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Expect Mike Williams to play; Edwin Williams may start

Veteran tackle-guard Mike Williams (ankle) is expected to play Sunday against the Philadelphia Eagles at Lincoln Financial Field, but rookie guard Edwin Williams might make his first career start, Coach Jim Zorn said.

"He is going to be available," Zorn said of Mike Williams, who sat out the last two games. "He's trying to work his way as quickly as he can into the mix now. He's got a great attitude. His ankle is a lot better. He's able to move, and move laterally. ... Right now, he's going to be starting from the backup position, but he's working."

After sitting out the last game against Dallas, defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth (ankle) hopes to play against the Eagles. ... Rock Cartwright will start at running back, but the recently re-signed Marcus Mason will play, Zorn said. ... With top cornerback DeAngelo Hall (knee) slowed, cornerback Carlos Rogers worked with the first-team defense today.

By Jason Reid  |  November 25, 2009; 5:11 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Gray: May the best scheme win

Comments

1st career start for Edwin Williams. Good luck.

Posted by: 4-12 | November 25, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

great, another shuffling of the O Line. I'd like to see Edwin in there though and see what we have with him.

Posted by: Neverender84 | November 25, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

2nd string RG Mike Williams.

Posted by: 4-12 | November 25, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Denied! Dangit, I was ready to roll...

Posted by: 4-12 | November 25, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Neverender ended your roll...

F phily

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 25, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

5th string RG, is that a record?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 25, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

More like 7th

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

great piece on McCoy, if this was an Eagles blog

You suck J Reid

Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 25, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

When I was a kid I tried to assemble en entire insect from parts found in various cereal boxes.

I think the 'skins might be trying to do something similar--reassemble the Maryland Terp's offensive line at the pro level.

Gotcher Heyer

Gotcher Williams

However did they let Crummy get away?

Posted by: TheCork | November 25, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

For those talking about signing Roth:

============

Matt Roth is a Brown
Posted by Mike Florio on November 25, 2009 5:25 PM ET
Given the unusual circumstances that have unfolded this year between linebacker Matt Roth and the Dolphins, he probably wasn't upset to be released.

We wonder how he feels about where he has landed.

As Rosenthal pointed out in his post regarding the waiving of Roth, the Browns have made a waivers claim on Roth -- and the Browns have been awarded his contract.

Even though Roth is in the final year of his four-year contract, this could be more than a one-year arrangement. If there's not extension to the labor deal by March 2010, the Browns will be able to keep Roth's rights via the rules of restricted free agency.

Then again, if/when coach Eric Mangini gets fired, the new regime might decide to let Roth go.

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 25, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Denied! Dangit, I was ready to roll...

Posted by: 4-12 | November 25, 2009 5:20 PM

4-12 -- Your handle seemed pessimistic at the start of the season. Now, wildly optimistic. Give it up -- you'll never get this thing right.

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of the Terps...Man they're soft and Vasquez is high if he thinks he can play at the next level.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone name five teams that JC would be the clear starter on if he were to leave today?

Posted by: rickyroge | November 25, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rickyroge | November 25, 2009 5:55 PM

How many teams are in the UFL?

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

However did they let Crummy get away?

Oh, they've had crummy locked up for a while now.

Posted by: daggar | November 25, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

There's a video snippet of BMW a couple of days ago interrupting JC and Strawberry Shortcake. BMW picks up JC, chair and all, and moves him about five feet.
Just looks like a little joke at first, then you think "that's 240 pounds he's joking around with".

Posted by: daggar | November 25, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone name five teams that JC would be the clear starter on if he were to leave today?

Posted by: rickyroge

San Francisco, Oakland, St. Louis, Buffalo, and Miami. You could also include Carolina and Jacksonville in the mix too.

Posted by: dcwun | November 25, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

There's a video snippet of BMW a couple of days ago interrupting JC and Strawberry Shortcake. BMW picks up JC, chair and all, and moves him about five feet.
Just looks like a little joke at first, then you think "that's 240 pounds he's joking around with".

Posted by: daggar

All JC had to do was move to the left or right and BMW would have stumbled into the wall behind them. Ole' to the Matador.

Posted by: dcwun | November 25, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

so what happens if jerry gray goes to memphis, does this force blache to speak to the media again? i miss watching greg blache talk to the media, he's hilarious!

Posted by: BMACattack | November 25, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

However did they let Crummy get away?

Oh, they've had crummy locked up for a while now.

Posted by: daggar | November 25, 2009 6:05 PM

the bungels claimed crummey of the skins practice squad last year... he started 5 games for the bungels... he now plays for the texans... way to go skins... way to go vinny... way to go...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | November 25, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

At this point, I'm happy we're playing folks who haven't played, we get to see who can really play who can't. Frankly speaking, some of the folks who have been getting the starts shouldn't.

Posted by: clark202 | November 25, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone name five teams that JC would be the clear starter on if he were to leave today?

Posted by: rickyroge

San Francisco, Oakland, St. Louis, Buffalo, and Miami. You could also include Carolina and Jacksonville in the mix too.

Posted by: dcwun

------------------------------

Tampa Bay, too? OH, almost forgot... Chicago and the NY Jets.

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 25, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

and Denver

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 25, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone name five teams that JC would be the clear starter on if he were to leave today?

Posted by: rickyroge

San Francisco, Oakland, St. Louis, Buffalo, and Miami. You could also include Carolina and Jacksonville in the mix too.

Posted by: dcwun

------------------------------

Tampa Bay, too? OH, almost forgot... Chicago and the NY Jets.

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 25, 2009 6:59 PM |

------------------------------

don't forget cleveland or seatle or...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | November 25, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm waiting on some kind of story about Quinton Ganther that's on par witht he one about the iggles' player McCoy.

Both are rookie running backs.

Thing is, I want to read about the rookie running back on our team.

If Rock gets hurt, he gets the ddream chance to showcase his skills and possibly earn a serious look for next year.

C'mon, mistamayor: learn to think ahead of the curve and feed us a thread about "Q".

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Heck, might as well throw in Philly, too, the way they hate McNabb up there.

But definitely NOT Indianapolis, New England, NY Giants, or Dallas. And NOT Atlanta or Houston. Tennessee? Could have happened, but VYoung is looking good now. And Cassell's coming along in KC. But, yeah, among the 12 teams we've mentioned, you'd have to think he'd be starting comfortably on at least 5 of them.

We forgot Detroit, now that Whatshisface is hurt.

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 25, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

"Can anyone name five teams that JC would be the clear starter on if he were to leave today?"

The place I worry about Campbell being a starter is in Washington.

To do otherwise would mean some rookie signal caller is going to spend 16 Sundays getting beat up like a bad child behind the skins' porous offensive line.

That's Campbell's job.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

yeah, who IS this Quinton Ganther, anyway?

I mean, now that we know all about the Eagles' backups, maybe we could find out about the Skins' backups...

Like, "what's Marcus Mason been doing since he last got cut again?"

Looks like he might have put on some weight... Has he been playing Madden? Eating twinkies? Both?

Hard hitting stuff like that is what we're looking for.

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 25, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

so what happens if jerry gray goes to memphis, does this force blache to speak to the media again? i miss watching greg blache talk to the media, he's hilarious!

Posted by: BMACattack | November 25, 2009 6:36 PM


Blache had one of all time favorite coach quotes last year:

"We tried to get a job at Giant and couldn't, because we can't sack groceries."

Posted by: freakzilla | November 25, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

We forgot Detroit, now that Whatshisface is hurt.

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 25, 2009 7:11 PM

You make it sound like JC is a top 10 QB. I wonder why we couldn't give him away during the offseason and a lot of the teams you mentioned wouldn't give us a 3rd or 4th for him.

Considering your assumption that he could start on 3/4 of the teams in the league then we have no shot at resigning him.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 7:32 PM | Report abuse

"...Edwin Williams may start..."

Sometime this summer, the WaPo left Edwin Williams' mug atop the online redskins' sports page for more time than most bloggas were willing to deal with.

Folks complained that, yes, Williams' life was compelling, but his rather unattractive, sweaty profile had become too much to greet everyday in the upper lefthand corner.

But now his image becomes attractive as the title 'starter' gets placed before his name and hope attached to his chances.

This summer, some of us listed hungry guys like Marko Mitchell, Antonio Dixon, and Edwin Williams as the lunchbucket types we'd like to see on the roster.

Dixon is gone, but both Mitchell and Williams have shone that where we 'hate' on the skins' FO for incredible blunders, we hardly ever praise little rays of hope in players like Horton, Blades, Williams, and Doughty.

Williams played quite well at guard this past weekend, and this team needs young guys like him--and Ganther--to seize chances when they come.

Williams wasn't all that handsome when we saw him on the main page of the Redskins' sports' section this summer.

In fact, his unpretty stare symbolically crystalized the redskins' season to come.

But he sure as heck looks good as a starter.

And some of us are glad to see a hungry homely guy like him gets a chance to make his dreams come true.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

I'm waiting on some kind of story about Quinton Ganther that's on par witht he one about the iggles' player McCoy.

Both are rookie running backs.

Thing is, I want to read about the rookie running back on our team.

If Rock gets hurt, he gets the ddream chance to showcase his skills and possibly earn a serious look for next year.

C'mon, mistamayor: learn to think ahead of the curve and feed us a thread about "Q".

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 7:10 PM |

feed us a thread about "Q"? The dud is some warm bod that is here to get us to the end of the season for Chrissake. Talk about morbid curiosity. That's like asking for more details about a terrible train wreck.

Posted by: TLoad | November 25, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

You make it sound like JC is a top 10 QB. I wonder why we couldn't give him away during the offseason and a lot of the teams you mentioned wouldn't give us a 3rd or 4th for him.

Considering your assumption that he could start on 3/4 of the teams in the league then we have no shot at resigning him.

Posted by: Diesel44

Puts it in perspective huh? Despite the flaws of our QB, it could always be worst. Maybe, just maybe, your QB isn't as bad as some make him out to be. JC will be here for at least 2 more years.

Posted by: dcwun | November 25, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Here's a question for Blatche...

Of the 60 plays the D was on the field. Why would Daniels be on the field for 48 and Jarmon and Alexander be on for a combined 5.

This dude is barely a productive player when he was healthy and finished the game with 1 tackle and zero QB pressures.

C'MON Blatche, Do I have to insult Danny so you can tell me why he was a non-factor against Doug Fine.

They need to send Daniels and Wynn packing.


Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 7:46 PM | Report abuse

No freaking way JC starts in Tampa Bay.....

Posted by: cocodc1 | November 25, 2009 7:51 PM | Report abuse

No freaking way JC starts in Tampa Bay.....

Posted by: cocodc1

Yeah right. He easily starts in Tampa over Joshes.

Posted by: dcwun | November 25, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Campbell won't be STARTING on any team - including Washington - on opening day 2010.

But he'll be a back-up for some team.

Book it.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 25, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

C'MON Blatche, Do I have to insult Danny so you can tell me why he was a non-factor against Doug Fine.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 7:46 PM |

Doug Fine = Did Fine

Hah!

Posted by: TLoad | November 25, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

They need to send Daniels and Wynn packing.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 7:46 PM

That's a start, but let's make sure the door doesn't slam shut on the way out. Plenty more need to be shown the exit. FO also.

Posted by: bones21 | November 25, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

Blache had one of all time favorite coach quotes last year:

"We tried to get a job at Giant and couldn't, because we can't sack groceries."

Posted by: freakzilla | November 25, 2009 7:30 PM
==========================================

Classic!!
And unfortunately, the story continues...
But Carter & Borakpo seem to be changing this.

Posted by: priceisright | November 25, 2009 8:19 PM | Report abuse

feed us a thread about "Q"? The dud is some warm bod that is here to get us to the end of the season for Chrissake. Talk about morbid curiosity. That's like asking for more details about a terrible train wreck.

Posted by: TLoad | November 25, 2009 7:37 PM

There was a terrible train wreck? Where? Was anyone hurt? Do tell!

Posted by: mack1 | November 25, 2009 8:19 PM | Report abuse

Ok, please explain to me how JC would start in Miami and Tampa Bay? Both of those teams have young QB's that they are trying to get experience and see as their future. So I would subtract those 2 teams, cause I don't think they would totally change their minds on grooming their young QB's just because check down Campbell would be available.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 25, 2009 8:22 PM | Report abuse

I just saw on nfl.com that the bidding for Shanahan starts at $10 million. Danny is going to have to add at least another $5 million plus some control over player acquisition to reel him in.

Posted by: TWISI | November 25, 2009 8:29 PM | Report abuse

I just saw on nfl.com that the bidding for Shanahan starts at $10 million. Danny is going to have to add at least another $5 million plus some control over player acquisition to reel him in.

Posted by: TWISI | November 25, 2009 8:29 PM

Shanahan gets $7 million next year from Denver if he doesn't work. So, yeah, you've got to do better than his unemployment benefits if you want him to show up at your job site.

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

"...The dud(e)--Quinton Ganther-- is some warm bod that is here to get us to the end of the season, for Chrissake."


The point, sir, is that if Rock Cartwright gets hurt, a warm bod named Quinton Ganther and another one named Marcus Mason will be the change o' pace backs the redskins feature.

Not $7.5 million man Clinton Portis.

Not 2006 MVP Ladell Betts.

Two warm bods (as you call them) and Rock to take the ball in between the times Jason Campbell is running for his life.

Ganther, Cartwright & Mason.

Sounds like the title of a law firm.

Sounds like the title of the way Vinny's alleged playoff ready roster wasn't supposed to end the season.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be surprised if Snyder stays away from the big $$ names out there and, instead, hires another young guy. Or Fassell or Billick -- cheap guys who came close to the brass ring.

I am not convinced that his finances will allow him to go on another big spending spree. The only thing he's making money on right now is the Redskins, and even there his revenues have to be down this year and heading south next year.

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 8:41 PM | Report abuse

League-Source Snyder will have to do something to appease the masses after the past year and a half. He'll have to spend big $$ to either get a big time GM , coach, or both.

Posted by: TWISI | November 25, 2009 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Or Fassell or Billick -- cheap guys who came close to the brass ring.

I am not convinced that his finances will allow him to go on another big spending spree. The only thing he's making money on right now is the Redskins, and even there his revenues have to be down this year and heading south next year.

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 8:41 PM

Fassel was suppose to be the HC and Zorn the OC. Only something happened and now that something is gonna prevent him from ever being a HC in Wash.

Billick wears a ring and he wouldn't come cheap.

You may want to check your league-sources because Finances are never a problem when it comes to Danny.

Can I introduce you to Haynesworth and Angelina Hall.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 8:59 PM | Report abuse

I just saw on nfl.com that the bidding for Shanahan starts at $10 million. Danny is going to have to add at least another $5 million plus some control over player acquisition to reel him in.

Posted by: TWISI | November 25, 2009 8:29 PM |

$10 M/yr for a coach that was fired in his prev job? You have got to be kidding. Of course that might include lots of $$$ from his Bronco contract that prob has a few more yrs to run. If Shan has his choice of Wash or Dall he would prob take Dall and their QB/WRs over what Wash has, assuming the offers are similar.

Posted by: TLoad | November 25, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

twisi

"...Snyder will have to do something to appease the masses after the past year and a half..."

Winning and building for the long-term will appease this section of the fanbase.

And because I'm not down with getting rid of Jim Zorn, I guess I'm like a reverse John the Baptist crying in the wilderness for stasis and stability.

The redskins change coaches, but not how they operate.

If they operated differently, they would keep Zorn, remove Vinny from talent acquisition duties, and get a general manager from a place that has successfully rebuilt its team.

Whatever system Zorn and Sherm are putting together for the offense needs a guy who'll bring in the talent to make it work.

We don't need another big name and money coach.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

You may want to check your league-sources because Finances are never a problem when it comes to Danny.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 8:59 PM

We'll see, won't we?

What you mean is "have never been a problem."

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

$10 M/yr for a coach that was fired in his prev job?

Posted by: TLoad | November 25, 2009 9:00 PM

Actually the $10 M is for a coach who won two Super Bowls. Not many of them on the market. Supply and demand and all that stuff.

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Billick wears a ring and he wouldn't come cheap.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 8:59 PM

Shanahan is getting $7 million, not to work. Billick is making probably $350,000 to broadcast football games. Who do you think will come cheaper?

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 9:11 PM | Report abuse

If they operated differently, they would keep Zorn, remove Vinny from talent acquisition duties, and get a general manager from a place that has successfully rebuilt its team.

Whatever system Zorn and Sherm are putting together for the offense needs a guy who'll bring in the talent to make it work.

We don't need another big name and money coach.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 9:03 PM |

Don't know if you have been following Skinz newz lately but there is zero chance Zigmond will be around next yr. The O has been a disaster plus Ziggy has taken to bringing his needlepoint to his pressers, volunteering how many plays he calls when the FO specifically instructed him to cease and desist.

Posted by: TLoad | November 25, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 9:05 PM

You would think that Danny would be affected by the economy so we shall see. His track record says otherwise.

Either way he needs to hire a GM and then have the GM hire the coach. Any other hiring strategy would lead to another 10 years of this nonsense.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Actually the $10 M is for a coach who won two Super Bowls. Not many of them on the market. Supply and demand and all that stuff.

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 9:09 PM |

But it is a what have you done for me lately world. Those 2 SBs seem like eons ago.

Posted by: TLoad | November 25, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Tload

"Don't know if you have been following Skinz newz, lately but there is zero chance Zigmond will be around next yr. The O has been a disaster plus Ziggy has taken to bringing his needlepoint to his pressers..."

I follow the skins as closely as you read my posts for nuggets of info to parse and criticize.

I know the general theme of Zorn's impending departure from Redskinsland.

My point, sir, is that I don't agree with it.

Is it Zorn's or the FO's fault that no padding of drafted offensive linemen have been added to shore up the failing offense he was instructed to install, regardless of the personnel?

The same folks who acted arrogantly in hiring Jim Zorn and stripping away his playcalling duties blame him for their failures.

So they'll fire him and hand out a mega-contract to some other savior: just as they've done for the past ten years.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

I'll say it again...hire the GM and have the GM hire the coach.

The GM/Coach dosen't work. If you don't believe me ask Holmgren and Joe Jackson Gibbs. Unless of course you have a coach with the limited duties of a Zorn.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 9:31 PM | Report abuse

I'll say it again...hire the GM and have the GM hire the coach.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 9:31 PM

That is one way to do it, and a lot of linear thinking owners go that route. But is it really better than the owner hiring the assistants and then promoting one of them to be HC?

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 9:37 PM

This FO pretty much does everything azz backwards.

Fassel was suppose to be the HC and agreed with Zorn and Blatche as his assistants.

I can only assume that he finally met the two and came to his senses. This led dumb & dumber to hire dumberer.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 9:43 PM | Report abuse

Diesel44

"...I'll say it again...hire the GM and have the GM hire the coach..."

This is what we mean when we say change how you operate, not just change the coaches every few years.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse

I know the general theme of Zorn's impending departure from Redskinsland.

My point, sir, is that I don't agree with it.

Is it Zorn's or the FO's fault that no padding of drafted offensive linemen have been added to shore up the failing offense he was instructed to install, regardless of the personnel?

The same folks who acted arrogantly in hiring Jim Zorn and stripping away his playcalling duties blame him for their failures.

So they'll fire him and hand out a mega-contract to some other savior: just as they've done for the past ten years.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 9:30 PM |

Admittedly there has been plenty of blame to go around for the current wretched state of the Skinz. Be that as it may, most would agree that Zorn doesn't have the bona fides to be a successful head coach. We have seen this in a variety of areas:

1. Staffing and delegating authority.
2. Adapting to personnel available.
3. Play calling.
4. Inculcating discipline and focus in the players' approach to the game.
5. In-game decision making.

The list goes on and on. It will be best for all concerned when Zorn and the Skinz part ways at the end of the season.

Posted by: TLoad | November 25, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Tload

"...Be that as it may, most would agree that Zorn doesn't have the bona fides to be a successful head coach."

The FO knew this when they hired him.

So how do they then turn around and fake like they didn't?

When you hire a guy who somewhat qualified for a job, you know upfront you're going to have to give him time to 'grow into the position'.

You surround the guy with veteren types and overlook early mistakes hoping for gradual improvement.

Apparently, this line of management theory escaped the thinking of the redskins' FO.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 9:30 PM

I agree with you Moe. I don't blame Zorn at all.

I blame the guy who hired a QB coach to be an OC (without any experience) and then promote him to HC (without any experience) and then make him responsible for both. People should know their limitations but I can't blame him for taking the job.

I also blame Vinny for saying he gave Zorn a playoff caliber roster, having bug eyes, being inarticulate, and for some off the worst radio in the history of radio. His show is called the "Red Zone", you just can't make this stuff up.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Apparently, this line of management theory escaped the thinking of the redskins' FO.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 10:07 PM

I'm not buying this, Moe. They did all the right things by Zorn and gave him a chance to grow. Problem is that not only has he not grown but he has shrunk. He's moving in the wrong direction and I don't think it's reasonable to expect that a third year on the job will be enough for him to thrive. He is not meant to be HC.

Posted by: League-Source | November 25, 2009 10:14 PM | Report abuse

In order to have continuity and longevity with a coach staff then you need to pick the right people.

This cannot happen when the wrong people (Danny/Vinny) are in charge.

Zorn's got to go because he should have never been hired.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 10:24 PM | Report abuse

diesel44
"I blame the guy who hired a QB coach to be an OC (without any experience) and then promote him to HC (without any experience) and then make him responsible for both."

League-source
"I'm not buying this...They did all the right things by Zorn and gave him a chance to grow."

So who's right?

pick'em: I'm rolling with diesel44.

No matter what anyone says about Zorn's maturation, he has the team playing well.

This was evident after halftime of the falcons' game.

And if a coach fails at everything, he must succeed in getting guys to lay it out on the line for him.

The redskins play hard game after game, no matter their record.

You can not ask more of 53 men than that.

And this point in Zorn's tenure is from where the team needs to move forward.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Redskins news, notes and analysis
By: JOHN KEIM
Examiner Staff Writer
11/25/09 5:37 PM EST

Cleaning out the notebook:
...University of Memphis insiders expect Redskins secondary coach Jerry Gray to be announced as coach perhaps as early as Saturday. However, there is a strong push by football alumni and even local high school coaches to have the school hire Jerry Porter, who played at Memphis and is now coaching at LSU. There's even talk of some M-club members, a booster group made up of donors and former players, resigning if Porter isn't hired. That's why no announcement has been made yet. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
And if Gray does indeed get the job, he will be taking over a difficult situation, one where many people wanted the other candidate. Some fences will need major mending. The insider said Fred Smith, the FedEx Founder and Redskins part owner, is "100 percent" behind Gray. But Porter has a big name among the alumni and fan base; Gray does not.
...Gray's loss would be a tough one for the Redsins. The players genuinely seem to like, and more importantly respect, Gray.

Posted by: TWISI | November 25, 2009 10:28 PM | Report abuse

I am not a HOMER...BUT

I do not subscribe to this notion that EVERYTHING is Snyder's fault. If this were the case, Snyder should take all the credit when they win. I just think the FO has such "win now" mentality that it clouds their ability to build for the future.

I don't subscribe to the notion that Zorn and Campbell are martyrs going down with the ship. Zorn was and is a part of this mess. Campbell has had chances to show if he is an elite or even consistent starter and he hasn't.

That's my take...

Posted by: rickyroge | November 25, 2009 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Gray's loss would be a tough one for the Redsins. The players genuinely seem to like, and more importantly respect, Gray.

Posted by: TWISI | November 25, 2009 10:28 PM

I wish Jerry Gray all the best because if this job doesn't workout then he will be unemployed in 6 weeks.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Maybe there sending Gray off before the ship sinks, because they like him ? Maybe there going to blow this whole thing up and there will not be a sole left, so they threw him a life perserver. Maybe hard work really does pay off....

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | November 25, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rickyroge | November 25, 2009 10:34 PM

I'm a homer and will tell you that Snyder is the only constant in the last 10+ years. This midget has been making the same mistakes for a decade and he has to show me that he is tired of losing by doing things differently.

If he fires Vinny and hires a GM and then has the GM hire the coach I will truly know he has changed.

Anything less will be business as usual.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 10:45 PM | Report abuse

When I was a kid I tried to assemble en entire insect from parts found in various cereal boxes.

I think the 'skins might be trying to do something similar--reassemble the Maryland Terp's offensive line at the pro level.

Gotcher Heyer

Gotcher Williams

However did they let Crummy get away?

Posted by: TheCork | November 25, 2009 5:34 PM

The problem with trying to recreate the Terps OL is two fold.

1. They're not very good

2. The best of the bunch is starting @ B-more and looks a 8-10 year starter and could have been had for a 4th rd pick.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 10:55 PM | Report abuse

For some reason as a kid growing up a Skins fan, I respected Ron Jaworski, Wilbert Montgomery and Harold Carmicheal...

I hated Mike Quick!

Posted by: rickyroge | November 25, 2009 11:13 PM | Report abuse

I hated all those guys

Posted by: SMACK1 | November 25, 2009 11:37 PM | Report abuse

EDWIN WILLIAMS was a good pick and will become a force in this league long after "Chin-Whiskers" RINEHART is a faded memory.

Our line now has a decent retread(JONES) at LT, DOCKERY at LG, RABACH at center, a rising force in EDWIN WILLIAMS at RG and HEYER at RT. Back-ups are Nobody at LT that's any good, D'ANTHONY BATISTE at LG which is the one position he's decent at. WIL MONTGOMERY, acceptable at C, RANDY THOMAS at RG - maybe, next year, maybe, and MIKE WILLIAMS at RT. Here's hoping not one more o-lineman gets hurt this year.

Next draft we need a great FS on defense first, moving LaRON LANDREY back to SS with HORTON and DOUGHTY as back-ups and letting KAREEM MOORE go.

Then we should draft the best remaining RT in the draft second, and the best remaining left guard fourth.

Fifth, and seventh should go to another o-lineman and a LB.

In 2011, we should pick a LT in the first round IF we don't pick up a great one in FA in 2010.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 25, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

And we should keep CAMPBELL another year, and sign the best FA kicker in the off-season to shyt-can SUISHAM. Man his KO's are an abomination. Get HUNTER SMITH healed up and the special teams should be good to go.

Posted by: glawrence007 | November 25, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Edwin was a FA center out of MD. I would be happy with adequate but being a force is a long shot. You said force twice for some reason.

You are also counting on two of the biggest busts in the last 10 years (Jones & BMW)to start next year....Both of these dudes were top 10 picks.

Your suggestion draft suggestion is...
1st: FS
2nd: RT
4th-7th OL and OLB

I want what you're drinking....

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 26, 2009 12:20 AM | Report abuse

MistaMoe: I can see where you come from in terms of having sympathy for and wanting to retain Zorn. Both of you have an affinity for saying things that do not make sense. Take this post of yours:

=========================================
diesel44
"I blame the guy who hired a QB coach to be an OC (without any experience) and then promote him to HC (without any experience) and then make him responsible for both."

League-source
"I'm not buying this...They did all the right things by Zorn and gave him a chance to grow."

So who's right?

pick'em: I'm rolling with diesel44.

...

And this point in Zorn's tenure is from where the team needs to move forward.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 25, 2009 10:26 PM |
========================================

So you're "rolling with diesel44" and the team needs to move forward with Zorn as the HC. The only problem is that diesel44 posted the following previous to your post:

========================================
Either way he needs to hire a GM and then have the GM hire the coach. Any other hiring strategy would lead to another 10 years of this nonsense.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 25, 2009 9:26 PM |
========================================

So you're rolling with a dude that says fire Zorn and start over by hiring a GM to hire a new HC and you want the Skinz to move forward with Zorn. How does one make any sense out of that?

Posted by: TLoad | November 26, 2009 12:31 AM | Report abuse

I agree with Moe when he agrees with me, however I've gotta believe he is joking by backing Zorn.

It's hard to argue against hiring a GM and then having that GM hire a coach.

Considering Zorn is Gonzo. What would TLoad do?

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 26, 2009 12:41 AM | Report abuse

I also agree with Diesel44, in his second post... and with League-source's premise, but ultimately with MistaMoe's overall take on the situation... the one TLoad laid out.

See, TLoad, you're missing the point. We move forward with Zorn, hire a GM and get a new Head Coach. It seems pretty clear to me!

Promote Zorn to GM and let everything fall into place!

How hard was that?

Posted by: Thinker_ | November 26, 2009 2:27 AM | Report abuse

TLoad

You forgot this quote in your analysis of several out of context quotes:

"....I follow the skins as closely as you read my posts for nuggets of info to parse and criticize..."

Again: the 'rinse and repeat' action of losing a coach who has the team's respect every so often is what's dooming the Washington Redskins.

The team is on the brink of this action now.

It meets the defintion of stupidity when you repeat actions failed you already all in the name of change.

The team hired an inexperienced guy, and told him to install an offense that didn't match his personnel.

Then it spent an offseason adding money players to its defense while the offensive line was at the heart of the team's troubles.

Zorn was set up to fail and is too nice a guy to point fingers at the men upstairs.

I say it's better to retain the guy who has the heart of the lockerroom.

If you fire him, then hire a GM to hire the new coach.

To me, all of these conclusions on my part make sense.

But if you take chunks of this post and niblets from another, none of it flows together or seems logical.

But a lack of logic and perspective is always at the heart of criticism.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 26, 2009 7:25 AM | Report abuse

all this injury baloney, how about letting collins start so we can score some points. zorn you are sinking fast with campbell, look at the raiders after their qb change.

Posted by: cavalieri10 | November 26, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

blache should be FIRED if he lets daniels play 48 more snaps the rest of the season he is too slow to get to the qb his only position now is back-up DT nothing else. I agree both daniels,and wynn should be cut by the new HC. washington should draft in this order(even if they drop down in the draft for more players)LT RB RT etc.. lets see if moore can play free safety he has good speed and hits hard,doughty is the one who needs to be released he is too slow a good hitter but slow. e. williams may turn out to be a good football player.

Posted by: wathu19 | November 26, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

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