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Monday morning, after the bye

It's time to say goodbye to the bye week and hello to the rest of the season, with just over half of the games on the Redskins' schedule still remaining to be played. Things are just beginning to get interesting in the NFC East, with the Giants plummeting like a stone, the unpredictable Eagles playing well and the Cowboys rising. The Redskins, who have played only two NFC East opponents, return to practice today, preparing for Sunday's game at Atlanta. Among other things, there is an open roster spot, created when the team placed tackle Chris Samuels on the season-ending injured-reserve list.

The Redskins pick up after a 2-5 nightmarish start that included Coach Jim Zorn being stripped of play-calling duties, the loss of right guard Randy Thomas and Samuels to season-ending injuries and the erosion of quarterback Jason Campbell's confidence.

So much happened - and most of it bad for the Redskins - in the first seven weeks of the season, but I was most intrigued by Vinny Cerrato's comments last week. Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, defended the roster he assembled and essentially placed blame for the Redskins' poor performance on Zorn and his assistants, which got me thinking back to 2008 and, among other things, that year's draft.

For reasons I still don't understand, owner Daniel Snyder and Cerrato made the shift to a West Coast offense after Joe Gibbs resigned at the end of the 2007 season. Jason La Canfora and I found the move curious at the time because the Redskins lacked the personnel to run that scheme and Campbell's skills were more suited to a seven-step drop, play-action offense that featured many deep passes and a power running game.

Owner Daniel Snyder and Cerrato blamed former play-caller Al Saunders (he of the infamous 700-page playbook) for the offense's shortcomings in the last two seasons under Gibbs, according to league sources, and scrapped Saunders's attack (Gibbs's watered-down version of it) for an offense Washington simply was not equipped to execute properly without a significant roster overhaul.

On Cerrato's strong recommendation, Snyder hired Zorn first as offensive coordinator and quickly promoted him to head coach. Zorn was a successful quarterbacks coach with the Seattle Seahawks under Mike Holmgren, who learned the West Coast offense from the late Bill Walsh. But regardless of Zorn's knowledge of the offense, the Redskins needed to hit it big with the offensive players they selected in the 2008 draft because the new offense needed a boost.

The Redskins traded out of the first round, sending their picks in the first, third and fifth rounds (Nos. 21, 84 and 154 overall) to the Atlanta Falcons for the Nos. 34 and 48 picks in the second round and a fourth-round pick, the 103rd overall. The Redskins knew they had long-term concerns along the offensive line. They were aware of right tackle Jon Jansen's decline in pass protection and they could have used a young tackle to replace Jansen last season.

With the first-round pick the Falcons received from the Redskins, they drafted tackle Sam Baker from Southern California. Later in the first round, the Houston Texans selected tackle Duane Brown from Virginia Tech with the No. 26 overall pick. Since the 2000 draft, the Redskins have selected just four offensive linemen in the top four rounds and only Samuels (a third pick overall) became a star. Baker and Brown are two-year starters for offenses that have been much more productive than that of the Redskins.

The Redskins needed bigger wide receivers - and more playmakers in general - to have a chance at succeeding immediately in the West Coast offense, so they drafted wide receivers Devin Thomas of Michigan State and Malcolm Kelly of Oklahoma and pass-catching tight end Fred Davis of Southern California with their top three picks. But with their age and injury concerns along the line at that point, it seemed risky for the Redskins not to take a lineman high in the draft. With the No. 96 overall pick in the third round, Washington chose tackle-guard Chad Rinehart from Northern Iowa. The Redskins quickly determined Rinehart was not athletic enough to play tackle in the NFL. After briefly starting this season at right guard in place of the injured Randy Thomas, Rinehart again tumbled down the depth chart.

Some of the league's most successful general managers espouse a "need-specific" draft philosophy based on "system-specific scouting." Cerrato often speaks of taking "the best player available," and often has said he believes trades and free agency are at least equally important as the draft.

And that brings us to the drafting of Thomas, Davis and Kelly. The Redskins for a long time have been eager to acquire big wideouts who possess big-play potential. The buzz before the draft was that Thomas and Davis, although physically gifted, had maturity issues that could impede their development, and Kelly had a serious knee problem that scared away some teams.

"We were not going to jump down a round or two rounds to go get a need," Cerrato said after the first day of the 2008 draft. "We were going to take the best players. So, saying that, Fred Davis was the best player on our board at the time we took him. And after Fred went and a couple of guys went, Malcolm Kelly was the only guy with a first-round grade. He stuck out like a sore thumb. It was an obvious choice for us."

Some teams assigned a medical-reject grade to Kelly because of his knee problem, a high-ranking player-personnel official on another team said recently. The Redskins' medical staff expressed concerns, league sources said, about Kelly's knee, which ruined his rookie season and prompted him to undergo microfracture surgery. Kelly impressed in preseason and was named the starting flanker, but he has struggled with his route running and was demoted to second string in favor of Thomas, who, for the most part, has disappointed because of his poor work ethic and lackadaisical approach toward learning the playbook. Davis also has not demonstrated a command of the playbook and was immature in meetings as a rookie, sources said, but he currently is atop the depth chart with Pro Bowl tight end Chris Cooley sidelined after undergoing foot surgery last week.

The Denver Broncos selected standout wideout-returner Eddie Royal eight spots after the Redskins selected Thomas. The Philadelphia Eagles chose star wideout-punt returner DeSean Jackson one pick after Washington selected Davis. Obviously, Royal and Jackson are not big receivers. They are so incredibly talented, however, they make things happen. The Indianapolis Colts took center-guard Mike Pollak in the second round (59th overall). Pollak has been a two-year starter for one of the league's top offenses.

As for other members of the Redskins' 2008 draft class, safety Chris Horton has been a pleasant surprise for a seventh-round pick. Nickel corner Justin Tryon has shown some encouraging signs recently. But defense has been the Redskins' strength for some time. Washington needed one of the pass catchers to produce consistently from the outset, and that still hasn't happened.

Perhaps Thomas, Davis and Kelly will emerge as forces in the passing game during the remainder of Washington's schedule and Rinehart will improve enough to at least contribute a little to a line considered among the worst in the league.

At any rate, the work resumes today.

Must reading (a Favre-free zone) and watching

  • Memories of Samuels as a freshly drafted left tackle: "... as I followed Samuels, I saw not only a good player but also a compelling and conscientious person. The day before the draft, at the Marriott Marquis Hotel on Broadway, he twice turned away the housekeeper who wanted to make up the room. 'It's OK,'' he said. 'I got it.' He'd already made his bed, tidied the room and straightened up the bathroom, hanging the towels neatly on the rack." (Peter King, in Monday Morning Quarterback at si.com)
  • Why was Fahu Tahi oddly unable to play Sunday? Ask Adrian Peterson. (via Pro Football Talk)
  • What, if anything, should the NFL and the Raiders do about the allegations against Coach Tom Cable? (Join the discussion at The League.)

Must chatting

Cindy Boren will take your Redskins and NFL questions/observations/rants in an 11:30 a.m. chat.

By Jason Reid  |  November 2, 2009; 7:07 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Rabach: the man in the middle
Next: Thomas, Kelly lay it on the line

Comments

no way i'm first

Posted by: TDawg1 | November 2, 2009 7:37 AM | Report abuse

don't believe it for a SECOND.

Posted by: cmecyclist | November 2, 2009 7:38 AM | Report abuse

Medical reject? Impressive! I am not defending the Redskins draft choices, but I still believe that the draft is often a crap shoot. The real flaw seems to lie with the "best player" strategy over need. Would the OL players drafted by Indianapolis, Atlanta and Houston have worked out as well here? Maybe not as starters last year, but it would sure mean a lot now from a depth standpoint. The problem now may come from a lack of picks - how many do the Redskins have this year and where are they? The other magic is figuring out how successful teams find stars in the later rounds and until we get a real GM and better player personnel staff we are likely to see more players like Haynesworth.

Posted by: skipper7 | November 2, 2009 7:43 AM | Report abuse

I'm fully aware that I am not a professional football person and have no idea what I am talking about, but it just seems to me that if you're sitting there in the second round having already drafted a receiver, and the best player, by far, on your board is another receiver, you trade down. This isn't about recognition of talent so much as just good business sense. That pick is too valuable to use on another receiver. They used the "buy a bunch of raffle tickets and increase our odds of hitting" method of drafting and this is where it has got us.

Posted by: themantoyou | November 2, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

November begins what will be a couple of cruel months:

11/8 @ Falcons
11/15 VS Broncos
11/22 @ Cowboys
11/29 @ Eagles
12/6 VS Saints
12/13 @ Raiders
12/21 VS Giants
12/27 VS Cowboys
1/3 @ Chargers


There's only one soft spot in the bunch--the raiders--but it's not all that sofy as they have a decent defense highlighted by a stud corner and safety.

And a number of teams in that bunch--saints, iggles, falcons, broncos, chargers--could wind up in the super bowl.

And we can mock the cowboys, but they score. Romo has been playing quite well so far. The jints may be falling apart, but they do have our number.

And given the way the iggles have re-invented themselves as a scoring machine, no one wants a second look at DeSean Jackson out in the open field.

Increasingly, we have to admit that the mighty redskins have become the soft spot for a lot of other teams.

A lot of redskins fans want change.

I suggest they change the channel over the next coupla months--'cuz that's the only change you're gonna get.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 2, 2009 7:59 AM | Report abuse

moe congrats on the series...all over but the shouting at this point.

what was the point of this post again?? I mean, this is approaching torrence/pierce territory now. Someone fire up the time machine, we'll go back and re-do the whole thing.


my favorite line was this:

"and the erosion of quarterback Jason Campbell's confidence"

are you friggin kidding me?? What is he a 14 year old girl??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse

There has to be a balance on the 'need vs. best available' debate, because you have to be looking for the value of your pick. This is the perennial Sam 'we needed a big man' Bowie vs. Micheal Jordan debate.

So do I disagree with the thought process that brought us Thomas, Kelly, and Davis? No.

But when you say you are going after best available, then you better dang well have a good ranking system, and it appears that Cerrato whiffed on his top 4 picks that year (including Rhinehardt).

So then it becomes a (S)moot point. If you can't scout, then your draft strategy doesn't matter.

That said, in the later rounds you definitely need to be looking for role players. Why draft FBs, TEs, and ANOTHER WR, knowing full well that they probably weren't going to displace anyone on the roster (i.e. improve our roster)?

It doesn't make sense.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | November 2, 2009 8:11 AM | Report abuse

How does the "draft the best player available" strategy work with trading down in a draft? Wouldn't the best player available be obtained for the high pick you have? I understand there is a point system assigned to draft pick position and teams use this to assess trades, but philosophically, doesn't this run against drafting the best player available?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 2, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

For all the RI members who took every opportunity to slam Jason La Canfora last year for his blogs pertaining to the horrific state of Redskins management, you can go ahead a eat a big old plate of crow. Guess he was right after all, wasn't he?

Posted by: jive_turkey | November 2, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

as a loooong-time 'skins fan, i began halloween by trying to carve a redskins pumpkin, and look what happened:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58171957@N00/

sums up my feelings about the once-proud redskins.

Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | November 2, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

For all the RI members who took every opportunity to slam Jason La Canfora last year for his blogs pertaining to the horrific state of Redskins management, you can go ahead a eat a big old plate of crow. Guess he was right after all, wasn't he?

Posted by: jive_turkey | November 2, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Welcome back to the blog, Jasno.

Posted by: TDawg1 | November 2, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

matt, regarding the 'wiff' which you refer to above. I'm just not sure that the coaching staff in place has the ability to provide the opportunity to determine that. Look at Davis, Cooley goes out, and Davis caught the ball pretty well, which make me wonder why this hasn't happened sooner?? Why weren't they using both Cooley, and Davis at the same time?? Move onto Rhino, he plays 2 games, and played well for the most part, but gets pulled because of a shoulder injury, and we haven't heard a peep since?? How about DT and his KR ability?? I mean, he was one of the best at this during his college career, but JZ insists on Rock and his ability to get to the 20. How about the fades in the end zone to Kelly?? What?? You mean, the team is using their 5'10 receiver to throw the fade to, instead of the 6'4 receiver?? What about the slant to Kelly?? What, you mean the team, despite claiming to be a WC offense doesn't throw this?? Kind of makes me wonder if there was someone in charge who would actually put these guys in a position to succeed, what we'd be seeing....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

For all the RI members who took every opportunity to slam Jason La Canfora last year for his blogs pertaining to the horrific state of Redskins management, you can go ahead a eat a big old plate of crow. Guess he was right after all, wasn't he?

Posted by: jive_turkey | November 2, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse


JLC was a Redskins HATER!!! Oh wait...he was right on every single thing he ever wrote.

Posted by: rich20ssu | November 2, 2009 8:26 AM | Report abuse

Yes, Beaner, they're on Bulemia watch for Soup17.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg1,
You are so right on the money, Bean. We don't know what we have and won't know until a coach comes in who is willing to play the youngsters. I hope the team doesn't do anything rash with the young players before the next coach gets to come in and take a look at them.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 2, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

ds, no kidding, can someone please text JC back that he's their BFF, so we can move on...

rsh, I'm not saying that the 2008 draft is a success, and I'm not saying its a bust, because the way these guys have been managed, the way they've used, you can't come to a conclusing either way.

I mean, last year Tryon looked lost, but has taken DRAMATIC steps this year, I believe partly because he's being USED on a regular basis, by coachs, BLACH/GRAY, who aren't in his ear telling him he has to be perfect....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Wow...that remaining schedule is BRUTAL! They could steal one against the Cowboys, but I seriously don't see another winable game on their schedule.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 2, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Why does the Wash. Post have a story about Philly? Do you think anyone would want to read that? NO. It's retarded and I don't care about Philadelphia and their dumb fans and teams. Good for them, almost all their teams won... except the Phillies. =) I can't wait for the Yankees to finish off the Phillies!! Go Yankees!!

Posted by: rachel216 | November 2, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

is this thing on.....hello...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

is this thing on.....hello...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

After a 9 year hiatus, the Yankee luck is back....

Hoping we don't have to endure another 5 year run of 275 foot home runs in Yankee stadium, home runs off cameras, Mariano Rivera strike zones, blow calls in their favor, bloop singles landing in the perfect square foot of outfield, 2-out 2-strike holy rollers....

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 2, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

How does Reid have a job? Why does he rehash the same post every week, over and over again. Same info just pasted into more crappy articles. Does he not have any original thoughts or new stories to work on, every article, blip, story is the same damn thing...should have drafted OL - GEE THANKS Capt. Obvious, Dont understand Cerrato - awesome, 3 WR we drafted suck - thanks again...anything else that you could write about, F'N Seriously d bag.

OK, having said that, who does everyone think we will fill the Samuels spot with, let me guess Alridge who will never get to play...

Mondays suck and so does J. Reid at reporting!

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 2, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

How about news on Blades and Westbrook? ESPN reports they both had knee surgery.

Posted by: daggar | November 2, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Um - maybe the Mayor keeps posting the same shti 'cause the same SJKing problems are STILL THERE!

Every morning I keep seeing the same ugly mug in the mirror, but no matter how much I berate it, it keeps showing me the same thing!

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

kind of agree, I mean, how about some input/insight into who the team might be looking at to bring in, in place of Chris Samuels...why now for a 2008 Draft review....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Yeah the Skins didn't looose this weekend!

Posted by: affirmativeactionpresident | November 2, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

"Guess he (Jason La Canfora) was right after all, wasn't he?"

I never faulted the guy for his observations.

Canfora's final post regarding the redskins' failure to rebuild the offensive line in comparison with what the ravens have done rings true even now that he's gone.

Canfora was a cold, objective reporter.

You can't fault him for that.

The lack of objectivity is what infects the redskins' organization like cancer in a smoker's lung.

I mean, Danny Snyder evaulates his friend Vinny Cerrato, and must decide the guy is his homeboy and, thus, his mistakes forgivable.

Somehow, someone must get in Snyder's ear--past his friend Cerrato-- and remind him that the NFL is a business, and right now, his team is failing where it counts: on the field.

Canfora may have seemed like a hater.

But a hater who rightly points out the team's failings is better than a friend who's a failure.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 2, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Yes the problems are still the same, but there is other crap to report or to discuss. It is not even like it is a different take on the situation or anything, it copy and past from all the other previous post he makes.

What havent we already ground into the dirt on the 2008 Draft issues?? Did you know we had a horrific OL, of course you do and we know who the problem is, but why arent we interviewing Bugel to get his TAKE or Opinion or what they are working on to improve, is it communication, is it they just suck???

All I am saying DikShuttle is that, besides the comments and input of posters, such as you and I, we could just go back and read the previous years post and get the same crap...do you get paid at your job for recycling crap over and over again?

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 2, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Why again did the Skins pick DT11 ahead of DeSean Jackson? Dan Snyder should kick Vinny in the tail every time Jackson makes a play because Vinny said himself that they believed during the draft that Jackson was more NFL ready than both of the receivers they selected.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | November 2, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Hey! Did you read my job description?! I'm still supporting XP/SP2 here! hehehehe.

I'd love some different insight, too. I also miss the personal touch Jasno had w/ the blog. He'd rehash a bunch too, tho. Prolly not as much...

It is true that the lunatics are running the asylum here. When's the next Shabingus?

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

matt, regarding the 'wiff' which you refer to above. I'm just not sure that the coaching staff in place has the ability to provide the opportunity to determine that. Look at Davis, Cooley goes out, and Davis caught the ball pretty well, which make me wonder why this hasn't happened sooner?? Why weren't they using both Cooley, and Davis at the same time?? Move onto Rhino, he plays 2 games, and played well for the most part, but gets pulled because of a shoulder injury, and we haven't heard a peep since?? How about DT and his KR ability?? I mean, he was one of the best at this during his college career, but JZ insists on Rock and his ability to get to the 20. How about the fades in the end zone to Kelly?? What?? You mean, the team is using their 5'10 receiver to throw the fade to, instead of the 6'4 receiver?? What about the slant to Kelly?? What, you mean the team, despite claiming to be a WC offense doesn't throw this?? Kind of makes me wonder if there was someone in charge who would actually put these guys in a position to succeed, what we'd be seeing....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse


I agree 100% Greg. While the whole lack of a plan that started in the front office is the major culprit (ie: hiring JZ as OC before you hire the HC; switching to a WCO when you lack the personnel to do so; deciding that JZ would make a great HC just because noone you wanted would come here and put up with the FO) the whole team is as dysfunctional as it gets. If Snyder wants to really win he needs to get rid of his boy Vinny and hire somebody who knows whats going on instead of someone who knows a little and he can hang out with. All that being said - JZ is not using the talent he has to its potential and he's not a good HC. I feel bad for the guy but in reality this is what we all expected it to be like when they hired him. That good start last year was a surprise but the fresh paint is wearing off of the clunker now and we can all see it for what it is....when will it all end for us?

Posted by: scottmando | November 2, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

My other thought is I would like to see Captain Hefty J. Reid, strap on a helmet and lets try him on OL, looks like a big enough guy!

I would like to know when FO is going to say, ok lost season. Lets try out some of these kids and drop the dead weight we know wont be here, next year. Lets see more of C Wilson, less of Daniels, less of smoot and maybe see what Barnes can do, A LOT LESS RANDle EL and check out M. Mitchell, etc etc down the line. If it really is going to be this bad, lets see what we have and then put together a plan for rebuilding, drafting, Free Agency, trades, etc.

It took Lewis only one game to realize that Campbell could roll out of pocket and get more time, I honestly wonder what Zorn has been doing all season? Maybe Zorn is just a pot head and forgets?

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 2, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

I'm hoping for progress, I really am. I'm hoping that during the bye, JZ, and Sherm got together and broke stuff down, and reviewed film, and JZ is in the mind set of trying to improve/learn from Sherm....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I have nothing positive to say about the present state of the Washington Redskins.

But I do have this to say:

GO YANKS!!!!!

Like I said, I have nothing positive to say about the present state of the Washington Redskins.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 2, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

I agree, Greg, that would make sense; but over the past 18 months, has anything that anyone around the Redskins has done made any sense?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 2, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

In my dreams this weekend, I envisioned Sherm Lewis telling Cerrato, Snyder and Co. this is what is wrong and we should try this...

"DT should be returning punts, KO and playing all game. Oh yeah, I think we got this talented tall fiesty WR on the Practice Squad, I like the kid, lets play him.

MK should be playing all game as well, throw S. Moss in there, lets do some bunches to create separation for the WR, some hard slants, crossing patterns and some long balls with double moves, no pump fakes, cuz JC fumbles too much. Then we are going to use draws and delayed running plays while go back to our traditional run blocking scheme, cuz Portis is not fast enough outside anymore. WE can even roll JC out, cuz he is pretty athletic and our OL sucks - dont forget to say thank you to J. Reid for showing us the light by posting everyday 365 a year, cuz we finally get it."

Instantly the light goes off in Snyder, Cerrato and Zorn's head and they all say, oh this how you use your talent and keep defenses questioning your every move. Zorn then giggles like F. Davis and passes the bong to the FO and says that will never work, cuz I did not stay medium and I did not even realize these guys were on the team, plus Holmgren told me so.

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 2, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

mhartz1 haven't you posted the same complaint a few times?

Posted by: mack1 | November 2, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Why again did the Skins pick DT11 ahead of DeSean Jackson? Dan Snyder should kick Vinny in the tail every time Jackson makes a play because Vinny said himself that they believed during the draft that Jackson was more NFL ready than both of the receivers they selected.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | November 2, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

It's because Devin Thomas is almost as fast and is 4 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. Devin can not only go deep along the sideline like Desean but he can actually catch passes over the middle wihtout being turned into jello. NFL ready only means that Desean is better suited to contribute right away. Devin is seen as having the natural talent to become a dominant WR. The problem with Devin was that he played in a slightly more disciplined than sandlot football system at Michigan State. Devin had to learn all kinds of things when he came into the NFL like blocking, how to get off the LOS, and how to run actual routes. Once Devin gets going he has the ability to become a dominating WR. The thing is that if you read Devin's scouting report it said he would have little to no production his rookie year and should start coming on in his sophmore year. Us Redskins fans don't care though. We want to win now. Who cares about the future. Who cares if we may have one of the best WRs in 2 years from now. More NFL ready is a poor argument. Let's see who has the better overall career.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

walter-in-fallschurch: Great pumpkin. *thumbs up*

Posted by: walkdwalk | November 2, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Mack1 absolutely I have, but everyday the same thing, dont think so...well I will take that back, I have complained about Randle El and J. Reid several times. Deeply sorry for that Mack1, I will curb it next time...what was I thinking, such a hypocrite.

God, J. Reid posts the same crap everyday, jesus there I go again...

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 2, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

A big, hearty, all encompassing effffff you U to Dan Snyder.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 2, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

"Cooley goes out, and Davis caught the ball pretty well, which make me wonder why this hasn't happened sooner?? "

-

Did you see him "trying" to block? Pretty embarrassing....

Posted by: edvar | November 2, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Let's see who has the better overall career.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 9:48 AM

What has DT11 done to give you any confidence that the light is going to turn on for him so that he can do all the things you of which you say he is capable? He was anointed the starter and couldn't hold onto the job against the less fleet of foot Malcolm Kelly.
Good luck to DT11 on having a better career because Jackson has a helluva head start.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | November 2, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

If the Redskins drafted Marcus Colston a couple years ago - you would have never heard of him - just like you will never hear of Marko Mitchell for the next couple years. Same with Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson - if the Skins took them you would still never hear from them. Thomas, Kelly, and Davis - and Marko Mitchell - can only produce if the ball is actually thrown their way. But, it is glaring that their route running is very lazy. Bottom line is they need to play to contribute and to contribute, they need to develop a professional attitude and run professional routes.

Posted by: AsstGM | November 2, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

On September 20, Robert Henson tweets to fans.

On September 21, Dan Snyder should have released him.

On whatever day Jim Zorn is stripped of his play calling responsibilities,

the very next day, Jim Zorn should have resigned.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 2, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Like I was telling my buddie:

BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER-FIRE CERRATO!!!!!

And he said:


BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!
BOYCOTT $NYDER AND HE WILL FIRE CERRATO!!!!

And I said amen baby!!!!

Posted by: hessone | November 2, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

i thought we discussed a year ago that rabach was terrible and needed to be replaced, he was the worst offensive lineman on one of the worst offensive lines last year, now he is one of the best offensive lineman on the worst offensive line in history, this doesnt mean he's better, he's gotten worse.
RABACH NEEDS TO GO
not that he's the only or the biggest problem, but we're cleaning house on offense and rabach is gone

Posted by: retroskins14 | November 2, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

I was listening to Andy Pollin this morning and he was going on about how well the Eagles draft and he used D Jackson as an example. Excuse me, but how many years have the Eagles struck out on WRs in the draft? The one thing I'd give them credit for is that they seem to be embracing the new NFL. With the new rules, speed at the skill position is going to be even more important. The Vikings drafting Harvin is another example. Let's hope this FO is paying attention.

Posted by: TWISI | November 2, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

bean

"I'm hoping for progress, I really am. I'm hoping that during the bye, JZ, and Sherm got together and broke stuff down, and reviewed film, and JZ is in the mind set of trying to improve/learn from Sherm...."


Sometimes you are what you are.

And the Washongton Redskins are not a very good football team or organization.

Sherm could teach Zorn everything he knows, but if the organization doesn't back things up with linemen, speed, and roster depth it means nothing.

What we are are the fans of a dysfunctional team, kinda like a guy in love with a chick who won't act right.

And what that makes us is worst than what the skins are: suckers.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 2, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

ed, right lousy blocker, so don't you think that maybe the head-coach would have seen this, oh, I don't know....ADJUSTED to it?? For the record, I saw Dave Deihl struggle trying to block trent cole yesterday, so there you go....

You MAXIMIZE what your players do well, and you put them in positions to do that on the field. You fail when you ask them to do something they're not good at, and expect a good result to come from it.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

''On the grounds of frustration and irritation with performance, then that's the medicine I [we] are going to take, and I accept that. The goal this year was to rebuild the culture at the Browns. We felt at the end of last year that we lacked any overall philosophy, approach or direction regarding recruiting, drafting, coaching, preparation or training. As a result, each season was feeling like starting over and 4-12 following 10-6 felt painfully not all that surprising. It's been way too long since the Browns have had anything to feel good about or invest in, and it's clear that the doubt and negativity are taking on a life of their own. What I can say is that we, and I, have remained open to new and fresh ideas and thinking and people with passion for the Browns and football experience getting involved and with hope and luck and support, making a difference. We won't become entrenched or stubborn and despite my allergy to be more conspicuous, I do remain eager to seek help and guidance from any and all corners.''

-Randy Lerner

----------

Dan Snyder?

Ahem...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 2, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

twisi

"With the new rules, speed at the skill position is going to be even more important."

Which is why this blogga is so high on drafting CJ Spiller with the 1st round pick.

He returns kicks, catches out of the backfield, and can 'flip the field' with long runs.

Lineman can be had--if you draft them.

Speed must be taken when it comes along.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 2, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

What has DT11 done to give you any confidence that the light is going to turn on for him so that he can do all the things you of which you say he is capable? He was anointed the starter and couldn't hold onto the job against the less fleet of foot Malcolm Kelly.
Good luck to DT11 on having a better career because Jackson has a helluva head start.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | November 2, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

I don't care what he's done. He wasn't supposed to have done anything yet. He's supposed to flash a little this year before becoming good next year. I know we don't care about development but sometimes it takes a little while. Devin has a lot more natural talent. He was lucky enough to be 6-2 215 and run a 4.4 40. He's just bigger and that's something Desean can't make up for. Desean will never be able to go over the middle effectively. All he'll ever be is a sideline threat.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

When it's all said and done, Desean Jackson will have the better career than Devin Thomas.

To say that Devin Thomas has to learn more than Jackson is simply unfair. I highly doubt they just tell Jackson to scatter down the sidelines, turn around, and I'll throw it to you.

Also, I've seen Desean Jackson catch passes over the middle -- seen him make catches in traffic.

Just like how Devin has to learn how to run routes, so does Jackson. Just like Thomas has to learn how to block, so does Jackson.

Devin Thomas having the ideal body of a NFL WR will have ZERO to do with who'll have the better career.

Desean Jackson has things that Devin Thomas doesn't: A desire to become better at his craft, A good head coach, a capable offensive line, an above-average QB.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

retroskins, ain't NO WAY that Rabach is worse than Stephon Heyer. Rabach is at least an effective pass blocker. Heyer isn't effective at squat.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

moe, we've got a guy who returns kicks very well...but we don't put him in that spot...instead we keep putting Rock back there and expecting a different result then starting with 80 yards to go....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

DeSean Jackson's maturity was exemplified by his first NFL TD. Oh, I mean, drop at the 1.
Are we sure that DT's immaturity isn't just that he lacked confidence? That seems to be the swine flu of the team.

Posted by: daggar | November 2, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Which is why this blogga is so high on drafting CJ Spiller with the 1st round pick.

He returns kicks, catches out of the backfield, and can 'flip the field' with long runs.

Lineman can be had--if you draft them.

Speed must be taken when it comes along.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 2, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

The other thing to keep in mind is that if you are running a WCO Spiller is the ideal back for that and the linemen for the WCO can be had in lower rounds becuase they are typically smaller and more athletic therefore more plentiful. If we can get Spiller then we can get possibly Bulaga or Charles Brown as a left tackle in the second round. Selvish Capers may fall to the 4th. We could end up with 2 great WCO tackles and a great WCO RB. If we want to build a power run game then we need to take a dominating force at left tackle like Russell Okung and he will go in the first round. So we have to make up our minds what this team is supposed to be then adjust our draft plan accordingly.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, comparing Jackson to Thomas?

Two talented dudes playing in drastically different worlds.

and talent, in any world, will only get you so far.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 2, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

How do we know that DT returns kicks very well?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 2, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

While our draftpics are admittedly busts, you do have to fault the overall dynamic here as the major contributing factor.

Who are these young-uns to learn from? There's nothing in this organization for them to draw from except history. Everyone does something drastically wrong.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

RE: Devin Thomas

I don't care what he's done. He wasn't supposed to have done anything yet. He's supposed to flash a little this year before becoming good next year."

Couldn't agree less with this statement. Yeah it's good to have patience and blah, blah, blah. But Devin Thomas was drafted in the second round. He plays at a position where they needed help.

Sorry, but Devin Thomas should have contributed A LOT more than he did last year and this year.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

"Owner Daniel Snyder and Cerrato blamed former play-caller Al Saunders (he of the infamous 700-page playbook) for the offense's shortcomings in the last two seasons under Gibbs, according to league sources, and scrapped Saunders's attack (Gibbs's watered-down version of it) for an offense Washington simply was not equipped to execute properly without a significant roster overhaul."

Um, no. That offense thrived when Collins was under center in it. The problem was Campbell -- he has fundamental flaws in his game that would inhibit any offense. Seriously, what offense requires you to lock in on one receiver 90 percent of the time and be unable to read defenses pre-snap? And this notion that JC would thrive in a 7-step-drop and deep ball offense is based on what exactly? Maybe one out of ten of his deep balls is accurate -- the rest float out of bounds.

The offensive line is a terrible, but JC ain't helping matters. The national media realizes it but the Post defends him like crazy. He must be a really charming guy in the locker room.

Posted by: MylesMonroe | November 2, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

How does Reid have a job? Why does he rehash the same post every week, over and over again. Same info just pasted into more crappy articles. Does he not have any original thoughts or new stories to work on, every article, blip, story is the same damn thing...

Posted by: mhartz1 | November 2, 2009 9:13 AM

No offense, but have you seen what the Redskins have been doing the past eight weeks or so? They've taken a certain few draft choices and a certain many free-agent signings and cobbled them together as a team and consistently loses nearly the same way every time.

So when the Redskins lose to the Falcons exactly the way they did to the Giants in week 1, do you want Dr. J to go out there and write about the cow jumping over the moon, whom Vinnie Cerrato has scouted himself and said it would be an excellent addition to an offensive line that blocks for plays called by Un-JEK, the sacred Komodo Dragon of SE Australia?

Surely, Jason's stories are repetitive. So is the subject/target of the stories. Jason's pretty much hitting the nail on the head and repeating. Jason, do yourself a favor and write about the Colts for this Sunday.


Posted by: Meepo | November 2, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Rock played his guts out on Monday nite. I don't have any problem w/ his returning.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

twisi

"With the new rules, speed at the skill position is going to be even more important."

Which is why this blogga is so high on drafting CJ Spiller with the 1st round pick.

He returns kicks, catches out of the backfield, and can 'flip the field' with long runs.

Lineman can be had--if you draft them.

Speed must be taken when it comes along.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 2, 2009 10:17 AM

I wouldn't be opposed to either Spiller or Best (if he comes out) in the 1st round. In that situation I'd like the FO to pick up an offensive lineman or two in free agency that are solid players. In the second round the skins can get a quality OT with that pick.

Posted by: TWISI | November 2, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

ds, its more a case of as JZ said earlier this year, maybe getting DT returning kicks, gets him more mentally focused on the game. So in order to make this happen, JZ has him returning NONE kicks...

DT returned kicks in college, and was very good at it. Rock is run of the mill, and not much more, why not give DT a chance to return some??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

That's not even close to being right. Jackson played in an NFL ready system for 3 years in college while Devin only had 1 full year in a sandlot system. Desean already knew how to run routes and already dealt with physical corner backs in college. Desean is at least 2 years ahead in development to Devin. Once Devin catches up the only difference will be talent and that's when Devin will overtake him. Desean does not go over the middle. The over the middle passes you've seen were most likely deep passes. He took one slant agianst us and almost left on a stretcher. If they choose to throw those to him he will get injured. He just isn't big enough. Desean will always be a sideline play maker. He'll never be anything more.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

paskinsfan

"... So we have to make up our minds what this team is supposed to be then adjust our draft plan accordingly."

Sir, you are absolutely, 100% correct.

Philosophy is important as it dictates talent acquisition.

Just what kind of offense the team hopes to run versus the type of players it drafts has been at odds since Norv Turner left.

Most importantly, the offensive line has deteriorated as it's a mismatch of players and philosophy.

The skins can still go WCO.

But moving forward, the linemen, a line coach, and athleticism must be brought in to make it work.

All this works when you have a savvy general manager in place.

And there, we go right back to the heart of the redskins issues.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 2, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

So we have to make up our minds what this team is supposed to be then adjust our draft plan accordingly.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 10:26 AM |

A little ahead of ourselves, aren't we? First off, Snyder needs to fire Cerrato. Then he needs to hire a GM who knows what he is doing. Then the GM needs to hire a HC. The HC will bring with O philosophy. But it don't even end there. You looks at the draft and your current roster and adapt according. The HC may be a WCO guy, likes Andy Reid, but being adaptive he takes a non WCO WR like Jack with a ton of speed because he know that speed trump everything, especially when you have slinger like McN. Whew.

Posted by: FreakyGeeky | November 2, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Boy, every time Jasno or Jason run out of things to say they push the reset button and this "Tragedy of the 2008" draft emerges. I had almost forgotten about that draft, but now that they bring it up with 20-20 hindsight, it sure doesn't look very good, does it?

Posted by: League-Source | November 2, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2009/11/01/where_executive_action_is_needed_these_should_be_among_the_top_candidates/?page=2

from this past Sunday's paper...list of some of the possible top executive/GM types who could be out there....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Surely, Jason's stories are repetitive. So is the subject/target of the stories.

Posted by: Meepo | November 2, 2009 10:33 AM |

Target audience for this RI post - dudes from other planets who are RI first timers. Heh, heh.

Posted by: FreakyGeeky | November 2, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

PASkins, I'm not saying that Desean Jackson is T.O. or Donald Driver going over the middle, but I've seen him catch three and five yard slants. Maybe not all the time, but I know I've seen it a few times since he's been playing.

Which games? I couldn't tell you.

Besides, why would you send Desean Jackson over the middle when his strength is streaking down the sideline and getting behind coverage. It's been working for him so far. Steve Smith form the Panthers has made a damn decent career doing it.

You play to your strengths. Anything else is just dumb silly.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

And PASkins while you argue about who did what in college, the point is that they still had to learn at a NFL level.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

red, you could very easily argue that NOTHING has been done to utilize the strenghts of DThomas, I'm not saying he's a game breaker, but putting the ball in his hands, needs to be PRIORITIZED...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

I must admit that it was nice to get away from the Redskins for the bye week –- because our Mondays have been overwhelmingly gloomy and depressing ever since the start of football season.

It's unfortunate that the team didn't use their time more productively -- to do such things as install a few new plays, work out a few offensive linemen, pick up a free agent quarterback, or anything else that might have improved their competitive position.

So as bad as some might think the first part of the season has been, we can only expect it to be even worse in the weeks ahead. Not that anyone at Redskin Park appears to get a damn about any of that.

The one bit of news that did come out during the bye week was the naming of Snyder's head lawyer David Donovan as the chief operating officer for the team

So in essence, the Redskins have basically promoted the guy who brought you the embarrassment of suing little old widows –- along with the prohibition on signs and critically worded tee shirts at the stadium –- and who knows what besides?

So all in all, Redskin fans can continue to expect not only more of the same -- but even worse!

Posted by: Vic1 | November 2, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

GM wish list.(In order):

Dave Gettleman/Giants
Chris Polian/Colts
Jimmy Raye/Chargers
Doug Whaley/Steelers
Les Snead/Falcons

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

The redskins' FO could a lot from the Vikings.

A couple of years ago, the team was on top with Moss, Culpepper, Cris Carter, and Robert Smith.

Then, they had the 'boating issue' where a number of players where accused of exposing their torpedos during a cruise--and suddenly, the new owner had to pull the team up from a publicity bottom.

A coach was fired.

Brad Childress was hired.

And some crafty purple-loving people drafted a solid offensive line, running back, stellar wide outs, traded for Jared Allen and Steve Hutchinson, and pulled the trigger to get Favre when most folks thought the idea comical.

Now the Purple People Eaters--with so much youth in tow--stand ready to rock the NFC for some time to come.

The skins FO is about to play a Falcons team that, like the Vikes, went through some 'stuff' and came out on top.

There is hope, people: if you're willing to wait and learn.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 2, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Beans, how can Devin Thomas be given the chance to make plays when he has the likes of Campbell throwing to him and Heyer blocking?

I'm not saying all of Thomas' shortcomings are on him, but during the off-season when he should have been in D.C. working with Campbell, he's instead in Miami, the 3-O-Fiiii, getting tats with Clinton Portis and who knows what else. That speaks largely to his desire to become "a complete receiver" and his maturity.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

You play to your strengths. Anything else is just dumb silly.

Who knew? Did you get this vital information over to Ashburn?

Posted by: daggar | November 2, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Besides, why would you send Desean Jackson over the middle when his strength is streaking down the sideline and getting behind coverage. It's been working for him so far. Steve Smith form the Panthers has made a damn decent career doing it.

You play to your strengths. Anything else is just dumb silly.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse


My whole point was that Devin Thomas has more strengths because he can go over the middle. If you can't go over the middle then you will not be a top WR. Teams will begin to gameplan for Desean like they did with Steve Smith. On the subject of Devin Thomas's results:

I hate this immediate results BS and this stupid expecting rediculous results crap that's infected our entire fanbase. It's stupid. Stop it. We fail to properly evaluate talent and we build unrealistic expectations even though we were provided with proper informtaion beforehand. I'm sick of it. It's counterproductive and just makes these guys look stupid. It's not Devin's fault he hasn't contributed yet. It's Vinny's fault for drafting a guy that needed development and expecting him to have an immediate impact. This is why we say this team has no plan and no direction. It's true, it doesn't. We just go through the motions like everyone else except that we have no idea what we are trying to accomplish. This is why Vinny needs to go.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

With an uncapped year, it is amazing that we didn't try and trade as many players as possible to get draft picks... The "experts" are saying that this draft is going to have an unprecedented amount of Juniors coming out this year, to "juke" the Rookie Scale the following year. Especially players like Carlos Rogers that we will let go in the offseason for free... Although, he may be like Soups and become a Restricted FA since I believe he is still on his Rookie Scale.

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | November 2, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

If Snyder/Cerato didn't like the Saunders' offense, why did they go to a West Coast offense. You can call the Saunders' offense what you want, but it certainly had the same principles as the WC offense, 5 guys into the pattern, quick QB reads, crossing routes, etc. Saunders certainly wasn't running the Gibbs power running game, play action, throw it down the field, max protect offense. And JC didn't fit into the Saunders' offense anymore than he fits in the WC offense.

Posted by: Sonny9 | November 2, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Thank you for this article! It's crazy no one has recapped Cerato's damning comments from that 2008 draft, which pretty much proved his illegitimacy. "Highest player on the board" is just another way of saying "I am responsible for things I surely do not understand."

Posted by: rfjh1 | November 2, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Best player on the board = fantasy football. There are exceptions of course, but I wouldn't trust Vinny Cerrato's judgement as to what those are.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | November 2, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

On September 20, Robert Henson tweets to fans.

On September 21, Dan Snyder should have released him
_________________________________________

In order to accomplish what?

Posted by: millineumman | November 2, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

2-14 here we come! thx Vinny!

Posted by: pathmo | November 2, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

I get so sick of the draft pick comparisons to DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal. How do we know that they would even be productive if they came here? They would probably suck because of the current telent around them. Maybe if Malcolm Kelly went to the Pats, he would be an all pro flanker.

Posted by: mcvacin | November 2, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

IMHO:
The immediate impact vs. career success argument about whether the receivers we drafted are any good is pretty ridiculous. DeSean Jackson has done more in several single games than ANY OF THE THREE receivers we drafted have done.

On Loosenupsandy.blogspot.com I predicted last year that it would be a 50-50 bet that DeSean will have more receiving yards in his rookie year than the three amigos will have cumulatively in their careers -- right now I'd take DeSean's career yardage over the amigos' combined career yardage. Fred Davis can catch, but can't block, which is why he hadn't seen the field, methinks.

This is colossal whiff, with three tries at it, is just an example of why we should have no confidence in two people with little and no demonstrated excellence in drafting players, Vinny, Danny.

And as to the argument that the other receivers have better talent around them -- really? on Kansas City for Eddie Royal? I think it is less the cut & dried "talent around them" than that they were not brought into a organization of functional excellence. When you are part of a clusterfudge it enables the sleeping late, not learning the playbook, screwing around in meetings.

And I still say Atlanta is the paradigm we want to follow for reinventing this franchise. Get the adults back in charge.

Posted by: positiveforce | November 2, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Ran over a deer once, swore it looked just like Vinnie Cerrato....

Posted by: atidwell | November 2, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

"Perhaps Thomas, Davis and Kelly will emerge as forces in the passing game during the remainder of Washington's schedule"

And I just saw a pig with wings fly by my window, after the Easter Bunny and Santa went cruising by a few minutes ago...

Posted by: nowhine | November 2, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Vinny has been trying to put in his West Coast system since he's been here. He switched to a WC system knowing it wouldn't fit Campbell whom they had already decided wouldn't be with the team for the long term. Ever since Vinny has been here it's like we don't have a championship history but his glory days in San Francisco in the 80's and 90's are what everyone needs to follow. Look at the players he's brought in, Andre Carter, Brandon Lloyd, probably Adam Archwhatever, Jim Zorn, from the Holmgren tree. He's been trying to force that (San Francisco flavor) style of play on the Redskins in one way or another since he's been with the organization. We won our championships from having a big offensive line, productive running game, dominating defense and a deep passing game. Those ideas believe it or not still work but hey, I think Vinny has his own ideas and agenda. This is not San Francisco.

Posted by: bmerrion | November 2, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

we where 6-2 last year because we had a healthy portis for 8 weeks and a healthy offense line, while campbell didnt make mistakes. It feel apart because everyone knew the offensive line with the age and injuries the guys had they wont last and portis nagging injuries would conitnue. frustrating that it has carried in this season. But cerrato needs to realize its not what do in 1st round what u do 2 to 7 and signing draft free agents and he drafted kelly who knock was injuries thomas maturity and davis is one dimensional at this time can catch cant block

Posted by: cjdwolfpack | November 2, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

More redundant than the article is the same posters posting the same crap that is obvious to everyone giving themselves high fives for stating the obvious. A bunch of Skip Baylesses without the ESPN paycheck. Ok the skins are bad now if you posters are really as smart as you think you are how about calling money on players in the 2010 draft that could help the skins. Give some names, schools and positions. I dont mean Colt McCoy or Tim Teebow the guys we all hear about every week, but players that we dont see all weekend. You guys just think you are smart because you have the luxury of monday morning QBking. How many of you know who was the next pick after Landry? Try adrian peterson. But how many of you know it all were angry when we did not get him? My point its easy to second guess. Vinny may not be that great of a GM but you guys only get it right after the fact. Which one of you can call the next DeSean Jackson right now? So we wont even talk about which limeman to draft. And most of you up until last season was predicting superbowl every time Vinny and Snyder picked up a high priced past their prime free agent. From Deion to Jeff George. Most of you wanted Brad Johnson and Marty fired at the time. I also remember most of you praying for Gibbs return only to turn on him one season later. How many of you were calling Charley Casserly a lousy GM before we were given Vinny? Now you quote Casserly. You people are like bad weathermen. You can always tell us its raining while its raining but you cant predict the weather ahead of time.

Posted by: ged0386 | November 2, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

I thought Dan Snyder wanted to hire Jim Fassel to be Redskins Head Coach. Then, Jim Fassel wanted to hire Jim Zorn as offensive coordinator. The Fans sent a rumble and changed Snyder's decision to hire Jim Fassel so Snyder met Jim Zorn and really liked this guy and hire him as coach instead of Fassel.

Posted by: clifton3 | November 2, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

I thought Dan Snyder wanted to hire Jim Fassel to be Redskins Head Coach. Then, Jim Fassel wanted to hire Jim Zorn as offensive coordinator. The Fans sent a rumble and changed Snyder's decision to hire Jim Fassel so Snyder met Jim Zorn and really liked this guy and hire him as coach instead of Fassel.

Posted by: clifton3 | November 2, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

WELL, I THINK BY NOW THERE ARE FEW PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW THE NFL(even a little) WHO DON`T KNOW ABOUT THE SKINS MANAGEMENT IDIOTS..AND THEIR POOR DECISIONS OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS.
THE FACT IS THAT JOE GIBBS WAS NOT VERY GOOD AT SPOTTING GOOD PLAYERS. THE FIRST TIME AROUND HE HAD BOBBY BETHART PICKING THE PLAYERS. REMEMBER HE GAVE A WASHED UP BOB BRUNELL A 42 MILLION DOLLAR DEAL.

BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE MEDIA CAN KEEP REPEATING THEMSELVES ...BUT IT IS OLD NEWS. UNTIL SNYDER GETS A REAL GM..AND THEN GETS OUT OF THE WAY..WE WILL NOT SEE A WINNING SEASON IN DC.

Posted by: blazerguy234 | November 2, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan17,

I agree with most of your points except the point that if DT or MK were in Philly they too will be performing.

They need to find out what those two can do... I don't want them to wait for injury to find out if they are capable or not. The injury to Cooley will mean they have no option than to play Davis... what will it take to get ARE out of the line-up? Dude gives you nothing!!!

Posted by: samiismoni14 | November 2, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

This article is a good example of why Jason Reid is not yet a particularly good football analyst. He cherry-picks facts to support his conclusion while ignoring those that contradict it (a la Fox News). He conveniently brands Sam Baker of Atlanta a 'two year starter' without noting that Sam started only 5 games his first year. He'd much rather talk about the players the Skins didn't draft than pay attention to the (supposedly better run) clubs that failed to draft those same players (Eddie Royal, DeSean Jackson).

You don't have to support Cerrato or Snyder to be suspicious of sloppy thinking and glib conclusions. But you can't use those to fix an NFL franchise.

They're only good for placating angry fans.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 2, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

To "Daniel M. Snyder":

One week into BYE Week and one question comes to mind:

WHY IS CERRATO STILL HERE ???? Have you freakin' lost it?

Thanks for your time.

Posted by: AWWNats | November 2, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry, I did not mean to dis you before.

Correction:

To: "MR. Daniel M. Snyder":

One week into BYE Week and one question comes to mind:

WHY IS CERRATO STILL HERE ???? Have you freakin' lost it?

Thanks for your time.

(spit)

Posted by: AWWNats | November 2, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

What I dont understand is that today we signed a Fullback to the 53 man squad... since we lost a lineman for the year. Oh yeah, we signed a lineman but put him on our practice squad. Those dumb and dumber shirts make soo much sense now :) We have Pete Kendall and Jon Runyan out there as proven veteran lineman. Sign them to one year deals and get them up to speed.... try and salvage the year or at least pretend to...... Redskins mgt is beyond idiotic... their own medical staff was worried about Kelly's knee and we drafted him anyway. Vinny belongs on the short bus!

Posted by: rvanags | November 2, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

It's funny - there is so much hatred for Dan Snyder, the evil midget, that any article on the Redskins unleashes a torrent of bile and venom.

Folks, don't blame Vinny Cerrato for hanging on to a job at the only NFL team insane enough to employ him to do anything but collect and clean jock straps.

Posted by: nativedc | November 2, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

People should stop bagging on Reid for repeating himself. As long as Cerrato continues to ignore the O-line issues and we subsequently stink year after year, that will be the story, year after year. That's not Reid's fault, and to look for stories elsewhere would be shirking his journalistic responsibilities. Ceratto's continual defiance against his critics, which at this point, numbers virtually everyone in the Washington D.C. area and national media save one Dan Snyder, has dragged on so long it's becoming a fascinating case study in egotism. For Cerrato, I think that addressing the O-line, by, say signing Kendall or Runyan, would be an admission that he was wrong not to. Not only is he not addressing it, but I think he is WILLFULLY not addressing it in order to keep up his appearance of being in control. Snyder is doing the same, by doing things like forcing fans not to bring signs to game, DESPITE, or perhaps BECAUSE, the media has been hammering his treatment of fans. In other words, these guys are at the point where they are intentionally sabotaging the team so that can hang onto a misguided - and ruinous for everyone else - sense of empowerment. Kudos to Reid for continuing to hammer away at them, even if the end result may only be more ruin.

Posted by: SammyT1 | November 2, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

rvanags, @ November 2, 2009 4:54 PM said,
"What I dont understand is that today we signed a Fullback to the 53 man squad... since we lost a lineman for the year.

perfect. says it all.

Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | November 2, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

"We were not going to jump down a round or two rounds to go get a need," Cerrato said after the first day of the 2008 draft. "We were going to take the best players. So, saying that, Fred Davis was the best player on our board at the time we took him. And after Fred went and a couple of guys went, Malcolm Kelly was the only guy with a first-round grade. He stuck out like a sore thumb. It was an obvious choice for us."
___________________________________________

This has been Vinny's MO since he's been posing/masquerading as someone who alledgedly knows something about personnel management. He did it again this year when Thomas and Samuels went down. Thomas goes on IR, so Vinny brings back that big strapping tailback, Anthony Alridge, all 175 pounds of him. Now Samuels goes on IR and Vinny signs Eddie Williams, a fullback.

So not only did we start the season with an old/weak/suspect OL with Thomas and Samuels as starters, now we're even weaker beacause we didn't replace them with Olineman, but running backs.

I can only hope that we will see Levi Jones starting this week in place of Stephon "The Undrafted Free Agent Sieve" Heyer. His "pass blocking" - which is supposed to be his forte(?) - might be considered involuntary manslaughter.

Posted by: SkinsKen | November 2, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

More redundant than the article is the same posters posting the same crap that is obvious to everyone giving themselves high fives for stating the obvious. A bunch of Skip Baylesses without the ESPN paycheck. Ok the skins are bad now if you posters are really as smart as you think you are how about calling money on players in the 2010 draft that could help the skins. Give some names, schools and positions. I dont mean Colt McCoy or Tim Teebow the guys we all hear about every week, but players that we dont see all weekend. You guys just think you are smart because you have the luxury of monday morning QBking. How many of you know who was the next pick after Landry? Try adrian peterson. But how many of you know it all were angry when we did not get him? My point its easy to second guess. Vinny may not be that great of a GM but you guys only get it right after the fact. Which one of you can call the next DeSean Jackson right now? So we wont even talk about which limeman to draft. And most of you up until last season was predicting superbowl every time Vinny and Snyder picked up a high priced past their prime free agent. From Deion to Jeff George. Most of you wanted Brad Johnson and Marty fired at the time. I also remember most of you praying for Gibbs return only to turn on him one season later. How many of you were calling Charley Casserly a lousy GM before we were given Vinny? Now you quote Casserly. You people are like bad weathermen. You can always tell us its raining while its raining but you cant predict the weather ahead of time.
Posted by: ged0386 | November 2, 2009 2:47 PM
___________________________________________

Hey, ged0386. I have been working for 30 years. And I'm willing to make more than a friendly wager that if I had spent my 30 year career working in an NFL front office I could do absolutely no worse that Danny and Vinny.

These guys have the highest positions in a high profile franchsise in a high profile sport. Their body of work is on public display and highly visible. They get paid by us - the Reskins fans - to perform way better than what they have for 11 seasons now.

While I may not be able to answer all of your questions - because that's not my job nor what I get paid to do - I would certainly hope that the employees that make up the Redskins' front office regarding player personnel decisions would be able to - because that's their job and what they get paid to do.

And for the record, Snyder and Cerrato completely blew up a 10-6 NFC East Champions by bringing in the likes of Jeff George, Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith and Mark Carrier after the 1999 season. I've liked very of their free agent follies; and while he has done a decent job this year, wasn't in favor of bringing in Haynesworth when we were in desperate need of Olinemen.

Posted by: SkinsKen | November 2, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Just like in the non-football world, a good manager needs to get the right talent in the right places, and think big picture while thinking bottom line and performance needs. There aren't many good managers in business as a result, just as there aren't many good GM's in the NFL. You need good talent at the top to acquire top talent in the organization. Vinny ain't one of those. Dan can do what he wants - he owns the team. We don't know what kind of a thinker Snyder is though. School's out on that, he does want to win though. Is he a big picture kind of owner? Who knows. He needs to do the right thing and get the right talent at the top for starters.

Posted by: bfjam | November 2, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Stop wasting your words...even on a keyboard trying to over evaluate this DYSFUNCTIONAL DISASTER....This team is BROKEN from the tip of their tongues to the end of their anus......

Player acquisiton= BROKEN
Coach= OVERwhelmed and UNDERskilled
Players..Too slow..too dumb...too old and too broken.......no talent

2-14 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! DEAL WITH IT !!!!!

Posted by: FletcherChristian1 | November 2, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps, Jason??? perhaps??? Perhaps Vinny and Danny will drown each other in Potomac. Yeah, there's about as much chance of that as our 2008 receivers becoming good.

Say... did Davis learn to block during the bye week?

Posted by: Redskinrex | November 2, 2009 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Fire Zorn. Fire Vinny. Bench and release Campbell. Leave the Defense alone. Bring in a new offensive line. Promote Greg Blache to head coach.

Posted by: jsmith33351 | November 3, 2009 4:10 AM | Report abuse

Reid is right that it was before the 2008 season everything went wrong.. The Skins just made the playoffs and finished up the season looking great doing it. It was the wrong time to change everything.. and that's what Snyder did. And not just change but change for the worse.. Williams should have been made head coach and Saunders should have continued being OC. That was what was WORKING!!! Getting rid of them to bring in Zorn and a completely different system was a long shot at best.. when they didn't need to take the risk. of course the reason was Campbell looked bad in Saunders system.. but so what Collins looked great.. Skins could have traded Campbell and got a solid player or draft pick for him.. and then drafted a QB of the future.. (Collins would have been fine for a year or two at QB) Also drafting 3 receivers??? Draft one in the second round but draft NEED first.. which was a guy to step in for a declining Jansson. This is Snyders biggest fault he doesn't see what needs to be fixed.. you can't just change for change sake. Oh and one more thing speaking of mistakes the Skins traded up to get Campbell.. the pick or 2 after him the Falcons drafted Roddy White WR. Collins throwing to Moss and White and Cooley.. behind a good OL.. now that's an offense...

Posted by: sovine08 | November 3, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

once again Cerrato and Snyder with all their meddling and persistent belief that they know "football" rather than fooz-ball has shown their inept ability to evaluate players, coaches, and a full roster that will make any offensive scheme successful. flat out front office just stink! they're trying to say "they're getting the best players" but that doesn't translate better execution, chemistry and camaraderie to say the least. Every player is playing for himslef and at the end of the day, win or lose, they look at their paycheck!

BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!BOYCOTT!

Posted by: alucard1 | November 3, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

The problem is the o-line. The problem is the o-line. The problem is the o-line. THe problem is the o-line. The problem is the o-line. The problem is the o-line. The problem is the o-line. The problem is the o-line.

Posted by: pmiller33 | November 3, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

ok in the 2008 draft the redskins took devin thomas ,left eddie royal and deseaen jackson on the board then picked fred davis ,left desean jackson on the board then picked malcolm kelly and again left desean jackson on the board. your talent evaluators are your problem aka vinnie and the scouts ,but nooo wait we need a new coach? jim zorn is a genius and given time will give us teams like we are used to. if only danny boy could see this. instead we get tight ends that cant block and recievers with no work ethic or drive.

Posted by: tird45 | November 3, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

ok in the 2008 draft the redskins took devin thomas ,left eddie royal and deseaen jackson on the board then picked fred davis ,left desean jackson on the board then picked malcolm kelly and again left desean jackson on the board. your talent evaluators are your problem aka vinnie and the scouts ,but nooo wait we need a new coach? jim zorn is a genius and given time will give us teams like we are used to. if only danny boy could see this. instead we get tight ends that cant block and recievers with no work ethic or drive.

Posted by: tird45 | November 3, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

MARTY SHOTTENHEIMER FOR GM!

He is the only one that will stand up to Danny and fix this mess. He will know what to do with the coaches and players. He will fix the scouting organization, which must be a mess since they have drafted so poorly lately.

Look how well Miami is doing now that Bill Parcells is their GM.

Sadly, Joe Gibbs is not GM material. He is not good at standing up to Danny.

Is Danny man enough to swallow his pride and ask Marty to take over football operations? Probably not, but one can hope.

Posted by: PriorKnowledge | November 3, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

My point its easy to second guess. Vinny may not be that great of a GM but you guys only get it right after the fact. Which one of you can call the next DeSean Jackson right now? So we wont even talk about which limeman to draft. And most of you up until last season was predicting superbowl every time Vinny and Snyder picked up a high priced past their prime free agent. From Deion to Jeff George. Most of you wanted Brad Johnson and Marty fired at the time. I also remember most of you praying for Gibbs return only to turn on him one season later. How many of you were calling Charley Casserly a lousy GM before we were given Vinny? Now you quote Casserly. You people are like bad weathermen. You can always tell us its raining while its raining but you cant predict the weather ahead of time.
Posted by: ged0386
_____
Well not saying I know everything or would make a good GM but even I knew signing Deion Sanders, Jeff George, Bruce Smith and Mark Carrior were mistakes at the time. You don't build a team by overpaying past their time players!!! I was for getting Marty Schottenheimer and wanted to keep Brad Johnson.. I was pissed when he left. Also after finishing 8-3 I want Marty back and knew it was a mistake to fire him. I didn't want Spurrier but did like the signng of Pat Ramsey. I was glad Spurrier left and of course happy the Skins got Gibbs back (now maybe I'm wrong but I think the Skins would have been better if Gibbs kept Ramsey starter instead of Brunnell and Campbell). Knew Collins was better than Campbell in 2007 (and said so many times on this blog) and felt I was proved right at end of season. Was for making Williams HC, keeping Saunders OC and keeping Collins starting QB (also said that on this blog) so not suprised at all Zorn and Campbell are sucking it up. So what to do now. First fire Zorn, nice guy but isn't ready. I'd go for Shanahan as HC , need offense minded coach and Mike has the advantage of having had Portis before.. if not I'd go for Gruden. But need experienced guy.. Schottenhemer and Gibbs were good.. Spurrier and Zorn bad. Next DUMP CAMPBELL!! Guy killed this team. I wouldn't draft a QB (honestly no one really impresses me). Me I'd sign David Carr from the Giants.. was a first pick of past draft, knows the Giants and the NFC East. I'd also keep Colt Brennan. (Still believe the kid could be a good one). Last draft the best left tackle they can get FIRST. Then draft a RT or RG (sign as a free agent the guy they don't draft). No big moves on defense but of course Skins have to bring in a football guy as GM (work that out with the HC). Start with that and build a Super Bowl winner.. hey no reason the Skins can't do what the Dolphins did a year ago.. worst to first in division...

Posted by: sovine08 | November 3, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

sovine8
Good post..
However, being a fan of a Snyder owned team is futile.

Any competent Head Coach or GM that comes in and begins to turn this mess around, will be undone by his own success due to Dannys fragile ego.

Snyder is driven by a narcissist personality combined with a "chip on his shoulder ego". So, if he sees a Head Coach taking headlines and credit for an improving team.. he will begin to apply the "its my show" screws to him. He did it to Gibbs by using Vinny to usurp control. And he did it to Shottenheimer.
Gibbs quit, and it wasnt for family reasons (he was seen a week later in Loudon, New Hampshire at a NASCAR event). Marty wanted to be fired after Dan began to make his life miserable.

Zorn will probably be fired and Snyder will hire a high profile marquee Head Coach. And the cycle will begin again.. This new Head Coach turns it around. And when he begins to get credit and headlines in the media, Danny's fragile ego will rear its ugly head and run him off using Vinny as his tool again and again.

This dysfunction will continue under Snyder.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | November 3, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe how much of a LAUGHINGSTOCK this team has become. Here are some quotes from Fox Sports. The first is about Atlanta's upcoming game against the Skins.

"Matty Ice is ice cold, as in slump frigid. He's struggling to hit any targets, unless you count to opposing players. Ryan's connected on barely half of his passes the past three games, with seven picks in that span. All I'm saying is, it's a good time for the Redskins to come to town."

Here's what they say about the Skins when discussing the Atlanta game.

"It was nice, wasn't it? A week away from the Redskins ongoing soap opera. It was getting old, and very suffocating each week. But that wacky Jim Zorn is back this week after a bye week of enjoying his new role of . . . umm, well . . . being emasculated on his very own sideline. Bingo anyone?"

Way to go Dan Snyder. Look what you've done to this once proud franchise. I hope the money is worth it.

I wonder what the two Hall of Famer's that are in my screen name are thinking right about now. Maybe you should seek some advice from them.

Shame on you, Dan Snyder. Shame on you....

Posted by: Monk81_Green28 | November 3, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

as pitiful as the cleveland browns are, it looks like they're trying to fix the problem and it starts w/ firing their gm and bringing in someone who'll get shyt don't the right way. why can't snyder do the same thing and hand cerrato his pink slip now? cerrato knows something about snyder that the league isn't supposed to know. how else can you explain the fact that this fool still has a job after the piss poor job he's done over the last 10 seasons on the team. i'm tell everyone right now...the moment snyder fires cerrato, people will start to respect him a bit more...that's only if he brings in someone who knows how to scout talent better and can put this team in a position to win again. i'm a die hard fan but i'm tired of the skins sitting in the nfc east cellar season after season. living in texas makes things all the worst because the cowboy fans can at least brag about winning until they hit the month of december and then we all know what happens during that month. anyhow hail to the redskins and fuqq the cowboys!!!

Posted by: charronegro1971 | November 3, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

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