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Kelly making strides along the right route

There have been few positives for the Redskins in their 3-8 season, but second-year wide receiver Malcolm Kelly has shown some encouraging signs recently.

Kelly had two catches for 50 yards in Sunday's 27-24 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles. After losing the starting flanker position to fellow second-year wideout Devin Thomas earlier this season, Kelly remained focused and continued to work on his route-running, which was among the areas in which coaches said he needed the most improvement.

Kelly and his teammates have not given up, he said, but it's not about effort. It's about winning.

"You definitely see we have heart, just with the way guys are playing, but having heart isn't enough," Kelly said. "At the same time, we don't look at it like we're just a team that can only give a good effort but isn't good enough to win.

"We have a lot of guys out, but we still have guys capable of making plays every time they step on the field. We just shouldn't be close in these games. We feel we should be winning these games. That's why it's been really frustrating."

By Jason Reid  |  November 30, 2009; 8:48 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Haynesworth, Smoot expect to play (updated)

Comments

With all this talk about Gray being a great coaching prospect, hasn't the defensive backfield ben our waekness on defense with the problem not being getting beat on a regular basis but just blown assignments with nobody within 20 feet, this looks like coaching. And we have players yesterdays loss was the coaches loss- not playing to win but to not lose.

Posted by: Tappahannock | November 30, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Sorry can't type or spell monday after a holiday

Posted by: Tappahannock | November 30, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

And we have players yesterdays loss was the coaches loss- not playing to win but to not lose.

Posted by: Tappahannock | November 30, 2009 8:58 AM


Could not agree more, did not understand why the Skins decided to play it safe in the end. I felt that we were moving the ball on the Iggles all day...the soft play towards the end was nothing but a guarantee we would not win that game.

Alot of positives in the game though...
Kelly, Thomas, Cartwright, Davis, E. Williams - I thought all played pretty well. I also liked Ganther's running.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

anyone else think Moss looks like he doesnt want to play here anymore?

Couple of other things I noticed...JC walking away from Zorn on the sidelines and during timeouts, looks like that relationship sucks now.

Also, broadcasters stated that Zorn makes all 3rd down calls or all 3rd down short distance calls - for the most part we did pretty well on 3 rd down, but there were some plays that looked like the coach and QB were not on same page.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

beantown

"Let's get a couple of tackles, some road grader types..."

Offensive linemen?

Let's get something straight: the defensive players in the NFL are the better athletes in the league.

You can have the best offensive linemen in the world, and guys like Merriman, Orakpo, Harrison, and Carter will still make plays.

Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers gets hit early and often and still puts up numbers.

Guys like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, McNabb and Manning succeed because they also have playmakers to get the ball to.

Yes, the skins need tackles.

But the team also needs some guys to make plays once the ball hits them in the hands.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Rocky Mac played a pretty damn good game I thought, as did Fletcher. No reason we should have lost that game, minus the complete and utter breakdown with the DB's...we did have plenty of injuries too.

For all that say AH does nothing and has not earned his paycheck, I think the last 2 games demonstrate how much of an impact he can have, they ran right where the big guy would have been all game. I think we win both games with AH in the game.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

small steps I know, but how about we actually throw the ball to these guys like 5 times a game...we've made HUGE strides, from Davis 'not knowing the playbook' as well as 'giggling', and DT/MK 'not getting open'....can we put that to bed finally as excuses the coaching staff made because they hadn't a clue....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

There are two things that I know are true, 1. the offense can not come from behind, and 2. the defense can not play with a lead. with that being said, welcome to 3-13

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | November 30, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

I mean the argument that Colt Brennan should be given the chance to start behind an offensive line he can't see over.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2009 8:19 AM |
------------------------------

Drew Brees is shorter than Brennan.

Is the Saints O-line shorter than Brees?

I think the "silliness" is people dismissing a QB who the team drafted - and who has yet to play down in the NFL - as a bust.

They won't know what they have in Brennan until they play him.

Conversely, they already know what they have in Campbell.

Res ipsa loquitur.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

A couple of thoughts on yesterday's game.

1. Zorn needs to go. That dude has no killer instinct, worse than Gibbs 2.0 in that respect.

2. Did anyone NOT see us losing that game when we played for the field goal instead of the TD after Tryon's pick.

3. Laron Landry plays like he's in a mosh pit at a Slayer concert.

4. DeSean Jackson might be the saddest person of all to see Jerry Gray go to Memphis.

Posted by: Original_etrod | November 30, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

If AH had manned up and played for the last 2 games, I think we win both. Unfortunately, he was a no show for the most important stretch of the season.

Posted by: OffseasonChamps | November 30, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

I never heard whose fault the DeSean Jackson TD was.

But on the replay, Smoot turns him loose early, as if expecting safety help over the top. But Landry was engaged covering another receiver over the middle.

So whether that was Smoot's gaffe or Landry's, still not sure.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

5. How come we are the only team in the NFL that can't get a 1st down against a prevent defense?

6. All the crappy teams lost this week so we're still sitting at #5 in the draft order.

Posted by: Original_etrod | November 30, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

beantowngreg

I think the issues with Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas, and Fred Davis are more related to the fans' and team expectation.

Most teams bring young receivers along under the umbrella of a veteran core playmakers--that way, the player gets to learn how to be in the NFL.

It's silly to believe or depend on young receivers for success--look at how the jints receivers have also disappointed/pleased on some level.

The vikes' Sidney Rice needs Favre to succeed.

Without Favre, Rice goes back to being, well, Sidney Rice.

Percy Harvin, on the otherhand, just needs the ball and space to star.

The skins and fans want all three--Kelly, Davis,Thomas-- to star when only one might.

And that 'star' is going to have to someone the team drafts.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

If AH had manned up and played for the last 2 games, I think we win both. Unfortunately, he was a no show for the most important stretch of the season.

Posted by: OffseasonChamps | November 30, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse


Holy Sh!t. Are you serious? I don't know what part of that statement that is more rediculous, challenging Haynesworth's toughness or thinking that these were the two most important games of the season. This team is going nowhere and wouldn't be if we'd won those two games. And this is the same Haynesworth that has limped back on to the field at every chance he got this year. Based on what I've seen of him ths year, I'll trust that for him to not be able to go, this must be a bad injury

Posted by: Original_etrod | November 30, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Love that we're getting the young guys involved. They can be good options next year.

With how well Betts, Rock, and Ganther are running, CP should be gone. Not saying those guys are long term answers, but if those guys can run decent with a horrible O-line against good defenses, CP is all the more expendable. We should dump CP or take anything offered for him.

CJ SPILLER!!

I think we should keep JC another year, just because all of the other holes are so much more glaring and it would take up far too much of our depleted resources to invest in any decent QB.

Gotta feel bad for JZ and JC who keep plugging along despite getting killed every week. JC has the heart of a champion.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 30, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

No kidding Zorn has to go, heard the announcers yesterday stating that they thought he should come back for continuity purposes...thats a joke right!

It looks as if that guy has zero credibility with this team

I think we need a complete overhaul, I dont see these players playing hard for these coaches ever again.

What a deflating loss. Defensive scheme is getting picked apart, secondary is garbage with or without the injuries.

It is good to see that some of the youth movement is getting to play.

I would bench Moss and let the 3 youngsters and ARE play. Tryon had a pretty decent game.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Oh, and that's either 4 or 5 game-LOSING drives we've had this year.... where we had the ball and a chance to take the lead in the 4th quarter, and didn't score. If thats on JC or JZ or everyone, not sure.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 30, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

moe, I guess my bigger point was that all we heard about Davis was that he giggled, and didn't know the playbook, until he got a chance, and turns out that indeed he apparently did know the playbook, but the coach's are idiots, and instead of using these players, chose to ignore them....kinda like with DT on kickoff returns...instead of using him, Zorn stuck with Rock....the 1 factor that remains the same in all of this is JZ...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

It looks as if that guy has zero credibility with this team

Actually, it looks just the opposite. They're playing hard for JZ, despite the season being over. That say's he's still got their attention...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

mrredskin21

"...I think the "silliness" is people dismissing a QB who the team drafted - and who has yet to play down in the NFL - as a bust."

For every Drew Brees, there are five 6 feet 3 plus Mannings, Bradys, and 235 pound Vince Youngs.

Celebrating the exception as the rule is poor argumentation.

BTW: Aren't you the guy who was posting this summer that Mike Vick was a player the skins needed, then you got upset when he went to Philly?

You sure were right about Vick coming back to dominate, weren't you?

And no one called Colt Brennan a bust, just second rate.

There will be guys better than him in the second round next spring.

I'd rather have one of those guys.

You can keep Vick and Brennan.

Maybe they can go surf dog kennels together.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworth is many things, but I don't believe "soft" is one of them.

If he could have played, I'm sure he would have.

As for Marshall Faulk and Warren Sapp sitting in a comfortable studio and gabbing about how Big Al needs to play, I chalk that up to sensational comments = ratings.

I also chalk it up to pure unadulterated ENVY, especially on the part of Sapp, who was never within sniffing distance of the kind of money Big Al now makes.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Bean, with Betts on IR does that mean you lost our bet?

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

I see. So Colt Brennan, who has yet to play in a regular season game, is "second rate."

And you're advising me re "argumentation."

Got it.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Greg

I agree...common factor of suckness is Zorn. I too like DT11 returning kicks, first 2 were the best we have seen in quite a while. Punt returns still suck.

BTW, I also loved the call at the goal line with the bootleg and JC taking the ball in, beautiful.

JC has looked better at times, but damn he gets killed in there. 2 int, sucked, but I think the misses on some of those longer or over the middle throws were what really killed us.

Someone needs to get in Landry's face and tell him to just tackle, I hope AH body slams him the next time he takes a flying leap past a WR or just bounces off.

I like Ganther, worried that Rock, Betts and CP are all going to be 30 very soon. Rock has shown he can play it all, you can tell he is having fun.

Edwin Williams looks pretty good, but I thought he was drafted to replace Rabach??

Hail Skins, tough loss, but I think we got to see alot out there yesterday to be excited about.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

And Mista, nooooooooooo... I did not lobby for Vick to sign here.

And after seeing him throw that pass (if you can call it that) to a wide open Celek yesterday, I'm just as glad the Skins didn't sign him.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

The first people to go need to be Cerrato and Zorn (who plays not to lose).

A culture change is needed, for sure, at both positions.

Beyond that, they are missing their third round pick this year, right? I'd shop Moss around for a third. I don't think he's happy here, and I think the only way DT and MK progress (and one becomes the primary WR) is if Moss goes.

Ditto: ARE, Carlos Rogers, and - if I had MY way - Portis.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Greg

I disagree that Zorn has their attention and that they are playing hard for him...

I think they are all auditioning for other teams or the new coach coming in. I watched Zorn tried to talk with JC at least 3 times, granted it was through the TV, but each time, JC just walked away or turned his shoulder, to me that is not playing hard for Zorn. IMO

I think they like him as a person, and it seems that he is easy to like and a great person, however, I dont see him motivating this team to push them over the top.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

My favorite stats I saw yesterday:

Vince Young has 8 now 9 game winning/tying 4th quarter drives despite sitting on the bench for half his career. Jason Campbell? 7. And Peyton Manning? 5 this season.

JC seems to be a great person which is why I think he gets so many excuses made for him and so much slack for having never won anything of consequence or shown any ability to get it done in crunch time. He's weeks from beginning his Patrick Ramsey impersonation.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

yeah, zj, I lost the bet, had Betts been used properly, or used all year long, instead of just one game, it would have been a different story.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2

"Vince Young has 8 now 9 game winning/tying 4th quarter drives despite sitting on the bench for half his career. Jason Campbell? 7"

Young getting his sh!t together is a great story.

And I'm inclined to believe what Tony Dungy said last night: guys who won on the highest level in college can do so in the NFL.

Tebow in the 2nd round?: maybe not

Tebow in the 4th round?: maybe

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Not good to see someone get hurt, but that hit from Fletcher to D. Jackson did not seem that big, but man he looked wobbly trying to get up.

D. Jackson is a serious player, kid is really good. If DT11 can turn out to be anywhere near that I think we got a good one, he showed some stuff yesterday, but finally MK12 caught a sideline pass that was pretty.

I hope to see them and Mitchell more involved as the year goes on. WHY NOT?

I think it is time for Moss to leave or take a back seat.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Let's get a couple more things straight. Our line is the worst in the league. We are bad on the outside and on the interior line.

Outside:

Sacks are usually a result of poor play by the offensive tackles. The vast majority of JCs sacks are under the 3 second mark. Peyton Manning gets the ball out in 3 seconds. He's regarded as having the quickest release in the NFL. Adequate protection is between 3 and 4 seconds. Brady and Rodgers both take the vast majority of their sacks at around the 4 second mark. This implies that they are getting adequate protection. We are offering under 3. We aren't even offering enough pass protection for Peyton Manning to be good here. This has to be the #1 priority. No one will be good here until this is fixed.

Interior:

Our other big issue is that we don't have much of a pocket to step into because our center is being pushed back about 2 yards on every snap. Typically the right guard gets pushed back too but Edwin actually held his own this weekend. The interior line getting pushed back causes the QB to have to throw in place and prevents him from stepping into his throws and can also inhibit his vision of the field. This results in tipped balls and inaccuracy. This is why Todd Collins looks just as crappy as JC.

This doesn't even include our terrible run blocking. We have virtually no success running to the left especially at left tackle. Our line can't pass protect or run block. They have to go. This has to be the #1 priority in the offseason. At this point in the season our passing offense is actually ranked higher than our run game. Our running game needs addressed next. It needs to be our #2 priority.

We are 30th in pass protection.
We are 24th in rushing.
We are 22nd in passing.
We are 21st in run blocking.

Our priority list should be(excludes defensive needs):

#1 Left tackle.
#2 Right tackle.
#3 Center.
#4 Right Guard.
#5 Running back.
#6 Quarterback.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

I also like DT returning kicks.

What is downright bizarre is that every now and then ARE still returns punts.

In God's name, WHY????

I saw Moss back on returns a couple times yesterday, but every now and then - inexplicably - ARE is back there, ready to do his patented east-west shuffle and fall forward for a yard or two.

That's Zorn for ya.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

"yeah, zj, I lost the bet, had Betts been used properly, or used all year long, instead of just one game, it would have been a different story.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse"

No it wouldn't have. Bradshaw is basically the starting RB with the Giants when healthy. It was a dumb bet, man up and admit it. Plus you bet on REALITY...like you know Betts rides the pine if CP is healthy...you KNOW the Giants use everyone. Not what you think should happen. Bradshaw has way more upside then Betts, that was the cold hard reality of Jack-Z's point.

Whateves, both teams in the crapper
which is at least a tiny consolation.

I love all this "they played hard" stuff....gag me...sports is about results if you all wanna cry yourself to sleep with all the "I see lots of positives" horsesiht be my guest. This franchise is diseased to the core. If they can cut out Vinny and Zorn this offseason and use the healing salve of a real football mastermind at the helm than maybe we can move to the recovery ward.....if not its just all another big circle jerk with the fans eating the coated cookie.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 30, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Vince Young has 8 now 9 game winning/tying 4th quarter drives despite sitting on the bench for half his career. Jason Campbell? 7. And Peyton Manning? 5 this season.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 9:42 AM


Yet another post that confirms JC is an average QB in the NFL. However, given the current needs of this team, not a damning fact that resources need to allocated elsewhere first (i.e. OL (3), speed RB, DT, CB, LB, FS, WR)

Posted by: TWISI | November 30, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

We are 30th in pass protection.
We are 24th in rushing.
We are 22nd in passing.
We are 21st in run blocking.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 9:52 AM |
----------------------------

But we're still 1st in pass defense! LOL

Hard to believe too, because it seems most of the close games we've lost have been as a result of long pass plays.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

paskinsfan17

Our priority list should be(excludes defensive needs):

#1 Left tackle.
#2 Right tackle.
#3 Center.
#4 Right Guard.
#5 Running back.
#6 Quarterback.


No one can fault your logic.

But the linemen choices you want would've been better in the '09 draft.

And they weren't made.

Why?: Vinny drafts by Best Player Availiable, not need.

And he ain't going nowhere, folks.

Plus: You have to remember the team believes in Heyer at left tackle and Rhinehart at right guard.

Williams is a future center or guard.

Dock is playing fine.

Levi Jones might be a redskin next year, for all we know.

That means right tackle is the real position of need.

And Ciron Black, LSU (2nd round)would make a fine choice for that spot.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

#1 Left tackle.
#2 Right tackle.
#3 Center.
#4 Right Guard.
#5 Running back.
#6 Quarterback.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Wait a second, is that QB on the list???? I thought Jason Campbell was the best QB in the league PA and that if he had a good oline he would be just as good as any of the top QBs. That's what you have been saying on here.

I don't think there is a person on here who has ever tried to defend our Oline and say it isn't the #1 priority. But there are a lot of ways to address it. You can find quality even elite starters on the oline in free agency, not so much with QB. The fact is we need at a minimum to keep Heyer and add 3 other tackles 2 of which need to be starters, and we need 2 guards 1 of which needs to be a starter.

However, if we sign 4 olineman in free agency and if we're picking at 9 or 10 and Okung is gone (which he definitely will be) I want them to pick a QB. My dream scenario would be that we are picking high enough to get Okung and then Tony Pike at the top of round 2 but if we're not high enough to get Okung then Spiller or a QB needs to be the pick. I have a problem with the way they've approached the oline but the fact is they aren't going to find 3 starters and 2 backups in one draft. They are going to have to use Free Agency to fill most of the holes and if they are smart and do that then they can draft an impact player in round one. One of the top two picks has to be a OT but the entire draft shouldn't be oline. Use FA to rebuild the unit, and draft one olineman in the top 3 rounds every year from now on.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

But McNabb delivered his biggest play on the go-ahead drive against veteran corner Carlos Rogers, who returned to the starting lineup against Philadelphia because top corner DeAngelo Hall (knee) sat out.

Benched in the Week 10 victory over the Denver Broncos, Rogers was the most experienced corner on the field late in the game. And McNabb still went after him.

He teamed with rookie wideout Jeremy Maclin for a 35-yard gain down the right sideline to Washington's 28 with Rogers in tight coverage. "Great catch and throw," Rogers said. "I was thinking slant because of the formation, and once I turned and ran, just a great catch and throw to his outside shoulder. Wasn't too much you could do about it."

That my friend is Rogers in a nutshell, lousy starting corner with his standard excuse......can they just cut this guy today....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

mrredskin21

"...I saw Moss back on returns a couple times yesterday, but every now and then - inexplicably - ARE is back there..."


I'll say it before anyone else will:


THERE ARE 5 FREAKIN' GAMES LEFT!!!

BENCH ANTWAN RANDLE EL!!!!

LET THE YOUNG'NS PLAY!!!!


I think I may have go my point across.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 30, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

"You sure were right about Vick coming back to dominate, weren't you?"

Right, because the Eagles have no doubt put him in the right situations to maximize his full potential.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 30, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

#1 I've never once said he was the best QB in the league. I've always said he was mediocre and we can win with him. BTW, he's on the list because after RB and offensive line there aren't a whole lot of players left on offense. I list QB as a need because I feel that a team should always be developing a young quarterback. Once your QB has been around for 5 years you really need to have another guy in waiting.


#2 Where are you getting the cap space to sign 4 free agent linemen and have you actually seen who will be available? Teams don't often let linemen go. Look for most of the free agent linemen to get resigned.

#3 Drafting Linemen is better than getting them in free agency. By the time they hit free agency you've already lost 4-5 years of their careers. By drafting them you could be set for a decade. They are one of the safer bets in the draft.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe Boswell actually said Campbell is in the same class as Carson Palmer.

Kornheiser just opined that if you lined 100 people up and asked them to choose between the two, no one would pick Campbell.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: CindyBoren | November 30, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

#3 Drafting Linemen is better than getting them in free agency. By the time they hit free agency you've already lost 4-5 years of their careers. By drafting them you could be set for a decade. They are one of the safer bets in the draft.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Explain to me again how we'll fill 3 starting positions and at least 2 backups with only 2 first day picks? If the collective bargaining agreement gets extended we'll be fine, we have lots of expiring contracts as well as cuttable contracts not to mention the impending retirement of Samuels and Thomas. If it doesn't get extended well then the cap space really isn't an issue now is it? We seemed to find a quality starter in Dockery through free agency, there are starters out there if you make signing them a priority. We're not going to plug 5 holes with just draft picks, that's pretty naive.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I can't believe Boswell actually said Campbell is in the same class as Carson Palmer.

Kornheiser just opined that if you lined 100 people up and asked them to choose between the two, no one would pick Campbell.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 30, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I laughed out loud when I read that. Seems pretty obvious Boswell spent 30 seconds checking the league QB ratings and determined that they were about as good as each other. Perhaps he should stick to writing about baseball...

Posted by: mattylight | November 30, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/11/30/speculation-increases-about-rock-star-coaches

excerpt:

What could end up being a lot more likely for Shanahan, we hear, is a new gig in Washington, given the multiple meetings that took place between him and Redskins owner Daniel Snyder earlier this season, Snyder's willingness to overspend, and the ties that exist between Redskins executive VP of football operations Vinny Cerrato and Shanahan from their days together in the 49ers' organization.

Posted by: TWISI | November 30, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Yeah the hilarity of saying that Joe Flacco, Carson Palmer and Matt Hasselbeck are the equivalent of Campbell was amazing, he should have his press credentials revoked right there.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

They are going to have to use Free Agency to fill most of the holes and if they are smart and do that then they can draft an impact player in round one. One of the top two picks has to be a OT but the entire draft shouldn't be oline. Use FA to rebuild the unit, and draft one olineman in the top 3 rounds every year from now on.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

I see both sides of the argument, but I personally always will side with getting pieces along the lines BEFORE getting skilled players around them. A QB or RB are only as good as the offensive line, IMO. Have a young, strong offensive line intact, then go get your stud QB or running back. They'll thrive much more that way I think. The other way around risks stunting their growth (especially in regards to a QB), or a greater risk of injury...

Posted by: mattylight | November 30, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

twis, I want no part of shanny, but if going 3-13 means that VC stays, then this just makes it that much worse...I'm sure we were all hoping that 3-13 would mean the end of him......ugh....

Did shanahan draft Clady?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Holy Sh!t. Are you serious?

Posted by: Original_etrod | November 30, 2009 9:24 AM

Yeah O_E, I was serious, if Haynesworth had played these games, I think we win. I wasn't questioning his toughness, just saying that even a 75% AH probably would have been enough. It's unfortunate that he was unable to "tape it up" for our division rivals.

Posted by: OffseasonChamps | November 30, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Explain to me again how we'll fill 3 starting positions and at least 2 backups with only 2 first day picks? If the collective bargaining agreement gets extended we'll be fine, we have lots of expiring contracts as well as cuttable contracts not to mention the impending retirement of Samuels and Thomas. If it doesn't get extended well then the cap space really isn't an issue now is it? We seemed to find a quality starter in Dockery through free agency, there are starters out there if you make signing them a priority. We're not going to plug 5 holes with just draft picks, that's pretty naive.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse


You're naive if you think we can fix this team in one draft. Stop thinking about next year or even the year after. You really need to start looking at 2013. You also have to realize that we need a lot of cash available for 2012 when half our team is up for free agency. I'm sure you want to keep some of these guys.

2012

Colt Brennan
Malcolm Kelly
Devin Thomas
Fred Davis
Chad Rinehart
Justin Tryon
LaRon Landry
Kareem Moore
Chris Horton

2013
Kevin Barnes
Jeremy Jarmon
Andre Carter
Chris Cooley

We need to stay away from free agency for a while and build through the draft.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Let me pose a question:

Now that we see that some of these young kids can actually play, does Cerrato still need to go? Did he actually draft pretty well and Zorn just did not utilize the players properly? What will Snyder think after seeing some of these late season games when the youngsters are stepping up, Tryon, Barnes, 3 goat WR/ TE, E. Williams, etc???

Any thoughts?

I hate Cerrato, still dont think he is the guy, but you have to wonder?

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Explain to me again how we'll fill 3 starting positions and at least 2 backups with only 2 first day picks? If the collective bargaining agreement gets extended we'll be fine, we have lots of expiring contracts as well as cuttable contracts not to mention the impending retirement of Samuels and Thomas. If it doesn't get extended well then the cap space really isn't an issue now is it? We seemed to find a quality starter in Dockery through free agency, there are starters out there if you make signing them a priority. We're not going to plug 5 holes with just draft picks, that's pretty naive.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse


You're naive if you think we can fix this team in one draft. Stop thinking about next year or even the year after. You really need to start looking at 2013. You also have to realize that we need a lot of cash available for 2012 when half our team is up for free agency. I'm sure you want to keep some of these guys.

2012

Colt Brennan
Malcolm Kelly
Devin Thomas
Fred Davis
Chad Rinehart
Justin Tryon
LaRon Landry
Kareem Moore
Chris Horton

2013
Kevin Barnes
Jeremy Jarmon
Andre Carter
Chris Cooley

We need to stay away from free agency for a while and build through the draft.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Who said anything about fixing the team in one draft. We are a long ways from being a stable team and a legit contender. I'm just talking about building a starting unit on the oline with competent backups, I promise you will not see 3 draft picks starting on our line next year is all I'm saying no matter who the coach or the GM is there will be some FA lineman signed and starting here next year.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Did shanahan draft Clady?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 10:43 AM

He did. I feel the same way about Shanny if Vinny is still involved in personnel decisions. The team needs a different voice leading them.

Posted by: TWISI | November 30, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan to the Skins will soon be if we keep losing close games like this and Vinny stays. He'll need to stay so Shanny can enjoy that level Vinny provides from avoiding criticism.

If Vinny goes, then we will get Grimm or Gray.

Simple

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 30, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

mhartz, yeah, he still needs to go, while I agree, the failures of the 2008 draft are largely on the shoulders of JZ for not utilizing them properly, or at all in some cases, VC has had too many swings and misses.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I cant see Gray being the HC of this team, no way. With all the issues of our DB's getting burnt severely every game, how do you hand him the keys to this kingdom?

I think Grimm is a great choice, but something tells me he does not interview well...

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

I just think that free agency should only be used to patch the last few holes on a legit contender. We overuse it too much and that's why we are where we are. We have no quality depth and our backs are up against the salary cap wall. Free agents are often older players and they tend to get injured more often. That really hurts us because of the physical play style in the NFC east. We must account for 5-6 starters being knocked out every year. I'm tired of being 8-8 and I'm tired of backing into the playoffs every few years just to be booted in the first or second round. I want to build a legit contender and that all starts up front. I don't want competent starters. I want a dominating line. I want 2 tackles in the first two rounds this year.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

mhartz, yeah, he still needs to go, while I agree, the failures of the 2008 draft are largely on the shoulders of JZ for not utilizing them properly, or at all in some cases, VC has had too many swings and misses.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Just for the simple fact that other than Snyder the only other constant through this decade of suckage is Vinny. Snyder needs to step up and finally say his way hasn't worked, here is the new big name coach with total control or here is the new GM with total autonomy and I'm gonna go make movies with Tom Cruise for a while.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

greg, I agree, just wondered what others thought, now that we are seeing some production out of these picks.

I think even with the production we are seeing, you look at D. Jack at Philly and other great players that were taken at around the same time, you have to wonder what he was thinking. It bothers me greatly, how much they are under utilized by Zorn...I really never pictured JZ as such a control guy, i.e my system, no changes, no young guys playing = no trust in younger players = stupid.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

great take two tackles then who starts at RG? probably a free agent?

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

You wonder what people think of this org, when Holmgren would rather go to Cleveland than come to Washington. Now I get that he does not like how Zorn was treated, but christ how else do you treat a moron...

I still dont think Gruden is out of the running, I think he is using ESPN as leverage for more $$. However, I do like him on MNF.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Chris Polian was recently promoted to the day-to-day GM job in Indy, meaning Bill (who still serves as president of the team), perhaps could be persuaded to come here for the right price...?

I can dream, right?

Posted by: mattylight | November 30, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

no young guys playing = no trust in younger players = stupid

10000% agreed. So it turns out that Davis did know the playbook, and guess what? He's actually pretty good.

For that in itself, JZ needs to be fired. The whole facade of "davis doesn't know the playbook/giggled" was to me, just a lie....JZ needs to be called out on that one....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

great take two tackles then who starts at RG? probably a free agent?

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

BMW
Chad Rhinhart
4th round draft pick

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Greg, EXACTLY!

In this league and right now, you cant give these kids millions of dollars and not trust them, you have to TRUST them. I think that builds confidence in the players and across the board for the team.

How can you be a legit HC in this league, NOW if you dont respect and trust the young players that can make or break you. Ridiculous to coddle them and treat them like kids at this point. One of the single worst things he has done while coaching here is to not get these kids ready right out of the gate. SO the kid overslept, you cant tell me that Hippy ZOrn never overslept as a player.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

IMO, here's what every skins offensive player should do:

They need to sit Zorn, & both Smiths down and let them know that they are sick and tired of this conservative play calling. They are fed up with playing it safe. They have had it up to here with playing “not to lose”. Let the coaches know that they want to play a wide open offense, they want to take chances, and they want to attack the end zone. When it’s 3rd and 10, they don’t want any more fuc&%$# screen passes. When it’s 3rd and 11, they want the QB to throw the damn ball at least 12 yards down field. If it’s 3rd and one at the opponent’s 21 yard, they don’t want to kick any more fuc&%$# field goals. Let the coaches know that you want to play to win the mother fuc&%%$ game.

Posted by: kingpenn1 | November 30, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

what made the oversleeping worse was the morons who tried to make it something it wasn't, and to THIS DAY still bring it up...I mean, at this point, the whole lets go back and draft someone different thing is out of the question, due to a lack of time-machine, but exacerbating the Davis pick was JZ just not using him...just letting him rot on the bench....galactically stupid...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

One other thing, can we please abandon the TE screen that gets thrown behind the line and never works, I hate that play.

amazing how running the ball, opens up the pass, until they stop running the ball...Zorn, Snyder, whoever needs to figure out the identity and stick with it.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

10000% agreed. So it turns out that Davis did know the playbook, and guess what? He's actually pretty good.

For that in itself, JZ needs to be fired. The whole facade of "davis doesn't know the playbook/giggled" was to me, just a lie....JZ needs to be called out on that one....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I'd also agree. Goes for all the youngsters. The only one I don't trust is zorn. Well, snyderatto too. And I also extend this to JReid/JLa and their penchant for painting certain players as prima donnas and others as hard hat guys, then beating the point into the ground until everyone on this blog believes it.

Posted by: AdamCr | November 30, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

it amazes me that yesterday, against a pretty good Defense, Skins converted a sh!t ton of 3rd downs, some exceeding 10 yards, pretty easily I think too. Yet when Tryon gets the INT, we act like we cant do a damn thing, get conservative and stay medium. WE moved the ball all game, why stop NOW!

Another thought is an 8 point lead is no reason to play PREVENT defense, I am so sick and tired of the PREVENT defense, it does nothing but prevent us from winning and making a stand. D plays pretty good all game, except for some pretty big gaffes on DB's, why not let them pin their ears back and go after them, someone please explain this logic???

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

And I also extend this to JReid/JLa and their penchant for painting certain players as prima donnas and others as hard hat guys, then beating the point into the ground until everyone on this blog believes it.

Posted by: AdamCr | November 30, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Did you really need JReid or JLa to convice you that Portis is a prima donna? Thought that one was pretty obvious...

Posted by: mattylight | November 30, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

exacerbating the Davis pick was JZ just not using him...just letting him rot on the bench....galactically stupid...
-----------

well, technically we had been using him. Only problem is it was just for end arounds and screens! It's as if we were wishing he was Desean Jackson and calling his plays accordingly.

Posted by: AdamCr | November 30, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

I will repeat myself...I think we need a complete overhaul of the coaching staff, not just HC, but we need to come in and determine what our IDENTITY is and stick with it. Make sure it caters to our talent on both sides of the ball and commit to it. WCO is not it...You look at all positions and both sides of the ball and it seems like we jump back and forth on what we are and what we need to do. Drives me nuts! We run well, then we stop and do the short yard passing game, we pass well down the field, then we back up and start the short yard passing game again, when all else fails, lets run the ball when they are stacked on the run, kills me.

I think S. Lewis calls the plays, but Zorn has a lot of influence and it sucks.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Personally I am impressed with Davis. Yes, he got off to a terrible start here but he seems to have matured greatly and is now a hard worker. I have heard him take responsibility for his blocking errors in several interviews, and commit to do better (as opposed to Kelly, Portis, et al, pointing fingers and saying their teammates have to do their jobs, as if they themselves are doing just fine and someone else is the problem). I have to give big kudos to Fred Davis for being mature enough to acknowledge that he needs improvement to excel at the pro level, and for committing to work towards it.

Posted by: jksesq1 | November 30, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

the Skins will actually win 3 or 4 more games - which unfortunately will not 'encourage' Snyderatto to make huge changes next off-season.

Posted by: charley42 | November 30, 2009 4:57 AM


This noob has made two mistakes:

1. He looked at the Wizards' schedule, not the 'Skins. The Wizards can get 3 or 4 more wins this year. Maybe a half dozen. The 'Skins are done.

2. He forgot that Snyder and Cerrato make huge off season changes every year. They don't need encouragement. It's how they roll.

Otherwise, he's accurate.

Posted by: League-Source | November 30, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

I wish we would use Davis more like Gonzalez, let him run some deep routes in the middle of the field...still waiting on crossing routes or more slants to get Kelly, Davis, Thomas more involved.

The WR screen does not seem to work anymore, every team in the league knows we are running that play. Almost like running left for the skins.

I have been really impressed with Rock and Ganther, strong runners that hit the hole like they have a purpose. We have watched Portis not do this for 2 years and not practicing, so why when Betts/ Rock and whoever are practicing and hitting the holes hard, were they not playing at all??? I know $$ is committed to Portis, but when it is not there and he plays poorly, why keep plugging a round peg in a square hole??

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Zorn is gone, that's a given and it is for no other reason than this, his main charge when hired was to develop Jason Campbell. He hasn't come close to even improving Campbell, if anything Campbell is worse now than when he got here. The list is long of why bad use of young skill players, too conservative, oline age injuries, and on and on but the simple fact is Zorn basically had one job, stay out of the defense's way and develop Campbell. IMO he failed because of one reason he tried to force Campbell into his system as opposed to molding his system to Campbell and the players we have. As much as I bash Campbell (I think he is a quality NFL backup, not a starter) he can do enough for you to win if you have a good coach. A good coach sets up his players to succeed, not sets up his system and requires players to do things they aren't good at. JC is not a quick dropback, quick read, accurate rhythm QB. He is a shotgun/play action/mobile QB who feeds off of a good running game. From day one Zorn should have used all his backs so they stayed fresh not beat Portis into pulp and then continue to pound him after he was ineffective and ultimately got hurt (as proved by the fact that once CP got hurt our running game has been very effective) in order to take pressure off of JC and allow him to do the things he does well with rollouts and make him worry about making one read or hit the dump off. This is what caused Zorn to fail, and is why other than the Cowboys game a Bingo caller has come in overseen the our highest point total games of the season.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Did you really need JReid or JLa to convice you that Portis is a prima donna? Thought that one was pretty obvious...

Posted by: mattylight | November 30, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

first off, I personally don't think he's a me-first player. In decline, appears so, but thats not the point. Plus, I didn't mention portis, you did. They try to smear plenty of guys they don't like and cover for others. It's just annoying.

Posted by: AdamCr | November 30, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

@mhartz -- EXACTLY! You said it very well. The team has no IDENTITY or vision and that is a failure at the top of the organization. If you are going to run a West Coast offense, I disagree with that decision, but if that is Danny's decision, then you have to get the personnel and staff in place to run it. You can't run West Coast with Joe Gibbs' QB and receivers, any more than Gibbs or Gregg Williams could run their schemes with the personnel gathered for Scott, Rhodes, Marvin Lewis, Spurrier, etc. ad nauseam. Find an identity and stick to it, don't just go hire someone else like Holmgren or Shanahan because they're famous and trust them to build your roster. Find a GM who fits your long term philosophy for the team - IF YOU HAVE ONE.

(Of course if your only vision or long-term philosophy for the team is just hiring famous people who used to be stars and telling them to go out and play football together, the above strategy will not work).

Posted by: jksesq1 | November 30, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

first off, I personally don't think he's a me-first player. In decline, appears so, but thats not the point. Plus, I didn't mention portis, you did. They try to smear plenty of guys they don't like and cover for others. It's just annoying.

Posted by: AdamCr | November 30, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

I hear you, relax. And yes, I mentioned Portis, only b/c that's the guy JReid has ragged on. Is there another player on the Skins you think has been unfairly casted as a prima donna?

Posted by: mattylight | November 30, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

I do think we could draft a couple of OL and we would do alright next year, possibly add a FA OL. I think E. Williams is a good player, as is Levi Jones (except against T. Cole), Heyer needs to go, but could be depth, Dockery is pretty solid and Rabach is getting old. Having said that we have been able to run behind these past two games lineup and even have enough time to pass on some downs. Batiste needs to go, as does Will Montgomery.

Was A. Monty active yesterday? Anyone know.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Let's get something straight: the defensive players in the NFL are the better athletes in the league.

You can have the best offensive linemen in the world, and guys like Merriman, Orakpo, Harrison, and Carter will still make plays.

Posted by: Mistermoe

Let's get something else straight, that's a load of hooey.

If a guy rushes the passer, say 35 times a game, and has one sack, does that make him a superior athlete to the Olineman blocking him? No. 16 sacks a year is all pro level. That's one a game. Meanwhile, the big ugly has kept the pass rusher away from his QB 34 times a game times 16 games. And knocked him on his ass on running plays.

As a kid, what position does the best athlete get to play? QB. Or running back. Fastest player gets to play receiver. Strongest gets to be fullback.

Oh yeah, the fast kid without enough hand-eye coordination to catch a ball? He is forced to play defensive back.

I'll grant you Linebackers and strong safeties are the most cut and maybe best swimsuit models. Doesnt' make them the best athletes on the field.

Olinemen, unless injured play the whole game. DLinemen have to be rotated.

And for as long as the Redskins continue to believe the Oline is irrelevant--well you can bank on that many years of mediocrity.

Posted by: TheCork | November 30, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Fair enough. Portis is definitely the biggest example. But he's continually repeated devin's inability to master the playbook and fred's giggling. Yet since sherm Lewis showed up they both look decent, so it would seem jz has the inability. Meanwhile, no scathing questions about this in press conferences. Just goes on about how zorn was put in an impossible situation from day 1. I'm no vinny fan, but it's looking more and more like zorn deserves his share of blame.

Posted by: AdamCr | November 30, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

is "simple" the new "Book it" 4th?

Recent 4th "book its" that look brilliant: Bengals winning division and Cushing. Cushing is BEAST. I have him in two IDP fantasy leagues and he is a stats machine. Thanks 4th!

Vinny HAS 2 GO! Some of you people think these young players are all pros already. Look they play more, they are gonna get stats. Have they improved yes. Are they good draft picks still remains to be seen.

Posted by: chrislarry | November 30, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Vinny HAS 2 GO! Some of you people think these young players are all pros already. Look they play more, they are gonna get stats. Have they improved yes. Are they good draft picks still remains to be seen.


Posted by: chrislarry | November 30, 2009 11:44 AM

Huh? It remains to be seen whether they're good draft picks so let's assume they're not and fire Vinny? Shoot first and ask questions later.

On the other hand, if we do fire him and they turn out the way they're developing, then we can always hire him back from ESPN. Doubtful he'll have a job with another NFL team. So we'll shoot him first and then drive by the hospital and pick him up after we've answered the questions.

Posted by: League-Source | November 30, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

not sure anyone said they were all-pros, just that given that they're actually being used, turns out they can play...suddenly Davis learned the playbook from the time that Cooley got injured to the time that he was put into the game...sorry, I don't buy the crap that JZ is trotting out there....too much evidence to the contrary....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 30, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Fair enough. Portis is definitely the biggest example. But he's continually repeated devin's inability to master the playbook and fred's giggling. Yet since sherm Lewis showed up they both look decent, so it would seem jz has the inability. Meanwhile, no scathing questions about this in press conferences. Just goes on about how zorn was put in an impossible situation from day 1. I'm no vinny fan, but it's looking more and more like zorn deserves his share of blame.

Posted by: AdamCr | November 30, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

I definitely agree with you there. The kids have been much better recently, which makes us all wish they were this involved from Week 1....what might have been...

Posted by: mattylight | November 30, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Let me pose a question:

Now that we see that some of these young kids can actually play, does Cerrato still need to go?
Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 10:45 AM |
-------------------------------------------
Yes. The neglect of the offensive line in the draft was all Vinny. The trade for square-peg-round-hole Jason Taylor? Vinny. The lack of tryouts for offensive linemen throughout this season even though everyone knew the o-line was the biggest weakness: Vinny. The mis-handling of the Campbell trades? Vinny.

I'd argue that the talent level of the players drafted had more to do with the scouting org. Where they were drafted, and the position chosen, was all Vinny. Vinny brought in the WCO and hired an inexperienced coach to coach a team that had players not compatible with that style of offense. I'll be nice and give Vinny credit for orchestrating the draft of Orakpo and Jarmin, but even a blind squirrel can find a nut sometimes. The neglect of the offensive line was by far the dumbest thing in football this year and that right there is reason enough to send him packing.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 30, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Vinny having to go has nothing to do with the 3 second rounders. It has everything to do with his team building philosophy of bringing in a system that didn't fit 90% of his roster, by completely ignoring the trenches as well as depth creating a top heavy roster of "stars" with no heart, cohesiveness, or ability to handle the normal injuries of an NFL schedule. Once a starter gets hurt its guys off the street behind them but despite that our team has actually improved the more Vinny's starters go down because the guys on the field now play with heart and with something to prove. The guy has no business being in charge of an NFL franchise.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 30, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

The suggestion that perhaps Vinny should stay based on the development of some of his draft picks (DT, MK, FD) ignores the most damning evidence of all:

He hired Jim Zorn. Zorn's been his guy from Day 1, and while I'm not blaming everything on Zorn, his poor playcalling, unwillingness to play younger guys, conservative approach in crunch time, the regression of Campbell, etc. all show he wasn't the best choice as a HC.

That alone is what gets a lot of GM's fired in the NFL -- they hire a coach, he can't get it done, GM is held responsible for the hire. Should work the same way with Vinny...

Posted by: mattylight | November 30, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

what redSkinHead said...

WR/TE/WR was still dumb regardless of the players or their output.

If you don't think Vinny has 2 go, well I don't know what to say....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 30, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Things that good GMs do:

Re-sign young talent.

Only use free agency sparingly and when it is to fill a need on a legit contender.

Only trade players for picks when you need to fill a hole on a legit contender.

Draft with a balance of needs vs talent.

Ensure that each player has a competent backup.

Provide the coach with the players needed to fit their scheme.

Things Vinny does:

Dumps good young talent in favor of free agents.

Trades for players every year even if the team has more needs and is in no position to win.

Signs free agents every year even if the team has more pressing needs at other positions.

Drafts best player available regardless of team needs.

Counts on undrafted free agents to provide backup to players in one of the most physical divisions in football.

Adapts a scheme that fits less than 10% of his players.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 30, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I wasnt stating he should stay, Simply wondering if some of the fair weather fans would now be on Cerrato's nuts, since some of the young ones are playing well.

I 10000% agree that you have to look at the lack of OL drafting or FA pickups, the hiring of Zorn and the handling of the entire scouting department. Not to mention the handling of the Zorn charade.

I wonder if it will take someone like Gruden, Cowher, who ever to say, we wont work there unless Vinny is gone for Snyder to pull the trigger there. I see him keeping Cerrato and letting Zorn go, but then more changes when he cant lure anyone...

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 30, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what to say....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 30, 2009 11:59 AM

Truer words were never posted on RI!

Posted by: League-Source | November 30, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

This team needs an identity and a 3-5 year plan.

I do not believe the WCO will lead us to the promised land, and I do not believe we can fix this with one draft and FA off season.

I'd rather see us get back to power football and go more vertical with our pass game. We have the defense already, let's match up the right O and make it the team concept.

We have numerous big, young fast receivers, so we look pretty good there. Our running game needs to be addressed. I'd like to see a big power back who can run the ball join the fun. We need to commit to building a dominant O line. I'm not convince JC-17 will be much more than a credible back-up, so we will need to keep our eyes out for opportunities there. This year, priority #1 is O line Dominance, then RB.

Find the right GM to build it, and get a guy like Russ Grimm to lead it and you have a program you can stick with, grow with and win with. Everybody will know what we're doing - get on or get out. That would create the consistency this team has desperately needed for a decade now.

Posted by: edvar | November 30, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: TWISI | November 30, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Game ball to Campbell, a true warrior!

Big day for the sophomores Davis, Thomas, Kelly, Tryon, Moore all contributed. Many fans wrote them off as busts. Cheers to the fans who are giving them a real chance.

Although, my heart is breaking almost every week this team is showing some heart. Start adding back in Portis, Cooley, Haynesworth, Hall and this team is starting to gel.

Bring 'em all back next year and add in a few O line.

Campbell is by far the best QB of the Snyder era, know it, love it, live it!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 30, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what to say....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 30, 2009 11:59 AM

Truer words were never posted on RI!

Posted by: League-Source | November 30, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

F TE & LS....

Posted by: chrislarry | November 30, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

"Explain to me again how we'll fill 3 starting positions and at least 2 backups with only 2 first day picks? If the collective bargaining agreement gets extended we'll be fine, we have lots of expiring contracts as well as cuttable contracts not to mention the impending retirement of Samuels and Thomas. If it doesn't get extended well then the cap space really isn't an issue now is it? We seemed to find a quality starter in Dockery through free agency, there are starters out there if you make signing them a priority. We're not going to plug 5 holes with just draft picks, that's pretty naive."

Posted by: zjfr2


Ok, obviously we are not signing 4-5 decent FA linemen. Even if there are 3 of starting caliber available, other teams occasionally want to sign some too. Plus, if Samuels and Thomas retire, I don't think we get all of their cap space back (assuming of course, there is a cap). I think that whatever amount of the signing bonus remains spread out over the years they have left on their contracts either remains as is, or gets accelerated to next year. I could be wrong on the particulars, but pretty sure we don't get a free pass.

Plus, with significant free agent lineman, you usually overpay for what you get. And this team has a really bad history with trying to bring in 'top talent' via free agency. If they are able to sign one solid starter in FA, and maybe one to help fill out depth, that will be great. The rest you have to do thorugh the draft.

On top of that, we don't definitely need to replace all of the linemen. The o-line plays as a unit, so adding talent anywhere upgrades the unit as a whole, based on different things it allows them to do with protection schemes. And whichever guys they do replace as starters are good enough to be the backups.

I think they have guys who can hold down the fort at G next year, so I would focus on Tackles (Left if one they like is available, or a RT if that's best on the board) and a Center, either to take over for Casey next year, or at least be in the wings. Looking at the centers available next year, they might be able to get one of the better ones still in the fourth round. But since o-line is their most pressing need, if they have to use their 1st and 2nd to get the guys they want, I say go for it. But I don't think they have to use the 1st and the 2nd.

After that, there are a variety of ways to go, but at some point they need to address their LB depth. Fletch can't play forever, and it would be nice if they let Orakpo just put his hand in the dirt and have a full-time strong side LB.

Oh and btw, the Skins, like most teams, have only one first-day pick next draft...because the draft is moving to a three day event with just the first round on day one, but I take what you meant =)

Posted by: ts35 | November 30, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Vinny has to go OR fix the O line this off-season.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | November 30, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

next season put c. williams in at center and rinehart back at right guard draft a LT RB and RT with the first 3 picks, drop down in draft and get 2-3 additional picks hopefully right tackle can step in immediately and replace heyer. drop west coast offense and throw ball downfield. don't draft another qb sign campbell bring back the great white hope brennan take a look at the qb they just brought in and bring in another veteran free agent qb and let them battle for jobs. all of the above and more should be done with a new GM and head coach not with SIR-ratto and pumpkin puss zorn"

Posted by: wathu19 | November 30, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

As much as I like to bash Vinny for his poor drafts, it looks like Thomas, Kelly and Davis all will be contributors long-term. Thomas in addition to his receiving skills should be returning all kickoffs. Davis has impressed and will be a nice combination with Cooley next year. Kelly has great hands and made two big plays yesterday.

The chemistry that JC has developed with the young receivers in the last 4 games since Cooley got hurt has been very noticeable. With a couple of good tackles from next year's draft and a running back with speed, this offense could actually be pretty exciting. Although Snyder will probably want Campbell gone after the season, it's pretty apparent that there are only about a dozen QB's better than him and they play on better teams.

I shudder to think about a season with Toddball as a caretaker QB while we try to develop a Colt McCoy or Jake Locker. Draft to build up the line, a young stud RB like McCoy of Philly, and keep some continuity with the receivers.

Posted by: wizfan89 | November 30, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Here is the problem with the "no cap" scenario. The Cowboys, Patriots, Giants and Jets all have plenty of resources to spend, and are better football destinations than Washington right now (bad record, lots of personnel question marks and turnover, new coaching staff, clueless front office). Why would an elite free agent choose Washington over one of the aforementioned teams? Danny has money, but so do they. Sure, even with the internet and real estate bubbles bursting and 6 Flags going belly up, he may still rich enough to throw untold millions at "less than Pro Bowl caliber" or "used to be Pro Bowl caliber but now over the hill" players, and if so, where exactly does that get us? Maybe the usual hard fought 8-8 but not to the playoffs. Becoming a perennial playoff team means developing a culture of scouting, making excellent draft choices, and supplementing them with a few outside players, not signing a team loaded with Albert Haynesworths which their own teams did not value enough to sign...

Posted by: jksesq1 | November 30, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

And for all of you who think Free Agency is the cure-all, there is a nice write up on the 2010 OL class at: http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html. Not a Pro Bowl candidate among them except maybe Evans and I doubt the Saints will going to let him go. Plus he doesn't address the most glaring need, LT.

DB is even more sparse: http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/db.html. Carlos Rogers is the best FA in the class!

Nope. We are going to have to draft, and be patient.

Posted by: jksesq1 | November 30, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jksesq1 | November 30, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Logan Mankins would definitely be someone they should look at if the Pats let him go. But given his interest in a winning franchise, this might not be his first choice (cough), unless he likes whatever HC they bring in next year...assuming it's not still Zorn, because with this crew, you just never know. And there are some decent spot-starters or vet backup guys on that list too. If this year proves nothing else to Danny, Vinny, et al, hopefully they learn the value of having a few veteran backups around.

Posted by: ts35 | November 30, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

"Greg
I like Ganther, worried that Rock, Betts and CP are all going to be 30 very soon. Rock has shown he can play it all, you can tell he is having fun."

FYI, CHECK YOUR FACTS...
Rock and Betts are already over 30, and Sellars is 34 i believe. Besides an O line, we need an entire new backfield - let cp move on to hollywood (he's only 27 but his football age, due to the abuse, is over 30!), betts is unfortunately done, sellars is approaching the top of the hill.

the good news is that vinny has us covered - wow, we have 5 draft picks in the next draft.

Posted by: dougbalt | November 30, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

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