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Analysis: Behind the Sherman Lewis Hiring

The decision to add Sherman Lewis, a longtime assistant in West Coast offenses, as a consultant might be Redskins owner Daniel Snyder's last-ditch effort to convince himself not to make a coaching change during the season.

In the last few weeks, we've been hearing a lot about Snyder seeking answers from Coach Jim Zorn as to why the team has struggled to score. A confidante of Executive Vice-President of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato, on the condition his name not be used, recently said that lingering concern over Zorn's inability to make Jason Campbell more effective in the West Coast offense - and particularly out of the shotgun - was weighing on management's mind.

Ultimately, though, the move indicates Snyder's lack of confidence in Zorn and his top lieutenants on offense -- offensive coordinator Sherman Smith and assistant head coach-running backs Stump Mitchell.

The Redskins have continued to sputter on offense (they rank 27th in scoring with an average of 14 points) and speculation about Zorn's job security grew after the demoralizing loss to the lowly Detriot Lions in Week 3. Snyder hired Zorn as an offensive coordinator and quickly promoted him to head coach, although Zorn had never held either job in the NFL until Snyder gave them to him. To remove him without giving Zorn at least two full seasons would be a rash move, even given Snyder's history.

But it has always seemed likely that Zorn would only get 32 games - at most. In an interview before the season, Cerrato said he believed in evaluating the coaching situation as he goes along. So Zorn has been week-to-week since he arrived in Ashburn, if not day-to-day.

Multiple sources, who have requested anonymity, have said that Snyder told people he would have fired Zorn if the Redskins had lost in Week 16 last season to the Philadelphia Eagles at FedEx Field. The Redskins held on at the end to win, lost their last game on the road to the San Francisco 49ers and finished 8-8 after a 6-2 start.

For a rookie play-caller and head coach to have finished .500 in his first season with the Redskins' weak offensive line, well, things could have been worse. Obviously, though, Snyder viewed matters differently.

And now Sherman Lewis has been hired. During the interview process, two of the coaching candidates Snyder interviewed after Joe Gibbs retired said they were told they would only be permitted to hire one assistant coach because of the money Snyder was still paying to members of Gibbs's staff no longer with the team. Zorn eventually made three major hires for his staff - Smith, Mitchell and offensive assistant Chris Meidt. John Palermo was hired to replace defensive line coach Greg Blache, who was promoted to defensive coordinator.

Now Lewis is in that mix; he reported to work Tuesday at Redskins Park. It would seem likely that he will quickly determine that the Redskins need to get much better on the offensive line, add a speed back to the running game, run routes as they're supposed to be run in the West Coast offense and improve the talent level overall on offense. Or perhaps he'll determine coaching is the Redskins' only problem.

By Jason Reid  |  October 6, 2009; 10:00 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Vote: What's Your Take on the Lewis Hire?

Comments

first?

Posted by: jpt1002 | October 6, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

sweet i'd like to thank baby Jesus for the win

Posted by: jpt1002 | October 6, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Sic-Ricky chill, you start every sunday hopping mad at the team, then calm down during the week....but you know the deal.

ga: I think in isolation the move is ok, I agree that corny zorny could use the help. But this fits a well worn Snyder pattern that has not gone well previously, be it Pepper Rogers, Zampeese, Arnsbarger, Bugel It often is the first step in a Snyder itchy finger which means the whole thing will crumble soon. Someone said earlier that this is a business world solution in a football world, Isn't that Snyder disconnect right there?

Also I do feel that this another Pepper Rogers in that he has been out of football for awhile and that his claim to fame is an offensive system that looks backwards, not forwards and really maps to what Vinny wants/has wanted for awhile, WCO/relive his 49er glory years, instead of fitting talent to new ideas & abilities.

But hey...I hope it works, regardless of what dim bulbs like Pabrian say, I love this team and want to see it win, be respected and fight like rabid dogs. Unfortunately I can hope this happens, but intellectually I don't think it will.

Hail!

Posted by: chrislarry | October 6, 2009 11:14 PM | Report abuse

Great analysis Mr. Reid. This is the best analysis I've seen so far. Keep up the good work!

Posted by: trolly_time | October 6, 2009 11:15 PM | Report abuse

The worst owner in the league (Dan Snyder for you RI apologists who were wondering)does it again. Undermining the other "decision makers".

Posted by: jjredskins | October 6, 2009 11:16 PM | Report abuse

No salary cap on coaches, right?? Knee-jerk reaction in a culture of losing. Too much money invested to start over. 8-8 forever, until Vinny goes at the minimum.

Posted by: furious50 | October 6, 2009 11:17 PM | Report abuse

good post Mayor....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 6, 2009 11:19 PM | Report abuse

If they lose this week, look for Snyder to bring in Bob Slydell and Bob Porter.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 6, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

OMG, DANO does live in a cocoon doesn't he?

NOTE to SNYDER: For the ultimate answer to your dilemma look in a mirror. For the immediate answer look at your offensive line. They looked like one collective sieve in the first quarter of Sunday's game. This against the mighty TAMPA BAY d-line and LB's.

I knew you would have ZORN take the fall for your bungling ineptitude. Get out of the frickin' kitchen and let professionals do their work. If they can't handle the heat, hire someone who can with the understanding that your actions and comments won't eviscerate their standing within the organization. I suppose CAMPBELL's next after a new coach.

Posted by: glawrence007 | October 6, 2009 11:28 PM | Report abuse

and our defense is allowing the opposing team hold the ball for 65% of the time of possession

Posted by: psps23 | October 6, 2009 4:54 PM |
-----------------------------

Ummmm, the other teams have the ball more because the Redskins offense is mostly three-and-out. Occasionally, on good drives, it's five or six plays and out.

I'd have more respect for your post had you just answered: "Never. I'm NEVER going to get off of JC's junk. I love him."

And you might as well just say that; all of your posts telegrapgh that anyway.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | October 6, 2009 11:28 PM | Report abuse

lol. what a farce we have become.

Posted by: cmterpsnskins | October 6, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

When will Snyder just end all of the bullcrap hires and just promote himself as the coach and offensive coordinator and the play caller...then when the team still doesn't win he can fire himself.

Posted by: kickass10101 | October 6, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse

Coaches could only hire 1 assistant? 1 phuking assistant? No wonder no one wanted to come here. 1 phuking assistant!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 6, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse

REID:

You should point out, the defense ranks fifth in scoring allowed to go along with 27th in offensive scoring.

Posted by: glawrence007 | October 6, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

This hurts worse than the past three weeks of fubbal... adding a new deck chair to the Titanic, ugh...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 6, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

kickass10101:

Yup. Pull a TED TURNER. It seems it's our only salvation as a REDSKINS fan.

Posted by: glawrence007 | October 6, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

JC's not bad---I don't think. Frankly, I can't really tell how good or bad he is between running for his life every other play. PSPS23 - he does put up some good stats doesn't he? But that doesn't necessarily make him the next SONNY JURGENSON.

Posted by: glawrence007 | October 6, 2009 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Maybe next Vinny can dig up the corpse of Bill Walsh

Posted by: The_Spear | October 6, 2009 11:48 PM | Report abuse

I'm a little stunned by the comments here. After all, you guys have been complaining about Zorn, his playcalling and our offense for like...FOREVER. But now that they have brought someone in to "help" you think it's horrendous.

I'm not sure how I feel....fresh eyes could be a good thing....but it would have been nice if those "fresh eyes" had been involved in football the last year or two instead of out of football since 2004.

Posted by: Lisa_R | October 6, 2009 11:49 PM | Report abuse

Lisa_R, totally agree a fresh set of ideas could be good on offense but hes been out of the league for 5 years.

Though, was probably the only hack we could find that would want to work in an environment as toxic as this is becoming.

Posted by: m1ke3i6 | October 6, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

Lisa - for me it is seems as if the our owner/GM are simply lining up more fall guys once the real bad losses start piling up when this team meets the teeth of the schedule.

Zorn is out of his element, but that is just one of a string of mind boggling moves orchestrated by Snyder/Cerrato that seem to go against the very premise of building a winning football team in the NFL.

Posted by: The_Spear | October 6, 2009 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Seems some folks are trying to pass off the hiring of Al Saunders by the Ravens as an "offensive consultant" has having really improved their offense. Maybe. Could be though that they actually have a good QB. And a good O'line. And a relatively healthy Todd Heap. Oh, and a running game. Nooooo, couldn't possibly be any of those things.

Posted by: elkiii_2008 | October 6, 2009 11:55 PM | Report abuse

1.) Unless Mr. Lewis can play right tackle, I don't see how he can help us...
2.) How typical is it for Vinny to hire someone that has been unemployed for 2-3 years, what a clown.
2.) That's Vinny's way to try and put the blame on Zorn, however we the fans know very well who is the real problem. Who are the 3.) jokers that brought this once model franchise to disgrace.
4.) Dan Snyder is the biggest loser of the farce we call Washington Redskins, the value of the organization is diminishing as we are becoming the joke of the league
5.) Please someone wake me up and tell me the past 10 years have been just a really bad dream.

Posted by: ibenbassat | October 6, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

@elkiii_2008 - good oline?!?! That's silly, what's more important is giving away draft picks and overpaying for free agents, that's what wins Super Bowls in the modern NFL.

Posted by: The_Spear | October 7, 2009 12:00 AM | Report abuse

I'm a little stunned by the comments here. After all, you guys have been complaining about Zorn, his playcalling and our offense for like...FOREVER. But now that they have brought someone in to "help" you think it's horrendous.

I'm not sure how I feel....fresh eyes could be a good thing....but it would have been nice if those "fresh eyes" had been involved in football the last year or two instead of out of football since 2004.

Posted by: Lisa_R | October 6, 2009 11:49 PM | Report abuse

Exactly my point. Most folks on here were calling for Zorn's head and for something to be done, and when something is done (whether its a good move or not is too early to tell) folks are in an uproar on how unfair it is to poor Zorn and how once again the FO is doing something foolish. What people don't get is the only other thing they can do DURING the season is fire Zorn. No GM will come in mid-season, no free agent OT will come in and solve the protection problems, and Zorn will not magically lift this crappy offense to respectability.

Posted by: ga8085 | October 7, 2009 12:07 AM | Report abuse

1.) Unless Mr. Lewis can play right tackle, I don't see how he can help us...
2.) How typical is it for Vinny to hire someone that has been unemployed for 2-3 years, what a clown.
3.) That's Vinny's way to try and put the blame on Zorn, however we the fans know very well who is the real problem. the 2 jokers that brought this once model franchise to disgrace.
4.) Dan Snyder is the biggest loser of the farce we call Washington Redskins, the value of the organization is diminishing as we are becoming the joke of the league
5.) Please someone wake me up and tell me the past 10 years have been just a really bad dream.

And finally, Lisa - Zorn, good or bad is not the issue, he's just the symptom. Yes his play calling is questionable, he has too many responsibility without the required experience...etc but even if he's out, the fantasy football player that we have as an owner and his Sancho pancho are here to stay until we too end up in chapter 11 like 6flags.

Posted by: ibenbassat | October 7, 2009 12:09 AM | Report abuse

I agree with previous post. This looks like Snyder's prepping for an eventual run at Holmgren. Barring a miracle turnaround I think it's evident that Zorn needs to go. I feel sorry for him though. It bugs me that Snyder screwed up the hire in the first place. Gregg Williams, Rex Ryan, Schwartz, and even Fassel all were much more qualified but for whatever reason Snyder goes with a guy who as Fassel is paraphrased as saying - has never game planned, coordinated or head coached before. In any other situation where someone like Zorn was hired, ownership would show some patience. Here it's Superbowl or bust regardless of the boneheads putting the team together. Just a tough situation all around.

Posted by: skinswest | October 7, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Hey maybe we'll get lucky and Favre will destroy the Packers at Lambeau and cause such an uproar that GM Ted Thompson gets fired so the skins can get him along with Holmgren.

Posted by: skinswest | October 7, 2009 12:22 AM | Report abuse

Lisa, you have to admit it's not a good sign that the Sherminator has been brought in to right the ship, offensively speaking.

I theorized a few days ago that the odds are very low Danny will fire Zorn during the season because he (Danny) looked so bad for firing Norval who, at the time, had a winning record. But I don't think Danny can help himself from meddling where he doesn't belong, and there's plenty of room for him to do things short of firing Zorn during the season.

Putting the word out that he's unhappy with the team's play? Check.

Getting in Zorn's ear all week to talk football? Check.

Hiring someone to "help" a coach who would never admit he needs help? Check.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 7, 2009 12:23 AM | Report abuse

ga8085:

No one came before last season either. Why should things be different now? Same owner.

ibenbassat:

"Zorn.....is not the issue, he's just the symptom." O-o-o-o, well said.

Posted by: glawrence007 | October 7, 2009 12:25 AM | Report abuse

I'm not a Snyder fan at all (was ready to jump him - not in a good way - over the way he treated Campbell in the offseason) BUT I cannot understand why everyone keeps blaming him for things he used to do but really has not done in the last few years.

He gets blamed for the stadium: Totally not his choice or his fault

Coaching turnovers: In the past yes, but truthfully that has not been the case in the last 6-7 years. Spurrier resigned (although he may have been urged to do so) and Gibbs also resigned after 4 seasons. So in reality his last firing was Marty way back when.

Bringing in high profile players: Yes, he brought in Albert Haynesworth but he was a HOT commodity and who could blame him for doing so? What other high profile player did he sign this offseason? I can't think of one - although he may have overpaid for DeAngelo.

Last year, the only high profile player he signed was Jason Taylor and that was done only after Phillip Daniels went down.

The year before that? Randle El? Not really high profile. London Fletcher? Not high profile but worth every penny!

What Snyder is quilty of is overpaying and of course, keeping Vinny but the other things he gets criticized for have not really been relevant in recent years.

Posted by: Lisa_R | October 7, 2009 12:25 AM | Report abuse

I saw on a previous post that Snyder has stadium staff confiscating paper bags and signs from fans as they enter. Maybe a little civil disobedience is in order and more fans should continue to bring bags to games. Nothing major but I bet it'd be a PIA to have to deal with 80,000+ bags at the entrances at each game.

Posted by: skinswest | October 7, 2009 12:31 AM | Report abuse

The truth is Zorn is a good coach and a class act. When the fans rejected Jim Fossil, who probably would have been a good fit with Zorn, Vinny and Danny gave Zorn like three jobs and set him up to fail. Gregg Williams as HC and Zorn as OC would have been nice too, but no. Now it's Sherm Lewis, who has been a pretty good coach when he's not complaining about white coaches getting hired ahead of him. Who knows, maybe it'll help.

Posted by: josettes | October 7, 2009 12:40 AM | Report abuse

I'm not a Snyder fan at all (was ready to jump him - not in a good way - over the way he treated Campbell in the offseason) BUT I cannot understand why everyone keeps blaming him for things he used to do but really has not done in the last few years.

What Snyder is quilty of is overpaying and of course, keeping Vinny but the other things he gets criticized for have not really been relevant in recent years.

Posted by: Lisa_R | October 7, 2009 12:25 AM

My problem with Snyder is that he apparently came into onwership thinking that since he was successful in business he could translate that into running a team successfully. Ten years and it hasn't worked. His unwillingness to hire a GM to run the football operation puts a huge bullseye on him when the team struggles and doesn't live up to the expectations he raises every offseason with big FA signings.

Posted by: skinswest | October 7, 2009 12:44 AM | Report abuse

The truth is Zorn is a good coach and a class act. When the fans rejected Jim Fossil, who probably would have been a good fit with Zorn, Vinny and Danny gave Zorn like three jobs and set him up to fail. Gregg Williams as HC and Zorn as OC would have been nice too, but no. Now it's Sherm Lewis, who has been a pretty good coach when he's not complaining about white coaches getting hired ahead of him. Who knows, maybe it'll help.

Posted by: josettes | October 7, 2009 12:40 AM

I agree completely.

Posted by: skinswest | October 7, 2009 12:48 AM | Report abuse

My problem with Snyder is that he apparently came into onwership thinking that since he was successful in business he could translate that into running a team successfully. Ten years and it hasn't worked. His unwillingness to hire a GM to run the football operation puts a huge bullseye on him when the team struggles and doesn't live up to the expectations he raises every offseason with big FA signings.

Posted by: skinswest

As I stated...what BIG FA signings EVERY offseason? Other than Haynesworth (who most teams wanted) I can't think of a BIG FA signing in recent years. Jason Taylor does not count since he was only brought in due to injury after the season started.


Posted by: Lisa_R | October 7, 2009 12:49 AM | Report abuse

I maintained since Zorn was hired that it is insane to think that one person can handle three job titles: head coach, QB coach and play caller, esp given Zorn's lack of experience.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | October 7, 2009 12:53 AM | Report abuse

An offensive consultant brought in to try and kick start something?
Here you guy tools, I'll kick start something right here:
1. Jason Campbell sucks. He fumbles the ball when there is absolutely no pressure whatsoever.
2. Chris Samuel is our best olineman. (he's had 4 surgeries)
3. Our leading receiver, is a tight end, who would rather be a movie star.
4. Mike Sellers drops balls.
5. Malcolm who?
6. Devon who?
7. Fred who?
8. Randal El is one of the most overrated slot receivers ever.
9. Ladell Betts can't block.
10. Vinny Cerrato.

What is this guy supposed to help with again?
Can he pass protect, not fumble, or score td's?
Nope.
What a dissapointing piece of crap the redskins are this year. Fred Smoot gets out played by Justin Tryon? That really says something about your talent now, doesn't it?

6-10 at best.

Go Ravens.

Posted by: BMACattack | October 7, 2009 12:55 AM | Report abuse

F the Ravens.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 7, 2009 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Lisa, we'll have to agree to disagree on this Sherm Lewis thing. You obviously see it as a positive, a step in the right direction, and I see it as yet another sign of the severe organizational distress that has plagued the Skins during most of Snyder's ownership.

And all the things I cited as evidence of Snyder-as-poor-owner in my 12:23am post were not from years past, but from the past week...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 7, 2009 12:59 AM | Report abuse

Wow, I'm a bit surprised at the conviction... the guy isn't coming in to take over, he's not next year's plash, maybe he can look at some film, watch a practice or two, and make a few suggestions.
I'm not expecting much, but I'd like to hear from as many experts as possible right now.
Hamster Nation has agreed that it's clearly the coaching. Or the QB. Or the fiesta trio. Or the oline. Or CP. Or the overall talent. Or the GM. Or the owner.
Maybe someone can help narrow it down a bit?

Posted by: daggar | October 7, 2009 1:26 AM | Report abuse

Now, on a more serious note, I just saw a replay of Soup's sack/fumble from Sunday. I think the consensus was that Rinehart got bullrushed; however, when watching it this time, Rabach was double-teaming #97, and just fell down after first contact. So Rinehart was off-balance and unable to sustain his block. Do you pin that on Rabach, or Rinehart, or both?

Posted by: daggar | October 7, 2009 1:31 AM | Report abuse

It's the mirrors.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 7, 2009 1:32 AM | Report abuse

Mad if we lose. Mad if we win.

Mad if we sign a FA. Mad if we don't.

Every bad draft pick is carved in stone.

Every good draft pick is swept under the rug.

Mad when Tryon plays bad. Mad when Tryon plays well.

Mad when we Fire'em. Mad when we don't.

Mad when we Hire'em. Mad when we don't.

Mad when we bring in a Big Name.

Mad when we bring in a No Name.

Mad if we Run. Mad if we Pass.

Mad if we're Home. Mad if we're Away.

You've made HYPOCRISY A WAY OF LIFE!

I think you just need to find a NEW TEAM!

YOU'RE NOT FANS, YOU'RE DEAD WEIGHT!

GO DRAG ANOTHER TEAM DOWN. WE DON'T NEED YOU.

Posted by: filmchis | October 7, 2009 2:10 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone catch Ms. Hamilton's wonderful description of being a Redskins' fan? True poetry.

"Other teams may have the football gods on speed dial, but they seem to largely ignore the Redskins, so if you're a fan you should enjoy their rare visits. It's like when your husband brings home flowers unprompted one night -- you know he bought them at the Metro stop, you know they were cheap to begin with and cheaper still because the vendor wanted to empty his buckets, you know he's never done it before and he might never do it again, and there's a good chance he just did it because he got hammered with his friends the weekend before and threw up on the bathroom rug. But still, they're flowers and they're pretty and you figure, this is as good as it gets."

Posted by: Shmempire | October 7, 2009 2:13 AM | Report abuse

It's the mirrors.

Posted by: freakzilla | October 7, 2009 1:32 AM |

Zilla dude. Whassup?

Posted by: FreekyGeeky | October 7, 2009 2:35 AM | Report abuse

Al Saunders working for Ravens? I'm liking that team more and more.

That says something for Cam Cameron, who's a fine OC in his own right. Makes sense, though, considering the visual similarities to the Don Coryell-Joe Gibbs tree of offense the Ravens play.

Posted by: pdfordiii | October 7, 2009 2:56 AM | Report abuse

A couple of comments about the Sherman Lewis development.

1. A Fassell HC/Zorn OC might have worked. It had a lot better chance than the Zorn HC/Zorn OC deal we have now. A Williams HC/Zorn OC would not have worked. A HC needs to be a good manager and Williams lacks in that respect.

2. Bringing Sherman Lewis in shows that the FO has lost confidence in Z and probably isn't too chirpy about Blache either. There are those that are bellyaching about letting Z have at least two years before canning him. But the last 8 games of 2008 and the first 4 of 2009 are troubling. That skein of 12 games has produced very few if any encouraging signs. 12 games is a long span of blackness to endure with a team that has as much talent as the Skins do.

3. Bringing Lewis in will if nothing else give the FO a stepping stone towards firing Z if that is what it comes to. It looks better if you moved in stages than if it is one fell swooperoo.

4. Speaking of PR image, Snyder could score well in that area if he did the same thing for Cerrato that has for Z. Bring in some guy like former Packer GM Ron Wolf to provide an evaluation of overall football operations and provide feedback and suggestions. As bloggers on RI have pointed out, Z may be part of the problem but it ain't all on him, far from it. It would be interesting to see what a guy like Wolf would think about the Three Amigos 2nd round 2008 draft selection.

Posted by: FreekyGeeky | October 7, 2009 3:02 AM | Report abuse

This consultant guy has ties to both Holmgren and Chucky. If Holmgrem were to come here, I think he would want GM duties as well, or at least have a LOT of control over players on the roster via draft, signings, etc. Vinnie would not bring the consultant in with an eye towards Holmgren who would threaten his job would he?

Chucky has a job through the year at MNF. This guy could get the lay of the land for him and then he steps in at the end of the year.

Coaches I would want in descending order:

1. Holmgren. Knows personnel, calling plays, motivating the troops, is an original WCO disciple. A Coach's coach. His demand for GM duties would mean Vinnie hits the trail, which give him the edge over Chucky.

2. Chucky. Is a motivator and grew up in WCO and then the TB defensive scheme. Has experience dealing with front office and ownership dysfunction. The opposite of medium and he would kick butts that needed kicking. Could lose the locker room initially as it would be his way or the highway for sure. Sounds perfect.

3. Cowher. Motivator extraordinaire who demands excellence and professionalism. Bringing him in would mean a complete overhaul of the schemes, but at least there would not be excuse making for unsatisfactory performance on a weekly basis.

4. Everybody else. Everybody else +1. Shanahan. Please please please please let Jerruh fire Big Boy and hire him before Dan gets the chance. Getting him would be like losing it to a pro... it would feel great for a minute or two, then its a lifetime of regret.

The ddamn shame of it all is that I bet Zorn would have been really good at doing what he was brought here to do IF he was not burdened with being the HC. Developing JC and calling plays.... he has no time to get out of that mode to manage the game, and then when he has to manage the game, it detracts from his play calling. During practice, he has got to manage everything instead of just dealing with JC and the offense. During the game, he has no head coach to nudge him towards a different call from time to time when he wants to go off tackle behind Sellers 4 times in a row just to prove to the team they can do it.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | October 7, 2009 4:21 AM | Report abuse

This is just another one of dear Vinni's signings. Let's get some more of people we don't need. This is what he does during draft season.

There is no way this guy helps us. It only disrupts the locker room to no end. Once again he/they have completely ignored what they really need. How many coaches need to take the blame for this team? How many have we had the past 15 years?

Posted by: jspin77 | October 7, 2009 4:33 AM | Report abuse

Soooo glad that this year most of the commenters (and FINALLY the columnists) are getting it - as Riggins said, "the owner's a loser and you can't change that." Go, John!

Posted by: bhrgarden | October 7, 2009 4:46 AM | Report abuse

Coaches I would want in descending order:

1. Holmgren. Knows personnel, calling plays, motivating the troops, is an original WCO disciple. A Coach's coach. His demand for GM duties would mean Vinnie hits the trail, which give him the edge over Chucky.

2. Chucky. Is a motivator and grew up in WCO and then the TB defensive scheme. Has experience dealing with front office and ownership dysfunction. The opposite of medium and he would kick butts that needed kicking. Could lose the locker room initially as it would be his way or the highway for sure. Sounds perfect.

3. Cowher. Motivator extraordinaire who demands excellence and professionalism. Bringing him in would mean a complete overhaul of the schemes, but at least there would not be excuse making for unsatisfactory performance on a weekly basis.

4. Everybody else. Everybody else +1. Shanahan. Please please please please let Jerruh fire Big Boy and hire him before Dan gets the chance. Getting him would be like losing it to a pro... it would feel great for a minute or two, then its a lifetime of regret.
Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe

Please Skinsfan, The only former Coach the Redskins should consider is Dungy. He took the Bucs from nothing to the brink of a championship and then Chucky came in and got (accepted,Took) the credit. Once Dungy's guys got old or retired Chucky got Fired. Dungy then went to the colts and built that team from Chumps to Champs. So why he's not a the TOP of the list just doesn't make since. F. the WCO that sh!t is played out. And the WCO coaches are all Walsh I mean washed up. We need to find our own Tomlinson just like we found Gibbs.


Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 7, 2009 6:01 AM | Report abuse

In the last few weeks, we've been hearing a lot about Snyder seeking answers from Coach Jim Zorn as to why the team has struggled to score.

JReid you must have dog hearing. No one has heard from Synder all year.
Read the other writers at WP

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 7, 2009 6:04 AM | Report abuse

The cry babies stayed up late last night, these are the same idiots saying Zorn should be fired last week.

Bringing in a GM now doesn't matter, there are no better O-Linemen out there.

Zorn's offense sucks I don't care who's fault it is, and if another set of eyes can help us score 20 points in one game this year it would be worth it.

O-Line 9 sacks with a QB that holds the ball to long and has a slow delivery, I think they are playing OK.

O-Line Portis is in the top 10 in rushing.

You O-Line bashers need to look elswhere there not great but there not terrible either.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 6:17 AM | Report abuse

JReid you must have dog hearing. No one has heard from Synder all year.
Read the other writers at WP

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 7, 2009 6:04 AM |

He hasn't heard anything from Snyder he's like JLC with the fake sources at Redskins Park.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 6:19 AM | Report abuse

hire a GM consultant!

Posted by: cedric_lockhart | October 7, 2009 6:43 AM | Report abuse

If anything this makes Vinny look bad, I think he is doing whatever he can to help Zorn because Zorn was his hire.

This is Vinny's first coaching hire the rest were Snyder's, so if he fails Vinny will take some blame.

Snyder will turn on Vinny at some point, now wether he hires a good GM or not time will tell.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 6:46 AM | Report abuse

2 rushing TDs in 13 games. Everyone knows they have to run left because of Heyer and Thomas. Now with Rhinehart they are going right again. Their yds per carry sucks if you take away the very 1st play. Campbell never has enough time. 4th and goal from the 1 what happens? Sacks? What about hurries and the fact that most teams don't have to blitz?
Posted by: periculum | October 6, 2009 9:05 PM |

Of course this has to be on the O-Line, how about everyone icluding my 8 year old knows where all the short yardage runs are going.

Portis trips over himself half the time, his average per run would be higher had he broke the 3-4 runs for TD's instead of being caught from behind on one and falling down on the others.

Hurries are BS JC gets flustered before anyone gets close to him, if his first option is covered he gets happy feet and starts to panick.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 6:59 AM | Report abuse

To early to tell? The dysfunctional front office model has been proven. Snyder is a terrible GM and picks awful players (with a few exceptions). Once the overpaid free agents are here, he chums up to some of the so the inmates can run the asylum.

What a joke! Snyder needs to stay out of the team's football operations for things to turn around. At this time, he can't even lure a proven grade A coach or GM because the know better than to be undermined.

Posted by: jjredskins | October 7, 2009 7:02 AM | Report abuse

If you really think about it.. The first half of last season was really won on PORTIS LEGS....Ground and pound...Once he got tired in the 2nd half that was it.. And he looks tired to start this season.. So really without that.. The skins could have been THIS BAD last season TOO...

Posted by: cocodc1 | October 7, 2009 7:31 AM | Report abuse

Can we hire an owner consultant? Maybe put T.L. on little contract to slip 3x5 cards to Snyder? Sadly - this would probably go the other way and makes the Caps bad... Maybe Kraft has a #2 son that won't be running the show in NE and Dan "Rick Moranis" Snyder can adopt him.

Posted by: ssh1549 | October 7, 2009 7:33 AM | Report abuse

"The Redskins (2-2) have yet to score 30 points in a game since Zorn was hired last year. The team's only first-half touchdown this year has come on a fake field goal. In the last three weeks, Washington has scored 9, 14 and 16 points, respectively, against the Rams, Lions and Buccaneers, three teams with one win among them."


This was taken from a fox sports article, if Zorn doesn't need help then I don't know who does.

Even the worst teams in the NFL have scored more than us, so it can't just be the players.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 7:39 AM | Report abuse

I don't see any immediate changes this week as Sherm Lewis just started, but I think if he is listened to, the offense will improve. Most of all, I hope Sherm just tells it like it is when he sees Zorn make a bone-headed maneuver, and I hope Zorn takes the criticism to heart. Zorn was coachable when he was a QB. Let's hope he is as coachable as a coach.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 7, 2009 7:42 AM | Report abuse

Please Skinsfan, The only former Coach the Redskins should consider is Dungy. He took the Bucs from nothing to the brink of a championship and then Chucky came in and got (accepted,Took) the credit. Once Dungy's guys got old or retired Chucky got Fired. Dungy then went to the colts and built that team from Chumps to Champs. So why he's not a the TOP of the list just doesn't make since. F. the WCO that sh!t is played out. And the WCO coaches are all Walsh I mean washed up. We need to find our own Tomlinson just like we found Gibbs.

Posted by: jcnjcnj |

And what, pray tell, makes you think Dungy would EVER consider coming to the Skins??? For one thing,he truly does not want to return to coaching - at least not for awhile. Secondly, he could go anywhere he wants - and why would he want to come into a situation like ours?

Posted by: Lisa_R | October 7, 2009 7:44 AM | Report abuse

You got all these former SB winner coaches that are there for the taking - Gruden, Shanana, Holmgren, Billchick, Cowher. The only problem is that none of them with the exception of Cowher are unemployed for a good reason and any SB sheen they had has long since faded away. And in the case of Cowher, the dude is Carolina bound. It will be nice for him - he can walk to work.

Posted by: CottonEyeJoe | October 7, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

This is the dumbest thing Snyder has ever done. It throws Zorn and his entire staff under the bus. There not the problem. Its Snyder throwing money at free agents, never building the team in the draft. The O-LINE is awful. Wake up Daniel you are a selfish owner looking for a quick fix not willing to take input or build the team through the draft. You now have become the worst owner in sports. You are selfish and what coach has worked for you. Maybe its the system you have created. Will this guy ever wake up?

Posted by: tjzukoski | October 7, 2009 8:01 AM | Report abuse

This is the dumbest thing Snyder has ever done. It throws Zorn and his entire staff under the bus. There not the problem. Its Snyder throwing money at free agents, never building the team in the draft. The O-LINE is awful. Wake up Daniel you are a selfish owner looking for a quick fix not willing to take input or build the team through the draft. You now have become the worst owner in sports. You are selfish and what coach has worked for you. Maybe its the system you have created. Will this guy ever wake up?

Posted by: tjzukoski | October 7, 2009 8:01 AM |

Your such a tool, come up with an original thought instead of comeing on here and reading what all the other whiners are saying.

Zorn and his staff are doing a terrible job, so they should have thrown themselves under the bus.

The team is not built great but, they should be able to score 20 points in a game. Thats coaching my friend not how the team is built. We don't have the most talent in the league but we have a lot more than teams scoring more points then us.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:06 AM | Report abuse

Now Lewis is in that mix; he reported to work Tuesday at Redskins Park. It would seem likely that he will quickly determine that the Redskins need to get much better on the offensive line, add a speed back to the running game, run routes as they're supposed to be run in the West Coast offense and improve the talent level overall on offense. Or perhaps he'll determine coaching is the Redskins' only problem.

By Jason Reid |

Jason, those are all things that can already be concluded. It is unclear to me whether Sherman is hear to verify what fans/posters here already know about this Team, or is he hear to actually make changes?

If he is here just to verify, then why? The answer is the job is not getting done. Make a change now and be done with it.

If he is here to make changes then Zorn's job and ironcally, Vinny's also is the area of responsibility where the most changes need to be made.

The play calling, game planning, offensive coordinating, the QB play, the running backs, are all areas under Zorn that need addressing.

The current personnel and why we keep retaining players that are not producing, the overall training of the Team, are Vinny's area that need addressing.

So again, Jason, Is Sherman here just to consult and report, or is he here to actually institute changes?

If he is here for the former, it laids the foundation to fire both Zorn and Cerrato. If he is here for the latter, he can save there jobs.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | October 7, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

I have to agree that coaching is playing a major role in our offensive ineptitude. Zorn's mistrust in the QB and his lack of creativity in personel use makes me sick. Examples of this include : Not using Marko, Not using one of our 5 RB's to spell Portis and change up the pace, Not using Devin Thomas in a KR/PR role. The list goes on and on. We should be able to sniff 20 points but we're not even close.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 7, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Snyderatto has to make a bungling 3-ring circus out of everything.

They can't even fire a coach properly.

Tommorrow we'll have a Pepper Rodgers sighting.

Posted by: p1funk | October 7, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

I think this is a good thing, and I'm not sure how before Lewis has even done ANYTHING you could think otherwise?? Good post above Flound from Foxsports, 20 games, and haven't clipped 30 yet, and somehow people don't want someone brought in to help. I'm just mad this didn't happen after the draft, so he could have had all of training camp to get something accomplished.

If it helps score points, where is the harm.

If it proves that JZ is incapable as a coach, doesn't this speed things along.

Someone posted above, sometimes its damned if you do, and damned if you don't, or what it was like being Red Sox fan prior to 2004.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Al Saunders working for Ravens? I'm liking that team more and more.

That says something for Cam Cameron, who's a fine OC in his own right. Makes sense, though, considering the visual similarities to the Don Coryell-Joe Gibbs tree of offense the Ravens play.

Posted by: pdfordiii | October 7, 2009 2:56 AM | Report abuse


Go and get on a Ravens site then *aggot.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 7, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure what to make of this either. On the one hand, the guy has been out of football for several years, and I wonder if it will take him some time to acclimate himself to the league again.

It's not shocking to read that Snyder was going to fire Zorn if we lost in week 16 last year. I think that's a big reason why we've played terrible this year. I know some here will disagree with this, but I think it's human nature to play tight / nervous and to not be able to focus fully as a coach when you have a meddlesome owner who is a loose cannon and might step in at any time and yank the rug out from underneath you...

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Go and get on a Ravens site then *aggot.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 7, 2009 8:18 AM |

And take some of these other jagoffs with you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

I was on here last night and you want to talk about some whiny little b_tches I swear, and of course there king Peri. was leading the charge.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe the number of people defending Snyder and his kool aid on here. Yes I root for the uniform, but you have to take a step back and be realistic - look at what the rest of the NFL is doing, and what's not being done right here...from the top down.

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | October 7, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

From ESPN power rankings:

"It was amazing to see the disparity when it came to the Redskins. Chadiha, a longtime Beast favorite, fell in love with Jim Zorn all over again in ranking the Skins 20th. Sando looked over an Excel 2007 file and had the Skins at No. 27."

I guess it is hard to erase old flames from you memory.

Posted by: CottonEyeJoe | October 7, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

The bottom line is Zorn is simply over his head. It all falls on Snyder and Vinnie. He comes in for an interview one day and they ask him to be head coach, ok what was Zorn supposed to do say no to a challenge.
It may be hard to get a well respected coach in here now since these idiots have made the franchise the laughing stock of the league.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 7, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

And for the record, I've been made at the front office for years.

PS:

Take a look at one of the options the moronic Jason Taylor trade cost the team in the long run:

http://www.vikings.com/team/roster/Phil-Loadholt/09998227-9f22-4608-a994-7cc767b234e0

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | October 7, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe the number of people defending Snyder and his kool aid on here. Yes I root for the uniform, but you have to take a step back and be realistic - look at what the rest of the NFL is doing, and what's not being done right here...from the top down.

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | October 7, 2009 8:24 AM |

Nobody is defending Snyder, we just know unlike you that crying all day on here about how bad a job Snyder is doing is a waste of everyones time. Snyder isn't going anywhere.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Take a look at one of the options the moronic Jason Taylor trade cost the team in the long run:

http://www.vikings.com/team/roster/Phil-Loadholt/09998227-9f22-4608-a994-7cc767b234e0

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | October 7, 2009 8:25 AM |

Please get in your time machine and go back and change this, let me know how that turns out.

Great another day of what could have been.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Snyder should hire an owners's consultant because that is where the problem lies....He is a joke. A big fat joke.

Posted by: Redskins001 | October 7, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21,

Just a question -- but how many coaches and coordinators have to come thru here before you admit that maybe the Skins talent level isn't very good? Now, before I get into that, I don't think Zorn has done a great job. No discussion there. But look back for a little bit. This team had problems scoring under Joe Gibbs. We had problems scoring points under Al Saunders. We have problems scoring under Jim Zorn.

It's never an all or nothing thing -- there is usually middle ground to be found. Again, Zorn and his staff could do a better job to be sure, but you know what? The players get paid millions of dollars to execute, and we've seen 4-5 years of mediocrity from this group. My humble opinion? Save for a few players, we're not that talented.

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Hey flounder, relax man....people have different takes, losing causes angst and this is a forum for getting it out..its not like you have posted the same thing about 35X since about 10PM last night.

We get it, you are smarter and more faithful than the rest of us.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

So again, Jason, Is Sherman here just to consult and report, or is he here to actually institute changes?

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | October 7, 2009 8:13 AM |

Neither of the above. He is here to provide a cover for itchy finger Snyder to fire the dude with out Snyder's rep for impulsive taking another hit.

Posted by: CottonEyeJoe | October 7, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

broke, time to move on...that trade happened, and unless your time machine is gassed up, then there's no changing it...look forward, not backwards...

I'm not saying this is gonna happen this weekend, but lets say that with his years of work in the WCOffense, Lewis is able to pinpoint a few things, some minor stuff that needs to happen, and suddenly this offense starts to play with a little more efficiency....where is the harm again in bringing this guy in??

I don't get the indignation....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Just a question -- but how many coaches and coordinators have to come thru here before you admit that maybe the Skins talent level isn't very good? Now, before I get into that, I don't think Zorn has done a great job. No discussion there. But look back for a little bit. This team had problems scoring under Joe Gibbs. We had problems scoring points under Al Saunders. We have problems scoring under Jim Zorn.

It's never an all or nothing thing -- there is usually middle ground to be found. Again, Zorn and his staff could do a better job to be sure, but you know what? The players get paid millions of dollars to execute, and we've seen 4-5 years of mediocrity from this group. My humble opinion? Save for a few players, we're not that talented.

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 8:29 AM |

I'm not saying they are good, but they are good enough to score 20 points a game, any team should be able to fall into a 20 point game on occasion. The scoring problem under Gibbs was because he was to conservative, the team was way more talented under Gibbs then it is now.

The problem under Zorn is on everything from the players to the scheme, and the play calling. You can't change the players now so they have to try something.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

"haven't posted the same thing"...


(Lisa great point about Dungy, I don't even think he is ever coaching again anywhere)

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Whats next, hiring Dr. Oz to consult with team doctors? Hey Snyder isn't there a "Football Ownership for Dummies" on Amazon that would help?

Posted by: tdskinz | October 7, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

As I've written in previous posts, the Skins have done the coaching consultant thing before...repeatedly. This is a tired strategy used by an unsuccessful franchise with a powerless head coach and an unaccountable owner. Has ownership brought in a personnel consultant when they botch a draft or FA pickup (see Adam Arch, BLloyd, MK12, DT11, Giggles Davis for recent history).

The fact that a large % of fans applaud this move only serves to reassure the owner that he can continue to "play house" with football operations. Make no mistake: Dan Snyder is the Redskins GM. There's no consultant to fix that problem.

PS- I have to give props to the Mayor. I've accused him of being a milquetoast, but this post was hardball. I'll overlook the use of unnamed sources for now, but we expect backup at some point. After all, you're a "journalist" right?

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | October 7, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Hey flounder, relax man....people have different takes, losing causes angst and this is a forum for getting it out..its not like you have posted the same thing about 35X since about 10PM last night.

We get it, you are smarter and more faithful than the rest of us.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 8:31 AM |

CL,

These idiots don't need you taken up for them if they want to defend themselves let them have at it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Hey Flounder and everyone telling me to go use a time machine - every trade they make/made like this one, a knee jerk reaction to some injury when "they thought" they'd make the Super Bowl, always seem okay that day - but collectively, are SHORT SIGHTED and hurt the ability of the team to acquire talent.

The Jason Taylor waste was just the latest example.

Also, can somebody around here please let me know the Redskins even so much as used a 3rd round pick on an offensive lineman?

You do realize that offensive lineman's jobs are continually to a) push into people for run blocking or b) get pushed into while pass blocking. Bodies don't last forever.

Answer to above question: 2003, Derrick Dockery. FYI:

LT: Chris Samuels: Drafted in 1st round 2000 10th NFL Season, 10th on the Redskins
LG: Derrick Dockery: Drafted in 3rd round 2003 7th NFL season, 5th on the Redskins
C: Casey Rabach: Drafted by Baltimore in 2001, 9th NFL season, 4th on Redskins
RG: Randy Thomas: Drafted by Jets in 1999, 11th NFL season, 7th on Redskins
RT: Stephon Heyer: Undrafted FA. 3rd NFL Season, 3rd on Redskins

Backups:

D'Anthony Batiste: Undrafted FA, 2004. Never really has played in NFL, floated aroudn since 2006.
Will Montgomery: Carolina 6th round draft pick, 2006.
Chad Rinehart - 3rd round pick by Redskins in 2008
Edwin Williams; Undrafted 2009 rookie C from Maryland - might only be on team b/c he's an actual center
Mike Williams: 2002 1st Round draft pick of Buffalo Bills - out of football for a few years.

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | October 7, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

Someone posted above, sometimes its damned if you do, and damned if you don't, or what it was like being Red Sox fan prior to 2004.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse


I don't know what it's like to be a frickin Sox fan, but until Snyderatto put together a consistently winng operation they deserve criticism.

Fans are tired of pouring cash into their coffers and giving these clowns the benefit of their doubts and their support, only to get served turd sandwiches fro breakfast, lunch and dinner for a decade.

My free goodwill has been spent. No more charity. These losers now have to prove to me that they are worthy of support.

Posted by: p1funk | October 7, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Snyder,

Food for thought. Bring in a General Manager consultant to help your dear friend Mr. Cerrato make personnel decisions. Now, if you are pleased with the free agent signings and draft picks Mr. Cerrato has made in the past ten years, may I humbly suggest that you visit your local psychiatrist and get treated for a serious case of delusional disorder. If you are not happy with Mr. Cerrato's contributions then sit him to the side, retain him with a monthly buddy stipend, enough so Mr. Cerrato can afford to attend in Tampa General Manager School taught by Marty Schottenheimer.

Posted by: getitritegov | October 7, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

broke, we get it, you wish we didn't make that trade...guess what, we all feel the same way...but at this point in time, its kind of a water under the bridge type of deal.....you're starting to sound like you should change your handle to broken record....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

what my boy kenbeatrix said

(outside of the unnamed sources stuff, that never bothers me. read 90% of all news stories and you see them. its why we have shield laws. unnamed sources brought down a president, they can be used in sports articles)

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Nice press release...I guess Sherm is a quick study...the team is "offensive"!

“I am grateful to join this offensive team and an organization with such a great tradition. I am looking forward to working with Jim Zorn, Sherman Smith, Joe Bugel and the rest of the coaching staff.”

Sherm Lewis

Posted by: carter6 | October 7, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Let me see how it feels to be one of the Snyder sucks posters, who contribute nothing else to the discussion.

Snyder sucks he should die, he needs a consultant to make him better. He needs to sell the team. He takes all are money by force and then the Skins stink. Look how great other teams do maybe we should get one of them to own the team.

repeat every 10 minutes or so all F-ing day long.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

BrokenClipboard,

I tend to agree with you. Many of the FO's past decisions still affect the team today, so I'm not sure why it's automatically invalid to bring them up. I also don't understand the thought process of some on the RI board of bringing in coach after coach after coach until we find one who will make us a contender. The "playing with the hand you're dealt" thing I understand to a point; but maybe the hand we've been dealt isn't very good.

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Hey clippy, we all understand that this franchise makes bad trades/picks/signings or whatever. Dragging the JT thing back into the light doesn't really fit with the consultant topic that everyone else is disgussing and is old news that has been rehashed up here ad nauseum.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 7, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

I don't get the indignation....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 8:32 AM | Report abuse

I do but I just pop a couple of tums and it goes away.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 7, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

I think J Reid is a great reporter but one thing where I vehemently disagree with him is he in my opinion gives a complete out for Zorn am gathering to give the pressure on Snyder/Cerrato?

I am not a Snyder fan but I don't share Reid's poor Jim Zorn take. Well how can poor Zorn win with this O line or with these receivers, etc?

Yeah the Redskins aren't the best team in the NFL -- they and probably 18 other teams (at least) have some holes. But it's not like he inherited the Detroit Lions, he inherited a playoff team.

OK I'll even play along that the playoff team exceeded expectations and it wasn't as good as it looked. Even their worst critics say this is an AVERAGE team talent wise not among the worst. Does this team look average this season?

Zorn's offense last year was ranked worse than Saunders' maligned offenses, and Gibbs' too except for his first season back. This offense at least statistically took a step back not forward with Zorn and continues to flag

If you read Reid's take on Zorn it almost reads that its a miracle that he took a team that went to the playoffs and went 8-8 next season. But again its a step BACK. The record was worse and the offense was worse.

Unless we think that talent wise, this team is worse off or on par with the Lions, the Rams, Tampa, etc -- isn't it then at least partly on coaching?

We got a pro-bowl running back, full back, TE, left tackle, one of the more explosive WR's in the league -- yeah overall the talent needs an upgrade but I think the offensive talent is far from being smack at the bottom of the league.

So yeah I don't see why Zorn gets a complete pass. You read some of this stuff it comes across like this team is the only one in the NFL with holes. Poor Zorn has an issue at RT.

Again, IMO this team has average talent on offense with below average coaching. And yeah Snyder is an issue but I think Reid and some of the WP reporters are clouded by their dislike of him and conversely smitten with Zorn because he seems like a genuinely nice guy.

Posted by: mikeskapla | October 7, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

If Lewis can find ways for Campbell to get the ball to #11 and #12, and use the open middle of the field for seam routes, we will be a new team.

Posted by: quinn3 | October 7, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

We put a moratorium on Jason Taylor posts a long time ago.

Posted by: p1funk | October 7, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

If they lose this week, look for Snyder to bring in Bob Slydell and Bob Porter.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 6, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Bobs: Mr Zorn, we see you've been missing a lot of offense lately.

Zorn: Well, I wouldn't say I've been missing it Bob.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | October 7, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Snyder sucks he should die, he needs a consultant to make him better. He needs to sell the team. He takes all are money by force and then the Skins stink. Look how great other teams do maybe we should get one of them to own the team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse


Wow, Flound.

That's the best post you've put up all year. It's all true - can't argue with one point.

Posted by: p1funk | October 7, 2009 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Snyder,

Food for thought. Bring in a General Manager consultant to help your dear friend Mr. Cerrato make personnel decisions.

Posted by: getitritegov | October 7, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse


I'm not even sure he needs to bring someone in to help Vinny. I think he just needs to have a Coke and a seat and shut the f*ck up and let Vinny do his job.

Posted by: Original_etrod | October 7, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

oe, haha, I get the agida, tums is a wonder drug....

"I'm not sure why it's automatically invalid to bring them up"

ml, ok, lets discuss in order:

1. Why they didn't draft Tom Brady back in the 2000 draft?
2. Where it went wrong with Michael Westbrook?
3. Rich Owens, discuss?
4. Jamie Morris, why did he flame out?

We'll eventually get up to present day....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

If Lewis can find ways for Campbell to get the ball to #11 and #12, and use the open middle of the field for seam routes, we will be a new team.

Posted by: quinn3 | October 7, 2009 8:44 AM |

If he can help us score 1 TD in the first half of a game he is worth the money.

The only guy who has scored a TD in the first half is currently injured so I don;t think we can go to that fake FG well again.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

If this cat can bring our version of the WCO into the year 2000, he may help.

But if the past is prologue than the Snyder consultant trick portends things get worse not better. Now hey there has to be an exception to the rule right?

The season starts NOW!

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Wow, Flound.

That's the best post you've put up all year. It's all true - can't argue with one point.

Posted by: p1funk | October 7, 2009 8:46 AM |

Just trying to give people what they want.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

And what, pray tell, makes you think Dungy would EVER consider coming to the Skins??? For one thing,he truly does not want to return to coaching - at least not for awhile. Secondly, he could go anywhere he wants - and why would he want to come into a situation like ours?

Posted by: Lisa_R | October 7, 2009 7:44 AM

Obviously, you have a close relationship with Dungy. And he confides in you with his most initmate thoughts. So excuse me. But all I was saying is that the BEST guy to correct the ship would be Dungy. The skins are not worse off than the Bucs when he arrived and the Colts was so BAD b4 Dungy they had the 1st overall pick

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 7, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

"...recently said that lingering concern over Zorn's inability to make Jason Campbell more effective... was weighing on management's mind."

If I'm Jim Zorn, I tell management, "Hey, Campbell's not my guy."

"He's like the leftover sofa that you sit in, but find uncomfortable, so you throw it out to buy a new one."

"Let me draft someone who fits what I do, then evaluate."

"Otherwise, stay medium!"

"Dammit!"

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

I guess my FJZ calls have been answered. Welcome to DC, Mr. Lewis!

I'll take Sherman Lewis squawkin' in Zorn's ear over Sherman Smith doin' it.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 7, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

(outside of the unnamed sources stuff, that never bothers me. read 90% of all news stories and you see them. its why we have shield laws. unnamed sources brought down a president, they can be used in sports articles)

Posted by: chrislarry

cL,

I gave him a pass on the unnamed sources. I'm skeptical that they actually exist. I never believed JLC had legitimate NFL sources, other than janitors and equipment guys. JReid avoided the whole unnamed source practice for a few months, but his blog got boring. The post for this thread is fresh meat, though. He's either got his legitimate "multiple sources" or he doesn't. I'll give him a pass for now because the story seems to be corroborated by repeated Redskins history. He'll never get a real Redskins staffer of any significance to go on record with this stuff anyway. As far as content goes, JReid's post was excellent.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | October 7, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

No one even wanted Sherm Lewis as head coach when he was somewhat hot back in the day. What makes you think he will cure this mess we have here.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 7, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Take a look at one of the options the moronic Jason Taylor trade cost the team in the long run:

http://www.vikings.com/team/roster/Phil-Loadholt/09998227-9f22-4608-a994-7cc767b234e0

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | October 7, 2009 8:25 AM |

For what it is worth, someone posted on this blog that the week before Lions DE Jason Hunter "crumbled" Heyer he "crumbled" Loadholt. Didn't see either game but (a) Jason Hunter? who he? and (b) I doubt Hunter "crumbled" Loadholt - the dude outweights him by at least 70 lbs. He may have run around him. I wondered why Loadholt didn't go higher in the draft. He is so big he isn't going to be bull-rushed. Mebbe it was doubts about his ability to handle edge-rushers.

Posted by: CottonEyeJoe | October 7, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Flounder's continuous complaining about unoriginal posts is hilarious. Can't wait to read his opinion on people who can't spell.

Posted by: mack1 | October 7, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

No one even wanted Sherm Lewis as head coach when he was somewhat hot back in the day. What makes you think he will cure this mess we have here.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 7, 2009 8:53 AM |

He may not cure it but he can't make it any worse.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Bean, many of the moves we've made in the past still affect us today. It's a fact you can't spin. I get that you want to look at this exact group of players and figure out how to make them better. Maybe, just maybe, they aren't very good. Maybe, just maybe, some of these guys don't really have much potential. So when I look at this team now, yes, I think of some of the dumb moves that got us to where we are today. I'm not going to buy any "this is all Jim Zorn's fault" goggles to wear, sorry...

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Flounder's continuous complaining about unoriginal posts is hilarious. Can't wait to read his opinion on people who can't spell.

Posted by: mack1 | October 7, 2009 8:55 AM |

Ha Ha Ha you kill me

D-Bag

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Flounder 21

Isn't time for your shift as a greeter at Wally's World!

Your problem punk is the Deadskin's don't have the the talent to score 20+ points in a game against another NFL team. Now if they face a Division III team maybe. CP is over the hill and done, the receivers are awful and the Ol line pathetic. Coollye needs to put in some more time on the practice field instead of searching for parts in gay porn! Having your bro as your personal fluffer is just wrong!

If the Deadskin's had a FO and a coach who was free to coach than Fat Albert would spend his days at practice trying to get his 3 mile time down under 20 minutes and then 18 minutes. I would force Fat Al to play rugby in the off season to develop some stamina.

Face it boy as long as your butt buddy Danny is still alive the Deadskins will always be mediocre during the regular season and outstanding during the off season. Medium instead of mediocre is a far off goal for your favoite team.

Sorry I heard your promotion from greeter to stock boy was turned down by management. Keep hope alive Flounder maybe one day soon you will ake $10 a hour!

Back in the day Sonny would put up more than 20 points but the Redskins would still lose. But at least they were interesting. Now they are jsut awful and a laughing stock like you FLounder boy!

Posted by: vaherder | October 7, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

I have been mad about the Redskins mortgaging the future for years - even when they were better. I got the nickname "BrokenClipboard" during the Ramsey draft, as the Redskins kept passing good players to trade back. That turned out well.

Things I wish would happen:

1) Dan Snyder/Cerrato: Say "We have to get better as an organization".

2) Even if the Redskins win over TB/ST L, etc, by 2-3, say "We won today but we have to get better".

3) The team needs a plan, a direction. And to find whomever will really be the QB - if it's JC, great. Make a plan, figure out what you want at each position, don't overpay for other people's stars, grab as many good players you can and make EVERY SINGLE JOB OPEN FOR COMPETITION. With the "star system", the second one guy goes down everyone gets deflated that "oh we are missing player X at poistion Z for a month, we're screwed" - good teams/organizations don't behave that way in the NFL. Take a peak out of the Redskins pitcher of Kool Aid and look around at what other succesful teams are doing.

Becuase it's the truth. Everyone needs to get better within the Redskins organization. I want the Redskins to win championships - none of this bs "We are here to win the NFC East" sales line crap.

Posted by: BrokenClipboard | October 7, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Kenbeatrix,

I don't share your skepticism of the sources, as all organizations have leaks, and then half of them are planned leaks by the org.

but hey you can't argue than an abuse of unnamed sources breeds doubt, and can be easily abused.

Interesting debate, certainly.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

ml, never said they didn't, I just dont see the point in discussing them now, when there are much more pressing issues going on with the team....I mean feel free to discuss them, I gave you a bunch of issues above, waiting for your response...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Whether it's all Zoron's fault or not isn't the issue. Whether he is a competent coarch or not, is. He isn't.

Maybe if he takes off TWO of the THREE (QB's coarch, OC & HC) hats he's wearing, he could be an effective HC. I guess we'll find out.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 7, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

vaher,

The school bus is outside don't miss it your Mom will be mad.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

If anyone cares to weigh in on this....with this uncapped year that we may have, do you think we see a 50% or greater roster overhaul next year?

Posted by: FedorEm | October 7, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

mistamayor

(second time)
"...lingering concern over Zorn's inability to make Jason Campbell more effective... was weighing on management's mind."


Sir, this 'source,' as you call him, should be told that Campbell's issues (inaccuracies, poor game-management, staring down receivers) pre-date Zorn.

So how could management suddenly be 'concerned'?

It sounds like the usual arrogance from management types who believe they picked the right guy, but his failures lie with the coaching.

Sometimes, it's not one thing, but all three: the quarterback, the coach, and the management.

Tell our source the fanbase has lingering concerns about all of them.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Obviously, you have a close relationship with Dungy. And he confides in you with his most initmate thoughts. So excuse me. But all I was saying is that the BEST guy to correct the ship would be Dungy. The skins are not worse off than the Bucs when he arrived and the Colts was so BAD b4 Dungy they had the 1st overall pick

Posted by: jcnjcnj

Of course, I do not have an up close and personal relationship with Dungy but I have seen and heard him interviewed numerous times and read his books. He seems perfectly content in retirement.

And I did not mean he would not come here because our team is BAD, I meant because of the owner/management situation.

Posted by: Lisa_R | October 7, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

ml, never said they didn't, I just dont see the point in discussing them now, when there are much more pressing issues going on with the team....I mean feel free to discuss them, I gave you a bunch of issues above, waiting for your response...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Bean, tell you what, let's start from scratch here. No need in having an unnecessary argument if we're both not on the same page. What did you expect from the Skins this season? Wild card, Super Bowl contender, 8-8, worse? Maybe we're dealing with a disagreement in expectations...

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

"management's mind" This management has a mind?

Posted by: RealConservative | October 7, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

cL,

Planned leaks? You're even more cynical than I am. I applaud any use of conspiracy theory on the blog, and I can't put it past the Redskins to do it. Snyder doesn't talk to the media, but he's got a lot of spokespeople making a whole lot of noise.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | October 7, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't rule out any possible coach hire... even Dungy, who does appear to be "really" retired.

Never underestimate Snyder's power of per$ua$ion. He convinced Schottenheimer, a very public critic, to come be his coach.

Bog has Cholly Casserly on the new Sherm hire: "kiss of death"
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/10/casserly_calls_lewis_hiring_th.html

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 7, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Dungy ain't coach the Skins. Next.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I can't help but imagine this melody being played in the background as Sherman Lewis' plane landed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8vINCq_IAI&feature=related

Posted by: oh_boy1 | October 7, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

So, what happens if, after a few games, Sherm Lewis starts saying Jason Campbell is an idiot and the team needs to make a change at QB? What if he says DT can't play and Marko Mitchell is a gifted wide receiver that needs to be given more playing time? What if he says CP is a prima donna who needs to ride the pine for awhile if he is so injured? What will Zorn do if his personnel decisions suddenly come into question?

What if Sherm Lewis says the right tackles on this team suck and they need to get somebody - anybody - that can man the right side and keep the QB from getting killed. What will Vinny do? Will he go sign someone or trade for someone?

I'm just asking if they will listen to the offensive consultant and make changes, or will they nod their heads, say, "that's nice", and continue with business as usual? It has been my experience in business that a consultant really is only brought in to tell you what you already know, and help make a difficult decision easier by having the out of blaming it on the consultant if the decision proves to be the wrong one.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 7, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

fedorEm

"....with this uncapped year that we may have, do you think we see a 50% or greater roster overhaul next year?"

I'll weigh in.

I'd clean house.

I'd get out of every bad re-done contract to older player asap by giving them just enough to leave.

I'd get younger, faster, bigger.

I wouldn't sign any free agents unless it was someone who could play left/right tackle and was under 29.

But again: I'd clean house.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Dungy ain't coach the Skins. Next.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 9:08 AM |

CL,

Agreed, I don't know him but I don't think he will coach again period.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

redskin,

I guess we will see, I hope he was brought in for that reason but who knows.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

I can see the future, this just in from the Monday after the bye week:

Adam Schefter is quoting multiple league sources that in the wake of the Redskins loss to the Eagles yesterday Jim Zorn and Sherman Smith have been terminated and the team has promoted Greg Blache to interim head coach. Blache will retain his primary responsibility as defensive coordinator and recently hired offensive consultant will take over duties as offensive coordinator and primary play caller.

This really doesn't come as a huge surprise as Zorn's offense has been struggling all season and he has failed to bring any significant improvement to Jason Campbell's performance. Vinny Cerrato says "we feel good about Greg taking over, he has been here a long time, the guys know him and we feel good that he will be able to right the ship." However, most league observers believe that Blache is merely keeping a seat warm for the next big name coach coming to DC and most observers believe that will be Mike Shanahan who was seen at a local Morton's dining with Daniel Snyder and Vinny Cerrato. Stay tuned.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 6, 2009 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 7, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

But again: I'd clean house.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 9:11 AM |

Not a bad idea Mista.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Filmchis

Good comment. I check out RI everyday just to get updates. I was hoping that after JLC left RI would be more of a fair read. Unfortunately, it didn't. Almost every post from JR has some form of negativity, which is why most of the "fans" commenting are negative. RI is a Skins "hater" site. All these idiots that hate Snyder, Cerrato, Zorn and Campbell need to get another team to bash.

Posted by: rmblocher | October 7, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

zj,

Whats your take on this?

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

The big question should be "what has Sherman Smith been doing for the past 2 years?" That guy has been collecting a paycheck and remaining blameless while also learning on the job! No more inexperienced personnel getting high salaries! Now that Zorn is not too distracted by just the offense, maybe he can start learning how to be a true Head Coach and concentrate on the "flow" of the game for offense, defense and special teams. Do your job, please!

Posted by: JohnWWW | October 7, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

FedorEm, what's the average annual roster turnover in the league? Somewhere north of 25%, I'd guess. And that includes "surprise" cuts of at least a few highly paid veterans who still have something left, even in a year when there are standard salary cap implications.

I agree with what I think you're saying, that the uncapped year will allow the teams with lots of cash to shed fat contracts because any given team could eat all the accelerated cap hits it wanted (for yet-to-be-paid pro-rated signing bonuses).

But I think it would be awfully risky to try and make over your entire roster in one offseason, even if you have the cash to do it. I think every team will shed a couple of cap-killing contracts, making it more than the usual amount of turnover, but I'd be surprised to see every team cut loose a ton of guys. You still have to field a team...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 7, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I'm all for cleaning house and getting younger, faster, stronger etc. I just don't think Dan wants to admit to a rebuilding project. He then couldn't expect to ask the fans for so much money every week. Thats what its all about. Knowing that for a year or 2 the team may be 4-12 5-11 while rebulding. He'd rather keep things at 8-8 and sell false hope to the fans with big names.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 7, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

zj,

Whats your take on this?

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

My take is its a sign that Snyderrato have lost complete faith in Zorn. (and rightfully so in my opinion) But you don't hire an offensive consultant when you have an offensive genius as your head coach. I think no matter what Zorn was gone at the end year, I think this move just makes it possible now that he'll be gone sooner. Before what would they have done if they canned Zorn about playcalling and such? Now they have somebody in place they can turn to, its the beginning of the end for Zorn, I think he's gone at the bye week unless we win 2 of the next 3.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 7, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Now I know this is not a fair comparison, and its a video game comparison. SO if you don't like when peeps use video games to asses how to build a team stop reading now.

But I just started a new season of EA-NCAA football, now my team won the championship and we have a good solid O-line where all but 1 starter will probably be returning in the following year.

But you know what I am doing, all the in-season recruiting prospects I am looking at are O-Line. You want to know why, because even a moron who is only a football guy because of his playing Madden or an EA Game knows that you win with a good O-Line. In a college video game you need to draft a new front 5 roughly every 3 seasons. In the NFL games you probably should draft a first or 2nd round linemen every other season.

Posted by: alex35332 | October 7, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Nate,
I think I remember Vinny claimed that the average roster turnover is 10-11 players a season, for bad teams I think its in that 25% region, the phins replaced like 20+ guys when the tuna took over

Posted by: alex35332 | October 7, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

I'd get younger, faster, bigger.

I wouldn't sign any free agents unless it was someone who could play left/right tackle and was under 29.

But again: I'd clean house.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 9:11 AM |
I agree but there is a problem here. You can't can half the team and not pick up free agents to fill the holes. We just don't have that many draft picks. I hear you on the under 29 though. The other (and main) problem is that if we don't have a CBA most players that would be free agents become restricted free agents thus allowing their teams to set the price. Having said that there are still a few high pricers that should go no matter what.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 7, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

My other take is that Sherm Lewis must really need money bad. I don't see how in the world anybody would want the job he just took. On one hand he is trying to "consult" or make changes to an offense that is woefully short of talent and is expected to be a difference maker when I don't care if Bill Walsh himself was consulting when the right side of your line is a grease fire, your QB is limited from the neck up, and your diva RB isn't half the back he thinks he is, and you really don't have any idea how good or bad 3/5ths of your receiving corps is what kind of impact can you really have? Secondly, if Zorn gets fired like I think he will, that means you'll be taking over this mess for a couple of months before you get fired for some big named coach. How can Lewis think anything positive is going to happen here for him or provide him with any type of a future? his child support payments must be building up.......

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 7, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I'm all for cleaning house and getting younger, faster, stronger etc. I just don't think Dan wants to admit to a rebuilding project. He then couldn't expect to ask the fans for so much money every week. Thats what its all about. Knowing that for a year or 2 the team may be 4-12 5-11 while rebulding. He'd rather keep things at 8-8 and sell false hope to the fans with big names.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 7, 2009 9:17 AM |

That may be beginning to fail. There looked like a lot of empty seats from where I was watching at a bar in Dayton, OH. Anyone at the game that can tell me how empty it really was?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 7, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

scamp,

True and the younger guys will be the ones that will be restricted.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Bean, tell you what, let's start from scratch here. No need in having an unnecessary argument if we're both not on the same page. What did you expect from the Skins this season? Wild card, Super Bowl contender, 8-8, worse? Maybe we're dealing with a disagreement in expectations...

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I see 6-10 and worse than that if Samuels gets hurt.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 7, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

FedorEm, alex, I'd like to see a breakdown of all the contracts which go beyond the 2010 season, because those are the candidates for the "bad contract amnesty" program which will go into effect in the upcoming offseason.

Take out the dudes whose current contracts only go through 2009 or 2010 (and that's a good chunk of the team right there, I'd guess). And obviously we can't yet account for guys signed or extended before the 2010 season.

It's the guys currently under contract beyond 2010, and specifically the ones with back-loaded guaranteed salaries, who we're really talking about here as candidates for a palate-cleansing future cap purge.

I guess we're all operating under the assumption that 2010 will bring a wave of fat one-year deals, or totally front-loaded deals with tiny signing bonuses... whatever squirrely math the uncapped year will accommodate...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 7, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

braylon edwards is a jet....traded for stuckey, some lb and an undisclosed draft pick.....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

crabtree finally signs...

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Jack, Sherm Lewis is in his late sixties... I don't think he's turning down any deal at this point. Probably not worrying about his "future" or whatever.

I'm guessing he feels he has something to contribute, and a chance to contribute in whatever new structure the brain trust will put in place the rest of the season, and Snyder made it worth his while. Don't overthink it...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 7, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

I guess we're all operating under the assumption that 2010 will bring a wave of fat one-year deals, or totally front-loaded deals with tiny signing bonuses... whatever squirrely math the uncapped year will accommodate...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | October 7, 2009 9:32 AM |

Nate,

Check this site out this will give you what your looking for.


http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I see 6-10 and worse than that if Samuels gets hurt.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 7, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, and that's where my opinions on this team begin. I thought we would go anywhere between 6-10 and 9-7 this season. No upgrades to the offensive line, CP getting older and possibly ready to hit the wall, JC17 being an above average QB, but not one to carry the team, no #2 WR and a #1 in Moss who is very good but who can be taken out of games, and a young coaching staff still feeling their way. Thought the defense would be elite -- but was wrong so far on that one. That's why I place less blame on Zorn and Campbell than most. Are either doing a good job? No and no. But IMO this is a flawed team already, and that is the fault of the FO...

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

This just in. Jim Zorn had his first debriefing with team consultants this morning. The Redskins have put together a re-enactment of how the meeting went:

http://optempo.com/2008/04/03/office-space-clip-tom-smykowski-interviews-with-the-bobs/

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | October 7, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I'm guessing he feels he has something to contribute, and a chance to contribute in whatever new structure the brain trust will put in place the rest of the season, and Snyder made it worth his while. Don't overthink it...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | Octob
er 7, 2009 9:36 AM |

Agreed he is probably just looking to get his name back in football and collect a big check. Maybe he can help who knows.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Why weren't we told about the assistant coaches from the Gibbs era hogging up the payroll? When does that end? Does it mean we won't have the dough to get Shanahan/Gruden/Cowher?

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | October 7, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Why weren't we told about the assistant coaches from the Gibbs era hogging up the payroll? When does that end? Does it mean we won't have the dough to get Shanahan/Gruden/Cowher?

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | October 7, 2009 9:42 AM

I think they ended this year. They all got 5 year deals (I think)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | October 7, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

And this just in from the war in Afganistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal has hired Ron Kovic, a wheelchair bound agitator for peace, to help him as "an extra set of eyes" for the next 4th of July celebration.

Of course, the part of Ron Kovic will continue to be played by Snyder spiritual guide Tom Cruz.

Posted by: ElYeah | October 7, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Just read the Post...

JReid lays toooo much blame on the OLine and ZERO on Campbell.


WTF?

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 7, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

That's why I place less blame on Zorn and Campbell than most. Are either doing a good job? No and no. But IMO this is a flawed team already, and that is the fault of the FO...

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Completely agree that this is and has been a flawed team. I guess for me with Campbell and Zorn its the chicken or the egg kinda thing. Is it their fault the roster is flawed? No. Is it there job to win anyway? Yes. A good coach and a good QB can cover up a lot of deficiencies and I don't think we have either one, so yeah I guess its not their fault the team has holes but every team in the NFL has holes, this team has holes in just the perfectly wrong places.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 7, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Don't overthink it...

Posted by: NateinthePDX
exactly, what harm can it do. give it a shot

Posted by: connskins | October 7, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

JReid lays toooo much blame on the OLine and ZERO on Campbell.


WTF?

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 7, 2009 9:46 AM |

Be careful people on here love to blame everyhting on the O-Line.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

When will Snyder just end all of the bullcrap hires and just promote himself as the coach and offensive coordinator and the play caller...then when the team still doesn't win he can fire himself.

Posted by: kickass10101 | October 6, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse
----

That is the best idea I've heard in two months. Truth of the matter is that's all Lil Dan has ever really wanted. Hell, if he could, he'd do all of the above AND take the snaps from under center.

Tip to Dan: With your numerous resources, surely you've heard of a particular simulation which will allow you to live out these fantasies without having real world consequences. They call it...the "Madden".

Posted by: walkdwalk | October 7, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

let me be the first to say


SHERMAN SHERMAN SHERMAN

Posted by: GreatOne1 | October 7, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

"...crabtree finally signs..."


I gotta say, I like what the niners are doing.

We can't decide if we need to rebuild.

They are in the middle of it.

When Alex Smith, their #1 drafted, big money quarterback, bombed, they sat him down.

Our quarterback?: he gets another chance to underwhelm.

When their offensive genius coach flubbed, they brought in a defensive minded guy named Singletary who set the right tone from day one.

At some point, the Redskins' front office has to man up and re-do this thing.

If they don't, the empty seats will single that they should.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Naw Snyder's more of Dungeons and Dragons guy

Posted by: ElYeah | October 7, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I think it can only help. If Zorn gets all huffy (in private) then he’s not cut out for this job. Lewis can only help. Maybe it will light a fire under players and coaches. I am starting to think that maybe Zorn is not just in over his head, but the other Sherman and Stump might not be that effective either. What good is an offensive coordinator who doesn’t get to call the plays? New set of eyes that have been very successful with the (almost) same offense can only help….don’t understand why people think that this is a horrible move and want to put it in the bag with all of the other Snyder “bad moves”…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | October 7, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

If they don't, the empty seats will single that they should.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 9:49 AM |

It may take just that to get it done.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Completely agree that this is and has been a flawed team. I guess for me with Campbell and Zorn its the chicken or the egg kinda thing. Is it their fault the roster is flawed? No. Is it there job to win anyway? Yes. A good coach and a good QB can cover up a lot of deficiencies and I don't think we have either one, so yeah I guess its not their fault the team has holes but every team in the NFL has holes, this team has holes in just the perfectly wrong places.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 7, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

I hear you ZJ...and yeah I do not by any means think JC and Zorny are the best in the business at their respective positions. I personally think it's a burned bridge already. JC knows the FO has no confidence in him and is playing tight and nervous, and Zorn knows the FO is down on him as well, and instead of feeling free to tinker and give different guys a look and experiment, knows he has to win now -- hence the stubborn confidence he has in a small group of players -- Rock, Moss, Cooley, CP, and his unwillingness to play the young guys.

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Naw Snyder's more of Dungeons and Dragons guy

Posted by: ElYeah | October 7, 2009 9:49 AM

Have to disagree more like an extreme raquetball type of guy.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | October 7, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

....One of the knocks against him (Sherman) at the time was that Lewis wasn't the primary play-caller for those potent offenses...
We need a play caller...don't need a fresh set of eyes to see that!! of course that's not their only problem...just one of the many, son of a

Posted by: RedBaron2008 | October 7, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Snyder,

Food for thought. Bring in a General Manager consultant to help your dear friend Mr. Cerrato make personnel decisions.

Posted by: getitritegov | October 7, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse


I'm not even sure he needs to bring someone in to help Vinny. I think he just needs to have a Coke and a seat and shut the f*ck up and let Vinny do his job.


Posted by: Original_etrod | October 7, 2009 8:47 AM

Vinnie has been the horse dragging the Snyder wagon. That's the god damn problem.

Posted by: getitritegov | October 7, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

I think I may be in the minority here in regard to the Sherman Lewis hire, but I think it may pay off well for the Redskins.

Of course like Reid said, it may be overall talent, or coaching.

Sherman Lewis was definitely hired to determine this. The question is: What does Zorn think about it though?

Zorn has to feel like a dead man walking at Redskins Park these days.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 7, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Vinnie has been the horse dragging the Snyder wagon. That's the god damn problem.

Posted by: getitritegov | October 7, 2009 9:55 AM |

A lot of experts think it has been Snyder dragging the Snyder wagon, and Vinny taking all the blame.

We will never know the truth and since we can't get rid of Snyder, Vinny may have to go just to appease the fans.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

No upgrades to the offensive line

ml, what is dockery?

And my expectations where in the 9-7/10-6 range. 2nd year for campbell, I expected hiim to step up - hasn't happened. 2nd year for Zorn, expected the offense to be better/viable - Hasn't happened. I expected the defense to be better, with AH, and BO added - hasn't happened.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Zorn has to feel like a dead man walking at Redskins Park these days.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 7, 2009 9:55 AM |

Red,

There saying he was all for it, I doubt that but he needs to step up and be a man.

If your going out anyway go out with a bang.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

mattylight

"JC knows the FO has no confidence in him and is playing tight and nervous..."


Tight and nervous...?

No.

It's been five years.

There's enough tape and scouting on Campbell to say what his ceiling and bottom is.

And as for me, neither satisfies.

I want a guy who can take victory away from another team or make throws all over the field.

Me?: I re-sgn Rogers and let Campbell leave.

And I won't miss him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

"We will never know the truth and since we can't get rid of Snyder, Vinny may have to go just to appease the fans."

or to improve in a systemic way.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Oh what a feeling, playing QB on the ceiling.

Posted by: DikShuttle | October 7, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

No upgrades to the offensive line

ml, what is dockery?

And my expectations where in the 9-7/10-6 range. 2nd year for campbell, I expected hiim to step up - hasn't happened. 2nd year for Zorn, expected the offense to be better/viable - Hasn't happened. I expected the defense to be better, with AH, and BO added - hasn't happened.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

OK Beaner, if it makes you feel better -- yes we signed Dockery! Our O-Line problems are over...anyways, maybe we disagree in that you saw this team as a potential playoff team, and I don't. Which is fine, but if need be we can agree to disagree on that one...

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, this move has desperation written all over it. Though I do believe Gibbs brought in a consultant his first year back since the offense was very bad as well then.

Of course Zorn will be the fall guy for this mess while Vinny sits at Synder's side nice and smug. These are Vinny's bust picks, lack of attention to the offensive line that have done this!

Posted by: isonic1 | October 7, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

No one even wanted Sherm Lewis as head coach when he was somewhat hot back in the day. What makes you think he will cure this mess we have here.

Posted by: joeboggs | October 7, 2009 8:53 AM

HE never called the plays....That's why.

He just created the game plans during the week and sits in the box game time to be the play callers' set of eyes from up top.

Everybody loves him from what I have seen reported...

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 7, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I hear you ZJ...and yeah I do not by any means think JC and Zorny are the best in the business at their respective positions. I personally think it's a burned bridge already. JC knows the FO has no confidence in him and is playing tight and nervous, and Zorn knows the FO is down on him as well, and instead of feeling free to tinker and give different guys a look and experiment, knows he has to win now -- hence the stubborn confidence he has in a small group of players -- Rock, Moss, Cooley, CP, and his unwillingness to play the young guys.

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

well put. That also disappoints me about Zorn, don't most people in lame duck scenarios say "F it" and get all aggressive? Not corny Zorny, he gets ultra conservative for 99% of the game and then makes crazy go for it or take the penalty decisions that cripple him further 2 or 3 times a game. He got dealt a tough hand, I'm not arguing that, between the aging offense, the team culture (face it after a decade of ego and underachievement there are a lot of coddled/spoiled guys in that locker room), and then the expectations put on him by an idiot owner and a desperate fan-base he got 7-2 offsuit pre-flop. BUT he has done nothing to help himself what-so-ever. You can't tell me that out of Davis, Thomas, and Kelly a decent coach couldn't find one contributor? You can't explain to me why he has 5 running backs on the roster and pounds a hurt ineffective CP 25 times. You can't explain to me why he insists on taking multiple deep shots a game to our big slow possession guy when he has the faster Thomas on the bench who he was quoted as saying last year only knows how to run go routes.......in a foxhole you either come out fighting or you curl up and wait to die, Zorn came out fighting but his gun (brain) jammed, now he signs off on an "offensive consultant"? now he's curled up and is waiting to die.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 7, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

"We will never know the truth and since we can't get rid of Snyder, Vinny may have to go just to appease the fans."

or to improve in a systemic way.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 10:01 AM |

True if it is actually Vinny making all the calls.

If Snyder is making the calls than getting rid of Vinny does nothing.

He will just hire another guy who will take all the blame and except big fat checks.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Dockery was a lateral move at Guard in terms of talent, but he was a step in the right direction in terms of age, kind of, he will be over the hill in 2-3 years. People forget that in terms of pass blocking the old man was our best lineman in the last season. We did not get better we stayed medium.

Posted by: alex35332 | October 7, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"No upgrades to the offensive line

ml, what is dockery?"

in terms of the 2009 season, dockery for kendall was a lateral move. Kendall played well last season, dock basically holds the norm....

now going forward it improves due to the age difference, but i dont think it improved the 2009 line play.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Bottom line is that Zorn can still save his job if this team wins. Snyder will have a hard time firing him if the Redskins make a playoff appearance. Even if he feels that the improvement is Lewis's doing, I don't think he'd be able to do anything more than force Lewis into the O-Coordinator job.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | October 7, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

buy me a coke alex

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

ml, you said there were no upgrades to the line, which is not accurate. I pointed that we signed dock, I never said the problems were solved, I was merely point out where you were wrong about that.

How was I wrong to think that the defense would be better, the offense would be better, and the coaching would be better??

Where did I run off course on that one?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

zj,

yup, you can't argue that Zorn has gone way too conservative and safe perhaps in an effort to save his job. It does disappoint that we can't definitively see if these draft picks busts, b/c they're hardly ever on the field...

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Vinny is a proxy to allow Snyder to run things. That's why he keeps his job despite a decade of hopelessness. Vinny may be an adequate personnel guy, but he's just a pass through for Snyder here. They both need to go.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | October 7, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

alex

"Dockery was a lateral move at Guard in terms of talent"


True.

But as for right now, where does he rank on our line?

He's the second best afer Samuels.

I think if Rhinehart works out, our guard issues are okay.

Weakness seems to lie at center: the bucs seemed to get a nice push all day Sunday against Rabach.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Rabach can't pass protect without holding.

Has been that way as long as he's been here. He's not a center for a west coast attack. He needs an offense that runs a lot and keeps the pass rush off balance.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | October 7, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

chrislarry,
I'd argue that Dockery is less of a pass blocker than Kendall but is more of run blocker. The net difference is still probably zero, but yes, I like the "getting younger" part. I think Rhinehart is panning out at guard. He's yet to play his best game, but the kid is holding his own and is a bright spot. Right tackle is a disappointment. I wouldn't say the Redskins have gotten worse at the position; however, every team in the NFL now knows you blitz on that side and run defend on the other side. Heyer is getting abused weekly because of this. I wonder how bad Mike Williams is if he cannot work his way into the starting lineup and it makes me wonder that there might be some veteran out of work right now that is at least better than Williams and probably better than Heyer. Be this as it may, they entered the season with this offensive line and the coach needs to come up with ways to make it less a liability. I agree with a lot of people in that the season could go very bad very quickly if Samuels were to go down with an injury.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 7, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

braylon edwards is a jet....traded for stuckey, some lb and an undisclosed draft pick.....

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 9:33 AM

But the real question is....Did you Book it?

If you didn't, I don't know why you brought it up....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 7, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

beantown (non-football post)

Good luck against them Angels tonite.

I don't think they are as strong as they used to be.

Perhaps next week it's all Yanks v. Sawx.

'Cuz that's when baseball is the best!

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Is Sherman Lewis stupid? That's the only reason he'd determine that coaching was the Redskins' only problem.

It's time to clean house starting with Cerrato and working your way down to the players with Cerrato's replacement deciding which coaches and players stay and which go.

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | October 7, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Snyder is having long phone conversations with Holmgren nightly. This is a move so when we start playing real teams and getting crushed, he can fire Zorn, hand over the reigns to Blache and let Lewis run the offence. Then next year Santa Clause Holmgren will be the new coach.

Posted by: FedorEm | October 7, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Moe,

When your trying to distinguish between a line where the best guy is a C+ and the worst a D I think it really does not matter where you rank them but here's what I call it.

Samuels (B on his best day usually a C+)
Dock (C)
Casby (C-)
Rhin (C-)
Heyer (D)

Posted by: alex35332 | October 7, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Campbell:

The issue isn't his ability to make the throws. He has he arm and the capability.

The issue is his ability to see the field. In the NFL quarterbacks need to predict openings and throw into space. This is where Campbell lacks.

Is it because he is often rushed, hurried or sacked? Hard to say. And I think the argument can be made, but when he does have time, he rarely throws slants to slot receivers because the openings appear and disappear too quickly. When that is the read he also often stares them down and pats the ball before his release allowing the defenses to adjust to the route and defend the pass.

If Campbell could learn one thing from Brett Favre's performance against green bay?

It would be the masterful use of a stare down / pump fake. Defenses know the Favre will stare and pump fake. But they can't help themselves because all of their training says, follow the QBs eyes. Then, Favre turns his vision and throws with a quick release to a receiver on the opposite side of the field.

I cannot remember the last time I saw campbell use a pump fake. It's a great move, it buys time for your offensive line as D-Linemen rise to pass defend and lose leverage. It creates openings for wide receivers... and it makes d-backs hesitate when adjusting for where the QB is looking. One simple (teachable0 technique. It's not the entire difference, but it's a start.

Instead of treating every play like a horse race, where its all about who is faster / more athletic, skins need to show some savvy and Campbell needs to show some improvement in this regard.

Posted by: gconrads | October 7, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

ml, you said there were no upgrades to the line, which is not accurate. I pointed that we signed dock, I never said the problems were solved, I was merely point out where you were wrong about that.

How was I wrong to think that the defense would be better, the offense would be better, and the coaching would be better??

Where did I run off course on that one?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

I didn't think the offense would be much better because many agreed that the reason we collapsed last season was the performance of the offensive line. And -- in particular-- the performance of Jon Jansen at RT, the lack of depth, aging vets like Samuels and Thomas whose best days are behind them and who are injury prone, etc. We did nothing to address that -- unless you want to say Heyer is the answer. Dockery was cut from Buffalo due in part to the fact that he didn't live up to his contract (just based on things I've read -- but I won't pretend to be in the mind of their owner and GM), so I am not going to award the FO extra bonus points for that move. We got younger, sure, but IMO that was a lateral move.

I said in the preseason that Portis looked fat and out of shape, and at his age it wasn't out of the box to think he might hit a wall soon. I expected, like you, for the D to be better, but I think most on here including yourself were a little nervous about the AH signing given the track record of "stars" who come over here and don't live up to their billing...

All in all, with those problems, I think 7-9 or 8-8 was about right. That's why I am not so overly critical of Zorn and Campbell. Again, they aren't doing a good job right now. But I think this is a mediocre team to begin with.

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

no smart azz 4th, i didnt book it. but i thought as nfl fans i'd pass the big newz along...

as a jokemeister u are like a fat power hitter in baseball....some huge dingers, but some spectacular whiffs as well.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

in terms of the 2009 season, dockery for kendall was a lateral move. Kendall played well last season, dock basically holds the norm....

now going forward it improves due to the age difference, but i dont think it improved the 2009 line play.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 10:04 AM

OMFG....I would never expect this from you cL. But, I am glad you agree the OLine plays well.....

But, Kendell never practiced on Wednesdays and wasn't pulling as often to save his knees/legs late in the season.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 7, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Funny, my analysis of Doc is the opposite of RSH's. I see him as a better pass blocker then run blocker, but then I just look at CP's TD total for the season and ask, who is he running behind on all them 4th and goals?

Posted by: alex35332 | October 7, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

So, you didn't like the joke? I thought your response was hilarious anyhow. I don't mind being compared to BArry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, and Bobby Banilia though...

Jets just F'd up there chances to make the playoffs.

Book it.

(And you know am def all-nfl up here)

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 7, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

rofl maybe snyder should replace zorn with himself if he knows so much.

Posted by: prescrunk | October 7, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Funny, my analysis of Doc is the opposite of RSH's. I see him as a better pass blocker then run blocker, but then I just look at CP's TD total for the season and ask, who is he running behind on all them 4th and goals?

Posted by: alex35332 | October 7, 2009 10:21 AM |

Maybe if they didn't run the same play everytime he might score on a few of them.

It's hard for the left side of the line to block 11 guys that know exactly were the run is going.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: mattylight | October 7, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

couldn't agree more, I thought with an absolutely elite D like it looked like we could have we had a shot at 9-7 but I was expecting 8-8 again. A broken down Portis was still all we had at RB. I said at the time and stand by the statement that Dockery was at best a push, Kendal was our best lineman last year and he's the guy we replaced? Come on that's not an upgrade. We replaced Jansen with Heyer...crap for crap, Samuels and Thomas both walking injuries at this point in their careers both got a year older and we still did nothing to upgrade behind them or Rabach. Our grand master plan was BMW? come on....I had hoped that the progression of JC and the triplets coupled with an elite defense coupled with the loss of TO the loss of the Eagles Dcoordinator, the loss of Plax would result in a couple division wins and a Wild Card birth. What we got is same old same old but not even as good on defense, a regression from JC, our line "is what we thought it was", CP broke down faster than expected, and thanks to crap coaching on offense who really knows about our youngens.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 7, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

And I did not mean he would not come here because our team is BAD, I meant because of the owner/management situation.

Posted by: Lisa_R | October 7, 2009 9:04 AM

Dungy gave up coaching a very good team led by Peyton Manning. He has moved on to other interests and coaching isn't one of them.

Posted by: will_ga | October 7, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

For the record, I like this move. This offense needs a fresh set of eyes, and Zorn + Campbell still have the opportunity to save their jobs here. This isn't an automatic doom and gloom scenario.

That is all.

Posted by: psps23 | October 7, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

moe, tomorrow night is when the sox/angels start, and not until 10:00 EST, thanks Bud Selig for being an idiot, and not starting the games till that late.

Great game last night..wow that was intense...Brandon Inge got himself some bad ink on his forearms...not sure what it even was??

cl, I appreciate the NFL news....please tell me that the NY media is now predicting a SB for the jets...

crab saw the writing on the wall, and figured some money was better than no money....idiot...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

psp, I agree with you......10/7/2009, 10:34 EST...duly noted...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

It's hard for the left side of the line to block 11 guys that know exactly were the run is going.

Posted by: Flounder21


That's true, but then I get the thinking about Shaun Alexander and his prime years in Seattle.

They ALWAYS ran left with Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson, everyone knew it, and they still couldn't stop it.

As soon as Hutchinson was removed form the equation, Shaun Alexander began to drastically fall off.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 7, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

4th

where did i say the line plays well? i said in 2009 dock for kendall is a push with ascending returns going forward.

since you asked my take on the line:

this group is a subpar nfl line including the depth. if i was listing pro/cons they would be a con. that said i think they have performed a bit better than advertised. i think in passpro they overachieve and that JC has to make lemonade out of the lemons there. Thats the NFL.

My dissapointment has been in the run blocking where I think they have been highly suspect. Rightly/wrongly the coaching staff doesn't seem to trust them to run a variety of running plays, which adds to a vanilla running attack.

Also I think we are in dire need of a legit blocking TE. Fred Davis was and never will be that, compacting the wrongness of the pick. Yoder is done. Cooley is not a blocker. I think at times he even overachieves there, but its not his strength. Do the colts ask Dallas Clark to block? We need a stud masher at TE to compliment this team's attack.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

I don't know about this, we've seen it before, and it didn't do much good...it just indicates a vote of no confidence in the current staff, and the players will note it.

That being said, if we just want a bunch of Shermans out there, I'm available.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | October 7, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

The comments here that this is a lame Snyder move are idiotic.

A stadium full of boos. Months of anti-everything rants about the offense. Anyone defending JC17 being called to task.
Yada yada.

The FO does takes the high road - keep Zorn and get him help - and you decry the move? If I recall, Lord Gibbs hired Musgrave for the same reason and when Musgrave moved to Atlanta he hired Saunders.

Zorn needs to take the opportunity to be the HEAD COACH now instead of being a coordinator/position coach. It's still his job to lose. Can he step up? Time will see.

For the haters. Shut up.

Posted by: kmag1 | October 7, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Alex

"When your trying to distinguish between a line where the best guy is a C+ and the worst a D..."


I get your point and agree.

But I also see things a little differently.

You have to wonder if defensive coordinators are just simply saying, "Hey, press the redskin receivers at the line and play a safety in the box."

If that is the case, it means that no matter how the line plays, it's up to the quarterback to make the throws into tight coverage that changes what a defense does against the skins.

And right now, our quarterback can't beat a team with his arm or decision-making.

That's why we can't score.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Flounder,
Well sure the play calling is part of the problem, but still you would think CP would have 1 TD by now.

Posted by: alex35332 | October 7, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

They ALWAYS ran left with Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson, everyone knew it, and they still couldn't stop it.

As soon as Hutchinson was removed form the equation, Shaun Alexander began to drastically fall off.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 7, 2009 10:37 AM |

True but when you don't have that kind of line mixing things up a little helps out.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

I get your point and agree.

But I also see things a little differently.

You have to wonder if defensive coordinators are just simply saying, "Hey, press the redskin receivers at the line and play a safety in the box."

If that is the case, it means that no matter how the line plays, it's up to the quarterback to make the throws into tight coverage that changes what a defense does against the skins.

And right now, our quarterback can't beat a team with his arm or decision-making.

That's why we can't score.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 7, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse
-----------------------

That is certainly part of the problem. With this O performance though, I think all parts have some blame.

The O-line just isn't any good.
The QB won't throw to receivers until they make their breaks, making it harder for them to stay open.
The new WR's still run poor routes sometimes, leading to a lack of confidence from the QB.
The run blocking out and out stinks.

Put it all together, you get 14 points a game.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | October 7, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 7, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

in terms of the 2009 season, dockery for kendall was a lateral move. Kendall played well last season, dock basically holds the norm....

now going forward it improves due to the age difference, but i dont think it improved the 2009 line play.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 7, 2009 10:04 AM

You said Dockery eqauls Kendall and you said Kendall played well...So Dockery plays well. I'm sure you think Sameuls plays well too. And CR75 played well so far in his 2 starts.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 7, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Flounder,
Well sure the play calling is part of the problem, but still you would think CP would have 1 TD by now.

Posted by: alex35332 | October 7, 2009 10:39 AM |

Alex I think they are all the problem CP the Line and the play calling.

CP hasn't run hard all season until this past Sunday, he was not ready at the beginning of the year.

He does not work hard in training camp, nor does he work hard in practice.

Zorn or whoever the next coach is needs to bring tha hammer down on these guys and make them work.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

I was so pissed that I missed the first 7 innings... until I watched it from then on... WOW! Great game indeed.

Twinkies should have been the WC team already anyway.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Crap tattoos are the way to go these days it seems. I was always got one that had some meaning to it. It's crazy. My generation in our latter years, will be a bunch of old people with wrinkled tattoos.

The really sucks for the ladies who get ink on their ta-ta's. That paw will look like some spaghetti noodles when they're 60.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 7, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Football is like church! What do you believe? The offensive players do not believe and they are being pressured to perform with the lack of tools. This offense is basic at best and with a below avg talent pool you have to scheme your way into points. Zorn has tried to trick his way into point and that does not work. He needs help. His play calling is not calculated enough to beat an average defense. He called the same stop and go to Santana Moss at least 7 times on Sunday.

Posted by: jtrob_1 | October 7, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

I was on here last night and you want to talk about some whiny little b_tches I swear, and of course there king Peri. was leading the charge.

Posted by: Flounder21 | October 7, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Didn't swill enough of the KoolAide last night...???

Posted by: i155133 | October 7, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Isn't Danny Boy the problem. You could throw Cerrato in there too. But Snyder is a moron.

Posted by: oneft2dice | October 7, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

The comments here that this is a lame Snyder move are idiotic.

A stadium full of boos. Months of anti-everything rants about the offense. Anyone defending JC17 being called to task.
Yada yada.

The FO does takes the high road - keep Zorn and get him help - and you decry the move? If I recall, Lord Gibbs hired Musgrave for the same reason and when Musgrave moved to Atlanta he hired Saunders.

Zorn needs to take the opportunity to be the HEAD COACH now instead of being a coordinator/position coach. It's still his job to lose. Can he step up? Time will see.

For the haters. Shut up.

You are so right - it was a BRILLIANT move by Vinny to hire his cronie who has been out of football for 5 years to add expertise to the coaching staff. And Sherm was in such high demand that he has turned down numerous other HC and coordinator positions to come here.

What a pathetic situation.

The high road is for Snyder and Vinny to vacate their positions and turn the team over to a trust until such time as a credible managment structure and personnel can be hired.

Posted by: i155133 | October 7, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Filmchris hit it on the head. In the eyes of most of these bloggers, the Redskins are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I noticed that Snyder didn't hire any of you guys as a consultant, a real mystery to me as you are all experts.

Posted by: VegasJim | October 7, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse


*** Too Many Hens In The Henhouse?****

Posted by: laxpro95 | October 7, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Campbell:

The issue isn't his ability to make the throws. He has he arm and the capability.

The issue is his ability to see the field. In the NFL quarterbacks need to predict openings and throw into space. This is where Campbell lacks.

Is it because he is often rushed, hurried or sacked? Hard to say. And I think the argument can be made, but when he does have time, he rarely throws slants to slot receivers because the openings appear and disappear too quickly. When that is the read he also often stares them down and pats the ball before his release allowing the defenses to adjust to the route and defend the pass.

If Campbell could learn one thing from Brett Favre's performance against green bay?

It would be the masterful use of a stare down / pump fake. Defenses know the Favre will stare and pump fake. But they can't help themselves because all of their training says, follow the QBs eyes. Then, Favre turns his vision and throws with a quick release to a receiver on the opposite side of the field.

I cannot remember the last time I saw campbell use a pump fake. It's a great move, it buys time for your offensive line as D-Linemen rise to pass defend and lose leverage. It creates openings for wide receivers... and it makes d-backs hesitate when adjusting for where the QB is looking. One simple (teachable0 technique. It's not the entire difference, but it's a start.

Instead of treating every play like a horse race, where its all about who is faster / more athletic, skins need to show some savvy and Campbell needs to show some improvement in this regard.

Posted by: gconrads | October 7, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse
==========================================

Great analysis but he used the pump fake on his last interception against Tampa.

I've been wanting this team to run play action for a year and a half now, and they finally did in the third quarter and moved the ball quickly and scored twice. And then they never went back to it. Not once.

Zorn is a fool. And I welcome Sherm Lewis's input. This offense at this point has absolutely nothing to lose.

Posted by: kingtutts | October 7, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Seems some folks are trying to pass off the hiring of Al Saunders by the Ravens as an "offensive consultant" has having really improved their offense. Maybe. Could be though that they actually have a good QB. And a good O'line. And a relatively healthy Todd Heap. Oh, and a running game. Nooooo, couldn't possibly be any of those things.
Posted by: elkiii_2008
____
Well yeah they do have a good QB and the Skins doen't.. but still the offense is better than last year. Much like the Saints defense with Gregg Williams is much better than last year.. Hmmm.. didn't those guys used to be coaches on the Skins when the Skins made the playoffs under a good QB.. Todd Collins??? Makes you wonder what IF the Skins kept Williams and Saunders and Collins as starting QB. Why do I think they wouldn't have lost to the Lions..

Posted by: sovine08 | October 7, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

can we lose a couple in a row please so we can start the changes!

No more vinny, no more jz.

Posted by: 1of9000 | October 7, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

We can't score b/c our line is old and creaky. JC is too risk averse and waits till receivers are WIDE open before releasing the ball. This trait is not conducive to scoring in the NFL where you're not going to make explosive plays that way. QB's have to establish trust and chemistry with receivers and throw to a spot. Makes me wonder what kind of tutor Zorn is...

Posted by: Donald8 | October 7, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Why can't we get a washed up Tom Brady in say 2014 for 200 million?

Posted by: DesiHungama | October 7, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Who cares the reason to bring him here...there is no spin on this Offensive FRAUD.......Take your pick of the reasons:

1. Ownership / Cerrato/ Dinosaur Joe Gibbs have doomed this DYSFUNCTIONAL franchise with almost everything personnel wise.... they touched

2. Zorn is over his head and calling the plays is a Nightmare....He calls plays NOT to cluster****.....

3. Campbell the Robot strictly goes by the ZORN script (he has No instincts/ no improvising)and the script says, when in doubt, on a third down and 10......better to throw a 5 yard completion (pad the stats) and punt..... rather than a 10+++++ yard toss in traffic......

4. Oline has been ignored for upgrade.... so there is no running game (RB's are SLOW) to threaten any opponent including the endless number of NFL DREGS they play during the pre Bye weeks......

Posted by: FletcherChristian1 | October 7, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

This great defense which is among top 10 for the past few years that everyone has been talking about is nothing but a replica of what Gregg Williams assembled.

Gregg Blatche is to this defense what Barry Switzer was to the Cowboys.

Does anyone agree with me that after Gibbs left, Gregg Williams should have been the Washington Redskins head coach?

Posted by: DesiHungama | October 7, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

"Seems some folks are trying to pass off the hiring of Al Saunders by the Ravens as an "offensive consultant" has having really improved their offense. Maybe. Could be though that they actually have a good QB. And a good O'line. And a relatively healthy Todd Heap. Oh, and a running game. Nooooo, couldn't possibly be any of those things.

Posted by: elkiii_2008 | October 6, 2009 11:55 PM"

Why does point "A" always seem to need to preclude "B" with so many people on this blog?

I'm not saying Al Saunders is the ONLY reason, or even the main reason for the Ravens' offensive improvements, but he sure as hell helped shorten the learning curve and smoothed the transition.

Could it be that Al Saunders helped SLECECT some of those good players? QB, younger WRs, O-line...

Could it be that Al Saunders may have helped the Ravens figure out which players are best suited to the offense the team was building?

Or PERHAPS could it be that Saunders may have helped the Ravens build a system suited to the players the Ravens already had and those they newly acquired?

Naaah, that couldn't be it...could it?

Al Saunders arrival just HAPPENS to coincide with the time the building and improvement occured...total random coincidence. So that can't POSSIBLY be it.

elkiii, with mad deductive skills like that I'd guess you were a high ranking member of the LAPD in the mid '90s.

Posted by: ThinkingMan | October 7, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Danny wonders why we can't score?!? Your GM acquired Dockery in the offseason to replace Pete Kendall. Otherwise, we bascially stood pat on an area of weakness that completely derailed last season after a 6-2 start.

LOL @ us poor Redskins fans. We can't fire the owner. We are doomed.

Posted by: ezetimibe | October 7, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Funny how every single coach (other than Spurrier) and coordinator that has left the Redskins is having at least equal success right now elsewhere at the pro level.

Norv Turner [San Diego 2-2]
Greg Williams [New Orleans 4-0]
Marvin Lewis [Bengals 3-1]
Mike Nolan [Denver 4-0]
Terry Robiskie [Atlanta 2-1]
Brian Schottenheimer [Jets 3-1]

Not to mention the way that Marty Schottenhiemer turned the Chargers around.

Shouldn't that be a sign to Snyder that his problem is with the one thing that hasn't changed?

"Spurrier's offensive line troubles resulted in starting quarterback Patrick Ramsey being one of the most sacked and hurried quarterbacks in the league."

5 years later all you have to do is replace Spurrier with Zorn and Ramsey with JC and its the same story.

Posted by: ProfessorWrightBSU | October 7, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Oooooh, I want to play time machine too. How about when Joe Gibbs decided to trade Champ Bailey and our draft picks for Clinton Portis. Clinton Portis has no discernable skill that makes him special as a running back but we paid him more than any running back ever. He's not a bad running back but he is never or never will be all the money we paid him when running backs unlike QBs aren't hard to find. Meanwhile, Champ is considered old but the Broncos put him on an island at the END of the game and he shut down the Cowboys WRs.

Later, since we were convinced Clinton is the man because he just did what any other fairly good running back would have done over three years, we picked up Laron Landry (can we please move him back to strong because his free safety skills have been overall No. 5 pick unimpressive) with our first pick in the 2007 draft. I screamed very loudly at the TV because I had told everyone that the next pick would be an eventual Hall of Famer. Mr. Adrian "All Day" Peterson.

All I'm saying is we have been making dumb decisions through the last three head coaches. Norv Turner should have never been fired and certainly Marty shouldnt have. I'm going to put my time machine away because its useless. We need a house cleaning starting with the coach and QB. It's no longer about who's at fault, it's just time to start wiping every spot, clean or dirty.

Posted by: jrbell84 | October 7, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and one more thing. Tell me about the west coast offenses around the league and then tell me about the great WRs in them?!?! Hard to think of, huh? West Coast offenses don't need a bunch of talented fast WRs they need guys who can't just get to a spot with good hands (probably veterans) and they definitely need an accurate, cerebral QB who is more worried about throwing into a tight space on timing than someone like Campbell. Campbell and his young WRs would be alot better with a different offensive scheme. Somebody needs to go find the players that match our schemes or find the schemes that match our players.

Posted by: jrbell84 | October 7, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Look at the age of the Skins and the total lack of depth. You think it's bad this year, wait another year or two. There is no young talent waiting to take over. Don't be surpised to see a 3-13 year in the near future.

Posted by: teamohall | October 7, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is inexperienced as a OC and coach but didn't we all know that when he was hired? Now snyder wants to act as if he is supprised and expected more from Zorn. At this point I dont think Snyder has a clue as to what to do and his ego will not allow him to allow others to make decisions. Thats why we wont get any of the coaches that he thinks he will get after he fires Zorn. He never planned on having him there in the first place until his other coaching choices did not work out. Zorn is a substitute teacher and thats not fair to him but I am sure he is thankful for the opportunity to be promoted to a higher coaching level. I hope Zorn wins 9 to 10 games so even if he is fired he can show other teams that he can be a good coach in the future. Also it will be funny to see snyder try to fire a guy who has won 9-10 games with a bad line and no experience prior just because he has another fantasy hire in mind. It will expose him for the fantasy fan he is. I always say that snyder is just as fickle as skins fans. Like skins fans he is stuck on the supperbowl years and cant be patient enough to start a team from scratch and build it to a championship team. Every year it supperbowl or bust for Snyder and skins fans. When they go 9-7 or 8-8 or 7-9 snyder as well as skins fans want to blow up the team but they never want to start over. They just want to throw a couple of big names in through FA and hope that will bolt them into elite status, and when it doesn't they do the same thing again. How many times can we blow up the skins, not start from scratch and expect better results? In all the years wasted trying to short cut to elite status we could have built two championship teams from scratch by now. Teams like the Giants and Ravens have built championship teams, faded, started over and built another elite team in the same period that snyder has been fantasy picking and short cutting.

Posted by: ged0386 | October 7, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

BMACattack

Kind of reminds you of the old ravens coach doesnt it? You know, the offensive genius who never could produce a good offense. Could not stand that the ravens won with an unimpressive QB (Dilfer) and a running game along with a great defense (Marvin Lewis). Yes, snyder reminds me of your boy Billick.

Posted by: ged0386 | October 7, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Lapdog Handpuppet Cerrato and Dannyboy should of know how championship teams are built or at least sought out the advice from a kid in second grade.

Controlling the line of scrimmage is paramount to controlling the clock, running the ball off tackle, and between the gaps, and if marginally successful then it creates better than average play action passing for the deep threat and scoring and moving the ball instead of the regular 3 and outs.

It surprised more than just a few loyal fans that these two wizards of football did not go out and draft legitimate offensive linemen or go about getting via trade or free agency linemen that would add to the effectiveness of controlling the line of scrimmage.

Lapdog Sock Puppet Cerrato is Dannyboy's yes man, and with him here things will only continue to get worse and next year I expect to see at least 4-5 games that get blacked out as the season ticket holders will start turning in their tickets due to lack of productivity on the playing field and in the front office.

Coach Zorn is the fall guy and I pity the next coach that is lured here by Dannyboy to only be castrated by Dannyboy.

Posted by: Sideswiped | October 7, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

This move is a vote of no confidence and Zorn and his staff are done here.

Posted by: kahlua87 | October 7, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I think we can all agree that if Dan Snyder was an athlete he would definitely be on steroids? The same could be said about most skins fans. You like snyder lack the patience to build a good team so you wish for a quick fix every year only to be mad that the quick fixes done pan out. Maybe Snyders business ventures became successful in a short period so thats gives him the impression that he can impose that same instant success will in owning and NFL team. He is like Jerry Jones, he cant stop meddling with the stew until he messes it up more. For instance, even if you did not like Marty and Brad Johnson you should have stuck with them until you got the maximum out of them instead of bailing at the first sign of failure. Marty was solid enough a coach to build the skins into a playoff team in 2 to 3 seasons and Johnson has a supperbowl ring since leaving. Even if you eventually got rid of both snyder still did not see it through. Thats the lack of experience as an owner, he cannot tell who to stick with and who to get rid of enough to be making so many decisions.

Posted by: ged0386 | October 7, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

All Snyder knows is that he wants the Redskins to be good. That, Danny Boy, is not good enough. He and Cerrato need to decide what kind of a team they want this franchise to be, identify the person they believe has the best chance of establishing that identity, and then give that person time to bring about some change.

Clear your head, Dan. Block out the media. Make a decision and then STICK WITH IT.

Posted by: mmeixler | October 7, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Isn't Danny Boy the problem. You could throw Cerrato in there too. But Snyder is a moron.

Posted by: oneft2dice | October 7, 2009

Lets keep it real, Snyder is not a moron, he just does not have experience running a professional franchise and it shows. Too call him a moron is basically admitting that you are more of a moron because he actually is successful enough to own a NFL team and you dont, not to mention he probably gets your money in the process. Not to mention that you are taking the time to read and comment about him, not the other way around. Now does that make you a moron? Based on your own thought process yes, even if you are not. But I understand your point.

Posted by: ged0386 | October 7, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Yo Dan and Vinny, I'm real happy for y'all and I'ma let you finish but...Sherman Helmsley is the BEST SHERMAN OF ALL TIME!

Posted by: walkdwalk | October 7, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Bad Karma! Bad timing! This season is history!

If the offense was playing tight before, this motivational move will lead to more offensive fumbles, more dropped balls by our receivers, more sacks of Campbell, and more interceptions. Few people actually perform better when the executioner is standing over them, waiting to cut them at the slightest sign of weakness. The signal here is that Snyder lacks total confidence in his people -- shocker! Zorn and Campbell are toast! If Campbell rises above this and manages to raise his game and takes this team to the playoffs despite these toxic working conditions (he is being set up to take the blame for the eventual firing of his head coach and mentor), I hope he takes his services elsewhere and succeeds on a massive scale. Revenge is sweet!

I don't expect Zorn to come down especially heavy on his trio of mediocre Cerrato draft picks -- they never get open, don't adjust their routes, and drop sure touchdown passes. These young guys who don't seem to understand their roles are killing Zorn. No wonder Blache hates rookies!

Snyder displays zero understanding of a learning curve, which is why his teams have consistently failed to develop anyone. Snyder's signature move has been to bring in the washed-up, over-priced free agent celebrity. Championship teams are constructed from the ground up, they can't be bought. This team has no foundation is headed for the toilet!

Posted by: dannykurland1 | October 7, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, late to the party, but WHAT?
LisaR writes:

He gets blamed for the stadium: Totally not his choice or his fault
The stadium modifications were his choice to pack more people in. No solution to terrible parking.

Coaching turnovers: In the past yes, but truthfully that has not been the case in the last 6-7 years. Spurrier resigned (although he may have been urged to do so) and Gibbs also resigned after 4 seasons. So in reality his last firing was Marty way back when.

Wha? Choosing bad coaches is his choice. Spurrier? Zorn? You think if Gibbs saw a light at the end of the tunnel he wouldn't of stuck around? It's a product of the dysfunctional culture.

Bringing in high profile players: Yes, he brought in Albert Haynesworth but he was a HOT commodity and who could blame him for doing so? What other high profile player did he sign this offseason? I can't think of one - although he may have overpaid for DeAngelo.
I think the complaint is bringing in poor players who don't work together as a team. The record says it all. He has no background to suggest he would have a talent for putting together an NFL team, so the burden of proof is all on Danny and Vinny.


What Snyder is quilty of is overpaying and of course, keeping Vinny but the other things he gets criticized for have not really been relevant in recent years.

Again, the more we gloss over the problem the longer our misery will last.
WE'RE
NOT
BUYING
IT
ANY
MORE.
Long live the Burgundy Revolution.
Down with the Maroon and Gold Enablers.

Posted by: positiveforce | October 7, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

The high road is for Snyder and Vinny to vacate their positions and turn the team over to a trust until such time as a credible managment structure and personnel can be hired.

Posted by: i155133

Yes, thats it, snyder will turn over his team. Comments like this is why I say skins fans get what they deserve. Let me ask you, If I dont think you are good at your job will you quit because of it? Nothing is more idiotic than fans demanding snyder sell the team. He is not selling. He just needs to allow a GM and coaches to make the decisions. And Vinny could be an decent GM if he was not forced to listen to Snyder. That is his downfall, not his draft decisions, but his position of having to do what snyder suggest leads to bad personnel decisions. Snyder is making the bad ones and Vinny is catching all the heat. Just like hiring an inexperienced coach then firing him because he does not overacheive. Why do you hire Zorn and expect him to be Bill Parcells in less than one season? .500 ball is about what I expected from Zorn at this point with the personnel they have and the holes in it. Did we really expect playoffs and superbowls in less than two seasons with Zorn? I didn't. By my assessment he is doing average as compared to the rest of the league which is good for him at this point. Now if you gave Zorn 3 full seasons with a GM that makes decisions with the coaches and not the owner and he still could not coach the team above .500 then you could yank him, but after one season with no input in personnel decisions in two offseasons and 4 games into the second and he is still 500 with the possibility of being above 500 thats actually good. What was Parcells record with the Cowboys and Jerry Jones let him run the show? Not much better than Zorn's if he can finish above 500.

Posted by: ged0386 | October 7, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

BTW, now would be a good time for Zorn to call some plays to Marko Mitchell in the red zone. Zorn has nothing to lose at this point. No need to kiss management's a** anymore. Let it all hang out!

Posted by: dannykurland1 | October 7, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

I don't know how Snyder got successful in his communicaitons business, but it sure doens't translate to running a football team.

In Business 101 you learn that when things aren't going well, you take a close look at similar buisnesses that are having success and see what you can learn (steal) from them.

In the NFL, you don't have to look far for this. You just need to study how NE, Balt, Indy, Pitt do things (hire a strong GM, build your lines first, hang on to and accumate extra draft picks, be very selective about acquiring high-priced free-agents, deal high-priced veterans a year or two too soon rather than getting stuck paying for their inevitable decline, draft young running backs and rent older RBs).

This isn't brain surgery. But Snyder/Vinny are way to busy making dinner reservations and making the same mistakes over and over again to notice that this is an open-book test and the answers are right in front of them.

Posted by: hapster | October 7, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

i think it's pretty obvious the team views zorn as a joke

http://www.comcastsportsnet.tv/

Posted by: nattylite88 | October 7, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

ged is right. Snyder made his money very quickly off of marketing. It's the definition of new money and he's using that same get rich quick thinking with the team. He is not a bad businessman, he is a great businessman! In this situation he sees an area where it doesn't look like we know what were doing and he hires a consultant. Sounds just like your average fortune 500 company.

I would say now that he should assess his own business function and maybe hire a consultant for himself or replace himself as CEO for the good of his company but....he is making a buttload of money!!! His business is doing great thanks to my season ticket money. Until we rock the business with our wallets, lets shut up about Snyder giving up the team. It's completely crazy to keep this up while he is raking in millions.

Posted by: jrbell84 | October 7, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Whats up with you Snyder defenders. What has he done with the skins to deserve your protection.

Posted by: Redskins001 | October 7, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Protection from what? The throngs of people living in imaginary world? He owns the Skins, we don't. We are just customers, call yourself a client if you have an account with season tickets. Unless we plan some revolution where the seats are completely empty, there is nothing we can do. It's like people think they can hurt his billion dollar feelings on these message boards. He can buy consolation.

Posted by: jrbell84 | October 7, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Snyder solidifies his position as the worst onwer of a professional sports franchise. This is another indication Snyder doesn't know how to run an NFL franchise. This is a typical move in the corpoarte world where consultants are brought in to solve a problem when the salvation is to fire the top dog, but of course that's not going to happen.

Recall this is not the first time Snyder has brought in a consultant to solve a problem with the team on the field.

As was said earlier above and frequently in my other posts, " Look into the mirror boy".

4-12 here we come.

Posted by: pjente | October 7, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

He won't hire a new coach until the offseason. This is just an interim move. Here comes Shanahan or Holmgren in 2010.

Posted by: shanks1 | October 7, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Ultimately, though, the move indicates Snyder's lack of confidence in Zorn

By Jason Reid | October 6, 2009; 10:00 PM ET

Maybe it's just me, but I don't recall the Redskins beat writers responding the same way the when offensive gurus were brought in under previous coaches in the Snyder era.

I'm still not understanding what the big deal is. We have had a couple of dropped TD passes this year already, but other than that our offense has shown the ability to consistently move the ball down the field. Now, obviously, we've had issues getting the ball in the end zone once in the red zone. But be patient, that will change.

Just my 2 cents.

Posted by: Barno1 | October 7, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

There ain't nobody on this planet or any other one who thinks Zorny is getting another season as head coach of this team.

Sherm coming in is just another act in the Cirque du Dannay show.

Posted by: rev_ollie | October 7, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Snyder sucks. That is all.

Posted by: futbolclif | October 7, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

There ain't nobody on this planet or any other one who thinks Zorny is getting another season as head coach of this team.

Sherm coming in is just another act in the Cirque du Dannay show.

Posted by: rev_ollie | October 7, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Nonsense. I think Zorn will here for years to come.

Posted by: Barno1 | October 7, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Let's hire a consultant for the front office. I think we might see some opportunities for improvement.

Posted by: donsilvester | October 7, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone outside of Sherman Lewis' immediately family and Dan Snyder think that this move will improve this team one iota? The jury has returned its verdict and the answer is no....

Posted by: randysbailin | October 7, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins NEED a GENERAL MANAGER!!!!!!! Hail to the Redskins.

Posted by: vexed50verizonnet | October 7, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

JR

your last paragraph is beautiful written and the irony can't be ignored. After Sherman Lewis sees the obvious, maybe he'll fire Zorn anyway.

Lance


Posted by: lancer1 | October 7, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

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