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Eagles-Redskins Moves to 4:15

The Redskins' final regular-season home game Dec. 21 has been moved to a 4:15 start, the NFL has announced.

The game, in which the Redskins host the Philadelphia Eagles, is the next-to-last of the regular season.

Carolina's game against the Giants in East Rutherford, N.J., will be the featured Sunday night game on the 21st, replacing San Diego's game at Tampa Bay. San Diego-Tampa Bay moves to a 1 p.m. start.

Atlanta's game at Minnesota also was moved to a 4:15 p.m. start.

By Cindy Boren  |  December 9, 2008; 12:08 PM ET
 
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Comments

great cause primetime has been so good to us

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

First pick, every pick should be O line & front 7.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

On a nother note...is anyone else disturbed by the horrible Novembers we have had in the last few years?? At a time when teams should be ramping it up and getting into position...we put ourselves behind the 8-ball with crappy Novembers...

November record
2004 ... 1-3
2005 ... 1-3
2006 ... 2-2
2007 ... 1-3
2008 ... 1-3

at home during this time we are a whopping 4-7. So all those who want to wax poetic about "at least these are home games.", think again.

By contrast...

December
2008 ... 0-1 so far
2007 ... 4-1
2006 ... 1-4
2005 ... 4-0
2004 ... 2-2

It sure would be nice not to have to make another "miracle run" in order to get into the playoffs.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 9, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

First pick, every pick should be O line & front 7.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

which will get us 4 players when we need 7 or 8...

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Good. Just delaying the inevitable defeat...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Even good draft picks have a steep learning curve to make an impact. You have to go some FA and draft without overpaying for mediocre and washed up talent.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 9, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

We need to bring back Russ Grimm to coach the line or be O-Coordinator.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 9, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Good. Just delaying the inevitable defeat...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Right !! This just pushes the time I throw my cell phone at the TV back 3 hours.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 9, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Hello, is this thing on?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 9, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Someone once asked Jimi Hendrix what it was like to be the world's greatest guitarist. Hendrix replied, "I don't know, ask Leigh Torrence."

Posted by: freakzilla | December 9, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Doc Walker is off more than Lohan's shirt.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 9, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence wasn't good enough to keep around. It's easy to second guess but it is hard to make the decision to cut a popular guy in the locker room.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 9, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse

We need to bring back Russ Grimm to coach the line or be O-Coordinator.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 9, 2008 12:18 PM

I will continue to stomp my feet for him to be the head coach. The fit is so perfect it's ridiculous.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 9, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse

We need to bring back Russ Grimm to coach the line or be O-Coordinator.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 9, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

That actually is a good point...Why is Buges getting a free pass on the play of the line the last month or two. If he gets the credit, he should get the blame.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 9, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Will we be on national TV?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Based on last year, I kinda expect Vinny to trade the #1 pick for a #2 and and an additional late rounder. That would: 1) avoid having to pay 1st round money (that I expect to have been spent on a free agent linebacker and/or DT), while 2) giving them picks at excellent OL/DL talent in the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th round. He may go more defensively oriented if Heyer/Rhineheart work well. Hope Geisenger gets healthy; we may yet need him.

Posted by: AppleScience | December 9, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

From the end of the last thread:

I disagree with Wilbon 90% of the time, but on the issue of Campbell he is correct.

JC was doing well early in the season when he had time to set his feet (these days, he usually has someone breathing on him before he even finishes dropping back).

It's the line. And I hope they don't trade for some big name OL or pay Colombo or some other FA big $$$ in the off-season. They should just draft two tackles and two guards and bring them in and let them compete for jobs.

If they are going to address anything via free agency, I'd suggest the D-line (DE specifically). I think the interior is OK, but the Redskins are getting no rush from either DE this year.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 9, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Based on last year, I kinda expect Vinny to trade the #1 pick for a #2 and and an additional late rounder. That would: 1) avoid having to pay 1st round money (that I expect to have been spent on a free agent linebacker and/or DT), while 2) giving them picks at excellent OL/DL talent in the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th round. He may go more defensively oriented if Heyer/Rhineheart work well. Hope Geisenger gets healthy; we may yet need him.

Posted by: AppleScience | December 9, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Thank you for a well thought out reasonable post.

I agree totally, I think the Skins sign 2 or 3 big name free agents and then do exactly what you just said, trade out of round one and stockpile lines and linebacker talent. At least that's what they should do, but Vinny isn't necessarily smart enough for that.

My predictions on the big names:

Houshmanzilly
Hayesworth
Suggs or Peppers

Who I wish we would sign
Engram
haynesworth (only huge bidding war guy of the bunch)
Canty
Bart Scott

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Applescience - our 1st rounder (probably aroudn 20th pick) is worth two mid second rounders.

Have to trade down.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

and throw in
Derrick Ward
or Darren Sproles

as who we should sign, but unlikely, every coaching staff says how much they love betts, then ride Portis like the metro until he breaks down then the offense tanks

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Who I wish we would sign
Engram
haynesworth (only huge bidding war guy of the bunch)
Canty
Bart Scott

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:30 PM

GOOD IDEA, zjfr2. I like your thinking. Having watched Canty play at Virginia, he was a beast! And a local kid to boot. Just what the team needs. Engram is a good upgrade over Thrash. He's a vet and knows the system. I like Haynesworth but I think he's too expensive.

If the Giants release Burress or Derrick Ward, do the Redskins pounce? I say yes.

Posted by: ColumbiaUSkins | December 9, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Applescience - our 1st rounder (probably aroudn 20th pick) is worth two mid second rounders.

Have to trade down.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

maybe on the outdated value chart ryp, but when is the last time you've ever heard of a team giving up 2 second rounders to get a middle of the first round pick? It doesn't happen man, at best we could trade down in round 1 and pick up a 3rd, or move into the second and MAYBE get a late 3rd but more likely a 4th as well.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

CHRIS CANTY WARNING !!

zjfr2, most of those names I am ok with...but...living here in Dallas, i can tell you that Canty is no more than average. And this is on line with DeMarcus Ware and Tank Johnson on it. You would think with those studs on it he would rise up...not so much.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 9, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

sorry that was supposed to say move down in round one and get a 4th.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

1. Why is it so hard to sign in to this thing? Sometimes I see the sign in link and sometimes not... whats up with that boren?

2. Why is everyone saying we need another RB to help CP? This makes absolutely no sense to me. Drafting a RB is proposterous and moronic considering they picks they need to take at OL and DL. And throwing Betts46 under the bus when he hasnt had the chance to play due to injury and not being allowed to spell CP as much as most reasonable ppl think he should be. AND we resigned him to a sizeable deal a year or 2 ago. Anyone remember the job he did when CP was hurt a few seasons ago? The dude can play. He's no gamebreaker, but he is a good back up.

3. With all the talk about FA and the 09 draft and who the Skins should sign/draft... I havent heard anyone mention that FA depends on who isnt resigned, who is designated Franchise players for the Skins to even have the CHANCE to sign them. And if OL or DL are available in FA, they may want waaayyy too much money for it to be worth it. And with the draft, no one has said anything about it depends on who is available. There are 31 other teams drafting before and after each Skins pick... So again it depends on who is available. It also depends on who the Skins pick up in FA in March. This will affect draft selection. But I would hope Cerrato changes his BPA approach since this team NEEDS youth infusion on both lines.
3. Dont forget about the hopeful development of 2008 picks into starters or solid contributors (Rinehart/Thomas/Kelley/Tryon {who needs to keep tryon!}/that 7th round DE whose name escapes me)
Couple this (hope) with possible imediate contributors from the upcoming 09 draft and 09 FA pick ups and the lines could be signicantly improved for the present/future.
4. The current OL: Samuels can still play. Pencil him in at LT next year. I see Heyer starting at RT next year with Jansen hopefully taking a pay cut to remain a Skins backup. My concern is imediate help at the interior spots. Kendal is up there in age and it would be nice to see Rinehart step in for him at RG next year. Rabach and Thomas would look a lot better with some help around them. If they draft a G or C in the 1st round I would expect them to push for a starting spot. Or a FA pick up to push for a starting spot cant hurt. Make Rabach/Thomas/Kendal work harder for their spot, have them not assume they are starting because no one behind them pushes them in the least.

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 9, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Any charts ive looked at still says that .... but you're right, one team prob wouldnt trade 2 2nds for a first, but maybe a multi-team deal could work out that way..... or we give up a 5th or 6th too.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: cej75024 | December 9, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

He's not a stud, but he's a 300 pound plus end who has 27 tackles and 2 sacks in a 3-4 system. His job is to take on double teams and let Ware and ellis get after the QB. He's young, cheap, and I think would be much better in a 4:3 system, much like Patrick Kerney took off by leaving Atlanta's 3:4 to go to Seattle's 4:3. We can't sign all studs, everywhere, we need some value signings, a young big DE like Canty could be a great value sign, especially if you sign your stud Haynesworth.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

breaking news!

Skins send 2009 1st rounder and Jason Taylor to the Saints for Leigh Torrence...we're going to the playoffs now for sure!

/Curse of Leight Torrence is officially over.

Posted by: bms46and2 | December 9, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Now this I am happy about.....we have played well at 4:15 this season. We have sucked on primetime and have been so-so at 1:00 pm.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 9, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

but you're right, one team prob wouldnt trade 2 2nds for a first,

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2008 12:47 PM

Didn't the skins and falcons pull this off last year?

Posted by: TWISI | December 9, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

wow, 2 offensive lineman and zero defensive lineman drafted before the 5th round in the last 8 drafts by the skins, that's pitiful, sorry, Doc and Sheehan just said that, that's amazing.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Kevin Sheehan on 980 just summed it up:

The Skins have drafted two O-Linemen before the 5th round in the last 8 drafts.

The Skins have picked O D-Linemen before the 5th round in the last 8 drafts.

Hence the fact we can't protect our passer and we can't sack anyone elses passer.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

We need to bring back Russ Grimm to coach the line or be O-Coordinator.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 9, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I don't see it happening with Zorn here, they have different styles and dunno about meshing. But its a total fanboy move.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Didn't the skins and falcons pull this off last year?

Posted by: TWISI | December 9, 2008 12:51 PM |

We threw in some other picks with that trade.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

but you're right, one team prob wouldnt trade 2 2nds for a first,

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2008 12:47 PM

Didn't the skins and falcons pull this off last year?

Posted by: TWISI | December 9, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

we sent them our 5th and 6th as well

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

but then we traded again and got back a 5th and 6th.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Since then? They took wide receiver Taylor Jacobs with a second-round pick in 2003 and he gave the team nothing. They took wide receiver Cliff Russell in the third round in 2002. They took Rod Gardner, who had an okay but brief run, 15th overall in 2001. A couple of years ago they traded a third- and a fourth-round pick for Brandon Lloyd, who was a disaster for the minute-and-a-half he was here. And of course, in 2008 they took three pass-catchers -- Devin Thomas, Fred Davis and Malcolm Kelly -- who together don't have 20 catches this season.

Yes, Jason Campbell needed receivers, but the Redskins essentially picked three knuckleheads, pass-catchers who still haven't convinced the coaches they know the plays. Imagine if the team had used those picks on linemen over the years? Imagine if they'd simply used the two picks they dealt to the 49ers for Lloyd on linemen. A team playing a power division like the NFC East can't go the better part of a decade without using a single high pick on a player who can protect the quarterback. The Redskins knew they were old and injured on the offensive line when they went into the draft and did nothing.

well said wilbon

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence would of volunteered to play lt against suggs.

sigh.

Posted by: bms46and2 | December 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

do ya'll realize in 2004 we took Manuel White Jr. 4 picks in front of Chris Canty!!!!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

but you're right, one team prob wouldnt trade 2 2nds for a first,

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 9, 2008 12:47 PM

Didn't the skins and falcons pull this off last year?

Posted by: TWISI | December 9, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

we sent them our 5th and 6th as well

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Wait, I think we sent them our 3rd round pick (the 21st pick in the round, and kept our compensatory selection from the Derrick Dockery defection). In return, Atlanta gave us their 4th round pick, which we subsequently used to take Tryon.

Our fifth and seventh round picks were dealt to St. Louis for their two sixth round picks. Jackson and Horton were compensatory selections.

This is all from memory, so I could be wrong, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night, if that's any help to you all.

Posted by: ColumbiaUSkins | December 9, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ColumbiaUSkins | December 9, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

regardless, nobody is going to give two 2's straight up for a mid round #1

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

The Skins have drafted two O-Linemen before the 5th round in the last 8 drafts.

The Skins have picked O D-Linemen before the 5th round in the last 8 drafts


Unbelieveable....stunning...

Posted by: cej75024 | December 9, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Where does the ham sandwich fit into these draft equations?

Posted by: freakzilla | December 9, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 9, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

For the life of me, I can't understand why JC is getting all of the venom. There is a reason he was a MVP candidate through the first 8 games. The dude is getting hit as soon as he drops back and sets his feet. Give him more time. There is a reason why we've run through twenty plus QBs since Mark Rypien. Peyton, Eli, and Farve all struggled in their first two years as starters. The blame falls on Zorn and Vinny. Zorn because of the vanilla offense and horrible play calling and Vinny for the worst draft I've seen in quite some time. Vinny not seriously addressing the O or D line with those picks is unacceptable. he should be fired alone for drafting a 5'8 cornerback in the 4th round who has no business in the NFL.

Posted by: dcwun | December 9, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

regardless, nobody is going to give two 2's straight up for a mid round #1

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

agreed. *sighs*

Posted by: ColumbiaUSkins | December 9, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

We may be able to get a 2-3.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

We traded Atlanta 1, 3, and 5 round picks for 2, 2, and 4 round picks.

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

I just re-found this TD celebration on youtube. This beats Gus Frerotte's headbutt.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-azgWTq3_dU

that has me rolling, I can't stop laughing at it

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Does everyone on this blog have the attention span of a puppy?

Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2008 12:12 PM

No, a hamster. What were you talking about again?

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

do ya'll realize in 2004 we took Manuel White Jr. 4 picks in front of Chris Canty!!!!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:02 PM

You can thank GM Joe for that. On the bright side the pick filled the team's need for an extra practice squad player for a whole 2 seasons!

Posted by: Predator48 | December 9, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

For those who did not hear Frerotte's career may be done from that injury, last update I heard was a broken bone in his back.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Jack, come on now, Manuel White was a playmaker and a heartbreaker.

Oh, you're talking about Manuel White Junior.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 9, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

My post from before the draft earlier this year. I was ahead of the curve then, still with you now. 8/9 picks were for OL, DL, LB
****

Skins have 9 picks. Here is what I'd do:

O-line 4 picks
d-line 2 picks
WR or DB 1 pick
LB 2 picks

No picks: QB, TE, RB or special teams

Hopefully you get 3 guys who are starters within 2 years.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 23, 2008 8:43 PM

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 9, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Don't know if anybody saw this, but Carson Palmer looks like he's playing this weekend.......greeeeaaaaat

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Jack, come on now, Manuel White was a playmaker and a heartbreaker.

Oh, you're talking about Manuel White Junior.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 9, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

yes, hence the Jr. after the manuel white part

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm guessing they forgot about this guy

Players Main
Derrick Dockery | #66 | G

Buffalo Bills | Official Team Site

Height: 6-6 Weight: 330 Age: 28

Born: 9/7/1980 Dallas Co. , TX

College: Texas

Experience: 6th season

High School: Lakeview Centennial HS [Garland, TX]
team rosters quick stats (2008) Select a Team Arizona Cardinals Atlanta Falcons Baltimore Ravens Buffalo Bills Carolina Panthers Chicago Bears Cincinnati Bengals Cleveland Browns Dallas Cowboys Denver Broncos Detroit Lions Green Bay Packers Houston Texans Indianapolis Colts Jacksonville Jaguars Kansas City Chiefs Miami Dolphins Minnesota Vikings New England Patriots New Orleans Saints New York Giants New York Jets Oakland Raiders Philadelphia Eagles Pittsburgh Steelers San Diego Chargers San Francisco 49ers Seattle Seahawks St. Louis Rams Tampa Bay Buccaneers Tennessee Titans Washington Redskins G
13
GS
13
Profile
Career Stats
Game Logs
Game Splits
Situational Stats

Recent Games more
WK OPP RESULT G GS
12 @ KC W 54-31 1 1
13 SF L 3-10 1 1
14 MIA L 3-16 1 1

Career Stats more
Season Team G GS
2008 Buffalo Bills 13 13
2007 Buffalo Bills 16 16
2006 Washington Redskins 16 16
2005 Washington Redskins 16 16
2004 Washington Redskins 16 16
2003 Washington Redskins 16 13
this guy?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | December 9, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Where does the ham sandwich fit into these draft equations?

Posted by: freakzilla | December 9, 2008 1:07 PM


I think thats what we got in the TJ Duckett trade...
It was actually what we traded for in the first place. Duckett was just extra.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 9, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

though I would made this trade with our picks:
****

I'm sure someone has done a study. 4 years after drafting, what % of players have succeeded. By round. Even in the top round, there is a lot of hit and miss. So if you can get a proven player in return for a draft pick, you should usually take it.

Boldin has a lot of career in front of him. Trading him for a #21 pick + one more is a great deal for the Skins ....

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 24, 2008 7:43 PM

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 9, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs was responsible for drafts 2004-2007.

Vinny is responsible for 2008, and you can partially lay responsiblity for 2002-2003 (along with Snyder).

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Jumbo,

They were referring to players who are still on the team what good does it do to talk about a player who plays for someone else.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Jumbo,

I'm sorry he is one of the two they are talking about Dockery and Rinehart.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs was responsible for drafts 2004-2007.

Vinny is responsible for 2008, and you can partially lay responsiblity for 2002-2003 (along with Snyder).

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

People keep saying this, I think that's an over simplification, Gibbs repeatedly and consistently said that it wasn't him making the picks that it was a group effort between he Vinny and Dan, to just lay all the credit and blame at Joe's feet isn't accurate, I think Joe carries the blame for Brunel, that seemed to be his move the whole way but Vinny and Danny were involved in every move during Gibbs 2.0

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Damb ... something I was bidding for on eBay just got taken down ... U.S. Senate seat in Illinois ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"giving them picks at excellent OL/DL talent in the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th round. He may go more defensively oriented if Heyer/Rhineheart work well. Hope Geisenger gets healthy; we may yet need him."

Picks after the 3rd round are not likely to make an impact in most cases. The odd gem is stumbled upon. The fact that the Skins kept all 10 of their draft picks this season is either confirming a brilliant draft, statistically amazing, or more that Vinny can do no wrong, especially in his own mind.

Posted by: driley | December 9, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"My post from before the draft earlier this year. I was ahead of the curve then, still with you now. 8/9 picks were for OL, DL, LB
****

Skins have 9 picks. Here is what I'd do:

O-line 4 picks
d-line 2 picks
WR or DB 1 pick
LB 2 picks

No picks: QB, TE, RB or special teams

Hopefully you get 3 guys who are starters within 2 years.

Posted by: AL, Zeke, etc | April 23, 2008 8:43 PM

Posted by: zcezcest1"

good try, but that was posted by an "AL, Zeke, etc.", and you are "zcezcest1".

So stop lying.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 9, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Dockery and Rhinehart were the 2 since 2000 they were talking about Jumbo, 2 Oline and Zero Dline since 2000.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

We def need a beast DT, and keep Ghol and Monty in rotation, maybe even keep griff (is he a FA?). Keep Carter and D Evans along the outside and get wilson and jacson some playing time.

I think we go HUGE in FA this year.

Think about, uncapped year in 2010, we can cut all those guys if it doesnt work out and we get no cap hit.

Draft all o line and maybe one LB, and then get an outside backer who will replace MW.

Bye Spring, hello Hall resigning. Then we get Doughty back (very servicable) plus Hort, LL, Moore and maybe Green.

JT has to be gone...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Picks after the 3rd round are not likely to make an impact in most cases. The odd gem is stumbled upon. The fact that the Skins kept all 10 of their draft picks this season is either confirming a brilliant draft, statistically amazing, or more that Vinny can do no wrong, especially in his own mind.

Posted by: driley | December 9, 2008 1:29 PM |

I would be willing to bet that there are more active players in the NFL drafted after the 3rd round then before it.

There are some very good players in the NFL drafted after the 3rd round look it up.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

That was hillarious, dcsween. I see it more as market forces at work. Why spend money on an election bid when you can buy one in the after-market?

Posted by: driley | December 9, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Dockery and Rhinehart were the 2 since 2000 they were talking about Jumbo, 2 Oline and Zero Dline since 2000.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:30 PM

"Since" means "not including," right? Samuels was drafted in 2000.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I think we go HUGE in FA this year.

Think about, uncapped year in 2010, we can cut all those guys if it doesnt work out and we get no cap hit.

Draft all o line and maybe one LB, and then get an outside backer who will replace MW.

Bye Spring, hello Hall resigning. Then we get Doughty back (very servicable) plus Hort, LL, Moore and maybe Green.

JT has to be gone...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 1:31 PM |

Zeebs,

You should look up the rules under the uncapped year there are rules in place to prevent this type of goings on.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Don't know about that, but certainly olineman can be found consistently in rounds 3 thru 5, and I mean starters, not just on the team guys.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

"Since" means "not including," right? Samuels was drafted in 2000.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 1:33 PM |

dc,

That would be correct the last 8 drafts would not include the 2000 draft.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"Since" means "not including," right? Samuels was drafted in 2000.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

exactly, and Jansen was a #2 in 1999 but since 2000 2 guys

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

+++The sound of those two nicknames, coupled with the guys' decidedly un-menacing natures/dispositions/body types cracked me up. I championed Geisinger a few weeks back as the single most deserving recipient of a Pro Bowl push, and now this nickname, coupled with his debut at left tackle and individual battle with Terrell Suggs, has to put him over the top. And with Rinehart likely to be active for the first time since being taken in the third round in April, I guess that'll make him eligible for some write-in votes, right?

By Jason La Canfora+++


They BETTER be un-menacing. Some professional athletes might take umbrage at being made fun of by someone whose body type most resembles a Shmoo.

You want to make fun of someone, maybe you should make fun of someone who can defend himself, not someone just trying to hang on and earn a living.

As far as Geisinger being thrown in at a position he'd never played before, and being overwhelmed by an all-pro on the other side of the line... Kinda like an editor telling you on deadline he needs a a crisp 500 words on the latest Quantum Physics breakthrough immediately. And he wants to nominate your piece for a Pulitzer.


Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

sweet...we haevnt lost a 4:15 game all year...3-0!!!

with 2 remaining now (Philly and SF) and those being our toughest games...i think we can go 3-0 to finish and make the last wild card spot.

seriously though, i think the help that we need to get to the playoffs, that being Dallas and Atlanta needing to lose 1 more game, is a higher probability than us winning all 3...thus if we can will all 3...i think the odds are in our favor to slip in...

re:the draft...

might not be a bad idea to draft a RB in the mid rounds if a good one is on the board...our backfield is aging and wearing down...but obviously there are more pressing needs...

Posted by: deadskin | December 9, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I just re-found this TD celebration on youtube. This beats Gus Frerotte's headbutt.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-azgWTq3_dU


that has me rolling, I can't stop laughing at it

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 9, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Holy crap !!! Funny as heck !!!

Posted by: cej75024 | December 9, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Jumbo,

I'm sorry he is one of the two they are talking about Dockery and Rinehart.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

the problem with listing to those guys is that up until recently(the last 2-4 weeks)is all they've been complaining about was the lack of playmakers on this team,and now that the injuries have started piling up,the problem is the lack of focus on DRAFTING o-linemen....

did they mention that since 2000 the've,drafted dockery,and rhinehart,picked up a really good gaurd in Thomas,good center in Rhabach,and and drafted,or picked up young talent that to groom that just han't panned out...

Posted by: jumbo5383 | December 9, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Floud, i see nothing about us cutting players in 2010 that would be affected. everything they have in effect is for acquiring players in 2010. Thats why i said we would do it this offseason.

We would owe the bonuses, but we could unload a lot in June of 2010 and it would not affect the non-existent cap of that year?

Give me a link where this would be impossible and i will stand corrected.

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Don't know about that, but certainly olineman can be found consistently in rounds 3 thru 5, and I mean starters, not just on the team guys.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:34 PM |

I will do the research tomorrow to prove my point.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

To add, the only issue is we would be signing them this year and then if the CBA is reached with a cap, we would be in serious hell. It is a blind leap.

But would you put that type of gamble past snyder?

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

People keep saying this, I think that's an over simplification, Gibbs repeatedly and consistently said that it wasn't him making the picks that it was a group effort between he Vinny and Dan, to just lay all the credit and blame at Joe's feet isn't accurate, I think Joe carries the blame for Brunel, that seemed to be his move the whole way but Vinny and Danny were involved in every move during Gibbs 2.0

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 1:28 PM

Manuel White had to be a Gibbs pick because it was his first season there and everybody knows how he liked big hybrid fullback/H-back players.

I didn't get the pick at the time because they already had Sellers and picked Cooley a round earlier.

I have no proof of this but the pick smelled of Gibbs to me.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 9, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Nice Vid TT11.

ouch.

Posted by: _Stumped_1 | December 9, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

good try, but that was posted by an "AL, Zeke, etc.", and you are "zcezcest1".

So stop lying.

Posted by: TheTruth11

We're one and the same. That registration, no registration thing. and that's the Truth, Truth. And you should recognize Truth when you see it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 9, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

We should have never let Dockery go.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

We should have never let Dockery go.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

OH so true!!!!

Posted by: jumbo5383 | December 9, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Every story i read uses Snyder as the example of buying a champ in 2010 and how that will be restricted.

But snyder may just decide to 'rent' these guys one more year before blowing the whole thing up, which he may have to do anyway if there is a cap in 2010 and we spend this offseason.

Actually, i am starting to think it is a good idea... maybe that is what our so impressively forward thinking and visionary of ownership and Gm are doing.. playing us for patsys the whole way..

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Floud, i see nothing about us cutting players in 2010 that would be affected. everything they have in effect is for acquiring players in 2010. Thats why i said we would do it this offseason.

We would owe the bonuses, but we could unload a lot in June of 2010 and it would not affect the non-existent cap of that year?

Give me a link where this would be impossible and i will stand corrected.

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 1:39 PM |

Zeebs,

There is an article about this subject I will try to find it tomorrow. I am not saying it is not possible I just know that there are rules to the uncapped year.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

nor pierce, torrence, or mason.......we're DOOMED....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 9, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Gweez | December 9, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Dockery got a fortune to go to Buffalo. We could have signed him cheaper if we took a chance and did a deal about a year earlier.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 9, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

and drafted,or picked up young talent that to groom that just han't panned out...

Posted by: jumbo5383

Young talent that haven't panned out? I wonder why?

Linemen acquired by the Redskins that have "worked out":

Chris Samuels - 1st rounder
Pete Kendall - 1st rounder
Randy Thomas - 2nd rounder
Jon Jansen - 2nd rounder
Casey Rabach - 3rd rounder
Derrick Dockerry - 3rd rounder

Now which young talent have the Redskins acquired that have not "worked out"? Where were they drafted?

I sense a trend....

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

favorite parts of that video is his reaction from the replay's view

dude is in pain, gets pushed, takes out another guy, then the QB ends up being flagged


Classic.


what a clown

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 9, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Someone once asked Jimi Hendrix what it was like to be the world's greatest guitarist. Hendrix replied, "I don't know, ask Leigh Torrence."

Posted by: freakzilla

One of the rare good lines about Torrence.

On a serious note. i don't think the issus is whether or not Torrence was/is any good. It's who was judging him.

These are the same rocket surgeons who drafted three receivers with butt splinters, and whose only draft day claim to fame is a guy they took the round AFTER Durant Brooks, and THREE rounds after J.T. Tryon. These are the people who didn't know Evans could play or Jason Taylor and Erasmus James could not. These are the people who've had three punters who could be out-kicked by my Aunt Sally. These are the guys who've drafted ONE Olineman in two years, a guy who is active this week ONLY because tackle meetings are held in a surgical ward. (I'm glad Rinehart is playing. I wish there were more.)


Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Some guy in the Examiner is stating he has sources inside the Skins that says Zorn's job could be in trouble if the Skins finish bad. Anyone seen this?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 9, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Dockery got a fortune to go to Buffalo. We could have signed him cheaper if we took a chance and did a deal about a year earlier.

Posted by: zcezcest1

Can we use this as a hint towards our own young-ish "Soup" and "Double-move"?

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Psps;

you cant count Kendell, he has been in the league 13 years, back then there were only ten teams and 17 rounds to the draft...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

As for Gibbs vs Vinny and the draft picks -- I don't think we'll ever really know who drove what. But I've always suspected that Vinny had more input in the draft and Gibbs more in FA. This is because Gibbs had to spend the football season as HC of the Skins, while Vinny should have been looking at the colleges and talking with the scouts.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 9, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Look, I dont want to stick up for Vinny Cerrato very much, BUT: You cant judge his 1st draft (2008) by what the picks have done this year. If these 2 WR's turn out to be good, then all of you are eating your words. I dont agree with BPA strategy which apparently netted the Skins Fred Davis86, but you still have to give these picks time to develop before judging them as players and Cerrato as a GM. Wake the F^ck up people!

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 9, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

"Some guy in the Examiner is stating he has sources inside the Skins that says Zorn's job could be in trouble if the Skins finish bad.

Posted by: Flounder21"

As it should be. Nobody should get a free pass on performance just because they're a rookie. Not players, not coaches. Measurable progress is where it's at.

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

The "fire Zorn" rumors have started....

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Chris Samuels - 1st rounder
Pete Kendall - 1st rounder
Randy Thomas - 2nd rounder
Jon Jansen - 2nd rounder
Casey Rabach - 3rd rounder
Derrick Dockerry - 3rd rounder

Now which young talent have the Redskins acquired that have not "worked out"? Where were they drafted?

I sense a trend....

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse


So should i assume that you have to be a third rounder or better to make it for the skins?or should they take a chance at grooming a guy like they're doing with Heyer?

Posted by: jumbo5383 | December 9, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Wake the F^ck up people!

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 9, 2008 1:51 PM

I think the good people of F^ck up should be allowed to continue to sleep.

driley, I'm sure it was a buyers' market, but the seller had to withdraw the offer ... the Governor of Illinois was just indicted and arrested for trying to sell the job.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

+++“The (Zorn) honeymoon is definitely over,” said one team insider of Redskins owner Dan Snyder and Zorn.--_DC Examiner+++


You don't' have to be paranoid to suspect the ""team insider" is either Vinny or one of his minions protecting his turf.

Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

When asked today about whether he thinks zorn will start changing things up, personel wise and scheme wise cooley said that no, he doesnt think that will happen.

Zorn believes in his scheme and will ride it til he dies.

Apparently that may have been a veiled slight that coach doesnt adjust and wont adjust.

What was it they always said about former QB's as ghead coaches...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

"Nobody should get a free pass on performance just because they're a rookie"

Priceless....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 9, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

I'll say it again.

Zorn is keeping the seat warm for Holmgren. He steps back to Assistant Head Coach - Offense.

Oh come on guys, you don't believe runmo(u)rs do you?

Posted by: Redcoat | December 9, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

The "fire Zorn" rumors have started....

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 1:52 PM

I don't think they JUST started. I think it was the natural transformation of the line from people who thought it was a bad idea in the first place. Just more evidence confirming my (negative) views about the majority of Skins fans (most of you all excluded, of course ... ahem ...).

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

What was it they always said about former QB's as ghead coaches...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

they end up being Steve spurrior

Posted by: jumbo5383 | December 9, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

So should i assume that you have to be a third rounder or better to make it for the skins?or should they take a chance at grooming a guy like they're doing with Heyer?

Posted by: jumbo5383

You should assume that if you want a top line in this league, you cannot simply rely on late round picks and undrafted FAs. If you get a project and he works out, great, but that should definitely not be a planned course of action. Offensive line is not something to get cheap on.

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Russ Grimm is ready to be a head coach. AND HE DOES UNDERSTAND what it means to really HATE DALLAS ... and NOW I have a grudge against Ballimer and Suggs. William Donald Schafer ripped me off so that the city of Ballimer could have a team again. Hey where was he when we lost our baseball team ... helping the verdamned Orioles take full advantage ...

Yeah, I forgot about that ... whoever suggested Grimm has the right idea even over Cowher. I like it. Grimm for Head Coach, Zorn for OC. Hold the fort on defense or make the DC head coach. He deserves it at this point.

On the specials articles. Hopefully the poopity pops on this blog understand why you would keep a Thrash, keep a Torrence, Keep a Khary Campbell and cut draft picks. The specials are critical. Vinnie treats them like an afterthought.

Vinnie needs to go. NOW.

Posted by: periculum | December 9, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Flounder,

Starting offensive linemen in particular are picked on the first day of the draft.
Look at psps post above for confirmation.

Remember the Hogs? Most of them were first day picks. If you try to build your line based on round 4-7 picks I guarantee failure on your part.

Posted by: driley | December 9, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Again, its not Zorn. But he is the head coach, and he knows it. Like being QB, it goes with the territory. The blame, like Richie Petitbone with Charley Casserly, can be laid right at Mr. Cerrato's doorstep. Its really mostly his fault. Not Jim Z's. He has done well with this team given that its his first year.

But I think I'd rather have a head coach that knows how to really hate DALL-ASS, the GINTS, the EGLES, and now BALLIMER.

Posted by: periculum | December 9, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

To compare apples with apples ...

Atlanta Falcons. New QB, New HC, but new GM first. That GM appears to know what he is doing.

Redskins have a good QB. I think a good first year HC, but a really terrible FO led by Vinnie.

Posted by: periculum | December 9, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

dcsween,

I saw the headline about the Gov of Illinois. It amazes me that they think that never will get caught, even when you reach the heights of VP.

Posted by: driley | December 9, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Last thought on Zorn, he doesnt have enough plays, and he tries to vary them during game week which is leading to all of our mental errors.

Remember the gibbs shifting thing. Luckily gibbs wasnt stubborn enough to not cut out the BS and just play ball.

Teams have figured it. You get to JC early and the offense falls apart, get a lead and zorn will abandon the run. Then they come with 8-9 in the box...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

When asked today about whether he thinks zorn will start changing things up, personel wise and scheme wise cooley said that no, he doesnt think that will happen.

Zorn believes in his scheme and will ride it til he dies.


Posted by: Zeebs

It's a good scheme, but why do you think they call it the WEST coast offense?

Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

If Snyder fires Zorn he's a fool. I still remember being pissed when he got rid of Marty after going 8-3 his last 11 games and finishing 8-8. It took Eli a few years to develope and everybody was ready to throw him(and his coach) under the bus. We got to give him another year to figure this HC and playcalling thing out.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 9, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

i agree vegas, but he has shot his load this year... it was a tight timeline... achems razor... the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

Rook HC, gets the job late, never done the job before, spends a lot of time with his QB, and has other thing to do during a game than just call plays... like dominoes, one, two, three

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

As it should be. Nobody should get a free pass on performance just because they're a rookie. Not players, not coaches. Measurable progress is where it's at.

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 1:51 PM

Unless your name is Jason Campbell.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 9, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Several other things that teams have figured out about playing us...

You can run all around and over our defensive ends. Our outside linebackers don't seem to support the run very well now either.

We have one legitimate receiver.

If you stuff the run we have no offense. We have a disturbingly low third down efficiency in the second half of the season.

If your quarterback happens to get sacked, you just defied the statistical odds.

If you score 14 points you probably have to worry about how to run out the clock.

Posted by: driley | December 9, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

skins930, i think JC made great strides this year.

8 games is not a fluke. No QB is good when he doesnt have time or talent to throw to.

Defense knows this so they figure to get to the qb early and often... the last 5 games speak for themselves...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse


+++Starting offensive linemen in particular are picked on the first day of the draft.

Remember the Hogs? Most of them were first day picks. If you try to build your line based on round 4-7 picks I guarantee failure on your part.

Posted by: driley+++


Off tHE top of my head becaUSe I don't believe in research.

Mark May was a first rounder. Russ Grimm a third rounder. Joe Jacoby, the dominAnt and (then) massive OLT was a free agent.

The center was a free agent pick up brought in to be a snapper.

The ORT played for Columbia University, for God's sake, so he Had to be a lower round pick...

The answer is having a personnel man WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING!!!

Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

If Snyder fires Zorn he's a fool. I still remember being pissed when he got rid of Marty after going 8-3 his last 11 games and finishing 8-8. It took Eli a few years to develope and everybody was ready to throw him(and his coach) under the bus. We got to give him another year to figure this HC and playcalling thing out.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan

Should Zorn continue to fall apart the last 3 weeks, it would be the opposite of the Marty situation.

Marty represented progress. He had this team on the right track. They were doing WELL heading into the offseason.

Zorn would represent regression (if this pace continues). He has this team moving backwards. This would be a team that would be FALLING APART heading into the offseason.

Just looking at the records of the two coaches would be a gross over-simplification.

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Unless your name is Jason Campbell.

Posted by: Skins930

He doesn't get a free pass. Measurable progress. Check Campbell's stats from last year to this one.

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Didn't someone say that Portis has the owner's ear? That may not be good for Zorn either.

Posted by: Redcoat | December 9, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

++++Remember the gibbs shifting thing. Luckily gibbs wasnt stubborn enough to not cut out the BS and just play ball.


Posted by: Zeebs +++

Gibbs was FORCED to cut the "shifting thing" because the time between plays was cut down to accelerate the game. It was a GREAT way to desguise the fact he kept running the same plays over and over, but from different formations, and it helped bring the maximum number of blockers to the point of attack.

But I see your point and agree. Zorn's offense is too vanilla and the players too beat up to run it.

Posted by: TheCork | December 9, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Zeebs, I was talking about last year. His play based on PSP's post should not have given him the chance this year.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 9, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Cork.

Russ Grimm was second round (at worst). I recall that they traded up to get him. He was chosen the same day as May. The fortunes of the Skins were set on that draft day. Ahhhh, when sanity still ruled!

They traded a #1 to Oakland to get Lachey a bit later. Was Bostic starting then? I think he was like a 15th rounder from another era. And you are right, Jacoby fell into their laps out of the blue. I think that Starke was a high draft pick.

Posted by: driley | December 9, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

The Owner (and Vinny) need to keep Zorn as the face of the franchise ... They'd be shooting themselves in the face if they don't attempt to squash the rumors. Zorn was just chattering about player confidence ... taking away the coach would undermine that further.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

They traded a #1 to Oakland to get Lachey a bit later

They actually traded Jay Schroeder to get Lachey...

dc, stop being logical, just sit back and enjoy the blog......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 9, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

And I agree about Shottenheimer. He was changing the dynamic of the team to a hard nosed physical team and he finished the season winning games. I think he failed because he had more power than Snyder wanted him to have, especially the ability to chose his own players. Wasn't Vinnie banished during that time?

Posted by: driley | December 9, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone happen to see the post game show on Comcast specifically the interview with Greg Blache when Trevor Mattich asked him about the season long lack of a pass rush? and the D-coordinator smart ass answer which was absolutely uncalled for and totally unprofessional no cursing from Blache mind you but a real knuckle head answer now what's that all about?

Posted by: dargregmag | December 9, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

People can complain about JLC all they want but the guys at the Times do a lot more subversive rumor starting overall.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what it means about my relationship with Dan Snyder that I'm ignoring this cacaphony of suggestions that he should or might fire Zorn after this season...

Could it possibly be that I actually kind of almost sorta trust Snyder to stay the course, at least for another season?

Or is it just wishful thinking that he's permanently cast aside his obnoxious, impatient, meddlesome ways?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 9, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I did not think what he sad was smartass at all

Posted by: alex35332 | December 9, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Grimm was a 3rd. Bostic and Jacoby were UFA. Starke was a late pick (11th or 12th round). 'Skins traded Jay Schroeder for Lachey (I believe the correct phrase for that is they stole the Raiders in the mouth).

I can not abide [where's Dorf?] with the fire Jim Zorn movement/rumor/crazy talk.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 9, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence sold his soul to the devil in exchange for his rugged good looks and unparalleled special teams ability. Shortly after the transaction was finalized, Leigh blindsided the devil and took his soul back. The devil, who appreciates irony, couldn't stay mad and admitted he should have seen it coming. They now play poker every second Wednesday of the month.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 9, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

JC could be a good NFL QB. My problem with JC is that he cannot read defenses at the line of scrimmage, before the snap. He never seems to know where the ball NEEDS to go before the snap. Never knows who the "hot receiver" is before the snap.

Yes the rush gets to him too soon, but he needs to know where the free receiver is going to be. And he has no peripheral vision to see the rush and move around in the pocket to avoid it. That also hurts him in seeing his other receivers, which leads to him locking on to one receiver.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 9, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

BTW, the only 1st rounder picked on the Hogs OL was Mark May. Selected to be the premier guy, left tackle. Ended up at right tackle, eventually replaced by an undrafted free agent. After he was supplanted by undrafted free agent Joe Jacoby at left tackle. ~smiles~

Now, Lachey was EXTREMELY RARE. A Gallery type. And he was a 1st round pick in Oakland. He replaced Jacoby, due to age, who moved to right tackle. Lots of backups who could have started on other teams.

Posted by: periculum | December 9, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

A blind man once stepped on Leigh Torrence's shoe. Leigh replied, "Don't you know who I am? I'm Leigh Torrence!" The mere mention of his name cured this man's blindness. Sadly the first, last, and only thing this man ever saw, was a fatal blindside delivered by Leigh Torrence.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 9, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

With our season virtually over, I guess it's time to pretend we're the Redskins GM (if Vinny can play make believe, why can't the hamsters?)

Here's my master GM 2 year plan that 9 out of 10 will say is idiotic:

Cut: Kendall, Jansen, Thomas, Thrash, Davis, Suisham, Griffin, Taylor, Washington, Springs, Doughty

FA by position:
OG
DE
K
P
LB
Safety (depth)
CB (depth)
C (depth)

Draft:
OT
OG
DT
LB

(remember, this is over 2 years)

Posted by: jgarrisn | December 9, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

I was trying to recall from the deep, deep depths of memory about the draft of Grimm and Lachey's acquisition. Obviously, there are pitfalls in that process. :)

Posted by: driley | December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

MARVIN LEWIS SAYS CARSON PALMER COULD PLAY
Posted by Michael David Smith on December 9, 2008, 10:09 a.m.

The Cincinnati Bengals are 1-11-1, and an injured elbow has kept quarterback Carson Palmer out for more than two months.

But that doesn’t mean the Bengals are ready to rule Palmer out for the final three games of the season.

Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said on Monday that Palmer probably won’t need surgery on the elbow, and that he’s still hoping to get back on the field this year.

“He’d like an opportunity to play if he’s healthy and well,” Lewis said, per the Cincinnati Enquirer. “What football players do is they play football.”

Lewis added that Palmer has been throwing on the practice field.

“He had a good week last week throwing the football,” Lewis said. “He did well on everything he’s done so far. He’s had none of the issues he was dealing with before.

He’s excited about it, and so we’ll continue to allow him to throw further and harder with more regularity.”

The Bengals’ last three games are home against the Redskins Sunday, at Cleveland on December 21 and home against the Chiefs on December 28.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

+++“The (Zorn) honeymoon is definitely over,” said one team insider of Redskins owner Dan Snyder and Zorn.--_DC Examiner+++

That just sounds like the answer to a loaded question.

Assuming that was actually said by a "real" person, it was probably taken out of context for greater emphasis in order to make the story.

Got any more quotes than this?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

So, cut a 2nd round pick in Davis before seeing what he can do?

Good plan....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse actually live in Leigh Torrence's nutsack.

God offered Leigh Torrence the gift to fly, which he swiftly declined for super strength special teams ability.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 9, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

sheesh ... Drafted "hogs":

1982 : Mark May 1st round
Russ Grimm 3rd round
Clint Didier 12th round

1985: Terry Orr 10th round
Raleigh McKenzie 11th round

1989: Mark Schlereth 10th round

There were others drafted in the 2nd and 3rd like Mo Elwonibi. They never made the grade.
The undrafted FA's and FA's filled out the rest.

Posted by: periculum | December 9, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

couple reason jgar;

cap, cap, cap and oh yeah, cap.. even over two years.


I say drop all the 'depth' we have since it wont be a cap hit and pick up premier starters at

RT
LG
LOLB
2nd WR
DT

Then if 2010 is uncapped, drop all the peeps who are old like Samuels, Thomas, MW, SS etc... and those who dont pan out of those high price FA's and start over, un capped.

Or if there is a CBA, we will have to blow it up anyway and it will take more time to rebuild, maybe the right way.

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

alex, when you say rumor do you mean rumor or people commenting as in "i want zorn fired" or "i think zorn will get fired" from no credible source.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 9, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

*** FF ***

Lost my FF game by 121-116 to Forrest. It was Forrest's highest scoring game all year and so he goes to the championship game vs Zornskins, who has been #1 in our league all year.

I went back and looked at how close this was and how strange FF results can be. And my conclusion is that Forrest was both very good and very lucky. Its remarkable how many close calls and odd results went with Forrest.

1. I lost an amazing 17 points in kicking. Matt Bryant missed a 40yd FG -- hit the friggin upright, costing me 5 points. He also had an extra point blocked, costing me 2 more. Forrest had the jints special teams and they blocked 2 FGs, returning 1 for a TD, resulting in 10 more points for the jints special teams.

2. LenDale White had 100 yards on the day, but lost 1 yard on his last carry, on 4th and 1 at the 2. That 1 lost yard cost me 2 FF points. Of course, if he had scored, it would have been 8 more points for me.

3. Larry Fitzgerald got stopped at the 1 yard line in his game. 1 more yard is 6 more FF points

4. Both White and Owen Daniels coughed up a fumble, resulting in 4 lost points.

5. Rivers, my QB, had 19 yards rushing. On the last play, the Chargers, he could have easily snuck for a yard to run out the clock, but handed off instead. 1 missed point on that.

6. DeAngelo Williams had a monster game, but it could have been bigger if he had gotten the carries inside the 5 yard line -- as he had been previously. Instead, they went to Jonathan Stewart, who got 2 short TD runs and 12 points.

7. Forrest got a bonus point for a 40 yard TD reception. 39 yards gets no bonus point. DeAngelo Williams had a 40 yard run, a 41 yard run and a 36 yard TD run, but got no bonus point for any of them.

All told, if the FF gods had been with me, meaning LenDale scores fron the 2 instead of losing a yard, Fitzgerald scores a TD instead of getting stopped at the 1. Matt Bryant makes his kicks instead of hitting the upright. No fumbles. And Williams gets 1 of the 2 close-in TDs, I would have had a crazy point total of 157 -- the league record is 138 (I think)

*** end FF ***

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 9, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

When is the "Vinnie" honeymoon over?

Posted by: periculum | December 9, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

One too many GO

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

"Zorn was just chattering about player confidence ... taking away the coach would undermine that further.

Posted by: dcsween"

The team never seemed to have player confidence problems under Gibbs. Late season runs in '05 and '07 evidence that. If there's a confidence problem between the players and the scheme, that is a problem that should NOT be ignored.

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

... My problem with JC is that he cannot read defenses at the line of scrimmage, before the snap. He never seems to know where the ball NEEDS to go before the snap. Never knows who the "hot receiver" is before the snap. ... but he needs to know where the free receiver is going to be. And he has no peripheral vision to see the rush and move around in the pocket to avoid it. That also hurts him in seeing his other receivers, which leads to him locking on to one receiver.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 9, 2008 2:28 PM

This is crazy talk. Empirically it is impossible for anyone by the perceiver (Jason Campbell) to know what he does or does not see or know or anticipate in the moments before it happens. Translation: This is crazy talk.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

The Singletary 49'ers are 5 and 8. They could have the same record as the Skins when they meet at the end of the year.

Posted by: periculum | December 9, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

... If there's a confidence problem between the players and the scheme, that is a problem that should NOT be ignored.

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 2:39 PM

I don't think Zorn was ignoring it, but I also think that wasn't the confidence part he was talking about ... he was talking about trying to avoid the players thinking they weren't a good team based on things like ... their recent performances.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Torrence - 8 tackles with NO. 16 with Redskins in '08.
Tryon - 4 total tackles.
Is Tryon going to turn into a better player? Maybe. Should they have kept Torrence and signed Tryon to the practice squad while waiting for that to happen? Yes.

Posted by: filmjoy | December 9, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

For those who think an o-line needs to be made up of high draft picks, go look at the jints o-line. If I recall from last week, 1 guy was a round 5 pick and 2 were undrafted. And that is a very good line

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Only an idiot would cut Springs. He isn't easily replaced. Its like getting rid of Jaon's special teams favorite.

Thomas has been hurt more than Kendall. Perhaps you cut him?

Posted by: periculum | December 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

it's absolutely silly to fire zorn before firing vinny. silly silly silly

Posted by: dealer1 | December 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Damb ... something I was bidding for on eBay just got taken down ... U.S. Senate seat in Illinois ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Don't worry, dc, it will probably be relisted. Just a little more hush-hush, this time.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Replaced wherre peri, the bench?

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

The Singletary 49'ers are 5 and 8.

Posted by: periculum | December 9, 2008 2:40 PM

Singletary's team is 3-2. 5-8 is the combined record of Nolan and Singletary this season.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence can speak braile

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 9, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"Zeebs, I was talking about last year. His play based on PSP's post should not have given him the chance this year.

Posted by: Skins930"

Campbell showed progress throughout last year as well. It culminated in his week 11 performance of throwing for 348 yards and 2 TDs @Dallas (even if he came up short in the end). Solid progress for a 1st year starter.

Posted by: psps23 | December 9, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

"Torrence - 8 tackles with NO. 16 with Redskins in '08.
Tryon - 4 total tackles.
Is Tryon going to turn into a better player? Maybe. Should they have kept Torrence and signed Tryon to the practice squad while waiting for that to happen? Yes.

Posted by: filmjoy"

Leigh Torrence - 8 tackles with NO, 16 with Redskins in '08
DeAngelo Hall - off the top of my head 2 picks and 1 fumble recovery in what, 4 games with the Redskins

Before :

1) Springs
2) Rogers
3) Smoot
4) Torrence
5) Tryon

Immedaitely after :

1) Springs
2) Rogers
3) Smoot
4) Hall
5) Tryon

Now :

1) Springs
2) Rogers
3) Hall
4) Smoot
5) Tryon

which would YOU rather have? Tryon was cheaper and he was signed for a longer period. No brainer.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 9, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

periculum, Springs won't be cut. He just won't be re-signed.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

This is crazy talk. Empirically it is impossible for anyone by the perceiver (Jason Campbell) to know what he does or does not see or know or anticipate in the moments before it happens. Translation: This is crazy talk.

Posted by: dcsween | December 9, 2008 2:39 PM

Not crazy talk. It's called film study. Seeing what defenses do in certain packages. I see QB finding the hot receiver many times and JC just doesn't do it.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 9, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Zorn is regressing and Shotty was progressing but I still think you give Zorn and Vinny another year and if they don't "get it" then move on. See what this years(2008) draft turns into. Sure Shotty was fired because he had too much power. Same thing happened to him in San Diego and look where they are now. Another Norv Turner homocide. What we REALLY NEED is an owner that will hire people to run his business and fire them for failing(Jack Kent Cooke style) instead of an owner who wants to run the team, too. Forget about Cowher(one Super Bowl in 15 years, would this satisfy you? It wouldn't me)if Zorn doesnt go 10-6 next year clean house and hire Shotty back(if Cleveland doesn't sign him first)and enough talk about us making the playoff this year. Our o-line ain't getting any better in the next three weeks!!

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 9, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Portis sounds very pissed off at our coaching staff!

Posted by: Soup17 | December 9, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

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Customer Care??? come on...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

what just happened?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 9, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I was with you jack until you said andy reid.... he calls run plays on 3 and 6 when his team runs the ball 3 times a game and averages .8 yards a carry.

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

maybe so, but he's never had a back like CP, who knows, but you can't argue with his success, the Eagles have dominated this division since 2000 up until last year he can't all of a sudden be a no talent hack

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Portis IS PISSED!!!

Posted by: Soup17 | December 9, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

He can when he is eating away his sorrows cause his kids are SJK ups.... you like that one?

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Skins930, I agreed: Campbell and accuracy are about related as OJ Simpson and innocence. What happens if Chase Daniels or Percy Harvin fall to the Skins in a draft where everyone linemen? I'm taking Harvin as the Skins would benefit from a speed guy who can start on day 1. The line issues can be solved in FA.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 9, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

CP IS KILLING IT...

BYE BYE JZ!

CP JUST CUSSED!!

AND I HEARD IT ON THE RADIO!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 9, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Portis is on the John Thompson show dropping S* bombs A$$ bombs in his discussion about how the coaches said he wasn't ready to play.

Posted by: Soup17 | December 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

I knew this calling players out in the media was going to blow up in his face. Well there goes the last 3 games. It was totally damn stupid of Zorn to do that.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Jim ZORN IS GONE....

WOW! Wow......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

please soup, transcribe!!!!

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

how they going to pull a thread

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 9, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

I Suggest EVERONE LISTEN TO THIS. I DON'T EVEN PLAY AND I FEEL LIKE PORTIS.

THANK YOU PORTIS. THANK YOU.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 9, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

CP is jacked!

Posted by: Down777866 | December 9, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

can we get some exact quotes?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 9, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is gone!

Say what you want...Zorn is gone. If you are hearing this interview then you know that Portis just fired the coach.

Portis is SO incredibly pissed off it is amazing. He basically said if you don't want me sit my ass down. That is your decision AS A COACH.

Calling out Zorn. Portis hates Zorn and I guarantee that reflects the entire team sentiment. THIS IS OUR TEAMS PROBLEM. IT IS NOT AT THE FOREFRONT! ZORN HAS LOST CONTROL AND PORTIS HAS EXPOSED IT ON THE JOHN THOMPSON SHOW!!

Posted by: Soup17 | December 9, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Give details 4th.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 9, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Like another Zorn we know, he was on top of the world....but his stay was brief.

Posted by: Gweez | December 9, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Maybe I'm the problem, b/c I don't practice and I don't know what is going on. Maybe I need to be on IR.

Posted by: Soup17 | December 9, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Portis said earlier said he'll be able to practice this week BECAUSE HE DIDN'T PLAY AGAINST BMORE's DEFENSE...

Basically he said he didn't get a chance to get beat up!!

Bye JZ....

Portis said you might as well put him on IR if you ain't gonna play him...

He accussed JZ of lying and some more SJK!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 9, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Zorn fighting with CP is about as stupid as me fighting with my wife, even though I may be right, its not worth it, cause your life is miserable regardless and everyone will side with her. CP is a made man with this owner and carried this team on his back the first 10 weeks, saying he can't go when he says he can as a rookie head coach, Zorn has no shot at winning that fight even if CP should be sitting.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 9, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Where's that pulled blog post about the future? Could JZ's days be numbered?

Posted by: Down777866 | December 9, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

can someone transcribe what CP is saying....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 9, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Wait, I missed it, darn it! what exactly did CP say?

Posted by: rachel216 | December 9, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Basically Portis is saying that no one has communicated anything to him. He has been given no explanation. He doesn't understand or believe the reasoning for why he did not play on Sunday. Said that they can't decide what they want. Sometimes they want him to help block and now he is being called out for blocking too much and not getting out for passes. He said he will play his game no matter what for his teammates sake but it's on Zorn to figure out what he wants and how to use him.

Posted by: Skins211 | December 9, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

JM220 - Too much to fast too good to give too many details....

Let me compose myself cuz I feel like he feels....

Portis: Don't point the finger.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 9, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

that post is now back, so beep

Posted by: Zeebs | December 9, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Ahhh. That was sooooo refreshing.

Portis said they acting like he is the only one who isn't practicing then playing.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 9, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Holly Crap!!

PORTIS is the MAN!!!

I LOVE THE DUDE!!
I LOVE CP!!
CP!!! CP!!! CP!!!
CP!!!

CP just called Zorn out w/out calling him out! We all heard you CP!

Posted by: Soup17 | December 9, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

He accussed JZ of lying and some more SJK!

Posted by: 4thFloor

Damn! This is about to get really ugly man. And there is no question that CP not only carried the team on his back this year but last year as well. Zorn just F himself big time.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 9, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I said it when it happened during the game: If Zorn has CP on the sideline and he's NOT injured, then my estimation of Zorn has dropped several notches.

CP is not T.O., Randy Moss, or some other head case who cries when he doesn't get the ball or puts himself before the team. So why - if you're Zorn - do you want to try and squash what CP is: a tough-as-nails player who puts everything out there each week (if some of his teammates were doing the same, the Redskins wouldn't be 7-6 right now)?

I don't know.

It's unbelievable.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 9, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

When asked what the Skins need to do Portis said Zorn is a so-called genius so he should figure it out or have the answers. Gave the hint that Zorn is giving way too much for the offense and Campbell. He said there is 25 protection schemes and that might be why the o-line gets confused because it is a lot to know for all of them. CLEARLY saying Zorn overthinks things. Lack of communication across the board and no accountability are the issues according to Portis. He was clearly pissed dropping a couple profanities. Finished with saying if he is not helping the team then just put him on IR so he can heal. They have gotten away from the run so he isn't able to help. He guarantees he knows all the plays and schemes and also said if he can't play when he doesn't practice then let him go to the training room and get treatment rather than standing in the cold.

Posted by: Skins211 | December 9, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

No accountability, huh? Where's Joe Gibbs when you need him? Isn't he an advisor or something? He needs to have a little chat with JZ.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 9, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

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