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Haynesworth and the Fatigue Factor

Driving home from Redskins Park on Monday afternoon, I listened to a bit of the Lavar Arrington Show on WJFK-FM, and the former Redskins linebacker tossed out an interesting theory. He began by, I suppose, summarizing some of the Redskins' preseason talking points:

"'We're taking care of guys, we're taking preventative measures, dah-dah-dah. We cut this practice out, we cut this short, we didn't do that. We dah-dah-dah, this-and-that. Well, the guys looked good, well, we took this out, well, it was raining...'" Arrington said, clearly not convinced the Redskins' training camp was akin to a military boot camp.

"Listen, they weren't in shape," he said. "I'm sorry, they just weren't in shape ... and when you have situations like that -- to me, those are things that can change as time goes on -- but some of those guys weren't in the condition they needed to be to win that game."

So Arrington thinks the Redskins lost at New York because they weren't physically prepared for four quarters of football. Interesting theory, and anyone who saw Albert Haynesworth take to the sidelines in the early moments of Sunday's game -- or take a knee on the sidelines in some of the later moments -- was no doubt wondering the same thing. In fact, I was, too. So I asked defensive coordinator Greg Blache after the game whether his players seemed to be tired.

"No, no," Blache said. "I don't think we were tired at all. I thought our conditioning was good. I thought the guys rotated -- the coaches rotated guys in and out good."

It's not a crazy suggestion, though. Remember, in the first half, the Washington defense was on the field more than twice as long as its offense.

"You just got to be persistent," defensive end Andre Carter told me. "There's times you get a little winded. But we've been very well-conditioned."

Haynesworth didn't technically say he was tired (and to be fair, I don't think he was technically directly asked the question), but he did explain why he seemed to spend so much time on the sidelines while his fellow starters were still trying to make plays.

"What they want me to do is go as hard as I can, and if I get tired, come out, catch my breath and then go back out," said Haynesworth.

This might be a good time to remind you of something said by St. Louis Rams center Jason Brown last month. Brown played the last four seasons with Baltimore and faced Haynesworth and the Tennessee Titans four times.

"I'm so glad we're playing Washington early in the year because it's going to be hot out there, we're going to be running hurry-up offense and [Haynesworth's] going to get fatigued," Brown told a St. Louis radio station. "And I'm not sure if you have watched film before, but when he gets fatigued, he taps out. He just falls down to the ground, and you're like, 'Oh my gosh, is he hurt? Is something wrong with him?' No, he's just giving the guy on the sidelines enough time to mosey on out there so he can get up, go to the sidelines, catch a breather, get something to drink and then he comes right back out.

"And then people are like, 'I thought he was hurt.' No, he got tired. But you know what, that's exactly what we're going to have to do when we play Washington. We're going to have to play hurry-up offense and make them tired."

For the record, when we asked Haynesworth about Brown's comments in the early days of training camp, he responded, "Good, let him think that."

It will be interesting to see after Sunday's Rams-Redskins meeting if Brown still feels that way. And it could be even more interesting if Redskins fans do, too.

By Rick Maese  |  September 15, 2009; 6:03 AM ET
 
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Comments

The sky is falling mayor! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Posted by: jonthefisherman | September 15, 2009 6:27 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworth is definitely an upgrade at that position.

Dude is a monster. Give it time. I'm sure if he ends the season with 50 tackles and 10 sacks people will still question the 100 mil.

Posted by: Dorf | September 15, 2009 6:33 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't call Lavar a good source of info on the Skins, he holds a grudge against the team because he hired an agent that can't read.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 6:47 AM | Report abuse

Is this news? AH is out of shape? Really? I thought that when we signed him everyone knew that he took plays off, only played about 50% of snaps, and rotated out constantly.

Not that I'm OK with that -- for that money he should play every single snap and specail teams (ala Shaun Rogers). How often do you see Haloti Ngata come out of games? If his fat ass can be out there, $100 Milli Al can be too.

I never was sold on this deal, and things like this don't help.

Posted by: tphasbdp | September 15, 2009 6:53 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21:

I'll roll with that. LOL. Dude must have been blind and the contract wasn't in braille.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 15, 2009 7:05 AM | Report abuse

it isn't Haynesworth who lost the game. he doesn't call plays.
this one is squarely on zorn

Posted by: jonthefisherman | September 15, 2009 7:14 AM | Report abuse

AH's fatigue problems are something I'm sure all will be watching closely as the season progresses'. Time will tell if there's any validity to Jason Brown's theory.

Posted by: MHEDRLT | September 15, 2009 7:14 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworth was not the problem yesterday. The defense gave our inept quarterback and youthless offensive line every opportunity to win yesterday.

Posted by: jboogie1 | September 15, 2009 7:17 AM | Report abuse

Its not completely Zorn's fault they lost yesterday.

It is not Zorn's fault that the skins arent equipped to do what he would like to do on offense.

It IS his fault that he can't figure out how to use what he has.

Posted by: jboogie1 | September 15, 2009 7:19 AM | Report abuse

This Team hasn't been in top notch shape since they hired Charley Casserly as the GM instead of Bobby Mitcbell.

They are still penciling in guys that have not earned the right to be starters.

Cut Cartwright & Betts. Get D-backs that want to play football instead of wanting good press. Let the guys play like Arrington did.

I had a guy that played D-back whom was arrogant and would not play the scheme. He was fast as hell and he felt he could gamble at will. He was right and he never cost me a game and my defense was always one of the best because of him.

Too much these days coaches want to scheme/control everything on the field. There is too much control crap goins' ons' wit' dees' Redskins.

And as Team they are out of shape. They need to go back to six preseason games.

Why do you think that Parcell's teams are always good. It is not just talent, it because they are in shape. NYG, NE, NO, JJ, BR, PS, and a few other Teams will always be good because they understand what practice is.

We have practice and keys guys that start on Sunday are on the sidelines looking. They should be backups until they prove on Sunday that they should be starting.

Let the guys who practice start, for they are better prepared and in better shape.

Arrington is 100% correct.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 15, 2009 7:20 AM | Report abuse

I will guarantee that AH played in as many plays as most of the best DT's in the league. Is there a place to find the actual number of defensive plays and how many each player played?

John Riggins used to run two downs and then suck up an entire bottle of oxygen, I never heard anyone question his fatigue factor.

This is more BS during the week because there is nothing else to write about.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 7:22 AM | Report abuse

I will say that training camp should be harder, I think Zorn and Gibbs 2.0 both have had soft training camps.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 7:25 AM | Report abuse

Campbell is Trent Edwards lite...time to warm up Collins. Cheers

Posted by: MPNangle | September 15, 2009 7:25 AM | Report abuse

"I think our challenge was to become more disciplined on the field," Zorn said after the game. "That's going to be our challenge from Week 1 to Week 2."

Wow! Zorn play calling sucks and this is what he think the challenge from week 1 to week 2 will be.

Posted by: jm220 | September 15, 2009 7:26 AM | Report abuse

I'm sad for Lavar. He's gone from a great talent that never realized his true potential to a paid hater. If Lavar had lived up to his own hype, he'd still be out there kicking it on Sundays. Now he's at the Sideline ladling au jus sauce and restocking toilet paper. He was never that smart a player on the field, and he doesn't have much to offer off of it, except for his own bitter negativity.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 7:27 AM | Report abuse

The defense is good. Haynesworth is good. We just need to blitz more on third down so teams stop consistently converting third and longs...And the offensive play calling needs to get fresher. Throw on first down!!

Posted by: Salinas1 | September 15, 2009 7:39 AM | Report abuse

You know, I think Lavar has said some whacky things in the past, but I don't think this is one of them. I saw Haynesworth kneeling on one knee on the field, slow to get up in his stance. He was winded. I didn't see it so much with the other players as I did Haynesworth, but there was a certain lack of intensity there that could have been because they were tired, and LaVar is right on another thing: the veterans played very little in the preseason and there were a lot of excuses about minor injuries.

This coach definitely shows favoritism to his veterans. He lets them off easy and this is is one of a few things I don't like about Zorn's approach. To me, every player is vying for a job when they come into camp and there should be no such thing as a day off from the competition because you were with the team last year. Zorn spends a lot of time saying the coaches are fair and then he says the veterans don't have to practice today. I don't like it. It destroys teamwork and leads the veterans to think there is a sense of entitlement. Yep, I am standing behind LaVar on this one. He's got a point.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 7:44 AM | Report abuse

The sky is falling mayor! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Posted by: jonthefisherman | September 15, 2009 6:27 AM

That's my line, dude. I even have a tiny fiddle to go along with it.

Posted by: SonofNero | September 15, 2009 7:52 AM | Report abuse

I would HATE to be Leodis McKelvin this morning. Man, what a collosal SJK-up. One play away from defeating Hoodie and the Evil Empire...

Posted by: SonofNero | September 15, 2009 7:55 AM | Report abuse

Anyone catch Vince Wilfork last night?? Seems to me that he spent some time on the sidelines catching his breath. I wonder if Belichick ran a nancy camp. Seriously, Lavar, B-Mitch, those two clowns don't have an axe to grind against this team at ALL.....they're completely unbiased...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 7:59 AM | Report abuse

I'm sad for Lavar. He's gone from a great talent that never realized his true potential to a paid hater. If Lavar had lived up to his own hype, he'd still be out there kicking it on Sundays. Now he's at the Sideline ladling au jus sauce and restocking toilet paper. He was never that smart a player on the field, and he doesn't have much to offer off of it, except for his own bitter negativity.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 7:27 AM |

Don't hate on Arrington because of what he said, just deal with what he said.

For, if you believe that this Team as a whole is in shape, like they should be, and like some of the better Teams in this League at this point, then Kenbeatrizz, I don' know what you are looking at.

Physical preparation is a problem with this Team. Has been for a while. It has never been widely reported, but hopefully someone at Redskin Part is listening and starts to make some changes.

Missing tackles comes from no heart, being scared, operator head space, and yes being out of shape.

Iffin' ya' don' kno' ya' beddar' ask somebody'.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 15, 2009 8:11 AM | Report abuse

I'd say the problem with Lavar's show is that I can reach over and turn the channel anytime, and talking football is supposed to be a fun diversion for me while on the road. At some point yesterday, driving between Charlottesville and DC, I thought to myself "ok, ok, Lavar. I got it. You don't like the skins. They're evil. Whatever. Goodbye."

Posted by: daggar | September 15, 2009 8:11 AM | Report abuse

I guess we should have known that once he signed his contract there would be some really unrelealistic expectations, on what he'd be expected to do. Personally, I'd rather he took a breather throughout the game, get Monty/Lo Alex/Golston in there, is it better that you wear Albert out and the guys behind him never see the field, or is it better that there is a rotation, and in the 4th quarter he's got something left in the tank......seems simple to me....also with all the other things going on...seems like this subject is approaching Apierce/LTorrance territory....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 8:12 AM | Report abuse

"Physical preparation is a problem with this Team. Has been for a while"

I'll put this back on you to back that up with something of substance, something that definitively backs up your claim...otherwise sounds like poppycock.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

If I was a NE or SD fan, I'd be pretty concerned about my team. The Pats deserved to lose that game despite their stats advantage -- that team looks like it has some problems on defense. The Chargers weren't much better.

Just once this season, I'd like to see Jamarcus Russell drop back from his own 20 and fling a bullet into the opponent's end zone. I bet he could do it. I bet the Raider receivers have to wear Kevlar chest plates...

Posted by: Samson151 | September 15, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

If the tv cameras show Haynesworth on the sideline 5 times during the game, it just reinforces what all the spazes on this blog are going to believe anyway: that Albert never plays. Is he supposed to play 100% of the snaps when he is double-teamed EVERY play and still goes 100% of the time? Would you rather him take a few plays off so he's technically not missing plays, instead of putting in a solid fresh backup?

Calm down you pyschos. There's not one DT in the league that plays every play at full strength (or even close to 100% of them), nor are there any other D-linemen that must be double-teamed, and sometimes triple-teamed every play.

How do you think we stuffed the Giants on two goal line situations? Hint: it rhymes with Maynesworth.

Posted by: Section104 | September 15, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

"Seriously, Lavar, B-Mitch, those two clowns don't have an axe to grind against this team at ALL.....they're completely unbiased...Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

LOL have you noticed there's a lot of cash in hating? Just ask Glenn Beck.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 15, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Seems to me if he's taking on a double team most the time it might cause him to tire quicker than someone going on one. Besides if we're rotating linemen to keep them fresh who cares what he's doing on the sideline. Bottom line is we played a good NY Giants team and we have a lot of opportunities for improvement. Lets move on to the Rams....

Posted by: myrtle_beach_fan | September 15, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

sam, seriously, I heard that Jauron made McKelvin find his own way home, made him take a Peter Pan Bus back to Buffalo(kidding)....how do you make that mistake....he's one of the best kick returners in football, and he ran it out because he thought if he took a knee it would have been a safety.....WOW...

I thought that the bills did a good job making tom uncomfortable, which is why he struggled in the first half somewhat...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to turn over the play calling to his offensive coordinator, Sherman Smith PERIOD. He needs to take in the BIG picture of game adjustments and what is going on through the WHOLE game. Coach the QBS during the week, oversee the team meetings and stop micro managing the offense.

Posted by: boysheadcoach | September 15, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Winded or no, Skins were expecting the 4 man rush to have better results than it did.

I've taken issue with their physical training before, the nagging hammies, etc.

There are obvious coarching problems on this team and it would follow conditioning goes along with that.

I'd rather have the players kvetch about how hard camp was & be better players for it than have them be happy about camp and suck wind on the sideline.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 15, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Fred Jackson single handedly won my Fantasy Opener last night after being down 101-93. So I am happy about that.

Also I am one hundred percent in favor of almost every old AFL team wearing their old school uniforms for ever, especially the Pats Bills and Chargers.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to turn over the play calling to his offensive coordinator, Sherman Smith PERIOD. He needs to take in the BIG picture of game adjustments and what is going on through the WHOLE game. Coach the QBS during the week, oversee the team meetings and stop micro managing the offense.

Posted by: boysheadcoach | September 15, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Zorn said Campbell made two mistakes in the game but he made "good decisions" for the rest of the game. I am so sick of hearing about Campbell's decision making. I want to hear that he made PLAYS, not that he made decisions. If a QB makes good decisions and still loses the game, the problem doesn't fall on the quarterback, because when you think about it, good decisions should lead to a victory, right? Zorn is a moron for saying this. Maybe both he and his quarterback should innovate their way into some "bad decisions" that win the game...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

He needs to take in the BIG picture of game adjustments and what is going on through the WHOLE game.

It's not clear that it's a particular strength of his.

Posted by: daggar | September 15, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

I agree for the most part, but do we know if Stump knows how to play call? Did he do that for Tenn?

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

I'll put this back on you to back that up with something of substance, something that definitively backs up your claim...otherwise sounds like poppycock.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 8:15 AM


Nobody under the age of 80 should ever use the word "poppycock". That is awful.

Anyway, I understand the perception that Zorn runs a less than difficult camp; he did cancel a number of practices this year and allowed the veteran players to stay at home. Whether or not that perception is reality, you have to admit the perception definitely costs him the benefit of the doubt.

Whether it's been an issue for years like the other dude said, that I don't know. Gibbs historically ran a tough camp, but seemed to let up a bit towards the end and Spurrier basically did NOTHING right when he was here. Norv was...Norv and Marty was a notorious task master. So the take that for what it's worth...just my two cents.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 15, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

I tend to agree with Lavar on this one. I can remember several times in the past couple of years when I was raving for the conditioning coach to be fired, but it was mainly about an excess of pulls and strains and tweaks that were obviously due to poor conditioning.

Minicamp and preseason is a time when you can push your players to the limit of exhaustion without worrying about how ready they will be on Sunday, because the games don't matter. This is a key time for players to get more exercise and conditioning than they can afford to get for the rest of the year. The teams that take advantage of this and ramp down into the season from a very rigorous camp do well. Teams like the skins who take it easy and ramp up to the level they intend to be at for the season, have conditioning problems.

I think the defense was a little gassed and you could see it in the poor tackling more than anything. Some of the blame for that can be placed on the offense for not staying on the field long enough.

Posted by: rexforab | September 15, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Geesh, there are a lot of people on this blog who jump to conclusions. Saying Haynesworth was winded is not the same thing as saying he was ineffective. I think he was effective. I also think he was winded. I think his conditioning stinks. How is it is okay for Haynesworth to carry around 350 pounds of blubber but not Mike Williams?

Let me say it hear again so everybody understands: this coach is soft. He lets his veterans get away with too much. Instead of taking the pressure off those guys he should be putting the pressure on. They are the role models for the younger players. They are the leaders for the team. If Marko Mitchell, DT and Kelly are staying after practice to work with Campbell, then where are Moss and ARE? If Moss spent a little more time working with Campbell then maybe they would have been on the same page for that long pass, or Moss might have thought to run back to his quarterback for that ball that was intercepted. Soft coach = soft players.

Mike Shanahan clock = fifteen games and counting...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

brown, just celebrated 87 years the other day, so I guess I'm ok...haha...

I'm going to need something more than the "perceived notion" that the team is out of shape to convince me....not sure how sleeping at home, gives you a beer gut makes you eat a couple bags of pringles every night....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Rotating players in and out of a game is a good thing. It's called strategy. Being out of shape as a Team is another thing. Thats a bad thing.

AH should be rotated in and out of the game. Teams that are in the best of shape use rotations.

DON'T GET THE TWO CONFUSED PEOPLE. THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS ARE NOT IN THE TEAM SHAPE THEY SHOULD BE IN AT THIS POINT.

Again, Arrington is 100% correct and those of you that refuse to see it are just fooling yourselves.

Portis is in shape, but not football shape. Albert is in more football shape than others because of what he does and his position. Stop raggin AH. It is these others that been around for awhile that ain't where they ought to be.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 15, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

"If Marko Mitchell, DT and Kelly are staying after practice to work with Campbell, then where are Moss and ARE"

wow....WAY to early for this logic....or lack thereof....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

A couple of thoughts from the MNF games:

Richard Seymour (a DE, not a DT) had no full practices and delivered two sacks and consistently came up big. Was not shown breathing heavily on the sideline in the Raider's losing effort.

Much like Jason Campbell, Raiders QB Russell had his recievers drop at least seven passes - several which were clear first downs as well as a called-back touchdown that hit them in the hands. I am sold on Russell.

The no-huddle clearly gave Buffalo advantages at times throughout the game. They have got a good young QB up there. But Brady is back. Now if we recall the Pats first Super Bowl win, Brady was spoon fed a limited offense (he was a rookie that year) and did not get the full offense until his second year in the league. Perhaps that is part of the Redskins problem. You hire a coach or offensive coordinator and he wants to install all 500 pages of his playbook instead of getting the basic plays set. Russell in Oakland seems to have benefited from the "focus on basics' approach. Note also that rookies were started on Buffalo's offensive line and did well as they were running a limited offense as well.

Gibss approach was always to make it easy on the QB to be successful (as was Parcells). Even Bill Walsh did not install his entire ofense until Montan's third year (when they won the Super Bowl).

One final point - anyone notice Brady's scowls when Welker (who really has made his life easy over the last few years) dropped passes? Now that is leadership we need to see from JC. Great stare downs directly at his possession receiver. And Welker caught the next ones thrown his way.

Regards -

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | September 15, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

mpnangle

"....Campbell is Trent Edwards lite...time to warm up Collins..."


Campbell should be on an 8 game leash.

The standard?: consistent growth in the passing game.

We heard all summer that, "...gosh, Jason looked sharp today..."

Summertime fun is over.

He either gets the job done or he gets one to a new job.

Plain and simple.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

I wonder if we'll hang 28 on St. Louis like Seattle did?

Posted by: FedorEm | September 15, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

larry, just looking for something, ANYTHING, that you can give me to back this up...don't repeat it, repeating it doesn't make it true....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Marko and Malcolm need to be in the game when we're in the red zone. Plain and simple. Try passing to them instead of running 3 times and kicking a field goal. Zorn is a red zone idiot.

Posted by: FedorEm | September 15, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

In terms of camp -

If the team is undisciplined and makes stupid mistakes, I think a tougher camp is in order. That is the way the Redskins played last year.

In terms of Big Al being gassed, how spent did Riggins look after a few runs sucking down the oxygen on the sidelines? Did it matter at the time? No, b/c the skins were winning. he used to skip days of practice to lay in traction to avaoid practice. But again, he was a vet that knew his role and did it well AND the team was winning. How about Dexter - admitting to holding out (and over resting injuries) to avoid two-a-days against Joe Jacoby?

Even thought they lost, I think Oakland's fans are ecstatic with the Seymour signing. Since we have seen cap money misspent soooo many times, many of us are suspicious of the Superbowl in April wins.

If the skins win, the details don't matter. Since they lost in such an unspired fashion they will get critiqued ad nauseum. If only Campbell had stepped up in the pocket....

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | September 15, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

"Haynesworth and the Fatigue Factor"


Here's something to factor: the skins added Haynesworth with the idea he'd help shut down B Jacobs and get pressure on E Manning, among other things.

Well, in round one, he did some of one, and little of the other: and the jints won.

Ans as for the other teams in our division, they passed themselves to victory or exploited turnovers: how does a big tackle stop that?

So how much sense did it make to compromise your sal cap situation by adding a monstah d-tackle who needs a nap and a snack in the middle of the second quarter?

I wasn't for adding Prince Al, and have yet to see any reason why it was a good idea.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Its a fair critque about the team, not really AH. AH is who is, none of this was an "unknown". But the team being underconditioned from a lite camp, could be an issue.

Also re: the defense. How about we not leave them on field for a half, with like ya know...some drives?

Posted by: chrislarry | September 15, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

and the 4th ranked defense isn't enough for you scamp? They made turnovers and held the offense (not on the manningham play though). I think the defense isn't our problem.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 11:02 PM

If you're out there dorf, this is continued from last night. I would say that the entire defense isn't our problem but covering the middle of the field sure has been one of them for the last couple of years. 4th ranked blah, blah, blah... Our run defense is phenomenal that is true. Teams beat us by throwing to the slot and hitting occassional big plays. The big plays are going to happen no matter what you do but the middle of the field? Come on... I agree, they got some turnovers which is a huge step up from last year. Those stops in the red zone were great, vintage stuff, but the marching down the field to get to the redzone seemingly at will was not so heartening.

Having said that, I agree that the defense is not our biggest issue and is, in fact, the least of our concerns.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

So now we are back to if he should have been signed or not. It's done get over it, he had a good game yesterday, and if he gets some help he will help against the pass.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

"...We're going to have to play hurry-up offense and make them tired."

This could be bad, the Rams are thinking about playing offense.

Posted by: NFeKPo | September 15, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to turn over the play calling to his offensive coordinator, Sherman Smith PERIOD. He needs to take in the BIG picture of game adjustments and what is going on through the WHOLE game. Coach the QBS during the week, oversee the team meetings and stop micro managing the offense.

Posted by: boysheadcoach | September 15, 2009 8:33 AM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't get this at all.

What makes anyone think that Sherman Smith can call a better game than Zorn? He was a running backs coach at Tenn., wasn't he? What makes him more qualified to call the game?

Face it--Zorn is not going to give up the playcalling. He's an ex-quarterback who never got to call his own plays. He's never been an OC who called plays. This is what he's been wanting to do for years now.

I just hope he gets better at it. Break away from the WCO 'bible' every now and then. Every Defensive Coordinator in the league has a copy of it--memorized.

Less predictability.

Posted by: smurff1 | September 15, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Those were two highly entertaining games last night with very unsatisfying conclusions....

And you know that was EXACTLY the kind of game that Norv would have lost during his 22 year tenure with the Skins...

Posted by: chrislarry | September 15, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Could Sherm be any worse? Zorn still would have a huge part of the gameplan, but I say let Sherm call plays, geek out on the play to play stuff so Zorn can HC.

HC calling plays is lame.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 15, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

I hate being a nit picker but Zorn was a College level OC for 2-3 years 92-94, I really wish people would at least give him partial credit for that rather then pretend he never had the job.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Chris -

You nailed it. "In Norv we mistrust."

Only thing is he would have been helped in the losing effort by a numbskull act (Gus' headbutt, Westbrook's helmet).

But got to give him credit for the develepmont of P. Rivers. He is doing what the much more hyped Heath Shuler never did here.

Regards -

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | September 15, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

"I wasn't for adding Prince Al, and have yet to see any reason why it was a good idea.Posted by: MistaMoe"

Yeah. It's not like there are any more games to play or anything.

Seriously, the stats geeks insist that signing a premier FA defensive lineman usually doesn't produce a lot of immediate gain, either on the stats sheet or in the won-loss record. There are solid methodological reasons for that, most of them having to do with schemes and the fact that there are twenty-one other guys out there on the field when he's playing. Still, nobody would deny that Reggie White was a principal reason the Pack won its championship.

The thing that I would look for is how Albert gets used. Blache acknowledges he's not an ideal fit for the way the Skins played defense last season. And teams sometimes waste great players. I was thinking of Herschel Walker with the Vikings -- a great, great talent utterly wasted by a coaching staff that wanted to play a different style.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 15, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

"If Marko Mitchell, DT and Kelly are staying after practice to work with Campbell, then where are Moss and ARE"

wow....WAY to early for this logic....or lack thereof....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Must have some good smoking herbs there in Beantown, Greg, because I don't get your logic statement. I didn't see anything from Moss in that last game that would make me think he shouldn't be running routes with the kids. Heck, maybe he should be running laps. As a coach, you can respect a player and still hold them accountable. These two items are not mutually exclusive.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

After a lot of negativity I do have to add some positve, and it's the obvious...Hooray for finding Randle El's true position!!! Dude is gonna be a beast in the slot!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else hate this car scrolling down the page?

Posted by: skinball77 | September 15, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

"It's done get over it..."

Doncha love it when the head cheerleader wants to change the subject?

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

yeh - and we only wasted 2 years putting him in the WRONG position...

Those rookies did ok in Okland, no?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 15, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

You hate to fuel any controversy as high turnover and lack of consistancy has been a problem but Zorn and Blatche could be too easy going. I believe Wise brought it up about going against the stereotype of gruff screaming heads. But Cowher, you have to think would make the most of the big name free agents Snyder likes to sign.

I like Cooley and Sellers but seeing Brandon Jacobs I can't help wondering if the coaches have done them a disservice allowing them to be a little soft. Kevin Boss reminds you that Cooley isn't really a big TE. You'd hate to think they could be stronger or faster. Like in "Invincible" if it took shedding a few ounces going with smaller pads... They can reek havoc on a secondary.

The skins are deep enough on the D-line that Hansey should be fighting for more playing time. 100% and looking for more on every play he's in. I like seeing Zorn yelling and hope he gets a chance to prove himself as a head coach. But the skins have it good and there are screaming heads out there waiting to be hired.

Posted by: chavez66 | September 15, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

You know, I thought Mike Shanahan was too old to coach the Redskins as coaching should be a younger man's job but he's only one year older than Zorn. Just goes to show you the importance of sunscreen.

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Remember Cooley was not brought in to be TE but H-Back. Which is why he is smaller then a Boss, block first TE.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

will, they don't need sunscreen in Denver, they dont get much sun.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

not sure how sleeping at home, gives you a beer gut makes you eat a couple bags of pringles every night....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 8:45 AM


You've obviously never been to my house...

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 15, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

After a lot of negativity I do have to add some positve, and it's the obvious...Hooray for finding Randle El's true position!!! Dude is gonna be a beast in the slot!

Posted by: scampbell1975

Have to agree with you. ARE did a good job in the slot. ARE and London Fletcher both had solid games and should be commended. Instead of Zorn telling us how Campbell made "good decisions", maybe he should praise the two guys worth praising.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Richard Seymour (a DE, not a DT) had no full practices and delivered two sacks and consistently came up big. Was not shown breathing heavily on the sideline in the Raider's losing effort.

Posted by: HughGRection | September 15, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Key words here are "Was not shown", because Seymour is not a story that the networks are worried about. So the cameras are focused on the field, where they should be. Same should apply to AH. I would be concerned if AH was not exhausted after several plays, because then we would hear about how he was "taking off a few plays". A successful rotation happens when you have depth at a position, and you want the guy playing to go "full-out", then replace him for a few downs.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 15, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

rsh, so you're contending that Moss is the problem, just so that I'm getting this straight. He and ARE, who just so happen to lead the team in catches and yards the first game, they were the problem.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

samson

"The thing that I would look for is how Albert gets used. Blache acknowledges he's not an ideal fit for the way the Skins played defense last season."


Well, if that's the situation, then the whole Prince Al episode reeks of Jason Taylor--and instead of draft picks, $48 million.

Oooops: I forgot--the Jason Taylor move is something else the cheerleaders say we minions in the stands shouldn't discuss as, "..it's done, get over it...".

'Cept it--the wack big name talent acquisition moves-- keep happening.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

This Team hasn't been in top notch shape since they hired Charley Casserly as the GM instead of Bobby Mitcbell.

Arrington is 100% correct.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD

Two baseless statements.

We won a Super Bowl with Casserly as GM in 1991. What qualified Bobby Mitchell to be our GM over Casserly? An endorsement by Petitbon? Even more telling: how many other NFL teams have Bobby Mitchell on speed dial for his GM skills? He was a great player, but I have no idea how you can just assume he'd make a great GM, let alone lead to a better conditioned team.

What the hell does Lavar know about THIS team's conditioning? Was he there practicing? As I far as I know, Haynesworth took plays off on the sidelines when he was with Tennessee, and they supposedly have a fine coaching staff, a real GM, etc. You would take a knee now and then if you were asked to go 100% against double and triple team blocking. Plenty of teams rotate players on the line to keep the starters fresh. The Giants rotate Chris Canty and Rocky Bernard in for Cofield and Robbins all the time. If you have problem with a particular player, it's about the player. Don't make a blanket statement about the team based on Lavar's agenda.

I'm not a huge Jim Zorn fan, but I do know that when he got here, several of our veteran players -- who went through the venerable St. Joe's supposedly tough training camps -- couldn't pass JZ's conditioning test. I've seen dozens of interviews where he's preaching conditioning. With a 53 man roster and a salary cap, NFL football is no longer about beating the sh!t out of your players in full pads at every practice. You can't stockpile players on the IR anymore.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

rsh, so you're contending that Moss is the problem, just so that I'm getting this straight. He and ARE, who just so happen to lead the team in catches and yards the first game, they were the problem.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 9:38 AM |

Moss isn't leading the team in anything except fights. Cooley and ARE lead the team.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

I blew up the car, thank you.

CL - Norv was here twenty two years?

As to Lavar's comments - he's edging close to the truth - I don't have the expertise to really comment on their physical condition (I'm not really hanging around on the sidelines game day, or in the weight room during the week) but, I do see that for two straight years, this team came into New York playing as if it was the 5th pre-season game instead of what it was. The offensive scheme had not gelled, their was no apparent coherent plan to attack the Giants D, and the defense put the Ginas in a lot of third and long, but couldn't close the deal.

Mentally, they appeared unready to play, for the second straight year!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 15, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

I hate being a nit picker but Zorn was a College level OC for 2-3 years 92-94, I really wish people would at least give him partial credit for that rather then pretend he never had the job.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 9:11 AM
+++++++++++++++++++

Thanks, Alex. Didn't remember that part...

Posted by: smurff1 | September 15, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Alex, maybe he has an in home tanning bed. He just looks old to me. Besides I think Chucky will be more of a big splash after a year on MNF and we know how Danny likes a splash. Not that Zorn can't improve & look good as the year goes on. Just sayin in case he gets the hook is all...

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

"Anyone else hate this car scrolling down the page?"


That car is the "Hope the Redskins Open-up the Offense Express" looking for a place to park in this blog.

Ssdly, the people who still endorse the 1980s 'riggo drill' style of offense have used all the handicapped parking--not that they're not eligible, btw.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

moe, WOW...just mind boggling....did you really just go there....did you just go al=jt....ufb..

ken, no kidding, how often is Lavar over at practice, how many guys on the team does he talk to....I'm guessing the answers to those 2 questions are not ever, and none....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

beep...beep...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

So who has an opinion on Horton vs. Doughty? I thought they both played reasonably well. Doughty was a bit more prominent, but I think that was mainly because Blache tweaked the defense to put the SS in position to make plays in the second half.
But was that because Doughty's better, or maybe Horton's coverage skills have improved, or just because of game circumstances?

Posted by: daggar | September 15, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

"'Cept it--the wack big name talent acquisition moves-- keep happening."

How do you think an un-capped year would go down?

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | September 15, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

"It's done get over it..."

Doncha love it when the head cheerleader wants to change the subject?

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 9:21 AM |

Don't you love it how one of the main haters, dwells on sh_t thats done an over with. They signed him so crying about does who any good.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Going from on Holmgren disciple to another.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

ken, no kidding, how often is Lavar over at practice, how many guys on the team does he talk to....I'm guessing the answers to those 2 questions are not ever, and none....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

For all I know, the Skins have a restraining order keeping Lavar out of the Park, since he obsesses over his missing $6.5 mil like the kid from Better Off Dead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUU9UmT134M

I WANT MY $2!!!!

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

"...We're going to have to play hurry-up offense and make them tired."

This could be bad, the Rams are thinking about playing offense.

Posted by: NFeKPo | September 15, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse
Hurry-up only works if you can string 6-10 plays together. And if the runner/receiver goes out of bounds, the next platoon comes in immediately. Key tho is "3 and out".

Posted by: frediefritz | September 15, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

On having a soft camp: I posted here during camp a quote from edwin williams that really opened my eyes...don't have the exact words, but he basically said our camp was easier than @ MD. Pretty scary?

Posted by: stevek20147 | September 15, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Does anybody really care what LaVAR ARRINGTON thinks? And yes, I expect ALBERT HAYNESWORTH to be in a rotation. And no, I don't believe his contract dictates he be on the field for every defensive down.

It's SNYDER's money by way of your pockets that he's getting anyway. I don't count b/c I never attend games or buy that crap in the REDSKINS stores. No NFL packages, no games. Nothing for the grand-kids except books to read on other subjects or equipment for them to improve themselves athletically so SNYDER can throw money their way someday. It's here and on the local channel t.v. on game day for me and that's enough. I'll give SNYDER my time as I am retired, but not my money. So what I say doesn't count anyway.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 15, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

"Well, if that's the situation, then the whole Prince Al episode reeks of Jason Taylor--and instead of draft picks, $48 million.posted by MistaMoe"

Lots of differences. Jason was in his mid-thirties, 12th season, with a lot of questions about his motivation for playing. That's why he was available in the first place. Albert's six years younger and the only question about his desire is whether it will lessen with his huge contract (always a legit question).

Taylor they signed in a fever -- hotter than a pepper sprout -- after Daniels went down. Nobody thought Jason would replace Philip, as they're entirely different players, but it was thought he could rotate with Evans and improve the pass rush. Would that he had.

Haynesworth as a FA had been the subject of study by NFL teams for months.

But they're both gambles. I'd rather Danny gamble his cash than those draft picks.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 15, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else hate this car scrolling down the page?

Posted by: skinball77 | September 15, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse
It's driving me nuts, skinball77.

Posted by: frediefritz | September 15, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

First of all, your biggest mistake is listening to anything Arrington says. The only thing he's an expert at is how to throw a career away... by being out of shape and riding a motorcycle without a license. By I digress, the fact he has a radio show is shocking.

Second, go back and look at film, Haynesworth looked no different Sunday than he has over his career. The dude goes a hundred miles per hour on every down and gets doubled teamed, chipped, and at times chases the QB or RB in the backfield down. That's going to take a lot of energy to do for guys his size. He leaves it all out on the field, so I don't mind the breathers during the game. Trust me, we don't have another interior lineman on the team that can do what he does.

Thirdly, I didn't notice anyone out of shape or in poor condition, what I did see was poor execution. Wrong angles taken when trying to make the tackle, poor technique in zone and scheme coverage, and abysmal play calling. No intensity, no sense of urgency, or emotion. The Giants intimidated the Skins, something they along with Philly and Dallas seem to do with ease. I hate to say it, but if you punch the skins in the mouth, they'll quit. GET MAD FOR ONCE!!!!!!!!!! ANYBODY!!!!! None of this has anything to do with conditioning.

Please turn the Lavar show off Mayor, we here in Washington turned him off years ago. I guess the next topic of his show will be about the importance of studying and learning the playbook.

Posted by: clark202 | September 15, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

I hate being a nit picker but Zorn was a College level OC for 2-3 years 92-94, I really wish people would at least give him partial credit for that rather then pretend he never had the job.

Posted by: alex35332

Please tell me you're kidding, alex.

Since you hold his offensive coordinating experience in some what high regard, would you care to share where he "grew of age"?

Let me help you.

Zorn was the offensive coordinator at Utah State... who the f is Utah State? furthermore who the f was Utah State back then?

And even if that did matter, he was only offensive coordinator for two, count 'em TWO years. If he was anything as a OC you gotta believe that he would've got other opportunities. But no, other than HC for the 'skins the only coaching position he has held was quarterbacks coach.

My bad he was also an "offensive assistant".

whoop-de-doo...

Zorn sucks. Play-calling, sucks. Leadership, sucks. His whole goofy ass persona, sucks.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I'll never forget seeing ARRINGTON running along the sidelines and bouncing up and down on the just, and I mean just, repaired knee. Like a day or two before.

I thought, that idiot is going to hurt himself again before he even gets onto the field. Sure enough later in the game, along comes a comment that LaVAR had limped into the locker room. The dude did himself in. I love the intensity, but totally misplaced. No wonder the coaches were dismissive of him.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 15, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

You gotta give Haynesworth credit here people. He's usually having to push against two blockers and often he's blowing them up. That's over 600 lbs. that he's pushing backwards! I don't care who you are or how much your getting paid but your going to get tired. He's an excellent player, lay off!

Posted by: gene_lohman | September 15, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Overall team conditioning is an issue, coaches should expect that if no one plays in preseason games. Haynesworth is a beast, guys around him need to STEP UP. Rams game: Skins need to get focused and stop making the stupid mistakes like burning time outs and needless penalties. Campbell should let it rip and let those receivers go get it and fight for the ball. Note to Zorn: Other teams have your play calling pegged, that's the reason you went 2-6 in the last half of last season. Mix things up, and kick some ass.

Posted by: VegasJim | September 15, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Lavar is right - camp was pleasant, and that does come through on game day

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

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