Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: RedskinsInsider and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Redskins and Sports  |  RSS

Is Drafting a QB at 13 the Way to Go?

One of the NFL's silly seasons is upon us, the time when teams schedule hordes of meetings with college kids, and every workout, pro day and personal meeting become the stuff of rumors and speculation. Of course, that helps keep the NFL a year-round operation, with no real lulls in the news cycle or water-cooler conversations.

In the case of the Redskins especially, I caution against reading too much into any of it. They regularly bring in 30 or more kids, even in years when they don't have a first-round pick. This season, they'll pick 13th, a spot at which it's very difficult to target a particular player, which is all the more reason to look at as many players as possible.

That's how teams prepare in case players start to plummet - see Quinn, Brady - or rise. And there's always the possibility of wheeling and dealing and trading picks or drafted players. At 13, there are a number of variables, so it's no surprise that the Skins would thoroughly investigate players at all positions, including those at which they would seem to be set. With that in mind, I wouldn't read too much into the team working out quarterback Mark Sanchez at USC this week.

Given the holes on this roster, I don't see them taking a quarterback, but it's smart to have all the info at your disposal. It's a longshot even by their terms, but you can't rule out anything.

In this particular draft, I would not take a quarterback in the first round because none of them is a sure thing. As for the Redskins, the more pressing need is on the offensive line. If you're getting beat up and injured in the trenches, then your offense is not going to flourish no matter who is at quarterback.

Finding a value quarterback in the middle rounds might be another matter. But with the team in need of landing an immediate starter with that 13th pick and needing a starting linebacker, defensive end and offensive tackle, taking a quarterback with any of their picks would seem to be a luxury they cannot afford.

By Jason La Canfora  |  March 23, 2009; 8:30 AM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Week in Review: Obligatory Cutler Stuff, Free Agency, Etc.
Next: If the Redskins Had to Pick Today...

Comments

WOAH!

Posted by: Rod5 | March 23, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

if the team could get more picks lets say 7-8, I would not mind grabbing someone in the 5th/6th round. Another Colt type prospect, and if some other teams starter goes down shop them Todd. with 4 picks no way.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Well, JLC, they say in football if you don't have a Q you don't have anything. We have to think about it sometime.

Posted by: JHvet1 | March 23, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Morning

Posted by: Devo2 | March 23, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins need to revamp the O-Line before they bring in a new QB. I believe Jason Campbell is the right QB if we can keep him upright.

Posted by: A-Contrario | March 23, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

There are 3 QBs worth taking in the 1st round of the 2009 draft actually.

Unlike MarcMadness, I know what I am talking about........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Smith, Oher, Jackson, Ayers, Maybin, Cushing

I hope this is list of serious contenders, Sanchez could be a good bargaining chip for down trading.

a 1st rnd QB would destroy the chemistry of the team

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

BE GLAD THIS TRADE DIDN'T HAPPEN:

BRAYLON EDWARDS AVAILABLE AFTER ALL?
Posted by Mike Florio on March 23, 2009, 8:14 a.m.
After the Browns abruptly traded tight end Kellen Winslow to the Buccaneers on the first day of the 2009 league year, rumors began to swirl that receiver Braylon Edwards could be next.

Though the initial thinking was that Edwards won’t be dealt, rumors have persisted that the Browns have tried to trade him.

The latest comes from The Giant Insider, via Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News.

Per the report, the Giants offered the second-round and fifth-round picks obtained in the Jeremy Shockey trade. The Browns wanted both picks plus receiver Steve Smith. The Giants suggested Domenik Hixon or Mario Manningham instead. At that point, the talks petered out.

The real question for anyone who might be interested in Edwards is whether moving forward he’ll play like he did in 2007 (when he was very good) or 2008 (when he was very mediocre).

Further complicating matters is that Edwards’ contract expires after the 2009 season. Without a new CBA, however, he’ll be a restricted free agent only, which will give him less leverage for a big-money deal in 2010.

Though trade talks could resume at any point, the fact that the deal wasn’t done before the start of the offseason program suggests that the Browns have perhaps decided to move forward with Edwards. If, after all, he suffers a season-ending injury while working out or, eventually, practicing in T-shirt and shorts, the Browns will be on the hook for his $4.55 million base salary this season.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

oh god...

I know it's slow this time of year JLC but come on....Campbell is the least of our problems. OT, a DE that can get after the QB...these are where this team should be focusing in 1st round. Give me the best OT available or Orakapo (he'll probably be gone)

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | March 23, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Yes! Yes! Yes!

A million times YES!

The Jason Campbell experiment is over.

The guy flat out cannot score TDs, will not take chances, plays not to lose (instead of playing to win), holds on to the ball too long, doesn't command the respect of the offense, puts the defense in difficult positions, fumbles, has a losing W/L percentage, horrific red zone numbers, lacks the fire to scare opposing teams, and cannot read defenses.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

I think what JLC is missing here is that we are interested in trading down for more picks. One way to do that is to take the QB somebody has been gunning for and make them trade for the rights. It's risky but has been done in several occasions before. Two teams drafting behind us are looking for QB's: Jets (17) & Tampa (19). If the Skins can trade back and get one of those picks plus a 2nd rounder or a third they can address needs on both sides of the line.

Posted by: davidalanwatts | March 23, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

bringing in Sanchez, is just due dilligence...nothing to read about there...however smart move on their part....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

So many holes. So many holes. WHen you take the likes of Offensive tackle and Outside linebacker, not to mention ddefensive end and corner. ~in my best Dierdorf voice~

If they were to get crazy with the pick I would rather see them take KNowshon or a Harvin type

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

davidalanwatts

I think that is the biggest risk mover we could ever make.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Skins Fans!
Few more days to the draft and we are talking about a Quarterback? Wow! I doubt it.
With particular needs at the offensive line, seeing how our offensive line collapsed at the final stage of last year, I will be stunned if any quarterback is picked in this draft by the Skins, then again, knowing Snyder and Vinny at the control button, anything is possible.

Hail!

Posted by: abxinc | March 23, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

"Them replacing Tomlin isn't the big deal you make it out to be. The team he inherited had just won the Super Bowl and was built by Cowher. With minor changes it won another SB two years later in 2008."

Not really "minor" changes. That team replaced 50% of its starters from the team that won the Super Bowl 3 years ago, had to replace by far it's 2 most beloved leaders during the Cowher era (Bettis and Porter), and lost Cowher's two top offensive assistants (Wisenhunt and Grimm). The 2005 Steelers offense was built on a grind-it-out running game with a cautious but efficient passing game, good for being a #9 in points scored during the season. The 2008 Steelers offense was built on a more risk-taking, passing offense that was far less efficient and finished the season 20th in points scored, despite the fact that the 2008 Steelers defense was better in every measurable aspect than its 2005 counterpart (yards allowed, points allowed, and turnovers). The pass/run ratio of the offense in 2005 was 41/59, the pass run ratio in 2008 was 52/48.

Obviously, retaining Dick Lebeau was the biggest piece of continuity. Lebeau, however, was only part of the "Cowher" era for 2 seasons (they won the Super Bowl in his 2nd season). He's actually been a part of the "Tomlin" era for a longer tenure, despite the limited timeframe Tomlin has been the HC.

Make no mistake about it, this isn't a simple case of Barry Switzer taking over the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys and piggy-backing that squad to a title. The 2008 Steelers looks decidedly different than the 2005 Steelers, in roster makeup, philosophy, and in demeanor. Tomlin has put his mark on that squad, and it shows on the field. Watch Tomlin the next time his team makes a mistake. It's almost as if Tomlin embraces it. He's not the hard-nosed, in-your-face, old-school football coach that Cowher was. He's calm, cool, collected, and never phased. His team acts the part, which IMO is one of the major reasons why they came back after it seemed like Larry Fitzgerald broke their back in the 4th quarter.

As for Cowher "building" the team; it makes no difference to Tomlin. Cowher was a Joe Gibbs-type coach and manager. He had full control over personnel. Cowher HAD to build his teams. Tomlin is a pure head coach who has a general manager behind him making the personnel decisions. It makes no difference to him who "builds" his teams, all he has to do is coach them. If Tomlin ends up winning another SB, that team won't be "built" by him either. But it will have won because of him, just like this past season's team.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I think what JLC is missing here is that we are interested in trading down for more picks. One way to do that is to take the QB somebody has been gunning for and make them trade for the rights. It's risky but has been done in several occasions before. Two teams drafting behind us are looking for QB's: Jets (17) & Tampa (19). If the Skins can trade back and get one of those picks plus a 2nd rounder or a third they can address needs on both sides of the line.

Posted by: davidalanwatts | March 23, 2009 9:15 AM |

I don't think he missed that he actually said that exact thing.

My god I defended JLC, I need another cup of coffee.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 23, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Campbell could very well get it together. But I'll say this...No way Zorn loses his job trying to turn a Joe Gibbs "protect the football quarterback" into a west-coast guy forever. That destroys chemistry too. If Brennan isn't going to be the guy, brace yourselves for another Q in the building because Zorn will have to have HIS guy in there.

Posted by: JHvet1 | March 23, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Sports_Guru,

What do you think of the Skins if we pick up Josh Freeman? Mayok likes him more than Stafford........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

guru you gotta be kidding us

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

This is something the team does every year its one of the few things they do for the draft I agree with.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

someone send an amubulance over to Flounders building...he's fallen and is suffering from a severe concussion.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Sports_Guru,

What do you think of the Skins if we pick up Josh Freeman? Mayok likes him more than Stafford........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:20 AM

-------------------------

He is a monster of an athlete! I mean he's an inch taller and 25 pounds heavier than Jason Campbell. Plus, he's young, only 21... a lot of years ahead of him, and potentially moldable.

I loved his QB rating, but his W/L percentage was in the tank, but we're also talking about the Jayhawks here, and they don't have much of a supporting cast.

I would have to study his throwing motion, and how quickly he drops back in the pocket. Since we are now a West Coast offense, he would need to provide a lot of quickness that may be difficult with his atypical large QB physique.

I do think it is a very intriguing possibility that could have a tremendous upside.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

"Doesnt control the respect of the offense" at least make claims you can back up. I understand you dont like the guy, but this is getting ridiculuous.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 23, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

... I meant Wildcats, not Jayhawks... sorry.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

I think this year is up or out for JC17. I also think he deserves the chance.

Let's fix our lines and look at LB's and DB's.

Depth and speed!

Posted by: edvar | March 23, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Like Founder21 said, I think this has more to do with exploring possible trade down options.

The ideal situation (in my opinion) is that the Lions take Curry #1, and then when the Skins come up at #13, one of the top 2 QBs is still there. The Skisn will be in a great spot to trade with the best bidder between the Lions, Jets, and Bucs.

It help if you've at least scouted the QB. The more the Skins can convince the rest of the league that them "might" take a QB, the more it helps their chances of trading down.

I'm giving Vinny and Dan credit here . . . they sure got JLC doing exactly what they want him to do -- start spreading rumors that will confuse teams about what the Skins really want to do in the draft.

Posted by: HokiePaul | March 23, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

KingJoffeJoffer = best handle ever

"His mama call 'em Clay, I'ma call 'em Clay."

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

JHvet1, you better believe it's Campbell or nothing for Zorn. Snyder isn't mortgaging another few seasons on an unproven and inexperienced coach just because he feels that the HOF-Joe-Gibbs-picked QB wasn't good enough for his system. Zorn was brought in to make Campbell a star QB. If Campbell doesn't reach that point, Zorn doesn't have a job anymore.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

te has been speculating that he thinks the team will trade a #1 next year for a #1 this year, and I'm somewhat coming around on that, however only if they are able to trade back in the first.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 8:42 AM

This is close to what I've been saying, but there isn't a team in the league who would trade their first this year for the Redskins' first next year.

I think they'll stay at #13 to land a Big Plash, taking the BPA ("Biggest Plash Around", or what Vinnie terms the "Best Player Available"). And I think they'll trade their #1 next year for a #2 this year to get a need player -- OL or LB. The likely trade partner is New England who has three #2's this year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

If Detroit passes on a QB at #1 then they will have to do something at #20 to address the need. So make that 3 teams in need of a QB within 7 picks of the Skins. The only way to build leverage is to sell the possibility that you will take their guy off the board.

Posted by: davidalanwatts | March 23, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

"Doesnt control the respect of the offense" at least make claims you can back up. I understand you dont like the guy, but this is getting ridiculuous.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 23, 2009 9:26 AM

----------------------------------

King,

By saying that Jason campbell doesn't command the respect of his offense, I am referring to his ability to be the "field general" of the team.

Last year, the offense had way too many false starts, holding penalties, offensive pass interference, and other bone head penalties. We even had an offensive lineman try to advance a tipped pass, only to lose the ball and have it go the other way for a defensive TD.

There are two ways to see that these types of issue represent Jason Campbell's lack of command here...

1. He is unable to mentally force his players to play discilined football for fear of his wrath in the huddle.

2. The players around him feel that they have to amke something happen, becasue they know if they leave it up to Jason Campbell, he won't win the game for them. When players feel this, they play outside their role (i.e. offensive lineman trying to rack up yards after the catch). This leads to devastating penalties, fumbles and drive stoppers.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

"And I think they'll trade their #1 next year for a #2 this year to get a need player."

We discussed this on the previous thread. I am completely against trading the #1 pick next year. The 2010 1st round is going to be stacked with talent. If anything, the Skins should make moves to get multiple picks next year.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

"discilined football " ... meant to say disciplined football

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

bringing in Sanchez, is just due dilligence...nothing to read about there...however smart move on their part....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 9:15 AM

The other thing they get when they bring in Sanchez is a chance to talk to him about the other players on his team.

When Vilma and Sean Taylor were coming out, they brought in Vilma and asked him "Who is the leader on your team?" He told them it was Sean -- not Kellen Winslow, Jr. -- who most draft gurus thought they would pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

It's official. Sports_Guru is legit.

He just hates JC17 with a passion like 'IHateJLC' and 'JCaCa' hanles hate JLaC with a passion.

I too look Josh Freeman. JC17 was a project that was supposed to sit on the bench atleast 2-3 years. He wasn't like the others where you can just insert them in their 1st and 2nd year and sparks start to happen.

He was supposed to be brought around slowly, but Brunell was hurt and hurting the whole team..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

4 picks + 3 Signed QBs X multiple position holes = No Drafting of QBs in 2009 Draft.

Variable: Vinny Moron factor to the 4th power.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 23, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Mornin'...Heads up that the NFL will announce the matchups for the season opener and the first Sunday/Monday night games in the next few days, perhaps as early as today. The owners are meeting through Wednesday in California.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | March 23, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

4th,
I dont think thats a shocker. Almost everyone here has a person they unconditionally hate related to the team/league/whatever.
For me its Larry Michael and the Cowboys.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

"It's official. Sports_Guru is legit.

He just hates JC17 with a passion like 'IHateJLC' and 'JCaCa' hanles hate JLaC with a passion."

Right, because those handles are a great measuring stick for being "legit". You're better than that, 4th.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Todd Collins spot isn't set in cement.....

I think there would be some cost savings as he is one of the most highly paid back ups, not including VY and Leinart.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

It's official. Sports_Guru is legit...


Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:38

--------------------------------

A tear slowly falls from my left eye.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Jason

'....One of the NFL's silly seasons is upon us...'


Actually, what's silly is the notion the skins should draft a q-back when the team has only four picks and about 7 holes to fill.

Signing a free agent--Leftwich--as insurance would be smart, but then you'd have four arms fighting for practice time that really only belongs to the starter. Do you cut Colt to make space? Yes.

Really, it's up to Campbell and Zorn to create the situation where drafting a q-back is a moot issue.

Campbell has this season to earn his money. If he doesn't do it in a way that's satisfactory to the FO and staff, then he's gone, plain and simple.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

chrislarry,
You forgot to add in bobble-head and rookie Jersey sales, (must factor in the first picks classic 1 jersey sale along with the sale when we know the players number)

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

We discussed this on the previous thread. I am completely against trading the #1 pick next year.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 9:35 AM

This is my prediction, not my advice. It doesn't really matter what you or I think.

Vinnie will make the call and he and Zorn have their backs against the wall. They need to win this year, not next year when the draft looks better to you. They have too many needs and they would rather have a second rounder this year than a first rounder next year.

And the owner? Do you see him as a patient man?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Campbell didn't play till what, his 3rd year. How much longer did he need to sit ?

Posted by: drumer1972 | March 23, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

psps23 what's with the really long winded steelers blog

"By saying that Jason campbell doesn't command the respect of his offense, I am referring to his ability to be the "field general" of the team.

Last year, the offense had way too many false starts, holding penalties, offensive pass interference, and other bone head penalties. We even had an offensive lineman try to advance a tipped pass, only to lose the ball and have it go the other way for a defensive TD.

There are two ways to see that these types of issue represent Jason Campbell's lack of command here...

1. He is unable to mentally force his players to play discilined football for fear of his wrath in the huddle.

2. The players around him feel that they have to amke something happen, becasue they know if they leave it up to Jason Campbell, he won't win the game for them. When players feel this, they play outside their role (i.e. offensive lineman trying to rack up yards after the catch). This leads to devastating penalties, fumbles and drive stoppers.

Posted by: Sports_Guru"

Fascinating you just made all of this up and write it like it's fact. I think you have no idea what you're talking about here. How is offensive pass interference by a rookie with 1 year of college ball Campbell's lack of leadership

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

4th,
I dont think thats a shocker. Almost everyone here has a person they unconditionally hate related to the team/league/whatever.
For me its Larry Michael and the Cowboys.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 9:41 AM

............................

I don't like Larry Michael either. I cannot believe "the Danny" replaced Frank Herzog. Frank will always be the voice of the Redskins. Plus, Larry Michael seems to be a pompous jerk.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

13TD 6INT 3,000+yds passing, over 60% completion on a team where the Oline was non existent the second half of the season, only two WR's could even get open, and where the OC/HC called head scratching plays...Yeah, Campbell really sucks.

Posted by: ga8085 | March 23, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

If you could trade JC for a draft pick or Two, drafting a QB COULD be an option.

Posted by: Veretax | March 23, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

4th,
I dont think thats a shocker. Almost everyone here has a person they unconditionally hate related to the team/league/whatever.
For me its Larry Michael and the Cowboys.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

"It's official. Sports_Guru is legit.

He just hates JC17 with a passion like 'IHateJLC' and 'JCaCa' hanles hate JLaC with a passion."

Right, because those handles are a great measuring stick for being "legit". You're better than that, 4th.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 9:41 AM


But no one really trounces on the other 'extreme' haters. I'm in for equal rights (channeling in my distant ACLU demeanor).....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

moe, yankee talk for a second, has anyone had a WORST start to the year, than your third basemen?? Albiet, all of it brought on himself, but man, that guy can't wait till 09 is over.....

te, I could see a #1 next year for a #1 this year, but not the scenario you've laid out. We'd be getting hosed in that scenario....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Guru,

I cannot believe you attributed Pete Kendall's catch and fumble to Jason's perceived lack of leadership. So you are telling me if Cutler or Sanchez would have thrown that batted pass Kendall would have gotten out of the way?

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 23, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

"Do you cut Colt to make space? Yes."

You either cut Collins, or you don't bring in anybody else. Cutting Colt should not be an option. Either Collins is legit as a back-up QB who you would feel safe with as a spot starter, or he's off the roster. It's pointless to keep a 47 year old QB as the 3rd-string on a team when you have the option of a legit young project with future value.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

"This is my prediction, not my advice. It doesn't really matter what you or I think."

No kidding, but this place is for opinions. That is a terrible trade any way you look at it. What if they decide JC isn't their guy after this year? No 1st rounder to leverage or use on a QB. That would also be placing an enormous amount of faith in that 2nd round pick to come in and have impact right away, because as you said "They need to win this year". How much of an impact did those 2nd rounders have last year?

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Campbell didn't play till what, his 3rd year. How much longer did he need to sit ?

Posted by: drumer1972 | March 23, 2009 9:45 AM

Midway, 2nd Season. He was projected to be drafted in the 2nd/3rd round.

He wasn't ready. That and Al Saunders possibly ruined him like Spurrier did Ramsey (which is what I believe)....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

ere. How is offensive pass interference by a rookie with 1 year of college ball Campbell's lack of leadership

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 9:46

Actually there are three possible reasons for that, I go with number 3 personally...

1. Thomas wanted a bigger area to catch the ball to make up for Campbell's inaccurate passes.

2. Thomas felt like the game was on his shoulders, because Jason wasn't going to win it for him.

3. Thomas had no fear of Jason chewing him out in the huddle. How do I know this is true? Thomas did it repeatedly, without any fear of repercussion from his wussy field general.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

1. He is unable to mentally force his players to play discilined football for fear of his wrath in the huddle.

excerpt from sports-guru

LOL, THis is hilarious. Broadcasting formm the basement of the science building.

QB's need to have ESP to make the other players be afraid to come into the huddle, LOL

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

"They have too many needs and they would rather have a second rounder this year than a first rounder next year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator"

That depends. If Marcus Washington and Phillip Daniels sign, 2 immediate needs become 2 future needs. Every position on the team would have a "starter" in place for next season, and Snyder wouldn't feel the need to reach.

The only times this team has traded up for a player is when they had targeted someone prior to the draft. It's unclear whether that's the case this year. Might happen, might not.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

I think we should draft a competent GM with that 13th pick

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | March 23, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

There is a difference between don't like and hate. When I say I hate the cowboys, I mean if the teams new stadium caught fire, burned to the ground on the same day they imploded the old stadium, and they were unable to secure a right to play at any other college stadium in the area, and thus the team was forced to liquidate. I would take the day off from work to get piss drunk and party. similar things could be said about larry michael, if the guy was kicked off the radio and TV and banned from setting foot in DC or the surrounding counties then I would be happy.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure the players are terrified of Colt Brennan then.

Only things that make sense are OT, DE, LB, whether we trade down or not.

CB is the 'sleeper' we only have 4 with one injury you're down to Tryon who is untested and ...not tall

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Sports_Guru:Sports Insight::Bernie Madoff:Successful Investing

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

you attributed Pete Kendall's catch and fumble to Jason's perceived lack of leadership. So you are telling me if Cutler or Sanchez would have thrown that batted pass Kendall would have gotten out of the way?

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 23, 2009 9:49

If he were playing for a leader that he believed in, Kendall would have secured the ball and gone down immediately in order to give his leader another shot at obtaining victory.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

The Washington Redskins do not need to draft a quarterback in a draft where the two best prospects are guys who left college early to get a 1 year jump on the better prospects coming out next year.

The more interesting question is should the team take an elite cornerback with the 13th pick as behind Rogers/Hall, there's no depth. There is some team depth at the positions where bloggas feel the team should draft: de/slb/rt.

This post is just Jason Canfora drumming up business for the Wa Po, plain and simple.

And guess what: it's working.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

LOL, guzu, you're 100 percent idiot....no doubt about that.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

MistaMoe,

This is a good point. I am not a big Carlos Rogers fan... the man drops more INTs than Campbell drops fumbles.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

CB is the 'sleeper' we only have 4 with one injury you're down to Tryon who is untested and ...not tall

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

For the record, we have 5 CB's, we signed Westbrook to a non-practice squad contract. A move I love, as I loved the guys abilities every pre-season game I saw him in, probably is a better no 4 than Tryon.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

The Washington Redskins do not need to draft a quarterback in a draft where the two best prospects are guys who left college early to get a 1 year jump on the better prospects coming out next year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 10:00 AM |

"Need" is subjective. If they don't learn from history (Devin Thomas) they could relive it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

I love how 4th is up spouting silly season stuff to distract us from how miserable his bracket is shaping up and how the two teams he pimped, Michigan and UCLA ,didn't last the weekend.

Me....sitting in 3rd place with the entire right side of mt bracket in play, and only Wake Forest as my big miss.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 23, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

This post is up only because scout.com reported on 03/21/09 that sanchez will be visting the Redskins, amongst others teams.......

http://was.scout.com/2/849436.html

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

sports-gu, You're basing your case on #11 a rookie, 1 year of college, unproven WR???

T.O knew if he got a penalty Romo was going to whoop his tail in the huddle, LOL

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

We've known each other too long cL........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

1. Thomas wanted a bigger area to catch the ball to make up for Campbell's inaccurate passes.

2. Thomas felt like the game was on his shoulders, because Jason wasn't going to win it for him.

3. Thomas had no fear of Jason chewing him out in the huddle. How do I know this is true? Thomas did it repeatedly, without any fear of repercussion from his wussy field general.

Posted by: Sports_Guru |March 23, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

LOL! Okay, so now it's JC's fault for Thomas's mistakes and inexperience. You should be on TV with your great insights.. the Muppet Show comes to mind

Posted by: ga8085 | March 23, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

and for the record, I was completely unaware that the UCLA/Villanova game would be IN philly........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

All we can hope for is that the front office continues to hear that we don't want Jason Campbell to be a redskin next year, and that they do something about it.

This is for the good of the team, after all.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

(reposted cornerback point conclusion)

I hate to ramble on, but look at the skins corner depth chart:

Hall
Rogers
Smoot
Tyron
Westbrook (added)

An offensive coordinator will look at that list, spread the field, and throw the ball to whomever Smoot is covering as the 3rd corner and see plays get made.

If either Rogers/Hall go down, the skins face throwing teams with the like of the small Justin Tyron getting tried on by anyone with a big wide out.

And I wouldn't be so quick count on Westbrook as there might be reason why he's been a career practice squad player.

The skins would do well to take a strong/elite corner with the 13th pick and draft for need--o-line/slb/wlb--with the 3rd round pick.

The bloggas will hew and hate and cry, but when you look at the depth situation as Moe does, you see the point in making the pick at 13 a cb.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

C'mon guys - this is Guru's post - this is for him, all day - get used to it. (But the whole bit about JC17 not being a leader is good; you'd have thought that Guru was right there in the huddle with the team!)

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 23, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

reading and research 4th.....it is your friend!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 23, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

MistaMoe,

You are absolutely correct in your assertion that our CBs stink. You and I are pretty much alike.

I would trade Carlos Rogers, as I stated we should do with Jason Campbell last year, before anyone notices what a bust he truly is.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

JohnDin,

I have to admit... I love this thread!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Todd Collins spot isn't set in cement.....
I think there would be some cost savings as he is one of the most highly paid back ups, not including VY and Leinart.........
Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 9:42

I thought TC's money was guaranteed and would cost 3 mill against the cap if we cut him.

Posted by: will_ga | March 23, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Elsewhere on the week's agenda, Jim Zorn will speak Wednesday at the owners' meetings in Calif.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | March 23, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

"Hall
Rogers
Smoot
Tyron
Westbrook (added)"

Moe, you were spoiled by the signing of Hall at midseason last year. This is a very, very good depth chart at cornerback. There are very few teams with that type of depth at the CB position, and I'd say none that have the type of secondary support the Redskins safeties offer in combination. I'm certainly not sold on Tryon, but with Rogers, Hall, and Smoot coupled with Landry, Horton, Moore, and Doughty, the Skins are more than safe in the secondary. The skins rarely go into a traditional "dime" package regardless, so worrying about the 4th corner when the team currently lacks a 1st SLB, LDE, and possibly RT is reaching.

Besides, "spreading" the defense would mean less protection for the QB from our $100 million man. It's time for the defense to embrace that situation, not hide from it.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I thought TC's money was guaranteed and would cost 3 mill against the cap if we cut him.

Posted by: will_ga | March 23, 2009 10:15 A

I stand corrected.

I hope JZ doesn't get tongue-tied like he usually does in front of crowds. But then he makes a quirky/dopey face to get everyone laughing. (Yes, I have caught on to JZ's tricks)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Now, I know that, Guru - Love the thread, but don't abuse it!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 23, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Moe,

There will be other corners available later in the draft. No way we spend #13 on a corner. Plus, once we get Matteral Richardson back from the Texans, we can send Tyron packing.

'Sports_Guru:Sports Insight::Bernie Madoff:Successful Investing'
Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 9:58 AM

Guru, have you ever thought about helping/rooting/loving some other team, like the Cowboys? I understand that a$$-backwards advice usually works in Dallas?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

The reason this, draft a QB, is even being asked is because Campbell after 4 years has not stepped up and showed he can be a QB that can take a team to the Super Bowl. He's play's it safe, which makes his stats look good, but being passive also means to few points and to many 3 and outs.. Skins should of played Colt late last season even if it was just the final game, just to get a hint if he can the the future assuming Campbell is not.

Posted by: sovine08 | March 23, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Who would we trade Rogers for? There isnt much talent left out there at the cb positions in terms of free agents. Jenkins will prob be gone by the time we pick and Vontae Davis isnt a good pick at 13. I would like to see the skins pickup someone like Macho Harris, but that prob wont happen. Rogers isnt great by anyone's standards but he did improve last year and he isnt costing too much. Believe it or not our cbs could be worse.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 23, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

I hate to ramble on, but look at the skins corner depth chart:

Hall
Rogers
Smoot
Tyron
Westbrook (added)

An offensive coordinator will look at that list, spread the field, and throw the ball to whomever Smoot is covering as the 3rd corner and see plays get made.

If either Rogers/Hall go down, the skins face throwing teams with the like of the small Justin Tyron getting tried on by anyone with a big wide out.

And I wouldn't be so quick count on Westbrook as there might be reason why he's been a career practice squad player.

...............................

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Moe knows nothing about CBs. This was our line up for half the season last year.

Springs missed like half the games and DHall cam in mid-season.

I know what it is. If we had Leigh Torrence on that list you'd be confident in them then, right?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

King,

I would trade Rogers for a draft pick.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Kevin Barnes is THE BEST CB in the draft. His wonderlic score was 41 and he beasted out in his pro day.

Don't get it twisted, Vontae Davis is a work out king ala his brother and that's the only reason why he is projected top 15........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

O, and he is from Marylnd........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Skins should of played Colt late last season even if it was just the final game, just to get a hint if he can the the future assuming Campbell is not.
Posted by: sovine08 | March 23, 2009 10:22 AM

If they wanted a hint of Colt, then they would have played him. Or maybe they watch players practice during the week?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

All we can hope for is that the front office continues to hear that we don't want Jason Campbell to be a redskin next year, and that they do something about it.

This is for the good of the team, after all.

Posted by: Sports_Guru

By "WE" I guess you mean "YOU" - well speak for yourself buddy - don't bring the rest of us into your lunacy.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 23, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

I was hoping they would play Colt agaisnt the Eagles who were struggling for a playoff spot. We were out of playoff contention at the time, so why not?

Oh, that would have been such a great chance to see if he could continue his magic!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

guru

'...I would trade Carlos Rogers..'

Moving Rogers only compounds the stated issue of depth as you would still have to replace him with a guy equal in ability.

I don't see the sense in that especially when you remember we face some very good passing teams next season.


psps23

'...Moe, you were spoiled by the signing of Hall at midseason last year. This is a very, very good depth chart at cornerback...'


I think Hall/Rogers/Smoot are fine. But if there's an injury to anyone of them, do you want to depend on the bottom half of that depth chart?

Don't think so.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

"Rogers isnt great by anyone's standards"

Speak for yourself. Rogers is the most complete CB on the team and is a major reason why this defense ended last season 4th overall, despite having a negative pass-rush. The ONLY downside to Rogers is that he's not a gamebreaking turnover machine. But what I guarantee you overlook is the fact that Rogers gets his hands on the ball more than any other DB on the team. Believe me, that's not an accident.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

"Oh, that would have been such a great chance to see if he could continue his magic!"

possibly, the creepiest post ever made on RI....you're just a weird cat guru....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

psp,

Rogers could have won us a playoff game with a pick 6, and still cannot catch an INT.

He, like his Auburn team mate Jason Campbell, is a loser...Oh, and I have nothing against Auburn.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

MIXED REVIEWS ON FREEMAN
Posted by Mike Florio on March 23, 2009, 10:12 a.m.

On Sunday night, we posted the opinions of a league source who believes that all three first-round quarterbacks will be gone by the time the Jets exercise their pick at No. 17.

Another source, whose team currently has no need for a starting quarterback, offers a different view.

“Freeman is quite lacking,” the source said. “He’s got bust written all over him.”

And so goes the pre-draft process, with 32 teams having 32 different employees who might have 32 different opinions about each player.

Apart from the misinformation that is common at this time of year, different scouts genuinely have different views of players.

As we’ve learned from past drafts, there’s no science to the evaluation of guys who haven’t worn an NFL helmet since trick-or-treating at age six. If there were, the Hall of Famers from each class would emerge in the first couple of picks, the perennial Pro Bowlers would be next, the consistent starters would follow, then the backups, then the camp fodder.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Rogers more complete over DHall?

I doubt that.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

I do get a little tingly when I think of what Colt might do for this team.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

"He, like his Auburn team mate Jason Campbell, is a loser...Oh, and I have nothing against Auburn."
Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:35 AM

Funny how JC17 & Los were, like, undefeated in their senior year at Auburn?

Dam^it Guru, the more I type- the dumber I feel.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

"I think Hall/Rogers/Smoot are fine. But if there's an injury to anyone of them, do you want to depend on the bottom half of that depth chart?"

You could say that about almost every position on the team. Only ones I wouldn't be worried about are DT and possibly RB and S. Do you really think an injury to Smoot, Hall, or Rogers would concern you more than an injury to Santana Moss, London Fletcher, or Chris Samuels? At least you'd still have starters playing if one of the 3 CBs went down.

Depth could be used at every position. Unfortunately, this team also has frontline issues at a few. Taking a CB with the #13 is not a luxury that this team can afford.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"Rogers more complete over DHall?

I doubt that."

I don't. Hall gets beat way more than Los. The only weakness Los has just happens to be Hall's strength. Los covers and hits better than Hall.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

4thfloor

'...Moe knows nothing about CBs...'


Moe was once a Divsion II cornerback.

6'1, 195, 4.45 forty exactly.

I still remember--at 45, now--how the coverage schemes work and the difference between '2 deep' and 'umbrella' and 'zero' coverage.

The NFL is a passing league. And I do know I'd rather make sure I had some guys (3-4) who can press and cover at all spots as the rules and open formations give the passing folks all the breaks.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

One thing all the Rodgers and Campbell haters are forgetting . . .

They are very cost effective players at this point, and are in contract years.

I'm not sold that either are elite talent, but neither are being paid as elite talent either.

If you trade Campbell or Rodgers, you will not find a better alternative without paying much more (which the Skins can't afford to do this year). You don't want everyone on the team to be overpaid for their position and performance.

You can also expect both players to be at the top of their game heading into contract years. I'm predicting solid seasons by both.

Posted by: HokiePaul | March 23, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Funny how JC17 & Los were, like, undefeated in their senior year at Auburn?

................

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 10:39 AM

So what happened when they entered the NFL?

Didn't CR22 win the best college CB award (I forgot the name of it)? But now, he can not catch a freakin ball to save his life.

Wasn't Campbell playing in the WCO? So, why can't he throw the ball early in the timed routes instead of late when he is absolutely sure the receiver is open, which you can not do in this league.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Dam^it Guru, the more I type- the dumber I feel.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 10:39 AM

===========

It's all part of my master plan!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

"Rogers more complete over DHall?

I doubt that.

Posted by: 4thFloor"

Absolutely. Hall is an outside cover corner who's game is predicated on jumping routes and playing with help over the top because of it. Rogers is a big, physical corner that plays on the outside, in the slot, or even lines up at safety. He's a big-hitter combined with a cover corner, and he doesn't rely on over the top help every down to be successful. I would love for Rogers to be that gamebreaker, but the fact that he isn't doesn't deter my judgment of him as the most complete corner this team has.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

"Didn't CR22 win the best college CB award (I forgot the name of it)? But now, he can not catch a freakin ball to save his life."

He won the Thorpe Award for the Nation's top defensive back. No one threw his way because he blanketed people. CB's should be judged by more than INTs alone.

"Wasn't Campbell playing in the WCO? So, why can't he throw the ball early in the timed routes instead of late when he is absolutely sure the receiver is open, which you can not do in this league....."

Campbell was playing on a good team with a solid offensive line and a good running game - like he did with the 6-2 start this past year.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Rogers is a very good CB with a very tragic flaw.

If you could combine Hall and Rogers skills you'd have a top 3 CB in the league...

Hopefully an improved pass rush will mitigate some of both players weakness.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 23, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

I cannot see it happening, but if any of the top three QB's are available at Washington's place in the draft, then I think they will be able to trade out of that pick easily. Trading down for multiple picks in the 2nd round is the best thing the Redskins can do. They can find talent at linebacker and at an interior line position in the 2nd round. They will have to take some reaches in the later rounds for maybe a defensive lineman and offensive tackle, and if there is a later round developmental QB propsect available, then they should pull the trigger. Are they going to find day one contributors in this draft? Maybe at linebacker, but that is about it. Personally, I think drafting a linebacker in the first round would be a waste. There's just not that much difference between the linebackers that will be available at 13 and those available in the 2nd round.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 23, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

"6'1, 195, 4.45 forty exactly."

Damn Moe. If you were coming out today, you'd probably be a 3rd rounder based on the combine results alone.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

4th,
My point was that JC17 and Los are NOT losers. They are Redskins! And also that Guru has no credibility!

Los has bad hands but he still comes down with a few INTs...

IDK why Campbell hasn't exploded in his second tour of the WCO? Different coaching? Better Defenses? Smaller receivers? Maybe Campbell wanted to save his best season for the last one on his contract?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

I just feel that to be a good cornerback... you have to be able to hold on to INTs

...and to be a good quarterback... you have to be able to throw TDs.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Sports_Guru : guru :: AIG : pay for performance

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

My apologizes Moe.

Reorg:

Moe knows nothing about the Redskins CB situation if he is suggesting our depth is suspect. We have 3 starting caliber CBs on the roster. We had 4 last year and one or 2 was always mad.

If we picked a CB @ #13, he would prob be the same type of prima donna as Los, Smooot, DHall are. Meaning he wants to get on the field.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Her's a draft day scenario I can see happening.
New England gets Redskin's pick 13 and Julius Peppers.
Carolina gets New England's picks 34 & 120.
The Redskins get New England's picks 23 & 47.
The Skins need two top 50s for OT,OG,DE,OLB
potential starters.
New England wants Peppers and Ray Maualuga.
The Panthers need value for Peppers.

Posted by: sheik1 | March 23, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

"Oh, that would have been such a great chance to see if he could continue his magic!"...

At this point in his career, Colt couldn't get a bunny to hide up his azz if he lubed up with carrot flavored KY.

Posted by: will_ga | March 23, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

aren't all gurus basically frauds...think about it.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 23, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Carolina gets New England's picks 34 & 120.

So the panthers trade J. Peppers for a 2nd round pick, and what a 4th rounder??

Right........

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

The best thing we could do at qb would be to scrap Collins, and sign Garcia. That way we have a viable backup option (For all you JC haters) and someone who is familiar with this type of offense and could help JC improve...I think it is funny that one of the things that talking heads and "experts" seem to think is one of strengths(our secondary) everybody is bashing. Denver has proven it doesnt matter how good your cbs are if qbs have forever to throw they will get torched.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 23, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

psps:"Snyder isn't mortgaging another few seasons on an unproven and inexperienced coach just because he feels that the HOF-Joe-Gibbs-picked QB wasn't good enough for his system. Zorn was brought in to make Campbell a star QB"

Zorn was brought in for one purpose and impulsively used for another. I suspect both QB and coach suffered for that decision.

Jason wasn't doing very well in the Saunders offense and he is a better fit for a modified West Coach. If Zorn had gotten a chance to work with him exclusively for a season, both would have benefited from it. Instead Zorn wound up giving press conferences and pretending to supervise Greg Blache.

Campbell, meanwhile, made clear, measurable, year-over-year progress, the sort that in any rational organization gets you job security for another year.

Now if we could only find a rational organization he could play for...

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

He won the Thorpe Award for the Nation's top defensive back. No one threw his way because he blanketed people. CB's should be judged by more than INTs alone.

''''''''''''''

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 10:48 AM


Yeah, but in the NFL, if the threat of an possible INT is not there, the NFL QB will keep throwing without fear (See last year's BMore game in the 4th QTR).

Have you noticed that all the big time current NFL CBs primarily come from small schools or they weren't really known in college?

Cromartie, Rogers-Cromartie, Rasheen Mathis, As. Nsmouga, and Leodis McKeldon (sp?) to name a few off top of the head.

What is the difference between the above names and Los? INTs and gamechangers are not Los but are what makes a CB a true NFL CB.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Excuse me, I meant "West Coast". The West Coach left for San Antone in 1879.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: mopp04 | March 23, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

yoderlayhee: "He won the Thorpe Award for the Nation's top defensive back. No one threw his way because he blanketed people. CB's should be judged by more than INTs alone."

Definitely. Judging a DB by the number of interceptions is silly. The more INTs he gets one season, the more they'll avoid him the next.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

I am JASON CAMPBELL. I am endeared by fans for my positive attitude, my disciplined and professional approach to warding off attacks from my critics and the naysayers, my unbounded determination to improve my play, my humble conduct and upbringing, my supportive nature which fosters a spirit of team unity, my unselfishness, and my dedication to become a leader of my team. I am a consummate team player who protects the football and executes the plays called by the coach. Our offense will flourish when we employ #2 and #3 receivers who can consistently separate from their defenders and when our Offensive line opens holes for our running game.

Posted by: all_star_0013 | March 23, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

The best thing we could do at qb would be to scrap Collins, and sign Garcia.

Not gonna happen. We just don't have the cap room. For better or worse, barring some bizarre deal, we have to go with JC, TC, and Colt. Honestly, I don't think that is such a bad QB depth chart. Plenty of other teams would like to have it I bet.

Posted by: will_ga | March 23, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"INTs and gamechangers are not Los but are what makes a CB a true NFL CB......."

INTs make them elite. Los was on the verge of being elite last year. The ability to not get consistently beat by NFL WR's is what makes a CB a true NFL CB. I think fans get frustrated by Los' drops and their judgement gets clouded. He's a very good CB.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"Cromartie, Rogers-Cromartie, Rasheen Mathis, As. Nsmouga, and Leodis McKeldon (sp?) to name a few off top of the head.

What is the difference between the above names and Los?"

Posted by: 4thFloor

The difference? That Los's defense was much, much better than any of the names mentioned above, despite having an openly weak defensive line, chronically injured linebackers, and an aversion to interceptions.

Look beyond the number of INTs my friend...

By the way, we all love our friend Deangelo Hall here. Clearly one of the best set of hands a CB can have in this league. In half a season of play, how many more INTs did Hall have over Rogers?

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

aren't all gurus basically frauds...think about it.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 23, 2009 10:54 AM

Don't burst my bubble, CL. I've always looked up to you, Nate, Sween as the Gurus of RI. Now you're telling me you're a fraud? Ouch. But, I'm not really a talent evaluator, either.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

"Campbell, meanwhile, made clear, measurable, year-over-year progress, the sort that in any rational organization gets you job security for another year."

Exactly. And so far, so good with this organization. We'll see how it plays out.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

4thfloor/psps23

'....Damn Moe. If you were coming out today, you'd probably be a 3rd rounder based on the combine results alone....'


Not exactly. I couldn't catch nothing but the flu.

I posted the cornerback issue based on what I think the front office sees about the team, not what I think about the situation.

The redskins like the sexy selections with high picks, and de/o-line/slb don't fit that--that's why I think getting some grip on what they might do crossed my burned out little mind this morning.

After this, I'm done with the issue--but if they take a corner, well.....

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

At 13 there is a good shot that 2 or all 3 of the top QBs will be there and if so we have a great shot at trading back and we could pick up Britton or Loadholt or Mack later in the first and a top guard in the 2nd. I would love to see two top flight picks on the oline out of the draft. They can't spend more on defense then they already have to make a top 4 unit better. We have to address the oline. If we can trade back and pick up two picks for the right side of the line then in the 3rd we can get a LB and go virtually any direction with the two late picks.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 23, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

So when Walt Harris collected a bunch of junk INTs for 49ers that made him a "true NFL CB"

You really couldn't be more wrong 4th if it had been your goal. There are numerous factors that define the postion, to say INTs are more important than ability cover, pass defended, tackles, run support, thrown at yadda yadda is simply silly.

Many NFL CBs who get lots of INTS are b/c they get thrown on a ton and the law of averages suggests that some end up in their hands. Go take look at a 10 year sample size of INT leaders and you will see plenty of mediocre CBS.....

Also plenty of CBs from big schools...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 23, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Well said Yoder!

"The ability to not get consistently beat by NFL WR's is what makes a CB a true NFL CB."

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Jerry Garcia?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 23, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Cherry Garcia?

Posted by: chrislarry | March 23, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Skins Fans!
STOP reading Guru's thread. The Lucifer's goal is to make this forum as confused, mentally challenged and moronic as he or she is, evidently with malicious intent.
Fans, continue to be subjective in your approach, abandon Guru's satanic intent.

Hail!

Posted by: abxinc | March 23, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

samson151

'....If Zorn had gotten a chance to work with him exclusively for a season, both would have benefited from it...'

Agreed.

I hate to play, 'Woulda, shoulda, coulda,...," but this could have been the situation had Spags not bolted on the team the way he did.

I think Zorn will scheme to what Campbell does best and let the guy make the best out of it.

The things is, is the fanbase/FO patience enough to wait and see what happens?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

abxinc,

Don't look in your closet...

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 23, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Random wast of time question for all, a hypothetical scenario.

If the NFL expanded to 40 teams, and a AFC North/East team was placed in Washington DC. If they played @ RFK or Nats Stadium. And the owner was someone with a Gibbs/Monk/Green like reputation, and hired a quality GM to take care of the front office, basically a FO that is the anti-Redskins FO.

What % of DC fans would change loyalties and would you? I am assuming that the Cowboys fans in DC would mostly change to this other hypothetical team.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

That's a lot of "ifs," Alex, but it's a good question...

Posted by: Cindy Boren | March 23, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Skins Fans!

GURU the great deceiver just wrote to say "Don't look in your closet..." well, I just looked in my closet! Nothing there but GURU's fabricated fear mongering and lies about Jason Campbell. GURU, are you by any chance related to Dick Chaney or George Bush?
You sound like one of the triplets of evil.
A dooms day philosopher.
Your game is about to end. Shot your useless brain up, be sincere to a common cause of true critique and not just become a recalcitrant.

Hail!

Posted by: abxinc | March 23, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Alex,

Depends on how much the concession stand prices would be.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Right after Jason LaC defends the recent posts about Rabach here he is slamming the offensive line. Make up your mind Jason ...

The OL, starting at center, is the primary reason why the team plummeted from 6-2 to 2-6. It has to be addressed in the next 2 drafts and thereafter on an ongoing basis.

They do need a new OLB. They do need a new cornerback yet again.

They could use a defensive end or 2 but that is not a critical need.

Quarterback is something they can address in a future draft. The Patriots went from Bledsoe to Brady and almost Cassel. The Redskins have drafted reasonable QB's who in some cases are still playing. They should continue to draft QB's just as they have been doing on an ongoing basis.

But this draft is about need to replace aging starters. The disastrous trade involving Jason Taylor in conjunction with signing Haynesworth has crippled there ability to address their needs on a best player available basis.

Posted by: priestholmes | March 23, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Basically I just am listing as many things that Skins fans don't like about the team and saying If another team came to town with out those problems would you change loyalties.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Is Requesting a New Beat Reporter the Way to Go?

One of the NFL's dumbest beat reporters is upon us, the time when most reporters are gaining valuable info for their team’s fan base and providing TRUE Insider reporting. Teams schedule hordes of meetings with college kids, and every workout, pro day and personal meeting become the stuff of rumors and speculation. Of course, most teams have valuable BEAT reporters that actually care about their teams and fans, however in this dark and gloomy time, the REDSKIN fans are left with a D-Bag who would rather be the Ravens beat writer and spend his quality time with his favorite player – LEIGH F’N TORRENCE. Let us not forget the invaluable time he puts into his dark, sadistic and useless postings – mostly ranting about how much he hates Vincenzo Cerrato, the Skins UnderBoss and the spending of his skinnier Twin Brother Danny Snydely.
In the case of the Redskins especially, I caution against reading too much into any of it. Rather than post or report useful information, such as Available Cap Space, true needs or even an interview with the FO or players – we as fans are treated to such delights as Euro-Futbol transactions, Hockey news or even brown nosing. What could be better from a Beat Reporter.
Since we obviously know that JLAC is underperforming and lacks any real insider information, I have to ask if we should entertain a new BLOG or even asking for a NEW beat writer that cares.
Given the holes on this BLOG, I don't see them promoting JReid, but it's smart to have all the info at your disposal. It would be great to hold an open invitation to some of its fans and subscribers to see if any of them could do a better job. It's a longshot even by their terms, but you can't rule out anything.
In this particular case, I would rather have a donkey be the Insider Reporter to the Washington Post or even a child, hell why not Vincenzo Cerrato, he has his own show?

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 23, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

That's a lot of "ifs," Alex, but it's a good question...

Posted by: Cindy Boren | March 23, 2009 11:31 AM

They're probably talking about it right now at the owners' meeting. In private, of course. Not in the general meetings or in earshot of the present FO.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, everyone's a freakin' expert on how the media should do their job

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 23, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Alex I would, only because Snyderratto has definitely worn me out. Snyder actually is the lesser evil of the two for me, I think he handled the ST tragedy admirably, I think he treats his players and coaches well, but he's just an idiot who has way to much loyalty to Cerrato and way to much desire to be involved. But if I spent 800 mil I might be the same way. If Cerrato were gone though I wouldn't, for me it all comes down to Vinny, as long as that turd of a human being is involved with our beloved Skins they will not be winners. I still believe there is nothing wrong with Snyder if he could find the right combo of personality that could allow him to be involved but not the decision maker then Snyder could be an asset. I do honestly believe, if we miss the playoffs, Vinny is gone finally, two years of draft picks, his coach, his signings, he's out of excuses and there are too man huge names out there for Snyder to resist, and all of them would want control, so IMHO its playoffs or JC, JZ, and Vinny are all gone.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 23, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

matthewvickers,
Just assume average event concession prices.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

What I said of course isn't applied across the board to all CBs from College to the NFL. But you have to admit, what you do in college dosen't translate to the NFL.

Cl - I bet the next year they weren't throwing W Harris way like they were during his 10 INTs season....

My thing is the ability to catch INTs. Not just catching them.

Again, to all pointing to CR22 as a shutdaown corner. Why didn't he shut down Derrick Mason late in the 4th QTR, one on one, when the Skins needed him?

So, my point to people trying to cloud and marginalize it is this:

If you can't catch the ball, the QB has no reason at all not to throw it to you. If you can catch the ball, then you would have taken away one third of the field from where the QB can throw the ball.

I would rank that higher than run support, tackles, and passes defended. 2 out of 3, if I may add, that Dion Sanders was the absolute worst at, but he is yet considered one of the all time greats.


Also, as far as small schools and relative unknowns (until the month before the draft), I am saying that unknowns and small school players are disproportionately drafted at a higher rate as DBs compared to other positions they are drafted at and the rate they are drafted.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

JLac is the ONLY Wash Post reporter not afraid to be objective when reporting about the Skins. That is what a real journalist is all about.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Darell Green - Small School (Prime Example numero uno)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell will be the same QB, this year, that he has been for the last 4 years.
Joe Montana outside of the red zone and Hannah Montana inside the red zone.
Save your money, stay home, tivo the game, watch it in 30 minutes and spend quality time with your family.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

You Carlos Rogers haters (Sports guru) are crazy. Yes, it's true that he drops a lot of interceptions. But the #1 duty of a cornerback is to prevent the a receiver from catching the ball. If he can come away with an interception, then that's just icing on the cake. Rogers drops a lot of INTs, but he fulfills his primary duty and did it rather well last year. If you check out his stats, he had 24 passes defended. Which is more than many other CBs in the league. If you trade Rogers, who are you gonna pick up? You gonna draft someone from college? That would be a big mistake. Because we are not gonna draft a CB in the 1st round when we need a OL and LB. And if we wait till the 3rd round, we get Tryon #2.

And for the person that listed Cromartie, Asomugha, and Mckelvin, none of them had more interceptions than Rogers. Mathis and Rodgers-Cromartie had 4, but that is not an exceptional total. And I am pretty sure that you were not watching every one of their games to notice every dropped INT they possibly had because you were prolly watching the skins and over analyzing every one of their moves.

One last point, Darrell Green never had more than 5 interceptions in any particular season, and he only accomplished that 3 times, all of which were in his first 10 seasons in the league. Most years he had 1-3 interceptions. Does that make him a bad player? No, he did his job, he prevented playes from catching the ball and even if they did, he minimized their yards after catch.

Sometimes when I read these comments, you guys just seem rather ungrateful. Yes, we have not won a super bowl since 1992, but that does not mean we should take it out on every single player that ever lines up for this team. Does Rogers go out their and fool around on the field, NO, he DOES his job. And to fault a guy for doing that is just wrong. Their is a reason he is in the NFL and you haters are not.

Posted by: bstroma1 | March 23, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

"At 13 there is a good shot that 2 or all 3 of the top QBs will be there and if so we have a great shot at trading back and we could pick up Britton or Loadholt or Mack later in the first and a top guard in the 2nd."

Better hope the Jets don't trade for Cutler.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

But the #1 duty of a cornerback is to prevent the a receiver from catching the ball.

Posted by: bstroma1 | March 23, 2009 11:47 AM

Carlos Rogers. 4th QTR vs. Ravens. Derrick Mason.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"Again, to all pointing to CR22 as a shutdaown corner. Why didn't he shut down Derrick Mason late in the 4th QTR, one on one, when the Skins needed him?"

The fact that you're pointing to ONE specific instance says it all.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

One last point, Darrell Green never had more than 5 interceptions in any particular season, and he only accomplished that 3 times, all of which were in his first 10 seasons in the league. Most years he had 1-3 interceptions.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Reason being for the decline after the early years..The opposing Offenses stopped throwing in his area. He shut down one half of the field. You can see it in his stats.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Think about what you are saying. A player allows someone to make a play on him in 1 quarter of 1 game and his entire season should be based on that. Every one gets beat at some point. And to say a player sucks because of that is ignorance. Its like saying Deion Sanders was great until he allowed that one touchdown in that one random game. After that he was a terrible player? No! That Baltimore game had a lot of moments during which the Skins could have played better. How about the offensive line in the first two series. If they had played better we would never have allowed those two quick turnovers. Once again, your over analyzing. One play does not make or break a player.

Posted by: bstroma1 | March 23, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

"So, my point to people trying to cloud and marginalize it is this: If you can catch the ball, then you would have taken away one third of the field from where the QB can throw the ball."

4th, you're completely wrong on this one, and are the main culprit of trying to "cloud and marginalize" here. If you can catch the ball, cover your man stride for stride, read the QBs eyes and body language to perfection in order to know when he's baiting and when he's actually going to throw it, read the WR's route, AND time the break just right, THEN you have taken away one third of the field from where the QB can throw the ball.

There are maybe 4 or 5 cornerbacks in the last 3 decades that fit that description. The rest have all been "gamblers", guys that jump routes hoping for glory, yet consistently get thrown at because the QB knows he can burn him by getting the guy to guess wrong. Every CB you mentioned, save Nnamdi Asomugha (who had a total of 1 interception last year by the way), falls into that second category.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Okay, they did not throw to his side that often towards the end, thats true. But the 5 interceptions is nothing to write home about. My point is, he was a great corner. And he did not have to have 7-10 interceptions to be considered great.

One more thing about Cromartie. He had 10 intercetions two seasons ago. But he only had 2 last year. And no, people did not stop throwing to him. I watched him last year and he was just not the same corner he was two years ago. Does that mean he is terrible all of a sudden, NO. He just had a down year.

Posted by: bstroma1 | March 23, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

"The fact that you're pointing to ONE specific instance says it all.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who"

Yep, this is about as equivalent as a Cardinals fan pointing at Warner as the reason for losing the Super Bowl because he threw the James Harrison INT.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I really think that the 13th spot is a good play to trade down. IF Freeman's stock contiues to rise or Stafford is still on the board then we could trade down. As long as we are smart with the picks collected it's the thing to do.

Posted by: Hail2theChief | March 23, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Sports_Guru:Sports Insight::Bernie Madoff:Successful Investing

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 9:58 AM |

Terrible analogy. Madoff never invested anything so we have no idea how he does at it. The $$$ went directly to his pocket - he made off with it, so to speak.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 23, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell will be the same QB, this year, that he has been for the last 4 years."

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

I agree. Expect another year of improvement in nearly every measurable category from completions to yards to completion percentage to TD/INT ratio to turnovers per pass play to rush yards to passer rating to win percentage and win total. So glad you pointed that out.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse


JohnDinhouston

'....Yeah, everyone's a freakin' expert on how the media should do their job...'

True.

And what do you mean we're all not experts, btw?

I know a lot about the kinds of things most folks don't want to know anything about.

And I'm not too proud to share the little I know in a loud and authoritative voice as time as a weekend alcoholic has taught me that that's the best form of communication known to man....that and blogging.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Fans who judge corners based on their 'hands', don't understand the position. Rodgers was AWESOME last year. Playing man coverage is about breaking up passes and good solid tackling. If the guy has good hands it's a bonus.

I think the FO has us in a good position this time with Campbell and Rodgers, the two most expensive positions, due to resign in a POSSIBLE cap free year.

Torrence, or Richardson would help the depth.

I brought up CB @ 13 as opposed to QB, and i said if they want to get CRAZY

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Mason had three catches against the Skins. 60 yds & 1 TD.

He was thrown to twice in the 1st qrt, catching one pass for 26 yds, tackled by Horton in what looked to be, zone coverage?

He had one incompletion in the second, covered by Rogers.

In the third, Mason was targeted once and Landry picked off the pass. Rogers was covering the flat.

In the fourth, Mason had has second and third catches of the day, one for six yrds (tackle by Flecther) and the other for 28 yrds (td), where Rogers was beat bu a double move, only after ELEVEN straight rushes!

JC17 to Randle El was the first TD allowed by the Ravens Defense in 47 opposition tries. That TD came from the Ravens 7yrd line.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

One play does not make or break a player.

Posted by: bstroma1 | March 23, 2009 11:55 AM

Sure it does...just ask 4th about Desmond Howard. :)

Posted by: 4-12 | March 23, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Moe - good point - I never thought about it that way - "I blog, therefore I am correct"

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 23, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

The fact that you're pointing to ONE specific instance says it all.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 11:51 AM

That's just the one that stands out in my head because it happened last year and we needed that game to the Nth degree.

You tend to remember stuff like that such as when he dropped that INT at Seattle and could've/would've/should've walked into the End Zone.

Play your best when your best is needed. He was a stud at 6-2, but starting slumming something bad at 2-6. Why do ou think he was the odd man out when Springs came back in?

He is only slightly better than David Terrele at this point in his carrer only because he is a solid tackler......

PSP - that's what I am saying, but there have been more than 4/5 CBs who have done that the past 30 years. (DGreen, Champ, Asomugha, Dion, Madison/And other MIA CB combo/Jamse Hasty/Charles Woodson/Rod Woodson/McCalister/McKenzie/Mathis.)

CR22 isn't on none of these players' level as of right now. And until he starts catching balls, he will be a liability in key times. Also, none of these players are known for their 'run support' except for maybe Hasty....

(I'm done)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

"Go take look at a 10 year sample size of INT leaders and you will see plenty of mediocre CBS....."

Happens to safeties too. I'm afraid it may happen to Chris Horton.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Me....sitting in 3rd place with the entire right side of mt bracket in play, and only Wake Forest as my big miss.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 23, 2009 10:06 AM


Yeah Yeah but you've got the wrong FF, wrong Finalists, and wrong winner.

U-N-C! Go Heels! Go!

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 23, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Drafting a QB with the #13 pick would be idiotic. If you're going to go after a QB, you might as well trade that pick for Cutler.

Posted by: dfbovey | March 23, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Sports_Guru:Sports Insight::Bernie Madoff:Successful Investing

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 9:58 AM |

Terrible analogy. Madoff never invested anything so we have no idea how he does at it. The $$$ went directly to his pocket - he made off with it, so to speak.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 23, 2009 12:05 PM

I see this went too fast for you, Anton. Let me try a different approach.

Imagine you invested $50 million through Bernie Madoff. And imagine that you got back zero. Now imagine whether you would call that "successful investing." If so, let me send you a prospectus for the talent_evaluator_fund.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Desmond Howard...seriously? yes he won MVP, but he is not considered a great player. Or even good for that matter. And NO, that MVP did not "make" him. I can throw out Larry Brown for the Cowboys and Dexter Jackson from the Bucs. Both MVPs who had their 15mins, but it never made them into a great player.

Posted by: bstroma1 | March 23, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

"And until he starts catching balls, he will be a liability in key times."

Wait, are you talking about a WR? This makes no sense. The only way for a CB to be a liability is if he gets beat too often and can't tackle. Neither of those apply to Los. I don't understand why people go after the better players on the team...why don't you attack Jansen instead?

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

4th,

Regarding Mason & Rogers:
In the fourth, Mason had his second and third catches of the day, one for six yrds (tackle by Flecther) and the other for 28 yrds (td), where Rogers was beat by a double move, only after ELEVEN straight running plays!

How can you hate on the dude for giving up that touchdown when our DLine couldn't stop the run for ELEVEN straight plays?

IMHO, Rogers is slightly better than 75% of the other corners in the league.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

"Is Requesting a New Beat Reporter the Way to Go?"

Lets see, almost 700 comments on a throwaway post during the offseason. Eflin over at the Times writes up actual news in a useful manner and can't get five people to read it.

I would think the beat writer's bosses probably think he is doing just fine with RI.

Posted by: will_ga | March 23, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell will be the same QB, this year, that he has been for the last 4 years."

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

I agree. Expect another year of improvement in nearly every measurable category from completions to yards to completion percentage to TD/INT ratio to turnovers per pass play to rush yards to passer rating to win percentage and win total. So glad you pointed that out.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 12:05 PM |

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And the same results we have seen the last 4 years... No playoffs.. and less points than the 0-16 Lions.

Oh wait, I am wrong, we did make the playoffs in 07..WHEN JASON SAT ON THE BENCH THE LAST FOUR GAMES OF THE SEASON AND TODD COLLINS WENT 4-0 WITH THE NUMBER ONE QB RATING IN DECEMBER 07 (BETER THAN TOM BRADY OVER THE SAME SPAN), AND WITH THE SAME OFFENSIVE LINE THAT JASON HAD!!!

Had to yell...bottom line...Collins should of played last year.. But, Snyder had too many unsold Jason Campbell jerseys in inventory....

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Rogers is a pretty good corner. Other than dropping INTs he had a very good season, especially when you factor in that he was recovering from serious injury. If you ask me, he's a better cover guy than Hall. Hall just has a nose for the ball and can catch it when it hits his hands.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 23, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Had to yell...bottom line...Collins should of played last year.. But, Snyder had too many unsold Jason Campbell jerseys in inventory....
Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 12:26 PM

Tell that to the unsold Collins jerseys!

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

There is no reason to consider a QB at 13, not this year anyway, if you want to trade for a known commodity like Cutler, I'm all for it, but JC has proven he's at least a decent QB, none of the QBs in this draft are even close to sure things even Stafford, so why waste the money create the controversy and the issues of draft a QB high when none are even close to a sure bet.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 23, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

I done (though wuold agree CR22 is in the top half, not neccessarily top 25%)

==========================================


Desmond Howard...seriously? yes he won MVP, but he is not considered a great player. Or even good for that matter. And NO, that MVP did not "make" him. I can throw out Larry Brown for the Cowboys and Dexter Jackson from the Bucs. Both MVPs who had their 15mins, but it never made them into a great player.

Posted by: bstroma1 | March 23, 2009 12:18 PM


Heisman? Check.
Top 5 pick? Check.
Lead LEague in PR yardage multiple years? Check.
Key player in playoff run leading to SB? Check.
Super Bowl Ring? Check.
SB MVP? Check.
Lead LEague in PR yardage multiple years? Check.

Can good or marginal players do these things above?

Now, the difference between DHoward and Brown, Timmy Smith, and Dexter Jackson is the were one hit wonders.

DJackson just got cut. LB had some mediocre years in Oakland. And Timmy like the white stuff too much.

The problem was, they should have never let him play on STs at all and have him focus solely on route running.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

...bottom line...Collins should of played last year...

Does anyone actually think Collins playing in Zorn's offense would be anywhere near as effective as he was in those four games in '07? Really, come on now, be honest.

Posted by: will_ga | March 23, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

LH - I heard it take 3 years for your hands to recover from a knee injury....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Strategy moving forward:

-Move Montgomery to end (assuming he signs his tender) with Wynn coming in as spot relief. Haynesworth can also play end so rotate him in there when a mismatch can be created.

-Heyer at right tackle. Trade down in the draft for 2 second round picks and pick up a lineman who can play center/guard.

-H.B. at strong side backer but draft a linebacker with one of the two second round picks.

-In the lower rounds pick up players at tackle, end and corner. If there's a sleeper QB out there, and I don't think there is, then grab him.

-Find a d-tackle in undrafted free agent pool that can be moved to offensive line as a developmental prospect. Anyone remmber Joe Jacoby?

-Find a freight train of a running back in the undrafted free agent pool. This would probably be a guy who might have played fullback in college but moonlights as a power lifter. Doesn't need blinding speed, but needs powerful legs that could drive the pile back a yard when needed.

-Find a burner who can play running back. I am thinking of a short squatty wide receiver in college who has speed. You want someone who has played receiver because this is a guy who may end up on the other end of a lot of passes. I believe this was the idea years ago behind Kenny Watson, but it didn't really pan out for Washington (he's still playing in Cincy, however).

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 23, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

"but there have been more than 4/5 CBs who have done that the past 30 years. (DGreen, Champ, Asomugha, Dion, Madison/And other MIA CB combo/Jamse Hasty/Charles Woodson/Rod Woodson/McCalister/McKenzie/Mathis.)"

Your list completely fell off the wagon after Deion (save Rod Woodson). None of the other guys compare. They're all in the same vein as Asante Samuel, Deangelo Hall, Ty Law, etc. In the correct system, these guys are allowed to be risk-takers because their scheme covers for them. But in the wrong system, like Law with the Jets or Hall with the Raiders, they are SEVERE liabilities. Both Hall and Law with their respective teams were tied for the NFL lead in interceptions, and both were squarely in the league lead for passes completed and yards given up. Yes, both were the WORST in the league with regards to giving up pass plays to QBs. Madison, Hasty, Mckenzie, Charles Woodson, and Mathis all fall in that same vein. Only Charles Woodson makes enough plays to consider making up for the fact that their pass defense is as porous as swiss cheese. Mcalister was close to becoming one, but he was too injury prone to ever establish himself fully. And he had a LOT of help coming from the pass rush.

4th, there's no possible way you're going to get me to agree with any of that. You're putting way to much stock into the "glory" statistics, and nowhere near enough to the little things that actually make a player. In a heartbeat, I would take Carlos Rogers over every player you listed other than the first 4 plus Rod Woodson. I wouldn't even think twice about it.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I kind of agree with Vickers about Rogers.

To be clear, it drives me out of my skull that he couldn't catch a cold in the rain, but if he's dropping balls that hit him in the chest, that means he is in position and the receiver has no play on it. I'll take that any day over being a step late and not making the play.

Posted by: edvar | March 23, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Bottom line is Collins should have been playing in 2005.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 23, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

"Find a freight train of a running back in the undrafted free agent pool. This would probably be a guy who might have played fullback in college but moonlights as a power lifter. Doesn't need blinding speed, but needs powerful legs that could drive the pile back a yard when needed"

- Javorsky Lane

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"To be clear, it drives me out of my skull that he couldn't catch a cold in the rain, but if he's dropping balls that hit him in the chest, that means he is in position and the receiver has no play on it. I'll take that any day over being a step late and not making the play.

Posted by: edvar"

edvar's got it.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

psp23, I thought you were going to stop arguing about how great Campbell is and let his play this season speak for him? He didn't really improve as much as you and others like to trumpet. He had one more TD but played in three more games, threw for only 500+ more yards with 3 more games and nearly 100 more pass attempts, his yards per completion decreased as did his yds per game. His rating reflects the fact that he had so few picks which further reflects that he threw a bunch of short passes.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 23, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

T_E,

I'm very interested in your investment plan. I'm in as long as I'm among the first 3 or 4 folks and you notify me when you get another 10 in... I'll be needing to make a substantial withdrawl - RIGHT THEN!!! lmao.

Oh - and thanks for aksing about the move. It went swimmingly. Me and the Cowboy Missus are now proud residents of 20901 - right accross from the new version of my old High School, Blair (go Blazers!)

It's good to be back. The snow the other week I could have done without! hehehe.

HAIL!

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 23, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

4th, no one disputes that he doesn't catch picks but by getting his hands on it he prevented a completion - either way mission accomplished. I don't think you can dispute that he's the best cover CB on the team right now.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 23, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I don't care about INTs. I am talking about the threat of actually being able to catch them, which leads to the QB not looking that way. (Please don't taint or mischaraterize my message)

And 'Wow'. Charles Woodson not elite even though he's done it with OAK and now with the Packers at an advanced age? And Ty Law did very well with the Jets again at 35 or whatever age he is. Madison? I'm not talking about NYG Madison. I'm talking about in his prime in MIA Madison (and his partner in crime whose name fails me). And you must not watch many JVille games. Mathis is The Truth...

But I am fine with agreeing to disagree. That is the quickest and only to end a disagreement up here....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

...bottom line...Collins should of played last year...

Does anyone actually think Collins playing in Zorn's offense would be anywhere near as effective as he was in those four games in '07? Really, come on now, be honest.

Posted by: will_ga | March 23, 2009 12:32 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Probably more so... He has 7 years experience in West Coast Offenses.
Zorn didnt make the personnel decisions last year..Vinny and Danny did..

Case in point is the cutting of Zorn's top pre-season receiver last year, Billy McMullen (actually number one WR in the NFL preseason). Cut after the last game..and the Seahawks snapped him up, no coincidence. Zorn closest friend is Holmgren. Remember what Derrick Frost said when he was cut.. that it wasnt Zorn and it had nothing to do with performance. It was all about Vinny's ego.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

redskinhead: "-Find a d-tackle in undrafted free agent pool that can be moved to offensive line as a developmental prospect. Anyone remmber Joe Jacoby?"

There you go. What could be simpler? I hope you're taking notes, Vinny and Zorn.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

no playoffs last 4 years, says skinsneedaGM. Fabulous insight, except for the 2 times we did make the playoffs In The last 4 years

Rodgers and Campbell are Great

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 23, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

4th's in the Tank current group:

* UM, including defending DHoward's record.
* DHall over CR22, whether it be covering or overall.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

SportsGuru,

Are you the Bagwan Shree Rajneesh? His insight and yours are astoundingly similar.

Posted by: LarryBud | March 23, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Heisman? Check.
Top 5 pick? Check.
Lead LEague in PR yardage multiple years? Check.
Key player in playoff run leading to SB? Check.
Super Bowl Ring? Check.
SB MVP? Check.
Lead LEague in PR yardage multiple years? Check.

This is the problem with stats....

Heisman, Check. Meaningless in the NFL, so who cares.

Top 5 pick. Check. Meaningless unless you deliver. NOBODY takes a punt returner as the 5th pick in the draft. Counts as proof against your argument, not for it.

Lead NFL in punt returns some times. Check. He was drafted as a high first round receiver, not punt returner. See comment above.

Key player in playoff run leading to SB? Check. Yup, he was able to string together a couple of good games. Agreed

Super Bowl Ring? Check. The assistant trainer got a ring too.

SB MVP? Check. For ONE (admittedly big) play.

This does not justify being picked 5th in the first round, nor does it justify a career. If he was an UDFA and did all this, he'd be a good story, but he wasn't, and he's not.

He was a disappointment, but was able to salvage a piece of his career by being talented at running back punts. Big deal.

Posted by: edvar | March 23, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

LH, I have stopped for the most part. Yet when I see someone say "Campbell will be the same QB he's been for the last 4 years," I have to call BS on that. We'll see how he does this year.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

(oops..ref McMullen meant cut after the last preseason game in 08)

...bottom line...Collins should of played last year...

Does anyone actually think Collins playing in Zorn's offense would be anywhere near as effective as he was in those four games in '07? Really, come on now, be honest.

Posted by: will_ga | March 23, 2009 12:32 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Probably more so... He has 7 years experience in West Coast Offenses.
Zorn didnt make the personnel decisions last year..Vinny and Danny did..

Case in point is the cutting of Zorn's top pre-season receiver last year, Billy McMullen (actually number one WR in the NFL preseason). Cut after the last preseason game in 08..and the Seahawks snapped him up, no coincidence. Zorn closest friend is Holmgren. Remember what Derrick Frost said when he was cut.. that it wasnt Zorn and it had nothing to do with performance. It was all about Vinny's ego.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

learnedhand: "He [Campbell] didn't really improve as much as you and others like to trumpet. He had one more TD but played in three more games, threw for only 500+ more yards with 3 more games and nearly 100 more pass attempts, his yards per completion decreased as did his yds per game. His rating reflects the fact that he had so few picks which further reflects that he threw a bunch of short passes."

Here's the flaw: QBs aren't measured in absolutely. All have strengths and weaknesses. Some show up in stats, some don't. But they can only be evaluated (meaningfully, at least) in the context of the other players at their position during the same season. You can adjust for strength of schedule if you like.

If you look at the QBs in the playoffs this past season, Campbell fits in the middle of the pack. Not the best, not the worst.

So the question that gets asked -- 'is Jason a playoff-quality QB?' -- should be answered: Sure he is.

QBs are not measure

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 23, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

From Profootballtalk

A league source tells us that Josh Freeman will be gone the time the Jets use their seventeenth pick overall. "All three quarterbacks will be gone by 15 if not sooner," the source said. "Freeman has exceptional talent," the source added.

Jets could be a possible trade partner.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 23, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

that should read: "Quarterbacks are not measured in absolutes." They have to be measured in terms of other QBs.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

LH, I have stopped for the most part. Yet when I see someone say "Campbell will be the same QB he's been for the last 4 years," I have to call BS on that. We'll see how he does this year.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 12:50 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So what has Campbell done the last 4 years?? Skins scored less points than the 0-16 Lions and finished in last place. The last 8 games of last year he was the worst inside the Red Zone. Look at his ratings..
Ummmmm... if he was improving each year.. dont you think the Skins would of opted for a Contract renewal or Extension. ??

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

skinsneedgm: "Case in point is the cutting of Zorn's top pre-season receiver last year, Billy McMullen (actually number one WR in the NFL preseason). Cut after the last game..and the Seahawks snapped him up, no coincidence. Zorn closest friend is Holmgren. Remember what Derrick Frost said when he was cut.. that it wasnt Zorn and it had nothing to do with performance. It was all about Vinny's ego."

Well, how come the other teams cut him? Was that just ego, too?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

learnedhand

'.....I thought you were going to stop arguing about how great Campbell is and let his play this season speak for him?'

The constant Campbell banging is as played as fade haircuts and Vanilla Ice records.

But if you want to remove Campbell, got some questions:

who replaces him?

what is the measuring stick that gets used to say he is worthy of re-signing or releasing?

is it better to bring in a capable vet now or next winter?

if Collins is under contract, do you get him on the field if the seasonseems to be sliding away?

do you re-sign Campbell if the skins don't make the playoffs?

do you re-sign Campbell if the team plays 'okay' but makes the playoffs?

wither Colt? describe a situation where he gets on the field?

Rememba: it's easy to knock Campbell, but how do you replace him?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

No on a QB at 13. Rebuild the O-line and Campbell will be all right. Draft a QB in the first round and you'll set the franchise back - what's the point of signing Haynesworth - if you're then going to go with a rookie QB

Posted by: skinswest | March 23, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Heisman? Check.
Top 5 pick? Check.
Lead LEague in PR yardage multiple years? Check.
Key player in playoff run leading to SB? Check.
Super Bowl Ring? Check.
SB MVP? Check.
Lead LEague in PR yardage multiple years? Check.

This is the problem with stats....

Heisman, Check. Meaningless in the NFL, so who cares.

Top 5 pick. Check. Meaningless unless you deliver. NOBODY takes a punt returner as the 5th pick in the draft. Counts as proof against your argument, not for it.

Lead NFL in punt returns some times. Check. He was drafted as a high first round receiver, not punt returner. See comment above.

Key player in playoff run leading to SB? Check. Yup, he was able to string together a couple of good games. Agreed

Super Bowl Ring? Check. The assistant trainer got a ring too.

SB MVP? Check. For ONE (admittedly big) play.

This does not justify being picked 5th in the first round, nor does it justify a career. If he was an UDFA and did all this, he'd be a good story, but he wasn't, and he's not.

He was a disappointment, but was able to salvage a piece of his career by being talented at running back punts. Big deal.

Edvar...Thank you! You took the words out of the mouth.

4th floor...You make it seem like we should give this guy a life time achievement award because he was a decent punt returner. He was drafted as a stud receiver, which he was not. HE WAS A BUST! This is not even questionable. The guy was a top 5 pick, Heisman award winner...and all he did was have a return for a touchdown in the super bowl.

Donte Hall did more than Desmond Howard ever did as a returner. And he was drafted in the 5th Round.

5th FREAKIN ROUND!!!!

Now that is someone you should be taking the time to support. Not Desmond Howard. That is so stupid. ANd you are one to be talking after calling Carlos Rogers a bust. What would you call Howard?

Just because the guy saved face by returning a few punts does not mean he was good at all.

Posted by: bstroma1 | March 23, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

4th, fine we'll agree to disagree. All I know is the Redskins blitzed more often than any team in the league in 3rd down situations, had ZERO pass rush from the defensive line or linebackers, played half the season without Springs, played half the season without Hall, faced Manning x2, Brees, Warner, Romo x2, Mcnabb x2, and Roethlisberger, and every one of them had one of their worst season outputs against the Redskins.

Rogers is the real deal. He already is great CB, bordering on elite status.

Posted by: psps23 | March 23, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Sports_Guru:Sports Insight::Bernie Madoff:Successful Investing

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 9:58 AM |

Terrible analogy. Madoff never invested anything so we have no idea how he does at it. The $$$ went directly to his pocket - he made off with it, so to speak.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 23, 2009 12:05 PM

I see this went too fast for you, Anton. Let me try a different approach.

Imagine you invested $50 million through Bernie Madoff. And imagine that you got back zero. Now imagine whether you would call that "successful investing." If so, let me send you a prospectus for the talent_evaluator_fund.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 23, 2009 12:18 PM |

Phew! Also, pee-yew! I can see you aren't going to ace your SATs. Analogy-wise it goes like this. Element1->Class1 as Element2->Class2. Element2=Bernie Madoff, Class2=Successful Investing. In your reply to my comment, you twisted the forker into Element2=Investing with Bernie Madoff, Class2=Successful Investing. Also, in order for the analogy to be logically cornsistent, Element1 and Element2 have to be tbe same generic thing. You can't have Element1 being a person (Sports Guru) and Element2 being an action (Investing with Bernie Madoff). My advice to you - if you intend to apply to Harvard, enroll in one of them classes they offer to hone one's SAT skills.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 23, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

The Skins CB depth doesn't have me panicked. Yes I'd like one more experienced VET CB (Bly, Bodden, or whomever), but there is ample time to acquire one, and there will be some available.

There's NO sense in rushing to sign someone before the draft.

As far as starting 3 CBs; I'm okay going in with Hall, Rogers, and Smoot.

In regards to Rogers VS Hall, it's a matter of two different styles.

Hall is the "sportscar" the INT guy who will either make the pick or be burned by the timing of his route jumping more often than anything else.

Rogers is the "SUV", he does the dirty work, he's not going to take one to the house, but can swat passes down all day.

NEITHER one is the full package with BOTH skill sets (like D. Green or C. Bailey in days of yore) but both are good at what they do.

If I had to take one and trade one; I'd keep Hall and trade Rogers, BUT only because he has the easier skill set to replace.

Draftwise, I'd beef up the LB and OL positions, address a VET CB and some DE help in free agency after the draft.

Sure if someone irresistable comes up at DE or CB I'd grab them, but I wouldn't make that the mission.

Posted by: ThinkingMan | March 23, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

No CB can be perfect, all the HOF CB's have had passes caught on them but like a few of you have mentioned the main job of a CB is to prevent the receiver from catching passes. Yes CR has hands of stone and cannot hold on to int's but he stepped up last year, did a good job defending passes, and also delivered some big hits, leave the guy alone!! As for JC lets get the OLine squared away and see what he does this year with some better pass blocking, more running lanes for CP or whoever, and maturity and improved play from Kelley, Thomas, and Davis.This sports guru or whoever, get real, lets see what Campbell does with a better supporting cast. This is Campbell's year to sh%t or get off the pot!! This is it, 2009, get it done or bye, it's that simple!

Posted by: 72Redskins | March 23, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

skinsneedgm: "Case in point is the cutting of Zorn's top pre-season receiver last year, Billy McMullen (actually number one WR in the NFL preseason). Cut after the last game..and the Seahawks snapped him up, no coincidence. Zorn closest friend is Holmgren. Remember what Derrick Frost said when he was cut.. that it wasnt Zorn and it had nothing to do with performance. It was all about Vinny's ego."

Well, how come the other teams cut him? Was that just ego, too?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 12:56 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I believe it was an injury, not performance related. .. chkd NFL.Com??
Even being out for most of last year (played only in 4 games) McMullen still exceeded Devin Thomas' who played in all 16 games (see NFL.Com). Vinny wanted his draftees to play. Not the best player.

Holmgren snapped him up because of Zorn's endorsement..

A better example of Zorn not being in charge and Vinny's interference, is the cutting of Derrick Frost, who had a very good year for the Packers. And who actually said it was Vinny..not Zorn who made the decision. Vinny wanted his picks to succeed in spite of the Team's success.. Thats called EGOTISM. And insecurity. Thats a big reason the Skins have done squat under Snyder and Vinny for the last 10 years.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

But if you want to remove Campbell, got some questions:

who replaces him?
____
This is why there is a training camp. Who ever is looks best should start. If Campbell starts regardless.. the best QB on the bench, Collins or Colt, goes if Campbell is not performing well during season.

what is the measuring stick that gets used to say he is worthy of re-signing or releasing?
____
Is he successful? Is he leading the team and scoring points? is the team winning?
How is he in the clutch? Leadership? decison making? etc etc.. Same thing EVERY TEAM looks at when they judge their QB.

is it better to bring in a capable vet now or next winter?
____
What's wrong with Collins? Last time he got to play he won 4 games in a row and had a 106 QB rating. So unless he bombs in camp.. A capable vet is not the problem right now.

if Collins is under contract, do you get him on the field if the seasonseems to be sliding away?
____
Of course, IF the view is Collins gives the team a better chance to win than Colt. Otherwise Colt should play. That is unless the season is already lost than Colt should play just to see how he looks and judge if he can the the starter next season.

do you re-sign Campbell if the skins don't make the playoffs?
____
Not unless he has great numbers, and of course if he does it's hard to imagine the Skins not making the playoffs.. Bottomline Campbell can't get the Skins into the playoffs time to send him packing...

do you re-sign Campbell if the team plays 'okay' but makes the playoffs?
___
I say no. If team wins IN SPITE of Campbell that is no reason to keep Campbell. Campbell is in his 5th season if all he can do is "ok".. Skins need to look for other option at QB.

wither Colt? describe a situation where he gets on the field?
______
Has great camp.. Campbell not showing improvement.. team losing some games they should win.. hand ball to Colt (unless see above Zorn thinks Colins gives Skins better chance to make playoffs)

Rememba: it's easy to knock Campbell, but how do you replace him?
____
Easy.. All Zorn has to say is... "Jason stay on the sidelines we're going to give Colt or Collins a shot and see how they can do...

Posted by: sovine08 | March 23, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone actually think Collins playing in Zorn's offense would be anywhere near as effective as he was in those four games in '07? Really, come on now, be honest.
____
Zorn offense was made for Matt Hasselbeck, a 6'4" immoble QB, without a cannon arm but smart, accurate and make quick decisions. Collins is a 6'4" immoble QB who doesn't have a cannon arm but is smart, accurate and make quick decisions.. It is not immpossble to believe Collins could excell in a system Hasselback excels in. Also not impossible to believe IF Collins came in the last 3 games of the season he could have beaten Cincy, scored the same 7 points and beat Philly and then beaten SF.. putting the Skins in the playoffs.. We will never know of course but we do know Campbell DIDN'T DO IT!!!!

Posted by: sovine08 | March 23, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Easy.. All Zorn has to say is... "Jason stay on the sidelines we're going to give Colt or Collins a shot and see how they can do...

Posted by: sovine08 | March 23, 2009 1:43 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

you think Zorn will have that say, "lets give Colt or Collins a shot"?

The last 8 games of last year the Skins went 2-6. So, Zorn had 6 games where the Skins were losing and 4 of those were "must wins" to compete in the playoffs..
Considering the success Collins showed in 07 stepping in and getting Skins into the Playoffs...why didnt Zorn put him into one of those 6 losses in the last 8 games??

Campbell will be the starter no matter how badly he plays. Collins or Colt will ride the bench no matter how well they play (unless Campbell is injured ala 07 and Collins went on his infamous 4-0 streak).

The most important strategy for opposing Defenses last year was to KEEP Campbell in the game.. Dont injure him. And let him get to the Red Zone where is stats are abysmal and he could be picked off.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

I believe it was Madden?? During 07 when Collins was the talk of league, a commentator mentioned how, with a poor OL (3 seconds at most) Collins was still making his progressions to 4 "Reads". Jason is known for only reaching his 2nd Read within a 3 second drop back. This is why he has evolved into a short yardage pass QB (no time for WR separation). And it is also why he is destroyed inside the red zone...ie. 2 Reads in a compressed defensive back field which can now rush former "drop back Line backers" (because its a short field). Which reduces JC's drop back to less than 3 seconds and results in 1 Read and a forced play...ergo his terrible red zone stats.
JC hasnt improved in this area in 4 years and never will. And the opposing D coordinators know it.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 23, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

If they sit at 13 I can see Cushing of USC being the pick, or maybe DE English of N. Illinois. I don't see them taking an OT in the 1st round unless they trade down or one of the top 3 slips. If they trade down then OT comes into the picture.

I like a Cushing pick because they don't have a starter at SLB and there are no starters out there in FA. He has good speed, quickness, and coverage skills, something they need with their SLB. Draft him and cross your fingers he can start.

Posted by: sysadb420 | March 23, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I don't think their looking to draft a QB. If Campbell fails this year, they'll go get a veteran for 2010. They do need to do their due diligence however, so there is no harm in working Sanchez or Freeman out. Heck, you might even convince a team below you that your considering taking a QB and increase the trade value of the 13th pick

Posted by: jkp7 | March 23, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Should we draft a qb with 13, i think no.

But it is absurd to say that there aren't worthwhile prospects in the first round. The top 3 qbs are all potential franchise qbs. There is never a guarantee that someone will succeed.

Posted by: offbyone | March 23, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

I've lost a lot of respect for some frequent posters today. I cannot believe anyone thinks that JC's body of work is substantial enough to write him off. Preposterous. The guy's been in 5 offenses in as many years, had a bottom third offensive line and one legit WR this year, and still had a QB rating of 84, which is average to slightly above avg.

The idea that we should take a QB at 13 and neglect the glaring hole at RT and DE is a joke. I'm usually more tolerant of divergent opinion but this is, IMO, such a fundamental error in judgement consistent with this FO's track record of late. Just say NO to a QB and give JC some continuity of operations and acceptable personnel before you chuck him under the bus.

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | March 23, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

#17 $$%100%$$;

Posted by: BMACattack | March 24, 2009 5:01 AM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company