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Redskins try to regroup after Monday nightmare

By Jason Reid

Redskins players return to work today after their stunningly inept performance during Monday night's 59-28 blowout loss to the Philadelphia Eagles at FedEx Field.

The Redskins (4-5) are third in the NFC East, two games behind the Eagles (6-3) and New York Giants (6-3), who are tied for the division lead. The Redskins still could earn a playoff berth, but their thoughts currently are not focused on the NFL's postseason.

Beginning with Wednesday's practice, the Redskins simply will try to regroup on the field and attempt to restore their confidence.

"You find out a lot about yourself after something like that, man," cornerback and defensive co-captain DeAngelo Hall said. "It was like a video game out there, and we got a lot of work to do.

"It's not about talk right now. We've got to go back out there and show we're still capable of being the team we think we are. It's just that simple."

During the 2007 season, the New England Patriots routed the Redskins, 52-7, at Foxborough, Mass. The Redskins were 5-7 at one point and were grieving the loss of safety Sean Taylor, but they won their last four games and reached the playoffs for only the third time during Daniel M. Snyder's tenure as owner.

"We showed a lot of people what we were about then," said inside linebacker and defensive co-captain London Fletcher, who joined the team before the 2007 season. "Obviously, we had a lot going on.

"It was a tough season for a lot of reasons, but guys responded. That's what we need to do now. Just forget about this, get back to the things we need to do and just go out and play good football again. We have to do it. We have no choice."

By Jason Reid  | November 17, 2010; 10:16 AM ET
Categories:  DeAngelo Hall, London Fletcher  
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Comments

Alright...start digging.

Posted by: edvar | November 17, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Of course some of Redskins current weaknesses flow directly from decisions Shanahan has made; trading for McNabb, switching to 3-4 etc.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 10:23 AM


This is where we disagree...I'm not ready to call McNabb a "weakness" or call that trade a failure. After 9 games, nobody should be.

And we have no idea if the 3-4 switch is a total failure...if you wanna hide behind the false bravado of a defense that ranks high in yardage yet gives up points in droves in the 4th quarter and takes the ball away about as often as you see Haley's Comet, then be my guest. Seems to me, we were doing a decent job of keeping people out of the end zone (at least before Monday night) and MUCH improved at taking the ball away. Both of which were the point of making the switch.

While I agree that getting routed off a bye is troubling, it's not the end of the world. It looks bad now, but so did the Redskins' outlook on the heels on that 52-7 loss to NE a couple years ago. Truth of the matter is we have NO idea what Redskins team is gonna show up from week to week. I'm just not ready to declare this thing a Zorn-esque debacle until I see it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Redskins try to regroup after Monday nightmare

By Jason Reid | November 17, 2010; 10:16 AM ET

Oh thank god...I was hoping that was just a nightmare! Damn rum.

Posted by: PlayAction | November 17, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Job 1!: Both offensive and defensive lines!

Posted by: iubiquity | November 17, 2010 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Long term rebuilding and short term rebuilding have one very key component in common: neither happens overnight.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 10:23 AM

I with you BW26. I didn't enjoy watching Monday's performance, but overall the team is playing about as well as one would have reasonably expected. We all hope for instant success, but n reality a rebuild is going to be filled with a bunch of ups and downs.

I look at the contributions from some of the young talent on this team and remain filled with anticipation of sustained success in the near future for this team.

Posted by: TWISI | November 17, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know where i can find the "On the field" Type authentic Skins jerseys? Not the actual game worn ones, but the ones that look like it. I saw a bunch of people at Fed Ex wearing them, but I can't find them anywhere. I am talking bout the type of jersey's that have the tight/fitted kind of sleeves.

Posted by: roccoskins | November 17, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

We are going to end up 10-6 and in the playoffs.

Both of our last playoff years had blowout losses.

Anyone remember the 35-0 smashing the Giants gave us in 2005.

We rebound by beating the mess out of Tennessee this weekend.

I Hope*

Posted by: iH8dallas | November 17, 2010 10:47 AM | Report abuse

There are so many holes on this team that I almost don't care about McNabb and whether he stays. (If he's traded we won't get much for him). But yes, if we are calling the McNabb question today, then I am prepared to vote that surrendering a 2nd and 4th round pick for this guy was indeed a front office failure.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

9 games isn't enough to judge... 1 loss is just 1 loss.

No one will argue those points, but this team appears to be REGRESSING. A loss to Detroit immediately followed by a historic blowout to a division rival... a rival we had 2 weeks to prepare for. Minor setback? Maybe.

Maybe more. We saw the same pattern with Zorn. A fast start and a lame finish. Pepper has argued that Shanahan's MOST RECENT HISTORY does not include team's that finish strong.

Concern is in order... not panic, but legitimate concern. If you're not somewhat concerned by the confluence of history and current events, then we may as well have given Zorn another couple of years to see what he could do without Vinny breathing down his back.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

We don't have 3-4 personnel YET, but I think it was the right move. I doubt blache's defense would have changed any of our losses (even Houston, we had plenty of 4th quarter collapses under old regime), and I don't think we'd have won the Chicago or green bay games without turnovers that didn't happen in our 4-3.

Posted by: AdamCr | November 17, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Anyone notice Shanie missed his mandatory presser yesterday afternoon. Things aren't what tey appear to be in Redskin's land. Someone put out the info on Mcnab's contract Monday to include the misinformation on the guaranteed part. Looks like Shanie and Son were not consulted.

Any bets on Shane lasting the season. Haslett taking over and maybe being HC next year.

Man is this team dysfunctional

Posted by: sheepherder | November 17, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

We are going to end up 10-6 and in the playoffs.

Posted by: iH8dallas | November 17, 2010 10:47 AM


Wow...things must be REALLY bad if ih8 is coming off his 11-5 prediction...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, all sales are final, try again next year!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 17, 2010 10:13 AM

Surely transfers to the Pessimism Pinto are free for the remainder of the year.

I'm not making a prediction this week...I don't think.

Posted by: PlayAction | November 17, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

The Pessimism Pinto is up and running, but don't expect it to be on time, and the interier smells worse than Personal_Fowl's body odor. Koolaid will no longer be served on board, we are now switching to Hater-Aid, a favorite choice of pabrainiac2003!

Come on, we gotta have a prediction. Just ask your broken machine, it's usually wrong anyway.

Posted by: monk811 | November 17, 2010 10:49 AM
------------------------------------------
He's going to be real upset if he doesn't predict and the final score is 24-20.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 17, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Anyone notice Shanie missed his mandatory presser yesterday afternoon.

Posted by: sheepherder | November 17, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Short week explains the no presser. Classic troll post why did I bother?

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know when's the next Haley's comet? A buddy of mine said it was awesome and I don't want to miss the next one.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 17, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

twisi

We all hope for instant success, but n reality a rebuild is going to be filled with a bunch of ups and downs.

Imma lil confused.

When did 'rebuild' get mixed up with 'win now'?

The man from Denver--the man with all the power--has chosen the 'win now' path, not the slow going 'rebuild' one.

Rebuilding doesn't mean you toss drafts picks after injured players and past their prime quarterbacks.

Rebuilding mean you flip your big defensive lineman for draft picks before you hand him a $21 million check.

Rebuilding means you don't cut a young 6'2" wide out with 4.3 speed to hang on to ancient 'professional receivers'.

Finally, when you rebuild, you get younger and faster--and the redskins are about as old a team as it was the end of last year.

We are not rebuilding.

The man from Denver wants to 'win now'.

Only thing is, we ain't.

And that's why I'm confused.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 17, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

We want Dallas!
We want Dallas!


...well... we really do, don't we?

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 17, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

No the NFL requires he hold a mandatory presser and he missed yesterday's little girl. Maybe Donovan can pay the fine for him.

Posted by: sheepherder | November 17, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Redskins try to regroup after Monday nightmare
_____________________________

how about Haslett teaching the players how to tackle first

and maybe the receivers learning how to catch a football

and the Oline learning how to block the opponent in front of them

and Fat Albert learning that he needs to sack the QB not the kiss the turf and lay motionless

and The Shannanigans to stop treating the organization as their practice team for little spoiled brat Kyle's future rise to head coach someday

nothing really surprising about the result on Monday night except the fact that the Eagles were playing the pee wee team version of the NFL which is the little Washington Redskins

5-11 folks that's if they're lucky. that's for neglecting draft picks for the last decade Danny boy! YOU RUINED A TEAM AND WHAT THEY MEAN TO OUR COMMUNITY! THIS PLAYERS ASSEMBLED NOW ARE JUST MADE UP OF OLD RUSTY PARTS THAT HAS RELATIVELY NO LONG TERM VALUE! GREAT JOB DANNY BOY!

Posted by: alucard1 | November 17, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Of course some of Redskins current weaknesses flow directly from decisions Shanahan has made; trading for McNabb, switching to 3-4 etc.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 10:23 AM
_______

Personally, I think McNabb's ability to hit the longball and his scrambling ability have been the only thing keeping us in some of these games. Even despite his low QB rating and completion percentage, I think he's been more of an asset than a liability. It's our incredibly horrible OLine and mediocre WR corp that are the real problems. What on earth is Litchenwhatever doing starting over Dockery? I realize that Dock is more of a road grader an not a zone blocker, but come on Shanny, cut bait and admit defeat and put back in the guy that's not going to get destroyed on every single play. Same with Rabach - we love him, smart guy, but he's getting consistently blown backwards almost every series. And Heyer...we all could go on and on. WRs: we have a good TE, one decent older but still NFL-quality WR and a decent up and comer. There's absolutely no one there that will scare any D coordinator. No, we have much bigger problems than McNabb.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | November 17, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Concern is in order... not panic, but legitimate concern. If you're not somewhat concerned by the confluence of history and current events, then we may as well have given Zorn another couple of years to see what he could do without Vinny breathing down his back.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 10:49 AM


While I 100% agree with the first sentence, history isn't a guide on this situation. What happened with Shanahan in Denver has no bearing on what happens in Washington. Just the success of Joe Gibbs 1.0 had nothing to do with what he did in Gibbs 2.0. And how Parcells's good times with the Jets and Giants didn't mean a damn thing in his Dallas tenure.

Zorn looked and acted like he was in over his head. Shanahan has no such look...even though he's made a handful of mistakes in a short period of time.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

gimmesummoe it's a rebuild IMO. Half of this 2010 team wasn't here last year. By the time 2011 season begins this current roster will have about another 50% turnover as more players suited for the schemes employed are acquired. Yes some older players were signed, but I think as much to add leadership this team has been lacking since JG2 and to mentor younger players.

Posted by: TWISI | November 17, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

He's going to be real upset if he doesn't predict and the final score is 24-20.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 17, 2010 10:54 AM

Sh!t...you're right...that would suck!

Blanket prediction for the rest of the season...

Redskins 24, Whoever They Are Playing 20

And monk...give me a double of that kook-aid before its all gone...not drinking the hater-aid just yet!

Posted by: PlayAction | November 17, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

We don't have 3-4 personnel YET, but I think it was the right move. I doubt blache's defense would have changed any of our losses (even Houston, we had plenty of 4th quarter collapses under old regime), and I don't think we'd have won the Chicago or green bay games without turnovers that didn't happen in our 4-3.

Posted by: AdamCr | November 17, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I'm not against installing the 3-4 in connection with rebuilding but it is a current weakness that mismatches current personnel and probably has cost us a game or two (houston, detroit, maybe rams).

You make a good point about the turnovers in the Chicago game for sure but other teams really seem to be teeing off on Haslett's scheme.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

9 games isn't enough to judge... 1 loss is just 1 loss.

No one will argue those points, but this team appears to be REGRESSING. A loss to Detroit immediately followed by a historic blowout to a division rival... a rival we had 2 weeks to prepare for. Minor setback? Maybe.

Maybe more. We saw the same pattern with Zorn. A fast start and a lame finish. Pepper has argued that Shanahan's MOST RECENT HISTORY does not include team's that finish strong.

Concern is in order... not panic, but legitimate concern. If you're not somewhat concerned by the confluence of history and current events, then we may as well have given Zorn another couple of years to see what he could do without Vinny breathing down his back.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 10:49 AM
------------------------------------------
Two games don't make a trend. The two losses are definitely something to be concerned about - especially how flat the team came out against Philly - but it is not yet time to load the women and children in the life boats.

If Haslett and Shanahan can't use the last game as motivation for the players, then they shouldn't be coaches. They were humiliated. They were sliced, diced, and then blended. I am pretty sure none of the players want to hear this stuff. I would rub their noses in it every day until game day came and they were fuming.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 17, 2010 11:13 AM | Report abuse

What happened with Shanahan in Denver has no bearing on what happens in Washington.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Why not? In Denver he had complete control, didn't he? Here he has complete control, doesn't he?

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Moe, you're confused because you're assuming there's only one way to rebuild.

While the standard rebuild consists of blowing your roster apart in favor of younger, cheaper players you hope to develop, there's also the rebuild that meshes veteran experience with young draft picks. We don't have many draft picks, so the initial stage of our "rebuild" will include more vets than I'm sure we'd like.

I point to the Saints...they didn't blow their roster to smithereens. They added vets like Brees and Sharper and Vilma and did a decent job in drafting guys. But they didn't win the SB in Year 1, it took 'em a couple years to put it all together.

I'm not pretending things look good right now. Just sayin' it's not automatically doomed to fail simply because we're used to seeing failure. New GM, new coach, new everything. I don't think it's too much to ask to have at least one FULL season to judge before we make the assertion that this is being built the wrong way.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Zorn looked and acted like he was in over his head. Shanahan has no such look...even though he's made a handful of mistakes in a short period of time.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:05 AM

In all fairness, I suspect any coach without SB rings or HOF credentials would learn to look like that coaching under Snyder/Ceratto.

Snyder actively undermines (weekly meetings with Zorn to discuss game strategy?) and distrusts his coach unless they already have such a NFL reputation that he needs them more than they need him.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Why is it that the Redskins always think that they can win now. It seems they are never willing to pay their dues (like the rest of the league) and build through the draft. It takes time to build a consistent winner. You would think they would've figured that out by now.

Also, players like D'Angelo Hall are bad for the team. He's always looking for the camera so he can say something stupid. Now I understand why the Falcons and Raiders cut him. Isn't he the one who said he wants the number one receiver on each team? It seems to me that he can't even cover the slot receiver let alone the number one.

Until the Redskins stop paying top dollar for washed up free agents (Hall, Haynesworth, Galloway etc.) who are only looking for a healthy payday, they will continue to be embarrassed.

Posted by: carterm1 | November 17, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

If Haslett and Shanahan can't use the last game as motivation for the players, then they shouldn't be coaches. They were humiliated. They were sliced, diced, and then blended. I am pretty sure none of the players want to hear this stuff. I would rub their noses in it every day until game day came and they were fuming.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 17, 2010 11:13 AM |

If Haslett and Shanny have to motivate the players they shouldn't be players!!!!!!

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

This team better come out against the Titans with a laser-like renewed focus.

From now on, win or lose, if the offense is not producing, it's unacceptable. A win is no longer a win. The Redskins are DEAD LAST in 3rd downs! Where is the URGENCY to execute on 3rd downs?!?! I absolutely hate everything on our offense right now. Our best wide receiver can't catch the ball unless it's against his body. These are the type of "playmakers" we're dealing with.

This style of defense we have right now only works if the team also has a high-powered offense that moves the ball and scores points. This high-turnover, bend-but-don't-break type of defense only works for teams like the Colts, Saints, and Patriots.

Posted by: MyPostIDisAfake | November 17, 2010 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Personally, I think McNabb's ability to hit the longball and his scrambling ability have been the only thing keeping us in some of these games. Even despite his low QB rating and completion percentage, I think he's been more of an asset than a liability. It's our incredibly horrible OLine and mediocre WR corp that are the real problems.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | November 17, 2010 11:04 AM


100% agree, verbatim.

Can't imagine how anyone actually watching the games could come to any other conclusion...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Personally, I think McNabb's ability to hit the longball and his scrambling ability have been the only thing keeping us in some of these games. Even despite his low QB rating and completion percentage, I think he's been more of an asset than a liability. It's our incredibly horrible OLine and mediocre WR corp that are the real problems. What on earth is Litchenwhatever doing starting over Dockery? I realize that Dock is more of a road grader an not a zone blocker, but come on Shanny, cut bait and admit defeat and put back in the guy that's not going to get destroyed on every single play. Same with Rabach - we love him, smart guy, but he's getting consistently blown backwards almost every series. And Heyer...we all could go on and on. WRs: we have a good TE, one decent older but still NFL-quality WR and a decent up and comer. There's absolutely no one there that will scare any D coordinator. No, we have much bigger problems than McNabb.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | November 17, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Yes we but the weaknesses you highlight could have been addressed at least partly with that high second round pick. And the fourth rounder in 2011. Imagine another QB with more time -- I think it's a better outcome than McNabb always under pressure forcing stuff on 3rd down. He hasn't made us better because of what we gave up for him.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Any bets on Shane lasting the season. Haslett taking over and maybe being HC next year.

Man is this team dysfunctional

Posted by: sheepherder | November 17, 2010 10:52 AM

None.

Posted by: edvar | November 17, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, all sales are final, try again next year!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 17, 2010 10:13 AM

Surely transfers to the Pessimism Pinto are free for the remainder of the year.

I'm not making a prediction this week...I don't think.

Posted by: PlayAction | November 17, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

The Pessimism Pinto is up and running, but don't expect it to be on time, and the interier smells worse than Personal_Fowl's body odor. Koolaid will no longer be served on board, we are now switching to Hater-Aid, a favorite choice of pabrainiac2003!

Come on, we gotta have a prediction. Just ask your broken machine, it's usually wrong anyway.

Posted by: monk811 | November 17, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Statistcal analyses:

mcNabbs picks DID matter

keiland Williams WASN'T a silver lining

Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 17, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Any bets on Shane lasting the season. Haslett taking over and maybe being HC next year.

Man is this team dysfunctional

Posted by: sheepherder |

Any bets on someone posting a dumber post then this today.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

The Pessimism Pinto is up and running, but don't expect it to be on time, and the interier smells worse than Personal_Fowl's body odor. Koolaid will no longer be served on board, we are now switching to Hater-Aid, a favorite choice of pabrainiac2003!

Come on, we gotta have a prediction. Just ask your broken machine, it's usually wrong anyway.

Posted by: monk811 | November 17, 2010 10:49 AM
------------------------------------------
He's going to be real upset if he doesn't predict and the final score is 24-20.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 17, 2010 10:54 AM

Sh!t...you're right...that would suck!

Blanket prediction for the rest of the season...

Redskins 24, Whoever They Are Playing 20

And monk...give me a double of that kook-aid before its all gone...not drinking the hater-aid just yet!

Posted by: PlayAction | November 17, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Personally, I think McNabb's ability to hit the longball and his scrambling ability have been the only thing keeping us in some of these games. Even despite his low QB rating and completion percentage, I think he's been more of an asset than a liability. It's our incredibly horrible OLine and mediocre WR corp that are the real problems.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | November 17, 2010 11:04 AM


100% agree, verbatim.

Can't imagine how anyone actually watching the games could come to any other conclusion...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:23 AM

I think with superior line play and the consistent running game that goes with it, people would be talking about what a steal it was to get McNabb and how the Eagles blew it.

But we will never know until we actually get a superior line and the consistent running game that goes with it.

...and so the blog rages on!

Posted by: edvar | November 17, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Any bets on someone posting a dumber post then this today.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2010 11:33 AM

Depends if hessone comes back this afternoon or not...not touching that bet.

Posted by: PlayAction | November 17, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I think with superior line play and the consistent running game that goes with it, people would be talking about what a steal it was to get McNabb and how the Eagles blew it.

Posted by: edvar | November 17, 2010 11:35 AM

Most NFL QBs look pretty good under those conditions...

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Why not? In Denver he had complete control, didn't he? Here he has complete control, doesn't he?

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 11:16 AM


Because you can't expect someone to replicate the same results without the same tools. Shanahan doesn't have the same owner, front office, scouts, or players. Having final say on personnel isn't the whole story...there's lots of other behind-the-scenes factors that go into it. I don't know about you, but I don't provide the exact same results in my current job as I do in my first job or the one after that and so on...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Any bets on Shane lasting the season. Haslett taking over and maybe being HC next year.

Man is this team dysfunctional

Posted by: sheepherder |

Any bets on someone posting a dumber post then this today.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2010 11:33 AM

50 - 50

Posted by: edvar | November 17, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Yes we but the weaknesses you highlight could have been addressed at least partly with that high second round pick. And the fourth rounder in 2011. Imagine another QB with more time -- I think it's a better outcome than McNabb always under pressure forcing stuff on 3rd down. He hasn't made us better because of what we gave up for him.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse
_______

That's certainly a reasonable opinion. Who knows what would have happened if Shanny had kept Campbell and used that 2nd rounder. I seriously doubt that that one player would have given us a competent line by himself, though. I do know that I'd rather have McNabb than Campbell on this team, so from that perspective, as well, I see it as an improvement.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | November 17, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse


We all hope for instant success, but n reality a rebuild is going to be filled with a bunch of ups and downs.

Imma lil confused.

When did 'rebuild' get mixed up with 'win now'?

The man from Denver--the man with all the power--has chosen the 'win now' path, not the slow going 'rebuild' one.

Rebuilding doesn't mean you toss drafts picks after injured players and past their prime quarterbacks.

Rebuilding mean you flip your big defensive lineman for draft picks before you hand him a $21 million check.

Rebuilding means you don't cut a young 6'2" wide out with 4.3 speed to hang on to ancient 'professional receivers'.

Finally, when you rebuild, you get younger and faster--and the redskins are about as old a team as it was the end of last year.

We are not rebuilding.

The man from Denver wants to 'win now'.

Only thing is, we ain't.

And that's why I'm confused.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 17, 2010 10:57 AM |

boy moe, you are right on and this is what I've been saying all along. the win now crew acts like they're patient, but just a few weeks ago they had playoff aspirations. some still do. until we keep draft picks and draft with some common sense, we'll stay a losing team. mcnabb isn't the answer to anything the redskins need addressed

Posted by: hessone | November 17, 2010 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Any bets on someone posting a dumber post then this today.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2010 11:33 AM


Anything from pabrian is a pretty safe bet...

edvar, good stuff dude...100% co-sign.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:46 AM | Report abuse

.... I don't know about you, but I don't provide the exact same results in my current job as I do in my first job or the one after that and so on...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:40 AM

But there's a reason employers spend so much time and money looking at your history and checking on your past before they hire you...

Can we agree Shanny is here largely because of his 2 SB wins?

If so, it's certainly fair to look at the rest of his record when estimating his abilities.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 11:48 AM | Report abuse


What happened with Shanahan in Denver has no bearing on what happens in Washington.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Why not? In Denver he had complete control, didn't he? Here he has complete control, doesn't he?

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 11:16 AM |

that's why we don't have the need for resumes pep. what you did at your prior job doesn't mean squat. ufb?

Posted by: hessone | November 17, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know where i can find the "On the field" Type authentic Skins jerseys? Not the actual game worn ones, but the ones that look like it. I saw a bunch of people at Fed Ex wearing them, but I can't find them anywhere. I am talking bout the type of jersey's that have the tight/fitted kind of sleeves.

Posted by: roccoskins | November 17, 2010 10:44 AM


NFLShop.com has them. $285. Expensive as heck, but I'm sure they're nice.

Posted by: freakzilla | November 17, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Moe,


The 49ers tried your way of re-building, total roster purge guess what they are still trying it 8 years later and they have'nt sniffed success.

Name me one team in the last 20 years that has done a complete roster purge and has even sniffed the Super Bowl. The team you name can't have a QB named Peyton Manning, he could have turned any team around.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

The season is over. They just don't have the personnel right now on both sides of the ball to be competitive. However, I do believe through the draft and some FAs, in two or three years, we'll be at the top of of division.

The two years Vinny and Snyder ran this team with Zorn at the helm set us back about four or five years. By not addressing the O-line, poor evaluation of talent at the WR position, and not providing depth for the D-line and secondary.

I also believe that Shanny has to get off his high horse. It might have worked in Denver, but its a whole new ball game here in D.C. Also, if McNabb is capable of being yanked with 2 minutes to go, then Kyle also needs to have his headset yanked from time to time when he's calling a bad game.

Posted by: clark202 | November 17, 2010 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Most NFL QBs look pretty good under those conditions...

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 11:40 AM

Only maybe.

Look back to the Norv era. We had a pretty good O line and a good running game and some idiot named Gus trying to run it. He gets hurt and in walks Trent Green - all of the sudden, Norv's Offense looks pretty good.

Jason Campbell had a pretty good O line under Gibbs 2.0, but can't get Saunders O to fly. Crank up the Toddball and watch the fun.

It's a team thing. Having a great line and a consistent running game would certainly help most QB's, but it's no guarantee they will take to O to a high level like having all three pieces in place - O line, running game and an effective QB.

...and the absence of a good line and running game will ground pretty much any QB. Imagine Peyton trying to run his O with our line. He'd be hurried all day. His accuracy would drop. His turn over's would rise. And back to earth he falls.

Posted by: edvar | November 17, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Imma lil confused.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 17, 2010 10:57 AM |

boy moe, you are right on and this is what I've been saying all along.

Posted by: hessone | November 17, 2010 11:45 AM


Explains a lot...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:58 AM | Report abuse


Yes we but the weaknesses you highlight could have been addressed at least partly with that high second round pick. And the fourth rounder in 2011. Imagine another QB with more time -- I think it's a better outcome than McNabb always under pressure forcing stuff on 3rd down. He hasn't made us better because of what we gave up for him.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 11:25 AM |

agree, maybe some day that'll happen

Posted by: hessone | November 17, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

keiland Williams WASN'T a silver lining


Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 17, 2010 11:32 AM

This is dumb, even by your lowly standards. K. Williams is one of the young players we can build around that have been brought into the fold this year. Your reflexive defense of Portis needn't include running down young guys who are making themselves into players right before our eyes.

I would say Armstrong, K. Williams, and Banks is a pretty good haul of players that didn't cost draft picks for one offseason.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 17, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Name me one team in the last 20 years that has done a complete roster purge and has even sniffed the Super Bowl.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 17, 2010 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Where was he advocating a complete roster purge?

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 17, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

It's a team thing. Having a great line and a consistent running game would certainly help most QB's, but it's no guarantee they will take to O to a high level like having all three pieces in place - O line, running game and an effective QB.


Posted by: edvar | November 17, 2010 11:57 AM

I know I'm playing devil's advocate here a little, but the big argument for doling out multiple draft picks and more money for a "franchise QB" was to raise the level of play of the O-line and WRs... the argument was poor play at QB was making them look bad.

...and yet, after obtaining a "franchise QB", I keep hearing how our O-line and WRs are still terrible. Shouldn't a franchise QB be making them look better?

What gives?

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse


Because you can't expect someone to replicate the same results without the same tools. Shanahan doesn't have the same owner, front office, scouts, or players.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 11:40 AM |

he has snyder though

Explains a lot...

Posted by: hessone | November 17, 2010 12:08 PM | Report abuse

(The Ballad Of The Redskins Defense)
I have to laugh and cackle
When D-Hall misses a tackle
Or we can't stop third and ten
And let the visitors score again

I choose to not get mad
That our defense is now so bad
And it seems like the 3-4
Just helps opponents to score more

I don't feel self-pity
That we can't get to the QB
They all have so much time to throw
That they can watch the green grass grow

I know Dan's paid a lot of bucks
But now the defense really sucks
The coaches have new schemes
(But these stink as well, it seems)

But what really bothered me
And made me stare at the TV
Seeing ten guys chase a pass
While Albert's lying on the grass

- Frustrated Fan -

Posted by: CommonSenseDude | November 17, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

- Frustrated Fan -

Posted by: CommonSenseDude | November 17, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I think the Redskins Marching Band should play this!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 17, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Can we agree Shanny is here largely because of his 2 SB wins?

If so, it's certainly fair to look at the rest of his record when estimating his abilities.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 11:48 AM


I totally agree with that. But the case that was being made by Pepper was that Shanahan's teams will fade down the stretch here because they did his last 3 years in Denver. I'm saying it's not that cut and dry...you're not going get the EXACT same result in Washington as he did in Denver. By that logic, we'll never see that December swoon because in Denver Shanahan went 8-8, 13-3, then back-to-back Super Bowls. He's only got a 5 year deal here, not 14...so if we can expect the EXACT same thing then we'll get back-to-back titles in 2012 and 2013. See how it works?

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse


I would say Armstrong, K. Williams, and Banks is a pretty good haul of players that didn't cost draft picks for one offseason.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 17, 2010 12:00 PM |

cosign 51,

gettin young is what it's all about, and giving these guys a shot doesn't hurt a team in need of some youth

Posted by: hessone | November 17, 2010 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Oakland and KC appear pretty damn close to playoff caliber after about 3 years, and they had the same level of talent that we had last year (next to none). STL is also almost there. When you have to do a complete roster purge it takes a little while and you need to have a coach who tailors the schemes to the players they have, which enhances coaching stability. They also identify their major weaknesses and wait to implement their ideal/desired schemes until the major, or required, pieces are in place. When GB implemented their 3-4, they got a monster NT and OLB - i.e. they got the required pieces in place before they implemented their ideal scheme. We are not seeing this here. In addition, to have the team come out and play so pitifully after a bye week is utterly awful and unacceptable.

Brown you're saying the NE game a few years ago was a pounding of this level - I say no. We were only down a touchdown after the 1st quarter, not 4. The Eagles could have put 100 points on us if they wanted to, NE at most could have put 60, which is a big difference. Both are humiliating, but on a different level. In addition, the NE game wasn't right after our bye week.

A coach is supposed to say "this is a major concern, how are we going to fix it with x, y, and z circumstances" over the bye week and make progress to fix them. Our biggest problem on offense has been 3rd down conversions and we got a whole zero conversions in the Philly game. Shanny and son did not do their job. One would figure they would study the Eagles' defense and our offense and develop some 3rd down plays that have a prayer of being effective. This wasn't done. Even having 30% conversion rate would be an improvement.

We shouldn't be be overly concerned after getting destroyed by Philly? Brown, your explanation is that we got beat by a superior team. Fine. How did we play with them last game to where we won? We came out and played, which we didn't do this time. After a bye week, having your players essentially take up space and nothing else, is only on the coaching staff. If we got outplayed because of talent, I can accept that. But not just outcoached, but also having the players pretend they were sick with the flu with how lethargic they were is grotesque. I don't understand how you can see this as anything else.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | November 17, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Nation, I told you so.

Shanahan is not the man for the job and Snyder is further ruining this team. As I said this summer, the correct approach is to rebuild with youth and take your lumps along the way. Instead, the Redskins have squandered draft picks on declining players and have one of the highest payrolls and oldest teams in the league. Monday night showed the folly of the current approach.

The Redskins have been stealing all year and this time they were caught red-handed and b!tch-slapped in front the entire country before being let off with a warning.

It's going to continue until Snyder gets more serious about winning instead of making $$$.

HTTR

Posted by: SlinginSammy | November 17, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

and yet, after obtaining a "franchise QB", I keep hearing how our O-line and WRs are still terrible. Shouldn't a franchise QB be making them look better?

What gives?


Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 12:07 PM


Because franchise QB doesn't equal Jesus Christ in cleats.

Put Peyton Manning behind this line with these WRs and see how well he does. The Redskins organization would be attending his funeral during the bye week...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Random tidbit, for your comment: I had 10 minutes or so or free time this morning, so I just went back and looked through our historical draft picks on Wikipedia, and saw a stunning trend. The most recent WR drafted by the Redskins that worked out and was a solid player for the Redskins was....wait for it....any guesses?....Gary Clark in freakin' 1984. No, I don't count Michael Westbrook as being a solid player considering he was #4 overall (but go ahead if you want to; the point is the same), and I didn't count Terrence Austin one way or another. Seriously. We have drafted one or two good players - primarily Desmond Howard and Keenan McCardell - but none of them have truly made an actual impact on the Redskins since Gary Clark, by my analysis. Wow.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | November 17, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

brownwood26,

I understand you're taking Peper's argument to a logical extreme, but I think Pepper is saying (and I agree) that recent history is more predictive than distant history.

A fighter who's been knocked out in his last 3 or 4 fights against top 10 competition is likely to keep losing to top 10 competition, no matter how much success he had against that level of competition earlier in his career.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Brown you're saying the NE game a few years ago was a pounding of this level - I say no. We were only down a touchdown after the 1st quarter, not 4. The Eagles could have put 100 points on us if they wanted to, NE at most could have put 60, which is a big difference. Both are humiliating, but on a different level. In addition, the NE game wasn't right after our bye week.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | November 17, 2010 12:16 PM


So you're saying that a 45 point drubbing in which we scored our one and ONLY touchdown in garbage time in the 4th quarter isn't as bad as a 31 point drubbing in which we scored 28 points (which, btw is our highest scoring output of the season thus far) simply because of when it was in the season and at what point of the game the bulk of the 50-burner was tallied?

I'm seriously not even going down this path with you...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Nation, I told you so.

Shanahan is not the man for the job and Snyder is further ruining this team. As I said this summer, the correct approach is to rebuild with youth and take your lumps along the way. Instead, the Redskins have squandered draft picks on declining players and have one of the highest payrolls and oldest teams in the league. Monday night showed the folly of the current approach.

The Redskins have been stealing all year and this time they were caught red-handed and b!tch-slapped in front the entire country before being let off with a warning.

It's going to continue until Snyder gets more serious about winning instead of making $$$.

HTTR

Posted by: SlinginSammy | November 17, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

BlueStarOintment, is that you?

Posted by: monk811 | November 17, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

this is probably the most upsetting non-playoff loss I can recall since the Bills game in '07 after 21 had just passed away and Gibbs...well, you remember. Coupled with the fact I had a buddy fly in from Phoenix and it was against my least favorite player in the league who thinks/thought it was OK to kill dogs with his bare hands and now he's the toast of the league...just sickening. Much as I loathe him, he is a force right now. I'm not going to pretend to understand how such a beat down is possible after our bye week, after we beat them in Philly less than two months ago (granted without dog killer most of the game), on national TV, at home, et al...maybe we're further than I thought from being a contender but I think this was an aberration. I honestly think we will beat Tennessee this week. If not, we are not a playoff team this year. Even if we do we may not be, but any real hopes require a win Sunday. Shouldn't pride require the same?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | November 17, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I believe that the redskins are doing a pretty good job of rebuilding after one offseason. And our team is significantly younger this year than it was last year and by the this time next year will be even younger and more talented. I think the best example of whats going on with the skins is what happened to the patriots before they where winning a large amount of superbowls in 1993.

In 1993, After two seasons dismal seasons with an unproven coach in Dick MacPherson (sounds familiar yet skin fans?), they went out and got a big money proven yet controversial coach in bill parcell (again sounds familiar washington?) in his first year he went 5-11, with a team that struggled to learn his methods offense and defensive schemes early (again...) and even took a few beatings of there own, one that comes to mind is the 45-7 lose to the new york jets. However, late in the season they finally responded to parcell and greatly improved. The next year they went 10-6.

Bill Parcell had a lot of turnover in his first year, about 50% of the team (again...) but a lot of the turnover still occurred with veteran players because yet again you only have 7 draft picks (wel most teams do) and its extremely hard to have 25 new players in one year off of draft picks alone. Like I keep saying this transition will take time and at least two off seasons.

The point I'm trying to make is it takes time to develop a solid team (at least two years) and it will take veteran established leaders to do it (The patriots had a pretty old team when they won the superbowl the first time). (The oldest team in the league last year was the Saints and they won the superbowl) I really doubt age is a factor regardless. Trust me every team takes there beatings when your trying to do so much turnover with a team, it is going to happen. But the redskins have not given up and have showed themselves resilient this year and I believe will prove it again this sunday.

Its obvious to me that we just dont have the pieces yet to do what they want on offense (this is the smallest set of receivers Shanny has ever had as a coach, and the worst inherited offensive line) or defense (they dont have the players yet to run a 3-4 and this hybrid type thing is not working, we simply dont have the lineman and linebackers yet. They need to get more 3-4 linebackers, and lineman which they'll do next year). The redskins will be a good team in the near future but as for this season I don't think we should judge them after 9 games. They'll need time.

Posted by: culprit59 | November 17, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Spit beeps.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

dive ass spitting beeps

Posted by: PlayAction | November 17, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse


I'm seriously not even going down this path with you...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 12:29 PM |

.. or anyone else with an opinion that doesn't fit my perspective, especially mcnabb

Posted by: hessone | November 17, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

I understand you're taking Peper's argument to a logical extreme, but I think Pepper is saying (and I agree) that recent history is more predictive than distant history.

A fighter who's been knocked out in his last 3 or 4 fights against top 10 competition is likely to keep losing to top 10 competition, no matter how much success he had against that level of competition earlier in his career.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 12:25 PM


And all I'm saying is that even though those trends exist, it's not a lock that that's what's going to happen chapter and verse. If that were the case, we would have won SBs during Gibbs 2.0 and we all know that wasn't the case.

Bottom line: we don't know ANYTHING for sure until it all plays out. Optimism, pessimism, "medium"...it's all guess work at this point in time. All I'm sayin' is let's see what happens...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Nation, I told you so.

Shanahan is not the man for the job and Snyder is further ruining this team. As I said this summer, the correct approach is to rebuild with youth and take your lumps along the way. Instead, the Redskins have squandered draft picks on declining players and have one of the highest payrolls and oldest teams in the league. Monday night showed the folly of the current approach.

The Redskins have been stealing all year and this time they were caught red-handed and b!tch-slapped in front the entire country before being let off with a warning.

It's going to continue until Snyder gets more serious about winning instead of making $$$.

HTTR

Posted by: SlinginSammy | November 17, 2010 12:19 PM | Report abuse

You don't deserve this handle. They gave up two mid round picks - likely a third this yr and fourth next - for a franchise QB. Now I'm the first to admit he's underachieved so far. But you cannot fault the team for making that move. we ARE rebuilding - we used our 1st rd pick on a left tackle - if that doesn't scream "rebuilding", I don't know what does. We have probably found our replacement for Portis in Torain. We have a dynamic rookie return man. We have a rookie WR who leads the league in yards/catch- OK he's 27 but that's still young, especially since he doesn't have 5 yrs of NFL poundings. We have a 24 yr old elite pass rusher, an elite 26 yr old safety. We drafted some projects on both lines. And we cut a lot of the fat from the last regime (ARE, Thomas, etc). You can slam Snyder all you please, but the guy wants to win. You can say what you will about Shanny and Allen, but they ARE taking this team in a different direction. It's so funny how people are on the Super Bowl bandwagon one day and then "we suck", "same old Skins" the next. Get a grip - we're an average team with holes to fix but if you think it's business as usual and we are no better than we were with Cerrato and Zorn, you are clueless.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | November 17, 2010 12:45 PM | Report abuse

this is probably the most upsetting non-playoff loss I can recall since the Bills game in '07 after 21 had just passed away and Gibbs...well, you remember. Coupled with the fact I had a buddy fly in from Phoenix and it was against my least favorite player in the league who thinks/thought it was OK to kill dogs with his bare hands and now he's the toast of the league...just sickening. Much as I loathe him, he is a force right now. I'm not going to pretend to understand how such a beat down is possible after our bye week, after we beat them in Philly less than two months ago (granted without dog killer most of the game), on national TV, at home, et al...maybe we're further than I thought from being a contender but I think this was an aberration. I honestly think we will beat Tennessee this week. If not, we are not a playoff team this year. Even if we do we may not be, but any real hopes require a win Sunday. Shouldn't pride require the same?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | November 17, 2010 12:33 PM | Report abuse

First off, the 'dog killer' will get his one day. My bet is a blind fan with a seeing-eye-dog is at a game, Vick goes to sign an autograph, the little boy accidentally spills ketchup from his hot dog on him, and the dog, thinking it's blood in which he goes crazy just from the sight of it, jumps at 'dog killer' and in a fit of rage and crushes Vick's jugular! A man can dream right?

Second, we were never really 'Super Bowl Contenders' anyway, the Shannahan/McNabb signings made us seem better than we actually are. We have improved from last year, but I guess people got their hopes up and expect more. As long as I see steady improvement from the previous year I'll be happy. But we're still at least 2 more offseasons from competing.

Posted by: monk811 | November 17, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

and yet, after obtaining a "franchise QB", I keep hearing how our O-line and WRs are still terrible. Shouldn't a franchise QB be making them look better?

What gives?


Posted by: Alan4 | November 17, 2010 12:07 PM


Because franchise QB doesn't equal Jesus Christ in cleats.

Put Peyton Manning behind this line with these WRs and see how well he does. The Redskins organization would be attending his funeral during the bye week...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 17, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

so J Campbell never got a fair look

Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 17, 2010 12:47 PM | Report abuse

To those that say getting McNabb wasn't a mistake....

We could have gotten Colt McCoy with that pick and we'd still have our 4th rounder this coming draft.

Which do you think is better for us long term?

Posted by: mac2j | November 17, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

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