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Follow-Up Thoughts from the Loss in Cincy

A few last thoughts from that debacle:

Game ball goes to Rock Cartwright. He was running hard and dang near took one to the house at the end there. He was clearly pumped and ready from the onset, while too many teammates seemed flat or caught up in self-aggrandizing antics. He takes his leadership role seriously.

With no pretense of a playoff push now, it will be very telling to see if the Skins manage to get their third- and fourth-round draft picks on the field. Jason Fabini seemed to want to line up deeper and deeper in the backfield as that game went on. Move someone else to tackle and let Chad Rinehart play guard, or whatever. Maybe Jon Jansen comes back this week. Either way, I'd get a handle on what this kid can do, with Pete Kendall a free agent and the age and health of this offensive line obviously a huge issue again this season.

Justin Tryon is stuck behind a deep group of corners, but of the top three, all have some doubt about their future. Carlos Rogers isn't sure if he'll get a long-term extension here. DeAngelo Hall is an unrestricted free agent. Shawn Springs thought he was out of here two years ago, and wonders again what is in store this offseason. Fred Smoot is having a poor season and is at best a third corner at this stage. Why not see what you've got in Tryon; if it's what I think it is, then you're gonna have to add corner to the huge list of needs to address, but give him a few plays.

It's time to take the long view on everything this franchise does. Rhetoric from the owner about having the talent to win a division is empty. Devise a plan, one based on incremental improvement over a three-year period, and stick to it. Don't get sidetracked and distracted every time a malcontent like Chad Johnson acts the fool to get a new contract. (You don't have to chase every Drew Rosenhaus client. Really.)

If you aren't going to change the top decision maker in the franchise, at least find a more suitable framework in which to limit the haphazard way in which talent is assembled. If it's a high-priced guy on the wrong side of 27 or 28 who is looking for a payday, he's not going to be someone who is going to be peaking by the time your revamped roster should be. Build through the draft - although they've destroyed much of that with the dealing of 2009 picks already - and add two or three free agents to fill specific needs after you have established a talent base.

Trading for disgruntled players trying to get a new deal before their current one expires (i.e. Portis and Moss and BLloyd) hasn't really worked. Signing virtually the entire free agent class in one fell swoop failed (i.e., 2006 - Archuleta, Randle El, Carter, Collins, Fauria) was a colossal bust. Ignoring virtually every free agent possible (even smart and cheap options at the bottom tier), reinvesting $50 million in new guaranteed money on your own aging and playmaker-devoid roster, wasting months chasing Chad Johnson, and then over-drafting for a specific need and ignoring other more pressing issues (i.e. the Plan of 2007) didn't work, either.

One offseason isn't going to change or correct all of this. Tricking yourself into thinking it can will only put you in a deeper hole. You gave away one year already by not doing the right thing a year ago and starting to rebuild the lines. For the sake of your fans, don't waste two or three more.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 15, 2008; 11:27 AM ET
 
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Next: Zorn: 'I've Got to Look at Myself'

Comments

Reeducation as it was implemented in Vietnam was both a means of revenge and a sophisticated technique of repression and indoctrination which developed for several years in the North and was extended to the South following the 1975 North Vietnam takeover.
they need severe re-education in how teams win. One fumble and one 15-yard penalty are NOT the reasons this team has put up 11 points per game the last 7 games. The problems are far deeper than a once or twice-a-season mistake.

Posted by: psps23

who knew? a Vietnamese remedy for all that ails the Skins! Thanks so much psps23

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 15, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

1st? Hire Gibbs.

Posted by: eleysium | December 15, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

JLC has been saying this the whole time, while he was being bashed by RIers for just being a hater of the organization.

Guess he was right, and people need to take their glasses off.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 15, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 15, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I keep thinking about our Washington Capitals when I look at the Skins. The Caps have built up their young guys in Hersey and even when they are decimated by injuries as they are now these kids come right in and fill the gap. They have build a strong team that should be strong for years to come. The Skins build for now and it always backfires. I think it's time to blow this team up and start with the O and D lines.

Posted by: RiggoisDrunk | December 15, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Interesting that those fans posting here for the last few seasons and critical of the front office have been bashed by the KoolAide Brigades. Ironically, today's posts are devoid of the usual playoff hype and scenario planning and are full of threads critical of the ownership and front office. So who are the true and honest fans...???

Posted by: i155133 | December 15, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

This team makes me constipated.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | December 15, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Here's the key point: Cerrato said drafting according to need can be a way to sink your team. "You can't just go take a need," was the exact quote. "The way that you can screw up your team is if you go draft a need, you're gonna get a bunch of guys at those positions but you're not gonna be happy with the results."


I guess then VC is happy with the results of the last draft?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 15, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

1st? Hire Gibbs.

Posted by: eleysium | December 15, 2008 12:14 PM |

Get off this stupid Gibbs sh!t, Gibbs did not draft any linemen while he was in charge of all personnel.

Gibbs never won more then 10 games his second time, just because the NFC sucked those two years and we backed into the playoffs you think it was great.

Gibbs is responsible for most of the roster you see now, and they are bad.

Gibbs left after he got what he wanted.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins Franchise can easily be placed with the Lions and Bengals of the NFL. While our owner is happy to spend to money, he just doesn't get the right way to do it. We've had the same pattern of the last 15 years and it is not going to change, no strategy has worked b/c there is no accountability from the top down. Until Dan Snyder comes up and says the buck stops with me, I am the owner and we haven't been getting it done and it rest on me, nothing will change. We might have a few okay seasons but we will never become a winner b/c Snyder doesn't understand what it take to win on the field. Success in business doesn't translate into success on the field. Dan Snyder has no idea what it takes to win on the field b/c he has never been a successful athlete at any level, so he doesn't get it. Good teams are successful b/c their players are hungry to succeed and loyal to their franchise. We let quality players go, Antonio Pierce/Ryan Clark, and bring in players who could care less about winning and just want the big contract, Lloyd, Carter, Arch, the list goes on. Players see the Redskins as a big paycheck with no accountability and that is exactly the types of players we get. Show me the money and I'll give you less than maximum effort.

Posted by: jayandcat | December 15, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree. As much as I bashed JLC for his over-obsession with anti-Vinny vitriol, I realize that Vinny Cerrato is the real problem with this team.

No other amount of empty rhetoric, rah-rah speeches, or band-aids (i.e. free agent trades) are going to fix it. Its not about the dam coach, QB, or scheme. If the organization's not sound enough to bring in young talented football players. It ain't gonna work.

There's no white knight in shining armor (i.e. Gibbs) around to make us feel good about ourselves, anymore. Ultimately, even that was another diversionary attempt by Snyder to keep us from the truth.

The truth being that Daniel Snyder has no idea how to run a football team, and he doesn't have the wits, or the gumption to find someone who does.

Until he learns this, we will become the Niner's of the east.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I guess everyone is going to jump on JLaC. But he's right on. As long as you have Vinnie "running" things, and the midget involved in ANY decision, the Redskins are going no where. Boycott products!

Oh, and i wonder how "green" the stadium will be sunday? A lot of Philly fans are probably going.

Posted by: Leeguru | December 15, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Start the rebuilding by firing Vinnie Cerrato and getting a real GM! Also, I'd fire Zorn as well since his hiring was a "knee jerk" reaction to Spag turning down the skins coaching offer! Zorn hasn't done much to prove himself a capable coach and I'd fire him and hire Bill Cowher (assuming that he'd even consider skins).

I'd also get a dominant defensive lineman so we can get more push on the dline. Release Jason Taylor and start rebuilding a disruptive, dominant defensive line.

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Until he learns this, we will become the Niner's of the east


And guess who was in charge of the Niners when they fell from grace. Yep, that's right Vinny Cerato

Posted by: jayandcat | December 15, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

JZ presser is in session and he sounds as that he is humbiling hisself in order to stay in the HC position for another year (I think Vinny 'coached' him up)...

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

The problem with drafting for talent instead of need is that fact that we don't know the players NFL talent. At least when you draft for need to know that person will be able to help you/ upgrade at a position that lacks talent.
"The sum of the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"

Posted by: NFeKPo | December 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Fire vinny and Move Morroco Brown up,

Every player Morroco has put on the practice squad has been snatched up,meaning he must be doing a good job of evaluating talent.

Vinny even said Morroco is in charge of the back end of the roster.


if your not going to fire vinny then switch the roles of him and morroco. let morroco be in charge of the front end of the roster.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Vinny Cerrato is Dan Snyder's Wes Unseld.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 15, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

The team needed depth at punter! Vinny did a great job! What is wrong with you people!

Posted by: richie_sheppard | December 15, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Zorn sounds humble today.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato's interview and Steinberg's fact checking was enlightening. Cerrato gave a very Nixonian performance. Obscur the truth then tell little lies at first, then bigger lies. But as John Adams said, "Facts can be stubborn things" so I expect the next defense will be denial. Actually, that seemed to be the plan from the very beginning starting early last spring, deny that you have totally screwed up the process of the coaching search by hiring all the staff before you hire the coach. Deny that you totally screwed up the draft. Deny the statistics of those you did draft. Lie about the ones you did not draft. There should be a new term used to describe this since 'Cerrato speak' sounds too cliche. It indeed becomes very Nixonian in its grandeur.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

if your not going to fire vinny then switch the roles of him and morroco. let morroco be in charge of the front end of the roster.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 15, 2008 12:34 PM |

great,

Morroco Brown is respected around the league and would be a good agressive GM.

But I think if you are going to put Morroco in that position you would need to remove Vinny.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

JLC has been saying this the whole time, while he was being bashed by RIers for just being a hater of the organization.
Guess he was right, and people need to take their glasses off.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 15, 2008 12:16 PM

You don't get it, he lumps everything in one and has extreme revisionist history and has already written the future.

JLaC is no GM or Football Guru. He hasn't faulted anything on the Coach and has put waay to much fault on the players and Vinny (at this point)...........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

This presser sounds like the last press conference of the year...

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

WE COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WINNING, WE COULD CARE LESS ABOUT LOYALTY,(SEE A PIERCE,RYAN CLARK)WE CARE MORE ABOUT MAKING A SPLASH ON ESPN,NFL NTWRK,FOX SPRTS,ESPN980 ET AL AND UNTIL WE DECIDE TO FLY UNDER THE RADAR ALL THINGS CONCERNING THIS FRANCHISE WILL NOT CHANGE!!.(PLEASE FORGIVE MY CAPS)

Posted by: dargregmag | December 15, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

One offseason isn't going to change or correct all of this. Tricking yourself into thinking it can will only put you in a deeper hole. You gave away one year already by not doing the right thing a year ago and starting to rebuild the lines. For the sake of your fans, don't waste two or three more.


Thank you JLa, you guys are merciless with the crap you give him, can you all man up now and admit you were wrong and he was right?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

"Interesting that those fans posting here for the last few seasons and critical of the front office have been bashed by the KoolAide Brigades. Ironically, today's posts are devoid of the usual playoff hype and scenario planning and are full of threads critical of the ownership and front office. So who are the true and honest fans...???

Posted by: i155133 "

See the thing there is, anytime someone agrees with one thing the FO did, yall act like we're blind to everything else they've done.

I thought the Jason Taylor move was a good one at the time, doesn't mean I think we have a good front office. I'm also glad we got Portis for Bailey, doesn't mean we have a good front office.

It doesn't have to be one way or the other.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

F Vinny!

cl, regarding your x-mas wish. that could happen only if "loyal" fans like suzanne ditch their tickets, not buy any merchandise, not visit their websites. hurt the lil midget where it hurts!!! in his pocketbook.

F Vinny!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 15, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Zorn said we are not going to evaluate younger players we are trying to win no matter what.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Mediocrity in any organization is a by product of the mediocrity of its leaders. Snyder needs to read some Jim Collins and Malcolm Gladwell, and then he needs to get a real GM and give him the power to run the franchise properly.

It's really hard to root for this team. At this point, I'm only a 'Skins fan because I was "born" one. I'm resting on the first Gibbs-era nostalgia.

Full disclosure: I didn't watch this week's game and probably won't watch the last two either. But I don't really have to watch to know how this little soap opera ends.

Posted by: PDiddy | December 15, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Probably the best post on this blog. Ever. So right on all accounts. There was no bashing. There was no negativity. Straight facts.

This organization is officially in disarray. We are so many years away from being competitive is sickens me.

I wish I had the money to buy a full page ad in the Sports Page of the Post. An Open Letter to Snyder would be a thing of beauty.

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | December 15, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Actually dargregmag the correct term is:

couldn't care less or could not care less

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | December 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The Jason Taylor move was indeed a good one given the circumstances. But the circumstances themselves (lack of depth along either line) are an indictment of the front office's incompetence.

Posted by: PDiddy | December 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Zorn said he is a major part of this decline, and needs to evaluate himself as a head coach.

He is very humble wonder if he had a meeting last night with Dan and Vinny.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I have nothing to say.

Posted by: _Stumped_1 | December 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Springs didn't think he would be on the roster 2 years ago.

Why bring it up? Two Years later and he's still on the roster. Tryon has been labeled a bust and CR22 but JLaC has given him plenty of seasons for him to catch on...

Calls for firing Vinny and saling the owner is more UNREALISTIC than me saying trade Zorn. Trading Zorn would come before firing Vinny.

Snyder will only hire someone he can trust and get along with. So, alot of that BS you 'rational' guys are spitting is a no worse or better than my thoughts......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Trading for disgruntled players trying to get a new deal before their current one expires (i.e. Portis and Moss and BLloyd) hasn't really worked.

Since when was Moss disgruntled? And to say that bringing in Portis and Moss has not worked for us is BS.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 15, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

99% of us have known that Vinny is the problem with this team. I for one do not need to hear JLC say that every week. Both of them are still bums.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 15, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

How much is a full page ad in the Sports section of the WashPo? I didn't think people read paper copies anymore. You could probably get a Google AdWord on "Washington Redskins" that linked to a site where people could sign a petition for Snyder to sell the team.

Not that it would matter, but it would probably get an enterprising young lad/lass out there a Cindy Boren exclusive interview and a week's worth of WashPo "Fans Revolt Against Snyder" headlines.

Posted by: PDiddy | December 15, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

F Vinny!

For the sake of your fans, don't waste two or three more.

aweeeeeeeeeeeee jasno cares! :)) cute, very very cute!

F Vinny!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Here's the problem: the team needs rebuilding. To build through the draft takes years of patience, plus perseverence if initial results are poor. Dan Snyder's instinct is the opposite -- always towards bold action. For Snyder to build through the draft, he must act contrary to his instinct. Not only must he act contrary to instinct one time, but he must continually act contrary to his instinct, every time temptations arises, for YEARS. That is too much to expect. Bold action can often be good, but in owning a professional football team, it does more harm than good. I fear the team will always be this way as long as Snyder runs things.

Posted by: Hobbes3 | December 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I hear rumors that Skins are going after Anquan Boldin and will give Arizona their 1st and 3rd round pick and one of the receivers from last year's draft. I believe the FO believe that we have good enough roster to compete next year and just lack a playmaker receiver to compliment Santana.

Posted by: thewayitis | December 15, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

JLaC is no GM or Football Guru. He hasn't faulted anything on the Coach and has put waay to much fault on the players and Vinny (at this point)...........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 12:39 PM

Dude, he's on record for saying Zorn got conservative in the playcalling since about week 8. He also has been calling for Randle El in the wildcat formation for months now.

He's spread this thing around pretty good. And I'm one of the guys who can't stand him most of the time.

But the long term view of the team and its talent, or lack thereof has to fall on Vinny. JLC is right.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Since when was Moss disgruntled? And to say that bringing in Portis and Moss has not worked for us is BS.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 15, 2008 12:47 PM

Thank you. Revisionist History at it's best. My wife does this to me every other day.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

I would cry tears of joy if they canned vINNY and promoted Morocco...

Diddy so what you are saying is that you are at a "Tipping Point" as a skins fan?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 15, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Since when was Moss disgruntled? And to say that bringing in Portis and Moss has not worked for us is BS.

Posted by: Lisa_R |

Moss was furious at the Jets. He came here in a trade and was rewarded with a huge raise. One of his first statements was something like " finally with an organization that appreciates my worth".

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Well said, J-LaC!

I was so ticked off at the lack of effort and the effusive stench of underperformance that I wrote a sort of David Letterman Top 10 of how badly the Skins stunk up the joint yesterday afternoon:

"The Skins' loss to the Bengals yesterday was as bad as...

1....knowing that your sister was getting married to an oogly man--with bad breath!
2....studying for a biochemistry exam and realizing that nothing you studied for came, and a "bonus" question on it was even harder.
3....finding out that you're related to Michael Jackson; and not only that: he has offered you Jesus juice before.
4....believing that on January 20, 2009, as Barack Obama is about to be sworn in to become the 44th US Prez, the minister/pastor then tells him, "Gotcha!" and the Man makes Sarah Palin his replacement.
5....reading or watching OJ on the loose in a white Bronco again, trying to run from the po-po, so that he doesn't serve jail time after trying to get back his stuff in that Las Vegas hotel room.
6....discovering that Rosie O'Donnell is your mother, and you have to sleep on the same bed as her.
7....laughing at a Ralph Nader joke, despite the fact that your dog just died and you have a kidney stone.
8....holding a pee in crowded stadium, and once the game ends and there's only one Port-a-Potty outside the building in the parking lot, you rush to reach it before others but realize it's occupied by a 400-lb. man--with his own accident taking place inside, without toilet paper or sanitizer.
9....hearing that R. Kelly still doesn't understand what the word "teenager" means and tries to hit on Halle Berry's baby girl.
10....looking Beyonce'--DEAD IN HER FACE--and saying, "Eh. I'm just not that into you."
"

Posted by: KJSkinz44 | December 15, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

diddy, i think i looked into the full page add thing in the paper. it's a LOT of money for one person. we're better off pooling our money. but that requires organization skills. we need a community organizer. we need someone who can get the skins fans across the nation together. we need a hero. WE NEED NATE!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 15, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

They (well, Snyder) have to reject the belief that they can turn this around in one off-season splash. Or that they're a few players away from being a good team.

They need a realistic, incremental muli-year plan to address their needs.

In no particular order: Lines, receivers, corners, linebackers (yeah, other than that they're just fine).

Whichever of those can best be filled this offseason should be addressed first.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 15, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

They (well, Snyder) have to reject the belief that they can turn this around in one off-season splash. Or that they're a few players away from being a good team.

They need a realistic, incremental muli-year plan to address their needs.

In no particular order: Lines, receivers, corners, linebackers (yeah, other than that they're just fine).

Whichever of those can best be filled this offseason should be addressed first.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 15, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I just listened to Zorn's presser, I think he had a long talk last night with Dan and Vinny.

He was overly humble today he has went from one extreme to the other first it was the players, now "I can ask no more of the players I have to look at myself as a head coach"

He can ask that are pro bowl TE hangs on to the football.

He can ask that are FB get a half of a yard and if not don't hold the ball out in front of you until it gets smacked away.

He is part of the problem but these players are playing with no heart and no worries of loosing there jobs thanks to there stupid contracts.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

diddy, i think i looked into the full page add thing in the paper. it's a LOT of money for one person.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 15, 2008 12:55 PM

Given the relations between the Post and the 'Skins, I suspect we would qualify for a "special" rate as a non-profit organization. Maybe even gratis as a public service announcement.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Here's my beginning at a fix:

Keep Zorn
Fire Vinny (will never happen but here's hoping)

Resign:
Hall
Rogers
Evans

Release:
Springs
Washington
Griffin

Sign:
Haynesworth
Two LB's - not stars just decent younger guys with some experience
Derrick Ward
Engram
A good vet punter
A good vet kicker

Draft:
Trade back in round 1 and pick up an extra pick prolly a late 2nd or 3rd

1 - Tyson Jackson - 6'4" 295 Dend LSU (Scouts Inc. #31 prospect with underclassmen factored in)

3 - Oline
3 - Oline

5 - LB/Dline
6 - Best Avail.

Now you have an Oline with Heyer, Rhinehart, Geisinger, the guys signed this week, and two young guys as well, and a mix of every starter from this year except Kendal...that should be a very competitve group and training camp and a major improvement

Dline then has a true stud at tackle, and Alexander, Gholston, and Monte are good enough at the 2nd spot. You have Carter, Evans, Taylor, Daniels, and your new young big stud at End. Haynesworh instantly makes everyone else better (just look at Kearse this year) and you have a young big end perfect for NFC play

LB- core will have fletcher, rocky, blades, your two vet signings and 1 or 2 draft picks

Secondary-
Rogers
Hall
Smoot
and some fill guys.
Not the best in the league but still a very solid unit hall and rogers are quality starters and smoot is a good nickle. These guys are underrated, if they didn't have to cover for a half hour they would be recognized for how good they are.

Safety your good if doughty gets back.

WR- you got Moss with Engram ( a big vet who knows the system and has been very productive in it), you have to give the kids a chance

TE- Deepest group in the league (hahaha jk) thanks to Vinny, if they do anything here Vinny should not just be fired but tarred and feathered.

QB- JC gets one more year with hopefully a legit line.

RB - Betts and Cartwright duke it out in camp to see who stays behind CP and Ward. Ward is a perfect change of pace to CP and could be the eventual replacement.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Dude, he's on record for saying Zorn got conservative in the playcalling since about week 8. He also has been calling for Randle El in the wildcat formation for months now.

He's spread this thing around pretty good. And I'm one of the guys who can't stand him most of the time.

But the long term view of the team and its talent, or lack thereof has to fall on Vinny. JLC is right.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 12:51 PM |

Disagree with you. It has been more than playcalling. It has also been:

Game Management. Examples:

a. Never defering until the 2nd Half. Our O has failed misreably with the 1st possesion of the game. Have you noticed how empty the stadium is during the 1st possesion of the 2nd half?

b. Hasn't demostrated he knows what he's doing inside 2 mins of any half.

c. Dosen't know when to and when to not challenge a play on the field.

d. I'm still not sure if he has fully developed ahurry up offense.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

"99% of us have known that Vinny is the problem with this team. I for one do not need to hear JLC say that every week. Both of them are still bums.

Posted by: Skins930"

I think that sums it up correctly.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

driley, whether Moss wanted out of the Jets or not, he has definitely helped this team - he singlehandedly won the Dallas game for us a few seasons ago - and others as well (JAX). And CP has been the man. For JLC to say they have not worked out is BS.

JLC is thrilled this has happened to our team.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 15, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't it also JLC that said at the beginning of the year that it would take a couple of years to determine whether or not Vinny's strategy will work? And whether or not he can do the job since this is his first season with it all on him?

I agree with the criticism but I don't agree with the idea that after the first year for the "GM", the first year with the Head Coach, anyone can sit anywhere and say "These guys can't get it done".

And I don't understand why everyone wants to "change" again. Does it occur to anybody that this is indeed step ONE in what we all recognize is a MULTI-STEP PROCESS? Let's see what Zorn can do with Cerrato and this new scouting staff, and see if they can't get it together.

It's not time to hit the panic button and change once again. Be angry, sure, it sucks to be a fan of a sucky team, but it can't get better if every time change comes we all freak out when it gets tough. Isn't that what people keep saying has been wrong with Snyder before? Panic when it gets tough and start all over AGAIN.

Snyder needs to give these guys TIME to prove whether or not they can get it done, and then act appropriately.

As far as the game goes, yeah Zorn made a couple bonehead decisions for sure. Two in a row to Sellers with a "healthy" Portis? The second quarter was very good, JC got into a nice rhythm and all was well. Come back from the break and Zorn is back to Portis, Portis, Portis over and over again. I know all the talk that teams have to "ride the horse" and all, but the Bengals were as focused on stopping Portis as they could get. Got to take advantage of that like the did in the second quarter, and when Zorn didn't do it right away, I knew it was over.

Posted by: craig2 | December 15, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

flounder, dude, are you serious? he's counting his millions you zornfan!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 15, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Moss was furious at the Jets. He came here in a trade and was rewarded with a huge raise. One of his first statements was something like " finally with an organization that appreciates my worth".

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 12:55 PM

Have you forgot we traded to get him and dump the UNGRATEFUL L Coles? Thanks for the short memories.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

All these ideas sound great! Just like the ones earlier in the year to hurry up and extend Campbell and Rogers! Love them both but have'd they proved anything this year? Also, I'm pretty sure that 2 of the disgruntled players we traded for and signed are our 2 best offensive players, are they not?

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 15, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

flounder, dude, are you serious? he's counting his millions you zornfan!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 15, 2008 1:02 PM |

You have to be more specific am i serious about what?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Aloha:

Now that the Redskins have self imploded and their 2008 season is all but over, is there any chance that the coaches might treat the last two games as exhibitions and maybe get Colt Brennan some playing time? It would be nice to see if he can contribute in a real game scenario and to test his leadership skills. With Brennan as the number 3 QB, they might also use him as trade bait to help the team next year?

Posted by: Hawaiian | December 15, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Since when was Moss disgruntled? And to say that bringing in Portis and Moss has not worked for us is BS.

Posted by: Lisa_R |

Moss was furious at the Jets. He came here in a trade and was rewarded with a huge raise. One of his first statements was something like " finally with an organization that appreciates my worth".

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Add to that Gibbs & Co acted as if they'd planned the "super smart" move all along when it was a disgruntled Coles who demanded the trade. Skins just got lucky.

Posted by: mack1 | December 15, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Aloha:

Now that the Redskins have self imploded and their 2008 season is all but over, is there any chance that the coaches might treat the last two games as exhibitions and maybe get Colt Brennan some playing time? It would be nice to see if he can contribute in a real game scenario and to test his leadership skills. With Brennan as the number 3 QB, they might also use him as trade bait to help the team next year?

Posted by: Hawaiian | December 15, 2008 1:06 PM |

Zorn said no he will try to win the last two games with his normal starters.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

"Vinny Cerrato is Dan Snyder's Wes Unseld." Well said, 4-12!

That is the problem with our Metro area owners (see Pollin, Abe; Snyder, Dan): They cling on to those they're loyal to, former players/associates who become front office yesmen, those who were good at something other than assessing talent before accepting that major evaluator role. However, the loyalty--and not the perspicacity, forethought--that is revealed of a non-shrewd enterpreneur of a sports franchise comes back, and bites all of us woebegone fans right in the butt.

Posted by: KJSkinz44 | December 15, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget to re-sign Leigh Torrence.

Posted by: Zornado | December 15, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

DOC just said the offensive line was fine yesterday said the problem is your running the same stuff every week with the same results.

He said someone on Zorn staff needs some guts and go to zorn and try and help him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"I mean, it came down to Phillip Merling, people say that we maybe should have taken," Cerrato said. "He has seven tackles right now for Miami."

Damning. Except it's not even close to accurate.

When Cerrato said this, Merling actually had 23 tackles (17 solo) and a sack, according to NFL.com. For a defensive end who has started just two games, that's actually not too shabby.

By way of comparison, Jason Taylor, who's banking $8 million and cost the team two draft picks, had 22 tackles (15 solo) and 1 sack at the time Cerrato offered this explanation, although Taylor did get three tackles and another half-sack yesterday. Andre Carter, the team's most productive end, had 30 tackles (18 solo) and 3 sacks at the time Cerrato was knocking Merling's production.

"I think Calais has like 11 tackles," Cerrato said last week about another DE possibility. Not so. At the time, Calais Campbell had 19 tackles and a forced fumble. He added four more tackles yesterday, giving him 23 for the season, two fewer than Taylor. His one forced fumble is more than the entire Skins defensive line has contributed.

I'm not saying whom Cerrato should have drafted, and I'm not saying Merling or Campbell are, or will be, stars. But if you're speaking directly to your fans, providing them with "inside information" while justifying your past decisions, and you falsify facts to this incredible a degree....well, even if you don't like drafting according to need, you might want to pick up a fact-checker next season.

Wow, vinny is not only an idiot but he's a liar.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the comments from Steinberg's Bog on Cerrato's drafting strategy:

This drafting strategy is doomed, and it's the reason why Vinny Cerrato is a poor executive at the most fundamental levels.

Tell me Vinny, was Devin Thomas the best player available when he was drafted? Not "was he the highest rated on your board", but was he actually the best player that could have been picked at that spot?

Unequivocally, the answer is no.

That's why you draft for need. You will never find an executive that can guess with 100% accuracy who is the best player available. When you draft for need, your giving your guy the best shot at making an impact on your team. When you draft for "talent", you're gambling that this player's impact will be greater than the weaknesses your team currently has. It is an awful strategy.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

"And when we talk about discipline, it has nothing to do with how long their hair is or how much jewelry they're wearing. It has everything to do with being disciplined about your job - showing up on time, working hard and being accountable."

This is Scott Pioli talking about the strategy he and Belichick use when drafting.

"showing up on time, working hard, and being accountable." Does that sound like any of our 3 2nd rounders.

Um, no.

Vinny Cerrato is the dumbest f'ing guy in America.

Posted by: anonymousinva | December 15, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Re: Haynesworth

Don't know any details, but a video I saw yesterday made it appear that Haynesworth may be damaged goods. His knee buckled under his own weight before another lineman fell onto his hyperextended joint. Would not surprise me at all to see him out for the season.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 15, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Disagree with you. It has been more than playcalling. It has also been:

Game Management. Examples:

a. Never defering until the 2nd Half. Our O has failed misreably with the 1st possesion of the game. Have you noticed how empty the stadium is during the 1st possesion of the 2nd half?

b. Hasn't demostrated he knows what he's doing inside 2 mins of any half.

c. Dosen't know when to and when to not challenge a play on the field.

d. I'm still not sure if he has fully developed ahurry up offense.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 1:00 PM

Hey, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Zorn has sucked so far, and has done things this year that make me question whether he can be HEAD coaching material.

But, once again, if you question the hiring of Zorn, then you have to ask yourself WHO in the hell hired him?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Doc making a great point.....

how can you say that kids who are great athletes and have played for some great programs like USC, Oklahoma, and Michigan State that play big time college football on the biggest stages and suddenly their idiots that are uncoachable? Come on....you can't get them on the field for a season?

couldn't agree more, while I don't go to beantown's length to defend the draft, seems shocking to me that Zorn can't get more out of these guys. Davis looked pretty good on that 15 yard reception Sunday.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Look at it this way ... preseason games for 2009 start early ... like this Sunday. Eight quarters of 1st quarter style preseason football (or an attempted facsimile thereof).

Next season starts right now. I say that the guys who can legitimately be put on IR (I think there are quite a few), do so. Open up the roster spots and start game speed tryouts for guys from other teams practice squads ... I'm thinking LBs, RBs, and WRs.

Also, this summer obviously will involve a punter controvery and probably a kicker controversy. On the punter one, I say they Skins should bring in ... wait for it ... Durant Brooks himself. Both sides of that debacle have an incentive for him to fight back and win the job. In the offseason, he should be getting deep into yoga and meditation so that he develops the muscle memory NOT to take that half step before the punt (the punt killing half step) under pressure.

Also, Morton Andersen.

Posted by: dcsween | December 15, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

The worst think Skins can do is sign Hall. He is a fraud and a bust in the making. Dont get fooled with his int.. He sucks and just waiting to cash in.

Posted by: thewayitis | December 15, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

zj,

DOC said they are red-shirting them so by the time they are seniors they will be older then everyone elses seniors. LOL

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

By the way, how has Greg Williams done this year?

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 15, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 1:14 PM

Completely agree with you on this post Jack. I just don't buy that the Skins drafted the three dumbest pass catchers.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 15, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

... Haynesworth may be damaged goods. His knee buckled under his own weight before another lineman fell onto his hyperextended joint. ...

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 15, 2008 1:12 PM

Residual injury caused by the Gurode Head Polka incident.

Posted by: dcsween | December 15, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins cycle continues. Snyder-Cerratto build a strong team based upon strong talents, and the Skins start the season well. As injuries build, which is part of the game, there is no talent to fill in.

Aside from two years where Gibbs coached them up emotionally to make a December run, the Redskins continue to build a 22-man roster and hope for no injuries.

Foolish.

Posted by: fan4_44yrs | December 15, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Thank you. Revisionist History at it's best. My wife does this to me every other day.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 12:51 PM

Only every other day? Please share your secret for success, 4th!

Posted by: 4-12 | December 15, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

50 weeks ago, this team, with essentially the same guys, were in the playoffs and fans rightly believed they had legit chance at getting to the SB. After all, they had beaten (actually dominated), both of the other NFC East teams in the playoffs.


Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Alright, I'm back on board.

After listening to JZ presser and read Craig2's post, we should give Zorn one more year AND Vinny one more year.

Not much will change as far as personnel next year, but we should atleast be somewhat ounger and more experinced at some positions......

We may have to say F-it and not bring back JT55 unless he comes back starving to fix his legacy..........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

heard that too flounder, it was hilarious. he just said I'd like to take that stupid card out of his hand (Zorn) and rip it up and let JC go with his gut sometimes. haha me too

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else realize that the only players or people that get praise on here are the ones that talk to JLA? Funny huh?

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 15, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

you know what else is funny, Zorn has said all season that all Thomas can do is run go routes, yet he never lets him. Let him run 20 go routes a game, they still have to cover it and it would stretch the defense something we're in desperate need of.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

"After listening to JZ presser and read Craig2's post, we should give Zorn one more year AND Vinny one more year."

Are you out of your f'ing mind.

Zorn...fine.

Vinny...can go f himself, since he's spent a good portion of his career f'ing Redskins fans.

Posted by: anonymousinva | December 15, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

So then the 7-2 record was just.. what?... luck, right?

Had nothing to do with the caoches at all? Some of you are so caught up in "blaming" someone you don't even see the whole picture.

Zorn's play calling has been "iffy" off and on all season, duh!! He's a rookie play caller. Give it time for a change. A lot of Cleveland fans wish they hadn't got into such a clamor to get rid of a certain head coach(ya know, that guy in NE now) when things turned bad many, many years ago, I don't want to be like them.

At least if Snyder gives Zorn/Cerrato at least three years, if they fail, Snyder will have no choice left but to acknowledge that Cerrato can't get it done, and he'll hire a REAL football guy to make it right.

Posted by: craig2 | December 15, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

My wife does this to me every other day.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 12:51 PM

Only every other day? Please share your secret for success, 4th!

Posted by: 4-12 | December 15, 2008 1:20 PM

LOL! Actually it's everyday, but I had a slight fear in my head that she would somehow read this and I'd be in the doghouse for a week, so I put the every other at the last minute........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

wow, Sheeman just made a great point, he said the NFL is designed to ensure that all teams finish around .500 which is all the Skins ever do because for a long long time they have been below average in the personnel evaluation and procurement.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else realize that the only players or people that get praise on here are the ones that talk to JLA? Funny huh?

Posted by: Lacantwrite

How many times do you see direct quotes from Campbell, Betts, Rogers, Fletcher, or Landry? Grasping at straws with this one.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Lisa, and others,

I never said that Moss was a bad move, in fact I am a huge fan of his acquisition, I think that he is the one player on the team who is a game changer. But he was disgruntled in another organization. This trade worked for us. Is it usually a smart move to go around looking for disgruntled players in other organizations and then rewarding them beyond their dreams to come play for us? We become the patsies for all the agents in the league if you think that this is good for the Redskins to follow this system of identifying future players.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

50 weeks ago, this team, with essentially the same guys, were in the playoffs and fans rightly believed they had legit chance at getting to the SB. After all, they had beaten (actually dominated), both of the other NFC East teams in the playoffs.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 1:20 PM |

They were in the playoffs at 9-7 thanks to the fact that the NFC was not that good.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Loves Blache and Zorn. Great interview. Constantly bashes Gibbs, Cerrato and Synder. They don't talk to the media and in Gibbs case called out a premature criticism of Heyer.....anybody see the pattern?

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

can someone with web expertise start up a firecerrato.com website or something similar? I'd get behind it!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Open up the roster spots and start game speed tryouts for guys from other teams practice squads ... I'm thinking LBs, RBs, and WRs.

Also, this summer obviously will involve a punter controvery and probably a kicker controversy. On the punter one, I say they Skins should bring in ... wait for it ... Durant Brooks himself. Both sides of that debacle have an incentive for him to fight back and win the job. In the offseason, he should be getting deep into yoga and meditation so that he develops the muscle memory NOT to take that half step before the punt (the punt killing half step) under pressure.


Posted by: dcsween | December 15, 2008 1:15 P

Both great ideas, IMO. Any idea how the rules work when you sign a practice squad player with two games remaining and having to keep them for 3 (or 4) games on the active roster? Do they stay on next years roster for one or two games?

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

you know what else is funny, Zorn has said all season that all Thomas can do is run go routes, yet he never lets him. Let him run 20 go routes a game, they still have to cover it and it would stretch the defense something we're in desperate need of.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 1:22 PM

And it would help Thomas get into better condition for next year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Second the comment by Riggoisdrunk about how Ted Leonsis rebuilt the Capitals from an aging, underachieviever to a young, strong team that will be good for years to com. Dan Snyder would benefit from having a long lunch with Ted Leonsis on how to run a franchise.

No. 1 - hire a legit GM to run the personnel operations of the team and to hire/fire coaches. Leonsis hired McPhee and has stayed out of the way on personnel moves beyond helping in the re-signing of Ovechkin after learning the hard way with his signing of Jagr and Co.

No. 2 - don't let personal relationships with the players get in the way of sound personnel decisions. McPhee has traded some very popular players (i.e. Bondra) and some fans were very upset, but the team is now better off for it.

No. 3 - stop the self-promoting of your team and indirectly yourself through owning of media outlets such as Redskins radio. Leonsis has steered clear of that and has limited his involvement to answering fan mail.

No. 4 - accept that the team may be in for 2-3 years of rebuilding an aging team to get younger and better (see above.)

Redskins won't be a legitimate contending team until Snyder makes fundamental changes in the management of the team, and that starts with his cutting ties with Vinny.

Posted by: wizfan89 | December 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"couldn't agree more, while I don't go to beantown's length to defend the draft, seems shocking to me that Zorn can't get more out of these guys. Davis looked pretty good on that 15 yard reception Sunday"

Couple things here chief:

1. All I've ever advocated to do is throw them the ball. Not just once, not just twice either. Throw them the ball until the other team has to pay attention to them.

2. Based on what the offense has done recently, which is fail miserably to score points, how can you say this is not a good idea??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

How many times do you see direct quotes from Campbell, Betts, Rogers, Fletcher, or Landry? Grasping at straws with this one.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Direct quotes from an open locker room or media session is a WHOLE lot different than the "Rock Cartright special teams report."

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 15, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

But he was disgruntled in another organization

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 1:25 PM

I believe Coles was the disgruntled player in this transaction. Coles wanted to get out of here and convinced the Jets that bringing him back was a good move because of the rrelationship he and Pennington had. The skins made getting Moss a deal breaker becasue when Moss was in the draft Snyder wanted him, but Marty want Gardner.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Dear Redskins Compatriots

Back when the Redskins were 6 and 2 I changed my handle to 8andeight and said revisit after the season ended – not the postseason.

Well – here I am and I will change my login to sevenandnine.

THE PROBLEM: Bad drafting and signings (Burrell) by Gibbs, Shottenheimer (Spurrier anyone?) and Vinny (2008). Quick fix mentality by Schnyder does not work – Danny boy, go leap on a couch with TC.

Remember the O-lines and D-lines we had in the 80’s and early (91) 90’s???? We stunk since that year!!!

Decent quarterbacks were able to HELP us win super bowls with the assistance of a great O-line and at least one deep threat and a reliable 3rd down guy who was not afraid to go over the middle (he is finally in the Hall of Fame) and a couple of H-backs and/or TEs that helped in every department (blocking, receiving, special teams.)

So now it is time to draft for need. Best athlete available: BS. Problem is, we have now 4 draft choices! Mr Schniderat, put Morroco in charge and stop playing games with Vinny the inept Coward who is not on his show today – again. Thank you.

Posted by: 8andeight | December 15, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

We could have picked up Kris Jenkins (def tackle) who's having a banner year with the jets! Guess Vinnie missed that one?

We need a real GM who can evaluate talent and not someone who kisses Synder's a**!!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

So then the 7-2 record was just.. what?... luck, right?

Had nothing to do with the caoches at all? Some of you are so caught up in "blaming" someone you don't even see the whole picture.

Posted by: craig2

No, the real problem is that Zorn has refused to make adjustments, which is a fundamental and vital aspect to ANY successful coach. And there is no indication whatsoever that he has any intentions of changing that.

I'll be the first to admit that he was great early in the season when teams didn't know what he was about. But that's not what makes a successful coach. It's when teams adjust to you, how do you find a way to counter them again. Just to use a Jim Zorn QB analogy: avoid, reset, throw. Coaching is a chess match. His ability to set his pieces to begin the match are great. His reaction to how his opponent sets up is beyond awful.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

sween,

Check this out. No chance now on Durant Brooks. He signed on Saturday to the Packers' practice squad:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/36149474.html

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

This boils down to 4 things (all obvious and said before):
1. We need a GM (real one with a plan)
2. Danny needs to grow up. This isn't fantasy football. Hand the keys to someone else and enjoy the ride.
3. A coach hired by the new GM who isn't afraid to lose.
4. Players that play the full 60 minutes. Even if they lose it will be better then the 60 minutes of what I had to watch yesterday.

Posted by: jandlml | December 15, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

2. Based on what the offense has done recently, which is fail miserably to score points, how can you say this is not a good idea??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm not, I say start them the rest of the way, let moss play and Kelly, and Thomas, and that's it. And Yoder should be inactive, and Kendal should sit and Rhinehart should play guard the rest of the way. I still don't get why they don't run Thomas deep a bunch it would create some room and a defense still has to cover it, if they hit it just once a game it helps.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Direct quotes from an open locker room or media session is a WHOLE lot different than the "Rock Cartright special teams report."

Posted by: Lacantwrite

Precisely my point. JLC loves all those guys, yet they aren't "talking" to him on a regular basis.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Shottenheimer had a winning record with the skins and he was fired! Another bonehead decision by the boy wonder?

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else realize that the only players or people that get praise on here are the ones that talk to JLA? Funny huh?

Posted by: Lacantwrite

How many times do you see direct quotes from Campbell, Betts, Rogers, Fletcher, or Landry? Grasping at straws with this one.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 1:25 PM

Loves Blache and Zorn. Great interview. Constantly bashes Gibbs, Cerrato and Synder. They don't talk to the media and in Gibbs case called out a premature criticism of Heyer.....anybody see the pattern?

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 15, 2008 1:27 PM

YES, Yes, but we got so much going on today.

We can save that for tommorow and have it spill over through Thursday since they will plenty more post like this.

Also, this has been one of the most self serving post I have seen since before the season started......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Shottenheimer had a winning record with the skins and he was fired! Another bonehead decision by the boy wonder?

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:33 PM |

He was 8-8 just pointing out your mistake, not saying he should have been fired.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

We could have picked up Kris Jenkins (def tackle) who's having a banner year with the jets! Guess Vinnie missed that one?

We need a real GM who can evaluate talent and not someone who kisses Synder's a**!!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:31 PM

Jets run a 3-4 defense.....

Argument is null and void.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Thank you. Revisionist History at it's best. My wife does this to me every other day.......

Posted by: DaReal4th

Our wives must be twins!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 15, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Get rid of the primadonnas (eg portis, moss, etc) and get players who are more team-oriented. Might take longer to rebuild but at least we'll have a stronger foundation for sustained success!

Focus on getting in some playmakers on the dline....all the good teams have a dominant, disruptive defensive line! Skin's dline is mediocre and can't pressure the quarterback! Hence our secondary gets burned and the opposing offenses kicks our a**!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

We could have picked up Kris Jenkins (def tackle) who's having a banner year with the jets! Guess Vinnie missed that one?

We need a real GM who can evaluate talent and not someone who kisses Synder's a**!!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:31 PM

Jets run a 3-4 defense.....

Argument is null and void.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 1:38 PM |

Jenkins played in a 4-3 with Carolina.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Shottenheimer had a winning record with the skins and he was fired! Another bonehead decision by the boy wonder?

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:33 PM

Sorry, but I think that firing Schottenheimer is always a good idea -- and so does everyone he's ever worked for. On the other hand, most of the guys we've hired since we fired him weren't as good as he was.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

No, the real problem is that Zorn has refused to make adjustments, which is a fundamental and vital aspect to ANY successful coach. And there is no indication whatsoever that he has any intentions of changing that.

I'll be the first to admit that he was great early in the season when teams didn't know what he was about. But that's not what makes a successful coach. It's when teams adjust to you, how do you find a way to counter them again. Just to use a Jim Zorn QB analogy: avoid, reset, throw. Coaching is a chess match. His ability to set his pieces to begin the match are great. His reaction to how his opponent sets up is beyond awful.

Posted by: psps23

Your absolutely right, and so your saying that since the rookie coach couldn't figure it out in half a season that he NEVER will?

Cuz, ultimately, that's what has to be decided. As I wrote, both guys need to be given the time to succeed or fail, not just one season to get everybody excited over some success and then depressed when it gets tough.

There isn't a good team in the history of the NFL that got "great" overnight, why would the SKins be any different? We, as fans, can get upset, and ticked off all we want, but the team management needs to keep focused on the future, and not worry as much about how bad it all feels today.

Posted by: craig2 | December 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Our wives must be twins!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 15, 2008 1:38 PM |

Or, to rephrase that, "Our wife must be a bigamist."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

So then the 7-2 record was just.. what?... luck, right?

When were they ever 7-2? They were 6-2 then they lost to Pittsburgh before the bye, making them 6-3. But thats just splitting hairs.

As much as the first half of the season has been great, the second half has been abysmal. That reflects on Zorn just as much if not more.

Teams starting getting the "book" on Zorn after the bye. But he hasn't made any adjustments, or added any new wrinkles, or made position changes when the talent there was clearly tailing off.

Maybe next year, he'll learn from this, and be able to handle not only the game calling, but also the nuances of managing a game and managing the players and their emotions.

Thats the real part of head coaching. Remember that was the part that Norv couldn't(or still can't) pickup.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

beep burp

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

"I still don't get why they don't run Thomas deep a bunch it would create some room and a defense still has to cover it, if they hit it just once a game it helps"

Dude, throw the DANG BALL to Thomas, Kelly, and Davis MORE THAN ONCE A GAME. PERIOD. I don't care what routes they run, just GET THEM INVOLVED.

Desean Jackson is successful as a rookie because PHILLY THROWS HIM THE BALL. Eddie Royal is successful because DENVER THROWS HIM THE BALL.

Its not like if we throw them the ball, it could hurt, I mean, for F***'s sake, I'd hate to score more than 10 F-ING POINTS!!!!!!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Shottenheimer has won wherever he's coached! What more could you want?

Also, Kris Jenkins has been a dominant dlineman for a long time and I always thought that he and cornelius would have been a dominant, disruptive pairing...

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Beep Beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Here is how to fix this mess. The Danny needs to admit his past mistakes, apologize and bring back Charlie Casserly as GM and team him up with Marty. Between those two we will get good talent and restore a little pride and physicality to the team.

Posted by: rjohnson66 | December 15, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

or Bill Cowher (assuming that he'd even consider working for an owner like Synder?).........

Posted by: skinsfan7 | December 15, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"Your absolutely right, and so your saying that since the rookie coach couldn't figure it out in half a season that he NEVER will?

Posted by: craig2

Admitting that he needs to make adjustments is different than actually making adjustments that work. You have to do the first before you can even try the second.

This isn't something that is "learned" overnight, or even in a season or three. Jim Zorn has been a part of professional football for over 30 years. It is his FUNDAMENTAL belief that this system is designed to be perfect -- that if it's performed to perfection, no defense, no blitz, no coverage should be able to stop it. After 30 years of believing this and having it drilled as a part of his ideology, I don't think that's going to change. That's my opinion. He will live and die by this system.

Now, do I know that for a fact? No. But that's the feeling I get.

Now, as far as looking towards the future, that's exactly what needs to be done. That does NOT mean they have to stick with one particular guy simply because "he needs time" to prove himself. He has to earn that privilege. He does not get the benefit of the doubt. Guys like Joe Gibbs, Mike Holmgren, Bill Cowher, Mike Shanahan, those guys get the benefit of the doubt because they're proven winners. First year head coaches need to earn the right to continue running a franchise. I don't hear any apologies coming from Miami for firing Cam Cameron. Meanwhile, I bet there are a lot of guys that wish Cleveland or Detroit hadn't spent so much time letting their coaches "prove" themselves.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Firing JZ after one year is a huge mistake. This was an 8-8 or 7-9 team even if Gibbs came back for another year. There was age/injury concerns on both lines, LB, and CB. Gibbs was smart enough to know this team had gone as far as it could and needed to step aside.

Snyder didn't want to admit the team needed a major rebuilding which is what an experienced coach would have told him (i.e. Mariucci, Fassel). Only a novice w/ no experience like JZ would have taken this team with the same players and no input in personnel. Not to mention that Vinny's track record for drafting is spotty at best. The trade for J. Taylor looks even worse now that we've give up at least a mid-No. 2 draft pick which would have been a building block for next year.

Band-aids like Kendall, Taylor, etc. are a symptom of the inability of this team to build depth. Our talented young FA's like Pierce, Clark, Docker leave to play on better teams. Drafting WR's, QB's, CB's, and Safeties with you high draft picks isn't how you build a team for long-term success. Look at how Dallas, NY, and Philly have drafted over the years.

Today's JZ presser was obviously made after he had been told what he could say by Cerrato and Snyder. His saying it was mostly the coaches fault for the rapid decline was done to deflect attention from the personnel problems and to help save his job. It's probably too late, but I hope he's given a 2nd year.

Posted by: wizfan89 | December 15, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

blow it up


vinney has to go

Stan hixson has to go

most 30 and aboves have to go

Posted by: carl13 | December 15, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

blow it up


vinney has to go

Stan hixson has to go

most 30 and aboves have to go

Posted by: carl13 | December 15, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

diddy, i think i looked into the full page add thing in the paper. it's a LOT of money for one person. we're better off pooling our money. but that requires organization skills. we need a community organizer. we need someone who can get the skins fans across the nation together. we need a hero. WE NEED NATE!!!!!!!!!!!


Start a Facebook profile and we can organize that way

Posted by: Ejayraptor | December 15, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

This team makes me constipated.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop

One stock of dynamite strategically placed will cure that.

Posted by: renaw9 | December 15, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

yeah man

Posted by: jrak1 | December 15, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Agree with most of the comments about the FO - Vinny needs to go. We need someone with a long term plan, commitment, and leadership. Snyder needs to stand back and give this person room to make it happen. As far as players, yes, major overhaul on both lines. Finally, I don't think the Skins will make it out of mediocrity with Jason Campbell at the helm. Holds the ball too long and has a slow, telegraphed, release. Consequently, too many balls tipped at the line of scrimmage. Since we all agree there's a need to revamp, let's get Colt in there.

Posted by: bones21 | December 15, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

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