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It's Time for DPOTW and FOZ

Jason Taylor is up for Defensive Player of the Week and Dan Steinberg delivers my favorite weekly feature of 2008: Faces of Zorn.

Taylor, as if you didn't know, had two sacks and forced a fumble that set up the Redskins' touchdown Sunday in their 10-3 win over Philadelphia.

The other nominees for the award, which will be announced Thursday evening [that's Christmas Day; thanks, NFL!] on nfl.com, are Cincinnati's Leon Hall, Tennessee's Jason Hall, Baltimore's Ed Reed, and Seattle's Josh Wilson.

Since this is a fan vote, you probably know how it'll turn out. Herewith the case for, let's face it, the also-rans:

Hall: two tackles, three interceptions (returned for 87 total yards, including a 50-yard touchdown) as the Bengals beat Cleveland;

Jones: 3.5 sacks, three forced fumbles, five tackles in Tennessee's victory over Pittsburgh;

Reed: two interceptions, one tackle as Baltimore beat Dallas;

Wilson: five tackles, (including a sack), three defensed passes (two interceptions) as Seattle beat the New York Jets.

By Cindy Boren  |  December 23, 2008; 12:07 PM ET
 
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Next: Hall, Skins in Preliminary Talks

Comments

The worry I have about Haynesworth is that sure he's balling right now, because he knows he's going to get PAID as a FA this spring.

What does he do after that? Keep balling, or become the next Dana Stubblefield?

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 23, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

you know, back in week four or five, the faces of Zorn thing was kind of funny, now it just pisses me off.

Zorn is the true definition of an assclown.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Taylor is 100-1 to win this week over the other guys.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 23, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

you know, back in week four or five, the faces of Zorn thing was kind of funny, now it just pisses me off.

Zorn is the true definition of an assclown.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Haha, yes the schtick is only funny when we win. When he said, "Keep it medium" I didn't know he meant 8-8. Keep that kinda medium somewhere else.

Posted by: Gweez | December 23, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Sweeny -

2009 - Last Capped Year
2010 - Last Year in CBA
2011 - Lock out by Owners (Who will 'win' this time)

According to my sources, if there is not a renegotiation of the CBA by the New League year of 2009 (1st Week in April 2009), then the league will def be heading into the uncapped year, and there's no returning from that.

There will be no renegotiation by then because of the untimely death of Upshaw and the players haven't voted on on new Head of the Union yet......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

++++"How many guys on every team are starting as rookies? I don't know that. But (Davis,Kelly Thomas) all showing promise, progress [and] what we saw in them in the draft".++++--Cerrato

Unbelieveable. "I don't know that" Any "GM" worth his salt would know that.

This, of course is the guy whose "chart" demanded he draft three receivers, and the three he chose. Other receivers were better. But I guess he didn't know that either.

Jason Taylor wouldn't contribute this year. But I guess he didn't know that.

It makes no sense to "draft for the future" and trade for the present when the draftees aren't good enough to get game experience and the tradeee is too old, too light, too hurt to play.

If this was a one year aberation, I'd say let it go. As it is, it is the Redskins Achilles heel.

As long as Dan backs Vinny, the team is never going to get past Mediocre.

The Cork
Chairman Vinny for Chief Executive of Johnny Rocket's

Off to San Francisco for Christmas and the game.

This tam will be second rate as long as Mr. Excuse holds the rins

Posted by: TheCork | December 23, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

I said after the Cincy loss that Suisham's last field goal, it looked effortless and I thought that he turned the corner on field goals. Outside of the swirly wind 54 yard miss, I noticed that he was kicking very deep on the kickoffs. I think that he has turned the corner and we don't have to worry about him anymore.

Posted by: charley42 | December 23, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Found it:

The Vikings will receive the Redskins' seventh-round pick if James plays in one regular-season game in 2008.

He was active for five games, but has no stats... I wonder if being active is equivalent to plays in a game...

Posted by: siris | December 23, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Da4th,

Maybe, maybe. Lotta what ifs in there. Gotta see how it plays out. A smart team has contingencies both ways...we'll see what we have....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

siris...the pick is gone,....he should have been cut on final cut day and the pick saved....d-u-m-b

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Just looking at QB stats on NFL.com. I have to agree with what Wilbon said recently:

Romo is a "nice" (decent) QB who is given WAYYYYYY too much credit/attention by the media.

Comparing numbers, his are nearly identical to Aaron Rodgers. 26 TDs for Romo, 25 TDs for Rodgers, both have 13 INTs, 3,265 yards for Romo, 3,730 yards for Rodgers.

Then again, Rodgers doesn't date Jessica Simpson, play with TO or work for Jerry Jones. So he's not an easy lead for the media to exploit/hype.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 23, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Let me see if I can break down a little of what JC just said on the DOC Walker show.
JC
"We could not go deep because they were playing a cover 2"

DOC
"Well why wasn't the middle of the field open then couldn't you get Colley down the middle"

JC
"They were playing a Tampa 2 so the middle Linebacker was covering down the middle"

I guess everybody in the league should play the Tampa 2 because accroding to JC it is impossible to throw down the field on it.

JC has to realize that WR's are not going to be running wide open in this league you have to make tight throws if you want to be good.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

flound, listening to the game on the puter, it was, "campbell pumps, campbell pumps", he's afraid to let it fly.

I just watched the highlights of the Saints game, and the Zona game on you tube. What happened to that offense? Where did it go?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I never dug that medium crap Zorn was shoveling.

I hated it then, and I definitely hate it now!

medium state of mind = medium results in life

and that b-dot-freakin-s medium stuff did what exactly? instill confidence? produced results late in the season when it mattered most? NOPE! it yielded a very pedestrian, very average, very MEDIUM 8-8 record.

yeah, I'm chalking up 'nother L boogie for the 'skins @ San Fran.


Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

More on JC's comments,

Santana is are only deep threat we would love to have Malcom out there running deep but he is hurt.

Devin Thomas we can't run him deep because we have to make sure he is lining up properly and running the right routes.

Malcom kelly has been a healthy scratch for the last two games.

Devin Thomas must be doing something right he plays a lot and catches some passes, the deep route should be the easiest to run.

I think JC is making a lot of excuses, he is scared to make mistakes so he dumps off all the time, he had plenty of time to throw in the last game.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse


brown, are you saying the 'skins should sign Stacy Andrews? If so, I'll pass.

I seen this movie before it was called the "Erasmus James Experiment". The story line: A defensive NFL player shreads his knee and against all odds makes an attempt to play football again. Sadly the injury changes the player forever and he is unable to perform at the level he was pre-injury.

Starring: Vinny Cerrato
Erasmus James - as himself
Greg Blache
Brad Childress
Ziggy Wilf
and Daniel Snyder

Posted by: RedDMV

--------

Difference is we gave up a draft pick for James. Andrews would come free of charge, and likely at a cheap, low-risk salary. Not a bad gamble.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I agree. When a guy gets all that $, it's hard to stay motivated. I would choose someone from Flounder's lists who his not quite as highly touted.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 23, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Tony Romo = Donovan McNabb

Except that McNabb wouldn't compromise his soul for T.O.

looser

Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

The top two were JC the rest was me, sorry.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

"JC has to realize that WR's are not going to be running wide open in this league you have to make tight throws if you want to be good.

Posted by: Flounder21"

The the bullet he attempted to Moss in the endzone?

Campbell's not an idiot. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to reading defenses, and he knows much more than he lets on in a radio interview. He watches film extensively and is tutored by a QB guru in Zorn (may not be a playcalling/scheme guru, but he knows QBs). When Campbell says there's nothing open down the field, that's a trustworthy opinion.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

I absolutely love Campbell's arm strength and character, but I do not think that he is ever going to be an elite QB. He just does not process things fast enough to hit receivers in stride and give them a chance to get RAC yards. But, the fact of the matter is that there are hardley any elite QBs in the game. We can win with JC, but we have to put a great O-Line in front of him. Hell, when is the last time that we had a great QB in Washington? I think that the last great QB that we had just passed away (Baugh). Maybe Jurgensen was great, but it has been forever since he played. My point is that we do not need JC to be Peyton Manning, we just need him to get a little bit better each year, which I think that he has done.

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth = No.
Gross = Depends on draft
Lance Moore or Devry Henderson = Yes
Suggs = yes
Trade down = yes
Duke Robinson, that Unger dude (center) = yes

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 23, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

JC is damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If he'd force the ball then people on here would say he can't read coverages. He reads the defense and follows his progressions, and he's not daring enough.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

psp,

Ther are a lot of QB's that make plays down the field when nothing is open you can get a receiver that makes a play or pass interference. If you wait for a wide open receiver you will never throw deep.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Wait Sonny played well after Baugh....I think we have had a few decent to championship QBs sin Baugh....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

"JC is damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If he'd force the ball then people on here would say he can't read coverages. He reads the defense and follows his progressions, and he's not daring enough.

Posted by: TWISI"

Precisely.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I like Jason Campbell. I hope he does well where ever he plays - dude has displayed a lot of class during his time here in D.C.

But Jason doesn't have it mentally to play QB at the NFL level or maybe just here. It doesn't make him "retarded", just incapable.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Along with Baugh & Jurgensen, Eddie LeBaron and Joey T (who even had a couple decent years under Pardee before Gibbs came) qualify, imho.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 23, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Deep throws on windy days are very risky.

Last season, eli threw a record number of incomplete passes in a windy game vs us in jersey.

You beating the cover 2 with lots of smaller plays. You get stuff underneath -- lots of throws to RBs. Plus you can often run, as the safeties start off deep.

If Campbell isn't throwing deep into a cover 2 on a windy day, I say -- good thinking

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

JC is definitely an elite back-up QB despite what PSP says on this subject. Don't forget, Vinny had a hand in picking him.

JC = tunnel vision when looking down the field. Locks on one receiver which does not allow him to see his other WR or where the pressure is coming from.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"psp,

Ther are a lot of QB's that make plays down the field when nothing is open you can get a receiver that makes a play or pass interference. If you wait for a wide open receiver you will never throw deep.

Posted by: Flounder21"

Which QBs are these? Who are they throwing to? How many "deep" routes do they get called per game? How long does their offensive line allow for routes to develop? What types of defense are the other teams playing against?

It's never as simple as "just throw it."

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:02 PM | Report abuse

JC is damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If he'd force the ball then people on here would say he can't read coverages. He reads the defense and follows his progressions, and he's not daring enough.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2008 12:56 PM |

Payton Manning forces the ball all the time, so do all the other great QB's.

You have to know that the WR is only going to be open when he makes his cut, you have to throw the ball so it arrives when he comes out of that cut.

Why is JC the only QB in the league that can't throw a slant?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Chrislarry, I never said that Sonny played before Baugh. Of the QBs that we have had, who would you consider elite? Do you really think that Rypien or Doug Williams, or even Theismann would be able to score points with this O-line and talent at WR? All I am saying is that the majority of NFL teams do not have elite QBs and we should not expect Campbell to ever become one. But, we can win with a smart QB who does not kill us with stupid mistakes.

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

psp,

Ther are a lot of QB's that make plays down the field when nothing is open you can get a receiver that makes a play or pass interference. If you wait for a wide open receiver you will never throw deep.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 12:57 PM

Damn right! Romo, Brees, McNabb, Eli - the list can go on.

Hell even Jackson up in Minnesota is making MORE plays than Campbell right now.

And if Campbell did force the ball with moderation (as opposed to Brett Favre), I'd think that damn at least he isn't scared.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Sonny was a great QB, the only great QB I've seen in a Skins uni. Most of the other 'good' QBs were guys who had good years, even some great years, but were a mixed bag overall.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

"JC = tunnel vision when looking down the field. Locks on one receiver which does not allow him to see his other WR or where the pressure is coming from.

Posted by: Skins930"

So which one is it? I thought the other day you were saying he was too quick to dump the ball off? So what is it? Does he lock on to one guy, or does he move through his progressions to get the ball to the open receiver -- even if it may be considered a "dump-off"?

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Which QBs are these? Who are they throwing to? How many "deep" routes do they get called per game? How long does their offensive line allow for routes to develop? What types of defense are the other teams playing against?

It's never as simple as "just throw it."

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:02 PM |

Your right lets blame it on the line or talent at receiver because it being JC's fault would not fit your argument.

Your right only the best teams in the league with the best QB's and the best Wr's and the best O-Lines, throw the ball down the field.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

ryp, like what you posted above. I'd still like to make a run at Gross no matter what. But I'd like to change going after Suggs to a no.

I just think he's more of a 3-4 LB, and the system in place in Bamore.

Heck, someone mentioned the guy who went to NE, he's been largely just a guy...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

someone asked about DemonTe Bolden. He's listed on the website as 6'5 290.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

thanks truth...what round is he projected to go in?

Good size, the team needs to add some serious heft on both sides of the line...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

JC way overthrew a wide open Davis on Sunday. Missed many short throws and as Flounder said, can't throw the slant.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"Your right lets blame it on the line or talent at receiver because it being JC's fault would not fit your argument.

Posted by: Flounder21"


What??? JC's "fault"? Avoiding throwing into double coverage is a fault?

Some people here are reaching new levels of delirium.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

psp,

We have better WR's then Philly they throw the ball down the field, and even though we beat them twice they have a chance at the playoffs and we don't.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Our QB has the fewest INTs of any QB out there. He has not thrown a pick 6.

We haven't given opposing teams many 'short fields' all year long (despite awful punting). A key reason why our defense is among the best in points allowed.

We all talk abut smash mouth, but one key is to never make it easy for the other guys. Campbell does this well. Not throwing foolish passes is a big part of it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

"JC way overthrew a wide open Davis on Sunday. Missed many short throws and as Flounder said, can't throw the slant.

Posted by: Skins930"

Yet because you are all-knowing, you know that route was perfectly well run and it was the ball that was mis-placed. It couldn't have been the other way around, despite the fact that Zorn has repeatedly said the rookies cannot get the timing and breaks on their routes correct. That was all JC's fault.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Good analogy:
Jurgenson and Baugh (the elite HOF passers)
LeBaron and Theismann (the scramblers)

"Along with Baugh & Jurgensen, Eddie LeBaron and Joey T (who even had a couple decent years under Pardee before Gibbs came) qualify, imho."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

What??? JC's "fault"? Avoiding throwing into double coverage is a fault?

Some people here are reaching new levels of delirium.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:10 PM |

You are right I said, I'm sure every receiver going down the field is double covered.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

beantown greg - worried about Gross a bit... hell be 29 by start of next year... Samuels and Jansen are only 31-32 and are in decline....

Id rather find our own young guys in the draft..

Actually instead of Suggs, I meant to say PEPPERS... id LOVE to have that guy....

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 23, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

While JC17 has the lowest # of INTs, he also has the lowest # of TDs by a QB.

Low Risk = Low Reward

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

"Damn right! Romo, Brees, McNabb, Eli - the list can go on."

"We have better WR's then Philly they throw the ball down the field, and even though we beat them twice they have a chance at the playoffs and we don't."


Huh, that's interesting. You guys are probably right on that. Did you see the Philly fan post on this blog last night?

This column explains why Philly fans do not like McNabb. Despite all the love tossed his way by announcers and out-of-Philly writers, we know who he is and he is not a leader, no matter how many times he tells everyone he is. He has been a good, not great QB, more concerned with his image than leading the team. He is afraid to takes chances. Twice, after games where he watched Brett Favre zip TD passes through a passel of defenders, McNabb said he wouldn't even try something like that. His stats are good because he generally throws only to open receivers or his fall back option. Tough to throw interceptions that way. 10 years and he still can't run a hurry-up offense or change a play that wouldn't work so as not to upset Reid. He's like a little kid afraid to disappoint his daddy. Off the field McNabb is a class guy, a gentleman. On field he is no leader. Does not instill confidence. Tell me why Eagles fans embraced Jeff Garcia, a lesser talent, than McNabb a couple of years ago? Because he inspired the team, the last time the Birds made the playoffs.

Posted by: mikel7

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Might as well say it ... if they still had Sean Taylor they might be playing defense beyond the Raven's level. A mistake-free, (even less interception prone than Billy the "K" or Dilfer) QB could have led to a Superbowl win.


"We all talk abut smash mouth, but one key is to never make it easy for the other guys. Campbell does this well. Not throwing foolish passes is a big part of it."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

According to scout.com he's a 7th rounder at best. His stats weren't too great in college, but I'm not sure how many great ones you'll find late.

So maybe our 7th rounder could go towards him.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

JC is not even averaging 1 TD per game. He is averaging 6.5 yards per pass.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Our QB has the fewest INTs of any QB out there. He has not thrown a pick 6.

We haven't given opposing teams many 'short fields' all year long (despite awful punting). A key reason why our defense is among the best in points allowed.

We all talk abut smash mouth, but one key is to never make it easy for the other guys. Campbell does this well. Not throwing foolish passes is a big part of it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 1:11 PM |

He also has thrown the fewest amount of TD's

Payton Manning has 12 picks I guess he stinks, Oh wait he has 26 TD's.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I am not going to blame any QB for a few bad throws in a 30 mph wind and ice cold weather.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 23, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

"

Demonte Bolden
Demonte Bolden

DL 6-5 300

Chattanooga, TN (Tyner)

Demonte Bolden had dreams of playing for Tennessee last year but it didn't work out that way. He failed to qualify academically and ended up at Hargrave (VA) Military Academy. Now he is ready as ever and will enroll at Tennessee in January and will most likely see playing time during the 2005 season.

Bolden was highly touted out of Tyner High School in Chattanooga. He was a Parade All American in 2003 as well as the Class 2A Mr. Football. The Knoxville News Sentinel rated him as the number one prospect in Tennessee. His Sr. year he had 112 tackles, 64 solo, 17 sacks, and 26 tackles for a loss on a team that finished 12-2. Bolden played both Offensive Line and Defensive Line. He is very athletic and can move very well for someone of his size.

Tidbits: Some have compared him to Reggie White at this point in his career. He was born November 17, 1985. "

from a Vol blog

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I've said I think turnovers are worth 50 yards, plus the difference in field position.

On a day where its tough to move the ball, throwing a ball 50 yards downfield, and having it picked with zero return (ah... the fine print) is a pretty neutral play.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Yet because you are all-knowing, you know that route was perfectly well run and it was the ball that was mis-placed. It couldn't have been the other way around, despite the fact that Zorn has repeatedly said the rookies cannot get the timing and breaks on their routes correct. That was all JC's fault.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:13 PM

Zorn also said Davis was the most improved player on the team and was heaping praise on the young TE. That was not the only pass JC miss. He is far from accurate as a passer.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

All you guys who are judging JC without being able to see the whole field AND know what the play was designed to do are just talking smack.

I would take legit criticisms as he's inaccurate/weak arm/no touch, because that's stuff you can see. The other stuff: making the right reads, for example, you just don't know. In fact teams go to great lengths to disguise what they're trying to accomplish.

Remember Jay Schroeder? He could not look off a safety: if he looked away and then back at a receiver he was wild. Some guys have glaring weaknesses.

Now, for all those who want our QB to gamble, how's that working out for that uber-moron Rex Grossman? He gambles as much or more than Romo does, only Romo has much better WR and a better scheme.

JC is fine, is a good QB and can be a championship caliber QB. He's got the physical attributes. I claim he's reading defenses well because his INTs are very low. He could improve his accuracy, and the one thing I'm not sure about is his deep ball. But the only guy they have going deep (#89) is being doubled, which makes it very risky to throw it up and have him make a play. The underthrown deep ball is usually picked when thrown against double coverage, for example.

A good question, however: why aren't they throwing more slants and 3 step drops?

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"You are right I said, I'm sure every receiver going down the field is double covered."

Your post earlier:

"We could not go deep because they were playing a cover 2"

DOC
"Well why wasn't the middle of the field open then couldn't you get Colley down the middle"

JC
"They were playing a Tampa 2 so the middle Linebacker was covering down the middle"

I guess everybody in the league should play the Tampa 2 because accroding to JC it is impossible to throw down the field on it.

JC has to realize that WR's are not going to be running wide open in this league you have to make tight throws if you want to be good.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 12:46 PM

I hope you understand the concept of a cover-2, which essentially becomes a cover-3 if the MLB is taking away the deep middle.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Zorn also said Davis was the most improved player on the team and was heaping praise on the young TE. That was not the only pass JC miss. He is far from accurate as a passer.

Posted by: Skins930

Zorn said that? I never saw that. Could you provide a quote?

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

ryp, good call on Gross, I was unaware he was that old, agreed, I'll pass...take a chance on a younger kid..although I think peppers is the same age....

Is smack around?? Wondering his thoughts on Chris Canty...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Let's not forget that early in the year teams did not know what to expect from Zorn and the offense. So, the passing game was more effective. Now, we have to think about 2 things: First, D-coordinators are better prepared for Zorn's offense becasue they have more film on them and they have figured out down and distance tendancies. So, they are able to call defenses that take the first and sometimes second reads away from JC. It is impossible for him to check to 3 or 4 different people on all of his passes. Secondly, we are playing with our 2 back-up OTs, which means that we have to keep more people in to block. More people blocking equals less people out in the routes that have to be accounted for. This was even happening when Jansen was healthy becasue he was struggling so badly in pass protection.
Now, do I think that Campbell can do a better job of taking some calculated risks and making the passes that are open, absolutley. But, let's look at the whole picture.

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"He is far from accurate as a passer.

Posted by: Skins930

Far from accurate? 62% completion is far from accurate?

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

t1, thanks for the post on Bolden. worth keeping an eye on for when the combine/pro days roll around...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

This column explains why Philly fans do not like McNabb.........

Huh, Philly fans are idiots! McNabb guns passes through coverage all the time, and he throws deep. Which is why I wouldn't mind if he came here. At least he could teach JC how to throw a pass beyond 20 yards in the WCO.

If Desean Jackson doesn't drop that perfectly thrown pass to him in the end zone, the Eagles win that game.

Philly fans are delusional and don't appreciate how good they've had it for the last 10 years.

If and when McNabb is gone. It will be back to the cellar for them.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 23, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Really don't know why this is a new and arising issue about JC and his refusal/inability to throw it downfield.

Some of it may have to do with the lack of physicality that the WRs display to go up and TAKE the ball out of the air.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

"Now, do I think that Campbell can do a better job of taking some calculated risks and making the passes that are open, absolutley. But, let's look at the whole picture.

Posted by: NCMatt1"

Exactly.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

I hope you understand the concept of a cover-2, which essentially becomes a cover-3 if the MLB is taking away the deep middle.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:19 PM |

So why doesn't every team run this defense since you can't throw deep against it.

I see every team thrwoing deep TD's except us.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"If Desean Jackson doesn't drop that perfectly thrown pass to him in the end zone, the Eagles win that game"


pred, they'd have tied the game....they were down 7....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Hell even no arm Chad pennington throws down the field for TD's

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

beantown - yeah Peppers is turning 29... I think DEs have a longer shelf life, but I guess it also depends on our draft....

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 23, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Just to be clear... Campbell is a good QB. He is not 1st ballot, slam dunk HOF. We do not have the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in the house.

But we also don't have Reggie Wayne or Marvin Harrison or Wes Welker or Randy Moss. Or the OL that NE or Indy has.

To those who want to compare Campbell to 1st ballot HOF guys, go right ahead. But the last 1st ballot HOF guy to wear a Skins uni was Sammy Baugh.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

But we also don't have Reggie Wayne or Marvin Harrison or Wes Welker or Randy Moss. Or the OL that NE or Indy has.

To those who want to compare Campbell to 1st ballot HOF guys, go right ahead. But the last 1st ballot HOF guy to wear a Skins uni was Sammy Baugh.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 1:32 PM |

Really NE has given up 44 sacks 10 more then us and there QB has fewer pass attempts then JC.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

"Some of it may have to do with the lack of physicality that the WRs display to go up and TAKE the ball out of the air.

Posted by: RedDMV"

I'd say a LOT of it has to do with that. Tom Brady averaged 24.5 TDs a year in his first 6 seasons as a starter, with his high being 28. Give him Randy Moss and Wes Welker, and his total exploded to 50 TDs in one year.

And this is first-ballot HOF, arguably the GOAT Tom Brady we're talking about here. If JC becomes half the QB Brady is, I'd be ecstatic. JC's got the decision making and mistakes down, he needs the weapons to take the next step.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

"JC has to realize that WR's are not going to be running wide open in this league"

Au contraire, my good man. Just look at some of the elite passing teams, NWE and DAL. Guys are running around wide open all the time.

Brett Farve takes risks all the time, which is why he's a Jet and not a Packer. He has 4 TD games, and 4 INT games. The Barry Sanders of QB's, although Farve does have a SB win and Sanders doesn't.

You need to be consistent, and not a risk taker. Manning has 12 picks, 5 of them came in losses early in the year when he and the Colts were struggling. When the Colts were dominating in 03-07, he had 10/10/10/9 for the entire year.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

To those who want to compare Campbell to 1st ballot HOF guys, go right ahead. But the last 1st ballot HOF guy to wear a Skins uni was Sammy Baugh.

Posted by: zcezcest1

My point exactly. We have so many holes to fill on this team it is crazy. Campbell is a good player, but since he plays QB, he takes all of the blame. We need to upgrade all of the positions where we have sub-par talent and go from there. People spend WAY too much time putting everything on the shoulders of team's QBs.

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

So why doesn't every team run this defense since you can't throw deep against it.

I see every team thrwoing deep TD's except us.

Posted by: Flounder21

--------

Because not every team can get pressure with a 4 man rush. We aid that by having a poor offensive line.

When you CAN get pressure with just 4 men rushing, AND you can pull this defense off, the result is the '02 Bucs, one of the greatest defenses in history.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

They've got to get Zorny on one of those Coors Light commercials.

Posted by: austin987654 | December 23, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

And this is first-ballot HOF, arguably the GOAT Tom Brady we're talking about here. If JC becomes half the QB Brady is, I'd be ecstatic. JC's got the decision making and mistakes down, he needs the weapons to take the next step.

Posted by: psps23

Right now his is maybe 1/4 the qb that brady is. And not getting better.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I never said get rid of JC I said he needs to go down the field more and stop being scared to pull the trigger.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I see every team thrwoing deep TD's except us.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 1:27 PM

I see dead people.

Just because a team trades away three of its seven draft picks doesn't mean the merchandise in the free agency market can fill nagging roster spots. This offseason is not going to be as much fun as previously. At some point, the recession kicks in and the future borrowing has to get paid back. And I'm not talking about the economy.

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Flounder you're comparison JC to Manning carries little weight. First, how long has Manning and his WR's, Ol, Rb's been in that system? It takees time my man. Second, throwing the ball to WR's who don't make the average play routinly is high risk, low reward. Most if the skins WR's have been below average in gaining separation and running routes this year.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

I see dead people.

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 1:40 PM

No, those be the 'skins.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

We have so many holes to fill on this team it is crazy. Campbell is a good player, but since he plays QB, he takes all of the blame. We need to upgrade all of the positions where we have sub-par talent and go from there. People spend WAY too much time putting everything on the shoulders of team's QBs.

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 1:35 PM |

JC is not the only problem and I never said he is the only problem. We do have many holes. I am just saying that JC is should not be starting in the NFL. He cannot read defenses. Almost never hits the hot receiver when teams blitz him. His tunnel vision does not allow him to see the whole field which means that he will be dumping it off after he finishes locking on Moss.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Right now his is maybe 1/4 the qb that brady is. And not getting better.

Posted by: Skins930

-----

Not getting better? His QB rating, completion percentage, INTs, Yards, TDs, Fumbles, and rushing yards have all improved every year he's started -- including this one. How is that "not getting better"?

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I think that we need to go after Michael Crabtree in the draft...Just kidding! But, you have to admit, it would be a classic Vinny/Danny move.

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"JC's got the decision making and mistakes down, he needs the weapons to take the next step"

JC needs to learn to trust his weapons, I think the relationship between JC, and Moss/ARE/Kelly/Cooley/Davis/Thomas is going to be the most important thing that has to, it HAS TO happen this offseason.

They have to, spend time working together. It just HAS to happen...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Not getting better? His QB rating, completion percentage, INTs, Yards, TDs, Fumbles, and rushing yards have all improved every year he's started -- including this one. How is that "not getting better"?

Posted by: psps23

This is his second year as a starter and to me he is regressing as this year goes on. Early on he was seeing the field better that he has been lately. Blame it on the OL and Zorn's scheme, but he does not look like he is improving.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

JC is not the only problem and I never said he is the only problem. We do have many holes. I am just saying that JC is should not be starting in the NFL. He cannot read defenses. Almost never hits the hot receiver when teams blitz him. His tunnel vision does not allow him to see the whole field which means that he will be dumping it off after he finishes locking on Moss.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:43 PM |

If JC should not be starting, then who should be? Please don't say Todd Collins or Colt Brennan. The fact of the matter is that this is not MLB and we can't go buy a Manning or Brady. We have to make due with what we have and that is a QB that is steady who does not kill us with mistakes. On the other hand, he will never average 300 yds a game either.

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Flounder, I agree that the Redskins need more big plays, I think most of us agree.

I don't think they can get them just by heaving the ball up and hoping Moss makes a play. Because he's Santana Moss, not Randy Moss.

The real question is why they don't have those big plays: is it because Zorn's offense is not designed for them, or is it because the O-line can't provide the necessary protection?

I see all these hooks and outs, guys not catching the ball moving upfield.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"He cannot read defenses. Almost never hits the hot receiver when teams blitz him. His tunnel vision does not allow him to see the whole field which means that he will be dumping it off after he finishes locking on Moss.

Posted by: Skins93"

It's these kind of statements that make me shake my head.

Are you breaking down film? Do you sit in on the meetings they have? Does the fact that Moss have 78 receptions, Cooley have 77 receptions, and Randle El having 50 receptions mean he's "locking on" to one guy, then "dumping it off" when Moss isn't open? Does his lack of INTs and ability to recognize coverages on his WRs mean that "he can't read defenses"?

Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

indeed, Greg. the only WR that JC has any confidence in is Cooley.

i'd even say the trust factor hasn't reached its potential with the teams best WR in Moss.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

The cover 2 philosophy is simple. Bend, don't break.

Don't give up any big plays. If you force teams to drive for 12-15 plays to score, the theory is that sometime during that long drive, something goes wrong for the offense (penalty, sack, fumble, etc) that kills the drive.

Couple a good cover 2 with a good red zone defense and you will be competitive in most gmaes

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

If JC should not be starting, then who should be? Please don't say Todd Collins or Colt Brennan. The fact of the matter is that this is not MLB and we can't go buy a Manning or Brady. We have to make due with what we have and that is a QB that is steady who does not kill us with mistakes. On the other hand, he will never average 300 yds a game either.

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 1:48 PM

Nor have I said that either of the two other QBs on our roster should start. Just sayin that he is not a starting QB in the NFL. He is probably the best we have on the team, but like in Chicago, does not mean we have a good QB.

Yes we have to make do with what we have, but does not mean we can't voice an opinion about the team/players.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:52 PM | Report abuse

"JC needs to learn to trust his weapons, I think the relationship between JC, and Moss/ARE/Kelly/Cooley/Davis/Thomas is going to be the most important thing that has to, it HAS TO happen this offseason.

They have to, spend time working together. It just HAS to happen...

Posted by: BeantownGreg"

I agree. They won't have the resources to bring in anybody else, so we need the young guys to break out and the offense in general to take a major leap in this scheme. Campbell's always had great offseason work ethic, we can only hope that rubs off on the rooks.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking to 2008 season is the last 'good' season this team will have for the next few years. Just too many holes to fill and too many restrictions on how to fill those holes.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Are you breaking down film? Do you sit in on the meetings they have? Does the fact that Moss have 78 receptions, Cooley have 77 receptions, and Randle El having 50 receptions mean he's "locking on" to one guy, then "dumping it off" when Moss isn't open? Does his lack of INTs and ability to recognize coverages on his WRs mean that "he can't read defenses"?

Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 1:48 PM

I watch as much film as you do, but without the maroon glasses. I also watch other games and see how the QBs on those teams play. You do not have to watch film to see that one QB has it and another does not.

Please explain to me how watching film is helping Vinny???

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

psps23 -- right on!

JC is a good QB and with more protection might be a very good QB. He's a proven starter. Skins930, I just don't agree with your assessment, and if you have numbers that defend it please share. Yes, he's not thrown a lot of TD's. It's debatable as to why. But if you have a number that's purely QB play (completion percentage, INTs,) then let's have it.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

"I'm thinking to 2008 season is the last 'good' season this team will have for the next few years. Just too many holes to fill and too many restrictions on how to fill those holes.

Posted by: zcezcest1"

It all depends on how the last two-three rookie classes pan out.

If Heyer, Rinehart, Thomas, Kelly, Davis, Monty, Golston, and Blades all keep improving and become solid players, this team will stay around the 7-8-9 mark. If some of them become studs, we could be even better soon. If they stay at status quo, look for some poor seasons up ahead.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

psp, to me its not an option. Zorn needs to shove his size 10 up some azz this offseason.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

The funny part is because of the 2009 cap, we will not be able to fix many of the teams problems, whether it's Jansen, JC, CP or whomever. Zorn will have to work on his scheme and play calling and get the players to overachieve next year to do much more than this year.

And the pass catchers need to be part of the game plan.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 23, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

In a WCO you need a versatile, multi-dimensional running back. I note that JC seems to be able to run the offense better when Betts is in the game.

Unlike guys say well like Emmitt Smith, or Brian Westbrook Portis IS NOT multi-dimensional. IN a Gibbs / Coryell / Saunders offense the running back is often a pass blocker for the vertical game.

This is not the case with WCO which relies on running backs not just as escape valves but in screens, etc.

Factor in the poor play / lack of experience on the part of the 2 rookie wide-outs and the new TE for whatever reason and you end up with a very restrictive offense. You aren't going to throw to Portis and make much headway.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

OK, let me put it this way:

JC = LBM

Neither are good QBs. With good teams they will be able to win games, heck, even a SB, but they are not good QBs.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 23, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

PSPS -- you it the nail on the head. Every time I look at what it will take for the Skins to succeed in the next few years, I always start the statement with about 5 'ifs'. Anytime you need that many 'ifs' to work out, you're in trouble.

++++
It all depends on how the last two-three rookie classes pan out.

If Heyer, Rinehart, Thomas, Kelly, Davis, Monty, Golston, and Blades all keep improving and become solid players, this team will stay around the 7-8-9 mark. If some of them become studs, we could be even better soon. If they stay at status quo, look for some poor seasons up ahead.

Posted by: psps23
++++

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

So Skins930, who are the QB's that have it? Take a look at your list, cross off the top 5 or 6, and tell me who on the list is better than JC.

There are 32 teams in the NFL, and there must be at least 32 starting QB by definition. I'd say JC is easily in the top half.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

"JC = LBM

Neither are good QBs. With good teams they will be able to win games, heck, even a SB, but they are not good QBs.

Posted by: Skins930 "

Eli gets a lot of disrespect. I know his final stats last year (tied for most picks), and maybe you can pull out some negative stats from this year but when I sit and watch him play a full game, he looks like a pretty good QB to me.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Heyer, Monty, Golston, Blades, Evans, Horton:
-- starters.

Rhinehart, Davis, Kelly, Thomas:
-- not even backups.
(and its not like we haven't seen this before with almost every single receiver and tight-end drafted ... can we say
Darnien McCants, Taylor Jacobs, Tyler Ecker, Kili Lefotu, Mark Wilson, Jim Molinaro, Robert Royal, Reggie Coleman, Cliff Russell ... just to name a few?

They did get Derrick Dockery, victim of Snidely Owl / Vinnie stupidity and too much dead cap weight.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 2:01 PM

I would add coaching to that list. Seems like Zorn's game plans and adjustments need to improve as well.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 23, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Campbell is an average QB right now, still developing and rated where he belongs in the middle of the pack. Even Ceratto said he is progressing but not a lock as the long term answer at QB. One of the very few times I agree with him.

Even though his completion % has improved he still needs to work on his accuracy. Countless number of times guys are not getting hit in stride and have to reach and adjust for passes. And as much as I don't like it this offense is gonna be based on timing and short passes for the most part.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 23, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Eli gets a lot of disrespect. I know his final stats last year (tied for most picks), and maybe you can pull out some negative stats from this year but when I sit and watch him play a full game, he looks like a pretty good QB to me.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 2:10 PM |

I'm with you on that Truth. Anyone who's still talking trash about LBM at this point didn't watch the Super Bowl last year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

"I watch as much film as you do, but without the maroon glasses.

Posted by: Skins930"

You're out of your element with the "maroon glasses" comment. At one point, I was (mistakenly) pegged up here as someone that posts solely to provide negative comments. Jim Zorn, the rookie WRs, Vinny Cerrato, Jason Taylor, and Jon Jansen have all felt my wrath up here at various points this season, just to name a few.

"You do not have to watch film to see that one QB has it and another does not."

Yea, if you're talking about Ryan Leaf, Rex Grossman, or a QB that throws with 50% completion and 30 INTs over a season. But you're talking about a QB that is statistically above average is nearly every single category, except for TDs. You're argument goes against nearly every single statistic, and has zero visible evidence, save for the "he doesn't take chances" argument. And you will not here me disagree with that point.

My guess is that this is the same type of sentiment that was sent towards Brad Johnson, as if "he didn't have it". And Campbell's upside in comparison to Johnson is very large.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

From 2003-2007 the redskins averaged at least 2 starters even when there were only 4 choices total!
With the exception of 2003 that I think can be directly attributed to Joe Gibbs and Greg Williams.

The fact that they got 2 killer 1st rounders in Sean Taylor and LaRon Landry; instead of going for some "beast" at DE as RI chuckleheadness seemed to espouse,, say well like ERASMUS JAMES!!!!

Clearly you pick a Taylor even over someone like DeMarcus Ware.

This last draft (sans Gibbs and Williams input, assuming rightly that both Zorn and Blache were ignored) shows a marked difference ...

You can't get there from here with Danny and Vinnie at the helm.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

"OK, let me put it this way:

JC = LBM

Posted by: Skins930"

If Campbell equals Eli, consider me satisfied.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

To all of you commenting on Sonny Jurgensen,Sonny was an elite passer and a good signal caller he called his own plays for the most part,and no he didn't win a lot of games because he was on some bad teams Sonny had the benefit of some great receivers,Bobby Mitchell,Charley Taylor, and Jerry Smith, the 67 season they finished one,two and four in receptions in the NFL. George Allen became the head coach in 1971 and he bought in Billy Kilmer a journeyman qb with a suspect arm, Kilmer couldn't carry Jurgey's jock,but he carried out Allen's conservative gameplan. He took no chance's and didn't improvise, which Jurgensen was apt to do,he took great liberties with the gameplan when Allen was h/c which got him benched in turn that started the greatest qb controversey the DC area has ever seen including bumper stickers for whichever qb the fans favored in the end it was Kilmer, Larry Brown,and Charley Taylor who led the Redskins to their first Super Bowl against the undefeated Miami Dolphins but it must be acknowledged that Jurgensen had won the starting job over Kilmer in the 1972 training camp but tore his achilles at Yankee stadium in fourth game of the regular season against the Giants and thus Kilmer won the job by default also Sonny had one winning season before Allen took over that was 1969, the one and only year Vince Lombardi coached the Skins as most of us know Lombardi died the following year of cancer,Jurgensen to be sure had a great arm and he threw a beautiful spiral but he was of a different era where the QB wasn't a robot in my mind Johnny Unitas was and still is one of the greatest signal callers the game has ever seen.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 23, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

I believe this defense really only needs 1 or 2 marquee players to be the best in the NFL. Clearly a replacement for Sean Taylor would be nice ... but he was rare ... rarer than a Champ Bailey or a Darrell Green.

Yes, there is aging but the "backups" have performed admirably as starters in the defense.

The same cannot be said of the offense.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Skin930, I think what you want is a great QB, not a good one.

Your accuracy comment isn't defendable: if guys are reaching for passes it may be because JC has a very small window to throw the ball, or that the route run was not precise, or he had to adjust in the pocket and it made him late. Stuff like that you don't know unless you're on the inside. Even then, it's difficult to see the window (i.e. space between defenders).

He's hitting the guys when they're clearly open, and his completion percentage is good. That tells me he's accurate.

If you claimed that JC is not a great QB, I think you'd get a lot less argument.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

OKAY PEOPLE

If yall wanna talk about Quarterbacks, LET'S TALK ABOUT QUARTERBACKS

1) David Green is currently available.
2) DJ Shockley is currently available.
3) Quincy Carter is currently available.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

JC needs to learn to trust his weapons, ...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 1:44 PM

Plaxico had a problem with that ... too much trust ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Jurgy was actually fit to play by the 3rd or 4th game of the Superbowl season after suffering the injury in Allen's first year there. By then Allen had made Kilmer the official starter.

When Jurgenson came in he, like Kilmer, called his own plays. The offense would change markedly. He was usually called upon when the team was behind. Kilmer was not any good at comebacks from 17-21 points down. Jurgenson could handle it if Allen gave him enough time and didn't wait until the 2 minute warning.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

dc, nicely done....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Eli = overrated.

He had ONE good quarter in the SuperBowl, half of which was made up of a dumpoff to Boss and the miracle Tyree catch. Not to mention NE dropped two INTs on that last drive which would have ended the game. If you look at the first 3 quarters of that game, he was awful.

He has the same QB rating as JC WITH the best O-line and running game in the league.

Lets put him behind our line, with our team, and see how "great" he is.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 23, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Great Article on JB.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Winning a Super Bowl changed Eli ... in a bad way for the Skins, because it improved his confidence immeasurably. That said, the beatings that teams put on the Giants were based on relentless pounding of Eli to the ground (i.e., the way to rattle him is to literally rattle him, even though he became WAY more confident when upright as of that Super Bowl).

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Hahahaha... I H A T E D A L L A S !

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgjhSFl3pQkoGqvpxL3_3RJDubYF?slug=jc-cowboys122008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Jerry Jones asked the NFL to schedule the Ravens as the last home game in Texas Stadium.

For next weekend, my second favorite team is the Filthy-Delphia Iggles...

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

All too true. The dead cap payments need to disappear. The guaranteed bonuses need to end for the more expensive veterans on the roster. Give it 2 years if they don't spend any more cap money friviolously. If they decide to go young this team will not win for at least 2 years for that reason alone.

"I'm thinking to 2008 season is the last 'good' season this team will have for the next few years. Just too many holes to fill and too many restrictions on how to fill those holes.

Posted by: zcezcest1"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

... If you look at the first 3 quarters of that game, he was awful. ...

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 23, 2008 2:28 PM

I don't deny that, but this goes to my point about why its important to win out the last two games of the season. Memory is strongest in recency and latency.

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Nobody is saying Eli is God. But he's been to the playoffs 4 years in a row (this will be his 4th), he's won a SB, he's been a super bowl MVP, and he's locked up the #1 seed this season. It just goes to show you how you don't need a perfect QB to be dominant in this league.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

We need to come to an agreement on RI. Of the JC haters (which i am not) there are 2 points

1) He locks on to a receiver
2) He checks down all the time which is why he has a high completion %

It is impossible for both of these arguements to be true.

Posted by: NFeKPo | December 23, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

It just goes to show you how you don't need a perfect QB to be dominant in this league.

Posted by: psps23 | December 23, 2008 2:32 PM

... AND it shows that a mouth breather can win the Superbowl!

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

We need to come to an agreement on RI. ...

Posted by: NFeKPo | December 23, 2008 2:33 PM

The only thing we NEED is more cowbell, but we do strive to talk things to death and repeatedly beat dying and dead horses.

I'm going to say that he does not lock down on a single guy, but that he does check down plenty.

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/people/10513.html

Sorry forgot link to good article on JB......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

The off-season/draft can't get here soon enough! I can't wait until we have more to talk about than JC. With that being said, I pose a question about the SF game. Is it better for us to lose the game and draft higher, or win and maybe move us back a few slots in the draft? I say win every game that you can. This team has lost enough over the past 10+ years. Any thoughts?

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Seems to me you don't fix a broken offensive line by figuring out how to restructure the rest of the offense so you can win without an O.L.

But what do I know (besides that we always need more cowbell).
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 23, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I'm going to say that he does not lock down on a single guy, but that he does check down plenty.

Posted by: dcsween


Do we have a second? Once this is decided I don't want to hear anymore "JC locks on to blal blal blal" You must stick to one false arguement not both.

Posted by: NFeKPo | December 23, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

It really doesn't matter where you end up in the draft. There have been plenty of "busts" at or close to the top. Fortunately, the Redskins have not had that problem under Joe Gibbs. Unfortunately, that is probably why Vinnie traded down ... he knew he was likely to screw up if he drafted high ... ~smiles~ ending up with an expensive draft pick with little cap space to fit him. And then if he is a bust?

And that's the trick. Not so much where in the order, but who. It doesn't matter as long you get value from the choice and don't screw the pooch.

The only exception might be if you have a record like Cincinnati. If you are careful you may get more value drafting higher.

The real trick / value IMHO is getting multiple picks in the first round. As many as possible in the first 2. That is real value. Those should be starters out of the block.

Unfortunately, Danny and Vinnie are making the choices so that scenario would be highly unlikely.

"Is it better for us to lose the game and draft higher, or win and maybe move us back a few slots in the draft? "

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

NCMatt1, Skins should be trying to CRUSH the 49ers this week!

[Also, I read somewhere that this week is Mustache Week in the Niners lockerroom ... I dunno, seems kind of Village People to me ... not that there's anything wrong with that.]

Nothing like a little lust for mayhem to wind up the season.

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

You are right. That seems to be the critical need. Yet they have indeed drafted for those positions. In the last just around 10 years they uncovered only one starter and he left for Buffalo before last season. A victim of dead cap weight. You still have dead cap weight. How do you pay a really good OT? After his 1st 2 seasons?


"Seems to me you don't fix a broken offensive line by figuring out how to restructure the rest of the offense so you can win without an O.L."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

100 seconds left. Bob Greise's Miami Dolphins 17, Sonny's Skins 13. RFK stadium early 1970's. Herb Mul-key's strong return give the Skins the ball at their own 40. Two time outs.

On first down, the Miami rush gets in Sonny's face and the old QB moves away from the rush long enough to get a quick flip off to Moses Denson, who slips forward for 6 yards. Jurgy sets the team quickly for second down, takes the snap, a quick drop, and fires a bullet to Jerry Smith, who is hit immediately at the Fins 44, a first down. Continuing without a huddle, Sonny throws a square out to Charley Taylor, who catches the pass at the Fin 40, setting up 2nd and 6 with the clock now stopped.

This time, Jurgy takes a deep drop, is able to step up and find Charley Taylor on the right side, on the RFK infield portion of the field. Taylor makes the grab of a perfect throw and a pair of Miami DBs haul him down as the dirt flies everywhere. When the dust settles, its 1st and 10 at the 22, the Skins used their 2nd timeout.

Next play, Sonny drops back, steps to his left to avoid the rush, and hits Roy ("I can't play football all my life") Jefferson for a first down at the Miami 6. First and goal, the final timeout is used.

Sonny gets the snap, 3 step drop and throws a perfect pass to Moses Denson, who beats the Miami LB on a beautiful curl pattern. The ball and Denson would meet at the goal line ... except ... the Miami LB tackles Denson at the 2 realizing that its an easy TD if he doesn't. The most blatant pass interference in NFL history, results in, of course, a no call (even the Miami LB would say after the game that he tackled Denson to save the TD).

No matter, Sonny takes the next snap, throws it in the right flat to Larry Smith, who runs it to the goal line and in a call closer than the one that got overturned in the recent Pitts/Ravens game, the ref calls a TD, with 16 seconnds left.

Final

Skins 20
Miami 17

Sonny vs the Fins, in the second half(!), 19 of 25 for 230 yards.


Now, if only I could remember where I put the car keys ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

NFeKPo, all those passing plays that are JUST short of the first down MUST be check downs ... that's all I can figure.

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Absolutely. Makes them more attractive for both high end draft picks and FAs. Let's face it, free agents and rookies have to be looking askance at this team and wondering ... just as we do.


"NCMatt1, Skins should be trying to CRUSH the 49ers this week!"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

You are right. That seems to be the critical need. Yet they have indeed drafted for those positions. In the last just around 10 years they uncovered only one starter and he left for Buffalo before last season.
===========================================
Peri, Dockery was the last O.L. they drafted that high (3rd round, 2003) until Reinhart this last draft.

Meanwhile, the five starters all got old, each one was over 31 this year (I still maintain this aging thing is predictable, for instance I believe I'm going to get older next year).
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 23, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

dcsween - Most of those "just short" plays are going to moss/cooley/ARE. If the scheme has those three as your check downs who was the primary option? Thrash?!?

Besides JZ is on record says he expects the WR to get that extra yard. hopefully he takes a look at that this offseason and extends those routes by 1.5 yards

Posted by: NFeKPo | December 23, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Whatever skinz and redmv said today.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

I think I saw him on a kids show? :) Well he was A LOT better than Brandon "give me my gigantic guaranteed bonus and wooooollll see ya baby" Lloyd. At least Allen hardly ever made a mistake like that ... but Danny and Vinnie? Sheesh Danny ... you can be so embarrassing ...


"Next play, Sonny drops back, steps to his left to avoid the rush, and hits Roy ("I can't play football all my life") Jefferson"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

You may be forgetting OG Kili Lefotu? Drafted in the 7th round in 2006 or perhaps Mark Wilson drafted in the 5th round in 2004 along with Jim Molinaro? That's 3 draft picks. Three potential YOUNG backups or starters. Since Dockery only undrafted free agent Stephon Heyer made the club. The loss of Dockery the result of very poor free agent pickups / choices during Gibbs last tour. Something that hardly ever happened in the past. One must assume that the Vinnie and Danny show were involved ... its why Marty completely excluded and ignore them. Its also mostly why he was fired after 1 year. RIGHT!?

"Peri, Dockery was the last O.L. they drafted that high (3rd round, 2003) until Reinhart this last draft. "

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

From Ross Tucker's column. Wonder who this unnamed player was.

The playoff push will come to a screeching halt this Sunday as teams that have fought furiously down the stretch find out whether they have a spot in the 12-team tournament. Some teams' Super Bowl hopes are about to vanish. Coaches' livelihoods will be at stake. Yet there's one surprising thing about some NFL players this time of year that fans and media alike are unaware of: Not all of the players really care if their team makes the playoffs.

It is strange, but true, and one of the secrets of the NFL I learned firsthand. It happened my rookie year, in 2001, under Redskins head coach Marty Schottenheimer. We were in the thick of the wild-card race coming down the stretch and I remarked to one of the veteran players about how awesome it would be if we could get in. He just shrugged.

"Don't you want to make the playoffs?" I asked.

"Nah, not really," he replied.

I was floored. I was a bright-eyed youngster loving every second of the NFL and his response brought me back to the harsh reality of the business. He went on to say he just wanted the season to be over so that he could head down to Florida for New Year's Eve. He showed up to the last game with a packed-to-the-gills U-Haul attached to his SUV. He was leaving right from the stadium, right after the game.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 23, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

dcsween - Most of those "just short" plays are going to moss/cooley/ARE. If the scheme has those three as your check downs who was the primary option? Thrash?!?

Posted by: NFeKPo | December 23, 2008 3:07 PM

Maybe the other two of the three ... or maybe he locked down on this check down ;)

[I feel dirty for using an emoticon, just dirty.]

Agreed about those additional yards after the catch. Not a strong point this season. OK, way un-strong point.

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Roy Jefferson was a very good WR, played first in B-more if I recall, even led the league in catches one year. In DC, opposite Charley Taylor, they were a lethal 1-2 punch with Sonny at QB. But Sonny was often hurt in those years and Kilmer simply didn't have the arm that Sonny had to take full advantage of those guys.

Still, seeing Sonny at his best on days like that one vs Miami, breathtaking stuff.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Now, they are going to have go high for OL and Linebacking/DE help. They have 3-4 DTs. They seem to be effective especially against the run. They have 2 OTs, Heyer and Samuels (now injury prone and very expensive). They need Guards and Centers but I would still go for the best OT available and train him to play guard as well. As they have with Heyer. I would follow with C/G. I would look for an athletic linebacker. Age is creeping in there as well ... consider McIntosh 5-7 years older because of those knees. Unless there is a Sean Taylor ... :)

No receivers. They ALWAYS FAIL when these are drafted ... including last year's draft in spite of Vinnie's protests!!! Why draft a guy with bad knees when you traded down to get the possible pick in the 2nd round! Because you are an idiot.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

You are right. Its a shame that that defense couldn't have been matched up with Taylor, Mitchell, and Smith when they were younger. Now that would have made Air Coryell look like a GA offense. Waaay back then they were inching toward 100 catches each!!!! Wish I could have seen them!


"In DC, opposite Charley Taylor, they were a lethal 1-2 punch with Sonny at QB."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

RE: Riggins contention that winning this game would hurt.

Dear John,

Would you have left the Jets for a losing team? Especially given the ultra conservative offensive philosophy espoused by the then coach and GM G. Allen? (AND JlC claims Gibbs is conservative ... madre mia!!!) NO WAY dude. You wanted to go to the Superbowl. You were tired of losing.

Don't you think today's free agents would think that way?

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Besides JZ is on record says he expects the WR to get that extra yard. hopefully he takes a look at that this offseason and extends those routes by 1.5 yards

Posted by: NFeKPo | December 23, 2008 3:07 PM

Thank you at least someone else on here pays attention, people keep trying to blame JC for that and it is the design of the plays

So it is zorns fault

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 23, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

CRAPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark Teixeira has signed an agreement with the Yankees, ESPN's Buster Olney is reporting

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

ONE more thing. Let Blache select the defensive draft picks he wants. NOT VINNIE.

Let Bugel select the OL types. NOT VINNIE.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I was floored. I was a bright-eyed youngster loving every second of the NFL and his response brought me back to the harsh reality of the business. He went on to say he just wanted the season to be over so that he could head down to Florida for New Year's Eve. He showed up to the last game with a packed-to-the-gills U-Haul attached to his SUV. He was leaving right from the stadium, right after the game.


Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 23, 2008 3:16 PM


So, who do you think that player was?

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 23, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"Mark Teixeira has signed an agreement with the Yankees, ESPN's Buster Olney is reporting"

Yankees ... there go the Nationals chances of winning this year ...

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

JC needs to learn to trust his weapons, ...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 1:44 PM

Plaxico had a problem with that ... too much trust ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 2:24 PM

There you go, blaming the weapon. Guns don't kill. People kill. Or, guns don't shoot themselves in the legs. People shoot themselves in their legs.

This message courtesy of the NRA.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Don't you want to make the playoffs?" I asked.

"Nah, not really," he replied.

I was floored. I was a bright-eyed youngster loving every second of the NFL and his response brought me back to the harsh reality of the business. He went on to say he just wanted the season to be over so that he could head down to Florida for New Year's Eve. He showed up to the last game with a packed-to-the-gills U-Haul attached to his SUV. He was leaving right from the stadium, right after the game.


Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 23, 2008 3:16 PM

Gardner, Rod?

Greg - That's messed up! So the Nats won't be having a joint news conference introducing both Manny and Texeria......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

ONE more thing. Let Blache select the defensive draft picks he wants. NOT VINNIE.

Let Bugel select the OL types. NOT VINNIE.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:30 PM |

1. How do you know this is not what happened last year?

2. Why do you think that Bugel and Blache know enough about the college prospects to make better decisions than Vinnie?

3. Do you think Blache and Bugel should also have their own weekly radio shows?

4. Should Blache and Bugel play racquetball with Dan Snyder?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

4th, Gardner Rod is a good guess....what an idiot that guy was / is....

Manny's price just went up, now that he's the only one worthwhile on the market.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

In the Skins SB year in '72(?), Sonny replaced Kilmer and in his 1st start vs philly, threw 3 picks on the 1st half. Yuck. Apparently that 1/2 took all the rust off. Beginning in the 2nd half vs philly and over the next 3 games, he would complete 75% of his passes and average over 12 yards per pass attempt(!). Then he stepped into the drain hole vs the jints, snapped his achilles and he was done til the next year.

Ironically, the game I recited vs Miami was also Sonny's first start of that season, and he also threw 3 picks in the 1st half of that game. But once the rust was off ... he was unreal.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

there go the Nationals chances of winning this year ...

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:31 PM |

Good. I hope the Nationals never win a game as long as the Snidely Lerners own the team.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Dude, the Lerners are worst then the Snyders.

Have you seen Landover Mall lately?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Vinny said Blatche told him, the DLineman that Vinny could have picked wouldn't help him at that time.

So blame Blatche for Vinny not picking up all the DEs you guys named that we could have had.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

This season was like 2 mini seasons. The first half, it looked like the offense was a lot more enterprising..more gadget plays, R-El passing...stuff that seemed to at least keep defenses a little off kilter. The second half was plain vanilla. Opposing defenses knew what was coming better than veteran audiences at a screening of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Dammit, Janet

Posted by: InRealAmerica | December 23, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Bartender, give me whatever Flounder is drinking with a splash of what RedDMV's having.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 23, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

What is festivus/Airing of Greivances thinggy? I now see it on the front page of WaPo.com.

Is this a 'cultural' type thing I don't know about?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

The 'play to win' is essential in every winning culture. its why the Skins need to play their hearts out in San Francisco.

But ... you can play hard AND give the rookies a chance to show what they can do.

If I was Zorn, I tell Devin Thomas that Sunday would be his day to shine. That balls would be flying in his direction as long as he was in the right place and fighting to make plays. Tell Malcolm Kelly that he needs to level some DBs with his blocks, that they'd be running power plays to his side. Tell Chad Reinhart, that Sunday would be his day to begin an NFL career on the right note, that the team needed to know how badly he wanted an NFL job. Tell Rob Jackson that he's getting 10-15 snaps and to make the most of them. Low picks don't get much chance to make an impression, but Sunday is his best shot.

Play to win, but lets see what the kids can do because that is the future and you need to know if some of these guys are players or duds.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Gardner is a good guess. Maybe Westbrook, Big Duddy Wilkinson? Kenard Lang went to school at Miami. I think one of the 2 WR's were probably the guy.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 23, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Bartender, give me whatever Flounder is drinking with a splash of what RedDMV's having.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 23, 2008 3:47 PM |

Are they drinking it, inhaling it, or injecting it?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

This has likely already been said to both Kelly and Thomas on more than one occasion with a great deal more on the line. Both in practice and especially in games they choked.

Remember what happened when they put Gesinger in the game? Rhinehart would be going against a Singletary team. Very different from Nolan's teams. A lot more intense, and focused. Very physical games.

I think Jackson has seen some action. But who do you pull? Evans who is having a great year? Maybe Carter ... but then what about Taylor who is finally back? I think he will get his snaps as Blache does like to rotate people in and out. As will their other rookie db ...


"If I was Zorn, I tell Devin Thomas that Sunday would be his day to shine. That balls would be flying in his direction as long as he was in the right place and fighting to make plays. Tell Malcolm Kelly that he needs to level some DBs with his blocks, that they'd be running power plays to his side. Tell Chad Reinhart, that Sunday would be his day to begin an NFL career on the right note, that the team needed to know how badly he wanted an NFL job. Tell Rob Jackson that he's getting 10-15 snaps and to make the most of them. Low picks don't get much chance to make an impression, but Sunday is his best shot."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Adam Dunn. Me thinks Ted Lerner has learned just how important it is to field a reasonable team capable of winning ... the Yankees were missing a 1B ... now they have him.


"Manny's price just went up, now that he's the only one worthwhile on the market."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Bartender, give me whatever Flounder is drinking with a splash of what RedDMV's having.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 23, 2008 3:47 PM |

Are they drinking it, inhaling it, or injecting it?

Posted by: talent_evaluator

If they are with Cindy, they are sniffing it.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

4th, Festivus is a "Seinfeld" reference.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

If I was Zorn, I tell Devin Thomas that Sunday would be his day to shine. That balls would be flying in his direction as long as he was in the right place and fighting to make plays. Tell Malcolm Kelly that he needs to level some DBs with his blocks, that they'd be running power plays to his side.+++

except that Zorn has been saying this each and every week in practice, and the rooks still can't get it right.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Dude, the Lerners are worst then the Snyders.

Have you seen Landover Mall lately?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

This is totally unfair. Perhaps in time but as of now Danny has worked 10 years and the Lerner's only 1 year. Let's give credit where credit is due.

Texiera to the Yankees....geeze I hate the yankees and Scott Boras

Posted by: Gweez | December 23, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Landover Mall? Dude what about Wheaton Plaza ... er scratch that, now Wheaton Mall. :)

Could be worst you know ... :)

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

A Rod, Teixiera, Burnett, and Sabathia. Infield is strong ... outfield a bit questionable. Pitching ... I wonder???

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse


And when Jason asked him why there was no pass rush ... he basically said you need athleticism (ala Jason Taylor) to achieve it. Then when Jason followed up on it he basically told him to shut it as he didn't want to lose his job.

Ahhhmmm do honestly believe Vinnie?

"Vinny said Blatche told him, the DLineman that Vinny could have picked wouldn't help him at that time.

So blame Blatche for Vinny not picking up all the DEs you guys named that we could have had.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 3:44 PM"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

One of the great calls this year was by Jon Miller while covering a SF Giants game with Adam Dunn at bat. Dunn crushed a ball that would have been out of most places, but SF has a huge area in right center, so it was a long out.

Went something like this

"Dunn Swings and hits it high and deep to right center. Going back is the rightfielder. Still going back and making the catch over 400 feet from home plate ... and Adam Dunn can't believe it wasn't a home run. And from the look on his face, you can tell he just crossed San Francisco off the list of places he'll consider when he's a free agent.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

The Lerners do not own Wheaton Plaza (As we all know it since it is not called Westfield Shopping Centre @ Wheaton). Westfield oens them.

Landover Mall is nothing but a pile of rubble with Sears left as the only thing standing. How could it be worse???.....

Gweez - Their goodwill has diminished over the just 2 years of ownership. At least Danny kept giving us a SuperBowl in MArch his 1st 5 years as an owner.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

peric, what you listed right there is nearly 700 million dollars in contracts.....that right there is what is wrong with baseball.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

"DLineman that Vinny could have picked"

That's just the point isn't it? Someone Vinnie wanted to pick. Let's ask this, who would Blache pick?

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Zorn has said those things to the rookies because they were in the playoff hunt and the rookies would not be a focal point for those games. In SF, they can be a focal point, if the coaches want that.

So far, I see the coaches only worried about the game, not the future. But the reality is, Sunday vs SF is about the future.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 4:07 PM | Report abuse

"The Lerners do not own Wheaton Plaza"

They used to. Had their "headquarters" there. Can they be worst "owners" than say the Marriots would be? Or say ABE POLIN? :)

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Vintage uniforms and bad moustaches this Sunday. Maybe the 49ers are hoping the Redskins defense will be laughing too much to stop them.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3789504

Posted by: tafka | December 23, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Note to DaREAL4TH: YOU MEAN BLACK FLINT MALL(FORMELY LANDOVER MALL!!!)LMAO!!.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 23, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

peric, what you listed right there is nearly 700 million dollars in contracts.....that right there is what is wrong with baseball.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 4:05 PM

No, baseball is what is wrong with baseball. Nothing ever happens. No cheerleaders. No tight ends or quarterbacks. Even Zorn's offense on a slow day in Cincinnati is more dynamic than the most exciting baseball game in Yankee Stadium.

Harumph.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Gweez - Their goodwill has diminished over the just 2 years of ownership. At least Danny kept giving us a SuperBowl in MArch his 1st 5 years as an owner.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

My point being the Lerner's and Kasten have said they won't go for a championship the first year they are building a franchise. Stan used to be my boss in ATL and while he's a massive Azz he produced a consistent winning product for some 15 years in Atlanta. At this point the Lerner's still deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Snyder is a proven loser who while "willing to spend the money" isn't willing to check his gargantuan ego at the door and let people who actually know football run the show.

Therefore give the man credit, he not only fails but he fails spectacularly. The Lerner's are no match.

Posted by: Gweez | December 23, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Blache spends every week getting his DL ready to play their game on Sunday. he does not spend all week looking at the college players figuring out who to draft. That job belong to Vinny and the player personnel group.

Would I want Blache's input? Sure. But I wouldn't expect him to know as much as my scouts

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Will all Vinnie's 2008 draft picks be back next year (excluding the punter who is already gone)?

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

That's just the point isn't it? Someone Vinnie wanted to pick. Let's ask this, who would Blache pick?

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 4:05 PM

When asked to Vinny why he didn't get a pass russher with the 21st pick. Vinny said he went to Blatche at who he would like and Blatche said none of those guys were 1st rounders worth taking.

At this point, I'll take it. I don't think it was Blatche look down knowing he was jumping on a grenande to save Vinny.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

At this point the Lerner's still deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Posted by: Gweez | December 23, 2008 4:11 PM |

No, Gweez, the District built them a $700 million stadium and then they refused to pay rent on it. They forfeited "the benefit of the doubt." They are scum.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Blatche is a NFL Defensive Coordinator. Scouts are, well, scouts. There is a very big difference in their abilities to assess player potential.

Posted by: tafka | December 23, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Will all Vinnie's 2008 draft picks be back next year (excluding the punter who is already gone)?

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 4:13 PM

They'll all be back for camp. But they won't all be on the opening day roster. Some of them will be replaced by guys from next year's draft and by free agents.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Note to DaREAL4TH: YOU MEAN BLACK FLINT MALL(FORMELY LANDOVER MALL!!!)LMAO!!.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 23, 2008 4:09 PM

Say what you want but in its heydey (70s very early 80s) Landover was one of the finest malls in this region and equal to Tysons in terms of quality of retailers with anchors Garfinckel's, Raleigh's, Woodies and Hechts. I don't blame the Lerners for Landover, I blame crack cocaine and the changing retail landscape. The neighborhood surrounding the mall deteriorated to the point that it was no longer safe to walk from your car to the stores. Raleigh's, Woodies and Garfinckel's - all local chains - couldn't keep with the national chains that moved into the Washington area (Nordstrom, Macy's, etc.)

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 23, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

No, Gweez, the District built them a $700 million stadium and then they refused to pay rent on it. They forfeited "the benefit of the doubt." They are scum.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse


No I don't mean the benefit of the doubt as good upstanding citizens. I mean as owners of a team. Cooke was not a great guy, the deBartelo family etc. were all crooks but good owners.

Posted by: Gweez | December 23, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

greg, it's okay. it's baseball not basketball. when are the yankees ever going to learn that they got their WS's with their own talent. arod, texeirea, sabathia, whatever...who cares. joe tore aint there anymore and rivera aint what he used to be, both of those were the reasons they won all those series.

you guys still have good pitching...you just need to add another good one and you'd be fine. and another big hitter infront of papi would be nice too.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

So TE, what's your prediction...

Which 2008 rookies are on the 2009 opening day roster and which ones are replaced?

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

No I don't mean the benefit of the doubt as good upstanding citizens. I mean as owners of a team. Cooke was not a great guy, the deBartelo family etc. were all crooks but good owners.

Posted by: Gweez | December 23, 2008 4:20 PM |

Okay. Good point. I break out in hives whenever the Lerners' name comes up.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

yeah landover sucks! but lh, why does it always get this bad for people to realize "you know what we're going in the wrong direction around here.". btw F jack johnson!

pg county politics sucks a$$!!! they've taken prime real estate and just ruined it. did you know that pg county has the highest per-capita income for a county in the nation that is predominantly black?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

deal, good call, when has trying to buy a world series ever worked for them. Oh well...when Burnett, and CC are both on the DL for long stretches, I'll be laughing.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 23, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Which 2008 rookies are on the 2009 opening day roster and which ones are replaced?

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 4:21 PM

Man, I don't have a clue. We haven't seen enough of them in games to know. All the 2nd rounders and the third rounder will still be here. Obviously, Horton.

It starts getting tricky with Tryon. We won't know until we see them in pre-season next year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I should scout for the Skins.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

jack johnson and the curry dude!!!! i forget my beloved leaders.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I should scout for the Skins.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 4:29 PM

You already do. They just haven't paid you for your recommendations. I can see why. They consist of all the juniors and seniors at the "University" of Georgia with numbers beside their names denoting which round to take them in.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

why did someone call it "black" flint mall? i haven't been in years and years but i doubt the moco's demographic has changed much. has it?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Tyler Ecker returns!!!

"To TE, what's your prediction...

Which 2008 rookies are on the 2009 opening day roster and which ones are replaced?"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

psp,

Ther are a lot of QB's that make plays down the field when nothing is open you can get a receiver that makes a play or pass interference. If you wait for a wide open receiver you will never throw deep.

Posted by: Flounder21


The play that amazed me was the pass McNabb threw to Jackson in the endzone. At the time of the throw, Jackson was shoulder to shoulder with Hall. By the time the ball got there Jackson had run about 6 feet behind Hall. McNabb can make that throw because he knows that his receiver will separate from the DB. JC has not seen any of his receivers make that kind of spurt this year. When he finally gets a receiver that can he too may make that throw.

Until then be thankful that JC does not throw to covered receivers, because one Redskin turnover on Sunday would have been the difference in winning and losing that game.

Posted by: driley | December 23, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

LH - The ever so historian of the good 'ol Prince George's County (Now only known as PG County).

From Lacrosse in High School to Landover Mall being a good place to shop with Garfinkel's, Woolworth & Lothrop, Maps, Such as...

(Man how has times changed, for the worse I may add)

Now a days, Landover is refered to as Landova by the youngstas.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

So TE, lets say that Horton, Davis, Brennan, Kelly, Thomas, and Rinehart are back on opening day. That's a fair guess.

Is a 60% retention (after year 1) pretty good for a draft?

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

did you know that pg county has the highest per-capita income for a county in the nation that is predominantly black?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 4:28 PM

That is misleading. I would say it is tru only outside of the beltway.

There are a lot of resident's living in poverty inside the beltway.

But yes, F JAck Johnson.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

dealer, Landover Mall was failing before mumbling Jack and Wayne were in office. The decline began chiefly under Parris Glendening. Curry did a great job running the County - he's even in the Redskins Ring of Honor. And although the County has the highest per capita income of many places in USA regardless of racial makeup, it still has large pockets of lower income families. (Thanks Mayor Williams)

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 23, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Jack Johnson aka Shaft in Africa.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 23, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

wapo and balSun will share content:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/23/AR2008122301161.html?hpid=topnews

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

"Doing more with less"

Man I miss that show...

Posted by: Gweez | December 23, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

TE = jealous of The Truth

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dcsween | December 23, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Geez, we're gonna need to focus hard on Sunday's game ... from the sfgate dt com site


If you look closely between the bars of his facemask Sunday, Shaun Hill will be sporting a cheesy mustache as a tribute to some of the more distinguished 49ers of the past in keeping with the throwback theme of the season's 16th game.

The 49ers will wear throwback uniforms against Washington at Candlestick Park, and a number of the players will be wearing mustaches.

"Today is Mustache Monday," Hill said a day after the 49ers rallied to beat the Rams 17-16 in St. Louis. "It's for the throwback game. Every day we go to meetings and we go by these beautiful pictures and we admire these guys' mustaches."

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

On facing walls of a hallway just off the locker room in Santa Clara are black and white photos of those 49ers who spent at least 10 years with the club. Some of the greats of the past had mustaches of varying quality, among them Kevin Fagan, Mel Phillips, Roger Craig (a classic caterpillar that thankfully was short-lived), Ray Wersching, Keith Fahnhorst, Jerry Rice (in the form of a goatee), Jimmy Johnson, the late John Ayers and Randy Cross.

"Most of us have been working on our mustaches," said Hill, who led the 49ers on two touchdown drives in the final seven minutes to beat the Rams. "I started four weeks ago. How bad is that?"

Hill said his offensive linemen instigated the 'staches in honor of their predecessors with an eye toward the throwback game in the finale.

"Every single day that we walk through here, you just can't help but admire John Ayers' mustache. It's awesome," Hill said.

Hill had to be informed that the one of his position predecessors, the greatest quarterback in franchise history, once had a mustache. Photos exist of a young Joe Montana sporting a Fu Manchu, although it is not on the wall of the facility.

More than the mere act of growing facial hair, however, the 'stache campaign is a good indicator of team camaraderie in the closing week of a fractured season for the 49ers, one that could end with the team winning two in a row, three of the last four and five of the last seven.

Hill said he was down on himself for throwing three interceptions against the Rams but the comeback win leavened his mood. And then ...

"I woke up very happy about that and to walk into work today and see all these glorious mustaches (on his teammates), that just brightens your day," he said.

The win gave Mike Singletary a 4-4 record as San Francisco's interim head coach with the throwback game to go. He has been appreciative of the effort his players have given him the last few weeks.

"When you look at the way these guys have been pushing, there's an emotional investment for these guys, and I couldn't be prouder of them the way they've been responding," said Singletary, who once had a mustache in his playing days with the Chicago Bears.

Singletary and Hill had one of those coach-quarterback moments Sunday in St. Louis that could come to define their relationship, should it continue with the former as permanent coach and the latter as the starter beyond this season.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

The coach was a mustache hair away from pulling his quarterback after his third interception, but Hill stood up for himself and Singletary relented after looking in the player's eyes.

"Body language tells you a lot," Singletary said. "It really doesn't matter what a guy says. Everything is in a guy's eyes."

Hill, in his Kansas-folksy way, likened his day in St. Louis to bass fishing. You can cast into a sweet spot with top-notch gear and years of experience but sometimes the fish don't bite.

"You're out there for three or four hours and you haven't caught a fish, and then all of a sudden, the big one hits," Hill said.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Don't you want to make the playoffs?" I asked.

"Nah, not really," he replied.

I was floored. I was a bright-eyed youngster loving every second of the NFL and his response brought me back to the harsh reality of the business. He went on to say he just wanted the season to be over so that he could head down to Florida for New Year's Eve. He showed up to the last game with a packed-to-the-gills U-Haul attached to his SUV. He was leaving right from the stadium, right after the game.


Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 23, 2008 3:16 PM

Going down to Florida = someone from the "U"

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Is a 60% retention (after year 1) pretty good for a draft?

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 4:40 PM |

I don't even know how to find numbers to compare it with other teams or even the 'Skins over time. I'd guess it's above average. But in the second year, retention isn't enough. These guys have to show up on the field and "make plays" or "execute" or whatever.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

But in the second year, retention isn't enough. These guys have to show up on the field and "make plays" or "execute" or whatever.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Yeah.

My point is that most of Vinny's 2008 picks were at positions that take 2-3 years to develop or bust...WR, QB, OL.

Not sure we can really bust Vinny's chops on this draft class (that punter did play like a stud in college) until the end of '09.

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

why did someone call it "black" flint mall? i haven't been in years and years but i doubt the moco's demographic has changed much. has it?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

I was there today...not very "black". At least not compared to ,say, PG Plaza.

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

lh, this whole time i was trying to figure out what curry did that made me put him together with JJ...and i can't think of it. i was working for a pg county politician back then...i've been away for 7-8 years...

4th, you're right. my wife and i always reminice about our carefree, good ol days in pg county. fun times! but that was slightly outside of the beltway. honestly i have had good times in pg county as a kid and as a college student and then as a working adult. except for one broken in car...what i can't believe is that someone would actually live in friggin laplata or ft. washington to come to work in dc when they can live in pg county.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

p1funk, you went to a mall??????????? wow!!! i went to costco today and people were fighting over parking spaces about 300 yards away from the store entrance. i'm not going anywhere near a mall or shopping center...

btw...still no gift...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Was Bruce Smith still playing? Was Neon on that team? I'd put those two at the head of the list.

They should be trying to win this game by 30 points. Zorn can give a fire-em-up speech about taking every single little frustration out on the Niners. The Lambs game. The Bungles game. The humiliation suffered at the hands of the Squealers. The Cowboys acting "all that" after squeaking by with a win. The lack of respect from the Egos after beating them TWICE! Fletcher getting dissed in Pro Bowl voting. How many wins difference are they from the GiAnts? And how much respect do they get? 5th ranked defense in the league! 3rd leading rusher!! And they GET NO RESPECT!!!

Earn some by going out there and showing EVERYONE.

Oh man... if Zorn plays this right

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

p1funk, you went to a mall??????????? wow!!! i went to costco today and people were fighting over parking spaces about 300 yards away from the store entrance. i'm not going anywhere near a mall or shopping center...

btw...still no gift...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

It was actually surprisingly easy to get in and out of - White Flint Mall, I mean. Of course White Flint Mall has never been much of a "destination" to the Upper MoCo folks...

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Not sure we can really bust Vinny's chops on this draft class (that punter did play like a stud in college) until the end of '09.

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 5:03 PM

The punter was injured. I still think he's going to have a good career for someone in the NFL. Right now he's on Green Bay's practice squad.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Earn some by going out there and showing EVERYONE.

Oh man... if Zorn plays this right

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 23, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

dpc's post brought up a point that I had not thought about re: the Skins game this week. London Fletcher will have an opportunity to outplay Patrick Willis and prove his worth...

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

I think the "black flint" reference was a play on the customer base served by Landover Mall compared to the mall in Rockville known as White Flint and its surrounding population.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 23, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

man the kids and maama are still sleeping...and i gotta go to dr's appt. ohh what to do, what to do, see if i leave before they wake up i'm in trouble cuz i'm not there to "help out"...but if i wait i miss my dr. appt. in case you're wondering the dr. appt. is a luxury and not a necessity.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Dealer - I didn't grow up in PG Couny. I've only been a resident for about 3 years now.

Grew Up in DC and Silver Spring (as you know). But, we use to head to PG destinations such as PG Plaza, Landova Mall (in the 80s), Glenarden Indoor Swiming Pool, Shakeys, and the Original Ledo's.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 23, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

The only reason the entire draft class is still on the roster is because of guess who??? V-I-N-N-I-E.
Except for Horton, they have been fairly useless and the team lost some guys who probably could have helped... possibly ending the losing skid they suffered through.

Unless Vinnie forces things Horton could be the only one left on the roster opening day next fall.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

dealer- I'm gonna stop at the day-spa place and get her a gift card on the way home.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 23, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

lh, ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

thanks! that one went way over my head...but white flint isn't bad. right? sorry i hardly ever cross the river these days...:)

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

TE, I'm still wondering about this debate of drafting "need" versus "value."

Basically, why pick a DLine/Oline kid in the first round, if he grades out at rounds 2-3, just because that is an area of need?

My gut tells me you take the best player on the board at your pick regardless of need. Glad I'm not a talent evaluator!

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

"Her" being my wife, not yours. In case that wasn't clear.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 23, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

TE = jealous of The Truth

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 23, 2008 4:46 PM |

This statement would be The Truth if you were actually getting paid by the 'Skins for those Go Dawgs scouting reports you keep filing.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Oh man now we are discussing PG County? Heck they let the library fall into ruin in Bowie. Who cares about a pseudo strip mall gone indoors ... :)

Best place in PG? Hmmmm probably down by the Rivuh where GG Liddy lives. :)

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

peri--

You have to at least keep Davis. He's gonna overtake Yoder in preseason next year. And with Thrash on the way out, might as well try to develop Thomas and Kelly for another year.

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Glad I'm not a talent evaluator!

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 5:16 PM

Nothing to it. Anyone can do it. The Post will register you as one, no questions asked.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

PG Community hospital ... you stab 'em we slab 'em. Don't come here if you want to get well.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

I think the "black flint" reference was a play on the customer base served by Landover Mall compared to the mall in Rockville known as White Flint and its surrounding population.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 23, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Gotcha. I'm one of those white folks going to White Flint (occasionally). To us, Landover Mall is known mostly as a FedEx parking lot on gamedays...

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

4-12!!!!!!!!!!! dude!!!!!!!!!! thank you!!!!!!!!!!! i will do the same.

and they're all up!

4th, i can't believe you grew up in dc. i know of only one person that grew up in dc. aside from sfskin but i don't "know" sfskin...i really envy city living, something we never got to do. maybe one day we'll up and move right next to sween.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

4-12, i never had any doubts about that. you'd have to be insane to take on two women at this point in life.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 23, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Kind of like Tyler Ecker? He was supposed to be the TE of the future too. HE HAS TO BLOCK like Donny Warren to impress Bugel. I don't think he is doing that yet. Pass catching appears less than adequate. Special teams? Far less than adequate.

Again, the only reason to keep these guys on the roster is special teams. Except for Horton, to some extent Moore, and Thomas ... no one else can even do that.


"You have to at least keep Davis. He's gonna overtake Yoder in preseason"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Best place in PG? Hmmmm probably down by the Rivuh where GG Liddy lives. :)

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse


Got caught by the PG cops late one night after stomping around Glen Dale Hospital with some buddies (long story)...they checked our drivers licenses and saw that we were from MoCo. They spent 5 minutes ripping on the MoCo Police Dept and then let us go...

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Put it this way:

Devin Thomas: 15 games.
Kareem Moore: 13 games.
Fred Davis: 10 games.

Malcom Kelly: 5 games.
Rob Jackson: 3 games.

Chad Rhinehart: 0 games.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

** Mall Post **

Somebody got shot at Wheaton Plaza (or whatever the heck it's called not) this p.m.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 23, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Who in 2001 would want to skip the playoffs to head to Florida?

Florida college players in 2001:

Donnell Bennett (FB) The U
Kenard Lang (DE) The U

I don't think I'm missing anyone.

Other 2001 possibles...

LaVar Arrington
Jeff George
Gardner, Rod
Michael Westbrook

Darrell Green

(just seeing if you are still paying attention)

Posted by: swowra | December 23, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

best thing in PG county?

The Awakening

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Kareem Moore will become a serviceable young player. With the exception of a few WR's this year, the typical Rookie WR doesn't have much impact.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | December 23, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad the Skins won, but if Desean Jackson catches one of the two long TD passes, or Asante Samuels makes the pick-six, it is a different story. The skins can't keep relying on their D. Imagine if they had a lead to play with how good they could be?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Now I know why the economy still sucks. Hank Paulson is siphoning off TARP money and sinking it into the Yankees payroll.

Adam

Posted by: wtf_is_up_with_wp_registration | December 23, 2008 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Michael Wilbon: You said it. Mason made a great catch, including perhaps the biggest one of the game. What don't the Ravens have? Okay, big offensive superstar divas, that's what...


anyone for a CP being a "diva" thread again?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

People were talking about good and great Skins QB's earlier and I didn't see Billy Kilmer's name mentioned. Just thought I'd throw it in there.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 23, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12oV4q-d6Jc&feature=related

I wish we had a speed rb like C Johnson of the Titans.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse


You mean Old Furnace Face? Toddle House Billy? The "lame duck" pass master? They guy who DUI'ed and crushed his legs turning himself from a pretty good scrambling QB into a "sitting duck"?
John Brodie's backup and competition? New Orlean Saint's first QB, followed by the father of Eli and Peyton, Archie? Sonny's drinking buddy? :)


"People were talking about good and great Skins QB's earlier and I didn't see Billy Kilmer's name mentioned. Just thought I'd throw it in there.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 23, 2008"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 7:32 PM | Report abuse


Sure I'll bite. Remember Steven Davis? Remember how our fearless owner ran him out of town because he would make "too much of a dent" in the salary cap ... and besides he didn't fit the
"new offense" brought in by Spurrier?

Hmmmm, welcome to Deja Vu. Portis absolutely DOES NOT FIT WCO (but Davis did by-the-way). So, our new coach obliged and fit his offense into Joe Gibb's rushing scheme. Just to make the same owner happy ... after all Portis is his drinking buddy ... and S. Davis apparently was not ...


"I wish we had a speed rb like C Johnson of the Titans.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008"

"anyone for a CP being a "diva" thread again?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

The only reason the entire draft class is still on the roster is because of guess who??? V-I-N-N-I-E.
Except for Horton, they have been fairly useless and the team lost some guys who probably could have helped... possibly ending the losing skid they suffered through.

Unless Vinnie forces things Horton could be the only one left on the roster opening day next fall.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 5:15 PM |

Periculum,

I was not going to comment on your post's because they are so off the wall, but now you are being stupid.

I'm sure Zorn wants all the 2 rounders gone, and Rinehart gone and the only reason they will stay is because of Vinny.

There are lots of great receivers in the NFL right now that stunk there first year.

So relax and let them have another season to show you what they can do.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 7:44 PM | Report abuse

yes, and Steven Davis had a few good years with the Panthers.
I also didn't know Billy Kilmer was used primarily at RB his first year in the NFL. Crazy since my memeories of him are not as a scrambler at all. I read where he had an auto accident and hurt his leg.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 23, 2008 7:44 PM | Report abuse

In the DC area now its probably the nicest place to live without a doubt. Everywhere else is probably too congested ... LOL Adam's Morgan wouldn't be bad ... Kalorama way too, too too ... well everything. Georgetown is a dump and there aren't enough good hangouts. Ah, well me, there's nothing like Schooner's Wharf, Hoppe's and the Ol' Cayucos Tavern by crackeeeeee....


"4th, i can't believe you grew up in dc. i know of only one person that grew up in dc. aside from sfskin but i don't "know" sfskin...i really envy city living,"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Well more kind of a "wishbone" QB ... they still used the old formations when he first came into the league. SF would alternate Brody (the passer) with Billy (the scrambler/runner). Eventually, Brody won the job outright and Billy ended up in New Orleans with the new expansion franchise.


"I also didn't know Billy Kilmer was used primarily at RB his first year in the NFL. Crazy since my memeories of him are not as a scrambler at all. I read where he had an auto accident and hurt his leg."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Per,

It's funny how you think Gibbs was some master at personel, you list some good draft picks he made.

What about all the crappy FA's he braught in, oh thats right anything bad while Gibbs was in charge was Vinny/Dan and anything good was Gibbs.

Oh and Gibbs let Dockery go, despite what you believe Gibbs had total control, Danny would always side with Gibbs over Vinny. He probably still whacks it to Gibbs's picture every night.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 7:55 PM | Report abuse

We had a number here ... and THEY were first rounders. Ahhh me, how soon they forget ...

Desmond Howard.
Michael Westbrook.
Rod Gardner.

And how many years before THEY were deemed to be useless? I see Devin Thomas on specials. Kelly might have potential but with those knees?????

And I'm stupid? What idiot would trade down from the 1st round to draft a wide out with bad knees?

"There are lots of great receivers in the NFL right now that stunk there first year.

So relax and let them have another season to show you what they can do."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Per,

None of those picks you listed were picked by Vinny, and just because they sucked does not mean these receivers will suck.

Jerry Rice was not very good his rookie season, he turned out OK.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse


I think Danny would side with Danny (and Vinnie would side with Danny) over Gibbs.

Sorry, I saw an example of Snyder without any control. Under Schottenheimer. Things were sufficiently different under Gibbs when compared to that year (plus he past years in DC) to convince me that everything wasn't on the up-and-up. Gibbs probably spent more time keeping his owner's renowned temper under control than coaching the team. I remember the quote from LaVernius Coles about the conversation he had with Snidely Owl when he was on his way to the Jets.

Sorry, I am not that gullible. I believe that to be a major reason for Gibbs retirement. Danny, Vinnie, the politics (he fired Williams and Saunders after Gibbs left), add in the very, very sad untimely death of Sean Taylor. I think I would retire too.


"despite what you believe Gibbs had total control, Danny would always side with Gibbs over Vinny."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 8:01 PM | Report abuse


True. But shall I list the lower rounders he did pick? :) BAD KNEES!! Already!!! On a receiver!! They need their wheels!!

Maybe Thomas will make a decent backup in the mold of ARE. That's as far as I think he will go. He doesn't seem to be very smart. Not unlike ex-Twerp Vernon Davis.

"None of those picks you listed were picked by Vinny, and just because they sucked does not mean these receivers will suck."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

True. But shall I list the lower rounders he did pick? :) BAD KNEES!! Already!!! On a receiver!! They need their wheels!!

Maybe Thomas will make a decent backup in the mold of ARE. That's as far as I think he will go. He doesn't seem to be very smart. Not unlike ex-Twerp Vernon Davis.

"None of those picks you listed were picked by Vinny, and just because they sucked does not mean these receivers will suck."

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 8:04 PM |

Since you are so good at predicting the future, and judging football talent maybe you should send your resume out for a GM job instead of wasting your time posting on here.

The Lions could use your talents.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Gibbs ever, ever let a good offensive line go ... until he ran into Vinnie and Danny's salary cap problems. Especially the dead weight cap. I think he was forced. IN the case of Antonio Pierce he admitted that was a mistake on his part. He should have fought to keep him. But he wasn't quite used to the salary cap yet. He was just starting on Gibbs 2.0.

Gibbs was not a "master personnel" man. He did after all choose Desmond Howard. But THAT guy won the MVP for the Packers as a return man!!! He wasn't a total waste like the others listed!

I think Gibbs knows good people, he knows character. He may not be the best at that part of the game but I believe he is vastly better than the Vinnie and Danny show.


"Oh and Gibbs let Dockery go, despite what you believe Gibbs had total control,"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

1st round choices under JOE Gibbs.

Sean Taylor, La Ron Landry, Carlos Rogers.
Gibbs went with Greg Williams on those.

2nd round in 2006 Rocky McIntosh ...
another one with bad knees ... sigh ...

Do you think they were wasted?

Compare this to Patrick Ramsay in the 1st, and in the SECOND ROUND the following year, Taylor Jacobs!!!! With Vinnie!!!

Under Marty, Rod Gardner and Fred Smoot.

as QuickSilver Messenger Service sang ...
"who do you trust?"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Oh and lest we forget in the 1st round FOLLOWING Carlos Rogers ... Jason Campbell.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs was pretty damned good in the upper rounds ... the lower rounds purportedly belonged mostly to Vinnie ... at least that's what they said.

Clearly the Patriots (for one) did much better especially in the lower rounds. But I think the Skins did about as well as you possibly could in the upper rounds while Gibbs was here.

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

Per,

Great but how about all the picks Gibbs wasted on FA's that sucked.

3rd and 4th for Lloyd

3rd for Duckett who got like 20 carries.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Anyone recall Billy Kilmer's most famous play?


Kilmer was a good, not great QB, who did have the intangible leadership thing going for him. No question his best day, and to this day still one of my favorite Skins games of all time, was the 26-3 pounding of dal in the '72 NFC Championship game. Those of us old timers will recall what was a total and complete a$$ whupping, beat down, annihilation kind of destruction it was. vs dallas :)

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

And also a 3rd for Brunell and a huge contract for a QB no one else wanted, when they he could have been picked up once Jacksonville cut him.

Of course Gibbs did all the great picks and Vinny all the bad, if Vinny is so bad at late round picks then what about Horton, Golston and Montgomery they are doing very well.

You forgot to mention Gibbs traded up and wasted picks for Rocky and his knees.

He also traded up and wasted picks on JC who no other team was going to select befor the third round.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm amazed. There are 83 posts on this thread. 47 of the posts are signed by some half-wit "periculum." I think we should hit the "Report Abuse" button. The guy's taken over the blog, talking to himself.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 8:38 PM | Report abuse

TE,

The guy was driving me nuts I had to say something.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2008 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Flounder,

Maybe we should form a support group for guys who have been driven crazy by perdiculump? "You'll be alright, brother. Breathe deep. It's not your fault."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 8:57 PM | Report abuse

The sad truth is that most Redskin drafts have ranged from average to bad. They generally average one or two good players and sometimes a marginal player or two. In my opinion the last really good draft (top to bottom) was in 1981 (6 starters):

Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Mark May T Pittsburgh
3 69 Russ Grimm G Pittsburgh
4 90 Tom Flick QB Washington
5 119 Dexter Manley DE Oklahoma State
5 132 Gary Sayre -- Cameron
6 148 Larry Kubin LB Penn State
8 201 Charlie Brown WR South Carolina State
9 231 Darryl Grant DT Rice
10 257 Phil Kessel -- Northern Michigan
10 267 Allan Kennedy T Washington State
11 284 Jerry Hill -- North Alabama
12 314 Clint Didier TE Portland State

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 23, 2008 9:00 PM | Report abuse

nice pull lifelong.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 9:04 PM | Report abuse

why are so many of these post about JC? don't you people know there are 11 players on offense.

Randle El, Thomas, Cooley and Portis all had dropped passes. Yet JC still completes 55% of his passes despite a porous OL that can't even run block anymore.

This team has infrastructure issues that need to be tended to. OL and DL. This team has WR drafted as high picks that are not contributing. This team has changed passing offenses 3 times in 4 years. JC is not the problem.

For those old enough to remember, we won Super Bowls with Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, and Joe Theismann. None of them are elite QBs.

Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Dan Fouts have something in common. They are elite QBs who pitched it all over the field and never won a super bowl.

But Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Phil Simms, Jim Hostetler, and Jim McMahon have rings.

Posted by: ProfessorWrightBSU | December 23, 2008 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Caps baby! down 4-0...win 5-1 in OT!

Ovie rulz
all other D.C. sports figures drool!!!

(OK not really...just pumped from exciting win...)

(Except Ovie does rule...and curently best thing about D.C. sports bar none.)

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Dan Fouts have something in common. They are elite QBs who pitched it all over the field and never won a super bowl.

But Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Phil Simms, Jim Hostetler, and Jim McMahon have rings.

Posted by: ProfessorWrightBSU | December 23, 2008 9:24 PM

And Elway, Young, Manning, Brady, Namath, etc. are all elite QBs with rings.

And, if you'd like, you can make up a really long list of non-elite QB's without rings: Wuerfel, Boller, Kitna, Shuler, Frerotte, Carr, Harrington, Ramsey, Carter, Couch, Smith, McNown, etc.

On balance, I think we'd be better off with an elite QB than with a journeyman.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

professor,

Would you not say Theisman played at an elite level for a 3-5 year stretch? Did lead a team that set single season high in offensive production at the time.

Rypien, well he was certainly elite from game 1-19 in 92 season....he was out of his mind...

also phil simms...bad example of "average" QB...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Caps baby! down 4-0...win 5-1 in OT!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 9:39 PM

Okay, I don't follow hockey, but I think someone needs to investigate the refs on this one. How did they take away all those goals? Someone's on the take.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 9:52 PM | Report abuse

My call on personnel during the Gibbs era. Modestly positive.

He did improve the character of the team, which allowed it to compete in close games and during the ST21 tragedy. There were plenty of major mistakes (Arch, Duckett, Lloyd), but also some solid calls (ST21, LaRon, Carlos, Campbell, Fletcher). The cap was messed up, and as team prez, he owned that problem.

Also worth noting on the personnel side, Gibbs did bring in quality coaches, especially on defense. On the downside, he kept Cerrato.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

whoops TE...5-4

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

TE, was wondering the same thing. But then I realized the refs probably went to instant replay and took away a FG from the Rangers

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

sorry i was geeked up.....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Theismann was a good QB who had a few excellent years. Rypien had about 3 excellent years, including 1991, when he was en fuego. The rest of Rypien's career was actually pretty sad. Williams was a good QB in bad situation in Tampa. I'm not sure he ever had an excellent year, but he did play the best 15 minutes of football in the history of football.

The answer to the Kilmer question ... Kilmer fumbled the ball which was recovered by Jim Marshall of the Vikes ... who ran 60 yards ... the wrong way.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 10:00 PM | Report abuse

On the downside, he kept Cerrato.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 9:53 PM

If he was half a man, Gibbs would have had Cerrato executed.

I'm sure he found productive work for Vinnie that was within his zone of competence.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 10:00 PM | Report abuse

sorry i was geeked up.....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 9:58 PM

Geeked up? That's not good enough, CL. This is Redskins Insider. Anything less than perfection and you have to stop posting for two weeks. We'll overlook it this time, but don't let this happen again.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

The whole dichotomy of all QBS being either "average" or "elite" is so lamely false....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

The whole dichotomy of all QBS being either "average" or "elite" is so lamely false....

Posted by: chrislarry

Sorry CL, maybe its the sleep deprivation, but that post was below average


Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 10:07 PM | Report abuse

why? I just think its simplistic to place QBs in to those two simple categories....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 23, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

CL, it must be the sleep thing. There are many categories other than average and elite.

For example, very average.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

CL, zeke,

I can see either side of this one, although I'm quitting after this post.

On the one hand -- the Zeke hand -- it's pretty easy to sort most quarterbacks into one or the other category -- elite, or (what?) banal? John Elway, Patrick Ramsey. No sweat.

On the other hand -- the CL hand -- there's a bunch of QBs who could go either way (Phil Simms) depending on how you define or draw the line. And, since its not obvious where you set the line, then it becomes kind of contentious or as CL's put it, "lamely false."

I guess it depends on how many QB's are easily sorted -- John Elway, Patrick Ramsey -- and how many lead to arguments.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 10:27 PM | Report abuse

What are you quitting, TE?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Any Rockford Files fans on RI?

Posted by: rickyroge | December 23, 2008 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Nice unrestricted on Cerrato/Zorn.
I agree that we gotta stick with Zorn, & I like what he's been doing. Cerrato tho seems weird about the whole thing. All of his words are so guarded. I havn't read the interviews carefully, but it seems like he doesn't want to just come out and be like, "We love what Zorn is doing for this team and we're behind him all the way". Where's the love? I ask you where's the love?

Granted public statements take time, you don't want to say anything you'll regret. But Snyder/Cerrato know that this is on everyone's mind and they just "haven't discussed it"? The wealthiest NFL franchise put a rookie head coach fully in charged of over $90 million worth of high-performance players and "we haven't discussed it"? You can't be ambiguous about this. Either we're behind him, we're not, or no comment. I worry that they have their eyes set on luring back some vet like Cowher or Fassel, so they don't want to say anything they'll regret. But the thought of replacing Zorn even for one of those greats disgusts me. Just work with what you have.

Zorn did a decent enough job. Coming into this season we had small receivers who were meant, under Gibbs, to go deep. And suddenly they have to catch balls after a few yards, run all sorts of new routes, and try to get by in a system demanding more and bigger receivers. Zorn did what he could with the situation, and I'm glad I didn't have to sit thru a losing season.

I do fault Zorn for not developing more weapons though. That's what really killed us, because once our offense became stale and predictable we needed more to attack with. If we'd used Sellers and Betts more often like we did last game the offense would've looked sharper over the past few weeks. Cooley's role was inconsistent. And there was no reason to neglect the new pass catchers like we did. It'd have been one thing if we were doing fine without them, or if one of them wasn't that sharp, or if whenever they caught the ball they ran to our own endzone or something. But come the end of the season and you have 2-3 big healthy guys not even partially integrated into a system, that's on him.

Posted by: Josh7 | December 24, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Surely, you jest. Just making up for all the dimwits with the Priest Holmes cracks ... and making up for all the lost time .. :) Might have to do with the fact that I used to live right near the "sniper's" main hangout close to nearby Aspen HIll.

"I'm amazed. There are 83 posts on this thread. 47 of the posts are signed by some half-wit "periculum." I think we should hit the "Report Abuse" button. The guy's taken over the blog, talking to himself.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 23, 2008 8:38 PM "

Posted by: periculum | December 24, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse

I'm not convinced that was Gibbs. Wasn't Duckett's agent Rosenhaus? Again, how could Gibbs/Williams and staff pick one of the best defensive backfields in football mostly out of the draft. Go from almost zero (under Spurrier) with all the cap issues to the playoffs. Yet go for guys like Lloyd and Duckett?

C'mon guys doesn't that sound more like a certain owner putting his 2 cents in? Along with a certain hamster. It sure sounds more like Snidely Owl and Vinnster to me.

"Per,

Great but how about all the picks Gibbs wasted on FA's that sucked.
3rd and 4th for Lloyd
3rd for Duckett who got like 20 carries."

Posted by: periculum | December 24, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse

"4th, i can't believe you grew up in dc. i know of only one person that grew up in dc. aside from sfskin but i don't "know" sfskin...i really envy city living,"

Posted by: periculum | December 23, 2008 7:49 PM

It all depends on where you live, but yeah I agree for the most part. That's why moms moved us to SS....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 24, 2008 4:05 AM | Report abuse

I'm not convinced that was Gibbs. Wasn't Duckett's agent Rosenhaus? Again, how could Gibbs/Williams and staff pick one of the best defensive backfields in football mostly out of the draft. Go from almost zero (under Spurrier) with all the cap issues to the playoffs. Yet go for guys like Lloyd and Duckett?

C'mon guys doesn't that sound more like a certain owner putting his 2 cents in? Along with a certain hamster. It sure sounds more like Snidely Owl and Vinnster to me.

"Per,

Great but how about all the picks Gibbs wasted on FA's that sucked.
3rd and 4th for Lloyd
3rd for Duckett who got like 20 carries."

Posted by: periculum | December 24, 2008 12:34 AM |

This statement shows me you are a complete jacka$$, and I will no longer argue any point with you because you make no sense.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 24, 2008 6:09 AM | Report abuse

This statement shows me you are a complete jacka$$, and I will no longer argue any point with you because you make no sense.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 24, 2008 6:09 AM

Picky, picky. If you only argue with people who make sense up here, you won't find many people to argue with. This place works best for people who take pleasure in beating their heads against brick walls, kicking steel girders, or jumping in front of trucks on the interstate.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 24, 2008 6:40 AM | Report abuse

TE,

Most people actually make sense when they argue or atleast have some facts, that guy is just an idiot who makes sh!t up.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 24, 2008 6:47 AM | Report abuse

flounder,

That's precicely the reason I stopped arguing with myself.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 24, 2008 6:50 AM | Report abuse

This place works best for people who take pleasure in beating their heads against brick walls, kicking steel girders, or jumping in front of trucks on the interstate.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 24, 2008 6:40 AM

Goes without saying, doesn't it T_E? After all, we ARE Redskins fans...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 24, 2008 6:51 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe I have to work today, hopefully we will be able to leave two hours early that is the norm the day before a holiday.

Off Friday though that will be nice, I get to teach my daughters how to use the Wii they got for Christmas.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 24, 2008 6:56 AM | Report abuse

Yeah Flounder, don't know where you live but up here in PA it's TREACHEROUS on the roads. I'm off tomorrow and Friday and not going ANYWHERE if I can help it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 24, 2008 7:22 AM | Report abuse

Brown,

I live 20 miles outside DC and we have had nothing so far, it hasn't even snowed here yet, except for a couple of dustings.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 24, 2008 7:30 AM | Report abuse

a dusting guys?? Really?? I have so much friggin snow at my house, I'm going to start including some of it when I mail out Bonus Points as Christmas gifts...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 24, 2008 8:04 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

For some reason everything has missed us, it's great to see all the tax money going out the window when the plow trucks are sitting on the side of the highway all night and never do anything.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 24, 2008 8:11 AM | Report abuse

Good morning, merry Christmas Eve. Move along....Skins will be practicing today and tomorrow and we'll have updates. Wouldn't you rather be with us than with, like such as, your family?

Posted by: Cindy Boren | December 24, 2008 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Beep Beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 24, 2008 8:15 AM | Report abuse

flounder1 writes: "I guess everybody in the league should play the Tampa 2 because accroding to JC it is impossible to throw down the field on it. JC has to realize that WR's are not going to be running wide open in this league you have to make tight throws"

Well, that is the strength of the Tampa 2 -- it's difficult to go downfield without risking an INT. But it does allow you to throw underneath, and also you can run against it for first downs.

As far as throwing tight, Campbell is accurate. That's his best attribute, more than a strong arm. But he doesn't make the sort of throws into coverage that result in interceptions. Most of his turnovers have come from fumbles.

He's either a conservative QB by nature, or they're instructing him to throw that way. About the only criticism you hear from Zorn is that he doesn't get rid of the ball fast enough. That's valid; a quicker throw gives the receiver a better chance coming out of his break.

If you look at QBs who take risks and throw into coverage, they have higher rates of INTs. And INTs are very damaging to W-L records.

If you look at this season, when the Skins weren't turning the ball over, they won. Maybe not by much, but they won. When TOs increased in the second half, they struggled. Stayed close, but struggled.

Strong-armed QBs who take risks are a mixed blessing. Ask the Jets.

Posted by: Samson151 | December 24, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

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