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It's Jason Campbell's Team

This is shaping up to be one of those weeks in which we end up talking a ton about the quarterback even though there are a bevy of more pressing issues.

Many of Jason Campbell's teammates are being asked about his leadership skills, whether he has "it" - you know, that magic intangible that determines whether a dude turns out like John Elway or Gary Hogeboom. Even in private chats with players, I haven't heard anyone doubt Campbell's ability to perform or command a huddle or lead a team.

"It's the leadership in practice and leadership in the huddle," Antwaan Randle El said. "He does what you would expect out of your quarterback. Most quarterbacks do what people expect them to do as a quarterback. But some have that extra edge like Jason has, in terms of being able to get out of the pocket and making plays. That extra edge in terms of when things are down keeping everybody upbeat and those things, and just making sure we're going in the right direction.

"And I think that's what he's doing. Again, it's not all on him, but the perception is always going to be that he's the lightning rod, and the quarterback will be attacked more than anybody."

If anybody in that locker room truly believed that Todd Collins gives this team a better chance at winning, I'd report it. But this is seen from within as Campbell's team, with the noise coming from outside.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 2, 2008; 9:15 AM ET
 
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Next: An Unrestricted Look at Campbell

Comments

The Source Meter...is taking over.

Posted by: jmicrodoc | December 2, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I actually think if we come in with a similar game plan to last weeks on D we do better, the passing game of Baltimore is no Detroit but its no New York Giants either. Stop the run and be sure to keep playing cover 1 and cover 2. none of that cover 0 nonsense.

There is no reason that we can't beat the Ravens, and there is no reason they can't beat us. We have played similar schedules to this point and they are only up by 1 game.

Here is the Strength of schedule for both teams so far
Baltimore:
CIN 1-10-1, Cle 4-8, Pit 9-3, Ten 11-1, Ind 8-4, Mia 7-5, Oak 3-9, Cle 4-8, Hou 5-7, NYG 11-1, Phi 6-5-1, Cin 1-10-1
OVERALL
70-71-3

Washington:
Nyg 11-1, No 6-6, Ari 7-5, Dal 8-4, Phi 6-5-1, Stl 2-10, Cle 4-8, Det 0-12, Pit 9-3, Dal 8-4, Sea 2-10, Nyg 11-1,
OVERALL
74-69-1

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Please stop the insanity. Does this paper have an agenda to promote this inept QB's career? When the season is over and the Redskins finish 8-8, I'm sure the writers will be printing stories of how good the team will be next year if management gets keys players to complement JC's skills. As long as JC is QB the Redskins will be mediocre.

Posted by: theBozyn | December 2, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

so Ryan Plackemeier (sp), Derrick Frost, Durant Brooks all think Jason Campbell is a good QB

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

cindy, we have stack overflow at line 793.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who thinks anyone but JC should be QBing this team for the next 10 years is an idiot. If you swapped our O and D line with the Giants O and D line, I guarentee JC would be outperforming Eli.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 2, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

connskins, are you the guy who drove down to FedEx in the rain with your son for his first game (maybe a preseason thing against the Jags)? Or was that a different ConnSkins?

Posted by: dcsween

Yes same person, and I keep driving down there

Posted by: connskins | December 2, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

dc, you have a great memory that was two years ago

Posted by: connskins | December 2, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

The only difference I see between the Ravens and the skins is that the Ravens know who they are offensivly and they play to their strnghts on offense. I think that's one of the reasons Zorn may scale back the O this week. Run the plays and concepts that this team executes well and give them a shot to regain some confidence offensively.

Posted by: TWISI | December 2, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

"Anyone who thinks anyone but JC should be QBing this team for the next 10 years is an idiot. If you swapped our O and D line with the Giants O and D line, I guarentee JC would be outperforming Eli.

Posted by: Rypien11 "

Well maybe I'm an idiot but I don't care to name my starting QB for 2018 in 2008. Excuse me.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

i am an idiot!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

cindy, we need a mop on line 793 a stack is over-flowing.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

When I hear 'stack overflowing', it can only mean one thing: pancakes!

Posted by: daggar | December 2, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

It's amazing the idiocy that comes from people's mouths. Jason Campbell can only do what the rest of his team allows him to do. He doesn't have enough time to find receivers, and when he does, they're not open. Randle El is a nice slot/3rd receiver, but as a #2, not so much. Once these rookies develop into even a decent threat, and the team puts together a more efficient O-Line, you're whining will stop.

Posted by: ywill316 | December 2, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

The only thing "inept" about this post are the people that think Jason Campbell is what's wrong with this offense.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

pancakes or bricks

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

thebozyn, jasono is the same guy who was hyping reed doughty, lying for springs saying he's not the deep throat, hyping kc bramlet, hyping leigh torrence, hyping punter, the, basically hyping every player that gave him a time of day.

he thinks zorny is a good coach cuz he didn't big time him when he suggested that they use certain plays. sorry but i want my team's leader to be sure of himself, confident and somewhat cocky. i want my coach to rip your nuts out for even suggesting that a pencil pusher like jasno could come up with a solution to this offense when he and his staff could not for over 13 weeks. that is a weakness not a strength.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who thinks anyone but JC should be QBing this team for the next 10 years is an idiot. If you swapped our O and D line with the Giants O and D line, I guarentee JC would be outperforming Eli.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 2, 2008 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Ten years is a bit much. But considering that if you look at JC and Eli's numbers for the year and they are identical, with Eli getting a slight lead in most categories and JC having a lead in completion & comp %, plays over 20 yds and 1/2 the ints. that Eli has, I am willing to bet JC would do better than Eli but no way to tell for sure.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

This is a coach's league. It's about who's the most prepared and whose personnel is put in the best position to make plays. If your assertion was right the Cowboys would be working on their 2nd straight title right now.

Posted by: brownwood26


Interesting points Brownwood,

I have to agree that under Gibbs1, the teams the Skins won with weren't always the best at each skill set, and Gibbs was masterful THEN.
Many on this blog point out that todays game is different. I'm not so sure except the NFL favors passing way more than it used to. Blocking and tackling haven't changed,err, except horsecollars.

Do you think the Skins as currently constituted have a realistic chance against the Giants, Steelers, Titans, etc? I don't, especially on the lines.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

From the previous thread peoplearestupid's post. You're partially right, Kelly, Thomas, and Davis all could be very good, and Rhinehart probably will get every opportunity to be a starter next year, and Horton was a home run, so there's a chance this could be a good draft down the road.

That wasn't, isn't, and won't be my issue in January when I'm watching other teams in the playoffs. My issue is the stupid extremes this FO always takes. It was like this offseason they said to themselves well since we've been bashed for so long for signing free agents and ignoring the draft this year we'll ignore free agents and max out on the draft.

What's wrong with "staying medium" and making the draft a priority but augmenting your roster with free agency. Forgetting that I completely disagree with ignoring our front seven with our first 5 picks why make the draft the only option of the offseason?

And then why cut any legit veteran talent from the roster at receiver putting all of the pressure on Kelly and Thomas to contribute right away when as everyone on here is quick to remind me it takes time for rookie receivers to "get it"? And why not sign just one veteran defensive end during the offeason so that a knee jerk Taylor move wouldn't seem so necessary? And why not bring in one decent vet. linebacker for some depth behind the oft injured Marcus and the at the time currently injured Rocky McIntosh, and why not sign one veteran olineman that could play multiple spots?

None of that would have cost a lot of money and before the Taylor trade we had plenty of cap room. I'm done arguing that the positions drafted were a mistake, but it is an absolute lack of a plan or any sort of a contingency plan ever that ticks me off about this front office, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the simple moves I just mentioned would have greatly helped this team, and I'm not talking about a single big name high priced move, just some decent veteran depth to aid your young draft class and give it time.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

THE THREE YEAR PLAN

2008 Draft : Offensive weapons that historically will take a couple years to develop.

2009 Draft : Offensive linemen that will take about a year to gel and come together. This includes a new center and a new OT, then add in Heyer and Rhinehart and that's a new, young line.

2010 Draft : Defensive line emphasis. Draft studs for both DE's and a solid DT. The secondary will be led by Hall, Horton, and Rogers by now.


Pick up a very good linebacker along the way either through free agency or see if one works out as a late round pick. Also needed would be a better punt returner and a possible replacement for Portis or at least a better change-of-pace backup RB.

WE'RE GOING TO THE SUPERBOWL IN 2010 PEOPLE

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

PS all, the UFL is under way and starting in Fall of 2009. right now they are asking fans to come up with team names for the 8 possible teams they want to have. The cities are, SF, LA, LV, Mexico City, Salt Lake City, Orlando, Hartford and NYC.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

want my team's leader to be sure of himself, confident and somewhat cocky. i want my coach to rip your nuts out

Hmmm, is Jesse Jackson on this blog today disguised as Dealer?

JK!
I think Zorn is confident and has called out publicly JC and the rookie WR's to name a few. Many on this blog didn't think it was the right thing to do btw.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

"None of that would have cost a lot of money and before the Taylor trade we had plenty of cap room. I'm done arguing that the positions drafted were a mistake, but it is an absolute lack of a plan or any sort of a contingency plan ever that ticks me off about this front office, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the simple moves I just mentioned would have greatly helped this team, and I'm not talking about a single big name high priced move, just some decent veteran depth to aid your young draft class and give it time.

Posted by: zjfr2 "

my common sense might confuse you and think I'm a "Danny backer", but dude, you act like you know all the facts.

Maybe they DID try to do some of these things? Not every move can be fixed every year. If that were the case, every team would be Superbowl contenders.

It's easy to complain, but being an NFL GM ain't Madden. It's not nearly as simple as you think it is.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

lol...yeah...very jessie jacksonesque there...

i don't care about winning, i think that's asking too much at this point from this team against a good team, on sunday night. just look respectable.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

"It's easy to complain, but being an NFL GM ain't Madden. It's not nearly as simple as you think it is."

Posted by: TheTruth11

Not to be nitpicky, but this is coming from the guy that just said,

"2009 Draft : Offensive linemen that will take about a year to gel and come together. This includes a new center and a new OT, then add in Heyer and Rhinehart and that's a new, young line.

2010 Draft : Defensive line emphasis. Draft studs for both DE's and a solid DT."

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Do you think the Skins as currently constituted have a realistic chance against the Giants, Steelers, Titans, etc? I don't, especially on the lines.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 9:45 AM

Nope. And it's been proven against everyone you listed except Tennessee. But this team is likely to finish with a better record than Gibbs 1.0's first season here and I think Zorn deserves some time. The Book of Zorn hasn't even finished the first chapter yet! If we're still having this discussion in December 2010 then we need a change. Vinny, JZ and JC still have a lot to prove until then.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 2, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Just looking at some stats:

Was not aware that Thrash only has 8 catches as are starting third WR that is pathetic, Thomas has more catches then that and Thrash plays twice as many minutes as him. Thrash should not see the field again this year at WR, if you want to go 5 wide use the 4 receivers and Cooley.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 2, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Maybe they DID try to do some of these things? Not every move can be fixed every year. If that were the case, every team would be Superbowl contenders.

It's easy to complain, but being an NFL GM ain't Madden. It's not nearly as simple as you think it is.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

So Dan Snyder, who has shown he can and will sign anybody he wants to, looked around and tried to find second tier veteran depth and wasn't able to find anybody to sign?

Come on man that's lame.

The only reported visitors the whole of season were Demps and DJ Hacket. Not a single offensive or defensive lineman even visited or a single linebacker. Don't kid yourself, they "try" to sign anybody.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

my common sense might confuse you and think I'm a "Danny backer", but dude, you act like you know all the facts.

Maybe they DID try to do some of these things? Not every move can be fixed every year. If that were the case, every team would be Superbowl contenders.

It's easy to complain, but being an NFL GM ain't Madden. It's not nearly as simple as you think it is.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 9:53 AM |


Agreed. But you have to admit that a lot of other teams seem to have better depth, foresight, and creativity than our FO seems to have.

ZJFR2 - while Truth is correct to some extent, I echo your sentiment completely.

Posted by: abtassler | December 2, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

*last post on the UFL,*

Funniest thing I have seen, a backup LB for the St. Louis Rams posted on the UFL's blog that he would rather go play for a minor league team in his home town. If its really him what a slap in the face to the rams.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

SF, LA, LV, Mexico City, Salt Lake City, Orlando, Hartford and NYC.

how about the SF 69ers (duh), the LA we'll be gone in 2 yearsers, Las Vegas Shavers, Mexico City Rons (Michael Vick will QB), Salt Lake City Gangsta Rappers (Makes as much sense as the Utah Jazz), Orlando Tourists, Hartford Whalers and the New York American Football Red Bulls.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 2, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

brownwood,

you and I agree then. I think Zorn definitely deserves time enough to get the players HE'D like to run HIS offense. this of course assumes VC and DS allow it.

Better players often make coaches look smarter than their peers. I think Matt Cassell on our team doesn't look so good, but with Randy Moss, he gets away with throwing it up there.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I would go with The SF, Devils, the LA Xtream the New York Hitmen, Los Vegas Outlaws and Orlando Rage... oh wait those were all XFL teams.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

WE'RE GOING TO THE SUPERBOWL IN 2010 PEOPLE

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 9:48 AM

This is the same guy who proclaimed the "University" of Georgia as National Champs last August. How'd that work out, Truth?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 2, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Matt Castle has more sacks than any QB in the NFL, and that line is better than ours. In this linup he would set a record for sacked QB.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse

David Carr of Houston was sacked 76 times in 2002.

He is followed by Randall Cunningham with 72 in 1986.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse
It doesn't matter how much sense you make, some people are just hard-headed. Excellent point, you can't say three WR's were drafted for the future not now and then those same WR's are being lined up on third downs and expected to make plays when the ball comes there way. The two most obvious bone-headed decisions were not signing a veteran (not Thrash) to help in the passing game and not getting any kind of help along the lines. This has been beaten to death, but I'm sorry, this is not that complicated. It only becomes complicated when you're a moron (see Matt Millen & Cerrato)

Posted by: ga8085 | December 2, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

JK!
I think Zorn is confident and has called out publicly JC and the rookie WR's to name a few. Many on this blog didn't think it was the right thing to do btw.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 9:52 AM

Others of us think he ought to take a look in the mirror. Not a lot to like about the offense or the play-calling the last few weeks and that's his responsibility.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 2, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Better players often make coaches look smarter than their peers. I think Matt Cassell on our team doesn't look so good, but with Randy Moss, he gets away with throwing it up there.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 10:13 AM

Then we are in agreement. To kind of further the point, I doubt Belichick is the genius people think he is if he didn't have Tom Brady. I remember how bad his Browns teams were in the early 90s and still can't believe he's got as many rings as Gibbs...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 2, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

UGH, Truth please make no predictions about Skins, you are never right!

I am not ready to say patriots line is really better than ours, remember the superbowl?

That said, I don't want Matt Cassell either Beantown is right Pats dont let him walk with out pillaging whatever team gets Cassell.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"Not a lot to like about the offense or the play-calling the last few weeks and that's his responsibility"

Couldn't agree more te. Seems like they've trotted out the same basic game plan, against Pitt, then against Dallas, then against NY, with the same lack of success.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

brown, maybe not, but he doesn't have Tom Brady this year and they are still likely in the playoffs. He won superbowls with Troy Brown at corner and Cory Dillon is the only legit running back he has ever had there, and until last year they didn't have any good receivers. Don't kid yourself, I hate him but the hoody is a heck of a coach.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

I agree TE, Zorn needs to look at what the team does consistantly wrong. My 2 issues: One we harped at the begining. JC is a shotgun QB, he is tall and slow dropping and can see the field better when he is not having to drop back, Tom Brady is the same way, it does not make one a bad QB.

second, is that we need to stop running a dump-off rout short of the 1st down marker on the 3rd down situations, every team in the league knows we are gonna have 1 guy 3 yards shy of the marker on a crossing or comeback rout in a 3rd down pass play.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Given the lack of protection, it's pretty silly to call for Campbell's head at this point.

I think he can be the answer, but he has to be playing on a level field with the other strong QB's in the league before I'll judge him as the man or lacking.

On another note, I can't believe I'm now reading people complaining the Redskins didn't sign enough people in the offseason. I thought we were getting away from that? Isn't that what everyone wanted?

The grass is always greener, I suppose....

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Seems like they've trotted out the same basic game plan, against Pitt, then against Dallas, then against NY, with the same lack of success.


Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 10:25 AM

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- Einstein

It shouldn't take an Einstein to draw up a game plan.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 2, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

JC can't run out and catch the passes!! How many were dropped in crucial situations in just the Cowpies and Jints games alone?

Campbell is making the throws, but the WRs need to help him out some!!!

Posted by: SkinsfaninNebraska | December 2, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Well if it is Jason's team, we should all get ready to go no where. To borrow a phrase, Jason is that girl at the bar who shows some skin, but it aint going no where. I will ride it out as I am a fan, but remember you heard it here first

Posted by: SkinzNWiz | December 2, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Michael, Huff & Jurgenson all said on the radio broadcast that Campbell looked dejected & like a "beaten" man as they were trying to score quickly at the end.

Posted by: gregskins | December 2, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

That said, I don't want Matt Cassell either Beantown is right Pats dont let him walk with out pillaging whatever team gets Cassell.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

I could care less if its Cassell, or Rosenfels, or Collins (FA this year) or whoever but IF this offense struggles for the next four weeks, and especially if it doesn't look good against Cincy and San Fran then I think we definitely need to get somebody in to push JC.

Not to cut JC and hand somebody the job, but to cut Collins and give JC legit competition, maybe that's Colt, I don't know, but from the way Zorn talked about him in the preseason sounds like Colt is a long term project, I think JC needs to be pushed next year if he can't play well down the stretch in a playoff push this year.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

brown, maybe not, but he doesn't have Tom Brady this year and they are still likely in the playoffs. He won superbowls with Troy Brown at corner and Cory Dillon is the only legit running back he has ever had there, and until last year they didn't have any good receivers. Don't kid yourself, I hate him but the hoody is a heck of a coach.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 10:26 AM

Understood...but I still don't think he's as good as advertised. He's good...a surefire HoFamer with the 3 titles, but I just think he falls somewhere between the horrible he was in Cleveland and the invincible he's been in New England.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 2, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

zj, you painted with some very broad strokes in your assessment of Troy Brown/Corey Dillon. Brown filled in as a 3rd corner on occasion, its not like he was starting at cb. Dillon ran for over 10,000 yards I believe in his career, so its not like he's a slouch.

When Tom Brady is your QB, you don't have to have great receivers. Look at what David Patten, David Givens, and Deion Branch have done since they left.


Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

I will ride it out as I am a fan, but remember you heard it here first

Posted by: SkinzNWiz | December 2, 2008 10:30 AM

I think you're two years too late to claim "first." Maybe "most recently" but even that won't last long.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 2, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Better players often make coaches look smarter than their peers. I think Matt Cassell on our team doesn't look so good, but with Randy Moss, he gets away with throwing it up there.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 10:13 AM

Then we are in agreement. To kind of further the point, I doubt Belichick is the genius people think he is if he didn't have Tom Brady. I remember how bad his Browns teams were in the early 90s and still can't believe he's got as many rings as Gibbs...

Posted by: brownwood26


By this token, I think Zorn is very lucky right now to have Campbell as his QB. With as many close wins as this team has this season, even a slightly more turnover prone QB could have handed this team 2-3 more losses. And the only benefit of the doubt Zorn has right now is the fact that we actually have 7 wins. With the way this offense is progressing (negatively), he would be skating on thin ice with Snyder without that record.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Others of us think he ought to take a look in the mirror. Not a lot to like about the offense or the play-calling the last few weeks and that's his responsibility.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

It's not very creative is it? I have a different take on it thank perhaps you do. If Zorn says they need to reduce or reign in the offense, to me that indicates the players aren't getting it. Maybe Zorn IS calling plays that THESE players get.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

I'm thinking the game plan doesn't matter so much.

The Redskins are getting physically beaten on the line, man for man.

How do you game plan around that?

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse

On another note, I can't believe I'm now reading people complaining the Redskins didn't sign enough people in the offseason. I thought we were getting away from that? Isn't that what everyone wanted?

The grass is always greener, I suppose....

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

shaun, you're just like Vinny, you don't get it, nobody ever said we shouldn't sign anybody, the pundits and the reasonable fans just said you don't BUILD a team through free agency while ignoring the draft, this year they maxed out on the draft and ignored free agency, we didn't need the big name signings but some second tier veteran depth would have helped this team a lot...somewhere in between that "medium" range would be great, its not a mutually exclusive question on whether to sign some free agents or have a decent draft class.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

While it is Campbell's team at the moment, I believe this will be less so as the offense continues to struggle. Zorn is clearly not happy with the recent regression in JC's play. The skins should; built the lines, RB depth, etc. through the draft, bring in a veteran QB, and then have an open competition at QB between JC & Colt, and the veteran for 2009. The skins will get younger next year, and hopefully better.

Posted by: pastorbobs | December 2, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

bean, I said Dillon was the only legit back he's ever had...I know he's not a slouch, that was my point Dillon is the only non-slouch he's ever had.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

shaun, are you kidding me?

You have a team like the Giants whose defense charges up the field to get to the qb, and not one draw play was called. They threw 1 rb screen to Portis, and picked up 15 yards, but then never went back to that. Not to mention that with as sack happy a team that the Giants are, wouldn't it make sense to have JC in the shotgun, instead of under center?

Just seems like NOTHING has changed.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

I got this quote off of ESPN:

"For starters, we didn't complete two critical long balls to our receivers," said Zorn. "Secondly, we weren't able to effectively adjust to the game's speed. Lastly, I didn't feel we understood how critical this game was. If we did understand the importance of a win today, we definitely didn't perform like we did."

Is this an accurate quote? Anybody see this?

Posted by: captjim | December 2, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"I can't believe I'm now reading people complaining the Redskins didn't sign enough people in the offseason. I thought we were getting away from that? Isn't that what everyone wanted?

The grass is always greener, I suppose....

Posted by: shaunsherman12"


No, we wanted to get away from signing no-talent, unproven bums like Brandon Lloyd to $30 million contracts, or trading multiple draft picks for no-talent, unproven bums like TJ Duckett. Signing guys like London Fletcher, Cornelius Griffin, Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, and Randy Thomas are more than welcome. Trading for guys like Clinton Portis and Santana Moss is more than welcome as well.

It's never all-draft or all-FA. All we want is proper evaluation of talent.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

pastor sounds great to me except we only have 4 draft picks this year, tough to address multiple positions with only four picks......

When you have 10 picks though you can address glaring depth needs at the core of your team with multiple positions.....

or you can have a lot of receivers, corners, and safeties.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

I dont see an open competition between JC a new QB and Colt. Just dont see it, firstly because it would be a dumb thing to do unless we don't sign JC this offseason, and secondly because the odds of finding someone = or better this off season is near impossible. Even with the problems he has JC is a top 15 QB right now.

Unless some A+ QB with WC experience is up for grabs we will probably just sign a vet backup

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

The reason they did not go back to the screen was CP got his head near torn off that play, on a mildly dirty (but reasonably unfineable) hit.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Let's face it:

As long as SNYDER is the owner, this team will NEVER make it to the NFC Championship game.

Maybe a playoff win every 10 years, but that's all we'll be getting, folks.

When the first step in the process is poison (in our case, the "owner's input"), the rest of the process is meaningless.

Posted by: jgarrisn | December 2, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

By this token, I think Zorn is very lucky right now to have Campbell as his QB. With as many close wins as this team has this season, even a slightly more turnover prone QB could have handed this team 2-3 more losses. And the only benefit of the doubt Zorn has right now is the fact that we actually have 7 wins. With the way this offense is progressing (negatively), he would be skating on thin ice with Snyder without that record.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 10:33 AM |

Good point!
Campbell has not been the problem. He has been steady, the one thing that Zorn can count on this season. Moss, Cooley, Campbell, Portis and Sellars have given steady performances week after week. The rest on offense seem imminently replaceable.

Posted by: driley | December 2, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

One of the reasons Gibbs 1 was so successful was that the recognized his talent level and tailored his attack to the existing personnel and WON GAMES. If anyone can watch the Skins and say that Zorn is making any adjustments to provide better opportunities to score and win, you are kidding yourself.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 2, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Despite the fact that this team has an efficient QB, an absolute stud RB, an explosive WR, and a stud TE all playing at a reasonably high level, this is one of the most inept offenses I've ever seen through the last 4 weeks.

This is just my opinion, but based on what I've seen, if a choice has to be made between Campbell and Zorn, then Zorn is the one that goes.

*final note - I don't actually think it will come down to that. I think Zorn rights the ship and the offense begins to take off. However, in the unlikely scenario that his offense continues to regress, he's the one that gets the shaft, not Campbell.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is not the problem. There is a reason that talent evaluators outside of DC have stated that the Redskins should build around him.
The problem offensively is twofold. First and foremost is the wide receiver position. Santana is outstanding, Randle-El is only useful as a No.3, Thrash needs to retire or limit his play to the teams, and the rookies aren't ready yet (which is not unuusal, WR's typically take 2-3 years to develop). Secondly, the offensive line is mediocre with regards to pass protection.
Just in case nobody has noticed, even when JC has ample time to throw the WR's are never open. You can see his head turning to make his reads but discovering nothing is available. Until the rookies develop or another quality WR is brought in, the struggles offensively will continue.

Posted by: croftonpost | December 2, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

By the way, why has Dallas suddenly been annointed Superbowl Champs?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 2, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Unless some A+ QB with WC experience is up for grabs we will probably just sign a vet backup

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

McNabb anyone?

real list of potential veteran free agent QB's that could help anyone:

Kurt Warner
Jeff Garcia
Matt Cassell
Kerry Collins
Kyle Orton

Gotta figure Orton resigns with the Bears. But Gruden has never loved Garcia, Leinhart is behind Warner, and Young is behind Collins. That leaves Cassell who everyone on here thinks the Patriots will franchise Cassell and pay him top 5 money to be a back up. But I think McNabb is on the market after this year too.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

alex, you're missing my point. I wasn't talking about Portis catching the pass, I was talking about the play itself. Throw the RB screen to Betts, get the Giants DE's charging up the field, then having to change direction, get them thinking that they shouldn't just pin their ears back.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 2, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

wow! if skins win sunday night they can easily go 11-5. wow! where's gibbs when you need him!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

You can see his head turning to make his reads but discovering nothing is available. Until the rookies develop or another quality WR is brought in, the struggles offensively will continue
___________________________________________

Or he is afraid to let the ball fly. If he would just throw it away or take off running more when nothing is there it may cause defenses to respect that aspect of his game instead of knowing they are able to tee off on him. I think he is checking down too early and missing the few opportunities he has in his 1.6 seconds the line allows him.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 2, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Dosen't Kerry Collins remind you of Ricky Bobby's dad?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 2, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

TRUTH!!!!!

Jason Campbell has 32 TD's in 32 games. In 10 of those games he as thrown 0 TD's. That is more than 25% of the time.

It's not that he is inconsistent, it is that his release is very slow and defenders consistently get a jump on our passing plays because of it!!! Have we even run a successful slant this whole season? Would it hurt to pumpfake every once in a while??

I'm sorry, I really liked Jason, but he will never ever ever ever be a ProBowl Qb and any offense with him at the helm will never ever ever ever put up enough points to scare anybody. He is allergic to throwing TD's and the stats point to it.

I'm not saying Colt is the answer, but the man throws TD's. It doesn't matter how or why, Colt just throws TD's. Put him in! We are wasting Clinton Portis' prime years!!!!!

Lemme blow your mind:

Jason Campbell in 13 preseason games/2 touchdown passes

Colt Brennan in 5 preseason games/3 touchdown passes

Posted by: Vicc | December 2, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

You're just like Vinny, you work for Dan...I keep seeing this kind of stuff....

Why is that when people are going off the deep end, they always accuse those that disagree with their points of being some kind of conspirators?

It isn't a mutually exclusive situation, yes. Still, you can't have it all IN ONE YEAR, and that's what everyone seems to want.

This team has been getting older for some time now. They just now SEEM to have changed their philosophy to go young and build through the draft. They had many holes on this team going in, and most people who know football better than you or I by a longshot had them dead in the cellar of the NFC East this year.

As it turns out they are 7-5, Which easily surpasses almost all professional expectations, and most fan ones. So what is all the panicking about?

They aren't very good yet. They made mistakes over the past several years in not developing linemen, and can't recover from those mistakes in a year. They can't sign all these "mid-level" guys that will suddenly make things better and give tremendous depth, because those guys are few and far between, and are almost always overpaid. There are 31 other teams looking for those guys, and bidding for their services.
Look, Dockery went for 50 Million! Did you think he was that great of a lineman?

The lesson they learned is you have to pay way too much for middling talent through free agency most of the time. You get some Fletchers, but you get more duds than not - and that goes for all teams. They've turned to the draft, but they weren't going to come up with a draft that was going to turn this team into a powerhouse overnight...

People turn to the Giant's draft last year, but that's one in a million, and I'd bet my house that if you asked the Gint's GM, he'd tell you so.

Instead of burning them at the stake, why don't we practice what we preach at the owner - patience - and see if the guys we've drafted, and the guys we will draft, will be answers.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Zorn is a rookie head coach making rookie coach mistakes. At the end of the year I hope someone sits down with him, be it Gibbs some of the vet guys in the FO or whoever and they seriously evaluate where he was strong and weak as a coach. I almost would give him a game by game report card for HC moves. how was the play calling, adjusting to the other team, adjusting to his own players for the game, was he motivating his players, and whatever else a football mind can think a HC would do? He has had a few games where he can get an A for all that stuff and some games a F.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Dealer - I tend to agree with you on this one.

But I'm willing to ride it out through next season before I make a big change of changing QB and HC.

Zorn has to realize HE needs to adapt and not the other way. Gibbs got it after one half of a season. Zorn may need a whole season..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

I will say this though, people who keep point to "the wide receiver position as the problem" are missing how football is played.

Did anybody see the group of receivers that just torched our secondary, that would be D. Hixon, Steve not from Carolina Smith, Amani I'm older than dirt Toomer, and Kevin aint the Boss. It all comes down to Oline. If we can protect a QB and give them the kind of time that other teams QB's get against us, then our receiving core would look just fine and our offense would be fine.

This franchise has over evaluated this line for years and it just keeps getting older and older every year. I watch a Detroit game where CP has to fight for every yard he gets and has contact in the backfield repeatedly, then I watch Tennessee rush for 300 yds and Johnson and White break off 10 yard + runs where they aren't touched until they are in the secondary. CP never gets that.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

"I think he is checking down too early and missing the few opportunities he has in his 1.6 seconds the line allows him.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden"

How many times have you seen his WRs make a play for him? And I mean actually make a play, like go up over the defender and make a catch -- not simply beat the defense with separation.

Campbell has given his WRs an opportunity to make plays this season. He throws to them in tight coverage, he puts the ball in the air hoping they can make a play, and not once have the WRs responded. Not even Moss (all his big plays come uncontested because he's great at getting separation). Most of the time, the balls are dropped, and just last week, Randle El was beat to the ball by his DB. He couldn't even make a play to break up the pass.

Again, he'd let it fly if he had trust that his WRs could make a play for him. So far, they haven't given him a reason to do it.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

"WR's typically take 2-3 years to develop"

Really?
You can say that for linemen on the Nebreska football team. You can say that for new quarterbacks (although Flacco and Ryan are proving that to be false, too).
You can say that for safeties or linebackers who generally take a year to get fully up to speed. I don't buy that line for receivers. If you are a playmaker kind of receiver you will show what you have the first year. That kind of talent shows up in games, in a very public position. The Taylor Jacobs type show talent practice but not on the field. With Thrash and ARE as the number 2 and 3 starters this team was aching for someone to come in and to show they could play either position. What better position could a rookie receiver be in? Not to mention that everyone was learning the playbook at the same time so a veteran did not have years of experience in the same system. No, this position was wide open for someone to seize it by the throat.

Posted by: driley | December 2, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

They drafted and signed 10 draft picks, plus had enough cap room that after the season had started they could trade and eat an 8.5 million dollar cap hit.

Please don't tell me you can't sign three middle of the road free agents and have a decent draft class in the same offseason, that's just dumb.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"This is the same guy who proclaimed the "University" of Georgia as National Champs last August. How'd that work out, Truth?

Posted by: talent_evaluator "

lol no I didn't

dude, really stop putting words in my mouth

any rational fan would've doubted UGA would be undefeated. Was I excited about our season? Just as excited as I was about the Redskins season. Did I think we would blow through the SEC? No.

Don't you remember EVERYONE saying "Georgia is number 1, BUT their schedule is too tough"?


Again, congratulations on making the recent history of Georgia\Georgia Tech only 7-1 in UGA's favor, but stop putting words in my mouth. It's lame.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Re the list of QBs available:

McNabb anyone? no way, he is the worst QB in the east

real list of potential veteran free agent QB's that could help anyone:

Kurt Warner AZ will re-sign him for 2-3 seasons
Jeff Garcia will probably not be resigned off the bat, but will be a bidding war qb
Matt Cassell not going to be cheap and is a 1 year wonder, see Shuab and Anderson
Kerry Collins will re-sign or retire and not a WC style QB
Kyle Orton will return to Chi and get a big contract


Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Just a wild idea to toss about........

I like JC fine and have suggested the problems are more with the O-line than him. I think a drastic overhaul of the lines is needed though to compete, especially in the NFC east.
What if a the Skins tried to trade him, for say a proven O-lineman, and a couple of picks, 2nd and 3rd say? Pick up Jeff Garcia, or Mcnabb, or another QB.
What do you think the interest would be in JC and what players/picks could the skins get?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

whether Pierce, the defensive signal-caller, will miss any because of his involvement with disposing of Burress' gun Saturday morning.

get him! get heeeeem!!!! i hate ap!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

If Zorn says they need to reduce or reign in the offense, to me that indicates the players aren't getting it. Maybe Zorn IS calling plays that THESE players get.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 10:35 AM

Right, it all boils down to the players' fault. At least, that's how Zorn spins it. If, after five months the players still don't get the offense, then I'm taking a look at the coaching. What have the coaches been doing? After all, several of them -- especially Zorn -- are rookies, just like the rookies they're trying to blame for their own shortcomings.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 2, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Beantown:

You aren't going to win if you get controlled at the line of scrimmage. There are only so many screens you could throw before they move up for that and stop it cold.

I'd like to have seen more Shotgun, too. Still, the downside to shotgun is then the defenders KNOW you are throwing, and come at the QB that much harder.

They aren't going to score points if they can't run, and they can't protect the passer. They couldn't do either. No game plan is going to hide that.

To see it your way, I guess the biggest thing I wish they would change would be their timing. Why are all Redskin offenses so slow to the ball before the snap? The clock always seems to be at 1 when we snap it. Do they think defenders don't see that? I think it is one of the reasons that we see DE's and such get such great jumps off the line at the snap....

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

With the list of quality olineman about to hit free agency we don't need to trade JC. We just need to finally decide that these guys aren't as good as we think they are and decide to sign some younger (better) players.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas has 11 receptions for 77 yards, 5 first downs. This is not including his 1 receiving TD called back on a penalty and his rushing TD that counted last Sunday.

Santana Moss in his first year had 2 catches for 40 yards and 2 first downs.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

What's amusing here to me is that so many people are focused on 2008 and not focused on what Zorn is trying to achieve long-term.

NO ONE believes the Redskins are a Super Bowl team in 2008, no one believed that going into the season.

What Zorn is trying to do is establish Campbell and through the pain of experience have him learn on the field what has been taught in the classroom and on film.

Yes, it might be easier to just have Campbell hand off to Portis and throw deep off play action - and it might net another win in 2008 over 16 games, but it is not giong to do much to develop Campbell into being more than a game manager.

Eli Manning didn't see the field his first 2-3 years in the NFL, and his development since 2004 has to be caveated in that he started a lot sooner in his career than Campbell did.

Joe Gibbs didn't consider Campbell's development to be any priority in 2005 or 2006 before Brunell got hurt.

That's 1.5 years wasted. In Gibbs' system the backup gets no time. It was all about Brunell and in the end the 35 year old Brunell was too far past his prime to make it happen in Washington.

Zorn is trying to settle the most difficult position to play in the NFL in a year when the front office drafted two wide receivers who have failed to learn the playbook and come prepared to perform.

Only now is Kelly getting on the field and for the first time all season Thomas actually made a play in a game on the reverse for a TD.

If these two players were ready to play in September, Campbell's entire trajectory would be different.

Posted by: leopard09 | December 2, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

more weird thing was the lack of adjustments from the defensive side on sunday. why did blache keep stacking the line after getting burned once, twice, three times? what was that about?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

It is amazing that the general consensus at this juncture is once again..."It is JC's fault....no no...it is Zorn's play-calling....no no...it is Cerrato... no no...it is the lack of pass rush." you are the same people who were all giddy when you beat Dallas earlier in the season, squeaked by Philadelphia, blew off the loss to St Louis like it was a fluke...talking all tha crap about how the Skin's are the new "Beast of the East". (sorry...that was the OWNER...DAN SNYDER..claiming that you were the new beasts of the east). Simply put, the team is built wrong, and that is because the person who writes the checks gets more excited about signing high profile, "marketable" players at "marketable" positions. You all following me? How many jerseys do you see in the stands with Randy Thomas's name or Kedric Gholston's name or Demetric Evans' name? Hardly ANY! You think DANNY doesn't know this? Why do you really think he is always having stupid press conferences for high profile, skill position players? Because he can sell it, that is why, and that is why they look to build the team outside in instead of inside out. PERIOD. Until he realizes he doesn't know what the hell he is doing, it is a moot point...they will continue to tease, but at the end of the day, they will suck. End of story.

Posted by: po403 | December 2, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

"shaun, are you kidding me?

You have a team like the Giants whose defense charges up the field to get to the qb, and not one draw play was called. They threw 1 rb screen to Portis, and picked up 15 yards, but then never went back to that. Not to mention that with as sack happy a team that the Giants are, wouldn't it make sense to have JC in the shotgun, instead of under center?

Just seems like NOTHING has changed.

Posted by: BeantownGreg"

I seem to remember a RB screen to Betts after Portis went out.

I also remember a couple screens to Cooley.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Please don't tell me you think you can fill all the needs this team had in one offseason. That's dumb.

Please don't tell me you've got this class figured out as a bust because they aren't making the team a SuperBowl contender their first year. THAT'S just dumb.

They used a good bit of their money on Taylor after the Daniels injury..which JLC LAUDED, along with most folks here...the same folks crapping on that move now....that is just DUMB because it's Monday Morning QB'ing.

As fans we have high hopes for our team. As it turns out, they are better than the pro's thought, but haven't met our expectations. They have a fair amount of weak spots, and aren't contenders yet, and they can't recover in one year from the misktakes they made of the past several.

The only thing hard about that is that we don't want to accept it.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"Eli Manning didn't see the field his first 2-3 years in the NFL, "


HUH? He replaced Kurt Warner after like 8 games in his rookie season....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 2, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Jason, I'm not sure why we keep having to do this. I'm not in the DC Area right now but are people really clamoring for Collins to get a shot? If not, why is this being discussed so much? Pass protection is keeping him from taking the big shots downfield and the running game is hurting because how bad Portis is beat up. I'd hope my fellow fans are able to put those things together? At least we haven't heard the Cult of Colt kids yet... or have we?

Posted by: trolly_time | December 2, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Did you all hear how dumb-founded and stupid Cerrato sounded in his answers on his show yesterday? DOes that sound like a man who should be making decisions for a billion dollar organization? Please....

Posted by: po403 | December 2, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I'm not saying Colt is the answer, but the man throws TD's. It doesn't matter how or why, Colt just throws TD's. Put him in! We are wasting Clinton Portis' prime years!!!!!

Lemme blow your mind:


Jason Campbell in 13 preseason games/2 touchdown passes

Colt Brennan in 5 preseason games/3 touchdown passes


Posted by: Vicc | December 2, 2008 10:58 AM

This is so dumb on so many levels I couldn't possibly count all the ways. By that logic we should get J.T. O'Sullivan because he's an August MVP...maybe trade Portis for Marcus Mason and get Jimmy Farris and Billy McMullen at WR! Now that's a winning formula--for an undefeated preseason!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 2, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

did anyone see the Jets game vs, Titans? during the game it was shown that Farve was getting rid of the ball in like 1.2, 1.3 seconds. JC isn't going to do that, but neither are most QB's.
I still wonder what the market value of JC would be if he were shopped around the league.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 2, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Campbell is not the problem. It is the fundamental diminishment of skills up front, the fact that defensive coordinators are very smart and have a book on how to take away Portis first, then Santana, then Cooley, and have begun to blitz the crap out of Jason on 3rd down when the offense becomes 1-dimensional. NO QB can withstand th pressure he has been under...NONE. It is a personnel issue up front, then it works its way back to the QB...GEEZ...wake up people. You want to fix it?....Get the owner to stay out of the way, get someone in there that respects the process and discipline it takes to build a sound 53 man roster, and go from there...

Posted by: po403 | December 2, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

"This is so dumb on so many levels I couldn't possibly count all the ways. By that logic we should get J.T. O'Sullivan because he's an August MVP...maybe trade Portis for Marcus Mason and get Jimmy Farris and Billy McMullen at WR! Now that's a winning formula--for an undefeated preseason!

Posted by: brownwood26"

I once read an interview with a GM on SI or ESPN, he said the dumbest thing he hears fans say is "Our team should pick up so-and-so! He's good and he just got cut by so-and-so."

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

I'm responding to zjfr2's comment from a previous thread:

"but to your question:

McNabb
Brees
Brady
Pennington (playoffs rookie year)
Cutler
Peyton
Roethlisberger

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 1, 2008 8:22 PM "

I didn't ask which QB over the last 10 years developed into an impact player after their first year. I asked who made an *immediate* impact at QB during their first year.

McNabb was mediocre at best during his first year, and the Eagles' record reflected his mediocrity. Brees was benched during his rookie year for Doug Flutie. Cutler was awful his first year; when the Broncos benched Plummer for Cutler, it probably cost them the season because they were in position to make the playoffs before they started Cutler that year. BBManning was also awful as a rookie, and he'd probably be the first to admit it.

Brady got the call during his second year, not his rookie year.

So over the past 10 years, you have Chad Pennington and Ben Rothelisberger as the only QBs on your list who made an immediate impact for their teams. More importantly, they (and all the others you mentioned) had good-to-great defenses and stud offensive and defensive lines. That's not a coincidence.

Posted by: jcabana | December 2, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Let's be honest about Jason Campbell. He's had 4 years for the light to turn on. It's still off. And it's staying off.

Campbell has played in 32 games (31 as starter) and his record is 14-18. That's not good. Campbell's record vs. teams with winning records is 7-12. That's not good either.

Campbell is what he is (and what he always will be): an average QB. There's a good reason why every other team passed over him in the first round. Here's a prototypical 6'5" 244-pound strong-armed QB who completed 70% of his passes for an undefeated college team and no one wants him in the first round? That's a headscratcher, right?

No, not really. His strengths (size, arm strength) don't compensate for his weaknesses (lack of field vision, timid leadership, poor decision-making). Some people say he's also dumb (remember that 14 Wonderlic score), but dumb QBs can be successful.

Now, Jason Campbell can be a successful NFL QB. But he needs a great team around him to do it. Unlike really good NFL QBs, he doesn't make the guys around him better. The Skins have a history of winning Superbowls without great QBs, but you need a dominant OL to do it. Newsflash: the Skins don't have a dominant OL.

The Skins don't need to get rid of him, but I wouldn't sign him to a big-money contract that locks the Skins into him for years. He's replaceable and the Skins should treat him as such.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 2, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

"did anyone see the Jets game vs, Titans? during the game it was shown that Farve was getting rid of the ball in like 1.2, 1.3 seconds. JC isn't going to do that, but neither are most QB's.
I still wonder what the market value of JC would be if he were shopped around the league.

Posted by: lsskinsfan "

my completely uneducated guess would be like a second round

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone have a bigger mancrush on JC than the Washington Post? It's hilarious. Last year, when Todd Collins was lighting it up, there were several articles going out of their to say it's Campbell's team even when no one was asking if it was or not. Heck, I like Campbell too, but JLC seems more concerned with Campbell's career than how well the Redskins are doing at times. I've never seen anything like it.

This week was the first one with talk of a qb controversy -- or at least a possible qb problem. Once that stuff gets in the air, the only way to stop it is for the qb to play better. We'll see if that happens or not. I hope so.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | December 2, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I'll go with the glass half-full approach here:

At least it's December and we're still in the playoff race. Under a first year (and first time) head coach, that's no small thing. I can recall too many seasons under Petibon, Norv, Schottenheimer, Spurrier, where playoff hopes were basically shot before Thanksgiving.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 2, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

It is not Jason's fault that he has recievers that can't separate,drop balls,an O Line that Cerrato et al;,morons that they are ignored,in the draft. They are old and slow. I'm not completely sold on #17,but he deserves a fair shake. As long as Snyder and Cerrato run this team,they'll be also rans. They are arrogant and incompetant.

Posted by: ridgely1 | December 2, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Jason, just because you share the same name as JC does not mean you are family.... Stop bending over backwards for the guy. JC may have the physical gifts that only comes from good genes but the intangibles are not there. He shows no passion and no urgency for the game. He reminds me of Eli before he turned it around, always looking lost and defeated. Philip Rivers is not the most likeable QB but at least he has fire in his belly and a willingness to challenge his own players and coaches... JC is simply a dud....

Posted by: skinfannomore | December 2, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

"JC is simply a dud in my opinion....

Posted by: skinfannomore "


fixed that last part for ya

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Has anyone looked at Jason's stats this year before blurting out b.s like "he is an average QB" ? Take a look at the bigger picture morons. He has taken care of the football, made smart decisions, and kept plays alive. Problem is, the box has been stacked recently to stop the run, and afet defenses take away Santana and Cooley, the rest of the players SUCK, and now coordinators have opened up a can of whup-ass on that sorry O-line. Did you see how Dick Lebeau attacked? you will be seeing that all year form now on. Get of Campbell, and focus your energy on getting a right tackle to begin with, and a receiver that can make a play other than Santana, because the rest are garbage !

Posted by: po403 | December 2, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 2, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

you still don't get it. Could we fix every position in one offseason? No, I wasn't saying that we could, I was saying that you can sign some veteran depth, like three players, one at end, one at linebacker, and one on the oline, and have a full draft class. Does that fix everything? No! Would it have helped so that we wouldn't be stuck playing Blades and Fincher? Yes! Would it have helped so that if Daniels had gotten hurt again like he had every season to date? Yes!

I'm not saying this class is a bust, I am saying its stupid to draft two receivers then cut every receiver but Thrash forcing you to really on the rookies. and I'm saying its stupid to not add decent depth to positions you obviously need it. They used this draft to try and add weapons in the passing game. GREAT! we needed and still do need it. But you can sign a couple of guys to help your depth at other spots?

They had the cap room to do it and they didn't even try, that's my point, would signing three middle of the road free agents made us a super bowl team and fixed every problem....no...but it would have helped us get better and taken some pressure of the draft class and was a very doable thing. My whole point is that it doesn't have to be one thing or the other, you can have a draft class and a reasonable free agency period with a few conservative signings.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 2, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

We will build through FA and the draft this off season, the only qestion is what is it better to use in terms of looking at linemen? I personally think that we are more pressed on O-Line and we should find the best available FA OT's and a guard under the age of 28, as we need to replace those three spots next year.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 2, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas has 11 receptions for 77 yards, 5 first downs. This is not including his 1 receiving TD called back on a penalty and his rushing TD that counted last Sunday.

Santana Moss in his first year had 2 catches for 40 yards and 2 first downs.

Posted by: TheTruth11

Will people stop making this comparison? Santana Moss tore cartilage in his knee during preseason his rookie year and was inactive for the first 11 games of the season.

Talent does not hide well on a football field. Around 300-400 yards should be reasonable for his rookie year, if we expect him to become a consistent and good WR. We'll see how he does down the stretch.

Here's another short list of players to look at:

Andre Johnson, 66 catches, 976 yards
Reggie Wayne, 27 rec, 345 yds
Chad Johnson, 28 rec, 329 yds
Calvin Johnson, 48 rec, 756 yds
Greg Jennings, 45 rec, 642 yds
Terrell Owens, 35 rec, 520 yds
Brandon Marshall, 20 rec, 309 yds
Larry Fitzgerald, 58 rec, 780 yds
Anquan Boldin, 101 rec, 1377 yds
Randy Moss, 69 rec, 1313 yds
Plaxico Burress, 22 rec, 273 yds
Hines Ward, 15 rec, 246 yds
Steve Smith, 10 rec, 154 yds
Roddy White, 29 rec, 446 yds


Most of the consistently GOOD/GREAT wide receivers show something in their first year. It's far more unlikely to see a guy nearly completely absent in the receiving game his rookie year end up becoming a good, consistent WR. It just doesn't happen very often. Devin Thomas still has time, but it is NOT a good sign that he's shown essentially nothing so far in the passing game. And he has no excuses but his own play.

Posted by: psps23 | December 2, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Where you gonna get a QB from if you get rid of JC17?

If we cut him, someone will scoop him up right away and he'll be starting next year some where else as an experinced QB who has taken bumps and bruises already....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 2, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

po403: "Get... a receiver that can make a play other than Santana, because the rest are garbage !"

Plenty of teams make do with receivers far worse than the Skins. Blaming the receiving corps shows your ignorance. So what if ARE dropped a 3rd down pass? It was thrown SHORT OF THE MARKER! It didn't matter!

The far bigger issue is the offensive line. If Campbell had plenty of time back there he could be a Mark Rypien tossing bombs. But Campbell is not talented enough to master the quick throws necessary to beat the pass rush. He's not a West Coast QB.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 2, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

cl, thanks for correcting the dude. don't know if leopard suffers from rip van winkle syndrome or not...

in the west coast offense the qb needs to get rid of the ball fast. but jason isn't a west coast dude. why can't this team go back to what they were doing in the begining of the year? and that's why i call zorny a dumb jock. trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. plain stupid.

receivers were getting WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIde open in the begining of the year. all of a sudden even cooley can't go beyond 5 yards? wtf? cooley looked like he was a nobody on sunday. yes, i blame the scheme when jc is in. jc simply cannot be the qb that saunders and zorny want him to be. which brings us full circle back to VINNY who hired a west coast guy. WTF?!?!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Driley,

WR's taking 2-3 years to develop is not my opinion. That knowledge has been around for decades. The ONLY position that it is agreed that rookies consistently produce is RB. Whether or not you agree with it really doesn't matter. Timeframes within the inner circles are what they are because of years of experience that either you or I do not possess. Please don't cite token exceptions either because every now and then a Matt Ryan rolls around but they are the exception not the rule.

shaunsherman12,

Amen. Let's please show some patience people. If we don't then we really are hypocrites when we scream at Danny for patience.

Posted by: croftonpost | December 2, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Did you all hear how dumb-founded and stupid Cerrato sounded in his answers on his show yesterday? DOes that sound like a man who should be making decisions for a billion dollar organization? Please....

Posted by: po403 | December 2, 2008 11:14 AM |


Anyone have a link to a recording of this? I think we should all take a listen....

Posted by: abtassler | December 2, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Let's be honest about Jason Campbell. He's had 4 years for the light to turn on. It's still off. And it's staying off.

The Skins don't need to get rid of him, but I wouldn't sign him to a big-money contract that locks the Skins into him for years. He's replaceable and the Skins should treat him as such.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 2, 2008 11:22 AM

You can't be serious...in 4 years here, Campbell's working on his 3rd different offense. And the light doesn't go on? A COACHING CHANGE TURNS THE LIGHT OFF BEFORE HE GETS A CHANCE!

As for the subsequent fluff you wrote (and by the way, JC is NOT 244 lbs if you put 20 lb weights in his pockets), I'd feel a little better if a GM told me what his problem is. And then, of course, is the fact that HE'S GOT AN 88 QB rating DESPITE AN OLD, MEDIOCRE LINE! Put some weapons around him and give him more than 2 seconds to throw and I'm sure those numbers are even better.

The bottom line is this: JC's season has actually been impressive to date. He's been put on his @ss over 30 times, has 2 legit receivers and is learning his 233rd offense since high school graduation. The NFL is about continuity and he has not been afforded that AT ALL. I guarantee you Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are bums if they're drafted by the Lions or the Cardinals. It's about stability!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 2, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Jasno, I've been one of your bigger critics at times, but my advice is to just give up on the bashers who accuse you of having an agenda defending the QB of the team you supposedly hate. It doesn't matter what you say.

You can post negative stuff, and people like me might shoot back at you. You can post relatively positive stuff like this based on your own observations and conversations with players, and people like the posters above will accuse you (or the WashPost) of having a man-crush on a player.

I agree with other posters that you have been stuck on Leigh Torrence, but I don't believe you like the Redskins enough to publish positive-biased stuff about their starting QB. The players you spoke with say that Campbell is a great leader with solid intangibles, but some of the posters here don't believe you. Why? Because they foolishly think that every good QB yells at people and shows lots of emotion whenever things are good or bad.

Don't bother pointing out that plenty of mediocre-to-bad QBs (Aaron Brooks, Daunte Culpepper) show lots of "fire." Or that Joe Montana barely showed any regardless of how the game was going. They won't listen.

Posted by: jcabana | December 2, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

4th, i guarantee you no one would be jumping to get jc. there are only 3 or 4 players on this team that teams would be clamoring for portis, santa and cooley. no one else is a world beater and no team is going to give up anything for anyone other than these three.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: dealer1 | December 2, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Hey Diesel....check out the film of the first Dallas game, and then tell me if Campbell can master the "west coast" system and make the quick intermediate throws you idiot....and...if youc an find one reputable football person that says that Randle El is a legit #2 wr, or that Thrash is a legit #3, then I will shut up. The facts are, they are both garbage, and would be hard pressed to be in those roles on any playoff caliber team. Get real son...

Posted by: po403 | December 2, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

I cringe whenever the "Skin's" have to play catch-up.Campbell throws too many interceptions, mostly at critical times. The Eagles benched McNabb,when he sucked,why can't the same be done to Campbell?Stick a fork in them "The Skin's", are done.

Posted by: lnyk | December 2, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

I dare any of you to take a second look at the last 5 games - in particular, isolate your view of John Jansen. I'm not certain if his injury did him in or his years of service to the team. But he cannot block anymore. He looks lost, gets tossed around regularly by mediocre talent at D-End. It's almost always his man that sacks/pressures Campbell and stops Portis/Betts behind the line of scrimmage. It's not all on Jansen but he should be watching the game from the bench - not Heyer

Posted by: BenThere | December 2, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Question....how many of yhou played football past high school at a division 1A school and were taught football by a reputable coach that would lead someone to believe that you are qualified to talk about football on a level that commands respect? seriously...how many of you? I bet NONE !

Posted by: po403 | December 2, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Did 700 page Al scale down last year and they did better?

Posted by: ridgely1 | December 2, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

The far bigger issue is the offensive line. If Campbell had plenty of time back there he could be a Mark Rypien tossing bombs. But Campbell is not talented enough to master the quick throws necessary to beat the pass rush. He's not a West Coast QB.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 2, 2008 11:34 AM
You are so correct on this, Campbell can't seem to hit those quick slants to extend drives. Another thing, is it me or are we the only team that doesn't audible out of a certain play. When someone stacks 8-9 in the box maybe we can someday audible out and hit a big play.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 2, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Is this not the same JC from the 1st 4 or 5 games?

One thing that seems the same from the 1st 5 weeks are the plays are the same. the slants and screens to Moss are going to end his career early if they keep calling that same play.

Zorn has grown in his ability to answer questions, but the team seems to have peaked in the 1st quarter of the season and not grown since.

With the lack of QB talent in the NFL, JC is just fine as a QB. Could he be better, maybe. but tell me where you are going to find a QB that will come in and replace him and not take a step backwards. colt brennan would not be that good in some flag leagues in the area. colt has a swagger, but his arm is candy.

Posted by: oknow1 | December 2, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

"Will people stop making this comparison? Santana Moss tore cartilage in his knee during preseason his rookie year and was inactive for the first 11 games of the season.

Posted by: psps23 "

so should I compare him to Malcom Kelley?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 2, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

This is NO DIFFERENT than last year when the Redskins lost 4 in a row with Campbell at QB.. The people who love Campbell blamed everyone but him. The Skins are losing because of the OL, the Skins are losing because of the WR's the Skins are losing because of Snyder, the Skins losing because of President Bush!!! Then Campbell got hurt Collins started and the Redskins won 4 games in a row.. It's simple last year if Campbell didn't get hurt Gibbs would have stuck with him and the Skins would NOT have made the playoffs. Gibbs said Collins performance off the bench was the best he ever saw. Zorn should be thinking of that before he makes a blanket statement that he is not even considering putting Collins in.

Posted by: sovine08 | December 2, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

JC has to step up against Baltimore. At the very least, he has to stop locking in on Moss on a regular basis while the rookie qb on the other team calmly goes through his reads, even when under pressure.

If it doesn't... well, can you imagine what folks we'll be saying next week? Heck, John Madden is the biggest irrational Colt lover there is. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts calling for him during the game.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | December 2, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Hey, with the oline in the state it finds itself, what does the first-team oline look like on Wednesday at practice?

LT - Heyer (?)
LG - Fabini (?) or does Reinhart get the reps?
C - Rabach
RG - Thomas
RT- Jansen

I'd love to see the youngsters in there at some point -- it's hard to evaluate whether we need a bunch of FA signings if you think that maybe the oline next year looks like
LT - Samuels (Heyer, Fabini)
LG - Rinehart (Kendall, Fabini)
C - Rabach (Geisinger, Kendall)
RG - Thomas (Fabini, Geisinger)
RT - Heyer (Jansen, Fabini)

You could replace Fabini pretty easily (i.e., without breaking any banks); Geisinger gets one more year under his belt to replace Rabach.
Then think about someone to replace Samuels in 2-3 years... or earlier if someone pops up.

Posted by: daggar | December 2, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

po403: "Hey Diesel....check out the film of the first Dallas game, and then tell me if Campbell can master the "west coast" system and make the quick intermediate throws you idiot....and...if youc an find one reputable football person that says that Randle El is a legit #2 wr, or that Thrash is a legit #3, then I will shut up. The facts are, they are both garbage, and would be hard pressed to be in those roles on any playoff caliber team. Get real son..."

OK, clown, answer this: would you trade the Skins receiving corps, straight up, for Bo Scaife, Chris Johnson, Brandon Jones, and Justin Gage?

Yeah, that's the 11-1 Titans receiving corps. They don't have a single receiver you'd have traded for Moss, ARE, or Cooley. You think like Matt Millen (or Vinny Cerrato) -- pretty stupid. Time and time again, the NFL has proven that even bad QBs with time to throw will complete passes -- even if you have the Taco Bell late shift as your receiving corps. Jay Cutler has thrown for 3400 yards this year -- and he's throwing to the Jacksons, Marshall, Stokley and Royal.

You know nothing about football. The Skins receivers could use the addition of a big possession receiver (which Cerrato wasted 3 second round picks trying to find), but they're hardly one of the worst receiving corps in the league. Moss could start for any team. That's a luxury. Cooley is top 10, maybe top 5 for his position. Both ARE and Thrash are experienced vets. That's not garbage. By NFL standards, that's pretty darn good.

Blaming the receiving corps for the failing offense is ignorant. So you've agreed to shut up now?

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 2, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

I for one don't see this season as a lost cause. no one thought that this team would be 7-5 at this point. If this team can finish 10-6 under a rookie head coach with no experience, they will have plenty to build on. The skins are not a championship caliber team even if they make the playoffs they are not that team yet. Look around the league, hell the cowboys are supposed to be "back" but a lost to the steelers which is a likely scenario would have them fightin for their playoff lives with 3 weeks left. Zorn is making just as many game-plan mistakes as the team is at executing. They will develop these things over the next 4 weeks and continue again during the offseason and preseason. Watch them play have confidence they will beat the Ravens, but let's not toss them under a bus. I think they showed the Giants run game too much respect or overestimated the corners. The Ravens are good but not the Giants good, so it is a winnable game.

Posted by: russelljharris | December 2, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Those of you who think Jason Campbell is a qualified West Coast QB, answer this: what's his completion percentage on 3rd and short?

That's money time for West Coast QBs.

Campbell completes 64% of his passes overall. So what is it on 3rd and short? Does he get better? Stay the same? Get a little worse?

Come on, answer the question. It's just a Google away...

Just for comparison, Donovan McNabb's completion percentage improves by 15% on 3rd and short -- he's 74%. Eli Manning is 70% on 3rd and short. Tony Romi is 71%. So every NFC East QB is over 70% on 3rd-and-short. Where's Jason?

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 2, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

JoeBoggs: "You are so correct on this, Campbell can't seem to hit those quick slants to extend drives. Another thing, is it me or are we the only team that doesn't audible out of a certain play. When someone stacks 8-9 in the box maybe we can someday audible out and hit a big play."

True. Jason doesn't show the decisiveness necessary to beat the more aggressive defenses. If teams blitz, you've got to burn them. He never does, so they never stop. I blame the OL as much as anyone, but if Campbell wants to be a good QB, he's got to find ways to hit the hot route when a guy comes free. You can't just sit back there like a statue waiting to get hit.

If I'm defending against the Skins, my formula is easy: stack the box to pound Portis, jam Moss at the line, and force Campbell to work his way through his progression. I'll get the sack before he sees his 3rd target -- every time.

Now, that's easy when the OL is playing matador, but it doesn't change the fact that if Campbell could make the quick throws the defenses would have to back off.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 2, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Who remembers when Eli audibled out of an 8 in the box defense and hit Ward for a quick slant for about 15 yards. I do.
He did that maybe because we kept 8 in the box for about 5-6 plays in a row. It maybe harder than I am making it, but it sure isn't rocket science.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 2, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

The Washington Post and its staff is trying to coddle Campbell instead of putting the proper pressure this issu deserves. Jay Schroeder, Mark Rypien, Gus Frerotte and Mark Brunell were ridicuolously attacked if they performed under the necessary level to win for more than 6 weeks straight.

I'm starting to believe that because Campbell is black he is getting special protection from criticism. If Campbell were a white QB, and black QBwere waiting in the wings, then there would be some serious noise after 2 and a half years of ineffectiveness.

No one gets such a pass in DC as Campbell has received. If Campbell is our QB beyond the Ravens game, then I'm afraid we will miss the playoffs.

Posted by: jmounadi | December 2, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Admittedly, the guy in Atlanta, fuzzy cheeked rookie, may be making quarterbacks like Jason Campbell look questionable. How could Atlanta go so far so fast if not for the improved qb play. Even better than Vick. Then there is the Jets and Favre.

I still think its yet another new system for Campbell. For Collins, last year, it was a system that he had been mentored in for about 12 years. He knew it far better than any quarterback ... probably better than ex-Redskin Trent Green.

I agree that Campbell has to step up. But some receivers need to make the extra effort to catch those balls thrown their way and not drop them. As for the line, I think Heyer might be better than Jansen ...

Posted by: periculum | December 2, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

A successful professional QB has potential the 1st year, starts to show that potential in the second year, and is a reasonable competent QB in his 3rd year. Jason is in his 4th year and still does not consistently make big plays in big games. Therefore, Jason is at best mediocre. That in itself is not bad because a lot of mediocre QB's have taken their teams to the Super Bowl by using a good running game to get by their passing deficits. Unfortunately we have a good running game and Jason is not taking advantage of it, therefore he is a sub-par QB.
Let's play one of the other two QBs to see if they can rise to the occassion.
12/2/2008 10:26:08 AM

Posted by: edeshields | December 2, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Vicc.....you're totally missing the boat. Are you really going to argue that Colt Brennan should be installed as the QB due to his PRESEASON numbers? Against guys bagging groceries now? REALLY?

Posted by: ywill316 | December 2, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I'm still believe Colt Brennan is the answer. Accurate, take risky, can feel for the game.
All great QBs have due picks. Since there is not alot of picks for JC, something is wrong.

Posted by: skinsMill | December 2, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Edeshields,

Your point would be valid if he was in his fourth year playing. However, JC has only competed in two years worth of games (32 to be exact). Based on your formula he is showing potential. Holding a clipboard doesn't count.
By the way Rypien didn't start to turn the corner until the end of his fourth year in a very similar scenario to JC ('89). Rypien never would have won the Super Bowl two years later if Gibbs threw in the towel at the exact same point JC is at now which you state as mediocre and hopeless.
Lastly, please don't try to come up with some lame excuse why that was different because it wasn't.

Posted by: croftonpost | December 2, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

why does Campbell get a free pass in this town? Todd Collins is a poor man's Jeff Garcia which is much better than Campbell. Just look at the overall record. (wa wa wa...so many different def coordinators, the WRs suck, blah blah blah..). I'll be a skins fan till I die but Campbell isnt as good as Collins for these last 4 games.

Posted by: drew77 | December 2, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Does Jason Campbell must have some juicy dirt on someone at the Washington Post?

Posted by: baidu | December 2, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

SHUT UP about Campbell "playing in his 3rd offensive scheme"! JFC!! How many has Warner played in? Jeff Garcia? Kerry Collins? I'd take any of them over Campblow. Here's a tip for JC; throw the ball to the open receiver. This guy is never going to be consistent. He was just clamoring for an extension before the Pittsburgh game. He KILLED the Skins that night. I'M SICK OF ROOTING FOR LOSERS! C'mon Skins! Get it together!!

Posted by: tdpillo123 | December 2, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

I previously read a thread, on draft strategy, it made absolute sense on what off season moves should have happened. We always mention that DL needs improvement,
well, if the skins previously drafted DT-Amobi Okoye from Louisville, & this year DE-Calais Campbell, the skins would have been up to par this year. But hey, Vinny
has a vision its called the "I hope it works 20 year plan"

Posted by: madalao | December 2, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

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