At the bye: the offense comes up short

Our at-the-bye series continues with a look at the Redskins' offense. On Friday, Barry Svrluga will dissect special teams; Rick Maese posted on the defense.

At this time last season, the Redskins were 6-2, quarterback Jason Campbell had passer ratings of at least 104 in four games, running back Clinton Portis was the NFL's leading rusher and rookie head coach Jim Zorn was the toast of the town. Washington's veteran offensive line provided the foundation for the surprising success on offense to that point, and it seemed the team could be headed to bigger things if the unit remained physically sound for 16 games.

Of course, the line fell apart because of injuries. The Redskins went 2-6 in the second half, finished 8-8 and missed the playoffs for the seventh time in 10 seasons under owner Daniel Snyder.

Those offensive line problems were identified in an internal offseason evaluation of the roster but were never adequately addressed, and so far this season, the Redskins are experiencing an offensive crisis that holds no promise of ending over their final nine games.

With just 96 points in seven games, the Redskins are averaging 13.7 points, tied for 28th in the league. The New Orleans Saints, the league's No. 1 offense, have scored 142 more points than the Redskins in just six games. Washington is averaging 296 yards (24th in the league) and has experienced a major drop-off in the running game, falling from second overall at this point in 2008 to 21st this season.

Washington (2-5) has not been able to overcome its major deficiencies along the offensive line, and league sources who have reviewed video of the team's games do not expect much to change this season. The Redskins' linemen too often lose individual battles in pass protection and the running game, said one longtime NFL player-personnel executive on another team, and with left tackle Chris Samuels and right guard Randy Thomas now lost to injuries, most of their linemen are "long-term projects" or "just guys."

Samuels and Thomas were coming off multiple offseason surgeries. Many in the organization expected Samuels and Thomas to miss some, if not all, of the season. Thomas's season ended in Week 2 because of a triceps injury, and Samuels suffered a severe season-ending neck injury in Week 5. Washington brought back guard Derrick Dockery to replace left guard Pete Kendall and made a push to sign Seattle Seahawks tackle Ray Willis.

Considering the magnitude of their problems along the line, and the fact the team had playoff aspirations, the Redskins should have done more to bolster it, players said this week. The team's problems in pass protection were glaring in Monday night's 27-17 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles at FedEx Field. The Eagles had six sacks and throughout the second half pummeled quarterback Jason Campbell.

"You have to be able to protect your quarterback. That's one of the basic fundamentals of football," middle linebacker London Fletcher said. You have to be "able to protect the quarterback, so he can take something more than a three-step drop -- a five-step, seven-step drop -- and not worry about getting hit or being hit, sacked and pressured as much as he was hit [against Philadelphia]. It was only six sacks that they got, but it seemed like double-figure sacks. I asked some of the guys after the game, 'How many sacks did they have?' Watching the game, you feel bad for him with how many hits he's taking. It's just like ... boy."

And here's a sobering thought for the Redskins: In their final nine games, they face three teams (the New York Giants, Denver Broncos and Eagles) ranked among the top 10 defensively and four teams (the Broncos, Eagles, Giants and Oakland Raiders) in the top eight in sacks.

Although the Redskins were statistically among the league leaders on defense last season as well, management was frustrated because of the team's lack of big plays. Snyder and Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, committed $41 million guaranteed in free agency to lure all-pro defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth from the Tennessee Titans, $23.5 million guaranteed to retain cornerback DeAngelo Hall before he could test the market and used the 13th overall pick on defensive end/strong-side linebacker Brian Orakpo.

Although defensive coordinator Greg Blache has played down the impact of Haynesworth on others, Haynesworth has helped to raise the level of play of those around him -- especially defensive end Andre Carter -- many in the organization say. Hall has the team's three interceptions and is averaging 28 yards on interception returns. And Orakpo could be a perennial Pro Bowler once he is permitted to become a full-time rush end.

The Redskins, however, did not acquire anyone with the skills to make a similar impact on offense. The Baltimore Ravens have had a much better track record than the Redskins at drafting and developing offensive linemen, and they selected tackle Michael Oher with the 23rd overall pick. Oher has started six games for Baltimore, moving from right tackle to the left side to replace the injured Jared Gaither.

"We got to address and get some depth," Portis said. "We went into the season, and we didn't address that issue and it came back to haunt us."

Benched for the second half of the loss to Kansas City in Week 6, Campbell returned to the starting lineup against Philadelphia. Campbell acknowledged his play has been adversely affected because of his concern about pass protection, and some close to Campbell say he is struggling under the weight of believing he cannot afford to make mistakes because of the overall lack of talent on offense.

Campbell is not a good fit for any version of the West Coast offense, according to some NFL talent evaluators, because of the quick decisions and precision throws the scheme requires of quarterbacks. I've heard that from guys I respect in the game, but I don't totally buy it. I mean, when the line was intact in the first half last season and Portis ran with a burst, Campbell sure seemed to be pretty good in this offense, especially during a four-game winning streak after a season-opening loss to the Giants.

The fifth-year player threw a game-winning 67-yard touchdown pass to Santana Moss against the New Orleans Saints. Campbell completed 73.3 percent of his passes against the Arizona Cardinals. He made big plays in a rare road win at Texas Stadium and helped the team overcome a slow start in another road victory at Philadelphia.

Whether Campbell is miscast in a West Coast system, he wasn't drafted to operate this type of offense. He was drafted to play in Joe Gibbs's offense: Deep play-action passing and a power running game behind a big-time line. Well, Gibbs's return didn't work out as well as Redskins fans hoped, and Campbell has had to learn multiple systems instead of having the opportunity to learn and develop in one. He is in his second season under Zorn after learning from former offensive coordinator and play-caller Al Saunders for two. And then Campell spent this offseason in limbo, as Snyder and Cerrato attempted to acquire quarterback Jay Cutler.

With the problems along the line, no running game to speak of this season, and having been undermined by management in the offseason, well, it would be hard to fairly evaluate any quarterback under those circumstances.

Although the line is among the worst in the league, Portis did not run well when Samuels and Thomas were in the lineup, league sources said. The Redskins decided to carry five running backs on the 53-man roster at one point because, in large part, of concern about Portis coming out of training camp. With Portis's injury problems in the second half last season and the way running backs with Portis's mileage have historically slowed down at this stage of their careers, the Redskins should have selected a running back in the 2009 draft. They didn't.

Pro Bowl tight end Chris Cooley might return this season after undergoing surgery Wednesday to repair a broken bone in his foot -- and that would be welcome news for Campbell and backup Todd Collins. The Redskins still are trying to determine whether second-year players Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas and Fred Davis are capable of being consistent playmakers in the passing game; the team's next head coach will likely make that determination.

As for Zorn, we'll never really know what type of offensive coordinator and play-caller he could have been. With the roster's deficiencies on offense, he never really had a chance.

By Jason Reid  |  October 29, 2009; 1:13 PM ET
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Comments

Everyone who say we need a veteran FA QB to hold the fort and draft stud linemen...with stud linemen JC could be that veteran QB to hold the fort...I just think no QB would do good behind this O-line..not even Peyton..

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 29, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

JC is not a good enough QB, I'd take Toddball over him right now. He left at least 7 easy completions and a TD on the field Monday night with inaccuracy and his terrible read on the pump and go on Santanna who was wide open for 6. He can't read defenses and he's inaccurate. Heck I'd prefer Charlie Batch or Sage Rosenfels over JC. I'm just over him, he can't play in this league as anything more than a backup.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 29, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

not too mention, the bridge is burned, JC is gone, just accept it, after last offseason and this crap season there's no way he's coming back.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 29, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 29, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I dont see the smarts in drafting the QB of the franchise if we dont have the OL to support it, I dont think we are going to be much better next year, so we could get a veteran to fill in, build OL and other key positions on Defense OLB and DB, then get the QB the following draft...

Posted by: mhartz1 | October 29, 2009 12:54 PM |

You gots to be adaptive. The 2010 draft is supposed to be QB rich, not so with OL. Take a page out of the Andy Reid book of coaching. He's a WCO dude, but he drafted DeSean Jack, who is def not a WCO WR. Why? Because Andy knew that he could adapt his O to fit Jack's unique talent/skill set and Jack was the best WR out there. Coitainly better than DT and FD, who were snatched up by our suckjob GM when Jack was sitting there for the taking.

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

"At the bye: the offense comes up short"

from Sally Jenkins,
"....Zorn, in a measured but quietly mutinous way, made it clear that one result was plays in which the pass routes and the protection schemes didn't match up. Campbell was sacked a bone-crushing six times."


Nothing like chemistry where the elements blow each other up.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

in a way, could this be the best thing to happen to the team?? here me out on this. Samuels and Thomas went down as expected, Chris will probably have to retire, so could they be FORCED into a situation where they HAVE TO draft/sign ol players. Chris and Randy coming back last year was somewhat of a security blanket, and them being older, and getting injured AGAIN, is somewhat of a blessing in disguise...because had they stayed healthy, and the team went 8-8, or thereabouts, we'd be in the mind-set of 1 player away.....

as well, could the failure of this team, could that very well lead to VC getting fired, and DS hiring a GM??

like with a drug addict, or alcoholic, you have to hit rock bottom, before you can start thinking about change....

we're getting close to rock bottom.

your thoughts...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2

"...not too mention, the bridge is burned, JC is gone, just accept it, after last offseason and this crap season there's no way he's coming back."


Jason Campbell will be a restricted free agent.

He ain't going no where, so give him a low ball contrct and let him take licks while the offensive line gets an off-season rebuilding.

That is, if team F!ck up decides if that's what needs to be done.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Let me offer this as grist for the mill:

-Zorn's tinkering with Campbell's mechanics have actually made him less accurate.

-Offseason noise about trading Campbell has destroyed his confidence in his abilities and he often takes the high percentage play instead of the go-for-the-gusto play.

-The woes on the offensive line have made him rush his passes, not step into them, and bail out on longer routes.

All of this offered in some defense of Campbell's regression. Admittedly, he was not a good fit for this offense, but adding these factors have moved him from "adequate" to "terrible". It's going to take a different offensive system and a lot of work on his confidence before he can become a productive quarterback again, and I don't think it will be with this team. It is a shame that Zorn could not have pulled off a trade for Campbell immediately after he arrived, because he had to know he really didn't have the right guy, but this is water under the bridge now, and that lack of action probably has cost Zorn his job in DC as well.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 29, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

During the MNF game they showed a pic of the GB coaching staff circa the 90's. Holmgren was the HC. On his staff were Reid, Eagles HC, Lewis, Skins play caller, Gruden, HC in waiting. Not in the pic? Zornball! Hah!

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

"He never really had a chance"
I don't know if there's ever been a better quote that applies to anyone that's come to play or coach for this team.

Posted by: pgugino | October 29, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

in a way, could this be the best thing to happen to the team?? here me out on this. Samuels and Thomas went down as expected, Chris will probably have to retire, so could they be FORCED into a situation where they HAVE TO draft/sign ol players. Chris and Randy coming back last year was somewhat of a security blanket, and them being older, and getting injured AGAIN, is somewhat of a blessing in disguise...because had they stayed healthy, and the team went 8-8, or thereabouts, we'd be in the mind-set of 1 player away.....

as well, could the failure of this team, could that very well lead to VC getting fired, and DS hiring a GM??

like with a drug addict, or alcoholic, you have to hit rock bottom, before you can start thinking about change....

we're getting close to rock bottom.

your thoughts...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Let me first say that I think Snyder will eventually get it in terms of how to run a team. So I am hoping that this horrible of a season teaches him some lessons and puts him on the fast track to getting it(i.e. higher a strong GM and let him handle personnel without his interference).

With that in mind, I think 7-9 or 8-8 would have been the worst thing to happen to this team for many reasons.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

THIS IS GARBAGE! JReid, the offensive system has nothing to do with qb poise, attitude, and effort. Jason Campbell fumbles the ball, WHEN THERE IS NO ONE AROUND HIM! I am sick and tired of excuses week in and week out. Jason Campbell is a bust, and will never be a champ.

Posted by: BMACattack | October 29, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse


Dude, I'm 419, row 18. Small world.

Posted by: themantoyou
anytime you need extra let me know, I am up in CT and usually only go to 2 games

Posted by: connskins | October 29, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

just read sally's piece...ugh! and can't imagine the other dude, tony's coattail rider, being any better.

Mr. Boz, PLEASE, PLEASE!!! you're the only good writer left on wapo's sports staff. PLEASE PLEASE WRITE "FIRE CERRATO" column. PLEASE!!! stop beating around the bush and just say it! FIRE CERRATO!!!!!!!!!! AND STOP MEDDLING! PLEASE! THIS CITY NEEDS YOU!!!! now more than ever. pen that mother!!!! PLEASE!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | October 29, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse
No, who we really need is Bob Woodward to write it.

re-Posted by: frediefritz | October 29, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz | October 29, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

With that in mind, I think 7-9 or 8-8 would have been the worst thing to happen to this team for many reasons.


exactly, it would have been the same approach as last year, where the OL gets ignored. hopefully they'll be so bad this year, that there isn't any way they can ignore the ol...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Also, Casey Rabach needs to go, he is terrible.

Posted by: BMACattack | October 29, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Even though JC17 will be a RFA, the team doesn't have to tender him at all, so he could be a unrestricted free agent.

Don't see that happening though, even under Vincenzo Cerrato. I'm sure they'll tender him low to see if someone will make a trade offer. If not, they have a cheap QB rental to break-in (literally) their new OL.

Posted by: jesuisunpizza | October 29, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

The team's problems in pass protection were glaring in Monday night's 27-17 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles at FedEx Field. The Eagles had six sacks and throughout the second half pummeled quarterback Jason Campbell.

It was mostly Campbell's fault. The Eagles blitzing had him completely befuddled and bamboozled. Campbell gave the tired "dear in the headlights" cliche new life.

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Why the fixation on the redskins' defense?

The defense really hasn't been blow off the field or given up tons 'o points.

The offense is what can't be defended.

Not being able to score three touchdowns and a field goal every game--the NFL minimum--is why the team is where it's at.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 8:15 AM

The focus is on the defense because that's where all the big money players and highest draft picks went in the offseason. We took a top 5 defense and added the best defensive player in the NFL (who gets credit for raising the game of those around him) and a #13 overall pick. We paid $23.5M guaranteed to retain a CB picked up half-way through last season.

On the other hand, we got overweight and reject guys to fill gaping holes on offense.

The Steelers offense scored as many points as the Skins offense: 13. But they beat an undefeated team with the best RB in the NFL and a HOF QB because their defense scored 2 TDs.

Our defense would have to be like the Steelers defense for this team to be a legit playoff threat. It ain't, and after all that investment it's legitimate to ask, "Why not?".

Posted by: Alan4 | October 29, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Colorblind

Despite a plethora of green at FedEx Field on Monday, Redskins general counsel Dave Donovan said on WJFK that there was "hardly an Eagles fan" in the announced crowd of 88,241.

Haynesworth had a different take.

"The fans are losing interest," he said. "The more games we've played, the fewer the fans have come. It's getting bad."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/28/portis-offenses-woes-run-deep/?page=2

Ha! Ha! Ha! Donovan gives every other lawyer in the world a bad rep!

Also, I too, saw the DeAngelo interview where he repeated Portis' comments that the O-line depth wasn't addressed n the offseason. He also said there were guys who quit (specifically mentioning pass blockers--based on the number of times Campbell was hit).

Posted by: nojunk4me | October 29, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Let me offer this as grist for the mill:

-Zorn's tinkering with Campbell's mechanics have actually made him less accurate.

-Offseason noise about trading Campbell has destroyed his confidence in his abilities and he often takes the high percentage play instead of the go-for-the-gusto play.
Posted by: RedSkinHead

Good points....

-The woes on the offensive line have made him rush his passes, not step into them, and bail out on longer routes.

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 29, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Reid: "Campbell is not a good fit for any version of the West Coast offense, according to some NFL talent evaluators, because of the quick decisions and precision throws the scheme requires of quarterbacks. I've heard that from guys I respect in the game, but I don't totally buy it. I mean, when the line was intact in the first half last season and Portis ran with a burst, Campbell sure seemed to be pretty good in this offense, especially during a four-game winning streak after a season-opening loss to the Giants."

The fact of the matter is that Z fooled the opponents' D in the first half of 2008 by using Gibbs O when they were expecting WCO. After they caught on and shut down Port-o-let and Moss he and the Skins were kaput. Why did he use Gibbs O? Stroke of genius? No. He used Gibbs O out of necessity because he was the only O coach that knew WCO. LMAO!

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"As for Zorn, we'll never really know what type of offensive coordinator and play-caller he could have been. With the roster's deficiencies on offense, he never really had a chance."

Zorn showed what type of HC/OC he could be with his poor game management, game planning, and play calling.

What does it say about Zorn when a guy who was given 2 weeks to learn an offense calls a better game?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I think the redskins should pass to setup the run just short slants or screens to those big recievers se what they can do maybe that will open up small holes. student body right to run behind.

Posted by: BJ921 | October 29, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

I deeply hope you are wrong 4th and actually think you are wrong. I think snyder is gonna can vinny I really do.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 29, 2009 12:37 PM

When has Snyder followed the lead of the masses? Nev-a.

Cerrato is going to keep Zorn to show Snyder that Zorn is regressing the team. Will tell him they started 6-2 last yer off the fumes of Gibbs 2.4, CP26, and the OLine before it was devasted by injury. And that he didn't realize that zorn could be sooo stubborn and that he is actually undermining the team. And Snyder will agree.

I am starting to get that 'Cerrato is staying' twitch. Similar to when when Lisa was forced to pretand marry Screech in thier Home Ec. class.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 29, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

With that in mind, I think 7-9 or 8-8 would have been the worst thing to happen to this team for many reasons.


exactly, it would have been the same approach as last year, where the OL gets ignored. hopefully they'll be so bad this year, that there isn't any way they can ignore the ol...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 1:42 PM

Totally agree. While I hate watching them implode against rivals, the best thing that can happen is they don't win another game this year and Snyder finally gets it through his thick skull that we need a competent football person to run this team.

Posted by: Moose33 | October 29, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

exactly, it would have been the same approach as last year, where the OL gets ignored. hopefully they'll be so bad this year, that there isn't any way they can ignore the ol...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

If we are sitting here a year from now having the same conversation about Vinny/the o-line being completely ignored, then the Redskins are truly f'd.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

-The woes on the offensive line have made him rush his passes, not step into them, and bail out on longer routes.


Posted by: jcnjcnj


QBs get hit every Sunday. If Campbell is worried about taking a few shots, then he should ask to be pulled from the game citing lack of pass protection and fear.

Since the likelihood of him doing this is zero perecent, he needs to ditch the "shook" mentality and just f'ing play the QB position.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 29, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

And that he didn't realize that zorn could be sooo stubborn and that he is actually undermining the team. And Snyder will agree.
Posted by: 4thFloor |

Yes Zorn is full of himself thats why he feels he was doing a good job play calling and wouldn't let someone else try. He still feels that way. And that's why the 3 2nd rounders wasn't involved because Zorn is stubborn...He's gotz to go...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 29, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

... he needs to ditch the "shook" mentality and just f'ing play the QB position.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 29, 2009 1:58 PM |

He need repetoire of excuses for his resume when he be job hunting in 2010.

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

The sad part about all this is even if all our wished came true and Danny canned Vinny, hired a good GM and took himself out of the decision making process, we're still years away from actually contenting. We need some time to get the o-line in gear, still need to figure out if any of the second round picks will pan out, probably need another QB and who knows what else will fall apart during this time.

Vinny and Dan set this franchise back so many years, it's very hard to have a positive outlook on the future.

Posted by: Moose33 | October 29, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV...I mistakenly took credit for something redskinhead said..I was agreeing with redskinhead on the point about the mechanics etc...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 29, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Campbell is not a good fit for any version of the West Coast offense, according to some NFL talent evaluators, because of the quick decisions and precision throws the scheme requires of quarterbacks. I've heard that from guys I respect in the game, but I don't totally buy it. I mean, when the line was intact in the first half last season and Portis ran with a burst, Campbell sure seemed to be pretty good in this offense, especially during a four-game winning streak after a season-opening loss to the Giants.

By JReid

__________________________________________________

Prime Example of being 'In the Tank'. These beat reporters ALWAYS qoute sources. They ALWAYS use 'sources' to back up their argument. But, once they start bashing good guy Campbell, the one who undefeated Josh McDaniels didn't want, the one who Charley Casserly and Jaws pulled tape out to show bad decision making by being slow to pull the trigger and throw it down field, he now goes 'against the grain'.

Why? BEcause JC17 is one of his internal 'sources'? Because he is such a nice fellow? I don't get it. He just broke from consistency.

And lastly, he named Portis performing well and the OLine beasting out. If you have a fantastic running game and OLine, shouldn't the QB be good? For an example, please see Rypien, Mark; circa 1991.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 29, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

moose, the bills are starting 3 rooks on their o-line, so success is not that far off, IF, IF they can draft OL, with their first 2 draft picks....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Dave Donovan - Vinny Cerrato: Dan has a puppet for each hand. He is very good though. You can barely see his lips move when these guys speak...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 29, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Beantown

Now you are comming round to my line of thinking "total and final humilulation" is our only hope for a total overhall rebuild behind a solid Gm and coach... any success by our team over the next nine games will cause danny and vinny to think we are on the right path with the status quo making the football decisions....repeat after me "Total and final humilulation"...its our only hope....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | October 29, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

The sad part about all this is even if all our wished came true and Danny canned Vinny, hired a good GM and took himself out of the decision making process, we're still years away from actually contenting. We need some time to get the o-line in gear, still need to figure out if any of the second round picks will pan out, probably need another QB and who knows what else will fall apart during this time.
Posted by: Moose33

I disagree..we can build a decent line through FA..anybody know who'll be a FA this off-season?..and I think mondays game shows that the trio can play if they're giving a chance...like letting DT11 return punts...throw a slant to MK12..and draft some stud OL to groom or put right in there...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 29, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Bean, yes but how far away are the bills from seriously contending? 2-3 years, maybe more? We don't even have rookie o-lineman to groom yet.

Posted by: Moose33 | October 29, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

I deeply hope you are wrong 4th and actually think you are wrong. I think snyder is gonna can vinny I really do.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 29, 2009 12:37 PM

When has Snyder followed the lead of the masses? Nev-a.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 29, 2009 1:51 PM

I'm with CL on this one. Snyder wants to win, and it's pretty clear to everyone that he can't win with Vinny.

Posted by: League-Source | October 29, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

I don't know, jcnjcnj, you don't think Campbell's mechanics needed some adjusting?

Maybe it was the style in which he was coached. At least Campbell is coachable, I think guys like Vince Young and JaMarcus aren't.

Posted by: RedDMV | October 29, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

like with a drug addict, or alcoholic, you have to hit rock bottom, before you can start thinking about change....

we're getting close to rock bottom.

your thoughts...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 1:25 PM

2-14 should do the trick.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 29, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

any success by our team over the next nine games will cause danny and vinny to think we are on the right path with the status quo making the football decisions....
Posted by: OriginalOldschool |

Oldschool...I think Danny has heard what he needs to hear and seen what he needs to see and Vinsanity will be canned no matter how the season ends unless we win it all...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 29, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Hey, this is a play off team waiting for the right overpaid rookie QB to save it.

We'll see that next year, if the games aren't blacked out.

Stay tuned for more of the vinnie and danny show!

Posted by: Thinker_ | October 29, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Dan Snyder's $ + No salary cap - vinny cerrato = championship

Seriously though, with an uncapped year and smart GM + HC combo and Snyder's money, I think they could rebuild faster than you give them credit for Moose.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

What's up with Vinny's eyes?

Coke habit, anyone?

Posted by: Thinker_ | October 29, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Oalan4

"Our defense would have to be like the Steelers defense for this team to be a legit playoff threat. It ain't, and after all that investment it's legitimate to ask, "Why not?"."

Folks, we have to have a short 'chronic' break.

(INSERT image of bleary-eyed Moe passing around a funny looking cigarette.)

What the stillers defense did last year was the exception, not the rule.

Defenses like the bears '85 or the ravens 2000 or the bucs 2001-3 are rare, and there's no way to buy a big time defense just like there's no way to buy a big time offense.

The scheme and concepts those defenses featured were the end result of drafting, planning, scouting, and careful talent acquisition.

But those defenses worked because the offenses the teams put on the field, had good running games, and quarterbacks that managed games well.

You can attack an opposing offense better if your own offense has long drives, a strong running game, and can get the NFL minimum of 3 touchdowns and a field goal.

Ours can't, and thinking a great defense will score like a mediocre offense is at the core of the present redskin FO thinking.

The offense needs and off-season like the defense has had where planning, scheme, and players are all meshed together to present a cohesive unit.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

not too mention, the bridge is burned, JC is gone, just accept it, after last offseason and this crap season there's no way he's coming back.

Posted by: zjfr2 | October 29, 2009 1:15 PM |

Speaking of bridges, a 3 ton girder fell off the Bay Bridge into rush hour traffic and no one was injured. All I gots to say is "Phew!"

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

QBs get hit every Sunday. If Campbell is worried about taking a few shots, then he should ask to be pulled from the game citing lack of pass protection and fear.

Since the likelihood of him doing this is zero perecent, he needs to ditch the "shook" mentality and just f'ing play the QB position.

Posted by: RedDMV

I agree but not going to happen. He is snake bit. Campbell reminds me of Jay Schroeder after the shoulder injury: the guy was always rushing passes or bailing early - he was hearing footsteps. There's something else that Campbell lacks that I think plays into this. Some people call it pocket presence - maybe it is just having very good peripheral vision - whatever it is, Campbell doesn't have it. He has been blind-sided so many timesand never knew it was coming. (Remember that hit by Osi in the opener?) A thing like that shakes your confidence in your own abilities: you start to see ghosts on every play. Like I said, he's snake bit.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | October 29, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV, I agree Campbell is coachable and thats always good and as far as mechanics...maybe it could have been fined tuned..but you have to be careful not to change the way a guy plays..Zorn would have change Rivers(SD) throwing motion as well and people say he's a pro bowl QB. Sometimes the technical stuff inhibits the natural way a player plays..thing that come natural are sometimes the best for you...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 29, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Dan Snyder's $ + No salary cap - vinny cerrato = championship

Seriously though, with an uncapped year and smart GM + HC combo and Snyder's money, I think they could rebuild faster than you give them credit for Moose.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 2:14 PM

I hope so but you have to consider that with a new coach coming in and possibly a new QB (if it's a draft pick then the wait will be longer) and overhaluing the o-line, there is alot of turnover on the offensive side of the ball, not to mention yet another playbook and offensive scheme change. They will need time to be a cohesive unit.

Posted by: Moose33 | October 29, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

And that he didn't realize that zorn could be sooo stubborn and that he is actually undermining the team. And Snyder will agree.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 29, 2009 1:51 PM

Zorn is undermining the team? Adjust the tin foil hat, 4th...you're picking up interference from KCNA.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 29, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"we're getting close to rock bottom."

Redskins fans, me included, are getting close to rock bottom.

The Redskins ownership and management, however, has far, far, far to fall.

They could stock the team with 60-year-old ballerinas and move the team to LA, for example. With Danny and the Vinny, anything's possible.

Posted by: Meepo | October 29, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

2-14 should do the trick.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 29, 2009 2:12 PM |

Skins vs. Oak. Epic battle of execrable teams with execrable owners. Speaking of which, how long do you think it will be before the Skins get another MNF gig? Will Snyder still own the team? Heh, heh.

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Browns owner Randy Lerner in response to a planned protest by the fans. An owner being "accountable." Huh?! Go figure.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/67176022.html

Posted by: 4-12 | October 29, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Dan Snyder's $ + No salary cap - vinny cerrato = championship

Seriously though, with an uncapped year and smart GM + HC combo and Snyder's money, I think they could rebuild faster than you give them credit for Moose.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8
--------

There are plenty of other owners who will also be willing to spend quadrillions. Also, the key thing you said is "they could" - but they wont, because of Snyder. Everything he does is Wrong. He has the "Snyder touch" which is like the Midas touch except everything he touches either gets injured, fired, or drained of love for the game.

Posted by: REXskins | October 29, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Not defending Campbell, but I do subscribe to the Parcells theory that everything begins and ends in the trenches. His first draft as President of Football Operations with the Dolphins almost all they did was take offensive and defensive lineman -- in fact 6 of their picks were linemen. Combine that with some good RB's (Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown), and an above average, but not great, QB like Pennington, and 11-5 happened. So while JC won't ever take us to a Super Bowl, I think he could be the QB of a playoff team if the line was properly built around him...just my opinion...

Posted by: mattylight | October 29, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

"With Portis's injury problems in the second half last season" Betts was the one who missed games, not Portis, get it straight! Isn't that your job, Mayor of?

"it would be hard to fairly evaluate any quarterback under those circumstances." here is a good point!

["You have to be able to protect your quarterback. That's one of the basic fundamentals of football," middle linebacker London Fletcher said.] Listen to someone who knows.

"Orakpo could be a perennial Pro Bowler once he is permitted to become a full-time rush end." This is a big leap, who'd b the LB then?

"when the line was intact in the first half last season and Portis ran with a burst" Portis had the burst on a 34 run vs. the Giants and a 78 yarder vs the Chiefs. RBs need lanes to run in Mayor.

"As for Zorn,...,he never really had a chance." True that. Nor did any other coach or player in the Snyder era.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 29, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

your thoughts...


Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I agree with you completely, and it puts me in a real pickle: can't help but root for my team but kinda hope they have a horrendous record so they fire Cerrato(hands up in air mimicing the balancing of a scale).

Posted by: RomoShortball | October 29, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

boycott all redskin advertisers. all of them.

Posted by: californicationdude | October 29, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | October 29, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Who thought Rypien would ever lead a team to a Super Bowl?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 29, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

gonna can vinny I really do.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 29, 2009 12:37 PM

When has Snyder followed the lead of the masses? Nev-a.

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 29, 2009 1:51 PM

I'm with CL on this one. Snyder wants to win, and it's pretty clear to everyone that he can't win with Vinny.

Posted by: League-Source |

Well, even if Snyder cans Vinny it all depends on (i) who the new GM is; (ii) what authority the new GM has; and (iii) what role Snyder has. I'd say there is about a 10% chance that Snyder gets it right.

Posted by: Pepper5 | October 29, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

what a brilliant idea...look how browns fans are protesting!:


some Browns backers are encouraging fans to walk in late to the Nov. 16 home game against Baltimore.

Two longtime season-ticket holders came up with the idea after last Sunday's 31-3 loss to Green Bay.

They are hoping the temporarily empty seats for a nationally televised Monday night game will send a message to owner Randy Lerner that they want a better product on the field.

Posted by: dealer1 | October 29, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

brooklyn, can't access at work, what is it saying...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I agree this team could make a quick turnaround with an uncapped year. Easy get 3-5 quality O-lineman, hut-hut-hike,done

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 29, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Moe, FYI, I was talking about what the Steelers defense did last weekend, not last year.

Our team was built to win with defense, just like the Steelers.

Moe: "You can attack an opposing offense better if your own offense has long drives, a strong running game, and can get the NFL minimum of 3 touchdowns and a field goal."

Based on our scoring history, what makes anyone think this team was going to suddenly start scoring 3 TDs a game this year? Keep in mind, this short history covers 6 head coaches and 10 starting QBs--our scoring problem is nothing new:

2009: 13.7 pts/game
2008: 16.6 pts/game
2007: 20.0 pts/game
2006: 19.2 pts/game
2005: 22.4 pts/game
2004: 15.0 pts/game
2003: 17.9 pts/game
2002: 19.2 pts/game
2001: 16.0 pts/game
2000: 17.6 pts/game

I don't disagree with some aspects of what you're saying, but our defense was supposed to dominate this year and it hasn't. The offense wasn't going to make us a playoff team, the defense was. The defense should not be let off the hook just because they're holding toothless offenses under 20 points.

Posted by: Alan4 | October 29, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

pabrian

"Who thought Rypien would ever lead a team to a Super Bowl?"

Did Ryp led the skins to a Super Bowl or the '91 National Defense lead the team to the Super Bowl?

Stopping scoring and being able to score go hand in hand.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

you know the most frustrating part about vinny vs. zorny is that F'ing vinny hired the facker! and no one at the presser pointed that out. but then again he's already excused himself from taking blame for hiring zorny by saying "danny and i hired zorny"....mother faaacker! suck elephant sthi!

Posted by: dealer1 | October 29, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

alan4

2009: 13.7 pts/game
2008: 16.6 pts/game
2007: 20.0 pts/game
2006: 19.2 pts/game
2005: 22.4 pts/game
2004: 15.0 pts/game
2003: 17.9 pts/game
2002: 19.2 pts/game
2001: 16.0 pts/game
2000: 17.6 pts/game


Wow!

This info by itself is enough to scare an onwer into changing how he does things.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

seems like Snyder is really the GM, so firing Vinny is step 1, step 2 is Snyder backing off or vice versa

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 29, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

"You have to be able to protect your quarterback. That's one of the basic fundamentals of football," middle linebacker London Fletcher said.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 29, 2009 2:26 PM |

The finger pointing is starting to pick up mo:

1. Fletcher shti cans the O.
2. Port-o-let shti cans his blockers, Sellers in particular.
3. Cerrato shti cans everyone else. (It is a playoff caliber roster.)
4. Campbell shti cans the OL. (I'm gonna be sacked! I'm gonna be sacked!)
5. Z shti cans Lewis. (We changed play callers and gained nothing.)

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Who thought Rypien would ever lead a team to a Super Bowl?

no one.. that shows that a good line is the key to sucess...all JC needs is a good line...

Posted by: jcnjcnj | October 29, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Why cant we do this? Browns fans are going to protest

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4605603

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 29, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

alan4

2009: 13.7 pts/game
2008: 16.6 pts/game
2007: 20.0 pts/game
2006: 19.2 pts/game
2005: 22.4 pts/game
2004: 15.0 pts/game
2003: 17.9 pts/game
2002: 19.2 pts/game
2001: 16.0 pts/game
2000: 17.6 pts/game

Wow!

This info by itself is enough to scare an onwer into changing how he does things.

Posted by: MistaMoe

It also shows it isn't the current players or coaches fault!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 29, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

There are plenty of other owners who will also be willing to spend quadrillions. Also, the key thing you said is "they could" - but they wont, because of Snyder. Everything he does is Wrong. He has the "Snyder touch" which is like the Midas touch except everything he touches either gets injured, fired, or drained of love for the game.

Posted by: REXskins | October 29, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Rex, uncapped year doesn't mean a bidding war between 32 owners. Probably be about 8 owners in bidding war, the 2 richest being Danny and Jerry.

Anyway in an uncapped year, I could see the talent on the market being deep as some teams will cut quality players to save money.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

seriously guys, you need to stop comparing superbowl winning qb's with this idiot. it's very insulting to those winning qb's. please stop. we had a pretty good D and a pretty good O when skins were in the playoffs...this F'er was on the roster and the coach, hall of fame coach, who won 3 superbowls, DECIDED this F'er was no good. so PLEASE stop!!!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | October 29, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Who thought Rypien would ever lead a team to a Super Bowl?

no one.. that shows that a good line is the key to sucess...all JC needs is a good line...

Posted by: jcnjcnj

thank you for understanding my ppoint

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 29, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

pabrian

"Who thought Rypien would ever lead a team to a Super Bowl?"

Did Ryp led the skins to a Super Bowl or the '91 National Defense lead the team to the Super Bowl?

Stopping scoring and being able to score go hand in hand.

Posted by: MistaMoe

exactly, don't blame the QB or the D, when it is the mis-management of the offensive line

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 29, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

bean, we're all thinking it. and just like a no-hitter in the 4th inning no one is talking about it. we're all hoping deep down so shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't let tom cruise hear what your hopes are...

Posted by: dealer1 | October 29, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Anyway in an uncapped year, I could see the talent on the market being deep as some teams will cut quality players to save money.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 2:41 PM |

Skins should cut your boy Port-o-let but it won't save money and it won't make the "talent on the market" deep.

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

changes on the o-line: put jones in at left tackle take rabach out and move montgomery to center put rinehart in (after 3 games he does not improve insert batiste who is a guard and NOT a tackle) leave williams at right tackle, use portis and the new running back they brought in and run a down hill power running game. If jones can stay healthy he is far better than heyer who is a bad football player, rabach is too weak and makes too many a-hole mistakes. with this I think the pass protection will improve and run game..I don't trust cerrato's knowledge in drafting o-lineman or anyone else for that matter.

Posted by: wathu19 | October 29, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Skins should cut your boy Port-o-let but it won't save money and it won't make the "talent on the market" deep.

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Or they could pick up 3-5 good offensive linemen and protect their investment in Portis and who-ever is playing QB.

The only running back I can think of who might be able to succeed behind this o-line is Barry Sanders.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

You gots to be adaptive. The 2010 draft is supposed to be QB rich, not so with OL. Take a page out of the Andy Reid book of coaching. He's a WCO dude, but he drafted DeSean Jack, who is def not a WCO WR. Why?

HORSEHOCKEY! Yeah maybe you should take a page out Reid's book dude? He went out and got 3 top offensive lineman in free agency during the last offseason to shore up his decaying offensive line. What did the Redskins do? Nada zilch. AND NOW you're asking the fans to wait another minimum 3 years for a rookie quarterback to develop? WITHOUT any semblance of an offensive line? Without any stable offense in place, coaches, system? No way you get a reasonably young healthy guy like David Carr and see what you can do behind a big, strong, YOUNG offensive line made up of high round draft picks dude. Period. End of the frickin' story. Comprende?

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

changes on the o-line: put jones in at left tackle ...

Posted by: wathu19 | October 29, 2009 2:48 PM |

Skins have the wrong Levi at LT. Should be Brown, not Jones. But with such commonly used names as these two it is understandable that there could be a mix up.

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

"The only running back I can think of who might be able to succeed behind this o-line is Barry Sanders."

Thing is, the present ownership runs things like they were trained by Colonel Sanders.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

The only running back I can think of who might be able to succeed behind this o-line is Barry Sanders.

Gale Sayers, kind of the Darrell Green of running backs could, and did. And that is also why his career was cut drastically short. Is that what you numbnuts want? Draft a stud running back only to watch him get the life crushed out of him because he has no blocking?

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

My guess at this point is that you will see the hardest worker, the most motivated of the "projects" at Left Tackle before too long: Mike Williams. Jones moves to right tackle. Heyer will probably end up at guard doing the swing-man thang.

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Rex, uncapped year doesn't mean a bidding war between 32 owners. Probably be about 8 owners in bidding war, the 2 richest being Danny and Jerry.

Anyway in an uncapped year, I could see the talent on the market being deep as some teams will cut quality players to save money.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8
-------

So you're saying we're going to get the chance to bid against other owners for veteran "talent" that other teams no longer wish to hold on to?

Now I'm feeling REALLY optimistic! And maybe a little nostalgic...

Posted by: REXskins | October 29, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Again, Cerrato is not the problem, he is a symptom. Snyder is the problem. No matter who you get to replace Cerrato Snyder will stil be there acting like he actually knows something, making decisions. It won't work to fire the guy.

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Did Ryp led the skins to a Super Bowl or the '91 National Defense lead the team to the Super Bowl?
Stopping scoring and being able to score go hand in hand.
Posted by: MistaMoe
_____
Rypien did... Look at his stats that year.. he was great. Meanwhile a solid defense doesn't seem to help Campbell any. People say it's the system but let's be honest he wasn't that good when Gibbs was HC either.. I'll be so happy when he and that blank stare of his are GONE!!!


Posted by: sovine08 | October 29, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Yeah maybe you should take a page out Reid's book dude? He went out and got 3 top offensive lineman in free agency during the last offseason to shore up his decaying offensive line. ...

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 2:51 PM |

Besides being a boor and a bore you are also a dumb basterd. Petey was acquired from the Bills in a trade, not through FA. If you are going to tee off on peeps you should at least get your facts straight.

Posted by: MrPink | October 29, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

portispockets

"... in an uncapped year, I could see the talent on the market being deep as some teams will cut quality players to save money...."


Who cuts quality players to save money?

NFL teams are so loaded with caash, they'll re-up their quality players, and dump anyone in a bad deal or not playing up to his last deal.

For the skins, the following players should be cut, and/or released:


F. Smoot
C. Portis
R. Thomas
C. Rabach
M. Sellars
P. Daniels
S. Heyer
C. Rhinehart
M. Kelly
R. Cartwright
L. Betts
C. Samuels
A. Carter
A. Randle El
A. Baptiste
W. Montegomery


Losing these players--and not gaining some other team's dregs-- is the singular satisfaction redskins fans should hope for out of an 'uncapped year'.

The word is 'turnover'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Kind of an off-the-wall question, but with all the needs we have going into this offseason, would it make sense to try to trade AH? His play IMO hasn't hurt his stock much this season -- evidenced by how well Andre Carter is playing -- and I'm sure a few teams would be interested. If we could get a 1st round pick, I would think about it. Might get lucky too, in case the dude breaks down next year -- never has played a full 16 games anyway...

Just throwing that out there for discussion...

Posted by: mattylight | October 29, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

So what are you all going to do on Sunday with no Skins game ?

Posted by: joevick | October 29, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Did Ryp led the skins to a Super Bowl or the '91 National Defense lead the team to the Super Bowl?
Stopping scoring and being able to score go hand in hand.
Posted by: MistaMoe
_____
Rypien did... Look at his stats that year.. he was great. Meanwhile a solid defense doesn't seem to help Campbell any. People say it's the system but let's be honest he wasn't that good when Gibbs was HC either.. I'll be so happy when he and that blank stare of his are GOne!

yes, but did anyone think before or after that one season that Rypien was a great QB?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | October 29, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

"Who cuts quality players to save money?"

Who would think Derek Anderson would still be the starting QB in Cleveland? Brady Quinn is riding the bench just to save them 5 mil.

I'm not suggesting it will be every team but I think some small market teams will be looking to cut costs.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

So what are you all going to do on Sunday with no Skins game ?

Posted by: joevick | October 29, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Get through the day without the fear of complete humiliation and ridicule.

Posted by: Moose33 | October 29, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Try to find all the sharp objects I've had to hide over the past few weekends...

________________________________________________________

So what are you all going to do on Sunday with no Skins game ?

Posted by: joevick | October 29, 2009 3:10 PM |

Posted by: TimDz | October 29, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

One guy wants to cut Andre Carter, the next references how well he is playing. Have to agree with the latter. Why would you cut a guy with 6.5 sacks in 7 games?

The offensive line and JC all have to be sent packing. Dockery can be kept but the rest should be gone. Haynesworth is a good player but the sensible thing last year would have been to sign Jason Brown or Jake Grove to replace Rabach and draft Oher. Just about every Redskins fan clamored for that. Cerratto/Snyder as personnel people are a complete failure. I hope they both rot in hell for ruining this franchise.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | October 29, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Besides being a boor and a bore you are also a dumb basterd. Petey was acquired from the Bills in a trade, not through FA. If you are going to tee off on peeps you should at least get your facts straight.

Yeah, well beside being a jerk-off and a cretin go paint your bald spot dude. Peters wanted out of Buffalo, he had replaced Mike Williams in Buffalo at left tackle. Okay, so Reid did something even worst. He actually traded draft picks and HIGH ONES to put together a good strong offensive line. It reinforces my point even more. Reid is not going to draft a QB that easily. Otherwise he would have spent a 1st to bring in McNabb's replacement. Look at how he is using Vick? I am not the one who claimed that Reid, Mr. WCO, would draft a QB over critically needed OL now am I?

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

The scheme and concepts those defenses featured were the end result of drafting, planning, scouting, and careful talent acquisition.

The best defenses start with a stellar defensive backfield along with a run stuffing defensive line and linebackers. NOT, I repeat NOT with the 'beastly' pass rush. You will see pass rushing specialists who cannot stop the run or are too small to do so riding the bench waiting for situations where they fit. This is Petitbone's "plans" This is "Grilliams" plan. This is what real defenses do. Look at the Saints, who should be the Skins?

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

tell us something we didn't know mayor...

http://www.thehungrygeographer.com/

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | October 29, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"So what are you all going to do on Sunday with no Skins game?"

November in Florida means I'll have grass to cut.

Flowers to plant.

It'll be bright and sunny all day.

I'll sweep the garage and chat up my neighbors.

I'll go out and pick a few tangelos off my tree and read the Sunday paper while eating them.

I'll laugh at the poor folks up North freezing their tails off and buying overpriced heating oil.

A nice bike ride will be in order.

Then, I'll turn to the Sunday Ticket for comfort and watch real football teams pass, pass, and kick---and win.

And eventually, out of frustration, out of jealous rage, I'll set myself on fire and run down the street
screaming, "Vinnnnnnnnnnnnnny!!!!!"

Well, at least it'll be sunny and warm.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

your thoughts...
Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009

You still have that much faith that Snyder will see the light, Bean? I don't. He will never change.

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

My guess at this point is that you will see the hardest worker, the most motivated of the "projects" at Left Tackle before too long: Mike Williams. Jones moves to right tackle. Heyer will probably end up at guard doing the swing-man thang.

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse
=============================================
Heyer is to slow even for a guard. He's late firing off the ball, and he still can't line up, his splits are sometimes too wide and in run blocking they're too narrow. He doesn't get or understand how much leverage is part of his game, and if used correctly could be his best friend.

Buges should resort to the shackles my high school coach used on our linemen. He may pan out as a center, they should try him there.

Posted by: clark202 | October 29, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

"The 2010 draft is supposed to be QB rich, not so with OL. Take a page out of the Andy Reid book of coaching. He's a WCO dude, but he drafted DeSean Jack, who is def not a WCO WR. Why? Because Andy knew that he could adapt his O to fit Jack's unique talent/skill set and Jack was the best WR out there. Coitainly better than DT and FD, who were snatched up by our suckjob GM when Jack was sitting there for the taking.Posted by: MrPink"

Problem with this sort of reasoning is that so many others passed on DeSean as well. He was the 49th pick. Even Andy Reid passed on him for Trevor Laws, another in a succession of DL that Reid has drafted, with mixed results. I think it's reasonable to argue that Reid is about as surprised by Jackson's success as the rest of the league. Like Eddie Royal, he's simply outperformed expectations.

Philly may have gone back to the well this past season to draft Jeremy Maclin, who's coming along more slowly.


Posted by: Samson151 | October 29, 2009 3:29 PM | Report abuse

portispockets

"... in an uncapped year, I could see the talent on the market being deep as some teams will cut quality players to save money...."


Who cuts quality players to save money?

NFL teams are so loaded with caash, they'll re-up their quality players, and dump anyone in a bad deal or not playing up to his last deal.

For the skins, the following players should be cut, and/or released:


F. Smoot-- yes, barnes and tryon are in place

C. Portis-- definitely... all he does is complain and his best days are behind him...

R. Thomas-- doneski
C. Rabach-- yes, edwin williams could start right now...

M. Sellars-- keep

P. Daniels-- retire and now is complaining about playing time when he is hurt and jarmon and orakpo are cruching it..

S. Heyer-- done

C. Rhinehart-- bust

M. Kelly-- keep

R. Cartwright-- keep

L. Betts-- done

C. Samuels-- keep

A. Carter-- maybe

A. Randle El-- definitely cut

A. Baptiste-- cut

W. Montegomery-- cut..


Losing these players--and not gaining some other team's dregs-- is the singular satisfaction redskins fans should hope for out of an 'uncapped year'.

The word is 'turnover'.

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | October 29, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"It'll be bright and sunny all day.

I'll sweep the garage and chat up my neighbors.

I'll go out and pick a few tangelos off my tree and read the Sunday paper while eating them.

I'll laugh at the poor folks up North freezing their tails off and buying overpriced heating oil.

A nice bike ride will be in order"

I hope your flowers die, the paperboy throws the paper in the thorns, your tangello has 1/2 a worm after youve taken a bite, and your bike gets a flat......not bitter at all...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

All this talk of o-line reminded me of the time LaVar destroyed some giants o-lineman on the first play of the game after he came back from injury...don't know why. Anyone have a clip? Can't find on youtube.

Posted by: Moose33 | October 29, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

F Dallas.

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | October 29, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

F lebron james and the rest of the cleveland cavaliers

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

beantown

LOL!!!!

But it will be warm.

It's been about 80-90 degrees all week here in Palm Beach County.

That's why we grow so many good football players.

Pierre Garcon (Lake Worth) looks like the next local kid to grow up before our eyes.

And y'all already know about Santonio Holmes, Vince Wilfork, Fred Taylor, Randy Phillips, Devin Hester, etc.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is undermining the team? Adjust the tin foil hat, 4th...you're picking up interference from KCNA.

Posted by: 4-12 | October 29, 2009 2:20 PM

4-12...You're starting to be like Chris LaRrY. Reread what I said please.

Apology accepted in advance, thanks!

(I was speaking from the Vinnie perspective in order to keep his job, how he would frame the argument)

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 29, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

""The 2010 draft is supposed to be QB rich, not so with OL."

IMO not the case. There are a lot of QBs out there, but most of them look like second or third rounders in other years. And three of the offensive linemen look very promising: Russell Okung of Okla State, Trent Williams of OU, and Brian Bulaga of Iowa.

I'm guessing one of those O-linemen will go Top Ten and the other two later in the first round. With Bradford under scrutiny and Jevan Snead failing to wow scouts, it's possible that no QBs will go in the first six.

Posted by: Samson151 | October 29, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

"It's been about 80-90 degrees all week here in Palm Beach County"

May your neighbor fling his dog feces into your yard...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | October 29, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

who needs heating oil, I will just take the last 10 years of redskin paraphenial (SP?) and burn it,that should last to spring,

Posted by: connskins | October 29, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Jason,

As you have pointed out -- the Redskins did not invest in the O-line during the off-season and are now suffering for it. I would love to see a breakdown of which offensive lineman in the league were drafted last year -- including their draft position. Obviously a starting O-line star may require a high pick -- but what about all of the less heralded offensive lineman that are currently playing well?

Posted by: lyricist1020 | October 29, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I'm with CL on this one. Snyder wants to win, and it's pretty clear to everyone that he can't win with Vinny.

Posted by: League-Source | October 29, 2009 2:10 PM

And you know this because of your personal conversations with Snyder? You are the League 'Source', so should I book it?

Who here has guessed Snyder's move since he started? I doubt any one has, save for Spurrier.

The fact of the matter is no one knows what Snyder will do. He seems like a fellow who will go the OPPOSITE of what everyone is saying.

More than likely, he'll fire Vinny. But I don't see this is an absolute based on history....

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 29, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe,

What do you think about the Redskins drafting Sean Spence (MLB Miami) in the second? I don't catch many Miami games but from what I've seen it looks like dude can play.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

RE: Sean Spence, nevermind he's a sophomore, probably not entering draft this year.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Above all Snyder wants to play with his team. Sally Jenkins and others get this. If winning means he gets zero running Redskins football operations, he's not up for that, sorry.

Posted by: Pepper5 | October 29, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

I think what fans now grasp is that owning the Redskins has always been about Dan Snyder's self-gratification and not about building a strong organization for the future. Although getting to the Super Bowl would be immensely gratifying, the work getting there obviously isn't.

The irony here is that football is the ultimate team sport. The community loves and supports the team because as a representation of its identity. Under Snyder this is exposed as a contradiction. The team is now antithetical to the community and exists solely as an expression of the owner.

Now it is 100% up to the fans now to reassert the natural order of this relationship, by engaging in a multi-year campaign to force Snyder to relinquish the team though an organized boycott of the Redskins business. Not only will the Redskins benefit, but so will the Nats, Caps, and Wizards.

Posted by: Pepper5 | October 29, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Wow - just wow, Pepper - excellent insight

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 29, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"It's been about 80-90 degrees all week here in Palm Beach County"

Oh gee. Moe, Moe, Moe. Around here the temp rarely ever gets above 80, rarely below 50. If the temps do happen to rise an amazing cloud bank from the marine layer comes in to chill things right down. Unlike your waters, ours are teeming with life. Yes, its colder, but there is more life in cold water. And so every type of seal known considers our beaches its home, including the elephant seal, except one, the walrus. The kelp beds often float in teeming with food for massive schools of fish. The fish are in turn hunted by packs of dolphins, seals, and literally thousands of diving pelicans. Yep, can see all of this right out my window Moe. Plus, the "western rock of gibraltar" a short jog out into the ocean on the leeward side. Waves can get pretty robust here aided by the volcanic debris scattered throughout. The "Rock" used to be gigantic volcano now extinct. Lots of great surfing if that is your inclination. Harley and foot-pealing.

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Not only will the Redskins benefit, but so will the Nats,

Forza errrr GO Nats, and Syracuse Chiefs ... :)

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Thx Pepper...That's what I'm saying about Vinny.

Vinny's demise is not sealed one bit. And if it were, the next guy will be just another Vinny....

Book it!

Posted by: 4thFloor | October 29, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Jason will you for God's sake stop excusing Campbell's horrible play on the fact that he has had to go through different systems. I guess the University of Delaware and the Ravens run the same system and The Atlanta Falcons and Boston College run the same systems becuase according to you if Flacco and Ryan were in new systems they would not play well. Open your eyes idiot, Campbell is never going to be a starter after this year. He has been in the league for five years and is still fumbling, stumbling, and looking like a deer caught in the headlights. You mentioned him against Dallas, remember when we driving down the field to score a game winning touchdown or FG and he rolled out and threw an interception in the last two minutes? Bottom line is, look at his record as a starter. Doc Walker said it last night on Redskins Nation. "At some point Jason has got to make plays, he is not doing that." he has not made plays because he can't.

Posted by: rmcpks73 | October 29, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Now it is 100% up to the fans now to reassert the natural order of this relationship, by engaging in a multi-year campaign to force Snyder to relinquish the team though an organized boycott of the Redskins business. Not only will the Redskins benefit, but so will the Nats, Caps, and Wizards.
Posted by: Pepper5
____
One problem with this idea.. If fans are successful enough where the Redskins lose money all Snyder has to do is move the team.. I'm sure if he can't make money in D.C. he'll have no problem moving it to make money in L.A. I'm sure Washington could keep the name Redskins (like the Cleveland kept Browns) but who knows when or if we get a new team again...

Posted by: sovine08 | October 29, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Pepper - I completely agree. I sense that Snyder's ego is so big that it can't fit into Redskin stadium. I give him credit for squeezing every penny he can from the team, but he needs to realize that he doesn't know anything about football and leave that to folks that do. I just don't get why he can't see that! He'd make so much more and get the "love" he so desperately craves.

Posted by: MississippiSkinsFan | October 29, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"I don't catch many Miami games but from what I've seen it looks like dude can play."


Some college programs produce players I'd always take a chance on.

Miami is one of them.

Florida is another.

Georgia, Tennessee, and USC also are on that list.

Cal, Oregon State, Boston College, and 'Bama are in that house as well.

We are selective about Criminoles, Lions, Longhorns, and Sooners.

This year, we're high on Tigers: CJ Spiller/Jacoby Ford.

Either one would be a nice replacement or supplement as a speed guy who serves dual roles.

I have to go now: my neighbor is flinging dog feces into my yard.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Yeah if you can listen to the WaPo podcast, I don't agree with everything she says but Jenkins nailed Dan Snyder -- perfectly.

Posted by: Pepper5 | October 29, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I'm no pyschoanalyst but I swear the love he craves is not ours, it's actually the football players. I think Riggo has commented on this.

Posted by: Pepper5 | October 29, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

I have to go now: my neighbor is flinging dog feces into my yard.

Posted by: MistaMoe | October 29, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Why would Moe need to see seals and Pelicans when he has a view of the rare "flying Fecal matter"? The rarest of all birds.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 29, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

"One problem with this [boycott] idea.. If fans are successful enough where the Redskins lose money all Snyder has to do is move the team.. I'm sure if he can't make money in D.C. he'll have no problem moving it to make money in L.A. I'm sure Washington could keep the name Redskins (like the Cleveland kept Browns) but who knows when or if we get a new team again..."

Posted by: sovine08

You may be right. But I still think that Snyder leaving for LA forcing us to wait for another team is preferable and leads to a better outcome faster as long as we do the boycott with dignity.

Posted by: Pepper5 | October 29, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Oh gee. Moe, Moe, Moe. Around here the temp rarely ever gets above 80, rarely below 50. If the temps do happen to rise an amazing cloud bank from the marine layer comes in to chill things right down. Unlike your waters, ours are teeming with life. Yes, its colder, but there is more life in cold water. And so every type of seal known considers our beaches its home, including the elephant seal, except one, the walrus. The kelp beds often float in teeming with food for massive schools of fish. The fish are in turn hunted by packs of dolphins, seals, and literally thousands of diving pelicans. Yep, can see all of this right out my window Moe. Plus, the "western rock of gibraltar" a short jog out into the ocean on the leeward side. Waves can get pretty robust here aided by the volcanic debris scattered throughout. The "Rock" used to be gigantic volcano now extinct. Lots of great surfing if that is your inclination. Harley and foot-pealing.

Posted by: periculum | October 29, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Periculum is really just sitting on a couch in his mom's basement watching Planet Earth.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

People blame Campbell for holding the ball too long, being "slow" with his release, decision making, etc. But considering the fact that 1. He has a practice-squad O-line to protect him against aggressive NFL caliber defenses and 2. The trust factor he must have for his receivers— aside from Cooley and Moss— has to be pretty limited (Tom Brady can throw to a spot and be 100% confident his receiver is going to be where he needs to be), I don't know that it is fair to blame him to the extent that people have. If you think about it, for what he has to work with, his QB rating is not terrible. He is definitely more of a Gibbs QB than a West Coast one (his focus on not throwing the pick is an indicator of that), but he is by no means a Jamarcus Russell.

Posted by: cgaquitaine | October 29, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

yes, but did anyone think before or after that one season that Rypien was a great QB?
Posted by: pabrian2003
_____
You tell me... "Rypien in his first full year as a starter threw for 3,768 yards with 22 touchdowns. He also gained his first Pro Bowl berth, albeit as an injury replacement. Rypien was best known for his accuracy as a deep passer, developing an incredible sense of timing with receivers downfield. According to former head coach Joe Gibbs, "Rypien's sideline throws would wobble and didn't look all that pretty. But that man could seriously throw the deep stuff." A 1992 Sport Magazine article touted him as one of the best deep passers ever." Now his numbers dropped the season after the Super Bowl but Skins still made the playoffs.. the year after he got hurt. So was Rypien a great QB?? well he won't be voted in the Hall of fame.. but he was a solid QB for the Redskins who in 1991 had one of the best seasons any Redskin QB ever had... "Rypien threw for 3,564 yards and 28 touchdowns with 11 interceptions, leading the Redskins to Super Bowl XXVI after recording a 14-2 regular season record. He was named the MVP (Most Valuable Player) of the game, passing for 292 yards and 2 touchdowns leading his team to a 37-24 win over the Buffalo Bills. Rypien was named to the Pro Bowl in both 1989 and 1991."

Posted by: sovine08 | October 29, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Periculum is really just sitting on a couch in his mom's basement watching Planet Earth.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Maybe he needs to see the episode on Coral Reefs, then he would realize that there is a large amount of life that inhabits those areas as well. They account for around 1% of the Ocean, but hold 25% of all marine life, and looking at Coral Reef locations, there appears to be a good amount of reef areas surrounding Florida.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 29, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Periculum is lucky though that he doesnt have to get on a boat to see it. That is the ultimate plus.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | October 29, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

You may be right. But I still think that Snyder leaving for LA forcing us to wait for another team is preferable and leads to a better outcome faster as long as we do the boycott with dignity.
Posted by: Pepper5
_____
Not sure about that.. I mean how long was it between when the Senators moved to Texas to when Washington got the Nationals??

Posted by: sovine08 | October 29, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

We all know you love you some Jason Campbell MattyLight...

you just cant let go

Posted by: BenchCampbell | October 29, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure if he can't make money in D.C. he'll have no problem moving it to make money in L.A.

Posted by: sovine08

B. S. Every team that tried to make money in LA lost money and moved out. If Snyder were stupid enough to follow them to LA, there would be six other teams that would try to move to DC. This is where the money comes from.

Posted by: League-Source | October 29, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

vinny didn't even pronounce Randy Thomas's name correctly in his short presser -- referring to him as Randy Thomason --- what an idiot, vinny that is!

Posted by: bestmick1 | October 29, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure if he can't make money in D.C. he'll have no problem moving it to make money in L.A.

Posted by: sovine08

Doubt it. Danny would have to put up close to 1 billion in his own $ to get a stadium built there.

That is a lot of risk to take to move a franchise where you already make a lot of money.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | October 29, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

it was over 30 years before Washington got a baseball team

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 29, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

@ Sovine

Those we're different times and a MLB is a different animal.

It's hard for me to imagine the NFL ignoring a top five media market with the second-largest professional football stadium being denied a franchise for long -- but I suppose one should never underestimate owners solidarity. Still I think in the end $$ trumps all, and my guess to boot is that a lot of them detest Snyder too.

Posted by: Pepper5 | October 29, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure if he can't make money in D.C. he'll have no problem moving it to make money in L.A.

Posted by: sovine08

By the way, it's not like the people in LA want to spend their money to see a team with a 2-14 record run by an arrogant pr1ck who sues the season ticket holders, won't hire professional management, and fights with everyone who doesn't give him his way.

Posted by: League-Source | October 29, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

it was over 30 years before Washington got a baseball team

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | October 29, 2009 4:59 PM

30 years and counting. They still haven't fielded one. Stadium, yes. Baseball team, no.

Posted by: League-Source | October 29, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

snyder not moving team to la, and if that doomsday scenario comes, it means its gotten so bad that divorce is needed....but again aint happenin'

sovine great defense of rypien...f rypien haters.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 29, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

sovine08, you left out some comments about Rypien in your quotes from 1992. Here are some earlier comments:

Steve Butchcock (Redskins Journal): " Mark [Rypien] does have a tendency to fumble when sacked. He will throw a bad interception when there's no reason to throw the ball. And he hasn't taken the team to the playoffs."

Petersons Preview '90: "Fumbling quarterback Mark Rypien reminded no one of Sonny Jurgensen..."

These comments were made in 1990, when Mark Rypien was 28 years old, in his 4th season under a HOF coach with the Skins and throwing to HOF WR Art Monk, along with Gary Clark, and Ricky Sanders.

Posted by: Alan4 | October 29, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

snyder not moving team to la, and if that doomsday scenario comes, it means its gotten so bad that divorce is needed....but again aint happenin'

sovine great defense of rypien...f rypien haters.

Posted by: chrislarry | October 29, 2009 5:13 PM

Can we just refer to it as "the nuclear option?"

Posted by: Pepper5 | October 29, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

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