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Guest Blog

Vincent, a grad student and deep thinker and a Skins fan as well, sent along a thoughtful account of what his fandom has been like the last, oh, 15 years. It's a fine piece of writing and I thought you all would enjoy it as we sit on Tuesday, a day of purgatory in the NFL week where Sunday's loss still lingers, and it's too soon to fully look ahead, as much as you may want to. No practice yet to dwell on, no injury updates on this day of rest, and a good time for heavy contemplation, which Vincent explains quite well.

Anyway, I'll let him take it from here:

My Conflicted Fandom
By Vincent Rossmeier


I knew. So too did the four fellow Redskins fans next to me. As soon as Sean Taylor went out, we knew. Sure the Redskins had the lead. Sure the offense had looked better than it had in weeks. These things didn't matter. We knew the Eagles would win.

And we were right.

This grim fatalism is a feeling me and my crazed cohorts have become accustomed to over the years. For us, a dropped pass can signify that the entire season is lost.

We're not alone in thinking like this. Go to any Redskins bar, watch a game with any group of Redskins fans, and you will witness a belief in determinism unmatched since the time of Spinoza. We are firmly convinced there are supernatural forces working against us and our team.

How else to explain the botched snap in the playoff game against the Bucs in 1999? What but the mocking hands of fate could have prevented Carlos Rogers from intercepting what would have been a certain return for a touchdown in our last playoff appearance against the Seahawks? I'm friends with Cubs fans who continually tell me how their team is jinxed. But the calamities the Redskins have suffered in the last fifteen years are unmatched by any other sports team. They can't be coincidences. No, the angry descendents of Zeus and Thor are behind the Redskins inanity and me and every other Redskins fan knows it.

In lieu of church, the Redskins are my religion. I became a fan the year after they won their last Superbowl, so I missed the glory years. From Norv to the ole ball Coach, from Michael Westbrook to Brandon Lloyd (Heath Shuler, lest I forget Heath Shuler ), I have endured the trials and tribulations of team loyalty. And for many years, my greatest wish was for the Redskins to return to dominance.

At least, I thought it was. Now, I'm not so sure that's what I really want. Call me fickle, but recently I've realized that my dependence on the Redskins may originate from a place not altogether psychologically healthy. My love of the Redskins stems from the fact that they will always, inevitably, fail me.

The Redskins exploit my desire to find the world disappointing. Now, not only do I expect the worst, in fact, I've learned to crave it. As a cynic, some (my girlfriend, my parents, my friends) would say prematurely curmudgeonly overgrown-kid of 25, the Redskins fit my personality perfectly. I need them to break my heart just as badly as they seem to want to break it. They fill my need for what journalist Tom Wolfe once derisively referred to in an essay on The New Yorker as "inchoate longings" - the angst that knows no name.

Every year, my off-season optimism gives way to in-season malaise. I rejoiced at Deion, I extolled the tenacity of Adam Archuleta. Hell, I even thought Trung Canidate was going to be a perennial 1200 yard rusher. But, by December, I'm a brittle, broken husk of a fan. I froth and foam with hatred for the team, the ownership, the conservative play-calling, the inability to throw anything but four yard outs. By March my temper has cooled, just in time for the free agent signing period. And then Dan Snyder signs everybody he can and I'm primed for a 16-0 season. Perhaps I'm just delusional. But all the Redskins fans I know think along these lines.

My view of the team, to steal from Hegel, is dialectical. There's an indestructible bond between my despondency and utopianism. They're competing, seemingly opposing outlooks that actually depend on one another.

My optimism is confined solely to the off-season, far removed from games that matter. It can't survive the NFL's brutal reality. Just as in my own professional career, only when the possibility of success, is just that, a possibility, a theory, do I find myself hopeful. But when reality - whether in the form of a football game or a chance to do something I actually care about - presents itself, my escapist fantasies and optimism crumble. And I take the easiest option available - pessimistic disdain.

See, I'm addicted to the pessimism the Redskins provide me because I need to be pessimistic. It's a defensive pose, but a protective one as well. An ideology that allows me to blame the world, the government, a team, for my failures instead of myself.

And the Redskins seem more than happy to indulge me. I've been trained to expect the worst for so long, that now, I actually fear success. If the Redskins suddenly became a well-run, imposing team (a scenario that seems laughable even to write), I can't imagine how I would react. I might have to find another team to root for. The Redskins failings and my ability to direct all of my frustrations with life onto them, have become a form of stability I require. If they became the Patriots, I might spontaneously combust. I might think dreams and reality had merged and that I was no more than one of Borges' meta-fictional creations because I'm so unprepared to handle their - and my own - victories.

But I can't keep myself from caring.

A few Sunday nights ago, after their loss to the Patriots, I swore I'd never waste another hour of my life on a team that so clearly only desired to trample upon my devotion. I refused to discuss football with anyone (including my father who loves to call me and leave three to four messages every time the Redskins lose), felt nauseous anytime I caught a clip of the Patriots blow-out on Sportscenter, and even threw my favorite Redskins t-shirt in the trash. I was done with them, I said, done . They didn't deserve me.

By Monday, like many a scorned lover, my resolve had weakened. By Tuesday, I was able to pull the shirt out of the trash. By Wednesday, I was back to reading the Post's sports section and the Insider blog compulsively. And by Thursday, I already had my Sunday plans determined with my fellow Redskins fans - where we'd watch the game, the Skins' chances, whether Gibbs would finally open up the offense. Friday we were talking about the possibility of a 10-6 season, and dare I say, playoffs, and what ifs and would bes, and everything in between. I needed a fix of pessimism and the Redskins were the only thing that could provide it.

And yet, always at the back of my mind was the certainty that I was only setting myself up for disappointment again. The Redskins have destroyed me before and they will destroy me again. But the problem isn't with them, it's with me. Ultimately, I need this abusive relationship. This Sunday, like every other, when it hits four p.m., the horror movie music will began to tremble through my brain, my pulse will began to race, and I'll want desperately to keep the TV off. But like a lot of other Redskins fans, I won't be able to resist. At four p.m., I'll be watching - externally hoping for a win, but inside, expecting and perhaps, aching for a loss.

By Jason La Canfora  |  November 13, 2007; 1:56 PM ET
 
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Comments

first ?

Posted by: freedom0125 | November 13, 2007 2:05 PM | Report abuse

I guess I don't quite understand this type of thinking. I mean, looking at this realistically:

1. The Redskins have won a total of 3 Super Bowls, and this guy thinks we're cursed? How about the Browns? Are they cursed? The Bengals? The Bills? Philly? I could be wrong, but the total super bowls won by those teams is ZERO correct?
Jumping over to baseball, how about Cleveland? Or the Sox before 04. Sorry, but I'm as big a Sox fan as their is, and never ONCE did I resort to this type of whining. They went 86 years, between Titles, so that kind of puts 15 years in perspective doesn't it?

I guess I'll end with this, and not to sound like a broken record, but if following the Redskins as a fan, causes you this much grief, and angst, then stop following them. Get a hobby to take up your time.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 13, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

doo-doo

Posted by: chelseatest | November 13, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for piling it on Jasno. "No gnus is good gnus" would have been a better option for today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAwVIZDAUF0

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

This dude needs to be locked up. This is NOT the ordinary perspective of a Redskins fan. I actually think we could have this guy committed to an institution if we showed a judge this rambling nonsense.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Is there a pulitzer prize for a blog entry? I couldnt really agree more...

Posted by: ledbettr13 | November 13, 2007 2:20 PM | Report abuse

I've been a die hard fan since birth and have been through all 3 SB wins. Even though I was only 6 for the first I still remember it.

Anywho, there is a fine line between being a die hard fan and someone who comes across as having mental issues. Sorry but this guy fits the latter.

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 2:23 PM | Report abuse

A too long for me but the parts I did read had me thinking. For the Skins are like a paper cut. You know when you touch it you will experience pain but you do it anyways. Every year I know they are going to cause me pain but I cheer for them and talk trash anyways.

Posted by: jm220 | November 13, 2007 2:26 PM | Report abuse

The Skins were my first and will always have my heart but I decided years ago that I couldn't take it any longer. I am a real Skins fan and that will never change but the pain has also been too much for me. The sense of foreboding that something bad will happen always overtakes me, as well. Well, Vincent, I found the solution. I found a mistress. Her name is Wizards. Vincent, I suggest you find a mistress as well. I hear the Caps are available.

Posted by: freedom0125 | November 13, 2007 2:27 PM | Report abuse

e. The sense of foreboding that something bad will happen always overtakes me, as well. Well, Vincent, I found the solution. I found a mistress. Her name is Wizards

LMGO!

Posted by: jm220 | November 13, 2007 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I thought this was a thoughtful and insightful description of the plight of the average fan, and very well written.

That said it's more like a dissertation written 'tongue in cheek' than a real blog posting. I say good job Vincent, I wish I could write this well!

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry but this just comes across to me as whining, and not much more. I don't get what the point of it was? How many years have the Cubs gone without a title, and he's trying to compare the Redskins to that? Nice try, but you're WAY off base.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 13, 2007 2:29 PM | Report abuse

freedom, The way the Wizards are playing right now it won't be long until you have to dump them too.

For the record I am a Wizards fan but I find it easier to turn the channel or not watch when they are playing like crap.

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Right on. Sadly you summed up my thoughts on Sunday after the game.

Posted by: relishfilms | November 13, 2007 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Um, "Best Glog Ever"

Beantown Greg: The kid is young so he doesnt have perspective, no winner context. My 20 year old kid brother is the same way. Also dont be so harsh.....

Libby mike, I dont know who you hang with, this sums up most skins fans I know!

Also people I am pretty sure this whipper-snapper had TONGUE FIRMLY IN CHEEK! If you take everything he says at face value, your the chump!


Excellent, well written, intelligent, funny.....

Vincent, hats off my man!

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Take note, kids. THAT is a Guest Blog Entry. Well done. Pulitzer Prize for blogging, indeed.

Posted by: PDiddy | November 13, 2007 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Any good news on the dog Diddy?

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 2:33 PM | Report abuse

And, yeah, it was CLEARLY tongue in cheek. Come on folks, have a sense of humor. Makes me wish Chuck Klostermann was a 'Skins fan.

Posted by: PDiddy | November 13, 2007 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"What but the mocking hands of fate could have prevented Carlos Rogers from intercepting what would have been a certain return for a touchdown in our last playoff appearance against the Seahawks?"

It's called the brick hands of Carlos not "the mocking hands of fate".

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 2:34 PM | Report abuse

The blog was reading along nicely until the guy writes that he threw away his redskins shirt. Get a freakin life dude.

Posted by: smarty_pants | November 13, 2007 2:34 PM | Report abuse

CL, sorry, I didn't see it that way, I'm not that bright, or that deep.

Those are my excuses, and I'm sticking to them.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 13, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

No news, I'm afraid. And no news in this circumstance is bad news. Turning my attention to the lurid task of dealing with lawyers now.

Posted by: PDiddy | November 13, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Greg, man chill.....you boston dudes are real hardons!

seriously greg, your my boy hahahahaha bu man are you intense!

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

"I rejoiced at Deion, I extolled the tenacity of Adam Archuleta. Hell, I even thought Trung Canidate was going to be a perennial 1200 yard rusher."

Right then and there is when this thing went south.

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Smarty pants....I through my shirt in the trash about 4:22 on sunday, after screaming at my wife "I dont care about the new jacket you got me at Old Navy!"

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I think this post is great. I've often thought that the Redskins have been cursed "to the seventh son of the seventh son" too for Snyder's attempt to circumvent the Gods required humble offerings and patience in returning to football Glory.

I've also analyzed this from every angle. I waffle between two points of view:

1. We are cursed. Tipped passes are never caught by us; they are returned for TDs or are natural "hook and laterals" that go for TDs for the other team. We dominate an opponent for 65 of 75 plays, in the other 10, they win the game. Suisham has a cannon of a leg when playing for Dallas, but once he comes to Washington, his kicks can't reach the 10. Trotter is an All-Pro MLB, we sign him, he promptly gets injured. Three years later, we release him. He returns to philly, and suddenly becomes healthy and an all pro again. Walt Harris can't cover anyone when he's with us, he becomes a Pro Bowler and leads the league in INTs the very next year. Champ Bailey NEVER returned an INT for a TD with Washington, he suddenly returns several when he's with Denver. John Hall has a cannon of a leg with the Jets, and is never injured, we sign him and injuries appear from nowhere, and he loses leg strength. It goes on and on and on.

2. The alternative is worse. We have coaches who have succeeded everywhere they've coached-- until they reach Washington. We sign any player we want-- we get first choice in the FA pool. So how to explain our pitiful performance? Across the board, from players through coaches to ownership-- we stink.

How else to explain it? Prior to the Eagles game, what I saw was **NOT** an NFL offense. You would watch another NFL game, and you'd say, "how come we can't do any of this?". Even teams with QBs pulled from the scrap heap and injuries decimating their entire offense, and backups-to-backups across key positions-- teams would move the ball and score. But the Redskins, with multi-millionaires across the entire offense-- and we can't score! The Ravens are as good- the Dolphins are as good-- the Jets are as good-- pick almost any team-- they're just as good, with players that are neophytes and backups to backups to backups. There's only one answer--we suck.

The answer is not more patience-- we have to blow up the system, and start all over. It's the only answer ...

Posted by: michaelbarnes | November 13, 2007 2:39 PM | Report abuse

wow.....ok...there called jokes people........

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Great post. It's not just the skins, it's all of DC area sports. (Forgetting the Nationals, whom I've never adopted), The Wizards keep pretending to be good only to regress each year. And don't get me started on the O's, a team that's broken my heart more times than I can even count. The one thing the O's having going for them over the skins is that I've been able to make a clean break with the O's. Once they let Mussina go, I withdrew my fandom, wished them luck and sent them on their way. I still am happy to see them win (all 70 games a year) but I won't root for them. The O's have no hope, but as Vincent so aptly points out, the skins continually give us reason for hope, only to dash that hope by seasons end.

And yet, despite all that, here I am, looking at the NFC and thinking, how much competition do we really have for that 6th playoff spot? The Lions? C'mon. The Saints? Beat the Rams and then we'll talk. Really, it's just us and Philly right now competing for that last spot. And if we do manage to sneak in at 9-7, we'll end up playing the Seahawks or Bucs and could sneak out a...

Oh jesus, look at me, they got me again...

Posted by: AlexBerger | November 13, 2007 2:41 PM | Report abuse

michaelbarnes I was with you, but HOW DARE you suggest that Miami's offense is only as good as the Ravens. Have you seen the Ravens!?! Even you guys are a lot better than that...

Sorry to hear that Diddy. Why do you have to deal with lawyers?

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

By the way, someone else may have pointed this out, but if you want a REAL SHOCKER, check the NFL leading rushers list and take a look at who's #3 in yardage behind Peterson and Willie Parker.

Wow. That snuck up on us, didnt it? Pretty good for a guy who the fans gave up for dead by week 6.

Posted by: AlexBerger | November 13, 2007 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Smarty pants....I through my shirt in the trash about 4:22 on sunday, after screaming at my wife "I dont care about the new jacket you got me at Old Navy!"

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 02:38 PM

At 4:24 she should have threw your ass out the house. LMGO!

Posted by: jm220 | November 13, 2007 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Champ returned his first pick for a TD against the Cardinals in his first year with the 'Skins. But I do get your drift, Michael :-)

Posted by: PDiddy | November 13, 2007 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Nice Alex!

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Well played sir! Especially the Borges. Hard to weave Argentine fantastic realism into a football blog, but you did it my man. Also strongly recommend Julio Cortazar.

Posted by: higglesworth | November 13, 2007 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Here's some interesting perspective on how much we Redskins fans are really suffering.

The Skins made it to the divisional playoffs the year before last and were one dropped pick-6 away from the NFC Championship Game. Since that year, out of the other 31 teams in the league, only 11 (less than half) can claim the same level of "success." The list of teams that have failed to match the recent success of the Redskins includes such storied franchises as the Cowboys, Giants, 49ers, and Packers.

Just food for thought.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 2:50 PM | Report abuse

AS WE SAY IN YORKSHIRE! WHAT? A LOAD OF CRAP!
I KNOW ABOUT BEING A FAN[ IVE BEEN SEASON TICKET HOLDER AT LEEDS UTD FOR 25 YEARS ]
AND REDSKINS FAN FROM 1981 [THE YEAR CH4 FIRST PUT THE NFL ON T-V OVER HERE ] IF I FELT LIKE THAT ABOUT LEEDS OR THE REDSKINS I WOULD GIVE IT ALL UP NOW ! WE LIVE IN HOPE SOME TIMES THATS ALL WE HAVE GOT?

Posted by: Diddytut | November 13, 2007 2:51 PM | Report abuse

CL, sorry, sometimes I get intense. Its from being a Sox fan I think, they were so bad for so long, you get a chip on your shoulder.

I'll tone it down....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 13, 2007 2:55 PM | Report abuse

At the risk of 'getting deep' again for just a moment I think that success in the NFL is a lot simpler than we think but much harder to achieve.

Step 1. A coach with a CLEAR vision that everyone buys into.
Whether you hate him, just loathe him, or simply want to punch him in the face forever, Bill Belichick has a clear vision of how he wants him team to play and embeds that vision into ALL of his players - either they buy-in or they're gone. He coaches his teams to expect high-levels of personal responsibility/accountability (execute your assignment within the plan NO MATTER WHAT) of each other.
Step 2. Find someone to BE the coach on the field.
For New England it's Brady on offense, Bruschi on defense. These guys are the proxies for the coach on the field. They "channel" what the coach would expect and constantly remind everyone around them of their roles and assignments in the plan.
For Baltimore it was Ray Lewis in 2000, but it's gotten old as the team couldn't adapt.

I saw it happen at Manchester United in the UK. Alex Ferguson set the tone for the team, but it wasn't until Roy Keane became the embodiment of him on the field that they really took off as a force. And it wasn't until Keane's effectiveness began to wane that the veneer of invincibility wore off.

I think Gibbs 1.0 had that drive, who was his "guy on the field"? I think the challenge you have now is Gibbs 2.0 is NOT that "driven guy" any more.

Sorry for that, back to regular blogging.

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I'm also trying to say it's more than just being "team captain" for those guys on the field too. They have to be Leaders with a capital 'L'.

Manning (P) has it, Manning (E) doesn't. Favre has it, Brees and McNabb don't. That's why it doesn't happen often to me, you may have a 'driven' coach with a clear vision (Gruden?) but you need the player on the field too - and not just for one season.

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Let's see a show of hands on who thinks we'll win this weekend? That's what a I thought. Can't wait to hear the typical bs excuses after this lopsided defeat.

Posted by: chelseatest | November 13, 2007 3:06 PM | Report abuse

That post is insane... I have one word that describes this blog post and the redskins organization these past 15 years... SATIRE

Alex... that's interesting. The very sad thing is that our defense carried this team the first few weeks and now that the offense is beginning to turn the corner, it looks they will need to carry the defense since guys are dropping like flies back there!

Posted by: ericnelson77 | November 13, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I had to get out the dictionary- never happened before reading the Insider (or any of LaCanfora's stuff). Aren't we fans all tortured souls- our lives angst ridden since the early 80's and the days of glory?
Old Vince has a point- even if it has too many big words in it. I'll still take all the ups and downs- it's part of what makes life and being a Skins fan interesting.

Posted by: howardhaney | November 13, 2007 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Trung Canidate. Hilarious!

Posted by: jkorzen | November 13, 2007 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Vincent - loverly job! Littery references were outstanding! (where is dealer BTW?)

Except the curse - I think the curse is me.

Of their 4 SBs - I didn't live in DC for 3/4. I think the gods gave me some reprieve in mid 80s (1987) because I was living an afterschool special adolescence.

I'm in NE for college and Pats are the joke of the league.

I move to Philly and they have 2 mediocre years, I leave and they begin their ascendance.

I move to LA and Rams and Raiders leave. No NFL in LA.

I move to SF and Raiders and Niners take nose dives. One year after the Raiders go to SB.

Meanwhile Skins are on a slow train to crapville.

I think it's me. Clearly the fubol gods don't like and don't want me to be a fan.

I need to be purified. Any suggestions?

Posted by: sfskin | November 13, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

You never forget your first love, whether it's a high school sweetheart, a faithful old hunting dog, or a fickle football team that seems to rip your heart out year after year.

Vincent you're dead on about one thing, they sure do make me miserable year in and year out. After this last loss I pondered for a day or so about why I actually let myself believe they will do something great and pull off a needed win. Haven't I learned by now?! Nonetheless, its Tuesday and I'm back to reading a few articles and by tomorrow I'll be full go screaming for a W over that team in Texas.

Posted by: jdixon35 | November 13, 2007 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Good writing, Vincent! I can see that you are still young enough to feel real pain by being a Redskin fan. After a few more years you will just get blissfully numb from their ever losing ways. You will still feel unreasonably high the day of a win and you will greedily read every post written in the press that describes the game, perhaps already knowing that this glory is all too fleeting. Later in life you will sit through a Redskin loss and feel less depression because you are already too well rehearsed in this business. The mood that will come over you is one of the loss of a sunny, fall afternoon that has been sacraficed to the idiots on the football field once again. You know too well that others not afflicted with being a Redskins fan have spent that afternnoon you just wasted with their spouses, or played golf or read a good book or done something that made life better for them. Just consider yourself blessed if you merely watched them lose on television and did not have to sit in traffic for hours afterwards.

Posted by: driley | November 13, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

sfskin, Come to Dallas. I'll put you up at my place if it means the Cowboys are going to tank.

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Trung caused me to chuckle. That guy was awful, LOL. Thank you Steve Spurrier.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 13, 2007 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Loved the Guest Blog; certainly a change from the regular musings. Vincent said he checks out RI faithfully--anyone have any idea what is ID is? Just curious to see if his posts match this guest blog.

Posted by: NCICURN | November 13, 2007 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Vincent is Skippy.

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I'd think twice before I blamed the offense this past week. If the game plan could get Thrash open deep and Portis lots of yards behind this makeshift line, it's working. This one can be blamed on #21's injury. Sure we could have salted it away with a touch instead of field goal but 25 points should win every week.
One last question. Am i oversimplifying football or does it not make sense to have your biggest back and biggest blockers just create a hole on the goal line? How about Lorenzo Alexander as FB and Sellers as HB running right behind [put heaviest lineman's name here]? 280 (Sellers) + 290 (Alexander) + 300 (Samuels) should equal 7. There's no linebacker or tackle in the league who should be able to stop that. The Fridge was a gimmick in the 80's but people need to take that strategy seriously. BTW, someone needs to tell Sellers that he's not supposed to be dancing in the backfield or jumping over piles. If there is no hole, make a hole. If we wanted a jitterbug, we'd give it to Portis.

Posted by: freedom0125 | November 13, 2007 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Grande Pescado - I don't think my bad mojo works for just one game. It's seasonal. It's like an STD - only notice it after it's too late.

BTW - I know it's only Tuesday and the hangover from Sunday is only beginning to wear off but is anyone else diving into the Kool Aid early? I think my Kool Aid intake may be modulated the rest of the season but Dallas week - I can't help it. I slip on the burgundy and gold glasses and dive head first into the Pacific ocean of Kool Aid. Utterly totally completely irrational.

GO SKINS!
BEAT DALLAS!
SJK the Cowboys!

I'm an amputee this week for trash talking but who cares!

Posted by: sfskin | November 13, 2007 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Someone please please please please explain to me how the Packers are near the top of the NFL power rankings. I know it may seem insane but I pray Dallas crushes them. The most upsetting part is it could easily be the Redskins in their shoes. They are no better than the Redskins are and are somehow 8-1. It's Mind blowing that they can be considered andthign but a joke. As much as i hate the cowboys atleast they are actually good.

Posted by: sams3 | November 13, 2007 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Vincent,

I have to say that I was looking for any reason at all to hate your guest blog. You weren't going to get the benefit of any doubt I had. But, dude, you pulled it off. Well done, and perfect reading for a gloomy Tuesday.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 3:41 PM | Report abuse

On the goal line, Portis = Joe Washington and Sellers = Riggins.

Whay do we keep giving the ball to Joe Washington on goal line running plays?

Anyone who's seen Portis in person knows that the dude is 195-200 soaking wet with 3 layers of clothes on. It makes no sense to give him the ball and expect him to run people over. Even Betts is a good straight line runner and better option. What are we thinking ?

Posted by: freedom0125 | November 13, 2007 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Someone please please please please explain to me how the Packers are near the top of the NFL power rankings.

The media have a lot invested in Favre love. As long as he's with the team, they will always be rated higher than they should be.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 3:42 PM | Report abuse

freedom0125 part of the reason that betts doesn't get the ball is because he is ass checks. all he does is fumble to blow games. he tried it again this week but andre carter wouldnt let him.

Posted by: sams3 | November 13, 2007 3:43 PM | Report abuse

bret farve is the worst QB. why does he get so much credit all he ever does is throw it at db's at 100 mph and hope they will tip it to a wr.

Posted by: sams3 | November 13, 2007 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Best... guest blog post... ever.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 3:45 PM | Report abuse

What persay is the PDX?

Posted by: sams3 | November 13, 2007 3:46 PM | Report abuse

freedom0125 part of the reason that betts doesn't get the ball is because he is ass checks. all he does is fumble to blow games. he tried it again this week but andre carter wouldnt let him.

Posted by: sams3 | November 13, 2007 03:43 PM

sams3--How many times has a Betts fumble blown a game? He's carried the ball 623 times, and he's fumbled 8 times. Of those 8, 6 were lost. Did every one of those blow a game? Is one lost fumble in every hundred carries a lot or a little in the NFL?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Not counting this year, I have been following the skins for 54 years. Lombardi, Allen, and Gibbs were the coaches for 23 of those seasons with a combined winning percentage of 66%. All the other coaches combined had a winning percentage of 41%. That's 31 years of rooting for a bad team.

I have not done research for other teams, but I bet you will find similar records. I guess the point of this is that most teams are going to be bad, or not real good, more often than not.

I still watch the skins every chance I get and still am happy with every win.

I may be in the minority here, but I am glad we have Joe Gibbs. I believe he has bought stabilitiy to an organization that had its head up its butt.

Posted by: Markin21132 | November 13, 2007 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe any of you won't attribute their perennial losing to the name of the franchise. It's obvious that a curse has been leveled against the team by some native american voodoo. Wake up and demand that, in the 21st century, we're not gonna have a team called the Redskins. Did you see that guy at the Philly game right before a commercial break wearing a headdress and waving a tomahawk? it was insane. are we living in the stone age? until the redskins (really think about the name for a minute, don't just dismiss what I'm saying) figure out it's not cool to demean a people that were systematically exterminated, we will forever suck.


Posted by: greerdoggy | November 13, 2007 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Good read on an otherwise uneventful tuesday. I wouldnt say we are cursed, but the gods arent with us either.

Posted by: SAK | November 13, 2007 3:52 PM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator have you ever watched him run. its about the worst garbage i think ive ever seen. he makes it maybe a yard unless the blocking is perfect. CP is sick on the goal line the problem was not him. they should have ran that sweep to the left that works every single time CP runs it. when they have betts run it he never makes it past the line. there is a reason CP holds records and betts holds jocks.

Posted by: sams3 | November 13, 2007 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Someone please please please please explain to me how the Packers are near the top of the NFL power rankings. ... The most upsetting part is it could easily be the Redskins in their shoes. They are no better than the Redskins are and are somehow 8-1.

Posted by: sams3 | November 13, 2007 03:40 PM

Is this post 'tongue in cheek' too? When the Redskins nlow out the Vikings 34-0 later in the season you would at least have some substance to base the above claim upon. Even I wouldn't say that Miami were as good as the Redskins, even though we score more points per game than you and we only lost on O/T on a coin-toss....

The records don't lie. Green Bay have found a way to win 8 out of 9 games (and blew a very late lead to lose the other), Washington have only found a way to win 5 out of 9, and dear old Miami, 0 out of 9.

It's not Favre-love, media-bias or anything else, it's just that right now they're better, that's all.

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 3:53 PM | Report abuse

greerdoggy,

If the name were a curse then they never would have won a super bowl right? In facth, they never would have won a game, right? Indeeed, their airplane would crash everytime they took off to play a game.

And, actually, they chose the name "Redskins" out of admiration for the courage and bravery of native Americans. Why would they have chosen the name of a group that they wanted to demean?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"Someone please please please please explain to me how the Packers are near the top of the NFL power rankings. I know it may seem insane but I pray Dallas crushes them."


Um, rankings are just some dudes' opinion. Who gives a sjk? You want Dallas to crush GB because they're near the top of some power rankings?! WTF?!

Posted by: 4-12 | November 13, 2007 3:54 PM | Report abuse

We are cursed by a Native American Indian Shaman. Plain and simpley put our curse will not change until we change our name. The curse was put on us after the '91 SB and here we find ourselves 15 years later in a pile of Snyder excrement.

Until we change the name of the franchise we will not win anything meaningful.

Posted by: P00P | November 13, 2007 3:56 PM | Report abuse

if dallas has homefield locked up the game at the end of the year will be a cake walk

Posted by: sams3 | November 13, 2007 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I love this post. It is refreshing to read something about football that goes beyond stats and gets to the emotional aspect of being a fan.

Posted by: jessica2 | November 13, 2007 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Mark (from the future) my admiration for you going up on top of your barn grew even more after that post.

Unless you started supporting the 'Skins several years before you were born (as you're from the future I concede this may be possible) kudos to you!

I'm in my late 40s and way too chickenshti to get up on a barn roof any more!!

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 4:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad I took the time to log on here today... you guys make me laugh and that is something that is what we all need after sunday...

"Um, rankings are just some dudes' opinion. Who gives a sjk? You want Dallas to crush GB because they're near the top of some power rankings?! WTF?!"

HA LOL... I couldn't agree more.

Posted by: ericnelson77 | November 13, 2007 4:01 PM | Report abuse

mr. talent evaluator,

good engagement.

1) I maintain that the curse is only now being leveled as numerous native american organizations have sued the redskins trying to get them to change their name. as the lawsuits went nowhere (danny killed them with high-priced corporate lawyers, I believe the judgments have been made over the last fifteen years), they have turned to witch-craft as a judicial alternative.

2) aren't native americans the ones in a position to decide if they find a name demeaning or not? i think it's their call, not some white dude like myself or, presumably, you. we can SAY we think we're honoring them by mentioning their skin color, but if the people we're supposedly honoring say, 'uh, actually we find that name incredibly racist and ridiculous', i think we have to go with their opinion no? for instance, most people don't use the n-word anymore. why? because black people said 'we kind of find that word racist'. what's the difference?

Posted by: greerdoggy | November 13, 2007 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Nice post. I'm glad to see that someone else suffers from Stockholm Syndrome.

Posted by: SeanTizzy2DaHizzy | November 13, 2007 4:01 PM | Report abuse

The curse was put on us after the '91 SB.

Posted by: P00P | November 13, 2007 03:56 PM

Not much of a shaman if he waited until we'd won three super bowls, is he? Did it take him that long to graduate from Shaman U.?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Apologies if the author of this post was joking, or was tongue in cheek, but I'm surprised that he has found so many Redskins fans are just like him. Rather than thriving on the disappointments and losses, I exult in victory. Someone once compared cheering for the Redskins with being forcibly drowned, and I totally agree. Every time we lose I feel like someone is holding me under water and I'm gasping for air. When we win, it's like they're letting me come up for a breath... but I know they're about to push me back under again. Like the author, I was only 8 when the Redskins won a Super Bowl, so I don't really remember what it's like to not be drowning. Think I'm a little too obsessed?

But don't you dare take gregmarino88's tack and suggest that if following the Redskins as a fan causes me "grief, and angst, then stop following them." Like any real fan, I know that I'll never be able to stop caring about or following them. And the pleasure in their successes far outweighs the tragedy in their defeats.

Posted by: mdwizard | November 13, 2007 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Maybe he was busy building up his cursing business in Shaman Oaks?

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 4:04 PM | Report abuse

greerdoggy,

Are you saying they have all these supernatural powers but are to stupid to know how to use them effectively? Everyone knows that if they could level a curse, it would have been to take ownership of the Redskins and change the name, not to make them lose.

Uh, no, just because a group claims that it's been offended is not cause to change a team's name -- free speech and all that. The guy who owns the team gets to name it whatever he wants.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 4:09 PM | Report abuse

RC,

We got our first TV when I was six, so that is when I started watching football and rooting for the skins. The barn roof is not that high, and I had ladders and ropes set up to keep me safe. I learned safety first many years ago.

Also, bad pun, but it brought a chuckle.

Posted by: Markin21132 | November 13, 2007 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Another b@stard child of the ever abusive Norv/Danny/Gibbs pater familias. Vincent, I know your pain. If I knew you personally I would be sitting on that couch next to you on Sunday quietly brooding in expectation for a let down. Wins don't even feel like wins anymore. Thanks for sharing.

Posted by: Dorf | November 13, 2007 4:14 PM | Report abuse

MDWiz, you equate the Redskins losing a game, to being held against your will underwater, but have a problem with me suggesting that perhaps some people need to find a hobby to occupy their time?

Are you kidding or not?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 13, 2007 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Mr. TE,

So I assume free speech would cover an owner wanting to name his team the DC n-g--rs? or the new york ahem, jews? etc.. etc...? or is there some point where reasonable people step in and put a stop to derogatory speech?

it's so caveman to say, 'i don't care if you find what i call you racist, i'm HONORING you!' good stuff.

Posted by: greerdoggy | November 13, 2007 4:18 PM | Report abuse

I really wanted to write 'the new york k-kes' but the filters stopped me. you get the point. why are there filters on this blog! what about free speech!

Posted by: greerdoggy | November 13, 2007 4:21 PM | Report abuse

All typically self-effacing Mark (from the future), but you're still one of my heroes now. You're just going to have to deal with that and move on. ;-)

And as for puns - are there any good ones? I thought that 'bad' was the point!

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 4:22 PM | Report abuse

I hear you about knowing the second when were about to give away the game. The second Pierson went down last season it was over. Its smaller that that sometimes too.

But your not a real Redskins fan because Deion came from the Cowboys. @#$% the Cowboys

Posted by: cilp33 | November 13, 2007 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Sfskin, it's not you. The truth of the matter is....I jinxed the team. I moved to DC right after our last Super Bowl win and the team went downhill after that. Yep, blame it on me :(

So I've decided I will relocate and give hope back to our team and city. Guarantee you if I move we will once again become a winning franchise.

Think I will move to Dallas and put the curse on them.

Posted by: Lisa | November 13, 2007 4:23 PM | Report abuse

greerdog--

Is there an owner who wants to use the names you suggest or are those just hypotheticals? I'm not sure it would be a good business decision.

As to the Post's filter, this is their blog. They own it. They can control what words are used, just like an owner can control the name of his team.

And, gee, what if I'm offended by the term "caveman"?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Ah, now I understand why the Yankees won the Civil War! Didn't they have a Shaman called Tecumseh on their side?

greerdoggy, look up "dead horse, flogging a". I don't believe t_e is advocating names that qualify as discriminatory on any legal basis.

I understand your point too, but the fact that some modern mores (can't find an accent for my 'e') now determine the word 'Redskins' to be unacceptable doesn't actually seem to be widely accepted.

I think it comes down to this: short of the team name being something specifically proscribed under statute the owner can call their team whatever they want however distasteful.

That said, ANY group can always exert 'commercial pressure', that is, hit Danny Boy in the wallet to make him consider changing that. So if you and others find the name to be unacceptable, find ways to exert commercial pressure and you may get what you seek.

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Vinny,

If it was satire, well done. If it was from the heart I know how you feel. I swore off this team on this blog Sunday night. Now I'm gearing up for Dallas. What the hell, in for a dime, in for a dollar. Go Skins.

Posted by: rmfsports | November 13, 2007 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Vincent, I believe Robert Palmer has a verse about this ... might as well face it you're addicted to mud.

I still have a little vomit taste in my mouth after Sunday's game (and not just from the shots with Jasno the night before). Some TOUGH breaks repeated ad nauseous so far ... and I don't know if anyone has pulled out the power of THIS poop ... but I'm officially ready to send Ladell Betts packing. His 4th quarter fumble KILLED the momentum and mojo to win (I concede we got it right back ... but it served as the gentle reminder to the team about how to choke when it really counts).

I'm thinking some team who has their #1 back already ... Betts is under a manageable contract for ANY team ... maybe we can get back the 4th round pick (the one left in the toilet bowl re: Duckett or Lloyd) or whatever pick it is -- 4th or 5th -- for Kendall.

Some outstanding performances by some individuals, but losing Sean Taylor was like opening up the cinch rope at the top of a bag. EVERYTHING is now open for EVERYONE. Prioleau, Landry, and Fox are all strong safeties (hence big on special teams) ... can Doughty run fast and catch?

Also, shouldn't Mrs. in the PDX be ready to pop at any moment now?

Posted by: dcsween | November 13, 2007 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I believe Mrs Nate is classified as 'impending' or somesuch currently 'sween.

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat and TE,

Good comments.

The names I offered were hypotheticals. The reason they aren't viable is that most of society has decided they aren't acceptable.
You're absolutely right to point that out. The problem is historical, not moral. I think most people would have a problem with the name Redskins if you were to ask them about it, but most people WOULDN'T agitate against it because native americans, traditionally, are the most ignored and forgotten of minorities. this is primarily due to the fact that there frankly just aren't many of them left, they've been marginalized outside of mainstream society by the reservation system, and there was no widespread civil rights movement that ever advocated for them in the same way we saw with african americans.

i'm not arguing about the law in this matter. of course it's LEGAL now to call the team the 'redskins'. the question is whether it's RIGHT to. i don't think native americans, whose opinion has been ignored and belittled, would find this a matter of flogging dead horses.

by your calculus, we should have allowed 'commercial' pressures to push for african-american civil rights. that can work in sometimes symbolic ways (see boycotts, etc..), but ultimately it's national outrage that generally galvanizes change. why not make mention of it now and again on the team's blog? maybe a few people will start to say something. if we remain quiet and ignore the issue, nothing will change. lastly, if the group in question lacks the financial and political means to exert commercial pressure, then how can they be expected to change the system?

if more people stand up and say, 'you know what, if a million native americans find my team name offensive, i'll change it'. it's classy, it's morally justified, and it shows that you can do the right thing even when you're wallet isn't on the line.

it's not a matter of free speech so much of respect. there's no tired culture war here...

the club's woes are due to the incompetent management of the team obviously, but anytime i see an opening to discuss an example of institutionalized racism i will continue to flog that horse until it wakes up from the dead.

self-righteously yours,

Posted by: greerdoggy | November 13, 2007 5:05 PM | Report abuse

"When the fans speak to the coach of Ebbsfleet United, he just might have to listen to them.

An Internet-based collective of soccer fans from more than 70 countries agreed in principle Tuesday to buy a controlling interest in the lower-league English soccer club."

MyFootballClub: http://www.my-footballclub.co.uk

Ebbsfleet United: http://www.ebbsfleetunited.net

Maybe we can buy the skins - I know, a pipe dream.

Posted by: Markin21132 | November 13, 2007 5:06 PM | Report abuse

I think what they need to do with Betts is make him carry a football everywhere and have everyone try and knock it out. He's always had fumbleitis and this should have been done long ago. Besides, it'll be good practice for everyone.

Posted by: daveskin | November 13, 2007 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Thoughtfully and elegantly put greerdoggy. Keep advocating away!

I'm not saying having to use 'commercial pressure' is right by the way, but I AM saying it often seems to be how change is best and most speedily effected here.

4th floor advocated strongly for the Jena 6 here earlier this year. I know that many people here joined in the lobbying once they became aware, so the machine does still work when you mobilize people effectively.

Posted by: Redcoat | November 13, 2007 5:14 PM | Report abuse

et tu, sween? I didn't think you'd be that fickle over Betts. One fumble and you're done with him? After the way he played for us last year?

In six years with the 'Skins he's run the ball 623 times, fumbled eight times, and the 'Skins recovered two of them. So, you have less than one lost fumble per one hundred carries and you'd off him for a fifth round pig in a poke. Why do you believe that the pig in the poke will be better than Betts?

And, how was it up there pounding them down with Jasno? Did he pay, or did you?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 5:20 PM | Report abuse

On a purely football note, I'd love to know who people think should replace Gibbs. Cowher? Man-boobs? Um, Saunders? I'd like to see Russ Grimm get a shot, maybe someone from the Patriots franchise.

What do people think?

Posted by: greerdoggy | November 13, 2007 5:25 PM | Report abuse

sams3, greerdoggy, welcome to you lads, and to all the other new peeps posting comments up here today. Great, great guest post and good jibba jabba down here.

sams3, PDX = Portland, Oregon.

doggy, I'm with chRis Larry and many others, hoping for Grimm. But no matter who gets the job, it is my solemn vow to invest unrealistically high expectations in the new coach, and maintain those unrealistically high expectations even in the face of poor results. That's how I roll.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 5:29 PM | Report abuse

greerdoggy,

Sorry man, I just can't follow your logic. There is nothing wrong with the name and people who are concerned about it need a better use of their time. First, when the average person hears the term "redskin" he thinks about a football team, not an ethnic group. One could say that the term doesn't even refer to American Indians anymore.

Second, the research I've read is that "redskin" was used as a descriptive term and not generally as a slur. In that sense, it is more akin to Jew or Black than the "n" word or the "k" word. Not only is it a legal name, but there is NOTHING wrong with it. If it was the Washington savages, that would be a different story.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Not Cowher. Please not Cowher. I'm not one of these crazy "we can win the superbowl in the coach's first season" people, but I'm not up for the 17-year plan Cowher employed in Pittsburgh.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 5:43 PM | Report abuse

LiberalMike, I disagree with your assertion that "there is nothing wrong with the name." You could make that claim about "Eagles" or "Steelers" or "Packers" or any other mascot in the league, but not about "Redskins." A nothing-wrong-with-it name wouldn't engender the kind of debate that this name does.

And as before, we can line up on either side of the rename-or-not argument, but it's going to take a court order or some magnificent impact to the team's bottom line to cause us to adopt a new mascot.

And as before, I'm voting for "Warriors." Danny already owns the rights, it's pleasantly alliterative, nothing else has to change in the color scheme or logo, etc.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Wow, I feel the same way.

Posted by: Gltek01 | November 13, 2007 5:53 PM | Report abuse

I could never stay calm enough to write that while all those horrible memories came rushing back. It would digress into a bunch of @*&#*#$^#@^ by mid point.

BTW, to the guy who said we aren't cursed. It's true! we are.......and the curse really set in after they let Dan Turk die alone in his Ashburn house without so much as a visit from a player or coach the off-season after that bad snap against Tampa. His wife said she hated the org for it and it hurt him.

Posted by: Jahswim | November 13, 2007 5:56 PM | Report abuse

The curse was put on us after the '91 SB.

Posted by: P00P | November 13, 2007 03:56 PM

Not much of a shaman if he waited until we'd won three super bowls, is he? Did it take him that long to graduate from Shaman U.?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 04:01 PM

Yes T_E...he got his doctorate in "Curses n Stuff" in the summer of '90 upon which he joined in the protest for the Redskins moniker after they garnered national attention going 14-2 that year.

His name is Walk-run Stiffarm and I love him.

Posted by: P00P | November 13, 2007 5:57 PM | Report abuse

*** Geelong Cats post for Kost ***

It seemed like such a good idea...

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22750529-661,00.html

*** End Geelong Cats post for Kost **

Posted by: 4-12 | November 13, 2007 6:10 PM | Report abuse

"A nothing-wrong-with-it name wouldn't engender the kind of debate that this name does."

Nate, all due respect, you are crazy if you believe this statement in the hypersensitive P.C. world we live in. Also, I would point out that plenty of crazies b_tch about the Chiefs, the Braves, and the Seminoles, among others. Also, "Warriors" paired with the skins logo would send a bunch of lunatics on the "warpath" about how it portrays American Indians as violent when we all know they were really the peaceful, one-with-nature innocent victims portrayed in Disney's Pocahontas.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Vincent:

Nice blog, really well written, man. I'm a big skins fan as well as a buddy of a mutual friend, Wayne Xia, who told me to read this post. I couldn't agree with you more. Be sure to tell Wayne to let me know when you're around NYC, and we can mourn skins losses together.

Posted by: changerbanger2 | November 13, 2007 6:17 PM | Report abuse

"Q: Why don't Native Americans like sports teams with Indian mascots?
A: Some Native Americans find the concept of using humans as mascots spiritually offensive, but most native people who object to sports teams are doing it because of specifically racist aspects of the teams. For example, "Redskins" and "Squaws" are such crude words I really hesitated to use them on this page at all, but major professional and college sports teams use them as their names. Other teams with non-offensive names, like "Indians" or "Warriors," still use offensive pictures (like the Cleveland Indian mascot) or have white dancers mimicking Native American religious rituals. These things are hurtful and make Indians feel angry, just as mocking pictures and names making fun of you would. Most Native Americans do not have a problem with sports teams that have non-offensive names and do not include rude pictures or religious insults. Some Native American tribes have welcomed local sports teams named in their honor when those teams treat them respectfully."

"It's better to avoid using "Red Indian," for two reasons: first, this name originally referred to a specific tribe, the Beothuks, who painted their bodies and faces with red ochre. So it may cause confusion if you use it to refer to all Native Americans. Second, the term "Red Indians" has been used by racists in the United States, so using it may hurt somebody's feelings or give them the wrong impression. Please do not call native people "savages," "primitives" or "redskins." Those are always rude words."

http://www.native-languages.org/kidfaq.htm

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 6:19 PM | Report abuse

What ever happened to "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me?"

I can't see the case for those who would limit a person's freedom of speech on the grounds that a third party's feelings would be hurt. If someone wants to hurt a third party's feelings, then I may not think well of him, but that's his right.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 6:22 PM | Report abuse

way to cite to an unbiased organization Bigfish. So some dude made a website in his basement about why he doesn't like the name.

Also, "when those teams treat them respectfully" = $$$$

Seriously, these people need to get a life. And, actually, if they wanted to call it the Washington LiberalMikes and have a logo of my face, I don't think it would make me angry at all.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 6:25 PM | Report abuse

What about our current logo is "making fun" of American Indians again?

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Mike, That "dude" happens to be an American Indian. If I want to know how blacks feel about being called a ni**er then I'l ask a black person. If I want to hear how Jews like being called a k**e then I'll ask a Jewish person. Do you see any other American Indians on this blog giving opinions?

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Seriously, these people need to get a life. And, actually, if they wanted to call it the Washington LiberalMikes and have a logo of my face, I don't think it would make me angry at all.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 06:25 PM

I hope you're kidding. Assuming you're white how about they call it the Washington Whitetrash Honk**s and put a picture of you in it?

I'm sure if we were the Washington Indians with that same picture on our logo then there would have never been any problems.

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 6:34 PM | Report abuse

On a purely football note, I'd love to know who people think should replace Gibbs. Cowher? Man-boobs? Um, Saunders? I'd like to see Russ Grimm get a shot, maybe someone from the Patriots franchise.

What do people think?

Posted by: greerdoggy | November 13, 2007 05:25 PM

I'll take Marty Shottenheimer back. I disagreed with his handling of some of the vets, and his hiring of too many family members. But he was clearly in charge and he's the only coach who steered the Skins in a winning, competent direction.

I think Gibbs is making progress, but I would say Shottenheimer did the best coaching for the Skins since Gibbs 1.0.

After him, we started going after "big names" (Spurrier, Deion, Norv, etc.) and killing ourselves with the salary cap.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 13, 2007 6:40 PM | Report abuse

JLC you lard F
we HAVE A WINNING RECORD you D

Posted by: jonthefisherman | November 13, 2007 6:42 PM | Report abuse

"I'm sure if we were the Washington Indians with that same picture on our logo then there would have never been any problems."

You are crazy if you believe that. Look at the Chiefs. They get protestors. Whats offensive about their name/logo? Or the Seminoles? There are a lot of bored people out there looking for things to complain about.

To me, White Trash Honk__s would be akin to Savages or something like that. The name is inherently insulting and offensive, not simply descriptive. It offends not only low income white people but other races as well by implying that they are already "trash."

There is nothing wrong with having the redish hue to your skin tone that many American Indians had, so there is nothing insulting about describing that hue.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 6:43 PM | Report abuse

"To me, White Trash Honk__s would be akin to Savages or something like that. The name is inherently insulting and offensive, not simply descriptive. It offends not only low income white people but other races as well by implying that they are already "trash." "

See Mike this is my whole point. It is easy for those of us who are not American Indians to say that we don't think the name is offensive. Let me ask you this. If you or Dan Snyder or any of us were in a room full of American Indians would any of us address them as "Redskins"?

Also the Chiefs don't get 1/100 of the criticism that the Redskins get for having their name and the Seminoles are one of those organizations that have gained respect from the American Indian community by dropping their Indian-like war dance during halftimes and when the team scores. Mostly all Indians don't have a problem with them because their name represents a proud tribe that is Indigenous to that area.

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 6:50 PM | Report abuse

"See Mike this is my whole point. It is easy for those of us who are not American Indians to say that we don't think the name is offensive. Let me ask you this. If you or Dan Snyder or any of us were in a room full of American Indians would any of us address them as "Redskins"?"

I'm sure I would not, but it is not because I think it is offensive. It is because everyone in the room, American Indians included, would think I was referring to a football team, not to them. In modern usage, that is what the term means. Its as simple as that.

And it can't be subjective like you seem to think. The "N" word and the "K" word are offensive not just because black people and Jewish people think so, but because a vast majority of our society thinks so. Can't say the same thing about "Redskin" because the vast majority of our society think of it as a team name, not as a description of American Indians.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 6:57 PM | Report abuse

By the way, when Schottenheimer was coaching in Cleveland he hired Bill Cowher to Cowher's first coaching job--special teams coach.

Schottenheimer's got the playoff knock against him, but I'll settle for just GETTING to the playoffs at this point.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 13, 2007 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Since the mascot debate version5.3 is such a snooze, I should clarify my comment above and note that there is one other NFL team mascot I find troubling: the Buffalo Bills.

Buffalo Bill Cody slaughtered the majestic buffalo by the thousands, and personally saw to their near-extinction. So the football team based in the team named for this great animal selected as its mascot... the dude who almost wiped that animal from the face of the earth! What the eff?!

And don't get me started on their helmet with the buffalo logo! If their mascot is the Bills, then they are a team of Buffalo Bill Codys! Their team logo should therefore feature a guy with a gun, shooting a buffalo dead!

In the NFL mascot debate, nobody speaks up on behalf of the American bison (the name they prefer, by the way!), do they? Come on, people!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Also on my annoying mascot list, the Toronto NHL franchise. This team is always referred to as the Maple Leafs, but the plural of leaf is leaves! Come on, people!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 7:01 PM | Report abuse

LiberalMike I am going to take it that you are white. It never shock me how it always no big deal to you guys. If you think a name is no big deal go in the hood and call a brother the N word.

Posted by: jm220 | November 13, 2007 7:03 PM | Report abuse

And it can't be subjective like you seem to think. The "N" word and the "K" word are offensive not just because black people and Jewish people think so, but because a vast majority of our society thinks so. Can't say the same thing about "Redskin" because the vast majority of our society think of it as a team name, not as a description of American Indians.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 06:57 PM

And why do you think this is? Personally I believe it is because the vast majority of our society has been brought up to be aware of offensive words towards Blacks, Jews, Middle Easterners, Asians, etc because those races make up the majority of the minorities in the last 50+ years. Just like the vast majority of our society thinks of "Redskins" as a football team because that's the only use of the word that they have known for the last 50+ years and they have never come into close personal contact with true American Indian to know anything different.

I don't want you to think that I'm pushing for a name change because I'm not. I just think that those who are have an extremely valid arguement. On that note I would love for our name to be the Washington Indians. Wouldn't have to change anything except the name.

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Nice comic relief Nate even though you do have a good argument on the Bills there. Much needed. Thanks!

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Alan4, maybe I misread your comment above, but I think the big name signings predated Schottenheimer, actually started the year after Norval's playoff run, when Snyder signed Neon Deion and Mark Carrion and Bruce "They're Not Saying Bruce, They're Booing" Smith. We were just a few players away, thought Danny, so he brought in a bunch of guys who had been in the Pro Bowl... back in the mid-90s.

In any event, I agree that Schotty did more in one year to turn around the team on the field and in the sense of the salary cap than anyone else has done (since salary cap law was different in Gibbs 1.0). And I feel confident that we would have been a tough-nosed team, in the playoffs just about every year, if Schotty had been kept on and not fired because Danny had a hankering for the ol' ball coach.

Ugh. Just thinking about all that made my tummy hurt.

Hail.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Allright, for the team name debaters, lets just change the logo to a potato and keep the name Redskins.

We can follow in the footsteps of the Nebraska Cornhuskers.

Problem solved.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 13, 2007 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Allright, for the team name debaters, lets just change the logo to a potato and keep the name Redskins.

We can follow in the footsteps of the Nebraska Cornhuskers.

Problem solved.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 13, 2007 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Allright, for the team name debaters, lets just change the logo to a potato and keep the name Redskins.

We can follow in the footsteps of the Nebraska Cornhuskers.

Problem solved.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 13, 2007 7:16 PM | Report abuse

"Bruce "They're Not Saying Bruce, They're Booing" Smith."

LMGO!!!

Posted by: bigfish | November 13, 2007 7:16 PM | Report abuse

...sorry for the triplicate!

Posted by: Alan4 | November 13, 2007 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Nate, your right.. I forgot Noval came before Marty. But you assessment of Marty's single season is the same as mine--he was clearly turning the franchise around.

If you keep going to the dance every year, sooner or later you'll score (I hope that's not too crude for this crowd). I think Marty could have found playoff success here, just my gut feeling.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 13, 2007 7:23 PM | Report abuse

I just hope the poor fella doesn't have a pistol or a razer blade close by.

Posted by: drbatchelor | November 13, 2007 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Allright, for the team name debaters, lets just change the logo to a potato and keep the name Redskins.

We can follow in the footsteps of the Nebraska Cornhuskers.

Problem solved.

Posted by: Alan4 | November 13, 2007 07:16 PM

-- But what would the Redskinettes and the marching band wear? potato sacks?

Posted by: noone.from.tampa | November 13, 2007 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Oh dear... I didn't think I'd start seeing these until the Skins were undoubtedly out of playoff contention:

http://www.firejoegibbsnow.com/

Posted by: JustMe | November 13, 2007 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Here is a neat stat that i looked up:

Of the 22 starters on opening day we put on the field, 9 were drafted in round 1 and 7 were drafted in round 2. The total average draft position of those 9 is 10.5. So essentially 50% of our team is a 10.5 overall draft pick if you want to look at it that way.

2nd round average overall draft pick for starters was 49.2. That is out of the remaining 11 players almost two-thirds or 63% to be exact was drafted almost exactly in the middle of the 2nd round, again this averages.

2 others, Fletcher and Sellers were undrafted and we all know they are worth their weight in gold, well at least silver to us.

So why bring this up? My point is what else do our coaches need to make us a contending team. How many more 1st rounders do we need? I'm almost willing to bet that most other teams dont show these types of draft picks.

Posted by: dave197391 | November 13, 2007 8:07 PM | Report abuse

hmmm well there are quite a lot of great comments here so ill try and answer them all...

The Article: Well written and as a Redskins fan of 25 years or so i feel your pain. I personally dont watch the Skins because i feel the need to lose or follow losers. I do it out of loyalty to a team that ive been following for years. It really is only a matter of time until they get back on top. How long, who knows.... BTW the Skins are the only team i follow like that. Probably because I cant stand that much pain in one year!

The Curse: The idea of a curse is as ridiculous to me as is Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc... But then again with most of the world believing in organized religions and mythical figures deciding our fates im guessing that statement is going to just make people angry. But whatever... I said it anyway.

The Team: I dont believe in curses but i do believe in mass team mentalities. And ill pose this to you. If we as fans go into every game knowing, KNOWING, that our team raises its arses in the air and gives it up every 2nd half, what do you think the Redskins think of themselves? I know that if I was on that team id be preparing myself for defeat at every half....

The Name: I think that when this name was chosen it was because the name was meant to be a nod to a strong, proud and honorable race of people. Time has a way of changing things and when once a name was chosen as a symbol of honor it now seem like a symbol of racism. I mean really, do you think they chose to call the Redskins the Redskins to bash a whole race of people or because it simply was a strong sounding name? Lastly on this subject, I think that if someone is going to do something about this it should be Native Americans themselves. But the problem there is that even most of the Native Americans dont care! IF they did we'd hear a whole lot more about this than we do. Oh and BTW - If the Redskins were owned by a Native American and still called them the Redskins, NO ONE would be complaining about a thing. Oh and im not white...

The Problem: Team mentalities are the responsibility of the coaching staff and the play calling. Although I gotta admit, this last game had a little of everything: Really bad play calling and time management, an offense that cant score in the Redzone (not the coaches fault) and now one less WR to rely on, and a Defense that just plain rolled over in the second half. And know Sean Taylor is out indefinitly!

Not looking good for the rest of the seasons guys!

Posted by: michaelp | November 13, 2007 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps its the curse of "The Squire".

Posted by: saltynuts | November 13, 2007 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Dave97869797u89678689798,

How many of those players are actually playing

Posted by: squashmo | November 13, 2007 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of curses, and apropos to nothing else...

I've got this collection agency calling me because of a bill that is 5 months in arrears. Here's the thing, they never billed me in the first 4 months, AND I went to the company personally and paid the bill 19 days ago!

Can anyone suggest any recourse to this harassment, or at least suggest some dirty tricks I can play on them? I have already busted out some colorful language.

Posted by: SMACK1 | November 13, 2007 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Actually,

The team has been cursed for a long time. When they refused to change the name years ago, many native Americans put curses on the team.

This is no joke, it happened at one of the protests held outside the park.

I never believed in that stuff, but maybe...

Posted by: Redskinrex | November 13, 2007 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Curse? So why do you get to rout the Lions? What have lions done to anyone that they are not naturally programmed to do?

Posted by: SMACK1 | November 13, 2007 9:56 PM | Report abuse

1. Did anyone see Randle El on Comcast say that "sometimes this team plays not to lose instead of to win"? The players know...

2. I said at the beginning of training camp that Taylor was going to get hurt b/c he was so thin and he's always launching himself. The camera has caught him on several occaissions either get up very slowly or taking himself out of the game.

Posted by: nojunk4me | November 13, 2007 10:12 PM | Report abuse

The guest blog was typical liberal pretentious nonsense. As Mark Twain said: "use the right word; not its second cousin."

That entire piece of drivel was brilliantly summed up by jm220:

"...the Skins are like a paper cut. You know when you touch it you will experience pain but you do it anyways."

Why didn't that graduate-level egghead just say that and be done with it?

Jm22: you da' man, even though we argue 'bout Gibbs!

Posted by: Soups1 | November 13, 2007 10:18 PM | Report abuse

"On that note I would love for our name to be the Washington Indians."

You don't really think the P.C. police would let that fly do you? Indians are from India dude. Show some sensitivity for goodness sake.

"If you think a name is no big deal go in the hood and call a brother the N word."

jm220, If you read my comments you would see I distinguish the N word and other slurs from Redskins, which I don't believe was ever intended as a slur. More to your point, though, I don't think names are a big deal in general. Do you think MLK marched on Washington to stop name calling? Is that keeping our "eyes on the prize." As long as people are caught up fighting over labels the bigger picture goes unchanged (or gets worse). I think the N word is a lot less prevalent than it was 20 or 30 years ago wouldn't you agree? No question, that is a good thing, but is it a reflection of any real progress? How about education in most black neighborhoods? Is that up to snuff yet? Plenty of opportunity to go around now that labels aren't in the way? Of course not. So if you ask me, no, labels and name-calling aren't a big deal. There are much bigger fish to fry.

Also, this is way to intense a conversation. Wish this team would string some victories together so we'd have something fun to talk about.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Smacking myself in the back of the head for continuing this conversation, but here is some copyrighted material I stumbled upon whilst searching for any archived news on protests of the team's mascot held at the stadium. Like Ray, I remember some protests, but haven't yet found a story to link to...

From "Handbook of Sports and Media," Raney and Bryant, URL here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=sC3TGxZplK4C&pg=PA570&lpg=PA570&dq=redskin+protest+stadium&source=web&ots=qudZ-Rgjzz&sig=mjSOhhF1B0yNp0Ia2hbI1w2BVQ8#PPA569,M1

"The consistency in the responses of those who oppose the move by Native Americans and their supporters to rid the American landscape of [Native American stereotypes in general and Native American mascots in general] truly is remarkable.

"Whether it is in supposed neutral polls like the one commissioned by SI, the editorial pages of newspapers and magazines, or radio call-in talk shows, three rhetorical tools are used by mascot supporters to defend their position. To summarize, supporters of these mascots are wrong using three specific lines of logic: honor, trivialization, and claiming Indianness (see also Davis, 1993; King, 2003).

"According to those who wish to retain Native American mascots, claims of honoring Native Americans are to be accepted regardless of whether Native Americans wish to be honored or feel honored. Within this construction, Native Americans are wrong to be insulted, regardless of how objectionable the image may be to them. The mascot supporters who use this argument take the position that if they explain their belief that the images are indeed honoring Indians often enough, then any offended Indian will see it differently. The Washington NFL franchise has put forward perhaps the classic in this strain of logic. In the face of strong evidence that the word redskin is a pejorative and a negative racial reference to American Indians, the club owners argue that they have used the name in a positive non-racialized manner for so long that the term now has taken on a new and positive meaning. The franchise did not, however, put forward any examples of the use of the term redskin that were positive other than the references to their team. If, in fact, the word had taken on a positive meaning, there would be within literature, the press, and movies or television examples where the term was used in the positive manner. No examples were presented because none exist...

"Those who wish to retain Native American mascots often attempt to make Indians' concerns seem ridiculous by associating them with what the speaker believes are even more ridiculous concerns. Think about the straw arguments that are often thrown up. "Should we ban the Giants because tall people are offended?"... This is always from individuals who are trying to bolster their challenge to Native Americans' concerns about racial stereotypes. The invent their own theoretical concern or point to imagined concerns that they would find equally ridiculous. They do not identify any protest they have made at a stadium or to officials at the offending school. Indeed they can't because they haven't...

"Another offensive retort is from those who have never professed any Indian heritage until they need to ratify their position that Indian mascots are a good thing by claiming that they are Indian. Indians are not a monolithic group that thinks one way about anything. There are in fact some Indian people who like the name of the Cleveland baseball team or the imagery of the Washington football team. But many Indian people are seriously skeptical of those who defend Native American mascots and then state an Indian heritage that they possess although they can't name the tribes their ancestors are from."


Hail to the Redskins!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Only thing I can find is some mentions of an American Indian Movement protest staged during the Redskins-Bills Super Bowl. But like Ray, I seem to remember multiple protests over the years. Hmm...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 10:49 PM | Report abuse

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE2DC1639F935A15752C0A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

One nice piece from that Super Bowl week... (enjoying this more for the memory of that magical bandwagonesque season than for the mascot protests)

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Found this on a website called the language log (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002961.html)

I think that it is well established that redskin is taken by most people today to be disparaging. What is more interesting is whether it has always been so, as Harjo et al., as well as various others, claim. One interesting piece of evidence is the origin of the name Washington Redskins. In 1933, George Preston Marshall, the owner of the team, which was then located in Boston, renamed it the Boston Redskins in honor of the head coach, William "Lone Star" Dietz, an American Indian.³ When the team moved to Washington in 1937 it was renamed the Washington Redskins. George Marshall clearly did not consider the name disparaging.

³ Harjo et al. question this story of the origin of the name, but as the Circuit Court noted (p. 13, footnote 6), they provide no evidence whatever to the contrary and give no convincing reason to disbelieve the primary source, a newspaper article presenting the account by Marshall's grand-daughter. Some authors have also claimed that Dietz was not an American Indian. The articles cited, however, do not cite their sources, so it is difficult to evaluate their claims. It is, however, undisputed that Dietz presented himself as an American Indian and that George Marshall publicly presented him as one. George Marshall surely thought that Dietz was an American Indian, which is really what counts here.

Posted by: mbearden | November 13, 2007 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Oh Rigoo44, you really do parody yourself my man....your response to the Glog was text book bro!

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 11:15 PM | Report abuse

George Preston Marshall was a class A rascist by all accounts, so not really putting alotta stock in that......

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 11:17 PM | Report abuse

1. Call them the whiteskins and put JP Morgan face on the helmet

2. This team has talent and lacks coaching. I love Joe Gibbs, but he isn't the same Joe from 80's & 90's. The fire is not there and the team shows it in the 4th quarter.

3. The curse is because they left RFK for the soul-less confines of Fed-Ex Field at Redskins Stadium nee Jack Kent Cooke at whatever the fake name they came up with for Landover was...

Posted by: noone.from.tampa | November 13, 2007 11:22 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah Raljohn, soory I'm getting older the mind is becoming a steel sieve

Posted by: noone.from.tampa | November 13, 2007 11:23 PM | Report abuse

cHRisLaRRy, when does this week's F-list come out?

-Potato salad

Posted by: SMACK1 | November 13, 2007 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Bobby Kennedy: Say Pete how about some black players on the Redskins or lose your anti-trust exemption.

Pete Rozelle: I'll call George again but he ain't going to be happy about.

Posted by: noone.from.tampa | November 13, 2007 11:25 PM | Report abuse

F Romo
F Ken Hamlin
F Tank
F Jason Garrett
F Marion Barber
F Rigoo44
F Dan Snyder
F Ledell Betts
F Leonard Davis
F Emmitt Smith (old times sake)
F Terry Glen
F Whitten
F that Italian back up TE, Piasan or some siht
F Football
F the the NFC South and west
F the Giants
F Jeff Garcia
F that Frank gut that does all those lame impressions on TBS
F the dude who stole P Diddys dog
F the studio execs for making writers strike
F HBO for cancelling Deadwood
F Mon-Thur
F quitting weed
F diets
F unfunny RI posters

Hows that?

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 11:30 PM | Report abuse

"If, in fact, the word had taken on a positive meaning, there would be within literature, the press, and movies or television examples where the term was used in the positive manner. No examples were presented because none exist..."

Wow. They did a fine job of proving the team's point there. Redskins means the Washington NFL franchise. Thats all. How about they cite a modern perjorative use of the term. Oh...wait...they can't because its not used that way.

Also, did everyone like the argument in the article that its doesn't matter that many descendants of American Indians have no problem with the term because most of them cant even identify their ancestral tribe? HOW RIDICULOUS IS THAT? So if a black man, whose ancestors were slaves, can't identify what regionof Africa they came from, he has no say in whether the N word is offensive. Good luck with that line of reasoning.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 11:30 PM | Report abuse

Moss is still unsure whether he'll play this week. Can a bruised heel really be that bad? I mean Daniels separated his shoulder earlier this year and was still able to play the following week. Does Moss even want to play? What the hell, I don't profess to know about NFL injuries, but how long does a freaking bruise last?! I'm starting to seriously question his toughness. You get paid millions every year to play through injuries. Take a pain killer and earn your check this week!!

Posted by: ga8085 | November 13, 2007 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Moss is still unsure whether he'll play this week. Can a bruised heel really be that bad? I mean Daniels separated his shoulder earlier this year and was still able to play the following week. Does Moss even want to play? What the hell, I don't profess to know about NFL injuries, but how long does a freaking bruise last?! I'm starting to seriously question his toughness. You get paid millions every year to play through injuries. Take a pain killer and earn your check this week!!

Posted by: ga8085 | November 13, 2007 11:31 PM | Report abuse

F liberal mike for continuing this lame arguement/conversation/dead (crazy) horse and being mad boring about it!

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Can I take a pain killer please?

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 11:33 PM | Report abuse

mbearden,

"I think that it is well established that redskin is taken by most people today to be disparaging."

How do you figure? Who "established" that? I ask because that is the exact opposuite of what our courts have held when the redskins rights to thename have been challenged on the grounds it is offensive.

If you walked up to ten people downtown and said "hey look a redskin!" would they look around for Chris Cooley or Clinton Portis or do you think they'd scan the crowd for American Indians? Nobody uses the term to insult American Indians. Heck, nobody even uses it to REFER to American Indians. Its an issue created out of nothing.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 11:34 PM | Report abuse

CL,

If youlook up a few posts I tried to end it and NateinthePX saw fit to revive it.

It was some pretty impressive research Nate did finding that book though. No joke.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 11:36 PM | Report abuse

GA8085,
Not a doctor but I assume that a receiver has to put a lot of pressure on his heal to make sudden cuts and stops. I thought it was strange the first time I heard a player miss a game because of turf toe (how could a big burly football player not play because they hurt their toe) but it seems to happen often.

Posted by: mbearden | November 13, 2007 11:39 PM | Report abuse

Lets face it. We are routing for laundry. I am fanatical about routing for my laundry in BURGUNDY AND GOLD. Which is much better than blue and white with a f&%*&%ing star on it. Hate that laundry

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 13, 2007 11:40 PM | Report abuse

"routing for laundry"....that will be looking for work clothes in about 7 hours....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 11:42 PM | Report abuse

mbearden
Yeah, but bruises don't usually last that long from my experience. Maybe if he runs on his tip-toes it wouldnt be that bad? Or some extra padding on his heal? Or a cortisone shot? Or a hit of the crack pipe? He could do many things to alleviate the pain. Just get out there!!

Posted by: ga8085 | November 13, 2007 11:43 PM | Report abuse

Impressive was transcribing it all by hand, LiberalMike! Hah!

Again, smacking myself in the back of the head. F me for carrying on an argument that will result in a total of zero people changing their minds on this issue. And which sucks the life and energy out of the blog every time it comes up, which is approximately every seven weeks.

F dog theft. I hadn't even heard about that and now I have to go root through the archives to find out what the story is.

F talking to the woman who sits across from me at work, a Cowboys fan. She's going to be nice about it, but it's still going to be gloating if we lose this game.

F any outcome to the Cwoboys' season that doesn't include a spectacular, soul-crushing playoff defeat, ideally at the hands of a clearly inferior team, and involving at least one critical gaffe by their golden boy QB.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 11:45 PM | Report abuse

LiberalMike,
I wasn't making a commentary I was just passing on information. Personally I don't care what the name is except I have known them as the Redskins for over 40 years and am kind of use to it. I don't necessarily see it as derogatory but I am not Native American so I don't have the same perspective. Maybe they could change the name to the Washington Monuments, except I am sure someone would take offense to the logo on the helmet and its potential symbolism.
Of course it wouldn't surprise me if Danny doesn't rename the team to set up some kind of tie in with Six Flags.

Posted by: mbearden | November 13, 2007 11:47 PM | Report abuse

Masochist that I am, I just watched the game again on NFL Replay. Like I stated on Monday, in my opinion, the defense lost the game for us with stupid penalties. Far too many times the Eagles were able to keep the drive alive because our defensive penalties. Other observations...Yoder WAS definitely in....but we had no timeouts left so that can be blamed on the coaching staff.

Jason Campbell was excellent and Portis had a great game.

Posted by: Lisa | November 13, 2007 11:47 PM | Report abuse

HAsn't turf toe gone away for the most part, now that they switched to the new kind of turf that everybody loves?

What freaks me out is when you see guys skid on the new carpet and there is like a little cloud of black dust that kicks up -- really shows up in the HD and slo-mo -- which is like tiny particles of rubber or something. You know that crap is toxic. Instead of debilitating knee injuries we'll be reading about the stars of today needing lung transplants in like 20 years because they've ingested so much of that stuff.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 11:48 PM | Report abuse

My last argument in why American Indians should support our use of the name is, of course, the time honored truism: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Lets face it American Indians of the world, we can at least agree on this: WE HATE THE F-ING COWBOYS AND THEIR STUPID F-ING STAR!

HAIL!

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 13, 2007 11:49 PM | Report abuse

That is true, I haven't heard of a turf toe injury in quite some time.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 13, 2007 11:50 PM | Report abuse

GA8085,
Agree he should step it up and play if he can, however, as previously pointed out on the RI, the Redskin passing game seemed to work best the two games he did not play (Detriot and 2nd Philly).

Posted by: mbearden | November 13, 2007 11:50 PM | Report abuse

Lisa, and I hope this is the real Lisa, after watching the game again and seeing where the O is right now, how do you think we should come out against the Cowboys? Anything you want to see more or less of offensively?

With the Reaper out I expect we're going to have trouble on the D either way. SO to counter that... is it ball control for us on O, try to run Portis all day, or let Campbell take some shots early, some trickeration?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 13, 2007 11:52 PM | Report abuse

I have mousepad finger

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Lisa, love the assesment, brave girl for watching that game twice...........

The real curse was when JKC set up that horrible trust instead of just giving the team to his sons. Than the trust had to go to the highest bidder, sports team were a boom and John Cooke was priced out.

If the Cooke sons kept the team, we still might have sucked, but it would have been a less evil, fun, lovable sad sack loser kinda suck...and they would have hired real football people, so maybe we would have rebuilt....

Really were cursed by the Squire and thats no joke!

Posted by: chrislarry | November 13, 2007 11:57 PM | Report abuse

i'm with people who thought this glog was not talking about majority of the skins fans. i don't think we're cursed. dude that's chicago/bostonian thinking. F that!

we're WASHINGTONIANS! citizens of the most powerful city in the world! we don't have the inferiority complexes that bostonians, chicagoans, north westernerns do.

cursed? cursed? our only curse is that our owner hasn't gotten pubic hair yet when it comes to life in NFL.

this aint a curse. it's called a cyclical slump. look at the 9ers, girls, steelers, packers...are/were they cursed?

Posted by: dealer | November 13, 2007 11:58 PM | Report abuse

this post is indicative of the problem with new-aged redskins fans nowadays. the team tries to appease fans that don't know anything about football. im tired of complaints about opening up the offense. Why? so the fantasy geeks can at least get theirs if the skins lose? portis is like 2nd in the nfc in rushing. we can open up all day and be like the bengals.
Gibbs deserves all the time in the world to get this team right. The players play all out for him. We're back to playing competitive ball. He even made the fair-weather fans come back out in the open. I'm 25 myself and remember everything from the second Super Bowl on. The mid-90s were a diaster when we tried to become a team that you would assemble on a Madden franchise.
I love the Skins under Gibbs. We finally got some good young players that will be with us for a couple years. We're straight. We'll get back to dominating.
The Wizards tho. Love them too (shout out to Phil Chenier -my old boss). But the Curse of Lez Boulez is real! We shoulda won the East last year!

Posted by: ryjufox3 | November 13, 2007 11:58 PM | Report abuse

We are all creators in this universe.

If we tell the universe we want the Redskins to stop sucking, then that's what will happen, we will forever want the Redskins to stop sucking. So we must change our thoughts, and tell the Universe that the Redskins are winners.

It is the responsibility of everyone on this blog, and every Redskins fan, to think positively for the Redskins.
At 4pm Sunday, everyone, including YOU there at your laptop in your boxers, EVERYONE must think only positive thoughts about the Redskins winning the game against Dallas.

For some of us, it simply means to follow the George Costanza formula for success: "do the opposite"
If you always watch the game and think negative thoughts while eating a tuna sandwich on white toast, then you MUST now watch the game and think POSITIVE thoughts while eating a chicken salad sandwich on rye bread.

Posted by: jgarrisn | November 13, 2007 11:58 PM | Report abuse

Hey guys, I need to chime in on this waste of space.

Where should I start? JLaC - I know you don't like the Skins, but putting a fair weather fan's thesis on as a post. This guy isn't a deep thinker, he is a QUITTER. Let me repeat that, Q-U-I-T-T-E-R....

1st, you know he was a SJK when he said he became a fan AFTER the last superbowl. WTF is that about? I was a fan before I could remember. My memories were vague, but I remember. I was 11 when we last won the SB, and you guys know the rest..

2nd, We are not the Cubs. The Cubs haven't won in 90+ years. We won 3 SBs and there's only been 41 SBs....

3rd, if Redskins are your religion, than you have a freakin problem...

4th, I qoute his 1st part of his passage,
"I knew. So too did the four fellow Redskins fans next to me. As soon as Sean Taylor went out, we knew. Sure the Redskins had the lead. Sure the offense had looked better than it had in weeks. These things didn't matter. We knew the Eagles would win.

And we were right.
"

Vincent, Let me tell you a story about this one misty monday night in Dallas 2 years ago. My Redskins were down 13 - 0 latein the 4th QTR. All the bandwagoners and haters were sleeping knowing the Redskins would not comeback. That's when a legend was born and only the real fans witnessed it. Where were you that night???

5th, You are exactly what Dan Snyder wants, a band wagoner w/ $$$ who is excited only in the offseason and dosen't care if we ever become the once winning tradition that we were. Sad.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 13, 2007 11:59 PM | Report abuse

But with Thrash probably out, we'll need him for depth's sake. I wish my last name was Thrash, or Smash.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 13, 2007 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Nate, the gameplan for this game was GREAT (although we lost). CP was rushing well...Jason was taking chances downfield (and converting most of his passes) and also completing shorter passes. He looked in control and pretty darn fabulous (until the last few minutes of the game when everything broke down). It just makes me sick seeing how good our offense looked in a losing effort. After the Reaper went out we were toast.

Are teams rushing on the Cowboys? I think we are going to have to take shots down field all day long. Since we are doomed anyway, why not throw caution to the winds and just come out slinging?

Posted by: Lisa | November 14, 2007 12:00 AM | Report abuse

A legend was born? I wouldn't call Mark Brunell a legend. Who else could you possibly be talking about? LOL

Posted by: ga8085 | November 14, 2007 12:01 AM | Report abuse

4th Floor, dealer, chris Larry and Lisa mixing it up, and a bunch of new folks (or new names I don't yet recognize) in the mix as well! Love it!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Really 4th? I think that cat was just being overly dramatic for comedic effect....

He admitted he was irrational...

and me, I will take football over religion any time, any day

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 12:03 AM | Report abuse

GA - right!

Maybe I should have said a legendary moment unfolded?

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 14, 2007 12:04 AM | Report abuse

Personally I dug ole Vincent's Glog....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 12:05 AM | Report abuse

hey, that dallas game is still getting brunello local ad money. i couldn't belee it. a third string QB pitching something on local teevee. just last night.

Posted by: dealer | November 14, 2007 12:05 AM | Report abuse

I was so drunk by the end of that game that I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Boston sports bar, was up there for a conference. I'm not proud I was in that condition, but it was a horrible game for us until the very end, and there was a dude buying drinks all night for three other Skins fans on his corporate card or something. But still, fighting through the fog to see those two amazing TDs... that was a great moment!

That was the day the Legend of Ron Burgundy was born, right?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 12:06 AM | Report abuse

CL - I use to too, but I dicovered DVR! So I can go to church and come home and watch the game from the begining.....

F Sarcasim. I don't read it to well. This guy post sucks. Its Dallas week....

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 14, 2007 12:06 AM | Report abuse

That MNF Moss game is one of my all time favorite sports highs/memories experiences....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 12:08 AM | Report abuse

I liked the glog as well. Best one ever, IMO. Funny and weird and thought provoking. Most of all, original. And look, it got people talking.

LISA, I'm with you, I want to see us taking some shots. I also want to see Portis, Portis and more Portis. I'm not afeared of these Cowboys.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 12:08 AM | Report abuse

I am afraid of the cowboys......have zilch positive vibes about this week....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 12:10 AM | Report abuse

off to bed, goodnight hukkas!

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 12:11 AM | Report abuse

this post is indicative of the problem with new-aged redskins fans nowadays. the team tries to appease fans that don't know anything about football. im tired of complaints about opening up the offense. Why? so the fantasy geeks can at least get theirs if the skins lose? portis is like 2nd in the nfc in rushing. we can open up all day and be like the bengals.
Gibbs deserves all the time in the world to get this team right. The players play all out for him. We're back to playing competitive ball. He even made the fair-weather fans come back out in the open. I'm 25 myself and remember everything from the second Super Bowl on. The mid-90s were a diaster when we tried to become a team that you would assemble on a Madden franchise.
I love the Skins under Gibbs. We finally got some good young players that will be with us for a couple years. We're straight. We'll get back to dominating.
The Wizards tho. Love them too (shout out to Phil Chenier -my old boss). But the Curse of Lez Boulez is real! We shoulda won the East last year!

Posted by: ryjufox3 | November 13, 2007 11:58 PM

Can I have what you're smoking? You've got to be kidding me. He's had four years now and makes mistakes like a rookie coach. I could write ten paragraphs about Gibbs screw ups, but frankly I'm tired of typing the same thing every time. Where is this land of fantasy and make believe that you reside in?

Posted by: ga8085 | November 14, 2007 12:12 AM | Report abuse

this glog lost all of its credibility in the first para. "we all knew were going to lose" couple that with the fact that he's a grad student plus he's been a fan since the last superbowl.

holy shti! i just had an epihony. VINCENT!!!!!! STOP BEING A SKINS FAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'll give you a dollar! please! YOU ARE THE CURSE!

Posted by: dealer | November 14, 2007 12:13 AM | Report abuse

Good one dealer....

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 14, 2007 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Responding to above comment GA8085

A bruised heal, like this blog after a loss, can be that bad.

I just did it 5 weeks ago and I still can not play soccer. But I had bad shoes on after I just got over another foot injury. Made a cut on turf and blame. I don't know how you get that on grass with good shoes on. I looked it up in the interweb and only rest will heal it. (he he)

BTW: CP is good now (he was hurt idiots, you know who you are)

BTW: Are O line more healthy and with time is good again, see last two games, and JC is still alive (good coaching?).

Posted by: mul | November 14, 2007 12:15 AM | Report abuse

I remember that Dallas game really well. Of all things, my cable went out that day. I called Comcast and they told me they would be out in a few days. In tears, I begged them to come that very day...said I would even PAY them. They still said "no." I then told Comcast it was the Cowboys/Skins game and that I had to have my cable. At this time, they determined I was a nut job and basically hung up on me.

I had the option of going to the bar across the street by myself or calling a guy I barely knew to see if I could watch the game with him. He was a strange guy but I went to his place. As you all know the game was tragic. My "date" kept yelling "Throw it deep to Moss." Guess Brunell heard him as he did it twice. What a wonderful evening. Never saw the guy again.

Posted by: Lisa | November 14, 2007 12:15 AM | Report abuse

mul
Well that just sucks. So you're just as injury prone as Moss huh. I kid, I kid...

Posted by: ga8085 | November 14, 2007 12:18 AM | Report abuse

lisa, you're such a user! LOL! loved the story. hadn't heard it before. you're keeping shtuff from us.
wait a sec...i wonder if that dude is up here blogging since he was a skins fan too....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm who could it be!?!

Posted by: dealer | November 14, 2007 12:20 AM | Report abuse

And what topped that night off was that Dallas was inducting Aikmen/Irvin/Emmit in their Ring of Honor....

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 14, 2007 12:21 AM | Report abuse

thanks 4th! here i was blaming the loss on myself cuz i couldn't concentrate cuz i was feeding two babies...

Posted by: dealer | November 14, 2007 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Moss has been injury prone before he even came to the Redskins. It was Moss's last year of his rookie contract (when we traded for him) and the Jets were looking to unload him because he could never stay healthy consistently.

Last year Gibbs stated, when Moss was injured then, that he is more like a track runner instead of a football player and you have to treat track runners differently when they are injured.

Sadly, he is right....

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 14, 2007 12:26 AM | Report abuse

I am 33 so you have to give me some slack. But after 25 I started getting injured reguarly playing soccer and once even swing dancing. I don't get pulls and cramps but I don't have the mussels pros have.

I do need a trainer.

The fans in Ravens land are as sick as the ones down here. They want new trainers too.

Posted by: mul | November 14, 2007 12:31 AM | Report abuse

Damn it, I just typed a bunch of stuff that didn't even show up. Like Joe Gibbs and the Skins after the third quarter, I'm outta here.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 14, 2007 12:32 AM | Report abuse

SKINNIES I DONT NEED TOO DO TO MUCH CUZ YOU CLOWNS ADMIT IT TO YURSELFS THAT YOU SUCK BUT HERE GOES SOME BOOHOO BOXS ANYWAY HEHEHEHEHE

Posted by: BOOFER | November 14, 2007 12:50 AM | Report abuse

POSTED 4:38 p.m. EST; UPDATED 5:05 p.m. EST, November 13, 2007

TRAINER WITH NFL CONNECTIONS PLEADS GUILTY TO STEROIDS CHARGES

A North Texas personal trainer with supposed connections to members of the Cowboys and the Falcons has pleaded guilty to charges of possessing anabolic steroids, with intent to distribute.

Under the deal, David Jacobs will receive a sentence of three years' probation in exchange for spilling the beans to prosecutors about the distribution of illegal steroids.

In October 2005, federal agents seized 10,000 units of steroids from Jacobs' house. Jacobs has admitted to distributing 40,000 units of steroids and several thousand units of Human Growth Hormone.

Cowboys spokesman Rich Dalrymple told KTVT-TV that no players have worked with Jacobs, and that the organization had no knowledge of the charges. The Falcons said the same thing.

Jacobs claims on the web site of his supplement company that he has offered guidance to members of the Cowboys and the Falcons.

via pft......

Posted by: BOOFER | November 14, 2007 1:26 AM | Report abuse

Hey all,

What a good discussion you guys carried on over the last couple of hours. bigfish, nate, liberal mike and others, you've done a great job of trying to sort out the mascot issue.

I just want to make one last point, which is that 'redskin', contrary to what liberalmike argues, IS a slur, and a well documented one. the word was originally used to describe native american scalps and the bounty one could collect from the government for turning them in. 'redskin' was NOT a term randomly invented, in 193-whatever, to HONOR native americans. seriously, do you think ANYONE wanted to honor native americans, much less ANY minority in the 30s? tell that to me with a straight face especially when the Redskins were the last franchise in the NFL to desegregate, they did so by federal court order only, and TEN YEARS after the rest of the league. with that kind of history behind both the franchise and the word redskin, i think there's a clear pattern of racial bias. it's unpleasant and makes us uncomfortable, but we shouldn't ignore it.

i love nate's idea of the washington warriors, though that's similar to golden state no? in any event, it would be fun for the whole area to come up with another name. everyone said the 'wizards' was a terrible name but look, as soon as the name changed the les boulez shook off a miserable 20-some year stretch of mediocrity and are now a playoff perennial. the same could hold for the much maligned skinz.

and the point liberalmike made about never calling a roomful of native americans 'redskins' was a great one, just not for the reason he gave. i don't think he would call them a 'redskin' because he knows he would probably get his a** beat.

we don't need to write anymore on this, but i would suggest that defenders of the word 'redskin' do some research before they arbitrarily and quite ignorantly proclaim there are no racist connotations associated with the word.

for any of you guys interested in doing some research, the following are useful....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/16/opinion/main1901662.shtml

http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_tol.jsp?id=1047

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1753321.stm

Posted by: greerdoggy | November 14, 2007 1:48 AM | Report abuse

Moss has been injury prone before he even came to the Redskins. It was Moss's last year of his rookie contract (when we traded for him) and the Jets were looking to unload him because he could never stay healthy consistently.

Last year Gibbs stated, when Moss was injured then, that he is more like a track runner instead of a football player and you have to treat track runners differently when they are injured.

Sadly, he is right....

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 14, 2007 12:26 AM

I hope all is well with you 4th. No question you have to treat them differently.

Posted by: jm220 | November 14, 2007 7:04 AM | Report abuse

How is being a grad student a bad thing again?

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 8:08 AM | Report abuse

vincent, i am 27 and became a redskins fan the same year as you.

your posting describes my feelings about this team so precisely that i almost feel we are soulmates.

i am almost inclined to suggest a meeting in person, but let's face it, there is at least a 75% chance that you are actually a creepy weirdo and would stare at me disturbingly.

even if that is true, i appreciate and empathize with your perspective.

Posted by: bcarothers | November 14, 2007 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Dont get mad guys but my kool-aide is out and we all know who the 2nd best team in the NFL is according to the experts so im jumping on that bandwagon and changing my post name.Sometimes i will drink kool-aide and go back to my Spin world thats just my multiple personalitys.Americas team is kicking butt.How Bout Them Cowboys!

Posted by: jm220luvscowboys | November 14, 2007 9:17 AM | Report abuse

If there was only a way that Joe could be in the locker room and on the practice field, just not the man calling gameday anymore. If snyder could do his old custom positions move and make gibbs team president and coaching advisor or somthing.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 14, 2007 9:40 AM | Report abuse

And to the poster about the name and stuff. Snyder said he will not change the name. So unless they are forced to do it, it won't happen. Personally I say if they change it they should go with the Powhatan, a local indian tribe. As long as they keep the logo. The thing I cant stand is people saying that the logo is racist, they are tards.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 14, 2007 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Wow, that 12:50am post was either the real BOOFER or someone doing an excellent impersonation. I have missed BOOFER, and I know I'm not alone in that. Those were happier times, last year up here. Lots of goofy good times.

Maybe the difference was the Skins' season went down the crapper early on, so we all relaxed a little bit and just rode the wave of mediocrity, with gallows humor and hope for the future and like such as. This season we've all been so tense because we so badly wanted to believe -- still want to believe! -- that this team can Do Something right now.

Anyway it's Wednesday of Dallas week and I want to make sure everyone reads cHris Larry's F List above to get properly fired up. Hoping for a real dogfight on Sunday afternoon, that we can be there at the end and bloody some Cowboy noses along the way.

HAIL!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Yes Nate last year was some fun times. It's hard for me to get fired up when the Reaper is out. I was looking foward to some lust for mayhem on T.O.

Posted by: jm220 | November 14, 2007 10:09 AM | Report abuse

guys.... I hear ya... don't forget about Landry though... Laron can drop the hammer on TO as well... I'm sure he'll be looking to pick up any slack with Taylor being out...

I hope they send Landry at Romo a couple times early in the game to send a message, but I'm wondering if they will be reluctant to do that with Taylor out...

Posted by: ericnelson77 | November 14, 2007 10:18 AM | Report abuse

greerdoggy,

"I just want to make one last point, which is that 'redskin', contrary to what liberalmike argues, IS a slur, and a well documented one. the word was originally used to describe native american scalps and the bounty one could collect from the government for turning them in."

Where is it "well documented." What you cited is a bunch of statements by activists and editorialists that the term was used to describe scalps, but none of them cite their sources for this information. We're just left to take their word for it. Also, contrary to your statement, none of them even claim the the scalp was the "original" use of the word.

To make you feel better, I'll cite an actual source on etymology, the Oxford English Dictionary:

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "the term 'redskin' came from the reddish skin color of some Native Americans, as in the terms red Indian and red man, and the OED cites instances of its usage in English dating back to the 17th century (and cites a use of red in reference to skin color from 1587)."

Our courts don't hate American Indians. There are several reasons these claims have been rejected again, and again, and again. These reasons include: (1) the activists have no support for their claims that this was ever a slur and (2) more importantly no support for their claim that it now has any perjorative meaning.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 10:31 AM | Report abuse

I usually am disappointed by the quality of the guest blogs here, but that was great, very well-written guest blog. Jason, maybe you can learn a thing or two from Vincent when it comes to writing.

Posted by: stoud | November 14, 2007 10:34 AM | Report abuse

E in VB, agreed that it would be great to see Landry get in there early to introduce himself to Romo. Just to plant the idea that on any given play, Romo could get clobbered from any direction. Even if that's not entirely true.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 10:37 AM | Report abuse

This liberalmike guy really pisses me off. I know, take a ticket and get in line right, LiberalMike?

Posted by: RedDMV | November 14, 2007 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Nate... I say they have to do it, even though its risky! First offensive series for the girls... send him at him... did you see how clemens limped off the field following Landry's shtick in the Jets game! They got to let it ride on Sunday and they should be fired up as all hell!

Posted by: ericnelson77 | November 14, 2007 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Now I understand what you tried to say to me
How you suffered for your sanity
How you tried to set them free
They would not listen, they did not know how
Perhaps, they'll listen now

Posted by: bangkokben | November 14, 2007 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Why do you call yourself LiberalMike when your posts don't really point to you being a liberal?

Posted by: cmecyclist | November 14, 2007 11:00 AM | Report abuse

RedDMV,

You know it, man.

BEAT DALLAS!!

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 11:00 AM | Report abuse

cmecyclist,

A lot of people say that. I'm liberal in terms of government and fiscal policy and philosophy. I'm pro choice, pro labor, and I have no problem with paying more in taxes because I make more money. It's just that I'm not as crazy about political correctness as many Democrats (and Republicans) are. To me, it's just a distraction from real issues.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 11:05 AM | Report abuse

OK, I refuse to talk about the name that we do not speak of. From now on I'm making a serious effort to just refer to them as Skins. But if you don't think the term is bigotry in nature, I suggest you define a couple of words:

1)Redskin
2)Offensive
3)Racial
4)Slur
5)Delusional

Posted by: RedDMV | November 14, 2007 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Great blog.

Posted by: jsa80 | November 14, 2007 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Not to become totally disliked but 'Redskin' historically was used chiefly by the British. This was probably because the British Empire was well aware of the existence of actual people from India.

What's important however is today's connotations (gay no longer has its original meaning.) Due to today's cultural sensitivity and the fact that it has been used as slur - similar to 'women drivers' blah blah blah or those Albanians yada yada yada - perhaps it's best to let the name go. Although I'm in favor of letting hang around until our culture evolves past its current hyper-sensitivity toward words that refer to a people's skin.

Posted by: bangkokben | November 14, 2007 11:15 AM | Report abuse

RedDMV
Those that do injustice never see it as injustice. This is the reason why many around the world have a dislike for America.

Posted by: jm220 | November 14, 2007 11:18 AM | Report abuse

RC, if you're out there, Mort is reporting that Ricky Willaims is going to be reinstated. Good news for you guys, although Chatman(sp) had a really good game for you guys last weekend. What are your thoughts on Beck? Any chance you'll see him any time soon?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 14, 2007 11:19 AM | Report abuse

1) Redskin - a member of the D.C. NFL team
2) Offensive - (1) something considered by society as a whole (and not by a small group of activists) to be perjorative or insulting in nature; (2) a football play not involving the defense or special teams
3) Racial - of or having to do with race
4) Slur - a term intended to disparage or insult
5) Delusional - See RedDMV

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 11:19 AM | Report abuse

This blog is gay!

Posted by: chelseatest | November 14, 2007 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Those were happier times, last year up here. Lots of goofy good times.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 10:03 AM

Man, Nate, you sound like and old man (things were better in my day).

Are you going to tell us how you walked uphill (both ways) to school in ten feet of snow?

Posted by: CBT | November 14, 2007 11:21 AM | Report abuse

bangkokben,

Honest question - who's using "Redskin" as a slur now?

"Women drivers" I hear all the time. Any time I hear Redskin its a reference to football, not an insult to an American Indian.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Liberal Mike, good point. On the otherhand negro was not used as a slur but if you used it 15 years ago, it was offensive. Then it's used again. Then it's not because it's insensitive. So I would say that if Redskin was used in any way other than to refer to the football team, it would be deened insensitive.

One love
One blood
One life
You got to do what you should
One life
With each other
Sisters
Brothers
One life
But we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other

Posted by: bangkokben | November 14, 2007 11:26 AM | Report abuse

My wife used to work alongside the various tribes here in Virginia as they strove to get Federal recognition, and their views on the name were split. Some wore Skins gear as a sense of pride, some were offended by it.

They real issue is that these people do not necessarily have the POWER($$) or VOICE($$) to sway the court of public opinion. Their people have been massacred, scattered, had their history erased, and when that happens to you it's mighty hard to band together and fight for the issues that are important to your people, much less the offensive name of a pro football team.

Posted by: pulldownclaw | November 14, 2007 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Good points pulldownclaw.

Posted by: jm220 | November 14, 2007 11:38 AM | Report abuse

pulldownclaw, I agree totally. Well said.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 14, 2007 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Here is some good news for you Redcoat

Beck promoted to Dolphins starter
Rookie will take over for Lemon for Philadelphia game

Posted by: jm220 | November 14, 2007 11:48 AM | Report abuse

CBT, I am a crotchety old man! Back when I was a young whippersnapper like yourself, I never sassed my elders, because I knew I'd get a good hiding, and I'd deserve it, by golly!

And back in olden times we did blog uphill both ways, in ten feet of snow! Just take a look at the archives -- you can see how doggone cold and difficult it was back then! But we persevered in the face of that adversity because we love this team, and we love this blog!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Stop whining and take it like a man. We all want to go 16-0. Losses like Sundays hurt all faithfull fans, but we need to learn rom this and move on, not some damn pity party. Grow up

Posted by: tdskinz | November 14, 2007 12:00 PM | Report abuse

pulldownclaw,

No question American Indians are not a powerful group especially on the east coast. In some areas out west they are a very powerful lobbying group. Also, in upstate New York, where their casinos give them all the $$ they need to say whatever they want.

Still, did you ever think that the "court of public opinion" might not see the term as offensive because IT ACTUALLY ISN'T OFFENSIVE and not because they haven seen enough TV ads to convince them its offensive?

Also, if a team name that annoys them is the biggest challenge facing American Indians, I'd say they're doing pretty well as a group. As it is, I heard a report on NPR recently about the epidemic of alcoholism, domestic violence, and pedophilia on Indian Reservations and how it is believed to dwarf the rate of such tragedies in general society. Maybe their efforts could be better spent on those issues?

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 12:10 PM | Report abuse

I wanted to resist posting since I didnt after we lost to NE, and then won against the Jets... but I am afraid we have zero chance to win this weekend.

So, Flag on the Play... against Double G or whoever didnot suggest we double Westbrook every time he comes out of the back field. Bracket him... MCNAbb wont run for that many TD's and catches like Browns happen once a game. But Westbrookj does this constantly and we did not shut him down.\

2nd flag on the play... for the team nickname. You know, I could care less either way. Someone finds it offensive, change it. I wont stop rooting for the Potomac Basin Indigenous Peoples no matter the name.

Nickname alternatives (no particular order)

1) Generals - Makes sense for our Military
2) Warthogs - An homage to the military plane and our great O line. Nice plane on the helmet, instead of skins peeps call them the hogs, most importantly the hogettes dont have to change a thing
3) Senators - the roman kind, like the Ottawa NHL team mascot
4) Warriors - closest thing to the current
5) Outlaws - cause we battle the cowboys, and the inherent lawlessness of our elected officials

Pulldown, nice pull.

Im done

F Dallas

Posted by: Zebraskins | November 14, 2007 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and I forgot Natives

more historicxally accurate and PC term to the redskins

Posted by: Zebraskins | November 14, 2007 12:11 PM | Report abuse

To defeat Redskins - stop the run

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/111407dnspogoose.17b243.html

I think JC will have something to say about this....

Posted by: ericnelson77 | November 14, 2007 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Is there any REDSKIN news besides this same ol' blah-blah about the team's name? This is Dallas week, come on bloggers!!!

'Skins by 20!!!!

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 12:14 PM | Report abuse

CODE BLUE!! CODE BLUE!! I think the blog is dead!!

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Can this name conversation please end for the love eof everything sweet and good...(like munchkins from dunkin donuts)!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 12:28 PM | Report abuse

. Also, in upstate New York, where their casinos give them all the $$ they need to say whatever they want.

I really hope you don't believe that. And you last statement no make that the whole post cause me to lose all respect for you.

Posted by: jm220 | November 14, 2007 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I agree with the post above. We should open up everything for this game. Play loose on offense, take a bunch of deep shots and blitz our stones off. There's no reason to hold anything back, nor to play conservatively. I'm sure we're heavy underdogs, so it's time to man up and play aggressive on both sides of the ball. We have absolutely nothing to lose.

Lastly, for LMike, you should seriously reexamine your logic when you say "offensive = something considered by society as a whole (and not by a small group of activists) to be perjorative or insulting in nature". By this, um, logic, then not a single slur could ever have been taken to be offensive, because the MAJORITY (white) of society didn't find any of the derogatory words they used to describe African-Americans, Asians, Hispanics offensive. This majority nonsense leads to a sheep mentality where the only time anything can be considered derogatory is when the people happily USING the slur one day decide that it is indeed a slur. Quite a nice arrangement!

The bottom line is, for a people so utterly brutalized by the US government, I think we owe it to them to not-be-a-total-d**k and humiliate them to that extra degree by turning them into, of all things, a sports mascot. the message is, 'hey chief, we're going to wipe your people off the face of the map, push you to the fringes of society, and then turn your people into a cartoon for us to drunkenly cheer on Sundays." America, F*** Yeah!

No, this isn't the most important problem in the world, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it. And yes, native americans struggle with a number of terrible problems right now. Can you take a guess as to the origin of those sad facts? and it's not their problem, it's our problem because they're americans.

Posted by: greerdoggy | November 14, 2007 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Not to mention its Conn, not NY.....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 12:29 PM | Report abuse

NC has a wonderful Harrah's CHEROKEE casino over near Asheville. Makes me feel good gambling there--helping the tribe survive.

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 12:34 PM | Report abuse

F PC mumbo-jumbo

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Plano trainer says he supplied Cowboys players with steroids

No names, evidence given; organization says man not affiliated with team


12:31 AM CST on Wednesday, November 14, 2007
By JASON TRAHAN / The Dallas Morning News
jtrahan@dallasnews.com

A man who pleaded guilty Tuesday to possession of illegal steroids has given federal authorities the names of former and current Dallas Cowboys players who he says he supplied with performance-enhancing drugs, according to sources familiar with the investigation.

David Jacobs, 35, has not publicly named any of the players he says he has supplied with drugs. None of his claims has been publicly verified, and no evidence has been released related to the involvement of the athletes.

Federal investigators plan to use the information supplied by the personal trainer, who also owns a nutritional supplement store in Plano, in an ongoing nationwide effort to crack down on underground steroid providers and users.

The NFL, the Cowboys organization and football players contacted Tuesday say they know nothing of Mr. Jacobs.

"We are one of the hottest things out there, so we are going to get mentioned if somebody robs a McDonald's," said Cowboys linebacker Bradie James, one of several players who discussed the buzz around the case with reporters Tuesday.

"We don't know this individual," Cowboys spokesman Rich Dalrymple said of Mr. Jacobs. "He has never been affiliated with this organization, and we have just been made aware of this situation yesterday."

Mr. Jacobs was indicted in May by a grand jury working out of the Eastern District of Texas. Prosecutors have since revised that indictment to include six other people who they say conspired to illegally distribute steroids.

Posted by: dave197391 | November 14, 2007 12:35 PM | Report abuse

OK spot test all cowboys, urine, blood, stool, hair samples, the inside flap of their jock strap....

Get it tested, announce list of suspensions friday.

My wish list:

Tony Romo
Whitten
TO
Barber
Ware
Hamlin
Williams
L. Davis
both kickers

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 12:41 PM | Report abuse

They real issue is that these people do not necessarily have the POWER($$) or VOICE($$) to sway the court of public opinion. Their people have been massacred, scattered, had their history erased, and when that happens to you it's mighty hard to band together and fight for the issues that are important to your people, much less the offensive name of a pro football team.

Posted by: pulldownclaw | November 14, 2007 11:36 AM

Time for a little history lesson, pulldownclaw. Lest us forget, the various tribes did exactly what you accuse us of. They murdered, raped, kidnapped, massacred, and scattered other tribes all across this country long before the white man came along. It was all an unfortunate chapter, but we move on. Their way of life wasn't better, just different. It's the world history of the conqueror and the conquered. The conquered assimilate or die.

In Browning, Montana, the Blackfeet Nation home, the name of their high school team is the Browning Indians. And they're proud of it. The only reason Native Americans are complaining is that they don't want their proud heritage associated with this bunch of 2nd half chokers led by a dotty old coach who can't figure out whether to call a timeout or go to lunch!

Posted by: Soups1 | November 14, 2007 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I can always count on Rigoo44 to come along and be a complete D-bag...

With so many variables in life, I like to count on his consistency!

Thanks Rigoo44!

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Wow Redcoat,

Possible progress for you guys. I just heard on the radio that Beck gets the start in Philly this weekend.

Posted by: JustMe | November 14, 2007 1:03 PM | Report abuse

"et tu, sween? I didn't think you'd be that fickle over Betts. One fumble and you're done with him? After the way he played for us last year?

In six years with the 'Skins he's run the ball 623 times, fumbled eight times, and the 'Skins recovered two of them. So, you have less than one lost fumble per one hundred carries and you'd off him for a fifth round pig in a poke. Why do you believe that the pig in the poke will be better than Betts?

And, how was it up there pounding them down with Jasno? Did he pay, or did you?"

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 13, 2007 05:20 PM

I've never been pro-Betts ... more like "eh, OK for #2 given the low cost contract as long as Portis remains the man." I'm not jumping on THAT fumbles happen, but its about WHEN. Kind of like a FG kicker ... he's allowed to miss once and a while, just not in clutch situations. I acknowledge Betts had a ton of yards after Portis went down, but what did those yards produce? Wins? Pffpfpfh. Intersperse the fumbles into those yards (like what happened) and you have garbage yards ... not wins.

I think it was pay as we go w/Jasno (and come to think of it, I think he ordered the last two rounds, so I think I'm in the red).

Any news re: Baby in the PDX yet?

Posted by: dcsween | November 14, 2007 1:05 PM | Report abuse

new post already... come one Jasno....

Snap out of it!

Or maybe the probablem is SOS with this team... same lapses game after game.

this sunday will be huge and you biatches better be ready!

Posted by: ericnelson77 | November 14, 2007 1:06 PM | Report abuse

registration killed this blog.

dallas week and look at the topics of discussion.

f this.

Posted by: chelseatest | November 14, 2007 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Pulling out hammer. Double smack to the back of your damn head Rigoo44. I suggest you go back and study the history.

Sorry chelseatest without the Reaper being in the game it's hard for me to get excited about this game. Even if we had lost it would have been watching T.O. drop everything because he was looking for the Reaper.

Posted by: jm220 | November 14, 2007 1:10 PM | Report abuse

For Redcoat--Ricky W to return???

Ricky Williams Reinstated, Dolphins Get 2-week Roster Exemption


Nov 14, 12:58 PM (ET)

By STEVEN WINE
DAVIE, Fla. (AP) - Ricky Williams' suspension ended after more than 18 months Wednesday when he was reinstated by the NFL. Still unclear is whether the Miami Dolphins want him back.

The 2002 league rushing champion, who has played in only 12 games since the start of the 2004 season, was in the Canadian Football League last season and applied for reinstatement Oct. 1.

He was suspended last year after violating the league's drug policy for the fourth time and tested positive again for marijuana in April, delaying his return through the first half of this season.

Williams remains under contract with the Dolphins. But first-year coach Cam Cameron, whose team is 0-9, has given no indication he wants Williams.

The Dolphins had no immediate comment on Williams' reinstatement.

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Smack to back of JM220's head for resorting to violence just because someone has a different opinion that him. Get over yourself.

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I really hopes it works out for Ricky and wherever he plays they set up a support system for him.

Posted by: jm220 | November 14, 2007 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking we should have a new post in approx an hour... It will probably be a practice update.... Let me Guess...

Marcus - Limited in practice.
Moss - Not in pads... nada...
Smoot - Doing individual stuff resting the hammy...

Posted by: EinVB | November 14, 2007 1:21 PM | Report abuse

NCICURN you got to be joking right? The smack is all in fun my friend. I will just take it that you are new and did realize it. When I turn to the dark side and get violent I do more than just smack somone.

Posted by: jm220 | November 14, 2007 1:21 PM | Report abuse

In focus: Jason Campbell, Redskins QB

11:28 PM CST on Tuesday, November 13, 2007

Staff Writer Calvin Watkins analyzes a key Cowboys matchup for Week 11

Why him?
He's a good athlete who is learning the NFL game. He has good size (6-6, 233 pounds) for a quarterback so knocking him down won't bother him. He's completed 59 percent of his passes and is 19th in the NFL with a 79.9 passer rating.

How he does it
Campbell's arm allows him to get the ball down the field. He is good at short to intermediate throws that can set up shorter down and distance situations for the offense. If Campbell gets out of the pocket, he can run downfield because he has good speed and can run through defensive backs. Campbell has been sacked 14 times. By comparison, Tony Romo has been sacked 13 times.

How to stop him
He's inconsistent. Campbell, who is surrounded by talented players, has 14 career starts. The play-calling has been conservative this season because of his inexperience. Pressure on Campbell will disturb him and make him force throws into coverage. A mixture of coverages confuses him.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/111407dnspocowfocus.17727b.html

Posted by: bigfish | November 14, 2007 1:22 PM | Report abuse

LiberalMike, if you read what I wrote (and I don't care if anyone did or not, just adding my 2 cents) when I wrote "and when that happens to you it's mighty hard to band together and fight for the issues that are important to your people, much less the offensive name of a pro football team.", that's what it means, that they as a people have much more to worry about and organize over than Danny Boys Toybox.

Riggo44, thanks for your history lesson, how is middle school these days? Still rockin' that 70's mustache? I didn't lay blame at the feet of anybody there, or say that the native people had never done anything horrible to their own people. I just simply said that they've got other issues, and not the resources to deal with all of them. I also stated how the people that we had contact with are split on the issue, so it is complex, like everything in life.

Especially like beating the Cowpies without the Reaper this Sunday. I'm done.

Posted by: pulldownclaw | November 14, 2007 1:24 PM | Report abuse

can always count on chrislarry not to be able to refute a single point so he turns to the personal attack. Go inflate your girlfriend and let us grownups talk.

Posted by: Soups1 | November 14, 2007 1:25 PM | Report abuse

jm220:

I have studied the history; intently. Please show me exactly where I'm wrong, and I'll gladly listen.

Posted by: Soups1 | November 14, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Hey, I know this might be a couple posts late but just wanted to add my 2cents to the name of our team. I really think the attitude you bring to the table on this issue, is going to be the attitude you take away. If you don't like it, you won't like it afterwards, if you do like it, you will. Being a white guy married to a "redskin" girl, we, nor anyone in her family find it offensive, and her family (not her) are cowboys fans! They wouldn't get rid of the name EVER because they aren't looking for a reason to pick a fight, they are looking at it as a game and it's meant to be fun! Plus, our (her) family is more racist about her race than anyone I have ever met that isn't a "redskin"! They think it's hilarious and try to get me to join in at times, but it's much funnier to watch then to participate, you know? Just thought I'd share...thoughts?

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 1:28 PM | Report abuse

chelseatest, a lot of us have expressed disappointment in the way registration has turned out, but I think it's a stretch to say it has "killed the blog." There just isn't any news to discuss. It always takes real news to fire up the blog, and nothing's happening. Even during Dallas week.

You got a discussion topic for us, dude? Bring it on. Anything but the mascot.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 1:29 PM | Report abuse

JM220--no, not new. Been here since midway point of last season. Just don't post very often, that's all.

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Good for you tweedr01! A nice addition to the conversation.

Posted by: Soups1 | November 14, 2007 1:30 PM | Report abuse

E in VB, in your practice report you forgot "Thomas - Out"

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 1:31 PM | Report abuse

In support of Riggo44, I'll just bring up the Lost Colony on the coast of NC. I guess it was the "boogeyman" that wiped out the entire colony.

Topic discussion--Do y'all think we'll even blitz one time against Dallas? I'm thinking not. Gonna see an entire game of 8 yard cushions and 4 man rushes with Dallas making their way all over the field with little dinks and dunks.

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 1:34 PM | Report abuse

"Why Cowboys will win
It's all about the offense. Dallas has the second-best offense in the NFL, and it will be difficult for any team to stop it at this stage of the season. Expect the Cowboys to establish the run a little more. Marion Barber breaks out for a big game at home, and the defense harasses Redskins quarterback Jason Campbell into hurried throws. DeMarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer have strong performances.


Why Cowboys will lose
Washington has the eighth-best running offense in the NFL and Clinton Portis, who is second in the NFC with 766 yards, has a strong effort. If Portis breaks free, it will be difficult on the Cowboys' front seven. Washington isn't a very good passing team, as evidenced by James Thrash catching the team's first touchdown passes by a wide receiver of the season last week. This week, Thrash gets going and beats the Cowboys' secondary."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/111307dnspocowrail.2918004.html

Posted by: bigfish | November 14, 2007 1:36 PM | Report abuse

NCIC, JM's a good guy, no need to take offense with that phrase. The 'hammer' is said in jest.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 14, 2007 1:37 PM | Report abuse

"This week, Thrash gets going and beats the Cowboys' secondary"

I thought the NFL Network was reporting Thrash is out.

Posted by: NCICURN | November 14, 2007 1:37 PM | Report abuse

"I'm thinking we should have a new post in approx an hour... It will probably be a practice update.... Let me Guess...

Marcus - Limited in practice.
Moss - Not in pads... nada...
Smoot - Doing individual stuff resting the hammy..."

Posted by: EinVB | November 14, 2007 01:21 PM

You forgot ... Receiver, The on "no doze" playing pinball by his lonesome.

Just like it is important to look beyond the proverbial "trap" game to the next week's opponent, I am looking beyond this week's "trapped" game to the following week's opponent. To avoid injuries (and further demoralization) and so that everyone can heal, the Skins should just phone in the L and take a non-league sanctioned bye week.

Unless, of course, if T.O., Witten, Clayton, Glenn, Barber, and Julius Jones all get arrested for some nefarious indecent exposure crimes in the heart of Texas Amish country ... AND Prioleau has a stellar week in practice that includes slamming revolving doors and fooling all of the people all of the time, including mom.

Posted by: dcsween | November 14, 2007 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I forgot a "not" about not looking beyond trap games. And, in anticipation of getting jumped on for being fair weather, I don't think the Chargers beat the Clots b/c the Chargers are a better team ... or even the any given Sunday stuff. With 17 uninjured starters on the field, Clots never had a chance.

Posted by: dcsween | November 14, 2007 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Riggo, just thought I'd give my opinion from my weird perspective...love the name by the way, that man is everything that was awesome about the skins, he is the epitome of hard-ass!

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 1:48 PM | Report abuse

This could be the one game where the inability to get pressure on the QB works to our advantage. It's been pointed out time and time again that Romo is not very good when throwing from behind his line. He is most accurate when he is outside of the pocket. Drop TheRon back in coverage and tell him to constantly lay the wood on TO. Let the LB's stay on Witten and the RB's. That leaves Smoot on Crayton so he needs to step up and earn that check this week. I'm not ready to mail this one in already.

Posted by: bigfish | November 14, 2007 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm with you Big, I'm conceding nothing.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 14, 2007 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I'm conceeding everything......reverse pschology double back jinx in effect!

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Go inflate your girlfriend and let us grownups talk.


Lol, that was pretty funny.


Riggo,

Whether or not you are correct isn't really the point. You seem to be justifying the systematic killing and coralling an entire race of people.

Europeans have fought for thousands of years and yet it doesn't make Hitlers invasion of his neighbors correct.

Indian culture has been romanticized by film and tv for many years now to be sure but none of that justifies the US Govs systematic killing of American Indians.

Posted by: SeanTizzy2DaHizzy | November 14, 2007 1:58 PM | Report abuse

"Go inflate your girlfriend and let us grownups talk."

really thats funny, OK....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 14, 2007 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Oh come on CL. Not funny that it's directed at you. It's just a funny line.

Posted by: SeanTizzy2DaHizzy | November 14, 2007 2:04 PM | Report abuse

"Go inflate your girlfriend and let us grownups talk"

INCREDIBLY insensitive to inflatable girlfriends.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | November 14, 2007 2:09 PM | Report abuse

hey ST2DH, this is in no way trying to pick a fight with you, just wanted to clear up a few things real quick about the killing of the "Indians". The only real killing of them was done by Spanish and Portugese Europeans, really not at all by the Dutch, English, German and Irish, which made up the majority of America during the transition time. There were a few groups of farmers and such in the NW and South that banded together and tried to slaughter them, but nothing even remotely like that by the US Gov't. The gov't actually got most everything from the Treaty of Fort Wayne where they got the natives drunk and bought the land for 2cents an acre. I know that this is only a movie, but Apocalypto was very accurate in the sense the natives were actually killing each other more than anyone else. Obviously this was up until they realized white folk were trying to take their land, but that's neither here nor there...Oh and Redcoat, Tecumseh was the military leader from Prophetstown and was killed in the Battle of Thames in Canada. I'm a nerd, leave me alone!

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I just reread my post...after posting it...I should have made that more interesting, I put myself to sleep with typ......zzzzzz......zzzzz

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Tatonka!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | November 14, 2007 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I don't want to get into the whole history of it but indians were forced on reservation, treaties were broken and killing was done. Including germ warfare where Indians were supplied blankets that were contaminated with small pox and other diseases. This was done by the british and then american armies.

Posted by: SeanTizzy2DaHizzy | November 14, 2007 2:25 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand how this is even an issue its not like they are the cleavland indians with that stupid insultingly exaggerated picture of a native american. They reskins treat the native americans with the utmost respect.

Posted by: sams3 | November 14, 2007 2:31 PM | Report abuse

greerdoggy,

First, I don't think slurs are only seen as offensive by the people they are used against. I think most white people (myself included) think the N word is offensive, for instance.

Whether something is offensive MUST be a societal standard. Otherwise how could we function? I'm not saying we have to take a vote, I'm just saying its something that is determined collectively. A handful of people simply cannot arbitrarily declare a word "offensive" and prevent the rest of society from using the word.

If its not a slur, and so far nobody has cited one credible example of it being used as a slur, then there's nothing inherently offensive about using ones ancestors as a mascot. I have two ancestors who fought in the American Revolution, but I'm not offended that the New England Patriots mascot somehow trivializes their sacrifice. Of course it doesn't. Its a MASCOT, don't be so sensitive. If your great grandfather was in the California Gold Rush, should you protest the 49ers? Of course not.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 2:33 PM | Report abuse

This is the first week since the start of the year that I have not looked forward to this weeks game. I even thought the Skins had a chance against the Pats (atleast to cover the 17 pt spread.)

Needless to say I'll be screaming my lungs out but i doubt the Skins even have a chance to cover the 10.5 pts.

Posted by: sams3 | November 14, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I completely agree with the reservations, basically big camps for them to assimilate the natives, and definitely broken treaties, but that also went both ways. Natives played off European colonies on another just as much as the local gov't's did to the local native tribes. the small bands of farmers and such who were killing natives were acting on their own, or on behalf of local gov't, not on behalf of the federal gov't. but then again, the natives did the same thing, they went on a rampage but really not on behalf of the natives as a whole, just their small faction. as far as the chemical warfare during the 19th century, i haven't ever heard about that, not saying it isn't true, but that i've never heard that arguement before.

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 2:35 PM | Report abuse

tweedr01,

No man. Haven't you ever seen a Thanksgiving special. American Indians were completely innocent victims. They were totally non-violent. Certainly never pillaged, raped, and murdered women and children. Europeans were the only ones with blood on their hands.

They just welcomed us with turkey and corn and look where it got them.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 2:40 PM | Report abuse

From reading everyone's previous posts, I'll probably get alot of grief for this but....LMike, I agree with you. Realistically, the reason the name is Redskins is not because of some racist development of the 30's, but because a man was given a task to come up with what he thought would be the fiercest name in country. He believed that Redskins were some of the toughest, bravest warriors ever, and so named the team. Why would they ever name their own team something they did not want or like?

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else think they should let Landry take a shot at playing center field with Taylor out? Better range than Prioleau and more of an intimidation factor if he can get some shots on T.O.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 2:46 PM | Report abuse

If someone called me a whiteskin it would have to be what context they were using it to determine whether or not I was offended.

If there was a football team named after my race I would think it to be AWESOME...just my 2 cents...Washington Whiteskins!!! I love it and will lobby for it.

Posted by: P00P | November 14, 2007 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Well said, Tweed. Its all about intent to me.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Hahahahaha, Mike, dude, that was the funniest thing I've heard all week. For a short couple of seconds, it took away the pain of last Sunday, thank you very much!

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Awesome, Washington Whiteskins, that would be the ultimate!!! And see no offense taken, I know I know, it's not real, and a white guy said it, but even if someone else was to say it, that would be awesome!! I'm with you, if we have to change the name, its definitely Washington Whiteskins, put my name on the list!

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 2:52 PM | Report abuse

The name "Redskins" is not a cause, a symptom, nor a consequence of the lowly status of Native Americans in our society. If the name were changed, it wouldn't improve their lives in the least.

Native Americans have real problems. Compared to other Americans, even recent immigrants they have: higher rates of alcoholism, higher unemployment, lower incomes, lower educational attainment, and shorter life spans. These are their real problems, not the fact that the Washington football team is called the Redskins.

Their "leaders" and supporters, who waste energy on this "cause," are tilting at windmills and -- by diverting attention -- are helping to perpetuate the challenges that Native Americans face. Shouldn't you be trying to improve their schools, first, and then worrying about the name of the Washington football team? It's like being taken to an emergency room after an automobile accident with life-threatening injuries and delaying your admission until the nurse spelled your name right in the computer.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 14, 2007 3:07 PM | Report abuse

I'm dying at work, am I all by myself at 3?! So...bored....can't.....loook....away...

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 3:07 PM | Report abuse

How about the Washington Ragin' Caucasians? Too long?

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 3:08 PM | Report abuse

All I know is 9 out of 10 people I work with are Indians. Man do they love their coffee breaks and yapping on their cell phones.

Posted by: chelseatest | November 14, 2007 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Really Chelsea? Do you work out west somewhere?

Are we talking Indians from India or Indians who crossed the Bering straight just like we crossed the Atlantic and yet claim to be "native"?

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

beep beep!

Posted by: bigfish | November 14, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

History major dork reporting in...
(WARNING: DO NOT READ THIS POST IF ARE AN IDIOT)

I studied American Indians a bit in undergrad and the only thing I've concluded is there's a big ol' gray (grey) area that a lot of American Indian issues fall in. You never really see a totally polarized opinion about any subjects.

We watched a pretty remarkable documentary about a high school in California with their mascot being the "Redskins". Local American Indians supported the name and at the time of the documentary they were helping to appeal a mandatory name change for offensive mascots throughout our country. When asked individually in interviews, opinions were not so autonomous on the situation.
It's all very tricky. Even if you find a group of American Indians to support your "Redskin" name, it still leaves many others offended.
With my 2 cents being thrown into the ante, my only response is that the namesake of the Washington franchise is what it is. I don't see the name being changed voluntarily and if you have any suggestions or opinions, get up, walk away from your computer and do something about it. You're either preaching to a choir or throwing your pearls to swines up here. Its interesting to go back and forth on, but I cannot see any progress being achieved on a blog. That's just me. I'm really here to talk about the football team.

Skins by 40!

Posted by: Dorf | November 14, 2007 3:11 PM | Report abuse

and yes I realize I spelled strait incorrectly. fingers got ahead of me.

Posted by: LiberalMike | November 14, 2007 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Ahah, TE, someone's here!! Why would you go to the emergency room without making sure your name is in the system correctly, if they put it in wrong they might not be able to send you the bill and who wants that?

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 3:17 PM | Report abuse

LiberalMike-
I work about 30 miles west of DC. I'm not sure where these Indians came from. I can't understand most of them. They walk around here like a bunch of smarty pants.

Posted by: chelseatest | November 14, 2007 3:19 PM | Report abuse

WASHINGTON GYPSIES!! I'm half Czech and when I was over there as a kid my grandma would tell me to stay away from them...that they'd rob me and beat me up, etc....I thought they were a scary bunch, why not name us that?

Posted by: P00P | November 14, 2007 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Good call Dorf, that's the same way I know about the American Indians, well probably a different class, but same idea. And up here on the internet, everyone is going to stick to their guns, why would anyone change their opinion based on what some random person on the internet says? But thats what makes this country great, we are all entitled to our opinions, and right/wrong/whatever, to us they will be right. I still think that if by some happen chance we are forced into a name change, I will be on the Whiteskin bandwagon, its just so politically incorrect that I love it!

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 3:24 PM | Report abuse

OH MAN, I live amongst hundreds of Indians. They are very afraid of dogs and but they are super friendly. When I say afraid of dogs, I mean petrified of them. Watching full grown men jump into a bush just to get away from one of the sweetest dogs in the world is truly something to behold.

Posted by: P00P | November 14, 2007 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I just got the loseable type, instead of retyping that great post I had...I'll just funny stuff chelseatest, and something about P00 flingin but monkeys

Posted by: tweedr01 | November 14, 2007 3:32 PM | Report abuse

SeanTizzy2DaHizzy:

don't misunderstand; I'm not condoning any massacre. Just reflecting that history is always written by the conqueror. If a thing or two had gone differently in WWII, we'd all be speaking German right now. Or British, French, or Spanish if you go back far enough in our history. Things have a way of working out. The problem with the Native American culture has been their inability to assimilate into our culture. Theoretically, their lives should be a liberal utopia: a government check every month; a communal government and free health care for all. It actually rewards laziness and single-parenthood financially. So what's happened? Why is there so much alcoholism, drug use and crime? Simply because for the most part they have no hope and no initiative. Everywhere it's tried, a socialist/communist form of government fails. It robs people of their sense of dignity and self-worth. Doesn't matter whether it's the old Soviet Union or the Crow Nation in Hardin, Montana.

sorry to expound on this, but it's darned interesting. Frankly, if they'd start winning decisively again, they could call themselves the Washington Pink Fairies and I'd buy a jersey!

Posted by: Soups1 | November 14, 2007 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Rumor out there that Brandon Lloyd broke his clavicle and is out for the season. I know, it would be hard to tell, but can you confirm this, Jason?

Posted by: dheyman | November 14, 2007 5:31 PM | Report abuse

best post ever!! no joke, i felt this same exact way last sunday. great job dude!!

Posted by: jmc2007 | November 14, 2007 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Excellent and very well written entry on how I and most true Redskins fans feels. We KNOW Dallas is going to whip our tail, be we watch anyway...hoping...hoping...wishing...No Sean Taylor? Predicible offense? Coach with no heart? No Santana Moss? Bad clock management?
3rd and goal draw plays? Heavy Jumbo EVERYTIME we are in the Red zone? Burning timeouts to save 5 yards? We have no chance in beating Dallas...But I will watch, with my Redskins gear on...hoping that the mothership will return the HOF, 3 superbowl winning Joe Gibbs to the Redskins sideline and locker room. I don't even recognize the shell of a coach that is currently masquerading as Joe Gibbs...

Walfunk

Posted by: damn1 | November 14, 2007 10:04 PM | Report abuse

MY God MAN, IT'S DALLAS WEEK! SNAP OUT OF IT!

Posted by: parkerjx | November 15, 2007 8:50 AM | Report abuse

I too have felt like I was in a Burgundy and Gold cosmic HOLE (just how long will the Redskins embarrass Skins Nation year after painful year?).

Now I know that I am, in fact, in such a black hole but I've found fellow 'thinkers' who can articulate more than four letter diatribes.

This is deeper people! Follow the white rabbit. This is the Redskins Matrix where our life forces are being used to fuel sellouts, merchandise sales and provide high local ratings (what is the over/under for total Redskins related shows on TV? Redskins Late Night is scary - Chris Cooley said last week in a laissez-faire tone, "Who wouldn't take 5-3?" The Pats, Colts, Cowboys, etc. duh).

Yet, my friends and I will be Redskins fans for LIFE. Go Skins. Paper cut me to death!

Posted by: glacier626 | November 15, 2007 12:20 PM | Report abuse

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