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Rabach provides stability as line improves

Amid all the injuries and shuffling along the offensive line, center Casey Rabach has continued to anchor the unit while providing some stability for quarterback Jason Campbell.

Campbell has produced passer ratings of more than 106 in consecutive weeks for the first time in his career. The offense has scored at least 30 points in back-to-back weeks for the first time under Coach Jim Zorn and Sunday's 21-point margin of victory also was the largest in Zorn's tenure.

"It's sad that it took this long, obviously,"' he said. "But it's not to see the evolution of this offense and what we're capable of. Hopefully, we'll just keep on doing this and build for next year."

By Jason Reid  |  December 15, 2009; 7:00 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Comments

Let's not get too giddy about JC and this offense. Sure we are playing well right now but would we go into next year feeling strong about JC being the starter. His pocket pressence is still awful and if it were not for the line improvement he would be the same QB he was against the Chiefs.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 7:08 AM | Report abuse

Joe any QB would look bad behind the line we had earlier in the year. Name one QB that looks great with a bad line. Just come out and say you don't like the man.

Posted by: jm220 | December 15, 2009 7:16 AM | Report abuse

Sure we are playing well right now but would we go into next year feeling strong about JC being the starter.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 7:08 AM

The answer to that question is easy. I would feel better NEXT YEAR with JC than with any other name I've seen out there. "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know."

Now, long term, is different. But next year? JC for me.

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Ok, I'll admit I don't like him as our starting QB. Is he really a QB you can trust with any type of line?

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 7:32 AM | Report abuse

It looks like Campbell is getting comfortable, but he's still missing guys, his accuracy is still an issue. I don't know if that's coachable or not.

I do think he's better under the new coaching structure. I think he could get better undere a better quarterback coach. Zorn, to have been a quarterback coach in Seattle, has done a poor job with Campbell. Obviously his coaching ability is in question. I also think Zorn's making excuses for Campbell when he struggled didn't help Campbell at all.

Posted by: bris02 | December 15, 2009 7:36 AM | Report abuse

Joe name one QB that looks good under a poor line. Look at the Pats a couple of years ago when the G men won the SB. They were crushing everyone and Tom was putting up crazy numbers. Then in the SB when the line couldn't really protect him his numbers were average.

Posted by: jm220 | December 15, 2009 7:49 AM | Report abuse

Is he really a QB you can trust with any type of line?

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 7:32 AM

Yes! Remember the first half of last year when the Redskins had a good O Line? We were 6-2.

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 7:49 AM | Report abuse

"Let's not get too giddy about JC and this offense. Sure we are playing well right now but would we go into next year feeling strong about JC being the starter. His pocket pressence is still awful..."


Define 'pocket presence' in today's NFL.

The days of Unitas, Marino, Kelly, and Fouts standing tall looking downfield while a receiver breaks free are over.

And unless a team has the type of tackles who protect Rivers, Brady, Manning, and Brees, its quarterback is going to get hit on just about every passing play.

So 'pocket presence' is more about survival than looking pretty and upright.

Today's quarterback has to be a guy who can withstand getting hit and run to freedom when things breakdown.

That's why you draft 6'5" 230 quarterbacks.

Measure a guy by accuracy, ability to withstand the rush, knowing when to make adjustments based on pressure, and, above all, wins.

And here is where Campbell can be criticized.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

Sure we are playing well right now but would we go into next year feeling strong about JC being the starter. His pocket pressence is still awful and if it were not for the line improvement he would be the same QB he was against the Chiefs.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 7:08 AM


I'm sure you think Cutler and Sanchez would be better, right?

Be happy with what you have and thank the sweet baby Jesus we didn't end up with either of those pick machines.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 7:55 AM | Report abuse

Define 'pocket presence' in today's NFL.
Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

I define pocket pressence as having an idea of where the pressure is when you step up in the pocket. Example - Game number one against the Giants, Campbell stepped up to avoid the rush not aware that when you step up there still are rushers coming from the back side. Result = ball being slapped away by Osi and the Giants recover. JC lacks that kind of awareness.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 8:06 AM | Report abuse

@glawrence-do you really have to ask who gave Portis the diva deal? All glaring signs point to the Danny.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2009 10:31 PM | Report abuse

Not all minds are as incisive as yours campbell. Sorry to trouble you.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 14, 2009 10:44 PM |

I believe you mean sarcastic and bitter.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | December 14, 2009 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Well you said it campbell, I didn't.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 15, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

brownwood SHOUTOUT. Whad' up my man.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 15, 2009 8:08 AM | Report abuse

I'm with te/ls, keep JC and build the offense around him, rather than starting over for the what, 10th time...there is a direct correlation between the number of qb's they've had, and the success they have not had...

"The average yards-after-catch posted by receivers is 6.2 yards, which is tops in the league"

gee...turns out that FD/DT/MK might be able to play this game after all....wow...who knew...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

I'm with te/ls, keep JC and build the offense around him, rather than starting over for the what, 10th time...there is a direct correlation between the number of qb's they've had, and the success they have not had...

"The average yards-after-catch posted by receivers is 6.2 yards, which is tops in the league"

gee...turns out that FD/DT/MK might be able to play this game after all....wow...who knew...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 8:10 AM

Herein lies the problem at QB. I agree with all that there isn't much out there unless you groom someone for 2-3 years and the organization doesn't have the patience. SO in essence, we are stuck with the "best trailor in the trailor park" with JC.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 8:16 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure you think Cutler and Sanchez would be better, right?

Be happy with what you have and thank the sweet baby Jesus we didn't end up with either of those pick machines.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 7:55 AM | Report abuse

You got that right. That's why I'm for signing JC for two, if he's willing of course.

Still, SONNY JURGENSON's suggestion that IF he's tendered, a trade for a one and two pick could be engineered, makes sense also. I want enough picks to replace RB, OT's, OG, FS, CB, OLB, and there just aren't enough to go around. I don't want to HAVE to pick a QB too, especially this year.

So I suggested that IF CAMPBELL goes in a trade, COOLEY should also for another first rounder. That would give us three first rounders and potentially two second's or a third.

If the year's uncapped, we could clear payroll by moving SELLERS, PORTIS and ARE off the club and sign ATOGWE or COLLINS, and DUNTA ROBINSON in free-agency. Then take someone like KEITH BULLOCK to allow ORAKPO to concentrate on being a down line-man. Put YODER in SELLERS place, draft DWYER, and let MITCHELL or THOMAS play in the slot.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 15, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

joe, what would you rather do?

jc has improved since last year, so fortify the offensive line, and chances are that he'll improve even more. So given that, you'd rather draft/bring in a qb, and start back at scratch??

really?? that makes zero sense to me....so lets say they draft a qb, what is gonna change on the OL?? the qb is still gonna be running for his life, so that was 1 step forward, 3 steps backwards...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Hey GL007, Good Morning.

Joe, here's something to consider: if Doug Williams didn't have the Hogs, he'd be...wait for it...Jason Campbell. And JC has the advantage of being able to run a little bit.

Not saying that JC is better than Doug, but DW17 wasn't anything to write home about until he played with Art Monk and the Hogs. If you put a good team around JC, you'd be surprised at how good he could be.

Fix the O-line, fix the offense. So easy a caveman can do it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

"So I suggested that IF CAMPBELL goes in a trade, COOLEY should also for another first rounder. That would give us three first rounders and potentially two second's or a third"

while we're at it, we could ship betts out for at least a second, samuels out for at least 2 firsts, and lets see if we can finagle a team to give us a 3rd for Sterling Palmers practice jersey.

glaw, STOP with the cooley for a first talk....STOP, we did that exercise in galactic stupidity yesterday...we're moving forward today....wtf!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

We beat the RAIDERS! That's it! We didn't beat the Saints, we didn't beat the Vikings, we didn't beat any team worth a bit of sweat off my n*ts. After a HUGE win against the GREAT RAIDERS everyone wants to say oh let's keep Campbell, let's keep Zorn. Let's watch ESPN and their flow chart on how the plays get down to Campbell.

ALL BULLSH*T. Come on Man!

Posted by: gixxer998 | December 15, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

glaw, STOP with the cooley for a first talk....STOP, we did that exercise in galactic stupidity yesterday...we're moving forward today....wtf!!!

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Ah, greg. There's no accounting for taste. And since you brought it up, what town was it that let the BRAVES walk while keeping the greatest choke team in house this side of the CUBS?

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 15, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Bingo Bandwagon for HC!!

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

joe, what would you rather do?

jc has improved since last year, so fortify the offensive line, and chances are that he'll improve even more. So given that, you'd rather draft/bring in a qb, and start back at scratch??

really?? that makes zero sense to me....so lets say they draft a qb, what is gonna change on the OL?? the qb is still gonna be running for his life, so that was 1 step forward, 3 steps backwards...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 8:22 AM

As I said in the previous post. To start all over again would be tough to do. We may be stuck with JC. All I am saying is he will not lead us anywhere. One of the better young offensive minds in McDaniels had a choice between JC or Orton. At the time I thought JC was better than Orton, however, Mc Daniels and most all scouts thought Orton was head and shoulders above JC. So that's where we are with our QB!

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

glaw, I brought this up last week, but if we have that many first round picks, 1 of them should be used on either a unicorn, or bigfoot. I had previously suggested king-kong, but thats just not feasible...

So our draft with the 3 firsts would go

1. Unicorn
1. King Kong
1. Best Yeti left on the board

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

"JC lacks that kind of awareness"


So explain away the scrambling (1 very long one) in the raiders' game.

We also saw him read through three progressions multiple times in that game--the announcer C Davis even took the time to comment on it.

Didn't he also work to avoid pressure in the broncos win for a touchdown, too?

Campbell in the pocket is fine.

Campbell pulling victory out of losses or regularly beating division rivals is not.


Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Campbell in the pocket is fine.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 8:41 AM

So you really think Campbell in the pocket is fine. Wow! One meaningless Raider game does not define him as "fine " in the pocket.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

JC is improving in all areas, including pocket presence.

Let's not forget that he had maybe his best game of his career at Dallas, as well as a great game against the best team in the league, and if Shankham makes a kick, we beat both those teams.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 15, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

"..Josh McDaniels (Bronocs head coach) and most all scouts thought Orton was head and shoulders above JC..."

I'd say they are about even.

Orton, Kyle TDS 16 INT 8 YDS 2,904 RTG 88.9 DEN

Campbell, Jason TDS 17 INT 12 YDS 2,946 RTG 89.0 WAS

And remember: denver has a solid o-line and B Marshall to throw to.

So when you take that into account, Campbell is better as he's had less to work with.

Denver just didn't want to part with draft picks as any smart, well-run team wouldn't.

That's why they down-graded Campbell--they would've taken him if the price was low.

Josh McDaniels is looking like the odd man out about right now.

I saw him blowing up at his team during the colts' beat down Sunday.

That kind of stuff wears thin on pro football players.

Like constanting criticizing an improving player does on bloggas.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Joe, funny you should bring up Kyle Orton...dude pretty much sums up the argument to keep JC. Consider this:

Orton plays in Chicago and is mediocre. Why? Not necessarily because he's a mediocre QB, it's more because their line was average at best when he was there and their WRs are flat awful. Orton goes to Denver and plays like a solid pro because now he's got Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal to throw to and a good O-line.

The moral of the story? Put JC in an offense that fits his strengths and put some weapons around him, and he can be good enough to help you win. Keep ignoring the O-line and continue to fail.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

I'm only interested in what the Redskins NEW GENERAL MANAGER thinks of Campbell. We are getting a new GM, right?

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | December 15, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

yeh. I'm all for raggin' on Soup when he's sucking - however, when he's on - why hate? Just makes you look stupid.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Hol Up....Hol Up...

Wasn't this dude just dissin Rabachs just a couple of months ago??

Wow....Just Wow...

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 15, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

I'm not even saying that I like Orton better than JC. What I'm saying is people that study film forever within the NFL(more than us bloggas) thought that it was a no brainer that Orton was ahead of JC. Now that's scary!
At the end of the day, Campbell is what he is, an average QB.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

We beat the RAIDERS! That's it! We didn't beat the Saints, we didn't beat the Vikings, we didn't beat any team worth a bit of sweat off my n*ts. After a HUGE win against the GREAT RAIDERS everyone wants to say oh let's keep Campbell, let's keep Zorn. Let's watch ESPN and their flow chart on how the plays get down to Campbell.

ALL BULLSH*T. Come on Man!

Posted by: gixxer998

How does the world look in black and white?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 15, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Joe - these arguments are old & tired. They don't apply now 'cause of the last 4 games worth of performance. The same people who were saying JC17 couldn't hold up are now saying he's played great.

You're borderline ITA at this point, you know that, right?

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

dikshuttle

beavis: did you hear that...?

butthead: hear what...?

beavis: he said, "I'm all for raggin' on Soup when he's sucking...".

butthead: sucking Soup?

beavis: yeah, he said sucking Soup.

butthead: suck Soup...or... Soup sucks

beavis: does that make him gay or hungry?

butthead: both

beavis and butthead: Suck Soup....he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he, Soup suck, he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he, he-he.....

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

At the end of the day, Campbell is what he is, an average QB.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 9:04 AM

Disagree. He's above average, he just looks worse because he's got the crap platter around him.

Even if I bought him being only average, it beats having a poor QB. You can win with an average QB, not a bad one.

And if you put Byron Leftwich or Colt McCoy behind this line, God help us all.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

4thfloor

"Hol Up....Hol Up..."


You forgot, "Ima let you finish, okay."

(INSERT image of Kanye West drunk on stage.)

"Ima let you finish...okay?"

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

people that study film forever within the NFL(more than us bloggas) thought that it was a no brainer that Orton was ahead of JC. Now that's scary!

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 9:04 AM

Has anyone said that recently?

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

huhuh huhuhuh huhuhuhuh

...I need teepee for my bunghol

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Joe - these arguments are old & tired. They don't apply now 'cause of the last 4 games worth of performance. The same people who were saying JC17 couldn't hold up are now saying he's played great.

You're borderline ITA at this point, you know that, right?

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 9:07 AM

I haven't changed my opinion even now that he is playing well. Should I be like you some others and say JC is great now!
Sorry, explain ITA?

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Hol Up....Hol Up...

Wasn't this dude just dissin Rabachs just a couple of months ago??

Wow....Just Wow...
Posted by: 4thFloor | December 15, 2009 9:00 AM

He was also saying that mike williams didn't belong on a football field, shawn springs can still shut down #1 WR's, and fred davis giggled during meetings.

Mike Williams is crushing at RG, Shawn Springs can't see the field in NE and FD86 has 5 TD's.


anyway

Please, please, please draft two OT's in the first two rounds and sign campbell to a modest 3 yr contract. I don't want to start over again, and a rookie would be ruined behind this line.

Posted by: drewkinnear | December 15, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

You should give credit where credit is due. ITA is in the wiki.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Also,

Don't forget his projected score against the sorry raiders

Posted by: drewkinnear | December 15, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

The moral of the story? Put JC in an offense that fits his strengths and put some weapons around him, and he can be good enough to help you win. Keep ignoring the O-line and continue to fail.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

You got that right.

Posted by: glawrence007 | December 15, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I think the whole QB question will go to the new coarch, provided there is one.

whudduyall think? Does Zorn come back in these circumstances if he ends up with 5 or 6 wins? At the season onset I thought nothing short of playoff wins would have kept his job.

Now w/ all the bs FO moves, I'm not so sure.

I hear others say that Shanahan is all but in. I'm not sure that's a good thing, but what do y'all know about it? WaPo certainly isn't giving us any info...

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

WaPo certainly isn't giving us any info...

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 9:22 AM

I think that's because there isn't any info. Best place for this sort of stuff -- wild azz speculative rumors -- is PFT. If you can't reach it, Beantowngreg can give you a report.

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

I thought Shanahan was the front runner in Buffalo.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

lol - I'm not sure I can trust Bean-town's PFT reports...hehehehe.

980 (Snyder's own station) has reported that it's a done deal... So I know there's scuttle out there...

Given how he's eviscerrated (sp?!?) the team, I'm actually up for givin Zoron another year to botch it up...

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

I thought Shanahan was the front runner in Buffalo.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 9:27 AM


Not unless Buffalo starts playing games at Madison Square Garden.

A small market team like that will have no draw for a guy like Shanahan. I still think he goes to Chicago if that job opens up, but if it doesn't it'll be a bidding war between us and Dallas.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Zorn could be a good coach in Buffalo, college football, the CFL, or Kuwait.

Anywhere but D.C.

Sorry, I'm all for bringing back Campbell, canning Zorn, and bringing back the Sherm heads.

The players are playing for each other, not Jim Zorn. The offense has progressed in spite of Jim Zorn.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 15, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

RedD - can't believe Zoron's repeat at bungling the 2 minute drill in 1st half. ridic.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Keep soup and take a mid round QB next year. I hate first round QBs unless they are incredible prospects like Peyton or Rodgers and even then Leaf was supposed to light it up. You can take a mid round QB every couple of years until you strike gold. A bust at QB in the first round can cripple your franchise for years. I'd offer soup a modest 3 year contract and match anything Carolina gives him. Then you can fix the oline which is the biggest issue anyway. Then get a speedy running back to pair with Quinton. Then you can get a real bonafide free safety. Then get a strong side linebacker. You can get a young QB in the middle rounds of the draft and if he beats out JC then whoopty dee we have our new guy. We are going to have to make a run soon. We have a lot of young talent that is going to enter their prime all around the same time(2-3 years from now). We have to be ready then. We can not be messing around with a busted QB.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 15, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Not saying that JC is better than Doug, but DW17 wasn't anything to write home about until he played with Art Monk and the Hogs. If you put a good team around JC, you'd be surprised at how good he could be.

Fix the O-line, fix the offense. So easy a caveman can do it.

Posted by: brownwood26

I'd say time has made you forget how accurate a passer Doug Willaims was. He threw short, intermediate and long balls with great accuracy. JC hasn't shown that-yet, and it's 5 years later.

Look I've stated it many times, he's mediocre, was in college with two stud RB's and a huge line, and he is in the NFL. Not terrible, but not great either.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 15, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

"Does Zorn come back in these circumstances if he ends up with 5 or 6 wins?"


I'd bring him back with conditions:

Sherm Lewis and Chris Miedt keep working together calling plays.

He must breakdown each of his coaching errors and explain them.

He should explain why Antawn Randle El was given such a long leash to prove his inadequacies as a punt returner.

He must see himself as a manager/motivator, something which is also a major requirement for a head coach.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

I don't think youse peoples understand.

Zorn's not coming back.
Sherm is not coming back.
Stump and Smit ain't coming back.


The WCO and Vinny ARE (not Randle-El, but the actual word) coming back.


All of this seems too obvious IMO...

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 15, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

For anybody who talks smack about JC, why don't they go and look at his stats in comparison to other QB's. He's better than average, and he spent half the year on his back. If idiot boy let's him go and JC lights it up in some place like Minnesota next year, I'll be laughing my a$$ off.

JC is a class act, he needs to be rewarded.

Posted by: Salinas1 | December 15, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Did someone really dis Greg about the Boston Braves?

That's old school,for sure.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | December 15, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Example - Game number one against the Giants, Campbell stepped up to avoid the rush not aware that when you step up there still are rushers coming from the back side. Result = ball being slapped away by Osi and the Giants recover. JC lacks that kind of awareness.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 8:06 AM | Report abuse
-----------------------------------

Same thing happened to Kurt Warner last night, so are you saying Warner lacks that awareness, too?

Look, hindsight is 20/20, but it is obvious that the entire TEAM was not playing well thru the first half of the season. Not just JC. Not just ARE. Everyone.

Blame it on age, blame it on overpaid vets, blame it on the high turnover of vets in the offseason (7 starters, I believe), blame it on the coaches, or a combination of all those things.

JC isn't going to carry 53 players to a Super Bowl any time soon, but he sure as heck isn't going to drag 53 players into last place, either.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 15, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

JC is a class act, he needs to be rewarded.

Posted by: Salinas1

He is a class act, problem is, the NFL is a business and class is not the yardstick used to measure value. If it were, CP wouldn't get a nickle.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 15, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

johnd, yeah, I'm not sure if I should have had my feelings hurt about that, or my grandfather should have....if I cared, my response could have been that the Redskins were originally called the Boston Redskins, so do with that what you will...

moe, you called the lackey thing a while ago....if you could please 'call' a large financial windfall coming my way really soon, that'd be great....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

He is a class act, problem is, the NFL is a business and class is not the yardstick used to measure value. If it were, CP wouldn't get a nickle.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 15, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

That is just making my point...idiot boy does everything a$$ backwards. If we start all over at QB AGAIN what are the chances that idiot boy finally gets it right this time? Gonna be just another Ramsey.

Posted by: Salinas1 | December 15, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

that's good - kick a man when he's down.

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"Does Zorn come back in these circumstances if he ends up with 5 or 6 wins?"


I'd bring him back with conditions:

Sherm Lewis and Chris Miedt keep working together calling plays.

He must breakdown each of his coaching errors and explain them.

He should explain why Antawn Randle El was given such a long leash to prove his inadequacies as a punt returner.

He must see himself as a manager/motivator, something which is also a major requirement for a head coach.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Absolutely not! If you want to keep the system fine, find a WCO coach. There are plenty out there. But a win against the Raiders doesn't excuse the unbelievable amount of bad decisions he made as recently as last week. He is not a quality coach, I don't care how good the bingo caller has gotten the offense looking. That in and of itself is a complete indictment of Zorn. With all the pro bowls on IR and all the journeyman playing Sherm has back to back games over 30 points and only one game under 20. Zorn couldn't do that, why would you want to keep a guy that sucks as a game day manager and can't out coach a retired bingo caller?????

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

if you don't want JC, you have to name for me a qb that can come in next year and be better than jc

Posted by: mopp04 | December 15, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Any chance that running the table could save Zorn's job?

Posted by: BC1963 | December 15, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

If it's accuracy you're worried about, JC's completion percentage is tied for eighth - with Tom Brady.

JC is not the same QB as he was against the Chiefs because the offense is different. It started clicking once Zorn was demoted and shorter passes featured, by necessity. Also, JC is no longer responsible for setting protection, which was ridiculous in the first place.

As has been said, he's better than any other option out there. Naysayers are just in denial. You guys will keep criticizing him even if he plays in the Pro Bowl.

Posted by: RIP-21 | December 15, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2:

You act like it's a simple swap, one WCO coach for a better WCO coach. Well it's not that simple. There would be new terminology, new plays, and new coaches. You can't pick up where you left off with all of those changes.

IMO, changing coaches and therefore the offense when we're obviously improving, that would be stupid.

Posted by: REXskins | December 15, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

So you really think Campbell in the pocket is fine. Wow! One meaningless Raider game does not define him as "fine " in the pocket.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 8:47 AM

It is not just one meaningless Raiders game that he has played better, past 4 games he has improved, quite a bit, probably b/c the OL has improved and is showing that is knows how to block more than just skinny people at a buffet line...

I think Zorn needs to go IMO, cant seem to communicate, I dont know for sure, but I think his controlling ways and sense of Perfection is what has brought us to this point now. I think with Zorn out of JC ears during the games, is helping him relax, which probably lets him be more comfortable and confident, keep S. Lewis and Chris Miedt, they are what is really helping JC play better, since S. Lewis, JC does not seem to watching his feet, worrying as much about the pocket protection and his head is up looking down field, he seems to be where we thought he would have been last year, just 2 seasons later and a crappy record, I think that is on Zorn, OL and Vinny for neglecting the OL to protect the QB and work the run

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 15, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

"...that's good - kick a man when he's down."


You mean there is some other time?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Zorn couldn't do that, why would you want to keep a guy that sucks as a game day manager and can't out coach a retired bingo caller?????

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 10:07 AM

Jack, He's not a "retired bingo caller." He's a retired offensive coordinator. Do you understand the difference?

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

I think Zorn's inability to get the young kids on the field will be his downfall when Snyder weighs the pros and cons...he will look at how well the youngsters have played, once they have gotten on the field and say, well Vinny picked those kids, that is a PRO, Zorn did not play them, due to TRUST and that is a Con...Zorn out and Vinny stays.

Isnt Sherm calling Zorn's playbook, same plays, just different caller? I thought I heard that on the ESPN980 with Vinny's show and on Doc Walker.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 15, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Example - Game number one against the Giants, Campbell stepped up to avoid the rush not aware that when you step up there still are rushers coming from the back side. Result = ball being slapped away by Osi and the Giants recover. JC lacks that kind of awareness.

Posted by: joeboggs |

So Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees all lack pocket awareness because of their fumbles on sacks the last two weeks. Genius.

Posted by: geotherm21 | December 15, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

bean

Select the best on-paper rotation in the AL:


Beckett
Lackey
Dice K
Lester
Wakefield

v.

Sabathia
Burnett
Petitte
Chamberlain
?

Unless the Yanks find a fifth pitcher, Boston has won that argument.

(I think a four man rotation with triple A fill-ins and no names guys is all we got--again)

But once the pressure of October hits, well, it's starts a whole other argument.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

About JC accuracy issues, I think in today's WasPo it mentions the the Skins WR lead the league in YAC. I think it speaks to an extent to JC delivering a catchable ball, that is allowing his WRs to turn upfield and gain yards. I'll agree his issues are with the deep ball, but with the short and intermediate route I think his accuracy is fine.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

"At the time I thought JC was better than Orton, however, Mc Daniels and most all scouts thought Orton was head and shoulders above JC."

Were they right?

----------Compl % Yds YPA TDs INTs RAT

Campbell 65.3 - 2964 - 7.40 - 17 - 12 - 89.0
Orton -- 62.9 - 2904 - 7.08 - 16 - 8 - 88.9

And you can tell me who you think has a better supporting cast, coaching staff included.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Who cares about stats?? Completion percentages are sooo misleading, especially for a WCO QB.

What's JC17's YPA? And what's his win-loss record?

Those two things are better indicators...

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 15, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

Beckett
Lackey
Dice K
Lester
Wakefield

I'd swap out Wake with Buchholz, maybe go with 6 starters to give these guys a rest...hopefully they're spinning bucholz to the padres for Agon...

yanks have a better rotation, more vested if you will....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

We should all count our lucky stars that McDaniels thought orton was better, no RAK and his 11 sacks no 1st round this yr!!

Posted by: drewkinnear | December 15, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

I'm split on the Zorn thing.

On the positive side, it seems like the players are supportive and have worked through whatever performance issues were occurring early in the season

On the negative side, the talent evaluation process is clearly lacking. And Zorn apparently WAS losing sight of his HC responsibilities while play calling.

But what do you do? I'm a big believer in continuous improvement in the workplace, and it is impossible to think of Zorn as an NFL ready coach on day 1. So can he himself be coached up into an HC?

What do we have to lose, anyway? I mean, FA and injuries have already blown up Gibbs roster, we already got beat by the Lions, and our worst fears for the Oline have already come true.

Ok, final analysis: If Zorn AND Vinny go, I'm happy. If Vinny stays, I think Zorn should stay.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 15, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

What's JC17's YPA? And what's his win-loss record?

Those two things are better indicators...

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 15, 2009 10:22 AM

Of what? I'd buy the win-loss record in tennis or golf. But the win-loss record depends on the rest of the team more than it does on JC. And the yards per depends on the plays called, blocking, etc.

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

PAskinsfan17

Hit it on the head. Any QB picked should be mod or late, if at all. You can pick em and kick em. A good GM would help. Resigning JC makes complete sense considering the state of the franchise. And look, I always had problems with him, I thought he didn't see the field well. But the truth is, he has shown some maturity, and it's possible he could continue to evolve. That isn't the reason to keep him though. The reason is this team has bigger, more pressing needs if it is going to be built to last. Adding a flashy new QB would just be icing a crappy cake.

Posted by: gconrads | December 15, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

anyone watch the SF offense last night, and think that was what the Redskins looked like the beginning of this year.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

So Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees all lack pocket awareness because of their fumbles on sacks the last two weeks. Genius.

Posted by: geotherm21 | December 15, 2009 10:18 AM

So you really think JC has good pocket pressence? Maybe you don't understand the game, that's fine.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Not only does Zorn need to go, but the WCO does as well.

Washington Redskins are not running the WCO. They try every once in awhile, but the 3-step drop / WR slant, a WCO staple, doesn't work. Either Campbell throws it behind the receiver, or it goes through their hands. Happened 3 times versus Raiders.

What they are running is more like the Joe Gibbs smash-mouth running game. Against the Saints, they were successful throwing the ball deep, coupled with power running plays. Against the Raiders press coverage, they featured more crossing routes and swing passes to the running backs.

I'm not a WCO expert, but it appears to me that Campbell is not a WCO QB, the line is not a WCO line, and a good chunk of the recieving corps is are not WCO-type receivers.


Oh, and the Redskins need to pick up a running back in the offseason. Much as I like Ganther, he's not big enough.

Posted by: dpc2003 | December 15, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

twisi

"I'll agree his issues are with the deep ball, but with the short and intermediate routes I think his accuracy is fine."


And here we are.....in agreement.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2:

You act like it's a simple swap, one WCO coach for a better WCO coach. Well it's not that simple. There would be new terminology, new plays, and new coaches. You can't pick up where you left off with all of those changes.

IMO, changing coaches and therefore the offense when we're obviously improving, that would be stupid.

Posted by: REXskins | December 15, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Zorn couldn't do that, why would you want to keep a guy that sucks as a game day manager and can't out coach a retired bingo caller?????

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 10:07 AM

Jack, He's not a "retired bingo caller." He's a retired offensive coordinator. Do you understand the difference?

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

First the basic principles of the WCO are the same across the board, hence the retired coach who was a bingo caller (that would be what I meant) was able to come in and despite admitting not knowing the personnel or the terminology within our system was able to immediately kick start the offense and provide an instant and dramatic improvement over Zorn. Sure they may need to learn some new terms if a new WCO coach comes in, but the tenants of the system would be the same and it would be a lot easier a transition than scrapping it all and learning a whole new system. Regardless, there is no reason to keep Zorn. Even if you like the way things are going Zorn is nothing but dead weight, if you like the way things are then fire Zorn make somebody in house the head coach and let Sherm be OC. Zorn adds nothing but annoying press conferences where he sound as intelligent as Forest Gump.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

How about a real free safety?

Posted by: DikShuttle | December 15, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

"What's JC17's YPA?"

His YPA is 7.4, above that of Kurt Warner, Joe Flacco, Carson Palmer, Matt Ryan, Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, and Matt Hasselbeck.

The only knock on Campbell is his W-L record. And if you're one that believes a QB wins and loses games solely based on his own performances and abilities, then that's your ticket to criticism. I personally believe football to be a team sport.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

"Only knock" meaning statistics-wise.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Of what? I'd buy the win-loss record in tennis or golf. But the win-loss record depends on the rest of the team more than it does on JC. And the yards per depends on the plays called, blocking, etc.

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 10:26 AM


Finally, something we can agree on.

Using a W/L record for a QB is one of the most overrated, misplaced stats in all of professional sports. It's nothing short of insane to attribute a team record to an individual player. By that logic, Drew Brees was mediocre last year because his team was 8-8. His TEAM was mediocre because the defense sucked and so did the ground game. But he threw for over 30 TDs and 5,000 yards. Hardly mediocre.

When I judge a QB, I look at completion % and TD/INT ratio. Speaks a great deal to decision making and overall efficiency. Anything else is subjective.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

At the end of the day there are basically two choices. You vote: 1) Keep JC, Vinney and the Z-man, have continuity and see what happens. 2) Blow the whole thing up, start another new system (Danny's choice).

Posted by: Keyskonnection | December 15, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Firing Zorn....OK fine, but keep the Sherm brothers and promote someone to headcoach....maybe Danny Smith, the guy looks like a maniac on the sidelines and I like that.

And getting rid of Jason Campbell would be an absolutely terrible move.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 15, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

So you really think JC has good pocket pressence? Maybe you don't understand the game, that's fine.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 10:29 AM

I dunno if you've been watching lately because you keep referring to the beginning of the season to support your position. I do recall over the last

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

joeboggs never mind. I changed my mind on getting into this debate.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Finally, something we can agree on.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 10:37 AM

Yeah! There was another one two years ago, but I forget now what it was.

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

"...the Redskins need to pick up a running back in the offseason. Much as I like Ganther, he's not big enough..."

Can a small back succeed?

Let's see:

Quinton Ganther Height: 5-9 Weight: 214


Maurice Jones-Drew Height: 5-7 Weight: 208

Chris Johnson Height: 5-11 Weight: 200 Age: 24

Michael Turner Height: 5-10 Weight: 244

Adrian Peterson Height: 6-1 Weight: 217


No big bruisers in this group.

They all do have one thing in common: speed and power.

The question is, does Ganther have both?

We got three more games to find this out.

If Ganther can run on the jints and 'boys, he can run on anybody.


Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

joeboggs never mind. I changed my mind on getting into this debate.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 10:43 AM |

That's okay, there's plenty of other guys looking for an excuse to take your place. Not me, but they're all around here.

Posted by: League-Source | December 15, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Are (most) of you nuts? It was the Raiders!!They were at best somewhat respectable with Gradkowski but horrid with one of the biggest busts in NFL history, Jemarcus Russell.

Do you have amnmesia? Did you forget about ALL the other games that we STUNK?

This team must change dramatically including a new GM, Coach and QB. If after a couple of decent games you think this team should basically stay intact, wait until nest year when we are 2 and 5 as we storm to a 4 and 12 season.

Jason Campbell is a very good guy and a class act but is NOT a potential playoff and Super Bowl winning QB.

WAKE UP!!!!

Posted by: jshavatt | December 15, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

If Ganther can run on the jints and 'boys, he can run on anybody.

Agreed, moe. I think you bring him back, he's shown some speed, wiggle, and power, and that to me earned him the right to come back next year....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Guess there's one QB the skins won't be drafting next April.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4741959

Posted by: skinswest | December 15, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Let's not get too giddy about JC and this offense. Sure we are playing well right now but would we go into next year feeling strong about JC being the starter. His pocket pressence is still awful and if it were not for the line improvement he would be the same QB he was against the Chiefs.

Posted by: joeboggs

Oh nonsense. He's better because the system is better, because the second rounders who didn't do squat for a year and a half have learned their position and because the line is better. And surprise, when the passing works, the running game is better.

NO QB is any good with sieve like blocking, Zorn calling his plays, and only about 10% of the offense in.

Is he a franchise QB? Maybe not. But what he has been doing lately is no fluke.

Posted by: TheCork | December 15, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

"Are (most) of you nuts? It was the Raiders!!"

No, it was also the Saints and Cowboys. Shocker, but if we had even a semi-clutch kicker, we'd be sitting at 6 wins right now, one game behind both the Giants and Cowboys, both of whom we play in upcoming weeks.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is a very good guy and a class act but is NOT a potential playoff and Super Bowl winning QB.

WAKE UP!!!!

Posted by: jshavatt | December 15, 2009 10:47 AM

Well said. Finally someone with logic.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

If Ganther can run on the jints and 'boys, he can run on anybody.

Agreed, moe. I think you bring him back, he's shown some speed, wiggle, and power, and that to me earned him the right to come back next year....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Agree the kid looks good. But he benefits from an OL that is bigger, younger and better, and from defenses that, all of a sudden have to respect the pass.

Right to come back next year? Hell, yeah. Not even an issue.

Posted by: TheCork | December 15, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Are (most) of you nuts? It was the Raiders!!They were at best somewhat respectable with Gradkowski but horrid with one of the biggest busts in NFL history, Jemarcus Russell.

Do you have amnmesia? Did you forget about ALL the other games that we STUNK?

This team must change dramatically including a new GM, Coach and QB. If after a couple of decent games you think this team should basically stay intact, wait until nest year when we are 2 and 5 as we storm to a 4 and 12 season.

Jason Campbell is a very good guy and a class act but is NOT a potential playoff and Super Bowl winning QB.

WAKE UP!!!!

Posted by: jshavatt | December 15, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

I completely agree. However, I think there are too many needs to worry about replacing Campbell right now. Eventually, as in 2011, absolutely must be done. But our list of issues is as follows:

1) Coach - any decent coach would have this team in the hunt.
2) GM - there is some young talent on this team and Vinny has to get credit for that, however, his team building philosophy has eroded this franchise at the core (the lines) for years and has guaranteed mediocrity at best.
3) OLine
4) RB - Rock/Betts/Ganther/Mason have all shown most of the early season issues were on CP, and that collection isn't good enough to carry a team, we need to find either a new franchise back or a legit speed back (spiller type guy not Alridge type) to work in a committee with Ganther/Mason.
5) DBs - we need another legit corner and a starter at FS.
6) LB - we need a true SLB so Orakpo can be a full-time DE where he belongs.
7) QB - we need a QB who is more accurate, reads defenses better, and is good in the clutch.

That's a very long list. For now, I'm ok with JC who is mobile, has a big arm, is tough, and can give you flashes of very great play. He won't win you many games in the clutch, but its very very rare that his play directly costs you a game. For now, I say attack the rest of the list first.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is a very good guy and a class act but is NOT a potential playoff and Super Bowl winning QB.

Posted by: jshavatt | December 15, 2009 10:47 AM


Gotta love the "it was just Oakland!" crowd...Campbell looked pretty damn good against the Saints (even outplayed Brees in that game), even though the D-coordinator knows him inside and out. Dude had only 4 games where he posted below an 85 QB rating. If you've got a team around him, that's more than enough to win.

Pick another problem, cuz it ain't QB.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell is a very good guy and a class act but is NOT a potential playoff and Super Bowl winning QB."

You've got to have a team around you that can GET to a Super Bowl before you can say this.

Or put differently...

How the hell can you KNOW this?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | December 15, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

im happy the Skins won and everything, but lets not let the bright light of beating the worst franchise in football blind us

rabach is terrible and he has got to go, ive mentioned this for well over a year.... and for the sake of stability ill say it again

rabach sucks and the Skins need a Center, it's a very important position on the field and moving forward i would like to see a significant upgrade there

Posted by: retroskins14 | December 15, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

So you really think JC has good pocket pressence? Maybe you don't understand the game, that's fine.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse
---------------------------------------

Classic misdirection and attack on the messenger.

No one said JC had goood pocket presence. You said he had bad awareness based on a fumble against the Giants. The counter examples of Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Drew Brees were all presented to shoot that supposition in the foot - strip fumbles do not indicate lack of awareness.

There is no evidence to suggest that JC is above or below average in 'pocket presence'.

His line and RB were sub-par the first half of this season and the latter half of last season, the coaches were keeping what appear to be play-makers on the sideline, and there were apparent pre-snap issues. That is not a recipe for success.

But apparently none of those things factor into 'understanding the game' for us morons, eh?

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 15, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is a very good guy and a class act but is NOT a potential playoff and Super Bowl winning QB.

WAKE UP!!!!

Posted by: jshavatt

They used to say that about Eli Manning. Also used to say Peyton could never win the big one.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 15, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

who weren't allowed do squat for a year and a half have learned their position....


fixed it for you cork...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

But our list of issues is as follows:

1) Coach - any decent coach would have this team in the hunt.
2) GM - there is some young talent on this team and Vinny has to get credit for that, however, his team building philosophy has eroded this franchise at the core (the lines) for years and has guaranteed mediocrity at best.
3) OLine
4) RB - Rock/Betts/Ganther/Mason have all shown most of the early season issues were on CP, and that collection isn't good enough to carry a team, we need to find either a new franchise back or a legit speed back (spiller type guy not Alridge type) to work in a committee with Ganther/Mason.
5) DBs - we need another legit corner and a starter at FS.
6) LB - we need a true SLB so Orakpo can be a full-time DE where he belongs.
7) QB - we need a QB who is more accurate, reads defenses better, and is good in the clutch.

That's a very long list. For now, I'm ok with JC who is mobile, has a big arm, is tough, and can give you flashes of very great play. He won't win you many games in the clutch, but its very very rare that his play directly costs you a game. For now, I say attack the rest of the list first.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 10:58 AM

Completely agree. Unfortunately I don't think #2 will change at season's end.

Posted by: skinswest | December 15, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Another instant classic from Blache:

Blache says Fletcher is punished for having class
Posted by Michael David Smith on December 15, 2009 10:50 AM ET
In 12 NFL seasons with the Rams, Bills and Redskins, London Fletcher has never missed a game, hasn't missed many tackles, and has generally been one of the league's more reliable middle linebackers.

But he hasn't been to a Pro Bowl, and Redskins defensive coordinator Greg Blache says it's time for that to change. And, according to Blache, Fletcher is punished by Pro Bowl voters because he conducts himself the right way.

"The thing that hurts London is that he doesn't act like an idiot every time he makes a tackle," Blache said in an interview with the Washington Post. "He doesn't bring that attention to himself. He's a football player, not a showman. He takes great pride in his football, and he has great respect for the game. He acts the way a professional is supposed to act, and consequently, it's cost him."

Blache feels so strongly that Fletcher belongs in the Pro Bowl that he spoke with the media for the first time in more than two months to tell the Post that Fletcher, at age 34, is having his best year. And to say that Fletcher should be rewarded -- not overlooked -- for the way he acts on the field.

"There are some guys who don't show respect for the game but bring this look-at-me attitude to it, and strut and dance and prance every time they do something that they're paid to do. And that gets people's attention," Blache said. "That doesn't mean you're a great player; it means you take attention away from the unit and put it on yourself. So London has been hurt over the years by his own character, his own professionalism, his class, his own respect for the game."

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is a very good guy and a class act but is NOT a potential playoff and Super Bowl winning QB.

WAKE UP!!!!

Posted by: jshavatt

They used to say that about Eli Manning. Also used to say Peyton could never win the big one.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 15, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

--------------------------------------

Rypien would know something about QBs who aren't known for accuracy. Rypien had the opposite problem tho. Couldn't complete anything less than 40 yards.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 15, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

But apparently none of those things factor into 'understanding the game' for us morons, eh?

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 15, 2009 10:59 AM

Never ever would I call anyone a moron, so easy there. You have your opinion and I have my opinion on JC. I just look at the total package, not just 2-3 games in December.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"There are some guys who don't show respect for the game but bring this look-at-me attitude to it, and strut and dance and prance every time they do something that they're paid to do. And that gets people's attention," Blache said. "That doesn't mean you're a great player; it means you take attention away from the unit and put it on yourself. So London has been hurt over the years by his own character, his own professionalism, his class, his own respect for the game."

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 11:05 AM

LL are you listening to what your coach is saying?

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

really tired of all the JC detractors. Like most I've been tough on him and times but this kid has shown that he deserves to lead this team into the future. Draft Russell Okung, find an eventual starting OG in Round 2 or 3, go RB, S, C in mid-late rounds. Thru 13 games he's 13th best passer rating with a committe of RBs and 7 different starting O-line combinations (and I'd bet has been hit/hurried in Top 5). Give him a stud LT and, as importantly, some continuity and see what he can do.

If we tender him the hightest level, it's a win-win...either he stays and we have a proven starter who is tough and of good character, or someone matches the offer and we get a 1st and 3rd. Of course Snyder/Vinny will probably let him walk and draft Clausen.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 15, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

listening to Sally jenkins on Kornheiser's show...god I hate this women, horrible negative writer and worse on radio, I think she hates men, especially successful men.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 15, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

So you really think JC has good pocket pressence? Maybe you don't understand the game, that's fine.

Posted by: joeboggs

Actually I do since I played and coach now. Your definition of pocket presence makes no sense - when Osi beats Heyer and comes in clean from the backside before your mental countdown says he should be getting close it isn't due anything other than a good play by Osi. You know that a pro offense gameplans differently for each defense it faces right?

Posted by: geotherm21 | December 15, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

LL are you listening to what your coach is saying?

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

No kidding, I've often waited for Fletch to run over and knock LL on his butt during one of his preening sessions for a tackle 11 yards down field. It would be awesome!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Never ever would I call anyone a moron, so easy there. You have your opinion and I have my opinion on JC. I just look at the total package, not just 2-3 games in December.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse
----------------------------------------

So then we agree but differ in scope: my 'total package' approach includes the 53 other roster spots, coaches, and FO, and not just 1 player.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 15, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

the next skins rb just got signed to the roster, this will be a first:

Gano ran a 4.4 40 and had a 33-inch vertical while in high school

give this guy some carries...he can score the td, and kick the extra point...its like a fantasy football dream come true...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

If we tender him the hightest level, it's a win-win...either he stays and we have a proven starter who is tough and of good character, or someone matches the offer and we get a 1st and 3rd. Of course Snyder/Vinny will probably let him walk and draft Clausen.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 15, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

That's been my feeling and argument for a while, if somebody wants him that badly then ok, but for now he's good enough....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

LL are you listening to what your coach is saying?

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

I think someone got to him.

There were none of the usual LL celebrations against the Raiders. Hopefully, that wasn't a one game thing.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 15, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

it's good to see London Fletcher getting some respect, ive liked the guy since the 1st half of the 1st game he played as a Skin, after letting up a late touchdown to miami to go down 7-6 at half, London apparently goes into the locker room and goes crazy on the team, a team with Sean Taylor and the bold man got respect an the team responded and the man can back it up, i absolutely love how the guy plays and reps the Skins out there

Posted by: retroskins14 | December 15, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

If we tender him the hightest level, it's a win-win...either he stays and we have a proven starter who is tough and of good character, or someone matches the offer and we get a 1st and 3rd. Of course Snyder/Vinny will probably let him walk and draft Clausen.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 15, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

A question about the RFA tender. Say instead of two draft picks you want a pick and a player , can a team negotiate that compensation or are you contracted only to recieve draft picks?

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell is a very good guy and a class act but is NOT a potential playoff and Super Bowl winning QB."


Campbell is in the mold of Delhomme, Dilfer, Greise, Stabler, Grossman et al.

In other words, he may not be the best, but at his best he, a running game, special teams, and a strong defense can get to the promise land.

You can sit around all day waiting for Joe Monatana to fall out of the clouds if you want.

Or: draft some kid and spend four years waiting for him to learn what the league is all about.

Me?: I'll take Campbell's medium range passing game, fashion an offense around him, make sure my defense is stout, play special teams, and make a December run.

There's a team in Philly built that way right now.

And that team--not one guy--will get to the Super Bowl against the Colts.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Actually I do since I played and coach now. Your definition of pocket presence makes no sense - when Osi beats Heyer and comes in clean from the backside before your mental countdown says he should be getting close it isn't due anything other than a good play by Osi. You know that a pro offense gameplans differently for each defense it faces right?

Posted by: geotherm21 | December 15, 2009 11:12 AM

It is also on the QB to know not to leave a ball hanging down low and to get rid of it, or pull it in and run.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

There were none of the usual LL celebrations against the Raiders. Hopefully, that wasn't a one game thing.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 15, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Its tough to celebrate while chasing but not tackling McFadden and Miller. You can't preen over what you can't cover....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

There's a team in Philly built that way right now.

And that team--not one guy--will get to the Super Bowl against the Colts.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 11:18 AM

The Saints moved? j/k

Posted by: skinswest | December 15, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

A question about the RFA tender. Say instead of two draft picks you want a pick and a player , can a team negotiate that compensation or are you contracted only to recieve draft picks?

Posted by: TWISI

----------

Yes you can negotiate for a player, if both teams agree.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

A question about the RFA tender. Say instead of two draft picks you want a pick and a player , can a team negotiate that compensation or are you contracted only to recieve draft picks?

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

don't know the legalities of it but I do know its never been done. I think you have to take only the picks though because technically the player isn't under contract so he's not a "trade able" commodity.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

London is a tackling machine, the man is all business and it's a shame he hasn't made the pro bowl.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 15, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Its tough to celebrate while chasing but not tackling McFadden and Miller. You can't preen over what you can't cover....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

ok, that's 2 maybe 3 plays out of the entire game.

He also had an INT, Forced Fumble, and made a few good tackles.

On another note Reed Doughty is slow, Kareem Moore should be seeing more time at FS.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 15, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

skinswest

"The Saints moved? j/k"

Most folks hope for a "Perfect Team Super Bowl"

Which means that won't happen.

The iggles have the corners and playmakers on offense to go after team Brees in the playoffs.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Its tough to celebrate while chasing but not tackling McFadden and Miller. You can't preen over what you can't cover....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

ok, that's 2 maybe 3 plays out of the entire game.

He also had an INT, Forced Fumble, and made a few good tackles.

On another note Reed Doughty is slow, Kareem Moore should be seeing more time at FS.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 15, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

it was a joke

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

zj, I think the pats did it last year with cassell, I think they tendered him at the highest, and ended up with a 2nd, and threw in Vrable to boot...I could be wrong...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

zj, I think the pats did it last year with cassell, I think they tendered him at the highest, and ended up with a 2nd, and threw in Vrable to boot...I could be wrong...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

I think they used a franchise tag and the reason they let him go for a 2nd rounder was because they were very happy to get rid of his 15 million dollar salary.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 15, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

it was a joke

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

guess I didn't read it that way because what you said was true. Landry couldn't cover McFadden.

All I'm saying is, I'd take the LL that showed up against the Raiders over what he was doing as a Free Safety any day.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 15, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

The pats tagged Cassel, it was not a RFA tender. Because the tender still means that the player isn't "signed" he has the right to negotiate with other teams and if he gets an offer we have the right to match, if he doesn't he can accept the slotted tender amount and sign (at which point we can trade him) or he can not sign and not play. but you can't negotiate a trade until he is signed.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

beeps guys.

And thanks for the input.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Gano ran a 4.4 40 and had a 33-inch vertical while in high school

give this guy some carries...he can score the td, and kick the extra point...its like a fantasy football dream come true...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 15, 2009 11:14 AM


If he can tackle, he'd be perfect. Imagine that guy running downfield and blowing up the returner on kickoffs!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 15, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | December 15, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

agreed, and hopefully he won't be singled up in coverage anymore either.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

A question about the RFA tender. Say instead of two draft picks you want a pick and a player , can a team negotiate that compensation or are you contracted only to recieve draft picks?

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse
----------------------------------

If they wanted to negotiate something like that, than they would have to have player sign the tender and then agree to be traded, I believe.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 15, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

great article about rabach... oh yeah, there was no article...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | December 15, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

All Campbell did was beat the Raiders with JaMarcus Russell at QB. Everyone beat the Raiders when he was QB!!! We cannpt forget the rest of the season.. and for the rest of the season he played for the most part poorly.. Besides a new Head Coach is coming with a new system.. Cut Campbell lose and start fresh with a new QB (either draft or check FA market maybe someone like David Carr). Campbell has 3 games left with the Redskins and counting...

Posted by: sovine08 | December 15, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

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