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Cool Brees makes winning look easy

Obviously, many Redskins fans are frustrated with Coach Jim Zorn because of the Redskins' 5-14 record in their last 19 games under him.

Zorn's credentials as a quarterbacks coach, however, are without question. Zorn helped Matt Hasselbeck become a Pro Bowler when he was the Seattle Seahawks' quarterbacks coach and Jason Campbell has seemed to make strides recently while playing behind a patchwork offensive line, albeit for a 3-8 team.

Zorn has studied a lot of tape of New Orleans Saints quarterback Drew Brees, obviously, andis highly impressed with the nine-year veteran. "Rhythm, accuracy, ball speed, confidence," Zorn said of Brees's strengths. "Just being able to buy an extra little second to avoid the rush and get the ball out, he's been great that way."

Brees has led the Saints to a 11 wins this season and the team is threatening a few of the offensive records set by the New England Patriots two seasons ago. He leads the NFL with a 112.6 passer rating (the Minnesota Vikings' Brett Favre is second at 112.1). He also leads the league with 27 touchdown passes and has thrown for 3,117 yards while completing 68.8 percent of his passes. In the Saints' 38-17 victory over the Patriots on Monday might, Brees threw for 371 yards and five touchdowns.

"I think there's some really good quarterbacks in the NFL," Zorn said. "He's in the top three or four this year, no question."

Burgundy and gold report

Rouhier rewind

Lifelong Redskins fan, professional comedian and St. Albanian Danny Rouhier looks at the Redskins' inner sanctum this week.

The view from N'Awlins

The Saints have been winning by, you knew you were going to read this, taking the season one game at a time, Mike Triplett writes in the Times-Picayune. ... The Saints listed 18 players on their injury report yesterday.

By Jason Reid  |  December 3, 2009; 7:51 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Haynesworth, Mike Williams show improvement
Next: McIntosh: Skins defense knows what it must do

Comments

Guys... GUYS... English only at the tables! I'm sure you're just talkin' about pierogies and snow and sh!t, but lets cut it out.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

rewatched the NO/NE game last night, and the Saints use a ton of ball fakes, fake screens in both directions, skins defenders can't be watching the qb, can't be trying to jump routes...this could be a long day for the home team.....

why can't we do ball fakey things??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Guys... GUYS... English only at the tables! I'm sure you're just talkin' about pierogies and snow and sh!t, but lets cut it out.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

If we go w/ Okung in first round, who do we go after in 2nd round?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

why can't we do ball fakey things??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Because we get sacked on 3 step drops and 3 man rushes. We don't have time to do the cool fakey thingys. We're lucky to get the actual throw off.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

pa, they've gotta start running out of the shot all game, its just the only way they'll give JC any amount of time...

the good news is that the 3 saints rb's are somewhat dinged, Bush, Bell, and Thomas...now if blache is smart, and sees that Thomas has a bad wrist, he's got these guys hackin/pullin at the ball trying to exacerbat that injury/cause a fumble....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

eff these polls

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 3, 2009 8:32 AM | Report abuse

why can't we do ball fakey things??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1


The 12 year old in me really wants to "go there".

If Zorn ranks Brees in "the top three or four" (who ranks people in the top four?), then I wonder where he ranks Campbell.

In the top twenty-four?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 3, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

If we go w/ Okung in first round, who do we go after in 2nd round?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

either Colt McCoy or Toby Gerhart

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 3, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

eff these polls

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 3, 2009 8:32 AM

Polls are the second best thing on this site. Best thing, of course, is your fresh, insightful analysis. I live for the polls and for your comments.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

The Saints listed 18 players on their injury report yesterday.


By Jason Reid | December 3, 2009; 7:51 AM ET

Even if all 18 are inactive Sunday, Saints still win by a FG in overtime. That's just how it is.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

either Colt McCoy or Toby Gerhart

Posted by: jonthefisherman

Ugh.. another Cult of Colt?

Colts gonna be around at pick #40?

I don't think you take a franchise QB unless youre SURE hes the franchise QB.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

ol, in the first, and ol in the second, thinking that the guys we have now are sufficient is what got them into the trouble they're in currently. Keep LJones, and either move him to RT, or he becomes depth. Keep heyer, as depth. Keep BMW/Rhino as depth at G. Still need LT/RT.....no deviating, everything starts up front...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

either Colt McCoy or Toby Gerhart

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 3, 2009 8:35 AM

After what I read about Colt McCoy last night, there is such a difference of opinion on him at this point, that the bust red flags are going off. I'm thinking he's about of a 3rd or early 4th grade.

Posted by: TWISI | December 3, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

If we go w/ Okung in first round, who do we go after in 2nd round?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

either Colt McCoy or Toby Gerhart

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 3, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

If this is assuming we don't trade back any picks or anything I go best available RB or OL in second round.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 3, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Colts gonna be around at pick #40?

I don't think you take a franchise QB unless youre SURE hes the franchise QB.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

i would say that logic holds true when you are talking about a 1st round pick.
but your risk is much lower in the 2nd round (however i will concede that the success rate of qbs drafted in the second round are much lower than that of 1st round qbs)

After what I read about Colt McCoy last night, there is such a difference of opinion on him at this point, that the bust red flags are going off. I'm thinking he's about of a 3rd or early 4th grade.

Posted by: TWISI | December 3, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

as far as McCoy i'm going by what i heard from mel kiper jr.

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 3, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

yeah of course the risk increases quite a bit if we trade back up into the first round to get said qb

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 3, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

If we go w/ Okung in first round, who do we go after in 2nd round?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

I'd take another tackle. Levi Jones is ok but he has had some injuries and I think we need to get younger at that position. In order of greatest need I'd say:

Tackle

Trent Williams
Anthony Davis
Ciron Black

Running back

Dwyer
Gerhart
Royster

guards

Mike Iupati
Mike johnson

centers

Kristofer O'Dowd
Stefen Wizniewski

linebacker

if Sean Weatherspoon drops to us I think we should take him.

Quarterbacks

If Bradford, Locker, or Claussen falls to the second then I think we should grab one of them.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

my only problem with drafting a rookie QB early is that there is no rational coach that would start a rookie until he felt the other 10 guys in his starting offense were capable enough to not let the kid get destroyed.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 3, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

pa, is Iupati a bigger cat..like in the 330 ranger..cuz thats what we need on the interior...bigger is better, can't cut it any other way...I'm ok if they draft a G in the 2nd...if they bring in a top level RT in free agency, then I could be convinced to go somewhere else, LB, or RB...but the OL has to be addressed....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

After what I read about Colt McCoy last night, there is such a difference of opinion on him at this point, that the bust red flags are going off. I'm thinking he's about of a 3rd or early 4th grade.

Posted by: TWISI | December 3, 2009 8:42 AM

Agreed. Colt is not the Real McCoy. (We'll hear this a lot, if we haven't already.)

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

The subtext of the poll question is whether we think the Saints will ease up when they realize our O can't score... I say they'll relent when they get up around 30 points, but that's the Saints' O. The Saints' D will probably continue to bring it all game... Not gonna be pretty, is what I'm saying here.

Let me issue a preemptive "ugh"... of course, having lost two winnable games against NFC East teams that might have kinda sorta meant something, at least to us as fans, I could also see the Skins bolting awake and winning this stupid meaningless game... what a buncha jerks...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 3, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

pa, is Iupati a bigger cat..like in the 330 ranger..cuz thats what we need on the interior...bigger is better, can't cut it any other way...I'm ok if they draft a G in the 2nd...if they bring in a top level RT in free agency, then I could be convinced to go somewhere else, LB, or RB...but the OL has to be addressed....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to let BMW, Dock, and Edwin Williams start these last 5 games and see what we got. I'd pay really close attention to how BMW handles Sederick Ellis this weekend. If he does a good job then he could be the solution at right guard. Edwin could be the solution at center and I think Dock is the solution at left guard. There are some good guards that should be available in the 4th and 5th too.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

We also need to replace Rabach in the next year or two, but I don't know if this is the year for centers.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg1

If you like big guys on the interior line you should check out John Jerry from Mississippi. The guy is a beast.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65526&draftyear=2010&genpos=OG

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

yup, pa, nothing to lose there, but lots to be gained...the injuries to Jarmon, and Rhino are just so frustrating...younger guys who were in line for a lot of playing time.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

pa, can't access the link, but bigger guys beat smaller guys, thats just the way it is...if he's a big cat, and has skills then I want him on the OL.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Guys,
I am done with BMW. The words "unrealized potential" and "injury prone" swarm around this guy's head like flies over last night's barbecue. The team is better off cutting him loose and focusing on getting someone who can play sixteen games. Say what you will about Dockery and Rabach, but they are there every week. Even Heyer, despite showing a propensity for getting injured, will strap it on when he's injured. BMW gets a chipped nail in the locker room and suddenly he's out for two weeks. No thanks.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 3, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

rsh, I hear you, but I wanna give this cat another year, he lost the weight this year, now lets build up his strength, and see what he can do...have him, dock, and Heyer spend the offseason training with Phil Daniels, and lets see what he can do...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

"Zorn's credentials as a quarterbacks coach, however, are without question." - Jason Reid
-----------------------------------------
Why are Zorn's credentials without question? His name is only associated with one decent quarterback. As I recall from statistics 101, a sample size of one doesn't demonstrate anything other than one time you got it right. It doesn't demonstrate a trend or give you the backing to say "without question". I'll say this, Jason Campbell looks better over the last few weeks but this has more to do with tailoring the scheme to the QB's strengths than any change on Campbell's part. I'd argue that at the beginning of this year Campbell had regressed. Zorn's monkeying with his mechanics made him a less accurate QB. Did anyone think Brennan regressed some this preseason? I did. So, the RedSkinHead perspective is Jim Zorn's QB credentials are with question - along with the play of the QB's he has coached.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 3, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

"...why can't we do ball fakey things??"


Because they have great interior blocking at the guard and center positions--no push.

Because they have multiple speed guys to fear on the edges and out of the backfield.

Because they have a quarterback who is maturing as his line gells and playmakers gain confidence.

Now, they have a defensive coordinator whose scheme gets short fields and turnovers which multiply the opportunities the saints' offense has with the ball.

Sounds easy, don't it?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 3, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

I am done with BMW. The words "unrealized potential" and "injury prone" swarm around this guy's head like flies over last night's barbecue.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 3, 2009 9:24 AM

More of that shoot-first-ask-questions-later logic that this blog brings out in people.

You don't leave last night's BBQ out for the flies. That's a waste. You put it in the fridge and feast on it later.

BMW is a project. We knew he was a project. Projects take time. He's cheap and he has a lot of upside. He stays with the team at least through training camp next fall.

Kelly and Thomas were "injury prone" last year. This year?

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Guys,
I am done with BMW. The words "unrealized potential" and "injury prone" swarm around this guy's head like flies over last night's barbecue. The team is better off cutting him loose and focusing on getting someone who can play sixteen games. Say what you will about Dockery and Rabach, but they are there every week. Even Heyer, despite showing a propensity for getting injured, will strap it on when he's injured. BMW gets a chipped nail in the locker room and suddenly he's out for two weeks. No thanks.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 3, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse


I don't understand why anyone thought there would be a correlation between "losing weight" and "being able to play in the NFL".

BMW was considered a bust back when he was young and supposedly entering the peak of his playing ability after getting drafted by the Bills.

What was the internal dialogue in Vinny's mind??

"Let's see. Mike Williams wasn't any good when he was young, healthy and fresh out of college...but hey! Maybe sitting around on a couch for years and getting fat has changed all that!"

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"...why can't we do ball fakey things??"

Because we got rid of Al Saunders.

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

League-Source,
Admittedly, leaving decent barbecue on the table is a major breech in etiquette, but what can I say? The beer gets flowing, the hour gets late, and then you are waking up the next morning with the dog licking the barbecue sauce from your face. It happens.

As for Mike Williams, he had a rep as injury prone before he got here. This isn't some kid fresh out of college. He has a history and there have been a number of teams that have passed on him over the years due to his deficiencies. Williams is 29 and will be thirty in January. That's a little long in the tooth for a project. I like what I see in guys like Edwin Williams - that's a project that's coming along nicely. I'd rather see the team concentrate their energies on guys like that rather than on yesterday's barbecue.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 3, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

What was the internal dialogue in Vinny's mind??

"Let's see. Mike Williams wasn't any good when he was young, healthy and fresh out of college...but hey! Maybe sitting around on a couch for years and getting fat has changed all that!"

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 9:40 AM

Probably more like: "Man had a ton of talent and a bad attitude. Attitude's changed, let's see if he's still got the talent."

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

I like what I see in guys like Edwin Williams - that's a project that's coming along nicely. I'd rather see the team concentrate their energies on guys like that rather than on yesterday's barbecue.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 3, 2009 9:50 AM |

My own view is that it isn't "either/or" at this point, but that it can be both. At the end of training camp next year we can make choices. But we don't need to make them yet, lying here with the dog licking our faces. Ugh.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 3, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

I'd rather see both. Edwin is a center. Let him play instead of rabach and put BMW at right guard. BMW is a powerful run blocker. I'd love to have him on the field. He isn't very mobile though. That's been his biggest issue and that's what is causing his ankle injuries. He may be a very very good guard if he can block those short stout d tackles. He won't be getting injured as much because he won't be moving as much.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Probably more like: "Man had a ton of talent and a bad attitude. Attitude's changed, let's see if he's still got the talent."

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse


Right.

Mike Williams is the Terrell Owens of OTs.

Seriously, the problem in Buffalo wasn't "attitude". The problem in Buffalo was that the dude could not play OT in the NFL.

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

to me, the BMW project was at least a 2 year deal...first year was all about losing the weight, 2nd year will be about seeing if he can blow open running lanes...

low risk, high reward...he's low money, to boot...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I'm fine keeping BMW around for another year, as long as the FO doesn't bank on him being the guy. If we do, we're setup to fail at that position again. This the NFL -- and we have to create quality depth / competition at each position. If he can cut it, great. If not, there's the door.

Posted by: mattylight | December 3, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Hey, I am not saying that BMW doesn't have potential. I'm not blind. I'm just saying that the best offensive lines have something in common called continuity. If you can keep the line healthy all season long then the group will be better than the sum of the parts. I just don't think a team should be shy about acknowledging the fact that staying healthy is as much a prerequisite for making the roster as having quick feet or being able to bench press 220 thirty times. Durability is especially desirable for an offensive lineman. The team needs guys who can play a season together, develop rapport and build on each other's skills. Offensive line is one of those positions where players aren't just "plug-n-play".

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 3, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I'm fine keeping BMW around for another year, as long as the FO doesn't bank on him being the guy.

Posted by: mattylight | December 3, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse


Well that's the issue.

On at least one occassion, when Vinny was asked this year about addressing the Oline, he mentioned bringing in BMW...really?! Are you serious?! That's his idea of "addressing" the Oline?

There is no earthly reason to expect that BMW could become anything more than a plug-n-play backup at guard.

But much like the Heyer situation, this organization seems to think BMW could somehow be fashioned into a stalwart starter in the league.

Lose some weight. Get a little coaching from Buges. And voila! The next Steve Hutchinson!

...if only...

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

On at least one occassion, when Vinny was asked this year about addressing the Oline, he mentioned bringing in BMW...really?! Are you serious?! That's his idea of "addressing" the Oline?

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:15 AM

Now there you go, again, p1 with your funking around with the facts. Vinny also brought in Derrick Dockery who's been pretty solid at LG. Personally, I agree that's not enough, but it's more than you're willing to credit him with.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

But injuries happen all the time. You can't try to select based on injury history, particularly; even a mangled knee isn't the death sentence it was 10 years ago (See Mac, Rocky).
BMW didn't play like a top-ten pick in Buffalo. That's the contract he had to live up to. Same with Dockery; huge contract=unacceptable performance. Dock has a pretty big contract still, and his performance has been nothing special (but just showing up for 16 weeks might make him the oline MVP!)
BMW has a league-minimum deal, he can be the 2nd string G/T and still be money in the bank.
Levi Jones is the question mark for me... he's gonna want to get paid, and I have no problem paying something for his performance so far, but he's not the LT of the future and if he wants to get paid like that then we're going to have some thinking to do. I could see paying him like a solid RT, which isn't bad money considering his 2009 experience.

Posted by: daggar | December 3, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

On at least one occassion, when Vinny was asked this year about addressing the Oline, he mentioned bringing in BMW...really?! Are you serious?! That's his idea of "addressing" the Oline?

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:15 AM

Now there you go, again, p1 with your funking around with the facts. Vinny also brought in Derrick Dockery who's been pretty solid at LG. Personally, I agree that's not enough, but it's more than you're willing to credit him with.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse


The issue we are discussing is not whether Vinny adequately addressed the Oline.

The issue we are discussing is whether BMW has the goods to make it in the NFL. And what the organization expects from him.

But, yeah. Fine. Vinny also brought in Dock.

Now does that fact make BMW starter- material in the NFL?

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

line is saints by 9 1/2. do the skins cover or not?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 3, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Levi Jones is the question mark for me... he's gonna want to get paid, and I have no problem paying something for his performance so far, but he's not the LT of the future and if he wants to get paid like that then we're going to have some thinking to do. I could see paying him like a solid RT, which isn't bad money considering his 2009 experience.

Posted by: daggar | December 3, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse


Even a decent LT is a premium in the NFL.

Levi Jones has played pretty good under the circumstances - getting signed off the street and starting a week later.

Especially when you consider that chemistry is a major factor in good Oline play, the dude has had minimal time to develop it with his teammates.

He'd definitely not a LT of the future, but I think you keep the guy, and draft your LT of the future.

Let Levi start next season at LT, and start our draft-pick (assuming he's up to snuff) at RT. As the young-buck develops, you can flip-flop them.

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

skins cover, and for the third week in a row, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, 20-17 saints....McKenzie has a pick 6 for the saints, and Kelly/Rock score for the skins....

overbook it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Let Levi start next season at LT, and start our draft-pick (assuming he's up to snuff) at RT. As the young-buck develops, you can flip-flop them.


Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

That's what I want but I also want the right tackle of the future taken in the second round. I think Levi will get hurt next year so our young buck will have to flip flop much earlier than expected. It would be nice to have another young buck ready to step in at right tackle.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

The issue we are discussing is not whether Vinny adequately addressed the Oline.

...

But, yeah. Fine. Vinny also brought in Dock.

...

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:23 AM

It was you I quoted attacking Vinny, right?

This is what is known on RI as "the Brownwood dodge." Goes like this: "Okay, I was wrong. But you shouldn't have brought that up because it wasn't what I was talking about." Nice.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

I think Levi will get hurt next year so...

F that, can you tell me where the stock market will be next fall? Sheesh, wasting your precognitive capabilities on offensive linemen is straight tart.

Posted by: daggar | December 3, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

F that, can you tell me where the stock market will be next fall? Sheesh, wasting your precognitive capabilities on offensive linemen is straight tart.

Posted by: daggar | December 3, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

I can tell where GMs stock is going to be next year but that doesn't make me an expert. It just makes me not brain dead. The guy has a history of injury, is over 30, and is playing in the NFC East. I guess you could call it a hunch. Maybe guys like Vinny don't see this coming but the rest of us do.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

daggar,
Surely you can admit that some players are more prone to injury than others. BMW is one of those guys. To me, a guy can blow an ACL, come back and play like a demon. That's an isolated incident and shouldn't earn the player the label of "injury prone". There are, however, those players that seem to routinely only make about fifty to seventy percent of the snaps. Remember, with the offensive line it is about being able to practice as well, so this Portis-I-can't-practice-but-I'll-defintely-play-in-the-game stuff just doesn't cut it with the o-linemen. BMW was hurt in training camp and missed substantial practice time. He's missed a few weeks here and there - and remember, he didn't start at the beginning of the season, so he hasn't played an entire season and he is still coming up with injuries.

As for Levi Jones, the team should re-sign him for anything less than crazy money. The drop off from left tackle pay to right tackle pay is huge and I cannot see his agent agreeing to that, but they should be able to work out an agreement that puts him in the pay range of the bottom half of left tackles. They should still draft an OT, but this provides insurance. LT's aren't exactly running around free so tying him up early would make a mountain of sense.

One other thing to mention is the injury bug that has taken hold of the Redskins this year. There have been a lot and I can't help but think some of that has to do with a cream puff training camp, lack of physical conditioning in the offseason, etc. The team really needs to evaluate this for cause and correct the problem. There is no way a team should be sidled with this many injuries.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 3, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:23 AM

It was you I quoted attacking Vinny, right?

This is what is known on RI as "the Brownwood dodge." Goes like this: "Okay, I was wrong. But you shouldn't have brought that up because it wasn't what I was talking about." Nice.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse


You quoted me scoffing at the idea that signing BMW was adwquately addressing some position on our Oline - whether it was Vinny, or Danny, or Joe Gibbs or Vince Lombardi from the grave making the decision is irrelevant.

This is what we call a "Red Herring", and it goes something like this: I'm going to make a counterpoint based on something that you said, but my counterpoint is actually off-topic and irrelevant to the core issue that we are discussing.

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

After what I read about Colt McCoy last night, there is such a difference of opinion on him at this point, that the bust red flags are going off. I'm thinking he's about of a 3rd or early 4th grade.

Posted by: TWISI

I'm sure to be excoriated for this, but between these two, I'd rather have Jimmy Claussen than Colt McCoy. The kid from Washington looks real good though to me.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 3, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

More of that shoot-first-ask-questions-later logic that this blog brings out in people.


Posted by: League-Source

That's the best/only logic to have when a burgler is breaking into your home!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 3, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

i dont have a real opinion of McCoy's ability but not a chance in Hades he slides to 3/4t round...

LS/TE is the King of the Red Herring argument....and hit/miss zingers

F the Skins, F RI

Posted by: chrislarry | December 3, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

65, ha, thats right...give em up to the Allmighty....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

This is what we call a "Red Herring", and it goes something like this: I'm going to make a counterpoint based on something that you said, but my counterpoint is actually off-topic and irrelevant to the core issue that we are discussing.

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 10:39 AM

Well, funk me! I thought we were talking about whether that guy BMW could get the job done and now you've introduced "Red Herring" as a, uh, red herring. (I'm always reluctant to type Red up here because RedDMV might take it the wrong way. If you're reading this, I do not mean to imply that DMV = Herring. Exactly the opposite.)

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

"...why can't we do ball fakey things??"

We do, it is called a fumble by Jason Campbell.

Posted by: JohnWWW | December 3, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Anybody see this article from Thom Loverro?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/03/thom-loverro-reuniting-band-isnt-right-tune/

He's basically saying that hiring Grimm would be a bad idea for the Skins and gives basically no reason whatsoever for that position other than he feels it's corny to hire a former player from the glory years.

No mention of Snyder's medling, no mention of the difficulties for ANY head coach here with Vinny picking the players, just that he doesn't like the idea.

Even Mike Wise could do better than that...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 3, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

"Levi Jones is the question mark for me... he's gonna want to get paid...."

He's no question mark for me.

Cut'em loose.

He's like used tires: why pay more for what the bengals have already driven into the ground?

I think Stephon Heyer is a decent left tackle, but not a right tackle.

The team should draft a college left tackle (in round 2), and make him an NFL right tackle.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 3, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

The only draw back, that I could see regarding Grimm, is that if he fails here, it could some-what tarnish his imsage.....I mean, its not like he could be worse than zorn/spurrier right??

he'd bring a much needed toughness to the team, I'll say that...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Surely you can admit that some players are more prone to injury than others. BMW is one of those guys.
I admit that injuries are a huge part of playing in the NFL. I admit that BMW and AH have ankle injuries that have made them lose time. We've all had ankle injuries, and they take a couple of weeks to heal. I cannot imagine what it's like to be 350 lbs. and have a bad ankle, but I'm pretty sure I'd be worried about having slow feet in game-speed situations. But I'm also sure that he's not particularly expensive, and we need 10 decent-quality guys.

As for Levi Jones, the team should re-sign him for anything less than crazy money.
then we're basically in agreement, I'm just trying to draw a line in the sand somewhere. I wasn't aware of a huge gap between bottom LT and top RT salaries.

There is no way a team should be sidled with this many injuries.
Thomas' was an injury you could see coming, with the severe offseason neck surgery and limited training camp activity.
The rest of them, I'm just not seeing how better conditioning cures stenosis, or keeps legs from breaking, or keeps ankles from getting rolled.
The best example of good conditioning on the team is JC. He's been hit awkwardly a lot.

Posted by: daggar | December 3, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Well, funk me! I thought we were talking about whether that guy BMW could get the job done

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse


I thought we were too.

And then you wanted to have a long discussion about whether or not I misrepresented a statement from Vinny Cerrato involving Derrick Dockery.

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

What about Jahri Evans from NO at guard?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I think Stephon Heyer is a decent left tackle, but not a right tackle.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 3, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse


Moe, I'm going to assume that this statement was a typo.

It's all good. We all make mistakes at the keyboard.

Now what did you really want to say about Heyer at LT?

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

What about Jahri Evans from NO at guard?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 3, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

I think towards the end of the season we're going to start seeing a lot of these free agent linemen getting resigned. I doubt Jahri Evans, Marcus McNeill, Alex Barron, or Richie Incognito actually make it to free agency. The more likely candidates are guys that were drafted high but got beat out by lower rounders.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

The only draw back, that I could see regarding Grimm, is that if he fails here, it could some-what tarnish his imsage.....I mean, its not like he could be worse than zorn/spurrier right??

he'd bring a much needed toughness to the team, I'll say that...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 11:08 AM


Exactly right. With the current FO structure, I would give him little chance to turn things around. With even a decent GM I could see him doing for us what Whisenhunt did for Arizona.

It's all moot since I doubt he'd work for Snyder, but a guy can dream.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 3, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I am such a huge Grimm fan i hope he gets a HC job.....with another org. Why risk it in washington....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 3, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

I am such a huge Grimm fan i hope he gets a HC job.....with another org. Why risk it in washington....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 3, 2009 11:32 AM

I would love to see what he could do as an HC. He seems to have been out there for a while, though, with several interviews and no offers.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

please tell Gene Wong to keep his eyes open when he talks -- it's painful to watch him speak

Posted by: bestmick1 | December 3, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

LS, lets not walk down this road again...he turned down bears job b/c he felt he wasn't ready....was going to get Lions job but Steelers were in playoffs to long....

Yes he doesn't seem to be the best interviewer. But he will get his shot....book it.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 3, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Strike quickly -- time to hire Tim Ruskell as GM baby! Kick vinny to the curb now and get this guy in there.

Posted by: beyes | December 3, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I am such a huge Grimm fan i hope he gets a HC job.....with another org. Why risk it in washington....
Posted by: chrislarry | December 3, 2009 11:32 AM
I would love to see what he could do as an HC. He seems to have been out there for a while, though, with several interviews and no offers.
Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 11:35 AM

Maybe he just interviews poorly, or forgets to spit out the chaw or something. Of course it is widely known that on his first day of practice as a coach for the skins he ran over three of his players in his monster truck. That’s a tough one to explain away in an interview…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 3, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

it is widely known that on his first day of practice as a coach for the skins he ran over three of his players in his monster truck. That’s a tough one to explain away in an interview…..


Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 3, 2009 11:50 AM

"We were having salary cap problems and I thought this would be a quick solution."

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I think Stephon Heyer is a decent left tackle, but not a right tackle.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 3, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse


Moe, I'm going to assume that this statement was a typo.

It's all good. We all make mistakes at the keyboard.

Now what did you really want to say about Heyer at LT?

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 11:12 AM

Moe just has Vinny Cerrato syndrome. All he can see is CJ Spiller and has convinced himself that Heyer is a LT and that the Skins can wait til rd 2 to draft an OL. Then that FL QB in the 4th.

Not sure if it's contagious...

Posted by: Skins930 | December 3, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Strike quickly -- time to hire Tim Ruskell as GM baby! Kick vinny to the curb now and get this guy in there.

Posted by: beyes | December 3, 2009 11:47 AM |

Why if he was so great Paul Allen would be bringing him back, he is stepping down before he gets fired at the end of the year.

Also Seattle is not over-run with talent so what makes you think this guy would do anything here.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 3, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Juat sayin....

Arkansas' Mallett getting some NFL love
September, 22, 2009 Sep 2210:04AM ETEmail Print Share By Chris Low
Posted by ESPN.com's Chris Low

Former Vanderbilt safety Corey Chavous, who played in the Pro Bowl during his 11-year NFL career, has identified his early leader as the best pro prospect in the SEC at the quarterback position.

And it’s not Tim Tebow or Jevan Snead.

Chavous, who recently launched his DraftNasty.com Web site for year-round coverage of the NFL draft, thinks Arkansas’ Ryan Mallett has the most NFL potential.

“My friend, ESPN's Shaun King said it on TV, and now I'm starting to believe it,” Chavous said. “Mallett, at 6-foot-7 and 248 pounds, is the top NFL prospect in the SEC at quarterback. He made every throw you want to see a premier quarterback make Saturday night. The Arkansas staff has really concentrated on helping him with his footwork.”

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 3, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I am such a huge Grimm fan i hope he gets a HC job.....with another org. Why risk it in washington....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 3, 2009 11:32 AM


Me too, which is why I'd only want him here if there's a massive shakeup in the FO. I doubt he'd come here under any other circumstance.

The situations I'd watch are Buffalo, Cleveland and Carolina. He should draw at least an interview in those cities if there's a change and he fits with the mold of those organizations. The owner in Carolina has a boner for all things Pittsburgh and I think he'd make a run at Grimm if Cowher doesn't take the gig. The only reason I'd say Cleveland is because I think he'd love to stick it to the Steelers for passing him up 3 years ago.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 3, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Who was the one saying to trade Campbell and Portis for draft picks all through the offseason?

Me!

Who is the Sports Guru now?

Oh yeah... it's still me!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | December 3, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

p1funk

"I'm going to assume that this statement (that Stephon Heyer is a decent LT) was a typo. It's all good. We all make mistakes at the keyboard."

No, I meant what I posted.

Here's why:

"... we're going to start seeing a lot of these free agent linemen getting resigned."

We look down on Stephon Heyer, but the FO believes in him--the guy has started all season and some of last-- and will hand him the left tackle spot should Chris Samuels retire.

Heyer doesn't get the push you want from a right tackle, but I don't recall his play at left tackle being all that bad.

And looking at the way the redskin FO has operated, it's doubtful it'll spend 2 top picks--or any--on offensive linemen.

So, being realistic, I can see Heyer starting at left tackle and a drafted or traded for/FA starting at right guard.

There's what we want and what happens.

And what'll happen next year is that Samuels will retire and Heyer will start and be a decent left tackle playing a new redskin right tackle.

That's no typo.

That's the truth.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 3, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

@Rypien11: Da, M@ther F@cker, Da!

Posted by: VeloStrummer | December 3, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Who was the one saying to trade Campbell and Portis for draft picks all through the offseason?

Me!

Who is the Sports Guru now?

Oh yeah... it's still me!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | December 3, 2009 12:06 PM

No one will challenge you on that. You didn't have a clue then, and you don't have a clue now:

Portis untradable because of his salary.
Campbell untradable because of his production.

You're the only guy who would come up here and brag about not having learned a thing.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

nice, guzu shows up, and ls takes him out behind the woodshed....nicely done, ls....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

No one will challenge you on that. You didn't have a clue then, and you don't have a clue now:

Portis untradable because of his salary.
Campbell untradable because of his production.

You're the only guy who would come up here and brag about not having learned a thing.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Dude you could totally make both those trades work if you threw in Betts for a second rounder.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

And looking at the way the redskin FO has operated, it's doubtful it'll spend 2 top picks--or any--on offensive linemen.

So, being realistic, I can see Heyer starting at left tackle and a drafted or traded for/FA starting at right guard.

There's what we want and what happens.

And what'll happen next year is that Samuels will retire and Heyer will start and be a decent left tackle playing a new redskin right tackle.

That's no typo.

That's the truth.

Posted by: MistaMoe

I will agree that unfortunately, I don't think the Skins FO will use the first 2 picks on the O-line. However, Heyer has been a huge disappointment

Only elite OT excel at pass & run blocking. Good OTs do at least one of those well. Heyer does neither well enough to be a starter. He has no push in the run game at all and is very inconsistant in pass protection.

To say he could start and anchor either OT spot......Don't think so.

Posted by: dcwun | December 3, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

No one will challenge you on that. You didn't have a clue then, and you don't have a clue now:

Portis untradable because of his salary.
Campbell untradable because of his production.

You're the only guy who would come up here and brag about not having learned a thing.

Posted by: League-Source | December 3, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Dude you could totally make both those trades work if you threw in Betts for a second rounder.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 3, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse


Or you could make those trades work if you were dealing with the Redskins.

But we already have those players, so no-go.

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

And what'll happen next year is that Samuels will retire and Heyer will start and be a decent left tackle playing a new redskin right tackle.

That's no typo.

That's the truth.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 3, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse


So in the offseason, the Redskins internally rated Heyer as a capable backup but not a legit starter.

And then he gets handed the RT spot.

After a 12-13 loss season, it is clear that Heyer is not really starting RT material.

And so in 2010, he gets handed the more important tackle spot on the blindside.


Moe, you are more like Vinny than I ever imagined...

Posted by: p1funk | December 3, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

"To say he (Heyer) could start and anchor either OT spot......Don't think so."


Well, the redskin FO has been the gang that's been guilty of that sin.

Thing is, Heyer really hasn't had extended
playing time at left tackle--the position he seems more suited for.

Last year, he subbed for Samuels with P Kendall alongside him, and teams used him to set up and attack Kendall.

Next year, we'll get an extended look at Heyer at left tackle--whether we like it or not.

And you know what? I think he'll hold the spot or give way to someone drafted in '11.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 3, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

I would like to know what set of eyes one uses to view a game when a Stephon Heyer is called "decent" and could be seen as a starter?

Heyer is useless as used toilet paper. They need to find a legit starter and his replacement, even if it is for depth.

He needs to get gone.

They need a LT -- draft one.

They need a RT -- move Levi Jones to RT.

They need a RG -- name Mike Williams as your starter for next season (depending on how he does the last 5 games) but draft a RG next season and plan on starting him by 2011, if not sooner.

After next season, again if not sooner, part ways with Rabach, name Edwin Williams as the starting center.

2011 offensive line:

LT: 2010 draft pick/free agent
LG: Dockery
C: E. Williams
RG: 2010 draft pick/free agent
RT: 2010 draft pick/free agent

Posted by: RedDMV | December 3, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

"Zorn's credentials as a quarterbacks coach, however, are without question." - Jason Reid
-----------------------------------------
Why are Zorn's credentials without question? His name is only associated with one decent quarterback. As I recall from statistics 101, a sample size of one doesn't demonstrate anything other than one time you got it right. It doesn't demonstrate a trend or give you the backing to say "without question". I'll say this, Jason Campbell looks better over the last few weeks but this has more to do with tailoring the scheme to the QB's strengths than any change on Campbell's part. I'd argue that at the beginning of this year Campbell had regressed. Zorn's monkeying with his mechanics made him a less accurate QB. Did anyone think Brennan regressed some this preseason? I did. So, the RedSkinHead perspective is Jim Zorn's QB credentials are with question - along with the play of the QB's he has coached.

Posted by: RedSkinHead |

ABSOLUTELY

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 3, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 3, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

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