Hall Gets His Big Chance with Skins

The Redskins, with limited cap space, made DeAngelo Hall and Albert Haynesworth their free-agency focus, giving them about $65 million guaranteed this winter. But, if such a thing is possible with this team, Hall has flown a little under the radar, given the historic contract signed by Haynesworth.

After speaking often during the season of his desire to stay in the area, he now will get that chance -- as well as the opportunity to create turnovers on a defense starved for them and to become a leader with Shawn Springs gone and with Fred Smoot possibly a year away from his exit.

Hall, along with Chris Horton and Fred Smooth, will be on Capitol Hill at 11 a.m. Thursday to lead area kids in a workout on the west lawn. The event is being held in conjunction with the Fitness Integrated with Teaching Kids Act, which will be reintroduced on the Hill and is aimed at placing a higher priority on physical education in schools. The NFL, American Heart Association and National Association for Sport and Physical Education have called for the passage of the act.

Hall appeared on Washington Post Live yesterday with Jason Reid and discussed his decision to come to Washington. Here's a look:

By Cindy Boren  |  March 18, 2009; 11:22 PM ET
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Comments

1st...

Posted by: lacanforasuxd | March 18, 2009 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Not to go off topic, but so many articles keep talking about failure to upgrade RT by signing that Willis guy. Why get a fill in guy in FA, when what we really need is a new young, strong, healthy premium lineman on the roster. To me, it should be a given and a no-brainer that the Skins will get a premium RT with either the 13th pick or a late 1st or early 2nd if they trade down. Thought the draft seemingly only has four top tier LT prospects, there are at least 4 or 5 more considered prime RT prospects. Lets just count that RT spot as filled. Even if they don't trade down, they will still have a 3rd rounder with which they should be able to snag a good strongside LB prospect, so the two big glaring unfilled spots should, at worst, be able to be filled in the draft even with no trade downs and no further big FA signings.

Posted by: kenboy1 | March 18, 2009 11:33 PM | Report abuse

Hall may be worth the money:

The campaign to cut ARE and Thrash starts now.

We can sign Torry Holt and hope one of our 2nds develops and we'd end up with more money.

Stats about our non-Moss receivers:
1) Holt had more yards than ARE + Thrash
2) 8 teams' 3rd receivers had more yards than ARE + Thrash.
3) 15 receivers had more yards in a SINGLE GAME than Thrash had for the season.

.... how much more do you need to know...

Posted by: mac2j | March 18, 2009 11:34 PM | Report abuse

the camera man needs to stop nodding 'no'

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 18, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

Even as everyone is focusing on the defense, I'm actually kind of excited about the offense. I expect the D to be more than solid this year.

JC is finally getting a second year of continuity, Zorn should be able to bring some lessons learned from his rookie HC year, and that #13 pick should go towards bringing a 10-year anchor to the offensive line. That would not only help JC17 in the passing game, but it would help the short yardage game so Portis can get more than 9 TDs on nearly 400 carries. I'm also looking for Thomas and Kelly to become an upgrade from ARE and Thrash.

The next problem areas I see are at K and P. It's hard to beleive there aren't any reliable free agents out there. Aren't there more than 32 men in the world who can kick field goals or punt consistently?

Posted by: Alan4 | March 18, 2009 11:49 PM | Report abuse

ARE had more yards than ARE + Thrash

ARE isn't going anywhere for 2 years, he redid his contact this year and that means ... more guarantee upfront.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 18, 2009 11:50 PM | Report abuse

Fred Smooth? Is he going Hollywood when his football playing days are over?

P.S. Maybe this guy could be our 3rd down back/punt returner if he slips into the 5th:

Antone Smith, RB, Florida State
Height: 5-8. Weight: 191.
Projected 40 Time: 4.40.
Pro Day 40 Time: 4.33.
Benchx225: 31. Vertical: 32. Broad: 10-2.
Projected Round (2009): 4-5.
3/18/09: With a 40 of 4.33, 31 reps on the bench press, a 32-inch vertical and a 10-2 broad jump, Antone Smith definitely put himself on the radar. Smith rushed for 792 yards and 15 touchdowns. He also caught 10 passes for 101 yards.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 19, 2009 12:11 AM | Report abuse

RT
22. Jon Jansen (Redskins) 6.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)

RG
19. Randy Thomas (Redskins) 4.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

LG
17. Pete Kendall (Redskins) 3.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
32. Derrick Dockery (Bills) 8.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)

C
31. Casey Rabach (Redskins) 5.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)

LT
6. Jordan Gross (Panthers) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
6. Jammal Brown (Saints) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)
6. Jared Gaither (Ravens) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)
6. Marcus McNeill (Chargers) 3.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)
6. Tony Ugoh (Colts) 3.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)
6. Chris Samuels (Redskins) 3.0 sacks allowed (12 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

Posted by: periculum

Thanks for the posts that showed every starting lineman and how many sacks allowed.

Pretty ugly. Our 'best' player was Samuels, no surprise there. Our next best was Kendall and he's getting replaced by Dockery, who gave up more sacks than any interior linemen in the entire league.

Also of note in peri's post (near the end of the prior thread) -- about 60% of the OL started all 16 games -- meaning the average OL had 2 positions where backups started at some point during the year.

Its probably worse than that in reality, since some of the 'starters' were backups that became starters due to the #1 guy getting hurt. Which is what happened here when Jansen replaced Heyer when Heyer got dinged up.

Goes to show how important it is to have depth on the OL, not just starters.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 19, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

also in Peri's list -- Ryan Clady -- who was the tackle that allowed the fewest sacks in the entire league. What's interesting about that? He was a rookie in 2008, the #12 pick overall.

Goes to show that you can get an instant return on the OL with a pick around #13.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 19, 2009 12:24 AM | Report abuse

Look at the Falcons. A team who did a better job rushing and went to the playoffs. And a great job making their rookie QB look good. McClure is the same age as Rabach. All the rest except for Weiner are young and can play multiple positions along the line.

RG 4. Harvey Dahl (Falcons) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
RT 6. Tyson Clabo (Falcons) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
LG 7. Justin Blalock (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
LT 6. Todd Weiner (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)
C 1. Todd McClure (Falcons) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

And Weiner is now a backup. Sam Baker there 1st round pick last year starts at left tackle.

Posted by: periculum | March 19, 2009

Posted by: periculum | March 19, 2009 12:49 AM | Report abuse

Just finished reading some pieces on Andre Smith and I'm convinced he's going to be an absolute steal if he falls beyond the top 10 in the draft. If he's available, the Skins need to draft him within the first 10 seconds of the draft clock, not think twice about it, then enjoy the stability of a franchise tackle for the next 10 years. All the talk about "character" concerns are an absolute joke. Unadulterated, unquestionable, and completely ridiculous.

Fan #1 on the Andre Smith bandwagon.

Posted by: psps23 | March 19, 2009 1:19 AM | Report abuse

Walter Football has us taking Andre Smith at 13 in their newest mock draft.

OTOH, Matt at Walter Football has been saying Andre Smith has poor footwork and is over-rated for a long time (and that Smith might only be suited for guard in the NFL).

What's your opinion of Michael Oher, psps? My impression is that Oher has more talent than Andre Smith, and anything else Oher lacks could be cured by good coaching.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 19, 2009 1:35 AM | Report abuse

Here's what Matt at Walter Footbal has to say about Andre Smith:

"I am simply not buying it that Smith will be a reliable player in the NFL. I see him gaining a ton of weight, not hitting the weight room, and being very lazy not doing the little things it takes to be great. He is in it for the money and not because he wants to be one of the best."

Interestingly the former Cowboys personnel guy, Gil Brandt, sees similarities with Nate Newton who didn't test well and had some weight issues.

Matt seems more concerned about Smith's attitude, with a little comment about his feet thrown in. Besides trying to divine what's in Smith's head, Matt doesn't back up his criticism with much evidence.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 19, 2009 1:51 AM | Report abuse

I'm have no idea who we should or shouldn't draft, though I know what positions we need to address.

As much as people have blamed Vinny for poor drafts, the truth is that predicting success is very hard to do. Our 1st round picks have been good ... Rogers, Landry, ST21, Campbell. Vinny deserves kudos for that.

There are plenty of disasters, like #1 overall Alex Smith in SF. Once upon a time, lots of people figured Ryan Leaf would go #1 overall. Instead, he went #2 and did nothing, though the #1 pick turned out OK (Peyton something or other). Tony Mandarich was going to be the best OL ever. Didn't happen.

Personally, I think a guy with the right attitude is more likely to succeed than a guy with a bit more talent and a questionable attitude. But judging attitude isn't easy either.

If the Skins see a player they feel is a lock at a position of need, they should go get him. The Wake Forest LB would be a good example of a guy everyone seems to think is going to be very good. LBs usually don't go as high because they play fewer downs due to nickel packages, so maybe the Skins have a shot at him if they trade up.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 19, 2009 2:45 AM | Report abuse

Problem with all these OTs is we're looking at them in relation to one another rather than to NFL linemen. The position is very deep, but is there a star at the top of it?

There's no way to know. Outside of a few Senior Bowl practices (if that much), and the odd game, we haven't even seen them go head to head with each other, let alone the Jints.

Which is why there's such a big error factor in using high picks on OLmen. Unlike RBs and WRs, they operate as part of a unit, blocking not only the man in front of them, but anybody else who happens to get in their way. Their success depends as much on toughness and an odd sort of intelligence as on athleticism -- stuff you can't measure with binoculars and a watch.

These five who're likely to go in the first round -- can any of us say with any real authority that one will turn out better than the others?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 19, 2009 3:01 AM | Report abuse

Sports Illustrated has a positive piece about Andre Smith. I'd be schoked if he lasts til 13. Too bad, might be interesting having a guy on the roster with a fine sent of manboobs like that.

Posted by: TheCork | March 19, 2009 3:14 AM | Report abuse

Well, at least we know ol Andre isn't on Roids.

Like Mandarich was.

I really hope he falls to 13. We can either pick him, or dangle him for two picks. Both would be great.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | March 19, 2009 3:29 AM | Report abuse

Is he talking about the same Gregggg Williams we know?

SHARPER TAKES A SHOT AT VIKINGS’ DEFENSE
Posted by Mike Florio on March 18, 2009, 10:03 p.m.
Former Vikings safety Darren Sharper, who previously has said that his talents don’t fit the Tampa 2 defense that the Vikings have used for the last three seasons, took a shot at the scheme on his way out the door.

The comments came as Sharper was singing the praises of new Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams.

“He’s excellent,” Sharper said of Williams, according to Sean Jensen of the St. Paul Pioneer Press. “I talked to guys around the league, and they loved playing for him. He doesn’t get caught up in, ‘This is my system.’ He utilizes his players to the best of their ability, and that’s something that I’ve been looking for the last couple of years.”

Sharper thinks that he might be able to help his new team reach a level that the franchise has never seen.

“It’s a chance to go the Super Bowl,” Sharper said. “We have the best offense in the league. We needed to add some things, and I think we did.”

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 5:46 AM | Report abuse

Look at the Falcons. A team who did a better job rushing and went to the playoffs. And a great job making their rookie QB look good. McClure is the same age as Rabach. All the rest except for Weiner are young and can play multiple positions along the line.

RG 4. Harvey Dahl (Falcons) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
RT 6. Tyson Clabo (Falcons) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
LG 7. Justin Blalock (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
LT 6. Todd Weiner (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)
C 1. Todd McClure (Falcons) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

And Weiner is now a backup. Sam Baker there 1st round pick last year starts at left tackle.

Posted by: periculum *********

Sacks should also be blamed on the QB. Alanta has a young guy that gets rid of the ball, JC holds it and pats it forever. JC gets the blame IMO for half the seasons sacks.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 19, 2009 6:30 AM | Report abuse

Those of you using these sacks allowed numbers to somehow rank lineman have to knock that off...that's one of the most misleading stats in all of football. There's no way to accurately gauge who's fault a sack is on a particular play. Sometimes it's on the lineman, sometimes it's on the QB not getting rid of the ball, sometimes it's a RB missing a block. Unless you sit down with the coach after the game and go over each assignment, you won't really know the answer.

Lineman have no statistics. That's why Pro-Bowl lineman are voted there based almost exclusively on popularity.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 6:44 AM | Report abuse

Look at the Falcons. A team who did a better job rushing and went to the playoffs. And a great job making their rookie QB look good. McClure is the same age as Rabach. All the rest except for Weiner are young and can play multiple positions along the line.

RG 4. Harvey Dahl (Falcons) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
RT 6. Tyson Clabo (Falcons) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
LG 7. Justin Blalock (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
LT 6. Todd Weiner (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)
C 1. Todd McClure (Falcons) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

And Weiner is now a backup. Sam Baker there 1st round pick last year starts at left tackle.

Posted by: periculum | March 19, 2009

Posted by: periculum | March 19, 2009 12:49 AM |

Interesting analysis, Mr. Periculum. Not sure that it is so interesting it deserves to be posted multiple Xs, but anyway. By most if not all stats used to measure OL performance, the Falcons OL performed admirably in 2008. They ranked 5th in fewest sacks allowed. Here's another interesting stat, each player's draft #:

Name Draft #

Harvey Dahl UD
Tyson Clabo UD
Just Blalock 39
Todd Weiner 47
Todd McClure 237

Where UD=undrafted. Not a lot of top picks in this group, are there? Chad Rinehart, a 93rd 2008 Skins OL pick who has yet to play a down in the NFL, would fit in nicely with that group, at least in terms of his pick #. At this point one could say that this performance by the Falcon's OL is due to a QB that has a quick release and finds open targets immediately. But we wouldn't want to go there would we? (Matt Ryan, the Falcon's rookie QB, was learning his 10th different offensive system in 2008. We all know how hard that is, don't we?) Instead let's go here:

1. OL performance is not "skill" driven. It is the result of good coaching and good work habits.
2. The Skins would be stupid to use a 13 pick on the OL.
3. The Skins should think seriously of getting a new OL coach (preferably not one who (a) is retired, (b) never coached in the NFL, (c) last coached at a division IV college and (d) is a crony of Vinnie's). The game has passed the current one by. He doesn't understand how to shut down the DL schemes and techniques that teams are using these days.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 19, 2009 6:50 AM | Report abuse

The Skins should think seriously of getting a new OL coach (preferably not one who (a) is retired, (b) never coached in the NFL, (c) last coached at a division IV college and (d) is a crony of Vinnie's). The game has passed the current one by. He doesn't understand how to shut down the DL schemes and techniques that teams are using these days.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 19, 2009 6:50 AM

I'm hoping you meant to say DL coach...because not only is Bugel a legendary OL coach, but he's also got a ridiculous amount of experience taking low round draft picks and UFAs and making them serviceable players.

Now, if it's a better head coach you want I could get with that effort...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 6:58 AM | Report abuse

I am with AntonChigurh that Buges is starting to show his age.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 19, 2009 7:16 AM | Report abuse

Let me clarify I have a lot of respect for Bugel but the guy looked different last year after his daughter died and I got a vibe that it effected the lines.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 19, 2009 7:23 AM | Report abuse

Starting to show his age? I don't get that, he seems to have just as much energy as ever from what I've seen. If there's a better option than Buges, I'm all ears. But quality coaches don't grow on trees and I wouldn't be quick to dump him if we're just gonna get another Palermo in here.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 7:26 AM | Report abuse

I am with AntonChigurh that Buges is starting to show his age.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 19, 2009 7:16 AM

I think it's the o line that's showing it's age. You can only do so much with broken down players and very little new blood.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 19, 2009 7:27 AM | Report abuse

I said it toward the end of the off season last year, that my plan would be that you get one of the ex-hoggs who is coaching now and bring him on as an assistant line coach, then let Bugel choose to retire after a season or offer him a front office position, I would love to see him in charge of a scouting plan to look at building a young line for the team, and put him on quality control. Ray Brown would be my top choice though he is the line coach in buffalo now, but I am guessing a chance to work under Bugs is worth something.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 19, 2009 7:31 AM | Report abuse

Let me clarify I have a lot of respect for Bugel but the guy looked different last year after his daughter died and I got a vibe that it effected the lines.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 19, 2009 7:23 AM

I doubt there's a Redskin fan alive who doesn't respect Buges, so no explanation necessary, Alex. But I have a daughter and if I had to watch her suffer and die with cancer it would take a lot out of me too. If it affected his career, I think he would have had the decency to walk away and no one would fault him. But I think the failures of the line last year had more to do with the personnel and injuries than it did with Buges' coaching.

And bear in mind that the Skins tried some weird Frankenstein creation of the Gibbs run game/WCO pass game hybrid which had to do some damage to the performance of the blockers.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 7:38 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins should sign Andre Smith the idiot from Alabama who has not quite gotten it yet but his play on the field speaks for itself he can play both tackle spots and since Samuels is coming off of a major injury his value could be huge this kid is a physical speciman with loads of talent....

Posted by: TheBeatDontStop | March 19, 2009 7:41 AM | Report abuse

my plan would be that you get one of the ex-hoggs who is coaching now and bring him on as an assistant line coach, then let Bugel choose to retire after a season or offer him a front office position

Posted by: alex35332 | March 19, 2009 7:31 AM

MY plan would have been to get an ex-Hog to be the HEAD coach...Russ Grimm! But no one in power at Redskins Park is giving enough of a damn about the rich heritage of this team to reach back and apply some of that great talent to today's Redskins. Just another reminder of this team's lack of identity...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 7:45 AM | Report abuse

"Just another reminder of this team's lack of identity..."

Every "good" team has an identity, a tradition that can only be built through stability. If you have the same philosophy for a long period of time, you can only get better at executing it. Firing coaches every 2 years won't bring any tradition back to the Skins...nor will neglecting draft picks.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 7:54 AM | Report abuse

Wouldn't this be Hall's third "Big Chance"? I mean, he was a first-round pick in Atlanta. That's a big chance, and he pretty much blew it. Then he was signed to a mega-deal by Oakland. He blew that. So aren't we on to his third "Big Chance" by now?

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | March 19, 2009 7:56 AM | Report abuse

Sacks should also be blamed on the QB. Alanta has a young guy that gets rid of the ball, JC holds it and pats it forever. JC gets the blame IMO for half the seasons sacks.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 19, 2009 6:30 AM |

Sack attribution is always a hard call. Peyton Manning, Mr. Quick Release, had a difficult 1st season. He led the league in interceptions, 28, and his team had a 3-13 record. But the Colts ranked 2nd in fewest sacks allowed, 22. Was this because the OL was good or because Peyton rushed his throws to prevent sacks and hence got intercepted a lot?

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 19, 2009 7:59 AM | Report abuse

Every "good" team has an identity, a tradition that can only be built through stability. If you have the same philosophy for a long period of time, you can only get better at executing it. Firing coaches every 2 years won't bring any tradition back to the Skins...nor will neglecting draft picks.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 7:54 AM

Well said, Yoder. What frustrates me is that the Skins could have set up that stability by making a hire that would have matched the principles and ideals of Joe Gibbs...and in my mind, who better than a guy who not only played under Gibbs and was a part that great Redskin tradition, but the storied Steeler tradition as well? Grimm would have been the perfect selection and now the Skins find themselves starting over AGAIN because they hired a guy (regardless of qualifications) who has a completely different philosophy from his predecessor.

But that's water under the bridge at this point, it is what it is...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 8:01 AM | Report abuse

I like Smith too. Young lineman good. Fire baad.

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 19, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

"Grimm would have been the perfect selection and now the Skins find themselves starting over AGAIN because they hired a guy (regardless of qualifications) who has a completely different philosophy from his predecessor.

But that's water under the bridge at this point, it is what it is..."

I completely agree. I couldn't believe he wasn't even interviewed, but I wouldn't imagine any of the guys from Gibbs 1.0 wanting to work for Snyder anyway. It's sad because some teams never succeed in building an identity like the Skins had. To completely remove yourself from those values and practices is foolish. It seems like Tomlin embodies much of what Cowher did...keeping LaBeau around sure didn't hurt. But my point is, when you think of the Steelers you think of a smash-mouth team with a nasty defense. That hasn't changed in many years, and they're the first team to win 6 super bowls...

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Agreed, Yoder. The thing that really chaps my ass is that Tomlin is a VA guy. He would have been a great hire for the Skins...a (somewhat) local boy done well and leading the home team to the promised land. But this ownership would never have the foresight or the wisdom in making a hire like that.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

kenboy

'....Why get a fill in guy in FA, when what we really need is a new young, strong, healthy premium lineman on the roster....'

Excellent response, sir.

Would you like to go to the Double Jeopardy round?

Wait a minute:
(INSERT Roger Goodell's baritone: "The 13th pick of the 2009 NFL draft goes to, wait....there's been a trade. The Washington Redskins have traded the 13th pick in this year's draft and Carlos Rogers to the Arizona Cardinals for wide reciever Anquan Boldin."

BACKGROUND dissolves in to scenes mock horror, shock, applause, dropped babies in Loudon, Md., image of a red-suitted pimp slapping his hoe with $100 bills, bloggas run to their computers and type, "I told you so," video of the Danny's 'copter airlifting from Redskins' Park, and finally, Boldin smiling in a redskins' jersey come dinner time.)

Moe, you just contradicted yourself.

Ya, I know, but hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

I think re-signing Hall was a good move. The guy clearly is more athletic than Rogers, and if he is playing in a two deep zone where he can take some chances, I think he will pick off more than a few passes this year. I believe the secondary is solid on paper, and if the front four can generate a pass rush, the secondary should look even better than they do on paper.

One last thing on Hall. This guy was a specatacular punt returner in college. I would like to see him field a few in the pre-season. He probably is the fastest guy on the team these days, and with Randal El struggling in returns, it might be interesting to see if there are more alternatives than Moss to occasionally return punts to shake things up.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 19, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

moe, so with Moss, and Boldin at the WR positions, how is JC going to complete a pass to them from his arse, because unless they shore up that line, its gonna be lather rinse repeat.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 19, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Moe, you're NUTS if you think Rogers and the 13th pick are enough to get Boldin out of Arizona. You'd have to send THE REST of this year's draft and some of next year's to make that worth their while.

Remember: Jerry Jones set the bar with WR trades when he gave up a 1st, 3rd, and 6th to Detroit for Roy Williams. Boldin is TWICE the player Williams is and you'd have to give up AT LEAST a couple of 1st rounders.

The Red Stripe guys said it best:

Booo trades for WRs
Hoooraaay drafting lineman!

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Brown, your main point that I believe is the key to success is maintaining a winning philosophy. You mentioned going from Gibbs to Zorn, pretty much complete opposites. Schottenheimer to Spurrier, then back to Gibbs...I mean no wonder the team has been mediocre. They have no idea who they are. And leave it to the Steelers to find Tomlin...makes me sick how they seem to do everything right.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Agreed, Greg...I don't see how a 5 yard screen to Boldin as opposed to a 5 yard screen to Moss is going to make this team any better. Improve the line, improve the play calling, improve the two clowns you drafted to play WR last year, and you've got something.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

"The guy clearly is more athletic than Rogers"

I think he just has better hand-eye coordination. Los can cover better than Hall.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

But this ownership would never have the foresight or the wisdom in making a hire like that.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 8:18 AM

What are you talking about? When they hired Zorn they talked to several candidates "like that" and may or may not have made an offer to one of them, Spagnolo. That was exactly the profile they were seeking. And Zorn may yet prove to be a "hire like that."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 19, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

And leave it to the Steelers to find Tomlin...makes me sick how they seem to do everything right.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 8:27 AM

It's easier to get the right coach when you have established what principles and style of play you'll employ. The Steelers have been the same football team for about 40 years now...the only thing that changes is the names on the back of the jerseys. You'd be surprised how much easier a coaching search is when you already know the type of guy you want.

But it's probably not a fair comparison since the Steelers have been owned by the same family since Day 1. I've always admired the Steelers and the way they run that organization. It just amazes me that nobody else seems to emulate their way of doing things.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

beantown/brownwood


Any post using the image of a pimp slapping someone should never be taken seriously.

Unless, of course, the pimp is so excited he slaps his own momma.

Moe is on record as a supporter of the notion that Devin Thomas should be put in the position to beat out Randle El for the 'Z' receiver slot--not that he's better, but playing time cures a lot of ills for young guys and he is a high pick.

Let's see if that happens

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

brown, is BRINGING IT, with that post. Right there, if everything else remains status quo, they'll most likely have a much more successful year this year.

The Times has a piece on Jon Jansen. The good news is that he's trying to get himself in the best shape of his career. The bad news is that he thinks the starting RT job should be his.

If buges gives him the job outright, then I'm gonna be pretty frustrated....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 19, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Anyone checked any mocks to see where Clint Sintim is going? I wouldn't mind trading down and picking him up if possible.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

What are you talking about? When they hired Zorn they talked to several candidates "like that" and may or may not have made an offer to one of them, Spagnolo. That was exactly the profile they were seeking. And Zorn may yet prove to be a "hire like that."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 19, 2009 8:30 AM

About the only thing the Zorn hire was was outside the box. And you give Vinny too much credit...I'd have more faith in the hire if they didn't make him a coordinator first and once it was apparent no one else worth a damn was interested in the job, gave it to Zorn. That whole process was a mess, and if Zorn ends up being any good it's not because they saw that, it's 100% pure luck.

And you have to admit that hiring a guy from the WCO background is almost a complete 180 from what Gibbs was about. Switching coaches is one thing...switch philosophies a bunch of times is just destructive.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

"The Steelers have been the same football team for about 40 years now...the only thing that changes is the names on the back of the jerseys."

= 6 Super Bowls

People are just way too impatient nowadays. If you think you've hired the right guy, you like what he brings to the table and believe in his plan, you need to give him time to execute it.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

brownwood

'....It's easier to get the right coach when you have established what principles and style of play you'll employ...'

So true.

It really is an argument for letting Zorn serve out the term of his contract--no matter what--and trying to develope a consistent offensive program, right down to the type of linemen, wideouts, backs the team needs.

A lot of what's wrong with the skins is the result of the wacky coaching changes the fanbase--and team--has endured.

Maybe Zorn gets us on the Road to Wellville.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Zorn gets us on the Road to Wellville.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 8:54 AM

Or the Road to Perdition...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

More rumors about Cutler coming to DC. Looks like McDaniels really wants Cassell in Denver.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Cutler-to-Redskins-in-three-way-deal-Cassel-to-;_ylt=AuWtXnMGGcKC53JB6qw18jE5nYcB?urn=nfl,149110

Posted by: isnadd | March 19, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

beantown

Jansen is so done.

He's served his time and earned his money.

Thing is, if the team doesn't take a tackle at 13, that means he's battlin' Heyer for a starting job--and to be honest, this is something that might happen.

So, you're going to be frustrated.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

RI MArch Madness Bracket Challenge:

http://games.espn.go.com/tcmen/frontpage

Group:

RI Hamsters

Password:

ST21

(CAPS Sensitive)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

More rumors about Cutler coming to DC. Looks like McDaniels really wants Cassell in Denver.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Cutler-to-Redskins-in-three-way-deal-Cassel-to-;_ylt=AuWtXnMGGcKC53JB6qw18jE5nYcB?urn=nfl,149110

Posted by: isnadd | March 19, 2009 9:00 AM |

He's taking that from the earlier rumors, nothing new to see move on.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Cutler to Redskins in three-way deal?

Cassel to Denver?The Philadelphia Inquirer reported the Washington Redskins are trying to land unhappy quarterback Jay Cutler from the Denver Broncos. According to the report, the rumored deal would also include the Kansas City Chiefs.

According to the report, Cutler would end up in Washington, Matt Cassel in Denver and Jason Campbell in Kansas City.

According to The Inquirer, the 'Skins are denying they have any intention of dumping Campbell, which shows they were paying attention when the Broncos got themselves into this mess to begin with. New coach Josh McDaniels, formerly QB coach and offensive coordinator for the Patriots, actively tried to trade Cutler for Cassel last month, didn't succeed, then lied about it.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Pioli wanted Cassell on his team he is not going to trade him for JC, Pioli is to smart to make that deal.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood and Yoder

I agree with the coaches, however I think Zorn will surprise even more this year. I for one did not think we were going to do as well as we did last year, to be honest. Still wasn't what I wanted, but better than expected with 1st year coach and new system.

The issue is that Vincenzo and Danny, dont do due diligence on anything. They dont seem to research players or coaches, they just do and shoot from the hip.

I feel our biggest issue is scouting, trainers and constant yo-yo actions from upstairs.

It seems as if we dont do anything right at times, we do what is flashy and hot in Snydely's eyes.

I also can not get behind picking up A. Smith for OL, my biggest worries is this: if you look at alot of the drafts, people have all 4 of the top linemen leaving before we pick???

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 19, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

You're right. nothing new.

I think the denial makes it more intriguing. Because a denial doesn't validate anything....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Crowell is a Buc (fanhouse)

Fletch, Mac , and Blades 'the new police drama on th WB'

still could take backer dpends on whose NOT there

McCune is still there

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 19, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Don't be so sure about KC trading Cassell, if they could stockpile a few draft picks they could benefit from this trade.

Cassell is going to make a ton of money this season based on being franchised, why would KC want to have that payroll when they are several years away from winning?

Posted by: isnadd | March 19, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Answered my own question about Clint Sintim from earlier...nfldraftsite has the stud OLB going to the Phins with our 2nd rounder we so graciously gave up. That would add injury to insult. I would still try to trade down and pick him up along with a RT. He was graded the 2nd best OLB behind Curry before the Combine, and I don't care how much Cushing benches. Wishful thinking though...

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

It feels that Vincenzo has just fallen asleep after AH and Hall were signed, I think we could have gotten some of these late signings for good deals, but it is like they quit...almost like creating your own player on Madden or NCAA, you give him the most points, make him 6'8 and trounce people, but dont make anyone else better.

Also, I hope that Dock steps up and returns to his old playing habits, I have read things in Buffalo that he is alot slower now, that is concerning.

I for the life of me can not figure out we have not made any attempt to talk to Kevin Shaffer from Cleveland and have not heard anything about him anywhere, since Cleveland released him. Only 4 sacks last year...

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 19, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

brownwood26: "What frustrates me is that the Skins could have set up that stability by making a hire that would have matched the principles and ideals of Joe Gibbs...Grimm would have been the perfect selection and now the Skins find themselves starting over AGAIN because they hired a guy (regardless of qualifications) who has a completely different philosophy from his predecessor."

Hiring a guy from the same tradition doesn't always turn out well. Don't forget Richie Petitbon.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 19, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

I don't get the lack of interest in Shaffer either, thats confusing to me. PFT is reporting that Levi Jones might be getting released as well. I'd take either one at RT over the current choices.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 19, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

And I think Haley will do well with Thigpen, I dont think they really needed Cassel, but Pioli likes him alot. Obviously the kid is liked and respected to have two former Pats guys fighting over him...

I am more pissed than anything that Kelly and Thomas were not at workouts, this outrages me, due to our WR sucking last year and we needing them to get their a$$es in gear. I personally hate ARE and Thrash, I scream so loud at the TV when he returns punts and Thrash is on the field for anything other than specials

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 19, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Don't be so sure about KC trading Cassell, if they could stockpile a few draft picks they could benefit from this trade.

Cassell is going to make a ton of money this season based on being franchised, why would KC want to have that payroll when they are several years away from winning?

Posted by: isnadd | March 19, 2009 9:12 AM |

They would eat that entire contract in salary cap hit this year if he is traded.


The article said nothing of draft picks, plus they gave up a high second to get Cassell.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

About the only thing the Zorn hire was was outside the box. And you give Vinny too much credit...I'd have more faith in the hire if they didn't make him a coordinator first and once it was apparent no one else worth a damn was interested in the job, gave it to Zorn. That whole process was a mess, and if Zorn ends up being any good it's not because they saw that, it's 100% pure luck.

And you have to admit that hiring a guy from the WCO background is almost a complete 180 from what Gibbs was about. Switching coaches is one thing...switch philosophies a bunch of times is just destructive.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 8:45 AM

Blah, blah, blah.

The point was that they actively sought to make a hire like Tomlin. They interviewed several candidates who would be Tomlin look alikes. One reason for your assertion that "the process was a mess" was because they waited to interview Spags, apparently their preferred candidate and the one who most closely aligns with your "hire like that."

Look, there's not a lot to like about Snyder and Cerrato, but you're ignoring history when you write "this ownership would never have the foresight or the wisdom in making a hire like that."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 19, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

I would stay away from L. Jones from Cincy, I live here and let me tell you, the players say he is one of the laziest people on the team and gets injured, cuz he is fat now. Shaffer seems like a winner to me, his report says he is a top tier run blocking OL and that his pass blocking is improving every year - above average. He also looks mean, like he would just really enjoy pancaking a Gint, that is what I want!

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 19, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

kenboy1 wrote: Not to go off topic, but so many articles keep talking about failure to upgrade RT by signing that Willis guy. Why get a fill in guy in FA, when what we really need is a new young, strong, healthy premium lineman on the roster...."

AGREED: We tried to get HACKETT @ WR last year, he had like 14 catches Devin Thomas had 11.

We definitely need RT and maybe LT that is the scary thing

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 19, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

I think the reason the skins are moving slowly on Shaffer is because he has problems against speed rushers. That doesn't bode well against teams in our division.

Posted by: TWISI | March 19, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Pioli wanted Cassell on his team he is not going to trade him for JC, Pioli is to smart to make that deal.

Posted by: Flounder21

I've been thinking this all along.....Pioli made the trade because he wants Cassell...so he would just relinquish Cassell to McDaniels?

Can we just STOP this insane rumor???

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 19, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

lsskinsfan: "Sacks should also be blamed on the QB."

True. But also on the play-caller, the receivers, and the scheme itself.

The most common reason for sacks is also the simplest: time's running out and nobody's managed to get open. The QB's reluctant to dump the ball because he needs the first down, so he holds it, and whoompf! there it is. Down he goes.

The OL may well have maintained their blocks as prescribed. Maybe the receivers were slow off the break, or couldn't separate. Maybe the QB was slow on the reads. Maybe the play itself was wrong for the coverage.

Down goes the QB. We haven't even mentioned blitzes yet.

The OL gets the blame, regardless.

One clue that a lineman is struggling is penalties. Holding, of course, but also off-sides. Both can suggest a player is overmatched against a particular opponent.

Of course, if it's a Raven OL, they're just being their dirty selves.

Sacks are remarkably unreliable as an indicator of flaws in individual players. You have to look elsewhere.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 19, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Lisa, where is the fun in that.....

I don't get it, I really don't.

Funny, up here in Boston, when it was reported incorrectly that the Pats were getting Peppers for the 34th pick, everyone/pats fans, were shooting their mouths off about how smart Bill B is....then the trade never happened....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 19, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Three ways are never bad!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 19, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

I've been thinking this all along.....Pioli made the trade because he wants Cassell...so he would just relinquish Cassell to McDaniels?

Can we just STOP this insane rumor???

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 19, 2009 9:25 AM

Look, the 'Skins are not getting Cutler, but Pioli made the trade because he knows a great deal when he sees it. He would trade Cassell is he got the right price. He gave up a second for Cassell, and I'd bet he'd trade Cassell for a first and a third.

He's building a team and he needs lots of players, not just a QB. Skins have a different philosophy. "We're building a team and we just need one more player."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 19, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Talent evaluator I agree...

TWISI - you say Shaffer is not good against speed rushers, but only giving up 4 sacks in a year, against teams like the Ravens and Steelers who you play two times each, two best Defenses in the league doesnt make much sense to me...

Vincenzo - go get get Shaffer and draft a LB or the best player available for the defense.

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 19, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

TE,

If we gave up a 1st, 3rd and JC for Cutler, I would go to the park and whip Vinny's a$$ myself.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

for christs sake we cant say B$tching on here, what is the Disney blog with Hannah Montana, stupid

Flounder, I agree 100%, but most people on this blog have been complaining about not saving draft picks, but then get on the band wagon to unload the picks for Cutler.

I am one that believes that if this was draft day and we had to choose between Cutler and JCamp, I would pick Cutler, but it is not and bringing in a new QB right now that would have to learn the system, would bring us back to square 1, STUPID.

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 19, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

mac2j wrote:
".......The campaign to cut ARE and Thrash starts now......"

Randle El is b*d a*s, his punt returns have gone down the same as our punt COVERAGE has gone down, blocking?

His best punt returns were in the 10 - 18 yard range but were at key times during victories (see cleveland, philly @ fedx), he threw a game winning TD pass. He had career best 53 receptions.

We need 1 of these youngsters to move to #2 or #1 on the depth chart, I think it already happened at the end of last season.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 19, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

TE,

If we gave up a 1st, 3rd and JC for Cutler, I would go to the park and whip Vinny's a$$ myself.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 9:39 AM

Well, it would at least be better value than the third that we gave up for Mark Brunnell.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 19, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

mhartz1 that's why I don't like stats. When Shaffer became available, I went back and watched the Browns first game against the Ravens, and their game against the Titans, and trust me Shaffer got a lot of TE help and RB chips particularly against Kearse. I don't think he's a bad player, especially if Samuels is on his game the skins could utilize that same strategies. However, as has been mentioned, JZ wants to run a more spread formation so maybe that's why the lukewarm interest on the skins part.

Posted by: TWISI | March 19, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

mhartz

'....Shaffer seems like a winner to me, his report says he is a top tier run blocking OL and that his pass blocking is improving every year - above average...'


This Shaffer dude you speak of, is he really all that or do the bloggas crave him because just because he's availiable?

I think people speak on him just because he's availiable, an act which is a re-occuring theme in this blog.

Whereas some of us feel the team would do well to bring in a kid with the 13 pick to play tackle, my gut feeling is they'll try to start Heyer at rt, and draft a de/slb type, and try to get linemen later on.

The Shaffer thing, the Boldin thing, the Cutler thing: they are all the creatures of idle brains that should be doing their jobs.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Alan4: I agree with the offensive analysis

I don't think anyone should ever worry about the K, P. When your the best team on the field your kicker plays better.


Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 19, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Ok, TWISI, thanks for that, I have not watched any film, so I appreciate it.

Whatever happened to the dude E. Brown from the Cardinals?

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 19, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Look, there's not a lot to like about Snyder and Cerrato, but you're ignoring history when you write "this ownership would never have the foresight or the wisdom in making a hire like that."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 19, 2009 9:18 AM

Dude, YOU'RE ignoring history by giving them credit on making this hire. They reportedly talked to Cowher...no go. They talked to Spags...no dice. They even drove right past Grimm to play footsie with Jim f-ing Fassell. And THEN they came to Zorn since he was in the building already as O-coordinator. Flailing wildly at bigger names and settling on Zorn doesn't mean they made that "outside the box" hire. And you've been huffing too many burgundy and gold fumes from Red Zebra if you see it any other way.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Hartz - and you will note that while you can't say "b**ching", you were able to say "For Christ's Sake". Interesting.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 19, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

And for the record, I'd take Shaffer over anything else out there at RT. Instant upgrade and all the fan appeal of being a local guy (he's from MD). At the right price, there's no better move.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/19/jansen-says-starting-job-is-his/

hahahahahhahahhaha...Jansen thinks he's going to the Pro Bowl.....hahahhahahahaahha and Thomas thinks he's making the Super Bowl winning catch this year......wow, we have a team of delusional people...

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 19, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

pabian

'...Randle El is b*d a*s...'

No, Randle El is just bad.

He's keeping Thomas off the field--let the kid beat him out.

And seeing how Randle El's contract has been re-done to where he can be released at the end of the upcoming season, watch him have a stellar year as he'll see the possible uncapped year ahead and decide to work hard for the money from some other team.

Randle El is a slot receiver who doesn't beat most team's third corner. Whenever he's running crossing routes, it looks like the guy covering him is just on his back.

He fair catches when there's twenty yards of open space in front of him.

Heck, Moss is a better punt returner--let him or Hall or Thomas do it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: periculum - The "sacks given up" stats

Those are great stats, I don't know where you found those, but thanks for the work, I wish i could read FACTS in Washington Post Sports section.

One thing to keep in mind though, more than 30% of our games were against a top 5 defense, and 25% were against a top 3 D.

And we were 6th(?) in rushing. If your line is designed for running...

I hope we get ANDRE SMITH a lot!!!!! If he's not there I hope we get Oher, both SEC guys

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 19, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Shaffer did have problems with speed rushers - thats why they moved him to RT when Joe Thomas came in and he has done much better, facing less speed guys.

Hes only 29, and hed be a good 3 year stop gap until we can groom a good RT. Better option than Jansen or Heyer anyway.

We really CAN"T go into next year with Rabach, Thomas, and Jansen/Heyer on that side. Im sorry, but that prohibits us from running to the right for the most part.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 19, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

According to Jansen, we will not be drafting a RT at pick #13:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/19/jansen-says-starting-job-is-his/

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

For a guy that got tossed around last year, Jansen is talking big sh!t hopefully he does not get the chance to back it up.

If Jansen is the starter at the begining of the year something is wrong.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Don't bet against Jansen making a big comeback this year. Last year he was playing in a great deal of pain. That horrendous broken leg usually takes at least two years to fully heal. If he can stay healthy this year, I think he will have a good season.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | March 19, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

And Weiner is now a backup. Sam Baker there 1st round pick last year starts at left tackle.

Posted by: periculum | March 19, 2009

Posted by: periculum | March 19, 2009 12:49 AM | Report abuse

But Weiner is a total dick.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | March 19, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

"Don't bet against Jansen making a big comeback this year."

Why not? That's where the smart money is.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

'...One thing to keep in mind though, more than 30% of our games were against a top 5 defense, and 25% were against a top 3 D...'

And remember next year, we face AFC West teams with okay defenses, but excellent passing games.

Zorn's assertion that he wants to go WCO-spread is a signal that he knows that winning 32-21 is the option, not losing 14-10.

Hopefully, the offense gets an athletic starter at rt, spreads the field with 3 and 4 wide sets, 'goes for the throat,' and morphs into a scoring machine rather than the snoring machine it was last season.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

MistaMoe wrote: [i'm down on ARE]

Yes Moss is a better punt returner and we will use him in key situations like last season, like the Saints used Bush, too.

You said it he's a #3 (he's been playing #2). Devin Thomas WILL take his place in the depth chart this season.

ARE was also 1 of the first layers to renegotiate his contract to stay here and make room for talent. He has Wildcat Offense potential.

maybe b*d a*s was a little too generous, but a solid player, and the least of our problems

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 19, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

"...spreads the field with 3 and 4 wide sets..."

You must have faith in 1112...oh wait, you want Boldin right?

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

'...But Weiner is a total dick...'


I know Todd Weiner.

He's not that bad of a guy.

He can be a bit of a weiner every now and then.

(INSERT rimshot audio followed by bad pun groan.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Jansen is was a great Redskin, I loved watching him for the last decade. But I'm sorry, he's done at RT, the sooner he gets that and works his but off to maybe move inside or to teach Heyer and the tackle we take at 13 (plz plz plz!) the better we'll be. He should just be thankful he was so good early that he got such a ridiculous contract that he can't be cut and take his money and shut up.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 19, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Don't bet against Jansen making a big comeback this year......

Posted by: RedskinJim1

YEAH! Why are fans so eager to give up on their team. I know it's because, 1. W - L record, and 2. the Front Office.

We had the 6th best rushing attack. A better knowledge of the passing offense and 1 young receiver stepping up, should do the trick.

But, we gotta get ANDRE SMITH, sooner or later Jansen and Samuels are done

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 19, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Yoder

I want Boldin...but we ain't got what it takes to get'em.

He or Jordan Gross of Jake Grove would've been my 'big splashy move.'

But we now have Prince Albert and his 'School of Driving on Slick Roads' to play DT for us.

And I do want to go "...3 and 4 wide..."as I believe Campbell should be put in the position to ear his next contract.

We've been a running team that runs out of gas come late October, let's join the 21st Century and become a passing team that uses the run late in the year to make a playoff push.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Dude, YOU'RE ignoring history by giving them credit on making this hire. They reportedly talked to Cowher...no go. They talked to Spags...no dice. They even drove right past Grimm to play footsie with Jim f-ing Fassell. And THEN they came to Zorn since he was in the building already as O-coordinator. Flailing wildly at bigger names and settling on Zorn doesn't mean they made that "outside the box" hire. And you've been huffing too many burgundy and gold fumes from Red Zebra if you see it any other way.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 9:53 AM

When you're in a hole, stop digging.

You asserted, based on nothing but hate, that the 'Skins would never make a hire like Tomlin.

In fact, the last time they made a hire they interviewed several Tomlin like guys. The one they wanted most was Spagnolo, an assitant from New York. They also interviewed assistants from Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Baltimore. And the guy they hired, Zorn, was not even an assistant.

So keep on making up your fantasies. Don't let the facts get in your way.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 19, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Glad somebody got it Moe.

Im not writing off Jansen as most here seem to be. Hes still a viable back up and has the experience. His cap number IS too high and the odds are against him w/his age and history of injuries. I would be comfortable with Jansen and Heyer goin into Training camp competing for RT. They do need to spend a high pick on the OL, but if they can get a pass rusher (SLB or DE) they can get by w/Jansen/Heyer and draft an OL next year.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | March 19, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

"Look at the Falcons. A team who did a better job rushing and went to the playoffs. And a great job making their rookie QB look good. McClure is the same age as Rabach. All the rest except for Weiner are young and can play multiple positions along the line.

RG 4. Harvey Dahl (Falcons) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
RT 6. Tyson Clabo (Falcons) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
LG 7. Justin Blalock (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
LT 6. Todd Weiner (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)
C 1. Todd McClure (Falcons) 0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

And Weiner is now a backup. Sam Baker there 1st round pick last year starts at left tackle.

Posted by: periculum *********

Sacks should also be blamed on the QB. Alanta has a young guy that gets rid of the ball, JC holds it and pats it forever. JC gets the blame IMO for half the seasons sacks."

Well the reason JC can't throw the ball is because of 2 things. He has 2 5'10 inch recivers that have problems getting seperation so they aren't open, and even if they are, they are hard to see.

And the line is horrible, JC usually has 2 seconds to throw, most QB's have double that or more.

Just watch our DL vs. another team, the QB sits back there all day and survey's the field over and over.

then watch JC he drops back has 3 guys in his face within 2 seconds, he never has time to suvey the field.

It is so obvious that the problem in our passing game is the OL and the fact that our WR's don't get open.

JC can't even hold onto the ball and when he does he is usually on his back.

And that's his fault??

Posted by: avbanig | March 19, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Hopefully, the offense gets an athletic starter at rt, spreads the field with 3 and 4 wide sets, 'goes for the throat,' and morphs into a scoring machine rather than the snoring machine it was last season.
Posted by: MistaMoe

That'd be NICE. And, would take pressure of Portis so he can get that occasional 40 yard TD.

ANDRE SMITH if your listening go get a jaywalking ticket or something WE NEED U @ 13

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 19, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Moe, I've been saying that for the last three years. Defense and a running attack win games at the end of the year, but, especially with only CP and Betts, if you lean to hard on the run too early like we do every year they can't make it the whole year and even if you do squeak into the playoffs you have nothing left when you get there. If we aren't going to add a legit guy to spell CP, then we have to transition to a legit passing game or we have no hope again. CP can't be a 25 carry a game guy and last the whole season anymore and Betts has only ever had one productive, non-injury, non-fumble prone season in his career.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 19, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Anyone got an over/under on illegal formation penalties this year?

Those were called too damn much last year. Who does that fall on?

It seemed a lot of them came when Devin "the dude" Thomas was in the game.

I don't think Campbell was wearing handcuffs last year, it was more like those plastic zip ties. Campbell must take shots down the field this year...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 19, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

"And I do want to go "...3 and 4 wide..."as I believe Campbell should be put in the position to ear his next contract."

I do as well, but you can't do it with ARE and Thrash. Thomas and Kelly's improvement this year is key to the offense having success. Which scares me a little. Regardless, they have to be on the field. I can't watch Thrash drop another ball that hits him in his shoulder pad.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Ugh TE not the don't let the facts get in your way
Line....so cliché. Plus it's all relative.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 19, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Jansen looked like a matador last year at times waving guys through. He can still run block but doesn't have the quickness to pass block at this point. Been a great player but his pride is making him delusional. If we could combine his run blocking with Heyer's pass blocking we could get by this year. Since that is impossible it is time to get a long term replacement now.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 19, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

I'm praying we eventually take a look at Amani Toomer. Cheap, knows our division, can give us some insight into the Giants' schemes, is still dependable, is big, and isn't a big enough name that he would delay Thomas' and Kelly's development but good enough that he would be legit insurance if they suck again. I don't want Holt or Harrison, Thomas and Kelly need every opportunity to grow and we don't need to sign someone that immediately drops them down the depth chart. But if Kelly's knee is still bad and Thomas is still stupid we need a better option than Thrash. Toomer could start opposite Moss and let ARE play the slot if neither of the redshirt rookies can step up.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 19, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

avbaing

I think, for whatever reason, things will 'click' for Jason Campbell this season.

Yes: I do think he was in some way responsible for some of the sacks he took.

But the second time around in Zorn's system, I think he'll have a better grasp of who should and should not be his 1st option on most passing plays, meaning he let's go of the ball quicker.

Plus, Zorny will probably call more of the kind of plays Jason excels at.

If he's having a good season, you have to hope he gets a new deal before it's over.

The question is: how much is he worth money-wise if he's having a good season?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

zj, if they relied more on Betts throughout the course of the year, then Portis would have something left at the end of the year. I want JZ to cut portis's workload back by at LEAST 100 carries.

Also, its become a passing league, its not 1983 anymore...teams rely on the pass moreso than they rely on the run.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 19, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

we need to use Cooley more like Indy does Dallas Clark. Thomas will be ok but I'm worried about Kelly's knee. He may not ever get there

Posted by: Hail2theChief | March 19, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Also, its become a passing league, its not 1983 anymore...teams rely on the pass moreso than they rely on the run.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 19, 2009 10:46 AM |

Even a team like Pitts. who is a smash mouth team, throw the ball more then they run it.

506 pass
460 run

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

You asserted, based on nothing but hate, that the 'Skins would never make a hire like Tomlin.

In fact, the last time they made a hire they interviewed several Tomlin like guys. The one they wanted most was Spagnolo, an assitant from New York. They also interviewed assistants from Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Baltimore. And the guy they hired, Zorn, was not even an assistant.

So keep on making up your fantasies. Don't let the facts get in your way.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 19, 2009 10:30 AM

I think you and I are crossing signals on the definition of "assistants".

When I mean coordinator, I say coordinator. Assistants are guys NOT coordinators.

The guys the Skins talked to were hot coordinators. That is DEFINITELY not an "outside the box" hire. That's what everyone does: retreads and hot coordinators. The Skins were no different until they gave Zorn a shot, and again--they don't get credit for that in my book because they brought him in to be the o-coordinator and got rejected by other candidates before they ever turned to Zorn for the Head job.

Nobody heard of Mike Tomlin when the Steelers interviewed him...only Vikings and Bucs die-hards and even some of those guys didn't know him. He's a guy who came in with no real track record and impressed in the interview. The Steelers passed over more qualified candidates to go with Tomlin and they knew what they were doing. There's no possible spin that makes me believe that Snyder knew what he was doing.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 19, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

"I want JZ to cut portis's workload back by at LEAST 100 carries."

I hear ya Bean, I agree that Portis needs to see his carry total drop - but not by "at least" 100...

That'll put 'em at about 230-250 carries...

Maybe by about 75 carries less than he avergaes.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 19, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

I believe in JAnsen.

And Heyer.

Why keep advocating the skins taking a T when we have waaay more pressing needs, such as LB and DE?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse


zjfr2

'....If we aren't going to add a legit guy to spell...'


I feel you here, bro, but we keep forgetting the 'midget' speed guys picked up last month.

Maybe one of them gets turned into Darren Sproles 5-7 times a game with the idea he creates space with speed and picks up the occasional large chunks of yards the offense presently lacks the ability to get.

Not having a 'field-flipper' with speed is a major thing hurting the skins offense.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

I believe in JAnsen.

And Heyer.

Why keep advocating the skins taking a T when we have waaay more pressing needs, such as LB and DE?

Posted by: 4thFloor |


We will take a LB one way or another in the draft. But RT was the weakest part of the weakest unit on the team last year. If Daniels come back, hell be better at DE than Jansen or Heyer would be at RT.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 19, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

red, 100 if not more. look at his Denver numbers, he was right in that vicinity as far as carries go....using him at the rate they're doing now, is to their own peril...especially when betts just rots away on the bench.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 19, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

"Thomas will be ok but I'm worried about Kelly's knee. He may not ever get there"

It's a shame because if it wasn't for the knee, Kelly would be a stud. Thomas scares me because he was just a 1-hit wonder in college. Those pass-interference penalties looked like a guy who had no idea what he was doing. Hopefully both guys can stay healthy and improve. The offense depends on them opening things up for our playmakers.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

CP carried the ball alot in 2008 because JZ was milking leads in the 4th (no matter how small they were).

Chart Portis' carries by QTR.

Before JZ, Portis got alot of carries because Gibbs 2.0 wanted to control TOP.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Bean - Betts doesn't get more carries because when he starts getting fed the ball, he tends to fumble. Then it's back to CP26 to carry the rock.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

hmm...maybe the Iggles were wise to let Buckhalter go to Denver. Who would have thought a drug dealer couldn't keep his mouth shut?? Wonder if any other names are gonna come out? Should be fun to watch!

Posted by: will_ga | March 19, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

LAST CHANCE

RI MArch Madness Bracket Challenge:

http://games.espn.go.com/tcmen/frontpage

Group:

RI Hamsters

Password:

ST21

(CAPS Sensitive)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

4th - I think tackle is a greater need but not blatantly obvious over LB/DE. I am a little torn how to go but don't want to see always running left or only being able to throw lame ass 6 yard passes all day because of RT. I have serious doubts about Jansen doing the job and middling doubts about Heyer. Missing that 2nd rounder due to the Taylor deal is absolutely killing us.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 19, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

The other paper is reporting that the Skins cut LB Matt Sinclair. I thought Sinclair was off to to a great start last year (before he got hurt). Oh well, root for the jersey, not for the guy wearing it. Still, its not like there are ton of LBs on the team, or at least, free agents that are familiar with the Skins defense. Hence, F Vinny.

Posted by: dcsween | March 19, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

4th,

When does the tournament officially begin?

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

"Missing that 2nd rounder due to the Taylor deal is absolutely killing us."

No kidding.

13 - Draft Smith, Oher, Orakpo, Maybin or Jackson

2nd round - Clint Stintim, Mack, Unger or Loadholt

Call it a day

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

All I am saying is if it takes 2 years to fully recover, I am willing to see what this year brings for him being actually 2 years removed from the injury.

UM OLineman (Really all Big 10 OLineman) are something special so I am willing to live with Heyer/Jansen, if he is doing better physically. And I see Heyer advancing with one more year under his belt...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

"When does the tournament officially begin?"

12:30 I believe

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

scratch that...LSU/Butler tip off at 12:20

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Thanks,

Yoder

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

prepare thyselves for beepage...and hoopage!

Posted by: CindyBoren | March 19, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

To back up my hypothesis I present to you...

Walt Harris

We signed him after he had major knee surgery. It took him a full 2 years to recover. He performed poorly those 2 years with us and we cut him.

The very next year, he beasted out with something like 10 INTs...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

No problem...I'm trying to get espn360 up at work so I can watch. Best time of the year, outside of opening weekend for the NFL.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I thought it was on CBS sport's webpage?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 19, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

prepare thyselves for beepage...and hoopage!

Posted by: CindyBoren | March 19, 2009 11:25 AM |

Cindy I hope it's something about the WR's being at the park.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 19, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"I thought it was on CBS sport's webpage?"

You are correct sir...I was still in conference tournament mode. I hate CBS with a passion for having the rights to all these games.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Only 17 in on the RI Hamsters pool. What's up with that?

Posted by: bangkokben | March 19, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

4thfloor

'...believe in JAnsen....and Heyer...'

It think the front office sees things the way you do.

That means Heyer starts and Jansen backs up.

That means Orakpo, Maualga, Matthews, Maybin, Curry, or--shock of all shocks--Jenkins gets drafted at 13.

So what's the third round pick?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

"They would eat that entire contract in salary cap hit this year if he is traded."
-Flounder

"I've been thinking this all along.....Pioli made the trade because he wants Cassell...so he would just relinquish Cassell to McDaniels?"
-Lisa


Trivia question, why hasn't Matt Cassel signed a new, long-term contract with the Chiefs yet? Seems so curious the Chiefs would give up a 2nd round draft selection just to get a one-year wonder at a one-year contract at a $14 million salary.

The franchise tag salary is not unlike the salary for Jason Taylor last season; all salary, no bonus. In layman's terms, his contract costs zero against the cap to trade or release.

I've theorized this as soon as the Chiefs trade occurred, but Pioli is going to end up turning his 2nd round draft pick into a 1st rounder and Mike Vrabel. They won't sign Cassel long-term until they know for sure the trade talks are essentially dead. And they are far from dead right now.

Wheelin and dealin. That's what Pioli's doing. Cassel will struggle in Kanasas City. He took an 18-0 team and turned them into 11-5, he's not going to take a 2-14 team and turn them into some sort of contender.

Posted by: psps23 | March 19, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Moe is on record as a supporter of the notion that Devin Thomas should be put in the position to beat out Randle El for the 'Z' receiver slot--not that he's better, but playing time cures a lot of ills for young guys and he is a high pick..

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 19, 2009 8:41 AM |

I concur! Let Devin sink or swim. Maybe it's my incurable optimism but I think the kid can play.

Posted by: buke | March 19, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 19, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

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