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Experiment Over?

Okay, like most of you the fact that a left side of the line consisting of Heyer and Wade got overwhelmed came as no surprise. In fact, I think most people in that building not named Gibbs or Bugel probably saw it coming. It could have been even worse than it was, and thankfully no one got hurt.

Was in contact with several football people in the organization Sunday, all of whom are banking on the fact that there will be a new starting LT in there for this afternoon's practice, because the Steelers, in their first preseason under a new staff, aren't going to take it easy this weekend, and they can get pretty tricky wih the blitz packages over there.

Actually, more to the point, there are a lot of people at The Park who are privately praying that the Heyer/Wade experiement is over. In the end, though, that's up to Gibbs. Heyer could still be a heck of a prospect over time, but there it too much at stake to keep this up, not with Pittsburgh and Baltimore coming up the next two weeks. Will be very interesting to see if theydo work Wade at tackle, too, because the other options at left tackle have not looked good so far, and Jason Fabini, the most experienced of those options, is having a poor camp.

Maybe Chris Samuels could be back for the final preseason game - they will have to weigh if that makes sense - but he has been coming along well. It should all make for an interesting practice today.

Other than that, I'll be watching Brunell closely - not good the other night from him, althogh that second string O Line was a wreck, too - and our guy Suishy as well.

As for positives - Fletcher looked like the real deal and Landry clearly has a handle on the starting job. That was a heck of a debut. Mrcus Washington had that spring back in his step and was moving well. Frosty was very sharp.

By Jason La Canfora  |  August 13, 2007; 9:28 AM ET
 
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Next: Gerard Warren (Updated)

Comments

Paging Pete Kendell...Pete Kendell.....

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Good stuff Jasno.

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Did I miss when Heyer gave up a sack? The only sack from the left side came on a blitz from an uncovered defender and Sonny and JC both said it was a result of JC failing to check his blindside for the hot read. Heyer blocked who he was supposed to block. His run blocking needs to improve, but I think he turned out to be a solid backup to Samuels. Fabini looked awful - don't put him in versus the Steelers. Jansen is off to another slow start.

Posted by: Mike H. | August 13, 2007 9:49 AM | Report abuse

We definitely need to do something about that O-Line. That killed the entire offense the other night. But I have confidence that with Chris Samuels back everything will be better. Chris Cooley couldn't be a factor because he had to help Heyer and the O-Line the whole time he was in. So with Samuels healthy, we get to use Cooley more and these factors make the Skins O WAY better.

Posted by: SkinsFanSC | August 13, 2007 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Unlike last year's TJ Duckett overeaction, this time we do need to trade for Kendall. If Trent Green and Moss can be had for 2nd day picks, no reason we can't get him for a 5th rounder. At least day one of the 2008 draft is still intact. As of August, that is...

Posted by: The 804 | August 13, 2007 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Sam & Sonny sounded good (that's all I get down here in tha 305). Most aspects of the D were solid, which is more reassuring to me than any successes of the offense.

Did Carter play? I didn't hear his name once...

Posted by: The AMAZING Dik Shuttle | August 13, 2007 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Say what you want about the left side of the line, but Jansen had a terrible game. For some reason this seems to be ignored in the media. I love Jansen, he's a lifelong Redskin, and has put in year after year of strong performances. That said, last year was not his best work, and he, along with the rest of the starting offensive line save Rabach is on the other side of 30.


Gibbs/Buges have been here since 2004, and in all that time we haven't drafted/acquired a single decent young o-line prospect. In other words, we have zero depth and an aging line. I would love to see you write an article about the entire o-line situation Jason.

Posted by: Todd | August 13, 2007 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Janso,

Thanks for the updates.

Collins needs to be bumped up to the #2 guy immediately. Despite the fact that Boonell has 33 years left on his contract (Vinny's "plan"), we need to cut him OR just make him the highest paid 3rd string QB in NFL history, beating the old record by 3 ga-gillion dollars.

The line is absolutely scary. Now do you guys understand why I cry about the salary cap? Would you rather have a 3rd/4th string WR in Lloyd or 2-3 decent back-up lineman for the same amount of money? I won't even get started on Gaither.

The problem now is that Gibbs is getting scared, which means we'll be seeing tons of 1 WR sets like we did in '04... this means Cooley stays into block, our offense becomes predictable, we lose lots of ball games.

On a positive, the defense played well. I hope to see more out of that.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | August 13, 2007 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Our punter is a rookie, so who knows how he's going to go this year. He's got a strong leg though.

Something tells me that it won;t be 3-0. If you can bear it, wtch this link until about 1:38' and look for Jesse Chatman breaking out a run.

http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/nflfilms/demand/s2007/nflcom/p02/jaguars_dolphins_short_300k.rm

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Was that Todd Wade?

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Sorry guys for being out of context, that last post from me was a response to Nate from the previous thread.

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 10:06 AM | Report abuse

I think Heyer looked like exactly what he is -- a rookie -- but not necessarily an endrafted one. Let's see if he learns from those mistakes in practice.

JLC, what about Pucillo at LG? I haven't really heard much about him this offseason.

I have been screaming this at my buddies all offseason, but LFB is the truth. I think he will help this D to no end, and I hope every day that he stays healthy.

Redcoat, are you talking about Frost? He's not a rookie.

Posted by: Bucktown Skins Fan | August 13, 2007 10:13 AM | Report abuse

as far as us thinking that we saw heyer playing okay in his first pre-game. well we have to concede to the experts that jasno is talking to. howeva! if buges thinks he played okay and deserves another shot then i can say for sure that buges knows O line more than anyone on that staff combined.

BUT when i read "experiment is over!" i thought or may be wished that the experiment=weird al's "great" "offense".

Posted by: lg | August 13, 2007 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Todd,

I hear ya. Andy Reid makes it a priority to draft offensive and defensive lineman, yet we would rather stockpile punt returners and 2nd/3rd/4th WR's on a run-oriented team. It makes no sense whatsover.

Meanwhile, the Eagles go to 4 straight NFC Championship games, and return to the playoffs last year, while we flounder year after year.

You are also spot on when you say that the age of our line, and not just the offensive but the defensive line too, is disturbing. I guess we'll remain hopeful on Montgomery and Golston, but other than that we have very few young and upcoming guys.

With the little cap room we have (and we will continue to have in upcoming years) to pick up a decent player (not the Fabini's of the world) in free agency, this team is going to be screwed if we don't start using our picks on young, talented offensive and defensive lineman, like NOW. Gaither would have been a great start, but oh well. They need to use most, if not all, of their picks next year on these glaring needs.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | August 13, 2007 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I agree with RickyBobby.....Collins came in and immediately started lighting it up. The guys he was going against were no worse than Brunell's opposition....and Brunell stunk it up;same as last year. Did he throw it further than 8 yards at any point? Also, shouldn't our "next Lohmiller/Mosely" be able to hit a 47 yarder? Aren't John Carney and Morten Anderson available? I can't beleive this guy Suisham isn't getting ANY competition in camp...
O-line looked a little scary, but it should get btter when Samuels comes back. Randy Thomas didn't play too much either, I think......Hail!

Posted by: DanO | August 13, 2007 10:17 AM | Report abuse

screw harping on the rookie... f-ing jon jansen isnt fit to block for sh**!!! When are people going to realize that as parcells said, he's lost a step. the man simply doesnt have it... esp in pass blocking. We need a new LG immediately and put todd wade back in Jansens spot. Freakin jansen was getting beat by 2nd stringers and owned by 1st stringers. This TN defense has sucked for three years in almost every category and we cant block 'em????

Posted by: Inigo Montoya | August 13, 2007 10:17 AM | Report abuse

At least it didn't mean that WashPo's Redskins Insider blog experiment is over.

That sure would have been hard to deal with.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Collins should definately have the 2nd string spot and I will be pissed if he didnt earn playing second this weekend.

Suisham missed his first FG of the year and kicked one out of bounds, I'm not gonna get on him right away, as the game went on he was nailing kicks.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya | August 13, 2007 10:21 AM | Report abuse

To me, Wade looked worse than Heyer.

But what are the alternatives? Fabini looked even worse. Lefotu is too slow. Pucillo? He's MIA. Unless one of those guys dramatically step up this week in practice, I think you have to go back to Heyer/Wade and try to make it work.

It's only preseason game 1. Patience is the prescription this week. Give the line the opportunity to learn from its mistakes.

If they can't make progress vs the Steelers, then it's time to look for a fix.

Posted by: CMoney | August 13, 2007 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Bucktown, I was talking about Miami's punter, as we were discussing whether the season opener would be 3-0 at half-time as both teams look to have good D's but so-so O's at the moment.

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 10:21 AM | Report abuse

jon jansen=another Gibbs player but not suited for weird al's game. and yes, jansen's a bit (a lot) over rated. and i had the same thought exactly about todd wade moving to RT. but jansen is gibbs guy and like boonell he's gonna stick with him until...

Posted by: lg | August 13, 2007 10:23 AM | Report abuse

F the Dolphins!

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 10:23 AM | Report abuse

yes, nate i would've gone very deep into dark space in that case.

Posted by: lg | August 13, 2007 10:25 AM | Report abuse

There's always "the jerk kicker" DanO. Although his website is looking a little out of date...

http://www.mikevanderjagt.net/

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 10:26 AM | Report abuse

By the way, great post Janso! This is the kind of insider dirt we love and actually gives the base some red meat to rip apart...

Dealer/LG: Sorry if I hurt your feelings......its just that your wackiness drives me nutz sometimes......my bad I should no better than to get nasty with a regular...

F Me

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 10:27 AM | Report abuse

F cHriS laRRy!

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 10:28 AM | Report abuse

So who the heck could this putative new LT be at this afternoon's practice? Joe Jacoby ain't walkin' through that door. Jim Lachey ain't walkin' through that door.

We need a functioning O line during the preseason:
* to keep Soup from getting clobbered
* to get some practice executing this offense
* so the line itself develops cohesion

What configuration of the dudes we have helps us best achieve those goals?

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 10:29 AM | Report abuse

CMoney,

I couldn't agree more about the "alternatives". We very few anywhere on the field and everyone knows it. In a salary capped league, you cannot dump 90% of your cap into your first 22 guys (sorry, 24 including our 3rd/4th WR's).

Depth is so important in the NFL, yet I just don't see it being a priority. It's like they're too stubbon to realize this fact OR they've just built themselves too deep of a hole with some of these contracts and can't find a way out.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | August 13, 2007 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Gotcha Redcoat. I'm excited for that game because I have a buddie up here who is a diehard Fins fan. The trash talking is pretty good now, but the level is going to start increasing rapidly.

Good sentiment cL. I feel the same way...

Posted by: Bucktown Skins Fan | August 13, 2007 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Ricky Bobby, others... would you have Vinny on the phone this morning trying to make a panic move to acquire Pete Kendall or someone else? What would you be doing right now if you were in charge?

Just curious... I have to think we're going to war with the army we have, not the army we wish we had.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 10:33 AM | Report abuse

The kicking game is killing me. Killing me. This has been going on for years now, and for the life of me, I can't understand it. I really can't. Did anyone, and I mean anyone on this great blog, believe he was actually going to hit that 47 yarder? Seriously? I go to my Dad, "No chance in this entire world he hits this." It's comical. Really comical. When Bobby Bowden began losing championships and big games, he started recruiting kickers as his top priority. Why are we not doing this? We went after John Hall a while back, and that was a disaster, but why not do it again? How does your kicker get nervous for a pre-season game? The dude was straight nervous. You could see it in his face. Nervous as hell.

Also, Landry was na-na-na-nasty. He looked like a veteran from the start out there. Great draft pick.

Posted by: The Governor | August 13, 2007 10:33 AM | Report abuse

it's all good cl.

Posted by: lg | August 13, 2007 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Stop the false info! Todd and Ricky Bobby, the 'skins under this coach has drafted at least three O-linemen by my recollection. They just turned out to be a pile of dung.

As for Gaither, keep jumping on his bandwagon. He hasn't done SJK in the NFL as of yet. I suspect if Gaither was here and Heyer was in Bmore you'd be biatching that we let Heyer get picked up by the crows and he'd be getting all the pub for being the next Jonathan Ogden.

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Skins say this year is the franchise's 75th anniversary. They say "1932 - 2007."

Ummm...isn't that 76 years? You count 1932 as the 1st year. Am I missing something?

The Steelers are also celebrating their 75th anniversary this year: 1933 - 2007.

Posted by: CMoney | August 13, 2007 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps the skins should think about moving Wade out to left tackle and give Heyre a shot at left guard. It couldn't turn out any worse and at least one of them would be in his natural postion.

I'm thinking it may be easier to train a rookie tackle to play guard than a vet who is more used to playing tackle.

not a sermon, just a thought.

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Is it just me or was the secondary getting picked apart just like last year? I've heard no mention of this but it seemed like whenever the Titans wanted to throw deep they could, it was as if nothing changed since the debacle a year ago. The run D was outstanding so maybe that changed, but as for the secondary, what the f?

Posted by: Juice Box | August 13, 2007 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"Stop the false info! Todd and Ricky Bobby, the 'skins under this coach has drafted at least three O-linemen by my recollection. They just turned out to be a pile of dung."

It's not false info. My post said:

"Gibbs/Buges have been here since 2004, and in all that time we haven't drafted/acquired a single decent young o-line prospect"

We drafted Molinaro and Wilson in 2004 in the late rounds, and we drafted Lefotu last year. None of them can be said to be remotely decent.

My post was quite accurate. The only useful thing we've done since 2004 on the o-line is bring Rabach in as a starter in free agency. Our line is aging, and we have NO ONE in the pipeline.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2007 10:42 AM | Report abuse

'roid em up! There's no test for the clear or HGH... wait a minute.. that's bak 2 baseball! Oh well, if the hypodermic fits...

Posted by: Dik Shuttle | August 13, 2007 10:43 AM | Report abuse

They might think about trading Brunell for a Falcons OT. Any thoughts?

I guess I see things differently than Jason. Bugel might have been a big Heyer supporter (as was Randy Johnson) BUT, at least in the videos, GIbbs NEVER seemed all that confident. IN POINT OF FACT JUST the opposite. The only time I have seen him rave this preseason has been over the young guys and their impact on the depth of "teams" (special teams). AND over James Thrash.

I guess I am seeing something different. I see Gibbs wondering if he is even going to have an offense or defense ... (after this game of course the defense looks a great deal more promising ...)

Reflecting on past Gibbs interviews and George Michael's Redskins Report when it was the Joe Gibbs Show ... I would say that he does not have a lot of confidence in many aspects of the offense including his QB. My impression is that Gibbs still feels that Jason needs more seasoning. But he has potential. My impression is that Gibbs never likes putting all his eggs in one basket and would like more alternatives for quarterback.

Finally everyone seems to preclude the FO in all of this. I think if it were up to Gibbs they would cut Brandon Lloyd now and start James Thrash. The FO and Snyder must have input.

YET Jason seems to put it all on Gibbs? I just don't see it. But then Jason is from "Ballmore" and a Raven's fan ... LOL Gibbs
can't be a hero there.

Posted by: periculum | August 13, 2007 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Nate,

If I was put in charge of this team RIGHT NOW, and couldn't go back and change some of their moves/non-moves, I would compete this year as hard as I could with the guys I have, then start positioning myself for years to come... but hopefully that's what they're doing now (fingers crossed but still realizing that Snyder/Gibbs run this show).

In my opinion, re-building was never an option when JG came back, and it should have been. After this season, I would go ahead and blow the thing up Tennessee style a few years back. Get rid of these vets with huge contracts, deal with the dead cap money, play a bunch of hungry rookies who may or may not get you 5-6 wins, focus on the draft (particularily on the lines to protect JC), and think 2 years down the road.

bang,

Who have the Skins drafted on the online within the first 3-4 rounds? you cannot seriously expect to draft someone in the 6th/7th round and have them make an impact. That's where scouting and luck come into play, not being realistic about finding serious depth.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | August 13, 2007 10:48 AM | Report abuse

etrod;

Flag on the play, game misconduct for bringing Lon Solomon (sp) to the Blog... That dude is this close to starting the 4th Reich

There are excerpts from one of his ministries that says if they cannot affect the change to society that they see as right, then it is time to stand up and take arms "if you know what i mean" (sic)

Will find a link to it soon

Posted by: Zebra | August 13, 2007 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I will agree w/ most of the posts above. I did not notice Heyer or Wade giving up a sack or allowing pressure from the left side. I was more dissapointed about the consistent drubbing Jansen took on his side do of the ball. It's only one preseason game but I was truly suprised at Jansen's lack of 'getting of the ball'and run blocking when asked to do so. Very dissapointed!

I'll predict that the left side will stay in tact, of course w/o the help of any "People at the Park."

Posted by: NEskinsfan | August 13, 2007 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Ricky Bobby you said,

Who have the Skins drafted on the online within the first 3-4 rounds? you cannot seriously expect to draft someone in the 6th/7th round and have them make an impact. That's where scouting and luck come into play, not being realistic about finding serious depth.

Dude, you know with how many picks we had available in those rounds and knowing you have all starters set with the exception of this year you can't waste a pick there - now if we hadn't made those trades finding a decent guy there would have been sweet. However, the later round picks have been horrible - forever not just recently. But, this FO has targeted depth on the O-line in the draft and this year's free agency, they also targeted depth at LB. So far no luck.

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Z-

I don't want to start a blog holy war. I dispise pastor Lon as much (if not more) than anyone here. I do, however, find the irony of his radio ads quite hilarious.

I move to have the last line of my previous post stricken from the record.

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Many people feel that Wade is a better tackle than Jansen. Many feel that he may be better than Samuels. Pucillo and Tucker are decent and have been starters. Both in Buffalo. Tucker was a Skins draft pick to add the bundle.

Give Heyer a chance he is still learning. Before the end of the season he may end up starting. The learning curve is steep. LeFotu had that weird medical problem when he was drafted. He needs to work through this camp before anyone should make a judgement.

Finally if anyone was listening ... GIBBS HIMSELF admitted that the coaching staff had schemed badly against the blitz. They weren't expecting the safety to blitz that often and especially against the run.

NOW WHAT WERW WE DISCUSSING EARLIER THIS OFF-SEASON? Oh that's right ... how you needed DL not safeties? AND don't the Titans have some all-pro DL? And so why use the safety?
NOW why won't Jason ask his "sources" about that? They too were worried about the dearth of DL. Wow look what safeties can do? DOH!

I think Jason must be listening to FO people not coaches. I guess I would ignore those folks. The Cerrato track record is not a good one.

Posted by: periculum | August 13, 2007 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Chris Larry, you have no reason to apologize to the person who calls himself "genius" - he was off the charts crazy - as he is most of the time. His rants are becoming unbearable.

And Jansen is not "Gibbs guy" - Jansen was here long before Gibbs.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2007 11:00 AM | Report abuse

CMoney,

You count an anniversary when it comes up a year from the initial date of whatever your celebrating, so their first anniversary would have been in "33" and so on.

Posted by: Jeff | August 13, 2007 11:00 AM | Report abuse

I don't agree with blaming one side of the O line or the other... I thought BOTH sides of the line looked bad and, as someone noted, we got NO PUSH. It was bad. It was worse than not impressive. It wasn't only Heyer or only Jansen, that line was caving in on almost every play.

I'm glad Portis was held out and Betts only played a little, given the lack of support from the line, and that Soup wasn't KO'd by those hard shots he took. That was lucky.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 11:01 AM | Report abuse

I hear ya etrod

couldnt really find a link to the audio... was a 25 minute clip but did not know how far along his tirade was... he essentially calls for the killing of homosexuals... anyway, soapbox off.

Posted by: Zebra | August 13, 2007 11:03 AM | Report abuse

bang,

While I still think their scouting dept is absolute crap, I'll go ahead and agree that they haven't had much luck finding a diamond in the rough on the online in the later rounds and/or UDFA pick-ups; however, we will have to agree to disagree that OVERALL, it is 100% NOT bad luck that we don't have any up and coming guys and/or solid veteran back-ups.

In my opinion, you get what you pay for. If you draft a guy in the 6th round and expect him to be the back-up, you better also expect your QB to be taken off the field on a stretcher. If you don't save any money to sign 'decent' depth on the line, and instead offer older, decrepit guys like Fabini the vet minimum to be your back-up, then you better expect your back-up QB to also be carted off.

What is boils down to is that the Skins need a personnel man, someone who will fire THE IDIOT, someone Synder will stay away from, and someone JG (or whoever his successor) won't be allowed to override. Until then, we will continue to finish 5-11 under the "master plan".

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | August 13, 2007 11:05 AM | Report abuse

The 1st sack was on Cambell. He only had 5 guys blocking for him and didn't recognize that the blitz was on. I did notice that Heyer continued to stay on his man even as he dropped back in to coverage and did not pick up the blitzing safety. I'm not sure how he's supposed to handle that, i just noticed it after watching the play for the 4th time.

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 11:06 AM | Report abuse

The line was rubbish, but that is not bad for Soup to get the Patrick Ramsey treatment in the pre-season. Better now than later. Get the fumblitis fixed. Get that mental clock down. The man has not had live contact in eight months and started only seven games. Did great considering his experience.

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I agree with those of you who are concerned about the kicking game. It is a real achilles of this team and has been for as long as I can remember. It is particularly troubling considering that this team is likely going to be in close games in which a field goal or two will be decisive.

In that vein, it is perplexing why the skins did not use their 5th or sixth rounder on a kicker instead of on those 2 linebackers that are going to have no impact. There were 3 really good kickers drafted in the 5th and 6th rounds. The skins should have taken one of these difference makers.

Posted by: M.E.G. | August 13, 2007 11:08 AM | Report abuse

My thinking is the o-line is horrible, but the coaches do not realize this because the o-line goes against a horrible front four on defense day in and day out in practice. Our o-line may look good in practice against our piss-poor d-line, but when we go against a true pass rush end and d-tackle we crumble and will get our QB killed.

Posted by: Tony | August 13, 2007 11:08 AM | Report abuse

CMoney, the Steelers and Iggles are both celebrating their "75th" anniversaries during their 75th seasons, while we're celebrating our 75th during our 76th. I think. It is weird because it might makes a casual observer think the Skins are the same age as those two new teams.

The Steelers and Iggles are playing head-to-head next week... it would be perfect for them to wear throwback home and aways from the same team since they were combined in 1943 as the "Steagles." Not likely, I know, but it would be really cool.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 11:10 AM | Report abuse

RB,

I'm not saying it's all luck. I hear you. Truthfully, I heard you 8 months ago and don't think I need to hear it again. I even agree. But now, that master plan did get 11-7 one year, so far the starting line up is intact for the opener, the defense looks to in the right direction, we have a QB who can improvise if the line dosen't get form and we have a schedule that only has two 'scary' teams outside the division. [New England and Chicago]

It's not that bad...yet.

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 11:12 AM | Report abuse

This is great. A guy breaks down every play and how the line did.

http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=90

Posted by: Andrew | August 13, 2007 11:12 AM | Report abuse

I guess I could google it, but I think you a wrong on that Steagles thing. I know there was the merger, but I think the Steagles became the Steelers and the modern Eagles (zero superbowls) are an entirely new franchise. Did the Steagles actually split back up? Also, who cares?

Posted by: Mike H. | August 13, 2007 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Is this the same postgameheros.com that reported that The Reaper tore up his knee?

F postgameheroes

Posted by: CHRis larry | August 13, 2007 11:14 AM | Report abuse

M.E.G,

The kicking game is a concern of mine too, but not as much as it has in other years. Now, that doesn't mean we have two of the top 5 kickers/punters in the league, but it should, like you mentioned, reinforce just how bad our special teams have been.

Frost shocked me last year and hope his play doesn't do another 180. I was also impressed with Suisham, although I still wish we had a big banger (55+ potential on FG and touchback potential on KO's), but it's been years since we've been able to find someone like that.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | August 13, 2007 11:17 AM | Report abuse

bangkokben, agreed that it's good to go against good defenses now in the preseason so we can learn and adjust and hopefully stiffen up a bit.

2006 stats

total defense: Baltimore #1, Jax #2, Pittsburgh #9
rushing defense: Baltimore #2, Pittsburgh #3, Jax #4
scoring defense: Baltimore #1, Jax #4, Pittsburgh #11

And Baltimore was #2 overall with SIXTY sacks. (We had, ah, nineteen.)

Good thing these exhibition games don't count.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 11:20 AM | Report abuse

I think I've found out what Gibbs was doing on Saturday. He's been listening to Cam Cameron (and Tom Peters).

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-flspskolnick13nbaug13,0,1452512.column

BangkokBen, Miami's defense destroyed Jacksonville's first team o-line on Saturday WITHOUT either of Jason Taylor or Zach Thomas suited (we don't start key guys in pre-season unless we really have to). You might have a third scary game outside of the division and a real bad way to start the season.

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Mike, I care. I don't know why.

But yes, the Iggles and Steelers are both celebrating their 75th anniversaries this season, they were both started in 1933, and they were combined as the Steagles in 1943.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 11:25 AM | Report abuse

F Cam Cameron

Posted by: chRis larry | August 13, 2007 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Just curious... I have to think we're going to war with the army we have, not the army we wish we had.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 10:33 AM

Noooo Nate not that analogy.

I was not able to see the game but it sounds like the running game was not there. Being forced to pass with a shaky O-line not a recipe for success. So sayeth Captain of Obviousness. It's only the first preseason game, no one got hurt, so it's a partial success at least. They know what they have to work on. Still don't understand why they wouldn't put Wade, a seasoned vet, at LT if he's all that.

Posted by: skinswest | August 13, 2007 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Redcoat,

It's good to see the team spirit, but only if Dan Marino and Larry Czonka were playing would I call the Dolphins a scary opponent.

Last year the 'skins O-line gave up only 19 sacks, actually only 12 were their fault. This year maybe not so good, but I don't mind seeing max protect and Santana running 60 yards downfield.

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Jason or anybody who knows...

An injury update on Lorenzo Alexander (79) who bounced his face off Doughty's helmet?

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | August 13, 2007 11:31 AM | Report abuse

F Cam Cameron

Posted by: chRis larry | August 13, 2007 11:26 AM

I was actually semi-serious with that post CL. Cameron's intention was to put his guys in places where things break down to see how they react, for example he had the receivers run pointless routes on some plays to see what Green would do when he got stuck with the ball (answer, not much).

Maybe JGG has decided he needs to stretch his guys a bit so he asked the o-line to be pitiful deliberately?

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 11:31 AM | Report abuse

I LOVE that Frost was one of the first dudes on the punt returns, and he really laid the wood on that one guy - caused a fumble that just went out of bounds. If he keeps it up, he'll be in the blog hall of fame by game 4.

- Suishy Sucks

- Brunell looked bad, yet very comfortable in his ineptitude - keep him away from Palmer.

- J Camp, good but inconsistent due to many variables (a few close drops, those blind sided hits). I think he'll be sharp this year.

- D Line had its moments, but nothing great. Fletcher and Fletcher Duex (HB Blades) def. look legit.

- Big Props to that guy (Jamaal Green) who lost his helmet, made the tackle, and probably lost some chompers.

Skins win - good, Skins performance - uninspiring.

Posted by: WaPoLiveFAn16 | August 13, 2007 11:31 AM | Report abuse

How about Frost making that tackle and knocking the ball out! I'm sure he didn't expect a hit like that from a punter. And Landry did his thing - gave me a happy fuzzy feeling in my belly :-)

Posted by: skinzgirl53 | August 13, 2007 11:32 AM | Report abuse

- Brunell looked bad, yet very comfortable in his ineptitude - keep him away from Palmer.

LMGO

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 11:33 AM | Report abuse

WaPoLive, thanks, thanks a lot, I had almost erased the memory of Brunell calmly walking to the line for a routine play in the second half of an exhibition game, taking a slow look around the D, and calling timeout... TWICE. Ugh.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 11:35 AM | Report abuse

I feel good about the fact that I stopped watching the game at halftime.

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Redcoat,

It's good to see the team spirit, but only if Dan Marino and Larry Czonka were playing would I call the Dolphins a scary opponent.

Last year the 'skins O-line gave up only 19 sacks, actually only 12 were their fault. This year maybe not so good, but I don't mind seeing max protect and Santana running 60 yards downfield.

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 11:29 AM

Let the trash commence!!

I think if you run max protect with Santana 60 yards downfield you might see a LOT of INTs returned for TDs, as everyone knows that's the only other plan if plan A (run the ball) fails. With Cooley trying to keepo JC's head on his shoulders you don't have much of an offense. Although of course there is always Pretty-Boy Lloyd, THE receiver....

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 11:40 AM | Report abuse

I am just trying to get my opponent F bombs up to midseason form....its pre-season for me too....

F Trent Green

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 11:40 AM | Report abuse

More Kudos to Frosty for the special teams tackle and forced fumble. He hit like a linebacker (which I think he was at some point in HS or college). He had some good punts too...

Wish Suishy had greater distance and better accuracy. Can't be starting at the 40 due to muffed kicks. And expect close games this season when we need a solid leg for the WIN.

Jasno - can we expect the FO to bring in some kicking competition. Suishy did better last year when someone was breathing down his neck.

Posted by: Pasifikawv | August 13, 2007 11:42 AM | Report abuse

f jon jansen... he better stop sucking at life.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya | August 13, 2007 11:46 AM | Report abuse

BangkokBen, the Redskins are facing 2006's 4th ranked D when they play Miami.

Ranking of the Titans D in 2006? 32. That's right, the d-line that was giving your o-line problems on Saturday was the only team ranked below the Redskins last year.

Now F me for talking SO much trash so early.

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Redcoat,

Have the fins found an offense?

Seriously, how will they score?

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Suisham wasn't in camp last year. He was brought in as midseason competition for Novak, Nick.

We're giving him a little too much grief, I think. He was 9-11 last season and his kickoffs were good. A 47 yard kick is not a chip shot. (that rookie for the Titans missed a 26 yarder).

I say bring in competition after the next game if he stinks is up.

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Jeez can we cut Jansen some slack? Suck at life? Dudes been ballin for us for years, was a home grown player....signed for less money...everything we cry that we want.....

Can we wait until week 3 to crucify him...

Call me a softy but I enjoy actually liking the players on the Skins, especially guys been here there whole career.....

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 11:50 AM | Report abuse

pasi . . . whatever: yeah, I've decided to focus solely on the fact that should Frosty maintain this first game performance on punts, he'd end up third in the NFL on season-long average (I'm comparing to last years NFL stats). Since all else for the team, right or wrong, good or bad, needs more games to come out in the wash, that stat is my only consolation.

Well, that and "The Ron", of course. First game echos of every hit he ever made on Alabama QBs . . .

Posted by: stevie in gp | August 13, 2007 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Jeez can we cut Jansen some slack? Suck at life? Dudes been ballin for us for years, was a home grown player....signed for less money...everything we cry that we want.....

Can we wait until week 3 to crucify him...

Call me a softy but I enjoy actually liking the players on the Skins, especially guys been here there whole career.....

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 11:50 AM


--the softer side of chris larry???

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I guarantee victory for the Skins in Week 1 over Miami. In mismatches as great as this one, I can branch out from only predicting victories for the Bungles.

Posted by: Chad Johnson | August 13, 2007 11:53 AM | Report abuse

periculum, I agree. Wade is a good RT but I think, even w/ his height, he'll turn out to be a descent LG. We have the right o-line coach for his transition.

What people fail to realize are the problems our o-line had early last year. We had a number of 0 gain rushes earlier in the year. I hope Gibbs and co. realize the need of a few early round o linemenan or free agents.

Posted by: NEskinsfan | August 13, 2007 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Interesting comments.... way to early to to tell much yet including the state of the O line. My impressions are campbell gives us way more on the upside (playmaking) but we have to live with the miss read, over throw etc... for now. Had a feeling that the d would stabilize just beter chemistry,players at key spots (Fletcher) speed (rocky mac) and talent (Landry) we should be solid. heyer, mason buzbee, wilson, doughty, sartz and HB are players to keep an eye on over the rest of the preseason, see if some stick or and some make the practice squad for future develpement, might be a couple others i didn't mention....preseason games for most developing nfl teams are kind of raggad don't read too much into the first one just look at individual play and general play of the units 1st team while they are on the field.....don't base your season assesment on this game.

Posted by: Old School | August 13, 2007 11:57 AM | Report abuse

The elephant in the room

Why aren't we considering Collins as a starter? Yes, Collins.

He was smooth. He didn't appear nervous. HE MOVED THE TEAM and HE GOT IN THE END ZONE. Hello? Is there anybody out there?

Please send Brunell back to the Outer Banks or Mayberry or wherever he lives. He's done and he laughed after he fouled up. Don't like him.

We could have had Trent, Garcia, Harrington, or Dante, ..so let's TRY Collins.

Posted by: Bronc | August 13, 2007 11:59 AM | Report abuse

We don't get the preseason games, it sounds like I missed a lot of bad football on Saturday but IT WAS A PRESEASON GAME!! and it was the first, ending with a "W"

I'll give them a chance to clean it up by this weekend before I start pissin and moanin

Posted by: CJ in CB, NC | August 13, 2007 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Just remember all it was just the first preseason game and lots of other teams looked just as bad. I know we are all gunshy from last year but lets see if there is an improvement next week.

Posted by: JoeyV | August 13, 2007 12:02 PM | Report abuse

CL, I have not been impressed with Jansen over the past season and sat didnt help any... I thought Todd W. did a much better job in spot duty last year.

Just saying, but how come a guy who has been an "anchor" for the skins for years, got pushed around like tina turner?

Posted by: Inigo Montoya | August 13, 2007 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Good lord, Bronc. Can we get through one training camp without calling for yet another new quarterback to solve all the skins' problems?

Posted by: Sharon | August 13, 2007 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Just as the wise and precient Old School checks in with a reality slap soooo desperately needed...Bronc ramps up the wacko factor again turning the blog into sports talk radio...

Can u imagine the screaming if we had signed Harrington back in March?!?!

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 12:03 PM | Report abuse

So the public practices are over... is there a JG press conference this week? Anything else we should be looking for, leading up to the PGH game?

The Ashburn weather looks rough again this week, temps in the 90s. Forecast calls for plaid shorts and short practice sessions.

Anybody going to the game on Saturday? Tailgaters need practice, too.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Bronc,

He was going against 3rd and 4th stringers at best. Enough said.

Posted by: JoeyV | August 13, 2007 12:06 PM | Report abuse

seriously? Todd Collins for QB... yikes, I guess we should all take a collective blog-breath and remember what a first pre-season game looks like.

FYI, I am not being chicken little about jansen, just dissappointed that he is playing so poorly.

Lots of other teams looked like crap this past weekend.

Posted by: Inigo Montoya | August 13, 2007 12:06 PM | Report abuse

"due to muffed kicks"

hmmm, some sort of sexy new shoe?

wheres the SJK?

Oh flag on me and my dirty mind

Posted by: Zebra | August 13, 2007 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Its always going to be about the O line. The Skins NEED to be able to run to have any success. If the Skins can not run ... then Campbell will see nothing but blitzes and that spells disaster. And ball control goes out the window which means the defense will be on the field too much. And with little depth on the D line that also spells disaster. No question the Skins NUMBER 1 priority has been the O line for the last few years. Especially since the O line is injury prone and aging. Why they have done so little is just mind boggling.

Posted by: AL | August 13, 2007 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Bramlett picked up by Falcons. He'll probably be in the Pro Bowl in 2-3 years.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/News/Articles/2007/08/Falcons_sign_Amey_and_Bramlet_waive_Campbell.aspx

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2007 12:14 PM | Report abuse

It's ridiculous to talk about dumping Pretty Boy Lloyd. Remember that issue known as the salary cap? Signing bonuses accelerate when a player is cut and the Redskins probably don't have the cap room to make it happen. Maybe PBL can become the personal punt protector for 2007?

Posted by: Mr. Garrison | August 13, 2007 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Folks:

I think we're forgetting that this was a 5-11 team last year. Yes, there were injuries. Yes, in many respects you can say it more fluke than fact. But in the NFL, you are what your record says you are. And 5-11 says that you are bad.

Did you really expect the Skins to come out in Preseason Week 1 and look like the Colts? Come on, take a reality check.

This team might grow into a playoff contender in a weak NFC, but it highly unlikely that they start off like gangbusters. The key word is "grow." Let's see what they do next week. Let's see if they show improvement.

We need to collectively keep our expectations realistic. This is a team coming off a 5-11 season with a 7-start QB. It's not going to be rosy from the get-go.

Posted by: CMoney | August 13, 2007 12:17 PM | Report abuse

refresh my memory, when was Tom Brady drafted?

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Re: B-Lloyd

Dude is an Azz obviously BUT the best scenario for Skins is that he can play more like he did 3 years ago in San Fran....where he had a good year...i know b/c he was on my fantasy team.....

Cutting him, having him stink, or riding the pine all hurt the skins....lets just hope he contributes...

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 12:21 PM | Report abuse

You are probably right, etrod, to give Suishy another game before preaching the doom and gloom. Suishy was servicable last year and he won the mid-season competetion with Nicky pushing him. He has potential but I worry (...always worried this time of year...) about his hang time, directional kicks, and distance on kickoffs and long FG. Although he was pretty much money on every FG kick of 40 and under last year, I'd still like to see him hit a higher number of the difficult 40+ kicks.

Posted by: Pasifikawv | August 13, 2007 12:21 PM | Report abuse

The notion that Tom Collins is going to blossom into a #1 quarterback after 12 years warming benches around the league is preposterous.

17 starts in the NFL, 40 game appearances total, in twelve seasons. Based on that, if you want to crown him, then go ahead and crown him.

If Collins is under center during the regular season, that will mean something has gone horribly wrong.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 12:23 PM | Report abuse

It's amusing how some of you have already pushed the panic button. LMAO. Bronc? Collins the starter? I even thought about that too but look who he worked his magic against on Saturday night. The scrubs. I could've worked magic against them. Make no mistake Collins knows the system. But Campbell is the future. You don't know go putting a new QB in three weeks prior to the start of the season.

Then he has to get working on timing and everything else and that doesn't happen overnight. Campbell is it. As for the lefty line experienment? Hopefully they do make a change. You don't risk continuing that with Pitt and B'more on the horizon. Jason's right.

As for Jansen..he's not getting any younger. The man has been a stud. Hopefully the skins are looking O'Line in the next draft or two. But some of you rip Jansen as if he's never done squat while here. Get a clue. It's one pre-season game...and yea there are concerns but as Campbell said..some of that crap that happened Saturday night is correctable. We shall see what happens.

And the "D" damn they looked good at times vulnerable but that happens with any defense. Hopefully the swagger returns. Patience people...patience.

Hail

Posted by: Jonathan | August 13, 2007 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Start Collins! Brunell is dreadful. No other way to put it - he inspires that team as much as a pile of dung.

ZERO points until the last quarter? Are you kidding me?!

Jansen looked like a cupcake rookie!!!! The whole O looks like cupcakes!

Most inspirational hit of the night came from the freakin punter!!!!

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Mike H., the "Heyer" sack was JCamp's fault. Heyer was responsible for a d end and a blitzer, can't block both, and the d end might have ended Campbell's season. Still, Heyer is an undrafted rookie, he has no business protecting the franchise's blind side. Wade needs to be a tackle at least until Samuels is back. On another note, Brunell looked exactly the same. Even under extreme pressure, Jason Campbell made some plays and definately showed flashes. Collins should be the backup, he came in and immediately moved the team, I don't care if it was third string. He beat their blitzes (which Brunell could not do) every time and put the team in scoring position with an awesome pass to Edwards. I say J. Campbell, T. Collins, bring back Bramlet for third string and put Palmer on the practice squad until next year.

Posted by: Will J | August 13, 2007 12:28 PM | Report abuse

and so now we have the "Punter Hunter" and the "Hunter-Punter".

I suck (SJK). Someone can do better than that for Frosty.

Posted by: stevie in gp | August 13, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Collins was going against lesser competition - yes... He was also throwing to scrubs - it all evens out in the wash... At least Collins hit his receivers! Does Boonell?

Does Collins call a TO two times before the end of the 1st or 3rd quarter? Boonnell goes through TOs like stuff through a goose!!!!

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I just read the whole O line breakdown that Andrew linked to above and it was very good--very informative and I haven't found many good sites for assessing the O line like that. The most suprising thing was that the left side of the O line played better than the right side. This is good news people, not bad. Jansen will be fine and Thomas will be more than fine...

Posted by: WrongDog | August 13, 2007 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Are Wyatt's posts cut and pasted from last pre-season....Niether one is the starter dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now if your argueing for Collins as number 2, I got no beef with that....but ain't happing so fuget about it...

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 12:34 PM | Report abuse

I have no problem with Collins being the #2, after seeing that Brunell appears incapable even of those vaunted 'game management/throw the ball away/avoid negative plays/just don't lose the game' abilities he honed over the past few seasons. I'm just saying that any notion he should be starting is poppycock.

At this point, Collins may be all right in this system, but he has no 'upside.' Campbell has upside, and tons of it, and he's the only one of our top 3 QBs about whom you can say that.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I should have been more attentive - I know JC is our starter... I would just LOVE to see Collins out there with the first team to see what he can do... IMO - I think they will not let Collins work with the first team in a game because they're afraid he will flourish - leading to a QB controversy and also harming JC's confidence...

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 12:37 PM | Report abuse

The only time Todd Collins ever flourished was when there was a clipboard sale at Staples.

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 12:40 PM | Report abuse

So I got confused on this and only heard back from littery genius (hence the need for a second opinion): is it standard for the starters to play progressively MORE in the second and third exhibition game, and then for most of them to play only a tiny bit of the final game? Or will the starters play progressively less in each of these games?

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Refresh my memory etrod - who was the person playing quarterback when we scored our only offensive TD this past weekend?

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Joe T, Doug W, and Mark R - ALL SB winning Redskin QBs... Weren't they all clipboard jockeys for at least two years each?

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Wyatt,
That is true, Collins starting would hurt JC's confidence. Also, JC is the only QB on the squad who has the arm to complete that out to the sideline that Randle El turned up for twenty yards. I think if something happens to JC, Collins is the one who should be in the game because he knows that offense so well, he can hide the signs of an aging QB that Brunell cannot hide.

Posted by: Will J | August 13, 2007 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Can we please trade for Kendall from our past farm team, I mean the Jets. I'd love to see them make that move or flip flop Jansen and Wade cause JJ and cutting it at RT anymore, he was struggling near the end of the year last year and he got beat like a red headed stepchild Saturday. Once Samuels is back things will be fine on JC's blindside, but running the ball we need help at LG.

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I say lets put Vinny (Cerrato) in at LT. He'd probably do better at that than what
we have on the O line and what he isn't capable of doing in his current job.

Posted by: Mr Vern | August 13, 2007 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Not trying to pile on, Wyatt, but you gotta admit, all we know is that Collins looked good in a fairly simple offense during a few drives at the end of our first preseason game. That's not a huge body of work to hang your helmet on.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Nate, usually the 3rd game is the one where most of the starters really play. First game they usually play a quarter, second around a quarter (I think) and the last game very little if at all.

Gibbs said that he usually does not play his starters for very long during the first game but decided to keep them in longer this year. He also said that if they had been making progress during the game he would have pulled them sooner.

Posted by: Lisa | August 13, 2007 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Whoa there, Wyatt. While you're asking memory questions, can you even name a single person on that T*ttain defense that was defending on that particular set of plays? I'm pretty sure that the people Not-Kerry Collins was facing are a veritable "Who's That?" and "Not Here For Much Longer" of the NFL. Just because a QB threw a touchdown in the last quarter of a preseason game doesn't mean future success is guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination.

Posted by: FlimFlam | August 13, 2007 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Lisa.

It did seem strange to see Soup out there at the end of the first half, but I completely understand the desire to get something going with the starters. What a miserable first half it was for the O. Again, thank goodness nobody got hurt.

So we should be expecting about a half from the starters on Saturday.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 12:49 PM | Report abuse

In general, starters play progressively more each game (thru game #3) in the preseason. Figure the Redskins starters on offense to play all of the first half again this week, based on last week. Time in game #4 is reserved for determining who stays and who gets cut to get down to the regular season roster number.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2007 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Nate - all we know is - JC worked with the first team for weeks now and what result did he have? JC had the 1st team O line.... Collins had scrubs... Collins has how many reps in practice compared to JC? The people who were playing with JC had how many reps in practice under this system compared to the players that Collins was working with?

There is NO logical argument for refusing to allow Collins to compete with the first team in a game!

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 12:52 PM | Report abuse

It's August, and it's Washington. Late March starts cherry blossoms, July starts absurd heat and humidity, August starts the quarterback controversy.

"At this point, Collins may be all right in this system, but he has no 'upside.'"

To be fair, Baltimore got some pretty rings out of an "all right" short-term-solution quarterback.

Posted by: Sharon | August 13, 2007 12:54 PM | Report abuse

"Just because a QB threw a touchdown in the last quarter of a preseason game doesn't mean future success is guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination."

Maybe not - but a starting QB who only got his team in scoring position once (a 47 yard field goal try) pretty much tells us that a losing season is better odds than a winning one!

If a Redskin coach were to name the one QB who knew the offensive system the best, who would they name? That's right - Collins.

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Soup's gotta learn sometime. It's not as if the rest of the pieces are there for this team to go anywhere. 5-11, 4-12, 7-9-- does it make that much difference?

Posted by: Sharon | August 13, 2007 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Wyatt, what are you drinking? As others have stated on here, Collins was playing against the 3 & 4th string defense. While he should have a shot at being the backup in no way should he be the starter.

How many years was he a backup in KC? I don't know the actual number but it was more than a few. If he had the potential to be a starter, he would have been grabbed by some other team.

By the way, Trent Green did not look good in Miami's first preseason game....the Colts did not look good in their first preseason game and Drew Brees did not look good in his first preseason game. He looked better in the second game.

You are trying to crown (in the immortal words of Denny Green) Collins for nothing.

Posted by: Lisa | August 13, 2007 12:59 PM | Report abuse

"Baltimore got some pretty rings out of an 'all right' short-term-solution quarterback"

That was quite possibly the worst team ever to win a superbowl. The first Tom Brady Pats team is the only competition. You think that team could win one now? Please.

JC is QB. I don't care if we go 4-12. Stick with him. Collins can't play once it is for real.

Posted by: Mike H. | August 13, 2007 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Okay, Wyatt - you've made your point. Now call Ashburn and convince Gibbs.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2007 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah... who was the last QB that "had to learn sometime"??? Heath someone? Who did we cut to keep him???? Snickers bar for the correct answer....

Posted by: Wyatt Earp | August 13, 2007 1:01 PM | Report abuse

(yawn)

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2007 1:03 PM | Report abuse

babe laufenberg was purdy dadgum good at those 4th quarter comebacks in the pre-season too. where's he?

Seriously, Wyatt, either you're absolutely pretending, insanely stupid, or Collins agent. Which is it?

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm not too worried. This was the first preseason game and it's my understanding that the practices have not been too close to game conditions. So, they'll probably need some time to click.

That said, I was under the impression that Tennesee is slated to have a bottom ranking defense this year. A little scary.

Posted by: nyskinsfan | August 13, 2007 1:06 PM | Report abuse

hey annie re: the genius comment up above. i know how you feel. cuz i feel the same way about people who say "serenity now".

baby, it's been too long since we as fans rooted for anything close to a winner. i really don't know what differentiates people like you and i. are you a fan of the team? or do you just follow the team? how long have you been rooting for the team? how busy are you in your everyday life? maybe it's just our personality.

i just don't want ANOTHER losing season and EVERYTHING is pointing for this experiemnt to fail.

and i know what comment hurt you the most. it was me calling JC a one trick pony. wasn't it? it's okay baby. i'll be right here when he actually becomes a decent QB. i'm not going anywhere. you can tell me how wrong i was. and i'll just have to kiss you. cuz that would mean everything is all good with our beloved team. until then i'm afraid you gonna have to listen to all the negativity.

Posted by: LG | August 13, 2007 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Damn Wyatt, you're making me want a drink.

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 1:10 PM | Report abuse

One preseason game without our starting RB, LT and RG and already people are talking about making Collins a starter and benching Jansen. This is some crazy sh$% (SJK). I guess positive day went down the crapper.

We should be happy with the performance of the defense, new acquisitions such as London Fletcher, LL, H.B. Blades etc. Not to mention the way Golston and Monty played. I'm not reading too much into the performance of the offense until starters start getting back in there (i.e. most of our O-line and star RB). Soup looked a little excited at first and missed some throws and didn't pick up that the safety was coming on a blitz. Not Heyer's fault. Even Samuels wouldn't have been able to pick up the DE and the safety at the same time. After a while Soup calmed down a bit and started doing better.

Relax people. At least we got the W. This time last year we were headed for a winless pre-season. And put that talk of making Collins a starter to rest. That's crazy talk.

Posted by: bigfish | August 13, 2007 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Joe T, Doug W, and Mark R - ALL SB winning Redskin QBs... Weren't they all clipboard jockeys for at least two years each?

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 12:44 PM

Key phrase: 2 years each...not 12.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2007 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Then who are we going to get to replace Samuels/Jansen...love'em but they're the most overrated tackle tandem in the league!

Posted by: Jake Jacoby | August 13, 2007 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Hey - I hope JC is the next coming of Joe Montana... but seriously... what is logic of not giving Collins a chance with the first team? At least after JC is pulled in the second quarter... Boonnell is obviously waaaay past his prime.... JC simply has not produced yet...

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Maybe this question was already asked, but who do we have in mind to play LG if we move Wade to LT?

Posted by: Neil in Durango | August 13, 2007 1:19 PM | Report abuse

and i took back my comments about JC. i think my anger was misdirected a little bit. i was angry and he was the one pulling the trigger on teevee. later on i redirected my anger at weird al.

and am i the only one who thinks that the o-line will be fine? it's CP that i'm concerned about. cuz without him the O isn't going anywhere.

Posted by: lg | August 13, 2007 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Remember how good Danny Wuerfel looked running Spurrier's offense in the Pre-season a few years back?

He knew the offense better than anyone on the roster and look what that got us.

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 1:20 PM | Report abuse

"That was quite possibly the worst team ever to win a superbowl."

Spoken like a true Skins fan. :P

They had one of the best defenses of all time, and a solid running game. They got hot when they needed to and won it all. I would take the team over many of the winners in recent years, minus the Pats.

To say they were the worst is a stretch.

"Wyatt, what are you drinking?"

Lisa, you can't talk sense to people on this blog because many of them are drinking the same thing. ;)

Jason, I saw the same team Saturday I've seen since Gibbs left the first time. It's gonna be a long season.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | August 13, 2007 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Wyatt,

Help me to understand the logic of wasting 1st team snaps on someone who has no long term future with this team. What is the long term benefit to the team of satisfying your short term curiosity to see Collins play with the first team?

The future of this franchise does not rest with an old dude who hasn't been able to ascend to the rank of starter at any time over the past decade. The future may or may not be JC, but for now the stage is his and he shouldn't have to share it with an understudy who is past his prime.

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 1:29 PM | Report abuse

And the answer to the trivia question "Who got cut to make room for Heath Shuler?"..... Gus Frerotte - 4 time Pro Bowler!

Danny W is hardly an apt comparison... Danny W was The Ball Coach's pick... Collins has had to fight for a job i the NFL for how many seasons? It's time to see if he has what it takes; because it is OBVIOUS that JC cannot take us to the promised land - at least not this season....

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone happen to watch the Saints pre-season opener or the Colts opener? They both looked like crap. Do you think they're headed for a losing season as well?

Posted by: bigfish | August 13, 2007 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"Help me to understand the logic of wasting 1st team snaps on someone who has no long term future with this team."

You mean like Doug Williams a few years back?

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Stop responding to the idiots suggesting Collins should compete for the starting job. That is the kind of thinking that has kept us from advancing as a franchise for most of two decades. We have a plan. Lets stick to the plan for once. Give it a couple seasons. Jason Campbell is not Heath Shuler and Collins is not Trent Green. Relax and watch them crush the Steelers starting D this Saturday.

Posted by: Mike H. | August 13, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

"And the answer to the trivia question "Who got cut to make room for Heath Shuler?"..... Gus Frerotte - 4 time Pro Bowler!"

Huh?

They were drafted the same year.

Posted by: Sharon | August 13, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Hey Bigfish - just how many series did Manning start? You kind of get a "pass" when you have a big ring...

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Wyatt - It was ONE freakin' game (preseason at that). Are you serious? JC is the real deal. He had no o-line; therefore, no running game or pass protection. He'll look better when the o-line works itself out and Clinton and Ladell are full go.

Posted by: CC | August 13, 2007 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Wyatt,

The Skins were not trying to re-establish themselves after multiple losing seasons when Doug Williams was plugged in.

Do you honestly think this team can afford to live just for this season?

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Amen Mike H.!!! I sense some positivity coming back.

Posted by: bigfish | August 13, 2007 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Osaka - The game that will forever live in infamy.

don't be blinded by the Osaka Syndrone.

Posted by: the don | August 13, 2007 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"Stop responding to the idiots suggesting Collins should compete for the starting job."

Mike,

Since I used Wyatt as my excuse to have a glass of wine, I figured I might as well respond to his posts in the spirit of getting to 77,777.

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 1:38 PM | Report abuse

ITW

Posted by: bigfish | August 13, 2007 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Lexington, KY


Aug 13 Today
Sunshine and clouds mixed. A stray shower or thunderstorm is possible. High 93F. Winds N at 10 to 15 mph.
Aug 13 Tonight
Mainly clear. Low 62F. Winds NE at 5 to 10 mph.
Aug 14 Tomorrow
Except for a few afternoon clouds, mainly sunny. High around 90F. Winds ENE at 5 to 10 mph.
Aug 14 Tomorrow night
A few isolated thunderstorms developing late under partly cloudy skies. Low 69F. Winds light and variable. Chance of rain 30%.
Aug 15 Wednesday
A few thunderstorms possible. Highs in the mid 90s and lows in the low 70s.
Aug 16 Thursday
Times of sun and clouds. Highs in the upper 90s and lows in the low 70s.
Aug 17 Friday
A few clouds. Highs in the low 90s and lows in the low 60s.
Aug 18 Saturday
Partly cloudy. Highs in the mid 80s and lows in the mid 60s.
Aug 19 Sunday
Partly cloudy with a stray thunderstorm. Highs in the mid 80s and lows in the low 70s.

Posted by: loco mullin | August 13, 2007 1:40 PM | Report abuse

hooray! loco mullin!

now all we need is a *sallie mae* sighting up here and we'll be ready for the season.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 1:42 PM | Report abuse

"because it is OBVIOUS that JC cannot take us to the promised land - at least not this season...."

Based on one game Wyatt? Pre-season game at that... Really? Wow, thats a statement. Do you work for miss cleo? Lets STOP talking in ABSOLUTES with caps lock when NONE of us know what the future will hold.

You are not going to convince ANYONE that Collins should be the starter. If he has a great camp, gets second team reps and plays awesome in the 4th game, then you can start making your pitch. Until then, lets watch what happens and hope JC is getting into a groove.

And I will not judge JC until our Line is healthy and so is our backfield. Having Portis ir Betts to hand off to can keep a Defense honest and Having cooley running routes instead of blocking will go far to help out a young QB.

Posted by: Zebra | August 13, 2007 1:44 PM | Report abuse

I, too, applaud the return of loco mullin. Welcome back, sir!

Posted by: P Diddy | August 13, 2007 1:46 PM | Report abuse

We will have no problem getting to 100K early in the season if 800+ messages on a preseason game day and close to 200 messages on the Monday morning after are any indication...

Posted by: P Diddy | August 13, 2007 1:47 PM | Report abuse

It's a good day when Loco Muffin returns. **hugs**

Posted by: Cindy | August 13, 2007 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else amused by the Kanye West vs. 50 Cent "debate"?

How quaint.

Posted by: P Diddy | August 13, 2007 1:49 PM | Report abuse

We're about to hit 73k...let's not forget that the drunk dialing advice helped boost numbers, too.

Posted by: Cindy | August 13, 2007 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I would like to see Jordan Palmer play next week as the #3 quarterback. It is definatly
time for Brunell to move on.

Posted by: gawnpostal | August 13, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of Miss Cleo, the Magic 8-ball agrees with the Collins guy.

Posted by: SMACK | August 13, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

welcome back loco!

Posted by: littery | August 13, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

HAHAHAHAHAH gus went to only 1 pro bowl in a joke year and he was drafted the same year as shuler. Wyatt, there is a logical argument for Collins not being the starter and it is that you are a SJK idiot!

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Wyatt, how does this lineup work for you? We should start Antwwwwaaaan at QB and JC at LT, move Heyer to WR? I don't think any of them can get them to the promise land based on the one preseason game I've seen and there is no logical argument why this lineup wouldn't work.

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I think Wyatt outed himself with the Shuler/Ferotte comment....they were drafted same year, and Ferotte beat him out.....you were way off base....not to mentioned Ferotte did not go to 4 probowls.........

But hey he is contributing to post count!

Next up on Wyatt's agenda:

"Blaylock MUST BE THE RB. Portis and betts are not saunders guys, never fit tyhe system. Lets see Blylock with the first team. ITS OUR ONLY HOPE!!!!!!"

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat,

Have the fins found an offense?

Seriously, how will they score?

Posted by: bangkokben | August 13, 2007 11:49 AM

Ben, you've cut me to the quick. I confess that I have no adequate response to this surgical strike on the logical falsehood of my arguments.

Seriously though, I believe (nobody knows for sure yet) that Trent Green will be an effective QB, and that we (Miami) finally have a half-way decent running game.

This gives us options to go deep or run the play-action which is omething we haven't been able to do consistently since God was a boy (SJK), or more accurately #13 was in his prime.

If there's one thing you guys know, it's that Cam Cameron can scheme an offense.

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 2:02 PM | Report abuse

That disgusting Loadman

Posted by: 4-12 | August 13, 2007 2:03 PM | Report abuse

That's impressive one-handed typing there loadman.

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 2:05 PM | Report abuse

wow! loadman survived 6 minutes up here.

Posted by: lg | August 13, 2007 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Who in the hell left the gate open??? Whoever it was, I hope they hurry up and lock it -- with Loadman on the other side. Dang...

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 2:07 PM | Report abuse

what will become of jack's kids?

Posted by: lg | August 13, 2007 2:08 PM | Report abuse

For my sins I watched a bit of one AFL game. Did any of you see this guy play? He may really have a shot at making it in the NFL.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/rush/507882,CST-SPT-rush13.article

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 2:08 PM | Report abuse

hurry home jack!

Posted by: lg | August 13, 2007 2:09 PM | Report abuse

HAHHAAAHHAHHAAA destined for sadness, prolly before reading this blog though since Snyder doesn't seem likely to sell or die anytime soon. But I did report the "man's" post.

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Jack just SJKed his own kids.

Posted by: Cindy | August 13, 2007 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Jack,

Just out of curiosity. How old are your kids?

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Fine - you guys stick with what got us to nowhere the last few seasons... I really hope I am wrong - but experience tells me I'm not... And Gus F went to FOUR Pro-Bowls; not one. He was let go to keep Heath Shuler...

The future is NOW! We have no young studs in the wings! At least not on offense...

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 2:12 PM | Report abuse

I watched the game and JC will be fine... Other than the fumbles... Remember he needs experience... give him a chance. I saw some ridiculous posts about how we is worthless on the previous thread... and that is flat out RIDICULOUS!
The O-Line was bad period. Pass protection and run blocking BLEW A GOAT (SJK). Let's just hope this is a result of no time to build chemistry with a couple of new guys and some shaking off the rust, otherwise we have issues, expecially if Chris Samuels isn't back in a 2-3 weeks. Hopefully, Todd Wade will improve with more time.

On another note Ade Jimoh can't cover a Turtle! He's got to go as a DB. If it wasn't evident the past 2 or 3 years when he played as a backup it sure as hell was last night. Backup WR's were burning him like crazy! Did anybody else see how much cushion he was giving up and still flailing away! He can't be that good on ST's! HOLY COW!

I loved that L2 hit on Collins! BAM! Man-you could see Kerry in PAIN trying to get up quickly...weeww!

Posted by: E in VB | August 13, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Some things I'd like to see this weekend against the Steelers.

1. Stay healthy (of course)

2. If our defense can hold up against Worthlessberger, Willie Parker and the rest of the Steelers O. If they do, I'll be pumped.

3. LaRon Landry lay the wood a couple more times. A defensive turnover, preferably an INT.

4. Soup lead the team on at least one scoring drive.

5. Improvement in the play of O-Line and Squishy.

Posted by: bigfish | August 13, 2007 2:14 PM | Report abuse

i think he said 10 and 13...or 7 and 9 somewhere between 1-12.

Posted by: lg | August 13, 2007 2:15 PM | Report abuse

I was wrong... he did go to only 1 Pro-Bowl... sorry... and that is one more than Heath what's his name....

Posted by: Wyatt | August 13, 2007 2:16 PM | Report abuse

I think Wyatt is a chain-yanker........The Ferotte/Shuler proves it....

Posted by: chris laRRry | August 13, 2007 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, lg. LOL I couldn't remember if he'd shared their ages before.

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Wyatt: Say it with me, "Ferotte beat shuler out, drafted same year (1st and 7th round)"

Your an idiot

Posted by: cHris larry | August 13, 2007 2:18 PM | Report abuse

One last comment before I wash my hands of Wyatt.

Heath Shuler was let go after the '96 season. He played for the Saints. Gus Frerotte left after the '98 season. Now go check on how your autographed Todd Collins jersey auction is going on ebay.

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Wyatt: Gus Frerotte, 1x Pro Bowl (1996), where are you getting your stats - the back of a cereal packet?

And for those who haven't seen enough of what put Gus in the pantheon of sporting jackasses - it's at 1:36 on this clip!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChNh1BgaIcY

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

It's 10 and 12 actually, though the 12 year old is about to turn 13.

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Poor Gus.....I do still have a soft spot in my heart for him.....

Posted by: chris larry | August 13, 2007 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Having endured through watching him struggle with us a (was it only the year before last?), my soft spot for Gus Frerotte is somewhere out in the middle of the Florida Everglades....

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Those who are predicting doom, and gloom for this team, based on one half game during the pre-season, do the rest of us a favor, and find another site to post on.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | August 13, 2007 2:25 PM | Report abuse

CMoney:

According to the Redskins Legacy special that's been showing on Comcast, the league approved the move to DC and we drafted Sammy Baugh during the offseason in 1932 but our first season in Washington was 1933.

I still say move Jansen inside to left guard and play Todd Wade at right tackle, but the Redskins' brain trust won't listen to me (the lowly fan). Jansen is too slow to stay out on the tackle spot; move him inside. Wade played much better than Jansen at tackle last year; why not let him play where he is effective? It's not rocket science folks ....

Posted by: rb | August 13, 2007 2:30 PM | Report abuse

I'm still for swapping out Heyer and Wade in the short term. Right now you have a stud tackle playing out of postion and a rookie trying to adjust to the NFL.

Moving Wade to LT until Samuels comes back protects Cambell in the short term and maybe Heyer, having less experience at tackle, can make a better adjustment to left guard than Wade would.

I would be for just moving Wade to tackle and letting someone else play guard, but apparently everyone else stinks, so why not Heyer?

Posted by: etrod | August 13, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

" ... My wish list for Tennessee:
1. Some kind of running game available up the middle w/o Portis.
R. A second TE who can catch and gain yards after the hit.
viii. REAL stats from the kicker and punter who have not had to compete.
$. Either a special teams coverage TD or a defensive TD (from the first team guys). ..."

Posted by: dcsween | August 10, 2007 11:37 PM

1. Nope.
R. CHECK. Eric Edwards
viii. CHECK. Punter tackles - one. [It counts! Its a real stat. Not only will punters have fear when The Safety is on the field, there is no safety when The Punter is on the field.]
$. CHECK. Little Bro Westbrook.

For the primary reason for the first quarter shabingi, see #1 above. Finding the "rhythm" requires input from the rhythmatist, Clinton Portis, or someone else to keep the interior lineman (for example, Polka Stomp Haynesworth) honest and, hence, on their heels a little bit more.

Unfortunately, this should have been apparent to the coaching staff who supposedly learned this lesson when they changed the game plan in Week 10 -- to rely on the run to set up the pass. Instead of the "pass, pass, pass, punt" rhythm that Squinty Saunders tried to establish. All that pressure came from the line and an occasional DB. Going into that exhibition (is flashing just an "exhibition game"?), I was more concerned about Vanden Bosch on the right than I was about Polka Stomp up the middle. Without a power/guts rushing game up the middle, the entire line was squishy. With a balanced offensive game plan (pass v. rush), the O-line will look better.

Big game for Marcus Mason, H.B. Blades, and Eric Edwards. The stats for the day do not look too entirely stinky (esp. in that there is, in fact, a viable #2 TE and some LB depth). http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/gamebook/NFL_20070811_WAS@TEN Don't be fooled by Jimoh ... he was targeted by Tennessee so it one of those "blind pig finding an acorn" type of things.

Brunell v. Collins? Please. Brunell was not as bad as he looked and Collins was not as good as he looked. The only real unfortunate thing about it is that it delays the inevitable roster cut.

Posted by: dcsween | August 13, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Hey - I been wonderin' - is Blades of the 'Canes' Brian & Bennie Bloodline?

Posted by: Dik Shuttle | August 13, 2007 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Didn't someone say the other day that Bennie is HB's dad?

Posted by: Redcoat | August 13, 2007 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Bennie's his dad. It's funny because there are now 2 or 3 dudes on the current roster who were teammates of Bennie's (Shawn Springs, Phillip Daniels, and I want to say there's a 3rd, but can't remember who it is).

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Bennie Blades is the father of H.B. Blades.

Did Dee Brown get cut at the end of last week? He didn't play and wasn't on the inactive list.

Posted by: dcsween | August 13, 2007 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Clearly we need help in fixing our OL depth. It would appear that Kendall and Faneca can be had, but Kendall being the cheaper player to acquire.

Though our defense played nicely, I think we saw that the DL gets little to NO pressure on the QB. The only time we made Collins or Rattay have to hurry was when we blitzed a Safety or Linebacker. I don't understand why the 'Skins haven't tried to aquire a DE (Schobel, Alex Brown) or even show some interest in signing S. Rice to a 1-2 yr deal. Our good showing on D is masking a problem that also needs fixing.

Posted by: Biz | August 13, 2007 2:55 PM | Report abuse

He's gonna be a killer fo sho. Their physical skills were only topped by their intelligence and work ethic. I'm sure those carry down in generations.

Hey - Bennie just got into the college hall of fame, too.

I'm actually VERY psyched that the Skins are discovering the value of "The U" as a resource. I mean, if we had gotten in tune w/ that once JG left the first time, it would have been our guys gettin' into the HOF this year.

F SJK'ing Dallas! Hail!

... I have no idea if I used any of those right... [:-o

Posted by: Dik Shuttle | August 13, 2007 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I've been saying this for the whole offseason, and TN was probably the worst team we could have played first, because they don't have a starting caliber RB on their roster. When the season starts this Dline will not be able to stop the run! blitzing is great but you gotta hold the point of attack and I don't think the front 4 is up to the task. And we desperately need Kendall or Faneca, either one and suddenly we have depth and talent, without either, we are extremely thin and we are undertalented at guard.

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 3:01 PM | Report abuse

The Jets are not going to trade Kendall and the Steelers are not going to trade Faneca. It makes absolutely no sense for either of them to make those moves and if they did, I am sure they would make Danny pay which he would do and then we can all complain about that. It will all be fine when Samuels and Thomas get back in the starting line-up.

Posted by: bigfish | August 13, 2007 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Oh my... You can say what you want about Mr. Snyder, but he would never disgrace himself so.

http://withleather.com/post.phtml?pk=3587

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Dik, I think HB is gonna be a good one, too. I just hope they don't get stupid and think they can cut him and put him on the practice squad because someone else will surely snap him up.

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Jack, we'll see a pretty darn good running team this Saturday night, so at least for a few quarters we'll be able to judge our front seven's ability to handle the run.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 3:13 PM | Report abuse

JustMe - Isn't there always a spot for a smart fast kid on Special Teams ;-)

Posted by: Dik | August 13, 2007 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe how much the O-line, QBs (except depressingly Todd Collins), and the pass rush sucked during the Tennessee game. I'm extremely concerned.

Even for the first game of the pre-season that was not good enough. All the Joe Gibbs apologists need to get real and look at what's staring them in the face.

Posted by: Ed | August 13, 2007 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Nate your very right, here's hoping London bridges'el keeps em falling down but I for one am a little nervous.....any word on whether they plan on playing Griff this week? if he can stay healthy I think we have a chance, if he plays 8 games again we're gonna struggle.

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Man... The first pre-season game and no doubt the Loonies have come out of hiding, way off their rocker, throwing some DUMB stuff about there...

1. Collins played well against 3rd and 4th stringers, Big Deal. It is JC's time... PERIOD.

2. Since when has Todd Wade been a Stud Tackle outplaying Jansen. LOL... Wade has one good game against the Saints last year. That's it. New Orleans is not exactly a Defensive Juggernaut! Give Jansen a break. It was the first pre-season game.

3. Suisham missed a 47 yard FG off the post... Makeable-Yes. Chipshot-No. He had pretty good kickoffs (considering what we've been used too...). I am (not in anyway undercutting the value of a Quality Kicker, but let's not jump the gun... Suisham kicked well for us the end of last year). We already knew we should have had competition at the Kicker nothing has really changed.

Way too many hot-heads that are quickly jumping on & off the bandwagons today!

Personally, I think it's pretty SJK'ing hillarious... Some people just need to chill out...

Posted by: E in VB | August 13, 2007 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Dik,

At the risk of sounding like Ricky Bobby for a moment, I'm not sure I trust the front office to retain young talent that is already on the roster.

But, they were better that normal this past offseason. So, maybe they will make good decisions when they trim the roster down as well.

Posted by: JustMe | August 13, 2007 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Hey guys, just checking in... I'm looking forward to this season! I'll try to get back on board here. Kudos to the faithful still sticking it out from last season. You're better fans than me.

The Dorf Abides

Posted by: Dorf | August 13, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

beep beep!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 13, 2007 3:24 PM | Report abuse

What makes me laugh is the number of people telling us how good the team can be without much evidence to back it up and how easily they dismiss poor play when it's completely evident in front of us all.

Many fans have had doubts about age and poor talent evaluation catching up with us on the o-line, inexperienced (JC) or incompetent (MB) play at QB and complete lack of pass rush all off-season. All the evidence so far points to these doubts being completely valid. The scientist in me is a skeptic until I see evidence to the contrary.

Posted by: Ed | August 13, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Dorf! Yesssss!

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Ed, it's sometimes hard to reconcile the show-me-something scientist with the gotta-believe fan. At least for me it is.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I hear you Nate. I do hope for the best, but the evidence doesn't look good so far.

Posted by: Ed | August 13, 2007 3:37 PM | Report abuse

I knew you'd be happy Nate. I got to go to a friday practice a couple weeks ago... Got a pretty good picture of Joe Gibbs when he met with the masses.

Also, I stopped by the nearby mall afterwards to visit the Redskins store there and who walked past me in the food court? Our beloved Laron Landry. He and I have something in common... Chick-Fil-A son!

Well, here's to a great season!

Posted by: Dorf | August 13, 2007 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Give me a Chick-Fil-A sammich and a jumbo side order of optimism, dudes. Good stuff.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Hey Pre-Season nay sayers:

Remember Japan? Remeber (gag-me) ex-Gator SPURRIER?! I'll take a suk-all preseason for a playoff appearance trade-off any year.

Last year at this time it was Coaching Confusion all around. Even if we had had Indy talent, we woulda SJK'd it up.

This year that is not the case. And until the home kick-off against the Phish, I'm not gettin' down on anyone.

I like the schedule this year. I like our Division matchups this year. I like our chances to hit the playoffs running. Dare I say, as Div. champ?

I think it can happen!

Hail!

Posted by: Dik | August 13, 2007 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Well, I do like the optimism, Dik. It's a little beyond my own -- I'd be happy if we're in contention for a playoff spot with four games to go, playing meaningful games deep into December, and wind up with around 8 wins, a humming offense and staunch defense, and a solidly established QB in Soup. That would be such a huge step forward from last year.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 3:59 PM | Report abuse

So Dorf, how were your offseason and summer? Do you feel refreshed and ready for another school year and season on the blog?

The coaches and I weren't crazy about your plan to train on your own in the offseason, while the rest of us were up here working together. But it sounds like you kept in game shape and maybe even developed some new moves.

Hail.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | August 13, 2007 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Ed, I couldn't agree more, I've been trying to get everyone off the Kool-Aid all offseason. News Flash!!!!! We're not a good team, its time that everyone around here realizes that and quit getting those stupid starry eyed championship ideas outta our heads. The sooner we start realizing that we're a ways from being good the better, my biggest complaint is that there is nobody competent in charge of the direction of this franchise. I'm sorry, I grew up watching Gibbs and love him, but he lost it and is riding the praise from his previous life to get a pass from everyone, he has a very similar record to Spurrier since he's been back and the one season we had success, he blew it all up and went on a spending spree and totally revamped his offense. We are too inconsistent to be good, my dream is that we tank this season, Campbell plays decently though, we blow up the aging defense and stockpile picks around Campbell, Betts, Portis, Moss, Cooley, Taylor, Rogers, Landry, Rocky Mac, Golston, and Montegomery, trade and cut whoever else you can and take a shot at a three year plan to succeed with young talent and stop doing the big spending spree every year.

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 4:03 PM | Report abuse

sorry, I meant the big spending spree every other year.

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Jack, I couldn't bring myself to agree with your desire for us to completely tank this season but I suspect our underlying concerns are the same.

I agree we need fresh talent in core positions and I also agree Joe Gibbs gets a free pass a little too often. This could be his last season and he needs to win now, I'm just not sure that's realistic and it could be to the detriment of this team in the future.

Posted by: Ed | August 13, 2007 4:16 PM | Report abuse

I'll agree that my optimism is probably ahead of most everyone else's. But given that Gibb's systems are BELIEF driven, it doesn't do any good to just deny the possibility of success.

How much worse is this team than the one that went to the playoffs two years ago? I'd say in some positions we are better. Are you going to tell me a playoff team is a bad team? If so, then we're watching different sports.

I want better lineman, the whole league does. Besides the Pats, who's stockpiling talent in this league? Everyone's got holes. I think Williams is one of the better coaches in the league at exploiting them. If we have some players who are willing to listen and learn and don't have the entitlement thing going on (Archie? LaVon?) then we can do some real damage.

I can't wait 'till Rocky or the Reaper welcome Donovan back into the league. Let's see how T.O. feels when LaRon takes one away from him.

The rest of the division has issues just like ours.

I know the AFC East is going to throw it on us. But we have some legitimate speed (again, health not withstanding) back there and it's not going to be all that easy after all.

If Carter can do something... If the Reaper connects on the blitz...

I can reasonably see 8 wins. I can imagine 10.

Posted by: Dik | August 13, 2007 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Dik, I'm hoping for 8 wins, I think 9-7 is the best we can possibly do, and there are plenty of teams that stockpile talent, the Patriots, the Bears (who don't even care if a Pro Bowler like Briggs plays because they have two very good young LB's behind him), the Eagles, the Chargers, the Ravens, and Panthers to name a few all have a lot of quality young depth and strong talent at almost every position. Sure every team has holes, but look at the skins holes:

1. Young inexperienced QB
2. Old aging undertalented DLine
3. Depth at LB
4. Old aging Oline, with little depth behind it
5. and still no compliment to an oft injured Moss

Those are some really big holes!!!! yeah maybe if 97 things fall just right we could sneak into the playoffs but does anybody really think we have a legitimate team to contend? My point is I'm tired of expensive bandaids to maybe sneak into the playoffs again every year, it is way past time to blow this team (that has been mediocre for many years) up and start rebuilding.

Posted by: Jack | August 13, 2007 4:40 PM | Report abuse

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