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What I Think ... About the Randle El Option Call

Here's what happened:

On the Redskins' first play from scrimmage in the opener, running back Clinton Portis gained 34 yards on a rush behind left tackle Chris Samuels and left guard Derrick Dockery. The play occurred after the Giants consumed more than 7 minutes on the game's first possession and took a 3-0 lead.

I thought Portis's run was exactly the start the Redskins needed. And after such a big gain on a first-down rush, I figured the Redskins would then try a play-action pass. But Coach Jim Zorn called an end-around option pass for Antwaan Randle El.

The Giants' secondary did a great job in coverage against wide receiver Santana Moss and tight end Chris Cooley. Randle El held the ball too long and was sacked for an 11-yard loss, resulting in second and 21 from New York's 48-yard line. Talk about a momentum killer.

Washington ran two more plays and punted. They would not run another play in the quarter and never got into a good rhythm on offense while working in catch-up mode the whole game.

Here's what I think:

Don't get me wrong. I'm not attempting to argue the Redskins lost the game because Zorn went with a gimmick on the second play of the season after Portis's strong run. Also, teams generally prefer to run those types of trick plays on their opponents' side of the 50, and Randle El is a smart veteran. He knows he should have thrown the ball away as soon as it became clear the play wouldn't work.

I get all of that. There are, however, momentum-shifting moments in every game -- and that was one of them.

The Giants had the ball for 12 minutes 11 seconds in the quarter. The Redskins had possession for only 2:49.

With the Giants top-notch defense and second-to-none running game, the Redskins were in big trouble after the Giants set the tone in the first quarter. The trick play definitely didn't help the Redskins.

"The trick play was pretty sound," Zorn said the other day. "It was the right field position; it was on the script. They covered Santana, which most of the day they tried to take him out of the game. They did a good job with two guys on him. They had him covered. They had Chris Cooley covered on the play.

"I would trust every time if I called it again, Antwaan would just throw it away. He decided to try to make something out of it. There was nothing really there. That wasn't the key to the game, either. It was just a play. Several plays added up to us being frustrated most [of] the day on offense just because they were drive stoppers."

By Jason Reid  |  September 15, 2009; 12:26 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Redskins Add Tackle to Practice Squad

Comments

First.... to say the season isn't over yet.

Posted by: dcwun | September 15, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Is Zorn too stubborn to play to the strengths of his players?

I want to see Campbell in the shotgun more, perhaps some no-huddle when it's not needed. Seems to me JC is at his best in these situations. But I'm just another guy who knows absolutely nothing about NFL football...

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | September 15, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

yods, agreed, run the no huddle out of the shot, until you see the defense with their tongues hanging out, then RAM portis down their throat......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

"The trick play was pretty sound," Zorn said the other day.

That said it all to me. Being Head Coach of the Skins is not a training position. Zorn clearly doesn't have a clue.

Posted by: dcwun | September 15, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

I don't think that play lost the game for them. It was peculiar to run it right after the run by Portis, but I think Zorn kind of hinted that he had it on his script, meaning he runs his first few series of plays to a script that he doesn't deviate from. Hey, if it worked, we'd all be saying he was brilliant. I'm more upset by the run on second and long, and JC's audible to a run on third and forever. At some point in time you have to put some faith in those big receivers that they can catch a pass in traffic...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Zorn:
> [...] it was on the script [...]

I keep seeing this... The fact that it was in the script doesn't make it a good call. It means that the script was bad.

"MANOS" THE HANDS OF FATE had a script... but it still sucked.

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | September 15, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

the problem with the play it that it didn't work. the giants never thought ARE would run with the ball, or weren't afraid of him running with it- the guy covering moss was never fooled and never even looked in the backfield.

Posted by: Shifty138 | September 15, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

First of all, ARE throwing doesn't even qualify as a trick play anymore. If there is a defensive coordinator, or for that matter a defensive player, that doesn't know that ARE and the backfield = throw, they should be fired.

What bothers me more is the complete lack of urgency from JZ and JC. After the game, JZ was talking about how it was a close game, etc. Give me a break - you were beaten up and down the field, and got 3 points from your offense in 3.5 quarters who then got a garbage TD while the Giants starters were laughing it up on the sidelines. Same sense from JC - he seemed to be deluding himself that this game was within reach. No touch with reality. Where is the urgency?

Posted by: zornskins2 | September 15, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Bad play call coupled with bad execution...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Dumbest play call I ever saw, for that moment.

On the script? Pulllleeezee!

Though, maybe it was so dumb and so ill timed it was brilliant?

Posted by: scottdd1 | September 15, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

beantown, no-huddle would not only tire out the defense, but it could also allow the offense to establish some sort of rhythm. Something that has been lacking for a while now.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | September 15, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one that thinks that Horton disappeared in the 2nd half?

Was he benched? Nicked up? Playing deeper than Landry(is this possble)

Posted by: scottdd1 | September 15, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Zeke, you went down!

I can't believe it

I rule! for 1 week at least

Posted by: noonefromtampa | September 15, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Though, maybe it was so dumb and so ill timed it was brilliant?

Posted by: scottdd1 | September 15, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

The problem with it is it was predictable -- most divisional rivals that have watched a ton of film on the Skins have seen us use that play a few times with ARE, so it didn't fool anyone...much like the rest of our playcalling...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

No TE or WR screens, they were good last year. Didn't like the play calling

Posted by: noonefromtampa | September 15, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I like Greg Blache and I think he's a quote machine, but the Defense couldn't get off the field in the first half. Gregg W would have a field day with this Defense

Posted by: dcwun | September 15, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Red, what's your BMI or body fat percentage?

Posted by: learnedhand1


I haven't got that measured in a little while... about three years or so, but last time I think it was 8 or 9 percent.

----------------------------------------------------------------

""The trick play was pretty sound," Zorn said the other day. "It was the right field position; it was on the script. They covered Santana, which most of the day they tried to take him out of the game. They did a good job with two guys on him. They had him covered. They had Chris Cooley covered on the play.

"I would trust every time if I called it again, Antwaan would just throw it away. He decided to try to make something out of it. There was nothing really there. That wasn't the key to the game, either. It was just a play. Several plays added up to us being frustrated most [of] the day on offense just because they were drive stoppers." - Jim "f-ing" Zorn

Hey cornball, how about you YOU take some accountability?

First of all, "Boo" on your sorry ass for calling "scripted" plays in the first place. Calling scripted plays leads to taking a chance where the defense can align in such a way that you're SCRIPTED bs won't work, therefor leading to confusion, broken plays, turnovers, and burning timeouts. You don't call that crap in that spot at that point in the game.

Second, you SUCK pig nuts. Go back to the QBs coach position where you spent the large part of your coaching career -- where you BELONG.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

"Campbell Takes the Long View"

His view notwithstanding, Campbell should be on an 8 game leash.

If Reid can bench McNabb to add a spark to the iggles O, why can't Campbell be benched if he can't be an offensive leader?

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Because in that game, the iggles were down by less then 7 points (i want to say 3 but not sure) at half time and then Cobb came in and blew the game. A game that if they had won, it would not have taken a miracle 17th Sunday to get into the playoffs.

Note: Almost all the time the backup QB is the backup because he is not as good as the #1. Have faith. HAIL.

Posted by: NFeKPo | September 15, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

This week's RI Peeps FF results summary

Opening week is done and the FF action was intense. Or something like that.

Our Fins friend crushed 4-12, led by 5 guys in double figures. The final score was 102-54. The aqua connection worked as two Seahawks keyed the Fins victory. Carlson and the Seahawk defense both provided big points for the Fins.

Nate led all teams with 119 points and defeated Omaha, with 78 points, Having the top RB, Adrian Peterson and top WR, Reggie Wayne helped Nate win big.

In a battle of titans that did include the Titan's defense, Alex topped the Skulls, 112-103. The Skull's philly defense equaled Alex's Drew Brees, each with 38 points. Ironically, this battle royale seemed to be decided by the kicking game, where usually reliable Bironas had negative points for Skulls, while Longwell had 10 for Alex. Despite losing Anthony Gonzales, Alex and Skulls were virtually deadlocked until Fred Jackson's TD late on Monday night put Alex over the top.

Future topped the Shaft 79-64, with Tom Brady's 21 leading the way. A couple of surprising Saints played major roles. Devery Henderson had 18 for Shaft and Mike Bell had 13 for Future.

The Houston folks played each other, with the Jackalopes holding off the Buffaloes 56-50. With several players involved in the Monday games, this one went down to the wire. However, most of the big names laid eggs in this one, resulting in a game where the 3rd worst score of the week beat the worst score.

Lastly, my Futaleufu team fell to noonefromtampa, 113-95. Tampa's balanced scoring was the key, only the kicker had less than 9 points.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 15, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

What was up with the audible in which he handed off to betts???

Posted by: jrb947 | September 15, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

So, what you think is that ARE should have thrown the ball away, that the play was momentum-shifting and hurt the redskins, and that Zorn thinks the same thing? I'm not trying to bash The Mayor, but I'm just looking for a little more insight from these posts than that.

Posted by: efa108 | September 15, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Hey cornball, how about you YOU take some accountability?

First of all, "Boo" on your sorry ass for calling "scripted" plays in the first place. Calling scripted plays leads to taking a chance where the defense can align in such a way that you're SCRIPTED bs won't work, therefor leading to confusion, broken plays, turnovers, and burning timeouts. You don't call that crap in that spot at that point in the game.

Second, you SUCK pig nuts. Go back to the QBs coach position where you spent the large part of your coaching career -- where you BELONG.

Posted by: RedDMV

Now that's the truth! How about 3 cheers for Red for being honest. HIP HIP HOORAY, HIP HIP HOORAY, HIP HIP HOORAY!

Posted by: dcwun | September 15, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Toss out the F'ing script... The fact that Zorn is acting robotic and cant make a change to his playcalling based on what is working is really telling. I have oftened watched a game where we go into halftime thinking ok Z man make the necessary adjustments and come out swingin! That never seems to happen football is s a game of 2 halfs if something aint workin the first half you revise your gameplan for the second half. With Zorn it is like he is sticking to the "script" results be damned

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Zeke, you went down!

I can't believe it

I rule! for 1 week at least

Posted by: noonefromtampa

I did go down -- solid win for you Tampa. Your team had a good game. All your guys kicked in nicely -- that's actually pretty rare. Enjoy your time at the top.

If there is one thing I learned about FF, it'll keep you humble. Last year, Zornskins led everyone in scoring by a bunch, but in the 2 game playoffs, he scored the least of all 4 guys in the mix, by a pretty significant amount. And he still won.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 15, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

The play call by JZ was poor considering the momentum that had been gained by Portis' long run. I was hoping the Skins would try a play-action pass with the Giants geared towards stopping Portis. My bigger issue was the poor judgment of ARE in not just throwing the ball away when it was clear the Giants had read the play. Second and ten is a big difference than second and 21 - the Skins still would have had a good chance at getting at least into field goal range.

This was a critical point in the game with the Giants having already gained the momentum at home with a long drive which chewed up almost 7 minutes off the clock and had the Skins defense on its heels.

Posted by: wizfan89 | September 15, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one more concerned about the play calling than the QB?

Posted by: dcwun
_______________________

Play-calling is THE major problem, at least based on what I saw Sunday (and remembering last year's 2nd half).

I'm definitely not a JC fan, but he's sufficient for this team to consistently win with because of its other strong components. Zorn's play selection is the problem, and it doesn't look like he upgraded from last year. And he's not going to learn this overnight - he needs to give this to someone else that's qualified (Sherman?) or bring in a heavyweight, accomplished offensive consultant to get him up to speed asap (not to change the offense, just the playcalling). I wish the local media would hammer him on this point, I'm not really seeing that.

Having said that, JC looks like he's running on a 286 processor out there... Like Jim Carrey doing fake slow-mo... You get the ugly picture.

I think this team has a lot of talent, enough to make the playoffs, but if the light doesn't go on for Zorn re: playcalling, it'll be an excruciating season (and it may well start with 1 or 2 losses in these next 3 games).

C'mon Zorny! Find the lightswitch!

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

wiz, I tend to agree regard ARE's lack of judgement on that play, he needs to have the clock ticking in his head, if its not there, then send it to souvenier city...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Second, you SUCK pig nuts. Go back to the QBs coach position where you spent the large part of your coaching career -- where you BELONG.

Posted by: RedDMV

Geez, Red, you're gonna have a coronary.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV,
Stop beating around the bush and just tell us what you mean...

I feel your pain, man. This coach is not the answer. His play calling is abysmal and he doesn't make adjustments on the fly very well. Scripting the first few series has been a staple of the WCO. There are a lot of coaches that use them - they just don't put trick plays into their scripts because the purpose of the script is to see how the defense responds to certain things you do on offense. Then you go back to them later with a play devised to take advantage of their reactions.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Mayor...still not sure what you think. You started to editorialize...but then drifted into a couple Zorn speak quotes that have already enraged the hamsters. At least this hamster.

So, let me tell you what I think: STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!!!!!

NO need for that play right there right then. What you needed was another run, perhaps play action, perhaps a quick hitter to MK12. Something, ANYTHING, that says "We are the Redskins offense, we are here to line up against you and kick your ass all damn day". Instead, we get, "hey lets run a gadget play and fool them". Which it didn't BECAUSE THE GIANTS ARE BETTER COACHED. Sad but true.

Its not so much the tactical aspect of the play, its a failure to grasp the strategic implications of the message the play sends...to both teams.

CP was right last year...we got a genius for a coach.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 15, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

I have been thinking of changing my handle... The more I think about it JC isnt the one calling the plays out there and even though he made some bonehead mistakes when the right play was called he was fairly efficeint. Maybe I should change it to FireJimZorn is that already taken?

Does anyone have Martys emaill ADD?? lol

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Why do they call 2 runs on 2nd and 21?????!!!

Posted by: jboogie1 | September 15, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I hate trickery, but I recall many Skins fans here advocating this sort of crap (flea flicker?!!) to start the game.

The first Q was a killer and it was all D related. The Jacksonville Jags were the only other team to have just one offensive possession in the first quarter.

The week 1 norm around the league was for defenses to start ahead of the offenses: In thus way the Redskins O was your typical NFL offenses.

The Giants, whether through great game planning, superior talent, or terrible Redskins play, racked up 188 yds on their first 3 drives (compared to league average of 76.3), ran 28 plays (league average 17.13) they scored 10 (league average 3.9), punted none (league 1.53), and had 2 redzone trips (league average was .7).

Their first 3 drives were the difference in the game.

Posted by: OrganicWater | September 15, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

So if it's too much for our head case err, head coach to adapt to what's working at the BEGINNING of the game, I guess its too much to expect that type of coaching from him on each series like most good offensive coordinators do in the modern game.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 15, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

thanks 4-12!

Posted by: dealer1 | September 15, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

mistamayor

"Here's What I Think ... About the Randle El Option Call"

What? No Wildcat?

Sir, the grounds for your impeachment have been given further evidence with this spurious analysis.

It's better to wonder, "Why experiment with a throw-back pass option when most NFL teams went Wildcat wild this past Sunday?"

I mean, shouldn't somebody start putting Zorn on the spot about why he's against installing a formation that works for most teams?

Devin Thomas, Rock Cartwright or ARE would all be interesting choices to go wildcat with.

I mean, why not: it's not like Campbell under center has been the second coming of Air Coryell....

...so far.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I did notice that Zorn tried to get on someone on the sideline during the game(cant remember who) and they didnt even turn their head... Zorn doesnt inspire this team the man has no fire and everyone has figured out his playbook. Tell me when you are watching the game that you cant call the next play before it happens??

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

I'd guess that Zorn ran that second play precisely because he thought the Giants weren't expecting it. Apparently he was wrong. A play action pass -- now there's something any defensive coordinator would expect.

I suspect that both teams went into the game with a similar game plan. That is, to hold the ball and keep the opponents' defense on the field until they got tired. The Giants did a better job of it. They were able to take advantage of single coverage on a couple pass plays and that made a big difference in the game.

Would have been nice to beat NY in their own home on opening day, but the better club won. Clubs that finished strong tend to start strong the next season (although NE, SD, and AZ may yet prove me wrong).

The Giants might be the best club we face all season. Or Philly. That's the NFC East for ya. The point is to beat the others.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 15, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

First of all, ARE throwing doesn't even qualify as a trick play anymore. If there is a defensive coordinator, or for that matter a defensive player, that doesn't know that ARE and the backfield = throw, they should be fired.

Posted by: zornskins2 | September 15, 2009 12:51 PM

And the one time this play worked with a deep touchdown to Moss was against the GIANTS in the last game of 2006. I doubt that Tom Coughlin and his coaches forgot to game plan for the ARE reverse pass scenario. Same thing goes for the Devin Thomas reverse. The only TD Devin Thomas scored was against the GIANTS. The play with Hunter Smith was the real trick play because the Skins haven't run a fake field goal since Gus Frerotte was quarterback.


Posted by: goose33 | September 15, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one that thinks that Horton disappeared in the 2nd half?

Was he benched? Nicked up? Playing deeper than Landry(is this possble)

Posted by: scottdd1 | September 15, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully they realized that Landry is a HORRIBLE FS and Horton is more of a FS than s SS. I noticed in the 2nd half there were more Horton/Doughty combos with Doughty playing SS and Horton playing FS. And if I'm wrong then that would SHOULD happen from now going forward.

Landry is NOT a FS and never will be.

Landry acted like a spoiled A-hole and made the game all about him getting at Jacobs.

Posted by: bigfish761 | September 15, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Guys,

I was just as frustrated as you all were. But why act like the sky is falling? At the end of the game, if they recover the onside kick, it's a game. It's a game they weren't supposed to win and they only lost by six. It's early. They will tighten up. And with the next five against STL, DET, TB, CAR and KC they could put themselves in a position where they would just need to ball at .500 to make the playoffs.

With games against DEN, OAK, PHIx2, DALx2, NYG, NO, SD and ATL...it's a possibility. All you negative people don't get to say shhh if they have a prodictive season. As I've said before, go support another team.

HAIL.

Posted by: lavararrington | September 15, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Maybe I should change it to FireJimZorn is that already taken?

Posted by: BenchCampbell

If not feel free to take it. I will get behind on that...in about 6 games if he doesn't show improvement. BUT FireVinny now that is a tag i can fully endorse or BoycottSnyder.

I will always be a Skins fan but I don't understand people who spend thousands of dollars on Skins merchandise/tickets/parking passes and then turn around and say they want change. What is the motivation of Snyder to change when he keeps making more money, obviously from his seat everything is working out.

Posted by: NFeKPo | September 15, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

This play was toooo early to be any type of Momentum Shifter. We were ONLY down 0-3.

smh......

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

If anyone should be benched after that performance it should be Landry and D Hall. Absolutley horrible and unacceptable performances from both.

Posted by: bigfish761 | September 15, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Reid didn't do my blood pressure any favors by posting this.

He posted this thread about this particular play, and then included comments from Jim "MOR-ON" Zorn.

Reid makes a good point (finally), about calling something else in that spot. A play-action call would've been good. A HB delay would've sufficed. Hell, a f'n QB draw would do better than that.

Or just simple plays, you know, like drop back and pass, or a run.

What happened to the firejimzorn.com site.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe,
Excellent point. If a team was already primed for the wildcat, then they would be all over a pass option. I hadn't thought of it that way.

This team doesn't run the wildcat because Zorn won't borrow from other coaches. The shotgun draw would have worked against the Giants because Gibbs used it effectively against them a few years ago. Nope. Zorn wouldn't use that. Gibbs used five wide receivers to counter the Seahawks blitz packages a few years ago. Five WR's? No, Zorn wouldn't use that. A lot of teams in the NFL have been talking about using the no huddle from time to time to keep defenses from making subtitutions and someone will use this effectively against the Giants this season. Zorn? Nope, why would he do that? This guy is about as innovative as a granite windshield.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Here are the 2 Momentum Shifters:

* JC17 SACK/FUNBLE/TD

* JC17 INT AFTER stepping over the line of scrimmage BY FIVE YARDS

Take those 2 plays away, we have a great chance......Don't be trying to blame ARE for some early game Bull-SJK....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

hellooooooo...............is the blog broken............

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

"The first Q was a killer and it was all D related. The Jacksonville Jags were the only other team to have just one offensive possession in the first quarter.

The week 1 norm around the league was for defenses to start ahead of the offenses: In thus way the Redskins O was your typical NFL offenses.

The Giants, whether through great game planning, superior talent, or terrible Redskins play, racked up 188 yds on their first 3 drives (compared to league average of 76.3), ran 28 plays (league average 17.13) they scored 10 (league average 3.9), punted none (league 1.53), and had 2 redzone trips (league average was .7).

Their first 3 drives were the difference in the game."

Posted by: OrganicWater

Exactly.

Posted by: psps23 | September 15, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

I don't think its Jason Campbell or any of the players. Major problem is the play calling sucks. We will see how they improve against the Rams this week.

Posted by: TheJury | September 15, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Whatever happened to that wingnut? IP blocked by WaPo?

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

sorry about that, for some reason my computer was stuck back at 1:13.

Anyway, I want to know if anyone asked JZ about going no huddle, or running the shotgun, or why Kelly/DT only got 1 pass...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

the end around to ARE was a bad call, compounded by ARE's botched execution -- not throwing the ball away.

It was a bad call because you won't fool great defenses very often. Great defenses stay disciplined. Which is what happened.

I am bothered that Zorn didn't know that.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 15, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Landry acted like a spoiled A-hole and made the game all about him getting at Jacobs.


Posted by: bigfish761


Agree. Landry took the thing with Jacobs way too personal.

It's gone far enough now. He got trucked in the season opener LAST YEAR. Deal with it. He needs to get over it.

Landry getting trucked by Jacobs = Lidge giving up that HR to Pujols

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Of the available Coaches out there who would be your choice?

A. Shanahan
B. Cowher
C. Gruden
D. Mariucci

Thoughts??

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

A Kings Breakfast:

Two Fried Eggs
Corned Beef Hash
One Hashbrown
One Cheese Egg Patty
One Piece of Scrapple
One Biscuit Covered With Sausage Gravy

Posted by: RedDMV


Reid didn't do my blood pressure any favors by posting this.

Posted by: RedDMV


How you gonna go blame JReid for your blood pressure issues, Red? :)

Posted by: 4-12 | September 15, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

After Portis' big run I think it was obvious to anyone watching -- especially the Giants coaching staff -- that we were going to try to take a shot down the field. So Moss was gonna get double coverage there. Hindsight is 20/20, but the better play all along would have been three-wides and a pass over the middle to ARE or Cooley for 10-15 yards...which by the way we should have done all day until NY proved they could stop it...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

It's easy to blame the guys that you already have it out for (Campbell, Zorn) but step back and look at some of your favorites sometime and realize how sorry they can be. Take off the rose colored glasses and realize that the players we hold up so highly sometimes are the main ones letting us down.

Posted by: bigfish761 | September 15, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

A. Shanahan
B. Cowher
C. Gruden
D. Mariucci

If forced to choose, which one is the most offensive minded coach? Shanny, probably, right?? This team needs desperately to establish an offensive personality which is relevant in today's football landscape.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Oh man, scrapple isn't scrambled apples at all like it sounds like. Its pig innards & corn meal. That's some sh*t the bald dude on the Travel channel would eat. That can't be good for you at all.

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

lunch?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 15, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

If I had to choose from the list I would take Cowher.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

will,

That guy eats some f'ed up sh_t.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Hey Zorn, run plays based on the players that you have, not the ones you want.

If you were a chef and your pantry had noodles, tomatoes, cheese, and olive oil make some god diggity darn pasta....not meatloaf!

Ya Jacka$$.

Posted by: isnadd | September 15, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

First of all, "Boo" on your sorry ass for calling "scripted" plays in the first place. Calling scripted plays leads to taking a chance where the defense can align in such a way that you're SCRIPTED bs won't work, therefor leading to confusion, broken plays, turnovers, and burning timeouts. You don't call that crap in that spot at that point in the game.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse


There's nothing wrong with the concept of using scripted plays. Bill Walsh, Mike Shanahan and a number of others who are generally recognized as knowing what they're doing on offense have done and are doing it. They don't slavishly adhere to them, though. For example, they don't call a deep post on the goaline or a run off tackle on 3rd and 17. My problem with what Zorn did was not using a script, but using a gadget play as the second play of the game, especially after the long run on the first play. In my mind, you don't run that play until later in the game, when you have a sense about how the opposing secondary is reacting to end-arounds in particular, and running plays in general.

Posted by: rbpalmer | September 15, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Is Zorn too stuborn to play to the weakness of the opponent? Comeon...two gympy corners and we don't challenge them? This game is a game of matchups. The Giants exploited our weaknesses and we exploited our weaknesses too. Sherman Smith should call the plays.

Posted by: donsilvester | September 15, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I agree with the play calling was the problem crowd. Campbell to Randle El was never stopped by the defense. Watching NE last night, they just kept feeding the ball to Welker in the slot until Buffalo adjusted and then hit Moss.

Zorn was his own worst enemy calling running plays in the 2nd half when there obviously no rhythm to the offense. He should've just called pass plays for ARE and Cooley until the Giants moved a DB to the inside. This o-line has made one hole all year (including pre-season) - that first play from scrimage.

This offense has to be a pass first team to set up the run.

Posted by: bangkokben | September 15, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

zorn makes me wish for that x-giants head coach...what was his name? they interviewed him too.

Posted by: dealer1 | September 15, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Zorn has to know that a traditional running scheme/approach behind this line is a mistake? Without the 34 yard run Portis was around 1.9 yds per carry.

If a coach is going to tout and claim to do west coast the do it. Short passes to backs, TE's Davis, Cooley ... El or Moss in the slot. Then go long.

Its the offense's best best behind an aging and very limited offensive line. But pass blocking should be one of their forte's. For this line, the time of pancaking DL and LB's on running plays is long gone.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Coach Zorn says:

""The trick play was pretty sound," Zorn said the other day. "It was the right field position; it was on the script. They covered Santana, which most of the day they tried to take him out of the game. They did a good job with two guys on him. They had him covered. They had Chris Cooley covered on the play."

WRONG coach, wrong.

It should not have been on the script, it should not have been called because of exactly what happened. The risk was too high. Yes, we would have been happey if it had worked, still, wouldn't have provided a rhythm. And when it failed, it killed the game for us.

That is why I think we are in trouble. A coach who doesn't understand his mistakes.

On that second down, the Redskins could have had another run (since it already worked) or try a pass by their QB, since it was the start of the season.

FOLKS, this is serious stuff. This is the difference between 11-5 and playoffs vs 8-8 and mediocre. Redskins have had terrible coaches since Gibbs 1.0 period.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Okay, I'm just gonna put this out there. JReid is a milquetoast. I appreciate that he's not out there quoting unnamed "sources" in order to further an anti-Redskin agenda, but, man, take a stand on SOMETHING (other than turning Darrel Young into Leigh Torrence). Scoop SOMETHING. I cringe when he leads a paragraph with "Don't get me wrong..." It's like he's writing an apology to Redskins brass ahead of the post.

I was not a fan of Jasno's muckraking yellow journalism, but the guy sure knew how to stir up sh!t on the blog. The content was good, the journalism was bad. Now, I find myself skipping JReid's content and going right to the posts.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 15, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Great breakdown ! I am so posting that too the FFL's board..

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

will_ga,
Scrapple is some good stuff: part of a nutritious breakfast - along with eggs and chips, which would be my favorite breakfast. Ahhh, I can feel my arteries hardening as we speak...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

zorn makes me wish for that x-giants head coach...what was his name? they interviewed him too.

Posted by: dealer1 | September 15, 2009 1:48 PM

Me too....I am having bloggers remorse...

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Last year, we weren't ready for the opener. And we were fine by game 2. This year we weren't ready for the opener. We could be fine by game 2.

There have been many teams that have indicated that an aggressive camp in preseason, while helpful early, made it harder to compete later in the year as guys wore down. Heck, guys from last year's Skins team made the comment about how long the season was since they had 5 preseason games. Gibbs always tried to manage his teams to be strongest in December. Which meant not burning out early.

I'm not down on Zorn for this. Game conditioning might have been an issue. That'll get fixed by playing games. Soon.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 15, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Okay, I'm just gonna put this out there. JReid is a milquetoast. I appreciate that he's not out there quoting unnamed "sources" in order to further an anti-Redskin agenda, but, man, take a stand on SOMETHING (other than turning Darrel Young into Leigh Torrence). Scoop SOMETHING. I cringe when he leads a paragraph with "Don't get me wrong..." It's like he's writing an apology to Redskins brass ahead of the post.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

He's definitely softer than La Canfora, that's for sure...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

I don't think Zorn is being stubborn or evil, he just doesn't get it and he needs help.

Here we go, I have become one of the naysayers! Snyder's fault for recruiting a coach to be yesman as opposed to a coach who can lead us to success!!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Enough already.
I'm really getting tired of the old excuse, "They took away Moss, doubled him, played him underneath and over the top."
All the great WR's get doubled. You don't think Steve Smith gets doubled on every play? The key is to move your best WR around - put him in the slot, put him in the backfield, put him in motion - something to get him free. Don't make it easy on the defense by just lining him outside everytime so the D will know exactly where he is.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

4th, explain how we have a great chance without those two plays if the defense is going to be so incredibly tired by the end that we couldn't stop a dead person from getting into the end zone.

We only had any chance to win without those plays because the Gints weren't up to their game.

For all the JC haters out there. Did you ever think that if Zorn had called a good game, maybe JC wouldn't have had a reason to be scared and feel impotent? Maybe JC knew that JZ was calling a bad game, and knew that he couldn't do anything without causing total mayhem on the sideline. Another reason in that instance why JC would "go with" JZ's terrible playcalling is that maybe JC knew he didn't have enough knowledge of the playbook to call plays on his own. Bottom line - when you know your coach is putting you in a position to fail, you're most likely not going to play well and are going to forget everything good that the coach taught you.

Zorn's playcalling was atrocious and the fact that our halftime adjustments were to get MORE predictable show you how horrific he is as a playcaller. I am not saying throw him out completely. I say bring in an offensive genius to look at the offense that Zorn has, learn it quickly and to become the playcaller as an OC. This would keep everyone in the same system - no new plays to learn, nothing in the current playbook to unlearn. Instead everyone can get involved, a good mix of pass and run can be employed and we don't become so painfully predictable that having a damn cyst on your nuts is more preferable to watching the game.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | September 15, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Didn't Shanahan like to use some weird zone blocking scheme that defenses hated or was that Alex Gibbs mainly?

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

rbpalmer,
Yep, I don't think you put trick plays into your script. A script is aobut probing the other team's defense for weaknesses - or setting the stage for a trick play later...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone go to the game? The reason I ask is that some dude called into 980 and was making the point that Zorn was acting childish and petulant throughout the game - throwing his hat a la the old ball coach, not talking to his players but yelling at his assistants, etc. Maybe it was just a Gints hater - but does anyone have any idea?

Posted by: zornskins2 | September 15, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: bangkokben

dude be careful, don'tBangkok ben!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

just to distill the play calling argument to a basic question. After the 'Skins stopped the Giants on the 3 on 4th and goal, Zorn called three straight running plays - no check offs or audibles, it appeared, just going to run the ball three times.

Does anyone remember any team in a similar situation doing this?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 15, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I don't believe for a second that RedDMV thinks very highly of Coach Jim Zen.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

congrats on your win Alex -- not easy to get a 'W' when the other guys defense puts up 38(!!!!).

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 15, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Of the available Coaches out there who would be your choice?

A. Shanahan
B. Cowher
C. Gruden
D. Mariucci

Thoughts??

Posted by: BenchCampbell
____________________________

Cowher far and away # 1, Shanahan 2nd as long as he has a strong D Coordinator with him (e.g. Blache), forget the other 2.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Most teams script the first 10 or so plays, but the thing is, the 34-yard run was not to be expected. That wasn't part of the script. Once that happens, you've got to react to the situation. The ARE reverse shouldn't have been part of that.

Posted by: psps23 | September 15, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Hey! How I eat, what I eat, and how I eat it is my business.

Besides, that was just breakfast. What if I told you I only ate saltine crackers with tomato soup for dinner.

And fish and salad for dinner.

Wouldn't that balance out? Okay, maybe not, but still...

I've been arguing with Cowboy fans for the last few minutes. I SWEAR:

Residing in the DMV, but rooting for the Cowboys = Bamativity

Residing in the DMV, but never have visited Dallas, flown over Dallas, or can't find Dallas on a map of Texas = Ultimate Dóuchebaggery

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I am not saying throw him out completely. I say bring in an offensive genius to look at the offense that Zorn has, learn it quickly and to become the playcaller as an OC. This would keep everyone in the same system - no new plays to learn, nothing in the current playbook to unlearn. Instead everyone can get involved, a good mix of pass and run can be employed and we don't become so painfully predictable that having a damn cyst on your nuts is more preferable to watching the game.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | September 15, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Not sure that's very realistic...when would this "offensive genius" become the offensive coordinator? Week 3? Week 8? It takes a good chunk of time for anyone to learn a system...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

According to all the fargin geniuses on da blog, we need to pass to set up the run.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

zornskin, ugh, really, sports talk radio, first-time, long-time, this ain't the cba...get that crap outta here....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

4th, explain how we have a great chance without those two plays if the defense is going to be so incredibly tired by the end that we couldn't stop a dead person from getting into the end zone.

*******************

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | September 15, 2009 1:54 PM

Because there would have never been a 17-point lead to begin with. And that would have been 2 less turnovers.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I've been arguing with Cowboy fans for the last few minutes.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 1:58 PM

----------

God help them

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Of the available Coaches out there who would be your choice?

A. Shanahan
B. Cowher
C. Gruden
D. Mariucci

Thoughts??

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

What makes you think any of these guys wants to coach the Redskins? If Jim Schwarz and Spags took jobs with the Lions and Rams over the Skins, what makes you think DanVin would give any one of those 4 candidates the power they'd ask for and deserve?

Posted by: rich20ssu | September 15, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

chasgiffen,
I'd agree but I don't think Cowher wants to work for Snyder. Shanahan, however, has talked frequently with Snyder and I think he's the next guy up. Remember, Shanahan once worked for Al Davis, and even though the relationship didn't end well, it shows Shanahan isn't afraid to work for a meddlesome owner.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, but if the play worked, everyone would be saying, 'awesome call!' Let's just see what happens when they lose a game they are supposed to win. I never had this one in the W column...

Posted by: authorofpoetry | September 15, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn is too much of an intellectual for this game, period.

It is not necessary, really. Simply things and make sure EVERYONE has MASTERED it so they can play with visceral fortitude.

The team is going to be as strong as it weakest link. Everyone oughta be on the same page or else we cannot execute.

Zorn needs to learn how to call plays before he is given the opportunity to complicate them!

This loss was 80% due to Zorn.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Hey Red,

Where are you doing this arguing?

I wanna argue too!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn is too much of an intellectual for this game, period.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:01 PM

----------

And I think you say some very silly things, period.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone go to the game? The reason I ask is that some dude called into 980 and was making the point that Zorn was acting childish and petulant throughout the game - throwing his hat a la the old ball coach, not talking to his players but yelling at his assistants, etc. Maybe it was just a Gints hater - but does anyone have any idea?

Posted by: zornskins2 | September 15, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse


Zorn wasn't wearing a hat...but he certainly looked displeased and was stalking up and down the sidelines looking at his play card like it would give him some epiphany into how to get Moss open and protect JC...Even if/when we reel off 3-4 wins in a row, Zorn is clearly overmatched and better suited to a position coach job. That being said, is more turnover what we need when Vinny is still pulling all the strings?

Posted by: rich20ssu | September 15, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

zorn makes me wish for that x-giants head coach...what was his name? they interviewed him too.
Posted by: dealer1 | September 15, 2009 1:48 PM
Me too....I am having bloggers remorse...
Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Do you guys mean Spag.Louis or UFasseL?

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Of the available Coaches out there who would be your choice?

A. Shanahan - 1
B. Cowher - 4
C. Gruden - 2
D. Mariucci - 3


Defense really isn't the problem, but Cowher would probably try and install the 3-4 defense which I long for so much.

On a side note: I'd kill for a scrapple, egg, and cheese on wheat toast sandwich in the morning.

I know the wheat bread thing is like ordering a #3 at McDonald's then ordering a diet coke.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

-by Jason Campbell

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

It's one game. It's one game. Give this season a chance, guys. You know what Dan/Vin's problem is? Too often, it (they?) act like so many of you are acting.

"Oh my God! The season is over! We didn't beat a quality division opponent on the road in Week 1!"

Get a grip. EVER GAME REMAINING WOULD APPEAR TO BE EASIER THAN @GIANTS.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

He was supposedly yelling at Cooley when JC got sacked on 3rd down inside the redzone.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

we need to pass to set up the run.

as opposed to what chia?? just trying to line up and drive the ball down the opponents throat? 1984 called, and its not walking through that door......

This is a passing league now. Thats why this offense sucks, because we cannot pass the ball with any consistancy, nor efficiency....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

saltine crackers with tomato soup for dinner.

Uh, Red...I'm sure in time your cardiologist will explain the bad side effects of sodium. Tomato soup, while yummy, is evil.

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

EVERY GAME REMAINING WOULD APPEAR TO BE EASIER THAN @GIANTS.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:09 PM

----------

Looks can be deceiving.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

nice accent on the o in d"o"uche-baggery, RedD.

Yeh, Cowpatty fans are redik. As in diks...again.

And Zorn is just full of himself, inn't he? Straight desperate bs. No "Boy they read that one like the times" or "we need to figure out our own gameplan BEFORE gameday..."... nothin like it.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 15, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

The thing that was disappointing about Sunday's game was the way the Skins showed up for the game. There was a real need for them to make a break with the 2-6 2008 finish, to show that they had made progress with improving the passing game and to play up to the talent of their opponent, who wasn't going to give them any easy points. Instead they showed a lack of focus and pretty much handed the game to the Giants on a silver platter with a lot of boneheaded plays. Good teams just don't do that. They might make an occasional boneheaded play but the Skins made many, and you can include play calling in the assortment of boneheadedness that occurred. And the remarks that Campbell makes after the game just reinforce the impression that he is thick as brick. Better he should just answer questions with as much brevity as possible than to try and put a spin on something that is better left uncommented on, at least by him.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

FOLKS, this is serious stuff. This is the difference between 11-5 and playoffs vs 8-8 and mediocre.

Posted by: peaceful2008
____________________________

Agreed. All the comments I see saying Zorn and JC are just fine, it's just one game, etc etc... these people aren't getting it. We were dominated by the Ginas, despite the low point differential, and even thought I certainly didn't EXPECT the Skins to win against such a strong team in their stadium, the game showed fundamental problems (for me, mostly play calling) that could easily cause losses that we can't afford (i.e. against lesser teams or division opponents at Fedex).

I think of the people making those comments as the Defenders of Mediocrity.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Get a grip. EVER GAME REMAINING WOULD APPEAR TO BE EASIER THAN @GIANTS.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

What part of this looks like the same offense from last yr are you not getting? The uproar isn't about the loss, its about the offense looking just as bad as last yr after hearing all of off season on how the offense will be improved, second yr in the system, etc. Zorn's playcalling was superscary and if fans have to deal with that against every solid opponent, its gonna drive us insane.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

There are Cowboy fans all around me, family, friends, associates, co-workers, the f'n beat goes on...

Their new s*** talk tool is the new stadium, like I give a damn about a stadium.

Houston has played in a nice stadium for years. They've sucked for years. Maybe the Cowboys can share that distinction also.

Gawd I hope the Giants WRECK the Cowboys Sunday night. It's always funny trying to find these buttholes after a loss, and when you do they all have the sad face.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

UFasseL?


Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 2:05 PM

THAT GUY.....YES HIM....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Who broke the blog?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

On a side note: I'd kill for a scrapple, egg, and cheese on wheat toast sandwich in the morning.

I know the wheat bread thing is like ordering a #3 at McDonald's then ordering a diet coke.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:07 PM

8% Red? Are you as surprised as i that no one is calling you out on this?

Posted by: mack1 | September 15, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

chasgiffen,
I'd agree but I don't think Cowher wants to work for Snyder. Shanahan, however, has talked frequently with Snyder and I think he's the next guy up. Remember, Shanahan once worked for Al Davis, and even though the relationship didn't end well, it shows Shanahan isn't afraid to work for a meddlesome owner.

Posted by: RedSkinHead
_______________________

I think Cowher might consider it if he got Gibbs-type control, which I think Danny would offer him. I also think that now that Danny has learned a bit about ownership, we could have much worse. He's still a puttzz, but he loves the Skins and he's obviously very good at marketing and making money... that's how he made himself a billionaire... and these things help the team. I also like his aggressiveness, which is now being far better applied than it used to be (e.g. Haynesworth).

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

just to distill the play calling argument to a basic question. After the 'Skins stopped the Giants on the 3 on 4th and goal, Zorn called three straight running plays - no check offs or audibles, it appeared, just going to run the ball three times.

Does anyone remember any team in a similar situation doing this?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston
-------------------------

No.

It is the clear evidence of a coach playing not to lose. No confidence in his team. An if he hadn't called that idiotic ARE play. JC wouldn't have to throw his first pass of the game in that situation.

Zorn called the most idiotic game period

How do you like that Chi-Freakin-Pet?

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Next time you're tempted to watch the talking heads -- in politics, sports, or anything else for that matter -- keep this in mind:
Real Time Polling

I don't know how you can separate Zorn and JC. It's the combination that makes the difference -- and it needs to improve. If I knew whether it was play calling vs. QB vs. whatever else, it probably wouldn't be posted on a blog. Or if it was, I would use a handle like 'footballguy01242', just to establish the additional blog cred.

Posted by: daggar | September 15, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

"What part of this looks like the same offense from last yr are you not getting?"

Does it? CP averaged 1.9 YPC on his final 15 carries (after 34 yards on his first). Is that what we saw last year?

Jason Campbell averaged 8.1 yards per attempt, vs. his 6.5 last season. He also had 2 turnovers -- as opposed to zero in the first 8 weeks last year.

Randle El, working in the slot, caught 7 balls for 98 yards. Was that a familiar sight?

The only method of moving the ball the Skins had was through the air, not on the ground. Did that remind you of last year?

The offense struggled -- but it was FAR different from the same issues as last season. The offense looks markedly different, and that's what everyone is missing. Fix the isolated mental errors, and this offense can take off.

Posted by: psps23 | September 15, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

EVERY GAME REMAINING WOULD APPEAR TO BE EASIER THAN @GIANTS.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:09 PM

----------

Looks can be deceiving.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

That's why I said "would appear" but you have to admit that the best educated guess at this point would be that we won't face another game that tough unless we make the playoffs.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

The fundamental question here is that if the play call was so stupid and should never have been used there, then do you really think the defense was expecting that kind of play to be called at that point?

No way. The blame goes to ARE for not throwing it away when nothing was there. No way is that Jim Zorn's fault. It wasn't the play call, it was the execution. That's on the players.

Posted by: saltine182 | September 15, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Of the available Coaches out there who would be your choice?

A. Shanahan
B. Cowher
C. Gruden
D. Mariucci

Thoughts??

Posted by: BenchCampbell
----

A,B, or C would be great, if they are given GM and HC title/authority.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

And it's not one game. It's one season, an offseason, and the beginning of a new one... with no progress.

Do you read the complaints and analysis or just dismiss it outright?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 15, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

The Skins OL did better than I thought they would at pass protection...so that was the only pleasant surprise.

As for run blocking...not so much.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 15, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

I think Cowher might consider it if he got Gibbs-type control, which I think Danny would offer him.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:19 PM |

The thing about Cowher is that he is ensconced in NC and after the Panthers stinker on Sunday him replacing Fox after 2009 (or maybe even during) is starting to look better and better.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

To me NE ranks up there with the girls, iggls and ginas in the hate meter. But look at the difference in Brady and what we have.

From PFT:

Brady called his shot
Posted by Mike Florio on September 15, 2009 12:33 PM ET
Though he didn't point to the center field wall at Gillette Stadium in the waning moments of Monday night's thrilling win over the Bills, Patriots quarterback Tom Brady impersonated Babe Ruth for a much smaller audience.

Per Peter King of SI.com, Brady entered the huddle with 5:32 remaining and his team trailing by 11 points, and he delivered an unequivocal message to the rest of the offense.

"Get your hats on,'' Brady said. "We're gonna score before the two-minute warning, get the ball back, then we're gonna score again and win this thing!''

(In an unrelated note, Matt Hasselbeck just shifted in his chair.)

"He knew," receiver Randy Moss said after the game, according to King. "When you got a guy like that, speaking like that, leading you like that, there ain't nothing for the other 10 of us to do but shut up and go out and make plays.''

They did, and they pulled it off.

And so while the scoreboard doesn't indicate it, Brady has returned with a bang as loud as a blowout would have created. Arguably, last night's outcome will resonate even more loudly within the Patriots' locker room.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

The offense struggled -- but it was FAR different from the same issues as last season. The offense looks markedly different, and that's what everyone is missing. Fix the isolated mental errors, and this offense can take off.

Posted by: psps23 | September 15, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Slice it up anyway you want to. But look at the bottom line: Can't get in the endzone, poor playcalling, running game stagnant, etc. Just like last yr. And I'm referring to the same offense from last season's second half.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

And rogers lets another one go right through his hands

Posted by: Skins281 | September 15, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

First of all, did you watch the Patriots game last night?

Now that's a team that can pull off the whole pass to set up the run thing. The Patriots, it would appear, don't need to run the ball at all. They can just pass to set up the pass.

The Redskins haven't established that they're capable of this feat. We racked up some modest yardage against the Giants. JC threw for a high percentage, but we have never consistently moved the chains by passing the ball, nor have we ever put up many points in this manner.

Without the threat of a run, what good will it do to pass, pass, run?

In theory, yes, I too would like to see us pass to set up the run, but in all reality, I question the efficacy of this tact, for this team, at this time.

As Chris Samuels said post game, when asked if this offense had established an identity yet, he answered, without hesitation:

Yes. We are a running team.

Problem is our O-Line gets no push off the line of scrimmage, which is a big problem, but I'm not sure how going pass happy all of a sudden solves anything...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

if they are given GM and HC title/authority.
This confuses me... take two really hard jobs and give them to one person? Where has this worked, and where has this failed utterly?

It seems to me that there are a lot of pretty solid coaches, with rings and all, that don't get to go back to the Big Game when they put on that extra hat.

Posted by: daggar | September 15, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

With the Giants top-notch defense and second-to-none running game, the Redskins were in big trouble after the Giants set the tone in the first quarter. The trick play definitely didn't help the Redskins.
--------------------------------------------

I would not call that running game great but I would say it was productive. The Defense just need more stops and the offensive just need to make plays....

Posted by: thebanker21 | September 15, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Get a grip. EVER GAME REMAINING WOULD APPEAR TO BE EASIER THAN @GIANTS.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

What part of this looks like the same offense from last yr are you not getting? The uproar isn't about the loss, its about the offense looking just as bad as last yr after hearing all of off season on how the offense will be improved, second yr in the system, etc. Zorn's playcalling was superscary and if fans have to deal with that against every solid opponent, its gonna drive us insane.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Again. It looked like last year in ONE GAME. This offense didn't look so bad against "quality opponents" when we won @ Philly and @ Dallas last year. The starters broke down. That is what happened. I fully expect a similar start to last year: a flat effort at the opener in the Meadowlands (where we never play well) followed up by significant improvement once adjustments are made. The question will be, after the bye are we healthy enough to avoid a collapse.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

PSP problem is the Coach is making the mental errors with his weak gameplan... The Redskins offense has looked totally disjointed during the Zorn era

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

For all the talk about Portis' arrogance(and he is), Zorn is just as, if not more arrogant than Portis.

Portis didn't go to the media first about them not seeing things the same way. Zorn did.

Portis wasn't making innuendos and throwing subliminal through the media. That was Zorn.

My fault if I seem like on this non-stop Zorn attack, but I think the dude showed me who he really was last season. And him being a first year head coach had nothing to do with it.

Zorn lacks leadership, first and foremost. The rest of his shortcomings just fall into place after that.

If he, as peaceful2008 put it: "just doesn't get it and he needs help.",he needs to clean out his office and be shown the door, plain and simple.

***Anti-Zorn bashing off***

For today.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

The offense struggled -- but it was FAR different from the same issues as last season. The offense looks markedly different, and that's what everyone is missing. Fix the isolated mental errors, and this offense can take off.

Posted by: psps23 | September 15, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Agreed PSP, we actually moved the ball pretty well most of the game through the air, we just kept making the big mistake and killing ourselves.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

I know many players made mistakes in this game, but the playcalling is what killed it.

You don't need to have a perfect game from everyone in order to win. And you are not going to win every game even if you don't make mistakes.

But if you call a crappy game, you are most likely to fail no matter what.

And the way coach Zorn sounds, he doesn't get it!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

***Anti-Zorn bashing off***

For today.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Thank Gawd...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:26 PM

Sorry Chia, that is a coaching thing. Zorn is showing he cannot teach his offense to the players. Not sure he can even teach his offense to the other coaches.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"Yes. We are a running team.

Problem is our O-Line gets no push off the line of scrimmage, which is a big problem"

Oh, thanks for clarifying. So we have an oline that seemed to pass block well against what could be the best DL, in the league, and we struggled to run the ball.

Let me clarify, we SHOULD BE more of a passing team. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason we aren't putting up 300 plus yards on offense each week through the air. NO. REASON. AT. ALL.

So what I'm saying is ADAPT, and BECOME a passing team. What you're saying is keep smashing portis for 1-2 yard gains. Right.

The reason we can't run block is that there are 8 guys in the box. UNTIL we move them out of there, UNTIL they are FORCED to respect the passing game, we're DOOMED on offense.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Remember, Shanahan once worked for Al Davis, and even though the relationship didn't end well, it shows Shanahan isn't afraid to work for a meddlesome owner.

Posted by: RedSkinHead

That was back in the day when he was an unknown asst. And Davis did give him the boot because he did not lick them. Now Shanana has two rings and things are different.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

I haven't reviewed all the posts in this thread, so I'm probably repeating something someone has already discussed.

The outcome of this game is totally different if Rogers actually CATCHES that interception in the first quarter and takes it to the house. Forget about the questionable Randle El play call. An early defensive strike like that knocks the wind out of the Giants and gives the Redskins momentum -- not only for the game, but for the season. That missed INT and the missed INT against the 'Hawks in the playoffs a couple years ago are unacceptable (says the guy who sits in a cube all day).

Posted by: MyRedStapler | September 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

A. Cowher
B. Grimm
C. Shanahan
D. Dungy
E. Holmgren
F. Gruden

Also here was a list of 10 prospect head coaches from early this year a bunch of them are still candidates for 2010.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/87857-top-10-nfl-head-coaching-prospects-for-2009

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Ok, I'm disappointed in the loss but I'm not ready to give up on the season after 1 game. True fans don't give up after 1 game!!!! Get a grip, 1 game, we have time to make up for it, we didn't play good and should have won!!!!!

Posted by: jcrabbe1 | September 15, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

The trick play was pretty sound," Zorn said the other day. "It was the right field position; it was on the script.

Could it be that the script was wrong.


Posted by: jmy999 | September 15, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Here's what I want to believe -- the Redskins played a bad game on the road against a very good team. I also want Zorn to call a "genius" game and make RedDMV look like a d-bag for repeatedly calling JZ a d-bag. Right now, he's just making Red look, well, right.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I was rooting for keeping the staff for at least one more year, but after the play calling I saw on Sunday I'm already beginning to regret that.

The one change I would have been happy about is if they brought in Spagnolo. Not only is the guy a defensive genius, he knows the Giants defense, and that would have helped us out twice a year. And he knows the eagles and cowboys from playing in our division. That would have been the money HC pickup, if you ask me.

Considering the possibilities for next year, I would initially say Shanna, because he's not as far removed from the job as Cowher. But on the other hand, thanks to Zorn our players are lackadaisical and without passion. For that reason, I think we NEED a Bill Cowher type coach. That guy's got one hell of an angry face.

Posted by: rexforab | September 15, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

The reason we can't run block is that there are 8 guys in the box. UNTIL we move them out of there, UNTIL they are FORCED to respect the passing game, we're DOOMED on offense.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 2:32 PM |

Agreed. Deja view all over again. Stop Portis and Moss and you stop the Skins. The middle was open all day and it took the Skins 3 3/4 qtrs to figure that out.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

I know many players made mistakes in this game, but the playcalling is what killed it.

You don't need to have a perfect game from everyone in order to win. And you are not going to win every game even if you don't make mistakes.

But if you call a crappy game, you are most likely to fail no matter what.

And the way coach Zorn sounds, he doesn't get it!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

You don't even know what plays were called. That's why I always find this criticism hilarious.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins haven't established that they're capable of this feat. We racked up some modest yardage against the Giants. JC threw for a high percentage, but we have never consistently moved the chains by passing the ball, nor have we ever put up many points in this manner.

Chi-Chi Pet
-------------

We have not accomplished anything in the passing game BECAUSE we do not pass the ball, are you blind?

Zorn, I think, has never called two passing plays in a row (that would be a felony in Zornville)

If anything, it is much harder to use the running game to set up the pass. You need a studly OL and a stud RB. If it were easy, most teams wouldn't be passing the ball!

There is the ghost of Gibbs 1.0 here in DC haunting us with this runinggame crappski

How can any QB, or OL accomplish a passing success if they are not allowed to pass?

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

8% Red? Are you as surprised as i that no one is calling you out on this?

Posted by: mack1


It was three or four years ago, so that would've made me 22 or 21 at the time. Not a whole lot of mass to me either, like if I lifted weights like that, I'll never be one of the diesel dudes.

I was still in the Army at the time also. Lots, and lots of running. It wasn't like I was a swoll like that coming in.

I can admit it now, but back then for my first APFT I did one, count 'em ONE push-up.

However, I think now since I don't exercise like that, I'll say it's probably like at 13, 15 percent.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Get a grip. EVER GAME REMAINING WOULD APPEAR TO BE EASIER THAN @GIANTS.

Posted by: mhaslup1
_________________________

You must be looking at someone else's schedule. After the Bye, we have only 2 "weak" teams (Broncos, Raiders) out of 9 games. And before the Bye, we have the Beagles.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

For that reason, I think we NEED a Bill Cowher type coach. That guy's got one hell of an angry face.

Posted by: rexforab | September 15, 2009 2:35 PM |

And a jutting jaw and spittle galore.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

feel free to laugh mhaslup1!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Crabby wtSJK?! What were you watching? Why should we have won that game? They had us at every corner.

It's not about giving up or not - it's about the complete lack of progress, the same old same old.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 15, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

And regarding Carlos Rogers' hands... from now on, he shall be known as the fearsome Manos de Piedra!!!

(think Roberto Duran...)

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Some of the posters are basing the game on what they saw in the fourth quarter. Guys, throw out the fourth quarter. The Giants were playing soft zone and just trying not to leave with injuries in the fourth quarter. They had the game won. They didn't blitz as much. It was easy for Campbell at that point. In the first three quarters JC stunk.

Is it me or does anyone else think that JC is afraid of throwing into man coverage? When another team is in zone defense he has a far easier time making the decision to pull the trigger, but when the receivers are locked up in man coverage, he hesitates. I can't believe it is because the receivers cannot get separation in man coverage. They have some speedsters.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 15, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

What Zorn and this team seem to fail to realize is that this is a passing league now. You throw to set up the run. If you watch the Patriots, Brady just stands there in the shotgun every play and surveys the field, then goes to work. Seven-yard hitch, 10-yard slant, middle tight end screen, deep in route , etc. Zorn needs to be AGGRESSIVE instead of passive. For once, I would love to see Campbell just come out and start a game with 10 straight passes, even dinks and dunks if necessary. Put the D on its heels from the start. If a first down pass is incomplete or gains two yards, there is no need to run on 2nd and 10 or 2nd and 8. Be aggressive JZ.

Posted by: quinn3 | September 15, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

The reason we can't run block is that there are 8 guys in the box. UNTIL we move them out of there, UNTIL they are FORCED to respect the passing game, we're DOOMED on offense.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 2:32 PM

----------

The saw cuts both ways.

Go pass happy, and you have the defense sitting on our routes.

You need a balanced attack, unless you're the New England Patriots.

Our pass pro was good for one game, but can it sustain for the whole season within a pass happy offense.

Oh, I know, just line up JC out of the shotgun.

Problem solved!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Get a grip. EVER GAME REMAINING WOULD APPEAR TO BE EASIER THAN @GIANTS.

Posted by: mhaslup1
_________________________

You must be looking at someone else's schedule. After the Bye, we have only 2 "weak" teams (Broncos, Raiders) out of 9 games. And before the Bye, we have the Beagles.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Did you read what I said? I didn't say every game was easy, just easIER than @Giants. Giants are at least as good, probably better than the Eagles and we certainly have a harder time in the meadowlands than we do at home (or in philly or dallas).

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"You don't even know what plays were called. That's why I always find this criticism hilarious"

Considering that the Giants were playing backup corners, wouldn't it have been prudent to go right at the corners to throw at them, to spread the defense out so that the running game had at least a chance?? Also considering that MK/DT seemed to be taking steps, this pre-season, why only 1 play combined in their direction??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

mattylight, go gargle sulfuric acid.

Oh, and f Zorn.

Regards,

RedDMV

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

For that reason, I think we NEED a Bill Cowher type coach. That guy's got one hell of an angry face.

Posted by: rexforab | September 15, 2009 2:35 PM |

And a jutting jaw and spittle galore.

Posted by: TLoad

If Zorn could use spittle to his advantage, I think we could go 11-5 this year. His only move is the doe-eyes.

Posted by: rexforab | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

We have not accomplished anything in the passing game BECAUSE we do not pass the ball, are you blind?

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:37 PM

---------

Silly boy.

Of course I'm not blind?

Why?

Are you stoooooopid?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Ok, I'm disappointed in the loss but I'm not ready to give up on the season after 1 game. True fans don't give up after 1 game!!!! Get a grip, 1 game, we have time to make up for it, we didn't play good and should have won!!!!!

Posted by: jcrabbe1
---

You are absolutely right, if, the team recognizes its mistakes and attempts to correct them. Our problem is a coach who doesn't see where he went wrong, so he'll make the same mistakes again. We'll lead Rams by 4 points and start kneeling in the third quarter!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Let's not make more of this than it was...it was a decent call, but Randle-El made a mistake that cost us momentum.

It was a HUGE mistake that a veteran should

Posted by: rickyroge | September 15, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and f Zorn.

Regards,

RedDMV

Posted by: RedDMV

Can I get "F ZORN" on a license plate?

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

mattylight, go gargle sulfuric acid.

Oh, and f Zorn.

Regards,

RedDMV

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Not sure which post that was in reference to...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

If Zorn could use spittle to his advantage, I think we could go 11-5 this year. His only move is the doe-eyes.

Posted by: rexforab | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Right now I understand we have a few position coaches that are amazing at spit bubbles.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

You don't even know what plays were called. That's why I always find this criticism hilarious.

Posted by: mhaslup1
________________________

Unless of course you watch the plays that are run.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Why was Chris Horton out most of the second half? I didn't hear he was hurt or anything, he's to good to not be playing!!

Posted by: jcrabbe1 | September 15, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Geez, Red, you're gonna have a coronary.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 1:14 PM |

Doctors have been advising their at-risk patients to avoid town hall meetings because their heart can't take it. Do they now need to extend that advice to watching Skins games as well?

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"You don't even know what plays were called. That's why I always find this criticism hilarious"

Considering that the Giants were playing backup corners, wouldn't it have been prudent to go right at the corners to throw at them, to spread the defense out so that the running game had at least a chance?? Also considering that MK/DT seemed to be taking steps, this pre-season, why only 1 play combined in their direction??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

You're just naive about what a "play" is. Let me educate. There are ordinarily multiple options on each play. If we didn't pass it downfield enough, it does not mean they didn't call plays with downfield options. If MK/DT didn't get the ball, it doesn't mean they didn't call the "MK/DT plays." It could be that Campbell wasnt agressive enough. It could be that the Giants safeties played back and forced us underneath. It could be that MK/DT (and Moss for that matter) just didn't get open.

We dropped back to pass 29 times versus on 21 runs, so it's not like we were run-heavy.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

No, I pointed this out yesterday evening. Chia's can see, but they have a very narrow field of view.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 15, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Did you read what I said? I didn't say every game was easy, just easIER than @Giants. Giants are at least as good, probably better than the Eagles and we certainly have a harder time in the meadowlands than we do at home (or in philly or dallas).

Posted by: mhaslup1
________________________

Read what you said, it was self-evident you were implying much easier... otherwise why make the comment? D'oh!

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

"Oh, I know, just line up JC out of the shotgun.

Problem solved"

How about we try it for a change?? I mean, because you know how being a running team has worked out for us....

So what you're advocating is keep doing the same thing that they've been doing, running, with no success, and hope that it works....right, you know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

You don't even know what plays were called. That's why I always find this criticism hilarious.

Posted by: mhaslup1
________________________

Unless of course you watch the plays that are run.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I didn't realize you were charting all of the routes. Seeing where the ball goes (which is what you see on TV) does not equal knowing what play was run genius.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Note to coach Zorn:

I overheard this secret conversation at Rams headquarters, so I thought I would share it with you to help with your gameplanning (in case you actually game plan for the opponents)

Rams person: I think the Redskins are going to run the ball off tackle

Rams other-person: Yeah, I have that hunch too. Let's try to stuff the run against them.

Rams person: Agreed, let's keep 9 in the box

Rams other-person: Also, if they ever get a first down, they will always run

Rams person: Right, let's play the run after their first downs


I hope this helps Zorny

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Did you read what I said? I didn't say every game was easy, just easIER than @Giants. Giants are at least as good, probably better than the Eagles and we certainly have a harder time in the meadowlands than we do at home (or in philly or dallas).

Posted by: mhaslup1
________________________

Read what you said, it was self-evident you were implying much easier... otherwise why make the comment? D'oh!

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't implying much easier. Lost by siz. As terrible as they played it came down to an onside kick. Given that, even the fact that the remaining games appear SLIGHTLY easier is significant.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Definition of insanity:

Run the ball over and over and over into a wall!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Sorry Chia, that is a coaching thing. Zorn is showing he cannot teach his offense to the players. Not sure he can even teach his offense to the other coaches.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 2:30 PM

----------

OK, Curz.

You dried those buds already?

and smoked 'em?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

My guess to as why Chris Horton was out.. We were behind, when the jints are ahead they are gonna run the ball, so put in the better run stopper at safety, Doughty.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

My guess to as why Chris Horton was out.. We were behind, when the jints are ahead they are gonna run the ball, so put in the better run stopper at safety, Doughty.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

mattylight, It was apparent my Zorn ripping was hurting your eyes... like you were losing vision by the word. If nothing was meant by it, my fault. But on RI, you gotta guard your grill so to speak.

kb, no I wouldn't even think about getting a "F Zorn" license plate.

He'll be gone before at the end of the year at the latest.

I can hope anyway.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

The offense struggled -- but it was FAR different from the same issues as last season. The offense looks markedly different, and that's what everyone is missing. Fix the isolated mental errors, and this offense can take off.

Posted by: psps23 | September 15, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Agreed PSP, we actually moved the ball pretty well most of the game through the air, we just kept making the big mistake and killing ourselves.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 2:29 PM

I partially agree with this, we did look different for a while until the offense fell into the same predictability as last year. Run, run, pass...repeat

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

mattylight, go gargle sulfuric acid.

Oh, and f Zorn.

Regards,

RedDMV

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV,

Put down the fork and go run a few laps on the treadmill.

Regards,

mattylight

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

You know its funny, that play was really the one of the few I didn't have an issue with.....would I have preferred just continuing straight up football with another CP run or a play action pass or something at that time sure....but I have been wishing for some creativity and aggressiveness and that was an effort at it, the result of that play and the momentum killing was on ARE, if he just throws it away its second and 10 no big deal....my problem with the play calling was the rest of the game (except the fake FG) was vanilla and back to the old run run pass punt routine. We rarely spread out the Giants D, no empty backfield shotgun stuff, no hurry up, no urgency and little attack mode the rest of the game. The D makes a huge stop on 4th down and we go slam into the line 3 times and punt it back to them in our territory.....JZ's play calling was extremely poor, but that one is getting blown out of proportion because ARE made a really dumb mistake.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 15, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

"Brady called his shot
Posted by Mike Florio on September 15, 2009 12:33 PM ET"

Puh-leeze. If Leodis McKelvin hadn't made a bonehead decision, we'd be talking about how the Pats were in for a long season.

A team that wins like that is a team that realizes they actually lost the game, except for dumb luck (or in McKelvin's case, just plain dumb).

Brady was just BSing the troops for a final effort. In the great tradition of generals, field and otherwise...

Posted by: Samson151 | September 15, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Considering that the Giants were playing backup corners, wouldn't it have been prudent to go right at the corners to throw at them, to spread the defense out so that the running game had at least a chance?? Also considering that MK/DT seemed to be taking steps, this pre-season, why only 1 play combined in their direction??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM |

Good point. The flip side is that the Giants were trotting out no-name WRs that our "Pro Bowl" CBs should have shut down like an Elliot Ness Speakeasy. Unfortunately that didn't happen either.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Not sure which post that was in reference to...
Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 2:44 PM |

Does it really matter. I'm thinking F Zorn is pretty universal from now on.

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I didn't realize you were charting all of the routes. Seeing where the ball goes (which is what you see on TV) does not equal knowing what play was run genius.

Posted by: mhaslup1
_______________________

Ah look, another tough guy blogger. Look, house plant, pass route options aren't all of play-calling... did you forget running plays? the concept of play-action passes? misdirection plays? and on passes, well how many reads do you think JC was going thru on average on Sunday? 4? try 1 to 2. Almost all of the play-calling was indeed evident from watching the plays.

Now get some water and light, and come back when you're intelligent.

SNAP!

(end tough-guy blogger response to tough-guy blogger)

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Does it really matter. I'm thinking F Zorn is pretty universal from now on.

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

So true, so very true...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Zorn still doesn't get it, even after a couple of days reflection.

He doesn't understand that his playcalling in several significant instances undercut his own quarterback on the field and in front of his teammates.

This is one of the reasons I am starting to believe strongly that Zorn is not HC material.

He just lacks the sense of how to manage PEOPLE and motivate them to achieve.

This team came out flat against the Giants across the board and that is not the first time that has happened since Zorn has been the coach.

Gibbs never got this team back to 14-2 in his second stint, but the team rarely showed the kind of lack of focus and concentration that we have seen under Zorn in the second half of 2008 and in the opener in 2009.

And beating the Rams at home, who lost last week 28-0 to the Seahawks, is NOT proof that things have changed.

The Redskins at home with better talent across the board SHOULD beat the Rams, even if the team has to bring Zorn along kicking and screaming from the sidelines.

Posted by: leopard09 | September 15, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Is it me or does anyone else think that JC is afraid of throwing into man coverage? When another team is in zone defense he has a far easier time making the decision to pull the trigger, but when the receivers are locked up in man coverage, he hesitates. I can't believe it is because the receivers cannot get separation in man coverage. They have some speedsters.

Posted by: RedSkinHead
------------------

It is you.

JC could suck as you say, but we never know because we don't call plays where he can be successful. We call plays that Zorn thinks SHOULD be successful while he is dosing off at his computer screen. We also don't throw consistently for a receiver to get any advantage over the cornerback. Redskins are single-handedly trying to create a new game where there is no pass plays.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Any time that JC makes a mistake, Zorn takes the ball out of his hands and gets into a heavy dose of run plays.

JC, like any QB will make some mistakes. This team is built to pass the ball, then run. If he does not trust JC, then put TC in. But DO NOT run with 8 or more in the box. That's just stoopid!

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

kb, no I wouldn't even think about getting a "F Zorn" license plate.

He'll be gone before at the end of the year at the latest.

I can hope anyway.

Posted by: RedDMV

Agreed. Getting an F ZORN license plate is like buying an Adam Archuleta jersey.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

tload, thats on blache for not putting the corners, up in bump and run, but essentially you agree with me and you made my point for me, we should have spread them out, and thrown the ball more. You look at your opponent, you find their weakness, then you EXPLOIT that weakness, until they have to adapt to your game plan. We needed to be PRO-ACTIVE, about this, and we weren't. I'm not even sure we were Re-Active enough...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

but the team rarely showed the kind of lack of focus and concentration that we have seen under Zorn in the second half of 2008 and in the opener in 2009.

Posted by: leopard09 | September 15, 2009 2:57 PM

---------

Not true.

The Gibbs led bunch was pretty much asleep at the wheel with the exception of the four games win streak after the loss of Sean Taylor.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

mattylight, go gargle sulfuric acid.

Regards,

RedDMV

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 2:41 PM |

Mr. Red. This gargling with sulfuric assid is getting a little long in the tooth don't you think? It wasn't very ha ha to begin with.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

mhaslup1, the beef about the play-calling is referred to spots during the game which certain plays are called.

Two sequences standout in particular:

1) The ARE gadget play

2) The Portis on first down. Portis on second down. Portis on third down.

That's the stuff what people are talking about when it comes to Zorn and his play/signal or whatever calling.

You talk about what we at home are able to see, well the average football fan can spot certain alignments and sets, and over the last few years they've developed instant replay. So we can, you know, see where the ball was thrown to.

Another thing about the play-calling is that you see QBs like Brady, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, McNabb, Brees, and Rivers in shot gun formations frequently. Fans want to know why isn't JC in the gun more often.

Those things tie in directly with scheme, play-calling, and adjustments. Things that are on ZORN!

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Ah look, another tough guy blogger. Look, house plant, pass route options aren't all of play-calling... did you forget running plays? the concept of play-action passes? misdirection plays? and on passes, well how many reads do you think JC was going thru on average on Sunday? 4? try 1 to 2. Almost all of the play-calling was indeed evident from watching the plays.

Now get some water and light, and come back when you're intelligent.

SNAP!

(end tough-guy blogger response to tough-guy blogger)

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Lol. You wanted more play action when the run was getting stuffed? They ran a ton of misdirection (the option pass for one). Unless you are JC you have no idea how many reads he was going through. For that matter, even if he did only go through 1 or 2 progressions, how do you know that is all the play called for (i.e., how do you know it was the "playcalling" and not the "execution")? You're out of your depth "tough guy."

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

leopard09, hate to agree with you, but have to.

I think if Redskins do not DOMINATE the Rams, we haven't answered anything. And if we barely squeak by the Rams, and Detroit, then a coaching-consultant must be brought in

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV isn't interested in being ha ha.

He's more the hit you over the head with an I Beam type.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Come on Peeps. What coach do you know that would ever come out and say "Yeah guys. I called some horrible plays out there and it's all my fault that we lost".

Get real. Even of the guy does realize he sucks he won't come out and say it.

F Landry at FS! F D Hall!

Posted by: bigfish761 | September 15, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

mhaslup1, the beef about the play-calling is referred to spots during the game which certain plays are called.

Two sequences standout in particular:

1) The ARE gadget play

2) The Portis on first down. Portis on second down. Portis on third down.

Well we actually tried 29 pass plays to only 21 runs. So I don't think that is accurate and the "gadget" play didn't work so the playcalling cost us a down, poor execution by ARE cost us the 10 yards (and effectively ended the drive). Even replay doesn't give you the full picture of what the play is designed to do. If the deep receiver doesn't get open, was it a bad play call or bad execution. The only honest answer is you have no idea.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Ahhhhh, the infamous shotgun theory!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV,

Put down the fork and go run a few laps on the treadmill.

Regards,

mattylight

Posted by: mattylight

Good stuff. When you put your biz out there, you get exposed.

Except that I'm probably slimmer than you. I go back and forth between 197 and 201. Most of the time it's under 200. You're probably older than me as well, so metabolism waived bye-bye a minute ago for you.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

ok, can we clarify on this sulphuric acid for a second, I need something answered:

Is this spend sulphuric, or virgin
What percentage of acid, more than 51%, or not more than 51%

If we spill this stuff we're going to need to protect .4miles downwind during the day, and 1.0 miles downwind during the night......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Except that I'm probably slimmer than you. I go back and forth between 197 and 201. Most of the time it's under 200. You're probably older than me as well, so metabolism waived bye-bye a minute ago for you.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Nah, 26 years old and 160...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Well we actually tried 29 pass plays to only 21 runs. So I don't think that is accurate and the "gadget" play didn't work so the playcalling cost us a down, poor execution by ARE cost us the 10 yards (and effectively ended the drive). Even replay doesn't give you the full picture of what the play is designed to do. If the deep receiver doesn't get open, was it a bad play call or bad execution. The only honest answer is you have no idea.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:04 PM |

You aren't getting the full picture. The reason that pass plays outnumber runs is because we got behind enough that we had to pass every down. If you watched the game from the beginning you would have noticed the pattern of run, run, pass was very prevalent through the whole first half and into the second. The last drive had how many passes and how many runs? Take that drive away and passes to runs are equal. That's usually a good thing except that a couple of drives had to be more pass than run to try and catch up.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

I don't think we called enough "32 Stack Left Boot Tango." That play always works.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Like any other "organization' responsibility for success starts at the top.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I didn't think you could roid out on a thread. I was wrong...

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 15, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Philadelphia activated quarterback Michael Vick from its exempt list, meaning he now is allowed to practice with the team and will begin doing so Wednesday, a league source said Tuesday.

To create room on its roster for Vick, the Eagles plan to release wide receiver Hank Baskett, whom the team has been trying to trade.

So now, when the Eagles practice Wednesday, Vick and Jeff Garcia will be a part of the quarterback rotation, though Donovan McNabb will not be. He is nursing a cracked rib that could prevent him from playing Sunday's game.

Adam Schefter is an ESPN NFL Insider.

Posted by: jm220 | September 15, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

And from the pages of the Steve Spurrier cook book:

When all else fails, as it often does, line the QB up out of the shotgun formation, and air it out to one of the 5 wide receivers.

Now we're cookin' with gas!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Mr. Red. This gargling with sulfuric assid is getting a little long in the tooth don't you think? It wasn't very ha ha to begin with.


Posted by: TLoad


Okay.

Duly noted, TLoad.

Speaking of loads..

TLoad, your mother has cöckbreath, and breaths with her mouth open.

Is that new and knee-slapping enough for you, dìckwad?

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I hear Dan Snyder has a thing on his desk that says: The Buck Stops in my Pocket.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

The offense struggled -- but it was FAR different from the same issues as last season. The offense looks markedly different, and that's what everyone is missing. Fix the isolated mental errors, and this offense can take off.

Posted by: psps23 | September 15, 2009,/i>

Actually the offense is very different. The line last year with Jansen could run the ball. They were poorer on pass protection. This one looks to be stronger in pass protection than with running the ball.

A true west coast offense that features short passing on 1st and 2nd down theoretically could work given the line, and guys like ARE, Cooley, Betts, and Davis. I believe Portis could be good at this if he was so inclined. But I sincerely doubt he would be so inclined.

Be better to have Portis at 50-70 yard with a 7.2 yds/carry average because the other team wasn't expecting the draw play et al.

Campbell's scrambling ability could be a real advantage in that offense.

If you are west coast, then do west coast. Stop trying to run Gibbs offense when you don't have the line necessary to make it work.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

This from Wash Times (O'Halloran blog):

"DEFENSE

(64 snaps, which includes three penalties)

DL: Albert Haynesworth 46, Phillip Daniels 43, Cornelius Griffin 51, Andre Carter 61, Lorenzo Alexander 17, Kedric Golston 26, Jeremy Jarmon 9.

LB: London Fletcher 64, Rocky McIntosh 57, Brian Orakpo 54, Chris Wilson 10.

DB: Carlos Rogers 59, DeAngelo Hall 62, Fred Smoot 12, LaRon Landry 63, Reed Doughty 30, Chris Horton 40.

Analysis: Other media will make a big deal out of Haynesworth's playing time but he played 72 percent of the snaps -- that will be the norm this season. Just because he's making $41 million guaranteed doesn't mean his playing time should jump to Andre Carter territory. Every team in the league has a defensive tackle rotation. ... Fletcher was the only defensive player to play every snap ... Interesting situation at safety. Horton started but played only five snaps in the last six drives."

Haynesworth took 72% of snaps. Only 5 snaps less than Griff. Everyone who cracks on Haynesworth for rotating out can go F themselves. Lavar can go F himself with a large soup bone.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

The gadget should have been a flea-flicker. That would have worked, I swear.

Play calling seemed a little stubborn, like going left all the time with CP. Of course, he lost 3 going right near the goal line. The TV showed Zorn yelling after that play, either at Cooley or at Heyer. One of those two guys should have blocked the DE, but didn't.

Coaches: Cowher by far from the guys on that list. Cowher builds teams that contends nearly every year, and play sound fundamental football. Granted, without Big Ben they're a 9-7 or 8-8 team, but with him they're gunning for a SB.

Shanahan's teams... well aside from Elway, they weren't all that great. The altitude really helped. He's good, but not great.

Holmgren is over-rated.

Gruden is a good coach that wears out his welcome. Won a SB with somebody else's team and wasn't able to develop a QB afterwards. I enjoy listening to him on TV.

Thanks for your attention.

Posted by: dpc2003 | September 15, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

mattylight,

Get your weight up, little man...

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

We should call:

Chia-Pet run over mhas'-lap

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Lavar can go F himself with a large soup bone.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 3:14 PM

----------

LOL!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Portis: You take away that Touchdown, we won that game.

I guess he agrees with me.....It's JC17's fault.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

And on the whole number of snaps thing, I'd like to see Chris Wilson and Jeremy Jarmon get more.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

You aren't getting the full picture. The reason that pass plays outnumber runs is because we got behind enough that we had to pass every down. If you watched the game from the beginning you would have noticed the pattern of run, run, pass was very prevalent through the whole first half and into the second. The last drive had how many passes and how many runs? Take that drive away and passes to runs are equal. That's usually a good thing except that a couple of drives had to be more pass than run to try and catch up.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

How's this picture: I just looked up the game log. Our first half drives were as follows. Please point out the prevalent pattern you mentioned.

1st Drive:

Run,
Pass,
Run,
Pass

2nd Drive (from own 3 yard line):

Run,
Run,
Run

3rd Drive:

Pass,
Pass,
Run,
Pass

4th Drive:

Run,
Pass,
Pass,
Pass

5th Drive:

Pass,
Run,
Pass,
Run,
Pass,
Pass

I await your response with interest.


Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else thing we need to get another good DE and OLB to see the full power of big Al? I think he was okay, but we have him surrounded by a okay 2nd DT, 2 average DE's, 1 great MLB, and 2 OLBs that are slightly above average.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 15, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

LOL at that bama dude RedDMV....I'm at 190 lbs.....fatty....


Cuz....Breath in...Breath out....

You can't attack Zorn for 16 straight weeks...He might actually turn the team around, and your bandwagon permit might be revoked because of your tirades....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

"The gadget should have been a flea-flicker."


There is no such thing as a 'gadget' play in an offense that executes well.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

If we change coaches then Holmgren will be the guy. We've soent 2 offseasons putting together players for his West Coast offense. No way we completely scrap the whole thing. It does mean new QB and Zorn accepting a demotion or leaving.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

And on the whole number of snaps thing, I'd like to see Chris Wilson and Jeremy Jarmon get more.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz
__________________________

I think all guys should get more.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

speculum,

I think coach Zorn is clueless with this team. He is an idealogue who needs to be more pragmatic.

Start with what you have and build with that. Don't start with an idea that you thought it worked in Seatle and expect it to work here and now.

How do you qualify for a headcoaching job anyway?

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else thing we need to get another good DE and OLB to see the full power of big Al? I think he was okay, but we have him surrounded by a okay 2nd DT, 2 average DE's, 1 great MLB, and 2 OLBs that are slightly above average.

Posted by: alex35332

We drafted Orakpo. Either you're patient enough to see if your first round show pony works out, or you can go all Dan Snyder and trade for Jason Taylor again.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Okay.

Duly noted, TLoad.

Speaking of loads..

TLoad, your mother has cöckbreath, and breaths with her mouth open.

Is that new and knee-slapping enough for you, dìckwad?

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Shrug that off, TLoad...when you're like Red and suffering from high blood pressure and a cholesterol level in the same stratosphere as Oprah in between diets, I hear you tend to get a little irritable...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

weighed myself last night, I'm 39 years old, 6'1, and 221....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

So, if you actually look at the numbers instead of listening to lavar, then there is no post at 6:03am?

JReid, you need to stop all of these filler posts and get some factual stuff going. Throw in a USC post if you need a filler post.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Red-
We've got a package up here on the 6th floor that needs to get out pronto. Quit playing around on the computer and get up here and get it.

Posted by: richard_cranium | September 15, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

A. Shanahan
B. Cowher
C. Gruden
D. Mariucci

Thoughts??

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

What makes you think any of these guys wants to coach the Redskins? If Jim Schwarz and Spags took jobs with the Lions and Rams over the Skins, what makes you think DanVin would give any one of those 4 candidates the power they'd ask for and deserve?

Posted by: rich20ssu | September 15, 2009 2:01 PM |

Your kidding right Money talks and bull sh_t runs a marathon, everyone of them would work for Snyder because he would pay them more then any other team.

Don't act like those guys have some high moral standing, they love to coach and get paid.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

I await your response with interest.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:18 PM |

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong if this is indeed the log but I certainly see something missing because I distinctly remember a series with run, run, pass and saying to myself, "Here we f'in go again."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Bean - Your obease according to medical standards...I'm putting you on the BMW Diet...Nothing but Buffalo meat and getting chewed out by Buges....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong if this is indeed the log but I certainly see something missing because I distinctly remember a series with run, run, pass and saying to myself, "Here we f'in go again."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009091310/2009/REG1/redskins@giants/analyze#analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

So, if you actually look at the numbers instead of listening to lavar, then there is no post at 6:03am?

Posted by: Curzon417

Damn, when you put it that way, it looks even worse. But then, JReid's journalism mentor was JLC, who never let the facts get in the way of a good post.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

DL: Albert Haynesworth 46, Phillip Daniels 43, Cornelius Griffin 51, Andre Carter 61, Lorenzo Alexander 17, Kedric Golston 26, Jeremy Jarmon 9.

LB: London Fletcher 64, Rocky McIntosh 57, Brian Orakpo 54, Chris Wilson 10.

DB: Carlos Rogers 59, DeAngelo Hall 62, Fred Smoot 12, LaRon Landry 63, Reed Doughty 30, Chris Horton 40.

--------------------------------------------

IMO I'd like to see C. Wilson on the field more on third downs. With him, Rak, Carter, Haynesworth it should be pretty good as a rush unit.

-----------------------------------------

Posted by: TWISI | September 15, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Vick starts practicing tommorow....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

peaceful2008

"I think coach Zorn is clueless with this team."



I think Zorn thinks he's calling plays for the 2005 Seattle Seahawks.

Somebody should slap him into 2009, wid da quickness.

He's got a team that's made an investment with draft picks (Davis, Thomas, Kelly) in three pass catchers: get'em on the field and find simple ways to get them the ball.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

CP was right last year...we got a genius for a coach.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 15, 2009 1:14 PM


I bet you nobody comes out and rips CP a new one if says it this year. Maybe we should stop bashing CP and listen because he seems like the only one who is willing to tell it like it is. Us fans just get mad when he tells us the truth sometime.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | September 15, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Bean - Your obease according to medical standards...I'm putting you on the BMW Diet...Nothing but Buffalo meat and getting chewed out by Buges....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

LOL...maybe BMW can tag-team with Jared in some new Subway commercials...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

they love to coach and get paid.


you got that backwards, they love to get paid first, and love to coach after...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong if this is indeed the log but I certainly see something missing because I distinctly remember a series with run, run, pass and saying to myself, "Here we f'in go again."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009091310/2009/REG1/redskins@giants/analyze#analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

You have to click that game in the banner at the top and then click play-by-play to get to the log.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Touche!

-by mhaslup1

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

"...JLC, who never let the facts get in the way of a good post."


Actually, JLC is doing a nice job on the NFL Network.

Perhaps folks here just want a dude to parrot what they want to read rather than challenge what they think.

Not that I would ever be caught thinking....

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

mattylight,

Get your weight up, little man...

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

LOL. In defense of the 160 pounders, I'm that weight and can out bench most fellers twice my size. I know this is a blog, and I can say I'm 450lbs of pure muscle if I wanted to, but just saying..

And to the poster who says we don't know what plays were actually being called. If you hand the ball off to the RB on every first down, is that a mirage or a smokescreen for a deep post that the amateur eye can't see?

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

just thought you would like to know Espn's power rankings are The Redskins are number twenty with an down arrow

They say take rams on Sunday

Posted by: joevick | September 15, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong if this is indeed the log but I certainly see something missing because I distinctly remember a series with run, run, pass and saying to myself, "Here we f'in go again."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009091310/2009/REG1/redskins@giants/analyze#analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:26 PM |

Well I'm glad that you decided to post 5 of the 10 possessions that we had. There were actually a couple of run, run, pass or run, run, run, pass/punt series in there but way to go for selective posting.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Not only did Zorn refuse to deviate from "the script" afte the big run on first down (which he should have) but then he followed the script for the next two plays, which resulted in a throw-away of that possession. The very next play was a draw to Ladell Betts on 2nd and 21. Then a seven yard pass to cooley one third and 21.

Someone needs to explain to Zorn that gametime adjustments are not optional. Adjustment and adaptability is mandatory for success in ANY field, and football is no exception.

He acts like changing the script is equivalent to editing the bible infront of the pope at the Vatican.

Posted by: ecale25 | September 15, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"is that a mirage or a smokescreen for a deep post that the amateur eye can't see"

right....funny stuff...when is a handoff for a running play, in reality a skinny post for the slot receiver....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

So as I was reading the game summary I noticed one thing...Ladell Betts sucked a$$...again. Glad he's our 3rd down back.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

weighed myself last night, I'm 39 years old, 6'1, and 221....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Is that you Mark Brunell??

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

yods, agreed, run the no huddle out of the shot, until you see the defense with their tongues hanging out, then RAM portis down their throat......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 12:48 PM

agreed on this post...I also wish we would have signed Vick

More than anything I want to see the DB's on the line of scrimmage with the WR, this cushion has to end, so does the Prevent style defense Blache is running.

Has anyone seen anything from Zorn on why Kelly was so obsolete during the game?

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 15, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Your scale says how old you are? wow!

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 15, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

yods, agreed, run the no huddle out of the shot, until you see the defense with their tongues hanging out, then RAM portis down their throat......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 12:48 PM

That's 3 in agreement (me). Mark this down as a defining momenmt in RI history and send the results to Zorn.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

peaceful2008

"I think coach Zorn is clueless with this team."

I think Zorn thinks he's calling plays for the 2005 Seattle Seahawks.

Somebody should slap him into 2009, wid da quickness.

He's got a team that's made an investment with draft picks (Davis, Thomas, Kelly) in three pass catchers: get'em on the field and find simple ways to get them the ball.

Posted by: MistaMoe
-------------------

A balanced offensive attack is one that wins, period.

We don't need run/pass quotas in the NFL. Redskins giveup on the pass as if they have a running option that is much better, then they just throw away the down.

That is it really, Redskins are content to throw away the down, hoping for a better time and better place to execute. Coach the time is now, the place is here, pass the freagin ball to your receivers, using simple route, allowing God/luck to come your way.

Maybe if you pass three time in a row, the the DB's would be a bit winded and your physical receivers can succeed, I don't know!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

LOL. In defense of the 160 pounders, I'm that weight and can out bench most fellers twice my size
Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I will throw the BS flag on that. No way you can out bench most 320 lb dudes, women yes, not dudes.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong if this is indeed the log but I certainly see something missing because I distinctly remember a series with run, run, pass and saying to myself, "Here we f'in go again."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009091310/2009/REG1/redskins@giants/analyze#analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:26 PM |

Well I'm glad that you decided to post 5 of the 10 possessions that we had. There were actually a couple of run, run, pass or run, run, run, pass/punt series in there but way to go for selective posting.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

We had 10 first half possessions? I said it was first half only (since that's where you said the pattern was). If I missed some, I apologize. I'll take another look.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

What up, Dickey Cranium?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

4th, Zorn wouldn't be that bad of a dude to me if he'd do a couple of things:

*Game plan according to the personnel and the opponent.

*Take accountability when HIS offense stinks the place up.

*Make adjustments according to the way the opponent is playing the game.

So, if they loose to St. Louis, I can fry your boy, right?

And I'm not talking about frying him like I did today, I'm talking about non-stop frying him like the "HIRE MARTY S." dude.

ANNNND, 4th, you gump. I'm so past 190, 198 as of a few minutes ago.. sucka

----------------------------------------------------------------

mattylight, go gargle some... TLoad

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Dik,

No, you read that wrong.

A scale just tells you how much you weigh, but in order to get an accurate reading, you need to stand there in your tightey whiteys.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

will throw the BS flag on that. No way you can out bench most 320 lb dudes, women yes, not dudes.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Most 320 pounders that I know personally don't lift weights, so I got them beat. LOL Now, if you get me in the gym with a bunch of 300lbs NFL lineman, you best believe I'll keep quiet.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

And where is the Truth?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Could the issue with JC be that he's not fully comfortable with DT/MK thus is afraid to throw it in their direction? He's more comfortable with cooley/are/moss, thus they get the lions share of the passes....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

I weighed myself and I am 6'5 275 lbs and 31...are there any LB's out there still worth signing, so that we can put Orakpo back on the DL, what about that juke put on P. Daniels, ouch...

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 15, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

and take care of #2.

depending on what you ate, that could be as many as 5 pounds.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

ga8085-
You ever lifted a giant nutsack before?

Posted by: richard_cranium | September 15, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

And where is the Truth?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000


Buried where I put him..

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Most 320 pounders that I know personally don't lift weights, so I got them beat. LOL Now, if you get me in the gym with a bunch of 300lbs NFL lineman, you best believe I'll keep quiet.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse


I will give you that. They do lift a ton of burgers and beer cans though, that has to account for something. You dont get to 320 without doing some sort of lifting, even if it is only from the table to the mouth.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong if this is indeed the log but I certainly see something missing because I distinctly remember a series with run, run, pass and saying to myself, "Here we f'in go again."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009091310/2009/REG1/redskins@giants/analyze#analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:26 PM |

Well I'm glad that you decided to post 5 of the 10 possessions that we had. There were actually a couple of run, run, pass or run, run, run, pass/punt series in there but way to go for selective posting.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abu

I said they were first half possessions dude. Can't you read? Just for fun, i looked at the five second-half possessions and only one of them started with two runs. Hardly a pattern, right?

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

If Zorn loses @ home to Spags, you are allowed to unload him like the Sign MArty Guy, The MK12 Interview Guy, the Sign Chris Cooley Guy, the No to Fassel factiono, and BOOFER combined......

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

4 inches high, about 12 ounces with a full carpet of sprouts.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

egh - didn't want THAT picture.

Reading this thread is like looking like the back page w/ the escorts.... 36-24-34....7...?

I'm out...

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 15, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

ga8085-
You ever lifted a giant nutsack before?

Posted by: richard_cranium | September 15, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, my own, when I was trying to give you a breather down there.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

How do you qualify for a headcoaching job anyway?

Well, he blogs. A lot. I mean, a real lot. A lot more than, say, Gruden and Cowher.

Posted by: daggar | September 15, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

bean, if that's the case with JC, then who's that on?

It looked like Kelly was going to be one of his guys in the preseason, but come last Sunday and it was like Kelly in '08 all over again.

Campbell will not throw it when his receiver is covered, you got to put the ball in a spot where the receiver has the best chance of catching the ball.

It can be done with someone covering you. All passes that are completed in the NFL aren't due to the receiver being wide open.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

yods, agreed, run the no huddle out of the shot, until you see the defense with their tongues hanging out, then RAM portis down their throat......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 12:48 PM

What's the point? Two running plays to the left, a WR screen, a punt. What difference does it make whether you go no huddle?

I say, huddle up, take some time off the clock, let the defense rest.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Buried where I put him..

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

I wanted to ask him about that Georgia/OK. State game. I might disappear for a bit if Tenn pulls of a major upset.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

"*Take accountability when HIS offense stinks the place up." RedDMV

He would not even have to do this if he would only stop placing the blame elsewhere. What gets me is he calls out everyone but himself.

On the play that JC had the ball stripped from him, Zorn tries to make it sound like the receivers were covered. If JC feels the pressure and steps up, he gives himself 1-2 more seconds for the play to develop.

Feeling the pressure and not throwing the ball from you back pocket.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Zeke, you went down!

I can't believe it

I rule! for 1 week at least

Posted by: noonefromtampa

I did go down -- solid win for you Tampa. Your team had a good game. All your guys kicked in nicely -- that's actually pretty rare. Enjoy your time at the top.

If there is one thing I learned about FF, it'll keep you humble. Last year, Zornskins led everyone in scoring by a bunch, but in the 2 game playoffs, he scored the least of all 4 guys in the mix, by a pretty significant amount. And he still won.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 15, 2009 1:07 PM
-----------------------------
In my other league I had three guys get hurt and was double up on the final score it was brutal!!!

Posted by: noonefromtampa | September 15, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

weighed myself last night, I'm 39 years old, 6'1, and 221....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Bean,

That is wierd I'm 39 years old, 6'1, and 225

I know we agree on a lot of things but who knew we were twins.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

If you watched the game from the beginning you would have noticed the pattern of run, run, pass was very prevalent through the whole first half and into the second. The last drive had how many passes and how many runs? Take that drive away and passes to runs are equal. That's usually a good thing except that a couple of drives had to be more pass than run to try and catch up.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:10 PM |

...and into the second. (Just the first half?) Look, I was wrong about the pattern in the first half, f'in sue me. Your sarcasm is duly noted. The last drive had 7 passes thus making the pass to run ratio quite equal hence the other point I made.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

bean, if that's the case with JC, then who's that on?

It looked like Kelly was going to be one of his guys in the preseason, but come last Sunday and it was like Kelly in '08 all over again.

Campbell will not throw it when his receiver is covered, you got to put the ball in a spot where the receiver has the best chance of catching the ball.

It can be done with someone covering you. All passes that are completed in the NFL aren't due to the receiver being wide open.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

That plus Kelly should have a height advantage over every corner he faces...just put it up high and let MK12 go get it...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

said they were first half possessions dude. Can't you read? Just for fun, i looked at the five second-half possessions and only one of them started with two runs. Hardly a pattern, right?

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 3:46 PM

There's at least 2 a$$bag.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

After Zorn ran that play, and after he ran off tackle every single first down the rest of the game, I am sure Snyder is programming (rather, having one of his minions program) his speed dial with MS's phone number.

Posted by: whughes1 | September 15, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

red, I think thats on JC right? I mean if the play is called for MK as the primary receiver, and JC goes to the check down, how can that be on anyone else...there has been a lot of reluctance on the part of JC to throw balls into coverage....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

You know we got the archives.

I will be getting at the Dude if they take an L Sunday.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
DikShuttle, doesn't like discussing physique because he's "5'4 230lbs.

Do you play the drums in your band, fat drummer man?

kids... jokes..
------------------------------------------------------------------
"I weighed myself and I am 6'5 275 lbs and 31...": Lies, all LIES!!!

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps folks here just want a dude to parrot what they want to read rather than challenge what they think.

Not that I would ever be caught thinking....


Posted by: MistaMoe

I have no problem with JLC's content and ideas. He had great ideas for posts and was very entertaining. The problem was he'd back of his ideas with quotes from an anonymous "official with the team" or "NFL scout" or "personnel guy". So, if he wanted to say, for example, that the Redskins were stupid for signing Haynesworth, he'd quote an unnamed source from the Titans about how Albert took plays off or freelanced. I've always been convinced that his sources were either made up, or that the "team source" was some schmo in the marketing dept.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

peaceful2008:

Jim Zorn sent this special tweet for you:

2.) Surgeon goes to hell. Devil says, " You have a choice between these 2 doors, I'll let you have a look in each to see where you want to spend the rest of eternity."

Surgeon opens the first door: SICU room with 20 patients all coding at the same time!!!! "Whoa, no way!!! Not this one."

Surgeon opens 2nd door: Medical records, infinite hallway of d/c summaries to sign. " No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Surgeon notices a third door and opens it: A Surgeon's lounge. Big screen, full of beers. Recliners, with a nurse giving each Surgeon oral sex! "This is the door I chose for eternity" states the surgeon.

"Nope, one of the first 2 doors." says the devil.

"Why? Why?"

"Cause the 3rd door is NURSE"S HELL!!!"

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

agreed, that is what I am saying abou MK12, throw the ball up like the Gints used to with Plax, if he doesnt come up with it no one will, but at least give him and the offense a shot at making plays...

JC still looks frightened out there and you cant play QB looking scared, ask Heath Shuler, Ramsey, Shroeder - well his eyes sucked...

And to think...next time we play the Gints they will have a LB back and a DB back.

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 15, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

JC tried to go to Kelly in the endzone but didn't have time and was sacked. Also, I didn't see not one roll out, and got to say it again: Portis is still effective, but dang he's slow.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

flound, haha, brother is that you????

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

-1-10-WAS 49 (11:35) L.Betts right end to 50 for 1 yard (R.Bernard, D.Clark). NYG-B.Cofield was injured during the
play.
2-9-50 (10:56) C.Portis left tackle to NYG 43 for 7 yards (B.Johnson).
3-2-NYG 43 (10:08) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass incomplete short right to A.Randle El (O.Umenyiora).

-1-10-WAS 20 (7:27) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 21 for 1 yard (O.Umenyiora, A.Pierce).
2-9-WAS 21 (6:50) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 25 for 4 yards (J.Tuck, D.Clark). NYG-M.Johnson was injured during
the play. NYG-J.Tuck was injured during the play.
3-5-WAS 25 (6:13) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass short left to C.Cooley to WAS 31 for 6 yards (C.Blackburn, P11
C.Webster). FUMBLES

-(5:50) C.Portis left end to WAS 34 for 3 yards (K.Phillips).
2-7-WAS 34 (5:10) C.Portis left tackle to WAS 33 for -1 yards (C.Canty, C.Blackburn).
Timeout #1 by WAS at 04:22.
3-8-WAS 33 (4:22) L.Betts right guard to WAS 31 for -2 yards (M.Johnson).

Then of course there was the three straight runs in the first. And I don't believe anyone said anything about "To start the series."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Don't act like those guys have some high moral standing, they love to coach and get paid.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009

I know its hard for a cynic like you to believe but some of these guys actually do this because they like to win. And its way up high on the list of their "guiding principles". To guys like that Snidely Owl is either a challenge or a joke. Except for Gibbs guess which of the two choices most will take.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

"I weighed myself and I am 6'5 275 lbs and 31...": Lies, all LIES!!!

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 3:57 PM

If I was lying I would have stated 6'5 225lbs and 31, I am heavy big boy, no lying about that...

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 15, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Campbell has got to trust the dude Kelly to make a play on the ball. I seen his head turn his way near the goal line, but quickly went back toward Moss on an attempted screen that the Giants SNUFFED!

Put Campbell in the damn shotty already.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

You know, just posting that, makes my blood boil again. Pathetic..

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

JC made some mental errors in the game, that I hope he'll correct before playing the Rams. What really needs to happen this Sunday is for JZ to let JC play quarterback and not office manager. Let him fire for effect to all of his weapons so they can really get their rythym going for the rest of the season. The weapons are there JZ. Take the safety's off starting with your quarterback.

Posted by: classicskins | September 15, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Put Campbell in the damn shotty already.
Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009

Campbell seems to be more effective in that formatino. And the line seems to be more effective blocking for it?

So why not start with the shotgun and throw the other guys off periodically by doing something else ...

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

mhartz1, there is this position called defensive linemen.

You should give that a try.

If all else fails, I know someone who's about to open up a nightclub in VA... they need bouncers.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

You know, just posting that, makes my blood boil again. Pathetic..

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 4:04 PM |

Thus further proving my point that the run, run, pass pattern is the one that stands out. And I hate it, too conservative. I did like the fake field goal though. That's where Zorn's conservative play calling and predictability worked for him.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

love em or hate em JLC ran a more exciting blog. now its one useless, boring, non-informative post after another. Nothing persoanl to JR....just sayin

Posted by: the_shocker1 | September 15, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Portis does look slow, on that 34 yard run in the beginning he looked like he was waddling...

At what point do we think we could run to the Right side more often, I think teams have cued in on us running left, also what the F happened to the counter trey, do we not run that at all anymore?? how about a draw play or those nifty screens the Iggles always screw us on, isnt that WCO...what exactly is the type of WCO that Zorn runs, it sure looks alot different than the Iggles version, Packers version and the Seahawk version??

More so that JC and others, I still fault the play calling, it sucks, its predictable and its predictable.

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 15, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Tomorrow we leave the Giants game behind and start drinking the Kool-aid for the Rams?
Yes?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"Portis does look slow..."

Portis been slow. It's why so many people wanted Aldridge.

He'll make the team next year, when they cut Betts or Cartwright.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

REDDMV, my father is mad at me every year around football season for not playing football, especially when the Skins dont play well, get a call like this...You know big boy, you should have played football, we would all be richer and the skins wouldnt be so bad.

On the bouncer front, I already did that job...then I bought my own bar and did it again, after college kids busting bottles on your head and hood rats trying to stab/ shoot you, it doesnt really matter how big you are...

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 15, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

I know its hard for a cynic like you to believe but some of these guys actually do this because they like to win. And its way up high on the list of their "guiding principles". To guys like that Snidely Owl is either a challenge or a joke. Except for Gibbs guess which of the two choices most will take.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 4:02 PM |

Sorry Peri,

I thought the winning thing would be assumed. If you want to be a winning coach Snyder is a great guy to work for, he will buy you what ever you need.

Gibbs 2.0 failed because of Gibbs not Snyder, he got Gibbs whatever he wanted. Gibbs chose to do the GM job he could have hired a GM if he wanted to.

Snyder would have let Gibbs do whatever he wanted.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Tomorrow we leave the Giants game behind and start drinking the Kool-aid for the Rams?
Yes?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:10 PM

No, that would be premature. After a loss, Wednesday is reserved for discussing next year's draft in light of our current record.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

JC will do well this Sunday, have faith. After all real Redskins fans don't get sqeamish after one game. We stay positive for the entire season. SO STOP YOUR WHINING.

Posted by: classicskins | September 15, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Tomorrow we leave the Giants game behind and start drinking the Kool-aid for the Rams?
Yes?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Here! Here! Let Zorn open up his dreaded WC offense and slap 18pts or more on his victims!

Posted by: ga8085 | September 15, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

indeed gator, I'm with that.

No more Zorn ripping until after the loss to the Rams. Then we can re-hash how he called a fake punt inside their own red zone, in the second quarter, with under one minute left, down by 10.

sike, sike...

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

If Hunter Smith had gotten absolutely creamed on that fake FG, would that not have made the funniest YouTube video? I was pumped he made it, but I was still cracking up at the possibility of him getting blown up...dude ran like he was constipated...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

SPEAKING OF THE AVAILABLE COACHES COWHER, GRUDEN SHANNY, OR HOLMGREN, HERE LIES THE PROBLEM THESE COACHES CAN FIX THIS TEAMS ISSUES ESPECIALLY COWHER THE PROBLEM IS IS Snyder willing to give what the coaches want things such as total control GM if these coaches asked snyder to stay out ofd personnel decisions is he willing to do it for the betterment of his team that is the key.

Posted by: rmnkevorkian | September 15, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Yes. We are a running team.

Problem is our O-Line gets no push off the line of scrimmage, which is a big problem, but I'm not sure how going pass happy all of a sudden solves anything...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 15, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Last year I'd say we were a running team, based on the Gibbs legacy. This year I would say not so much.

Against a strong Giants Defense, we couldn't pass or run. So our offense has no identity at this point.

I hope they can find themselves soon.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 15, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

mhartz1, all tru. No matter how big you are, or even if you're carrying, some one will always try you.

Flound, I think Zorn would extend that same "do whatever you like" privilege to Shanahan or Cowher.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

weighed myself last night, I'm 39 years old, 6'1, and 221....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Bean,

That is wierd I'm 39 years old, 6'1, and 225

I know we agree on a lot of things but who knew we were twins.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

37, 6'1 221

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | September 15, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

No, the season isn't over, but if JC continues to play QB with the same passivity, I will officially be an alcoholic by week 10. And I would hope that Mr. Snyder and his millions would have the decency to either pick up my rehab tab or get me a QB with some fire in his belly.

Posted by: nixx46 | September 15, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Flound, I think Zorn would extend that same "do whatever you like" privilege to Shanahan or Cowher.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 4:21 PM |

Red,

If you meant Snyder I think you are right, he would give them full control. I don't think he would fire Vinny, but Vinny would have no say just like when Gibbs was here.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

"Why do Lovie's buddies keep piling on Cutler?
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on September 15, 2009 2:41 PM ET
You don't need to be an NFL insider to have heard the whispers about Jay Cutler's leadership skills (or lack thereof.)...

Cutler's attitude towards the press is a lot less interesting to us than his interaction with his teammates. There have been signs that Cutler wasn't exactly a beloved leader in the Denver locker room.

Journalist Stefan Fatsis, who spent training camp in 2006 with the Broncos for a book he wrote, alluded to Cutler's aloof nature in a recent interview with the On the DL Podcast. (Outstanding book incidentally.)

Fatsis had close ties with folks throughout the Broncos organization, and there seemed to legitimate questions from within whether Cutler had the "intangibles" necessary to lead a football team. It's fair to wonder whether Josh McDaniels and company took this into account before dealing Cutler away."

I'm so thankful we weren't able to make that trade. I'll stick with JC any day!

Posted by: frediefritz | September 15, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

I thought JC had a major league arm. Can't any receiver break away from the defense long enough for him to air it out a couple of times a game? I have been a rapt watcher of every play for 30+ years when the Skins play but I took a long walk on Sunday. it was just so frigging boring.

Posted by: 69cav | September 15, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Then of course there was the three straight runs in the first. And I don't believe anyone said anything about "To start the series."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

So now you're not ever allowed to run the ball twice in a row? Don't you think that might tip the other team off that we'll pass after we run. You said the pattern was in the first half and the only time they were that conservative is when they started at their own 3 yard line.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

If Hunter Smith had gotten absolutely creamed on that fake FG, would that not have made the funniest YouTube video? I was pumped he made it, but I was still cracking up at the possibility of him getting blown up...dude ran like he was constipated...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 4:17 PM

Hunter the Punter running...brings back memories of The Punter Hunter (RIP).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1mW3DrXsPg

Posted by: 4-12 | September 15, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

weighed myself last night, I'm 39 years old, 6'1, and 221....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Bean,

That is wierd I'm 39 years old, 6'1, and 225

I know we agree on a lot of things but who knew we were twins.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

37, 6'1 221

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | September 15, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

33, at 6'2 230.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

• Familiarity isn't breeding success just yet in Washington. The notion that Jason Campbell would be markedly better this season because he's finally getting the chance to play in the same offense for a second consecutive season got a lot of play this summer. How's that one going so far? Not so good, if you're a Redskins fan.

Campbell looked a lot like Campbell in that 23-17, not-as-close-as-it-sounds loss to the Giants opening day. He was good in spots, and a bit shaky in spots, but never really put Washington into position to win the game. I wish I could say the Redskins can put this Genie back into the bottle in regards to Campbell and their obvious lack of confidence in him, but I just don't see it happening.

Courtesy of Don Banks.

Campbell may not be the guy, but Zorn certainly doesn't seem like he's up to the task of mentoring and developing....bring on Shanny.


Posted by: ksquare | September 15, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I was pumped he made it, but I was still cracking up at the possibility of him getting blown up...dude ran like he was constipated...

Posted by: mattylight | September 15, 2009 4:17 PM

He made it in with style, ol boy was high steppin it into the endzone. If he would have done the LT pose it would have been perfect.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

So now you're not ever allowed to run the ball twice in a row? Don't you think that might tip the other team off that we'll pass after we run. You said the pattern was in the first half and the only time they were that conservative is when they started at their own 3 yard line.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:27 PM

Until you learn to read a full post buzz off...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

There's at least 2 a$$bag.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

So, if you have a "run, run, pass" any two times in an entire game that constitutes a pattern? Dude, if you take three plays it's either:

Run, Run, Run
Run, Run, Pass
Run, Pass, Run
Pass, Run, Run,
Pass, Run, Pass, or
Pass, Pass, Pass

Only six options. And they aren't allowed to do any of these twice without being considered predictable? Come on scamp. You can do better than that.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Wait...there's also Pass, Pass, Run.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Until you learn to read a full post buzz off...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

I read it and you seem to be saying that they you have a problem with EVER going "run, run, pass"

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

lmao, Flound. I've been going on Zorn all the damn day, my mind can't distinguish Zorn and Snyder all the sudden.

meant, SNYDER.

Red tired. Red wanna go sleepy.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 15, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

you missed pass, pass, run

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 15, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Not to show my age, but isn't "quick kick" still an options?

Posted by: 4-12 | September 15, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

"an options". Yes, I talk good English.

Posted by: 4-12 | September 15, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Not to show my age, but isn't "quick kick" still an options?

Posted by: 4-12 | September 15, 2009 4:38 PM

You're not showing your age but your recklessness if you try to step into this. Leave it to scamp, lame-o, and johndinhouston. Just sit back and watch.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

I believe that the "center-eligble" trick hand off play that we saw in the movie M*A*S*H is also available.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 15, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

run, pass, punt...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

IMO I'd like to see C. Wilson on the field more on third downs. With him, Rak, Carter, Haynesworth it should be pretty good as a rush unit.

Posted by: TWISI | September 15, 2009

With Carlos and Shawn Springs that would work. Problem is everyone knows the Skins have Haynesworth and Orapko, Carter, Wilson, and Landry who can all rush/blitz pretty well.

As soon as they see them coming they throw it to the closest wide out (and the Giants supposedly have mediocre wideouts) and they somehow turn short into long.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Not to show my age, but isn't "quick kick" still an options?

Posted by: 4-12 |

I was thinking quick kick on 3rd down in the end zone. Zorn ran it...again.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Is there a rule against field goals on the first three downs? run, fg, pass, punt?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

peri,

Thats when you need to be able to tackle, and they showed they were not good at that on Sunday.

The blitz is great when you can make the QB throw it quick, but you have to be able to tackle the guy.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

I suspect that if you see Cowher or Shanahan you will see Vinny out the door ... Marty didn't want his owner's special agent in his midst. Its interesting that Gibbs allowed Snyderato access and decision making powers behind the scenes. I guess he thought he could do it even with those guys ... he was wrong ...

Cowher and Shananhan will contractually require Cerrato gone and Snyder to tie his own hands as far as running the football side of the operation is concerned. Of that you can be sure.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

In his Thursday column, CBS Sportsline football writer Clark Judge predicted that former Denver coach Mike Shanahan will be an NFL coach again next season, and mostly like will be in Washington.
Judge wrote, "A source I trust told me the Redskins were prepared to hire Shanahan last spring if they swung the deal for Jay Cutler. Shanahan will return to the NFL no later than next season and, if the Redskins' offense doesn't get a pulse, it will be here.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Zorn called the "trick" play. If I recall he called the same play in the pre-season on the first or second play. It seems to me that as soon as the Skins lined up, having watched the films, the Giants immediately knew what play was going to be run. No dah!?!

Coach Zorn was so excited about the pre-season success that he couldn't help but call it again at the same time with the same player set. He's a nice guy, but does not have the mentality required of an NFL coach.

If a school student used the "trial and error" method it is likely the student wouldn't get past the sixth grade. Given these facts, my theory is it would be six or more years before Coach Zorn "gets' it" if then.

I believe the loss is due to "the plays called". If we don't making a coaching change and continue to scapegoat JC, in a year or two he'll be playing for another team and will be doing very well.

Someone NEEDS to change the "play called" RIGHT NOW. It is self-evident that IF THIS IS NOT DONE NOW we can look forward to a record equal to, or worse than 2008. :(

Posted by: deesy | September 15, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Not to show my age, but isn't "quick kick" still an options?

Yes. And Baugh was its master. Interesting strategy. But it requires a quarterback who is also the team punter ... and a ****really good**** punter able to control and angle his punts.

Last QB who was a decent punter I think was Dante Pastorini?

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Judge wrote, "A source I trust told me the Redskins were prepared to hire Shanahan last spring if they swung the deal for Jay Cutler. Shanahan will return to the NFL no later than next season and, if the Redskins' offense doesn't get a pulse, it will be here.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

If so, then Blache will also be gone. So JC, JZ, and Blache could all be out the door.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

am I lame-o t-e? you're breaking my heart. I thought you were one of the sane ones.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Randle El should of threw that ball away...that killed the first drive of the game

Posted by: kickass10101 | September 15, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Add to that a heavy dose of Rabble Rabble Rabble, grab your pitchforks and brooms!!!
I declare Shenanigans!!

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

I thought you were one of the sane ones.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:50 PM

I was, once. But too much time up here got to me. Don't let it happen to you.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

am I lame-o t-e? you're breaking my heart. I thought you were one of the sane ones.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Now that is the post of the day.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

So JC, JZ, and Blache could all be out the door.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:49 PM |

After Sunday's game it is hard argue to the contrary. They all three sucked pretty hard.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

what about run, time out, pass, time out, run, two minute warning, fake kick, time out, option play, clock runs out on half?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 15, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

I can't see Shanahan coming here, not without a qb in place, that to me seems like a recipe for disaster for him....not to mention didn't he not get along with Portis??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

am I lame-o t-e? you're breaking my heart. I thought you were one of the sane ones.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Now that is the post of the day.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

No offense TE, but if anyone is on here, you have to have a little sickness in the brain. Or maybe it is just me. I used to drink the mercury out of thermometers.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 15, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

The Giants must be horrid if we are as terrible as you would think from this blog and they actually let us get to the point where an on-side kick mattered at the end of the game. I wonder if they are tearing up the G-men on their blog.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

I did notice that Zorn tried to get on someone on the sideline during the game(cant remember who) and they didnt even turn their head... Zorn doesnt inspire this team the man has no fire and everyone has figured out his playbook. Tell me when you are watching the game that you cant call the next play before it happens??

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

what about run, time out, pass, time out, run, two minute warning, fake kick, time out, option play, clock runs out on half?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 15, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Is that from a cowboys game in December?

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Cowher and Shananhan will contractually require Cerrato gone and Snyder to tie his own hands as far as running the football side of the operation is concerned. Of that you can be sure.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 4:46 PM |

Interesting comment. A lot of scuttle has Sha going to D but we all know how mettlesome that dude can be. Mr. Parcells? Anyhoo, at the time Sha departed Denver he had lost control over personnel. And he exited on a real sour note. So the sparkle on those two ringos has faded.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Zorn also learned a truism about the head coaching position – you have to seem as if you know what you are doing at all times. It is like any primary leadership position in a company. If the employees for one second catch on that supervisors don’t know what they’re doing, their respect level will plummet immediately. Once that happens, the manager is pretty much toast; that level of regard can be hard to get back once lost.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

I can't see Shanahan coming here, not without a qb in place, that to me seems like a recipe for disaster for him....not to mention didn't he not get along with Portis??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 15, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

That would be the point of coming here. He would only come if given total control, could pick his own qb to groom and develop.

Who cares about getting along with Portis? His better years are behind him and no longer has the extra gear he had in Denver.

Posted by: ksquare | September 15, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jm220 | September 15, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

The Skins can get Shanny or Cowher or Lombardi from the grave. If they don't get a real GM, nothing changes.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Pat Fisher is the link

Posted by: jm220 | September 15, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

The Giants must be horrid if we are as terrible as you would think from this blog and they actually let us get to the point where an on-side kick mattered at the end of the game. I wonder if they are tearing up the G-men on their blog.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 5:01 PM |

It was a crazy kind of game. The Skins are not lacking for talent. They beat themselves and the Giants sort of got out of their way. Their new DC getting a gatorade bath at the end was the height of insult.

Posted by: TLoad | September 15, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

It became a bad call when Randle El did not get rid of the football. Fault is completely with Randle El.

Posted by: Publius11 | September 15, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

If there is no cap next year, they should get rid of Portis. He had some great years here but we need a young fast back.

The only way they can cut Portis for the next 5 years, without killing the cap would be in an uncapped year.

Any new GM or Coach/GM would be smart, to get rid of some of the big contracts while you can.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

I DON'T KNOW THE INNER WORKINGS OF HOW PERSONNELL DECISIONS ARE MADE BY TEAMS AND WHAT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN PLACE AT THE LEAGUE LEVEL. I DO KNOW A COACHING CHANGE MUST BE MADE NOW BY WHATEVER MEANS NECCESSARY!

TO REITERATE:

Zorn called the "trick" play. If I recall he called the same play in the pre-season on the first or second play. It seems to me that as soon as the Skins lined up, having watched the films, the Giants immediately knew what play was going to be run. No dah!?!

Coach Zorn was so excited about the pre-season success that he couldn't help but call it again at the same time with the same player set. He's a nice guy, but does not have the mentality required of an NFL coach.

If a school student used the "trial and error" method it is likely the student wouldn't get past the sixth grade. Given these facts, my theory is it would be six or more years before Coach Zorn "gets' it" if then.

I believe the loss is due to "the plays called". If we don't making a coaching change and continue to scapegoat JC, in a year or two he'll be playing for another team and will be doing very well.

Someone NEEDS to change the "play called" RIGHT NOW. It is self-evident that IF THIS IS NOT DONE NOW we can look forward to a record equal to, or worse than 2008. :(

Posted by: deesy | September 15, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: deesy | September 15, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jm220 | September 15, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Only six options. And they aren't allowed to do any of these twice without being considered predictable? Come on scamp. You can do better than that.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 4:32 PM |


Alright, I already admited that I was wrong about the pattern in the first half. Just to be clear, I did say "and into the second." I guess what is needed now is a lesson in "the point I was trying to make was."

Example 1: When you go to your wife/girlfrien/boyfriend and say "I want to have sex," and she/he draws a big red vagina on your hand and says have at it big boy then her/his point was that you repulse her/him and she would rather sleep with the old guy greeting people at the local Walmart while your point was that you wanted to have sex with her.

Example 2: Without rehashing the whole stupid thing my point is that Zorn's playcalling seems a bit predictable and it SEEMED TO ME that he was following a pattern a bit to much. I was upset with how many times I said to myself "He's going to run it right here," and he did.

Do I need to say it again? I was wrong about what I percieved to be a pattern that I thought began in the first half but upon further review realized was really more of a perception of the second half.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

The Skins can get Shanny or Cowher or Lombardi from the grave. If they don't get a real GM, nothing changes.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Maybe....but none of those guys are coming here to work with Cerrato. Getting rid of Vincenzo is a more of ten steps forward kind of thing.

Posted by: ksquare | September 15, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell and Jim Zorn are the keys to the Washington Redskins success this upcoming season. Jason Campbell is in the last year of his deal. Jim Zorn faces an impatient Washington Redskins owner with Mike Shanahan lurking in the background.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Zorn also learned a truism about the head coaching position – you have to seem as if you know what you are doing at all times. It is like any primary leadership position in a company. If the employees for one second catch on that supervisors don’t know what they’re doing, their respect level will plummet immediately. Once that happens, the manager is pretty much toast; that level of regard can be hard to get back once lost.

Posted by: BenchCampbell

If you ACT like you always know what your doing, but you don't ACTUALLY know what you're doing, the players catch on over time. When your play calling sucks, you can't continually beat the "execution" drum. Telling players to stay "medium" then launching into a tirade on the sidelines when things go wrong doesn't show leadership. That act eventually wears thin on the players.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 15, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

I don't dislike Washington Redskin coach Jim Zorn. He seems like a decent enough man. But you know what? 17 games into his coaching career, the jury has deliberated and they have come back with a decision.

Jim Zorn is guilty on three counts of being not fit to be a head coach in the National Football League.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 15, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

she would rather sleep with the old guy greeting people at the local Walmart

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:16 PM

Hey, this could be good!

I'm on duty Wednesday night, 7:00 - 11:00. Ask her to say "Hi, I'm scamp's wife."

I don't usually get much action in this job, but I'm glad she noticed me.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse


RedDMV's cheap shotting and disrespect of Zorn are a disgrace.

That aside, however, I find myself on the same side of the fence with him. After watching Zorn for a season and one game, I am copnvinced he is currently quite inept at:

Play design
Play calling
Game strategy.

He could get better at all three. And I realize he had forgotten more than RedDMV and I combined will ever know about offense.

But that may be the problem.

Posted by: TheCork | September 15, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Flounder, I think that DanS is counting on an uncapped year.

Publius11, ARE made a bad play call worse.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

"MANOS" THE HANDS OF FATE had a script... but it still sucked.

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | September 15, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

I don't think I have seen anyone reference this movie outside of my family who are religious mst3k fans.

Kudos and cheers.

Posted by: BMACattack | September 15, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

she would rather sleep with the old guy greeting people at the local Walmart

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:16 PM

Hey, this could be good!

I'm on duty Wednesday night, 7:00 - 11:00. Ask her to say "Hi, I'm scamp's wife."

I don't usually get much action in this job, but I'm glad she noticed me.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 5:20 PM

You can't miss her, she's 7 months pregnant but looks ready to burst any minute.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

There is no such thing as a 'gadget' play in an offense that executes well.
Posted by: MistaMoe | September 15, 2009

This offense is more excrement than execute. So break out the slapchop & come up with something good!

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

It became a bad call when Randle El did not get rid of the football. Fault is completely with Randle El.

Posted by: Publius11 | September 15, 2009 5:14 PM

I agree but let's not be too hasty to bash a guy that was a glowing bright spot. I've been down on Randle El but they seem to have found his natural spot. Granted it's just 1 game but he looked like he was meant to be in the slot.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

You can't miss her, she's 7 months pregnant but looks ready to burst any minute.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:25 PM

Twenty people a night come in like that. Tell her to wear fuschia.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 15, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

BenchCampbell,

1. Insert chill pill.

No need to swallow it's a suppository.

Zorn has coached 17 games. He's 8-9. 0-3 against the Giants and 7-4 against the rest of the NFC. Dude, chill.

Posted by: bangkokben | September 15, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

You can't miss her, she's 7 months pregnant but looks ready to burst any minute.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:25 PM

Twenty people a night come in like that. Tell her to wear fuschia.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 5:28 PM

It's WalMart, she'll be the one without the wife beater and with all of her teeth.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

It's WalMart, she'll be the one without the wife beater and with all of her teeth.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:32 PM

If you can't treat her right, no wonder she's prowling the Wal-Mart for a guy who will. What a wimp. Run, run, pass.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

"MANOS" THE HANDS OF FATE had a script... but it still sucked.

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | September 15, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

I don't think I have seen anyone reference this movie outside of my family who are religious mst3k fans.

Kudos and cheers.

Posted by: BMACattack | September 15, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

I aM zORnGO. I taKE CaRe oF feDEX WhILE tHE giBBS iS AWay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKNTaWElUgA

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | September 15, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

It's WalMart, she'll be the one without the wife beater and with all of her teeth.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:32 PM

If you can't treat her right, no wonder she's prowling the Wal-Mart for a guy who will. What a wimp. Run, run, pass.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 5:35 PM

Yea, that's where she'll find a man to treat her right. And I'm AGAINST run, run, pass. LOL

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Pass, pass, run. It's a pass-oriented game.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 15, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Last QB who was a decent punter I think was Dante Pastorini?

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 4:49 PM

It was Danny White. He both QB'd and punted for the cowboys for a few years. I don't think Pastorini ever punted or at least I don't ever recall seeing him do it.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 15, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

American Indians look to high court

Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- A group of American Indians who find the Washington Redskins' name offensive wants the Supreme Court to take up the matter.

The group late Monday asked the justices to review a lower court decision that favored the NFL team on a legal technicality.

The seven Native Americans have been working through the court system since 1992 to have the Redskins trademarks declared invalid. A U.S. Patent and Trademark Office panel ruled in their favor in 1999, but they've since suffered a series of defeats from judges who ruled that the plaintiffs waited too long to bring their suit in the first place.

A lawyer for the group says he'd like to see the court decide once and for all whether the Redskins name defames Native Americans.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 15, 2009 5:52 PM

I have a feeling that this lawsuit has had a curse effect on the Redskins for the last 17 years.

Supreme Court, please dismiss this case.

We desperately need to go back to rooting for Super Bowl winning teams instead of this one that keeps teasing us with flashes of competence & even success, but ultimately crushes us with the blinding reality that this is a very mediocre football team.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 15, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

If one play decided the game, it was the fumble return after Campbell was stripped of the ball. If the 5th yr QB steps up in the pocket like all good 5th year QBs should, the fumble doesn't happen. Why insult our intelligence by thinking that we think that you're saying that the 2nd play was the momentum shifter? Give us a break, it's you Reid who don't know what you're talking about.

Posted by: getitritegov | September 15, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

The Great Spirit was certainly not with the Skins on Sunday.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 15, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

It was probably bad play calling.

Remember against Detroit last season first drive of the game we were on their goalline and Zorn called 3 horrible plays and we had to kick a FG against the LIONS!!! We almost lost the game because of that.

Posted by: pdo3 | September 15, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

39 years old, 6'1, and 225
Posted by: Flounder21 | September 15, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse
37, 6'1 221
Posted by: slimbo-Rice | September 15, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse
33, at 6'2 230.

F tall people. I'm proud of my ability to climb & nimbly balance on a chair while changing a light bulb.

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

I did notice that Zorn tried to get on someone on the sideline during the game(cant remember who) and they didnt even turn their head... Zorn doesnt inspire this team the man has no fire and everyone has figured out his playbook. Tell me when you are watching the game that you cant call the next play before it happens??

Posted by: BenchCampbell


Figured out Zorn's playbook? You mean all two pages of it complete with the stretch run to the left and bubble screen.

Posted by: dcwun | September 15, 2009 6:08 PM | Report abuse

I have a feeling that this lawsuit has had a curse effect on the Redskins for the last 17 years.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 15, 2009 5:58 PM

Yeah, that's the problem. Not the owner, the GM, the coaches, the players. It's a lawsuit. The more the 'Skins win in court, the less they win on the field.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 15, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

and everyone has figured out his playbook. Tell me when you are watching the game that you cant call the next play before it happens??

Posted by: BenchCampbell

Everyone but the Redskins players...

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

If you pass on first down, and its incomplete, THEN at 2nd and 10 you are predictable. If you pass on 2nd and 10 and its incomplete THEN you are hopeless at 3rd and 10. See, 3 yards runs make us far more unpredictable because at 2nd and 7 there's a lot more you can do with the football for your next two plays.

Being able to run for 3-4 yards on early first downs makes you able to pass for 20-40 yards on first down later.

Also, on your own 3 yard line your chance of scoring is like 2%: the chance of your opponent scoring via safety is probably even. Don't begrudge run plays called there. Wait, who got us starting field position, severely limited our play-calling, on the 3 yardline: that would be the defense.

Posted by: OrganicWater | September 15, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

It became a bad call when Randle El did not get rid of the football. Fault is completely with Randle El.

Posted by: Publius11
-----


Pubes,

Repeat after me: bad call, bad call

you just gained 34 yrds, great, now pass for 8-20 yards to one of your receivers ortight ends. Why the trickery?

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Redskins sign OT William Robinson to practice squad, release WR Onrea Jones


Anyone heard of this guy?

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

If you pass on first down, and its incomplete, THEN at 2nd and 10 you are predictable. If you pass on 2nd and 10 and its incomplete THEN you are hopeless at 3rd and 10. See, 3 yards runs make us far more unpredictable because at 2nd and 7 there's a lot more you can do with the football for your next two plays.

Being able to run for 3-4 yards on early first downs makes you able to pass for 20-40 yards on first down later.

Also, on your own 3 yard line your chance of scoring is like 2%: the chance of your opponent scoring via safety is probably even. Don't begrudge run plays called there. Wait, who got us starting field position, severely limited our play-calling, on the 3 yardline: that would be the defense.

Posted by: OrganicWater | September 15, 2009 6:15 PM

Based on this, you also never go for it on 4th and 15 from your own 43. But you know what, sometimes it works.

If like you said you try to do that 3-4 yard run on first down, well you're very predictable.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Will Robinson, OT
2008 Overview Signed By Seattle

An undersized developmental prospect, Robinson has the size potential and athletic ability scouts are looking for in a late-round or free-agent practice squad candidate. Though not stout or strong enough at the point of attack, Robinson plays with aggression and flashes good initial quickness and lateral agility. A solid week at the East-West Shrine Game could have made Robinson a draftable commodity.

Posted by: will_ga | September 15, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

BTW, since ST(RIP)left us, has any player on the D received "NFC" D player of the week?

Posted by: md_butler | September 15, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

peaceful2008:

Jim Zorn sent this special tweet for you:

2.) Surgeon goes to hell. Devil says, " You have a choice between these 2 doors, I'll let you have a look in each to see where you want to spend the rest of eternity."

Surgeon opens the first door: SICU room with 20 patients all coding at the same time!!!! "Whoa, no way!!! Not this one."

Surgeon opens 2nd door: Medical records, infinite hallway of d/c summaries to sign. " No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Surgeon notices a third door and opens it: A Surgeon's lounge. Big screen, full of beers. Recliners, with a nurse giving each Surgeon oral sex! "This is the door I chose for eternity" states the surgeon.

"Nope, one of the first 2 doors." says the devil.

"Why? Why?"

"Cause the 3rd door is NURSE"S HELL!!!"

Posted by: periculum
---------------------


funny peric,

with some of our nurses here in SoCal, I am not so sure if I wanna go in that lounge!!!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Last QB who was a decent punter I think was Dante Pastorini?

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 4:49 PM

It was Danny White. He both QB'd and punted for the cowboys for a few years. I don't think Pastorini ever punted or at least I don't ever recall seeing him do it.

Posted by: learnedhand1


Also John Elway and Randall Cunningham did quick kicks quite well. Cunningham had a monster punt once...think it was something like 70 yds.

Posted by: Alvin_Walton | September 15, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Pubes,

Repeat after me: bad call, bad call

you just gained 34 yrds, great, now pass for 8-20 yards to one of your receivers ortight ends. Why the trickery?

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Why not? Misdirection is a lot of how teams are successful. I don't think its useful to classify certain plays as "trick" plays anyway. A simple counter is a misdirection play too. Is that a gadget? Good teams do this. The Steelers did this a lot when they had Randle El. Nobody would be against it if it had gone for a 20 yard gain. Nobody would be talking about it if Randel El had thrown it away or run forward for a yard. It was the execution, not the play.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 6:32 PM | Report abuse

Forgot about Cunningham but yes he could punt the ball. Don't recall ever seeing Elway punt.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 15, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

This just in...a collection of Grizzlys have sued the Chigago Bears and we've been told that a Roman Catholic Cardinal in Phoenix has retained counsel as well.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

BTW, since ST(RIP)left us, has any player on the D received "NFC" D player of the week?

Posted by: md_butler | September 15, 2009 6:24 PM |

Didn't Horton get it in his first game last year?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 15, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

MD Butler,

BTW, since ST(RIP)left us, has any player on the D received "NFC" D player of the week?

Posted by: md_butler | September 15, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

I think Horton got NFC player of the week last year, but can't remember if it was Rookie of the Week or NFC Player of the week...

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 15, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one more concerned about the play calling than the QB?

Posted by: dcwun
_______________________

Play-calling is THE major problem, at least based on what I saw Sunday (and remembering last year's 2nd half).

Posted by Chas Griffin

----

Lesse RedDMC is in that camp and TheCork is too.

I'll up the ante. Zorn is not only an incompetent and unimaginative play CALLER, he's a terrible play designer! This is the vaunted WCO?

It's got the same "counter-trey only without the counter and with zone blocking, and most of the time without a lead blocker..

Also, your BEST WR was taken out of the game by the Giants. What did YOU do to counter that? Put him in motion? Slot him? Stack him?

Why no deep balls early to put the fear of it in the Giants?

Why couldn't your "greatly improved" Malcolm Kelly be reached?

Why the plunge into the line following a turnover?

And Randle El's reverse is no more a trick play than the stupid reverse Zorn has in the playbook.

As others have pointed out, it's not mostly campbell's troubles as a QB, it's not Zorn's troubles as a head coach.

It's Zorn the offense guru that's the problem.

Fix it, please, or find someone who will.

And it's NOT Mike Shanahan. Dont' bring another soft West Coast offense into the NFC East!

Posted by: TheCork | September 15, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

Based on this, you also never go for it on 4th and 15 from your own 43. But you know what, sometimes it works.

If like you said you try to do that 3-4 yard run on first down, well you're very predictable

----

The point is being able to run on first down allows you to throw on first down. The only way to show that you can run (and by virtue of those runs have a wide-open 2nd down) is to do it.

Posted by: OrganicWater | September 15, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

I was ok with the play call, but ARE has to be smarter than that. He had plenty of time to throw the ball away. Sorry but that one was all on ARE. Dumb play on his part. Really dumb.

Posted by: RedskinsWarpath | September 15, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Forgot about Cunningham but yes he could punt the ball. Don't recall ever seeing Elway punt.

Posted by: learnedhand1

That's because Elway punted with his teeth.

Posted by: TheCork | September 15, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Playbook =
1st down run portis (gain 3 yards)
2nd down pass to moss (incomplete)
3rd down pass to cooley (gain 6 yards)
punt

Posted by: jmy999 | September 15, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Beep beep

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 15, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Listen, only thing wrong with that call; ARE didn't throw it away. If its a TD, Zorn is a genius, like the fake FG. I really didn't see any particular situational logic in calling it when he did, like I did with the fake FG, but it wasn't a really BAD time to do it, either. If ARE had just thrown it away, we wouldn't even be talking about it right now.

Posted by: kenboy1 | September 15, 2009 9:07 PM | Report abuse

"I don't think its Jason Campbell or any of the players. Major problem is the play calling sucks."

I agree.

Don't blame the players(all of the time).

It's the coaches job to put his/her players in a position to win and Zorn just can't to it. He really is a novice and it showed up this past Sunday. He's a horrible play caller. If Snyder would ever realize this and hire a coach that brings in his own people he might have something here but he just won't.

Part of me hopes that they lose the next three and maybe Snyder would fire Zorn in the process. But something Wilbon wrote a couple weeks ago really stood out to me watching that Giant game:

You just can't run an organization the way the Skins are set up and win.

It's going to be along year.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | September 15, 2009 9:59 PM | Report abuse

"Listen, only thing wrong with that call; ARE didn't throw it away."

That play was just one of many, he can't call a good game to save his job.

And he won't.

I predict he is fired by mid season.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | September 15, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Lesse RedDMC is in that camp and TheCork is too.

I'll up the ante. Zorn is not only an incompetent and unimaginative play CALLER, he's a terrible play designer! This is the vaunted WCO?

It's got the same "counter-trey only without the counter and with zone blocking, and most of the time without a lead blocker..

Also, your BEST WR was taken out of the game by the Giants. What did YOU do to counter that? Put him in motion? Slot him? Stack him?

Why no deep balls early to put the fear of it in the Giants?

Why couldn't your "greatly improved" Malcolm Kelly be reached?

Why the plunge into the line following a turnover?

And Randle El's reverse is no more a trick play than the stupid reverse Zorn has in the playbook.

As others have pointed out, it's not mostly campbell's troubles as a QB, it's not Zorn's troubles as a head coach.

It's Zorn the offense guru that's the problem.

Fix it, please, or find someone who will.

And it's NOT Mike Shanahan. Dont' bring another soft West Coast offense into the NFC East!

Posted by: TheCork | September 15, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse
------------

Right on, on every point!

The difference between winners and losers isn't much talent (parity, blah, blah) it is the leadership and coaching.

COACHING to maximize your strengths, match them against your opponents weakness. Play to WIN on every play. Are you hearing Xorn? every down is precious, not be wasted by running for 6 inches! And throw away the theoretical mumbo jumbo. It is not as complicated as Xorn thinks. Just watch game tapes of some successful teams and copy that Xorn. You don't have to go back to Seattle circa 1976 to get inspiration.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 15, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

First things things first - hometown teams all the time. period.
Blow up your pools and brackets!
43 6'3" 252 After working out in the gym.

Red DMV - The word you are looking for is LiverMush - North Carolinian for scrapple, Zorn Game Plan, Play Calling, Decision Making and in game adjustments.

BenchCampbell(Change your name!)and alex35332 - U did add Very Good Name to add to the Coaching Choices -
Grimm - Home Town Winning Tradition, Guts, Steelers and Cardinals experience! No Brainer.

But Promote Vinny(DS is not going to get rid of VINNY: FACE IT!) and get a young GM in waiting.

Next Week - Wake Up! Jim Zorn -
Spagnola (giants old DCoord and interviewee for this job)awaits and it was a reason the jints sent him to the rams and not here! Duh!

Kenbeatrizz - milquetoast (perfect)- Jreid, Jzorn, Moss(Webster went right through him), DHall (arm non-tackle)at this point in the season. Zorn is on this list he did not man up to his play calling. At least Jason said he made a mistake on the Osi fumble.

Kenbeatrizz - More plays by the offense and AH only needs to be on the field for 46 plays that will be the entire number of plays the D is on the feild. Remember Gibbs vs Tuna it was 4 possessions each team?
Playcalling AGAIN!!

I was speaking with a pack fan at work and he said ARE played the best game as a skin that I saw! What ????? -
HE HAD BETTER after he started off the SEASON with the almost the worst possible result for a SECOND PLAY of an NFL season.
This sets the identity and rythem for an offense that needs to put LONG..... drives together.

Nobody metioning Cartwright unable to find the ball on the on-side kick two steps to the right perfect angle behind the initial wedge and he would have not gotten Clobbered! and he would have had the ball. Look at the replay CLOSELY.

Where is Marko Mitchell? ALL he did was catch touchdowns and looked better than DT/ML how about making santana the slot receiver and have the 6'4" WR'ers on the out side?

While ARE still fair catches punts and tackes 10 yard losses on stupid play calling, leads skins receivers in DAC (dives after the catch). Cut him! Make a statement VINNY, JZORN.

Player of the game Haynesworth - made jacobs look small!! Goal Line Midfield it was great.If we had ANY offensive flow we win this game.

FREE BIG Tip to ZORN -
First PASS PLAY of an NFL season goes to your STARTING QB!

Bonus Tip - Don't give the Giants a SHORT FIELD. Let JCamp thrown one pass so that the giants start one possesion in their Territory!!!!

JC needs a coach with guts not one trying to set him up as a sacrifice!!

JC - NEEDS to learn a few CUSS WORDS.
Oh! Check this out True believer! - Cooley does not block anybody, people! Look at the money times in Big games and the big sacks. Cooley DOES NOT Block. Pretends to block or gives any real attempts to block. Fred Davis anyone! Anyone!


Posted by: zariah | September 15, 2009 11:06 PM | Report abuse

"They covered Santana, which most of the day they tried to take him out of the game. They did a good job with two guys on him. They had him covered."

So if you know going in that they will "blanket" Santana all game, why not use him as a decoy and start spreading the ball to Malcolm Kelly or Marko Mitchell more? Why is Zorn so stubborn and untrusting of his players? Zorn is also starting to show an arrogant side despite the fact that he has a losing record so far. No wonder Snyder liked him!

Posted by: JohnWWW | September 15, 2009 11:41 PM | Report abuse

How is a 2nd & 21 off a play-pass sack any different than the 2nd & 21 that occurred. The defense didn't bit because they wouldn't have bit on the play-pass the poster suggest.

Yo bro, that dog won't hunt.

Posted by: tony11 | September 16, 2009 12:39 AM | Report abuse

How is a 2nd & 21 off a play-pass sack any different than the 2nd & 21 that occurred. The defense didn't bite because they wouldn't have bit on the play-pass the poster suggest.

Yo bro, that dog won't hunt.

Posted by: tony11 | September 16, 2009 12:40 AM | Report abuse

How about THIS for an idea?

Run that play and have Kelly streak across the field from El's side, UNDERNEATH the double-covered Santana?

I'm just saying. At SOME point, our Genius Coach might want to use Moss as a decoy. You could always come back to him later, once the Defense starts taking him for granted.

Just an idea.

For the Script, I mean.

And PLEASE don't run ANY version of the play for the next few weeks, OK?

That'd be great. Thanks.

Posted by: Thinker_ | September 16, 2009 3:19 AM | Report abuse

Gotta give props on the fake field goal (which I called, by the way).

I'm just not sure how the Giants didn't see it coming. I've never, in my LIFE, seen a more obvious need for a fake field goal. . . EVER!

Posted by: Thinker_ | September 16, 2009 3:21 AM | Report abuse

I hate to admit it, but the scripted option play had me thinking..."Does anyone have Marty S email add?"

I hate the scripted plays. I agree that play-action was in order after Portis ripped off a 30+ yarder. I do believe that the receivers dropped a few balls early which changed the complexion of the game. And wonder how badly the cap got screwed on signing D. Hall.

Did anyone notice whether Edwin Williams played? Any thoughts on his performance?

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | September 16, 2009 7:46 AM | Report abuse

Zariah -

Good call on Rock whiffing at a ball on an onsides that was his for the taking. Yeah that had us screaming as well. But not as much as the reverse.

-hgr

Posted by: HughGRection | September 16, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

"the trick play was pretty sound"...

#1. It was a bad call. You use these plays later in the game to catch the defense "napping".
#2. It wasn't executed properly, he should have thrown the ball away.
#3. Everytime Randle El gets the ball, we all know that he's going to throw it (or there is a threat of him throwing it) so it doesn't work anymore. This play has been used way to much and we should bury it in the playbook.

Posted by: vtsquirm1 | September 16, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

PUT IN TODD COLLINS.

Posted by: cavalieri10 | September 16, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

PUT IN TODD COLLINS.

Posted by: cavalieri10 | September 16, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Guys,

Here's the bottom line on the Redskins receiving core.

They can't get separation from the defensive backs, and ultimately, the offensive line can't protect Campbell which equates to horrible passes, or dink passes for 5 yards or less.

I think the Skins really need to look in the direction of getting a 'real' playmaker on WR.

The following players are currently available, I am shocked no on has brought this up

1. Marvin Harrison - Why isn't he signed w/ anyone?

2. Crabtree - Talk to 49er's and trade a pick for him.

3. Hank Baskett - Just got released from Eagles. At 6'4 220lbs, he would be a decent option for the long ball, and complement Chris Cooley .

Your thoughts?

Posted by: asultan | September 16, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

There was this guy that used to call scripted plays to start the game. What was his name again? Oh yeah. Bill Walsh. The idea of a script is to have a series of plays that 1) set up later plays, 2) reveal how the defense will play certain looks, and 3) give a sense of what's working and what isn't. Run the script and then use the information to guide what you do in the rest of the game. Using a script is not, per se, a bad idea.

Randle El made a bad play. Look at your two reads, if they're covered, see if you have clear field in front of you, and if not, throw it away. The Giants weren't fooled a bit, so throw it away, Antwan.

This game, like a lot of NFC East games, was won and lost in the trenches. Excepting the 'Skins first play, the running game wasn't effective. On defense, the Redskins played reasonably well against the run, but Eli had all day to find open receivers and the Redskins couldn't get off the field on third down.

My problem with JC is that, in this offense, you have to throw on time. JC still needs to see a receiver come open before he will throw the ball. That's not going to work. It's going to result in holding the ball too long, which JC himself admitted was a problem. Of course, if he can't trust his receivers, that's a whole other problem.

Posted by: Charles_Day@comcast.net | September 16, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

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