Draft Review

Worst

jlc
you still suck

more of the same from this gas bag
blah blah blah
you sound like a petulant child
allways looking to put a negative spin on EVERYTHING the skins do

you should just write about the ravens, redsux and all the crappy music you listen to

"Anyone who tries to tell you they can judge a draft immediately is full on bunk. It'll be a couple of years - or at least one - before we can really start to see who hits home runs and who struck out." JLC listen to your own words regarding the draft, the coach and the team. Otherwise, you're full of "bunk."

Okay, J Low. I'll take the opposite tack. You can't convince me that in the next few years, none of the receivers in this draft was worth a first round pick.

jlc, you are unblievable

If you guys don't like Jason, stay the hell off the blog. He busts his ass getting information (not always 100% correct - but it never is in his line of work) and is very diligent about posting updates. Skins fans are very lucky to have him. Boo on all you naysayers - go elsewhere.

Kiper rated the skins draft a B+

Kiper graded the 'Skins draft a B+, which was the 2nd highest grade of all teams (behind Chiefs, tied with Browns and Cowgirls).

no dicks please,

wipe the jlc brown stuff off your face

Skins might have a top 5 offense this year thus making the defense better

I don't dislike JLC. I just disagree with his assessment. Why draft a defensive lineman/offensive lineman if they aren't any better than what you already have? There is little doubt that they got two receivers and a punter who are better than what they already have. Which two linemen could they have gotten who are demonstrably better than or could replace two of their linemen in the next couple years?

Maybe the Skins don't go with 4 wides, 2 tight end sets, but when is the last time Moss and ARE were both healthy for the entire season in the same year? Those guys are always banged up, so I don't blame the Skins at all for taking receivers/tight end with their second round picks. Even if they don't play much this year, we should be set at those two positions for the next few years. Next year, we can address more attention to the DL and OL.

Just some round up of reviews by other sources.

Kiper - Skins B+
USA Today - Skins B
SI - after the Kelley pick "The Redskins continue their terrific draft by picking up another prospect that carried a first round grade for most of the season."

I've been backing JLC a lot, but the doom and gloom is getting old.

Jlc you are indeed allowed to lookt at the glass half empty. I will look at it half full. All during the draft, the analyst rave about how the best teams stick with THEIR board, and therefore at times draft for the future. It has become popular to mention that it takes a WR about 3 years to become the player they are projected to be. If that is the case, 3 years from now both Moss and ARE will be over 30. Cooley will be near 30 and commanding a larger part of the cap. Picking these pass catchers allow the skins to have 3 young players to grow and develop with Campbell. 3 years from now when this draft can be fully appreciated, I hope the faith the skins have placed on their scouting proves correct and Thomas, Davis, Kelly will be the pass catching core of Zorns W2W offense.

Folks, there is no rational way one can be thrilled with what the Skins did. If they had drafted three d-lineman or o-lineman, that same excess would be different because of the number of positions at those spots.

Look at the best case scenario: Cooley stays at a pro Bowl level for the next 3+ years. Moss and Randle El remain effective starters. That would mean that the three rookie receivers could do no more than be role players.

One receiver, ok. Two, hmmm. but three??? JLC is right, the owner is obsessed with WR's (he also coveted Donte Stallworth in the draft) and finally got what he wanted.

Kiper gave the Redskins a B+.

Mel Kiper, who has dedicated his life to knowing the draft, and ALL things draft related, and is considered the FORE-MOST expert on things of a draft nature.

Had the Redskins taken Thomas at 21, people would have said they reached. Had they taken Merling at 21, people would have said how can they take a guy who didn't work out??

They were in a lose-lose situation with some people, which is why its nice to have the opinion of Kiper, as an outside source.

Jasno, I love you like a fat kid loves cake but, dude, take it easy. Most of the draft gurus are giving the skins a positive grade and I tend to agree. I'd like to have seen some more OL but keep in mind that while our starters are aging, we have Heyer, Alexander and now Rinehart as backups. that's 3 youngsters already in the mix.

With Santana's constant hamstring issues and Randle El's so-so productivity, WR depth is a need (At least until Mix ascends to Jerry Rice-like greatness). With Dallas and NY's loaded secondaries, we need to put as many stud receivers on the field as possible.

As you said, time will tell but right now the sky is not falling.

It's amazing to see the article start off with a dislcaimer about how you can't predict drafts, and then JC proceeds to rip apart what amounts to a very solid draft by the Skins. So many statements in this post that are hypocritical or just plain wrong (in my opinion of course!).

1) Joe Gibbs held a pre-draft minicamp even though we had a HOF game in 2004...this statement was made as if it was a golden move. We finished 5-11 that year, right? Clearly it didn't help.

2) Getting WRs is horrible this early in the draft, simply because "no one else did it?" How many times have you blasted the Skins for getting WR free agents and wasting money? Now they go out and draft 2 of the top 3 WRs and somehow, it's a bad move? Moss is always injured, Randel El is sporadic at best (and sucks at punt returns)...WR was our most pressing need!! Our offense, which requires multiple weapons, now has WR weapons other than the oft-double teamed (and injured) Moss, and Randel El.

3) Why the obsession with defensive line? WR is much more in need. Carter is a beast and under 30. We have youth starting and contributing. Yeah, it'd be nice to have another beast DE, but there wasn't one available...certainly not at pick 51.

4) Obviously, offensive line depth is great, but we had a solid line last year that was scotch-taped together. Yeah, they're not all 25, but it's not as pressing a need to use a 2nd round pick on someone who will sit the bench for 2-3 years. BTW, the Northern Iowa lineman we got was ranked as the best lineman to come out of D-II in 15 years, based on some blocking % ranking system. So, we got a beast with a low pick.

5) The Colts have won 1 SB with the best skilled/student QB of all time in his 8 year career. Somehow that makes their front office God? Draft what you need, not what the Colts' front office thinks is good. BTW, the Colts have had several years of 2 pass-catching TEs, along with the Patriots. So, maybe Fred Davis isn't that bad a pick.

6) Why the b!tching about the playbook?Everyone raved about Saunders' 700 page playbook, which proved entirely ineffective. Who cares if the playbook is scaled down? It has nothing to do with Zorn's lack of credibility as a coach...it has to do with the fact that we're in a new offense and Zorn needs to see the basics of what this team can do. You don't throw the Bible at a new priest-to-be and say, "Memorize this by July and you're in." Start with the basics!

7) No, my name is not Dan Snyder, Vinny Cerato or anyone employed/associated with the Skins! Just a diehard fan (who admittidly may have too much Kool-Aid in his blood) who is happy with our draft and is looking forward to an offense that uses our skill players by giving them the ball and doesn't try to outsmart opponents by picking imaginary spots on the field where no defender will be.

At least we don't have the play the NFC East on the road in the first month of the season. Oh, wait...

Both Bozwell and Jason appear to make a stong case that some linemen (both offensive and defensive)picked higher than they were eventually would have been useful. Also, the Redskins dodged a Danny bullet by failing to obtain Johnson.

REPOST

I'm looking forward to the Skins/Iggles game this year. You'll line up 8 WRs, we'll line up 6 undersized DEs, and we'll see how things go. Maybe the teams are planning some sort of player swap; we could use a WR or two and maybe one of our tweeners could end up as a stopgap OL for you.

As an outsider, I'm ambivalent about the Skins 2008 draft.

Good

I would have picked Limas Sweed over Malcolm Kelley, but if both picks turn out to be successful, not only would these 2 WRs fill an immediate need, they could also be the transition from Santana Moss/ARE to the next generation of Skins WR. OL pickup was also good because it definitely fills a need and if one (or more) of the 3 DBs sticks with the team, that's a good thing as well

Indifferent

The punter pickup may prove to be a really good choice, but I would have gone for another OL or tried to deal this pick and the Brennan pick for a higher selection in hopes Joe Bugel could coach up a prospect.

Odd/Bad

I don't understand the Fred Davis pick. Skins just paid Chris Cooley a ton of $s, Todd Yoder (and Glen Koslowski) seem to be capable backups, and Mike Sellers (remember him?) could even fill in a bit here. Even if Fred Davis turns out to be a great player, short of a trade, I don't see how this significantly helps the Skins

Guess we'll see how things play out in 2008/2009

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:40 AM

The West Coast Offense requires 2 TE sets, and the 'Skins made an upgrade from Yoder.

We can assume that only 1 of the 2 WRs will pan out to be a starter. The other is trade bait.

They got a stud punter, a versatile O-lineman, a nickel back, two hard-hitting safeties who will play special teams, and a competent 3rd-string QB.

Compare that to previous drafts. Instead of comparing this draft to previous drafts, JLC complains how the draft could have been better.

i was very surprised at the receiver picks in the second round, but considering the health we've had at the receiver position for the past couple years, i'm fine with them picking up 2 guys. you might as well get good depth at one position if you can. lord knows, we haven't had much for any other ones.. ;p

Get'm jlc. Getting rid of the #1 for extra #2's... I agree to give My Cousin Vinny his due for that one. But to make your first three picks pass catchers? c'mon now...I couldn't agree more with jlc.

Not enough footballs for:
Moss
Randle El
Cooley
Portis
Betts
White
Davis and Kelly

Here's what I wanna know,,, if Duane Brown was available, would they have taken him over Davis... or even White?

Redskins | K. Mitchell signs with team
Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:59:35 -0700

Josh Buchanan, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports the Washington Redskins have signed undrafted rookie free-agent S Kevin T. Mitchell (University of Illinois). Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

This guy is only saying that we didn't address major needs we have to fill, and he's right. regardless of how kiper rates our draft, we still didn't address what we needed to. Who cares if mel kiper rates your draft a B+ if we still have no d-lineman to contend in our ever improving division? Right now we have 6 WR's making big money and 2 tight tends, unless cooley moves to more of a FB roll. the move to trade down was brilliant, the picks we made considering our roster were not. the 6'7 DE from miami was available and we completely whiffed.

More god awful stuff from Jasno.

The Post's Skins coverage is a joke.

For the record, I'm happy with the picks that were made for the OL. The cat from Northern Iowa, and this Kerry Brown, from Appalachian State.

I think Rinehart can slide in at G, right now.

For the last few years all you've heard is not enough weapons, to easy to shut down, etc. etc. Now they FINALLY get more weapons and still there is blind bashing. Utterly pathetic that a reporter and a paper can't act like grown ups. F--king joke!!

The bottom line is this: in the draft, do you go for value or need?

Why do you reach down and select a DE projected in the 3rd round when you can get a first-round quality TE?

The draft is not the only way to fill needs.

Even if Fred Davis turns out to be a great player, short of a trade, I don't see how this significantly helps the Skins

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:40 AM

Doesn't it allow Jim Zorn to draw up plays that he never could have without two legitimate tight ends? Doesn't it create some Red Zone nightmares for a defensive coach?

This guy is always whining about something. I'm sorry and what team did Jason work for? Go cover the ravens

I think no matter what gets posted here, there will be a lot of complaining.

Pathetic.

We are FANS, and like it or not, we don't know as much as we think we know.

Personally, I'm pretty darn happy with this draft.

All you whiners need to get a life.

Receivers are reknowed for not reaching their full potential until their third year of pro ball. What's Santana's and ARE's age and contract looking like in three years? If you ask me, it looks like their phasing out the dwarfs for more west coast offense-friendly players. Could the front office be taking a page out of Stan Kasten's "plan"?

New coach, new system. When has that ever worked for us in the first year? I'm sensing a couple of rebuilding years for a team fresh out of the playoffs.

Adam, lets say for example a team like the Patriots drafted a TE with first round pick in 2 out of 3 years, even using a first and a third to move up to select the particular TE that they were targeting, would that get questioned?

If Cooley goes down, then all the Redskins would have had would be Yoder, and Koz. Which would essentially eliminate using the tight end in this offense.

Yahoo sports:

Washington Redskins
Picks: WR Devin Thomas, TE Fred Davis, WR Malcolm Kelly, OL Chad Rinehart, DB Justin Tryon, P Durant Brooks, DB Kareem Moore, QB Colt Brennan, DL Rob Jackson, DB Chris Horton
Positives: Thomas, Davis, Kelly, Brooks
Negative: Defensive end not addressed until the seventh round.
Bottom line:A. Ten overall picks with lots of potential from top to bottom. The two wideouts slipped a little and could all end up providing great value. Thomas and Kelly could develop into quality big targets, and an AFC scout told Yahoo! Sports in February that Davis was the best overall talent at tight end in this draft. The punter need was addressed with the best one the college game had to offer in Brooks. Brennan is an intriguing pick late in the sixth round. A lot of potential starters in this draft.

I agree with the concerns along the lines but the skins offense has not looked explosive in a long long time and I love moss but he hasnt had a good season since 05; so despite the hate i like what they did in the draft. They needed depth at WR there and they got it. Hate or like time will tell...

The only way to draft successfully is to draft good players.

I think Baltimore raised more eyebrows than the Skins for taking a 1-AA QB who operated in a modified-spread offense with the expectation that he'll be the starter as soon as this year.

This year's draft was very weak on immediate starters. The Skins were not going to find a 2008 starter at #21 or anywhere else. So they smartly drafted the best players on their board throughout the draft.

And taking two WRs in the second round was genius -- the trade out of 21 (where they may have taken a WR anyhow) allowed them to get a two-fer at a position notorious for being difficult to scout. Any draft move that increases the team's chances of finding a quality player is a win in my book.

They also added a big, fast TE that can take pressure off Cooley in the red-zone (how soon we forget that our only effective red-zone play last year was Cooley on an 8-yard option hitch); depth to the OL with a corn-fed ultra-versatile man-imal; added speed to the secondary with a DB who will compete for the nickle-back and be Smooty's man-crush; added much needed competition to the punter position ("Frosty - shanking punts since 2006"); and added competition for the special teams spots (buh-buy James Thrash). All in all, a very good job.

So they weren't able to address the DL. Nobody expected them to address every single position of need. But they still have options there -- undrafted FA, roster cuts, trade.

JLC -- stop masking the hating as "giving you the facts."

This blog is a great example of why JLC's coverage of the Skins is such a laughingstock. I'm glad there are some Debbie Downer's out there who get off on it, but the rest of us Redskins fans would be happier if JLC came out of the closet and simply began covering the Ravens. What a joke.

As a somewhat outsider I would say that the draft was pretty good for Redskins, perhaps dramatically more so in contrast to past years (see this depressing view from last year for example).

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=2854030

I think that the questions Jasno raises are real ones, but perhaps you guys are reacting more to his somewhat embittered tone than the facts at hand. I would have said 1 receiver was plenty, and I don't think a 2nd receiver that doesn't crack the starting line up is very compelling 'trade bait' as SC puts it. The lines are getting weaker and older in an era where pass rush appears to be getting more important (having or stopping), but as some have said it may not be at the panic stage there quite yet and there are other avenues to find players.

I think it is good that the Redskins have taken a somewhat contrarian approach. Time will tell of course.

So my take would be pretty good overall, a somewhat odd portfolio of players, but if they have scouted well they will at least add some depth in a couple key places and get 2 starters, or maybe 3 with punter.

I agree with JLC on some things. Some things I dont. I think for one thing the stud of the draft might be Chad Rinehart. and much needed. As for the wide recievers and TE. Thomas is a good pick, Kelly good pick, Davis concerns me. And not because hes not good , oh hes good , maybe great, but not needed by this team. A team does not need 2 good or great TE. That means a lot of money spent at TE. When we need a lot of money spent at both lines. Colt Brennen thats a...ah..aa.aa I dont know, WOW! He cant even play in mini camp, hes injured. Are they gonna pay before they see him hit the field? Good luck with this class of picks . I think as far as players I rate this draft B+, as far as need D+.

Even if Fred Davis turns out to be a great player, short of a trade, I don't see how this significantly helps the Skins

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:40 AM

Doesn't it allow Jim Zorn to draw up plays that he never could have without two legitimate tight ends? Doesn't it create some Red Zone nightmares for a defensive coach?

Posted by: Repost response to a Repost | April 28, 2008 9:13 AM

Except that Todd Yoder is a legit NFL TE. Fred Davis may turn out to be better (he also might not, by the way), but finding/grooming a replacement for Phillip Daniels (who everyone acknowledges is on his last legs) or getting another OL to feed into an aging OL corps make more sense to me.

Adam

Being deep at WR could be good not just because you have depth. Zorn could shuffle guys in and out to keep guys fresh and make the game a real track meet. The league has already figured out that using two running backs is a good idea, why not multiple WRs and TEs?

JLC,

You have got to stop this. Go cover another team or sport. You clearly have an agenda against the front office because they have not retained some of your favorite sources on the roster or coaching staff. I understand having coaches and players that talk to you makes your job easier, but that has nothing to do with whether or not that person should stay with this organization. You can not separate the too. You take it personally. It is completely unprofessional. Please stop.

JLC is a hater...it's getting old! go work for the ravens

After all we watched with our own eyes last year, these things we know.

A. The Redskins looked inept offensively in the passing game for a good part of the season. Because either Gibbs/Saunders couldnt figure it out or the players werent getting it done, or a little bit of both. We were so one dimensional, 3rd and 8, its going to Cooley, god help us if it was 3rd 15. Moss had issues catching balls, and Campbell had issues throwing low balls. For whatever reason, Collins came in and was able to resurrect the passing game, until the Seahawk game.

I believe the problem was both the coaching and the smallish receivers. I love Moss and Randle El, but I'd love them more if they were 6'2".

If Campbell is your QB, which he is, and Zorn is your coach, which he is, and the WCO is what you are running,which it is, you better have big receivers and 2 capable TE's to do thy bidding.

The first day of the draft, was a resounding A+. You basically got all the tools necessary for Zorn to succeed. Snyder and Cerrato had to protect their decision on Zorn, how do you do that? Get him his players to make the WCO run. He has them all. There is no reason why we can't have a top 5-10 offense next year.

"Snyder watched the private workouts of players at the top of the board." - the MOST damning sentence in the entire post.

Snyder considers the Redskins his own private fantasy football team and you morons are supporting him and his decisions? My god.

Just look at what parcels did with the dolphins.. mostly all OL, DE's and DT's.. this team needs youth and guys who can pressure on the DL desperately.. they've needed this for years now and keep ignoring it.. they may have picked up some nice players in this draft that will help JC and the offense, which is good... but the players they wanted always got picked right before they came up and forced them to yet drop again and pick for value.. i think they should have stayed put, picked merling (parcel picked him!).. got their receiver with # 2 and OL (whick they did) with pic 3.. it was nice they traded down, but it didn't pan out like they thought it would.. they should go get jason taylor now..

Here's what I wanna know,,, if Duane Brown was available, would they have taken him over Davis... or even White?

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 9:00 AM

Mystery poster...you are an idiot. Everything you said is completely undermined by the fact that we didn't draft anyone named White. We drafted a Thomas. But hey, small details right. You are dumb. Go away.

You know you make it sound like this team is heading for the first overall pick. I am firm believer in taking best availible and not reaching(falcons, jaguars, Lions) for a need. To be honest their are very few if any OL or DL who could have moved any of the starters out of the line up. The skins need depth in the secondary not starters and it looks to me like they got what they needed. Overall I like your articles but I disagree with you on this.

I am a die hard Redskin fan and I think JLC keeps it real. There nothing wrong with what he is saying. Its just hard to be a Redskin fan and know they screw up every year.

Except that Todd Yoder is a legit NFL TE

Adam,

36 catches, 4 touchdowns in 7 seasons, is Legit?? Really?

Yoder is a good blocker, and can catch the occasional pass. Lets not make him out to be something he is not.

Nothing will ever really change until the owner and front office become stable. JLC may be negative butr he's probably right. Let's hope he's wrong.

EVERY other media outlet is giving the Skins a A or B and praising them for the job they did. This short jealous little ---- still is nothing but doom and gloom!! Sad

JLC may be negative butr he's probably right.

Really? Please quantify how he is probably right.

Did they announce the undrafted FA's the signed yet?

I thought this was a pretty helpful and informative post from JLC. I know he tends to play the same note a lot but I thought it was appropriate to ask if there had been some serious grade inflation at WR thanks to the Danny's obsession with it and Vinny's need to polish that apple.

That said, I think the draft was a breath of fresh air for this franchise. I love going for best player available, and I think if this weren't the first time the skins actually had more than 6 picks and the opportunity to do BPA we would be able to appreciate this draft a whole lot more. If you keep to this strategy you'll be fine in the long run.

I do believe football teams should be built from the lines back, but I don't mind the two WR move bc probably only one of them will wind up being any good. I'd love it to be both, but based on history that's not that likely. So by trading down we get 2 for the price of one more or less. As for the TE, I watched a lot of pac 10 games and he stands out in film as a dominant player. His workout stats aren't that impressive but he was a beast in games.

Adam, lets say for example a team like the Patriots drafted a TE with first round pick in 2 out of 3 years, even using a first and a third to move up to select the particular TE that they were targeting, would that get questioned?

If Cooley goes down, then all the Redskins would have had would be Yoder, and Koz. Which would essentially eliminate using the tight end in this offense.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:19 AM

Greg,

Don't follow the Pats very closely, but I'd wonder a bit about that, just as I'm wondering why the hell Phily keeps drafting undersized, pass rushing DEs even after it goes out in the free agent market and signs (wait for it...) an undersized, pass rushing DE to a sizable free agent contract.

While it would be great to have an All Pro backing up an All Pro, salary cap limitations make that a near impossibility. I'd have preferred Calais Campbell, Jeremy Zuttah (utility OL), or maybe even Mike Pollak (C).

Guess we'll see what happens...

Adam

RE: JLC covering the Ravens....um, no.

It's a good thing that JLC is not a 'Skins homer. Journalistic integrity requires that a beat reporter cannot be a fan of the team that he writes about.

B. Outside of WR, I thought the biggest need was at DE and S. Although I wouldve liked to address DE, reaching for Calais and Groves wouldve been a mistake. Calais is lazy and took plenty of plays off, Groves took a step backwards from 2006/07. That said, they still need to address the DE position over the summer. Doughty is marginal at best, he needs to be our back-up not starter. Drafting Tyron will help the secondary and maybe he can surprise us all and start at corner, allowing Springs to move to SS, while the lower rated S we drafted gain more experience. And when Rogers comes back, we will be that much better.

The offensive line was hurt last year, but we have to catch some breaks. Jansen, if nothing else has to be fresh. Thomas should be fine too. The left side is good and Rabach is solid. We drafted a big guy who has some versatility.

whiner,
Jason Taylor is 33 years old. Dolphins said they want a 1st round pick for him. No Way!

JLC is right - I didn't really like this draft. 1 WR in the second round was probably a decent choice, but we really needed a stud defensive lineman of some sort, and that basically got ignored. The Danny and his whipping boy just don't understand the value of the guys in the trenches. Those two are all flash and no substance, and anyone who thinks The Danny knows anything more about pro football than the rest of us amateurs is fooling themselves. He never even played high school football, for goodness sake.

The TE from USC is a good player, but considering we are set at starter, it seems like a reach given how badly the team needs to develop the next crop of starting O and D linemen.

The punter in the sixth round round was a little strange. When can teams not find a decent punter via free agency, and didn't we just resign Derrick Frost?

We now have way too many "pass catchers", and I guess Anthony Mix isn't going to get his chance after all.

Oh, well, maybe The Danny will sell the team. We can dream, can't we?

36 catches, 4 touchdowns in 7 seasons, is Legit?? Really?

Yoder is a good blocker, and can catch the occasional pass. Lets not make him out to be something he is not.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:28 AM

He's a legit, backup NFL TE. That's all I'm saying. Could you do better? Probably. Do you have more pressing needs elsewhere? Most everyone here thinks so.

Adam

If the Skins had taken Calais Campbell or Quentin Groves instead of Fred Davis, I think this whole draft would be viewed differently and most Skins fans would be panning it as the best draft in years. Still, I think this was a good but not great draft for the Skins.

'Skins deserve major kudos for grabbing that punter. Frost averaged 41 yards last year and was 32nd in the league. The new dude averaged 45+ and would have been around 8th in the league.

There are an average of six punts per game, so this is a pickup of 24 yards per game.

Adam, If Cooley went down with an injury, that would basically eliminate the TE from the offence. Not to mention that the WC Offense utilizes 2 tight ends. It doesn't do much good to have a offense needing 2 TE's, and only having one guy who can be an asset.

While it was odd to have Vinny go all Matt Millen on us in the 2nd round with all the WR/TE picks, it was still a sound strategy. Yes we need OL depth, but we're also returning all 5 starters. We have Heyer, the kid we drafted in the 3rd round, plus we always pluck one or two from the undrafted free agent/June 1 cut pile. On defense, I still don't see the dire circumstances that JLC seems to push. We got 20+ sacks from the DE last year, we seem to have decent depth at LB and at safety Doughty seems solid enough to get us thru 16 games.

I'm a JLC fan, love that he keeps us posted (no pun intended) year round and has a pretty good pulse of the team, but his tone has gotten increasingly bitter/negative since the coaching search.

DE C. Wilson is the wild card. He had 4 sacks in the last 2 games last year. Plus 1 in the playoffs.

I'm also having a hard time listening to the "why get two WRs?!?!?!" crowd. The last time I checked the Redskins have been needing WR help since Monk and Clark left, save for a couple of nice seasons from Coles and later Moss. Moss has been an injury risk for most of his career and ARE showed that he's not that effective with Moss out of the lineup. And after Moss and ARE, they're best option (Mix) has like 3 catches in the NFL.

I'm always highly critical of the Redskins picks, but I thought they had an outstanding draft. Even if Davis was overkill, there was not a D-Lineman available there that would not have been a reach.

If you look at the needs coming into the draft:

1) WR Help
2) Pass rusher
3) Offensive Line depth
4) Secondary depth
5) Developmental QB
6) Someone to challenge Frost

they basically hit on each except one.

Be critical when needed. Don't be critical just to be critical. It's getting annoying and is pushing me away from reading.

Jason, while I was not thrilled that our first three picks were all offensive "weapons" and that we did not draft a DE until the bitter end, your negativity never STOPS. Mel Kiper and Ron Jaworski, who actually study players gave the Skins a "Thumbs Up" on this draft. Both picked the Skins as their "winners." So where do you get the crap about "raised eyebrows around the league"?

When can teams not find a decent punter via free agency, and didn't we just resign Derrick Frost?

Posted by: 'Skins Fan | April 28, 2008 9:36 AM

Derrick Frost is the type of punter you can get via free agency. If you want a good one, you need to draft him.

And, yes, we resigned Frost. To a one year contract with no bonus. And, by the way, no one else offered Frost a contract. He's at the bottom of the league.

None of these receivers will be worth a dime if we don't have young offensive linemen to keep Jason Campbell or Colt Brennan upright over the next 3-4 years.

Everyone keeps talking about Defensive end....Why does nobody talk about Chris Wilson? He had 4 sacks last year in a very limited role!

"If the deck is stacked towards receivers, and that's what the owner is most enamored with - those are the players he keeps swinging and missing on in the trade front - well, how do you think the draft going to unfold?"

That's why JLa correctly predicted the Skins picks. Oh wait...

Nothing will change until the Post staff comes to their senses and reasigns JLC to a job he is worthy of like covering dog racing in Tulsa.

It is amazing this dope still has a job. National media and draft experts are all on the side of this draft beeing good to very good and filling needs the skins had.

Oh wait...Danny was mean to Jason once so he needs to lead skins nation into thinking it was a terrible draft. We are tired of his agenda!

JLC,

You seem to be on the wrong side of the analysts with your rather negative assessment on this weekend's draft. The Skins draft has been largely lauded by the experts.

Your comments increasely seem anti-Redskin. Is this what we have to expect from the WashingtonPost? It's like you have a gripe against the organization. It's ironic that the only negative comments on the Redskins draft in the media this morning are coming from their beat reporter.

Most of us that read your column are fans. Which means we want to see the Redskins do well. We are not asking for a cheerleader. But give the team a break now and then. Why don't you report what the analysts are saying? It's largely positive.

For everyone whinning about the picks do you understand that we can not score points on offense, we had like two touchdowns from the WR position last year. I would have loved to get better on the D-Line, but if you can not score points it does not matter how good you D-Line is you will still loose. We have averaged like 16 points a game for the last 4 years so AS can take that 700 page playbook and shove it up his A$$. The defense ranked 8th last season not to shabby, we did not loose games last year because of Defense we lost because we could not score.

It seems to me that, with 11 OL/DL picks in the first 20, the boat had already sailed on getting an immediate starter at OL/DL; there was a run on the bank at those positions... and you know who loses when you get to the bank late.
That's a stark contrast to last year, where only 7 OL/DL picks were made in the entire first round, along with 7 WR/TEs -- that's why there were so many WRs left at the beginning of the second round. And so, 11 of the 20 picks before the skins took Kelly were WR/TE.
I don't know these guys from Adam, and I would've liked to see a DL/OL/CB picked high. But I can see the logic of their picks, and that's about all you can ask for.

So where do you get the crap about "raised eyebrows around the league"?

Posted by: Lisa | April 28, 2008 9:43 AM

Jasno, insider that he is, has a carefully cultivated group of Redskins haters "around the league" so that he can always attribute his hate to someone else.

I gotta say that I'm warming up more and more to this draft. Like JLa, I would have loved at least 4 guys on both sides of the line, but this draft just didn't pan out like that. The run on T's in the first round was ridiculous and I think that a couple of teams really reached for a lineman. I think that this could actually be a draft for the future. As some have pointed out, our WR wasn't exactly striking fear into the hearts of anyone's secondary and a great #2 tight end will be great in the red-zone-a real weakness for us. Hopefully we can pick up some gem undrafted linemen that will be ready to go when our old guys give out in the next year or so.

Brilliant work Jason! I could not have written it better myself.

Can we give Jason Reid a blog as well so those of us who don't want to read negative nancy all the time have something. JLC is the most negative person about all things Redskins. I'd love to hear his analysis of the Ravens - I'm sure JLC thinks Flacco is the next Peyton Manning. Can we send him somewhere to cover girls lacross or something?

JLC - I have defended you a lot, and I think rightly so. You do a good job of reminding us fans of things we would like to forget. I find your theory of a "conspiracy" to rate receivers higher a little specious, but I can follow the dots that you lay out and see where you are coming from.

This is the first draft that we get to lay directly at VinnyDAN's feet. This is all on him/them, with no Coach Gibbs/Spurrier/Marty/Norv to blame. Zorn is VinnyDAN's creature, and even if he signed off on someone, they take the hit. Same with Blache.

I don't have much opinion about not taking OL and DL in the later rounds. A lot of the guys I wanted are undrafted, so not taking them with picks was vindicated. Most of the DEs in later rounds are like the guys we have, tweeners with pass rushing skills.

My thoughts (cause everyone really needs to know this) on the draft:

Devin Thomas (WR) - Great combination of need and value - no issues at all with the pick. I might have taken Jenkins at 21, but it was worth the gamble on losing Merling to trade down, and Thomas is real value at a real need at 34.

Fred Davis (TE) - seems like the value is there, but not the need. It was a depth pick, which is something you can defend when you are picking high. I don't love it, would not have made it, but can defend it. That said, we will have to follow the careers of some guys who had value here AND filled a need at OL, DT and DL.

Malcolm Kelly (WR) - The victory of value over need. It should mean that we won't have the same worries about Santana's hamstrings and ARE's limitations, and allow ARE to be more varied in his uses. I do think that depth at WR has been a bigger issue in recent years then JLC thinks, and while it is a dependent position, being able to plug a real receiver in when (not if) Moss goes down does benefit the QB and the running game.

Chad Rinehart (OG) - Love his size and the text on him. Definite need, can play two or three positions on the line. Can't argue with the pick. Need and, I hope, value.

Justin Tryon (CB) - Again, need and value. Not a perfect prospect, but who is at that point.

Durant Brooks (P) - Sigh. I don't like Frosty, but I don't like drafting kickers either. Clearly he was a value pick in terms of how he was rated and where he was picked, but would not have made the pick. The 2nd best punter in the draft was available as an UDFA, and this pick could have been used to develop a LB, CB, S, OL or DL, all of whom can make the team on the scout team or special teams.

Kareem Moore (S) - Need and value. Good pick.

Colt Brennan (QB) - Need yes. Value yes. Do I think it will work out? No. But it is the 6th round, a developmental pick for a developmental position. Don't love it, but not a huge problem for me. The 6th round is where you take fliers on QBs.

Rob Jackson (DE) - Need- YES, value, who knows. He seems like one of those tweeners that would have been available as an UDFA. At this point in the draft, why not.

Christopher Horton (S) - Need and Value - I like this kid a lot, although his bio reads a lot like Doughtery (sic). A safety can make the team on specials and develop. Decent size and is aggressive. Sounds like a guy who at least can make the team covering returns.

Would I have preferred them to take a more complete DE in the 2nd round rather than Kelly or Davis? Yes. But I am not quite as down on it as JLC.

Sorry, that should be all I can ask for... you can clearly ask for something else entirely...

Everyone keeps talking about Defensive end....Why does nobody talk about Chris Wilson? He had 4 sacks last year in a very limited role!

Posted by: Uncle Spence | April 28, 2008 9:43 AM

Looks like a great pass rusher, but at 245-250 LBs, would seem to be a liability against the run.

Philip Daniels is the DE run stopper, but he's getting way up there in years and miles.

Adam

Really, who wasn't scratching their heads watching the Skins in the second round? That was bizarre. JLC might be a little harsh in his assessment, but he's right about a lot of it. I had never really thought about Snyder's obsession with WRs.

Yoder is a good blocker, and can catch the occasional pass. Lets not make him out to be something he is not.

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 9:28 AM

I will never forget Yoder putting Dawkins down, and out of the game, against Philly early in the season last year. I hope there's a spot for him on the team.

The favorable draft evaluations being touted relied almost exclusively on a simple cost-benefit analysis based on who went when. They hardly addressed what the team needs were and whether they were addressed or should have been, as Jason had. A self-appointed goon squad in here is just all we need at the present moment, too. When this team has been middle-of-the-pack for oh so long now, how exactly do you ignore what they do? You'd think they'd been to Super Bowls all along...

Durant Brooks (P) - Sigh. I don't like Frosty, but I don't like drafting kickers either. Clearly he was a value pick in terms of how he was rated and where he was picked, but would not have made the pick. The 2nd best punter in the draft was available as an UDFA, and this pick could have been used to develop a LB, CB, S, OL or DL, all of whom can make the team on the scout team or special teams.

Posted by: RedBee | April 28, 2008 9:48 AM

Bee--

1. Brooks was the only punter on the 'Skins board. They didn't have a "second highest."

2. As for UDFA, they are eligible to sign with 31 other teams. 'Skins couldn't even get Henderson from MD to sign with them. UDFA is a real crapshoot.

3. Frost is the 32nd ranked punter in the NFL. This is a position in major need of an upgrade.

Hay jva,

How many TD's did the WR's have last year? OK enough said, I will say it again you can not win if you can not score points.

Philip Daniels is the DE run stopper, but he's getting way up there in years and miles.

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 9:49 AM

You're right, but other than Merling, that type of player was long gone by #20. And he was gone by the time the skins picked.

Who here thinks that a better day one draft would be Merling in the first and Kelly in the second? Maybe, but I'm not confident enough about that to put money on it... or type a half-page screed on organizational incompetence.

JLC - you really do SUCK! Not because I disagree with you (I agree with everything you said about the draft strategy), but because you don't know anything about football. Please explain to me how it is possible to have 6 eligible receivers on the field when you empty the backfield! It is not possible! 5 linemen + 1 QB = 6 guys. That leaves just 5 eligible receivers.

And how come ESPN beats you to every breaking redskins story???????

Hmm, interesting opinion from JLC. It does seem that the Redskins could have "diversified their draft portfolio" so to speak.

Although, to be blunt, JLC's opinion - pretty much like mine - means squat.

He's a reporter. That's all. Not a football expert.

I wish the reporters in America one day would realize what their job is and what it isn't.

Report the news; don't make it.

Because frankly, too many reporters think they if only they ran the world, everything would be just so much better.

you all know that i pretty much look for any excuse to bash JLC, but he did make several valid points.

The Thomas pick was solid. I also think getting Kelly was a no-brainer - we were enamoured with him and its true that moss can't stay healthy. ARE is a #3 guy. Realistically, in 1-2 years, we were going to need two new WRs for our #1 and #2 receiver slots - it takes receivers a while to develop so i view this as a great move.

The one thing I don't like is the davis pick - yeah he was undoubtably a steal there... but you can find great TEs in the 4th round. Getting Campbell would have been stupid since he is more suited for a 3-4 defense, but we should have gone after a CB, S, or DT there.

JLC is on point that this was a stoopid move. That being said, i like that we will likely not have to worry about the skill positions on offense for years to come.

In Rinehart, Heyer, and Alexander, we have solid backups and future potential starters for our O-line.

Our defensive backfield is set. Next year in the draft, we can very likely use ALL our draft picks on backup OL, starting DL, and maybe a LB.

Message to JLC:

You need to get laid, man !
Get off that pessimistic mood...how long since you had a GOOD one ?

I think the Skins did pretty decent this weekend...you can only do so much when your highest pick is #21...and for once, we have a bunch of good prospects...no wonder Jason Campbell called coach Zorn to thank him for all the new weapons...and yes, we still need a DL...but all in all we solved a bunch of needs...HAIL !

The second round receiver picks were all about all those times inside the red zone where the Skins settled for field goals for the lack of big, athletic targets.

Remember the losses against the Cowboys and Giants? I would have killed for another big target aside from Cooley to find (they even caught to Mike Sellers).

Remember all the talk about maybe using Sean (RIP) in red zone?

Now the Skins have two big targets, two real field stretchers, and two 'can't put a linebacker on him' TE's. The offense could be creating the matchup problems it needs to support JCampbell.

Of course, I would also invite people to go back and look at JLC's take on last year's inability to get D Lineman, and the team finished 8th in the NFL in defense (after losing Sean)!

I would also note that the Skins in the last game of the season set Dallas's rushing futility record (-7 in a game), with that AWFUL (sic) D-Line.

I hope everyone has their "-7" signs for the 'Girls game.

not sure what people hope to accomplish by constantly ripping on JLC. would you be happy if he didn't blog? do you think you can convince him that dan snyder is good for the team?

it's clear his blog is largely opinion/column not fact/reporting, which i think is great. he probably tends to fit facts (hearing coaches question the grades given to WRs) but you can decide for yourself if the coach providing that assessment should be ignored or not. I like hearing that stuff.

there seems to be some people who are offended by anything negative said about the team... as a longtime die hard fan i think it's our right and obligation to demand the best from the franchise. if that means questioning the way the team is run and hopefully causing some change, i think we are being loyal, not disloyal.

Another great outcome in this draft:

We didn't trade away a single pick from next year's draft to move up and "steal" a guy with questionable legs.

This board is such an interesting example of the Danny's attempt to harass Jason into ceasing his appropriately data-driven criticism of this team. I mean, who could really argue with Jason's centralm premise that until the front office structure changes, this team will continue to be terrible for the next decade, just like the past decade.

Here's some evidence of the Danny's concerted attempt to harass Jason off the beat:

1) These crazy posts attacking Jason personally, even though he has been more right about the Redskins over the past five years than virtually anyone I know.

2) The recent complaint to the Sports section editors over Jason's suggestion that the Dann'y businesses haven't been doing well recently (obviously true).

3) The concerted effort to label Jason as anti-Italian (supposedly orginating with the an Italian American organization but with the Danny and Vinny's fingerprints all over it) because of the recent Vinny naming contest. (See Howell's column yesterday on the Op Ed page).

Redskins - this is pathetic. Who are these morons who buy your tickets to enable this type of pathetic behavior?

No doubt that as individual picks, this draft was great. We got fantastic value, especially out of guys like Thomas and Kelly. It's tough to argue with that.

Having said that, I'm still disappointed with the overall draft, and the lack of addressing the offensive and defensive lines. One guard isn't what I consider addressing a line that has every starter over the age of 30, and a 7th round comp pick certainly isn't what I call addressing the defensive line.

Yes, the 2nd rounders were great value. Yes, we should be set for years to come at the WR/TE position. But to me, this draft is evidence of how backwards Snyder and Cerrato view the way to build a football team. They'd rather have their "weapons" set before they build their "core" (meaning offensive/defensive line). I simply don't agree with that. Maybe our "gems" will eventually turn into consistent starters (Alexander, Heyer). Who knows.

And anyone can go back and forth with the arguments. Some say we needed the receivers and TE because Moss and ARE struggle to stay healthy. I can say we need legit o-line prospects for the same reason (Jansen, Thomas). Some will say that Jansen and Thomas are great talents that have a very legit shot of getting and staying healthy, therefore we don't need their replacements right away. Again, the same exact thing can be said of Moss and ARE. In the end, both these positions were needs, and our FO decided that "weapons" are more important than the trenches. Not something I, and apparently JLC, agree with.

And I'm still confused as to how we can pretty much completely ignore the defensive line in the draft. We had a group of overachievers last year, and we've done nothing to improve them.

In the end, we definitely got talent in this draft. Can't argue that. I was hoping for it to be more well-rounded, but overall this was a change of pace for the skins, and was a solid stepping stone for the future.

people seem to be obsessed with this "6 receivers" issue and i don't get it. you have to have depth... how many games have skins receivers missed over the last few years? you'll be lucky if it really is a problem finding time for all these picks.

not to mention the fact that like it or not a lot of picks don't work out, even for the best teams. you hope for the best but prepare for reality.

"But, once again, the Redskins raised eyebrows around the league with their approach. Maybe they'll end up being brave iconoclasts - smarter than everyone else; defying conventional wisdom - but here's an examination of why they are being questioned for taking three pass catchers with their top three picks at a time when even they admit there are also pressing needs at OT, DT, DE, C/G, S, CB, OLB, FB, QB."

Who exactly is "everyone else," J-dumb? Every real expert has praised the Skins for trading down and snagging 3 guys in the 2nd round all with 1st rd grades, including probably the 2 best WRs in the draft on most boards, which was a huge position of need.
You were wrong on every prediction you made, then had the nerve to say of the Kareem Nichols pick that "I got one right". You made a ton of predictions, all wrong btw, but I don't remember that post where you predicted they'd take Nichols. VC has far more credibility to me than you, a poor reporter with an obvious chip on his shoulder for DS, VC, and all other things Redskin. Get over yourself and realize your place is to report news, and nothing more.

not sure what people hope to accomplish by constantly ripping on JLC.

Posted by: in defense | April 28, 2008 10:00 AM

What do you hope to accomplish by kissing his a$$?

Day One of this draft still sucks. WR-TE-WR.

Day Two, whoop de doo. Nothing happened on day two to impress me or make up for the shabingus of day one. I mean, it's really terrific to have added a bunch of "just a guy" type players. Really, really terrific. I'm sure a couple of these schlubs will be contributors, and that will be awesome. But today, I'm nonplussed.

Also, and others have made similar comments, with all the trades down we made, shouldn't we have wound up with, like fifteen picks? I'm not really strong with the maths, but it seems like we subtracted by addition. Something like that.

Maybe something else is going to happen... maybe a big trade will surprise us and suddenly we'll have a pass rush. Maybe... *sigh*

Go Zorn. Hail Skins. And etc.

-Nate in the PDX

to me, the only questionable pick was Fred Davis. Even using two TE sets, the focus will be to get the ball to the WR's and Cooley. A second TE when Calias Campbell was there was shocking to me. We could have gotten a competent backup much later on and fill a glaring need a DE. That said, I love all the other picks, Frost sucks and if this guy can average a 5-10 yard improvement is huge in field position. The DB's all seem to be solid backups and depth that we needed, we wouldn't be giving our third QB reps this offseason anyway, its a new playbook the only QB's getting reps are JC and TC. The WR's!!!!! are you kidding me? we got the two best guys on most everybody's board and we needed help bad, we have had poor WR's for years. I know you don't know if they'll be great yet or not but they are certainly upgrades over the street crew we had previously behind Moss and ARE, and hopefully we can slide ARE back in the slot where he belongs. I thought it was a great draft with one weird pick.

I dont mind the two WR picks, but that TE pick was JUST STUPID. Ceratto is a fool and once again shows how ignorant he is. We have one of the best TE's in the entire NFL and we blow a high pick when we have so many pressing needs. Gollum you stink.

also, we need a DE, Jason Taylor is available, anybody think the Danny won't go get him?

there seems to be some people who are offended by anything negative said about the team

I disagree. I think that some of us are sick of hearing NOTHING BUT NEGATIVITY, on this blog. He states you can't judge a draft immediately, then continues to do the very think he stated that you CANNOT do.

Hey Nate if that is really you, what good does a DE do a team that can not score?

I agree with In Defense. Redskins fans LOVE to drink the Kool-Aid. That's why many of us are happy with just making the playoffs year after year. When you look at what the Giants did last year, they won with a young, fast defensive line. Football games are won in the trenches. You win by knocking down the other quarterback, and protecting your own. Look at what happened to the Patriots against the pressure of the Giants D-linemen, despite having an All World Quarterback and Wide Receiver combo, they lost.

Our offensive line is good, but old and injury prone. I only hope that JCampbell has time to throw the ball to the 6 receivers we plan on sending out there.

I'm ok with this draft. We ought to thank STL for taking Avery instead of Thomas... things would look a lot different if we took Kelly at #34.

Taking Davis at #48 is the big question, but having 2 good pass-catching TEs is a fine. Davis will push Cooley to be even better. Plus, both will line up on short yardage plays, along with Kelly and Thomas, giving skins a height advantage. NE had 2 good TEs (Stevens and Watson), both 1st rounders, before Stevens left for SEA. It worked extremely well for Brady.

ARE or Moss may be traded at some point. At any rate, I think the Skins are finally strong and deep at 2 positions (TE/WR) that will create match-up problems for opposing teams. Can Zorn and Campbell deliver? That's the question.

Getting the punter was a good pick. I love Rinehart, and the CB, Tryon, is a gamer (although he has a mouth that rivals Smoot's). Low-round safeties are good picks for depth -- one may pan-out to challenge Doughty. That's fine.

All-in-all, not perfect but there's little to complain about. 3 #2s is a good haul -- affordable potentially top-line players. If the OL and DL studs were not there in the second round, what can you do? Look back at prior drafts: a lot of high picks don't pan-out. Got to take players you like, regardless of need and position. The question is, is our scouting dept any good?

JLC is the worst!!

Nate in the PDX,

Exactly which dude should the Redskins have picked that would suddenly have given us a pass rush? All the serious game changers were gone when the Redskins picked.

And exactly who should they have picked on the second day who wasn't a "just a guy" player? It's the second day of the draft.

Great assessment JLC. Soo many needs and these baffoons continue to be obsessed with WR. Again, two picks...enough. Get some interior help. It was just a stupid, stupid pick. Gollum at his best.

SMC, here is your big chance. How would you have done this draft? You obviously work in the football industry, so expound upon us some of your vast knowledge.

Last I checked the Redskins have a top 10 defense and an offense that is full of overpriced skill players that can't get in the end zone. This team routinely scores 17 or less points a game. So what's the big deal about drafting pass catchers. How many TD's have Moss and Randel El scored in the last 2 years?

Why should anyone be surprised by the Redskins picks in the draft? This team has no plan! No GM equals, no plan. They have gapping needs at both offensive and defensive lines and they instead of spending their first three picks addressing those needs, they select three pass cathers. When will the team understand that without a solid line, it doesn't make a difference how gifted your WR's are.

Another great outcome in this draft:

We didn't trade away a single pick from next year's draft to move up and "steal" a guy with questionable legs.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 10:02 AM

And another:

We didn't trade multiple picks for Chad Johnson!!!!

The standard among the haters, includ Hate in the PDX, seems to the that we have to solve all our problems in one draft. And if we don't solve them all, then the front office are "idiots" (at best).

Well, that would be fine if we had 18 picks in the first three rounds. We had three picks in the first three rounds, and we got three first round talents. That was a windfall.

Next year, we'll solve more problems in the draft. And more still in the following year.

Just look at what parcels did with the dolphins..

Who cares? We have more playoff wins in the last decade than he does

Hey Esteban,

Tell me who of the O-Line prospects you would have picked that would have started this year? Do not just post what we should have done back it up with some knowledge if you have any. The O-Line played pretty good last year and guess what we averaged 16 points a game.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Discuss.

Malcolm Kelly was hands down the best receiver in this draft and will turn into a solid player. The only reason he drops is because he runs 40 time that doesn't blow anyone away. News flash - measurables are bunk. If you're a football player you're a football player and will succeed at the next level. I would've been happy selecting him at #21 but getting him, Thomas and Davis was just icing on the cake.

Granted I would've picked Calais Campbell, (Miami players always become good pro's and this guy is no differesnt) over Fred Davis but Davis is still a beast and will create major mismatches in the passing game.

Maybe the Chad Johnson thing is not over?? 2 WR's in the 2nd round. Trade Moss from Chad Johnson and next years 2nd rounder?? Its a reach, but maybe something to think about.

When will the team understand that without a solid line, it doesn't make a difference how gifted your WR's are.

Posted by: Esteban | April 28, 2008 10:19 AM

When will you understand that if your pee-wee receivers can't get open, it doesn't matter how long the QB has to throw the ball?

So... how many more PPG are we going to score this fall, now that we have these new WRs and TE? Make your predictions now...

I reserve the right to be unimpressed with this draft. But I have been clearly in the minority up here, saying D line and O line and even secondary should have been a priority over WR... so obviously I have been out of synch with the front office for months now (shocker).

Really glad to see so much happiness/positivity over the draft (honest!), especially in the wake of the comedy of errors coaching search. Sorry I'm not on board with it, but I have "trust issues" with this front office.

I sincerely hope the result of all this -- the new coaching staff, FA inactivity, draft, UDFAs -- is a better team this fall than we had last fall. We shall see.

-Nate in the PDX

Lets all be honest... We're arent going to win the Superbowl next year.

New Coach
New system

A playoff berth would be a great outcome. We addressed our skill postions for WCO.

Next season, land a free agent OL or DL and draft linemen and linebackers in next years draft.

Exactly which dude should the Redskins have picked that would suddenly have given us a pass rush? All the serious game changers were gone when the Redskins picked.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 10:14 AM

I'll chime in here, if you don't mind. There were two moves that could've been made.

(1) We could've kept the #21 pick, and drafted Merling. We still would have gotten Kelly at 51. We would've had to sacrifice Davis (not a huge loss, IMO), and probably could have found a serviceable 2nd TE later in the draft. I'm not faulting the skins for trading back, I thought it was the right move, but this certainly was an option.

(2) We could've taken Calais Campbell instead of Davis at 48. Campbell didn't perform well (with measurables) at the combine, and thus had his stock drop. He's had a 1st round grade all year, and only fell after his poor workouts. We all praise the Kelly pick for picking a 1st-round talent who fell b/c of poor 40 times and a questionable attitude. How exactly is Campbell any different? And you can't say that TE was a greater need than DE, because it's not.

That 2nd scenario is the most puzzling to me. TE wasn't even on our radar, but somehow after the draft we "needed" a 2nd TE because Yoder isn't good enough to run the 2TE sets, and Cooley has all of a sudden become "expensive."

I'm cautiously optimistic about this draft. Here is what Clark Judge on CBS Sportsline says about the skins draft:

"8. Nobody did better in the second round than Washington. At the 21st spot, the Redskins were weighing defensive end Phillip Merling vs. Devin Thomas. Then Atlanta called. The Redskins traded out, moving down to the 34th spot, yet still found Thomas. So they chose him with one of Atlanta's two second-round picks and tight end Fred Davis with the other. Smart."

Now looking at it that way...I wouldn't have been blown away that the skins picked Thomas with the 21st. I would have rather had Merling but knowing Dan the man I knew we would have gotten a receiver. Because of this deal we basically got Fred Davis for free. I would have rather gotten Calais Campbell with the 48th and then grabbed Fred Davis with the 51st if he was still there, but hey I don't run this thing.

Drafting the punter was a great call. Yes I said it. Frost is average at best. And we all know that the first 6-8 games of the year we are going to have a good amount of three and outs, because it always takes at least one year to get used to a system. So field position will be huge and I just don't trust good ol' Frosty with his knack of shanking punts at the worst times. He has gotten better...but he's average at best. This kid is going to be top 7 or 8 in the league his first year.

The Offensive Lineman we took is going to be a great guard and can play tackle like he did in college...should someone go down. I think we got a good corner at the time we took him, even though he is small, but he has speed not to get beat.

We just have to hope we don't get too banged up on the defensive line because as it is we are already thin and average to below average there compared to the rest of the league. Let's see if our linebackers and secondary can make up for it...again.

Tell me who of the O-Line prospects you would have picked that would have started this year? Do not just post what we should have done back it up with some knowledge if you have any. The O-Line played pretty good last year and guess what we averaged 16 points a game.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 10:24 AM

Who of these receivers is going to start this year? How about Davis? My guess is none of them. This draft was for the future, not for immediate dividends. The FO decided that WR and TE were more of a need for the future than O-line or D-line. Not very smart IMO.

Doesn't it worry you as fans that Snyder was locked onto Ocho Stinko in January so much so that he mentioned him in coaching interviews? And that he obsessed over him right up until draft day?

Skins fans owe a debt of gratitude to the Bengals. I do have some concerns about taking three pass catchers, but will wait and see on that.

But it is completely nuts the way ownership and the FO obsessed over Ocho Stinko. Same old same old

I agree it would have been nice to get help at DL but Groves and Campbell both fit more in a 3-4 defense. At DT after Dorsey, Ellis, and Balmer their are no DT worth drafting over players like Kelly or Davis. I am happy to see them at least drafting players instead of going out and trading for players on the downside of their career or signing overpriced free agents. I hope this is a sign of things changing.

I guess what concerns me most is that I thought bolstering the pass rush was a very big deal for this team this offseason, and that we could have found SOMEONE in one of the early rounds who plays on the D line and could join the rotation and provide some push upfield... acknowledging that all the apparent D line studs were gone by the time we were on the clock with #21... but then nothing. We hear nothing about D line until well into day two, with our ninth pick, in the seventh round.

Again, the fact that I was this out of synch with the front office is no surprise...

Not saying we could have solved our pass rush problems in this draft given the hand we were dealt, just that it's April 28 and we haven't done anything that will definitely improve our pass rush for this fall. Or maybe I missed something.

-Nate in the PDX

So... how many more PPG are we going to score this fall, now that we have these new WRs and TE? Make your predictions now...

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 10:27 AM

How many are you predicting, Nate, with all your negativity?

Last year the 'Skins averaged 20.9 points per game, tied for 18th in the league. Four more points per game would have raised them to ninth -- right between the Browns and the Steelers. New England was first with 36.8 and the Cowboys were second with 28.4.

psps-

I would put money on one or both of those receivers starting this season.

1. This is a not an article (news), or a column (opinion), but a BLOG. It's a this-is-what-I'm-thinking-at-the-moment piece. If you don't like it, so what?
2. Name one owner in the last 30 years who has been successful by meddling in the draft. Fans always love flashy positions like WR and QB, and undervalue the guys doing the real work. If you aren't trouble by reading that Snyder was actually at the workouts, you aren't thinking too clearly.
3. WRs don't pan out about 50% of the time -- you just can't tell. Plus, it takes 3 years for most of them to be ready to start (with a few notable exceptions -- the most prominent of which was one of hte last players drafted 2 years ago -- so don't get your hopes up too high for either of these guys to help much this year. Or next.
4. Zorn is going over JC's mechanics. I hope he has a drill for throwing long while going down underneath a 260 pound DE.
5. The people happiest about the draft are probably the Giants' defensive line. Although it may be the Eagles' defensive line. Or maybe Dallas' guys. Their offensive lines are probably pretty pleased too.

I'm sorry, but JLC has cleary gotten sick of this beat. I'm just tired of every article being completely negative. It's entirely possible everything he says could come true, but it's also possible we could finally have the really great offense we've been craving for. JLC's favorite team the Ravens reached on Flacco, and they still don't have the WR core to be a stellar offense. Whether or not you agree with the WR picks, you can't argue the value we got with those picks.

Section 104 - - Well Said! The only thing I would add is to take a look at how long it took our receivers to score at touchdown last year. Cooley was the only reliable weapon in the red zone. We kicked way too many field goals last year. I envision a scenario where Santana and ARE and Thomas run defenses all over the field. Then in the red zone, here comes the big package.

Washington Redskins - OG Kerry Brown, OT Shannon Boatman, OT Devin Clark, S Kevin Mitchell, CB Matterral Richardson, DL Dorian Smith, C Kyle DeVan

From:

http://potencial.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/udfa-tracker/

The one thing that gives me pause was listening to The Owner on radio this past Friday (or someday over the weekend?) about the "product" (i.e., the draft board) that does (did) the picking ... so that part of Jasno's read makes sense to me ... if you fiddle on the board at the end of the process to move guys up a position, then the results should be expected.

Also, he (The Owner) said something about how they got the "character issue guys" off the board. On that, I say BS. The reason Fred Davis was available when we got him -- even if he graded as best TE in the draft -- was because of "character issues." [I don't know his full story ... someone can fill us in ... but many sites dropped him to something like the #4 TE based on his maturity and rep.

On the idea of getting three receivers in a row, esp. if they really only want or need one receiver, I am AOK with that. Receivers are the biggest crap shoot in the draft ... if you want one, pick three and hope for the best.

My ultimate judgments about this draft, i.e., whether it gets my A grade, is on >5 of the 10 make the roster. If they do, I give it an A. If not, it gets a C. Less than 3 gets a C minus. I also am a little concern about how much the character-dar got loosened in post-Gibbs year one. If any one of the picks doesn't make the roster based on an off-field screwup (as opposed to actual talent), then I give it a C minus regardless.

Finally, I totally agree with Jasno's take on how the head coachabingus has way over-extended Zorn. Something had to give. Sounds like the something will turn out to be the playbook.

The FO decided that WR and TE were more of a need for the future than O-line or D-line. Not very smart IMO.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 10:32 AM

Agree to disagree. Great to get JC his receivers of the future. They need to work together and build timing. The sooner they start, the better. Not much timing to build between JC and the right guard.

And, yeah, at least one of those receivers will be a starter in the first game this year, pushing ARE to #3 where he was signed to play.

Psps,

Merling is not a rusher he is a run stopping DE, Campbell is a 3-4 DE who is about as strong as my 10 year old daughter. One of the WR's will be starting day one and as soon as Moss or ARE get hurt the other will be starting.

Here's the deal: the front office went out and got a bunch of "playmakers" for this offense. They have no excuses next year. It's Snyder's GM, coach, draft, and organization. We will soon see if he has learned something in his decade in the NFL, or if it's more of the same tomfoolery and hijinks.

My money's on the latter, but it's not like I'm all of a sudden going to stop watching or going to games. After all, I've been a fan of the maroon and black and gold since I was a wee little lad.

Thomas will start this year and ARE will go back to the slot where he is the highest paid player in the league. Everyone bashes the fact we didn't go OLine, but we did, we took a guard/tackle to add to our stable of solid backups, Fabini, Wade, Heyer, and Alexander. We have great depth on the Oline and if Thomas and Jansen stay healthy, we have one of the best Olines in the league, a backup center can be found anywhere. Now with all our weapons we have helped JC, our Oline (now pinning your ears back with legit threats outside) and CP cause they can't stack the box on him, I'm tired of our 16 points a game and hope the defense holds, lets open it up and put some pressure on people, obviously that's what Zorn wants to do and now we have the weapons to do it. Plus, we can get a vet DE or DT after the June 1st cuts, there was nobody there that was a sure thing on the Dline and we needed the WR's. Free Agency proved there were no good WR's out there.

One more thing: The Skins rather inadvertently showed their great confidence in their own selections by drafting a new punter. They must figure that they're going to need him. Maybe there will be so much work that they'll keep Frost as well.

Please sign a name to your comments, anonymous friend at 10:36am. You're participating in the conversation, and you ought to be using a name. It's more fun that way.

In 2007 we scored 20.9 PPG, tied for 18th in the league.

I predict we will score 20 PPG in 2008, a reduction of .9 PPG. While our punting will be better, our placekicking will decline, to the tune of approximately one missed extra point a week.

Predictions are awesome.

-Nate in the PDX

skinfanman, I'm with you on 100% of your posts today. Also, thanks for the UDFA link!

NFL | D. Smith does limited work at Pro Day - from www.KFFL.com
Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:42:26 -0700

J.J. Pesavento, of Next Level Scouting, reports Oregon State DL Dorian Smith measured a height of 6-foot-1 1/2 and a weight of 264 pounds at his Pro Day. He measured a 30 1/2-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-2 broad jump and ran the 40-yard dash in 4.87 seconds.

Skins had a good draft. YOu can't address all the needs all the time. They got great value int he WR picks and have set up the offense fro quite some time. Our defense was decent last year, if our offense can be just a little more productive then we will be alright. Maybe we can sign Marcus Dixon as a UFA?

Welcome to DC draft picks, here a little somethign to help you get acquanted with the neighbor hood.

http://www.straycompass.com/article_page.php?recordID=14

Although there were some questionable decisions, I liked the draft overall. I actually like the two wide receivers we got in the 2nd round. They were first round talent at 2nd round value and that position has been a problem for us for so unbelievably long. You figure they won't resign S. Moss when his contract is up. So, it will be M. Kelly, D. Thomas and Randel El. They will be 6'4, 6'2 and 5'10, respectively. Not bad. The TE selection is questionable. I know we need a younger TE to complement and backup Cooly. Todd Yoder is old and they other guy we drafted in the 7th round last year has been hurt. And, I know Davis was a first round grade that fell into the 2nd round, but we just should have addressed the TE later in the draft and focused more on a blocking TE. I don't know why we selected a punter in the 5th round after we just resigned Derrick Frost. I like the OG pick from Northern Iowa in the 3rd. I don't mind the QB pick to groom a 3rd stringer. I don't mind the two safety picks, but we should have picked safeties earlier in the draft. I don't like CB pick. The guy is too small and not fast enough. So, if little old me was going to grade, I would have to give the draft a C+. But, I'll give them credit that they stuck to their board. When you reach for a need, that is when you make bad picks. I would have liked some more offensive lineman, LBs and CBs, but I am glad we are done trying to find a WR every freaking year. Also, why is everyone freaking out of the Dline. We just drafted two solid guys a couple of years ago and Andre Carter is still young and Chris Wilson is coming along well. D. Evans can play in his spot to stop the run, too.

Both Brennan and Davis have had character issues in the past. Brennan's issues were serious, Davis's issues (tardiness, sleeping in meetings, etc.) seem more like the issues of a homesick 19 year old than a real character flaw. By all accounts, Davis has put that stuff behind him. Brennan, also, has paid his dues to society and seems to have matured. I'd give them both the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Who of these receivers is going to start this year? How about Davis? My guess is none of them. This draft was for the future, not for immediate dividends. The FO decided that WR and TE were more of a need for the future than O-line or D-line. Not very smart IMO

psp, I'd bet that all of the players picked in the second round contribute this year. What part of Santana's last two years gives you the idea that he's going to be healthy all year long? Who would you rather have stepping into that spot, Thomas or Kelly, or Thrash Mix? Lets say the Redskins go 4 wide on occasion, does Thomas and Kelly give you more options than Thrash/Mix.

Also, did Reinhart not get drafted? Is he not able to help out the offensive line? Or is he just not who you wanted the Redskins to draft.

Nate,

I used to use a name, but got tired of the hate. Now, my ideas speak for themselves.

Then in the red zone, here comes the big package.

Posted by: Fingerchop | April 28, 2008 10:38 AM

That's what she said.

My other thought ... Jasno put a little too much stock in the insufficiency in numbers of replacements at the line of scrimmage. The Skins could afford to go BPA at every pick this year b/c they have 25 returning starters. Admittedly, the Skins will need to return to the line of scrimmage next year in free agency and the draft, but the depth who started last year (Fabini, Heyer, rotating DTs and DEs) will all return to being depth this season. The Skins had no depth at WR last year ... just free agent filler.

With that, I'm holding my breath until they target Albert Haynesworth in free agency next season ...

JLC, you are so wrong. Your basic assumption is flawed because you are judging the Skins front office as a professional one representing a franchise with a rich history. HA! Yea right! To properly view this draft we have to simply say one thing, for the first year (thus far) the Skins did not sale the future and CAP purgatory on one or two overvalued free agents.

No, they drafted three rookie pass catchers with manageable cap figures for the next three years. So what we lost half of our starting right side last year. So what the only playable backup lineman is Stephon Heyer. So what the Giants won the superbowl because of the pressure they put on the QB. These things don't matter when you can catch the ball.

JLA - I appreciate your hard work, but this is a little ridiculous (maybe you need some rest). I know we need some help on the lines, but need it more at WR and TE. Consider:

OL
Jansen
Samuels
Kendell
Thomas
Heyer
Wade

DL
Golston
Griffin
Carter
Daniels
Montgomery

WR
Moss
ARE
?
?

TE
Cooley
?

We need several players, but I think WR and TE should be near the top. Our WRs were just not that good last year and Cooley is seeing too many defenders when he releases.

this may have already been posted, but for what its worth, mel kiper completely disagrees with jason, saying that the redskins had the "best move" in the draft for an NFC East Team:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/columns/story?columnist=walker_james&id=3370782

Best move

After failing to land Cincinnati Bengals receiver Chad Johnson in a trade last week, the Washington Redskins did a great job of upgrading the position by taking Michigan State's Devin Thomas and Oklahoma's Malcolm Kelly in the second round.

Thomas and Kelly were considered among the top three receiving prospects, and the Redskins landed both by trading out of the first round to gain a pair of second-round picks.

Redskins rookie head coach Jim Zorn will implement a West Coast offense and needs big receiving targets who can make plays after the catch. Thomas (6-foot-2, 216 pounds) and Kelly (6-3¾, 224) fit the bill.

Drafting these two players puts the Johnson pursuit to rest, but it's a pretty good consolation.

I don't understand all the hate towards Moss and ARE. When did they become the enemies of this franchise? ARE was the most reliable receiver we had (before he got hurt), and Moss (despite having a couple DISMAL games), still is an elite talent that had over 800 yards while missing A LOT of time on the field. Assuming that they'll automatically be injured is just as stupid as assuming Jansen and Thomas will have some freak injury cut their season short.

My guess is that all 4 stay healthy for the season, Moss returns to pro-bowl level (simply by staying healthy), ARE has a career year (somewhere around 60 rec. for 800-900 yards), and neither Thomas nor Kelly take over either of their spots this year.

Again, I won't bash either Thomas or Kelly, and I sincerely hope they become what we think they will become. I just question the judgment of the FO to put so much stock into the WR/TE position, and so little into the offensive/defensive lines.

Calvin Johnson, whom everyone agreed was the most physically gifted and talented Wide Receiver in the history of the draft, could barely break the starting line-up last year in Mike Martz's pass happy offense. I don't know where the people who keep saying that one of our draft picks will be a reliable player in the upcoming season are coming from. Neither of those receivers that we took in the 2nd round are even close to Johnson's ability.

I also happen to think that JLa's blogs are healthy for Redskins nation. If it weren't for his doses of pessimism, we'd all be drunk off the kool-aid all year round.

* Kerry Brown, OG, Appalachian State
* Shannon Boatman, OT, Florida State
* Devin Clark, OT, Mexico State
* Kevin T Mitchell, S, Illinois
* Matterral Richardson, CB, Arkansas
* Horace Gant, WR, St. Olaf
* Kyle DeVan, C, Oregon State
* Dorian Smith, DE, Oregon State

that's all I can find so far, I hope they get Ali Highsmith or some other LB help. Everybody please chill out a little too, we got some very good picks and we can fill out other needs with the post June 1st cuts they happen every year, there is no guarantee that these WR's will hit, but there is certainly no guarantee that any of those Dlineman available would hit either, why not take a shot and some of the best talents at a need position than take the 6 or 7th best guys at a position of less need. I thought it was a great draft, we only had 2 legit WR's on our roster....and I would argue that ARE isn't a legit WR.

Mel Kiper is an idiot.

I want to know who these linemen are the Skins should have drafted. It's not like they passed on Dorsey and little Howie. Can't we just be happy we didn't trade our entire board to the Bengals for a 30 year old receiver?

http://www.osubeavers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4700&ATCLID=130021

Greg,

If we culled your draft related posts from the last three weeks, they would fly in the face of what they actually did.

You wanted bodies/mashers on both sides of the ball, were steadfast adamately against Kelly and more stuff I can't recall.

But now your saying everyone else is smarter than you so why comment? I actually was looking forward to your posts today b/c your an intelligent team optimist, but this was not the draft you would have prescribed.

But whateves, its all beer talk at this point we'll see on the field. Unfortunetely that has not been a strength area for the skins for 16 years. Something's gotta give.

My take:

- I would have passed on Kelly

- I really dont get the TE Davis pick. To me this degrades the draft. Good player, bad pick. And i am not going to buy he was the best player on the board.

- love the thomas pick

- love the reinhart pick, all his negaives seem like perfect things for buges to fix.

- nervous about the number of smaller college guys.

- love the ammount of picks

- love how we valued the draft

- love how we arent adding first round money to cap.

- love DB youth

- punter could be brilliant or a waste...wil b e fun to monitor and something we can judge quickly.

I don't think anybody is bashing ARE and Moss. It is more the fact that that they have not been able to remain healthy.

greg,

i was ecstatic for the Rinehart selection. But there are still (at least) 3 other positions on the o-line that need depth and eventual replacements. heyer could be one of those, but we needed more options there.

Calvin Johnson, whom everyone agreed was the most physically gifted and talented Wide Receiver in the history of the draft, could barely break the starting line-up last year in Mike Martz's pass happy offense.

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 10:52 AM

Saw an interview with Calvin J. He talked about a back injury he had. Needed an injection just to go out and play each Sunday, but did it.

Well i think Zorn has a pretty good idea about our recievers and players. We did play Seattle 2/3 years in the playoffs. I am sure he looked at tons of film and such. And he left on good terms with holgrem i bet he has scouting tapes of all of our players provided to him.

While i agree that our oline is aging it certainly isnt in dire straights. Our D line was solid last year, not great but certainly not horrible.

Our recievers however, if i have to watch one more ball sail 1" over our smurf recievers hands again i may puke. LINEMAN in this league are 6-4 to 6-7 how the heck do you find a reciever unless he is 30 yards down field that is 5-10? Good stuff in the draft in my opinion.

Here is why it was a successful draft for the skins:

1) They havent had a consistent top rated passing game since '91 and its the primary reason they havent been very sucessful. They have the QB in Campbell, it would be a shame if they didnt get him some weapons.

2) Everyone keeps talking about the holes on the o-line, but arent looking at the whole picture. All of them will be back next year so their is no gaping hole. there were 8 offensive lineman taken in the first round, and by the time the skins picked (at 21) none of the good ones were left. Looking at the 2009 draft 7 offensive lineman have first round grades. Supply and demand dictates that one or more of those guys are going to be available in the second round, so skins will have opportunity to fix the issue next year.

3) D-line definitely needs help but we have had top 10 defenses through most of the Snyder era without any true superstars on the d-line.

Todd Yoder is old and they other guy we drafted in the 7th round last year has been hurt. ... I don't know why we selected a punter in the 5th round after we just resigned Derrick Frost. ... I don't mind the two safety picks, but we should have picked safeties earlier in the draft. ...

Posted by: carnold | April 28, 2008 10:46 AM

First of all, welcome to the blog!

Second, I don't understand the disinterest in Yoder. If the definition of playmaker is make a play at a real important time to change momentum, see Yoder. The connections (plural) from The Todd to Todd came at key moments (and DEEP balls) for TDs. Plus, his special teams tackle numbers are large. Also, he is not old.

Next, that final round safety is exciting to me ... plus he worked under DeWayne Robertson (Skins secondary coach just prior to becoming DC at UCLA) ... so presumably the information pipeline was working. I think the only reason he slid as far as he did has to do with the wrist injury. UCLA's safety combo was Area 51 in JV form.

Derrick Frost has been a dead man walking since he tried to shop himself after getting a lowballed (vet min) with no signing bonus. The beginning of the end was the knee punts. Lucky rolls is no way to make a name for yourself long term on the roster. He has a long memory (after a bad punt ... that takes 2-3 more bad punts to shake), and no hang time. Given my months of pimping for a punter pick here, I concede bias (and victory!) on this point.

Finally, Skins have two starting safeties, and one guy to back them up. The skill set of a safety (esp. an aggressive one) is the backbone of special teams (see V. Fox and most recent special teams captain, R. Doughty). You have to use late round picks at some position.

You wanted bodies/mashers on both sides of the ball, were steadfast adamately against Kelly and more stuff I can't recall.

True, but in Reinhardt I think they came away with a steal. I also think that Kerry Brown is going to stick with this team. I was a big proponent of Nicks, and Brandon Keith, and wish the team had signed them, but that didn't happen.

Looking at what the team has struggled with the past few years, what the Redskins did makes sense. They didn't REACH for players. They got VALUE in where they drafted guys. I'd have preferred they stay away from Kelly, but that was based on his whining about the field conditions. He probably lasted til pick 51 because of that, so in a sense it helped the Redskins out.

http://condraft.com/profile.php?id=1433

So we should have taken middle tier depth at Oline and Dline where we return all our starters instead of taking premier talent at positions were we were returning........crickets.........crickets.......nobody!?!?!?!?! we had two WR's and James Trash on our roster and haven't had a decent backup TE ever. How have the Cowboys, Colts, and Patriots enjoyed having two solid threats at TE?

What a surprise, more doom and gloom from JLC. The D and our weak line has not precluded us from being top 10 3 of 4 years. D was not our problem scoring TD's is, so we tried to address it. Were we right who knows but we tried.

Your second guessing is a tired routine. Somehow every skins beat writer for the post ends up jaded and with an ax to grind. Sad and unprofessional.

3) D-line definitely needs help but we have had top 10 defenses through most of the Snyder era without any true superstars on the d-line.

Posted by: Just J | April 28, 2008 11:03 AM

That should say through the Marvin Lewis/ GWilliams eras. I think you're underestimating the impact the loss of Greg Williams will have on this defense. Hopefully I'm wrong on that point.

Dont forget people, that by trading out of the 21st pick the Redskins saved about $6M in guaranteed and basically got the player they wanted in the first place. Ultimately, they will be able to sign the 3 2nd rounders for less guaranteed money than the 1 # 1 @21.

I liked what the Skins did with their 1st and 2nd round picks...they basically got two big WR's that should fit into Zorn's offense and then got TE Fred Davis for free. The talent at #21 was just the same as talent at #40....so good for the Skins there. No doubt the Skins have lacked a decent #2 WR for years...so if Thomas or Kelly make it then GREAT...if both do then FANTASTIC....if both are busts at least it was a small 2nd round contract with little salary cap impact.

The second day of the draft, different story. I think they reached on all of the players. The Colt Brennan dude looks like he would have gone undrafted due to hip surgury. I think they really bombed on the second day....but I actually like the punter pick....hope he is consistent and punts Frost out of Ashburn.

My 2 cents

psp, isn't Blache going to run the same style of defense? How many starters did the Redskins lose in the offseason on Defense?

We effectively handled arguatively the best defensive line (Giants) twice last year with the entire right side of the line in the infirmary ward. We get those guys back this year, moving Fabini, Heyer, and Wade back to back-up roles.....add a potential stud in the draft and then add a more experienced Alexander to the mix. Other than a back-up center (which we should be able to address in post June 1 cuts), is offensive line really THAT big of a concern?

Maybe long-term (due to the current ages of the linemen), but short term...I think the FO was right in assessing WR as a greater need.

"Looking at what the team has struggled with the past few years, what the Redskins did makes sense. They didn't REACH for players. They got VALUE in where they drafted guys."

greg, I agree with your assessment here. As individual picks, we did fantastic. It's tough to argue that. As a whole, however, I don't think we had enough of a plan. I would have rather given up on Davis and/or Kelly, and taken positions of greater need, even if they were slight reaches. Thomas should've been enough to settle the WR issue, and Davis was completely unnecessary, especially in the 2nd round. That's the only problem I had with this draft.

psps,

There will be no drop off because we lost man boobs. Blache is just as effective as a DC, remeber the Bears defense was great while he was there.

++++Mel Kiper, who has dedicated his life to knowing the draft, and ALL things draft related, and is considered the FORE-MOST expert on things of a draft nature.++++

The ONLY thing Mel Kiper has dedicated his life to is his hair.

psp, isn't Blache going to run the same style of defense? How many starters did the Redskins lose in the offseason on Defense?

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 11:12 AM

He may run the same style, but that doesn't mean he'll be just as effective. I don't think our defense will be "bad", but I don't expect to see as good or better results than GWill had with this defense, especially since no impact players were added.

I disagree with Jason on this one. The Skins have absolutely no depth at WR, either, and the two starters are continually getting hurt. They needed to sure that up. The line is aging, but I think you can get another year out of that group. The Skins will address that in the next draft, I'm sure. I think the D-line has some young kids on it, too, so there's not as big a rush to fill those holes. The only pick I questioned was the USC TE. I know you need two in the WC offense, but I don't think they needed to reach that high for one.

got TE Fred Davis for free.

Posted by: the_squire | April 28, 2008 11:11 AM

He wasn't free. They gave up their third round pick. The Falcons used it to take a WR, Harry Douglas. But the 'Skins could have gotten a TE (Craig Stevens), the beast S that the Ravens got (Zbikowski) or a good DT or OLB.

Amazing that people can find the names of the UDFA's but the "Insider" has no idea or insight!! Joke!

I don't have a problem picking 2 WRs. Obviously the WR position is pot luck in ANY draft (see McMillan, Detroit). So all the arm chair quarterbacking about how good these WRs are compared to previous year's picks should just stop. We won't know how good they are for a couple years.

What I do have a problem with is the TE. We OBVIOUSLY didn't need him. And we have other, glaring needs. I remember being outraged when I saw that pick. I may have even posted some outrage on this blog. To me, that represents true negligence.

I'm also displeased that they didn't draft/sign Hampton's Dixon. He would have been a 3rd or 4th rounder had it not been for that whole rape trial and imprisonment thing. And we didn't get him. He went to Dallas. When you're at the bottom of the draft, you have to look for guys with talent and desire that for whatever reason didn't maximize it at the college level. Dixon was a prime example. He spend over a year in jail and that stunted his growth. But no one denies his talent. We could have had a late blooming, low risk, high reward player at a position of need and instead we drafted a S and a DE that probably won't make the team.

Par.

FRED DAVIS

Megalomaniac but well connected Radio sports dweeb Colin Cowherd reported today that the probable reason why Fred Davis slipped to the second round was sources said he isnt' dedicated enough and was "late to meetings."

Of course Colin has this whole theory about how USC offensive players suck in the pros because LA doesn't have a pro team, but it's a Red Flag, and USC offensive playes have tended to undeperform lately.

Those complaining about the O Line should consider that we were actually playing with our depth last year.

This year our starters are back, putting Heyer, Fabini, and Wade all back on the bench.

I think any team that can make the playoffs without two of their starting O Linemen for almost the entire season has pretty good depth.

The Skins can afford to wait a year to address that position. Not to mention that 6 O Lineman were gone before #21, and 8 before the second round.

Amazing that people can find the names of the UDFA's but the "Insider" has no idea or insight!! Joke!

Posted by: Synder's taller than me!!!! | April 28, 2008 11:19 AM

The incompetence of Jason La Canfora should "amaze" nobody. We have come to expect it from the outsider.

He may run the same style, but that doesn't mean he'll be just as effective. I don't think our defense will be "bad", but I don't expect to see as good or better results than GWill had with this defense, especially since no impact players were added.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 11:16 AM

psp, I don't get this logic. If its the same players, playing the same scheme, and they're doing it in the same style, why would it be different than what happened previously?

Hey dcsween, thank you. To answer some of your concerns, I don't have disinterest in Yoder. I actually think he is solid. But, it can't be denied that he is getting a little bit older (30), and he was very available to all the other teams when we signed him. I just think it wouldn't hurt to get someone younger and begin to groom them, but I also disagree with the Davis pick. I also agree the safety from UCLA seems exciting; however, there is a reason he lasted until the 7th round. We needed to address it earlier considering the lack of depth and injuries we have. As far as Frost is concerned, you're right I guess. As long as we just signed him to a small contract without a decent bonus, he is dispensable. But, no one else drafted a punter. I just felt like we kind of wasted a pick on a guy we probably could have signed as a free agent. But, I am not one of the haters. Overall, I like the draft. But, you would be a little bit blindly optimistic if you didn't question a few of these moves. It is as clear as day we needed OL depth, and we barely addressed it. Hope it all works out though.

other teammates commented on Melvin as well. WR Tomaras Peterson of Mississippi State recalled a game when he played agaist Melvin. "people talk about how fast he is, and thats true, but he also can jump. I remeber late in the third quarter I ran a fly route and my QB threw me a jump ball. I am 6'6 and Melvins like 5'9 or 5'8, something like that, he's pretty short. Anyways, the balls in the air and I leap as high as I can to catch it, but melvin snaggs it before it even gets to me. I aint never seen anybody jump that high, it was like he used a trampolene or something. I told the coaches they should ask to have his equipment checked becuase thats just not natural." When asked how high he thought Melvin had leaped on that play, Peterson replied "I aint real shure but it was pretty darn high, I mean I can touch the top of the backboard and I jumped as high as I could, and Melvins crotch was where my head was. I mean damn man, his balls were in my face, that aint never happened to me before, and I played basketball in high school. His balls were actually in my face"

Posted by: DWC | April 27, 2008 9:54 PM

Jason La-blah-blah....

You really are unbelievable with the angle you take towards this team all the time... You started coming around towareds the end of the season last year after ST passed and we started rolling... but it didn't take long for you to starte throwing bombs at this team and FO again....

I am convinced no matter how this draft turned out you would have found some way to spin it negative... Even if they had a spectacular draft, filling every need you would have said.... well too little too late.... they should have done 1 or 2 yrs ago....

Take a chill pill and cut your personal bias or dislike for this organization out of your professional work...

IT IS SO OLD!

initially i was very upset with the way the draft ended up for us. trading down to the second round was awesome. i didn't like our second trade, as it basically cost us a chance at dre moore.

i also though taking 2 wr and a pass-catching te in the second was overkill, since calais cambell was there for us. but many a scout has been very down on cambell, so maybe he wasn't the guy to take. and if our offense really likes to use 2 te sets a lot, then having davis would be key. my only real experience with the wc offense was when i was living in sf in the mid 90s. but i know that holmgren used a lot of 2 te sets both in seattle and greenbay.

as for 2 receivers, when we have 2 highly paid ones already on the roster, my brother made a good point about that: what other receivers do we have? thrash and mix? so we have 2 highly paid receivers who can never stay healthy. and even when they are healthy, they've only had two 1000+ yard seasons out of a combined 13. and they both turn 29 this summer. we're about to install a pass-first offense (it might take a full season to ease into it). so receivers are a definite need. i mean, as good as seattle's defense and offensive line has been, they've been pursuing an answer at receiver for years now.

and we all know you can't plug every hole a team has in one offseason. the skins have tried that before and failed, miserably. so maybe this year, we took receivers, and hopefully fixed that whole for years to come. next year, we might be in position to help the o-line, or d-line. they key is we brought in all these guys via the draft, and not in the first round. makes them a lot more affordable.

Jason,

*************************************
*************************************
Why do you still cover the 'Skins? It's clear you do not like the franchise nor the rabid fan base. PLEASE, no comments about how you're simply

You either enjoy sticking it to the franchise and the fans, or this has got to be driving you crazy.

I think both you and the rabid fans would be much better off if you covered something else.

On the other hand, I understand you're building your career, and you're sucking it up to move ahead-- there's a lot more money in the NFL than any other sport in the US, so that's where to make your mark as a reporter and writer.

But is it worth it?

carnold, don't get me wrong ... my draft watch started out depressed when the Skins didn't trade up to get Brandon Albert. On the other hand, I'm pleased that they didn't lock up a bunch of roster money in the unhappy (though excellent) receivers in Cinci or Arizona.

I just felt like we kind of wasted a pick on a guy we probably could have signed as a free agent.

Posted by: carnold | April 28, 2008 11:22 AM

Dude, get real. If we draft him he can only sign with us. If he's a free agent he can sign with 31 other teams. What's wrong with a sure thing, compared to odds of 1 in 32?

This is how we lost Henderson to the Vikings. We didn't draft him in the seventh.

corky, I heard that as well, and just those few moments reminded me why I can't stand Colin Cowherd... he compared the relative success in the NFL of guys from this USC dynasty and guys from the U-Miami dynasty of the 80's-90's, and his theory was that more of the U-Miami guys came from backgrounds of extreme poverty (esp from Dade County) and therefore were hungrier and harder workers their entire careers. Whereas more of the USC guys are recruited from relatively prosperous southern CA and are lazier, softer, more inclined to get by on talent than hard work. I love theories like this! Colin Cowherd, man does he suck.

So, we'll see if this TE we picked has poor work habits or whatever.

-Nate in the PDX

psp, I don't get this logic. If its the same players, playing the same scheme, and they're doing it in the same style, why would it be different than what happened previously?

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 11:22 AM

playcalling, adjustments, game-planning, etc. all these will be different with Blache around as compared to GWill. there's a reason GWill is so highly regarded as a D-coordinator. again, i don't want to blow it out of proportion and make it seem like all is lost on defense, but i simply don't think blache will be as successful as williams. maybe instead of being a top-5 to top-10 defense, we'll slip to top-10 to top-15. i hope i'm wrong with that, but i have a lot of respect for GWill and think it's unfair to put such high expectations on blache.

F Colin Cowherd......dudz a fool

Defense wins titles. Look at last year's Giants. They have two studs at DE and beat the best offense on the planet--with pressure. Jacksonville, who already has a stellar defense, drafted DE with their first and second pick. Danny and Vinny got rid of Gregg Willaims, now at Jacksonville, so they can pursue their silly fantasy. Springs and Smoot are old, Rogers can't cover and is still hurt. They need pressure by the D-line to help them out. Further, their O-line is old and will get hurt again. Campbell will not have time find any of these slow receivers that they drafted.

I'm a Jasno defender often. First off let me say the sick Getalifers who truly hate the fact that anyone dares be anything but a Home Town Jocksniffer are in need of serious therapy--or a job in politics.

That said, JLC went overboard on his negativism here. It was a hit jobk, and not a very good one, at that. read like it was written by an angry reporter steaming over past insults and past Idiocies at the FA level. For WHAT IT WAS, it wasn't a bad draft.

SIX REASONS.

REASON ONE: Marty Schottenheimer...Wait wha...?

Most Marty haters hated him because he stuck with his lousy QB and lousy OC for the entire season. As Marty later showed with SD, he had a plan that took time. Had Idiot boy not grabbed his shiney new Spurrier Toy, Marty would haev fixed THOSE ISSUES the next year.

NO WAY the skins contend this year. so they rebuild the Skill guys now, and go heavy into linemen next year.

REASON TWO: They suck at acquiring receivers. By drafting three of 'em high, the Infinite Law of Typing Monkeys Theory increases the chances that one of these guys, at least, will be outstanding.

REASON THREE: They got at least one OLman who should stick. He's a #3 pick and huge and versatile. Buges will coach him up. Mebbe Boatman or anotehr FA will stick, too.

REASON FOUR: Hmmm. Tyson, the DB sounds intriguing. And Horton sounds like a Special teams monster and designated hitter.

REASON FIVE: They DIDN"T TRADE away any of next year's draft picks!!! The Best news yet.

REASON SIX: If it totally blows, maybe NOW Snyder will see thru cerrato's shorcomings and hire a REAL GM.

Lay off on JLC!! Don't like what he writes, go the f$## somewhere else!! You bunch of little B####$$ cryin' all the time. Hiding behind your keyboards.

Bong that!

Blanche will be fine, I love that dude! I actually wish he was HC! and Zorn was O-Cord...

But whateves, we'll know around November 31st!

So, we'll see if this TE we picked has poor work habits or whatever.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 11:30 AM

Do you think a guy's work habits might improve if you raise his salary from zero to $1.7 million? I know mine would, though probably not by the full amount.

Not "at the FA level" you bad typing idiot "at the FO Level"

JLC, was there anything about the Redskins draft that you actually liked?

It just seems odd that most draft experts are giving the Redskins a good grade while you are tearing them a new one.

Nothing wrong with looking at it with a critical eye, but your argument would hold up better if you also outlined what you liked about the Skins' draft.

the consensus:

wawawawawawawawawawawawa
"JLC talks bad about my Redskins..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"We did draft well..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Your hate is getting old, JLC..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Why don't you cover another team Jasno..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Why didn't we get a pass rusher..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Fred Davis???"
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
I don't like our picks vs. "What do you know about drafting" vs. "Mel Kiper is clueless when it comes to drafting" to "If Mel said we did well, then I have to agree with him..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"Look at the Giants..."
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"7-9"
wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa
"8-8"
wawawawawawawawawa
"9-7"
wawawawawawawawawwawa
"4-12"
aaaaaaahhhhhhwawawawawawawawawawawawawawa

Campbell will not have time find any of these slow receivers that they drafted.

Posted by: why | April 28, 2008 11:34 AM

And last year he couldn't even see the little runt receivers who were shorter than Snyder.

Could someone get Smiley a helmet and a drool cup, please?! He must have left them on the short bus this morning.

Jason-
I doubt F. Davis (TE) will have as big of an impact as C. Campbell (DE). We just need some warm bodies at the DE that are under 30 and could surprise us.

Let's play out the Davis pick. Best scenario- he is a stud, but what do we do w/ Cooley? 2 TE sets? That takes Sellers off the field who is already a stud.

If we drafted Campbell he'd at least be a run stuffer that we need! Let's face it, the NFC East requires a loaded defense (one that we don't have right now regardless of how great our new WRs are).

Lay off on JLC!! Don't like what he writes, go the f$## somewhere else!! You bunch of little B####$$ cryin' all the time. Hiding behind your keyboards.

Bong that!

Posted by: Smiley | April 28, 2008 11:35 AM

dude, your name is Smiley. Chill out.

new 2nd tight end...
i sure will miss the awesomely potent force of collins to yoder.

anonymous friend at 11:35am, I can't say for sure that my work habits would improve if you raised my salary by $1.7MM, but I'd be willing to try.

Would I still have blog privileges?

-Nate in the PDX

Vikings signed Henderson?

REASON SEVEN: I'm a deuche.

J-Lac is the death of a bright idea and a good day.

Re: Colt Brennan

There's a lot of baggage and there's also a lot of potential. Skins are taking a gamble on a 70+% completion QB whose numbers may be entirely a product of the run and shoot system, his accuracy and football intelligence, or some combination of the two.

He probably won't make it or will bounce around the league for a couple of years as a backup/emergency QB, but that's what happens to most 6th round QB selections who are not Tom Brady. Had to get too worked up attacking the Skins FO about this pick.

Adam

Nate, dude, I think the $1.7M is to compensate you for cutting the blogging down to two hours a day. They'd probably go to $2.0M if you'd give it up altogether, buy your agent would insist on getting it as a signing bonus while they held out to make it an incentive.

And last year he couldn't even see the little runt receivers who were shorter than Snyder.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 11:38 AM

Funny how Brunell and Collins didn't seem to have that problem. And the same "runt" holds the franchise record for receiving yards in a season. Please stop with your idiotic statements. If you're going to analyze/criticize, try to use some valid arguments.

Lets stop with the C Campbell talk, the guy is fat, slow and week he is going to get pushed all over the field, plus he is a 3-4 guy incase you have'nt noticed we run a 4-3.

Jla no football for you. Stay with Hockey.

Any player you F*** pick was not picked before you. So using you twisted logic all picks are for players that dropped into your lap an must suck. Vinny dropped down because he knew there guy was not going to be picked at 21 - that is smart not stupid.

The TE seemed a reach.

The only real issue is that we did not take a DL in the first four picks.

Problem no every down DE (on the board) who could stop the run and rush the passer. Big and slow, small and fast. We have lots of small fast DL.

Also we may trade Moss or ARE for a need so the story is not over.

one argument I am not buying is that Vinny/Dan are obsessed with the flashy pick over solid football picks. Picking the punter was not flashy, popular, but it did feel a huge need with the best punter in the draft. I think vinny/dan are learning, they had a laspse in judgement but the Bengals bailed them out.

got TE Fred Davis for free.

Posted by: the_squire | April 28, 2008 11:11 AM

He wasn't free. They gave up their third round pick. The Falcons used it to take a WR, Harry Douglas. But the 'Skins could have gotten a TE (Craig Stevens), the beast S that the Ravens got (Zbikowski) or a good DT or OLB.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 11:18 AM

Probably right on that, but it does give Campbell and extra target on certain plays in Zorn's offense against NFC East defenses.

Interesting NOTE is that the TE Marcus Pollard from Seattle, Zorn's old team was a free agent. He also used to play for the Colts. He just got signed last week. Why didn't the Skins make a play for him????? Then we could have used the Fred Davis pick on another player.

I looked at the players selected right after Fred Davis....we could have had one of these guys if the Skins picked up Zorn's old veteran TE:

48 - Fred Davis TE (USC)
50 - Calais Campbell DE (Miami)
52 - Quentin Groves DE (Auburn)
54 - Jason Jones DE (E Michigan)
59 - Mike Pollack C (Arizona St)
60 - Patrick Lee CB (Auburn)
62 - Terrence Wheatley CB (Colorado)
63 - Terrell Thomas CB (USC)

So, yeah...if I had the keys, I would have got veteran to pair with our Pro Bowl TE Cooley...Marcus Pollard would have fit that bill with a veteran minimum salary...then used the Fred Davis pick on a more pressing need like Defensive/Offensive Line or Corner Back.

My 2 Cents

Also we may trade Moss or ARE for a need so the story is not over.

Posted by: mul | April 28, 2008 11:48 AM

We will never trade them because of the cap hit. Not to mention that there's not much market for either of them. They will both play out their present contracts and become free agents.

USC is not in the affluent suburbs of Los Angeles. It is on the edge of the ghetto (South Central). Glamorous it isn't.

I knew it! mul's a DANBOT!!

I tend to think it wasn't that bad a draft for the Redskins. I would have gone with one receiver and picked up more linemen, though. I'm not quite as high on the team's performance as Mel Kiper, but I think it was solid.

Psps,

The great Moss and ARE you defending had 5 touchdowns last year. Moss has some kind of injury every year and so does ARE. I am not bashing them but do not make it look like we have two all pro's at WR.

anonymous friend at 11:44am, I would imagine the boosters would kick in something extra to make me go away. I'm listening...

-Nate in the PDX

Was Brennan THE QB they wanted?

Was Brennan THE QB they wanted?

Posted by: Tony | April 28, 2008 11:55 AM

No

The homers are out in force today. It's not JLC who has disappointed fans and run the worst front office over the past 10 years. That's the Redskins. So forgive JLC if he hasn't bought into another season of Redskins hype.

Cali Guy, Cowherd was talking about the players' backgrounds, not the school location. (I agree that one visit to the Coliseum was more than enough for me.)

I do think, though, that part of his argument was that USC guys are more coddled than U-Miami guys, saying the U-Miami athletic facilities are notoriously run-down and they never sell out their stadium and etc.

Again, it was a typically broad, specious argument made by a guy I loathe, but it was related to one of our draftees, which is why I followed up about it after corky's comment.

-Nate in the PDX

+++ I love theories like this! Colin Cowherd, man does he suck.

So, we'll see if this TE we picked has poor work habits or whatever.

-Nate in the PDX++++

If he sucks so much why were you listening?

I think that USC THEORY is hooey, but he can be entertaining, funny and right on, too. I listen while on my walk and switch back and forth between him Dan Patrick and Stephanie Miller.

Stephanie loves the redskins draft, by the way.

I wish everyone would stop bashing Jasno. What would you really have? A Redskins yes-man? One hand clapping? Snyder's blog?

Maybe I don't agree with everything Jasno writes but he is committed to giving us a "non-column" view from an unbending, unapologetic lens. I appreciate that.

And you know what, he's probably right. We didn't get the DL that we needed. And that's a major problem. I'm guessing we'll address it in next year's draft (along with the Oline) but when Jasno writes that the NFL is a game won in the trenches, he's not just blowing smoke up the collective tail pipe. There are plenty of example in the NFC East alone to bear that out. And it is totally accurate to point out that, ONCE AGAIN, the Skins went against the grain of commonly accepted wisdom and we've all seen how well that turned out in the past.

That being said, I still like getting the 2 WRs. I like the trade down. I like the DB. I even like the Punter. I just don't much like getting another TE and a QB who probably wouldn't have been drafted (or could have been had in the 7th) when we had real needs on the Dline.

But the problem ain't Jasno. The problem is in the Front Office and that's not gonna change any time soon.

now im no expert like the rest of you, apparently because i have a job, but it seems to me that all vinnydan did was pick the top position players available...
2WR's-among top 3 in draft
TE-best in draft
G-best in division I
P-best in draft

Seems like if they had the chance to take the best player in the draft at any position, no matter the need, they went for it. In other words, given the choice of taking the best TE or the 5-6 best DE, they took the TE. This is even if the DE was more of a need and indeed even if the DE>TE as far as who is actually worth more as a player.

I'm not sure if this is a good idea or a bad one, but it's certainly an interesting concept.

Great Broadcasting Moment of the Weekend: Watching TheCindy react visibly to the mention of Herman Edwards, Head Coach of her formerly-beloved Chiefs.

squire, we haven't had terrific luck with FA TEs to complement Cooley over the past few years, have we? Haven't we signed a couple of dudes who didn't work out? Fauria and someone else?

I have to say our luck drafting "receiving TEs" has been pretty good... Jamie Asher, Stephen Alexander, Chris Cooley. Three hits in like 14 years! Sweet.

-Nate in the PDX

Agree to disagree.

I love it - the draft played out the way it did because DanVinny wanted to give the hamsters something to chew on for the next several months - what other reason could there be for the picks they made?

If we would have picked up OL and DL or DE's and a WR, I wonder what the post would have been about? Should I guess:

"While the redskins bolstered their lines, they neglected their most pressing need at WR with an aging receiver corps only time will tell if this draft was a success. One receiver may not be enough to help them considering the injuries that has plagued the current corps".

Blah!!! Everything positive that you say JLC is followed by a "BUT". Stop it already.

Psps,

The great Moss and ARE you defending had 5 touchdowns last year. Moss has some kind of injury every year and so does ARE. I am not bashing them but do not make it look like we have two all pro's at WR.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 11:53 AM

kmdp,

All I'm saying is the exact same argument can be made for the offensive-line. What makes you so certain that Thomas and Jansen will make through the year, but Moss and ARE will not? Again, it comes down to what the team feels is more important, the lines or the playmakers? It's obvious to me that both Snyder and Cerrato value the latter. That's not the way I think a football team should be built.

And ARE has had one injury in his 6 year career (or however long he's been in the league). It just happened to come at a time when every other WR on the roster was hurt too. Just plain bad luck. He is not injury-prone from 1 injury.

If you have a high draft pick, you do not dive down to get a player of need. That's IDIOCY.

Take the best available, work him out a bit, and then if you like, trade him!

Davis is the perfect example. We have Cooley, but Davis has more value than any lineman had at his position. If the Skins choose, they could keep him, or if someone needs a TE, they could trade the dude for picks next year or a player this year. Same with Kelly. Or, if Kelly works out, another WR.

I'm THRILLED the skins drafted two WRs. We didn't have a TD from a WR last year until five minutes after the season was over. If you don't say that's worth a couple of picks, I don't know what you're smoking. Especially with Zorn's offense coming in.

JLC, man, people say don't come to this blog if we don't like your angle. That's bull. This isn't the JLC blog, this is the Washington Post blog. That's the reason we come, and that's the standard you have to live up to. If you want to find reasons to be negative, do it on your own time. When it's legit, it's welcome. When it's every single post, especially in the face of common sense, and lacking any insider information at all, it gets really old, really fast.

Hi all. It reads like a 60/40 split - in noise and abuse terms at least - in favo(u)r of the Skins draft. That's got to be a win for the FO this year. I suppose only time will tell from here.

I guess the first milestone in these guys' careers is making the actual roster (not the 1850 guy one) so you can pick your personal favo(u)rites and cheer them on through the camps now.

I hope that the 'just a guy' factor is minimised and they get a chance to contribute.

Anyone wondering if Vinny picks up the phone to call Parcells, oops sorry, Jeff Ireland now? I'm thinking the chance of Taylor getting traded anywhere are receding fast now, they won't get the 1st they want and if they don't get a 1st rounder, why bother?

corky, I'm only in the car for about five minutes, so I grab whatever listen is available. Sometimes it's Czaban (yes, we get his syndicated show in PDX) and sometimes it's Cowherd and sometimes it's the Mike & Mike Show. Usually a few minutes are tolerable and sometimes there's Actual News.

What can I say, it's my only regular exposure to sports media aside from the interwebs.

-Nate in the PDX

Next year's 3rd for Jason Taylor!

Redcoat--

Do you drive around Northern Virginia with a license plate that declares you "1 DOLFAN"? Or are you just #2 Dolfan hereabouts?

5 mins in the car? get a bicycle... i thought you northwesterners cared about the environment.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/shannonboatman.html

Let's take the bright outlook. Maybe J Soup and these new weapons will be able to outscore the rest of the NFC East. Since every other team in our division seems to be trying to bulk up their defenses, we take the opposite approach and bulk up our offense and hope that we can implement a new offense and successfully outscore the very solid defensive teams. After all, Offense wins championships, right?

JLC is wrong.

Why did the Redskins only blowout one opponant last year and constantly find themselves in very close games? Because it was shown last year that we needed more weapons on offense. Portis can not do this alone. When our opponants know were going to go to El or Cooley we become too predictable and we needed young talented players to take the heat off our current players. I refuse to believe that an offense that scores alot of points, doesn't help our defense as much as adding a DLineman would.

++++Let's play out the Davis pick. Best scenario- he is a stud, but what do we do w/ Cooley? 2 TE sets? That takes Sellers off the field who is already a stud.++++

back in the day a guy named Gibbs used to occasionally feature THREE TE sets. Seemed to work out okay.

Hey ZORN is making the burgers, he gets to flavor the meat.

If he doesn't want TWO pass catching TEs on the field at the same time, chances are Davis would have been passed over, even by dolts like Vin and Danny.

Come on this will be a HELLUVA offense. TWO TE's will demand safety or CB help, as LBs can't cover them alone.

FIRST DOWN

Portis at RB, two TE's WRs are Davis, ARE and Moss.

NEXT DOWN:

Portis at RB, Cooley, ARE, Kelly, MOSS and DAVIS receiving.

NEXT DOWN

Sellers RB TWO TEs Kelly and Moss

Now how do you cover that?

Run a hurry up NO HUDDLE and they have to cover that with a BASE DEFENSE...or a NICKLE, which opens up the run.

This will be an EXCITING offense.

Yeah, agree, and I wish it were that simple, azskin, but the bike route would be more than twice as long... also it's usually dark and sometimes rainy and I'm, what's the word for it?, lazy.

Hey, I take mass transit half the time, so there's that.

-Nate in the PDX

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/og/devinclark.html

"But, once again, the Redskins raised eyebrows around the league with their approach."

Hmm and Mel Kiper rated us in the top 3 highest. There was only one team higher than us and that was the Chiefs. The Browns tied us... hmmm - Raised Eye-Brows you say?

Mel Kiper:
"Washington Redskins: GRADE: B+
They traded out of the first round and still were able to get three offensive weapons in the second round: wide receivers Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly and tight end Fred Davis. Chad Rinehart is a versatile offensive lineman who can play guard or tackle. In the sixth round, Georgia Tech's Durant Brooks was the first -- and only -- punter drafted. He has a strong leg and should compete for the starting job (30 of his 65 punts were 50 yards or longer). Hawaii QB Colt Brennan went in the sixth round. He isn't very big, but he has some ability. What hurt Brennan was his performance in the Sugar Bowl and the Senior Bowl practices, and the system he played in, which allowed him to put up big numbers. Safety Christopher Horton will be a good backup and special teams player. The only thing the Redskins didn't get was a pass-rushing defensive end."

The reason we had only two touchdowns out of the wide receiver position had more to do with the QB, and the o-line than anything else.

If I'm not mistaken, Todd Collins was the one to throw that first TD pass of 2007.

Having these big wide outs is nice, but only a part of the equation. What happens if, when our lineman start to drop like flies again?

What then?

Do you drive around Northern Virginia with a license plate that declares you "1 DOLFAN"? Or are you just #2 Dolfan hereabouts?

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 12:05 PM

Not me anon, but I think I have seen that vehicle on the Dulles toll road. When I used to commute regularly it always surprised me how many cars I'd see with Fins stickers.

I would think all Fins fans qualify as #2, don't we?

you make this team sound like it was 1-15 last season.

please quit.

you suck.

and "Nate in the PDX" - you suck the worst. Please leave.

"Moss and Randle El remain effective starters."

This quote from somewhere up above would cast doubt on the Redskins drafting in the 2nd round, IF IT WAS TRUE. However, at no time in 2007 were Moss and ARE effective starters at the same time. Injuries plagued both players for most of the year. There is no guarantee that the same thing won't be true again in 2008. To not draft accordingly would have been foolish. What good is an offensive plan and playbook if you can't use them?

Drafting wide receivers was smart. Single coverage of WRs/playmakers is going to have a dramatic change on the offense. Twin TEs who can catch are going to bedevil opponents. Opposing safeties and CBs are going to look stupid sneaking into the box when there are twin 4.4 receivers going downdield. (Moss and Thomas). Joe Gibbs wishes he could have had this draft. It would remind him alot of the days of Monk, Clark, Sanders, Didier, Warren and others.

It will be nice to not have to depend on Thrash and McCardell in 2008. Thankfully they were available for part of 2007. But in 2008, there has been a significant upgrade. If all the draftees work out perfectly, then it will be a problem to be dealt with later. Until then, try enjoying an offense that FINALLY has playmaking options.

I don't know why you guys come on here and b!tch about JLaC's blog. That's like me posting on Fox News about them being too conservative. If you don't like his analysis, go the f*ck somewhere else (like back to ES). He's the one talking to the league sources.

Current List of Undrafted Free Agent Signings
Posted by: PennSkinsFan on Monday, April 28th, 2008
Here you go, what we know for now ...

Offensive Line:

OG Kerry Brown, Appalachian State

OT Devin Clark, New Mexico

OT Shannon Boatman, Florida State

C Kyle DeVan, Oregon State

WIDE RECEIVER

Horace Grant, St. Olaf

SAFETY

Kevin Mitchell, Illinois

CORNERBACK

Matterral Richardson, Arkansas

DEFENSIVE LINE

Dorian Smith, Oregon State

What happens if, when our lineman start to drop like flies again?

What then?

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:10 PM

We've got it covered. With two stud TE's there are plenty of targets for Soups.

corkczar,

FIRST DOWN

Portis at RB, two TE's WRs are Davis, ARE and Moss.
xxxSo here we run cooley and yoder as TE's, Davis as a wideout?xxx

NEXT DOWN:

Portis at RB, Cooley, ARE, Kelly, MOSS and DAVIS receiving.
xxxAnd here 5 reciever spread with the TEs acting as recievers? Or are they still working as tight ends?xxx

And as long as you're making up formations, who not use Thomas?

Byner left.

Jla has no sources; everybody knows that.

you make this team sound like it was 1-15 last season.

please quit.

Posted by: Please quit | April 28, 2008 12:12 PM

Hey 1-15, that's MY team's claim to fame!! We're even going to see if we can give it a run for it's money again this year.

And anyone bashing Nate should hang their head in shame.

Jla has no sources; everybody knows that.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 12:16 PM

Jla needs no sources. He has his own little bitter mind to rely upon.

Sources are wayyy too much work.

hey,

kiper handed out 1 A grade and 3 B+ grades...and we were one of them. so the moves made sense that we made.

no team walks away w/ all their needs met. it all comes down to the RFAs...to start adding youth and depth.

I said no WR at 21.

They listened, kinda...

Stunning, how some many commentators are praising the Redskins and yet Jason's punching away again. His negative spin gets old sometimes.

Jason, you can't build a team with one draft anyway. Does it really matter where they start? Sure, addressing the lines should be the first priority, but maybe they didn't like any of the guys that much.

If I run into any of you Nate on the street, Lord help me...

Nate is cool poppy!

I've got to go along with the jlc bashing. Did you see the story in this morning's paper where the Skins were ripped for taking CB Justin Tryon in the 4th Round?

"At least two teams had Tryon graded as a fifth-round pick, league sources said."

Considering cornerbacks were flying off the board and even the mighty Patriots took a corner (Terrrence Wheatley) before his graded time, why give the Redskins all the grief? And who are these so-called league sources you keep quoting? I'd bet they are Ravens and/or Eagles officials. What was the Ravens record last year? Did the Eagles finish ahead of the Skins and make the playoffs? I must of missed it!

If you want to bash the Skins, it should be for taking Colt Brennan in the 6th round. If you saw the Senior Bowl, you know no NFL team should have drafted this guy. According to Vinnie Cerrato in his interview on ESPN, the Skins were just taking the best talent on their draft board and had Brennan graded higher than the 6th round. If that's true, you need to fire the whole scouting department and start over! Vinnie, maybe you can sell that sh-t to Dan Snyder, but I'm not buying it! You could have traded down and taken Brennan with the last pick of the draft! If head coach Zorn is as busy as jlc says (and I believe him), he's not going to have time to coach Brennan to the extent he needs it to just make it as a 3rd-string NFL QB. I'd rather Zorn spend that time with Campbell who is actually going to get the lion's share of playing time.

But apart from Brennan, I like what the Skins did in this draft even though they did not get a d-lineman until late.

I love that you guys call JC = Soups...

The drafting of 2 WR's and the signing of Jerome Mathis sounds like Randle El is the odd man out.

You dont draft 2 taller WR's and not start one of them over ARE. Not in this offense.

Thanks for the constructive criticism, Please quit. Duly noted.

You, though, you're doing a heckuva job. Keep on truckin,' brother!

-Nate in the PDX

I meant Nate bashers.

If I run into any of you Nate bashers, Lord help me.

still early out here on the WC.

For what it's worth (2 cents retail value), here's my take:

Great move by the Skins to parlay that 1st rounder into two 2nd rounders and more. I almost believed they knew what they were doing.

Great pick in Devin Thomas. Top receiver on most draft boards. Great value. Then things got crazy.

A tight end in round 2? I know you have to get more depth at the position, but with your second pick? Horrible decision, regardless of whatever the draft board says. I wonder what other voices were talking to Vinny on Saturday. You can't tell me there wasn't a quality lineman on either side of the ball worthy of taking at that spot.

And then Malcolm Kelly? Questionable character aside, Limas Sweed is likely to be the better player. And that's just putting aside the fact that you don't get 3 guys who essentially serve the same purpose in the same damn round. How many years of mediocre pass rush do we have to suffer through before someone in the FO realizes we need to address the D-line? It's like the CPU on Madden made the picks in the second round.

This ruined what had promise of being the best draft in years for this team. I've said it a million times: you build a team from the line of scrimmage back. And once again, the Skins have put all their fortunes in the wrong position.

Second rounders should start for you. This team just spent 3 first day picks on guys who won't start this season (barring injury), and likely not next season either.

And let's stop killing JLC over constructive criticism of the Skins. That's his job. If you want your beat reporter to slurp the team and give you fluff pieces about how great your team is even though they do NOTHING on the field to warrant it, read the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

Agreed on mowing down JLA, Brownie. His post brings up a number of key points, and no spelling mistakes this time either.

"You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft."

Amen...

"But to me you look to fortify your trenches when you can, and especially if it's needed to the extent it is in Washington."

Praise...

:Again, all play dependent positions - if the line and the QB and the running game aren't right, your stable of receivers ain't going to be doing much, no matter how good they are."

Darn tootin'...

I like the way the draft played out. Yeah, it would have been nice to select DE Merling with the 34th pick, but he was already gone... As a consolation, they selected the top ranked WR; which coincidently was the highest position of need for the Skins and possibly the only opening available for a new starter.

They might have lost Merling in the trade, but it did allow them to pick up the top ranked TE in the country -- Fred Davis -- who was the best receiver at USC last year. The WCO utilizes a 2-TE set for short yardage and goal line formations. I think defensive coordinators will have a hard time defending both Cooley and Davis. Both are big, catch the ball, make positive YAC, and block well. Davis should also help the running game -- I highly doubt we'll see too many 8-men-in-a-box defenses after they are burned by the TE formations. BTW, Yoder is a good backup TE -- the Skins require at least three TEs on the roster and the 7the round pick from last year (Ecker) will have some serious competition.

The Skins were able to pick up Kelly with their original selection at #51. Good job! Some people had the Skins picking him at #21. His highlight films reminded me of Art Monk! He looked pretty smooth catching the fades, outs, and crossing routes. I suspect he may be the starter next year over Thomas; joining Moss and ARE in the three WR sets.

In the later rounds, the Skins selected possible (future) backups at RG/T, #3 CB, SS, FS, and QB! All positions of need. The only reach might have been the DE Jackson, who could be destined for the practice squad, since I suspect Wilson is a better player at his point.

And finally, you have to love the punter pick. He had 68 punts inside the 20 yard line in TWO years. When was the last time we saw the Skins hit a 76 yard punt from the end-zone? And I'm not talking about Frost kicking one 20 yards, then rolling another 30... This guy has some serious hang time. Speaking of Frost, he is a below average punter who lacks consistency. He was also a liability holding kicks -- particularly on trick or bungled plays. Hopefully, the Skins can use one the QBs or ex-QBs (ARE or Portis) as a holder this year.

We have good O-Line depth as shown last year we played with two backups the entire season. We also added a good player in the draft. What we do not have is any depth at WR. I think the O-Line will be very strong this year even if someone goes down because the backups played alot last year.

Another way of looking at the draft is that the Redskins drafted as if they were a team with no holes. When Pittsburg took the RB in the 1st round everyone praised it because, all things being even, the Steelers are awfully close to the Super Bowl as is and a second RB is a luxury they can afford (and will help).

But does anyone here really think the Redskins are close to the Super Bowl? I know, I know, we beat the Giants and they won the whole thing. Never mind that the Giants team we played featured an Eli Manning throwing the ball all over the field and about 50 dropped passes.

My point is, I look at our team and think that the playoffs is possible. We've got the right peices. But I don't see us as Super Bowl material just yet. Too many holes, too many older players, too many injury concerns. We don't have the luxury that the Steelers have to take a redundant, if top, talent. We have little depth on the Dline and we needed an infusion of youth and talent. Didn't happen.

I will admit that I have no idea whether these are the right picks, although I can understand the logic. Time will tell. The only thing that concerns me from Jlc post is whether the Redskins are stacking their draft board because they inflate the ratings of receivers vs. linemen. That's something that may be a valid criticism and Snyder and company need to look at in their self-evaluation . [This is not a negative statement. Everybody has biases. You could just as easily stack your draft board for DL which wouldn't be good either...something that someone like Marty Schottenheimer may have done].

Chris Samuels made it through 2007 relatively unscathed. The odds of this happening again are not real good.

Jon Jansen, well... My man is coming off two major injuries.

Kendall has arthritic knees.

That guy Wade took up primary residence in the training room last season, alternating between the hot and cold tubs.

Rabach, our center, for whom we have no bonafide backup, had a rough go too.

you suck

Anyone else think DannyBoy and VC thought the Eagles would pick Fred Davis at #49?

I also wonder if we originally planned on picking Calais Campbell at #51...only to be beat to the punch by Arizona at #50.

Kmdp,

To argue that out O-line is deep is a stretch.

Many JLC supporters here who think that HE is the reason for this blog. The WaPo knows that they will get the hits on this blog even w/out JLC. What they are mad about is that the Skins have effectively shut them out. So they have this negitave agenda to try to turn fans against them.

"eyebrow raising"?? This was a good draft. What I want to know from all of you JLC supporters are the names of the DE/DL picks we should have selected. All I hear is we should have gotten a stud DE/DL. Give me their names.

Hey Chia Pet,

It is deeper than the WR position.

I applaud the move. We drafted the best players available. I dont see a problem with that. With the logic of having to many players, I guess that means teams should not have quality backup quaterbacks?

Colt Brennan sucks because of the Senior Bowl?

Isn't that like grading a pro player on a single performance at the Pro Bowl?

Brennan looks to have tons of upside, and with a coach like Zorn, could be at least a quality backup.

Curzon,

They do not know any names because like me and you they were watching the draft on the sofa, not working for an NFL team.

"Eyebrow raising" doesn't mean "negative" or "awful". It just means some people have looked at the Skins draft and said, "hmmm". Jasno said it could work out. But pointing out that there is legitimate criticism circulated about the draft strategy shouldn't be itself criticized.

You pretend to think that you know what the WaPo thinks about this blog and Jasno in general. Now you're blowing smoke up our tailpipes. Jasno does a good job. The blog is booming. Why would the Post even consider changing him?

Must be this guy, from ESPN.com...

At just 259 pounds, Groves isn't big enough to hold his ground when teams run at him. The opposition will target him whenever he's on the field. However, he could make an immediate impact as a situational pass-rusher. He is very quick around the corner and shows great closing speed once he gets a clear path to the quarterback. Although he hasn't developed wide arsenal of pass-rush moves at this point, he has the athletic ability and upper-body strength to do so in the future.

Probably not this guy, also from ESPN...

Campbell has great size for a defensive end and he's a decent tackler, so he has the potential to develop into a run-stopper. He also has long arms to get his hands up and knock passes down when he doesn't get to the quarterback. That's important because we don't see him getting to the quarterback very often. Although he's an adequate bull-rusher, he doesn't have great lateral agility or closing speed.

I agree. Those who are critical should give the name of the impact D-lineman they would have selected and with which pick. This isn't Madden. The Redskins can't just create the prospect they are looking for.

There wasn't anybody available in Rd 2 better than Carter and probably nobody better than Daniels. You are arguing they should have selected a DE that they don't expect to even play (in fact, that they HOPE doesn't play). Instead they drafted two WRs who will be on the field every time there is a 4 wide set (there will be lots of that) and a TE who can go out every time there is a two TE set or if they flex Cooley out in the slot (both will happen a lot). These are good picks guys. There appears to be a plan.

My typically half-assed, uninformed doubts about Brennan can be summed up with the following: Timmy Chang, Ty Detmer, Andre Ware.

But that's countered by the fact that I'm a big fan of his great-grampa Walter. Big, big fan.

-Nate in the PDX

In 2007, time after time( hear Cindy Lauper singing,) opposing QB's carved up our secondary like a Thanksgiving turkey.

In week 12, Bruce Gradowski was the culprit.

What was done in this draft to address our needs at corner and DL?

I've seen Kelly play every collegiate game and he will be a nice addition. He may not be the fastest receiver, but has great hands and is able to get open. Excellent addition with him and Devin Thomas are receivers will be set for years.

Calais Campbell was there. Quentan Groves was there. Jason Jones was there. All DE.

You can argue about their talents, but don't suggest for one moment there weren't legit Dline prospects for the taking when we took the TE.

Colt Brennan just had hip surgery.

That doesn't sound good. Anyone know the details of that injury?

Hey Chia Pet,

It is deeper than the WR position.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 28, 2008 12:44 PM

Agree with chia and brownwood. the only reason it's deeper is because the FO decided to let loose the vets from last year (Caldwell and Mccardell). When ARE and Moss went down, Mccardell/Thrash/Caldwell played just as admirably as Heyer and Fabini did on the line. And remember, Heyer and Fabini were FORCED into action, because there was nobody else after Jansen, Thomas, and Wade went down. We almost had to bring in Alexander at one point. And those two (Fabini/Heyer) had some serious growing pains through the season, which were eventually punctuated by having Patrick Kerney eat us alive on the right side of the line in the playoffs. To say that we are deep on the o-line is a definite stretch. Just because they started last year doesn't mean that they SHOULD have been starting.

17 TD's by WR's in the last TWO SEASONS.

Doesn't that say enough??? There was a need for two wr's, not just one.

The key to a good draft? Getting guys that make it in the NFL. Sounds simple, but its obviously tough. Plenty of #1 picks never work out well, others are so-so players. In a lot of ways its a numbers game. Select 2 guys and hope 1 works.

Since I can't judge talent from the draft, my comments are limited to the positions selected. On that, I think the Skins just missed. The OL line is the biggest need since you'll need to replace 3 starters in the next few years (Kendall, Jansen and Thomas) and the depth is modest. And OL usually need 2-3 years to develop. DL is always a position of need since most teams rotate players and go 6-7 deep.

LB was thin. WR is also a problem and you can justify a WR pick, though its been notoriously difficult position to predict if the player will make it as a pro (heck, Jerry Rice was the 3rd WR picked in his draft class).

But its hard to justify the picks of 2 WRs at the top of the draft (I could see 1), TE, punter and QB. Skins should have stuck with WR, OL, DL and LB.

If I run into any of you Nate bashers, Lord help me.
Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 12:22 PM

-- I have a pair of Nate bashers right here!

Chia,

We drafted a CB in JT Tryon who projects to a starter. Even JLC admits Doughty is a starter in this league. Laron is sick. Springs is still very good, Smoot is adequate, and Rogers was developing well before the injury so who known.

By the way, we had the seventh best pass defense in the league last year. Are you sure you aren't thinking about 2006?

Homer's next door neighbor on the other side, the one opposite Ned Flanders?

Nate Bashers.

The Skins are going to sign 12 more undrafted FAs today. That should cover the existing holes -- backups at LG and C -- and additional depth at DE, DT, and LB.

I think the publicized DL issues were just draft deception. Clearly they planned to take Merling if he was available, but the defense was pretty good last year. As a team the Skins were ranked 8th in total defense, 4th against the rush, and 16th against the pass. That was better than both the Cowboys and Eagles; and only one position lower than the Giants.

Could they use a backup and potential replacement for Daniels? Yeah, but we have no idea if that player isn't already on the roster or FA radar. Campbell was available at #48, but evidently his previous DL coach wasn't that high on him and there was a lot of discussion that he's only suitable for a 3-4 defense in the pros. I guess we'll find out in the future if the Skins missed any DE talent that was available after the 48th pick of the draft this year.

Mike,

Stop it with the "we has the such and such ranked this and that last season" talk.

Did you watch the same games I did, in 2007, and in 2006?

Nobcentral - the question is were any of those guys worthy of a second round pick? The answer is no. They took a TE because he was a second round (some say first) talent. You dont take a 3rd or 4th round DE in the second round (and pay 2nd round $$ for them). You just don't.

Teams that draft for need DO NOT WIN.

I don't understand the Fred Davis pick. Skins just paid Chris Cooley a ton of $s, Todd Yoder (and Glen Koslowski) seem to be capable backups, and Mike Sellers (remember him?) could even fill in a bit here. Even if Fred Davis turns out to be a great player, short of a trade, I don't see how this significantly helps the Skins

Guess we'll see how things play out in 2008/2009

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:40 AM

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 28, 2008 8:55 AM

Im guessing that the FO wants to have that A. Crumpler mismatch with Davis's size and hands. This can only help C. Cooley get open more, something we ALL want. Cuz once Cooley gets the ball, he's hard to bring down.

They also have 2 Wr's now, instead of 1 to try and cultivate.

Lets not forget the year the consensus was that we needed DT help and it turns out we had found talent with Gholston and Alexander.

Same thing on the OL with Heyer. Our experienced coaches know what they can't coach. Im sure they have it all under wraps. I'm gaining more and more confidence in Vinny C.

HAIL!!!

Chia, its a good snapshot. OUr secondary wasn't that bad. Put it this way, if the football fairy (ROMO) came to me today and offered to guarantee the 7th ranked pass D next year rather than take our chances I would take it in a heart beat. I bet you would too.

The 2007 Redskins pass defense was suspect, at best, and the pass rush was anemic, with occassional signs of life, but NOT when it mattered most, like in Seattle.

OK, that is some serious Kool Aid drinking Sirls...

When you say Kelly's highlight film reminded you of Art Monk ... well, those are rose colored glasses. Of course if Kelly catches 1,000 passes for the Skins ... I'll be the first to say you were right ...

Jason - your statements - "You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft" - is a good example of why you sit on a couch with a pen. ANYONE can second guess AFTER 2 years of looking back and say so-and-so was available.

The Redskins for a change have drafted 10 players - where at least 8 of them will be on the roster on opening day.

JLC you really need to move on partner. Everyone gives the Skins a positive grade yet you continue to bash them.

JLC is just using his contrarian point-of-view to enable him to parlay this lame blog into something else soon in some other city. His thinly veiled attempts to slant everything to the negative is so obvious it's laughable.

Everybody else I've read throughout the internet have applauded the Redskins draft this year but jlc keeps rehashing and crafting his views such that no matter what picks were made he slams the skins. Now I don't like every pick that the skins made but to be so one-sidedly bitter and negative shows how agenda-driven this clown is.

Mark my words, he will be onto other things soon as he is looking to "Parlay" this gig into something better. We will then be given another wp schlub who will begin bashing anew. Can you say nunyo?

JLC, you're a tool. Why don't you use your mind sometimes instead of spouting the wp company line.

Eek, I didn't realize I reacted quite so visibly. I was pretty down on Edwards last fall ("Herm the Germ," I frequently muttered as I held my head in my hands and wept bitter tears). I'm prepared to give him a second chance now.

Considering that all of the DE's that I mentioned ended up going in the 2nd, I'd say they were considered 2nd round talent. As to drafting for need vs. best player available, there's obviously a relevant debate there. But look at the Jags. They got no pass rush against the Pats and Brady went 26-28. So they drafted to DEs. They identified a need and went after it. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

That being said, it's not like any pick is guaranteed to work out. We've already seen criticism that the TE was late to meetings and was considered lazy by the USC coaches. True or false, who knows. Maybe he'll turn out to be a total stud and I'll have to gladly eat my words. But I saw the Pats game last year. We got demolished. No pass rush and the best QBs will pick you apart. That's what's happened. I'm with the Gibbs, Giants, Parcells school of thought on this one. You build your team from the trenches. And the last 15? years the Skins have not done that. I worry about our team getting over the hump from good to great without better line play on both sides of the ball.

(And, as I said previously, I have no problem with the WRs. I only object to taking a TE we don't need and a QB who would have been there in the 7th.)

Why all the raves for the trade-downs? We traded down three times and ended up with one more than our origianal 9. A 1 a 3 and a 5 for two 2's and a 4. What's so great about that? At best it's a wash!

"In week 12, Bruce Gradowski was the culprit."

9/19 for 106 yds.
a 19 yd. drive for a TD
a 2 yd. drive for a FG
a 9 yd. drive for a FG
a 2 yd. drive for a FG
a 29 yd. drive for a FG

all before halftime.
perhaps turnovers were the story?

A B+ grade from the schlubbs at espn just means we got quality players, it does not mean we drafted what the team needed the most. I think most would agree that building a teams starts with your lines. The skins are stuck in neutral every year because they think they are close to contending, they're not. We need to start all over with the rebuilding process at that means getting young at all positions, not just WR/TE.

Bottom line, if 5-6 of the drafted players become solid contributors, it was a good draft. If 3-4 becomes starters, it was a good draft. If 2 become Pro Bowl level players, it was a good draft. If 1 becomes a HOF, it was a good draft.

I'm not thrilled with the positions they picked, but the real answer is '?'

Take a look a Kelly's highlights on hailredskins.com:

http://www.hailredskins.com/index.php?paged=2

touche, cload.

good point on that Bucs loss.

crow eaten, but still think we would have benefited from a better pass rush, in any event...

Brennan had a slight tear of his labrum. Yes, there's one of those in each hip as well as in each shoulder...ball and socket joints...Priest Holmes tore his and the same surgeon fixed him up.

Hey cload,

Since you have the stats on that week 12 loss to the Bucs...

Who was responsible for those costly turnovers?

Thanks, Cindy.

That detail on Colt's hip injury does not make me feel much better.

Colt is younger, though. Perhaps he'll heal up better than Priest did.

Serious injury, nonetheless.

I know you would whine if we picked only one receiver and it turned out to be a bust. I would rather use TWO second rounders and find one stud receiver than trade TWO first rounders for chad johnson. No thank you. Isn't it way too early to criticize? So, lets say we picked a DE instead of Kelly. Would you be able to guarantee that the DE wouldn't be a bust? At least by drafting two WR we increased the probability of success for at least one position.

Jasno - dont become another Pasquerelli - by trying to pass off your oponions/prejudices as if the rest of the world is saying it ... as in "But, once again, the Redskins raised eyebrows around the league with their approach.."

Most of the so-called 'pundits' have actually been praising the Redskins draft.

Man.. where were all you skins lovers yesterday.. all i heard yesterday was supporting jlc, bashing the picks and hating.. now all I see is bashing jlc for agreeing with you all.. so which is it? also, if you read his articles vs. blog posts - they are generally well balanced and mostly devoid of subjectivity. Blogs are *supposed* to be opinions..

While not a fan of FO efforts in the Snyder era, I do think he actually is doing everything he can to make the team a winner (unlike in Cincy, say) - wish he was less control freak/FFL'ish and would get a real GM in to run, but that didn't work out so well with Marty, either did it? It's his team, he can do what he wants and I won't fault him for trying hard.. may critisize for his approach or methods.. certainly NOT a guy I'd ever want to work for, but he is trying..

Definitely gotta be concerned with some decisions made - wideout was/is a need, but they do need OL/DL help and Secondary too - shouldn't have used all 3 top picks on ONE position given the glaring needs at Safety/CB and OL/DL - but can understand if no real studs you take the best available - most draftniks like Mel, etc. basically said after the top 3-5 guys on DL/OL no one stood out.. and no stud WR so trade down made sense, but can't believe a comparable DL/OL guy wasn't avail when they took Fred or Kelly... but I'm no expert. So in defense of JLC I think he's just posting his concerns/thoughts on the process but also saying you won't really know for 2-3 years if any of these guys pan out (or the other guys JLC talks about either)..

At least by drafting two WR we increased the probability of success for at least one position.

Posted by: bobby | April 28, 2008 1:18 PM

And drop the probability at the other position to 0. I guess it's what you prefer. Would you be satisfied if only one area of need was improved from last season?

We averaged 20.875ppg last year, our offense was so bad for most of the year... if we up that average from 20.875 to 25... It drastically changes the outcome of last season. 4 more wins.

I think our offense has taken 2 steps forward and our defense will take one step back... what does that mean?

10-6

I'm going to defend the Davis pick-up. A lot of you seem to forget that TE was basically the only position we could get to score for us in the red zone, but after a few weeks EVERYONE in the league knew this, and Cooley was triple covered in that area. Now we have possibly the best TE in the draft from a school that faces tough competition regularly. Davis should take some of the heat off Cooley near the endzone, and with his size will provide decent support in the run game.

Should we have gotten a DE? Well, had Campbell been there at 51 maybe, but otherwise we didn't compromise or reach to get a player. A lot of the DEs drafted yesterday will be cut in June/July/August anyway, and we can take a look at them then, or otherwise build through FA, but I'm happy with who we did draft. There's lot of talent left in the undrafted kids too... Defensive end isn't a flashy position usually, so it's not quite as easy to predict long-term success, but it looks like we've already contacted guys we can coach up and groom to be role players if not more.

Sirls, I seem to recall Monk burning the best DBs in the NFL, making critical 3rd downs, catching in traffic and blocking CBs to the ground.

And you refer me to Kelly's practice footage? With no defenders? And it reminds you of Monk?

Sirls, please send me some of what you are smoking, my job review is coming up and I want to give some to my boss :)

I'll just say the FO is leaving a little too much to chance for my taste.

I expect that Zorn and the FO realize that they've got to make offense the priority, since it will be completely retooled.

This is not your daddies Redskins that that they are building here. And maybe that's why I'm having some trouble with it. Not big trouble, but there is a lot of risk ahead in 2008.

We might win 10 games, we might win 4.

Everybody here is bashing JLC for supposedly bashing the skins with his "raised eyebrows" comment. Seriously, how many people here didn't have raised eyebrows after the Davis pick? A TE in the 2nd round? We didn't even have TE on our radar. And then a 3rd pass-catcher just 3 picks later? Come on now. You guys just love hating JLC.

I'm thinking a guy that young shouldn't be tearing his hip.
Back to the Cheeves....this is the 25th anniversary of TODD BLACKLEDGE.

"You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft"

Do you do any actual research or reporting JLC? Look at the last say 5 years of the draft the ONLY DE you have heard of and has any serious impact from rounds 3-6 is Jared Allen. 1 guy in 5 years...sounds like a sure thing to me. Sorry I pulled this from the top secret site www.nfl.com. I know that is too complicated for you to find and do research on.

Eek, I didn't realize I reacted quite so visibly. I was pretty down on Edwards last fall ("Herm the Germ," I frequently muttered as I held my head in my hands and wept bitter tears). I'm prepared to give him a second chance now.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 1:07 PM

I think you're being very kind to Herm "offense killer" Edwards, Cindy.

He inherited an offense with arguably the #1 TE (Gonzalez), #1 RB (Johnson) and a 4,000yd a year QB (Green) and in only two seasons transformed them from one of the most fun to watch (as long as you didn't watch the defensive side of the game) to a 4-12 team that couldn't buy a touchdown.

I was sort of disappointed that he left the Jets as he was taking them on the same downward trajectory until he left, managing to waste the best years of Curtis Martin in the same way that he will with LJ - until he trades him I suppose.

It requires quite a special talent to be that bad as a head coach. Great guy, really bad coach.

"I think our offense has taken 2 steps forward and our defense will take one step back... what does that mean?"

"10-6."

--------------

Really?

Love the various draft opinions....lovers and haters....no matter on which side you fall , you gotta wait to see how it turns out...given the camps and preseason you will hear and see which guys are making an impression (good or bad) from there over the course of next year or two (in some cases) you will know if we found some guys who can play.....its all about assembling as many good players as you can...never fall in love with the guys on your team...they are all replaceable with (few exceptions) and the idea of a good FO is too replace them, so as your building a team BPA is a good thing.... since as i have said many times i don't see a position were we can't use an upgrade getting three pass recievers who had first round grades in the 2nd sounds ok with me ( for now).....its an offensive league, to be a consistent contender you need to score mid 20's or higher .....been since norvil since we been able to do that....coaching and QB...you guys know my mantra....it all starts with that, then you have something to build around for next 10 yrs, thats where the line, o and then d and all the other pieces that you guys are correctly clamoring for come in ...so that you can be a complete team that contends......

I guess no one liked the DL, S and LB picks from the past two drafts?

Let's see -- with limited draft picks -- the Skins discovered four starters in FS (Landry), LB (McIntosh), DT (Montgomery), and SS (Doughty). They found situational players in DL,OL,ST (Alexander) and DE (Wilson). Plus backups and depth with T (Heyer), DT (Gloston), LB (Blades), CB (Westbrook), CB (Eubanks), and DE (Buzbee).

Notice a trend there -- with the exception of Heyer -- they are all 1st or 2nd year defensive players who should continue to improve.

Do you do any actual research or reporting JLC? Look at the last say 5 years of the draft the ONLY DE you have heard of and has any serious impact from rounds 3-6 is Jared Allen. 1 guy in 5 years...sounds like a sure thing to me. Sorry I pulled this from the top secret site www.nfl.com. I know that is too complicated for you to find and do research on.

Posted by: Sec 126 | April 28, 2008 1:25 PM

trent cole, justin tuck. do some more research before you bash others.

Thanks, Redcoat. He's a very nice guy; can't he kill someone else's team?

I agree that the O-Line and D-Line were glaring needs that needed to be addressed, but six offensive lineman were drafted before the 21st pick... two more reaches were made after that in the first round. We just missed out on Merling and Laws (technically Campbell too, but I was not sold on that guy anyway) by a pick or two in the second.
I'm not sure what people wanted them to do. I certainly did not want them reach for guy just to say they tried to address the position. All problems cannot be fixed in one draft... let's hope we have better luck in the '09 draft.

i agree with building through the lines, but u have to remember how many early picks on both OL and Dl turn out to be a bust.

We have two old, experienced line coaches(Blanche now DC), that prefer working class guys. Tough, smart, dudes who have strong motors. Let them do what they've been doing. JB did good with Heyer last year. Yes he's still developing, but he did good overall. Alexander is another versatile gem.

So, when they have some guys that the current administration has been cultivating, it makes perfect sense not to load up on lineman. And instead, take shots at skill players early, filled depth with 4, and 5 and 7...got the best punter! A longtime problem that we couldnt address cuz we never had any extra picks. Throw in a 3rd string QB and speed rushing DE, with ST help from the S's...

The only need they didnt address to me is OLB. Maybe the have something in mind or those two UFA's have potential...

@Chia Pet

Just opinion... so yes really, that is my opinion...

While I have been reading this blog for a couple of years now, I have never bothered to stick my nose in it. Today seems like a good day. It seems to me that JLC has been more than correct in reading the FO as a bunch of idiots. Having said that, I believe the FO is starting to turn from Danny's Fantasy Football Team to slowly becoming a true ownership. And I do mean slowly!!

I completely see the need for some WR targets because they weren't scoring in the Red Zone, not to mention the health of the only two productive receivers. Furthermore, everyone has bashed the drafting of a second TE, which would defintely needed for a 2 TE set in Zorn's WC offense. I agree that Yoder had some moments of brilliance last season, but I don't believe he can do what Cooley does day to day.

Finally, I believe that this blog is for JLC to write his opinions, whereas his column is for the facts. Everyone needs to just get over themselves. If anyone here were experts, they wouldn't have time to write in this blog. They would be working in the Redskins FO.

Redskins | Team signs W. Gilberry
Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:17:18 -0700

Josh Buchanan, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports the Washington Redskins signed undrafted rookie free-agent DL Wallace Gilberry (Alabama). Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Redskins | Team signs D. Marquez
Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:15:53 -0700

Josh Buchanan, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports the Washington Redskins signed undrafted rookie free-agent OT Darren Marquez (Southern Illinois). Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Help me out. A couple of people have said that Thomas/Kelly wont be starting? Is this just a matter of semantics as far as the team will only be starting 3 receivers, or what gives?

Are some people really thinking that either Kelly or Thomas or Davis wont be contributing to this team this coming season? Unless they're injured, I cannot fathom this scenario.

I guess I'm done with the whole, good picks / bad picks routine. It is what it is, and there is no changing it now. Lets see how they do once the games get started.

THIS WAS A GOOD VALUE DRAFT with probably the LEAST AMOUNT OF TALENT IN ANY DRAFT IN RECENT MEMORY!!! SO LIMIT YOUR RISKS BY ADDING PICKS!!! THATS WHAT VINNY DID! I've never been a Vinny fan, but he did a good job. Instead of Merling ( graded as a mid 1st rd'er) they picked up 3, THREE, DID I Say 3,... yes 3 picks that all 32 teams until last week had graded as 1st Rd talent.

I'm fine with the Skins picking up two WR's in the 2nd round. Both were considered 1st round material during the season. Slow times knocked Kelly's stock down. Jerry Rice was not fast and he managed to catch a few balls. Not that I'm comparing him to Rice at all, just that speed isn't everything. I'm a little perplexed with our "braintrust" though drafting a TE, Fred Davis with our second 2nd round pick, with Cooley just getting a big new contract. He will be a backup and with the new West Coast offense he will see time in the 2 TE sets. I would think that you hope to draft starters or kids to get significant playing time in the 2nd round not backups to All-Pro's. It's hilarious to read that Synder was out to see all of the top talent in the draft's workouts. What does this dork know about football talent? The only football he ever played or was involved in was video games I'm sure. What could he possibly offer as far as evaluating talent? ... "Ummm that guy looks big". Stick to writing fat checks. This isn't fantasy football, Danny-boy.

Cindy,

Are you still single?

My dad is on the market; great guy looking for a great girl...

After watching Kelly's and Thomas' highlights, I think Kelly is going to be the better receiver. He looked like a better route runner, and made gresat adjustments to the ball. Plus he was great on thr jump ball plays. Most of Thomas' catches were when he was wide open, or had just ran past the defence, wich is good, but given JC's past performances, Kelly's ability to make flowing adjustments to a pass will serve him well this year. Also, unlike Moss and ARE, it will be hard for JC to overthrow either of these receivers considering their height and leaping ability.

Thanks, Redcoat. He's a very nice guy; can't he kill someone else's team?

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 1:29 PM

As far as I'm concerned I'd be happy if he would split his coaching time between the Jets, Bills and Patriots. That would do me just fine!!

What did you make of the whole Jared Allen thing Cindy?

RichinFrederick? Jerry Rice wasn't fast? Are you really Darrell Green?

10 36 a.m. post brings up a good point.
"Last year the 'Skins averaged 20.9 points per game, tied for 18th in the league. Four more points per game would have raised them to ninth -- right between the Browns and the Steelers. New England was first with 36.8 and the Cowboys were second with 28.4."

We were ranked towards the top in RedZone scoring, but unfortunately, many were FG's and not TD's!!!! Now we have 3 2nd rd players to add as a RedZone threat!!! Height. Look at the Giants and Pla"s"tico!!!

I agree that Yoder had some moments of brilliance last season, but I don't believe he can do what Cooley does day to day.

Posted by: Saxatac66 | April 28, 2008 1:31 PM

Of course Yoder can't do what Cooley does. Few TEs have the pass receiving skills Cooley does. But Yoder is a blocking TE. That said, he made some memorable plays down the field in '07 and one wonders if they utilized him fully. Had the OL not been banged up we undoubtedly would have seen better production from all the ball handlers.

Do you do any actual research or reporting JLC? Look at the last say 5 years of the draft the ONLY DE you have heard of and has any serious impact from rounds 3-6 is Jared Allen. 1 guy in 5 years...sounds like a sure thing to me. Sorry I pulled this from the top secret site www.nfl.com. I know that is too complicated for you to find and do research on.

Posted by: Sec 126 | April 28, 2008 1:25 PM

You're an idiot.

DE taken in rounds 3-7 that have made an impact:

Brian Robinson, 4th
Robaire Smith, 6th
Adalius Thomas, 6th
Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, 5th
Derrick Burgess, 3rd
Aaron Kampman, 5th
Elvis Dumervil, 4th
Mark Anderson, 5th
Trent Cole, 5th
Justin Tuck, 3rd
Shaun Phillips, 4th
Jared Allen, 4th
Bobby McCray, 7th
Robert Mathis, 5th
Alex Brown, 4th

The list goes on.

See, there's this great thing called the internets and it has this top secret website called pro-football-reference.com that is extremely fast a revealing idiotic statements like yours.

To take one small step off my JLC bashing soap box I will say I love the pick of Colt Brennan and you all should too:

1) A young QB to add to the mix, but not enough pedigree to threaten JC or TC. Wow a skins team with a clear cut #1, #2 and #3 QB refreshing

2) He and his skills are different and no one knows if he will work out in the NFL. I would rather use a late round pick on guy who is either going to shock folks or be a bust...than a guy who is a way less talented version of the standard QB. We had that guy last year in Jordan Palmer. Same package as Carson, just not as good.

3) His strengths are quick decision making and release...sounds like skills that are needed in the WCO

4) We don't need him now...he can spend a year on IR or the practice sqaud. We will be fine with JC, TC and any schlub to carry a clipboard. (hey, hopefully LaCantreporta will be looking for a new job). Basically we need to just develop a solid back-up for 2010 when TC can't walk anymore...I can see him being capable of that.

Who was responsible for those costly turnovers?
Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:15 PM
From Skins @ Bucs:

1. On the first offensive play, Moss catches then fumbles. Returned to the 19. Three RUNS later, it's 7-0.
2. One false start, one incomplete pass, then on 2nd-and 15, Portis fumbles at the 25.
(Four offensive plays, two fumbles and one penalty, for those of you keeping track)
3. Campbell fumbles while being sacked at the beginning of the 2nd quarter.
4. Portis fumbles again at the skins 30.

First five series, four turnovers, all within easy scoring range, and the defense held them to 16 points.

Chia

I'm fairly sure Priest's surgery was BEFORE the year he set all sorts of scoring records.

Adam

Thanks, Cindy.

That detail on Colt's hip injury does not make me feel much better.

Colt is younger, though. Perhaps he'll heal up better than Priest did.

Serious injury, nonetheless.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:18 PM

For everyone who says that taking two receivers in the same round and building your team through "weapons" I only have two words for you...

Detroit Lions

I was kind of hoping that there were two words in succession that I would never again have to read up here ... Priest ... Holmes.

Jerry Rice was a 4.5-4.6 40 guy on the track but he played way faster. he is the poster child for football speed.

I think that's the point that Rich is trying to make.

Thanks, cload; very telling.

What conclusions can be drawn from that game, if any?

Jason Campbell (DC): Hey Jeremy, two questions for you. 1)How many TD's will I throw next year? and 2)Why do bad things happen to good people?

SportsNation Jeremy Green: (1:23 PM ET ) TD-wise, I don't know. I know no QB was happier to wake up this morning than Campbell. He has 2 of the best 3 WRs in the draft and probably the best TE. It's a new offensive system that everyone can learn together at the same time. This is a phenomenal draft for Washington. They are going to be explosive next year.

looks like people who know a little about football like our draft just fine.

I've always liked big WRs. The 'move the chains' guys with great hands are a huge part of success. But I've seen Kelly compared to both Rice and Monk on this blog. Both of those guys were very fast.

Of course, you can be SLOW and still be effective. John Madden once said of his top WR "you can time his 100yard dash with a calendar." And Fred Belitnikoff is in the Hall.

You've got to have a lot of abilities to be a successful WR, and that is why its been so hard to figure out which WRs are going to succeed.

I would hazard a guess and say a torn labrum in a hip is more serious for a RB who needs to cut and things of that nature than a QB who kinda just goes back, stands, and throws.

But I'm no medic and Colt is the running type isn't he? Well, I'm betting he never plays for us.

Even when doing the right thing the team does the wrong thing, im with jlc here, moss and randel el aren't marty booker and ted gin they are good receivers who had an injury filled year. By doing this your creating a separation of rookies and vets

Um, maybe its a semantic issue on the meaning of "contending" but I think the teams that make the playoffs in a given year are "close to contending." Some might even call the playoff teams "contenders," but I won't go that far.

The Skins have made the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years despite catastrophic injuries concentrated on specific positions (e.g., WR in 2005 and OL in 2007). The Skins are, at least, CLOSE to contending. We might argue about what pieces are missing, but they have clearly been doing a lot right the last few years.

SMC -- perfect smackdown

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-04-23-draft-gems_N.htm

Mel Kiper, who has dedicated his life to knowing the draft, and ALL things draft related, and is considered the FORE-MOST expert on things of a draft nature. ...

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 8:51 AM

I want to join the chorus (is there a chorus yet?) that suggests some credibility on the part of the Screaming Head, Mel Kiper. He has dedicated his life to knowing the MOCK DRAFT ... he is the FORE-LEAST expert on the actual draft.

I give much more credence to guys like Mayock, Pat Kirwan, or even the wise turtle, John Clayton.

Priest Holmes tore his labrum before he broke the NFL rushing crown. It was his neck issues that ended his career.

So if that is an indicator to Brennan's career trajectory you may be in luck!

I have no idea what Rice's 40 time was, but I live in the Bay Area and saw a ton of Rice. He was very very fast. Unless you are Darrell Green, Rice could blow by you.

But I'm no medic and Colt is the running type isn't he? Well, I'm betting he never plays for us.

Posted by: Nobcentral | April 28, 2008 1:44 PM

He has about three years to recuperate.

we finally have an offense with weapons and weapons with depth. Now when ARE and Santanna have their hamstring, toe, groin or other ailments we have weapons still. If Cooley ever gets hurt, we have a talented TE behind him and we had Ladell behind CP already. If I'm not mistaken we a returning our top 10 defense and our Oline has 4 strong backups behind a good starting 5. It was an incredible draft for us.

First five series, four turnovers, all within easy scoring range, and the defense held them to 16 points.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 1:39 PM

Overall the D was good last year. Especially against the run. If anything where we need help is on pass defense.

But let's also remember that the SB Champs/chumps' pass rush did not beat the Skins in the last game we played them. Our OL was not beat up by them.

And I would argue that the game against the pats was more because we were not playing very good on offense and gave our D way too many snaps against a very good offense.

Fine...some of those guys are good players that were overlooked, but even that list is full of some marginal talents, guys who do not actually play DE which was what I said or guys who were drafted more than 5 years ago.

okay so less than 15 sucesses in the last half decade...still no where near convinced that is the can't lose that your pal JLC feels it is.

Perhaps we can all agree that tearing a labrum is NOT a good thing?

Heal well, Colt, heal well.

This looks like the kind of draft that starts at the line of scrimmage. I'm not praising it, I'm just saying this might look like what Jasno might have been pining for ...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker#tab:dt-by-team|team-phi

Oline has 4 strong backups behind a good starting 5.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 28, 2008 1:49 PM

If by 4 strong backups you mean we have 1 young draftee along with 3 guys who struggled mightily last season, then yes, I agree with your post. And I still love how people love to rip ARE and Santana for injuries, but give a free pass to Thomas and Jansen.

Hey, I've been away from the blog due to waaayy too much work (and no fun). When did the registration requirements go away?

And I would argue that the game against the pats was more because we were not playing very good on offense and gave our D way too many snaps against a very good offense.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 1:50 PM

Well the answer to that ineffective offensive performance was not to draft more rookie wide-receivers. The answer would've been to get young O-linemen who can pass protect and/or open running lanes.

so 4 wide outs and 2 tight ends is going to be the new norm? we are going to have 3 rookie starters? we are going to have 2 rookies running consistent routes along side randle-el and moss? we are going to have a rookie tight end consistently stealing time from a pro bowler? wow, maybe jlc knows something i don't, but i didn't realize that 2nd and 3rd round picks were expected to be starters with significant playing time in their first year. i always thought most rookies took some special teams time and then contributed on an ad hoc basis, then maybe in their 2nd or 3rd year became starters. looks like the skins will be bucking the trend and starting 3 rookies.

Thanks, cload; very telling.
What conclusions can be drawn from that game, if any?
Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 1:42 PM

First, that you shouldn't try to draw too much from any one game.
Second, that was the worst half of football I can recall Saint Joe ever presiding over. And each time the Defense held, you sorta thought "wow, dodged a bullet there, we're still in it", only to be crushed by another turnover three plays later.
Third, JC threw two picks at the end of the game, both when we were in FG range. And Portis failed on a 4th-and-1 at the TB 4 in the third quarter. Just needed one of those to work out for us...
Finally, really, really, really missed having Sean Taylor at that game. Were he in Tampa, and not Miami.........

I'm THRILLED the skins drafted two WRs. We didn't have a TD from a WR last year until five minutes after the season was over. If you don't say that's worth a couple of picks, I don't know what you're smoking. Especially with Zorn's offense coming in.

Posted by: Skudge | April 28, 2008 12:01 PM

Amen, brother! I'm liking this draft the more I look at it.

And I would argue that the game against the pats was more because we were not playing very good on offense and gave our D way too many snaps against a very good offense.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 1:50 PM

Good point.

Man, that game was brutal to watch; been trying to reconcile losing that game the way we did, playing the Gints as well as we did and the Gints beating the Pats in the SB.

Well the answer to that ineffective offensive performance was not to draft more rookie wide-receivers. The answer would've been to get young O-linemen who can pass protect and/or open running lanes.

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 1:57 PM

No, the answer to that was our scotch taped line learning to play well together. Once that happened, even with the continuing injuries, we picked it up later in the season.

jlc is a beast. why does everything with you little girls have to be the best or worst ever. think what you think but shut the hell up

Each week, Herm coaches a different team...hmmmmm....Jared Allen is a lot to give up (when I first heard, I threw up in my mouth a little), but I'm cool with it now. I also liked your Dolphins' draft, 'Coat.

And I would argue that the game against the pats was more because we were not playing very good on offense and gave our D way too many snaps against a very good offense.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 1:50 PM

The thing that stuck out most to me about the Pats game last year was GG refusing to alter the defensive game plan and rush the passer. He just sat back in a deep zone and let Brady pick us apart.

No, the answer to that was our scotch taped line learning to play well together. Once that happened, even with the continuing injuries, we picked it up later in the season.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 2:00 PM

Only to get demolished in the playoffs. When it mattered most, in the biggest game of the year, it wasn't the "smurfs" who failed us. It was the offensive line. How this can be ignored, I have no clue.

etrod, agree with GG not making any adjustments in this game. Pats took advantage of what we gave them.

Same as bein inside the 5 yard line and sending out the jumbo package. Who did not know what we were going to run?

cload,

I hear that safety, Horton, we just picked up might be sleeper; one who hits real hard.

I think he injured quite a few people in college, and UCLA plays in a strong division.

Will he replace #21(rip)?

Not likely, but it would be nice if he was even 80% the player...If he turns out to be no better than Alvin Walton (3rd round pick, #75 overall,) that would be pretty sweet too; dude could hit.

Landry and Horton....

Ouch.

Pats game was the magic storm -- beat up offensive line encouraged the Pats to attack, Soup did not play well, but the strategy on defense was to just slow them down... if Smoot had been playing, and Rogers' knee didn't crumble within the first ten plays, then we might've had a fighting chance.
Once it got out of control, it got ugly.
And the only thing to do was stand there and take it like a man.
Or go for Brady's knees and never leave New England alive.

Only to get demolished in the playoffs. When it mattered most, in the biggest game of the year, it wasn't the "smurfs" who failed us. It was the offensive line. How this can be ignored, I have no clue.

Posted by: psps23 | April 28, 2008 2:04 PM

Give some credit on this to Collin's lack of arm strenth. What turned this game around with an interception.

I have to look at this as the glass half full and do not beleive that we will have the OL injuries that we had last year. And yes, the glass is half full with the kool-aid I drink.

For example on how to build a CHAMPIONSHIP team (not just a 1st round exit team)

2007 NE Patriots starting OL:

Matt Light - Drafted by Patriots in 2nd
Logan Mankins- Drafted by Patriots in 1st
Dan Koppen- Drafted by Patriots in 5th
Stephen Neal - Un-Signed FA by Patriots
Nick Kaczur - Drafted by Patriots in 3rd...

Anyone see a trend here? Draft your Offensive linemen well, groom them to be starters to protect your franchise quarterback. Then go out and get wide receivers once they have PROVEN that they can be productive in this league.

There is always one or two receivers drafted that prove to be "big time". Forget what the pundits say, about a draft being "weak" at a position. A draft board cannot measure a players heart. If one of the three recievers is big-time, the offensive lineman is decent, and one of the 2nd day players work-out, the skins did fine.

"For example on how to build a CHAMPIONSHIP team "

or at least a close second.

Each week, Herm coaches a different team...hmmmmm....Jared Allen is a lot to give up (when I first heard, I threw up in my mouth a little), but I'm cool with it now. I also liked your Dolphins' draft, 'Coat.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 2:02 PM

It would make a great reality TV show!! "Herm Screws Up: Dallas" or similar. Maybe the audience could vote each week for the team he could coach next? And maybe the NFL could have him coach the #1 seed in each conference when they get into the playiffs, just to level things up a little?

Seriously though, I extend my sympathies to you that this geneuinely good man (but horrible coach) is tinkering with the object of your NFL affections to such ill effect. Must make you pine for Vermeil all the more I guess: his KC team was flawed but so much fun to watch! They were always my 'second' team but I can't bear to watch them now.

I liked the Fins draft too Cindy, I think the top 4 were all immediate strong starters, though the rest seem more of the 'just a guy' types right now, but Parcells (and Ireland, of course) get paid big money to know so I'll put my trust in them.

5-11 here we come! It's uptown for Cosmo, baby!!

fair enough curzon. i like that kool-aide too. which is why i can't stand the people who constantly bash moss and ARE, like somehow those two are doomed to injury while jansen and thomas will magically come out scott-free. moss was a top-5 receiver in this league not too long ago, he has the franchise record for receiving yards in a season when he was the ONLY receiving threat and faced constant double and triple teams (in a franchise with two HOF WRs no less). he's not old, he hasn't lost a step, so the only thing holding him back is the same thing that's holding back thomas and jansen, injuries. you can't bash one without bashing the others (and for the record, this post isn't directed at you).

JLC, ignore most idiots posting on this blog. First off, I like your viewpoints due to the fact your not a redskin fan or a homer from the get go. I can take honest opinions, negative or positive. Quite frankly, opinions are opinions. My word(s) to you, keep doing what your doing - from my viewpoint its a fine job. And thanks for the coverage and your blog site.

Now my draft thoughts.

Wide receiver has been a weak spot for years. Look at the time and money wasted over the last five years. If this draft can patch that sore spot, so be it. I'm tired of making off season trades that don't pan out or mid season signings of tired beat up throwaways.

I would have liked to seen more cb signed and a lb or two drafted. We are weak at cb and I don't see this getting better. Maybe they sign a free agent, just not sure. If our lb hold up we're ok, but depth and age is a problem.

People say our offense will make our defense better, maybe. But our defense has to get 3 and outs, I just don't see it with our current cb situation. Springs is very good when healthy, Smoots is ok. Neither is 16-20 games a year type player. We need cornerbacks.

Overall, our draft was ok. We have too many spots to fill in one draft. You can argue either way (good draft/bad draft) but the glaring problems still exist. Mainly Depth and Age.

I think devoted veterans like Samuels, Thomas, Jansen, Washington, and Fletcher deserve a trip to the super bowl - I'm not sure they have enough time left for this rebuilding to take place.

Jason Campbell has to get better, our line has to give him time to throw, our receivers have to run good routes and get open and our rb need to get yards to keep the d off balance. Zorn is the key, good plays available, calling them at the right time and installing good game plans from week to week. Keep the defense guessing, do not get predictable in his offensive play calling. Score points....I'm hoping for 20-25+ per game. Probably not going to happen, best case scenario.

On Chris Horton:

UCLA -- This talented senior enters the 2007 season as one of the top safeties in the nation ... He had an impressive junior season, his first as a starter, and figures to be even more effective this year ... He is a physical player who HITS EXTREMELY HARD ... Also a major contributor on special teams who excels at harassing the punter ... A good open-field tackler.

http://uclabruins.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/horton_chris00.html

"A draft board cannot measure a players heart."

They actually do that at the combine... can't show it on TV, though, way too gruesome.

It takes 1-3 years to effectively grade a draft. Why are so many of you down on the skins for addressing a Big area of need on offense? We only changed one defensive boss and that was from Greg Williams to Greg Blatche who essentaily will keep everything the same only with less blitzing. How long did it take us for a receiver to catch a touchdown last year? Correct me if im wrong but it was like 6 games in. That's a sign that you need an upgrade at WR. Randle El, im sorry to say is a better slot guy. He is not a legit #2 receiver. We traded for B. Lloyd to be our #2 with Randle El being a solid slot receiver. Don't be surprised if Thomas or Kelly starts opposite Santana Moss this year. Know I love Sanatana Moss as a player I really do, but besides his breakout year in 05 what has he done since? Not much. In fact he dropped several catchable balls and single handedly cost us that GreenBay game. I question if 2005 was a breakout season or a form he cant return too, because he cant seem to duplicate anything close to how he played that year. Other than 2006 which was fluke, our defense has been top ten. Our offense has lacked for a long time. We got probably the two best receivers in the draft to help soup transition to the west coast offense and the best tight end in the draft in Rd. 2. Remember that Giants game with less than two minutes and we couldnt score from inside the 10 on four straight plays? Tell me that if we had Davis and Cooley plus Kelly, Thomas and Moss, on the outside we wouldnt have scored? I dare anyone to say we wouldn't have on four straight plays, hell Portis or Betts walk in untouched. In a couple of years when Moss and ARE slow down if both are still here, Kelly and Thomas could immulate Bouldin and Fitgerald in AZ. And one last thing, our offensive line has been a strong suite for a few years, common how common is that 3 starting lineman all miss time in the same year, it's not. Chris Samules is still one of the best in the bussiness and so is Jansen when healthy, Rabach is solid two. We should be able to get at least two more quality seasons out of the guys we have on the o0line now plus throw in Kendall,Fabini and Wade for depth, plus youngsters Alexander plus Heyer who was serviceable against some great pass rushers in his rookie camapaign. Would it have been great for the skins to get another guy opposite Carter who quietly posted 9 sacks last year and is under 30? Yes. Did the descent pass rushers on the FA market want ridiculous money and they werent even superstars? Yes. I liked Merling and Calais Campbell but i dont think we missed out on the next Reggie White or Michael Strahan. We have the next two years to draft and finish developing the trenches for the future, but why pass up that talent available. Check our past drafts, we do great job of finding solid talent late. Examples Derrick Dockery,Cooley,Golston,Montgomery, Doughty.

i think we took 1 too many recievers... but i think we're ok on the DL.. not great. we got chris wilson.. which i think can develop into real good pass rusher.

our offense should be better than the past few years.

guys seriously..everyone is going to have their own opinions about what should have happened and who we should have drafted. But the fact is by the time the skins drafted at 21 in the first round all the O-lineman with first round grades were picked over. I believe the moves they made were good. We kept our picks and filled some of the needed positions we had. Not only that we filled them with guys that have the potential to help out. I'd rather have that than them draft some DE's or OL's that miiiight be able to do something. Maybe all of you would rather go back to the days of wasting all our money and draft picks to bring in washed up big names on there way out of the league i.e Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Jeff George, and Mark Carrier

Chris Horton could very well save Vinny Cerrato's sullied reputation as an evaluator of NFL talent.

Let's hope!

JLC can write anything he wants here..after all, it is a blog, not an article, so if he wants to give his opinion, he can do so and we should grin and bear it if it isn't to our liking.

That being said, I respectfully disagree with him.

You can't claim the Redskins have needs at: OG/OT/DT/DL/S/CB/OLB/WR including the waterboy, and expect them to all be met in one draft, even with 10 picks - unless you want to undervalue your picks and take guys at these various positions just to say you addressed the need. The Redskins made a determination that they could do better by trading down when they saw all of their options at 21, and IMO they were absolutely right. Shoot, Merling was two picks away from being there at 34, almost leaving them the same decision to make (Thomas/Merling) 13 spots lower having added a 2nd round pick! Merling was gone though, so the Skins took the other option - Thomas, a guy that the majority of experts out there held as the #1 WR in the draft, a guy who many had going to the Bills at 11...with pick 34. Great value pick, and a need position.

Speaking of need position. There seems to be a back and forth of what is "needier"... the O and D lines, or the WR position. Count me for the WR position. Don't forget folks that we were bringing guys in off the streets last year to come in and START at WR last year, and that with ARE and Moss being so small, they are are more inclined to injuries...and they aren't getting any younger either. The OL, though older than I'd like, was still in better shape coming into the draft than the WR spot, and we address the OT spot with a solid 3rd round pick in Reinhart, a guy most people say is underrated. The D-line is more of a concern than the O-line IMO, but it's not the disaster that some make it out to be. Montgomery and Carter are solid starters, who both improved as the year went on. Golston is a capable backup for the aging Griffin, who does need to be replaced. Same with Daniels (replacement), since Chris Wilson seems to be more of a situational player. Still, the problem with DT and DE is they are such premium cost positions...you can't get top players at these spots unless you drafting top 15. Merling, however he may have helped, is not in all likelihood going to be a star - by all accounts he's a run stuffer who isn't much of a pass rusher. Now, he might develop those skills and turn into a pass rushing beast, but if this is what he is (the former), does it really address all of our concerns regarding getting to the QB and collapsing the pocket?

The CB pick is anyone's guess, since by the 4th round you just don't know. He's small and talks a lot of junk...like most corners these days. We'll see.

Both safties appear to be nice pickups given where they were drafted; again, we'll see.

The punter from Georgia Tech...bank on this: Frost is out of a job. This guy is the goods, and was worth a draft pick. He's got a major leg, and has had none other than the legendary Ray Guy working with him over the years. This may be the greatest upgrade on the team, and though an upgrade at P isn't sexy, it sure as hell is more important than most people think.

All in all, I would have liked to see them draft defense in the 2nd round, but have to acknowledge that the first wave of "good" D line guys were gone, while one of the top WR's was still sitting on the board at 51. I was curious about taking a TE, until I read about Zorn's wanting to use many 2TE packages, and this guys ability.

I give them a B+, with the thought that it would have been nice to address the D line in the 4th if it was reasonable to do so. Otherwise, I'd call the Snyder/Cerrato first draft a success. They took care of their new had coach, giving him some more talent to work with in his offense.

They'll have to address the D-line more effectively next year (and the O-line by that time too), but the truth is, there will always be weak spots - even on the best teams - as long as the careers of players continue to shorten as they seem to now, and as long was there is FA.

I don't understand how JLC cites the colts as the end all of drafting franchises, then ignores that they took WR A.Gonzalez(sp?) in the first round last year despite having Harrison & Wayne? Were they stupid for doing that?

Considering the health issues of Moss and the huge dropoff in talent after ARE, both WRs are a huge need. The good teams in the NFL (NE, Indy, Dallas, GB) can spread the ball around to 4-5 competent receivers. Last year we had 2. I think the strategy was fine. We'll have to wait and see if they picked the right players.

That being said all 3 2nd round picks were considered 1st round talent and a month ago were projected to be gone by #21. Finally, the redskins were able to use the draft to stockpile young talent. I am pretty happy with what transpired.

"A draft board cannot measure a players heart."

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 2:15 PM

---------------------------

Most salient post in the last 48 hours.

Amen, brother.

psp-

I'm not bashing Santana or Randle-El, both can play. But Santana has been injured and Hamstring injuries are pretty signifigant to speed players. That said, I think he can and will be effective. Especially with a big receiver who might just require double teams, leaving Santana 1 on 1.

I am definately not giving a free pass to Jansen and Thomas, either. The diffrence is that there are guys behind them who have shown they can play. When Jansen went down last year, Heyer came in and pretty much shut down Jason Taylor. Strahan's name didn't get called much in the 2nd Giants game either. Fabini took a while to get going but played well enough down the stretch but he I still worry about him as a backup guard. Hopefully the rookie can supplant him in the lineup.

To all the newbie posters out there:

No one in interested in reading a novel up here in RI, trust me...

2007 Giants Starting Defensive Linemen who led them to the championship:

Justin Tuck- Drafted by Giants in 3rd
Osi Umenyiora - Drafted by Giants in 2nd
Michael Strahan - Drafted by Giants in 2nd

On Chris Horton:

... Also a major contributor on special teams who excels at harassing the punter ...

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 28, 2008 2:15 PM

I hope he does well in straddling that fine line between "harassing" and "roughing."

By my count there were 31 defensive linemen chosen between #21 overall (our highest pick, from which we traded down) and #242 overall (where we selected a defensive lineman). In that span, we picked eight dudes who, conspicuously, were not defensive linemen.

28. Lawrence Jackson, DE, Southern Cal
29. Kentwan Balmer, DE, North Carolina
32. Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson
34. [Skins pick WR]
47. Trevor Laws, DT, Notre Dame
48. [Skins pick TE]
50. Calais Campbell, DE, Miami (FL)
51. [Skins pick WR]
52. Quentin Groves, DE, Auburn
54. Jason Jones, DE, Eastern Michigan
66. Kendall Langford, DT, Hampden
72. Chris Ellis, DE, Va Tech
77. Pat Sims, DT, Auburn
87. Andre Fluellen, DT, Florida St
88. Bruce Davis, DE, UCLA
90. Marcus Harrison
96. [Skins pick OL]
102. Jeremy Thompson, DE, Wake Forest
103. William Hayes, DL, Winston-Salem St
115. Dre Moore, DT, Maryland
116. Kenny Iwebema, DE, Iowa
121. Red Bryant, DT, Texas A&M
124. [Skins pick CB]
144. DeMario Pressley, DT, NC State
145. Jason "don't call me" Shirley, DT, Fresno St.
148. Carlton Powell, DT, Va Tech
151. Frank Okam, DT, Texas
152. Letroy Guion, DT, Florida St
167. Erik Walden, DE, Middle Tenn St
168. [Skins pick P]
180. [Skins pick DB]
181. Nick Hayden, DT, Wisconsin
185. Chris Harrington, DE, Texas A&M
186. [Skins pick QB]
190. Ahtyba Rubin, DT, Iowa St
199. Robert Henderson, DE, Southern Miss
208. Ervin Baldwin, DE, Michigan St
210. Brian Johnston, DE, Gardner-Webb
216. Landon Cohen, DE, Ohio
242. [Skins pick DE]

Sorry for the long list, just making the point that were D linemen available throughout the draft who could have -- could have -- bolstered our rotation at tackle or end this season. But we passed on all of them, every single one of those 31 dudes.

This just seems so strange to me, since (like a lot of you) I wanted to see us make D line one of our top priorities in the draft... all right, I'm done griping about this. Hail to 'em either which way...

-Nate in the PDX

Steinbog introduces the draft picks:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/

A highlight from Fred Davis' remarks, courtesy Cheeseboy:

"I was really excited to be a part of the burgundy and gold," he said, as Jim Zorn pumped his fist.
"I taught him!" Zorn exclaimed as the room broke into applause. "I was a little nervous because of those SC colors."

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET THE SKINNY ON THE UDFA's??????

Cindy, quick question for the newsroom -- what's the general consensus among the Post's sports staffers on the Skins' draft? What's the scuttlebutt, if any? Aside from J-La, I mean -- what opinions are bubbling up?

Just curious if the mood is general optimism/approval (like so many of the pundits being cited up here) or skepticism/disapproval (J-La).

Thanks!

-Nate in the PDX

psps, not taking anything personal. I like you am a passionate Skins fan and my opinion is just that. I am def with you on Moss.

Chia Pet:

I'm assuming I'm the targeted Newbie for this post.

I'll keep it short and simple then for the grizzled vets.

BONG!

PANTIES!

FIRST!

Snyder and Cerrato are the sum of all evil!

Shambingus.

There you go.

Signed,

Actually writing something worth reading.

I am simply saying this is the last time I read this blog. I have tried over and over again to understand but now I vote with mouse.................Goodbye JLC......There are other newspapers and blogs that cover the Redskins.............JLC is a Cowboy fan......

190. Ahtyba Rubin, DT, Iowa St

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 2:26 PM

Nate, your boy -- Tuba -- went to the Browns.

etrod,

that's a fair assessment. thank you for being logical. i personally don't see heyer as a playoff-caliber starting tackle in the future, but he does have a long time to develop and iron out the inconsistencies (like you said, great one game, then awful in another - e.g. vs Seattle). I just wish that Cerrato and Snyder would put more of an emphasis on the lines during the draft, rather than relying on finding the 1 out 100 undrafted FA gems to solidify those positions. drafting Rinehart was a start, but there is more than 1 position on the o-line that needs to be addressed (now for depth, and for future starters).

Post away Shaun, not everyone on here has the attention span of a figurative coked-up hamster.

I wish Dan Snyder would have listened to me on whom to draft, I mean I'm a fan, what more expertice do you need, I do my research, I troll blogs on what other people say we need and contribute by saying what I think we need, for the most part when not being a fan I complain about everything the Redskins do

I don't mind that we used our first pick on a young WR and our second pick on a young TE, especially considering our new offensive system.

What you do have to wonder about is taking ANOTHER received in the same round, when there are clear holes on other aspects of the team. You take 2 pass catchers, and hope that those 2 will be enough to fill your needs in the "throwing the football" aspect of the passing game. We should have then taken a 2nd round OL prospect to fill a need at the "protecting the QB and giving him time to find his new weapons" aspect of the passing game.

Redcoat:

Well, in that case, let me give you the breakdown of each individual player:

In 27 different parts.

I. Devin Thomas

A. Route Running Abilities

1.......

...oh, I'm just kiddin' around.

When everything is said and done, we won't really know what we have until September. This year's team will be great mystery before then, I think, with such an unknown talent....at Head Coach.

I gave the Redskins draft a B+...

Look, the whole draft is a crapshoot for ALL teams. You scout and pick the best player you think can help your team. Many of these guys still have to make the team. I was excited just to be in the draft and they held onto their picks. Face it, we have a new coach, with a new system which he has every right to staff with the players he thinks can help him win.

This team will get bashed no matter what they do. I've watched every snap for the last three years, I've mediocrity on both sides of the ball. Who knows if these receivers will work out but at least you give yourself a chance to develop them. Some of you armchair GM's don't look at the whole picture. You have Undrafted FA's to look at as well as post June 1 cuts. Some people only say we need a DE because somebody else said it. Those players, unless, you're a stud take time to develop. Who knows what Chris Wilson will do. If we got a DE then some fool would say we need a DT, or a FB for that matter.

Let the whole thing play out people...Let's remember, not one current WR caught a fade or a jumball (moss caught one, sorry)...

Summing up the Steinberg's sportsbog on the draft picks:

- Fred Davis is an amateur rapper with a basement recording studio.

- So is Malcolm Kelly.

- Nothing about whether Devin Thomas raps, but just to lump him with the other two (which would be to pick up where Lloyd, Brandon left off), Thomas will wear #85. [Take THAT, Chad Johnson!]

This year's team will be great mystery before then, I think, with such an unknown talent....at Head Coach.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 2:41 PM

Could be worse Shaun, it could be your week to have Herm Edwards!! ;-)

I wish Dan Snyder would have listened to me on whom to draft, I mean I'm a fan, what more expertice do you need, I do my research, I troll blogs on what other people say we need and contribute by saying what I think we need, ....

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 2:34 PM

Keep up the good work, maybe next year.

This strategy worked for me ... see the 6th round punter.

alright everyone, i've said my peace on this draft, and out of fear of being fired, i'm going to leave this blog and actually do some work.

there's nothing we can do about it, what's done is done, and we now have 10 more redskins to drink their flavored kool-aide. with moss, ARE, thomas, kelly, cooley, davis, portis, and betts, we may have the most diverse offense in the league. there are certainly no lack of weapons on this roster. if we get on the good side of luck with injuries, this will be one dangerous team for sure.

Sween, I thought that your was the definitive voice in the 'Fassell/not Fassell' debate also?

Influence like yours should be peddled on Capital Hill !

i personally don't see heyer as a playoff-caliber starting tackle in the future

How about giving him a little bit more time than his rookie season to come to this assessment??

I am with Redcoat....anyone bashing Nate should go back to Extreme Skins or whatever...with Redcoat Nate is about the most balanced one around...disagree is fine but this is a bit overboard.

I love Santana Moss when healthy, and adding these receivers doesn't mean trade him or he's out, the others, if they can play just give them another look. No one is afraid of 2 5'10 receivers.

Most people feel that the Redskins drafted fairly well -- but not as well as Kiper thinks. Most believe that taking three WRs was curious; they should have addressed line and secondary. Two late picks seem odd: Brennan and the punter. Do you need to draft a punter? And will Brennan really play here? I think one of the bloggers summed it up nicely with the post about the Patriots drafting linemen and signing receivers.

The Skins have signed these UDFA...... Wait no one will tell me anything at the park but yet I know what the coaches were saying about the draft? Dan Synder sucks and screwed up the draft!! He's taller than I am too!!!

I appreciate all the kind sentiments, but the bashing is actually fine with me -- I freely admit that, like Sgt. Schultz, I know nothing. Or very little. I go with my heart more often than my head, since that's the kind of fan I am. I deserve to be called out as an ignoramus and person of low football intelligence so forth.

Respectful disagreement usually makes for GREAT conversation up here. And the draft has spurred a lot of that, which is awesome.

It's disrespect for one another, mean-spirited provocation or dismissal of other commenters -- which is demonstrated in many different ways (and which I've shown numerous times, especially during my lamest "Barney Fife" period) -- which I don't like. I've tried to cut it out, and I hope everybody else tries to cut it out so we can spend our time on the good stuff, the fun stuff.

Anyway, hail to the blog, hail to the Skins, etc.

-Nate in the PDX

Cindy, what lineman were there in the 2nd round worth drafting there? Campbell is an athletic freak that should've dominated in college and didn't. Etc, etc. I'd be curious to find out how many starting o-lineman or d-lineman were drafted in the 1st or 2nd rounds. I bet it's less than half. I LOVE the punter pick. Frost is wildly inconsistant.

Cindy, yes, you need to draft a punter ... at least to stop the carousel of punters coming through this place (and to stop the madness that is the knee punting of Derrick Frost).

Also, this place says that the Giants, not the Skins, signed this Gilberry fellow ... and that the Skins signed the Iowa State QB, Bret Meyer.

http://www.theredzone.org/2008/draft/udfa/alphabetical.asp

Could be worse Shaun, it could be your week to have Herm Edwards!! ;-)

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 2:43 PM

LOL! Someone is going to see this, create the show and get rich. While we sit at Summers with Adam and Smack watching Man U and Arsenal.
What's the consensus on the other NFC East teams? I don't think the Gints or Iggles did much; the boys of cow had a pretty good draft. I like Felix Jones. The NFL needs more players named Felix.

Jasno I have never directed any comments at you before but dude you suck!! Last year the defense finished 8th in the leaague after losing their best player to a stupid senseless shooting, Rogers for the season, mcintosh for almost half, a rookie starting at safety, and smoot and springs were out how many games? The problem last year was the offense. How many three and outs did we have in the second half? Now we give Campbell someone to throw the ball to who isnt below 5 9' hobbling around with turf toe or a bad hamstring and all you can do is bit ch! Now we have people to throw to which frees up Portis, there is another tight end which opens it up for Cooley so he doesnt have a big spotlight on him all the time, and we got three projected first round picks in the second round! I think you are just bitter because everyone scooped you and knew who the Redskins were picking and the details of their trades while you were thinking about doodlebop or whatever the hell its called. Oh wait you did get one pick right even though it was in your head. Lighten up, drink a beer smoke a joint whatever but this drafts glass is half full.

I didn't say I wouldn't replace Frosty the Punt Man. I definitely would. But perhaps with an UFDA, er, UDFA.

I'm surprised some of the Art-ful/Hate-ful faithful at Extremes hasn't put its hitdogs on poor Jason for uttering words that don't always glow concerning the Dano Snydermen.

Keep up the good work, Jason (and polish your Kevlar vest and bomb shelter).

I agree with JLC- - taking three receivers with the first three picks was something only a no-clue midget owner/GM & his fetch dog Vinny would be capable of. The rest of the league laughs on (if not the extreme-nuts).

I looked at the other NFC East teams ... and my only thought was that Philly did what every dweller at the bottom of a division must do ... draft alot at the line of scrimmage.

Giants seem like they are trying to get a handle on their Corey Webster problem.

Cowboys? After he picked Felix, someone asked him for his next draft choice and when he muttered "draft choice?", someone thought it was a statement rather than a question. [Kind of a stretch for a Choice joke, but someday it will get smoother.]

Question: Are we (can we) still be in the Lito Sheppard sweepstakes?

But then we would've had to settle for the second best punter! Can't have that...

LOL! Someone is going to see this, create the show and get rich. While we sit at Summers with Adam and Smack watching Man U and Arsenal.

What's the consensus on the other NFC East teams? I don't think the Gints or Iggles did much; the boys of cow had a pretty good draft. I like Felix Jones. The NFL needs more players named Felix.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 3:00 PM

Well maybe I've established 'prior art' by suggesting it on this here blog but somehow I don't think that will matter. Anyway, I'd rather be sitting in Summers having a drink with you guys than being 'Senior Executive Vice Producer' or something for that show.

As a Fins fan I think the Grrls did well replenishing their stock of players that Parcells will come and take away later this/early next season. The Gints are presumably standing pat in expectation of a repeat or close to, and as Adam remarked previously, the Eagles seem to have devized some fiedishly cunning plan based around selecting exactly the same player (positionally and physically) 27 times - some sort of race of supercyborgs being created up in DelaPhilthia mayhap?

Cindy:

I know your post wasn't directed towards me, but I just can't help but comment on the Felix Jones thing.

Frankly, I don't get it. These are the things I hear all year this past season:

Marion Barber should get the bulk of the carries. Julius Jones isn't half the player Marion is.
Marion Barber is one of the best backs in the league.
Marion Barber goes to the Pro Bowl.

These previous statements CAN'T be true if a team feels it has to add another RB with it's FIRST pick in the draft. I understand bringing someone in for depth, but how can a guy be considered such a great back if he either:

A. Has to be run in tandem because you have to have a "change of pace" back with him, or the more likely

B. He can't handle a full workload because of his style of play.

I'm obviously biased, because of course I hate the Cowboys, but they just get over-the-top love for their players. Barber either isn't a complete back, because for me "complete" means taking the bulk of the carries and being a workhorse, or Barber is capable of that, and Dallas made a blunder taking a first round pick that should be sitting on the bench watching the game this year.

Though they somehow had 22 probowlers while bowing out in the first round, I still think the Cowboys had greater needs than another back.

I think the Thomas pick was a value pick. The picks for Davis and Kelly, however, were questionable given the other needs on this team. Any tight end here is going to be a backup to Cooley and Kelly carries some big question marks due to his knees and overall lack of speed.

Cindy, the thing about our new narcissist punter is that he has been labeled as the guy with the best hang time since Ray Guy (who also is a family friend and personal punting tip giver). This year, he will be competing with Norv Turner's punter-of-the-century, Mike Scifres, for the highest, longest, deepest punts in the universe ... ever.

As a 6th round pick, its called "with a cherry on top" ... and he's no Jordan Palmer.

This Day in Blog History, the Monday after the 2007 draft:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/04/the_d_line.html

So... maybe I'm carrying over D line concern from last offseason? I am awfully slow to catch on.

Also, we had lots of fun coming up with nicknames for our new safety tandem, in the wake of picking LaRon... almost brings a tear to the eye.

-Nate in the PDX

Why do they always take so long to announce their FA signings... so frustrating.

All I see so far are:
OG Kerry Brown, Appalachian State
OT Shannon Boatman, Florida State
SS Kevin Mitchell, Illinois
OT Devin Clark, New Mexico
OT Darren Marquez, Southern Illinois
WR Horace Grant, St. Olaf

I see some other prospects like Vic Hall (LB), Jermaine Dias (LB) and Sam Keller (QB) arent signed anywhere else yet....

Shaun, I'm betting that the Lord Jerrah Jones saw what the Gints did with their 1-2 punch running backs last post season and then decided that Felix would be his Ahman Bradshaw.

Who knows, "even a blind squirrel, etc. etc., like such as, maps...."

Um, all the morons bragging that Kiper gave us a B+. He gave the Giants draft last year a C-. Not to mention you guys are getting on JLa just for criticizing the Skins for not doing what every successful team in recent history of the NFL has done. Geez, he's such a whiny jerk right? (eyes roll)

Did you not read the part where he said that our own coaches were concerned about the strategy? Or the evidence he gave that Snyder is unhealthily obsessed with WRs?

What about the fact that he said MOST of the league had lower grades on Thomas and Kelly? I think he supported his argument pretty darn well. Better than you guys just calling him names.

Shaun, Marion Barber was who he was because of Julius Jones. They needed to replace Julius Jones ... and by doing it with another guy named Jones (you know, because Julius is a funny name, not like Felix), they can keep up with the Joneses.

Meanwhile, their owner is considering changing his own name to Jerry of Olay ... to keep his skin looking younger and more supple. [This gratuitous, ad hominem dig brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.]

Here is the list UDFA signings for the skins that I found

Redskins
OG - Kerry Brown - Appalachian State
OT - Shannon Boatman - Florida State
OT - Devin Clark - Florida State
S - Kevin T. Mitchell - Illinois
WR - Horace Grant - St. Olaf
OT - Darren Marquez - S. Illinois
DL - Wallace Gilberry - Alabama
QB - Bret Meyer - Iowa St.

Overall I agree with JLA.

The mistake in this draft was taking the TE instead of trading that pick + something to move up a couple and get Merling or Campbell.

erin henderson signed wit vikings

Hobbs:

I question the value of signing a way overaged center fielder with a ghost of a history and an apparent interal injury to a contract...but look how that turned out!

Hey Dan P., would you like some lube with that handjob you're giving?

Sween:

Aha! So in your opinion, does Marion deserve his "one of the best runneers in the game" status?

If he needs another runner to take time away so he can produce like that, then I say...NO.

I thought that the punter was one of the best of many good Redskins move in this draft. Ray Guy was drafted in the first round. Does that seem like a mistake?

Very risky trying to get a punter as a UDFA. Isn't that how we got Frost? And that whole carousel of losers before him?

Gonna have to disagree with ya jlc..
Got a punter to replace Derrick "shank the punt" frost.
3 big bodies to catch the ball so the smurfs can do what there supposed to!
one versitile OL if we stay healthy for 2 years with this OL as of now we can draft more in the coming years its not like this is the last draft of all time.
A Corner who if was 5'11 to 6'2 would be a first rounder.
2 safties which both were gambles.
and Colt Brennan ..wasnt tom brady a sixth rounder everyone doubted?

Shaun, I didn't mean be praising on Marion Barber ... but b/c RBs take so much wear and tear, I can't crap on a guy for having a guy who spells him. See e.g., Portis and Betts.

I wouldnt b surprised if the skins traded for a top de or dt. before the season

Can anyone say Jason Taylor

any word on whether Dan Connor (LB, Penn) has gone yet in the UDFA derby?

Kinda funny how most of the receivers that Dan Snyder covets in each draft turn out to be pretty awesome receivers!

I'm glad we finally drafted not only one but three of them.

We added three players that can all dramatically help our RED ZONE OFFENSE.

example: cooley, davis stacked on line with Kelly/Thomas/Mix running fade to the other side.

THEY CAN'T JUST EYEBALL COOLEY IN THE RED ZONE ANYMORE!! YEY!!! (Not that it worked anyway.)

We created a lot of option and depth in offense, we were too one-dimensional in red zone last year...this should fix that.

JLC, your ignorance is tiresome.

Dear Washington Post,

Please Can La Canfora

I'm a skins fan for life, but I'm tried of everyone hating or having a level of concern of Dallas players. Look, Tony romo is good. TO is good, Marion Barber is good. Does the media give Barber good angles while slurping? Yes.

I don't know, but disliking, or hating, doesn't mean you get completely out of touch with reality. These are good players, just turns out they play for the Cowboys. Get over it.

Wow, he really is jealous of Bram isn't he?

Sween:

Oh, I won't crap on Barber. To me, he's a very good back. Still, to spell a guy (5-10 carries a game) is one thing, ala Turner for Tomlinson.

It's another thing entirely when you alternate the carries 50/50, as the Cowpokes did last year. I just don't believe you can be considered a premier back if you aren't handling more than a 50/50 load.

We created a lot of option and depth in offense, we were too one-dimensional in red zone last year...this should fix that.

I think the west coast offense should fix this problem and not necessarily depth.

conner went in the 3rd to carolina

you are a negative nancy JLC, i hope whatever got up your ass dies so you stop being so negative

i'm not saying be a homer, but give some objective commentary THAT ISN'T BIASED AGAINST THE REDSKINS

SCREW YOU

The reason why henderson fell like he did from what i read was that his knees are done, he wont be able to last at all in the nfl

I'll ask again, who would you have drafted other than the receivers. Who is better? Who would we have taken other than the punter in the 6th? Everybody wants to bash the picks but give us an alternative. Jasno or Cindy or whoever, who is better?

I'm not sure if someone mentioned this before, we could have picked Calais Campbell with our second pick in round two, addressed a amajor DL issue and still picked up the TE from USC or Kelly with the teams third pick in the round.

With that scenario, the team could addressed almost all their holes.

I like the ZORN stamp of approval on this draft!

2 WR's
1 TE
1 OG
1 CB
1 P
1 QB

Thanks Jim, I pay an awful lot of money for season tickets( I'm the sucker I know!) and was planning on throwing them in the trash can...However I applaud you on this draft.

YOUR GUYS! Not Joe's or Allen's or Charlie's...YOUR GUYS!

Live on off your sword, Die of YOUR sword! I applaud you Jim.

and Jason, I thought you came up writing hockey? What do you know about football?

Hey G: JLC is still bitter that the Caps lost... You'd think getting the best available punter and significantly improving the WRs would cheer him up!

As usual JLC nails it. The gang who couldn't shoot straight strikes again.

Papken75,
Why did he slip to the 2nd round? Reading the measurables he reads like a freak. Not arguing just wondering why a guy with that athleticism is taken in the 2nd?

To the UN NAMED ONE:

Romo, Owens, and Barber are indeed good players. However, there is a considerable different between a good player and a Pro Bowl player.

There are a fair amount of "6-7 out of 10" players. Pro Bowlers should be a minimum of an "8".

I'd difinitely put Owens in the 8+ category, with Romo on the border (a little too inconsistent to be up there with Manning, Brady, etc.), but Barber, who apparently NEEDS to share carries down the middle? Good player? Yes. Pro Bowler? Hell no.

P.S.

Why get over it? I'd rather call it out for what it is: a nationwide fawning in the media which constantly gives the Boys a pass. For all those Pro Bowlers, and for all their hype every year, the Cowboys have won less playoff games than the Redskins in the last 14 years: and that's saying something, since we've won ONE.

any word on whether Dan Connor (LB, Penn) has gone yet in the UDFA derby?

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:28 PM

Panthers, 3rd round.

Unless Sween convinces me otherwise, I am really excited about the punter, Durant Brooks. He was another "value pick." Sports Illustrated had him going early fifth round. Maybe he slipped because of his 4.92 time in the forty?

Here's what one scouting service said about him:

Brooks put on a sensational show during Senior Bowl practices that NFL coaches are still raving about. Brooks stepped into his first punt of the day during Tuesday's session and sent it sailing. As the ball continued to fly past the other sideline and then over the head of Tampa Bay head coach Jon Gruden, Gruden simply looked up at the ball and asked, "Is that serious?"

The fact is, punts like those are not only serious for Brooks, but they have become routine. "Durant is a great talent," 49ers head coach Mike Nolan said. "I don't think teams are going to be able to sit around and hope he falls to them."

After Tuesday's practice featured the length of Brooks' punts, Wednesday focused more on directional and pooch punting drills. With the NFL scouts already aware of his leg strength, Brooks proved he could consistently down the ball inside the 10-yard line. "Everyone knows that Durant can kick the ball a good ways, but what's underrated is how incredible his hang time is," one scout said. "When you're trying to punt the ball inside the 20 it's all about hang time, and Durant does it better than anybody."

Can't wait to see the look on Frost's face when they start kicking together.

conner went in the 3rd to carolina

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 3:31 PM

i brainfarted ... i flashed back to an article about unpicked guys ... but it must have been unpicked after day one.

I have already been picked, too.

Two ways that Durant Brooks and Frost are opposites, from the analysis of Brooks:

Poised under pressure and will not let a bad kick affect his performance

Seems a bit reluctant to get involved in contact as a tackler, preferring to let others handle that job...

Of course he's not going to tackle people. Dude's a Georgia Tech graduate and all the idiots went to Georgia.

My take on the draft is this: B+. Get someone other than the whiny bastard for your 2nd WR; better yet get someone who can contribute on defense/OL instead of whiny bastard; and more picks when trading down - they should have gotten some picks next year with the numbers of picks they got this year in their trades. Other than that, because of the UDFA OL signings, I'd have to say this wasn't a bad draft in that it addressed most of our needs, including one we didn't originally perceive (TE).

I believe Heyer will be a dominant starting OL, but needs more time to develop. I don't know many OL when they get thrown into the starting role a year or two early who aren't inconsistent. I remember hearing the coaching staff saying he flashed some brilliance, which I believe will become consistently shown (the brilliance) with more coaching and experience.

I'd rather have us pick up a straight C, but we got a very versatile pick instead who Buges could train and put where he wants him.

Also, looking back on the past few years, our offense has been consistently annoying - getting to the 5 yard line and fighting themselves to get a TD. With this many weapons, if they don't I'll bury myself alive. Period.

I just don't believe you can be considered a premier back if you aren't handling more than a 50/50 load.

Posted by: Shaun | April 28, 2008 3:30 PM

It was Jones (J)'s ineffectiveness in the red zone which opened the door for Barber in the first place. Jones was supposed to be the running back for Dallas back under Parcells, but he couldn't close the deal. They then found out that using Barber as the 2nd half change of pace to Jones, as well as in the red zone was really effective to them.

To a disinterested outsider it looked like this demotion finished Jones as a Grrls player and when Barber started to come up short in the latter half of last season there was no-one to take over. I think this year is Barber's 'make or break' to show that he can do more than run over people when they're tired or he somehow ends up in broken field. If he can't he mayefind himself back in the #2 slot.

IMHO this is why the Grrls were prepared to entertain trading Barber this off-season; they're just not sure he's going to make it yet. He should be good enough but he looks best when the team he's up against is demoralized.....

A few quick points to keep in mind:
1. A draft analysts grading a team's draft performance is based exclusively on the draft -- not necessarily on the team's needs. In other words, by most accounts the Skins did a good job with their selections over the weekend. They didn't reach, got good value, and selected good performers. But how they will mesh within the team and its schemes are an unknown.
2. Yes, 3 pass catchers is a lot. And no doubt they will help, but getting all of them involved is unlikely.
3. Is it possible that the USC TE or even one of the new wide outs could still be used for trade bait? New Orleans is looking for a TE. Teams with injuries, particularly to skilled players, in upcoming camps or during the preseason might pay highly... Bottom line I would have liked to have seen them exchange one of those catchers for a big hitter.

All the people who are saying the Redskins should have drafted more in the trenches to be like the Giants and the Patriots are neglecting to answer one simple question: WHO should they have drafted that would have more of an impact than their current players?

Some posters here seem to think elite pass rushers who are also decent against the run grow on trees or something. Do you know how rare it is to find a DL who is good enough at both to be an every-down starter?? ESPN recently ran an article about the lack of decent pass-rushing in today's NFL. Almost no good pass rushers have been drafted over the past 10 years. Yet the Redskins, drafting at 21, were supposed to find one?

Newsflash: there weren't any elite pass-rushers in this draft that we know about. If any of them develop, whoever drafted them got lucky. The Giants? They got lucky and were good at player selection. But I think it's safe to say the Giants didn't just reach for the best available DL and OL every round. And if the Giants had determined that none of the DLs they wanted would be available in 2007, they wouldn't have drafted as many as they did. Of course, Strahan and Umeniyora were already on the team, so those needs were pretty much handled.

This Redskins draft wasn't perfect, but it was good. It's impossible to predict how a given draft will turn out before you have the chance to watch the players for a couple of years at least. I appreciate the effort they made to address needs.

I've been on RI for years, and I approve this message.

Tommy, Campbell fell because he had a couple of lousy workouts, at the Combine, and at the Miami Pro-Day. He seems slow, and weak based on the results of those day's.

As a big fat baby, I already have some doubts about Durant ... the position pick upon whom I've staked my entire bibliography.

As a punting punter, I am convinced he is the guy: distance, hang time, positional placement. For the other things punters do, however, he doesn't do so well. He doesn't tackle. [Frost is ... was ... very good at this ... maybe because he needed to be]. Durant does not kick off the ground or a tee ... i.e., he is not a second string emergency kicker. He does not hold for place kicks. He is supremely confident ... bordering on ... each of the Great Lakes (can't bring myself to bash him yet). Of the maroon and black's 6th round choice he said, "I think the Skins made an awesome pick." These concerns, however, will be nothing if he simply does what he routinely does, punt extremely well.

I am not sure it is a reach to draft 2 WR given that they only have Moss and EL. And MOSS has been hurt lately. The fact of the matter is that the offense consistently produced less than the defense 3 out of last 4 years. Jason, you are writing as if they had no needs in the offensive side. I'd have liked them to pick up someone early enough in the Defensive Line, but you can't rebuild the entire roster in one year draft.

Let's wait to pass our judgment for this draft class until the end of the season. I just wish they had done more of this in the last few years. Then going after the likes of Brendan Lloyd and giving up picks.

With this many weapons, if they don't I'll bury myself alive. Period.

Posted by: Karen | April 28, 2008 3:42 PM

Just curious, but how will you do this if worse comes to worst?

3. Is it possible that the USC TE or even one of the new wide outs could still be used for trade bait?

Posted by: jkj | April 28, 2008 3:42 PM

If history is any indication, it is quite possible that more than half of the Skins' draft picks will not make the roster.

Papken75,
Why did he slip to the 2nd round? Reading the measurables he reads like a freak. Not arguing just wondering why a guy with that athleticism is taken in the 2nd?

Posted by: Tommy

Tommy,

I assume you are referring to Calais Campbell? I dont recall exactly why he slipped to the 2nd, maybe something about taking plays off and a fairly unproductive last season. If you mean Kelly, he slipped because he has a slow 40 time, 2 bad knees, and possible attitude issues. The TE from USC i know is good. I am a displaced Washingtonian living in L.A. so i got to see a lot of him with all th USC hype here. Was he good enough to be pisked where the Skins got him... not sure but i could see him defiantely being there with the Skins 3rd pick. Lokk who was picked by other teams between the Skins 2nd and 3rd picks. The TE from USC would still be there for sure!

Thanks Greg. I hadn't payed much attention and just saw his measurables.

Please don't send me into a depression by contemplating how. It justs seems that if I do that it makes the possibility all the more real.

any word on whether Dan Connor (LB, Penn) has gone yet in the UDFA derby?

Posted by: dcsween | April 28, 2008 3:28 PM

Ummmm, like, this dude was drafted in the 3rd round...by the Panthers...replacing Dan Morgan....

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=12170&draftyear=2008&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfldraft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fid%3d12170%26draftyear%3d2008

As I think about this draft, one thing is apparent. It is about offense. Which was NOT the case with Gibbs in the mix. The top Gibbs pick every year was on defense, and there seemed a balance between offense and defense.

Vinny has made the call that 2008 is about the offense.

More than just PPG (which we talked about above), I'd be interested in seeing the effect these new pass-catchers (and Zorn's O as a whole, of course) have on our third down efficiency and red zone efficiency from last season...

A big, possession receiver opposite Santana, freeing up ARE in the slot and Cooley in the middle, that's the idea, right?

Converting more third downs, moving the chains, and sustaining drives (I realize those three things are the same)...reaching the red zone and, once there, getting TDs instead of FGs... it certainly sounds nice.

-Nate in the PDX

sween,

If you're having buyer's remorse on your punter, check him out here:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/durant-brooks?id=1683

Read both pages. The guy's a keeper.

Jasno said: "You can't convince me that years from now there wont be some very good DT and DE who were selected in rounds 3-6 of this draft."

That's too bad, because history suggests that there won't be. At least, not better than what the Redskins have now. I think Ceratto is an idiot for not trying to draft linemen higher and more often than he does. At the same time, defensive line is one of the hardest positions to predict success unless you have a can't-miss prospect. So it's understandable that the Redskins were too scared of potentially drafting a bust of a d-lineman.

My biggest beef with this draft was the TE pick. I think that was the one spot in the draft where it was worth taking a chance on a lineman on either side of the ball. Generally, a TE isn't going to make that big an impact.

As for the OL issues, I think they've been overblown. The line was a mess last year, and the Skins did all right even when plugging in unproven young players. Those players all have a year more experience now, plus some 3rd-round draft pick help. The Redskins have to hope almost all the injured o-line stays relatively healthy this year. But as other posters have said, at least with o-line the team has some options.

There were too many holes to address in one draft, so the team did what it could. ARE is best in the slot, and Moss has almost never stayed healthy for 16 games in his entire career, so taking 2 WRs was an understandable gamble to make - especially in the second round.

Aside from the Davis pick, I like what they did.

Of course Yoder can't do what Cooley does. Few TEs have the pass receiving skills Cooley does. But Yoder is a blocking TE. That said, he made some memorable plays down the field in '07 and one wonders if they utilized him fully. Had the OL not been banged up we undoubtedly would have seen better production from all the ball handlers.

Posted by: skinfanman | April 28, 2008 1:37 PM

My point was that for a 2 TE set, drafting a pass catching TE was prudent. There wasn't anyone else on the team who would be as effective.

I tend to agree with Jason on this post. They had opportunities to fill needs on an offensive line that is hoping to return two starters from season long injuries in '07. They are all up there in age and the only young stud (if you can call him that) is Heyer. The defensive line is a bit different but I'll bet with anyone right now that Daniels won't stay healthy the whole season. Chris Wilson did some nice things last season, but he isn't Reggie White just yet. Yup, we have some receivers who can be playmakers but Campbell needs to stand upright to get him the ball.

can we stop calling these guys "weapons" they haven't played a down of NFL Football yet. People keep saying we are set for years at WR....

We will see on the feild, thats what makes sports great.....

and WaPo please stop covering the skins, your hurting our feelings....

I don't think the Gints or Iggles did much; the boys of cow had a pretty good draft. I like Felix Jones. The NFL needs more players named Felix.

Posted by: Cindy | April 28, 2008 3:00 PM

Well, we wanted a receiver, but you took them all.

If you bury yourself, please don't do it at the three yard line... it's creating a hump that makes it really hard to score.

"2007 Giants Starting Defensive Linemen who led them to the championship:

Justin Tuck- Drafted by Giants in 3rd
Osi Umenyiora - Drafted by Giants in 2nd
Michael Strahan - Drafted by Giants in 2nd

Posted by: SMC_Redskin | April 28, 2008 2:24 PM "

And the most salient fact about those guys? None of them were drafted in the same year as any other one. Strahan is ancient, Umenyiora is in his prime, and Tuck is a youngster. The Redskins weren't in a position to take the Strahans, Tucks and Unmenyioras of this draft...assuming there were any to be had in the first place.

As I said earlier, I'd like to see the team occasionally target a guy to be their next pass-rushing or run-stuffing stud. They should do this every other draft or so; that's the secret of the Giants' success. But using those 3 as support to bash the Redskins 2008 draft alone is just not a good argument.

The Redskins draft is pretty good if you are talking about Best Player Available.

The Redskins draft is pretty bad if you are talking about drafting to fill up your needs.

If you bury yourself, please don't do it at the three yard line... it's creating a hump that makes it really hard to score.

Posted by: cload & daggar | April 28, 2008 3:55 PM

Cload, I believe the original purpose of the 'jumbo package' (before Rabach redefined that phrase forever) was to flatten that hump.

Having a million great pass catchers is wonderful for the occasional miracle catch over three defenders while flipping in the air... but having a solid O-Line will allow for the more consistant 1st down catches to happen. The same importance can be put on the defensive line. This team will only be successful on a regular basis if we solidify our lines. Did we need a big WR, a steady CB, a LB... yes but we all have to agree that it starts in the trenches. Trent Dilfer and Eli Manning won superbowls because of their strong D-Lines and O-Lines.

SMACK, do you ever reply to your emails any more?

let me put it this way if the skins continue this route and stop giving up picks and add picks the following year draft the skins will be a dangerous team to be messed with.

Give the guy a break. He is entitled to his opinions as is Mel Kiper, Charlie Casserly, and Coach Janky Spanky. Opinions are just that opinions. In three years either J La or Kiper will be right. Kiper was not right about the Giants last year.

Anyway, I think half the people who rip J La so harshly are probably on Snyderatto's pay roll.

I am concerned that they got do DL help, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now

'jumbo package' (before Rabach redefined that phrase forever)

Posted by: Redcoat | April 28, 2008 4:00 PM

RC, fell off my chair on that one!!

Note on Malcolm Kelly

Good Friend is both Sooners and Cowgirls fan and he was PISSED when he heard we drafted him.

Call-you-later-hang-up-the-phone PISSED!

If what JLC is suggesting about Vinny and Dan, inflating the draft score of the WR's, because the owner is infatuated with that position --- well, in all candor, that would be disturbing. Then again, we have heard about so many ego-driven, selfish acts from this Owner.

I always enjoy that JCL will not shy away from being candid about the Redskins and some of the behind the scenes motives/perspectives. Although, all things considered, I think this is an unnecessary negative post.

As an arm-chair GM, my opinion is that it was actually really smart getting 3 highly skilled Receivers in the 2nd round of the draft. If these 2 WR/TE develop to any reasonable level, along with Anthony Mix. The Redskins offense is going to be vicious in a few years. These picks where not to win the SuperBowl next year, its to surround JCampbell with young talent, and to let it all develop and unfold around him. This is going to be a 2-3 year growth process. This offense needs to develop a rapport with each other.

No doubt about it, in the NFL Teams win championships with the OL and DL. The best evidence was the Gaints Defensive Lines unraveling the Pat's 'unbeatable' offense in the SuperBowl. I must admit, I was secretly hoping that Synder was watching that Game, and was becoming enamored with Stud Linemen.

The bottom line, is that The Redskins need to get lucky with some undrafted free agents for the OL and DL. And if they don't dedicate their free agent and draft resources to getting young talent to develop on the OL/DL within the next 24 months, this Organization will remain in the stink hole.

Because, no matter how you want to frame it, the Redskins are just treading water. And if your not playing for the Super Bowl, what are you doing?

******Anyway, I think half the people who rip J La so harshly are probably on Snyderatto's pay roll.*********
Posted by: J La fan club | April 28, 2008 4:02 PM

Not on the payroll, just see red (burgundy) when anyone bashes my team.

For all you JLA haters and Redskins Kool-Aid drinkers, please read Mr. Mark Maske's comments on the chat today. He seems to also think that drafting 2 wide receivers and a TE all in the same round is curious.

Mark Maske: I really like both Calais Campbell and Quentin Groves as pass rushers, and they're two of the guys that you're talking about. I don't understand taking two wide receivers like that, either. To me, the thing to do would have been to stay put at No. 21 in the first round and get your defensive end by taking Phillip Merling, knowing you'll get one of the wide receivers in the second round because none of them had been taken at that point.

http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/04/28/redskins-sign-cyclones-qb-bret-meyer/

Redskins sign some QB named Jordan Palmer ooops I mean Bret Meyer

If the offense runs with more efficiency, and scores more points, it stands to reason that most likely, they'll be on the field more often than they were last year. It also stands to reason that if they're more successful, and more efficient the defense will benefit from not being on the field as MUCH.

Is that too simplistic??

The bottom line, is that The Redskins need to get lucky with some undrafted free agents for the OL and DL. And if they don't dedicate their free agent and draft resources to getting young talent to develop on the OL/DL within the next 24 months, this Organization will remain in the stink hole.

Because, no matter how you want to frame it, the Redskins are just treading water. And if your not playing for the Super Bowl, what are you doing?

Posted by: Alobar | April 28, 2008 4:03 PM

Amen.

You keep forgetting that over the past 4 years, we have NO ONE to throw to except Moss when he isn't hurt and Cooley, who many times had to be held in for max protect. Not because the O line couldn't do the job, but because Campbell had no one to throw who caused fear in opposing defenses so they would stack the line. I like the idea that we have several new big targets for Jason to throw to. If you are going to make Jason the franchise QB, then you have to give him weapons to work with. Now how do the defenses line up against the Skins? Double Moss and you have these big recievers and TE's that you can dump the ball to, or on a quick slant, the bread and butter play of the West Coast offense. We got 3 first round players in the second round. ALL of the first rate O linemen had been chosen and you saw Atlanta and Houston reach because of the run on O linemen. What else could the Skins have done? I think we are going to be looking back on these picks as having revived our offense. Vinnie and Snyder have finally figured out, that we need to OUT SCORE the Cowboys, Eagles and Giants to win the division. No more 17-14 games. We have to score 21 or more points per game in order to win.

To me, the Skins should have taken shots at DL and OL with about 5 picks. Its not uncommon to find very effective guys in the mid rounds. Take multiple shots at getting a Jared Allen of Justin Tuck. It happens.

The thought process that led to the team essentially leaving the defense out and taking only 1 OL when all of the starters are 30+, is strange. Especially when you are taking a punter, a TE (maybe the Skins top player) and a 3rd string QB. Its hard to figure those needs are more compelling than the o line or defense.

Still, the real tale of this class will be in the number of players that make an impact. If the players selected are good NFL players, then this will have been a good draft.

Its more important to draft players that can play in the NFL than solve position needs. Get quantity of players from the draft at reasonable prices. Then use FA to help with specific positions (ie Fletcher at MLB).

everyone forgets, the skins late round draft picks have historically not made this team under cerrato. if any of these guys past the 4th round are on the team, i'd be surprised. here are few names we've forgotten: Jared Newberry, Robert McCune, Kevin Simon, Kili Lefotu, Manuel White, and oh so many more.......

Redskins dump one rapper and pick up two new ones (Davis and Kelly)

http://www.hogshaven.com/2008/4/28/462385/redskins-cut-one-rapper-dr

Yahoo Sports gave the Skins an "A". Overall a good draft but like one poster indicated, when was last time the Skins had WRs play the entire year? A very very long time ago. We got burned most of last year by not having our starting WRs out on the field. Hopefully these WRs will turn out to be better than average.

Kevin

JCabana,

Tuck, Umenyiora and Strahan were all 2-3rd rounders. None of them were projected 1st round studs. Why not take a shot a 2nd/3rd round pass rusher like these guys once were? Heck, you have 3 picks in the 2nd round, at least ONE of them could've been a defensive lineman.

Redskins sign some QB named Bret Meyer

Posted by: | April 28, 2008 4:07 PM

Didn't he make all those sexploitation movies featuring various women with generous embonpoint ?

Or maybe that was Oscar Meyer? Or Rush Limbaugh?

I'm so confused!

I admit it. I was WRONG.

Due to circumstances the REDSKINS MADE the best of the situation they were in. Good draft, guys.

Once they made the trade down from the first round--A GOOD MOVE--and had three 2nd rounders, they got some bad breaks.

MERLING was plucked by Miami right away at 32.

When the 34th pick arrived, DEVIN THOMAS was the right move.

Unfortunately, Trevor Laws, DT goes to Phila at 47. I'll BET the skins would have taken him at 48. Instead, they go for FRED DAVIS. The only other real option? CALAIS CAMPBELL. He's iffy.

CAMPBELL goes at 50, anyway. The skins pluck MALCOLM KELLY.

Okay we WANTED OLmen or DLmen.

I LOOKED at the other teams and their picks, THERE WERE NO good selections AVAILABLE!!

INDY takes an undersized OG-C at 59(Mike Pollak). The SKINS got their undersized OG-C (DeVan) as a UFA!

JASON JONES a DT or DE from a small school goes at 54. Is he better than KELLY? Probably not. Not a hard worker, some say.

THERE ARE NO offensive linemen or DLINEMEN taken in the second round that the SKINS coulda/shoulda had..

It wasn't that the skins didn't buy--ther was no product available.

DBs? LBs? That's an argument for another day. But the BIG UGLIES weren't there.

So you are just a blind homer?

Not on the payroll, just see red (burgundy) when anyone bashes my team.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 28, 2008 4:05 PM

While I have no reason not to believe jasno's point that VC and Danny inflated the grades of the WRs because they perceived that position as a need, why wouldn't every single other front office do the same thing?

The teams that didn't have Kelly and Thomas rated as high probably were those that already have quality depth at the WR position. I'm willing to bet the 'Skins didn't have Jonathan Stewart and Chris Johnson as highly rated as say, the Cowboys, who made it readily apparent they were looking for an additional RB.

Note on Malcolm Kelly

Good Friend is both Sooners and Cowgirls fan and he was PISSED when he heard we drafted him.

Call-you-later-hang-up-the-phone PISSED!

Posted by: Poop on LaCanfora | April 28, 2008 4:03 PM

Hey Poopy:
Sheesh, would you learn how to write?Who's "he" -- the Good Friend or Kelly?

Why draft a lineman to develop when you can sign them as a free agent after the draft?

Say what you want but the FO got first round talent from Stephon Heyer last year without using any draft picks.

Everyone wants lineman in draft but we have quality starters at every line position on both side....we need depth yes but no one available was better than what we already have.

If the offense runs with more efficiency, and scores more points, it stands to reason that most likely, they'll be on the field more often than they were last year. It also stands to reason that if they're more successful, and more efficient the defense will benefit from not being on the field as MUCH.

Is that too simplistic??

Posted by: Greg | April 28, 2008 4:07 PM

Not too simplistic Greg, but it's also exactly the same argument that was used both for and against Weird Al's offense!

Scoring points is obviously important, but if you're playing the best teams the time of possession may be even more vital. It's hard to win out in today's NFL if you can't keep the other guys offense off the field for most of the game too.

The Patriots were super-effective with limited time of possession against some teams but eventually found that they couldn't keep getting away with that aging LB corps because their defense couldn't get off the fi