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Horton placed on injured-reserve list (updated)

Safety Chris Horton has been placed on the season-ending injured-reserve list because of an injury to his foot.

Horton, who was injured Sunday, was originally expected to miss 4-6 weeks, according to Coach Jim Zorn, with the possibility of being sidelined 4-6 months looming if surgery were required, Zorn had said Monday. He explained that the injury was to a ligament in that area.

Replacing Horton on the roster is running back Quinton Ganther, who had been released last week.

Practice update

Rick Maese tweets that Clinton Portis is not at practice, which was moved to 11:30 because of the rainy weather today.

By Jason Reid  |  November 11, 2009; 11:18 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Zorn rules out LJ; Haynesworth says he was fined

Comments

Who won that foot race anyway?

Portis, but that was because Landry took a bad angle.

Man, sometimes these write themselves.

Posted by: daggar | November 11, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

wonder if they have plans to actually use Ganther this time around....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

JC Case Study #3 - Giants game

stat-line: 19/26 211yda 1td 1int

N(3) W(0)
1-1 7yds

N(10) W(0)
3-5 39yds, int, fumble ret TD

N(17) W(0)
4-5 67yds

N(17) W(7)
5-8 37yds, sack

N(20) W(10)
1-2 5yds

N(23) W(10)
5-6 62yd TD


This game is a perfect example of JC playing mediocre to bad while the game is close/competitive, and then lighting it up when the game is out of reach.

He stinks it up on the early drives contributing directly to some turnovers, one of which is returned for a TD.

When he finally puts together a nice drive, the Skins are down 17-0. The Skins scrape back into the game, and it is competitive, and JC can't do much. On one drive while it is 17-7, the Skins get teh ball at the NYG 11 following a turnover, and they only get a FG.

Finally, with the score 23-10 JC goes on a rip-roaring stat padding drive and throws his only TD pass of the game with less than 2 minutes to go.

So the final stat-line looks respectable.

Take away that last TD drive when the Gmen were in a soft prevent, and JC was 14/20, 149yds, 1int, 1fumble, 0 TD

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

redskinhead

"I think I would go six offensive linemen (have Batiste play as a blocking tight end) and Yoder."


You and I continue to be on the same page when it comes to scheme issues.

Sherm should go with unbalanced lines using Baptiste as a tight end and Davis and Moss split.

It would give power against Dumervil and the broncos speedy outside linebackers.

Going old school against the new school broncos is the best way to go.

Betts should get the rock early and often.

And with Cartwright backing him up, the redskins running game might just rock.

Play action passes will rule the day.

BRING BACK THE 'RIGGO' DRILL!!!!


Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

BRING BACK THE 'RIGGO' DRILL!!!!


Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2009 11:32 AM


If one more Redskin goes on IR, they may end up bringing back Riggo himself...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Too bad Horton is done for the year. Someone needs to replace Landry "the draft bust." At least we didn't draft Landry ahead of Adrian Peterson or any starting offensive linemen. Oh wait...

Posted by: Section104 | November 11, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Moe: I like that suggestion. Squeeze Ganther in a bit and I'm totally down with it. Ganther could suck or could be a diamond in the rough (okay, probably more like amethyst, but you know what I mean).

Posted by: AppleScience | November 11, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I would not wait till the end of the season to fire the entire coaching staff and start all over again.

Blowing things up is not the right approach. Getting the right people in place is more appropriate.

Thats why sometimes you have to promote people against there wishes.

I would demote or fire Zorn now. Promote Greg Blache to HC and Lewis becomes the OC. Blache's assistant would become the DC.

And for the rest of the season performance becomes the number one priority.

Under Zorn no one is going to play there best and the coaches won't do there best either, because they know at seasons end they are outa here.

If you sack Zorn now then the entire Team knows that everyone is performing for a job next year. Even the guaranteed contracts won't settle for being benched for poor performance.

This is the way to shake this Team up right now.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 11, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

If you sack Zorn now then the entire Team knows that everyone is performing for a job next year. Even the guaranteed contracts won't settle for being benched for poor performance.

This is the way to shake this Team up right now.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 11, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse


Not gonna happen.

After undermining the credibility and authority of the head coach, Cerrato then gave him an unqualified vote of confidence for the rest of the year.

I know, I know...but it makes sense in Redskins universe...

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

"This game is a perfect example of JC playing mediocre to bad while the game is close/competitive, and then lighting it up when the game is out of reach."

Still grinding that axe, huh?

Posted by: Samson151 | November 11, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

OMG, Hoston on IR? There goes the playoffs!

Posted by: TheCork | November 11, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Take away that last TD drive when the Gmen were in a soft prevent, and JC was 14/20, 149yds, 1int, 1fumble, 0 TD

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 11:31 AM

What's the QB rating for that stat line...just kidding. Look at the last 4-5 games of last year, after the OL issues.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 11, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I disagree while agreeing. At this point who cares whether Zorn is there or not, everyone knows he's gone at year's end and the last thing we need is more change in the locker room. However, if Snyder was a decent owner what he would do is right now today, he would take Vinny out into the woods and mercifully put him down like the dog that he is and go hire the best, most experienced, and most highly qualified personnel guy who will take his phone call. (Bill Polian IMHO) Pay whatever you have to pay to get him in here today for the rest of the season under a 5 year contract with the understanding that the new GM has complete and total authority and will be making the new coaching hires and deciding who stays or goes on the field. If that doesn't motivate them to play then nothing will.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 11, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

There was nothing majic about doing a coaching change during the bye week.

A team that performs as badly as this team is doing should take drastic measures as soon as possible.

Why wait till the end of the season?

Why? Just why? Why wait? What for?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 11, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

They moved practice because of rain?? What a bunch of Sallys. No wonder we SUCK!!

Posted by: jtwhite | November 11, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Ok, that's awesome. Now let's see how other QBs are doing with a #24 ranked run game and a #30 ranked passing protection?

The teams with crappy pass pro are:
DET
MIA
BUF
KC
SF
OAK
GB

The teams with crappy run games are:
CHI
BUF
KC
OAK
SEA
HOU
ARI
SD

So the only teams that are in the same boat as us are OAK, KC, BUF. How are their QBs doing? They are all worse than JC. Football is a team sport. No QB can win with a terrible line and a terrible run game. Trying to evaluate JC this season is a lost cause so stop whining about the QB.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

What's the QB rating for that stat line...just kidding. Look at the last 4-5 games of last year, after the OL issues.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse


I've not looked at last year, though I don't think we won many of the last 4-5 games.

If your point is that JC has regressed this year that only adds fuel to the "get-rid-of-JC-b/c-you-can't-count-on-him-to-lead-your-offense" fire...which is also my point.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

I would not wait till the end of the season to fire the entire coaching staff and start all over again.

Blowing things up is not the right approach. Getting the right people in place is more appropriate.

Thats why sometimes you have to promote people against there wishes.

I would demote or fire Zorn now. Promote Greg Blache to HC and Lewis becomes the OC. Blache's assistant would become the DC.

And for the rest of the season performance becomes the number one priority.

Under Zorn no one is going to play there best and the coaches won't do there best either, because they know at seasons end they are outa here.

If you sack Zorn now then the entire Team knows that everyone is performing for a job next year. Even the guaranteed contracts won't settle for being benched for poor performance.

This is the way to shake this Team up right now.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 11, 2009 11:44 AM

Nah, nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Posted by: skinswest | November 11, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I don't know which are the more ridiculous posts. Those who continue to put the blame for the Redskin issues solely on the shoulders of the quarterback, or those who think they know the magic formula of plays (play action!) and backup players (Ganther anyone? How about Andrew Woodson?) which will magically turn this team around.

Oh wait, I forgot one. Posters who say all they have to do is draft this guy and that guy and problem over.

Nothing I mean NOTHING will improve until they get some actual football minds in the executive suites and until Dan Snyder limits his involvement to writing checks to people designated by these football minds.

Minor fixes wont do. They must change the culture and replace management and coaching.

The BIGGEST problem is the guy who will select the replacements is the same football ignoramus who picked the current ones.

If Joseph Heller hadn't written "Catch-22," you could document the events at Redskin park and call it that, or better yet, "Drop-22"

Posted by: TheCork | November 11, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

I don't know which are the more ridiculous posts. Those who continue to put the blame for the Redskin issues solely on the shoulders of the quarterback, or those who think they know the magic formula of plays (play action!) and backup players (Ganther anyone? How about Andrew Woodson?) which will magically turn this team around.

Oh wait, I forgot one. Posters who say all they have to do is draft this guy and that guy and problem over.

Nothing I mean NOTHING will improve until they get some actual football minds in the executive suites and until Dan Snyder limits his involvement to writing checks to people designated by these football minds.

Minor fixes wont do. They must change the culture and replace management and coaching.

The BIGGEST problem is the guy who will select the replacements is the same football ignoramus who picked the current ones.

If Joseph Heller hadn't written "Catch-22," you could document the events at Redskin park and call it that, or better yet, "Drop-22"

Posted by: TheCork | November 11, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Reading RI these days encourages me to paraphrase a comment sometimes made about critics.
"RI bloggers come down after the battle and shoot the wounded."
Not everyone, of course, but if the foo shi-ats
Posted by: TheCork | November 6, 2009 7:37 PM


Not trying to politicize, or anything like that...

On Monday, Chicago Mayor Daley blamed the Ft. Hood Jihad Massacre on America’s love of guns!

“Unfortunately, America loves Guns. We love guns to a point where that uh we see devastation on a daily basis. You don’t blame a group.”

smh....ufb....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1


Sure, you're not trying to politicize. You want to make your one stupid statement but no one else to post their intelligent retort.

Of course America loves guns. we have the highest murder rate in the "civilized" world.

We have one of the biggest terrorist organizations in the world, the NRA, with a stranglehold on congress

Not talking about hunting rifles or the right for solid citizens to have a weapon at home top protect themselves and family. Thats' the American way. I'm not the cliched bleeding heart you NRA types believe anyone who opposes any guns is.

But the NRA supports cop killer bullets, which even cops oppose, wants 50 calibre weapons in the hands of citizens and supports every law around that puts more guns in the hands of more people. Saturday night specials are their specialty. Guns on campus, where a dissatisfied student can wipe out a class room? NRA votes Aye

They have the philosophy, as do some of the morons who support it, that "when everyone has a gun, gun crimes will go waaay down because people will be afraid to shoot people because they can shoot back." Tell me, how did that work out on a freakin' Army Post?

F the NRA.

Yeah Americans LOVE guns. "God flag, guns and Apple pie."

Oh and by the way Beans, I sure hope you didn't think I intended my response to your politically inflammatory post to be "political."

Mostly I don't want guns in the hands of idiots who dont' know what's political and what isn't.

Posted by: TheCork | November 11, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully now Moore will get more playing time as FS and LL is moved to SS. Again, let's see what we really have with these young players.

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 11, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

So the only teams that are in the same boat as us are OAK, KC, BUF. How are their QBs doing? They are all worse than JC. Football is a team sport. No QB can win with a terrible line and a terrible run game. Trying to evaluate JC this season is a lost cause so stop whining about the QB.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

why are they mutually exclusive? Yes we have a bad line and a bad run game, does that mean JC is exempt from all responsibility for his inability to throw an accurate pass or read a defense? Every game is the same story with him, he has flashes of very good play sandwiched by majority of the game where he down right awful. In the Eagles game he left 175 yards and a TD on the field in the first half by missing wide open receivers and by pumping Santanna on a slugo, the corner bit, tanna running completely free on the sidelines and for some inexplicable reason he turns away and misses ARE over the middle.

Yes, he is often under duress and doesn't have a ton of help out there. But he has missed many many opportunities when he has had time and has had wide open receivers. Even the Tampa game that people point to as where he "rallied" us to a win he threw a late pick that gave them the opportunity to tie or win the game but the defense bailed him out. Our entire offense is bad. It is a team game. But pretending that JC is a great QB whose poor performances are all due to what surrounds him is naive.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 11, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I loved Aliens....

Posted by: AppleScience | November 11, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

The guy was a military officer this has nothing to do with a normal person owning or getting a gun.

I doubt it was hard for a military officer to get or already have a gun.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 11, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Minor fixes wont do. They must change the culture and replace management and coaching.

Posted by: TheCork | November 11, 2009 11:59 AM


GREAT post, Cork. Dead on. And even then, it'll take about 5 years to clean up this mess. The only way it's less is if the uncapped year becomes a reality and the Skins can drop all the dead-weight contracts (Portis, Samuels, Randy Thomas come to mind) and start fresh. The ultimate get out of jail free card is coming and I doubt this owner has the stones to take advantage of it. I just see the Julius Peppers and Sam Bradford jerseys now...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

If your point is that JC has regressed this year that only adds fuel to the "get-rid-of-JC-b/c-you-can't-count-on-him-to-lead-your-offense" fire...which is also my point.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 11:55 AM

No I'm just curious, and since you're already doing the research I'd like to know. I do think what you're doing is only showing a casual relationship. You would to look at down and distance, dropped passes etc to get a more accurate gauge.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

interested to see how Denver will feel if JCampbell does better then Orton?

Posted by: alex35332 | November 11, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I loved Aliens....

Posted by: AppleScience | November 11, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Alien 3 was bad, but it was a gem compared to resurection... I can't stand bad acting...

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | November 11, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | November 11, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

If your point is that JC has regressed this year that only adds fuel to the "get-rid-of-JC-b/c-you-can't-count-on-him-to-lead-your-offense" fire...which is also my point.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 11:55 AM

No I'm just curious, and since you're already doing the research I'd like to know. I do think what you're doing is only showing a casual relationship. You would to look at down and distance, dropped passes etc to get a more accurate gauge.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse


If I were doing a PhD on the issue, I would.

Since I'm passing some time on a blog and doing simple arithmetic while staring at NFL.com drive-by-drive stats, I likely won't.

JC17 is just as much party to all the losing as anyone else on the team - that's my point.

We are losing at least in part b/c of him, not depsite him.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

if JCampbell does better then Orton?

Posted by: alex35332 | November 11, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse


Thats a redonkulously BIG if...

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | November 11, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Ive been waiting for my chance to use redonkulous as an adverb for some time now. Such relief is only topped when Snyder decides to

FIRE VINNY!!!

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | November 11, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

p1funk fair enough. Have at it.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

No QB can win with a terrible line and a terrible run game. Trying to evaluate JC this season is a lost cause so stop whining about the QB.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse


Really? Why is JC exempt from all the crappy play, huh? Why does he get a pass? Because everything around him isn't working perfectly?

Big Ben seems to have figured out how to win behind a crappy Oline and a mediocre run game.

The Seahawks came back from being down 17-0 against Detroit, b/c the coach put the game on his QB, and they have an injured crappy line and no run game...and they won the game...we lost to the Lions.

And there are several teams where the run game gets a boost b/c the QB is someone who is respected/feared by the other team -Pats, Cards, Saints. But not us.

Like I said, JC17 needs everything to work perfectly for him in order to succeed. I guess you could do worse. You could have Trent Edwards or JaMarcus Russell.

But couldn't you also do better??

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Roc was in Alien 3.

There goes the wanna be journalist again... Complete with recycled post from five days ago.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 11, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Ive been waiting for my chance to use redonkulous as an adverb for some time now.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz


It's ricoculous...

Posted by: RedDMV | November 11, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Roc was in Alien 3.

There goes the wanna be journalist again... Complete with recycled post from five days ago.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 11, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Wynona was in Resurrection... it would have made that movie watchable if woulda showed the twins. But she didnt and it blew.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | November 11, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

"Nothing I mean NOTHING will improve until they get some actual football minds in the executive suites and until Dan Snyder limits his involvement to writing checks to people designated by these football minds."

Wow.

Nothing like criticizing folks who say what should happen by suggesting what won't happen.

That makes us all even, doesn't it?

Back to the game of mindless suggestions.

They're better than empty criticisms.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Rick Maese tweets that Clinton Portis is not at practice, which was moved to 11:30 because of the rainy weather today.

--

Uh... Rick.... Helloooo in there? Anyone home? CP not at practice? Does this surprise anyone? It is Wednesday after all -- and Clinton don't need no friggin practis -- and certainly never on a Wednesday.

Besides, he's probably off fighting doctors, coaches and whoever else might try to prevent him from playing on Sunday. Yeah, right...

Posted by: Vic1 | November 11, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Wynona was in Resurrection... it would have made that movie watchable if woulda showed the twins. But she didnt and it blew.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz


She did get shot between the twins.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 11, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

This team can get turned around in 1 year. Roughly 4 of the losses are largely on Zorn. A good OL and a motivating HC are all this team needs to go from the dung heap to playoff contender.

Can we fix an OL in a year? Maybe. Need to be good and a bit lucky. Say Jones (also injury prone) works out well and stays here. BMW should never have been expected to play much in 2009 given his transformation, but after a year relearning his re-made body, maybe he is OK. Both Jones and BMW have talent. Its a matter of health. We get one added OL in the draft or via FA.

A line of Jones, Dock, Rabach, new guy and BMW might be adequate.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 11, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 11, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

First off nobody said he was great. The argument we are making is that he doesn't suck. A lot of things effect QB play. You can't evaluate a QB with a terrible line and terrible run game. Terrible lines and terrible run games attribute to bad QB play. With a terrible exterior (offensive tackles) line the QB doesn't get to read the field since he's worried about getting his block knocked off. With a terrible interior line (center and guards) he can't step into his throws because the center and the right guard (throwing side) are being pushed into the backfield. With a terrible run game he is trying to throw into 7-8 guys in coverage while avoiding a pass rush consisting of 3-4 guys. Let me provide some examples to iilustrate my point:

2007 Derek Anderson
#3 pass protection
#8 run game
result-29 TDs

2009
#16 pass protection
#23 run game
result-What's a TD?

2008 Matt Cassell
result-awesome

2009
result-bust

The QB is viewed as the quick fix. That's why teams like us and the Browns keep somehow getting bust QBs while the Pats can pull a guy out of the stands and win 10 games. Our problems are very deeply rooted and they start with the offensive line. The offensive line controls the run game and the passing game. They control the entire offense. The QB only controls half. It makes more sense to build an offensive line. With a dominant offensive line a mediocre QB and mediocre running back look great. There is no quick fix here. We are not making the playoffs next year. There isn't a QB in the world that can change that.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1

"This team can get turned around in 1 year."


Don't suggest this.

You'll upset the guy who says stating the obvious isn't as important as promoting the ridiculous notion that Dan Snyder is somehow going to let other people run his team.

Yeah, spend some Haynesworth-type money on a right guard and tackle, draft a left tackle, and the skins' offensive line suddenly ain't all that bad.

Oooops: another pointless suggestion.

I guess I need to stop that.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

You can look at stats all day.

I prefer to look at Jason Campbell in games. He is sssssllllloooooowwwww as molasses on the release, and he stares down receivers.

Worse, because he plays behind a terrible O-line, he's now looking at the rush more often than he's looking downfield.

There's no excuse for that at this level, and with the time he's been in the league.

He's just no good, like the O-line, HC and GM.

They're all going to be gone when the season ends.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 11, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Big Ben seems to have figured out how to win behind a crappy Oline and a mediocre run game.

The Seahawks came back from being down 17-0 against Detroit, b/c the coach put the game on his QB, and they have an injured crappy line and no run game...and they won the game...we lost to the Lions.

And there are several teams where the run game gets a boost b/c the QB is someone who is respected/feared by the other team -Pats, Cards, Saints. But not us.

Like I said, JC17 needs everything to work perfectly for him in order to succeed. I guess you could do worse. You could have Trent Edwards or JaMarcus Russell.

But couldn't you also do better??

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Pitt has the number 1 defense. Big Ben has figured out how to win with a great defense. He throws deep a lot. He also throws a lot of picks and fumbles a lot. We don't have the defense they do so we can't just unleash the dragon every play.

Our coach decided to run left X 5 instead of throwing the ball against Detroit. That's why we lost.


JC doesn't need everything to work perfectly. There is a lot of wiggle room between being ranked 30th and being prefect. Nobody that is good has a terrbile line and a terrible run game. Ben at least has a mediocre run game. The Pats, Saints, Colts, etc. all have great pass protection.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Bet $5 that Cerrato will be here next year...

Posted by: RedDMV | November 11, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe

You'll upset the guy who says stating the obvious isn't as important as promoting the ridiculous notion that Dan Snyder is somehow going to let other people run his team.


You don't mean the guy who wrote a glowing article prior to the season about what a great job Vinny has done?

Couldn't be that guy your talking about.

Posted by: Skins930 | November 11, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

UPON FURTHER REVIEW

Final observations from the Redskins’ loss to Atlanta

* Jim Zorn is quick to point out when he thinks Jason Campbell is responsible for a sack, be it by holding onto the football too long or not making the right protection call. But against Atlanta, it’s hard to see Campbell at fault. During the five sacks, he had an average of 2.17 seconds before he was under duress. The Falcons rushers/Redskins protectors on the sacks: 3/6, 5/6, 5/7, 7/7 and 4/5.

* Atlanta had success blitzing cornerback Chevis Jackson. The Redskins tried Justin Tryon and Reed Doughty on blitzes late in the first half. With the Redskins in dime (six defensive backs), the duo rushed three times in five plays. During the three plays, Matt Ryan was 1-of-3 for 7 yards with an intentional grounding penalty.

* Mike Sellers’ 47-yard reception in the second quarter was a career high and it’s possible that the Redskins’ poor pass protection contributed to the play. Sellers lined up at left tight end in a four-receiver, one-tight end formation. Surely, the Falcons had to think he was staying in to protect. But when the Falcons rushed the standard four, Sellers slipped past linebacker Curtis Lofton, who didn’t give so much as a shove. Sellers caught the pass 22 yards downfield.

* On the inactive list the last five games, rookie receiver Marko Mitchell returned to the field and made his first two catches (for 22 yards). Mitchell played 12 snaps – he entered with only three snaps (Weeks 1-2). Malcolm Kelly played 26 snaps, his highest total since losing his starting position to Devin Thomas.

* Bizarre sight on a Falcons third-and-1 play in the fourth quarter. Lined up between defensive end Phillip Daniels and defensive tackle Cornelius Griffin was 210-pound LaRon Landry. He was pushed upfield by 331-pound Tyson Clabo, who was called for holding.

- Ryan O’Halloran

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

During the five sacks, he had an average of 2.17 seconds before he was under duress. The Falcons rushers/Redskins protectors on the sacks: 3/6, 5/6, 5/7, 7/7 and 4/5.

--------

Absolutely pathetic.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The problem with your logic is that it works both ways. A QB playing well helps out his run game. A QB playing well helps make his line look decent.

Last year Matt Cassel was sacked a league-high 47 times. What does that say about his O-line play?

He was still getting it done b/c he was well-versed in the offense they were running and was able to make alot of plays throwing the ball despite the sacks and the shoddy protection.

Our guy has (1) regressed over the past year despite working with the same coaches in the same offense or (2) has been outed as a mediocre QB who needs everything else working around him in order to perform adequately.

Either way, I think we can do better.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

We are losing at least in part b/c of him, not depsite him.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Completely agreed, he's not the biggest problem, he's not the only problem.....but he is a problem and he is also not the solution. If he was playing on a team with a great line, a great running game, and a great wide receiving core would he be better and would the team win games? Of course, I'm not saying that, but I am saying even if we had all of that he's still just an average QB and considering there are very very few teams around that can boast all of those things. We're not even close to one of them. It would be a lot easier to improve our oline and try and find "the guy" at QB not just some guy then it would be to go find a stud running back, a stud receiver, and build the best oline in the league. Whoever said it before is absolutely right, the Steelers are a great example, they don't have anybody particularly studly on offense at any position except QB and they have a great defense and coaching staff. We have all the pieces to have great defense. We have a stud at tight end, and we have a very good receiver in Moss, we have decent running backs nothing special, and our oline needs major help. Our coaching staff is abysmal. However, I don't think we're that far off, get a good personnel guy to identify the right coaches, get a RG and a RT in FA, draft a stud at LT, and then find your QB. That's not impossible, it isn't easy and maybe the stud QB aint happening this year, but the rest can and the upgrade at QB has to happen. With JC at the helm we are 5 years from being a contender even with an improved oline, if we improve the line and find the QB its immediate, the NFL is about GM (focus on keeping the trenches strong), Coach, and QB. We have none of those.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 11, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Romo and Big Ben are "under duress" frequently. They BUY time, and they CREATE plays for themselves.

Campbell folds up like a cheap suit. Dude doesn't even try to get away.

Also, 7 games into the 2009 season, Campbell told the announcing crew before the eighth game (Atlanta Falcons) that he's still not comfortable sliding.

WTF??? I blame Zorn and Campbell for that. Back in Week 2 or 3, I wondered on this blog why they don't work on sliding in practice.

Has anyone thought to ask about that in the pressers?

Cindy?

Jason?

Bueller?

Bueller?

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 11, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1

"This team can get turned around in 1 year."


Don't suggest this.

You'll upset the guy who says stating the obvious isn't as important as promoting the ridiculous notion that Dan Snyder is somehow going to let other people run his team.

Yeah, spend some Haynesworth-type money on a right guard and tackle, draft a left tackle, and the skins' offensive line suddenly ain't all that bad.

Oooops: another pointless suggestion.

I guess I need to stop that.

Posted by: MistaMoe

getting rid of Zorn and Vinny would go a long way towards beginning a turnaround. Perhaps the most entertaining game in DC right now is watching Vinny desperately trying to unhitch himself from Zorn.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 11, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins tried Justin Tryon and Reed Doughty on blitzes late in the first half. With the Redskins in dime (six defensive backs), the duo rushed three times in five plays. During the three plays, Matt Ryan was 1-of-3 for 7 yards with an intentional grounding penalty.

----------

Get we get a little more of this?

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

the Steelers are a great example, they don't have anybody particularly studly on offense at any position except QB and they have a great defense and coaching staff.

Posted by: zjfr2

ummm Hines Ward is pretty darn good -- he'll be in the discussion for HOF. Heath Miller is pretty darn good. Santonio Holmes is pretty darn good. That kid Wallace looks prtty good so far.

The Steelers have talent on offense. its not as good as their defense, but they've got some impressive players

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 11, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Not sure which is worse:

2.17 seconds seconds before he was under duress.

or

The Falcons rushers/Redskins protectors on the sacks: 3/6, 5/6, 5/7, 7/7 and 4/5.


oh and cork, as a gun owner, and an NRA member, go hold your breath until roughly 5:50 tomorrow night...

far be it for us to call the guy who did the shooting a 'terrorist' because Lord knows we don't want to upset anyone...instead lets blame ourselves...ufb...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Well, part of being a fan is playing GM.

I would take a LT with the 1st round pick, try and get Blount in the 2nd round, use the rest of the picks on O-linemen, and start Colt Brennan next year.

Brennan may or may not be the Answer, but Campbell is not worth re-signing (nor is Collins), and at this point he's totally shell-shocked, not unlike Patrick Ramsey was after the Spurrier Experiment.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 11, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

getting rid of Zorn and Vinny would go a long way towards beginning a turnaround. Perhaps the most entertaining game in DC right now is watching Vinny desperately trying to unhitch himself from Zorn.

Posted by: zcezcest1
----------------------------------------
I have heard people joke that "synergy" is tying two rocks together and hoping they will float. "Vinergy" is tying a GM and a coach together and hoping they will win.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1

"...getting rid of Zorn and Vinny would go a long way towards beginning a turnaround."


I'm a conservative for a lot of reasons.

The main one being that change is sometimes over-rated.

Ask the folks who voted for the hawaiian president how they feel about change about right now, and they'll tell you they'd prefer to punch the hawaiian.

I think Zorn and Sherm should stay.

The team reacted and responded when Zorn and Buges got into their business at half-time against the falcons--this means they have the players' respect.

Why change that?

But Vinny is clueless.

Changing Vinny is the only thing I can believe in.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Pitt has the number 1 defense. Big Ben has figured out how to win with a great defense. He throws deep a lot. He also throws a lot of picks and fumbles a lot. We don't have the defense they do so we can't just unleash the dragon every play.

Our coach decided to run left X 5 instead of throwing the ball against Detroit. That's why we lost.


JC doesn't need everything to work perfectly. There is a lot of wiggle room between being ranked 30th and being prefect. Nobody that is good has a terrbile line and a terrible run game. Ben at least has a mediocre run game. The Pats, Saints, Colts, etc. all have great pass protection.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse


The point is that Ben figures out how to win. We had the 4th ranked defense last year and a pretty productive running game, and we couldn't even make the playoffs.

Saints lost their starting Pro Bowl left tackle last month. Brees seems to have figured out how to keep winning.

Regarding the Pats Oline, just be reminded that Matt Cassel was sacked a league-high 47 times last year.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Yet another example is Aaron Rodgers who is playing behind an injured Oline that is in tatters. He's been sacked 37 times so far this year.

His offense still puts up 27 points a game and he's throwing for 280 yds/game with 16TDs and 5 ints. He doesn't have a world-beating defense or a great running game propping him up, but he's still get his part of the job done.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

"During the five sacks, he had an average of 2.17 seconds before he was under duress. The Falcons rushers/Redskins protectors on the sacks: 3/6, 5/6, 5/7, 7/7 and 4/5."

I can't wait to see how Campbell nut huggers try and spin this one. Campbell is trash... not good... terrible... inept... illegit... take you pick.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 11, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Guys,
I'd argue that Jason Campbell couldn't be a perfect QB without a great supporting cast, and we know he doesn't have that - at all. Still, I'd also argue that Campbell should be playing better than he has, despite being in the midst of some mediocre talent. That long Todd Collins pass that fell into Moss' hands (and was consequently dropped) looked strange on Sunday because we haven't seen that kind of accuracy out of Campbell. It probably caught Moss by surprise, too, and that is why he dropped it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Bet $5 that Cerrato will be here next year...

Posted by: RedDMV | November 11, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I will bet $10 that he will be here in some capacity as well.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | November 11, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

The problem with your logic is that it works both ways. A QB playing well helps out his run game. A QB playing well helps make his line look decent.

Last year Matt Cassel was sacked a league-high 47 times. What does that say about his O-line play?

He was still getting it done b/c he was well-versed in the offense they were running and was able to make alot of plays throwing the ball despite the sacks and the shoddy protection.

Our guy has (1) regressed over the past year despite working with the same coaches in the same offense or (2) has been outed as a mediocre QB who needs everything else working around him in order to perform adequately.

Either way, I think we can do better.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

It can work both ways if the offensive line is at worst mediocre. Peyton gets rid of the ball in a little over 3 seconds. This is the fastest in the league. Our line only offers a little over 2 seconds of protection. Therefore it is not possible for the QB to help this offensive line be better. Matt Cassel also had the benefit of having 1 bad offensive tackle (Matt Light). The interior of his line was good. This would lead to high sack totals but still good numbers overall. The other thing you have to keep in mind with the Pats is that their run game is also their passing game. That is the system. That's how a spread offense works. They actually had a great "run game" but it won't show up on the run stats. It will show up under Kevin Faulk's and Wes Welker's receiving stats. When he got to KC he has neither a good running game nor good protection. Now he is terrible.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn and Sherm should stay.

Posted by: MistaMoe

Zorn is an awful coach. Just awful. Not sure why you'd want him around.

As for Sherm, I don't know enough to make an assessment.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 11, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Guns on campus, where a dissatisfied student can wipe out a class room? NRA votes Aye

Posted by: TheCork | November 11, 2009 12:00 PM


Excellent point, Cork!

Case in point: Virginia Tech.

VT is a Gun-Free Zone, which is why there's never been a shooting incident there.


Oh, wait, except for that one time when a deranged student went nuts and killed a bunch of other students, and no one there could stop him, because no one else had a gun, because it was a Gun-Free Zone.

It didn't matter a hill of beans if any law-abiding student or professor with a concealed carry permit were nearby, because they were prohibited by law from carrying there, because it was a Gun-Free Zone.

It boggles the mind, really. How could a shooting happen in a Gun-Free Zone? Didn't the killer read the sign?

Posted by: freakzilla | November 11, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

"He's just no good, like the O-line, HC and GM."

Don't forget the running backs and WRs too. There is only one player on this offense that makes the guys around him better, and he's out with a broken leg.

Cooley is the only keeper on this offense, with Marko Mitchell the only other guy worth investing time in.

Of course, if you actually got a real HC and GM that even made minimal investments in the offensive line, you'd see how much different this team would look on the field.

Posted by: psps23 | November 11, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Yet another example is Aaron Rodgers who is playing behind an injured Oline that is in tatters. He's been sacked 37 times so far this year.

His offense still puts up 27 points a game and he's throwing for 280 yds/game with 16TDs and 5 ints. He doesn't have a world-beating defense or a great running game propping him up, but he's still get his part of the job done.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Donald Driver + Greg Jennings > Moss + Kelly/Thomas.

just sayin.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | November 11, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to go. He should never again be a HC.

Sherm should only be kept if the new HC (who was hired by the new GM, who was hired by the new President of Football Operations) wants him to stay.

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 11, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

well, bean, you could say that anyone who takes someone's life is a terrorist.

I prefer not to use the word indiscrimantly ever since I saw the Baltimore ABC TV station (owned by Sinclair Broadcasting) continue to call the insurgents Iraq "terorists". Sort of took any meaning away from the word, since it was a cheesy way of implying that we went to Iraq to fight the people who perpetrated 9/11.

Words are powerful, and we've gotten pretty darn sloppy with them here in the United States.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 11, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

wow, its just amazing, the Campbell lovers/protectors just never cease making excuses for him.....he's not good! neither is the rest of his offense outside of the injured Cooley and the inconsistent Moss, but he is a bad QB, plain and simple.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 11, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Guys,
I'd argue that Jason Campbell couldn't be a perfect QB without a great supporting cast, and we know he doesn't have that - at all. Still, I'd also argue that Campbell should be playing better than he has, despite being in the midst of some mediocre talent. That long Todd Collins pass that fell into Moss' hands (and was consequently dropped) looked strange on Sunday because we haven't seen that kind of accuracy out of Campbell. It probably caught Moss by surprise, too, and that is why he dropped it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Some mediocre talent? Are you high? What mediocre talent does he have surrounding him? The pass pro is ranked 30th. That's not mediocre that's terrible. The run game is ranked 24th, that's terrbile as well.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"He was still getting it done b/c he was well-versed in the offense they were running and was able to make alot of plays throwing the ball despite the sacks and the shoddy protection."

It also helps that he had one record-setting WR and another WR that led the league in receptions for 2 straight seasons, a HOF head coach, and an offensive coordinator that's currently showing why he was such a hot commodity on the HC market.

Meanwhile, JC has an aging Santana Moss, 3 deadbeat WR sidekicks, Jim Zorn, and Sherman Smith.

Nobody on this offense makes their teammates better.

Posted by: psps23 | November 11, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Donald Driver + Greg Jennings > Moss + Kelly/Thomas.

just sayin.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8

And an RB on pace for 1,300 yards and 8 TDs.

Posted by: psps23 | November 11, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Joe Gibbs used to take pride in a QBs ability to throw a ball away. Campbell, given the pressure he is almost always under, he needs to have that skill.

The coaches have done almost nothing to help in buying Campbell time. Why not keep Sellers and Yoder in the backfield with JC in shotgun, for example?

Roll the pockets like Gibbs used to do with Rypien -- it buys an extra half second.

Campbell has the arm to throw it from a deeper drop. So drop him back 5 yards deeper starting from the shotgun. 5 yards deeper gets him about another 3/4 of a second.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 11, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

It can work both ways if the offensive line is at worst mediocre. Peyton gets rid of the ball in a little over 3 seconds. This is the fastest in the league. Our line only offers a little over 2 seconds of protection. Therefore it is not possible for the QB to help this offensive line be better. Matt Cassel also had the benefit of having 1 bad offensive tackle (Matt Light). The interior of his line was good. This would lead to high sack totals but still good numbers overall. The other thing you have to keep in mind with the Pats is that their run game is also their passing game. That is the system. That's how a spread offense works. They actually had a great "run game" but it won't show up on the run stats. It will show up under Kevin Faulk's and Wes Welker's receiving stats. When he got to KC he has neither a good running game nor good protection. Now he is terrible.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse


Dude, your stuff is ridiculous. The longer this conversation goes, the more irrational you appear.

So those 47 sacks that Cassel took were all on Matt Light? He surrendered 47 sacks last year by himself, and everyone else on that line was just rock-solid, eh?

And now a short passing game is the same as a running game? Is "up" also "down"? Is "black" also "white"? Because last I checked, passing to your running backs is by definition part of a passing game.


Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

jd, look at the facts of the case..to come to any other conclusion is just pandering...

zorn needs to go...his use of players, his lack of accountability, lack of imagination on offense, its time for a fresh start.

vc, I think will be here, however I don't think he's in charge of player decisions after this year....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

It didn't matter a hill of beans if any law-abiding student or professor with a concealed carry permit were nearby, because they were prohibited by law from carrying there, because it was a Gun-Free Zone.

It boggles the mind, really. How could a shooting happen in a Gun-Free Zone? Didn't the killer read the sign?

Posted by: freakzilla | November 11, 2009 1:21 PM

Don't be an idiot. Same thing happened on a military base in Texas. Lot's of weapons; no gun control.

Posted by: mack1 | November 11, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Of note regarding Collins, he hit Moss with a big gain vs KC. But ... Moss had slowed down on that pattern -- then had to stretch out to make the catch. Big gain, yes. But if Moss had kept running like he was supposed to, its a TD.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 11, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Zorn: not calling plays "a frustration"
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 11, 2009 1:16 PM ET
Redskins coach Jim Zorn has accepted the fact that he no longer calls his team's plays, mostly because he had little choice but to accept it. But he acknowledges that he still feels frustrated.

Zorn, speaking on local radio station ESPN 980, said he has turned his focus to other aspects of coaching, but he says he thinks calling plays on offense is something he could be doing -- and doing well -- for the Redskins.

"I think I try to take the overall responsibility of being the head football coach and getting everybody to help these guys not jump offsides or to not line up in the neutral zone," Zorn said, per SportsRadioInterviews.com. "I'm responsible for that stuff too. Those are the kinds of things that keep the game going and having to pay attention. It certainly takes away something that I think I'm very good at and that's a frustration."

Although he was only using "help these guys not jump offsides" as an example, it sounds a little pathetic for a head coach to talk about such a basic task as what he focuses on now that he no longer calls plays. Zorn sounds like a head coach who is coaching on borrowed time, even if he claims he's hoping to be in Washington for years.

"I've really enjoyed all the things that the D.C. area, the Virginia area and the Maryland area and just the surroundings," Zorn said. "It's just an amazing place. I love that part. I hope I'm here for a long time."

Posted by: Skins930 | November 11, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

"During the five sacks, he had an average of 2.17 seconds before he was under duress. The Falcons rushers/Redskins protectors on the sacks: 3/6, 5/6, 5/7, 7/7 and 4/5."

I can't wait to see how Campbell nut huggers try and spin this one.

--------------

Not that Campbell is playing particularly well, but 2.17 seconds is putrid pass-protection, especially when you consistently outnumber the pass-rushers with protection.

You've got your criticisms mixed up. That one is not on Campbell.

Posted by: psps23 | November 11, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

OK, I give up.

All you JC apologists are right.

If it weren't for the horrible coaches, horrible owner, horrible Oline, horrible play-calling, horrible running game and horrible receivers, JC17 would be a perennial Pro Bowl QB!!!

We have a gem and we are wasting it!!!!

Let's extend JC with a big contract and go out and get a new owner, new coaches, new playcallers, new running game, new Oline, and new receivers so that we can salvage all of JC's precious talent that is clearly going to waste!!!

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

I think 2010 will mark the beginning of the Colt Brennan Era.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 11, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Well, if you define the Virginia Tech shooting, the Columbine shooting, the dude who shot the Amish folks, the Oklahoma City bombing, etc., ad infinitum as terrorism, well sure, then the Ft. Hood shooting is an example of terrorism, too.

But I don't think that's what you're saying.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 11, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

And now a short passing game is the same as a running game? Is "up" also "down"? Is "black" also "white"? Because last I checked, passing to your running backs is by definition part of a passing game.


Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Do I really need to explain how dump off passes to running backs and slot receivers is strategically the same thing as a handoff? You really can't put that one together without any help?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

"Although he was only using "help these guys not jump offsides" as an example, it sounds a little pathetic for a head coach to talk about such a basic task as what he focuses on now that he no longer calls plays."

Posted by: Skins930 | November 11, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse


not too mention that haynesworth jumped offsides twice on the opening drive against the falcons and Doughty lined up in the neutral zone on a punt to give them a first down, so he sucked at playcalling and now he sucks at making sure people line up properly.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 11, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is the only keeper on this offense, with Marko Mitchell the only other guy worth investing time in.

Posted by: psps23 | November 11, 2009 1:21 PM

Do my eyes deceive me. Have you given up on JC17?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | November 11, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

"Let's extend JC with a big contract and go out and get a new owner, new coaches, new playcallers, new running game, new Oline, and new receivers so that we can salvage all of JC's precious talent that is clearly going to waste!!!

Posted by: p1funk"

Nah, what we really need to do is draft the next new QB that will clearly turn Stephon Heyer, Casey Rabach, Will Montgomery, Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly, and, Clinton Portis into pro-bowl candidates (or for CP...again).

Because, you know, that's what Matt Cassel is doing in Kansas City right now, despite his pass-protection.

Posted by: psps23 | November 11, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

"Do my eyes deceive me. Have you given up on JC17?

Posted by: learnedhand1"

For this team, pretty much, yes. I'd still keep him for one more year as a RFA while the team actually rebuilds, though. No QB is stepping in here and solving any problems next season.

Posted by: psps23 | November 11, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

OK, I give up.

All you JC apologists are right.

If it weren't for the horrible coaches, horrible owner, horrible Oline, horrible play-calling, horrible running game and horrible receivers, JC17 would be a perennial Pro Bowl QB!!!

We have a gem and we are wasting it!!!!

Let's extend JC with a big contract and go out and get a new owner, new coaches, new playcallers, new running game, new Oline, and new receivers so that we can salvage all of JC's precious talent that is clearly going to waste!!!

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

That would be an awesome comeback if anyone actually said any of those things. Do you often argue with yourself? We've been saying he's mediocre, good enough to win, and should be resigned to a 3 year low ball contract. We also said we should fix the offensive line first then draft another QB in 2011. But all you hear is JC is the best EVAR!!!

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn and Sherm should stay.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2009 1:12 PM


Unless a light bulb went on for Jim Zorn after applying his shoe to the team's collective posterior at halftime on Sunday, then I wouldn't keep him. It took him half the season to finally light a fire under their arses.

Let's see if he goes back to being Medium Jim, or if he starts taking a more proactive approach to motivating the team.

My guess is that quarterback coaches typically take a "good cop" approach. A QB comes off the field after a bad series, gets an earful from the head coach, comes over and sits down, and then the QB coach goes to work. Seems like a QB coach would be like the "horse whisperer" of the NFL.

If that's accurate, it's easy to see how the average QB coach wouldn't have a seamless transition to head coaching.

As for play calling, after two games I do think Lewis is an improvement.

As for Original Sherm, he's clearly gone if Zorn is replaced by an outside HC. If they fire Zorn and promote from within, he still might be gone.

Posted by: freakzilla | November 11, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

One of the saddest parts of this season is seeing JC's regression. He is an effective QB when not under constant heavy pressure.

Many thought Campbell was too conservative last year. Not me. The Skins had a good defense and limited talent at the WR. Make few mistakes and run the ball was a good approach to winning.

This year, the talent is much less, but Campbell has also made too many mistakes.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 11, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Some mediocre talent? Are you high? What mediocre talent does he have surrounding him? The pass pro is ranked 30th. That's not mediocre that's terrible. The run game is ranked 24th, that's terrbile as well.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 |
-----------------------------------------
What do you think mediocre means? Did I use a word not in your Polley Pockets "I Love Jason Campbell" dictionary?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Everyone open the google home page right now and type in "why wont" don't hit enter but see what the first comment to come up is.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 11, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Do I really need to explain how dump off passes to running backs and slot receivers is strategically the same thing as a handoff? You really can't put that one together without any help?

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse


We got onto this line of conversation because you were saying that a QB cannot play well if he has both a bad Oline and a bad running game.

When you initially said that, did you really intend that definition of "running game" to mean "short passing game to slot receivers and back"???

I doubt it. When you said "running game" I think you clearly meant "handing it off to the running back and having the Oline run-block for him".

Now you want to twist around and insert new definitions. It makes it hard for someone to rationally follow your line of thought.

If a team does not use a "running game" and instead inserts alot of short passes that have a similar effect to running the ball, THAT IS STILL PART OF THE PASSING GAME BY DEFINITION AND YOU STILL NEED AN EFFECTIVE QB TO EXECUTE THOSE PLAYS.

It doesn't take pressure off the QB, it only increases his pass attempts and the need for him to properly read defenses and get it out to the right guy.

It does nothing to advance any of your points.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Don't be an idiot. Same thing happened on a military base in Texas. Lot's of weapons; no gun control.

Posted by: mack1 | November 11, 2009 1:32 PM


Don't call the kettle black, mack.

The same thing DIDN'T happen in Texas. In fact, it was pretty much the opposite.

1. The attack at Ft. Hood was a terrorist attack. Deny it all you want, try to explain it away with psychobabble, but it's a fact, mack.

2. The killer was ultimately stopped by someone else who was legally carrying a gun, something that didn't happen at VT.

Posted by: freakzilla | November 11, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Zorn, speaking on local radio station ESPN 980, said he has turned his focus to other aspects of coaching, but he says he thinks calling plays on offense is something he could be doing -- and doing well --

how out of touch is this guy?? I mean, once teams figured him out, noticed his tendencies, that was it, it was one and done....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

What do you think mediocre means? Did I use a word not in your Polley Pockets "I Love Jason Campbell" dictionary?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

No, you used a word that's only found in Vinny Cerrato's dictionary. I'm curious what your defintion of playoff roster is?

mediocre-of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.

24th out of 32 = bad
30th out of 32 = bad

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

alex35332,
Do you have a parakeet? WTF?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Lot's of weapons; no gun control -

or you could get the truth:

Soldiers at Fort Hood don't carry weapons unless they are doing training exercises

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

That would be an awesome comeback if anyone actually said any of those things. Do you often argue with yourself? We've been saying he's mediocre, good enough to win, and should be resigned to a 3 year low ball contract. We also said we should fix the offensive line first then draft another QB in 2011. But all you hear is JC is the best EVAR!!!

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Apparently I haven't been "arguing" with anyone.

An "argument" assumes rational debate from both sides of an issue and you've done a piss-poor job holding up your end of things.

So you at least acknowledge that JC17 is a mediocre QB. THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.

You think we can win with him? I think this is wishful thinking b/c he's not done anything to show us last year or this year that he's capable of leading an offense to produce more than 17 points. He's not done anything to show that he can win games through adversity. He's not done anything to show that he has the capacity to put this offense on his shoulders and make it happen.

I'm fine with low-balling him. He deserves a low-ball contract like other mediocre QBs. Let him be our backup, while we try some fresh blood at the position.


Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

"Soldiers at Fort Hood don't carry weapons unless they are doing training exercises

Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

So do you think it's your duty to constantly carry around a gun for your protection, anywhere and everywhere you go?

Posted by: psps23 | November 11, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

WTF?
RedSkinHead

I know, I don't know how that comes up but I had the same reaction.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 11, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

24th out of 32 = bad
30th out of 32 = bad

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 1:51 PM |

What part of this does JC play? Are these rankings because of 10 players on offense or 11? JC is part of the problem of this offense. Any attempt to take him out and blame his play because of the lack of talent around him is stupid.

The offense is who they are because of all offensive players including JC.

Posted by: Skins930 | November 11, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

you guys i never posted on here but read it all the time i dont think we can fix everything in one year but maybe get close i think if we would consider signing vick be hind an ok o-line then draft spiller in the first anfter trading our first for a lower first and a third, then pick up o-line with 2nd round. o-line with 3rd, and o-line with 4th then sign 2 olineman in free agency and sign the olb from kansas city (johnson) that should get us somewhere what do you guys think?

Posted by: jtbowhunter | November 11, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

psp, no, I don't...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan17,
So you admit you have a Polly Pockets' "I Love Jason Campbell" dictionary? You're either a young lady with a serious crush on Jason Campbell or you're a guy playing for the other team (not that there's anything wrong with that). Let's just leave this at "your love for Jason will never die" and move on to something else, okay?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 11, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

. The killer was ultimately stopped by someone else who was legally carrying a gun, something that didn't happen at VT.


Posted by: freakzilla | November 11, 2009 1:50 PM

Yes, a trained law enforcement officer and not some yahoo student who in a panic may have shot everyone but the gunman.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | November 11, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Ok, I think this is just a miscommunication so I'll explain as clearly as I can. The point I was making was that a QB needs a good running game or good protection in order to succeeed. You must have 1 or the other. The example was brought up that Matt Cassell did well without both. My point is that strategically he had a run game. Now the confusion comes in translating what I am talking about.

Let's look at what the run game does. The run game does 2 things.

1) The run game causes defenders to stay back and not blitz.

2) The run game causes the defense to keep extra defenders in the box.

Handing off to a running back in a traditional scheme accomplishes these two things. My point is that in a spread offense dump off passes and quick passes to the slot reciever does the same thing as a handoff in a traditional scheme. The thing you are trying to do is stretch the field vertically. You want the defense to come up close to the line of scrimmmage to defend your "run game". Then when they do you throw the ball over their heads. This is what New England does. It does not take skill to throw dump off passes. This is something I wish we would do more of. I think this type of offense would work well with what we have.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

What's a terrorist freak? You could call the VT shooter a terrorist. Or, you can call every terrorist deranged. The end result is terrible and the same. And the person who shot and stopped the murderer at Ft Hood was a cop. So I'm not sure what your point is there. Also I never said anything about any kettle being black. Mine is chrome.

Posted by: mack1 | November 11, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan17,
So you admit you have a Polly Pockets' "I Love Jason Campbell" dictionary? You're either a young lady with a serious crush on Jason Campbell or you're a guy playing for the other team (not that there's anything wrong with that). Let's just leave this at "your love for Jason will never die" and move on to something else, okay?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey, whatever gets you off Vinny.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 11, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

i dont think we can fix everything in one year but maybe get close i think if we would consider signing vick be hind an ok o-line then draft spiller in the first anfter trading our first for a lower first and a third, then pick up o-line with 2nd round. o-line with 3rd, and o-line with 4th then sign 2 olineman in free agency and sign the olb from kansas city (johnson) that should get us somewhere what do you guys think?

Posted by: jtbowhunter | November 11, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Why argue with two or three irrational Campbell sac-suckers?

They'll cry themselves to sleep for a few weeks after Jason Campbell is out of DC (and off to a forgettable career as a back-up QB in St Louis or Detroit), but they'll get over it.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 11, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Soldiers at Fort Hood don't carry weapons unless they are doing training exercises

Posted by: BeantownGreg1


I'm pretty sure do to the size of Ft. Hood there are numerous checkpoints and gates. Those gates are guarded by armed soldiers.

Just sayin.

To be in the Army or Marines you have to have somewhat of an edge to you... crazy if you will, how else would you be able to pt up with whats involved? But the Army should really think about doing thorough mental evaluations before having soldiers enlist.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 11, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Sure, you're not trying to politicize. You want to make your one stupid statement but no one else to post their intelligent retort.

Of course America loves guns. we have the highest murder rate in the "civilized" world.

We have one of the biggest terrorist organizations in the world, the NRA, with a stranglehold on congress

Not talking about hunting rifles or the right for solid citizens to have a weapon at home top protect themselves and family. Thats' the American way. I'm not the cliched bleeding heart you NRA types believe anyone who opposes any guns is.

But the NRA supports cop killer bullets, which even cops oppose, wants 50 calibre weapons in the hands of citizens and supports every law around that puts more guns in the hands of more people. Saturday night specials are their specialty. Guns on campus, where a dissatisfied student can wipe out a class room? NRA votes Aye

They have the philosophy, as do some of the morons who support it, that "when everyone has a gun, gun crimes will go waaay down because people will be afraid to shoot people because they can shoot back." Tell me, how did that work out on a freakin' Army Post?

F the NRA.

Yeah Americans LOVE guns. "God flag, guns and Apple pie."

Oh and by the way Beans, I sure hope you didn't think I intended my response to your politically inflammatory post to be "political."

Mostly I don't want guns in the hands of idiots who dont' know what's political and what isn't.


Posted by: TheCork | November 11, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

==========================================

Hey Cork, f you instead!!!
Tell me brains, how many do you think would have been killed at Ft. Hood if there wasn't someone with a gun to take down the shooter??
What do you call "Saturday Night Specials" and please, lead us to the NRA's push for that legislation!!
Seems to me the dissatisfied had an edge at VT!! You disagree brains??
NRA.......a terrorist organization!!! What a freekin idiot!!!

Posted by: dkidwell61 | November 11, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Go to the editorial pages to vent about gun rights. This is the sports page you moron's. Talk about skeet or target shooting if you want. But get the politics out of here.

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2009 10:16 PM | Report abuse

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