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A Win Seems Likely, Unless ...

I expect the Redskins (1-2) to beat the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (0-3) at FedEx Field. Of course, I also thought the Redskins would beat the Detroit Lions, and we all know how that turned out.

To me, the worst thing about last week's 19-14 loss isn't the embarrassment of being the opponent against whom Detroit ended its 19-game losing streak. It's that if the Redskins could lose to the Lions, they potentially could lose to every team on the rest of their schedule. The loss, coupled with the ongoing struggle to score, stirs serious questions about Washington's outlook with 13 games left.


The Lions have a new head coach, more than 30 of their players were not on the 2008 roster and Jim Zorn made two questionable coaching decisions last week that helped swing momentum to Detroit. But here's still the bottom line: Things can't be good if you're losing to the Lions.

Zorn took a lot of heat, and deservedly so, on sports-talk radio for saying the team is improving. He was referring to the subtle improvement only coaches can identify in seeing players appear more relaxed, and proficient, at running their stuff. It would have been better for Zorn if he had kept that bit of insight to himself after a five-point defeat to a team that lost its first two games by 18 and 14 points, respectively. As you would expect, many national media members rushed to Ashburn after the Redskins' big flop at Ford Field and he shouldered the blame for the slow start, essentially saying he had to do a better job.

In keeping with the theme of the week at Redskins Park, defensive coordinator Greg Blache also threw himself "under the bus" for the defense's undisciplined performance - especially on third down. And several team leaders said it was on the players to execute their assignments better.

As Insider readers are well aware, I like Zorn. I think he is a good man and his coaches are hard-working as well. But Zorn, obviously, is not perfect, and in three games he has made major mistakes in play-calling and game management that have contributed to the slow start.

But he has also called plays that could have resulted in touchdowns if players had not dropped passes in the end zone, failed in pass protection and changed blocking assignments on offense. He has a defensive group that often has appeared to treat Blache's play calls as mere suggestions. Zorn has not been the one who is undisciplined in failing to maintain his gap responsibility, playing the wrong "leverage" in pass coverage and forgetting to identify the correct "landmarks" on plays.

That's goes straight to the players and to the makeup of the roster.

As I've written before, the Redskins determined the breakdown of the offensive line in the second half of last season was the single biggest reason for the 2-6 collapse. So it was a surprise when the team focused on defense in free agency, making defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history.

Haynesworth is a force, though I'm sure Blache would prefer he executed his assignment a little more often instead of freelancing. But when the offensive line is your biggest problem, well, you would think the Redskins would have done more.

They released tackle Jon Jansen and brought back guard Derrick Dockery to replace left guard Pete Kendall. The Redskins attempted to sign Seattle Seahawks tackle Ray Willis, but he wanted more money than they were willing to pay. More, however, should have been done to bolster the line through free agency or the draft.

Right guard Randy Thomas slowed down in the second half in 2008 and underwent knee and neck surgery in the offseason, but the Redskins couldn't release him because it would have been a $9.6 million salary cap hit. So they brought back Thomas. Right tackle Stephon Heyer, who opened 2008 as a starter, rejoined the first team.

Many in the organization knew Thomas probably wouldn't last long and he suffered a season-ending triceps injury in Week 2 against the Rams. Second-year guard Chad Rinehart, who did not play in a game last season, played against the Lions and committed only one major mistake in the game, I was told.

We'll see how Rinehart fares, but after three games it's clear right tackle is a major problem. Heyer practices hart and does the best he can, but he just hasn't played well in pass-protection or the running game. He has had major breakdowns in protection at big moments in games - and it seems he's by far the best right tackle on the roster. And it's not just about how many sacks or quarterback pressures a player is charged with when he grades out. It's about the ability to deliver at key moments in games -- what Magic Johnson called "Winnin' Time."

After watching Heyer for three weeks, I'm convinced the coaching staff has no confidence in tackle Mike Williams. Heyer has played so poorly (I'm not allowed to attend most of practice, but I've been told he's pretty much the same there, too) that there's no way Zorn and his assistants wouldn't turn to Williams, or at least open things up for competition, if they had confidence in him.

Williams should be commended for his impressive, rapid weight loss, but he has not played in a regular-season game since 2005. But this is where the team is now: with Rinehart and Williams as the top backups.

And before anyone brings up guard-center Will Montgomery, the reality is Rinehart and Williams are the guys the Redskins knew they would have to turn to if there were injuries at guard and tackle. Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels has played in pain because of knee problems, and he might not make it through the season. If Samuels sits out, Heyer would move to left tackle, Williams would join the first-team at right tackle and quarterback Jason Campbell might retire (just kidding).

Maybe Samuels's knee will hold up, Heyer will improve and Rinehart, a third-round selection in the 2008 draft, will justify the team's faith in him. At any rate, this is the where the team is and it will succeed or fail with these players.

By Jason Reid  |  October 3, 2009; 2:43 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Buccaneers vs. Redskins: Pregame

Comments

1st?

Agree that Zorn's description of improvement should have at least been balanced with some other statements.

Prediction Redskins 24 Bucs 9

Posted by: zornskins2 | October 3, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

...WAPO can save a lot of energy by just re-linking to this post from JR---seems like i already have seen it 2X/week...

Posted by: bobfromeaston | October 3, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Ouch. Doesn't sound like much hope for the OLine.

Posted by: charley42 | October 3, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

mistamayor

"... if the Redskins could lose to the Lions, they potentially could lose to every team on the rest of their schedule..."


A damning assessment, sir.

And if this likely outcome occurs, how many true fans would be ready for a roster purge and a few years on 3-13 and high draft picks to recover?

I would.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 3, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Portis is not only a has-been.. he's a never-was! Get hom OUT and the O-line will definately look better!

Posted by: OMFG | October 3, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

And if this likely outcome occurs, how many true fans would be ready for a roster purge and a few years on 3-13 and high draft picks to recover?I would.

Posted by: MistaMoe

It's starting to look like that's inevitable. What's really scary about it is, who has any confidence that Snyderatto wouldn't just SJK that up as badly as they have with the present roster? Even with a capless year?

What we really, really, really need is a football man with a large pair, who can make Snyder shhh and sit on his hands a while.

Posted by: SonofNero | October 3, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

WOW. Pretty grimm (pun intended) determination of the OL.

I know this must be killin bugel to have such poor talent, but there is not much blame that can be placed upon your head coach for this, especially when we know he holds 0% of the say in personnel moves.

Its possible that Zorn may be gone after this season, but with the way this organization is set up, I find it really hard to believe the Skins could land a top notch head coach in form of cowher, shanahan, holmgren.

Until upper management changes the fundamentals of talent evalation and team building, this team will struggle. Without that, its merely smoke and mirrors to produce revenue and make money, which makes it ever so hard to keep that fan hood alive.

Lets pray we get a W.

Posted by: m1ke3i6 | October 3, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

"Heyer practices hart"

Ok, you mean he practices with heart? At least, that'll be inspiring, wouldn't it?

Posted by: RedCherokee | October 3, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

I am a lifelong Redskins fan, and I hate that this team has not been a sustained success, but some of the attacks on Snyder and Vinny have been vicious. I mean to want the man dead or to be hit by a car is over the line.

Posted by: rickyroge | October 3, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Who can take a Top-Four defense and turn it into a Top Thirteen?

Vinny can!

Who can ignore what's right in front of his eyes, then turn his back and duck when the O-line implodes?

Vinny can!

Who can hire a head coach with no head-coach experience and then pick the poor guy's staff for him?

Vinny can!

Who can do a radio interview and remove all doubt about his inferior intelligence AND his inferior football knowledge?

Vinny can!

Who could do all of Redskin Nation a huge favor by resigning now?

Vinny can!

Posted by: eyestreet | October 3, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

dude, portis may be done, but he's the second greatest rusher in redskins history and has been the crutch of this team since he arrived. it sucks there was never a passing attack to compliment his ground game.

Posted by: mohawk44 | October 3, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

If your OL is as shaky as ours, you better have a top rated defense.

Doesn't matter if it's Zorn and JC at the helm or Tomln and Big Ben.

Last in the NFL stopping 3rd down conversions SUCKS!

Posted by: Alan4 | October 3, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

OT: Will someone at the Post please teach Eric Prisbell how to write a lede?

Back to the Skins.

Posted by: SteveMG | October 3, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Titans release Patrick Ramsey
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on October 3, 2009 3:14 PM ET
It wasn't so long ago we were talking about Patrick Ramsey and Vince Young's battle for the backup job in Tennessee.

Now he's not even on the team -- at least for this weekend.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 3, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Since Snyder's arrival the modus operandi can be best described as a long and unsuccessful patchwork venture. Bring in X coach or Y player to try and cover a particular weakness. Well, obviously, this plan hasn't worked and doesn't bode well for the future either. What options are we left with? As suggested earlier, one of the fixes may have to be a purge and do-over and, unfortunately, one way to trigger those events is a totally blown out season. A possible positive outcome to further Redskin losses.

Posted by: bones21 | October 3, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

"Who can take a Top-Four defense and turn it into a Top Thirteen?"

Until the defense is totally blown off the field by another team, I'll hold back condemning it.

Remember: the defense has carried this team for a few years, so if it has a down stretch, well, maybe you can grant the squad some occasional, "my bads."

But an NFL offense that can't turn long drives into touchdowns or mount serious challenges via the air is the team's real problem.

And until that's fixed, nothing that happens on D matters.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 3, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

rickyroge - What about wishing a selective brain deficit? Where whenever Synder tries to think about the 'Skins he temporarily mentally blacks out and starts drooling. Would that be too far?

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | October 3, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

dude, portis may be done, but he's the second greatest rusher in redskins history and has been the crutch of this team since he arrived. it sucks there was never a passing attack to compliment his ground game.

Posted by: mohawk44 | October 3, 2009 4:33 PM

Now there's no ground game to compliment the passing attack. Bottom line, this has been low scoring team for more than a minute.

Blame JZ and JC if you wish, but 16 or 17 points per game is normal for this team in this era. One solid game will put this team right in line with other recent Skins squads.

In 2005, the highest scoring season on this list, Gibbs was in his second year back. After 3 games the team was 3-0 with a 14.3 pts/game average. Ramsey got clotheslined in Game 1 and Brunell picked it up from there.

2009: 13.3 pts/game
2008: 16.6 pts/game
2007: 20.0 pts/game
2006: 19.2 pts/game
2005: 22.4 pts/game
2004: 15.0 pts/game
2003: 17.9 pts/game
2002: 19.2 pts/game
2001: 16.0 pts/game
2000: 17.6 pts/game

Posted by: Alan4 | October 3, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

"It's possible that Zorn may be gone after this season..."


If you think like the Wizards of Redskins Park, you fire Greg Blache, and get Zorn and offensive coordinator.

Zorn should be in position to oversee the entire team: after all, if he's responsible for its outcome as head coach, shouldn't he have a strong head in game time management on both sides of the ball?

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 3, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

mistamayor

"... if the Redskins could lose to the Lions, they potentially could lose to every team on the rest of their schedule..."

A damning assessment, sir.

And if this likely outcome occurs, how many true fans would be ready for a roster purge and a few years on 3-13 and high draft picks to recover?

I would.

Posted by: MistaMoe
________________________

Based on what I've seen, this could be a very bad season. Not just that we lost to the Lions (which are, I think, a much better team than they were pre-Schwartz), but the WAY we played against all 3 teams.

But I see absolutely no need for a roster purge. This team has a lot of good to very good players, and a few key moves this offseason (especially because of the improvements made this last offseason/s to D-line, WR, and P) could put it near the top next year (on paper, of course):

> Use our firsts this year and next, plus our 2nd (and maybe a player, such as JC), to get [1] one of the highest rated college QB prospects, and [2] a top OT prospect. Then next year either start the rookie QB or use a vet like Collins or similar (could pick one up in FA).
> Pick up another good to very good OT, and center or guard, in FA.
> Get a better PK via FA.
> If possible, pick up a good corner in FA.
> (Draft for RB, CB in later rounds of the draft.)

That's it for 2010, except... coaching. Replace Zorn with a seasoned vet HC who believes in the fundamentals.

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 3, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

In 2011, focus on more O-line talent, RB, and depth where needed most...

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 3, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

"a few key moves this offseason (especially because of the improvements made this last offseason/s to D-line, WR, and P) could put it near the top next year (on paper, of course):"

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 3, 2009 5:12 PM


Sounds like more patchwork to me.

Posted by: bones21 | October 3, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and I forgot OLB... Should try to get a reasonably good one via FA in 2010 so Rakpo can stay at DE full time.

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 3, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like more patchwork to me.

Posted by: bones21
______________________

As opposed to getting 22+ new players?

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 3, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

The realization that they could potentially lose any game on their schedule may not be a bad lesson to learn.

Posted by: themantoyou | October 3, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

The realization that they could potentially lose any game on their schedule may not be a bad lesson to learn.

Posted by: themantoyou | October 3, 2009 5:28 PM

The realization is good, but the likelihood is bad.

Over the past few years, I was always confident out defense would make every game winnable.

Watching the Lions rookie QB, with his 40.5 QB rating and 5 INTs in 2 games, take the ball 99 yards for a TD against our defense has shaken my confidence. Watching the Lions unheralded RB do a Barry Sanders impersonation on our defense like he was on his way to 200 yards until he got injured has shaken my confidence.

What, exactly, is the strength of this team now?

Posted by: Alan4 | October 3, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

a qb with touch, anticipation, and willingness to take chances would go a long way toward victories. even if jc could make that farve throw, he would chose to check down.

Posted by: mohawk44 | October 3, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Portis is not only a has-been.. he's a never-was! Get hom OUT and the O-line will definately look better!

Posted by: OMFG | October 3, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse
__________________

Hey, football is that game where big guys move that odd-shaped ball down the field, in case you've never seen it before. Based on your comments, it doesn't appear as though you have. Call Portis over-the-hill if you want (I don't happen to think he is at all), but he was absolutely one of the top backs in the league for several years.

Posted by: skinsfan213 | October 3, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

a qb with touch, anticipation, and willingness to take chances would go a long way toward victories. even if jc could make that farve throw, he would chose to check down.

Posted by: mohawk44
_________________________

don't forget "...with high clockspeed..."

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 3, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

What, exactly, is the strength of this team now?


Posted by: Alan4
____________________

supposed to be defense... it's just not properly coached, nor executing well, right now.

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 3, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

"This team has a lot of good to very good players..."

True.

But many have a big name and big reps, but don't hold a candle to other players around the league when it comes to production and performance.

I mean, right now, would you take Andre Johnson or Santana Moss?

Would you take Cedric Benson or Clinton Portis?

Patrick Willis or London Fletcher?

Courtland Finnegan or Carlos Rogers?

DeMarcus Ware or Andre Carter?

Darrelle Revis or DeAngelo Hall?

Chris Samuels or Flosell Adams?

Again: the redskins do have talented players, but they are not producing.

There are redskin players on the roster since the days of Spurrier/Shottenhiemer.

Wazzup wid that?

Maybe we've got an old team populated with young'ns who are not living up to draft status.

No playoffs for multiple seasons, 2-6 to end last season, 0-4 preseason, 1-2 this season with a close win against a bad team makes smart people look for the eject button.

And in pro sports, you're gone if you don't produce.

No matter who you are.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 3, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

"As opposed to getting 22+ new players?

posted by: chasgiffen | October 3, 2009 5:19 PM |

Exactly! Read previous posts. Patchwork under Snyder has not worked. May take a few years to turn around but we need to try something different. If you're happy w? 8-8, 7-9, keep it up. If not, let's clean house.

Posted by: bones21 | October 3, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

cockspeed?

Posted by: mohawk44 | October 3, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

We may not all agree on the best way to fix our team's problems, but Coach Zorn said something on which we can call agree:
"Losing creates thoughts."

Posted by: Alan4 | October 3, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

"A win seems likely......unless...." they remember they're the Redskins....

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 3, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | October 3, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

...ok Vinnie your plan for O-Line didnt work. Maybe the worst unit in the entire league. What about your plan for the CBs...ah not so good either. And how about a QB, nope. Wide receiver? Hmmm. Even DLine, how many sacks this year? How about at safety, they all play the same position--oops. TEs, that you got right, we just have too many of them. PR/KR nothing special...oy vey Vinnie.

Vinnie, errr exactly what is it that you do know how to do well...or even mediocre?

Come on Danny, whats it going to take to get a real GM in here?

Posted by: oddjob1 | October 3, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

This team is old.

This team has young players but JZ refuses to activate them, play them, or if they play, they're not given the opportunities to make plays.

STUPID!!!!!!

This team relies on the same old cast of characters, especially on offense, Portis(who is clearly in decline), Moss(easily relegated to a non-factor), Cooley(productive), ARE(surprisingly good in the slot). The youngsters Kelley and Thomas are rarely thrown to. We have a player who I beleive has "IT" Marko Mitchell, but once again, is rarely activated or thrown to.

I think Mason is a younger fresher version of Portis, and the plodding Betts, but he hasn't been given much of a chance.

Anthony Aldridge was activated last week. For what? He didn't get to play or wasn't activated. With his speed, he's clearly the fastest offensive player on the roster, he could be our version of SD's D.Sproles. Can we at least find out?

Other teams have young fresh talent and use them, not relying on old mediocre and non-productive players. To hell with this loyalty crap.

Can we see D.Thomas, or Aldridge or somebody return punts and kickoffs other than "Fair Catch"ARE, or the slow but steady Cartwright?

STUPID! STUPID! Stupid use of personnel on this team. Sit Portis tommorow and let these young backs who have fresher legs, a quicker burst and maybe the ability to make somebody miss get a chance. We can't do any worse!

If your the oldest team in the NFL, that right there lets you know your not going to be too succesful. After all, in case someone forgot, this game, IS a YOUNG man's game.

Posted by: 72Redskins | October 3, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Maybe it's just me, but did Malcom Kelley do something in the preseason that Marko Mitchell didn't do? Shouldn't Marko Mitchell be out on the field instead of Malcom Kelley?

Posted by: 72Redskins | October 3, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

WHOOOOO

Posted by: alex35332 | October 3, 2009 6:44

Thank you Alex. That was simultaneously catchy and disturbing at the same time. I'm leery of Mr Tamborine man but the siren song of a train wreck can't be ignored. Gotta go listen.

Posted by: will_ga | October 3, 2009 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Maybe it's just me, but did Malcom Kelley do something in the preseason that Marko Mitchell didn't do? Shouldn't Marko Mitchell be out on the field instead of Malcom Kelley?

It's not just you. Every third swingin' soul Up Here believes that X has looked better than Y so far.
It's these idiot coaches who clearly pick favorites based on the suggestions of the Illuminati that are the problem.

Posted by: daggar | October 3, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

....oh, that's right Malcom Kelley was a 2nd round draft pick, Marko Mitchell was a 7th round pick, forgot about the POLITICS.

(

Posted by: 72Redskins | October 3, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

WAPO can save a lot of energy by just re-linking to this post from JR---seems like i already have seen it 2X/week...

Posted by: bobfromeaston | October 3, 2009 3:35 PM


For sure, Redskins Insider could/should be a place to catch breaking news, interesting tidbits from practices and interviews, and all the other minute details that Redskins diehards want and need.
What's the difference between this post and the 856,429 others just like it from the past 3 weeks?

Posted by: saltine182 | October 3, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Maybe it's just me, but did Malcom Kelley do something in the preseason that Marko Mitchell didn't do? Shouldn't Marko Mitchell be out on the field instead of Malcom Kelley?

Posted by: 72Redskins | October 3, 2009 7:30 PM

Performance-based promotions? What a novel idea! Although I fear if they attempt to field the O-line based on performance, there will only be 1 or 2 guys lining up on Sunday...

Seriously though, Kelly was getting raves about his preseason practices, but it would be nice to see Marko on the field more since he was killing it in the games...

Posted by: Alan4 | October 3, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Just in, Devin Thomas lacks discipline and his attitude has been questioned....

Fresh off the wire, Zorn is on the hot seat because of playcalling....

New: It was determined in the offseason that the o-line was the reason for the second half collapse last season...

Mike Williams rapid weight loss....
Second year receivers not producing....
Brass wanting to replace Campbell with Sanchez and Cutler.....

I got it. We all get it. The same people check this page over and over. Understand who your audience is.

Of course WaPo is always looking to attract new readers who haven't seen these posts 400 times, but honestly, new readers will catch on quickly enough.

Posted by: saltine182 | October 3, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

72redskins

"....oh, that's right Malcom Kelley was a 2nd round draft pick, Marko Mitchell was a 7th round pick..."

The comparison of the 2nd rounder Malcolm Kelly to the 7th rounder Marko Mitchell works as the colts' Pierre Garcon is a nice upcoming receiver who is doing quite nicely:

Pierre Garcon (2nd year player--undrafted in '08).
CAREER 11 159 14.5 53 2

Malcolm Kelly (2nd year player--2nd round pick in '08).
CAREER 9 83 9.2 18 0

Point?: Sometimes you have to get guys on the field and let their 'game' take over.

Marko Mitchell probably has just as much ability and production potential as Kelly or Thomas for that matter.

Get the kid on the field.

What do you have to lose when you're already losing?

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 3, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Look, the front office is a disaster. We can all agree on that.

But when it comes to scoring points... well, we have always struggled to score points with JC under center. I like the kid, but he gets to the end zone and is a afraid to make a play. I have never seen a quarterback leave so many points on the field -- it's nuts.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | October 3, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

WAPO can save a lot of energy by just re-linking to this post from JR---seems like i already have seen it 2X/week...

Posted by: bobfromeaston | October 3, 2009 3:35 PM


For sure, Redskins Insider could/should be a place to catch breaking news, interesting tidbits from practices and interviews, and all the other minute details that Redskins diehards want and need.
What's the difference between this post and the 856,429 others just like it from the past 3 weeks?


Posted by: saltine182 | October 3, 2009 7:40 PM

Sorry guys, I don't mind if he posts this discussion every week of the season. This is an "accountability post".

Management failed to address the team's most glaring problem in the offseason and now we're beginning to pay the price.

I wouldn't mind seeing the FO work up a trade for OL (give away draft picks and/or trade someone), because this O-line wasn't that good or healthy to start the season, and everyone knew it. Now it's just one highly likely injury (Samuels) away from absolutely pathetic.

Posted by: Alan4 | October 3, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Look, the front office is a disaster. We can all agree on that.

But when it comes to scoring points... well, we have always struggled to score points with JC under center. I like the kid, but he gets to the end zone and is a afraid to make a play. I have never seen a quarterback leave so many points on the field -- it's nuts.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | October 3, 2009 7:57 PM

See my post @ 4:59pm, and you'll know we've struggled to score points with the previous 15 starting QBs under center too--except maybe 1 season > 20 points/game with Mark Brunell, in 2005.

Other QBs who started in this low-scoring decade include Brad Johnson, Tony Banks, Jeff George, Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerfful, Tim Hasselbeck, Patrick Ramsey, Mark Brunell, and Todd Collins.


Posted by: Alan4 | October 3, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

Half the time I don't even read the post. I'm just here for the scrapple review.

Posted by: will_ga | October 3, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, just 11 starting QBs since 2000 vice 15.

Posted by: Alan4 | October 3, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

A SECRET MESSAGE FOR DANNY SNYDER....

DANNY SYNDER, YOU ARE MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE BY NOT STANDING UP AND REPPING YOUR TEAM. STOP LISTENING TO THESE FOLKS. THIS IS YOUR BABY. OWN IT.

JACK KENT COOKE LET GIBBS AND BEATHERD RUN THE TEAM, BUT IT WAS NO QUESTION THAT HE WAS ULTIMATELY IN CHARGE AND THE PUBLIC KNEW WHERE HE STOOD.

LarryInClintonMD.

Either Brilliant Satire or you've been sucking the wrong end of the Bong, again, Larry.

JKC stood in the background, leaving the football decisions to those who knew what they were doing.

Same thing with Dr. jerry Buss. Yes, people know where he stands. he stands behind the solid basketball people he's brought in to turn the Lakers into consistent champs..

Same thing with George Steinbrenner, who was a disaster as an owner until he was banned from baseball and had to let real baseball men run the Yankees.

Same with Robert Kraft, He stands behind Bellichick etc...

The only thing owners need to own is an intellect high enough to hire good people to run their franchise, and an ego in check enough to let them do it.

Snyder is Oh for two.


Posted by: TheCork | October 3, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse

What, exactly, is the strength of this team now?


Posted by: Alan4

It has two. Marketing and anciliary sales.

Posted by: TheCork | October 3, 2009 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Holmgren wasn't a good GM, Shanahan wasn't either. Besides promoting from within, like Morocco Brown, who would make a good GM for the Redskins? Can't see Casserly back either. Any names stand out? I'm worried that we can't hire anyone with skill because Snyder will want someone who is going to carry out his orders no matter what.

Posted by: will_ga | October 3, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

score more points, win more games!

Posted by: Burrasta | October 3, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Here is the problem, we know the offensive line is a problem, but how many times you see Jim Zorn keep extra blockers for help.

Jim Zorn lost the team early last season when he started taking too much of the credit of the early success and refused to take the blame.

He is simply a very BAD coach who is overmatched each and every time.

He just does not play to his players strength. The bigger problem with a full back who is big and very slow to react, the running back who was converted to a power back and is not a threat in passing game. We cannot keep Sellers to block and send out HB on a route.

we have a QB who does not trust his receivers, the ball comes out too late the the receivers, look at Eli, his receiver turns and the ball is there. We want to make him a West coast QB , he is not a even a good seven stop passer, he has a good long ball, but very inaccurate.

There are a lot of players like Stephon heyer starting in NFL, but the coaches play find a way to hide them.

Jim Zorn is just not creative enough to use the limited talent.

On the Defensive side, the fact of the matter is most super stars freelance. Did anyone hear how Ray Lewis stopped Sporels using his instincts.

I believe the Defensive coaches try to play to much of cerebral football and the players are not able to instincts. We are just not aggressive on the defense.


We all saw on special team how D Thomas was explosive in preseason against the patriots. In regular season, I just saw him return the kicks once. Another example how the coaches are too rigid.


Posted by: dnaik | October 3, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

yeah our front office sucks...go skins

Posted by: BMACattack | October 3, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm going to commit a bit of blasphemy here on RI, but I must commend Dan Snyder for bringing back Joe Gibbs. Looking at the past 15 years, and what Gibbs did with this team during 2.0 has made me respect his abilities as HC even more.

Unfortunately, when Gibbs resigned, he left Snyder in a lurch. Snyder offered him a 2 year contract extension, but Gibbs didn't fulfill the length of the original contract and resigned anyway.

If Gibbs had remained until today, I'm convinced this team would not have some of the glaring weaknesses it has now. Gibbs' teams always had a way of rising to the ocassion when things seemed at their worst.

Posted by: Alan4 | October 3, 2009 9:39 PM | Report abuse

...ok Vinnie your plan for O-Line didnt work. Maybe the worst unit in the entire league. What about your plan for the CBs...ah not so good either. And how about a QB, nope. Wide receiver? Hmmm. Even DLine, how many sacks this year? How about at safety, they all play the same position--oops. TEs, that you got right, we just have too many of them. PR/KR nothing special...oy vey Vinnie.

Vinnie, errr exactly what is it that you do know how to do well...or even mediocre?


Post of the day....

Posted by: RedskinWillie | October 3, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

If we get down on the goal line tommorow, and Zorn wants to go for it again on 4th and 1, or any short yardage situation, can we PLEASE not run to the LEFT!!!

What happened to up the middle? Also, plays ran to the right seemed to work well last week.

How about faking left, and rolling out right w/the option to throw or run? JC should be able to handle that.

ALERT TO GREG BLACHE:

BLITZ!BLITZ!BLITZ!BLITZ!BLITZ!BLITZ!BLITZ!

it tends to cause SACKS!!, rattle, confuse, and cause inexperienced QB's to make mistakes, hurry throws, which lead to fumbles, and interceptions.

Didn't appear you knew that.

Posted by: 72Redskins | October 3, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Vinnie, errr exactly what is it that you do know how to do well...or even mediocre?

Posted by: RedskinWillie | October 3, 2009 9:50 PM

Don't forget that Vinnie has something most of the NFL only wishes they had -- a Super Bowl ring.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | October 3, 2009 10:18 PM | Report abuse

yeah Vinny may have a Super Bowl ring but I don't think it's because of anything he did, more like he lucked up....right place, right time.

Posted by: 72Redskins | October 3, 2009 10:20 PM | Report abuse

can we PLEASE not run to the LEFT!!!

Posted by: 72Redskins | October 3, 2009 9:58 PM

----------

To heck with it.

I say we run left.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 3, 2009 10:28 PM | Report abuse

Nothing positive to say.

Hopefully, by this time tmrw, this will have changed...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 3, 2009 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Why is it that every player and coach interview I've seen, no one on the Redskins admits that running left is predictable?

Am I missing something?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 3, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Saw Jim Zorn on a TV show tonight, and he looks like he has new caps on his teeth and is down to an acceptable on-air weight.

He's for show, not for coaching.

I've said it before:

Redskins: NFL Football Team as
Monkees: Beatles

Posted by: Xlnt | October 3, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

It's because they called the play to work, Chia. Duh! They didn't call run-to-the-left expecting that its high predictability would undermine its success!

Look, they're not trying to fail, they're just not particularly good when they try to succeed.

Or something.

Beer me... hope things are great out your way, Chia.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 3, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Zorn...here is something about the NFL that you seem to not be aware of: "The team that scores the most points, wins the game." I know that this may seem a little foreign to you but it really is true.

Posted by: pennstate1 | October 3, 2009 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Redskins: NFL Football Team as
Monkees: Beatles

Posted by: Xlnt | October 3, 2

Nice analogy. I hope it proves to be wrong after tomorrow though.

Posted by: will_ga | October 3, 2009 11:02 PM | Report abuse

I'll tune back in when the REDSKINS win another game. Till then too-doo-loo.

Posted by: glawrence007 | October 3, 2009 11:06 PM | Report abuse

pennstate1, take it easy, pal... Zorn's probably got PTSD from all those years scrambling for his life with the Seahens.

It may not be entirely clear to him what criteria are used to evaluate a team's performance on any given play, much less the accomplishments of each team relative to one another at the conclusion of a full game.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 3, 2009 11:20 PM | Report abuse

On the other hand, the dude sure as hell knows from medium. Career record of 44-62 as a starter, and in his two best seasons the Seahawks went 9-7. Career QB rating of 67.3, career completion % of 53.0, career TDs 111, career INTs 141. Stay medium, brother.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Z/ZornJi00.htm

Hmm... now that I'm looking at these numbers, I can't help wondering why just about everyone in the Northwest is locked into a love affair with Jim Zorn. I guess it was his gee-whiz pluck, his haircut, his short shorts? Maybe his mediumness looked really terrific in the context of that awful expansion team.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 3, 2009 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

Do you think that the play's high predictability decreases it's chance for success?

Just curious...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | October 3, 2009 11:42 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I do think that. Since one of the games-within-the-game is the defense guessing what play the offense will call in any given situation, high predictability means the defense will have a better chance to guess right and stuff it. Viz: every time we've run left the past two weeks.

Do you disagree? Or are you suggesting that predictability has less influence than, say, execution? I wouldn't disagree with that, but I'm saying predictability is a factor, that's all.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 4, 2009 12:02 AM | Report abuse

Portis is not only a has-been.. he's a never-was! Get hom OUT and the O-line will definately look better!

Posted by: OMFG | October 3, 2009 3:43 PM
====================================

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Portis is the 2nd leading rusher in Redskins history. 2nd only to Riggins. He had 1500+ yards per season for the first 4 seasons of his career and averages 1,300 yards per season with 4.5 yards per carry.

sorry to be blunt, but you are a football idiot!

that same OL gave up the 3rd most sacks in football last year but it's Portis who is the problem?

Posted by: ProfessorWrightBSU | October 4, 2009 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Redskins: NFL Football Team as

Monkees: Beatles

Posted by: Xlnt |

Yes except, even the Monkees became embarrassed enough they learned how to play their instruments. And Daydream Believer is a great song.

Posted by: TheCork | October 4, 2009 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Acording to the article by Rick Maase the defense also having a lot of angst and is questioning just about everything. The only thing they don't appear to be questioning is the one thing they should be: the talent.

The fact is this defense does not have the talent they think they have. D. Hall and Rodgers have struggled when in man coverage. Orakpo is a rookie converted to linebacker. Maybe that best for him in the long term. In the short term its a disaster. Fletcher its what? 34 years old? Thats pretty old in NFL terms for a middle linebacker. Can he really go the entire season being responsible for all those tackles on the RB? Has he maybe lost a step? Despite having Haynesworth and using Orakpo as DE on third downs they still can't seem to get consistent pressure on the QB. Sure, they could blitz more but see theres that issue with man coverage again. They've demoted the starting SS and still have Landry playing FS when many apparently feel his natural position is at SS. And it looks like age has (finally?) caught up to Phillips.

This week they appear to have caught a break. If they focus on stopping the running game its likely the QB won't be able to beat them. Despite the odds makers point spread it's likely to be another 9-7 type game though

Posted by: elkiii_2008 | October 4, 2009 12:44 AM | Report abuse

WHA? The Monkees rule, maybe not Beatles rule...but rule.

Xint must not have seen Head

more like:

Redskins: NFL Football Team as

Monkees: Color Me Badd

Posted by: chrislarry | October 4, 2009 12:45 AM | Report abuse

As long as that Gerbronie Snyder owns this team and/ or is involved in football operations.
This team will stink.

Posted by: dashriprock | October 4, 2009 12:52 AM | Report abuse

Just Read 3's a Cloud, Seems to me that the oppents WR are getting off the line scott free. I say smash em in the mouth,knock em down, anyway, anyhow, allllllllllll day LONG !

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | October 4, 2009 1:00 AM | Report abuse

I saw Peter Tork late at night in a coffee place in Marina del Rey a few years ago...

I'm pretty sure the Monkees could beat the Redskins.

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 4, 2009 1:10 AM | Report abuse

Beer me...
Posted by: NateinthePDX

Name the time and the place, my main man, and I'll 'splain to ya why Seahawks fans loved the Zorny one, and why many of us still do.
Except as a head coach of the maroon and black, but, hey, that's fodder for another sort of session.
cL, how you can love the Monkees and hate the Eagles makes me wonder about your musical taste and insight into what it takes to put a tune together.

Posted by: RedskinWillie | October 4, 2009 1:18 AM | Report abuse

When I watch replays of the successful qb's this year, I ask myself "can JC make that throw?" Except for Manning, Brees, and Brady (when he's on) I answer 'yes.' So what's happening?
Flacco's receivers make plays; Manninges' receivers make plays; their o-lines give them time to throw; their COACHES LET THEM THROW THE BALL.
The Redskins haven't had quality receiver coaching since Charley Taylor retired. Listening to the nitpicking on JC makes me wonder what so many of you seem blinded to. Is Mark Rypien better than JC? Doug Williams? (yes, in his prime, but Doug was a leader with the right team at the right time).
Joe Bugel has been trying to make a silk purse from a hog's ear since the Hogs retired.
Unless these receivers step up and make plays, that draft was a bust.
If what you been doing hasn't worked, change the game. If these players fail to show some pride, fire, and sense of urgency, BLOW THIS TEAM UP and start over. Play the young guys for the rest of the year, Let JC sling it all over the field, bring the hammers of hell like Ritchie Pettibon used to do on defense, and at least make the games entertaining like they were in Sonny's prime.
This 'medium' crap ain't working; go for the gusto and what happens, happens.

Posted by: pdfordiii | October 4, 2009 3:11 AM | Report abuse

We're going to TROUNCE the Bucs by 1 point today! I can feel it.

Posted by: chasgiffen | October 4, 2009 3:54 AM | Report abuse

From RI: "To me, the worst thing about last week's 19-14 loss isn't the embarrassment of being the opponent against whom Detroit ended its 19-game losing streak. It's that if the Redskins could lose to the Lions, they potentially could lose to every team on the rest of their schedule. The loss, coupled with the ongoing struggle to score, stirs serious questions about Washington's outlook with 13 games left."

Ahem. A litle late to the party, aren't we dude? It's more like the Giants game and that infamous 3 DB whiff on Manningham that told us the season was down the drain. At this point, Oak is the only game of the last 8 that the Skins have a fighting chance of winning. But something tells me that by the ninth game the Skins will be playing for pride so at that point it won't matter anymore anyway. The silver lining? The Skins seem to have most if not all their draft picks in tack in a year when they will have the advantage of picking early in each round. They did surrender their 3rd rounder for Jarmon, which, in retrospect seems to be a questionable move.

A good draft, especially at QB, plus a new coaching staff that is (a) knowledgeable and well versed in a O system (WCO), (b) innovative on D and (c) demands discipline and some overdue housecleaning - Portis for one - could mean a big flip in 2010.

Posted by: FreekyGeeky | October 4, 2009 5:42 AM | Report abuse

Hmm... now that I'm looking at these numbers, I can't help wondering why just about everyone in the Northwest is locked into a love affair with Jim Zorn. I guess it was his gee-whiz pluck, his haircut, his short shorts? Maybe his mediumness looked really terrific in the context of that awful expansion team.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 3, 2009 11:27 PM |

Hey, and all of us are sitting here wondering why everyone no-biggied Polanski's pedophilia back in 70's.

Posted by: FreekyGeeky | October 4, 2009 5:46 AM | Report abuse

... their draft picks in tack ...

Posted by: FreekyGeeky | October 4, 2009 5:42 AM |

I meant "intact". What can I say? Some of the recall cells had hit the snooze button.

Posted by: FreekyGeeky | October 4, 2009 5:51 AM | Report abuse

It never ceases to amaze me how WaPo's sports journalists can excel at stating the obvious. Two examples: Sally Jenkins' article about Snyder and J Reid's post at the beginning of this thread. LMAO.

Posted by: FreekyGeeky | October 4, 2009 5:57 AM | Report abuse

As long as that Gerbronie Snyder owns this team and/ or is involved in football operations.
This team will stink.

Posted by: dashriprock | October 4, 2009 12:52 AM |

Did youse mean jabone?

jabone - pron: "juh-boni"; Italian slang for "azzhole".

Posted by: FreekyGeeky | October 4, 2009 6:08 AM | Report abuse

"cL, how you can love the Monkees and hate the Eagles makes me wonder about your musical taste and insight into what it takes to put a tune together."

Willie, my man:

Steppin Stone > Hotel California...

nuff said!

Posted by: chrislarry | October 4, 2009 7:04 AM | Report abuse

Heyer practices hart and does the best he can, but he just hasn't played well in pass-protection or the running game. He has had major breakdowns in protection at big moments in games

I just don't get all the hate on Heyer. I have watch the games and he doesn't play as awful as Ried is reporting.

Posted by: jm220 | October 4, 2009 7:23 AM | Report abuse

"cL, how you can love the Monkees and hate the Eagles makes me wonder about your musical taste and insight into what it takes to put a tune together."

Willie, my man:

Steppin Stone > Hotel California...

nuff said!

Posted by: chrislarry | October 4, 2009 7:04 AM |

Both bands were derivative, the Monks channelling the Beatles, the Eegs the Byrds. The difference being that the Eegs were professional musicians (especially J. D. Souther, the band's songwriter) and the Monks were not. And the Eegs had a better name - eagle being a type of bird, monkee being a poor joke.

Posted by: FreekyGeeky | October 4, 2009 7:34 AM | Report abuse

Wow....Just Wow....

Reid hates on the team more than any of our fans. To him, the whole OLine needs to be replaced. And it's back-ups.

Seriously? Am I supposed to believe this?

Also, Reid, you stated that Detriot has over 30 new players. That means 60% of yhe roster wasn't here for the losing streak.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 4, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Any way to convince Snyder to sell the team to Leonsis? He knows how to run a team.

Posted by: rdrunner82 | October 4, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I think the Mayor really picked at the open sore that is the offensive line. The elephant sitting in the living room is: if Williams is really that bad that he cannot take Heyer's job, then why keep him around? THAT makes no sense to me. The team has had opportunities to sign someone else and yet, they stick with Williams. They let J. Bridges go - who had playing experience at both tackle and guard - and stuck with Williams. They opened a roster spot when they put Thomas on IR, which would have been a good opportunity to sign or trade for a versatile veteran with guard-tackle experience, and yet they signed a running back. I am hoping for that "ah-ha" moment when Mike Williams steps on the field and plays like the second coming of Joe Jacoby, but the longer the season moves on with Heyer still in the job, I, like Mr. Mayor, must wonder what the heck the plan is for right tackle.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 4, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

FWIW,

I just flew back in from LA and on the way there I had a layover in Charlotte. Joe Theismann was in Charlotte and I had a chance to talk to him. I asked him what is the real problem the Skins have? His answer was D. I mentioned JC locks on etc, he agreed but said the D is THE problem.

Of course, this is from a QB.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | October 4, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

balls

....just because

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 4, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

wow - Joe said it was the D....interesting

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 4, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Beep beep

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | October 4, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

When Zorn is quoted as saying he hopes we continue to get the same kind of play out of the defense as they have done in the first three games, that should be enough to usher him out of town. If we continue to get that kind of play, we're looking at 1-15. I'm afraid Jim is out of his element.

Posted by: scribebob | October 4, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

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