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Draft Review

Anyone who tries to tell you they can judge a draft immediately is full on bunk. It'll be a couple of years - or at least one - before we can really start to see who hits home runs and who struck out. But, once again, the Redskins raised eyebrows around the league with their approach. Maybe they'll end up being brave iconoclasts - smarter than everyone else; defying conventional wisdom - but here's an examination of why they are being questioned for taking three pass catchers with their top three picks at a time when even they admit there are also pressing needs at OT, DT, DE, C/G, S, CB, OLB, FB, QB.

Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder established the idea that they needed help at wide receiver, above all else, before they had a coach, or an offensive system, or anything. They were talking with coaching candidates about the need to get Chad Johnson when interviewing coaches in January, according to numerous sources with knowledge of those conversations, making it abundantly clear that was where they would be making big moves. This was the direction of the franchise, clear to all in this building, and it played out as expected offering multiple first round picks to the Bengals and chasing Chad right up until the draft, and, ultimately, taking Devin Thomas, Fred Davis and Malcom Kelly within the span of 16 picks in the second round.

The Redskins made it obvious that, as it became clear they would not get Johnson or Anquan Boldin, wide receiver was a focal point. Snyder watched the private workouts of players at the top of the board. Even as the rest of the league was talking about all receivers sliding out of the first round, and this draft lacking a legit stud candidate at WR, the Redskins were devoting more and more attention to receivers.

Inside the building, coaches were fretting that upper management was pushing grades higher on players like Malcolm Kelly, inflating their worth as the draft approaches, while Kelly was dropping down other boards. Teams I spoke to before the draft had him rated in the lower half of the second round, and no one seems shocked he was still on the board at 51. The Redskins kept coming up with high grades on this slumping receiver class, thus ensuring a self-fulfilling prophecy: If you simply follow the board, and the draft plays out as expected, and you sit there with a bunch of second round picks, of course you're going to have wide receivers "sticking out like a sore thumb."

If the deck is stacked towards receivers, and that's what the owner is most enamored with - those are the players he keeps swinging and missing on in the trade front - well, how do you think the draft going to unfold? And, if you feel like you have to take multiple receivers in the draft, you could get a player they had rated highly, like Arman Shields out of Richmond, at the end of the 4th round (he went one pick after Washington's 4th round selection, at 125 overall).

Just look at the recent history at this position - the blockbuster trade of WR Moss for WR Coles, then making David Patten a key free agent in 2005, then giving $10-million guaranteed to Randle El and Lloyd in 2006, then watching the owner covet receivers like Edwards and Calvin Johnson and Ted Ginn in the draft, then watching him chasing Johnson and Boldin in 2008 ....

That's an amazing amount of time and resources sunk into one position group. Again, all play dependent positions - if the line and the QB and the running game aren't right, your stable of receivers ain't going to be doing much, no matter how good they are. Cerrato spoke as if defensive coordinator Greg Blache was doing cartwheels over the selection of three pass catchers on Saturday, and maybe he was. But I can assure you that some other coaches were scratching their heads.

No team can go four wide receivers and two tight ends all the time. Just can't be done. Unless they plan on running a whole lot of empty backfield, it's going to be tricky utilizing all of these guys and the existing one. Yes, they certainly have great depth at pass catcher now, but at the expense of how much else?

And, frankly, how much can this new staff - there are only three holdovers on the offensive side of the coaching staff - know about how these players fit into the system, having never seen them in it? With the Redskins hiring a new coach, they could have utilized an extra mini camp as awarded to them by the league. They could have had 21 practices total in the spring, with teams not hiring new coaches able to have just 18, but the Skins said no thanks.

When Joe Gibbs was hired in 2004, he wisely used that first mini camp in March, before the draft, to get some film on his own players running his system prior to the draft, to get a better exact feel for needs. The Redskins went gung ho on receivers this time without bothering to use pre-draft mini camp. Zorn has said he does not want to tax the players too heavily, with the Redskins opening camp early due to playing in the Hall of Fame Game in July, but the Skins played that Hall of Fame game in 2004 as well and opened early and Gibbs was anything but a taskmaster, yet still used both mandatory mini camps available to him in 2004. Just food for thought.

And the fact that taking 32 days to hire a coach seems to loom a little larger now. Zorn has been pulled in a million directions getting that late start as a rookie head coach in February, working essentially as QB coach, offensive coordinator (in terms of setting the system, devising a playbook, etc) and head coach. He had to go the combine, prepare for free agency, learn his players, teach the system to the other coaches (with help from Sherman Smith and Stump Mitchell), get a playbook together, learn the rest of the league, set a scheduled.

All of a sudden it adds up to Zorn admitting he was crunched for time putting everything together and still trying to meet with the QBs at 11 am during the week, and the Redskins will be issuing a stripped down playbook before next week's mini camp, gradually integrating it. Even the two weeks between when Zorn was hired as coordinator, then again as head coach, could have helped now and given him more of a buffer to work on the playbook or anything else.

As for the draft, it will be interesting to see in years to come how these pass catchers fare compared to other players who were still on the board at pick 21 and later. Numerous teams had first-round grades on CB Mike Jenkins (with him playing Dallas it'll be easy to follow his career, for better or worse) and S Tyrell Johnson, who no doubt could have helped here. I'll keep an eye on the career of C Mike Pollak as well, a player the Skins were high on. He went to the Colts at pick 59.

The Redskins claim that their rating on Kelly was so high at 51, that he stood out to such a degree, that it was the most obvious thing ever. Now, the Colts front office is about as good as it gets. They already have a stud Pro Bowl C, Jeff Saturday, but he's aging, and their best WR, Marvin Harrison might be done. The Skins have a great center, Casey Rabach, but their entire line is on the wrong side of 30 and they have nothing close to a proven back-up center on the roster.

Maybe the Colts reached on Pollak, and no team is close to perfect, no one hits on all their picks and to expect any team to is crazy. Maybe time will tell that the Colts blew it, and Davis and Kelly are two of the best players to come out of his second round.

But to me you look to fortify your trenches when you can, and especially if it's needed to the extent it is in Washington. The Redskins ended up taking a lineman with the 96th pick, guard/tackle Chad Rinehart of Northern Iowa, but it's hard to believe that between the 36-51st picks of this very deep draft that taking all pass catchers was the best course of action from a team-building standpoint. They did not address the D Line until the draft was almost over, with a 7th round comp pick. You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft.

The Redskins might become the beasts of the NFC East. This might prove to be the draft that catapults the franchise forward. I give them all the credit in the world for pulling off the trades to move down and stacking assets and being proactive in that manner.

But if the first-day gamble does not work, then those moves in the second round could be long remember as well, for very different reasons.

By Jason La Canfora  |  April 28, 2008; 8:21 AM ET
 
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Comments

Worst

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

jlc
you still suck

Posted by: jonthefisherman | April 28, 2008 8:31 AM | Report abuse

more of the same from this gas bag
blah blah blah
you sound like a petulant child
allways looking to put a negative spin on EVERYTHING the skins do

you should just write about the ravens, redsux and all the crappy music you listen to

Posted by: jonthefisherman | April 28, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

"Anyone who tries to tell you they can judge a draft immediately is full on bunk. It'll be a couple of years - or at least one - before we can really start to see who hits home runs and who struck out." JLC listen to your own words regarding the draft, the coach and the team. Otherwise, you're full of "bunk."

Posted by: juan | April 28, 2008 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Okay, J Low. I'll take the opposite tack. You can't convince me that in the next few years, none of the receivers in this draft was worth a first round pick.

Posted by: Prodigal Son | April 28, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

jlc, you are unblievable

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

If you guys don't like Jason, stay the hell off the blog. He busts his ass getting information (not always 100% correct - but it never is in his line of work) and is very diligent about posting updates. Skins fans are very lucky to have him. Boo on all you naysayers - go elsewhere.

Posted by: No dicks please | April 28, 2008 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Kiper rated the skins draft a B+

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Kiper graded the 'Skins draft a B+, which was the 2nd highest grade of all teams (behind Chiefs, tied with Browns and Cowgirls).

Posted by: SCSkins | April 28, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse

no dicks please,

wipe the jlc brown stuff off your face

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Skins might have a top 5 offense this year thus making the defense better

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

I don't dislike JLC. I just disagree with his assessment. Why draft a defensive lineman/offensive lineman if they aren't any better than what you already have? There is little doubt that they got two receivers and a punter who are better than what they already have. Which two linemen could they have gotten who are demonstrably better than or could replace two of their linemen in the next couple years?

Posted by: Prodigal Son | April 28, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Maybe the Skins don't go with 4 wides, 2 tight end sets, but when is the last time Moss and ARE were both healthy for the entire season in the same year? Those guys are always banged up, so I don't blame the Skins at all for taking receivers/tight end with their second round picks. Even if they don't play much this year, we should be set at those two positions for the next few years. Next year, we can address more attention to the DL and OL.

Posted by: Chris | April 28, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Just some round up of reviews by other sources.

Kiper - Skins B+
USA Today - Skins B
SI - after the Kelley pick "The Redskins continue their terrific draft by picking up another prospect that carried a first round grade for most of the season."

I've been backing JLC a lot, but the doom and gloom is getting old.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Jlc you are indeed allowed to lookt at the glass half empty. I will look at it half full. All during the draft, the analyst rave about how the best teams stick with THEIR board, and therefore at times draft for the future. It has become popular to mention that it takes a WR about 3 years to become the player they are projected to be. If that is the case, 3 years from now both Moss and ARE will be over 30. Cooley will be near 30 and commanding a larger part of the cap. Picking these pass catchers allow the skins to have 3 young players to grow and develop with Campbell. 3 years from now when this draft can be fully appreciated, I hope the faith the skins have placed on their scouting proves correct and Thomas, Davis, Kelly will be the pass catching core of Zorns W2W offense.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 28, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Folks, there is no rational way one can be thrilled with what the Skins did. If they had drafted three d-lineman or o-lineman, that same excess would be different because of the number of positions at those spots.

Look at the best case scenario: Cooley stays at a pro Bowl level for the next 3+ years. Moss and Randle El remain effective starters. That would mean that the three rookie receivers could do no more than be role players.

One receiver, ok. Two, hmmm. but three??? JLC is right, the owner is obsessed with WR's (he also coveted Donte Stallworth in the draft) and finally got what he wanted.

Posted by: Ben | April 28, 2008 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Kiper gave the Redskins a B+.

Mel Kiper, who has dedicated his life to knowing the draft, and ALL things draft related, and is considered the FORE-MOST expert on things of a draft nature.

Had the Redskins taken Thomas at 21, people would have said they reached. Had they taken Merling at 21, people would have said how can they take a guy who didn't work out??

They were in a lose-lose situation with some people, which is why its nice to have the opinion of Kiper, as an outside source.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Jasno, I love you like a fat kid loves cake but, dude, take it easy. Most of the draft gurus are giving the skins a positive grade and I tend to agree. I'd like to have seen some more OL but keep in mind that while our starters are aging, we have Heyer, Alexander and now Rinehart as backups. that's 3 youngsters already in the mix.

With Santana's constant hamstring issues and Randle El's so-so productivity, WR depth is a need (At least until Mix ascends to Jerry Rice-like greatness). With Dallas and NY's loaded secondaries, we need to put as many stud receivers on the field as possible.

As you said, time will tell but right now the sky is not falling.

Posted by: etrod | April 28, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

It's amazing to see the article start off with a dislcaimer about how you can't predict drafts, and then JC proceeds to rip apart what amounts to a very solid draft by the Skins. So many statements in this post that are hypocritical or just plain wrong (in my opinion of course!).

1) Joe Gibbs held a pre-draft minicamp even though we had a HOF game in 2004...this statement was made as if it was a golden move. We finished 5-11 that year, right? Clearly it didn't help.

2) Getting WRs is horrible this early in the draft, simply because "no one else did it?" How many times have you blasted the Skins for getting WR free agents and wasting money? Now they go out and draft 2 of the top 3 WRs and somehow, it's a bad move? Moss is always injured, Randel El is sporadic at best (and sucks at punt returns)...WR was our most pressing need!! Our offense, which requires multiple weapons, now has WR weapons other than the oft-double teamed (and injured) Moss, and Randel El.

3) Why the obsession with defensive line? WR is much more in need. Carter is a beast and under 30. We have youth starting and contributing. Yeah, it'd be nice to have another beast DE, but there wasn't one available...certainly not at pick 51.

4) Obviously, offensive line depth is great, but we had a solid line last year that was scotch-taped together. Yeah, they're not all 25, but it's not as pressing a need to use a 2nd round pick on someone who will sit the bench for 2-3 years. BTW, the Northern Iowa lineman we got was ranked as the best lineman to come out of D-II in 15 years, based on some blocking % ranking system. So, we got a beast with a low pick.

5) The Colts have won 1 SB with the best skilled/student QB of all time in his 8 year career. Somehow that makes their front office God? Draft what you need, not what the Colts' front office thinks is good. BTW, the Colts have had several years of 2 pass-catching TEs, along with the Patriots. So, maybe Fred Davis isn't that bad a pick.

6) Why the b!tching about the playbook?Everyone raved about Saunders' 700 page playbook, which proved entirely ineffective. Who cares if the playbook is scaled down? It has nothing to do with Zorn's lack of credibility as a coach...it has to do with the fact that we're in a new offense and Zorn needs to see the basics of what this team can do. You don't throw the Bible at a new priest-to-be and say, "Memorize this by July and you're in." Start with the basics!

7) No, my name is not Dan Snyder, Vinny Cerato or anyone employed/associated with the Skins! Just a diehard fan (who admittidly may have too much Kool-Aid in his blood) who is happy with our draft and is looking forward to an offense that uses our skill players by giving them the ball and doesn't try to outsmart opponents by picking imaginary spots on the field where no defender will be.

At least we don't have the play the NFC East on the road in the first month of the season. Oh, wait...

Posted by: Section 104 | April 28, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Both Bozwell and Jason appear to make a stong case that some linemen (both offensive and defensive)picked higher than they were eventually would have been useful. Also, the Redskins dodged a Danny bullet by failing to obtain Johnson.

Posted by: A Hardwick | April 28, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

REPOST

I'm looking forward to the Skins/Iggles game this year. You'll line up 8 WRs, we'll line up 6 undersized DEs, and we'll see how things go. Maybe the teams are planning some sort of player swap; we could use a WR or two and maybe one of our tweeners could end up as a stopgap OL for you.

As an outsider, I'm ambivalent about the Skins 2008 draft.

Good

I would have picked Limas Sweed over Malcolm Kelley, but if both picks turn out to be successful, not only would these 2 WRs fill an immediate need, they could also be the transition from Santana Moss/ARE to the next generation of Skins WR. OL pickup was also good because it definitely fills a need and if one (or more) of the 3 DBs sticks with the team, that's a good thing as well

Indifferent

The punter pickup may prove to be a really good choice, but I would have gone for another OL or tried to deal this pick and the Brennan pick for a higher selection in hopes Joe Bugel could coach up a prospect.

Odd/Bad

I don't understand the Fred Davis pick. Skins just paid Chris Cooley a ton of $s, Todd Yoder (and Glen Koslowski) seem to be capable backups, and Mike Sellers (remember him?) could even fill in a bit here. Even if Fred Davis turns out to be a great player, short of a trade, I don't see how this significantly helps the Skins

Guess we'll see how things play out in 2008/2009

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:40 AM

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

The West Coast Offense requires 2 TE sets, and the 'Skins made an upgrade from Yoder.

We can assume that only 1 of the 2 WRs will pan out to be a starter. The other is trade bait.

They got a stud punter, a versatile O-lineman, a nickel back, two hard-hitting safeties who will play special teams, and a competent 3rd-string QB.

Compare that to previous drafts. Instead of comparing this draft to previous drafts, JLC complains how the draft could have been better.

Posted by: SCSkins | April 28, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

i was very surprised at the receiver picks in the second round, but considering the health we've had at the receiver position for the past couple years, i'm fine with them picking up 2 guys. you might as well get good depth at one position if you can. lord knows, we haven't had much for any other ones.. ;p

Posted by: hmmmmm | April 28, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Get'm jlc. Getting rid of the #1 for extra #2's... I agree to give My Cousin Vinny his due for that one. But to make your first three picks pass catchers? c'mon now...I couldn't agree more with jlc.

Not enough footballs for:
Moss
Randle El
Cooley
Portis
Betts
White
Davis and Kelly

Here's what I wanna know,,, if Duane Brown was available, would they have taken him over Davis... or even White?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Redskins | K. Mitchell signs with team
Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:59:35 -0700

Josh Buchanan, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports the Washington Redskins have signed undrafted rookie free-agent S Kevin T. Mitchell (University of Illinois). Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

This guy is only saying that we didn't address major needs we have to fill, and he's right. regardless of how kiper rates our draft, we still didn't address what we needed to. Who cares if mel kiper rates your draft a B+ if we still have no d-lineman to contend in our ever improving division? Right now we have 6 WR's making big money and 2 tight tends, unless cooley moves to more of a FB roll. the move to trade down was brilliant, the picks we made considering our roster were not. the 6'7 DE from miami was available and we completely whiffed.

Posted by: skinsfan | April 28, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

More god awful stuff from Jasno.

The Post's Skins coverage is a joke.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

For the record, I'm happy with the picks that were made for the OL. The cat from Northern Iowa, and this Kerry Brown, from Appalachian State.

I think Rinehart can slide in at G, right now.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

For the last few years all you've heard is not enough weapons, to easy to shut down, etc. etc. Now they FINALLY get more weapons and still there is blind bashing. Utterly pathetic that a reporter and a paper can't act like grown ups. F--king joke!!

Posted by: I'm still pissed Dan is taller than me | April 28, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

The bottom line is this: in the draft, do you go for value or need?

Why do you reach down and select a DE projected in the 3rd round when you can get a first-round quality TE?

The draft is not the only way to fill needs.

Posted by: SCSkins | April 28, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Even if Fred Davis turns out to be a great player, short of a trade, I don't see how this significantly helps the Skins

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:40 AM

Doesn't it allow Jim Zorn to draw up plays that he never could have without two legitimate tight ends? Doesn't it create some Red Zone nightmares for a defensive coach?

Posted by: Repost response to a Repost | April 28, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

This guy is always whining about something. I'm sorry and what team did Jason work for? Go cover the ravens

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

I think no matter what gets posted here, there will be a lot of complaining.

Pathetic.

We are FANS, and like it or not, we don't know as much as we think we know.

Personally, I'm pretty darn happy with this draft.

All you whiners need to get a life.

Posted by: supadupa | April 28, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Receivers are reknowed for not reaching their full potential until their third year of pro ball. What's Santana's and ARE's age and contract looking like in three years? If you ask me, it looks like their phasing out the dwarfs for more west coast offense-friendly players. Could the front office be taking a page out of Stan Kasten's "plan"?

New coach, new system. When has that ever worked for us in the first year? I'm sensing a couple of rebuilding years for a team fresh out of the playoffs.

Posted by: outside the box | April 28, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Adam, lets say for example a team like the Patriots drafted a TE with first round pick in 2 out of 3 years, even using a first and a third to move up to select the particular TE that they were targeting, would that get questioned?

If Cooley goes down, then all the Redskins would have had would be Yoder, and Koz. Which would essentially eliminate using the tight end in this offense.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Yahoo sports:

Washington Redskins
Picks: WR Devin Thomas, TE Fred Davis, WR Malcolm Kelly, OL Chad Rinehart, DB Justin Tryon, P Durant Brooks, DB Kareem Moore, QB Colt Brennan, DL Rob Jackson, DB Chris Horton
Positives: Thomas, Davis, Kelly, Brooks
Negative: Defensive end not addressed until the seventh round.
Bottom line:A. Ten overall picks with lots of potential from top to bottom. The two wideouts slipped a little and could all end up providing great value. Thomas and Kelly could develop into quality big targets, and an AFC scout told Yahoo! Sports in February that Davis was the best overall talent at tight end in this draft. The punter need was addressed with the best one the college game had to offer in Brooks. Brennan is an intriguing pick late in the sixth round. A lot of potential starters in this draft.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

I agree with the concerns along the lines but the skins offense has not looked explosive in a long long time and I love moss but he hasnt had a good season since 05; so despite the hate i like what they did in the draft. They needed depth at WR there and they got it. Hate or like time will tell...

Posted by: peter | April 28, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

The only way to draft successfully is to draft good players.

I think Baltimore raised more eyebrows than the Skins for taking a 1-AA QB who operated in a modified-spread offense with the expectation that he'll be the starter as soon as this year.

This year's draft was very weak on immediate starters. The Skins were not going to find a 2008 starter at #21 or anywhere else. So they smartly drafted the best players on their board throughout the draft.

And taking two WRs in the second round was genius -- the trade out of 21 (where they may have taken a WR anyhow) allowed them to get a two-fer at a position notorious for being difficult to scout. Any draft move that increases the team's chances of finding a quality player is a win in my book.

They also added a big, fast TE that can take pressure off Cooley in the red-zone (how soon we forget that our only effective red-zone play last year was Cooley on an 8-yard option hitch); depth to the OL with a corn-fed ultra-versatile man-imal; added speed to the secondary with a DB who will compete for the nickle-back and be Smooty's man-crush; added much needed competition to the punter position ("Frosty - shanking punts since 2006"); and added competition for the special teams spots (buh-buy James Thrash). All in all, a very good job.

So they weren't able to address the DL. Nobody expected them to address every single position of need. But they still have options there -- undrafted FA, roster cuts, trade.

JLC -- stop masking the hating as "giving you the facts."

Posted by: CMoney | April 28, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

This blog is a great example of why JLC's coverage of the Skins is such a laughingstock. I'm glad there are some Debbie Downer's out there who get off on it, but the rest of us Redskins fans would be happier if JLC came out of the closet and simply began covering the Ravens. What a joke.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

As a somewhat outsider I would say that the draft was pretty good for Redskins, perhaps dramatically more so in contrast to past years (see this depressing view from last year for example).

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=2854030

I think that the questions Jasno raises are real ones, but perhaps you guys are reacting more to his somewhat embittered tone than the facts at hand. I would have said 1 receiver was plenty, and I don't think a 2nd receiver that doesn't crack the starting line up is very compelling 'trade bait' as SC puts it. The lines are getting weaker and older in an era where pass rush appears to be getting more important (having or stopping), but as some have said it may not be at the panic stage there quite yet and there are other avenues to find players.

I think it is good that the Redskins have taken a somewhat contrarian approach. Time will tell of course.

So my take would be pretty good overall, a somewhat odd portfolio of players, but if they have scouted well they will at least add some depth in a couple key places and get 2 starters, or maybe 3 with punter.

Posted by: zornskins | April 28, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

I agree with JLC on some things. Some things I dont. I think for one thing the stud of the draft might be Chad Rinehart. and much needed. As for the wide recievers and TE. Thomas is a good pick, Kelly good pick, Davis concerns me. And not because hes not good , oh hes good , maybe great, but not needed by this team. A team does not need 2 good or great TE. That means a lot of money spent at TE. When we need a lot of money spent at both lines. Colt Brennen thats a...ah..aa.aa I dont know, WOW! He cant even play in mini camp, hes injured. Are they gonna pay before they see him hit the field? Good luck with this class of picks . I think as far as players I rate this draft B+, as far as need D+.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Even if Fred Davis turns out to be a great player, short of a trade, I don't see how this significantly helps the Skins

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:40 AM

Doesn't it allow Jim Zorn to draw up plays that he never could have without two legitimate tight ends? Doesn't it create some Red Zone nightmares for a defensive coach?

Posted by: Repost response to a Repost | April 28, 2008 9:13 AM

Except that Todd Yoder is a legit NFL TE. Fred Davis may turn out to be better (he also might not, by the way), but finding/grooming a replacement for Phillip Daniels (who everyone acknowledges is on his last legs) or getting another OL to feed into an aging OL corps make more sense to me.

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Being deep at WR could be good not just because you have depth. Zorn could shuffle guys in and out to keep guys fresh and make the game a real track meet. The league has already figured out that using two running backs is a good idea, why not multiple WRs and TEs?

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

JLC,

You have got to stop this. Go cover another team or sport. You clearly have an agenda against the front office because they have not retained some of your favorite sources on the roster or coaching staff. I understand having coaches and players that talk to you makes your job easier, but that has nothing to do with whether or not that person should stay with this organization. You can not separate the too. You take it personally. It is completely unprofessional. Please stop.

Posted by: Dude | April 28, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

JLC is a hater...it's getting old! go work for the ravens

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

After all we watched with our own eyes last year, these things we know.

A. The Redskins looked inept offensively in the passing game for a good part of the season. Because either Gibbs/Saunders couldnt figure it out or the players werent getting it done, or a little bit of both. We were so one dimensional, 3rd and 8, its going to Cooley, god help us if it was 3rd 15. Moss had issues catching balls, and Campbell had issues throwing low balls. For whatever reason, Collins came in and was able to resurrect the passing game, until the Seahawk game.

I believe the problem was both the coaching and the smallish receivers. I love Moss and Randle El, but I'd love them more if they were 6'2".

If Campbell is your QB, which he is, and Zorn is your coach, which he is, and the WCO is what you are running,which it is, you better have big receivers and 2 capable TE's to do thy bidding.

The first day of the draft, was a resounding A+. You basically got all the tools necessary for Zorn to succeed. Snyder and Cerrato had to protect their decision on Zorn, how do you do that? Get him his players to make the WCO run. He has them all. There is no reason why we can't have a top 5-10 offense next year.

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

"Snyder watched the private workouts of players at the top of the board." - the MOST damning sentence in the entire post.

Snyder considers the Redskins his own private fantasy football team and you morons are supporting him and his decisions? My god.

Posted by: JLa is King | April 28, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Just look at what parcels did with the dolphins.. mostly all OL, DE's and DT's.. this team needs youth and guys who can pressure on the DL desperately.. they've needed this for years now and keep ignoring it.. they may have picked up some nice players in this draft that will help JC and the offense, which is good... but the players they wanted always got picked right before they came up and forced them to yet drop again and pick for value.. i think they should have stayed put, picked merling (parcel picked him!).. got their receiver with # 2 and OL (whick they did) with pic 3.. it was nice they traded down, but it didn't pan out like they thought it would.. they should go get jason taylor now..

Posted by: whiner | April 28, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Here's what I wanna know,,, if Duane Brown was available, would they have taken him over Davis... or even White?

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 9:00 AM

Mystery poster...you are an idiot. Everything you said is completely undermined by the fact that we didn't draft anyone named White. We drafted a Thomas. But hey, small details right. You are dumb. Go away.

Posted by: Nathan | April 28, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

You know you make it sound like this team is heading for the first overall pick. I am firm believer in taking best availible and not reaching(falcons, jaguars, Lions) for a need. To be honest their are very few if any OL or DL who could have moved any of the starters out of the line up. The skins need depth in the secondary not starters and it looks to me like they got what they needed. Overall I like your articles but I disagree with you on this.

Posted by: Brandon | April 28, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

I am a die hard Redskin fan and I think JLC keeps it real. There nothing wrong with what he is saying. Its just hard to be a Redskin fan and know they screw up every year.

Posted by: Bill | April 28, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Except that Todd Yoder is a legit NFL TE

Adam,

36 catches, 4 touchdowns in 7 seasons, is Legit?? Really?

Yoder is a good blocker, and can catch the occasional pass. Lets not make him out to be something he is not.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Nothing will ever really change until the owner and front office become stable. JLC may be negative butr he's probably right. Let's hope he's wrong.

Posted by: Tony Austin | April 28, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

EVERY other media outlet is giving the Skins a A or B and praising them for the job they did. This short jealous little ---- still is nothing but doom and gloom!! Sad

Posted by: I suck as a journalist!! Bring on the other Jason | April 28, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

JLC may be negative butr he's probably right.

Really? Please quantify how he is probably right.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Did they announce the undrafted FA's the signed yet?

Posted by: etrod | April 28, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I thought this was a pretty helpful and informative post from JLC. I know he tends to play the same note a lot but I thought it was appropriate to ask if there had been some serious grade inflation at WR thanks to the Danny's obsession with it and Vinny's need to polish that apple.

That said, I think the draft was a breath of fresh air for this franchise. I love going for best player available, and I think if this weren't the first time the skins actually had more than 6 picks and the opportunity to do BPA we would be able to appreciate this draft a whole lot more. If you keep to this strategy you'll be fine in the long run.

I do believe football teams should be built from the lines back, but I don't mind the two WR move bc probably only one of them will wind up being any good. I'd love it to be both, but based on history that's not that likely. So by trading down we get 2 for the price of one more or less. As for the TE, I watched a lot of pac 10 games and he stands out in film as a dominant player. His workout stats aren't that impressive but he was a beast in games.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Adam, lets say for example a team like the Patriots drafted a TE with first round pick in 2 out of 3 years, even using a first and a third to move up to select the particular TE that they were targeting, would that get questioned?

If Cooley goes down, then all the Redskins would have had would be Yoder, and Koz. Which would essentially eliminate using the tight end in this offense.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:19 AM

Greg,

Don't follow the Pats very closely, but I'd wonder a bit about that, just as I'm wondering why the hell Phily keeps drafting undersized, pass rushing DEs even after it goes out in the free agent market and signs (wait for it...) an undersized, pass rushing DE to a sizable free agent contract.

While it would be great to have an All Pro backing up an All Pro, salary cap limitations make that a near impossibility. I'd have preferred Calais Campbell, Jeremy Zuttah (utility OL), or maybe even Mike Pollak (C).

Guess we'll see what happens...

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

RE: JLC covering the Ravens....um, no.

It's a good thing that JLC is not a 'Skins homer. Journalistic integrity requires that a beat reporter cannot be a fan of the team that he writes about.

Posted by: SCSkins | April 28, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

B. Outside of WR, I thought the biggest need was at DE and S. Although I wouldve liked to address DE, reaching for Calais and Groves wouldve been a mistake. Calais is lazy and took plenty of plays off, Groves took a step backwards from 2006/07. That said, they still need to address the DE position over the summer. Doughty is marginal at best, he needs to be our back-up not starter. Drafting Tyron will help the secondary and maybe he can surprise us all and start at corner, allowing Springs to move to SS, while the lower rated S we drafted gain more experience. And when Rogers comes back, we will be that much better.

The offensive line was hurt last year, but we have to catch some breaks. Jansen, if nothing else has to be fresh. Thomas should be fine too. The left side is good and Rabach is solid. We drafted a big guy who has some versatility.

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

whiner,
Jason Taylor is 33 years old. Dolphins said they want a 1st round pick for him. No Way!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

JLC is right - I didn't really like this draft. 1 WR in the second round was probably a decent choice, but we really needed a stud defensive lineman of some sort, and that basically got ignored. The Danny and his whipping boy just don't understand the value of the guys in the trenches. Those two are all flash and no substance, and anyone who thinks The Danny knows anything more about pro football than the rest of us amateurs is fooling themselves. He never even played high school football, for goodness sake.

The TE from USC is a good player, but considering we are set at starter, it seems like a reach given how badly the team needs to develop the next crop of starting O and D linemen.

The punter in the sixth round round was a little strange. When can teams not find a decent punter via free agency, and didn't we just resign Derrick Frost?

We now have way too many "pass catchers", and I guess Anthony Mix isn't going to get his chance after all.

Oh, well, maybe The Danny will sell the team. We can dream, can't we?

Posted by: 'Skins Fan | April 28, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

36 catches, 4 touchdowns in 7 seasons, is Legit?? Really?

Yoder is a good blocker, and can catch the occasional pass. Lets not make him out to be something he is not.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:28 AM

He's a legit, backup NFL TE. That's all I'm saying. Could you do better? Probably. Do you have more pressing needs elsewhere? Most everyone here thinks so.

Adam

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

If the Skins had taken Calais Campbell or Quentin Groves instead of Fred Davis, I think this whole draft would be viewed differently and most Skins fans would be panning it as the best draft in years. Still, I think this was a good but not great draft for the Skins.

Posted by: SkinsFanInJax | April 28, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

'Skins deserve major kudos for grabbing that punter. Frost averaged 41 yards last year and was 32nd in the league. The new dude averaged 45+ and would have been around 8th in the league.

There are an average of six punts per game, so this is a pickup of 24 yards per game.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Adam, If Cooley went down with an injury, that would basically eliminate the TE from the offence. Not to mention that the WC Offense utilizes 2 tight ends. It doesn't do much good to have a offense needing 2 TE's, and only having one guy who can be an asset.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

While it was odd to have Vinny go all Matt Millen on us in the 2nd round with all the WR/TE picks, it was still a sound strategy. Yes we need OL depth, but we're also returning all 5 starters. We have Heyer, the kid we drafted in the 3rd round, plus we always pluck one or two from the undrafted free agent/June 1 cut pile. On defense, I still don't see the dire circumstances that JLC seems to push. We got 20+ sacks from the DE last year, we seem to have decent depth at LB and at safety Doughty seems solid enough to get us thru 16 games.

I'm a JLC fan, love that he keeps us posted (no pun intended) year round and has a pretty good pulse of the team, but his tone has gotten increasingly bitter/negative since the coaching search.

Posted by: MIA in Miami | April 28, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

DE C. Wilson is the wild card. He had 4 sacks in the last 2 games last year. Plus 1 in the playoffs.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

I'm also having a hard time listening to the "why get two WRs?!?!?!" crowd. The last time I checked the Redskins have been needing WR help since Monk and Clark left, save for a couple of nice seasons from Coles and later Moss. Moss has been an injury risk for most of his career and ARE showed that he's not that effective with Moss out of the lineup. And after Moss and ARE, they're best option (Mix) has like 3 catches in the NFL.

I'm always highly critical of the Redskins picks, but I thought they had an outstanding draft. Even if Davis was overkill, there was not a D-Lineman available there that would not have been a reach.

If you look at the needs coming into the draft:

1) WR Help
2) Pass rusher
3) Offensive Line depth
4) Secondary depth
5) Developmental QB
6) Someone to challenge Frost

they basically hit on each except one.

Be critical when needed. Don't be critical just to be critical. It's getting annoying and is pushing me away from reading.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Jason, while I was not thrilled that our first three picks were all offensive "weapons" and that we did not draft a DE until the bitter end, your negativity never STOPS. Mel Kiper and Ron Jaworski, who actually study players gave the Skins a "Thumbs Up" on this draft. Both picked the Skins as their "winners." So where do you get the crap about "raised eyebrows around the league"?

Posted by: Lisa | April 28, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

When can teams not find a decent punter via free agency, and didn't we just resign Derrick Frost?

Posted by: 'Skins Fan | April 28, 2008 9:36 AM

Derrick Frost is the type of punter you can get via free agency. If you want a good one, you need to draft him.

And, yes, we resigned Frost. To a one year contract with no bonus. And, by the way, no one else offered Frost a contract. He's at the bottom of the league.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

None of these receivers will be worth a dime if we don't have young offensive linemen to keep Jason Campbell or Colt Brennan upright over the next 3-4 years.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Everyone keeps talking about Defensive end....Why does nobody talk about Chris Wilson? He had 4 sacks last year in a very limited role!

Posted by: Uncle Spence | April 28, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

"If the deck is stacked towards receivers, and that's what the owner is most enamored with - those are the players he keeps swinging and missing on in the trade front - well, how do you think the draft going to unfold?"

That's why JLa correctly predicted the Skins picks. Oh wait...

Posted by: Smith | April 28, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Nothing will change until the Post staff comes to their senses and reasigns JLC to a job he is worthy of like covering dog racing in Tulsa.

It is amazing this dope still has a job. National media and draft experts are all on the side of this draft beeing good to very good and filling needs the skins had.

Oh wait...Danny was mean to Jason once so he needs to lead skins nation into thinking it was a terrible draft. We are tired of his agenda!

Posted by: Sec 126 | April 28, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

JLC,

You seem to be on the wrong side of the analysts with your rather negative assessment on this weekend's draft. The Skins draft has been largely lauded by the experts.

Your comments increasely seem anti-Redskin. Is this what we have to expect from the WashingtonPost? It's like you have a gripe against the organization. It's ironic that the only negative comments on the Redskins draft in the media this morning are coming from their beat reporter.

Most of us that read your column are fans. Which means we want to see the Redskins do well. We are not asking for a cheerleader. But give the team a break now and then. Why don't you report what the analysts are saying? It's largely positive.

Posted by: AshburnDave | April 28, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

For everyone whinning about the picks do you understand that we can not score points on offense, we had like two touchdowns from the WR position last year. I would have loved to get better on the D-Line, but if you can not score points it does not matter how good you D-Line is you will still loose. We have averaged like 16 points a game for the last 4 years so AS can take that 700 page playbook and shove it up his A$$. The defense ranked 8th last season not to shabby, we did not loose games last year because of Defense we lost because we could not score.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

It seems to me that, with 11 OL/DL picks in the first 20, the boat had already sailed on getting an immediate starter at OL/DL; there was a run on the bank at those positions... and you know who loses when you get to the bank late.
That's a stark contrast to last year, where only 7 OL/DL picks were made in the entire first round, along with 7 WR/TEs -- that's why there were so many WRs left at the beginning of the second round. And so, 11 of the 20 picks before the skins took Kelly were WR/TE.
I don't know these guys from Adam, and I would've liked to see a DL/OL/CB picked high. But I can see the logic of their picks, and that's about all you can ask for.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

So where do you get the crap about "raised eyebrows around the league"?

Posted by: Lisa | April 28, 2008 9:43 AM

Jasno, insider that he is, has a carefully cultivated group of Redskins haters "around the league" so that he can always attribute his hate to someone else.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

I gotta say that I'm warming up more and more to this draft. Like JLa, I would have loved at least 4 guys on both sides of the line, but this draft just didn't pan out like that. The run on T's in the first round was ridiculous and I think that a couple of teams really reached for a lineman. I think that this could actually be a draft for the future. As some have pointed out, our WR wasn't exactly striking fear into the hearts of anyone's secondary and a great #2 tight end will be great in the red-zone-a real weakness for us. Hopefully we can pick up some gem undrafted linemen that will be ready to go when our old guys give out in the next year or so.

Posted by: tmwilliams | April 28, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Brilliant work Jason! I could not have written it better myself.

Posted by: Pretentious Windbag Contrarian | April 28, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Can we give Jason Reid a blog as well so those of us who don't want to read negative nancy all the time have something. JLC is the most negative person about all things Redskins. I'd love to hear his analysis of the Ravens - I'm sure JLC thinks Flacco is the next Peyton Manning. Can we send him somewhere to cover girls lacross or something?

Posted by: CRitch | April 28, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

JLC - I have defended you a lot, and I think rightly so. You do a good job of reminding us fans of things we would like to forget. I find your theory of a "conspiracy" to rate receivers higher a little specious, but I can follow the dots that you lay out and see where you are coming from.

This is the first draft that we get to lay directly at VinnyDAN's feet. This is all on him/them, with no Coach Gibbs/Spurrier/Marty/Norv to blame. Zorn is VinnyDAN's creature, and even if he signed off on someone, they take the hit. Same with Blache.

I don't have much opinion about not taking OL and DL in the later rounds. A lot of the guys I wanted are undrafted, so not taking them with picks was vindicated. Most of the DEs in later rounds are like the guys we have, tweeners with pass rushing skills.

My thoughts (cause everyone really needs to know this) on the draft:

Devin Thomas (WR) - Great combination of need and value - no issues at all with the pick. I might have taken Jenkins at 21, but it was worth the gamble on losing Merling to trade down, and Thomas is real value at a real need at 34.

Fred Davis (TE) - seems like the value is there, but not the need. It was a depth pick, which is something you can defend when you are picking high. I don't love it, would not have made it, but can defend it. That said, we will have to follow the careers of some guys who had value here AND filled a need at OL, DT and DL.

Malcolm Kelly (WR) - The victory of value over need. It should mean that we won't have the same worries about Santana's hamstrings and ARE's limitations, and allow ARE to be more varied in his uses. I do think that depth at WR has been a bigger issue in recent years then JLC thinks, and while it is a dependent position, being able to plug a real receiver in when (not if) Moss goes down does benefit the QB and the running game.

Chad Rinehart (OG) - Love his size and the text on him. Definite need, can play two or three positions on the line. Can't argue with the pick. Need and, I hope, value.

Justin Tryon (CB) - Again, need and value. Not a perfect prospect, but who is at that point.

Durant Brooks (P) - Sigh. I don't like Frosty, but I don't like drafting kickers either. Clearly he was a value pick in terms of how he was rated and where he was picked, but would not have made the pick. The 2nd best punter in the draft was available as an UDFA, and this pick could have been used to develop a LB, CB, S, OL or DL, all of whom can make the team on the scout team or special teams.

Kareem Moore (S) - Need and value. Good pick.

Colt Brennan (QB) - Need yes. Value yes. Do I think it will work out? No. But it is the 6th round, a developmental pick for a developmental position. Don't love it, but not a huge problem for me. The 6th round is where you take fliers on QBs.

Rob Jackson (DE) - Need- YES, value, who knows. He seems like one of those tweeners that would have been available as an UDFA. At this point in the draft, why not.

Christopher Horton (S) - Need and Value - I like this kid a lot, although his bio reads a lot like Doughtery (sic). A safety can make the team on specials and develop. Decent size and is aggressive. Sounds like a guy who at least can make the team covering returns.

Would I have preferred them to take a more complete DE in the 2nd round rather than Kelly or Davis? Yes. But I am not quite as down on it as JLC.

Posted by: RedBee | April 28, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, that should be all I can ask for... you can clearly ask for something else entirely...

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Everyone keeps talking about Defensive end....Why does nobody talk about Chris Wilson? He had 4 sacks last year in a very limited role!

Posted by: Uncle Spence | April 28, 2008 9:43 AM

Looks like a great pass rusher, but at 245-250 LBs, would seem to be a liability against the run.

Philip Daniels is the DE run stopper, but he's getting way up there in years and miles.

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Really, who wasn't scratching their heads watching the Skins in the second round? That was bizarre. JLC might be a little harsh in his assessment, but he's right about a lot of it. I had never really thought about Snyder's obsession with WRs.

Posted by: jva | April 28, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Yoder is a good blocker, and can catch the occasional pass. Lets not make him out to be something he is not.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:28 AM

I will never forget Yoder putting Dawkins down, and out of the game, against Philly early in the season last year. I hope there's a spot for him on the team.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

The favorable draft evaluations being touted relied almost exclusively on a simple cost-benefit analysis based on who went when. They hardly addressed what the team needs were and whether they were addressed or should have been, as Jason had. A self-appointed goon squad in here is just all we need at the present moment, too. When this team has been middle-of-the-pack for oh so long now, how exactly do you ignore what they do? You'd think they'd been to Super Bowls all along...

Posted by: Dirk | April 28, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Durant Brooks (P) - Sigh. I don't like Frosty, but I don't like drafting kickers either. Clearly he was a value pick in terms of how he was rated and where he was picked, but would not have made the pick. The 2nd best punter in the draft was available as an UDFA, and this pick could have been used to develop a LB, CB, S, OL or DL, all of whom can make the team on the scout team or special teams.

Posted by: RedBee | April 28, 2008 9:48 AM

Bee--

1. Brooks was the only punter on the 'Skins board. They didn't have a "second highest."

2. As for UDFA, they are eligible to sign with 31 other teams. 'Skins couldn't even get Henderson from MD to sign with them. UDFA is a real crapshoot.

3. Frost is the 32nd ranked punter in the NFL. This is a position in major need of an upgrade.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Hay jva,

How many TD's did the WR's have last year? OK enough said, I will say it again you can not win if you can not score points.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Philip Daniels is the DE run stopper, but he's getting way up there in years and miles.

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 9:49 AM

You're right, but other than Merling, that type of player was long gone by #20. And he was gone by the time the skins picked.

Who here thinks that a better day one draft would be Merling in the first and Kelly in the second? Maybe, but I'm not confident enough about that to put money on it... or type a half-page screed on organizational incompetence.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

JLC - you really do SUCK! Not because I disagree with you (I agree with everything you said about the draft strategy), but because you don't know anything about football. Please explain to me how it is possible to have 6 eligible receivers on the field when you empty the backfield! It is not possible! 5 linemen + 1 QB = 6 guys. That leaves just 5 eligible receivers.

And how come ESPN beats you to every breaking redskins story???????

Posted by: Jake in DC | April 28, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Hmm, interesting opinion from JLC. It does seem that the Redskins could have "diversified their draft portfolio" so to speak.

Although, to be blunt, JLC's opinion - pretty much like mine - means squat.

He's a reporter. That's all. Not a football expert.

I wish the reporters in America one day would realize what their job is and what it isn't.

Report the news; don't make it.

Because frankly, too many reporters think they if only they ran the world, everything would be just so much better.

Posted by: Steve | April 28, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

you all know that i pretty much look for any excuse to bash JLC, but he did make several valid points.

The Thomas pick was solid. I also think getting Kelly was a no-brainer - we were enamoured with him and its true that moss can't stay healthy. ARE is a #3 guy. Realistically, in 1-2 years, we were going to need two new WRs for our #1 and #2 receiver slots - it takes receivers a while to develop so i view this as a great move.

The one thing I don't like is the davis pick - yeah he was undoubtably a steal there... but you can find great TEs in the 4th round. Getting Campbell would have been stupid since he is more suited for a 3-4 defense, but we should have gone after a CB, S, or DT there.

JLC is on point that this was a stoopid move. That being said, i like that we will likely not have to worry about the skill positions on offense for years to come.

In Rinehart, Heyer, and Alexander, we have solid backups and future potential starters for our O-line.

Our defensive backfield is set. Next year in the draft, we can very likely use ALL our draft picks on backup OL, starting DL, and maybe a LB.

Posted by: talkshowhost | April 28, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Message to JLC:

You need to get laid, man !
Get off that pessimistic mood...how long since you had a GOOD one ?

I think the Skins did pretty decent this weekend...you can only do so much when your highest pick is #21...and for once, we have a bunch of good prospects...no wonder Jason Campbell called coach Zorn to thank him for all the new weapons...and yes, we still need a DL...but all in all we solved a bunch of needs...HAIL !

Posted by: Ed A | April 28, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

The second round receiver picks were all about all those times inside the red zone where the Skins settled for field goals for the lack of big, athletic targets.

Remember the losses against the Cowboys and Giants? I would have killed for another big target aside from Cooley to find (they even caught to Mike Sellers).

Remember all the talk about maybe using Sean (RIP) in red zone?

Now the Skins have two big targets, two real field stretchers, and two 'can't put a linebacker on him' TE's. The offense could be creating the matchup problems it needs to support JCampbell.

Of course, I would also invite people to go back and look at JLC's take on last year's inability to get D Lineman, and the team finished 8th in the NFL in defense (after losing Sean)!

I would also note that the Skins in the last game of the season set Dallas's rushing futility record (-7 in a game), with that AWFUL (sic) D-Line.

I hope everyone has their "-7" signs for the 'Girls game.

Posted by: Dude | April 28, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

not sure what people hope to accomplish by constantly ripping on JLC. would you be happy if he didn't blog? do you think you can convince him that dan snyder is good for the team?

it's clear his blog is largely opinion/column not fact/reporting, which i think is great. he probably tends to fit facts (hearing coaches question the grades given to WRs) but you can decide for yourself if the coach providing that assessment should be ignored or not. I like hearing that stuff.

there seems to be some people who are offended by anything negative said about the team... as a longtime die hard fan i think it's our right and obligation to demand the best from the franchise. if that means questioning the way the team is run and hopefully causing some change, i think we are being loyal, not disloyal.

Posted by: in defense | April 28, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Another great outcome in this draft:

We didn't trade away a single pick from next year's draft to move up and "steal" a guy with questionable legs.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

This board is such an interesting example of the Danny's attempt to harass Jason into ceasing his appropriately data-driven criticism of this team. I mean, who could really argue with Jason's centralm premise that until the front office structure changes, this team will continue to be terrible for the next decade, just like the past decade.

Here's some evidence of the Danny's concerted attempt to harass Jason off the beat:

1) These crazy posts attacking Jason personally, even though he has been more right about the Redskins over the past five years than virtually anyone I know.

2) The recent complaint to the Sports section editors over Jason's suggestion that the Dann'y businesses haven't been doing well recently (obviously true).

3) The concerted effort to label Jason as anti-Italian (supposedly orginating with the an Italian American organization but with the Danny and Vinny's fingerprints all over it) because of the recent Vinny naming contest. (See Howell's column yesterday on the Op Ed page).

Redskins - this is pathetic. Who are these morons who buy your tickets to enable this type of pathetic behavior?

Posted by: Stop buying tickets to this charade! | April 28, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

No doubt that as individual picks, this draft was great. We got fantastic value, especially out of guys like Thomas and Kelly. It's tough to argue with that.

Having said that, I'm still disappointed with the overall draft, and the lack of addressing the offensive and defensive lines. One guard isn't what I consider addressing a line that has every starter over the age of 30, and a 7th round comp pick certainly isn't what I call addressing the defensive line.

Yes, the 2nd rounders were great value. Yes, we should be set for years to come at the WR/TE position. But to me, this draft is evidence of how backwards Snyder and Cerrato view the way to build a football team. They'd rather have their "weapons" set before they build their "core" (meaning offensive/defensive line). I simply don't agree with that. Maybe our "gems" will eventually turn into consistent starters (Alexander, Heyer). Who knows.

And anyone can go back and forth with the arguments. Some say we needed the receivers and TE because Moss and ARE struggle to stay healthy. I can say we need legit o-line prospects for the same reason (Jansen, Thomas). Some will say that Jansen and Thomas are great talents that have a very legit shot of getting and staying healthy, therefore we don't need their replacements right away. Again, the same exact thing can be said of Moss and ARE. In the end, both these positions were needs, and our FO decided that "weapons" are more important than the trenches. Not something I, and apparently JLC, agree with.

And I'm still confused as to how we can pretty much completely ignore the defensive line in the draft. We had a group of overachievers last year, and we've done nothing to improve them.

In the end, we definitely got talent in this draft. Can't argue that. I was hoping for it to be more well-rounded, but overall this was a change of pace for the skins, and was a solid stepping stone for the future.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

people seem to be obsessed with this "6 receivers" issue and i don't get it. you have to have depth... how many games have skins receivers missed over the last few years? you'll be lucky if it really is a problem finding time for all these picks.

not to mention the fact that like it or not a lot of picks don't work out, even for the best teams. you hope for the best but prepare for reality.

Posted by: depth matters | April 28, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"But, once again, the Redskins raised eyebrows around the league with their approach. Maybe they'll end up being brave iconoclasts - smarter than everyone else; defying conventional wisdom - but here's an examination of why they are being questioned for taking three pass catchers with their top three picks at a time when even they admit there are also pressing needs at OT, DT, DE, C/G, S, CB, OLB, FB, QB."

Who exactly is "everyone else," J-dumb? Every real expert has praised the Skins for trading down and snagging 3 guys in the 2nd round all with 1st rd grades, including probably the 2 best WRs in the draft on most boards, which was a huge position of need.
You were wrong on every prediction you made, then had the nerve to say of the Kareem Nichols pick that "I got one right". You made a ton of predictions, all wrong btw, but I don't remember that post where you predicted they'd take Nichols. VC has far more credibility to me than you, a poor reporter with an obvious chip on his shoulder for DS, VC, and all other things Redskin. Get over yourself and realize your place is to report news, and nothing more.

Posted by: G | April 28, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

not sure what people hope to accomplish by constantly ripping on JLC.

Posted by: in defense | April 28, 2008 10:00 AM

What do you hope to accomplish by kissing his a$$?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Day One of this draft still sucks. WR-TE-WR.

Day Two, whoop de doo. Nothing happened on day two to impress me or make up for the shabingus of day one. I mean, it's really terrific to have added a bunch of "just a guy" type players. Really, really terrific. I'm sure a couple of these schlubs will be contributors, and that will be awesome. But today, I'm nonplussed.

Also, and others have made similar comments, with all the trades down we made, shouldn't we have wound up with, like fifteen picks? I'm not really strong with the maths, but it seems like we subtracted by addition. Something like that.

Maybe something else is going to happen... maybe a big trade will surprise us and suddenly we'll have a pass rush. Maybe... *sigh*

Go Zorn. Hail Skins. And etc.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

to me, the only questionable pick was Fred Davis. Even using two TE sets, the focus will be to get the ball to the WR's and Cooley. A second TE when Calias Campbell was there was shocking to me. We could have gotten a competent backup much later on and fill a glaring need a DE. That said, I love all the other picks, Frost sucks and if this guy can average a 5-10 yard improvement is huge in field position. The DB's all seem to be solid backups and depth that we needed, we wouldn't be giving our third QB reps this offseason anyway, its a new playbook the only QB's getting reps are JC and TC. The WR's!!!!! are you kidding me? we got the two best guys on most everybody's board and we needed help bad, we have had poor WR's for years. I know you don't know if they'll be great yet or not but they are certainly upgrades over the street crew we had previously behind Moss and ARE, and hopefully we can slide ARE back in the slot where he belongs. I thought it was a great draft with one weird pick.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 28, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

I dont mind the two WR picks, but that TE pick was JUST STUPID. Ceratto is a fool and once again shows how ignorant he is. We have one of the best TE's in the entire NFL and we blow a high pick when we have so many pressing needs. Gollum you stink.

Posted by: zap | April 28, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

also, we need a DE, Jason Taylor is available, anybody think the Danny won't go get him?

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 28, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

there seems to be some people who are offended by anything negative said about the team

I disagree. I think that some of us are sick of hearing NOTHING BUT NEGATIVITY, on this blog. He states you can't judge a draft immediately, then continues to do the very think he stated that you CANNOT do.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Hey Nate if that is really you, what good does a DE do a team that can not score?

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I agree with In Defense. Redskins fans LOVE to drink the Kool-Aid. That's why many of us are happy with just making the playoffs year after year. When you look at what the Giants did last year, they won with a young, fast defensive line. Football games are won in the trenches. You win by knocking down the other quarterback, and protecting your own. Look at what happened to the Patriots against the pressure of the Giants D-linemen, despite having an All World Quarterback and Wide Receiver combo, they lost.

Our offensive line is good, but old and injury prone. I only hope that JCampbell has time to throw the ball to the 6 receivers we plan on sending out there.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I'm ok with this draft. We ought to thank STL for taking Avery instead of Thomas... things would look a lot different if we took Kelly at #34.

Taking Davis at #48 is the big question, but having 2 good pass-catching TEs is a fine. Davis will push Cooley to be even better. Plus, both will line up on short yardage plays, along with Kelly and Thomas, giving skins a height advantage. NE had 2 good TEs (Stevens and Watson), both 1st rounders, before Stevens left for SEA. It worked extremely well for Brady.

ARE or Moss may be traded at some point. At any rate, I think the Skins are finally strong and deep at 2 positions (TE/WR) that will create match-up problems for opposing teams. Can Zorn and Campbell deliver? That's the question.

Getting the punter was a good pick. I love Rinehart, and the CB, Tryon, is a gamer (although he has a mouth that rivals Smoot's). Low-round safeties are good picks for depth -- one may pan-out to challenge Doughty. That's fine.

All-in-all, not perfect but there's little to complain about. 3 #2s is a good haul -- affordable potentially top-line players. If the OL and DL studs were not there in the second round, what can you do? Look back at prior drafts: a lot of high picks don't pan-out. Got to take players you like, regardless of need and position. The question is, is our scouting dept any good?

Posted by: chris_zz | April 28, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

JLC is the worst!!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Nate in the PDX,

Exactly which dude should the Redskins have picked that would suddenly have given us a pass rush? All the serious game changers were gone when the Redskins picked.

And exactly who should they have picked on the second day who wasn't a "just a guy" player? It's the second day of the draft.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Great assessment JLC. Soo many needs and these baffoons continue to be obsessed with WR. Again, two picks...enough. Get some interior help. It was just a stupid, stupid pick. Gollum at his best.

Posted by: zap | April 28, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

SMC, here is your big chance. How would you have done this draft? You obviously work in the football industry, so expound upon us some of your vast knowledge.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Last I checked the Redskins have a top 10 defense and an offense that is full of overpriced skill players that can't get in the end zone. This team routinely scores 17 or less points a game. So what's the big deal about drafting pass catchers. How many TD's have Moss and Randel El scored in the last 2 years?

Posted by: virtueandvice | April 28, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Why should anyone be surprised by the Redskins picks in the draft? This team has no plan! No GM equals, no plan. They have gapping needs at both offensive and defensive lines and they instead of spending their first three picks addressing those needs, they select three pass cathers. When will the team understand that without a solid line, it doesn't make a difference how gifted your WR's are.

Posted by: Esteban | April 28, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Another great outcome in this draft:

We didn't trade away a single pick from next year's draft to move up and "steal" a guy with questionable legs.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 10:02 AM

And another:

We didn't trade multiple picks for Chad Johnson!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

The standard among the haters, includ Hate in the PDX, seems to the that we have to solve all our problems in one draft. And if we don't solve them all, then the front office are "idiots" (at best).

Well, that would be fine if we had 18 picks in the first three rounds. We had three picks in the first three rounds, and we got three first round talents. That was a windfall.

Next year, we'll solve more problems in the draft. And more still in the following year.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Just look at what parcels did with the dolphins..

Who cares? We have more playoff wins in the last decade than he does

Posted by: G | April 28, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Hey Esteban,

Tell me who of the O-Line prospects you would have picked that would have started this year? Do not just post what we should have done back it up with some knowledge if you have any. The O-Line played pretty good last year and guess what we averaged 16 points a game.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Discuss.

Posted by: Hey morons, stop buying tix! | April 28, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly was hands down the best receiver in this draft and will turn into a solid player. The only reason he drops is because he runs 40 time that doesn't blow anyone away. News flash - measurables are bunk. If you're a football player you're a football player and will succeed at the next level. I would've been happy selecting him at #21 but getting him, Thomas and Davis was just icing on the cake.

Granted I would've picked Calais Campbell, (Miami players always become good pro's and this guy is no differesnt) over Fred Davis but Davis is still a beast and will create major mismatches in the passing game.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Maybe the Chad Johnson thing is not over?? 2 WR's in the 2nd round. Trade Moss from Chad Johnson and next years 2nd rounder?? Its a reach, but maybe something to think about.

Posted by: Bill | April 28, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

When will the team understand that without a solid line, it doesn't make a difference how gifted your WR's are.

Posted by: Esteban | April 28, 2008 10:19 AM

When will you understand that if your pee-wee receivers can't get open, it doesn't matter how long the QB has to throw the ball?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

So... how many more PPG are we going to score this fall, now that we have these new WRs and TE? Make your predictions now...


I reserve the right to be unimpressed with this draft. But I have been clearly in the minority up here, saying D line and O line and even secondary should have been a priority over WR... so obviously I have been out of synch with the front office for months now (shocker).

Really glad to see so much happiness/positivity over the draft (honest!), especially in the wake of the comedy of errors coaching search. Sorry I'm not on board with it, but I have "trust issues" with this front office.

I sincerely hope the result of all this -- the new coaching staff, FA inactivity, draft, UDFAs -- is a better team this fall than we had last fall. We shall see.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Lets all be honest... We're arent going to win the Superbowl next year.

New Coach
New system

A playoff berth would be a great outcome. We addressed our skill postions for WCO.

Next season, land a free agent OL or DL and draft linemen and linebackers in next years draft.

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Exactly which dude should the Redskins have picked that would suddenly have given us a pass rush? All the serious game changers were gone when the Redskins picked.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 10:14 AM

I'll chime in here, if you don't mind. There were two moves that could've been made.

(1) We could've kept the #21 pick, and drafted Merling. We still would have gotten Kelly at 51. We would've had to sacrifice Davis (not a huge loss, IMO), and probably could have found a serviceable 2nd TE later in the draft. I'm not faulting the skins for trading back, I thought it was the right move, but this certainly was an option.

(2) We could've taken Calais Campbell instead of Davis at 48. Campbell didn't perform well (with measurables) at the combine, and thus had his stock drop. He's had a 1st round grade all year, and only fell after his poor workouts. We all praise the Kelly pick for picking a 1st-round talent who fell b/c of poor 40 times and a questionable attitude. How exactly is Campbell any different? And you can't say that TE was a greater need than DE, because it's not.

That 2nd scenario is the most puzzling to me. TE wasn't even on our radar, but somehow after the draft we "needed" a 2nd TE because Yoder isn't good enough to run the 2TE sets, and Cooley has all of a sudden become "expensive."

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

I'm cautiously optimistic about this draft. Here is what Clark Judge on CBS Sportsline says about the skins draft:

"8. Nobody did better in the second round than Washington. At the 21st spot, the Redskins were weighing defensive end Phillip Merling vs. Devin Thomas. Then Atlanta called. The Redskins traded out, moving down to the 34th spot, yet still found Thomas. So they chose him with one of Atlanta's two second-round picks and tight end Fred Davis with the other. Smart."


Now looking at it that way...I wouldn't have been blown away that the skins picked Thomas with the 21st. I would have rather had Merling but knowing Dan the man I knew we would have gotten a receiver. Because of this deal we basically got Fred Davis for free. I would have rather gotten Calais Campbell with the 48th and then grabbed Fred Davis with the 51st if he was still there, but hey I don't run this thing.

Drafting the punter was a great call. Yes I said it. Frost is average at best. And we all know that the first 6-8 games of the year we are going to have a good amount of three and outs, because it always takes at least one year to get used to a system. So field position will be huge and I just don't trust good ol' Frosty with his knack of shanking punts at the worst times. He has gotten better...but he's average at best. This kid is going to be top 7 or 8 in the league his first year.

The Offensive Lineman we took is going to be a great guard and can play tackle like he did in college...should someone go down. I think we got a good corner at the time we took him, even though he is small, but he has speed not to get beat.

We just have to hope we don't get too banged up on the defensive line because as it is we are already thin and average to below average there compared to the rest of the league. Let's see if our linebackers and secondary can make up for it...again.

Posted by: JMU Skins Fan | April 28, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Tell me who of the O-Line prospects you would have picked that would have started this year? Do not just post what we should have done back it up with some knowledge if you have any. The O-Line played pretty good last year and guess what we averaged 16 points a game.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 10:24 AM

Who of these receivers is going to start this year? How about Davis? My guess is none of them. This draft was for the future, not for immediate dividends. The FO decided that WR and TE were more of a need for the future than O-line or D-line. Not very smart IMO.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Doesn't it worry you as fans that Snyder was locked onto Ocho Stinko in January so much so that he mentioned him in coaching interviews? And that he obsessed over him right up until draft day?

Skins fans owe a debt of gratitude to the Bengals. I do have some concerns about taking three pass catchers, but will wait and see on that.

But it is completely nuts the way ownership and the FO obsessed over Ocho Stinko. Same old same old

Posted by: Give JLa a break | April 28, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

I agree it would have been nice to get help at DL but Groves and Campbell both fit more in a 3-4 defense. At DT after Dorsey, Ellis, and Balmer their are no DT worth drafting over players like Kelly or Davis. I am happy to see them at least drafting players instead of going out and trading for players on the downside of their career or signing overpriced free agents. I hope this is a sign of things changing.

Posted by: brandon | April 28, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

I guess what concerns me most is that I thought bolstering the pass rush was a very big deal for this team this offseason, and that we could have found SOMEONE in one of the early rounds who plays on the D line and could join the rotation and provide some push upfield... acknowledging that all the apparent D line studs were gone by the time we were on the clock with #21... but then nothing. We hear nothing about D line until well into day two, with our ninth pick, in the seventh round.

Again, the fact that I was this out of synch with the front office is no surprise...

Not saying we could have solved our pass rush problems in this draft given the hand we were dealt, just that it's April 28 and we haven't done anything that will definitely improve our pass rush for this fall. Or maybe I missed something.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

So... how many more PPG are we going to score this fall, now that we have these new WRs and TE? Make your predictions now...

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 10:27 AM

How many are you predicting, Nate, with all your negativity?

Last year the 'Skins averaged 20.9 points per game, tied for 18th in the league. Four more points per game would have raised them to ninth -- right between the Browns and the Steelers. New England was first with 36.8 and the Cowboys were second with 28.4.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

psps-

I would put money on one or both of those receivers starting this season.

Posted by: etrod | April 28, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, but JLC has cleary gotten sick of this beat. I'm just tired of every article being completely negative. It's entirely possible everything he says could come true, but it's also possible we could finally have the really great offense we've been craving for. JLC's favorite team the Ravens reached on Flacco, and they still don't have the WR core to be a stellar offense. Whether or not you agree with the WR picks, you can't argue the value we got with those picks.

Posted by: Scott | April 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

1. This is a not an article (news), or a column (opinion), but a BLOG. It's a this-is-what-I'm-thinking-at-the-moment piece. If you don't like it, so what?
2. Name one owner in the last 30 years who has been successful by meddling in the draft. Fans always love flashy positions like WR and QB, and undervalue the guys doing the real work. If you aren't trouble by reading that Snyder was actually at the workouts, you aren't thinking too clearly.
3. WRs don't pan out about 50% of the time -- you just can't tell. Plus, it takes 3 years for most of them to be ready to start (with a few notable exceptions -- the most prominent of which was one of hte last players drafted 2 years ago -- so don't get your hopes up too high for either of these guys to help much this year. Or next.
4. Zorn is going over JC's mechanics. I hope he has a drill for throwing long while going down underneath a 260 pound DE.
5. The people happiest about the draft are probably the Giants' defensive line. Although it may be the Eagles' defensive line. Or maybe Dallas' guys. Their offensive lines are probably pretty pleased too.

Posted by: groundhogdayguy | April 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Section 104 - - Well Said! The only thing I would add is to take a look at how long it took our receivers to score at touchdown last year. Cooley was the only reliable weapon in the red zone. We kicked way too many field goals last year. I envision a scenario where Santana and ARE and Thomas run defenses all over the field. Then in the red zone, here comes the big package.

Posted by: Fingerchop | April 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Washington Redskins - OG Kerry Brown, OT Shannon Boatman, OT Devin Clark, S Kevin Mitchell, CB Matterral Richardson, DL Dorian Smith, C Kyle DeVan

From:

http://potencial.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/udfa-tracker/

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

The one thing that gives me pause was listening to The Owner on radio this past Friday (or someday over the weekend?) about the "product" (i.e., the draft board) that does (did) the picking ... so that part of Jasno's read makes sense to me ... if you fiddle on the board at the end of the process to move guys up a position, then the results should be expected.

Also, he (The Owner) said something about how they got the "character issue guys" off the board. On that, I say BS. The reason Fred Davis was available when we got him -- even if he graded as best TE in the draft -- was because of "character issues." [I don't know his full story ... someone can fill us in ... but many sites dropped him to something like the #4 TE based on his maturity and rep.

On the idea of getting three receivers in a row, esp. if they really only want or need one receiver, I am AOK with that. Receivers are the biggest crap shoot in the draft ... if you want one, pick three and hope for the best.

My ultimate judgments about this draft, i.e., whether it gets my A grade, is on >5 of the 10 make the roster. If they do, I give it an A. If not, it gets a C. Less than 3 gets a C minus. I also am a little concern about how much the character-dar got loosened in post-Gibbs year one. If any one of the picks doesn't make the roster based on an off-field screwup (as opposed to actual talent), then I give it a C minus regardless.

Finally, I totally agree with Jasno's take on how the head coachabingus has way over-extended Zorn. Something had to give. Sounds like the something will turn out to be the playbook.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

The FO decided that WR and TE were more of a need for the future than O-line or D-line. Not very smart IMO.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 10:32 AM

Agree to disagree. Great to get JC his receivers of the future. They need to work together and build timing. The sooner they start, the better. Not much timing to build between JC and the right guard.

And, yeah, at least one of those receivers will be a starter in the first game this year, pushing ARE to #3 where he was signed to play.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Psps,

Merling is not a rusher he is a run stopping DE, Campbell is a 3-4 DE who is about as strong as my 10 year old daughter. One of the WR's will be starting day one and as soon as Moss or ARE get hurt the other will be starting.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Here's the deal: the front office went out and got a bunch of "playmakers" for this offense. They have no excuses next year. It's Snyder's GM, coach, draft, and organization. We will soon see if he has learned something in his decade in the NFL, or if it's more of the same tomfoolery and hijinks.

My money's on the latter, but it's not like I'm all of a sudden going to stop watching or going to games. After all, I've been a fan of the maroon and black and gold since I was a wee little lad.

Posted by: P Diddy | April 28, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Thomas will start this year and ARE will go back to the slot where he is the highest paid player in the league. Everyone bashes the fact we didn't go OLine, but we did, we took a guard/tackle to add to our stable of solid backups, Fabini, Wade, Heyer, and Alexander. We have great depth on the Oline and if Thomas and Jansen stay healthy, we have one of the best Olines in the league, a backup center can be found anywhere. Now with all our weapons we have helped JC, our Oline (now pinning your ears back with legit threats outside) and CP cause they can't stack the box on him, I'm tired of our 16 points a game and hope the defense holds, lets open it up and put some pressure on people, obviously that's what Zorn wants to do and now we have the weapons to do it. Plus, we can get a vet DE or DT after the June 1st cuts, there was nobody there that was a sure thing on the Dline and we needed the WR's. Free Agency proved there were no good WR's out there.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 28, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

One more thing: The Skins rather inadvertently showed their great confidence in their own selections by drafting a new punter. They must figure that they're going to need him. Maybe there will be so much work that they'll keep Frost as well.

Posted by: groundhogdayguy | April 28, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Please sign a name to your comments, anonymous friend at 10:36am. You're participating in the conversation, and you ought to be using a name. It's more fun that way.


In 2007 we scored 20.9 PPG, tied for 18th in the league.

I predict we will score 20 PPG in 2008, a reduction of .9 PPG. While our punting will be better, our placekicking will decline, to the tune of approximately one missed extra point a week.

Predictions are awesome.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

skinfanman, I'm with you on 100% of your posts today. Also, thanks for the UDFA link!

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

NFL | D. Smith does limited work at Pro Day - from www.KFFL.com
Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:42:26 -0700

J.J. Pesavento, of Next Level Scouting, reports Oregon State DL Dorian Smith measured a height of 6-foot-1 1/2 and a weight of 264 pounds at his Pro Day. He measured a 30 1/2-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-2 broad jump and ran the 40-yard dash in 4.87 seconds.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Skins had a good draft. YOu can't address all the needs all the time. They got great value int he WR picks and have set up the offense fro quite some time. Our defense was decent last year, if our offense can be just a little more productive then we will be alright. Maybe we can sign Marcus Dixon as a UFA?

Welcome to DC draft picks, here a little somethign to help you get acquanted with the neighbor hood.

http://www.straycompass.com/article_page.php?recordID=14

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Although there were some questionable decisions, I liked the draft overall. I actually like the two wide receivers we got in the 2nd round. They were first round talent at 2nd round value and that position has been a problem for us for so unbelievably long. You figure they won't resign S. Moss when his contract is up. So, it will be M. Kelly, D. Thomas and Randel El. They will be 6'4, 6'2 and 5'10, respectively. Not bad. The TE selection is questionable. I know we need a younger TE to complement and backup Cooly. Todd Yoder is old and they other guy we drafted in the 7th round last year has been hurt. And, I know Davis was a first round grade that fell into the 2nd round, but we just should have addressed the TE later in the draft and focused more on a blocking TE. I don't know why we selected a punter in the 5th round after we just resigned Derrick Frost. I like the OG pick from Northern Iowa in the 3rd. I don't mind the QB pick to groom a 3rd stringer. I don't mind the two safety picks, but we should have picked safeties earlier in the draft. I don't like CB pick. The guy is too small and not fast enough. So, if little old me was going to grade, I would have to give the draft a C+. But, I'll give them credit that they stuck to their board. When you reach for a need, that is when you make bad picks. I would have liked some more offensive lineman, LBs and CBs, but I am glad we are done trying to find a WR every freaking year. Also, why is everyone freaking out of the Dline. We just drafted two solid guys a couple of years ago and Andre Carter is still young and Chris Wilson is coming along well. D. Evans can play in his spot to stop the run, too.

Posted by: carnold | April 28, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Both Brennan and Davis have had character issues in the past. Brennan's issues were serious, Davis's issues (tardiness, sleeping in meetings, etc.) seem more like the issues of a homesick 19 year old than a real character flaw. By all accounts, Davis has put that stuff behind him. Brennan, also, has paid his dues to society and seems to have matured. I'd give them both the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Posted by: P Diddy | April 28, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Who of these receivers is going to start this year? How about Davis? My guess is none of them. This draft was for the future, not for immediate dividends. The FO decided that WR and TE were more of a need for the future than O-line or D-line. Not very smart IMO

psp, I'd bet that all of the players picked in the second round contribute this year. What part of Santana's last two years gives you the idea that he's going to be healthy all year long? Who would you rather have stepping into that spot, Thomas or Kelly, or Thrash Mix? Lets say the Redskins go 4 wide on occasion, does Thomas and Kelly give you more options than Thrash/Mix.

Also, did Reinhart not get drafted? Is he not able to help out the offensive line? Or is he just not who you wanted the Redskins to draft.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Nate,

I used to use a name, but got tired of the hate. Now, my ideas speak for themselves.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Then in the red zone, here comes the big package.

Posted by: Fingerchop | April 28, 2008 10:38 AM

That's what she said.

Posted by: etrod | April 28, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

My other thought ... Jasno put a little too much stock in the insufficiency in numbers of replacements at the line of scrimmage. The Skins could afford to go BPA at every pick this year b/c they have 25 returning starters. Admittedly, the Skins will need to return to the line of scrimmage next year in free agency and the draft, but the depth who started last year (Fabini, Heyer, rotating DTs and DEs) will all return to being depth this season. The Skins had no depth at WR last year ... just free agent filler.

With that, I'm holding my breath until they target Albert Haynesworth in free agency next season ...

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

JLC, you are so wrong. Your basic assumption is flawed because you are judging the Skins front office as a professional one representing a franchise with a rich history. HA! Yea right! To properly view this draft we have to simply say one thing, for the first year (thus far) the Skins did not sale the future and CAP purgatory on one or two overvalued free agents.

No, they drafted three rookie pass catchers with manageable cap figures for the next three years. So what we lost half of our starting right side last year. So what the only playable backup lineman is Stephon Heyer. So what the Giants won the superbowl because of the pressure they put on the QB. These things don't matter when you can catch the ball.

Posted by: SkinDiddy | April 28, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

JLA - I appreciate your hard work, but this is a little ridiculous (maybe you need some rest). I know we need some help on the lines, but need it more at WR and TE. Consider:

OL
Jansen
Samuels
Kendell
Thomas
Heyer
Wade

DL
Golston
Griffin
Carter
Daniels
Montgomery

WR
Moss
ARE
?
?

TE
Cooley
?

We need several players, but I think WR and TE should be near the top. Our WRs were just not that good last year and Cooley is seeing too many defenders when he releases.

Posted by: BT | April 28, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

this may have already been posted, but for what its worth, mel kiper completely disagrees with jason, saying that the redskins had the "best move" in the draft for an NFC East Team:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/columns/story?columnist=walker_james&id=3370782

Best move

After failing to land Cincinnati Bengals receiver Chad Johnson in a trade last week, the Washington Redskins did a great job of upgrading the position by taking Michigan State's Devin Thomas and Oklahoma's Malcolm Kelly in the second round.

Thomas and Kelly were considered among the top three receiving prospects, and the Redskins landed both by trading out of the first round to gain a pair of second-round picks.

Redskins rookie head coach Jim Zorn will implement a West Coast offense and needs big receiving targets who can make plays after the catch. Thomas (6-foot-2, 216 pounds) and Kelly (6-3¾, 224) fit the bill.

Drafting these two players puts the Johnson pursuit to rest, but it's a pretty good consolation.


Posted by: talkshowhost | April 28, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand all the hate towards Moss and ARE. When did they become the enemies of this franchise? ARE was the most reliable receiver we had (before he got hurt), and Moss (despite having a couple DISMAL games), still is an elite talent that had over 800 yards while missing A LOT of time on the field. Assuming that they'll automatically be injured is just as stupid as assuming Jansen and Thomas will have some freak injury cut their season short.

My guess is that all 4 stay healthy for the season, Moss returns to pro-bowl level (simply by staying healthy), ARE has a career year (somewhere around 60 rec. for 800-900 yards), and neither Thomas nor Kelly take over either of their spots this year.

Again, I won't bash either Thomas or Kelly, and I sincerely hope they become what we think they will become. I just question the judgment of the FO to put so much stock into the WR/TE position, and so little into the offensive/defensive lines.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Calvin Johnson, whom everyone agreed was the most physically gifted and talented Wide Receiver in the history of the draft, could barely break the starting line-up last year in Mike Martz's pass happy offense. I don't know where the people who keep saying that one of our draft picks will be a reliable player in the upcoming season are coming from. Neither of those receivers that we took in the 2nd round are even close to Johnson's ability.

I also happen to think that JLa's blogs are healthy for Redskins nation. If it weren't for his doses of pessimism, we'd all be drunk off the kool-aid all year round.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

* Kerry Brown, OG, Appalachian State
* Shannon Boatman, OT, Florida State
* Devin Clark, OT, Mexico State
* Kevin T Mitchell, S, Illinois
* Matterral Richardson, CB, Arkansas
* Horace Gant, WR, St. Olaf
* Kyle DeVan, C, Oregon State
* Dorian Smith, DE, Oregon State

that's all I can find so far, I hope they get Ali Highsmith or some other LB help. Everybody please chill out a little too, we got some very good picks and we can fill out other needs with the post June 1st cuts they happen every year, there is no guarantee that these WR's will hit, but there is certainly no guarantee that any of those Dlineman available would hit either, why not take a shot and some of the best talents at a need position than take the 6 or 7th best guys at a position of less need. I thought it was a great draft, we only had 2 legit WR's on our roster....and I would argue that ARE isn't a legit WR.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 28, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Mel Kiper is an idiot.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I want to know who these linemen are the Skins should have drafted. It's not like they passed on Dorsey and little Howie. Can't we just be happy we didn't trade our entire board to the Bengals for a 30 year old receiver?

Posted by: AAA | April 28, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

If we culled your draft related posts from the last three weeks, they would fly in the face of what they actually did.

You wanted bodies/mashers on both sides of the ball, were steadfast adamately against Kelly and more stuff I can't recall.

But now your saying everyone else is smarter than you so why comment? I actually was looking forward to your posts today b/c your an intelligent team optimist, but this was not the draft you would have prescribed.

But whateves, its all beer talk at this point we'll see on the field. Unfortunetely that has not been a strength area for the skins for 16 years. Something's gotta give.

My take:

- I would have passed on Kelly

- I really dont get the TE Davis pick. To me this degrades the draft. Good player, bad pick. And i am not going to buy he was the best player on the board.

- love the thomas pick

- love the reinhart pick, all his negaives seem like perfect things for buges to fix.

- nervous about the number of smaller college guys.

- love the ammount of picks

- love how we valued the draft

- love how we arent adding first round money to cap.

- love DB youth

- punter could be brilliant or a waste...wil b e fun to monitor and something we can judge quickly.

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

I don't think anybody is bashing ARE and Moss. It is more the fact that that they have not been able to remain healthy.

Posted by: BT | April 28, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

greg,

i was ecstatic for the Rinehart selection. But there are still (at least) 3 other positions on the o-line that need depth and eventual replacements. heyer could be one of those, but we needed more options there.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Calvin Johnson, whom everyone agreed was the most physically gifted and talented Wide Receiver in the history of the draft, could barely break the starting line-up last year in Mike Martz's pass happy offense.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 10:52 AM

Saw an interview with Calvin J. He talked about a back injury he had. Needed an injection just to go out and play each Sunday, but did it.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Well i think Zorn has a pretty good idea about our recievers and players. We did play Seattle 2/3 years in the playoffs. I am sure he looked at tons of film and such. And he left on good terms with holgrem i bet he has scouting tapes of all of our players provided to him.

While i agree that our oline is aging it certainly isnt in dire straights. Our D line was solid last year, not great but certainly not horrible.

Our recievers however, if i have to watch one more ball sail 1" over our smurf recievers hands again i may puke. LINEMAN in this league are 6-4 to 6-7 how the heck do you find a reciever unless he is 30 yards down field that is 5-10? Good stuff in the draft in my opinion.


Posted by: KCskinsfan | April 28, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Here is why it was a successful draft for the skins:

1) They havent had a consistent top rated passing game since '91 and its the primary reason they havent been very sucessful. They have the QB in Campbell, it would be a shame if they didnt get him some weapons.

2) Everyone keeps talking about the holes on the o-line, but arent looking at the whole picture. All of them will be back next year so their is no gaping hole. there were 8 offensive lineman taken in the first round, and by the time the skins picked (at 21) none of the good ones were left. Looking at the 2009 draft 7 offensive lineman have first round grades. Supply and demand dictates that one or more of those guys are going to be available in the second round, so skins will have opportunity to fix the issue next year.

3) D-line definitely needs help but we have had top 10 defenses through most of the Snyder era without any true superstars on the d-line.


Posted by: Just J | April 28, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Todd Yoder is old and they other guy we drafted in the 7th round last year has been hurt. ... I don't know why we selected a punter in the 5th round after we just resigned Derrick Frost. ... I don't mind the two safety picks, but we should have picked safeties earlier in the draft. ...

Posted by: carnold | April 28, 2008 10:46 AM

First of all, welcome to the blog!

Second, I don't understand the disinterest in Yoder. If the definition of playmaker is make a play at a real important time to change momentum, see Yoder. The connections (plural) from The Todd to Todd came at key moments (and DEEP balls) for TDs. Plus, his special teams tackle numbers are large. Also, he is not old.

Next, that final round safety is exciting to me ... plus he worked under DeWayne Robertson (Skins secondary coach just prior to becoming DC at UCLA) ... so presumably the information pipeline was working. I think the only reason he slid as far as he did has to do with the wrist injury. UCLA's safety combo was Area 51 in JV form.

Derrick Frost has been a dead man walking since he tried to shop himself after getting a lowballed (vet min) with no signing bonus. The beginning of the end was the knee punts. Lucky rolls is no way to make a name for yourself long term on the roster. He has a long memory (after a bad punt ... that takes 2-3 more bad punts to shake), and no hang time. Given my months of pimping for a punter pick here, I concede bias (and victory!) on this point.

Finally, Skins have two starting safeties, and one guy to back them up. The skill set of a safety (esp. an aggressive one) is the backbone of special teams (see V. Fox and most recent special teams captain, R. Doughty). You have to use late round picks at some position.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

You wanted bodies/mashers on both sides of the ball, were steadfast adamately against Kelly and more stuff I can't recall.

True, but in Reinhardt I think they came away with a steal. I also think that Kerry Brown is going to stick with this team. I was a big proponent of Nicks, and Brandon Keith, and wish the team had signed them, but that didn't happen.

Looking at what the team has struggled with the past few years, what the Redskins did makes sense. They didn't REACH for players. They got VALUE in where they drafted guys. I'd have preferred they stay away from Kelly, but that was based on his whining about the field conditions. He probably lasted til pick 51 because of that, so in a sense it helped the Redskins out.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

So we should have taken middle tier depth at Oline and Dline where we return all our starters instead of taking premier talent at positions were we were returning........crickets.........crickets.......nobody!?!?!?!?! we had two WR's and James Trash on our roster and haven't had a decent backup TE ever. How have the Cowboys, Colts, and Patriots enjoyed having two solid threats at TE?

Posted by: Jack | April 28, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse


What a surprise, more doom and gloom from JLC. The D and our weak line has not precluded us from being top 10 3 of 4 years. D was not our problem scoring TD's is, so we tried to address it. Were we right who knows but we tried.

Your second guessing is a tired routine. Somehow every skins beat writer for the post ends up jaded and with an ax to grind. Sad and unprofessional.

Posted by: Alex | April 28, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

3) D-line definitely needs help but we have had top 10 defenses through most of the Snyder era without any true superstars on the d-line.

Posted by: Just J | April 28, 2008 11:03 AM

That should say through the Marvin Lewis/ GWilliams eras. I think you're underestimating the impact the loss of Greg Williams will have on this defense. Hopefully I'm wrong on that point.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Dont forget people, that by trading out of the 21st pick the Redskins saved about $6M in guaranteed and basically got the player they wanted in the first place. Ultimately, they will be able to sign the 3 2nd rounders for less guaranteed money than the 1 # 1 @21.

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse


I liked what the Skins did with their 1st and 2nd round picks...they basically got two big WR's that should fit into Zorn's offense and then got TE Fred Davis for free. The talent at #21 was just the same as talent at #40....so good for the Skins there. No doubt the Skins have lacked a decent #2 WR for years...so if Thomas or Kelly make it then GREAT...if both do then FANTASTIC....if both are busts at least it was a small 2nd round contract with little salary cap impact.

The second day of the draft, different story. I think they reached on all of the players. The Colt Brennan dude looks like he would have gone undrafted due to hip surgury. I think they really bombed on the second day....but I actually like the punter pick....hope he is consistent and punts Frost out of Ashburn.

My 2 cents

Posted by: the_squire | April 28, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

psp, isn't Blache going to run the same style of defense? How many starters did the Redskins lose in the offseason on Defense?

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

We effectively handled arguatively the best defensive line (Giants) twice last year with the entire right side of the line in the infirmary ward. We get those guys back this year, moving Fabini, Heyer, and Wade back to back-up roles.....add a potential stud in the draft and then add a more experienced Alexander to the mix. Other than a back-up center (which we should be able to address in post June 1 cuts), is offensive line really THAT big of a concern?

Maybe long-term (due to the current ages of the linemen), but short term...I think the FO was right in assessing WR as a greater need.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

"Looking at what the team has struggled with the past few years, what the Redskins did makes sense. They didn't REACH for players. They got VALUE in where they drafted guys."

greg, I agree with your assessment here. As individual picks, we did fantastic. It's tough to argue that. As a whole, however, I don't think we had enough of a plan. I would have rather given up on Davis and/or Kelly, and taken positions of greater need, even if they were slight reaches. Thomas should've been enough to settle the WR issue, and Davis was completely unnecessary, especially in the 2nd round. That's the only problem I had with this draft.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

psps,

There will be no drop off because we lost man boobs. Blache is just as effective as a DC, remeber the Bears defense was great while he was there.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

++++Mel Kiper, who has dedicated his life to knowing the draft, and ALL things draft related, and is considered the FORE-MOST expert on things of a draft nature.++++


The ONLY thing Mel Kiper has dedicated his life to is his hair.

Posted by: corkczar & Fabio | April 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

psp, isn't Blache going to run the same style of defense? How many starters did the Redskins lose in the offseason on Defense?

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 11:12 AM

He may run the same style, but that doesn't mean he'll be just as effective. I don't think our defense will be "bad", but I don't expect to see as good or better results than GWill had with this defense, especially since no impact players were added.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I disagree with Jason on this one. The Skins have absolutely no depth at WR, either, and the two starters are continually getting hurt. They needed to sure that up. The line is aging, but I think you can get another year out of that group. The Skins will address that in the next draft, I'm sure. I think the D-line has some young kids on it, too, so there's not as big a rush to fill those holes. The only pick I questioned was the USC TE. I know you need two in the WC offense, but I don't think they needed to reach that high for one.

Posted by: Colin | April 28, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

got TE Fred Davis for free.

Posted by: the_squire | April 28, 2008 11:11 AM

He wasn't free. They gave up their third round pick. The Falcons used it to take a WR, Harry Douglas. But the 'Skins could have gotten a TE (Craig Stevens), the beast S that the Ravens got (Zbikowski) or a good DT or OLB.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Amazing that people can find the names of the UDFA's but the "Insider" has no idea or insight!! Joke!

Posted by: Synder's taller than me!!!! | April 28, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

I don't have a problem picking 2 WRs. Obviously the WR position is pot luck in ANY draft (see McMillan, Detroit). So all the arm chair quarterbacking about how good these WRs are compared to previous year's picks should just stop. We won't know how good they are for a couple years.

What I do have a problem with is the TE. We OBVIOUSLY didn't need him. And we have other, glaring needs. I remember being outraged when I saw that pick. I may have even posted some outrage on this blog. To me, that represents true negligence.

I'm also displeased that they didn't draft/sign Hampton's Dixon. He would have been a 3rd or 4th rounder had it not been for that whole rape trial and imprisonment thing. And we didn't get him. He went to Dallas. When you're at the bottom of the draft, you have to look for guys with talent and desire that for whatever reason didn't maximize it at the college level. Dixon was a prime example. He spend over a year in jail and that stunted his growth. But no one denies his talent. We could have had a late blooming, low risk, high reward player at a position of need and instead we drafted a S and a DE that probably won't make the team.

Par.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

FRED DAVIS

Megalomaniac but well connected Radio sports dweeb Colin Cowherd reported today that the probable reason why Fred Davis slipped to the second round was sources said he isnt' dedicated enough and was "late to meetings."

Of course Colin has this whole theory about how USC offensive players suck in the pros because LA doesn't have a pro team, but it's a Red Flag, and USC offensive playes have tended to undeperform lately.

Posted by: corkczar | April 28, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Those complaining about the O Line should consider that we were actually playing with our depth last year.

This year our starters are back, putting Heyer, Fabini, and Wade all back on the bench.

I think any team that can make the playoffs without two of their starting O Linemen for almost the entire season has pretty good depth.

The Skins can afford to wait a year to address that position. Not to mention that 6 O Lineman were gone before #21, and 8 before the second round.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Amazing that people can find the names of the UDFA's but the "Insider" has no idea or insight!! Joke!

Posted by: Synder's taller than me!!!! | April 28, 2008 11:19 AM

The incompetence of Jason La Canfora should "amaze" nobody. We have come to expect it from the outsider.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

He may run the same style, but that doesn't mean he'll be just as effective. I don't think our defense will be "bad", but I don't expect to see as good or better results than GWill had with this defense, especially since no impact players were added.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 11:16 AM

psp, I don't get this logic. If its the same players, playing the same scheme, and they're doing it in the same style, why would it be different than what happened previously?

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Hey dcsween, thank you. To answer some of your concerns, I don't have disinterest in Yoder. I actually think he is solid. But, it can't be denied that he is getting a little bit older (30), and he was very available to all the other teams when we signed him. I just think it wouldn't hurt to get someone younger and begin to groom them, but I also disagree with the Davis pick. I also agree the safety from UCLA seems exciting; however, there is a reason he lasted until the 7th round. We needed to address it earlier considering the lack of depth and injuries we have. As far as Frost is concerned, you're right I guess. As long as we just signed him to a small contract without a decent bonus, he is dispensable. But, no one else drafted a punter. I just felt like we kind of wasted a pick on a guy we probably could have signed as a free agent. But, I am not one of the haters. Overall, I like the draft. But, you would be a little bit blindly optimistic if you didn't question a few of these moves. It is as clear as day we needed OL depth, and we barely addressed it. Hope it all works out though.

Posted by: carnold | April 28, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

other teammates commented on Melvin as well. WR Tomaras Peterson of Mississippi State recalled a game when he played agaist Melvin. "people talk about how fast he is, and thats true, but he also can jump. I remeber late in the third quarter I ran a fly route and my QB threw me a jump ball. I am 6'6 and Melvins like 5'9 or 5'8, something like that, he's pretty short. Anyways, the balls in the air and I leap as high as I can to catch it, but melvin snaggs it before it even gets to me. I aint never seen anybody jump that high, it was like he used a trampolene or something. I told the coaches they should ask to have his equipment checked becuase thats just not natural." When asked how high he thought Melvin had leaped on that play, Peterson replied "I aint real shure but it was pretty darn high, I mean I can touch the top of the backboard and I jumped as high as I could, and Melvins crotch was where my head was. I mean damn man, his balls were in my face, that aint never happened to me before, and I played basketball in high school. His balls were actually in my face"

Posted by: DWC | April 27, 2008 9:54 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Jason La-blah-blah....

You really are unbelievable with the angle you take towards this team all the time... You started coming around towareds the end of the season last year after ST passed and we started rolling... but it didn't take long for you to starte throwing bombs at this team and FO again....

I am convinced no matter how this draft turned out you would have found some way to spin it negative... Even if they had a spectacular draft, filling every need you would have said.... well too little too late.... they should have done 1 or 2 yrs ago....

Take a chill pill and cut your personal bias or dislike for this organization out of your professional work...

IT IS SO OLD!

Posted by: EinVB | April 28, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

initially i was very upset with the way the draft ended up for us. trading down to the second round was awesome. i didn't like our second trade, as it basically cost us a chance at dre moore.

i also though taking 2 wr and a pass-catching te in the second was overkill, since calais cambell was there for us. but many a scout has been very down on cambell, so maybe he wasn't the guy to take. and if our offense really likes to use 2 te sets a lot, then having davis would be key. my only real experience with the wc offense was when i was living in sf in the mid 90s. but i know that holmgren used a lot of 2 te sets both in seattle and greenbay.

as for 2 receivers, when we have 2 highly paid ones already on the roster, my brother made a good point about that: what other receivers do we have? thrash and mix? so we have 2 highly paid receivers who can never stay healthy. and even when they are healthy, they've only had two 1000+ yard seasons out of a combined 13. and they both turn 29 this summer. we're about to install a pass-first offense (it might take a full season to ease into it). so receivers are a definite need. i mean, as good as seattle's defense and offensive line has been, they've been pursuing an answer at receiver for years now.

and we all know you can't plug every hole a team has in one offseason. the skins have tried that before and failed, miserably. so maybe this year, we took receivers, and hopefully fixed that whole for years to come. next year, we might be in position to help the o-line, or d-line. they key is we brought in all these guys via the draft, and not in the first round. makes them a lot more affordable.

Posted by: JC | April 28, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Jason,

*************************************
*************************************
Why do you still cover the 'Skins? It's clear you do not like the franchise nor the rabid fan base. PLEASE, no comments about how you're simply

You either enjoy sticking it to the franchise and the fans, or this has got to be driving you crazy.

I think both you and the rabid fans would be much better off if you covered something else.

On the other hand, I understand you're building your career, and you're sucking it up to move ahead-- there's a lot more money in the NFL than any other sport in the US, so that's where to make your mark as a reporter and writer.

But is it worth it?

Posted by: Mike | April 28, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

carnold, don't get me wrong ... my draft watch started out depressed when the Skins didn't trade up to get Brandon Albert. On the other hand, I'm pleased that they didn't lock up a bunch of roster money in the unhappy (though excellent) receivers in Cinci or Arizona.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

I just felt like we kind of wasted a pick on a guy we probably could have signed as a free agent.

Posted by: carnold | April 28, 2008 11:22 AM

Dude, get real. If we draft him he can only sign with us. If he's a free agent he can sign with 31 other teams. What's wrong with a sure thing, compared to odds of 1 in 32?

This is how we lost Henderson to the Vikings. We didn't draft him in the seventh.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

corky, I heard that as well, and just those few moments reminded me why I can't stand Colin Cowherd... he compared the relative success in the NFL of guys from this USC dynasty and guys from the U-Miami dynasty of the 80's-90's, and his theory was that more of the U-Miami guys came from backgrounds of extreme poverty (esp from Dade County) and therefore were hungrier and harder workers their entire careers. Whereas more of the USC guys are recruited from relatively prosperous southern CA and are lazier, softer, more inclined to get by on talent than hard work. I love theories like this! Colin Cowherd, man does he suck.

So, we'll see if this TE we picked has poor work habits or whatever.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

psp, I don't get this logic. If its the same players, playing the same scheme, and they're doing it in the same style, why would it be different than what happened previously?

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 11:22 AM

playcalling, adjustments, game-planning, etc. all these will be different with Blache around as compared to GWill. there's a reason GWill is so highly regarded as a D-coordinator. again, i don't want to blow it out of proportion and make it seem like all is lost on defense, but i simply don't think blache will be as successful as williams. maybe instead of being a top-5 to top-10 defense, we'll slip to top-10 to top-15. i hope i'm wrong with that, but i have a lot of respect for GWill and think it's unfair to put such high expectations on blache.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

F Colin Cowherd......dudz a fool

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Defense wins titles. Look at last year's Giants. They have two studs at DE and beat the best offense on the planet--with pressure. Jacksonville, who already has a stellar defense, drafted DE with their first and second pick. Danny and Vinny got rid of Gregg Willaims, now at Jacksonville, so they can pursue their silly fantasy. Springs and Smoot are old, Rogers can't cover and is still hurt. They need pressure by the D-line to help them out. Further, their O-line is old and will get hurt again. Campbell will not have time find any of these slow receivers that they drafted.

Posted by: why | April 28, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I'm a Jasno defender often. First off let me say the sick Getalifers who truly hate the fact that anyone dares be anything but a Home Town Jocksniffer are in need of serious therapy--or a job in politics.

That said, JLC went overboard on his negativism here. It was a hit jobk, and not a very good one, at that. read like it was written by an angry reporter steaming over past insults and past Idiocies at the FA level. For WHAT IT WAS, it wasn't a bad draft.

SIX REASONS.

REASON ONE: Marty Schottenheimer...Wait wha...?

Most Marty haters hated him because he stuck with his lousy QB and lousy OC for the entire season. As Marty later showed with SD, he had a plan that took time. Had Idiot boy not grabbed his shiney new Spurrier Toy, Marty would haev fixed THOSE ISSUES the next year.

NO WAY the skins contend this year. so they rebuild the Skill guys now, and go heavy into linemen next year.

REASON TWO: They suck at acquiring receivers. By drafting three of 'em high, the Infinite Law of Typing Monkeys Theory increases the chances that one of these guys, at least, will be outstanding.

REASON THREE: They got at least one OLman who should stick. He's a #3 pick and huge and versatile. Buges will coach him up. Mebbe Boatman or anotehr FA will stick, too.

REASON FOUR: Hmmm. Tyson, the DB sounds intriguing. And Horton sounds like a Special teams monster and designated hitter.

REASON FIVE: They DIDN"T TRADE away any of next year's draft picks!!! The Best news yet.

REASON SIX: If it totally blows, maybe NOW Snyder will see thru cerrato's shorcomings and hire a REAL GM.


Posted by: Corkczar | April 28, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Lay off on JLC!! Don't like what he writes, go the f$## somewhere else!! You bunch of little B####$$ cryin' all the time. Hiding behind your keyboards.

Bong that!

Posted by: Smiley | April 28, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Blanche will be fine, I love that dude! I actually wish he was HC! and Zorn was O-Cord...

But whateves, we'll know around November 31st!

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

So, we'll see if this TE we picked has poor work habits or whatever.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 11:30 AM

Do you think a guy's work habits might improve if you raise his salary from zero to $1.7 million? I know mine would, though probably not by the full amount.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Not "at the FA level" you bad typing idiot "at the FO Level"

Posted by: Corkczar | April 28, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

JLC, was there anything about the Redskins draft that you actually liked?

It just seems odd that most draft experts are giving the Redskins a good grade while you are tearing them a new one.

Nothing wrong with looking at it with a critical eye, but your argument would hold up better if you also outlined what you liked about the Skins' draft.

Posted by: Mattyk | April 28, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

the consensus:

wawawawawawawawawawawawa
"JLC talks bad about my Redskins..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"We did draft well..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Your hate is getting old, JLC..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Why don't you cover another team Jasno..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Why didn't we get a pass rusher..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Fred Davis???"
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
I don't like our picks vs. "What do you know about drafting" vs. "Mel Kiper is clueless when it comes to drafting" to "If Mel said we did well, then I have to agree with him..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Look at the Giants..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"7-9"
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"8-8"
wawawawawawawawawa
"9-7"
wawawawawawawawawwawa
"4-12"
aaaaaaahhhhhhwawawawawawawawawawawawawawa

Posted by: sure are alot of geeks here | April 28, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Campbell will not have time find any of these slow receivers that they drafted.

Posted by: why | April 28, 2008 11:34 AM

And last year he couldn't even see the little runt receivers who were shorter than Snyder.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Could someone get Smiley a helmet and a drool cup, please?! He must have left them on the short bus this morning.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Jason-
I doubt F. Davis (TE) will have as big of an impact as C. Campbell (DE). We just need some warm bodies at the DE that are under 30 and could surprise us.

Let's play out the Davis pick. Best scenario- he is a stud, but what do we do w/ Cooley? 2 TE sets? That takes Sellers off the field who is already a stud.

If we drafted Campbell he'd at least be a run stuffer that we need! Let's face it, the NFC East requires a loaded defense (one that we don't have right now regardless of how great our new WRs are).

Posted by: Tim | April 28, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Lay off on JLC!! Don't like what he writes, go the f$## somewhere else!! You bunch of little B####$$ cryin' all the time. Hiding behind your keyboards.

Bong that!

Posted by: Smiley | April 28, 2008 11:35 AM

dude, your name is Smiley. Chill out.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

new 2nd tight end...
i sure will miss the awesomely potent force of collins to yoder.

Posted by: azskin | April 28, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

anonymous friend at 11:35am, I can't say for sure that my work habits would improve if you raised my salary by $1.7MM, but I'd be willing to try.

Would I still have blog privileges?

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Vikings signed Henderson?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

REASON SEVEN: I'm a deuche.

Posted by: not corkczar | April 28, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

J-Lac is the death of a bright idea and a good day.

Posted by: Gnome | April 28, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Re: Colt Brennan

There's a lot of baggage and there's also a lot of potential. Skins are taking a gamble on a 70+% completion QB whose numbers may be entirely a product of the run and shoot system, his accuracy and football intelligence, or some combination of the two.

He probably won't make it or will bounce around the league for a couple of years as a backup/emergency QB, but that's what happens to most 6th round QB selections who are not Tom Brady. Had to get too worked up attacking the Skins FO about this pick.

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Nate, dude, I think the $1.7M is to compensate you for cutting the blogging down to two hours a day. They'd probably go to $2.0M if you'd give it up altogether, buy your agent would insist on getting it as a signing bonus while they held out to make it an incentive.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

And last year he couldn't even see the little runt receivers who were shorter than Snyder.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 11:38 AM

Funny how Brunell and Collins didn't seem to have that problem. And the same "runt" holds the franchise record for receiving yards in a season. Please stop with your idiotic statements. If you're going to analyze/criticize, try to use some valid arguments.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Lets stop with the C Campbell talk, the guy is fat, slow and week he is going to get pushed all over the field, plus he is a 3-4 guy incase you have'nt noticed we run a 4-3.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Jla no football for you. Stay with Hockey.

Any player you F*** pick was not picked before you. So using you twisted logic all picks are for players that dropped into your lap an must suck. Vinny dropped down because he knew there guy was not going to be picked at 21 - that is smart not stupid.

The TE seemed a reach.

The only real issue is that we did not take a DL in the first four picks.

Problem no every down DE (on the board) who could stop the run and rush the passer. Big and slow, small and fast. We have lots of small fast DL.

Also we may trade Moss or ARE for a need so the story is not over.

Posted by: mul | April 28, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

one argument I am not buying is that Vinny/Dan are obsessed with the flashy pick over solid football picks. Picking the punter was not flashy, popular, but it did feel a huge need with the best punter in the draft. I think vinny/dan are learning, they had a laspse in judgement but the Bengals bailed them out.

Posted by: DWC | April 28, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

got TE Fred Davis for free.

Posted by: the_squire | April 28, 2008 11:11 AM

He wasn't free. They gave up their third round pick. The Falcons used it to take a WR, Harry Douglas. But the 'Skins could have gotten a TE (Craig Stevens), the beast S that the Ravens got (Zbikowski) or a good DT or OLB.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 11:18 AM


Probably right on that, but it does give Campbell and extra target on certain plays in Zorn's offense against NFC East defenses.

Interesting NOTE is that the TE Marcus Pollard from Seattle, Zorn's old team was a free agent. He also used to play for the Colts. He just got signed last week. Why didn't the Skins make a play for him????? Then we could have used the Fred Davis pick on another player.

I looked at the players selected right after Fred Davis....we could have had one of these guys if the Skins picked up Zorn's old veteran TE:

48 - Fred Davis TE (USC)
50 - Calais Campbell DE (Miami)
52 - Quentin Groves DE (Auburn)
54 - Jason Jones DE (E Michigan)
59 - Mike Pollack C (Arizona St)
60 - Patrick Lee CB (Auburn)
62 - Terrence Wheatley CB (Colorado)
63 - Terrell Thomas CB (USC)

So, yeah...if I had the keys, I would have got veteran to pair with our Pro Bowl TE Cooley...Marcus Pollard would have fit that bill with a veteran minimum salary...then used the Fred Davis pick on a more pressing need like Defensive/Offensive Line or Corner Back.


My 2 Cents

Posted by: the_squire | April 28, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Also we may trade Moss or ARE for a need so the story is not over.

Posted by: mul | April 28, 2008 11:48 AM

We will never trade them because of the cap hit. Not to mention that there's not much market for either of them. They will both play out their present contracts and become free agents.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

USC is not in the affluent suburbs of Los Angeles. It is on the edge of the ghetto (South Central). Glamorous it isn't.

Posted by: Cali Guy | April 28, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

I knew it! mul's a DANBOT!!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I tend to think it wasn't that bad a draft for the Redskins. I would have gone with one receiver and picked up more linemen, though. I'm not quite as high on the team's performance as Mel Kiper, but I think it was solid.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Psps,

The great Moss and ARE you defending had 5 touchdowns last year. Moss has some kind of injury every year and so does ARE. I am not bashing them but do not make it look like we have two all pro's at WR.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

anonymous friend at 11:44am, I would imagine the boosters would kick in something extra to make me go away. I'm listening...

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Was Brennan THE QB they wanted?

Posted by: Tony | April 28, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Was Brennan THE QB they wanted?

Posted by: Tony | April 28, 2008 11:55 AM

No

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

The homers are out in force today. It's not JLC who has disappointed fans and run the worst front office over the past 10 years. That's the Redskins. So forgive JLC if he hasn't bought into another season of Redskins hype.

Posted by: anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Cali Guy, Cowherd was talking about the players' backgrounds, not the school location. (I agree that one visit to the Coliseum was more than enough for me.)

I do think, though, that part of his argument was that USC guys are more coddled than U-Miami guys, saying the U-Miami athletic facilities are notoriously run-down and they never sell out their stadium and etc.

Again, it was a typically broad, specious argument made by a guy I loathe, but it was related to one of our draftees, which is why I followed up about it after corky's comment.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

+++ I love theories like this! Colin Cowherd, man does he suck.

So, we'll see if this TE we picked has poor work habits or whatever.

-Nate in the PDX++++


If he sucks so much why were you listening?

I think that USC THEORY is hooey, but he can be entertaining, funny and right on, too. I listen while on my walk and switch back and forth between him Dan Patrick and Stephanie Miller.

Stephanie loves the redskins draft, by the way.

Posted by: corkczar | April 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I wish everyone would stop bashing Jasno. What would you really have? A Redskins yes-man? One hand clapping? Snyder's blog?

Maybe I don't agree with everything Jasno writes but he is committed to giving us a "non-column" view from an unbending, unapologetic lens. I appreciate that.

And you know what, he's probably right. We didn't get the DL that we needed. And that's a major problem. I'm guessing we'll address it in next year's draft (along with the Oline) but when Jasno writes that the NFL is a game won in the trenches, he's not just blowing smoke up the collective tail pipe. There are plenty of example in the NFC East alone to bear that out. And it is totally accurate to point out that, ONCE AGAIN, the Skins went against the grain of commonly accepted wisdom and we've all seen how well that turned out in the past.

That being said, I still like getting the 2 WRs. I like the trade down. I like the DB. I even like the Punter. I just don't much like getting another TE and a QB who probably wouldn't have been drafted (or could have been had in the 7th) when we had real needs on the Dline.

But the problem ain't Jasno. The problem is in the Front Office and that's not gonna change any time soon.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

now im no expert like the rest of you, apparently because i have a job, but it seems to me that all vinnydan did was pick the top position players available...
2WR's-among top 3 in draft
TE-best in draft
G-best in division I
P-best in draft

Seems like if they had the chance to take the best player in the draft at any position, no matter the need, they went for it. In other words, given the choice of taking the best TE or the 5-6 best DE, they took the TE. This is even if the DE was more of a need and indeed even if the DE>TE as far as who is actually worth more as a player.

I'm not sure if this is a good idea or a bad one, but it's certainly an interesting concept.

Posted by: azskin | April 28, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Great Broadcasting Moment of the Weekend: Watching TheCindy react visibly to the mention of Herman Edwards, Head Coach of her formerly-beloved Chiefs.

Posted by: not Tom Shales | April 28, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

squire, we haven't had terrific luck with FA TEs to complement Cooley over the past few years, have we? Haven't we signed a couple of dudes who didn't work out? Fauria and someone else?

I have to say our luck drafting "receiving TEs" has been pretty good... Jamie Asher, Stephen Alexander, Chris Cooley. Three hits in like 14 years! Sweet.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Agree to disagree.

Posted by: Ron Burgundy | April 28, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I love it - the draft played out the way it did because DanVinny wanted to give the hamsters something to chew on for the next several months - what other reason could there be for the picks they made?

Posted by: John D in Houston | April 28, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

If we would have picked up OL and DL or DE's and a WR, I wonder what the post would have been about? Should I guess:

"While the redskins bolstered their lines, they neglected their most pressing need at WR with an aging receiver corps only time will tell if this draft was a success. One receiver may not be enough to help them considering the injuries that has plagued the current corps".

Blah!!! Everything positive that you say JLC is followed by a "BUT". Stop it already.

Posted by: Toady | April 28, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Psps,

The great Moss and ARE you defending had 5 touchdowns last year. Moss has some kind of injury every year and so does ARE. I am not bashing them but do not make it look like we have two all pro's at WR.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 11:53 AM

kmdp,

All I'm saying is the exact same argument can be made for the offensive-line. What makes you so certain that Thomas and Jansen will make through the year, but Moss and ARE will not? Again, it comes down to what the team feels is more important, the lines or the playmakers? It's obvious to me that both Snyder and Cerrato value the latter. That's not the way I think a football team should be built.

And ARE has had one injury in his 6 year career (or however long he's been in the league). It just happened to come at a time when every other WR on the roster was hurt too. Just plain bad luck. He is not injury-prone from 1 injury.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

If you have a high draft pick, you do not dive down to get a player of need. That's IDIOCY.

Take the best available, work him out a bit, and then if you like, trade him!

Davis is the perfect example. We have Cooley, but Davis has more value than any lineman had at his position. If the Skins choose, they could keep him, or if someone needs a TE, they could trade the dude for picks next year or a player this year. Same with Kelly. Or, if Kelly works out, another WR.

I'm THRILLED the skins drafted two WRs. We didn't have a TD from a WR last year until five minutes after the season was over. If you don't say that's worth a couple of picks, I don't know what you're smoking. Especially with Zorn's offense coming in.

JLC, man, people say don't come to this blog if we don't like your angle. That's bull. This isn't the JLC blog, this is the Washington Post blog. That's the reason we come, and that's the standard you have to live up to. If you want to find reasons to be negative, do it on your own time. When it's legit, it's welcome. When it's every single post, especially in the face of common sense, and lacking any insider information at all, it gets really old, really fast.

Posted by: Skudge | April 28, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Hi all. It reads like a 60/40 split - in noise and abuse terms at least - in favo(u)r of the Skins draft. That's got to be a win for the FO this year. I suppose only time will tell from here.

I guess the first milestone in these guys' careers is making the actual roster (not the 1850 guy one) so you can pick your personal favo(u)rites and cheer them on through the camps now.

I hope that the 'just a guy' factor is minimised and they get a chance to contribute.

Anyone wondering if Vinny picks up the phone to call Parcells, oops sorry, Jeff Ireland now? I'm thinking the chance of Taylor getting traded anywhere are receding fast now, they won't get the 1st they want and if they don't get a 1st rounder, why bother?

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

corky, I'm only in the car for about five minutes, so I grab whatever listen is available. Sometimes it's Czaban (yes, we get his syndicated show in PDX) and sometimes it's Cowherd and sometimes it's the Mike & Mike Show. Usually a few minutes are tolerable and sometimes there's Actual News.

What can I say, it's my only regular exposure to sports media aside from the interwebs.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Next year's 3rd for Jason Taylor!

Posted by: etrod | April 28, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat--

Do you drive around Northern Virginia with a license plate that declares you "1 DOLFAN"? Or are you just #2 Dolfan hereabouts?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

5 mins in the car? get a bicycle... i thought you northwesterners cared about the environment.

Posted by: azskin | April 28, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Let's take the bright outlook. Maybe J Soup and these new weapons will be able to outscore the rest of the NFC East. Since every other team in our division seems to be trying to bulk up their defenses, we take the opposite approach and bulk up our offense and hope that we can implement a new offense and successfully outscore the very solid defensive teams. After all, Offense wins championships, right?

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

JLC is wrong.

Why did the Redskins only blowout one opponant last year and constantly find themselves in very close games? Because it was shown last year that we needed more weapons on offense. Portis can not do this alone. When our opponants know were going to go to El or Cooley we become too predictable and we needed young talented players to take the heat off our current players. I refuse to believe that an offense that scores alot of points, doesn't help our defense as much as adding a DLineman would.

Posted by: skinsfan69 | April 28, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

++++Let's play out the Davis pick. Best scenario- he is a stud, but what do we do w/ Cooley? 2 TE sets? That takes Sellers off the field who is already a stud.++++

back in the day a guy named Gibbs used to occasionally feature THREE TE sets. Seemed to work out okay.

Hey ZORN is making the burgers, he gets to flavor the meat.

If he doesn't want TWO pass catching TEs on the field at the same time, chances are Davis would have been passed over, even by dolts like Vin and Danny.

Come on this will be a HELLUVA offense. TWO TE's will demand safety or CB help, as LBs can't cover them alone.

FIRST DOWN

Portis at RB, two TE's WRs are Davis, ARE and Moss.

NEXT DOWN:

Portis at RB, Cooley, ARE, Kelly, MOSS and DAVIS receiving.

NEXT DOWN

Sellers RB TWO TEs Kelly and Moss


Now how do you cover that?

Run a hurry up NO HUDDLE and they have to cover that with a BASE DEFENSE...or a NICKLE, which opens up the run.

This will be an EXCITING offense.


Posted by: corkczar | April 28, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, agree, and I wish it were that simple, azskin, but the bike route would be more than twice as long... also it's usually dark and sometimes rainy and I'm, what's the word for it?, lazy.

Hey, I take mass transit half the time, so there's that.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

"But, once again, the Redskins raised eyebrows around the league with their approach."

Hmm and Mel Kiper rated us in the top 3 highest. There was only one team higher than us and that was the Chiefs. The Browns tied us... hmmm - Raised Eye-Brows you say?

Mel Kiper:
"Washington Redskins: GRADE: B+
They traded out of the first round and still were able to get three offensive weapons in the second round: wide receivers Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly and tight end Fred Davis. Chad Rinehart is a versatile offensive lineman who can play guard or tackle. In the sixth round, Georgia Tech's Durant Brooks was the first -- and only -- punter drafted. He has a strong leg and should compete for the starting job (30 of his 65 punts were 50 yards or longer). Hawaii QB Colt Brennan went in the sixth round. He isn't very big, but he has some ability. What hurt Brennan was his performance in the Sugar Bowl and the Senior Bowl practices, and the system he played in, which allowed him to put up big numbers. Safety Christopher Horton will be a good backup and special teams player. The only thing the Redskins didn't get was a pass-rushing defensive end."

Posted by: Toady | April 28, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

The reason we had only two touchdowns out of the wide receiver position had more to do with the QB, and the o-line than anything else.

If I'm not mistaken, Todd Collins was the one to throw that first TD pass of 2007.

Having these big wide outs is nice, but only a part of the equation. What happens if, when our lineman start to drop like flies again?

What then?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Do you drive around Northern Virginia with a license plate that declares you "1 DOLFAN"? Or are you just #2 Dolfan hereabouts?

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 12:05 PM

Not me anon, but I think I have seen that vehicle on the Dulles toll road. When I used to commute regularly it always surprised me how many cars I'd see with Fins stickers.

I would think all Fins fans qualify as #2, don't we?

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

you make this team sound like it was 1-15 last season.

please quit.

you suck.

and "Nate in the PDX" - you suck the worst. Please leave.

Posted by: Please quit | April 28, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

"Moss and Randle El remain effective starters."

This quote from somewhere up above would cast doubt on the Redskins drafting in the 2nd round, IF IT WAS TRUE. However, at no time in 2007 were Moss and ARE effective starters at the same time. Injuries plagued both players for most of the year. There is no guarantee that the same thing won't be true again in 2008. To not draft accordingly would have been foolish. What good is an offensive plan and playbook if you can't use them?

Drafting wide receivers was smart. Single coverage of WRs/playmakers is going to have a dramatic change on the offense. Twin TEs who can catch are going to bedevil opponents. Opposing safeties and CBs are going to look stupid sneaking into the box when there are twin 4.4 receivers going downdield. (Moss and Thomas). Joe Gibbs wishes he could have had this draft. It would remind him alot of the days of Monk, Clark, Sanders, Didier, Warren and others.

It will be nice to not have to depend on Thrash and McCardell in 2008. Thankfully they were available for part of 2007. But in 2008, there has been a significant upgrade. If all the draftees work out perfectly, then it will be a problem to be dealt with later. Until then, try enjoying an offense that FINALLY has playmaking options.

Posted by: Nona | April 28, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why you guys come on here and b!tch about JLaC's blog. That's like me posting on Fox News about them being too conservative. If you don't like his analysis, go the f*ck somewhere else (like back to ES). He's the one talking to the league sources.

Posted by: JD | April 28, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Current List of Undrafted Free Agent Signings
Posted by: PennSkinsFan on Monday, April 28th, 2008
Here you go, what we know for now ...

Offensive Line:

OG Kerry Brown, Appalachian State

OT Devin Clark, New Mexico

OT Shannon Boatman, Florida State

C Kyle DeVan, Oregon State

WIDE RECEIVER

Horace Grant, St. Olaf

SAFETY

Kevin Mitchell, Illinois

CORNERBACK

Matterral Richardson, Arkansas

DEFENSIVE LINE

Dorian Smith, Oregon State

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

What happens if, when our lineman start to drop like flies again?

What then?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:10 PM

We've got it covered. With two stud TE's there are plenty of targets for Soups.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

corkczar,

FIRST DOWN

Portis at RB, two TE's WRs are Davis, ARE and Moss.
xxxSo here we run cooley and yoder as TE's, Davis as a wideout?xxx

NEXT DOWN:

Portis at RB, Cooley, ARE, Kelly, MOSS and DAVIS receiving.
xxxAnd here 5 reciever spread with the TEs acting as recievers? Or are they still working as tight ends?xxx

And as long as you're making up formations, who not use Thomas?

Posted by: azskin | April 28, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Byner left.

Jla has no sources; everybody knows that.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

you make this team sound like it was 1-15 last season.

please quit.

Posted by: Please quit | April 28, 2008 12:12 PM

Hey 1-15, that's MY team's claim to fame!! We're even going to see if we can give it a run for it's money again this year.

And anyone bashing Nate should hang their head in shame.

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Jla has no sources; everybody knows that.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 12:16 PM

Jla needs no sources. He has his own little bitter mind to rely upon.

Sources are wayyy too much work.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

hey,

kiper handed out 1 A grade and 3 B+ grades...and we were one of them. so the moves made sense that we made.

no team walks away w/ all their needs met. it all comes down to the RFAs...to start adding youth and depth.

Posted by: topdog | April 28, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I said no WR at 21.

They listened, kinda...

Posted by: No WR at 21 | April 28, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Stunning, how some many commentators are praising the Redskins and yet Jason's punching away again. His negative spin gets old sometimes.

Jason, you can't build a team with one draft anyway. Does it really matter where they start? Sure, addressing the lines should be the first priority, but maybe they didn't like any of the guys that much.

Posted by: Dave | April 28, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

If I run into any of you Nate on the street, Lord help me...

Nate is cool poppy!

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I've got to go along with the jlc bashing. Did you see the story in this morning's paper where the Skins were ripped for taking CB Justin Tryon in the 4th Round?

"At least two teams had Tryon graded as a fifth-round pick, league sources said."

Considering cornerbacks were flying off the board and even the mighty Patriots took a corner (Terrrence Wheatley) before his graded time, why give the Redskins all the grief? And who are these so-called league sources you keep quoting? I'd bet they are Ravens and/or Eagles officials. What was the Ravens record last year? Did the Eagles finish ahead of the Skins and make the playoffs? I must of missed it!

If you want to bash the Skins, it should be for taking Colt Brennan in the 6th round. If you saw the Senior Bowl, you know no NFL team should have drafted this guy. According to Vinnie Cerrato in his interview on ESPN, the Skins were just taking the best talent on their draft board and had Brennan graded higher than the 6th round. If that's true, you need to fire the whole scouting department and start over! Vinnie, maybe you can sell that sh-t to Dan Snyder, but I'm not buying it! You could have traded down and taken Brennan with the last pick of the draft! If head coach Zorn is as busy as jlc says (and I believe him), he's not going to have time to coach Brennan to the extent he needs it to just make it as a 3rd-string NFL QB. I'd rather Zorn spend that time with Campbell who is actually going to get the lion's share of playing time.

But apart from Brennan, I like what the Skins did in this draft even though they did not get a d-lineman until late.

Posted by: rb | April 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I love that you guys call JC = Soups...

The drafting of 2 WR's and the signing of Jerome Mathis sounds like Randle El is the odd man out.

You dont draft 2 taller WR's and not start one of them over ARE. Not in this offense.

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the constructive criticism, Please quit. Duly noted.

You, though, you're doing a heckuva job. Keep on truckin,' brother!

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I meant Nate bashers.

If I run into any of you Nate bashers, Lord help me.

still early out here on the WC.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

For what it's worth (2 cents retail value), here's my take:

Great move by the Skins to parlay that 1st rounder into two 2nd rounders and more. I almost believed they knew what they were doing.

Great pick in Devin Thomas. Top receiver on most draft boards. Great value. Then things got crazy.

A tight end in round 2? I know you have to get more depth at the position, but with your second pick? Horrible decision, regardless of whatever the draft board says. I wonder what other voices were talking to Vinny on Saturday. You can't tell me there wasn't a quality lineman on either side of the ball worthy of taking at that spot.

And then Malcolm Kelly? Questionable character aside, Limas Sweed is likely to be the better player. And that's just putting aside the fact that you don't get 3 guys who essentially serve the same purpose in the same damn round. How many years of mediocre pass rush do we have to suffer through before someone in the FO realizes we need to address the D-line? It's like the CPU on Madden made the picks in the second round.

This ruined what had promise of being the best draft in years for this team. I've said it a million times: you build a team from the line of scrimmage back. And once again, the Skins have put all their fortunes in the wrong position.

Second rounders should start for you. This team just spent 3 first day picks on guys who won't start this season (barring injury), and likely not next season either.

And let's stop killing JLC over constructive criticism of the Skins. That's his job. If you want your beat reporter to slurp the team and give you fluff pieces about how great your team is even though they do NOTHING on the field to warrant it, read the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 28, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Agreed on mowing down JLA, Brownie. His post brings up a number of key points, and no spelling mistakes this time either.

"You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft."

Amen...

"But to me you look to fortify your trenches when you can, and especially if it's needed to the extent it is in Washington."

Praise...

:Again, all play dependent positions - if the line and the QB and the running game aren't right, your stable of receivers ain't going to be doing much, no matter how good they are."

Darn tootin'...


Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I like the way the draft played out. Yeah, it would have been nice to select DE Merling with the 34th pick, but he was already gone... As a consolation, they selected the top ranked WR; which coincidently was the highest position of need for the Skins and possibly the only opening available for a new starter.

They might have lost Merling in the trade, but it did allow them to pick up the top ranked TE in the country -- Fred Davis -- who was the best receiver at USC last year. The WCO utilizes a 2-TE set for short yardage and goal line formations. I think defensive coordinators will have a hard time defending both Cooley and Davis. Both are big, catch the ball, make positive YAC, and block well. Davis should also help the running game -- I highly doubt we'll see too many 8-men-in-a-box defenses after they are burned by the TE formations. BTW, Yoder is a good backup TE -- the Skins require at least three TEs on the roster and the 7the round pick from last year (Ecker) will have some serious competition.

The Skins were able to pick up Kelly with their original selection at #51. Good job! Some people had the Skins picking him at #21. His highlight films reminded me of Art Monk! He looked pretty smooth catching the fades, outs, and crossing routes. I suspect he may be the starter next year over Thomas; joining Moss and ARE in the three WR sets.

In the later rounds, the Skins selected possible (future) backups at RG/T, #3 CB, SS, FS, and QB! All positions of need. The only reach might have been the DE Jackson, who could be destined for the practice squad, since I suspect Wilson is a better player at his point.

And finally, you have to love the punter pick. He had 68 punts inside the 20 yard line in TWO years. When was the last time we saw the Skins hit a 76 yard punt from the end-zone? And I'm not talking about Frost kicking one 20 yards, then rolling another 30... This guy has some serious hang time. Speaking of Frost, he is a below average punter who lacks consistency. He was also a liability holding kicks -- particularly on trick or bungled plays. Hopefully, the Skins can use one the QBs or ex-QBs (ARE or Portis) as a holder this year.

Posted by: Siris | April 28, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

We have good O-Line depth as shown last year we played with two backups the entire season. We also added a good player in the draft. What we do not have is any depth at WR. I think the O-Line will be very strong this year even if someone goes down because the backups played alot last year.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Another way of looking at the draft is that the Redskins drafted as if they were a team with no holes. When Pittsburg took the RB in the 1st round everyone praised it because, all things being even, the Steelers are awfully close to the Super Bowl as is and a second RB is a luxury they can afford (and will help).

But does anyone here really think the Redskins are close to the Super Bowl? I know, I know, we beat the Giants and they won the whole thing. Never mind that the Giants team we played featured an Eli Manning throwing the ball all over the field and about 50 dropped passes.

My point is, I look at our team and think that the playoffs is possible. We've got the right peices. But I don't see us as Super Bowl material just yet. Too many holes, too many older players, too many injury concerns. We don't have the luxury that the Steelers have to take a redundant, if top, talent. We have little depth on the Dline and we needed an infusion of youth and talent. Didn't happen.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

I will admit that I have no idea whether these are the right picks, although I can understand the logic. Time will tell. The only thing that concerns me from Jlc post is whether the Redskins are stacking their draft board because they inflate the ratings of receivers vs. linemen. That's something that may be a valid criticism and Snyder and company need to look at in their self-evaluation . [This is not a negative statement. Everybody has biases. You could just as easily stack your draft board for DL which wouldn't be good either...something that someone like Marty Schottenheimer may have done].

Posted by: Prodigal Son | April 28, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Chris Samuels made it through 2007 relatively unscathed. The odds of this happening again are not real good.

Jon Jansen, well... My man is coming off two major injuries.

Kendall has arthritic knees.

That guy Wade took up primary residence in the training room last season, alternating between the hot and cold tubs.

Rabach, our center, for whom we have no bonafide backup, had a rough go too.


Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

you suck

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else think DannyBoy and VC thought the Eagles would pick Fred Davis at #49?

I also wonder if we originally planned on picking Calais Campbell at #51...only to be beat to the punch by Arizona at #50.

Posted by: Glass Half Full? | April 28, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Kmdp,

To argue that out O-line is deep is a stretch.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Many JLC supporters here who think that HE is the reason for this blog. The WaPo knows that they will get the hits on this blog even w/out JLC. What they are mad about is that the Skins have effectively shut them out. So they have this negitave agenda to try to turn fans against them.

"eyebrow raising"?? This was a good draft. What I want to know from all of you JLC supporters are the names of the DE/DL picks we should have selected. All I hear is we should have gotten a stud DE/DL. Give me their names.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Hey Chia Pet,

It is deeper than the WR position.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I applaud the move. We drafted the best players available. I dont see a problem with that. With the logic of having to many players, I guess that means teams should not have quality backup quaterbacks?

Posted by: Redskins 001 | April 28, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Colt Brennan sucks because of the Senior Bowl?

Isn't that like grading a pro player on a single performance at the Pro Bowl?

Brennan looks to have tons of upside, and with a coach like Zorn, could be at least a quality backup.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Curzon,

They do not know any names because like me and you they were watching the draft on the sofa, not working for an NFL team.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

"Eyebrow raising" doesn't mean "negative" or "awful". It just means some people have looked at the Skins draft and said, "hmmm". Jasno said it could work out. But pointing out that there is legitimate criticism circulated about the draft strategy shouldn't be itself criticized.

You pretend to think that you know what the WaPo thinks about this blog and Jasno in general. Now you're blowing smoke up our tailpipes. Jasno does a good job. The blog is booming. Why would the Post even consider changing him?

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Must be this guy, from ESPN.com...

At just 259 pounds, Groves isn't big enough to hold his ground when teams run at him. The opposition will target him whenever he's on the field. However, he could make an immediate impact as a situational pass-rusher. He is very quick around the corner and shows great closing speed once he gets a clear path to the quarterback. Although he hasn't developed wide arsenal of pass-rush moves at this point, he has the athletic ability and upper-body strength to do so in the future.

Probably not this guy, also from ESPN...

Campbell has great size for a defensive end and he's a decent tackler, so he has the potential to develop into a run-stopper. He also has long arms to get his hands up and knock passes down when he doesn't get to the quarterback. That's important because we don't see him getting to the quarterback very often. Although he's an adequate bull-rusher, he doesn't have great lateral agility or closing speed.

Posted by: Glass Half Full? | April 28, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

I agree. Those who are critical should give the name of the impact D-lineman they would have selected and with which pick. This isn't Madden. The Redskins can't just create the prospect they are looking for.

There wasn't anybody available in Rd 2 better than Carter and probably nobody better than Daniels. You are arguing they should have selected a DE that they don't expect to even play (in fact, that they HOPE doesn't play). Instead they drafted two WRs who will be on the field every time there is a 4 wide set (there will be lots of that) and a TE who can go out every time there is a two TE set or if they flex Cooley out in the slot (both will happen a lot). These are good picks guys. There appears to be a plan.

Posted by: Mike H. | April 28, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

My typically half-assed, uninformed doubts about Brennan can be summed up with the following: Timmy Chang, Ty Detmer, Andre Ware.

But that's countered by the fact that I'm a big fan of his great-grampa Walter. Big, big fan.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

In 2007, time after time( hear Cindy Lauper singing,) opposing QB's carved up our secondary like a Thanksgiving turkey.

In week 12, Bruce Gradowski was the culprit.

What was done in this draft to address our needs at corner and DL?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

I've seen Kelly play every collegiate game and he will be a nice addition. He may not be the fastest receiver, but has great hands and is able to get open. Excellent addition with him and Devin Thomas are receivers will be set for years.

Posted by: Redskins 001 | April 28, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Calais Campbell was there. Quentan Groves was there. Jason Jones was there. All DE.

You can argue about their talents, but don't suggest for one moment there weren't legit Dline prospects for the taking when we took the TE.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Colt Brennan just had hip surgery.

That doesn't sound good. Anyone know the details of that injury?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Hey Chia Pet,

It is deeper than the WR position.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 12:44 PM

Agree with chia and brownwood. the only reason it's deeper is because the FO decided to let loose the vets from last year (Caldwell and Mccardell). When ARE and Moss went down, Mccardell/Thrash/Caldwell played just as admirably as Heyer and Fabini did on the line. And remember, Heyer and Fabini were FORCED into action, because there was nobody else after Jansen, Thomas, and Wade went down. We almost had to bring in Alexander at one point. And those two (Fabini/Heyer) had some serious growing pains through the season, which were eventually punctuated by having Patrick Kerney eat us alive on the right side of the line in the playoffs. To say that we are deep on the o-line is a definite stretch. Just because they started last year doesn't mean that they SHOULD have been starting.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

17 TD's by WR's in the last TWO SEASONS.

Doesn't that say enough??? There was a need for two wr's, not just one.

Posted by: tbarz | April 28, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

The key to a good draft? Getting guys that make it in the NFL. Sounds simple, but its obviously tough. Plenty of #1 picks never work out well, others are so-so players. In a lot of ways its a numbers game. Select 2 guys and hope 1 works.

Since I can't judge talent from the draft, my comments are limited to the positions selected. On that, I think the Skins just missed. The OL line is the biggest need since you'll need to replace 3 starters in the next few years (Kendall, Jansen and Thomas) and the depth is modest. And OL usually need 2-3 years to develop. DL is always a position of need since most teams rotate players and go 6-7 deep.

LB was thin. WR is also a problem and you can justify a WR pick, though its been notoriously difficult position to predict if the player will make it as a pro (heck, Jerry Rice was the 3rd WR picked in his draft class).

But its hard to justify the picks of 2 WRs at the top of the draft (I could see 1), TE, punter and QB. Skins should have stuck with WR, OL, DL and LB.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

If I run into any of you Nate bashers, Lord help me.
Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:22 PM

-- I have a pair of Nate bashers right here!

Posted by: Pamela Anderson | April 28, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

We drafted a CB in JT Tryon who projects to a starter. Even JLC admits Doughty is a starter in this league. Laron is sick. Springs is still very good, Smoot is adequate, and Rogers was developing well before the injury so who known.

By the way, we had the seventh best pass defense in the league last year. Are you sure you aren't thinking about 2006?

Posted by: Mike H. | April 28, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Homer's next door neighbor on the other side, the one opposite Ned Flanders?

Nate Bashers.

Posted by: Simpsons Trivia | April 28, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

The Skins are going to sign 12 more undrafted FAs today. That should cover the existing holes -- backups at LG and C -- and additional depth at DE, DT, and LB.

I think the publicized DL issues were just draft deception. Clearly they planned to take Merling if he was available, but the defense was pretty good last year. As a team the Skins were ranked 8th in total defense, 4th against the rush, and 16th against the pass. That was better than both the Cowboys and Eagles; and only one position lower than the Giants.

Could they use a backup and potential replacement for Daniels? Yeah, but we have no idea if that player isn't already on the roster or FA radar. Campbell was available at #48, but evidently his previous DL coach wasn't that high on him and there was a lot of discussion that he's only suitable for a 3-4 defense in the pros. I guess we'll find out in the future if the Skins missed any DE talent that was available after the 48th pick of the draft this year.

Posted by: Siris | April 28, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Mike,

Stop it with the "we has the such and such ranked this and that last season" talk.

Did you watch the same games I did, in 2007, and in 2006?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Nobcentral - the question is were any of those guys worthy of a second round pick? The answer is no. They took a TE because he was a second round (some say first) talent. You dont take a 3rd or 4th round DE in the second round (and pay 2nd round $$ for them). You just don't.

Teams that draft for need DO NOT WIN.

Posted by: Mike H. | April 28, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand the Fred Davis pick. Skins just paid Chris Cooley a ton of $s, Todd Yoder (and Glen Koslowski) seem to be capable backups, and Mike Sellers (remember him?) could even fill in a bit here. Even if Fred Davis turns out to be a great player, short of a trade, I don't see how this significantly helps the Skins

Guess we'll see how things play out in 2008/2009

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:40 AM

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:55 AM

Im guessing that the FO wants to have that A. Crumpler mismatch with Davis's size and hands. This can only help C. Cooley get open more, something we ALL want. Cuz once Cooley gets the ball, he's hard to bring down.

They also have 2 Wr's now, instead of 1 to try and cultivate.

Lets not forget the year the consensus was that we needed DT help and it turns out we had found talent with Gholston and Alexander.

Same thing on the OL with Heyer. Our experienced coaches know what they can't coach. Im sure they have it all under wraps. I'm gaining more and more confidence in Vinny C.

HAIL!!!

Posted by: gimmydatpot | April 28, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Chia, its a good snapshot. OUr secondary wasn't that bad. Put it this way, if the football fairy (ROMO) came to me today and offered to guarantee the 7th ranked pass D next year rather than take our chances I would take it in a heart beat. I bet you would too.

Posted by: Mike H. | April 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

The 2007 Redskins pass defense was suspect, at best, and the pass rush was anemic, with occassional signs of life, but NOT when it mattered most, like in Seattle.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

OK, that is some serious Kool Aid drinking Sirls...

When you say Kelly's highlight film reminded you of Art Monk ... well, those are rose colored glasses. Of course if Kelly catches 1,000 passes for the Skins ... I'll be the first to say you were right ...

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse


Jason - your statements - "You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft" - is a good example of why you sit on a couch with a pen. ANYONE can second guess AFTER 2 years of looking back and say so-and-so was available.

The Redskins for a change have drafted 10 players - where at least 8 of them will be on the roster on opening day.

Posted by: John Fosback | April 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

JLC you really need to move on partner. Everyone gives the Skins a positive grade yet you continue to bash them.

Posted by: jm220 | April 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

JLC is just using his contrarian point-of-view to enable him to parlay this lame blog into something else soon in some other city. His thinly veiled attempts to slant everything to the negative is so obvious it's laughable.

Everybody else I've read throughout the internet have applauded the Redskins draft this year but jlc keeps rehashing and crafting his views such that no matter what picks were made he slams the skins. Now I don't like every pick that the skins made but to be so one-sidedly bitter and negative shows how agenda-driven this clown is.

Mark my words, he will be onto other things soon as he is looking to "Parlay" this gig into something better. We will then be given another wp schlub who will begin bashing anew. Can you say nunyo?

JLC, you're a tool. Why don't you use your mind sometimes instead of spouting the wp company line.

Posted by: toolbox | April 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Eek, I didn't realize I reacted quite so visibly. I was pretty down on Edwards last fall ("Herm the Germ," I frequently muttered as I held my head in my hands and wept bitter tears). I'm prepared to give him a second chance now.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Considering that all of the DE's that I mentioned ended up going in the 2nd, I'd say they were considered 2nd round talent. As to drafting for need vs. best player available, there's obviously a relevant debate there. But look at the Jags. They got no pass rush against the Pats and Brady went 26-28. So they drafted to DEs. They identified a need and went after it. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

That being said, it's not like any pick is guaranteed to work out. We've already seen criticism that the TE was late to meetings and was considered lazy by the USC coaches. True or false, who knows. Maybe he'll turn out to be a total stud and I'll have to gladly eat my words. But I saw the Pats game last year. We got demolished. No pass rush and the best QBs will pick you apart. That's what's happened. I'm with the Gibbs, Giants, Parcells school of thought on this one. You build your team from the trenches. And the last 15? years the Skins have not done that. I worry about our team getting over the hump from good to great without better line play on both sides of the ball.

(And, as I said previously, I have no problem with the WRs. I only object to taking a TE we don't need and a QB who would have been there in the 7th.)

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

"In week 12, Bruce Gradowski was the culprit."

9/19 for 106 yds.
a 19 yd. drive for a TD
a 2 yd. drive for a FG
a 9 yd. drive for a FG
a 2 yd. drive for a FG
a 29 yd. drive for a FG

all before halftime.
perhaps turnovers were the story?

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Why all the raves for the trade-downs? We traded down three times and ended up with one more than our origianal 9. A 1 a 3 and a 5 for two 2's and a 4. What's so great about that? At best it's a wash!

Posted by: bzsegal | April 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

A B+ grade from the schlubbs at espn just means we got quality players, it does not mean we drafted what the team needed the most. I think most would agree that building a teams starts with your lines. The skins are stuck in neutral every year because they think they are close to contending, they're not. We need to start all over with the rebuilding process at that means getting young at all positions, not just WR/TE.

Posted by: dan | April 28, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Bottom line, if 5-6 of the drafted players become solid contributors, it was a good draft. If 3-4 becomes starters, it was a good draft. If 2 become Pro Bowl level players, it was a good draft. If 1 becomes a HOF, it was a good draft.

I'm not thrilled with the positions they picked, but the real answer is '?'

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Take a look a Kelly's highlights on hailredskins.com:

http://www.hailredskins.com/index.php?paged=2


Posted by: Siris | April 28, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

touche, cload.

good point on that Bucs loss.

crow eaten, but still think we would have benefited from a better pass rush, in any event...

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Brennan had a slight tear of his labrum. Yes, there's one of those in each hip as well as in each shoulder...ball and socket joints...Priest Holmes tore his and the same surgeon fixed him up.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Hey cload,

Since you have the stats on that week 12 loss to the Bucs...

Who was responsible for those costly turnovers?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Cindy.

That detail on Colt's hip injury does not make me feel much better.

Colt is younger, though. Perhaps he'll heal up better than Priest did.

Serious injury, nonetheless.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I know you would whine if we picked only one receiver and it turned out to be a bust. I would rather use TWO second rounders and find one stud receiver than trade TWO first rounders for chad johnson. No thank you. Isn't it way too early to criticize? So, lets say we picked a DE instead of Kelly. Would you be able to guarantee that the DE wouldn't be a bust? At least by drafting two WR we increased the probability of success for at least one position.

Posted by: bobby | April 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse


Jasno - dont become another Pasquerelli - by trying to pass off your oponions/prejudices as if the rest of the world is saying it ... as in "But, once again, the Redskins raised eyebrows around the league with their approach.."

Most of the so-called 'pundits' have actually been praising the Redskins draft.

Posted by: Rich Douglas | April 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Man.. where were all you skins lovers yesterday.. all i heard yesterday was supporting jlc, bashing the picks and hating.. now all I see is bashing jlc for agreeing with you all.. so which is it? also, if you read his articles vs. blog posts - they are generally well balanced and mostly devoid of subjectivity. Blogs are *supposed* to be opinions..

While not a fan of FO efforts in the Snyder era, I do think he actually is doing everything he can to make the team a winner (unlike in Cincy, say) - wish he was less control freak/FFL'ish and would get a real GM in to run, but that didn't work out so well with Marty, either did it? It's his team, he can do what he wants and I won't fault him for trying hard.. may critisize for his approach or methods.. certainly NOT a guy I'd ever want to work for, but he is trying..

Definitely gotta be concerned with some decisions made - wideout was/is a need, but they do need OL/DL help and Secondary too - shouldn't have used all 3 top picks on ONE position given the glaring needs at Safety/CB and OL/DL - but can understand if no real studs you take the best available - most draftniks like Mel, etc. basically said after the top 3-5 guys on DL/OL no one stood out.. and no stud WR so trade down made sense, but can't believe a comparable DL/OL guy wasn't avail when they took Fred or Kelly... but I'm no expert. So in defense of JLC I think he's just posting his concerns/thoughts on the process but also saying you won't really know for 2-3 years if any of these guys pan out (or the other guys JLC talks about either)..

Posted by: urallschizo | April 28, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

At least by drafting two WR we increased the probability of success for at least one position.

Posted by: bobby | April 28, 2008 1:18 PM

And drop the probability at the other position to 0. I guess it's what you prefer. Would you be satisfied if only one area of need was improved from last season?

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

We averaged 20.875ppg last year, our offense was so bad for most of the year... if we up that average from 20.875 to 25... It drastically changes the outcome of last season. 4 more wins.

I think our offense has taken 2 steps forward and our defense will take one step back... what does that mean?

10-6

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I'm going to defend the Davis pick-up. A lot of you seem to forget that TE was basically the only position we could get to score for us in the red zone, but after a few weeks EVERYONE in the league knew this, and Cooley was triple covered in that area. Now we have possibly the best TE in the draft from a school that faces tough competition regularly. Davis should take some of the heat off Cooley near the endzone, and with his size will provide decent support in the run game.

Should we have gotten a DE? Well, had Campbell been there at 51 maybe, but otherwise we didn't compromise or reach to get a player. A lot of the DEs drafted yesterday will be cut in June/July/August anyway, and we can take a look at them then, or otherwise build through FA, but I'm happy with who we did draft. There's lot of talent left in the undrafted kids too... Defensive end isn't a flashy position usually, so it's not quite as easy to predict long-term success, but it looks like we've already contacted guys we can coach up and groom to be role players if not more.

Posted by: Modicum of Sanity | April 28, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Sirls, I seem to recall Monk burning the best DBs in the NFL, making critical 3rd downs, catching in traffic and blocking CBs to the ground.

And you refer me to Kelly's practice footage? With no defenders? And it reminds you of Monk?

Sirls, please send me some of what you are smoking, my job review is coming up and I want to give some to my boss :)

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

I'll just say the FO is leaving a little too much to chance for my taste.

I expect that Zorn and the FO realize that they've got to make offense the priority, since it will be completely retooled.

This is not your daddies Redskins that that they are building here. And maybe that's why I'm having some trouble with it. Not big trouble, but there is a lot of risk ahead in 2008.

We might win 10 games, we might win 4.

Posted by: Stumped | April 28, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Everybody here is bashing JLC for supposedly bashing the skins with his "raised eyebrows" comment. Seriously, how many people here didn't have raised eyebrows after the Davis pick? A TE in the 2nd round? We didn't even have TE on our radar. And then a 3rd pass-catcher just 3 picks later? Come on now. You guys just love hating JLC.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking a guy that young shouldn't be tearing his hip.
Back to the Cheeves....this is the 25th anniversary of TODD BLACKLEDGE.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

"You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft"

Do you do any actual research or reporting JLC? Look at the last say 5 years of the draft the ONLY DE you have heard of and has any serious impact from rounds 3-6 is Jared Allen. 1 guy in 5 years...sounds like a sure thing to me. Sorry I pulled this from the top secret site www.nfl.com. I know that is too complicated for you to find and do research on.


Posted by: Sec 126 | April 28, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Eek, I didn't realize I reacted quite so visibly. I was pretty down on Edwards last fall ("Herm the Germ," I frequently muttered as I held my head in my hands and wept bitter tears). I'm prepared to give him a second chance now.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 1:07 PM

I think you're being very kind to Herm "offense killer" Edwards, Cindy.

He inherited an offense with arguably the #1 TE (Gonzalez), #1 RB (Johnson) and a 4,000yd a year QB (Green) and in only two seasons transformed them from one of the most fun to watch (as long as you didn't watch the defensive side of the game) to a 4-12 team that couldn't buy a touchdown.

I was sort of disappointed that he left the Jets as he was taking them on the same downward trajectory until he left, managing to waste the best years of Curtis Martin in the same way that he will with LJ - until he trades him I suppose.

It requires quite a special talent to be that bad as a head coach. Great guy, really bad coach.

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

"I think our offense has taken 2 steps forward and our defense will take one step back... what does that mean?"

"10-6."

--------------

Really?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Love the various draft opinions....lovers and haters....no matter on which side you fall , you gotta wait to see how it turns out...given the camps and preseason you will hear and see which guys are making an impression (good or bad) from there over the course of next year or two (in some cases) you will know if we found some guys who can play.....its all about assembling as many good players as you can...never fall in love with the guys on your team...they are all replaceable with (few exceptions) and the idea of a good FO is too replace them, so as your building a team BPA is a good thing.... since as i have said many times i don't see a position were we can't use an upgrade getting three pass recievers who had first round grades in the 2nd sounds ok with me ( for now).....its an offensive league, to be a consistent contender you need to score mid 20's or higher .....been since norvil since we been able to do that....coaching and QB...you guys know my mantra....it all starts with that, then you have something to build around for next 10 yrs, thats where the line, o and then d and all the other pieces that you guys are correctly clamoring for come in ...so that you can be a complete team that contends......

Posted by: Old School | April 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

I guess no one liked the DL, S and LB picks from the past two drafts?

Let's see -- with limited draft picks -- the Skins discovered four starters in FS (Landry), LB (McIntosh), DT (Montgomery), and SS (Doughty). They found situational players in DL,OL,ST (Alexander) and DE (Wilson). Plus backups and depth with T (Heyer), DT (Gloston), LB (Blades), CB (Westbrook), CB (Eubanks), and DE (Buzbee).

Notice a trend there -- with the exception of Heyer -- they are all 1st or 2nd year defensive players who should continue to improve.

Posted by: Siris | April 28, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Do you do any actual research or reporting JLC? Look at the last say 5 years of the draft the ONLY DE you have heard of and has any serious impact from rounds 3-6 is Jared Allen. 1 guy in 5 years...sounds like a sure thing to me. Sorry I pulled this from the top secret site www.nfl.com. I know that is too complicated for you to find and do research on.


Posted by: Sec 126 | April 28, 2008 1:25 PM

trent cole, justin tuck. do some more research before you bash others.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Redcoat. He's a very nice guy; can't he kill someone else's team?

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I agree that the O-Line and D-Line were glaring needs that needed to be addressed, but six offensive lineman were drafted before the 21st pick... two more reaches were made after that in the first round. We just missed out on Merling and Laws (technically Campbell too, but I was not sold on that guy anyway) by a pick or two in the second.
I'm not sure what people wanted them to do. I certainly did not want them reach for guy just to say they tried to address the position. All problems cannot be fixed in one draft... let's hope we have better luck in the '09 draft.

Posted by: Matt | April 28, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

i agree with building through the lines, but u have to remember how many early picks on both OL and Dl turn out to be a bust.

We have two old, experienced line coaches(Blanche now DC), that prefer working class guys. Tough, smart, dudes who have strong motors. Let them do what they've been doing. JB did good with Heyer last year. Yes he's still developing, but he did good overall. Alexander is another versatile gem.

So, when they have some guys that the current administration has been cultivating, it makes perfect sense not to load up on lineman. And instead, take shots at skill players early, filled depth with 4, and 5 and 7...got the best punter! A longtime problem that we couldnt address cuz we never had any extra picks. Throw in a 3rd string QB and speed rushing DE, with ST help from the S's...

The only need they didnt address to me is OLB. Maybe the have something in mind or those two UFA's have potential...

Posted by: gimmydatpot | April 28, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

@Chia Pet

Just opinion... so yes really, that is my opinion...

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

While I have been reading this blog for a couple of years now, I have never bothered to stick my nose in it. Today seems like a good day. It seems to me that JLC has been more than correct in reading the FO as a bunch of idiots. Having said that, I believe the FO is starting to turn from Danny's Fantasy Football Team to slowly becoming a true ownership. And I do mean slowly!!

I completely see the need for some WR targets because they weren't scoring in the Red Zone, not to mention the health of the only two productive receivers. Furthermore, everyone has bashed the drafting of a second TE, which would defintely needed for a 2 TE set in Zorn's WC offense. I agree that Yoder had some moments of brilliance last season, but I don't believe he can do what Cooley does day to day.

Finally, I believe that this blog is for JLC to write his opinions, whereas his column is for the facts. Everyone needs to just get over themselves. If anyone here were experts, they wouldn't have time to write in this blog. They would be working in the Redskins FO.

Posted by: Saxatac66 | April 28, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Redskins | Team signs W. Gilberry
Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:17:18 -0700

Josh Buchanan, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports the Washington Redskins signed undrafted rookie free-agent DL Wallace Gilberry (Alabama). Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Redskins | Team signs D. Marquez
Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:15:53 -0700

Josh Buchanan, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports the Washington Redskins signed undrafted rookie free-agent OT Darren Marquez (Southern Illinois). Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Help me out. A couple of people have said that Thomas/Kelly wont be starting? Is this just a matter of semantics as far as the team will only be starting 3 receivers, or what gives?

Are some people really thinking that either Kelly or Thomas or Davis wont be contributing to this team this coming season? Unless they're injured, I cannot fathom this scenario.

I guess I'm done with the whole, good picks / bad picks routine. It is what it is, and there is no changing it now. Lets see how they do once the games get started.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

THIS WAS A GOOD VALUE DRAFT with probably the LEAST AMOUNT OF TALENT IN ANY DRAFT IN RECENT MEMORY!!! SO LIMIT YOUR RISKS BY ADDING PICKS!!! THATS WHAT VINNY DID! I've never been a Vinny fan, but he did a good job. Instead of Merling ( graded as a mid 1st rd'er) they picked up 3, THREE, DID I Say 3,... yes 3 picks that all 32 teams until last week had graded as 1st Rd talent.

Posted by: CLEGG | April 28, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

I'm fine with the Skins picking up two WR's in the 2nd round. Both were considered 1st round material during the season. Slow times knocked Kelly's stock down. Jerry Rice was not fast and he managed to catch a few balls. Not that I'm comparing him to Rice at all, just that speed isn't everything. I'm a little perplexed with our "braintrust" though drafting a TE, Fred Davis with our second 2nd round pick, with Cooley just getting a big new contract. He will be a backup and with the new West Coast offense he will see time in the 2 TE sets. I would think that you hope to draft starters or kids to get significant playing time in the 2nd round not backups to All-Pro's. It's hilarious to read that Synder was out to see all of the top talent in the draft's workouts. What does this dork know about football talent? The only football he ever played or was involved in was video games I'm sure. What could he possibly offer as far as evaluating talent? ... "Ummm that guy looks big". Stick to writing fat checks. This isn't fantasy football, Danny-boy.

Posted by: RichinFrederick | April 28, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Cindy,

Are you still single?

My dad is on the market; great guy looking for a great girl...

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

After watching Kelly's and Thomas' highlights, I think Kelly is going to be the better receiver. He looked like a better route runner, and made gresat adjustments to the ball. Plus he was great on thr jump ball plays. Most of Thomas' catches were when he was wide open, or had just ran past the defence, wich is good, but given JC's past performances, Kelly's ability to make flowing adjustments to a pass will serve him well this year. Also, unlike Moss and ARE, it will be hard for JC to overthrow either of these receivers considering their height and leaping ability.

Posted by: DWC | April 28, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Redcoat. He's a very nice guy; can't he kill someone else's team?

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 1:29 PM

As far as I'm concerned I'd be happy if he would split his coaching time between the Jets, Bills and Patriots. That would do me just fine!!

What did you make of the whole Jared Allen thing Cindy?

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

RichinFrederick? Jerry Rice wasn't fast? Are you really Darrell Green?

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

10 36 a.m. post brings up a good point.
"Last year the 'Skins averaged 20.9 points per game, tied for 18th in the league. Four more points per game would have raised them to ninth -- right between the Browns and the Steelers. New England was first with 36.8 and the Cowboys were second with 28.4."

We were ranked towards the top in RedZone scoring, but unfortunately, many were FG's and not TD's!!!! Now we have 3 2nd rd players to add as a RedZone threat!!! Height. Look at the Giants and Pla"s"tico!!!

Posted by: CLEGG | April 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I agree that Yoder had some moments of brilliance last season, but I don't believe he can do what Cooley does day to day.

Posted by: Saxatac66 | April 28, 2008 1:31 PM

Of course Yoder can't do what Cooley does. Few TEs have the pass receiving skills Cooley does. But Yoder is a blocking TE. That said, he made some memorable plays down the field in '07 and one wonders if they utilized him fully. Had the OL not been banged up we undoubtedly would have seen better production from all the ball handlers.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Do you do any actual research or reporting JLC? Look at the last say 5 years of the draft the ONLY DE you have heard of and has any serious impact from rounds 3-6 is Jared Allen. 1 guy in 5 years...sounds like a sure thing to me. Sorry I pulled this from the top secret site www.nfl.com. I know that is too complicated for you to find and do research on.


Posted by: Sec 126 | April 28, 2008 1:25 PM

You're an idiot.

DE taken in rounds 3-7 that have made an impact:

Brian Robinson, 4th
Robaire Smith, 6th
Adalius Thomas, 6th
Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, 5th
Derrick Burgess, 3rd
Aaron Kampman, 5th
Elvis Dumervil, 4th
Mark Anderson, 5th
Trent Cole, 5th
Justin Tuck, 3rd
Shaun Phillips, 4th
Jared Allen, 4th
Bobby McCray, 7th
Robert Mathis, 5th
Alex Brown, 4th

The list goes on.

See, there's this great thing called the internets and it has this top secret website called pro-football-reference.com that is extremely fast a revealing idiotic statements like yours.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

To take one small step off my JLC bashing soap box I will say I love the pick of Colt Brennan and you all should too:

1) A young QB to add to the mix, but not enough pedigree to threaten JC or TC. Wow a skins team with a clear cut #1, #2 and #3 QB refreshing

2) He and his skills are different and no one knows if he will work out in the NFL. I would rather use a late round pick on guy who is either going to shock folks or be a bust...than a guy who is a way less talented version of the standard QB. We had that guy last year in Jordan Palmer. Same package as Carson, just not as good.

3) His strengths are quick decision making and release...sounds like skills that are needed in the WCO

4) We don't need him now...he can spend a year on IR or the practice sqaud. We will be fine with JC, TC and any schlub to carry a clipboard. (hey, hopefully LaCantreporta will be looking for a new job). Basically we need to just develop a solid back-up for 2010 when TC can't walk anymore...I can see him being capable of that.

Posted by: Sec 126 | April 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Who was responsible for those costly turnovers?
Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:15 PM
From Skins @ Bucs:

1. On the first offensive play, Moss catches then fumbles. Returned to the 19. Three RUNS later, it's 7-0.
2. One false start, one incomplete pass, then on 2nd-and 15, Portis fumbles at the 25.
(Four offensive plays, two fumbles and one penalty, for those of you keeping track)
3. Campbell fumbles while being sacked at the beginning of the 2nd quarter.
4. Portis fumbles again at the skins 30.

First five series, four turnovers, all within easy scoring range, and the defense held them to 16 points.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Chia

I'm fairly sure Priest's surgery was BEFORE the year he set all sorts of scoring records.

Adam

Thanks, Cindy.

That detail on Colt's hip injury does not make me feel much better.

Colt is younger, though. Perhaps he'll heal up better than Priest did.

Serious injury, nonetheless.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:18 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

For everyone who says that taking two receivers in the same round and building your team through "weapons" I only have two words for you...


Detroit Lions

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

I was kind of hoping that there were two words in succession that I would never again have to read up here ... Priest ... Holmes.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Jerry Rice was a 4.5-4.6 40 guy on the track but he played way faster. he is the poster child for football speed.

I think that's the point that Rich is trying to make.

Posted by: etrod | April 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, cload; very telling.

What conclusions can be drawn from that game, if any?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell (DC): Hey Jeremy, two questions for you. 1)How many TD's will I throw next year? and 2)Why do bad things happen to good people?

SportsNation Jeremy Green: (1:23 PM ET ) TD-wise, I don't know. I know no QB was happier to wake up this morning than Campbell. He has 2 of the best 3 WRs in the draft and probably the best TE. It's a new offensive system that everyone can learn together at the same time. This is a phenomenal draft for Washington. They are going to be explosive next year.

looks like people who know a little about football like our draft just fine.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 28, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I've always liked big WRs. The 'move the chains' guys with great hands are a huge part of success. But I've seen Kelly compared to both Rice and Monk on this blog. Both of those guys were very fast.

Of course, you can be SLOW and still be effective. John Madden once said of his top WR "you can time his 100yard dash with a calendar." And Fred Belitnikoff is in the Hall.

You've got to have a lot of abilities to be a successful WR, and that is why its been so hard to figure out which WRs are going to succeed.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I would hazard a guess and say a torn labrum in a hip is more serious for a RB who needs to cut and things of that nature than a QB who kinda just goes back, stands, and throws.

But I'm no medic and Colt is the running type isn't he? Well, I'm betting he never plays for us.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Even when doing the right thing the team does the wrong thing, im with jlc here, moss and randel el aren't marty booker and ted gin they are good receivers who had an injury filled year. By doing this your creating a separation of rookies and vets

Posted by: godhelpus | April 28, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Um, maybe its a semantic issue on the meaning of "contending" but I think the teams that make the playoffs in a given year are "close to contending." Some might even call the playoff teams "contenders," but I won't go that far.

The Skins have made the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years despite catastrophic injuries concentrated on specific positions (e.g., WR in 2005 and OL in 2007). The Skins are, at least, CLOSE to contending. We might argue about what pieces are missing, but they have clearly been doing a lot right the last few years.

Posted by: Mike H. | April 28, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

SMC -- perfect smackdown

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Mel Kiper, who has dedicated his life to knowing the draft, and ALL things draft related, and is considered the FORE-MOST expert on things of a draft nature. ...

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 8:51 AM

I want to join the chorus (is there a chorus yet?) that suggests some credibility on the part of the Screaming Head, Mel Kiper. He has dedicated his life to knowing the MOCK DRAFT ... he is the FORE-LEAST expert on the actual draft.

I give much more credence to guys like Mayock, Pat Kirwan, or even the wise turtle, John Clayton.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Priest Holmes tore his labrum before he broke the NFL rushing crown. It was his neck issues that ended his career.

So if that is an indicator to Brennan's career trajectory you may be in luck!

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

I have no idea what Rice's 40 time was, but I live in the Bay Area and saw a ton of Rice. He was very very fast. Unless you are Darrell Green, Rice could blow by you.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

But I'm no medic and Colt is the running type isn't he? Well, I'm betting he never plays for us.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 1:44 PM

He has about three years to recuperate.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

we finally have an offense with weapons and weapons with depth. Now when ARE and Santanna have their hamstring, toe, groin or other ailments we have weapons still. If Cooley ever gets hurt, we have a talented TE behind him and we had Ladell behind CP already. If I'm not mistaken we a returning our top 10 defense and our Oline has 4 strong backups behind a good starting 5. It was an incredible draft for us.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 28, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

First five series, four turnovers, all within easy scoring range, and the defense held them to 16 points.


Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 1:39 PM

Overall the D was good last year. Especially against the run. If anything where we need help is on pass defense.

But let's also remember that the SB Champs/chumps' pass rush did not beat the Skins in the last game we played them. Our OL was not beat up by them.

And I would argue that the game against the pats was more because we were not playing very good on offense and gave our D way too many snaps against a very good offense.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Fine...some of those guys are good players that were overlooked, but even that list is full of some marginal talents, guys who do not actually play DE which was what I said or guys who were drafted more than 5 years ago.

okay so less than 15 sucesses in the last half decade...still no where near convinced that is the can't lose that your pal JLC feels it is.

Posted by: Sec 126 | April 28, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps we can all agree that tearing a labrum is NOT a good thing?

Heal well, Colt, heal well.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

This looks like the kind of draft that starts at the line of scrimmage. I'm not praising it, I'm just saying this might look like what Jasno might have been pining for ...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker#tab:dt-by-team|team-phi

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Oline has 4 strong backups behind a good starting 5.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 28, 2008 1:49 PM

If by 4 strong backups you mean we have 1 young draftee along with 3 guys who struggled mightily last season, then yes, I agree with your post. And I still love how people love to rip ARE and Santana for injuries, but give a free pass to Thomas and Jansen.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Hey, I've been away from the blog due to waaayy too much work (and no fun). When did the registration requirements go away?

Posted by: nojunk4me | April 28, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

And I would argue that the game against the pats was more because we were not playing very good on offense and gave our D way too many snaps against a very good offense.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 1:50 PM


Well the answer to that ineffective offensive performance was not to draft more rookie wide-receivers. The answer would've been to get young O-linemen who can pass protect and/or open running lanes.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

so 4 wide outs and 2 tight ends is going to be the new norm? we are going to have 3 rookie starters? we are going to have 2 rookies running consistent routes along side randle-el and moss? we are going to have a rookie tight end consistently stealing time from a pro bowler? wow, maybe jlc knows something i don't, but i didn't realize that 2nd and 3rd round picks were expected to be starters with significant playing time in their first year. i always thought most rookies took some special teams time and then contributed on an ad hoc basis, then maybe in their 2nd or 3rd year became starters. looks like the skins will be bucking the trend and starting 3 rookies.

Posted by: jlc=poop | April 28, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, cload; very telling.
What conclusions can be drawn from that game, if any?
Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:42 PM

First, that you shouldn't try to draw too much from any one game.
Second, that was the worst half of football I can recall Saint Joe ever presiding over. And each time the Defense held, you sorta thought "wow, dodged a bullet there, we're still in it", only to be crushed by another turnover three plays later.
Third, JC threw two picks at the end of the game, both when we were in FG range. And Portis failed on a 4th-and-1 at the TB 4 in the third quarter. Just needed one of those to work out for us...
Finally, really, really, really missed having Sean Taylor at that game. Were he in Tampa, and not Miami.........

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm THRILLED the skins drafted two WRs. We didn't have a TD from a WR last year until five minutes after the season was over. If you don't say that's worth a couple of picks, I don't know what you're smoking. Especially with Zorn's offense coming in.

Posted by: Skudge | April 28, 2008 12:01 PM


Amen, brother! I'm liking this draft the more I look at it.

Posted by: Alan | April 28, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

And I would argue that the game against the pats was more because we were not playing very good on offense and gave our D way too many snaps against a very good offense.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 1:50 PM


Good point.

Man, that game was brutal to watch; been trying to reconcile losing that game the way we did, playing the Gints as well as we did and the Gints beating the Pats in the SB.


Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Well the answer to that ineffective offensive performance was not to draft more rookie wide-receivers. The answer would've been to get young O-linemen who can pass protect and/or open running lanes.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 1:57 PM

No, the answer to that was our scotch taped line learning to play well together. Once that happened, even with the continuing injuries, we picked it up later in the season.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

jlc is a beast. why does everything with you little girls have to be the best or worst ever. think what you think but shut the hell up

Posted by: seth allen | April 28, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Each week, Herm coaches a different team...hmmmmm....Jared Allen is a lot to give up (when I first heard, I threw up in my mouth a little), but I'm cool with it now. I also liked your Dolphins' draft, 'Coat.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

And I would argue that the game against the pats was more because we were not playing very good on offense and gave our D way too many snaps against a very good offense.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 1:50 PM

The thing that stuck out most to me about the Pats game last year was GG refusing to alter the defensive game plan and rush the passer. He just sat back in a deep zone and let Brady pick us apart.

Posted by: etrod | April 28, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

No, the answer to that was our scotch taped line learning to play well together. Once that happened, even with the continuing injuries, we picked it up later in the season.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 2:00 PM

Only to get demolished in the playoffs. When it mattered most, in the biggest game of the year, it wasn't the "smurfs" who failed us. It was the offensive line. How this can be ignored, I have no clue.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

etrod, agree with GG not making any adjustments in this game. Pats took advantage of what we gave them.

Same as bein inside the 5 yard line and sending out the jumbo package. Who did not know what we were going to run?

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

cload,

I hear that safety, Horton, we just picked up might be sleeper; one who hits real hard.

I think he injured quite a few people in college, and UCLA plays in a strong division.

Will he replace #21(rip)?

Not likely, but it would be nice if he was even 80% the player...If he turns out to be no better than Alvin Walton (3rd round pick, #75 overall,) that would be pretty sweet too; dude could hit.

Landry and Horton....

Ouch.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Pats game was the magic storm -- beat up offensive line encouraged the Pats to attack, Soup did not play well, but the strategy on defense was to just slow them down... if Smoot had been playing, and Rogers' knee didn't crumble within the first ten plays, then we might've had a fighting chance.
Once it got out of control, it got ugly.
And the only thing to do was stand there and take it like a man.
Or go for Brady's knees and never leave New England alive.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Only to get demolished in the playoffs. When it mattered most, in the biggest game of the year, it wasn't the "smurfs" who failed us. It was the offensive line. How this can be ignored, I have no clue.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 2:04 PM

Give some credit on this to Collin's lack of arm strenth. What turned this game around with an interception.

I have to look at this as the glass half full and do not beleive that we will have the OL injuries that we had last year. And yes, the glass is half full with the kool-aid I drink.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

For example on how to build a CHAMPIONSHIP team (not just a 1st round exit team)

2007 NE Patriots starting OL:

Matt Light - Drafted by Patriots in 2nd
Logan Mankins- Drafted by Patriots in 1st
Dan Koppen- Drafted by Patriots in 5th
Stephen Neal - Un-Signed FA by Patriots
Nick Kaczur - Drafted by Patriots in 3rd...


Anyone see a trend here? Draft your Offensive linemen well, groom them to be starters to protect your franchise quarterback. Then go out and get wide receivers once they have PROVEN that they can be productive in this league.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

There is always one or two receivers drafted that prove to be "big time". Forget what the pundits say, about a draft being "weak" at a position. A draft board cannot measure a players heart. If one of the three recievers is big-time, the offensive lineman is decent, and one of the 2nd day players work-out, the skins did fine.

Posted by: Hard2Handle | April 28, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

"For example on how to build a CHAMPIONSHIP team "

or at least a close second.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Each week, Herm coaches a different team...hmmmmm....Jared Allen is a lot to give up (when I first heard, I threw up in my mouth a little), but I'm cool with it now. I also liked your Dolphins' draft, 'Coat.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 2:02 PM

It would make a great reality TV show!! "Herm Screws Up: Dallas" or similar. Maybe the audience could vote each week for the team he could coach next? And maybe the NFL could have him coach the #1 seed in each conference when they get into the playiffs, just to level things up a little?

Seriously though, I extend my sympathies to you that this geneuinely good man (but horrible coach) is tinkering with the object of your NFL affections to such ill effect. Must make you pine for Vermeil all the more I guess: his KC team was flawed but so much fun to watch! They were always my 'second' team but I can't bear to watch them now.

I liked the Fins draft too Cindy, I think the top 4 were all immediate strong starters, though the rest seem more of the 'just a guy' types right now, but Parcells (and Ireland, of course) get paid big money to know so I'll put my trust in them.

5-11 here we come! It's uptown for Cosmo, baby!!

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

fair enough curzon. i like that kool-aide too. which is why i can't stand the people who constantly bash moss and ARE, like somehow those two are doomed to injury while jansen and thomas will magically come out scott-free. moss was a top-5 receiver in this league not too long ago, he has the franchise record for receiving yards in a season when he was the ONLY receiving threat and faced constant double and triple teams (in a franchise with two HOF WRs no less). he's not old, he hasn't lost a step, so the only thing holding him back is the same thing that's holding back thomas and jansen, injuries. you can't bash one without bashing the others (and for the record, this post isn't directed at you).

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

JLC, ignore most idiots posting on this blog. First off, I like your viewpoints due to the fact your not a redskin fan or a homer from the get go. I can take honest opinions, negative or positive. Quite frankly, opinions are opinions. My word(s) to you, keep doing what your doing - from my viewpoint its a fine job. And thanks for the coverage and your blog site.

Now my draft thoughts.

Wide receiver has been a weak spot for years. Look at the time and money wasted over the last five years. If this draft can patch that sore spot, so be it. I'm tired of making off season trades that don't pan out or mid season signings of tired beat up throwaways.

I would have liked to seen more cb signed and a lb or two drafted. We are weak at cb and I don't see this getting better. Maybe they sign a free agent, just not sure. If our lb hold up we're ok, but depth and age is a problem.

People say our offense will make our defense better, maybe. But our defense has to get 3 and outs, I just don't see it with our current cb situation. Springs is very good when healthy, Smoots is ok. Neither is 16-20 games a year type player. We need cornerbacks.

Overall, our draft was ok. We have too many spots to fill in one draft. You can argue either way (good draft/bad draft) but the glaring problems still exist. Mainly Depth and Age.

I think devoted veterans like Samuels, Thomas, Jansen, Washington, and Fletcher deserve a trip to the super bowl - I'm not sure they have enough time left for this rebuilding to take place.

Jason Campbell has to get better, our line has to give him time to throw, our receivers have to run good routes and get open and our rb need to get yards to keep the d off balance. Zorn is the key, good plays available, calling them at the right time and installing good game plans from week to week. Keep the defense guessing, do not get predictable in his offensive play calling. Score points....I'm hoping for 20-25+ per game. Probably not going to happen, best case scenario.

Posted by: Rando | April 28, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

On Chris Horton:

UCLA -- This talented senior enters the 2007 season as one of the top safeties in the nation ... He had an impressive junior season, his first as a starter, and figures to be even more effective this year ... He is a physical player who HITS EXTREMELY HARD ... Also a major contributor on special teams who excels at harassing the punter ... A good open-field tackler.

http://uclabruins.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/horton_chris00.html

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

"A draft board cannot measure a players heart."

They actually do that at the combine... can't show it on TV, though, way too gruesome.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

It takes 1-3 years to effectively grade a draft. Why are so many of you down on the skins for addressing a Big area of need on offense? We only changed one defensive boss and that was from Greg Williams to Greg Blatche who essentaily will keep everything the same only with less blitzing. How long did it take us for a receiver to catch a touchdown last year? Correct me if im wrong but it was like 6 games in. That's a sign that you need an upgrade at WR. Randle El, im sorry to say is a better slot guy. He is not a legit #2 receiver. We traded for B. Lloyd to be our #2 with Randle El being a solid slot receiver. Don't be surprised if Thomas or Kelly starts opposite Santana Moss this year. Know I love Sanatana Moss as a player I really do, but besides his breakout year in 05 what has he done since? Not much. In fact he dropped several catchable balls and single handedly cost us that GreenBay game. I question if 2005 was a breakout season or a form he cant return too, because he cant seem to duplicate anything close to how he played that year. Other than 2006 which was fluke, our defense has been top ten. Our offense has lacked for a long time. We got probably the two best receivers in the draft to help soup transition to the west coast offense and the best tight end in the draft in Rd. 2. Remember that Giants game with less than two minutes and we couldnt score from inside the 10 on four straight plays? Tell me that if we had Davis and Cooley plus Kelly, Thomas and Moss, on the outside we wouldnt have scored? I dare anyone to say we wouldn't have on four straight plays, hell Portis or Betts walk in untouched. In a couple of years when Moss and ARE slow down if both are still here, Kelly and Thomas could immulate Bouldin and Fitgerald in AZ. And one last thing, our offensive line has been a strong suite for a few years, common how common is that 3 starting lineman all miss time in the same year, it's not. Chris Samules is still one of the best in the bussiness and so is Jansen when healthy, Rabach is solid two. We should be able to get at least two more quality seasons out of the guys we have on the o0line now plus throw in Kendall,Fabini and Wade for depth, plus youngsters Alexander plus Heyer who was serviceable against some great pass rushers in his rookie camapaign. Would it have been great for the skins to get another guy opposite Carter who quietly posted 9 sacks last year and is under 30? Yes. Did the descent pass rushers on the FA market want ridiculous money and they werent even superstars? Yes. I liked Merling and Calais Campbell but i dont think we missed out on the next Reggie White or Michael Strahan. We have the next two years to draft and finish developing the trenches for the future, but why pass up that talent available. Check our past drafts, we do great job of finding solid talent late. Examples Derrick Dockery,Cooley,Golston,Montgomery, Doughty.

Posted by: skins#1 | April 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

i think we took 1 too many recievers... but i think we're ok on the DL.. not great. we got chris wilson.. which i think can develop into real good pass rusher.

our offense should be better than the past few years.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

guys seriously..everyone is going to have their own opinions about what should have happened and who we should have drafted. But the fact is by the time the skins drafted at 21 in the first round all the O-lineman with first round grades were picked over. I believe the moves they made were good. We kept our picks and filled some of the needed positions we had. Not only that we filled them with guys that have the potential to help out. I'd rather have that than them draft some DE's or OL's that miiiight be able to do something. Maybe all of you would rather go back to the days of wasting all our money and draft picks to bring in washed up big names on there way out of the league i.e Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Jeff George, and Mark Carrier

Posted by: Chad | April 28, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Chris Horton could very well save Vinny Cerrato's sullied reputation as an evaluator of NFL talent.

Let's hope!

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

JLC can write anything he wants here..after all, it is a blog, not an article, so if he wants to give his opinion, he can do so and we should grin and bear it if it isn't to our liking.

That being said, I respectfully disagree with him.

You can't claim the Redskins have needs at: OG/OT/DT/DL/S/CB/OLB/WR including the waterboy, and expect them to all be met in one draft, even with 10 picks - unless you want to undervalue your picks and take guys at these various positions just to say you addressed the need. The Redskins made a determination that they could do better by trading down when they saw all of their options at 21, and IMO they were absolutely right. Shoot, Merling was two picks away from being there at 34, almost leaving them the same decision to make (Thomas/Merling) 13 spots lower having added a 2nd round pick! Merling was gone though, so the Skins took the other option - Thomas, a guy that the majority of experts out there held as the #1 WR in the draft, a guy who many had going to the Bills at 11...with pick 34. Great value pick, and a need position.

Speaking of need position. There seems to be a back and forth of what is "needier"... the O and D lines, or the WR position. Count me for the WR position. Don't forget folks that we were bringing guys in off the streets last year to come in and START at WR last year, and that with ARE and Moss being so small, they are are more inclined to injuries...and they aren't getting any younger either. The OL, though older than I'd like, was still in better shape coming into the draft than the WR spot, and we address the OT spot with a solid 3rd round pick in Reinhart, a guy most people say is underrated. The D-line is more of a concern than the O-line IMO, but it's not the disaster that some make it out to be. Montgomery and Carter are solid starters, who both improved as the year went on. Golston is a capable backup for the aging Griffin, who does need to be replaced. Same with Daniels (replacement), since Chris Wilson seems to be more of a situational player. Still, the problem with DT and DE is they are such premium cost positions...you can't get top players at these spots unless you drafting top 15. Merling, however he may have helped, is not in all likelihood going to be a star - by all accounts he's a run stuffer who isn't much of a pass rusher. Now, he might develop those skills and turn into a pass rushing beast, but if this is what he is (the former), does it really address all of our concerns regarding getting to the QB and collapsing the pocket?

The CB pick is anyone's guess, since by the 4th round you just don't know. He's small and talks a lot of junk...like most corners these days. We'll see.

Both safties appear to be nice pickups given where they were drafted; again, we'll see.

The punter from Georgia Tech...bank on this: Frost is out of a job. This guy is the goods, and was worth a draft pick. He's got a major leg, and has had none other than the legendary Ray Guy working with him over the years. This may be the greatest upgrade on the team, and though an upgrade at P isn't sexy, it sure as hell is more important than most people think.

All in all, I would have liked to see them draft defense in the 2nd round, but have to acknowledge that the first wave of "good" D line guys were gone, while one of the top WR's was still sitting on the board at 51. I was curious about taking a TE, until I read about Zorn's wanting to use many 2TE packages, and this guys ability.

I give them a B+, with the thought that it would have been nice to address the D line in the 4th if it was reasonable to do so. Otherwise, I'd call the Snyder/Cerrato first draft a success. They took care of their new had coach, giving him some more talent to work with in his offense.

They'll have to address the D-line more effectively next year (and the O-line by that time too), but the truth is, there will always be weak spots - even on the best teams - as long as the careers of players continue to shorten as they seem to now, and as long was there is FA.


Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand how JLC cites the colts as the end all of drafting franchises, then ignores that they took WR A.Gonzalez(sp?) in the first round last year despite having Harrison & Wayne? Were they stupid for doing that?

Considering the health issues of Moss and the huge dropoff in talent after ARE, both WRs are a huge need. The good teams in the NFL (NE, Indy, Dallas, GB) can spread the ball around to 4-5 competent receivers. Last year we had 2. I think the strategy was fine. We'll have to wait and see if they picked the right players.

That being said all 3 2nd round picks were considered 1st round talent and a month ago were projected to be gone by #21. Finally, the redskins were able to use the draft to stockpile young talent. I am pretty happy with what transpired.

Posted by: zyvo | April 28, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"A draft board cannot measure a players heart."

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 2:15 PM

---------------------------

Most salient post in the last 48 hours.

Amen, brother.


Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

psp-

I'm not bashing Santana or Randle-El, both can play. But Santana has been injured and Hamstring injuries are pretty signifigant to speed players. That said, I think he can and will be effective. Especially with a big receiver who might just require double teams, leaving Santana 1 on 1.

I am definately not giving a free pass to Jansen and Thomas, either. The diffrence is that there are guys behind them who have shown they can play. When Jansen went down last year, Heyer came in and pretty much shut down Jason Taylor. Strahan's name didn't get called much in the 2nd Giants game either. Fabini took a while to get going but played well enough down the stretch but he I still worry about him as a backup guard. Hopefully the rookie can supplant him in the lineup.

Posted by: etrod | April 28, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

To all the newbie posters out there:

No one in interested in reading a novel up here in RI, trust me...

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

2007 Giants Starting Defensive Linemen who led them to the championship:

Justin Tuck- Drafted by Giants in 3rd
Osi Umenyiora - Drafted by Giants in 2nd
Michael Strahan - Drafted by Giants in 2nd

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

On Chris Horton:

... Also a major contributor on special teams who excels at harassing the punter ...

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 2:15 PM

I hope he does well in straddling that fine line between "harassing" and "roughing."

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

By my count there were 31 defensive linemen chosen between #21 overall (our highest pick, from which we traded down) and #242 overall (where we selected a defensive lineman). In that span, we picked eight dudes who, conspicuously, were not defensive linemen.

28. Lawrence Jackson, DE, Southern Cal
29. Kentwan Balmer, DE, North Carolina
32. Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson
34. [Skins pick WR]
47. Trevor Laws, DT, Notre Dame
48. [Skins pick TE]
50. Calais Campbell, DE, Miami (FL)
51. [Skins pick WR]
52. Quentin Groves, DE, Auburn
54. Jason Jones, DE, Eastern Michigan
66. Kendall Langford, DT, Hampden
72. Chris Ellis, DE, Va Tech
77. Pat Sims, DT, Auburn
87. Andre Fluellen, DT, Florida St
88. Bruce Davis, DE, UCLA
90. Marcus Harrison
96. [Skins pick OL]
102. Jeremy Thompson, DE, Wake Forest
103. William Hayes, DL, Winston-Salem St
115. Dre Moore, DT, Maryland
116. Kenny Iwebema, DE, Iowa
121. Red Bryant, DT, Texas A&M
124. [Skins pick CB]
144. DeMario Pressley, DT, NC State
145. Jason "don't call me" Shirley, DT, Fresno St.
148. Carlton Powell, DT, Va Tech
151. Frank Okam, DT, Texas
152. Letroy Guion, DT, Florida St
167. Erik Walden, DE, Middle Tenn St
168. [Skins pick P]
180. [Skins pick DB]
181. Nick Hayden, DT, Wisconsin
185. Chris Harrington, DE, Texas A&M
186. [Skins pick QB]
190. Ahtyba Rubin, DT, Iowa St
199. Robert Henderson, DE, Southern Miss
208. Ervin Baldwin, DE, Michigan St
210. Brian Johnston, DE, Gardner-Webb
216. Landon Cohen, DE, Ohio
242. [Skins pick DE]

Sorry for the long list, just making the point that were D linemen available throughout the draft who could have -- could have -- bolstered our rotation at tackle or end this season. But we passed on all of them, every single one of those 31 dudes.

This just seems so strange to me, since (like a lot of you) I wanted to see us make D line one of our top priorities in the draft... all right, I'm done griping about this. Hail to 'em either which way...

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Steinbog introduces the draft picks:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

A highlight from Fred Davis' remarks, courtesy Cheeseboy:

"I was really excited to be a part of the burgundy and gold," he said, as Jim Zorn pumped his fist.
"I taught him!" Zorn exclaimed as the room broke into applause. "I was a little nervous because of those SC colors."

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET THE SKINNY ON THE UDFA's??????

Posted by: CLEGG | April 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Cindy, quick question for the newsroom -- what's the general consensus among the Post's sports staffers on the Skins' draft? What's the scuttlebutt, if any? Aside from J-La, I mean -- what opinions are bubbling up?

Just curious if the mood is general optimism/approval (like so many of the pundits being cited up here) or skepticism/disapproval (J-La).

Thanks!

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

psps, not taking anything personal. I like you am a passionate Skins fan and my opinion is just that. I am def with you on Moss.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Chia Pet:

I'm assuming I'm the targeted Newbie for this post.

I'll keep it short and simple then for the grizzled vets.

BONG!

PANTIES!

FIRST!

Snyder and Cerrato are the sum of all evil!

Shambingus.

There you go.

Signed,

Actually writing something worth reading.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

I am simply saying this is the last time I read this blog. I have tried over and over again to understand but now I vote with mouse.................Goodbye JLC......There are other newspapers and blogs that cover the Redskins.............JLC is a Cowboy fan......

Posted by: redskins1 | April 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

190. Ahtyba Rubin, DT, Iowa St

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 2:26 PM

Nate, your boy -- Tuba -- went to the Browns.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

etrod,

that's a fair assessment. thank you for being logical. i personally don't see heyer as a playoff-caliber starting tackle in the future, but he does have a long time to develop and iron out the inconsistencies (like you said, great one game, then awful in another - e.g. vs Seattle). I just wish that Cerrato and Snyder would put more of an emphasis on the lines during the draft, rather than relying on finding the 1 out 100 undrafted FA gems to solidify those positions. drafting Rinehart was a start, but there is more than 1 position on the o-line that needs to be addressed (now for depth, and for future starters).

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Post away Shaun, not everyone on here has the attention span of a figurative coked-up hamster.

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I wish Dan Snyder would have listened to me on whom to draft, I mean I'm a fan, what more expertice do you need, I do my research, I troll blogs on what other people say we need and contribute by saying what I think we need, for the most part when not being a fan I complain about everything the Redskins do

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I don't mind that we used our first pick on a young WR and our second pick on a young TE, especially considering our new offensive system.

What you do have to wonder about is taking ANOTHER received in the same round, when there are clear holes on other aspects of the team. You take 2 pass catchers, and hope that those 2 will be enough to fill your needs in the "throwing the football" aspect of the passing game. We should have then taken a 2nd round OL prospect to fill a need at the "protecting the QB and giving him time to find his new weapons" aspect of the passing game.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat:

Well, in that case, let me give you the breakdown of each individual player:

In 27 different parts.

I. Devin Thomas

A. Route Running Abilities

1.......

...oh, I'm just kiddin' around.

When everything is said and done, we won't really know what we have until September. This year's team will be great mystery before then, I think, with such an unknown talent....at Head Coach.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

I gave the Redskins draft a B+...

Look, the whole draft is a crapshoot for ALL teams. You scout and pick the best player you think can help your team. Many of these guys still have to make the team. I was excited just to be in the draft and they held onto their picks. Face it, we have a new coach, with a new system which he has every right to staff with the players he thinks can help him win.

This team will get bashed no matter what they do. I've watched every snap for the last three years, I've mediocrity on both sides of the ball. Who knows if these receivers will work out but at least you give yourself a chance to develop them. Some of you armchair GM's don't look at the whole picture. You have Undrafted FA's to look at as well as post June 1 cuts. Some people only say we need a DE because somebody else said it. Those players, unless, you're a stud take time to develop. Who knows what Chris Wilson will do. If we got a DE then some fool would say we need a DT, or a FB for that matter.

Let the whole thing play out people...Let's remember, not one current WR caught a fade or a jumball (moss caught one, sorry)...

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Summing up the Steinberg's sportsbog on the draft picks:

- Fred Davis is an amateur rapper with a basement recording studio.

- So is Malcolm Kelly.

- Nothing about whether Devin Thomas raps, but just to lump him with the other two (which would be to pick up where Lloyd, Brandon left off), Thomas will wear #85. [Take THAT, Chad Johnson!]

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

This year's team will be great mystery before then, I think, with such an unknown talent....at Head Coach.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 2:41 PM

Could be worse Shaun, it could be your week to have Herm Edwards!! ;-)

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I wish Dan Snyder would have listened to me on whom to draft, I mean I'm a fan, what more expertice do you need, I do my research, I troll blogs on what other people say we need and contribute by saying what I think we need, ....

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 2:34 PM

Keep up the good work, maybe next year.

This strategy worked for me ... see the 6th round punter.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

alright everyone, i've said my peace on this draft, and out of fear of being fired, i'm going to leave this blog and actually do some work.

there's nothing we can do about it, what's done is done, and we now have 10 more redskins to drink their flavored kool-aide. with moss, ARE, thomas, kelly, cooley, davis, portis, and betts, we may have the most diverse offense in the league. there are certainly no lack of weapons on this roster. if we get on the good side of luck with injuries, this will be one dangerous team for sure.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Sween, I thought that your was the definitive voice in the 'Fassell/not Fassell' debate also?

Influence like yours should be peddled on Capital Hill !

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

i personally don't see heyer as a playoff-caliber starting tackle in the future


How about giving him a little bit more time than his rookie season to come to this assessment??

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I am with Redcoat....anyone bashing Nate should go back to Extreme Skins or whatever...with Redcoat Nate is about the most balanced one around...disagree is fine but this is a bit overboard.

Posted by: zornskins | April 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

I love Santana Moss when healthy, and adding these receivers doesn't mean trade him or he's out, the others, if they can play just give them another look. No one is afraid of 2 5'10 receivers.

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Most people feel that the Redskins drafted fairly well -- but not as well as Kiper thinks. Most believe that taking three WRs was curious; they should have addressed line and secondary. Two late picks seem odd: Brennan and the punter. Do you need to draft a punter? And will Brennan really play here? I think one of the bloggers summed it up nicely with the post about the Patriots drafting linemen and signing receivers.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

The Skins have signed these UDFA...... Wait no one will tell me anything at the park but yet I know what the coaches were saying about the draft? Dan Synder sucks and screwed up the draft!! He's taller than I am too!!!

Posted by: Redskins Insider | April 28, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I appreciate all the kind sentiments, but the bashing is actually fine with me -- I freely admit that, like Sgt. Schultz, I know nothing. Or very little. I go with my heart more often than my head, since that's the kind of fan I am. I deserve to be called out as an ignoramus and person of low football intelligence so forth.

Respectful disagreement usually makes for GREAT conversation up here. And the draft has spurred a lot of that, which is awesome.

It's disrespect for one another, mean-spirited provocation or dismissal of other commenters -- which is demonstrated in many different ways (and which I've shown numerous times, especially during my lamest "Barney Fife" period) -- which I don't like. I've tried to cut it out, and I hope everybody else tries to cut it out so we can spend our time on the good stuff, the fun stuff.

Anyway, hail to the blog, hail to the Skins, etc.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Cindy, what lineman were there in the 2nd round worth drafting there? Campbell is an athletic freak that should've dominated in college and didn't. Etc, etc. I'd be curious to find out how many starting o-lineman or d-lineman were drafted in the 1st or 2nd rounds. I bet it's less than half. I LOVE the punter pick. Frost is wildly inconsistant.

Posted by: Tommy | April 28, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Cindy, yes, you need to draft a punter ... at least to stop the carousel of punters coming through this place (and to stop the madness that is the knee punting of Derrick Frost).

Also, this place says that the Giants, not the Skins, signed this Gilberry fellow ... and that the Skins signed the Iowa State QB, Bret Meyer.

http://www.theredzone.org/2008/draft/udfa/alphabetical.asp

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Could be worse Shaun, it could be your week to have Herm Edwards!! ;-)

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 2:43 PM

LOL! Someone is going to see this, create the show and get rich. While we sit at Summers with Adam and Smack watching Man U and Arsenal.
What's the consensus on the other NFC East teams? I don't think the Gints or Iggles did much; the boys of cow had a pretty good draft. I like Felix Jones. The NFL needs more players named Felix.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Jasno I have never directed any comments at you before but dude you suck!! Last year the defense finished 8th in the leaague after losing their best player to a stupid senseless shooting, Rogers for the season, mcintosh for almost half, a rookie starting at safety, and smoot and springs were out how many games? The problem last year was the offense. How many three and outs did we have in the second half? Now we give Campbell someone to throw the ball to who isnt below 5 9' hobbling around with turf toe or a bad hamstring and all you can do is bit ch! Now we have people to throw to which frees up Portis, there is another tight end which opens it up for Cooley so he doesnt have a big spotlight on him all the time, and we got three projected first round picks in the second round! I think you are just bitter because everyone scooped you and knew who the Redskins were picking and the details of their trades while you were thinking about doodlebop or whatever the hell its called. Oh wait you did get one pick right even though it was in your head. Lighten up, drink a beer smoke a joint whatever but this drafts glass is half full.

Posted by: G | April 28, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I didn't say I wouldn't replace Frosty the Punt Man. I definitely would. But perhaps with an UFDA, er, UDFA.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm surprised some of the Art-ful/Hate-ful faithful at Extremes hasn't put its hitdogs on poor Jason for uttering words that don't always glow concerning the Dano Snydermen.

Keep up the good work, Jason (and polish your Kevlar vest and bomb shelter).

I agree with JLC- - taking three receivers with the first three picks was something only a no-clue midget owner/GM & his fetch dog Vinny would be capable of. The rest of the league laughs on (if not the extreme-nuts).

Posted by: bulldog | April 28, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I looked at the other NFC East teams ... and my only thought was that Philly did what every dweller at the bottom of a division must do ... draft alot at the line of scrimmage.

Giants seem like they are trying to get a handle on their Corey Webster problem.

Cowboys? After he picked Felix, someone asked him for his next draft choice and when he muttered "draft choice?", someone thought it was a statement rather than a question. [Kind of a stretch for a Choice joke, but someday it will get smoother.]

Question: Are we (can we) still be in the Lito Sheppard sweepstakes?

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

But then we would've had to settle for the second best punter! Can't have that...

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

LOL! Someone is going to see this, create the show and get rich. While we sit at Summers with Adam and Smack watching Man U and Arsenal.

What's the consensus on the other NFC East teams? I don't think the Gints or Iggles did much; the boys of cow had a pretty good draft. I like Felix Jones. The NFL needs more players named Felix.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 3:00 PM

Well maybe I've established 'prior art' by suggesting it on this here blog but somehow I don't think that will matter. Anyway, I'd rather be sitting in Summers having a drink with you guys than being 'Senior Executive Vice Producer' or something for that show.

As a Fins fan I think the Grrls did well replenishing their stock of players that Parcells will come and take away later this/early next season. The Gints are presumably standing pat in expectation of a repeat or close to, and as Adam remarked previously, the Eagles seem to have devized some fiedishly cunning plan based around selecting exactly the same player (positionally and physically) 27 times - some sort of race of supercyborgs being created up in DelaPhilthia mayhap?

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Cindy:

I know your post wasn't directed towards me, but I just can't help but comment on the Felix Jones thing.

Frankly, I don't get it. These are the things I hear all year this past season:

Marion Barber should get the bulk of the carries. Julius Jones isn't half the player Marion is.
Marion Barber is one of the best backs in the league.
Marion Barber goes to the Pro Bowl.


These previous statements CAN'T be true if a team feels it has to add another RB with it's FIRST pick in the draft. I understand bringing someone in for depth, but how can a guy be considered such a great back if he either:

A. Has to be run in tandem because you have to have a "change of pace" back with him, or the more likely

B. He can't handle a full workload because of his style of play.


I'm obviously biased, because of course I hate the Cowboys, but they just get over-the-top love for their players. Barber either isn't a complete back, because for me "complete" means taking the bulk of the carries and being a workhorse, or Barber is capable of that, and Dallas made a blunder taking a first round pick that should be sitting on the bench watching the game this year.

Though they somehow had 22 probowlers while bowing out in the first round, I still think the Cowboys had greater needs than another back.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

I think the Thomas pick was a value pick. The picks for Davis and Kelly, however, were questionable given the other needs on this team. Any tight end here is going to be a backup to Cooley and Kelly carries some big question marks due to his knees and overall lack of speed.

Posted by: Roy Hobbs | April 28, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Cindy, the thing about our new narcissist punter is that he has been labeled as the guy with the best hang time since Ray Guy (who also is a family friend and personal punting tip giver). This year, he will be competing with Norv Turner's punter-of-the-century, Mike Scifres, for the highest, longest, deepest punts in the universe ... ever.

As a 6th round pick, its called "with a cherry on top" ... and he's no Jordan Palmer.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

This Day in Blog History, the Monday after the 2007 draft:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/04/the_d_line.html


So... maybe I'm carrying over D line concern from last offseason? I am awfully slow to catch on.

Also, we had lots of fun coming up with nicknames for our new safety tandem, in the wake of picking LaRon... almost brings a tear to the eye.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Why do they always take so long to announce their FA signings... so frustrating.

All I see so far are:
OG Kerry Brown, Appalachian State
OT Shannon Boatman, Florida State
SS Kevin Mitchell, Illinois
OT Devin Clark, New Mexico
OT Darren Marquez, Southern Illinois
WR Horace Grant, St. Olaf

I see some other prospects like Vic Hall (LB), Jermaine Dias (LB) and Sam Keller (QB) arent signed anywhere else yet....

Posted by: Mike C. | April 28, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Shaun, I'm betting that the Lord Jerrah Jones saw what the Gints did with their 1-2 punch running backs last post season and then decided that Felix would be his Ahman Bradshaw.

Who knows, "even a blind squirrel, etc. etc., like such as, maps...."

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Um, all the morons bragging that Kiper gave us a B+. He gave the Giants draft last year a C-. Not to mention you guys are getting on JLa just for criticizing the Skins for not doing what every successful team in recent history of the NFL has done. Geez, he's such a whiny jerk right? (eyes roll)

Did you not read the part where he said that our own coaches were concerned about the strategy? Or the evidence he gave that Snyder is unhealthily obsessed with WRs?

What about the fact that he said MOST of the league had lower grades on Thomas and Kelly? I think he supported his argument pretty darn well. Better than you guys just calling him names.

Posted by: Dan P. | April 28, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Shaun, Marion Barber was who he was because of Julius Jones. They needed to replace Julius Jones ... and by doing it with another guy named Jones (you know, because Julius is a funny name, not like Felix), they can keep up with the Joneses.

Meanwhile, their owner is considering changing his own name to Jerry of Olay ... to keep his skin looking younger and more supple. [This gratuitous, ad hominem dig brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.]

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Here is the list UDFA signings for the skins that I found

Redskins
OG - Kerry Brown - Appalachian State
OT - Shannon Boatman - Florida State
OT - Devin Clark - Florida State
S - Kevin T. Mitchell - Illinois
WR - Horace Grant - St. Olaf
OT - Darren Marquez - S. Illinois
DL - Wallace Gilberry - Alabama
QB - Bret Meyer - Iowa St.

Posted by: JustinBaker | April 28, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Overall I agree with JLA.

The mistake in this draft was taking the TE instead of trading that pick + something to move up a couple and get Merling or Campbell.

Posted by: Mike C. | April 28, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

erin henderson signed wit vikings

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Hobbs:

I question the value of signing a way overaged center fielder with a ghost of a history and an apparent interal injury to a contract...but look how that turned out!

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Hey Dan P., would you like some lube with that handjob you're giving?

Posted by: Quid, Pro & Quo | April 28, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Sween:

Aha! So in your opinion, does Marion deserve his "one of the best runneers in the game" status?

If he needs another runner to take time away so he can produce like that, then I say...NO.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

I thought that the punter was one of the best of many good Redskins move in this draft. Ray Guy was drafted in the first round. Does that seem like a mistake?

Very risky trying to get a punter as a UDFA. Isn't that how we got Frost? And that whole carousel of losers before him?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Gonna have to disagree with ya jlc..
Got a punter to replace Derrick "shank the punt" frost.
3 big bodies to catch the ball so the smurfs can do what there supposed to!
one versitile OL if we stay healthy for 2 years with this OL as of now we can draft more in the coming years its not like this is the last draft of all time.
A Corner who if was 5'11 to 6'2 would be a first rounder.
2 safties which both were gambles.
and Colt Brennan ..wasnt tom brady a sixth rounder everyone doubted?

Posted by: Matt | April 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Shaun, I didn't mean be praising on Marion Barber ... but b/c RBs take so much wear and tear, I can't crap on a guy for having a guy who spells him. See e.g., Portis and Betts.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

I wouldnt b surprised if the skins traded for a top de or dt. before the season

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone say Jason Taylor

Posted by: matt | April 28, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

any word on whether Dan Connor (LB, Penn) has gone yet in the UDFA derby?

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Kinda funny how most of the receivers that Dan Snyder covets in each draft turn out to be pretty awesome receivers!

I'm glad we finally drafted not only one but three of them.

We added three players that can all dramatically help our RED ZONE OFFENSE.

example: cooley, davis stacked on line with Kelly/Thomas/Mix running fade to the other side.

THEY CAN'T JUST EYEBALL COOLEY IN THE RED ZONE ANYMORE!! YEY!!! (Not that it worked anyway.)

We created a lot of option and depth in offense, we were too one-dimensional in red zone last year...this should fix that.


JLC, your ignorance is tiresome.

Dear Washington Post,

Please Can La Canfora

Posted by: Can La Canfora Campaign 2008 | April 28, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

I'm a skins fan for life, but I'm tried of everyone hating or having a level of concern of Dallas players. Look, Tony romo is good. TO is good, Marion Barber is good. Does the media give Barber good angles while slurping? Yes.

I don't know, but disliking, or hating, doesn't mean you get completely out of touch with reality. These are good players, just turns out they play for the Cowboys. Get over it.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Wow, he really is jealous of Bram isn't he?

Posted by: Richmond Dave | April 28, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Sween:

Oh, I won't crap on Barber. To me, he's a very good back. Still, to spell a guy (5-10 carries a game) is one thing, ala Turner for Tomlinson.

It's another thing entirely when you alternate the carries 50/50, as the Cowpokes did last year. I just don't believe you can be considered a premier back if you aren't handling more than a 50/50 load.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

We created a lot of option and depth in offense, we were too one-dimensional in red zone last year...this should fix that.

I think the west coast offense should fix this problem and not necessarily depth.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

conner went in the 3rd to carolina

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

you are a negative nancy JLC, i hope whatever got up your ass dies so you stop being so negative

i'm not saying be a homer, but give some objective commentary THAT ISN'T BIASED AGAINST THE REDSKINS

SCREW YOU

Posted by: Ryan | April 28, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

The reason why henderson fell like he did from what i read was that his knees are done, he wont be able to last at all in the nfl

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I'll ask again, who would you have drafted other than the receivers. Who is better? Who would we have taken other than the punter in the 6th? Everybody wants to bash the picks but give us an alternative. Jasno or Cindy or whoever, who is better?

Posted by: Tommy | April 28, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure if someone mentioned this before, we could have picked Calais Campbell with our second pick in round two, addressed a amajor DL issue and still picked up the TE from USC or Kelly with the teams third pick in the round.

With that scenario, the team could addressed almost all their holes.

Posted by: Papken75 | April 28, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I like the ZORN stamp of approval on this draft!

2 WR's
1 TE
1 OG
1 CB
1 P
1 QB

Thanks Jim, I pay an awful lot of money for season tickets( I'm the sucker I know!) and was planning on throwing them in the trash can...However I applaud you on this draft.

YOUR GUYS! Not Joe's or Allen's or Charlie's...YOUR GUYS!

Live on off your sword, Die of YOUR sword! I applaud you Jim.

and Jason, I thought you came up writing hockey? What do you know about football?

Posted by: Richmond Dave | April 28, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Hey G: JLC is still bitter that the Caps lost... You'd think getting the best available punter and significantly improving the WRs would cheer him up!

Posted by: Siris | April 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

As usual JLC nails it. The gang who couldn't shoot straight strikes again.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Papken75,
Why did he slip to the 2nd round? Reading the measurables he reads like a freak. Not arguing just wondering why a guy with that athleticism is taken in the 2nd?

Posted by: Tommy | April 28, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

To the UN NAMED ONE:

Romo, Owens, and Barber are indeed good players. However, there is a considerable different between a good player and a Pro Bowl player.

There are a fair amount of "6-7 out of 10" players. Pro Bowlers should be a minimum of an "8".

I'd difinitely put Owens in the 8+ category, with Romo on the border (a little too inconsistent to be up there with Manning, Brady, etc.), but Barber, who apparently NEEDS to share carries down the middle? Good player? Yes. Pro Bowler? Hell no.

P.S.

Why get over it? I'd rather call it out for what it is: a nationwide fawning in the media which constantly gives the Boys a pass. For all those Pro Bowlers, and for all their hype every year, the Cowboys have won less playoff games than the Redskins in the last 14 years: and that's saying something, since we've won ONE.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

any word on whether Dan Connor (LB, Penn) has gone yet in the UDFA derby?

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:28 PM

Panthers, 3rd round.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Unless Sween convinces me otherwise, I am really excited about the punter, Durant Brooks. He was another "value pick." Sports Illustrated had him going early fifth round. Maybe he slipped because of his 4.92 time in the forty?

Here's what one scouting service said about him:

Brooks put on a sensational show during Senior Bowl practices that NFL coaches are still raving about. Brooks stepped into his first punt of the day during Tuesday's session and sent it sailing. As the ball continued to fly past the other sideline and then over the head of Tampa Bay head coach Jon Gruden, Gruden simply looked up at the ball and asked, "Is that serious?"

The fact is, punts like those are not only serious for Brooks, but they have become routine. "Durant is a great talent," 49ers head coach Mike Nolan said. "I don't think teams are going to be able to sit around and hope he falls to them."

After Tuesday's practice featured the length of Brooks' punts, Wednesday focused more on directional and pooch punting drills. With the NFL scouts already aware of his leg strength, Brooks proved he could consistently down the ball inside the 10-yard line. "Everyone knows that Durant can kick the ball a good ways, but what's underrated is how incredible his hang time is," one scout said. "When you're trying to punt the ball inside the 20 it's all about hang time, and Durant does it better than anybody."

Can't wait to see the look on Frost's face when they start kicking together.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

conner went in the 3rd to carolina

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 3:31 PM

i brainfarted ... i flashed back to an article about unpicked guys ... but it must have been unpicked after day one.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

I have already been picked, too.

Posted by: your nose | April 28, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Two ways that Durant Brooks and Frost are opposites, from the analysis of Brooks:

Poised under pressure and will not let a bad kick affect his performance

Seems a bit reluctant to get involved in contact as a tackler, preferring to let others handle that job...

Of course he's not going to tackle people. Dude's a Georgia Tech graduate and all the idiots went to Georgia.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

My take on the draft is this: B+. Get someone other than the whiny bastard for your 2nd WR; better yet get someone who can contribute on defense/OL instead of whiny bastard; and more picks when trading down - they should have gotten some picks next year with the numbers of picks they got this year in their trades. Other than that, because of the UDFA OL signings, I'd have to say this wasn't a bad draft in that it addressed most of our needs, including one we didn't originally perceive (TE).

I believe Heyer will be a dominant starting OL, but needs more time to develop. I don't know many OL when they get thrown into the starting role a year or two early who aren't inconsistent. I remember hearing the coaching staff saying he flashed some brilliance, which I believe will become consistently shown (the brilliance) with more coaching and experience.

I'd rather have us pick up a straight C, but we got a very versatile pick instead who Buges could train and put where he wants him.

Also, looking back on the past few years, our offense has been consistently annoying - getting to the 5 yard line and fighting themselves to get a TD. With this many weapons, if they don't I'll bury myself alive. Period.

Posted by: Karen | April 28, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I just don't believe you can be considered a premier back if you aren't handling more than a 50/50 load.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 3:30 PM

It was Jones (J)'s ineffectiveness in the red zone which opened the door for Barber in the first place. Jones was supposed to be the running back for Dallas back under Parcells, but he couldn't close the deal. They then found out that using Barber as the 2nd half change of pace to Jones, as well as in the red zone was really effective to them.

To a disinterested outsider it looked like this demotion finished Jones as a Grrls player and when Barber started to come up short in the latter half of last season there was no-one to take over. I think this year is Barber's 'make or break' to show that he can do more than run over people when they're tired or he somehow ends up in broken field. If he can't he mayefind himself back in the #2 slot.

IMHO this is why the Grrls were prepared to entertain trading Barber this off-season; they're just not sure he's going to make it yet. He should be good enough but he looks best when the team he's up against is demoralized.....

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

A few quick points to keep in mind:
1. A draft analysts grading a team's draft performance is based exclusively on the draft -- not necessarily on the team's needs. In other words, by most accounts the Skins did a good job with their selections over the weekend. They didn't reach, got good value, and selected good performers. But how they will mesh within the team and its schemes are an unknown.
2. Yes, 3 pass catchers is a lot. And no doubt they will help, but getting all of them involved is unlikely.
3. Is it possible that the USC TE or even one of the new wide outs could still be used for trade bait? New Orleans is looking for a TE. Teams with injuries, particularly to skilled players, in upcoming camps or during the preseason might pay highly... Bottom line I would have liked to have seen them exchange one of those catchers for a big hitter.

Posted by: jkj | April 28, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

All the people who are saying the Redskins should have drafted more in the trenches to be like the Giants and the Patriots are neglecting to answer one simple question: WHO should they have drafted that would have more of an impact than their current players?

Some posters here seem to think elite pass rushers who are also decent against the run grow on trees or something. Do you know how rare it is to find a DL who is good enough at both to be an every-down starter?? ESPN recently ran an article about the lack of decent pass-rushing in today's NFL. Almost no good pass rushers have been drafted over the past 10 years. Yet the Redskins, drafting at 21, were supposed to find one?

Newsflash: there weren't any elite pass-rushers in this draft that we know about. If any of them develop, whoever drafted them got lucky. The Giants? They got lucky and were good at player selection. But I think it's safe to say the Giants didn't just reach for the best available DL and OL every round. And if the Giants had determined that none of the DLs they wanted would be available in 2007, they wouldn't have drafted as many as they did. Of course, Strahan and Umeniyora were already on the team, so those needs were pretty much handled.

This Redskins draft wasn't perfect, but it was good. It's impossible to predict how a given draft will turn out before you have the chance to watch the players for a couple of years at least. I appreciate the effort they made to address needs.

I've been on RI for years, and I approve this message.

Posted by: jcabana | April 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Tommy, Campbell fell because he had a couple of lousy workouts, at the Combine, and at the Miami Pro-Day. He seems slow, and weak based on the results of those day's.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

As a big fat baby, I already have some doubts about Durant ... the position pick upon whom I've staked my entire bibliography.

As a punting punter, I am convinced he is the guy: distance, hang time, positional placement. For the other things punters do, however, he doesn't do so well. He doesn't tackle. [Frost is ... was ... very good at this ... maybe because he needed to be]. Durant does not kick off the ground or a tee ... i.e., he is not a second string emergency kicker. He does not hold for place kicks. He is supremely confident ... bordering on ... each of the Great Lakes (can't bring myself to bash him yet). Of the maroon and black's 6th round choice he said, "I think the Skins made an awesome pick." These concerns, however, will be nothing if he simply does what he routinely does, punt extremely well.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

I am not sure it is a reach to draft 2 WR given that they only have Moss and EL. And MOSS has been hurt lately. The fact of the matter is that the offense consistently produced less than the defense 3 out of last 4 years. Jason, you are writing as if they had no needs in the offensive side. I'd have liked them to pick up someone early enough in the Defensive Line, but you can't rebuild the entire roster in one year draft.

Let's wait to pass our judgment for this draft class until the end of the season. I just wish they had done more of this in the last few years. Then going after the likes of Brendan Lloyd and giving up picks.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

With this many weapons, if they don't I'll bury myself alive. Period.

Posted by: Karen | April 28, 2008 3:42 PM

Just curious, but how will you do this if worse comes to worst?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

3. Is it possible that the USC TE or even one of the new wide outs could still be used for trade bait?

Posted by: jkj | April 28, 2008 3:42 PM

If history is any indication, it is quite possible that more than half of the Skins' draft picks will not make the roster.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Papken75,
Why did he slip to the 2nd round? Reading the measurables he reads like a freak. Not arguing just wondering why a guy with that athleticism is taken in the 2nd?

Posted by: Tommy

Tommy,

I assume you are referring to Calais Campbell? I dont recall exactly why he slipped to the 2nd, maybe something about taking plays off and a fairly unproductive last season. If you mean Kelly, he slipped because he has a slow 40 time, 2 bad knees, and possible attitude issues. The TE from USC i know is good. I am a displaced Washingtonian living in L.A. so i got to see a lot of him with all th USC hype here. Was he good enough to be pisked where the Skins got him... not sure but i could see him defiantely being there with the Skins 3rd pick. Lokk who was picked by other teams between the Skins 2nd and 3rd picks. The TE from USC would still be there for sure!

Posted by: Papken75 | April 28, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Greg. I hadn't payed much attention and just saw his measurables.

Posted by: Tommy | April 28, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Please don't send me into a depression by contemplating how. It justs seems that if I do that it makes the possibility all the more real.

Posted by: Karen | April 28, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

any word on whether Dan Connor (LB, Penn) has gone yet in the UDFA derby?

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:28 PM


Ummmm, like, this dude was drafted in the 3rd round...by the Panthers...replacing Dan Morgan....

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=12170&draftyear=2008&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfldraft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fid%3d12170%26draftyear%3d2008

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

As I think about this draft, one thing is apparent. It is about offense. Which was NOT the case with Gibbs in the mix. The top Gibbs pick every year was on defense, and there seemed a balance between offense and defense.

Vinny has made the call that 2008 is about the offense.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

More than just PPG (which we talked about above), I'd be interested in seeing the effect these new pass-catchers (and Zorn's O as a whole, of course) have on our third down efficiency and red zone efficiency from last season...

A big, possession receiver opposite Santana, freeing up ARE in the slot and Cooley in the middle, that's the idea, right?

Converting more third downs, moving the chains, and sustaining drives (I realize those three things are the same)...reaching the red zone and, once there, getting TDs instead of FGs... it certainly sounds nice.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

sween,

If you're having buyer's remorse on your punter, check him out here:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/durant-brooks?id=1683

Read both pages. The guy's a keeper.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Jasno said: "You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft."

That's too bad, because history suggests that there won't be. At least, not better than what the Redskins have now. I think Ceratto is an idiot for not trying to draft linemen higher and more often than he does. At the same time, defensive line is one of the hardest positions to predict success unless you have a can't-miss prospect. So it's understandable that the Redskins were too scared of potentially drafting a bust of a d-lineman.

My biggest beef with this draft was the TE pick. I think that was the one spot in the draft where it was worth taking a chance on a lineman on either side of the ball. Generally, a TE isn't going to make that big an impact.

As for the OL issues, I think they've been overblown. The line was a mess last year, and the Skins did all right even when plugging in unproven young players. Those players all have a year more experience now, plus some 3rd-round draft pick help. The Redskins have to hope almost all the injured o-line stays relatively healthy this year. But as other posters have said, at least with o-line the team has some options.

There were too many holes to address in one draft, so the team did what it could. ARE is best in the slot, and Moss has almost never stayed healthy for 16 games in his entire career, so taking 2 WRs was an understandable gamble to make - especially in the second round.

Aside from the Davis pick, I like what they did.

Posted by: jcabana | April 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Of course Yoder can't do what Cooley does. Few TEs have the pass receiving skills Cooley does. But Yoder is a blocking TE. That said, he made some memorable plays down the field in '07 and one wonders if they utilized him fully. Had the OL not been banged up we undoubtedly would have seen better production from all the ball handlers.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 1:37 PM

My point was that for a 2 TE set, drafting a pass catching TE was prudent. There wasn't anyone else on the team who would be as effective.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

I tend to agree with Jason on this post. They had opportunities to fill needs on an offensive line that is hoping to return two starters from season long injuries in '07. They are all up there in age and the only young stud (if you can call him that) is Heyer. The defensive line is a bit different but I'll bet with anyone right now that Daniels won't stay healthy the whole season. Chris Wilson did some nice things last season, but he isn't Reggie White just yet. Yup, we have some receivers who can be playmakers but Campbell needs to stand upright to get him the ball.

Posted by: JL | April 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

can we stop calling these guys "weapons" they haven't played a down of NFL Football yet. People keep saying we are set for years at WR....

We will see on the feild, thats what makes sports great.....

and WaPo please stop covering the skins, your hurting our feelings....

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

I don't think the Gints or Iggles did much; the boys of cow had a pretty good draft. I like Felix Jones. The NFL needs more players named Felix.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 3:00 PM

Well, we wanted a receiver, but you took them all.

Posted by: SMACK | April 28, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

If you bury yourself, please don't do it at the three yard line... it's creating a hump that makes it really hard to score.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

"2007 Giants Starting Defensive Linemen who led them to the championship:

Justin Tuck- Drafted by Giants in 3rd
Osi Umenyiora - Drafted by Giants in 2nd
Michael Strahan - Drafted by Giants in 2nd

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 2:24 PM "

And the most salient fact about those guys? None of them were drafted in the same year as any other one. Strahan is ancient, Umenyiora is in his prime, and Tuck is a youngster. The Redskins weren't in a position to take the Strahans, Tucks and Unmenyioras of this draft...assuming there were any to be had in the first place.

As I said earlier, I'd like to see the team occasionally target a guy to be their next pass-rushing or run-stuffing stud. They should do this every other draft or so; that's the secret of the Giants' success. But using those 3 as support to bash the Redskins 2008 draft alone is just not a good argument.

Posted by: jcabana | April 28, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins draft is pretty good if you are talking about Best Player Available.

The Redskins draft is pretty bad if you are talking about drafting to fill up your needs.

Posted by: Tenk | April 28, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

If you bury yourself, please don't do it at the three yard line... it's creating a hump that makes it really hard to score.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 3:55 PM

Cload, I believe the original purpose of the 'jumbo package' (before Rabach redefined that phrase forever) was to flatten that hump.

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Having a million great pass catchers is wonderful for the occasional miracle catch over three defenders while flipping in the air... but having a solid O-Line will allow for the more consistant 1st down catches to happen. The same importance can be put on the defensive line. This team will only be successful on a regular basis if we solidify our lines. Did we need a big WR, a steady CB, a LB... yes but we all have to agree that it starts in the trenches. Trent Dilfer and Eli Manning won superbowls because of their strong D-Lines and O-Lines.

Posted by: Papken75 | April 28, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

SMACK, do you ever reply to your emails any more?

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse

let me put it this way if the skins continue this route and stop giving up picks and add picks the following year draft the skins will be a dangerous team to be messed with.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Give the guy a break. He is entitled to his opinions as is Mel Kiper, Charlie Casserly, and Coach Janky Spanky. Opinions are just that opinions. In three years either J La or Kiper will be right. Kiper was not right about the Giants last year.

Anyway, I think half the people who rip J La so harshly are probably on Snyderatto's pay roll.

I am concerned that they got do DL help, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now

Posted by: J La fan club | April 28, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

'jumbo package' (before Rabach redefined that phrase forever)

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 4:00 PM

RC, fell off my chair on that one!!

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Note on Malcolm Kelly

Good Friend is both Sooners and Cowgirls fan and he was PISSED when he heard we drafted him.

Call-you-later-hang-up-the-phone PISSED!

Posted by: Poop on LaCanfora | April 28, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

If what JLC is suggesting about Vinny and Dan, inflating the draft score of the WR's, because the owner is infatuated with that position --- well, in all candor, that would be disturbing. Then again, we have heard about so many ego-driven, selfish acts from this Owner.

I always enjoy that JCL will not shy away from being candid about the Redskins and some of the behind the scenes motives/perspectives. Although, all things considered, I think this is an unnecessary negative post.

As an arm-chair GM, my opinion is that it was actually really smart getting 3 highly skilled Receivers in the 2nd round of the draft. If these 2 WR/TE develop to any reasonable level, along with Anthony Mix. The Redskins offense is going to be vicious in a few years. These picks where not to win the SuperBowl next year, its to surround JCampbell with young talent, and to let it all develop and unfold around him. This is going to be a 2-3 year growth process. This offense needs to develop a rapport with each other.

No doubt about it, in the NFL Teams win championships with the OL and DL. The best evidence was the Gaints Defensive Lines unraveling the Pat's 'unbeatable' offense in the SuperBowl. I must admit, I was secretly hoping that Synder was watching that Game, and was becoming enamored with Stud Linemen.

The bottom line, is that The Redskins need to get lucky with some undrafted free agents for the OL and DL. And if they don't dedicate their free agent and draft resources to getting young talent to develop on the OL/DL within the next 24 months, this Organization will remain in the stink hole.

Because, no matter how you want to frame it, the Redskins are just treading water. And if your not playing for the Super Bowl, what are you doing?

Posted by: Alobar | April 28, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

******Anyway, I think half the people who rip J La so harshly are probably on Snyderatto's pay roll.*********
Posted by: J La fan club | April 28, 2008 4:02 PM

Not on the payroll, just see red (burgundy) when anyone bashes my team.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

For all you JLA haters and Redskins Kool-Aid drinkers, please read Mr. Mark Maske's comments on the chat today. He seems to also think that drafting 2 wide receivers and a TE all in the same round is curious.

Mark Maske: I really like both Calais Campbell and Quentin Groves as pass rushers, and they're two of the guys that you're talking about. I don't understand taking two wide receivers like that, either. To me, the thing to do would have been to stay put at No. 21 in the first round and get your defensive end by taking Phillip Merling, knowing you'll get one of the wide receivers in the second round because none of them had been taken at that point.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/04/28/redskins-sign-cyclones-qb-bret-meyer/

Redskins sign some QB named Jordan Palmer ooops I mean Bret Meyer

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

If the offense runs with more efficiency, and scores more points, it stands to reason that most likely, they'll be on the field more often than they were last year. It also stands to reason that if they're more successful, and more efficient the defense will benefit from not being on the field as MUCH.

Is that too simplistic??

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

The bottom line, is that The Redskins need to get lucky with some undrafted free agents for the OL and DL. And if they don't dedicate their free agent and draft resources to getting young talent to develop on the OL/DL within the next 24 months, this Organization will remain in the stink hole.

Because, no matter how you want to frame it, the Redskins are just treading water. And if your not playing for the Super Bowl, what are you doing?

Posted by: Alobar | April 28, 2008 4:03 PM

Amen.

Posted by: Papken75 | April 28, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

You keep forgetting that over the past 4 years, we have NO ONE to throw to except Moss when he isn't hurt and Cooley, who many times had to be held in for max protect. Not because the O line couldn't do the job, but because Campbell had no one to throw who caused fear in opposing defenses so they would stack the line. I like the idea that we have several new big targets for Jason to throw to. If you are going to make Jason the franchise QB, then you have to give him weapons to work with. Now how do the defenses line up against the Skins? Double Moss and you have these big recievers and TE's that you can dump the ball to, or on a quick slant, the bread and butter play of the West Coast offense. We got 3 first round players in the second round. ALL of the first rate O linemen had been chosen and you saw Atlanta and Houston reach because of the run on O linemen. What else could the Skins have done? I think we are going to be looking back on these picks as having revived our offense. Vinnie and Snyder have finally figured out, that we need to OUT SCORE the Cowboys, Eagles and Giants to win the division. No more 17-14 games. We have to score 21 or more points per game in order to win.

Posted by: Mark Fisher | April 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

To me, the Skins should have taken shots at DL and OL with about 5 picks. Its not uncommon to find very effective guys in the mid rounds. Take multiple shots at getting a Jared Allen of Justin Tuck. It happens.

The thought process that led to the team essentially leaving the defense out and taking only 1 OL when all of the starters are 30+, is strange. Especially when you are taking a punter, a TE (maybe the Skins top player) and a 3rd string QB. Its hard to figure those needs are more compelling than the o line or defense.

Still, the real tale of this class will be in the number of players that make an impact. If the players selected are good NFL players, then this will have been a good draft.

Its more important to draft players that can play in the NFL than solve position needs. Get quantity of players from the draft at reasonable prices. Then use FA to help with specific positions (ie Fletcher at MLB).

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

everyone forgets, the skins late round draft picks have historically not made this team under cerrato. if any of these guys past the 4th round are on the team, i'd be surprised. here are few names we've forgotten: Jared Newberry, Robert McCune, Kevin Simon, Kili Lefotu, Manuel White, and oh so many more.......

Posted by: dan | April 28, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Redskins dump one rapper and pick up two new ones (Davis and Kelly)

http://www.hogshaven.com/2008/4/28/462385/redskins-cut-one-rapper-dr

Posted by: New Jack City | April 28, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Yahoo Sports gave the Skins an "A". Overall a good draft but like one poster indicated, when was last time the Skins had WRs play the entire year? A very very long time ago. We got burned most of last year by not having our starting WRs out on the field. Hopefully these WRs will turn out to be better than average.

Kevin

Posted by: Kevin | April 28, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

JCabana,

Tuck, Umenyiora and Strahan were all 2-3rd rounders. None of them were projected 1st round studs. Why not take a shot a 2nd/3rd round pass rusher like these guys once were? Heck, you have 3 picks in the 2nd round, at least ONE of them could've been a defensive lineman.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Redskins sign some QB named Bret Meyer

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 4:07 PM

Didn't he make all those sexploitation movies featuring various women with generous embonpoint ?

Or maybe that was Oscar Meyer? Or Rush Limbaugh?

I'm so confused!

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I admit it. I was WRONG.

Due to circumstances the REDSKINS MADE the best of the situation they were in. Good draft, guys.

Once they made the trade down from the first round--A GOOD MOVE--and had three 2nd rounders, they got some bad breaks.

MERLING was plucked by Miami right away at 32.

When the 34th pick arrived, DEVIN THOMAS was the right move.

Unfortunately, Trevor Laws, DT goes to Phila at 47. I'll BET the skins would have taken him at 48. Instead, they go for FRED DAVIS. The only other real option? CALAIS CAMPBELL. He's iffy.

CAMPBELL goes at 50, anyway. The skins pluck MALCOLM KELLY.

Okay we WANTED OLmen or DLmen.

I LOOKED at the other teams and their picks, THERE WERE NO good selections AVAILABLE!!

INDY takes an undersized OG-C at 59(Mike Pollak). The SKINS got their undersized OG-C (DeVan) as a UFA!

JASON JONES a DT or DE from a small school goes at 54. Is he better than KELLY? Probably not. Not a hard worker, some say.

THERE ARE NO offensive linemen or DLINEMEN taken in the second round that the SKINS coulda/shoulda had..

It wasn't that the skins didn't buy--ther was no product available.

DBs? LBs? That's an argument for another day. But the BIG UGLIES weren't there.

Posted by: Corkczar, Humbled | April 28, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

So you are just a blind homer?


Not on the payroll, just see red (burgundy) when anyone bashes my team.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 4:05 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

While I have no reason not to believe jasno's point that VC and Danny inflated the grades of the WRs because they perceived that position as a need, why wouldn't every single other front office do the same thing?

The teams that didn't have Kelly and Thomas rated as high probably were those that already have quality depth at the WR position. I'm willing to bet the 'Skins didn't have Jonathan Stewart and Chris Johnson as highly rated as say, the Cowboys, who made it readily apparent they were looking for an additional RB.

Posted by: Wood | April 28, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Note on Malcolm Kelly

Good Friend is both Sooners and Cowgirls fan and he was PISSED when he heard we drafted him.

Call-you-later-hang-up-the-phone PISSED!

Posted by: Poop on LaCanfora | April 28, 2008 4:03 PM

Hey Poopy:
Sheesh, would you learn how to write?Who's "he" -- the Good Friend or Kelly?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Why draft a lineman to develop when you can sign them as a free agent after the draft?

Say what you want but the FO got first round talent from Stephon Heyer last year without using any draft picks.

Everyone wants lineman in draft but we have quality starters at every line position on both side....we need depth yes but no one available was better than what we already have.

Posted by: chris larry named his donkey Jasnoed en La Canfora for a Dollares | April 28, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

If the offense runs with more efficiency, and scores more points, it stands to reason that most likely, they'll be on the field more often than they were last year. It also stands to reason that if they're more successful, and more efficient the defense will benefit from not being on the field as MUCH.

Is that too simplistic??

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 4:07 PM

Not too simplistic Greg, but it's also exactly the same argument that was used both for and against Weird Al's offense!

Scoring points is obviously important, but if you're playing the best teams the time of possession may be even more vital. It's hard to win out in today's NFL if you can't keep the other guys offense off the field for most of the game too.

The Patriots were super-effective with limited time of possession against some teams but eventually found that they couldn't keep getting away with that aging LB corps because their defense couldn't get off the field when it really mattered.

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 4:12 PM

No, not a blind homer. Just don't think that this draft was the negative draft Jasno is making it out to be. We we not going to fix all of our needs in one draft and we got value for our picks.

Corkzcar, Humbled right above your post explains it very succinctly. No need for the negative post that Jasno did.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Hmm I'll try to say something new or different but hardly original. . .

I basically feel this could be a very solid draft. I see where J-La is coming from. Look at the last 15 years of this organization and I begin to feel like Wiley E. Coyote when he runs of the cliff while chasing the Road Runner and keeps moving forward until suddenly he looks down and realizes he's run off the cliff. . . and then puff of dust.

Posted by: sfskin | April 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

"Tuck, Umenyiora and Strahan were all 2-3rd rounders. None of them were projected 1st round studs. Why not take a shot a 2nd/3rd round pass rusher like these guys once were? Heck, you have 3 picks in the 2nd round, at least ONE of them could've been a defensive lineman.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 4:10 PM"

I totally agree with you. ONE of them should have been a DL. I'm just pointing out that you don't find a Tuck, Strahan and Umenyiora in rounds 2 and 3 in every draft.

Was there one in the 2008 draft? Only time will tell. But given the dearth of great pass rushers to come along in the last 10 years, the odds weren't in the 'Skins favor to find him.

Posted by: jcabana | April 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

http://blog.al.com/rapsheet/2008/04/wallace_gilberry_headed_to_the.html

Wallace Gilberry chose the Giants over us. I would think he would have a better chance of catching on with us, but what do I know?

Posted by: Snyder is 4'5" | April 28, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Really wish we could have signed Marcus Dixon after the draft and I really don't like that he went to Dallas. I'm sure Jerry signed him just to help keep Pac man in line and out of trouble.

Posted by: Gwinnett4skins | April 28, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

The reason why they have not announced their UFA's is because they have lost out on some of the ones they thought they would probably get like Wilberry and such. They are probably still trying to round out their 13 or so players. While I like all the OL UFA's they have gotten again they are lagging in getting DL UFA's

Posted by: Snyder is 4'5" and wears heels | April 28, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

From Redskins.com:

What Happened to the D-Line?

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=35456

Posted by: Siris | April 28, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

However here is my own weird silver lining for the draft.

It seems they drafted to help make ZoJo happen. Drafted for the WCO and Zorn's playbook.
That means hopefully the Danny is committed to this guy and not even secretly alone at night in the dark seeing him as a placeholder. (Unless he has a Cam Cameron season.)

That means we might actually being looking for consistency and stability for more than 1-2 years. And that would be something to break a pinata over.

Posted by: sfskin | April 28, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I see everyone posting about the offensive line, may I remind everyone that when we drafted Dockery he was terrible his first year. Does anyone remeber that philly game? He did not become good until almost his 3rd year. so stop acting like if we would have drafted a lineman this year our problems would have been solved. we have heyer, lorenzo alexander, and draft picks. we actually have some depth at O-line but WR was the biggest issue. Hello we had keenan mcardell and Reche caldwell. Our draft picks are an upgrade from that last year.

Posted by: Great one | April 28, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Holy crap! and how did we not get a DE in the draft before the 7th round.

I would gladly trade TE Davis for a DE

Posted by: Phillip Daniels is turning 35 | April 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

First impressions from the presser introducing the top three picks.

Devin Thomas - Introduce with jersey #85. Ugh...Dude looks like a worker.

Fred Davis - Good guy. Competitive. Winner.

Malcolm Kelly - CONFIDENT. This guy has that athletic arrogance be to special.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 28, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Hill joined SIU teammate Darren Marquez in the NFL. Marquez, a 6-4, 300-pound offensive tackle, signed with the Indianapolis Colts following the draft. He also had talks with Washington and Tennessee, but thought Indianapolis was the best situation. Former Saluki wideout Alan Turner did not immediately return a message left on his cell phone Sunday night.

Posted by: another one turns us down | April 28, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly - CONFIDENT. This guy has that athletic arrogance be to special.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 28, 2008 4:28 PM


So did Brandon Lloyd... Maybe Malcolm Kelly should wear #85.

Also, did I hear someone say that Stephon Heyer is 1st Round Talent? Meaning Chris Samuels, Jonathan Ogden, Joe Thomas talent? I watched almost all of his games at MD and all of the games last year, and I would say that he is a solid back-up/filler guy. I love him for his work ethic and how much he has improved since college, but calling him 1st round talent is absurd.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

I've been hoping for years that the Skins would hire a real GM, so I have no argument against the FO being dysfunctional and Snyder running the team like a fantasy squad.

I read the blog a lot, but don't post much. I have noted, however, in the few posts I've made, that those of you who act like Jason is not clearly and intentionally grinding an ax against Snyder, which has been thrown into high gear since Snyder's veiled diss of him in that interview last year, are fooling yourselves. And if that's the perspective he wants to have on this blog, then more power to him--but don't act like he's not "fitting facts" as someone put it earlier. I was glad to see today that so many are finally realizing the truth.

Posted by: amcginl00 | April 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas is a tall cool glass of water.

Hopefully he will restore honor to #85.

Posted by: sfskin | April 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

I give the FO an C.

Snyder: D for focusing the organization soley on WR and proving that he has man crushes on WR.

Cerrato: A+ He got the little general two WR on day one

Zorn: A+ Zorn made sure that Snyder and Cerrato had all the coffee and pillows they needed to make it through the long days

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

The RI regs may have covered this; I see Zorn using wideouts like Gregg W using safeties....he just likes to have a bunch of depth at that position in the type of scheme that he plans on using.
Hey if they are tough guys we will be fine.

Posted by: Gipped1984 | April 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

SMC_Redskin I beg to differ. B Lloyd was selfish. Kelly seemed far from that. A couple of things. When Devin Thomas was picked, Kelly texted him to congratulate him. I fact boh Thomas and Kelly have become friends, even roomed together, during the draft process. He's eager to work hard and earn his spot on the field. When asked about his forty time he said when a DB is front of him he just playa football. He has a strong family support. He had everyone including grandma there. I think he'll be fine. He may need to grow up a little, but he's only 21 so I'll reserve the negative judgement on him.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 28, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

it was a good draft. 2-3 yrs from now we'll know if it was a great draft or a bust. this is a blog so everyone just grow up

Posted by: noone from tampa | April 28, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

marlonjohn "Kelly has the arrogance to be special"

What??!!!???

Arrogance is not a trait that you need to be a great WR!! You can be like the rookie WR who spent most of his career constantly concerned about being good enough. That motivation can get a WR a long way.

Need a name to fit the description?

Hint: you can see him get inducted into the Hall in August.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

This blog is garbage. I have read and listened to grade after grade of their draft and the lowest score I have seen is a B. If anything, they have raised eyebrows with their success. What Jason is saying is completely contradictory to every single solitary thing I have heard/read by football people or media types. Jason, what tunnel are you in to think the popular opinion is the other way?

Posted by: Croftonpost | April 28, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

AL, Zeke, etc I said Athletic arrogance. That is he won't be intimated by the competition. He feels he can play and excell at this level. Big, big difference from arogance.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 28, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

AL, Zeke, etc. I also heard an interview with Monk. If you think he wasn't confident, and didn't think he believed that he could beat the dbs that covered him,you are extremely wrong.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 28, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

I'll bite ... what is athletic arrogance??

Interesting aspect to great receivers. They are often perfectionists. Rice and Monk were both that kind of person. They always believed that they needed to work extremely hard to be successful ... and fear was a big motivator for both.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

One of the better articles on Monk was an SI article written by Nack in 1992. Its a good read. Among the quotes:

"Indeed, if there is a driving force within him (Monk), a demon that has pushed him to excel, it is the self-doubt that has pursued him through most of his playing life."


http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1004188/index.htm

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

AL, Zeke, etc I think you defined it yourself. Doing the little things to be great. Think of Sean Taylor (RIP). When he came in the competition wasn't too be for him. He had burning desire to be the best at his position if not an all time great. He worked hard at his job. All that could be the definition.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 28, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

AL, Zeke, etc. Nice chatting. Gotta go.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 28, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Ok, so we are hoping that Malcolm Kelly plays like Art Monk with the desire of Sean Taylor...

If that works out then I will praise Danny Boy and VC for their excellent draft preparations and Drink all the Kool-Aid in the world until my wallet can't handle it anymore. Until then, i'm still skeptical about taking 2 wide receivers and a tight end in 1 round.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

The draft accomplished a lot, it did not address everything. We are NOT one year away from being Superbowl contenders. We should be happy to make the play-offs. Anyone here thinking Superbowl for the Skins next year is nuts.

A. Campbell has his big receivers now. We now have 2 TE's for the WCO. Our line is coming back healthly and deeper now that we needed alot of minutes from the back-ups last year. It is safe to say that the "ALL" the pieces are in places for the WCO, as the next draft comes by, we will need to draft OL. However, this offense needs to come out the gates and work, we cant have the same ineptitude we did last year with the offense. The offense will have to carry this team rather than the defense.

B. The defense is going to take a step back for sure. Had 21 still be here, I wouldnt worry about it. The facts are this, we need McIntosh to play badly, and play well. Smoot needs to hold the fort down until Rogers is fit to play. Landry is great, we need him to be greater. Doughty is just a filler until Springs can take his spot, hopefully when Rogers comes back. The line isnt horrible, just 1 position. Daniels isnt bad against the run, he is just horrible at the pass rush. We will need to draft DL and LB the next draft. Our defense wont be in the top 10, but it still should be in the top half of the league.

Offense top 10
Defense top 16

I would take that knowing that next year the offense will be better with a year under their belt, and knowing that the defensive side needs will addressed next draft.

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

can we stop calling these guys "weapons" they haven't played a down of NFL Football yet. ...

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 3:53 PM

cL, blog history question: did you ever have a dentist tell you that your teeth were "bulletproof"?

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Given the situation (new coach, new offense, no play book, young quarterback, veteran linemen, veteran RB), they probably had to keep their fingers crossed and do what they did.

Last year the defense was pretty solid. If your offense and defense are both in the top 15, you should make the playoffs easily.

Given the situation, though I'm nervous, very, very nervous.

Posted by: Stumped | April 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Anon someone who posted the link to the NFL site's draft prospect page re: Brooks Durant, thanks.

Check out this nasty that I found in the Q&A menu on Justin Tryon:

Q. When you play Madden, what team do you use? Do you put yourself on the team?

A. I use the Dallas Cowboys. That's my favorite team.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/justin-tryon?id=2321

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Didn't he make all those sexploitation movies featuring various women with generous embonpoint ?
Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 4:11 PM

'Coat, we call them Nate Bashers Up Here!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Is it Vinny or "Mr." Snyder at the controls of the 'Skins draft board?

http://www.gizoo.co.uk/Products/PCGaming/PCGadgets/USBWhackIt/Additional/lrg-4-USBWhackIt.jpg

- .250

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Is it Vinny or "Mr." Snyder at the controls of the 'Skins draft board?

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 5:25 PM

Not quite sure who posted that link, but the photo certainly is bizarre ... and startlingly relevant.

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Nate Bashers, Private Eye

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

isn't .250 self-referential? Or have I been misattributing posts these last few weeks?

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

its "extreme makeover: offense"

I can never rate a draft because I just can't project college talent to the pros. Of course, not watching college football makes it harder ...

What I can say is where the Skins have distinct needs and it seems like they missed filling those, especially on the lines. One lineman in 9 picks is not enough. 9 of 22 starters are linemen and 7 of our starters are 30+. Two of them, Kendall and Daniels are 35+. Three others, Jansen, Thomas and Griffin, have had significant injury issues in recent years.

Getting a TE, where we have a young Pro Bowl player made little sense. Getting a QB in round 6 to be a 3rd string guy made little sense because backup QBs are readily available.

Taking 2 WRs is defensible, take 2 and hope to get 1 that sticks. But not with the two top picks.

A punter? I can understand the desire to upgrade. But take a chance on a position player on OL or DL. Odds may not be great, but I'm sure there will be a lineman that turns out to be a very good player taken that low.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

A punter? I can understand the desire to upgrade. But take a chance on a position player on OL or DL. Odds may not be great, but I'm sure there will be a lineman that turns out to be a very good player taken that low.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 5:31 PM

And you probably would have really been p;ssed when Oakland drafted Ray Guy in the first round!

This was one of the best values in the draft. Why "take a chance" when you can get a sure thing?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

was hacked off yesterday, now less so as i go thru the options

maybe would have taken campbell instead of davis, tho not convinced by him - sniffs of lazy bust to me, but who knows once coaches get hold of him. still might have taken two WRs given value and who else on the board at the time. i would have taken sweed not kelly but we'll see - zorn must have done the tapes on both...

dre moore might have been less of a reach than Rhinehart. would have taken Sullivan instead of brennan, but at 186 there all dice-tosses.

between moss, thomas and kelly we'll have some fun at least, as long as JC isn't in hospital...

just want the season to start so can stop 'what iffing'...

Come on you Skins!

Posted by: michael martin | April 28, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

between moss, thomas and kelly we'll have some fun at least, as long as JC isn't in hospital...

Posted by: michael martin | April 28, 2008 5:38 PM

Dude, We've got a backup QB that can make sweet music with all these offensive "weapons."

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

cload- You're not misremembering or misattributioning.

- .250

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

I completely agree it is a "extreme makeover offense".

But that was the case once you decided to make JZ your coach. We didnt have the pieces for the WCO. No one can deny that our receiving corp is small and absolutely had an awful year last year. Plus, we have no depth this year, not that Caldwell and Thrash were anything special.

Unfortunately, the Gibbs era didnt end like it was suppose to, I blame the mass confusion that was the all the Senior/Executive/Assistant/Next in line/Really Important/ Head Coaches we had.

I'm so happy that we are rid of all the layers of crap. It should be completely clear now who to point the finger at if we fail this time.

The hiring of Zorn isnt a 5 year plan, probably a 3. As Gibbs didnt win or get to a Superbowl, the team is better now than it was when he took over, the cap is an issue but its hurdle that can be overcome.

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

I hope Campbell can make it through the season without a major injury. You know one of the O-Line will break down and thus the team will be forced to use some re-tread.

The only way this team does well this year is if the following happens:

1) O-Line stays healthy, giving Campbell time and keeping him healthy. then he can utilize the wonderful WR's the team picked.

2) D-Line stays healthy and puts pressure on opposing QB. This will make our injury prone corners more effective.

As we all know, both are big ifs.

In honor of 4-12 and the lack of depth on the O & D-lines, I am changing my name to 7-9 for next year.

Posted by: 7-9 formerly Papken75 | April 28, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

I wish I was all Kool Aid and ponies and rainbows today but let's remember what happened to us in the last two training camps.

Last year we were saying the same thing about the o-line at about this time and then the whole thing went kaflooey in August.

We've also had sustained nagging injuries to our RBs/WRs last two seasons which would make the draft make sense on the other hand are RB injuries partially due to their having to step and block due to subpar o-line?

And finally while I'm glad we have a solid back-up I'm not sure he's all that great outside the Colonel's system. So we need Soups healthy and strong.

Finally if we can't get our flingin flangin offense going then hells yeah we need a strong punter.

Just one millionth more way of saying can't really judge any/this draft till we hit the season and get through it.

Posted by: sfskin | April 28, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

I shall continue to post redundant redunacies that have been redundantly posted in posts full of redundancies.

I'm just one of the hamster herd.

Is it a herd of hamsters?
A pack?
A cluster?
A murder?
A tribe?
A muster?

Posted by: sfskin | April 28, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

any chance you will be going to the Skins game in SF? I'ld like to buy you a beer during half time.

Posted by: 7-9 | April 28, 2008 6:18 PM | Report abuse

I'm planning to be there although with the holidays one never knows but unless there is a holiday emergency yes I'll be at the Stick Dec 28.

I'd be delighted to have a beer.

Posted by: sfskin | April 28, 2008 6:26 PM | Report abuse

I think the most important thing is that the team is giving JC every opportunity to be the QB we NEED him to become. He now has an array of pass catchers with whom he can look too.

We have to realise that we're changing offense, we're going to be throwing the ball more often. Coach Zorn came from Seattle right? So our offense might look a little like theirs, so lets have a look at their team from last season.

WR-Bobby Engram
WR-Nate Burleson
WR-Deion Branch
WR-D.J. Hackett

What's going on?? They had 4 starting caliber WR's?? How ridiculous is that!!

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 6:27 PM | Report abuse

As long as you don't have a basement or drive a windowless beat-up white van.

If you wear an aluminum foil hat well that's just a style here in the Bay Area.

Posted by: sfskin | April 28, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

It turns out it's a "horde of hamsters" which seems about right.

We're a babbling horde of coked up hamsters I guess.

Posted by: sfskin | April 28, 2008 6:30 PM | Report abuse

7-9, SFSkin -- maybe catch up with you at the Skins game in late Dec. There'll probably be a high draft choice at stake.

I just want the concession for the "My Owner Sucks More Then Your Owner" t-shirts

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

I just want the concession for the "My Owner Sucks More Then Your Owner" t-shirts

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 6:47 PM


That t-shirt is a great idea! Whe should get those made and have them worn at every away game...

Posted by: 7-9 | April 28, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

It turns out it's a "horde of hamsters" which seems about right.

We're a babbling horde of coked up hamsters I guess.

Posted by: sfskin | April 28, 2008 6:30 PM

A horde of even coked up hamsters can become a super animal!!

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Can't believe we let Merling slip out of our hands. That guy was no reach at 21. They gambled he'd be there at 34 and lost.

Then they gambled again that Calais Campbell would fall to 51. Wrong again.

We could have had Merling, an instant upgrade to our pass rushing, a solid CB (several were on the board at 48)and still would have had a great selection of receivers to choose from at 51. Instead we followed Vinny's allmighty frickin board into the tank.

So we get to watch Davis and one of the two receivers sit on the bench while quarterbacks sit back and pick us apart.

Posted by: skinner | April 28, 2008 7:10 PM | Report abuse

I don't really get into bashing JLC because I think there's really good reason to be generally down on the Redskins FO. But let's look at what they didn't do - they didn't trade massive numbers of picks for useless has-beens. Instead, they actually got VALUE for their picks.

Regarding the two WRs, I have no problem with this, as usually, 50% of even your early WRs will be busts. So I see this as a two for one thing. Considering our inability to score TDs from the WR position, its hard to see why most wouldn't rate this our greatest area of need.

Regarding the TE selection over DE, yeah, I do have an issue with this. Redskins really have to wonder whether the organization has some league imposed ban against drafting a D-Lineman in the first four rounds. We're going well over a decade at this point with NO D-linemen in the first four rounds. There really is no excuse for this.

That said, if all we can really gripe about is one selection, you gotta say the Redskins' FO did a fairly good job this weekend (and really, if even one makes it from the 6th round and up, that's just great). I definitely give them a nice passing grade, even given our self-imposed decade-long ban against drafting D-Linemen. Compared to previous drafts, we should all be jumping for joy, including JLC.

Posted by: sfam | April 28, 2008 7:11 PM | Report abuse

dcsweeny...huh?:

can we stop calling these guys "weapons" they haven't played a down of NFL Football yet. ...

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 3:53 PM

cL, blog history question: did you ever have a dentist tell you that your teeth were "bulletproof"?

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 5:17 PM

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Hey all,

Been reading the blog for a while and really enjoy it except for the occasional bouts of crude abuse that show up (I'm fine with clever and/or witty abuse), but this is my first post.

In general I like the draft, though I tend to think that they should have taken Calais Campbell with the second pick. I understand that Davis may have been a better absolute value but I don't think he's a better value to us given that TE isn't a real need (two TE sets not withstanding). Also I see a lot of discussion of how Thomas and Kelly will help us get TDs in the redzone and improve the PPG, but I have to say that I think our poor redzone performance and PPG were attributable as much to the Saunders/Gibbs time of possession focus and fetish for running up the gut every play inside the 10 as to the play of Moss and ARE. Not that I think a time of possession focus is bad idea but it does tend to lead to lower scores.

On another note, I'm moving back out to San Fran pretty soon and was wondering if any of you bay area folks can recommend a skins friendly bar? This was less of a concern when I used to live there as I had the Sunday Ticket.

Posted by: nws2c | April 28, 2008 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Well the draft is over and lets face it, it could have been a lot worse. True we may not have attended the needs of the lines as much as we could have but overall it could have been a lot worse.

I mean lets face it, with Danny Boy and Vinny it would not totally surprise me if we took the kicker with our first round pick and traded the rest for Jason Taylor.

So I think we should we look at the it could've been worse situation and thank our lucky stars that we may have a decent offense this year.

HTTR and hopefully Hail VICTORY!

Posted by: Buckley skins4life | April 28, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse

hey a hardy hello and welcome to all the newbie posters, keep it up...RI is better with a multitude of voices!!!

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 7:34 PM | Report abuse

UDFA's
CB Matteral Richardson (Arkansas), DE Dorian Smith (Oregon State), LB Curtis Gatewood (Vanderbilt), OL Devin Clark (New Mexico), S Kevin Mitchell (Illinois), OL Shannon Boatman (Florida State), DE Alonzo Dotson (Oklahoma), OL Kerry Brown (Appalachian State), OL Kyle Devan (Oregon State), WR Horace Gant (St. Olaf, Minn. College), QB Bret Meyer (Iowa State), LB Bryan Wilson (Morgan State) and S Justin Scott (Purdue).

Posted by: CLEGG | April 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

From redskins.com

The Redskins have agreed to contract terms with 13 undrafted rookie free agents, the team announced on Monday.
The group of Redskins prospects includes four offensive linemen, two defensive ends and a quarterback. They join 10 rookies the team drafted in the NFL Draft on Saturday and Sunday.

Here is the complete list:


REDSKINS 2008 UNDRAFTED ROOKIES
Player Position College

Shannon Boatman OL Florida State

Kerry Brown OL Appalachian State

Devin Clark OL New Mexico

Kyle DeVan OL Oregon State

Alonzo Dotson DE Oklahoma

Horace Gant WR St. Olaf College

Curtis Gatewood LB Vanderbilt
Bret Meyer QB Iowa State

Kevin Mitchell S Illinois

Matteral Richardson CB Arkansas

Justin Scott S Purdue

Dorian Smith DE Oregon State

Bryan Wilson LB Morgan State


Shannon Boatman is a 6-5, 315-pound offensive right tackle. He also played some guard for Florida State, so he has some versatility. He started two years and is thought to be a good developmental prospect. Boatman was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at age 17, but he has been able to keep the disease in check.

Offensive lineman Kerry Brown is a 6-5, 305-pound guard from Appalachian State. He started four years and was a Division I-AA All-American. He is regarded as a tough, physical lineman who needs to fine-tune his technique.


Kyle Devan (Getty Images)
Devin Clark is a 6-3, 305-pound offensive right tackle from New Mexico. He is expected to move inside to guard at the pro level, though. He participated in national Olympic-style weightlifting competitions, so he is a strong, stout player. He may have been bypassed in the draft due to recent ankle surgery.

Kyle DeVan played mostly center at Oregon State. He was a three-year starter and registered 232 knock-down blocks overall. He stands at 6-2 and 300 pounds.

Defensive end Alonzo Dotson is 6-4 and 260 pounds. He played in 14 games with Redskins second round draft pick Malcolm Kelly last year and recorded 20 tackles and two sacks. His father Santana played for the Green Bay Packers in the 1990s and his grandfather Alphonse played for John Madden's Oakland Raiders in the 1970s.


Alonzo Dotson (Getty Images)
Horace Gant is a 6-3, 218-pound wide receiver who holds St. Olaf school records for receptions with 185, receiving yards with 3,061 and touchdowns with 27. Gant was coached by new Redskins offensive assistant Chris Meidt, who held the head coaching position at St. Olaf last year.

Curtis Gatewood is a 6-2, 248-pound outside linebacker who will likely play either the strong-side or defensive end in the pros. A four-year starter at Vanderbilt, he recorded 110 tackles, 10.5 sacks and one interception in his college career.

Quarterback Bret Meyer joins the Redskins as one of five QBs on the off-season roster. He is expected to compete with rookie draft pick Colt Brennan and first-year player Sam Hollenbach for a backup job. He completed 233-of-382 passes for nine touchdowns and 13 interceptions as a senior at Iowa State.

Safety Kevin Mitchell is a 6-0, 209-pounder who led the Big Ten in passes defended last year. He was tied for third in the Big Ten with five interceptions. He also logged 75 tackles and 11 pass deflections. Mitchell is not related to the late Redskins linebacker Kevin Mitchell.

Matteral Richardson is 5-11, 194 pounds and regarded as physical cornerback and sound tackler. He started three years at Arkansas, finishing with 180 tackles, 27 pass break-ups and four interceptions. Nicknamed "Red," he should compete for a special teams job early on.

Safety Justin Scott was a two-year starter at Purdue. Last year, the 6-0, 209-pounder recorded 73 tackles, one sack and three interceptions.

Defensive end Dorian Smith played two years at Oregon State as a junior college transfer, but started just one season. The 6-1, 264-pounder recorded 72 tackles, 22 tackles for a loss and 15 sacks.

Bryan Wilson is a 6-3, 250-pound outside linebacker who earned 2007 All-MEAC first-team defense honors. He logged 50 tackles, a team-high seven sacks and a league-high six forced fumbles. Wilson hails from Temple Hills, Md. He attended the Redskins' local college workout.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 7:44 PM | Report abuse

No wonder JLC hates on the skins. He couldn't even get the info on the UDFA

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the UDFA update - been waiting for that!

Too bad we didnt get any of the local ones from MD, UVA and Va Tech though ... were some really good prospects left there that went to other teams :(

Posted by: Mike C. | April 28, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

The skins were prepared to draft a DE twice in the draftm but the team picked the same player right before they picked.

Greg Blache didn't like the talent left in the 5/6 round to pick a DE.

This again is from redskins.com

So much for JLC being a insider.

Posted by: J | April 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Report abuse

hey a hardy hello and welcome to all the newbie posters, keep it up...RI is better with a multitude of voices!!!

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 7:34 P

cL must have ingested some Soma. Sure he might say something like this, but the tone is soooo non-cRhis lArry.

Posted by: Stumped | April 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

just watched NFL live...didn't mention Skins draft once in either a positive or negative manner......

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 8:01 PM | Report abuse

sure are a lot of geeks up here.

Posted by: JBL | April 28, 2008 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Stumped how is this:

JBL your siht is getting old, at least think of a new line d-bag...

"J", what are you a tard? redskin.com is owned by the team, of course their going to get the choice quotes and inside word, THE REPORTERS ARE ON THE PAYROLL AND THE COACHES HAVE TO TALK....

Try thinking before you diherea type

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

WR-Bobby Engram
WR-Nate Burleson
WR-Deion Branch
WR-D.J. Hackett

What's going on?? They had 4 starting caliber WR's?? How ridiculous is that!!

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 6:27 PM

Listing those 4 as "starting caliber" would be no different than listing ARE, Moss, Caldwell, and Mccardell as 4 "starting-caliber" receivers. In fact, as a healthy group, I'd give the latter the higher grade.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Dave(Charlotte, NC): Who had the best draft in the NFC East?

Matt Williamson: I give the Skins credit for really attacking a need and getting three quality big physical pass catchers for Campbell. Good to see them helping out their QB.

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

When is the next caps game?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Not sure if some has said anything about this yet - but have you all seen the OL-men we signed as UDFA? I'm sure Buges will have no problem turning 1 of them into a starting caliber player......Our Oline is getting pretty thick these days....

Posted by: BigMurf08 | April 28, 2008 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Pinch-hitting for Dorf, on the subject of UDFAs: "Uff da!"

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Muchbetta.

Posted by: Stumped | April 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Nate,
There's a Beavers game in our future.
Can you and lil-Nate abide the relaxation?

Posted by: Stumped | April 28, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

WR-Bobby Engram
WR-Nate Burleson
WR-Deion Branch
WR-D.J. Hackett

What's going on?? They had 4 starting caliber WR's?? How ridiculous is that!!

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 6:27 PM

Listing those 4 as "starting caliber" would be no different than listing ARE, Moss, Caldwell, and Mccardell as 4 "starting-caliber" receivers. In fact, as a healthy group, I'd give the latter the higher grade.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 8:13 PM


You reckon? Granted Seattle throw the ball more than we do, but here are last years stats-

Player Gms Rec Rec/gm TD TD/gm

Engram 16 94 5.8 6 .37
Burleson 16 50 3.1 9 .56
Branch 11 49 4.4 4 .36
Hackett 6 32 5.3 3 .5
Moss 14 61 4.3 3 .2
Randle-El 15 51 3.4 1 .06
McCardell 10 22 2.2 1 .1
Caldwell 8 15 1.8 0 0.0

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 8:37 PM | Report abuse

We picked up a Maryland kid, a RB named Keon Lattimore. He should at least be able to beat out that lazy "Half" back with the girlie name. I'll keep you updated.

Other than than, it appears we were going for smart guys...two Stanfords, a Hahvahd, a William and Mary (won't do now) and a Hampton.

Posted by: SMACK | April 28, 2008 8:37 PM | Report abuse

is getting pretty thick these days....

Posted by: BigMurf08 | April 28, 2008 8:21 PM

Thats what she said

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

It's amazing how we're talking about not drafting a DE...

Mario Williams can't score TD's...Strahan and U--men--yor--a make a difference, but to win that Super Bowl Manning had to throw the football. Santana Moss would not have made that catch David Tyree made.

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Stumped, one of those 2pm Sunday starts would be awesome. Like me, Nathan Jr. loves an outing to the ballpark. Let's roll.

Beaver Fever... catch it!

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

I was doing a little research on the UDFA's and they all seem to be legit players. Some were even supposed to go in the draft. I know this is true most years, but I guess the point I wanna make is that it seems that the covered all of the so called needs that they had. The got some OL's some DL's some secondary help (the kid from Oklahoma was decent this past year) some LB's. Wow what they did not draft they picked Undrafted guys to fill.

See all the poeple that whinned yesterday just needed to be patient. All of the guys may turn out to be training camp fodder, but hey what did you really lose.

Posted by: Skip in VA | April 28, 2008 8:42 PM | Report abuse

How could they let Erin Henderson get away from them?

Posted by: jt515 | April 28, 2008 8:44 PM | Report abuse

sicwidit, you don't agree that, after months of general agreement (up here AND in what we heard from the team about priorities/needs) it was strange that we exercised eight picks, and 31 defensive linemen were selected by other teams, before we picked a D lineman? Doesn't seem odd to you at all?

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Skip in VA---

I was saying the same thing yesterday. Realistically, if even 4 of those guys make the team, we'd be set.

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Let's see, I'll need to check the forecast and schedule to see when the two will mutually promote said event and like such as...


Posted by: Stumped | April 28, 2008 8:46 PM | Report abuse

JLC has some good points, but it's hard to paint this draft as a failure for the 'skins at least in terms of individual talent. Let's review JLC's review. About Thomas, JLC wrote:
"He was the one WR the Skins would seriously think about at the end of the day with the 21st pick. This is very good value for someone who had a first round rating at this position from many teams and is well suited to the West Coast offense. Tampa and Philly took a long look at him in the first round."

That would imply that several other "respected" teams also considered Thomas a potential first round pick, and the 'skins got him in the second round. Huge value pick.

They drafted the best punter in the draft with a 6th rounder.

They got a good backup guard/tackle in the 3rd round.

Overall, they addressed every area of need except the interior of the D-line, where they have two young starters entering their prime.

JLC's insider view of the making of the draft board that pushed receivers higher and higher based on issues other than pure talent is interesting, and instructive. It shows there are still the same tendencies for this front office to get carried away with its desires sometimes. But no one in the media has said that the 'skins overreached on any of their picks.

So I think from a talent standpoint, and from the perspective of emphasizing the draft (a huge departure for this FO), this draft has to be considered a success so far.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:49 PM | Report abuse

sic,

Blog foul for pumping Tyree, a career nobody with one lucky catch, over our man Santana who has provided many highlights for skins.

C'mon man I know you got a point to grind in your theory mortal & pestal, but devaluing D-lineman? If Giants dont pressure Brady it doesn't matter what LBM does. And you dog a warrior skin in the process.....man take a breather

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 8:49 PM | Report abuse

How could they let Erin Henderson get away from them?

Posted by: jt515 | April 28, 2008 8:44 PM

Sween pointed out yesterday that he's gone to Minnesota, which is where his brother plays. Not too much we can do about that.

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 8:49 PM | Report abuse

I agree Nate that we could have drafted one a bit higher, but I don't think a DE will make or break our season. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a stud DE, but I just think there are people piling on this point because it's easy.

Not having a DE is not the reason why the Redskins lost against the Seahawks. I will say this though. Who knows how Blache will do without pressure on the QB...so your point is well taken.

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

very simple -

OUR WR'S HAD 7 TD'S LAST YEAR!

SM - 3
ARE - 1
JT - 2
KM - 1

Our first pass for a TD didn't happen until 1/2 way thru the season??

We have has been's Rache Caldwell, James Thrash and Keanen Mcardell on the team!!

we were 9-7 in the regular season -
6 of the sven losses were by 7 pts or less!!

we had a top 10 Defense - and all those guys are coming back.

WE need a little more offense - the D to remain the same and we're in the mix..

Posted by: vincentvega | April 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Give Snyder and Vinny a break!

Dano's only had the team for a decade or so.
Vinny's only been a fetch-a-lot-wide-eyed-boy for 30-some years too.

This franchise under the midget owner/GM is after all the only team in the NFL owned by a four-footer, cut the dude some slack!

He's only spent more than any other NFL team in that time on both players and coaches. And look what he's got in return. A team that underachieves yet fills his cash coffers at a record pace.

As long as the extreme youthful (and usually drunken) fans fill his ( I mean JK Cooke's) stadium, he will buy bigger cigars and dole out more money for nothing than any other owner.

We laud the little tyke for it (or is that tick)?

Posted by: bulldog | April 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Mario Williams can't score TD's
Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 8:41 PM

http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2007/09/09/williams-the-difference-in-texans-20-3-win-over-chiefs/

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:54 PM | Report abuse

typical comments from hockey boy, why does the post have someone on the skins beat that does not even like the game? Let Jason La Douche write about hockey - maybe we will all be happier.

Posted by: joe | April 28, 2008 8:54 PM | Report abuse

C'mon Chris...I know Santana is a warrior, but we need more diversity in our weapons. If one of those receivers is on the field this year, it makes things easy for Moss. Any Redskins fan could see that our current receivers needed an upgrade. Santana will always be my boy for the Dallas game.

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I AM NOT DEVALUING D-LINEMAN!!!! I'm just saying let's see the rest of the offseason play out before we doo-doo on the FO...

Sorry...I'm just not a hater like many!

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Sween pointed out yesterday that he's gone to Minnesota, which is where his brother plays. Not too much we can do about that.

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 8:49 PM

kost,

We should have picked him at the end of the seventh. Once you draft a guy, he's going no where.

Posted by: talent evaluator | April 28, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse

don't disagree, biut when you compare Tyree to moss...I want to puke....I live in NYC I am familiar w/ Tyree's body of work.....

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Trading down for value is a good idea. BUT... you trade down in talent at the same time.

The draft is pretty efficient in prioritizing talent, but just over-pays for those first rounders.

Trading down is good if you get the players you want (you pay less).

We picked up an extra pick in one of those trades and paid less for those we selected.

The WRs, TE and P are bound to make the team. I'm not too sure about the others.


Posted by: Stumped | April 28, 2008 8:57 PM | Report abuse

I am filled with athletic arrogance. The 'Skins should sign me!

Posted by: Lekelvis Melvin | April 28, 2008 8:58 PM | Report abuse

I think Erin Henderson had a torn ACL, we've got a LB with one of those already!!!

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Sween pointed out yesterday that he's gone to Minnesota, which is where his brother plays. Not too much we can do about that.

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 8:49 PM

And if all 13 of them make it we'd be in paradise! (Or, deep doo-doo)

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

I love how having an opinion or being anyalytical is now a "Hater"

Sic, you came with a weak arguement, had to be challenged. We all love the skins, its not a how much do you love the skins p+ssing contest.

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

I never come weak baby!!! My logic is above you mortal earthlings.

Posted by: sciwidit | April 28, 2008 9:02 PM | Report abuse

TE, I thought jt515 was talking about UDFA. You're probably right though, I reckon LB is our shallowest position at the moment. Who knows though, once cuts start getting made, we might be able to pick up a vet or two to provide us some depth.

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Sic,

I didnt realize they played football on/in Uranus!

Hahahaha I kid I kid...

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Report abuse

when do the caps play again?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Kost, Don't get me wrong -- I loved the draft. But, it might have been a good idea to force Henderson to sign with us there at the end of the seventh round. LB is a position of need, but there will be some cut, soon, now that the draft is over. They'll be out on the street along with Frost.

Posted by: talent evaluator | April 28, 2008 9:08 PM | Report abuse

But seriously, this team is no where near as bad as many make it seem. I don't care how they got to the playoffs, all I know is we were playing in December...two out of four years. I'll take it...

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

when do the caps play again?

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 9:06 PM

Hockey? In October. Golf, probably tomorrow, if it clears up. Christ, work up some new material.

Posted by: SMACK | April 28, 2008 9:14 PM | Report abuse

TE, Yeah, I agree, maybe the failed late round LB's of the past couple of years, with the exception of HB, scared them off.

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 9:14 PM | Report abuse

It's been awhile. I'll say this: I was thinking that JLC was going a bit overboard on the negative stuff until he started talking about Indianapolis.

If anyone is wondering which way to sway, or isn't quite 100% sure about how they feel about the drafting of 2 wrs and 1 te (stop generalizing about them all being "pass catchers"--very different skill sets), that piece about Indianapolis should raise eyebrows. I didn't watch much of the draft because I have three kids (just had twin girls in January), so I read the espn rankings and expected to see the D- that I feel like we always earn. When I saw the B+ I was intrigued. I looked at the other grades and then looked in detail at what some of the other teams did--especially the ones with good fo's.

Indianapolis took lineman.. I can't read the article again because it looks like espn wants me to pay. But think about what Indianapolis did to us last time we played them. Think about how Todd Collins could barely stand in the pocket when we played Seattle. The NFL is decided in the trenches. Great coaching can get the most out of what they have. That squeaked us into the playoffs a couple of times in the past few years, but I can't help but think about the stories of the oldest lineman ever being pulled out of retirement to play for us, or the guy who plays both O and D line like high school. Sorry, we have more injuries for a reason. Our players are old. Good teams, generally, don't have to sign guys off the street to fill critical positions at the end of the season. JLC is smart to say that the fo could look smart after the Redskins dominate, but I don't see it happening. We finally have all of the draft picks we're supposed to have and we pull this stunt. Huge gamble. Just of a different nature this time. We've gambled our future--big time.

Posted by: nyskinsfan | April 28, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Sic, you came with a weak arguement, had to be challenged. We all love the skins, its not a how much do you love the skins p+ssing contest.

Posted by: chris larrY | April 28, 2008 8:59 PM

I p!ssed my pants when we did not get Jordy Nelson. But after we got the punter, i was OK again...

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

nyskinsfan,

The trouble with you and JLC is that you both want the Redskins to fix all their problems in a single draft. Can't be done. They fixed the worst ones this year. Next year they can fix some more.

You and JLC are both "win it all now" guys. Doesn't work that way, dude.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

FIRST DOWN

Portis at RB, two TE's WRs are Davis, ARE and Moss.

NEXT DOWN:

Portis at RB, Cooley, ARE, Kelly, MOSS and DAVIS receiving.

NEXT DOWN

Sellers RB TWO TEs Kelly and Moss


Now how do you cover that?

Run a hurry up NO HUDDLE and they have to cover that with a BASE DEFENSE...or a NICKLE, which opens up the run.

This will be an EXCITING offense.


Posted by: corkczar | April 28, 2008 12:07 PM

You know how you cover your 1st and 2nd down formations by getting 12 men on the field penalties because you have 6 positions listed then add campbell that's seven and 5 lineman for 12 men on the field your 3rd down is okay but unless you are only putting 4 lineman on the field your 1st and 2nd down formations are wrong and just stupid

Posted by: Tim | April 28, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

nyskinsfan--

Indianapolis took three centers. And that's what you and Jasno want the 'Skins to be like? We've already got a good center. We were weak at receiver and at TE. Now we're not.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Win it all now? Read what Indianapolis did and why and get back to me no-name lame poster.

Posted by: nyskinsfan | April 28, 2008 9:46 PM | Report abuse

Read what Indianapolis did and why and get back to me no-name lame poster.

Posted by: nyskinsfan | April 28, 2008 9:46 PM

I read what they did. They took three centers. Yeah, the 'Skins would look a lot better if we'd taken three centers in the second round like Indiannoplace.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

I don't generally like what's written on espn.com, but here's what someone on the same site that gave us a B+ said:

There's a reason why coach Tony Dungy and general manager Bill Polian have had such a successful tenure in Indianapolis. They're always thinking one, maybe even two, steps ahead of everyone else. Without a first-round pick (they traded it to San Francisco last year to get tackle Tony Ugoh), Dungy and Polian didn't try to make up for it by reaching for an immediate need in the second round.


With the No. 59 overall pick, they drafted Arizona State center Mike Pollack, who really was the best player on the Colts' draft board. The Colts already have a very solid center in Jeff Saturday, but he is getting older.

The beauty of this move is Pollack will get to spend a season learning from Saturday and the Colts won't have to draft a center next year


No name--identify yourself and say something smart.

Posted by: nyskinsfan | April 28, 2008 9:48 PM | Report abuse

No name--you killed your argument when you wrote that JLC and I are invoking a 'win it all now' mentality. What's more 'win it all' three olineman or two wrs and a te?

Weak at te? Chris Cooley. We were only weak at te if we've just hired a new head coach who is introducing an entirely new offense--which is what is happening.

Posted by: nyskinsfan | April 28, 2008 9:52 PM | Report abuse

I think it's hilarious how much sh*t JLAC gets from all the diaper-wearing skins fans. Quit crying and realize that the team you love is being run by a collection of retards treating this once-glorious franchise as their fantasy football team. They're all idiots. And so are you.

-Go Skins (Despite Snyder and his collection of @ss wipers)

Posted by: Boyer the Destroyer | April 28, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

nyskinsfan,

What's more win it all now is you and JLC who think that the 'Skins should solve every problem on the team in just one draft. Can't be done, my aptly named friend. You have to take what the draft gives you, and the 'Skins did well this year solving problems at WR and TE. As you yourself pointed out, with a new offense comes new needs.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 9:58 PM | Report abuse

The Pats didn't draft any linemen, Off. or Def. Does that mean they did they wrong thing? The Colts took 2 WR's in last years draft, including a 1st rounder.

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Did I say they should solve every problem with the draft? No. Should they try to address more than one problem with the first three picks? Yes.

Win it all now? How about overpaying for TJ Duckett or Adam Archuletta or Brandon Lloyd or Bruce Smith or Deion Sanders or Jeff George....etc? What am I talking about that's 'win it all now'? Drafting three olineman? I just showed you that what I admire is the forward thinking nature of the colts. I'm not going to argue with you anymake lame no-name poster. You're hopeless.

Posted by: nyskinsfan | April 28, 2008 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Yes, the Redskins have had a fundamental flaw in their cavalier attitude towards the draft and building within. This draft was good in that they picked up some pieces that will stick around in our system. We also got them on the cheap, all 3 2nd rounders will be signed for less guaranteed money than if we had just the #21 pick to pay.

But, we need to continue building through the draft.

We arent Indy. We arent New England. We do not have the luxury of drafting back-ups when we have so many holes and a new offensive scheme that requires players we just dont have.

I guarantee the object of the draft was to make sure Zorn has his tools to be successful with the WCO. That way if for some reason the offense stinks after game 6, blame goes to Zorn and away from Cerrato and Snyder.

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 10:06 PM | Report abuse

I'mbaffled by the NE draft as much as you are. Can only assume they're so deep in both lines that they're not worried about it.

Posted by: nyskinsfan | April 28, 2008 10:07 PM | Report abuse

One could get more football knowledge from a knitting blog, just a bunch of mouth breathing short bus riders here.

Posted by: c-lo | April 28, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

nyskinsfan, congrats on the twin girls! And I thought one baby at a time was tough -- hats off to you and (mrs. nyskinsfan?) for making the big leap from one to three.

I'm with you on linemen... scratching my head over how we drafted, and really really hoping they made more right choices than wrong.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:13 PM | Report abuse

This team has been mismanaged for so many years. I had spreadsheet of all the dumbs trades of picks for players we've made over the years... Its downright embarrassing...

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Nate, see the mighty Cats have continued on from last season, 6-0 start!

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 10:31 PM | Report abuse

My Biew on the Draft:

Great A++....now we got our offense set..

NEXT year we will have a TOP 10 pick..draft a d-line men in the first an o-line men iwht that high 2nd rounder...next year we take care of the lines and a little linbacker could help too..

long-term..our offnse and defense should be great..

HAIL REDSKINS

Posted by: Fulvio | April 28, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

For everyone that keeps harping on the lack of line prospects drafted try to keep things in perspective. Rinehart is going to make the roster. There are 4 undrafted free agent OL signed, who knows what we have there. If even 1 pans out you got 2 young guys to go along with Heyer. We still don't know what they are intending to do with Lo Alexander. Maybe they see things in Chris Wilson or Alex Buzbee developing like Montgomery did last year. He didn't even sniff the field his first year. We can't fix every hole with 1 draft. It isn't ideal to have that DE rotation on the other side but it will be enough to get by for 1 more season. 2008 is gonna hinge on JC's development in this offense. With all the weapons we now have on offense hopefully not every game is gonna have to be a defensive struggle. Hail to the Skins, Hail the die hard fans and even hail all the crybaby fans that have raided this board the last 3 days.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: corkczar | April 28, 2008 12:07 PM

You know how you cover your 1st and 2nd down formations by getting 12 men on the field penalties because you have 6 positions listed then add campbell that's seven and 5 lineman for 12 men on the field your 3rd down is okay but unless you are only putting 4 lineman on the field your 1st and 2nd down formations are wrong and just stupid

Posted by: Tim | April 28, 2008 9:40 PM


Gee, I'm sorry Tim, I'd assumed you'd assume I know the Maroon & Black aren't playing in Canada (yet) and would realize I meant the coach gets to CHOOSE among the three wideouts on the plays in question.

Silly me, I forgot the name of the game here is GOTCHA!.

Posted by: corkczar | April 28, 2008 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Jla has no sources; everybody knows that.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 12:16 PM

He's got no sources, ANON posters got no Balls. I'd call that a push, you gutless wonder...

Posted by: Corkczar | April 28, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think most objective observers are giving the Redskins at this point good marks on the draft.

We needed additional weapons given Santana's injuries and ARE being more suited for #3 role. I'm willing to bet that either Devin or Malcolm will pan out and if both of them do, we're going to have a monster receiving corps. Look at what NE accomplished with Moss, Stallworth, and what's his name. Damn I'm getting old, can't remember the cat's name now.

Very quietly the Redskins have assembled decent depth at every position. Yes, every position. Maybe they don't have a plethora of pro bowl players, but they have some very solid starters and good backups everywhere now. On offense they have a wide variety of weapons now. The D Line Draft ADvocates seem to forget how well Montgomery and Golston are playing in the middle, that Cornelius is still bringing it, and AC had ten plus sacks last year. ONly Daniels needs to be upgraded, and the kid Chris Wilson may really break out. They also like the Georgetown kid Alex Buzbee who apparently has tremendous speed off the edge.

And while O line is older, very quietly again we've got younger folks to serve as backups if Jansen, Samuels, and/or Thomas go down-- Chad Rinehart coming in, Heyer a surprise, and Lorenzo Alexander.

It was a good draft. Let's see if Zorn can coach the team up now.

Posted by: chrisjohn91@hotmail.com | April 28, 2008 10:45 PM | Report abuse

ANON posters got no Balls. I'd call that a push, you gutless wonder...

Posted by: Corkczar | April 28, 2008 10:42 PM

That might be the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. I think it's a safe bet your real name isn't 'Corkszar'.

Posted by: jabedoben | April 28, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

his names Wes Welker

Posted by: chrisjohn91@hotmail.com | April 28, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty comfortable with our O Line. Last season we had 9 OL on our roster, this year it could look like this.

1-C.Samuels
2-P.Kendall
3-C.Rabach
4-R.Thomas
5-J.Jansen
6-S.Heyer
7-C.Rinehart
8-L.Alexander (Assuming this is where he plays this year)
9-J.Fabini/T.Wade

Posted by: kost52 | April 28, 2008 10:52 PM | Report abuse

I had no idea making up a blog handle gave both balls and guts. Thanks for clearing that up sir. I'm an internet tough guy.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 10:52 PM | Report abuse

The way you judge this draft is by who makes the team. 10 picks with 9 having a real good shot at making the team. That equals immediate depth. All 22 starters are projected to be starters. So who are the odd men out?

Here's the draft:
WR Devin Thomas (3rd WR - replaces B. Lloyd)
TE Fred Davis (2nd TE - kicks Yoder to 3rd or off the team, don't forget Tyler Ecker)
WR Malcom Kelly (4th WR - leaves Thrash, Mix, Matthis or McMullen to fight for 5th)
OT Chad Rinehart (Dockery was a 3rd round selection - replaces who? Heyer, Alexander, Fabini, Sampson or Wade)
CB Justin Tryon (fights Eubanks and Westbrook for 5th corner)
P Durant Brooks (No more frosties.)
DB Kareem Moore (3rd or 4th safety, Fox is 3rd)
QB Colt Brennan (3rd QB)
DE Rob Jackson (fights Buzbee or Wilson for rush end spot)
FS Chris Horton (3rd or 4th safety)

So who's gone? Young guys who just made the team last year and maybe veteran special teams guys. This draft fills positions of need but are the guys good enough and can they be coached up?

Posted by: bangkokben | April 28, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

ANON posters got no Balls. I'd call that a push, you gutless wonder...

Posted by: Corkczar | April 28, 2008 10:42 PM

That might be the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. I think it's a safe bet your real name isn't 'Corkszar'.

Posted by: jabedoben | April 28, 2008 10:46 PM

It's not Corkcsar, its' Corkczar. Is jabedoben your first name or last?

Posted by: Corkczar | April 28, 2008 11:02 PM | Report abuse

"Anyone who tries to tell you they can judge a draft immediately is full on bunk. It'll be a couple of years - or at least one - before we can really start to see who hits home runs and who struck out."

That's the only part of this post I agree with - much too gloom and doom while they're barely introducing the new skins. The skins obviously had a plan and went with it. Only time will tell whether it works or not. I would've liked another DL too but for the first time in a reaaaally long time it seems like they selected a bunch of players who might actually stick around.

The Davis selection surprised me too but to say we shouldn't have taken him because we have Yoder is nuts. Yoder's serviceable not much more.

Posted by: mtnskinsfan | April 28, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Kinda snuck up on me, but with Double Word Score (that would be Prioleau) gone, we're down to two safeties on the roster.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Enufffff w/ the O-Line crap. When healthy, we have a top 5 Line in the niffle. If Buugggsss can turn the junk replacements we've had into decent replacements, he certainly can mold a few of these young boys into a player. Remember Joe Jacoby??? Heyer was serviceable...

Posted by: CLEGG | April 28, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

Cload & Daggar,

I think Fox is still on the roster.... ( atleast for the time being ) Landry and Doughty the other two. I think they will keep at least 2 others. Safeties are going to be fun to watch this summer.

Posted by: CLEGG | April 28, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

So who's gone? Young guys who just made the team last year and maybe veteran special teams guys. This draft fills positions of need but are the guys good enough and can they be coached up?

Posted by: bangkokben | April 28, 2008 10:57 PM

If da Skins are going to go whole hog with the 3 WR/1 TE or 2 WR/2 TE offense, I don't see much opportunity for large, grid it out fullback. If I'm Mike Sellars, I'm not liking the Zorn era.

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Enufffff w/ the O-Line crap. When healthy, we have a top 5 Line in the niffle. If Buugggsss can turn the junk replacements we've had into decent replacements, he certainly can mold a few of these young boys into a player. Remember Joe Jacoby??? Heyer was serviceable...

Posted by: CLEGG | April 28, 2008 11:13 PM

I'm going to guess that your Skins draft grade is at least an A, right?

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse

One other interesting draft conversation topic.

1. Do you agree or disagree with allowing Caleb Campbell to be able to train/play for the Detroit Lions without having to serve some amount of time in a forward deployment area?
2. If Caleb Campbell makes the Lions and plays at least two years with that team (or any other NFL team), should he be exempted from further forward deployment service?

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

I'll re-word the second question to reduce bias

2. If Caleb Campbell makes the Lions and plays at least two years with that team (or any other NFL team), do you agree/disagree with him being exempted from further forward deployment service?

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse

just poop

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

According to NFL.com last year the Redskins were ranked number 20 in sacks allowed at 29. The high was 55 (KC) and the low was 16 (NO). Some other notables:
NE - 21
Colts - 23
Dallas - 25 (didn't they have 3 pro bowl lineman).
Eagles - 49

Considering the stats I would say a team that lost their RG and RT for most of season didn't fair too bad and must have some talent behind the starters

Posted by: mbearden | April 28, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

ADAM,
O-Lineman are a dime a dozen and can be made into a certain mold, if they have basic skills. Unlike, a true skills position. You can't teach a receiver how to catch or RB how to read a hole opening. Joe Bugel has a great rep. in doing just that. Once again, when healthy top 5 line. 2007, We lost 2 starters in the 1st two games.

Posted by: CLEGG | April 28, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Adam, I'm curious why the Army would allow Campbell, at this time, to go and play the football instead of being deployed or whatever would assignment would otherwise await him after graduation. They must see his football career as an opportunity for positive public relations, right?

Can't help thinking about Napoleon McCallum and Roger Staubach and I'm sure there are plenty of other dudes, who served their time and then joined the NFL. I'm no Staubach lover, but the dude apparently volunteered for service in 'Nam. That seems a little more, ah, heroic than choosing the Lions over Afghanistan or Iraq.

I can't help thinking that some other poor schlub will be shipping out in Campbell's place. And I can't help wondering how this will all play in Detroit, a city which (like every city in the US of A) has sent many of its sons and daughters to war over the years.

But whatever, lucky Caleb Campbell. Good luck to him making the team and all that. Seriously.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

we needed receivers and another te... moss and ARE are getting old and not the long term answers... these new guys were an investment in JC which should make skins fans happy... wake up people

Posted by: boot1 | April 29, 2008 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Also, Adam, thanks a bazillion for making me wonder whether we're going to cut Mike Sellers. Really, really appreciate your planting THAT worry in my head. Crap.

Could someone slip over to the Park and peruse some of Zorn's new playbook, to see if any of the plays call for a person with FB skills? It probably hasn't been put to paper yet, so check the dry erase boards in the meeting rooms.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Adam,

You may be right about Sellers, but Mack Strong was a Pro-Bowler for Seattle. It's about multiple packages. Everyone from Sellers to Moss to Portis to Cooley will have to check their ego at the door.

Lookin' back on Joe Jackson Gibbs' eye for talent..

During Gibbs 2.0 - the 'skins had 21 draft picks. Currently there are 11 on the team - 12 if you count the ghost of #21. Two are barely on the team (TE Tyler Ecker and RB Nehemiah Broughton). That leaves 7 starters and two reserves: Laron Landy FS, Rocky MacIntosh WLB, Anthony Montgomery DT, Reed Doughty SS, Carlos Rogers CB, Jason Campbell QB, Chris Cooley TE; H.B. Blades LB and Kedrick Golston DT are back-ups. Defense: five starters, two reserves. Offense: two starters.

Also during Gibbs 2.0, free agency yielded 9 starters - six on defense and three on offense: (Sean Springs CB, Phillip Daniels DE, Cornelius Griffin DT, Andre Carter DE, Marcus Washington SLB, London Fletcher MLB, Antwaan Randle El WR, Mike Sellers FB and Casey Rabach C.

Gibb also made trades for 3 offensive starters: RB Clinton Portis, WR Santana Moss, and LG Pete Kendall.

Only drafted tackles Jon Jansen and Chris Samuels and free agent guard Randy Thomas were acquired before Gibbs 2.0.

He built this team. So can Zorn steer this ship?

Posted by: bangkokben | April 29, 2008 12:08 AM | Report abuse

Nate, if it makes you feel any better, Seattle's FB's caught 48 balls last year. Granted, they had HB struggles, and their TE's aren't as good as ours, but I guess it shows that FB is likely to still be an important part of the offense.

Posted by: kost52 | April 29, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

ADAM,
O-Lineman are a dime a dozen and can be made into a certain mold, if they have basic skills.

CLEGG

I'll agree that basic skills plus a lot of molding equals a serviceable player. However, there's a sizable gap between serviceable and good, and NFL history has proven that the better the team's line play, the better its chances to make/win in the post season. Yes, the Skins needed receivers badly, but I think they would have been better served picking only 2 players out of their 3 receiver trio and going for an OL or DL with the remaining pick.

I'm also not sold on the idea that all of the Skins older, injured linemen are going to return to pre-injury form (not even to say injury free in 2008). Older may equal wiser, but it also seems to equal more injury prone as well.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse

1. Above comment mine
2. If Sellers and the 3 yard check down are staying, then the axe has got to fall on at least 2 (or more) existing RBs, yes?

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 29, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

Ah, yes, Mack Strong. Thanks for that, kost. I think Adam was just winding us up with that, since he knows Sellers is just about universally beloved.

Or maybe it's that in Reid's version of the offense the fullbacks don't get a lot of touches?

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse

Nate, not winding you up,just wondering what Sellers role might be in the Zorn WC offense. But you are right, in the Eagles version of the WC offense, FBs aren't on the field much, and they are catching a very limited # of passes.

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 29, 2008 12:36 AM | Report abuse

My 2 cents

No Fred Davis and see how well/poorly Mike Sellers would work as a TE

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 29, 2008 12:38 AM | Report abuse

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/dr_z/04/28/draft.roundup/1.html

Dr. Z:

"Washington Redskins: The first four picks and five of the first eight went for offensive players, with a punter thrown in. Never mind that age is creeping into the defense, and the death of free safety Sean Taylor left that unit depleted, so why ... ah, why bother?"

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Well, we know Iron Mike can catch the ball and has a nose for the end zone.

And we sure to like to see him make a catch in the open field and then turn upfield, looking to punish whatever poor sap drew the short straw and is responsible for stopping him.

Hopefully Zorn sees him as an asset and not some vestige of the archaic Gibbs system with its dated "H-back."

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 12:44 AM | Report abuse

2. If Sellers and the 3 yard check down are staying, then the axe has got to fall on at least 2 (or more) existing RBs, yes?

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 29, 2008 12:32 AM

I don't think so, just going from last year's roster numbers, we started the season with 3 HB's, 2 FB's, & 3 TE's.

That could easily be-

HB-C.Portis
HB-L.Betts
HB-M.Mason
FB-M.Sellers
FB-R.Cartwright
TE-C.Cooley
TE-F.Davis
TE-T.Yoder/T.Ecker

I guess being in a WCO might encourage us to have an extra WR, but the versatility of Lornzo Alexander might be able to get us that extra spot.

Posted by: kost52 | April 29, 2008 12:44 AM | Report abuse

Adam,

I truly beleive that C Campbell should serve his term in the Army before playing FB in the pros. Many that have completed the term at west point could have a change of heart as to where their career should be but are not allowed that option. There was a great FB in Arizona that decided that serving your country was more important.

I served my time in the service and am glad and proud of the time I spent in the Marine Corps. I may be biased, but that is my opinion.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 12:52 AM | Report abuse

thanks for pointing out that Fox is still on the roster, although in my defense when I see 'V. Fox (S)', I think "ahh, Special Teams".

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 29, 2008 12:52 AM | Report abuse

He's got no sources, ANON posters got no Balls. I'd call that a push, you gutless wonder...

Posted by: Corkczar | April 28, 2008 10:42 PM

Agree to Agree!

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 12:53 AM | Report abuse

I guess being in a WCO might encourage us to have an extra WR, but the versatility of Lornzo Alexander might be able to get us that extra spot.

Posted by: kost52 | April 29, 2008 12:44 AM

Kost, I think that with the young guys we drafted and their returning skills, the Rock's days are numbered. If Nemo is healthy he may have that second FB spot.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 12:55 AM | Report abuse

re: Caleb Campbell
Figure that the Army needs to have a few good men out there in the public eye, and that he'd be more valuable as a recruiting tool in the NFL than a 2nd Lieutenant in Mosul.
It's not the fairest thing in the world, but who said life was fair.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 29, 2008 12:56 AM | Report abuse

Kost, I think that with the young guys we drafted and their returning skills, the Rock's days are numbered. If Nemo is healthy he may have that second FB spot.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 12:55 AM

Could be on the mark there mate, he's a good KR, and we all love him, but Rock doesn't hold much value as an actual FB.

Posted by: kost52 | April 29, 2008 1:04 AM | Report abuse

This team has been mismanaged for so many years. I had spreadsheet of all the dumbs trades of picks for players we've made over the years... Its downright embarrassing...

Posted by: JSchon | April 28, 2008 10:14 PM

Yes, please post that list! A comparison of players traded to the Skins vs the draft picks actually selected by the recipient teams would be pretty interesting...

Posted by: Siris | April 29, 2008 1:07 AM | Report abuse

It sure will be interesting to see how many 'skilled' guys are kept especially with the injuries to the o-line last year. We still need more bodies at LB too.

If Rock and Sellers are losers in this draft, Khary Campbell has to be the biggest winner.

Posted by: bangkokben | April 29, 2008 1:11 AM | Report abuse

It's not the fairest thing in the world, but who said life was fair.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 29, 2008 12:56 AM

And the new rule allows for this. Good for Caleb if he is able to follow his dream.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 1:16 AM | Report abuse

Rock has an excellent chance to make the team as the 3rd RB and KR. But he has A LOT more competition in ST this year and could lose his RB spot to Mason or Shelton. My guess is there will only be 3 RBs on the roster this year, with an additional TE and Mason out...

On the other hand, it will be nice to see what Nemo can do as a FB. IF he can stay healthy this year -- he might show enough talent to make the team as the backup FB.

Posted by: Siris | April 29, 2008 1:26 AM | Report abuse

chris larry I guess you didn't watch any games last year. Moss didn't do anything special but lose a couple games by himself.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 1:54 AM | Report abuse

It's not Corkcsar, its' Corkczar. Is jabedoben your first name or last?

Posted by: Corkczar | April 28, 2008 11:02 PM

I'm not the one who called someone a gutless wonder....

for posting ANON on a messaged board, where everyone is anonymous.

Posted by: jabedoben | April 29, 2008 2:57 AM | Report abuse

2007 NE Patriots starting OL:

Matt Light - Drafted by Patriots in 2nd
Logan Mankins- Drafted by Patriots in 1st
Dan Koppen- Drafted by Patriots in 5th
Stephen Neal - Un-Signed FA by Patriots
Nick Kaczur - Drafted by Patriots in 3rd...

Anyone see a trend here? Draft your Offensive linemen well, groom them to be starters to protect your franchise quarterback. Then go out and get wide receivers once they have PROVEN that they can be productive in this league.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 2:09 PM

And a lot of good it did them against the Giants in the Super Bowl. The Patriots couldn't keep the Giants D-Line out of the backfield that night. Yet just a few weeks earlier, the old, worn-out, poorly-constructed, oft-injured, sub-par Redskins O-Line seemed to have few problems with the Giants' rushers.

It's an interesting paradox.

Posted by: Bug . . . | April 29, 2008 3:46 AM | Report abuse

It seems very strange to have Redskins stories in the Tuesday edition of The Washington Post that have only Jason Reid listed as the writer/reporter. The shared byline (JR/JLaC) seems to have disappeared for the moment. Has Jasno headed off on vacation again?

Hopefully, Cindy will have some clarification on this issue shortly.

Posted by: Bug . . . | April 29, 2008 4:32 AM | Report abuse

Hey Bug,

Let's not compare the Super Bowl against a team that hadn't lost to a regular season matchup against the Skins, a team they'd already beaten 3 straight times. You'd think they'd be a little more pumped for the Pats than they would the Skins, especially since they got so close to beating them that last game of the regular season.

This team is in need of depth on both lines and I'm curious to see how much longer they have to have a mediocre pass rush before they finally address it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 6:28 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

We have some depth on the O-Line and can add more with June 1st cuts and FA's. There was no pass rushing DE at 21 that is why the team moved back, and then got three players with first round grades. I do not know if you followed the team last year, but our recievers had 5 TD's and we could not score TD's in the redzone. WR was very much a position of need, and I agree we need a beast DE but we were not going to get him in this draft, not without giving away alot of picks to move up. I am not trying to argue with you your point makes sense, but I think they had to take the best players on the board instead of reaching for a OL or DE who might not be that good. We have one of the best OL coaches in the league and I think he can coach are backups up and they will be fine. Not sure what else we can do to pressure the QB, Blache will have to come up with something.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 6:57 AM | Report abuse

Many JLC supporters here who think that HE is the reason for this blog. The WaPo knows that they will get the hits on this blog even w/out JLC. What they are mad about is that the Skins have effectively shut them out. So they have this negitave agenda to try to turn fans against them.

"eyebrow raising"?? This was a good draft. What I want to know from all of you JLC supporters are the names of the DE/DL picks we should have selected. All I hear is we should have gotten a stud DE/DL. Give me their names.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 12:43 PM

Curzon,

While amusing, your conspiracy theory for the Post vs. the Skins is flawed. The Post has a huge spike in sales when the Skins win, so why would they undermine that by drumming up indifference/ill-will toward the Skins with negative press?

The fact of the matter is the Skins haven't given folks much reason to give them praise. Those who view the team thru Burgundy and Gold glasses will point to 2 playoff trips in 3 years. Most others see an underachiever who tanked 2 of 4 years under Gibbs and only eeked their way into the playoffs the two years they made it. They've been average at best in free agency, made bone-headed trades, and haven't done enough in the draft to garner any real respect.

Besides, I couldn't care less how this draft is rated. You don't know for at least 3 years how good a draft is. All I know is that the Redskins most glaring need (D-line/O-line) was not addressed in Round 2 even though they had 3 picks. I think the Skins got some love for this draft because they actually USED the picks for a change.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 6:59 AM | Report abuse

Deadskins girls rumor is JLC will no longer be beat reporter for the Deadskins.
Deadskins fans rejoice and hope the new boy will have his nose buried so deep between Snyder's cleft that all the stories about their team will be rosy and positve.

Snyder and his girls have no history of ever having a good draft or even a decent one. So chances this one pans out are about as good Hillary swallowing!

You have the all time worse owner in professional sports it isnt going to get better!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 7:10 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

I've followed this team for 15 years, and receivers catching only 5 tds doesn't mean so much if someone else is scoring them. I can't remember the last time a Redskin receiver has had any sustained success crossing the end zone. But if CP scores 20 tds, nobody cares.

My point is that maybe we get more passing AND rushing tds with a deeper, younger line. And maybe we get more picks and more impact plays on defense if there's 2 or 3 guys hanging on the opponent's QB. Line play is the MOST important thing, not having a stable of pass catchers.

I've heard all the rhetoric about "staying true to the draft board". But it's been 5 years running this team has had a mediocre pass rush. You can't tell me that NOBODY has been worth drafting/signing to correct that problem. If this had been corrected right away, it might have the Skins knocking off the unbeaten Patriots for the Super Bowl this year.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 7:22 AM | Report abuse

By the way, I need people to stop saying we have a deep o-line. We don't. After the starters, it's undrafted rookies and vets too old or too injury prone to start. Wade stays hurt. Heyer is a raw prospect at best. Skins got lucky that Fabini wasn't a disaster since he'd never played guard before. And just a couple years ago they had to rely on Ray Brown all the way into his mid-40s. Instead of chasing Ocho Stinko and Boldin, they need to look to trade for quality linemen on both sides of the ball.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 7:28 AM | Report abuse

All you haters should stop and think for a moment, and then you'd realize this post makes a scary amount of sense.

Keep up the great work Jason!

Posted by: Nick | April 29, 2008 7:28 AM | Report abuse

Regarding "who" scores the TD's not important.....which on the surface sounds OK, but reality is......it doesn't happen that way. How many FG's have we kicked over Gibbs II because we couldn't power our way into the end zone? Fred and Malcomb should help tremedously in this area. I'm sure if the value was there for a DE or DT the pick would have been made at 21......Merling was not a 1st round grade in some NFL circles according to Pat Kirwan of Sirius NFL radio......maybe we were the circle he was talking about!!!!! LOL

Posted by: redskn3 | April 29, 2008 7:49 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

Lets not discuss what should have been done in previous drafts we are discussing this draft. Your saying it does not matter who scores TD's in the redzone as long as someone does well thats just it no one is. An even though you say we have no depth at O-Line, we only gave up 29 sacks last year, and Heyer played very well. The playoff game he struggled, but I lay alot of blame on Gibbs for not ajusting the blocking scheme to help him. Remember the vaunted Cowgirls O-Line with 3 pro bowlers gave up 23 sacks. I am looking at this draft and again there were no OL or DE that would have made a difference this year. We added weapons that could actually help the team score which we have not been doing. Could the draft have been better maybe, but could it have been worse definatley.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 7:53 AM | Report abuse

Thanks redskn3, you just made my point.

Not being able to "power our way into the end zone" speaks to the line, not receivers. With a young QB and less than dynamic passing game, why would you throw into the end zone? I know that big WRs help give you some more options (fade, jump ball at the back pylon), but the Gibbs bread and butter was to punch you in the nuts with the run. And they couldn't do that last year when they needed it most. That speaks to your line. If you've got a couple of young maulers in there instead of 30-something has beens (or in some cases, never were), maybe we beat the Giants in Week 3 at the goal line and maybe there's some more red-zone TDs. To attribute red zone failures simply to a lack of a big WR is misguided.

I know this is a WC offense now. But the spine in ANY offense is the line, not pass catchers. Ask the 2007 Lions.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Brownwwod,

Your still talking past if we had better O-Line last year we might have beat the Giants. I say if they would have spread the field and had Portis in they could have punched it in. The jumbo package as Gibbs calls it is a joke with the personnel we have, you have to play to your teams strengths not use something that worked 12 years ago with different personnel. This discussion however is on this years draft and if we are talking this years draft, then they made the correct picks, because reaching for need is a sure way to get a bust.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 8:17 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

We don't know who is going to be good and who's not from this draft. Not until 2011 at least. So we can't debate that. All I'm saying is that this team should not go overboard by spending the first 3 picks on pass catchers. If there's nothing you like at #48, trade back and get more picks in rounds 3 or 4 and get some linemen who grade well there. We know they can trade back effectively, they just did in the first round!

As for only giving up 29 sacks, two things with that: 1)that's a little skewed since this was a running team and 2)they kept tight ends and backs in to block at the expense of sending out pass catchers. And that's not mentioning the QB is mobile.

Look, I'm not saying the backups didn't play well. They played well enough to win 4 games at the end of the year and make the playoffs. But that's the same line that got their collective asses handed to them in the playoffs and you can't afford to stand pat with that group. Going into the '08 season with that same group of backups risks having that team look the Seattle game again if injuries hit.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

And do not compare us taking first round graded WR's in the second round to the Lions taking recievers at the top of the draft for 4 straight years, not the same. Plus are O-Line is 10 times better then the Lions. I would take VC wife as my GM over Matt Millen.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

That wasn't the comparison I was making. I would rather my 19 month old daughter pick players than Millen. The reason Martz' system didn't work in Detroit like it did in St. Louis is because they didn't have the line to make it work. I was making the point that if your emphasis is on the pass catchers and not the pass blockers, then you're in for disappointment.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

What people need to realize is that we are not one year away, or a couple players away...

New Coach, new offense... spells a 3 year project to me.

This draft wasnt going to address all of our needs, not even close.

What was most important, IMHO, was making sure the offense was ready for the WCO. We didnt have the personnel when Zorn got here.

I believe the FO did a great job at getting some of the missing pieces, lets hope they pan out, and thank god we didnt land Boldin, Johnson and Williams for 2 first rounders. Now Soups can start growing with this offense. As for the O-Line, we need to hope we don't lose the right side by week 2. We can be pretty good if we avoid the the catastrophic injury. If the coaching has their sh!t together, the offense has the potential of being scary good.

Next years draft we obviously need to address the defense. We're gonna need a DE and DT for sure. If you dont think HB Blades can play MLB, we'll need MLB and a replacement for MW. The secondary isnt in bad shape, Landry and Rogers are pretty good players. Smoot and Springs are declining, so we'll need to replace one of them. Hopefully out of the 3 players we drafted this year, a couple stick around.

2008/2009 Draft...

DE/OT/OG/DT/ILB/CB/DE

Posted by: JSchon | April 29, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

km, haven't seen you in a bit, how you been?

I'm done beating the dead horse known as "who we should have drafted, instead of who we DID draft".

I'm excited about the potential that this offense has. I think that the person whom will benefit most, will be Portis. Can't stack the box full of defenders any longer.

Perhaps we can get an update on how Jansen/Thomas are doing in their recovery??

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Here is some old information.

Lookin' back on Joe Jackson Gibbs' eye for talent..

During Gibbs 2.0 - the 'skins had 21 draft picks. Currently there are 11 on the team - 12 if you count the ghost of #21. Two are barely on the team (TE Tyler Ecker and RB Nehemiah Broughton).

That leaves 7 starters and two reserves: Laron Landy FS, Rocky MacIntosh WLB, Anthony Montgomery DT, Reed Doughty SS, Carlos Rogers CB, Jason Campbell QB, Chris Cooley TE; H.B. Blades LB and Kedrick Golston DT are back-ups. Defense: five starters, two reserves. Offense: two starters.

If you take that same ratio to this draft; it would yield 3 or 4 starters and 1 or 2 reserves.

Posted by: bangkokben | April 29, 2008 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

I am well, been busy though I was in a training class last week. I agree we picked our players and now we should move on. I think the offense can be good, and Portis should have a great year. I would like to see a post about some of the injuries, and maybe a post on the URFA's we signed.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

"By the way, I need people to stop saying we have a deep o-line. We don't. After the starters, it's undrafted rookies and vets too old or too injury prone to start. Wade stays hurt. Heyer is a raw prospect at best. Skins got lucky that Fabini wasn't a disaster since he'd never played guard before...they need to look to trade for quality linemen on both sides of the ball.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 7:28 AM"

The best response to this post is to look at the Redskins' depth chart or this year. At O-line, they have guys who can play beyond the starting 5. You say the offensive line isn't "deep". I say it's as deep as any average offensive line in the salary cap system. The big problem with the line is age and injury -- they need some young blood there. But if you look at WR, they've got two small guys who aren't suited to be a #1...and nothing beyond that.

The Redskins weren't in a position to replace half their offensive line and half their defensive line in this draft. Why would they even want to? The D-line has got one hole: DE. The o-line has got one hole: guard. And they drafted to fix that hole at guard. Heyer is a very good backup who could develop into a starter. So could Alexander. That's 3 good backups who could become starters with seasoning.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and you don't replace 5 old OL with 5 replacements in a single draft unless you don't address a single other need. You definitely don't do it by blowing draft picks on linemen who might not even be as good as your current backups.

This year, linemen flew off the board at a ridiculous clip. It might have made you feel better if the Redskins picked up the scraps of those runs instead of trying to draft the best player available, but it wouldn't have necessarily made the team better. The true test will be next year's draft. Will they again avoid drafting linemen until very late? If so, feel free to blast the front office and say they haven't learned anything.

Posted by: jcabana | April 29, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

It could be argued that part of the redskins failures in the red zone was their inabilty to throw successfully there. I think that's way they had a big receiver high on their wish list. The skins inability to throw in the red zone may have allowed defenses (NY for example) to sell out on the run, and concentrate on Cooley in passing situations.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Indy drafted 2 WRs last year early, then 3 centers this year. Are they also building their team the wrong way? Or were they just taking the best players available?

Posted by: jcabana | April 29, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Maybe we should have some new anti-redundancy blogging codes?

55A - All current needs have been addressed by the latest draft
55B - All current needs were ignored by the latest draft
56A - Our roster is packed with top 5 starters and good quality backups
56B - We have holes in our starting roster with poor quality backups

That would allow people to post their opinions with similar frequency, but not inflame those of an opposing opinion so much. Thoughts?

For what it's worth, my opinion of your team is that you'll be depending on your defense to keep you in games while the offensive side gets it act together, and for that reason alone I'm surprised they didn't do a little more to bolster that side of the ball. If the offense gels quickly you could have a good season; if it doesn't, it might get a little ugly before it starts getting better.

The Fins 'seemed' to be in a similar position last year and look how that worked out....

Posted by: Redcoat | April 29, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

At least this all points to Jim Zorn NOT being a placeholder for Bill Cowher.

Posted by: jabedoben | April 29, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

chRIs Larry, my bad ... it was a blogger from days of yore named Jeff Hayes ... bulletproof.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/03/erics_guest_blog.html

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

You keep forgetting that over the past 4 years, we have NO ONE to throw to except Moss when he isn't hurt and Cooley, who many times had to be held in for max protect. Not because the O line couldn't do the job, but because Campbell had no one to throw who caused fear in opposing defenses so they would stack the line. I like the idea that we have several new big targets for Jason to throw to. If you are going to make Jason the franchise QB, then you have to give him weapons to work with. Now how do the defenses line up against the Skins? Double Moss and you have these big recievers and TE's that you can dump the ball to, or on a quick slant, the bread and butter play of the West Coast offense. We got 3 first round players in the second round. ALL of the first rate O linemen had been chosen and you saw Atlanta and Houston reach because of the run on O linemen. What else could the Skins have done? I think we are going to be looking back on these picks as having revived our offense. Vinnie and Snyder have finally figured out, that we need to OUT SCORE the Cowboys, Eagles and Giants to win the division. No more 17-14 games. We have to score 21 or more points per game in order to win.

Posted by: Mark Fisher | April 28, 2008 4:08 PM

I think that putting everything on the receivers isn't quite right. Part of the problem was pass protection, you have to admit. And part was JC's lack of experience. When Todd went in the game he found people to throw to.

That being said I am on board with the direction the Skins are going in. As I understand it Zorn wants the ball out of the hand of the QB fast. That should help the OL. But if the OL gets banged up again it won't matter who's lined up at WR and TE, they won't be able to beat the good teams.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 29, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Indy drafted 2 WRs last year early, then 3 centers this year. Are they also building their team the wrong way? Or were they just taking the best players available?

Posted by: jcabana | April 29, 2008 9:14 AM

Actually in both cases their filling needs they know they will have by the next year before they become urgent, so they're building the right way. But that's not what the Skins (or many other teams) have been doing.

Indy has already built their "win now" team and every draft they look to do some building for the future. Most other teams are still trying to draft to "win now" which is what hurts them because then they start reaching for need.

Posted by: Redcoat | April 29, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

that bulletproof thread link was me.
____

Also ...

Beaver Fever... catch it!

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 8:41 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giardia

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Smoot and Springs are declining,

Posted by: JSchon | April 29, 2008 8:37 AM

I don't think Smoot is declining.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 29, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps we can get an update on how Jansen/Thomas are doing in their recovery??

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 8:53 AM

I can tell you that Thomas has been at the Park from the beginning, and that while Jansen showed up late, he's been there for a couple of weeks.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | April 29, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

@skinfanman

So do you think he has already declined?

He certainly has already reached his prime and is on the the wrong side of his career...

Posted by: JSchon | April 29, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

@skinfanman

So do you think he has already declined?

He certainly has already reached his prime and is on the the wrong side of his career...

Posted by: JSchon | April 29, 2008 9:40 AM


I don't know. I look at the latter part of last year and think maybe he's got a second wind. Hard to tell until we see what he brings this year.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | April 29, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Redcoat,

We did exactly that this year, we did not reach for need.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

thanks, sween, not only have you given me reason to never again use the phrase "Beaver Fever", you've managed to summon my lifelong fear of clowns:

'Under a normal compound light microscope, Giardia often looks like a "clown face," with two nuclei outlined by adhesive discs above dark median bodies that form the "mouth."'

Ugh.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

I didn't get drafted!

Just sitting around waiting for some teams to call. I'd like to think I'll be the un-drafted feel good story of the year. Just give me a chance!

Posted by: Dorf | April 29, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Many that have completed the term at west point could have a change of heart as to where their career should be but are not allowed that option.
:
I served my time in the service and am glad and proud of the time I spent in the Marine Corps. I may be biased, but that is my opinion.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 12:52 AM

Curzon, scoured the intranet looking for answers to the following questions and didn't find much useful information. Was wondering as a former vet if you might have answers to the following

1. I'm pretty sure attendees of any military academy can de-enlist at any time prior to the end of their 2nd year without significant reprecussions. Is this correct and if so, do you know what the repercussions might be (are you required to reimburse the academy some number of dollars for your schooling/training)?
2. Once a student has passed his/her 2nd year at the academy and wishes to de-enlist, what happens to that individual? Is he/she responsible for reimbursing the academy some amount of money for his/her tuition, is he/she considered derelict of duty for not completing their commitment, ...

Just curious

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 29, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Why is there no post about the UDFA's or the rookies coming to town? is it possible JLC finally got canned?

No wait he is just doing his normal job waiting for it to get posted on ESPN or Redskins.com so he can copy and paste some "inside" info over here.

Posted by: Sec 126 | April 29, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

More on Beaver Fever ... check out that last one in the list ... weight loss! Beaver Fever Weight Loss Plan, here I come:

"Symptoms of infection include (in order of frequency) diarrhoea, malaise, excessive gas (often flatulence or a foul or sulphuric-tasting belch, which has been known to be so nauseating in taste that it can cause the infected person to vomit), steatorrhoea (pale, foul smelling, greasy stools), epigastric pain, bloating, nausea, diminished interest in food, possible (but rare) vomiting which is often violent, and weight loss."

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Alot of JLaC haters the last couple of posts.

I feel cold

Posted by: MrCoffee&GroundsForDivorce | April 29, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Senor Cafe, agreed. The byline up here USED TO be, "Come for the football, stay for the jibba jabba." Recently, it changed to "Come for the Redskins Milk Bottle, post some hate for Jasno."

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Smoot is declining.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 29, 2008 9:37 AM

Smoot is certainly not declining. He's in the prime of his career, and in the late-season push to get to the playoffs, he was the best player on the field for the skins, bar none.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

The other thing that made me go "hmmm" about punter Brooks Durant from the NFL site's prospect profiles was in the Q&A where he identified a Kenny Chesney song as one of the top five on his iPod.

With the benefit of hindsight, I'm wondering whether the Skins shouldn't have send their scouts to check out draft prospects' iPods. Ideally, it would have been good to draft a safety whose iPod has Gnarl Barkley's "Run (I'm a Natural Disaster)."

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I hated to see Coach Joe leave, but at the same time I am pretty excited about the season.

I think it will be an exciting change of pace having some "new" blood in the mix.

Posted by: MrCoffee&GroundsForDivorce | April 29, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I wanted that Punter named Dragovodich (sp). It would be cool after a coffin corner punt to run to the top of a mountaing and scream 'DRAGO" in my leather jacket with matching lumberjack beard ala ROCKY IV

Posted by: MrCoffee&GroundsForDivorce | April 29, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Actually in both cases their filling needs they know they will have by the next year before they become urgent, so they're building the right way. But that's not what the Skins (or many other teams) have been doing.

RC, with Moss, and ARE getting older, would you call drafting 2 wideouts NOW, filling those needs now, before they become urgent?

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, JLC the 2008 draft has been over for 2 days now. Is there no info on who we'll draft next year? How's our team's confidence looking going into the Giants game? What does Vinny do for down time? I heard Zorn keeps his playbook in a neon orange binder, and eats three packages of peanuts for breakfast every morning. Any truth to this?

Come on JLC, I mean this is the Redskins Insider...

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

psp, was that directed at me?

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I just had to know whether any team had ever done what the Redskins did over the weekend -- that is, take three receivers (in their case, two wideouts and a pass-catching tight end) -- in the first two rounds.

The answer is no, not since the NFL and AFL held their first common draft in 1966. (And probably not before that, either -- the rounds, after all, being much shorter.)

Trail-blazers? Or idiots? You decide.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

RC, with Moss, and ARE getting older, would you call drafting 2 wideouts NOW, filling those needs now, before they become urgent?

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 10:16 AM

That certainly is. That's one thing about the draft, no matter who you pick, you're alway preparing for the future.

The only question I have is how the FO values certain positions. Their selection of 2 WRs and pass-catching TE with their first 3 picks suggests that they would rather set the playmakers for the future before setting the trenches. This also holds true with the selections of Landry, Rogers, and ST with early picks in the 1st round of recent drafts... all distanced from the LOS. Maybe it was the way the draft fell that dictated these picks, and maybe it's just the way they value these positions. In the past how-many drafts, the earliest offensive line selections came with Rinehart in the 3rd and Dockerry in the 3rd (maybe 4th, can't remember). The earliest defensive-line selections have come no earlier than the 5th round (maybe even 6th). To me, this says volumes about how the lines are valued. Some may agree with this approach, but I personally don't.

(This isn't an indictment on vinny ONLY, but the skins FO as a whole spanning a long time-period).

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Greg and km, I think the Skins should get some kudos for supplementing the WR corps, but a lot of people on here had been expounding their deep man-crushes for Tom Mix the singing cowboy receiver, as well as defending Moss and Randle El as being in the PRIME of their careers. Sure Moss got the dropsies last year but if you think he's that close to the end you should be trading him - right now. Same with El.

In a year where you guys had a lot of picks, one good prospect receiver to get on the field this season as #2 or #3 and learn the ropes would have seemed to be enough.


As has been stated by people more learned than me Yoder looked like a perfectly serviceable #2 TE in the late-season run when thrown to (he didn't seem to get thrown to before that so it was hard to tell then) and it would be worth experimenting with Sellers as #2 TE too.

That would have left you some picks to play with to supplement the lines; there WERE people available but you guys seemed to have a very narrow view of who you wanted there.

My fubball knowledge is miniscule compared to most - hence my Fins allegiance - but at a strategeric level it does seem like the offense was prioritized over the defense at all costs in this draft, which surprised me.

I saw that blow up in my teams face last year when it was thought that a long-time 'top 5' defense didn't need any help and the offense was given a complete overhaul by an offensive-minded coach.

Posted by: Redcoat | April 29, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

psp, was that directed at me?

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 10:21 AM

no, i know you're a regular and want legit stuff posted. it was directed towards the other idiots that bash JLC without a basis.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Any bashing of JLC is "with basis", and I applaud all efforts in this regard.

By the way, isn't this a blog? Basis not necessary according to most of you. We learned it from your fearless leader.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

it was directed towards the other idiots that bash JLC without a basis.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 10:37 AM

So you're saying Greg is an idiot psps?

Just kidding!

Posted by: Redcoat | April 29, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Redcoat,

Do not let anyone on this blog full you, none of us truly knows anything about football, and how to draft. We know the rules and we know some offensive schemes and defensive schemes. Everyone on here just reads things from so called experts and then just says what they read. If anyone on here new as much about football as they thought, they would be working for an NFL team, not in an office, writing on this blog all day.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

It's amazing how we're talking about not drafting a DE...

Mario Williams can't score TD's...Strahan and U--men--yor--a make a difference, but to win that Super Bowl Manning had to throw the football. Santana Moss would not have made that catch David Tyree made.

Posted by: sicwidit | April 28, 2008 8:41 PM

Congrats. This is now officially the dumbest post ever on the Redskins Insider blog. It took real gumption and effort to take first place. But you did it. Good job.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 29, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

jcabana,

You're missing my point. The Skins have an above average o-line overall. I'd take this line over what they've got in Pittsburgh for sure. But there's nothing you can say that makes me believe that this offense is somehow better by stockpiling pass catchers, especially when you draft a TE that high and have a Pro-Bowler there.

The thing that gets me is that there's a great groundswell of support for how 'deep' the o-line is; what about the TE spot? Cooley's a Pro-Bowler, Yoder's made some big catches for us the last couple of years in spite of the fact that he's primarily a blocker, and Sellers is good there in a pinch. Why waste a 2nd rounder on that spot?

So my argument is not that the Skins should have gone DL at 48 and/or 51 if there's no one there they like. It's just that I hate that they went pass catcher when there's so many more pressing needs.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Right, like the guy who bashed JLC for writing this line:

"You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft."

The guy said that there was 1 player in the last 5 years who fit that description. Another poster came on and easily listed 10-15 guys right after. That's what I call bashing without a basis.

Trust me, you're not helping out the integrity of the blog with idiotic comments like that.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Integrity?! Now THAT raises a chuckle!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Psps,

There may be about 10-15 guys who worked out in those rounds, and the teams that drafted them got lucky because if they new they were going to be that good they would have been drafted earlier. What was not mentioned is the 40-50 players on the D-Line drafted between those rounds that did not even make a team. Any pick after the second round is a crap shoot some get lucky some do not. Hell the hole draft is a crap shoot, just more players in the first two rounds make a team because of the money they get.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

At first I was a little disappointed that we didn't draft according to need, but maybe its the burgundy shades but I'm starting to like the picks we made already.

I think Devin Thomas will be a great player in the league and will contribute this year. Don't ask me why, but I just do.

I, like everyone else, really didn't understand the Fred Davis pick. Its not like Cooley is pushing 30 or anything. I would've liked to see a DE picked, but who knows, maybe they'll develope Davis' blocking, something that Cooley doesn't do very well.

Malcolm Kelly will be a stud in the league also. But I'm also curious to see how they utilize him. I think there is going to come a time where a decision will have to be made between him and Thomas.

I like the other picks to, but as of right now they're all projects. The first three picks MUST STICK, which is why I would've liked to see a DE taken at pick 48 overall.

Posted by: Red f/ the DMV | April 29, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

RC, if he was calling me an idiot, its well deserved. After all, I have an IQ of around 48, and like ice cream, and a nice pair of slacks

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

"So my argument is not that the Skins should have gone DL at 48 and/or 51 if there's no one there they like. It's just that I hate that they went pass catcher when there's so many more pressing needs."

Brownwood, that's what I'm trying to understand: what was their more pressing need that could have been fulfilled with those picks?

Remember, I'm with you about the TE pick. I thought that pick would have been better spent trying to get a future quality DE. At the same time, WR literally has gaping holes on the roster. Nobody worth mentioning is behind Moss and Randle El, and those guys aren't exactly prototype #1 WRs (reflected in their stats this year). OL and DL, despite our concerns, does not have similar gaping holes.

TE was unnecessary. The WR picks are easily justifiable.

Posted by: jcabana | April 29, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Psps,

There may be about 10-15 guys who worked out in those rounds, and the teams that drafted them got lucky because if they new they were going to be that good they would have been drafted earlier. What was not mentioned is the 40-50 players on the D-Line drafted between those rounds that did not even make a team. Any pick after the second round is a crap shoot some get lucky some do not. Hell the hole draft is a crap shoot, just more players in the first two rounds make a team because of the money they get.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 10:56 AM

kmdp,

I wasn't trying to defend the comment by JLC. If you come with evidence for your argument, like you just did, I have no problem with disagreement. But when people make things up, like saying there's only 1 guy in 5 years to do such and such, or essentially troll on the thread telling JLC to go back to Baltimore, it gets tired and old. It almost makes it not worth coming back here.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Its too early to even call em' rookies, but check out the draftee talking 'ish.

"It really don't matter. It's my spot to take."--Fourth-round choice J.T. Tryon when asked if he knew whom the Redskins have at cornerback (longtime NFL starters Shawn Springs and Fred Smoot as well as Carlos Rogers, the ninth pick in the 2005 draft).

Posted by: Red f/ the DMV | April 29, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

RC, if he was calling me an idiot, its well deserved. After all, I have an IQ of around 48, and like ice cream, and a nice pair of slacks

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 10:56 AM

We're all idiots here. Why else would we be talking about Redskins football on a Tuesday morning in April?

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly will be a stud in the league also. But I'm also curious to see how they utilize him. I think there is going to come a time where a decision will have to be made between him and Thomas.

Posted by: Red f/ the DMV | April 29, 2008 10:56 AM

If you are talking about one of them leaving the team, then the choice will not be between Thomas and Kelly. The choice will be Moss or ARE not this year but next year. You do not cut a young reciever if he is good to keep a 31 year old small reciever on the downside of his career. We could have just drafted the number 1 and 2 WR's for the next 10 years. We will see how it works out.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Brown...help me out here:

" But there's nothing you can say that makes me believe that this offense is somehow better by stockpiling pass catchers"

You do remember that the Redskins were signing guys off the street to play last year right? I mean, basically it was Moss, ARE, Cooley, and then nothing. You do recall how much of a struggle it was to score points.

If lining these guys up at WR, means that the other team can't committ 8 guys in the box, doesn't that ALONE, mean, we're better off?

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

It could have been worse... they could have gone WR-WR-WR in the second round... ah well, maybe next year! :)

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

I wonder how much of the anti-Jasno tripe is related to the fact that he's from Baltimore. Redskins fans are, afterall, more territorial than probably any other fan base.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 29, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

food for thought:

As red said, a player picked at 48 must stick. The braintrust must have thought of the possibility that any of the DE's taken at 48 may not stick and if that was the case why waste the pick? Why make a reach for the #5 or 6 DE when you have the top rated TE? Everyone was calling Pittsburgh's selction of that RB in round 1 a luxury pick, maybe the Skins pickup of Davis was the same thing. That's why they didn't take Kelly with that pick. They had their receiver they were weighing the value of another potential stud playmaker on offense against a middle of the road, 'just a guy' type of DE.

I honestly believe that if Campbell or Groves had been there at 51, they would have been selected over Kelly but since they weren't he was the best value left.

Of course, I could just be talking out of my a-hole as well.

Posted by: etrod | April 29, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

If you are talking about one of them leaving the team, then the choice will not be between Thomas and Kelly. The choice will be Moss or ARE not this year but next year. You do not cut a young reciever if he is good to keep a 31 year old small reciever on the downside of his career. We could have just drafted the number 1 and 2 WR's for the next 10 years. We will see how it works out.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 11:06 AM

Be careful what you wish for. I'm sure that Cincinnati, Arizona, and Detroit were all thinking the same thing. Now look at the situations with Chad Johnson/Housh, Fitzgerald/Boldin, and R.Williams/C.Johnson. It seems like it's becoming more and more difficult to keep two top-flight receivers on the same team.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

"I just had to know whether any team had ever done what the Redskins did over the weekend -- that is, take three receivers (in their case, two wideouts and a pass-catching tight end) -- in the first two rounds.

The answer is no, not since the NFL and AFL held their first common draft in 1966. (And probably not before that, either -- the rounds, after all, being much shorter.)

Trail-blazers? Or idiots? You decide."

This is meaningless for a few reasons: 1) there used to be many more rounds to each draft, so comparing drafts of antiquity to this draft is pointless because they were different environments; 2) the Redskins traded out of the first round -- it would be different if they had 2 or 3 first-round picks and drafted all "pass-catchers."

Finally, there was a run on linemen throughout the first and second rounds. Sound draft strategy commands that you start runs rather than ending them. A famous Redskins pick at the end of a run on a position was Andre Johnson, that 'superstar' Penn State tackle.

If a prospect even approaching the potential of a Glenn Dorsey had fallen to the Redskins, I don't think they would have passed on him. I may not think very highly of Snyder, but I do give them SOME credit.

Posted by: jcabana | April 29, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

AL, Zeke, etc. up above suggested a new tee shirt idea, which our man Alex35332 (NOT the same person as "AL, Zeke etc."!) turned into a tee shirt graphic. Check it out here, peeps!

http://www.cafepress.com/redskinsinsider

It's the timeless slogan "My team's owner sucks more than your team's owner," in stunning color, perfect for wearing to away games... or any time!


As always, all proceeds to Habitat for Humanity New Orleans, for ongoing relief from Hurricane Katrina.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Psps,

I got you, I saw that one player post and new that was crazy, there are gems in the middle rounds but you have got to be lucky to get one.

As far as the Tryon statement, I like that kind of players confidence. But when you sing it, you better be able to bring it. Lets hope he can atleast become the nickle back this year and help out on special teams.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Be careful what you wish for. I'm sure that Cincinnati, Arizona, and Detroit were all thinking the same thing. Now look at the situations with Chad Johnson/Housh, Fitzgerald/Boldin, and R.Williams/C.Johnson. It seems like it's becoming more and more difficult to keep two top-flight receivers on the same team.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 11:10 AM

Yeah, but the Colts haven't had that problem. Maybe it's because they win and stuff. I know that if I had to play for the Cards, Lions, or Bungles, I'd want extra money to compensate for it. (Although to be fair, things are getting better for at least the Cards and Lions).

But yeah, you gotta point. The personality of the player seems to matter quite a bit and it looks like Kelley is in the Ocho Cinco-T Owens mold. Now, if he has that type game, then I think we'll be ok with it. If not, we're looking at another Westbrook situation.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 29, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

"As red said, a player picked at 48 must stick. The braintrust must have thought of the possibility that any of the DE's taken at 48 may not stick and if that was the case why waste the pick?...I honestly believe that if Campbell or Groves had been there at 51, they would have been selected over Kelly but since they weren't he was the best value left."

Posted by: etrod | April 29, 2008 11:09 AM"

Amen, etrod! That's the point you, I and others have been trying to make. Whoever gets drafted in the first 3 rounds at DL has to have the potential to unseat Daniels, Carter, Golston, Montgomery, Griffin or Wilson -- and quickly. If not, they aren't really worth taking that high.

I think the Redskins rationale was that nobody available in round 2 was that good. Chances are they'll be wrong -- but chances are most teams made the same mistake, because everyone had a crack at these guys in round 1.

Posted by: jcabana | April 29, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

psps,

All those reciever problems you just mentioned are on teams with cheap a$$ owners who do not spend anywere near the salary cap. We will not have that problem, and if one of them thinks he can hold the team up, then you get rid of his a$$. The Bengals were idiots for not accepting the trade offer from the Skins or the Girls. But I am so glad they did'nt.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

What's up with Demetric Evans? Is he a DT/DE or some kind of hybrid DL? I'm asking because if the DL looks anything like this:

RE: Andre Carter
DT: Anthony Montgomery
DT: Corneilus Griffin
LE: Phillip Daniels

Reserves: Alex Buzbee, Chris Wilson, Demetric Evans, and Tommy Davis.

Drafted: Rob Jackson (7th round, 242 overall)

maybe the d-Line isn't AS bad as I thought.

Posted by: Red f/ the DMV | April 29, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

++Dr. Z of SI SEZ

The first four picks and five of the first eight went for offensive players... ah, why bother?"

Posted by: | April 29, 2008 12:41 AM+++


Why is this guy still working? Check his MOCK. He got about three right.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I just had to know whether any team had ever done what the Redskins did over the weekend -- that is, take three receivers (in their case, two wideouts and a pass-catching tight end) -- in the first two rounds. ... Trail-blazers? Or idiots? You decide.

Posted by: | April 29, 2008 10:27 AM

In 2003, it might have been good if the Skins had used this year's strategy rather than stick with Taylor Jacobs. Later in the 2003 second round (post Taylor Jacobs pick), Anquan Boldin and L.J. Smith got picked up. [Admittedly, there were other TEs and WRs picked up in that round who are no longer with the league.]

I said it before, I'll say it again ... WR is a crap shoot in the draft. Three picks for receivers increases the odds of getting one pick right. [Just like flipping a coin three times increases the chances of getting heads, right?]

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

TE was unnecessary. The WR picks are easily justifiable.

Posted by: jcabana | April 29, 2008 11:03 AM

There's my point!

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

++++One other interesting draft conversation topic.

1. Do you agree or disagree with allowing Caleb Campbell to be able to train/play for the Detroit Lions without having to serve some amount of time in a forward deployment area?+++

I think he should serve at LEAST as much combat time as Bush & Cheney.

Posted by: Corkczar | April 29, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Here is the full list of UDFA's, this is from the blog on the other paper.

CB Matteral Richardson (Arkansas), DE Dorian Smith (Oregon State), LB Curtis Gatewood (Vanderbilt), OL Devin Clark (New Mexico), S Kevin Mitchell (Illinois), OL Shannon Boatman (Florida State), DE Alonzo Dotson (Oklahoma), OL Kerry Brown (Appalachian State), OL Kyle Devan (Oregon State), WR Horace Gant (St. Olaf, Minn. College), QB Bret Meyer (Iowa State), LB Bryan Wilson (Morgan State) and S Justin Scott (Purdue).

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Paul Zimmerman, has such an axe to grind, he should practice what he preach's, "why bother".

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I said it before, I'll say it again ... WR is a crap shoot in the draft. Three picks for receivers increases the odds of getting one pick right. [Just like flipping a coin three times increases the chances of getting heads, right?]

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 11:24 AM

Does that mean you agree with that strategy? I would say yes if that was our MAIN area of concern, but to me, there were other positions with equal need.

As I see it, they put all their stock in upgrading at the receiving position (includes TE). They provided depth at OG and CB, and are hoping for the best from other positions. Could we have been better served by spreading the wealth of the early picks around, even if it meant a greater chance for busting?

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

TE was unnecessary. The WR picks are easily justifiable.

Posted by: jcabana | April 29, 2008 11:03 AM

It could have been worse... they could have gone WR-WR-WR in the second round... ah well, maybe next year! :)

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: | April 29, 2008 11:09 AM

My intergoogling of Fred Davis suggests he is more like a WR who can block (compares to Anthony Gonzalez) than a TE who can catch.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Brown...help me out here:

" But there's nothing you can say that makes me believe that this offense is somehow better by stockpiling pass catchers"

You do remember that the Redskins were signing guys off the street to play last year right? I mean, basically it was Moss, ARE, Cooley, and then nothing. You do recall how much of a struggle it was to score points.

If lining these guys up at WR, means that the other team can't committ 8 guys in the box, doesn't that ALONE, mean, we're better off?

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 11:08 AM

I remember well Greg. And I recall Thrash was good in spots. As was McCardell. Those guys are old and I wouldn't want to keep having to depend on those guys to make plays, but they did what they could with what they had.

The problem isn't WR. In reality, a WR is only as good as his QB and O-line. What I've been saying is that the team was right to pick Devin Thomas, but it was overkill to get the other two guys when you're "signing guys off the street" to play on the O/D lines.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

There is a funny video of Payton manning going Ape Sh!t on his O-Line, and then being told to sit down buy one of them, good thing Manning listened that dude was huge.

It's on PFT.com

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

++++One other interesting draft conversation topic.

1. Do you agree or disagree with allowing Caleb Campbell to be able to train/play for the Detroit Lions without having to serve some amount of time in a forward deployment area?+++

I think he should serve at LEAST as much combat time as Bush & Cheney.

Posted by: Corkczar | April 29, 2008 11:28 AM


Good One!

I was watching a sports show yesterday, and a guy was explaining that this is America, people get special treatment all the time.

What I'm wondering here, and I'm sorry if I come off as a conspiracy theorist, but do you think there is any chance that the Army is using this guy as some sort of PR move? I don't know, but the US Army looked pretty bad after Pat Tillman.

Posted by: Red f/ the DMV | April 29, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

What's up with Demetric Evans? Is he a DT/DE or some kind of hybrid DL? I'm asking because if the DL looks anything like this:

RE: Andre Carter
DT: Anthony Montgomery
DT: Corneilus Griffin
LE: Phillip Daniels

Reserves: Alex Buzbee, Chris Wilson, Demetric Evans, and Tommy Davis.

Drafted: Rob Jackson (7th round, 242 overall)

maybe the d-Line isn't AS bad as I thought.

Posted by: Red f/ the DMV | April 29, 2008 11:21 AM


You're forgetting Golston

Posted by: scampbell1975 | April 29, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4, how does UDFA work? Are they just invited to camp? They aren't signed, are they?

Posted by: Red f/ the DMV | April 29, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Does that mean you agree with that strategy? I would say yes if that was our MAIN area of concern, but to me, there were other positions with equal need.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 11:33 AM

On the question, I agree with the strategy. On the statement, my decisions about our main area(s) of need may differ from the guy who writes the paychecks. Once HE decided it was a position of need, it follows they made the right choices to fill that position ... i.e., spreading the risk. Right now, I'm willing to say at least one of those three guys won't make the roster for lack of production (and/or end up on the IR, thus foiling my prediction).

As far as my projections on areas of need, I'm satisfied that the Skins filled the one I identified previously (except for the part about Kenny Chesney on the iPod).

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Brown, if the offense is more potent, if its more efficient, then there is a whole trickle down effect. Opposing teams can't stack 8 in the box to stop the run, opposing teams can't BLITZ at will. Don't kid yourself, with Moss and ARE missing time, trotting out Thrash, and anyone else was killing this team. You can single cover those guys, and then just release the hounds after the qb.

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Curzon, scoured the intranet looking for answers to the following questions and didn't find much useful information. Was wondering as a former vet if you might have answers to the following

1. I'm pretty sure attendees of any military academy can de-enlist at any time prior to the end of their 2nd year without significant reprecussions. Is this correct and if so, do you know what the repercussions might be (are you required to reimburse the academy some number of dollars for your schooling/training)?
2. Once a student has passed his/her 2nd year at the academy and wishes to de-enlist, what happens to that individual? Is he/she responsible for reimbursing the academy some amount of money for his/her tuition, is he/she considered derelict of duty for not completing their commitment, ...

Just curious

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 29, 2008 9:56 AM

Adam, can't help you with the questions. I enlisted to the USMC and there you had to serve out your entire contract or be dishonorably discharged.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Dr. Z (or Nurse Z as my boy Steve Czaban calls him) is a jackass. Just an angry old man who needs to go somewhere and die. SI should be paying ME to read his crap.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

I need to know who they should have picked at OL or DL that would have been better then what we have. I believe that the two WR's one of which will start on day one if we use a three reciever set. The other WR will contribute a great deal this year in certain formations, and most likely push ARE out. The TE pick can be looked at as a waist because of Cooley, but this guy is totally different player then Cooley. This guy can block and in a two TE formation can get down the middle of the field to open Cooley up underneath. Davis is a former WR turned TE he is faster then Cooley and bigger. Could they have used the pick on a DL sure but it would have been a reach, I would rather take the best TE in college football because if Cooley goes down we have nothing. Yoder is old and slow and the beast Sellers is not the type that is going to make catches down the field.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Red f/, each team is allowed to have something like 90-100 (ish) guys on the roster btwn now and the first cut down date. Its a fixed number ... it used to have roster exemptions for NFL Europe, but NFL Europe did not re-join the Coalition of the Willing.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

++++What I'm wondering here, and I'm sorry if I come off as a conspiracy theorist, but do you think there is any chance that the Army is using this guy as some sort of PR move? I don't know, but the US Army looked pretty bad after Pat Tillman.

Posted by: Red f/ the DMV | April 29, 2008 11:35 AM+++

Yes. C. Campbell is the "Player to be named Later" the Army sent to the NFL in exchange for Tillman.

Seriously? The Warriors in the White House believe we are now in a neverending War, a la 1984, therefore a USO is necessary.

In WW Twice many "entertainers" went in to the military to entertain the troops without carrying a rifle. Some, like Jimmy Stewart, actually fought (he was a bomber pilot).

So in one sense, Campbell can be written off as an "entertainer" in that he will be entertaining in the NFL, and hence aiding recruitment.

Back in the fifties and early sixties, when there was a military draft, many NFL players were in the military and played for some very good service teams.

I actually saw Bart Starr play for one, and Jim Dooley,(who later played for and coached the Bears) as well as many lesser stars.

I THINK they also had military jobs and playing football was secondary, but they weren't "in the Reserves" they were on active duty.

So I think it is justified, personally.

Posted by: Corkczar | April 29, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Yes UDFA's are players signed to the team who did not get drafted, although most do not make it some turn out to be good players. Stephan Heyer fits into this catagory from last year.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 29, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Brown, if the offense is more potent, if its more efficient, then there is a whole trickle down effect. Opposing teams can't stack 8 in the box to stop the run, opposing teams can't BLITZ at will. Don't kid yourself, with Moss and ARE missing time, trotting out Thrash, and anyone else was killing this team. You can single cover those guys, and then just release the hounds after the qb.

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 11:43 AM

I can agree with your assessment, to a point. If you release the hounds and the o-line can't handle them, no matter how good you're receivers are, your quarterback will still get pressured/hit/sacked. Receivers definitely take pressure off the LOS, but ONLY if the LOS can show it can properly handle the pressure first. The receivers may beat single coverage, but it does no good if the quarterback is down by the time it happens.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Look at what the pats did last year, they went out and got Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Kelley Washington. I'm not saying that they're the equivalent of Kelly/Thomas, but this is a PASSING LEAGUE. Teams need to have MORE THAN 2 wide receivers that are not just off the street guys.

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Yeah Greg, but who is going to double team a rookie? Thrash and McCardell may not scare anyone, but what rookie scares anyone (outside of Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss)?

And what REALLY killed this team last year was the fact that the entire right side of the o-line was on the sidelines in sweats. The Skins could only run left all year! And even at full strength this team has a young QB who doesn't consistently step up in the pocket when blitzed. So they could have had Anquan Boldin AND Ocho Stinko at WR and still struggled.

I'm glad they've bolstered the WR core, but I just think it's overboard to dedicate the whole first day of the draft to it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Really disappointed in the blog... nobody bit on my Walter Brennan joke up above. Come on, people!

http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/Research/r_a_bren.html

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

By the way, that Manning clip is on the Colt's Super Bowl season in America's Game. High comedy...

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

RichinFrederick? Jerry Rice wasn't fast? Are you really Darrell Green?

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 1:35 PM

I have no idea what Rice's 40 time was, but I live in the Bay Area and saw a ton of Rice. He was very very fast. Unless you are Darrell Green, Rice could blow by you.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 28, 2008 1:48 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40-yard_dash

Many players have gone on to have stellar NFL careers after recording a "disappointing" 40 time -- for example:

Jerry Rice reportedly ran a 4.7 second 40-yard dash (regarded as a mediocre figures for a wide receiver). He went on to play in 13 Pro Bowls, win 3 Super Bowls, and break numerous NFL receiving records NFL records (at the time of his retirement he had 28 NFL records). Said former teammate Ronnie Lott, "Jerry may have been a 4.6 or a 4.7, but he was a 4.2 on Sundays." Rice was also generally noted for being able to run as fast a 40-yard dash under the weight of heavy NFL padding as he could in track gear.

My point is that 40 times aren't everything. Hell with all of the emphasis placed on combine times and he went to a small school, Rice would have been an Undrafted Free Agent more than likely. It's more important to be able to get off the line of scrimmage (remember Desmond Howard) and have strong hands that fight for the ball. I don't mind the WR's pick I just think we should have addressed the D line with our 48th pick.

Bottom line is that I think as Skins fans we forget what it's like to have a meaningful draft year full of picks. If you are able to address 75% of your needs and more than 50% of your picks make the team then you have had a successful draft. Last year draft was a joke but this year it actually looks like we somewhat of a clue as what we are doing.

I think this is a fair assesment of our draft on paper at least.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker#tab:dt-by-team|team-was

Posted by: RichinFrederick | April 29, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

psp, you go to the checkdown, portis/betts, who has nothing but OPEN field in front of them.

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

My 40 time is 5.3, without pads
I havent been able to finish a 40 with pads

Posted by: JSchon | April 29, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

KMDP4, nice to see you posting again.
-------------

It seems to me that we (me included) are arguing our points from a position of knowing what we are talking about, when in fact we cannot take time away from work to spend 20 hour days at Redskins Park working on our team. Don't get me wrong, I think that the best thing that Dan S. can do is hire football people, then get out of the way.

But I can't help thinking that if there was a DL player in the draft that Blache really wanted, that the Skins would have done what was necessary to get him. Actually, this kind of thought process is what the Skins use and scared me the most because I thought that we would lose many picks to move up and take one of the top prospects, either OL or DL. That is not what happened.

I read on the other Washington paper that Smith wanted this punter and the FO got him. So if there was someone Blache wanted we would have picked that player.

Pre draft I like many here stated what we needed and who we should get, but we are not the ones making the picks nor imputing on what our needs are. So, like many, I was disappointed that my "guys" were not picked, my area of need was not filled and that we picked a TE with pick #2.

But overall I am happy with the picks of this draft because 1) we had 10 picks this draft and did not trade any of them nor any of next years picks for players and 2) I think that at least 7 of these players will make the team. Let me qualify this by saying I do not know as much about scouting as I think I do.

We may see some of the role players we like (Rock, Thrash) cut because of the younger players selected (two safties and the CB) that should make the team to play ST, and the fact that we should be able to find some post June 1 FAs that can help in the areas "we" see as needs, DE/DL, LB and maybe corner.

Most of you who have read my posts know that I wear the burgundy glasses, so...

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

and on Sunday, the only 40 I'm touching requires a an ID saying you're over 21.

Posted by: JSchon | April 29, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Just curious

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 29, 2008 9:56 AM

Adam, can't help you with the questions. I enlisted to the USMC and there you had to serve out your entire contract or be dishonorably discharged.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 11:44 AM

Mr. mmok attended VMI, a four year military college in Virginia. He had a friend on military scholarship who left the school and he had to enlist to pay off what the Navy had spent on him.

On the flip side, and this was the late 80's so it was "peacetime", the Army just let Mr. mmok enter civilian life after graduation (he was not on scholarship). I think they just wanted him to go away:)

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Maximum roster size is 80. Some owners were trying to get the number increased this year, but I don't think it passed.

Posted by: jcook | April 29, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

psp, you go to the checkdown, portis/betts, who has nothing but OPEN field in front of them.

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 12:03 PM

Greg,

What if the opposing team isn't blitzing to get that pressure?

Adam

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

What if the opposing team isn't blitzing to get that pressure?

Adam

Then you run the ball.

Posted by: etrod | April 29, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

greg,

fair enough. at least we can say we're not short on receivers anymore.

get it? not short on receivers anymore...

ah that's terrible. i'm ashamed for actually posting that joke. alright i'm outta here. later hamsters.

Posted by: psps23 | April 29, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

Every draft outlet said that Davis' blocking is a weakness. So you're going to run a 2 TE formation and send out both TEs every time? And if he plays a similar role to Cooley, you took this guy too high to be a backup. Let's remember: Cooley was a 3rd rounder. You can get contributors later in the draft.

And Greg, the whole "this is a passing league" argument is noted. But if you're going to pass, you'd better have proper protection. I haven't forgotten the Spurrier years. If you don't have the bodies up front, your QB will be killed. The starters are as good as any line if healthy. It's just when the IF healthy is a big IF, you need to address it with more than just undrafted rookies.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I love how it is a well known fact league-wide that WR is the hardest position to evaluate and also takes the longest for a player to become an "impact" player but already many RI bloggers are calling our 3 2nd rounders "Weapons" and saying that our offense will be better next year.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 29, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Kelly is the new Art Monk. Thomas is the new Gary Clark. Santana is the new Ricky Sanders. ARE is the new benchwarmer/gadget guy/punt specialist. If this group is anywhere close to the old group in efficiency, the Redskins have improved greatly. I can live with that.

Posted by: jcook | April 29, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Red f/, each team is allowed to have something like 90-100 (ish) guys on the roster btwn now and the first cut down date. Its a fixed number ... it used to have roster exemptions for NFL Europe, but NFL Europe did not re-join the Coalition of the Willing.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 11:47 AM

Sween, I think that magic # is 80 this year. Pretty sure I heard on NFL network that the # was reduced, plus with no nfle 80 is the number of signed players we can have before the first cut.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

scampbell1975, yeah, forgot all about Golston.

I'm beginning to think Vinny, and even Dan, may have a shred of competence. As much as everyone would've liked to see a pass-rushing DE or gap filling DT, IMO, I think the D-line is good.

The O-line is a area of need, but with the OG they drafted and a host of other UDFA O-linemen that will be in camp, I think the team is ok THIS YEAR, even with a injury or two.

Posted by: Red f/ the DMV | April 29, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Kelly is the new Art Monk. Thomas is the new Gary Clark. Santana is the new Ricky Sanders. ARE is the new benchwarmer/gadget guy/punt specialist. If this group is anywhere close to the old group in efficiency, the Redskins have improved greatly. I can live with that.

Posted by: jcook | April 29, 2008 12:15 PM

Yeah, except Kelly is a turd who blamed his crappy 40 time on the institution that paid for his education. Yeah, I'm sure Art would do that...

Seriously, I hope that post was a joke. Otherwise I have a padded white room for you and a sippy-cup of pills.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Riggo made an interesting point on his show last night (after talking in circles for 5 minutes as he usually does). He was saying that by taking the 2 receivers and the tight end that Danny boy and the V-Man were stacking the Offense for the Z-Man to succeed, on offense. So, he's got all the weapons he needs on O, and if the D sux this year, oh well, that's not really his bag.

Posted by: pulldownclaw | April 29, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

I've never seen such a collection of morons

Posted by: Wend | April 29, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Dr. Z:

"Washington Redskins: The first four picks and five of the first eight went for offensive players, with a punter thrown in. Never mind that age is creeping into the defense, and the death of free safety Sean Taylor left that unit depleted, so why ... ah, why bother?"

Posted by: | April 29, 2008 12:41 AM

If Dr. Z did his homework, he would have realized that Redskin's defense was actually younger than Redskin's offense... ah, why bother?

Posted by: M | April 29, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Dr. Z:

"Washington Redskins: The first four picks and five of the first eight went for offensive players, with a punter thrown in. Never mind that age is creeping into the defense, and the death of free safety Sean Taylor left that unit depleted, so why ... ah, why bother?"

Posted by: | April 29, 2008 12:41 AM

If Dr. Z did his homework, he would have realized that Redskin's defense was actually younger than Redskin's offense... ah, why bother?

Posted by: M | April 29, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Adam

Then you run the ball.

Posted by: etrod | April 29, 2008 12:08 PM

And if that fails, then you just don't let the other team score

Got it, thanks

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 29, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Taylor Jacobs was a product of the Spurrier drafting regime wasn't he? I would consider that flop an anomaly. Good ol' boy draft pick.

Trung Canidate, now that was a bad move. A 4TH rounder and David Loverne (hello O-line).

I'm glad that ship has sailed.

Posted by: Dorf | April 29, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

If Paul Zimmerman, did some research he'd know that the defense was ranked what, 8th? So how again is that depleted?

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Haven't posted here for a while.

I share the concern that we didn't address the DL and OL needs. But looks like the undrafted rookies we signed are mostly OL players. What does everybody think about these signings?
--------------------
The Redskins agreed to terms with 13 undrafted rookie free agents, the team announced. They are OL Shannon Boatman, Florida State; OL Kerry Brown, Appalachian State; OL Devin Clark, New Mexico; OL Kyle DeVan, Oregon State; DE Alonzo Dotson, Oklahoma; WR Horace Gant, St. Olaf College; LB Curtis Gatewood, Vanderbilt; QB Bret Meyer, Iowa State; S Kevin Mitchell, Illinois; CB Matteral Richardson, Arkansas; S Justin Scott, Purdue; DE Dorian Smith, Oregon State; LB Bryan Wilson, Morgan State

Posted by: thor | April 29, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

As I said: Nurse Z is a crotchety old piece of sh_t.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 29, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

who knows, no "insider" info to be had around here.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Did all the draft bashers forget how long it took for a WR to catch a TD pass for the Skins last season. I think they went halfway through the season before it happened. How the heck do you not draft a bunch of pass catchers. You think drafting just one would have been enough? Seriously folks, you can't compete in this league unless you can put the ball in the end zone. Do you really want to go through yet another season of 16-14 or 13-10 outcomes. I know I don't. I can remember watching Skins games the last few years and just being happy if they didn't go "three and out" on a series. Did you all forget how bad the Skins were in the Red Zone the last 5 yrs. Scoring 20 points in a game shouldn't be an achievement. It should be a weekly occurrence.

Posted by: renhoekk2 | April 29, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Doc Z missed the point. But ....

The Skins have 9 starting linemen. 7 of the 9 are 30+. 2 are 35+ (Kendall, Daniels). 3 have missed large chunks of time with major injuries (Griffin, Thomas, Jansen). They also have 3 starting LBs, two are in their 30's and the 3rd is coming off serious injury. The top backup LB has gone to another team.

The OL, DL and LB represent 12 out of 22 starters. Clearly they are where the team is oldest. How many picks did we make at those positions?

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

O-line, I mean are we talking about o-line, please on game day I throw touchdowns and make miracles happen, if fact get me that wideout from Arizona Rod Tidwell, Thanks for all the weapons

Posted by: Anon Redskins QB | April 29, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I like a player to show swagger better then coming in all like, shucks fellas.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

I think the Redskins rationale was that nobody available in round 2 was that good. Chances are they'll be wrong -- but chances are most teams made the same mistake, because everyone had a crack at these guys in round 1.

Posted by: jcabana | April 29, 2008 11:20 AM

It may pay to be a contrarian. DEs were at such a premium after the Giants won that DEs in this draft tended to be overrated, it seems. OTs are the other side of that coin, but these OTs this year looked pretty good. WRs may have got a bad rap this year because people looked at the history of the draft and saw all the busts in the first round which made people, I think, magnify every possible negative. The Skins went against the herd. We might get a hankering in preseason if they were right.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 29, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse


Doc Z missed the point. But ....

The Skins have 9 starting linemen. 7 of the 9 are 30+. 2 are 35+ (Kendall, Daniels). 3 have missed large chunks of time with major injuries (Griffin, Thomas, Jansen). They also have 3 starting LBs, two are in their 30's and the 3rd is coming off serious injury. The top backup LB has gone to another team.

The OL, DL and LB represent 12 out of 22 starters. Clearly they are where the team is oldest. How many picks did we make at those positions?

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 12:49 PM

Minor point only 6 of our starting in their 30's, last I checked Carter is 28

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Maybe this was just a CYA draft. They fooled around forever to name a coach. Coach comes in with "new" offense because that's all he knows. Current roster can't really run the new offense. Front office covers their "arse" but drafting players to help new coach run new offense. New coach doesn't have time to put together a new playbook because he is pulled in 50 different directions being the new coach. New defense coordinator left to figure out things on his own because he has been around for awhile. Also, marketing genius of an owner realizes that offensive lineman don't sell very many jerseys thus profit margin minimal in drafting OL. How many Jansen jerseys do you see around town??

Posted by: RichinFrederick | April 29, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Alex, all 5 starting OL are 30+, 2 starting DL are 30+, total is 7

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

BTW Maybe the reason we did not go for D is that no one expects the same DC next season? Remember how we bribed this guy out of retirement last year? Next off season we may end up with some other dude in that spot and we go D-heavy for the new kid. Same with OL, will buggs be here in a year?
Just a thought.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

The Skins were a playoff team last year and the only real draft need this year was for a tall possession-type WR. Offensive scheme and injury were the only reasons they didn't perform better. With the exception of the punter, all the other draft selections were for backups and depth.

The starters are set on the OL -- the odds are against a rookie unseating any of them without a year or two of training and experience. The Skins also have very capable veteran G/T backups in Fabini and Wade. The biggest OL needs were finding a backup C and LG (ie. replacing Pucillo).

On paper -- the Skins accomplished their goal in drafting backups for the future (1-3 years out). They discovered Heyer as a backup T last year and Alexander as a backup G/C the year before. This year they drafted a RG/RT and signed four additional UDFA OL; including a C (Kyle DeVan)! One of them (LG Kerry Brown) was mentioned as a deep, deep sleeper in the draft. If these guys don't pan out, then there is always the draft next year or FA signings.

Backup LDE is perhaps the only area where they could have improved through the draft, but the value or fit was not there when the Skins picked. If the players available could not beat out Evans, Buzbee or Wilson, then why waste the draft pick?

Posted by: Siris | April 29, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Oh okay the way you worded it made me think you were saying 9-9 30+

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

"Maybe this was just a CYA draft. They fooled around forever to name a coach. Coach comes in with "new" offense because that's all he knows. Current roster can't really run the new offense. Front office covers their "arse" but..."

RichinFrederick | April 29, 2008 1:14 PM


Me don't understand what you try and say.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Alex -- its a good point on Blache. Will he stick around if they don't draft for defense? Not for long.

Will Bugel stick around if he has a line of all 30+ players and one pick in 2 years?

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Many JLC supporters here who think that HE is the reason for this blog. The WaPo knows that they will get the hits on this blog even w/out JLC. What they are mad about is that the Skins have effectively shut them out. So they have this negitave agenda to try to turn fans against them.

"eyebrow raising"?? This was a good draft. What I want to know from all of you JLC supporters are the names of the DE/DL picks we should have selected. All I hear is we should have gotten a stud DE/DL. Give me their names.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 12:43 PM
===================================
Uh...whose picture is up top?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Just one of them weird thoughts - were'nt most of the hogs the same guys (other than Jim Lachey) that won in 82/83 and 92? Just saying that O-Line guys last awhile longer...

Posted by: John D in Houston | April 29, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

So what's wrong with the Times' blog? Shouldn't they be getting more than 5 comments a thread if it didn't matter who was running the thing.

Half of the comments up here are jibba jabba or whining. JLC created this atmosphere. He could not BHGO for a week (I believe that has happened a few times) and people would still post comments. Its his creation...

Posted by: Dorf | April 29, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Who is the creator?

Posted by: V***GER | April 29, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

With the draft, there are few positions that a rookie can make an impact.

So you draft with an eye towards what the team will look like in 3 years. There are 12 starters at LB, OL and DL. How many of them will be on the roster in 3 years?
Jansen unlikely
Thomas maybe
Rabach likely
Kendall unlikely
Samuels likely
Daniels unlikely
Griffin unlikely
?? DT likely
Carter likely
Fletcher unlikely
Washington maybe
?? Rocky likely (if he recovers)

I'd guess at least half are gone (maybe several more). Which means you need to bring in 6 new guys. Assume 2 from FA. That means a need to develop 4 more guys from the draft. Which means you need to draft 12 guys from these positions. How many did the Skins draft? 1.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

From Redskins.com -- the Skins signed seven defensive undrafted FAs:

Defensive end Alonzo Dotson is 6-4 and 260 pounds. He played in 14 games with Redskins second round draft pick Malcolm Kelly last year and recorded 20 tackles and two sacks. His father Santana played for the Green Bay Packers in the 1990s and his grandfather Alphonse played for John Madden's Oakland Raiders in the 1970s.

Curtis Gatewood is a 6-2, 248-pound outside linebacker who will likely play either the strong-side or defensive end in the pros. A four-year starter at Vanderbilt, he recorded 110 tackles, 10.5 sacks and one interception in his college career.

Safety Kevin Mitchell is a 6-0, 209-pounder who led the Big Ten in passes defended last year. He was tied for third in the Big Ten with five interceptions. He also logged 75 tackles and 11 pass deflections. Mitchell is not related to the late Redskins linebacker Kevin Mitchell.

Matteral Richardson is 5-11, 194 pounds and regarded as physical cornerback and sound tackler. He started three years at Arkansas, finishing with 180 tackles, 27 pass break-ups and four interceptions. Nicknamed "Red," he should compete for a special teams job early on.

Safety Justin Scott was a two-year starter at Purdue. Last year, the 6-0, 209-pounder recorded 73 tackles, one sack and three interceptions.

Defensive end Dorian Smith played two years at Oregon State as a junior college transfer, but started just one season. The 6-1, 264-pounder recorded 72 tackles, 22 tackles for a loss and 15 sacks.

Bryan Wilson is a 6-3, 250-pound outside linebacker who earned 2007 All-MEAC first-team defense honors. He logged 50 tackles, a team-high seven sacks and a league-high six forced fumbles. Wilson hails from Temple Hills, Md. He attended the Redskins' local college workout.


Posted by: Siris | April 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I am not buying JLC's suggestion that Redskin's artificially inflated the value of WRs on their draft board above all other positions. If that was the case, they would have grabbed the best available WR at 21 and proclaimed him a "great value" instead of trading down. I actually see a lot of logic in their draft. First, they did not have 9 picks in round one so they could not have addressed every need in the draft. So they had to prioritize and they focused on offense. It is hard to argue with this choice. Redskins had No. 18 offense last year and No. 10 defense. With the exception of Sean Taylor, they are returning all starters from last year's defense, and there was no one in this draft who could have replaced Taylor. More importantly, they did everything to help Jason Campbell to succeed. He received three additional weapons - and none was a reach. They addressed OL with a 3d round pick, where they got value. Moreover, they addressed some depth issues at safety with the second day picks. I am not sure whether the corner they picked is better than Torrence, Eubanks and Westbrook, but who knows? TE is a bit of a luxury pick (despite 2TE sets and being an insurance in case Cooley gets banged up), but he is a very intriguing pick - he was the main receiving option at USC ahead of his teammate DeSean Jackson who has been compared to Santana Moss. Other than a few minor question marks, Redskins' draft looks pretty solid. They were patient, they did not trade away their draft picks in an effort to trade up, they did not mortagage the future. They got the highest ranked WR, TE and punter in this draft. Their offensive guard pick was solid. The did everying to help Jason Campbell. They rolled a dice on a third string QB in the sixth round - a relatively small risk and they filled a need. They will need to address defense next year, but I did not see any huge blunders in this years draft. Of course, we should thank Bengals for being so stupid that they declined essentially 2 first round picks that Redskins offerred for a 30 year-old "give me a bigger contract" CJ, but that is another story. By the way, I think CJ is an excellent WR, but Redskins were offerring way too much for him.

Posted by: M | April 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Okay, it's time for more stupid predictions. Let's make a game of it. Given our new crop of receivers and the installation of Zorn's offense, over which opponent will the Skins have the biggest margin of victory this season?


Below are our biggest margins of victory (I think) in each of the past ten seasons:

12/16/07 -- 11 pts -- 22-10 win at Giants
9/24/06 -- 16 pts -- 31-15 win at Texans
10/23/05 -- 35 pts -- 52-17 win vs. 49ers
12/5/04 -- 24 pts -- 31-7 win vs. Giants
12/7/03 -- 13 pts -- 20-7 win at Giants
10/6/02 -- 17 pts -- 31-14 win at Titans
10/28/01 -- 14 pts -- 35-21 win vs. Giants
10/22/00 -- 19 pts -- 35-16 win at Jaguars
9/19/99 -- 29 pts -- 50-21 win at Giants
11/15/98 -- 25 pts -- 28-3 win vs. Eagles


I'll go first: our biggest margin of victory this season will be in our game at the Giants.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Another thought. Again at random. What if we were able to use this no-2 TE we have now as a backup and eventual replacement for Big Mike? Play a FB/TE role?

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

From Redskins.com -- the Skins also signed six offense undrafted FAs -- four on the OL + a QB and WR:

Shannon Boatman is a 6-5, 315-pound offensive right tackle. He also played some guard for Florida State, so he has some versatility. He started two years and is thought to be a good developmental prospect. Boatman was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at age 17, but he has been able to keep the disease in check.

Offensive lineman Kerry Brown is a 6-5, 305-pound guard from Appalachian State. He started four years and was a Division I-AA All-American. He is regarded as a tough, physical lineman who needs to fine-tune his technique.

Devin Clark is a 6-3, 305-pound offensive right tackle from New Mexico. He is expected to move inside to guard at the pro level, though. He participated in national Olympic-style weightlifting competitions, so he is a strong, stout player. He may have been bypassed in the draft due to recent ankle surgery.

Kyle DeVan played mostly center at Oregon State. He was a three-year starter and registered 232 knock-down blocks overall. He stands at 6-2 and 300 pounds.

Horace Gant is a 6-3, 218-pound wide receiver who holds St. Olaf school records for receptions with 185, receiving yards with 3,061 and touchdowns with 27. Gant was coached by new Redskins offensive assistant Chris Meidt, who held the head coaching position at St. Olaf last year.

Quarterback Bret Meyer joins the Redskins as one of five QBs on the off-season roster. He is expected to compete with rookie draft pick Colt Brennan and first-year player Sam Hollenbach for a backup job. He completed 233-of-382 passes for nine touchdowns and 13 interceptions as a senior at Iowa State.

Posted by: Siris | April 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Dude, you're like totally assuming the Redskins win a game this season! Perhaps we should have the opposite game. Greatest margin of defeat. Or even smallest margin of defeat. That's more of a Redskins style these days.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Nate, we beat Detroit by 31 and Dallas by 21 last season. I'm not sure which of our 3 wins next year will be by the largest margin, though.

Posted by: etrod | April 29, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I never said I was good with maths, etrod.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Really disappointed in the blog... nobody bit on my Walter Brennan joke up above. Come on, people! -Nate in the PDX

Posted by: | April 29, 2008 11:59 AM

Petulance, my good man. Sometimes I crack myself up up here ... slaying myself ... and get nary a word of response. Tears of a clown ... jibba jabba is not for the faint of heart, Mr. in the PDX. [Plus, everyone here (minus a one or two freaks) hates Dallas, so they read 'cowboy' and go blind till the next post.]

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Nobcentral, make your pick for greatest margin of defeat then! It's a prediction game!

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I'll go first: our biggest margin of victory this season will be in our game at the Giants.

-Nate in the PDX


Nate mr big man on campus shows some guts with that one. I am gonna play smart and go SF.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

One or two UDFAs usually have a chance to make a team each year. For instance, last year the Skins UDFA signings included T Heyer, DE Buzbee, RB Mason, QB Hollenbach, LB Sinlair, and CB Westbrook...

Posted by: Siris | April 29, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"...Mr. in the PDX. [Plus, everyone here (minus a one or two freaks) hates Dallas, so they read 'cowboy' and go blind till the next post.]"

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 1:38 PM

Me a freak.
Me likes to freak.
Me get freeeaky!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

I forgot about Buzbee. All I am saying is give him a chance. I have a fondness with guys named Alex with a "ee" in the last name.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

looks like everyone left for their 2PM nap. all the draft talk wore everyone out...

aaawwwwwwwwwww

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

This draft has given me hope. Hope that when in the redzone our offense WILL score. six foot two receivers should validate my thought process. New "weapons" combined with "old" weapons and a new WCO is very tantalizing.

The O-line is tops when healthy.
Marcus Washington/Chris Wilson = 10.5 sacks last year. Carter/Montgomery/Golston are competent enough.

My biggest concern with this team is the secondary. How will Rogers react from his injury and is REED Doughty the answer at SS?

Hail Skin's. Can't wait til' Sept. 4

Also. Anyone watch the youtube clip of Peyton Manning screaming at Jeff Saturday on the sidelines. Maybe that's why the Colts went Center?

Posted by: Teo | April 29, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse


looks like everyone left for their 2PM nap. all the draft talk wore everyone out...

aaawwwwwwwwwww

Posted by: | April 29, 2008 1:55 PM
That you PDX?

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

RichinFred. gets it!! It's nice to see someone does.

It's good to see a select few understand the madness that is Dano's marketing machine called the Snydermen (formerly Redskins).


While he opens 15 new retail centers and finds a way to charge from every point imaginable for his burgundy blured faithful, he laughs all the way to the bank.

He overcharges for everything and the faithful lap it up and ask for more.

Never has so much to do about nothing been made!

I look at this scrolling plethora of nonsense and am aghast that so many have such empty lives.

Find a real cause worth something, people. Hunger, housing, injustice of any/every kind. Then, do something about IT!

The Snyder's and THEIR so-called team is just that! It's not YOUR team, as he would have you believe. And it's certainly not worth anyone's precious time.

THE ONLY TEAM IN THE NFL THAT ACTUALLY CARES ENOUGH ABOUT THEIR FAN BASE TO ALLOW THEM TRUE OWNERSHIP IS THE PACKERS.

Posted by: ART | April 29, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 12:43 PM
===================================
Uh...whose picture is up top?

Posted by: | April 29, 2008 1:18 PM

Seems like this blog has become of community of mostly skins fans who enjoy the jibba jabba as much as Skins news (and other hot sports news). I am not here because this is Jasno's blog, but because of the comments that all posters here post. If Jasno left to go to another paper, the WaPo would continue to keep this blog going, maybe with the other Jason.

Or am I hearing that once/if Jasno leaves, so do all posters that post here?

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to think that 2, or more of those undrafted offensive linemen, could have a shot of making the team. Maybe thats a pipe dream....

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

THE ONLY TEAM IN THE NFL THAT ACTUALLY CARES ENOUGH ABOUT THEIR FAN BASE TO ALLOW THEM TRUE OWNERSHIP IS THE PACKERS.

Posted by: ART | April 29, 2008 1:59 PM

True enough. Got to respect that. But the NFL banned this after the Pack did it. A few minor league teams are trying to do it, all of them have failed.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

STATE OF THE REDSKINS REPORT

I must admit that I am a homer, and I do drink Kool-Aid, but I know crap when I see it. No one who has been in this area for a while can say that the Redskins are not better off than they were 4 years ago. The stability of a coaching staff and players makes a diffrence. No one knows what to expect from this team. We could be 12-4 or 4-12. We have a HC with a new offense. No one can deny that we have talent. Yes, we are still cleaning up some past F**k ups but that's football. I can see some familiar people getting cut like Thrash, Fox, etc. All sins will not be forgiven without the hardware, plain and simple. I watched every snap of the Redskins' games last season, and saw a promising QB with average weapons, not to mention a conservative coach. What I like about Zorn so far is he already committed to a scheme, none of this secrecy and "vanilla" stuff. I'm interested to see how the defense will be. I'm not ready to say they will transition smoothly under Blache. I will say this...I think we underestimate what London Fletcher has brought to this team. I don't care if he's 50 years old, he's always around the ball and he's contagious.

I think we're moving in the right direction. We've got some young talent and some old talent, but many of our veterans are still contributing. Cornelius Griffin is a difference maker when healthy, so I don't think we're Super Bowl bound, but I don't think we're the 07' dolphins either.

We'll see

Posted by: sicwidit | April 29, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Art, if its that bad, if the Redskins make your life that miserable, WHY THE BLEEP ARE YOU POSTING ON A REDSKINS BLOG??

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Curzon,

If Jasno left people would remain solely because we're a fickle bunch that doesn't adjust well to change.

We'd reminisce about Jasno's hate threads and Barno's grudge and what a weird name Rocco is (even for Italians).

Jasno created the atmosphere and amassed a core group of coked up Hamsters. He'd be missed, but we all love Cindy Boren and I know I'd stay for her.

Posted by: Dorf | April 29, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Seems like this blog has become of community of mostly skins fans who enjoy the jibba jabba as much as Skins news (and other hot sports news). I am not here because this is Jasno's blog, but because of the comments that all posters here post. If Jasno left to go to another paper, the WaPo would continue to keep this blog going, maybe with the other Jason.

Or am I hearing that once/if Jasno leaves, so do all posters that post here?

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 2:02 PM

---

I come here to talk football and jib-jab, meet loose women, and chew bubble gum... and I am all out of bubble gum.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

No bubble gum in the future!???

NOOOOOOOOO!

Posted by: Dorf | April 29, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Many like me came here to talk Skins and hear about the team. No doubt Jasno's post p!ss me off, but many of the posters help me to see past what I read in his posts. I am not a Jasno hater, just too pro Skins, mostly to a fault.

I stay because I like the comments, jibba jabba, and the feel of this blog. But I do tend to see things a little burgundy and gold (or should I say maroon and black).

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

I predict the biggest point spread this season will be against the Rams at FedEx.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

I predict we will outscore the NFC West by a total of 100 points.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Why do we even let NFC west teams play in the NFL anyway?

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Funny how now we are praising the skills of the draft evaluators like Kiper? You guys are morons to believe his or anyone else's draft grades. How would you evaluate this draft if these guys haven't even played in the NFL? B+? A? WTF? You believe what you want to believe but Jason's assesments and drawing colusions based on his interations/investigative work can't be set aside. If you want to hear how great the Redskins did go to Redskins.com. He brings up legitimate arguments and gives insight from his perspective. You are reading his insider blog because that is what you want to read. Again, you don't have to agree with him, but thank him for his insight because quite possibly as much as you WANT to believe Kiper is right, you MUST conisder that Jason may be as well.... Idiots.

Posted by: True Skins | April 29, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Can't Complain.


We landed arguably the top 2 WR in the Draft, the number 1 TE, and the number 1 Punter.

Whining because we didn't take a mediocre lineman is silly.

Posted by: Can La Canfora | April 29, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I found my way in about 18 months ago and don't seem to be able to get out now.

The jibba-jabba is of a very high quality here. There are a some really good Fins blogs, but they often tend toward the "he stands in too wide a stance in the five man front on third and short" stuff that lulls a fubball dunce like myself off to sleep.

So I guess you're stuck with me. And I have developed a soft-spot for the Redskins because of this place, they'll forever be my "mostly second, sometimes third" team for what that's worth.

Posted by: Redcoat | April 29, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

SLC -- I agree with EVERYTHING you say. And I rarely agree with EVERYTHING someone says unless she is naked ... or might be soon

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I see you pulling that cats tail

Posted by: Solo | April 29, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"he stands in too wide a stance".

I made the team! I made the team!

Posted by: Sen. Craig | April 29, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Ever since I got a real job I am on less. That and times like just after the draft I tend to avoid as thats when the crazies come on.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I know we have a Blog meet up in a month or so. But there should be one sometime before that. Thoughts?

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

A new UDFA name for the Skins I hadn't seen till just now. Curtis Gatewood, a four year starter at Vanderbilt (first two at OLB, second two at DE). I don't follow that conference much ... is Vanderbilt any good at football?

http://vucommodores.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/gatewood_curtis00.html

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

dcsween, they are in a legit conference.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I like chocolate.
Anything on Jason Taylor? Jags? Bucs? Skins?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Real job? Ain't we all doctors and lawyers anyway?

Posted by: Dr. Blog, Esq. | April 29, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

alex, I'm the same way.

Its hard though... I imagine everyone is like "where's Dorf? He's so witty and contributes greatly to the super smartness of the blog."

Posted by: Dorf | April 29, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Before I could criticize, I had to watch.

So last night I watched "Dancin' With The Stars."

Afterwards, the only thought remaining from my obviously vacant brain was "I don't want Jason Taylor for the Skins anymore."

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Dorf, I know I feel that way. I even see the occasional WWDD post. Not literally of course. And I am a video expert and multimedia person for an AIDS group. Not a real real job but still.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Predicition: 3-5 wins.

I like what we did with the draft but realisticly we are rebuilding. We can use our top 5 pick next season on a stud DT.

Take him of the board. Championship.

Posted by: etrod | April 29, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

beep! beep!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

As bad as it was to watch that clip of Jason Taylor dancing to the MNF theme song, I still believe he guarantees 10 plus sacks. I don't think he is a MUST HAVE though.

Anyone see the clip of Manning screaming at Center Jeff Saturday on the sidelines?

Posted by: Teo | April 29, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Oh, second 2:42pm, you are a tease ... and a bastard.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Shannon Boatman is a 6-5, 315-pound offensive right tackle. He also played some guard for Florida State, so he has some versatility. He started two years and is thought to be a good developmental prospect. Boatman was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at age 17, but he has been able to keep the disease in check.

Offensive lineman Kerry Brown is a 6-5, 305-pound guard from Appalachian State. He started four years and was a Division I-AA All-American. He is regarded as a tough, physical lineman who needs to fine-tune his technique.

Kyle Devan (Getty Images)
Devin Clark is a 6-3, 305-pound offensive right tackle from New Mexico. He is expected to move inside to guard at the pro level, though. He participated in national Olympic-style weightlifting competitions, so he is a strong, stout player. He may have been bypassed in the draft due to recent ankle surgery.

Kyle DeVan played mostly center at Oregon State. He was a three-year starter and registered 232 knock-down blocks overall. He stands at 6-2 and 300 pounds.

Posted by: UFA OL signed by Redskins | April 29, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Defensive end Alonzo Dotson is 6-4 and 260 pounds. He played in 14 games with Redskins second round draft pick Malcolm Kelly last year and recorded 20 tackles and two sacks. His father Santana played for the Green Bay Packers in the 1990s and his grandfather Alphonse played for John Madden's Oakland Raiders in the 1970s.


Sound like he has a good shot at a future in the NFL.

Posted by: UFA DL Redskins Signing | April 29, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Quarterback Bret Meyer joins the Redskins as one of five QBs on the off-season roster. He is expected to compete with rookie draft pick Colt Brennan and first-year player Sam Hollenbach for a backup job. He completed 233-of-382 passes for nine touchdowns and 13 interceptions as a senior at Iowa State.

Safety Kevin Mitchell is a 6-0, 209-pounder who led the Big Ten in passes defended last year. He was tied for third in the Big Ten with five interceptions. He also logged 75 tackles and 11 pass deflections. Mitchell is not related to the late Redskins linebacker Kevin Mitchell.

Matteral Richardson is 5-11, 194 pounds and regarded as physical cornerback and sound tackler. He started three years at Arkansas, finishing with 180 tackles, 27 pass break-ups and four interceptions. Nicknamed "Red," he should compete for a special teams job early on.

Safety Justin Scott was a two-year starter at Purdue. Last year, the 6-0, 209-pounder recorded 73 tackles, one sack and three interceptions.

Defensive end Dorian Smith played two years at Oregon State as a junior college transfer, but started just one season. The 6-1, 264-pounder recorded 72 tackles, 22 tackles for a loss and 15 sacks.

Bryan Wilson is a 6-3, 250-pound outside linebacker who earned 2007 All-MEAC first-team defense honors. He logged 50 tackles, a team-high seven sacks and a league-high six forced fumbles. Wilson hails from Temple Hills, Md. He attended the Redskins' local college workout.

Posted by: More UFA signings by Redskins | April 29, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

who posted the fake Beep Beep!

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Ever since I got a real job I am on less. That and times like just after the draft I tend to avoid as thats when the crazies come on.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 2:28 PM

I guess that is my que to check in. lol F CL

Posted by: jm220 | April 29, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

So last night I watched "Dancin' With The Stars."

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 2:39 PM

I'm in complete denial about the whole thing. The program you refer to above simply doesn't exist, therefore no Dolphins player can ever have been on it - true?

Posted by: Redcoat | April 29, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Alex -- its a good point on Blache. Will he stick around if they don't draft for defense? Not for long.

Will Bugel stick around if he has a line of all 30+ players and one pick in 2 years?

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 1:18 PM

Bugel loves grooming young unknown commodities and would rather make the undrafted into NFL starter(S. Heyer)

Skin O-line proved they had depth last year when everyone got hurt and the backups stepped up and filled the whole well.

Posted by: Bugel Rocks | April 29, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat, it happened ... and the player formerly considered scary is no longer scary ... unless "Billy Eliot" scared you.

Also, on the scariness factor, I think all Skins' players should wear a scary black mouthguard like the one Patrick Kearney wears. Nothing says scary like no teeth.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Skin O-line proved they had depth last year when everyone got hurt and the backups stepped up and filled the whole well.

Posted by: Bugel Rocks | April 29, 2008 2:55 PM

... and in case there was any doubt about the proof of depth, they signed two more after the Super Bowl, drafted another, and then added four more after the draft.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Also, on the scariness factor, I think all Skins' players should wear a scary black mouthguard like the one Patrick Kearney wears. Nothing says scary like no teeth.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 2:57 PM

I say if you want to scare a bunch of NFL players have the whole team wear rainbow helmets with a purple triangle logo on it. No NFL player would tackle us if it makes them look gay.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I was gonna ask why is there almost a thousand comments from a post of yesterday.

Then, I started reading the blog post and ..........

The rest is history....

I don't know where to start, so I won't, for now.

I guess no one likes working for the Redskins......

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 29, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

No Sween, it didn't happen. So I guess we can't be having this conversation either!

Posted by: Redcoat | April 29, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Yeah!!!

I'm 930th!

Posted by: DC Voter | April 29, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

So I got an idea for the Dolphins. Bring back Dan. Worked for us and Gibbs.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

scary... or perhaps good at character acting, and therefore award-worthy:

"[Walter Brennan's] unique talent to portray older men before turning 40 years old helped him receive character roles, and subsequently propelled him to notoriety. His ability to adapt to older characters was partially due to two serious accidents. He lost half of his teeth in a World War I gas accident and lost the remaining ones in an early movie accident. That fact, coupled with his enormous talent, enabled Brennan to receive 3 Best Supporting Actor Oscars in his lifetime. Besides 1936, Brennan once again received Best Supporting Oscars in 1938 and 1940 for Kentucky and The Westerner."

http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/Research/r_a_bren.html

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

Since I am still wearing my burgundy glasses I predict the largest margin of victory will be the 2nd game we play against the girls.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

So I got an idea for the Dolphins. Bring back Dan. Worked for us and Gibbs.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 3:07 PM

Do you mean Dan or Don, Alex? Having Shula coach would be a hoot, but watching Marino try to play just might make me cry - particularly if he actually completed some passes!

Posted by: Redcoat | April 29, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

way to post the homophobic humor anon

coward.

Posted by: Dorf | April 29, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I know some people get bad gas Nate (particularly if they're suffering from Sween's earlier "disease of the day") but what would you have to be suffering from to have a 'gas accident' so bad you lost your teeth!!

The Quiet Man is one of my favo(u)rite movies - mainly because I've always had a huge crush on Maureen O'Hara - and I thought Walter Brennan was great in that.

I meant to respond to your mention of him yesterday but sadly work intruded - for the second time this month. Really!

Posted by: Redcoat | April 29, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Curzon, I like the cut of your jib!

Here's hoping we have several sizeable margins of victory to compare!

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Well if you bring back Don I assume Dan comes with him so I guess both. And I do loves makin fun of the homophobes.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Bugel Rocks ... hey, I think Bugel is great, but I'm pretty certain he's all for having talent. Coaching up an undrafted FA may be fun ... until he faces Patrick Kearney. Even with Bostic, Jacoby and Grimm on his line in the late 80's, the Skins traded for Jim Lachey. Lachey had been to a couple Pro Bowls before the trade and helped the Skins to another SB.

So ... bonus points to whoever knows who we gave up to get Lachey

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat, I believe the disease title you were looking for is Beaver Fever ... and the gas to which you refer is the "foul or sulphuric-tasting belch, which has been known to be so nauseating in taste that it can cause the infected person to vomit."

Speaking of which, I'm off to grab another bag of Doritos.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Jay Schoeder.

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Greater redskins icon? The Hogs or the Hoggetts?

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Alex, probably this Hoggett:

http://www.eskimo.com/~toates/babe/barthur2.jpg

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Greater redskins icon? The Hogs or the Hoggetts?

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 3:41 PM

Can't have one without the other. Like pie and ala mode.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 29, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Bonus Points to Greg.

Jay Schroeder to the Raiders for Jim Lachey. Folks, that's what you call grand larceny. But no one wanted to prosecute the Skins, because they ripped off Al Davis.

Tell you how bad Jay Schroeder really was. The Raiders had talent around him. Tim Brown. Bo Jackson. James Lofton. Marcus Allen. Holy smokes. The first year, Lofton catches ZERO TDs. Schroeder accomplishes nothing as a Raider. The year he leaves, Tim Brown's career takes off.

So how come Schroeder looked good as a Redskin? Tells you how good Monk and Clark really were.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Dan Marino ... Don Shula ... I certainly don't want either brought back anywhere near FedEx.

I do hope, however, that Brooks Durant will consider bringing back head gear like this:

http://i.pbase.com/o6/40/326640/1/86890077.0X5xaY91.REK103.jpg

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

+++I've never seen such a collection of morons

Posted by: Wend | April 29, 2008 12:30 PM+++

You really should get out of your Moms' basement more often. there's a wide variety of Morons out there.

Posted by: Corkczar, trying to be helpful | April 29, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Taylor v. Tuna battle heating up:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3373679

IMHO for the right price (3rd and a roleplayer??) he could really improve the skins.

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

to me, J-Taylor could be LBF 2.0 for skins....

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Lachey for Jay Schroeder - once again proving the Raiders organization is the greatest worst organization in the league.

On the other hand I think we've squandered all the good trade karma we got from that since then except for our 1&2 punch in first round.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Jason Taylor is an interesting case. Not a lot of career left (he's 34?) but he is still a good player. He is a good fit for a 'win now' team. So the question is ...

Are the Skins a 'rebuilding team' or a 'win now' team??

Which is really a great question, now that I think about it!!!

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

What is funny is that if we would have selected a no name DL or OL instead of Kelly just because of the position, half the bloggers here today would be saying how badly the FO did.

Skins will win 9 games this year.

Posted by: CT Skins Fan | April 29, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

AL, Zeke, etc, did you see the tee shirt Alex35332 made, based on your suggestion? Linked above...


Anyhoo, link to Schroeder's career stats below. (Agreed that we crushed that trade, Davis is an idiot, etc. Lachey was something, wasn't he?)

In Schroeder's best season ('86) he threw 22 TDs and 22 INTs... 4100 yards and a rating of a measly 72.9! Wow. Couple of good seasons with the Raiduhs, and that was that...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchrJa00.htm?redir

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

The only greater trade was Snead for Jurgensen.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 29, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Wow, almost 1,000 posts on a single thread....I don't have the time to read through everything, there's just too much.
Has anyone asked: "A tight end? WTF?!!!!"

Posted by: dlhaze | April 29, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Are the Skins a 'rebuilding team' or a 'win now' team??

Which is really a great question, now that I think about it!!!

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 3:52 PM

With someone like Taylor, everything changes, we become a win now team.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

J-Schroeder is mega-tool....but i got mad luv for him just the same......

he did take raiders to afc champ game and got crushed, also took skins to nfc champ game a got crushes...he refused to sign an autograph for my bro (monkaliscious) one time....

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

What'd I win?

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

win now all the way.

Posted by: Teo | April 29, 2008 3:58 PM | Report abuse

The Raiders are in rebuilding mode so let's see.

This year Darren McFadden will hold out until Octobar for his $50 mill with $20 mil guarantee (that's what he wants)and play small role in November and December.

Then next year with #1-4 pick they'll pick a WR who will pull a hammy at fan day while running away from crazed fans and their skull heads.

In about 10 years they'll have a complete roster of stars and Russell will retire.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the link Nate ... I'd missed it. But its perfect for that Skins / 49er game. Could sell a ton!!

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Also, since I haven't been keeping up, have any "anons" been criticizing Jasno, and wondering what his agenda is? Maybe someone should tell him to go cover another team. Maybe in Baltimore......

Posted by: dlhaze | April 29, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Greg, you won bonus points. Big time bonus points

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Jason,
Any word on the skins looking at Tommy Blake from TCU?

Posted by: Bryan | April 29, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Skins are neither rebuilding or poised for greatness....much like most of the NFL..nobody really rebuilds like in NHL/NBA/MLB way b/c the window is always there...i.e. Giants

I think that the skins are attempting a phase out, by growing younger gradually and opting at the end of camp to keep youth over Vets at end of roster cuts...

That said Taylor is like LBF in that they are freaks physically who will have longer careers, amazing at what they do, team guys, team leaders.

Taylor would give us a weapon on D, Carter would draw crazy single coverage and Daniels could join the rotation at DT that could then go 5 deep. Wilson/Buzbee could essentially keep same role. This would also lessen some burden on our thin/young LB core...

Just dreaming aloud...don't flame me bro!

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

And surely Al Davis has the same secret cyborg technology that Dick Cheney does. So he'll never actually die.

Either that or he has a clause in his will that says the Raiders will have to wheel his stuffed dead body out to the owners box and prop it up dressed in track suit and shades like they did with Mao at military parades in China.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

You guys talkin' best trades for the Skins? How about Oliphant for Byner.....another good one.

Posted by: dlhaze | April 29, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Curzon -- you make the point well. The Skins are on the fence. Win now or rebuild? Is one good player is the difference?

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

nice one dlhaze!


also the saints/Ricky wiliams one that landed us all those draft picks...

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Great question on whether we are rebuilding or have a "win now" attititude. I may have to lean more towards rebuilding, especially with a new, unproven coach with a new system. But rebuilding may easily turn into "win now" especially with our talent. We're not the Patriots, but we ain't the Raiders either.

Posted by: sicwidit | April 29, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Where can I cash in those bonus points....something seems strange about this...

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

was brad johnson a trade or fa signing???? that was a brilliant move...

undercutting his leadership with the J George debacle (calm down greg were just chewing on skins history...) was one of the tragic blunders of the last 16 years....imagine him on that Marty team???? He could have been a rock for skins....

after years in QB wilderness I appreciated him as our QB...

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

To me, I think its rebuild. Close call.

Which sucks. But a new coach with zero HC experience, a new offense and new offense staff, zero free agents, 9 draft picks, young QB and a new DC ... all that sounds like 'rebuilding'.

Rebuilding kind of sucks considering this team made the playoffs and had a very unique chemistry. Plus a lot of good veterans who are in their 30's. I'm thinking the approach is to rebuild, but attempt to be competitive in the process.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Okay so apologies if this discussion was had months ago.

I just looked at photo gallery via link above on J-Zo and it's really weird he doesn't look the same in virtually any picture.

I've been trying to figure out who he looks like. So far I've come up with a combination Jimmy Stewart and Scott Glen.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Greg, you can cash those bonus points in at participating locations

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

One thing that scares me is Zorn basically admitting that he is behind, or getting slightly overwhelmed. They REALLY should have taken advantage of the extra minicamp rule that 1st year coaches get. He might have gotten too into the draft, but I guess we'll see. If we can keep the O-line healthy all year, we may only need to run 4 or 5 different running plays. Our O-line has some good potential to dominate the LOS, and there might now be some seriousness when people say the Skins can use sets to spread the defenses. I say don't re-build, just keep things relatively simple.

Posted by: dlhaze | April 29, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

*shudder*

Jeff George . . . . the horror . . . the horror

*shudder*

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

AL, Zeke, etc,

I think that the correct "one player" could take us over to the win now side. With Taylor, Carter has more sacks, our DT have a better chance to collapse the pocket and helps our secondary not be in coverage so long that the WRs break open. And, that would give us the "breathing room" to upgrade our DL.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

the non-hater in me thinks the skins have an interesting mix of youth and vets that could be something special...

or it could implode like like a rave with bad exstascy...

better not to look to history for guidance here...

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Brad cost the skins a dance step....a 1, and a 2, and a 3.....Looking back, that might not have been a good trade after all.

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Curzon, I'm kind of agreeing with that. One player might be the difference. The offense is changing a lot, but the talent is good when healthy. The defense was looking really sweet, with both talent and depth ... but its a bit dicey w/o Sean, Rocky and Carlos.

The Skins have enough talent to 'go for it', but all the mgmt moves seem to be built around rebuilding.

I'm guessing they don't want to splurge while trying to decide if Jason Campbell can take them far. If Campbell does pan out, I think they reload in a hurry. Otherwise, its rebuild and dump the pricey guys come 2009.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Anybody ever wondered why John Jefferson (former great WR for San Diego Chargers) is the Director of Player Development and not the Wide Receivers Coach? Jefferson was a BEAST!!!

Posted by: sicwidit | April 29, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Saw some highlights of Limas Sweed. Good hand but terrible route running. Not crisp at all. Malcolm Kelly seems better to me. I am actually excited about Devin Thomas. He is strong and fast and has the ability to fight for the ball. We'll be hearing JC to DT for years to come.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of whether or not Campbell is our franchise QB, anyone know what his contract looks like? My point is, when do they need to make a serious decision about him and give him an extension, or renegotiate to less money, or cut him? Anyone?

Posted by: dlhaze | April 29, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't Jason Taylor play the same position as Carter? You could move one guy to the other side, but its a transition that seems to be tough, especially for the pass rushers.

I think the 49ers did that with Chris Doleman. Flipped him to the other side. He didn't play well. Went back to his original side and was instantly back to being a stud.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of whether or not Campbell is our franchise QB, anyone know what his contract looks like? My point is, when do they need to make a serious decision about him and give him an extension, or renegotiate to less money, or cut him? Anyone?
Posted by: dlhaze | April 29, 2008 4:24 PM

This is his 4th year, and they probably didn't sign him to more than 5, so i Guess it could be considered a "contract year" for him? Let's hope he plays up to it.

Posted by: dlhaze | April 29, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Good point DL, I don't know when Campbell's contract is up, but this is his 4th year coming up. Serious decision time can't be far away ...

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

greg, since we ran BJ out of town the trade retro grades bad, if he stayed a steady QB for us another 4/5 seasons (ahem TB/SB...) than it would have been worth it....

also remember the QB nightmare after Rypien...John Friese anyone....?

I can see why skins were a bit desperate for a solid starter at that point....

Ahh skins post 93 history....going to go curl up in a ball and weep now....

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Best to live in the past CL. Get some comfort food and head to the '80s.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

CL no doubt had they signed him to a long term deal that would have more than worked out in our favor.

sigh....

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Its been fun, but I gotta run. CL, good luck getting out of that fetal position. Greg, enjoy them bonus points

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

worst modern era (Post Ryp) Skins QBs of all time?

Hmm...I gotta go Wuerfel...or shane mathewes

Tony Banks might technically be it...but that dude balled his guts out the second half of Shotenhiemer year....he wasnt good...but he tried hard...

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I mean remember the shame of Shane????

Posted by: chris larrY | April 29, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

1000th!


BooooYaaaa

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Shuler was far worse than Wuerffel and Mathews.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

You forgot about me, Chris!

Posted by: Congressman Shuler | April 29, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

I still don't know where to claim my bonus points....

Posted by: Greg | April 29, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

What about Jeff George and Tim Hasselback

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone link ESPN's Todd McShay's analysis of the NFC East Draft, where he picked the 'Skins draft as the best?

"What a great job they did drafting..." said McShay.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3372862&categoryId=2459789

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, JLC.

Posted by: SCSkins | April 29, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Not that it matters but I remember Tim Hasselback having the lowest rating as a QB in Madden a few years in a row, I think it was 36 or so.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Sween, are you happy that they picked a punter? If I recall correctly, you thought that they should pick one or more.

Posted by: M | April 29, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Sween, are you happy that they picked a punter? If I recall correctly, you thought that they should pick one or more.

Posted by: M | April 29, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

"WR Moss for WR Coles, then making David Patten a key free agent in 2005, then giving $10-million guaranteed to Randle El and Lloyd in 2006,"

Okay, WRs that seem to be pretty danged good from this list...
* Moss (finally delivered on his promise)
* Coles (a great, money hands receiver)
* Patten (doing great in NO; why was he misused in DC)
* ARE (possibly the most reliable WR on the roster in 07)

Leaving us with... Lloyd, who we all know was a huge misstep.

Look, I stopped reading to write this (will finish in a sec) shortly after the negativity without alternative popped back up. Sure, that's lots of resources into one position, but you're trying to say the fellow in the 4th round will be better than the Skins' 2nd rounders? That's crazy. It could happen, but smart money isn't on your boy being better than what the Skins got.

What should the Skins have done, Mr. 20-20 hindsight, the last three seasons. Better yet, what should they be doing this season? What's really been lacking recently isn't criticism but alternatives, and without alternatives, all your have is the rhetoric of negation, a half-argument.

Posted by: worstSeat | April 29, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Worst QB last 15 years? Hard to choose from such a l-o-n-g list.

Wuerffel was way way way way bad.

Shane Matthews? Oh mah gawd.

Shuler? What do you say? My eyes! My eyes!

Jeff *shudder* George - remember the 37-0 MNF a$$ kicking by GB?

cL move over I'm coming into the corner with you.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

This is so ridiculous.

I'm getting all ticked off and red faced about the Spurrier years again. I think hands down that was the worse decision by Snee.

Actually makes this year and draft look pretty good in perspective.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Sorry I killed th blog with bad memories.


SERENITY NOW
SERENITY NOW
SERENITY NOW

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

With the prices on WRs, even the bad ones, going through the roof and the Redskins always flirting with cap-tastrophe, I cheer picking two stud WRs and a great TE (possible hybrid TE-big WR???).
You've got to be kidding me with all the complaining - every other defense knew that we would either throw to Cooley, or Moss (if he was in a catching mood, or otherwise not injured on the sideline). They'd stack 8 in the box and the other three defenders would be all over Cooley (Moss, like it or not, is on the decline and dropped waaay too many passes, has definitely lost a step, and is too injury prone, he's like our version of JD Drew).
In the redzone we basically could ONLY throw to Cooley or whatever other TE/FB H-back was available. Now we have options.

I like options.

I also like the fact that one, if not all of these guys, are going to pan out pretty well. Thomas is the class of the WR draft supposedly, Kelly looks awesome, and Davis is undoubtedly going to help this whole team, including Cooley, score more points. You prissies act like they just cut Cooley by signing Davis. Of course not! I don't worry too much though, after two seasons with this team the same people decrying these picks will be rocking their jerseys.

Posted by: perfect picks | April 29, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

this thing still on..... see we are debating if our draft was good or bad, the merits of three recievers and dl or lb not enough ol etc....truth is its all unknown not only to us but the other 31 teams with their picks or non picks.....the league is all one thin line...the margin between good and not good is very thin and changes each season, only a few teams are mark it down contenders every year.....they all have play makers and a franchise QB...I don't think its real hard to find good lineman if you have a good line coach (we have) the line is really a unit not a position (except LT)...we play a solid defensive scheme, thats the reason we are a good D, not the talent we have, i think that continues.....as bad as our front office has been, i go into each season thinking the moves they made are the right moves, then when they have become the wrong moves (hindsight 20/20) i sling the mud, i guess i am a half full type......but you gotta have a basis each year to start from , mine is that we are a solid team, comming off a playoff season, but need playmakers and better more consistent play out of our young QB.......you can disect and slice and dice all you want,but if you don't get high level consistent play from your QB,you never get the stability to develope the rest of the temporary pieces around that player to be a consistent contender.....this message will be repeated throughout the season, you can choose to skip over my posts, but I will continue to repeat myself and use hindsight to evaluate each move we make or didn't make, insuring my takes are on the money........

Posted by: Old School | April 29, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

AL, Zeke, etc,

I think that the correct "one player" could take us over to the win now side.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 29, 2008 4:14 PM

I agree 100% The Skins were in the playoffs two out of the last three years and are definitely not rebuilding. Potentially they could improve by 2-3 wins this year simply by utilizing a more effective offensive scheme, better red-zone efficiency, and a healthy OL; improving the ST play; and getting a similar defensive performance.

I think the "one player" could be one of the drafted WRs -- although I could make a case that the new punter could significantly improve ST and field position...

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

The Bengals drafted Florida's Andre Caldwell in the third round Sunday, giving Cincinnati two receivers in their first four picks. When asked to name his favorite receiver, Caldwell said, "Chad Johnson!"

"I idolized him," Caldwell said. "I see him make plays. That's who I model my game after."

AP via FoxSports

--------------------------------

Marvin Lewis just pissed himself...

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 5:27 PM | Report abuse

good call old school, i think you pretty much hit it on the head that everything seems to revolve around the QB position. and i know we haven't seen the consistency we would like, i think Jason Campbell really is the future here. and i like the way they're bringing in guys they think can be weapons to help him feel more comfortable in this new offense and develop more quickly. i also agree that the O-Line needs to be addressed sooner rather than later, but maybe the Skins front office knows something about the health of guys like Jansen and Thomas that we don't. and while i think banking on Heyer and Rinehart to be the future of the Line are risky propositions, it would be great if they can develop these guys to become just that. Good draft, but let's try to stop the JLC bashing too. He does have some good points and his negativity gets highlighted much moreso than the positive things he says and points out. Time will tell

Posted by: bruce | April 29, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

this thing still on..... see we are debating if our draft was good or bad, the merits of three recievers and dl or lb not enough ol etc....truth is its all unknown not only to us but the other 31 teams with their picks or non picks.....the league is all one thin line...the margin between good and not good is very thin and changes each season, only a few teams are mark it down contenders every year.....they all have play makers and a franchise QB...I don't think its real hard to find good lineman if you have a good line coach (we have) the line is really a unit not a position (except LT)...we play a solid defensive scheme, thats the reason we are a good D, not the talent we have, i think that continues.....as bad as our front office has been, i go into each season thinking the moves they made are the right moves, then when they have become the wrong moves (hindsight 20/20) i sling the mud, i guess i am a half full type......but you gotta have a basis each year to start from , mine is that we are a solid team, comming off a playoff season, but need playmakers and better more consistent play out of our young QB.......you can disect and slice and dice all you want,but if you don't get high level consistent play from your QB,you never get the stability to develope the rest of the temporary pieces around that player to be a consistent contender.....this message will be repeated throughout the season, you can choose to skip over my posts, but I will continue to repeat myself and use hindsight to evaluate each move we make or didn't make, insuring my takes are on the money........

Posted by: Old School | April 29, 2008 5:18 PM

Old School, I agree with you, particularly regarding importance of "high level consistent play from your QB." We will know a lot more about Jason Campbell this year, when he has more targets and an opportunity to work with his receivers during the offseason. What I like about this year's draft is that they are putting Jason in the best position to succeed. It might not pan out as planned and we won't know it for a while, but there is some sound logic behind their draft decisions this year. At least if Santana is banged up, JC should have several better fall-back options than Brandon Lloyd.

Posted by: M | April 29, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Jason,
Any word on the skins looking at Tommy Blake from TCU?

Posted by: Bryan | April 29, 2008 4:02 PM

I think he got picked up by Tampa Bay.

M, yes, I am ... but like Greg, I'm trying to figure out how to redeem my bonus points.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Really long winded posts are bad.

Copy and pasting somebody else's really long post is even worse.


Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

I can't find anything that says the Buccs actually signed Tommy Blake, just that they had him there to practice yesterday. [He's the guy with some depression issues.]

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

"...we play a solid defensive scheme, thats the reason we are a good D, not the talent we have, i think that continues"

Oldschool, agree with most of what you said, but gotta take issue with the above quote. I think our 2006 season pretty much disproved GG's "its my system not the players" argument.

Posted by: nws2c | April 29, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

For those you aspiring sport's novelists posting on RI, please...think...

Concise!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

nws2c, in 2007, Grilliams was pretty candid with Big Media about simplifying his system b/c it wasn't working in 2006. [Personally, I think the reason it wasn't working in 2006 was b/c there were only 10 starters on the field ... and Archuleta or his replacement failing to fill the void created by Archuleta.]

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

For those you aspiring sport's novelists posting on RI, please ... think... Concise!

Posted by: | April 29, 2008 5:48 PM

Shouldn't that be an adverb? Concisely?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Report abuse

Is your post longer than the original one, by JLa?

If so, it should aim to provide us at RI with some real, substantive information, which is no easy task.

Just ask JLa. He's lost without Byner!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

I just love how most of the people placing comments complain about the writer yet keep reading his stuff and have enough time to comment! Its just great! If you don't like his writing, don't read it let alone comment about it. Are you a bunch of idiots???

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

my bad.

"Concisely," it should be; need a new editor.

fire that guy!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

I just love how most of the people placing comments complain about the writer yet keep reading his stuff and have enough time to comment! Its just great! If you don't like his writing, don't read it let alone comment about it. Are you a bunch of idiots???

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 5:52 PM

JLaC? Is that you?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | April 29, 2008 5:54 PM | Report abuse

anon at 5:52:

Lighten up! We rip each other all the time here at RI, and yes, we rip on JLa too.

It's all in good fun.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

I think 5:52 was totally JLa.

That was totally him...

Busted!

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Not trying to take a swipe Grilliams, just saying you can't say talent matters on offense but not defense. The 2006 season pretty clearly showed it helps on D if the players can do things like generate a pass rush or say, make tackles.

Posted by: nws2c | April 29, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

scampbell1975 - you are one of them. All I'm saying is why are you reading his stuff if you don't like what he writes? Go read something else and make yourself smarter instead of trashing someone's writing you don't like. You clearly are spending time reading his blogs and commenting on them. Not defending JLaC but he writes a blog and is entitled to write whatever the hell he wants to. Again, if you don't like it, no one is making you read it!

Posted by: Anonymouse | April 29, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Old School is more often than not the voice of wisdom and reason in the maelstrom of RI hamsterville so as a rabid fan who has an at best average understanding of le fubol I appreciate the posts regardless of length.

And now for the slings and arrows . . .

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Loser that I am, I just counted the guys on the Skins roster, then the number of guys they drafted, plus the undrafted guys they signed.

I counted 92. When do they have to get that number down? Or can it keep swelling to a higher number until some date?

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Hey Scamp, that anon poster is owning you right now.

Whatcha gonna do about it?

lol!

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Sween,

That number can go as high as it wants to.


Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

I'm still chuckling about the Schroeder for Lachey trade. I mean is there a bigger steal out there in last 20 odd years?

Maybe the Favre trade in 1992 but he was unknown quantity unlike Lachey who was ProBowl.
In hindsight the H. Walker trade to Minny that netted all those draft picks but even that wasn't immediate.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 6:07 PM | Report abuse

This just in....Jason Taylor is a better dancer than you.

Posted by: anon | April 29, 2008 6:07 PM | Report abuse

sween - I think they can have 2000 guys until the cut dates in August/Sept.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

sfskin, agree to agree re: Old School as the dean of this here academy, but he and I disagree on his core point. His core point is that its about franchise QB + coach connection in order to be great, whereas my bottom line says a team rises and fall on its offensive line.

I hadn't reminded myself about this in a while, but it occurs to me that Eli Manning + Tom Coughlin did not a franchise QB and a coach connection make, but rather that the Pats O-line failed.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

BTW yes 2000 is the official NFL number. . .

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Sween,

That number can go as high as it wants to.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:06 PM

"But this one can go one LOUDER ... This one goes to eleven."

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

This just in....Jason Taylor is a better dancer than you.

Posted by: anon | April 29, 2008 6:07 PM


---------------------

Now, that is funny!

Speaking of Jason Taylor; Anyone think a trade for JT is even remotely possible, even worth considering?

Sure would be a nice addition, but one would think a trade, if it was going to happen, would have already happened?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Spinal Tap...

Awesome!

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Other Old School chestnuts that can never be denied:

1. The fan's right (and obligation!) to reserve 20/20 hindsight, and

2. Root for the jersey; the player is only wearing it.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

JT is old and eyeing Hollywood. We don't need another overpriced, undermotivated player.

Posted by: SCSkins | April 29, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

sween - agree with you on the o-line too.

Norvalicious Turner is good example of coach who can have great connection with QB but fails and flails until o-line is solid.

But I'm not sure it's possible for a team to be successful if either one of those elements is missing. The Gints example may prove me wrong.

Maybe it's as much a OC or QBC connection that needs to exist if not an HC connection with qback.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

In hindsight the H. Walker trade to Minny that netted all those draft picks but even that wasn't immediate.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 6:07 PM

--------------------

When you consider Herschel's multiple personalities that trade seems less, or more preposterous?

I'm confused on this one.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

SCSkins,

Didn't ask if the trade would be a good one, simply if it was likely to be pursued by the FO.

Thanks for the evaluation on JT, though. Straight to my inbox; filed under "O" for opinion.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse

When you consider Herschel's multiple personalities, the trade for all those draft picks might have broken even.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse

To echo others (dept of redundant redundancies at your service).

Doesn't Jason Taylor play same side as Carter? Neither is a switch hitter as it were so what would be the point?

You bring in Taylor for a year or two and piss of Carter or send him packing only to have to fill the slot again sooner rather than later. I think Carter's performance is worth more than that kind of shoddy treatment plus you may stir bad blood into the locker room again for overpriced vet signing.

Posted by: sfskin | April 29, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

JT is old and eyeing Hollywood. We don't need another overpriced, undermotivated player.

Posted by: SCSkins | April 29, 2008 6:15 PM

----------------------

Perhaps we can say Jason has diverse interests? His obligation on Dancing is in the off season, buddy.

...and there's nothing wrong with having your eye on Hollywood. Can you really blame the guy?

Geeez!

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Jason Taylor can rush the passer from either side; dude is multi talented.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Don't know if I buy this "bad blood among veterans theory" either.

A true professional would have no issue with the FO bringing in quality help, even if the guy happens to play the same position as you.

IF Andre Carter wanted to whine about bringing a pro bowl sack artist to DC, then let Andre Carter go play somewhere else.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

While JT is Dancing with the Stars, his teammates are working out in Miami.

Check Parcell's reaction to a recent run-in with JT:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3373679

Posted by: SCSkins | April 29, 2008 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Now beating a dead horse:

IF Jason Taylor would join the Redskins' defensive line, then Andre Carter could slide his butt over to the other side.

(Jason Taylor trade won't happen, point is moot, my bad.)


Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:39 PM | Report abuse

SC,

Sorry, dude. Thanks for that link.

After watching that dancing clip on ESPN, I say stick with who we got on our line, regardless of pass rushing ability.

Thanks, again.


Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

To heck with Jason Taylor.

NO WAY!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3373679

Thanks, again SC.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 29, 2008 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Will there ver be another RI blog entry?

This guy seems to be pissed.

Posted by: Skip in VA | April 29, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

++++Also, on the scariness factor, I think all Skins' players should wear a scary black mouthguard like the one Patrick Kearney wears. Nothing says scary like no teeth.

Posted by: dcsween | April 29, 2008 2:57 PM++++


If nothing says scary like no teeth why are the WVU Mountaineers undefeated every year?

Posted by: corkczar and his wife/sister | April 29, 2008 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone mentioned that Snyder has connections in Hollywood?

If he comes to us and restuctures, Snyder can get him on the next Cruise film....

That being said,

Heck No to Taylor!

Posted by: 4th | April 29, 2008 7:18 PM | Report abuse

I can dance better than Jason Taylor, and I'm faster than Curlin at the Preakness.

Posted by: Lekelvis Melvin | April 29, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

I *heart* Old School. He's the Mark Moseley of this blog community. Straight and true every time. It may not be pretty, and it sure ain't rocket science, but you can count on it.

As far as lengthy comments up here, and cutting and pasting lengthy comments, in the pantheon of uncool, fun-mitigating blog behaviors, that's WAY down the severity list. Maybe it's exacerbated right now because we're at the bottom of a very, very long thread. But I can deal with it. One man's opinion.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 7:47 PM | Report abuse

And I vote NO on Jason Taylor. NO on shoe-horning an all-publicity team player into our lunch-bucket D line. I saw that movie once, it was called "Bruce Smith," and it sucked. Not that

Adding younger, hungry, mean dudes to the rotation YES. Awarding top billing to older, close-to-the-expiration date supastar dudes NO.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Meant to say above, not that Jason Taylor would be half the self-aggrandizing, me-first stat-hound that Bruce "They're not saying Bruce, they're booing" Smith was when he wore the crimson and charcoal... but still, caveat emptor... or "caveat traditor"... or whatevsitor...

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 7:55 PM | Report abuse

I would agree about Old School a sports blog HOF caliber guy. I guess I am one of the few people who never was mad about the Bruce Smith thing. I feel like he put an honest effort in while he was here, just wish we had him at prime.

Posted by: Alex35332 | April 29, 2008 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Bruce for me became a bigger sore point than Deion, and that's saying something. At least with Deion we had a legit #1 corner who was honest about not liking contact. With Champ and Darrell we had a GREAT corner trio.

With Bruce we had a guy who wasn't much use on running downs but who wouldn't come off the field lest he miss an opportunity to add to his sack total and get closer to his stupid BS "record". And I remember Bruce didn't want to get physical in training camp, getting mad about Marty's Oklahoma drill. Or at least that's how I remember it.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with Jason Taylor. Or all of it has something to do with Jason Taylor. Or something.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

I still like JT - Bruce Smith comparison is I think unfair - LBF is a better one. But not sure it is a good idea / I am against it.

I think it goes back to the earlier comment re: rebuilding or SB push.

I would say if you believe cusp of SB then by god yes. Make fun of the guy for being on dancing shows or whatever but he is super motivated, a true professional, and widely respected by players (again LBF type attributes). But I believe this is a 3 year program (read: 6-10 in 08). While you can cite Mike Tomlin all you want, 95% of 1st yr coaches are below 500 by a lot. While you can say that post-playoffs coache replacements do a lot better you would be right - but still well below 50% even getting back to the playoffs or 500 I believe. I think Zorn will do great given all the handicaps (never HC, late hire, adjusting to new roles, new staff, tends to have detail focus vs. big picture HC focus etc.) but with so many questions (can JC play a full season and prove he is a legit top 5 guy? Who knows the offense? Will D play for GB the same as the guy they loved GW? Will JZ have the mastery of motivation that JG2.0 had (by the way in my view JG's greatest strength)....etc...)

To tie it back to the main thread: I don't like the draft if the team is on the cusp because the '1 player away' was not a 2nd reciever who was a clone of the guy they picked a bit ago...the one player away was definitely on the D side. But I do like it more when I am thinking longer term-good year to pick recievers (thanks Matt Millen)

So perhaps this is the source of some of the intense reactions here - some people are long termers and cheer the beginning of rebuiliding, while others (the folks freaked out about an antique D-line) are looking for payola now before the antiques fall off the shelves and shatter?

Posted by: zornskins | April 29, 2008 8:55 PM | Report abuse

And by "BS sack record" of course I mean that the league only started recording sack stats in the last 25 years or whatever, so there were dudes down through history who were proficient at tackling quarterbacks behind the line -- some of them probably more proficient than Bruce -- but who don't appear in those tallies.

Seeing Bruce Smith get the sack record in our uniform gave me no pleasure, except the relief that the freakin' wait was over and we could move on.

Probably how a lot of fans of whatever team Ricky Henderson played for when he finally, mercifully broke the all-time steals record after a boring, drawn out wait.

Whatever, just vamping here... these are not the comments you're looking for... move along, move along...

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse

You're right, of course, zornskins. Unfair of me to shunt J-Tay into the same unhappy cul-de-sac as end-of-career Bruce Smith.

Same thing with my inability to see Colt Brennan -- despite his stellar Hollywood pedigree -- as anything more than the spiritual heir of Andre Ware, Ty Detmer, David Klingler... Totally unreasonable and unfounded. Would love to be proven wrong. Love it. Just making conversation.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Jason Taylor's contract pays him $8 million this year. You trade for him, and that's what you pay him -- $8 million.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

I can't agree with JLC more here. The leadership and management of this team is really not what you would expect out of a professional organization. The strange, almost neurotic focus on wide receivers has left us with a number of units - including both lines - containing aging and injury-prone players.

We are one or two injuries in our defensive front seven, for instance, from absolute disaster. Can you imagine Carter and London Fletcher getting injured for instance?

Maybe we can always line up our receivers at linebacker and our tight-ends at defensive end?

I guess to look at our draft optimistically, if the NFL does change the rules to match flag football 7-on-7 with a 5-mississippi count then we would probably be able to field a pretty good team.

Posted by: Jiyan | April 29, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

This draft gives me hope that next year will truly be the year of the ballad of Jason.

Posted by: farstriker | April 29, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

1069th!!!!

Posted by: slow | April 29, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Gregg Williams told snyder during the interviews that he did not think Campbell was the right QB and wanted to change. Thats one of the main reasons he did not get the job. This was hinted at by riggo, saying he had very reliable sources.

Posted by: BigK | April 29, 2008 9:48 PM | Report abuse

BigK, so it wasn't that Snyder and Gibbs were really, really upset that Grilliams sent out ten players for our first defensive snap after Sean's death? That wasn't it? Huh. Seemed so plausible...

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Stick to your day job JLC

Oh wai

:(

Posted by: jesuisunpizza | April 29, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

The big question mark for this year isn't going to be so much the talent on the field as it is the learning curve of Zorn and Blache. The D should be decent enough to keep us in games -- even assuming that there is some dropoff from Grilliams (and if there's no dropoff, why did we keep him around?).
But the schedule is brutal early, and this could become one of those blow-up years very easily.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 29, 2008 10:07 PM | Report abuse

cload, I'm less worried about Blache (and I love it when cL calls him "Blanche" because it makes me think of the Golden Girls) than about Zorn, or Zorn and Campbell really, and how so much will devolve on them to make the O work.

Gibbs was so overprotective of Campbell, seemed to show a lack of confidence in him, and maybe stunted his growth, with that conservative play calling. I think the worm has turned and Zorn will open things up and ask Campbell to be the man, finally, and make plays all game long.

I do have confidence in Campbell -- a sight more than I have in Zorn, at this point -- but the whole thing seems so unlikely to work in their first season together. I sure hope so. I hope they're an exciting offense to watch, and I hope everybody stays healthy, and I hope lots and lots of things along those lines.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

Wow, been a while since we've had a 1000+ post! How are the ****matum numbers looking?

Posted by: kost52 | April 29, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Motto for the 2008 Redskins FO:

Lets throw it at the wall and see if it sticks

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Motto for the 2008 Redskins FO:

Lets throw it at the wall and see if it sticks

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 10:44 PM


Somebody's been looking at my recipe for spaghetti!

Posted by: kost52 | April 29, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

Gotta remember this too about our lines...

We have Joe Bugel still in charge of our OL, a man that can evaluate and turn just about any UFA into a legitimate starter.

Our defensive line really showed up big last year, and was one of the top run stopping lines in the league.

Add into that mix an offense that stays on the field longer, and this team is a sleeper, new coach/offense or not.

Posted by: jabedoben | April 29, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

Wow JLC. You aren't turning into a Cowboys fan are you

Its obvious that this organization feels they're able to COACH UP the UDFA lineman. Can't you see that?

"Skill" positions require talent that cannot be coached, can't you see that?

You're losing your fanbase, buddy. Can't you see that?

Posted by: Pick | April 29, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

I know a Geelong fan when he shows up ...

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Cats are still unbeaten

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 10:54 PM | Report abuse

I know a Geelong fan when he shows up ...

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 10:52 PM


The blue and white hoops give it away?

Posted by: kost52 | April 29, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse

I got an email coming your way later today. I'm the old overweight one

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Yep, lucked into a win last week though.

Posted by: kost52 | April 29, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Saw that. By 1 over Freemantle. Yikes

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 11:02 PM | Report abuse

Hail to the Geelong Cats!

Zeke, was that photo linked above from your Aussie adventure?

kost, I *think* draft weekend has put us maybe in the vicinity of 185k comments... okay, that's a wild guess. It's been a while since we heard from Cindy on the total. But it HAS been really busy up here. Mostly in a good way.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

I recalled looking at the schedule a few weeks back and it seemed like the Cats were going to finish April unbeaten, but the schedule toughens up in May

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Yup, it was in NZ at the Poor Knights Islands. If you want to see the whole trip, my girlfriends website is:

http://www.pbase.com/faerie_39/downunder08

She's a talented photographer.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse

It's pretty clear JLC won't be on the beat this year for one reason or another. his doing or someone elses, who knows. But, it's obvious he has given up. hope it all works out for him. he gave us great times up here for a couple years.

Posted by: capt | April 29, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Maybe it was the misspelled tattoo gave you away, kost!

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2008 11:15 PM | Report abuse

CALEB CAMPBELL being allowed to go to the NiFfLe is a great recruiting move for Army's football program. Gives great ball players hope that they may have an opportunity to do the same. I'd love to see Army Navy game mean something again to the outside world.

Posted by: CLEGG | April 29, 2008 11:21 PM | Report abuse

As a taxpayer, not thrilled with what the Army did there. Other than the $250k of education taxpayers provided this guy, it sets up some potential morale issues.

Especially for the person that IS going to Iraq that allows him to play in the NFL. Talk about a trade!!!

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Nate, Hahaha I had forgotten about that guy!

AL, Zeke, etc, pics look great!!

Posted by: kost52 | April 29, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse

I'll pass it on to Peiying ... though you can always leave a note on her site

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 29, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Nate,
Can't argue with having confidence in Blache, but they didn't pay Grilliams for nothing. Just seeing how the HC search went down, my (very humble) opinion is that theDan would've fired Grilliams after 2006 were his wishes unchecked.
And I know they're clearly compatible, and the personnel are similar, but I can't shake the feeling that Grilliams was getting a lot of productivity out of what I honestly think of as average talent.
But Zorn is certainly the biggest question mark.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 29, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse

When it comes to the Skins offseason, it just smacks of lack of leadership and lack of vision. The hiring of Zorn and the draft are exhibits one and two. Both have a rudderless quality to them.

I can't tell if the Skins are rebuilding or trying to make a run.

I'll adopt the phrase "Spaghetti Mgmt" (thanks Kost) for these guys. Throw it at the wall and see if it sticks.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 30, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

So, aren't blogs supposed to be like forums for interaction between posters and the people who comment? It's cool that we respond to each other, but where is JLC? I think he should address the fact that a lot of people commenting here disagree with his draft assessment. Also, every media assessment I can find gives the 'skins positive reviews, from various individual blogs to ESPN, PFW, Fox Sports, etc.

What's the deal, JLC? It's fine to disagree with most other people about the 'skins draft, but shouldn't you be around here to explain your differences of opinion on "your" blog? Can you offer any opinions as to why every other major sport media outlet gives the 'skins positive reviews for this draft?

Or are you too busy getting ready for the next axe grinding session? Spinning up some new hate for the FO? Planning a new derogatory name contest? Tell us, what is the master of the "Redskins Vendetta" blog have in store next?

Posted by: O JLC, Where art Thou? | April 30, 2008 12:11 AM | Report abuse

Nate,

For me Blache (Blance, yes from golden girls, but I remember her as Maude!) will be fine, and I think our defense will also be fine.

Many peeps questions Zorn's readiness, but I think, as I have posted several times, that the joker in this is Chris Meidt, who was a head coach. Granted in college, and small time at than, but he does have some HC ability and from what I have read is just the type of person for todays offensive systems. As I have also stated several time, I don't have a huge, or ever small FB knowledge, but I think that we will be fine on offense. We have a great group of veterans that will help our younger talent to have a succesful season.

Of course, that puts me in a lot higher position to fall from, but I am an optimistic fan.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 30, 2008 12:20 AM | Report abuse

Left out barring injuries. Last year that hampered our start, as well as the conservative play calling on offense, but if we can somehow manage to stay healthy, then we will be a pretty solid team.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 30, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 30, 2008 12:07 AM

I will give you the part about the HC search, but unless you were in the "war room" I would argue with you on the draft. To me, it was a pretty solid draft, and not knowing what the plan was, I will give the FO the benefit of the doubt on this.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 30, 2008 12:29 AM | Report abuse

If I look at this draft objectively, dispassionately, rationally -- I can understand the choices and say "atta boy" nice job Vinny, you did the best you could given the circumstances.

When I look at this draft as I always do, as a long time Skins fan, it makes me shiver.

Posted by: Stumped | April 30, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Well, optimism is good; worrying is natural.
I guess if I had one complaint about Hamster Nation, it's that this is just a silly game. What's with the anger?

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 30, 2008 12:40 AM | Report abuse

"There's no anger in Football!"

Posted by: not Tom Hanks | April 30, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

9-7 Last year!!! What should our record have been???
NYG 24 Was 17
( 17-0 halftime lead, and 1st and Goal at the one and 4 straight stops)
G.Bay 17 Was 14
(moss fumble returned for TD. 4 fumbles 2 lost. Pack had 4 fumbles, and Zero lost)
I'll skip NE game
Iggles 33 Was 25
(The Redskins repeatedly hurt themselves with untimely infractions. They finished with 11 penalties for 74 yards, and four times the Eagles were given first downs due to Wash penalties. Westbrook 57 yd screen pass for TD)
Dallas 28 Wash 23
( #21 was injured. TO 4 TD catches. J Soups throws game ending pick in Cowboys endzone )
TBucs 19 Wash 13
Redskins quarterback Jason Campbell ended a second straight drive in the final five minutes with an interception deep in Tampa Bay territory. It was the second consecutive week that Campbell threw a costly pick after leading his team into position for a potential winning score. Josh Bidwell. It is rare that a punter is a major difference-maker in the game, but Bidwell was just that, booming several long punts (including a key 61-yarder in the second half) to get his team out of field-position trouble. He also pinned Washington inside the 20 three times.
STILL THINK DRAFTING A PUNTER IN 6th RD WAS A BAD MOVE!!!!!!!!!
BUFF 17 Was 16
BOTCHED TIME OUT!!

Green Bay, Tampa and Buff are 3 games we should not have lost. Tampa game we had over 400 yds of offense and Tampa had under 200 in the win!! Big Receivers in the RedZone anybody???

Posted by: CLEGG | April 30, 2008 12:43 AM | Report abuse

If I had to comment on some of the anger regarding this post, and many other post I have read, it would be that Jasno's views have to grow on you. As a kool-aid drinking Skins fan, it is hard to swallow some of the stuff Jasno has to sell. Unlike many who have started this journey with him, it is difficult to read a blog from a Washington paper and read the style that Jasno uses it raises the hackles, if you will.

Having been here a while, I have learned to take his post with a grain of salt, hang/post with other Skins fans with opinions that don't always agree with me, and enjoy the wit and jabba that makes this place better than any other blogs I have tried out.

But, since I don't need to comment, I won't.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 30, 2008 12:51 AM | Report abuse

"O JLC Where Art Thou", I'm not sure you expected any response, or whether you give a damn about hearing from a member of the hoi polloi such as myself, but about a year ago there began a more or less constant stream of bitter, ugly criticism of Jason La Canfora down here in the comments.

Not that all the criticism was unfounded -- it's hard to argue against those who have noted that Jason does seem to have "an axe to grind" or a grudge against the front office or just a tendency to stress the negative, beyond what seems warranted or fair or reasonable or whatever. I see it, we all see it. Okay.

But the frequency and tone of the criticism of Jason which was being voiced up here rose to a relentless fever pitch, really nasty stuff all out of proportion (in my opinion) to what was merited, and eventually Jason just stopped participating in the conversation, stopped posting any comments aside from the blog posts themselves.

It's our loss... the give and take in the comments was originally what made this such a special place, it made for great reading, spiced up by the occasionally heated debates which sometimes involved Jason himself. And for maybe half the blog's existence now, the conversation has been diminished because Jason pulled back.

Sure, sure, I'm a Jason fan (warts and all) and a fan of the blog (warts and all) and a "regular" so my opinion doesn't count. Just trying to provide some of the history, as I see it, to help answer the very good question you posed, however antagonistically you posed it :)

Cheers, anonymous friend.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 12:52 AM | Report abuse

"Bad draft, bad!" cries J,
Huffing, puffing, angry face.
Spinning hate, his way?

Posted by: An Eastern Ode to JLC | April 30, 2008 12:54 AM | Report abuse

there were a bunch of Drunks trying to get the Skins to draft lame a** UMD players.

It worked for the Wizzz.

Good job on the Mock drafts everyone.

Posted by: mul | April 30, 2008 12:54 AM | Report abuse

I always wanted to nail that minx Blanche (rue mclanahan...not maude) what a GMILF!

Posted by: chris larrY | April 30, 2008 12:54 AM | Report abuse

You can slice and dice last year in a lot of different ways. You want to take those victories, you might have to give back the Cards and Jets games.
But in the end, if the offense holds up its end of the bargain and scores more than 20 points every game, we're comfortably in the playoffs. The defense did everything you could ask them to do.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 30, 2008 12:57 AM | Report abuse

Curzon, thanks a lot, dude... you said in like 100 words what it takes me four typically overblown paragraphs to say... enjoy it, take Jason's negativity or whatever with a grain of salt, have fun in the comments section...

also cload, with the reminder that we all need to keep a lid on the anger (or whatever strong emotions seem to be elicited by the Skins in general and the blog in particular) and maybe have a little more fun with this whole being-a-fan thing...

so FUN would be the recurring theme. more fun, more funny, less non-funny histrionics and hating up here.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 12:57 AM | Report abuse

We also could have lost the Arizona game, but hung on. Jets game 5 FG's. More RedZone FG's instead of jump balls to 6'4" receivers/TE's

Posted by: CLEGG | April 30, 2008 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Anyway the way the draft went there was not value at DL or OL - at 21 or the 2nd round.

I am a big fan of 2nd round picks as a rule and getting LL was a great move last year even though we all (almost) were a little mift at first.

Posted by: mul | April 30, 2008 1:01 AM | Report abuse

CLOAD,
Right on. Possibly even the Dolphins game. However, if we could've converted one of those FG's in each game to a TD, that adds 4 pts and puts us around 25 a game. I think we can do that this year. I really do. I'm not sure why I believe in ZORNY, but I do.

Posted by: CLEGG | April 30, 2008 1:03 AM | Report abuse

As far as older teevee ladies from the '80s go, chRIs LaRRy, I'll throw a name out there: Dixie Carter.

Six years younger than your girl Rue-Mac, I know, but definitely in that same category.

Great topic, by the way. Nothing like a good pop culture jag (however sexist... "what's wrong with being sexy?") to get us back untracked*.

-Nate in the PDX


* I used this term ironically because I hate it. "Untracked" means without roads. It does not mean "on track." Yet it is now widely used by dopey sports media people as if it means the opposite of "off track," as in "he needs to get untracked." Boo on this! (Mike Wise, I'm looking at you, dude!)

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse

As Mrs. Curzon can attest, I was ready for Gibbs 2.0 to be over by the end of last season. There are many ways that I could say that games should have gone.

Same for the draft. I know that I would have like to see Merling and J. Nelson drafted with picks 1 & 2. As well as some of the other players I knew that could have made the Skins the team I envisioned.

But, sadly (or realistically) I find that last year was a 9-7 season, the draft over and the players I wanted not here. So, I could now bit ch and moan, blame this dumb as s fronto office or move forward (wearing my burgundy glasses) and hope for a better record next season.

I do feel strongly that we have a very good chance at a 10-6 record and a spot at the playoffs. Our offense, though having to learn a new system- the system will not be the 700 page one from last year, will not be hampered by conservative play calling.

Not only do I feel that way, but am willing to bet Gregs bonus points with anyone who feels differntly.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 30, 2008 1:09 AM | Report abuse

Nate,

Awesome reply, thank you. I can understand the history you describe, and I have seen a little of it. I have been an on again, off again reader/commentor for a few years now, sometimes praising JLC, sometimes criticizing. In general, my original comment was frankly meant to goad JLC into accounting for why he is the only sports reporter I can find who disses the 'skins draft.

When JLC is in control of his bad feelings for the FO, I think he has good insight int the 'skins. But lately he is sounding more and more like someone who is basing his reporting of the 'skins on spite for rather than neutral, "objective" coverage. That has never been more obvious than now, in my opinion, with this draft. It seems like he wants Cerrato to fail in order to prove his grand theory of FO suckiness. But wait - oh no! - the FO (now clearly led by Cerrato, as he often reminds us) by many accounts has done a solid job of drafting this year. Now what? Well, JLC will just ignore that and accent the negative, because after all, his theory is at stake.

I ain't buyin' this stuff anymore. I like it when he criticizes when he can back it up. He can't back up his criticisms of the draft right now, so he should be called on it.

Yes, my methods are antagonistic - but NOT personal in nature. He seems like a nice family guy who would be fun to have a beer with. But his postings, and his motivation as a reporter, are fair game IMO.

Posted by: O JLC Where art Thou | April 30, 2008 1:11 AM | Report abuse

I'd love to see a rollercoaster year kind of like the Schotty year, when it was really different for everyone and we got off to a terrible start but then caught fire and finished strong, and everything seemed to be coalescing, and I felt GREAT about the team at the end of that season.

I mean, I know it's ridiculous, but I actually felt better/more optimistic about that 8-8 team than I have about some of our teams with better records!

Not that I thought Marty was going to hoist the Lombardi, but I did believe he'd begun to instill the identity of a team that would be in the playoffs every year, a tough team that would be awesome to watch, if heartbreaking in January.

And then Marty and Danny had a spat and Marty was gone and Spurrier came in. Awesome...

So to recap: a slow start would be expected and okay, but must be accompanied by signs of progress through the season and a strong finish, giving us Hope for next season.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 1:12 AM | Report abuse

f slow starts...

Posted by: chris larrY | April 30, 2008 1:16 AM | Report abuse

u know who i was mad hot for??? Erin Grey of Buck Rogers/Silver Spoon fame..

wow..just wow...Smokin body, mysterious eyes, smart & sassy

Posted by: chris larrY | April 30, 2008 1:20 AM | Report abuse

Not to keep talking FB here on this blog, but...this is a good take on why the FO may have drafted the way we did instead of looking for the stud DE...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/20482-Naysayers-Focus-on-Process-Not-Washington-Redskins-Results

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 30, 2008 1:23 AM | Report abuse

that bleacher reports said nothing....3/4 of the posts on this blog were more insightful....

Posted by: chris larrY | April 30, 2008 1:30 AM | Report abuse

That's right cl, but the truth is that with an offense in either of our two playoff years, we could have made a lot more noise. This is what I heard in that report, it is on offense that we lost, not defense.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 30, 2008 1:34 AM | Report abuse

Oh, man, Erin Grey in the white flight suit!

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 30, 2008 1:35 AM | Report abuse

I meant slow start/strong finish/optimism as opposed to strong start/collapse/pessimism/Cowher watch... acknowledging those are only two of many possible scenarios for how the year might play out...

Obviously it would be preferable to have strong start/strong finish/hoisting o'the Lombardi, but then we'd be complaining about how difficult and unlikely it is to repeat as SB champs, and NOBODY wants to be having that conversation!

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 1:38 AM | Report abuse

O JLC, the reason I took the bait and responded to your original comment was I sensed the real interest, the real and legit question in there. Not a personal beef at all, a real question about how and why he's currently engaging with this blog as an extension of his beat reporting.

Have you ever sent Jason an email and asked him any of this? I'm among many people who have sent him email, and he almost always responds. That might be the best way to engage him in a dialog these days.

Also, if you're in the DC area and you want to come out and have a beer or other beverage with a bunch of us "blog peeps" on June 7, there's an open invitation. That would be a fun time to discuss. Shoot me an email at nateinthepdx at gmail dot com for details if you're interested.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 1:44 AM | Report abuse

WKRP in Cincy was easily top five sitcom of all time...some people lusted after Jenifer Marlow, and rightly so, but I was/am a Bailey Quarters man myself!

Posted by: chris larrY | April 30, 2008 1:53 AM | Report abuse

Sorry cL, but I have to go with Dawn Wells. If only I could be stranded on an island w/her.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 30, 2008 2:03 AM | Report abuse

hittin' on all cylinders, cL -- when she took off those funky glasses, the transformation was magical...

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 30, 2008 2:04 AM | Report abuse

Well, yeah, definitely Mary Anne, but she's a 60+ year-old pot smoker in Idaho, now...

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 30, 2008 2:06 AM | Report abuse

I agree with JLC. Every single pick was a disaster and JLC would have selected better players in each round. In fact, if JLC was the GM, we would make the Super Bowl in 1 year. Zorn is awful but its all Vinny's fault for hiring him late. All the draft experts are wrong, terrible draft for the Skins. If only they would listen to JLC!!!

Posted by: the Sky is Falling in LA | April 30, 2008 2:17 AM | Report abuse

Curzon,

Although Gibbs conservative play calling was mind-numbingly frustrating it wasn't without reason: young qb, then injured receivers, patched-up offensive line, etc. With Collins the offense opened up but the o-line had gotten the needed experience and the receivers got healthy.

The fact is that with Gibbs, the teams were always prepared and were competitive in all but two games in four years - both seasons the 'skins rebounded and made the playoffs.

I'm also excited about the potential for more points but I'm not so sure we won't see more empty seats in the 4th quarter at FED EX.

Posted by: bangkokben | April 30, 2008 2:44 AM | Report abuse

ben,

Empty seats in the forth quarter can be a good thing. People clear out quickly when the Redskins are winning 31-10 after three.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 5:50 AM | Report abuse

True. Not sure how possible that is but the chances of picking up three pass catchers in first three picks were also slim.

Posted by: bangkokben | April 30, 2008 6:15 AM | Report abuse

I mean, I know it's ridiculous, but I actually felt better/more optimistic about that 8-8 team than I have about some of our teams with better records!

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: | April 30, 2008 1:12 AM

Wow, Nate. Call me crazy, but I actually agree with that! I would actually welcome Marty back with open arms right now!

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 30, 2008 6:19 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

No thanks on Marty,

I think we have run Jasno off, can we get a new F-ing post already.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 30, 2008 6:34 AM | Report abuse

Re: Is this thing on;

(1) Skins Made the playoffs in 2005 with an improbable run
(2) They stunk it up the following year as they tried to learn the Saunders offense, had no pass rush and injuries at corner allowed opposing teams to drive the deep ball at will.
(3) The fact that the Skins made the playoffs last year has little bearing on their ability to reach this year.
(4) The entire system and team philosophy is different this year. West Coast Offense. Young QB is in his third offense.
(5) Jason Campbell and all the offensive players are learning a new system (see the the 2006 year with Saunders offense being installed)
(6) You are missing, at the start of camp, three first round defensive starters, Rogers, McIntosh, Taylor. No moves to backfill until 4th round, this will lead to certain drop-off as first round defensive starters are not easily replaced at Linebacker, Saftey and Corner. Hoping Blache is the same motivator and decision maker as Greg Williams was, maybe.... but probably not.
(7) You again "hope" expensive veterans like Jansen, R. Thomas, Griffen, Daniels, all magically stay healthy when they have not in previous years, and are now playing with mulitple joint system repairs.

There is little to no reason to expect the 8th in the league defensive ranking to continue.

There is little to no reason to expect the offensive side to gel and perform or to get anywhere near a play-off record.

Gaping holes at LB, Saftey, Corner, D-line, DE, and offensive line. New Head Coach, pursued as an offensive coach (was a QB postion coach) now trying to run an entire franchise.

Conventional wisdom says this year will be a major CF.

Posted by: Step up to the Mike | April 30, 2008 6:43 AM | Report abuse

Jasno was covering the draft, not that many of us weren't, but I'm sure he had a day or two off and will start speculating rather snidely on the upcoming mini-camp.

Posted by: bangkokben | April 30, 2008 6:44 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

I'll take Marty over Zorn everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Marty may have an awful playoff record, but he gets you there. I don't know about you, but a 14-2 season followed by a one-and-done in the playoffs would be welcome, considering it's better than anything done in D.C. the last 15 years.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 30, 2008 6:45 AM | Report abuse

Who is going to fill in for Randall Godfrey? I thought that dude played quite a bit last year and then he left this year?

Basically with Rocky Mac out and Godfrey gone, what does the linebacker depth chart look like? Is Blades going to start on the outside?

Posted by: Mr. Q | April 30, 2008 6:51 AM | Report abuse

Step up.

Gaping holes. That's not true. It's not anywhere close. Everythingelse you said was accurate but gaping holes. Doughty is now the starter. Smoot is the starter. If Mac is not ready there is a gaping hole. Singular.

Posted by: bangkokben | April 30, 2008 6:56 AM | Report abuse

Is there reason to expect Zorn (as QB coach) really knew the inner workings of the WCO to the degree Mike Holgren did?

Are we hoping Zorn is a master offensive mind when he is actually only at apprentice level?

Are we hoping a 6th round saftey makes the roster as an immediate back-up to Doughty+Landry?

Posted by: Z-man | April 30, 2008 7:02 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

I'll take Marty over Zorn everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Marty may have an awful playoff record, but he gets you there. I don't know about you, but a 14-2 season followed by a one-and-done in the playoffs would be welcome, considering it's better than anything done in D.C. the last 15 years.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 30, 2008 6:45 AM

brownwood,

And considering that it was much better than what Marty did when he was here. The stubborn old fool had his chances in many cities, and he was fired in all of them. Nuff said on Marty.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 7:02 AM | Report abuse

Just a thought...here's an excerpt from today's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

Instead of strictly trying to plug needs, the Steelers took the course -- the correct one, most in the organization believe -- that they would draft the players they had rated highest on their board when it was their turn.

That philosophy yielded such gems as tailback Rashard Mendenhall of Illinois in the first round and Texas wide receiver Limas Sweed on the second, two players they had rated much higher than the 23rd and 53rd picks. They also filled needs by drafting them and others, such as outside linebacker Bruce Davis in the third round.

But of their seven selections, they drafted only one lineman, an offensive tackle in the fourth round, 6-foot-4, 304-pound Tony Hills of Texas, and no defensive lineman.

As Kevin Colbert, the director of football operations, said: "You just can't get everybody. It is impossible in any one year to address the entire team. There's going to be positions you don't draft."

------------

Sound familiar? I've been especially hard on this FO for their 2nd round picks (after the money Devin Thomas pick, at least). But I realized this: I think the reason that some of us are tough on this FO and the whole "we've changed our ways" routine is because they haven't earned the benefit of the doubt. Not that we'd hear it, but I doubt anyone is killing the Steelers for picking a RB in Round 1 instead of a lineman (their biggest need). The Colts aren't getting railed for picking a center high in the draft despite having a Pro-Bowler at center. And right now the Pats are still pretty much bulletproof when it comes to criticism since all they do is win (legally or not).

Here's my point: those teams have one or more Super Bowls in the last few years and have a reputation for drafting well. The Skins don't. They need to have more drafts like this and show the ability to draft well on a consistent basis. In addition, they have to show progress in the standings.

That said, I'm willing to soft my stance a bit. I rated this draft as no more than average before, but this may be even better than that if the guys they took pan out. Vinny and Company still have to EARN the benefit of the doubt with me, but if Zorn is up to the challenge of coaching 'em up, this team may not be too bad in the coming years.

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 30, 2008 7:10 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

If Marty had 5 years here like he did in San Diego, he might have been 14-2. With Stephen Davis in his prime and LaVar playing the best ball of his career, they might have made some noise in the postseason too. But we'll never know...

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 30, 2008 7:33 AM | Report abuse

Step Up

We have gaping holes all over the Defense according to you, are Defense must have been ranked last in the league last year with all those holes. Wait we were ranked 8th, and the only really bad game they played was against NE. I remeber lots of teams getting waxed by NE. I'll bet you think we could of filled all these holes by reaching for players were we picked. I think the team will be pretty good this year, learning a new offense is not that tough except for when the playbook is 700 pages. Stop with the GG stuff Blache is just as good of a cordinator, he was with the Bears as cordinator and there Defense was always good.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 30, 2008 7:34 AM | Report abuse

brownwood,

The argument was that you would take him back now, not if he stayed when he was here before. I agree that they should have kept him before, but I disagree that they should bring him back now. I am sick of all these recycled 65-70 year old coaches. I am glad we went with a guy who will want to prove himself, instead of a coach who is just looking for one more contract.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 30, 2008 7:44 AM | Report abuse

If Marty had 5 years here like he did in San Diego, he might have been 14-2. With Stephen Davis in his prime and LaVar playing the best ball of his career, they might have made some noise in the postseason too. But we'll never know...

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 30, 2008 7:33 AM

That's a good one! In San Diego, Marty was outcoached by Norv Turner. So, let's bring Norv back.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 7:52 AM | Report abuse

I agree. I think Marty got a raw deal in the one and done scenario particularly when it seemed like that team was on the upswing. But to say now he'd be welcomed back would be a big mistake for the organization. A young infusion of talent and energy as head coach seems like the correct plan. We now just have to see if it'll actually pay off.

Posted by: Nico | April 30, 2008 7:52 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4,

I hear you. I hate retreads too, but without rehashing the whole subject, I wish they would have given Russ Grimm an honest chance. If you're not going to go young with your unknown/unproven coach, at least get someone with ties to the organization and will further the indentity that got the team 3 Lombardis. But hey, Zorn's the guy so we'll deal with it...

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 30, 2008 7:54 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

I would have had no problem with Grimm, and before we get this coach discussion going again lets leave it at that.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 30, 2008 7:58 AM | Report abuse

That's a good one! In San Diego, Marty was outcoached by Norv Turner. So, let's bring Norv back.

Posted by: | April 30, 2008 7:52 AM

ARRRGGHHHH! Don't even JOKE about that.

Posted by: etrod | April 30, 2008 8:28 AM | Report abuse

I'm still of the mind that this is a decent draft because the guys selected have a very good shot at making the team.

In 2002 the 'skins had ten picks only Ladell Betts and Rock Cartwright are still with the team and unless Robert Royal is starting for the Bills it produced no starters.

This draft looks much better than that piece of dung.

Posted by: bangkokben | April 30, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

I don't know how things work in Thailand, but up here...

We value pieces of dung.

Posted by: Dorf | April 30, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse

2nd rounders since 1999

1999 Jon Jansen
2001 Fred Smoot
2002 Ladell Betts
2003 Taylor Jacobs
2006 Rocky MacIntosh

2008 Devin Thomas
2008 Fred Davis
2008 Malcom Kelly

Posted by: bangkokben | April 30, 2008 8:46 AM | Report abuse

This sucks, I win bonus points yesterday, only to come in this morning and find that Curz, has gambled them away!! I never knew how many points I actually had, nor did I get a chance to redeem them.

Posted by: Greg | April 30, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

You know what we need?

MORE COWBELL

Posted by: MrCoffee&GroundsForDivorce | April 30, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

D

E

A

D

in

H

E

R

E

Posted by: Prepare the eulogy | April 30, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Paging Nurse Boren

Paging Nurse Boren

A new thread is needed on 4/30.

Posted by: Dorf | April 30, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Q: How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Yarn.

Posted by: etrod | April 30, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Why hasn't anything been said about the fact that the 'skins play 5 pre-season games this year. Shoot I hate when it's 4. Every year someone drops during the pre-season. I know I was holding my beath when Soup took the hit on the knee. And when did Jensen go down. Both times season end-ing injuries in the pre-season. Portis not right for the whole regular season. because he made a tackle in the pre-season. I'll be watching with my a$$ puckered through all 5 of these games.

Posted by: 5-11 | April 30, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

kmdp4 and others: my understanding is that Jasno has had a death in his immediate family and won't be posting anytime soon. So we'll just have to keep scrolling down unless JR or CB or that other dude pops on.

I think we have run Jasno off, can we get a new F-ing post already.
Posted by: kmdp4 | April 30, 2008 6:34 AM

Posted by: zornskins | April 30, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Do you think Jasno was scooped on the death in his family by other websites?

Can't believe I wrote that...horrible.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 30, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

At least you admitted it.

That was pretty bad. Nice anon post.

Coward.

Posted by: Dorf | April 30, 2008