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Guest Blog - AEE

I have posted guest blogs from AEE several times in the past. Earlier in the week Erin wrote to explain why she feels this is not the time to be too hard on the players or coaches given the tragedy that took place. AEE takes a long views and believes that major changes are needed on the coaching staff.

Here is his guest blog:

The Tao of Gibbs
The Long Goodbye

Lets start with the obvious......Coach Joe Gibbs no longer has the ability to stay organized and in control during an NFL football game. That's a simple truth. We might as well admit it now, even if the Larry Michael crowd doesn't like people to say it out loud. That crowd will have you believe this coaching staff and team is the one who made the run for the playoffs two years ago. Not the team that is .500 at home since the 2nd coming of St. Joe. They'll bring up that run over and over again when things are bad, as an example of success. Don't be fooled! That was a fluke.

Ladies and Gentlemen: Sunday was another example of below average coaching. But there is something that needs to be made clear here. Coaching a pro football team is more than just gamedays. It's a 24/7 job that requires a leader who isn't overwhelmed by his surroundings. Equally as poor as the in-game decisions that Coach Gibbs has been making during his return, is the sub-par job he has been doing during training camp and during the weekly practices.

Say it with me everybody................ FUNDAMENTALS.

F-U-N-D-A-M-E-N-T-A-L-S

This team is lacking in the very basics which are needed to be successful in the NFL. Tackling, Holding onto the ball, blocking, and coverage. These things which were wrong during a week one overtime win against the still winless Miami Dolphins, are the same things which they still have not corrected. What do they practice during the week? That jumbo package with no Fullback that screams out "Stack the box, because we're either running for a loss of 1, or it's a playaction pass to the only receiver we've got out there"? That's what the fans are screaming, and that's what the other team is defending against. St. Joe believers can scream until their throats are raw that is the fault of the players. They aren't executing. They aren't doing their jobs. But, who picked these players? Who coached these players? Who is calling these plays? This is the most predictable play calling in the NFL. That's the only way to explain having the lead at halftime in many games this season, only to end in a loss. That's sitting on small leads, and being afraid to put teams away. The lack of timing and chemistry on the deeper passing plays show that either the talent isn't there, or that they don't practice those plays enough.

Lets also state the obvious when it comes to the 2007-2008 season. Tragedy and Adversity are the main topics for discussion. Yesterday during the Sean Taylor tribute, nearly everybody was choked up. The players looked slow and drained. We can all understand that the murder of Sean has been hardest on his Family, blood and team. In the row in front of me, there was a family of folks decked out in Ravens gear, to cheer on Buffalo. I noticed one kid about 16-17 years old, using the #21 towel they handed out has a napkin while cramming french-fries in his face. Fortunately, two 20-something year old girls next to this boy keep telling him during the game that only women wear purple. Thanks Girls! During halftime he left for awhile and I grabbed the towel to bring home and wash. Using that towel was just as classless as the folks who couldn't be silent for 20 seconds before the game.

Still, between the murder of Sean, and stockpile of injuries, and even the personal tragedies for players like Coach Joe's grandson, and Shawn Springs' father. Its more than what one team can handle. With all this, I expect another poor season. But, there are things that should be in the control of the coaches when it comes to what happens on the field. Play calling has continued to be cowardly and predictable. Conditioning and health have been a problem for awhile now. Who runs the conditioning staff? The same problems seem to be plaguing players who never had those issues before. Hamstrings and Shoulders over and over again. I know we all see them stretching during pregame, but I don't know. Maybe they need to try some yoga or a martial art. Whenever Clinton gets to the line of scrimmage during a carry, he starts falling before he's even touched. Why is that? Who isn't correcting that style of running? He can't break a single tackle? That 3rd stringer for Buffalo broke the first tackle on almost every running play. How does he know this but Clinton doesn't?

By last Friday, we saw a head coach who looked 10 years older than his real age. We saw a man weighed down by the reality that is facing this club. A reality that involved murder and catastrophe. A reality that hopefully leads this man to understand his place is no longer on the sidelines. Maybe he has a future upstairs....maybe not. But, we can be sure that while the soul has been willing.......... The body and mind have not.

Goodbye Sean.....Thank You.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 6, 2007; 10:11 AM ET
 
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Comments

Very true.

Posted by: kylelewis1 | December 6, 2007 10:27 AM | Report abuse

ditto

Posted by: 815517 | December 6, 2007 10:31 AM | Report abuse

I don't think tackling has been a big problem, and much improved over last year.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 6, 2007 10:33 AM | Report abuse

There were multiple occasions in which I witnessed Portis break 2-3 tackles just to get back to the line.

I think the problem is more his open field running. He never mkaes anyone miss anymore.

Posted by: sams3 | December 6, 2007 10:44 AM | Report abuse

All very good points. But why did you not add that our entire right side of our O-Line has been destroyed by injuries. Think maybe we could run the ball a little bit better and maybe pass block a little bit better and be able to drain the clock a little bit better if we had Jensen and Thomas in the game. I mean seriously, who is going to want to run being Heyer (an undrafted rookie can not expect to be great right off the bat) and Fabini. Come on now, let's be realistic about things. Not to mention, has anyone noticed a slight change for the worse when Springs has not been healthy, and Rogers is out for the year? Now SeanTay is gone. We are not full strength, don't expect us to be killing teams with all of these injuries.

Peace

36/21 Forever in our hearts

Posted by: bigmurf08 | December 6, 2007 10:51 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Portis has a problem with open field running, except for never having an open field in which to run.

As sams3 noted, CP keeps having to duck people and break tackles just to get back to the line of scrimmage. If the line is doing its job, there ought to be somewhere to run. You certainly shouldn't be dodging multiple defenders upon receiving a pitch five yards behind the line of scrimmage. If Randy T. is healthy, we should see a big difference tonight.

Posted by: MJPinDC | December 6, 2007 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Portis looks slow with no moves. He just wraps up the ball and lowers his head. At least Ladell puts in a stutter step.

Santana does not have the same explosion. He has the speed, when he gets up to speed, but his initial burst was what set him apart.

Overall I agree with AEE, when we are passing all over the bills, why after halftime do you change that strategy?

Grimm for HC

Posted by: Zebraskins | December 6, 2007 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, AEE. Not very compelling. Not very interesting. Sounds like ageism.

Sadly, Gibbs has made some mistakes and fuels the crowd that thinks he's too old. Most of that criticism is unfounded.

Posted by: Joe_in_Raleigh | December 6, 2007 10:57 AM | Report abuse

I would love to know the demographics of those who respect and revere Joe Gibbs, and those who want him fired. I am from the generation that remembers Joe Gibbs at his best. Joe Gibbs could go 0-16 and I just couldn't be mad at him. Having said that, I really wish he hadn't come back, because his well deserved legacy is definitely getting tarnished. To those who were too young to remember the glory years, I can certainly understand your feelings about Gibbs.

Posted by: jimwell | December 6, 2007 10:57 AM | Report abuse

PLEASE, Jason...spare us from any more of these guest blogs!!!!

Posted by: Lisa | December 6, 2007 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Tackling is much better this year. There are more hamstring injuries all around the league not just with us. The game I have seen CP has broken tackles so I really don't agree with that one.

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Some good accurate points, but some other inaccurate points...

Who is having repeated shoulder problems on this team... Nobody! Rocky had some shoulder issues a few weeks ago due to a pinched nerve from a stinger in one of the earlier games this year... That's it and I haven't heard a thing about it bothering him anymore for at least 4 weeks or so...

Tackling has rarely been an issue for this team this year and has hardly cost us a game. you could maybe say that the NYG game where Carlos and the rest of the secondary whiffed on Burress, but the game should have been won in other areas, not just stopping that one play. Heck the defense has been what's kept us in games all year minus the Patriots and Cowboys games.

I do think we can all agree the conservative 2nd half, let's sit on our lead playcalling and make this a close game that maybe our defense can win has got to change. Running the ball more is one thing and smart when its working but when you're averaging 1-2 yds a carry you can't keep doing it.

And I couldn't agree more that Portis just seems weak and below average running the ball. He has no quickness or explosiveness with his cuts and can't make anyone miss... His knee or leg that plagued him all pre-season apparently is not strong enough, I don't know what else could have happened since last year. He can't makes his cuts to avoid defenders and extend the runs... He simply hasn't broke any big runs... I think he had one 20+ carry against the Jets, but that ain't saying much... Big Dissapointment there...

Posted by: EinVB | December 6, 2007 11:03 AM | Report abuse

When do we get an injury/inactives report for the night game, late afternoon?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 6, 2007 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"During halftime he left for awhile and I grabbed the towel to bring home and wash. Using that towel was just as classless as the folks who couldn't be silent for 20 seconds before the game"

As opposed to stealing, which is somehow classy??

I agree on the playcalling, and sitting on leads, thats got to stop. However you cannot simply gloss over losing the number of starters that we did, and expect to operate in the same manner. Jansen, was lost in the first half of the first game. Thomas was lost in what the 3rd game?? That right there is a CRIPPLING, blow to any type of continuity that the line hoped to have. How many games have our wide-receivers missed? I'd venture to guess that if they're missing games, they're not able to practice, which leads to both parties not being on the same page.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 6, 2007 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Swing and a miss. I have been a HUGE Gibbs supporter and even I have been losing faith lately, but the points in this glog just aren't compelling. Blaming Gibbs for stuff like injuries...even suggesting martial arts or yoga? What is that? Tackling? Fumbling?? I just don't see the point of this one.

The playcalling in the second half has been bad, but let's not blame gibbs for fumbling the ball. Seriously.

I also think portis is fine and it's the line that has been bad.

Posted by: WrongDog | December 6, 2007 11:12 AM | Report abuse

I hate making excuses for this team, but I must say that injuries have led to some of the problems mentioned above. I think CP is still running hard and he gives 100% on every play. What other RB in the league loves to hit people on every play? It's hard to make moves when your offensive line can't block for you. Joe needs to hand the job to someone else. It is obvious he has lost his ability to control the game. I hope Thomas opens some holes tonight! Anyone know if Skins fans have been selling there tickets to Bears fans? I have a feeling Bears fans will be there in huge numbers!

Posted by: redryan400 | December 6, 2007 11:16 AM | Report abuse

O-Line injuries have been huge. From heart of team to liability by week 3. Randy Thomas is top 5 player on the entire team....

And the people saying "it was good jansen got hurt, Wade is better" well I guess they got proved wrong....

Not to mention that the guys playing have been pretty banged up: Rabach, Heyer, Wade have all missed time.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 6, 2007 11:18 AM | Report abuse

The tackling has not been great. I'm not sure if its the tackling or guys being out of position but a good tackling team does not give up a 70 yard screen play with the game on the line. Some guys seem to be tackling well, Smoot seems a bit improved there, but there are still many plays where backs break tackles and turn a loss into a 4 yard gain. Tackling is certainly not to blame for most of the losses but it's not the strength of the team (rewatch Fred Jackson last week).

Posted by: kreitman4 | December 6, 2007 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Jasno,

I'm in favor of guest blogs, but maybe you ought to raise the bar a bit? Too many are just recycled stuff from the blog with an attitude. They are short on style or original thought or insight.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 6, 2007 11:20 AM | Report abuse

I'M SORRY LISA I DIDN'T KNOW YOU OWNED THIS FORUM.

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | December 6, 2007 11:22 AM | Report abuse

I agree with some of that blog but also disagree with some of it. Nobody runs harder and plays as physical in the tailback position in this league like Portis. Where you get off saying that he falls to the ground without breaking any tackles is pure ignorance. Shuan Alexander and Cedric Benson run like that, not Portis. I agree the play calling is predictable and that Gibbs needs to go. He is a liability to the team and hurts it more than he helps it. Gibbs centralized role with the team is that he is essentially the team "manager" and game day decision maker. Gregg Williams has 100% control of the defense. Gibbs has no involvement with the defense whatsoever. On offense, it's Al Saunders playbook and offense. No one will ever know to what degree Gibbs interjects with the play calling and to what extent his ideas get implemented in the game plan. So again his main role with this team is that he is the game day decision maker. In this role he has FAILED with a capital F. The type of errors he has made on game day is inexcusable and unimaginable. If you add his win loss record and couple that with the unprecedented mistakes he has made on Sundays, then my friends, you have no choice than to hope he takes a hike. If you were to remove Joe Gibbs from the Redskins organization what difference do you think it would make? Would it hurt the team? Absolutely not. With him being gone would it enhance the Redskins chances of winning on Sundays? Absolutely. Joe Gibbs is a liability to the team and is a borderline embarrassment. It is starting to become debatable whether it should be Gibbs in the Hall of Fame or Bobby Beatherd.

Posted by: george.banian | December 6, 2007 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Gotta disagree kreitman4.....

the screen passes have been result of the cover 2. We have our line constantly going full bore to the passer and thus past the line of scrimmage, and we are dropping our secondary deeeep. Our LBs are left on islands and thus buy scheme are out of position on the short and midrange stuff.

The Patriots were the first to exploit this soft middle 5-20 yards with endless dumps, screens and draw plays. In every game since teams have used similar plays. Once we pinch they hit up top.

Grillimas is to married to his schemes and teams can game plan against us pretty easily. I would like to see us do some zone blitzes and use Andre Carter occasionally to drop off the rush and defend the 5 zard zone around LoS...

But what do I know...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 6, 2007 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Agree with t-e, though I do appreciate the effort from AEE and others.

I had a nightmare last night that Joe Gibbs quit, Al Saunders was the new head coach, and Danny Smith was our GM.

Posted by: PDiddy | December 6, 2007 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Anyone have a theory about the hamstring injuries around the League? Seems like there have been many, many more than usual.

We're talking about some of the most finely conditioned athletes on the planet. Varying coaching and training staffs with varying methodologies, yet one constant injury throughout.

FieldTurf? Shoe manufacturer? Equipment manufacturer?

Very strange.

Posted by: PDiddy | December 6, 2007 11:30 AM | Report abuse

There is a lot of haters in the house.

Yes, they are saying things we know already but I think La Canfora was only trying to give both fan perspectives regarding Gibbs and the overall state of the team. If someone thinks they can write something better, send it in.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 6, 2007 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Very well said RedDMV

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I totally agree with folks that point out how the o-line injuries have impacted the offense. Even Bram on Redskins Radio noted that in the last game, three d-line rushers where able to get penetration on the o-line. I don't understand why the media doesn't focus on the injuries more as an explanation of the record. Our #1 receiver has one TD for the year! Everyone knew that Campbell would potentially have growing pains this year. Gibbs is trying not to put everything on his shoulders. Gibbs should be coach as long as he wants to be here. We're close... I think next year will be a breakout season.

Posted by: jimpolitte | December 6, 2007 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Preach on, my man. These Gibbs supporters are clueless. They would let Gibbs punch their mother's in the face and turf their lawns as long as he said, "well, the way I kinda look at things, UP HERE, is that punching your mother in face means we're going about things the right way UP HERE".

And while these dopes ohhh and ahhh over their bloodied mother laying on a turfed lawn, the rest of us in tune with reality realize that something really messed up just happened. Only here, Gibbs punches our mothers and turfs our lawns every Sunday afternoon.

WAKE UP YOU FOOLS!

15 second half losses. Can't you get that through your head??????? He was like 89-11 during Gibbs 1.0. Now he is 17-15 or something crazy like that during Gibbs 2.0.

10 games under .500 since his return, and right around .500 at home. Is that good???

He brought our players in. He made these trades. He traded away our picks. He put us in the cap position we're in. He could have told Danny no, but he didn't. Are you guys that clueless????????????????

How can you also ignore the mass confusion that is Redskins Park and the sidelines on a Sunday afternoon? The clock management? The sitting on a 2 point lead and running on 3rd and 7? Who does that?

Well, the good news (or is it bad news?) for you Gibbs supporters is that he'll be punching your mother and turfing your lawns a few days earlier this week. ENJOY the circus tonight! And even if we don't win, is 6-10 and 7-9 okay with you guys? HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. What clowns you are.

Posted by: RickyBobby | December 6, 2007 11:40 AM | Report abuse

I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but, we lost:
Jansen - 11 games
Thomas - 9 games
Rogers - 5 games
ARE/MOSS - 2 games combined

You can't lose guys on the OL, especially guys who line up next to one another, for the amount of time that the Redskins have, and NOT expect the running game to suffer.

ARE/Moss have been injured for the majority of the season, which has impaired their ability to practice just about all year long. How can you possibly expect this not to have a negative effect on the passing game.

Its easy to just pin the blame on the coach, but dig a little deeper and the real reasons for the team struggling are apparent.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 6, 2007 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Failure to execute the plays is the number one problem with this team. A missed block here, overthrow of a receiver there, and dropped passes all add up throughout the game and allow the other team to gain momentum while our team can't stay in a rhythm. We've all seen this team have flawless 9 or 10 play drives right down the field, converting on every third down and producing a touchdown. However, unlike good teams, we seem unable to consistently put drives like that together because of the miscues that I mentioned above. Meanwhile, we allow the other teams to stay in the game and force our defense into tough situations at the end of the game which obviously they can't be expected to overcome every freakin' game.

Posted by: chris_skins_balt | December 6, 2007 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Face it people, Joe was never a good evaluator of talent the first go round. It's a good thing the Skins had Bethard. It's too bad they almost always disagreed. How many Super Bowls were won with Bethard?

Also, why is it this team continually has the same types of injuries each year? Is is conditioning? Strength training? Who runs this team?

You would think that with all these "great" coaches that they could win with whoever they plugged in.

As for the Hoyer comment, wasn't Jake an undrafted free agent? Get real.

This is what you are going to get until Snyder gets smart and hires a good GM, and gets a new coaching staff.

Stop living in the past.

Posted by: Ireland2 | December 6, 2007 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Portis is still in the top 10 RB in the league when it comes to yards. Its not his problem that the line does not move anyone for him. Also as far as the hold the ball and plow ahead, IS THAT NOT GIBBS RUNNING?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 6, 2007 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Its easy to just pin the blame on the coach, but dig a little deeper and the real reasons for the team struggling are apparent.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 6, 2007 11:41 AM

Greg,

I guess I used to think like this, but even with the injuries our team has been leading at the halftime and then gone on to lose the game. How many games have we lost after leading in the third quarter? Four? Five?

Now if the same group of players can win the first half and then lose the second half, how do you explain it? It doesn't sound like injuries to me that has caused us to be badly outscored in the second half.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 6, 2007 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Hey guys, up here, at the 10 yard line, we run jumbo. I don't care that we've run jumbo 273 times this year inside the 10 and on 3rd and short, and it's only worked 4 times out of those 273, we're gonna keep running it up here. We're definitely going about things the right way up here. 15 second losses (the most by about 3) since I returned is definitely a coincidence up here.

What's that? TIMEOUT????????

HUH? Take another one?????????

Waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh, I don't know the rules and he told me I could.

Posted by: RickyBobby | December 6, 2007 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Wasn't it something like 10 years ago that WINNING teams passed to set up the run?

How many times did the Patriots run the ball when they beat the Eagles? 3 times? 4 times?

So what's wrong with a little dinosaur????

Posted by: Ireland2 | December 6, 2007 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand why the media doesn't focus on the injuries more as an explanation of the record.

Every team has injuries, especially this time of the year. There is not one player that is 100% healthy and if he is they are using HGH or some other steroid. No one has suffered significant injuries on the level the Redskins have, at least a team with this much potential. Again, if you're looking for the national media to give sympathy (ESPN) look elsewhere. No one in Bristol cares about DC.

I mean look at Mark Schlereth. This guy played in DC for 5 seasons and he rarely acknowledges the Redskins. All he does is slurp John Elway all day.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 6, 2007 11:55 AM | Report abuse

and the Return of Ricky Bobby! charming as ever...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 6, 2007 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I was thinking the same thing CL. And if I am not mistaken he talked about chaning after the death of Sean. I guess that didn't last long.

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 11:57 AM | Report abuse


Re: Sorry, AEE. Not very compelling. Not very interesting. Sounds like ageism.

Sadly, Gibbs has made some mistakes and fuels the crowd that thinks he's too old. Most of that criticism is unfounded.

Do you consider your points compelling?

Posted by: HonestSkinsFan | December 6, 2007 12:00 PM | Report abuse

There is some truth in this guest blog, but its an extreme statement, like so many others, and chooses points selectively to try to prove a presumption (I guess its that Gibbs must go).

I won't make up excuses for Gibbs mistakes this season, because they were avoidable.

But, if I'm not mistaken, he doesn't call the plays.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 6, 2007 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Re:

I don't have the exact statistics in front of me, but, we lost:
Jansen - 11 games
Thomas - 9 games
Rogers - 5 games
ARE/MOSS - 2 games combined

You can't lose guys on the OL, especially guys who line up next to one another, for the amount of time that the Redskins have, and NOT expect the running game to suffer.

ARE/Moss have been injured for the majority of the season, which has impaired their ability to practice just about all year long. How can you possibly expect this not to have a negative effect on the passing game.

Its easy to just pin the blame on the coach, but dig a little deeper and the real reasons for the team struggling are apparent.

Who is in charge of roster depth? We lost Jasen for a season (or large part) not that long ago...and thomas broke his leg (also not long ago)...that is why depth and the draft is important.

Posted by: HonestSkinsFan | December 6, 2007 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I attended the game last weekend... was even emotional during the pre-game tribute to Sean. I also told myself that no matter what happened I wasn't going to get worked up over the game.

Well Joe Gibbs changed all of that in the span of 3 or 4 minutes at the tail end of the game. He is a great man, but he has without a doubt turned into the worst coach I have EVER seen in my life. Sunday was the last straw. He needs to go and everyone here knows it.

Posted by: RickyBobby | December 6, 2007 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Being one who admired Gibbs and watched the first run here, I have to agree with AEE. He needs to go, and AEE sums up exactly why. HIs stubborness and unwillingness to adjust (or to make his Defensive Coordinator adjust) is losing games. The Jumbo package is garbage and anyone can see that the team stops moving the ball as soon as that package enters the game. The kiss of death on every drive has been the ref announcing that #79 has reported as a Tackle Eligible.

The Joe Gibbs I remember was the best at making adjustments, and didn't let up off the gas the way the second manifestation has.

I am a Redskins fan, not a Joe Gibbs fan. I appreciate what the man did for the team, but there's no way that he could go 0-16 without me finding a ton of fault in that performance.

Ask yourselves this question: Would those of you defending Gibbs be defending any other coach with this record and this seemingly clueless sideline management?

Of course you wouldn't.

Posted by: keino83 | December 6, 2007 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand why the media doesn't focus on the injuries more as an explanation of the record.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 6, 2007 11:55 AM

Red--They, like I, don't agree with your premise. We think that the injuries don't explain it. If the team, even with injuries, can win the first half, they should be able to win the second half.

Something happens after the first half is over that causes the other team to rise up and beat us down. Here's the numbers:

First half:

Redskins 115 Opponents 105

Second half:

Redskins 108 Opponents 152

So how do the Redskins win the first half and lose the second half? Do you really think it's because of injuries and not because of coaching?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 6, 2007 12:05 PM | Report abuse

During halftime he left for awhile and I grabbed the towel to bring home and wash. Using that towel was just as classless as the folks who couldn't be silent for 20 seconds before the game"

As opposed to stealing, which is somehow classy??

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 6, 2007 11:05 AM

---------------------------------

Love it! Excellent point gm88

Posted by: NCICURN | December 6, 2007 12:07 PM | Report abuse

The running game suffered the past few weeks b/c of the injured line with a couple of back-up players that have nagging injuries themselves -- plus Sellers hasn't been blocking the past two games for Ports -- that's huge. R. Thomas and Sellers should be back tonight. Look for a big lift in the running game at home. Gotta be balanced.

Posted by: jimpolitte | December 6, 2007 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Continuing on my previous comments about Portis - I didn't intend to say he's worthless. I think he's a straight baller and goes 100% whenever he's on the field, but he just cant do what he's been able to do in the past... I know the line has hurt his potential and ability to carry the ball for ample yardage, but something just isn't right with him b/c he can't make cuts and stay on his feet like previous seasons...

I love him, but I think more use of Betts may be better served if they plan on running alot at certain times of games... Its a tough decision. Portis is definitely the better pass protector.

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed on Sunday, but first offensice play of the game against Buffalo was a pass to Moss and Portis runs up the field and delivers a huge blow (flying shoulder of a block) to a big D-Lineman and puts him on his a$$... After the play he's jumping up and down b/c he just leveled the guy... I thought that was awesome... you know he was saying to Sean... How did you like that one?

Its amazing to see hos hard Portis plays when the ball is not in his hands... And that you have to love!

Posted by: EinVB | December 6, 2007 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Those who are calling for Betts to run more. Do you remember the last time you guys called for him to run more? He did and I hope you guys remember what the results was.

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't there a cry from the multitudes to return to Redskins football after year one of Al?

There is now a hew and cry to lay this all on Gibbs.

Whichever way the wind blows...I guess.

Turning an average NFL franchise into a dominant one is no small matter.

There are no simple answers. Everything is connected.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 6, 2007 12:13 PM | Report abuse

RB, if Gibbs is the worst coach you have ever seen in your life, you are obviously new to redskins fandom.

Posted by: WrongDog | December 6, 2007 12:17 PM | Report abuse

JM,

What results are you implying? I don't remember the last time he ran the ball much at all since the NYG game?

Posted by: EinVB | December 6, 2007 12:17 PM | Report abuse

TE,
Here are some theories.
1) Injuries that occur during a game take out key players. Performance will tail off as scrubs are brought it.

2) If the OL consists of a rag-tag bunch brought together by fate, the offense will perform poorly. The defense will spend too much time on the field and get beaten late in the game.

Not that I subscribe to such simplistic thing, but yes, its possible the coaching staff is not the only explanation.

Back to you Redcoat.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 6, 2007 12:19 PM | Report abuse

I would take Marty, Norv, and even the ol' Ball Coach over Gibby the Clown. They may not have made the smartest decisions all the time, but at least they had balls.

Gibby's balls have shriveled up and fallen off. I'm surprised there isn't a line of RI posters to juggle them.

Posted by: RickyBobby | December 6, 2007 12:20 PM | Report abuse

TE, I think its both. I don't think you can blame the 5-7 record on coaching only, just like I don't think you can only blame the loosing on injuries. I was actually one of the people who thought the guest blog was somewhat on point. If I were forced to choose between coaching and injuries, I would choose coaching as the reason for the loosing record.

You may not remember, but when I was posting with the old moniker I was of the guys suggesting that maybe it was/is time for Gibbs to step down as head coach. I never go to extremes criticizing the man though. I think he has earned a lot of respect not just as a coach, but a man as well.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 6, 2007 12:21 PM | Report abuse

he's referring to the fumble in the Eagles game, which was his only carry. it's awfully hard to get into a rhythm getting your first and only carry of the game in the 3rd/4th quarter.

Posted by: RickyBobby | December 6, 2007 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I see runs that Portis is making and just wonder whether Betts wouldn't have more success... If they are stuck on running the ball even when its not working (like the buffalo game) why not mix it up with Betts and see if he can't be more successful... Portis wasn't the problem sunday... It was the O-Line. They couldn't block for runs or passes, they got trampled... the D-Line wasn't much better either. I found it interesting that we were winning the game, but losing both battles in the trenches on offense and defense.

Posted by: EinVB | December 6, 2007 12:22 PM | Report abuse

RB, you would take Spurrier over Gibbs? Really?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 6, 2007 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Where'd the old "fun" negativity go, RB?

Posted by: 4-12 | December 6, 2007 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Oh nevermind reason, I'm with RickyBooby on this one!

I meant back to you RedDMV, sorry.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 6, 2007 12:25 PM | Report abuse

I had a nightmare last night that Joe Gibbs quit, Al Saunders was the new head coach, and Danny Smith was our GM.

Posted by: PDiddy | December 6, 2007 11:26 AM

Sounds like a good night's sleep to me. I had a nightmare recently that my team was blowing every game this season. Can somebody please wake me up!!

Posted by: ga8085 | December 6, 2007 12:25 PM | Report abuse

TE, RE: my 11:55 post, that opening sentence was made by someone else.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 6, 2007 12:27 PM | Report abuse

RB,

I would like to see Gibbs not be coach next year, and have laid out my strategic plan many times previously including on the last thread. And I agree with some of your analysis.

But when you say you would rather have Spurrier or Norv....well you lose me big time there and don't accept your opinions as rational conversation about football, and instead just the rants of a disgruntled customer. Which are valid, just not productive for improving the team.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 6, 2007 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Very interesting aspect of tonites game will be the running game.

CP's 25 for 50 last week was abysmal. The Bears running defense is flat-out atrocious, therefore it will be inexcusable if the Skins do not run well tonite.

Posted by: gdennie | December 6, 2007 12:27 PM | Report abuse

JM

Is that your point? A fumble? Well if so, then get Portis off the field. He's fumbled five times this year and lost four of them.

Look, Betts' average carry this year is 3.9 yards. And Portis? 3.9 yards. Not a lot to separate them, is there, except that Portis is a fumbler (five times in 238 carries) and Betts isn't (one time in 67 carries)?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 6, 2007 12:29 PM | Report abuse

can't remember the last time i read something that provided less insight. trying times for the redskins? yup. Not coached all the well? Yup. Thanks, I feel a lot more informed than I did last night.

Posted by: erikgreenberger | December 6, 2007 12:30 PM | Report abuse

cl,

fine. I would rather have norv, not the old ball coach. I guess my big issue with Gibbs is the lack of balls and ultra conservative, sit on 2-point leads crap. It's maddening to watch.

Posted by: RickyBobby | December 6, 2007 12:30 PM | Report abuse

In my opinion Gibbs deserves another year. The injuries, and a "1st year QB" are definite considerations. I know it is Gibbs 4th year back, but any time you are going with essentially a rookie at QB you are going to have growing pains and lose winnable games. I think he is showing positive signs of adaptability. He did eventually bench Brunell, he is starting to give carries to Sellars, he's going for it on 4th down alot more, and I don't know if anyone noticed, but they did run just as many (if not more) pass than run plays inside the 10 last weekend. They just didn't execute. He's letting Cambell cut loose with the no-huddle. For the first time in years we have a full draft coming up in April, minus only a 4th or 5th rounder I think. Free agency seems to have toned down to pretty smart pickups, and they look to be re-signing/extending the right guys. There are definite arguments to warrant a GM, but I think that he is moving in all the right directions. Hate to use the cliche, but if they can do their usual cap magic and field a healty team next year, they could be a serious contender. Bringing in a new coach with a new plan doesn't guarantee better results. If we see the same results/losses with a healthy team, it will have been five years and time to step down. I say give him one more year. I would say the same thing if it was Joe Blow coaching.

Posted by: dlhaze | December 6, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I would take Marty over Gibbs at this point, but I sure wouldn't take Norv or Spurrier... Not a chance... I think Gibbs fate will be determined between tonight and the end of the season.

If he's gone, Greg Williams or Russ Grimm should be the new HC. Furthermore, if Gibbs does resign his position as HC, then I think he stays as President for at least a year... Hopefully he hires a GM to run the ship after he's gone... Vinny can't be the answer... Even though personnell decisions were better this past year, that not enough to make up for all of his prior mistakes. I can't trust that dude and his eyes freak me out even more that some of his decisions...

Posted by: EinVB | December 6, 2007 12:31 PM | Report abuse

"...Betts' average carry this year is 3.9 yards. And Portis? 3.9 yards. Not a lot to separate them, is there, except that Portis is a fumbler (five times in 238 carries) and Betts isn't (one time in 67 carries)?"


I guess Portis and Betts are "interchangeable" after all.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 6, 2007 12:34 PM | Report abuse

In my opinion Gibbs deserves another year.

Posted by: dlhaze | December 6, 2007 12:31 PM

What I keep coming back to is, why? What will Gibbs do with another year? He isn't going to turn this ship around in a year. Yes, he can improve it, but then what? Extend him for five more years? I really can't see the case for that.

The Gibbs experiment didn't work, and it's too late to change that fact. Gibbs is the past, and he's not the future. I'd like to get started on the future -- under the next coach -- next year, not the year after.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 6, 2007 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Sween, where art thou and thy levelheaded insights?

Posted by: D7 | December 6, 2007 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I swear, if they don't go down field tonight against that injury riddled seconday of the Bears (Vasher out still), then I'm going to...complain on here the next day.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 6, 2007 12:37 PM | Report abuse

After seeing Sellars get banged up a little bit, I would like to see him stick to run blocking and only run when necessary (3rd and 1).

You are what you are and I don't recall him missing any games the last two seasons.

I could be wrong...

Posted by: RedDMV | December 6, 2007 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Norv you got to f ing kidding me! He takes a 14-2 team and turn them into a team that may not make the playoff and you want him.

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 12:38 PM | Report abuse

TE,
This "problem" will solve itself.

Gibbs may not be the guy to bring this team back to glory, but he will probably be the guy that puts all the pieces in place and hands it over to new leadership.

Things will probably look good for a year or two. What happens in the longer term will depend upon who fills Gibbs shoes.

Who? Now, you're talking about a crap shoot.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 6, 2007 12:42 PM | Report abuse

JM, I don't like Norv neither but the Chargers pretty much have sown up the AFC west division.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 6, 2007 12:42 PM | Report abuse

But, if I'm not mistaken, he doesn't call the plays.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 6, 2007 12:00 PM

No he does not call the plays. Al does. However Joe has the heaviest influence on the game plan. Al just calls what he has been given. As it has been said before, do you think somebody who had the number one NFL offense before he got here suddenly forgot how to call a game? Al is a loyal asst which is doing what he has been told. Joe Gibbs has an offense that he will not change because it worked...in the past. He was known for 2nd 1/2 adjustments during his first stint. When is the last time any of you have seen him adjust on the fly???? And before you answer be honest with yourselves. We all appreciate everything he has done for the franchise but this team has so much potential I believe his stubborness has prevented them from achieving it.

Posted by: roweq | December 6, 2007 12:43 PM | Report abuse

One more year because I think we are very close. He is starting to show that he at least wants to go for TD's rather than FG's now, plus the other stuff I mentioned.. Campbell and all other things should fall into place. With the draft we can add some depth and possibly a starter or two. Campbell being better will be huge. The players seem to love playing for him. D and teams are very good (forgot to mention that Suisham seems to be looking like a smart move), and if the offense can get a few points better per game the sky is the limit. He seems to be making all of the adjustments we as fans keep screaming for (bench Brunell, go for it on 4th, get a good kicker, let the reigns loose on JC, try to score TD's), and the players are just not executing. I just don't see how a new coach makes it different.

Posted by: dlhaze | December 6, 2007 12:46 PM | Report abuse

YOU RULE RICKY BOBBY. I AGREE JOE MUST GO. HE HEATHER THOMAS WAS HOT IN THE 80'S BUT HAVE U SEEN HER NOW! SHE LOOKS AS GOOD AS GIBB'S COACHES.

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | December 6, 2007 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Believe me RickyBobby I have more balls than you'll ever have. In fact, come down and see me tonight and I'll rip yours off and feed em too you. How's THAT for a christian attitude, dick?

Posted by: Joe_Gibbs | December 6, 2007 12:50 PM | Report abuse

dlhaze
One more year?! He's still reverting back to conservo mode in the second half. He's still screwing up in the game management situations. Yes, he's improved a "little", but you can't teach an old dog new tricks. And Gibbs doesn't seem intent on learning either. What does it take for him to realize you cannot go into your shell with a small lead? I can't take another year of that, sorry. Off he goes!

Posted by: ga8085 | December 6, 2007 12:51 PM | Report abuse

YOU RULE RICKY BOBBY. I AGREE JOE MUST GO. HE HEATHER THOMAS WAS HOT IN THE 80'S BUT HAVE U SEEN HER NOW! SHE LOOKS AS GOOD AS GIBB'S COACHES.

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | December 6, 2007 12:48 PM

Who is Heather Thomas?

Posted by: ga8085 | December 6, 2007 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Here's a list of some of the major issues/problems this team has faced:

Sean Taylor's injury and death
Shawn Springs father falls into a coma
Joe Gibbs grandson has leukemia

Randy Thomas misses most of the season and his backup is a big step down
John Jansen misses the whole season and his backup, Wade, is OK
But, Wade gets dinged up and his play diminishes. His backup is Heyer, who is needed but isn't a good player at this point
Santana Moss has fallen a ton from expectations
Carlos Rogers is lost for the season. Carlos was an OK starter, but the people behind him are big drop off
Marcus Washington misses early games but the dropoff is not too bad
Fred Smoot is hurt and the drop off isn't too bad, until we lose Rogers as well. And Taylor :(
Jason Campbell is playing like a young QB, good at times and inconsistent others. Turnovers have been problematic for him
Rabach was hurt
The coaches have made numerous questionable calls
The coaches have played 'not to lose' in 2nd half ... and wind up losing
ARE has missed time
Thrash is out
Lloyd, who we didn't expect much from anyway, was a total loss
Portis is not the back he once was
Betts is not the back he was last year
Skins remain in salary cap hell, which limits personnel options
One of the toughest schedules in the entire NFL

The list is long and probably not complete, but the thing is the issues that hit the Skins are concentrated in 3 areas.
1. Secondary where Springs and Smoot are dealing with issues, Rogers is lost and Taylor missed a few games before tragedy struck. Skins are forced into using guys 7th and 8th on the depth chart.
2. The o-line, where the right side has needed to rely of Wade, Fabini and Heyer ... a big drop from Jansen and Thomas. Again, the Skins have to go deep into their depth chart.
3. WR where Moss has been down dramatically, ARE has been hurt and even lesser players like Thrash and Lloyd have not been there. The Skins are using 3 guys that weren't even on the roster at the start of the season.

Seems like its a combination of too many things gone wrong. Joe's coaching might not have been an issue if tragedies/injuries hadn't hit us so hard.

Even with it all, I the Skins are remarkably close to being 8-4-ish. Criticize all you want, but this has been as brutal a season as I have ever seen for a pro sports team.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 6, 2007 12:53 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1,
nice.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 6, 2007 12:58 PM | Report abuse

He still needs to go for the throat more in the second half when we have the lead. Just because we're winning, we shouldn't be more concerned with taking time off the clock so the other team has less time to score and catch us... we should more concerned with adding to our lead or sustaining it with more points and consistent offensive drives. Stick with what is working unless the other team takes it away. Than we have to adjust accordingly...

Posted by: EinVB | December 6, 2007 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Even with it all, I the Skins are remarkably close to being 8-4-ish. Criticize all you want, but this has been as brutal a season as I have ever seen for a pro sports team.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 6, 2007 12:53 PM

I'd go as far as to say that they're the best 5-7 team in whole league!!

Posted by: gdennie | December 6, 2007 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone really think he's calling 2nd half plays with the strategy of not getting 1st downs? Please. It's execution. It all starts with a stud O-line, which we do not have right now. Hopefully getting Thomas back tonight will help. My point is that he is changing for the better.
Here's my question; what would a different coach do SPECIFICALLY? Throw it more? The past 4 losses have JC dropping back to pass 40, 52, 56, and 35 times. We are not a coach away from the super bowl, we are health/depth/execution.

Posted by: dlhaze | December 6, 2007 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Z, nicely put. You just can't ignore the facts of how this season has played out injury wise.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 6, 2007 1:08 PM | Report abuse


By JULIET MACUR
Published: December 6, 2007
MIAMI, Dec. 5 -- At least two of the four men charged with the murder of the Washington Redskins star Sean Taylor were involved in a burglary of his Miami-area home eight days before his shooting death, a law enforcement official and a lawyer involved in the case said Wednesday.

Neither person wanted to be named because the investigation into Taylor's death remained open, but both confirmed the connection between the previous burglary and the attempted burglary that resulted in Taylor's death.

Football memorabilia belonging to Taylor and large amounts of cash were found in the home of at least one of the defendants in the murder case, the lawyer and the official said

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 1:08 PM | Report abuse

I hope we win tonight, better yet i just hope Coach Joe has read his rule book! No Joe, you can't hold a reciever at all! Seriously, you can't!!!!

But i'm sure he won't, and we will probably kick the ball to Hester, i'm sure of it!!!!

Posted by: redryan400 | December 6, 2007 1:12 PM | Report abuse

All of the counter points against Gibbs are well taken and understood, but I just think that when you look back at where Spurrier left this team, we are leaps and bounds a better team. Even though he did it in 81/82, you can't always build a winner overnight. All I want is for him to stay on for one more year. If they lose for the same frustrating reasons again next year, time to go. I guess I am just more patient than most. Peace out!

Posted by: dlhaze | December 6, 2007 1:14 PM | Report abuse

to me nothing this team can do win/lose/draw. nothing this coach can do. nothing. that'll make it more than "just a game.". entairtainment for 3 hours, a diversion. it's just a game. it's just a season. we got plenty more in us (god willing). this season is over win/lose/draw. we lost our best player to a tragedy THIS season. and people want the players/friends to "win for sean"????

it's over. let people mourn. there were 3000 people at that funeral. i don't rember that many people being at a funeral for someone that didn't matter much to that many people. skins lost a special player, a special person, a game changer. someone that comes along once every 20 years or so.

it's going to take time for this team to recover. it's not going to happen in one week. and the people who are complaing about injuries on the o-line. to them i say yes, it is joe's fault. you thick headed people! this isn't the first year that there have been injuries on the o-line. this is actually 3 or 4 straight years there were injuries on the o-line. and every friggin year they go into the offseason saying they need an offensive line players and they come up with todd wade and stephon heyer. and if that's not good enough for you then IT IS JOE'S FAULT!!! why don't you understand that? if it wasn't for ray brown, a 50 year old amazing o-lineman, there would've been no 5 game win streak. there is no 50 year old amazing o-lineman to save joe's hide anymore.

and gregg williams should be the head coach next year! and you don't have to agree with me on this point to agree with me on the rest of the post.

let this season go! it's over. joe 2 experiment is over. i'm just watching it to see how the young pupps are maturing. landry, mcintosh and jc. and that's good enough for me. i'm in this for a long haul. my championship year expectations have been reset to 4-5 years. and playoff expectations to 2-3 years. and it'll be easier for all of us if you did the same too.

Posted by: dealer | December 6, 2007 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I will say this, with last week's murder of our best player, it was a week that showed Joe Gibbs to be maybe the NFL's best at being a leader of men in crisis.

However, the week ended again with the offense stalling, the terrible clock / timeout errors of Joe Gibbs, and the defense allowing all kinds of yards in the 4th quarter. Neither side of the ball was able to "close the deal".

In one week we all witnessed what was the best and worst of Joe Gibbs.
Now the toughest job is in the lap of Dan Snyder.
Which Joe Gibbs does he want to keep?

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | December 6, 2007 1:17 PM | Report abuse

16. Washington Redskins
Current record: 5-7
Scouts Inc.'s three biggest needs: WR, DE, S
Projected pick: Derrick Harvey*, DE, Florida
Harvey could use another season in Gainesville to improve his bulk and strength, but don't count on him returning. The 6-foot-4, 255-pound junior notched 17.5 sacks the past two seasons and will wow scouts with his speed and athleticism during workouts. Harvey could upgrade the Redskins' perimeter pass rush immediately.

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Sorry If i'm making your life harder dealer; not my intent, but I guess I am just thick headed. I still have hopes for this and next year. Not as much this year mind you.

Posted by: dlhaze | December 6, 2007 1:27 PM | Report abuse

How quickly we only think of Harvey's pass rushing!
Anyone see how many rushing yards the Florida D gave to GA?

If Harvey can't stop the run at 255lbs. you all are going to be thinking Tiki Barber as returned to run for the Giants and over the Skins on his way to 200 yard games!

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | December 6, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I agree with this blog. I love Joe Gibbs! Point blank, but he is not the same coach. I never remember him cowering on the sideline during plays. I don't remember post game interviews where he sounds like a little old lady just happy that his guys "fought hard" and I never remember him attempting to sit on an entire 2nd half to win. He doesn't have the toughness to coach in this league anymore. Put him upstairs or let him bow out gracefully, but Father Joe is done! I'm tired of watching a nervous wreck on the Redskins sideline. We need fire not an old man who looks like his depends are full on the sideline. Joe Gibbs will always and forever be the greatest coach in DC in my eyes. But all great things come to an end.

Posted by: kevinlc555 | December 6, 2007 1:33 PM | Report abuse

JM

Is that your point? A fumble? Well if so, then get Portis off the field. He's fumbled five times this year and lost four of them.

Look, Betts' average carry this year is 3.9 yards. And Portis? 3.9 yards. Not a lot to separate them, is there, except that Portis is a fumbler (five times in 238 carries) and Betts isn't (one time in 67 carries)?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 6, 2007 12:29 PM


One fumble in 67 carries does not mean he is not a fumbler. If you project that out over 238 carries it is almost 4 fumbles, compared to 5 for Portis. Not much difference and neither one of them is doing a very good job of holding onto the ball.

Posted by: frankg | December 6, 2007 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Ricky Ricky Ricky...my goodness...

as long as you don't think Grilliams is the answer... That guy is a friggin joke too. I WANT Cowher! If you can't gimme Cowher, gimme someone else with tenacity and smarts.

so tired...so so tired.

If anyone is short on cash - take the bears and the points tonight. maybe even parlay it with the under. It's thursday...what the hell?

Posted by: Pubgolf | December 6, 2007 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Truth.

Grimm for Head Coach in '08.

Gibbs stays as mentor & team President.

Williams can go if he pleases.

Saunders stays if Grimm so choses.

Make it so!

Posted by: kmag1 | December 6, 2007 1:42 PM | Report abuse

It is in the nature of people to get more and more conservative as they get older. Bringing Gibbs back for 1 more years isn't going to do anything but give us more of the same headaches. It is time to suck it up cut some of the veterans and build around some of the good young pieces we have in #17, #30 and #52. GD our team is old and the effects of Taylor's murder are gonna linger for a long while.

If any of you subscribe to Sports Illustrated, there is a nice article in there about #21. Names Leonard Shapiro and alludes to how he was pretty much a dick for badmouthing a guy who was only hours dead without any facts or circumstances to back it up.

Posted by: cdubb | December 6, 2007 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Way to bring the facts, zcezcest1.

But the one thing you forgot to mention is that all of those things are Joe's fault. (sarcasm)

Posted by: freakzilla | December 6, 2007 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Well said... Kevin.

I personally will not have an opionion on Joe until the season is done. Last week was not your normal week in the NFL, therefore I will give him the pass there who knows what was going on in his mind. I think we should all be a bit more patient there... but I understand how it's so easy to point the finger again after this game when it has just been more of the same crap this year...

I personally choose too step back swallow my pride and fire for this team to succeed and give him and the players the benefit of the doubt against Buffalo.

He may very well be learning from some of his mistaked this year for the better next year. Like the saying goes, "a dog is never to old to learn new tricks"... If that is not the case and he doesn't get and handle on game decisions and this teams real needs( i.e. -referring to Jason's article about not practicing the gametime situation enough) then thank him for everything he's done for this frachise because he will always be a great HOF coach, but his time may be up here in Gibbs 2.0, but because things just aren't working out.

Posted by: EinVB | December 6, 2007 1:46 PM | Report abuse

cdubb, I read that article last night, great piece. In the article Shapiro states that he wishes he waited till he had more information. Too bad he didn't have the seeds to write that for the Post.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | December 6, 2007 1:48 PM | Report abuse

RedskinRay1 I don't know much about him. That what ESPN had us picking.

Posted by: jm220 | December 6, 2007 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I love gibbs, but in my opinion (and i know i may be drilled for saying this), he hamstrings saunders' ability to call a game. this offense has shown that it can be succussful, and borderline spectacular, both through the air and on the ground. gibbs seems to try to input his philosophy on a whim mid-game (which he should, he is the head coach), and it ends up hurting the flow of the offense and the game. sadly i think he needs to go. i actually think this team can win with grilliams stepping up as head coach and saunders having gilliams-like autonomy on offense. that's only my opinion.

Posted by: psps23 | December 6, 2007 1:51 PM | Report abuse

another kind of hammie, psps23.

beep beep

Posted by: _Stumped_ | December 6, 2007 2:11 PM | Report abuse

dlhaze, sorry i didn't even read what you wrote. to the future!

Posted by: dealer | December 6, 2007 2:12 PM | Report abuse

I liked this post. It's a little harsher than I'd state it, and some of the details are off-base, I think, but overall it's solid.

I think Joe Gibbs is a great NFL coach. One of the best ever, and absolutely deserving of his spot in Canton.

But I think that he came back with a little bit less in the tank than he had in the 1980's. I think he lost some of the fire of his youth. He may have been made a little complacent by his successes and his age, and also by the overconfidence of surrounding himself with so many geniuses. I also think it's relevant that the game had changed in his absence. None of these factors is the deal-breaker, but 1 + 1 + 1 +1 and so on... it adds up to a man who can get his team 99% of the way there.

It's in that last 1% where we're breaking down. The lack of identity. The rough edges in play calling and game management. The uneven player acquisitions. And so on.

Don't get me wrong. I think Gibbs has done a GREAT job of resurrecting the pride of this franchise from where Spurrier, Marty, and Norv had taken it. Before Gibbs came in, things looked AWFUL. I don't know who could have given this organization more pride and more spirit and better or any faster.

But I think he's done his job to the limit of his current ability. I think the team would be better off if he hands the baton to someone who can take it from 99% to that almost superhuman 110% level, where it needs to be in order to win.

That's all. Nothing against Joe at all. It's no insult to the man that he can only earn one hall of fame career, instead of two. He's been to the mountain. I think we were all a little naive to think that when he came back, he came back with every tool he had before, every tool he'd need in the new NFL, and all of the energy and enthusiasm and fear/motivation of twenty years ago.

If he retires tomorrow, or at the end of the season, even at 5 and 11, if that were to be the case, I wouldn't diminish his legacy one bit, and I'd thank him sincerely for the time he gave us in coming back.

Posted by: jvwright | December 6, 2007 2:21 PM | Report abuse

But I think he's done his job to the limit of his current ability. I think the team would be better off if he hands the baton to someone who can take it from 99% to that almost superhuman 110% level, where it needs to be in order to win.

That's all. Nothing against Joe at all. It's no insult to the man that he can only earn one hall of fame career, instead of two. He's been to the mountain. I think we were all a little naive to think that when he came back, he came back with every tool he had before, every tool he'd need in the new NFL, and all of the energy and enthusiasm and fear/motivation of twenty years ago.

If he retires tomorrow, or at the end of the season, even at 5 and 11, if that were to be the case, I wouldn't diminish his legacy one bit, and I'd thank him sincerely for the time he gave us in coming back.

Posted by: jvwright | December 6, 2007 02:21 PM

I agree, JVWright. I love Coach Gibbs. I thank him for coming back and resurrecting the pride of the organization. As someone said before, we are heartbreakingly close to being an 8-4 team. We do need someone who can take us the rest of the way there.

Posted by: jaradel | December 6, 2007 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I see an easy win tonight.
Then a revenge game win over giants.
Then a loss on the road to MN
Then a close win at home to Cowboys.

8-8, no playoffs (MN + Giants or New Orleans).

By the way the Buffalo Bills have lost 11 starters I believe. So injuries could be a whole lot worse.

Posted by: cleary900 | December 6, 2007 2:48 PM | Report abuse

To AEE, and any other pseudo-fan out there who dismisses the unprecedented injuries this year, the death of our best player, a QB who is in his first year starting, etc, and only want to blame the person who took us to 4 super bowls as the reason we are 5-7:

Please turn in your redskins replica jersey at the Fed Ex stadium entrance, your fanship is no longer required. The team does not need you. The real fans do not enjoy your presence. You have no respect for the man responsible for our 3 super bowl wins. And your lack of intelligence prevents you from understanding why the team is 5-7. You are the worst kind of fan.

If and when the team wins out and makes the playoffs, you'll be the first one jumping up and down claiming you knew they'd turn it around all along. No doubt you are the same types of people who bash our leaders during a war. The same people who say our president is doing too much in the fight against our enemies, but when our enemies strike next, you'll claim he didn't do enough. You claim you're patriotic, but you wouldn't know patriotism or allegiance if it smacked you in the face.

Just do the team and the rest of us a favor and stop rooting for them...they can do without the fake fans out there...

p.s. yes, i made the analogy that fairweather fans who blame gibbs are similar to those who blame bush for the war. Doesn't matter what your politics are, the point I am making is that it's the same kind of person, the type that wants to put all the blame in the world on one individual. These types of people simply don't have the intelligence to see just how wrong they are.

Posted by: Barno1 | December 6, 2007 2:53 PM | Report abuse

For the people who posted before reading the whole thing.

"Still, between the murder of Sean, and stockpile of injuries, and even the personal tragedies for players like Coach Joe's grandson, and Shawn Springs' father. Its more than what one team can handle. With all this, I expect another poor season."

Jeez, INJURIES is listed right there. Light up, Francis.

Posted by: EckertA | December 6, 2007 3:02 PM | Report abuse

This guy is an idiot. He probably forgets that Joe Gibbs is the reason he cares so much for the 'skins. He won 3 SB's and went to 4. Sure we have had 15 years of gloom, but i will take it because we had some of the best teams in league history.

Hail to Joe Gibbs and the Redskins!

Posted by: jscarman1 | December 6, 2007 3:08 PM | Report abuse

jscarman1,

Amen brotha.

Posted by: Barno1 | December 6, 2007 3:46 PM | Report abuse

p.s. yes, i made the analogy that fairweather fans who blame gibbs are similar to those who blame bush for the war. Doesn't matter what your politics are, the point I am making is that it's the same kind of person, the type that wants to put all the blame in the world on one individual. These types of people simply don't have the intelligence to see just how wrong they are.

Posted by: Barno | December 6, 2007 02:53 PM

Barno,

THIS analogy is dead on!...There ARE similarities between Bush and Gibbs. They ARE THE LEADERS and therefore, their decisions, ultimately, do play a part, a major frickin' part in the outcome!!! And there decisions can be scrutinized!

Whether it's a game...or a war, these men are given the the largest amount of latitude and discretion on what direction their organization, team, or country is going to do. It's a given that that they should make these important decisions because they have the most information, knowledge, and intelligence at their disposal. The fact that, as leaders, that they have the most control and the most information coupled with the ability to continue to make decisions on the direction of their team, their organization, or their country CERTAINLY allows one to question those decisions! It comes with the job...and blind faith will not cut it! I love JG and am 'old school' (senior year of HS when we won our 1st SB under Gibbs) but the questioning is certainly warranted.

As far as Bush and the war...that damn fool put us there under highly questionable circumstances as we found out at a much later time...his 'leadership' during this time has been pathetic, bordering on criminal....and the only person who doesn't "have the intelligence to see just how wrong they are"...is you.

Posted by: seanc | December 6, 2007 4:01 PM | Report abuse

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