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Guest Blog: A Fan's-Eye View

Every so often, Jason "Jasno" LaCanfora likes to turn this here space over to Redskins fans for guest blogs. He and I feel it's important to let the folks who pay the freight have a forum; today we yield the floor to Royce Jeffrey.

Loyalty vs. Money
The Tale of Pittsburgh vs Washington

Never before have I had a problem with a camera. I will even offer my services to a couple that is desperately trying to hold the camera at arms length for lack of a willing photographer for their moment of togetherness. That all changed as soon as a 20 something smart mouth Pittsburgh fan had the nerve to request my picture-taking services. I laughed in her face and asked her if she was out of her mind. She fired a few monosyllabic insults in my face, that weren't even a pinch on the arm compared to her Steelers destruction of my beloved Skins on the field.

But she was not the only one. No, not by far. She had friends, and they had friends, and they wore jerseys, and others wore hats, and they all swung those sickening yellow towels over their heads the entire game. Even if I was dying of heat exhaustion and I could be saved by being cooled off, I would rather die than have that terrible towel waved over me.

If Washington as a city is a good heated verbal argument, Pittsburgh is a fistfight. If Washington is the guy who has been wed two or three times, Pittsburgh is the 40-year marriage. If Washington is a rum and Coke, Pittsburgh is a 40-ounce malt liquor. From the wrought-iron bridges in Pittsburgh to the elegant stone carved ones in Washington, the two towns do not share much in common. It was unfortunate that they had to share a stadium on Monday night, and even more unfortunate that the Redskins fans allowed it to happen. If Pittsburgh is Loyalty, the Redskins are Money.

The Redskins are their money. They are the top money-making franchise in the NFL, but you don't hear fans running from bar to bar boasting about how much money their franchise makes. In pro football, money does not equal bragging rights.

The Redskins have made the full transition from the heart and soul of the league to its pen and checkbook. Making money is now more important to the franchise than making history. The deep burgundy of the Redskins has been bled almost completely out of the stadium, leaving them with nothing but a pale white canvas for any other opposing teams to come and paint their colors on for the cameras to see. The gold that is left goes straight into the owner's pockets. So why shouldn't the fans' pocket be filled even if they don't fill their seats?

From RFK Stadium all the way back to Griffith Stadium over 50 years ago, it was a family. Few opposing teams fans dared to infiltrate their confines. It meant something to be a Redskin, and it meant something to be a Redskins fan. Nowadays the players are gone as soon as their 2-3 year contracts run out, and coaches last about as long as a high-school relationship. The Redskins are missing loyalty, unless you count being loyal to mediocrity. Monte Coleman was a Redskin exclusively for 16 years. Darrell Green stayed with the team for 18 years. Art Monk trekked to RFK for 13 straight years, as did Joe Jacoby, who was drafted a Redskin and who retired a Redskin: cradle to the grave.

Then again, that's in line with how the City of Washington operates. Washington looks like FedEx Field, full of everything but Washingtonians. The longevity of residence that a town like Pittsburgh boasts is completely lacking in D.C. Living in Washington might as well just be a long airport layover compared to living in Pittsburgh.

Is the stadium too big for its recently mediocre team? Ninety-plus thousand seats are difficult to fill anywhere, let alone with exclusively home-team fans. Speaking to my Ohio State-obsessed roommate, I brought up the issue of opposing fans in Ohio Stadium, which holds 102,000 fans. After taking off his Scarlet and Gray oven mitts, he let me know that it would be considered treason to let more than a light sprinkling of visitors ever wipe their feet off on the unwelcoming mat of Ohio Stadium's front door. So why are the Redskins so susceptible to the attack of visitors?

Could it just be the area? I recall seeing a fight break out between a Mets and a Phillies fan. The fists flying wasn't nearly as big a shock as the fact that the game took place at Nationals Park, and neither team was playing!

So the Redskins lost to the Steelers 23-6. This on its own is disturbing; however, what the fans around me were most worried about was the fans around them.

"Thirty-three years I have been waiting for these seats", obviously referring to his whole life, said a 30something-year-old man in a voice hoarse and spent from screaming instructions to deaf Redskins ears. Another man in front of me with gray hair pouring out from underneath his country club insignia blazoned baseball cap, proclaimed that he had the tickets for 52 years, and that he has gone to game ever since his dad passed away 40 years ago.

Happy to have an argument that didn't involve backing up their team's pathetic on-field performance, both men decided to take the battle off the field. They turned their ire on the fans that sold their tickets to the enemy. The Greeks now didn't even need a large wooden horse to get inside the Walls of Troy; they were simply just sold tickets to enter.

Surrounding Pittsburgh fans took offense to this, as they like to do. Gladly engaging in the fight, they argued that a fan could do whatever they want with their money, including selling their tickets for however much money they wanted.

I would have to agree that once a fan has tickets, then he has earned the right to sell them for however much he likes, much like Redskins owner Dan Snyder. Pittsburgh is a short drive, and to be fair, their fans are the best travelers this side of Lebron James. On the other-hand, where is the loyalty? It was the 50-yard line in the lower section. These people have had tickets in their family sometimes even longer than they've been in it. Who knows? The man who has season tickets could have been in Seattle for the last five years for his work and could have been selling them. Even on a national scale, jobs get sent overseas that Americans used to hold for years all because it's easier to make a dollar off other labor.

The more opposing fans, the more arguments, the more fights, the more the battles turn to the stands rather than on the field.

When talking to the 50-year-old man with the grey hair in front of me, he told me about a past contest with the New York Giants. "Their fans were all over the stadium, and you better believe they all had something to say, especially since they beat us out by about two touchdowns. They were being obnoxious the entire game, but I got the chance to talk to a couple of them behind me for a few minutes. 'We could never get away with acting like this in another city like Philadelphia or Pittsburgh, your fans here are nice!'"

As the saying goes, when the cat's away, the mice will play. The cats left a long time ago, and they took the fans, the wins, and the championship rings with them. The Redskins are nothing more than a pale image of their former glory. The stadium got bigger, the prices went up, and the drive got longer. The basketball Bullets/Wizards used to play next door to where the Redskins play now at FedEx field. The venue was called Capital Centre, then it switched names to USAir Arena. But just as soon as their arena was renamed, they relocated to D.C. for convenience and improved local prominence.

The Redskins did the opposite. Desperate for more box seats, parking spaces, carpeted seats, and imported beer, the Skins moved out. It has never felt like home. FedEx field just feels like an enormous spaceship that landed out in the country that could take off back to Planet Heartless at any moment. We all loved the mall, but did it ever top the friendly corner store? Although it's sappy, I just watch the movie "You've Got Mail" and you will see the local bookshop getting wiped out by the big Barnes and Nobles-esque corporate bookstore.

The question floats in the air ready for anyone to grab, like a fourth-quarter Hail-Mary pass. And there is just as much desperation in it as ever. Is this just a fluke, or are we truly seeing the death of the home-field? The world keeps getting smaller and smaller by the day. Why shouldn't people sell tickets for a big game like Dallas or Pittsburgh in which they can make up their costs for almost the entire season?

On the other hand, can we fault the players for just jumping around looking for the next biggest paycheck if that's how we the fans operate as well? The Redskins haven't exactly been World Champs for the last 15 years or so, but hey, just because your kid misbehaves doesn't mean you're going straight down to the adoption agency. I think in these changing times, a stadium full of your own home fans is a dying concept, just like the lateral pass or the drop kick field goal. It is dying unless the fans are willing to fight for it. That question remains to be answered; hopefully the team will give them something to fight for.

By Cindy Boren  |  November 15, 2008; 8:00 AM ET
 
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Next: Arrington on Gibbs: Part II

Comments

Calm down. Football is for fun you big stupid jerk.

Posted by: MonkMossMann | November 15, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

this isn't the FIRST source to point this out...interesting points to be sure but most of this has been rehashed ad nauseum

Posted by: hailbg | November 15, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Did Leigh Torrence tell you to write this?
The Steelers have the best fans in the NFL and they travel very well. They also hadn't played in DC in long time so their fans who lived around here bought tickets. Skins fans are better than average. So back off and write about Snyder and JKC and their money. Oh and you over simplified the cities - pitt doesn't even have steel anymore.

Posted by: MonkMossMann | November 15, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Seems like a LONG and thoughtful glog. Can't say for sure b/c I have the attention span of a hamster and started scrolling after the first paragraph. Maybe I'll come back to it later, after coffee, after peeps cut and paste bits of it for commentarying. Still, I appreciate the effort (and envy the endurance).

Posted by: dcsween | November 15, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

... Skins fans are better than average. ...

Posted by: MonkMossMann | November 15, 2008 9:26 AM

Behaviorally and sportsmanship-wise, Skins fans are only a half step above Eagles' fans ... 31st out of 32. Not sure what the glogger said, but I probably agree if his point was that Skins fans are the reason not to take a kid to a game at FedEx.

[I've been wanting to say this for a while, but bringing it up out of context would only be hurtful. In context, it is how I feel.]

Posted by: dcsween | November 15, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

A few noted comments...

* While this was very well written and very thoughtful, I am not sure why we have to continue this beat down? We get it...there were a lot of Steelers fans. I live in Dallas, and I go to the Skins game every year. And hear the same complaints about Cowboy fans..."Why were there so many Redskin fans?"

* This is why the Leigh Torrance string has taken on a life of its own. Because of the constant hammering of a singular point. This is now almost 2 weeks old. It is also Dallas week. Guess what..there will be alot of Cowboy fans at FedEx there tomorrow night. Will we have another week of posts about that?

* I understand that we up here in the RI Blog want posts....probably more than we deserve !! However, IMHO, I would rather have another Portis/Romo/injury/Special Temas report (that doesn't include LT) than ANOTHER Skins fans suck.

Posted by: cej75024 | November 15, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

A few noted comments...

* While this was very well written and very thoughtful, I am not sure why we have to continue this beat down? We get it...there were a lot of Steelers fans. I live in Dallas, and I go to the Skins game every year. And hear the same complaints about Cowboy fans..."Why were there so many Redskin fans?"

* This is why the Leigh Torrance string has taken on a life of its own. Because of the constant hammering of a singular point. This is now almost 2 weeks old. It is also Dallas week. Guess what..there will be alot of Cowboy fans at FedEx there tomorrow night. Will we have another week of posts about that?

* I understand that we up here in the RI Blog want posts....probably more than we deserve !! However, IMHO, I would rather have another Portis/Romo/injury/Special Temas report (that doesn't include LT) than ANOTHER Skins fans suck.

Posted by: cej75024 | November 15, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

AMEN!!!

Also before the Synder bashing gets going. Synder didn't move the team, or build the stadium.

Posted by: Lacantwrite | November 15, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

What everyone fails to realize is that sellers of tickets do not have a say in who buys them. At all.

They are sold by a broker (stubhub) to whoever will pay for them. Relax, it is tough economic times and peeps are trying to recoup costs.

I have never had to announce my allegiance when buying tickets.

You want something to complain about, its those 50 year old coutry club wearing softies who dont SCREAM when the d is on the field. Too many poeple are there to do business or 'enjoy' the experience. Sorry bub, watch on TV if you want to enjoy. You have a job as a fan if you come to the staium. If you are not hoarse when you leave, you have failed at your job.

Barno can attest to my prowess in that regard..

And you dont have to resort to simple assault to prove your point to an opposing fan. You wanna emulate philly fans, i feel sorry for you.

Posted by: Zeebs | November 15, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

This never would have been an issue if we took care of business on the field.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | November 15, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, the article was quite wordy just to make that point, but I kinda agree...and its not just football. Its Redskins football and the sucky attitude of "Waaa! Its just football. Calm down ya big jerk." is exactly what the author was talking about which tells me the person calling him/ her a jerk is prob. one of the many sell-outs that sold their tickets. Maybe not, who knows, but yeah, they have the right, like I have the right to go out and do a lot of common things but i dont because I love my family and friends and I wouldnt sell them out or embarace them like that. Its in that sense that it was wrong. I watched from home and was ashamed and embarresed for the the actual team and the "true and loyal fan base". Ya know....it was just wrong. I imagine their are many true and loyal fans out there still and until now I felt secure that we were the best fans in the league, but I was left wondering. A BIG game like that where they needed our support the most and the fans werent there, in stadium atleast.

I dont have tickets but got to go to my first game/ preseason and loved it/ against Buffalo, it was cool, awesome, the two cheeleaders at the door(Dawn-Im STILL crushin on You girl...glory to God ..whew!).

I hope I make it to more. No dis-respect to anybody but ya know...our guys in thier OWN HOME had to go to a silent count. This is Redskin Nation, were supposed to be a family I thought, the best in the league, and I hope that was just a fluke happening, and NEVER, NEVER, EVER happens again man. Our boys were like"what the freak, ya know, whats up? I thought we were at home." I had no idea I would type this much.For those that want to criticise and critique my comments I dont claim to be a pro typist, spelling B winner, an english grammar expert, but instead just an authority on what Redskin Nation has been and I hope still is and in me allways will be....a tight, back up each other(espec. the team itself), tight family. We need to me there as oft as we can for family reunion know what Im sayin.....Lets hurt Dallas's feelings another time, time and move on...together..and hopefully that travesty and betrayal will never happen again.

Redskin for Life baby, regardless the record, regardless the strife, we will have another trophy, another ring, one day, yes, one day soon!!!!! so let it be written, So let it be done!!!

Posted by: ebbline | November 15, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Zeebs does make good point too!

Posted by: ebbline | November 15, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

If the Skins Score to TD's instead of Feild Goals to start the Game, no one would notice.

Posted by: phatem | November 15, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Look, Monday night, in this area peeps have to work in the AM tuesday. you dont get out of thge stadium til 1, then you dont get outta the traffic and home for another 2 hours.

On top of that, one could sell those tix for good money which helps offset costs of the other games.

And it wasnt the boys or a divisional game.

Everyone is getting way too caught up in the hype.

Simple economics. Lets not just the gun without logically looking at why it happaned. To do otherwise would be reacting emotionally and thats what girls do (no offense cindy, lisa, suzzanne and any otehr femnale friedns.)

Posted by: Zeebs | November 15, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Sween, I also hear you about the kids. At the zona game, a Dad had his two young daughters there for the first time. We breifly discussed it. Said it was great etc...

I told him, as I tell every father who has kids around me, to let me know if I say something without realizing.

I also tell the stuffy guy to let me know if i yell too loud for his tastes (in a sarcastic way).

I love my team, and I try to keep it clean. I sream and yell. I do say idiot a lot, and hope to not let a profanity slip.

Stupid, dumass, other semi indecent language.

But as Cooley told everyone on his blog about leaving Philly on the busses, our kids shouldnt flick off the opposing team as they ride by.

We have more class and intelligence as fans than the whole of philly put together (and I live in York Co PA, so I know).

But I have seen plenty stupid skins fans at games. It cant be hel[ped. That much alcohol and testosterone... it is bound to happen.

Posted by: Zeebs | November 15, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Lets not just the gun without logically looking at why it happaned.

That's kind of awesome, Zeebs.

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | November 15, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

How about posts like....

* a look at the last 3-4 years of cowboy games..

* will the running game change with betts vs portis...will certain plays be eliminated because of different styles?

* how will roy williams starting opposite TO effect the boys pass attack?

no....instead..."Boy there sure were a lot of Stteler fans there 2 WEEKS ago!"

Posted by: cej75024 | November 15, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence doesn't turn his clock back an hour in October,he has always been ahead of his time.

Posted by: smittdiddy | November 15, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

But I have seen plenty stupid skins fans at games. It cant be helped. That much alcohol and testosterone ... it is bound to happen.

Posted by: Zeebs | November 15, 2008 10:40 AM

I guess it depends on the parents, but Skins fans make what otherwise should be a PG-13 game (due to volume alone) into an R game. Because I hate having to explain Skins fan behavior to kids (like the guy cheering when an opposing player gets injured), whether the kids are mine or a friend's, I say it should be NC-17 at FedEx (or maybe NC-14).

Just like there are many Pittsburgh expats living in greater DC, there are peeps from all over the place who become Skins fans ... which makes for the kind of highway driving culture we have here ... and the highest rates of road rage outside of LA.

Posted by: dcsween | November 15, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

No No No nothing new,
I won season tickets in 1983, I think the most dominant Skins team, & went to every home game. The first game that year a Monday nite Dalles affiar lost 31/30, one of the greatest game I have ever seen, don't forget this was the year we beat Oakland at home after being down 17 at the 1/2 (showed our whole play book, rocket screen in the Superbowl). The point is I was amazed at the number of "boy" fans at that game. This was one of if not the best Skin team ever at the "hallowed" RFK & it was maybe more then 1/3 full of obnoxious enemey fans. Nothing new!!

Posted by: mdepo | November 15, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse

B-0-R-I-N-G

Posted by: chrislarry | November 15, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse

so is your mother

Posted by: mdepo | November 15, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Also before the Synder bashing gets going. Synder didn't move the team, or build the stadium.

Posted by: Lacantwrite | November 15, 2008 10:14 AM

The Owner spends his Saturday mornings online and posting under the name Lacantwrite.

Posted by: dcsween | November 15, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"The Redskins have made the full transition from the heart and soul of the league to its pen and checkbook."

The move from football-first to profit-first happened quite a while ago, Royce. The reason you're just now seeing it in FedEx the way you describe is because Snyder is reaching the bottom of one of the assets he purchased with the team -- fan devotion, aka the season ticket waiting list. The closer we get to the end of the list, the higher percentage of ticket speculators and casual fans there'll be.

Snyder has turned gameday into a money-making proposition. You don't have to look on message boards long to see how parking (remember the attempted pedestrian ban?), lack of shuttles, Kangaroo TV and lack of on-jumbotron scores, etc to see other ways profit's crept in.

Money has no team favorite. Now that money has replaced devotion in a serious way, you're seeing tickets chase the dollar instead of the team.

Posted by: WorstSeat | November 15, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

@worst: I can't remember where, but I heard someone opine that the NFL wasn't far away from a pay-per-view model. Not sure that I believe it, but it would certainly fall in line with your way of thinking on the matter.

That said: Do we know if Jansen or Heyer is starting? Depending on run vs. pass balance, one is clearly better than the other

Posted by: AppleScience | November 15, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I discount the travel well theory and simply believe there are many Steelers fans living in the DC area...

Posted by: siris | November 15, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

To correct something Zeebs wrote earlier, not all tickets are sold through a broker. Plenty of tickets get sold with no middleman, be it through Craig's List, eBay, classifieds, etc. While shopping for tickets for next week's game against the Seahawks, I saw several sellers on Craig's List who insisted that the buyer be Seahawks fans.

I'm not sure how you enforce such a thing -- "Uhh...sure I'm a Seahawks fan. Got Largent on my fantasy team and everything." -- but at least they were making an effort.

Posted by: freakzilla | November 15, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

siris, i think it was a lethal combo of both....steelers do travel well as evidenced by other games/stadiums...but agree lots of western PA transplants in DMV.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 15, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Royce,

A few verbal excesses notwithstanding, it's a good piece of writing. But like a growing number of others around here, I couldn't disagree more with the premise.

Here's another way to look at it:

http://www.theomfield.com/2008/11/crowdgate-butt-out.html

Posted by: OmSteven | November 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

That said: Do we know if Jansen or Heyer is starting? Depending on run vs. pass balance, one is clearly better than the other

Posted by: AppleScience | November 15, 2008 11:41 AM

That info is given at a Redskins Insider site...

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 15, 2008 12:11 PM | Report abuse

whateves, steelers game/fans in rearview....gotta look forward! Sunday night....!!!

my newborn's Skins onsie came last night, my Dad will be in town. We are ready!!!!!

Skins spank the Pukes, fans scream their heads off, youtube clips of boys fans fighting in stand...all will be right with the world!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea_GWs2W794

Posted by: chrislarry | November 15, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for that link,
chRIsLarry.

;)
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | November 15, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

This might have been a relevant post Wednesday... Last Wednesday, jesus let it go, i agree with the posters above, had we taken care of business on the field, the stilller fans would have been sitting on those towels instead of waving them. And if you really want to control things, how about not allowing the scalpers and vendors from selling other teams paraphenalia before the game. They were selling freakin terrible towels in the tailgate lot before the game!!! So however you look at it, players take care of things on the field other fans are going to be quiet and irrevelent. So lets go skins, make trips to the redzone count, and lets get a repeat of the skins cowboys game in 2005, where we hit in the mouth in the beginning and dont let off the throttle until wade phillips get the tap on his back from skeletor to let him know hes fired

Posted by: TDGibson | November 15, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Great blog and I totally agree. Redskins fans need to buck up. There were some very close shaves with those Steelers in your face. Next time there will be some punches thrown. Not just burnt trucks.

Posted by: etddds | November 15, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

I do not post very often, and seeing some of the babble on this site makes me wonder what people do with their lives.
Main Point. The Skins fans of today no way compare to the fan base at RFK. They were made up of a strong blue collar background. You did not come into our house. I saw more fights in stands when I was kid between Skin fans and visitors. I even saw this woman punching out another woman. Pretty eye opening for a 10 year old kid. Not condoning fighting, but football is a violent sport and you protect your territory. Unfortunately the fan base while it still has some tremendously loyal fans has just as many fickle, status (I have season tickets)fans that would just as well sell them for a profit then go. I have seen it around me. Before you had the same folks every week sitting around you and you made friends and bonds. Now there are weeks I see different people every Sunday or game. I bet a lot of old time season ticket owners have experienced the same thing. Think about it. Why would a true Skins fan spend a week continue discussing the Torrence issue for week instead of what is relavent to the team now.

Posted by: Seasontickets1966 | November 15, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

An RFK ticket was in demand always simply because the demand by the true fans of the team far exceeded the supply. If you could not go you knew ten fans that would relish going to the game in your place. RFK was more enveloping of the teams on the field and the sound and emotional intensity was magnified. The waiting list for tickets was decades long. The rocking of the stands in RFK was as if the whole stadium heaved along with you as the team made rallies or great defensive stops. FedEX by contrast has nothing in terms of an organic soul. The experience is blaring, loud, even braying, but not soulful. Fans of other East Coast teams would come down to RFK but they could never make the stands sway for them. Jack Kent Cooke built the new stadium more as a monument to himeself, kind of like a mausoleum of past Redskin spirit. The ticket to this experience won't have the same value as a ticket to a game in the old RFK. Thus the sad excuses of "it's a work night" or "the cost of everything is going up" are so easy to mumble now. The result is a stadium embarrasingly filled with Steeler fans. Maybe there are only 55,000 true Redskin fans in DC, enough to fill RFK but not enough to fill Fed EX.

Posted by: driley | November 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

sorry for playing on your lawn Seasontickets1966

Posted by: chrislarry | November 15, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

This is a superb piece of writing. Wordy? Not at all. Stop living your life in a text message fantasy and remember what the art of writing is all about.

Posted by: SknsFan | November 15, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Some great points Royce and well made in a very clever, entertaining piece. Oh that the team would remember to do the same: they are, after all, professional entertainers.

Today's Skins fans need an abundance of determination, courage, stamina, perseverance, emergency food rations and 20/20 eyesight - and that's just to find your car in the cash parking lot conveniently located in a neighboring state.

Oh, and by the way MonkMossMann @ 0926, if "there's no steel in Pittsburgh any more", what's holding up Heinz Field these days?

Posted by: Thinskinned | November 15, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

jesus christ! Now J Caca is getting "fans" to do his dirty work?

please die J Caca.

Posted by: IHateJLC | November 15, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

How pathetic! Yes, the Steelers did invade us on an unbelievable level but if the game had been played at 1:00 or 4:00 on Sunday afternoon would that have happened? I think not.

But my biggest complaint with this post is the statement the players come here...sign a big contract, play 2-3 years and leave (and that the coaches do the same thing). There is simply no truth to this statement - perhaps it used to be that way but no longer. Samuels, Jansen, Randy Thomas, Portis, Thrash, Rabach, Campbell (Jason and Khary), Cartwright, Betts, Sellers, Cooley, Springs, Rogers, Cornelius Griffin, Phil Daniels (need I go on?) have all been here for years. Buges, Danny Smith, Blache, have all been here for many years (as well as many of the other coaches).

Posted by: Lisa_R | November 15, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

My concern about the game this Sunday is not so much the Skins D v. Dallas' O. That seems well in hand. I see plenty of turnovers, maybe even the elusive pick six from someone.

I'm real worried about the Skins' O. Maybe Betts can credibly deter a Dallas focus exclusively on shutting down the passing game, but I'm mostly worried about Jason Campbell staying upright for the passing game. Old Man Time is knocking on the door and he's asking about Jansen.

Posted by: dcsween | November 15, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Calm down. Football is for fun you big stupid jerk.

Posted by: MonkMossMann | November 15, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

---

this isn't the FIRST source to point this out...interesting points to be sure but most of this has been rehashed ad nauseum

Posted by: hailbg | November 15, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

---

Did Leigh Torrence tell you to write this?
T

Posted by: MonkMossMann

---

To our guest blogger---

Not ALL of us here on RI are Shadenfreude-dripping jacka$$es.

Thanks for contributing.

Posted by: TheCork | November 15, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

+++Great blog and I totally agree. Redskins fans need to buck up. There were some very close shaves with those Steelers in your face. Next time there will be some punches thrown. Not just burnt trucks.

Posted by: etddds +++

I've been to a couple of Rutgers games in P-burgh and both times the fans there could not have been more civil.

Let's do some detective work. I'll save you the trouble. No alcohol was served during the college game.

Since so many fans come to pro games to get drunk before the game, naturally fights break out.

But the NFL is about making money, so tailgating is encouraged,
and fans can get hammered before the first kickoff--and just top off their high with the $12 beers.

Posted by: TheCork | November 15, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

i moved to this area from arlington, texas after the skins won their last super bowl...i remained a cowboys fan since that was my home town team...there are many people like me in this area...add that to those who are from here but chose to root for the cowboys (or another team) because their fathers did or because they simply didn't like the redskins...this isn't unique to DC..this happens all over the place...go to seattle next week and there will be plenty of skins fans...

i've been to cowboys games at rfk and at fedex...the fans generally treat me with respect..i get the typical trash talk but it rarely crosses the line...thats the way it should be...i don't see anything wrong with that...

i'll be at the game sunday and i'll be dressed in my cowboys colors...feel free to talk trash all you want...thats what makes these rivalry games fun, after all we have the best rivalry in all of sports (in my opinion)...good luck sunday night, but not too much!

Posted by: 22CowboysHOF | November 15, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

++++I'm real worried about the Skins' O. Maybe Betts can credibly deter a Dallas focus exclusively on shutting down the passing game++++SWEEN

Not likely. Betts isn't 100% and his 100% is nothing to put the fear in Dallas to start with. Plus, it's a big step down from Portis' blocking.

+++but I'm mostly worried about Jason Campbell staying upright for the passing game. Old Man Time is knocking on the door and he's asking about Jansen.+++

Jansen? How about the rest of he aging, undersized line? Love those guys, tough and ornery, but in the NFC East, they are getting worn down as the season goes along. And without Portis quickness to get thru the holes they'll be less effective run blocking.

And I agree about pass blocking, I hope Campbell doesn't get killed back there.

And I REALLY hope Zorn keeps Dallas off-guard with a variety of new plays. He's become predictable of late.

Oh, and with Kelly in Mufti on the sidelines studying his Pop up Playbook, is it too much to ask for Thomas to catch a few balls?

Yeah, I was afraid so. Defense? Ball's in your court. Shut 'em DOWN!!!!

Posted by: TheCork | November 15, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Cork, few backs in the league pass block as well as Portis (maybe McGahee or Jamaal Lewis), but healing Betts carrying the ball is a huge step up from Alexander or Rock.

Posted by: dcsween | November 15, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Excellent Excellent post 22cowboyhof. Now your tema sux, we want dallas...... you get the drift. Have fun at the game... but not too much...lol

Posted by: dbrine1261 | November 15, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm most concerned about this being a primetime game. Let's face it ..we have not won a primetime game this season....and we have looked bad in both primetime games.

I know I have mentioned the "primetime curse" before but it bears repeating.

Posted by: Lisa_R | November 15, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Good blog. I was at that game and was surrounded by a sea of yellow towels. The fans may have the right to sell their tix but it a shame Redskins fans do not buy them up. I felt like I was a visitor to the other team's stadium.

Posted by: etdjrdds | November 15, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Blah Blah blah....boring.

I'm a diehard Redskins fan and have multiple season tickets.....sure I'm disappointed that fans sell their tickets but its the same in any other market.

Best thing is.....my tickets improve every year because there are no PSLs and fairweather fans who sell their tickets don't renew their seats.

So deride as you must.....you can't compare 92000 seat stadium to the small stadium of RFK.......its not really fair...and you can't blame Snyder for this as he didn't build the stadium...JKC did.

I like FEDEX the way it is......it is ALL about the football....no bars nearby no distractions no NFL Experience Bouncy Zones...it is for the football purist.
TAILGATING + FOOTBALL...that's the way it should be.

Posted by: goosedude | November 15, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

no bars nearby no distractions no NFL Experience Bouncy Zones...it is for the football purist.
TAILGATING + FOOTBALL...that's the way it should be.

Posted by: goosedude | November 15, 2008 2:36 PM

This is partly a joke right? How bout the pre and post game bands that play? How bout the set-up where you can throw a football through the various holes acting like your a quaterback.

Ever seen a game from the suite-level? 1/2 the people in the games couldn't care less about the game.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | November 15, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

As for attendance-woes, how bout when the 'Skins play in say like Arizona or Tampa Bay?

I'm sure Cards and Bucs fans get just as unnecessarily upset about it too.

Get over it.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | November 15, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

I'll start being a real fan again when the Redskins start being the Redskins again.


1- Get a real GM

2- Bring in over achievers (see: Donnie Warren, Joe Jacoby, Brad Edwards, Charles Mann, Gary Clark, Monte Coleman, etc.)

3- Play Redskins football (run the ball, stop the run, and blow out weaker teams. 2 out of 3 ain't enough)

4- Players have to hate to lose just as much as fans hate to lose. If we go 3 and out, I don't want to see our star lineman making goofy faces on the sideline to his pals in the stands.


Every few years we get close to meeting these 4 prerequisites. Then Snyder blows up the team and f's everything up again.
Maybe us fans just need one thing to change in order for us to return to being true fans once more:
1- Get rid of Snyder!

Posted by: jgarrisn | November 15, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

This whole thread is lame.....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 15, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Anybody got seven tickets for sale for tomorrow's game? I got my old rodeo buddies coming up from Lubbock.

Posted by: SMACK1 | November 15, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

i'll be at the game sunday and i'll be dressed in my cowboys colors...feel free to talk trash all you want...thats what makes these rivalry games fun, after all we have the best rivalry in all of sports (in my opinion)...good luck sunday night, but not too much!

Posted by: 22CowboysHOF | November 15, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Buuuh, gaaag, ecch. I am agreeing with a Cowboys fan. I am not going into a diatribe about this blog entry. Its a waste, and for Cindy to post it on the eve of the Cowboy game is LOW RENT. You just lost a supporter. I have heard arguments supporting JLA and non biased coverage. But this is Skins Bashing by posting this crap. Go watch "You got mail" some more. REALLY?? F this site. F JLA F CINDY. I will be at the game. Using my season ticket.

Posted by: Club320 | November 15, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Poop has a point. In the club level, most are sitting inside drinking a latte with a good stogie.

Yes, there is craigslist and ebay, but again, if peeps are selling, are they really asking who you root for?

Anyway, all we can control is what we do when we are there. Scream for your team when they are on defense. We need that hiome field advantage!

Good post 22 HPF

Posted by: Zeebs | November 15, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

A guest blogger who can write!!!!!A guest blogger with a message!!! keep them coming. I'll keep reading

Posted by: downunder2 | November 15, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Anybody got seven tickets for sale for tomorrow's game? I got my old rodeo buddies coming up from Lubbock.

Posted by: SMACK1 | November 15, 2008 2:57 PM

Can you be more specific about your "rodeo buddies? Human? Bovine? Equidae?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 15, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

2- Bring in over achievers (see: Donnie Warren, Joe Jacoby, Brad Edwards, Charles Mann, Gary Clark, Monte Coleman, etc.)

3- Play Redskins football (run the ball, stop the run, and blow out weaker teams. 2 out of 3 ain't enough)
===============================================
I'd like to go back to the 1980s, meself.

Lighter, faster, less grey hair!

P.S. And put all my money in Microsoft.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | November 15, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

If Washington is a rum and Coke,

By Cindy Boren | November 15, 2008; 8:00 AM ET

...then Cork is a Corkscrew. Rum and Coke? Some nice stuff in the post, but this doesn't ring true. Washington is a glass of wine, a double martini, a cosmopolitan, a mojito, or any of two dozen others. Although, I could see Alex and his girlfriend ordering rum and coke.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 15, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Anybody got seven tickets for sale for tomorrow's game? I got my old rodeo buddies coming up from Lubbock.

Posted by: SMACK1 | November 15, 2008 2:57 PM

Can you be more specific about your "rodeo buddies? Human? Bovine? Equidae?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 15, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

We hate when we go up to the town rodeo and folks has all sold their tickets to doctors and lawyers. The aisles are all blocked by attache' cases and there's nothing to drink for sale but chardonnay.

Go NAVY! Amazing if they pull this out.

Posted by: SMACK1 | November 15, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Navy men do not pull out. It's why there are no girl's high schools in annapolis.

Posted by: daggar | November 15, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Go Terps!

Posted by: dealer1 | November 15, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Reaction to another thread Jason wrote....I have noticed that when talking about the success the Skins have had and where tey might be heading...Our own beat writer writes things like "competing for a wild card" or "ahead of Dalls for the wild card"

Hmmmm Sure these things are true....but I see it differently....I think we are only 2 games back from the DIVISION LEAD With a second half of a season to go!

JLC either start doing your job or please move on....Tired of your negativity and bad light of our team....

The Skiy is the limit and there is no clear cut Superbowl team at this time....We could do anything at this point....Go write for Hockey or something.

Posted by: leevi98 | November 15, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Something wrong with the blog (yet again)? Last post was more than an hour and a half ago and before that there was a reasonable amount of activity.

On football: with betts I think we have a good chance of winning, especially since the Cowgirls's secondary isn't that improved with their cornerback coming back from injury since Santana burns him consistently. In addition, I can imagine Romo wondering why the rest of his body isn't broke in addition to his ailing pinky with Taylor coming back. On offense, if we can keep them guessing we have the game in the bag. Let's just hope that our home field "advantage" turns into a true advantage; shame on fans if they sell their tickets to cowboy's fans this week. That's bad enough during the Pittsburgh game, but for the Cowgirls' game would be blasphemous to 'Skins fanhood.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | November 15, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

shame on fans if they sell their tickets to cowboy's fans this week.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | November 15, 2008 5:44 PM

I guess I wouldn't be so judgmental as this (and others who are more judgmental). These are tough times for a lot of people. If the have to sell football tickets to buy Christmas gifts for their kids, then they're doing the right thing in my opinion.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 15, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

No one will care that there are 20K cowboy fans at Fed-Ex if the 'skins put a proper beat down on Romo and company.

Posted by: bangkokben | November 15, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

True TE, but I could only hope they'd sell them to 'Skins fans, instead of Dallas Fans.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | November 15, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

No one will care that there are 20K cowboy fans at Fed-Ex if the 'skins put a proper beat down on Romo and company.

Posted by: bangkokben | November 15, 2008 8:23 PM

Won't care? I'll be ecstatic that all 20,000 tools shelled out big money to drink Danny's beer and see their Boys get a good butt-kicking.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 15, 2008 8:31 PM | Report abuse

That's the bottom line, Ben

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 15, 2008 8:39 PM | Report abuse

JFK--For obvious reasons, most people trying to raise money sell to the high bidder. Lets hope that Redskins fans step up and outbid the Cowboys contingent.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 15, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Very true TE, lets hope. One would figure any non-native Dallas fans would've already had their tickets, and to me those would be the most desperate.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | November 15, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

I guess I wouldn't be so judgmental as this (and others who are more judgmental). These are tough times for a lot of people. If the have to sell football tickets to buy Christmas gifts for their kids, then they're doing the right thing in my opinion.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 15, 2008 8:04 PM |


Wonder how the Grinch (cork) will spin this one?

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 15, 2008 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Wonder how the Grinch (cork) will spin this one?

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 15, 2008 9:10 PM

Good, Curzon. You know, it's gotten so that everytime I post something I think that same question. And I've decided that he's so unpredictable, that it's not worth worrying about it. Whatever, it's usually clever enough to be worth the beating I get.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 15, 2008 9:15 PM | Report abuse

No doubt T-E, though if he can spin that in a bad/negative way I would have to label him as not a curmudgeon, but just bitter or JLC.

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 15, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Curzon,

He's got his own style, persona, wit, and flair. In fact, multiple personas. Most of what he writes is for effect and you can't take it seriously.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 15, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

T_E,

Yes, I have been to his Skippy web site (http://askskippy.blogspot.com/2008/11/redskim-mid-sesion-reprot-pt-1-defense.html) and http://www.nfldraftdog.com/NFL%20Team%20Columns/washington_redskins_nfl_team_col.htm . I agree he has some wit, but sometimes it just gets dull.

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 15, 2008 10:10 PM | Report abuse

On monday night....... If we see ANY Cowboy blue... we need to bludgeon them!!! How DARE they enter our sacred stadium!! Time to put the fear of God into the opposition.

Posted by: egrib | November 16, 2008 5:09 AM | Report abuse

Rude fans?? I don't know if you're familiar with the antics of the world's "Futbol" fans (the other white meat) elsewhere, but if you take your kids to those mad medieval spastic events, they'll be well conditioned for the smoke filled food riots coming in the not-too-distant future. FedEx is a blatant attempt by corporate execs to milk Redskin fanaticism in a sterile muzak shopping mall Disneyland/ Six Flags environment: no wonder Big Jim sells his tickets and just watch it on tv, and besides, the only pro team that should be able to command the prices like FedEx should be perennially one of the top teams like the Yankees or the Lakers- the Skins range from not bad to awful under Danny. But, you gotta love Zorn and the promise of this new Redskin team, touchdowns and victories will refill the seats , guerre-on-tee..

Posted by: frak | November 16, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

This article hits home w/ me b/c it's not just about Redskins' fans or the Redskins' owner; it's a metaphor for this country. We're a nation of greed these days, not one w/ much loyalty.

Posted by: MrMerkin | November 16, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

i purchased my season tickets in 1997 when the skins moved to FEDEX, i was sooooo happy to get them as it was impossible in RFK, but after 10 years and a gizzzilion different people in my lodge I have gotten tired of fighting. I was the guy that would stand up in my seat and tell an over the top fan of the oppisit team to sit the f down and shut the f up. I was the guy when that would fly back from LA to see my skins at FEDEX every game. Now i sit in my lodge listen the fans from the other team hoop and hollar game in game out. It fin sux..... i fin hate it. but i take my medicine now , i am older and married and fist fights will not get me anywhere but in jail. i just hope that we can put a beat down on the cowgirls that will shut everyone up... it always does

Posted by: cosmiccatnip1 | November 16, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

what a crappy blog --- true to be sure, but still crappy --- all been said before, doesn't need to be said again, go away --- just go away

Posted by: bestmick1 | November 16, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

This is a stupid post. It's a stupid subject and I'm sick of hearing about it.

BTW, I am a season ticket holder - took 30 years to become one. I also sold my tickets, but the whole season. Why? Who can afford the $3000 each year to go to 8 (um, yeah, 10 games if you count the 2 full-priced preseason tickets) and another $25 a game just to stop driving. It's stupid and it's the only way to keep the tickets until I can afford them some year down the road.

Posted by: bentoenail | November 16, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

I couldn't agree more - very well-said. My family had season tickets from Griffith Stadium, through the RFK years, and well into the Jack Kent Cooke Stadium years. A couple years after it became FedExField, I gave up the tickets that had been passed down to me, after offering them to others in the family who grew up as die-hard as I am. Nobody wanted them. Why?

1. WAY too expensive tickets. Can't even give away pre-season tickets, so they become a sort of "tax" season ticket holders have to pay.

2. WAY too expensive to get to the game and eat or drink anything at the game. $6 for a hot dog is criminal.

3. The gameday experience has gone to hell. The stadium is poorly designed for fan interaction - and nothing is more unsettling than seeing half (or more) of the yellow club seats vacant at any given time (notice how they're replacing them with red seats?). The ambiance of RFK - that home field advantage - is gone forever. Don't get me wrong - I've heard the place get extremely loud, but only in short bursts. Without the roof overhang the sound just dissipates.

But what really caused me to give up my tickets is this: We had been on the upgrade list to get to the lower deck since 1988. Our seats at the Big Jack were much worse than at RFK - still in the 3rd row of the upper deck, but went from the sideline to behind the end line, and I checked to make sure we were still on the upgrade list. We were.

When The Danny took over, all of those upgrade lists were thrown out, and whenever lower deck seats opened up he declared them "premium" seats and you could only purchase them as part of a package that included membership in something called the Tailgate Club - which made the cost extremely high.

And let's see if the Post is willing to do a little investigative journalism and expose one of the biggest myths in the NFL: that the Redskins have 70,000 people on the season ticket waiting list. When I gave up our tickets, I immediately put my name on the list - I figured by the time I got to the top Snyder would have cashed out and sold the team to somebody with a clue. Imagine my surprise when 4 years later I received a letter congratulating me for reaching the top of the list and offering me season tickets.

It really doesn't surprise me that season ticket holders make their seats available to Stub Hub and scalpers. Paying for 10 games is tough.

I do take issue with one statement, however. Joe Jacoby was not drafted by the Redskins. He wasn't drafted by anybody. He was signed as an undrafted free agent.

Posted by: kemp13 | November 16, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

ugh.. this blog is useless. Full of old news`and the same stories over and over and over.

Posted by: unkonchus | November 16, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Well said guest blogger!!!

Posted by: StarSkater | November 17, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

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