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Guest Blog - JC and His Peers

Got this email from John Little, and I thought it was perfect for the blog, so I'm going to share it with everyone. John writes:

"Jason,

I posted this on a message board, but I am interested in your take (and/or the take of some of your NFL peeps) on the state of young QBs today.

I heard someone (Schefter maybe?) talking about the number of young QBs in the NFL these days and it got me to thinking where Skins fans think Jason Campbell ranks in the fray. ... There's been so much rush to crucify Campbell and [with the] 'he should know better by now' sentiment, I wonder if his peers bear that out.

So using the criteria of being drafted in the first three rounds (and other notables) of the past four years, where does JC fall in the hierarchy?

2005-
1st Round:
Alex Smith-Backup SF
Aaron Rogers-Starter GB
Jason Campbell-Starter Washington

3rd Round:
Charlie Frye-Backup Seattle
Andrew Walter-Backup (?) Oakland
David Greene-Out of the league

Other Notables:
Kyle Orton (5th round)-Starter Chicago
Derek Anderson (6th round by Balt.)-Starter Cleveland
Matt Cassel (6th round)-Starter NE

2006-
1st Round:
Vince Young-Starter TN
Matt Leinart-Backup Arizona
Jay Cutler-Starter Denver

2nd Round:
Kellen Clemens-Backup NYJ
Tavares Jackson-Starter Minn

3rd Round:
Charlie Whitehurst-Backup SD
Brodie Croyle-Starter KC

2007-
1st Round:
Jamarcus Russell-Starter Oakland
Brady Quinn-Backup Cleveland

2nd Round:
John Beck-Backup Miami
Drew Stanton-Backup Detroit

3rd Round:
Trent Edwards-Starter Buffalo

Other notables:
Troy Smith (5th round)-Backup Baltimore

2008- 1st round only
1st Round:
Matt Ryan-Starter Atlanta
Joe Flacco-Starter Baltimore

So of all of Campbell's peers (12 starters-12 backups or out of the league) I can only identify two QBs - Cutler and Anderson - that I would prefer over Campbell. Is there anyone else from this list that you think is better than Campbell at this point in their careers?"

Well, John's research ended here, so I figure my opinion should start here as well. I actually would take Cutler over JC. now perhaps, but even then it's a stacked deck. Cutler has been behind an elite offensive line with a strong running game, and has also been with one QB guru/type the entire time, just one primary voice - Mike Shanahan.

Meantime, the Redskins may have put Jason in a position to fail through the entire process, from one leader to the next, one system to the next, etc., still without ever getting any sort of proven big target receiver for the 6-5 kid to connect with.

As for the rest of the QB bunch, I beleive JC has as much talent than everyone else, and actually more, but it remains to be seen if the Redskins will be able to get that from him. It's been a long, long time since a young QB had any sort of success here, and I don't think that's a fluke or accident. It takes a village to raise a young QB, and the process has been flawed for quite some time with the revolving door at QB, OC and HC.

By Jason La Canfora  |  September 10, 2008; 8:25 AM ET
 
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Next: Colston to Miss Skins Game

Comments

Of course JLC would take Cutler over JC...

Posted by: Chris | September 10, 2008 8:32 AM | Report abuse

glug . . . glug . . . glug . . .glug . . .

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

I believe that JC has elite talent from the tip of his right shoulder to the little bone that sticks out on the outside of your wrist.
He also has elite hamstrings.
And an elite big toe. (Won't tell you which one.)

Posted by: cload & daggar | September 10, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Anyone catch the Raiders game the other night?? How did Jamarcus look??

Posted by: Greg | September 10, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

We need to take it easy, JC will be fine.I think folks are getting carried away.It will take a couple of games to get this thing off the ground.I would be surprised if the skins did'nt win at least 8 games.

Posted by: TB20 | September 10, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

The rational thinking fans already know JC isn't nearly as bad as some here ("Sports Guru") think. And I would dare say that if you put JC in Denver, he's pretty damn good by now. But hopefully we'll get some stability and create an atmosphere for JC to climb that list.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 10, 2008 8:43 AM | Report abuse

brown, agreed. Stability, as well as some consistancy would do him some good...

Posted by: Greg | September 10, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

I predict a win this week. Dont ask me why, I just do.

I dont think this team is as bad as it seems, and I think they will adjust.

Defense will force the inside run and hope their speed and tackling keep Duece from breaking any big ones.

Offense should establish the run and get the D to commit to the run. Then we go over the top. keep the ball out of their offenses hands.

Player of the game - CP

17-14 skins.

Posted by: Zebra | September 10, 2008 8:27 AM

Posted by: Zebra | September 10, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Brown,

I hope that as well, if they would keep this staff together for 5-10 years and bring in young talent, I think they can get back to playoff contender every year.

Is Vinny the man to bring in that young talent time will tell.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Watching the CHI game Sunday night, Orton didn't appear to have that "lost" look in his eyes that JC always seems to. He actually appeared to control the huddle and the team.

Posted by: NCICURN | September 10, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Sports Guru = 1st-rate moron

My dog, Spot, knows more about football than the self-proclaimed Guru.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Buges can piss in JC's cheerios too....

I like Heyer, but doggone it, that guy needs to get a mean streak. Remember when Jansen would routinely be following a play, and would peel a guy off of a pile, just as the whistle blew....Heyer needs to start being like that.

Posted by: Greg | September 10, 2008 8:54 AM | Report abuse

I might put Trent Edwards on that short list.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 8:54 AM | Report abuse

brown,

I'm not a #8 hater, he just never played well in Fed-Ex. I'll always remember the two bombs to Santana, but will also rembember see him a number of times rolling right - even though he's lefthanded - and then step out of bounds to stop the clock and avoid the sack instead of chucking the ball in the ground. I would scream, "you're outside the tackle box just get it close to the effing line of scrimage! Don't lose yards! You're a veteran qb!"

Every week, I still stood by him because he didn't turn the ball over and was better than our other options to get to the playoffs. If London Fletcher would have come a year earlier than the defense might have held some of the leads we lost in 2006. I don't blame 2006 on him but the d.

Posted by: bangkokben | September 10, 2008 8:39 AM

Posted by: bangkokben | September 10, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Watching the CHI game Sunday night, Orton didn't appear to have that "lost" look in his eyes that JC always seems to. He actually appeared to control the huddle and the team.

Posted by: NCICURN | September 10, 2008 8:51 AM

It helps when your running back is seeing daylight and your defense is playing lights out.

Posted by: bangkokben | September 10, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Sure, after a couple of years of Rex Grossman running the show, even Kyle Orton will start to look like Joe Montana.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

If we are in need of a big WR we should prolly call up Michael Westbrook, we can watch him get angry and pin Double Move to the floor and turn his face into flank steak.

Posted by: bangkok palace | September 10, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

The only person on that list that is better than JC right now is Jay Cutler. That's it. Derek Anderson is the most overblown QB I've seen in a LONG time, and he's only viewed as a "savior" because he was playing in Cleveland. He's about as much of a savior as Jon Kitna is for Detroit (who I would say Anderson is very comparable to). I would take neither over JC.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

I might put Trent Edwards on that short list.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 8:54 AM


What a foolish comment.....aren't you the dude that keeps posting dumb sh*# all the time too ? Man get lost.

Posted by: Slippery Richard | September 10, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Hey, that's not funny.

Posted by: Stephen Davis | September 10, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Brown,

I hope that as well, if they would keep this staff together for 5-10 years and bring in young talent, I think they can get back to playoff contender every year.

Is Vinny the man to bring in that young talent time will tell.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 8:49 AM

You gotta make sure Zorn is the right guy first.

I would have no problem if it was Schottenheimer that got 5 yrs or so of the same system. Or Gibbs with 5 yrs w/o changing midstream. But Zorn is a complete unknown. He needs to prove he deserves 5 years first.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

At this point Cutler of JC is a no brainer and I'd say Rogers first start was better than any game JC has played statistically at least. I could be wrong that is just a guess but if it wouldn't beat JC's best game It would definitely be top 3.

I don't really care though, only one plays in DC.

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

What a foolish comment.....aren't you the dude that keeps posting dumb sh*# all the time too ? Man get lost.

Posted by: Slippery Richard | September 10, 2008 9:07 AM

And you're the person that posts nothing but personal criticism, choke.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

These guys need to stop forcing Campbell to (further) humiliate himself; this kid does not have what it takes to be a starting QB; it's obvious that even he knows that, but he's trapped (unless he has the guts to just walk away). Please stop sticking the damn microphone in his face -- it's embarrassing and painful to watch. He stinks, but I'm pretty certain he showed up on Draft day expecting to be a 2nd / 3rd rounder at best; what would you do if you came to interview for a job as a mailroom tech, and they offered you the gig as facilities manager? I'll bet that more than 75% of you would take the damn job!! That's human nature, (Jason expected to be drafted as a backup ala Todd 'clipboard' Collins, and ended up being thrust into a position that he was unprepared and ill equipped for). God help the 'Skins.

Posted by: Guisher | September 10, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Anyone catch the Raiders game the other night?? How did Jamarcus look??

Posted by: Greg | September 10, 2008 8:39 AM

His receivers couldn't catch to save their lives. He looked mediocre.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

I think JC's game against Detroit last year was better.

Posted by: bangkokben | September 10, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

The only person on that list that is better than JC right now is Jay Cutler. That's it. Derek Anderson is the most overblown QB I've seen in a LONG time, and he's only viewed as a "savior" because he was playing in Cleveland. He's about as much of a savior as Jon Kitna is for Detroit (who I would say Anderson is very comparable to). I would take neither over JC.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 9:06 AM

Derek Anderson ain't all that. He's got some real talent on the offense to help him out. He still makes some pretty bad decisions.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

IT'S ALL THE FRONT OFFICE'S FAULT!?!?!?....That's what I really wanted to say here, but I had to dress it up in "quaterback development" garb so that it looks like I'm saying different stuff every time.

Posted by: JLa | September 10, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

I would have no problem if it was Schottenheimer that got 5 yrs or so of the same system. Or Gibbs with 5 yrs w/o changing midstream. But Zorn is a complete unknown. He needs to prove he deserves 5 years first.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 9:10 AM

You are not going to know if he is the right guy unless you give him the 5yrs atleast. If you change coaches again then you have to start all over. I thought you were one of the ones that wanted the FO to stop changing every year.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

And the 2004 draft included Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger and JP Losman in the 1st round (with the next QB drafted in round 4).

These lists highlight the importance of letting a QB learn and mature within one offensive system. What other QB drafted from 04 on has been jerked around from one system to another like Campbell?

Campbell needs at least a 2nd year in Zorn's offense before we can adequately judge his abilities as an NFL QB. All this "Campbell needs to prove himself this year" talk (Wise, Wilbon, a number of people on this forum) is crap.

Posted by: Johnnie Futbol | September 10, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/09/10/6097/

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 9:28 AM

LMAO

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Here is some criticism,

Campbell is a much better QB than Edwards when you put aside the differences of outside factors or include them too ! ( new systems, HC , etc. ) he had some really good games last year and would have been better this year if in the same offense (most of us know that). If Zorn bends a little as mentioned yesterday and throws a couple of shotguns in there, it will stand to benefit Campbell very much. Going under center 98% of the time is not synonomous with the WC offense as was alluded to yesterday with examples being given in Philly and a select few other teams. This kid will blossom into something better than what we saw last Thursday despite all of the outside factors that are working against him that I mentioned in the beginning. As for that clown scampbell1975 maybe he forgot that Edwards despite having to play the Pats twice gets to play the Jets and Dolphins 4 times a year. While Campbell will have the Cowboys, Giants & Eagles to look forward to. T. Edwards would fall apart in the NFC East and would have never posted a higher QB rating than Campbell did last year. Heck he couldn't even do it in a weaker division last year and Campbell only had slighlty more experience in the same system last year that Edwards did.

Posted by: Slippery Richard | September 10, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

j-futbol, great point. He needs this year to acclimate himself to this system, the offseason to completely IMMERSE himself in it, and know it inside and out, and hopefully by the time next year rolls around, this is second nature to him.

Posted by: Greg | September 10, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Good Point Futbol


Look, JLC is not saying slander here. This is the TRUTH.

3 Coordinators in 4 years for JC. No, No QB can really be expected to be successful.

Would we like him to be, yes. But the fact he isnt doesnt mean he is horrible. It means 'he is who we thought he was', a normal average QB at this point. he does have potential. But that potential has been stunted.

Only true superstars could overcome this type of instability. I have no expectation that JC will ever be a HOF QB. But you dont need one to win the SB.

Posted by: Zebra | September 10, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Why can't we all just agree to give JC this year as the starter no matter what. If he does not show improvement then make next summer an open competition at qb. Then if JC wins the job we all need to stop b!cthing and realize that he is our best qb.

Posted by: NFeKPo | September 10, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Here's an update on the Collier case:

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/091008/met_330443245.shtml

Skins have open locker room at noon, so we'll have some updates for you then. And they practice from 1:20-3:15.

Posted by: Cindy | September 10, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Showing that if you rush to judgement on a coach you can screw yourself.

Reid had never been a cordinator in the league, and never called plays.


From Wiki.
The quality of Reid's work with the Packers attracted considerable notice throughout the league, leading to his being hired as the head coach of the Eagles on January 11, 1999. At the time, many in the local media in Philadelphia criticized the hiring, citing the availability of other candidates who had past records of success as head coaches. The Eagles, under former coach Ray Rhodes, finished in a three-way tie for the NFL's worst record at 3-13 the season before he took over. They improved two games in 1999 to finish at 5-11

What if Phillys owner said he is not the right guy for the job because he only won 5 games, he would have looked like an a$$ considering they have become a very good team.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Actually, I tend to agree with NFeKPo. Given that Campbell was a high draft pick, you have to give him the season. I have concerns whether he can get it done, but I think you do have to give him the season.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, that was moi at 9:37.

Posted by: Cindy | September 10, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

That's good slippy dick, a real post. First off, the 2 are pretty close, that's why I said "might." The difference, as I see it, is that Edwards looks confident when he plays, JC, not so much. I've been a Campbell backer and I'm not one of the ones calling for his head. I think he and Zorn need time to keep one system in place. I think JC will be okay, his development has been hampered by the pinball machine of his career. Yes, we have a much tougher division, but Campbell didn't play Dallas and the Giants twice last year as you claim. I'm just saying that I might put Edwards on that list, but I would probably pull Anderson off of it.

Having said that. the Bills played inferior competition last year. They lost to Dallas in that nail biter and beat us while we were clearly hurting.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Campbell might have been a decent QB in a system that suited him. He's ruined now though. No confidence, no command, no swagger. Colt looks more like a starting QB. There's no way Danny will sit still through a couple of 4-12 seasons and let Zorn grow into the job.

At least the FO has been turned around. Those draft picks are really helping out, and that Jason Taylor deal was pure genius.

Posted by: AAA | September 10, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

AAA;

I will agree we may have been hasty with JT.

If we had no pass rush DE on the other side, and Daniels was that player, it would make sense to pick up JT.

But since we seemed set with PD as the run stopping end, why was his injury the impetus to get another DE who could pass rush. Why not draft that guy with one of those 3 2nd round picks.

At least Vinny has to stand by these decisions. Although it may be all for naught if DS doesnt carry a big stick as it were.

Posted by: Zebra | September 10, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

What if Phillys owner said he is not the right guy for the job because he only won 5 games, he would have looked like an a$$ considering they have become a very good team.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 9:35 AM

The difference is Philly was 3-13 before he took over. Reid improved them to 5-11. They were AWFUL when he took over.

Zorn is taking over a 9-7 playoff team that made the postseason without their starting QB, RG, RT, OLD, CB, and FS, returned 20 out of 22 starters, lost 1 guy to free agency (Godfrey), added pro bowler Jason Taylor, and added 10 draft picks. Zorn has a much shorter leash. He has proven nothing. He needs to prove that he deserves to be given time. For all we know, he's the next Steve Spurrier.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Someone was asking about NO injuries on the last thread. Here's the injury report as of today:

09/09/2008 Antwan Lake Day-to-Day Groin
09/05/2008 Deuce McAllister Questionable Knee
09/05/2008 Troy Evans Questionable Ankle
09/05/2008 Mike McKenzie Questionable Knee
09/05/2008 Aaron Stecker Questionable Hamstring
09/05/2008 Hollis Thomas Out Triceps
09/05/2008 Brian Young Questionable Foot
09/05/2008 Mark Simoneau Questionable Back

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

There is no question that JC gets the season. Regardless of your thoughts on his ability any Redskin fan has to know that this franchise is in exponentially better shape if he turns out to be a better-than-servicable qb.

Him being a good qb (I'd settle for Trent Greenish type we aint talkin BBM here) would be wish number two on my redskins genie wish list. Right after Danny selling the team and right before...well I'll just say that it involves cheerleaders.

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Wow Skinz was actually funny, who knew?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else see that McMullen signed with Seattle?

I hope he does well. He worked really hard here and I still think he should have been given a roster spot.

I bet Vinny is crossing his fingers that he flops. Two West Coast offenses, I bet he fits right in.

Posted by: Devo | September 10, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Zebra,

I think as you say Vinny will take all the heat for his actions, there is no one else to share blame. I do not think Snyder will play favorites if Vinny does not get the job done. You do not aquire a NFL team at his young age, or the other buisness success he has had, by not being cutthroat and holding people responsible.

If Vinny does a horrible job and Snyder keeps him anyway, then Snyder wants the power and should say like Jerry Jones, I am GM and president and I will do what ever I want with this team. Atleast then we would know what we are in for.

The difference is Jerry had some Football background and I think he learned alot about player evaluation from Jimmy Johnson and Parcells.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Zorn is taking over a 9-7 playoff team that made the postseason without their starting QB, RG, RT, OLD, CB, and FS, returned 20 out of 22 starters, lost 1 guy to free agency (Godfrey), added pro bowler Jason Taylor, and added 10 draft picks. Zorn has a much shorter leash. He has proven nothing. He needs to prove that he deserves to be given time. For all we know, he's the next Steve Spurrier.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 9:48 AM

All that is great but if you judge Zorn on his first year or second and decide to get rid of him then you are just as bad as Snyder. Things take time to develop, this year they will be getting used to the offense they definatley should improve next year, but if they do not make the playoffs you sound like you would fire Zorn and start all over I do not agree with that.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

I think JC is the most physically gifted QB of that list. He's big, mobile, and has a great arm. I also think he is a great guy. Now that said, I think he's a little "too nice" he doesn't seem to be in command of the team, he doesn't get on his guys when they make stupid mistakes, somebody should have been all over ARE for two false starts.....TWO...FROM A WR....JC just seems to me that he is too amiable and just is lacking that killer instinct/super competitive attitude that the great ones have.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 10, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

I bet Vinny is crossing his fingers that he flops. Two West Coast offenses, I bet he fits right in.

Posted by: Devo | September 10, 2008 9:57 AM

As I said last night, Zorn will have to take some of the criticism for the cut as well. He has claimed that he had final say in these cuts. Whether it's true or not doesn't really matter, it is what Zorn has said.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Leading Saints WR Marques Colston out for 4-6 weeks after surgery to repair torn ligament (tendon?) in his thumb. Darn darn double darn (for them, not us).

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

PSP and Flounder,

That is really my issue with the whole Zorn for HC thing. You could have hired him as OC and gotten someone to "fill-in" for HC. (read Grilliams)

If Zorn is a genius then you can always promote him or pay him like a HC. If he's a bust then the transition isn't all that bad.

Look at Jerruh Jones in Dallas. I mean apart from the make-up and plastic surgery he's a better owner than Danny hands down. He's thinking two steps ahead.

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

zj,

Agree can you imagine what Brady or Manning would have said to ARE. You need a certain personality to play QB in the NFL and JC does not have it yet. Men follow leadership and if JC can not show that leadership then he will not get the respect of the team. He needs to take over the offense and make guys accountable the problem is he has not shown any signs that he can do that. I have never seen him get heated at another player.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Ya'll stupid, seriously the Skins' suck. Zorn is in over his head and is overmatched. Jason Campbell is a bum, no head on his shoulders. The front office stinks, Dan Snyder and his puppet Vinny have no clue what they are doing.
Who spends 3 second round picks on receivers and expects them to contribue? We could have drafted one receiver and used the other two picks for positions that would help us, maybe upgrade our old and slow offensive line.
I have been a Skins' fan all my lift but I cant be any more, I give up. Dan Snyder has ruined this team. We might as well call them the Washington Raiders because they are just as bad. The worst curse a franchise can have is not injuries it is bad ownership.
The Redskins will NEVER EVER win anything again until Dan Snyder either sells the team or comes to his senses, steps away and hands the team over to a real GM.
Dan Snyder = WORST OWNER EVEN, DUMB, DUMB, DUMB.
Posted by: Dalolokins SE | September 9, 2008 4:25 PM

My interweb at work won't let me into the Wiki site any more.....can someone put this guy in there in the doomsayers section?

Posted by: dlhaze | September 10, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Skinz,

The problem with what you say is that did not happen, I am talking reality and since he is the coach they have to give him time to develop, otherwise you might as well change coaches every two years and suck for all time.

I agree with you that Jones is a better owner then Snyder, although that face scares me.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Sween where are you reading that about Colston?

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Zorn is taking over a 9-7 playoff team that made the postseason without their starting QB, RG, RT, OLD, CB, and FS, returned 20 out of 22 starters, lost 1 guy to free agency (Godfrey), added pro bowler Jason Taylor, and added 10 draft picks. Zorn has a much shorter leash. He has proven nothing. He needs to prove that he deserves to be given time. For all we know, he's the next Steve Spurrier.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 9:48 AM

All that is great but if you judge Zorn on his first year or second and decide to get rid of him then you are just as bad as Snyder. Things take time to develop, this year they will be getting used to the offense they definatley should improve next year, but if they do not make the playoffs you sound like you would fire Zorn and start all over I do not agree with that.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:03 AM

He also inherits a team that is a year older everywhere, and he lost a run stopping end in the NFC and replaced him with a pass rusher so that both edges are weak against the run now, his DT's are mediocre, his LB's are thin and other than Fletcher haven't played to their ability in a while, his corners are injury prone and outside of Springs are average, his safety outside of Landry are weak, his oline hasn't played to their reputation in a long long time and he had to replace his 7 million dollar RT with a undrafted FA, his RB is a prima dona who blocks harder than he runs, his wrs are midgets and his #1 quits on routes too early too often and drops key plays often, and his pro bowl TE doesn't block very well. Oh yeah, and his young QB might not fit his system and is far from a proven commodity. I think Zorn deserves some time to work on things in his system and I think Vinny finally has to know that he has to rebuild his lines after this year, I think they thought once Jansen and Thomas were back everything would be fine, but Jansen got benched cause he's done and the rest of the line is underachieving, I think as long as Snyder is what he says he is now, both Zorn and Vinny get this year and next offseason, then if the team isn't .500 or better next year one or both is gone. The only guy I think has an issue is JC, he's in his 4th year, he looked terrible week one, its a contract year so they have to make some decisions so if he continues to look terrible then I think mid-year he gets the hook.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Agreed Flounder, unless he is an abject failure as a leader then he should stay on for some time.

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Saints lose Colston to thumb injury

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8545384

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Wow Z, I'm really depressed now. I don't think I can continue reading posts today.

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Sween

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Sween where are you reading that about Colston?

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 10:13 AM

I think we're being victimized by the phantom poster.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I stand corrected. Don't like to see injuries but good news for us.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Meantime, the Redskins may have put Jason in a position to fail through the entire process, from one leader to the next, one system to the next, etc., still without ever getting any sort of proven big target receiver for the 6-5 kid to connect with.

By Jason La Canfora | September 10, 2008; 8:25 AM ET

So, once again, it's "the Redskins fault." Actually, it's Joe Gibbs' fault. He drafted Campbell and gave up a lot to do it. He was in charge of personnel and didn't get Campbell "any sort of proven big target receiver." Instead he got ARE and Brandon Lloyd. He changed offensive coordinators to Al Saunders. And then he quit.

Cerrato tried to trade for Chad Johnson. When that failed he did the next best -- drafted not one but two "big target receivers for the 6-5 kid to connect with." And he got a new, young coach who is known for developing QBs.

So, this mess was a Joe Gibbs creation and the dude quit and walked away leaving management to clean it up for him.

Posted by: I am probably an idiot but what do you think? | September 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Takes too long to get caught up on this board lately....

What do you all think of the Monday night game this wee (Dallas vs Philly)? For me it's not who I want to win more, but who I want to lose more, but I still can't make my mind up. If Dallas wins, the national media slurp fest will just get worse, but I live by Philly, so if the Eagles win it's all I will hear about at work and on tv/radio around here. I guess the best case (IMO) would be for Philly to win the game, like three to zip, so Dallas would go down, and the Eagles offense would have come crashing back to earth, and the Iggles fans would probably start calling for Mcnabb's head despite the win.

Oh, yeah, and lot's of injuries. Should be a pretty good game though.

Posted by: dlhaze | September 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Colston being out is a HUGE break for the Redskins.

They need to show up bringing thier A-Game.

Posted by: Greg | September 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Skinz, pay no attention to the glass definitely half empty talk. The margin between worst and first remains razor thin, separated primarily by injuries and bad officiating.

This past week, we were one short lapse of concentration by Santana Moss (on what otherwise would have been one long TD pass) from defeating the defending Super Bowl champs at home.

Never surrender ... Ask not what you can do ... The only thing we have to fear ... maps ... such as ...

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Umm ... ask not what your country can do for you ... but otherwise, mostly what I said ...

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

That was my motivational talk. I start out OK, but I leave the glory finale part to the glorified speaker crowd.

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

"All that is great but if you judge Zorn on his first year or second and decide to get rid of him then you are just as bad as Snyder. Things take time to develop, this year they will be getting used to the offense they definatley should improve next year, but if they do not make the playoffs you sound like you would fire Zorn and start all over I do not agree with that."


You must not understand that in two or three years, a lot of our best players will be slowing down. We are NOT a young team by any means, we're actually pretty old. We're either a win now team or a rebuilding team, nothing in the middle. If we're rebuilding, we need to move some of these pieces that won't be here in three years....

Posted by: The Truth | September 10, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Leading Saints WR Marques Colston out for 4-6 weeks after surgery to repair torn ligament (tendon?) in his thumb. Darn darn double darn (for them, not us).

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:06 AM

The only way this could be better news for us is if they transplanted the torn ligament into Reggie Bush's hand. They could do that in New Orleans, couldn't they?

Posted by: Mull It | September 10, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

All that is great but if you judge Zorn on his first year or second and decide to get rid of him then you are just as bad as Snyder. Things take time to develop, this year they will be getting used to the offense they definatley should improve next year, but if they do not make the playoffs you sound like you would fire Zorn and start all over I do not agree with that.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:03 AM

No, it's not necessarily about making the playoffs. The team looked horrible last Thursday. Horrible. Disorganized, complacent, and uninspired. All of that comes from the head coach, and should be independent of the offensive system that is being taught. Those are things that should be instilled instantly within the team. That is a massive failure on Zorn's part in the first game of the season.

Now if Zorn improves throughout the season, and the team returns to its high passion intensity that's defined us for the last four years, then he gets a little more wiggle room. If JC continues to improve, then Zorn gets more wiggle room. If the offensive scheme becomes more efficient week after week, then Zorn gets more wiggle room.

I do NOT trust this front office when they bring a guy from out of nowhere - that never had any interest anywhere else, that had no coordinating experience, and no head coaching experience - and tell us that "we found the right guy". I simply don't trust the FO with that. Therefore, I feel like Zorn needs to prove himself worthy of getting extra time with this team. IMO he's got one year to show the things above, and then he can get more time.

And for the record, I like Zorn and truly hope that he does work out. But I'm not ready to anoint him the next Bill Cowher, Mike Shanahan, Bill Belichick, or Andy Reid just yet.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell needs a confidence builder and a security blanket, we are asking him to win after another year of changes to the offensive philosophy of this team, time and again he has had to reinvent himself for the sake of the next offensive genuis/guru but we expect him to be great,how may i ask are you supposed to develop consistency with all that crap floating around in your head.I for one admire the young man despite all the critics(especially some of the people on this blog!!) he has remained cool and collected with the media, and now he has a head coach with little or no experience and we are ready to throw him under the bus after one game a contest where the coach was clearly overmatched.If Zorn is "smart" he'll allow Sherman Smith to work with Jason and see what the results are from there.

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | September 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 10:07 AM

I agree. That would have seemed logical. But then again, you never know, Zorn could be the next prodigy at HC. Danny was swinging for the fences with this one.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

What do you all think of the Monday night game this wee (Dallas vs Philly)? For me it's not who I want to win more, but who I want to lose more, but I still can't make my mind up.

Posted by: dlhaze | September 10, 2008 10:19 AM

Bottom line: It's not who wins or loses but how many leave the game with season ending injuries...

Posted by: motivator | September 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Anyone catch the Raiders game the other night?? How did Jamarcus look??

Posted by: Greg | September 10, 2008 8:39 AM

looked like Jason Campbell ...he sucked too.

Posted by: Skinsfan | September 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

And for the record, I like Zorn and truly hope that he does work out. But I'm not ready to anoint him the next Bill Cowher, Mike Shanahan, Bill Belichick, or Andy Reid just yet.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 10:25 AM

Man! This is the type of insightful knowledge that I can only get on Redskins Insider. Thanks, psps, for laying this out so clearly.

Posted by: d-bag | September 10, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Sween, nice speech. Put me in coach.


I agree about the injuries but not the margin. This team does not have the look of a contender and at least two teams in our division are.

Posted by: Skinz | September 10, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

It never ceases to amaze me on here that you guys want to crucify the coach after his first game ever (I seem to remember Gibbs 1.0 started a little shaky) but you continue to coddle and make excuses for the QB in his 4th season. I don't get it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 10, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Skinz, there is another factor that determines the margin, but I didn't want to use the term for fear of evoking the ghost of Norv Turner. I'll give you a hint ... two words ... first one starts with "bi-" ... and the second one ends with "-lays".

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

ESPN is reporting that Marques Colston just had surgery on his finger and will miss 4-6 weeks. Big break for our D!

Is it me or is Colston just a bit fragile? He's been hurt in each of his first 3 seasons.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Now if Zorn improves throughout the season, and the team returns to its high passion intensity that's defined us for the last four years, then he gets a little more wiggle room. If JC continues to improve, then Zorn gets more wiggle room. If the offensive scheme becomes more efficient week after week, then Zorn gets more wiggle room.

I have no idea of were you get this team played with passion and intensity over the last four years, they did in some games sure. But I saw alot of games were the were mentally not prepared to play, they jumped offsides all the time they got out hustled on several occasions. If they were playing with passion as you say then why could we never pick up 1 yrd, I do not think you could count the amount of times we did not convert on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1. I will not get into the debate we had yesterday about pro players needing a coach to get them up for games. If you listen to any of the former Redskins that are still in the area they blamed last weeks performance on the players, said it was a joke they they did not get themselves up for the defending Champs and division rival.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

And let me go on record as saying some of you are pitiful people to wish injuries of any kind on anyone, let alone season ending.

If our Redskins we cheer for can turn around immediately after the game and shake hands and talk to the Cowboys, Giants, Philly, etc. players, what the hell kinda right do we have to think we can wish something like this on those same players?


This is a problem that I see a lot in the NFC East, and it doesn't make yall "hardcore fans", it makes you look like pitiful human beings.

Posted by: The Truth | September 10, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

brownwood, you might find talking about that type of data a little lonely ... this morning peeps are cursing the darkness rather than lighting candles.

Re: fragility, I thought Colston was about average for a WR -- the NFL position equivalent of a thoroughbred horse. The Saints former first round WR pick, Meachem, is the one who has always been injured.

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Zebra | September 10, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

This is a problem that I see a lot in the NFC East, and it doesn't make yall "hardcore fans", it makes you look like pitiful human beings.

Posted by: The Truth | September 10, 2008 10:40 AM

C'mon Truth! Say it like you mean it! Call us Georgia Tech fans!

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

I never want a win because the other team's players are hurt. Injuries are a factor in this league, and there is no way around it, but I'm not hoping anybody gets hurt ever, if we can't beat them at their best we don't deserve the W, but the fact is, our guys get hurt too, so that is the nature of the league, but you shouldn't hope people get injured, you should hope everybody on our team and anybody else's stay healthy and its best on best.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 10, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

You must not understand that in two or three years, a lot of our best players will be slowing down. We are NOT a young team by any means, we're actually pretty old. We're either a win now team or a rebuilding team, nothing in the middle. If we're rebuilding, we need to move some of these pieces that won't be here in three years....

Posted by: The Truth | September 10, 2008 10:25 AM

I am saying we are pretty much a rebuilding team hopefully Vinny can get younger on both lines in the next draft, and we weed out more of the old guys. Keep Zorn and his staff together and in 3-4 years this could be a quality team for a long time.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

actually sween that seems to be a strictly a yankee thing...

Posted by: The Truth | September 10, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Oh, yeah, and lot's of injuries. Should be a pretty good game though.

Posted by: dlhaze | September 10, 2008 10:19 AM

Dude(s) I was kidding.......so was motivator I would think. Lighten up.

Posted by: dlhaze | September 10, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

I never want a win because the other team's players are hurt. Injuries are a factor in this league, and there is no way around it, but I'm not hoping anybody gets hurt ever, if we can't beat them at their best we don't deserve the W, but the fact is, our guys get hurt too, so that is the nature of the league, but you shouldn't hope people get injured, you should hope everybody on our team and anybody else's stay healthy and its best on best.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 10, 2008 10:43 AM

Flag on the play zjfr2....

Flag on the play...

Posted by: Zebra | September 10, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

"I am saying we are pretty much a rebuilding team hopefully Vinny can get younger on both lines in the next draft, and we weed out more of the old guys. Keep Zorn and his staff together and in 3-4 years this could be a quality team for a long time.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:45 AM "

so who is gonna be our RB in 3-4 years?

Posted by: The Truth | September 10, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Marques Colston is out for the Saints.

Posted by: Injury update | September 10, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

"Dude(s) I was kidding.......so was motivator I would think. Lighten up.

Posted by: dlhaze | September 10, 2008 10:47 AM"

well it's all over the NFL and specifically NFC East. That's fact.

Posted by: The Truth | September 10, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Vinny can get younger on both lines in the next draft

Agreed, and I think the wheels are already in motion on the OL at least.

Kendal will be gone after this year, replaced by Rhino, who is younger/bigger

Heyer, who is younger/bigger has already replaced Jansen

Draft a g/t, and groom them to replace Thomas/Rabach in the next year.

Posted by: Greg | September 10, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

As I said last night, Zorn will have to take some of the criticism for the cut as well. He has claimed that he had final say in these cuts. Whether it's true or not doesn't really matter, it is what Zorn has said.


Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 10, 2008 10:05 AM

Somehow I don't feel that was totally Zorn’s decision. That FO is pulling the strings on this one, for better or worse they’re making the calls.

In a sick and twisted world with limitless and tangent dimensions, maybe their decision making process has been in the teams long term interest.

Typically skill positions take longer to develop than OL and DL. Plus QB's need time to work with their WR's to build timing and trust in a complex NFL system.

With this in mind, they might have selected the skill positions in this draft, let Campbell and Zorn grow some together, then stock up on linemen and backers in next years draft.

The only problem with that logic is, Vinny traded our 2nd rounder AGAIN for someone else's geriatric case.

Maybe they'll trade out of the number one again...

Either way...we have two years of .500 or below before we can think about making it deep into the Playoffs. Our window of opportunity was too short.

Posted by: Devo | September 10, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

so who is gonna be our RB in 3-4 years?

Posted by: The Truth | September 10, 2008 10:48 AM

Hopefully someone we draft either next year or the year after, running backs are not that hard to come by in this league, you see rokkies doing good all the time. I am more worried about who are QB will be in 3-4 years, they have to make a choice either to give JC a new contract or get someone else.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

It never ceases to amaze me on here that you guys want to crucify the coach after his first game ever (I seem to remember Gibbs 1.0 started a little shaky) but you continue to coddle and make excuses for the QB in his 4th season. I don't get it.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 10, 2008 10:36 AM

(1) Nobody is crucifying Zorn right now. All we (or at least I) were saying was that he needs to show something to make us (me) believe he's truly equipped to be a good/great head coach in this league.

(2) And the difference b/w Zorn and Campbell is that I've seen Campbell play excellent football in the NFL. He's shown that he CAN do it. Campbell's earned his leeway. Now we're waiting for him to take the next step, and make it consistent. With Zorn, I have no idea who he is as a coach. I feel like Zorn needs to prove something before he gets that extra leeway.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

beep beep....

Posted by: Cindy | September 10, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

oh and beep squared

Posted by: Greg | September 10, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

JC still has a good chance to the be the best quarterback of his generation. Most quartbacks don't develop like Montana, straight out of the gait. With JCs size and calm and rocket arm I think he will be outstanding within a few years. To end all this speculation by dim bulb fans, Mr. Snyder should give a new contract to Zorn in the range of 5 years and Zorn should committ to JC for 3. Then maybe we can get back to talking Xs and Os.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

I never want a win because the other team's players are hurt. Injuries are a factor in this league, and there is no way around it, but I'm not hoping anybody gets hurt ever, if we can't beat them at their best we don't deserve the W, but the fact is, our guys get hurt too, so that is the nature of the league, but you shouldn't hope people get injured, you should hope everybody on our team and anybody else's stay healthy and its best on best.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 10, 2008 10:43 AM

Blah, blah, blah. Right. There should be an asterisk in the record book if we win when their players are injured. "Redskins this year didn't make the playoffs. They were 6-6*-4. They were beaten out by the Saints who were 7-2*-7. If only the Redskins had beaten more healthy teams...."

Posted by: motivator | September 10, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Devo,

Good post I hope that is the case, they should trade out of the 1st round next year unless there is a stud d-Lineman we can get then I would role the dice.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

For one thing, I think the words "young" and "kid" should never be associated with Campbell again. He's in his fourth year and is what a 27, 28 year old MAN?.

Posted by: Not Anonymous | September 10, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Flounder,

The problem with this team under Gibbs wasn't playing with intensity, it was doing it consistently. This team only seemed to play quality ball when their backs were up against the wall. If Zorn can get these guys to play well consistently, I would be a HUGE fan of his.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 10, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Reflections on Zebra's link to Cooley's FF draft party:

1. Suisham's wife is the HOTTEST player wife, hands down.

2. Good to see Doughty's son up and around toddling.

3. Can I say how much I love watching Smoot do ANYTHING?

Posted by: dcsween | September 10, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

A ray of hope--Colston out 4-6 weeks

Posted by: slots | September 10, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Truth, couldn't agree more with the beginning of you 10:40 post...

Anyone wishing injuries or whatever is just d-baggery at it's best. I would perfer to have Colston on the field. There isn't any excuses if the Saints lose.

brown, Colston does seem to be a bit fragile. He is a WR most of these guys are very fragile (Moss, Santana & Kelly, Malcolm)

Posted by: Red of the DMV | September 10, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

JLC,

This is a good read. I agree with your thoughts on this. Who would not prefer Cutler right now? The guy is talented but the guy has been in that one system with a good, solid line. And a playmaker, big playmaker, although a headcase in Brandon Marshall. Jason has more physical ability than anyone on that list, including Cutler. If Anderson was good he would have never left Baltimore but they did have the QB killer Billick there. It won't be long though before Quinn takes over, Anderson makes too many mistakes. Back to Jason, if these, or one of these rookie WR's emerge as does Davis to go with Cooley and the OL picks it up, we can see what Jason could do. Zorn knows QB's that is obvious, I hope he is given ample time with Jason and the team. This hire may be a failure but lets give it a few years. It can benefit this franchise long term. Jason is certainly more talented than any young QB we have had here in a long time.

Posted by: Franklin | September 10, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Devo,

Good post I hope that is the case, they should trade out of the 1st round next year unless there is a stud d-Lineman we can get then I would role the dice.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:54 AM

This also depends on the free agent market. A passed over up-and-comer would really add value. Much like the E. James trade if it pans out.

Posted by: Devo | September 10, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Zorn is taking over a 9-7 playoff team that made the postseason without their starting QB, RG, RT, OLD, CB, and FS, returned 20 out of 22 starters, lost 1 guy to free agency (Godfrey), added pro bowler Jason Taylor, and added 10 draft picks. Zorn has a much shorter leash. He has proven nothing. He needs to prove that he deserves to be given time. For all we know, he's the next Steve Spurrier.

Posted by: psps23 | September 10, 2008 9:48 AM

All that is great but if you judge Zorn on his first year or second and decide to get rid of him then you are just as bad as Snyder. Things take time to develop, this year they will be getting used to the offense they definatley should improve next year, but if they do not make the playoffs you sound like you would fire Zorn and start all over I do not agree with that.

Posted by: Flounder | September 10, 2008 10:03 AM

He also inherits a team that is a year older everywhere, and he lost a run stopping end in the NFC and replaced him with a pass rusher so that both edges are weak against the run now, his DT's are mediocre, his LB's are thin and other than Fletcher haven't played to their ability in a while, his corners are injury prone and outside of Springs are average, his safety outside of Landry are weak, his oline hasn't played to their reputation in a long long time and he had to replace his 7 million dollar RT with a undrafted FA, his RB is a prima dona who blocks harder than he runs, his wrs are midgets and his #1 quits on routes too early too often and drops key plays often, and his pro bowl TE doesn't block very well. Oh yeah, and his young QB might not fit his system and is far from a proven commodity. I think Zorn deserves some time to work on things in his system and I think Vinny finally has to know that he has to rebuild his lines after this year, I think they thought once Jansen and Thomas were back everything would be fine, but Jansen got benched cause he's done and the rest of the line is underachieving, I think as long as Snyder is what he says he is now, both Zorn and Vinny get this year and next offseason, then if the team isn't .500 or better next year one or both is gone. The only guy I think has an issue is JC, he's in his 4th year, he looked terrible week one, its a contract year so they have to make some decisions so if he continues to look terrible then I think mid-year he gets the hook.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 10, 2008 10:13 AM

Zjfr2, based upon your analysis, I have no idea how this motley crew made the playoffs last year. psps23, your analysis is dead on (except comparing Zorn with Spurrier just after one game is a bit harsh). Flounder, as a general matter, I agree with being patient and allowing for some growing pains, but this team is not in a rebuilding mode - it's not like they cut the high paid veterans and play untested rookies instead. Based upon last year and additions this year, this team should be in contention for the playoffs. I think that Zorn's job is safe if they miss the playoffs by a game or two, but if the record is 5-11 or worse, Zorn should be on a hot seat.

Posted by: M | September 10, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

JC still has a good chance to the be the best quarterback of his generation. Most quartbacks don't develop like Montana, straight out of the gait. With JCs size and calm and rocket arm I think he will be outstanding within a few years. To end all this speculation by dim bulb fans, Mr. Snyder should give a new contract to Zorn in the range of 5 years and Zorn should committ to JC for 3. Then maybe we can get back to talking Xs and Os.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2008 10:52 AM


You're kidding rite??? 3 more years of JC..

I won't have any hair left!!
W/O Todd Collins last year..skins would've been home for the playoffs....He hadn't threw a pass in 10years...

JC is too slow in processing what he sees...always late with the ball...very rare that he actually hits a receiver in stride..WC offense is all about RAC something JC has HUGE problems with...

I hope he can turn the corner but I haven't saw enough up side from him to keep going with him if he still flounders during the season...Go Skins!

Posted by: Skinsfan | September 10, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Lang | September 10, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

This blog is a great place to start, but how can you possible compare JC to 2007 and 2008 qbs who haven't been in the league half as long.

What about our 2004 qbs?
Eli Mannin
Phillip Rivers
Ben Roethelsburger


A better comparison would be where qbs were 4 years into their career

Posted by: horrible statistics | September 10, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Although, I haven't read all the blogs. It's one thing that I try to remember about JC. He's never been in a system long enough for him to mature. So now he's got Zorn telling him not to stand tall in the pocket... when that's what he's most likely been tought most of his career. I hate to envoke Gibbs name in this but, he looked at the talent his guys had and didn't asked them to play above their talents. So coach Z let the kid throw the ball the way he likes and you just might see better play from the kid.

Posted by: taw2u | September 10, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

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