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Torrence Shocked By Release

The Washington Redskins released cornerback Leigh Torrence to make room for corner DeAngelo Hall, a move that surprised many players. Hall's signing was looming, after he agreed to terms with the Redskins on Friday, but rather than release a little-used player or place injured receiver Malcolm Kelly on injured reserve, the team let go a promising young corner who had served as a nickel back and special teams standout.

"I'm about to cry," one Redskin said when informed that Torrence was on waivers. "Why would they let Leigh go? That dude did a good job for us and was only getting better. That doesn't make sense."

Philadelphia and Baltimore have been among the teams looking at corners recently, and with little talent in the free agent market there now, one NFL executive suggested those teams, New England, and maybe the New York Giants as teams that might claim Torrence.

The Redskins opted to keep rookie corner Justin Tryon, a fourth-round pick who has almost never seen the field on defense this season and who could have been placed on the practice squad had he cleared waivers. Other draft picks who played sparingly, like end Rob Jackson, were awaiting this move with a bit of uncertainty as well, and Torrence was stunned when his agent received a phone call this afternoon informing him he was on waivers.

The Redskins announced the signing of Hall in a press release today, but included no statements from Vice President of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato about the roster moves.

"Leigh was totally surprised," said Tony Paige, Torrence's agent. "He's an ascending young corner, a smart kid, great in the community, outstanding on special teams, does all the right things. The other players like him, he performs well in coverage, he's outstanding on special teams. I don't think it will be long before we hear from some teams. I know there will be interest in Leigh."

Torrence, 26, who was in his second season with the Redskins, would clear waivers Monday if not claimed. Torrence, who fills keys roles on special teams, has been playing nickel (inside) corner in five-defensive back packages while corner Shawn Springs has been injured, and has impressed teammates with his work. He and Springs were the only corners who played that inside technique regularly; Hall has been an outside corner during his career, which could leave the team short should Springs suffer another injury.

Torrence (5-11, 179 pounds), was signed as a free agent by Washington in 2006 after spending 2005 with Atlanta. The Stanford grad played regularly last season with corner Carlos Rogers injured, and although he was not seasoned enough for a prominent role, Torrence was making plays in the nickel package and was considered better on many matchups in the slot than other depth corners.

The Redskins opted to retain all 10 of their draft picks to open the season, even though most of them had not shined, and were criticized by some players, publicly and privately. Keeping a rookie like Tryon over Torrence now shocked some veterans, though perhaps he and other members of the class will distinguish themselves over time.

Hall, 24, has 20 career interceptions and will join the team for practice Monday after the bye this weekend. The Virginia native and Virginia Tech product was released by Oakland this week and has clashed with teammates and coaches in the past. He chose the Redskins over other suitors based on the team's location near him home, their record, and the type of defense they play, signing a one-year deal worth approximately $500,000 for the remainder of the season.

By Jason La Canfora  |  November 8, 2008; 12:46 PM ET
 
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Next: Two Takes On Torrence's Release

Comments

He was probably the FIRST one to be shocked.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Damn can you please get off the draft picks! You know damn well if they didn't keep them you would be blasting the team about that.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Jasno has this little disclaimer to cover himself in case they do pan out. Then he can say he was right all along.

"though perhaps he and other members of the class will distinguish themselves over time. "

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 8, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

+++Definitely a talent upgrade from Torrence...

Posted by: p1funk++++

I saw Hall beaten eight times by Eddie Royal in one game. And I saw him get so frustrated by his national embarrassment he got called for at least one, and I think two personal fouls.

If Blache and Grey have determined Torrence isn't worth keeping, obviously I accept that. If it was Cerrato making the decision to cut him and keep his draft pick Tryon--well I wouldn't be surprised.

And a punt returner and backup nickle back, Hall is probably worth what they are paying to rent him. But as a starting corner, he's a sieve.

He makes Ade Jimoh look like Darrell Green in his prime.

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

"Leigh was totally surprised," said Tony Paige, Torrence's agent. "He's an ascending young corner, a smart kid, great in the community, outstanding on special teams, does all the right things. The other players like him, he performs well in coverage, he's outstanding on special teams. I don't think it will be long before we hear from some teams. I know there will be interest in Leigh."

By Jason La Canfora | November 8, 2008; 12:46 PM ET

Oh sure, Mr. Super Agent. Leigh Torrence will probably sign on as a dime back with Balmer or some other talent-starved club in a week or two.

But, if we'd cut Tryon, he'd be starting as the shut down corner for either New England or Pittsburgh this Sunday. So, that's why Leigh got the call.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

ice, theres a difference between admitting you made some draft mistakes and letting a player or two leave and keeping those players around to cover your butt (even if most of us are aware of whats going on).

Posted by: TheGreat8 | November 8, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

+++He was probably the FIRST one to be shocked.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

---

Damn can you please get off the draft picks! You know damn well if they didn't keep them you would be blasting the team about that.

JM220+++

Wow, Vinny makes you guys work during the bye week? And they gave Brownwood Greg the week off?

Hey hey hey. we kid because we love.

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMhL6qnVWq0

By the time Leigh Torrence gets his head turned...

Lest we forget.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | November 8, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

It sure looks like Vinnie is protecting his draft picks to me. Either that or he's cutting Leigh because of the one St. Louis Ram play.

From JLC Hall's Signing article -

PJnMD wrote:

TIME TO PUT A SKIRT ON CRY BABY CAMPBEL, AND ITS TYPICAL FOR DEADSKIN PLAYERS TO TRY AND MAKE A STATEMENT WHEN THEY CHANGE THE STANDARD UNIFORM, LOOK AT THOSE SILLY SHOES THAT CAMPBELL AND DUMB AZZ PORTIS WEARS, COUPLE OTHER HALF ASZ PLAYERS WEAR THEM ALSO. WONDER IF DUMB ASZ PORTIS STILL WEARS THE 21 JERSEN UNDER HIS PADS??? BACK WHEN HE WORE IT IT WAS JUST FOR ATTENTION, HE CANT PLAY UNLESS HE GETS ATTENTION, HE HAS TO BE , WELL ACTUALY THINK HE'S A FOOTBALL STAR, HOPEFULLY SOMEONE WILL PUT HIM OUT OF HIS MISSERY WHEN THE COWBOYS COME TO LANDOVER.

11/8/2008 5:32:26 AM

It looks like BOOFER is back.

Posted by: charley42 | November 8, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Say what you will about Jason's criticism of the draft class, cutting Torrence was a stupid move. He's popular in the locker room and he's a good player - why not cut Mike Green - move Springs to safety. We don't need Green at all. Or cut Shaun Alexander who is unbelievably slow. If Hall doesn't resign with us in the offseason, we'll miss Torrence a lot next year. Tryon is short and mediocre. Maybe he'll get better, but Torrence was very solid right now.

Posted by: vjr9r | November 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

No it's nothing like that. But I think it is sad that JLC is trying to judge the rookies after 8 games. Hell come on anyone who knows anything about football knows you have to give a rooke 2-3 years before you know if they will make it or not. It's sad some of you will defend this foolishness. I don't care if it was my son. Wrong and is wrong and I don't stand with wrong and JLC is wrong on this one and letting his dislike for Vinny and Dan get in the way of his reporting.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Now im sad...they should have released Alexander...he's no use...Betts is coming back soon and Alexander gets one carry per game and gets like 3 yards...but most of all, they should have released Tryon...Leigh has more upside than Tryon, i mean we saw what Tryon could do in the preseason, which was not a lot...Vinny just didn't want to throw away another draft pick and make himself look dumb...Bye Leigh :(

Posted by: rachel216 | November 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

The constant harping about JLaC's opinions are getting old.

That said, it's beyond me why there is any gnashing of the teeth for a fourth/fifth corner on a roster with a Pro Bowler (Springs), a possible Pro Bowler (Rogers), a solid corner (Smoot), and a potentially great corner (Hall).

I know we're 'Skins fans and it's our moral obligation to obsess over every minute detail on the roster, but come on. It almost makes me wish we had another punter controversy.

Posted by: PDiddy | November 8, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Will you give it a rest about the draft choices already? Thomas and Kelly have been hurt. Besides, it takes a couple of years to fully evaluate a draft class. Think anyone would have credited the Redskins for having a killer 2005 draft halfway through that season? No, but Rogers and Campbell were the cream of the first round. Give this year's group some time.

As for Torrence, we're talking about a player who'd been in the league for five years and was still just another guy. Tryon may or may not ever become a starter, but at least he's young enough to still have an upside. It's hard to imagine he won't at least be as productive as Torrence -- who apparently devoted at least as much effort to campaigning for Democratic candidates as he did playing football in the nation's capitol.

And the clincher is that you found one of Torrence's buddies who's all choked up about it? Please. The only thing that chokes me up about Torrence is the memory of him getting torched on that last-minute reception that lost the Rams game for us.

Posted by: editor7 | November 8, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Can't say I am too surprised by this move. Of course I do not have the benefit of watching our team in practice and the only film I have of them is what is shown on the tube, so I have to trust in Zorn, Blache and Gray.

Go Skins!!

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 8, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I agree, Curz. This is clearly a decision made by the coaching staff.

Torrence was a gunner on punt coverage. There have been several balls the last two games that bounced inside the 10, should have been downed, but Torrence couldn't make the play. I don't know who will be taking his place, but he was not effective there.

The staff has to be grading Teams, as well as our nickel backs. Apparently Leigh just wasn't getting it done.

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Torrence stinks and if the skins didn't have god awful pick Tryon on the roster I would be all over this decision, but during the exhibition season Tryon didn't look like he could cover a high school wideout.

Posted by: tkoho | November 8, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

As for Torrence, we're talking about a player who'd been in the league for five years and was still just another guy

I couldn't agree more.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Jason,

I'm not sure I understand why you keep mentioning putting Kelly on IR. Zorn has said that if they decided to put Malcolm on IR, they would sign another WR to the team. They're not going to give up on the season for Malcolm and replace him with a defensive player..

Posted by: dford525 | November 8, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

This only heightens that feeling during the draft that Cerrato & all were pulling strings to keep their draft picks. I mean, the one rookie we did cut, look how long it took us to make that decision?

On a completely different topic, does any else find it a bit odd that Dallas has the same bye week right before we play them? It makes me wonder how much the NFL considers marketing in making the schedule.

Posted by: Josh7 | November 8, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

I was down with the Hall signing but have to admit I'm sad about Torrence getting cut. He was a great locker room guy and very tight with his teammates. Sure this will not go over well with them.

It's like Ryan Clark all over again.

Posted by: Lisa_R | November 8, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Come on dford525 you know you can't point out where JLC wrong. That would mean you are in the tank for Vinny and Dan. That would mean you know how to use your own brains and common sense. We can't have that happen up here or you are bashing JLC.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I think one of the reasons JLC and others are knocking the draft class is because we were led to believe by Vinnie and Co. that Thomas and Kelly were going to be impact players. That hasn't been the case. We are not getting anything from them so the criticism is valid.

Posted by: nicefellow31 | November 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

the clincher is that you found one of Torrence's buddies who's all choked up about it? Please. The only thing that chokes me up about Torrence is the memory of him getting torched on that last-minute reception that lost the Rams game for us.

Posted by: editor7 | November 8, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse
Right on. Torrence was with the team for two years. Of course he made some close friends. That doesn't determine who fits best on the 53-man squad.

If Hall is going to be the nickel back, we don't need another nickel back. Hall is bigger by 15-20 pounds, has better speed.

Apparently Tryon has more long-term upside, as judged by Blache and Danny Smith. These guys have been around for a long time, certainly know how to evaluate talent and potential.

I'm just excited that we were able to sign Hall, and can't wait to see him in the "maroon and black".

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Round 1 - Pick 18 (18th) - Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware
Round 2 - Pick 24 (55th) - Ray Rice, RB, Rutgers
Round 3 - Pick 8 (71st) - Tavares Gooden, LB, Miami
Round 3 - Pick 23 (86th) - Tom Zbikowski, S, Notre Dame
Round 3 - Pick 36 (99th) - Oniel Cousins, OT, UTEP
Round 4 - Pick 7 (106th) - Marcus Smith, WR, New Mexico
Round 4 - Pick 34 (133th) - Dave Hale, OT, Weber St.
Round 6 - Pick 40 (206th) - Haruki Nakamura, S, Cincinnati
Round 7 - Pick 8 (215th)- Justin Harper, WR, Virginia Tech
Round 7 - Pick 33 (240th) - Allen Patrick, RB, Oklahoma

These players sure are all in for rookies of the year. Hell Flacco own players said he shouldn't be a starter. Maybe you should look at your own home before judging our draft class.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Both Torrence & Tryon are painful to watch.
For their size & speed, they should be extremely athletic, but neither can even get their heads turned around as the pass arrives.
Good riddance.

Posted by: gary431 | November 8, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

This is another stupid move by the team and makes me wonder how much "SAY" Blache really has with the team. Why wouldn't you cut Alexander, he's done nothing. How about Rob Jackson? Mike Green? Kelly on IR? Torrence is a ST beast and he's only had one bad play this season for the most part, he's where he's supposed to be. He's played better than Smoot this season and obviously he's better than Tryon who's yet to see the field. Stupid move and typical of the team I love.

Posted by: PEACE8 | November 8, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

He's played better than Smoot this season and

What ever you smoking over there Peace8 put that sht down. lol

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Tryon, Green or Keebler (Alexander) should have been the player waived here. I really don't understand this front office. Everytime they do something I like, they then turn around and do something stupid.

Signing Alexander was stupid, while Mason was on Baltimore's practice Squad. Signing Hall was smart. Releasing Torrence was not.

I am starting to buy the whole "retaining draftees for the sake of making Vinny look competent" idea. Why not cut Tryon and put him back on the Practice squad once he clears waivers? You could then release non-talents like Byron Westbrook.....

Posted by: keino83 | November 8, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Hard to remember anyone other then JLC saying a second round pick is going to be an impact player eight games into their rookie season... I always thought it took three years to make that kind of determination.

Posted by: siris | November 8, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

"This is clearly a decision made by the coaching staff."

Really? How many times has Justin Tryon seen the field this season? What possibly makes you think the coaching staff would rather have Tryon than Torrence right now? And yes, coaches are paid to win RIGHT NOW, especially on a 6-3 team with serious postseason aspirations.

"As for Torrence, we're talking about a player who'd been in the league for five years and was still just another guy"

Yea, he was "another guy" who happened to play nickelback for the #4 ranked defense in the league for a majority of this season, and even started/played nickel for a chunk last season for the #8 ranked defense in the league.

"Tryon may or may not ever become a starter, but at least he's young enough to still have an upside. It's hard to imagine he won't at least be as productive as Torrence"

Hard to imagine? What possibly have you seen from Tryon that makes you feel like he could be a nickel-back, play the slot, or even play one of the top 2 corners on occasion in this league for a top defense?

No, what's hard to imagine is Tryon ever becoming a better corner than Torrence is right now. Torrence should not have been cut. Tryon has been a waste of a roster spot all season, and he will continue to be until the day he matures and MAYBE becomes the caliber player that Torrence is right now, being trusted as the dimeback.

I see this as a move that's done with nothing more than Tryon being a draft pick in mind. I didn't think he should have made the team over Matteral Richardson during the preseason, but now to cut Torrence over him? Wow, just wow.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

"I'm about to cry," one Redskin said????????

If a player said that, it HAD to be sarcastic.

At any rate, Torrence hasn't done anything of note except be out of position on a couple of keys plays.

He's only been here three years, didn't play at all in '06, made 1 start in '07 and 0 starts this year.

Life goes on.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 8, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Also, the team seems too often to come close to downing a punt inside the 5, only for the ball to barely hop over the goal line. Receiver James Thrash used to excel at that role, and lately Plackememier has applied a little too much spin or gotten not enough hang time, to let Leigh Torrence pull the ball in, and sometimes Torrence seems to be a fraction late as well. A few more of those would go a long way.

By Jason La Canfora | November 6, 2008; 7:34 AM ET

I'm thinking that Jasno's earlier criticism was instrumental in getting Torrence off the team. Way to go Jasno. Not sure why you or anyone else is surprised that he's gone after you lowered the boom on the guy.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

It's not always true that a rookie needs 2-3 years to develop...look at Desean Jackson, Eddie Royal...

Posted by: rachel216 | November 8, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Jasno's version:

"I'm about to cry," one Redskin said when informed that Torrence was on waivers. "Why would they let Leigh go? That dude did a good job for us and was only getting better. That doesn't make sense."
-----------------------------------
Reality:

"I'm about to cry," former Redskin Derrick Frost said when informed that Torrence was on waivers. "Why would they let Leigh go? That dude did a good job for us and was only getting better. That doesn't make sense."

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 8, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Vinny makes you guys work during the bye week?

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 1:07 PM |

Vinny doesn't "make" us do anything. We're union guys. Time and a half for weekends. Double time for the bye week. So, bye week weekends is triple time. We're happy to be here.

And you, what's your deal? How's Jasno compensate you for kissing his butt?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm also surprised Torrence was cut over Tryon, but obviously the coaches believe Justin is better or has more upside than Leigh. Torrence was an average 4th CB and special teams player, however, it's pretty clear that the Skins CBs (Springs, Rogers, Smoot, Hall, and Tryon) have been upgraded by the move.

The punt return teams have been terrible! I believe this move confirms the coaches recognize the deficiency and plan to improve the unit. Hall will probably be the new PR. I'm not sure who will fill the gunner role opposite of Rock... Perhaps Thrash or Thomas?

Posted by: siris | November 8, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Stop it right now TE. How dare you show how JLC flip flop to fit his agenda! LMAO

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I'm also surprised Torrence was cut over Tryon, but obviously the coaches believe Justin is better or has more upside than Leigh.

Posted by: siris | November 8, 2008 1:58 PM |

Yeah, but what do they know? Sure they see him in practice everyday, but they probably didn't see what we saw in that pre-season game. I'll bet they never even looked at the films.

They're probably furious at Vinny who, after all, wants to put the worst players on the roster so that he will look good. That's how a GM looks good. He puts bad players on the roster and cuts good players.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

If Blache and Gray really thought we needed Torrence to be successful, he'd still be here. He was going to be the 5th CB. He has 16 tackles and 2 passes defended in 9 games. Not 1 career INT. Who cares if he got cut.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 8, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

If we can't sign Hall long-term, this is going to be a huge mistake. To go deep in this league, you need 4th corners like Leigh Torrence.

Justin Tryon = Ade Jimoh '08

Posted by: drischord | November 8, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

it had to be done......Leigh was a devout Obama supporter

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | November 8, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

curzon, What's wrong with you? None of us get to see him in practice, but ALL of us know this stuff better than Zorn, Blache, or Gray. Be a man -- just say which one is better.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Perfectly stated t_e!!!

Why are there people having a cow over releasing the FOURTH string CB? Like it or not, Tryon DOES have more upside, because we already KNOW FOR SURE that Torrence will never be more than a 3rd or fourth stringer. Tryon has only looked bad in preseason, AS A ROOKIE! DUH!!!! All rookie CBs look bad in preseason, heck, most look bad their ENTIRE ROOKIE SEASON TOO!!!!!

Chill out people, Hall is an upgrade over Torrence, PERIOD.

I am a bit concerned now though about Betts. They must not think he's ready to go, and that I am worried about. Betts is easily a better back than SA, and we'll need him down the stretch.

How about JLC do some "insider" work and find out what's the deal with Betts? And Kelly to IR has nothing to do who was gonna be cut for Hall, a wide out is gonna have that spot no matter who it is.

What a tool, keep blowin' the hate JLC! Your definitely good at it!

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

plus...Leigh's cousin has a son who plays on my son's AAU basketball team. The dude never got us tickets. Good riddance.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | November 8, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

They're probably furious at Vinny who, after all, wants to put the worst players on the roster so that he will look good. That's how a GM looks good. He puts bad players on the roster and cuts good players.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

Actually, that would require an ability to judge talent flawlessly, even if it is to find out who the worst players are.

Vinny doesn't have that. No GM does. But keep thinking he's an infallible, omniscient talent-evaluating G0D. No way can he make a mistake. No way.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Yeah TE -- most of the fans are basing their opinion of Tyron on a single pre-season game, where (I believe) the coaches hung him out to dry as an initiation into the league...

Posted by: siris | November 8, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

He has 16 tackles and 2 passes defended in 9 games. Not 1 career INT. Who cares if he got cut.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 8, 2008 2:06 PM

Man, are you sure about these numbers? This is a little different from what Jasno wrote above:

"Torrence, who fills keys roles on special teams, has been playing nickel (inside) corner in five-defensive back packages while corner Shawn Springs has been injured, and has impressed teammates with his work. He and Springs were the only corners who played that inside technique regularly. Torrence was making plays in the nickel package and was considered better on many matchups in the slot than other depth corners."

Either your numbers are wrong or Jasno is overplaying his hand. Torrence is the glue that's held the defense together.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Some of you people amaze me. If they cut a player picked in the draft, we will obviously say it was a wasted draft pick. If we keep the drafted player, then it's Cerrato's pulling the strings to keep his draft picks.

Posted by: signicolls_03 | November 8, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

And for all the people who think Vinny is calling all the shots with the roster moves, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY EVIDENCE to that effect?

Or just that "hater" hopeful thinking? Personally, the S Alexander and Mike Green signings showed me that it's Zorn and Blache making the decisions. Has Vinny(or Gibbs) ever worked with any Seattle people before? Other than Springs? Signing THREE former Seahawks (one who played for Blache in Chicago) shows Zorn and Blache are in control of this roster, NOT VINNY!

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

C'mon people!!! Cry me a freakin' river...

Leigh Torrence STINKS...He was lost on that pass play that cost us the Rams game. I guaruntee that D'Angelo Hall is better than Torrence

Let's not make him into Lester Hayes!

Posted by: rickyroge | November 8, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

If we can't sign Hall long-term, this is going to be a huge mistake. To go deep in this league, you need 4th corners like Leigh Torrence.

Posted by: drischord | November 8, 2008 2:07 PM |

Not to fear. If we want Leigh Torrence back, we can sign him. Do you think he's about to get a three-year deal with the Patriots or the Steelers?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Vinny doesn't "make" us do anything. We're union guys. Time and a half for weekends. Double time for the bye week. So, bye week weekends is triple time. We're happy to be here.
....
Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse
=============================================
D00d! You didn't get the special "Bye Week Saturday RI Bash JLC Bonus™"?

Ooops, I've said too much.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | November 8, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Cutting Leigh is like cutting Ryan Clark. He was a outstanding locker room guy, who the players went to for political advise, voter registration, he also lead many team educational activities within the locker room. According to Doc Walker the locker is not strong, but stable. If taking a loved player out of the locker room, even if his contributions on the team are not one of elite caliber, leadership is leadership.

Posted by: ynotcaruso | November 8, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 8, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Some of you people amaze me. If they cut a player picked in the draft, we will obviously say it was a wasted draft pick. If we keep the drafted player, then it's Cerrato's pulling the strings to keep his draft picks.

Posted by: signicolls_03

You're missing one important scenario.

If he keeps the pick and the pick performs well, we give all the praise in the world to Vinny. EX: Chris Horton. Excellent job with Horton, Vinny!!!

Now, if he cuts a rookie, yes it was a wasted pick. If he keeps a rookie that doesn't pan out, then it was a wasted pick AND a wasted roster spot AND possibly a wasted asset (as another player had to be cut).

Sorry that some people here like to tell it how they see it.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

yeah...it was kinda like going to the Enron CEO for financial advice.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | November 8, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Well, yeah, we all know Torrence was about to breakout into a probowl 4th or 5th corner, he'll get mega millions from either the Steelers or Patriots for sure, dam, that means he might help them beat us in the Super Bowl if we make it. What a huge mistake! OOOOO MMMM GGGGG!!!!!

We're doomed! Doomed I tell ya!!! Dooooommmmed!!!!

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Torrence is NOT Ryan Clark, Clark actually makes plays once in a while. While Torrence did make a few plays, I don't recall anybody ever saying we needed to get him on the field MORE.

Tryon hasn't proven anything yet, good or bad, Torrence is a KNOWN quantity, and there ain't much there.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

If he keeps a rookie that doesn't pan out, then it was a wasted pick AND a wasted roster spot AND possibly a wasted asset (as another player had to be cut).

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 2:17 PM |

That's clever, spiz. I'm trying to recall all the "wasted assets" -- players we cut who have worked out well elsewhere this year. McMullen? Cut by Seattle. Mason? Hasn't played in a game yet for the Jets. Who else? Help me with this.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

man that youtube clip makes me sad...starts with showing how much we were dominating that game, 129 yards to 4...

*vomits*

Posted by: bms46and2 | November 8, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

The New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints and Pittsburgh Steelers were among the teams aggressively recruiting Hall.


DeAngelo Hall is a free agent at the end of the season, but the Redskins have him for now, Matt Mosley writes. Blog

• Blogs: NFC East | NFL
A source close to the Redskins said Hall spoke with Redskins coach Jim Zorn and some of Zorn's assistants before accepting a contract, and that team owner Daniel Snyder met with defensive captains London Fletcher and Cornelius Griffin to gauge their opinion of the move.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

JLC makes Torrence sound every bit as good as Frosty.

Oh, wait, never mind...

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 8, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Not getting my point Craig2. Sometimes guys are more important in the locker room than they are on the field. Leigh, Ryan Clark and Brian Mitchell. Brian Mitchell was cut for Deon, even if Mitchell did well on the field he even shined more as a locker room guy.

Posted by: ynotcaruso | November 8, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

"team owner Daniel Snyder met with defensive captains London Fletcher and Cornelius Griffin to gauge their opinion of the move."


God, this sucks. Six Flags stock is selling for $.35 a share and the owner's meeting with players to see if they'll bad mouth DeAngelo Hall? There's a billionaire who has his priorities straight.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Another very valid point from Schefter:

What’s just as notable as the team cornerback DeAngelo Hall chose are the ones he didn’t.

Hall heard from Patriots coach Bill Belichick and Steelers coach Mike Tomlin, each of whom tried to persuade the former Raiders cornerback to sign with his respective team.

(Random question: If Hall was such a bad influence, why did two of the most respected defensive-minded head coaches in the game pursue him the way they did?)

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 8, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Torrence sucked I'm glad they got rid of him. He constantly got beat deep on defense and never made the blocks on special teams. You'd always see the man he was supposed to block on punts the first one down to make the tackle. He was awful, good move by the Skins.

Posted by: RiggoisDrunk | November 8, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Hall heard from Patriots coach Bill Belichick and Steelers coach Mike Tomlin, each of whom tried to persuade the former Raiders cornerback to sign with his respective team.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 8, 2008 2:31 PM |

And, if Torrence clears waivers will these guys be calling him on Monday? Probably if they're interested they'll claim him off waivers as his salary is league minimum.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Comparing Torrence to Ryan Clark was a stretch but now Brian Mitchell is outlandish. These guys are playing for a professional sports franchise, not the United Way. Being a good locker room guy should not keep him around if the coaches deemed him as expendable.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 8, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

The Post makes Torrence seem the second coming of Darrell Green. The guy was perpetually and inevitably beaten on big plays. Hall is a moron but surely can do no worse.

Posted by: soulmeld | November 8, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Not getting my point Craig2. Sometimes guys are more important in the locker room than they are on the field. Leigh, Ryan Clark and Brian Mitchell. Brian Mitchell was cut for Deon, even if Mitchell did well on the field he even shined more as a locker room guy.

Posted by: ynotcaruso | November 8, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Maybe I hadn't yet, but let's be realistic, do you really think Torrence was a "locker room" leader? C'mon, really? And Mitchell was cut because Turner couln't stop Danny from doing ANYthing then. Man, you brought up some bad memeories with that one!

This isn't even a little comparable. Clark and B. Mitch were both very productive players. Torrence? Uuuumm... not so much.

I do get your point, but I really don't see it as being applicable in this case. If Springs, or Smoot, then OMG! yes, but Torrence?

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

+++Will you give it a rest about the draft choices already? Thomas and Kelly have been hurt. Besides, it takes a couple of years to fully evaluate a draft class.--EDITOR?+++

Not only No, but Hail no I won't give it a rest.

If the skins expected to go deep into the playoffs this year, it makes sense to take a chance of Jason Taylor and Deangelo Hall. Both are short term fill ins. BUT if that is the case, you draft to help YOURSELF NOW! Not all ten draftees, but, say 3-4 of them.

But the skins spent three second round picks and DID NOT help themselves this year at receiver. Meanwhile DeSean Jackson, Donnie Avery and Eddie Royal--also second rounders--are having spectacular seasons this year.

Meanwile you and other Vinny supporters attempt to rewrite history by ignoring the fact that redskins Head coach said the reason Thomas and Kelly got hurt and behind in their development is BECAUSE THEY SHOWED UP OUT OF SHAPE.

So no the competency of the front office in personnel acquisition is very much a topic for discussion, whether you wish it would go away or not.

.


Think anyone would have credited the Redskins for having a killer 2005 draft halfway through that season? No, but Rogers and Campbell were the cream of the first round. Give this year's group some time.

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

++++But, if we'd cut Tryon, he'd be starting as the shut down corner for either New England or Pittsburgh this Sunday. So, that's why Leigh got the call.

Posted by: talent_evaluator ++++

Now THAT's funny

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Matt, over at the Skins' blog put this into perspective very nicely I think:

"There’s no press conference, no immediate media availability, nothing like that. As with Shaun Alexander, this signing is being handled more like what you’d expect based on the guy’s current role (as a bottom of the roster midseason move) than on his previous accomplishments, which strikes me as a good approach."

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I saw Hall beaten eight times by Eddie Royal in one game. And I saw him get so frustrated by his national embarrassment he got called for at least one, and I think two personal fouls.

If Blache and Grey have determined Torrence isn't worth keeping, obviously I accept that.

And a punt returner and nickle back is probably worth what they are paying to rent Hall. But as a starting corner, he's a sieve.

He makes Ade Jimoh look like Darrell Green in his prime.

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Hall also went to 2 Pro Bowls coming out of his rookie year. I'm prepared to give him a mulligan on his time in Oakland given the circumstances. At 24 with the talent he's got with good coaching and a functional team, it's definitely worth a try.

Not to mention that Eddie Royal has been abusing virtually everyone he's played against.

Bottom line - Having DeAngelo over Leigh Torrence as our 3rd CB is a no-brainer.

Posted by: p1funk | November 8, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Think anyone would have credited the Redskins for having a killer 2005 draft halfway through that season? No, but Rogers and Campbell were the cream of the first round. Give this year's group some time.

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

OH MY GOOOOD!

Cork, I think this is the only thing I have ever seen from you that actually makes sense. Dam, just when I had totally written you off, you go and do this.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

++++No it's nothing like that. But I think it is sad that JLC is trying to judge the rookies after 8 games. Hell come on anyone who knows anything about football knows you have to give a rooke 2-3 years before you know if they will make it or not.

JM220+++

Now you Vinnyhaulics are just being plain silly. Did or did not the redskins bring iN Jason Taylor and now D. Hall to help reach the playoffs THIS YEAR?

Were there draftable receievrs who could have helped the Redskins reachs the playoffs THIS YEAR?

Yes, three superb ones. THEY didn't take 2-3 years to "know if they will make it or not."

Last point: When your football analysis skills are as suspect as yours, best not to preach about what qualifies someone to know anything about football.


Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Guys, I'm not saying Leigh was the caliber player Brian Mitchell was, I'm just making a point that if you take away a good locker room guy and replace him with a questionable one are you not still missing a cog in the locker room. When Clark was not resigned, the media and us did not think it was a big deal, but eventually it came out that he was a vital part in the locker room. Not saying Leigh is as vital, it does not matter, but I feel there might have been a more reasonable cut that would not affect the locker room as much as this cut.

Posted by: ynotcaruso | November 8, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Think anyone would have credited the Redskins for having a killer 2005 draft halfway through that season? No, but Rogers and Campbell were the cream of the first round. Give this year's group some time.

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

OH MY GOOOOD!

Cork, I think this is the only thing I have ever seen from you that actually makes sense. Dam, just when I had totally written you off, you go and do this.

Posted by: craig2


Well that would be one more time than you've written anything that makes sense here. BUT....it was a reverse loseable type situation where what someone else wrote accidently got posted as my opinion, which I assure you, it is not.

Have you bought a thesaurus yet?

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

The Post makes Torrence seem the second coming of Darrell Green. The guy was perpetually and inevitably beaten on big plays.

Posted by: soulmeld

Really? Was Torrence the one who was beat on the Hines Ward PI? Was Torrence the one who was beat on the Nate Washington bomb? Was Torrence beat on 1 v 1 coverage for the Hines Ward TD.

How about earlier in the season. Was Torrence beat on the Miles Austin TD at Dallas? How about the TO TD? What about the Anquan Boldin TD vs ARI? Larry Fitzgerald TD? Robert Meachem TD vs NO? Was he responsible at all for picking up Plaxico in week 1 when he torched us? How about the Calvin Johnson TD vs Detroit? Was that him also?

People remember one play that Torrence was beat on, and it was a great play by the WR to make an extremely difficult adjustment vs. good coverage. That's it. Now people want to say he was "perpetually and inevitably beaten on big plays".

I guess when you make up your own reality...

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I did not like how Tryon looked in preseason. But he's obviously a project. With 4 CBs already on the roster (Rogers, Smoot, Torrence, Springs), they obviously weren't expecting him to contribute this year.

Let's not act like it is a completely insane move to keep a rookie that they are trying to develop on the roster.

And JLC needs to stop acting like every roster move is motivated by a conspiracy to make Vinny's draft look good...let it go already...

Posted by: p1funk | November 8, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Talent Evaluator. Just as big an in-the-tank Vinny suckup as JM220 and Craig2, but at least with a sense of humor. You GO Girl!

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

JLC you are a MORON!

Get off the Malcolm Keely to IR thing! If he goes on IR the 'Skins will use that roster spot for a new WR, Zorn said as much. So they were NEVER going to IR Kelly to make room for Hall....NEVER! Use your friggin Noodle!

Regarding Torrence, I liked the guy. He was flawed but had great potential.

But the Fact is, they talked to everyone from "A to Zorn" before they got Hall. So I think Blache and Gray got their say.
Remember, THEY KNOW BETTER THAN WE DO!

Get over the draft already. Shuler/Westbrook days are long gone, the Redskins regardless of how many pick they have....DRAFT GREAT!

Betts, Blades, Campbell, Cartwright, Cooley, Doughty, Golston, Horton, Jansen, Landry, McIntosh, Montgomery, Rogers, Samuels, Smoot, Sean Taylor...Don't forget A. Pierce and D. Dockery...ALL REDSKIN DRAFT PICKS!

Guys found from out of nowhere? Heyer, L. Alexander, Mike Sellers, Thrash.

So I think like our chances with Thomas, Kelly, Davis, Tryon, Moore, Brennan.

...and keeping Brooks was no worse than keeping Frost...ask Green Bay!


You may not like Vinny, but he's easily a top ten GM.

Posted by: filmchis | November 8, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Just realized the BEST THING about the deAngelo Hall signing. If it wasn't for that, this forum might have gotten civil during the bye week.

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Sorry that some people here like to tell it how they see it.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse
The problem is, we don't see it like the coaches see it...in slow motion, these guys get rated on every play. In practices, the coaches see them every day. Practices are taped, and reviewed by the coaches.

Then the COACHES make roster decisions, based on how these guys show up in practices and games.

Don't assume that you are more informed than the coaches, who are making these decisions.

It's our job to support the team, and get excited about STOMPING THE GIRLS!

WE WANT DALLAS! HTTR!

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Last point: When your football analysis skills are as suspect as yours, best not to preach about what qualifies someone to know anything about football.
Posted by: TheCork

I won't lower myself to your level and get into name calling to make my point. Listen to anyone that does it for a living and they will say 2-3 years. Look at how many came out and had a good first year and turn out to be a bust. That's is the way they say 2-3 years. Are you going to have some like Moss and Petterson and others? Of course but not many.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

>>But the skins spent three second round picks and DID NOT help themselves this year at receiver. Meanwhile DeSean Jackson, Donnie Avery and Eddie Royal--also second rounders--are having spectacular seasons this year.

Congratulations on your 20-20 hindsight. If only we could all watch a player for half a season before deciding whether to draft him.

Also, what part of "injured" do you not understand? OK, maybe Thomas and Kelly didn't show up in the best shape they could be in, but the fact is, both did get hurt -- injuries that can't be connected to their conditioning no matter how much JLC and his amen chorus of Vinny-bashers wish they could.

I don't know whether Thomas and Kelly (and you can throw in Davis and Rinehart) will ever be stars, but I know all were considered good value for where they were picked and in some cases might be in the starting lineup now if certain current starters were injured. Mostly I know that it's beyond idiotic to evaluate a draft after half a season, particularly when the player(s) in question were set back by injuries.

Check back with me in two or three years.

Posted by: editor7 | November 8, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

So what is the over and under on the amount of plays Hall is in on against Dallas with Leigh gone. Is Springs going to start at safety or cover T.O.

Posted by: ynotcaruso | November 8, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Just realized the BEST THING about the deAngelo Hall signing. If it wasn't for that, this forum might have gotten civil during the bye week.

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:55 PM |

Nah, best will be seeing him in maroon and black against Dallas. But, yeah, this is a side benefit.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Oh and one more thing TheCork. I was on point with JC and Rogers. I was also on point about CP when last year JLC was talking about him being done. (got back and look at the post) So, maybe you should get your facts right first.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

frediefritz - Actually, the GM makes roster decisions. The coaches no doubt have major influence, but don't confuse that with who bears the responsibility.

Anyway, I don't assume I know more than the coaches and GM. But that won't stop me from voicing my opinion when I disagree with a course of action.

Torrence consistently played and was consistently trusted with more responsibility on the field than Tryon. That tells me the coaches felt he was a better player than Tryon. And let's not act like a 26-year old with 2 years playing experience has "no upside", as some ignorant folks here try to put it. Unless you feel JC is about as good as he's going to get right now...

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Well that would be one more time than you've written anything that makes sense here. BUT....it was a reverse loseable type situation where what someone else wrote accidently got posted as my opinion, which I assure you, it is not.

Have you bought a thesaurus yet?

Posted by: TheCork | November 8, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Now it's starting to make some sense. :)

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

frediefritz - Actually, the GM makes roster decisions. The coaches no doubt have major influence, but don't confuse that with who bears the responsibility.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 3:04 PM

Different clubs handle it differently. Zorn said, though, after the final cutdowns that the coaches made all the decisions and Vinny went along with them. Maybe Zorn was lying -- which doesn't seem to be his way -- or maybe things have changed since final cutdowns, but I'm believing that the coaches are heavily involved in all personnel decisions up to now.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

I don't know whether Thomas and Kelly (and you can throw in Davis and Rinehart) will ever be stars, but I know all were considered good value for where they were picked and in some cases might be in the starting lineup now if certain current starters were injured. Mostly I know that it's beyond idiotic to evaluate a draft after half a season, particularly when the player(s) in question were set back by injuries.

Check back with me in two or three years.

Posted by: editor7 | November 8, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

The problem with Thomas/Kelly is 2-fold:

1) It looks like they are living up to the criticisms/fears that folks had about them coming out fo the draft. Kelly was knocked as being "brittle" and now it looks like his place is on IR. The concern about thomas was that he only played 1 season at Michigan State, and so has had very little exposure to high-caliber football. He was clearly athletic but there was not a large body of evidence to show that he could produce consistently. Now it's looking like Thomas is a bit of a moron. He's been slow to learn the playbook and when he gets on the field he looks lost half the time or is pushing off of someone.

2) The FO was wrong to expect either of these guys to contribute this season. They clearly expected this by keeping only 3 vets ahead of them. I agree that it takes 2-3 years to see what we have, but the FO/coaches rolled the dice on these guys for THIS season, and it has NOT panned out well so far.

Posted by: p1funk | November 8, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

People remember one play that Torrence was beat on, and it was a great play by the WR to make an extremely difficult adjustment vs. good coverage. That's it. Now people want to say he was "perpetually and inevitably beaten on big plays".

I guess when you make up your own reality...

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse
You're right that one play does stand out in everyone's mind.

I think what we are saying is that Leigh was an acceptable nickel back, but he didn't make any outstanding plays, and I don't think he was going to get much better. Undersized (179 lb), I don't think he was going to be anything more than a nickel back.

Hall is younger(he turns 25 in the next couple of weeks), he's already been to the pro-bowl twice, he has good hands, has something like 20 career INT's. Torrence has 0 over 4 1/2 years.

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Hall is younger(he turns 25 in the next couple of weeks), he's already been to the pro-bowl twice, he has good hands, has something like 20 career INT's. Torrence has 0 over 4 1/2 years.

Posted by: frediefritz

I think you're confusing the argument. Hall is no doubt an upgrade over Torrence. Nobody is really arguing that (at least, I think nobody is). It's that I believe Torrence is an upgrade over Tryon. Tryon should have been cut, not Torrence.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

frediefritz - Actually, the GM makes roster decisions. The coaches no doubt have major influence, but don't confuse that with who bears the responsibility....

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Spizzle, I understand that GM sends in the paperwork. But I have no doubt that Blache and Smith are the two coaches making this decision.

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

It's that I believe Torrence is an upgrade over Tryon. Tryon should have been cut, not Torrence.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 3:18 PM |

Spiz--Why do you think the coaches kept Tryon rather than Torrence? Do you think they're all fools, or maybe that they've seen something that you heaven't? Do you think that Vinny forced them to keep Tryon? Do you think that they're just not able to judge talent as well as you are?

It just seems so strange to me to second-guess the coaches on something like this where you don't have any information except one pre-season game.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

I think you're confusing the argument. Hall is no doubt an upgrade over Torrence. Nobody is really arguing that (at least, I think nobody is). It's that I believe Torrence is an upgrade over Tryon. Tryon should have been cut, not Torrence.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 3:18 PM

Your opinion is based on very little film. The coaches have much more film to work with as well as watching them practice and film from the practices. For me, it's a no brainer to take the opinion of the coaches on this over anyone on this blog who thinks they know more.

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 8, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

The problem with Thomas/Kelly is 2-fold:

1) It looks like they are living up to the criticisms/fears that folks had about them coming out fo the draft. Kelly was knocked as being "brittle" and now it looks like his place is on IR.

Posted by: p1funk | November 8, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

The same thing was said about Rocky McIntosh, and he has become a BEAST!

Knee injuries can happen to anyone. Let's see if a gem has fallen to the second round.

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Ok, that's better.

Cork, your an idiot.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Torrence? He was no shutdown corner but I thought he played well on special teams and we could definately do worse with a #4 corner.

Posted by: Original_etrod | November 8, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I think you're confusing the argument. Hall is no doubt an upgrade over Torrence. Nobody is really arguing that (at least, I think nobody is). It's that I believe Torrence is an upgrade over Tryon. Tryon should have been cut, not Torrence.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse
And my answer to that is that we have to trust the coaches. I know you think GM made the choice. I disagree. From everything I have seen, coaches have consistently made the roster change decisions. TE brought up the quote from JZ that said they were making those decisions:

Zorn said, though, after the final cutdowns that the coaches made all the decisions and Vinny went along with them. Maybe Zorn was lying -- which doesn't seem to be his way -- or maybe things have changed since final cutdowns, but I'm believing that the coaches are heavily involved in all personnel decisions up to now.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Ok, that's better.

Cork, your an idiot.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Well, now we're back on track. LOL

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

>>1) It looks like they are living up to the criticisms/fears that folks had about them coming out for the draft.

Every player has question marks. In the case of Thomas and Kelly, they were almost universally regarded as first-round talents who slipped to the second round because of the concerns you mention. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have been picked at all, though. Even if they never develop into great players, it was still a reasonable gamble in that position.

>>2) The FO was wrong to expect either of these guys to contribute this season.

I'm not sure who your front office source is, but coming into the season everyone from the top to the bottom of the organization knew that Moss and Randle El were the starters and Thrash would be a key reserve. It was HOPED that either Thomas or Kelly could contribute early -- and until his injuries it was looking like Kelly might. Thomas, although drafted higher, was always seen as a better long-term prospect but not nearly as polished in the short term.

In any case, both were INJURED. Which affected not only their conditioning but also the number of reps they get in practice. If they'd been healthy all along and still struggling, that would be one thing. But injuries happen and you just have to deal with it.

And in the Redskins' case, they appear to be dealing with it just fine. Not only are they enjoying a banner year now, but next year they'll have an influx of young talent that will be the equivalent of two drafts, if you want to look at it that way.

>>it has NOT panned out well so far.

Ding-ding-ding. We have a winner. It hasn't panned out SO FAR. But so far is only half a season.

Posted by: editor7 | November 8, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Leave it to JLC to put a negative light and spin on a move that really improved the defense.....My God...the Pats, Gianst and Steelers wanted him too!....

JLC I don't know what your problem is...But you need a new job...If you think by upsetting the fan base who read the post helps your blog by the hits...fine...But I think your a punk.

Posted by: leevi98 | November 8, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

So you found one player who was a close friend and is upset by the release...I find it hard to believe the whole team is upset as a whole.....It's pretty obvisous over the last few years you seek out people who say what you want to write about.....SO how many players did you ask about the move before you got your negative you were looking for???????????????

Posted by: leevi98 | November 8, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Remember that time Torrence made that game changing play or the time he gave the inspirational halftime speech to rally the skins to 2nd half comeback and snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat? Me neither. Yeah, he's probably better than Tryon from what we've seen and Alexander could of been sent packing. However, to say that he much potential and was a pillar in the locker room is probably a stretch. Im sure he is great guy and had lots of friends on the team but he was the weakest link WHENEVER he was on the field, barring a few special teams plays...Hall is a huge upgrade. Besides how much locker room controversy do you think this guy can stir up with the season about 1/2 over and coming into a veteran defense that was already playing great without him? Nice move F.O.....bravo, bravo......jasno you suck as usual............HAIL

Posted by: lacanforasuxd | November 8, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Beep beep, emm effers.

(Just trying to remain medium/uncivil.)
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | November 8, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Consider this: Torrence was ok, not terrific, but ok, at what he did. Play nickel, and serve as cover guy on Punt coverage. Did he ever truly kick butt in these roles? I think any fair analysis says , no, he did not. Can Tryon do as good, or nearly as good as Torrence in these roles?? My answer is yes... he could. Torrence needed to down balls inside the 10 when given the chance. He didn't. Perhaps Tryon can if he is asked to do so...my guess is that Hall will be asked to assume this role.

Now to my real point: I think Torrence was let go because it was a near push football wise but makes much more sense roster/financially. My assumption is that Tryon will be under contract longer than Torrence would have been. So, you keep a guy that will not need to be negotiated with, and let a guy go who you would have to resign or address as a free agent. Chances are, you would lose him anyway to a team who was looking for corner help and wanted to give Torence a chance to start. He was never gonna get that chance here with Rogers and Hall in front of him irrespective of what happens with Springs and Smoot. Redskins kept a guy who is younger, faster, with more upside, and signed for a longer period for less money than the guy they released. In a business, that is good business. Redskins kept a younger faster guy over an older slower guy. The Redskins have been attempting to get there roster younger and faster since Zorn signed on. It has been a noticeable shift in philosophy since Saint Joe retired again. I htink the redskisn are looking to build for a 2-4 yrar run at the SB and have been pleasantly surprised with how well things have moved along this eyar and that they have a chance to make a run. But, the strategy remains: Get younger and faster.

And in a humanitarian spin: Redskins have given Torrence an opportunity to sign on with a team that may value him much, much more than the Redskins ever will. He has a chance to step in on a club that needs DB help and contribute every down, and to be paid as such.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | November 8, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Leave it to JLC to put a negative light and spin on a move that really improved the defense.....My God...the Pats, Gianst and Steelers wanted him too!....

You are right on point leevi98. And it is not like JLC was in Torrence corner before this. That is what piss me off about JLC. He use a player to point out negative when it fits his agenda. Then when the Skins cut the player he jumps to the other side because it fits his negative point. He did the same with Frost. To me that sht is just weak.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | November 8, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

This was STUPID! Kelly should have been moved to IR to make room for Hall. That way you don't lose anyone that's helping the team. Kelly hasn't done squat all season because of his knee, and he won't the rest of the season. Torrence is a good player and getting better. WTF! Just when you think that the skins are wising up, they go and do something like this. Stupid stupid stupid!

Posted by: TRACIETHEDOLPHIN | November 8, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

dumb dumb move....Hall will be a bust,
Torrence will be with another team....nice move little Danny, nice move

Posted by: griffmills | November 8, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

HaHaHaHa, this is ridiculous, the difference between Tryon and Torrence is miniscule marginal and Tryon has more potential..but the league is filled with guys like that: Hall, however is 25 yr. old 2 time Baller, underachieving in the La Baya Tarpits of Oakland. Kelly to IR as soon as they settle on replacement WR (probably in the works this moment)..Lester Hayes was a dope player, but he was REALLY on dope (as were the rest of the Raiders) in that Super Bowl they raped, pillaged and plundered the Skins (record scoring offense that year, mind you, toppled by Davis's speed and steroids zappin' psychos)..

Posted by: frak | November 8, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Consider this: Torrence was ok, not terrific, but ok, at what he did. Play nickel, and serve as cover guy on Punt coverage. Did he ever truly kick butt in these roles? I think any fair analysis says , no, he did not. Can Tryon do as good, or nearly as good as Torrence in these roles?? My answer is yes... he could. Torrence needed to down balls inside the 10 when given the chance. He didn't. Perhaps Tryon can if he is asked to do so...my guess is that Hall will be asked to assume this role.

Now to my real point: I think Torrence was let go because it was a near push football wise but makes much more sense roster/financially. My assumption is that Tryon will be under contract longer than Torrence would have been. So, you keep a guy that will not need to be negotiated with, and let a guy go who you would have to resign or address as a free agent. Chances are, you would lose him anyway to a team who was looking for corner help and wanted to give Torence a chance to start. He was never gonna get that chance here with Rogers and Hall in front of him irrespective of what happens with Springs and Smoot. Redskins kept a guy who is younger, faster, with more upside, and signed for a longer period for less money than the guy they released. In a business, that is good business. Redskins kept a younger faster guy over an older slower guy. The Redskins have been attempting to get there roster younger and faster since Zorn signed on. It has been a noticeable shift in philosophy since Saint Joe retired again. I htink the redskisn are looking to build for a 2-4 yrar run at the SB and have been pleasantly surprised with how well things have moved along this eyar and that they have a chance to make a run. But, the strategy remains: Get younger and faster.
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My thoughts exactly. I don't know why people are taking up for Torrence's bad play on the field. I understand he was good for the locker room, but the guy frequently lost the ball in the air (on both punts and passes) and is nothing more than a below average NFL corner. He DID NOT do his job covering punts and downing balls, he just plain wasn't very good this year.

Bring on Deangelo Hall, if he plays great and wants to stay, resign him. If he is a problem in the locker room or doesn't play well, get rid of him, it's only a one year contract.

Posted by: hender_22 | November 8, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

My fellow Redskin brethren and sistren (I know its not a word) excuse my while I get my inner Mora out...ahem.

SHOCKED? SHOCKED? You're constantly out of position and you're SHOCKED? You're constantly burned when you manage to get in and play. SHOCKED? You're technique leaves more to be desired. SHOCKED? You shouldn't be, with you gone, now we can make the PLAYOFFS!

Thank You. I'm Clark202 and I approve this message.

Posted by: clark202 | November 8, 2008 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Is it just me! but didn't #29 get burned several times to make us lose that game with a field goal!

Posted by: liseworld | November 8, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

very nice read skinssfaninkenoeh....Hawaii!

I agree with the sentement and i hope Torrence does pick up with someone quickly. He worked hard, was good team mate, and did evry thing he was asked. He is not gifted physically and lacked the skill to be a starter. When you are that guy your hard work only goes so far, and when a move has to be made you are always a candidate. That being said, I think our DB situation is still too precarious injury wise to let one go, Torrence or Tryon. I do believe that it is time for the wait and see every week if Malcolm can play game should be over. To the guy that said if they cut him they would sign another receiver, why? Because Zorn said so? He said that when there was no other mitigating circimstances. You act as though if they didn't they would be left short at WR. Would they be any shorter than the other weeks when Kelly was inactive or hurt or just didn't get on the field? The answer obviously is no. I am sure Coach Zorn did what he thought best for the team and I respect him for that, but I am also sure he didn't make the decision based on something he said at another time. You could have placed Kelly on the IR, worked Hall and Tryon for that matter into the special teams and backfield also for Hall, and then if you got an injury at WR and you are ok on defense, you could cut Tryon or Torrence. Personally I would have cut Eramus James but that is just me. Or maybe not just me, but certainly not Coach Zorn.

As for talent evaluator. Mcmullen was cut because he got hurt. he was playing ok as their 4th WR, and you certainly aren't trying to make an argument that because for one half of one season someone we cut hasn't done well elsewhere that the front office has done anything resembling a good job in this respect? Actually you cant even make the argument this year. Brandon LLoyd is having a very nice year in Chicago. But in years pastthere is a long list of players that did the same. I am not doubting you as you always make good points, but I am just saying, that is a bad argument to try to defend.

Posted by: dbrine1261 | November 8, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse

JLC, Are you kidding me? Torrence was horrific. Every time some thing bad would happen to the Skins this year, number 29 was on the scene. He was Ade Jhmo was his day. Very weak player. Could not cover anyone.

Posted by: astrober1 | November 8, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

For the recoed I hope that all the drafted players work out and i am not writing any of them off after 9 games, BUT as one person said, some of them are rounding into the exact players the scouting reports said the were. Thomas is undisciplined and unprepared, Kelly was injury prone and Davis doesn't keep his head in the game and takes plays off as well as not showing up to work on time the first day (ok that was cheap shot. I was late the other day too). As for the person that sais tha they said the same thing about Mcintosh...... News flash, they were right about him too. He does play well as he did in college, but he is also brittle with degenerative knees. You can be both as i suspect Kelly will be. He will have some fine games as a Redskin if he ever gets on the field, but history says he will never be healthy all year and he probably doesn't see the field this year at all. We should cut our losses this year and pretend he is the second round pick we gave up for Jason Taylor next year.

Posted by: dbrine1261 | November 8, 2008 7:43 PM | Report abuse

y do all these dallas suckers get on here talking smack dallas aint nothing we will kill them next week watch. a bunch of p####ies, thats what their fans r!!!!!!!!

Posted by: kd6300 | November 8, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

i thought they would keep leigh torrence just in case deangelo hall didn't work out at the end of the season

Posted by: bobbydigyte1 | November 10, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

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