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Counting Down to Preseason Opener (Updated)

Although their practices are no longer open to the public, the Redskins continue preparations today to kick off their preseason schedule Thursday against the Baltimore Ravens at M&T Bank Stadium.

Perhaps the biggest question -- it's one on which so much hinges -- is the offensive line, again. Coach Jim Zorn hopes to have the first-team line together for as many reps as possible this week. The unit has been slowed by injuries and ineffectiveness in camp. Line coach Joe Bugel has acknowledged that he's concerned about veteran right guard Randy Thomas, who has experienced knee soreness after offseason surgery.

"Every [preseason] game is important because it helps you get ready for the season," quarterback Jason Campbell said. "We've been in a tough situation with our line because guys are banged up. Hopefully, we can start to get healthy now."

...

Practice has begun with the guys in full pads and temperatures soaring. Bill Oram reports that Carlos Rogers is in pads; Devin Thomas is not. Offensive line update: Chris Samuels and Randy Thomas are in pads. Jeremy Bridges, Rueben Riley and Anthony Alridge are not participating. Mike Williams update: He is on the field in pads and helmet. Paul Tenorio reports that Santana Moss and Devin Thomas are doing stuff at the side of the field. Matt Terl (@redskinsblog) reports: Kedric Golston beat Randy Thomas clean; RT did better against Lorenzo Alexander.

By Jason Reid  |  August 10, 2009; 7:45 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Tryon Puts Rocky Rookie Season Behind Him

Comments

Let me be the first o say lets kick some Raven a@@

Posted by: jumbo5383 | August 10, 2009 7:58 AM | Report abuse

How 'bout that Vince Young last night, huh. I think my 13 yr old son throws a tighter spiral.

Posted by: Predator48 | August 10, 2009 8:01 AM | Report abuse

Who are these Ravens you speak of?

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | August 10, 2009 8:01 AM | Report abuse

I keep hearing people talk about "quality depth" on the O-line. No team has all pro Olineman on the bench. What you hope for is one or two guys that can start for some games until your starter returns. The Steelers Oline was beat up all last year, but it was their DEFENSE that won the championship....turnovers...shorter fields, etc.

I am concerned for the oline as well since campbell holds on the ball for too long, but I think as fans we are ignoring how the FO has addressed the defense. As much as we rip em', you have to think we have a good mixture of talent, youth and experience on defense.

Should we have drafted a lineman or two...yes, but you cannot rebuild a team in one offseason.

Posted by: rickyroge | August 10, 2009 8:00 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: rickyroge | August 10, 2009 8:01 AM | Report abuse

I said he should get more reps at DE so he can get used to the speed of the game and dominate at that spot, playing to his strengths and allowing him to use the instincts and skills he's honed to this point instead of making him have to think a lot and play in what right now is his weakness.

Don't see where that's a contradiction...

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 10, 2009 7:49 AM | Report abuse


You don't? Serious? Chris Samuels says "He doesn't seem like a rookie. He's strong, he's quick and he has the mentality of a five- or six-year vet in the game." That means, contrary to your sky-is-falling hysteria, that as a DE he's "used to the speed of the game and dominate at that spot." Etc.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 8:02 AM | Report abuse

How 'bout that Vince Young last night, huh. I think my 13 yr old son throws a tighter spiral.

Posted by: Predator48 | August 10, 2009 8:01 AM

Don't know about your son, but Patrick Ramsey does for sure.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 8:04 AM | Report abuse

Let me be the first to say 'UGH' on this thred.

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 10, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Vince was what the 3rd overall selection in the draft?? Wow...that's not good...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

You don't? Chris Samuels says "He doesn't seem like a rookie. He's strong, he's quick and he has the mentality of a five- or six-year vet in the game." That means, contrary to your sky-is-falling hysteria, that as a DE he's "used to the speed of the game and dominate at that spot." Etc.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 7:59 AM


I never said he wasn't gonna be any good. But having him split time between LB and DE could drive his sacks down from a potential 12 or so (if he's as good as advertised) to like 5 or 6. They're not gonna blitz him every play because that's obvious. And the opponent isn't gonna run on every 1st and 2nd down. So every snap he's not there with his hand in the dirt, is a lost opportunity for him to make an impact play (in my opinion).

But like I've said before, I hope I'm wrong. I hope he plays like Adalius Thomas did in Baltimore, all over the field being disruptive everywhere he goes. But I've watched the Redskins for over 15 years now and NOTHING seems to go according to plan with this team. Not negative, just being real.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 10, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Vince was what the 3rd overall selection in the draft?? Wow...that's not good...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1


From 3rd pick to 3rd string in 3 years. Dam!

Posted by: Predator48 | August 10, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse

Brownie, I wasn't aware of any PLAN for this team.... lmao!

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 10, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Eagles are just getting beat up, I've said before I hate pre-season injuries..from PKing:

think the Eagles have to be the most different team in the league from where they thought they'd be right now. Middle linebacker Stewart Bradley was lost on the first weekend with an ACL tear, and now rookie tight end Cornelius Ingram -- who'd been burning up camp with his athleticism and hands -- is out for his second straight year with an ACL tear. DeSean Jackson (MCL strain) is hobbling. With Jim Johnson gone too, the Eagles are the team with the toughest last two weeks of any in football.

What round did they take Ingram??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Oh & how 'bout dem NATS!? lmao.

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 10, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Brownie, I wasn't aware of any PLAN for this team.... lmao!

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 10, 2009 8:18 AM

Exactly, Dik. But if you listen to T_E, every move this team makes is pure gold. As if I have no discernible reason whatsoever to doubt a team that's won exactly 2 playoff games since I started following them regularly in 1993. How dare I...

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 10, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

So brownwood26,

So how would you use Andre Carter? You are suggesting that he is weak at stopping the run so that implies he is decent as a pass rusher. So yeah...he may not be the best run-stopper but last year the run game didn't hurt us - it was our lack of pass rush that was the dagger. He can get to the quarterback no doubt if he isn't double teamed... with Haynesworth on the line he will see favorable matchups. I just don't think it is smart to let him sit on the bench... he has had good years before with lower caliber teammates. I expect him to rebound this year.

Jarmon should see his fair share on the line too but nothing too extensive. Atleast not yet... I know there is good word that he is having a surprisingly strong camp but I don't think he is going against a strong Oline haha... If he blows up during the preseason then that would change things considerably...

With the move of Orakpo to all-time DE, who would fill the role of SLB? Don't get me wrong, Blades is a hard-worker but I wouldn't want him on the field every down...The skins have a hole at SLB and Orakpo can fill that void... that's the MAIN reason why he is playing SLB and not DE. The couches aren't stupid... they are probably well aware of his abilities but they are basically trying to fill two positions with one player. While that isn't ideal for Orakpo's development as a pass rusher, he is still going to learn a lot and add to his versatility.

So ultimately you are right.. Orakpo is a thoroughbred pass rushing DE that is being "misused." But if he can play SLB and we need an SLB, we might as well let him have crack at it.

Posted by: Rashad8o4 | August 10, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

pretty audacious indeed. lol.

I have taken 'Redskins Nation' off my DVR. I can't take any more Larry/Vinny smarm.

Every time he reaches for that soundbyte button I'm just hoping one time that it's the button for the sandbag to drop down on his head, a-la Looney Toons.

They actually played a 'Godfather' soundbyte for Cerrato. Sure, they're both italian, but one big difference, fellas - the Godfather actually gets things DONE!

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 10, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Oh & how 'bout dem NATS!? lmao.

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 10, 2009 8:25 AM

Playoffs! When they gonna sign that Strasbourg guy? If it were the Redskins, he would already have had three starts.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

The sky IS falling. Everyone knows the keys to success on the OL are talent and cohesiveness. But these guys lack both. They aren't getting reps together because of nagging injuries, and even the ones that were talented are in steep decline.

Everyone wants to compare this offense to the Steelers or Cardinals, both of whom had weaker lines. But both of those teams had Pro Bowl caliber quarterbacks. We have a below-average line and below-average quarterback.

If this team wants to be the Steelers, the defense needs to score points. If they want to be the Cardinals... well, that doesn't seem possible with this offense.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | August 10, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

What round did they take Ingram??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

5th..The Eagles need to stick to doing jumping jacks and neck rolls in practice. Anything more then that is perilous.

Posted by: ga8085 | August 10, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

I know this is Ingrams second ACL tear, but is it the same knee as the one he did in college??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

After watching the HOF game, I miss the Houston Oilers.

Posted by: alex35332 | August 10, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

It appears the Redskins have a legitimate shot at the NFC East title this year, but let's hope their failure to shore up the OL through the draft over the years doesn't undermine their potential.

Taking three receivers in the second round last year was likely a mistake by Cerrato.

Posted by: clandestinetomcat | August 10, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Everyone wants to compare this offense to the Steelers or Cardinals, both of whom had weaker lines. But both of those teams had Pro Bowl caliber quarterbacks. We have a below-average line and below-average quarterback.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | August 10, 2009 8:44 AM

Don't get me wrong, Campbell is no Pro Bowl caliber QB...But he isn't below average either. As we all know, his numbers were well above average in the begining of the year. By the end of the season, the whole offense tanked and his numbers fell to average...not below average.

The steelers and cardinals have really good receivers - the skins have moss and some pups...

Campbell definitely has to be more aggressive and lay it all on the line this year but talent wise he can hang with the best. It all has to come together...

Wait and see....

HAIL

Posted by: Rashad8o4 | August 10, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

I know this is Ingrams second ACL tear, but is it the same knee as the one he did in college??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Yup, dude can't catch a break.

Posted by: ga8085 | August 10, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Hit refresh. Practice updates.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | August 10, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Rashad8o4,

So how would you use Andre Carter?

--I would use him as a situational pass rusher on 3rd downs and obvious passing situations. He's been mediocre for 2 out of his 3 years here, and if Campbell doesn't get the benefit of the doubt here I don't get why Carter does.

With the move of Orakpo to all-time DE, who would fill the role of SLB?

--I think that's an easier role to fill than people think. They've got some high motor guys like Blades and Wilson who could fill that role in a decent enough manner to get by. At the end of the day, the SLB is a 2 down LB; this team tends to go nickel on 3rd down anyway.

The skins have a hole at SLB and Orakpo can fill that void...

--If it's the SLB spot you wanna fill and not DE, then why not take a LB in Round 1? If this team was more concerned with the SLB spot than DE and think enough of Carter to start him over Orakpo, then they should have taken Michael Oher and fill that gaping hole at RT. At least you're addressing an immediate need and not embarking on a project.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 10, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Wait and see....

HAIL

Posted by: Rashad8o4 | August 10, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse


I'm with him...

SLEET!

Posted by: Original_etrod | August 10, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know where you can find a stat on the frequency our D was using nickel? I feel like they use the nickel more then any other defensive scheme.

Posted by: alex35332 | August 10, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

When did Baltimore Join the NFL? I always thought the Ravens were a CFL team!!!

Ganarrhiamore!!!! haha...

Posted by: BarackObama | August 10, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood26,

If it's the SLB spot you wanna fill and not DE, then why not take a LB in Round 1?

On this point I'd have to agree with Cerrato... You have to take the best talent available. It looks like Orakpo is a solid draft pick and I haven't heard too much ranting and raving about Oher. Granted haha I haven't really researched it but I am extremely happy with Orakpo. If Orakpo is the next Jason Taylor then I don't care if he isn't what we "need." I don't know which SLB's were available but I doubt they are as talented, intelligent, or mature as Orakpo.

Posted by: Rashad8o4 | August 10, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

the ravens won a superbowl with the number defense in the league and a below average offense that went four straight games without a TD. So, all is not lost. However, our O-Line is seriously weak and that will make our offensive rhythym suffer. And do to that, field position and well as points will suffer. We've had 2 years to address our O-line needs in the draft and we have ignored it. It is our achilles heel, unfortunately. 6-10 at best. Zorn's last year. Then another two years or so of rebuilding under Shannahan. HAIL.

Posted by: sjw1 | August 10, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Yup, dude can't catch a break.

Posted by: ga8085 | August 10, 2009 8:58


I think his Knee would beg to differ (I know poor taste, hey its Monday)

Posted by: GreatOne1 | August 10, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I dont know if your guys saw the NFL network on Saturday but I could not stop laughing. Micheal Irvin, Steve Mariucci, were laughing Jason Lacanfora out of the building. JLC was talking about his all time Hall of fame list and they could not stop laughing at how stupid his list was.

I dont like Michael Irving but it was to funny watching him laugh at JLC. It was one of those this guy doesnt know anything about football or sports laughs.

Classic

Posted by: GreatOne1 | August 10, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

GreatOne, who was on J La's list?

Posted by: Original_etrod | August 10, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Anything can happen this year in the NFL!

A punter scored the first TD of 2009.

A great omen has been shown!

Posted by: noone_from_tampa | August 10, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Adam Archuleta was on his list...

Posted by: BarackObama | August 10, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

I didnt catch the list, I turned it on when they were laughing at him and he was defending it saying well thats my list and Im sticking with.

I have been trying to catch the rerun of it but havent been able too. But it was the pre show on Saturday to the hall of fame introduction. If they re-air the hall of fame ceremony they might air it again.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | August 10, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

"What round did they take Ingram??
Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

Five. But the guy's never played a down for them in two seasons, so I don't know how you'd consider it a loss, except on potential alone.

Losing LJ Smith can hurt, though. Celek is a decent TE but Ingram would have significantly improved the receiving. Thing is, the Eagles haven't used the TE that much; like the Giants, they seem to throw more to the running back.

Odd that Baltimore signed LJ -- wonder what that says about Heap.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 10, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

the ravens won a superbowl with the number defense in the league and a below average offense that went four straight games without a TD. So, all is not lost.

Posted by: sjw1 | August 10, 2009 9:18 AM

Bad comparison...the Skins D won't be that good, and as bad as the Ravens were on offense they DID have a good O-line and punishing ground game. The Skins don't have that.

It's funny to me that people point to the Ravens as the team to give fans with crappy offenses hope that their team can pull a fast one and win it all. That was an exception, not the rule. To get your special teams and defense to play as well as Baltimore's did that year is a near impossible proposition and if the Ravens themselves couldn't replicate that kind of success with a mediocre offense, it won't happen for anyone else either.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 10, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

the Skins D won't be that good,

how do you know?

It never ceases to amaze me how guys can claim something such as this, when we've YET to see the Defense play a down. We've yet to see the team play a game, but somehow I must have missed out on the crystal ball give-away.....ufb...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

JaLaCa's list from http://www.nfl.com/halloffame/story?id=09000d5d811c3297&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
The comment section was bitter.
1. Johnny Unitas
2. Jim Brown
3. Jim Thorpe
4. Sammy Baugh
5. Deacon Jones
6. Don Hutson
7. Otto Graham
8. Reggie White
9. Walter Payton
10. Lawrence Taylor
11. Gene Upshaw
12. Dick Butkus
14. Joe Montana
15. Dick "Night Train"
16. "Mean" Joe Greene
17. Marion Motley
18. Forrest Gregg
19. Ronnie Lott
20. Kellen Winslow

Michael Irving is just bitter that he is not everyones top 10

Posted by: alex35332 | August 10, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Original_etrod | August 10, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Heard Mike Greenberg on ESPN describing the sports media as 'professional over-reactors." So I guess that makes us merely gifted amateurs.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 10, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

beantown--Is it correct that the Yankees swept four games from the Sox?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

how do you know?

It never ceases to amaze me how guys can claim something such as this, when we've YET to see the Defense play a down. We've yet to see the team play a game, but somehow I must have missed out on the crystal ball give-away.....ufb...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 9:40 AM

You haven't been following brownwood, have you? The defense can't be this good because they're playing Orakpo as a hybrid instead of a pure DE. Big mistake. Orakpo can't learn a new position.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

(sticking fingers in ears, shutting eye's tightly and shouting)lalalallaalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala....!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

That wasn't a bad list. Not enough Skins on it for my taste, but who can argue with John Unitas, Jim Brown, Sammy Baugh and Deacon Jones?

Posted by: Original_etrod | August 10, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Vince was what the 3rd overall selection in the draft?? Wow...that's not good...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1


From 3rd pick to 3rd string in 3 years. Dam!

Posted by: Predator48 | August 10, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse


What's truly perplexing is that he made the Pro Bowl his rookie season and then the drop-off.

Some guys come out and never acclimate, but how often do you see a high draft pick go from Pro-Bowl to practice squad like that?

Posted by: p1funk | August 10, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

That wasn't a bad list. Not enough Skins on it for my taste, but who can argue with John Unitas, Jim Brown, Sammy Baugh and Deacon Jones?

Posted by: Original_etrod

I agree not a bad list at all. There are only three names that I would replace.

Posted by: jm220 | August 10, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Every time he reaches for that soundbyte button I'm just hoping one time that it's the button for the sandbag to drop down on his head, a-la Looney Toons.

.........

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 10, 2009 8:40 AM

No S, Just Lerrrry Michael...

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 10, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm now officially on the

SIGN VICK BANDWAGON!!

That's right.

The news about the Oline has shifted my perspective - the line has gone from crappy to crappy & injured. When you have a line that can't reliably pass block and breaks down, you need a QB that can improvise and make plays on the run.

Vick doesn't throw to WRs, but so what? It's not like we have many that are very good anyhow. He can throw the occasional bomb to Santana Moss.

He likes to throw to TEs and, apparently, we have a couple really good ones.

It actually makes sense in this mad mad world.

SIGN VICK NOW!!!

Posted by: p1funk | August 10, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

From what I gather people were mad about the lack of Barry Saunders

Posted by: alex35332 | August 10, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I didn't think the list was too bad, but what kind of list was it? Was it top 20 HOFer of all time?

If so, then he left alot of people off, beginning with Fritz Pollard, who should be in the top 5 all time. Go look him up....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 10, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

It never ceases to amaze me how guys can claim something such as this, when we've YET to see the Defense play a down. We've yet to see the team play a game, but somehow I must have missed out on the crystal ball give-away.....ufb...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 9:40 AM

I'm sorry, didn't realize we couldn't make predictions here. Or is it positive predictions only? No crystal balls needed for a semi-educated guess.

We can't all be T_E, who just slurps up whatever piss and Kool-Aid mix that the team serves up to the fanbase. Some of us actually try to view the team in a more realistic vein, and breaks down the team independently instead of thru burgundy and gold glasses.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 10, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Ok, this is 'his' top 20. evidenced by Bmore's own Johnny U leading the #1 spot...

Also, Vince Young will rule this league again. After he gets traded to a NFC team and he gets with the right OC/HC....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 10, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

brown, never said you couldn't make prediction....so not sure where that came from, but whateves....

All I stated was that perhaps waiting to see the defense...actually play a down or so, might have been the more prudent way of gaining a glimpse of their potential....

again, predict til you can't predict no more.....and sign vick.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

If so, then he left alot of people off, beginning with Fritz Pollard, who should be in the top 5 all time. Go look him up....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 10, 2009 10:11 AM


Good stuff, 4th. Coming from JLC, I'm a bit surprised he didn't work Ogden or Ray Lewis on the list.

This might be Redskin bias, but I'd have Sammy Baugh at least in the top 3. Dude was an All-Pro at 3 positions. Few can compare to that. And I'm not sure about putting Unitas over Jim Brown. I wouldn't really care enough about anyone else on the list to debate any more than that.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 10, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

All I stated was that perhaps waiting to see the defense...actually play a down or so, might have been the more prudent way of gaining a glimpse of their potential....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 10, 2009 10:15 AM

I agree with that. I just said that I don't think they're going to be as good as the 2000 Ravens D, that's all. I'd be shocked if they're not in the top 5, I just don't see them being all-time great is all I'm saying.

And I said that in reference to some guy's Ravens-related post on here. So that's the context, wasn't really talking about the Skins chances on D.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 10, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Its a bigg waste of time, making a completely subjective top 20 list. The sad part is the 168 people who cared enough to comment and bash him for it.

Posted by: alex35332 | August 10, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Its a bigg waste of time, making a completely subjective top 20 list. The sad part is the 168 people who cared enough to comment and bash him for it.

Posted by: alex35332 | August 10, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

I think it has been univerally accepted that Jim Brown/Sammy BAugh or #s 1 & 2 since the begining of the NFL, and in no perticular order.

Unitas top 5, maybe...

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 10, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

I know it was only an intrasquad scrimmage Saturday but I was there and from what I saw Campbell has not improved. I see the same indecisiveness, trouble reading the defense, holding onto the ball too long.

This coupled with the shaky status of the oline does not bode well. It's early, I guess we'll see for sure Thursday against the Ravens. Lord help us, we need it.

Orakpo is a beast, yeah he was going against 2nd and 3rd stringers sometimes but the easy way he beat them(tackles) was almost laughable, hell I was laughing.

L.Landry has beefed up, I guess he decided he wasn't going to get trucked by Brandon Jacobs this year.

The Eloi kid made some people miss along the sideline on his TD catch, looked good.

Posted by: 72Redskins | August 10, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

SIGN VICK

Posted by: p1funk | August 10, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | August 10, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

I'd have put Barry Sanders and Mike Singletary on the list but, admittedly, I'm from the new school.

LT and Reggie White would also be higher on my list.

Posted by: Original_etrod | August 10, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

"What's truly perplexing is that [Vince Young] made the Pro Bowl his rookie season and then the drop-off. Some guys come out and never acclimate, but how often do you see a high draft pick go from Pro-Bowl to practice squad like that?Posted by: p1funk"

Not very damn often. But I think the answer is that even when Vince was on top, he still wasn't a very good NFL QB.

He did win a lot of games, which after all is what counts, but here are his numbers from 2006 and 2007:

Completion %: '06-51.5; '07-62.3
Yrds per completion: '06-6.2; '07-6.7
TD passes: '06- 12; '07- 9 TDs
INTs: '06-13; '07-17

His saving grace was his legs. Young was never a Michael Vick, but he rushed for 552 yards and 7 TDs in '06, a 6.7 yard average. In '07 he rushed for only 395 yards at a 4.2 yard clip, with 3 TDs, suggesting that defensive coordinators adjusted to his running.

Like most running QBs, he also dropped the ball a fair amount, something that was bound to annoy a coach like Jeff Fisher.

Tennessee was very open about why they drafted Young in the first place: his vast upside. He got to play right away on a very strong team and for a while it looked like he was on the fast track. But as an NFL prospect he was never in a class with, say, Jay Cutler; he was always going to have to reinvent the position in order to play it. Maybe he'll do that someday. But Tennessee, at least last year, was better without him.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 10, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

BTW, Young's QB rating in '06 was 66.7; in '07 it was 71.1.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 10, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, nobody believes this line will hold up for the whole season?
Unless this team defense turns out to be the 2000 Ravens this season is HOPELESS!

Posted by: SOLVBACK | August 10, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

I believe in the line. And I believe Rinehart will step up if Thomas can't make it...

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 10, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

"Unless this team defense turns out to be the 2000 Ravens this season is HOPELESS!"

------------------------------------------
Yeah, why even bother to tune in this year?

Come back and check in with us in 2010, we'll let you know how it turned out.

Posted by: McMetal | August 10, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I hope we are one of them...

Posted by: p1funk | August 10, 2009 10:33 AM

Funk, haven't you learned anything about the way this team operates? If the Redskins had any interest, at all, in Vick, they would already have signed him and he would have played in last Saturday's scrimmage. If he's not signed yet, he will never be signed.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

I was at training camp on Saturday too. The first string offense was missing Portis, Moss, Kelly, Thomas, Cooley, and Heyer. Campbell was sharp on the first possession, moving the team down to the 2 before the drive stalled.

Second possesion he started throwing those STUPID 3 yard hooks to the WR. I hate those. They should get at least 5 yards, and stop thowing them on the first down of a possession. I am willing to be most of their 3-and-outs last year started with that damned play.

Campbell's interception came when the receiver fell down while making his out cut.

Now, I was watching him and I think he's most comfortable with the 5 step drops right now. The 3 step isn't working very well, I don't know if it's a problem with the slant routes not being timed well or what. But if the Redskins can't throw the slant effectively they are going to have a hard time running a WC offense.

Collins had a nice pass to Yoder on a seam route.

Dorsey had some "nifty" runs on draws and dive plays up the middle. He really does get lost in there. He fumbled once after a 10+ yard gain, but he might be a Sproles-like guy for the Skins

Daniels was running around, including his TD. Since you could not hit the QB I don't think much of that.

Orakpo was clearly held on some plays. He did get turned around when Yoder ran a curl on him, Collins' completing the pass with a low throw.

All in all, defense well ahead of offense, and it looks like Campbell was not reading as well as he did during the passing drills.

Posted by: dpc2003 | August 10, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

The NFL's Overrated, part 1:


Matt Leinhart
Vince Young
Reggie Bush
Eli Manning
Terrel Owens
Tony Romo
Mike Vick
Cadillac Williams
Jeremy Shockey
Kellen Winslow

Posted by: MistaMoe | August 10, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Is the line better with the run like last year?

Posted by: alex35332 | August 10, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

we're screwed. all is lost. we should just lose them all and get a high draft pick next year (and then of course not draft any o-line players because vinny wouldn't want to waste his high draft pick on an actual need). 6-10 this year. then on to a new coach (even though it wasn't truly his fault).

Posted by: sjw1 | August 10, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

J Reid reports:

Listening to Jim Zorn address the media. From what he's saying about guard Randy Thomas (knee), I don't expect Thomas to play Thursday.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | August 10, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

"...Campbell was sharp on the first possession, moving the team down to the 2 before the drive stalled..."

Sounds like the offense is in midseason form.

60 yard, 12-play drive followed by a field goal.

I can't wait.

Posted by: MistaMoe | August 10, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse


brownwood26
"Bad comparison...the Skins D won't be that good, and as bad as the Ravens were on offense they DID have a good O-line and punishing ground game. The Skins don't have that.

It's funny to me that people point to the Ravens as the team to give fans with crappy offenses hope that their team can pull a fast one and win it all. That was an exception, not the rule. To get your special teams and defense to play as well as Baltimore's did that year is a near impossible proposition and if the Ravens themselves couldn't replicate that kind of success with a mediocre offense, it won't happen for anyone else either."

-------------------------------
Strong defenses almost always go far in playoffs re: Steelers (offense was not that good last year), Ravens, Bears (a few years ago).

Redskins have a top 5 D, now with some turnover ability. So if O-line stays relatively healthy and turnovers increase on D, then Redskins D will be on the field less and able to be more potent. And offense will reap the rewards.

I really think that if +/- on turnovers is better then this will translate into shorter field position and more success on offense. Adding D-line/ quality turnover guys is a great move.

Posted by: redskincow | August 10, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

I really think that if +/- on turnovers is better then this will translate into shorter field position and more success on offense. Adding D-line/ quality turnover guys is a great move.


Posted by: redskincow | August 10, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Great - sounds like we'll get a whole bunch more field goals . . . which won't win games!

Posted by: sjw1 | August 10, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

cindy

"....From what he's saying about guard Randy Thomas (knee), I don't expect Thomas to play Thursday...."


Let the Chad Rhinehart Era begin.

I'm already to both promote and condemn his play with the usual array of snarky posts.

Like this one.

Posted by: MistaMoe | August 10, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse


MistaMoe
"...Campbell was sharp on the first possession, moving the team down to the 2 before the drive stalled..."

Sounds like the offense is in midseason form.

60 yard, 12-play drive followed by a field goal.

I can't wait.
-------------------------

MistaMoe,

That is hilarious. Sad but true, the goal line offense not so great.

At least we have a better punter for when we stall at mid-field.

Posted by: redskincow | August 10, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Cult of Chad?

Posted by: Original_etrod | August 10, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Cue the call-Pete-Kendall hysteria! Let's get him in and wear him down with pre-season practice.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

I really think that if +/- on turnovers is better then this will translate into shorter field position and more success on offense. Adding D-line/ quality turnover guys is a great move.


Posted by: redskincow | August 10, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Great - sounds like we'll get a whole bunch more field goals . . . which won't win games!
sjw1
--------------------

More FGs are OK... most of our games very quite close. This scenario would mean 3+ more points and 1+ less possession for other offense.

Posted by: redskincow | August 10, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

going up

third floor, DB's -- Tryon on special

Oh, and brownwood, you can stay right here and stew in your own venom.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

I agree that Barry Sanders should be on that list. Also, Eric Dickerson.

Posted by: dcsween | August 10, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

redskincow,

Strong defenses almost always go far in playoffs re: Steelers (offense was not that good last year), Ravens, Bears (a few years ago).

--Still can't compare the Skins to teams like that. Even though the Steelers lacked a quality O-line, they have a QB that can basically win games by himself and an elite kicker. Plus they got timely TD returns from their special teams, particularly in the playoffs. The Skins don't have any of those things (unless they put DHall or Moss back there full-time).

Redskins have a top 5 D, now with some turnover ability. So if O-line stays relatively healthy and turnovers increase on D, then Redskins D will be on the field less and able to be more potent. And offense will reap the rewards.

--I'm not so sure about that. It looks like it'll work out that way on paper, but I have to see it to believe it. I'm still not sold that we're getting the 2008 Albert Haynesworth and even if we are, I think the way they play defense here lends itself to playing it safe---fewer takeaways, but fewer breakdowns.

I really think that if +/- on turnovers is better then this will translate into shorter field position and more success on offense. Adding D-line/ quality turnover guys is a great move.


--We'll see. I have a hard time seeing this offense turning all those alleged turnovers into touchdowns. I'd like to see an improvement in the field goal kicker before I get excited about a short field.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 10, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

hope we are one of them...

Posted by: p1funk | August 10, 2009 10:33 AM

Funk, haven't you learned anything about the way this team operates? If the Redskins had any interest, at all, in Vick, they would already have signed him and he would have played in last Saturday's scrimmage. If he's not signed yet, he will never be signed.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 10, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse


I understand that is the standard operating procedure of this team. But I think in this situation Snerrato knows they can't use the same tac -

1) Their open pursuit of Culter and then Sanchez, and their subsequent "patching things up" with Campbell, means they have a very short leash to operate with regarding the pursuit of another QB. They need to be suave, down-low, behind-the-scenes and patient.

2) The general PR circus surrounding Vick is something they need to gauge carefully vis-a-vis fans, corporate sponsors, etc.

If they "keep interest" on the down-low and let the preseason play out, and it becomes increasingly obvious to everyone that the line sucks and JC looks terrible, it will give them the excuse they need to "bolster" that position. Especially if one of the QBs gets injured - which looks more and more likely as time goes on with this line.

Posted by: p1funk | August 10, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Tennessee was very open about why they drafted Young in the first place: his vast upside. He got to play right away on a very strong team and for a while it looked like he was on the fast track. But as an NFL prospect he was never in a class with, say, Jay Cutler; he was always going to have to reinvent the position in order to play it. Maybe he'll do that someday. But Tennessee, at least last year, was better without him.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 10, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse


I thought it was silly that VY got to the ProBowl that year, but he did.

Statistically he wasn't great or very good, but he did win games for them, he was confident, decisive, passionate; he really did rally that team. That's part of what makes the drop-off alarming b/c it seems like the key thing is that he lost his head/passion for the game.

Posted by: p1funk | August 10, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Are Haynesworth and Jarmon going to play on the offensive line? 8 and 8 is optimistic. Millions for Defense and nothing for offense. You reap what you sew. I am a Redskin fan but I am also a realist. Once again, this team will never be a contender as long as Snyder owns it.

Posted by: chopin224 | August 10, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Beep with 21 posts on the next thread

Posted by: alex35332 | August 10, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

brownwood26
Strong defenses almost always go far in playoffs re: Steelers (offense was not that good last year), Ravens, Bears (a few years ago).

--Still can't compare the Skins to teams like that. Even though the Steelers lacked a quality O-line, they have a QB that can basically win games by himself and an elite kicker. Plus they got timely TD returns from their special teams, particularly in the playoffs. The Skins don't have any of those things (unless they put DHall or Moss back there full-time).

Redskins have a top 5 D, now with some turnover ability. So if O-line stays relatively healthy and turnovers increase on D, then Redskins D will be on the field less and able to be more potent. And offense will reap the rewards.

--I'm not so sure about that. It looks like it'll work out that way on paper, but I have to see it to believe it. I'm still not sold that we're getting the 2008 Albert Haynesworth and even if we are, I think the way they play defense here lends itself to playing it safe---fewer takeaways, but fewer breakdowns.

I really think that if +/- on turnovers is better then this will translate into shorter field position and more success on offense. Adding D-line/ quality turnover guys is a great move.


--We'll see. I have a hard time seeing this offense turning all those alleged turnovers into touchdowns. I'd like to see an improvement in the field goal kicker before I get excited about a short field.

---------------------------
Thanks. Enjoy the dialogue.

I agree that we'll see about turnover increase. I happen to think that we'll have to improve - turnover numbers on D were terrible last year. Turnover numbers are likely to improve on offense too, as Campbell et al have another year in Zorn offense. Haynesworth, even if not 2008 quality, will still eat up blockers and give more opportunities for folks like Andre Carter, Orakpo, Landry...

Also agree that Skins are not that high caliber compared that those defenses. But Skins defense is among best in NFL currently, and offense is more likely to be middle of the road. This team will be closer in quality to that 10-6 team in Gibbs' first year (but hopefully with more passing).

Posted by: redskincow | August 10, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

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