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Alexander has triumphant return home

Versatile defensive tackle Lorenzo Alexander had a big game playing in front of family and friends in his return to Oakland, Calif.

A native of Berkeley and a three-year starter at defensive tackle for the University of California, where he earned a bachelor's degree in legal studies, Alexander made two impressive tackles on kickoff coverage and had one of the team's season-high eight sacks. The defensive line had its best performance of the season despite again playing without Pro Bowl defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, who missed his third game because of an ankle injury. The Redskins also were without injured Pro Bowlers DeAngelo Hall (knee) and Mike Sellers (thigh).

"It's a team game," Alexander said. "I mean, those guys are great players but they don't define our team. They make us better but they're not going to win the game. Everybody stepped up in their absence and we were able to finish off the game. That's what you want to have happen."

By Jason Reid  |  December 14, 2009; 3:07 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Haynesworth expected to practice

Comments

Wish we had more players like Lo Alexander!

Posted by: frmi | December 14, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

"Are people not entitled to change their minds? I mean, until Jason Campbell leads the team to several 4th quarter come from behind wins, until he gets the team into the playoffs and wins, and until he brings home a championship we who believe he is incapable of that are right, and those that do are wrong."

That's one of the most flawed senses of logic I've seen written on this blog in a long, long time.

Good thing we now know that Matt Ryan, Josh Freeman, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Mark Sanchez, Vince Young, and Jason Campbell are all incapable of winning anything of substance. After all, if it hasn't happened before, it clearly means they are incapable. And don't argue with me, because past evidence says that I'm right, and anybody that claims to believe anyone of these guys are capable of winning a playoff game are 100% wrong.

Posted by: psps23 | December 14, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Alexander callin' out the starters... nice.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 14, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Wish we had more players like Lo Alexander!

Posted by: frmi

If we played the Raiders more often, a lot of guys would look that good

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

lol@zz

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 14, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

how bad is jamarcus russell.....I mean, beyond just not caring an ounce about the game, he's just a poor excuse for a football player.....that is a devastating blow to that franchise....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 14, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Wish we had more players like Lo Alexander!

Posted by: frmi

If we played the Raiders more often, a lot of guys would look that good

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I really do wish we had more players like Lornenzo. He dosent get the field time he deserves but he always shows up. Great on ST and who knows how many positions we have moved him in and out of.

Posted by: Stu27 | December 14, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

guess we should just completely disregard whether a QB is good in the 2 minute drill or not. Oh wait that's kind of important.

Posted by: REXskins

Yes, it's very important if you win. JC doesn't.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 14, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Is Alexander the only guy Mr. Reid can get an interview with?


Sheeeez.....

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

guess we should just completely disregard whether a QB is good in the 2 minute drill or not. Oh wait that's kind of important.

Posted by: REXskins

Yes, it's very important if you win. JC doesn't.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 14, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

well we can agree on that. Cutler has been HORRIBLE!!

Posted by: AdamCr | December 14, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Fred Davis was flagged for gestures made with his hands. The league is cracking down on hand gestures that could potentially be gang signs.

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 14, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Good thing we now know that Matt Ryan, Josh Freeman, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Mark Sanchez, Vince Young, and Jason Campbell are all incapable of winning anything of substance. After all, if it hasn't happened before, it clearly means they are incapable. And don't argue with me, because past evidence says that I'm right, and anybody that claims to believe anyone of these guys are capable of winning a playoff game are 100% wrong.

Posted by: psps23 | December 14, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Psps, perhaps you struggle with reading comprehension, I wasn't saying you can't believe in him, or that you can't argue for him. And I didn't say that you can't argue with me about him. What I did say is for you to understand that you have precious little evidence in your favor when you say that Campbell can do all those things. And every year more evidence mounts against him as he fails to win games late, lead a winning team, and even make the playoffs much less win in them. Of your list there, Matt Ryan has already had a winning season and made the playoffs, Freeman and Sanchez are rookies, Vince Young already has more come from behind victories than Campbell, and Aaron Rodgers is only in his second year as a starter but has much better numbers despite being sacked more than JC and has his team at 9 and 4 and more than likely in the playoffs as a wild card team. Tony Romo I happen to think can't win anything of substance but has a much better career record than JC and has gotten the Cowboys in the playoffs. So again other than two rookies (of which Sanchez' team still has a legit shot at the playoffs and his team's offense look awful with Clemens in for him yesterday) your list there already surpasses JC in terms of success and he's in his 5th year. I'm not sure what your point was with that, but my point remains, you are arguing on potential with no supporting evidence and just have a bunch of ifs and maybes as your reasoning for saying he can do any of that.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

how bad is jamarcus russell.....I mean, beyond just not caring an ounce about the game, he's just a poor excuse for a football player.....that is a devastating blow to that franchise....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 14, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Jamrcus is too slow. Granted we were getting good pressure but there is a point at which it becomes the QBs fault for not getting rid of the ball. That point has been determined to be around 2.7-3.0 seconds. Jamrcus holds the ball for 4-5. It's not like he has an Alan Barbre or Stephon Heyer whiffing blocks. Now the question should be why is he still that slow? Bruce Gradkowski came in and under a year was able to fire that ball out and make plays in under 2.5 seconds. Why can't Jamarcus do that? My bet is that #1 he's dumb and #2 he doesn't work hard enough in practice. It's funny because the 2 biggest issues with him during the draft were intellignece and work ethic. This was well known before the draft yet Al Davis took him anyway. Sometimes draft picks bust. Sometimes teams just make stupid picks.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 14, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

how bad is jamarcus russell.....I mean, beyond just not caring an ounce about the game, he's just a poor excuse for a football player.....that is a devastating blow to that franchise....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 14, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sports/blogs/redskins-confidential/Redskins-Raiders-review-Studs-and-duds-79238762.html

Studs

LB/DE Brian Orakpo. This might be the best pick of Vinny Cerrato’s career because of where he got him (13th overall). Orakpo’s first of his four sacks came as a standup linebacker – it would be wrong to abandon having him rush from a two-point stance – when he got through the tight end first and then the running back. What I also like is how nimble his feet are; twice the Raiders tried to cut him low and he avoided the block and got in on the play. He also recorded sacks via different ways: with power, speed and both. And a few times the design of the rush left him with one guy to beat. For example, there was one sack in which Justin Fargas was in the backfield waiting to help the tackle. But as Orakpo patiently rushed at the tackle. Fargas then slid inside to take on London Fletcher, who showed blitz – but only to draw Fargas. Left alone, Orakpo beat Mario Henderson wide. Outstanding.

QB Jason Campbell. Hard to believe they might actually let him go after what is clearly the best season of his career, when considering the circumstances. He gets poor protection yet as he runs up into the pocket his eyes remain downfield. Two touchdowns, no interceptions and no fumbles given the amount of hits yesterday? Hard to beat. It helps

RB Quinton Ganther (runner). He only had 50 yards rushing, but did have a 42-yard catch. What he does well is break tackles and make defenders miss. He had consecutive runs where he gained a combined six extra yards after first contact on tough runs through the left side.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

divi,

yes, the athletes of today are bigger and stronger and faster, but the QB's are more protected as are the O-lineman and the WR's. Playing QB then was harder due to those variables.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 14, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

cont

DE Andre Carter. Had two sacks. Again, the design of the rushes left him one-on-one enough times to do damage. Played contain well and had a couple backside tackles.

DT Kedric Golston. A very underrated player. Uses leverage as well as most players and it led to tackles and clogged lanes. Golston played the run well. Want to know why Orakpo got two of his sacks? Because Golston went where he should on a stunt, finding a way to occupy two blockers and, one time, obstructing the vision of the guard enough to let Orakpo slip to the middle.

PK Graham Gano. How about the new kid? Nobody looked more relieved than Gano after his 46-yard field goal than the rookie. But as much as that, his kickoffs were excellent. He pinned the Raiders into the corner twice and had two touchbacks. His worst kickoff came after the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty when his line drive led to a long return.

TE Fred Davis. He’s on this list a lot lately and well-deserved. Did a nice job on his first touchdown catch, getting to the middle and then cutting hard back to his left to get open. His block on the Santana Moss screen inside the 10-yard line highlighted his athleticism.

FB Todd Yoder. The Redskins used more I-formation in the second half and Yoder made it work with some good lead blocks. He cleared an opening on one touchdown for Ganther. Considering he’s not a fullback, Yoder did a nice job.
DL Lorenzo Alexander. Best plays came in punt coverage when he recorded tackles in the open field, no small feat for a guy his size. Also had a sack late in the game.

S LaRon Landry (when not in man coverage): Used up near the line most of the time and had some strong hits. He blitzed well. Preview of things to come? Or was it because the Redskins wanted to blitz more and knew the Raiders would not be able to go downfield. Plus his interception helped

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

So again other than two rookies (of which Sanchez' team still has a legit shot at the playoffs and his team's offense look awful with Clemens in for him yesterday) your list there already surpasses JC in terms of success and he's in his 5th year. I'm not sure what your point was with that, but my point remains, you are arguing on potential with no supporting evidence and just have a bunch of ifs and maybes as your reasoning for saying he can do any of that.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Which is fine, if you want to believe in him and think he can do any of that, that's great. But you and pabrian, and PA need to stop acting like people are "stupid" for thinking that an upgrade at QB is needed. Five years of evidence would suggest it does. I happen to think there are more glaring needs to be addressed first, AND I'm not sure there really are "upgrades" available this year. But I also think JC is a big problem that eventual will need to be fixed for this team to have sustained success. He has flashes of great play, and stretches of nice games, surrounded but bad, inaccurate, and poor decisions filled with late game unheroics and falling short where it counts, the win loss record. But don't act like a few good games in losses and a win against the Raiders makes him immune to criticism, that everyone should shut up and just accept that he can win. IF he was still a rookie or second year guy you wouldn't get much argument, but he's had 5 years and worked with a lot of great coaches with great reputations and great past success and has done nothing to prove he can be a success.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

cont

Duds

RB Quinton Ganther (pass protection). He went the wrong way on at least two occasions leading to unblocked blitzers who drilled Jason Campbell. Ganther is a willing blocker and his chips on ends are excellent; he does so with violence and knocks them back. But he must improve at learning where to go. On one blitz, when he was to the left of Campbell, he only looked middle and to the right. He never saw a defender to his left. On the snap, Ganther went to his right and the blitzer went past him for the hit.

WR Antwaan Randle El. He dropped a pass and his punt returns, once again, were brutal. He let one punt roll way too far and then he dropped another. Not a good day for him.

LT Levi Jones. Was beaten way too often and mostly because he did not use his feet well. Found himself reaching too much with his hands and that led to him getting off-balance on a few occasions. The turf was horrible so it appeared many linemen on both teams had a tough time; they’d try to plant and could not. But it doesn’t explain everything.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

cont

RT Stephon Heyer. Allowed a sack; again he appeared to have trouble setting one time because of the turf. But overall did not have a strong game. Got knocked off-balance a few times; had help on many occasions. Got beat by a linebacker on a rush where he lunged at him and missed.

S LaRon Landry (man coverage). Darren McFadden and Zach Miller got him in one-on-one coverage, partly because Landry did not have his eyes in the right place. Sean Taylor used to be able to cover in the slot; that’s not Landry’s strength at all. The coaches realized this and ended this strategy early. Blame them for putting him in that position.

LG Derrick Dockery. Was too upright and that landed him in trouble. Got shoved back a couple times forcing a deep cut by the running back. Lunged at Richard Seymour one time and missed.

Posted by: TWISI | December 14, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

"He's (Jason Campbell)who has won NOTHING..."


A Short List of Pro Athletes Who've Won 'Nothing':

A Short List of Pro Athletes Who've Won 'Nothing':


Archie Manning

Dan Marino

Dan Fouts

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Barry Sanders

Pat Ewing

I'll stop now.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse


Wish we had more players like Lo Alexander!

Posted by: frmi

If we played the Raiders more often, a lot of guys would look that good

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 14, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse


I don't think the opponent had anything to do with Lorenzo's work ethic, high motor, and special teams ability which is why I think he is a fan favorite.

Posted by: goose33 | December 14, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

twis, great stuff, thanks for posting.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 14, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

how bad is jamarcus russell.....I mean, beyond just not caring an ounce about the game, he's just a poor excuse for a football player.....that is a devastating blow to that franchise....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 14, 2009 3:27 PM


I loved the close ups on J. Russell's face during the game with his helmet on, Is there any dumber looking player in the league?

Looks like he cant catch his breath and he is snoring while being awake. He is one fat and slow b1tch, but he got the money...

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 14, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Good thing we now know that Matt Ryan, Josh Freeman, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Mark Sanchez, Vince Young, and Jason Campbell are all incapable of winning anything of substance.
-------------------------------

Ryan has been to the playoffs, lost.

Romo has been to the playoffs, lost.

Young has been to the playoffs, lost.

Sanchez is a rookie, but his team is in position to make the playoffs.

Rodgers is headed for the playoffs this season.

LMAO@ referencing Freeman.. He's played what? 4 games?


But Campbell has never even been to the playoffs, despite having played more games than many of the QBs on this list.

20-29. It is what it is.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Archie Manning

Dan Marino

Dan Fouts

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Barry Sanders

Pat Ewing


I'll stop now.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Donovan McNabb, Jim Kelly, etc.

Anyway, that's what kills me about this conversation. It is certainly debatable about whether or not JC should stick around, no question. But to play the "he hasn't won anything," card is rediculous unless you're talking about a tennis player or a golfer. It's a team sport, guys.

Posted by: mattylight | December 14, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

mistamoe,

I'm stoked that losers make you happy!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 14, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"Fred Davis was flagged for gestures made with his hands. The league is cracking down on hand gestures that could potentially be gang signs."


A lot of black fraternaties have hand-signs.

I'd like to see Davis' routine again.

It looked to me like the Kappa Alpha Psi handsign that frat brothers use to acknowledge each other.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

To insulate JC17 from criticism for failing to score points in the offense is ludicrous.

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

We're not insulating him from criticism. We're simply not blaming him for the losses. He makes mistakes sure but to say he's a bigger problem than our offensive line and play calling is just stupid.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 14, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse


You aren't insulating him from criticism?

OK. Criticize Jason Campbell.

I'd like to hear your assessment of his play - pros/cons...

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"I happen to think there are more glaring needs to be addressed first, AND I'm not sure there really are "upgrades" available this year."

well that's what it really boils down doesnt it? How many qb's are clearly better than JC when you try and factor differences in recievers, olines, etc, etc?

And how do you go about getting one of them?

Is it logical to assume that with a B+ oline instead of a D- crew JC would play better?

So what direction should the team take?

choice looks obvious to me...

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

zj, trust me, I have no problems with reading comprehension. You may have some with expressing your thoughts through words, but that's a different story.

In case you couldn't understand the point, you're arguing for an absolute based on past evidence from a guy who's career is ongoing. In 6th grader's terms, you are saying a guy cannot do something because he has not done something. I shouldn't have to explain to you why that is a weak argument.

But I'll help you out. What you're really trying to say is that you're skeptical Campbell will ever be able to accomplish those feats because he hasn't done it yet.

Which is fine. Even I'm a little skeptical, and I've been arguably his biggest defender on this blog. But spelling it out as an absolute is one of the least logical arguments you can come up with.

BTW, that was just an off-the-top-of-my-head list. Don't forget Carson Palmer and Matt Schaub as guys that are incapable of winning anything of substance.

Posted by: psps23 | December 14, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

"Are people not entitled to change their minds? I mean, until Jason Campbell leads the team to several 4th quarter come from behind wins, until he gets the team into the playoffs and wins, and until he brings home a championship we who believe he is incapable of that are right, and those that do are wrong."

That's one of the most flawed senses of logic I've seen written on this blog in a long, long time.

Good thing we now know that Matt Ryan, Josh Freeman, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Mark Sanchez, Vince Young, and Jason Campbell are all incapable of winning anything of substance. After all, if it hasn't happened before, it clearly means they are incapable. And don't argue with me, because past evidence says that I'm right, and anybody that claims to believe anyone of these guys are capable of winning a playoff game are 100% wrong.

Posted by: psps23 | December 14, 2009 3:20 PM

Whoever said it is semi-right, but over the top with it. JC17 doesn't have any 4th QTR defining moments that we all look for in QBs.

Romo, Young, Ryan, Sanchez, and Rodgers all have atleast one. Cambell doesn't belong in that group of names quite yet. Though, Romo doesn't either.

JC17 still has accuracy issues as well.

Just trying to be fair and balanced......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 14, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Archie Manning

Dan Marino

Dan Fouts

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Barry Sanders

Pat Ewing

I'll stop now.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

nice try moe, but that list is all prolific successes filled with mutiple pro bowls, all star appearances, playoff runs, and even championship or Superbowl appearances. Don't pretend JC is anywhere near any of those guys. If he was consistently throwing for close to 4000 yards, 25 Tds, and making regular playoff appearances you could put him on that list. He hasn't come close to any of that. He still hasn't gotten close to Brad Johnson's last full season as a starter here.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 14, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

how bad is jamarcus russell.....I mean, beyond just not caring an ounce about the game, he's just a poor excuse for a football player.....that is a devastating blow to that franchise....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 14, 2009 3:27 PM


He looks to be the worst No.1 overall pick in the history of the NFL.

Any arguments?

Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 14, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Doesnt JC have 7 game winning drives in the 4th quarter?

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 14, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

You aren't insulating him from criticism?

OK. Criticize Jason Campbell.

I'd like to hear your assessment of his play - pros/cons...


Posted by: p1funk | December 14, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

How about you list his pros and I'll list his cons?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 14, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

Theoretically, if JC17 ever got to Pro-Bowl status, I have a hunch the knocks on him wouldn't stop. It would just turn into "well, he can't win in the playoffs," etc.

I think my point is if you look at the Redskins over the past 5 years, you'd see a team with a ceiling of being a wild card playoff team at best, which is what we were for 2 of the 4 seasons Gibbs was around. We're just not that good of a team. So, and it's just my opinion, but you could insert any one of a handful of better QB's and the results would be better, but no championships. And that's all that matters, right?

Posted by: mattylight | December 14, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Fred Davis was flagged for gestures made with his hands. The league is cracking down on hand gestures that could potentially be gang signs.

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 14, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Fred was flagged for using the Deshawn Stevenson "Can't See Me" gesture.

The NFL is cracking down on imitating bad NBA players who taunt LeBron at the most inappropriate times

Posted by: TheDirtySanchez | December 14, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Archie Manning

Dan Marino

Dan Fouts

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Barry Sanders

Pat Ewing


I'll stop now.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

You should.

With the exception of Manning, all those guys have been to and won playoffs games.

Campbell hasn't even led his team to a playoff game yet.

Is he the next Archie Manning? Maybe.

That's not something I'd be proud of.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

It boils down to how many qb's are clearly better than JC? The list is much shorter than most of his detractors want to admit, and when you see names like Sanchez and Colt Brennan being tossed around you realize some folks just dont want him as the qb regardless of anything else.

Posted by: divi3 | December 14, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

A lot of black fraternaties have hand-signs.

I'd like to see Davis' routine again.

It looked to me like the Kappa Alpha Psi handsign that frat brothers use to acknowledge each other.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 14, 2009 3:50 PM

I wasn't implying that he was in a gang. He grew up in the Bay Area and went to USC, I'm sure he was giving a shout out.

This is what the NFL is looking for and any hand gesture will lead to a flag. Keep in mind, you've got fat old white guys wearing the stripes and they wouldn't know the difference.

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 14, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Sanchez is 6-6

Colt is 0-0

Campbell is 20-29

You do the math

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 14, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

I just want to see Campbell engineer a late game-winning TD drive against the Giants or Cowboys. Take command - drive the team down the field. He has had several opportunities to do it during his career but has NEVER delivered. Often he looks clumbsy and confused when placed in those pressure situations. Who was the last Redskin qb that was competent enough to do what Brees did at Fed Ex Field last week?

Posted by: coparker5 | December 14, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse

Best case scenario 2010-11 OL:

RT- Jason Alexander
RG- Frasier
C- Kramer
LG- Elaine
LT- E. Woods (with driver)

Posted by: ElYeah | December 14, 2009 11:54 PM | Report abuse

Campbell will do it. If not here, then somewhere else. We'll have Hipster Colt battling against Flava DaMonth when it does.

I wish we could see ourselves in our Philadelphia Fan brethren. They still hate McNabb!

How absurd is THAT?!?!

Sometimes, the grass just LOOKS greener. You put about 29 other QBs behind center in Philadelphia and the Eagles have OUR record.

OH, but he's "never done it," either. Well, neither did anybody else... until they did it.

Posted by: Thinker_ | December 15, 2009 5:39 AM | Report abuse

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