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Jason Campbell's agent exploring trade possibilities

With the permission of Redskins Coach Mike Shanahan, quarterback Jason Campbell's agent is exploring trade opportunities, people familiar with the situation say.

In emails I've received, some Insider readers have suggested the Redskins should just release Campbell, a restricted free agent, in an effort to help ease his path out of town. The Redskins would not receive any draft compensation for Campbell -- a former first-round draft pick -- if they simply released him, and the only way Campbell could become an unrestricted free agent is if the Redskins withdrew their one-year, $3.14 million contract tender offer.

Other than a trade, the team could not receive compensation for Campbell after April 15, which is the deadline for restricted free agents to sign offer sheets with other clubs. The Redskins have not ruled out bringing back Campbell, who has not signed his tender offer, as a backup this season.

By Jason Reid  |  April 6, 2010; 12:12 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Campbell , Jason Reid  | Tags: Jason Campbell, Redskins quarterback Jason Campbell, trade  
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Next: McNabb to Campbell: 'The sky is the limit for you'

Comments

He felt his legacy in Philadelphia was winning. "Every time we stepped on the field, the Eagles felt confident we can win the game. I look to bring that to Washington."

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 6, 2010 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Is this thing working?

Posted by: TWISI | April 6, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

In emails I've received, some Insider readers have suggested the Redskins should just release Campbell, a restricted free agent, in an effort to help ease his path out of town. The Redskins would not receive any draft compensation for Campbell -- a former first-round draft pick -- if they simply released him, and the only way Campbell could become an unrestricted free agent is if the Redskins withdrew their one-year, $3.14 million contract tender offer.

Other than a trade, the team could not receive compensation for Campbell after April 15,
By Jason Reid | April 6, 2010
====================
Snyder gave up a 1st, 3rd and 4th..and huge signing bonuses.. Its not in Snyder's DNA to get nothing back on an investment.
It was the only reason Zorn was brought in for the last year.. improve the JC investment.
It will be a trade.. hopefully at least a 4th round pick.
A good clue will be to see who JC's Agent has as other clients and their respective teams.. That would indicate what owners the Agent has connections to and who may be on the JC shortlist of future teams.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

send him to the Broncos along with Moss and bring in B. Marshall and a low draft pick.

Posted by: duncanrobee | April 6, 2010 1:08 PM | Report abuse

A few fun facts:

In 2009, McNabb was sacked 7.3% of the time he dropped back, Campbell 7.8%. Campbell lost 6.1yds/sack, McNabb 6.9.

Campbell averaged losing 18 yards per game on sacks. McNabb averaged losing 19 yards per game on sacks. In 15 games, McNabb lost 286 yards on sacks. Campbell, in 16 games, lost 285.

McNabb was a very good running QB for much of his career. Up to age 26, he averaged 6 yards a carry. From 27-31, he averaged 5 yards a carry. The last 2 years, he has run less often, and has averaged 3.8 per carry.

Campbell has averaged 5.1 yards a carry for his career, and 5.1 for last season.

McNabb set a personal record in 2009 with 12 fumbles in 15 games, one less than Campbell's 13 fumbles in 16 games.

Against the Skins in 2009, McNabb had QB rating of 85.1. Campbell vs philly had QB rating of 83.1.

In 2009, McNabb had 8 games with a QB rating over 90 in 15 games (53%). In 16 games, Campbell had 9 games with a QB rating of over 90 (56%).

vs the NFC East, Donovan had 2 of his 3 best games in 2009 vs the jints, with rating of 129 for the 2 games. vs dallas in 3 games, his rating was 68.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

send him to the Broncos along with Moss and bring in B. Marshall and a low draft pick.

Posted by: duncanrobee | April 6, 2010 1:08 PM

Are you referring to the Broncos who didn't want him last year when we tried to engineer a trade for Cutler? What makes you think they've changed their mind?

Posted by: League-Source | April 6, 2010 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth could be heading home
Posted by Mike Florio on April 6, 2010 12:08 PM ET
NFL_haynesworth1.jpgThe fact that the Redskins offered defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth to the Eagles as part of the Donovan McNabb package wasn't a one-time thing.

Jason La Canfora of NFL.com recently reported that he expects the Redskins to continue to try to trade the man with the four-year, $48 million contract. John Clayton of ESPN.com believes that Haynesworth could return to the Titans, the team with which he spent his first seven NFL seasons. Clayton also believes that the Redskins could send Haynesworth to the Rams for defensive tackle Adam Carriker.

Before the McNabb trade went down, we heard Haynesworth's name mentioned as one of the possible pieces of the package that could be put together for a run at Sam Bradford.

Bottom line? It's looking like the Redskins are willing to declare defeat regarding the Haynesworth deal, and then move forward.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 6, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

In emails I've received, some Insider readers have suggested the Redskins should just release Campbell, a restricted free agent, in an effort to help ease his path out of town.

By Jason Reid

Zeke posted this last night. We now know who one of the e-mailers must be.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 6, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

And they are bringing in Tebow for a visit Thursday and Friday. Rumor has it that we may trade our 2011 1st to grab Tebow in the 2nd.

I'd say that would never happen but after Sunday, anything is possible.
Posted by: Diesel44 | April 6, 2010 1:06 PM

That would be not good.

Posted by: TWISI | April 6, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Trade AH and JC to Oakland already!!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | April 6, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Trade AH and JC to Oakland already!!

Nobody wants them. Every team is focusing on improving through the draft now.

Well, every team except one.

Must be something in the water at Redskins Park.

Posted by: SteveMG | April 6, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

The only leverage the skins will have when negotiating for draft picks is if there are multiple suitors for JC's services. Hopefully, JC's agent can throw enough smoke to entice a team to sacrifice at least a 3rd rounder. I have my doubts.

Posted by: ZardsFan1 | April 6, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Shanahan is doing the right thing with Campbell at this point. He's allowing Jason to find the right situation for Jason.

Its not about getting a draft pick. The players like Campbell, knows what he has gone through and respect him. You don't send that guy into 'exile' without breaking faith with the players.

Given the situation, the team will trust Shanahan more if he allows Campbell to call his next move. There is more value in building that trust than there is in a draft pick.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know if BA/MS feel that Okung is the best OT in this draft? Could it be they like Trent Williams? or someone else?

Trust the Shanaplan.

Lot of people complaining out of ignorance up here.

Posted by: Curzon417 | April 6, 2010 1:20 PM | Report abuse

"The Redskins were simply hustled by the Eagles. The Eagles are shrewdly stockpiling draft picks and thus will likely have superior personnel for years to come as a result."

And here's an irony: the iggles could deal multiple picks to the rams for the 1st rounder, select Bradford, and still have picks to satisfy needs.

Say what you want to about them, but it's like Reid @ Company are playing chess while we stare at an empty checkers board.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Zeke posted this last night. We now know who one of the e-mailers must be.

Posted by: Curzon417

Didn't send an e-mail, but I do agree you let Campbell make his own call.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:22 PM | Report abuse

In 2009, McNabb had 8 games with a QB rating over 90 in 15 games (53%). In 16 games, Campbell had 9 games with a QB rating of over 90 (56%).

vs the NFC East, Donovan had 2 of his 3 best games in 2009 vs the jints, with rating of 129 for the 2 games. vs dallas in 3 games, his rating was 68.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:09 PM
===========
quick..zcezcest1.. you better tell Shanahan he is making a huge mistake..

All QBs are very comparable outside the red zones..
But where it counts, inside the REd zone, JC has the lowest TD efficiency in the NFL for active QBs and almost last in the history of all QBs with 900 or more attempts.. 210th out of 219.
What matters is scoring and thus winning.

Another important stat...
Compare JC's career NFC east record, 4-21 to McNabb's NFC record.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

With the permission of Redskins Coach Mike Shanahan, quarterback Jason Campbell's agent is exploring trade opportunities, people familiar with the situation say....

I'd say the sources are very familiar considering i just heard shanny say it at the presser.. way to state the obvious...lol

Posted by: Sports_Guru | April 6, 2010 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I realize the draft isn't for a little bit, and the season is still months away, but I keep coming back to 1 pick....we have 1 pick right now, in the first 3 rounds.....that cannot continue to happen...the team cannot continue to be run in this manner....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

At least some people have the good sense to e-mail galactically stupid suggestions to JReid rather than have them vetted in this forum.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 6, 2010 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Cooley could get us a high draft pick, Fred Davis, is faster and blocks as poorly.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | April 6, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I realize the draft isn't for a little bit, and the season is still months away, but I keep coming back to 1 pick....we have 1 pick right now, in the first 3 rounds.....that cannot continue to happen...the team cannot continue to be run in this manner....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:25 PM |

Agreed... I hate how we make the draft meaningless.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | April 6, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Remaining available UFA OT

Flozell Adams 12 yrs 6-7/340
Mike Gandy 9 yrs 6-4/310
Tra Thomas 12 yrs 6-7/317
Levi Jones 8 yrs 6-5/307
Damion McIntosh 10 yrs 6-4/328
Orlando Pace 12 yrs 6-7/320
Ephraim Salaam 12 yrs 6-7/310

Posted by: Diesel44 | April 6, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

As if the Brett Favre offseason doesn't provide enough drama, now we add one more chapter to the evergrowing saga...

Thats right, he is now a grandpa!! I get the feeling this guy is going to play until he gets to meet his great grandchildren.

And some of you think McNabb is old?


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/06/brett-favre-confirms-hes-a-grandpa/

Posted by: skinsfanintampa | April 6, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

we have 1 pick right now, in the first 3 rounds.....that cannot continue to happen...the team cannot continue to be run in this manner

If we could have 72 point type on our posts, it would be perfect for the above.

Man...

I hope these people who think we can get a bunch of picks for Campbell et al. are right. Or that FA will be filled with players that will meet the team's needs.

Another case (as Oscar Wilde said) of the triumph of hope over experience.

Posted by: SteveMG | April 6, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:25 PM

I agree with you a little but you just have to look at as if DMcNabb was your 2nd rounder this year. If someone told you the Skins could get a QB guaranteed to be of McNabb's quality at No. 37, wouldn't you agree they should draft him? At least now, you can be assured they will go O-line at #4 like you want. Before this deal that likely was not going to be the case.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 6, 2010 1:31 PM | Report abuse

"Bottom line? It's looking like the Redskins are willing to declare defeat regarding the Haynesworth deal and then move forward."

I can't agree with this as even if the team is dissatisfied with with Albert, sending him away means depending on a possibly unhealthy Kemoteau, Golston, and Montegomery for line play.

And why would you try to improve your O by bringing in McNabb, then subtract from your D by getting rid of Prince Al?

I say Mr. Haslett jumps in to mend fences with Haynesworth, and he gets another season at FEDEX.

And if Albert doesn't plase the second time around, he can huff and puff his way back to Tenn....

....with a boatload cash in tow.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

"The Redskins were simply hustled by the Eagles. The Eagles are shrewdly stockpiling draft picks and thus will likely have superior personnel for years to come as a result."

And here's an irony: the iggles could deal multiple picks to the rams for the 1st rounder, select Bradford, and still have picks to satisfy needs.

Say what you want to about them, but it's like Reid @ Company are playing chess while we stare at an empty checkers board.

Posted by: MistaMoe

philly has an amazing number of picks to add to a team with a lot of young talent. They have set themselves up to be formidable for a very long time.

One thing they do that I like, they trade this year's pick for next year's pick in a higher round. The year's 6th for next year's 5th from someone else. Hurts you in the short run, helps you in the long run.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

"The Redskins were simply hustled by the Eagles. The Eagles are shrewdly stockpiling draft picks and thus will likely have superior personnel for years to come as a result."

And here's an irony: the iggles could deal multiple picks to the rams for the 1st rounder, select Bradford, and still have picks to satisfy needs.

Say what you want to about them, but it's like Reid @ Company are playing chess while we stare at an empty checkers board.

Posted by: MistaMoe

philly has an amazing number of picks to add to a team with a lot of young talent. They have set themselves up to be formidable for a very long time.

One thing they do that I like, they trade this year's pick for next year's pick in a higher round. The year's 6th for next year's 5th from someone else. Hurts you in the short run, helps you in the long run.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I realize the draft isn't for a little bit, and the season is still months away, but I keep coming back to 1 pick....we have 1 pick right now, in the first 3 rounds.....that cannot continue to happen...the team cannot continue to be run in this manner....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:25 PM | Report abuse

It wasn't Shanallen's fault that two of the picks were already gone. IMO getting a veteran top 10 QB for 3-5 years for a 2nd rounder and a 4th or 3rd is worth it. This years QB class was mediocre at best, they obviously weren't in love with Bradford or Clausen or they wouldn't have done this. They have time to make some moves to get more picks but even if they don't they can get a premier LT at #4 and already got an elite QB, that's pretty stellar IMO. Next year draft the QB to be groomed McNabb for a couple of years, a young back, and continue on the oline and they've a great job of building for the future while making us competitive now as well. You're always the one saying wait and see, well wait and see, this is their first big move, there will be more to come, wait till year 3 to criticize. What if they re-sign Levi, draft Okung, get Marshall by sending Haynesworth and Carter to the Broncos, go to the playoffs and draft Mallet or Ponder next year? or some variation of that? I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 6, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Now we know why the Skins signed Rex Grossman.

Posted by: Samson151 | April 6, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

In emails I've received, some Insider readers have suggested the Redskins should just release Campbell, a restricted free agent, in an effort to help ease his path out of town. The Redskins would not receive any draft compensation for Campbell -- a former first-round draft pick -- if they simply released him, and the only way Campbell could become an unrestricted free agent is if the Redskins withdrew their one-year, $3.14 million contract tender offer.

Other than a trade, the team could not receive compensation for Campbell after April 15,
By Jason Reid | April 6, 2010
====================
Snyder gave up a 1st, 3rd and 4th..and huge signing bonuses.. Its not in Snyder's DNA to get nothing back on an investment.
It was the only reason Zorn was brought in for the last year.. improve the JC investment.
It will be a trade.. hopefully at least a 4th round pick.
A good clue will be to see who JC's Agent has as other clients and their respective teams.. That would indicate what owners the Agent has connections to and who may be on the JC shortlist of future teams.


Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

------------------------------------

Actually, it was Gibbs that gave up those draft picks for JC. Gibbs was a good football coach, but thank heavens he had Bethard finding players for him when he won SBs, because he stunk as a GM.

Posted by: Ireland2 | April 6, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

So Jason's agent wants everyone to know his client is now entertaining offers?

How is this any different than at any time over the past two or three seasons?

The Redskins realized in about year three of the contract that young Jason would never lead them to the promised land because he was just too slow, indecisive and inaccurate.

They've been trying to dump him ever since.

The only the difference is everyone (but Jason, it seems) has finally come to realize that he is as good as he'll ever be -- and frankly, not good enough to start anywhere else in the league.

Posted by: Vic1 | April 6, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

"Trust the Shanaplan.

Lot of people complaining out of ignorance up here."

Posted by: Curzon417

The problem is their plan looks identical to Vinny's and all of the other plans we've seen for the last several years. 1 pick in the 1st 3 rounds isn't good enough.


Posted by: dcwun | April 6, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

"The Redskins were simply hustled by the Eagles. The Eagles are shrewdly stockpiling draft picks and thus will likely have superior personnel for years to come as a result."


And here's an irony: the iggles could deal multiple picks to the rams for the 1st rounder, select Bradford, and still have picks to satisfy needs.

Say what you want to about them, but it's like Reid @ Company are playing chess while we stare at an empty checkers board.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 1:22 PM |

No don't think so you can have all the pieces you want but they have a QB that is a big unknown. He will not make them better next year and there is no telling if he will ever get to an elite level.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 6, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

I agree with you a little but you just have to look at as if DMcNabb was your 2nd rounder this year. If someone told you the Skins could get a QB guaranteed to be of McNabb's quality at No. 37, wouldn't you agree they should draft him? At least now, you can be assured they will go O-line at #4 like you want. Before this deal that likely was not going to be the case.

no you don't, for 2 reasons:
1. He's 33, draft picks are early 20's
2. Salary for a rookie, versus 11 million that DMAC is making.
3. DM can LEAVE after 1 year.
4. If Okung isn't there at 4, then you REACH for Trent Williams, or someone else.

You've BACKED yourself into a corner with this trade.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Compare JC's career NFC east record, 4-21 to McNabb's NFC record.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM |

In the last 5 years, McNabb is 11-15 vs the NFC East.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Is it me or did DM5 talk about "Dan and Mike" alot more than "Bruce and Mike"??

Posted by: skinsfanintampa | April 6, 2010 12:49 PM |

I thought about that as well. But the Skins were hosting McCoy yesterday and Bradford today, so Bruce maybe a little preoccupied.

Posted by: TWISI | April 6, 2010 1:00 PM |

Bruce is basically just the 'communicator'.....Not much else....He is the GM of the Business side....Shanny is the GM (for all intent and purposes) on the Football side......

So, it makes sense that he said Dan and Mike...He proba hasn't had alot of discussions with Bruce.....Bruce won't be making draft picks....HE just controls the message and wha comes out of the Park....

A true Republican at it's best....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Other than a trade, the team could not receive compensation for Campbell after April 15, which is the deadline for restricted free agents to sign offer sheets with other clubs. The Redskins have not ruled out bringing back Campbell, who has not signed his tender offer, as a backup this season.

By Jason Reid | April 6, 2010; 12:12 PM ET

I don't think this is correct....HE doesn't have to sign his tendor offer by 04/15. And he can get traded for future picks after 4/15 when he signs his offer.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I agree with you a little but you just have to look at as if DMcNabb was your 2nd rounder this year. If someone told you the Skins could get a QB guaranteed to be of McNabb's quality at No. 37, wouldn't you agree they should draft him? At least now, you can be assured they will go O-line at #4 like you want. Before this deal that likely was not going to be the case.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 6, 2010 1:31 PM

I'd be apprehensive about drafting a 33 yr old with #37 pick and a top 100 pick next year...He'd only have a few years left in the tank and would probably have a difficult time picking up the rulebook.

Posted by: Diesel44 | April 6, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

JC supporters need to go cry in a corner.... It's over! Let it go!

You guys can compare all the stats you want, but the bottom line is winning and McNabb has proven he can do that and motivate his teammates to play.

Posted by: bdbyptr | April 6, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

"Say what you want to about them, but it's like Reid @ Company are playing chess while we stare at an empty checkers board.

Posted by: MistaMoe"

You think so?

Shanahan turned this offense that ended the season:

QB: Campbell
RB: Ganther, Mason, Cartwright
FB: Sellers
WR: Moss, Thomas, Randle El, Kelly, Mitchell
TE: Davis, Yoder
LT: Levi Jones
LG: Derrick Dockery
C: Rabach
RG: MWilliams
RT: Heyer

into this

QB: McNabb
RB: Portis, Johnson, Parker
FB: Sellers
WR: Moss, Thomas, Kelly, Mitchell
TE: Cooley, Davis, Ryan
LT: ?
LG: Dockery
C: Rabach
RG: Hicks/Williams
RT: ?

And we still have the #4 overall pick.

And Shanahan isn't done wheelin' and dealin'.

Say we draft Okung or Trent Williams at #4. Say Shanahan gets a pick out of Campbell and drafts another OT.

Now you're going to tell me the Redskins haven't dramatically upgraded their roster over what we had last season? This isn't a minimal upgrade. This is borderline reaching Boston Celtics level of turnaround in upgrades.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

The problem is their plan looks identical to Vinny's and all of the other plans we've seen for the last several years. 1 pick in the 1st 3 rounds isn't good enough.

Posted by: dcwun | April 6, 2010 1:34 PM |

Well one of them wasn't on them, so they had two and who says that the 2nd round pick was going to be o-line. It could have been young QB to play behind JC, well now you get young QB next year when the pickens are better and play behind Mcnabb 1000 times better scenario.

Posted by: Flounder21 | April 6, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

A true Republican at it's best....

Unlike that transparency from President Obama? Every bill online for 3 days for the people to review? No lobbyists in his Administration?

Please.

I know, sports not politics but I couldn't help myself.

Posted by: SteveMG | April 6, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

McNabb was the wrong move, hear we go again trying to a quick fix. All Jason Campbell needed was an offensive line and taller receivers. Mr. Synders getting a great tax write off wasting money;but however giving him advice needs to go elsewhere.Getting rid of Greg Williams and Al Saunders caused the Skins dearly. Jason Campbell will have a Superbowl ring in less than four years. Cowboys should pick him up Romo is a bum and McNabb chokes when it counts. Good Luck Jason

Posted by: ronaldhgary | April 6, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Exhibit A: Daniel Snyder and the Washington Redskins

Exhibit B: Retread veteran player(s) divisional opponents WANT to get rid of

Exhibit C: $100 million defensive tackle not wanting to be a team player or play tackle anymore.

Conclusion : Al Davis is sane.

Posted by: BigTrees | April 6, 2010 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Agree, trying to get rid of Haynesworth would be a major mistake given the lack of depth already at DT. And this guy did make a huge difference when he was on the field. On top of that, you've already payed him a boat load of money, no point of getting rid of him now. I like the "my way or the highway" approach of Shanny, but this would be going overboard.

Posted by: ga8085 | April 6, 2010 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Snyder gave up a 1st, 3rd and 4th..and huge signing bonuses.. Its not in Snyder's DNA to get nothing back on an investment.
It was the only reason Zorn was brought in for the last year.. improve the JC investment.
It will be a trade.. hopefully at least a 4th round pick.
A good clue will be to see who JC's Agent has as other clients and their respective teams.. That would indicate what owners the Agent has connections to and who may be on the JC shortlist of future teams.


Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2010 1:06 PM | Report abuse

------------------------------------

Actually, it was Gibbs that gave up those draft picks for JC. Gibbs was a good football coach, but thank heavens he had Bethard finding players for him when he won SBs, because he stunk as a GM.

Posted by: Ireland2 | April 6, 2010 1:34 PM |
========
Gibbs worked for Snyder....so it was Snyder and Gibbs who gave them up for JC. And Snyder who tried to trade JC for "picks to package" to move up to Sanchez last year.
Yeah.. about Gibbs not doing well as a personnel guy.. The WaPo has been kind to him not to bring up that infamous 2005 3 picks JC deal...clearly the worst draft deal of the skins history, if they only get a 4th in return for JC.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

veteran top 10 QB for 3-5 years - um...he didn't sign a contract, so right now, he's a 1-year rental...

but even if they don't they can get a premier LT at #4 and already got an elite QB, that's pretty stellar IMO - um, DMac has played how many full seasons in the last 5 years because of injury, and now he's going to be behind the WORST line in the NFL...and you think this is good....

They have time to make some moves to get more picks - by trading who? Cooley? Sorry that stupid, the end doesn't justify the means with that. Who else can they trade?? JC, sorry. CR, try again. LLandry, not even close.

You're looking at trading for CENTS on the dollar.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

flounder21

"No don't think so you can have all the pieces you want but they have a QB that is a big unknown. He will not make them better next year and there is no telling if he will ever get to an elite level."


I dunno about this as the iggles have a knack for letting guys go at the right moment.

The let B Dawkins go and replaced him with an unknown.

The let Tra Thomas and J Runyon go and found two tackles on the fly.

They released B Westbrook without a thought.

I think they have enough of an internal assessment of K Kolb to sense that he might be ready for prime time: after all, he's just as young as the pieces they've added to their offense over the past two seasons.

And if he isn't ready, M Vick now knows the offense enough to step in himself.

Yes, they are gambling with Kolb, and our hope as skins fans is that maybe this time they are worng.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

The contrast between mgmts treatment of Albert and Campbell is very telling about Shanahan's mgmt style.

If you work hard and cooperate, you get treated with more respect, even if they aren't in the teams plans. If you don't cooperate, you will be treated differently.

Very carrot and stick.

fwiw, sending Albert and Campbell to the Raiders, while it might seem like 'exile', might not be all the bad for the Raiders. Oakland won 5 games (which is more than us) and they play in a weak division.

They need a QB. Their DL already has Richard Seymour, putting Albert next to a stud like Seymour would make the Raiders a tough team to play.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dcwun | April 6, 2010 1:34 PM

You hit it right on. The Shanaplan appears to be non existant. Of course he has the right to upgrade his qb, but why wouldnt he go about getting some value for JC before he did so. Haters like Skinsneedagm will tell you that they couldnt have got any value but they could have got a second or a third before they killed his value. Shanahan is a great coach but still a below average GM.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | April 6, 2010 1:44 PM | Report abuse

I never post here, but most of you skins fans are a joke. Guys like BeanownGreg and Skinsalicous (sp?) and many many many more jokes of fans. Any person who does not agree with this move is simply trying to get attention. There are always people who want to be “different” and stand out from the bunch, and that is all they are doing. McNabb instantly makes this a better football team, and anyone who knows the least bit about football knows that.
Ask yourself this, could you really see Jason Campbell leading this team in the playoffs?? Puhlease. This was the best move made under Snyder’s regime, by far.
I see idiots comparing this to Deion, Bruce, Carrier, etc. Those guys were at the tail end of their careers and they were signed as FREE AGENTS. Big difference between those moves and this one. Deion already won 2 rings, had nothing left to prove, got his check and left. Bruce was 38, nuff said. (He actually had 58 tackles and 10 sacks, not too bad for a 38 year old).
And then you have the idiots who say “build through the draft”. The Lions have been building through the draft for how long??? Take a look at the Saints roster and tell me how many of their players were drafted by them?? (Shockey, Vilma, BREES, Sharper, Goodwin, McCray, Greer, etc) Who’s to say we were going to get a stud with the 37th pick, let alone the 4th overall pick. The draft is legal gambling, plain and simple. For every Peyton Manning there is a Ryan Leaf. The eagles have stockpiled draft picks, SO WHAT???? It means nothing. Get a grip on reality, this is an EXCELLENT move.

Posted by: cj658 | April 6, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Agree, trying to get rid of Haynesworth would be a major mistake given the lack of depth already at DT. And this guy did make a huge difference when he was on the field. On top of that, you've already payed him a boat load of money, no point of getting rid of him now. I like the "my way or the highway" approach of Shanny, but this would be going overboard.

Posted by: ga8085

Wrong! It's exactly how you do it!
You don't build a "Team" around one or two prima donna players. Get blue-collar hard workers that bust their azz'es and set the bad attitudes adrift.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | April 6, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

psp, we upgraded the qb from a 6/10, to an 8/10, but the line has regressed, so I'm not sure that those 2 things don't cancel themselves out.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:47 PM | Report abuse

No lobbyists in his Administration?


Posted by: SteveMG | April 6, 2010 1:40 PM |


You Lie!

(j/king but it is the truth at the same time)

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Wow.

I sure am glad to have read all those cherry-picked stats to discover that Donovan McNabb is really no better than Jason Campbell.

He sure had me fooled!

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | April 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse


I dunno about this as the iggles have a knack for letting guys go at the right moment.

The let B Dawkins go and replaced him with an unknown.

The let Tra Thomas and J Runyon go and found two tackles on the fly.

They released B Westbrook without a thought.

Posted by: MistaMoe

All good moves. Bill Walsh always felt it was better to let a guy go a year too early than a year too late. More often than not, it works out. Occasionally, it bites you. With Dawkins, he's getting paid big $$ elsewhere -- philly was smart to let him go.

More importantly for philly, they have lots of picks where they can bring in young talent to replace aging players.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

They have time to make some moves to get more picks - by trading who? Cooley? Sorry that stupid, the end doesn't justify the means with that. Who else can they trade?? JC, sorry. CR, try again. LLandry, not even close.

You're looking at trading for CENTS on the dollar.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Fine be negative, over react to one move before seeing the results, and look at just a part of the offseason picture and extrapolate that the next 5 years are doomed.

Personally, they have until year 3 before I start to criticize. They are trying to make the best out of the train wreck they inherited and they weren't the ones who kicked away our 3 and 6, or the 3 picks for JC, or have presided over outright terrible play and gave mediocre Campbell unchallenged support for 4 seasons. Obviously, they like me, many up here, and the rest of the league thought Campbell wasn't very good and fixing that problem was pretty important.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 6, 2010 1:49 PM | Report abuse

we have 1 pick right now, in the first 3 rounds.....that cannot continue to happen...the team cannot continue to be run in this manner....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:25 PM

This is why you don't let the kids open their Christmas presents early. Christmas day comes and they say "Santa didn't bring me anything....this cannot continue to happen."

Hey, we have three picks in the first three rounds, but only one of them is a surprise. We've already unwrapped two gifts, and mighty fine gifts they were. With the second round pick we selected McNabb. With the third round pick we selected Jarmon.

If we wrap them back up and open them on draft day will that make you feel better?

Posted by: League-Source | April 6, 2010 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Compare JC's career NFC east record, 4-21 to McNabb's NFC record.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM |

In the last 5 years, McNabb is 11-15 vs the NFC East.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:36 PM
================
I think JC has only started 4 years.. ??

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Well one of them wasn't on them, so they had two and who says that the 2nd round pick was going to be o-line. It could have been young QB to play behind JC, well now you get young QB next year when the pickens are better and play behind Mcnabb 1000 times better scenario.

Posted by: Flounder21

I would agree that the QB crop is better next year. Here's the thing, there are 3 O-line spots that need to be filled. Career back up Artis Hicks isn't the answer either. We needed RB help too so we go out and sign 2 old RBs?

Seems like a lot of the same old stuff to me.

Posted by: dcwun | April 6, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

"but the line has regressed, so I'm not sure that those 2 things don't cancel themselves out.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

Not if we get a tackle at #4. Then the line has significantly upgraded. You can cover for one weak link by adjusting blocking assignments. It gets a lot harder when you have to do it on both sides of the line. Shore up the LT spot (especially with an elite player), and this line becomes more than adequate. Get 2 tackles, even if one is a vet FA like Adams, and it becomes a good offensive line.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

So, it makes sense that he said Dan and Mike...He proba hasn't had alot of discussions with Bruce.....Bruce won't be making draft picks....HE just controls the message and wha comes out of the Park....

A true Republican at it's best....

Posted by: 4thFloor | April 6, 2010 1:36 PM | Report abuse


Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought it was the other way around. Dan signs checks/stays out of the way and BA and MS collaborate on who to acquire with BA primarily focusing on contract neg... key focus on Dan staying out of the way.. I could be reading too much into it, but to me it was a tiny red flag.

Posted by: skinsfanintampa | April 6, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Fine be negative, over react to one move before seeing the results, and look at just a part of the offseason picture and extrapolate that the next 5 years are doomed.

The results are that they don't have a LT, a RT, nor a 2nd round pick, they got better at qb, but how good is DMac gonna be flat on his back??

cj, go play in traffic...I liked you better when you never posted...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

It is possible to agree that McNabb is a much better upgrade over Campbell while also saying that the other needs of the team needed more attention and should have been addressed first.

It's not either/or.

Building through the draft doesn't guarantee success any more than building through trades does. But the teams that today are among the elites over the years - the Pats, the Colts, the Steelers - did so through the draft.

Look at the Saints. They made a brilliant move signing Brees but the rest of that roster has been accumulated through the draft. Drafts that, granted, they've screwed up until Payton came along.

Smart drafting complemented with FA and trades.

Posted by: SteveMG | April 6, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:25 PM

I agree with you a little but you just have to look at as if DMcNabb was your 2nd rounder this year. If someone told you the Skins could get a QB guaranteed to be of McNabb's quality at No. 37, wouldn't you agree they should draft him? At least now, you can be assured they will go O-line at #4 like you want. Before this deal that likely was not going to be the case.

_____________________________________


Great perspective!! Well thought out. Kudos BeantownGreg1

Posted by: jp2583 | April 6, 2010 1:55 PM | Report abuse

for everyone crying over JC, who is now in a "snit" and working out at Curves in Herndon...

CecIVC Wrote:

You stat-maniacs who love to tout JC's 'improvement' over the years, why not look at the major statistic: his ability to win.

Over the course of his career while behind by one TD or less, JC has racked up 14 TDs and 12 INTs.

Last year, in the same situation, 7 TDs to 7 INTs.

Over the course of his career with the game difference being one TD or less (where he needs to lead a comeback or put the nail in the coffin), JC has racked up 30 TDs and 22 INTs.

Last year, 12 TDs, 12 INTs.

Finally, and here's the kicker, when behind in the 4th quarter by less than 7 or tied in OT, career 10 TDs and 11 INTs.

Last year, 0 TDs & 3 INTs.

These are not even including final 'drives' that end in 4 & outs (a la SD week 17) he's barely above .500 in his ability to not lose the game.

Now let's compare to his competition from the NFC East:

Tony Romo:
2009 Season
Behind by 1 TD: 7 TD-2 INT; Within 1 TD: 21 TD-7 INT; 4th Quarter Within 1TD: 4 TD-1 INT

Donovan McNabb
2009 Season
Behind by 1 TD: 4 TD-2 INT; Within 1 TD: 14 TD-6 INT; 4th Quarter Within 1TD: 0 TD-1 INT

Eli Manning
2009 Season
Behind by 1 TD: 7 TD-3 INT; Within 1 TD: 14 TD-7 INT; 4th Quarter Within 1TD: 3 TD-1 INT

As clearly shown here, JC is significantly behind the curve when it comes to NFC East QBs.
And just for kicks, here's the Superbowl QBs stats:
Drew Brees
2009 Season
Behind by 1 TD: 11 TD-2 INT; Within 1 TD: 25 TD-5 INT; 4th Quarter Within 1TD: 5 TD-0 INT
Peyton Manning
2009 Season
Behind by 1 TD: 9 TD-2 INT; Within 1 TD: 23 TD-9 INT; 4th Quarter Within 1TD: 6 TD-1 INT
Bottom line, when it matters, JC fails.

Posted by: CecIVC

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

"I never post here, but most of you skins' fans are a joke."

As one of the jokesters, I welcome your insult.

There's nothing like a guy who says, "I don't have much to say, but you guys talk too much."

Our daily rants have focused on a desire for the team to stockpile picks and offensive linemen.

I know in your very serious mind this sounds goofy, but as we scan around the league, we bloggas see that the annual contenders build offensive/defensive lines first, backfields, receivers, second.

So if our plan for rebuilding the team is the caprice of 'jokes' we have only one question:

What's yours?

Feel free to entertain us with your answer.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Fine be negative, over react to one move before seeing the results, and look at just a part of the offseason picture and extrapolate that the next 5 years are doomed.

The results are that they don't have a LT, a RT, nor a 2nd round pick, they got better at qb, but how good is DMac gonna be flat on his back??

cj, go play in traffic...I liked you better when you never posted...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Right, Shanahan is going to go into the season without addressing the oline.......why don't you get a clue, historically Shanny has had some of the most dominant running games, solid olines and uses bootlegs, rollouts, and shotgun to move the pocket and give his QB time and his oline an advantage. He will address the line, he will improve our production, and McNabb's experience, mobility, and quicker decision making alone will make the line better.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 6, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

If the only requirement to being a successful NFL GM is "stockpiling picks" then every person on this board is qualified to run an NFL team.

Call me crazy, but I think there might be a few more nuances to managing a team.

I like the move for DM; and since it's only April 6, I'll withold judgment on Allen/Shanahan and their approach for a bit longer.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | April 6, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2010 1:54 PM

How many times in the past two years was Samuels the only quality player on the line? How did that work out? Even if Okung comes in and plays well Rabach still sucks and the right side of the line is still a mystery. Adams either gets flagged for false starts or personal fouls we dont need him. People need to admit that the Shanahan era is off to questionable start. I know there is plenty of time before the start of the season but they have signed nothing but backup quality old guys and have not garnered any additional draft picks despite having some parts they could move. You like to give them the benefit of the doubt but its not looking good so far.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | April 6, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Newsflash to all of the Chicken Littles out there.... it is April 6th.

Posted by: skinsfanintampa | April 6, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Can some bright, fact-based person quickly make a list of the players added to the redskins since the start of FA?

I bet it's the longest in the league to date.

We released 10 guys have added about 20.

Our so it seems.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: cj658 | April 6, 2010 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Have to say, I agree with most of what you said.

Now I disagree with some of the posters giving the Eagles WAY too much credit for getting rid of some veterans. As I recall, the Eagles offensive line struggled mightily at times, and were not even close to being healthy at the start of the season. They missed Dawkins - plain and simple, the nobody they replaced him with wasn't great. Let's not crown the Eagles as geniuses.

Posted by: ga8085 | April 6, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

"But the teams that today are among the elites over the years - the Pats, the Colts, the Steelers - did so through the draft."

I wouldn't include the Pats in that discussion.

Their team building has come by way of many outside acquisitions like Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison, Ted Washington, Roosevelt Colvin, Adalius Thomas, Derrick Burgess, Donte Stallworth, Junior Seau, etc.

Their list is nearly as long as ours when it comes to FA/trades.

And nobody will argue with their success.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:25 PM

I agree with you a little but you just have to look at as if DMcNabb was your 2nd rounder this year. If someone told you the Skins could get a QB guaranteed to be of McNabb's quality at No. 37, wouldn't you agree they should draft him? At least now, you can be assured they will go O-line at #4 like you want. Before this deal that likely was not going to be the case.
===============
Or, as a football genius said on here Sunday evening when the Deal was announced.

"The best available QB at #4 was available at #37."

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | April 6, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Right, Shanahan is going to go into the season without addressing the oline.......why don't you get a clue, historically Shanny has had some of the most dominant running games, solid olines and uses bootlegs, rollouts, and shotgun to move the pocket and give his QB time and his oline an advantage. He will address the line, he will improve our production, and McNabb's experience, mobility, and quicker decision making alone will make the line better.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 6, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Right on. But there are only three ways to get quality offensive lineman -- the draft, a trade, and free agency, right? Well, as of today we have one pick in the first 4 rounds, and usually, since O-Lineman are so important, teams don't decide to cut them in the offseason. So the best you'll find on the FA market is a quick fix band-aid guy like Levi Jones. A trade can't happen, unless we say "F-it" and give up ANOTHER future draft pick. That's why I am curious to see what we do. Not saying the sky is falling, but at the same time we don't have a plethora of options at our disposal right now...just one man's opinion.

Posted by: mattylight | April 6, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Wrong! It's exactly how you do it!
You don't build a "Team" around one or two prima donna players. Get blue-collar hard workers that bust their azz'es and set the bad attitudes adrift.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | April 6, 2010 1:46 PM | Report abuse

So please, enlighten me. What has Albert done so far that makes him have a bad attitude or makes him a prima donna? Missing off season workout because he already planned to have his own workout routine before Shanny got here? So going by your logic, Shanny should of never gotten Larry Johnson and should of gotten rid of Portis already.

Posted by: ga8085 | April 6, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Diesel44 | April 6, 2010 1:39 PM

I don't think you or Greg comprehended my post. I was merey telling BG that considering what he wants this is better because the Skins were going to take a QB at #4 if they didn't pull this off. Now they'll go OT at #4 and they have a Pro-Bowl QB for that 37th pick rather than a not-so-sure thing OT. For those of the win now persuasion, this is a good move. I would have preferred building through the draft but as Skins fans this is the life we've chosen.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 6, 2010 2:11 PM | Report abuse

With our track record, I understand it's hard to get excited about anything without seeing it on the field...

-BUT-

Donovan is a better QB than Jason Campbell

Posted by: rickyroge | April 6, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

I'll withold judgment on Allen/Shanahan and their approach for a bit longer.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | April 6, 2010 2:03 PM

This is a little wishy-washy, namby-pamby, isn't it? Free agency has been going on for like three or four weeks and you haven't made up your mind?

You're not like the rest of us, are you? You could at least point out a few obvious things like "the RBs are old" or "we don't have a lot of picks" or "we need to replace Chris Samuels." That will show you're at least awake.

Guys with a keen grasp of the obvious come here and THEY can assert the failure of the franchise. Shoot, even Mike Wise did it this morning, so it can't be that hard.

Posted by: League-Source | April 6, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Now you're going to tell me the Redskins haven't dramatically upgraded their roster over what we had last season? This isn't a minimal upgrade. This is borderline reaching Boston Celtics level of turnaround in upgrades.

Posted by: psps23 |

Ganther had 3 rushing TDs in 62 carries. Portis + Parker + LJ had 1 rushing TD in 400 carries (not a typo -- 400 carries!!). Upgrade?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

They have time to make some moves to get more picks - by trading who? Cooley? Sorry that stupid, the end doesn't justify the means with that. Who else can they trade?? JC, sorry. CR, try again. LLandry, not even close.

You're looking at trading for CENTS on the dollar.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

This is what makes "win now" such an absurdity. Donovan said it, but Shanahan did it by trading precious picks to sign him. So yes, Coach appears to lack the patience that is required given the talent level here.

Also, was it me or did McNabb seem listless during the press conference -- depressed even?

Posted by: Pepper5 | April 6, 2010 2:13 PM | Report abuse

It feels grrrrrrreat to finally have football people in charge who know what they are doing

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 6, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Here's a good take on this from the Bog:

"By getting rid of this year's second rounder in the McNabb deal, Washington now has just one pick out of the first 90 later this month; Philadelphia has five in that span. Washington has a total of four picks this year; Philadelphia has 11. That's a pretty stark difference. One of these teams has played 18 playoff games over the past decade. The other has played three. That's a stark difference, too.

This is a pattern that's developed over time. And Washington's draft-pick deficit has been most noticeable at the top, with the picks that theoretically matter the most."

Posted by: mattylight | April 6, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Eagles were too cheap to resign Dawkins and thought he was done. He significantly made Denver better in the secondary and the Eagles are now looking to draft a safety. They traded for Jason Peters and threw money at Stacy Andrews. Their line still sucked. They are a team that is going to be good more often than not but will never win it all because of money/philosophical reasons. Why don't some of you clowns root for them if you love the way they do business.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | April 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

I have never seen so many people jump on a rumor like this…..It’s usually the other way around up here (blasting Jreid or Lacanfora for spreading unfounded rumors to stir the pot). The only thing going on with the Haynesworth scenario is that he is skipping the OTA’s to work out on his own (by the way, the “O” is for “optional”), and that he has gone on record as saying he will do whatever these new coaches tell him to do. He even met with Shanahan about it. Shanahan says he respects it but isn’t happy about it. What else is he supposed to say? Everything else is RUMORS. Call me when he skips a mini-camp because he refuse to play NT or heard that the skins tried to ship him out. The other side of the coin says he’s got a chip on his shoulder and wants to come back in shape and whoop some tail this year.

Trading him would be galactically stupid unless you can get two 1st rounders for him at a minimum….the guy is the best DT in the game, and makes it VERY hard for other teams to convert 3rd or 4th and shorts. Check the film from last year. Our D was money on 3rd/4th and 1. You trade him (and someone even suggested for a 2nd rounder????) and you lose that. I don’t remember anyone yelling to trade saint Sean Taylor when he wouldn’t even so much as return Gibb’s calls…..
And throw in names like Cooley, Rogers, Landry, and someone even said Fletcher? These are starters we are talking about…..you don’t get as much return on guys like this when you are getting a 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders…….trading for the sake of trading is wrong unless it comes down to either trade a guy or cut him and get nothing. Trading Campbell now makes sense….there is no place for him on this roster, but if you think you can only get a 4th rounder for him now, hold on until pre-season when somebody’s starter goes down and they get desperate.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

"How many times in the past two years was Samuels the only quality player on the line?"

When he was actually healthy? I'd say once...the beginning of 2008.

And we were pretty decent back then. Rabach was still our center. Pete Kendall was replaced by Derrick Dockery (a wash in my book).

Sure, a healthy Randy Thomas was better than Mike Williams or Artis Hicks. But the Jon Jansen/Stephon Heyer combo at RT wasn't. And those two certainly weren't better than Adams.

Again, we don't know how they plan to address the right side of the line. Who knows, maybe we make a move for Jared Gaither while still drafting Okung/Williams.

This offseason is far from over. And if what has transpired so far is any indication, nobody has any idea what tricks may come out of Shanahan's hat.

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

I don't think you or Greg comprehended my post. I was merey telling BG that considering what he wants this is better because the Skins were going to take a QB at #4 if they didn't pull this off

You got something you can back that up with, or how do you know they were taking a qb at #4??


Now they'll go OT at #4 - which they've backed themselved into a corner with. Because they could have taken Suh, or Berry. But now, teams behind us know that we have no choice but to take an OT with the #4, thus reducing our ability to trade out of it. You think KC/BUFF or anyone within the top 10 is worried about jumping up to get a player who ISN'T an OT??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I understand now that Phillydelphia is gonna draft 11 pro bowlers and Washington is gonna draft 4 busts

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 6, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

borderline reaching Boston Celtics level of turnaround in upgrades.

Posted by: psps23 |

How? We go get 1 player... 1 solid player, yes a QB, but still 1 player and were looking at a Boston Celtics level of turnaround? Thats retarded psp. Mcnabb will not win us a championship. He will win more than 8 games next year (with the current roster as is... withholding judgement to see what other retarded moves we make in the next 3-4 weeks).

Mcnabb is a massive upgrade over JC but by no means does this make us a good team. We are still mediocre, like every other year for the last 11. Could win 10 games if were really lucky, could lose 10 games if were really unlucky... most likely we'll go 8-8.

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | April 6, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse


The fun facts I put up earlier about Donovan point to one important thing. He's lost a lot of his mobility. He made Pro Bowls from 2000-2004. If you look at those years, his passing numbers weren't that great in some of those seasons -- but his running numbers were big -- which is what got him to the PRo Bowl.

Now, his yds/carry are way down and got sacked with about the same frequency as Campbell. McNabb's OL may have had some issues last year, but it was better than what we had by a lot.

I'm more or less with Beantown on this one -- I'd have rather used the #2 pick on an OT (perhaps in trade for Gaither if he checked out) and the #3 next year on a replacement for Rabach.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 2:19 PM | Report abuse

One of these teams has played 18 playoff games over the past decade. The other has played three. That's a stark difference, too

Posted by: mattylight | April 6, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

And we just got the QB that took Philly to those 18 playoff games. So that could mean a stark shift in the NFC East, no?

Posted by: skinsfanintampa | April 6, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

McNabb is on the Johnson Thompson show. Thompson asked McNabb if he discussed the OL situation with Shanahan, he said he feels confident the right players will be there (on the OL) to make the offense work.

Posted by: TWISI | April 6, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

McNabb is on the Johnson Thompson show. Thompson asked McNabb if he discussed the OL situation with Shanahan, he said he feels confident the right players will be there (on the OL) to make the offense work.

Posted by: TWISI | April 6, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

One thing most of you who getting your panties in a bunch about lack of picks are forgetting Jarmon is essentially a pick this year via supplemental draft (one of the smartest moves cerratto ever made) so that has to be factored.

And BG, maybe we should judge somewhat once they actually you know play the games, UFB

(There is nothing more fun on RI then using some Beantown gregisms against him!)

Posted by: chrislarry | April 6, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Eagles were too cheap to resign Dawkins and thought he was done. He significantly made Denver better in the secondary and the Eagles are now looking to draft a safety. They traded for Jason Peters and threw money at Stacy Andrews. Their line still sucked. They are a team that is going to be good more often than not but will never win it all because of money/philosophical reasons. Why don't some of you clowns root for them if you love the way they do business.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | April 6, 2010 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Amen brother! lol

And yeah, McNabb did look a little listless in the press conference. Probably too much chunky soup before the presser.

Posted by: ga8085 | April 6, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ga8085 | April 6, 2010 2:11 PM

AH is lazy, and too out of shape for the $ he gets. The D needs him most on 3rd downs to stop the opponent, too often last year, and years in Tenn too, he takes himself out. There are players that play all downs you know this right?
I wish they never picked up Larry Johnson because of his personal issues, and CP, well yes, I'd like him set adrift too, but figure he'll get beat in camp by another RB.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | April 6, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

YES...we need a left and right tackle...BUT...

This O-line with Zorn/Campbell and this O-line with Shanahan and McNabb will be different.

Posted by: rickyroge | April 6, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

I understand now that Phillydelphia is gonna draft 11 pro bowlers and Washington is gonna draft 4 busts

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 6, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Quite witty, though I think it's pretty safe to say the percentages are in their favor to draft more impact players, wouldn't you say?

Posted by: mattylight | April 6, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

fwiw, I keep hearing the comparisons of McNabb to Elway and to Favre. McNabb is a very good QB, but he isn't either of those guys.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

And we still have the #4 overall pick.

And Shanahan isn't done wheelin' and dealin'.

Posted by: psps23


Newsflash to all of the Chicken Littles out there.... it is April 6th.

Posted by: skinsfanintampa


Right, Shanahan is going to go into the season without addressing the oline.......why don't you get a clue, historically Shanny has had some of the most dominant running games, solid olines and uses bootlegs, rollouts, and shotgun to move the pocket and give his QB time and his oline an advantage. He will address the line, he will improve our production, and McNabb's experience, mobility, and quicker decision making alone will make the line better.

Posted by: zjfr2


Man, I'm so relieved to know there are still LOGICAL and RATIONAL fans still out there.

Co-sign on ALL the c&p post... especially zj. It's like people just KNOW with EVERY bone and thought in their bodies that THERE IS NO WAY that Shanahan will upgrade the line. That it is with 100% certainty that the offensive line will look the same on opening day... Although based on the man's reputation everything would say otherwise.

Yes, some of you need to get a damn clue...


Lot of people complaining out of ignorance up here.

Posted by: Curzon417

Posted by: RedDMV | April 6, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

yeah, cl, unfortunately there is no second round pick to judge in this instance...but we can keep tabs on who Philly picks...

thanks for the update on Jarmon, hope he can play LT.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

CJ is the trainee in "Waiting" and you all are Ryan Reynolds.

Posted by: KellRawLive | April 6, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

You got something you can back that up with, or how do you know they were taking a qb at #4??


Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:17 PM

You can't be that thick. Does everything have to be explicit before you accept it. They traded their 37th pick and a pick next year for a QB. They wanted an upgrade at the position. In my world, that's enough circumstantial evidence to convict.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 6, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"thanks for the update on Jarmon, hope he can play LT.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg"

Yeah b/c the Skins have been so well stocked at young defensive lineman the last 10 years....

Posted by: chrislarry | April 6, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

you heard it here first some team is going to jump ahead of us to #3 and draft Okung and then we will draft Eric Berry FS Tennessee with the #4 pick.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | April 6, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

red, at no point in time did ANYONE say the line will look the same...that was categorically NEVER STATED.

What has been stated is that the team has NO LT currently. A SUB-STANDARD RT currently. A SUB-STANDARD CENTER currently, and a SUB-STANDARD RG, currently. It would have been nice to use the 1st and 2nd round picks on the line.

Do you understand what I'm saying??

Now I realize that simply changing to a zone blocking scheme is gonna make Heyer a pro=bowler, but I'm skeptical...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

This trade is a total game changer for us...we have just become a legit playoff contender... we have upgraded by a factor 10 the most important position on the field.... you guys debate stats or age or what we gave up ...fact is mcnab is a playmaker and a legit leader who lifts the conidence of his team..... that can't be quantified by stats.....

In shanny he has a coach who believes in running the football and letting that set up his QB to make plays...reid is the other way round and mcnab found himself carrying the birds as far as he could.... i sense the older elway/shanny combo way of doing things...not say'n...

Posted by: OriginalOldschool1 | April 6, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

This trade is a total game changer for us...we have just become a legit playoff contender... we have upgraded by a factor 10 the most important position on the field.... you guys debate stats or age or what we gave up ...fact is mcnab is a playmaker and a legit leader who lifts the conidence of his team..... that can't be quantified by stats.....

In shanny he has a coach who believes in running the football and letting that set up his QB to make plays...reid is the other way round and mcnab found himself carrying the birds as far as he could.... i sense the older elway/shanny combo way of doing things...not say'n...

Posted by: OriginalOldschool1 | April 6, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | April 6, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Name me one DT that plays the whole game? I don't think Albert was happy with his performance last yr, and he'll be in better shape this yr. You say he took himself out on key downs, but I remember him making a lot of stops on key 3 & 4th downs.
Getting back to the draft logic some of you have, I don't understand it? Your basically saying the O line will be crap because they spent their 2nd round pick on McNabb. This makes no sense, because if they would have spent their 1st rounder on a OT, chances were strong that they would of spent the 2nd on a...drum roll..QB!

Posted by: ga8085 | April 6, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

One thing most of you who getting your panties in a bunch...

Posted by: chrislarry | April 6, 2010 2:20 PM

Panties!

Also, F cL.

Posted by: 4-12 | April 6, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

"How? We go get 1 player... 1 solid player, yes a QB, but still 1 player and were looking at a Boston Celtics level of turnaround?"

Have you not paid attention to anything that's happened this offseason?

Mike Shanahan -- Jim Zorn
Donovan McNabb -- Jason Campbell
Larry Johnson -- Ladell Betts
Willie Parker -- Rock Cartwright
Artis Hicks -- Will Montgomery

And my money is on this as well:

OT#4 -- Levi Jones

Seriously? You can't see the stark difference in talent and ability on the field and on the sideline?

Seriously?

Posted by: psps23 | April 6, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Why has this turned into a JC vs. McNabb debate? McNabb is a definite upgrade and this is a QB league

The debate should be how some of the more successful teams build consistent contenders (Pats, Colts, Steelers, Eagles, Giants) vs. how and why we have 2 winning seasons the last 10 years.

Posted by: Diesel44 | April 6, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

skinshaveaGM- thats not the point. Having 11 draft picks allows you to replenish the well, so to speak. Allows you to bring in 11, hungry guys who want to make a name for themselves. 11 guys who have untapped potential that you can coach up and make into solid core players for your team. 11 guys who are 20-23.

Having only 4 picks year in and year out curtails that. It only brings in 4 players. It makes each bust a bigger deal. Say the Eagles use all 11 picks, don't trade any. Say they draft 5 busts, meaningg 5/11 players suck. 5 players who don't even make it out of their first training camp, that stil leave 6 other plays who did make it. 6 other players who could become eventual starters, or role players or stars even.

Now, for the Redskins, say we get super lucky and only 1 of those 4 players we draft is a bust. Meaning 3/4 make the roster. That still leaves us 3 players behind the Eagles in young talented players... And more likely its more like we'll have 2 if not 3 of those draft picks bust out because we suck at drafting... (maybe because WE NEVER DO IT.)....

Either way, you build a championship caliber team, a consistent winner, by drafting young, potential laiden players... not by signing/trading for aging vets on the downsides of their careers and in turn give them millions of dollars.

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | April 6, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

This trade is a total game changer for us...we have just become a legit playoff contender... we have upgraded by a factor 10 the most important position on the field.... you guys debate stats or age or what we gave up ...fact is mcnab is a playmaker and a legit leader who lifts the conidence of his team..... that can't be quantified by stats.....

In shanny he has a coach who believes in running the football and letting that set up his QB to make plays...reid is the other way round and mcnab found himself carrying the birds as far as he could.... i sense the older elway/shanny combo way of doing things...not say'n...

Posted by: OriginalOldschool1 | April 6, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

cl, versus the young ol players they're stocked with...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Did someone mention Skins 3rd round pick, Jeremy Jarmon? Ripped his ACL last year. Certainly no lock to be fully recovered by August. "Less than a year later, he's a man without a position in the team's new 3-4 defense. Chances are he'll have to switch to outside linebacker."

Basically a bust at this point. Serious injury so no one will part with much for him and he no longer actually fits into the Redskins' plans.

Posted by: Pepper5 | April 6, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

The OL is what killed this team last year. Well that and incompetence from the HC on up. We were in the 5 worst in both sacks and yds/carry. Couldn't pass block, couldn't run block.

We have 2 adequate OL in Dockery and Rabach -- neither is a threat to make a Pro Bowl. We have ??? at LT, RT and RG. The #4 overall can only fill one of those holes.

This OL will be good when Dockery and Rabach are the OL's weak links, not the top players.

McNabb will need a good OL. He isn't the very mobile guy he was a few year back.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Beaner, I got it!! Shanny is gonna go out to the practice field, plant 3 seeds in the ground, and with enough care and nurishment, 3 stud offensive lineman are gonna grow right in time for training camp...either that or on draft day Allen will go take a huge crap and 2 will fall right out of his @ss...whew, I feel better now...

Posted by: mattylight | April 6, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

And so the Mc Shannahallabb era begins!

Posted by: jgarrisn | April 6, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

YES...we need a left and right tackle...BUT...

This O-line with Zorn/Campbell and this O-line with Shanahan and McNabb will be different.

Posted by: rickyroge | April 6, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse


And to add to that.. McNabb doesn't hold on to the ball as long as Cambbell and doesnt have as long of a throwing motion, meaning he should be able to release the ball alot quicker than JC.


Posted by: skinsfanintampa | April 6, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Old School, see what happens when you miss the OTAs?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | April 6, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Campbell could probably find a couple of teams who would trade for him if he were willing to take back-up QB pay.

Posted by: coparker5 | April 6, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

"Why don't some of you clowns root for them if you love the way they do business."

I might love how another man's wife cooks, but it doesn't mean I want to f!ck her.

So I can watch how other teams operate from afar without a desire to root for them.

And why can't a fan criticize his own team all in the name of wanting it to play better?

The things folks are posting aren't meant to be negative, it's just that some of us are natural born skeptics.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Ga8085, zjfr2, well said, both of you. It’s good to see some intelligent quotes that make sense.

BeanTwonGreg, MistaMoe: You guys seem like intelligent fans, but you just tend to get all wound up to easily. As many other rational fans have stated, there is still PLENTY of time for Shanny to make moves. Do you really think he is not aware of the O-Line situation?? Come on, check his resume, he is all about O-Line play. You two need to relax. And both of you make it sound as if stock piling draft picks is the solution. Well, it is not. And to the poster who said the Saints built through the draft, see my above post (Sharper, Shockey, Vilma, Goodwin, Brees, etc).

McNabb and Campbell do not even belong in the same sentence. Period. We all know it.

Posted by: cj658 | April 6, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

triple post for emphasis..... my bad

Posted by: OriginalOldschool1 | April 6, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

McNabb is on the Johnson Thompson show. Thompson asked McNabb if he discussed the OL situation with Shanahan, he said he feels confident the right players will be there (on the OL) to make the offense work.

Posted by: TWISI | April 6, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse


Well, that solves it!

If McNabb feels confident the right players will be there, then there's no use worrying about it.

It's not like McNabb would spit out some non-controvesial company line to answer that question or anything.

I'd bet my next paycheck that McNabb doesn't even know who our Olinemen are...

Posted by: p1funk | April 6, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

For those who continue to write or imply claim that McNabb was acquired for a 2nd round pick, please note:

McNabb was acquired for one year for a purchase price of a second round pick this year and a third round or fourth round pick next year.

Thank you!

Posted by: Pepper5 | April 6, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Shanny on Comcast.net

"We're going to have 5-6 (QBs) just learning the offense because it takes awhile to get this offense down. Take a look at Phillip Rivers. How long did he sit? The best case for us would be to get a young QB in, let him backup, and sit and learn. Even if it is a 1st round QB. So you never what may happen on draft day."

Posted by: TWISI | April 6, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Now I realize that simply changing to a zone blocking scheme is gonna make Heyer a pro=bowler, but I'm skeptical...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:28 PM | Report abuse

you're not skeptical, you're an idiot. First off, you mentioned three positions of needs being fixed by two picks. Secondly, BMW was pretty strong at RG at the end of the year and Hicks is a solid pick/backup there. You still have Rhino as a young backup and you can get quality backup guard prospects in the 4th or 5th round. LT will be addressed either with our #4 pick or if we trade back perhaps we get both tackles. Perhaps we get Okung and Gaither. Perhaps we trade back and get Williams and Baluga/Campbell/Brown/Saffold. Perhaps we get Okung, re-sign Levi, and trade Rogers or Haynesworth or Carter or Landry or Campbell for a RT. There are still plenty of options that can be done and will be done to address the line. And they just majorly upgraded the most important position on the field, I guy used to working with young receivers and making them better, a guy that until recently (coincidentally when their offense got really dangerous) has rarely worked with a talented tight end much less two, a guy that knows our division, knows the opponents intimately and might help us get prepared for our Philly games a little bit on defense, and a guy who is a true leader who can mentor a fairly young skill group, a next year to be gotten QB of the future, and a oline going through some necessary turnover over the next few years. IMO considering we had 5 picks only to begin with, giving away a 2nd for everything that McNabb brings with him it was a solid move and I look forward to seeing how they continue to makeover the roster of the rest of the offseason and next years while staying competitive.

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 6, 2010 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Phillydelphia are gonna be winners forever and eternity. They are so smart. If I wasn't a Washington fan, I swear I'd be a Phillydelphia fan. They never screw the pooch.

Posted by: skinshaveaGM | April 6, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Not good: use #4 pick for a QB
So-so: use #37 pick + 3rd in '11 for McNabb
Good: use #37 pick for OT and 3rd in '11 for a C

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

YES...we need a left and right tackle...BUT...
This O-line with Zorn/Campbell and this O-line with Shanahan and McNabb will be different.
Posted by: rickyroge | April 6, 2010 2:21 PM | Report abuse

And to add to that.. McNabb doesn't hold on to the ball as long as Cambbell and doesnt have as long of a throwing motion, meaning he should be able to release the ball alot quicker than JC.

Posted by: skinsfanintampa | April 6, 2010 2:33 PM

Add to that:
They are switching to a hybrid 3-4 defense which will “create more turnovers”, which will of course translate to more points.

Take it all to the bank.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | April 6, 2010 2:40 PM | Report abuse

We have 2 adequate OL in Dockery and Rabach -- neither is a threat to make a Pro Bowl. We have ??? at LT, RT and RG. The #4 overall can only fill one of those holes.

This OL will be good when Dockery and Rabach are the OL's weak links, not the top players.

McNabb will need a good OL. He isn't the very mobile guy he was a few year back.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

It's weird that people can't simply face up to this hard fact. The truth hurts, baby.

Posted by: Pepper5 | April 6, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps we get Okung and Gaither

Sure, but thats what, mortgaging next years draft picks to get a player. Yeah, thats worked so well for us....

At the very least, it would take either a #1, or a #2 to get Gaither.

good call...but I'm the idiot...check...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I dunno about this as the iggles have a knack for letting guys go at the right moment.

The let B Dawkins go and replaced him with an unknown.

The let Tra Thomas and J Runyon go and found two tackles on the fly.

They released B Westbrook without a thought.

Posted by: MistaMoe

All good moves. Bill Walsh always felt it was better to let a guy go a year too early than a year too late. More often than not, it works out. Occasionally, it bites you. With Dawkins, he's getting paid big $$ elsewhere -- philly was smart to let him go.

More importantly for philly, they have lots of picks where they can bring in young talent to replace aging players.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse


These posts are only partially true. Ask knowledgeable Eagles fans. They will tell you that releasing Brian Dawkins was a HUGE mistake, as it left a massive void at safety that teams frequently exploited. They will also tell you that the Eagles offensive line was shaky at best last year. Certainly not the quality of years past, and leaky enough to get McNabb killed against the Cowboys.

They will also tell you that for all the picks the Eagles stockpile, they whiff on a few OLs per year -- and whiff on a whole bunch of DTs per year in the draft. The advantage of drafting is that the mistakes cost less...but so far, Shanahan and Allen aren't setting any spending records.

The Eagles do believe in the Bill Walsh philosophy that it's better to let a guy go too soon than too late. But let's not go overboard and grant them godlike status in the player evaluation department. They make their fair share of mistakes, but their coaching staff and core is good enough to mask those mistakes. And like z said, the Walsh philosophy works more than half the time.

Posted by: jcabana | April 6, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

cj658

"McNabb and Campbell do not even belong in the same sentence. Period. We all know it."



There's no doubt about this.

The doubt comes with using picks to get an older player.

The move seems suspiciously like the dirty deeds done by the previous redskin FO.

But what's done is done.

We have to assume McNabb will be extended, and that he has 3-4 solid seasons left in him.

Now let's see how the offensive line is going to be re-built.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 2:44 PM | Report abuse

"Bottom line? It's looking like the Redskins are willing to declare defeat regarding the Haynesworth deal and then move forward."

I can't agree with this as even if the team is dissatisfied with with Albert, sending him away means depending on a possibly unhealthy Kemoteau, Golston, and Montegomery for line play.

And why would you try to improve your O by bringing in McNabb, then subtract from your D by getting rid of Prince Al?

I say Mr. Haslett jumps in to mend fences with Haynesworth, and he gets another season at FEDEX.

And if Albert doesn't plase the second time around, he can huff and puff his way back to Tenn....

....with a boatload cash in tow.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 1:32 PM | Report abuse

A friend of mine always says "Consider the source". Now we find out that Jasno is the source of this whole story. You are right, Moe, it does not make any sense at all.

Posted by: frediefritz | April 6, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Why?

-Why should Shanahan feel any allegiance to Jason Campbell?

-Why do you think that Jason Campbell is a starter in this league? Is it possible Gibbs totally whiffed on him?

-Why to teams have declare they are "REBUILDING"?

-Why doesn't Shanahan and Allen get the benefit of the doubt? They have been here 3 months...Cerrato was here for 10 years.

-Why did people scream about not picking a QB at #4 because it's "too risky"...not that we've picked up a proven veteran, he's "too old"?

-Why in the hell would you release Jason Campbell without trying to get a return on the 3 picks you used to get him...this is a business.

-Why is the draft over three days?

-Why do I get the feeling that Claussen may be the real deal?

-Why can't we get C.J. Spiller?

-Why did Stephen Davis fumble on the 1 yard line against the Cardinals?

-Why didn't Carlos Rogers make that INT in Seattle?

Why?

Posted by: rickyroge | April 6, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Many people are saying that Shannaplan will upgrade the OL before the start of the season. Instead of giving a blanket statement..Here are the available avenues and players to upgrade the worst OL in the NFL. So have at it..

CURRENT OL
LT-Rookie
LG-Dockery
C-Rabach
RG- BMW
RT- Hicks

DRAFT
#4-Williams/Bulaga LT

REMAINING AVAILABLE UFA OT
Flozell Adams 12 yrs 6-7/340
Mike Gandy 9 yrs 6-4/310
Tra Thomas 12 yrs 6-7/317
Levi Jones 8 yrs 6-5/307
Damion McIntosh 10 yrs 6-4/328
Orlando Pace 12 yrs 6-7/320
Ephraim Salaam 12 yrs 6-7/310

ROSTER CUTS
??

UNDRAFTED FA
??

Posted by: Diesel44 | April 6, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

The bottom line is once agian the skins get taken. Mcnabb has been a greta player but he is on the downside. No one wanted to pony up what the eagles got from the skins not even the raiders. Dumb move.
This trade should have gone down like this:
our second for Mcnabb and the eagles 6rd pick next year. still not good but we still get another pick. everyone forgets in value we traded a first rounder for McNabb.

dumb, dumb, dumb. we will regret this.

Posted by: drpolarbear | April 6, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

co-sign moe's post above....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Question for those against the trade for Donovan.

When/How would you have addressed the QB position?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | April 6, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I think alot of the McNabb apologists are missing the point.

The question is not: "Is McNabb worth a 2nd round pick and a 3/4 next year?"

The question is: "Is McNabb worth a 2nd round pick and 3/4 next year TO THE SKINS?"

If Arizona or Minnesota were pulling off this deal, it would be pretty brilliant. They've got no use for 2nd or 3rd round picks right now given the state of their teams.

We have PLENTY of use for our draft picks considering the state of our team. Particularly if we are looking to also trade away guys like AH and LL30, then our team is going to suffer even a bigger talent drain.

This is a "short-run" "win-now" "one-player-away" "make-an-immediate-run-at-a-SuperBowl" and "mortgage-the-future" move. How can it be seen as anything else than that?? We've been torching the Skins for thinking that way for years. That was the thinking behind getting Jason Taylor, it was the thinking behind getting Albert Haynesworth, it was the thinking behind going after Archuleta/Llloy/Randle El/Smoot.

Our organization has been dying over the past decade b/c of moves like that...why is it suddenly going to work out for us now?? Just because it is Shanny pulling the trigger as opposed to Gibbs or Cerratto?

Doesn't make sense...

Posted by: p1funk | April 6, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

At the very least, it would take either a #1, or a #2 to get Gaither.

good call...but I'm the idiot...check...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

I said several scenarios, and I don't know what it would take to get Gaither. Last week it was a 2nd round pick according to reports and he hasn't been traded so maybe the price comes down some more, maybe they are interested in Rogers since they are very weak at corner, maybe they think Carter would be a good decision, maybe they want a ham sandwich Campbell, and 4ht. And a month ago it supposedly would take at least a 1 to get Mcnabb. Things are fluid in the offseason and we are still very early in it, why don't we wait and see what the team looks like week 1 before we declare the season and future already lost?

Posted by: zjfr2 | April 6, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

ppstr8, I'd have fixed the line, OT at #4, and OT at #37, and still brought back Levi for depth.

Once the line was not fixed, but exponentially better, I believe you'd have seen an improvement in the running game, which then trickles down to an improved passing game.

If JC STILL sucked with an improved line, I'd have used a high pick in 2011 to get a qb.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"They never screw the pooch."

How can you say this when Mike Vick might wind up as their starting quarterback?

History dictates he has screwed the pooch more than just a couple of times.

Posted by: MistaMoe | April 6, 2010 2:54 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | April 6, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Albert won't be going anywhere folks. This leak is Shanahan's way of letting him and any other primadonnas on the team know there is a new sheriff in town. Also I would expect Donovan to pick up the phone and tell him to come in. Jason does not have the stature to do that task. Did you see all the guys at the press conference. They have faith in Donovan already that they never had in JC period. Also they mentioned Donovan was already working out with the team this morning...none of that Brett Favre skipping camp crap. For all you negative fans keep in mind that Norv, Steve, Zorn were over matched period as coaches. Marty would have turned them around Gibbs came back as a favor to Snyder but the game had passed him by and his heart wasn't really in it. Shanahan had kept up with the game and the players and he is determinded as he mentioned at the press conference today to prove he should not have been dumped in Denver. Mcnabb also wants to show he is not done yet. We will win.

Posted by: anacostia85 | April 6, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

It's weird that people can't simply face up to this hard fact. The truth hurts, baby.

Well, to be fair they think between now and August/September that this organization will acquire ~3-5/6 solid starters/backups.

And that the draft picks will all come through (i.e., be ready to play from Day One) and other teams won't outbid them for the quality FAs.

That's asking a lot, it seems to me.

Let's hope so.

But if not....

Posted by: SteveMG | April 6, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Mike Shanahan -- Jim Zorn
Donovan McNabb -- Jason Campbell
Larry Johnson -- Ladell Betts
Willie Parker -- Rock Cartwright
Artis Hicks -- Will Montgomery

And my money is on this as well:

OT#4 -- Levi Jones

Seriously? You can't see the stark difference in talent and ability on the field and on the sideline?

Seriously?

Posted by: psps23

Thats a joke right? Thats a fuc&ing joke? Please? Shanahan, fine upgrade. Agreed. Mcnabb upgrade agreed.

Outside of that they are all lateral moves. LJ is washed up. he is a malcontent that will complain the minute he isn't starting and gaining 2 ypc. You are banking on a 30 year old rb who has had 2 seasons or so of over 400 touches to be an upgrade over Betts. I mean, yes possible, but I'm not going to go out and say that is an automatic upgrade... sorry.

Willie Parker. Really? He was run out of town in Pitts. He doesn't play special teams, doesn't run up the middle and doesn't break tackles. He is actually WORSE than Rock for this team BECAUSE he does not have a roll. He will not be the starter since he is afraid of contact and the middle of the field...

And one way or another Artis Hicks is a backup, much like Will Montgomery was. He is going to be playing all that much, and if hes a backup on OUR LINE... well we all know thats not a good thing.... really PSP i have just lost all respect for you.

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | April 6, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I will post this again; this is the George Allen effect, like father like son. Who was around to remember those days always the brides maid never the bride. However this can work if we draft two good tackles. The defense is fine the o-line plus a safety make us a threat to get in the playoffs. Our guys are not hopeless just misguided, Zorn was a joke he hurt a lot of talented people. Thank you Mr Snyder now leave the coaching to grown folks. Something I thought I would never say but Vinny did draft some pretty good talent, just no one to lead.

JC stays and backs up McNabb learns the system, thats why they haven't taken the tag off of him. Everyone says he has a lot to learn why not behind McNabb. Young did it behind Montana the kid still has skills just needs a mentor. Just in case DM goes down I would rather have a JC who understands and has the players respect than an unknown.

lostintexasredskin

Posted by: MPWTIAN | April 6, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

McNabb passer rankings by year

2009: 12th
2008: 15th
2007: 9th
2006: 4th (10 games)
2005: 16th (9 games)
2004: 4th
2003: 16th
2002: 7th
2001: 7th
2000: 18th

I think its clear that he isn't doing much damage with his legs anymore. In his Pro Bowl years (2000-2004), he averaged 450 yards running with a yds/carry of 6. In the last 2 years, its 140 yards with yds/carry under 4.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 6, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

When/How would you have addressed the QB position?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | April 6, 2010 2:48 PM

Better question is how do you think Shanahan would have addressed it? Because it's clear he wasn't taking JC into the season as his starter. He might be wrong in this, but I don't think so. He's watched enough JC film and enough other QBs. He was going to draft a qb either (1) Bradford by trading up and spending more picks; (2) Clausen with #4; or (3) McCoy/Tebow with the second pick.

I think Shanahan would have gotten Clausen with the #4 pick and would go O-Line with the second round pick. Now that he's gotten McNabb, he will go O-Line with the #4 pick.

This is good. McNabb is ready. He's an elite QB, and he's better for at least the next two or three years than anyone we could have gotten in the draft.

Posted by: League-Source | April 6, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rickyroge | April 6, 2010 2:45 PM

-Why doesn't Shanahan and Allen get the benefit of the doubt? They have been here 3 months...Cerrato was here for 10 years.


They have been here for three months, but their actions as GMs show that they arent doint anything to build the team just make a run. Rich McKay built the Buccaneers that won the superbowl. Allen signed veteran after veteran until he and Gruden were asked to leave. Shanahan doesnt have a great record as a GM. Forgive the people who arent screaming superbowl as the FO tries to pull an o line out their azz. You see the list that Diesel put up, unless they mortgage the future some more, they will still have o line questions heading into the season.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | April 6, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I would not trade a can of Campbell soup for the worst NFL draft day project ever.

No team is this stupid. Odds are we get nothing for him.

Posted by: Political_Stratgst | April 6, 2010 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Who's going to be the QB after McNabb's career gets ended by whatever DE the Eagles take at #37?

2010 draft:
1st round #4
2nd round #37 - given to the F-ing Eagles - mystifyingly - for 33 year old stop-gap McNabb (at least it's not Tebow)
3rd round #X a 270lb OLB w 4.8 40 time and a torn ACL
5th round # our future!
6th round #X given to the Dolphins
7th round # it could out, never know

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | April 6, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

...why don't we wait and see what the team looks like week 1 before we declare the season and future already lost?

Posted by: zjfr2


And there you have it, 'skeptics'.

Wait and see. Who would've thought it?

Wait and see what happens BEFORE the draft.
Wait and see what happens during the draft.
Wait and see what happens during the undrafted free agency peroid.
Wait and see what happens during training camp.
Wait and see what happens during the pre-season.

Posted by: RedDMV | April 6, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Question for those against the trade for Donovan.

When/How would you have addressed the QB position?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | April 6, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse


Shanny has been beating the drum of creating competition at every position.

I don't understand what the problem with that philosophy was.

The brilliance of alot of Shanny's moves (up until now) was that they were low-risk/high-reward - veteran guys got incentive-laden contracts with a promise of open competition that gave them reason to compete hard but also gave the Skins an opportunity to release them if it didn't work out with minimial future cost.

That's not the case with McNabb. Not only did we spend picks, we just eliminated competition at the QB spot. We are going to overpay him with an extension and hope he stays healthy/productive for the next 3 years while we cross our fingers fixing the team around him - Oline, developing impact receivers, re-tooling the run game.

I think a more reasonable approach would have been to bring in more low-cost vet competition at QB with guys who knew Shanny's system - Patrick Ramsey, David Carr.

Draft a QB and let them duke it out in camp.

Let this year be a year that we fix other facets of the team - develop receivers, get the Oline fixed and the run game re-tooled.

Maybe one of the retreads emerges as a viable starter, maybe the draft pick develops well enough to start - if not we can go back to the drawing board in a year on the QB position with the confidence that the rest of the team is up to compete.

Posted by: p1funk | April 6, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

@Zcecest:

What was Clownble's Won-Loss record vs. McNabb over the time period of Clownble's career?

Gotcha!

Posted by: dc1020008 | April 6, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Bean

under your senerio you would still have a unproven rookie at qb behind an impoved oline.....My argument has always been QB/coach are the two most vital elements in the league.... the rest of the players are just variations of guys , some will contribute and stay on your team 5yrs maybe and become core guys... but there are about 30/40 guys who change every 2/3 yrs and will contine to come and go for as lond as there is an nfl..... we have famously payed an unbelieable price to acquire these guys in the past leading directly to our sorry state of affairs.... what we never did in the past was pay a price to get the one player on the field that realy makes a difference... a franchise QB.....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool1 | April 6, 2010 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Okay, those of us sceptical of this approach (not building through the draft) will agree not to comment until August if those supportive of it will shut up too.

Which means the Post might as well shut down this blog.

Nobody can comment on any moves until every move is done and the roster is set in September.

What a silly requirement.

Posted by: SteveMG | April 6, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I think a more reasonable approach would have been to bring in more low-cost vet competition at QB with guys who knew Shanny's system - Patrick Ramsey, David Carr.

Posted by: p1funk | April 6, 2010 3:06 PM

Definitely low cost -- also low likelihood of succeeding. Shanahan's seen these guys and he knows that he won't trust them. Competition? These guys have lost more competitions than I've lost quarters in parking meters.

Posted by: League-Source | April 6, 2010 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I hate the Eagles more than the Giants or Cowboys. Why? Eighteen playoff appearances in 10 years. They are successful getting to the playoffs almost every year and the Redskins aren't. Come to think of it, they've won more often on a year in year out basis than anyone in the NFC for ten years.

I love how people here try to say their approach doesn't work...sure thing it doesn't. Oh and by the way, making a move like renting their aging QB has nothing to do with why they're successful...

Posted by: Pepper5 | April 6, 2010 3:18 PM | Report abuse

it figures this team & this management is in DC, where Mortgaging the Future is standard modus operandi.

For all the comparisons of Chunky vs. Soup, there's still no building going on here.

We're in a world of hurt for a while here.

Hey - if I'm wrong, it'll just prove how bad Zoron the Moron actually was.

Posted by: DikShuttle | April 6, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Donvan will not finish the season upright.

Book it.

Posted by: Alan4 | April 6, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

I think a more reasonable approach would have been to bring in more low-cost vet competition at QB with guys who knew Shanny's system - Patrick Ramsey, David Carr.

Posted by: p1funk | April 6, 2010 3:06 PM

Why rely on guys who have consistently proven all they know how to do is lose. In this division you have to have the ability to put points on the board. We lost games in the NFC EAST last year that if we had had a more accomplished head coach as well as a QB we could have won. If we get down 14-0 the game is over with JC at QB. With Donovan we have a shot to win. That makes all the difference. Portis used to lay his body out there to pick up blitzes for JC only to see a incompletion or interception. After a while you fel like what's the use? Many times Santana has run wide open only to be overthrown and we have all seen him throw up his hands in disgust. These guys believe in Donovan. They never did believe in JC.

Posted by: anacostia85 | April 6, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Whoever posted the sacks stats makes a good point. Jason Campbell would have been OK if he'd had any protection. McNabb won't be any better if we don't get an offensive line.

Posted by: fmjk | April 6, 2010 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Whoever posted the sacks stats makes a good point. Jason Campbell would have been OK if he'd had any protection. McNabb won't be any better if we don't get an offensive line.

Posted by: fmjk | April 6, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Next year:

Cowgirls 11-5
Skins 9-7 (maybe in, maybe out of playoffs)
Gints 8-8
Eggles 3-13

Posted by: dc1020008 | April 6, 2010 3:31 PM | Report abuse

@BeantownGreg1: Clownble is not 6/10. He's a 2/10.

Posted by: dc1020008 | April 6, 2010 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Snyder always wanted a QB that could run and pass like a young McNabb could and he hoped that Clownble would be that guy. Well, Clownble doesn't have the "it" factor that most successful QB's have and never would have developed into the run and pass QB that the young McNabb was.

Question is: Will the old McNabb be like the young McNabb? Probably not, but this is a definite upgrade over Clownble.

Posted by: dc1020008 | April 6, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

LETS GO NATS! Who cares that we lost to the Phillies. 161-1 will be a pretty decent improvement over last year.

Posted by: garyolney | April 6, 2010 3:53 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry; Jason Campbell is a nice guy and I wish him well, but this is a business and it makes no sense whatsoever simply to release him and to get nothing in return. I think that JR is letting his feelings get in the way of his objectivity by implying that somehow it would be more "honorable" to relase JC. The Redskins have invested a 1st round pick and many years in JC and are entitled to obtain whatever the market will bear. Hopefully they can get a decent draft choice that will help them improve the team which is, after all, what all these moves should be about.

Posted by: nrjlh | April 6, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

So Skins gave up a 1st, 3rd and 4th..and huge signing bonuses.. and now we can't even get a 4th round pick and might just have to release him??? Campbell is going down with Shuler as one of the Skins biggest BUSTS!!!

Posted by: sovine08 | April 6, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Question for those against the trade for Donovan. When/How would you have addressed the QB position?
Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8
____
It's al a question of do you think the Skins can win a championship now or next year. If so McNabb is a smart pickup. But if you think it will take 2 years to build a team that can win a championship.. then getting McNabb who will on the wrong side of 35 in 2 years is probably a mistake. Look the Vikings getting Favre was smart.. if it was the Lions it would have been a mistake.. they were smarter drafting Sanford and build a team around him.. I thought the better plan would be to draft Clausen.. start Rex while we build up the rest of the team and in 2 to 3 years have a championship caliber team for the next 10 years.. but who knows this may work

Posted by: sovine08 | April 6, 2010 5:42 PM | Report abuse

a perspective I haven't seen so far. instead of this being 'mortgage the future' or 'one player away' which would be stupid indeed, what if this is just 'floundering with JC for another year isn't good for JC or the Skins, and losing a lot is just plain destructive to morale, etc.'? we can't draft a QB who can start instantly anyway (that never works) so we get DM, and he mentors JC, or whoever we draft, and in the meantime, we win a few more games and everyone is more positive. let's not overthink this. we do have to play next year, so someone has to be the QB next year. JC learning yet another new system? not good for anyone.

Posted by: JoeT1 | April 6, 2010 5:50 PM | Report abuse

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