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Daniels Sits After Having Knee Drained

It figured that defensive end Phillip Daniels would miss some time in training camp because of a knee problem after sitting out the 2008 season.

Daniels, who underwent reconstructive surgery after suffering a season-ending left knee injury on the first day of training camp last year, missed the morning practice after having the knee drained.

"Little swelling but nothing major," Daniels said. "It's not a setback. I've practiced with it swollen for a couple of days, so I'm fine. Not setback at all."

Daniels said he plans to play Saturday night against the Pittsburgh Steelers at FedEx Field. "I'm playing Saturday," he said. "Just a precaution. Just rest it. Let it get back to where it needs to be."

Latest Practice Updates

Mike Williams was listed as questionable for Saturday's game, according to Zorn; he sprained his ankle Tuesday. ... Anthony Alridge did not practice this morning.

By Jason Reid  |  August 19, 2009; 11:17 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Comments

First...maybe

Posted by: scampbell1975 | August 19, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

secondary

Posted by: noonefromtampa | August 19, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

There was an article earlier this year from an analyst that watched every snap in the NFL with a focus on DBs, and ranked the top cornerbacks based on relevant statistics like attempts against, forced incompletions, yards per catch, TDs given up, INTs, etc. Carlos Rogers ranked 12th in the league according to his rankings, in front of other NFC East notables Asante Samuel, Terrence Newman, and Deangelo Hall, among others. Rogers is the real deal. Yes, he can improve his hands. But everything else is pristine.

Posted by: psps23

BS... he still bites on double moves. Not as bad but still too regularly to be considered elite.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | August 19, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

my phone tweets and the blogs posts, ain't technology sweet!

Posted by: noonefromtampa | August 19, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

ZJFR - who out there at tackle are we going to sign that is better than we have now? Haven't we already scoured the bottom of the barrel with BMW, Bridges, etc?

Posted by: Rypien11 | August 19, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Jonas Jennings
Levi Jones

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Whose starting in his place in drills?

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | August 19, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

The fluid accumulation in the knee might be indicative of scar tissue or even some floating debris in the knee. If the knee needs a tuneup with arthroscopy, now is the time to do it. They don't want this to linger all season and limit his playing time.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | August 19, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Who's starting in his place in drills?

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | August 19, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Regarding Cooley's inability to put his socks on due to back spasms. I remember last year he had some sort of spasms that kept him from putting on his jock or tighty whities.

Say a lil prayer for Daniels health. Do NOT want to lose this DL anchor for any length of time. If he's iffy, it increases Wynn's chances of making the squad, as anchor DL needs to be a big guy, not the rook (yet) or one of the lighter Jason Taylor type DEs.

Posted by: TheCork | August 19, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Daniels had a good run, but he's done. Give the young guys a chance. You've already got Wynn as the resident old guy, time to train up the young bucks.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 19, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't call #12 "elite." I would consider "elite" in the top five. But I'm sure Mr. ROGERS considers himself all that. And coming off last year, it not surprising HALL is out-ranked by CARLOS. DeANGELO had a rough year.

Posted by: glawrence007 | August 19, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

ZJFR - who out there at tackle are we going to sign that is better than we have now? Haven't we already scoured the bottom of the barrel with BMW, Bridges, etc?

Posted by: Rypien11 | August 19, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Jonas Jennings
Levi Jones

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 11:29 AM

There will be better talent available when the teams start to cut down. We'll pick up and RT then. In the meantime the guys in camp will benefit from the extra reps.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 19, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

"BS... he still bites on double moves. Not as bad but still too regularly to be considered elite.

Posted by: scampbell1975"

They aren't my rankings. That's an independent analyst's position after watching every snap of every game last year.

Yes, Rogers got beat on one double move last season (albeit badly). I understand everyone wants him to be Deion Sanders mixed with Ronnie Lott on every single snap played now and in the near future, but be realistic. Every corner, minus Asomugha, gets beat on occasion. He still put up top numbers. Take it for what it's worth.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

zJack, Levi Jones, yes, but for starter money. Jonas Jennings has a long and storied career (highlighted by last year) of not being able to play due to injury and the 49ers cut him to replace him with 15 year vet Marvel Smith. Skins already have lots of injured OTs. Pass.

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

'I wouldn't call #12 "elite."'

He actually wasn't #12. That was my mistake. He was ranked 8th.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

There will be better talent available when the teams start to cut down. We'll pick up and RT then. In the meantime the guys in camp will benefit from the extra reps.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 19, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

I sure as heck hope so, what we have now is not good enough for a 16 game season

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

DOES ANYONE KNOW MARTY S. EMAILL ADD FOR P.O. BOX NUMBER ?

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 19, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

ugg, this guy is back.....greeeeaaaaat

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

On the earlier thread about the potential for a lock out ... probably real bad for players ... but for me, that would be about $500 in savings on ticket prices AND my wife would not be seething about the Skins and my contributions to "family time" for 5 months that year.

What do non-NFL fans actually DO on Sundays?

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Hey ps, chill. He got beat on more than one double move and I'm not saying those are your rankings. I'm not bashing your opinion, you're entitled to it. I'm simply stating my opinion which is getting beat on double moves and dropping balls that hit you in the hands (repeatedly) makes you NOT an elite corner. I also understand that he was coming off of surgery and probably wasn't in the best shape to play a whole year of football. This year he does not have the same excuse.

I certainly don't want him to be Deion, I remember what that a-hole did here. Carlos is a much better tackler than Deion ever was.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | August 19, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

There will be better talent available when the teams start to cut down. We'll pick up and RT then. In the meantime the guys in camp will benefit from the extra reps.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 19, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

I sure as heck hope so, what we have now is not good enough for a 16 game season

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 11:37 AM

The rosters to watch are the teams that drafted an OT in the first round (or OTs in later rounds that look like they will take a starting spot) ... the lesser of the two existing starters (if he's still on the team) might become a cap casualty.

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

What do non-NFL fans actually DO on Sundays?

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse
--------------------------------------------

There's gonna be a mini - baby boom in June 2012.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | August 19, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

DOES ANYONE KNOW MARTY S. EMAILL ADD FOR P.O. BOX NUMBER ?

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 19, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

chRIs lArRy, on those links about Grimm that established your pwnership of t_e_ (t_e_, he pwned you), those were money finds. Did you google those or do you use a different search engine to find articles like that?

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

They aren't my rankings. That's an independent analyst's position after watching every snap of every game last year.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 11:35 AM

I read that too a few months ago...those rankings are crap. They had Corey f-ing Webster as a top 2 CB in the league. Complete crap.

I give Rogers credit for being a good corner on a team that has no pass rush. But you can get guys like him in the 3rd round, not in the top 10. I'll never forgive this organization for getting him over Merriman...dude grew up in the shadow of your stadium and plays a position of need. No excuse for missing that.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 19, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, I can see the argument for keeping Zorn. But I will reserve my agreement until this season is in the books. For me, it's not based on record, but how he handles adversity. Last year he did not do it well. I hope he has learned.

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 19, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

What do non-NFL fans actually DO on Sundays?

Posted by: dcsween

I hear tell some families go out to this thing called "Brunch" and talk with one another. Ugh!

Posted by: noonefromtampa | August 19, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Jacksonville could be a big one with them drafting two tackles one of the these guys will have to be cut right?....

78 Jordan Black OT 29 6-5 305 6 Notre Dame
73 Eben Britton OT 21 6-6 310 R Arizona
75 Eugene Monroe OT 22 6-5 320 R Virginia
79 Tony Pashos OT 29 6-6 326 7 Illinois
72 Tra Thomas OT 34 6-7 316 12 Florida State
74 Maurice Williams OT 30 6-5 302 9 Michigan

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Kinda surprised Daniels is back already. Usually knee injuries like an ACL tear takes a year and a half to heal.

Wouldn't go far to say that he's finished, but the coaching staff is somewhat delusional to have him starting a this point with his age and coming off major knee surgery.

Daniels is another that when he hangs it up, I'd like to see remain with the team as strength and conditioning coach.

I'm curious to see Chris Wilson and Orakpo on the field at the same time together.

Posted by: RedDMV | August 19, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

On the Betts v. Bradshaw Challenge, any one want to do a side bet? I'll give odds b/c zJack so pwns this one (unless Portis or Bradshaw get hurt) ... that particular challenge is season long rather than week-to-week, right?

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

zj, of that list, I'd say that Black, and Williams have the most chance of getting cut, of that group. 2 are rooks, and Tra Thomas just signed this year....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | August 19, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

"He got beat on more than one double move"

Alright, I'll challenge you. Other than the late Baltimore TD, what other double move in the last 2 years did Rogers get beat on?

And I didn't say he was an elite CB. I said other than his hands, he's an elite CB. The simple fact that he gets his hands on the ball as many times as he does, even if he drops them, separates him from a vast majority of the rest of the league. That, his low YPA given up, his high forced incompletion percentage, and his widely known ability to lay the wood puts him on a level that very, very few CBs in the league can replicate.

I understand people's frustration with his dropped INTs, but this would be a clear case of not knowing what you have until it's taken from you (should he end up leaving the Redskins at some point).

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

From the last thread... In no way should Zorn be canned after this year... Give the man a chance. He's of a different breed... which I like! He's extremely detail oriented and thinks outside the box. What makes you think it was Zorn's inability to asjust last season?

What did he have to work with? Teams keyed on stopping Portis at the line, doubling Moss and Cooley on throwing downs... Our O-Line couldn't handle blitzes in Pass-Pro...

Not to mention he was teaching the coaches the system going into last season.

I'm not sure what Zorn is supposed to do when he didn't have the protection and weapons to execute the offense properly. Let's just hope this year is a different story!

Posted by: EinVB | August 19, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

PSP - The article basically corrobarates (sp?) what I have been saying all along....Can CR22 focus this season while complaining about wanting to get paid. Can he put all that behind him? And will he be disappointed if his contract is dwarfed compared to DHall's? If it is, then he really would want out of here....

As to that article about the CBs, though he was high on that guy's list, he was also the most thrown at CB on that list. Hmmmm...I wonder why???? Maybe because he can't catch the ball and QBs aren't scarred of him?

Stu - From last post, I'll choose A.

(Got beeped last thread)

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 19, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

lol, sween

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

"I read that too a few months ago...those rankings are crap. They had Corey f-ing Webster as a top 2 CB in the league. Complete crap."

Jerry Reese and the $43.5 million contract extension he gave Webster disagrees with you.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

What do non-NFL fans actually DO on Sundays?

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:40 AM

Complain to their husbands about watching football......

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 19, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

zJack, Jaguars were one the teams that I figured was something like that ... also thinking the Steelers might have a spare. Pashos and Thomas were recently on the Ravens and Eagles, right? Tra Thomas seems like he might be their "veteran" back up insurance in the event the draft choices didn't work out.

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

What do non-NFL fans actually DO on Sundays?

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:40 AM |

They have book clubs. And they call the homes of people who are watching the game. "Oh. There's a game today? Well, what are you doing? Want to go for a ride in the mountains and watch the leaves turn?"

It's easier to be civil with brownwood than with those annoying pests.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 19, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Bean we agree on something, I think Black or Williams or both will be cut and I would take them both right now!

A depth chart of:
Samuels
Dock
Rabach
Thomas
Heyer
Bridges
Rhino
Black
Maurice Williams
and a center
and PUP Mike Williams
is freaking solid, if they did that, my complaints would cease...

which would be poor timing cause after I smoke you in our bet we wouldn't have anything to argue about anyway, but you'll be gone....

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Daniels had a good run, but he's done. Give the young guys a chance. You've already got Wynn as the resident old guy, time to train up the young bucks.
Posted by: brownwood26 | August 19, 2009 11:33 AM

You forgot to tell us that we heard it here first; actually this IS the first I have heard that Daniels is done…..everything else I’ve read has been positive, and he is listed as a starter. Agreed that if he injures the knee/ACL again his career would probably be over but I will still take him as a starter over most of the young guys though. There was a nice article today or yesterday explaining how we will now have some depth and rotation this year. Sounds good to me…….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | August 19, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Jacksonville could be a big one with them drafting two tackles one of the these guys will have to be cut right?....

78 Jordan Black OT 29 6-5 305 6 Notre Dame
73 Eben Britton OT 21 6-6 310 R Arizona
75 Eugene Monroe OT 22 6-5 320 R Virginia
79 Tony Pashos OT 29 6-6 326 7 Illinois
72 Tra Thomas OT 34 6-7 316 12 Florida State
74 Maurice Williams OT 30 6-5 302 9 Michigan

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 11:46 AM

Black and Williams combined for one start last year. I'm guessing they were injured. I think they signed Tra Thomas to be the backup. So between them and Pashos one or two figure to be the odd men out.

I think the Bucs play them next preseason game, maybe I'll check them out and see what the commentators say about them.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | August 19, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"I read that too a few months ago...those rankings are crap. They had Corey f-ing Webster as a top 2 CB in the league. Complete crap."

Jerry Reese and the $43.5 million contract extension he gave Webster disagrees with you.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 11:52 AM

Webster also has the great fortune of having an elite pass rush in front of him. Put him on the Lions or the Redskins and he's a role player.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 19, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

DOES ANYONE KNOW MARTY S. EMAILL ADD FOR P.O. BOX NUMBER ?

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 19, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

"Hmmmm...I wonder why???? Maybe because he can't catch the ball and QBs aren't scarred of him?"

Probably has something to do with it. The other obvious factor is the clear lack of pressure put on QBs by the defensive front, easily allowing the QB to attempt his passes at a higher rate of efficiency coupled with the amount of snaps Rogers played last season.

And despite all that, QBs still weren't successful against him.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Zorn pointed the finger at his players, publicly called out his best player, and has this aura about him that comes off as quirky, wacky, and sometimes weird.

I sort of liked his "out of the box" style, but it appeared that he sometimes was overwhelmed, and when he should have made adjustments with personnel, play calling, and philosophy -- he did not.

Those are some of the things that justifies the Zorn doubters. I hope he shuts them all up this year, including myself.

Posted by: RedDMV | August 19, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm with 23 on this one. For large stretches of last year, Rogers was as good as just about any corner in the league. Every corner gets beaten by double moves occasionally, and Rogers doesn't seem any more vulnerable to them than others do. If I had a team, he could definitely play for it.

Posted by: rbpalmer | August 19, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

If both of the Jags' OT draft picks work out, I'd be comfy with Tra Thomas too.

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"Webster also has the great fortune of having an elite pass rush in front of him. Put him on the Lions or the Redskins and he's a role player.

Posted by: brownwood26"

So Webster is an average player because he plays with a great supporting cast.

Just curious, who do you list on that upper echelon, other than Asomugha? Clearly you don't have Rogers or Webster there, despite the statistics (both individually and team-oriented).

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Just because there are very few lock down corners left in the league does not make Rogers elite by default. The guy is a solid corner, plays the run well and doesn't get beat repeatedly. But he needs to step up his game to be considered elite and get paid like a top corner.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | August 19, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I hear tell some families go out to this thing called "Brunch" and talk with one another. Ugh!

Posted by: noonefromtampa | August 19, 2009 11:45 AM

Brunch is only for guys who got laid the night before and hope for an encore performance.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 19, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

"Just because there are very few lock down corners left in the league does not make Rogers elite by default."

No. But the fact that there are very few corners in the league that can come close to his production (meaning not a simple INT total) does.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"There will be better talent available when the teams start to cut down. We'll pick up and RT then. In the meantime the guys in camp will benefit from the extra reps.Posted by: talent_evaluator"
"The rosters to watch are the teams that drafted an OT in the first round (or OTs in later rounds that look like they will take a starting spot) ... the lesser of the two existing starters (if he's still on the team) might become a cap casualty.
Posted by: dcsween"

Good chance the Skins will pick a tackle up, now that they've got a better eval on Mike Williams. However the variable that seems to positively affect o-line play isn't talent -- it's time playing together as a unit. From that standpoint, the Skins are going to require games to (hopefully) gel. Once the season starts, the fewer changes they make, the better (at least from a stats standpoint).

That's the concern about the Giant's offensive line, probably the best in the NFC -- they're apparently quite dependent on their starters. Great while they're healthy but if one or more goes down for an extended period, the odds shift in the opposite direction.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 19, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

What do non-NFL fans actually DO on Sundays?

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 11:40 AM

Does Not Compute... Does Not Compute... Does Not Compute

Posted by: 4-12 | August 19, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Brunch is only for guys who got laid the night before and hope for an encore performance.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 19, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse
---------------------------------------

More than happy to admit I've been there.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | August 19, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Just curious, who do you list on that upper echelon, other than Asomugha? Clearly you don't have Rogers or Webster there, despite the statistics (both individually and team-oriented).

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:02 PM

There's really no shutdown corners outside of Asomugha. Champ used to be, but I seem to see him get beat a lot in Denver. Plus he's 30 and the inevitable decline is coming. Revis is becoming really good. There are some good corners out there, but the list of the "upper echelon" is a short one.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 19, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Right now I would pick the following to make the defense.

DE:

DANIELS, CARTER, WYNN, JARMON, ORAKPO, ALEXANDER.

DT:

HAYNESWORTH, GRIFFIN, GOLSTON, MONTGOMERY, ALEXANDER.

MAYBE:

BUZBEE, JACKSON, WILSON.

PRACTICE SQUAD:

DIXON.

LB:

FLETCHER, McINTOSH, THOMAS, FINCHER, BLADES, ORAKPO.

MAYBES:

WILSON, HENSON.

PRACTICE SQUAD:

GLENN.

CB:

ROGERS, HALL, SMOOT, TRYON.

PRACTICE SQUAD:

BARNES.

SAFETY:

LANDRY, HORTON, DOUGHTY, MOORE

PUNTER:

SMITH.

THE SKINS should have picked GREG TOLER CB in the fifth round, and CORNELIUS LEWIS LG in FA.

Posted by: glawrence007 | August 19, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

This should be a good one:

Brownwood (never wrong…..ever) vs psps23 (debate style arguer who like the terminator, never, EVER, gives up….until he writes a three pager and you forget what you were even arguing about).

Get your popcorn ready…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | August 19, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Here's wishing Phil Daniels a rapid and healthy return to the field! I'm 100% pro-Daniels, esp. as a starter, and attribute part of last year's multiple team-wide shabingi to losing him at the beginning of camp. The man is massively strong for a DE, esp. in today's NFL of lean fast new breed of DE. Unlike the weakness of other divisions, the NFC East REQUIRES run stuffing DEs. Hurry back, Daniels (and put your feet up for a while ... like Albert, Portis, etc. have been doing for way more days).

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

... So Webster is an average player because he plays with a great supporting cast. ...

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:02 PM

Not jumping into the CB debate, and probably stating the obvious, but a great supporting cast definitely can make an average player look great. Titans in particular come to mind, esp. Kerry Collins behind Titan's O-line ... or Antwan Odom (DE) next to Albert in '07 (as Odom demonstrated in Cincinnati in '08).

I'm still underwhelmed by Asante Samuel away from his supporting cast. [OK, so I guess I am saying something about CBs.]

On shut down corners outside of Asomugha, I do think that Nate Clements is very very good at what he does.

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Rogers should be even better this year, because the improved pass rush will reduce the amount of time the DBs need to cover receivers.

Posted by: siris | August 19, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"What do non-NFL fans actually DO on Sundays?"

Arts & Crafts, church (6 AM - 5 PM), gardening, watch TV other than football, wash car(s), play with the kids (if you have 'em), visit parents, prepare for Sunday dinner....

Posted by: RedDMV | August 19, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

If Rogers was elite, why did our coaching staff have him as the 4th corner last year when everybody was healthy. He is a good player but there are several other corners I would take over him. I don't care what stat numbers you put up. Maybe our definition of elite is just different. Elite is like top 5, Rogers is not that.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | August 19, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Also, nice to see the trojan horse wreaking havoc in the artificial intelligence.

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2:

You've got your back-up center de jour, WIL MONTGOMERY. And I thought LG d'ANTHONY BATISTE did a solid job with the second string line. Didn't like what I saw fron the second string RG, RT, and LT however.

Posted by: glawrence007 | August 19, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

"What do non-NFL fans actually DO on Sundays?"

Arts & Crafts, church (6 AM - 5 PM), gardening, watch TV other than football, wash car(s), play with the kids (if you have 'em), visit parents, prepare for Sunday dinner....

Posted by: RedDMV | August 19, 2009 12:17 PM

Yuck, sounds worse than Thanksgiving.

Stinkston, in the previous thread, 4th Floor had a link to an article in a F-burg paper about Roger's late season demotion. His bump was to #3, not 4.

Posted by: dcsween | August 19, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

FIREJIMZORN - You may notice that no one is feeding your trollage. You may also notice that your repetitive jokes are not funny. You may further notice that you need to find something better to do with your time than posting the same message on a message board once an hour, especially one so ridiculous and inconsequential.

Posted by: Rypien11 | August 19, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I remember the strike time from the 1982 season…..so completely miserable I couldn’t stand it. I think it was the only time I ever got straight A’s on my report card……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | August 19, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

With my security blanket off to NEW ENGLAND, I'll believe "elite" corner play by the REDSKINS when I see it. HALL looked good on that goal-line block though didn't he?

Posted by: glawrence007 | August 19, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Brownwood (never wrong…..ever) vs psps23 (debate style arguer who like the terminator, never, EVER, gives up….until he writes a three pager and you forget what you were even arguing about).

Get your popcorn ready…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | August 19, 2009 12:09 PM

Funny...note that psps23 and I are actually able to have a debate without it turning to namecalling. Although I don't necessarily agree with his opinion, I respect it and I'm hoping that it's vice versa. Maybe one day T_E will exhibit that kind of decency...

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 19, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Rogers was never our 4th corner thats kinda crazy. Just saying that we should appreciate a player for what he does, not where we got him and what he does not do. And again i mean literally folded him like a lawn chair, had to sit out the rest of the game after they moped him up five minutes later(tell me asante samuals will ever do that). If he does that to our opponents best playmaker every game i could care less if he never catches an int for the rest of his life.

Posted by: Stu27 | August 19, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

My mistake, he was actually ranked 8th in the NFL, fwiw.

http://life.atlantafalcons.com/index.php?showtopic=3849571

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse


OK. Interesting article.

I'm not sure who Tony Pisano is, but I question his "eyes" considering that he calls DeAngelo Hall outright "horrible".

Frankly, I trust the judgment of our coaching staff over/above Tony Pisano. By the end of the season last year, Carlos Rogers was our 3rd CB.

He's got strengths and weaknesses. I don't think anyone up here is saying he's an outright bum, but I'm not giving him #1 CB money until he shows he's more consistent in coverage and can make plays on the ball when he gets the opportunities.

If he were a 4th round draft pick, or something, I'd say he's far exceeded expectations. But for someone drafted 9 overall, it's a bit disappointing that he's not emerged as a clear-cut number 1 on his own team.

Posted by: p1funk | August 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

"There's really no shutdown corners outside of Asomugha."

That's fair enough, but I never called him a shutdown corner. He isn't a guy you just stick on a receiver, then forget about the rest of the game. As you said, there is really only one guy that truly fits that description at this point.

But the whole argument stemmed from earlier in the offseason when rumors came about that the Redskins were considering trading him. There was a debate on whether or not the Redskins should commit to him. When it comes down to it, guys like him are not found easily at all, even if he's not Asomugha. That's why you have teams like the Saints grasping for Leigh Torrence. Or teams like the Patriots throwing money at multiple veterans like Springs, hoping that one sticks. Or great FOs like the Giants throwing $40+ million at what, even now, some observers deem as an "average" CB.

You will not get much better than Rogers if at all, but you can certainly get much, much worse than him. And that's why he's worth the money that he's asking for.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Agreed....ps always keeps it classy.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | August 19, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Three Weeks Ago, The Headline Was:

"Redskins Homerun hitter up in the air"

But when you read this....

"... Anthony Alridge did not practice this morning..(again)"

...it makes you wonder if the team is saving Alridge so he can be a healthy home run hitter or making sure he's healthy for his trip home after camp is over.

Posted by: MistaMoe | August 19, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

psps: "Probably has something to do with it. The other obvious factor is the clear lack of pressure put on QBs by the defensive front, easily allowing the QB to attempt his passes at a higher rate of efficiency coupled with the amount of snaps Rogers played last season"

When you look at the Skins' dismal record on QB pressures and sacks last season, you can't help but think the secondary was doing an even better job than believed.

DB performance is one of those things that's just plain hard to measure independent of the defense as a whole. Much easier to quantify the performance of the d-line.

Rogers may have his stengths and weaknesses, but if he played a lot on the Washington defense in 2008, he's good.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 19, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

the problem with all these guys who have hamstring and calf issues, tweeked knees, abdominal strains and the endless list of dings and scratches, is they don't practice and it limits what can be done in the games. How is Williams expecting to make this team at tackle when he isn't practicing or showing anything? Daniels is dinged - sit his butt until he's ready to go - THESE GUYS HAVEN'T WON ANYTHING IN A LONG TIME AND WANNA BE DOESN'T GET YOU IN THE PLAYOFFS.

Posted by: outrbnksm | August 19, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Maybe one day T_E will exhibit that kind of decency...

Posted by: brownwood26

Don't see that happening

Posted by: jm220 | August 19, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

You will not get much better than Rogers if at all, but you can certainly get much, much worse than him. And that's why he's worth the money that he's asking for.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:29 PM


I'll agree with that.

It's that same reason that I'd like to see this team do right by Campbell. He's far from elite, but you've got a much better chance of doing worse than Campbell than doing better.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 19, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

"Not jumping into the CB debate, and probably stating the obvious, but a great supporting cast definitely can make an average player look great. Titans in particular come to mind, esp. Kerry Collins behind Titan's O-line ... or Antwan Odom (DE) next to Albert in '07 (as Odom demonstrated in Cincinnati in '08).

I'm still underwhelmed by Asante Samuel away from his supporting cast. [OK, so I guess I am saying something about CBs.]"

Without getting into the underlying merits of the supporting cast debate, wouldn't the fact that Rogers actually had a relatively poor supporting cast, by pass-defense standards, actually boost his evaluation? Certainly you can't compare the pass rushes of Washington to the likes of Philly, the Giants, or Dallas last season. You would think that actually makes his stats even more impressive.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

psps23 is like a Russian winter during wartime. He always wins the War of Attrition.

Posted by: chrislarry | August 19, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

But the whole argument stemmed from earlier in the offseason when rumors came about that the Redskins were considering trading him. There was a debate on whether or not the Redskins should commit to him. When it comes down to it, guys like him are not found easily at all, even if he's not Asomugha. That's why you have teams like the Saints grasping for Leigh Torrence. Or teams like the Patriots throwing money at multiple veterans like Springs, hoping that one sticks. Or great FOs like the Giants throwing $40+ million at what, even now, some observers deem as an "average" CB.

You will not get much better than Rogers if at all, but you can certainly get much, much worse than him. And that's why he's worth the money that he's asking for.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse


Really, what you seem to be saying is that he's NOT worth the $$, but since he plays a high-demand position where values are inflated he should get the $$ based on that.

I can agree with that assessment. Teams overpay for QBs, LTs and CBs.

I still don't think WE should give him that $$, b/c we've got tons of cash wrapped up CP, AH and now DHall. I'd rather that we stop dropping ultra-rich contract on certain select starters and focus a little more on investing in quality depth.

Posted by: p1funk | August 19, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

You will not get much better than Rogers if at all, but you can certainly get much, much worse than him. And that's why he's worth the money that he's asking for.

Posted by: psps23 | August 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

I'm not jumping in this conversation, I'm happy with CR and want him to stay for a long time, he is an above average corner....but...off the top of my head:
Asamuahanaauuahga
Bailey
Revis
Dunta Robinson
Nate Clements
Antonio Cromartie
Cortland Finnegan
Chris Gamble
Deangelo Hall
Terrance Newman
Asante Samuel
Marcus Trufant
Antoine Winfield

are all guys that would be better. (Fortunately DHall is on our team) he deserves starter money but he doesn't deserve top end money, he is a quality starter at corner in the league for any team and should be paid as such, but he is not an elite corner.

Posted by: zjfr2 | August 19, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

brownwood26: "Daniels had a good run, but he's done."

Jeez, you could say that about half of the posters on this board...

Posted by: Samson151 | August 19, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Namecalling isn't too far off from stubbornness and sarcasm. One thing to counter another's point or view, but it's something else when you just want to be right all the damn time. And won't even acknowledge there is a slight possibility that you could be wrong.


I say the gun, not the sword, is mightier than the pen. If someone engages in a debate, and I think they aren't trying to have a pissing contest, then I'll come back with a little class that should result in a healthy debate. If I think that this person is just coming with that "I'm always right na-na-na-na..." bs, then I'm going to act real ignorant and classless with your ass...

psps23, what up homie?

Posted by: RedDMV | August 19, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Why Zorn must go:

-He let his star running back trod all over him last year in the media and did not address it effectively. A coach has the first and last word on the team. Superstar or not, if a player yaps to the media about the coach, they should feel pain in the wallet and in playing time - and the punishment should be as public as the player made his statements.

-He brought back Shawn Alexander last year when clearly there were better players on the market. There was even a better player on the roster in Rock Cartwright, who the team basically ignored when they needed a third running back to carry the ball.

-He does not make in-game adjustments very well. I use the Steelers and Ravens games as examples. If I am a coach, and somebody is playing pinata with my QB, the first thing I am going to do is give enough protection until the QB gets some time - even if that means playing with one wide receiver and nine offensive linemen. Conversely, I have seen some teams line up five wideouts and dare the other team to blitz. Zorn chose to march along with his same game plan. Did you ever hear that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for different results?

-No coach should ever make a statement like, "I should have called a better game." The players need to have trust in the coach and that the coach is going the right thing. I don't care if a coach calls the worse game of his life. Players have to look up to the coach. Never, ever undermine this.

-He left a starter on the bench after he came back from injury (Heyer vs Jansen). Heyer was a starter last year before he was injured and when he was healthy again, Zorn decided to stay with Jansen. Starters should never lose their job because of injury. It is bad practice. It suggests that there was not a fair evaluation of Heyer before he went down with injury. Clearly there was something fishy about this. If Jansen was better, then why isn't he still with the team?

-He is soft on the vets. Bad practice. It is a double standard. You are saying that no matter what the junior guys do, they will still not be treated the same way. This is a football team and not a factory job. Every day the player has to go out and win his job. If a veteran is injury prone, how does it help the team by masking this through limited playing time? If the guy is injury prone, identify it in camp by giving them the same reps as everyone else, and then get rid of them.

I could go on, but I am already writing a novel here.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | August 19, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Fan Base Declaration of 2009
______________________________________

It appears that the Redskins fan base is partially comprised of a group of "football geniuses". These football academicians are obviously wasting their lives in their current jobs!

Moreover, I think they are wasting their time even posting here because the rest of us fans are just not smart enough to understand how terrible the Redskins are for eternity!

In order to save these football geniuses' time, I suggest we all admit the following principles so to free the football geniuses to perform other scholarly football activity.

Summary of Redskin Football Status per RFKROX and other super-smart and negative posters:

1) Redskins are the worst team in the NFL forever.

2) Redskins need a new owner, a new general manager, a new head coach, a
new set of offensive and defensive coaches. They need a new QB, A new offensive line, a new set of recievers and tight ends. Redskins also need a new set of defensive players, plus a new stadium in a new city.

3) Unless #2 above is accomplished, the Redskins will have horrible seasons forever.

4) Redskins are worst than all other NFL teams

5) All other NFL teams have better owners, coaches and players

6) Anybody who ever hope that the Redskins will have any success is devoid of any football acumen.

As the representative for football-dumb Redskins fans, I admit that above information is forever true. We worship the ground where the football geniuses consume large amounts of brew daily.

Based on the above admission, I ask the football geniuses not to waste their time on these boards anymore. They should start consulting other fan bases and enlighten them on a daily basis regarding how inadequate their teams are. Redskins are a lost cause, so why bother?

We have also asked the Redskins gestapo to stop holding a gun to people's head to force them be a Redskins fan.

Effective immediately, all football geniuses are thereby relieved from their state-sponsored duties to be a Redskins fan. This is true, I am not kidding. Nobody is going to be sued if they stop being Redskins fan. Moreover, people are also free not to watch the games on TV or go the stadium!! I am absolutely not making this up guys!

You all have the freedom to adore Wade Phillips and Tom Brady. Hell, you guys can even date them, both, at the same time. Feel free to take along your family too!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | August 19, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Old lineman report LOL

I like daniels but why he's still on this team i do not know.
I believe this defense is not as good as people thank they will be.

Old lineman,question mark on the DB,linebackers are suspect and the safety issue has not been upgrade since Taylor death.

Posted by: shamken | August 20, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

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