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Posted at 10:01 AM ET, 12/23/2010

Healthy Jammal Brown: 'I'm becoming my old self'

By Jason Reid

For much of the season, right tackle Jammal Brown has not performed as effectively as the Redskins envisioned when they traded a conditional third-round pick to New Orleans for the two-time Pro Bowler.

Brown missed the entire 2009 season after having two surgeries in two weeks to repair a sports hernia and a torn labrum. The Redskins expected Brown to start slowly while still recovering from the groin and hip problems, but the process was much longer than they expected.

There were rumblings within the organization that the Redskins had made a mistake, but things have changed.

With his hip pain -- Brown's biggest problem this season -- decreasing significantly in recent weeks, the six-year veteran recently has displayed the athleticism and toughness Redskins coaches noticed on game film during his first four seasons with the Saints. Brown is coming off a solid performance against Dallas star linebacker DeMarcus Ware in a 33-30 loss, and the Redskins are optimistic that Brown is finally reverting to form as the season closes.


"He's made tremendous strides throughout the season," Coach Mike Shanahan said recently. "I'd say at the halfway mark, you couldn't tell if he was going to get well. And then it just happened.

"Like one day, you felt like the cartilage, or maybe some of the area in his groin, felt much better, like it loosened up. He might have popped some scar tissue. And currently, he's playing at a much better level. He feels good about himself, and so do we."

Brown said he was slowed by the pain of scar tissue from his hip surgery. During the preseason, Brown consulted with a specialist who told him "that once that scar tissue break up, it's gonna start feeling a lot better. And I have to say, ever since that Detroit game [in Week 8], it's just been getting better and better. I'm becoming my old self. I'm starting to be the old me."

The Saints selected Brown, widely considered the nation's top offensive lineman during his senior season at Oklahoma, with the 13th overall pick in the 2005 draft. After beginning his pro career on the right side, Brown became a Pro Bowler after being switched to left tackle in his second season.

With the fourth overall pick in the 2010 draft, Washington selected Oklahoma left tackle Trent Williams. The Redskins moved Brown back to right tackle, where he has struggled this season, both because of his pain and unfamiliarity with Shanahan's zone blocking scheme.

After 14 games, including 13 starts, Brown said he's finding his groove again.

"Yes, now I do" feel comfortable on the right side, Brown said. "And the biggest thing was ... it's my left hip. When I was at left tackle, I was pressing of my right hip, so I was able to play a whole year [2008] with a torn labrum.

"When I got here they moved me to right tackle, so now I'm putting all that weight on my left hip. And that's what was hurting it more. But after I got through that, everything's been good. I feel good."

With four new starters along the offensive line from last season, the group was going to need time to develop chemistry. Although the Redskins experienced unacceptable individual breakdowns in pass coverage against the Cowboys, leading to quarterback Rex Grossman being pressure and sacked, the coaching staff believes the line, including Brown, has made significant progress.

Williams has shown the potential to group for a decade or so, and it seems offensive line coach Chris Foerster has some pieces with which to build. But will Brown be among the group moving forward?

He signed a one-year tender for the 2010 season and is not under contract in 2011.

"Well, there's a lot of people with contracts [that] are up," Shanahan said. "For obvious reasons, we don't get into it. But we're going to try to sign the people that we feel can help us in the long run, help us win and win at a high level."

By Jason Reid  | December 23, 2010; 10:01 AM ET
Categories:  Jammal Brown  
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Next: Reed Doughty to meet with concussion specialist

Comments

6. The tired line of "two SBs on the backs of Elway & Davis."

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 22, 2010 9:09 PM

Why is this tired? The facts seem to bear it out:

Shanahan coaching record:

LA Raiders: 8-12

Broncos (4 years + Elway/Davis): 47-17
(7-1 playoff record, 2 SBs)

Broncos (10 years - Elway/Davis): 91-69
(1-3 playoff record)

Skins: 5-8


(Note: Elway played in 3 Super Bowls without Shanahan, and without Davis.)


Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

I'd say after committing what was essentially a year of rehabilitation, the Redskins should definitely get this guy under contract. Someone on here said the team shouldn't draft an offensive lineman in the first round of the draft since the only position worth investing a first rounder is left tackle, but I disagree. The team could draft a blue chip tackle while resigning Brown. The new kid could learn the ropes at right tackle while the team moves Brown inside to guard. This gives them a lot of flexibility moving forward.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 23, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

wonder how malcolm kelly's hamstring is doing.....

i'm sure if he played we be super bowl bound and vinny would be vindicated.....

Posted by: fnkyniedls | December 23, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

wonder how malcolm kelly's hamstring is doing.....

i'm sure if he played we be super bowl bound and vinny would be vindicated.....

Posted by: fnkyniedls | December 23, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

wonder how malcolm kelly's hamstring is doing.....

i'm sure if he played we be super bowl bound and vinny would be vindicated.....

Posted by: fnkyniedls | December 23, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Why is this tired? The facts seem to bear it out:

Shanahan coaching record:

LA Raiders: 8-12

Broncos (4 years + Elway/Davis): 47-17
(7-1 playoff record, 2 SBs)

Broncos (10 years - Elway/Davis): 91-69
(1-3 playoff record)

Skins: 5-8


(Note: Elway played in 3 Super Bowls without Shanahan, and without Davis.)

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:05 AM |

Did Elway win any of those SB's with out Shanny? NO

Who drafted Davis and who's scheme finally put the team over the top in the 3rd year?

SHANNY

91-69 after Elway/Davis I would take that over the sh-t the Skins did in those same 10 years.

How is the golden boy doing who replced Shanny, not to good.

Alan you act like this was a easy clean and fix since you are so smart from behing your cubicle what should have happened instead of hiring Shanny?

All you do is b-tch but never offer any solutions.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

6. The tired line of "two SBs on the backs of Elway & Davis."

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 22, 2010 9:09 PM

Why is this tired? The facts seem to bear it out:

Shanahan coaching record:

LA Raiders: 8-12

Broncos (4 years + Elway/Davis): 47-17
(7-1 playoff record, 2 SBs)

Broncos (10 years - Elway/Davis): 91-69
(1-3 playoff record)

Skins: 5-8


(Note: Elway played in 3 Super Bowls without Shanahan, and without Davis.)


Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:05 AM
===================
Agreed Alan4.. how much of a genius is HC Belichick without Brady?

35-47 W-L in cleveland with Kosar.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | December 23, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Cam.

Newton.

STAMPED.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 23, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

wonder how malcolm kelly's hamstring is doing.....

i'm sure if he played we be super bowl bound and vinny would be vindicated.....

Posted by: fnkyniedls | December 23, 2010 10:09 AM

Well...as to part one...he said he wishes he wasn't IR'd...because he would be tearing it up right now...not sure if meant the football field...or his hamstrings.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 23, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21,

I'm not sure how presenting facts amounts b!tiching.

But I won't deny I think there have been a series of poor decisions, which led us to Shanahan.

Wipe those eyes, fishboy, and you might recall I thought hiring Gregg Williams was the right thing to do after Gibbs.

But if you're going to hire Zorn instead, stand by him for more than 2 seasons and give him the authority and freedom you're giving Shanahan now.

Shanahan's first 2 years looked a lot like Zorn's--and both were fired.

I'll say Shanahan improved as a coach, so why can't we say Zorn might have improved as a coach?

We'll never know, because now we're back to the Big Name Theory. Hiring Shanahan and McNabb were classic Snyder, and sorry if you don't agree with me on that. But I thought McNabb was a mistake (I seem to be right), and I think Shanahan will be a disappointment here because he doesn't have the tools here he had on the Elway/Davis Broncos.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: edvar | December 23, 2010 9:59 AM

I like your thinking here. That strategy can work particularly if the Skins address the Oline in FA. BTW, I think they have to address at least one of the lines in the FA market. They can't go into the draft looking for starters for 80% of the Dline and Oline. Speaking of the 5th round, I'd like to throw a D1 AA player from Villanova...Ben Ijalana. He's their starting LT, but probably fits better at guard since he's 6-4. He's 320, but he's still mobile enough and he's solid in pass pro. Probably a backup his first couple of years, but you could do worse.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

A 3rd rounder for a one year a right tackle? Another short-sighted wasted drafted pick.

Posted by: jgllo | December 23, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

(Note: Elway played in 3 Super Bowls without Shanahan and lost them all.)

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:05 AM


There...fixed it for ya...

Look, I'm as mad at Shanahan as anyone up here but let's not play revisionist history...surely you understand how stupid it is to try and begrudge a coach for winning two SBs with a HoF QB. Nobody does this to Lombardi or Jimmy Johnson or Mike Holmgren so I don't get why Shanahan should be any different. Very few coaches in NFL history have multiple SBs and Shanahan is in that fraternity. To hate on that because he had a couple great players is criminally insane.

Not only is it insane, it's just blatantly wrong...fact of the matter is, Elway was the guy who "couldn't win the big one" until Shanahan came along and Shanahan hasn't won anything before or since. If anything, they needed each other equally...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

The new kid could learn the ropes at right tackle while the team moves Brown inside to guard. This gives them a lot of flexibility moving forward.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 23, 2010 10:07 AM |

I'd rather have Brown be the swing tackle instead of Heyer or a rookie just in case Williams goes down. Having Brown learn the guard position, particularly with Montgomery gaining experience there might not be the best use of resources.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan's first 2 years looked a lot like Zorn's--and both were fired.

I'll say Shanahan improved as a coach, so why can't we say Zorn might have improved as a coach?

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:23 AM


Wow...just wow.

So by that logic, if you give Jim Zorn a guy like Tom Brady, he could easily replicate what Belichick has done in NE?

You'll excuse me if I call bullsh*t on that one...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Bottom Line:
In 16 seasons, Elway got to 5 Super Bowls.

In 17 seasons, Shanahan gets to 2 Super Bowls and gets fired twice (so far).

You can't win 'em if you don't get there, and Elway's team already knew how to get there.


So we can honestly say Elway got to the Super Bowl without Shanahan, but Shahanah never got to a Super Bowl without Elway. That fact is indisputable.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

TWISI, no chance Brown accepts a demotion like that...dude will go elsewhere if he can't start here. Plus there's the little problem of not having enough tackle depth to be so fortunate as to have Brown on the bench...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

@ brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:34 AM

You're reaching. All I said is Zorn might have improved as a coach after a bad 2 seasons. Didn't Shanahan?

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

(Note: Elway played in 3 Super Bowls without Shanahan and lost them all.)

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:05 AM


There...fixed it for ya...


Not only is it insane, it's just blatantly wrong...fact of the matter is, Elway was the guy who "couldn't win the big one" until Shanahan came along and Shanahan hasn't won anything before or since. If anything, they needed each other equally...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:28 AM
============


The difference in Elway "without Shanahan" and "with Shanahan" was the difference in the OLine Shanahan put together in front of Elway.
Without that OLine, Elway was a great QB that couldnt get to his 2nd Read without having to scramble.. However, with the "Shanahan built OLine" Elway was the same great QB that could now stay in the pocket and reach his 3rd or even 4th progression/read.
Even JC looks like a better QB in Oakland with that extra second a good OLine provides.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | December 23, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

This is ridic. For the last 5 seasons we've been asking for a guy to take the reins.

You finally have a HC that does it & you cry like f'n babies.

Quit chafin' beyotdches.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 23, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

TWISI, no chance Brown accepts a demotion like that...dude will go elsewhere if he can't start here. Plus there's the little problem of not having enough tackle depth to be so fortunate as to have Brown on the bench...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:37 AM

I'm not saying Brown's not the starting RT. What I'm saying is that he'd be the 2nd string LT, instead of Heyer or a rookie. With the way Brown has played the last 2 to 3 games, it'd be silly for the Skins to demote him, if Browne resigns with the team. BTW, I'd still go after Ryan Harris to fill the backup RT spot and perhaps as a RG.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

repost..as I was saying:

This is really not a case where we need stats to prove something -- no one disagrees that the offensive line sucks.

Still, it's funny to see fans arguing to draft a wide receiver or running back. The Skins need to draft offensive linemen early and often. The only position that is set is left tackle -- Brown can't be trusted to make it through a season. And they need good young long-term solutions, not signing some 30-year-old who went to the Pro Bowl back when he was good.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 23, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

I've got to disagree, ds. I think JBrown has played much better during the past month. I think he has gotten over the hip problems, and made the adjustment to the right side. I'm hoping we can resign him soon.

I also think Wil Montgomery is showing promise. We should be able to find a good C/G in FA, that will solidify the line. And I'm anxious to see Cook play.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 23, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz | December 23, 2010 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Moe is talking about building around Rex Grossman...and he's not joking.

It's an observation, not desire.

And it just might happen.

Rex as a starter means the FO might decide to forgo drafting a future starter early, and use the first round pick in other ways.

(...and that's a kinda, sorta good/bad thing, isn't it?)

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

OK, Alan...just out of curiosity, who do you think is the better coach in terms of credentials...Shanahan for winning back-to-back SBs or Marv Levy for losing 4 in a row?

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan dismisses talk of tanking
Posted by Mike Florio on December 23, 2010, 10:07 AM EST

Over the weekend, a theory emerged that Redskins coach Mike Shanahan decided to bench quarterback Donovan McNabb and elevate Rex Grossman in part losing down the stretch would put the Redskins in better position to draft their quarterback of the future.

Shanahan, predictably, dismisses that notion.

“That doesn’t even deserve an answer,” Shanahan recently told Thomas George of FanHouse.com, before providing an answer. “It is totally ridiculous. Anybody who knows me knows I want to win.”

The theory originated with Michael Lombardi of NFL Network, who once worked for Shanahan in Denver and who thus “knows” Shanahan.

Though Shanahan has acknowledged that he’s willing to sprain the truth when necessary, we believe that he wants to win. The question is whether he’s talking about winning a handful of meaningless regular-season games, or whether he’s talking about building a program that consistently wins.

It doesn’t take a genius to realize that a team’s long-term interests are buoyed by short-term struggles, when it comes to draft position. Right now, six teams have fewer than five wins. Nine teams have five or six wins. Thus, the difference between 7-9 and 6-10 and 5-11 can be dramatic when it comes to, say, getting in position to draft Cam Newton or to trade up for Andrew Luck.

“When you are trying to build something the right way, it can take off, but it usually takes time,” Shanahan said. He’s right, and it usually takes a draft or two. And the higher the team drafts, the better.

Meanwhile, in an effort to stay true to the attitude that helped this site grow, we need to raise a related issue. Are we the only ones who wondered whether George’s item was an article or a press release? Though George poses some delicate questions to Shanahan, George gives Shanahan a platform for answering them without scrutiny, analysis, or skepticism.

And he assumes without evidence one key fact that may or may not be true — that the owner who falls out of love with a head coach faster than any owner in sports has not yet fallen out of love with Shanahan.

Of all sports journalists, George should realize that the truth is often buried below levels of obfuscation. Indeed, it was George who harvested quotes from Broncos owner Pat Bowlen indicating that coach Josh McDaniels would definitely return in 2011, and who presented them without scrutiny, analysis, or skepticism.

In that case, it was clear that Bowlen’s words would not mesh with his actions. In this case, we think the assumption that Mike Shanahan continues to enjoy the trust of Daniel Snyder may be just as big of a stretch.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

This is ridic. For the last 5 seasons we've been asking for a guy to take the reins.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 23, 2010 10:43 AM

Actually, I was happy with Gibbs 2.0. Three seasons ago, I wanted the continuity to continue with Grilliams or anyone with a Gibbs pedigree (Grimm has been mentioned), but the Zorn hiring took the team in a completely new direction.

So I view Zorn and Shanahan in a similar light--long term experiments.

I see a parallel, too: We traded a young QB who had potential for a Big Name (McNabb) who already peaked and wasn't going to get any better after being let go by the team he built his reputation with.

My suspicion is that we did the exact same thing with the coaching swap.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of the 5th round, I'd like to throw a D1 AA player from Villanova...Ben Ijalana. He's their starting LT, but probably fits better at guard since he's 6-4. He's 320, but he's still mobile enough and he's solid in pass pro. Probably a backup his first couple of years, but you could do worse.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2010 10:18 AM

He's all over my radar. My brother is a Villanova grad, so he has not gone unnoticed. I already have him listed at G on my chart.

Good call.

Posted by: edvar | December 23, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Rex as a starter means the FO might decide to forgo drafting a future starter early, and use the first round pick in other ways.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 10:49 AM

+++++++++++++++++
We can hope, can't we?

I'm pretty sure that Shanahan will get a QB in this draft, though. I just hope he waits until the 3rd-4th round, and goes for Ricky Stanzi. Hopefully, someone will give us some draft picks for AH/DM to use for him.

That's what I hope. What I think, though, is that he'll use the first rounder for a QB. (sigh)

Posted by: smurff11 | December 23, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Healthy Jammal Brown: 'I'm becoming my old self'


Too late. Maybe next year.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 23, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse

With few picks and so many holes, Skins will have to use the draft and RESPONSIBLE free agency.

My thoughts:

- Brown can be a solid RT for us. I think the Guard and Center positions are the priority. Most of the pressure has been up the middle.

- What's "Big" Mike Williams' status?

- The Redskins NEED EVERYTHING, so it's hard to say what they should or shouldn't do in the first round. I'd go with the best player available.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 23, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Cam.

Newton.

STAMPED.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 23, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse
________

Certainly a great player this year, but I'm just not sure about Newton as the future Skins QB. We all know the history of spread college QBs vs pro-style college QBs in the NFL (not too great, although there are a few exceptions), but more importantly to me is that there's a pretty strong correlation to NFL QB success and the # of games started in college. Cam's only started 1 year at the DI level. But also, as dynamic a guy as he's been this year, is he really Shanny's type of QB? The guy frankly strikes me as a younger version of McNabb, and maybe a better version of Vince Young. He's a great athlete who's biggest strength is his ability to improvise, run, and make plays on the fly. He seems to have a strong, fairly accurate arm, but nobody's going to mistake him for one of the most accurate arms in the the NCAA or NFL. Shanny seems to want a QB who doesn't improvise, but rather sticks to the system and runs the WC Offense. This type of need doesn't play to Cam's strengths, in my opinion. A more creative coach who's willing to adapt to Cam's strengths may be a better fit than a Shanny-coached team, 'cause as we've seen this year, Shanny is anything but flexible, to a fault. I think one of the other prospects - i.e., Luck (who I still don't think will come out), Locker, or Mallet - will be a better fit here.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | December 23, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

OK, Alan...just out of curiosity, who do you think is the better coach in terms of credentials...Shanahan for winning back-to-back SBs or Marv Levy for losing 4 in a row?

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:49 AM |
======
as a full package.. I would say Shanny because he had final "GM say" at Denver.
Whereas Levy had a great GM, Bill Polian, buying his groceries when he was HC.. And when Levy did became GM at Buffalo, he did not fare so well. In fact, when he was named GM in 2006 he aptly called himself "an 80 yr old rookie" at that position... Eventually he resigned the next year.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | December 23, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

A 3rd rounder for a one year a right tackle? Another short-sighted wasted drafted pick.

Posted by: jgllo | December 23, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Hardly, jgllo. First of all, we didn't give up a 3rd, we swapped a 3rd for a 5th round pick and JBrown. And secondly, we have over a month in Jan. before FA starts to resign him. I think we will make a concerted effort to do that.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 23, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

You are freaking moronic drive-by on this blog.

I'm one of those I guess, but without the freaking and moronic.

I only post when I'm in a good mood. Rarely.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2010 11:52 PM

I posted the above last night. It was wrong. It should have looked like this:

“You are freaking moronic drive-by on this blog.”
Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2010 11:52 PM

I'm one of those I guess, but without the freaking and moronic.

I only post when I'm in a good mood. Rarely.

Sorry RSH for the mis-quote last night.

Posted by: smokeybear2 | December 23, 2010 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Nobody wins one Super Bowl (let alone two) without a great roster. You can win with a flawed roster, sure, but not one without serious talent. Yeah, Shanahn only won with Elway, just as Gibbs only won with the Hogs and Billick/Ditka only won with all time great defenses. In other news, the sky is blue.

The solution isn't to find a coach who cna succeed with sucky players. The solution is to put together a roster that isn't loaded with sucky players. As long as the Redskins talent level is so low, it doesn't matter if the coach is Shanahan, Zorn, or the ghost of Vince Lombardi.

To paraphrase Boswell, it will be a cold day in hell when Shanahan's coaching ability is the thing holding the Redskins back. His GM ability, on the other hand ...

Posted by: Tank2 | December 23, 2010 11:04 AM | Report abuse

OK, Alan...just out of curiosity, who do you think is the better coach in terms of credentials...Shanahan for winning back-to-back SBs or Marv Levy for losing 4 in a row?

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:49 AM

To me it's a wash, they're both good coaches. There are very few GREAT coaches. Levy had a team talented enough to get there 4 times in a row, just like Shanahan had one talented enough to get there (and win) 2 times in a row. Is Levy more of a loser than someone like Norv Turner who never even gets there?

Is Gibbs a lesser coach than Shanahan because he lost a Super Bowl and Shanahan never has? I think not.

Bum Phillips described the GREAT Bear Bryant this way:

"He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

I haven't seen many coaches that can do that, but I think Gibbs 1.0 may have been one.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Jammal Brown will be here next year.

I have Jones-Drew and Torain on my fantasy team.

Who has the bigger day? The Jags D is pretty crappy too.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins NEED EVERYTHING, so it's hard to say what they should or shouldn't do in the first round. I'd go with the best player available.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 23, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Definitely at least for the first round anyway. It's looking like that will be a NT, WR, or CB. I don't think I could argue with any of those.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 23, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Alan4...

Gibbs 2.0 was a disaster PERSONNEL wise...Gibbs let this team get old, and gave away draft picks like water. He ruined Jason Campbell, ran Portis into the ground, and co-signed some of the most ridiculous contracts in NFL history.

The two playoff runs were good, but when he left, we had aging talent and few draft picks.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 23, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

But will Brown be among the group moving forward? He ...is not under contract in 2011.

Is deciding whether of not if J Brown should be re-signed is a "roll of the dice moment".

You know like I do that if he is re-sgned and plays up to pedigree, it's a win for us.

You also know like I do, he has an injury history, and could get re-signed and live up to that which is a Fail! for us.

You know like I do that if you let him leave, he could go elsewhere on the cheap and prosper.

You also know like I do, it would be nice to not to have to draft a right tackle, and having Brown allows that.

So what do you do?

Well, if you decided he has improved as the year progressed, you roll the dice, re-sign him to a market friendly contract, and peg him in as a starter.

S Heyer remains his back up.

And knowing you have Williams-Brown as tackles, guard and center remain points of interest: and a free agent and draft pick could resolve issues there, IMO.

So re-sign Brown right after you re-up S Moss.

The gamble, then, is letting them hit FA.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

I've noticed Jammals increased mobility and quality of play as well. This should eliminate one need IMO.

Posted by: TheScamp75 | December 23, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

First of all Shanahan would not be stupid enough to draft 3 recievers in a draft in the second round like Zorn and Vinny did. Think how really bad our offensive line would look if Brown wasn't traded to the Skins. You will also have to throw in big Mike williams in next year at starting right guard (Shanny was very high on him).

Posted by: flyinggoose1 | December 23, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Jammal Brown is a shadow of his Pro Bowl self. If he's willing to come back for a low-ball contract, he's good depth.

But if he's in the future plans, I'd bench him now and let that hip rest for next season. What's the point in playing him now?

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 23, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Jammal Brown will be here next year.

I have Jones-Drew and Torain on my fantasy team.

Who has the bigger day? The Jags D is pretty crappy too.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I think I heard that Jones-Drew didn't practice yesterday. Not sure why.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 23, 2010 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Cam.

Newton.

STAMPED.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 23, 2010 10:21 AM
==================================
DOUBLE STAMPED!

Posted by: BootneyFarnsworth | December 23, 2010 11:14 AM | Report abuse

@ rickyroge | December 23, 2010 11:08 AM

Agree, Gibbs needed a GM not named Vinny.

But did Shanahan leave the Broncos in better shape than Gibbs 2.0 left the Skins?

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Bottom Line:
In 16 seasons, Elway got to 5 Super Bowls.

In 17 seasons, Shanahan gets to 2 Super Bowls and gets fired twice (so far).

You can't win 'em if you don't get there, and Elway's team already knew how to get there.


So we can honestly say Elway got to the Super Bowl without Shanahan, but Shahanah never got to a Super Bowl without Elway. That fact is indisputable.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:35 AM |

First off Elways team as you call it went to 3 SB's and got beat in all 3.

Secondly you say Elways team new how to get to SB's the last SB they went to before Shanny was 1989. There were 3 offesnive starters and 4 defensive starters left from the 89 team when they won the SB 1997 after Shanny 3rd year.

All of the players with the exception of those guys were braught in by Shanny including Davis in the 6th round.

So your facts are very disputable and actually down right dumb.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

For all of Shanahan's blunders, I don't think he gets enough credit for some of his personnel finds...

1) Brandon Banks- he's young, fast, and CHEAP

2) Ryan Torain- The first "punishing" back we've had since Stephen Davis. We could have a good 1-2 punch with a "speed back" that can take it to the house.

3) Anthony Armstrong- he's relatively young (27), fast and could be a solid #3 when Moss retires or leaves.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 23, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

skinsfan

Mallet - will be a better fit here.

Total agreement there.

Mallett will remind the Shanahans of Matt Schaub.

Dude is 6'7", has a big arm, is an excellent deep ball thrower, is a multiple year starter in an NFL-type system, and has had the weight of the offense on him in big games.

He, unlike Newton, can start of day one.

But if the Shanahans have decided to move forward with Rex as a starter, Mallett or any other quarterback in round one is a luxury pick.

And when you finish 5-11, you can't afford luxuries.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

1997 and 1998 are extremely relevant right now.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Jammal Brown will be here next year.

I have Jones-Drew and Torain on my fantasy team.

Who has the bigger day? The Jags D is pretty crappy too.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 11:07 AM |
----------------------------
Torain..he's playing for a job

Posted by: BootneyFarnsworth | December 23, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

For all of Shanahan's blunders, I don't think he gets enough credit for some of his personnel finds...

1) Brandon Banks- he's young, fast, and CHEAP

2) Ryan Torain- The first "punishing" back we've had since Stephen Davis. We could have a good 1-2 punch with a "speed back" that can take it to the house.

3) Anthony Armstrong- he's relatively young (27), fast and could be a solid #3 when Moss retires or leaves.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 23, 2010 11:19 AM | Report abuse

All you shanny bashers need to reel in this whole elway talk. Remember Bubby Brister??? He went undefeated while Elway was hurt, a super bowl year. That kinda gets overlooked in that discussion of shanny's actual worth. He's better than Zorn by a mile and inherited the wackest team in the league. Take some time to relax. Anyone naive enough to think we would win with that shat QB McNabb this year is so out of it.

Posted by: BurgwithaU | December 23, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinsfan713 | December 23, 2010 11:00 AM

I agree, this isn't a Shanny type player, but it should be.

He's nothing like Vince Young. He's a great liar and handles pressure well, just like Shanny (See keeps winning games despite accusations of pay for play and immeniant ineligibility).

Shanny Jr wants the QB to look deep 1st, than check down as last choice. Cam will get it there. Mallet has too many questions and only has 2 real years under his belt under a coach who didn't even last a year in the Pros.

Cam had 2 years total (JuCO Champ and Soon to be D1 Champ back2back) and all he did was Win Win....Win no matter what.

He can extend the play. He can do alot. They just need to have an open mind, which we see Shanny Jr does not at this point.

For a further balanced read by a what prob most scouts think (not a 1st round pick), click on the link below. I disagree with the analysis, but this is what you will hear to have him knocked:

http://tommeltonscouting.wordpress.com/2010/12/08/early-cam-newton-scouting-report/

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 23, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I liked the results of JGII. But he wasn't leading as much as managing. HCO & HCD?! Who does that?

Zoron the Moron was as clueless as it gets as an HC. Danny Smith was surgically attached to his frekkin' headpiece. (Can't wait to see that guy leave).

I hope you're not talking about Soup as young with potential. He's neither.

The Shanahans weren't my first choice. I didn't really like his ethics on the Broncs (medical issues). But at least there's a direction - which is more than we've had for 5 seasons.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 23, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I have never understood the "never draft a QB in the 1st round" logic.

Sure...there have been some busts, but there have been booms too!

I'm tired of watching other teams with young GOOD QB's

Posted by: rickyroge | December 23, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21,
you and I will have to agree to disagree. We can both cherry pick facts to support our positions because Shanahan has had great moments (2 SBs) and very low moments (fired as HC twice).

I personally think Elway/Davis was the main difference between the "future HOF" Shanny and the Norv Turner-esque Shanny.

The next few years will clarify the answer for both of us, assuming he lasts that long.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

But if the Shanahans have decided to move forward with Rex as a starter, Mallett or any other quarterback in round one is a luxury pick.

And when you finish 5-11, you can't afford luxuries.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse
_______

Certainly agree with you re: the draft. The smart play would be to continue to spend the rds 1 and 2 picks on the O and/or D lines, not draft a QB. I also think Sexy Rexy needs a couple more starts before he's handed the keys to the car, so to speak, because at the end of the day he's still inconsistent Rex. This is exactly what he did at Chicago. One good game followed by a string of stinkers.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | December 23, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

The Jags D is pretty crappy too.

The jags' defense is built to stop the colts, texans, and titans.

And seeing how they beat all those teams at least once, I'd say it's not 'crappy'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Ricky- I think Armstrong will be the 2.

This guy is good and just seems to get better everytime I see him play.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Is Luck coming out in the Draft or not???

And if he does, how much will it cost us to trade up to get him?

Posted by: monk811 | December 23, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21,
you and I will have to agree to disagree. We can both cherry pick facts to support our positions because Shanahan has had great moments (2 SBs) and very low moments (fired as HC twice).

I personally think Elway/Davis was the main difference between the "future HOF" Shanny and the Norv Turner-esque Shanny.

The next few years will clarify the answer for both of us, assuming he lasts that long.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:25 AM |

Whatever I like how you sidestep when your stats get blown up on you.

You can't seem to admit that with the exception of Elway the SB team were entirley built by Shanny running his system.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

He, unlike Newton, can start of day one.

But if the Shanahans have decided to move forward with Rex as a starter, Mallett or any other quarterback in round one is a luxury pick.

And when you finish 5-11, you can't afford luxuries.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 11:18 AM

Moe have you seen the sporting news article on Mallet? It talked about how Mallet has regressed this season at reading coverages and decision making. The article noted that scouts are starting to feel that he should stay in school another year. Food for thought.

Here's the thing about Cam, it's true about the whole spread versus the pro offense debate. However, I'd withhold an opinion on him as a viable NFL starting quality qb
before those post season bowls, and interview sessions. We'll get the skinny then on how Cam is handling the complexities of pro offenses.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

To me it's a wash, they're both good coaches. There are very few GREAT coaches. Levy had a team talented enough to get there 4 times in a row, just like Shanahan had one talented enough to get there (and win) 2 times in a row. Is Levy more of a loser than someone like Norv Turner who never even gets there?

Is Gibbs a lesser coach than Shanahan because he lost a Super Bowl and Shanahan never has? I think not.

Bum Phillips described the GREAT Bear Bryant this way:

"He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

I haven't seen many coaches that can do that, but I think Gibbs 1.0 may have been one.


Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:06 AM


Just nitpicking here, but I think that Bum Phillips quote was in reference to Don Shula...could be wrong though...

I agree with your stance on there being few great coaches...but nobody up here is feeding you the notion that Shanahan is one of them. All I'm saying (and a few others based on what I'm reading) is that it's assinine to present Shanahan's two SBs as anything less than what they are: a great accomplishment. To talk it down or slight him for that because he had a HoF QB is crazy, considering guys that you would consider great coaches have done the EXACT same thing.

I will co-sign on the Gibbs take though...I think the way he won SBs far exceeds what anyone else did. Coaching and winning at the point of attack were the only constants during his regime and I doubt anyone else could do what he did in Washington.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

This is ridic. For the last 5 seasons we've been asking for a guy to take the reins.

You finally have a HC that does it & you cry like f'n babies.

Quit chafin' beyotdches.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 23, 2010 10:43 AM

I'm with you bubble butt.

Shanahan needs to cleanse the locker room by getting rid of the AH's and McNabbs--players with big mouths (AH) and players who underperform (DM).

Some will say that DM is doing a good job, "look at his numbers" they'll say "and look at who is protecting him."

I say back to them: It' all in the eye of the beholder. To you, and to some degree, to me, he may look good, but to the one who really counts, Shanahan, he looks underperforming.

I once asked a woman I was sleeping with why she bothered with me when it seemed her husband was taking good care of her--nice home, car, and jewels. She said: "he does a good job in many areas, but not in all areas, Moe--not in the most important areas."

Also, Shanahan needs to get rid of those players that keep their union rep's number on speed dial.

Posted by: smokeybear2 | December 23, 2010 11:31 AM | Report abuse

All coaches get fired that is about the dumbest thing to bring up in this argument.

How is BB getting fired in Cleveland coming to a Patriots a team built by Parcells, and having a HOF QB in Brady any different.

If all it takes for a coach to win SB's is a HOF passer why didn't any coach who had Dan Morino win a SB?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Ricky- I think Armstrong will be the 2.

This guy is good and just seems to get better everytime I see him play.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

In terms of listing them in talent, we will get a new WR in FA to be our #1, Moss will be #2, and AA will be #3.

But in terms of the offense alignment, the #1 and AA will be split out most of the time and Moss will switch to the slot, probably like 95% of the time. We'll be KILLIN defenses with that lineup!

Posted by: monk811 | December 23, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

He, unlike Newton, can start of day one.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 11:18 AM

Wow....Just Wow....

Disagree strongly.

"
Positives: He has a truly amazing combination of size and arm strength, he can make any throw he wants to with his rocket arm. He has the ability to put the ball where-ever he wants, and when he has time to throw he can really carve up a defense. He flashes the ability to go through progressions and seems comfortable checking down if he doesn’t see much developing downfield. He can also be patient when he has time in the pocket to wait for crossers and longer developing routes.

Negatives: He isn’t very mobile and he struggles to scramble to extend plays. He struggles with footwork a lot, and doesn’t look very comfortable doing three, five and seven step drops. He loves throwing off balance without setting his feet, and does not do a very good job of moving in the pocket and re-setting his feet to deliver an accurate throw. He also makes a lot more bad decisions than one might think considering his interception total. He could have easily had four interceptions against LSU (he had two), two against Georgia (he had none) and four against Alabama (he had three). He made a number of bad decisions in each of those games, a number of bad, off-balance throws and forced throws into coverage. He makes those poor decisions far too often, and he doesn’t make enough NFL progressions and throws in each game to make me comfortable with the risks he takes. The majority of his throws are easy throws underneath, screens or check-downs. There is also a serious concern that he could be a system QB, after all Brian Brohm was when he carved defenses up at Louisville when Petrino coached there. The best evidence for that idea is that Mallett’s back-up, Tyler Wilson, stepped in against Auburn this year when Mallett went down and threw for 332 yards, four touchdowns, two interceptions and completed 73.5% of his passes. That makes my “system QB” alarm go off.

Overall: Mallett has a boatload of potential. If he can clean up his footwork, improve his decision making, eliminate some of his erratic accuracy (which starts with footwork more than anything) and adjust to a pro-style offense then he could be a quality NFL QB. However, that is a laundry list of pretty difficult things for a QB prospect to do. I worry that he is a system QB, I don’t like his questionable decision making, his inconsistent accuracy and ball placement, and I don’t like how many easy throws he is asked to make all game versus NFL throws that require timing, zip and accuracy. I personally think Mallett is overrated as a NFL prospect.
"

http://tommeltonscouting.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/ryan-mallett-qb-arkansas-scouting-report/

That doesn't sound like a guy who is ready to start day 1, like Sam Bradford. He only played for 2 years because he transferred.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 23, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

The Jags D is pretty crappy too.

The jags' defense is built to stop the colts, texans, and titans.

And seeing how they beat all those teams at least once, I'd say it's not 'crappy'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

But can it stop a "Torain"?

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 11:33 AM | Report abuse

If Kyle thinks he can subsist with Rex, I bet he believes he could win with Cam. SEC style QBing.

And Alan - Double G?! Are you kidding me? How many times did that guy 'turtle up', take his ball & go home. Fkuck that guy.

I don't want him anywhere NEAR my teams. He's a stat's hound and doesn't know SJK about winning.

I'm not saying he isn't a good DC, but he needs to be in the EXACT right system to do any good; that is, a VERY high scoring offense.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 23, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

so Gibbs 2.0, Skins made the playoffs twice in 4 years

in the previous, what, 10 years before Gibbs 2.0 they made the playoffs once?

and the 3 years since Gibbs left they made the playoffs 0 times.

im not sayin, but im sayin, it looks to me comparatively that Gibbs 2.0 was a huge success comparatively to the Skins of the last 20 years, but not from Gibbs 1.0

Also, in the 4 years that ST21 started the year the Skins made the playoffs twice and ST21 scored the game winning touchdown of our last playoff victory, that for me accounts for a lot

Posted by: retroskins14 | December 23, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

. Danny Smith was surgically attached to his frekkin' headpiece. (Can't wait to see that guy leave).

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 23, 2010 11:25 AM
------------------------------------
Danny Smith has been getting no love up here.... Why?.. I think he doing a good job. People say he "only" has good coverage teams....isn't that the objective?...not to let the returner run it back...Grahmn Gano..he's young and he had a down season..but he has a strong leg and a lot of potential..its not Smith's fault he missed...Shanny's the one who didn't sign Big Red..left him with a rookie who choked up in a big moment and Banks shows that a great returner makes the different...and now our return game up....isn't that what you what?...

Posted by: BootneyFarnsworth | December 23, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Whatever I like how you sidestep when your stats get blown up on you.

You can't seem to admit that with the exception of Elway the SB team were entirley built by Shanny running his system.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 11:29 AM

My stat was correct: Elway to 5 SBs, Shanny to 2 SBs.

You just added more data.

If you'd like we can keep going in circles, though.

I'll admit Shanny mostly built the Elway-led SB teams in 97-98 (minus his HOF QB).

Now can you admit he entirely, 100%, completely built and coached the Broncos teams that went 24-25, collapsing at the end of each of his last 3 seasons in Denver before he was fired?

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

The next few years will clarify the answer for both of us, assuming he lasts that long.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:25 AM


How do you figure that? Bottoming out here doesn't un-win him those two SBs.

Put it this way: Kurt Warner was great the first part of his career in St. Louis. He was awful his last year there, awful in NY, and was great again in Arizona. By your logic, he shouldn't go to the HoF since he wasn't consistently great.

Chances are, he'll be in.

If you're gonna dock Shanny cool points (or whatever you're grading on) because he had a couple great skill position players on offense, then you have to downgrade Lombardi for having HoFers at damn near every position on the field, Jimmy Johnson for having the triplets, and Mike Holmgren for having Brett Favre...and I don't think you're willing to do that.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

I've noticed Jammals increased mobility and quality of play as well. This should eliminate one need IMO.

Posted by: TheScamp75

ta da!!! we agree on something. I said before the season this was Shanny's biggest trade. Well, I might have been right for the wrong reasons.

But if this turns into a trade that keeps Brown here for the long haul, I might wind up right ... for the right reasons.

TW + Brown as our long term tackles will make it easier to get the OL we need.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 23, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

retroskins...

I LOVED the two playoff runs under Gibbs, but to me it's overshadowed by the bad personnel decisions under his regime.

Brandon Lloyd (we gave a pick)
TJ Duckett (we gave two picks)
Adam Archuleta
Ryan Clark
Antonio Pierce
Shaun Alexander

Posted by: rickyroge | December 23, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

that for me accounts for a lot

Posted by: retroskins14 | December 23, 2010 11:37 AM

STAMPED!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 23, 2010 11:44 AM | Report abuse

No one here seems to have noticed a crucial part of Jammal Brown's interview:

"Yes, now I do" feel comfortable on the right side, Brown said. "And the biggest thing was ... it's my left hip. When I was at left tackle, I was pressing of my right hip, so I was able to play a whole year [2008] with a torn labrum.

"When I got here they moved me to right tackle, so now I'm putting all that weight on my left hip. And that's what was hurting it more. But after I got through that, everything's been good. I feel good."

With the questions about starting Trent Williams at LT and moving Jammal Brown to RT, this quote from Brown makes that move look like a blunder. Brown would have been better off playing on the left side this year, protecting his left hip. This would have allowed Williams to break in on the less difficult right side. Then flip the two next year!

Posted by: bertbkatz | December 23, 2010 11:49 AM | Report abuse

that's understandable ricky, i dont know how much of the personnel was Gibbs

but those moves certainly did not help and is part of the reason we are where we are now

and i think that you have to figure, the pierce and duckett moves were the worst, only b/c of what we gave up

lloyd and arhuleta we equally as bad though

wasnt the alexander move in the zorn era?

it's still the only decent era we've had in like 2 generations

Posted by: retroskins14 | December 23, 2010 11:50 AM | Report abuse

brownwood26,

I'm not docking Shanahan points for anything. He won his SBs back in the 90's fair and square.

The question I'm asking is, "What has he done for me lately?"

And that's what EVERY Redskin fan should be asking.

That's what Snyder will eventually ask.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Now can you admit he entirely, 100%, completely built and coached the Broncos teams that went 24-25, collapsing at the end of each of his last 3 seasons in Denver before he was fired?

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:40 AM

Dude, you're bebopin' and scattin' all over the place...you're talking about Shanny the GM with that comment, not Shanny the coach. Shanny the coach did a great job when they won SBs. When Shanny the GM got involved, Shanny the coach suffered.

Same thing happened to Gibbs. And Holmgren. I'd bet the house that Cowher gets snake bitten in his next gig, especially if he gets the organizational control he so desires. Wearing the two most important hats in the organization doesn't end well and Shanahan falling victim to that doesn't take his two SBs off the mantle.

But hey...don't let reality get in the way of a perfectly good hatred...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Now can you admit he entirely, 100%, completely built and coached the Broncos teams that went 24-25, collapsing at the end of each of his last 3 seasons in Denver before he was fired?

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:40 AM |

I can admit that, I can also admit that Chuck Knoll after winning his last SB and losing his HOF QB had a losing record over his next 7 season does that make him less of a great coach?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

brownie, I'm carrying on two discussions, one with you and one (hopefully over) with Flounder.

Follow the thread and you'll see I'm responding to him on the one you're quoting.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Elway went to 3 Super Bowls without Shanny...how many did he win? he went to 2 Super Bowls with Shanny...how many did he win? Ummm....duh. Hail!!

P.S. Shanny has 3 Super Bowl rings.

Posted by: Smiley2 | December 23, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Elway went to 3 Super Bowls without Shanny...how many did he win? he went to 2 Super Bowls with Shanny...how many did he win? Ummm....duh. Hail!!

P.S. Shanny has 3 Super Bowl rings.

Posted by: Smiley2 | December 23, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

The question I'm asking is, "What has he done for me lately?"

And that's what EVERY Redskin fan should be asking.

That's what Snyder will eventually ask.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:51 AM


Fair enough...I can get with that. Just like Belichick's putrid record in Cleveland didn't stop him from heading up a dynasty in NE, Shanahan's success in Denver has no bearing on what he does in Washington. All I'm saying is don't put an asterisk next to his SBs because he had a great QB.

Just like ANY coach, his success in Washington will be tied directly to what's he got here at QB and throughout the roster. I had more hope for him initially because I thought BA was more involved as the GM...looks like Shanahan has all the juice, and that's a gamechanger in the wrong direction IMO...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 12:01 PM | Report abuse

brownwood26,

I'm not docking Shanahan points for anything. He won his SBs back in the 90's fair and square.

The question I'm asking is, "What has he done for me lately?"

And that's what EVERY Redskin fan should be asking.

That's what Snyder will eventually ask.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 11:51 AM |

What has he done lately give the guy a f-cking chance, what has any coach of the Skins done for you lateley?

Gibbs 2.0 had disater personell moves the first year yet because he is a god here no one said sh-t, if he had won his 3 SB somewhere else you and all the other whiners would have wanted him fired the first year.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I think Armstrong will be the 2.
This guy is good and just seems to get better everytime I see him play.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 11:27 AM | Report abuse

In terms of listing them in talent, we will get a new WR in FA to be our #1, Moss will be #2, and AA will be #3.

Posted by: monk811 | December 23, 2010 11:33 AM

Just imagine AA's prodcution this season if he wasn't underthrown on nearly EVERY single deep ball.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 23, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Alan4...

Gibbs 2.0 was a disaster PERSONNEL wise...Gibbs let this team get old, and gave away draft picks like water. He ruined Jason Campbell, ran Portis into the ground, and co-signed some of the most ridiculous contracts in NFL history.

The two playoff runs were good, but when he left, we had aging talent and few draft picks.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 23, 2010 11:08 AM

Talking about guys winning because of others. Gibbs was nothing without Bethard, after Bethard left the Skins started going down hill. Gibbs selection of players (Shuller, JC, etc) were a disaster. This guy left town with nose longer than Pinocchio, his departure the second time around was out of the book of Rober Irsay midnight move to Indianapolis ... well, no really, Irsay warned Baltimore of what could happen if they didn't reach an accord, Gibbs just got up and left without warning his staff or coaches and left them dry. The charismatic beloved christian coach didn't give a crap about the families of the people that supported him. His support of Pettibon and Williams? Well, lets say that those two guys have had more supporting enemies.

Posted by: hock1 | December 23, 2010 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Shanny/Elway/Davis and Superbowls is by far the most tired thing on this blog.

Please everyone stop! It's driving me crazy.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Brown,

I wouldn't dismiss Shanny the GM so quickly he had control of the Broncos his entire career so he did make some good calls. Shanny's problem at the end in Denver was defense he alwaqys had the offense to win.

Hopefully he learned something from that and will do better here.

The Mcnabb trade aside I don't think the GM part was to badd this year much better then any year of Vinny.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I can admit that, I can also admit that Chuck Knoll after winning his last SB and losing his HOF QB had a losing record over his next 7 season does that make him less of a great coach?

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 11:56 AM


Obviously not. But does it suggest he may have been past his prime? Abso-damn-lutely.

Knoll retired 12 years after his last Super Bowl, going 2-4 in the playoffs during that span.

Shanahan is now 12 years past his last Super Bowl, with a 1-3 playoff record during that span.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 12:09 PM | Report abuse

skinsfan

I also think Sexy Rexy needs a couple more starts before he's handed the keys to the car,....

I think things are trending towards Rex Grossman being named starter for next year.

Gitcha popcorn and turnover ratio ready!!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Just imagine AA's prodcution this season if he wasn't underthrown on nearly EVERY single deep ball.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 23, 2010 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I know right.

The dude is just fun to watch.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 12:12 PM | Report abuse

If one more person insults our beloved Joe Gibbs...I'm afraid iH8's head may explode.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 23, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

If Newton can find a way to cheat on the Wonderlic test and not get caught; he may get some serious looks in the first round. Personally, I like Luck and Locker better than eith Newton or Mallett. Man, this debate is going to get real old for the next 4 months. I hate that we Skins fans are reduced to talking about the draft every year in DECEMBER.

Posted by: Skin4Life1 | December 23, 2010 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Outstanding analysis of the family dynamics of Team Shanahan from today's KidsPost writer Fred Bowen.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/22/AR2010122205089.html

Among the highlights:

"...the Redskins players must be wondering if Dad Shanahan is blaming all the team's offensive problems on McNabb because he doesn't want to point the finger at his son's offensive system."

Posted by: Vic1 | December 23, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, yeah, yeah...Elway never won the big one w/o Shanny and Shanny hasn't won it again since Elway.

I also never did a fat girl until I started drinking.

Will I ever do another fat girl? Maybe

Am I any less of a drinker? Not really.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 12:21 PM | Report abuse

twisi/4thfloor

That (Ryan Mallet) doesn't sound like a guy who is ready to start day 1, like Sam Bradford.

I'm not the sort of Madden GM who pays attention to scouting services.

I watch football.

Years ago, scouts said that Devin Hester would have no true role in the NFL, 'cept special teams.

Memba when scouts said Andre Smith would be just as good as Michael Oher.

They also felt Jerry Rice was slow and came from too small a program to excel in the NFL.

Last year, scouts said Colt McCoy wasn't as good as Jimmy Claussen.

They once told use that Vince Young and Matt Leinhart were sure fire starters--not the Vandy kid Cutler.

Scouts are professional fault finders.

For the short list of positives on a potential player, they have a longer list of reasons why he shouldn't be drafted.

Before the '10 draft, they worried that Sam Bradford's shoulder injury showed him to be a fragile player.

They once had they same issue with Adrian Petersen.

How have those fears worked out?

Stop reading what scouts write to make your decisions.

Watch football.

I do.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Bootney!

Don't get lulled by his flirtations with adequateness! Danny Smith is a scourge! He's one of the only remaining links to the chain of fail. He needs to go.

Seriously, tho. He's just been consistently bad for too long. If others are being held accountable, he needs to be, too.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 23, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Memba when scouts said Andre Smith would be just as good as Michael Oher.

All I remember are his boobies bouncing in slow motion at the combine.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 12:28 PM | Report abuse

AA really is having a solid year, solid stats basically he's top 4 in the deep ball category among WR, avg per catch and catches over 40+, def need to have him around next yr

fat b**ches need love too craig

Posted by: retroskins14 | December 23, 2010 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Knoll retired 12 years after his last Super Bowl, going 2-4 in the playoffs during that span.

Shanahan is now 12 years past his last Super Bowl, with a 1-3 playoff record during that span.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 12:09 PM


Wow...so ONE playoff win is what slants Shanny in the crapper and Knoll in the penthouse? At least you're consistent...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Good coaches need talent to win.

Teddy atlas could teach me to fight, it doesn't mean I'd beat up Floyd mayweather.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Watch football.

I do.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 12:22 PM

Well....Watching football should tell you to draft Cam Newton.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 23, 2010 12:36 PM | Report abuse

fat b**ches need love too craig

Posted by: retroskins14 | December 23, 2010 12:29 PM


OOOH boy do they. I personally enjoy the young fatties a bit more.

Q: Why are fat women like pianos?

A: Because when you turn them upside down, they are all grand!

Posted by: smokeybear2 | December 23, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

He's nothing like Vince Young. He's a great liar and handles pressure well, just like Shanny (See keeps winning games despite accusations of pay for play and immeniant ineligibility).

Shanny Jr wants the QB to look deep 1st, than check down as last choice. Cam will get it there. Mallet has too many questions and only has 2 real years under his belt under a coach who didn't even last a year in the Pros.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 23, 2010 11:25 AM

He's a great liar? Never thought about that, must have been why Shuler was such a bust.

Everybody loves breaking down the draft but 4thFloor would be the Vinny of RI.

1. Calling Suh a non-playmaking DT.

2. Wanting to draft Spiller @ #4

3. Mallett has more questions than Newton?

Screw it, let's find a way to trade up for Luck.

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 23, 2010 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Brain bruise beeps.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Folks, I'm from the Denver area and people seem to forget that Elway made it to three superbowls by a wing and prayer and got his a$$ kicked each time - once by the Redskins with an unknown QB named Doug Williams. Until Shanahan Elway was a talented bum, relegated to Jim Kelly status in the lore of football. It was not until Shanahan plugged John into "the system" with great running backs that John was able to get to and win the big kahuna twice.

Redskins fans have been so beat up over the past ten years, you want want to gripe about everything and have everyone's head on stick - rightfully so... Give it some time. The last half of the Dallas game, I thought I was watching the Broncos of the Elway era.

In regard to McNabb, Portis, and Hanesworth complaining like a bunch of spoiled children, Mike needs to quote Al Pacino in the locker room - "If I were the man I was ten years ago, I'd take a flamethrower to this place!" This team needs to play scared and actually earn their paycheck.

McNabb is not Elway and will never be. Good for Shanahan to cut his loses. Grossman could be - he got the Bears to the Superbowl once... Go Skins. This one's for Dan...

Posted by: jeffroski | December 23, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Wow all this love for Ryan Mallet and I'll be the first to say he's good, but how about drafting Kellen Moore (if he's decides to leave Boise State). This dude is crazy accurate which we need in this system, he doesn't have the huge arm but neither does Matt Schaub or Kyle Orton. Moore could be a poor man's Peyton Manning and he could be had late 1st early 2nd round. That game against VA Tech he showed me so much, also he maybe the most NFL ready QB other than Luck in college football this season. Moore is the truth and I know this because I watch football and lots of it.

Posted by: robbkels | December 23, 2010 4:11 PM | Report abuse


I love the free sample site "123 Get Samples" search online to find their official website, that's where i get most of my samples from!!! yay i love free stuff.


Posted by: sandrabessey24 | December 24, 2010 4:10 AM | Report abuse

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