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Fletcher says he's game if Redskins switch to 3-4 defense

Defensive coordinator Jim Haslett recently said he is considering changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense. Haslett believes the Redskins have the personnel to make a smooth transition, and middle linebacker London Fletcher does, too.

During a conference call with reporters Monday to discuss his first Pro Bowl selection, Fletcher said the Redskins have the talent to succeed in any scheme. "I think we do," he said. "There's a lot of teams that play 34 defenses. And really, some of the things we did last year were of a 3-4 defensive concept even though we didn't necessarily call it a 34.

"Our main defense was basically an under front that was similar, really, to what Dallas did ... the way we aligned our front. The only difference was instead having a stand-up outside linebacker, Andre Carter just had his hand on the ground. You can imagine him standing up, we're pretty much Dallas."

Fletcher is on his vacation and has not spoken with Coach Mike Shanahan or Haslett, but said he would be fine with any scheme.

"I can play in whatever defense," he said. "I feel comfortable in a 4-3, obviously. I feel comfortable in a 3-4. Whatever they feel like they want to do."

By Jason Reid  |  January 25, 2010; 1:45 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Comments

Thank goodness. I have been worried about this since I first heard the difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3. Keep up the breaking news!

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm all for a 3-4

Posted by: iH8dallas | January 25, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Next post for the day: London Fletcher heads to the Men's Room.

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 25, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I'm interested in what the Seahawks are doing. Whats up with this Redskins news?

Posted by: iH8dallas | January 25, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I know Fletch would be Game, but a few on the team such as Carter, Griffin, Golston, & Monty don't have the Game for it.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

all fletch all the time....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 2:03 PM | Report abuse

4. Rex spent the 2009 season as the backup QB in Kyle Shanahan's offense in Houston - so he's familiar with the offense and should be able to easily step into the role here.

Posted by: PDXskin | January 25, 2010 1:53 PM

So, he knows the offense -- more or less. Can he actually execute it in a game? This is one where we'll just have to see what the 'Skins do, because only Shanahan knows.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 2:06 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe Fletcher is on vacation. With a new coaching staff, and possible switch in defensive philosophies, you'd think Fletcher would be at the park trying to get the playbook and prove to them he's still a capable LB even at 35.

Posted by: TWISI | January 25, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

I think, given what I have read in the previous couple of posts, Fletch would be "game" if he was part of a 0-1. Seems to me that he is slightly excited about being "All-Pro" and not really focused on the ramifications of 3-4 vs 4-3. Good for him... If there is anyone on the team that should be allowed to celebrate personal awards, it's him.

Posted by: amaranthpa | January 25, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 25, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

what's the benefit of running a 3-4 instead of a 4-3? what is the down side to running a 3-4 instead of a 4-3? someone illuminate please :-)

Posted by: 4SkinzForever | January 25, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse

**Regardless of what folks here say about JC, he's a significant upgrade over S Rosenfels or T Jackson.**

....and a significant drop off from Favre. McNabb should be their next QB.

**Use of that clitche has to be reserved for the Skins coming from behind in the 4th qtr on the road to beat Dallas 17-14.

Posted by: ElDrano**

Need a new QB then as JC hasn't done that yet, I mean well, it's only been 5 years, so we should give him more time. jk


Posted by: 1965skinsfan | January 25, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

If you're the agent for this OT from Boston College, you are not psyched by this:

http://www.walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2010weighinOL.php

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 2:12 PM | Report abuse

what's the benefit of running a 3-4 instead of a 4-3? what is the down side to running a 3-4 instead of a 4-3? someone illuminate please :-)

Posted by: 4SkinzForever | January 25, 2010 2:10 PM

The top defenses in the NFL (Jets, Ravens, Steelers, Broncos ... plus the Colts and Chargers) run the 3-4. Green Bay (#2) used to run a 4-3 last year, but got to #2 this year. The Bengals, Minnesota, and Carolina (and Skins) round out the top 10 defenses with a 4-3, but 3-4 just seems to keep yardage contain b/c it can stop the run with three guys down plus one LB ... and the other three LBs cover the short to mid passing game ... without exposing who is staying home to cover the run.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 2:17 PM | Report abuse

thanks dcsween!

Posted by: 4SkinzForever | January 25, 2010 2:20 PM | Report abuse

a.Why all the snarky jive jibes?
b.London is the Man.

Posted by: ridgely1 | January 25, 2010 2:22 PM | Report abuse

bean

There's a story that the Yanks might add Texas Ranger All Star left-fielder Nelson Cruz via a trade.

They crave Cruz as he's a homerun (33 in '09) hitter.

Cruz, Granderson, and Swisher would be the outfield.

I know you don't care that the Evil Empire has already printed up its "We Got 28 Rings" t-shirts.

I just thought I'd rub it in.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 25, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I think, given what I have read in the previous couple of posts, Fletch would be "game" if he was part of a 0-1. Seems to me that he is slightly excited about being "All-Pro" and not really focused on the ramifications of 3-4 vs 4-3. Good for him... If there is anyone on the team that should be allowed to celebrate personal awards, it's him.

Posted by: amaranthpa | January 25, 2010 2:09 PM

He's not All-Pro, but Pro Bowler.

All-Pro = Gold medal
Pro Bowler = Silver medal
Pro Bowl Alternate = Bronze medal

Still, it's a medal. Most guys don't get one.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Montana and Brady got it done outside in the mud and snow.

Posted by: coparker5 | January 25, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

So your going to fault a guy for something he has now control over?

Do you have proof that Peyton couldn't play in snow or mud?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 25, 2010 1:10 PM

I have proof that Peyton can play in the pouring rain.

[And proof that the NFL somehow forget about how pissed off a few tens of thousands of people got after paying huge sums of money to watch a Super Bowl game in the rain in Miami.]

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Clark's financial quandary
2:17PM ET
Ryan Clark | Steelers
Top Email

The Pittsburgh Steelers probably want to bring Ryan Clark back, and he's told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that he wants to come back. With both sides in agreement on that issue, now it just comes down to the size of his new contract.

As the Post-Gazette's Ed Bouchette notes, the team will not likely want to have both safeties amongst their highest-paid players on defense, and so Clark will not make as much in Pittsburgh as he would elsewhere. Thus, the debate that Clark will have this offseason is: is the money I'll make on another team enough to trump the value I place on staying in Pittsburgh?

Could be an interesting situation as we head towards the start of free agency, and we're sure to hear more on other teams that could take a shot at Clark.

Posted by: TWISI | January 25, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

moe, I'm jealous, I really am....not quite sure what the sawks plan was this offseason, I liked the Lackey deal, but everything else was confusing to me....So they let bay go, but replacing him with hermidia/cameron?? Really? Who in this lineup now scares anyone??....they're going to have to win a lot of 2-1, and 3-2 games......

I'd rather have mashers...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Next post for the day: London Fletcher heads to the Men's Room.

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 25, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

One or two?

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 25, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Could be an interesting situation as we head towards the start of free agency, and we're sure to hear more on other teams that could take a shot at Clark.

Posted by: TWISI | January 25, 2010 2:31 PM | Report abuse

wouldn't be a bad get.

I'd like to see him at FS and Laron as SS.

While they're at it, they can move Doughty for some o-line.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 25, 2010 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Can all the 3-4 detractors/haters/doubters please man the f*ck up now and step to the mic...

I mean, if Haslett and LFB thinks it can happen, then why can't it? These are two of the more respected defensive minds in football. It isn't like Jim Zorn told you it could work....

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

3-4, 3-5, whatever it takes...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 25, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Clark's financial quandary
2:17PM ET

##################################################

This is the kind of BS post that you get when you don't post about London Fletcher.

Clark is 31 and coming off an injury. No one is going to give him a big contract. May as well stay where he's happy.

So, back to Topic 1. What flight is London Fletcher taking to the Pro Bowl? First class or coach? Where's he staying? Did he book with Orbis so he can get money back if Donovan McNabb gets a cheaper room?

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse

3-4, 3-5, whatever it takes...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 25, 2010 2:43 PM

West Coast attitude checks in three hours too late and way too flexible. Still, more pleasant than anything Chris Larry puts up here.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 2:45 PM | Report abuse

That's because London is professional and a good teammate.

Take note, Albert.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 25, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

"PFT is reporting that for the second time in less than a year, Braylon Edwards could be traded. Already on Rex Ryan's sh*t list for his lack of production and dropped balls during the regular season, Edwards reportedly infuriated not only the coach, but the remainder of his teammates as well, with his comments following the playoff loss to the Colts. Teams reportedly interested in Edwards are the Redskins and Raiders, with a bidding war to follow for his services"

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 2:43 PM

Not a detractor, actually a fan o 3-4. Just need to replace Carter, Griff, Monty, & Golston and pick up a NT, 3-4 DE, ILB, OLB. You could have the personnel in 2 years.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Can all the 3-4 detractors/haters/doubters please man the f*ck up now and step to the mic ... I mean, if Haslett and LFB thinks it can happen, then why can't it?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 2:43 PM

Because the backfield is still just Hall, Rogers, Landry, and a player-to-be-named later? Because the Skins' brand still operates under a dark cloud?* I give up. What's the right answer?

* "D.C. football team made a pact with the Devil ten years ago. True story."

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

how about some senior bowl news? Who is looking good, who is not?

Posted by: vtsquirm1 | January 25, 2010 2:55 PM | Report abuse

44, that's how I thought it would play out. I wasn't expecting them to switch immediately, but looked for them to start lining up in 3-4 formations.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Can all the 3-4 detractors/haters/doubters please man the f*ck up now and step to the mic...

I mean, if Haslett and LFB thinks it can happen, then why can't it? These are two of the more respected defensive minds in football. It isn't like Jim Zorn told you it could work....

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 2:43 PM
-----------------------------------------
Red,
Back away from the kool-aid man. Don't be drinking that stuff just yet. I haven't seen Haslett coach a 3-4 defense just yet and I sure as hell haven't seen the Redskins players in it. They can spin this change any way they want, but you don't convert to the 3-4 over night without a few broken eggs... bones, hearts, etc...

We're going to see the same growing pains on the offensive line as well, because we don't have a true zone blocking line today.

Change is a certainty. Cuts and trades are a likelihood. Dogs and cats will be sleeping together by the end of the week. Book it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 25, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse


Next post for the day: London Fletcher heads to the Men's Room.

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 25, 2010 1:58 PM | Report abuse

One or two?

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 25, 2010 2:39 PM

He needed to "drop the browns off at the Super Bowl", but Jonathan Vilma was in the only stall...so he had to wait.

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 25, 2010 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Braylon Edwards for a second and next year's third.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Just need to replace Carter, Griff, Monty, & Golston and pick up a NT, 3-4 DE, ILB, OLB. You could have the personnel in 2 years.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 2:52 PM

I wouldn't think they need to go that far, but I agree that another DT who can play 60 snaps at NT is a good idea. Griffin needs to be replaced due to age anyway, but I sense his replacement is already on the roster. Carter should be traded, but mostly b/c he doesn't LIKE playing OLB in a 3-4 (and an unfulfilled football player is not going to bring the harmonious mojo necessary to rain mayhem on Romo ... plus, Carter's trade value seems real high right now). They've been trying to ship Montgomery for a while. Golston is actually the guy who I think would be taking the most snaps at NT unless/until they get Bachelor #3. [Lozo seems like the other NT candidate.] I think we're good on the line, but even in a 3-4 the Skins are too shallow at LB.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Teams reportedly interested in Edwards are the Redskins and Raiders, with a bidding war to follow for his services"

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 2:51 PM

Where? Post a link! I looked all over that website and I can't find this? Do you think they pulled the story after the Redskins mouthpiece called and threatened to sue them? Maybe they called Vinny out of habit. I can't see Allen doing this. Do you think Zorn planted this for revenge? Post a link -- this is BIG!!!!!

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I haven't drank kool-aid in years.

True story.

But if I did it would be red flavored.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I meant shallow at LB in a 4-3. Orakpo was a force fit at OLB in the 4-3. If we went 3-4 with this roster, it would be Orakpo - Blades - Fletcher - MacIntosh, i.e., position in need of upgrade.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

"I can play in whatever defense," he said. "I feel comfortable in a 4-3, obviously. I feel comfortable in a 3-4. Whatever they feel like they want to do."

Kind of wish Haynesworth had this kind of attitude. Then again we haven't really heard anything specifically about the Redskins potential switch. All we have to go on right now is the comments he made as a free agent and his feud with Blache over how he was used.

Posted by: CapsXXVI | January 25, 2010 3:03 PM | Report abuse

ls, sorry, can't get to that site at work...I'll post it when I get home.....later tonight....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Dogs and cats will be sleeping together by the end of the week. Book it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 25, 2010 2:57 PM

Is this book written by Michael Vick? If so, they might be sleeping together, but in the morning, only one of those species is there when its time to wake up.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

"PFT is reporting that for the second time in less than a year, Braylon Edwards could be traded. Already on Rex Ryan's sh*t list for his lack of production and dropped balls during the regular season, Edwards reportedly infuriated not only the coach, but the remainder of his teammates as well, with his comments following the playoff loss to the Colts. Teams reportedly interested in Edwards are the Redskins and Raiders, with a bidding war to follow for his services"

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 2:51 PM |

Yeah, sure. The real reason they want to trade him is because with a WR named Crotchety and another one named Clowny the dude just didn't fit in.

Posted by: ElDrano | January 25, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

what's the benefit of running a 3-4 instead of a 4-3? what is the down side to running a 3-4 instead of a 4-3? someone illuminate please :-)

Posted by: 4SkinzForever | January 25, 2010 2:10 PM

It's more confusing for the QB. In a 4-3, the QB knows 4 guys on the line are rushing, he has to look at 3 line backers and identify which, if any, might also rush.

In a 3-4, he has to identify out of 4 LBs instead of 3.

That's a very simple explanation, but you get the point, the defense has more options.

Posted by: REXskins | January 25, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 3:02 PM

Posted by: ElDrano | January 25, 2010 3:06 PM

I hope you guys are kidding...

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 25, 2010 3:08 PM | Report abuse

But if I did it would be red flavored.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 3:02 PM |

Heard of orange flavored. Never heard of red flavored.

Posted by: ElDrano | January 25, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

CapsXXVI, I think Haynesworth would be a natural DE in a 3-4 and could play however he wanted. A ton of his sacks came either when Orakpo blocked down with Haynesworth stunting around to the outside ... or just lining up on the outside. As long as there is an LB to seal off the outside, Hayneworth could go nuts (and would) as a sack machine as a 3-4 DE.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Any "upgrade" needs to be done in the defensive backfield. They have plenty of smaller defensive ends who could play linebacker int he 3-4. Jarmon is there along with Carter, Orapko, and Wilson.

So, why discuss it? They don't need an "upgrade" at linebacker unless you are planning on replacing Fletcher (age) and McIntosh (injury / age). They can't do that now. They don't have the picks nor a good set up salary cap wise.

But they do need to do something about the terrible defensive back play sooner than any linebacker or d-line shenanigans. They have spent far too much time and money on those two areas as it is. D-line, beast on the d-line ... now linebacker I'm tired of hearing it dudes! You ended up at 4-12 remember? Sheesh.
Time to deal with that "other line", the offensive line. After that its got to be defensive back.

Posted by: periculum | January 25, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Dogs and cats will be sleeping together by the end of the week. Book it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 25, 2010 2:57 PM

Is this book written by Michael Vick? If so, they might be sleeping together, but in the morning, only one of those species is there when its time to wake up.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 3:06 PM
------------------------------------------
It has as much hope of becoming true as Bean's Braylon Edwards rumor....

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 25, 2010 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth would be an absolute animal as a 3-4 DE. Would love to see it, he would be unblockable.

Posted by: iH8dallas | January 25, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

From ESPN - "Wizards' Crittenton has plea deal, attorney says ". Guess the dude ratted out Agent Orange.

Posted by: ElDrano | January 25, 2010 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Heard of orange flavored. Never heard of red flavored.

Posted by: ElDrano

The "red" kool-aid is a "urban" thing... For some reason "folks" call cherry kool-aid "red".

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

F Arenas

F Crittenton with a syphilis d*ck

This whole thing stemmed from Gilbert owing the dude money, or taunting him because he owed him money -- or whatever the f*ck.

Either way Crittenton is a busta ass bama who had his feelings hurt in some form or fashion by Arenas. When he saw that he couldn't bait Arenas into real drama, he rolled and ratted on the dude Arenas.

Crittenton = b*tch made ass bama

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

From ESPN - "Wizards' Crittenton has plea deal, attorney says ". Guess the dude ratted out Agent Orange.

Posted by: ElDrano | January 25, 2010 3:14 PM

Probably, although in the case of Gilbert Arenas I don't think the term "ratted out" applies.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Wow, as we see people wanting to dump campbell, the inferior Garrard goes to the pro-bowl.

Jaguars QB David Garrard is atop a list of players who got Pro Bowl invitations after the Super Bowl teams were finalized on Sunday.

Garrard, who threw for 3,597 yards with 15 TDs and 10 INTs this season for the 7-9 Jaguars, will replace Colts QB Peyton Manning on the AFC team.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 25, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

This whole thing stemmed from Gilbert owing the dude money, or taunting him because he owed him money -- or whatever the f*ck.

Either way Crittenton is a busta ass bama who had his feelings hurt in some form or fashion by Arenas. When he saw that he couldn't bait Arenas into real drama, he rolled and ratted on the dude Arenas.

Crittenton = b*tch made ass bama

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Crittenton owed some other dude 1,100 and wasn't about to pay up.

How are you gonna get to pulling guns over that much money when you're a millionaire.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | January 25, 2010 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Post says:

"Senior Judge Bruce Beaudin on Monday agreed with the prosecutor's suggestion and sentenced Crittenton to one year of unsupervised probation and $1,250 in fines. Crittenton also agreed to begin a mentoring program to District children and work with the NBA on relief for Haiti earthquake victims."

What a joke DC justice is. $1,250 in fines? Who wants this guy to be a mentor to their kids or anyone else's kids? And what does Haiti have to do with it? If there hadn't been an earthquake, what would he be doing? Jail time?

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 3:48 PM | Report abuse

guy I work with came back from lunch/getting a hair cut and said none other than Pete Kendall was in the chair next to him...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

ppstr8, Crittenton plays in the NBA, true indeed. But he never saw real NBA money. Man after taxes, and him being a young dude you know he was blowin' money...

Crittenton's attorney said that Crittenton feared for his life. And that's why Crittenton brought an UNLOADED gun into da city.

This Crittenton story is getting weirder by the minute: First he said that never had a gun and that the stories that were being put out there was wrong -- he himself had said that he did nothing wrong.
Then it comes out that he really had a gun, then his attorney said that he feared for his life... from Gilbert Arenas?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 3:57 PM | Report abuse

what's the benefit of running a 3-4 instead of a 4-3? what is the down side to running a 3-4 instead of a 4-3? someone illuminate please :-)

Posted by: 4SkinzForever | January 25, 2010 2:10 PM | Report abuse
___________

Now I'm just going on a high-school football player education here, but I've always viewed the 3-4 as having much more flexibility than the 4-3 as long as you have the right personnel. IMO, you need a serious stud NT who can bust double teams, stop the run, and collapse the pocket; strong, fast DEs who can stop the run, and LBs who can blitz but who are big and strong enough to face opposing tackles on running plays, which they normally wouldn't have to do in a 4-3. A 3-4 defense can run some more exotic formations and creative schemes than a traditional, basic 4-3, and can sometimes get more pressure on the QB b/c the 'backers tend to be bigger and stronger. The problem is that if you don't have the right personnel, you can get killed right up middle i.e., the 1,2 holes b/c your NT isn't good enough and the backers can't handle the big OTs and pulling guards as the "first line of defense". I've read that AH doesn't to want to play in a 3-4 b/c it limits his flexibility and how he wants to play, but I think he, Daniels (he's old though), Orakpo, London, and maybe Rocky would be good at it. Not sure about Carter - by his own admission, he didn't do well as a 3-4 style OLB at SF, and I'm not sure if he's big enough to be a 3-4 DE. Blades is too small, I think. Does anyone else with more knowledge than me (not a very high hurdle) have any opinions?

Posted by: skinsfan713 | January 25, 2010 4:03 PM | Report abuse

guy I work with came back from lunch/getting a hair cut and said none other than Pete Kendall was in the chair next to him...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 3:57 PM

I'm not falling for this one until you post a link to it on PFT. You're so making this one up.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 4:04 PM | Report abuse

guy I work with came back from lunch/getting a hair cut and said none other than Pete Kendall was in the chair next to him...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1


Surprised his arthritic knees didn't start to flair up from sitting down in the chair too long.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Leagues, people are using the Haiti quake like they do any other natural disaster. For exploitation purposes only.

I'm not sure how they exactly work, but I know that starting a relief fund is great and all, but for the person who started it couldn't they use that as a tax write-off? And I'm almost positive that every penny that is donated to these "help funds" don't all make it to the intended purpose.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

guy I work with came back from lunch/getting a hair cut and said none other than Pete Kendall was in the chair next to him...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

don't believe it, it didn't come from PFT.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 4:05 PM | Report abuse

It's more confusing for the QB. In a 4-3, the QB knows 4 guys on the line are rushing, he has to look at 3 line backers and identify which, if any, might also rush.

In a 3-4, he has to identify out of 4 LBs instead of 3.

That's a very simple explanation, but you get the point, the defense has more options.

Posted by: REXskins | January 25, 2010 3:07 PM | Report abuse
----------------------------

I'm going to temper that response by saying that it does not have any intrinsic advantage over the 4-3. Certain player combinations may function better as a 3-4 or 4-3, but there is nothing on paper that makes the 3-4 more 'feared' than the 4-3.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Aside from all that stuff up above. Skins play more of a 5-2 for the last year.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 25, 2010 4:09 PM | Report abuse

'Skins need to start giving offenses different looks, peroid. 4-3, 3-4, 4-6, 5-2 -- whatever set they come up with defensively they need to run it.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

"PFT is reporting that Pete Kendall got a haircut today in Norwell, MA"

happy???

I probably NEVER posting something I read on PFT on here again....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Braylon Edwards for a second and next year's third.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 2:59 PM |

Just what we need, another rcvr who has grease for palms.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 25, 2010 4:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how they exactly work, but I know that starting a relief fund is great and all, but for the person who started it couldn't they use that as a tax write-off?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 4:05 PM

Yeah. Snyder flew a plane load of obsolete T-Shirts, jerseys, to Haiti and got a big tax break.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse

'Skins need to start giving offenses different looks, peroid. 4-3, 3-4, 4-6, 5-2 -- whatever set they come up with defensively they need to run it.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 4:13 PM | Report abuse

My Ideal would be for the skins to run
3-4
4-6
3-3-5
335Cobra
4-1-6 dime
3-1-6 quarter D

Posted by: alex35332 | January 25, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

For those of us a little light on the RI lingo...what is a "BAMA" and what is "SKJ"?

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 25, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how they exactly work, but I know that starting a relief fund is great and all, but for the person who started it couldn't they use that as a tax write-off?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 4:05 PM

Yeah. Snyder flew a plane load of obsolete T-Shirts, jerseys, to Haiti and got a big tax break.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 4:18 PM | Report abuse
-------------------------------

Not to be construed as worse than simply throwing them away, tho

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

probably NEVER posting something I read on PFT on here again....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 4:14 PM

That's a change? You've never posted anything from PFT. You don't even know how to find PFT on the web.

BeantownGreg = PhoneyBalony.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 4:23 PM | Report abuse

bama is what reddmv is, for example:

"reddmv continues to act like the bama that he is"....

or

"true to his bama roots, reddmv is truly a bamafied bama"

hope that helps..

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Bama, is a DC term for a foolish person, check Urban Dictionary.

SJK was a term during the golden age of RI, as an early version of writing **** for profanity.

Dude name Jack came on the blog complaining about Fbombs and stuff cuz his kids would be reading the blog. SJK stood for Sorry Jacks Kids.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 25, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

probably NEVER posting something I read on PFT on here again....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 25, 2010 4:14 PM

That's a change? You've never posted anything from PFT. You don't even know how to find PFT on the web.

BeantownGreg = PhoneyBalony.

Posted by: League-Source

beat me to it ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

what is "SKJ"?

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 25, 2010 4:20 PM |

The stuff around vinny's nose from everytime that snyder came to a sudden stop.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 25, 2010 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how they exactly work, but I know that starting a relief fund is great and all, but for the person who started it couldn't they use that as a tax write-off?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 4:05 PM

Yeah. Snyder flew a plane load of obsolete T-Shirts, jerseys, to Haiti and got a big tax break.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 4:18 PM

Not "write off" ... "write up"

Also, just b/c they were obsolete doesn't mean they didn't sell ... on the decks of the rescue carrier, m/v Zcezcest.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

thanks alex

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 25, 2010 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Dude name Jack came on the blog complaining about Fbombs and stuff cuz his kids would be reading the blog. SJK stood for Sorry Jacks Kids.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 25, 2010 4:26 P

came and stayed ... Jack = zfjr#.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

For those of us a little light on the RI lingo...what is a "BAMA" and what is "SKJ"?

Posted by: MColeman51 | January 25, 2010 4:20 PM | Report abuse
-------------------------

Bama has many shades of meaning, mostly slanted towards 'idiot'. Hicks were saying it in Maryland (or at least my inlaws were) as far as 8 years ago, so I can only assume it as some unpleasant racial connotations.

SJK is a self censure, meaning Sorry Johns Kids, kids who apparently read the blog and were allegedly influence by the language. Or so legend has it.

Somebody had a link to RI lingo, but I since lost my favs in a tragic computer suicide, so maybe someone else can point you to some of the more flavorful RI lexicography.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

as for 3-4 vs 4-3, Fletcher's comment reminded of the potato/potato, tomato/tomato pronunciation thing.

You say 3-4, I say 4-3, yadda

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth would be an absolute animal as a 3-4 DE. Would love to see it, he would be unblockable.

Posted by: iH8dallas | January 25, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth actually played that slot on passing downs quite a bit this season. I agree, for the 12 games he'll play, he will be unblockable, especially with Haslett taking the handcuffs off him.

Posted by: rich20ssu | January 25, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

http://redskinsinsiders.wetpaint.com/page/RI+Lingo

RI Lingo page.

That wetpaint thing has been dead since JaLaCa left for NFLN

Posted by: alex35332 | January 25, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"West Coast attitude checks in three hours too late and way too flexible. Still, more pleasant than anything Chris Larry puts up here.

Posted by: League-Source"

How is this for pleasant LS/TE/DB....why don't you go choke on that "wit" of yours gramps like the creamed corn you struggled to get down at lunch. I have posted like once in 6 days, yet you continue your "Tyranny of Dull" you have been perpretating up here for going on, what now, 4 seasons/offseasons? I've already basically just been ignoring your tired contrarian act for months, but about twice a weak I see some pillowbiter attack on me that is just seeking to get some of that attention you so slavishly crave. Now a I am pissed I even fell for it. Carry on TE/LS/DB, the RI faithful are hanging themselves on your every post....

Posted by: chrislarry | January 25, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

came and stayed ... Jack = zfjr#.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Really? SJKZFJR

Posted by: alex35332 | January 25, 2010 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: chrislarry | January 25, 2010 4:37 PM | Report abuse

WIN

Posted by: alex35332 | January 25, 2010 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Also, just b/c they were obsolete doesn't mean they didn't sell ... on the decks of the rescue carrier, m/v Zcezcest.

Posted by: dcsween

gotta like that they named the carrier after me.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Yes Yes, 3-4 is good and all but I could've sworn hearing Allen/Shanahan stating they wanted to build the team around the talent/personnel already in place. This is the complete opposite of that statement. Maybe Allen/Shanahan should run for office.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | January 25, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

cL, I was steered RIGHT f-ing ON! www.hillcountryny.com I ate nearly three pounds of barbecued meat (I had two sides). We had seats at the bar right in front of the Ravens/Colts game on flat screen. A live alt country/rock band (CCR, Elvis) and UNCLE JUNIOR got up on stage and sang Me and Bobby McGee!

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Word, sween, word...sorry I was not able to escape domestic dooties that night.

Posted by: chrislarry | January 25, 2010 4:48 PM | Report abuse

yeah, i should have planned better ... but you did miss out on walking more than 90 blocks. f taxis and the subway.

On the topic of NYC, I think the Jets are going to be better than the Giants next year. Giants will continue to decline due to loss of defensive identity and leadership, plus aging on the O-line ... opposite of Jets.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Also, just b/c they were obsolete doesn't mean they didn't sell ... on the decks of the rescue carrier, m/v Zcezcest.

Posted by: dcsween

gotta like that they named the carrier after me.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse
-------------------------------

The implication that it can handle Redskins One is even more impressive

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Fletcher's OK with a 3-4 defense
January, 25, 2010
Jan 25
3:14
PM ET
Email Print Share
By Matt Mosley

Redskins defensive coordinator Jim Haslett has indicated that he might transition into a 3-4 defensive alignment instead of the 4-3 favored by his predecessor Greg Blache. During a conference call Monday to discuss his first Pro Bowl appearance, Skins linebacker London Fletcher said he didn't think the transition would be a problem.

"Our main defense was basically an under front that was similar, really, to what Dallas did ... the way we aligned our front," said Fletcher. "The only difference was instead having a stand-up outside linebacker, Andre Carter just had his hand on the ground. You can imagine him standing up, we're pretty much Dallas."

But I don't think it will be quite that simple for Fletcher and the Redskins. Brian Orakpo should be an excellent outside linebacker in a 3-4 but there's no guarantee that Carter makes an easy transition. And I think Fletcher may have the most difficult transition of any player for the Skins. In a 4-3, he could simply race to the football and make a ton of tackles. In a 3-4 scheme, he'll have to take on centers and guards that outweigh him by nearly 100 pounds on a regular basis.

Former Cowboys linebackers Dat Nguyen and Dexter Coakley were both smallish linebackers who tried to make the transition to Bill Parcells' favored 3-4. Coakley was soon playing for another team and Nguyen's career ended because of a neck injury. They had been highly effective players in Mike Zimmer's 4-3, but they were too small to excel in a 3-4 scheme.

Fletcher's an excellent linebacker, but I don't think he'll be as productive in a 3-4 scheme. The Redskins will start to look for larger inside linebackers in free agency and the draft.

Posted by: TWISI | January 25, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

yes really

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 25, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Also, just b/c they were obsolete doesn't mean they didn't sell ... on the decks of the rescue carrier, m/v Zcezcest.

Posted by: dcsween

gotta like that they named the carrier after me.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse
-------------------------------

The implication that it can handle Redskins One is even more impressive

Posted by: mattsoundworld

That'd be Redskins Chopper One

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 5:07 PM | Report abuse

omfg ... it's coming ...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/goingoutgurus/2009/06/on_the_horizon_hill_country_co.html?wprss=goingoutgurus

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Well, crap - sounds like lunch every day down here...

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | January 25, 2010 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Top 10 FA QBs
name/RFA or UFA/Years

QB 1 Jason Campbell RFA 5 6-5/228 Auburn Washington 4 stars
QB 2 Kyle Orton RFA 5 6-4/216 Purdue Denver 3 stars
QB 3 Chad Pennington UFA 10 6-3/225 Marshall Miami 3 stars
QB 4 Matt Moore RFA 3 6-3/202 Oregon State Carolina 3 stars
QB 5 J.P. Losman UFA 6 6-2/212 Tulane Oakland 3 stars
QB 6 A.J. Feeley UFA 8 6-3/220 Oregon Carolina 3 stars
QB 7 Kellen Clemens RFA 4 6-2/223 Oregon NY Jets 3 stars
QB 8 Chris Redman UFA 7 6-3/221 Louisville Atlanta 3 stars
QB 9 Tarvaris Jackson RFA 4 6-2/232 Alabama State Minnesota 3 stars
QB 10 Patrick Ramsey UFA 9 6-2/225 Tulane Tennessee 3 stars

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 5:24 PM | Report abuse

We should plan a slabingus when that sucker opens up.

Posted by: SMACK1 | January 25, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Top 25 FA OT

OT 1 Jammal Brown RFA 5 6-6/313 Oklahoma New Orleans
OT 2 Willie Colon RFA 4 6-3/315 Hofstra Pittsburgh
OT 3 Chad Clifton UFA 10 6-5/320 Tennessee Green Bay
OT 4 Marcus McNeill RFA 4 6-7/337 Auburn San Diego
OT 5 Jared Gaither RFA 3 6-9/330 Maryland Baltimore
OT 6 Alex Barron RFA 5 6-7/315 Florida State St. Louis
OT 7 Tyson Clabo RFA 5 6-6/314 Wake Forest Atlanta
OT 8 Charlie Johnson RFA 4 6-4/305 Oklahoma State Indianapolis
OT 9 Donald Penn RFA 4 6-5/305 Utah State Tampa Bay
OT 9 Jeremy Trueblood RFA 4 6-7/315 Boston College Tampa Bay
OT 10 Mike Gandy UFA 9 6-4/310 Notre Dame Arizona
OT 11 Tony Pashos UFA 7 6-6/326 Illinois San Francisco
OT 12 Mark Tauscher UFA 10 6-3/316 Wisconsin Green Bay
OT 13 Jeromey Clary RFA 3 6-6/305 Kansas State San Diego
OT 14 Stephon Heyer RFA 3 6-6/320 Maryland Washington
OT 15 Cornell Green UFA 10 6-6/315 UCF Oakland
OT 16 Levi Jones UFA 8 6-5/307 Arizona State Washington
OT 17 Langston Walker UFA 8 6-8/366 California Oakland
OT 18 Khalif Barnes RFA 5 6-5/325 Washington Oakland
OT 18 Damion McIntosh UFA 10 6-4/328 Kansas State Seattle
OT 19 Barry Sims UFA 11 6-5/300 Utah San Francisco
OT 20 Jermon Bushrod RFA 3 6-5/315 Towson New Orleans
OT 21 Artis Hicks UFA 8 6-4/335 Memphis Minnesota
OT 21 Jon Jansen UFA 10 6-6/297 Michigan Detroit
OT 22 Ryan Tucker UFA 13 6-6/318 TCU Cleveland
OT 23 Adam Terry RFA 5 6-8/330 Syracuse Baltimore
OT 24 Marshal Yanda RFA 3 6-3/310 Iowa Baltimore
OT 25 Guy Whimper UFA 3 6-5/305 East Carolina NY Giants

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Rub it in, JohnD, rub it in.

Unless we're talking about spice rub for a piece of meat to be smoked or otherwise prepared for the table... in which case I'm advised not to rub it in. Which doesn't really make sense... but I'm okay with that.

And hungry. I'm also hungry for BBQ.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 25, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

let me know when the Salt Lick branches out.

http://www.saltlickbbq.com/

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Nate, the Salt Lick ships :)

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

alright fellow hamsters, anybidy live in the OC? I'm moving to San Clemente, CA and need to know if there is a Skins bar in that area. HELP!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

I've stayed out of the 3-4 chatter for the most part but it seems to me there is some confusion about what this defense is in the modern NFL. Out of curiosity, does anyone actually know why teams switch to a 3-4 from a 4-3? (Hint, it is the same reason you see the Jets, Steelers and Ravens run junk formations occasionally).

Posted by: geotherm21 | January 25, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse

we run a 4-3, switching to 3-4 creates MORE glaring needs. We already have plenty of glaring needs. That is why I dont like the idea.

But I do defer to the coaches. If they can pull off the switch and still address O line, RB, and FS then cool.

I would say incorporate some 3-4 looks while keeping a 4-3 base would be good in year 1.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 25, 2010 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Nate, the Salt Lick ships :)

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 5:29 PM | Report abuse

You and your ships, sheesh.

Posted by: SMACK1 | January 25, 2010 5:45 PM | Report abuse

people still talk about McIntosh's injury and the guy hasnt missed a game in 2 years WTF

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 25, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

alright fellow hamsters, anybidy live in the OC? I'm moving to San Clemente, CA and need to know if there is a Skins bar in that area. HELP!

Posted by: scampbell1975

jeez, they barely have football down there. Norv-ball??

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 5:52 PM | Report abuse

people still talk about McIntosh's injury and the guy hasnt missed a game in 2 years WTF

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 25, 2010 5:47 PM

Its not an injury, its a genetic condition ... squeaky knees.

geotherm, my guess is "C. Confuse the offensive line and also the chip blocker." Final answer.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 5:55 PM | Report abuse

scampbell1975; Good luck finding a Skins bar out there. I lived in the LA area for a couple years. Don't recall ever running into a Skins fan there. Raiders & USC mostly. NFL Sunday Ticket on Directv was the only way I survived. In fact still do. After LA went to Salt Lake City (actually have run into some Skins fans there) for three years. Now I'm being relocated to Houston. Where ya at JohnD?

Posted by: msrent | January 25, 2010 5:56 PM | Report abuse

alright fellow hamsters, anybidy live in the OC? I'm moving to San Clemente, CA and need to know if there is a Skins bar in that area. HELP!

Posted by: scampbell1975

There's 2 closer to LA (about an hour away) that are great. Hollywood Billiards and Joxer Daly's.

Posted by: dcwun | January 25, 2010 5:58 PM | Report abuse

scampbell1975; Good luck finding a Skins bar out there. I lived in the LA area for a couple years. Don't recall ever running into a Skins fan there. Raiders & USC mostly. NFL Sunday Ticket on Directv was the only way I survived. In fact still do. After LA went to Salt Lake City (actually have run into some Skins fans there) for three years. Now I'm being relocated to Houston. Where ya at JohnD?

Posted by: msrent

That must have been a long time ago. When I'm in LA, Both of those spots get about 50-100 Skins fans every game.

Posted by: dcwun | January 25, 2010 6:01 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe Fletcher is on vacation. With a new coaching staff, and possible switch in defensive philosophies, you'd think Fletcher would be at the park trying to get the playbook and prove to them he's still a capable LB even at 35.

Posted by: TWISI

I'm sure Shanahan and Haslett are up nights worrying if Fletcher is any good. No vacation for Redskins until morale improves.

Posted by: TheCork | January 25, 2010 6:10 PM | Report abuse

dcwun; Never went to those places, maybe I should have. Where are they?

Posted by: msrent | January 25, 2010 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Either way Crittenton is a busta ass bama who had his feelings hurt in some form or fashion by Arenas. When he saw that he couldn't bait Arenas into real drama, he rolled and ratted on the dude Arenas.

Crittenton = b*tch made ass bama

Posted by: RedDMV |

Forget those guys,. We're just all impressed here with your own bad azz self and your tough guy posting.

Posted by: TheCork | January 25, 2010 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Thanks guys, I appreciate the knowledge.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Also, just b/c they were obsolete doesn't mean they didn't sell ... on the decks of the rescue carrier, m/v Zcezcest.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

roflmao

Posted by: frediefritz | January 25, 2010 6:19 PM | Report abuse

dcwun; Never went to those places, maybe I should have. Where are they?


Posted by: msrent

One is in Hollywood and the other is in Culver City, about 15 minutes from the airport.

Posted by: dcwun | January 25, 2010 6:21 PM | Report abuse

I just read the Ernest Byner, RB coach for Titans was fired. If he was so helpful good during his stint with the Skins and just had a 2000 yd RB with the Titans, maybe someone can relate to me why he cannot stay. Could he be wanting to move up the chain and they don't think he can do it?

Please enlighten me.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 25, 2010 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Top 15 OG

OG 1 Jahri Evans RFA 4 6-4/318 Bloomsburg of Pennsylvania New Orleans
OG 2 Logan Mankins RFA 5 6-4/305 Fresno State New England
OG 3 Chester Pitts UFA 8 6-3/320 San Diego State Houston
OG 4 Bobbie Williams UFA 10 6-4/345 Arkansas Cincinnati
OG 5 Stephen Neal UFA 8 6-4/305 California State-Bakersfield New England
OG 6 Harvey Dahl RFA 4 6-5/313 Nevada Atlanta
OG 7 Deuce Lutui RFA 4 6-4/338 USC Arizona
OG 8 David Baas RFA 5 6-4/331 Michigan San Francisco
OG 9 Eugene Amano UFA 5 6-3/310 Southeast Missouri State Tennessee
OG 10 Richie Incognito RFA 5 6-3/324 Nebraska Buffalo
OG 11 Keydrick Vincent UFA 9 6-5/325 Mississippi Carolina
OG 12 Chris Kuper RFA 4 6-4/303 North Dakota Denver
OG 13 Rob Sims RFA 4 6-3/320 Ohio State Seattle
OG 14 Jeremy Bridges UFA 6 6-4/326 Southern Miss Arizona
OG 15 Kendall Simmons UFA 8 6-3/315 Auburn New Engla

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 6:24 PM | Report abuse

The way I've looked we kind of did run a 3-4, just like Fletcher said. In a 3-4 you have two traditional linebackers (ILB's) two outside rushers (OLB's), two lineman in the 270+ weight range, and a very big D-Lineman. Last year we usually ran our 4-3 with two linebackers (Fletch and Rocky), two 3-4 DE types (Daniels and Griffin), one big DT (Haynesworth), and two outside rushers (Carter and Orakpo).

The main question though is weather Carter will be willing to give the 3-4 another go and if so will he be succesful this time. Also when it comes to Haynesworth we'll have to use him just like the Cowboys use Jay Ratliff, assuming they put Haynesworth at nose instead of DE. Keep in mind Ratliff had 6 sacks this year (albeit two against the Redskins) and played a one gap style.

Posted by: CapsXXVI | January 25, 2010 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Pretty close, dcsween.

The NFL game is now all about speed, even for teams that run the ball. The 3-4 basically exchanges a slow huge guy for a faster big guy in the box. This has some key advantages.

1. More zone blitz variations with better atheletes covering the short zone.
2. More speed in run support, reducing the number of big runs if a back gets past the line.

The zone blitz is about confusing the pass protection but running it out of a 3-4 almost always forces the offense to commit more players to protection than they need to. That gives the defense a numbers advantage in the zones and is why you see so many interceptions from 3-4 teams. Also the good 3-4 teams will still get quick pressure with just the 5 rushers because one of the inside backers will not blitz until the pass protecters commit to blocking someone, leaving an open lane somewhere.

You need your linebackers to be solid tacklers since they will get running backs one on one a lot, but the other guys should be getting there to help pretty quickly. You need safeties that can commit to run support, rush the passer or play the short zone like a linebacker.

When you have short yardage or power running situations you substitute in tackles for linebackers and play a 4-3 or 5-2 front, or variations of that.

Posted by: geotherm21 | January 25, 2010 6:36 PM | Report abuse

He's not All-Pro, but Pro Bowler.

All-Pro = Gold medal
Pro Bowler = Silver medal
Pro Bowl Alternate = Bronze medal

Still, it's a medal. Most guys don't get one.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 2:27 PM

You throw enough posts against the wall and one is bound to stick. The Pro Alternate Bowl is an absolute joke, but this is the perfect analogy.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

I just read the Ernest Byner, RB coach for Titans was fired. If he was so helpful good during his stint with the Skins and just had a 2000 yd RB with the Titans, maybe someone can relate to me why he cannot stay. Could he be wanting to move up the chain and they don't think he can do it?

Please enlighten me.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1

Wow!!! Johnson sets the NFL record for most yards from scrimmage by an RB ... and the RB coach is a problem?

Jeez Earnest, I wish you well, just not sure what it takes to keep a job these days

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 6:39 PM | Report abuse

He's not All-Pro, but Pro Bowler.

All-Pro = Gold medal
Pro Bowler = Silver medal
Pro Bowl Alternate = Bronze medal

Still, it's a medal. Most guys don't get one.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 2:27 PM

Still they hand them out to people all the time who don't deserve it. Michael Vick late in his career got elected on name alone. Marshall Faulk got elected one year after playing in only 11 games with a 3.9 ypc average, 200 receiving yards, and 800 rushsing yards. And don't even get me started on A.I. being elected as a starter to the NBA All-Star Game.

Posted by: CapsXXVI | January 25, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

I just read the Ernest Byner, RB coach for Titans was fired. If he was so helpful good during his stint with the Skins and just had a 2000 yd RB with the Titans, maybe someone can relate to me why he cannot stay. Could he be wanting to move up the chain and they don't think he can do it?

Please enlighten me.

Posted by: HPYTRKR1

Wow!!! Johnson sets the NFL record for most yards from scrimmage by an RB ... and the RB coach is a problem?

Jeez Earnest, I wish you well, just not sure what it takes to keep a job these days

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 25, 2010 6:39 PM

I bet the former Puget Sound RB Mike Oliphant is in some way responsible.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

P.S. Also the Skins did run an under front with Blatche as Fletch mentions, which means Daniels, Griffin and Haynesworth lined up and played two-gap and Carter got to rush, as did someone else, either Orakpo or a safety. So they essentially had a 4-3 defense with 3-4 principles.

Posted by: geotherm21 | January 25, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

scampbell1975; Good luck finding a Skins bar out there. I lived in the LA area for a couple years. Don't recall ever running into a Skins fan there. Raiders & USC mostly. NFL Sunday Ticket on Directv was the only way I survived. In fact still do. After LA went to Salt Lake City (actually have run into some Skins fans there) for three years. Now I'm being relocated to Houston. Where ya at JohnD?

Posted by: msrent
___________

I'm now in Houston, too. Unfortunately there aren't too many Skins fans here. Not unexpected. I usually don't hang out in the bars on Sunday afternoon, but I've never heard of a Skins bar around here. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist somewhere. I usually resort to catching the game on direct TV/NFL package if it's not on network.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | January 25, 2010 7:14 PM | Report abuse

Update on Byner: Fred Pole, Jaguars has been hired as new RB coach. By the way the Titans RB's, Johnson and White had 2001 rushing yards in 2008. Just wonder what the ceiling is for RB's to not get coaches fired (3000).

Posted by: HPYTRKR1 | January 25, 2010 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Pretty close, dcsween.

The NFL game is now all about speed, even for teams that run the ball. The 3-4 basically exchanges a slow huge guy for a faster big guy in the box. This has some key advantages.

1. More zone blitz variations with better atheletes covering the short zone.
2. More speed in run support, reducing the number of big runs if a back gets past the line.

The zone blitz is about confusing the pass protection but running it out of a 3-4 almost always forces the offense to commit more players to protection than they need to. That gives the defense a numbers advantage in the zones and is why you see so many interceptions from 3-4 teams. Also the good 3-4 teams will still get quick pressure with just the 5 rushers because one of the inside backers will not blitz until the pass protecters commit to blocking someone, leaving an open lane somewhere.

You need your linebackers to be solid tacklers since they will get running backs one on one a lot, but the other guys should be getting there to help pretty quickly. You need safeties that can commit to run support, rush the passer or play the short zone like a linebacker.

When you have short yardage or power running situations you substitute in tackles for linebackers and play a 4-3 or 5-2 front, or variations of that.


Posted by: geotherm21 | January 25, 2010 6:36 PM | Report abuse
-----------------------------

Not to rain on your analysis, but if you wiki the 3-4 defense, there are some well regarded people who say it's easier to staff a 3-4 nowadays (as opposed to being a superior platform)

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 7:16 PM | Report abuse

so run the same D, just call it something different?

Kinda like our WCO switch, brilliant

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 25, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

"Tyranny of Dull"

Nice CL. Made scrolling through this mess worth it.

Posted by: mack1 | January 25, 2010 7:23 PM | Report abuse

so run the same D, just call it something different?

Kinda like our WCO switch, brilliant

Posted by: pabrian2003 | January 25, 2010 7:22 PM | Report abuse

--------------------------------

Princess Consuela Banana Hammock!

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Matt - not sure why it would be raining on my parade. I have stayed out of that pointless argument over player acquisition or suitability to the defense because it didn't seem like a lot of the comments were based on experience or fact. My post is simply a generic one about the benefits of a 3-4 and the caveats.

Posted by: geotherm21 | January 25, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: geotherm21 | January 25, 2010 7:28 PM

Experience or fact need not apply. Everything I say is not only fact but comes with experience. I'm kind of a big deal.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 7:32 PM | Report abuse

LOL @Diesel.

Posted by: geotherm21 | January 25, 2010 7:38 PM | Report abuse

What are "experience" and "fact" anyway?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 25, 2010 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Matt - not sure why it would be raining on my parade. I have stayed out of that pointless argument over player acquisition or suitability to the defense because it didn't seem like a lot of the comments were based on experience or fact. My post is simply a generic one about the benefits of a 3-4 and the caveats.

Posted by: geotherm21 | January 25, 2010 7:28 PM | Report abuse
--------------------------------------

Good. I agree its subjective at best. Even analysts seem to trend toward bravado and sweeping '3-4 is the way to go right now' statements. I laugh. And so, apparently, do the Saints and Colts (both 4-3).

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

What are "experience" and "fact" anyway?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 25, 2010 7:44 PM

Imaginary words by people that are so 2008. You know it doesn’t take experience or fact to rule the masses.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Experience or fact need not apply. Everything I say is not only fact but comes with experience. I'm kind of a big deal.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 7:32 PM |

Are you also a friend of Bill W?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 7:58 PM | Report abuse

What are "experience" and "fact" anyway?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | January 25, 2010 7:44 PM

I wanna know more than anything else in the world, Ron.

Scamp, I travel out that way from time to time, when you movin out there? Maybe catch up for a game at some point.

USS Zcezcest, natch.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 25, 2010 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Are you also a friend of Bill W?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 7:58 PM

In my book that dude is a quitter. God hates quitters and something else.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 8:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm now in Houston, too. Unfortunately there aren't too many Skins fans here. Not unexpected. I usually don't hang out in the bars on Sunday afternoon, but I've never heard of a Skins bar around here. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist somewhere. I usually resort to catching the game on direct TV/NFL package if it's not on network.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | January 25, 2010 7:14 PM

I'm a bit old (over) for the bar scene. My wife & I watch the Sunday Ticket. What part of Houston are you in?

Posted by: msrent | January 25, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Can all the 3-4 detractors/haters/doubters please man the f*ck up now and step to the mic...

I mean, if Haslett and LFB thinks it can happen, then why can't it? These are two of the more respected defensive minds in football. It isn't like Jim Zorn told you it could work....

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 2:43 PM | Report abuse


Because it's going to take some time to drawn all the hate-venom out of the veins of some Skins fans.

Cats spent a good portion of last year hopping mad b/c our 4-3 defense was stagnant and passive and unimaginative.

Dude rolls in and talks about mixing it up with a 3-4.

For me, that's a breath of fresh air.

Other cats act like Haslett just cut a fart and the car windows are up.

I wonder what the pissers and moaners would like to see. They didn't like our 4-3 and they don't like the idea of a 3-4...so what's next? A 2-5?

Posted by: p1funk | January 25, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | January 25, 2010 8:22 PM

Not going to lie, I thought this was a Moe post until I read your name at the bottom.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | January 25, 2010 8:22 PM

Not going to lie, I thought this was a Moe post until I read your name at the bottom.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 8:38 PM | Report abuse


Yeah. I guess it's the whole "each sentence is a separate paragraph" thing. Not sure why I did it...no offense to Moe...

Posted by: p1funk | January 25, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Scamp, I travel out that way from time to time, when you movin out there? Maybe catch up for a game at some point.

USS Zcezcest, natch.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 25, 2010 8:00 PM |

We really just started the search. Hopefully inside of 6 months.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Cats spent a good portion of last year hopping mad b/c our 4-3 defense was stagnant and passive and unimaginative.

Dude rolls in and talks about mixing it up with a 3-4.

For me, that's a breath of fresh air.

Other cats act like Haslett just cut a fart and the car windows are up.

I wonder what the pissers and moaners would like to see. They didn't like our 4-3 and they don't like the idea of a 3-4...so what's next? A 2-5?


Posted by: p1funk | January 25, 2010 8:22 PM | Report abuse
-----------------------------------

No, this 3-4 crap started up before Haslet came to town. Shanahamsammich was was looking for coordinators, and all the board spewed was pontification of the 3-4. Then Haslett comes in and says, 'yeah, it's a possibility', and the backlash begins.

Me, personally, I don't care. As long as everyone realizes that the 3-4 is not going to magically make our farts smell like roses, I'm cool.

Why? I think we are a little thin at LB. Fletcher aint gettin any younger, and we just put a DE at LB. Not saying it's a bad move, I'm just saying we don't have people tripping over each other to fill 4 LB spots.

And the 3-4 NT is known as the most demanding position on the field, so... Haynesworth? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Somebody called this akin to bringing the WC to Washington, and I remember what Collinsworth wondered aloud during one of our prime time shellackings. What's our identity? Play Action Norv, Pound Em Marty, Spread um Spurrier, Run em Gibbs, and West Coast Jim? What is it?

On Defense, Bend Dont Break Robiskie? Execute the Fundamentals Lewis? Blitz their nipples Grilliams? Discipline Blache? What is it?

When you describe the consistently good teams of our era, you don't do it by alignment, you do it by philosophy.

Colts - 'We are gonna challenge your mental toughness'
Patriots - 'We are gonna challenge your mental toughness'
Steelers - 'We are gonna challenge your physical toughness'

What are we gonna do to our opponents? I want to know the identity (and would prefer it takes tradition into consideration), and know that that's our flag for the next 100 years.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 8:58 PM | Report abuse

@ scamp,

Why you moving from where you are now? Me, I only move for better welfare benefits, and I think California is on the brink of disaster. Won't be much for us freeloaders.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 9:01 PM | Report abuse

*I incorrectly put Robiskie as the DC. What was it back then? Ray Rhodes? Doesn't matter, Norv years weren't known for D.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 9:03 PM | Report abuse

@ scamp,

Why you moving from where you are now? Me, I only move for better welfare benefits, and I think California is on the brink of disaster. Won't be much for us freeloaders.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 9:01 PM |

I live in Dayton, Oh. Need I say more?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

How's the weight training program going for you?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | January 25, 2010 9:10 PM | Report abuse

I answered my own question: Mike "Vanilla" Nolan, 1997 - 1999

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 9:12 PM | Report abuse

We really just started the search. Hopefully inside of 6 months.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Word, best of luck. Given your current digs, I'm guessing you're really gonna like it there.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 25, 2010 9:13 PM | Report abuse

I live in Dayton, Oh. Need I say more?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 9:05 PM

Dayton is the home of the Wright Brothers and Goodyear Tires. I wouldn't live there -- welfare benefits suck.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse

We really just started the search. Hopefully inside of 6 months.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Word, best of luck. Given your current digs, I'm guessing you're really gonna like it there.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | January 25, 2010 9:13 PM

I lived in San Diego for a while so I'm somewhat familiar with the left coast, and yes, I'm looking forward to it. Thanks, maybe we'll run into each other once we make it.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Dayton is the home of the Wright Brothers and Goodyear Tires. I wouldn't live there -- welfare benefits suck.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 9:14 PM |

They're not the only thing that sucks here. And with all the dope fiends, crackheads, and homeless it's hard to tell that the welfare benefits suck. Hell, those guys are making more than working folk around here. Ain't too many working folk around here anymore.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Dayton is the home of the Wright Brothers and Goodyear Tires. I wouldn't live there -- welfare benefits suck.

Posted by: League-Source | January 25, 2010 9:14 PM | Report abuse
------------------------------

If that's your perspective, than you'd love Connecticut, where they don't consider it a city unless 50% of the prime real estate is Section 8.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 25, 2010 9:20 PM | Report abuse

Fuel for the Tebow debate from PFT:

Tebow has rough first day at Senior Bowl
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 25, 2010 7:53 PM ET
Already tired of Favre Watch 2010? Then can I interest you in a little Tebow Watch?

We pass along reviews of Tebow's first day at Senior Bowl practice with the knowledge that the buildup to the NFL Draft will be a long one, with many ups and downs for Tebow. Monday was a downer.

Lindsay Soto on NFL Network: Tebow fumbled the first snap from center, then botched roughly 5-6 more during the day. Tebow is used to playing out of shotgun.

Christ Mortensen on Twitter: "First impression from NFL folks on Tebow at Senior Bowl -- it is indeed going to be a challenging process for him."

Stephen Holder of the St. Petersburg Times: "I'm on the sideline at the Senior Bowl practice and let's just say Tim Tebow is not exactly lighting it up. Horrible mechanics and accuracy."

Tebow will get a chance to rebound in the next three days of practice on NFL Network; the next two practices are in full pads.

Posted by: lifelongfan | January 25, 2010 9:27 PM | Report abuse

"No, this 3-4 crap started up before Haslet came to town."

This is true.

But you should ask why some think a change in the redskin defensive scheme is long overdue as criticizing the change effort makes you sound like a cavemen lamenting a new use for fire.

The skins aren't a great turnover team.

And that's even more of an issue when you don't have a great return game or passing game that 'flips the field'.

Sacks and INTs create short fields and defensive touchdowns, and if your offense isn't any good, well, the end result a lot of time is a 4-12 season.

The idea is to tinker with the 4-3 scheme so an offense is presented with 'confusion' that might lead to INTs, sacks, and short fields.

Haslett might choose some creative method for using Landry, Orakpo, and Haynesworth that was limited by Blatche's 4-3 luv.

And most of us fell out of luv with that a long time ago.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 25, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Sup

Posted by: Vicc | January 25, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Just saw that Moe. It will be interesting to see how teachable he is.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: lifelongfan | January 25, 2010 9:27 PM

Great cut and post. But did they test his ablity to walk on water, because you will all see that's one of his strong suits.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Does any1 remember me posting about that stud Alabama MLB Rolando McClain. I've been trying to find it, but I'm not real computer savvy(i don't even own 1)-- or any kinda savvy for that matter; Is there a way to search your very own comment archive on this website?

N E way, that dude is a beast and should clearly be a top 10 pick. Fletcher is getting old.

Posted by: Vicc | January 25, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

MLB is like the QB of the defense.

Oh my lord is McClain da sh!t !

Posted by: Vicc | January 25, 2010 9:43 PM | Report abuse

Just my general knowledge of football leads me to believe the 4-3 defense has always produced the 'greatest defenses of all time'


However


the nfl has changed and recently 3-4 defenses have been very successful.

If Sean Taylor were still alive, I'd say run the 4-4. He could single-handedly cover the deep/center third.

sidenote: McClain is 6-4, 260lb range. He moves too well for someone that size. whoa!

Posted by: Vicc | January 25, 2010 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Diesel,
It appears to be on Wednesday.

Schedule
Mon., Jan. 25
2:45 p.m.-4:15 p.m. ET, North practice (Ladd-Peebles Stadium); South practice (Fairhope Stadium)
Tues., Jan. 26
9:30 a.m.-11 a.m., North practice
1:45 p.m.-3:15 p.m., South practice
Wed., Jan. 27
9:30 a.m.-11 a.m. ET, North practice
1:45 p.m.-3:15 p.m., South practice
4:00 p.m -4:30 p.m., Walking on Water Drill
Thurs., Jan. 28
9:30 a.m.-11 a.m. ET, North practice
1:45 p.m.-3:15 p.m., South practice
Fri., Jan. 29
9:30 a.m.-10:30 a.m. ET, North practice
10:30 a.m.-11:30 a.m., South practice
3:30-6:30 p.m. Coca-Cola Meet The Players (2 sessions – each 1 ½ hours)
Saturday, Jan. 30
Game Day, 4 p.m., ET kickoff (NFL Network HD)

Posted by: lifelongfan | January 25, 2010 9:51 PM | Report abuse

4:00 p.m -4:30 p.m., Walking on Water Drill
Posted by: lifelongfan | January 25, 2010 9:51 PM

And after this drill Jacksonville will draft Tebow #11 overall. If only we had Gibbs still they would have no choice but to trade up and grab him before we took him.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 10:00 PM | Report abuse

"Just my general knowledge of football leads me to believe the 4-3 defense has always produced the 'greatest defenses of all time..."

I understand your thinking.

But remember that the shot gun was once a common football formation, went out of style, and then came back as a gimmick that the likes of B Walsh frowned upon.

But today, I bet Walsh would see Manning and Brees in the 'spread' and re-think the idea that the best NFL offenses have the q-back under center.

My point: you have to roll with the trends when they make sense.

Skins' fans don't know Haslett as a coach, but you have to think he can see a future in Orakpo, Jarmon, Landry, Horton, Haynesworth, and McIntosh that escaped Blatche.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 25, 2010 10:13 PM | Report abuse

"Does any1 remember me posting about that stud Alabama MLB Rolando McClain."

McClain shut down Tebow in the SEC Championship game.

The guy is Fred Davis playing middle linebacker.

Which means he might have a future like B Urlacher or P Willis.

But the skins don't need a linebacker in round 1.

And that's where McClain will be when he's taken.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 25, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

LoL @ Diesel444--Yeaaa, Joe Gibbs woulda licked Tim Tebow's sac. *chuckle*


`


MistaMoe,

wasn't the Shot-Gun Formation created b/c of Lawrence Taylor?

Posted by: Vicc | January 25, 2010 10:20 PM | Report abuse

I know WR is low on this list of needs. However, if this guy is there late round 4, the skins should grab him, and use him on special teams. He's expected to runin the 4.3sat the combine.

• North team -- Ohio WR Taylor Price has been the star of practice so far today. He's a legitimate vertical threat who is catching everything thrown in his direction.

Posted by: TWISI | January 25, 2010 10:24 PM | Report abuse

"Other players the Jets will have to make decisions on in the offseason include running backs Thomas Jones and Leon Washington, fullback Tony Richardson, kicker Jay Feely, cornerback Lito Sheppard, quarterback Kellen Clemens and wide receiver Brad Smith."


Former Criminole L Washington a redskin?

He's quick, fast, and in a hurry to get paid in a way the jets won't.

The jets might rationalize they made their playoff run while Washington was on IR, and let him go in order to keep other players.

It sure would be nice to have a guy with Bush-Harvin-Cribbs-Sproles like speed in burgandy 'n gold.

The Madden GM says this guy, Leon Washington, might make a nice FA addition, especially if the likes of Betts, Cartwright, Ganther, and Mason don't satisfy Shanny.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 25, 2010 10:25 PM | Report abuse

But the skins don't need a linebacker in round 1.

And that's where McClain will be when he's taken.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 25, 2010 10:18 PM

No doubt McClain goes in the top 10 just like Spiller goes in the top 15 and McCluster goes in the top 35.

All would be nice to have but not a necessity like Okung @ 4. McClain was superman’s(Tebow) kryptonite just like McClain will be the next great MLB in the mold of Willis and Spiller in the mold of Chris Johnson. Too many needs and not enough draft picks, better to draft the next Chris Samuels.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 10:33 PM | Report abuse

"...wasn't the Shot-Gun Formation created b/c of Lawrence Taylor?"

LT caused St Joe to create the 'heavy jumbo' tight end formation.

Too, 'max protection' is all the result of LTs and the mania he created whenever he wasn't being a snow bunny.

The shot gun is an old thing re-made new.

I'm not a football historian, but I do know the shot gun is an old formation that went out of style to where it wasn't used in the '60s.

Teams would 'jump pass' and 'quick kick' from it back in the day.

Look at some old tape of Roger Stabauch from the '70s, and you'll see him in the shot gun.

Tom Landry used it a lot with Stabauch and D White in the '70s--the 'boys would shift into it with the q-back moving back to receive the ball (anyone remeber J Fitzgerald, the old cowboys' center?).

People like B Walsh and Gibbs hated it, but D Fouts, Favre, Marino, Kelly, and of course P Manning have a lot of passing yards from it.

That ends today's lesson.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 25, 2010 10:39 PM | Report abuse

...and then MistaMoe said "The Madden GM says this guy, Leon Washington, might make a nice FA addition..."


Very Slick

AND

Intriguing

except, there is something left to be desired with L...

`

"Too many needs and not enough draft picks, better to draft the next Chris Samuels." - Diesel44

Have to agree.

If not at the very least to get every1 to shut the Ef ^.


Posted by: Vicc | January 25, 2010 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Damn i said 4-4,

that style of defense is better known 2day as the 4-6; but it's beginning to phase out.

Not too many Sean Taylors come around.

Posted by: Vicc | January 25, 2010 10:50 PM | Report abuse

"All would be nice to have but not a necessity like Okung @ 4."


I'd like to get guys like McClain or Spiller or Okung in one draft.

But in the real world, all you ever get is what the rules allow.

So with many high quality juniors leaving college early to beat a possible rookie wage scale, you have to consider that guys like this dream 3 will be in the form of unpolished gems in the middle rounds.

Guys who'd be top 15 guys in '11, will be 2nd and 3rd rounder this go round, meaning getting more picks is a must.

Think the Niners with two 1st rounders: they could trade them both away and collect a slew of mid-round slots to build depth.

The skins must finds a way to get more picks so it can take advantage of the sudden talent influx scouts claim is headed the league's way.

The rules are the rules.

Hopefully, Bruce Allen can break them in a way where we get more picks and players than the present situation will allow.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 25, 2010 10:51 PM | Report abuse

"Think the Niners with two 1st rounders: they could trade them both away and collect a slew of mid-round slots to build depth."

OR

trade them to the Redskins for J. Campbell and the No.4 pick, 1st round.

They could select C.J. Spiller.

We could select _______ and _______. (fill in the blanks)

Posted by: Vicc | January 25, 2010 11:04 PM | Report abuse

CapsXXVI, I think Haynesworth would be a natural DE in a 3-4 and could play however he wanted. A ton of his sacks came either when Orakpo blocked down with Haynesworth stunting around to the outside ... or just lining up on the outside. As long as there is an LB to seal off the outside, Hayneworth could go nuts (and would) as a sack machine as a 3-4 DE.

Posted by: dcsween | January 25, 2010 3:09 PM |

A ton of "his" sacks? You mean all 4.0? Haynesworth could go nuts? What would he do those 4 games he decided not to play!? Brilliant, absolutely brilliant! Keep up the stellar analysis, er, nonsense.

Posted by: tony11 | January 25, 2010 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Other cats act like Haslett just cut a fart and the car windows are up.

Posted by: p1funk | January 25, 2010 8:22 PM |

That brings back bad memories. I did something my boss didn't like so when we had to go to an offsite meeting he invited me to go with and I couldn't say no. Needless to say the trip was like what you describe. He kept the windows rolled up, locked them down and proceeded to pass gas like a champ.

Posted by: ElDrano | January 25, 2010 11:30 PM | Report abuse

Whatever defense they run - please let it have some creativity. They don't plan on playing Haynesworth at nose tackle do they?

Posted by: coparker5 | January 25, 2010 11:31 PM | Report abuse

alright fellow hamsters, anybidy live in the OC? I'm moving to San Clemente, CA and need to know if there is a Skins bar in that area. HELP!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | January 25, 2010 5:36 PM | Report abuse


I can help Scamp..I live in the OC..hit me up at pmedvene33@hotmail.com

Posted by: ocskins | January 25, 2010 11:34 PM | Report abuse

The skins must finds a way to get more picks so it can take advantage of the sudden talent influx scouts claim is headed the league's way.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 25, 2010 10:51 PM |

Super post dude.

Signed,

Martin Grammatica

Posted by: ElDrano | January 25, 2010 11:36 PM | Report abuse

Heard of orange flavored. Never heard of red flavored.

Posted by: ElDrano

The "red" kool-aid is a "urban" thing... For some reason "folks" call cherry kool-aid "red".

Posted by: RedDMV | January 25, 2010 3:19 PM |

Proposed Kool-Aid color/taste chart:

1. Red/Cherry
2. Orange/Orange
3. Yellow/Lemon
4. Blue/Grape
5. White/Milk
6. Black/Ink
7. Brown/Poop

Posted by: ElDrano | January 25, 2010 11:48 PM | Report abuse

People like B Walsh and Gibbs hated it, but D Fouts, Favre, Marino, Kelly, and of course P Manning have a lot of passing yards from it.

That ends today's lesson.

Posted by: MistaMoe

My theory is that teams adjust to the times. One team will do something different, and since no other team does anything like it, the defenses don't adjust very well.

Shotgun, West Coast Offense and Wildcat are all examples of this. The first teams to run them did well.

Over time, other offenses adopt these approaches. So defenses see them more often. Take the wildcat. Only Miami has really made a science of it and built their team around it. Everyone else uses it as a novelty.

Even though Miami has run the offense for 2 years, roughly 1/2 the league hasn't faced them. Why master a defense to stop the wildcat when you see it for a only dozen plays a year?

If 20 teams run the wildcat, then everyone will spend time to learn how to defend it.

The west coast offense is closing in on 30 years old, and by now, every defensive coach in football has figured it out has ideas on how to stop it. Unless you have great athletes or some new wrinkle with it, the WCO is vanilla.

Rule changes also drive changes in the way defenses adapt. Having 5 and 6 DBs were adaptations to the NFL being so friendly to the pass game.

In any case, the 3-4 was designed to have more speed, more flexibility and cover more of the field. Having 8 players in coverage helped to address the short quick passes that were designed to neutralize aggressive pass rushes.

Whether a 3-4 is appropriate has as much to do with the offenses the Skins will face as it does with our personnel. In the NFC East, I think a 4-3 is still the way to go. But its not as cut and dry as it was a few seasons back.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 26, 2010 12:28 AM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-6Tn0Ie-AQ

This is always good viewing, LOLOLOL

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 26, 2010 1:41 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps we should start feeding Mike Williams agains and get him up to 500 pounds. That way we could run a 1-6 defense. Just lay BMW sideways and let him roll towards the offensive line! The carnage would be devastating! Imagine six pass rushers charging over the crumpled, broken bodies of their opposition to destroy the QB and RB! After the game we could load BMW on a flat bed truck and take him back to Redskins Park.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 26, 2010 8:08 AM | Report abuse

Proposed Kool-Aid color/taste chart:

1. Red/Cherry
2. Orange/Orange
3. Yellow/Lemon
4. Blue/Grape
5. White/Milk
6. Black/Ink
7. Brown/Poop


Drano gets the early morning cookie for humor.

This is massively funny.

(INSERT image of moe sipping at his brown-colored, corn filled steaming cup of poop kool-aid.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

ciron black

vladimir ducasse

keep an eye on these 2 cats....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

"In the NFC East, I think a 4-3 is still the way to go. But its not as cut and dry as it was a few seasons back."



We've run a 4-3 in the NFC Est the past two seasons to no great success.

Why would you keep doing what's not working?

And it's not the personnel, but how it's used.

We got guys who'd make great blitzers and are athletic enough to do more than one thing down after down.

A hybrid 4-3 look would give Haslett the flexibility to create looks that allow players like Orakpo, Haynesworth, Carter, and Landry to maximize their skill level.

But to make it work, the team will need stellar corner/safety play.

And if this componet is not added, then you make the argument about not changing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Whether a 3-4 is appropriate has as much to do with the offenses the Skins will face as it does with our personnel. In the NFC East, I think a 4-3 is still the way to go. But its not as cut and dry as it was a few seasons back.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 26, 2010 12:28 AM
-----------------------------------------
Well written post, as always. I actually agree with everything you said in it, which is a rarity for me.

As to the 3-4's chances in the NFC East, I think you almost have to do it the Dallas way, with linebackers that look more like defensive ends. If you come at Brandon Jacobs or Jason Witten with a bunch of 235 pound backers, you might find a few grease spots on the turf by the time the game is over. This gets back to an earlier discussion about the type of players needed. I think Fletcher could do okay in the 3-4 but I am not so sure about McIntosh. I could see Chris Wilson and Orakpo anchoring the ends with Fletcher sharing the middle with HB Blades or Henson - if he continues to develop. I believe that the Redskins have some players that just won't fit into the 3-4 and it will be very interesting to see what they do about that.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 8:27 AM | Report abuse

BG here's a review of Ciron Black after the 1st practice:

LSU OT Ciron Black -- Black appeared heavy-footed and was slow coming out of his stance. He struggled with lateral movement, had trouble with reach blocks when trying to hook the edge and was not fluid in space when trying to get to the second level. His lack of athletic ability was exposed during one-on-one drills when Auburn OLB Antonio Coleman used an outside-in double move and Black was unable to reset his feet and recover in time to prevent Coleman from turning the corner. Black looked top-heavy at the weigh-in and the questions about his overall athleticism have only been magnified.

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse

twis, thanks, where is that from?? Walter football wrote that he looked good at the weigh in, carried his weight well, etc.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

twisi

"C. Black looked top-heavy at the weigh-in and the questions about his overall athleticism have only been magnified."


Again, he's a second round right tackle, not a 1st or 2nd round left tackle.

Plus, he's not the kind of dude Shanny wants as his line play values athleticism over bulk.

Iupati is the guy we need as he can play multiple spots.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Heard of orange flavored. Never heard of red flavored.

Posted by: ElDrano


Red flavored? Sounds like a flavor only Mrs. Red would like. How's that made anyway? Perhaps the tea bag method? Uh, I think I'll stick to orange.

Posted by: HTTR | January 26, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

BG that was from ESPN scouts.

Mista - agreed 100% on Iupati. The question is will he be there in the 2nd round, of will he go to a team in the late 1st.

As far the 3-4 goes. I went back and looked at some Broncos games in 2008. That year the Broncos defense played both 3-4 and 4-3 fronts during games. COuld be what Shanny wants to do here as well.

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

"I could see Chris Wilson and Orakpo anchoring the ends with Fletcher sharing the middle with HB Blades or Henson - if he continues to develop."


You'd have to sacrifice both Blades and Wilson to bring in two big 'backers who can cover and run to make a 3-4.

And again, the players are out there.

Wilson's case is so sad as had the team thought to use him in the manner it used Orakpo a season ago, we'd see some other value in him.

For now, he's a guy with no true position.

Replace both him and Blades with pure linebackers.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse


You'd have to sacrifice both Blades and Wilson to bring in two big 'backers who can cover and run to make a 3-4.

And again, the players are out there.

Wilson's case is so sad as had the team thought to use him in the manner it used Orakpo a season ago, we'd see some other value in him.

For now, he's a guy with no true position.

Replace both him and Blades with pure linebackers.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 8:43 AM
------------------------------------------
Ahh yes, here is the true pain in converting to a 3-4. There are players on the team that have just done everything asked of them - true brown baggers - that just don't have a place in a 3-4. I raised some debate yesterday when I said Jarmin might not fit. McIntosh, Blades, and Wilson might be other guys on the bubble. If this team gets its hands on a few linebackers through free agency, the pink slips might really be painful to see.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 8:54 AM | Report abuse

From CNNSI this morning:

Sliders
Terrence Cody/DT/Alabama: Cody looked poorly conditioned on Monday, tipping the scales at a sloppy 370 pounds. During practice he quickly tired and struggled to keep pace with the rest of the linemen. He was pushed to the ground and handled by lesser opponents on a number of occasions.

Selvish Capers/T/West Virginia: Capers struggled from the get-go. He was beaten around the corner by speed rushers or pushed back off the line by power opponents. All too often Capers was left to pull himself off the field after being pushed to the ground by opponents.

Alabama G Mike Johnson got a good review.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 26, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

I'm a bit old (over) for the bar scene. My wife & I watch the Sunday Ticket. What part of Houston are you in?

Posted by: msrent | January 25, 2010 8:07 PM | Report abuse
____________________

South - Clear Lake area.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | January 26, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse


We've run a 4-3 in the NFC Est the past two seasons to no great success.

Why would you keep doing what's not working?

And it's not the personnel, but how it's used.

We got guys who'd make great blitzers and are athletic enough to do more than one thing down after down.

A hybrid 4-3 look would give Haslett the flexibility to create looks that allow players like Orakpo, Haynesworth, Carter, and Landry to maximize their skill level.

But to make it work, the team will need stellar corner/safety play.

And if this componet is not added, then you make the argument about not changing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse
-------------------------------

I don't follow how not adopting the 3-4 is not changing. Blache did not preach Tampa 2, Zone Dogs, or other blitz packages. He preached discipline and containment.

The 2000 Ravens had great success with that. Helped that they had Sam Adams, Tony Siragusa, Micheal McCrary, Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, Chris McCallister, and Rod Woodson, though. Which leads me to my point: Baltimore has drafted and operated to build an imposing D and a power running game to protect it. So whether they have a 4-3, 3-4, 4-6, or 3-3-5, or whatever, you know the Ravens are committed to their D, and they are going to stock it with a certain type of talent.

Since 2000, they have 6 post season appearances, 8-5 postseason record, and a ring. Compare that to our 2 post season appearances and paltry 1-2 post season record. While Baltimore was focused on power running and D, we were switching around from power to spread to power to west coast on O, and simply signing the flavor of the month on D.

So I don't care what the defensive alignment is. I want Danny Boy to step up and say, 'X is our identity. X is how I want to win. X is how we are gonna draft, and X is how we are gonna coach.'

Anything short of that, and it's just Redskins Offseason.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 26, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

So I don't care what the defensive alignment is. I want Danny Boy to step up and say, 'X is our identity. X is how I want to win. X is how we are gonna draft, and X is how we are gonna coach.'

Posted by: mattsoundworld

I don't want Snyder to say anything but only a few things:

"You think this is a good fit? Alright, cool."

"How much money does he want?"

"What? Hell no! Tell him to go f__k off." or "Alright, where do I sign?"

Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

So I don't care what the defensive alignment is. I want Danny Boy to step up and say, 'X is our identity. X is how I want to win. X is how we are gonna draft, and X is how we are gonna coach.'

Anything short of that, and it's just Redskins Offseason.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 26, 2010 9:08 AM
And that "identity" will be formed by Shanny and Haslet. Two True NFL minds with a reputation of discipline and attitude. Our identity will no longer be that of come here for the snyder chedder, but that of the NEW regime! I think we'll be known for our solid defense with an improved offense in the works. Afterall we did get the best available coach.

Posted by: sthai75 | January 26, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Anything short of that, and it's just Redskins Offseason.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 26, 2010 9:08 AM

If Snyder is leading the football operations, what has changed? Shanny and Allen will lead the organization and build the team. Snyder's role is to give them the resources to succeed in that plan, cash, facilities, etc.

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps we should start feeding Mike Williams agains and get him up to 500 pounds. That way we could run a 1-6 defense. Just lay BMW sideways and let him roll towards the offensive line! The carnage would be devastating! Imagine six pass rushers charging over the crumpled, broken bodies of their opposition to destroy the QB and RB! After the game we could load BMW on a flat bed truck and take him back to Redskins Park.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | January 26, 2010 8:08 AM | Report abuse
This is not as crazy as it seems. I'm not talking about the 500# comment, but with our personnel, going to a 3-4, or a hybrid 4-3, what we are missing on the roster is a nose tackle. DHaynie is better fit to be DE, Monty doesn't have the motor, Griff is getting to be too old to hold up, Golston isn't big enough.

BMW doesn't have the feet to play OT, is just OK at OG. But with his size and strenght, could he dominate 2 players at NT? Just thinking outside the box.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

"There are players on the team that have just done everything asked of them - true brown baggers - that just don't have a place in a 3-4"


This was one of the most obvious issues related to the previous management: it drafted or brought in low round guys who developed as players, but never got on the field or could get paid.

I hate to remind, y'all, but that A Pierce, R Clark, and D Evans' big complaint.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

As long as Jason Campbell remains the starting qb on this team, it doesn't matter what kind of defense is in place.

Posted by: theBozyn1 | January 26, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Selvish Capers/T/West Virginia: Capers struggled from the get-go. He was beaten around the corner by speed rushers or pushed back off the line by power opponents. All too often Capers was left to pull himself off the field after being pushed to the ground by opponents.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 26, 2010 8:58 AM
-----------------------------------------
Sorry to hear that about Capers. He's one of those guys that I thought would fit well in Shanny's zone blocking scheme. I hope he redeems himself in the game.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

You'd have to sacrifice both Blades and Wilson to bring in two big 'backers who can cover and run to make a 3-4.

And again, the players are out there.

Wilson's case is so sad as had the team thought to use him in the manner it used Orakpo a season ago, we'd see some other value in him.

For now, he's a guy with no true position.

Replace both him and Blades with pure linebackers.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse
Not sure I follow this Moe. Why isn't Blades LFletch's backup? ANd same with Wilson for Orakps? And use both on teams.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

BMW doesn't have the feet to play OT, is just OK at OG. But with his size and strenght, could he dominate 2 players at NT? Just thinking outside the box.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 9:31 AM
-----------------------------------------
God, no. Just call the BMW experiment an education in weight loss tactics, and let him go. He has slow feet, is injury prone and the same things that make him a bad offensive tackle will also make him a bad defensive tackle.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how a guy coming into the draft shows up at something like the senior bowl out of shape?? Thats just galactically stupid to me...its not like once the season ended they were going to class or anything.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Heard of orange flavored. Never heard of red flavored.

Posted by: ElDrano

Red flavored? Sounds like a flavor only Mrs. Red would like. How's that made anyway? Perhaps the tea bag method? Uh, I think I'll stick to orange.

Posted by: HTTR | January 26, 2010 8:42 AM |

For a dud who loves to administer tongue lashings the tea bag method would be highly appealing.

Posted by: BlackBagOps | January 26, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how a guy coming into the draft shows up at something like the senior bowl out of shape?? Thats just galactically stupid to me...its not like once the season ended they were going to class or anything.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse
It does say something about commitment, doesn't it?

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how a guy coming into the draft shows up at something like the senior bowl out of shape?? Thats just galactically stupid to me...its not like once the season ended they were going to class or anything.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 9:43 AM

No doubt. How in the heck did Alabama dominate the LOS with a bunch of overweight and out of shape offensive and defensive linemen?

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how a guy coming into the draft shows up at something like the senior bowl out of shape?? Thats just galactically stupid to me...its not like once the season ended they were going to class or anything.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 9:43 AM |

It's called the Andre Smith syndrome. It happens a lot in Bama land.

Posted by: BlackBagOps | January 26, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

As long as Jason Campbell remains the starting qb on this team, it doesn't matter what kind of defense is in place.

Posted by: theBozyn1 | January 26, 2010 9:39 AM
------------------------------------------
Hey, don't slam on Campbell! He has made the players around him look like superstars. Take Osi Umeniyora, for instance. He made him look like a star pass rusher. He got two sacks on Campbell, forced a fumble that he returned for a touchdown. Campbell made him a better player. Or maybe Aqib Talib. He got three interceptions off of Campbell making him look like a superstar.

Jason Campbell: making defensive superstars since 2005...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

BMW doesn't have the feet to play OT, is just OK at OG. But with his size and strenght, could he dominate 2 players at NT? Just thinking outside the box.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 9:31 AM


I probably shouldn't even dignify this with an answer, but what the hell...NT aren't just guys who are massive and put their hands up and growl at you like Godzilla. There's an actual skill to it, otherwise an undersized guy like Ratliff in Dallas or Kelly Gregg in Baltimore wouldn't be as good as they are. So it stands to reason that if MW can't play the position he's played his entire career, he's not gonna roll out of bed and pick up the nuances of playing NT on the fly.

As I understand it, Casey Hampton from Pittsburgh is about 50/50 to stay there...if he comes available, there's your solution. But my real hope is that this team doesn't get so preoccupied with defense that the offense is completely overlooked again. Considering, you know, offense has been the problem here for about 10 years running.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 26, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Our identity will no longer be that of come here for the snyder chedder, but that of the NEW regime!

Posted by: sthai75 | January 26, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse
--------------------------------

Just like we did with Shottenheimer, uh Spurrier, I mean Gibbs, well Zorn, er Shanahan, but Shanahans replacement will lead us to the promised land!

The consistent contenders of the modern NFL have year in year out identity regardless of who is coaching or calling plays.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 26, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure how a guy coming into the draft shows up at something like the senior bowl out of shape?? Thats just galactically stupid to me...its not like once the season ended they were going to class or anything.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 9:43 AM

No doubt. How in the heck did Alabama dominate the LOS with a bunch of overweight and out of shape offensive and defensive linemen?

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 9:49 AM
------------------------------------------
There's something about going cold turkey from the steroids, amphetamines and HGH that just kills motivation. Darn that NFL and their drug tests...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

How in the heck did Alabama dominate the LOS with a bunch of overweight and out of shape offensive and defensive linemen?

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 9:49 AM

It's called the Andre Smith syndrome. It happens a lot in Bama land.

Posted by: BlackBagOps | January 26, 2010 9:49 AM

###################################################

Gotta believe that a real Bama like RedDMV tips the scale at 365+ and doesn't have the strenght to lift his own dick, which he's described -- as I recall -- as "a Scud missile" or "a Dud missile."

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 9:58 AM | Report abuse

The consistent contenders of the modern NFL have year in year out identity regardless of who is coaching or calling plays.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 26, 2010 9:53 AM


Amen.

But you have to like our chances of having that with Bruce Allen in the FO rather than Kindergarten Ninja.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 26, 2010 9:58 AM | Report abuse

God hates quitters and something else.

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 25, 2010 8:01 PM

Waiting in line at the Post Office. God hates quitters and waiting in line at the Post Office.

Maybe 4 sacks isn't that much for DT who didn't play 16 games, but Haynesworth made plenty of stops for losses (backfield tackles of rushers) from the outside.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 26, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Zorn hopes to be coaching soon

Posted by Danny O'Neil


Does Jim Zorn have plans for next year?

You bet. He's got a whole lot of plans. He's just looking for a job that will allow him to put those game plans to action.

"I'm planning on coaching, absolutely," Zorn said.

.............................

So does Zorn have anything imminent in that regard?

"There's been a few things, but as the talk happens, there's got to be some reality in the talk and nothing has really become real yet."

So with his history in Seattle first as a player and then as quarterbacks coach, would that be a possibility?

Zorn deferred on answering that, saying the Seahawks would have to be asked. ...............

As for Zorn's two-year tenure in Washington?

"I just take a lot of pride not so much in the record," Zorn said. "I don't take pride in the record, but I do take pride in the idea that we were growing. Progressing. We had some misfortune. I think it was explainable, but all the explanations look like excuses so the bottom line is you end up feeling like you did less than you set out to do.

"But I do feel proud of all the things we did accomplish. Our staff worked hard, and we put together a pretty good program, but it was obviously going to take longer than it was willing to take."


---------------------------------

(4th's note - 'it' is Dan Snyder)

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 26, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

"Why isn't Blades L Fletch's backup? And same with Wilson for Orakpos? And use both on teams."

Imagine if you blitz the outside 'backer ina 3-4, and leave your inside 'backer playside to cover a checkdown back or big tight end.

Is Blades the proper matchup for such a player?

I dunno.

Is Wilson athletic enough to 'flip' from 'backer' to 'blitzer' to 'cover guy'?

I dunno.

But I do know that I mean that the team would have to upgrade at the linebacker spot in some way or a clever offensive coordinator will find a way to expose a 2nd or 3rd tier guy.

We need an linebacker upgrade in terms of overall athleticism is what I mean.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

God hates ... waiting in line at the Post Office.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 10:03 AM

God never even stands in line at the post office, and that's not because he hates it. He's got his own mail service and everything was Special Delivery but is now Internet.

If God really hated waiting in line at the PO, he wouldn't have made so much of it. It has a message. It's his special way of saying "Believe. Pray. Drop off a bigger offering this Sunday." (Or, Friday or Saturday).

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Still seems like Zoron is still in Egypt.

...land of...

...maps...

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 26, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawksblog/2010890149_zorn_hopes_to_b.html?syndication=rss

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 26, 2010 10:07 AM |

Hopefully Z saved enough of Dan's $$$ so he can retire to a leisurely life of mountain biking. 4-12 and being stripped of playcalling is a pretty strong repudiation of anyone's coaching skills.

Posted by: BlackBagOps | January 26, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Good find, 4th. Not enough ex-Redskins posts up here for my tastes and this helps. Especially loved this quote:

"There's been a few things, but as the talk happens, there's got to be some reality in the talk and nothing has really become real yet."

So Zorn. It sort of sounds like some of those Yogi Berra quotes but without the humor and the irony. Jeez, I haven't started to miss Zorn yet.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

does holmgren come off as somewhat of a hypocrite in not hiring JZ?? I mean, MH was so upset at the treatment JZ recieved from the Redskins, and all.....certainly Holmgren would JUMP at the opportunity to get JZ on the Browns staff.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

If I ever miss Zorn, it'll be time to switch teams!

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 26, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

does holmgren come off as somewhat of a hypocrite in not hiring JZ??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 10:22 AM

No. He's doing what he should do -- letting the HC pick his assistants.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

The Zorn period is much like the Giants' Handley period: everyone would just like to move away from that steaming pile of dookie and forget about it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Good point, Greg. But I've never trusted Holmgren, guy always looks like he's up to something devious...

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 26, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 10:12 AM

IMO I think Wilson is athletic enough. I recall the last Cowboys game this year, where they try to run a reverse his side. Wilson was able to change directions in a blink, and chased down the player. As for Blades I'm not sure he can play in the 3-4.

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

btw, that 'Giants Fan' UTub was EPIC! thx!

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 26, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I think the Zorn part is BS......Wasn't Al Saunders on the Ravens last year? Is this a low for him???

Ravens line up candidates to replace Jackson
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 26, 2010 10:17 AM ET
Finding a coordinator for Jay Cutler is hard.

Finding a quarterbacks coach for Joe Flacco, not so much.

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports that the Ravens already have two candidates to replace Hue Jackson, who is headed to Oakland.

They will interview Al Saunders, who is already on staff, and former Redskins head coach Jim Zorn.

Zorn is still getting paid by the Redskins, but this would allow him to get back into coaching without having to uproot his family. The money Zorn would make in Baltimore would be deducted from what the Redskins owe him.

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 26, 2010 10:28 AM | Report abuse

twisi

"...IMO I think Wilson is athletic enough..."


Again, what sucks is that the team should've converted him from de to olb when they signed him.

Had they made the switch early on, they might have found themselves a J Harrison-lite 'backer.

This would've obviated the need to draft Orakpo.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

I think the Zorn part is BS......Wasn't Al Saunders on the Ravens last year? Is this a low for him???

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 26, 2010 10:28 AM


No, the Ravens OC is Cam Cameron. I'm pretty sure Al Saunders is still in St. Louis.

But having Zorn as a QB coach isn't bad. You just don't want him anywhere near the HC or the play calling responsibilities.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 26, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe the Ravens would consider Zorn. First off they saw our offense last year, rolled it up and smoked it. Secondly, Zorn is a west coast guy and they are a power run play action team, Saunders is a perfect fit Zorn couldn't be worse for them and for Flacco who is a lot like Campbell, big arm play action not west coast suited.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Wow - I would love to rub it in to my Ravs Fan friends when Zoron screws up their team, too!

hahahahahaha

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 26, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

As for Jim Zorn's future, say hello to the new head coach of the UFL's latest expansion team the Portland Mediums.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 26, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

BW - HE was on the Ravens staff last year as an assistant.....Saunders stock collapsed like Six Flag's after being touched by Snyder....

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 26, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

I'm pretty sure Al Saunders is still in St. Louis.

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 26, 2010 10:33 AM |

Al was given the heave-ho when Spags tool over. Balt's staff:

Offensive Coaches

Offensive Coordinator – Cam Cameron
Offensive Consultant - Al Saunders
Quarterbacks – Vacant
Running Backs – Wilbert Montgomery
Wide Receivers – Jim Hostler
Tight Ends – Wade Harman
Offensive Line – John Matsko
Assistant Offensive Line – Andy Moeller
Offensive Assistant – Craig Ver Steeg
Offensive Assistant – Jason Brooks

Posted by: BlackBagOps | January 26, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Just read that O'Brien Schofield, Wisconsin DE, injured ACL yesterday. 6'3", 242#, made quite a showing at Shrine Bowl last weekend, showed he could transition from DE to LB. Was projected to go in 2 or 3 round, will surely fall now. Should we use a 6 or 7 rd pick there, knowing he wouldn't play much this year?

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

As for Jim Zorn's future, say hello to the new head coach of the UFL's latest expansion team the Portland Mediums.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 26, 2010 10:43 AM |

Has the PSU job been filled yet after they gave the glan man the heave-ho? Replace one NFL bust with another. Heh, heh.

Posted by: BlackBagOps | January 26, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | January 26, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

The one thing he does well is drive block. I understand the thought behind this. If he could "drive block" from the other side of the ball then it should collapse the pocket. It's not as far fetched as it seems. I think it is more than worth a try. The real question would be his run stopping ability. He may not be fleet footed enough to play offensive tackle but as a nose tackle could he stop a runner? He's 6-8 360 pounds and strong as an ox. There has to be a place on the field for someone built like him.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 26, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

I am just a fan of sending Jim back to the WC where he belongs.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 26, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

As for Jim Zorn's future, say hello to the new head coach of the UFL's latest expansion team the Portland Mediums.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 26, 2010 10:43 AM

I can't imagine that Zorn will ever be a head coach again and probably not even an OC -- even of a high school team. He'll make a good QB coach for someone, but that's the extent of his competence. He's been exposed by the Peter Principle.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

... Campbell, big arm play action not west coast suited.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 10:33 AM |

1. Campbell play action? He isn't too agile at getting out from under the center and rolling out. He's not mobile like Drew Brees. Too Tall.

2. Big arm is no big deal for WCO. See Cutler and Shan at Den in 2008.

Posted by: BlackBagOps | January 26, 2010 10:57 AM | Report abuse

The one thing he does well is drive block. I understand the thought behind this. If he could "drive block" from the other side of the ball then it should collapse the pocket. It's not as far fetched as it seems. I think it is more than worth a try. The real question would be his run stopping ability. He may not be fleet footed enough to play offensive tackle but as a nose tackle could he stop a runner? He's 6-8 360 pounds and strong as an ox. There has to be a place on the field for someone built like him.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 26, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse
That's what I was thinking, PA. I understand brownie's concerns too. He would not be "nimble" enough to track down runners going off-tackle. But he could be very disruptive in clogging up the middle. I think he would limit a pulling G or T from moving to the other side of the ball.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

"See Cutler and Shan at Den in 2008."


You have to believe that's what we'll see this Fall.

Thing is, we don't have the o-line or big play receiver in the house yet.

Even if the choice is to give no names like Ganther and Mason the back up spots behind CP, we still need the blocking and receiver play that makes the q-back's job easy.

We'll see what happens.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Also...Wil this SB be remembered as the Jim Mora Bowl??


Playoffs?!?!? You kidding Me!

Now we can talk about playoffs...No I am not kidding. And it'll be better than Diddly-Poo......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 26, 2010 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I think there's a possibility that Mike Wms becomes a decent RG next year. He started out the year losing 100 lbs and had to basically recover from that process. By the end of the year he was starting and was ok. Another offseason of strength training and conditioning and he could be ready to be a solid contributor on the line. If the skins take a T in round one and there's a top G in round two I'm not saying don't take him. But maybe it would be ok to take tackles with both picks.

Posted by: skinfanman | January 26, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

blahhhhhhhhhhh, September can't come any faster.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | January 26, 2010 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Guys,
Factor "injury-prone" into a players' overall ability to help the team win games. You can't just say, "Well, those were just freak things" when it happens over and over. Some people are just prone to injury and I think BMW is one of those people. It wasn't just something you can cast off with the weight loss because he was injury prone before his hiatus from the NFL.

I'll add that this one area, suprisingly, where the team was smart last year. They managed to offload guys like Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and Pete Kendall that had recurring problems. If a player is unable to play or practice, their value is diminished. I'm sorry, but BMW is one of those guys. He repeatedly had injuries that kept him from practice and from playing in games.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 11:18 AM | Report abuse

If the skins take a T in round one and there's a top G in round two I'm not saying don't take him. But maybe it would be ok to take tackles with both picks.

Posted by: skinfanman | January 26, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse
Iupati may fall to #37. He has a huge body. I think I read where he has 35' arms, and has been mentioned as possibly playing either G or T.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 11:22 AM | Report abuse

September can't come any faster.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | January 26, 2010 11:12 AM

Aside from the kids going back to school, September sucks. Days get shorter. Congress comes back. Traffic gets worse. And for the Redskins, off season hopes are smashed by regular season realities.

Give me August with the pre-season games where if we win we're awesome and if we lose "We'll turn it up a notch in September." And Colt is All Pro for a day, again.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

It sort of sounds like some of those Yogi Berra quotes but without the humor and the irony.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 10:19 AM

Pot, meet Kettle.

Kettle, meet Pot.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

did everyone hear? Fletcher is game for a 3-4 defense.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | January 26, 2010 11:25 AM | Report abuse

September can't come any faster.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | January 26, 2010 11:12 AM

Aside from the kids going back to school, September sucks. Days get shorter. Congress comes back. Traffic gets worse. And for the Redskins, off season hopes are smashed by regular season realities.

Give me August with the pre-season games where if we win we're awesome and if we lose "We'll turn it up a notch in September." And Colt is All Pro for a day, again.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

lol. Bigfoot's birthday is in September.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | January 26, 2010 11:26 AM | Report abuse

They managed to offload guys like Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and Pete Kendall that had recurring problems.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 11:18 AM

RSH,

I think you're right about Williams. But never use Kendall's name in the same sentence with those other two. Kendall had bad knees and they excused him from practice, but in two seasons with the Redskins he had perfect attendance -- started 32 games.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

I think there's a possibility that Mike Wms becomes a decent RG next year. He started out the year losing 100 lbs and had to basically recover from that process. By the end of the year he was starting and was ok. Another offseason of strength training and conditioning and he could be ready to be a solid contributor on the line. If the skins take a T in round one and there's a top G in round two I'm not saying don't take him. But maybe it would be ok to take tackles with both picks.

Posted by: skinfanman | January 26, 2010 11:10 AM | Report abuse

I think a lot of Mike's issues at right guard were due to not knowing how to play the position. He didn't seem to get beat as much as he was simply our of place or didn't know who to block. That should show up on film. I think an enitire offseason of playing guard would make him pretty good at it. I think the players available are going to be what drives the second round pick. We have so many needs that it makes little sense to lock yourself into 1 posiiton in the second round. I understand getting the elite left tackle in the first because they are gone by the second but the other positions are different. You can get great running backs, linebackers, guards, centers, and safeties in the second round. I think there will be "that guy" that slips into round 2 that should have gone higher and that's the guy we'll take.

Some candidates are:

Mike Iupati G
Brandon Spikes ILB
C.J. Spiller RB
Terrence Cody NT
Trent Williams OT (probably a right tackle but who knows?)
Earl Thomas FS

If just 1 of them slips to the second round I could see us taking him and I wouldn't be upset.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 26, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

blahhhhhhhhhhh, September can't come any faster.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | January 26, 2010 11:12 AM

Oh but there is so much MORE to the Skins offseason ... and we're not even done with the formerly post-post season (the Pro Bowl). After the Super Bowl, we get the lapse of the CBA. Then the Combine. Then free agency. Then the draft. Then the dry arid desert that is June (with some OTAs scattered here and there), followed by camp (in July?).

The bottom line is that, through all of this, you won't be able to pull yourself away from this here blog. Many have tried. All of failed. September Schmeptember.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

blahhhhhhhhhhh, September can't come any faster.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | January 26, 2010 11:12 AM

Oh but there is so much MORE to the Skins offseason ... and we're not even done with the formerly post-post season (the Pro Bowl). After the Super Bowl, we get the lapse of the CBA. Then the Combine. Then free agency. Then the draft. Then the dry arid desert that is June (with some OTAs scattered here and there), followed by camp (in July?).

The bottom line is that, through all of this, you won't be able to pull yourself away from this here blog. Many have tried. All of failed. September Schmeptember.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:30 AM | Report abuse

damnit! You are absolutely correct.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | January 26, 2010 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Pot, meet Kettle.

Kettle, meet Pot.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:25 AM

I've heard of those movies: Ma and Pot Kettle and their 15 children. Claudette Colbert as Ma and Fred MacMurray as Pot. I never really cared for them as much as you apparently do, though.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 11:35 AM | Report abuse

... I think there will be "that guy" that slips into round 2 that should have gone higher and that's the guy we'll take.

Some candidates are:

Mike Iupati G
Brandon Spikes ILB
C.J. Spiller RB
Terrence Cody NT
Trent Williams OT (probably a right tackle but who knows?)
Earl Thomas FS

If just 1 of them slips to the second round I could see us taking him and I wouldn't be upset.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 26, 2010 11:29 AM

From the chatter yesterday in the blogosphere, I sense that Iupati will be moving up into the first round based on weigh-ins alone ... and will keep creeping up based on practice ... like Brandon Albert did ... up to the point where he goes in the first half of the draft ... and some team ends up moving him to OT (just like the Cheeve did with Albert).

Also, Terrence Cody (based on the weigh-ins and practice) sounds like he might be your second round slipper (if he was even ever pegged as a first rounder). LBs also tend to slide for some reason ...

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:37 AM | Report abuse

... Claudette Colbert as Ma and Fred MacMurray as Pot. ...

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 11:35 AM

"I see dead people."

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:39 AM | Report abuse

After further comments, Fletch asked to be referred to as Mr. Coktoastin and stated that "everything is ball bearings, these days".

Tim Matheson refused to comment for this article.

Posted by: DikShuttle | January 26, 2010 11:40 AM | Report abuse

I Dunno LS I can see Zorn as a HC again, not at any high level but of a struggling low end college or a minor league desperate to get anyone to be a head coach. How is that out of his reach, he was an OC for a mid major team way back when.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 26, 2010 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Pot, meet Kettle.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:25 AM

Pol Pot meet Ma Kettle. What a pair!

Posted by: BlackBagOps | January 26, 2010 11:42 AM | Report abuse

I Dunno LS I can see Zorn as a HC again, not at any high level but of a struggling low end college or a minor league desperate to get anyone to be a head coach. How is that out of his reach, he was an OC for a mid major team way back when.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 26, 2010 11:41 AM

I think anyone who looked at his record here, talked with players and other coaches, would decide that QB coach is his level of competence. He didn't show the skills you would want in an OC or HC. He couldn't manage a game, couldn't call plays, couldn't hold a lead, and couldn't even design an imaginative offense. His motivational skills seem really in doubt. He certainly doesn't have a name that would attract talent to a college program.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Recently, peeps up here have been talking about how free agency is going to be real limited this season ... which is only theoretically correct. The market for free agents as of the of the end of the league year, when free agency starts, might be smaller b/c lots of guys who should have become UFA will only be RFA, but there are still roster limits ... and guys with big contracts that teams just don't want anymore could be cut at any time after the salary cap dies ... because the dead cap space concept goes away. Depending on how contracts are written, some guys may have better or worse protection (i.e., for the purposes of getting paid even after they get cut). But I suspect that there will be more unrestricted free agents out there than just those that become unrestricted under normal rules.

Also, Arizona supposedly will let OLB Chike Okeafor hit the market ... and like Dansby, would provide the Skins with a necessary upgrade at the LB spot. I don't think Arizona is going to be letting guys go for cap reasons (i.e., a huge chunk of which would otherwise be due to Larry Fitzgerald), but for basic revenue reasons. I think the owners are going to try to look "poor" for the purposes of public perception for CBA negotiating purposes.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Look for Zorn as offensive coordinator in Chicago ... a job apparently nobody wants.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Aside from the kids going back to school, September sucks. Days get shorter. Congress comes back. Traffic gets worse. And for the Redskins, off season hopes are smashed by regular season realities.

Give me August with the pre-season games where if we win we're awesome and if we lose "We'll turn it up a notch in September." And Colt is All Pro for a day, again.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Ouch. How true, LS

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Scratch that thought on Okeafor. He would be a redundant Andre Carter. Still hearting Dansby though.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:59 AM | Report abuse

They managed to offload guys like Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and Pete Kendall that had recurring problems.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 11:18 AM

RSH,

I think you're right about Williams. But never use Kendall's name in the same sentence with those other two. Kendall had bad knees and they excused him from practice, but in two seasons with the Redskins he had perfect attendance -- started 32 games.


Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 11:29 AM
-------------------------------------------
I'm from the "you don't practice, you don't play" school of thought on football. An offensive line that cannot practice together suffers. We never saw Kendall give up many sacks, but how many sacks came about because of a lack of harmony between he, Samuels and Rabach? Nope, I hear what you are saying, but Kendall also sits on my list of the oft injured.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Look for Zorn as offensive coordinator in Chicago ... a job apparently nobody wants.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:56 AM

Maybe Martz? Cutler's not going to take coaching from Jim Zorn.

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Cutler doesn't want Zorn. No body wants Zorn....

He will be out of Pro Football for the season...HE has no motivation since he would essentially be working for free....It's probably in his contract he needs to 'actively' seek employment. Which is why you see his names leaked for job opportunities by his agent. By, as Zorn said in the article above, nothing 'real' has come up yet......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 26, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

F Zorn

Posted by: chrislarry | January 26, 2010 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Look for Zorn as offensive coordinator in Chicago ... a job apparently nobody wants.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 11:56 AM
-----------------------------------------
Who would want it? They let Cutler sit in on the coach interviews??? Talk about hamstringing your coach. If Zorn took the job, after dealing with Snyder's left testicle Clinton Portis, then he truly is an idiot. Oh, wait a minute. After the swinging gate play Zorn establish himself as an idiot... Well, if he took the Chicago job he would be beyond idiotic.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

He will be out of Pro Football for the season...HE has no motivation since he would essentially be working for free....It's probably in his contract he needs to 'actively' seek employment. Which is why you see his names leaked for job opportunities by his agent. By, as Zorn said in the article above, nothing 'real' has come up yet......

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 26, 2010 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Nobody wants the Bears offensive coordinator job either. The offensive line is in shambles their #1 WR is a guy we cut from our practice squad and Lovie Smith is seen as a lame duck head coach. The job is seen as a 1 year opening resulting in termination. You can hire Zorn knowing you are just going to fire him anyway and let your new head coach pick his offensive coordinator in 2012.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 26, 2010 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Day 2 updates from the Senior Bowl
Scouts Inc. updates the action from Day 2 at the Senior Bowl


• Graham stepping up -- Michigan DE Brandon Graham has already emerged as the leader of the North defense. Graham is quick with good upper-body strength and technique. He never stops working, either. His motor is just ridiculous.

• UMass OL Vladimir Ducasse is talented but he is being exposed a bit on the first day in pads. His lack of technique and playing experience is showing up today.

• Idaho's Mike Iupati is clearly the best offensive lineman on the North roster. He is quick, powerful, balanced and nasty. He struggled when moved to tackle and might fit best at guard in the NFL, but Iupati is good enough to consider in the late first round.

• Cincinnati QB Tony Pike had been very efficient during the 7-on-7 period, throwing with good rhythm and making solid decisions. He found Dickson on a post route after looking off Nebraska S Larry Asante in the middle of the field.

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 12:22 PM | Report abuse

• Iowa LB A.J. Edds did a good job of jamming and re-routing Wisconsin TE Garrett Graham during 7-on7s but stumbled when forced to turn and run, so we're a little concerned about his man cover skills.

• Cincinnati WR Mardy Gilyard is having a strong overall day. He's running good routes and making a lot of plays during 7-on-7 drills after showing off his quick hands and feet early in practice.

• Missouri OLB Sean Weatherspoon and Wayne State (MI) RB Joique Bell battled during pass rush drills. Weatherspoon dominated with power early but Bell did not back down, a good sign for the small-school prospect.

• Pass rush drills were a good showcase for Virginia FB Rashawn Jackson, who played with an edge, anchored well and reset his feet well.

• Cincinnati WR Mardy Gilyard is showing quick feet and hands early in practice, doing a nice job getting off press coverage at the line. He beat California CB Syd'Quan Thompson over the top just now after beating the jam.

• Illinois TE Mike Hoomanawanui is not an explosive player but was crisp during cone work and is showing good leg drive during blocking drills. He impressed us yesterday and is on a roll again today. • Virginia CB Chris Cook is a rangy player with good size, and he is doing a nice job tracking the deep ball in drills.

• Virginia CB Chris Cook is a rangy player with good size, and he is doing a nice job tracking the deep ball in drills.

• Missouri WR Danario Alexander looks stiff early on, struggling to get a clean release against press coverage in opening drills. He was very productive in college but will have to get off the jam better to succeed in the NFL.

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

twis, thanks for the updates....good stuff...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I like the 34 idea. Have plenty of linemen to rotate, and plenty of candidates for rush linebacker. Bet we draft a cover linebacker.

Posted by: skins50 | January 26, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

"I think there's a possibility that Mike Wms becomes a decent RG next year."


I think there's a stronger chance he'll be unemployed.

An NFL guard has to be able to pull, screen block, and take on stunting/twisting rush ends.

Sometimes he's like a tackle in space or center with bulk right in front of him.

And if you ever see a skins game from last season where Mike Williams started at guard, you'll see that he's a capable drive blocker who doesn't handle himslef well in space.

Just as he couldn't at tackle.

Plus, Shanny values athleticism over bulk.

Iupati--a guy who is big and can play all line spots--is more like the kind of player the skins need as they re-build their offensive line.

If Iupati moves up into the top levels of round 1, I'd value him over Okung as he plays everything.

Iupati might be the smart #4 pick.

Okung is tackle whereas Iupati can be a guard, center, and tackle.

And he can run and do everything well.

Whereas with Mike Williams, you get a guy who's already proven that it's not correct to say he can play anything.

And with Okung, you get a guy who can only do one thing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Iupati might be the smart #4 pick.

Okung is tackle whereas Iupati can be a guard, center, and tackle.

And he can run and do everything well.

Whereas with Mike Williams, you get a guy who's already proven that it's not correct to say he can play anything.

And with Okung, you get a guy who can only do one thing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 12:30 PM | Report abuse
I hear you Moe. But that report said Iupati struggled when moved to T. So if he is slotted as G or C, he might not make it into 1st rd. Just may be available at #37.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"But that report said Iupati struggled when moved to T."


Folks, let's be aware of something: a lot of these kids haven't played 'live' football in 3 months.

So it goes without saying that when they get in a practice where every dude is trying to be seen, they'll get 'exposed' just a bit.

Plus, most offensive players need to grind away for awhile to get there 'stuff' together.

The defenders will look good early on at the Senior Bowl, but the offensive players will start getting things down by the end of the week.

There's enought tape on these guys, so teams really already know what they can and can't do.

And if a guy isn't improving as the week moves along, then scratch him off your list.

'Cuz that's what a real scout does when a guy isn't getting better in a short time frame.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Since its a boring time for news how bout off the wall speculation. Since we apparently desire to go to the 3-4 badly here's my idea for an offseason plan:

Re-sign: Gholston, Alexander, Rocky, Levi, Heyer, Mason, Ganther, and Daniels.

Cut: Randel EL, Rock, Betts

Allow to retire/or cut: Thomas, Wynn, Griffen

If Samuels can play great, but don't count on 16 games from him

Tender at highest level and hope someone signs them: JC and Rogers

Sign:(all listed options are set to be UFAs, obviously some will re-sign with their current teams)

1 FS - Bethea, Ryan Clark, Sean Jones, Daniel Manning, Darren Sharper

1 CB - Marlon Jackson, Benny Sapp, Leigh Torrence (jk), Fabian Washington, Ashton Youboty, Antoine Winfield

2 T - Barron, McNeil, Bushrod, Gandy, Adam Terry, John Tait, Eric Winston

1 RB - Chester Taylor, Jerome Harrison, Willie Parker, Jerius Norwood, Carnel Williams (bring Mason, Ganther, Portis, and signed back to camp, if Portis still sucks, cut him and keep the other 3 if he looks rejuvenated then cut either Mason or Ganther)

Trade: Andre Carter for a 3rd or a 4th, he's the least suited for the 3-4 switch but just had Pro Bowl caliber year.
Draft:
#1 - Clausen/Bradford whichever Shanny prefers (If nobody signed JC let the rook sit for a year, if JC is gone then you have more picks and let the rookie start)

#2 - Terrence Cody 370lbs NT to anchor D

Pick received for Andre Carter - best tackle or guard available.

#4 - MLB to be paired with London or to backup London and Rocky

#5 - C to push/replace Rabach

#7 - Small school light defensive end that can be converted into a rush LB.

After 2010 start draft at least one olineman in the top 3 rounds annually for at least the next 5 years.


Ok there it is, one guy's plan have at it with the tearing apart.


Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I hear you Moe. But that report said Iupati struggled when moved to T. So if he is slotted as G or C, he might not make it into 1st rd. Just may be available at #37.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 26, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

I think if Iupati plays tackle in the NFL it will be spot duty. Look at Brandon Albert for the Chiefs. They played him at tackle and he kind of sucked. They are projected to take Okung and move Albert back to guard. It is good that he can play tackle but why use him as a mediocre tackle when he can be an outstanding guard? We should take Okung who will be an outstanding tackle #4 overall and hope we can still get Iupati at #37. If we can't get him it isn't a huge dropoff to get Asamoaugh. I'd even be happy with Ducasse at #37.

If you take Iupati at #4 then who are you settling for as a left tackle at #37?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 26, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Man, if Okung drops to Washington in the draft there should be no hesitation in taking him. Left tackles like that are pretty rare. He could anchor the line for the next ten years. This is fantasy, of course. There's no way Okung falls to #4.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Trade: Andre Carter for a 3rd or a 4th, he's the least suited for the 3-4 switch but just had Pro Bowl caliber year.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 12:44 PM

Where's Bean to tear you down with extreme prejudice and malice aforethought?

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 26, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know of a site where I can look at stats for offensive linemen?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

#1 - Clausen/Bradford whichever Shanny prefers (If nobody signed JC let the rook sit for a year, if JC is gone then you have more picks and let the rookie start)

#2 - Terrence Cody 370lbs NT to anchor D

Pretty much the worst first two picks possible.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 26, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 26, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Guess you ignored that I said sign two tackles, that would give you 4 tackles with starting experience. Do you really need another?

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse

#1 - Clausen/Bradford whichever Shanny prefers (If nobody signed JC let the rook sit for a year, if JC is gone then you have more picks and let the rookie start)

#2 - Terrence Cody 370lbs NT to anchor D

Pretty much the worst first two picks possible.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 26, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse
--------------------------

Well it DOES seem a shame to put all our screeching about the line in our rearview just when we've gotten so good at it...

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 26, 2010 12:57 PM | Report abuse

This is fantasy, of course. There's no way Okung falls to #4.

He will be there at 4, book it. He's probably gonna be there at #5 too unfortunately.

Posted by: Skins281 | January 26, 2010 12:59 PM | Report abuse

#2 - Terrence Cody 370lbs NT to anchor D

posted by zjfr2

I would prefer Dan Williams out of (Tenn). He plays more snaps and is more athletic than Cody. Cody is a two down, 20-25 snap player, that could eat himself into the 4th round.

Posted by: TWISI | January 26, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Guess you ignored that I said sign two tackles, that would give you 4 tackles with starting experience. Do you really need another?

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 12:56 PM | Report abuse
-----------------------------

Heyer and Levi Jones had starting experience, so what's another pair going to buy us? It's like the adage about QBs. If you have 2 QBs who you can't decide between, then you don't have 1 QB you can start.

Thus, if we have 4 Ts we can't decide on, we don't have 1 we can count on.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 26, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Man, if Okung drops to Washington in the draft there should be no hesitation in taking him. Left tackles like that are pretty rare. He could anchor the line for the next ten years. This is fantasy, of course. There's no way Okung falls to #4.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse

#1 Rams just took a top LT last year in Jason Smith. They will not take Okung.

#2 Bucs need help everywhere and their LT had a good season. They should address the defensive line first with either Suh or McCoy. They also have a bunch of safeties that keep going to jail so taking Eric Berry here may also be a possibility. Berry supposedly can play conerback too and Ronde Barber isn't getting any younger. It's possible they take Okung but unlikely.

#3 The Lions have a lot of money wrapped up in Jeff Backus and Jim Schwartz recently suggested that Jeff Backus should have made the pro bowl this year. Backus is also on record saying he will not move inside to guard. Taking Suh here would greatly bolster their pass rush and help their linebackers. This could potentially give them a good front 7. It's unlikely they will take Okung.


I really see Okung dropping to at least #4.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 26, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Guess you ignored that I said sign two tackles, that would give you 4 tackles with starting experience. Do you really need another?

Posted by: zjfr2

Doesn't matter if we picked up 5 lineman in FA, I still wouldn't come anywhere near those two picks. Not to mention, I don't see there being much quality out there in FA for lineman, particularly young lineman. We need to start building our lines through the draft, not FA retreads.

We already have an overweight NT to anchor the D. We don't need another 370 pounder.

And taking a QB at #4 is a stretch. Trade down, go O-line, go RB... anywhere but QB.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 26, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

ryp, just don't have that much passion this early in the offseason...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Man, if Okung drops to Washington in the draft there should be no hesitation in taking him. Left tackles like that are pretty rare. He could anchor the line for the next ten years. This is fantasy, of course. There's no way Okung falls to #4.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 26, 2010 12:46 PM | Report abuse
-----------------------------

If Okung falls to #4 and the clock hits 9:55 before Goodell takes the stage with an Okung jersey, I'll be dissapointed

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 26, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know of a site where I can look at stats for offensive linemen?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

NFL.com has team stats, no individual player stats. If you find that please let me know, you know how much of a stats geek I am.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 26, 2010 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Must be a Massachusetts's thing, eh Beans?

Why the hell is he posing like that?

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__44/ept_sports_nba_experts-932232481-1264522402.jpg?ymiiKlCDGTJ7G2x5


Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Bean, disappointing but understandable...

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 26, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know of a site where I can look at stats for offensive linemen?

Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 12:54 PM | Report abuse

For NFL you can go to NFL.com, http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol for team stats. For an interesting view of individual stats check out this report http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/11/13/between-the-lines-whos-allowing-the-most-sacks/

You can see how much average protection they are providing and how many sacks they are giving up.

Stats from college are way too skewed. Every team plays like 3-4 games against the southern school for the deaf/hair care and tire mart university. You're much better off looking for tape of position battles against other top prospects and reading scouting reports.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | January 26, 2010 1:13 PM | Report abuse

red, he needs to focus on fulfilling his potential, and stop being a jack-azz...guy pisses me off...oh, and OL stats can be seen at, www.iamabama.com....

ryp, its also early for draft type stuff like Cody in the 2nd, lets see some combine stuff on this guy, if he puts up 225, three times, then he's gonna drop like a rock....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | January 26, 2010 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I really wish I didn't click on that link..

Posted by: Diesel44 | January 26, 2010 1:15 PM | Report abuse

"This is fantasy, of course. There's no way Okung falls to #4."


Right and exact, which is why the team should lock up the next best offensive linemen type at #4, Iupati, before another team decides, "Hey, why not take him?"

Thing is, if Campbell is traded, then Clausen/Bradford is the issue, and other offensive linemen types in round 2 come back into the picture.

It would reason that trading the 2nd (and another pick) rounder to the Niners for one of their 1st's would be a good idea, but the Madden GM points out the promise of value in other players in what might be a draft larded with talent at all spots.

It would be nice to trade Campbell for a 3rd/4th, and the '11 first rounder for a 2nd, which might leave the team with 3 picks in rounds 1 and 2, and additional middle round choices.

Again--the team has some interesting choices.

And now we have a team in the FO that'll make some good ones--hopefully.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Eric Berry. I'd like to see him on our squad.

Posted by: supuradam | January 26, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

The Ravens are going to interview Jim Zorn for their QB coach position.

...waiting on Reid to make the full post.

Posted by: p1funk | January 26, 2010 1:28 PM | Report abuse

alex, they have some sites out there, but those guys have cooked up some wacky formula for grading and ranking.

The site is called: http://profootballfocus.com/home, and maybe you can understand and explan their grading process to me: http://profootballfocus.com/about.php?tab=about

Here is the list for linemen and where they're ranked: http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=T&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"The Ravens are going to interview Jim Zorn for their QB coach position."

Jim Zorn--and not J Flacco--will benefit the most from this hire.

Cam Cameron is one of the best offensive coordinators no one talks about.

Cameron fits his scheme to his personnel--a little lesson that seemed to have evaded Zoron's clutches the past two year's.

And with their both having failed as head coaches, I bet each gets a second shot should the ravens play well again next year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Red, SHEESH that was difficult ... Heyer at #71 and Levi Jones at #75 (second to the last). I'm not sure why I'm surprised though.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Everyone acts like Okung is a sure thing Pro Bowl player to "anchor the line for a decade". Lets look at round 1 tackles since 2005

2005
#13 Jamaal Brown - has never played 16 games, missed all of 2007 and this year
#19 Alex Barron - Starter

2006
#4 D Ferguson Pro Bowl LT

2007
#3 Joe Thomas starter at LT
#5 Levi Brown starter at RT
#28 Joe Staley starter at LT

2008
#1 Jake Long starter
#12 Ryan Clady starter
#14 Chris Williams injured all of 08 started at the end of this year
#17 Gosder Cherilus has underwhelmed but started
#19 Jeff Otah starter till injured
#21 Sam Baker starter
#26 Duane Brown starter


2009
#2 Jason Smith currently the #3 RT on St. Louis' depth chart
#6 Andre Smith out of shape caused injury missed entire year
#9 Eugene Monroe spent most of the season behind Tra Thomas started most of the second halff of the season
#23 Michael Oher starter looks like a real player

so out of 17 drafted tackles since 2005 you have 1 Pro Bowler, 10 starters, and 6 guys who have been injured or just weren't that good.


QBs?

2005
#1 Alex Smith rocky start to career but regained the starting role this year and played ok
#24 Aaron Rodgers pro bowl QB
#25 Jason Campbell...ahem....4 year starter

2006
#3 Vince Young uneven beginning but ROY, Pro Bowl, and starter now
#10 Leinart backup to Pro Bowl QB
#11 Cutler been a pro bowler and is a starter despite a crap year this year

2007
#1 Jamarcus Russel terrible starter
#22 Brady Quinn mediocre starter

2008
#3 Matt Ryan starter
#18 Joe Flacco starter

2009
#1 Stafford injured but starter and showed promise
#5 Sanchez starter
#17 Josh Freeman starter

so 13 drafted, 3 pro bowlers, 9 legit starters, 3 bad starters, and 1 backup to a Pro Bowl QB.

seems to me you're better of signing starting lineman in free agency and drafting the best available QB......

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Cody is fat, lazy, and out of shape... he has wasted year 1 written all over him.. can you say, Andre Smith redux ??

forget it..

Posted by: shally | January 26, 2010 1:38 PM | Report abuse

I think there's a possibility that Mike Wms becomes a decent RG next year. He started out the year losing 100 lbs and had to basically recover from that process. By the end of the year he was starting and was ok. Another offseason of strength training and conditioning and he could be ready to be a solid contributor on the line. If the skins take a T in round one and there's a top G in round two I'm not saying don't take him. But maybe it would be ok to take tackles with both picks.

Posted by: skinfanman

The problem with BMW is that he didn't understand his body and he'd been out of football for so long. His body went thru a makeover, which was very good, but it takes time to 'learn' how to use it.

BMW should have done this past year in the UFL.

With this past year under his belt, I think there is a real chance he can be effective in 2010.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 26, 2010 1:40 PM | Report abuse

damn, my bad. That was just the list for the tackles...

Sween, yeah no kidding. Should be no surprise that Heyer is ranked that low, but I thought Levi Jones was decent in his starts. But I'm trying to figure out how the players on that site are graded. From the rankings alone though it looks to be on par.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"...seems to me you're better of signing starting lineman in free agency and drafting the best available QB..."


Two things not evident in your analysis:

a. The teams that drafted the quarterbacks already had good offensive lines in place.

So it would follow that they'd play well.

b. All of the linemen listed went to 'bad teams'.

So actually, the data reflects taking a linemen if you're 4-12 with a 2005 drafted quarterback who threw for 3,600 yards behind a porous line.

I'm not arguing.

I'm just sayin'.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 1:43 PM | Report abuse

damn, my bad. That was just the list for the tackles...

Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 1:43 PM

Not that the rankings for the rest of the Skins line (guards: Dockery #24, Will Montogomery #58 and center: Raback #25) isn't otherwise consistent(ly bad).

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Red,
First of all, great find. I know what I will be doing in the next few nights...
I am not sure how they are getting their Ratings. Its not like NFL.com where they break down the full stats for o-line.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 26, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

seems to me you're better of signing starting lineman in free agency and drafting the best available QB......

Posted by: zjfr2

The past 4 years have been unusually good for 1st round QB drafts. I looked at it going back a good bit further (with top 10 overall picks) and it was 50/50 over about 20 QB selections. Ironically, its the #1 overalls that have been mixed on your list.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 26, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

a. The teams that drafted the quarterbacks already had good offensive lines in place.

lol, tell that to Aaron Rodgers and Mathew Stafford.....

I'm not saying don't fix the oline, I just think everyone on here is delusional if they think its automatic that drafting 3 lineman in this draft fixes our line problem. IMO its safer to go with known commodities this year in FA as well as draft some guys in the middle rounds then gamble with the price tag that the #4 overall pick will carry and hope you find the next Chris Samuels. Ongoing there needs to be a true commitment to draft lineman high in drafts but at #4 I'd rather take a shot at an elite QB prospect then at an elite tackle prospect.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Lets look at round 1 tackles since 2005

2005

2006
#4 D Ferguson Pro Bowl LT

2007
#3 Joe Thomas starter at LT
#5 Levi Brown starter at RT

2008
#1 Jake Long starter

2009

#2 Jason Smith currently the #3 RT on St. Louis' depth chart

QBs?

2005
#1 Alex Smith rocky start to career but regained the starting role this year and played ok

2006
#3 Vince Young uneven beginning but ROY, Pro Bowl, and starter now

2007
#1 Jamarcus Russel terrible starter

2008
#3 Matt Ryan starter

2009
#1 Stafford injured but starter and showed promise
#5 Sanchez starter

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 1:34 PM

If you peel it back to the Top Five picks, it looks a little different. Also, Jake Long was the #2 tackle in that little RedDMV link ... but I agree that if you cross off Jason Smith from the tackles and Jamarcus Russell from the QBs, it looks like a wash.

Posted by: dcsween | January 26, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

For NFL you can go to NFL.com, http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol for team stats. For an interesting view of individual stats check out this report http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/11/13/between-the-lines-whos-allowing-the-most-sacks/

You can see how much average protection they are providing and how many sacks they are giving up.

___

So, according to this site, Chris Samuels gave up more sacks in the brief time he was on the line last year (2.5 sacks) than Dockery, who played the entire season (and supposedly gave up only .5 sacks for the season)

Anyone else think there might be something a little funny about that?

Posted by: edvar | January 26, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 1:34 PM | Report abuse
-----------------------------

Compelling. But you included the entire first round, when in all fairness, most of the tackles mentioned went far below the value of the #4 pick. If you limit it to 1 thru 4, then you have 1 pro bowler, 3 starters, and 1 guy who didn't want to go to St Louis.

As far as QBs, Vince Young and Matt Ryan have played well at times. Smith is ok, Stafford is hurt, and Russel just plain stinks.

That's 3/4 vs 4/5, if you assume Stafford turns out ok.

PS- Joe Thomas for the Browns was a Pro Bowler. Just a tidbit I picked up looking for who the heck he was.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | January 26, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

IMO its safer to go with known commodities this year in FA as well as draft some guys in the middle rounds then gamble with the price tag that the #4 overall pick will carry and hope you find the next Chris Samuels. Ongoing there needs to be a true commitment to draft lineman high in drafts but at #4 I'd rather take a shot at an elite QB prospect then at an elite tackle prospect.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

You keep referring to FA, but who in FA? As I've mentioned before, the only real Pro Bowl caliber OT available (Mcneil) will more then likely be resigned. Other than that, you're looking at O lineman that are average at best or getting up in yrs. How is that improving the O line while getting younger? I'd rather take a chance that Okung might be another Chris Samuels then take somebody in FA who I know will never be remotely close to Samuels. That's what the draft is about: POTENTIAL

Posted by: ga8085 | January 26, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

"...at #4 I'd rather take a shot at an elite QB prospect then at an elite tackle prospect."



You're preaching to the choir.

We got Campbell, and the way Shanny works, he'll find the linemen he wants in unheard of guys from no name schools.

I mean, look at that center he brought in a couple of weeks ago: that guy is a nobody.

And who ever they bring in to complete remaking the line will be a bunch of nobodies from nowhere.

But thanks for the post.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 26, 2010 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Ongoing there needs to be a true commitment to draft lineman high in drafts but at #4 I'd rather take a shot at an elite QB prospect then at an elite tackle prospect.

Posted by: zjfr2

Looking back at the past 4 years is a bit tricky. Most of the players fit into the TBD category. Rodgers is the only legit star in the group.

Flacco and Ryan appear over the hump and are legit starters for the long haul. Sanchez perhaps as well.

Everyone else is mixed, especially considering the high draft pick status. Was Cutler at 11th overall better than Ngata, the Raven's NT, selected right behind him?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 26, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

I always thought that Dockery was the MVP on offense for the Redskins in 2009.

You never seen Dockery get abused like the rest of those guys.

I don't know how credible and official ProFootballFocus is, but they have Dockery listed at 24 among the 84 they have ranked.

That's not too bad at all. Only time I remember Dockery f'ing up was the false start at Dallas near the end of the game.

Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Haven't Jake Long and Ryan Clady also been to the Pro Bowl?

Posted by: iH8dallas | January 26, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Sr. Beeps

Posted by: RedDMV | January 26, 2010 2:08 PM | Report abuse

IF the draft goes Suh, other stud DT whose name escapes me, and then Berry, Okung and both Clausen and Bradford will be there at 4.

Would that tempt a team to come get Okung or one of the 2 QBs?

I think we should trade out of the 4 spot to gain picks if at all possible. I think we can get a "good enough" LT while adding another starter, too. "Good Enough" means above avg NFL LT who is not that much of a drop off from Okung, if in fact Okung is even "the guy" in this years LT class.

I think anywhere from 8-15 in the first we can get a "good enough" LT. We have many needs and i think we should address more than 1 with the 4 pick if at all possible.

My hope is that some team is in love with Clausen and wants to come get him or Okung. Shehawks? They fit that bill.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | January 26, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

You keep referring to FA, but who in FA? As I've mentioned before, the only real Pro Bowl caliber OT available (Mcneil) will more then likely be resigned. Other than that, you're looking at O lineman that are average at best or getting up in yrs. How is that improving the O line while getting younger? I'd rather take a chance that Okung might be another Chris Samuels then take somebody in FA who I know will never be remotely close to Samuels. That's what the draft is about: POTENTIAL

Posted by: ga8085 | January 26, 2010 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I guess there's the difference between me and most of you on here. I happen to think its very hard to build a dominant oline, especially playing the defenses in our division twice a year. I'd rather have an average tackle and a pro bowl QB than a pro bowl tackle and an average QB.

This season out of the 6 pro bowl tackles only 3 had pro bowl QB's and only 3 teams made the playoffs. (IMO Braynt Mckinnie and Jason Peters weren't really Pro Bowlers but whatevs) Of the 6 pro bowl QBs all made the playoffs and two are in the Super Bowl.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 26, 2010 2:14 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: League-Source | January 26, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

i dont see how anyone can think that BMW has any chance of coming back next year, and playing in a line for Shanahan.. the style of lineman Shanahan has always wanted is lighter, more athletic, able to pull and move out and with good footwork..
those are ALL things that BMW lacks, whether he is at guard or tackle.
he is a nice man, who was a remarkable human interest story, but even if healthy, he lacks the basic skillset needed.

if he wants to try to continue his career in the NFL, it makes more sense for him to try and catch on with a team like Dallas who uses massive offensive linemen in their offensive scheme.

picking up Lichtensteiger is a tip of the hand of what type of linemen we are going to be looking for. smaller, intense, solid technique with good feet.. whether he is a reserve, starter, or non-roster player that is what we are going to be looking for. BMW couldnt fire out and get a linebacker at the second level if his life depended upon it..

Posted by: shally | January 26, 2010 2:53 PM | Report abuse

And how telling is it that Jim Zorn and Al Saunders are in competition for the Baltimore Ravens' Quarterbacks Coach opening?

Jeesh.

Makes it look like we've been playing with back-up talent for a while now.

Posted by: Thinker_ | January 26, 2010 7:08 PM | Report abuse

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