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It's 7-7 with 2 Games Left

A 6-2 start now stands at 7-7 with plenty of issues looming after the Redskins' 20-13 loss to the Bengals in Cincinnati. The guys are heading to the locker room and we'll see what comes out of there. In the meantime, have at it.

By Cindy Boren  |  December 14, 2008; 4:10 PM ET
 
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Next: Monday Morning H-Back

Comments

What kind of pick do we get with a 7-9 record?

Posted by: swowra | December 14, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Aha! I'm glad you asked. probably somewhere around 11-15 from what I'm guessing. They can get an excellent FG kicker with that pick.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

You fogot to include the option all of the above.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Hey Austin,
your comments do reveal something about us as humans.

our team loses a must win and we want to hurt someone / something in revenge.
CP and Zorn are feuding and the rest of the team implodes

What a joke the Skins are:
Snyder hung out Zorn to dry.
When will anyone stand up to the pampered players?
Zorn was not supported by Snyder and this team looks at Zorn as gone!
Thanks again Snyder....

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | December 14, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

The line is horrid. What is the QB talk? When we were 6-2 it was all roses now we're not you make him the scapegoat. It's the line. You guys need to know football. If we don't have receivers that get open and we have a bad line it's trouble. Campbell got these awards:
* Music City Bowl MVP (2003)
* First-team All-SEC (2004)
* SEC Offensive Player of the Year (2004)
* SEC Championship Game MVP (2004)
* Quarterbacked Auburn's perfect 13-0 season (2004)
* Sugar Bowl MVP (2005)
* 5x SEC Offensive Player of the Week
* NFC Offensive Player of the Week (Week 5, 2007)

The "Colt"'s team lost 44-10 in the Sugar Bowl. Wow I wonder what excuse you can make for that. He was embarrassing. He's not good that is why he didn't get drafted until the 6th round and by us no less.

Posted by: bienbo | December 14, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

No all of the above?

Posted by: filmjoy | December 14, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

GOSH!

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 14, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Zorn said everyone called for Sellers play again so he called it in. Said he didn't want to QB sneak wanted someone to ram it in. Still didn't explain why he didn't give it to CP. And of course the big ex word. F you two more games of your bs. I can't wait for you to be shown the damn door.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

F Dan Snyder. He must be resisted

Posted by: Kev29 | December 14, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

F Vinny!

btw danny should pull an al davis and say you're fired and go after the money for 2nd and 3rd year.

zorny is playing with house money he made more money in one year than he would've as a qb coach anywhere in the league working 10 years.

F Vinny!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Ok everyone I voted front office is biggest disappointment.
Why?

Snyder and Vinny should have scolded CP and publicly defended Zorn.
This team has imploded.
Thanks again to Snyder, for letting the inmates run the place.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | December 14, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

This week is going to be unbarable, listening to a bunch of excuses about why they lost.

I will say it again blow up what you can, there are alot of guys on this team that you can not get rid of because of there contracts.

Snyder needs to wake up and make some changes in the FO's or this team will never get back to good football.

The players have quit on this season.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

cindy, could you text jasno and tell him that i'll buy him a bag of donuts (any brand) if he asks zorny if he's lost the team...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I just got my "release from caring" concerning the Redskins now. Thank you.

Somehow I feel more let down by this season and this team than any other Redskin team. They are not even worth feeling bad about because the whole organization just rots from the top down. There is just a palpable feeling of decay emanating from Redskin Park. Rest in Peace.

Posted by: driley | December 14, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter what kind of picks we get in the draft, Snyder and his cousin will find a way to either trade it to get an extra pick in the latter round to then draft 2 players at positions we are already loaded like at TE for example.

Posted by: JeanJak | December 14, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Why does everyone keep saying Snyder hung Zorn out to dry? The playcalling and inattention to detail is there for anyone with a pulse to see.

You're cute, Jimmy, but go back to Seattle and work with Seneca Wallace.

Posted by: messykat | December 14, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

btw...that idiotic necklace zorny has worn forever in the post game pressers...GONE!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Aha! I'm glad you asked. probably somewhere around 11-15 from what I'm guessing. They can get an excellent FG kicker with that pick.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 4:21 PM

We could, but I'm afraid we'll actually pick a mediocre FG kicker.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Only "relief" is that all-round, NFL is bad this year. Without the twin poles of NE and Indy, it seems no one can get their bearings.

Come on, JLC, instead of fanning the blame flames, do some REPORTING! Hard hitting reporting, that is. Not fluff.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

bienbo,

You should know better to judge Brennan on just the Sugar Bowl. FOX Sports just named Brennan one of the top ten offensive players of the past decade and Sam Bradford is chasing his records.

I say give Brennen a couple starts to see what can do. He showed better grasp of the offense in preseason than JC does today.

Posted by: fortysteps | December 14, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I can no longer support keeping Zorn around for a second year. That was horrible. hey talent_evaluator can you smell our putrid offense? I didn't see A SINGLE pass down field. YOU HAVE TO TRY, AT LEAST TO STRETCH THE FIELD!!!!!!! Poor officiating didn't help but GOOD teams overcome bad calls. No forced turnovers. Another early fumble. Maybe we can get Turner as our Offensive Coordinator. He'll be available(sarcasm intended)

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 14, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Wow, what has not been said about this team? They are a flat out joke! it should be an interesting off season...which by the way is the real Redskins season.......stay tuned

Posted by: strom1 | December 14, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Hey Austin,
your comments do reveal something about us as humans.

our team loses a must win and we want to hurt someone / something in revenge.
CP and Zorn are feuding and the rest of the team implodes

What a joke the Skins are:
Snyder hung out Zorn to dry.
When will anyone stand up to the pampered players?
Zorn was not supported by Snyder and this team looks at Zorn as gone!
Thanks again Snyder....

Posted by: RedskinRay1

I don't want to hurt anyone. Just break stuff and loot and end the crime spree like Thelma and Louise. Me and Poopy can hold hands and drive into the Grand Canyon.

Posted by: austin987654 | December 14, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

trevor matitch=used to like the guy until he stood up for sellers call. ugh!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Zorn was not supported by Snyder and this team looks at Zorn as gone!
Thanks again Snyder....

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | December 14, 2008 4:19 PM

Ray, Zorn could have done a lot to help his cause today by calling a better game. Sellers into the pile twice from the 1? Running Portis w/- two minutes. Etc. I think Dan and Vinny could call a better game than Zorn called.

What I don't understand is what the difference is between the first and the second half of the season. From 6-2 to 7-7. What changed?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:24 PM

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

It has been a long time since the Redskins were good...

I thought the Skins were on the right track at the end of Gibbs 2.0 and Zorn was a fresh choice...

It will be a long time before the Redskins will be good again...

Time to hunker down...

Posted by: WRBD | December 14, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

The reason you feel let down driley is that in years past (awful in their own right), the hideosity was hidden, carefully, by the likes of Coach Gibbs. This year, it's now finally all out in the open for everyone to see.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Pitiful 6-2 and now 1-5???

Someone call in the coroner; Skins are dead.
They are already stinking.

By the way Mike Sellars must bear breat blame fumbling away a 17-17 tie.

Put blame where it belongs on players as well.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | December 14, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse


Pathetic play calling
theres no excuse for not scoring more often with people like portis, moss and cooley at your disposal - even with a patch work offensive line you should still be able to score at least 20 points a game - this was the bengals for gods sake?!

Posted by: GaryClark84 | December 14, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I second the request for hardline reporting.

Posted by: messykat | December 14, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

What I think:

I blame Daniel Snyder for this. Snyder allowed Portis to undermine Zorn on his own radio station. Instead of backing up the coach, Snyder allowed Zorn to be undermined. Good owners don't let players undermine the coach like that.

I've said it all afternoon, but what happened last week points to one key conclusion. To begin with I think that Snyder didn't want Zorn but had to settle for him because Steve Spagonolo didn't want the jobs and Snyder didn't want Gregg Williams. That left him with Zorn.

As long as the team was 4-1 and 6-2 Snyder supported Zorn. Once Zorn's losing streak began he lost confidence. I think that, at some point, Zorn lost Snyder's support. So that's why Snyder allowed Portis to go on his radio station to undermine Zorn. Otherwise I'm not sure if Snyder would have allowed Zorn to do that.

At some point in the last few weeks I think that Snyder privately decided to get rid of Zorn. It wouldn't surprise me if Snyder hasn't already contacted Bill Cowher either directly or through indirect channels.

I'm not sure how Zorn keeps his job after this loss. Losing to CIN is just too bad and very indefensible.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

the answer to the question is all of the above

Posted by: strom1 | December 14, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

cindy, could you text jasno and tell him that i'll buy him a bag of donuts (any brand) if he asks zorny if he's lost the team...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:25 PM |

You're wasting your donuts, dealer. Jasno will ask that question for the fun of it; for the holes in the donuts. And, he might not be the first one to ask it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Why does everyone keep saying Snyder hung Zorn out to dry? The playcalling and inattention to detail is there for anyone with a pulse to see.

You're cute, Jimmy, but go back to Seattle and work with Seneca Wallace.

Posted by: messykat

I totally agree. Those that wants to blam this on CP. Just look at the play calling in this game.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

bienbo,

You should know better to judge Brennan on just the Sugar Bowl. FOX Sports just named Brennan one of the top ten offensive players of the past decade and Sam Bradford is chasing his records.

I say give Brennen a couple starts to see what can do. He showed better grasp of the offense in preseason than JC does today.

Posted by: fortysteps | December 14, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Prediction: Pitts beats Balt. Balt has false confidence after beating the skins last week. Fact is, as horrible as the skins are, Balt should've beaten us by a lot more. I predict Pitts dominates.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:31 PM | Report abuse

The reason you feel let down driley is that in years past (awful in their own right), the hideosity was hidden, carefully, by the likes of Coach Gibbs. This year, it's now finally all out in the open for everyone to see.

Posted by: dc4mckinney

That is probably true. What I really like is the use of "hideosity".

Posted by: driley | December 14, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Talent Evaluator: What changed in the second half is our opponents watched the films from the first half. This is the most predictable offense in the NFL and even the DEF (which overall has been pretty good) is predictable in its rare attempts to blitz.

Ergo, playing us is like a high priced scrimmage.

Posted by: messykat | December 14, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Me and Poopy can hold hands and drive into the Grand Canyon.

Posted by: austin987654 | December 14, 2008 4:22 PM

Just as long as there's a sexy Brad Pitt equivalent involved than I'm game.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | December 14, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

vegas,

Good point on the downfield passing game, or should I say lack there of.

No passes down the field against the worst defense in the league. Still throwing the ball short of the markers on 3rd down.

JC has totally lost his confidence and is playing scared.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

all you redskins fans, reality is finally setting in. we have no coaching staff. dont' blame danny for this fiasco of a team. Zorn came from a expansion team and that's how they play. clearly, he has lost control, notice he had no courage to talk smack to moss after that classless and embarrassing act. that was a disgrace to this organization and Zorn disrespected the organization also. Fire him. This guy from day one was a cocky guy. Not knowing the redskin colors? come on. i guess since he was the "genius" that he would change the teams colors after he was done destroying the rest of the organization. watch the eagles crush us at home next.

Posted by: ergoroc | December 14, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

The Washington Redskins have been "my team" since 1964, when thay got Sonny Jurgensen from the Eagles. I have watched them win, and I've watched them lose, and I've been a fan the whole time. Watching what Dan Snyder has done to this team sickens and disgusts me. I am still a fan, but as far as supporting Dan (I'm only in it for the money) Snyder, and watching him destroy this team and its long history of good, caring owners and some real heroes as players and coaches, I've decided to stop hoping and dreaming for anything better than year after year mediocrity sponsored by a man that has no real concept of TEAM sports! Too bad we can't bring back Vince Lombardi, Jack Kent Cooke, and Sonny Jurgensen, and get some real respect back for the game and the team, instead of seeing how much money we can screw the public out of for just a lackluster team and a rookie coach that is so predictable that we can't even run the ball with the best back in the league!

I give up!!!

Posted by: JohnCee1953 | December 14, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Does the Skins' site have the postgame pressers anymore?

Posted by: az_david | December 14, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

holy shti guys...people were throwing shoes at bush in iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!! check out the front page of wapo....

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone that supports Zorn explain why down 14 like last week didn't pull CP?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

I say give Brennen a couple starts to see what can do. He showed better grasp of the offense in preseason than JC does today.

Posted by: fortysteps | December 14, 2008 4:31 PM

It was preseason against players whom most aren't in the league. JC is part of the problem...a small part IMO. O-line play, predicitable play calling on the offensive side of the ball, few real playmakers on ofeense and defense that the real culprit.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

so here's my virtual show at zorny!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

In the world of soccer, Real Madrid fired their coach last week before a game against current table leader and rival Barcelona. What did he do wrong? This coach who won the Spanish La Liga title with Real Madrid last season insinuated that his team, that is currently decimated with injuries but still within shot of winning the title again in May, would probably lost to Barcelona this week.
So I dare you to find out what would have happened if the coach who minutes after being hired and at his welcoming press conference did not even know Real Madrid's team colors?
The Skins are where they are right now because of management and also because the team lost their soul by moving to the suburb.
If you move the Eagles in some suburb of Philly, do you still expect them to represent the hard core blue color workers of the city? Especially if half of these workers who happen to be their core fans can no longer afford to buy the tickets to see the Eagles play?

Posted by: JeanJak | December 14, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Whats the differnece between Zorn and Norv?

At least Norv can call plays

Posted by: mmz114 | December 14, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

virtual SHOE at zorny!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

holy shti guys...people were throwing shoes at bush in iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!! check out the front page of wapo....

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Over 90,000 civilians have died in Iraq - I'd be throwing a lot more than shoes if I saw Bush.

Posted by: az_david | December 14, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

JM220--I blame Snyder for not backing up Zorn. Apparently it seems like Snyder allowed Portis (and maybe other players) to undermine the coach on his own radio station. The owner should make it clear that it is the coach who decides who plays and who doesn't and for players to either accept it--or go somewhere else. Instead Snyder allowed Portis to undermine the coach in public.

What I think is that Snyder never really wanted Zorn. Zorn could very well have been a placeholder. I can't prove that 100%, but it's clear that Snyder doesn't support Zorn. Otherwise he would not have let Portis (and maybe other players) undermine him in public.

At this point I'm not sure if Zorn returns. It wouldn't surprise me if Snyder has already started looking for replacement coaches.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

"The Skins are where they are right now because of management and also because the team lost their soul by moving to the suburb."

Been saying that for goin on 7 years now...

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

holy shti guys...people were throwing shoes at bush in iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!! check out the front page of wapo....

Posted by: dealer1 |

That did make me laugh. To have a show thrown and be shown the bottom of a person foot is a big insult in the Muslim culture.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Hey, according to one of the gossipmongers (oops, I mean writers) at ESPN, the Jags are hosing Greg Williams after the season!

*snicker*

Posted by: messykat | December 14, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Wow, this team has already blown its load by picking the wrong coaching staff setting the team back a year, and now people want to ruin the QB position by benching our starter for Colt effing Brennan? Some of you have absolutely lost your minds. The goal is to avoid becoming the Detroit Lions, not to emulate them.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

There is no excuse to be 1st @ goal from inside the 5 yard line and Portis does not touch the ball. The play calling is the worst I have ever seen. The offense is so easy to predict. Run on first down, incomplete pass on 2nd down and throw a 3 yeard pass on 3rd down.

I don't think Zorn can handle this job. I was in his corner from the start but he needs to take responsibility. I am tired of hearing that the gameplan was perfect but the players didn't execute. I think he has lost this team.

Posted by: cspwoods3 | December 14, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Blame the coaches, blame the quarterback, blame the front office, blame the owners, blame whoever you want.

The truth of the matter is that its impossible to win a superbowl without a top of the line offensive AND defensive LINE. The offensive line allows time to pass and holes to run through. The defensive line stops the run and generates QB pressure. No time in the last 20 years without BOTH of these has won a superbowl.

The redskins have an aging and overrated O-line and a bottom 5 D-line. That is where changes need to be made if anything is going to change.

Posted by: VT_NatsFan | December 14, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Norv's RUINED the Charges.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Bring in Fassel!

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | December 14, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

dan the man made a committment a while back to Drew Rosenhaus and his "crew from da U" and is now paying the price. They have NO ZERO NDAD character, leadership, or any intangible it takes to win when the time gets tough. Pay it forward danny. Reap what you sow.

Posted by: bundy44 | December 14, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Why does everyone keep saying Snyder hung Zorn out to dry? The playcalling and inattention to detail is there for anyone with a pulse to see.

You're cute, Jimmy, but go back to Seattle and work with Seneca Wallace.

Posted by: messykat

I totally agree. Those that wants to blam this on CP. Just look at the play calling in this game.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 4:31 PM

I'm with you two guys. Imagine that Snyder had gone on TV and said "Clinton Portis should stop his damned whining and listen to Coach Zorn. Coach Zorn is my main man, not Clinton Portis. I love Clinton Portis, but I love Jim Zorn more."

Now what do you think the score of today's game would have been? I think it would have been Cincinnati 20, Redskins 13. There are problems with the owner, but he's not the cause of today's outcome.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Here we go then. 4 months of draft speculation - i say we take a WR in every round. then pick up a few WR FAs. Plus the usual anti campbell and zorn bs. you can't win in football with no OL. the spaghetti mob are to blame.

Posted by: mikeysuperdons | December 14, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Zorn can handle this job. I was in his corner from the start but he needs to take responsibility. I am tired of hearing that the gameplan was perfect but the players didn't execute. I think he has lost this team.

Posted by: cspwoods3 |

No one can coach this team as long as the owner doesn't back the coach. Riggins said it. Inmates run the asylum.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

No jiacinto. Zorn undermine himself by throwing players under the bus in the media since training camp. Blaming everythign on the player and not his sad a** play calling. Allow his ego to get in the way of what is best for the team.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

What's the point of bringing in Colt if he's going to be dumping the ball off short of the first down too? The play calling is horrid, if a simpleton like me can tell what's coming, then I'm pretty sure an NFL defensive player can as well. How do you not throw the ball deep at all?

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Ryan Clark just came up big in Baltimore!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Zorn just said the second call for Sellers was a great call just was not executed.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Now what do you think the score of today's game would have been? I think it would have been Cincinnati 20, Redskins 13. There are problems with the owner, but he's not the cause of today's outcome.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

Don't know what planet YOU'RE living on...

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

cspwoods, both times our o-line got pushed back. There's no reason why a tank like Mike Sellars should be stopped behind the line if our offensive line was worth anything.

Posted by: wangbang747 | December 14, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

dan the man made a committment a while back to Drew Rosenhaus and his "crew from da U" and is now paying the price. They have NO ZERO NDAD character, leadership, or any intangible it takes to win when the time gets tough. Pay it forward danny. Reap what you sow.

Posted by: bundy44 |

THIS IS IT

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

No seriously, I really thin Zorn has lost control of his team and the team doesn't believe in Zorn's offense. Vinny will stay because Danny will be lost without him. V& D wilol want to keep the west coast system, even though it blows, so if your going to do that ...bring in the right guy....Holmgren. If you really want to blow it up... Josh Daniels from New England. Forget about Cowher folks, ain't going to happen.

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | December 14, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

No one can coach this team as long as the owner doesn't back the coach. Riggins said it. Inmates run the asylum.

Posted by: dc4mckinney

I highly doubt Jim Zorn wasn't being "backed" when he was 6-2. Unfortunately, your weak explanation doesn't provide reasoning for losing 4 our 5 prior to this week.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Don't know what planet YOU'RE living on...

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:41 PM

Not the same one as you. You've got your head in Uranus.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

blame vinny!!!!!!!!!! vinny hired this coach. yes, snyder hired vinny but you can't fire the owner. it's vinny!!!!!!!! vinnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!! vinnyyyyyyyyyy!!!

f vinny!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Holmgren is done.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Can vote every choice that there is??

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

try not to be too bitter

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

TalentEvaluator--I agree that Snyder wasn't the "main cause" for the CIN loss per se, but he allowed Portis to publicly undermine Zorn on his own radio station. That probably did a lot to lower morale. I think that Snyder lost confidence in Zorn.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

"They have NO ZERO NDAD character, leadership, or any intangible it takes to win when the time gets tough.

Posted by: dc4mckinney

That's interesting because this exact team won 4 games in a row to take the last playoff spot last season, and won 5 in a row to take the last playoff spot in 2005. What was the difference?

Oh yea, the coach.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

uninspired play in a must win game, most penalties of the season, 13 points against one of the worst defenses in the NFL, a lost to a 1-11-1 team with the playoffs on the line, and just overall crappy performance.

A Gibbs team would have never showed up like that, Zorn is gone I hope, other than a nice quote he's brought nothing to this team and has eroded what was already here.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

No one can coach this team as long as the owner doesn't back the coach. Riggins said it. Inmates run the asylum.

Posted by: dc4mckinney

I highly doubt Jim Zorn wasn't being "backed" when he was 6-2. Unfortunately, your weak explanation doesn't provide reasoning for losing 4 our 5 prior to this week.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

That has nothing to do with Zorn's pathetic playcalling. And what happened to adding wrinkles to the offense, wildcat formation, flea flicker, etc. It's like Zorn is deaf

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Campbell got these awards:
* Music City Bowl MVP (2003)
* First-team All-SEC (2004)
* SEC Offensive Player of the Year (2004)
* SEC Championship Game MVP (2004)
* Quarterbacked Auburn's perfect 13-0 season (2004)
* Sugar Bowl MVP (2005)
* 5x SEC Offensive Player of the Week

Who cares what he did in college. He's a Heisman runner up and NCAA Male Athlete of the Year short of having been Heath Shuler.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 14, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

V& D wilol want to keep the west coast system, even though it blows, so if your going to do that ...bring in the right guy....Holmgren. If you really want to blow it up... Josh Daniels from New England. Forget about Cowher folks, ain't going to happen.

Posted by: jjwilson312003 | December 14, 2008 4:42 PM

No one can make money trying to predict what these two will do. Anything's possible!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

It's obvious(and a shame) that Zorn and Snyder don't read this blog.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 14, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

There's nothing left to say.

Posted by: austin987654 | December 14, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

LISTEN TO THE RADIO. Doc, Riggins, everyone, all saying the same thing. It's NOT the coach. It's the MANAGEMENT

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse


ryan clark just intercepted a pass for the steelers. isn't he the safty dumbo dan and vinny the viper let get away so they could give ten million to "i can't do pass coverage archeleta"(sic)

Posted by: taxiboy58 | December 14, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree with you Dealer. Vinny is the one that push Zorn and kept telling Dan to go with Zorn. So he should be shown the damn door as well as Zorn.

JM330

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Holgrem is having second thoughts about retiring. Maybe Dan will make him coach and try to move Zorn to OC. Maybe if Zorn focused on one job instead of three we would still the potential that appeared to be there early in the season.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Terrible play calling these last six games...Terrible front office these last sixteen years...Nowhere near enough pass rush or line -depth , both sides of the line..Campbell is an adequate backup qb with a decent o-line, but at this point, its time to get Colt into the game..

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

I feel like a loser. I can't believe that after a 6-2 start I made myself believe that they were actually good, stupid me, i should of known better, same old redskins. this team will never be good until danny and vinny get the hell out of here. i'm so angry right now i want to break something

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Can I second VT Nat's Fan, here?

Does anyone remember Mark Rypien? With a good o-line even a Canadian can become Super Bowl MVP.

Posted by: Section506 | December 14, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree with you Dealer. Vinny is the one that push Zorn and kept telling Dan to go with Zorn. So he should be shown the damn door as well as Zorn.

JM330

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

That would be awesome, get rid of them, bring back Casserly and a real coach, or give Cowher the key to the city. Zorn has proven he's not the guy.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Holgrem is having second thoughts about retiring. Maybe Dan will make him coach and try to move Zorn to OC. Maybe if Zorn focused on one job instead of three we would still the potential that appeared to be there early in the season.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Interesting scenario. But it makes too much sense...

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

ryan clark just intercepted a pass for the steelers. isn't he the safty dumbo dan and vinny the viper let get away so they could give ten million to "i can't do pass coverage archeleta"(sic)

Posted by: taxiboy58 | December 14, 2008 4:46 PM

No. That one's actually on Gibbs and Williams.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

JM220--I didn't say that Zorn was innocent. He's not. But I do think that Snyder has allowed players to undermine him. Under such circumstances it's very hard to succeed because players won't respect authority.

Zorn has made dumb play calls. I don't deny that. But allowing Portis to come on Snyder's radio station to trash the coach didn't help matters either.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

I wish I had free time tommorrow I would call Vinny's show every 5 minutes and ask him if the GM should be replaced due to poor performance over the last few years.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Dan Snyder is the root of all problems. He is cancer.

Posted by: slowdive | December 14, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Riggins is saying a lot of what was always suspected: There's a clique. Gibbs let it happen because he couldn't deal with it.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Maybe if Zorn focused on one job instead of three we would still the potential that appeared to be there early in the season.

Posted by: lifelongfan

As long as he's not the one calling the plays.

Down 10 points, 2:12 4th Quarter, 17 yard line, zero timeouts -- let's go jumbo package RB sweep. That's going to get the ball in the endzone.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Why does anyone want Holgren he is soft and so are his teams.

We do not need another retread HC, if you get rid of Zorn go with a young agressive current OC or DC in the league.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Dan Snyder gave me a bad haircut and spit in my orange juice when I wasn't looking.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Riggins is saying a lot of what was always suspected: There's a clique. Gibbs let it happen because he couldn't deal with it.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:50 PM

A clique among players? Coaches? Who was in and who was out?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I go back to my beantown argument at 6-2, I said then, we still have no passing game, we still have no pass rush, we still have way too much reliance on Moss and Zorn has done nothing fix that despite 14 games, not good enough, then if you factor in how uninspired they've looked the last 3 weeks and the mishaps he's had with the handling of players through the media like CP and Jansen, he's gotta go.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

We do not need another retread HC, if you get rid of Zorn go with a young agressive current OC or DC in the league.


Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 4:51 PM

Right. Maybe Spagnuolo is ready to leave New York now.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

You forgot our complete lack of a receiving corps - thats actually been the biggest dissapoint of the season for me (although our D-line has been abysmal).

Seriously - Billy McMullen could have been our leading receiver this year.

Posted by: mac2j | December 14, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Dysfunctional clique is among the players. Listen to R'skins radio!

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

jiacinto remember Zorn came out and said CP was missing blocks and not going out on passing down when he should. Zorn did the same thing with Jansen. Did the same damn thing with the rookies. Every lost blame it on the players and not his sorry play calling. How long do you think the players are going to go for that?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Of course if we don't have a front office that makes good draft picks, trades, and FA pickups we could have Belichek as coach and still not be a good team.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

TalentEvaluator--I don't see why in his right mind Steve Spagnuolo would come here. Why would he leave the NYG to come to a dysfunctional organization like WAS?

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

We lost, like what is the big deal if we try some of the rookies like colt. The season is over lets at least see what we got, it cant be any worse than the play calling. We will probably lose the next 2 with jason, why not try colt?

Posted by: lsmooth311 | December 14, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Why would he leave the NYG to come to a dysfunctional organization like WAS?

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 4:56 PM |

Becasue most coaches goal is to be a HC, not stay cordinator.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Dysfunctional clique is among the players. Listen to R'skins radio!

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 4:55 PM

What? And patronize a Dan Snyder business? I'd rather eat at Johnny Rocket's.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

The players could give a rats as*. Did you not see the close-up of the bench early in the 4th quarter...? Laughing, yucking it up without a care. Check it out on your tivo.

They could care less.

Posted by: gdennie | December 14, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Atleast the team scored over 30 with the Weird Al/ Gibbs offense. Geez...

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Down 10 points, 2:12 4th Quarter, 17 yard line, zero timeouts -- let's go jumbo package RB sweep. That's going to get the ball in the endzone.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

No kidding. That was head-scratching and mind-boggling.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

I don't see why in his right mind Steve Spagnuolo would come here. Why would he leave the NYG to come to a dysfunctional organization like WAS?

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 4:56 PM

There could be a thousand reasons. Money? Easier to follow Jim Zorn than a legend like Joe Gibbs? Tom Coughlin has bad breath? Ready for a real challenge like making a silk purse out of a sow's ear? ...

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

You fogot to include the option all of the above.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 4:21 PM


That is the first option I looked for. There is not 1 redeeming quality about this team. If you had told me before the year we would be 8-8 I would have been disappointed but probably ok with it since it was Zorn's first year. But the way we have folded up like a lawn chair down the stretch is atrocious. I have never been so down and hated this team as much as I do today. There is no hope for the future as long as Dan Snyder is alive and owning this franchise.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 14, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

+++ I think Dan and Vinny could call a better game than Zorn called.

Posted by: talent_evaluator+++

Dan and Vinny picked a guy who'd never called a game at the pro level to be the head coach, AND play caller. What in that particular stroke of genius makes you think they would be better play callers?

Mind you, I'm not defending Zorn's playcalling skills, which are terrible, but this dynamic duo could screw up a two-hotdog picnic.

The problem isn't whether or not to fire Zorn. The problem is the people picking his replacement.

If anyone wants to feel despair, that's a good place to start.

Snyder and Vinny consistently show themselves to be two of the most inept football minds in the NFL. The Portis/Zorn blowup, and the team's reaction to it, is just the latest example.

Posted by: TheCork | December 14, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Down 10 points, 2:12 4th Quarter, 17 yard line, zero timeouts -- let's go jumbo package RB sweep. That's going to get the ball in the endzone.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

No kidding. That was head-scratching and mind-boggling.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Zorn did the same thing on Madden 09 last night and it got him a TD in the exact same situation. Why go away from what's working?

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins problems boil down to poor scheme and poor execution. However, in my mind the later is more important. If players execute it doesn't matter if the scheme is bad or even if the Defense knows the play. If the players win their individual battles the play succeeds. However since the players can not win their battles it is up to the coach to figure out a way to compensate.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

az_david - did anyone answer your question? does the redskins site no longer show the post-game pressers?

Posted by: skins_123 | December 14, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

The players do not care because they are not scared of loosing there positions to young hungry guys.

The Skins do not bring in guys to challenge veterans plus with the dumb contracts they give they can not get rid of malcontents anyway.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

EVERY cloud has a SILVER LINING. And, lining today's lackluster performance and humiliating defeat is that we won't have to read this week about the Zorn/Portis kerfuffle. No siree, Bob. That's behind us now. We'll have some real stuff to read about this week.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

What an incredible waste! Where's the sense of pride? Where's the fight? I am a life-long fan, but I have never been more ashamed and embarrassed to be a fan than I've been this year! We stink against St. Louis; we almost lose to Detroit AND Seattle; and then we have the Bunglers make us look this shameful! And what kind of fan are YOU - Danny Boy - that you can sit back and allow this to continue! Look at the teams that we've ALLOWED to make us look so pitiful, and then look at how we've played against the really better teams (Pittsburgh, DALLAS, B'more, etc.)! It's pretty clear that you and Vinny don't know what the @#!! you're doing! JASON TAYLOR??? Why do you think Parcells got rid of him? Jim Zorn wasn't even close to taking on head coaching responsibilities. Besides, look at the players he's had to work with! He started well because he was new, and surprised a lot of D-coordinators. Now that his tendencies have been exposed, AND BOTH his LINES have been proven to be wimps, NOTHING works anymore! This year is another dissappointment - just like every year you and Vinny have had control! I remain a life-long Redskins fan, but I call it like I see it. You two have failed us miserably, and the only way YOU can rectify this is to swallow your Napoleonic pride and bring somebody in here who knows what they're doing!

Posted by: PhiliR | December 14, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins problems boil down to poor scheme and poor execution. However, in my mind the later is more important. If players execute it doesn't matter if the scheme is bad or even if the Defense knows the play. If the players win their individual battles the play succeeds. However since the players can not win their battles it is up to the coach to figure out a way to compensate.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

So you're saying that when Zorn calls a three yard pass play on 3 & 9, it's up to the players to get the first down. Hmmm..

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure that Spagnuolo wants to be a coach, but he wants to be in the right organization with an owner who would support him. I'm not sure that WAS is tha type of organization that he would coach for. If I were Spagnuolo, given all the drama that occurs here, I'd be crazy to leave NY for DC. Then again what do I know?

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

+++The players could give a rats as*. Did you not see the close-up of the bench early in the 4th quarter...? Laughing, yucking it up without a care. Check it out on your tivo.

They could care less.

Posted by: gdennie+++

Yeah, Portis laughed when 85 handed him the ball. Perhaps he invited him to tea after the game.

Posted by: TheCork | December 14, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

What isn't disappointing about this team? They can't even do the simplest thing correctly, like lining up.

Posted by: drschnee | December 14, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Cork,

I am coming to the dark side you have a seat open for me?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

As JLC stated early in the pre-season this is the Vinny Era. It Sucks!!!. My only hope is that someone close to Synder tells him that Vinny has been cheating on him and they get a divorce. I got a feeling there is going to be some serious under the bus comments this week.

Posted by: phatem | December 14, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

This game was the most dissapointing display of skins football I have seen in a while.. it's obvious what this team needs:
1.) A #2 receiver...TJ Houshmanzada is a free agent..
2.) Trade Randel-el and maybe package him with someone else to try to get a high draft pick maybe 2nd or 3rd round pick which you use on an O-lineman...thomas and kelly at the 3 and 4 receiver spot.
3.) Look at an O-linemen or linebacker in the first round...maybe Curry from wake forest or Laurinaitis from OSU at LB or at O line Duke Robinson from Oklahoma..
4.) Get rid of Kendall, Washington, and Thrash for sure.
5.) Need a new outside LB who can eventually replace fletcher..Blades is a solid backup
6.) secondary is set if you resign hall..dont forget Daughty comes back at safety which gives you some even better depth.
7.) Gotta get a pass rusher..maybe through Free Agency..JTaylor is such a bust.
8.) Stay with Campbell but sign a short term deal...if he cant perform with an improved line and a real 1-2 punch at receiver then go with Colt
9.) Real tough call with Zorn..I cant get a good read on the situation..I think if cowher says he'll come back and take over personnell decisions you go with him but if not then stay with JZ..tough call though. It looks like the team doesnt respect him..we missed Gibbs this season.

Posted by: jeffco01 | December 14, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

++++all you redskins fans, reality is finally setting in. we have no coaching staff. dont' blame danny for this fiasco of a team. Zorn came from a expansion team and that's how they play. +++----Ergoroc

The HELL we won't. Danny has been owner for 15 or so years and is still clueless. He has his racketball partner doing the haavy lifting instead of a football professional.

Zorn was hired less than a year ago.

.


Posted by: TheCork | December 14, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Yea the blame does fall on Vinny and Danny for hiring a guy to be a head coach who had never been more then a QB coach...F morons...Anyone think Snyder will wake up and fire Cerrato and hire someone who knows football?

Posted by: HailSkins14 | December 14, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

They've had the same (roughly) problems with the offense for the past 3-5 years. When they'r healthy, the line is good, the running game solid and they can control things if not score a ton of points.

But once they get beaten up, the running game goes south and outside of Moss, they have no receivers. Cooley is doubled, Moss is pushed around and the QB (Campbell or whomever) is in trouble.

It's personnel.

They have to get a solid No. 2 receiver who can become a No. 1 guy if Moss is hurt or is taken out of the game.

Plus, major help on the two lines.

They neglected to address these three areas in the offseason last year. Granted, it was a poor/thin free agency; but they go squat to help out.

Personnel problems made worse by poor management decisions.

These last two games will go a long way to determine how much offseason changes are done.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 14, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Cork,

I am coming to the dark side you have a seat open for me?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 5:06 PM |

But Cork, you have to understand, he's coming to the dark side IN SPITE OF you, not BECAUSE of you. Just like I'm staying on the sunny side BECAUSE of you.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins problems boil down to poor scheme and poor execution. However, in my mind the later is more important. If players execute it doesn't matter if the scheme is bad or even if the Defense knows the play. If the players win their individual battles the play succeeds. However since the players can not win their battles it is up to the coach to figure out a way to compensate.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 5:01 PM |

The problem is that the skins aren't talented enough to win the majority of battles in pass pro especially when Jansen is in. When Heyeer is in, they are not talented enough to run in his direction.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

2.) Trade Randel-el and maybe package him with someone else to try to get a high draft pick maybe 2nd or 3rd round pick which you use on an

hahahhahhahahaahhaah, on what planet would anyone give a 2nd or a 3rd for randel el, Randy Moss was traded for a 4th, randel el for a second or third hahahhahahaha the only way that would happen would be if the "package" included Portis. (which could never happen cause of his contract.....and that Snyder loves him)

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

"These last two games will go a long way to determine how much offseason changes are done.

Posted by: SteveMG"

That will be decided this week. Nobody is saving their job in 2 meaningless games at the end of the year, after blowing their opportunity the last 6 weeks.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

yeah i know..randel el and someone else wouldnt get us anything...really wishful thinking..if only we still had that second round pick we gave up for figgin jizz taylor

Posted by: jeffco01 | December 14, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

I wish Dan Snyder was 98 years old.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Riggins is saying there are plenty of young executives around the league that they could bring in to run the team, but Danny needs to stay out of all football related decisions.

Also said Vinny would never get the repect of the fans because he is so influenced by Snyder, you do not know who is actually making the decisions.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

I agree on trading Randle El,but we might be lucky to get a 5th rounder for him...Man i wish they would remove him from punt returns.

Posted by: HailSkins14 | December 14, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

They suck...they forgot that choice

Posted by: tonytttime | December 14, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

I wish Dan Snyder was 98 years old.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 5:15 PM

Be careful what you wish for. You just might get Al Davis.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Jeffco01--I think that Zorn doesn't come back. At this point that's my gut reaction. A 4-1 and 6-2 start that could either end up as bad as 7-9 or 8-8 (no way that we end up 9-7) is hard to defend. It's somewhat tragic because Snyder allowed players to undermine Zorn, but it's hard for me to see him coming back.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

That will be decided this week. Nobody is saving their job in 2 meaningless games at the end of the year, after blowing their opportunity the last 6 weeks.

If they collapse these last two weeks, they'll be major changes.

If they can be competitive, the changes will be mitagated. Hell, they're limited anyway by the cap.

To be sure, they're going to be changes after this collapse. The only question is how much.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 14, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

so the biggest question of all is do we give campbell a contract extension?

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Randle El is 1 of 2 WRs on this team that can actually run a route and hold on to the ball. Trading an actually productive player is not my idea of improving this team. If you're looking at gutting the team, look at the guys that hurt the play on the field, not help it (or guys that simply can't stay on the field due to health).

Just to name a few:

Jansen
Rabach
Thrash
Washington
JTaylor
Suisham
Springs
Griffin

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

So, uh, what kind of dance did Danny $nyder do tonight in the tunnel?

Posted by: Peaux_Sucent | December 14, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Suisham should go. He has not helped the team.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, Dan and Vinny, I waste entirely too much time and money on the NFL and beer, anyway..

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

If I were Dan I would go after Pioli from New England, I would give him as much money as he wanted and give him complete control.

Then I would shut my mouth and stay at home until the team was a consistent playoff team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

"It's somewhat tragic because Snyder allowed players to undermine Zorn"

At MOST this is "responsible" for 1 loss this year (if responsible at all). Zorn lost this team via his own actions.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Well, where do I listen, then, if it's not R'skins radio?

Sure, Zorn might be throwing players under the bus. But the FUNDAMENTAL problems are not his.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

"Sure, Zorn might be throwing players under the bus. But the FUNDAMENTAL problems are not his.

Posted by: dc4mckinney"

This is correct. The "fundamental" problem is the actual coaching that occurs on the field.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is toast. Write it down. Snyder is petulant and impatient. He will fire the smart-as* without hesitation.

This team will lay down like dead dogs the next two weeks.

Low point ever? I think so.


Posted by: gdennie | December 14, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

The Problem with Danny is there is no reason for him to own the team if he can't be involved in the decisions that is the fun for him.

Until he changes this team will suck, they will back into the playoffs every know and again but that is it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Zorn? He's a fake.

This team got to 6-2 with Gibbs' personnel and by employing Gibbs running game.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is toast. Write it down. Snyder is petulant and impatient. He will fire the smart-as* without hesitation.

This team will lay down like dead dogs the next two weeks.

Low point ever? I think so.


Posted by: gdennie | December 14, 2008 5:26 PM |
----------

Of course they will lay down.

But they wouldn't lay down if Gibbs was the coach.

That tells you everything you need to know about Zorn.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Stinkabingus!

Posted by: ILikeSonny | December 14, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

What I don't understand is what the difference is between the first and the second half of the season. From 6-2 to 7-7. What changed?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 4:24 PM

This is a great Q Talent E. What IS the difference? Why did this team fall apart so horribly after 6-2 start? THIS is the Question that jasno and all other reporters should be asking.

My first hunch: we saw in preseason and in opening game a/g Giants that the team was not that good. After the opener, everyone was preparing for a lonnnng season in the worst sense.

But then they win at Dallas and at Philly, go 4-1.

If you go back and look at those wins at Dallas and at Philly you will see that Zorn did a much better job of mixing in the pass and freeing up JC to throw, esp. deeper patterns. It seems that in the 2nd half of the season, the Skins offense could not beat the blitz when defenses brot it and it became a formula for beating the Skins: blitz Campbell, double Moss and Cooley. As Campbell struggled to find open receivers he made mistakes, maybe regressed a bit and Zorn came to trust him less and less and got way more conservative. More conservative than Gibbs in playcalling.

Part of the blame goes to Zorn for crappy playcalling and not putting in schemes that adjust to what defenses are doing. And part of the blame goes on JC for not stepping up his game, for not improving week to week, like Flacco has. (And Flacco is no world beater, but his coach understands what Flacco can do and plays to those strengths; it doesn't seem like Zorn knows how to do that with JC).

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 14, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

The Problem with Danny is there is no reason for him to own the team if he can't be involved in the decisions that is the fun for him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 5:27 PM

Flounder, I think it's just this simple. He spent $700 million so that he could be a playuh. He wants, also, to be the best playuh, but it will never happen. Others are better at it than he is, and they always will be. And, worse, I don't think he can distinguish between shti and shinola when it comes to evaluating people.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Straight up, every head at ESPN picked the Skins - along with their computer.

What a devastating loss...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/features/talent

Posted by: gdennie | December 14, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

What kind of pick do we get with a 7-9 record?

Posted by: swowra | December 14, 2008 4:11 PM |

Doesn't matter. Cerrato will trade it for another "past thier prime" player.

Posted by: JMo2 | December 14, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

What's Fabini's excuse? He had three penalties, right? Holding, false start and illegal formation.

Did he practice this week?

More importantly, did the coaches practice this week?

This team has gone from raising hopes at 6-2 back to league laughingstock.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Straight up, every head at ESPN picked the Skins - along with their computer.

Posted by: gdennie | December 14, 2008 5:32 PM

Another SILVER LINING in today's loss! We made ESPN look like the drooling fools that they are.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins problems boil down to poor scheme and poor execution. However, in my mind the later is more important. If players execute it doesn't matter if the scheme is bad or even if the Defense knows the play. If the players win their individual battles the play succeeds. However since the players can not win their battles it is up to the coach to figure out a way to compensate.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

So you're saying that when Zorn calls a three yard pass play on 3 & 9, it's up to the players to get the first down. Hmmm..

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

GA8085,
You are missing my point. I don't think Zorn calls a three yard pass on 3&9. That is just one of the routes being run. If JC chooses to throw to the underneath it is probably because he doesn't have enough time or the other receivers are not open. Also with the exception of the underneath receivers the others need to make sure they get pass the first down before they finish their routes.
No scheme problems are handing off twice to the full back on first and goal at the one when you have the 3rd rated RB in the league.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

This team has gone from raising hopes at 6-2 back to league laughingstock.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 5:34 PM

Hardly. 7-7 is just medium, not laughing stock material. Laughing stock is Detroit, Oakland, Cleveland, Buffalo. They've all underachieved.

Where we are now is right where everyone thought we would be before the season. No better, no worse. It was the 6-2 start that confused everyone.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Here's a question:

This team is going to be blown up this offseason, that should be evident. Obviously most of the guys being unloaded will not be able to be traded. But what about this name?

London Fletcher.

No doubt he's one of the best players on this roster, most likely a pro-bowler this year, and is the heart of this defense. However, he is one aging guy that may actually have trade value. If the team is rebuilding anyway, is it worth it to see what value we get for LBF?

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

No receiver should ever be running a pattern short of a first down when it is 3rd. That is poor scheme. A completed pass short is as worthless as an incomplete down the field. I'd rather take a sack or get picked going for a deep ball than throw 5 yards on 3rd and 7. We have seen way too much of that over the years.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 14, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

"Genius" Zorn took away any chance to win this game by feeding it TWICE to Mike Sellers on 2nd & goal and 3rd & goal instead of Clinton Portis.

Think Tom Coughlin would have given it to Madison Hedgecock on two consecutive goal line plays instead of Brandon Jacobs or Derrick Ward?

Noooooooooooooo.


Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone see George Michael on Redskins report last night talking about Jason Taylor? It was hilarious.

"You never buy a horse from the Amish. If they're selling a horse, you can be sure that there is nothing left in that horse. I learned that the hard way."

"Bill Parcells is just like the Amish. If he's getting rid of a football player, there is nothing left in that football player. I wouldn't buy a horse from the Amish, and I wouldn't trade for a football player from Bill Parcells."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

And yes, they're a laughingstock (second half of the season) because of who they are losing to.

Bengals, Rams, and coming soon, the 49ers.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

The difference between 6-2 and 7-7? In my opinion it is two factors:
1. Playcalling - Zorn got conservative, started playing not to lose instead of playing to win. There were low expectations of him at the start so there was no pressure. When they suddenly went 6-2 playoffs became real and he got tight
2. Oline - They started getting manhandled both in the run game and pass game.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Vinny is an idiot. His immeasurable ignorance is now glaring on mornings of Mondays and Friday.

I offer this opinion without bias.

His ineptitude is glaring by any measure.

Dan stunningly embraces this fool.

Why do we wonder where things stand?

Posted by: gdennie | December 14, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

CHRIST,,,, I WANTED TO VOTE "ALL OF THE ABOVE"....

Posted by: jkspaw | December 14, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

No spizzle. The fundamental problem has not been fixed in 16 long years. You gotta be here more than one year to understand.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

However, he is one aging guy that may actually have trade value.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 5:39 PM

Aging guys don't have trade value. Everyone saw that with Jason Taylor.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Why would he leave the NYG to come to a dysfunctional organization like WAS?

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 4:56 PM |

Becasue most coaches goal is to be a HC, not stay cordinator.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 4:57 PM

No decent coach is coming to the Redskins until there is a credible GM in place who will keep Snyder out of the decision loop and put Cerrato on permanent retirement.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 14, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

This season has proven that the team won't win until the owner is changed. They won't be able to hire a real coach with the current owner. He's had two real coaches that he let go - Marvin Lewis and Gregg with two G's. Snyder will continue to sabotage the team. He's almost certain to blow up the team, get a new coach, and keep Cerrato. Perhaps George Bush is running the team, the results appear to be the same. I'll be turning in my season tickets tomorrow and not getting back on the list until Snyder is gone. This is no longer the team I waited for years to get tickets. I would encourage all ticket holders to boycott until Snyder is gone.

Posted by: Snydersucks | December 14, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Yeah I gotta question not giving Portis one touch from the 2 in 3 plays, that's pretty ridiculous and in and of itself should get Zorn fired, that simply can't happen, the best player on the team has to touch the ball at the freaking 2 yard line.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

This team will do nothing but stay mediocre as long as Danny Boy is owner. He believes, for some reason, that because he is a successful business man that he has a football sense. He hires his racquetball buddy as his GM when no other team in the league would give Cerratto anywhere near that type of responsibility and authority. Cerratto and Danny Boy have led over the last decade of mediocrity in a parity-driven league. Danny Boy hires two coordinators before he hires a head coach, which is ass-backwards. He constantly goes for the fantasy football, big-name approach to building a team (maybe he can get Michael Vick in a couple years?)Unfortunately, as fans of the 'Skins we are used to such average football.

Posted by: fufighter2121 | December 14, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

TE,
Have to disagree with you. At this point the record doesn't matter it is how you are playing. As big a fan as I am if I am realistic I would have to say that right know they are playing like one of the worst five teams in the league. Name some teams you think they would beat playing like this? I can't think of too many.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

It's surreal to look around the league and realize that even the second-tier teams like the Vikings, Texans, and Falcons are far better teams than the Redskins.

Depressing, man. Depressing.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Here's a question:

This team is going to be blown up this offseason, that should be evident. Obviously most of the guys being unloaded will not be able to be traded. But what about this name?

London Fletcher.

No doubt he's one of the best players on this roster, most likely a pro-bowler this year, and is the heart of this defense. However, he is one aging guy that may actually have trade value. If the team is rebuilding anyway, is it worth it to see what value we get for LBF?

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

This is absolutely ridiculous! London Fletcher is the heart and soul of the defense. Not to mention how crazy it is to think Snyder/Cerrato will look at next year as a "rebuilding" year.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Heck I could be the Coach. Lets see, first down throw to Moss (The heck with the double coverage), 2nd down run Portis (8 men in the box, No Problem), 3rd down we throw a short pass to Cooley (we only do it every third down I know it will surprise them).

Posted by: rjohnson66 | December 14, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

JTaylor is killin me right now

Posted by: jeffco01 | December 14, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

This season has proven that the team won't win until the owner is changed. They won't be able to hire a real coach with the current owner. He's had two real coaches that he let go - Marvin Lewis and Gregg with two G's. Snyder will continue to sabotage the team. He's almost certain to blow up the team, get a new coach, and keep Cerrato. Perhaps George Bush is running the team, the results appear to be the same. I'll be turning in my season tickets tomorrow and not getting back on the list until Snyder is gone. This is no longer the team I waited for years to get tickets. I would encourage all ticket holders to boycott until Snyder is gone.


Posted by: Snydersucks | December 14, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

I'll be one of the last ones to defend Synder but I certainly wouldn't throw Lewis and GG out as examples of bad decisions (there have certainly been enough). What has Lewis done in Cin? How is the Jag Defense performing this year? If you want to blame Synder just mention cutting Marty after one year, hiring Mr. Fun and Gun or just say Vinny. But don't bring up unproven/unsuccessful coaches.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

As a die-hard skins fan, watching this team self-destruct as it has is so disappointing.
In all of my 30+ yrs of watching & playing football i have never seen a team that when they have the ball inside the 25 yd line will not call one pass play for the ball to be thrown in the end zone, and as for why a 1300 yard tailback doesn't get 1 single carry with 1st and goal, well only the " genius" can answer that. my skins just do not lose games like this in December.

Posted by: whyus210 | December 14, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

I seriously doubt that this team will be blown up in the off season. When has Snyder ever blown it up and started all over? They are always under the (misguided) opinion that they are one player away. I'm sure the 1st round pick will be traded for an over-the-hill big-name player.

Posted by: fufighter2121 | December 14, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

As a die-hard skins fan, watching this team self-destruct as it has is so disappointing.
In all of my 30+ yrs of watching & playing football i have never seen a team that when they have the ball inside the 25 yd line will not call one pass play for the ball to be thrown in the end zone, and as for why a 1300 yard tailback doesn't get 1 single carry with 1st and goal, well only the " genius" can answer that. my skins just do not lose games like this in December.

Posted by: whyus210 | December 14, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

lifelong--I guess they could beat Oakland, Detroit, Seattle, Cleveland. Of course before today I would have put Cincinnati on that list.

So, it boils down to what constitutes a laughing stock. They have a solid defense, an anemic offense, and inconsistent special teams. To me, a laughing stock is inept in all three phases of the game, and the 'Skins aren't there, even now.

I think, given the overall record, people are puzzled by the 'Skins, not laughing at them. And, we still have the drama in Dallas to distract buzzards who would otherwise be picking at our carcass.

But after today, I have to agree with lasvegasskinsfan's characterization of the offense as "putrid."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter who coaches the team; when your owner and "GM" stink, you stink. How could anyone possibly think Dan and Vinny are capable of fixing our problems? They are the problem.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | December 14, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

considering Lewis' team is terrible at 2-11-1 and Gregg is about to get fired from Jax according to chris mortenson, I would hardly point at them as Snyder's failings, he has plenty, but those aren't two of them.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I can't lay this late season slide at Danny & Vinny's feet.

The coach calls the plays and installs the offense. Outside of using Gibbs running game to get the 7 wins they have, WTF has Zorn shown that instills confidence for the future?

A coach has to have a good playbook, good personnel and be able to motivate his players.

Gibbs 2.0 may not have had a spectacular playbook, but he had decent personnel and he definitely knew how to get players to play hard for him; not just a select few, but ALL of them.

That's no small thing.

Zorn hasn't shown he can do that.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

none, NONE of this would have happend on Leigh Torrence's watch.....

Posted by: The_Spear | December 14, 2008 6:00 PM | Report abuse

The BOYCOT bus has a full tank and ready to roll!!

We will find a way to destroy the Dan Snyder regime yet!

For those that don't think it's possible, look at how the fans ran Millen out of Detroit. Obviously, regime change is not an overnight fix (as evidenced by the Lion's record), but the sooner this happens, the better.

What better place to start than here?
What better time than now?

If anyone still thinks grass-roots movements do not work, look at the Obama campaign.

Can we, the fans, help fix this disaster called the Redskins under Dan Synder?
YES WE CAN!!

Posted by: jgarrisn | December 14, 2008 6:00 PM | Report abuse

And, we still have the drama in Dallas to distract buzzards who would otherwise be picking at our carcass.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 5:57 PM |
--------------

LOL

This is true.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

how f'n pathetic and g*y this is such bs and i'm sick of it. so many times during a game i'm asking REALLY. kill me now. I'm embarrassed or something.

Posted by: bms46and2 | December 14, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Snyder should give Zorn the boot now i mean Zorns lost the team already it's become obvious him and Portis can't stand each other or Portis would be getting the ball on the 1 yard line instead of Sellars and not when you down by 10 win 2 minutes to go on the 20 yard line or wherever they were...You made this mess Danny boy now clean it the F up...You need to part way with that clueless bastard Cerrato and hire Scott Pioli like the guy earlier said and keep you Fing mouth shut and let him run the show and just sit back and sign the checks like most owners.

Posted by: HailSkins14 | December 14, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

The coach calls the plays and installs the offense. Outside of using Gibbs running game to get the 7 wins they have, WTF has Zorn shown that instills confidence for the future?

That right there is the post of the day. Which also goes back to why in the hell would you throw the guy that got you your wins under the bus with the media. Unless it is a ego thing.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

I think CP should be done with this team. Send him back to Denver he is not someone who will ever be a part of a winning franchise. Either draft someone or use Betts.

New coach / gm seems in the cards now. Depending on how Snidely Owl sees things. Zorn, Smith and Stump better be checking their resumes. Clearly Zorn will not not make it as an OC with this team. Given the final debacle looks like its QC for him in his next job.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

someone please tell me what is up with these play calls with 3rd & whatever, and we are throwing the ball short of the 1st down. Is Coach Zorn afraid to call a pass play over 20 yards. Big ups to my Defense, u can only do so much, i have no complaints, only next year please put JTaylor back at RE.

Posted by: whyus210 | December 14, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Riggins - Zorn, for HIS sake, should get fired. Riggins says it doesn't matter who the HC is.

Inmates run the asylum.

Posted by: dc4mckinney

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse

If the line is so bad, why aren't we hearing to let Bugel go?

I agree that Zorn is out of his element as a head coach. But Cerrato is as well as a GM. So both must go.

Cowher is not the answer. You need a solid GM and a solid head coach with head coaching or coordinating experience at the professional level. No double and triple roles for the HC. Cowher is likely to wind up in Cleveland, likely with Schottenheimer (who did more with the Redskins than he's given credit for) as GM unless, per chance, Andy Reid leaves the Eagles. Cowher used to play for Philadelphia, and has Pennsylvania connections.

Personally, I think Jim Mora, Sr., would be an excellent head coach, along with a solid GM. But look at Baltimore. They did the right thing in hiring Harbaugh. That model is the way to go: a person who has been a coordinator.

Blache is no answer at defense, too, because the Williams defense is quite suspect. Everyone else is Gibbs' staff, and frankly, they're tired. Someone needs to say it.

Face it: Gibbs knew this thing was falling apart, and he all but outright said that Jason Campbell was not a NFL starting QB. The Old Man is laughing at the speedway now (or is he at home proverbially "spending more time with family", they way everyone lies when they resign?)

Face it as well: Snyder is not going anywhere, especially given this economy.

Posted by: dsda3731 | December 14, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

Check out Zorn and his bs. Of course it wasn't his fault that dumb call didn't work.

http://redskins.com/gen/index.jsp

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Fire Zorn? What top level coach would come here with our ownership? Redskins nation was on the verge of revolt several years ago after Spurrier. If Snyder hadn't thrown a ton of money at the savior of Skins fans (Gibbs), who knows what would have happened. How quickly did he raise ticket prices?

Now, we're back to the same situation we've been in for years, Vinny and guy with a major napoleon conflict picking players and coaches. A 'smart' business guy would hire a real personnel wiz and get out of the way. Why hasn't he? Because he's the one pulling the strings and that wouldn't be fun.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | December 14, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Trade Value, Trade Value? They have a lot starting with CP.

ARE, Moss, Samuels, Kendall, Washington, Jansen ...

Might as well start from scratch.

I'd keep Jason and Todd but draft another QB in the 1st round to give him some real competition. Draft an RB.

Keep the Defense. Except Washington, Griffin, the aging guys who spend more time hurt than on the field.

Fletcher. You keep him. You've already groomed his replacement. And then there's Matt Sinclair.

But I would to a total makeover on offense for sure.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

considering Lewis' team is terrible at 2-11-1 and Gregg is about to get fired from Jax according to chris mortenson, I would hardly point at them as Snyder's failings, he has plenty, but those aren't two of them.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

That terrible 2-11-1 team just beat the Washington Snyders. Washington has some injuries, but Cincy has lost even more, including their equivalent of Portis and Campbell. They signed a RB off the street who put up 150 today.

My point on Gregg and Lewis is that they were both better coaches than the guys selected instead.

I'm with Jgarrisn - start the boycott tomorrow. A few empty stadiums will get even Snyders attention. If you have tickets for Sunday, stay home and keep them in your pocket.

Posted by: Snydersucks | December 14, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Face it as well: Snyder is not going anywhere, especially given this economy.

Posted by: dsda3731 | December 14, 2008 6:06

Maybe he'll get an appointment in the new Administration? Say, Ambassador to Bermuda. And then he'd have to divest the Redskins or, at least, put it in a blind trust and let Paul Volker manage the team for eight years? Just a thought.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

I, and quite a number of us, were pushing for Gregg W. last year.....

But in one bright spot that I noticed is that Suisham's 36 yd. field goal looked effortless. I think he may have gotten over his slump.

Too bad he F'd up the onside kick.

Posted by: charley42 | December 14, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

TE,
Laughing stock might be a little extreme but it is getting close. Lets look at the lineup:

Offense - putrid is probably the best word averaging 11 pt/gm
Defense - solid but can't make turnovers (three more dropped INTs today) and can't make a stop when they have to. They gave up 20 pts to a team that hasn't scored a TD in 11 qts
Special Teams - nothing special here, FG kicker is inaccurate, punter kicks short (was a little better today), PR runs back and forth to gain 2 yds, a penalty on almost every play. Rock is the only high point and Moss
Coaches - scheme is poor, decisionmaking is poor (not using Portis on goal line), adjustments are nonexistent
FO - do I even have to say anything.

What is just above laughing stock?

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 6:12 PM | Report abuse

I think I'm going to be sick.

Posted by: kost52 | December 14, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

What's going on with the blog? Last week it was really ugly after the loss to Baltimore. This week we lost to Cincy and it's pretty mellow up here. No one's called anyone an idiot (except for Vinny, Dan, and Zorn, but that hardly counts). I guess everyone's just given up or had drunk a lot more during the game.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

LOOK AT ALLLL THE SUCCSESSFULL TEAMS IN THIS LEAGUE... THEY ALL HAVE GREAT O LINES... AND D LINES... WE HAVE NEITHER.... THIS TEAM IS BUILT TOTALLY BACKWARDS... ON OFFENSE WE ARE LOADED WITH RECIEVERS THAT DON'T PRODUCE... AND ON DEFENSE WITH CORNERS THAT DON'T COVER.... EVEN MEDIOCRE TALENTED TEAMS (MIAMI... ATLANTA... BALTIMORE) CAN WIN BY SMASHING YOU IN THE MOUTH ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL... JUST GOES TO SHOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A TRUE GENERAL MANAGER RUNNING THE SHOW!!!!

Posted by: jkspaw | December 14, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

For those wishing to boycott the Snyder regime. I think we should take a page from these folks.

http://www.whodeyrevolution.com/

Posted by: The_Spear | December 14, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

What is just above laughing stock?

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 6:12 PM

Giggling stock? Tittering stock?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

I agree with boycotting games,but don't expect it to happen...Everyone needs to start showing up to game with signs and shirts that say "hire a GM Danny".

Posted by: HailSkins14 | December 14, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

Check out Zorn and his bs. Of course it wasn't his fault that dumb call didn't work.

http://redskins.com/gen/index.jsp

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

who do you think would want to coach under the current conditions? seriously? Of course it's up to the players to execute the friggin plays. No amount of smoke and mirrors can disguise the lousy play of the lines. Thats where it always starts and ends in football. All levels of Football, pee-wee to NFL. Period. DS and VC have royally scr**ed the pooch on this team

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

How does Ed Reed.... ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ... find the football??

Posted by: cej75024 | December 14, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

When is Ed Reed's contract up? The guy is simply amazing.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

First that should go after this season:

1) Vinny
2) Jason Taylor
3) Casey Rabach
4) Shaun Suisham
5) Dan Snyder (we can always dream)
6) CP if he can't park his ego
7) Antwaan Randle El (can't get open, has a backwards/sideways move on all his punt returns that's always a fun thing to watch, always gets yards, just not forward)
8)Marcus Washington (age and injuries...)
9) Possibly the entire '08 draft class.

Posted by: guruvinny | December 14, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Take a look at Vinny's draft history: http://www.extremeskins.com/archive/index.php/t-194590.html


It's beyond abysmal.

Posted by: fufighter2121 | December 14, 2008 6:18 PM | Report abuse

I think I'm going to be sick.

Posted by: kost52 | December 14, 2008 6:13 PM

Of course you are, you bloody fool. You're upside down on the bottom of the world and all the blood's in your head. Plus, you've probably had too many beers and it's only 9:00 in the morning. Get right.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 6:18 PM | Report abuse

living in the Carolinas, at least I have a REAL NFL team to pull for secondarily. Go Panthers.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Since the Falcons won today and they are probably going to get the 6th playoff spot, I would like to see Devin Thomas & Malcolm Kelly start as #1 & #2 for the remaining two games, and let Fred Davis start at TE.

We already know what Moss, ARE and Cooley can do. It's time to let the kids get some regular season playing time.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse


SICWIDIT's TAKE!

1) Stay the course with Zorn.
2) I had no problem with the Mike Sellars playcall...you would think that dude could get in the endzone. If you'd given it to Portis and he didn't get in, he'll be criticized for "not using your 280LB. battering ram". Damn if you do, damn if you don't.
3) Portis debacle is in the ownership. They should have blasted him in the media and/or fined him.
4) Why fire the coach of a team that has had this mediocre talent for the last four years? You can dig up Lombardi, but until you make some serious personnel moves, we ain't winning nothing.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

I disagree. I think our D-line is pretty effective against the run. Pass rush is an issue but that is easily resolved with a different coordinator and one or 2 players. The defense still has some good young LB's but they need more. The db's are near the top of the nFL. You don't change that. You try to make it better.

On offense it looks like wholesale changes are in order due to age, injury and lack of effectiveness.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

living in the Carolinas, at least I have a REAL NFL team to pull for secondarily. Go Panthers.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 6:19 PM |
----------

I'll be pulling for the Vikes in the playoffs.

They have almost no chance, but they're fun to watch.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

First that should go after this season:

1) Vinny
2) Jason Taylor
3) Casey Rabach
4) Shaun Suisham
5) Dan Snyder (we can always dream)
6) CP if he can't park his ego
7) Antwaan Randle El (can't get open, has a backwards/sideways move on all his punt returns that's always a fun thing to watch, always gets yards, just not forward)
8)Marcus Washington (age and injuries...)
9) Possibly the entire '08 draft class.

Posted by: guruvinny | December 14, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Rabach should stay. They don't even have a backup.

CP stays - they can't cut his contract, plus he's the only guy on offense who plays hard every play.

You left out Springs. Hurt too often to pay that much money.

Snyder = Loser. Redskins

Posted by: Snydersucks | December 14, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

What's going on with the blog? Last week it was really ugly after the loss to Baltimore. This week we lost to Cincy and it's pretty mellow up here. No one's called anyone an idiot (except for Vinny, Dan, and Zorn, but that hardly counts). I guess everyone's just given up or had drunk a lot more during the game.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Its what happens when delusional optimisim finally meets reality.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

We already know what Moss, ARE and Cooley can do.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:19 PM

In order: 15 yard penalty for taunting; backwards punt return; fumble.

Yep, let's see what else we got.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

the players laying down like dogs today and probably the next two games says a lot more about them than the HC! They signed the contracts agreeing to play, friggin play.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 6:23 PM | Report abuse

CP has to go. Best way is through a trade that resolves the cap issue. He opened his mouth and wrecked the season. Bye bye CP.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

Any new coach is going to want to rid themselves of CP period.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

We already know what Moss, ARE and Cooley can do.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:19 PM

And who can we put in for Sellars? He's got to be the goat of the game after giving away the ball on the goal line.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse

CP has to go. Best way is through a trade that resolves the cap issue. He opened his mouth and wrecked the season. Bye bye CP.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:24 PM |
-------------------

Sure. Let's cut ties with the guy who helped the Redskins get the 7 wins.

Then at this juncture next year, the Skins can be 0-14 and planning for who to take as the first pick in the 2010 draft.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Any new coach is going to want to rid themselves of CP period.

Posted by: periculum

Any coach that would want to rid themselves of CP shouldn't be coaching.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 6:27 PM | Report abuse

I think you are overrating the defense.

Dline - There is no young talent on the dline. I don't think Montgomery, Golston or Evans are full-time starters. They are good role players but get no push.
LB - Fletcher and Washington are aging, McIntosh and Blades haven't shown much, their is no young talent
DBack - The only place where they have some young talendt if they sign Hall. Need to cut loose Springs and possibly Smoot.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

OK, I'm depressed beyond measure....will be rooting for ATL in the playoffs.

Hoping that Baltimore, Dallas, Eagles all lose (not likely).

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

And who can we put in for Sellars? He's got to be the goat of the game after giving away the ball on the goal line.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

judging by some of these posts, I thought it was all Zorn? I suppose Zorn could lace it up and see what he has left at QB. Couldn't be much worse.
JK

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

Tavaris Jackson looks better than JC right now.

I can't believe I just typed that, and yet it's true.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Any new coach is going to want to rid themselves of CP period.

Posted by: periculum

This from the same person who had the wisdom to argue we should have gotten priest holmes to be our #2 wide receiver. CP is a top 5 back, that said, if someone would want to give up two 1's or a 1 and a 2 and throw in a high salaried player to help get around the cap issue, I'd trade him, he probably only has 2 or 3 years max left. But you're crazy if you think there is a coach who wouldn't want CP, just read Housh's comments from last week, when RB coaches put on film of how to play the position they show CP.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 6:32 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Sellars should be blamed. He made a boneheaded play but he should never have been in that position. He is a great blocker and a decent pass receiver but he is not a ball carrier. I am surprised he has not fumbled more often based on the way he carries the ball. This is what happens when the coach listens to the pundits telling him to give the ball to Sellars more instead of knowing what his players do well and don't do well.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, anybody blaming this loss on Jason Campbell has their heads up their a$$.

Once again, he was efficient and did not turn the ball over, and he got this team in a position to tie or win the game. He can't get the ball in the endzone himself when Zorn calls two FB dives from the 1 yard line (not that it was necessarily a bad call). Nor can he get the ball in the endzone himself when on the 17 yard line, Zorn calls a jumbo package RB sweep and a RB screen on 3rd and 10 - when CP promptly dropped the pass. A QB can only do so much.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

CP is a top 5 back, that said, if someone would want to give up two 1's or a 1 and a 2 and throw in a high salaried player to help get around the cap issue, I'd trade him
young RB's come around every year. Some even have breakaway speed that CP no longer has. If the Skins could get half what you post for him, it's ano brainer. Get the picks, mtrade the first rounders for proven young players and or picks.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Did Chad Rinehart play? Despite most draft boards having him picked up in the 6-7th round last Spring, we used a late 3rd pick.

Initial reports in camp were that he was a stud, then I think he had a few rough outings late in preseason. Then he just dissapeared. With the O Line in Deep trouble and still no Chad, is he another Vinny bust?

Posted by: guruvinny | December 14, 2008 6:35 PM | Report abuse

CP whines more than Priest Holmes and Priest Holmes was far more valuable to the Chiefs than CP is here. After this week's debacle I can't see how the guy can stay.

However, I agree, but I don't think you will get 2 firsts ... probably 1 would be unlikely, HOWEVER a couple of 2nds in the hands of a good GM? Could be huge.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Either Portis or Zorn has to go...I'd pick the former. I think Zorn likes Betts better anyway.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2008 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Ok. So let's say for the sake of argument that CP goes and Zorn stays.

Now what?

Does CP's departure suddenly make Zorn's anemic offense work?

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:42 PM | Report abuse

This season has proven that the team won't win until the owner is changed. They won't be able to hire a real coach with the current owner. He's had two real coaches that he let go - Marvin Lewis and Gregg with two G's. Snyder will continue to sabotage the team. He's almost certain to blow up the team, get a new coach, and keep Cerrato. Perhaps George Bush is running the team, the results appear to be the same. I'll be turning in my season tickets tomorrow and not getting back on the list until Snyder is gone. This is no longer the team I waited for years to get tickets. I would encourage all ticket holders to boycott until Snyder is gone.


Posted by: Snydersucks | December 14, 2008 5:46 PM
_____________

Interesting suggestion. However, I have come to believe that this is EXACTLY what Snyder wants you to do. The guy is a marketing genius. There is a finite number of season tickets available. The ticketholder pool is -- while not really infinite -- larger than the finite. He needs churn. Car companies know this. Real estate agents know this. Fashion designers know this. Retailers know this.

A marketer needs to create expectation to get people to sign on to the concept. Snyder does this well with the Redskins every offseason, creating the illusion that "this will be the year."

There is money in keeping this up. New money.

So, you can boycott, but since nature abhors a vacuum, there will be someone available to buy your ticket.

Your boycott, even if done from a "core Redskin" position, is essentially meaningless.

Posted by: Xlnt | December 14, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

25 carries for what? 75 yards. After all that whining on the Thompson show? Against Cincinnati? He made it sound like he was the entire team? Just put him in and they would win.

Did you morons even watch this game? The guy fumbled. He dropped passes thrown to him by JC. His longest run was 10 yards. After all he had to "let of steam" ... he's the BEEEG STAR.

Lose that guy. He's completely worthless. He can't even live up to his own largesse. At least Riggins and Clark put up when they asked for the ball. What did CP do? The damned whiner.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

Did Chad Rinehart play? Despite most draft boards having him picked up in the 6-7th round last Spring, we used a late 3rd pick.

Initial reports in camp were that he was a stud, then I think he had a few rough outings late in preseason. Then he just dissapeared. With the O Line in Deep trouble and still no Chad, is he another Vinny bust?
-----------------------------------------

Vinny is a winner and don't you forget that...

He has two rings one from the 49ers and Notre Dame..do you have a national championship ring from Notre Dame?

Posted by: The_Spear | December 14, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

I think they're both head cases (Zorn and CP). The difference is, CP produces on the field. Zorn hasn't done anything.

The fact that Zorn admits he's "lost it" during games this season, yelling at ball boys and trainers, isn't reassuring to me.

I don't think the guy is wrapped too tight.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

peeps need to stay as calm as they can stop calling for everyones head. Focus the hatred on the one true problem. Training. From the front office on down we need to figure a way for these guys to be made smarter.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 14, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn likes Betts better anyway.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2008 6:39 PM | Report abuse

If that's true than Zorn should be fired immediately, do not pass go do not collect $200...they aren't even in the same class of player, Betts is a decent receiver/3rd down back, with a history of fumbling and getting hurt. Sorry, Betts is no CP.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Why do some of you have a problem with the Sellars calls? Hasn't Zorn been criticized for not utilizing him? Due is 6'2", 280LBS!!! All this talk about why we don't use Sellars...and how we're so predicatble.

When will the players be held accountable???

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2008 6:45 PM | Report abuse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Snyder

checkout the page. I've made some edits under "Football". Please make more edits. If we make enough, they won't block them all.

Posted by: Snydersucks | December 14, 2008 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Does CP's departure suddenly make Zorn's anemic offense work?

Posted by: MrRedskin21

hopefully you get a player and a couple of first day picks for him, but maybe just the picks. You start to build a team, like you build a house. Start with the foundation, not the trim. O-line and D-line first, always. Football isn't all that complicated.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 6:46 PM | Report abuse

You need morale. Yes, that is the head coach's job. But when your star running back is a good buddy of the owner. He can go on radio shows and put down the entire team to make himself look good. YOU didn't look good today CP. You sucked.

CP might have started the season the right way. But he also brought it crashing down all by himself. He's not worth it. Let him go.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Amazing how CP gets a pass from so many....

I blame the FO for a lot of it though...Portis runs this team!

20 MILLION GUARUNTEED!!!!

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

It isn't "the Sellers call." It's the Sellers CALLS. TWICE his number was called on goal line runs.

He's big, yes. He's also incredibly slow, lumbering and not particularly good at protecting the football.

Why didn't Portis get it instead on this plays? Dunno. Maybe he didn't practice that particular play this week, and Zorn felt he wouldn't execute it properly.

koo-koo!

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

I would never wish the Redskins on Ed Reed. He is too good and deserves better.

Some of the comments on here are just very misinformed. Harbaugh was never a coordinator either. He was a special teams coach in Philly. CP has great trade value?? He is a good player with a lot of mileage on him. When you can get backs like Michael Turner in free agency and draft dudes like Chris Johnson no one is gonna trade for CP and the contract he has. Who in the hell is Fletchers replacement. Matt Sincair isn't even on this team.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 14, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Lets go Caps...Lets go Caps!

Skins r done..time to root for a winner

Posted by: JCB9 | December 14, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

You have the beginnings of a good D-line. 2 tackles and at least 2 ends. All reasonably young. You don't rip it apart. You make it better.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Who cares? Why should I care when these gutless dogs care about nothing besides padding their bank accounts and stat sheets. Zorn has losr control of this team, it's pretty apparent, he's got to go

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | December 14, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

"Who in the hell is Fletchers replacement."

HB Blades. Sinclair is on the IR.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Where's the locker room report? Did Snidely Owl fire Zorn in some cold hallway yet?

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:52 PM | Report abuse

I've got it. Snyrratto is secretly a genius. They have told Zorn to do as much as possible to piss off Portis. Then Portis will be so angry they'll get him to give money back in order to get out of town, a la the greatest linebacker of all time. Once Portis has bought his way out of town, we can re-hire Norv. He won't even have to do any new press conferences. They can just rerun his old quotes: "We're a young team."

Posted by: Snydersucks | December 14, 2008 6:53 PM | Report abuse

the lb's are old-washington, or short, all the rest. get some young big players at lb and beef up the lines.
JC, if you keep him, needs 3-4 seconds every pass play. he just isn't very quick witted. watch any other game and you'll routinely see QB's make 1.5-2 second reads and throws. ALL THE TIME!!! JC and the experiment are over!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Lets go Caps...Lets go Caps!

Skins r done..time to root for a winner

Posted by: JCB9 | December 14, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

inclined to agree. But its hockey and like most Americans born in states that typically get less than 1 foot of snow a year I don't get hockey. How many points do you get for wining a fight?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 14, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

The skins have to improve the LB position as well as their lines. HB is a good player but I think it's better as the #4 or #5 LB.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2008 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Remember the Giants?

Tiki was 40% of their O. Shockey was God's gift to football. When those primo's got the boot - Superbowl! Let Portis go. He's so banged up you're only gonna get another year or two anyway. The offense needs speed. the defense needs a game changer. And the O line, hmmmm, we need a new one.

Done.

Posted by: edvar | December 14, 2008 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Ok so we need some better personnel and better coaching, the coaching is a matter of Zorn learning or finding a new coach. For personnel we need lines LB's and RB's and P/K's.

Oh and shoot Vinny in the head.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 14, 2008 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Beginning of what Dline. We have no ends and a few role player type tackles. The only reason they do ok against the run is the only get pushed back a yard or two and everything is clogged up. The tackles get no upfield push.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Santana Moss has officially gone retarded. Reason why he polished his shoes and cost us 15 yards: Santana says "I don't care. We needed something to inspire us" ARE YOU KIDDING ME???!!!!! i'm speechless.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 7:00 PM | Report abuse

Vinny is a winner and don't you forget that...

He has two rings one from the 49ers and Notre Dame..do you have a national championship ring from Notre Dame?
-----------------------------------------
Vinny is a winner!

Director of College Scouting for the 49ers in '94, ie., he was hitting on college college chicks in Boise while they were winning a championship

Recruiting Coordinator at ND in 88, ie., he was hitting on HS chicks in Peoria while they were winning a championship.

Posted by: guruvinny | December 14, 2008 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Take CP from this offense and tell me what the hell has Zorn produce? Remember he kept Gibbs running game so he can't take credit for that. You get nothing from Zorn at all. The O looks worse than it did with Gibbs. Some of you have lost your damn mind. Trade a guy that has produce year and year for a guy that has done nothing at all. Oh I am sorry he did get the colors wrong. He did talk about staying medium but blast a rook punter. Blast CP on national TV. Told the press about benching a player before saying anything to the player. That's the type of guy I don't want or would play hard for.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Didn't it seem like JC had a lot of time in the pocket today -- compared to previous games -- and that he STILL couldn't get the ball to anyone, and threw it to "no one there" on numerous occasions?

Posted by: Xlnt | December 14, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse

this just in....
CP and S Moss wonderlich results combined don't match a hermit crab. retarded is right!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

Lets go Caps...Lets go Caps!

Skins r done..time to root for a winner

Posted by: JCB9 | December 14, 2008 6:48 PM


Couldn't have said it better myself! I have an idea. Let sblame the FO for 10 years of bad decesions (including leaving the O and D lines way to old), Our HC for calling out his best player and not coming up with any offense and Our players for quiting on the coach. And last but not least our old owner for leaving this "storied franchise" in a hole that we still haven't climbed out of.

Posted by: jandlml | December 14, 2008 7:07 PM | Report abuse

Does CP's departure suddenly make Zorn's anemic offense work?

Posted by: MrRedskin21

Nope, not necessarily.

What it is, is a start of team cohesion, by breaking up the clique.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 7:07 PM | Report abuse

That's the type of guy I don't want or would play hard for.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

That says more about YOU than the HC or anyone else for that matter!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 7:07 PM | Report abuse

Remember the Giants?

Tiki was 40% of their O. Shockey was God's gift to football. When those primo's got the boot - Superbowl! Let Portis go. He's so banged up you're only gonna get another year or two anyway. The offense needs speed. the defense needs a game changer. And the O line, hmmmm, we need a new one.

Done.

Posted by: edvar

THIS IS ALSO IT

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

the truth is that the Skins have now joined the "worst teams" in the NFL. Skins, Rams, Lions, Chiefs, Raiders. What nice company the Skins are in.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Can we throw shoes at Cerrato or the Danny at the next press conference? Give me a break, the choice of whose fault it is is a fallacy. The front office chose the players (and chose NOT to get back-ups for the lines). If it's the players faults, ownership takes the fall, too. If it's the coach's fault, well, who chose him against all prevailing wisdom? When he may have been a reach for an offensive coordinator job and no other team had him as a viable candidate for any head coaching position? Ownership, of course. And when there's no real GM to fire, the only person truly accountable for all this mess can't be fired.
The players will stay; you've seen how reluctant the Front has been to acknowledge personnel mistakes.
Zorn will stay; cutting bait on him would represent (another) colossal failure of judgement on the part of the Front
All that's left is Danny to buy an aircraft carrier with a banner reading "Mission Accomplished" on it.

Posted by: NCKW | December 14, 2008 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Zorn post game:

"To summarize it, there were several plays there that we saw were very difficult and they....they actually uhhh, stopped us on the goal line. I mean, that was really the key.. one of the keys.. and that was the um, in my mind that play right there where we had to go in with inches, and uh, you know I called for Sellers early. And they stopped us a little bit. And we said, 'Let's do this again,' and just ram it.. right down there. I thought that was a great call. I thought we were going to surge into the endzone... and uh, we ended up, not getting it,. They played very tough on the goal line."

Yep. He's a genius.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 7:11 PM | Report abuse

That's the first time i can remember falling asleep during a Redskins game. Just woke up. I shti you not. Had to check the box score to see the final score.

F the following:
Jim Zorn, Vinnie Cerrato, Dan Snyder.

That is all.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 14, 2008 7:12 PM | Report abuse

All that's left is Danny to buy an aircraft carrier with a banner reading "Mission Accomplished" on it.

Posted by: NCKW | December 14, 2008 7:10 PM |
-----------------

Why are you getting on Danny with that reference?

It's ZORN who hangs out and ride bikes with W.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Either Portis or Zorn has to go...I'd pick the former. I think Zorn likes Betts better anyway.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 14, 2008 6:39 PM | Report abuse

In that scenario Zorn is the one who goes. After this loss, although I could be wrong, I don't see how Zorn stays in DC. Having a 4-1 and 6-2 start possibly end up as bad as 8-8 or 7-9 is just too much.

But the real problem here is that Snyder willingly allowed Portis to undermine Zorn on his own radio station. Clearly Snyder no longer supports Zorn. If he did he wouldn't have given Portis the public forum to attack the coach like that. The key problem here is that Snyder didn't back Zorn up against Portis.

That says to me that Zorn has lost Snyder's support--not that he ever had it. As I recall Snyder couldn't get Steve Spagnuolo to coach the team. Zorn was the choice for which he "settled". Even when the team was doing well I'm not sure that Zorn had Snyder's support. That is a fundamental problem. A coach who doesn't have the strong support of management isn't going to do well most of the time, no matter who you put in there.

Portis is a problem for the team. He is a primadonna that acts like everything is about him--and him alone. Yes he is a good running back, but he also can be a corrosive influence. I think that Snyder has made a grave error in allowing him to undermine Zorn on the radio. Perhaps Snyder was using Portis to drive a wedge between Zorn and the rest of the team, which seems to have worked; but he's allowing a problem to fester that will plague the team later. Now Portis and any other player for that matter will think that he can go straight to the owner, appear on said owner's radio station, and undermine the team. Under such a management structure very few, if any, coaches will be able to run a team effectively. Now Portis or any other player probably thinks that "if the coach doesn't do what I want, then I can go to the owner".

I can also only imagine what the other players must feel when they see Portis being able to disrespect the organizational chain of command like that. I am sure that they might resent the preferential treatment that Portis has gotten in the past, such as not having to practice with the team, and deciding when to come in and not come into games. I am sure that that probably grates on other players.

Snyder has made a grave error. For the next coach Portis is going to be a problem. And I'm honestly sure if it is worth all the problems to keep on the team if he is going to be disruptive like that.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Lets go Caps...Lets go Caps!

Skins r done..time to root for a winner

Posted by: JCB9 | December 14, 2008 6:48 PM

Yes! I LOVE the Caps. After all, they ARE the only winners left in D.C. They play hard in every game even though they have so many injuries. Redskins could learn from the Caps, an organization that runs a franchise the right way.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

People nobody is going to trade for Portis, because if you trade for Portis you have to take on his dumb a$$ contract.

Then he can do what ever he wants on your team because you can't cut him.

This is not madden teams do not trade for old veterans, except the Skins.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Vinny is a winner and don't you forget that...

He has two rings one from the 49ers and Notre Dame..do you have a national championship ring from Notre Dame?
-----------------------------------------
BTW, Vinny had two 1st, two 2nd and two 3rd round picks to work with in the '94 draft with the 49ers. I guess George Seiferd ignored his advice on what he could have parlayed those picks into. Was Ryan Leaf or Heath Shuler was playing then?

Posted by: guruvinny | December 14, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse

It's ZORN who hangs out and ride bikes with W.

Posted by: MrRedskin21

who cares? who do you ride bikes with? get a life.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Face it, WE SUCK! losing to a 1 and 10 team with more drive and determination, what else describes our fate? Winning starts in the Font office!

Posted by: rlomax67 | December 14, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Also I think that Snyder may have already thrown Zorn "under the bus". Portis's appearance on that radio show last week was a possible signal to that effect. It wouldn't surprise me if Snyder isn't already looking for someoen else.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Face it, WE SUCK! losing to a 1 and 10 team with more drive and determination, what else describes our fate? Winning starts in the Font office!

Posted by: rlomax67

You're giving Cincy way too much credit.

You should have said with "less propensity to eff it up, with less 'I couldn't give a damn' attitude."

Cincy had their God awful moments too.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

Also I think that Snyder may have already thrown Zorn "under the bus". Portis's appearance on that radio show last week was a possible signal to that effect. It wouldn't surprise me if Snyder isn't already looking for someoen else.

Posted by: jiacinto

so much for my hoping that Snyder had finally matured!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

who cares? who do you ride bikes with? get a life.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 7:18 PM
------------

Oh, I never ride bicycles. But if I did, I wouldn't ride one with an addle-brained megalomaniac who always thinks he's right about everything.

Unless, of course, I too was an addle-brained megalomaniac who always thought I was right about everything.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to ride my scooter down to the store for more beer.

meep-meep!

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Why are you getting on Danny with that reference?
It's ZORN who hangs out and ride bikes with W.
Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Danny does give a lot of money to the GOP in MD.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 14, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

You need morale. Yes, that is the head coach's job. But when your star running back is a good buddy of the owner. He can go on radio shows and put down the entire team to make himself look good. YOU didn't look good today CP. You sucked.

CP might have started the season the right way. But he also brought it crashing down all by himself. He's not worth it. Let him go.

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

You are 100% correct. Snyder has made a grave error by allowing Portis to undermine the coach like that on his own radio station. My theory is that Snyder is intentionally using Portis to divide the team and to weaken Zorn's position so that he can get rid of him.

While Snyder may be able to get rid of Zorn, he will win the battle but lose the war. Portis isn't going to change his primadonna attitude when the next coach comes. And this is going to become a problem because Portis knows that, if he throws a temper tantrum loudly, Snyder and the team will give in. It's like him screaming "Jump" and Snyder et al responding "How High?"

Snyder may achieve the short-term goal of eliminating Zorn, but he may have created a larger systemic organizational problem with Portis. I'm not sure how he convinces the next coach (if Snyder chooses to fire Zorn) to come here under these circumstances.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to ride my scooter down to the store for more beer.

meep-meep!

Posted by: MrRedskin21

miller lite please!
Thanks.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Even the Texans can beat the Titans do any of you think the crappy Skins could beat the Titans, we would probably score negative points against them.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 14, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

so much for my hoping that Snyder had finally matured!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

I had thought the same too, but I was wrong.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

"Hip-Hip, You're FIRED!"

Posted by: aaronharman | December 14, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Maybe they should make Portis the coach. That would resolve the issue. He can be a player coach. Think about the great theater. You would have Coach Portis throwing player Portis under the bus for not practicing and then you would have player Portis complaining on the radio that Coach Portis is a genius and not using him properly

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 14, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Danny does give a lot of money to the GOP in MD.

And Peter Angelos gives a lot of money to the Democrats.

And neither of them knows how to run a sports franchise.

So, I think politics has nothing to do with it (not that the original poster was necessarily making a connection).


Posted by: SteveMG | December 14, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse

I don't think it's time to boot Zorn yet, although if he is tossed, I'd look into hiring Joe Cullen if he's available. He's a defensive wiz and popular with the players and speaks his mind.

Posted by: guruvinny | December 14, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

You can't fire the owner. Although I suppose people could start a "Draft ________ as Owner of the Redskins" campaign.

Barring that, all we can hope for is that Zorn gets better, some of the players get better, and the team makes the right moves re personnel needs in the offseason.

PS: If I could pick an owner, it would probably be Richard Branson. He seems to keep busy doing lots of other things with his other business interests (and personal adventures), so he'd probably be more like JKC: Hire good people to run the team, stand back, and only show up when they hand out the Lombardi trophy.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Hey WE SUCK!

Posted by: rlomax67 | December 14, 2008 7:41 PM | Report abuse

They gave it a good run. The season's over. Time to play the rookies and non-starters. The focus needs to be on O-line and D-line either through Draft of Free Agency.

Posted by: Sulphide1 | December 14, 2008 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Also I think that Snyder may have already thrown Zorn "under the bus". Portis's appearance on that radio show last week was a possible signal to that effect. It wouldn't surprise me if Snyder isn't already looking for someoen else.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 7:20 PM

This statement (and the others from you) is simply ridiculous! Portis does the Thompson show every week - and this is not the first time he has spoken his mind on the air. CP let B Mitch have it earlier this season. He also went off on the same show several years ago when our season fell apart. If CP is asked about certain things (which he always is) on the show,he speaks his mind - this has nothing to do with Snyder.

Zorn does the same thing - he says whatever he thinks to the media without any respect for his players. Just not as intensely as CP.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 7:54 PM | Report abuse

LisaR--A strong owner wouldn't let a player like Portis undermine the coach and the team like that on his own radio station if he strongly supported the coach.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 7:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: periculum | December 14, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

IT was ruled that he was down. So no, he didn't fumble. Did Portis bang your wife or something? Seriously..

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

revamp the O and D lines..keep Samuels, MAYBE Rabach OR Thomas, develope Heyer and Rinehart (dont know much about Geisienger) but everyone else needs to go..Draft O linemen
D line- Keep Evans, Golston, Montgomery but they are more role players than anything..Carter dissapears from games, JTaylor sucks real bad. Griff is the man but is aging..Need an effective pass rusher
Secondary- Good. Resign Hall. Horton and Landry are solid. Spring should only be paid half of what he makes cuz he only plays in half the games.
Linebackers- Gotta get someone to replace to Washington..I really like laurinitis from Ohio State.
QB- Give JC another shot next year
Backs- Leave that the way it is
Tight Ends- Leave that the way it is
Receivers- Moss needs another threat to help him besides cooley. DANNY BOY GO GET a #2 receiver. See what kinda trade value you can get for ARE if you are able to obtain someone like TJ Houshmanzada thru free agency. Develope Thomas and Kelly.

Vinny has gotta go.

Posted by: jeffco01 | December 14, 2008 8:01 PM | Report abuse

Rinehart did not get into the game.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 14, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

I am by no means a Dan Snyder supporter, but I don't really understand those who are on his back about letting CP rip the coach "on his radio station". CP has a scheduled appearance on the show and what he says is his own business.

Now, the fact that CP thought he could/should say what he did speaks to the atmosphere surrounding the team and franchise - which I would describe as toxic and dysfunctional.

The Skins have been mediocre to downright bad ever since Syder came to town. We have been through a bunch of coaches, multiple schemes, tons of players and the result doesn't change. Snyder is the constant, so at some point the evidence is beyond argument and I think we're there.

Since big Dan won't be selling anytime soon, the only solution is to remove him from the decision tree as much as possible - WE NEED A STRONG GM who will be here for 4-5 years at least. Imagine if Snyder had hired Parcells in the offseason...

How many teams currently DON'T have a GM like the Skins? The Cowboys come to mind and they haven't won a playoff game since the 1990s so the results of this management style are poor from what I can tell. Vinny Cerrato will never be a GM no matter what his official title may be.

HTTR

Posted by: snoopylad | December 14, 2008 8:05 PM | Report abuse

I never said Snyder strongly supported the coach - why would he after we had lost 4 of our last five games (before the loss today)???? Whatever reason would he have to support the rookie coach of a team who can barely score 10 points???? CP was the NFL's leading rusher until 3 weeks ago.

Realistically, we should not have had the good early season but when it happened everyone got excited and thought Zorn was a genius. We had a little luck (and a lot of Portis) and that is why we won. Now, it is clear Zorn is what he originally was meant to be... a rookie head coach.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Everyone from the front office on down needs to accept blame. No one is immune. Front office, coaches and players all suck. I felt like I wasted money going to see this game. Way to hold on to the ball in critical situations guys. How about teaching these guys the basics.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2008 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Well I think that Snyder is a Jerry Jones wannabe.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 8:13 PM | Report abuse

What everyone fails to think about if we boot Zorn is this will be Campbell's 8th offense in 9 yrs.... We might as well bring another qb with the new coach...

Soups is starting to regress a bit... his wind up and long throwing motion is back and that's causing him to hang onto the ball again... he hasn't been very accurate these past few weeks....

FIRE DANNY SMITH 1st...
FIRE VINNY ( never happen in a million years )

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | December 14, 2008 8:16 PM | Report abuse

scamp your last sentence says it all. FUNDAMENTALS. What has happened to our fundamentals in the past few months?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 14, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

r i p zorno,never have liked him,if we could get rid of him and vinny it would be a merry christmas for me,no matter the final record of the skins

Posted by: DLESMonday | December 14, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Ok. Wow. Lets all calm down a bit. This team was picked to be last place in the division and they are who we thought they are. We didn't improve the trenches during the offseason and this is what we are stuck with. We should lose Springs, Washington, Griffin, Jansen and Rabach. Build our lines through the draft and make a run at a Suggs or Haynesworth type player. This isn't going to be fixed overnight so we have to be patient. This team is old and we need to build the right way. As far as Zorn, he is a first year head coach. Snyder should honor his contract and give him his due. Tearing up the entire coaching staff would show the fans that Snyder has no business in putting together a winning team because he lacks the patience and intelligence to see a system put in place.

Posted by: cmalar1 | December 14, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Let me get this right. It's alright for Zorn to go on the radio and in his pressers to throw players under the bus. But it is wrong for the player to do the same thing the coach has done since training camp.

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 14, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Well I think that Snyder is a Jerry Jones wannabe.

Posted by: jiacinto

If Snyder is a Jerry Jones wannabe he would be on television all the time...being interviewed....making statements, etc. Jerry Jones lives for the media. Snyder rarely comments on anything.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

"Well I think that Snyder is a Jerry Jones wannabe"

Unfortunately, he's worse. Despite having a background in football (unlike our Danny), he hired Jimmie Johnson and won 3 superbowls before letting his ego get the best of him and trying to do it on his own. Snyder's ego took over from day one, and he's never had any real success.

Snyder and Vinny broke 100 million dollars after 1 year with Jeff George and Mark Carrier before Marty came in and cleaned house. Marty wouldn't let danny play GM, so he was gone in one year despite getting us back under the cap and finishing 8-8. It's been all downhill since then.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | December 14, 2008 8:22 PM | Report abuse

fire jim zorn

fire jim zorn

fire jim zorn

thank you

Posted by: jrak1 | December 14, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

hey all...another debacle...i still think zorn and jc and the rest need not be blamed
it is danny and vinny...snyrato
snyder has made the skins one of the most profitable organizations in the nfl..yet not very successful on field
I SAY WE BOYCOTT PURCHASING TIX AND/OR MERCHANDISE TO SHOW HIM WE ARE PISSED AT HIM NOT HIS COACHES AND PLAYERS
maybe he'll stop spending so much money on players/coaches and actually build a team of substance
we need a change and it is danny boy who needs to go
ooooohhh i am sooo angry but have been for so many yrs ...i cant take it anymore...we need a respectible owner and one w/ patience who will rebuild
i'll take 2 losing yrs if we are looking at being a super bowl team w/ 2-3 appearences over a 5 yr stretch
WHO'S W/ ME?...SNYDER AND CERRATO OUT

Posted by: jj44skins | December 14, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

But Synder and Cerrato aren't going anywhere. That's the ugly reality. Maybe I should finally accept that the Washington Redskins are rapidly turning into the Detroit Lions.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 14, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

What a disaster! I've never, in all my years of watching this team, felt as bad about a loss as I do today. This was an embarrassment. Just a total and complete meltdown. Did anyone even see this loss coming today? I surely didn't. Even as badly as I know things have been trending the past few weeks, I definitely didn't think the players would lay down today the way they did. My major issues at this point:

1. I don't like the way Zorn always blames the losses on the players. But I also don't like the way the players don't seem to be able to motivate/push each other to win games as a team. I see no fire, no intensity, from any of them. Cooley fumbling. Portis whining. I'd LOVE to see JC walking up and down the sidelines yelling at his offensive teammates to rev them up. THEY need to step up and play with pride, even if they're pissed at Zorn. Do it for their own sense of pride. Hell, do it for this "clique" you guys are talking about. Just have some pride.

2. I HATE Vinny, obviously, and Snyder, too. I've listened very closely to Vinny on the radio the last few weeks and my conclusion is that he's an egotistical idiot with some serious character flaws. Not only is he a bad football manager, he's just truly not a nice person. He's a jerk, actually, and in true jerk form, he'll handle these next few weeks - which promise to be abysmal - with zero integrity.

3. I fear the worst now...Snyder will fire Zorn, which I'm not sure is the best move, all things considered, and JC will be left twisting in the wind, gearing up to learn yet ANOTHER offense with yet ANOTHER team of "offensive wizards". Guess what? He's going to implode...or go to another team. Why would he stay here and learn a new offense when he can go to another team, start fresh with THEIR new offense, and kick our asses down the road? He's a good QB, I think, and he's going to be a good for another team sometime soon. You watch.

4. I am not a fan of Zorn's playcalling is certain situations (I mean, WHY run on 3rd and 2 when you have CP? Why does CP always seem to come OUT on 3rd and 2, come to think of it??) But I wonder if another year of Zorn, after a decent draft and another offseason, might do everyone some good? I don't know...I'm just putting it out there. Firing people at the first sign of trouble hasn't really worked for us...why not try sitting tight for a while and trying to push through it? Find out what everyone is made of?? Learn who the leaders are and who needs to go?

I don't know. I think I'm grasping at straws. I'm just totally depressed. SIGH.

Oh, and Hanrahan said on today's pregame show on 980, that the team DID try to get in touch with CP on Monday to clear the air, but he was 'unavailable'. Sounds like CP was planning to unleash on Zorn publicly from the get-go, and made himself 'unavailable' until after his Tuesday radio appearance. Was the whole thing master-minded by Snyder??

Now I'm REALLY depressed.

Posted by: mommyskinsfan | December 14, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

(1) I rejoiced when I thought Campbell had a minor injury and we could put Colt in there. I didn't want Collins, I wanted to see Colt.

(2) Pass near Goal line to Cooley, if thrown accurately scores. Instead settle for FG because Campbell is repeatedly inaccurate. The Skins have a big, problematic decision looming. Re-sign Campbell or not. I am not sure he is very good, but then we have so much invested, if he goes to another team and does great it will hurt.

(3) Cooley and Portis with miserable fumbles. Fabini offsides, constant alignment penalties make Zorn look like a fool. Another game of bad playcalling for Zorn. I can't say with any certainty that we should keep him. He is too meek and nice to be a HC.

(4) I defended Portis, but when I watch NFL blitz, I am tired of other teams running backs running full speed and breaking away for touchdowns. I am not sure Porty has break-away speed anymore. I just bought his Jersey when I saw the $20M deal, I thought he would be a Captain for awhile, guess it ahngs in the closet with the Arrington Jersey. Can't we get a Captain who stays and is considered a serious performer, with no big drama? Other teams have this.

(5) I saw a lot of penatlies called against the Skins and not called against Cincinati. 45 yards of affect on one play where it was a hold on Cinci, reversed and penalized to the Redskins putting them at the 10 yard line. I can't tell if this is the mysterious "homefield" advantage or not. Clearly Sellars forward momentum was stopped to where the fumble should have been rules as occuring after the whistle. Also I saw nothing to overturn the first score. The Redskins do not receive such homefield advantage and it is reflected in their homefield record. Snyder needs to pay-off someone in NY or share more revenue or do something so the other owners and the league office agree that the Skins get even treatment.

(6) Since we are in teh NFC east, we have the same problems as the Orioles have being in with Boston and NY. We will never win the Division, we will never get a home playoff game. If I am Dan Snyder and I don't want my franchise run into the ground like Angelos, I start petitioning for realingment. The Skins will go another 15 years with no home playoffs with Snyder and Vinny at the helm. It's clear we have two of the worst offensive and defensive lines in the league.

Posted by: DownTownClown | December 14, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

JJ44skins,
Great points! As much as it sucks, I'm not sure I'd give up the tickets our family has had for 60 years. I am going to do my part by never (and I mean never) buying another piece of redskins s**t again. I've got plenty of tshirts, hats, jackets to last me for a decade. No more food at the games either; I'll eat in the car instead of buying 10 dollar pretzels.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | December 14, 2008 8:33 PM | Report abuse

YOU GUYS ARE IDIOTS IF YOU THINK CP IS THE PROBLEM ON THIS TEAM..WITHOUT CP, WE WOULD BE 0-14..LEARN FOOTBALL AND GET A CLUE

Posted by: ripmeast21 | December 14, 2008 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Gawd, if sports franchises fired coaches and management as much as fans wanted (all fans - visit other boards for example), they'd be changing things every other week.

We knew going into this season that depth on the offensive line and the lack of a second receiver was going to prevent this team from going anywhere. And it's come true.

Granted, Zorn has show zero imagination in getting points. He may know the West Coast Offense but does he know how to move the ball when that offense can't be run due to injuries and adjustments?

Right now, he looks like a one trick pony. But he's got to be given more than just one season to show what he has. If they're this bad at this point next year, then we can get the pitchforks and rope out.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 14, 2008 8:35 PM | Report abuse

i hope there is no sal cap in 2010 not so we can go on a crazy spending spree but so that we can dump all these "professional" athletes. these guys couldnt get up for a naked blonde

Posted by: hcicron | December 14, 2008 8:39 PM | Report abuse

Gawd, if sports franchises fired coaches and management as much as fans wanted (all fans - visit other boards for example), they'd be changing things every other week.

Posted by: SteveMG |

Now you know how we 'skins fans feel about our owner, who DOES change things every other week.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

There is no question the glaring deficiencies with this football team have come full circle.

Vinny Cerrato and the rest of this front office's failure to address talent efficiently and consistently is being shown.

Until Dan Snyder wakes up and realizes he has to make the business decision to FIRE his buddy Vinny - this franchise will continue to thrive in mediocrity. Snyder needs to bring someone in that knows football and knows how to address talent on a consistent basis. Cerrato has not done that. Sure he's had a success story here and there. Plain and simple Cerrato had his chance. But Snyder remains stuck in the cloud of "oh but this is my buddy."

Until Snyder realizes he has to look at himself in the mirror and realize the team's failure goes beyond the players and coaches - he's going to remain stuck with disappointment. Snyder's ego and pride need to be put aside and he must fire Cerrato and get people in here that know football. Enough said.

Hail.

Posted by: Jonathan6 | December 14, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

will people stop saying portis fumbled, the ruling was he fumbled, the challenge was that he didn't the Bengals won the challenge which backed up 4 yards from where ARE recovered to where Portis WAS DOWN before his NOT fumble....Cooley could end up with the most meaningless 1000 yard receiving season ever, he has fumbled a lot, has 1 freaking TD, and has had very little positive impact on any game this season thanks to 4 fumbles and piss poor blocking.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

here is what i do not like about the redskins
--------------------------------
daniel snyder - immature, ego maniac

vinny cerato - psycho, idiot. mental case.

the average age of the o line, d line team in general

jim zorn - no fire. the play is a reflection of his laise faire attiude

jason campbell - waste of so , so much time, reasoureces etc on a guy who was projected to go in the second round, who we gave up two high draft picks for and devoted the future to figuring out what the other teams persoel dept. knew.. he's not a great qb.. period. all you campbell defenders are biased and not being objective. he's not as good as flacco, he'll never be matt ryan, or manning etc.
we need to draft someone else.

no d tackles

no d ends

jason taylor-- ?

suisham - how is this guy still on the team? i really don't understand.. really.. i thought he'd be gone. he sucks. not an nfl kicker. how many 40 yd penalty's have we got this year.

shawn springs - too old

no big reciever

cooley - way over rated should have been let go and not gotten the big contract. but he's white .. ( i'm white too, i just think snyder is building a little fantasy cast of a team instead of knowing what the hell he's doing and a white guy with a cooley name hey! let's overpay him ! )

but it really all comes down to snyder and i would like to personally appeal to his wife who i spoke to briefly in seattle to leave that little metrosexual and please move on take the money and run baby ! lord knows it doesn't really seem to be about love , not with snyder sneeking around with cerato every night .. doing coke.. and ruinng my team ..

i was thiking is it possible for the fans to buy the redskins? or boycorr new skins merchendise or six flags or tom cruise or something and force that female dog to sell ?

please let's get on this skins fans it could be our only hope for the next 20 yrs or so

please universe save the redskins


Posted by: jrak1 | December 14, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

cooley - way over rated should have been let go and not gotten the big contract. but he's white .. ( i'm white too, i just think snyder is building a little fantasy cast of a team instead of knowing what the hell he's doing and a white guy with a cooley name hey! let's overpay him ! )


....does anybody even know what this means, I can't even tell if its racist cause it just makes no sense

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 8:47 PM | Report abuse

it's so racist

Posted by: jrak1 | December 14, 2008 8:48 PM | Report abuse

If Jasno is listening, I'd like him to see what "other executives" in the National Football League attribute the stunning turn-arounds of Miami and Tennessee to? How about Atlanta who was supposed to stink? The Cardinals?

A GM perhaps? Veteran QB's for Tennesee, Miami, and Cardinals? A focus on both lines in the draft? What is it that they did to go from first to worst? Did the owners agree that those franchises needed to have some success in order to meet an unknown formula? Vick is gone, so the customer base in Atlanta needs a stiff dose of winning? Miami wins one game last year and goes to the play-offs this year? Not only improbable statistically, it flat out stinks! Is the NFL a Cartel with closed door "competition" meetings? Why have those three teams turned things around so dramatically when teams like the Skins have to build brick-by-brick and barely scarpe into the play-offs--then go on a 5 ot 6 game losing skid when they supposedly had an easy schedule?

Posted by: DownTownClown | December 14, 2008 8:48 PM | Report abuse

How Jasno?
He's been writing all year about the chaos in our organization with Snyder(and getting absolutely bashed over it). Turns out he was right.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | December 14, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

jrak1: time to change the aluminum foil in your hat, dude!

Posted by: davebutz | December 14, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I want them to keep Campbell, too, he might be a deep kapha late bloomer who needs the right coaches and for now, he's an ok backup. But we need to see some of Colt for sure and the rest of the rookie assets step up in a starting environment. Everyone agrees Cerrato needs to go, but like some have pointed out, Danny is going to be here for awhile in a tough economy with his most profitable hard asset the Skins still in his grips..."HEY, CLINTON PORTIS!!! YOU'VE JUST GOT KICKED OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME, WHERE ARE YOU GOING!!!"
"I'm going to Six Flags, man..."

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 8:54 PM | Report abuse

jrak1,
Did you just call yourself out as a racest?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 14, 2008 8:55 PM | Report abuse

vinnymustgo...would never ask anyone to give up tix especially 60 yr family tradition....but like the steps of not purchasing merchandise...i will not buy another piece of redskin gear until things change...we should go to games..but lets atleast start chants letting danny know his wrong doing
as for zorn and the o line, etc...that is this yr...everyone who keeps critizing this is ridiculous...i was just happy to see zorn able to some what coach in his first yr ever...give him a chance...but this whole thing is a danny/vinny failure either way
I mean the skins have sucked since snyder got here..they had good players but never the right chemistry...forget about waisting breathe on killing the current team/coaches...it is always dan/vinny who have put this together...if they change stuff, we r just in for another few yrs of misery
i want dan out..which as others have said is unlikely and i agree..but vinny can go if danny ever wakes up
if we keep boycotting retail skins gear and chant negatively about the dan at games maybe he'll listen
we need a voice
ive been a fan for 30yrs and i aint going anywhere...they'll always be my team as far as i live... but im don't have to be happy about it
if snyder just hires a gm and a good coach (maybe it is zorn..i dont knoW)..give em 3yrs and let it ride...if it doesnt work, i'll atleast credit him w/ the effort
i just cant take these games no more...i cry every week...

Posted by: jj44skins | December 14, 2008 8:58 PM | Report abuse

First to worst, worst to first, crappy teams from last year are winning and I don't get it.

I am really pissed about this 5 game losing skid. It seems like everybody has the script but the fans.

When the founding NFL fathers wrote the fubbal constitution, they left no leverage, no checks and balances for the fans. As others have pointed out, as a fan of a particular franchise, your only choice is to vote with your feet, and even then in a town like DC, there's a line 2 or 3 deep behind you when you leave.

I dream of an empty stadium at game time one year in future and Dan and Vinny sitting alone in the Press Box with astonished looks on thier faces. "it looks like they really were pissed!"

Posted by: DownTownClown | December 14, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

mr downtownclown.. ( and the rest y'all too! especially you ; snyder.)

well in miami i think bill parcells really saved that team.. be brang in pennigton , sparano and totally overhauled that roster and not by signing over priced free agents or paying jason taylor who of course we the total opposite side of the well run team spectrum decided to waste draft picks and money on as always cause we don't build a team we cast a team for snyder fawn over
and unlike wayne huizinga in miami, snyder always insists on being involved, running things with his lover vinny cerato and has a horrible reputation in the nfl so people like the d coordinator for the giants or bill parcels, or other respected football people stay away from the redskins. look what he did to marty s and marvin lewis? he should fire zorn but only cause he should't have hired him.. he has no idea what he is doing and needs to back off or sell the team. soon.

Posted by: jrak1 | December 14, 2008 9:00 PM | Report abuse

(1) I rejoiced when I thought Campbell had a minor injury and we could put Colt in there. I didn't want Collins, I wanted to see Colt.

Posted by: DownTownClown | December 14, 2008 8:32 PM

Unfortunately you were going to see Collins, he was the one warming up.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2008 9:01 PM | Report abuse

Campbell could never make that last throw with the pressure on to dump it over the top to TO, b/c his wind up is too big...... he has to shorten that throwing motion...

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | December 14, 2008 9:02 PM | Report abuse

cooley - way over rated should have been let go and not gotten the big contract. but he's white .. ( i'm white too, i just think snyder is building a little fantasy cast of a team instead of knowing what the hell he's doing and a white guy with a cooley name hey! let's overpay him ! )
Posted by: jrak1 | December 14, 2008 8:41 PM |


What is this dude talking about?? Cooley is consistently in the top 4 or 5 for TE's in terms of receptions and receiving yards..

Posted by: jeffco01 | December 14, 2008 9:03 PM | Report abuse

The secret good thing about Cooley (last year and years before) was that he had IMPACT.

This year - not.

He's had no impact this year. In years past, put him in, he makes a play and the mo is changed.

That has not happened this year. Therefore, his numbers don't matter.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

As a business entity the Washington Redskins are a grand success. The business makes money while the product continues to erode. In our free enterprise system this keeps the senior management in place; after all, they are making money. If the product is continually getting worse we should look at senior management Mr Synder. Replace the front office, not the field mangers. Leave Jim Zorn alone and replace the one constant, Vinnie Cerrato, that has presided over the product that we, the consumer, are presented with. Fire Cerrato tonight. We, the consumers, will continue to support the team and the Redskins will be profitable. Mr Synder, fire Cerrato tonight and let's move forward as a team.

Posted by: keith18 | December 14, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

Cooley used to catch a ball on third down, and exceed the first down marker.

This year he's well short, by 2-3 yards.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:08 PM | Report abuse

I see some people have come overw to my thinking of getting rid of Zorn.

BUT, we shouldn't just outright fire him so he can coach in Seattle.

We should trade him for 2 2nd rounders......


Also, why must he continue to take the ball on the toss instead of defer? We have had the worst opening drives I can remember in a long tie......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 14, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

jeffco01,

4 or 5 isn't 1 or 2 .. he's good , not great and hasn't been productive since he was signed.

but i wouldn't say cooley is a major problem or anything but the skins have a pattern of letting guys we develop go like antonio pierce .. and signing other teams free agents..
with cooley we paid him and he's what's he done? sellers is way more valuable then cooley. what does he make? ( more then most of us probably.. but relative to cooley i don't think nearly as much , though i don't know for sure.. anyone? )

Posted by: jrak1 | December 14, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

He's had no impact this year ... Therefore, his numbers don't matter.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:06 PM

Well, the number of fumbles has made a difference. But, yeah, his other numers are irrelevant.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

4th--Did you get the articles I sent you?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:15 PM | Report abuse

As goes Cooley's numbers, so goes the offense..But what was up with Santana doing the elaborate voodoo ritual which drew a flag after he scored the touchdown?? Maaan, I thought I was crazy, the whole team seems on the Loop-De-Loop..

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Cooley hasn't made as much of an impact because everyone now knows that he's 1 of only 2 receiving threats we have.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2008 9:19 PM | Report abuse

I thought they'd lose 17-10 (from last week's post). At least they scored three more points than predicted (but then again, so did the Bengals). the Skins are in the bottom five in the NFL. Their record is better than they actually are. Snyder needs to change his ways as his way of ownership had produced mediocrity at best. Zorn would be the big winner if he is fired. No one will blame him for failing - after all, it is the Snyder owned Redskins that he tried to guide. And with Snyder meddling as he usually does, what chance does any coach have? Good luck to Dan if he thinks he can attract top talent to this mess.

Posted by: Almazar80 | December 14, 2008 9:20 PM | Report abuse

Time for Snyder to consider clearing room for Matt Cassell to replace Jason Campbell.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2008 9:20 PM | Report abuse

As goes Cooley's numbers, so goes the offense..But what was up with Santana doing the elaborate voodoo ritual which drew a flag after he scored the touchdown?? Maaan, I thought I was crazy, the whole team seems on the Loop-De-Loop..

Posted by: frak

Guess you missed the postgame on the radio. Riggins talking about a dysfunctional clique undermining the team (lots of "U" players.)

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:20 PM | Report abuse

I see some people have come overw to my thinking of getting rid of Zorn.

BUT, we shouldn't just outright fire him so he can coach in Seattle.

We should trade him for 2 2nd rounders......


Also, why must he continue to take the ball on the toss instead of defer? We have had the worst opening drives I can remember in a long tie......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 14, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Right, cause teams are going to line up to give two draft picks for a guy that missed the playoffs after a 6-2 start, who's team has steadily gotten worse as his tenure lengthened, and who's team looks like it quit on him and can't even line up right.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 9:23 PM | Report abuse

As goes Cooley's numbers, so goes the offense..But what was up with Santana doing the elaborate voodoo ritual which drew a flag after he scored the touchdown?? Maaan, I thought I was crazy, the whole team seems on the Loop-De-Loop..

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Didn't realize cleaning your shoes was an elaborate vodoo ritual......

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

If you think it's all about Zorn, you haven't been paying attention the last 16 years. It's one coach after another here. It's not Zorn.

It's Snyder.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Riggins talking about a dysfunctional clique undermining the team (lots of "U" players.)

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:20 PM |

That doesn't make any sense. We've only got three guys from the U -- Moss, Portis, McIntosh. Takes more than three to make a clique.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Think outside the box...

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

That doesn't make any sense. We've only got three guys from the U -- Moss, Portis, McIntosh. Takes more than three to make a clique.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

how many exactly then?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

te,

i'm sure you know more about football than the HOF'er Riggins right?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 14, 2008 9:29 PM | Report abuse

If you think it's all about Zorn, you haven't been paying attention the last 16 years. It's one coach after another here. It's not Zorn.

It's Snyder.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:25 PM

Snyder bought the team in 1998. Why's he the problem for 16 years? Did he jinx it before he bought it?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Dint Santeria pull out a piece of paper and grind something into endzone turf??

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

10 then

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Fire Zorn. Hire Holmgren. Fire Vinny. Hire competent GM. Same offense for Campbell with an accomplished coach and play caller.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 14, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

'92 Superbowl

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

jrak1 is the only guy with half a brain on here.

Posted by: mack1 | December 14, 2008 9:35 PM | Report abuse

10 then

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:32 PM

It does feel like we've been beating our heads against the wall for a long time, but ten years is even longer than it felt like.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:36 PM | Report abuse

jrak1 is the only guy with half a brain on here.

Posted by: mack1 | December 14, 2008 9:35 PM

Right. The rest of us are working with a full brain.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:38 PM | Report abuse

is anybody here actually going to watch the eagles/redskins game next sunday?? the only way i watch this is if colt is in there. if not, then it's the same old boring crap we've all been seeing except this time it doesn't matter cause we're not going to the playoffs. i just want to see colt for fun, see what he can do, it's not like we're fighting for a playoff spot anyway.

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Well, if you must fire Zorn, that Texas Tech Coach is up and racks some mad numbers..But Zorn might be ok if the Skins had more line depth, CERRATO!!!!!

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

te, what?

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Just checked the email. Thanks, got em! I will prob read on them starting tomm morning. Just did a quick skem (sp?) and it looks interesting to me.....

Thx again....

Jack - You're right. It's going to be hard to trade him now for 2 2nd rounders.

But we should still be able to get a conditional 7th rounder if Seattle keeps Zorn as HC on opening day.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 14, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

And it's a very stupid half.

Posted by: mack1 | December 14, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

When I watch the Redskins in my family room wearing my 31 Cartwright jersey, I wear a bag over my head. When I go to the games and sit in my $3000/year club seat I hope the tv cameras don't show me to friends who might be watching on tv at home. I wish I had brought my bag. When I see the ad on the Skins web site that says show your passion, get a Redskins Visa card, I look over my shoulder to see if anybody sees me looking at the Skins website and if somebody is looking, I put my bag on quick like and I say oh my finger slipped on the mouse. Snyder, you little shallow classless man, sell the Redskins to somebody who knows what he's doing, so I can take the bag off my face.

Posted by: getitritegov | December 14, 2008 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Giving Colt a chance - eh, doesn't matter.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:42 PM | Report abuse

te, what?

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 9:39 PM

I guess what I was trying to say is that I'm surprised that Snyder has been the owner for ten years. I shouldn't be because it seems like forever since we've had anything good from this team.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

All we are sayingggg..

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 9:46 PM | Report abuse

Come on people, get on board. Fire Vinnie Cerrato tonight Mr Synder. Fire Vinnie Cerrato tonight.

Posted by: keith18 | December 14, 2008 9:46 PM | Report abuse

is anybody here actually going to watch the eagles/redskins game next sunday??

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 9:39 PM |

Of course. I watch every Redskins game. Do you only want to watch when they win? There's a name for someone like that.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: getitritegov

That's funny man. They should organize bag day for next Sunday against the eagles. 50,000 fans wearing bags on their heads and 40,000 wearing eagles jerseys.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 14, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Come on people, get on board. Fire Vinnie Cerrato tonight Mr Synder. Fire Vinnie Cerrato tonight.

Posted by: keith18 | December 14, 2008 9:46 PM |

This is what daggar was writing about when he said "There's a contingent of people up here who believe that Vinny will be fired if they just blog hard enough."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

This is what daggar was writing about when he said "There's a contingent of people up here who believe that Vinny will be fired if they just blog hard enough."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 9:49 PM

Daniel Snyder made his money in a marketing company that understood the power of the consumer. We are the consumers. Sign on and let your voice be heard. Fire Vinnie Cerrato tonight Mr Synder. Fire Vinnie Cerrato.

Posted by: keith18 | December 14, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Portis, Moss and other players are the problem.

Celebrating when you are losing!??!!??
I am so sick of Moss doing that.

Look at all the really good teams:
None have an owner where the star running back says " Mr. Syder loves me and I love Mr. Snyder". That says it all right there.

NOBODY ELSE WANTS THIS JOB BECAUSE OF SNYDER let's the players dictate or himself, how to coach.
COWHER aint comin. Noone with a brain is. They are going to throw Zorn under the bus, fire him and try and get some college guy who will do as he's told, and we will suck year after year.
WHat we need is an owner to get out of the way, and let the coach coach.
Portis should have been benched for what he said. Moss should have been yanked from the game for that silly shoe shine bit.
The whole problem is that many of the players like Moss and Portis simply dont care. Their soft. It's all about money.
And, who can blame them when the owner is the same way??

I feel sorry for Zorn.

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 14, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

is anybody here actually going to watch the eagles/redskins game next sunday??

Posted by: rachel216 | December 14, 2008 9:39 PM |

Of course. I watch every Redskins game. Do you only want to watch when they win? There's a name for someone like that.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

I'm not a good human to be around after a tough Skins loss. I've destroyed tv's, computers, furniture, broken up with girlfriends, had run-ins with the law...Today was pretty sedated, like assisted suicide..

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 9:56 PM | Report abuse

"Bring out your dead"

Posted by: lurgee5177 | December 14, 2008 9:58 PM | Report abuse

That's funny man. They should organize bag day for next Sunday against the eagles. 50,000 fans wearing bags on their heads and 40,000 wearing eagles jerseys.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 14, 2008 9:47 PM |

That would be great. It sure would send the message. You've got a week to spread the word.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2008 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Portis is many things. "Soft" ain't one of 'em.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 9:58 PM | Report abuse

There's a name for someone like that.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

I'm not a good human to be around after a tough Skins loss. I've destroyed tv's, computers, furniture, broken up with girlfriends, had run-ins with the law...Today was pretty sedated, like assisted suicide..

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 9:56 PM

There's a name for that, too. "True fan." I'll bet all the girlfriends were phoning you after a few days and begging you to take them back.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Not sure 40K Eagles fans will be in FedEx next week.

If they lose Monday night to Cleveland, their season will be as dead as ours.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

COWHER aint comin. Noone with a brain is.

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 14, 2008 9:55 PM

Looks like jrak1 will be coaching the Skins next year...

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 14, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Portis is now the most overrated player in the league. We should be investing in rushing options instead of predicating the whole offense on him.

Posted by: slowdive | December 14, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Portis is now the most overrated player in the league. We should be investing in rushing options instead of predicating the whole offense on him.

Posted by: slowdive | December 14, 2008 10:03 PM

No, we should be investing in people that can consistently block, period.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2008 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Portis is not overrated. He might be spoiled and in need of some discipline, but he ain't overrated...Also, I sometimes gotta dis the Skins hard to help shake the habit and get back to Earth..

Posted by: frak | December 14, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Let's say The Danny fires Vinny. Then what? Didn't people b*tch just as much the year Vinny wasn't around?

Which GM would satisfy them?

I get the feeling some people on here would have had a problem with Beathard after losses, if the Internet(s) were in existence back then.

As for the statement "who would come here (to coach)?" I always laugh when I see that.

Washington is an NFL team with an owner willing to pay top dollar. It's not a Division-II school.

For the right price, you can get anyone to sign.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Not sure 40K Eagles fans will be in FedEx next week.

If they lose Monday night to Cleveland, their season will be as dead as ours.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 10:02 PM

If they lose to Cleveland their season should be as dead as ours.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2008 10:10 PM | Report abuse

There is a continuous thread to this team's dysfunction and it leads back to the front office. Coaches come and go - Turner, Marty, the Ol' ball coach, Gibbs, Zorn. QB's and superstars come and go. The team under achieves with over rated athletes who stink the place up, and lacks depth to compensate for injuries. That, my friends, is a front office problem.

So dump Soup and tar & feather Zorn. So what? Until Vinny is gone and Snyder learns how to let good men do their job, nothing will change but the names...again.

Think about it.

Posted by: edvar | December 14, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Also, why must he continue to take the ball on the toss instead of defer? We have had the worst opening drives I can remember in a long tie......

Posted by: 4thFloor

I sooo agree with you on this! I've noticed many teams have defered this season and have won their games. Gives them an edge to have the ball in the second half. Also, I remember a interview with London Fletcher last season and he said he strongly prefers our D to be on the field at the beginning of the game.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

The Cincinnati backup quarterback matched Campbell's stats, basically. Our starter, heralded by many to be one of great promise, has showed us again that reality bites.

Posted by: Almazar80 | December 14, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

As for the statement "who would come here (to coach)?" I always laugh when I see that.

Washington is an NFL team with an owner willing to pay top dollar. It's not a Division-II school.

For the right price, you can get anyone to sign.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 10:09 PM |

Especially when there are only 32 like jobs in the world and most are consistently locked up. Maybe 5 available in any given year.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2008 10:13 PM | Report abuse

That easy to get a coach, eh?

Then how come Spagnolu of the Giants said no? Why did Fassell say no? Why did Cowher say no?

Cowher says he was contacted. Skins say no.
Who would you trust?

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 14, 2008 10:14 PM | Report abuse

+++What's going on with the blog? Last week it was really ugly after the loss to Baltimore. This week we lost to Cincy and it's pretty mellow up here. No one's called anyone an idiot (except for Vinny, Dan, and Zorn...

Posted by: talent_evaluator ++++

Simple. No one's defending Snyder Vinny and Zorn, so they don't get called idiots, and no one's attacking people who call Vinny, Dan an Zorn idiots, because they're right.

Posted by: TheCork | December 14, 2008 10:15 PM | Report abuse

*** Let me break for this football prayer***


Please , oh Gods of Football, please let NY come back and dust off the Cowboys. Please Please PLease.....Please Please Please...I am sure I angered you in some way. ( See today's Skins game) Please accept my apology and GET THE GIANTS GOING !!!

***Thank you***

Posted by: cej75024 | December 14, 2008 10:16 PM | Report abuse

I sooo agree with you on this! I've noticed many teams have defered this season and have won their games. Gives them an edge to have the ball in the second half. Also, I remember a interview with London Fletcher last season and he said he strongly prefers our D to be on the field at the beginning of the game.


Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 10:12 PM

I believe that starting the D on the field first gives the offensive players a little time to get the anxiety down. Quarterbacks tend to throw a little high when too excited or anxious. Ever noticed how JC seems to be a poor passer early in games but gets better as he settles down? Just a thought, I could be wrong.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2008 10:17 PM | Report abuse

As a Skins fan of over 35 years, I say it is time to move on from this season and look towards next year.

In the meantime, I welcome all Skins fans into the world of a winning team.

Let's go Caps!

Posted by: CTCapsPhan | December 14, 2008 10:21 PM | Report abuse

+++It's ZORN who hangs out and ride bikes with W.

Posted by: MrRedskin21

who cares? who do you ride bikes with? get a life.

Posted by: lsskinsfan+++

Could be a coincidence, but neither one of them has ever admitted making a mistake, nor taken responsibility for their shortcomings.

Posted by: TheCork | December 14, 2008 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Reading through some of these comments, I have seen some of the most insightful opinions I've ever seen.

The inmates run the asylum.

Jim Zorn is 1-5 in the last 6 weeks because six days ago CP expressed his displeasure with his head coach, and Dan Snyder didn't reprimand him. Yep, that's why we lost 5 games in 6 weeks.

Get rid of Clinton Portis. Bench Santana Moss. Let Jim Zorn run his offense without those guys. Guaranteed Super Bowl title next season if those two things happen. How can Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato not see this crystal clear, obvious solution??

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:22 PM | Report abuse

If people actually WANT to coach the Raiders, than people will come here.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 14, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Could be a coincidence, but neither one of them has ever admitted making a mistake, nor taken responsibility for their shortcomings.

Posted by: TheCork | December 14, 2008 10:22 PM

Doesn't that put you in the same elite clique? When have you ever admitted a mistake or taken responsibility for your shortcomings?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 14, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

Spizzle, I agree with you on this. Part of being a fan is the right to be overemotional. However, if folks think that we have a better chance of winning with a Brennan, Betts, Thomas, Kelly , Davis lineup...they are foolish.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 14, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

To make matters worse, the Cowboys are gonna win this flippin' game today.

The Giants do not look the same with Plaxico and Jacobs. Eli needs to bring out his 4th quarter magic.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Compare the Patriots, the Steelers and the Giants with what Snyder and Cerrato are doing.

Tomlin called out a player for saying far less than Portis.
Giants sat and suspended Plaxico.
Belichek doesnt allow players or coaches to run and speak the media much.

It's called "giving your head coach authority to run the team".


Sorry that seems hard for many of you to grasp. I'd rather emulate teams that are actually winning, since it's a proven formula, over and over again.

Look at Miami now that Parcells is there.

Discipline matters, authority matters, consistency from the top down matters.

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 14, 2008 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Get rid of Clinton Portis. Bench Santana Moss. Let Jim Zorn run his offense without those guys. Guaranteed Super Bowl title next season if those two things happen. How can Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato not see this crystal clear, obvious solution??

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Ain't that the truth. There's far bigger problems than what CP said or what Moss did in the endzone. To focus in on those two things is a waste of time. IF it wasn't for CP and Moss, this offense wouldn't even average 7 pts a game.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 10:32 PM | Report abuse

The Cincinnati backup quarterback matched Campbell's stats, basically. Our starter, heralded by many to be one of great promise, has showed us again that reality bites.

Posted by: Almazar80

It wasn't Jason Campbell that fumbled the ball on the goal line after driving the length of the field for the tying touchdown (on two attempts at the goal line, no less). And it wasn't Jason Campbell that called a jumbo package RB sweep on the 17 yard line with just over 2 minutes to go in a 2 score game. Nor was it Jason Campbell that dropped a RB screen on 3rd & 10 on the 17 yard line, with just under 2 minutes to go in a 2 score game.

You want to put the blame on JC for a game that he throws 2 INTs and we lose? Fine. This is not the game to do that, though. He did what he could do within the "scheme".

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

The team has a lot of problems. Outside the division the team beat the Lions, Seattle, New Orleans, Cleveland and Arizona. None of those teams are any good so I don't know why anyone expected anything different. Teams have enough tape on Zorn now to know whats coming.

What is coming, is an O-line that is banged up and not very good to begin with. A QB that has always had trouble reading defenses and is not an NFL starting QB. Now that they are out of the playoffs, I'd play Brennan for 2 games and see what he can do. For those that say he was a 6th rounder, shut up. You don't know football if you are using that as a rationale. What round was Chris Horton??? Might as well know what you have and avoid giving Campbell a contract that kills the franchise for years to come.

Defensively, they have one LB in Fletcher. A defensive line that can't pass rush, and DB's that cant cover double moves. Even at 6-2 I didn't understand the excitement, it was obvious that this was possible.

They need to use next year's draft to draft an O-line. As much as I love CP, I would buy his contract out and use that money on linemen. RB's can be found anywhere in this league, a good line can't be.

I voted for Jason Campbell. He is never going to get it done here or anywhere in the NFL. So in theory you can lay the blame on management for thinking he can.

Posted by: ThePat | December 14, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

And I find it funny that the Falcons drafted a solid OT (Baker) in the 1st round that was originally the Skins pick in which they "masterfully" traded down to get the 3 amigos.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

I'd play Brennan for 2 games and see what he can do***As much as I love CP, I would buy his contract out and use that money on linemen. RB's can be found anywhere in this league, a good line can't be. ***

Posted by: ThePat | December 14, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse


So, using that logic....you can tell about Brennan in 2 games ?? 2 whole games will give you all the info you need to dump Jason in favor of Colt.

And buy out CP??? WTF? Running backs are a dime a dozen, but ProBowl...1400+ ones are not. And to suggest BUY HIM out is ludacris.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 14, 2008 10:38 PM | Report abuse

"It's called "giving your head coach authority to run the team".

Posted by: kreator6996"

Funny how Joe Gibbs never had this problem. You're acting like there is an inability amongst these players to respect authority.

Something tells me that the lack of trust or togetherness is a reflection more on the head coach, not the players.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:40 PM | Report abuse

And I find it funny that the Falcons drafted a solid OT (Baker) in the 1st round that was originally the Skins pick in which they "masterfully" traded down to get the 3 amigos.

Posted by: ga8085

You've got your facts slightly skewed. We didn't actually get all 3 second rounders from Atlanta. Malcolm Kelly was our original 2nd round pick. Who we actually got was Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, and Justin Tryon. There, doesn't that make you feel better?

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Zorn knows what the heck he's doing.

Starting off by making quips about players in training camp was not the right move. Maybe that endears him to reporters, but not players.

The object is to motivate players, not alienate them.

And if he has a beef with anyone on the roster, he should deal with it in his office.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

C'mon Romo! Give TO 2 more receiving yards! I'm currently tied with Zeb in our playoff game!!

Posted by: kost52 | December 14, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Um...Gibbs had this problem.

Moss and Portis didnt play hard at all last year until Taylor died.
Moss has celebrated dumbly many times before.
The same linemen made the same penalties.

What we are seeing has been exactly the same, EXCEPT the coach. It's the players.

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 14, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

"Ok. Wow. Lets all calm down a bit. This team was picked to be last place in the division and they are who we thought they are. We didn't improve the trenches during the offseason and this is what we are stuck with. We should lose Springs, Washington, Griffin, Jansen and Rabach. Build our lines through the draft and make a run at a Suggs or Haynesworth type player. This isn't going to be fixed overnight so we have to be patient. This team is old and we need to build the right way. As far as Zorn, he is a first year head coach. Snyder should honor his contract and give him his due. Tearing up the entire coaching staff would show the fans that Snyder has no business in putting together a winning team because he lacks the patience and intelligencet to see a system put in place."

------------------------------------------

Sadly, Snyder has already shown the fans he lacks the patience and intelligence to put a championshipt team in place. He was supposedly a huge fan of Gibbs I, but the heart and soul of those teams was the Hogs - fabulous offensive linemen in the prime of their careers. When someone got old, there was a 25 year old that had been groomed ready to step in.

Where is the 2000 version of the Hogs? Where is the 2000 version of Manley and Mann, draftees who could rush the passer?
It is astounding to me that someone who can't grasp something so fundamental can wind up as a billionare.

Posted by: HighPlainsDrifter | December 14, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

"That easy to get a coach, eh?

Then how come Spagnolu of the Giants said no? Why did Fassell say no? Why did Cowher say no?

Cowher says he was contacted. Skins say no.
Who would you trust?

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 14, 2008 10:14 PM | Report abuse "

According to reporters, those guys turned down the job after finding out that they could not pick their assistants or have control over the team.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

According to reporters, those guys turned down the job after finding out that they could not pick their assistants or have control over the team.

Posted by: DC_MAN88 | December 14, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse
***************************************
Exactly my point.

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 14, 2008 10:47 PM | Report abuse

You've got your facts slightly skewed. We didn't actually get all 3 second rounders from Atlanta. Malcolm Kelly was our original 2nd round pick. Who we actually got was Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, and Justin Tryon. There, doesn't that make you feel better?

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

You get the gist of it...And being an ATL native, I can certainly tell you that alot of these players who looked like crap under Patrino and Mora Jr look like superstars this year. I wonder if coaching has anything to do with that?

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

If a private sector company has a prima donna salesperson, they do the same thing as the Redskins and coddle the person. What the Skins don't understand is that the prima donna's can always be replaced. If we can replace the President of the United States roughly each 4 years, we can replace Portis, Moss, et al. I'm not saying that we need to replace them, I'm saying we can replace them...tomorrow if necessary. It's not difficult to replace guys who haven't helped us win playoff games in years. Get er done Synder!

Posted by: keith18 | December 14, 2008 10:51 PM | Report abuse

What we are seeing has been exactly the same, EXCEPT the coach. It's the players.

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 14, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Totally disagree. Moss's main problem is he's injury prone and to say that both players didn't play hard last year is ridiculous. Point to Brandon Lloyd not playing hard to state your case not those 2 players. Those players, along with Cooley, are the only players opposing defenses worry about.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 14, 2008 10:52 PM | Report abuse

In no way, shape, or form did Gibbs ever have the problems that Zorn has. Gibbs had problems with clock management, stupid in-game decisions (like back-to-back timeouts), and an outdated offensive scheme.

What he NEVER had was insubordination from his star players. And he NEVER had a team that gave up or came to a game with less energy than the other team. Gibbs had one of the tightest locker rooms in the league, and every player to the man (with the exception of maybe Brandon Lloyd) trusted Gibbs 100% to get what needed to be done.

You can knock Gibbs 2.0 for a lot of things, but what can never be questioned were the intangibles that he brought to this team.

Sorry, but Zorn doesn't have that.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:53 PM | Report abuse

What we are seeing has been exactly the same, EXCEPT the coach. It's the players.

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 14, 2008 10:44 PM |
-----------------------

Under Gibbs 2.0, the Skins record in regular season for December/January:

2004: 3-2
2005: 5-0
2006: 1-4*
2007: 4-1

*and they were in three of those four losses, losing 21-19 to Philly, 37-31 to the Rams and 34-28 to the Giants.

Admit it. Today, no one felt they were in it, not once they fell behind (for the second straight week) 14-0 in the 1st quarter.
This team, in Zorn's offense, isn't capable of putting up more than about 10 points in any given week now that opposing defenses are stacking the box to stop Portis.

It's a mess.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 10:54 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn likes making the media happy rather than his players....

Honesty can be good but should also be kept in house when it comes down to repeatedly criticizing your players in the media. Hard to believe the Danny or Cerrato has not taken him aside and instructed himt to keep his mouth shut.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 14, 2008 10:55 PM | Report abuse

And being an ATL native, I can certainly tell you that alot of these players who looked like crap under Patrino and Mora Jr look like superstars this year. I wonder if coaching has anything to do with that?

Posted by: ga8085

Precisely the point I've been trying to make for a few weeks. Thank you for putting it so soundly.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse

"According to reporters, those guys turned down the job after finding out that they could not pick their assistants or have control over the team.

Posted by: DC_MAN88"

Hopefully, Snyder will have learned from his mistakes. (Who am I kidding...)

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse

LOL.. Romo sacked for a safety

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

G-Men need to wake up and come back in this game.

They don't have home field wrapped up or anything, and they play Carolina next week.

Also, I'll sleep better knowing the Cowgirls are as messed up as we are.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Get rid of Clinton Portis. Bench Santana Moss. Let Jim Zorn run his offense without those guys. Guaranteed Super Bowl title next season if those two things happen. How can Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato not see this crystal clear, obvious solution??

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Ain't that the truth. There's far bigger problems than what CP said or what Moss did in the endzone. To focus in on those two things is a waste of time. IF it wasn't for CP and Moss, this offense wouldn't even average 7 pts a game.

Posted by: ga8085 |


And yet that is now the core of the problem for the Redskins as a team. Portis gets away with murder and Moss now wants some of that slop too. Who is next?

So, you are the coach, and you now have your two stars, the guys who are loved by the owner, openly defying you. Not a problem you say? So you don't think that players have taken sides on this team for and against what Portis has done this week and the "it's ok because Danny loves me" attitude he exhibits? Suppose you are a hard working, play every game, practice every play type of player, a London Fletcher type, what do YOU think about this? You just saw the coaching staff humiliated this week once on a radio show and the non apology, and then by a showboating Moss. How do you feel on the inside when you know how the team is suppose to come together to win these crucial games? You see the heart leave this team, you see the passion dribble away and you know that this team is never going to come together now.

Posted by: driley | December 14, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm saying we can replace them...tomorrow if necessary. It's not difficult to replace guys who haven't helped us win playoff games in years. Get er done Synder!

Posted by: keith18 | December 14, 2008 10:51 PM |

Couldn't agree more. I'm getting a little tired of the fear people seem to have of what the offense would be like without CP, Moss, etc. I'm not saying we should dump everyone, but they're all replaceable.

The fear of letting even one of these guys go says a lot more about the lack of depth or confidence we have in anyone else - ultimately it's a commentary on the FO.

As depressed as I am about today's loss and the season in general, I'm glad to see the blogging keeps coming back to where it belongs in my opinion: The Front Office. Snyder isn't going anywhere, but if he's really the fan he says he is and wants the team to win he has to admit that his way isn't working, at all.

The fact Snyder seems unlikely to change his ways and ONLY wants to win if he and/or his low IQ puppet has a major hand in it speaks to his self esteem, ego, and the fact that he is not truly a fan, but a prima donna much worse than CP.

Posted by: snoopylad | December 14, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse

It's 14-8 Boys.

If you're J. Garrett, do you call a pass play for Romo on this drive?

It could be the Steelers game all over again.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Keith and Edvar have the right idea.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 14, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

"So, you are the coach, and you now have your two stars, the guys who are loved by the owner, openly defying you. Not a problem you say?

Posted by: driley"

This is where your post, while well thought up, is flawed.

There IS a problem, but it's not what you think. The actual problem is the underlying factor that caused the outburst in the first place. The plain and simple fact that the players themselves do not trust this scheme, this system, and this head coach. That's where the problem is.

As I said before, you would never see this under Gibbs, because the players trusted Gibbs. And you would never see it under a guy like Bill Cowher either. Jeff Fisher, Jon Gruden, Mike Shanahan, all these guys have their player's undying faith.

Unproven guys like Jim Zorn have to EARN that. It is not a right, it is not given out freely. They had given Zorn a decent leash during this streak. It took 4 losses in 5 weeks during a hopeful run to the playoffs to bring this out.

While it's true that you don't want your players to do this, the fact that they feel the NEED to do it displays the obvious shortcomings of the coach himself. And if it comes down to Portis/Moss or Jim Zorn, I'm keeping Portis and Moss in a heartbeat.

Posted by: spizzle | December 14, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse

I lead Zebra by 1 point, I've got TO, he's got Giants Defense.

Posted by: kost52 | December 14, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse

...and that should seal it for me!

Posted by: kost52 | December 14, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

i didn't watch this game today, and very glad i didn't. this organization lost it's heart when Sean passed and when Coach Gibbs left, they can't play for anything right now...no heart at all. just go home and get ready for another long offseason.

at least we won't get our hearts broken by losing in the first round of the playoffs.

Posted by: kenneth920 | December 14, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abuse

A Head Coach has a much more difficult job than simply minding the X's and O's. I believe Zorn still has much to learn about leading an entire football team, but this CAN be learned (sometimes at great cost). If the FO does not allow Zorn to grow into this position, then they're even dumber than we think.

As for Santana Moss; he's never been a knucklehead before now, but he made a conscious decision today that he should be known to us as a knucklehead. I don't care if the Head Coach is Gibbs, Shanahan, Belichick, Dungy, Cowher, Fisher, Gruden, etc....ANY of those coaches would have verbally undressed Santana Moss after that penalty. Zorn took this far too lightly, but again, he will learn.

Posted by: Grover_Cleveland_80 | December 14, 2008 11:30 PM | Report abuse

i would like to reorder etrod's order of F'ing.

F vinny, danny, zorn! that's all that's left. no scouting. no draft watching. nothing. no stats. no draft order.

just F vinny, danny, zorn!

if you're still hanging on to those other things then you're either too young, too stupid, or don't know the meaning of loyalty. wake up!!! i'm done with this team until atleast 2 of those three people are gone!!!! last year i said it'll take 3 years but i came back cuz c'mon it's the skins. not again. i'm done wasting my sundays on this crap!!! F the dannySkins!!!

TO just called ed werder "unprofessional". LOL!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 11:36 PM | Report abuse

***i didn't watch this game today, and very glad i didn't. this organization lost it's heart when Sean passed and when Coach Gibbs left, they can't play for anything right now...no heart at all. just go home and get ready for another long offseason.

at least we won't get our hearts broken by losing in the first round of the playoffs.

Posted by: kenneth920 | December 14, 2008 11:24 PM | Report abu***


Seems like a load to me....so you have to have a player die before you can play with heart?? And to say, well at least we won't get our heart broken is a loser mentality. Of course, you want to win ...if you get your a** handed to you in the playoffs.... SO WHAT! At least you played hard all year.

With your thinking, we should not try anymore , because we aren't going to win any playoff games.

Posted by: cej75024 | December 14, 2008 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Remember the past 4 years during Coach Joe's 2nd term how we all bemoaned the stupid mistakes that constantly killed drives, killed momentum, etc. Many of us said it was a sign that Joe had lost it. Well, now it looks like maybe not. In case you haven't noticed, those killer mistakes are still happening! Maybe this group of players just isn't too bright. Think about it. Whenever there's a critical time or point in the game, it's just amazing how often somebody screws up. Illegal procedure, illegal formation, holding, block in the back, pass underthrown, pass dropped, you name it, they do it. Five years of this ineptitude can't be a coincidence.

Quick review of team by positions:

Jason Campbell - Everday intelligence just fine but doesn't have an NFL brain and will never be a top notch NFL QB - too indecisive and not a on-field leader.

O-Line: Most important part of team to rebuild if you want a winner.

D-Line: 2nd most important part to rebuild; besides pass rushers also need massive run-stopping D-tackle or 2.

Linebackers: Better start looking for help now. M. Washington is done, and London, great as he has played, will be getting old soon. Blades an acceptable back up, but not an NFL starter.

DB's: One area of team that probably doesn't need any help; keep coaching up young guys like Horton, Landry and Rodgers.

Receivers/Tight Ends: Z-man, please don't try to tell us that all THREE of those new guys are dumb and can't learn the offense. Maybe there's something wrong with the system or maybe the TEACHERS.

Running Backs: Like it or not, CP might be in the same category as London Fletcher, or close to it. Man has been great but has taken a terrible pounding. Need a young prospect here, but o-line is more important.

Kickers: Patience or house cleaning? Don't know, maybe these young guys are worth sticking with to see if they can learn and grow.

Posted by: clfrdj | December 14, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

or you don't have a life...and hate yourself for some reason...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse

I didn't see any of the game today, what did Moss do?

Posted by: kost52 | December 14, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse

After a critical drive, Moss decided that it would be a good idea to shine his shoes in the endzone and penalize the team 15 yards on the next kickoff. He looked very proud of himself on the sidelines after the flag was thrown for Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

Posted by: Grover_Cleveland_80 | December 14, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Grover,

so we're stuck with a Singletary/Davis type situation then? I'm guessing Zorn did nothing during the game? Bet he would've if it was Devin Thomas who did it.

Posted by: kost52 | December 14, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse

spizzle,

You are right as well. Zorn has no offensive scheme that I can see. There is nothing that stands out that has his stamp or signature on mark on it that says "hey that's different, that works, hmmmm." When Zorn was hired he brought no playbook with him. He had never even been a coordinator. There was no playbook during the mini camps after the draft for the players to study. Of course the players know that they are dealing with a first year head coach who has no experience even close to this level. This team is unprepared in so many ways.

This loss today stripped away the veils around this team. Yes the coaching is bad, but something very rotten was on display today as well. This team has no heart. There are definitely divisions shattering the morale of this team, whether these divisions split around the special treatment of Portis, the playcalling of Zorn, the personell moves or other issues that can only be guessed at. I really do not understand the NEED to go and blow up your coach on the radio or to blantantly plan an act that costs your team to kick off from the twenty yard line. This is where Danny has to make the gutsy call because in the end the players are giving him a signal as well. They are telling him that some of them don't care about what they say or do on this team because in the end they have nothing to fear.

Posted by: driley | December 14, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse

With the return of Shawn Springs to the lineup, fellow cornerback Fred Smoot was dropped to fourth in the rotation and rarely was on the field. Smoot said he and Carlos Rogers, whose playing time also was reduced, weren't surprised by their lack of playing time.

"Me and 'Los already knew we weren't gonna get as many snaps," Smoot said. "Why? We don't know. Nobody talks to us."
---------------------------------------

Not good.

I can sense Zorn losing the locker room.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse

You are probably right, Kost. Perhaps that is part of the problem. I don't know much about Devin Thomas, but I would bet that he (and most football players) would have had the good sense to understand the game situation and not get the team penalized 15 yards on kickoff while trailing by 10 points.

Posted by: Grover_Cleveland_80 | December 14, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse

You want to put the blame on JC for a game that he throws 2 INTs and we lose? Fine. This is not the game to do that, though. He did what he could do within the "scheme".

Posted by: spizzle

The guy still has a losing record as a starter. Still takes too long to make decisions and throwing motion has not really improved. Not a grade A starter, or may not even be B grade. JC won't lead this team anywhere, even with good play calling and decent line play.

Posted by: Almazar80 | December 14, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse

While it's true that you don't want your players to do this, the fact that they feel the NEED to do it displays the obvious shortcomings of the coach himself. And if it comes down to Portis/Moss or Jim Zorn, I'm keeping Portis and Moss in a heartbeat.

Posted by: spizzle

You give Campbell all the benefit of the doubt and and give a rookie coach no room for improvement. A team with obvious flaws and not enough playmakers will make many coaches look bad. This is a BAD team, lead by a not terribly good quarterback (not awful, just not terribly good).

Posted by: Almazar80 | December 15, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

MANAGEMENT CHOSE TO EXPERIMENT WITH A QUARTERBACK COACH WHO TURNED OUT TO BE TOO UNSELFISH TO ADMIT HIS MISTAKES WHILE LEARNING [OJT] HOW COACHES ARE EXPECTED TO REACT.TODAY THE TEAM QUIT ON THE COACH AND THE DAMAGE IS NOT REPARABLE. ALTHO I HAVE LEARNED THST D S HAS NO RESPECT FOR HIS FANS I SUGGEST HE CHANGE COACHES IMMEDIATELY. ZORN IS LIKE A CANCER WHOSE DAMAGE MAY NOT BE CURABLE. I AM A LONG TERM SEASON TICKET HOLDER AND I HAVE SEEN US LOOSE MANY GAMES BUT I CAN NOT REMEMBER OUR LOOSING IN SUCH A CLASSLESS MANNER. WE HAVE NO PRIDE LEFT.

Posted by: kcandlc | December 15, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Almazar, you're a complete idiot. With decent line play in the first half of the season we were able to complete two extremely difficult road wins, and our offense wasn't horrific, if anything it was better than decent. If that isn't success in terms of leading the team to wins, I don't know what is.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | December 15, 2008 12:08 AM | Report abuse

"Me and 'Los already knew we weren't gonna get as many snaps," Smoot said. "Why? We don't know. Nobody talks to us."
---------------------------------------

Not good.

I can sense Zorn losing the locker room.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2008 11:51 PM

What do you mean 'we don't know?' Nobody should need to talk to you. It should be obvious that one of you gets beat repeatedly and gives 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 2 and the other still bites on double moves to give up TD's and can't catch crabs in a brothel.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 15, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

As for the Smoot comment, Blache runs the defense and decides who plays. After watching Smoot get badly beaten on two third down plays on the last drive and Rogers getting beat on a TD maybe he now knows why.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 15, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

So Blache runs the defense. So what?

That doesn't explain the lack of communication.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 15, 2008 12:16 AM | Report abuse

Well if they knew they weren't going to get as many snaps I gotta wonder if they're psychic if no one tells them anything. Or maybe they figured out on their own that they've played poorly for a few games and Hall has played pretty damn good. For me, Springs or Smoot is gone next year.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 15, 2008 12:22 AM | Report abuse

everyone ripping moss and clinton portis just stop.
it is a team problem...i agree..cp should shut his mouth and try to be a team player.
that said...moss and cp have been the core of this team and we'd be much worse w/out them...this is what kills me about this team...you get a few guys..portis/moss/cooley...who play their hearts out for the first 2-3 yrs and really want to be redskins (stephen davis/antonio pierce) and mgmt doesn't respect them w/ good enough compliments or respect for that matter, so they shoulder everything from there on
i would probably lash out too..you just get sick of it
you love danny's plane and steak dinners...you actually believe you want to be a redskin and blead the colors...then you realize, im never going to the superbowl
DANNY SNYDER HAS TO CHANGE OR GET OUT...PEOPLE WILL FORGIVE HIM OVER TIME IF HE JUST STOPS THE INSANITY...if we aren't superbowl team, but have respect, i would be happy w/ that....we are an embarrasment right now
i mean come on...when zorn started winning we believed maybe danny pulled it off
i was impressed..and really impressed that zorn could step up from qb coach to full blown coach/offense coord/qb coach..lets give him a little credit
but i am now reminded that in the beginning..danny/vinny hired most of the coaches before hiring head coach...i just don't see how that ever works in any organization
we need change at the top (front office)
LETS VOICE OUR CONCERN W/ ACTION....BOYCOTT REDKSIN SALES...I LIKE THE BLOGS IVE READ ABOUT US AS THE CONSUMER.....WE LOVE THE TEAM..COME ON..JUST GIVE US WHAT ITS WORTH..EVEN IF IT TAKES 5 YRS...WE NEED SOMETHING TO HOPE FOR...LET SNYDER HEAR OUR VOICE

Posted by: jj44skins | December 15, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

I guess that depends on what you mean by communication. Since they apparently knew they were not going to get as many snaps someone must have told them something. Maybe Smoot just didn't hear what he wanted to hear or maybe the coaches are suppose to kiss the players a$$s and ask their permission before they make any moves. My guess was that Blache thought Hall (who actually makes ints) and Springs was the better combination but what do I know I wasn't there. But obviously this team is totally disfunctional regardless of who is at fault.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 15, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse

It starts at the top....

Posted by: Grover_Cleveland_80 | December 15, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

Trade Value, Trade Value? They have a lot starting with CP.

ARE, Moss, Samuels, Kendall, Washington, Jansen ...
==
I don't think anyone outside of Redskins Park thinks these guys are worth trading for. Portis has the raw talent, but with the mileage on him and the beating he's taken this year I wouldn't pick him for my 2009 fantasy team much less take on his contract on a real football team. Teams will just wait for the Redskins to cut Portis, and then sign him at a discount. CP is entering the "fading RB who's not as good as he thinks he is" portion of his career. Ask Arizona how that's working out with Edge.

As for everyone else on the list, IMO all of those guys are on the downside of their careers. But even if you think they have untapped talent, here are their years of service in the NFL: ARE (7), Moss (8), Samuels (9), Kendall (13!), Washington (9), Jansen (10).

Smart teams don't trade for old players. They wait for them to be cut and then sign them to low-risk, short-term deals.

Posted by: hubcap | December 15, 2008 12:47 AM | Report abuse

It has nothing to do with kissing the players a$$.

All these guys - players and coaches alike - work in and around the same building in Ashburn all week long.

So there's no excuse for not explaining things to people, player to coach or coach to player.

However, I have (and bet we all have at one point or another) worked at companies where communication was lousy, and nothing good ever comes of such situations.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 15, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse

Well what can I say except this team is awful. How do you lose to the Bengals with the season on the line? This team has so many holes and is years from being a true contender. The offensive line needs major help and so does the defensive line. Jason Cambell is an average quarterback at best. If you don't agree with me look at the numbers. You are judged as a quarterback in wins and losses and, he doesn't have a whole lot of wins. I do not think they should fire Jim Zorn after one season. I say give him one more crack at it then if he is not getting it done you let him go back to Seattle. I tell you who should be fired Vinny Cerrato. How many more bad decisions is this guy going to be allowed to make. He is awful hire a real GM if you want to win Danny!

Posted by: bigjofc | December 15, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse

I grant you that communications may be an issue and if so is definately a management problem. I guess I am just bitter because the players and coaches don't seem to care that they played like crap and just lost what little chance they had to stay in playoff contention. Way too much laughing and celebrating when you butt is being kicked by a supposedly inferior team. I am just as tired hearing Zorn say that if we had only made one or two more plays it would have been different as I am hearing players complain about playing time and communication. Zorn needs to put the team in a postion that it doesn't come down to one or two plays and the players need to make plays. If Smoot would have defended a pass or god forbide made and INT maybe he would play more.
Anyway I am off to bed. I am sure as a member of the kool aid brigade after a good night sleep to get over the bitterness I will start plotting how they can still make the playoffs at 9-7.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 15, 2008 12:57 AM | Report abuse

Too many problems with this team to describe here, but the top problem continues to be the front office and all the wasted draft picks and stupid trades since Snyder arrived.

The first quarter of today's Bengals game was beyond embarressing for the Redskins. The team had no heart, and the sidelines appeared dead and lost. Watching Zorn on the sidelines reminded me of Spurriers' final days as head coach, he was isolated on the sidelines, appeared listless and lost as he stared at his play card and talked into the headset. He is so absorbed in offensive play calling, the team lacks any inspiration on the sidelines from a head coach, and there is little evidence of any team leadership.

This 2008 team ranks as low as the Otto Graham years, and the rapid fall under Spurrier and Norv.

They will lose their last 2 games, and next week at home could get ugly cuz Philly will come into town and kick their butts.

Right now I would rank Washington as bad as Oakland. The common problem with Oakland and Washington are Al Davis and Dan Snyder, two owners with too much money, too large an ego, and no good coaches or assistants want to work for either owner.

If Zorn gets canned, who would want this job? LOL Nobody decent.

This team needs a complete cleaning of house. The QB, the OL, the DL, the primma donnna Univ of Miami alumni on the offense, the placekicker, it is very sad to watch any longer. But nothing will change for the better as long as Snyder runs the show here. I'm just glad I'm not one of the fools paying those ridiculous Redskin ticket and parking prices at Fedex field. I'm glad I got to attend home games back at RFK in the old days when this frachise had some pride.

Posted by: mikepem01 | December 15, 2008 1:39 AM | Report abuse

Ya'll aint watching the games then.
Moss dropped tons of balls last year, and his head wasn't in it.
Portis had as subpar year..they both played poorly the first half of last yeart until Sean died. Or, at best, they were average.

And, under Gibbs 2.0 one year, we were the most penalized team in the league.
The same dumb, heads' arent in it stuff has happened since Spurrier.
NOBODY IS ACCOUNTABLE.


They trusted his system?
They loved Joe Gibbs, the person and played hard for him, yes. But penalties, false starts, dumb decisions, fumbling at bad times, dropped passes....all of that happened under Gibbs, too.
And, he didnt sit anyone, either.
The atmosphere there is that the players do what they wish.
There isn't a good franchise in this leage with that sort of operation. Not the Steelers, the Pats, the Seahawks till this year, the Bucs even...
We are so much closer to the Lions or the Raiders. We're a joke.
They loved his system? Is that why they hired Saunders?
Is that why all the players were excited at the beginning of the year because Zorn was more up tempo and going to go for it more? This was in preseason.


Posted by: kreator6996 | December 15, 2008 1:47 AM | Report abuse

Almazar, you're a complete idiot. With decent line play in the first half of the season we were able to complete two extremely difficult road wins, and our offense wasn't horrific, if anything it was better than decent. If that isn't success in terms of leading the team to wins, I don't know what is.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren

Success is having a winning record as a starter. That definion of success seems to elude you, although name calling does not. If you believe that a journeyman backup like Fitzgerald played as well as Campbell (which he did, basically), then you can perhaps surmise that Campbell is playing at a level that befits a journeyman backup, not a starter. He was not under tremendous pressure all day, yet the results were no different than games that he was pressured. Mediocrity at it's best. It's time you recognized it. By the way, if you base your judgement only on the good things and not the bad, everything looks good. Even Campbell.

Posted by: Almazar80 | December 15, 2008 1:57 AM | Report abuse

Blah blah blah...i can sense the boobirds coming out.

But you know what......I predicted an 8-8 season with a new head coach, a new offensive system, and aging lines.

Anyone who thought we were destined for the Super Bowl was deluding themselves as not all of this team's problems can be fixed in a single draft.

Stay the course....stay firm and stay strong. Zorn has this team on the right path.....I just hope he gets the time to assemble a team that reflects his style rather than the holdovers from Gibbs 2.0.

Posted by: goosedude | December 15, 2008 2:22 AM | Report abuse

Goosedude,

Your right on target! This team was playing over it's head to start the season and now it's underachieving. Either way, drafting a lineman with every pick in the draft is mandatory along with perhaps a linebacker!

Posted by: rphilli721 | December 15, 2008 3:20 AM | Report abuse

Thank God we've already played the Lions.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 15, 2008 4:40 AM | Report abuse

I think I made my point early in the season. Do we want to waste yet another year on a mediocre quarterback and be a mediocre team, or do we want to invest the time on our QB of the future (Colt Brennan) and trade Jason Campbell while he still had some value.

Even when he was winning, I warned all of you that he was incapable of throwing 3 TDs in a game. I stated that if he could do that just one time this year, I might reconsider thinking he is a loser in the QB position.

I don't want to hear about his QB rating, or his rank. None of that means a thing. What metters is his field presence, leadership ability, and above all, the ability to throw multiple TD passes.

I am not blaming everything on Jason Campbell, but I do believe a QB of higher caliber would have lifted us over the Bengals and the Rams. If we have both of those games, we are sitting ahead of Dallas and Tampa Bay for that wild card spot.

Two games in this league can make or break you. Jason Campbell could not get us even two games against severely bad teams.

With these final two games of the season, we need to sit Jason Campbell and play Colt Brennan. Let us see how he can play against an Eagle team fighting for a wild card spot. Let's see how he can motivate the troops on a West Coast trip to San Fran with nothing on the line, except pride.

THE FUTURE IS NOW! THE JASON CAMPBELL EXPERIMENT IS OVER! TIME TO BEGIN THE ERA OF THE COLT!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | December 15, 2008 6:40 AM | Report abuse

The players quit.

Posted by: teden | December 15, 2008 6:41 AM | Report abuse

Sports Guru has been patiently waiting for this chance since week 2.

No, I don't think that Campbell is the problem. I don't know that he'll ever be an elite QB in this league and he's probably not going to win many games by himself. But given some stability and the right tools to work with, he could be a very good QB.

John Elway could artifically inseminate Tom Brady & Joe Montana's love child and THAT offspring would struggle behind that line and with those receivers.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 15, 2008 6:56 AM | Report abuse

Good.

The discussion today and last night is finally weaving in the owner and VP. Absolutely cannot leave them out.

Now we can have a realistic perspective on things.

Before it was all playground talk.

Posted by: dc4mckinney | December 15, 2008 7:01 AM | Report abuse

holy shti guys...people were throwing shoes at bush in iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!! check out the front page of wapo....

Posted by: dealer1 | December 14, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

The Iraqi press mistook the President for Jim Zorn.

Posted by: sleonardfine | December 15, 2008 7:25 AM | Report abuse

Success is having a winning record as a starter. That definion of success seems to elude you, although name calling does not. If you believe that a journeyman backup like Fitzgerald played as well as Campbell (which he did, basically), then you can perhaps surmise that Campbell is playing at a level that befits a journeyman backup, not a starter. He was not under tremendous pressure all day, yet the results were no different than games that he was pressured. Mediocrity at it's best. It's time you recognized it. By the way, if you base your judgement only on the good things and not the bad, everything looks good. Even Campbell.

Posted by: Almazar80 | December 15, 2008 1:57 AM

Yea, I'm sure 2 very costly turnovers (fumbles, not JC's fault) and the defenses inability to keep the Bengals from marching down the field had nothing to do with it.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 15, 2008 7:29 AM | Report abuse

sigh.....what disappoints me the most is the lack of change in the game plan. Thats the part I don't get, that I struggle with the most. ARE, Sellers, Portis, Betts, Thomas, had a combined 3 catches yesterday. THREE CATCHES????? No one other than Portis had more than 2 carries yesterday??? I don't get it. Is is Zorn, or is it Campbell?? Thats the part that I can't get my mind around.

A lot of the blame for this loss needs to go on the fumbles by Cooley, who fumbled a converted 3rd and long, and Sellers, who fumbled a possible game tying touchdown. Thats just unbelievable.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 8:06 AM | Report abuse

Fear not, The Truth is here with a Do-It-Yourself "Fix The Redskins" Home Kit.

1) Say bye to Springs and Jason Taylor next year. If I'm correct, which I usually am, we can let these guys go for nothing. Yes, I know Springs is very good when playing, but it's more about getting a new identity than keeping even the best players.

2) Sign one OL in free agency and one DL in free agency, but none of the "big names". Can't afford it. Just get some new people in. The team we have now is just declining and declining. We need fresh faces.

3) I guess you gotta keep Zorn for this year unless The Danny is gonna say "We're 100% starting from scratch", in which case you might wanna see who you could get.

4) New GM.

5) Take what you can get for Santana and Randle El. Santana is a proven WR, maybe try to squeeze a first round pick out of him? ARE, maybe a 3rd round pick or a 3rd and a 4th round pick in different years? Again, it's not about keeping the best players, its about getting fresh faces.

6) Portis, we're stuck with, like it or not. Same with Cooley, which I don't mind. But Portis we're stuck with for what, 2 more years after this one? He'll be a slight upgrade of the Tip Toe Burglar by then. There's just nothing we can do with that huge contract.

7) In the next two games, I think you start Todd Collins for one and Colt for the second. Is Jason Campbell our problem? I don't think so. BUT, and emphasis on the BUT - We talk about how we can't tell if it is Jason or not because he has a crappy OL, and that's true. But we can try to get some hints if we let JC rest and give a full game to TC against the Eagles and a full game to Colt against the 49ers. If one or both of these guys make us world beaters, then we can infer that it IS Jason Campbell who is a big factor. Again, I don't think he is and I think if we do this we'll see it's not, BUT it can only help us find that out and what do we have to lose? It'll at least shut up half the fans on here.

8) That's all I got for now.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 8:06 AM | Report abuse

He was not under tremendous pressure all day, yet the results were no different than games that he was pressured. Mediocrity at it's best. It's time you recognized it. By the way, if you base your judgement only on the good things and not the bad, everything looks good. Even Campbell.

Posted by: Almazar80 | December 15, 2008 1:57 AM

Yea, I'm sure 2 very costly turnovers (fumbles, not JC's fault) and the defenses inability to keep the Bengals from marching down the field had nothing to do with it.

Posted by: scampbell1975

The D was sorry today too, yes, but you are missing the point about JC. Take the blinders off, he isn't that good. No consistent pass rush and therefore he had ample time, and still looked like crap.

All those fire Zorn types need to get a clue too. Gibbs was too loyal and only when JC went down with injury, did the Ofeense start to work. I'm not saying T Collins is the answer, just saying he was the spark, not JC. Since Gibbs left, we now know he wasn't sold on JC as the answer either. I so hope JZ has the backing of the FO to go a few years and really clean house and build a team with his players. Wake up FO!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 15, 2008 8:11 AM | Report abuse

Truth, don't post crap like that please....

Especially when in your first point you're wrong. Releasing springs will result in a 2.5/2.6 million dollar cap hit.

ugh, on the start Collins/Brennan....just stupid...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 8:12 AM | Report abuse

I was watching the highlights of all the other games last night, and it almost made me sick to see every team throwing deep down the middle and deep down the sidelines.

We did not throw one ball down the field and we never throw a ball deep down the middle.

I do not know if JC is scared to throw deep for fear of throwing an Int., or if no one is open. He had plenty of time yesterday to throw.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 8:13 AM | Report abuse

"Truth, don't post crap like that please....

Especially when in your first point you're wrong. Releasing springs will result in a 2.5/2.6 million dollar cap hit.

ugh, on the start Collins/Brennan....just stupid...

Posted by: BeantownGreg "

why don't you re-read it. I don't think Campbell is the problem and I don't think Colt or TC would do any better. But what's the point? In the SLIGHT chance that one or both of them suddenly have us scoring 40+ points, then we could say "Well hell, maybe JC is the problem."

Personally, I think we'll see even worse results, but so what? Why bother trying to win these two games with JC? Just give the guy a rest, he's had a rough year physically. I'm not saying TC or Colt will be better, because I don't think they will, but why not take a shot?


and with the Springs thing, that's why I started by saying "If I'm right". Stop the blind hate dude.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 8:17 AM | Report abuse

Another point a receiver does not need to be open by 10 yards to get the ball, you have to throw it and let the receiver make a play. This is the NFL your receivers are not normally going to be wide open.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Flound, agreed, JC has time to throw yesterday, no excuses. I think, and take it for what its worth, which is not much, but I think zorn is trying for everyone to be perfect, zorn wants the WR to run perfect routes, he wants JC to throw perfect passes, and has them thinking WAY, WAY too much. JC is thinking too much, which is preventing him from playing well.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 8:20 AM | Report abuse

"This 2008 team ranks as low as the Otto Graham years, and the rapid fall under Spurrier and Norv"

Ahhh, those were the glory days of Sonny Jurgensen. The games were often filled with touchdown pass after touchdown pass, 400 yard passing days. Unfortunately, the other team filled the endzone with their touchdowns as well, but at least the games were exciting until the last second.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

Until the Skins get a REAL GM and a REAL front office, this is the team you get.

Good luch with that.

Posted by: Ireland2 | December 15, 2008 8:23 AM | Report abuse

I don't get the blame JC people. JC is part of the problem because he's on the team I grant you that , but I think he's plays a very small part in the recent slide. JC has thrown for twice as many TD's than int's. He's thrown for nearly 3,00 yards in a run based offense with only one legit deep threat at WR position. Is JC the type of gunslinger QB that gets all the pub, I think not. IS he like a Rypien QB that needs some talent around him so that he can let his skills be shown, I think so. Face it people, the talent level on the skins offense is below average on the O-line and at WR. You can't win in todays NFL with that combination.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2008 8:23 AM | Report abuse

And why can't we throw a f_ing slant pass, evey team in the NFL can throw slants except us.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Another point a receiver does not need to be open by 10 yards to get the ball, you have to throw it and let the receiver make a play. This is the NFL your receivers are not normally going to be wide open.

Posted by: Flounder21

I would agree with you up to a point. Our receivers don't seem to fight for the ball. Moss used to outleap his man on deep balls but I have not seen it this year. ARE has never outfought someone for a pass. Kelly and Thomas have had so few passes that I can not say what they would do but JC has not demonstrated a faith in their ability to make the tough catch. There is nothing clicking in this offense, and without first downs the team leaves the field before any rhythm is established. This offense can not solely sustain itself on Portis because on days when he is getting 2 yards a carry mostly it finds itself in a hole on third down.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

It seems like so many of the passes that they throw are either at the LOS, or just beyond it. Throw the ball 15-20 yards down the field, the Redskins NEVER, EVER do this. It just boggles my mind. I hope that someone asked Zorn why he hasn't changed the game plan at all, why he hasn't seemingly made any adjustments to it.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse

We are not one or two pieces away people!

It's time to BLOW IT UP!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 8:38 AM | Report abuse

It's time to BLOW IT UP!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 8:38 AM |

Truth,

I agree but you can only blow it up in certain areas since they give stupid contracts. There are certain players that can't be cut do to salary cap.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 15, 2008 8:40 AM | Report abuse

"He was not under tremendous pressure all day, yet the results were no different than games that he was pressured. Mediocrity at it's best. It's time you recognized it."

Posted by: Almazar80

Actually, there were better results. Once again he had zero turnovers, completed more than 60% of his passes, and threw the only TD of the game.

The TEAM results were no different, because despite Campbell's effort, the run game was stuffed to near-nothing (mostly due to horrid run-blocking with Samuels and Jansen out), and the defense having arguably its worst outing of the season.

I find it funny that you're judging Jason Campbell purely on his W-L record, as if replacing Jason Campbell would have somehow helped this team improve pass-protection, catching balls that hit WRs in the hands, get the WRs separation on routes, keep skill players from fumbling in critical situations, keep the defense from giving up 8:00+ minute clock-killing drives, improve our defensive front's ability to get to the QB, and improve Jim Zorn's ability to properly analyze game situations and call effective plays as a result.

Jason Campbell is what he is. And what he is is a QB that will be as good as his supporting cast allows him to be. Give him a consistent, solid supporting cast and Campbell will be a consistent, solid QB. Give him great WRs and a good o-line, and Campbell will be a great QB. Give him 2-3 great WRs, and an elite o-line, and Campbell can be a perennial pro-bowler. And give him mediocre talent at the receiving positions and along the offensive line, and he'll be a mediocre QB. And the thing is, that's more than enough for what you need as a QB. Redskins fans should be thanking their deities that we have this guy for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

By the way, I reaaallly wish we had Joe Flacco right now. Did you guys see how he tore up that Pittsburgh defense? 11/28, 115 yds, 2 INTs, 0 TDs, and a FUM, despite their o-line only giving up 2 sacks. 100% already better than Jason Campbell, for sure.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

psp, mark this down, 8:47AM, Monday, December 15th, 2008.

We're in agreement....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

It's time to BLOW IT UP!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 8:38 AM


Truth I agree,
and that IT should be Vinny Cerrato!

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

"Why bother trying to win these two games with JC?

Posted by: TheTruth11"

We've already blown our load by picking the wrong coach, setting the team back a year. Benching Jason Campbell would potentially lose this team it's starting QB and set the team back even further. That is not a smart personnel move, unless you're trying to put this team back into the QB-seeking stage.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 8:50 AM | Report abuse

psps23 you said what I was trying to say, but only better. The one thing I give the Ravens credit for is that their offense highlights the strngths of the players. I don't see that here. JZ is so determined to run the WCO that he has been slow to incorporate the talents of the other skill players beyond Portis, Moss, and Cooley that the offense has now regressed.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

I think with a better offensive coordinator, like you could do worse, the team could have made some strides this year. Who is the OC, is it Zorn, or Stump?

If its Stump, he's gotta go...along with the WR coach, if he doesn't have them ready by now, sorry your time here is done.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Greg Blache said it best. We are like Forrest Gump's mother.

The Skins ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, but we still love em.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 15, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone else notice tha the skins basically ran the ball away from Heyer. A guy that big should dominate in the run game. Heyer is nothing more than a backup IMO.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2008 8:54 AM | Report abuse

"We've already blown our load by picking the wrong coach, setting the team back a year. Benching Jason Campbell would potentially lose this team it's starting QB and set the team back even further. That is not a smart personnel move, unless you're trying to put this team back into the QB-seeking stage.

Posted by: psps23"

Just tell him "You're our starter next year (cause he is/will be) but we don't want you getting hurt. You've taken a beating this year, we're gonna go with the backups to get them experience and save you from any pointless injuries."

This isn't just about TC\Colt, it's about JC. What if he gets hurt one of these games? It's pointless.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Fire Stump and Hixon, agree. Give a call to Holmgreen in 3 weeks and invite him to come over, have him and Zorn sit down and offer them a deal to bring on big mike, and say "We want you two to figure out who will be OC and who will be HC"

That is my solution.

PS anyone here have any web skills? Anyone interested in starting a website FireVinny.com

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse

"Did anyone else notice tha the skins basically ran the ball away from Heyer. A guy that big should dominate in the run game. Heyer is nothing more than a pansy IMO.

Posted by: TWISI"


Fixed.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 15, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Is Jason Campbell's contract up after this year? If so, it is time to cut him loose. I saw Colt Brennan make some plays Campbell is not capable of making this year in the preseason. Campbell, even though he is likeable as a person, is not capable of consistently making the big plays against good teams. He gets the ball on every down on offense.

Also, Portis needs to go. Find a way to minimize the cap implication and cut him loose.

Posted by: jcbell43 | December 15, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

"I saw Colt Brennan make some plays Campbell is not capable of making this year in the preseason"

You're an idiot.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: Cindy Boren | December 15, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Actually for a few plays I tried to focus on Heyer. It was not pretty. On a RUNNING play wide to his side he actually got pushed back 4 yards! That, boys and girls, is hard to do.

I think we all knew that the wide running plays were going to be snuffed this game because of the tackles, but the inside plays were bad as well. On Sellars two carries there was a negative surge at the line of scrimmage. Definitely not the glory days for our Hogs.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Zorn should be given at least another season. Allow him to pick his guys (at Quarterback, Running Back, Wide Out, etc..) and install his offense. If he fails again after next season, then no excuses can be made by Zorn.

Posted by: jcbell43 | December 15, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

I will say this, although I don't feel like Zorn will be a special coach in this league (although he may improve dramatically, who knows), I have cooled on the thought of firing him this quickly.

The only person I would advocate firing Zorn for is Bill Cowher at this point, because he may be the only viable guy in this league that Snyder would trust to hand over executive management to. If we can't get BC, then I'd probably say to stick with Zorn. (This opinion is also due in part to the fact that IF Snyder fires Zorn so quickly, virtually no young up-and-coming coach, like Spags, would trust Snyder for their first HC job). So if we can't get someone like BC, then Zorn should stay.

However, I agree with Greg that he MUST have some help acquired on the offense, coaching-wise. Somebody must be brought in to mentor his playcalling and his ability to adjust to defenses. Are there any other former WC head coaches or playcallers out there that can accomplish this? Anybody that would be willing to work as an OC for Zorn? Maybe someone like Marriucci? Just throwing some ideas out there.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

BOYCOTT THE F'ING GAME VS. PHILLY.

Most of the posts on here are correct. But Snyrato doesn't give a f about a blog.

They will care...greatly...if Skins fans PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS (so to speak), AND BOYCOTT THE PHILLY GAME.

Posted by: anonymousinva | December 15, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Is Jason Campbell's contract up after this year? If so, it is time to cut him loose. I saw Colt Brennan make some plays Campbell is not capable of making this year in the preseason. Campbell, even though he is likeable as a person, is not capable of consistently making the big plays against good teams. He gets the ball on every down on offense.

Also, Portis needs to go. Find a way to minimize the cap implication and cut him loose.

Posted by: jcbell43 | December 15, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

I couldn't agree more. Let cut Moss as well so the only 2 people on the team that give them a chance of scoring are gone. That will solve it all.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 15, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

It comes down to whether Redskins management is smart enough to get players who can win the big games. So far, our skill players have shown they can't win the big games, they're spoiled brats, and they have a delusional view of how good they are as football players. I think you right Pleepleus, cut Moss as well. Do you remember the play last year in the playoffs against Seattle when Moss just stopped running on a go route and the pass was intercepted?

Posted by: jcbell43 | December 15, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

It might just be me, but any list of things we need to do in the offseason has to start with "GM." Otherwise, aren't we trusting Dan and Vinny to pick the right players (OL, DL, QB) and coaches? I have absolutely ZERO faith that they can do that successfully.

As a season ticket holder, I'm done buying food/drinks and gear until they get serious about winning.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | December 15, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

It is amazing how Dallas drafts Bennett and they find a way to get him on the field even thought hey ave a probowl tight end in Jason Witten.

Washington Drafts the best tight end in all of college football and he doesn't see the field.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 15, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

This organization has been at best mediocre since JKC died...Snyder has devalued the HC position in Washington over the past 9 yrs. Jim Zorn will be a great HC someday. Just not in Washington. This organization is fatally flawed from top to bottom. and it does start with Dan and Vinny. To expect results that the elite coaches achieve from career qb coach Zorn is totally unrealistic at this point. his style can work, Players need to shut their mouths and do as the coach wishes. sure, Portis is a great player, but undermining the coach is never something that should be done in public. I think Zorn should be critical of his players. that is his job! If a player goes out and does what the coach tells him and the result sucks - guess what? You're not to blame. Zorn has the RIGHT to bench whomever he wants to. good players and leaders will do what is asked.
Zorn should be allowed some slack, and grow into this job. it is only fair.
He won't last in DC because Danny and vinny won't allow it. Players like CP and owners like danny crucify good coaches.
Norv, Marty, Steve,Gibbs,...and soon Zorn.
It is too bad there is no owner firing like on Madden.
This proud team died with Jack Kent Cooke

Posted by: fullonfully | December 15, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Cowher will never come to the Redskins. why would he? he coached and won a super bowl for a first class owner in a first class organization...
JKC- first class owner. Hired people who could get the job done while he sat in his box at RFK and watched the victories pile up. Bobby Beathard, Coach Gibbs, casserly all worked so well together. those 3 super bowl trophies are all that are left of that legacy. Cherish them. Snyder will never get one.

Posted by: fullonfully | December 15, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I would say at least we will have the draft to look forward to but with Vinny at the control panel Ugh! Vinny must go!

Posted by: bigjofc | December 15, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I can't take this crap anymore! Cerrato and Snyder always want to go for the flashy draft picks and refuse to build a team the right way. We need to draft nothing but O-Line and D-Line for the next 2 years! It makes me sick that we gave up quality draft picks for Jason Taylor, but we have to make the most of it.

Let's take a look at the O-Line:
Samuels is great, but he is not getting any younger. He has had some trouble with his knees of late and that can kill a LT that has to deal with the other team's best pass rusher.
Pete Kendall is a warrior, but only has about 1 year left in him. He has to sit out of practice each Wednesday and just sucks it up come gametime.
Rabach is tough and steady, but a back-up would be nice.
Thomas' play has dropped considerably. He was once a Pro-Bowl caliber player, but now I think that he is one of the weak links. He moves well in space and is effective when pulling, but get blown up blocking straight ahead. We need a physical OG to replace him.
Jansen just can not play OT in the NFL anymore. I respect his toughness, but I really feel that he would be better suited at OG at this point in his career.
Heyer is terrible. He is a decent back-up, but can not start in this league. He is incredibly soft and is only an average athlete.

The D-line can not get any pass rush and just gets pushed around. I really think that the DTs and more of the problem than the DEs as far as a pass rush is concerned. They get absolutely no push up field and QBs can step up in the pocket away from the DEs coming off the corner.

Needless to say, we NEED LINEMEN!!!!!

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 15, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

They should be booooooooooooood very badly on Sun. since they have played so badly in their own home field - they apparently can't hear the boos thru the TV when they are away!!!!! No way should they have lost to LA Rams & Bengels. Why does Flacco have production in first year but Jason is still four year rookie?? Also other teams are capable of going to NO HUDDLE OFFENSE why are Skins not running this at all. Over the last six games they should have been running this the whole game!!!!

Posted by: FrancisHerbert | December 15, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

PLEASE BRING IN GREG WILLIAMS/THAT'S WHAT GIBBS WANTED. HE KNOW THE TEAM VERY WELL AND HE KNOWS WHAT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. DAN IF YOU READ THESE IDEAS AND AS A TICKET HOLDER. LISTEN TO US THE FANS. PLEASE BRING GREG.

Posted by: rogerdodger24 | December 15, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

How do you fire the owner!!!! Were F'd

Posted by: LongTimeSkinsFan | December 15, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

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