it's true that JC seemed to hesitate on the throw as well - which I imagine is a no-no on a 3-step timing route.

Posted by: p1funk | October 28, 2009 11:39 AM

I just re-watched that play. Guess what, everyone is right. They was a clear miscommunication between Rabbach and Montgomery on how to give help if the safety blitz. Rabbach had helpfrom Dock w/ the NT on a combo. Montgomery blocked out on the DE, Leaving BMW to block the potential blitzing CB. But when the safety blitzed, he was lined up over Montgomery,Rabbach reacted to him, but Montgomery never did. In fact BMW re-engaged the DE once the CB dropped back in coverage, and Montgomery ended up blocking no one. JC did not release the ball as quickly as he should because as I understand it, on the third step the ball needs to be out. JC held the ball for another second.

Posted by: TWISI | October 28, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

1) Will M. Must be a pusss to allow someone that size to over power him

2) Quintin either has ridiculous leaping skills, or Campbell had a low throw


Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 28, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

If Campbell would have thrown it high it would have been picked off. Moss was in front of the defenders. Will didn't get overpowered as you suggested, he simply stopped pushing. And yes Quintin Mikell does have incredible leaping ability. It was Will's fault for not pushing.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 28, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

"Campbell gets the blame for missing opportunities down field, overthrowing open targets, failure to read defenses pre-snap and often running into sacks."


He also gets blamed for impotence, nostaligia, poverty, news bias, and America's low saving rate.

Posted by: MistaMoe

Agreed Moe. Lets also add world hunger to that list.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Greg, I know this may be a shocker for you, but yes, cornerbacks get beat. Even the best ones.

And I know it's another shocker, but there is a gap between first team all-pro and bust. It's not one or the other.

With the exception of one season (2006), Rogers has been a starting corner on a top 10 passing defense every year, and a top 10 defense overall every year. There's a reason for that.

Jesus, the Snyder kneejerk reaction has permeated completely through the fanbase. Rogers is fine, and is far from a problem with this team as it currently stands. Sometimes I wonder how people delude themselves into thinking anything worse than legendary production constitutes a bust. I mean, with Rogers being the worst starting corner in the league, Landry being a complete bust, and Horton struggling with a sophomore slump, it's incredible that the Redskins are 3rd in the league in pass defense, averaging only 164.9 yards a game through the air, good for 3rd in the league. What a bunch of scrubs those guys are.

Posted by: psps23 | October 28, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

Agree with the hindsight comment. However you have Cooley. So his options were to either remove Cooley for Davis who was a liability blocking with limited knowledge of the playbook or abandon the WCO at times and run out of a two TE formation.

I put this on Danny and Vinny. They decide to take a team built on power running JG vertical offense and u-turn to WCO. In your first draft you take two WR's, ok fine. But then in typical Danny fashion he had a, "Oh shiny object lets get it!" moment and drafts another pass catching TE?

I can't blame Zorn for that anymore than i'd blame Blache if we drafted a nose tackle then he sat the bench in the 4-3.

Z-man has plenty to do with this teams ills but Davis' lack of playing time aint on him.

Posted by: Gweez | October 28, 2009 9:41 AM


Yes, it is on him. A good coach makes use of the talent available to him. Period. You know why? The reason is that effectively utilizing the talent on a team gives you the best chance to win.

Tweak the scheme to fit the talent, that's how you win games. All good coaches do this.

Force the players to play a scheme they are not suited for, that's how you lose football games and look incompetent (a la Jim Zorn).

Posted by: ecale25 | October 28, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

You deserve to be mediocre if you're defending Campbell. The guy's been here five years and he still doesn't get it. Neither do you. One of the most visionary things the owner tried to do was trade Campbell in the offseason.

Posted by: League-Source

So who would you like to see League? Heath Shuler, Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerful, and the list goes on. Build around him first and see what he does before you say he's useless.

I'm looking forward to Zorn and Vinny being gone and I hope they takes their West Coast offense with them.

Posted by: dcwun | October 28, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"not taking charge of the huddle, making excuses, etc... but, hey, if you want to blame him for the poor offensive line play, we can probably also mention that he can audible to a different protection scheme if he sees the defense coming after him...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 28, 2009 11:16 AM"

Well, I'd probably phrase it, "he's ALLOWED TO audible to a different protection scheme if he sees the defense coming after him" as Campbell doesn't seem willing or able to.

Which is odd, because you'd think he would know it is in his best interest to if he DOESN'T want to get hit.

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 28, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

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