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Video, Club Blache and Chats

Jason Reid, who holds no elective office despite being called "The Mayor," gives his take on the Redskins' win over Philly.

Dan Steinberg reports that there really isn't a place called "Club Blache" -- where the chairs are comfy and the liquor is good and cheap. Sadly, it exists only in the mind of one man. On the upside, there won't be any embarrassing "mistaken valet" incidents.

We have two chats on tap today: Cindy Boren (yo!) at 11 a.m. with Mike Wilbon at 1:15 or thereabouts (clocks work a little differently in Wilbon World).

By Cindy Boren  |  December 22, 2008; 9:30 AM ET
 
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Next: Alexander Likely Out

Comments

"OTOH, there are qb's around the league who are actually good WITHOUT a decent o line. might be nice to see if Brennan is one of those...."

Posted by: TS_Alfabet

Really? How many of those will you find? My guess: 2-4 total. And that depends on what you consider "good".

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I am not a "cut this dude/fire that cat" type mofo, but that statement sorta floors me.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2008 9:39 AM |
-------------------

I'm not the cut him/fire him type either.

But I can't see who we should cut for sure other than Suisham.

If we draft O-linemen, they may/may not work out, so I think keeping Kendall, Thomas, Samuels and even Jansen (as a back-up) is prudent.

The backs are good, I believe JC is the QB for this franchise for the foreseeable future, the young WRs are going to (hopefully) develop, and the TEs are good.

On defense, the secondary is great, the linebackers are solid, the D-line plays the run well, but they do need to generate more pressure on the QB.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2008 9:51 AM |

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

psp,

Are you on 980 right now? Defending JC

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

might be nice to see if Brennan is one of those....

Oh geez, you're one of the "Start brennan because he played okay against people not currently playing in the league" people...

You're not really worth any further discussion.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Ideally, Philly beats Dallas (possible) and Tampa Bay beats Oakland (very likely), thereby eliminating Dallas and Philly from the post-season.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

"the linebackers are solid"

No they are not.....they are one Fletcher injury away from total disaster.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Get a grip on this !

Posted by: slipperyrichard | December 22, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Colt Brennan tore it up against Wyoming State and Tacoma County Community College. How can he not be the next Tom Brady?

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 22, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

"Nobody said that Campbell can't throw a short pass, at least 62% of the time. But that's no great feat for an NFL qb, contrary to your bragging on JC for high completion % (which isn't even that great).

Posted by: TS_Alfabet"

That's true, I can agree with that. But I also don't see where in this offense Campbell can markedly improve. All he can do is put the ball in the hands of his receivers. Is he perfect? Far from it. But even if you put Tom Brady back there, Moss, Cooley, ARE and the other receivers will still be running 5 yard routes. How many deep shots did we see yesterday? How many times do you watch a game and truthfully say "Campbell missed that opportunity. He mis-read that defense and missed a wide-open WR"? It doesn't happen often at all. He's a very smart QB. A little inaccurate? Sure. But so are most QBs in the league. Eli is no pinpoint passer, either. The difference is that his coaches and surrounding talent put him in positions to make plays. Campbell's opportunities are very few and far between.

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Well, if they DO spend a draft pick on a LB, I like the kid from Boston College, Mark Herzlich.

He's an OLB, but I watched enough BC games this year to see he's a game changer/play maker.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

"But I also don't see where in this offense Campbell can markedly improve."

Meaning to the tune of 7-8+ ppg, which is where a decent offense should be.

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

" I swear you could give 24 of us RI posters a crack at GM and we'd do a better job.


Posted by: chrislarry "

I want to thank chrislarry for the vote of confidence. He must be reading my great mock drafts a lot and sees the untapped potential I, The Truth, possess.

Hail To The Truth

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 22, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

* That's assuming Herzlich leaves BC early. Some reports say he will, some say he won't.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

What are the odds we land Peppers? Or Suggs? Methinks we need one of those guys...

Also, Lance Moore would be an awesome pickup.

Draft two starting lineman, and pick up one lineman FA.

That should be good enough for this offseason. That, and cutting Taylor, Springs, Marcus, and Griff.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 22, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

My major gripe with the offence is the inability to put even two scoring drives together in a game. It would be interesting to research how many of touchdowns in the last 7 games have come when we have started inside the 50 yard line and what percentage of our total touchdowns that would be. Another interesting statistic would be how many 3 and outs our offense has had. Despite the lack of takeaways our defence is very underrated due to the amount of offensive series it has to defend against during a game. The big difference between the first half and second half of the season is that the offense was able to make first downs earlier in the season. Could that difference be the dynamic of a fresh Portis versus what I am seeing now?

Posted by: driley | December 22, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I got to believe you take an O lineman in the first round and go strong after Haynsworth in FA. Or, vice versa, and go after a D lineman in the 1st round and go after Gross in FA. Go for a Linebacker or another OL in the 3rd round. I don't know about trading down, cause I just don't trust Cerrato having extra picks to work with. Take the best player at the Oline or Dline in the 1st round and be done with it.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

On Campbell - I don't think we know what he's going to be yet. He certainly needs to be more aggressive, but he already looks better than Hasselbeck looked in his first year in this system (and Hasselbeck had been a backup in this system for years prior to that).

On Jas. Taylor - I think we still need to cut him (one game is not enough). I wonder what people will think if we allow him to be a rover again next week and he turns in another big time performance. If it starts to seem like we were just using him wrong or he just wasn't healthy, should we still cut him?

Posted by: LiberalMike | December 22, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I know he's signed through 2009, but do they just cut Marcus Washington, or does anyone think they can they get something for him via a trade?

The Skins don't have a third round pick. Just wondering if any team would give up a third round pick for MW.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I think JZ needs to forget about calling plays. I dont think Gil Haskell will be the OC for Seattle next year. We should try to sign him with the Skins.

Posted by: thewayitis | December 22, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Never heard of Gil Haskell, but if he's related to Eddie, I say let's sign him.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

NO team in their right mind would trade anything for MW53. He's likely to be asked to rework his contract if he's not outright cut this offseason. And if he's still on the roster, he's likely to be a post June 1st cut to save cap numbers. The Skins need to go to a number of vets, as they do each season and ask them to take a pay cut. Springs, Griff, Washington, Taylor.

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 22, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Depending on the relationship with Jim Zorn.. we should look into hiring this guys. He has done a great job with Seattle's Offense for the past few years. I seriously think JZ is way over his head with the play calling and quarterback coaching duties.

Posted by: thewayitis | December 22, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

do you guys think we should lose to SF on purpose next week?

a win against SF, and we become 3rd place in East, meaning we play AT PACKERS and home VS seattle next season....

a loss to SF, and we stay 4th in East, and play AT DETROIT and VS STL RAMS

i'd let the starters play the first half and try new stuff, and then let the backups make sure we dont get hurt (and lose). the mere thought of possibly playing in lambeau late in the season is scary.

Posted by: kman2 | December 22, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

The Skins don't have a third round pick. Just wondering if any team would give up a third round pick for MW.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Maybe a 7th rounder at best

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Maybe a 7th rounder at best

Posted by: ga8085 | December 22, 2008 10:39 AM

Didn't we used to have one of those?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Got a chance to speak with Vinny this weekend and he wanted me to set the record straight.

Draft priorities and projected round.

1st: Punter
3rd: QB
4th: Kicker
5th: Wide Receiver
6th: TE
7th: Traded to the Jets for a nice Corned Beef sandwich with the corned beef sliced paper thin and mustard with mustard seeds in it.

I don't know about you guys but I feel better.

Posted by: Gweez | December 22, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Any updates on the Vinny show for the working bums w/o radios?

Is he sweatin' yet?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

I'd rather be where we are now, than where the Eagles are now.

They have a declining QB, a RB who basically IS their offense. And a mini Santana.

There's no big difference.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 2:55 PM

Have you been drinking? There is no big difference? That goes to show yoou how out of touch you Skins' fans are...hilarious

Posted by: po403 | December 17, 2008 2:58 PM

Am I out of touch now?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

"Well, if they DO spend a draft pick on a LB, I like the kid from Boston College, Mark Herzlich.

He's an OLB, but I watched enough BC games this year to see he's a game changer/play maker.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 "

yeah this guy is darn good

I wonder where he's projected. If he slips to 3rd round he'd be worth a serious look (if we don't take a LB in the first).

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 22, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Marcus Washington has a major impact on this defense. A lot more than people realize. A big reason we were getting pounded on the ground by the Ravens, Dallas, and (I can't believe I'm saying this) Cincinnati is because of MWash being either limited or not out there. Skins should think long and hard about releasing him without a viable replacement in mind. Especially on defense, the skins don't need to do any unnecessary releasing of players unless that immediate cap relief provides help elsewhere (and the only place worth signing anybody for big money is along the o-line). Similar to Springs, he may miss a lot of time, but it makes a BIG difference when he is out there.

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

po403 = Missing In Action for some reason...


lol @ losing to us twice this year, ouch

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 22, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

I wonder where he's projected. If he slips to 3rd round he'd be worth a serious look (if we don't take a LB in the first).

If we do anything but draft an OL or trade down for more picks with which to draft more OL later, I could seriously consider not watching or going to any games next year.

LB is a need, but it's 3rd on the list of needs, and a distant 3rd at that....

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

I have the perfect trade:

MWash to Detroit for Calvin Johnson and their #1 pick
Marcus Mason to NE for Tom Brady, and Randy Moss
Leigh Downed Punt Tryon to Dallas for Demarcus Ware.
Finally, James Thrash to Tennessee for Albert Haynesworth, and their #1.

Should fix things right up...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 22, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

According to Vinny, we definitely are not tanking the game on Sunday (at least not on purpose). We will be trying to win. Which means our usual conservative offense.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 22, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Some yahoo just called in to WTEM screaming (literally) for Portis to be cut.

"He's a cancer on the team, I don't care how many yards he runs for, we need to get rid of him!"

So much for the myth that Redskins fans are among the most knowledgeable in the league.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 22, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

kman - I agree with you - I don't really care about winning this week - I'd rather lose, get a last place schedule, and a better draft pick. Otherwise you give Detroit and the Rams to Dallas or Philly next year, and those teams are gonna bounce back anyway.

The team showed me this week that they have heart and they didn't quit on Zorn, so thats good enough for me.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

I am so sure Vinny would go on la radio and say, "Yes actually we are going to tank it this week to get in better off season advantage."

In fact if Vinny is saying we won't tank it, it means they have already decided to.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Vinny's brother just called in.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

"He's a cancer on the team, I don't care how many yards he runs for, we need to get rid of him!"

Cutting Portis is Silly.

Figuring out his replacement is definitely on the short-term (1-2 years) goals list, though.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Vinny said they want to turn the 4 picks into 6-7 and there will be 9-10 guys turned over which is normal.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Greg, are you crazy?

James Thrash is worth two #1's, and even if Tenn offered that there's no way we should trade him. He's the glue that holds our offense (and special teams) together. Without him, our offense would probably score something like 10 points per game on a good day. Pfft!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 22, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

good stuff beantown....good stuff...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

"• No wonder Tennessee wins every year. The Titans have the best defensive depth in recent NFL history. No Albert Haynesworth 'til the playoffs? No Kyle Vanden Bosch 'til the playoffs? No worries! We'll just trot out a second-round pick from Eastern Michigan, Jason Jones, to get 3.5 sacks and force three fumbles in a game for AFC home-field advantage through the playoffs. We'll just start a free-agent from UCLA who didn't even play football in 2007, Dave Ball, for Vanden Bosch, rotate him with Jacob Ford and get four quarterback hits out of them. And when Jevon Kearse, the left end, goes down early in the second half, we'll throw a fourth-round pick from Winston-Salem State, William Hayes, in the game, and he'll get a sack of Ben Roethlisberger, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery."


from Peter King


good drafts for other teams make The Truth sad

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 22, 2008 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Flound, thanks for that, seems like a good plan at this point, where will their first pick be?? #13??

Guys turned over:

Thrash
Kendall
Jtay
Springs
MWash
Flabini

for starters...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 22, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

an addendum :

"William Hayes, Tony Brown, Jason Jones, Dave Ball, Jacob Ford, Amon Gordon.

Fourth-round rookie, 2006 street free-agent, second-round rookie, 2008 street free-agent, sixth-round pick in 2007, practice-squad addition last week."


The Truth hurts.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 22, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

The JLaC H-Back post was the worst I have read. His glasses have gone to the dark side…..

We can look back more places than he would have you expect. We have 6 losses, not 2.

That St. Louis game was lost by Leigh Torrence, the guy he has been defending all season long.

Doesn’t even mention the name DHall23 and his lights out performance for reasons unknown (Because mentioning him would make his Leigh Torrence defense look bad like it is).

Didn’t mention J Tryon downed a ball inside the 5 and had a good day at special teams.

Begging for Rinehart to play when we have 2 healthy starting gaurds is ridiculous, especially when he's refering to tackle play.

Not acknowledging that this offense is worst than Gibbs 2.0 offense, not the same.

JZ in-game management is still weak.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Two offensive Free agents: we could go for offensive line would be Jordan Gross of the panthers, and Mark Tauscher of the packers.

3 top ten defensive free agents: Julius Peppers, Albert Haynesworth, and Terrell Suggs.

I don't know if they redskins will do in the offseason because we are so weird when it comes to free agency!

Posted by: coop28 | December 22, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

It wouldn't be smart sigining a FA lineman. We need to soend the money Defensive playmakers.

All we have to do next year is replacr Jansen and Kendell with HEyer and Rinehart and draft for depth and future....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"That St. Louis game was lost by Leigh Torrence, the guy he has been defending all season long.

Posted by: DaReal4th"

How blind are some of the people on this blog?

The game was lost by Leigh Torrence? Really? One play where the WR made a spectacular catch that led to a FG? The game wasn't lost by a bonehead mistake that was a 10-14 point swing? The game wasn't lost because our offense could only put up 17 points on the 28th ranked defense in the league (31st in points allowed)?

Some people here amaze me. The blinders are awful right now.

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"Doesn’t even mention the name DHall23 and his lights out performance for reasons unknown (Because mentioning him would make his Leigh Torrence defense look bad like it is)."

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 11:04 AM

I have to agree with this. His silence on D Hall has been really suspicious.
You had to admit, D. Hall earned his money yesterday. Dude was ballin'.
No mention of improved punting and coverage further confirms his unobjectivity.

But we knew this all along.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

PSP23 - JLaC pointed to that play not me.

I agree the game wasn't lost because of him. I was just rebutting his point. He pointed to the play and didn't mention the coverage.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Anyone remember going to Pettibone's? I wonder if Club Blanche will be like that. BTW back in '93 my dad told me that he and my mom we getting divorced at a Pettibone's that was later turned into a Boston Chicken.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 22, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

1. DHall is having a "contract (second half of) season" ... like Haynesworth ... they are playing full on rabachs out ball b/c they will be stepping up to the contract table in a couple few weeks.

2. Plackemeier finally played like he was trying to nail down his job for next season (see #1). [I still say the Skins should take a mulligan on drafting then firing Brooks ... and should bring him in to compete with Plackemeier ... as well as some proven punter.] Tryon gets no credit for arriving at an essentially dead ball.

3. Free Jason Reid.

4. I also want to get on chRIs lArRy's "GM Committee of 24" ... is their a Wonderlic test for that? Also, I recommend getting GM Jack Bauer of "24" (only the first couple seasons, not the craptastic last one).

5. Not sure who is in worse trouble ... Reid or McNabb (or both).

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Man I love Blache this year. His quotes, attitude, and coaching have been the only thing worth watching in 2008.

I would start calling for him to be the head coach if I didn't know he already sucked at it once.

I hope he stays around for a while.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Let me interject one more of my crazy thoughts:

Don't add any playmakers or starting qaulity FA to the offense.

Let the 3 2nd Round rookies step up and replace to OLine starters.

Consistency.

Defense - Keep MWash one more year. Cut/trade McIntosh. Keep Griffin.

Convert JT 55 in the hybrid LB he has became and sign a playmaker or 2 on the DLine.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I think that the team has some in-house needs to take care of. Re-signing Dhall, and then Rogers and Campbell. Not sure what is going on with Rogers, but I'd still like to retain him.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 22, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Let me correct myself.
Blache has not been the only thing worth watching this year.
But next to CP running people over in the first 9-10 games, Blache has been the most entertaining, and confidence inspiring.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

I would start calling for him to be the head coach if I didn't know he already sucked at it once.

I hope he stays around for a while.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2008 11:24 AM |

Blache, has never been a head coach, you are thinking of GW.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

I meant to say replace 2 OLine starters (Heyer and Rinehart)

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

i don't have the energy to post the same old crap...so i'm just going to say whatever cL's saying:

Exhibit A on why the Snyder years are wash repeat rinse. We accept mediocrity with a "please master may I have another" mentality in Redskins Nation.

F Vinny! F Vinny!!!!!

it was so troubling watching that game having watched them play DEADball and not Football the past 3-4 weeks. and then it was confirmed by their QB, jc when he said

"we played with emotion today. we haven't played with emotion for a long time. we win when we play with fire inside."

so all i gotta say is F this team and this owner and his GM!!!! all you drinking the coolaid, may god bless you, i could never do what you do and i don't want to do what you do.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

...I still say the Skins should take a mulligan on drafting then firing Brooks ... and should bring him in to compete with Plackemeier ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 11:24 AM |

I would agree but, how do you do this? Green Bay signed him to its practice squad. Unless we add him to our active roster before next weekend, isn't he Green Bay's property?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 22, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Blache, has never been a head coach, you are thinking of GW.

Posted by: Flounder21

I thought he was head coach at Chicago for a couple of years. Dam, my bad.

Hey, why not make him head coach then.
I know thats crazy, but we're the Redskins. We do crazy!

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

"we played with emotion today. we haven't played with emotion for a long time. we win when we play with fire inside."

so all i gotta say is F this team and this owner and his GM!!!! all you drinking the coolaid, may god bless you, i could never do what you do and i don't want to do what you do.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 11:32

Played with emotion, JC should of said we won because are defense held a team below 13 points, and since we can not score more then 10 most of the time we won.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

btw coolaid is a mockedup/cheap version of Kool-aid...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

deal thanks for clarifying that....re: the cool-aid/Kool-aid.....From now on I'm using my bonus points, and buying the expensive stuff......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 22, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

t_e_, practice squad guys are eligible to sign with any team (including any team's offseason roster). He becomes Green Bay's guy once he signs onto Green Bay's offseason roster ... which he can't do till the offseason. [Not sure whether that means Green Bay's offseason or every teams' offseason ... I think the latter.]

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Do you guys (Beantown/Flounder/whoever else) still think that WCO Offense will work in the NFC East?

Both Defenses were too good to have some WCO beat them in a cold December game......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I know thats crazy, but we're the Redskins. We do crazy!

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2008 11:34 AM

This slogan should be printed on game tickets for 2009...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

np greg!

sween, you're right about everyone playing well on your list for the contracts. very troubling with the exception of placky. i thought the wind really helped him by knocking his balls(heehee0 down. so i don't think he did anything differently from what he's been doing.

i really think he's an okay kicker. his stats don't show it but he's got a good leg and i don't think he's shanked any with the skins(?).

really, really it's going to take a hand of god to turn this franchise around. and i don't mean a player or a coach hiring/firing, i mean like a miracle circumstance where danny fires vinny or danny loses the team or zorny goes to danny and says listen MF'er it's going to be either vinny, jc or me.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Elements of the WCO will work, Dallas has elements of it, even NY does have the slants and short passes. I think the Midwest system will be our end result, we will still be a run team.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 22, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Both Defenses were too good to have some WCO beat them in a cold December game......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 11:45 AM

Green Bay and Philly have done WCO in the cold for years and have made it to Super Bowls. Pick another argument...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

i mean seriously why isn't blache the head coach of this team?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

i mean seriously why isn't blache the head coach of this team?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 11:53 AM

Because he doesn't want to be. He almost retired before this season and I'm pretty sure Danny and Vinny wanted to talk to him about taking it before they went with Zorn. So you'll need to get over that because Blache wants no part of being a HC.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Green Bay and Philly have done WCO in the cold for years and have made it to Super Bowls. Pick another argument...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2008 11:53 AM

Let's see what GB does w/o a HOF QB running the O. Philly hasn't won a SB and only won ONE NFC Championship in that so called 'Glory Years of Philly'. So argument is back on.

Plus, I was refering to the NFC East.

Alex- Everyone's elements of every offense now a days, and I am fine with that. But running a purely WCO is wack in the NFC East. But, we may have to live with it, so I can only hope JZ adjust unlike Andy Reid has done.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Wood's dead on, Blanch is getting up in age and wanted to retire. Pluss Danny seems to hate D-Coaches as Head Coach, as has been documented.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 22, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

brown, get over the fact that blache is a better leader and smarter than zorn? if blache isn't going to be the hc and zorn is to remain then why name zorny hc. zorny as a hc is worse than not having an hc.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

t_e_, practice squad guys are eligible to sign with any team (including any team's offseason roster).

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 11:38 AM

Thanks, sween.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 22, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Let's see what GB does w/o a HOF QB running the O. Philly hasn't won a SB and only won ONE NFC Championship in that so called 'Glory Years of Philly'. So argument is back on.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 12:01 PM

The systems works--otherwise there aren't so many HoF QBs that ran that offense.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument is that the WCO can't be run in the cold. So whether GB is in the NFC East is irrelevant. There are several incarnations of the WCO that featured dominant ground games as well. I just don't buy that argument.

I still don't believe the WCO belongs in Washington, but I'm not so blinded by that belief that I would go so far as to say that it can't work here.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

4th, the WCO can work in the NFC East or any other division regardless of the weather. The offense is predicated on short QB drops and quick, short passes. The 49ers, playing in windy Candlestick, seemed to do OK. Packers made two SBs with it. I would love for the Skins to replicate the Eagles' glory years.
You identified the real problem - personnel. Look at what the Eagles did when they had a WR of some consequence. Imagine what they may have done with a legit WR all those other years.

As Greg pointed out, the Pats throw the football no matter the weather. Why is Matt Cassell, who hadn't started since high school, able to throw for 3600 yds in his first season as a starter?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Regarding Taylor, I hope he's willing to take a pay cut...but if the B man endorses him, that's enough for me.

I've seldom heard Dr. B give such high praise as he was quoted in the papers as giving yesterday...

The offense is really bad, and it starts up front. I've seen a few calls for Derrick Ward, but he wouldn't do anything behind our line - that guy was running straight as an arrow for 15 yards a crack yesterday, any pro back can do that.

Zorn needs to tell Campbell it's okay to make some mistakes. I think he's overly concerned with INT's.

Everyone wants to throw downfield. Hey, me too...except you aren't doing that when by the time your guy runs that 15-20 yard pattern, you're on your butt, or out of the pocket.

Start working on that O-line, and things will get better. That said, I was proud of how they responded this week when it looked like they may lay down.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 22, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Why is Matt Cassell, who hadn't started since high school, able to throw for 3600 yds in his first season as a starter?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 12:17 PM |

Because he's well rested and ready to go?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 22, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

But running a purely WCO is wack in the NFC East.

You don't even know what a WCO is, that's why you "don't think it can work." You're under some sort of bizarre assumption that a WCO means that you don't run the ball.

Then you completely ignore the fact that Shaun Alexander was MVP of the League in 2006 playing in a WCO.

Everytime you've been given an example of places where the WCO has worked, you've excused it away or moved the goalposts, so I'll bite.

Exactly why can't "The WCO work in the NFC East?" Please be specific and cite examples.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Do you guys (Beantown/Flounder/whoever else) still think that WCO Offense will work in the NFC East?

Yes, emphatically yes!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 22, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Regarding Taylor, I hope he's willing to take a pay cut...

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 22, 2008 12:18 PM

When he said last week "I wasn't worth $8 million this year" his agent must have gagged. That's not exactly the strongest going-in bargaining position.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 22, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Still not getting the "this idea won't work in this division" thing.

There is no "mystical offensive formula" for each division, or region, or conference, or area code.

If you run whatever it is you run very well, you'll be succesful. If you run it poorly, you'll stink.

Why is that so difficult to believe?

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 22, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

The Pats do not run a pure West Coast Offense. They run an offense that is derived from the west coast. They run very few 3 step drops, and spend a lot of time running the offense out of the shotgun.

It doesn't matter what the offense is, what it's called, or where it's derived from. What matters is the coaching philosophy behind it. Every scheme has the ability to install downfield passing. Every scheme has the ability to run the ball. The difference comes in how the coach/coordinator/QB decides to call the game. This will not be a successful offense with no propensity to attack down the field. That is something that all of the cold-weather "west coast" offenses have been successful at (if those offenses were successful). Brett Favre, Donovan Mcnabb, and Tom Brady have always pushed the ball down the field with frequency. That is something that is sorely lacking with Jim Zorn's playcalling. It can't just be 1-2 times a game. That will not get it done.

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

4th, this aint the right QB for west coast that's the problem. gibbs selected him to be the next rypien or williams. jc is just not that good of a qb in any system let alone a system that you have to make quick decisions in.

jc is a down the field thrower. we see that, gibbs saw that why didn't F. vinny see that?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

brown, get over the fact that blache is a better leader and smarter than zorn? if blache isn't going to be the hc and zorn is to remain then why name zorny hc. zorny as a hc is worse than not having an hc.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 12:06 PM

That may be the case but if Blache doesn't want it, we're not going to hold a gun to his head and make him take it. He doesn't want to take on MORE responsibility at a time where he's looking to get out of the game altogether. As for Zorn, he looked good for about a month so we know there's a chance he could be good. He has just as steep a learning curve as any rookie. Let's reserve judgement until after Year 2...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

LH/BW - Good Defenses in the Cold waether is what I said. Not just cold weather.

You can run anything in any climate. WCO started in Cincy. I know all this.

The point in whole is that there will be no team in the NFC East that runs a pure/more pass oriented WCO and be sucessful. (When philly was winning, the whole division was down). Especially against a good defense in cold December/January.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

TE,

Yeah, I can see it now:

Snyder: "Well...we'd love to keep you...and YOU were the one who said you weren't worth 8 million..."

Taylor: "That was a slip of the tongue...frustration...did you see me against the Eagles?"

Snyder: "You said it! You said it!"

Taylor: "Watch the Eagles film! Watch the Eagles film!"

....

How about 4 million?

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 22, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

shaun, people get hung up on, "redskins" football, and replicating that.

Too bad that neither John Riggins, nor ANY members of the offensive line from back then can play today....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 22, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Why is Matt Cassell, who hadn't started since high school, able to throw for 3600 yds in his first season as a starter?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Kevin Faulk

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

well said 8and8, I almost posted something similar about both the slurs (homo/jewish gnome) and the idiocy of his overall point.

You did better than i would have.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

That is something that is sorely lacking with Jim Zorn's playcalling.

Why are you assuming that Zorn won't or can't call deep strikes? Answer me two questions:

1) Who is he going to throw deep to?

2) Who is going to give Candle the time for a deep pattern to develop?

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

psps,

Honestly, pushing the ball downfield has been lacking both this year AND the Gibbs years...makes me think it's not their unwillingness to throw it downfield, so much as their player's inability to make it happen.

If you can't protect the QB long enough, he can't go down the field with any frequency.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 22, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Jason Taylor agreed that he was not worth $8M, but he said nothing about whether he'd be willing to play for another year for anything less than $8M.

If there weren't more pressing needs at DT, SLB, OT, and OG, then I'd say take a pass on keeping Jason Taylor. Those needs, plus his ONE big play yesterday, convince me that he is worth re-signing to play another year, i.e., to have the kind of season he was SUPPOSED to have here. I like they way Blache used him yesterday ... kind of lining up in different places, coming in from places other than where he lined up ... remind me a little bit of that bizarro killing machine of a front seven that Baltimore put on the field against the Skins.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

The point in whole is that there will be no team in the NFC East that runs a pure/more pass oriented WCO and be sucessful.

Again, where are you getting this inclination that a WCO means abandoning the run?

2006 NFL MVP - Shaun Alexander, Seattle Seahawks.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Kevin Faulk

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2008 12:29 PM

That was my point. There is a dearth of talent here at the skill positioins. At the same time, the QB has to make decisions and get the ball out of his hands. Do you think JC would throw for 3600 if he QB'd the Pats? I don't.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

My problem isn't so much with the west coast offense as it is with west coast offense coaches. Too often, it seems like they trust in their genius to a fault. Guys like Reid, Zorn, even Holmgren tend to outthink themselves and do stupid stuff like throw 3 passes from the one yard line or pick up 30 yards on 4 straight carries, then throw 15 passes in a row. They just seem to do what they want, rather than what works.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

“This is frustrating to come out here and play a team we knew we could beat,” said McNabb in his post-game comments. “We made mistakes and missed opportunities. It’s tough for us to swallow at this particular point.”

Suck it Donovan.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 22, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

**

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

... Let's reserve judgment until after Year 2...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2008 12:27 PM

Agreed re: Zorn. "Heckuva job there, brownie".

4th, not sure where you're going with this WCO doesn't work in the NFC East thing. With an angry defense, a coach/QB who are on the same page, a balanced offensive attack to keep defenses honest, and a dependable offensive line (read: a line whose performance makes them invisible to the fans), any team can be a winner. Schemes are just the language and vocabulary.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Do you think JC would throw for 3600 if he QB'd the Pats? I don't.

There's no reason why he couldn't.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

The key to coaching is not having set "schemes", "Offenses" and "Philosophies" it is creating and shaping game plans and strategies to the talents and abilities of the players you have and the situations you find yourself in.

When Gibbs had riggins and hogs he played smash mouth, when he had diverse back like Byner and 3 good to great wide outs he ran spread offenses.....

coaches who take "my way or highway" approach with their precious playbooks are always doomed to failure.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

The point in whole is that there will be no team in the NFC East that runs a pure/more pass oriented WCO and be sucessful. (When philly was winning, the whole division was down). Especially against a good defense in cold December/January.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 22, 2008 12:28 PM

Agree to disagree. I just don't see why running the ball and WCO can't be synonymous. I think too many people associate WCO with passing all the time and that's not true.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

sorry about the stars. not sure I should've eaten that mushroom pizza...

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

cL, did you write to the F. vinny's redzone show today?

someone named "larry" from nyc wrote an e-mail read on the air...i forget what the question was...

but brown:

...we're not going to hold a gun to his head and make him take it.

why not?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Nah dealer....JLC always talks about "Larry from Brooklyn" too, but not me. I would like to meet him though and hoist pints during next season....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Roger Craig had 1000 yds rushing and receiving in the same season and he had a 1500 yd season.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

"You had to admit, D. Hall earned his money yesterday. Dude was ballin'."

Would anyone really be saying that if D. Jackson could catch. Twice on the last drive he smoked Hall.

Posted by: will_ga | December 22, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

but brown:

...we're not going to hold a gun to his head and make him take it.

why not?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 22, 2008 12:38 PM

The millions in cash is not a defense to assault with a deadly weapon.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

There's no reason why he couldn't.

Posted by: VTDuffman

Have you seen him play?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Do you think JC would throw for 3600 if he QB'd the Pats? I don't.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

That's where we disagree. JC would throw the ball up to Randy Moss just like any other QB would becacuse Randy would make the play while beating the double team. It's about the tlent on the offense. The skins are below average on the OL, average to below average at WR, and above average at RB. JC is an average QB at this point. However I'm optimistic that he'll be a quality QB.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

...we're not going to hold a gun to his head and make him take it.

why not?

Posted by: dealer1

Because the really qualified candidates know when to turn down a gig.

You really think Blache would put up with Danny's meddling, and Vinny's incompetence if the team was his? He don't look like that type of guy.

Why you think Spagnuolo wouldn't come here.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 22, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

You really think Blache would put up with Danny's meddling, and Vinny's incompetence if the team was his?


For an antique Beretta shotgun? Hells yeah.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

jibba jabba

I've always been creeped out by gnomes. I don't know how people keep those in there yard. I'd be afraid of waking up and having them all standing next to my bed with little pick axes.

end jibba jabba

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Have you seen him play?

Yeah, and I've seen Cassell play. Matt Cassell is a perfectly competent QB, but the poor team that pays him way too much money in FA to come play for them is going to see just how average he is when he doesn't have the Pats OL in front of him, or the Pats WR corp to throw to...

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

"Why are you assuming that Zorn won't or can't call deep strikes? Answer me two questions:

1) Who is he going to throw deep to?

2) Who is going to give Candle the time for a deep pattern to develop?

Posted by: VTDuffman"

(1) Santana Moss is a top 5 league-wide deep threat. Devin Thomas was drafted in part because of his ridiculous combine athleticism. Both guys should be able to run deep routes, and run them relatively well. And Cooley could get deep vs any linebacker that's assigned to cover him.

(2) Protection is part of the coaching problem. As a coach, he shouldn't be leaving his guys on an island in a complete mismatch (like he did for Geisinger). A chip-block here, a double-team there could do wonders to buy an extra second for JC and the WRs.

It's not "he needs to throw deep." It's "he needs to call the deep pass." I'm not for Campbell putting the ball up into double coverage. But if the deep routes are run, then it opens up underneath. And it forces the defense to stop crowding the LOS.

Obviously I haven't documented how many passes were called with deep routes vs short routes, but to me it seems obvious that very few deep routes are called. In particular, Moss seems to be brought in underneath and on quick outs a LOT. Same with ARE and Thomas when they are in the game. A lot of curls and comebacks.

It should tell you a lot that Moss is the only WR averaging more than 12 yards a catch on the team. Only Cooley and ARE average more than 10 YPC. By comparison, Dallas has 7 players averaging more than 10 YPC, the Giants have 8, New England has 7, and the Packers have 5. Every single one of those teams have a top WR averaging more YPC than Moss. And that's Moss' specialty.

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

vtduff, agreed on Cassell, he's going to get Matt Schaub money, and probably produce similar results...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 22, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

No. This is a good blog for allowing spirited debate (even including direct attacks on other posters' smarts) but banning garbage like yours. There's no place for homophobic or anti-Semitic comments here. Not sure where Cindy is at the moment, but I hope she'll help us out here eventually.

Posted by: asdf5 | December 22, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

My best friend is a gay semite. So there!
Can some1 explain how my user name is homophobic and how calling a jew a jew is "antisemitic" ? Isnt this just making assumptions because I pissed you off? Come on, try to be objective.

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 22, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Butterfingers is obviously enjoying his Christmas vacation after a tough semester in the 7th grade.

Now, what do we do when trolls come out from under their bridge? We ITA.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 22, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, and I've seen Cassell play. Matt Cassell is a perfectly competent QB, but the poor team that pays him way too much money in FA to come play for them is going to see just how average he is when he doesn't have the Pats OL in front of him, or the Pats WR corp to throw to...

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 12:53 PM

So you know more than the people who actually do football for a living? Because if he is merely "competent," why would anyone overpay for his services? Certainly, they see what you see.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

the problem is that zorn doesnt call many pass plays that are meant to stretch the field, JC even said that sometimes those plays are not in the game plane.

Next the pass protection has to be better, everytime they do that stupid play action bomb to moss it is the same play, with only moss going long and he is always double covered. the problem is that on that play they go max protect and JC has no one else to throw to.

They have to do better at pass protection so that when they do throw long he has the time and can look at his 2nd and 3rd options

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 22, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

"Do you think JC would throw for 3600 if he QB'd the Pats? I don't.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

JC is going to throw for 3300 yards in this offense. You think he wouldn't be able to throw for 3600 with the Patriots' supporting cast?

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

For some reason, I can't get my machine to stream Zorn's presser. If anyone's hearing it, info please.

Also, it occurs to me that the Skins primarily problem is maintaining credibility in balancing the offensive attack, primarily due to the offensive line and limited number of (trustworthy receiving options). Our primary hope for next year is that the three second rounders show up (1) in shape, (2) healthy (i.e., stronger and faster), (3) filmed up, and (4) more focused. Also, that Portis does this offseason whatever he did last offseason.

Also, Butter Fingers, Nestle called and they want you to stop using their copyrighted candy bar. You are on their ITA watch list now.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

"Columbia, S.C.: What do you think it would take for people to cool their jets about starting one Colt Brennan? Mike Singletary running onto the field and sacking him?

I remember well the Hawaiian's luck against a so-so Georgia team in that whatever bowl game in January of this year. He got creamed. He ran up big numbers in a June Jones run-and-shoot system, and had a decent scrum in a pre-season game. I guess that's enough for some people to warrant a change in starters. "

THIS CLOWN FROM COLUMBIA

that's from the Cindy chat


let me say, this "SO SO GEORGIA TEAM" FINISHED #2 IN THE FREAKING NATION ONLY BEHIND FELLOW SEC TEAM LSU


JADED COCK FAN LMAO GET OVER IT LOSER!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 22, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Santana Moss is a top 5 league-wide deep threat. Devin Thomas was drafted in part because of his ridiculous combine athleticism. Both guys should be able to run deep routes, and run them relatively well. And Cooley could get deep vs any linebacker that's assigned to cover him.

Teams never have to rush more than 4 guys to get through the cheese OL, Anytime a deep ball is thrown, it's double-covered because D's don't have to sacrifice coverage for pressure.

Protection is part of the coaching problem. As a coach, he shouldn't be leaving his guys on an island in a complete mismatch (like he did for Geisinger). A chip-block here, a double-team there could do wonders to buy an extra second for JC and the WRs..

If blocking schemes are Jim Zorn's fault, what are they paying Bugel for?

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

So you know more than the people who actually do football for a living? Because if he is merely "competent," why would anyone overpay for his services? Certainly, they see what you see.

Sometimes I totally know more than people who "do football for a living." There's a certain added value to being an outside observer. A lot of times people who "do football for a living" can't see the forest for the trees.

And to the question of why anyone would overpay for his services? Because that's what a lot of foolish organizations do! A great example was mentioned above with the Texans and Matt Schaub...

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

... Devin Thomas was drafted in part because of his ridiculous combine athleticism ...

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 12:57 PM

Unfortunately, that's all there was. He was a JUCO standout who played one season -- his junior season -- at grown up college (Michigan State!! Woo hoo!!). He declared himself eligible for the draft after his junior year. Athleticism alone does not immediately translate into results on the field in the NFL (not even at a position like DT ... WR requires ALOT more). He has to have a major step up this offseason.

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

If anyone needs a laugh, go to NFL.com and compare Clinton Portis to Thomas Jones. CP is 4 years younger than the man and has him beat in every statistical catagory. Then reread Jasnos post about how they are the same player, then laugh. Repeat as many times as you woudl like.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 22, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

"4th, this aint the right QB for west coast that's the problem. gibbs selected him to be the next rypien or williams. jc is just not that good of a qb in any system let alone a system that you have to make quick decisions in.

jc is a down the field thrower. we see that, gibbs saw that why didn't F. vinny see that?

Posted by: dealer1"

This just isn't true. Campbell's best offensive year at Auburn came while he ran -- you guessed it -- a West Coast offense. In fact, he was SEC Player of the Year in that system.

Of course, that system was much simpler than this one. But let's not ignore the fact that he succeeded in the same style of offense in college.

Another contributing factor: his best year at Auburn was the only year where he started and ran the same offense for 2 full years. Sadly, Campbell hasn't had the same opportunity since.

Posted by: jcabana | December 22, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

This just isn't true. Campbell's best offensive year at Auburn came while he ran -- you guessed it -- a West Coast offense. In fact, he was SEC Player of the Year in that system. ... Another contributing factor: his best year at Auburn was the only year where he started and ran the same offense for 2 full years. Sadly, Campbell hasn't had the same opportunity since.

Posted by: jcabana | December 22, 2008 1:07 PM

Other contributing factors were Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams to balance the offensive attack.

I'm pro-Jason Campbell and I vote!

Posted by: dcsween | December 22, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

VT, what exactly is wrong with Matt Schaub? In four fewer games this year, he has more TDs than Campbell and he has a better QB rating.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

"If blocking schemes are Jim Zorn's fault, what are they paying Bugel for?

Posted by: VTDuffman"

Jim Zorn is the head coach. He's the top dawg. In particular, he's the playcaller. When there's an issue with this offense, it starts and ends with him. It's his responsibility to know what matchups are on the field. It's pathetic to try and give Zorn a pass for that. If he wants to be solely responsible for the QB and nothing else, let him be a QB coach. He was hired to oversee the entire team, offensive line included.

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Good point, Sween. The NFL seems to be moving towards multiple-headed RB attacks. Id definitely like the 'Skins to jump on that bandwagon.

Posted by: jcabana | December 22, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Good point, Sween. The NFL seems to be moving towards multiple-headed RB attacks. Id definitely like the 'Skins to jump on that bandwagon.

Posted by: jcabana | December 22, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Teams that do this have good offensive lines. Washington can't afford 2 60 million dollar running backs so you have to rock portis until the wheels come off. Unless you was to watch Betts carry for one yard per play.

Matt Schaub also has Andre Johnson who very well may be the best WR in the game. I could throw him touchdowns. Even Sage can.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 22, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Finally got around to watching the Rob Parker question to the Detroit HC. People can complain about JLC all they like but at least he does not cross that kind of line.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 22, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I think too much was put on JC this year to run this system. Rabach should have had the responsibility to call the blocking for the Oline. I think this was part of the problem with the offense.

JC should have only had to read the defense and play QB this year. Zorn put too much on JC which never let him play relaxed.

Just my opinion.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 22, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

If Zorn has to keep everyone in to help the O-line, then there is that many less guys out available to be thrown to...JC already can't find people open. What happens then?

VT = gets it. As long as the opposing team can bring pressure without blitzing, our offense will suffer.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 22, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

VT, what exactly is wrong with Matt Schaub? In four fewer games this year, he has more TDs than Campbell and he has a better QB rating.

What does Candle have to do with this particular branch of the discussion? I was talkign about overpaying for FA QBs based on an incorrect perception of performance.

The texans haven't really significantly improved as a team since they got Schaub, and Schaub's performance in Houston hasn't been a significant enough improvement over David Carr to warrant the kind of money they gave him.

That's the whole point: Schaub wasn't sort of magic cure-all that solved the Texans' problems. Matt Cassell also will not be for whatever team overpays for him this offseason.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 22, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Just heard that Zorn said he will play all his starters against 49ers, he said trying out rookies is for the pre-season.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"VT = gets it. As long as the opposing team can bring pressure without blitzing, our offense will suffer.

Posted by: shaunsherman12"

There is not one person, myself included, that disagrees with this.

However, THAT is not the root of the problem that forces this offense to put up less than 11 points per game in the second half of the season. The offensive line has played sub-par, yes. But it hasn't been THAT bad. Big Ben, Matt Cassel, Brett Favre, Joe Flacco, and Aaron Rodgers have all taken 30 or more sacks this year. Each one of their offenses put up considerably more points than the Redskins. The problems with this offense run far deeper than the offensive line.

Posted by: psps23 | December 22, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Two questions for tony with the longer than necessary user ID.

1. Why is it necessary to refer to Daniel Snyder is Jewish? Why do we care? We do YOU care? What does it matter to our discussion?

2. It's not a question of old school thinking vs. new school thinking. If you can honestly say that the Redskins biggest problem this year was NOT their offensive line, then you were not watching the same games that I and most others were watching. To further ram your point into the ground - it does not matter if it was 1940,1950,1960,1970,1980,1990 or 2000 - you need good blockers to excecute the offense - we didn't have them. And to finish off, the line in 1992 allowed something like negative sacks for Mark Rypien - he could eat a ham sandwhich back there, call his broker and wait for Gary Clark to get open - Made a huge difference.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | December 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"Teams that do this have good offensive lines. Washington can't afford 2 60 million dollar running backs so you have to rock portis until the wheels come off. Unless you was to watch Betts carry for one yard per play."

Even 2 60-million-dollar backs can't produce stellar results behind a crappy o-line -- at least not in the pros. Frankly, I'd like to see Betts get more carries. Portis does not have the burst that he used to, and he isn't getting any younger. If neither back can break long runs, why not spell Portis more - especially when Betts has been better in the receiving game?

Posted by: jcabana | December 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

I would argue that being third in rushing yards is a stellar result.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 22, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

BEEPS PEEPS

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 22, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

VT, this whole tete a tete started over how Campbell would do elsewhere. I don't rank him up there with Cassell or Schaub. Apparently, you do. Houston has the third ranked offense and the 4th ranked passing offense in the NFL. Last year they had the 14th ranked offense (11th passing). With Carr they were 30th overall (30th passing) in 2005 and 28th overall (27th passing) in 2006. I'd say they are getting their money's worth.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 22, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

"There is not one person, myself included, that disagrees with this.

However, THAT is not the root of the problem that forces this offense to put up less than 11 points per game in the second half of the season. The offensive line has played sub-par, yes. But it hasn't been THAT bad. Big Ben, Matt Cassel, Brett Favre, Joe Flacco, and Aaron Rodgers have all taken 30 or more sacks this year. Each one of their offenses put up considerably more points than the Redskins. The problems with this offense run far deeper than the offensive line."

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I agree the O-line is not the ONLY problem, but it is the predominant one. No scheme will work if you don't pass protect and the running game disappears against any worthy opponent.

I'm of that minority that finds Portis, however great a blocker he may be, to be expendable because of his mouth, his nagging injuries, and his huge cap number.

All the QB's listed above have better weapons save Flacco (who gets short fields and D points virtually every game..in fact, all those teams up there have seen points produced by their D's at a much higher rate than the skins), which is something most of us won't admit to, and is the other problem. Moss is a great WR - for about 8-10 games - then he pulls a hammy, and disappears for a month. This has been his MO since after 2005, the only season he really stayed healthy. Randle El simply isn't a #2 WR. Hopefully, the young guys will develop and this will be addressed by them. Cooley is a good player, but is essentially their possession WR - but as good as he is, he just isn't a WR who can open things up for Moss.

Having said all of that, if the O-line could do it's job at a higher level, all of these guys would appear better players, including JC.

I just believe that the O-line impacts the level of the skill position players far more than the other way around.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 22, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

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