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Maximizing the Haynesworth Effect

After Albert Haynesworth's introductory news conference in February, Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, continued to answer reporters' questions for a while.

The Redskins had just made the Pro Bowler the highest-paid defensive player in league history, and someone asked Cerrato if he was concerned that Haynesworth had played on only about 60 percent of the snaps last season with the Tennessee Titans. Haynesworth's playing time was not an issue, Cerrato said, adding all teams rotate defensive linemen.

And most of the Redskins' interior linemen were on the field for about as much time as Haynesworth in 2008, Cerrato added. The bottom line is Cerrato and owner Daniel Snyder knew what they were getting in Haynesworth.

It's all about quality with the eight-year veteran. Not quantity.

So the Redskins were not surprised when Haynesworth was on the sideline at times during Sunday's 23-17 loss to the New York Giants at Giants Stadium. They also knew what to expect when they watched him collapse the pocket on plays and help to stuff the Giants' productive running game while battling double-teams.

New York had a 3.3-yard average on 31 rushes. Last season, the Giants were first in the NFL with a 5.0-yard average.

Power back Brandon Jacobs had a 2.9-yard average and 46 yards. He had a 5.0-yard average in each of the last two seasons while rushing for almost 2,100 yards. Haynesworth stopped Jacobs for no gain on fourth down at the Redskins' 3-yard line in the second quarter, and the Giants ran more to the edge, presumably, because Haynesworth was in the middle.

Haynesworth obviously showed what he brings to the team, but the Redskins probably need to make some changes to get the most out of him and the entire defensive line moving forward.

Defensive coordinator Greg Blache, formerly the team's defensive line coach, prefers versatile players, and the Redskins have several along the line. Phillip Daniels, Lorenzo Alexander and Albert Haynesworth play tackle and end.

Alexander, however, dropped about 30 pounds in the offseason (he weighs around 270) in anticipation of filling the role in which Demetric Evans performed so well last season. Alexander is the backup right end behind starter Andre Carter and also rushes the passer on third down from an interior spot.

But with Haynesworth out of the game and Anthony Montgomery inactive, Alexander played a lot at tackle in the opener. He played well, but I'm not sure he could hold up doing that all season at his weight.

Daniels starts at left end and slides inside when rookie defensive end/strong-side linebacker Brian Orakpo moves up front. But more depth might be needed on the line unless Haynesworth substantially increases his playing time in the first season of a contract that guarantees him $41 million and could be worth as much as $115 million based on performance.

At the very least, the Redskins should strongly consider having every defensive tackle available each week. I was really surprised Montgomery was not active, simply because of how much I expected Haynesworth to be on the field Sunday. The coaching staff chose to have rookie wide receiver Marko Mitchell active in Week 1, and it came down to a decision between Mitchell and Montgomery, Coach Jim Zorn said.

"That was an issue for me," he said. "The issue for me was really going to be between Montgomery and Marko Mitchell. I had some four wide receiver stuff, and I didn't want a receiver to go down and take us out of that. I left Marko up thinking that we could put Phil Daniels inside if we got into trouble."

The Redskins face the St. Louis Rams in their FedEx Field opener this week. It would make sense for the staff to re-evaluate its thought process with the line, and Zorn said he plans to reconsider.

"We'll get a better feel for what we can do, and what we can't do, and what that rotation will be," he said. "Every week, I think I'm going to agonize over deciding the last two or three guys who are inactive to maybe get a bigger guy in when the run game is stellar.

"I wanted to get Marko Mitchell in there. He had been doing pretty well during preseason, and we didn't utilize him that much. It's a hard decision."

By Jason Reid  |  September 14, 2009; 3:41 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Haynesworth and the Fatigue Factor

Comments

Defense has me concerned for sure. D. Hall is a ball-hawk, but not a great cover corner. That said, we scored 17 points and the D only allowed 16, so its hard to put much of this on them.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 14, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Jason - Could you ask Coach Zorn how he feels about running the no-huddle offense to start a game? The Eagles run it quite often, I note, and Jason Campbell, even under the guidance of Al Saunders, seems extremely confident in that form of offense.

Posted by: ColumbiaUSkins | September 14, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

The Rams won three games last year and failed to score a TD against the Seahawks.

If we of the NFC East beat the sorry Rams next week, I think we can glean pretty much nothing from it.

If we lose to the Rams, however...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Exactly. I still won't take nothing from that game if they win. They need to beat a good team to see if they truly have improved. Yeah, watch Zorn be more aggressive next week cause he knows the Rams stink. But when they go against a good team again, he'll regress to the old conservative mode, giving the other team too much respect before they even get on the field.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

"I wanted to get Marko Mitchell in there. He had been doing pretty well during preseason, and we didn't utilize him that much. It's a hard decision."

You're the coach. How hard is it to say "Marko you're in. Go catach a TD."

Posted by: TWISI | September 14, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

I don't get why people are not more worried about this defense. Yes, we only gave up 16 points defensively, and yes our red zone D looked solid... but you cant be a bend dont break type defense with an offense like ours. I understand that a lot of blame needs to go on the offense, and trust me I've backed off a lot of my support for Campbell (he looked tentative and scared most of the game and you cant have that) but still our defense was supposed to be special and yesterday is was not.

Forcing 1 punt, and what 1 sack is not what was expected. Allowing Eli 10 seconds per pass was not what was expected. Watching Bust Hall out there get beat repeatedly and be unable to tackle a little Mario Manningham, was not expected.

We cannot win if our defense does not force punts, and allows teams to consistently march down the field. It will not happen. Our offense is soo bad and our defense was "supposed" to be too good for this...

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | September 14, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

He played well, but I'm not sure he could hold up doing that all season at his weight.

By Jason Reid | September 14, 2009; 3:41 PM ET

----------

When has it ever been established that weighing more equates with being able to hold up better over a season?

This is a ridiculous presumption.

Lean muscle mass is where it's at.

If Haynesworth dropped 15 pounds, he would be more effective, not less, and Alexander weighing 30 pounds less will help him, not hurt him.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

the open field tackling was remarkably bad...

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth = Fail

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

I agree about Haynesworth - his conditioning is more of a concern than his girth. I was shocked Montgomery was not active given the Giants running game.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | September 14, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

If our "D" can't get off the field more frequently when facing 3rd and long, we're in for a long season. That said, they performed pretty well against one the top O-lines in the league. We knew we weren't going to the Super Bowl... but yesterday's game suggests we might be able to grow into a playoff team as the season progresses.

Posted by: outsider6 | September 14, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

True, stumped.

Thought it might be.

These guys don't do much tackling in camp.

Our secondary looked too permissive.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Chia / Gal I think thumping the Rams would tell us a LOT about the Redskins.

Last year, if they had beat the teams they were supposed to beat, they'd have been 10-6 or better. Instead they struggled against the Seahawks, Rams, Bengals, Browns, Lions, and Niners, winning only 3 of 6 when they should have had 5.

So, going out there and thrashing the Rams, hanging 30+ on them, would tell me a lot about the 09 Redskins.

Posted by: dpc2003 | September 14, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

There was an interesting article in the Sunday NYT on injuries in the NFL.

It turns out older players are not more susceptible to injuries than younger players.

And as if we didn't know, injuries are a huge factor in the game and a team's success.

Hammies are the most prevalent injury the causes missing playing time.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Defense has me concerned for sure. D. Hall is a ball-hawk, but not a great cover corner. That said, we scored 17 points and the D only allowed 16, so its hard to put much of this on them.

Posted by: mhaslup1
_______________________

Hard to put much of this on who, the offense? You're kidding, right? Our punter scored 7 on a trick play, and another 7 came in what was practically garbage time, against a prevent D with little rush, so... the Skins offense totally sucked, it was incompetent. And as many here have said, most of that was because of pitiful play-calling (let's say 75% of the reason we lost), and then JC's horrible clock speed and lack of pocket awareness/instinct/moves (let's say JC was 20%).

The Skins secondary definitely did not play well, so I'd say they're 5% responsible... but the overall D was good against a very strong O-line, held the Ginas to 16 pt's, and will get better.

And the O-line actually did a serviceable job. The problems were Zorn and JC.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

The bigger the girth, the worse the conditioning.

File under "C," for cause and effect.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

I do not see a playoff team here... outsider6 were we watching the same game? Our defense didn't look solid, outside of our own endzone it looked awful. It gave and gave and gave, large chunk after large chunk. We stopped the run, only to let a huge pass. We stopped the pass only to let up a first down run... where in there is a playoff defense? Yes 16 points is decent, but a lot of that is the Giants offense is not that great. The young wrs are not all that polished and made some poor reads and dropped some balls... Haynesworth will be fine. Give everyone time to realize what he does and doesn't do and he'll start wrecking havoc again... but until then we need to get Bust Hall off the field as often as possible. What a waste of money. I'd rather Tryon out there and anyone who knows me knows how I feel that about short little bit** sjk.

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | September 14, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Carolina Panthers backup QB put on IR. Now they have to get another one. Maybe we'll face someone besides Jake "oops" Delhomme when we play them afterall.

Posted by: will_ga | September 14, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

So, going out there and thrashing the Rams, hanging 30+ on them, would tell me a lot about the 09 Redskins.

Posted by: dpc2003 | September 14, 2009 4:09 PM

----------

Cool.

Hope it makes you feel better.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

...And one of the most astonishing findings is that there is no correlation between proclivities for lemon meringue pie and having a metal plate in one's head.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

I miss Monday Morning H-Backing.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth = Fail

Posted by: BenchCampbell

Did u even watch the game or are u just commenting on random sh$t???? cause Albert was pushing up the middle the WHOLE time.. It isnt his fault the people beside him cant get off single man.... he had two men sometimes ice skating backwards....... u need to reevaluate how much u THINK you know about football before you speak on a public forum buddy

Posted by: cocodc1 | September 14, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Keep Marko up. Put DT11 down. Keep Monty active.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Chia - you read it wrong. When Haynesworth is only smaller than the old BMW, he means Money'sowrth will need to lose weight in order to keep the pace at the end of the year.

I will take good things from a win @ St. Louis if we do these things (in no particular order):
1)tackle well
2)stop leaving a MF-ing 10 yard cushion
3)call an imaginative game
4)Campbell steps up properly in the pocket
5)better emotion demonstration/control on the part of the team
6)better focus - no fonguel celebrations when you're still losing, not letting a 2nd class corner beat you to the ball when you are THE #1 WR (Santana).

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | September 14, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

mhaslup1- We should be concerned with the defense. Especially the pass defense. Did you see how easily Manning was completing passes? Or how far off the defensive backs were playing? It's a HUGE problem when it's 3rd & 8 and we cannot get off the field. The tackling was beyond horrendous.

Posted by: rachel216 | September 14, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth = Fail

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 4:06 PM |

What did you want him to do, should he have had 10 sacks would that have made you happy. He did what he is supposed to do clog up the middle and take on double teams if the ends can't beat there man 1 on 1 thats not on Haynesworth.

All the football radio guys said he had a great game they probably know a little more then you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

cocodc1... he didn't do anything to disrupt the game. He made 1 game changing play and for a man who was paid 41 million guaranteed thats not good enough. He was in the back field a few times, but he spent as much time off the field as he did on. I agree when he played he got some penetration and pushed the line back, but thats not 41 million dollars worth of production. It may not be fair but thats how life is when you get paid that much... gotta produce game changing plays consistently or people will be upset...

Again, I say give him time, and the defense time. Last year we got run over by the Giants, literally, and this year we did not. Our D stopped the run for the most part. Now we need to learn how to get off the field. Luckily its still week 1... so lets stop all this panic cr&* sjk now please... it is early and we have time to adjust...

Too bad our offense simply is not good.

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | September 14, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Karen,

I'm not reading anything wrong.

I take issue with JR's statement about Alexander being less durable at 274 pounds than he would have been at 305.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

The only thing the D was good for was stopping short yardage on 3rd and 4th. When it came to 3rd and long, they couldn't stop anyone. Manning was escaping sacks like he was a young Vick. Too many times Manning found some no name wide open in the middle of the field for a first down. But I thought the D line did a decent job going against one of the best O lines in the league. And after that failed deep throw to Moss, they never went back to it. Its like if something doesn't work (besides running the ball for 2yds), Zorn curls up into the fetal position.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

I do see a potential playoff team even in that loss. If we can get a little better as the season progresses and stay healthy, then I see 7 or 8 non division wins in our schedule, we got a very generous schedule this year. If we can go 3 for 3 in our division, we might get a wild card spot.

I think if you're writing off the Skins from a close loss in an away game to a top tier opponent, you're a hysterical chicken little.

Posted by: rexforab | September 14, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

foul on Jason Reid. yes the jints averaged 3.3ypc on 31 rushes. Or, they averaged 3.8ypc on 28 rushes and took 3 kneel downs to end the game.

The Skins looked more effective at slowing the jints powerful run game, but for JR to count the kneel downs -- foul!!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

PAS1,
I'm with you. I thought the D would step up from last year: solid but now with the ability to take away the ball. I thought opposing QBs would be under constant pressure, and our D could actually put points on the board.

I'm not saying they can't do those things, but they didn't do them yesterday. And I will give credit where it's due, they definitely looked better against the run.

Last year, there were times when mediocre teams ran all over them. Five or six straight runs, getting 1st downs. (Note to Zorn: other teams see a weakness and explout it.) It was absolutely awful at times, and it looks like that problem's been corrected. Kudos.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

flound, don't waste your time...some people you just can't reach....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Defense has me concerned for sure. D. Hall is a ball-hawk, but not a great cover corner. That said, we scored 17 points and the D only allowed 16, so its hard to put much of this on them.

Posted by: mhaslup1
_______________________

Hard to put much of this on who, the offense? You're kidding, right? Our punter scored 7 on a trick play, and another 7 came in what was practically garbage time, against a prevent D with little rush, so... the Skins offense totally sucked, it was incompetent. And as many here have said, most of that was because of pitiful play-calling (let's say 75% of the reason we lost), and then JC's horrible clock speed and lack of pocket awareness/instinct/moves (let's say JC was 20%).

The Skins secondary definitely did not play well, so I'd say they're 5% responsible... but the overall D was good against a very strong O-line, held the Ginas to 16 pt's, and will get better.

And the O-line actually did a serviceable job. The problems were Zorn and JC.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

You misunderstood. I'm saying you can't put much of it on the defense.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 14, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

There certainly is a severe lack of football i.q.

From the owner, to his racketball punching dummy GM, to the coach, to the QB.

Nobody worth hiring (GM or coach), with an accomplished NFL resume, would take this job. What a cluster f!

Posted by: ksquare | September 14, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I'd hire 2 people this week:

[1] Jeff Garcia... for high clock speed, aggressiveness, leadership, quick release, pocket awareness.

[2] Hire a heavyweight offensive consultant, like a Holmgren etc, and pay him $1 or $2 million to have him get Zorn's play-calling up to speed asap.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

For those who think haynesworth played bad, he is not a sack machine, he pushes the pocket so the QB can not step up then the DE need to beat there man. He also stuffs the run, just look at Jacobs numbers last year against us and this year totally different.

Orakpo needs to play DE the entire game he is not a SSL he is a DE, we need to stop thinking we can switch people to new positions.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

The skins can have 5 Haynesworths on the
D-line and it wouldn't matter as long as the corners are constantly giving mediocre receivers a 10 yard cushion

Posted by: pennstate1 | September 14, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I think Blache will ride his guys hard this week for their weak tackling and we'll see improvement next week. The wheels didn't exactly fall off the defense. They played pretty well generating an interception and a turnover on downs. The Manningham play looked ugly and the coverage could have been a little firmer. LL's late hit on Jacobs was silly and he'll get an earful for that. I don't see the defense as a problem, and I don't think activating Montgomery is going to change anything. I thought Doughty and Horton had a pretty good day, although they were prowling the line of scrimmage more than dropping back in pass protection. The lack of help deep was probably why the defensive backs were playing such a soft zone.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse


mhaslup1- We should be concerned with the defense. Especially the pass defense. Did you see how easily Manning was completing passes? Or how far off the defensive backs were playing? It's a HUGE problem when it's 3rd & 8 and we cannot get off the field. The tackling was beyond horrendous.

Posted by: rachel216 | September 14, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

I hear you, but bottom line is that all of that is secondary to "points allowed." The defense could have done more to help the offense out, but I think we can all agree that if we could guarantee they only allow 16 points each game we would take that tomorrow in a heart beat. Offense needs to move the chains and score points so the defense isn't overused.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 14, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I think if you're writing off the Skins from a close loss in an away game to a top tier opponent, you're a hysterical chicken little.

Posted by: rexforab | September 14, 2009 4:19 PM

----------

Other than the deceiving 6 point differential, there was nothing "close" about this game.

One team looked like they had their sh*t together, the other team did not.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth = Fail

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 4:06 PM |

Apparently on the highways yes, but on the football field yesterday, you're nuts. He was the only guy not getting blown 2 yards off the ball every snap despite having two and sometimes three guys blocking him. He was pushing the pocket every play, and that ripping off of Bradshaw's helmet tackle and then just walking over and handing him his lid back was awesome! I thought he showed up big time. he whole Dline played pretty well against the run, the pressure was disappointing though, Orakpo made no real bad plays but didn't make any big plays either as I thought Carter was really the only consistent outside threat in pass rush situations and he still didn't get there much. That said though, Eli did a decent job of moving in the pocket and getting rid of the ball, plus his receivers were open most of the day....but none of that was Haynesworth's fault, he played well...

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

@Flounder

Totally agree about Orakpo. I think you take a pick like that and play him to his strength every single play. They're going to waste an entire season of first and second down's on him, and in the process they might make him WORSE at DE because he won't get into a groove.

Line play is a chess match and you can't play head games one out of every 3 downs nearly as well as you can 3 out of 3.

Posted by: rexforab | September 14, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

For those who think haynesworth played bad, he is not a sack machine, he pushes the pocket so the QB can not step up then the DE need to beat there man. He also stuffs the run, just look at Jacobs numbers last year against us and this year totally different.

Orakpo needs to play DE the entire game he is not a SSL he is a DE, we need to stop thinking we can switch people to new positions.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Completely agree -- we draft someone based on what he did well in college, and then change his position...if he excels at rushing the passer, let him do it on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down...if JC17 is comfortable and more productive in the shotgun, let him be there more often...no need to be a team that keeps trying to out-think the room...

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Actually, neither team looked like they had their sh*t together. If the Giants were together, they would have put the game out of reach early. The Giants performed much better, but the bottom line is that the game came down to an onside kick. If No. 95 had been paying attention to where the ball was and reached up and caught it, the Giants would have been in serious trouble.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 14, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Flound... thats completely true... Orakpo needs to spend the entire game with his hand on the ground, and let Daniels come in when its clearly a run play. What a waste, with him and Jarmon we might have a decent set of ends in 2 years... if we let them play. I dont get the point in wasting Orakpo's abilities by having him try to cover te's. It is not his natural skill...

However, moving back to what counts. Our D line did not create the kind of pressure necessary. The jints have a solid line, but you cannot give any qb the kind of time eli had. If the line cant get there, blitz... but you cannot give him 10 seconds to throw, especially on third and long... which we did a number of times.

Also, anyone who says anything positive about Bust Hall... well i don't think anyone will so whatever, but that man is an awful football player. He may have owned up to it after the game but I don't care. He could not cover guys like Manningham or even Nicks before he got hurt. How is he going to cover guys like Roy Williams or Eddie Royal or even Desean Jackson... Waste of money.. the next Adam Archuletta (to be honest I do not care how he spells his name).

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | September 14, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

they need to move Rak around as well, and don't just have him rush from the DE spot either, have him rush on Daniels/Carters outside shoulder....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

mhaslup1- But our defense also cannot stop anyone in critical times. When we need a key stop, they can't get it. This happened last year as well. When it was 17-10 Giants, we needed the D to not give up any points but it turned into a two possession game and was pretty much over then.

Posted by: rachel216 | September 14, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I noticed the DE's were rushing up the field but getting pushed passed Manning. Maybe more bull rushes should of been utilized, I don't know. But I grade Haynesworth first game as a B. And as far as him being off the field, it was noted early on that he would be on the field for about 60% of the time. My only issue is that Montgomery wasn't out there.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

COCODC1 see if any of this sounds famaliar to you...

First off the remember the Redskins had the 4th ranked defense in the NFL last year... but had a complete collapse on the O line in the second half of the season to go 2-6

and here is the solution????

Signing Big Al who hasnt played a whole season since his rookie year is 28 years old and will receive 32 million in his first 13 months of a 6 year deal??? A guarantee of 41 million?? We didnt need him and so what if he was putting pressure up the middle if we dont have anyone on the end that can produce sacks!! Did you not see him on the sideline sucking wind?

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell and Eli Manning and both had a bad interception and a bad fumble yesterday. So why aren't Giant fans all over Eli like we're all over JC?

Well, obviously, because Eli won. But it's also because Eli's offense does not require QB perfection. Ours does.

Zorn can say whatever he wants about what his offense is "designed" to do...but the way plays were called yesterday, there was no room for JC error, not one. We simply aren't aggressive enough to make up for any mistakes.

Of all the games I watched yesterday I didn't see a mistake-free QB game, even from Mr. Brees. And until we get aggressive and call plays that can compensate for mistakes, I'm never going to be convinced that we need to get rid of JC.

Posted by: PrisonMike | September 14, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Since when did Jeff Garcia, who is 39 years old, become the savior in waiting for the Washington Redskins?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

You misunderstood. I'm saying you can't put much of it on the defense.

Posted by: mhaslup1
_______________________

Got it, my mistake.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo needs to play DE the entire game he is not a SSL he is a DE, we need to stop thinking we can switch people to new positions.

Posted by: Flounder21

I 100% agree with you. only one problem, who would play SSL?

Posted by: NFeKPo | September 14, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Greg,

agreed on moving him around.

Rachel,

Agree on we need to get better on 3rd down. We have to start playing bump coverage.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Other than the deceiving 6 point differential, there was nothing "close" about this game.

One team looked like they had their sh*t together, the other team did not.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

And last year how close was game 1, then we went 6-2. So how can you give up on the playoffs already given a better season opener than last year?

Posted by: rexforab | September 14, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

If No. 95 had been paying attention to where the ball was and reached up and caught it, the Giants would have been in serious trouble.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 14, 2009 4:26 PM

---------

Yeah, only if we recover the kick and score a TD.

If, schmiff.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

OK - repeat after me - Haynesworth is a TACKLE, not an END! Most tackles are not in the game to produce sacks, so if you're looking for some kind of measurable or obvious production on the part of Haynesworth, you aren't going to see it.

Ask yourselves this, instead. Did the Redskins do a better job of stopping the run then in last year's season opener. I think the answer is a qualified yes.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

If No. 95 had been paying attention to where the ball was and reached up and caught it, the Giants would have been in serious trouble.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 14, 2009 4:26 PM
I know right! I was thinking the same exact thing. Atleast go up for the ball, I mean he's only like 6'4''.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Chia_Pet,
I'm with you, man. Garcia is past effective at his age. Campbell is our guy whether we like it or not, and Zorn just needs to use him more effectively. Don't get me wrong, I am not jumping on the Campbell bus because he made some bone-headed plays yesterday, but he's the best we've got and or can get at this date.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Signing Big Al who hasnt played a whole season since his rookie year is 28 years old and will receive 32 million in his first 13 months of a 6 year deal??? A guarantee of 41 million?? We didnt need him and so what if he was putting pressure up the middle if we dont have anyone on the end that can produce sacks!! Did you not see him on the sideline sucking wind?

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 4:28 PM |

So your argument is they never should have signed him, say that instead of saying he played bad. Whats done is done he is signed so lets move on.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

I read it again Chia; Reid's an idiot, especially since many good DE's are skinny bundles of muscles.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | September 14, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

On 3rd and 4th down conversions (the indicator most directly connected with success), the teams were about even. It's time of possession where the Giants got the big edge. But that too is deceptive; the NY victory was mainly the result of a few big plays. The Skins still didn't get a great deal of pressure on Manning.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 14, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I 100% agree with you. only one problem, who would play SSL?

Posted by: NFeKPo | September 14, 2009 4:29 PM |

Good question I think Wilson would be better at SSL.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

So how can you give up on the playoffs already given a better season opener than last year?

Posted by: rexforab | September 14, 2009 4:30 PM

----------

Please stop making silly comparisons from one year to the next that mean nothing at all.

In the words of Jim Mora:

PLAYOFFS?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

So what %'s would you give to what causes for the loss yesterday?

> play-calling ?%
> JC ?%
> secondary performance ?%
> O-line performance ?%
> other ?%

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

By the way, for those of you grumping because the team didn't win yesterday, look at it this way: the team lost eight of their last ten last year so adding to that brilliant performance, the Redskins have now lost nine of their last eleven. There, doesn't that make you feel better?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

So how can you give up on the playoffs already given a better season opener than last year?

Posted by: rexforab | September 14, 2009 4:30 PM

----------

Please stop making silly comparisons from one year to the next that mean nothing at all.

In the words of Jim Mora:

PLAYOFFS?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

What exactly would you Haynes haters have done with the cap space anyway? The only other option I can see would be to keep Shawn springs and pay him more than he's worth just like we're paying Haynes probably more than he's worth. You could make an argument for that given our crappy secondary play in game 1, but then again how well would they have run on us if we had springs instead of haynes. It's impossible to know, but I think haynes did his job in game 1.

Posted by: rexforab | September 14, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

So what %'s would you give to what causes for the loss yesterday?

> play-calling ?%
> JC ?%
> secondary performance ?%
> O-line performance ?%
> other ?%

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 4:37 PM |

> play-calling 40%
> JC 20%
> secondary performance 20%
> O-line performance 10%
> other 10%

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Karen,

No one said Reid is an idiot.

I said he made a faulty presumption linking a player's body weight to his ability to withstand injuries.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"but I think haynes did his job in game 1."

Jacobs ended up with 2.9 YPC, the Giants' running success came off the edge, the pocket was collapsed on the sack/FF, the pocket was collapsed on the Eli INT, and he was the key cog in the 4th down goal line stand. I'd say he did his job extremely well.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

> play-calling 45%
> JC 5%
> secondary performance 35%
> O-line performance 15%
> other 0%

Posted by: rexforab | September 14, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

I'm fine with the Orakpo as LB experiment ... as long as its an experiment and we know how to best use him by the end of the year. Orakpo has great speed and it can be put to use in more than one way. I also like the idea of him blitzing from unexpected angles.

I wouldn't mind seeing Orakpo playing free safety. He's a bit slow for the position, but I can't imagine many WRs would want to come over the middle ...

Anyway, I'm not going to assume he can't be even more effective as an LB. But I agree that we need to see what he does best at an NFL level and let him do that, full time.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

OK - repeat after me - Haynesworth is a TACKLE, not an END! Most tackles are not in the game to produce sacks, so if you're looking for some kind of measurable or obvious production on the part of Haynesworth, you aren't going to see it.

Ask yourselves this, instead. Did the Redskins do a better job of stopping the run then in last year's season opener. I think the answer is a qualified yes.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Good post, I couldn't agree more. The way I see it Haynesworth had a positive impact in several ways, most notably.

1. made the stop on 4th and goal.
2. prevented Giants linemen from getting downfield and blocking LB's.

People like BenchCampbell just want to Monday Morning Quarterback and nothing more. Any move the front office makes they will complain. There is no point in trying to argue because they will ignore logic and argue hypothetical situations.


Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 14, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

> play-calling 5%
> JC 30%
> secondary performance 30%
> O-line performance 30%
> other 5%

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Sadly, and I am a skins appologist through and through, but I do not see us being better than our 8-8 record of last year. I defense will be better, our schedule is easier, yet somehow I think our offense will be worse. We were the same offense with a full healthy oline. We all know Samuels is not holding up for an entire year, and neither is Randy Thomas. WE have younger backups who have upside and talent, but none with real experience. Anyone from our oline goes down, especially Samuels, and our terrible offense digresses to GOD AWFUL... (not to sure its not already there...)

I hope I am wrong, and yes this is only 1 week. Maybe Zorn adjusts and we start making more aggressive play calls and actually executing... but I just do not see it...

Hopefully I'm wrong, and you can say what you want about it, but until Zorn and Campbell prove me wrong, I do not see an offense here that can win football games. Any game we win will be because of the D, and if we play like we did yesterday that wont be very many at all...

Posted by: peoplearestupid1 | September 14, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

> play-calling 30%
> JC 30%
> secondary performance 20%
> O-line performance 5% best Dline in football they more than held their own
> lack of pass rush and poor tackling 10%
> 5% WRs without three names

question for the crowd, anybody else get a little nervous whenever Cooley starts running with the ball right now? It popped out several times last year, and twice Sunday, fortunately he had stepped out on one and was down on the other but ball security seems to be creeping in as an issue for him.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

z,

I noticed that as well about Cooley, he needs to work on that.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

No fine for McNabb hit
Posted by Mike Florio on September 14, 2009 4:22 PM ET

When Panthers defensive tackle Damione Lewis dove onto Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb in the end zone after McNabb scrambled for a three-yard touchdown run, the officials inexplicably didn't penalize Lewis.

Now, the league inexplicably is giving him a pass, too.

Per Jason La Canfora of NFL Network, Lewis won't be fined for the play.

Um, really?

Watch the video. Lewis crosses the goal line to dive on McNabb, hitting him a couple of yards into the end zone.

Setting aside whether quarterbacks receive special protections (and they do, or so we thought), any player who is clearly in the end zone should not be subject to a swine dive from a 300-pounder who ran into the end zone to apply the hit.

It's a bad, bad decision. And it makes the line regarding what is and isn't acceptable extremely vague moving forward.

>
>
>
good piece here, I saw the hit live and couldn't believe there was no flag, even more shocked there was no fine, he was 5 yards into the end zone before the guy even went for the hit, it was pretty amazing...

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo needs to spend the entire game with his hand on the ground, and let Daniels come in when its clearly a run play. What a waste, with him and Jarmon we might have a decent set of ends in 2 years... if we let them play. I dont get the point in wasting Orakpo's abilities by having him try to cover te's. It is not his natural skill ...

OK - repeat after me - Haynesworth is a TACKLE, not an END! Most tackles are not in the game to produce sacks, so if you're looking for some kind of measurable or obvious production on the part of Haynesworth, you aren't going to see it.

Well NO, **NOT EXACTLY**, the coaches in INDY found Haynesworth ill suited to the disciplined approach to lane stuffing required of tackles sooooo ... that's right ding, ding, ding, ding dude they moved him to END! He played end more than 50% of the downs and almost every pass down last year.

Haynesworth has the athleticism to play end. He is bigger, a much more powerful force than Orapko, Carter, or anyone else you might with to put at end. So, why not use Griffin, Golston, Alexander, and Montgomery at tackle while Haynesworth, Daniels, Carter and Orapko/Wynn play end?

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

I wasnt trying to say Haynesworth had a bad game... I just dont see how adding him to our roster was supposed to magically change this team. The Defense was solid last year why bring Big Al here and make him the highest paid player in NFL History at his position when there are FAR more pressing needs... This offense be it Zorn or JC's fault is disjointed. I cant remember the last time I watched a ball game where the offense really looked like they were in sync. In the high flying offense of today you must score points to win... Everyone can say what they want about easy schedule but as far as I can tell we are going to win any shootouts this year

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

question for the crowd, anybody else get a little nervous whenever Cooley starts running with the ball right now?

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 4:45 PM

----------

Watching Cooley run is never pretty.

The idea of him putting the ball on the turf does make me nervous.

But I love me some Chris Cooley, nonetheless.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth was just fine and had a strong game... He may be just a little out of shape but I suspect many players on the Skins and throughout the league don't have perfect conditioning when they start the season.

The secondary has issues but this D will be top 10, maybe top 5. It's not the problem...

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the update, did not know that Peri.

However, that does not change where he WAS playing yesterday.

Tackle.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

"I wasnt trying to say Haynesworth had a bad game... I just dont see how adding him to our roster was supposed to magically change this team."

It's supposed to magically create sacks and turnovers. And it might, it's kinda hard to tell after one game against a really good o-line.

Posted by: rexforab | September 14, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Cooley is just a motherlovin' beast.

He never goes down on first contact. I love that.

The flip side is that he gassed by the time the defender is bringing him down, causing him to slack a little on ball security.

I hate that.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo needs to play DE the entire game he is not a SSL he is a DE, we need to stop thinking we can switch people to new positions.

Posted by: Flounder21

I suggest giving Wilson and Orapko a chance at line backer. Linebackers do blitz and do have double digit sack numbers. Check out the Ravens for verification.

Given the above post, their effectiveness against the run, clearly everyone is in the right position. They just need to cover the pass receivers as they did last year to give the rush time.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

I just dont see how adding him to our roster was supposed to magically change this team.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 4:49 PM

--------

No magic here.

It just makes us a better football team.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Peric,

I would not mind Haynesworth playing end on passing downs.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth did not play more than 50% of downs at DE last year. He rotated occasionally to DE on passing downs, but it was nowhere near 50%, let alone more than that. Kyle Vanden Bosch and Javon Kearse took up a vast majority of the snaps at DE for Tennessee. Someone is taking a previous analysis that identified Haynesworth as a versatile player that was moved around on occasion to confuse defenses and hyperbolically twisting it into something completely different.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

"No one said Reid is an idiot."

Which Reid are we talking about here?

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo will be a much better weapon if he can play both positions.

If every time he is in he edge rushes the passer, he can be neutralized. If he plays both positions, we can show many different looks and confuse the opposing offense.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I just dont see how adding him to our roster was supposed to magically change this team.

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 4:49 PM

I would argue that no player in this league can magically change a team if the pieces around him don't execute.

The only player that might be an exception right now is AP.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 14, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Yo cL....you out there?

Posted by: 4-12 | September 14, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Something tells me RedDMV will not be attending the Jason Reid appreciation banquet that Nate has in the works.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Well NO, **NOT EXACTLY**, the coaches in INDY found Haynesworth ill suited to the disciplined approach to lane stuffing required of tackles sooooo ... that's right ding, ding, ding, ding dude they moved him to END!

Posted by: periculum

Haynesworth never played for Indy.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

4-12

cL is out there, somewhere.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo needs to play DE the entire game he is not a SSL he is a DE, we need to stop thinking we can switch people to new positions.

Posted by: Flounder21

I 100% agree with you. only one problem, who would play SSL?

Posted by: NFeKPo | September 14, 2009 4:29 PM

All I saw him was playing was DE. I saw Horton playing SAM.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Given the obvious lack of edge pressure, why not periodically switch to a 3-4?

Haynes, Golston/Griffin, and Griffin on the line. Orakpo, Rocky, London, and Carter at backers. Thoughts?

Posted by: ksquare | September 14, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

I 100% agree with you. only one problem, who would play SSL?

Posted by: NFeKPo

Dont's sleep on Chris Wilson.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

smh.. lol

It's like some people haven't the slightest damn idea how the game is played.

If anyone is implying that Haynesworth wasn't the s*** yesterday, you're... hell, I don't know. You're just you're...

Don't see how anyone can watch that game and blame the putrid running game entirely on Portis. On run downs the o-line got MAULED.

"Everyone can say what they want about easy schedule but as far as I can tell we are going to win any shootouts this year"

Posted by: BenchCampbell


Like that is a good thing? Going back and forth?

Not every team is built like the Saints and Patriots where their offenses can score at will. Know why? Because they're not too many QBs like Brees and Brady.

Simple as that. And to expect the 'skins to do it is just EA Sports/Madden wishful thinking nonsense.

I'll admit, I have major concerns with Campbell. I don't think he's has to be a Brees or Brady, but he has to be solid consistently, which he hasn't been.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Well NO, **NOT EXACTLY**, the coaches in INDY found Haynesworth ill suited to the disciplined approach to lane stuffing required of tackles sooooo ... that's right ding, ding, ding, ding dude they moved him to END!

Posted by: periculum

Haynesworth never played for Indy.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz


LMAO! lol.... Don't know why that was funny, but it was... lol...

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

> play-calling---50%: JZ-40%; GB-10% for def. alignments/schemes.
> JC--15%
> secondary performance---25% Coverage + tackling issues
> O-line performance 10%
> other 10%

Posted by: will_ga | September 14, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Put me down for wanting to see Orakpo playing defensive end EVERY down and starting Chris Wilson at SLB, or SSL, or SSI, or whatever you all are calling the LOLB position today.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

I was going to do some mild trash talking about my fantasy team (the one that auto-drafted Adrian Peterson for me) and our success in the opening week, but I can't even muster the energy for that.

It only took a few minutes of yesterday's game to suck all the excitement out of me. We waited nine months for this?

Hulk sad.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 14, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Re: McNAbb's Injury.....

That wasn't a bad hit. Take your panties off ladies....They're all in a bunch....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Rack at DE.

I second the motion.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

"Something tells me RedDMV will not be attending the Jason Reid appreciation banquet that Nate has in the works."

Posted by: Chia_Pet


I knew nothing of such a planned engagement.

I'll be there if it's open to the public.

With a f'n Marcus Mason jersey and a hat that says: ROCK SUCKS

With a Portis t-shirt underneath.


From what I've been reading it seems the general consensus is that Zorn's play-calling is craptastic.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

I'll admit, I have major concerns with Campbell. I don't think he's has to be a Brees or Brady, but he has to be solid consistently, which he hasn't been.

Posted by: RedDMV

I think Zorn should just tell the kid to go apes**t passing against the Rams and see what happens. He needs shot of confidence. If we play to run up the score instead of playing not to lose, maybe JC17 won't play like tight sphincter doosh. If he throws 4 picks and fumbles twice, well, he makes the personnel move easy.

BTW, Red, where is DT11 on offense? I can't criticize DT11 for not getting a shot on the field. I didn't see him in very many sets. If he's active, he needs to get on the field. If they can't use him, deactivate him, but don't use him like a potted plant.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

From what I've been reading it seems the general consensus is that Zorn's play-calling is craptastic.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Yea. The part that bothers me most is that Zorn never seems to admit that play calling was an issue.

Zorn always puts it on the players and execution and none on the coaching.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 14, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

What positives can you take from the game?

(not fantasy football, but the Redskins vs. Giants.)

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Giants offense was 0 for 3 in Red Zone Efficiency.

So do not tell me big Al had no impact. He single-handedly stuffed Jacobs on the 4th and 1 play to start the 2nd quarter. Who could have done that last year?

Believe me the Giants offensive line was tested yesterday.

Posted by: elfreako | September 14, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

This Redskin defense doesn't give up many points, but you can't have the other team racking up first downs like we've seen. The offense can't get on the field in that situation. It feels like when they get out there, they HAVE to move the ball and score because they'll only get 4 possessions a half.

The offense needs improvement, but they also need more possessions. 50 plays doesn't get it done.

Coach B needs to press with his corners. If that means moving a safety back, so be it. You just cannot concede 8-10 yard hooks and ins and not expect to pay for it.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | September 14, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Here is what they should do.

Let Andre Carter play and Orakpo play DE's on passing downs, bring wilson into the game as a stand up blitzer coming from either edge.

Imagine wislon, orakpo, and Carter all rushing the passer on the same play.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | September 14, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Don't understand people being disappointed in Haynesworth. Not only did he stop Jacobs twice on that goal line stand in the 2nd quarter, but also helped stone him on the opening drive when they were inside the 5-yard line. On the sack/strip by Carter, you'll notice that Haynesworth collapsed the pocket which caused Eli to step up and ultimately get sacked....not to mention Big Al was double teamed on every play.

A guy like Haynesworth is only going to be in on 50-60% of the defensive snaps and the Skins have quality backups like Golston and Montgomery to step in when he needs a rest...not to mention the Skins defense was on the field virtually the entire 1st half and Haynesworth like most big guys got warn down.

IMO, it's a little early to be judging his impact until the players around him like Carter, Orakpo, and Griffin start to make plays when they are being blocked one on one. The Giants O-Line played very well in pass protection and were able to block our front 4 with no problems on pass plays. The Skins were counting on generating pressure without blitzes and it didn't happen yesterday.

Posted by: wizfan89 | September 14, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Or you could have Carter and Jarmon play DE, and Have Orakpo and Wilson play blitzing linebackers that get to free lance and pick their lanes.

That would be some pash rush

Posted by: GreatOne1 | September 14, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Still think Albert might have been not 100% from being sick last week. he missed several practices. Even in my younger days ... it'd take a while before I'd have all my energy back after getting sick. I think we saw Albert at about 90%

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Whatever you do, GreatOne, don't question Blache on the lack of a pass rush.

Eli picked his spots just as I thought he would. Any hopes for a full speed, blindside hit failed to materialize.

Eli Manning is a good QB, can sense the pressure around him, and is quick in his decision making process.

Sacking the QB also requires you have good coverage in the secondary, which we don't seem to have.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

Rack at DE.
I second the motion.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009

They'll run to his side and mow him down. Just as they did in college. As it is he may have been a bit overwhelmed. Fletcher, Rocky and most all the d-line had more tackles. They are going to target him until he proves he can handle tackles coming right at him.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Who is actually calling the plays this year? Is it still Zorn? If so, couldn't play-calling duties be given over to Sherman Smith...?

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | September 14, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Don't see how anyone can watch that game and blame the putrid running game entirely on Portis. On run downs the o-line got MAULED.

Or the whole game on Campbell. He is making what amounts to minimum wage for the QB position. While Portis is making the most for his position. Based on that who do you think should be putting up the big numbers, making the big plays, leading the team out of the 'doldrums'? The $$$ say Portis not Campbell.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,

Orakpo is a beast.

Dude is very, very, very strong.

He's lacking in experience is all.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse


Kenbeatrizz, I was curious about Devin too, but I was more concerned with Kelly. Kelly was the darling of the preseason (a lot of hype, a lot of optimism) and caught I think ONE pass yesterday.

Where the hell was Kells?


Yea. The part that bothers me most is that Zorn never seems to admit that play calling was an issue.

Zorn always puts it on the players and execution and none on the coaching.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8

Going into halftime, or coming from it, Pam Oliver stated that Zorn said the defense needs to play better.

Which was true, but at that point the only TD scored was some trick bs. I mean, put A LITTLE on YOUR play-calling and YOUR scheme, Zorn.

Zorn = dóuchebag

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Positives: London Fletcher, Rocky McIntosh, Lorenzo Alexander, Reed Doughty... I think I was happy every time I saw those dudes involved in a play. ARE was a positive except for his first touch, but I was so mad about that first touch that I couldn't enjoy anything he did the rest of the game.

I saw some positive plays from Jason Campbell and a couple godawful ones, and while I'm still seeing him as a glass half full, I'm no longer confident he's going to turn the corner as a Redskin.

My knee jerk reaction is that Zorn and Campbell are going bye-bye after this season, and the delightful rebuilding process will begin again, just in time for the uncapped year.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 14, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,

Wrong again.

Not always a correlation between pay scale and performance.

Look at Wall Street.

CP is doing the best he can running behind an offensive line that produces no surge and opens up only sliver thin lanes for him to exploit.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

not sure if its up here yet, but appears the iggles did add garcia

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4472548

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

If you consider that he's in his first year as a full time starter and had to open against the Giants D, I think that Heyer did a pretty good job. He needs to improve his run blocking in particular but he's young and works hard.

Biggest areas of concern this week in practice I hope are pass defense, run blocking, and Zorn working with JC on situational strategy. His recognition of down-distance and ability to step up in the pocket must be corrected.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: will_ga | September 14, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Bet Mcnabb just loves seeing Jeffy back on his sidelines again.

Posted by: will_ga | September 14, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Reed Doughty needs to start.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Zorn, please practice this mantra while breathing deeply in and out....

I will not call run on 2nd and 10
I will not call run on 3rd and 10

I will not call run on 2nd and 9
I will not call run on 3rd and 9

I will not call run on 2nd and 8
I will not call run on 3rd and 8

I may call run on 2nd and 7 only in the 2nd half

I will not call run on 3rd and 7

I will not call run, period, until the passing game works

I will not call runs until the passing game works

I would rather have three passes and punt than three runs and punt

I will use pass to set up the run

Use passing game to open up the running game

My running game sucks even more than my passing game.

It is better to throw an interception 40 yards down field than have 3 runs and out

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV,

You may not like Jim Zorn as a coach, and you're entitled to your opinion.

but to call him a D-bag?

Whateves!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

widely scattered thunder storms in FL

true meaning - is it's raining at my work and at my house and most points in between the two to make my drive home as sjking as possible

Posted by: noonefromtampa | September 14, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

I can't watch Jason Campbell "lead" this team. He is eating away at my soul. After his fumble, where he had a beautiful pocket to step into and didn't, I felt like I had been eaten by a pack of wild hyenas.

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

anyone think that on the INT to Moss that Moss was interfered with. I know the DB has a right to the ball but he knocked Moss out of the way.

I though that was PI all the way

Posted by: noonefromtampa | September 14, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

I like coach Zorn and I hope he succeeds here, but he needs help.

He needs a jolt to get him his confidence back. If he continues to call plays like Gibbs 2.0, he'll be fired by Thanksgiving.

I think if you are at the game on Sunday and he starts calling runs, the stadium needs to start booing to send a wake up call.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

I'm late to the party, so I'm sure most of this has been said.

The Skins lost yesterday to a far superior team, plain and simple. Go position by position and tell me which Skins starter you wouldn't trade for a Giants starter. Not many, right?

How about coaches? NY's or ours?

Who's fault it this? Dan Snyder, plain and simple.

One other thing. If we don't kick the snot out of the Rams next week, if we don't handle them and send them packing like the Seahawks did, it's going to be a very long season.

It's not that the Skins are terrible, they're not. It's just that they're not all that good.

Posted by: RedskinWillie | September 14, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

I can't watch Jason Campbell "lead" this team. He is eating away at my soul. After his fumble, where he had a beautiful pocket to step into and didn't, I felt like I had been eaten by a pack of wild hyenas.

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

While I am still a JC supporter, this is my vote for POD (Post of the Day). Captivating stuff nixx

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

"Or the whole game on Campbell. He is making what amounts to minimum wage for the QB position. While Portis is making the most for his position. Based on that who do you think should be putting up the big numbers, making the big plays, leading the team out of the 'doldrums'? The $$$ say Portis not Campbell."

Posted by: periculum


You're looking at it through some business s***.

While football in a whole is indeed a business, on the field it comes down to scheme and talent. In live action, while actually on the field money and contracts mean s***. The players are just trying not to get killed out there, blindsided and whatnot.

All that business junk is for tape and stats, which are viewed Tuesday through Friday.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

on the MNF, FF stuff ... in the Peeps league, South Hill Skulls and Alex 35332's will be fighting it out. SHS is up 8 points with Lee Evans going tonight, while Alex has Fred Jackson going for him.

Boston East Coast Shaft trails Future Winners by a mere 4. But its not looking good for a comeback. The Shaft has Wes Welker, but Future Winners has Welker's QB, guy named Brady

In another TBD battle, the Dunsmore's of Houston are battling each other, with the Jackalopes 30 points over the Buffaloes. The Buffaloes (ironically) have no Bills playing tonight. But he does have Randy Moss, LaDanian and McFadden. The Jackalopes counter with the Pats 'D' and Terrell Owens. The ESPN guide predicts a tie.

Nate, The Fins and Noonefromtampa all seem a lock to win their games -- the latter having defeating yours truly.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

One other thing. If we don't kick the snot out of the Rams next week, if we don't handle them and send them packing like the Seahawks did, it's going to be a very long season.

Posted by: RedskinWillie | September 14, 2009 5:53 PM

----------

The bar has been set.

How badly do we need to beat the Rams in order for you to be satisfied?

52-0?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

JC is not "the" problem, he is "a" problem, but the playcalling is "the" problem. No doubt.

I really haven't seen any other team in the NFL that voluntarily throws away downs. It used to be Joe Gibbs who was a master of wasting plays, now it's Zorn. It worked for Gibbs because the persistent running was eventually successful with the personnel we had. Wit hthis group, you need to think "let's open it up, it is not working"

Coach Zorn, please let JC throw and if he loses the game by interceptions, so be it. If you stick to run on 3rd and 9, it means you have already forfeited the game, so you might as well open it up and let interceptions lose it for you

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Willie,
I agree with you except I would take the word "far" out of your first sentence.

(but really, as a fan, that just makes it worse)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I also blame world hunger and the North Korean situation on Jason Campbell and his passivity.

Make a definitive decision and GO! Show some heart. Play with fire. YOU'RE KILLING ME JC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Chia, I know Zorn's your boy.

But no disrespect, yeah, you read it right RE: Zorn

It's been well documented how I can come to this conclusion.

All are valid points as well, and before you say it, they aren't just made by me either.

Instead of d-bag, I'll call him a bama, which is basically the same thing.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse


P A S S T H E B A L L

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

YOU CAN ALWAYS RUN LATER
PASS NOW

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

By inference, if Coach Jim Zen has the Giant's roster, then he still stinks it up as a head coach?

I guess we have no way of knowing, as we have only Redskins on our roster.

The man is doing the best he can. The Giants are the football equivalent of a .45 caliber. The Redskins are a .22

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Chia, I don't need 52-0. I'd be thrilled with 27-10, the Rams TD comin' in garbage time like Cooley's yesterday.

Stumped, my man, it was great to see you and Lil' Ben. OK, I'll take the word "far" out of my analysis, but you know I'm not that "far" off, don't you?

Posted by: RedskinWillie | September 14, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

how many active players can you have on Sunday? I'm not understanding why Monty or Mitchell had to be inactive. Thanks in advance for the knowledge.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

OK Red,

Call Jim Zen what you want.

Lord knows I do.

No slack to give the man, none at all?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

The man is doing the best he can. The Giants are the football equivalent of a .45 caliber. The Redskins are a .22

Posted by: Chia_Pet

Albert Haynesworth is a bazooka.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

I said it last year and the year before that...as long as Jason Campbell is our QB
we will not win. He's a nice guy but he's a bad quarterback. He plays scared all the time. ARGHHHHHH!!!!!

Posted by: LAskinfan | September 14, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

I said it last year and the year before that...as long as Jason Campbell is our QB
we will not win. He's a nice guy but he's a bad quarterback. He plays scared all the time. ARGHHHHHH!!!!!

Posted by: LAskinfan

HERE, HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone have BenchCampbell EMAIL ADD?

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Chia-pet,

You are wrong regarding coaching. Redskins have managed to bring in talent and coach'em down, or out, or whatever.

The coach should lead the team to victory, not avoid losing. We have had way too many conservative coaches here. The is a way to call plays to maximize your resources. Calling runs for 1 yard gain never sparks your team up. It shows weakness to the opponent.

JC will do better with more passes called not with more runs

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Hey LASkinsfan:
Are you in L.A? I'm in Studio City. What up?

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Superior says it all. Skins were beaten by a better team.

The Giants have their weaknesses too though, it's just that yesterday even our strengths looked like weaknesses and our weaknesses looked like, well, weaknesses.

Ben believed in the on-sides kick. At that point, I wished I still had it in me.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 6:10 PM | Report abuse

Yes 4-12?

I am fine with Bama tag on Zorn. He'd be great as the local "Young Life" coordinator leading prayer circles before the PSATs, but head coach in the NFL.....well he leaves me a bit cold.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

All that business junk is for tape and stats, which are viewed Tuesday through Friday.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009

I sincerely doubt that the Redskins players see so altruistically Red. If a player is making a whole heck of a lot more than most players at his position in the league? To say they don't and it doesn't matter is naive. Portis makes a lot. He opens his mouth a lot. And so a lot is expected or at least should be by players and fans.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

lol @ cL

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Instead of d-bag, I'll call him a bama, which is basically the same thing.,/i>

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009

Nah, he's 'west coast'. So you should call him an Okie or a Fresnite. Same thing.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Disrespecting bloggers abound.

I *heart* Jim Zen.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

My knee jerk reaction is that Zorn and Campbell are going bye-bye after this season, and the delightful rebuilding process will begin again, just in time for the uncapped year.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 14, 2009

Sooner than that. My prediction: 3rd or 4th game.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Dumb question for ya cL...
In the Pick 'em League, do we use the line at kickoff, or do we use the line as it was when we locked the game? Both lines for tonite have changed.

Posted by: 4-12 | September 14, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

Yes 4-12?

I am fine with Bama tag on Zorn. He'd be great as the local "Young Life" coordinator leading prayer circles before the PSATs, but head coach in the NFL.....well he leaves me a bit cold.

Posted by: chrislarry

GOSH!

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Draft a top CB #1 in the next draft. Sign an elite FA kicker. Draft two T with the #2 and #4 picks. Trade all other picks if necessary to secure the CB. Resolve CAMPBELL and ZORN in 2011 unless a coach and elite Q-back can be signed after this season is over. In that case, draft a running back #1 in '11.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

Going into halftime, or coming from it, Pam Oliver stated that Zorn said the defense needs to play better.

Which was true, but at that point the only TD scored was some trick bs. I mean, put A LITTLE on YOUR play-calling and YOUR scheme, Zorn.

Zorn = dóuchebag
Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Yup. Going back to last season I've yet to see him say "my fault".

If you want credit for the wins you have to share blame for the losses.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 14, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

3 or 4th game for which, peri?

One? Both?

Posted by: RedskinWillie | September 14, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Skins are goin to win their next 3, 4 of the next 5, and finish 10-6. Get ready to eat some words in a couple months, Negative Nancies.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

'SKINS should scout ERIC WARD U of R Q-back. He's way under the radar, but a solid player.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

A guy like Haynesworth is only going to be in on 50-60% of the defensive snaps and the Skins have quality backups like Golston and Montgomery to step in when he needs a rest...not to mention the Skins defense was on the field virtually the entire 1st half and Haynesworth like most big guys got warn down.

IMO, it's a little early to be judging his impact until the players around him like Carter, Orakpo, and Griffin start to make plays when they are being blocked one on one.

Posted by: wizfan89
______________________

This is on the money.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

"Or the whole game on Campbell. He is making what amounts to minimum wage for the QB position. While Portis is making the most for his position. Based on that who do you think should be putting up the big numbers, making the big plays, leading the team out of the 'doldrums'? The $$$ say Portis not Campbell."

Posted by: periculum

Shocker. Periculum bashing Portis.

Portis isn't a magician, he can't call the plays, block, hand off the ball, and then run. He is only 1 man, he is part of the team.

Right now other teams game plan is stop Portis and make anyone else beat you. How is it Portis' fault when other players don't execute?

If you want to say the team hasn't done a good job protecting their investment in Portis I might agree with you.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 14, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

We can be negative about the Skins, LMG, cuz even if yer right about 10-6, they're goin' nowhere from there. If they were to somehow make that playoffs, and I agree it could be done, they're still a first round casualty.
Unless.... they turn out to be this year's edition of the Cardinals.

Oh god, I'm back into the Koolaid again.

Help me cL. I need clarity.

Posted by: RedskinWillie | September 14, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

The bar has been set.

How badly do we need to beat the Rams in order for you to be satisfied?

52-0?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 5:56 PM |
--------------------------------------

The Seahags beat them 28-0.

The question is, do we feel we're better than the Seahags, or should we be doing as many on here have with the Giants, and just roll over and say, "well, they're a better team than we are."

I tell ya, the lack of self-confidence from the head coach and QB is bad enough, but when it starts to affect the fan base.... Yikes.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Give a guy a woeful roster with the dysfunctional F.O that drafts WR-TE-WR and trades away draft picks for the likes of Jason Taylor and then run that guy out of town the 3rd or 4th game of his 2nd season.

Jeeesh!

What about global warming? Is that Jim Zen's fault too? The national deficit? Run away costs in healthcare? The prevalence of STD's in today's youth?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

4-12...it locks at the line you made the pick on....I think. I have to investigate.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

We have more talent than half the teams in the NFL, I'm not saying Zorn should be fired but he has talent.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 14, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

http://twitter.com/account/profile_image/FITZjr?hreflang=en

I need a Redskin version of this avatar.

Posted by: will_ga | September 14, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

MrRedskin21,

I've said twice before, what counts the most is how the team reacts to the loss.

I wish the Skins were a better team than the Giants yesterday, but sadly they were not.

I won't ever stop rooting for the Redskins, but I won't pretend that the Skins should have won that game.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Portis isn't a magician, he can't call the plays, block, hand off the ball, and then run. He is only 1 man, he is part of the team.

Well no I wouldn't say that. Given the guy's speed you would think he would be more effective than Betts coming out of the backfield. (yes ala JOHN FRIGGIN' RIGGINS HOF known for devastating screen pass receptions) This is after all a west coast offense?

And so gee I wonder why Mr. Portis is so reluctant? Is it that he may desire to pad those gaudy numbers? This I know, Riggins "unretired" to win. He didn't care about numbers. All he cared about was not losing anymore. Let me see that in Portis and I will happily change my mind and eat crow. But ya know I don't see it and I rather doubt that I ever will.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Flounder,

Yes we have some talent, but not enough.

I'll admit Zen could do a better job of coaching the talent we do have: Laron "Step Too Late" Landry, for instance.

Someone needs to take him out to the shed for a good talking to.

Talent is wasted on that kid. What an underachiever!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Portis makes more than Riggins ever did. He make more than Campbell ever will. He makes more than Adrian Peterson and Brian Westrbrook. A lot more.

Portis, more than anyone else should be doing something to prove he deserves that paycheck. And that doesn't mean accumulating yardage on the ground sans TDs and first downs. It means winning. Playoffs, Maybe a superbowl.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Skins are goin to win their next 3, 4 of the next 5, and finish 10-6. Get ready to eat some words in a couple months, Negative Nancies.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG
____________________________

Uh yeah, I've already seen a few people here talk about how much we'll smoke the Rams by... Say what?

I wouldn't assume anything at this point. We've got a lot of talent, and on paper we should win and win comfortably. But in the NFL, you're only as strong as your weakest link - the coaching staffs are all great at exploiting weaknesses. So if you have an area of your team/game that is truly incompetent, that can make all else irrelevant. And our playcalling yesterday was truly incompetent. All I want from the playcalling (and JC) is basic competence - that'll allow this team to win many games, on the strength of the D.

PS I was happily surprised to see the O-line perform competently yesterday... against arguably the top D-line.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Maybe it was the media spin on the Haynesworth coverage... but I hardly heard Orakpo's name yesterday. At least Big Al was in on plays. Orakpo? Not so much. A little disappointing.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,

How thick are you?

Dense as a rock?

Offensive line play is SUPER critical to a running back's success.

And if your pay equals performance equation is correct, well... it's not, so never mind.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,

How thick are you?

Dense as a rock?

Offensive line play is SUPER critical to a running back's success.

And if your pay equals performance across the time space continuum in a perfect world equation is correct, well... it's not, so never mind.

Enough with the non sensical comparisons, dude.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

I tell ya, the lack of self-confidence from the head coach and QB is bad enough, but when it starts to affect the fan base..Posted by: MrRedskin21

What have you seen in the last 5 years that would give you confidence that the Skins are more than an average team?

Posted by: RedskinWillie | September 14, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Portis makes more than Riggins ever did. He make more than Campbell ever will. He makes more than Adrian Peterson and Brian Westrbrook. A lot more.

Portis, more than anyone else should be doing something to prove he deserves that paycheck. And that doesn't mean accumulating yardage on the ground sans TDs and first downs. It means winning. Playoffs, Maybe a superbowl.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

I forgot Riggo is your idol. That doesn't mean you have to be bitter towards the guy about to pass him and become the best running back in redskins history. Riggo was running behind a legendary O-line and Portis is still about to pass him.

As far as compensation 1. Of course Portis makes more than Riggo, different era. 2. Peterson is on his rookie contract, he will be paid more than Portis once that is up. Westbrook has never single handedly put his team in playoffs or won playoff games so I don't see why he is even brought up.

Just admit that you personally don't like Clinton Portis. Never have Never will.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 14, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

I swear to god, I'd rather see Todd Collins play right now. That's how low I've sunk.

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

What have you seen in the last 5 years that would give you confidence that the Skins are more than an average team?

Posted by: RedskinWillie | September 14, 2009 6:50 PM

The Skins swept the Iggles and beat the NFC's eventual champion Az Cards. Zorn was a rookie coach with a rep for coaching up QBs. The Skins QB has a lot of physical tools and is getting his first dose of continuity under the aforementioned coach.

There are reasons to be optimistic that this team is above average. A win yesterday would have gone a long way towards justifying that optimism... so for now, it's optimism delayed.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Zorn really is a d-bag.

After watching the way he gave Sonny curt answers and refused to even look at him while doing so in the post-game locker room, I lost a lot of respect for him.

Yes, it's an emotional game, and yes I understand he was frustrated, but Jurgensen isn't the guy to take it out on.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

After having time to digest yesterday's game, here's my take:

1) JC is not a franchise QB...you can talk all you want about years in the system, protection, playcalling, playmakers, etc. He looks scared and confused when things don't go well. It's telling that no one wanted him when we shopped him...and I have been the eternal JC apologist.

2) Portis hurts us more than he helps...let me splain...Portis is nowhere near the back he used to be. That breakaway run was a TD three years ago. But as an organization we have coddled him and pacified him. We've turned a 5'10" guy into a power back, and refuse to have anyone push him for a starting spot.

3) I was very disappointed in the secondary.

4) I don't know why people are down on Stephon Heyer. I thought he played well.

5) I may be in the minority, but I'm not convinced Zorn wouldn't be a better coach with a different QB.

6) Albert Haynesworth is a force (when on the friggin field FATBOY!)

7) I don't get the feeling this team is totally behind JC or JZ. Did you see the body language yesterday?

8) I know it's one game and it would be different if we had different problems. We have the same problems...points.

9) Let's see how JC and JZ react

Posted by: rickyroge | September 14, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

So what %'s would you give to what causes for the loss yesterday?

> play-calling 65
> JC 10
> secondary performance 15
> O-line performance 5
> other 5

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | September 14, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

JC had a mediocre games yesterday, primarily due to turnovers. His passing was fairly accurate.

The biggest thing I notice is he gets a huge amount of blame for losses, and very little credit for wins. He's like the anti-Cutler.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Give a guy a woeful roster with the dysfunctional F.O that drafts WR-TE-WR and trades away draft picks for the likes of Jason Taylor and then run that guy out of town the 3rd or 4th game of his 2nd season.

Jeeesh!

What about global warming? Is that Jim Zen's fault too? The national deficit? Run away costs in healthcare? The prevalence of STD's in today's youth?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 6:29 PM | > NO , BUT RUNNING ON FIRST DOWN EVERY TIME IS !

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | September 14, 2009 7:08 PM | Report abuse

ThrowItToMyTeam, maybe the playcalling isn't entirely Zorn's fault. (Conspiracy theory percolating in brain.)
Remember this from last year?

Portis was almost derisive when asked if teams have figured out how to defend Zorn's offense after the team's hot start.
"We got a genius for a head coach, I don't know, so I'm sure he's on top of things," Portis said. "He's got everything figured out. All I can do is when he calls the plays is to try and execute to the best of my ability."
Portis also implied that Zorn's offense might be too complex.
"We got 25 protections, so maybe that's why the o-line's sometime confused," Portis said. "Maybe that's why I don't understand what's going on — since I don't understand what's going on."


...and we all know Portis is good buddies with Snyder. So is Snyder influencing playcalling? Hmmmmmmm....

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

I think the Redskins running game is not very good and that's why their quarterback could not depend on the running game to get him out of troubles and Clinton Portis could not get any decent push going forward. He has no power left and I think the team will not do well with him being the running back this year.

Posted by: 4425 | September 14, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Competent play-calling yesterday would've given the mediocre but sufficient JC the ability to score enough points and win the game. The Ginas were never put off-balance by our play selection, allowing them to tee off. And now I'm tee'd off.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse


I said it last year and the year before that...as long as Jason Campbell is our QB
we will not win. He's a nice guy but he's a bad quarterback. He plays scared all the time. ARGHHHHHH!!!!!

Posted by: LAskinfan

HERE, HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: nixx46

Fools. Jason Campbell had a higher passer rating than Eli Manning. Look it up.

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 14, 2009 7:28 PM | Report abuse

Giants go up 17-0 in the first half and Brandon Jacobs ends up with only 65-70 yards?

Without Haynesworth that would not have been possible.

Goal line stand on 4th down to keep us in the game?

Haynesworth lays out to stop 'em.

Guy can play and did what he had to do.

Posted by: saltine182 | September 14, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Fools. Jason Campbell had a higher passer rating than Eli Manning. Look it up.

Posted by: all_star_0013

It's not about stats. JC doesn't have "it". That intangible thing you need to be a great QB.

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Saltine, you old cracker, you nailed it re: Haynesworth.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 7:34 PM | Report abuse

Please stop using the QB rating to compare Eli Manning and Jason Campbell!

Eli Manning is an above average QB, but he took that next step. People questioned his leadership. He's not a fire and brimstone guy, but he makes plays when he has to.

We keep bringing up excuses. JC needs to just play. He thinks too much!

Posted by: rickyroge | September 14, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Fools. Jason Campbell had a higher passer rating than Eli Manning. Look it up.

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 14, 2009 7:28 PM

I rather have a lower passing rating and a WIN!!! He holds on to the ball too long, fumble. Too afraid to take a shot deep. Running game sucks also.

Posted by: TheJury | September 14, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Just admit that you personally don't like Clinton Portis. Never have Never will.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 14, 2009

Well actually NO. Like Gale Sayers I think the best all-time (and non-HOF) running back is former NFL MVP Larry Brown. Look at his small line built to pass block for Jurgenson. Small and nimble. He still made things happen. He didn't make all the yards Portis made as he suffered a career ending knee injury. He did carry his team on his back to a superbowl.

As far as Portis. Let him catch a few more of those 16 yard screen passes, well more than a few. Take a few to the house. Then watch his yardage grow when he does run the ball. IN other words make Betts unnecessary on third down. And make his line look better. And then I will think better of him.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Fools. Jason Campbell had a higher passer rating than Eli Manning. Look it up.

Posted by: all_star_0013

It's not about stats. JC doesn't have "it". That intangible thing you need to be a great QB.

Posted by: nixx46

Bet you were in the same group who said repeatedly that Eli Manning didn't have "it." Then he won a Super Bowl...

Posted by: all_star_0013 | September 14, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

We keep bringing up excuses. Portis needs to just play and make those first downs. He thinks and talks too much!

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

It's not about stats. JC doesn't have "it". That intangible thing you need to be a great QB.

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009 7:33 PM

In other words, you just don't like him.
Did Sonny Jergenson have "it"? (He never won a playoff game)
Did Mark Rypien have "it"? (He was criticized severely before getting enough talent around to win a SB)
How about Dan Marino? (No SB)
How about Jay Cutler? ('nuff said)
How about Brad Johnson? (SB after leaving Skins)

JC17 has everything he needs to be a very successful QB in the NFL. And my money is still on him having a breakout year this year.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Fools. Jason Campbell had a higher passer rating than Eli Manning. Look it up.

Posted by: all_star_0013

another worthless stat being thrown about. How about the only stat that matters in football, W or L?

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | September 14, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

Competent play-calling yesterday would've given the mediocre but sufficient JC the ability to score enough points and win the game. The Ginas were never put off-balance by our play selection, allowing them to tee off. And now I'm tee'd off.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Well put. By the way, the Bills (which I always refer to as the Skins of the AFC) just scored a TD while running a no-huddle offense. Zorn might consider doing this witchcraft..

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 7:41 PM | Report abuse

So what %'s would you give to what causes for the loss yesterday?

> play-calling 65
> JC 10
> secondary performance 15
> O-line performance 5
> other 5

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | September 14, 2009 7:01 PM |

Dude. What game was you watching?

mistake 1: Three whiffs on NYG WR who scores TD -- points to NYG = 7

mistake 2: Campbell fails to move up in pocket, is stripped and NYG D scores TD -- points to NYG = 7

mistake 3: Haynesworth offside penalty, 50 yd unmakeable FG becomes makeable 45 yd -- points to NYG = 3

7 + 7 + 3 = 17. 17 = 74% of NYG points.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | September 14, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Well put. By the way, the Bills (which I always refer to as the Skins of the AFC) just scored a TD while running a no-huddle offense. Zorn might consider doing this witchcraft ...

Note Buffalo Bills: youngest most inexperienced offensive line. Do they know something we don't?

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Time to move on to the next game. I had them at 0-1 anyway. They should win their next 5 games. Rams, Lions, Bucs, Pathers and Chiefs. These are all teams with bigger problems than the Skins. We have better talent and lets put it to work now.

Posted by: TheJury | September 14, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Is it me or does Mike Tirico really suck at play by play? He is likable enough and his voice quality is good, but he is always wrong w/ game details.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Fools. Jason Campbell had a higher passer rating than Eli Manning. Look it up.

Posted by: all_star_0013

It's not about stats. JC doesn't have "it". That intangible thing you need to be a great QB.

Posted by: nixx46

Or even to be an above-mediocre QB. I just want reasonable clock speed and reasonable pocket awareness. He doesn't have either, so he's just mediocre. Which actually will be good enough to win (although I want more when we can get it), if all else is at least mediocre (O-line?) to strong (D-line?). But again, the playcalling was not even mediocre yesterday, so we could not possibly win.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 7:46 PM | Report abuse

At some point JC has to be alone with himself and look himself in the mirror and decide who he's gonna be.

Eli Manning's defining moment came on the David Tyree play.

When will JC's come?

Posted by: rickyroge | September 14, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Does any one have the no huddle offense's e-mail address?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

Fools. Jason Campbell had a higher passer rating than Eli Manning. Look it up.

Posted by: all_star_0013

This is the dumbest comment in the history of mankind. JC is a nice guy and a good back up QB, but he doesn't think or react quick enough to be an elite QB. And Zorn, a former quick, smart QB, knows it, but he has been saddled with JC to run an offense that he doesn't have the mental tools to run.

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

At some point JC has to be alone with himself and look himself in the mirror and decide who he's gonna be.

Eli Manning's defining moment came on the David Tyree play.

When will JC's come?

Posted by: rickyroge
________________________

When he's cut/traded, maybe. For some people, of course, the lightbulb never goes on. He may well have reached his celing, a la the Peter Principle.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Who is the most successful Skins starting QB over the past 15 years? Who had "it"? I'll provide a list so you can mull it over while you imagine acquiring the next "great" Skins QB to replace the one we have:

Heath Shuler
John Friez
Gus Frerotte
Jeff Hostetler
Trent Green
Brad Johnson
Jeff George
Tony Banks
Shane Matthews
Patrick Ramsey
Danny Wuerfiel
Tim Hasselback
Mark Brunell
Todd Collins
Jason Campbell


Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

The refs look like Candy Stripers in those throwbacks in NE. Somebody should have just said 'no'.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

ceiling

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

After one game we have a chance to evaluate the "Haynesworth Effect".

He definitelly bolstered the DL against the run, diminishing the impact Brandon Jacobs had on the game. Did not see a lot of pocket pressure on passing downs, which was one thing that AH was supposed to generate. There were times when Manning had a lot of time to find his target. Don't know if AH wasn't in on those plays because he was gassed or it was the scheme Blache was calling. Even AH is going to be a nonfactor if you only rush 4 DL and the O is keeping extra blockers back. Also, it is going to take a game or two for him to get his stamina back. He could stand to lose a few lbs as well. All things considered, having him is definitely a plus and it could be more of a plus as the season progresses.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | September 14, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

I was at the game on Sunday and sat in the lower level on the 50 yd line...you can see a lot of football in person that does not show up on the TV coverage.

My two cents:

1) The Giants are a very good football team. The Redskins have a way to go before they are near that level.

2) Jason Campbell is not a good NFL quarterback...you can watch a guy play and see if he has 'it'. Plain and simple, JC does not have 'it'. He lacks the mental domination that a top shelf QB needs...you can't teach that and after 5yrs it is apparent he is not going to learn it.

3) Jim Zorn is one of the most boring limited play allers in the NFL. This may have to do with a total lack of confidence in JC but apart from the random gimmick play, there is nothing creative here. At least 1/2 dozen times Antonio Pierce knew what and where the upcoming play was...he was able to tell everyone on the defense where to look - even those of us in the stands could see what he was calling for and he was right every time. Suprise - the Skins went no where on every one of those plays.

4) Devin Thomas is useless (sorry talent_evaluator). He simply is not an NFL caliber player...he brings nothing to the team. We would have been better off using his roster spot on Jeff Garcia - the eagles now have 4 QB better than our starter.

5) Hall is a mediocre corner...not a franchise level player like he is being paid as....ownership was obviously overwhelmed by a db who could actually catch the ball.
This team will once again finish very close to .500 and be a non player in the post season. Get used to it - there is nothing on the horizon to suggest this will change.

Shanahan in '10 and 3-5 years to undo this mess (unless Snyder/Cerrato gets in his way). Someone wake me up in 2014.

Posted by: marksmen | September 14, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

JC is a nice guy and a good back up QB, but he doesn't think or react quick enough to be an elite QB. And Zorn, a former quick, smart QB, knows it, but he has been saddled with JC to run an offense that he doesn't have the mental tools to run.

Posted by: nixx46
___________________

This is on the money. And by the way, with a mediocre O-line, our QB has to be even quicker at thinking & reacting, and with even better pocket instincts/movement (think Rothlisberger), than if we had a stronger line.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

This is the dumbest comment in the history of mankind. JC is a nice guy and a good back up QB, but he doesn't think or react quick enough to be an elite QB. And Zorn, a former quick, smart QB, knows it, but he has been saddled with JC to run an offense that he doesn't have the mental tools to run.

Posted by: nixx46 | September 14, 2009

NO, actually your comment is the most inane, ridiculously silly comment in the history of Homer Simpson. Especially given that the Eagles (as predicted) just resigned Jeff Garcia!!! Duh, who do you think starts week 3? Garcia or Vick? Doh.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

I was at the game on Sunday and sat in the lower level on the 50 yd line...you can see a lot of football in person that does not show up on the TV coverage.

My two cents:

1) The Giants are a very good football team. The Redskins have a way to go before they are near that level.

2) Jason Campbell is not a good NFL quarterback...you can watch a guy play and see if he has 'it'. Plain and simple, JC does not have 'it'. He lacks the mental domination that a top shelf QB needs...you can't teach that and after 5yrs it is apparent he is not going to learn it.

3) Jim Zorn is one of the most boring limited play allers in the NFL. This may have to do with a total lack of confidence in JC but apart from the random gimmick play, there is nothing creative here. At least 1/2 dozen times Antonio Pierce knew what and where the upcoming play was...he was able to tell everyone on the defense where to look - even those of us in the stands could see what he was calling for and he was right every time. Suprise - the Skins went no where on every one of those plays.

4) Devin Thomas is useless (sorry talent_evaluator). He simply is not an NFL caliber player...he brings nothing to the team. We would have been better off using his roster spot on Jeff Garcia - the eagles now have 4 QB better than our starter.

5) Hall is a mediocre corner...not a franchise level player like he is being paid as....ownership was obviously overwhelmed by a db who could actually catch the ball.

6) Haynesworth may be big but he is out of shape...do we only have to pay him 50 mil if he only plays 1/2 the time?


This team will once again finish very close to .500 and be a non player in the post season. Get used to it - there is nothing on the horizon to suggest this will change.

Shanahan in '10 and 3-5 years to undo this mess (unless Snyder/Cerrato gets in his way). Someone wake me up in 2014.

Posted by: marksmen | September 14, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Zorn continually calls out his players to the media. At the half, he said the D needs to play better. At his presser today he said that the corners can't give that big of a cushion (although this is true, both statements are calling out Blache to the media).

When has Zorn ever called out himself for a loss? Zorn is a bama for all of the above reasons.

This team is seldom if ever prepared to play regardless of the opponent. There is a lack of fire from his players. If DT, MK and FD and Rinehart are not ready to play in their second year, then this is also on the coach. Zorn made a statement that last year he was teaching his coaches as much as the players and that he was the only one that really understood his offense.

What this is telling me is that he in incompetent to lead the Skins. He is not the leader he wants to be.

Being incompetent is worse than being a bama IMO. Unfortunately Zorn appears to be both.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

This is on the money. And by the way, with a mediocre O-line, our QB has to be even quicker at thinking & reacting, and with even better pocket

No, its not mediocre its poor. Watch the Bills with the youngest, most inexperienced starting line in the NFL. Against? Their division rivals the Patriots, a superbowl contender like the Giants.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

but "stupidest comment in the history of mankind" - that's a shade harsh - maybe "stupidest post of the day", if you must.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 8:07 PM | Report abuse

Let's see out of that list of QBs...

(1) Brad Johnson - accomplished the most as Redskins QB
(2) Trent Green had a decent year
(3) Brunell had a stretch of 8 good games for Redskins ....but was awful otherwise
(4) Todd Collins played well in the playoff drive...but then self destructed in a winnable playoff game
(5) Campbell ---- so average that its sickening. When its an awful team, he will play bad enough for Redskins to lose. When its a good opponent, he will play well enough for Redskins to lose. Just no killer instinct

Posted by: mmz114 | September 14, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

curzon, while I don't agree with your ultimate conclusion, (I'd like to think Zorn is just damn stubborn) everything you say is right on the mark.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

mmz114, for the sake of argument, I won't dispute your QB rankings. We can both agree nearly none of them had much success in a Skins uniform.

So what makes people think wasting more high draft picks or trading for yet another QB to add to that list of 15 will yield different results? Could QB stability actually be part of the problem? Just, is it possible?


Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 8:21 PM | Report abuse

"The coaching staff chose to have rookie wide receiver Marko Mitchell active in Week 1, and it came down to a decision between Mitchell and Montgomery, Coach Jim Zorn said."

"...between Mitchell and Montegomery..."

Wow!

And, of course, we saw Mitchell lining up all over the field in four wide sets while a rested Haynesworth dominated.

Didn't we??

(INSERT sarcasm)

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 14, 2009 8:24 PM | Report abuse

I guess no one told the Bills they were not supposed to have a chance of winning this game...

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Agreed Moe....gotta have big Monty active.....especially if Marko is going to be held out anyway....

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

"Running game sucks also."


Saying the running game sucks is an understatement.

But this is why those of us who ride the "Hope the Redskins Open-up the Offense Express" post--we want skins' fans to undertsand that the NFL is a passing league.

The age of the great running back clocking 20-25 carries a game is over.

And in the redskin's case, the highest paid player is a running back who's best play--the stretch--requires speed he doesn't have anymore.

In today's NFL, the run keeps the defense honest in between creative passing calls and pinpoint downfields hurls that flip the field.

Let's hope Zorn puts the 'triplets' on the field and throws 35-45 times against the raams this weekend.

Otherwise, the Express will ramble on looking for more converts to modern-style passing NFL offense.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 14, 2009 8:32 PM | Report abuse

chrislarry

"....gotta have big Monty active....."


Funny thing is, Antonio Dixon gets cut by the skins, but plays for the iggles while A Montegomery, makes the team, and sits.

And doncha think Chase Daniels is in a film room happily slurpin' up knowledge from D Brees that Campbell could never impart?


Posted by: MistaMoe | September 14, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Alan4:

MARK RYPIEN, oh,crap you said the last 15. Uh, JOE THEISMANN, BILLY KILMER, SONNY JURGENSEN, SAMMY BAUGH?

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Disagree on the running game sjking at this point. The ginas came in with the intent of not letting the Skins rush and daring JC to win this game. That's why I don't understand why we did not pass more.

Over the next few weeks we will find out how good or bad our running game is.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

ONE Game - That's all it was yesterday and while the Skins largely looked lethargic and not in the game, they have the same record as last year at this time, having lost to the Giants last year in the opener in a game that was similar. If anything, the gameplan was similar but there are a few things that should be adjusted. First, the bubble screen worked against the Giants in December 2005 but has not worked on them since. This holdover play from the Gibbs years should be shelved. Second, the conservative gameplan especially not throwing out of the end zone after stuffing the Giants on 4th & 1 at the 3 has got to go. If you are worried that you may give up a turnover and a score in your own end zone, realize that that could happen anywhere on the field as it happened later in the quarter when Campbell was stripped and the ball was taken back 37 yards for a TD. I would have rather had Campbell sprint out and throw across the field than 3 straight running plays that netted 2 yards. At least try something. Third, AH has been taking a lot of heat for his performance yesterday. How about going after the other "playmakers" on the field that didn't take advantage of their single teaming since AH was being doubled on most plays? Let's leave for once the contract stuff alone. Ofcourse that clown Rodney Harrison on SNF had to take a jab at AH but it was Coach Dungy who correctly pointed out that AH was making plays and was effective despite getting double teamed. Lets not forget that the Giants have an OL that we as Skins fans would love to have. They have one of the best in the NFL. If you didn't see the game, you would think that AH spent most of game catching his breath. How much of that reporting is just targeting the size of his contract? This is a team game and AH is just one piece of 11 on the field. The other guys are expected to bring their game up and I honestly didn't see that. Fourth, The tackling was bad with the exception of LF and the body language was worse. Hall has got to play better than that. Guys have to tackle, that is the name of the game. If you are a corner, you have to tackle and it wouldn't hurt to play with some level of emotion out there. If Hall didn't like the way he played, look at the film and it's right there. He was soft presnap, during the play and after the play.

Good thing is that all of this is correctable. I would expect the team to be a little more involved next week and a little less tentative. The playcalling has got to be aggressive and not just to Moss. I personally have had it with the handoffs to Portis when the other team has eight in the box and the play just gets back to the line if that. Unleash it already. Throw to open up the running game.

Posted by: JWPinCHI | September 14, 2009 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Trent Green had "it". Hated to see the fiasco that caused him to move on...

Posted by: edvar | September 14, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Was it me, or did it look like Portis lacked the speed to bounce an inside run outside?

Posted by: edvar | September 14, 2009 8:48 PM | Report abuse

JWPinCHI,

No one on this blog is trying to read a novel.

Short and sweet or not at all.

I did skip to your last sentence, about throwing to open up the running game, and that might work on Madden, but this here is no video game.

plus we don't have the requisite pass attack to make that work.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Look! I'm not going to over react. Just as last year, don't go crazy over 6-2. We played a good football team that has played together for multiple years. Our passing game was fine, however, our play calling was suspect at best. I don't think we threw on 1st more than once if at all in the 2nd half. Regardless of Zorn's belief in Soups, Campbell is part of Zorn's legacy in Washington. He better figure that out. They could not stop our pass game, but stifled our run.... what gave Zorn the thought that we could continue to run, when we never did after the 1st one of the game? That is what is most perplexing to me!!!

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Chia pets are known to have a very narrow field of vision, thus making it difficult for them to read large swathes of text.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Our passing game was fine...

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 8:55 PM

----------

It was?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Yesterday was the 1st time that I really noticed CP not being able to make quick cuts or turns.....

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Hey Clegg,

DId you happen to notice that our offensive line did nothing to help Portis, or am I the only one?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:02 PM | Report abuse

Our passing game was fine...

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 8:55 PM
________________________

By Special Olympics standards?

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 14, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Just like "Jaws" just said on MNF, if you are going to bring the pressure, you can't leave the DB's 10 yds off the ball....... well guess what, that's Greg Blache defense. That's why we were #4 last year, "Bend but don't Break". No risk D rarely scores......

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

7) I don't get the feeling this team is totally behind JC or JZ. Did you see the body language yesterday?
-----

I'm with you on this. Ms. Dorf and I have always given Eli a hard time because it looks like he just flat out doesn't enjoy playing football. I paused the DVR last night a few times to capture his facial expressions.

But one of the biggest disappointments last night was seeing JC's body language. Like he wasn't upset for making bad plays or mismanaging the clock or wasn't getting on his guys for not doing their parts. I thought JC was going to take more of a leadership role of his offense. Looking at him, he seemed like an island.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

I just watched the Patriots throw on 4th and 2, wow blasphemy!

Maybe Zorn and Co. need to watch some NFL football and move out of 1960's playcalling....

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Good observation, Dorf

Not only did JC never seem comfortable under center, but he was drooling. breathing with his mouth wide open again.

Gaper...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

65% play calling offensive plays and defensive. First off, if the offense keeps moving the ball down field and scores, the Giants do not get the ball 2nd defensive coach owned up to calling the wrong coverage on the TD from the 33. points don't make up % unless your doing math

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | September 14, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, OK, peaceful!

That fake field goal was like so 1960's.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Our QB is a mouth breather? I thought Gus and Heath were bad... they were never mouth breathers.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 9:11 PM | Report abuse

So what %'s would you give to what causes for the loss yesterday?

> play-calling 65
> JC 10
> secondary performance 15
> O-line performance 5
> other 5

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | September 14, 2009 7:01 PM |

Dude. What game was you watching?

mistake 1: Three whiffs on NYG WR who scores TD -- points to NYG = 7

mistake 2: Campbell fails to move up in pocket, is stripped and NYG D scores TD -- points to NYG = 7

mistake 3: Haynesworth offside penalty, 50 yd unmakeable FG becomes makeable 45 yd -- points to NYG = 3

7 + 7 + 3 = 17. 17 = 74% of NYG points.

Posted by: TalkToTheHand | September 14

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | September 14, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

And in the redskin's case, the highest paid player is a running back who's best play--the stretch--requires speed he doesn't have anymore. --mistamoe

Yep, BENCH PORTIS ... unless he is going to go out into the flat, catch passes and make something happen like Westbrook. Not sure if his speed is gone of if its just motivation? Maybe some of both. Either way something has to change ... because with this OL they have to throw.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

I'm not totally blaming the OL for anything yesterday, overall a decent game for them. Not many teams are going to run against that D. My comment was to Portis and his ability to cutback...it was disturbing. However, someone said throwing can't set up the run and I beg to differ. Look at the team playing tonight.
How many 3 step drops did JC have yesterday?

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Our QB is a mouth breather?

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 9:11 PM

----------

Yes, Dorf, he is.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Look at the team playing tonight.

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:13 PM

----------

You mean the Patriots?

Yeah I'm watching the game.

Your point?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,

Clarify your position:

Is it "Cut Portis," or is it "Trade Portis," or is it "Bench Portis."

I can't tell any more.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Chas,

Our passing game was effective. We moved the ball when we threw. Zorn kept trying to establish the run 1st. Normally, I'm all for that, but not in NY against that D. It was very predictable.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

Our passing game was effective.

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:19 PM

----------

It was?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

I think Redskins treat downs without the necessary respect, period!

I don't know why, but maybe a curse or something. We see teams playing against us, fight to their last breath to get a score, etc. With the Redskins, it's like, well, let's run here because if we pass, it may appear that we are not a balanced offense (that is the only explanation I can come up with short pure stupidity)

I hate to say it, but this is a problem with coaching, and nothing more. The QB is OK, the O-line is OK, the D-line is great, the secondary is OK, Receivers are OK, so we should be at least OK. But somehow we enter most games just not to lose. Even with some wins last year, the game ended just before the other team had a chance to come back. Even OK teams can dominate from time to time.

The Redskins just don't call plays to win, to dominate. They play scared form the kick off. That is coaching for you

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 9:24 PM | Report abuse

The QB is OK, the O-line is OK, the D-line is great, the secondary is OK, Receivers are OK, so we should be at least OK.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 9:24 PM

----------

You're wrong on all accounts, but hey, OK!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

The point is they pass to set up the run. Most West Coast type offenses do that.
Campbell was the 10th rated passer in the league and only 2 of the Top 10 rated passers lost yesterday. Our passing game was effective and it will be moving fwd. Do you get that point?

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Something about Oklahoma?

I don't think we have any players from there.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

peaceful2008

"Maybe Zorn and Co. need to watch some NFL football and move out of 1960's playcalling...."


Sounds like you want to ride the "Hope the Redskins Open-up the Offense Express".

Climb aboard and find a seat.

As was amble down the BWI we'll wonder how a team that drafts two wideouts and a tight end somehow can't find a way to get them the ball.

I mean, why draft guys only to let them collect paychecks and inspire unfulfilled hope?

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 14, 2009 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Coach Zorn, we love you as a person, but please, throw away your offensive mindset, whatever it is, it doesn't work here. Maybe you have the most successful offensive theory in your head, let's keep it for another time, another place.

Watch the Patriots, the Cowboys, the Eagle, the (enter a few other teams here) They play to win. they throw if they cannot run, they run if they cannot throw, then they throw again.........

Whatever you think is going to work here, won't. Why don't you reverse engineer success!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Clegg,

They have a QB. His name is Brady, Tom Brady.

They have a reciever. His name is Moss, Randy Moss.

So yes, they can pass to set up the run all night long.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

I truely believe Zorn is the worst hire that Snyder made behind Spurrier. Campbell is just a DUMB QB with who doesn't really know how to play the position.

Joe K.

Posted by: jkertulis1 | September 14, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

What about the Eagles? They kicked many "D"'s for many years w/ out any WR's. It can be done, and it will be done if we are going to win. JC is a pretty accurate QB. He had time to throw yesterday. He made the mistake on the fumble=recovery=TD, but otherwise not a bad game. Wasn't pleased w/ the pick, but should have been interference on Webster. Ran right through Moss to get the pick.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

So you don't think the Redskins have underperforming talent?

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Is it the "prevent" defense that is making it look this way? Why doesn't Zorn let Campbell use he hurry up no huddle more? It seemed effective, no? Seems like when the Skins need to move the ball with urgency they can do it, but any other time the play calling is bland and predictable and we don't get points.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

@ peaceful, and clegg and periculum:

What is the highest level of education you boys have completed?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

periculum

"...because with this OL they have to throw."


No.

They have to throw as most teams figure the skins to be a 'run 1st' team.

The redskins early season is stocked with enough chump-type teams that working out the kinks against them makes since.

The other reason throwing 1st makes sense is the personnel investment made (Kelly, Thomas, Mitchell, Davis) suggests that you use what you bought.

The team has drafted pass catchers--throw them the ball.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 14, 2009 9:36 PM | Report abuse

You all make no sense.

Peaceful, WTF are you talking about?

You're all over the place.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

Maybe we should have promoted Alex Van Pelt from QB coach to HC.....

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

So lemme ask all you JC detractors, particularly those saying he should be benched/jettisoned, if you'd rather that we'd been able to get Jay Cutler. Both have coincidentally started 37 games; one is 17-20, one is 16-21. THen again, Cutler did look pretty good last night.

I wonder if Chicago is yelling for him to be benched after one game?

Give our JC time. Some of you are saying "he's a 5th yr guy/4th yr starter"...no, not really. Yes, this is his 5th yr in the league. But he's started less than 2.5 full seasons. And equally importantly, he's just now in the second year of the same offense. I really think all this back and forth (mostly back) needs to be reserved until we're at least 5-6 games into the season. I know it won't because that's not how a blog works, but try to give the guy a chance.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Where is Sherman Smith and exactly what is his role with this team yeah i know he is the "OC" but Zorn calls the plays so what exactly does Smith do? HBO(help a brutha out!) and are you peeps watching the NE-Buff.game?

Posted by: dargregmag | September 14, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one watching this MNF game? Could be big upset...

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Moe,

You think Coach Zen is not throwing the ball in the direction of the young "talent" just to spite us fans?

We can't get the passing game together, for a number of reasons.

Put all three of these players on the field at once, throw them the damn ball on every down, and we still lose the game.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:41 PM | Report abuse

You need a QB to throw! The coach is very underqualified to be a head coach. Get a real head coach such as a Mike S. he will find a good QB and would shape up that OL that was picked up in some nursing home.

Joe K.

Posted by: jkertulis1 | September 14, 2009 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Pats sure look like they need Seymour tonight.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 9:43 PM | Report abuse

F Zorn and JC....Gotta start proving something on the field. Right now their resumes are barely Starbucks ready....

The Refs in this game blow.

Patriots Defense is not god. Trent Edwards showing how a young QB can ball.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 9:44 PM | Report abuse

and Springs still owns Tear-ell.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, watching the game, and apparently we need to do what the Patriots do and all will be well in Washington.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

JC was in the top 1/3 of QB passers in Week 1 against a top 5 D. What part of that don't you understand? Yes, he could have played better. Zorn left us out to dry with running on 1st and 2nd down and trying to throw on 3rd. It was very predicatable. However, if he stays in the Top 3rd in QB ratings this year, I will be happy.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Buf looks really good. And so far holding NE to 13 points? Love it when the other part of the evil empire goes down.

Of course, after Denver yesterday, it's not over til it's over.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 9:46 PM | Report abuse

cL,

Notice the O Line of the Bills?

They're pushing people out of the way.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Notorious_LMG,

I appreciate you defending JC. I've never been really polarized on the issue and want to see what JC can do, but you can't deny what you saw yesterday...

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Gawd dam... QB ratings are like Cialis for you foolz...me I prefer chubbing up for "W"s

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 9:47 PM | Report abuse

In T.O's eyes, the only reason the bills are winning is becuase he caught 2 passes. LOL!

Joe K.

Posted by: jkertulis1 | September 14, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

JC was in the top 1/3 of QB passers in Week 1 against a top 5 D. What part of that don't you understand?

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:45 PM Clegg,

----------

Take your stats to someone who thinks they mean anything.

Not to me.

W-L

Nuff said.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm convinced that the people hyping JC's QB rating only watched the Skins' final meaningless drive.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Chia, your love affair for Zorn is making you blind to his many faults.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

ChrisLarry,

I agree w/ QB ratings, but you can't argue when 80% of the top 10 rated QB ratings WON their game. These ratings must mean something.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

I agree! the big W is what matters most not the stats. Big Ben throws more INT's that any QB in the leage but the offense scores and the team wins.

Joe K.

Posted by: jkertulis1 | September 14, 2009 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Clegg, QB ratings have their place, but I would rather have JC lost the QB rating yesterday and won the game.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Is it me or are the network field mics better this year. i feel like I hear much more on the field stuff...audibles, signal calls....pretty cool.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

this is the tone set at the top - The Orb, now playing on Zorn's iTunes.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | September 14, 2009 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Curz,

My love affair with Coach Zen is not making me blind to his faults.

The man has coached the first game of his second season, and he's not holding a particularly strong hand with the roster Vinny gave him.

Just sayin'

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

These ratings must mean something.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:50 PM

Yes, it means they threw TDs when it mattered.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

Stats are how people play... You are a moron. That's what we discuss here, individual players performances. WINS AND LOSSES, I know is what matters. Don't insult my intelligence. I'm not happy w/ the loss, but Zorn didn't help us at all.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:57 PM | Report abuse

damn...

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Don't insult my intelligence.

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 9:57 PM

----------

Not sure how that's even possible.


Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Unbelieveable.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

F the PATS!!!!!!!!! What an idiot that KR is!!!!! FUDGE!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

I'm watching the game and with 4 minutes left, NE down 11 and I'm thinking -- it isn't over. And you know what -- it isn't.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

Have we discussed Chucky's presence on MNF? I like what I see so far... Love Jaws, not a fan of Mike Torrico, but Chucky brings it all together.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Anyway, here's to finding a "rhythm" in the next three weeks.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | September 14, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

CL, that's what happens to bad teams.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

You love Jaws?????wow mega gag.

Said

FUDGE THE SAME FING PLAY!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

f the f-in pats

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Clegg, Chia, Periculum...

What if it isn't Zorn, JC or Portis.

What if the blame rested solely on the shoulders of...


Wait for it...


Ethan Albright!!!

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Chia, yesterday's game was a continuation of last years bad play calling by Zorn. 1st and goal and three straight runs. Skins have three tall WR, Davis and Cooley and yet no pass plays?

Scripting a trick play as your second play in the 1st game of the season and stating that it was well set up?

Three straight running plays from inside his own five yard line against a tuff D that had the box stacked.

Come on...

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Wow!

Nice throw.

That TD will help Brady's QB rating, which matters sooooo much to Bill Belichick, I'm sure.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Yo BrooklynSkin...what bar you watch at? I am usually at 200 5th (name is the address), but thinking of switching to O'Connors now that they have package.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Jaws is no Al Michaels... but he gets the job done

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Dorf, I am just as quick to admit that JC has to make some significant improvements in his decision making, needs to be more decisive. I just don't understand why so many regulars think he has to go after one game. It's not as if he stunk last year. I'd argue he was excellent in the first half when the running game/O-line were clicking, and avg to below avg when the run sputtered. What QB in the league would thrive in that spot? Few to none.

I'm not saying it's a lock he's our future franchise QB. But I'm not convinced that he's not, either. To me the jury is definitely still out. I fully expect him to turn it around the next 4 weeks and quiet the peanut gallery...with this schedule, there is no excuse not to be 5-2 or 4-3 at the worst at the bye week...if not, then I will join probably be less fervent in my support but for now, I say go JC

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Curz,

Fine.

Zen's play calling needs some work, alot of work, but WTF do you expect from the man?

Water into wine?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Chia, Clegg...you are both right AND wrong. Zorn and jc both suck......

This game is pissing me of. Lets go Trent!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

CHia,

Since you are so bright... please enlighten me w/ your brilliance. I know you have a "man crush" on Zorn, but who in the nfl calls runs on 1st and 2nd downs and throws on 3rd?

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

Bills should run that play Denver ran at the end of the game yesterday.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 10:08 PM | Report abuse

good one curz...

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Clegg,

Get it right:

I *heart* Jim Zen, the coach of the Washington Redskins.

I think he should be given a fair shake, just as many people have advocated for JC to be given time to develop.

Now bugger off with the homophobic remarks.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 10:10 PM | Report abuse

cant take sack there...

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Chia, I guess where we differ is that I think the Skins have talent that is not being utilized correctly.

JZ needs to put the team in position to win and not be dictated to by the other teams D.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

Notorious_LMG,

To quote Robert the Bruce,

"I saw it in his face on the battlefield and it's tearing me apart."

I don't see his passion. I don't see his leadership. I know machismo isn't everything, but I just don't see it in his eyes.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

How can you not loathe the pats....quintruple UGH.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Good game.

and a good night, gentlemen....

HTTR and HTTB

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

CL, I used to hate Brady but how can you not appreciate excellence.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 10:14 PM | Report abuse

"but who in the nfl calls runs on 1st and 2nd downs and throws on 3rd?"

CLEGG
_______

You mean not every team plays that way?

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Bills are feeling a bit like Florida St. against the U.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

The Bills had that game in the bank.

That moron who returned the kick (and was actually stupid enough to try and fight for an extra yard, fumbling) may have single-handedly ruined Buffalo's season. It can be hard for a young team to recover from a loss like that.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Look, I am a ZORN supporter. The guy had a terrible game yesterday. Plain and simple. 1st and Goal and not 1 throw to the end zone. He was playing scared yesterday. ( As was JC, which I thought he looked like he wanted to cry )
We have to throw the ball more, plain and simple to beat a team like the Giants. The secondary was ripe for the taking.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

LH I loathe the Pats, not really Brady per se....tonight pissed me off though....fumbled kr...my gawd. Truly puke worthy.

I tell you what though, I'd rather have Trent Edwards...that kid balled tonight. Not a great "stats" game...but he left it on the field...

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Did yall see that look in Edwards' eyes? Did ya'll see the playcalling of the
Bills?

Posted by: rickyroge | September 14, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Who is worse to listen to: Aikman & Buck or Mike & Mike?

tough call for me.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Mike and Mike are Satan Spawned

Joe Buck is a clown

Aikman, lord help me, is actually pretty good color guy.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Aikman is,... even when we do something good, he finds the negative... Still pissed about LaVar entering him into "early retirement"...

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 10:22 PM | Report abuse

I should clarify, Aikman is a really good "color" guy unless he's calling a Skins game...

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | September 14, 2009 10:24 PM | Report abuse

OK, my memory is bad sometimes so help me out here. When were those uniforms that the officials are wearing last used.

I can see why they no longer work, but can't remember when they were used.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Tough call indeed curz...

At least we always get Pam Oliver.

Did anyone else see that she looked horrible on Sunday? Hair everywhere, makeup not so tidy. Looks like she just got off the phone with some very bad news.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

I love the people decrying the playcalling. Just because we didn't throw a bunch of bombs doesn't mean they weren't calling plays with deep routes. Defenses can decide to take that away and make you nibble. Also, receivers have to get open.

Posted by: mhaslup | September 14, 2009 10:28 PM | Report abuse

I think they were used in the 60's, before the merger.

Not 100% sure since I didn't start watching the NFL until the late 70's.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 10:29 PM | Report abuse

One thing I think we can say is that, if you had to guess today, we probably just played the most difficult game on our schedule. Given how we play up there, I would rate it slightly more difficult that @Philly and much tougher than @Dallas. @SD might be as tough if not in Week 17.

There is hope yet!

Posted by: mhaslup | September 14, 2009 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Those are AFL ref uniforms. Part of the 50th anniversary of the AFL celebration.

Posted by: mhaslup | September 14, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Chia,

16 years of education after High school, for your info...


(4 yrs college, 4 yrs Med school, 8 years surgical training)

But I am just an amateur football fan. I may not know all the X's and O's but I can see when a team played like scared cats!

Zorn needs to shape up or leave us alone

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

After watching the Bills lose that gut-wrencher, I feel a lot better about the Redskins.

I just say to myself: At least I'm not a Buffalo fan.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

mhaslup, it's not about the bombs. the jints were weak at CB yesterday and Zorn did not take advantage of that. play calling should have been heavy on pass compared to run. That's not going to happen when you run on first and second down against a great DL with the box stacked.

You have to pass to open up room to run in that situation.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

I am not saying Zorn is a bad person, I am just saying he needs help. Someone who cares about him and the Redskins needs to pull him in the office and show him the film! then show him the film of other NFL teams playcalling and try to eliminate bonehead calls.

Or, just take away the playcalling from him if he remains a bonehead (run into walls) WC-f-ing-O

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Dorf, Pam Oliver has fallen off hard.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Thanks MrR21 & mhaslup!

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

After watching the Bills lose that gut-wrencher, I feel a lot better about the Redskins.

I just say to myself: At least I'm not a Buffalo fan.

Mr Redskin21

-----

Yeah but at least you would be broken -hearted yet proud of your team's effort.

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Pam Oliver looks better messier...but I am mad strange...

Peaceful he needs to be a good coach, he doesn't need a hug. Maybe you can send him your copy of The Secret?

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:39 PM | Report abuse

Okay, this is how I see it. everone knows I've been fans of Campbell and Zorn and given them as much slack as anyone. Having said that Zorn is too predictable (with the exception of the fake field goal which was a great call) and Campbell holds the ball way too long. Run, run, pass is predictable. Campbell throw the damn ball already. The d looked a lot like last year. I don't think the push up the middle is the problem. Our other guys just can't beat people 1 on 1. It was pretty obvious that they were killing us throwing over the middle. Laron Landry is way overrated. I've been saying it for a while, dude needs to step it up. And that's how I see it.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 14, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Notorious_LMG,

JC can get it done, he can do enough to win. But JC has had to play with his arms tied behind him, playing in Gibbs/Zorn Runfest!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

Don't disturb mhaslup. He is trying to make sure he can sleep soundly tonight..

"My team is good enough, smart enough and god darnit people like us"

in fact mhaslup, pass the bottle...

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

What if the blame rested solely on the shoulders of... Wait for it ...

Ethan Albright!!!

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009

Nah it can't be? But maybe its:

Christmas at Skins-Park, all over the e-store People are buying just a little bit more So Snidely if you’re still shopping with money to spend How ’bout some OT with blocking to lend?

Christmas at Skins-Park, Christmas at Skins-Park

The mood ring counter is all aglow
When Portis starts his Christmas show
Winos sleep on the hot-air grill
Whilst us Skins fans all take ourr Christmas pill

Winning Elixir, sold out tonight
Those Locker Room tweeters in their usual fright
Cooley's lingerie counter was grab and go
Campbells' bags on overflow

Santa got a dose in San Jose
Come to the Skins-Mart, wants love to stay
I must have died and gone to Heaven
’Cause Hell is Christmas at 5 wins and 11

Root Boy Slim's Ghost

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

Landry missed big time on a few of em yesterday.

Duly noted.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:45 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and is it just me or does it look like Campbell would be a stud if all we did was run 2 minute drill? I said this last year too. The less time he has to think the better he does.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 14, 2009 10:46 PM | Report abuse

Peaceful he needs to be a good coach, he doesn't need a hug. Maybe you can send him your copy of The Secret?

Posted by: chrislarr

-----

Shoot cl, that's a good suggestions. I will send him a copy of the Secret, Thanks

"Coach Zorn practicing his intention: I will call runs on 1st, 2nd and 3rd downs. I picture my team on our own 5 yard line, I will call run,run,run"

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 10:46 PM | Report abuse

Peaceful he needs to be a good coach, he doesn't need a hug. Maybe you can send him your copy of The Secret?

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009

CL you should know better! Esther Hick channeling that dude Abrah-ham in the Secret ... you know that I channel ... wait for it: Priest Holmes ... I could start channeling him now ... muggggahhhhh buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugahhhhhh ahhhhh

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 10:48 PM | Report abuse

just said that scamp... I'm not sure if the ever effective "prevent" defense helps him out, but he did look studly.

Clock management scares me though. Just give him those horse "blinders" and tell him he has 2 minutes to score. See what happens.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Peaceful, I knew you read that siht! your posts smack of that babble! Love it! It takes all kinds....

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Clock management scares me though. Just give him those horse "blinders" and tell him he has 2 minutes to score. See what happens.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:49 PM |

Like I said, less time to think...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 14, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Run, run, pass is predictable. Campbell throw the damn ball already. The d looked a lot like last year.

The money man is Portis. If he doesn't run the guy the owner and his lackey ask why.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 10:52 PM | Report abuse

scamp1975,

I thought Zorn will have better strategy after going through last year, etc. I am not sure why he is so scared. Can someone explain this to me?

Why can't the Redskins play with reckless abandon on defense? Are we overthinking/overstrategizing everything?

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Can someone explain this to me?

Daniel M. Snyder - Owner GM

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

bend don't break

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

If our offense and Zorn had 1/3 a clue, bend don't break wins that game...

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:56 PM | Report abuse

bend don't break

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 10:54 PM

I prefer break their back. Night all...
HTTR

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 14, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Pam Oliver with the sleazy wench look ... love it.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 10:58 PM | Report abuse

OK Insider-insiders,

Let's hope for a metamorphosis by this Sunday. I see Campbell in the pocket, stepping forward, throwing the dammm ball to somebody over and over again. I see, I see I see a touchdown throw in the first quarter no less. I see a pass on 1st down.....I see Redskins defense playing to win

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 10:59 PM | Report abuse

Notorious_LMG,

JC can get it done, he can do enough to win. But JC has had to play with his arms tied behind him, playing in Gibbs/Zorn Runfest!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | September 14, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

I just talked to a buddy whose dad is good friends with the SKins chaplain. He claims that Zorn told the chaplain that JC can only handle about 30% of the playbook. I'm not one to put a lot of stock in third hand information and am still among the minority giving 17 the benefit of the doubt. But IF (big if) that is true, then Houston we have a major problem.

-Captain Obvious

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Oh peri, she looked like someone told her that her parents died...

and the 4th ranked defense isn't enough for you scamp? They made turnovers and held the offense (not on the manningham play though). I think the defense isn't our problem.

Posted by: Dorf | September 14, 2009 11:02 PM | Report abuse

I didn't watch the game - had some kid stuff to do. Steered past the WaPo headlines saying the skins sucked to here - figured that I would get a more balanced view. Seemed like things were going OK, just a couple of miscues, the game was within reach, the usual JC haters, etc.

But just watched the game in its entirety. Wow, just wow. Yes the Giants are good. But we were bad. In particular, I can't believe the 'a couple of plays away from a win' crowd. The Redskins were bad, and meanwhile rest of NFC East is good.

I like Zorn a lot but he looked very bad too. Let's get someone who knows what they are doing to call the plays, please?

Posted by: zornskins2 | September 14, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Every team will be loading the box against the Redskins until they prove they can move the ball through the air consistently. Zorn needs to understand this and use the weapons he has to open up some running lanes.

His philosophy should be to pass, pass, pass and then pass some more. If CP has a problem with that, then bench him. Once teams take the Skins passing game seriously then the running game will be more effective with or without CP.

The scary part is if what N_LGM posted is true. If it is, then what the he11 were they thinking only keeping JC and TC.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

I just talked to a buddy whose dad is good friends with the SKins chaplain. He claims that Zorn told the chaplain that JC can only handle about 30% of the playbook. I'm not one to put a lot of stock in third hand information and am still among the minority giving 17 the benefit of the doubt. But IF (big if) that is true, then Houston we have a major problem.

-Captain Obvious

With gentle remonstrance, reminding Captain Obvious that Mr. Todd Collins, the genius Master's Degree guy, could not handle Zorn's playbook apparently.

Maybe the problem is with Zorn and his gadget plays and inability to put together a good offensive line than it is with JC or anyone else.

As someone so aptly put it on the Nats NJ blog. Winning requires ability as much if not more than attitude. If you don't have ability on your offensive line you aren't going to have an offense no matter how cerebral your playbook.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 11:16 PM | Report abuse

Oh peri, she looked like someone told her that her parents died ...

I didn't watch her Dorf ... I hope that she is okay and that nothing that catastrophic happened to her.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Zorn told the chaplain that JC can only handle about 30% of the playbook.

Wondering how many plays that left-handed scrambling klutz could handle in CA Jurgenson's playbook. Doubt he could manage the look-in pass.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

ChrisLarry;Re:Pam Oliver, Girlfriend has gained some weight you can see it in her face and the fact that the camera rarely pans below her shoulders says it all,still she is always well prepared and informative and has been at it for a minute, and CL didn't your wife give birth? if so it was a girl, how is she doing? hope all is well.

Posted by: dargregmag | September 14, 2009 11:22 PM | Report abuse

dargregmag, yes a girl! 10 months. thx...

and i like them a bit chunky, i said i was mad weird!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 11:25 PM | Report abuse

Everyone keeps calling clock management on the early time outs, but it seemed to me that The Meadowlands was oh, kind of loud there. Not saying that we shouldn't be ready for that, but there were some mitigating circumstances.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse
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I was at the game, it was pretty loud at times but on the timeouts in question it wasnt that bad. Im not on the "I hate JC" bandwagon but Sanchez looked pretty good yesterday.

Prediction on Sundays game against the Rams. JC gets a ball batted and Dockery catches it and tries to run only to fumble for a TD the other way. Skins lose 17-10 (I hope not!!!)

Posted by: murphyz | September 14, 2009 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Everyone keeps calling clock management on the early time outs, but it seemed to me that The Meadowlands was oh, kind of loud there. Not saying that we shouldn't be ready for that, but there were some mitigating circumstances.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse
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I was at the game, it was pretty loud at times but on the timeouts in question it wasnt that bad. Im not on the "I hate JC" bandwagon but Sanchez looked pretty good yesterday.

Prediction on Sundays game against the Rams. JC gets a ball batted and Pete Kendell who signs at 11:59 on Saturday night catches it and tries to run only to fumble for a TD the other way. Skins lose 17-10 (I hope not!!!)

Posted by: murphyz | September 14, 2009 11:33 PM | Report abuse

On a non FB note, it is almost harvest time and those female plants I have are looking sooo sweet!

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 11:48 PM | Report abuse

He played well, but I'm not sure he could hold up doing that all season at his weight.

By Jason Reid | September 14, 2009; 3:41 PM ET

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When has it ever been established that weighing more equates with being able to hold up better over a season?

This is a ridiculous presumption.

Lean muscle mass is where it's at.

If Haynesworth dropped 15 pounds, he would be more effective, not less, and Alexander weighing 30 pounds less will help him, not hurt him.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse
-------------------------------------------
Ummmm, when you weigh 274 lbs and you play with your hand in the dirt going up against 300 lb OLmen who are just as strong if not stronger than you, you are going to get manhandled. Alexander isnt a pass rusher who gets by on his speed, he's a utility guy. When you play in the trenches lean muscle mass is the exception not the rule (see Andre Carter).

Posted by: murphyz | September 14, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

mhaslup, it's not about the bombs. the jints were weak at CB yesterday and Zorn did not take advantage of that. play calling should have been heavy on pass compared to run. That's not going to happen when you run on first and second down against a great DL with the box stacked.

You have to pass to open up room to run in that situation.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

I haven't looked at the count, but I think they were pretty heavy pass-to-run.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 14, 2009 11:55 PM | Report abuse

On a non FB note, it is almost harvest time and those female plants I have are looking sooo sweet!

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 11:48 PM | Report abuse
---------------------------------------------
Best non-redskin post of the season. Hopefully you drafted some heady seeds and not three second round middies who give you a headache when you smoke them.

Posted by: murphyz | September 14, 2009 11:58 PM | Report abuse

this is going to start just like last year. Pathetic loss @Giants (not quite as pathetic as last year) and now 5 cupcakes. We will probably find a way to blow one of these games, but that still leaves us 4-2 headed into the MNF matchup with the Eagles. Will all come down to whether this team is ready to compete in the second half of the season.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 12:35 AM | Report abuse

headed into the MNF matchup with the Eagles. Will all come down to whether this team is ready to compete in the second half of the season.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009

And whether Campbell AND Zorn still hold their current positions ... and haven't been replaced for the 2nd half ... not something I personally desire instead a foreboding of dire possibilities.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 12:40 AM | Report abuse

murphyz, went w/some FAs that pushed the cap limit, but well worth it.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 12:42 AM | Report abuse

Ummmm, when you weigh 274 lbs and you play with your hand in the dirt going up against 300 lb OLmen who are just as strong if not stronger than you, you are going to get manhandled. Alexander isnt a pass rusher who gets by on his speed, he's a utility guy.


Seems like he did this to be invaluable on the special teams. As a back up that would be the best way to make the roster and stay on it.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 12:44 AM | Report abuse

da raiders!

Posted by: chrislarry | September 15, 2009 12:49 AM | Report abuse

headed into the MNF matchup with the Eagles. Will all come down to whether this team is ready to compete in the second half of the season.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009

And whether Campbell AND Zorn still hold their current positions ... and haven't been replaced for the 2nd half ... not something I personally desire instead a foreboding of dire possibilities.

Posted by: periculum | September 15, 2009 12:40 AM | Report abuse

Zorn and Campbell have this year.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 15, 2009 1:15 AM | Report abuse

wow big hit!

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 1:22 AM | Report abuse

nice job raiders!

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 1:23 AM | Report abuse

wow... Raiders... wow.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 15, 2009 1:24 AM | Report abuse

wonder what JZ would have called on 4th and 15 from his own 43?

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 15, 2009 1:25 AM | Report abuse

wow... Chargers... wow.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 15, 2009 1:35 AM | Report abuse

and suddenly the tables turn.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 15, 2009 1:37 AM | Report abuse

Now that vet contracts don't have to be guaranteed, it'll be interesting to see if the Skins bring in any OL, especially T. Because this OL is one modest injury away from being a very mediocre bunch.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 15, 2009 2:46 AM | Report abuse

folks this teams problems runs a lot deeper than not running the defense effectievly or not executing the offense okay,you can blame Jason Cambell all you want or the coach but the bigger problem is that the media is controlling what the redskins are planning to do against their oppponents and what i mean by that is they media is asking about the redskins game plans, that is something that should ne be asking also here is something else as fans we want changes to happen as fast as possible sure we can always blame the owner, but that's a copout also one final thing here the coaches are changing so often to the point where these players aren't takingthe identity of their coach think about this for a minute.

Posted by: rmnkevorkian | September 15, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse

folks this teams problems runs a lot deeper than not running the defense effectievly or not executing the offense okay,you can blame Jason Cambell all you want or the coach but the bigger problem is that the media is controlling what the redskins are planning to do against their oppponents and what i mean by that is they media is asking about the redskins game plans, that is something that should ne be asking also here is something else as fans we want changes to happen as fast as possible sure we can always blame the owner, but that's a copout also one final thing here the coaches are changing so often to the point where these players aren't takingthe identity of their coach think about this for a minute.

Posted by: rmnkevorkian | September 15, 2009 8:06 AM | Report abuse

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