Initial Personnel Ratings Completed

With the Redskins completing their first set of personnel meetings before the Senior Bowl, Jason "The Mayor" Reid and I spoke to several people involved in the process - it includes Vinny Cerrato, all of his scouts and assistants and the entire coaching staff - to get a handle on what went on.

These were preliminary meetings to evaluate the current personnel, and no major decisions have been made. But everyone got a feel for the direction in which things seem to be headed and issues on both sides of the line were a constant topic of discussion.

The next wave of meetings will begin next week, and that's when things will start to heat up. Coaches are currently reviewing film and internal scouting reports on possible free agents. The next set of meetings will compare those players to those who are here now as the team prepares to make cuts. With free agency beginning Feb. 27, the team will lay the foundation for offseason moves during meetings with agents at the scouting combine in mid-February.

Several people told us that the offensive line was the greatest area of concern during the first series of meetings. Offensive line Coach Joe Bugel, criticized privately by some in the organization for being too loyal to veterans in the past, was brutally honest during the line review, sources said, particularly about how the line fell apart in the second half of the season.

There was a consensus among those in attendance that the team needs to upgrade at both guard spots and right tackle, though most sources doubted there will any kind of substantial free-agent budget to do that, and figure most of the present cast will be back.

Cerrato was looking for reasons for the team's 2-6 finish, which some coaches at first thought was a joke given personnel issues and the continuing age and injury problems of the line. Rarely could the entire line practice together save for some lighter Friday sessions and the players' technique and chemistry suffered. Veteran football coaches know the importance of having a line on the practice field as a unit. With most of this bunch coming off surgery again, that issue is unlikely to go away if they keep the group together.

Third-round pick Chad Rinehart is not seen as a capable player at this point, according to numerous sources involved in the meeting, and is not projected as being anywhere close to able to replace Pete Kendall or Randy Thomas at guard. Many coaches, including Bugel, worry about his confidence and ability, sources said. He is not being counted on to produce much in 2009, and if he did it would be a surprising development. Similarly, Stephon Heyer is not viewed as a starter; he's okay for depth purposes but with Jon Jansen no longer deemed a starter, either, they need to do something at right tackle (I still expect them to draft a tackle with their first pick).

Kendall could not practice on Wednesdays all season because of his arthritic knees and, in addition, is in his mid-30s. Given the team's cap predicament, its needs and the internal expectation that they will not be big spenders, sources said they expect the team to try to re-sign Kendall on the cheap. Thomas's health and decreasing athleticism are a big issue as well, but, like Jansen, his contract makes it more expensive to cut him than to keep him, so he will be back. Look for the team to find a "value" guard in free agency to replace Jason Fabini and push for a starting job. Beyond that, I'm not sure they do a whole lot here.

As for the rest of the offense, sources involved in these meetings do not expect the Skins to offer QB Jason Campbell any sort of extension (his deal is up after the 2009 season). The team knows it needs to make major leaps in terms of WR production, but after drafting so many pass catchers a year ago, they have made their bed here. Maybe they add a Bobby Engram-type in free agency if the price is right. There remains a strong sense from the coaches that they need to add a "home-run hitter" to the running back mix - someone like a Sproles who is explosive in space and makes safeties miss - but again, with all of the other roster problems, that's considered a luxury. Maybe they can find a young third-down/change-of-pace back late in the draft.

The defensive line is a problem, too. Cornelius Griffin will not be a cap casualty, according to a source, but the team knows it needs a younger anchor to provide more push inside, which defensive coordinator Greg Blache believes would make it easier to get pressure on the perimeter. Finding help at tackle will be a priority, and the defensive coaches would love to find a playmaker at outside linebacker. Sources said it is very unlikely that Marcus Washington will return, with both sides seemingly ready for a change.

As for ends, there was some discussion about Jason Taylor possibly adding some pass rush as more of a linebacker, and there was talk about keeping him. However, his $8.5 million salary is very steep and he will be approached about coming back at a lesser salary, according to a source. That's quite unlikely to go down, though. Several of Taylor's teammates and others who know him well say they do not expect him to accept a reduced rate. In that case he'd rather be a free agent, they say, able to sign where he likes, preferring a system with less rigid responsibilities. He's a better fit in a 3-4 scheme and would rather play in a warmer area, they say. Some believe he would even go back to Miami at a discount, if Bill Parcells would take him, to finish his career there. Regardless, coming back here for half his salary seems unrealistic at this point.

The Skins know they need to add youth and power at end, but, again, are handcuffed by having only four draft picks. Lacking a second-round pick, if they don't take a DE in the first round I'd look for them to try to target one in the third round.

In the secondary, re-signing DeAngelo Hall to long-term deal remains a big priority (it could end up being the only big-time deal they do this offseason). Those negotiations will get a kick-start at the combine. That will be a major domino, with the ability to re-sign Hall affecting whether they keep Shawn Springs and push to deal Carlos Rogers. One source said he expects the Skins to try to keep Springs at a more cap-friendly deal, but if that includes a paycut of any sort I would not expect Springs to accept it.

The meeting also touched on the need for improvement at kicker and punter, but, according to sources, price will be a huge factor. Look for the Skins to bring in young, cheap kickers and punters to compete with Shaun Suisham and Ryan Plackemeier. There won't be any Adam Vinatieri-type deals (though with the annual issues at both these positions and the limitations of this offense, finding someone of that ilk would be in order).

Maybe there will be a change in thinking when the Skins begin discussing outside free agents. Maybe the wallet opens up. But given that the Skins won't have the cap space that most teams will, finding cheap potential starters at a few positions appears to be the way they will proceed. If a Suggs or Haynesworth or Gross ends up here, several coaches and members of the football operations staff would be surprised. Looks like they will try to patch it together again.

Things will become more clear in February.

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 27, 2009; 10:49 AM ET
Categories:  Jason La Canfora Share This:  E-Mail | Technorati | Del.icio.us | Digg | Stumble Previous: Redskins Lay Off More Workers
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Comments

Hmm, so Griff is staying, they want to keep Taylor and kendall, and Jansen and Thomas are obviously back.

Boy, sounds like another year of great 8-8 football.

Oh, and I told everyone that Heyer sucks.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 27, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Red/psp,

C'mon. You guys know why our recruiting sucks. It is because Gary is too busy riding around town in his convertible w/ his 27-year old girlfried to get his hands dirty in the recruiting.

He's a heck of a coach, but he delegates the recruiting aspect of the program to his assistants, so if you are a blue-chip prospect and you have JT III show up in your living room telling you how much you are going to play, then the next day Mr. Junior Assistant Schlobotnik from UM show up; who are you going with??

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

LURIE TAKES ISSUE WITH CLOSED ROOF
Posted by Sheil Kapadia on January 25, 2009, 8:59 p.m.
We pointed out in this morning’s One-Liners that Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie said he needed Ambien to sleep after last week’s loss to the Cardinals in the NFC championship.

Later in the Q&A with Bob Brookover of The Philadelphia Inquirer, Lurie took issue with the home team getting to decide whether the roof is open or closed in the playoffs. It’s an issue Lurie says he will bring up during the owners meetings.

“I tried to bring it up before the game and I was told when we approved these stadiums . . . that the league does not take control of the dome opened-and-closed issue,” Lurie said. “My memory was wrong. I thought when we approved [Houston and Arizona] that the league takes over a playoff situation. I think it will come up and not just by me. The league should control this.”

At Kurt Warner’s urging, the Cardinals kept the roof closed during their 32-25 win.

------------------

Discuss

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

wait TA went to NC State

so nothing good has ever come out of Maryland sports-wise!


ouch!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Right...Which makes all those Duke scalps Gary has collected over the years all the more embarassing for Coach K.

Which also explains why he went the donkey-route and refused to play the walk-ons at the end of the blow-out.

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

"Several people told us that the offensive line was the greatest area of concern during the first series of meetings."

It's nice to know that they see this too.

The rest of the post makes me want to eat the working end of a pistol.

But I know I have to assume that JLA is putting the worst/darkest twist on everything that he can.

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

No they talk about trading Rogers. I am glad that you are finally leaving that foolishness alone.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 27, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

As to roofs being open or closed - When the Astros played in the World Series, they were told, by MLB that they could not close the roof. At Minute Maid, when the roof is closed and the crowd is wild, you cannot hear yourself think - it is crazy. I thought it sucked that MLB could control how we managed our field at the time, and still do.

If they are going to let you build a domed stadium, why should the league be able to take control over how you manage that stadium, whether for a regular game, or for the playoffs?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | January 27, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

If that is the case, that they are going to bring all these guys back then this team is going to suck next year.

Go young cut every big contract that frees up cap space, otherwise the team will be the same joke it has been the last 19 years.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 27, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

It seems so bleak. I say scrap all you can, add a few value guys, bite the bullet and go 7-9 or worse, and begin by building through the draft and value added free agents.

Between Spurrier, Gibbs, and horrible deals this team is in bad shape. Lets not forget the cance Clinton Portis will become next year after another rough year.

Posted by: Devo2 | January 27, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

If they are going to let you build a domed stadium, why should the league be able to take control over how you manage that stadium, whether for a regular game, or for the playoffs?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | January 27, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Agreed. Isn't that part of the whole "home-feild advantage" idea?

Jeff Lurie's just ticked off that his precious franchise is 1(B) right behind Buffalo Bills as "All-Time Greatest Most Talented Perennial NFL LOSERS"

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

regarding UMD -

It really is so sad. You would have thought consecutive final fours and a national championship would be enough ammunition get some decent prospects.

I don't think Gary has caught up with the times. Back in the '90s and early 2000's he could get away with having lesser talents and developing them over time. Now with the NBA rule change forcing high school players to play college, college ball is dominated by blue-chip freshmen and sophomore prospects. He can't go after the Juan Dixon types anymore. It's gotta be Carmelo, or Oden, or Durant, or Griffin, etc.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"Third-round pick Chad Rinehart is not seen as a capable player at this point, according to numerous sources involved in the meeting, and is not projected as being anywhere close to able to replace Pete Kendall or Randy Thomas at guard"

I'd love to know what this is based on. If you're worried about his confidence, why not give him some playing time, when the season was out of reach?? This doesn't make sense. His playing ability seemed ok in the pre-season, but now, he can't play? Sorry....I don't buy it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

It sounds like they're not holding out much hope for a winning season next year. Instead of patching it together, I think it's time to blow this thing up. Dump as much as you can this offseason and start rebuilding. Don't try to feed the fan base anymore of this 'we're close' BS.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 27, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if I can trust this post.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Don't try to feed the fan base anymore of this 'we're close' BS.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 27, 2009 11:20 AM

With the cap space stuff, hopefully they don't have to start feeding us "we're closed."

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

This was a depressing post. So basically the coaches want to change just about everything but can't because of bad contracts....super

Posted by: HustlerofCulture | January 27, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

"Looks like they'll try to patch it together again". Wow, that sure sounds depressing. I hope things somehow change but if the oline is going to consist of the same people as 08, the expectations of 09 can only be about the same as 08 or worse. JC better eat his wheaties because he's going to get battered back there, CP is going to be done by mid-season. The fact that CRhinehart is "not seen as a capable player" is really disturbing, why was he drafted then? This is another example of scouting/talent evaluation ineptitude and incompetence. Also why draft a WR(MKelly) with chronic knee issues that everyone else pretty left alone? Even if he is able to master the playbook and learn where to line up and what routes to run, will he ever be consistently healthy to play and make an impact from week to week? This team needs a serious upgrade in the scouting and talent evaluation dept as much as it needs upgrading on both lines and the other positions. Please, Dan Snyder hire a competent GM, you at least owe that to the fans, we deserve better.

Posted by: 72Redskins | January 27, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Oh, and I told everyone that Heyer sucks.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 27, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Having this front office say they don't see you as a starter doesn't count for much. Its probably a compliment. See Ryan Clark/Adam Arch.

Posted by: LiberalMike | January 27, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

So RIGHT NOW, they hold no hope on Rhino starting. Today. Again, this makes no sense. If he's not strong enought, then he's got 8 months in the weight room, if his technique stinks, then he's got 8 months to get coached up on technique....instead its, he can't play, and wont be ready in 09. I don't buy it.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

What happens to your cap situation if a player goes on injured reserve?

If you get a discount, is our best hope that all these expensive, declining vets get injured and we hit it BIG with replacement players? [C'mooooooooon, Marocco!]

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Why the hell did we take him in the 3rd round then, if he wasn't even close to being a BACKUP in the NFL?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 27, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

I think it's time to blow this thing up. Dump as much as you can this offseason and start rebuilding. Don't try to feed the fan base anymore of this 'we're close' BS.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 27, 2009 11:20 AM

Not unil the uncapped year of 2010......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Having this front office say they don't see you as a starter doesn't count for much. Its probably a compliment. See Ryan Clark/Adam Arch.

Posted by: LiberalMike | January 27, 2009 11:26 AM

Mike, it wasn't the front office. It was the coaches -- specifically Joe Bugel. If you don't trust JB, take it up with Chris Larry.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

So RIGHT NOW, they hold no hope on Rhino starting. Today. Again, this makes no sense. If he's not strong enought, then he's got 8 months in the weight room, if his technique stinks, then he's got 8 months to get coached up on technique....instead its, he can't play, and wont be ready in 09. I don't buy it.

Posted by: BeantownGreg


-----

Can't you say that about any player on the roster? Or at least any semi-young player?

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Excellent post, Jasno. It sounds like the coaches are even more concerned by the quality of the players than the regulars on the blog. It sounds like 6-10 next year. If that.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Having this front office say they don't see you as a starter doesn't count for much. Its probably a compliment. See Ryan Clark/Adam Arch.

Posted by: LiberalMike | January 27, 2009 11:26 AM |

Clark is good but Arch sucked here and he sucks now, hell he even sucked before he got here.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 27, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Somebody once told me that genius is having a brilliant sense of the obvious. Obviously, we now have a bunch of geniuses evaluating the team.

Posted by: neilbourjaily | January 27, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

4th I too thought the NFL controlled the open vs closed dome. Even if they did though I would plop down 100 that they would close it.

I am also shocked at keeping Griff. I mean the guy was a good player but he needs to be spelled more and more every year.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Why the hell did we take him in the 3rd round then, if he wasn't even close to being a BACKUP in the NFL?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 27, 2009 11:28 AM

At any position, the draft is a crap shoot ... even when you go for a guy from a power house like Northern Iowa.

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Wow, how depressing is this...

Looks like Rhinehart can be added to the list of probable busts for last year's draft. Why not cut Griff, though? I like him, but he's slow and past his prime and will save us like 8 mill in cap space to go after some younger talent.

Posted by: DCinSD | January 27, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

wow. That doesn't sound very good. Seems like they're gonna probably suck worse than last year, and end up losing Campbell, either to injury or because he's gonna look like hammered sh1t between running for his life and getting blindsided.

Who's in Charge over there, anyway? They should be let go, or laid off, or whatever the current phrase is.

The Redskins haven't got a chance, if this report is correct. Even 8 and 8 is gonna be impossible. Half the O Line will be injured and the ones who don't STINK will be too old to play. This is not good news.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | January 27, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

"Don't try to feed the fan base anymore of this 'we're close' BS.

Posted by: Original_etrod"

I don't think anyone is saying "we're close."

I think they're saying we're a ways off, but due to our genius front office we only have 4 draft picks, and our most cuttable veterans in terms of efficacy just happen to be the most uncuttable in terms of the salary cap.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

This was a depressing post. So basically the coaches want to change just about everything but can't because of bad contracts....super

Posted by: HustlerofCulture | January 27, 2009 11:25 AM

It was done on purpose.

This week's lesson to not listen to the propaganda:

The Cardinals.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if I can trust this post ...

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 11:23 AM

I trust that the information in the thread was repeated accurately, but I agree that there is no reason to trust that the information delivered was accurate in the first place. As of the end of the 4th quarter in Week 17, the season of disinformation began. Since when does Vinny speak candidly with WaPo or any other media outlet?

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Griffin; I said it before, but my impression is that the entire defensive scheme is predicated on 3 positions -- Free Safety, MLB (the QB of the defense), and DT.

Until Griffin can be adequately replaced, he cannot be cut without seeing a significant dip in defensive production. Washington, Taylor, and Springs will all be gone before Griffin.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

I don't trust any of it. CRhine, can't play, I'd need to see him in an actual REAL, LIVE, NFL REGULAR SEASON game before I came to this conclusion.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

DaFunBunch had a nice post about the reverse psychology of expectations. So this post has me pumped!!!!

"Probable busts" I like that, a new distinction.

If Buges says he can't play, he can't play. Bugel>Vinny.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse


regarding UMD -

It really is so sad. You would have thought consecutive final fours and a national championship would be enough ammunition get some decent prospects.

I don't think Gary has caught up with the times. Back in the '90s and early 2000's he could get away with having lesser talents and developing them over time. Now with the NBA rule change forcing high school players to play college, college ball is dominated by blue-chip freshmen and sophomore prospects. He can't go after the Juan Dixon types anymore. It's gotta be Carmelo, or Oden, or Durant, or Griffin, etc.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Well, the FInal Fours did get Gary some great prospects. Mike Jones was the No.2 shooting guard in the nation out of high-school (behind only LeBron James!). Caner-Medley was highly rated and so was Gilchrist.

He had talent assembled, he just couldn't put it together.

Gary has ALWAYS done his best coaching from an "underdog" position. Medium-talented/overlooked guys who get hot at the right time and put it together as a team.

I think the problem is not that Gary has "lost it", it is just that the landscape of the ACC/college b-ball has changed around him.

The recruiting thing is killing him, though. He does not get the blue-chips b/c he's not personally involved in the recruiting like other HCs.

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

If Buges says he can't play, he can't play. Bugel>Vinny.


Maybe this is true 10 years ago, but not so sure this is the case now. Buges thought that Jansen played well enought not to replace him after Heyer was healthy...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I know Lisa is not going to like this but I hope they do let Springs walk.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 27, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Maybe this is true 10 years ago, but not so sure this is the case now. Buges thought that Jansen played well enought not to replace him after Heyer was healthy...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse


That may say more about Heyer than Jansen.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 27, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

When J Ca Ca leaves his axe at home and solely reports on the news about the team, he produces top shelf work.

Posted by: IHateJLC | January 27, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

The recruiting thing is killing him, though. He does not get the blue-chips b/c he's not personally involved in the recruiting like other HCs.

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Though in his defense, he did have Rudy Gay lined up until Jim Calhoun swooped in and seems like he did something realllllly sketchy to snatch him up to UConn in the 11th hour...

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I don't trust any of it. CRhine, can't play, I'd need to see him in an actual REAL, LIVE, NFL REGULAR SEASON game before I came to this conclusion.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 11:38 AM

Just askin' here, Bean, but how come you have this LOGICAL sentiment for Rhinehart, but didn't for Marcus Mason.

They're both unproven, but you give Rhinehart the benefit of the doubt, why?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

We need to bring in that ex-hog who is a line coach for JMU or whatever to work under Buggs for a year and take his place next off season.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Buges>beantown greg

No offense, I am sticking with Bugel.

If I had time Greg I love to give you one of your stock arguing points in full glory. Here is the Readers Digest Condensed Book version

"Are you in practice, are you in meetings, did you even watch all 16 games this season. If not your just guessing"

Fish in barrel.....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

p1funk -

Yea, I was going to say he did get Mike Jones, although he turned out to be a major bust in terms of hype.

Caner-Medley was the highest rated player ever to come out of Maine -- although I have a feeling that doesn't mean much on the national landscape.

"Gary has ALWAYS done his best coaching from an "underdog" position. Medium-talented/overlooked guys who get hot at the right time and put it together as a team.

I think the problem is not that Gary has "lost it", it is just that the landscape of the ACC/college b-ball has changed around him."

That's precisely what I mean. That's where his success always came from, but that time is long gone. Carmelo, Oden, and Derrick Rose have all carried their teams to at least the title game as freshmen. Kevin Love carried his team to the final 4. Even Coach K has struggled lately to live up to his standards because he's had the same long-term team philosophy Gary has had (only he's much better at it). Gary has got to get on that blue-chip recruiting spiel.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Who are these sources? I find it hard to believe that you would go from your offseason meeting and tell all to a reporter.
So the whole league can know your plan.

Posted by: sblische | January 27, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

god if this post is true im so dissapointed.... we just have a bunch of retards running our squad..yeah great idea, lets bring back our entire O and D lines..they cant be serious

Posted by: jeffco01 | January 27, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if I can trust this post ...

Posted by: 4thFloor

I trust it. It only confirms what we all saw on the field this past season.

The post means the team is hamstrung by bad contracts and and aging roster.

The post made me wonder at what point does anybody in the talent acquisition department lose his job for creating the mess JLC so accurately described.

It also suggests the only way out of the lack of talent hole the team is in is to take a season or two on the chin (who wants to go 3-13, folks?), let contracts shed naturally, and collect draft picks.

So expect the Skins to emerge out of this funk sometime around the time the 1st Obama '12 bumper stickers hit the mail.

Multiple losing Redskins seasons is about to become some change we all don't want to endure or believe in.

Baseball can't get here fast enough.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Red, Mason has failed here, he's failed in NY, and he's failed in Baltimore. He's had numerous chances to prove his worth, and in each, and every case, he's failed to do so. In fact all 32 teams think so much of him that he's been unemployed since what, November, and no one has thought to pick him up.

Rhinhardt has had ONE year. One Preseason, and suddenly he's no good?? Sorry, I don't buy it.

Seriously...I know it hurts and all, but you've gotta let Marcus go....You're the last one on the island....turn the lights out, and go home..

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"Obama 12: This time, it's personal."

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 27, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

True. These guys aren't really accomplished talent evaluators. Obviously.

They've screwed up from jump. The first move they made was cutting Brian Mitchell, who proceeded to score touchdowns as a punt returner and running back.

They just don't have the playing experience to see talent. They have to read about it, and that's why it always costs more and is full of hype, usually undeserved.

Look at Cooley and London Fletcher. Somebody saw talent despite the scouts flocking to guys like Kellen Winslow, Jr. or Michael Westbrook.

Santana Moss, we got lucky with, but there are guys out there who will not be mentioned because our "scouts" pick up the latest issue of Sports Illustrated to find out who's Hot and who's Not.

"Lets get a homerun hitter at RB" - Genius.

How about get a "Sack Master" on the D Line or a "Super Bowl MVP Quarter Back". Why not just upgrade the lines?

Drop the Dead Weight (and I like Griff, too) and get some young, hungry, less wealthy psychos in there. It CANT be that hard.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | January 27, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Buges>beantown greg

Maybe so, but BG saw that Jansen was DONE, and buges didn't, so you have that going for you.....so essentially by supporting buges, you're ok with him trotting out Jansen at RT next year, right?? Because I mean, buges is buges, and he's > than anyone right...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Gary has got to get on that blue-chip recruiting spiel.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I agree 100%, but I don't think it's going to happen. Gary's too old a dog to learn a new trick.

Debbie Yow would like to fire Gary, but he's sort of reached a "coach-for-life" stratosphere: pulled the program out of the dumpster, delivered its only Nat'l Title, etc. etc.

The best we can hope for is that some great slick assistant gets hired who has the recruiting touch like Dave Dickerson did, b/c the DC-Bmore area is STOCKED with talent (Carmelo, Rudy Gay, Beasley, Scotty Reynolds, Jeff Green,Durant, etc.).

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Agreed P1, I can't buy the fact that he "just lost it" either. Baseball players? Yeah, they can lose it just like that - never seen anything like it. But coaching, how do you just lose that?

psps, if the problem were that he couldn't get young blue chip players because they'll jump ship after one year, then shouldn't that been a problem when MD was good? Maybe no one wants to come to Maryland, it just isn't as appealing as Duke, UCLA, Kansas... wait, Kansas? I'd rather be in Maryland than Kansas any day.

Sadly I think the problem is Gary Williams, good coach/poor recruiter, but his time at Maryland has run its course.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

"Drop the Dead Weight (and I like Griff, too) and get some young, hungry, less wealthy psychos in there. It CANT be that hard.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice"

It is when it costs more to cut a player than to simply leave them on the roster.

BTW, I don't view Griffin as dead weight. He still adds to the team. Dead weight are players like Jon Jansen and Fred Smoot, neither of whom actually add anything positive to the product on the field, yet still cost boatloads of money.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Well, it looks like 2010 may be uncapped.

Either way, next year we can find replacements, and we do have to 'coach em up'

Players on that list

Alexander - DT
Wilson - LE
Heyer - RT
Geisinger - LG/C
Tryon - CB
Fincher - LOLB
Blades - MLB
Horton - FS !
Thomas - WR
Kelly - WR
Davis - TE

We need to get LL near the line to make plays.

We can add value FA's, we should have the cap space... but not adding one huge name to eat up most of that space will be the main 'accomplishment' if we can call it that. The more FA's brought in at various positions, the better chance at finding someone to succeed.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 27, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Folks who wonder about the internal Rhinehart 'being a 3rd round bust' assessment have to remember 2 things:

Most NFL teams film their practices on live hitting days and use the tape to grade players. Obviously, the internal a grading must render Rhino as a no go player: that's sad.

This is extremely depressing as last year's draft was stocked with several offensive and defensive linemen in positions of need, and the one guy the Skins take--in the 3rd round no less--is seen as a bust.

Can someone explain how Vinny Cerrato keeps his job?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

I hope this FO at least learns this, with the sad state that the team is in right now they can't afford to be bothered with "projects", players with health issues, behavior/maturity/sub-par intelligence/attitude issues, "tweeners", FA's on the downside of their careers. The FO needs to employ better investigating and evaluation of potential draft picks and FA's.

Posted by: 72Redskins | January 27, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"psps, if the problem were that he couldn't get young blue chip players because they'll jump ship after one year, then shouldn't that been a problem when MD was good?

Posted by: RedDMV"

Not really, IMO. When UMD was good, most of the truly great blue-chippers weren't going to college, just declaring for the draft. Therefore, the competition in the NCAA wasn't as tough, and Gary could get away with playing the underdog card, and building up a superior team of lesser talented players.

But now that the next Kobes and Garnetts and Amares and Lebrons are forced to play college, the teams that aren't able to snatch up equivalent talent are at an extreme disadvantage. I'm not arguing that he's not a poor recruiter, just that it may be by choice/philosophy rather than ability.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Red,

I def think guys would like to come to Maryland. Comcast Center is a BOMB facility and mens-hoops is THE thing at UM. Gary is one of a handful of active coaches with a nat'l title.

But the recruiting thing is key. The blue-chips NEED to have the HC whispering sweet-nothings into their ears, telling them how the team will be built around them, telling them how they will play TONS of minutes from the get-go; the blue-chips want to know that they have the talent to go to the NBA and the college coach is the man who can give them the minutes to make that jump.

Gary does none of that...

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I don't care what we do. lets make sure to avoid classless athletes though.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Fine, keep Griffin... Whatever. They do some stupid stuff, though. Like drafting a punter. Oh, and another TE. What were they THINKING? Then, they CUT our punter, force the drafted one onto the field and finally cut HIM.

That was a waste of time, energy, draft picks, money, coaching...

Why did we need another Tight End? Yoder and Cooley not good enough? It makes no sense. Tight Ends are EVERYWHERE. Why are you drafting one? I would have preferred them draft ALL Wideouts - maybe THEN one, just ONE, would have panned out.

I feel like I'm taking Crazy Pills!

HELLO, REDSKIN FRONT OFFICE:

New Idea - - Address the NEEDS. O Line. D Line. Look for DEALS.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | January 27, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Bean, just asking, that's all.

Mason has been long gone from my "if only..." list.

Now I've moved Ryan Clark back into to my fave 5.

The hits he put on Welker and McGahee were some of the worst I've ever seen, especially Welker - I don't think Welker returned to the game after that and I think that knock may have come in the first half. If you look at videos from youtube (can't post any - work filter) you can see Polamalu crossing his chest after the hit.

He thought Welker may have been seriously hurt or worse.

Question for RI: What is the worst hit you witnessed in the NFL this season?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Like most of JLCs stuff, I don't believe most of it. Unless it involves Rock Cartwright, you'll never get him to utter anything positive about the Skins. So according to his sources, Chad Reinhart is the second coming of Mo Elewonibi (old school test) and will be on the Justin Tryon fast track out of the league. We will be active in free agency this year for O-line help.

The 2008 draft will be Vinny's legacy unless a miracle occurs. I would love to have Bruce Allen return.

By the way, what ever happened to JLC's evaluation of the coaching staff?

Posted by: dcwun | January 27, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Big Mo!


Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

To Mista Moe: Vinny C keeps his job because he is a close personal friend of Dan Snyder and is a "yes" man. How anyone in this FO can keep Shawn Springs around for another season is beyond me, he couldn't stay healthy in 07, or 08, so what the hell is going to keep him healthy on 09? Even Ray Charles can see his body cannot withstand the rigors of NFL football anymore.Yes he's a good guy and does stuff in the community but dam, the guy's body is done, he is no DARRELL GREEN!! So considering this, to try and trade CRogers would be insane! Out of 32 teams in the NFL this FO has to be one of the most inept and dysfunctional.

Posted by: 72Redskins | January 27, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Nice chrislarry.....We all know how that ended.

Posted by: dcwun | January 27, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Just a quick question... can anyone point to something that was completely wrong or a complete rumor that JLC has told?

It seems like most of what he says is on point, but everyone says they dont believe him.

JR3 shares the same view of the front office as JLC, so where does he go wrong?

Just trying to think of one, he was right about us going after ocho cinco, he thought it was an ok move to get JT (but who didnt really, and who thought he would suck). He questioned 3 pass catchers, a punter in the draft...

Just seems like no one wants to admit we are as bassackwards as 'outsiders' think we are.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 27, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Wake me up when Cerrato is GONE!

Posted by: iamdawalrus | January 27, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

"Right...Which makes all those Duke scalps Gary has collected over the years all the more embarassing for Coach K.

Which also explains why he went the donkey-route and refused to play the walk-ons at the end of the blow-out.

Posted by: p1funk "

Awww, poor Marrywin got blown out and they think it was unfair! Maybe Coach K should issue a public apology like that HS coach in Texas who beat the mentally challenged team 100-0?

And how 'bout stop making stuff up? I looked at the stats and 13 of Duke's 14 players played in that game, 12 of them 9 minutes or more.

Go cry a river, yall suck!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

"Cerrato was looking for reasons for the team's 2-6 finish, which some coaches at first thought was a joke given personnel issues and the continuing age and injury problems of the line. "

Duh! If its not plainly obvious to Vinny why we stunk it up the last half of the season, then he really is as dumb as we all think he is.

Sounds like he was looking for a scapegoat other than his sorry personnel decisions. Lets hope this means that pasta-boy is on the hot seat with Danny.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 27, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Well, this news actually makes a thing or two click into place.
As someone mentioned above, they were getting to see Rinehart on Wednesdays (you thought it was Prince Spaghetti day, but it was Pete Kendall ligament day!), and what they saw means that he's got a long way to go... long enough that seeing him play in SF (next to Heyer, rather than Samuels, who could do a better job of helping the boy) would've been ... harrowing (?).
So -- do they get rid of him, or keep him around with the expectation that he'll improve.
More importantly, there are about 10 other OL justaguys on the roster right now -- anything emerging from that cesspool of marginal talent?

Posted by: daggar | January 27, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I'm with 4th. I don't trust some of this stuff because it reads like a rehash of what JLa has been feeding us has his opinion.

Not offering Campbell an extension. Wow. What was the explanation for this?

They should not extend Springs for a friendlier cap number for next year. Let him walk. It's better to give up guy a year too soon than be forced to keep him a year too long because of cap considerations. Giving Jansen that extension was the worst possible move. Don't repeat it.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Baseball can't get here fast enough.


Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 11:51 AM

I hope your not talking Washington Ex.. I mean, Nationals baseball.

I'd rather watch the 'skins preseason with guys of the likes of Marcus Mason, than to watch the Nats bullpen come in and BLOW, BLEW, and BLOW'd another game.

What are they smoking? Who ever owns the Nationals are cheapskate bastards - GIVE RYAN ZIMMERMAN his paper already. Are they trying to piss him off by sending his case to an arbitrator.

Are they getting Manny or what, they want to sell tickets? Manny will sell tickets.

Left field seats, please.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

This cap BS has to stop. The Skins will have plenty of space available for free agents and draft picks after releasing aging players and reworking existing contracts. They are currently 5 million over the cap, however they could free up 22 million just by cutting Taylor, Washington, Springs, Daniels, Thrash, and Plackemier. Plus more 10-20 million more by reworking the contracts of Samuels, Portis, Moss, Carter, Thomas, and Landry.

That would be more than enough money to sign 2-3 premiere free agents, mid-level/undrafted free agents, and all draft picks. Kickers and punters don't cost that much to sign (vet min to 1 mill/yr); so I have no doubt the Skins will address those areas with free agents (plus there is no Vinateri quality kicker available this year.)

Posted by: siris | January 27, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

I guess when JLC said that Moss wouldn't start on any team in the division (not sure of the excat words) or when he had Portis as the worst RB in the division or when his man love for Rock Cartwright distorts the truth about the need to upgrade our KR or......well, you should get it by now. He's far too critical of the players (yes some deserve it) and doesn't hold the coaching staff accountable for, what I believe, a horrible coaching season.

Posted by: dcwun | January 27, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

"Plus more 10-20 million more by reworking the contracts of Samuels, Portis, Moss, Carter, Thomas, and Landry"

No to all except perhap Landry.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Red, worst hit I saw this year was the one on Boldin vs Jets. Kurt Warner said it was so awful, he was wanted to retire on the spot. Gut wrenching stuff

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Go cry a river, yall suck!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 12:18 PM

Yeah and those Bulldogs are quite the world beaters in college basketball, or football for that matter.

Maryland basketball > Geogria basketball

And I'm not sure, but there isn't any "y'all's" up here, you doofus, unless one of the Terp players post on this blog.

"Y'all" in terms of team association = emotionally invested/b*tch mode = lameness = weakness

What a bottle of massengill you are, son.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Red, worst hit I saw this year was the one on Boldin vs Jets. Kurt Warner said it was so awful, he was wanted to retire on the spot. Gut wrenching stuff

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse"

I concur. Boldin is straight beast for coming back at top game a few weeks later. That hit was insane. In total blow out garbage time too...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I thought he said a number 1, but yes, i agree he is wrong about moss, and with help he can be dangerous.

For breaking long runs and being an impact player, i agree portis is number 4 out of 4 in our division. He eats up a lot of carries to get all of those yards he gets and didnt break one longer than 31 yards.

I love Rock as a kickoff guy, so i agree with him there.

But i guess my point was to what our coaching staff is thinking and what our FA moves are, draft moves etc...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 27, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Red, are students and alums not "y'alls"? With college, I think students and alums are allowed to be "emotionally invested."

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Skins have about 15 guys to turn over in the next 3 years, due to age alone.

Turning that many positions over is tough to begin with. But its even tougher because of cap issues, lack of picks in 2009, lack of development by the 2008 picks and a key question mark in Jason Campbell.

To me, the question is how they do this without the team dropping off a cliff. 8-8 in 2009 would be a near miracle, even with 4 games against the awful AFC West + the Lions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Zeebs...Name me one KR that's slower than Rock. He is no threat whatsoever! I would love to see Portis break longer runs but the numbers are the numbers and you can't deny his talent. His production to go along with him being the best blocking RB in the league makes him my choice.

Posted by: dcwun | January 27, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

So let me get this straight: due to horrendous cap management in the past, they can't do anything to fix their offensive line. And because they wasted their draft picks, they can't do much there either. Sounds like a plan.

The plan is: hope some of their overpriced players volunteer to give money back. Gee, that seems likely.

And then there's Campbell. After four years, they don't know if they want him. That's a disaster. If you're willing to let him play out his contract, you don't believe in him. Pure and simple. If that's the case, you need to find and groom his replacement.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | January 27, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

There is no way the Skins can go into next year with the same offensive line. They need a new starting RT and LG. They may have to replace RG Thomas if he doesn't come back from neck surgery. Plus they absolutely require better depth.

Posted by: siris | January 27, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

I don't want the Skins to be the Lions but if short term failure leads to long-term success, I'm for it. The team has been mediocre for what is approaching 20 years, a season or two more won't be that hard to get over.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Z's, forgot all about that Boldin hit. I was surprised he came back so quickly, but then I remembered that he wanted out of Arizona, so this is sort of contract year for him. Which makes me think...
---------------------------
Boldin is not a bad guy. But LIKE ALL NFL/NBA players, he's a prima donna, otherwise he wouldn't have pulled that stunt on the sidelines, but because Boldin is known around the league as a good guy, and comes off as likeable, he's gets a pass. Or maybe the fact that he's a 6-2, 230 WR with a little speed is what gets him the all-access pass...

Let that have been Clinton "Cancer" Portis... you Portis haters DISGUST me. Instead of being real with yourself and others about why you hate the guy, you come up with your lame excuses, blame him for ALL the problems they have - even the punting issues, and compare him to Riggns and Brown.

Just say: "I never liked the guy, even when he was in Denver and Miami for that matter, and I pissed my pants the minute I heard they gave up draft picks and traded Champ Bailey for him." - Andy Polin

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

We were 4th in KR avg. Only 13 teams had a KR for TD (we did not). We are only 1 of 7 teams that did not have a fumble on KR... so whos perception is wrong?

Posted by: Zeebs | January 27, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

I concur with zcezcest and chrislarRy. Biggest hit was on Boldin and his returning before, oh, about week 16 was beastly.
Meanwhile, Steinbog has a post on FormerCoach Joe flipping a racecar.

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 27, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The more I think about this, the less sense it makes. The WP and the Redskins relationship is probably beyond repairable. VC wont even take calls, or talke to Jla, and I'd be shocked if this didn't hold true for EVERY member of the scouting dept. But somehow after a meeting like this, someone comes out and spills the beans to the WP about everything they discussed?? That doesn't make sense to me.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

So, it looks like the coaching staff has essentially conceded that last year’s draft was a bust. A third round pick that can’t find his was on the field. Two second round picks that couldn’t beat out or even compete with the likes of Thrash and, a punter that was cut through mid season. Why is Vinny still the GM? I’ll give him credit for Horton in the 7th round but even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

Posted by: lwilli1025 | January 27, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Well Red, I always liked Portis and still do a little bit but his crap got on my nerves this past year so there ya go.


and what is the "real" reason people dislike him? I seem to remember you one day on here saying it had something to do with the color of his skin.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Red, are students and alums not "y'alls"? With college, I think students and alums are allowed to be "emotionally invested."

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 12:35 PM

lh, you can respond to any post you want, but I was directing this at TheTruth specifically because of his use of "y'all" in terms of sports. He'll use it when talking about UGA - which he never went to. He'll use it when talking about any pro team WHICH I KNOW he's never been a part of.

Of cousre if you are attending a school or alumni, but never played on the team of course you can have that association of "y'all".

But for TheTruth and TheTruth only: "Y'all" in terms of team association = emotionally invested/b*tch mode = lameness = weakness

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Greg;

JLA had direct comments from Vinny not too long ago. It seems as if the rift is less wide now.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 27, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Don't give him credit for Horton. He was placed in the Skins' lap by a former coach.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

OK, Snyder-lovers and Cerrato apologists, can we finally grade the 2008 draft?

Devin Thomas, 2nd -- D
Malcom Kelly, 2nd -- D
Fred Davis, 2nd -- D
Chad Rinehard, 3rd -- D
Justin Tryon, 4th -- C
Durant Brooks, 6th -- F-
Kareem Moore, 6th -- C
Colt Brennan, 6th -- C
Rob Jackson, 7th -- C
Chris Horton, 7th -- A

Overall, that's a D.

But little Danny will probably promote
Cerrato again for this crap.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | January 27, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

To wit;

Rock did most of the damage hisself

Kick Return Statistics
Player Returns Yds Yds/Ret Long TD

Rock Cartwright 51 1307 25.6 87 0

Mike Sellers 2 32 16.0 17 0

Santana Moss 1 26 26.0 26 0

James Thrash 1 17 17.0 17 0

TOTAL 55 1382 25.1 87 0

OPPONENTS TOTAL 55 1103 20.1 55 0

Posted by: Zeebs | January 27, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

I've told you guys all along that Cornelius Griffin was not going anywhere but everyone thought I was crazy.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 27, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

I LIKE Vinny looking at the 2-6 finish and asking what happened. The OL/injuries are obvious, but perhaps there is some 'less obvious' in there as well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 27, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

and what is the "real" reason people dislike him? I seem to remember you one day on here saying it had something to do with the color of his skin.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 12:48 PM

Again, my boy, I really, really want you to learn how to read, okay? Pay attention to the part in quotations, but don't pay attention to the name, he really didn't say that.

"Instead of being real with yourself and others about why you hate the guy, you come up with your lame excuses, blame him for ALL the problems they have - even the punting issues, and compare him to Riggns and Brown.

Just say: "I never liked the guy, even when he was in Denver and Miami for that matter, and I pissed my pants the minute I heard they gave up draft picks and traded Champ Bailey for him." - Andy Polin

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 12:42 PM"

So maybe now you understand the "real" reason. Stop trying to stir the pot, d-bag.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

When did this turn into the Uof M basketball post? Gary can still coach but you can't recruit sitting at home or wherever so Gary needs to get back out there because the perception by these bluechippers is that Gary is a screamer and closet nut job true or not Gary needs to give these kid's the warm and fuzzy about Md.basketball and about Gary and the facility, i mean the Comcast Center is the place to play in the area, period.

Posted by: dargregmag | January 27, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

My Dauphine, are you not allowed to hyperlink?

Posted by: daggar | January 27, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

And Eric Smith of the Jets delivered that hit on Boldin.

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 27, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Tryon gets a "C"? That's an inflated grade if I've ever seen one. He gets a D- in my book.

Horton should get an A+

Kelly should get an I (incomplete)

Can't really argue with the rest of the grades. Maybe D+'s for Davis and Thomas.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

not a snyder/cerrato apolgist, but would like to point out that the general school of thought is to grade a draft 3 years after it happens.

Diesel, help me understand the logic of giving Brennan an C, but Rhinehardt gets a D??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I would love for the days of Vinny to end. However, it would concern me more if Vinny was not asking the coaches why the team collapsed and instead relying on his own questionable judgment. If you want the people that work for/with you to feel respected, aren't you supposed to ask questions like that and give them the opportunity to share their perspectives?

I'm sure the coaches would have been much happier to have Vinny tell them why they sucked last year without asking for any feedback.

Posted by: amcg | January 27, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

BG, I don't know if you saw it but last week one of the sports editors said that JReid is the beat reporter and that JLa is an amalgamation of things Skins related at TWP. If you read the post carefully, JLa doesn't say that Vinny or anyone in particular told "him" anythinng. He says he and Reid talked to people and those people told "us." I don't doubt that JLa has sources in the building who are willing to talk to him because sources talk for any number of reasons, including backstabbing their boss.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

"

The more I think about this, the less sense it makes. The WP and the Redskins relationship is probably beyond repairable. VC wont even take calls, or talke to Jla, and I'd be shocked if this didn't hold true for EVERY member of the scouting dept. But somehow after a meeting like this, someone comes out and spills the beans to the WP about everything they discussed?? That doesn't make sense to me.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse "

Care to back your assertions here up with any of the evidence/links you are always want? Cindy has repeatedly told us/you how it works on their end. But are you saying she is lying?

I tend to agree with sweeny/4th giant grains of salt are needed due to NFL game playing (fully warrented) and this is a version of the truth (and after all they are just versions...)

Greg, your my boy, but you hang yourself up to dry sometimes by doing exactly what you scream about when others so it...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Diesel, help me understand the logic of giving Brennan an C, but Rhinehardt gets a D??

Posted by: BeantownGreg

----

Rinehart is a 3rd rounder. Brennan was a 6th rounder. Both had pretty much the same impact on the team.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Draft grades:

Devin Thomas, 2nd -- Inc
Malcom Kelly, 2nd -- Inc
Fred Davis, 2nd -- Inc
Chad Rinehard, 3rd -- Inc
Justin Tryon, 4th -- Inc
Durant Brooks, 6th -- F
Kareem Moore, 6th -- C
Colt Brennan, 6th -- Inc
Rob Jackson, 7th -- Inc
Chris Horton, 7th -- A

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Funny twitter update I got from someone at media day (sorry cindy not you.)

"SuperBowl: Steelers safety Ryan Clark, when asked a question by Giants LB Antonio Pierce: "They must let anybody in here today." #superbowl 3 minutes ago from web"

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

OK, Snyder-lovers and Cerrato apologists, can we finally grade the 2008 draft?

Devin Thomas, 2nd -- D
Malcom Kelly, 2nd -- D
Fred Davis, 2nd -- D
Chad Rinehard, 3rd -- D
Justin Tryon, 4th -- C
Durant Brooks, 6th -- F-
Kareem Moore, 6th -- C
Colt Brennan, 6th -- C
Rob Jackson, 7th -- C
Chris Horton, 7th -- A

Overall, that's a D.

But little Danny will probably promote
Cerrato again for this crap.


Posted by: diesel_skins_ | January 27, 2009 12:52 PM

I got big issues with your grading scale, diese.

Horton is a good rookie. I like his style and I'll think he'll be a good DB in the NFL.

But you'll give his overall performance an 'A'? I think Hoton is a solid 'C'.

Everyone else ranges from the D+ range to F. With Kareem Moore and Devin Thomas as the only recipients of the D+ - everyone else gets D's, except Brooks whom deserves an F. Brennan honestly should receive an 'I' - we've seen nothing from him.

How can you give Brennan, Jackson, Tryon all 'C', when Kelly, Thomas, and Davis all saw more time on the field. True, NONE of them except Horton was productive, but to give Jackson, Brennan, and Tryon higher grades I think is straight erroneous.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

To me, the question is how they do this without the team dropping off a cliff. 8-8 in 2009 would be a near miracle, even with 4 games against the awful AFC West + the Lions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 12:36 PM |

Who cares about going 8-8, let it drop off the cliff, then they may get better or we can keep going 8-8 every year.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 27, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

The real issue with the 2008 draft class is we don't know what we've got. The glimpses we've gotten are not promising, but most of these guys are mysteries.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

"Care to back your assertions here up with any of the evidence/links you are always want?"

Actually if you go back and re-read what I wrote, you'll find I was just putting MY OWN THOUGHTS down. I never claimed this was the truth, or could be accurate, or was being reported somewhere else. Just stating IT DIDN'T MAKE sense to me. I was unaware that I had to get approval from you before posting my thoughts....

Don't you have a diaper to go change.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

+++As for ends, there was some discussion about Jason Taylor ... his $8.5 million salary is very steep and he will be approached about coming back at a lesser salary, according to a source. That's quite unlikely to go down, though... Some believe he would even go back to Miami at a discount, if Bill Parcells would take him, to finish his career there. Regardless, coming back here for half his salary seems unrealistic at this point.+++-_JLC

First of all, Taylor should be refunding half his salary for '08--or distributing it to season ticket holders--not turning down half that pay for '09.

What a lovely ending to the Taylor saga it would be if he ends up back in Miami along with the Draft Picks surrendered for him,

Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Maybe they see Rinehart can’t play the same way they saw Andre Johnson couldn’t play from the start also. It’s not rocket science.

This post just further highlights the lunacy in drafting the 3 pass catchers last year and trading a #2 for a 36 year old dancer. Four #2’s down the drain. I do think they should extend JC now. Since he’s coming off a mediocre year they should be able to get him cheaper now than they would’ve if they extended him after the 6-2 start. If they draft a solid RT at 13 and JC miraculously improves once he’s not running for his life he’s going to cost a lot more.

Posted by: skinswest | January 27, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

"Some believe he would even go back to Miami at a discount, if Bill Parcells would take him."

Remember at the end of the movie "Armegeddon"when the crew came back to earth and they were walking in slow-motion to meet their loved ones?Thats the visual I get of how JT55 would look returning to Miami WITH our 2nd and 6th round picks walking behind him.

Posted by: smittdiddy | January 27, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

I agree with Z's grades, except Horton. As I said, I think the guy is good, not great - yet, but good. The dude will beast out for the 'skins, but to give him an 'A' is to say he played as well as Reed and Polamalu.

Horton played very well for a rookie, and maybe that's why most of you are giving him a grade of 'A', but I can't do that, sorry. He was on a NFL field, he should be graded and held to the same standard as his peers.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

What's the point of getting JC cheaper if you see he doesn't have it to be your long-term starter? Are you paying him in anticipation of him being your back up?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

I love the fact that JLC continues to expound on his theory or targeting specific positions in the draft instead of best available...as most NFL GMs will say is the way to go. There was a big article on ESPN.com today talking about how one of the big thing the Cardinals credit with their teams improvement is changing from a draft for need to a draft the best available philosophy. Two examples from the article are drafting Steve Breston (1000 rec yards) when they already had Fitzgerald & Boldin and taking Adrian Wilson when they had two top safties...both big time contributors to this team.

Posted by: JLR75 | January 27, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Who cares about going 8-8, let it drop off the cliff, then they may get better or we can keep going 8-8 every year.

Posted by: Flounder21

No team wants to drop off a cliff. But if your point is rebuilding needs to happen, I agree. Unfortunately 2009 doesn't look like a good year to rebuild. Limited picks + cap issues + 2008 draft unknowns are all problematic.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

How can you give Brennan, Jackson, Tryon all 'C', when Kelly, Thomas, and Davis all saw more time on the field. True, NONE of them except Horton was productive, but to give Jackson, Brennan, and Tryon higher grades I think is straight erroneous.

Posted by: RedDMV

-----

You can't grade a 6th or 7th rounder on the same scale as a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

Brennan was brought in to be the 3rd QB. He won the job and served the team the way he was supposed to (maybe even surpassed it given his play in the preseason and reason for optimism in the future).

Horton was a fringe guy to even make the roster, yet ended the season as one of the team leaders in tackles, tackles for loss, forced turnovers, and even sacks (although that's not saying much). Even if he weren't graded as a 7th rounder, he would be right around a B+.

Kelly, Thomas, and Davis were all brought in with the expectation of contributing immediately in some form (and don't give me any garbage about expecting otherwise). None of them lived up to expectations. Same with Rinehart, who was supposed to provide good depth along the offensive line, yet was inactivated in favor of Geisinger and Fabini for essentially the entire season.

Jackson falls in the same category as Brennan, just with a little lower grade. Tryon falls in the same category as Rinehart, providing nothing despite being a 4th rounder.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Beantown, I am changing yours today and it stinks. you can dish, so you can take right?

"The WP and the Redskins relationship is probably beyond repairable."

Proof?

"VC wont even take calls, or talk to Jla,"

Now the post clearly states this was co-researched with JR, who in fact just this month had a sit down with Vinny. So presumably their is contact there.

"and I'd be shocked if this didn't hold true for EVERY member of the scouting dept."

Maybe, most likely not the case.

But you know don't let the facts get in the way of your agenda/point/argument (I believe you have used all three in this line repeatedly)

Think of me as your HS debate coach, just trying to strengthen your rhetorical game.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Red, you logic on the Horton grade is OK. I graded draft picks as rookies, not against the rest of the league. Very few rookies are 'A' level players, but I'm OK with Horton getting an 'A' as a pick.

Most important, though, is how few of the Skins picks actually got enough PT to make an impression.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

cl, can dish and take...thanks, get over yourself...when did you become the blog police??


"

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Everything sounds just peachy! Clear as mud! And what moron(s) put us in this position? Oh yeah, the "danny-boy and Vinny show". C'mon people, it ain't gonna change as long as they are running the asylum. Get used to it. Wake me in 5 years when we have a real GM.

Posted by: 1of9000 | January 27, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

"Horton played very well for a rookie, and maybe that's why most of you are giving him a grade of 'A', but I can't do that, sorry. He was on a NFL field, he should be graded and held to the same standard as his peers.

Posted by: RedDMV"

I see what you're saying. I was grading them based on what we should have expected in their rookie seasons.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

psps, agree to disagree.

I don't see how you can't hold rookies to the same standard, regardless of where they're drafted, it's up to them to decide how much of an impact they're going to make on the team.

That's why regarding the three pass catchers, you'll have no arguments from me. You're damn right, they were supposed tom come in and contribute this year immediately, and did nothing of the sort. They stunk the joint up.

That's why after looking at Z's grades, I agreed with his assessment more than anyone elses. The I's or INC makes perfect sense when grading this class, only one to come in and do anything was Horton, but excsue me if I don't "crown 'em" just yet.

Like I said, giving Horton an 'A' would be to say he performed at the level of Reed and Polamalu, and this is just not the case.

Don't tell me "well he was a 7th rounder and was a long shot to make the team" nonsense. Horton made the team, Horton played in games this year. When he steps out on that field he his held accountable for his assignments and performance just like a 10 year vet would.

I'm sure even Horton would tell you this.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"cl, can dish and take...thanks, get over yourself...when did you become the blog police??"

You are my inspiration, I learned all my moves from you and am now practicing on the master!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"I was grading them based on what we should have expected in their rookie seasons"

Rookie wide outs have a history of taking a couple years to get up to speed....do they not??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I see last year as year one of our trying to build a real team. I hope we continue but like other still have little faith. I say we stick with a build for next year approach and just draft a line grab a young free agent here and there.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

sorry, posted that without asking cl for permission...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

I see what you're saying. I was grading them based on what we should have expected in their rookie seasons.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 1:22 PM

Okay, indeed. Hence the inflated high marks.

lol

Horton from what I've seen will be a player in this league - just hope its with the 'skins.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

sorry BG, I will stop it with your tactics...I will provide you with a permission link shortly.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Don't tell me "well he was a 7th rounder and was a long shot to make the team" nonsense. Horton made the team, Horton played in games this year. When he steps out on that field he his held accountable for his assignments and performance just like a 10 year vet would.

I'm sure even Horton would tell you this.

Posted by: RedDMV

---

Sure Horton would "say" that, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily true (or that he actually believed it).

When you invest a certain amount of assets (money, draft picks, or other players in a trade) into acquiring somebody, you expect something out of them. It's different for every player.

Andre Carter led the defensive line in tackles, sacks, and tackles for loss. Would you give him the highest grade among all our defensive linemen this season, or downgrade someone like Evans' contribution as a result?

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I look forward to seeing Horton in a year or two when he is a little bigger. He reminded me of ST and Rogers when they started, a little twiggy, but they bulked up (or looked to) after a year or two and the extra muscle helped their game. But I hope CH48 keeps the dreads.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

The most prominent performance by a Redskin
employee, it the "Redskinettes cheerleaders". At least when they are on
the field, they have the right moves.

Posted by: madalao | January 27, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Rookie wide outs have a history of taking a couple years to get up to speed....do they not??

Posted by: BeantownGreg

-----

Yea. I didn't say I expected them to be starters who end up with 70 receptions and 1000+ yards. I said they were expected to contribute to this offense. Only Thomas actually contributed, and his contribution was almost negligible. None of them lived up to expectations (although I give Kelly a pass because of the amount of time he missed).

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

What's the point of getting JC cheaper if you see he doesn't have it to be your long-term starter? Are you paying him in anticipation of him being your back up?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

While I'm not sure JC will ever be a top tier QB, I do think he can be pretty good (playoff caliber in fact) if he's surrounded with talent. If they sign him now they should be able to get him at a lower cost. It's a gamble either way but I'd rather they gamble that he can be the answer at QB for the next few years at least than risk either overpaying him next year or starting over at QB altogether.

Posted by: skinswest | January 27, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

psp, it looks like we are each right and wrong on our respective positions re Heyer and Campbell if what JLa says is in fact true. The team doesn't think highly of either guy and apparently doesn't hold out a lot of hope for improvement.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

BTW, I don't view Griffin as dead weight. He still adds to the team. Dead weight are players like Jon Jansen and Fred Smoot, neither of whom actually add anything positive to the product on the field, yet still cost boatloads of money.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Someone posted a couple of weeks ago what players salaries are versus what the cap hit would be to keep them.

Jansen will have a salary of $3.4 mill, and the cap hit would be $6.2 mill. So if we cut JJ, we would lose $6.2 mill plus the salary of the replacement.

I think we have to keep JJ as a backup.

There is no cap hit for either Smoot or Griffin. Griffin does have some solidarity to the DL, and he is a great clubhouse leader. So we have to assess who would be available, and whether they would add more than Griff.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 27, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

cHRislarry is the blog police (capitalization)
Nate is the blog police (Mayberry detachment)
JM220 is the blog police (corporal punishment)
sween is the blog police (snowcam)
Leigh Torrance is the blog police (Chuck Norris division)

Posted by: daggar | January 27, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Awww, poor Marrywin got blown out and they think it was unfair! Maybe Coach K should issue a public apology like that HS coach in Texas who beat the mentally challenged team 100-0?

And how 'bout stop making stuff up? I looked at the stats and 13 of Duke's 14 players played in that game, 12 of them 9 minutes or more.

Go cry a river, yall suck!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Truth, who exactly are "your" teams? Where exactly did you go to school? What cities? What states? Did you attend Duke? Or was it some community college on Tobacco Road and you've decided to pipe the big dogs b/c your alma mater had no programs?

I'm just curious. Apart from the Skins, you seem to jock any team that is generally from the "South", and that's a pretty convenient position to have.

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

psp, Kelly was a healthy scratch for how many weeks at the end of the year?? I'm just saying that had zorn not had his head up his own behind, he could have contributed more.

cl, go hold hands with corky, and have a breath holding contest, first one to drop, loses.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

+++Since when does Vinny speak candidly with WaPo or any other media outlet?

Posted by: dcsween+++


Excellent point. It looks like he's determined to fake them into believing he has marginal competence, then surprise everyone with a draft class like last year's

OR... Look sween, you're a smart guy, or at least play one on this board. Surely, Shirley, you can recognize a Survivor in Survivor mode.

Vinny has done everything short of firebomb the Post building lately, now, suddenly, he's available to the beat reporter he despises? Someone, methinks, is in Image Re-enhancement Mode.

Media Dweebs are seduceable. Not just with broads, booze, or $$$. It's access they crave.

Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

skinswest, Zorn is a QB coach. If he thought JC was a "playoff caliber" QB if he had the weapons, it only makes sense that he would have told management and an extension would be in the offing. Does it make sense to have your starting QB entering the final year of his deal without any idea about the future (or his security) if you thought he had a future as your starter? When he drops back to pass behind what we are told is a broken oline, what do you think will be racing through his mind?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

psps, I would give Andre Carter a D+ (71)

I would give Evans a D (67)

To me there wasn't too much that distinguished their play from one another.

Yeah, Carter may have had the best numbers along the defensive line, but if you looked at the games and notice the and hold the trival things in high regard (i.e. shedding blocks - but not neccessarily making the tackle) you can't argue the fact that Evans had about just as much impact as Carter.

I watch to watch and judge the game by more than just stats, not saying you do though.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

psp, it looks like we are each right and wrong on our respective positions re Heyer and Campbell if what JLa says is in fact true. The team doesn't think highly of either guy and apparently doesn't hold out a lot of hope for improvement.

Posted by: learnedhand1

-----

Agreed. I don't think the team doesn't hold out a lot of hope for improvement, just that they're not ready to rest the future on either of these guys right now. I'm pretty sure they value both of these players, as it doesn't look like Campbell has any threatening competition coming in, and Heyer will remain as the primary safety valve without any argument.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Chad Rinehart (N. Iowa) - rookie OL drafted in 3rd round by Skins, did not play in a single game.

Carl Nicks (Nebraska) - rookie OL drafted in 5th round by Saints, played in all 16 game, started final 13 games at OG (and I think you could say their line did a decent job pass blocking this past season).

I provide this comparison because pre-draft, I had Nicks on my radar as a high value OL prospect for our 3rd round pick, and was bummed when the Skins chose Rinehart instead (who I had never heard of prior to that momment, despite being somewhat of a draftnick and knowing the Skins had needs at OL).

The point is, if a guy who works in the insurance business (me) can do a better job scouting talent based on what he reads on draft websites, then Vinny and our scouting department are truly a disaster.

P.S. Bruce Allen, where are you?!?

Posted by: PDXskin | January 27, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

As much as I like Griff, he is one of the guys with a short term future with this team. Whether its this year or next, he will be gone. Just not healthy enough.

To me, its about the order they let guys go. The list of guys who need to go is mostly clear, its just a matter of who goes first.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

A pretty bleak outlook. Big needs, few dollars, few draft picks.

The team had top 5 D last year, even without a pass rush. So, there should be no panic there. Any upgrades to defensive personnel would be unnecessary gravy at this point.

If we draft an impact RT, that should help Thomas and Kendall as well for 09.

With a poor line, you don't know what you have at QB. Unless his name is Patrick Ramsey. So, the lack of a long term deal for Campbell makes sense. Wait to see what he can do with protection and with healthy and motivated young receivers.

I like the RB idea, if for no other reason than as leverage against the next CP outburst. That was a big distraction for Zorn this past year, and has team cancer potential.

With question marks on the line, the QB, the WRs, the coach's philosophy, it's really hard to expect anything out of the offense again next year. That's a bummer when you play in the division where every defense is top 10.

Posted by: mirf59 | January 27, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

That was the next comment i predicted you would make BG!...wishing death...I would hope you were "better than that" as you once told me...but part of me loves being right!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

The most prominent performance by a Redskin
employee, it the "Redskinettes cheerleaders". At least when they are on
the field, they have the right moves.


Posted by: madalao | January 27, 2009 1:32 PM

LOL, what a cheese ball you are... lol

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

+++Why the hell did we take him in the 3rd round then, if he wasn't even close to being a BACKUP in the NFL?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 27, 2009 11:28 AM

At any position, the draft is a crap shoot ... even when you go for a guy from a power house like Northern Iowa.

Posted by: dcsween+++

I’ve about had it up to here with your cynicism, Sween. It has no place on this board.

Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

"I look forward to seeing Horton in a year or two when he is a little bigger. He reminded me of ST and Rogers when they started, a little twiggy, but they bulked up (or looked to) after a year or two and the extra muscle helped their game. But I hope CH48 keeps the dreads."

ST actually got smaller from when he first came into the league. He came in around 220-230 and dropped to around 210 for his last year. Skins need a true FS to emerge and play centerfield so LL can make plays in the box. Horton is just a slower, less athletic version of LL. Love his heart, but I think Kareem Moore will end up being the better player.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | January 27, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Watched Andre Carter on probably 30 plays this year. He was handled one on one pretty much every time. He never beat anyone. He hustles and makes occasional plays because he never quits. But there is just no impact there.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Fair enough Red, agree to disagree. I would have given Carter a solid C, while giving Evans a B-. Carter was solid but underwhelming given his expecatations, while Evans was solid but overachieving given his expected role on the team.

You've got your scale based purely on performance, while mine is based on how I'd value the guy for this team moving forward (meaning results vs. expectations). Again, agree to disagree.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

RIP John Updike

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

+++That was the next comment i predicted you would make BG!...wishing death...I would hope you were "better than that" as you once told me...but part of me loves being right!

Posted by: chrislarry +++


All due respect, Chris Larry, but predicting Bean's "next post" ain't exactly Brain Surgery. It's more like playing Chess with a Howler Monkey.

I'm sorry. That was a cheap shot. Let me apologize. Sorry for the insult, Howler Monkeys.

Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

cl, as usual, I was being serious, I really wanted you to get together with corky, hold his hands, and hold your breath till you passed out. You're right. You're always right. Of course you predicted it, because, you're always right.

"part of me loves being right" - lol, dude for someone who is as self righteous, and self promoting as you, that should have read, "I LOVE BEING RIGHT BECAUSE I ALWAYS AM RIGHT JUST ASK ME".....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

p1, TheTruth is a trolling d-bag that just happens to have a screen name. For the love of things holy, please don't waste time trying to understand his moronic brain, you're IQ will drop a little in attempting to do so.

But to the tool's credit (or maybe not), if I remember correctly (Oh yes, I remember a lot that was said, and who it was said by on this blog, FYI) he went to College of Charleston. A few years back they knocked off Maryland in the tournamnet - one if the bigger upsets in the tourney that year.

I remember thinking "WTFI College of Charleston". They're like UDC up here - not even on George Mason level.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

+++RIP John Updike

Posted by: chrislarry++

Damn. Man had a way with words. I heard Vinny had just offered a 5th rounder to Knopf for him.

Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Again, agree to disagree.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 1:48 PM

yep you know it, as always....

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Yods'

Maybe. Moore did good on Special Teams. I was not talking bigger in terms of overall weight but physically. ST and CR both looked bigger, maybe more pure muscle. Rogers is more obvious when you look at him.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

pdx, the only problem is had the redskins taken nicks, he wouldn't have gotten any PT like CR did. Rinehardt, if you go back and re-read some of the pre-draft write-ups on him, was highly spoken of....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

cHRislarry is the blog police (capitalization)
Nate is the blog police (Mayberry detachment)
JM220 is the blog police (corporal punishment)
sween is the blog police (snowcam)
Leigh Torrance is the blog police (Chuck Norris division)


Posted by: daggar

LMAO!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 27, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Sorry for the insult, Howler Monkeys.

Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 1:49 PM

LOL,
Good call you don't want to go home tonight and see your door covered in poo.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

why he gots to be a monkey tho?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

red = Tyler in Boomerang. :)

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

The Eagles are almost guaranteed to cut John Runyan according to most reports in Philly. If this happens, I think we have an excellent shot of signing him to a 1 year deal at RT. Dude has a mean streak and is tough, doesn't miss games and plays in a West Coast offense so the scheme is similar. He also just built a huge compound outside of Philly and we'd be the 2nd closest team to him and the Giants don't need a T. Plus, he knows the players in the NFC east he'd be playing against each week very well having been in the division. I would not be surprised to see us sign him immediately when he's cut.

Posted by: 6-2StackMonster | January 27, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

I could see Runyan as a stopgap but only for vet min.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Plain and simple: 4 - 12 in 2009
Colt McCoy picked # 2 overall by Skins.

Posted by: Devo2 | January 27, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

pdx, the only problem is had the redskins taken nicks, he wouldn't have gotten any PT like CR did. Rinehardt, if you go back and re-read some of the pre-draft write-ups on him, was highly spoken of....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 1:55 PM
_____________________
Exactly. Our 2 guards performance wasn't the problem this year, its their age and likeliness to get injured in the future that people want them replaced. They didn't miss a start, so a rookie 5th round pick probably wouldn't have been active as he is trying to learn one position, let alone be a backup to mutiple on gameday.

Posted by: 6-2StackMonster | January 27, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

2009 record 4-12. Possibly win the first four games before the injuries start, then wrap up the season with a solid 12 game losing streak.

2010/11 can't get here soon enough.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | January 27, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I think this offseason is all about the next offseason. The Spaghetti Gang sees next year as the game changer, where all hell breaks loose with the collective bargaining agreement and the owner with the bigger, thicker wallet finally has a chance against the smart little guys who keep taking their lunch money at 3 card monte

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Fitzgerald, for one, really wants Boldin to stay. In fact, ProFootballTalk is reporting that Adam Shefter told them Fitzgerald is willing to restructure his deal so the Cards have enough money to retain Boldin. Far be it for me to make the judgment as an outsider, but which guy seems like a better friend and teammate: the one who cries and whines when he realizes the other one -- who is clearly better -- is making more money, or the one who is willing to give back some of the money he earned just to make the other happy?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 27, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Kareem Moore will be our FS
and we will put LL back at SS and play more cobra package this year getting Horton on the field more.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | January 27, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

The one good thing about us only having 4 draft picks?

We'll only have 4 poorly performing rookies on our team next year (instead of the 10 Vinny and Dan forced onto the roster this year)

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | January 27, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

"Truth, who exactly are "your" teams? Where exactly did you go to school? What cities? What states? Did you attend Duke? Or was it some community college on Tobacco Road and you've decided to pipe the big dogs b/c your alma mater had no programs?

I'm just curious. Apart from the Skins, you seem to jock any team that is generally from the "South", and that's a pretty convenient position to have.

Posted by: p1funk"

Ha! You've been ruined!

I'm laughing at Maryland right now, not pimping any team in particular, just laughing at Maryland!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

After rereading and Reading LH's comments here is my conclusions......

JLaC pumped up the comments that went with his thinkings and downplayed and/or is not fully reporting the statements that go against what he believes...........

I need to be told at what level the sources are to actually believe this........

Also, they said Jeff Bostic wasn't a starting caliber center in this league. And look what happened there......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Far be it for me to make the judgment as an outsider, but which guy seems like a better friend and teammate: the one who cries and whines when he realizes the other one -- who is clearly better -- is making more money, or the one who is willing to give back some of the money he earned just to make the other happy?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

---

Or you can spin it the other way and ask which one is better: the guy who plays with an extremely cheap contract in comparison to production (easily top 5 NFL WR), shuts his mouth all season long, and risks his career by coming back as quickly as possible from any and all injuries for the benefit of the team, or the guy that hamstrings the rest of the team by signing one of the most lucrative contracts ever for an NFL wide receiver (even if he's the best in the league)?

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

The more JLaC talks about how the front office says there will be no big moves, the more I think the FO is putting up a smoke screen - and they are planning to land a big free agent. I think Jason has fallen for their trick. Mark my words, one big FA - maybe Haynesworth....

Posted by: Wemiss21 | January 27, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I would not mind seeing a cobra if we think Moore is ready, which I am realizing is more like a 4-2-5, I guess I am slow. For some reason last year I thought Cobra was a new thing did not know 42-5 was a 3 Safety set not 2.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

"So maybe now you understand the "real" reason. Stop trying to stir the pot, d-bag.


Posted by: RedDMV"

so when you said people don't like Portis because he's black a month or so ago, we just give you a pass?

You still obsess over things I might have said the first day I ever posted here, loser.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

I dont understand how all those rookies can be doing THAT bad in practice to not even warrant getting some live game action because everyone can tell you practice is not the same as a real game and when we dont put rookies out there in live game action how can we judge them?!?! obviously everyone from scouts and vinny to mel kiper and todd mcshay were just wrong about ALL of our draft picks

Posted by: hillb03 | January 27, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

"lh, you can respond to any post you want, but I was directing this at TheTruth specifically because of his use of "y'all" in terms of sports. He'll use it when talking about UGA - which he never went to. He'll use it when talking about any pro team WHICH I KNOW he's never been a part of.

Of cousre if you are attending a school or alumni, but never played on the team of course you can have that association of "y'all".

But for TheTruth and TheTruth only: "Y'all" in terms of team association = emotionally invested/b*tch mode = lameness = weakness

Posted by: RedDMV "


hey Red, please please explain how when I use the word "yall" to describe the Georgia Bulldogs or the Redskins, that I am association myself with the team.

Using exactly what you said, you would have me saying "Yall Georgia Bulldogs are good." or "Yall Washington Redskins are bad."

So please re-explain this stupidity you're talking about, it makes no sense.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

RE: Rinehart/Nicks comparison... point taken, if the guy never gets to play a snap in a live game, it's not a fair comparision. And I believe Nicks got his shot due to injury to the starter, and then never surrendered the position - Rinehart didn't get that opportunity. But, the article from JLC (questionable as it may be) seems to indicate Rinehart showed nothing in practice that would have encouraged the coaches to even allow him to have that shot, had the opportunity been there...and that is what gives me pause regarding his selection as our 3rd round pick, versus someone like Nicks.

Posted by: PDXskin | January 27, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

red = Tyler in Boomerang. :)

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 2:02 PM

One of my favorites... so you too have noticed the pool table?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Fitzgerald, for one, really wants Boldin to stay. In fact, ProFootballTalk is reporting that Adam Shefter told them Fitzgerald is willing to restructure his deal so the Cards have enough money to retain Boldin. Far be it for me to make the judgment as an outsider, but which guy seems like a better friend and teammate: the one who cries and whines when he realizes the other one -- who is clearly better -- is making more money, or the one who is willing to give back some of the money he earned just to make the other happy?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 27, 2009 2:15 PM

JM,

Restructuring doesn't mean giving it back. It means getting more of it guaranteed, usually. This is not a selfless act.

And, it doesn't make any sense, either, because if the Cards have both of these receivers earning the big bucks, then they will have to hold the rest of the team to the vet minimum.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

pdx, I think it was a combination of buges not trusting anyone who wasn't a veteran, along with jzorn not giving anyone who was a rookie a shot, ie, Kelly at the end, Jackson, Rhinhardt.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

alex,

I dunno man, ST was so big when he came in wearing 36...he looked like a LB. Los has definitely gotten bigger though. If you're like me and love to watch safeties blow people up, keep an eye on the Eric Berry kid from Tennessee. He's the best college safety I've seen since ST.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | January 27, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

so when you said people don't like Portis because he's black a month or so ago, we just give you a pass?

You still obsess over things I might have said the first day I ever posted here, loser.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 2:29 PM

how in the hell am i supposed to remember what you posted the first day here. all i know is you used to post everything in 1st person.

and yes I will like a pass, i am asking for one, NOT! You assbag. I only said don't try and pull things from the 5KBs of storage you call a brain, and try and stir the pot. people have said a lot of things up here, that i haven't agreed with, but it's their OPINION, and it isn't any sweat off my brow, do you get that?

and OF course, you'd never talked about UGA and reffered to them as y'all, doofus. it's the lame team you root for, in fact your corny ass refers to them as "us".

so with that said: us/y'all in terms of team association = emotionally invested/b*tch mode = lameness = weakness

go hit the power bar. you're the holy trinity: lame, weak, and stupid.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

One of my favorites... so you too have noticed the pool table?


LOL. "Racial, man. Racial."

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"Fitzgerald, for one, really wants Boldin to stay. In fact, ProFootballTalk is reporting that Adam Shefter told them Fitzgerald is willing to restructure his deal so the Cards have enough money to retain Boldin."

it isn't like Fitz should be awarded the man of the year for a comment like this. he isn't dumb, Boldin is a beast, meaning he'll command as much double teams as Fitz.

why wouldn't he want him out there.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

BG and CL need to get better promotion or get their blog fight game up. You can't get the big bucks fighting on the undercard of Truth vs. RedDMV XXII.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Yods,
I am a big fan of guys who can pull of playing that tween spot between Safety and LB, who have that speed of a typical FS and hit like they way an extra 50 lbs

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

The more JLaC talks about how the front office says there will be no big moves, the more I think the FO is putting up a smoke screen - and they are planning to land a big free agent. I think Jason has fallen for their trick. Mark my words, one big FA - maybe Haynesworth....

Posted by: Wemiss21 | January 27, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

.....a new GM!

Posted by: dadanimal | January 27, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I need to find a blog nemesis.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 27, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Boldin is staying in AZ. No way even a Bidwell messes that up.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

O_E,
A good blog nemesis does not get searched for but rather, they find you.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I hate to say it, but Eric Berry looks better in college than MEAST did.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

I need to find a blog nemesis.

I'm your huckleberry.


Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

not a snyder/cerrato apolgist, but would like to point out that the general school of thought is to grade a draft 3 years after it happens.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 12:57 PM

Rocky MacIntosh - B-
Anthony Montgomery - C
Reed Doughty - D
Kedric Golston - B+
Kili Lefotu - F
Kevin Simon - F

Losing your spot to a rookie gets you a D. Being drafted as a medical risk (and the medical risk ripens into medical impairment) gets you a B minus. Love Golston, but given this year's defensive line performance, there are no A's awarded to any lineman.

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

"I hate to say it, but Eric Berry looks better in college than MEAST did"

Do you say that because of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7Oj8wmRLQ

I can't really argue with that, but ST was a physical freak that I doubt we'll ever see the likes of again.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | January 27, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

dc, looks fair enough to me.....you'll get no argument from me on that.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Does Ask.com work?

Escort Pleads To Tax Charges

Cristina Warthen, 35,a 2001 graduate of Stanford Law School who became a professional escort using the stage name "Brazil" pleaded guilty in federal court on Monday to tax evasion. She admitted operating an escort business in which she traded sex acts for money.

She ran a Web site where she offered paid memberships, posted erotic photos of herself and advertised her services, pricing and travel schedule.

She is the wife of David Warthen, co-founder of Ask.com.

+++++

Conclusion: Ask.com does not work

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

We need a GM NOW! And then we need to blow up this aging mess. Trade everyone not named Landry if you can and start over. In 2-4 years we will be a team to be feared. Right now, because of all the mistakes of the past, it's the best course of action. Think Capitals.

Posted by: jandlml | January 27, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

The blog itself has a nemesis ... and he singlehandedly killed the blog for several hours last night ... see monoblogging in previous thread btwn 12:30am - 1:00am ... then dead overnight for nearly nine hours.

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

as if picking off Stafford is\was a difficult task

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

hey Red, please please explain how when I use the word "yall" to describe the Georgia Bulldogs or the Redskins, that I am association myself with the team.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 2:34 PM

Truth does not associate himself with the Georgia Bulldogs. He associates himself with Georgia Tech. Truth is a 'Ramblin 'Reck and a helluva an engineer.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

"as if picking off Stafford is\was a difficult task"

hahaha, he just owned your 2 big draft picks from this year. He'll be top 10 next year for sure.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | January 27, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I want to know if jason feels that dhall will get anywhere near the deal that leigh torrance gets in free agency. I mean leigh torrance is the best to play the position ever. No debate!!

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 27, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

lol @ Georgia Tech nerds


seriously

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

You're always right. Of course you predicted it, because, you're always right.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 1:49 PM

Beaner,

You're strictly speaking for yourself here. I don't think he's ever right when he and I disagree. Wait right here -- I'm gonna post some links in a few minutes.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

I really hope they let Springs go and keep Rogers. I don't think Springs cares when he misses games and he misses A LOT of games nowadays. I know Rogers can't catch, but how many more picks has Springs had than Rogers the last four years? Let's see... one! Sign DHall, keep Rogers, and say bu-bye to Springs. Also, they better not bring back Jason Taylor. Seems like a nice enough guy, but too expensive.

We are gonna suck for a while. Glad I didn't get those season tickets when my number came up!

Posted by: praitt1 | January 27, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Ha! You've been ruined!

I'm laughing at Maryland right now, not pimping any team in particular, just laughing at Maryland!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

I'VE been ruined?

You wouldn't even answer my very simple questions b/c it is obvious that you went to some sad-sack schools with no programs to speak of, and so you've become a wannabe jock-strap carrier for some other "Southern" schools that actually have athletic programs that people outside of Mayberry have heard of.

So let's just stay tight over the Skins around here, b/c obviously when you track out of that realm you're gonna get crapped on...

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

just ask him, te, he'll tell you as much...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

"I want to know if jason feels that dhall will get anywhere near the deal that leigh torrance gets in free agency. I mean leigh torrance is the best to play the position ever. No debate!!

Posted by: drewkinnear "

SMALL debate actually

there's only two names that pop into my head when I think of "Washington Redskins cornerback".

1) Darrell Green
2) Leigh Torrence


two best ever IMO

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

This just in.... New England Patriots hire former Titans GM Floyd Reese to take over for the recently departed Scott Pioli.

Here's what Patriots owner Robert Kraft had to say on the hiring:

"We consider ourselves fortunate to have the opportunity to add someone with Floyd Reese's NFL experience and expertise to our staff," said Patriots Chairman and CEO Robert Kraft. "Floyd will be a tremendous asset serving Coach Belichick in an advisory role."
Reese had been working as an analyst on ESPN the past two seasons. During his time with the Titans, the team won 106 regular season games, three division titles and played in Super Bowl XXXIV.

Notable players on the Titans roster who were selected under Reese's watch include Albert Haynesworth, Keith Bulluck, Lendale White, Bo Scaife, and Cortland Finnegan. Three of his 11 first round picks ended up winning rookie of the year honors (Eddie George, Jevon Kearse and Vince Young) while he also selected Steve McNair with the No. 3 pick of the 1995 draft.

In hindsight, the low point of his tenure was perhaps the selection of Adam "Pacman" Jones in 2005 with the No. 6 overall pick.

Damn! And the rich just keep geting richer!

Now please excuse me while I fart in Vinny Cerrato's general direction.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 27, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Grade the rest of the NFC East on their drafts three years out:

Giants
Mathias Kawinuka
Sinorice Moss
Gerris Wilkinson
Barry Cofield
Guy Whimper
Charlie Peprah
Gerrick MacPhearson

Dallas
Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Jason Hatcher
Skyler Green
Pat Watkins
Montavious Stanley
Pat McQuistan
E.J. Whitley

Philly
Broderick Bunkley
Winston Justice
Chris Gocong
Max Jean-Gilles
Jason Avant
Jeremy Bloom
Omar Gaither
LaJuan Ramsey

[First person who says that the Skins did no worse than Dallas gets a stern glower coming his/her way.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Kedric Golston - B+

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 3:03 PM

Wow! Golston gets a B plus? Man I know this is the team we root for and all, but face it man, outside of Portis, Moss, Cooley, Landry, Fletcher, Samuels, and Springs, nobody, I said nobody, should get a grade higher than a C+.

Know why? The record is consistently average, meaning that most of the players are average overall.

If Golston is a B+, I damn near shudder to think what would you give Andre Carter - *put your hand down, psps.*

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

The Skins did no worse than Dallas.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

leigh torrance and eddie royal will have their bronze busts inshrined on canton next to darrell green and art monk mark my words!!!!!

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 27, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

[First person who says that the Skins did no worse than Dallas gets a stern glower coming his/her way.]


Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

I'd say we did no worse than Dallas...how do you figure?

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

hey TheTurd11, do you actually have any ties to UGA besides it being the school your daddy made you root for, or else?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

dc, Philly obviously takes the top prize, for Bunkley, Gocong, Avant, and Gaither, all of whom I believe start for them. I'd say that the Redskins had maybe the 2nd best draft of that group.....just my opinion, in case anyone has their underthings in a bunch.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

winston justice is worse than heyer, just ask osi uminorya (however you spell his name) bobby carpenter is an enormous bust and parcells was enamoured with is size coming out of OSU.

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 27, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Ah it does my heart good to see someone else fighting with beantownmoron.

I still don't get why Jla and everyone assumes they go RT with the #13. If 3 or 4 are taking before our pick (which most mocks predict) it seems silly to take the 5th best prospect. On top of that, while Heyer won't be going to the pro bowl he's serviceable and young, I watched every game and the huge issue I saw after the 6-2 was no more pulling guards and pressure from every no name DT we played in the JC's face giving him nowhere to step into a pocket. Especially if this info on Rhino is accurate I think replacing our guards is more important than upgrading on Heyer the one young guy with starting experience who's proven he can at least be an average player. If Oher, Monroe, and both Smiths go top 10 like it looks like we should be trading back in round one and grabbing Duke Robinson and another guard with the extra pick.

And I still say grabbing a speed back in the 3rd would be a big move for this offense, James Davis Clemson, Devin Moore Wyoming, Rashard Jennings Liberty, or even a UFA flier on LaMarcus Coker

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 27, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

p1, carp was a 1st round pick, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't start, and didn't Fasano get traded to Miami last year?? Other than Watkins, I'm not sure any of those guys contribute to the team.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV, I grade based on expectations and upside. Golston is the second best DT (after Corny and before Lozo). Andre Carter gets a C, maybe C minus. Cornelius gets a B+, as does Evans.

Of the other NFC East teams, I'm passing out A or A minus grades to: Kiwi, Cofield, and Gocong.

[Fasano gets a B in Miami ... and Avant gets a B+ ... only b/c he pulled himself near the end of the season on my FF team].

TheTruth11, consider yourself sternly glowered at.

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

p1, carp was a 1st round pick, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't start, and didn't Fasano get traded to Miami last year?? Other than Watkins, I'm not sure any of those guys contribute to the team.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I remember hearing Carpenter's name during some games here and there, but I don't even know what he plays or how much.

Watkins is a receiver, but I think he just returns kicks every now and then in the absence of Pacman/Felix.

Fasano was their best guy, but it looks like they pulled a Vinny and overloaded at TE and he's now with Miami.

The other names could be the list of Top Chef participants for all I know.

Yup. I'd say we did no worse than Dallas.

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

hey TheTurd11, do you actually have any ties to UGA besides it being the school your daddy made you root for, or else?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse


No Red, he won't answer that question. He tried to pooh-pooh UMD and I showed him the back of my Terp hand...now he seems to be ignoring our posts...

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

I'll be honest I don't know all these players on here, but the ones that I do, I'll give 'em the D-M-V grade:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grade the rest of the NFC East on their drafts three years out:

Giants
Mathias Kawinuka - B+
Sinorice Moss - D
Gerris Wilkinson - N/A
Barry Cofield - A-
Guy Whimper - N/A
Charlie Peprah - N/A
Gerrick MacPhearson - N/A

Dallas
Bobby Carpenter - D-
Anthony Fasano - D+
Jason Hatcher - N/A
Skyler Green - D-
Pat Watkins - D+
Montavious Stanley - N/A
Pat McQuistan - N/A
E.J. Whitley - N/A

Philly
Broderick Bunkley - D+
Winston Justice - C
Chris Gocong - C+
Max Jean-Gilles - N/A
Jason Avant - C
Jeremy Bloom - F
Omar Gaither - B
LaJuan Ramsey - N/A

[First person who says that the Skins did no worse than Dallas gets a stern glower coming his/her way.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 3:15 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I said I don't claim to be a self-proclaimed genius regarding football like some who post up here. If you know these players (And don't just grade them on the stats you see at NFL.com, either) - ALL of them, then I suggests you get a life.

*Note to Sween* - Just becasue you're able to pull 'em doesn't mean you know them.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

BeanGreg, I don't equate starting with a high grade. If I did, the Raiders would have alot of As. I only tossed up the other NFC East teams b/c I figured that those three would be more familiar than other teams guys (outside of Skins fans, I'm guessing few NFL fans know much about MacIntosh, much less Golston).

Bunkley and Justice (who both start) are big bloopers in my mind, and Avant, while better than Thrash, is not as good as Curtis or Baskett.

All those Cowboys suck.

Giants had the best draft of the division that year.

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

We should all just "stay medium" as you can see from previous posts all teams have draft busts (moroney and chad jackson for the patriots even). it is not as bad as la crapola says, who says DT11 doesn't pick it up this year? Evevyone thought roddy white was a bust, now look at him.

i am glad i bought my season tixs last year (after putting my name on the list in 1999).

i live in baltimore and ravens fans thought they would be 5-11, pundits never know. who the hell would have thought the cards would be in the SB?

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 27, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

p1, I believe pat watkins is a safety.

Dallas ended up with 1 starter of that group, while the Redskins ended up with 3, Rocky Mac, Monty/Gholston and at the beginning of the year Reed D. was starting as well.

I think the team did better than dallas did.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Grade the rest of the NFC East on their drafts three years out:

Giants
Mathias Kawinuka
Sinorice Moss
Gerris Wilkinson
Barry Cofield
Guy Whimper
Charlie Peprah
Gerrick MacPhearson

Dallas
Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Jason Hatcher
Skyler Green
Pat Watkins
Montavious Stanley
Pat McQuistan
E.J. Whitley

Philly
Broderick Bunkley
Winston Justice
Chris Gocong
Max Jean-Gilles
Jason Avant
Jeremy Bloom
Omar Gaither
LaJuan Ramsey

[First person who says that the Skins did no worse than Dallas gets a stern glower coming his/her way.]


Excuse me but half of Dallas' picks were in rounds 1-4. All of ours except for Rocky Mac (2nd rd) were 4th round or lower. Reed(5th), Monty(6th), Kili Lefotu(6th), Golston(7th), Kevin Simon (7th).

I'd rather reach on a better crop of players, than be stuck trying to find diamonds in the rough at the bottom of the draft. So yeah we were worse.
Why were the skins in this position anyway? Thanks Joe, Dan and Vinny!

Posted by: Predator48 | January 27, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Know why? The record is consistently average, meaning that most of the players are average overall.

If Golston is a B+, I damn near shudder to think what would you give Andre Carter - *put your hand down, psps.*

Posted by: RedDMV

----

You knew I was going to respond.

Even if you're judging it purely based on performance, you only think 3 players on the #4 ranked defense deserve higher than a C+?

Man, that's harsh. I'd love to see what you think this defense would look like with some true players.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

p1, carp was a 1st round pick, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't start, and didn't Fasano get traded to Miami last year?? Other than Watkins, I'm not sure any of those guys contribute to the team.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Wait a minute,BG. Just because a draft pick is not with your team doesn't make him a bad pick. If someone is traded, another team saw value there, and traded someone for him. That makes it a good pick in my mind.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 27, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

By the way, if they evaluated ALL personnel, what grade did Vinny get?

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | January 27, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

sween -- Doughty was the BEST redskin to wear #37 this year.
As a 6th rounder, you expect solid ST player, good backup at his position. He's a justaguy, and a 'D' is a harsh grade for that.
If he plays another year as a skin (not something I'd be willing to bet on), I'll give him a B. Otherwise, he was a good value for the pick -- C. If you can find another 6th rounder from that class that would've guaranteed us the playoffs, I'm all ears. Particularly if that font of draft wisdom in Balmer got The Player.

Posted by: daggar | January 27, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Indeed sween, I see where you're coming from.

LOL, well none of us will give the same grade to these players, we all grade based on different criteria.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

fried, the pukes used a 2nd on fasano, and then traded him for a 6th, I believe. I don't think this is making good use of that pick....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me but half of Dallas' picks were in rounds 1-4. All of ours except for Rocky Mac (2nd rd) were 4th round or lower. Reed(5th), Monty(6th), Kili Lefotu(6th), Golston(7th), Kevin Simon (7th).

I'd rather reach on a better crop of players, than be stuck trying to find diamonds in the rough at the bottom of the draft. So yeah we were worse.
Why were the skins in this position anyway? Thanks Joe, Dan and Vinny!

Posted by: Predator48 | January 27, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

What kind of backasswards reasoning is this?

We hit on more players in lower rounds, and Dallas hit on fewer players in the top rounds, and WE had a worse draft????

Why we got in that position to begin with is irrelevant to the evaluation...

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

fried, the pukes used a 2nd on fasano, and then traded him for a 6th, I believe. I don't think this is making good use of that pick....

He was Parcell's guy. What could they have expected to get for him plus they had Witten.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

fried, the pukes used a 2nd on fasano, and then traded him for a 6th, I believe. I don't think this is making good use of that pick....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse
You're right there. Drafting a 2nd, getting a 6th is no bargain. But it beats giving a 2nd and a 6th for one year's use of JT.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 27, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"Why we got in that position to begin with is irrelevant to the evaluation...

Posted by: p1funk"

Is it?

Are you evaluating who is the better judge of talent or who had the better draft?

If you're judging the draft, how a team values its draft pick absolutely factors into the evaluations.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

p1, TheTurd is currently hiding behind his mother's Belle southern style easter dress.

he's a beyotch, always has, always will.
------------------------


psps, if this team had some real players, I'd give the best player no higher than a soild A. to me no one is perfect, no one. everyone has holes in their game. Based on their deficiencies, and what they bring to the position overall and how important it is as it pertains to their position is how I grade players.

If that makes any sense, but most criteria for grading usually doesn't.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

#13 overall ... what to expect. I looked at picks 11-15 between 2005-2008

2005, 2006, 2007, 2008

11 demarcus ware, Jay Cutler, Patrick Willis, Leodis McKelvin
12 Shawne Merriman, H Ngata, Marshwan Lynch, Ryan Clady
13 Jamaal Brown, Kamerion Wimbley, Adam Carriker, Jonathan Stewart
14 Thomas Davis, brod bunkley, Darelle Revis, Chris Williams
15 Derrick O Johnson, Tye Hill, Lawrence Timmons, Brandon Albert

Lots of impact guys in this group. Merriman, Ngata, Clady, ware, Willis are all guys at our 'need' positions (line or LB) that are studs. Revis and Culter are both going to Pro Bowl this year.

Conclusion: history says there is a good chance of getting an impact player

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

lol @ Georgia Tech nerds
seriously

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 3:11 PM

Truth,

Work with me here, dude. Please help me help you.

Everyone up here thinks you're a joke because of your Georgia Bulldog fixation. Whereas everyone thinks that me and scamp are really cool because we're associated with Georgia Tech.

I'm throwing you a lifeline. Be a 'Ramblin 'Reck and feel the love, man. It's your only hope.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Well, history once again repeats its self. Instead of signing big name free agents. The owner decides to give over the hill players on his team big raises. So, why complaint about the salary cap, when the owner doesn't care about it. Throws away draft choices for over the hill players. This is sad. We need someone to put a zipper on his wallet or its going to be the same every year as long as he owns this team.. Spend the money on a GM, Please.................

Posted by: eztiger44 | January 27, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Conclusion: history says there is a good chance of getting an impact player

Posted by: zcezcest1

---

Way to jinx it...

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

z, no doubt historically, there have been players to be had at the #13 spot....I just hope that they don't stand pat, and do nothing....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Are you evaluating who is the better judge of talent or who had the better draft?

If you're judging the draft, how a team values its draft pick absolutely factors into the evaluations.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

The way I understood the question is that we were being asked to determine who had the better draft from 3 years ago.

I understand this to mean that we are to evaluate that draft in a vacuum: assess it as a one-off event based on how those picks are now contributing to the teams that picked them.

I believe this is a natural way to think about the question. Based on that, there is no doubt in my mind that the Skins had a better draft.

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

I'm hopeful. The Skins have done fairly well with their first round picks during the Snyder era.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Skins need an impact guy from this draft. #13 pick gives you a good shot at it. Though look at the 8 guys picked at 11 or 12 in the past 4 years. Wow!!! Major impact guys.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Let me answer questions from my fan club (red and that other guy)


1) I grew up a Dawg fan just as I grew up a Redskin fan. No, I never attended UGA, but I never attending University of Washington Redskins either.

2) I went to school at College of Charleston.

3) I also cheer for Charlotte Bobcats, Atlanta Braves, and that's about it.

4) Yall done crying?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Man, that's harsh. I'd love to see what you think this defense would look like with some true players.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 3:32 PM

I know it must be confusing how I would give most of the higher grades (B or higher) to those on offense - Moss, Cooley, Portis, Samuels, Sellars (forgot about him earlier), and have that same sentiment for only Fletcher, Landry, and Springs.

I'm about to confuse you a little more...

The defense, for a few years now, have always played solid as a group. That is why they're always one of the better defenses in the league, the offense plays well individually (some of that is just by the nature of an offensive player - one ball) so they're consistently in the bottom half.

Running game - individual task. One guy blocks one guy (most of the time); one guy running with the ball.

Passing game - team effort. one guy may have to chip block then go out for the pass; one OL may have to take on two D players trying to get to the QB; QB throws the ball; WR has to catch the ball - sometimes fight for it.

What I'm saying is that there are more variables in the passing game than the running game. more of a team effort in passing. the 'skins don't do well collectively as an offense because they don't play well as a unit - the defesne does which is why they're the better part of the team.

Good grief, I hope that made sense... lol

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

QUESTION for talent evaluator

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/jgm1976/lumpkin.jpg


THAT'S the question

I'll wait patiently for an answer

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Depressing. If its true Rhinehart sucks and they are planning to trot out the same old has beens next year, there is no point in reworking any contracts or resigning DeAngelo Hall. I have seen the way he acts on 2 separate losing teams. May as well get ready for 5-11 or worse. The fact that Vinny Ceratto is still employed is a joke.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | January 27, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Is anyone concerned about the Dan Reeves to the cowboys story? He was pretty bright for a former cowboy.

Posted by: will_ga | January 27, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

The Skins are mediocre because the team is not run like a business. A business would have fired all the people responsible for the horrible draft and FA signings of the last 5+ years, starting with Vinny.

It's ironic: Snyder made millions in the telecom business but when it comes to running the "Redskins" business, he treats it like his personal toy.

If Snyder won't fire Vinny and hire a qualified GM, then we fans owe it to the team to not buy tickets, not buy merchandise and stick it to Snyder in the one place he still has any sense: the wallet.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | January 27, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, until I see it, I refuse to believe that Snyder won't use all of his available cap space......use it wisely is a totally different question.....but I still think there will be one big signing (maybe that's Hall) and 4 or 5 other signings. I don't buy the sign nobody and just make four picks in a strong draft. You gotta believe 6-2 makes Danny believe he one piece away from being a contender.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 27, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

The NFL will soon have a new Buzz Word: “Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE).”

EXCERPT from CNN ARTICLE:

“CTE has thus far been found in the brains of five out of five former NFL players. On Tuesday afternoon, researchers at the CSTE will release study results from the sixth NFL player exhibiting the same kind of damage….”

THE LINK: (Well worth reading)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/26/athlete.brains/index.html?eref=rss_us


Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Reeves is going to SanFran to coach Vick in a year

BOOK IT

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

If this commentary is on-target, this franchise is shot for the next 2-3 years.

I applaud the team's willingness to not prorate deals and sign major free agents to tie up future cap dollars, but the impression I get here is that the team rather than making major moves to reduce the payroll for 2009 and acquire a top pick in the draft NEXT year is not on the table.

Attempting to resign Jason Taylor, Pete Kendall and Shawn Springs to restructured deals for 2009 to me only seems to delay the inevitable.

If this team is going to finish 7-9 or 6-10 WITH these veteran players, we might as well finish 3-13 WITHOUT them and set ourselves up for a draft and offseason to remember in 2010.

The reality of their predicament is now apparent to all, but again I think there is some still resistance to NAMING it publicly and admitting to the fan base that a major rebuilding program is required.

Posted by: leopard09 | January 27, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Let me answer questions from my fan club (red and that other guy)


1) I grew up a Dawg fan just as I grew up a Redskin fan. No, I never attended UGA, but I never attending University of Washington Redskins either.

2) I went to school at College of Charleston.

3) I also cheer for Charlotte Bobcats, Atlanta Braves, and that's about it.

4) Yall done crying?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 4:06 PM

Oh that's cute, "University of Washington Redskins".

*clapping hands*

Now let me explain why you're an idiot. Most people will agree with me that its total d-baggery to root for a team you have no ties to, can you do it? Sure, but be prepared to get mocked and ridiculed for doing so.

It's like me rooting for Russia or the Green Bay Packers. I've never lived in Wisconsin, never thought about living there, never even been there. So, why would I root for the Packers, other than to be a front runner?

Truthfully or turdfully, I think you don't like the Bobcats (It'll dispell mt whole front runner theory), I think you're a Indiana Pacers or NY Knicks fan.

You're a front running d-bag. Add that to the list of your superlatives, dummy.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Just to be clear, I grade on a sliding scale. Anything else would be stupid. I think the point you guys are missing is that we're NOT evaluating Horton the player, we're evaluating Horton the draft pick. If Horton played exactly the way he did, but we drafted him in the first round, hell, he's a D. But drafted in the 7th? That's an A.

If you draft a guy in the first round and he can't play, you've wasted an enormously valuable pick and a lot of money. If you draft a guy in the 7th and he starts, you've stolen something. So you can't grade them the same way.

And on another note: if you draft three receivers in the second round -- drafting for need (NOT NOT NOT BPA, as Vinny claims) by only taking big receivers to meet that need -- and none of them do jack except run up medical bills, that's an F. Probably an F-. Because, seriously, if you've got three picks in the second round and you can't find one guy who can help your team, you're probably an idiot.

Hope that clears things up.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | January 27, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

There was a comment earlier regarding the Cardinals philosophy of using FA only to fill immediate/glaring needs, and using the draft to build depth for the future.

While the Cards have a long way to go to prove themselves a team worth emulating, this two-pronged approach seems reasonable, as long as the FA signings are young guys and don't hamstring your cap. As was also mentioned earlier, the "inside info" in JLCs post may be a smoke-screen from the FO so as not to tip our hand regarding FA interests.

Regardless, I agree that there will be, and should be, no "major" FA signing (i.e. Gross, Peppers, Suggs) this year. After making some needed cuts (Springs, Washington, Taylor), we should have some cap space to work with, even after resigning D. Hall to a reasonable contract.

We still won't be able to go on a crazy spending spree as in years past, but we should be able to add 1 or 2 starters. The trick will be convincing up and coming young guys that they want to come play here, without having to throw "market setting" contracts at them in order to do so.

If we can only get one significant FA this year to fill a starting spot, my first choice would be Vernon Carey (OT) from Miami. It's likely he will re-sign with the Fins, but we should at least make a run at him - he will command a significant contract, but not at the Jordan Gross level. He could start immediately at RT this season in place of Jansen, and eventually can shift over to LT when Samuels hangs it up.

If we can't get him, then Karlos Dansby (OLB) would be next on my list, to replace Washington - again, he will require a significant financial commitment, but not at the Suggs/Peppers level. He is another one that may prefer to stay with his current team (Arizona) if no one makes him an offer he can't refuse.

If neither of those guys are possible, then I'd say go after Rob Bironas (kicker) as our only top-shelf free agent, knowing we would at least have significantly improved one critical position on the roster with a new starter. Even a large FA contract for a kicker is relatively small compared to the other positions mentioned above.

Then we are left to use the draft (as best we can) to address DL and OL depth, trading back for extra picks whenever possible. We can't upgrade all our positions of need in one off-season, but at least these changes would be a step in the right direction.

Posted by: PDXskin | January 27, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

+++why he gots to be a monkey tho?

Posted by: RedDMV+++

Don't read too much into it.

"Howler monkey" is a funny term. And I like the visual of a HM playing Chess with Beans.

Could have gone with a K work but "Yak" wouldn't have worked in context.

Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Recruiting is heating up for Redskins former D-Coordinator Gregg Williams' son, Chase Williams. Schools like Missouri, Virginia Tech, Southern Cal, Alabama and Florida have shown interest. Jerry Gray's son, Jeremy Gray, is also receiving D-I interest.

Read more at my blog here:

http://loudounextra.washingtonpost.com/blogs/high-school-sports-scene/2009/jan/27/recruiting-notes/

Posted by: P-Ten | January 27, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Danny is 1 piece from a contender. But that piece is Fitzgerald, Willis or Polumalu. Or ST21. And that assumes the guys are healthy ... which isn't the case on an aging team.

As much as our team struggled down the stretch, it wasn't a bad team. It was a decent team with a tough schedule and too many injuries.

Ravens, Pitts, philly, dal, nyg ... even the weaker teams played better at the end of the year (Sea, Cin, SF)

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Mike O'Meara did a great interview with Ol'Joe T. Love or hate Joe, you got to admit that the guy knows his stuff, it should be up on their site later today, he ends with a great 1 minute breakdown of the skins, draft for need and agrees with everything we all repeat every day... Oh and get a prostate check..

Posted by: alex35332 | January 27, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: leopard09 | January 27, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

While most everyone I think agrees with the sentiment of your post, its not that simple this year, you just can't cut or trade all of Jansen, Thomas, Samuels, Portis, Moss, Springs, Washington, Griffen, Taylor, or Cooley and rebuild cause of the cap implications or the fact that nobody wants the same contract we're trying to get rid of. If the collective bargaining agreement extends, its a 3 year shedding of all those contracts, if 2010 is uncapped that's the year we dump them all in one form or another. Even CP and Moss who probably don't have that many productive seasons left and certainly not at their price tags.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 27, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Let me answer questions from my fan club (red and that other guy)


1) I grew up a Dawg fan just as I grew up a Redskin fan. No, I never attended UGA, but I never attending University of Washington Redskins either.

2) I went to school at College of Charleston.

3) I also cheer for Charlotte Bobcats, Atlanta Braves, and that's about it.

4) Yall done crying?

+++++++++++++++++

So, I was basically right in my assessment of you.

And yes, for now I am done calling you out...

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

"Now let me explain why you're an idiot. Most people will agree with me that its total d-baggery to root for a team you have no ties to, can you do it? Sure, but be prepared to get mocked and ridiculed for doing so.

It's like me rooting for Russia or the Green Bay Packers. I've never lived in Wisconsin, never thought about living there, never even been there. So, why would I root for the Packers, other than to be a front runner?

Truthfully or turdfully, I think you don't like the Bobcats (It'll dispell mt whole front runner theory), I think you're a Indiana Pacers or NY Knicks fan.

You're a front running d-bag. Add that to the list of your superlatives, dummy.

Posted by: RedDMV "

I actually began to respond to this then realized how lame I was for even thinking for a half second that your opinion mattered.

Which, in turn, makes you lame for obsessing over which teams I do and do not like.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

After rereading and Reading LH's comments here is my conclusions......

JLaC pumped up the comments that went with his thinkings and downplayed and/or is not fully reporting the statements that go against what he believes...........

I need to be told at what level the sources are to actually believe this........--4th FLOOR

Learn a little about journalism before you lecture on it, okay? They are called “sources” because they are NOT specifically identified. The Post requires a source and a confirmation. The sources were identified as Vinny, the coaches and the scouts. Name your sources against their will, you burn them.

You made three-four posts all saying the same thing: "I dont' buy it." What are YOUR sources? What are you basing YOUR claims on?

Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Cork,

Despite my many comments of rage, hate, and bitterness, I'm truly not the "angry black guy".

I've heard it all anyway, even the most common used racial slur designated for blacks doesn't bother me at all. It's in the music I listen to and the movies I watch (Seen office space for the first time the other day, found it hilarious they played a song with "N*g**r" in it - TWICE in the background and it wasn't but only one black face in the whole movie, if that. Still was a good movie though)

I tend not to use the term, at least out in public. I HATE TO HEAR THAT WORD USED IN PUBLIC LOUDLY , it makes me wanna disappear or feel like Chris Rock in "I think I love My Wife" when he was in the elevator.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

The 2009 Redskins could be next years version of the 2008 Lions. Ok, maybe not that bad, but who knows. This team is soooooooo old. And next year they will be even a year older. And for those who complained about Gibbs II offense, this years was way worse. At least Gibb's team scored over 30 points every once in a while. Maybe this team getting real bad is what it needs, even though it would be painful to see. Because they are a team that is stuck in being just so-so. They hang around the 7-9 to 9-7 record all the time. And when they are lucky enough to squeeze into the playoffs, they are usually one and done. They just need to keep thier draft picks and get more if they can and then of course make smart picks. Probably got to get rid of Vinny to do that, but I don't see that happening.

Posted by: hailtotheskinsalways | January 27, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

What kind of backasswards reasoning is this?

We hit on more players in lower rounds, and Dallas hit on fewer players in the top rounds, and WE had a worse draft????

Why we got in that position to begin with is irrelevant to the evaluation...

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 3:41 PM

How we got in that position is the whole point, period. And thoses "hits" you say, haven't turned out to be stars by any stretch.

Aren't we still talking about drafting D-line when we got 2 so called "hits" in that draft? Reed Doughty, don't make me freakin laugh. Rocky was a good pick until his knees started going bad.

I'm trying to understand just what your argument is. Because clearly when I look at the 2 teams now, one has an abundance of talent, the other doesn't.

Posted by: Predator48 | January 27, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

I actually began to respond to this then realized how lame I was for even thinking for a half second that your opinion mattered.

Which, in turn, makes you lame for obsessing over which teams I do and do not like.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009 4:31 PM

I think this means that you know that I'm right, you feel ashamed about me putting you on blast on a public forum, and now you wanna ball up in the fetal and cry yourself to sleep, you little sissy girly boy.

To quote the homie p1: "So, I was basically right in my assessment of you.

And yes, for now I am done calling you out...

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2009 4:29 PM"

Nuff said, you jackass. Have a nice evening.


Posted by: RedDMV | January 27, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Reeves is going to SanFran to coach Vick in a year

BOOK IT

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 27, 2009

No way. Vicks going to Seattle where he and Jimmy can get the band back together.

Posted by: will_ga | January 27, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

I think we ought to sign Vick, we already are insensitive to the native americans we might as well be insensitive to animals and animal lovers too....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 27, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

such as....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 27, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

"I think we ought to sign Vick, we already are insensitive to the native americans we might as well be insensitive to animals and animal lovers too...."

WOW....there you go...post of the day....what about signing OJ, to back up portis, we "might as well be insenitive to murderers as well", and Rae Carruth to help out DThomas and MKelly.

were you trying to convince us that you've got an I.Q. of 48??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Skins fans! what else can you say about our talent evaluators, I can't believe someone actually think J Campbell should not be offered an extension, wow! This same group of fools also think of keeping Griff, Jason, and Springs; did anyone have an idea of what these FO fools smoke or drink? First, this is J Campbell's first year, since every year is a new head coach, consequently a new system to learn; also, look at the line he is playing behind, the grand pas and retirement home bound line. I feel sorry for JC and Portis if this is really the way our FO think. These fools also like to keep Springs and trade Carlos, while Springs is a super corner when healthy, can anyone remember the last time Springs play out a season? These comedians we call talent evaluators actually see C Rhino as incapable of NFL but why draft him? J Taylor is only good at 3-4, why trade for him in a 4-3 system?
Is Dan stupid, blind or deaf not to see that he surrounded himself with morons and "moronicas"? No matter what these fools put on the field next season, I will still love my burgundy and gold, it is just depressing that after long week at work, its finally game day and by the end of the day, my Skins has set me into depression for the whole week again and again and again.

Posted by: abxinc | January 27, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Beantown,

What do you expect out of a guy who calls himself on the Wiki "Angry Old Man Jack"? Anger, hate, biggotry, etc.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

te, what a tool......honestly, how stupid do you have to be to write something like that....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 27, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

"Can someone explain how Vinny Cerrato keeps his job?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009"

He has a framed photo of Snyder's parents prominently displayed on his desk. What other rationale do you need? This is Snidely we are talking about.

Posted by: periculum | January 27, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe someone actually think J Campbell should not be offered an extension, wow!

Posted by: abxinc | January 27, 2009 5:06 PM |

If Jim Zorn were sold on Jason Campbell, they'd already have signed him. Do you think there is anyone else more qualified than Jim Zorn to evaluate Jason Campbell?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

"BG and CL need to get better promotion or get their blog fight game up. You can't get the big bucks fighting on the undercard of Truth vs. RedDMV XXII.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse"

yeah I can't compete Cl/BG is more Mcenroe/Connors while Truth vs RED DMV is more Rowdy Roddy Piper vs Jimmy Supa Fly Snukka...

Being mostly right is a curse i know...we all have crosses to bear....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

how stupid do you have to be to not get that it was a sarcastic joke you tools.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 27, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Nevertheless they can still draft OL straight down the line. They are stuck with Jensen, Thomas, and Samuels because of their contracts for now. That is now true for the others. I don't know why anyone here ever projected Heyer as a starter? He has been playing his role extremely well ... he is the swingman.

Rhinehart did not do well in the latter preseason games. He got destroyed when he played tackle. If he didn't you don't think he would have played above Heyer? Of course he would.

Yes, Vinnie's draft was a complete bust. Erasmus James a bust. If they lose Taylor back to Miami that is a complete bust and 2 draft picks are lost. Vinnie pretty much completely f*?&%% up the team.

And you folks who continue to blame Gibbs because you think he was the GM and in charge. Think again. He probably kept Snyder from really completely screwing the pooch ... but many of the poorer FA decisions, such as Brandon Lloyd were classic Snyder. And you can't see through that? Vinnie was in charge of selecting the lower round picks. Guess what ... they flopped.
Now the higher round picks are like the lower round picks.

That is not to say that every team doesn't have this problem ... the draft is hit or miss ... but when you trade for injured, under motivated players, give mediocre to poor FA's exorbitant money, end up with less than half the draft picks that other teams have and almost the worst salary cap situation. You have created a disaster, a catastrophe.

Its time for sack cloth and ashes. This year, draft OL straight down the line. Keep all future picks. Do not trade any. Try to trade for more without moving down in the draft. Wait for the bonus laden contracts to expire.

That's all you can do.

Posted by: periculum | January 27, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

how stupid do you have to be to not get that it was a sarcastic joke you tools.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 27, 2009 5:21 PM

Angry Old Man Jack -- A joke is something that people laugh at. No one is laughing at your post -- they're laughing at you. You're the joke, Jack.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

4th FLOOR

Learn a little about journalism before you lecture on it, okay? They are called “sources” because they are NOT specifically identified. The Post requires a source and a confirmation. The sources were identified as Vinny, the coaches and the scouts. Name your sources against their will, you burn them.

You made three-four posts all saying the same thing: "I dont' buy it." What are YOUR sources? What are you basing YOUR claims on?

Posted by: TheCork | January 27, 2009 4:37 PM

He also stated once he used a janitor as a source. So there you go...

Sources - Are the worst. Especially in Politics and Schools. There's too many reasons for leaks, and 95% are self serving....


Vinny, Coaches, and Scouts could be so many different people. Def not Vinny. Blache does not like him, which I am sure icludes most of the Defensive coaches. What offensive coach would snitch to JLA? None, prob.

So that leaves some level scout. Is this scout trying to knock Vinny down to move up?

Or did the Scout actually have 2x as much good things to say vs was written and JLA only wrote the negative/WashPo slant stuff?

And we are being told to 'trust' the reporter. Based off what I ask? Woodward and Bernstein?? That was like 40+ years ago...........

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if I believe a lot of the info in this post. I have to think that Zorn (at the very least) and Vinny know they have to put a better product on the field, or they will not be around for the 2010 season. That being said, the starting OL for 2008 cannot return in the same composition for 2009. ALso, the skins must address DT, and OLB this offseason. I think the majority of the cuts we've all discussed on this blog will happen, allowing the skins to sign 3-4 FA.

Posted by: TWISI | January 27, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Reading comprehension....not a strength on RI...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

RI Insider= tool shed. Some tools are well oiled and sharp and some are rusty, dusty, & musty. The trick is knowing who is well lubed and who's gonna require a tetanus shot if you touch em.

Posted by: will_ga | January 27, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Will providing a well reasoned and poetic metaphor! Well played sir!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Being mostly right is a curse i know...we all have crosses to bear....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 5:19 PM

Yes, and a lot of you self-styled know-it-alls really irritated those of us who do!

Had to step away but it appears that there is some spunk back in the blog. I want to take a tiny bit of credit for that ... for demonstrating that DALLAS SUCKS WORSE than we do at drafting guys!

On that Fasano bit about using a second round pick and trading a sixth rounder ... that is GOLD! Parcells valued the guy enough to convince Jerrah to use a second round pick on him ... then when he bolted to Miami, he got to take Fasano with him at a four round discount! That's GOLD, Jerrah, GOLD!

Skrew Dallas.

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

"STEELERS: CLARK IS THE NFL’S HARDEST-HITTING SAFETY
Posted by Aaron Wilson on January 26, 2009, 12:51 p.m.
In the wake of his crushing hit on Baltimore Ravens running back Willis McGahee in the AFC title game that rendered McGahee unconcious with a concussion and severe neck pain, Pittsburgh Steelers safety Ryan Clark insisted that he’s not a dirty player, just an intense one whom teammate Larry Foote called the hardest-hitting safety in the game.

After recovering from a life-threatening illness last year that caused his spleen and gall bladder to be removed, the last thing Clark said he wants to do is hurt someone permanently. McGahee is expected to make a complete recovery for next season after being hospitalized briefly for tests and observation.

“I know what it’s like not to be able to play and almost have football taken away from me,” Clark told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. “I never want to be a guy who takes it away from someone else.”

Clark said he wanted to check on McGahee, who was carted off the field on a stretcher, but was told by team officials that he was too woozy after the violent collision.

“I wasn’t aware of the seriousness of the injury until I was informed about it on the sideline,” Clark said. “It’s scary when you see anyone going down like that. I asked to go back on the field to check on him, but I was told I was in no condition to check on anyone.”

Clark was not fined or penalized for the McGahee hit. He said he has only been fined twice by the NFL in seven seasons, including a $7,500 infraction for a helmet-to-helmet hit on Jacksonville Jaguars wide receiver Matt Jones and $7,500 for hitting the New York Giants’ Tim Carter in 2004.

“There’s a fine line between what’s legal and what’s not,” Clark said. “We know we can’t hit a receiver in a defenseless position. But are we supposed to wait for him to catch the ball and start running with it before we hit him? Or do we try to dislodge the ball any way we can? As a DB, you’re always going to err on the side of trying to dislodge the ball.”

"

Sean Taylor LIVES.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

If Jim Zorn were sold on Jason Campbell, they'd already have signed him. Do you think there is anyone else more qualified than Jim Zorn to evaluate Jason Campbell?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

If that's the case then the next few years will be bleak indeed. Might as well include QB on our list of draft needs. Mark Sanchez anyone?

Posted by: skinswest | January 27, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Sween,

Why stop with Dallas's draft? What about their showing in free agency? Pacman, Terrell Owens? They make Brandon Lloyd and Adam Archuleta look like inspired picks.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Sean Taylor LIVES.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 5:40 PM

Scroll down on the comments on pft Ryan Clark thread ... Sean Taylor gets the best props.

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

If Rhinehart is really that bad, move him to D Tackle, ala Darryl Grant. Maybe he becomes that guy...

Posted by: DaFunBunch | January 27, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Will providing a well reasoned and poetic metaphor! Well played sir!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 5:35 PM

And everyone's thinking "Is he referring to me, TheTruth, or chRis LaRry?"

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Ah, t_e_, I'm not going there only b/c Pac Man actually played and Terrell Owens actually caught balls. The only picks that Brandon Lloyd and Adam Archubingus inspired were in my nose.

Posted by: dcsween | January 27, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 5:26 PM

Maybe I should have read that rant over before I hit the send button.

I meant sports not schools.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 27, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

TO Vinny Cerrato: One reason for the second half 2-6 record is AGE. You have a bunch of old players whose bodies cannot hold up for a full season. This team needs to get younger.Springs, Griffin,Daniels, Washington, Thomas, Jansen, Kendall, etc. are old, old playes get injured easily and more often. Also when they get injured they take longer to heal. This is pretty much common sense, you don't need to be a rocket science to understand this. These guys have consistently been injured the last few seasons without fail. Injured or unable to practice throughout the week. Hopefully our "challenged" FO can infuse the team with some youth in some shape, form, or fashion. One other thing down the stretch this team just "didn't want it" bad enough. When they lost to the Bengals I don't know how they could have looked themselves in the mirror, or collected their paychecks that week without feeling guilty. I don't know how you address that? Is Zorn a good motivator? Who are, or what are the team leaders doing? Why didn't these guys take more pride in their performance down the stretch, at least the ones who were healthy?

Posted by: 72Redskins | January 27, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

"Angry Old Man Jack -- A joke is something that people laugh at. No one is laughing at your post -- they're laughing at you. You're the joke, Jack.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009"

Lighten up Spud. Not everyone has your literary finesse ... the yoke could be on you or scramblebrains.

Posted by: periculum | January 27, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

I loved - loved this result.

Duke --- 85
Maryland --- 44

Dematha HS would easily defeat Maryland.

Prediction:

Boston College -- 83
Maryland -- 62

Maryland will finish with a 15 - 16 record

No NCAA bid

No NIT bid

How can any parent, let their son play for a program like Maryland - with a 10 % graduation rate.

Carolina blue - Carolina WHITE - Go Tar Heels ! - Let's go Tar Heels !

Posted by: hclark1 | January 27, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

When they lost to the Bengals I don't know how they could have looked themselves in the mirror, or collected their paychecks that week without feeling guilty.

Posted by: 72Redskins | January 27, 2009 5:53 PM

Direct deposit. They don't have to go to Mr. Snyder's office and ask for their pay envelope anymore. Besides, union rules require them to take the pay, good week or bad.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

"This team needs to get younger.Springs, Griffin,Daniels, Washington, Thomas, Jansen, Kendall, etc. are old, old playes get injured easily and more often. Also when they get injured they take longer to heal.
Posted by: 72Redskins | January 27, 2009 "

CL is right. Reading comprehension? They can't do as you suggest because they signed these people to "back loaded" contracts that contained guaranteed bonuses. Add in the bonuses to players who are gone like Brandon Lloyd et al creating the dead cap and well you should get the picture.

You learn to live with them ... for now. BUT you learn from your mistakes. That may be why they are reluctant to sign Campbell yet.

There are two things they need. Salary cap relief and many more draft picks, and not at the expense of moving down in the draft.

Posted by: periculum | January 27, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Can't be me, I am always oiled and ready for action...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

NEWS FLASH! The mighty Leigh Torrence is scheduled to appear on WaPo Live tomorrow!

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 27, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

This dilemma that the Skins supposedly face is retarded. If you don't have the cap space to sign some young talent, guess what? Drop Springs and Taylor. Give me a break, if those two players are stifling progression, what the hell are you trying to bring them back for? It shouldn't be a consideration. And to say that a 3rd round pick won't be even close to playing in 2009 is a little presumptuous to say the least. And to say that Heyer is considered nothing more than a backup? This dude has only been in the league for a couple of yrs and snagged a starting spot at the start of last season. Please stop with the doom and gloom, this is ridiculous.

Posted by: ga8085 | January 27, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

I am baffled as to how an inept WR Coach who can't coach or develope a WR out of the many WR's in 5 plus years is being allowed to not only stay on the team but to evaluate the current WR's of which he had to have input for and coach and future WR's is beyond me. I know it's not the big issue but we are as week as our weekest link. Evaluate Hixon please!

I would like to know where La Confra got his info from? A lot of this sounds like all the complaints on the message boards. I would be supprised if Buges really got tough but the statement about the RB Coach wanting a scat back was said on Redskins Nation. So probably somewhat true.

Posted by: VRIEL1 | January 27, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

"This team needs to get younger.Springs"

Example: THEY HAVE NO ONE TO REPLACE SPRINGS. NO ONE, even if they succeed in signing Hall. Unless they draft someone new.

Carlos is not a replacement for Springs. He is a great second corner. As is Hall.

This year its OL. It has to be. The defense can manage for another year with a little help from FA signings.

Posted by: periculum | January 27, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Not everyone has your literary finesse ...

Posted by: periculum | January 27, 2009 5:54 PM

Look, I've been accused of a lot of things up here, and found guilty of a few, but "literary finesse" is an all-time low. Take that back right now and say you're sorry before I hit the "report abuse" button.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Can't be me, I am always oiled and ready for action...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 5:59 PM

We're all tools. Some in here are sharp enough to clear away the debris while others are only good for spreading manure.

Posted by: will_ga | January 27, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Resign Hall, have him and Rogers as your starters. Springs WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STAY HEALTHY!!!!! He WILL have to be replaced some kind of way because if he is still here in 09- HE WON'T BE ON THE FIELD FOR LONG!!

Posted by: 72Redskins | January 27, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Bottom Line - as long as Vinnie is here and The Danny refuses to get a real GM the Skins aren't going anywhere. Does anyone see ANY reasons for things to change?...look at the past and see the future. Dan Snyder might be good at making money but clearly he is a failure at doing what an owner needs to do to create a winning football team. We all know this....for them not to address the line and pick receivers, tight ends, a punter....c'mon, only the most blind see any hope. Dan, let me appeal to your business sense...analyze this like it was a Harvard Business Case Study with the Skins being the failed business and the Steelers or Patriots being the successful case.....Please realize the experiment of managing the team yourself has failed year after year and will continue to do so.....

Posted by: Jim31 | January 27, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

The sons of Jerry Gray and Gregg Williams are being heavily recruited. Paul "PTen" Tenorio has the lowdown on where they might play in college:

http://loudounextra.washingtonpost.com/blogs/high-school-sports-scene/2009/jan/27/recruiting-notes/

Posted by: CindyBoren | January 27, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Impressive jibba-jabba today.

~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 27, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Reading this post makes me want to repeatedly punch Dan Snyder in the face and kick Vinny in the balls

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | January 27, 2009 7:26 PM | Report abuse

I don't buy most of the crap that JLaC peddles but if this is true, and it certainly seems plausible, then I'm bracing for another craapy year mired in mediocrity. Gee, that'll be a change. Bad moves from the past still haunting us today.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 27, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

That may be why they are reluctant to sign Campbell yet.

There are two things they need. Salary cap relief and many more draft picks, and not at the expense of moving down in the draft.

Posted by: periculum | January 27, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I think you are on to something here, peri. VC and JZ know they are in trouble, and have limited resources to field a respectable team. Whatever cap space they can clear will need to be used on second-tier FA's who can beef up the two lines.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 27, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

Reading this post makes me want to repeatedly punch Dan Snyder in the face and kick Vinny in the balls

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | January 27, 2009 7:26 PM

You're an inspiration to us all.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Hamster Nation on Suicide Watch
Film at 11.

Wow, I thought Fubball was supposed to be a fun diversion. The skins are not one player away from dominance, but they were one win away from one of the teams in the super bowl. Blache proved (to my satisfaction) that Grilliams was just another $1M salary that they saved money on. The defense isn't quite elite, but it is effective, and as long as Fletcher stays healthy there is no one that I'd call irreplaceable.
So the difference between 4-12 (where is Dan, anyway?) and 12-4 comes down to whether Zorn can mold JC, the WR corps, and a questionable o-line into something capable of scoring some points. I've seen teams with less capable o-lines score more, I've seen teams with nothing at WR challenge for elite status, and I've seen teams with mid-tier QBs play in the super bowl.

Posted by: daggar | January 27, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

I've seen teams with less capable o-lines score more, I've seen teams with nothing at WR challenge for elite status, and I've seen teams with mid-tier QBs play in the super bowl.

Posted by: daggar | January 27, 2009 8:30 PM |

Oh yeah? Well, we'll let James Taylor have the final word on who's seen what:

Oh, I've seen fire and I've seen rain
I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end
I've seen lonely times when I could not find a friend
But I always thought that I'd see you again

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 27, 2009 8:48 PM | Report abuse

A lotta anger in this blog...

...333 posts are a lot to skim through...

...folks mad like they didn't truly realize the sorry funk the Skins were in...

...folks pissed that the Skins are basically about to spend a few years being the joke team that nobody outside of the DC area likes...

...folks putting away their #56 Arrington jersey as the Ravens 'just up I-95' in Balmer purple and black has the q-back, #56 Ray Ray, d-line, and swagger the Skins fans ape for in their own team...

...folks who hated on Jasno every Monday morning during the last Redskins' season are now angry that his words were pretty much prophetic an they didn't want to listen when he said 6-2 might be a sham-mockery...

...folks annoyed that all the loopy FA signings they hoped to see won't happen as it appears the Skins FO is about to just let the team's roster turnover and shed contracts...

..and turnover and shedding bad contracts might be the only way out of the no way the Skins are in...

The Washington Redskins are about to morph the Detriot Lions. We even drafted too many wide receivers last year to get things started.

All they have to do now is hire Matt Millen.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Is it baseball season yet?

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

..and turnover and shedding bad contracts might be the only way out of the no way the Skins are in...

The Washington Redskins are about to morph the Detriot Lions. We even drafted too many wide receivers last year to get things started.

All they have to do now is hire Matt Millen.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 8:53 PM

You had me until this point. And f baseball. What a God awful boring game.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 27, 2009 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I meant that I agree with that sentence...

..and turnover and shedding bad contracts might be the only way out of the no way the Skins are in...

Just didn't agree with the Lions comparison.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 27, 2009 9:18 PM | Report abuse

All they have to do now is hire Matt Millen.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 8:53 PM
==========================================
I don't think they need to do that, they've already got it covered.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 27, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Another very nice DOOM and GLOOM article from JLC....

I swear....it's a wonder they have won ANY games over the last few years....I mean the way Jason Talks about the Skins.....They are in the worst shape in the league and may tie the Lions record next season.....


Amazing

Posted by: leevi98 | January 27, 2009 9:38 PM | Report abuse

vinny is such a loser

Posted by: rachel216 | January 27, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

scampbell1975

I don't intend to inflame or piss people off.

That's what politics/religion is for.

I made the Skins-Lions comparison as sarcasm is a tool employed by a lazy mind.

I hope the Skins can quickly come out of the situation Jasno's post describes, but I also know it's going to take some time and careful talent management.

And there's the rub: the team has to be rescued by the same crew that caused the franchise to sink in the first place.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

scampbell1975

I don't intend to inflame or piss people off.

That's what politics/religion is for.

I made the Skins-Lions comparison as sarcasm is a tool employed by a lazy mind.

I hope the Skins can quickly come out of the situation Jasno's post describes, but I also know it's going to take some time and careful talent management.

And there's the rub: the team has to be rescued by the same crew that caused the franchise to sink in the first place.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 9:40 PM |

Sarcasm duly noted. And you are completely correct about having to be saved by the same idiots that created the mess. Doesn't seem very likely does it?

Ah yes, politics and religion. 2 topics I swore I wouldn't let myself get tangled up in again on this blog and yet I teetered on that precipice just last night. Yikes!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 27, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

funny TE that made me laugh...

Ugh caps lose in OT!

Skins and RI Jubba: wash-rinse-repeat

I wish beantown posted at night so I could spar.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 9:52 PM | Report abuse

I agree with most of negative evaluations by the coaches, there is improvement needed on this team.

But I find it interesting that JLC didn't report one positive thing discussed by the coaches, or one optimistic option for next season. Was the evaluation unrelentingly grim, or were there some positives that the intrepid half-beat writer, half special commentator neglected to report?

Posted by: cabraman | January 27, 2009 10:05 PM | Report abuse

They are in the worst shape in the league and may tie the Lions record next season.....

Amazing
--------------------------------------------
Teh Leons went 0-16.

The Skins might have to step up their game to match that record.

(+.05 - 17 is hard to imagine, but so is...fill in the danny-eratto blanks.)

P.S. Believe when I say I don't relish in the dropped hot dogs that the Lion's results represent.

We would be better off as a nation if Motor City was doing better, but it's not.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 27, 2009 10:10 PM | Report abuse

I noticed that Corky said that JLaC said his sources included Vinny and Co. He didn't actually say that Cork. He said the process includes Vinny and Co, not that he actually spoke to them He just worded it so that with a cursory glance it would seem that way.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 27, 2009 10:17 PM | Report abuse

What would you expect to be the tone of a player eval meeting after a 2-6 finish? They're not serving lemonade and cookies, you can bet on that.

Plus they're laying off dozens of folks at Redskins Park and FedEx field. That isn't cheering anybody up.

Still, the line play is maybe not as big a concern as this article makes it sound. Sure, they're old and creaky, but they're also mean and skillful. If their QB gets rid of the ball a little sooner, those sack totals will decrease markedly. Of course, the INTs might go up, too.

If the Skins do indeed take a tackle with the first choice, then the remaining three picks should go to other positions. Spread the risk.

So maybe Washington goes 6-10, 5-11 next year. Or maybe the old guys surprise us all, with a little help from Jason Campbell.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 27, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Even if you're judging it purely based on performance, you only think 3 players on the #4 ranked defense deserve higher than a C+?

Man, that's harsh. I'd love to see what you think this defense would look like with some true players.

Posted by: psps23 | January 27, 2009 3:32 PM

Man 3? I would only give Fletcher above a C+ for the whole season. Rogers, maybe. After that, maybe Hall after he got there. Neither of the last 2 consistently earned high marks.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 27, 2009 10:25 PM | Report abuse

scamp, what he said is this:

"Jason "The Mayor" Reid and I spoke to several people involved in the process - it includes Vinny Cerrato, all of his scouts and assistants and the entire coaching staff - to get a handle on what went on."

Seems that statement says one of them spoke to Vinny. Most likely JReid, who seems to have a better relationship with Vinny and interviewed him 1-1 even within the last month. Call me kooky but I believe that much of this comes directly from Vinny and staff, probably via JReid.

Besides the point is the better info comes from leaks further down the foodchain. Vinny has an agenda, rightly so, to push while talking with press.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 10:28 PM | Report abuse

London Fletcher only a c+? OK....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 10:30 PM | Report abuse

John Keim
WarpathInsiders.com
Jan 27, 2009

Here is what John Keim is hearing about the Redskins.

…Don’t be surprised if the Redskins try to make a push to re-sign Pete Kendall. Yes, this would be viewed as an
indictment on Chad Rinehart. We did not hear very good scouting reports on Rinehart from his work in practice.
There are doubts about if he can be a fulltime starter. There’s a concern that he’s too stiff, which would negate
his ability to move at the required level and speed.
…Kendall, from what we hear, wants to stay in Washington

Okay this is second reporter that mntion that Rinehart is not much of a player thus far. He can't even be mentioned in the competition for starting guard? WTF. Kendall a better option...Yikes.

Posted by: TWISI | January 27, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

Keim is obviously a lying H8TR!

I got no beef with the way Kendell plays/ed the last two years. Do we need youth, of course. Are his knees a concern, yes. Was he the best linemen we had on the field last year, yes.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

No CL he uses the word "it" referring to the process, not "they" which would be referring to people spoken with. And I would give Fletcher an A, which is above a C+.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 27, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Kendall's solid. He's not great but he doesn't make a lot of mistakes, except for the 1 major one, and he does his job.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 27, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Like I said reading comprehension not a strength on RI, obviously didnt exclude myself...

I still think Reid prolly talked to vinny...

Thanks for clarification on fletcher...dude might have been team MVP...

see scamp we can have bipartisan agreement!

Posted by: chrislarry | January 27, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Absolutely my friend. Maybe JReid did talk to Vinny. Lotta good that would do. Smoke and mirrors until the finished product.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 27, 2009 10:55 PM | Report abuse

See, you give a team ten years of sustained excellence, and this middle-tier occasional-playoffs stuff makes you want to compare the skins with a team like the lions, who couldn't possibly dream of achieving the heights of adequacy exemplified by the skins.

Posted by: daggar | January 27, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Wow!!!! You go away from RI for a couple of weeks and look what happens. FO, (vinny) wants answers! I believe any of the 300 posters on here today could give him answers!!!! Trade down from 13, get a couple extra picks and keep "Toast" #22 along side with DHall! Springs ship has sailed even at half his salary, which he won't accept anyhow. Love the guy, but we can't pay him for half seasons any longer.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | January 27, 2009 11:02 PM | Report abuse

In the 12/31/08 TWP it was reported that "Cerrato said he thought Campbell, in his second full year as a starter, "made good strides," and he cited Zorn's work with Campbell as one of the best aspects of Zorn's rookie season as a head coach. But when asked if he was comfortable with Campbell as the quarterback of the future in Washington, he was noncommittal.

'I think that Jason will be back,' he said during his press conference. 'He's the starting quarterback, you know? And I think what you do is you just go year to year, and you have to evaluate everything.'

Later, asked specifically whether the club would pursue a contract extension with Campbell -- who would become a restricted free agent after the 2009 season -- Cerrato said, 'Everything's got to be evaluated.' He reiterated that it was too early to answer such long-term questions.

The internal evaluation of the players on the current roster will continue during the next two weeks, Cerrato said. On or about Jan. 15, the entire front-office staff -- including everyone from scouts to athletic trainers to team doctors -- will meet to go over each player individually."

It appears this post is a result of the follow up reporting to the above. It looks like the individual evalution of Campbell confirmed what management already suspected - he's not the guy. How should "He's the starting quarterback... And I think what you do is you just go year to year, and you have to evalute everything" be interpreted? Does that mean there will be a competition for the position?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Does that mean there will be a competition for the position?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 27, 2009 11:03 PM
------------------------------------
Go for it, d00d. I'm sure you will kick Colt's @ss.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 27, 2009 11:19 PM | Report abuse

I've heard Vinny state emphatically that he will never give a "direct quote" or "interview" with "that newspaper" referring to the Post. So most likely the info on this post came from a "media wide" session from Redskins Park - not a sit down with the WaPo alone.

Unless Vinny changed his mind.....or he was not personally there.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 27, 2009 11:26 PM | Report abuse

Who has the site that breaks down this end-of-CBA situation, and what the various scenarios are? Because if it's a guarantee that JC is a restricted FA, then I don't see much downside in waiting. But if there's a chance that he could become a UFA, then it's really dangerous to put a bad taste in his mouth. yes, you might get performance out of his contract year, but he might be looking at it as an audition for his new team.

Posted by: daggar | January 27, 2009 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Hey if we suck like the Lions did last year does that mean in the 2010 un-CAPed year we would get the #1 pick? Wooo Hooo.

0-16 baby. ;)

Posted by: VRIEL1 | January 27, 2009 11:39 PM | Report abuse

We are paying the price of many mistakes simultaneously, all of them the fault of Vinny C.

1) The first is trading draft picks for aging veterans. Trading a 2nd for Jason Taylor, for example, is not just trading a rookie for a vet, but mathematically, 12 years of play versus what looks like one with Taylor. Repeat this scenario once every five years, and you've lost 50 or so man seasons. That is what has been happening with this team since Snyder bought it, hence, we have aging problems at nearly every position.
2) Second problem has been neglecting the lines in favor of flash skill positions. One lineman, Samuels, in the first two rounds since 1999 is absurd. Neither Snyder or Cerrato have played ball at any level and do not seem to understand the importance of the trenches, which is why we are regularly overwhelmed by the likes of Pittsburgh and New York.
3) The third problem is awful scouting and drafting. Three bust receivers in the 2nd round isn't bad luck, but crap drafting. The team knew about Kelly's knee woes and drafted him anyway, while the team knew almost nothing about Davis - had never worked him out or even spoken with him. When you have this level of scouting, you are going to have poor results.
4) The fourth problem is that they are reactionary in their decisions rather than visionary. They have so many holes that it's about plugging them rather than systematically building a winner, as the Patriots have.
5) The fifth is all of this will continue, as there is no accountability between owner and GM. GM does what owner wishes, they pat each other's backs, they live in a bubble world of two in which all dissension and criticism is irrelevant. Until that changes, our personnel department & team will blow.

Posted by: SammyT1 | January 28, 2009 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Ok it is simple

Cut Washington save 4.5 mil
Cut Griffin save 3.5 mil
Cut Daniels save 2.3 mil
Cut Springs save 6 mil
Cut Taylor save 8.5 mil

Do the math: we save a total of around 25 million.

We are around the cap so we will have 20+ million in cap room if we were to cut all those players.

That is enough to get Hall done and sign two or even 3 more quality FAs.

Haynesworth Hall, Sproles? or add suggs also.

Posted by: mikejc80 | January 28, 2009 12:25 AM | Report abuse

wow...looks like an 0-16 season coming. the whole friggin draft was a bust for vinny. "wow just wow". (lisa, lemme stop you from yelling "what about horton?" and say it again THE WHOLE FRIGGIN DRAFT was a bust.)

lh, i don't see a qb competition. you forget that other noskills players on this roster were picked by vinny too. unless they go todd way but i highly doubt they would do that. and colt as an nfl qb is vinny and zorn's wet dream.

hi everybody! sounds like icing tonite. no school woooooooooo hoooooooooo!

Posted by: dealer1 | January 28, 2009 12:37 AM | Report abuse

QB competition... just shoot me.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 28, 2009 1:16 AM | Report abuse

It is obvious this team has so many holes to fill. This team is full of old past their prime players. I have said it all along Vinny must go but, it is not going to happen. Right? So I guess I can predict next season. I see the Redskins going 7-9 and firing Zorn half way through the season. Then Danny will bring in Cowher and fire Vinny. Ticket sales will drop by 2011 and half of the games will be blacked out.

Posted by: bigjofc | January 28, 2009 2:21 AM | Report abuse

It's absurd to think that the Redskins would consider Springs given his inability to stay healthy. Rogers has definitely made strides last season and that warrants keeping him along w/ Hall. I'm disappointed w/ Smoot because he didn't bring that swagger that he had when the Skins drafted him. I'm also disappointed that Cerrato wouldn't give more of a vote of confidence for Campbell. I can't think of any QB that can flourish behind such a porous o-line. I can see Campbell going to some place like Detroit and taking them to the playoffs....(funny how players leave Washington and tend to perform better). You want Jason to play better? Get him a supporting cast that can help him. Get an o-line that plays w/ less estrogen than what the Skins have. Of all the NFC East teams, the Skins have the weakest offensive AND defensive line!!!! Everyone blams Campbell but when Portis gets tackled in the backfield, who's to blame? There's just no push from the o-line and Portis ended up going from 1st in the NFL to 4th. That really pissed me off! It just seemed like the o-line didn't get together and mutually agree to help Portis hit the 2000 yd mark or agree to keep Campbell's jersey clean. The d-line couldn't sack the likes of Kyle Orlovsky when they played the Lions.....the friggin Lions and they gave the Skins a fit. It's sad to watch your favorite team win the games they're projected to lose and lose to bottom dwelling teams that everyone knew they were supposed to win. Pretty much every game was an azz clincher! I expect a defense to be suffocating but the Skins play a "bend but don't break" kinda game. They don't play like they'd kill their own teammate if they got in the way but they should. I certainly hope the Skins don't have another poor season because when you live in south TX and you're surrounded by Cowgirl fans, losing even 1 game is like losing every game of the season.

Posted by: charronegro1971 | January 28, 2009 2:23 AM | Report abuse

Again, I think you will see them release their "Mike" defensive tackle Griffin before they surrender their top cover corner. When Spring's plays he is still one of the best if not the best. Champ Bailey has now suffered enough injury where, surprisingly enough, he may not be as good.

I think that unless Taylor accepts a cut in salary he is gone. Washington sounds like he is gone. Daniels is gone. So, you are going to only end up saving 6 million.

Now you need a replacement for Washington, Daniels, (that was Taylor), and possibly Griffin. AND AN ENTIRE OFFENSIVE LINE. They really were that bad.

You only have 4 draft picks. Even with those savings the new bonuses kick in offsetting those savings.

Who do you call?
Ghost Busters or Tobor the Eighth Man?

You draft OL. You go for second tier FA's as someone suggested because they will be more likely to work hard and possibly even be grateful for the chance to play in Washington.
NOT SUGGS. Maybe Bart Scott.

Rebuild piece-by-piece carefully and methodically mostly through the draft.

Posted by: periculum | January 28, 2009 5:16 AM | Report abuse

Rebuild piece-by-piece carefully and methodically mostly through the draft.

Posted by: periculum | January 28, 2009 5:16 AM

Let' see. Was there anyone, anywhere who was arguing the opposite -- that we should rebuild all at one, carelessly, haphazardly, and through free agency?

If so, I'd like them to step up and explain their logic, because I'm completely won over by Mr. Perky's reasoning. "Piece-by-piece carefully and methodically" seems like the way to go.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 28, 2009 7:09 AM | Report abuse

This is so DEPRESSING...first the state of the nation's economy and now basically when all the fluff is taken. We're really going to get the same out middle of the pack, let me tease our fans into thinking we have a chance at the playoffs,team. Maybe Dan will sell the team and the new owner will keep them in the DC/MD/Va. area then get rid of Cerrato and hire real football knowledgeable people who will know how to scout/draft and real free agents that will fit into the team and play 100% every down. We've know we need more O-Line and D-Line help for years...but noooo we go after the flashy names and use-to-be players. Jason Taylor was a real stud but in the Dolphins 3-4 system. Some guys are great in a certain scheme. Some guys were good. Then we blow it in the draft or lie to ourselves in free agency. I guess we are who we are!! That's depressing!!!!

Posted by: anointedebony | January 28, 2009 7:27 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Dan will sell the team and the new owner will keep them in the DC/MD/Va. area then get rid of Cerrato and hire real football knowledgeable people who will know how to scout/draft and real free agents that will fit into the team and play 100% every down. We've know we need more O-Line and D-Line help for years...but noooo we go after the flashy names and use-to-be players. Jason Taylor was a real stud but in the Dolphins 3-4 system. Some guys are great in a certain scheme. Some guys were good. Then we blow it in the draft or lie to ourselves in free agency. I guess we are who we are!! That's depressing!!!!

Posted by: anointedebony | January 28, 2009 7:27 AM |

This will happen about the same time that Pigs grow wings and fly.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 28, 2009 7:41 AM | Report abuse

from SI.COM

What a strange sight it was to see Leinart just standing amidst the media day hordes on the cramped sideline, no podium or microphone for him, no name placard to tell you who he was. Not far away at all, Arizona punter Ben Graham, who wasn't even on the Cardinals in September, was given his own platform riser, with a name card and a mike. Go figure.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Going out a limb here: Zorn is fired after next season and Russ Grimm is hired, he brings Leinart with him and we win 8 superbowls in a row.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 28, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Going out a limb here: Zorn is fired after next season and Russ Grimm is hired, he brings Leinart with him and we win 8 superbowls in a row.

Posted by: Original_etrod

Put the bottle down. I would take Grimm but leave Leinart where he is.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Is Leinart bringing his hot-tub?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Put the bottle down. I would take Grimm but leave Leinart where he is.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 8:32 AM | Report abuse

a bottle wasn't strong enough for that kind of statment. It required a pipe.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 28, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

QB competition... just shoot me.

Posted by: NateinthePDX

Yep. With about 13 holes to fill in a sinking boat why would we want to get the axe out and create one more leak? If we jettison Campbell we will have to initiate another circus of either bringing in 33 year old non starting quarterbacks or spending our highest draft choice(s) again on another rookie. Then again, count the the number of years it takes to learn our non-offense and you see why this team is on a permanent decline. Campbell is at least a decent and improving quarterback. You can not say that about most other positions on this team.

Posted by: driley | January 28, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

I like your limb etrod...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 28, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Seriously....did you guys really think JLC would have anything POSITIVE to report??? Seriously???

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 28, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

I like your limb etrod...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 28, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse


uhhhh, thanks?

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 28, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

not that limb etrod, dam man outta the gutter!!

yeah positives....um...lets see...under here? no.....over there...no? Where did I put those positives? I know they are here somewhere....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 28, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

not that limb etrod, dam man outta the gutter!!

yeah positives....um...lets see...under here? no.....over there...no? Where did I put those positives? I know they are here somewhere....

Posted by: chrislarry

Knowing you CL you put them in the baby pamper by mistake.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

The Dolphins last week again asked the Cowboys if they're interested in John Beck (there was no definitive answer) and made clear the third-string quarterback is available.

Miami Herald

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

jm, thanks, phins spent a 2nd round pick on him didn't they?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

We hear the rumor that the Seahawks could be interested in Bengals free-agent WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh might have some merit. Houshmandzadeh played his college ball at nearby Oregon State, and word is the team wants to avoid having to depend so much on unproven youngsters such as Ben Obomanu, Logan Payne and Courtney Taylor for another season.

profootballweekly.com


JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

jm bringing his A game today, but all things considered, I want no part of housh. Someone mentioned above something about Bart Scott, I saw something about him on Walter football last night. I was unaware that he's in his late 20's, 29 at the start of next season. He, like Gross, and Peppers, just seems like they're too old to be throwing money at.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/27/simeon-rice-becomes-latest-player-to-pile-on-jon-gruden/

I can see the same thing being said about Zorn if he keeps up with calling players out in the media.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Good story from Skins.com on Clark. All of you who ready to let the rookies go need to remember it takes time.

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Clark_s_Story_Worth_Remembering_31546.jsp

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Cant live in the past with clark. Classic Skinsmistake.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 28, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the damning post JLC. Just another reminder that this team will stay mediocre for the foreseeable future. It's too bad it's going to take a Lions-esque plummet to rock bottom to get rid of Vinny...I'll take 2-14 if it means the end of this regime!

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 28, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Cant live in the past with clark. Classic Skinsmistake.

Posted by: alex35332

Alex I am not saying we should live in the past but learn from it. We need to hold fast on Rogers, JC, Kelly, Thomas, and the rest of the rookies.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

The more I think about it, it seems to me the Skins have to get a 2nd round pick back this year. They just have to come out with a young OL (OT,orC/G)and a DT early in this draft. Trading back is obviously the best case for them. However, I am really starting to get the sense that they will trade 2010's #1 to get in position to acquire 2 players early in this draft.

Posted by: TWISI | January 28, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

well of course JM220, I mean learning from your mistakes is a very good thing for all of us to do. I hope we do it.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 28, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

We will find out draft day.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 28, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

twisi, I can't see that happening, trading next years picks...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

TWISI I hope you are wrong. If they are not able to trade back then they just need to roll with what they have. Be wise with the 4 picks for this year and don't trade away any picks for players.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

The Dolphins last week again asked the Cowboys if they're interested in John Beck (there was no definitive answer) and made clear the third-string quarterback is available.

Miami Herald

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

jm, thanks, phins spent a 2nd round pick on him didn't they?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

You guys don't want Beck, he's Colt with a bigger arm. I think we're looking to move him on because Parcells is looking for a potential replacement for Chad. It depends on if he thinks we're close with the rest of the team - if yes, then new QB. If no, then stand pat with Chad for another year while the rest develops.

Now maybe Jason Campbell for Beck? THAT would be a trade!

I'm surprised at the whole JC thing; I was always taught in business that "a decision not to hire is a decision to fire" meaning that if you wouldn't hire the guy again given the opportunity you're really saying he should be gone.

Sure JC's not top 5, maybe not even top 10 right now, but then there that's the same for most of the starting QBs in the NFL and it doesn't end the season for all those teams!

Posted by: Redcoat | January 28, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Looks like I should've taken advantage of that unscheduled leave policy - it's slow today; on the blog and at work. At least the traffic coming in was stuff you can only dream of under normal circumstances.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 28, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

rc, good to hear from you, how goes your business??

So was it a second round pick on beck??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Cerrato was looking for reasons for the team's 2-6 finish
______
Is he BLIND!! I reason is because defenses ADJUST. And what defenses saw was Campbell could not beat them when they blitzed. Everyone wants to blame the OL, and yeah there is room for improvement, but when the defense rushes 7 or 8 guys the line can't block them all! It's up to the QB to read the coverage and BURN the defense when they blitz.. Campbell can't do that.. Only good news here is the Skins are NOT giving Campbell along term contract

Posted by: sovine08 | January 28, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Business goes 'okay' Greg, I'm actually billable (and mostly working) as we speak!

And yes, it was a second on Beck. He's got all the fundmentals of a good QB but is probably too skittish to make it in the NFL. A shame.

Posted by: Redcoat | January 28, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

but when the defense rushes 7 or 8 guys the line can't block them all! It's up to the QB to read the coverage and BURN the defense when they blitz.
sovine08

So I guess when teams rush 3 or 4 guys and our line couldn't block that is JC fault as well.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

good to hear rc...if things start to go south for you, please consider my offer to fund your company with bonus points.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Jason, your article depresses me even more. After reading this I can't see the Redskins competing for the divison for a couple of years. Both Lines SUCK! With that being said, your article indicates that many will be back due to cap concerns and the lack of drafts. If this is true the Redskins will be mired into another 8-8 or less season next season and may take a few more years should the Skins braintrust finally use the draft to bring in young talent. I sure hope I'm wrong but I don't see the Skins winning big for a coule of seasons. We also do need a good kicker and punter. Needs are everywhere, and they won't be fixed in one season. I just wonder if Zorn will be a casualty of the free spending past of Danny Boy. I see his revenues continue to shrink as the skins continue to disappoint. Hate to be pessimistic but the proof has been in the pudding.

Posted by: rpick1 | January 28, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

jm, exactly, hard to check down to your 2nd, and 3rd options, when you're looking out the ear-hole in your helmet....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Greg, it's a kind offer and I'll keep it in mind. How is everyone else out there doing amid the economic turmoil?

As an itinerant marketing guy I've managed to find some projects helping companies grow market share (at their competitors expense of course) but other than that it's just plain ugly out there.

Everyone else doing okay?

Posted by: Redcoat | January 28, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

jm, exactly, hard to check down to your 2nd, and 3rd options, when you're looking out the ear-hole in your helmet....

Posted by: BeantownGreg

B don’t forget that it’s JC fault when CP was avoiding people in the backfield and not the O line. I mean really people need to get a clue. Could JC have played better? Yes but to say that he is a major problem is crazy. These same people will be the same ones complaining if he leaves and do well with another team.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Don't worry Redcoat. The Skins love to waste 2nd round picks so you are in good company with the Fins Beck pick. Is Parcells not high on Chad Henne? Thats another 2nd rounder and figured he would be Pennington's eventual replacement.

Beantown - were you serious you couldn't see us trading next years picks? That is all we ever do. Ceratto knows he is in trouble if we tank this year. I don't want them to but will I be shocked if they do? HELL NO.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | January 28, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Hey RC. Things are good on this end other than the snow. Summer where are you?

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

rc, doing well, thanks. I'm employed, so really what can I complain about. Snow sucks, but it is what it is, what can I do other than shovel, and quit my griping...

jlt, I think/hope that they realize that mortgaging the future is not going to help this team. Focus on THIS DRAFT. Maximize the number of picks you can get without using any from 2010.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

JLaT, I think Parcells is unsure about Henne.

We had an open competition at training camp last year with Beck, Henne and Josh McCown (remember him?) and NONE of them impressed. That's why Chad falling into our laps (and Tom Brady Old Lady getting crocked) saved our season.

The word on Henne from camp was that he was finding it "very difficult to learn the offense" (read, he's not the smartest) and for every good pass he would make even in pre-season there would be some plenty of dross. Same with Beck and even with McCown.

JM, I'm in 'sunny' Ashburn so it's an ice-coated wonderland here!

Posted by: Redcoat | January 28, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Clearly, the Parcells-Sparano regime is going "all-Chad" at the QB position. Perhaps This guy has some long-term upside?

Posted by: daggar | January 28, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

BLOW IT UP!!! CUT WASHINGTON, SPRINGS, KENDALL, JANSEN, DANIELS, THRASH, AND THE KICKER. TRY TO TRADE PORTIS (YEAH RIGHT) OR BUY HIM OUT OF HIS CONTRACT LIKE THEY DID WITH LAVAR HARRINGTON SO HE CAN BE A FREE AGENT.

KEEP TAYLOR AND CARTER AND GRIFFIN FOR ANOTHER YEAR BECAUSE OUR DEFENSE WAS NOT THE PROBLEM AND YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FIND ANY TOP DL AS FREE AGENTS. IF YOU CAN THOUGH, THAN CUT ANY OR ALL THREE OF THESE GUYS.

THERE HAS TO BE A TOP OF THE LINE PASS RUSHING LB (LIKE A KEN HARVEY) OUT THERE. USE ALL DRAFT PICKS ON OL OR DL. DO NOT TRADE ANY PICKS NO MATTER WHAT. WE WILL PROBABLY BE 8-8 WITH THIS PLAN AGAIN BUT AT LEAST IN 09 WE COULD BE ON THE WAY UP AND A NEW DIRECTION LIKE OUR COUNTRY WILL BE!!! CAN WE GET RID OF SNYDER THE WAY WE GOT RID OF "W" AND SEND HIS ASS ON A PLANE TO HELL (THE SOUTH).

Posted by: BarackObama | January 28, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

thanks for the all-caps post moron...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Looking at the draft order I think team that we might be able to do a trade with is the Lions. Maybe the Lions want to trade up to 13th pick and we drop back to 20th pick and get an extra pick from them. Other than that I think we stay at 13th.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Looking at the draft order I think team that we might be able to do a trade with is the Lions. Maybe the Lions want to trade up to 13th pick and we drop back to 20th pick and get an extra pick from them. Other than that I think we stay at 13th.

JM220


Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 11:38 AM

JM,

Matt Millen's gone. Lions need picks more than we do. They'll be trying to trade down, not up.

Trade's not going to happen before draft day, and it will depend on how the draft breaks. If someone surprising slips to 13 that two teams want, we can trade down. Otherwise, we're staying at 13.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 28, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

te, agreed, I think someone falls, someone is gonna get cold feet on a guy like Oher, or Aaron Curry, and they could drop to us.

just my opinion....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Interesting. Nice article.

Just one question, why is CERRATO not up for evaluation? As it seems large mistakes have consistently been made during his tenure.

How about an article making Cerrato accountable? "What has he done for the Skins"- should be the headline.

I'd frame that one! Do it.

Posted by: pstate11 | January 28, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Pstate- apparently you haven't been reading much of Jasno's stuff.

Re the Draft - if Oher or especially Curry slips to #13, we'd best not trade that pick to anyone.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 28, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I don't think the situation needs to be depicted so bleakly.

1. Skins beat Cards and Eagles (twice), the two NFC finalists.
2. Erase the loses to Rams and Bengals and the team is 10-6 and in the playoffs.
3. Let's give Thomas, Kelly, and Davis the benefit of the doubt and hope that at least one of them turns into a PLAYER next year.
4. The "D" is very solid and unless it collapses, the Skins will be close in nearly every game. Secondary is strong.
5. If Campbell and Zorn can get the "O" in gear, the team can be a contender.
6. Get a top OT in the draft and some OL help in Free Agency.

Posted by: dlenehan | January 28, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

'...Lions need picks more than we do...'

Posted by: talent_evaluator

What is wrong with the world when the fate of the Washington Redskins is caught up in the hopes of the sorry Detroit Lions?

If we have sunk so low, could we at least call Meadowlark Lemon and ask for rights to the following name change:

WASHINGTON REDSKINS=WASHINGTON GENERALS

We could even make the Native Americans happy by taking the 'redskin' off the helmets and replacing it with an image of Obama smoking a cigarette.

This sounds like the only change I'll beleive in.

Hail, maybe, Skins............

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 28, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"As an itinerant marketing guy I've managed to find some projects helping companies grow market share (at their competitors expense of course) but other than that it's just plain ugly out there.

Everyone else doing okay?"

Posted by: Redcoat

Redcoat, in response to your question, I'm hanging on by a thread in this economic turmoil.....it truly sucks.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 28, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

These same people will be the same ones complaining if he leaves and do well with another team.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

In the words of the right Rev. Paul Jones: When I look around and I think things over. All of my good days out weigh my bad days. I won't complain.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 28, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat, in response to your question, I'm hanging on by a thread in this economic turmoil.....it truly sucks.

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 28, 2009 12:39 PM
=============================================
The world of commercial real estate finance is going great, on the other hand.

(/sarcasm)

I'm hanging on by a thread tied to a thread.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 28, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Everyone else doing okay?"

Posted by: Redcoat

Oh lord no...our Miami corp. office closed down the Atlanta branch and now all 75 of us have made 16,000 new friends at the unemployment office!

While my parachute is made out of those little plastic walmart bags instead of gold, at least I have one. Could be worse, at least I never met Bernie Madoff!

Posted by: will_ga | January 28, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Interesting article by Mike Wise on MD b-ball. When I got to the part about the loss of fan interest after years of mixed results ... it occurred to me that the Skins might be on the same path. A slower descent, to be sure, but clearly possible. Danny is making it harder for people to care about this team ... 2009 might show some real cracks in support.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/27/AR2009012703815.html

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 28, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

+++All of you who ready to let the rookies go need to remember it takes time.

JM220+++

Namer your poison, Vinny defenders. Either taking five guys in rounds 2-4 who couldn't play a lick their first year was a smart move or giving up a 2nd and a 6th for a guy (Taylor) who was supposed to contribute mightilly THIS YEAR was a brilliant move. NOT both.

Redskin fans OF COURSE hope the three receivers (and guard and CB) develop into Pro Bowlers. I'd be willing to bet, at last one of them will. But if you are looking for immediate help, you need a GM who knows who's ready right away. Denver, the Rams and the Eagles found receivers who were.

If you're developing them you don't squander draft picks for the likes of Jason Taylor (and Erasmus James). You KNOW that D. Evans and Alexander can hold the fort, and you continue to rebuild with picks in 2009.

MY argument has always been, the Skins need someone with a good PLAN.

Posted by: TheCork | January 28, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

+++"Can someone explain how Vinny Cerrato keeps his job

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009"

He has a framed photo of Snyder's parents prominently displayed on his desk. What other rationale do you need? This is Snidely we are talking about.

Posted by: periculum |+++

No! no! No! So does Beans have a frames photo on his desk and he’s not EVP. What Vinny has going is the perfect racketball game. He can push Snyder, but doesn’t beat him.

Posted by: TheCork | January 28, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

+++what about signing OJ, to back up portis, we "might as well be insenitive to murderers as well", and Rae Carruth to help out DThomas and MKelly.

Posted by: BeantownGreg+++

Carruth and O.J. are in prison. Otherwise, I’m sure Vinny would have whisked away a draft pick or three for their rights by now.

Posted by: TheCork | January 28, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

"No! no! No! So does Beans have a frames photo on his desk and he’s not EVP"

Me fail English, thats unpossible...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Namer your poison, Vinny defenders

Cork not sure how me saying give the rookies time makes me a Vinny defender. Eagles didn't have any WR so it not hard for a rookie to get playing time. If I not mistaken Rams and Denver got time due to injuries. Nor did I say anything about Jason Taylor so I don't where that one came from.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 28, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Everyone else doing okay?

Posted by: Redcoat

Retirement seems to be working out okay. It's one job that you can't lose. Now, if the pension check just shows up again next month...

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 28, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Redskin fans OF COURSE hope the three receivers (and guard and CB) develop into Pro Bowlers. I'd be willing to bet, at last one of them will.
============================================
If you make me guess right now, I'm picking Sleepy Fred.

Count me among those who would have liked to see the Skins play two tight ends more the second half.

That's sort of the opposite of the WCO, but there's something to be said for putting your best players on the field.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 28, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

jm, that has been pointed out to corky probably 10,000 times, he still doesn't get it.....nor will he ever....


Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 28, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Namer your poison, Vinny defenders. Either taking five guys in rounds 2-4 who couldn't play a lick their first year was a smart move or giving up a 2nd and a 6th for a guy (Taylor) who was supposed to contribute mightilly THIS YEAR was a brilliant move. NOT both.

Posted by: TheCork | January 28, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I agree, Corky. And I said it at the time, Taylor was a great player, but over the hill this past summer. No way I would trade a second alone for him. That move was just a panic move, and it is really hurting us now. Like you said, D Evans was ready, and we could have seen how Jackson and Wilson could perform on 3rd down. Just a stupid move.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 28, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

If we want to try and find a bright spot....how about the possibility of Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly AND Fred Davis playing well next season?

Posted by: Lisa_R | January 28, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Sorry to hear that will_ga. I know a lot of good people losing their jobs at the moment.

Posted by: Redcoat | January 28, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I thought the 2 TE sets were a staple for WC offences, with overloads on one side or the other creating match-up issues for LBs and S.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 28, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Cork's point about a plan is dead on. The move for Taylor was about making the playoffs in 2008. No other reason for it. Sacrifice future for present opportunity. You can justify that.

But ... keeping all 10 picks? That's about the future. Vinny tried to win now and build for later. That's not a plan. Turns out, Vinny didn't do either.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 28, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

While my parachute is made out of those little plastic walmart bags instead of gold, at least I have one. Could be worse, at least I never met Bernie Madoff!

Posted by: will_ga | January 28, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

You could make a fortune in subway-grate guerilla art.

The secret to staying employed is to work hard for practically no money. And try to stay away from the letters V and P.

Posted by: SMACK1 | January 28, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

beep beep, belatedly.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | January 28, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

SMACK how goes it sir? I'm still occasionally working in Arlington, and we are long overdue to watch a game of footie....

Posted by: Redcoat | January 28, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Houshmanzadah

Posted by: sheffx | January 28, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

"If Jim Zorn were sold on Jason Campbell, they'd already have signed him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator"

Only if Jim Zorn was the GM. We don't know Zorn's assessment of Campbell, only Vinny's.

Posted by: psps23 | January 28, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

The fact that the redskins are still considering:

1. Keeping Shawn Springs
2. Possibly trading Carlos Rogers

Is depressing as hell.

Posted by: ecale25 | January 28, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

That big-time FA class that Gibbs & Co brought in three years ago flopped badly. Last year's draft was a disaster. We knew the receivers were and now we find the guard is also. We can see where the arc of this movie is going. Snyder has not gotten anywhere near being successful with his 10 years of team ownership. That is beginning to be a lot of water under the bridge. Snyder first and foremost is a businessman and he can see the writing on the wall. He cannot afford to spend money on the team the way he used to. The core of the team is aging and injury-prone. There is very little hope of anything other than mediocrity at best in the future, with 6-10 and 7-9 seasons more likely. Revenues are going to start to decline if they have not already. In his mind, Snyder has to be plotting an exit strategy of some sort. Five years down the road the team will have a new owner, there will be new management and coaches, a complete break with the past and some optimism about the future.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | January 28, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

i work at carmax toyota in laurel and Cameron Wake (the dude from Beltsville that JLC thinks will go from CFL to All Pro) was in here today getting a truck appraised. Guess hes trading up now that hes moving to South Beach

Posted by: drewkinnear | January 28, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

look the only way the skins are going to get better is lose the dead wieght, springs,griffin,taylor the list goes on. they need cheap talent and more pick go to the local pool. they missed out on lights out. they need to go to the cfl and vt, uva places like that. only way to get better.

Posted by: MGDMaster21 | January 28, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins have an age and incompetent problem with no replacements. How we got this way was incompetent management. Our 4 - 12 record next year will be better than Detroit this year, but not by much.

Posted by: edeshields | January 28, 2009 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Preview your Comment

After 10 years of ownership, Snyder has created a nightmare of a team - old, hamstrung by salary cap constraints and an inexcusable squandering of draft picks, and (perhaps worst of all) without a clear plan or sign of progress.

Instead, the team seems to follow a piece-meal, reactive methodology, as evidenced by Cerrato's "draft the best player available" strategy (of course, that strategy wasn't given a fair test in this case, since, with the obvious exception of Horton, who's a BEAST, better players were left on the draft board after each of last year's picks. And btw, since picking talent is clearly not your strong suit, maybe drafting for the team's needs would be best, eh Vinny? But then, that would only stem from having a plan, and, well....nm.)

Anyway, sorry to ramble. Thanks for destroying something that's been special to me since 1972, Snyderatto. If I believed in fairy tales, i'd click my heels and wish for a world in which Snyder recognized that neither he nor his pal Vinny knows d*ck about football, or at least about personnel, hires a REAL GM, signs the checks, and gets the hell out of the way. But i know that won't happen, which is why i tell my Raider fan friends that they're actually in better shape than we are - @ least THEIR owner won't be around much... well... you know where i'm going with this...

Anyway, i'm not on the dump-on-JLC bandwagon - i know it hurts, but com'on folks, he's just the bearer of bad news. We need look only to our own past to see how poorly the 'Skins of today are run. During our Superbowl years, esp the early 80s teams, we dominated the trenches. We had success with all manner of skill players, but throughout, we almost always owned the line play, able to run and stop the run.

I'll beat a dead horse to say you draft, develop and keep quality linemen - everything else is secondary. Snyderatto grabs at shiny new toys and seems incapable of formulating, much less sticking to a cohesive plan to build with patience and hard work.

Looks like I'm gonna have to find something else to do Sundays in the fall - this is just pointless.

Posted by: hogmeister | January 29, 2009 3:56 AM | Report abuse

Let's say, hypothetically, that the Redskins took a hard approach at getting younger. They could start out by looking at value they get from players based on how much they played and how well they played.

Jansen and Kendall are first. Rhinehart and Heyer should be placed in those slots and the team she seek some value players at those positions in free agency as competition for those two. If they're as pathetic as this article suggests (I disagree on this point), then it should be easy for an average guard and tackle to win out over them. Randal El can go. Too much pay for too little performance is the story there. Trade Portis. Get some value for him now because his performance is declining and his injuries are accumulating.

On defense Washington should go. Let Jason Taylor and Andre Carter go because they cannot get to the QB and they are mediocre run stuffers. Evans and Daniels can play ends. They should abandon their hopes to sign Hall because it will cost too much. Shawn Springs is great when he's healthy, but that is not often, so let him go. That leaves Rogers and Smoot at corner, so bring in some middle of the road free agents to fill out. Also, the team seems deep at safety and I wonder if one of those guys could make the transition to corner: maybe Kareem Moore?

They should trade their number one pick because they cannot afford it. If they can get two second rounders in the deal it would be fair, and they should just draft big old offensive and defensive linemen. As far as undrafted players, they might have some luck with linebackers and maybe a small school running back with either muscle or speed.

The Redskins need to think about lowering their cap number today while doig the things to ensure it is manageable in the future. They also need to improve their scouting operation, and if Vinny won't step aside for areal GM, then Snyder should force him to hire a talent evaluator. Would Bobby Beathard come in as a consultant?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 29, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

The solution is very simple. Mr Snyder needs to replace Vinny Cerato!

Posted by: redskinfan47 | January 29, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

This report tells me the Skins are really in salary cap purgatory!

When they resigned jansen to the new deal before they even tried to resign Dockery i wondered WTF! now they have players they cannot afford to cut. Jansen should be gone. Griffin should not be back. Jason Taylor just made $8 mil, it was the sweetest boondoggle of Snyder's money since Neon Deion Sanders was here!

Why they insist on playing with Rogers will he is our lone young and relatively cheap DB that can play is beyond me. you trade a 4 yr guy over keeping a 10-year guy that's hurt 1/2 of the season.

I was off the bandwagon before they went 6-2 last year. the 6-2 got me back on. their stupidity is about to knock me back to my pessimistic thoughts of the Skins and their front office.

Posted by: oknow1 | January 30, 2009 8:19 PM | Report abuse

let me translate the Rhinehart comment: the kid does not know the offense! It's the same thing with the WRs. at this point i have to look at the coaches and wonder if they know how to groom and grow players.

i still say Fred davis and Thomas can make plays at the NFL level. Zorn should have at least developed plays to use them for what they know or were capable of doing. if they don't know the 700 page playbook, make them study, but don't make them totally inconsequential because they have not mastered all the pages!

Posted by: oknow1 | January 30, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Einstein once said that "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." This is exactly the situation the Redskins personnel department and coaching staff seems to be immersed in. As another 8-8 season passes by and another .500 (or worse) season stares Redskins Nation square in the face, where is the commitment (besides lipservice) to righting the ship and returning this franchise to prominence? Redskins fans are patient and we all LOVE our team more than a lot of things in life but as each year of mediocrity passes by it calls into question how committed is the front office to winning on the field. No one can dispute that the front office is committed to fiscal excellence. That is why we have the largest stadium in the NFL and consistently have the highest ticket prices to attend games. Why hasn't the same committment been shown to improving the actual product on the field? And before it is even said, going out and buying washed up talent like B. Smith, D. Sanders, J. George, J. Taylor and the like does not constitute a commitment to winning. If anything it shows a commitment to placating the fanbase by feigning attempts to improve the teams with a "Win Now" mantra.
I sincerely hope the main priorities of the Redskins front office is not first to turning a profit and then to on the field success. Are both important? Absolutely! However, both are not incompatible. Until a new course of action is taken (i.e. hiring of a GM not with the initials V.C. and the nonsensical dependence on free agency as the primary source of providing talent to the team) then I can not see how the eleven 8-8 or worse seasons we have endured since our last world championship in 1991 will not continue well into the future. I honestly believe the Redskins organization is firmly committed to getting back to being a year in and year out contender for a Super Bowl. Until a new course of action is charted, sustained success (more than the occassional 10-6 season) does not seem feasible.

Posted by: jack98797543 | January 31, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Teams with meddling owners don't seem to do very well. Danny will probably outlive me, so I don't expect to celebrate any more Super Bowls. But I still have the Wheaties boxes from the glory years. Yeah!

Posted by: gareacy | January 31, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Man, after reading this I realized how much I miss Bobby Beathard

Posted by: vasco44 | January 31, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

The post made me wonder at what point does anybody in the talent acquisition department lose his job for creating the mess JLC so accurately described.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 27, 2009 11:51 AM

This is the underlying rotting foundation behind the teams many obvious problems. The day Snyder was allowed to buy the team instead of Jack Kent Cooke's son was the day the Skins were doomed to a generation of failure. Vinny will never go, because he is Snyder's bud, and if Snyder hasn't let this incompetent fool go by now, or at least given him a job where he cannot destroy the team, he never will. Snyder is young and appears healthy ( I wouldnt wish bad health on the man) and he will never sell the team because running the Skins seems to be his ultimate fantasy. When Snyder grows old and passes on, maybe we'll get a decent owner who knows enough to hire a competent GM, and we can again sing Hail to the Redskins with some feeling.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 31, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

HA HA,

These guys are going to determine the talent of the roster. I thought they should know it by now. Come on, this is a joke. This team needs a GM that knows football. These clowns are only interested in making Danny BOY happy. This team will be lucky to win 4 games next year. Fans stop paying to see this sorry team play. Then maybe Danny BOY will sell the team. He is only worried about making $$$$.

Posted by: mike1ad | February 1, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

That's such a depressing post by JLaC. I desperately hope he is wrong. Basically he's saying that the coaches know the team is rotten in crucial areas but the FO is powerless to to anything about it becuase we are so crippled by the cap. More of the same next season by the sound of things - except it'll be a little worse as everyone will be a little older, a little more beaten up and a little slower.

How demoralising.

Posted by: tartanskin | February 2, 2009 7:55 AM | Report abuse

Let's remember a few of the notable draft picks and FA signings that never panned out:
92 - Desmond Howard
94 - Heath Shuler
95 - Michael Westbrook
02 - Patrick Ramsey

Adam Archuleta
Bruce Smith
Deion Sanders
Brandon Lloyd
Jeff George

It's amazing how a large business entity such as the Redskins can make so many bad business decisions buy mis-judging new talent and awarding "over the hill" players with lucrative contracts. It's going to be very disappointing for Redskins fans to believe that the next few years may be painful to watch based on bad business decisions. While I love the Redskins, I'm often embarrassed at the "circus" and hype they create trying to patch together a winning team. It doesn't appear they have any chemistry to build a successful team over the next few years. I agree we need to "bite the bullet", cut ties with all the large contracts, and start building from the ground up. Might as well be patient for a few years and build a legitimate team. The "patchwork" thing each year just creates a larger hole to cliimb out of...

Why trade Rogers? I think he's one of the young bright spots that actually might carry some long-term value for the team. Time to part ways with Springs & Smoot.

Posted by: keaton01 | February 2, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

Anybody think the Redskins could benefit from a new look? Perhaps a tweak to the logo or new uniforms?

Posted by: keaton01 | February 3, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

As a native washingtonian and diehard skins fan it pains me to say this but the Skins suck!!!! The team is too old the offensive coaches are not creative the scouts and training staff are pathetic and it's obvious there is NO PLAN in place for the team... If a WR can't memorize the entire playbook then play him in the plays that he knows!!! Thrash and Randle El are bums they would not be on the roster of any other NFL team our passing game was pathetic how hard is it to tell a guy to run a fade route?? F.Davis how hard is it to tell him to run a crossing route?? Ask yourself what is it that we do well as a team? You can't say we are a running team because we put no money or draft picks into obtaining quality o-linemen,we don't have a legitimate substitution pattern to spell our feature back with a QUALITY backup, you can't say defense because we can't rush the passer nor create turnovers which are two prerequistes for being an elite defensive team... Snyder should be ashamed of the product he is presenting, if this was any other industry there would be a nationwide recall in effect! Oh and one last thing about UMD sports in general (basketball or football)historically when have they ever recruited heavily from the DMV area?? save for the Joe Smith team with Hip,Simpkins,Rhodes etc. Penn State and now Illinois get more blue chippers from the area then UMD in football alone.. It's the whole AD Dept. the rest of the country realizes the quality of talent in the area but UMD doesn't go figure..

Posted by: thinker13 | February 3, 2009 4:07 AM | Report abuse

I knew last year when we **WASTED** 2 draft picks on Taylor, that was the end of our Superbowl hopes for the next few years. We need to dump everyone we can to create cap space, and start building from the inside out & NOT TRADE AWAY FUTURE DRAFT PICKS!

Posted by: vtsquirm1 | February 3, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

I agree we wasted draft picks for Jason Taylor. Sorry man, but you're old and can't do shhhiiit anymore. Get rid of Taylor and Springs if you have to...bc they're both injury prone...good when healthy, but too much of a liability. Get some good O-liners and a big, tall WR.

Posted by: skinsfan7584 | February 3, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

I'm always stunned to hear that Springs might stay. It's a no-brainer to even Cerrato; cut that dude. They should work on retaining Hall, deal Rogers for picks and every other pricey vet. No on this team is very good. Trade them. Trade the cry-baby, trade Samuels, trade Fletcher. Get rid of them for low picks and get on with getting on. Thank GOD there is no talk of extending JC! That's the one piece of good news!!

Posted by: tdpillo123 | February 3, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

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