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Redskins Have Some Cap Wiggle Room

Let's take just a moment or two away from our discussion of the season opener to look at the Redskins' salary cap situation. I spoke Saturday with a longtime league official who studies the numbers and he told me the Redskins are $5 million under the $127 million salary cap.

The Redskins have a little flexibility to sign a high-profile player if one unexpectedly were to become available, which occurred last season when the Oakland Raiders released cornerback DeAngelo Hall. And Washington has plenty of wiggle room to bring in multiple still-unsigned free agents if injuries or other unforeseen circumstances occur.

Some reporters are really into the details of the salary cap and how player contracts fit into the system each season. My buddy and former partner, the TV star, was great with that stuff. He loved delving into the numbers and learning about the details of long-term deals.

The cap stuff doesn't interest me as much. Don't get me wrong; there are things I need to know about contracts and the cap to do my job effectively. It's just that I'm not as well versed in all of it as some out there claim to be. Fortunately for me, however, I know how to pick up the phone, and it's always helpful to have well-informed sources. (They've requested anonymity because they're not authorized to reveal salary cap information.)

In calling around about the Redskins' cap situation, I learned a few interesting things. We've known for some time that running back Clinton Portis received a huge payday when he signed his renegotiated deal in March 2008. But I didn't know Portis became the league's highest-paid player at his position, based on how contracts are calculated for determining that sort of thing.

Portis received a signing bonus of $9,325,500 as part of his deal that runs through 2013, league sources said. He has a cap number of a little more than $6.17 million this season but his base salary is only $745,000 because his signing bonus was spread over the length of the contract. Portis is scheduled to receive a $500,000 roster bonus and a workout bonus of a little more than $7,000.

With the uncertainty about the league's labor situation, we don't know if there will be a cap in place next season. If there is, Portis will have a huge cap number of almost $10.7 million. Included in that figure is a base salary of almost $7.2 million and another $500,000 roster bonus.

According to the language in Portis's contract, the Redskins have the right to convert the base salary and roster bonus to a signing bonus, which I would expect them to do. That way, they could again spread out the bonus money on the books and, to gain more cap space, extend Portis's deal and lower his cap number.

Hall could have become a free agent after last season, but the Redskins gave him a big deal to stay with them, making the former Virginia Tech star the league's fifth highest-paid corner. Unlike Portis, Hall will receive much of his money this season in his base salary, which is $5 million. He also has a $15 million option bonus in his deal.

Hall has a cap number of a little more than $5.3 million this season. It increases to $6.8 million in 2010 and $12.5 million during the final year of the agreement in 2014.

Chris Cooley is No. 6 among the league's top-paid tight ends. He has a high workout bonus of $100,000 in each of the remaining five seasons of his contract and a cap number of a little more than $3 million this season.

Quarterback Jason Campbell, still working under his rookie contract, has a base salary of almost $2.86 million. A Pro Bowl selection would earn Campbell a $250,000 bonus. This is the final year of his contract.

Left tackle Chris Samuels - a Pro Bowler and the Redskins' top offensive lineman - is just outside the top 10 money earners among NFL tackles.

Coming in at No. 11, Samuels received a $3 million signing bonus when he agreed to renegotiate his deal, clearing cap space, in February to assist the team in its effort to sign defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth. Although Samuels has a relatively low base salary of $2 million, his cap number for 2009 is almost $7 million because of almost $5 million in prorated money.

And any look at the Redskins' cap situation wouldn't be complete without at least a mention of Haynesworth - the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history. The Redskins guaranteed Haynesworth $41 million in a contract that could be worth as much as $115 million based on performance.

Haynesworth received a $5 million signing bonus and also has a $21 million option bonus in his package. He has a base salary of $6 million this season and a cap number of a little more than $7 million.

Interestingly, Haynesworth, who received a tad more than $7,000 to work out at Redskins Park in the offseason, has no more workout bonuses in the remainder of his deal. He did participate in workouts at the complex in the offseason. Had Haynesworth failed to report for workouts, he would have received $250 less in his base salary, according to his contract.

By Jason Reid  |  September 14, 2009; 10:00 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: A Dubious Feat for Fletcher

Comments

FIRST of all, don't panic.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

so long.....and thanks for all the fish

Posted by: jonthefisherman | September 14, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

not sure what the relevance of the cap post given what transpired yesterday....no-one out there to sign, who'd be worth it.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Wow - game on in the books and we're examining cap room for next season??!! Not that you're wrong, Mr. Mayor -- you're right. But SJK that hurts.

From previous thread:
not to add more fuel to the fire, well.. ok.. EXACTLY to add more fuel to the fire, did anyone else notice the AWESMOE kickers the CowPatties picked up this offseason???!!!

Vinnie, wtSJK?! If these guys are around why don't you SCOUT THEM?! You have all that $$ - use it to locate talent instead of spinning your choices as valid!

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

well that's great. But who is worth signing right now? Apart from Jeff Garcia for the veteran minimum.

Posted by: brian58 | September 14, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

game 'one'.. not ..'on'..

m'bad.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Couple of thoughts on the game:
Positive
1. Run defense was stout until they were worn out at the end. Fletcher laying the hurt on Jacobs did my heart good. And I think his 18 tackles points to Haynesworth doing his job.
2. Special teams looked pretty good. I was seriously worried about STs coming out of the preseason, but I think we're fine there and Rock even had a good return.
3. ARE in the slot is a GOOD THING. It would be even better if we had somebody playing the flanker. (Where the $%^$ was kelly?)

Negative
1. 3rd and 8, giants showing blitz to the right side. JC is at the line changing the play....... yes ...... he's reading the defense and switching into something that will work....... snap....... betts into the teeth of said blitz. straight tard, and the most blatantly terrible play of the day (outside the OSI sack strip TD)
2. Play-caling. Enough said.
3. Laron Landry needs to stop acting like he's playing Madden. I'd like to see him breakdown, chop his feet, and make a sound tackle. Sure, he's flying around, but to what end? Missing guys? Dirty 30 really needs work still, and by now, I'd expect him to be getting it. His play is truly confounding. He's got all the physical tools, just none of the common sense needed. People need to stop using his name in the same sentence with Polamolu or Reed (as Joey T did this morning). Landry does not impress to this point.

Rams next week. Things should look a little better next monday.

Posted by: braker19cleartheline | September 14, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I know that JC17 didn't have a good game, but I had low expectations of him anyway. Put things in perspective: We lost by 6 pts on the road to a team that is probably the class of the division right now. There are some positive things to take away from this game.

1) Pass protection was pretty solid for the most part. The Osi sack/fumble/recovery/TD play was on JC17.

2) Our short yardage run D looks very good. I can't remember the last time we stonewalled a team running the ball at the goal line on 4th down.

3) Randle El looks to be very productive in the slot.

4) Chris Cooley looks like he's primed for a big year.

This game came down to a few plays that shouldn't have happened. The Manningham TD was the result of inexcusably poor tackling, and the Osi TD was the result of a QB not stepping up into a gigantic, beautifully protected pocket. These are things that happen on the road in a hostile environment. These are things that good teams can and will correct. The question is whether the Skins are a "good" team.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

So I'm curious, what excuses do we have for JC now?????

I have been holding out hope that he still might be the guy, but any qb who checks to an up the gut run on 3rd and 8 down two scores in the second half of a game when they see an up the middle blitz either doesn't know the reads, is scared, or has already conceded the game......all of which is unacceptable....I'm not even going to bring up the INT thrown 3 yards after the line of scrimmage when you're in FG range and have a clear path to a first down right in front of you or the terrible deep pass to Moss, or the pass behind Moss on a crucial late 3rd down or the horrible clock management by a 4th year starter.....oh wait....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse


and Bean get those posts in fast, thanks to Bradshaw you got 3 months of blogging left and then you gone! Hopefully along with JC and Zorn, Shanahan in 2010!

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

no-one out there to sign, who'd be worth it.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:11 AM

Jeff Garcia's one possibility.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

so long.....and thanks for all the fish
Posted by: jonthefisherman | September 14,


Looks like JZ modeled his play calling on the randomness of the infinite improbability drive & just hoped for the best. Maybe the problem was JC forgot his towel.

Posted by: will_ga | September 14, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

no-one out there to sign, who'd be worth it.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:11 AM

Levi Jones?

Posted by: Original_etrod | September 14, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Culprit #1: Playcalling. Campbell's first traditional drop back came after 20 minutes of the game clock had expired. First 2 drives: Portis run; Randle El reverse; Portis run; Cooley screen; punt; Portis run; Portis run; Portis run; punt. By the time the next play had been called for the Redskins, the Giants had already had 3 full field drives, 28 plays, over 16 minutes in Time Of Possession, and 10 points. Campbell was forced to play come-from-behind before he was even introduced to the game.

Culprit #2: Campbell. Two horrid mistakes on the sack/fumble and INT (with an assist from Moss on that pick). A third really bad mistake on the audible to Betts. That can't happen, plain and simple. Having said that, aside from those 3 plays, the passing game was actually highly efficient, with Campbell connecting on 73% of his passes, and getting the ball down the field with 8.1 yards per attempt. Why it took so long to turn to this aspect, I have no idea.

Culprit #3: The defense, particularly the secondary. The Giants started the game with drives of 12 plays, 10 plays, and 6 plays, and burned more than 16 minutes off the clock. Manningham scored his TD on nothing more than awful defensive work. The defense got tired at the end of the game, but they have nobody else but themselves to blame for being gassed. You can't control the clock if your defense can't get off the field starting on the opening kick.

Culprit #4: The run game. Portis opened the game with a 34 yard rush. After that, he finished with 28 yards on 15 carries. That's less than 1.9 yards per carry for the rest of the game. That's beyond abysmal. The offensive line was absolutely mauled on the ground. There is no other description for that.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

jc didn't have a great game, but he didn't play poorly either....stop harping on that one play he checked down too, thats just grasping at straws to me....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

A cap post? Should have filed this one under "Wednesday"

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I'm going to invest hope that McNabb will get PO'd when they want to keep Vick in the game over him & we'll end up with him somehow... though long term that's obviously not a solution...

And Will, you're right - there's entirely too much Xaphod Beeblebrox (sp?) on this squad.

..of course, that makes us.. who... Marvin?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

So the quote on ZORN in this mornings TIMES-DISGUST reads, "...There was a lot of chipping verbally, a lot of things going on, and we became DISTRACTED."

To which I immediately retorted to myself, "Oh, bull-shyt."

After reading the article, I made a mental note that ZORN was beginning to distance himself from his q-back. Last year he had JASON's back. This season not so much. It's going to be a rocky edition of the JASNO and JIMMY show.

But don't lay everything at the feet of CAMPBELL. A good part, but not all. Coaching should improve things provided they can be improved. Coaching is great, but ultimately a player must be who he is. JC has reached that point. If he can't feel pass-rushers coming, if he can't step up in the pocket when there's no rush inside, or if he drops his arm looking for a secondary receiver and he's been told over and over to overcome all those impediments to great q-back play, then who is JASON CAMPBELL? What has he become when he rolls right, throws a ball down the sideline beyond the line of scrimmage, and then stares in amazement as it's intercepted on a great DB play? I mean what's he thinking?
1- Let's get a penalty for an illegal forward pass?
2- Or maybe throw it on the sideline where only MOSS can catch it while the receiver is smothered by the DB?
3- I've got to make a desperation play to save my job?
Looks like a residual from this spring's off-season, and I opt for door number three.

So to my mind it's not all on JASON.

1- Mr. SNYDER and his management methods are partly to blame for this loss.

2- Mr. CERRATO and his talent selections who STILL can't show up in games that count are partly to blame.

3- Coaching that fails to teach solid play then fails to adapt from series to series during the game is partly at fault.

Here, I can't fault BUGEL for picking RINEHART in the third round of the 2008 draft or not drafting SAMUELS' replacement when they had the chance this year. He's done the best he could with what he's got.

Nor is it BLATCHE's fault when the $50,000,000 man can't play corner in this league. SMOOT is past his prime, and the coaches can't overcome injuries to 'LOS at the CB slot. TRYON, BARNES, WESTBROOK....? plueeze!!!!

Enough, enough. My BP's through the roof, and my nitroglycerin tablet's in the bathroom. Excuse me please.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

I live for reading comments after a loss from the previous day.

bean, the only thing I can suggest re: "Redskins Have Some Cap Wiggle Room", is that soon, especially if the 'skins have a outing like the one yesterday, the BIG talk will be about how they paid Haynesworth and Hall, and how the team still isn't a legit contender.

Reid's cooking something.

You know how everyone likes to say I told you so when it comes to the 'skins and their personnel moves.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

He does have to call a game based on the talent,(or lack thereof) of his "leader".

1965skinsfan

Categorically wrong. Did the Pats change their style of play for Cassel?. Why? Because they have an identity on offense, plus an much more talent offensively than the skins. football isn't an individual concept. It's a team concept. Until the skins figure out what identity they are, they will continue to struggle. For example B Mitch asked C Samuels what type of offense the skins are. He said a smash mouth offense. Really? The WCO a smash mouth offense? Is that why you have a flanker option pass as the SECOND scripted play? Is that why you have 5 WRs active for the game?

Posted by: TWISI | September 14, 2009 10:09 AM

Posted by: TWISI | September 14, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

jc didn't have a great game, but he didn't play poorly either....stop harping on that one play he checked down too, thats just grasping at straws to me....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

What game were you watching? He had a lot more than one bad play! Sack/fumble on him, INT on him, bad deep pass on him, pass behind Moss on 3rd down late on him, the all-time worst audible ever on him, and the clock management that has you burning two timeouts in a game you are trailing in the second half on him.....oh yeah, the results of both those timeouts, no gains.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

psp nicely, and succinctly done. well thought out, and very accurate....could not agree more...stop trying to run....just stop..if the Bills are blowing up the pats running game tonight, do you think for ONE minute that the pats will continue to waste downs trying to run the ball?? Not a single chance of that happening...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

jc didn't have a great game, but he didn't play poorly either....stop harping on that one play he checked down too, thats just grasping at straws to me....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:20 AM

Okay, how about running over the line of scrimmage and throwing an INT? You don't see that play very often.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

So I'm curious, what excuses do we have for JC now?????

I have been holding out hope that he still might be the guy, but any qb who checks to an up the gut run on 3rd and 8 down two scores in the second half of a game when they see an up the middle blitz either doesn't know the reads, is scared, or has already conceded the game......all of which is unacceptable....I'm not even going to bring up the INT thrown 3 yards after the line of scrimmage when you're in FG range and have a clear path to a first down right in front of you or the terrible deep pass to Moss, or the pass behind Moss on a crucial late 3rd down or the horrible clock management by a 4th year starter.....oh wait....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

No doubt he made some mental blunders yesterday, no excuses for those. I readily concede he needs to be more decisive, a little less conservative, and learn to STEP UP IN THE POCKET. Bottom line he's still learning and needs to show development, better understanding and maturity and game mgmt, and soon. I think most everyone agrees on that. HOWEVER...

JC had the 10th best QB rating yesterday. He was 7th in yds per attempt. So to say that he was awful and needs to go, as so many are blogging...that is just foolish IMO. Did anyone happen to see Delhomme, or Cutler?? Two so-called "franchise QBs"?? For the love of Dave Butz, give the kid some time and give him some credit for the good if you're going to (understandably) criticize the bad.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Well, let's just say that we are EXACTLY where we were last year at the same time - same game at New York, same dominant beating. And this is not good...

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

psps, the culprit outline is on point.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

zj, whats his qb rating this morning?

thanks......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Please Jeff Garcia.

Posted by: brian58 | September 14, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Bright spots:

(1) Randle El. He's the real deal in the slot. Looked uncoverable. This is where he was born to play.

(2) Albert Haynesworth. Despite what the completely unknowledgeable Sally Jenkins discerned from the game, Haynesworth completely dominated the interior of the line. That defense held Jacobs to 2.9 yards per carry, the only successful run plays came on the edge of the defense, he was the main cog in the goal line stand, he collapsed the pocket on Carter's sack/fumble, and he collapsed the pocket on Eli's interception. Haynesworth did his job.

(3) Overall flow of the passing game. Don't kid yourself, the ball was moving through the air when we put it to the test. In fact, that was the ONLY source of ball movement following Portis' first run of the game. Zorn spent the entire offseason cleaning up the passing game, and it's taken effect. The passing game, aside from 2 isolated mental errors on the part of Campbell, was effective. Eliminate those 2 mistakes, and you have a highly efficient aerial attack against one of the best defenses in the league.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

The team is not going to find a QB worth the money right now, so I would say stand pat with what we've got. As for where to spend the cap money:

There are some offensive linemen out there, and I would look for an insurance policy out there. A little more depth at offensive tackle might be just waht the doctor ordered.

I saw yesterday repeatedly that the Redskins tried to sweep on the Giants and Portis couldn't get to the corner fast enough. Part of this was great defense by the Giants, and part of this was Portis just isn't as fast as he used to be. I think the team saw this in their offseason hunt for a scatback and it would help them diversify their game calling if they could get that speedster. The team might be better off letting on o-lineman go from their active roster and signing a speed back from a team's developmental roster.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Okay, how about running over the line of scrimmage and throwing an INT? You don't see that play very often.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

Yeah that was straight Tart. If he runs out of bounds there its like 3rd and 4. His legs would have gotten positive yards and another snap. That play was pure bush league.

JC had a bad game, any counter argument is pure spin (cue psp23)

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Beaner, what you game were you watching? That man couldn't orchestrate anything. He had a few good throws but he might as well be Jeff George.

He's not fast enough in his reads nor his reactions. That's not something that will come around at his age. There are rookies who do this better.

We'll stop harping on him when he does something to win a game, I guess, but those persistant problems are more than maddening.

You CAN coach around it, but it doesn't look like this staff will do that.

...hopin' I'm wrong...but they're making it hard to do so.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Of the things to be depressed about, the most depressing is the mistakes. This says that you don't have your head in the game.

1. Three whiffs on a journeyman receiver who scores a TD. Jesus.
2. In one play, your QB runs five yards past the line of scrimmage and throws into a mass of humanity for an INT.
3. Haynesworth jumps offside and converts an iffy FG into a no problemo.
4. Having to call early TOs because of clock managemment problems.
5. Can't throw the ball away on botched reverse option, get sacked, lose 10 yds.
6. QB fails to move up in pocket, gets stripped and the D scores a TD.

Posted by: MrRed | September 14, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Especially Zorn's playcalling.


And for all the Campbell dogging, he damn sure looked more efective in the hurry up... you know, calling HIS OWN plays.

Zorn is a lame duck HC. The clocking is ticking on his suspect arse. He needs to be shown the double doors already.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Everyone keeps calling clock management on the early time outs, but it seemed to me that The Meadowlands was oh, kind of loud there. Not saying that we shouldn't be ready for that, but there were some mitigating circumstances.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

JC had the 10th best QB rating yesterday. He was 7th in yds per attempt. So to say that he was awful and needs to go, as so many are blogging...that is just foolish IMO. Did anyone happen to see Delhomme, or Cutler?? Two so-called "franchise QBs"?? For the love of Dave Butz, give the kid some time and give him some credit for the good if you're going to (understandably) criticize the bad.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

First off not many Panthers fans I know like Delhomme, he's lived off of Smith and that running game for years and after yesterday he probably got himself benched. And JC has been in the league for 5 freaking years now, 4 as a starter. At this point those things can't happen!!!! Can he have a bad game, sure everyone does, can he throw a pick at a crucial time trying to make a play, sure everyone does. Should we still be saying "he needs to be more decisive, a little less conservative, and learn to STEP UP IN THE POCKET. Bottom line he's still learning and needs to show development, better understanding and maturity and game mgmt" after 4 years as a starter NOOOOOOOOOO! I don't care what system you're in that stuff is basic fundamental stuff to the position, there's no excuse. And if you take away his stats from the final drive when the Gints were playing prevent defense since the game was in hand and we had no timeouts left his day was extremely pedestrian. One late drive against a prevent D does not a day of poor play erase.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Reid's cooking something.

You know how everyone likes to say I told you so when it comes to the 'skins and their personnel moves.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 10:24 AM

Good catch.

Posted by: RedCherokee | September 14, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

That said, aside from his JC apologism, psp's game culprits were pretty much right.

Although I find it hard to fault the Defense to much, I mean they can't do it all. You hold a team to 16 points you should be more into than we were. Even Hall, who was garabge, made a play that could have been crucial.

Two keys were the two turnovers we missed on opening drive. Force a fumble that they recover to gain yards (saw that allll last season) and than Rogers stone hands ANOTHER pick six. Both plays would have been monstorous.

That said, they hold to 3, big portis run and then the Zorn brain fart.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you would show Zorn the doors unless you have another head coach lined up to come in, moving Greg Blanche or Danny Smith into the position is not going to work. But if you have big mike or less big mike on the phone you maybe offer them the team.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 14, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

zj, whats his qb rating this morning?

thanks......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse


JC had a bad game, any counter argument is pure spin (cue psp23)

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Enough said, to even try and say he was anything beyond horrendous is somebody with an agenda. He was terrible yesterday all day except for one brief drive against a prevent D that was only rushing 3....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

PSP - You forgot to add that INT to JC17's list. That makes at 4 things because he should have ran on that play for the 1st down. Then he threw the ball 5 yards pass the LOS. And it was an INT.

Wow...

It's early, and I am realizing JZorn isn't an early starter.....He needs 90 minute games and we'd be undefeated.

I'm going back to my old 15-1 prediction...

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

I didn't see much ability to adapt to the ebb & flow of the game. I understand wanting to establish the run but flexibility is a useful tool to have handy.

I thought AH did what we asked him to do and gave us a stronger line. Might want to back away from the buffet & do some cardio tho... I don't recall hearing Orakpo's name much. Was he on the field the whole game?

Posted by: will_ga | September 14, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

The problem w/ the run isn't that we're calling it... it's HOW and WHEN we're calling it.

Nobody is synchronized, the QB doesn't read the D and re-assign blocking. There's no pre-snap movement to draw out the D.

..oh, and Betts looks like doo doo. Told ya so... lol ;-p

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

...AND...

to top it all off, Mrs. Shuttle is in 1st place in the Pick'em...

...ugh...

hehehehe

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

he wasn't horrendous...if he was horrendous, he wouldn't be the 10th rated qb in the league right now. Cutler was horrendous. Delhomme was horrendous.

cl, yeah, how many td's should rogers have at this point?? 2 at least right?? Seattle then yesterday, and I'm sure I'm missing a couple...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Cutler did blow, accept that if Chicago defense holds they win.....

I am willing to gibe JC yet another "next week" b/c my key thinking on the Skins is

"Zorn Blows"

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Cutler did blow, accept that if Chicago defense holds they win.....

I am willing to gibe JC yet another "next week" b/c my key thinking on the Skins is

"Zorn Blows"

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

They both do, but at this point what choice do we have? Signing Garcia isn't an answer and while I think Collins can at least read a blitz make the hot read quickly and get rid of the ball he's not really an answer either so we're stuck with both....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

The playcalling wasn't good especially with Campbell not attempting his first pass in what seemed like forever. After Portis broke the first run Zorn should have gone play-action on the next play.

Campbell made some mistakes but the lack of pocket awareness pisses me off most. Why is he always drifting back instead of stepping up in the pocket or sliding.

Deangelo Hall is terrible. Springs had a lot more heart and made the plays he was suppose to. Ints are great but how many yards and missed tackles did he give up?

Posted by: fj8152001 | September 14, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

beantown

"...not sure what the relevance of the cap post given what transpired yesterday..."

Maybe mistamayor is suggesting that Vinny might cut the entire team and pay fifty-three other guys $1 million dollars a piece to go 6-10.

I mean, what would be the difference...?

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 14, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

4 possible reasons Kelly didn't get the ball:

1. He didn't run crisp routes and was never open.

2. Campbell never threw him the ball even though he was the one read and was open.

3. Zorn never called his number except for one measly play.

4. The Giants blanketed him all day and despite his best efforts, Zorn calling his number, and Campbell looking to get him the ball, he just wasn't open.

I'm going with a 2 and 3 combo pack.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 14, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Enough said, to even try and say he was anything beyond horrendous is somebody with an agenda. He was terrible yesterday all day except for one brief drive against a prevent D that was only rushing 3....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Everyone relax and stop bashing JC and stop panicking...the Giants are a good team that'll win 11-12 games this season and we lost to them on the road. Defense only gave up 16 points, and the offense struggled against what might be the best defensive line in the league. Not shocking. JC had a bad fumble, no doubt, but for the most part was OK...just relax, it wasn't a game we were supposed to win...

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

JC had the 10th best QB rating yesterday. He was 7th in yds per attempt. So to say that he was awful and needs to go, as so many are blogging...that is just foolish IMO.

i'm going to fill in for LH here: STOP IT!!! PLEASE STOP IT!!! he padded his f'ing stats on the final drive when with less than 2 minutes to go, no timeouts, they were down 2 touchdowns!

Posted by: dealer1 | September 14, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

cl, yeah, how many td's should rogers have at this point?? 2 at least right?? Seattle then yesterday, and I'm sure I'm missing a couple...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 10:41 AM

So many to choose from...Pittsburgh last year made me blow a gasket.

Posted by: stevek20147 | September 14, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Dealer,
Its fair to say that most QB's, or at least all on the losing side of every game, have padded their stats with soft 4th Q coverage.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 14, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Not that Zorn will ever try it, but does anyone else notice that JC has looked the most confident as a QB in the hurry up offense?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

jdih, why didn't they open the game in the hurry up?? Why was jc under center, why wasn't he operating the whole game out of the gun....

I'll say it again, with the cb's that the giants had yesterday, to come in with the game plan the team did, was just assinine...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

JC had a bad fumble, no doubt, but for the most part was OK...just relax, it wasn't a game we were supposed to win...

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

That kind of reasoning is sad to me...was it a tough game? sure, its the NFL! We have the talent that if healthy can win 12 games on this roster. The defense gave up 16 points on the road against a division rival and didn't even play that well, that's good enough to win. They gave us the ball on the 12 yard line at a critical point in the game and we do nothing with it, that's not good enough. Our QB and our coach are holding back a roster that if healthy should easily be a playoff team. We can't afford to lose games early when we are healthy that we should be winning, and I'm sorry but I saw nothing yesterday other than the play of Manning vs. JC and the play calling that makes me think the Giant's #1s are better than ours. A 4th year starter with all the physical tools in the world needs to be better than he was yesterday, period. Mental mistakes and basic fundamental football shouldn't be problems at this point and the fact that it is says all we need to say about JC....oh yeah, and Zorn sucks as a play caller.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

To MattyLight....

I think your words are indictment of what this team has truly become... "We were not supposed to win this game" How sad is that we go into a game knowing full well that our chance of victory is slim to none! How in the hell did we get to the point where in our hearts we know a victory would be a miracle and we should EXPECT a loss.

Skins fans are deflated and have become nothing more than apologists... As a life long skins fan it was really hard watching that debacle yesterday. I am sick and tired of everyone making excuses for Campbell he is not the guy it didnt work out... AFTER 4 YEARS STARTING you dont make bonehead decisions like that! He plays to not make mistakes and it is sickening. You could see the Giants in the blitz package and he audibles into a run on 3rd and 8!!!

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Hi Greg, if you remove the last drive against the prevent defense (Campbell 5/6 for 56yds plus 16yds rushing) what does Jason's QB rating look like then? Not so good I think.... Not Delhomme/Cutler horrible (although Cutler at least improved in the second half) but pretty ugly all the same.

Nice to 'see' you guys, sorry it's not in happier circumstances for either of our teams.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

"The Giants blanketed him all day and despite his best efforts,..."

Actually, the 'blanket coverage' was Corey Webster shutting down Santana Moss--all by himself.

For the life of me, I don't get how Moss is not moved around, placed in motion or in double-slot formations, or sent on different routes other than 'fly patterns'.

Any team with a big corner will line him up on Moss split wide and shut him down all year long.

Shouldn't the best receiving option the skins have be put in position to make plays in the same way Randle El was yesterday?

But none of this matters if your starting quarterback plays worse than the rookie alternative in New York who had an excellent day....

...for a rookie.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 14, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

greg, sun came up here in NM as well...

JC did not have an overall bad day. The mistakes he made were costly and he needs more pocket awareness, but overall he did ok.

JZ needs to put the team in position to win games with better playcalling and better use of his talent. Also, if he is not going to use all of the O players he dresses, then he needs to dress more D players. No sense to have Marko active and not give him a chance to learn in a real game. Same for DT and Davis.

This was a very winnable game and there are many positives to take from this game like that we played a very good team at their house and lost by six in spite of our mistakes and bad playcalling.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

I hate losing to the Giants but I'm not all that worried about it, The Giants like it or not are a damn good team. Now if they lose to the Rams THEN I'll hit the panic button

Posted by: skinztattoo89 | September 14, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"What might have been" post...

While watching the Vikings/Browns in the early game on my local FOX affiliate, I couldn't help but think "what if" the Skins hadn't passed on Adrian Peterson in the 1st round of '07? We chose L. Landry instead, and the Vikes then took Peterson with the very next pick.

After watching Landry do nothing particularly special in our loss later in the afternoon, those questions did not go away. Sigh...

Posted by: PDXskin | September 14, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Zorns play calling is very medium

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

rc, good to hear from you, hope all is well.

Not sure what it does to his qb rating, but then lets deal in reality, and not shoulda/coulda/woulda, if my aunt were my uncle, type stuff...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Oh, and "I told you so" about Dante Hall back before training camp.

Get used to seeing that sort of performance from him; he'll catch a few balls - mainly because he gets thrown at way more than most corners because he can't cover or tackle.

Cutting him may turn out to be the first thing Al Davis has been right about in years.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

JC has the 2nd best QB raiting of all the losing QB's from yesterday, for what that's worth.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 14, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Too many times i've seen this exact same game. Weak O. Break but don't break defense.
Zorn looks overmatched at moments. Campbell looked like he was thinking 'life is like a box of chocolate's'.
The Oline was ok in pass pro but it blew in run blocking.
I hate to say this but it looks like Gibbs might have ruined Campbell like Spurrier ruined Ramsey. No progress so far but he looks like he has the same habits. Holding the ball, staring down WR's, slow to get the team to the line.
Defensively, dumb penalties and weak pressure never win games but sure enough the Skins try this tactic every game. Los played good and could have had an INT if it wasn't for his hands'o stone. They can't get off the field and the third downs were ugly.
The Skins will probably come out and whoop the Rams next Sunday and we'll all feel a lot better next Monday. At least that's how the story usually goes...

Posted by: priceisright | September 14, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

curz, yeah, funny how it does that, no matter what....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Exactly, Greg, exactly - the coaches seem to feel that the running game is dominant enough to set up the passing game...it's not

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Is that where we are as skins fans!!??? We know we can only beat the bottom of the barrel teams?? We wait for Sundays against St. Louis so that we can hope for a victory? We admit that we cant contend with the best in our division if that is the case whats the point...

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

BenchCampbell and zjfr2,

Like I was trying to say -- stop overreacting! If you want to mope and whine and sit around with a "sky is falling" mentality be my guest... but just remember, the other guys get paid, too! ANY team, and almost ANY QB is going to struggle against the Giants defensive line! Do you remember how many points the mighty Patriots of a few years ago scored in the Super Bowl? 14! Even Tom Brady had trouble against them. No one is saying JC played great. Give it a break -- your act is tiresome.

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Hi Greg, padded stats is not reality. It's more coulda-woulda-shoulda than ANYTHING else. Otherwise if you follow your approach, Jason would have been THE top-rated QB in the NFL yesterday, if only the Giants had played prevent D all afternoon....

You guys all used to go after Gibbs letting Brunell pad his stats with completions, and even the occasional TD in garbage time. How was this *really* any different?

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

"Zorn's play calling is very medium..."


I think Zorn should let someone else call plays while he manages the team.

The play-calling head coach is a thing of the past.

Kevin Gilbride--the jints coordinator-- had a nice playcalling mix and got the ball to multiple players out of multiple formations.

Zorn should step back and let Sherm call plays.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 14, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Zorn sucks.

After a nice run by who else, Portis (His favorite player), he decides to show him up and calls that dumb reverse flea whatever bs and totally stunts the drive.

True, ARE has to throw that away, but why even call something so stupid in the first place.

If Zorn wanted to bring that mess out, here's what he should've done: WAIT until the team establishes a TEMPO. Something that is much needed with this offense in particular. You don't call that bs in the first quarter especially when this team has a hard time developing tempo on offense.

Fire this assjockey, please?

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Like I said before, Betts and Cartwright should have been cut to allow new young talent into the mix.

We have seen Betts and Cartwrights poker hands and neither one is a winning one.

We played lousy and still the Giants barely beat us. Malcolm Kelly, Delvin Thomas, Marko Mitchell....DOES ZORN HAVE A PLAY CALL FOR THEM, OR ARE THEY JUST AFTERTHOUGHTS. Run them boys down the field and just throw the ball to them.

Is it the scheme that keeps you from calling a basic butt pass play.

I am so sick of seeing the same running play called and the same pass plays to Moss, Randall El, and Cooley.

Moss, Randall El, and Cooley are not Monk, Clark, and Sanders. Our passing game needs to incorporate more players as a main focus until we figure which ones are the most productive.

We cannot continue to force feed Moss, El, Cooley, and Portis. Thats our whole offensive thrust and in case the Redskins have not figured that out, the rest of the League has.

Until we integrate new blood and better play calling, our offense will never achieve any consistency.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 14, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Do you remember how many points the mighty Patriots of a few years ago scored in the Super Bowl? 14! Even Tom Brady had trouble against them. No one is saying JC played great. Give it a break -- your act is tiresome.

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Good point Matty, but it's invalidated by the fact that the Giants learned all they needed to about the 2007 Pats offense when they played them in the last game of the regular season and got torched for THIRTY-EIGHT points.... The Super Bowl in effect was a do-over for the Giants D, in which they rose to the occasion phenomenally.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Our QB and our coach are holding back a roster that if healthy should easily be a playoff team.

zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 11:02 AM

ZJ I'm w/ you to an extent. I think these two aren't communicating well. From JC responses last night on Comcast, I got the impression he wished they had thrown more. If I am JC I'd be asking for the coach to get in the gun and get in rhythm early.

Posted by: TWISI | September 14, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Nitro's kicked in. The heart pain is slowly fading from losing to those suck-holes in N.Y. In relation to ZORN and JASNO - "time's up." I can hear the words ringing in my ears as JEFF GOLDBLUM utters them in the movie "INDEPENDENCE DAY."

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

About Haynesworth. You have taken a 1 gap D line man and made him 2 gap. Teams realize that when you take a great player and schematically limit him, coupled with the fact that you can block his other 10 teammates with 8 players you are in a winning situation.

Posted by: jtrob_1 | September 14, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Is the angst level on high this a.m.?

Quick thoughts from yesterday:
Portis busts one for 30+ on the first play, and then Zorn goes with trickeration on the next play? Yikes. How about lining up and smacking them in the mouth again? Totally unimpressed with the play calling.

Moss totally out of the game mentally after his early scrap.

Love ARE in the slot.

'Whiff' Smoot strikes again.

Posted by: 4-12 | September 14, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"Hi Greg, padded stats is not reality. It's more coulda-woulda-shoulda than ANYTHING else."

Aside from illusion that the Giants were somehow content with letting the Redskins score, even if you take away the final drive, Campbell still completed 70% of his passes for 7.75 yards per attempt.

In the first Q, Campbell went 1 for 1
In the second Q, Campbell went 7 for 10
In the third Q, Campbell went 5 for 7
In the fourth Q, Campbell went 6 for 8

The ball was moving through the air the entire game when it was put to the test. Yes, he made three really awful mistakes (sack/fumble, INT, audible). But acting like he was "horrendous" (as zj opted to put it) is beyond blind criticism. Those mistakes were equally made on the opposite side of the ball with Eli (aside from the audible), but the Giants persevered as a team. QBs make mistakes. If this team needs a perfect QB performance every time it steps on the field, then they will never find what they are looking for.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of Landry, someone commented that they may think LaRon Landry may be overrated...

It's game one, true indeed. But I'd be lying if said I wasn't wondering about that myself.

I still think he could become Polamalu or a Bob Sanders type of safety, but sometimes I do wonder if the dude reputation is just based off his potential and who manned the FS position before him.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Zorn didn't fumble or throw the ball 3 yards past the line of scrimmage. He also did not miss tackles by diving a yard to the right of the ball carrier. Everyone sucked equally

Posted by: skinztattoo89 | September 14, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

"New Message Reported From bin Laden"

MARK McDONALD
Published: September 14, 2009

Apparently, he agrees with Moe:

Put Jason Campbell in the shot gun and let him sling the ball upfield.

Campbell is on a 8 game leash. Todd--stay warmed-up!

Give up the "CP must have the ball.." mentality. Whither Mason and the occasional sweep play?

Put the 'triplets' on the field in some kind of way and get them the ball.

The world is not over because of a loss to the jints. But it will end of the offensive play doesn't improve.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 14, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"Hi Greg, padded stats is not reality. It's more coulda-woulda-shoulda than ANYTHING else"

RC, so what you're saying is that the stats that JC put up yesterday aren't his real stats, and that the NFL is gonna take away the last 5/6 1td? Really?

Padded stats is not reality? What about just stats in general? How do you break them down then?? These stats don't really count because they fall under the guise of 'padded' but these stats do count, because they're unpadded...is that how it works?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Good point Matty, but it's invalidated by the fact that the Giants learned all they needed to about the 2007 Pats offense when they played them in the last game of the regular season and got torched for THIRTY-EIGHT points.... The Super Bowl in effect was a do-over for the Giants D, in which they rose to the occasion phenomenally.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

No sure why it's not invalidated...the Giants played the Pats in the biggest game of the year with everything on the line in that Super Bowl and shut them down. My point is that the Giants defense is capable of shutting down even the most prolific offense...so it stands to reason the Skins (and most teams) are going to have difficulty against them...

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of Landry, someone commented that they may think LaRon Landry may be overrated...

It's game one, true indeed. But I'd be lying if said I wasn't wondering about that myself.

I still think he could become Polamalu or a Bob Sanders type of safety, but sometimes I do wonder if the dude reputation is just based off his potential and who manned the FS position before him.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Landry's problem is that he belives his own hype. A lot of swagger but little game.

Posted by: skinztattoo89 | September 14, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Jeff Garcia. Is he still available? He could be a better fit than Campbell.

Posted by: TBDog | September 14, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

On the bright side we could have landed Cutler! You did want him last year right. How would 4 int's look with that bigh contract? Be careful what you ask for people.

Posted by: jtrob_1 | September 14, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Cmon people, they lost to the 12-4 NFC east Champions in their joint, opening week, when they were fired up and ready to go.

The Redskins didn't go from Clark Kent to Superman when they signed Haynesworth!

Posted by: Jason10 | September 14, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

"I think Zorn should let someone else call plays while he manages the team."

Could not agree more moe...

"ZORN SUCKS"

Could not agree more red....

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

red, yeah, I get that queasy feeling in my gut about landry?? I mean, shouldn't there be more big plays made by LL?? I know he had the deflection yesterday, but he also had an unsportsmanlike conduct as well....shouldn't there be more consistancy from him.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

I don't think signing a free agent QB is the answer. There isn't enough talent out there to warrant this. If Zorn is really unhappy with Campbell, he can put Collins in, but I don't think that is the answer, either. Zorn needs to change his game plans to make this easier for Campbell. He shouldn't have to do this at this point in Campbell's career, but Campbell is what he is and there's no need to say at this point that he's still developing. This might mean play action, designed roll outs, etc.

Zorn has a real opportunity next week with the Rams. They are like a slow motion, under sized version of the Giants. He should poke and prod at them with a few new things to see if he can find a fundamental weakness in the defense. It might be a good confidence builder for Campbell. I wouldn't take them for granted, though. Spags knows the Redskins really well, and he will have a solid game plan coming in.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

My take on the game:

1. The playcalling was simply awful. Who one earth thought it was a good idea to run a draw with ladell betts on second and 21? Really. They might as well have had JC kneel the ball. That was a complete waste of a play and left them with a third and 21. Or a gadget play on the second play of the game, after a 34 yard run. Why not another run. Or a legit pass? At that point in the game there was no need for trickery. Or that flanker screen to Moss, wtf were they thinking?

2. What are they paying the wideouts for? Neither Moss nor Kelly bothered to show up yesterday. Moss ran the wrong route on the one deep ball they threw, and Kelly was completely invisible.

3. Betts dropped a pass where he was wide open in the middle of the field. Didn't zorn make betts the third down back in part because he has "better hands" than portis? I still think betts is a waste of roster space and a terrible runningback. He has yet to disprove my impression.

4. JC made some critical mistakes, but some very promising plays as well. The quick decision on the busted play when the longsnapper hit JC in the ankles was fantastic. The forward pass while three yards over the LOS was stupid. The pick I give a pass because that was an amazing play by webster, who covered a lot of ground and then made a highlight reel catch on the sidelines. JC passed the ball with excellent precision and accuracy all game. He needs to be able to feel teh rush ebtter though, there was no excuse for him not stepping into that HUGE pocket provided him on the Osi Sack/FF/FR/TD.

5. Heyer is still not a very good run blocker. There was no push off right tackle in the run game.

6. D.Hall is exactly what I though he was. A feast or Famine CB with mediocre coverage and tackling abilities. He will make some amazing plays, but he will give up a lot of big ones too. C.Rogers on the other hand had what, one pass thrown at him all game? He made a good judgement call taking the illegal contact penalty rather than letting the receiver pass him on the slant n go. Los should be our #1 corner without a doubt.

7. Haynesworth is a monster on the inside. Every play he was in, he was manhandling his opponents. I never saw him get less than 2 yards of penetration, regardless of how many people were trying to block him. On top of which, the pass rush looked much improved despite the Giants having a phenomenal O-line.

Posted by: ecale25 | September 14, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

(Chanelling my inner Joey T. Sunshine)

I'm staying Medium like CP26.

Learning lesson for Zorn and JC17. These mistakes are correctable.

15-1. Book it.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

red, yeah, I get that queasy feeling in my gut about landry?? I mean, shouldn't there be more big plays made by LL?? I know he had the deflection yesterday, but he also had an unsportsmanlike conduct as well....shouldn't there be more consistancy from him.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

I agree...it almost feels like a lock that LL will commit a dumb personal foul about 4-5 times per season, if not more...he also took some terrible angles at some receivers as well...not his finest moment yesterday for sure

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

4th, I am as well, gonna get this thing corrected this coming weekend, the rams are gonna be just what this team needs....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

psps23:

I expect more from you than your latest post. Don't be an apologist for JASON dude. He can stand on his own two feet. He does run up good stats just like I do day trading in the market. I win 60% of the time on trades. Unfortunately, the 40% losers negate almost all the good stats.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

BenchCampbell and zjfr2,

Like I was trying to say -- stop overreacting! If you want to mope and whine and sit around with a "sky is falling" mentality be my guest... but just remember, the other guys get paid, too! ANY team, and almost ANY QB is going to struggle against the Giants defensive line! Do you remember how many points the mighty Patriots of a few years ago scored in the Super Bowl? 14! Even Tom Brady had trouble against them. No one is saying JC played great. Give it a break -- your act is tiresome.

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

THANK YOU. It does no good to b!tch and overreact about the guy, because if you think he's getting benched after a 90 QB rating against the best team in the NFC, you are insane. I am def worried about some of his decision making but the guy's got a hand cannon, is fairly accurate/mobile, and has a good demeanor. Zorn needs to coach him up, not sit him down on the bench.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Campbell's passing wasn't bad. The problem was he didn't do enough of it. I thought the WCO was supposed to include a fast tempo aerial attack to the wideouts? With a 73%+ completion rate, the passing attack was working.

There was no reason to pass only 26 times. I thought the passing attack would be more creative with all the receiving threats. A total of 3 passes caught by Moss, Kelly, Thomas, Mitchell and Davis? WTF?

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Beanie:

Unfortunately, I think the REDSKINS believe that also. Never under-estimate the opposition. Just come to play.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

The pick by Campbell was not his fault -- it was Santana's. He's got to shield the defender and he didn't do his job on that play. Worst play he made was checking to a run on 3rd and 8

Posted by: SkinsFanNYC | September 14, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

from the Times:

Jason Campbell on Osi Umenyiora's sack/forced fumble/fumble return TD:

"We were trying to get a downfield shot and the defense took it away. I’m waiting for my backs to get out and throw the check down and right when I was going to hit Mike Sellers, Osi made a great play on the ball. As a quarterback, you have to feel it a little more and slide up in the pocket."


Good on him for realizing that.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Alan4:

If you've got the tape, check out the routes the newbies were giving CAMPBELL. And the blocking they were supposed to provide on running plays. DAVIS on the fake punt. He showed. And he's supposed to as a TE.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

No Campbell threw a terrible pass. And over the line of scrimmage. I don't understand that rule. It was an illegal forward pass. It never should have happened. How can they decline that penalty?

Posted by: brian58 | September 14, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

SkinsFanNYC,
Dude, maybe you didn't hear, but Campbell threw that ball three yards past the line of scrimmage. Granted, a receiver should always go for the ball, but you could excuse him just because he thought his quarterback was running with it. It was a stupid pass that would have been a penalty if Moss caught it or knocked it down.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Aside from illusion that the Giants were somehow content with letting the Redskins score, even if you take away the final drive, Campbell still completed 70% of his passes for 7.75 yards per attempt.

In the first Q, Campbell went 1 for 1
In the second Q, Campbell went 7 for 10
In the third Q, Campbell went 5 for 7
In the fourth Q, Campbell went 6 for 8

The ball was moving through the air the entire game when it was put to the test. Yes, he made three really awful mistakes (sack/fumble, INT, audible). But acting like he was "horrendous" (as zj opted to put it) is beyond blind criticism. Those mistakes were equally made on the opposite side of the ball with Eli (aside from the audible), but the Giants persevered as a team. QBs make mistakes. If this team needs a perfect QB performance every time it steps on the field, then they will never find what they are looking for.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 11:21 AM |

Agree. After our back and forth last night I went back to look at his stats and can't fault JC's overall play.

However, he needs to be more aware in the pocket and the mistakes he made were game changers.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

London Fletcher is an absolute beast, is shawn springs hurt again? we need him on the field big time, oh wait........ blache needs to bring more pressure and hall is garbage, that says a lot when you have a pick and take it to the 11, terrible tackling by the secondary, and campbell, oh campbell how i supported you, that was tough to watch, maybe you will get better, but it doesnt look good

wild card...........maybe, but that might be it

Posted by: retroskins14 | September 14, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

On the bright side we could have landed Cutler! You did want him last year right? How would 4 int's look with that bigh contract? Be careful what you ask for people.

Posted by: jtrob_1 | September 14, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

glawrence, I said from the beginning that JC was the 2nd biggest culprit on the loss. Those three mistakes he had were terrible, and they were inexcusable. But they ARE correctable.

It is much, much easier for a QB to recognize his mistake in not stepping up in the pocket (which Campbell did, noticeably, for the rest of the game) than it is to teach a QB to full flow of an offense. Did Campbell have trouble following his progressions? No. Did Campbell have trouble finding the open man? No. Was Campbell inaccurate on the night? No. Everything is in place for a fluent aerial attack, aside from those isolated mental errors that are relatively easily correctable.

Did he play well? No. But it's not nearly as bad as it's being made out to be.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Nothing w/ Campbell will ever be 'fast', it appears...

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

RC, so what you're saying is that the stats that JC put up yesterday aren't his real stats, and that the NFL is gonna take away the last 5/6 1td? Really?

Padded stats is not reality? What about just stats in general? How do you break them down then?? These stats don't really count because they fall under the guise of 'padded' but these stats do count, because they're unpadded...is that how it works?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

No, I think you're wilfully misinterpreting me. You used the stats to 'prove' that Jason had a *statistically* good game and therefore anyone suggesting he played 'horribly' is a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.

As you well know statistics can say whatever you want them to mean. In the game I watched I saw 2 quarterbacks who were fairly close 'statistically' but poles apart in their actual play. I am NO Eli fan but he looked in command of his offense and made plays when he had to - the audible to the pass to Manningham being one of them.

The impression you get of Jason watching him play in a game is that nothing comes easy to him. That may be because the playcalling sucks, but he didn't look any more comfortable under Gibbs or Saunders. At some point you have to admit that he may just be mediocre (in the NFL quality) - he may always need someone else on the offense to make some plays for him to have the great games, but he probably won;t have many days when HE is the guy that does it.

There's no shame in that, we have the same guy in Miami in Chad Pennington, and you can achieve respectability that way, but you probably won;t even win your division that way, let alone a championship.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

rc, the play calling did suck, that was what caused him not to look comfortable...

I'll say this till the cow come home, they should have thrown it 50 times yesterday, all out of the shotgun, all in the hurry up...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

the only question should be why the F do you call a WR reverse option on the 2nd offensive play???

everything that happened after that was because that play put us behind the 8-ball.

how about run left again that worked

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

I for one would like to have a team that I felt could compete on any given Sunday. If you cant play with the best in the league how can you hope to win a Super Bowl? The combination of Zorn/Campbell is abysmal... What will all the apologists be saying if we cant beat St. Louis?

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

glawrence007,

I don't have the tape so I can't review the routes of the newbies. Still I would have never believed that all the newbies + Moss would combine for 3 catches.

Three big catches? No, 3 catches for a total of 12 yards. If the whole point is to put the ball in the hands of your playmakers, it seems to me the coach has got to be a little more creative even if the newbies run routes like newbies.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

One thing you guys gotta admit:

The OLine played better. Especially on pass protection....The JC17 sack/fumble wasn't the line's fault.

DHall - I expect more from him.

Orakpo - Was it me, or was Orakpo playing DE over 80% of the time and Horton moved up to play linebacker? And where did he go? Nonfactor in game one.

Haynesworth - The truth

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

"Agree. After our back and forth last night I went back to look at his stats and can't fault JC's overall play.

However, he needs to be more aware in the pocket and the mistakes he made were game changers.

Posted by: Curzon417"

Thank you, Curz. He definitely needs to eliminate those mistakes, but there are waaay more encouraging signs than are being acknowledged right now.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

This one is ALL on Zorn. I imagine JC was just as stunned as anyone else when Zorn called that El end around pass on what... the 3rd or 4th offensive play?

Sends a real quick message to the boys: we can't just line up and run our offense, we have to resort to a big trick gadget play to catch them sleeping and off guard. Stupid. Just stupid.

Why not go play action if you want to get it down the field? Why not get MK12 a ball early to get him in the game? Why not ATTACK the endzone with your finally healthy receiving corps that is tall enough to win a jump ball? Why run the same play with the same result on 1st and 2nd and goal and then finally throw it away when everyone in the sporting world knew you had to finally take a shot at the endzone? Why not run play action in the redzone? Why not run play action from anywhere on the field at any time in the game?

Zorn's play calling was too cute by half at the exact worst time, unimaginative, uninspiring to his players, and completely unsatisfactory. His team was apparently too excited and wound up to focus and maintain discipline. Stay medium indeed.

And firing him now is NOT the answer. That will just insure an immediate season ending implosion. For better or worse, we are stuck with him this year.

As a lifelong diehard, I HOPE he can figure out how to get his team ready to tackle and not make stupid penalties while calling plays that will actually help the team win the damn game. And I also really, really, really hope he asks Greg Blache why his DBs are lining up in the next county every damn play, too.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 14, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Urlacher out for the year.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

PSP,
Stop quoting Campbell's stats. He was horrible. The Giants didn't blitz for most of the fourth quarter, content to sit on the lead in a soft zone. Jeff George could come out of retirement today and run up those stats. Campbell's performance in the first three quarters is how you should gauge his abilities and he stunk! Audibling to a running play in the middle of an eight man front? Throwing the football while three yards past the line of scrimmage? Not stepping up into the pocket? These are rookie mistakes; not mistakes made by a seasoned veteran. JC's time to develop is over. It's time to face facts that he is as good as he is ever going to be. The Redskins are stuck with him and Zorn needs to find a way to play to JC's strengths, and if he refuses to do that because it would compromise his beloved WCO, then he needs to put Collins in.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

The pick by Campbell was not his fault -- it was Santana's. He's got to shield the defender and he didn't do his job on that play. Worst play he made was checking to a run on 3rd and 8

Posted by: SkinsFanNYC | September 14, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse


Baloney Sandwich.

Jason Campbell was past the line of scrimmage and should have never thrown that pass.

When he did throw it, it was late and Webster had time to come back on the coverage from one of Santana's blindsides and get in position.

What is Santana supposed to do? Box out the defender???

That INT was all on JC. Bad read, bad pass, especially b/c he had field in front of him and shold ahve just pulled it down and scrambled.


Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I'll say this till the cow come home, they should have thrown it 50 times yesterday, all out of the shotgun, all in the hurry up...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM

I can only hope Zorn will come to the same conclusion after watching the tape. Yesterday was a day to abandon the game plan, and make a game-time adjustment to what's working.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

glawrence007,

I don't have the tape so I can't review the routes of the newbies. Still I would have never believed that all the newbies + Moss would combine for 3 catches.

Three big catches? No, 3 catches for a total of 12 yards. If the whole point is to put the ball in the hands of your playmakers, it seems to me the coach has got to be a little more creative even if the newbies run routes like newbies.

Posted by: Alan4

Yes, and this was against one second string corner back and one dinged up starting corner playing for the Giants.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

The Ginas GAVE us that last drive, knowing it wouldn't matter... just eating up the clock. I think they would have liked to stop us a little more on the way, but that's it. Result was the same.

Until we stop getting D.o.G. penatlies and having to call time out 'cause we DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING, we will not be successful.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

The the JC apologists for yesterday's performance.

He had a BAD game.

He made BAD decisions early on that put us in a hole.

He had a nice drive at the END of the game when we were down by 2 scores and Giants went soft-prevent.

We saw NO development.
He had a 73% completion rating throwing checkdowns to Cooley and ARE in the slot. Nothing to the outside receivers. His one deep ball to Moss looked awful. He didn't find Kelly at all.

It was a BAD game.

I think he can bounce back against some softer opponents, but let's be real. We lost yesterday and JC was a BIG reason why.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Doesn't Jason Campbell remind you alot of Tony Banks?

Go ahead and use some cap space now and sign Garcia and salvage some kind of a season.

Posted by: leevi98 | September 14, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I think he can bounce back against some softer opponents, but let's be real. We lost yesterday and JC was a BIG reason why.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 11:54 AM

JC didn't have a BAD game. He had a MEDIOCRE game. JAY CUTLER had a BAD game. There's a difference.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

What is Santana supposed to do? Box out the defender???

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 11:50 AM

Well, he could have come back for the ball. But, what he really should have done, once JC crossed the line of scrimmage, is to have looked for someone to block.

Throwing a pass three yards past the line of scrimmage is tart. Throwing it where a defender can pick it is pure tart.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

People who think looking at the box score somehow eases the performance by Jason Campbell are deep in denial.

I said it after the game, and I'll say it again today: The Great JC Experiment is a failure.

And I say that as someone who backed #17 since he was drafted. But it's over.

He's a nice young man, he is otherwise intelligent, but he has no footbal acumen whatsoever after 5 years. He's a loser. Likable, but a loser.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

I think you're right Greg, and at least it would have made the Giants change THEIR game plan.

That's the crux of the whole playcalling debate. If you aren't making the opposition change from the way they planned for the game, you aren't doing your job.

I think you have that problem on offense AND defense right now. Blache seems to be playing the same soft coverage you guys played throughout last year. Maybe you won't get torched for too many long completions (although yesterday was bad enough) but you won't win much that way.

I just wish the Fins had a fraction of the talent available to this team, but the sum is currently MUCH less than the whole for you guys.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Trade Portis and keep Jason Campbell on a short leash, we need to draft our future QB and address our O-Line issues this offseason.

Posted by: hokiesmokie | September 14, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Why do we never see moss in the slot? with how fast and elusive he is, he would be amazing playing in space in the middle of the field.

Why do we never ever ever change our sets? We line up with the exact same formations and sets every single play/game (or so it seems). Zorn's playbook can't be that small.

Why pass so little when it was working well all game?

Why is D.Hall our #1 corner? The guy couldn't cover his head if you gave him a sombrero. I like D.Hall, but our best corner he is not.

Posted by: ecale25 | September 14, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"Doesn't Jason Campbell remind you alot of Tony Banks?"

No. Tony Banks signed like week 3 and helped salvage an 8-8 season from that 0 for whatever start. And washed the teaste of jeff george from our mouths. At this point I wish JC could grit out some victories like Banks.

(Although JC=Banks as a Ram I see.....)

so actually Leevi...Banks supports your Garcia move! (ie signing a guy during season to start & win games.)

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

JC didn't have a BAD game. He had a MEDIOCRE game. JAY CUTLER had a BAD game. There's a difference.


Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse


You want to parse definitions?

Medicore is when you play pedestrian. You did nothing outstanding to help the game, but you did nothing atrocious to hurt the game.

Bad is when you do things to hurt the game.

Those 2 turnovers were BAD mistakes early on the road to put us in a hole.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

At some point you have to admit that he may just be mediocre (in the NFL quality) - he may always need someone else on the offense to make some plays for him to have the great games, but he probably won;t have many days when HE is the guy that does it.

There's no shame in that, we have the same guy in Miami in Chad Pennington, and you can achieve respectability that way, but you probably won;t even win your division that way, let alone a championship.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse
_________________________________________

Interesting...but I don't think you can have it both ways in this case. You point to Eli as looking like a good QB, but then discount Campbell's efforts because he'll always need guys to make plays for him. Isn't this exactly what Eli had to have happen in order for the Giants to score a TD? Manningham did all the work on the play. Had the Redskins known how to tackle, it would have been a 3 yard completion.

Almost every QB in the league needs other players around him making great plays in order to look great. Claiming the Eli looked in control because one of his WR made a play and that JC didn't look in control is a reach, in my opinion

Posted by: -swb | September 14, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Sign Jeff Garcia. End this experiment now! Snead/Bradford next year!

Posted by: brian58 | September 14, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Well, he could have come back for the ball. But, what he really should have done, once JC crossed the line of scrimmage, is to have looked for someone to block.

Throwing a pass three yards past the line of scrimmage is tart. Throwing it where a defender can pick it is pure tart.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse


He did come back for the ball.

The throw was LATE as further evidenced by the fact that he was 2-3 yards past the LOS). Webster had time to recover and get into position.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I like Garcia just fine. And he'd probably be an upgrade of some degree. But he wouldn't fix the coarching and receiver problems which actually outweigh the QB issues.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 14, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I'm willing to give Campbell these next 4 games.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Last thing:

I don't understand why the CBs play 10-15 yards off the WR. We play toooo soft in the Defensive Backfield....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Almost every QB in the league needs other players around him making great plays in order to look great. Claiming the Eli looked in control because one of his WR made a play and that JC didn't look in control is a reach, in my opinion

Posted by: -swb | September 14, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse


Eli effectively spread the ball around to about 7-8 different receivers and made some pretty clutch throws to keep drives alive.

JC found Cooley and ARE on checkdowns...and made no clutch throws that I can think of.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I think he can bounce back against some softer opponents, but let's be real. We lost yesterday and JC was a BIG reason why.

Posted by: p1funk


p1, I think it was play calling that was their undoing yesterday. Campbell made mistakes, duly noted. He seems to still lack pocket presence.

And I recall them running three straight running plays when they were pinned deep in their territory... Three?!?

I think Zorn's play calling flat out blows. The play called after Portis' burst is exhibit freakin' A.

Like I said Campbell seems better when he's calling his own plays, he looked decent in the hurry up to me, but that's just me. It could've been that the Giants were on curise control at that point too.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Urlacher = Shot

You can't play like he and Polamlau and expect them to last a full season. And given Urlacher's mileage, I don't think you can expect him to be pre-injury Urlacher anymore.

His demise is hard for me to watch.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Trade Portis and keep Jason Campbell on a short leash, we need to draft our future QB and address our O-Line issues this offseason.

Posted by: hokiesmokie | September 14, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

You are retarded if you think trading portis is:

1. Possible

2. A good idea

3. A value trade (unless we trade him for Adrian Peterson)

4. Anything other than the single dumbest move you could make at this juncture. You don't trade away an All-Pro running back who, on top of being the #4 rusher in the NFL last year, ran for 62 yards on only like 16 carries against one of, if not the, toughest run defenses in the NFL. Oh, and is leaps and bounds better than the #2 guy on the depth chart. Who are you planning to replace him with? Marcus Mason? Pull your head out of your anus.

Posted by: ecale25 | September 14, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Those who say JC didn't have a bad game... Well, let's just say that was true. This league isn't about "not having a bad game." It's about finding a way to win, and not looking for 20 excuses after the game as to why you couldn't get it done.

Pressure? Big Ben was sacked 4 times for 42 yards on Thursday night - and he had Titans hanging on him nearly every other play. But he knows how to step up in the pocket, use his pump-fake, and most importantly, he knows that a good QB MAKES it happen.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

With Zorns play calling being so "vanilla", would it be the dumbest comment EVER to ask: Why doesn't he just watch some of the plays good offenses in the NFL run and use those?

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | September 14, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't Jason Campbell remind you alot of Tony Banks?

Posted by: leevi98 |

Actually, he kind of reminds me of Aaron Brooks, who used to play with the Saints. The guy was always just a half step away from being a really good quarterback...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Does Jason Campbell's mental capacity limit Jim Zorn's play-calling?

Posted by: TBDog | September 14, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

The offensive line was absolutely mauled on the ground. There is no other description for that.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 10:20 AM

----------

WR-TE-WR

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

p1funk,
I'm not going to parse definitions, but JC did not have a BAD game. His 93.6 QB rating, despite the turnovers, supports my assertion.

JC normally protects the ball well, but he gave it up twice and we all know that turnovers hurt. But so did the poor tackling. So did the conservative play calling. So did the botched pass by ARE.

The whole team played mediocre, and that's just not good enough against a very solid team on the road. A MEDIOCRE team effort, NOT a BAD effort by JC, is the reason for the loss.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Last thing:

I don't understand why the CBs play 10-15 yards off the WR. We play toooo soft in the Defensive Backfield....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse


We play 10-15 off because Carlos Rogers is the only corner we have who can play Press-Man coverage. D.Hall is terrible in press-man, that's why Oakland Released him.

Posted by: ecale25 | September 14, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Does Jason Campbell's mental capacity limit Jim Zorn's play-calling?

Posted by: TBDog | September 14, 2009 12:11 PM |

----------

This is a rhetorical question.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

-sqb, your forget that the only reason Manningham got the ball was because Eli changed the play...

Eli has the small matter of a game-changing pass in a super bowl where he kept the play alive even with a handful of Patriots defenders on top of him long enough to throw a (high, but catchable) pass to Tyree. He did that as part of a pretty-much flawless post-season run.

I'll give you the fact that every QB needs some help sometimes, but now give me some examples of where Campbell has put the team on his back and led them to an important win.

Mediocre QBs will always need some help, but the better ones find a way. Heaven help us, even Romo finds a way to win games! Again, I'm not anti-Campbell, I think he's better than you've had for some time, it's just he's probably the 4th best quarterback in your division (could even be 5th best if Vick finds his mojo) and that's going to make it really hard for you guys to get even a sniff of the post-season....

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand why the CBs play 10-15 yards off the WR. We play toooo soft in the Defensive Backfield....

Posted by: 4thFloor


I was screaming this all day yesterday, as well as a lot of other people.

Blache needs to be asked this question. I don't think it's the CBs choosing to do so. It's Blache's philosophy and it sucks.

PRESS them and JAM them. Why couldn't Moss gain any separation from Webster? It's because Webster jammed him at the LOS every play.

Giving the WRs cushion allows them to bake you underneath with screens, quick slants, and curls.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

QB ratings=power rankings.

I don't rat QBs via Algebra II

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Well, you're not going to convince people that refuse to acknowledge both sides of the story.

p1funk, just as an aside, the Redskins were in a hole well before Campbell even attempted a pass beyond the LOS. Down 10-0 well into the 2nd Q. His only attempt prior to that was a screen pass to Cooley on 3rd and 18 after a failed ARE reverse and Portis run up the gut. He did not put the Redskins in a hole...but he did dig it a little deeper.

I'll simply let his play in the future do the talking. The better indicator of this season is his 73% completion and 8.1 YPA, which was consistent throughout the game (not just in the last drive of the 4th quarter, despite what others are convincing themselves to believe) than the few isolated mental errors which Campbell has already shown he can eliminate for lengthy periods at a time. Just know, at the end of the season, I'll be here pointing to this game as the clear evidence of why the vocal majority of fans cannot be trusted. The writing is on the wall for the passing game.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo - Nonfactor in game one.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM

----------

What else to expect in his first professional football game?

Rack is not the problem.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

I for one would like to have a team that I felt could compete on any given Sunday. If you cant play with the best in the league how can you hope to win a Super Bowl? The combination of Zorn/Campbell is abysmal... What will all the apologists be saying if we cant beat St. Louis?

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

seriously dude?? seriously? they had a strip/fumble return for a 40 yd TD. they are by most people's estimation the best team in the NFC. it was a road game. we played pretty poorly overall. and we lost by 6. we didn't compete?

Hall played like crap but he isn't crap. JC needs to make better decisions but he isn't crap. Maybe we should discount Orakpo's entire camp/preseason because he didn't have a big game in his first NFL start too.

I say it again - take a deep breath. If supporting my starting QB after one game - one in which he did a lot of good amidst the bad - makes me a "Campbell apologist" then I guess that's what I am.

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

"Orakpo - Nonfactor in game one.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM "

Not exactly true, correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't Orakpo providing pass rush on play that lead to INT?

(could have been Carter, my eyes havent adjusted to quickly reading diff between 98/99)

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

psps23 and Alan4,

Do you all get the impression that if JC plays really well next weekend, all we'll hear is the "yeah but it was against a terrible team" excuse from the same people who refuse to cut him some slack when he struggles against one of the best defenses in the league?

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Baloney Sandwich.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 11:50 AM

----------

Baloney buffet.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Eli effectively spread the ball around to about 7-8 different receivers and made some pretty clutch throws to keep drives alive.

JC found Cooley and ARE on checkdowns...and made no clutch throws that I can think of.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse
_________________________________________

Eli completed passes to 7 different receivers. JC completed passes to 6 different receivers.

Campbell hit plenty of clutch throws...did you not see the very clutch play he made on the shovel pass to Betts? There were plenty of 3rd down throws that he made to keep drives alive.

I don't think that JC had a great game, but I don't think he played terribly either. He made correctable mistakes, as did Eli. The difference was that Eli had a receiver make 3 guys miss/the skins forgot how to tackle all of a sudden and they got a TD.

I don't think that the sky is falling. I'm not happy with the outcome of the game, but to write off the entire season and JC completely is a bit overly dramatic and unnecessary.

Posted by: -swb | September 14, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

The sad reality as someone stated earlier is that we are stuck with a "medium" coach and a scared QB the rest of the season... It surprises me cuz I thought these guys would come out swingin this year but I guess they just dont have it in them...

Thing is JC could win some games but he is being handcuffed by Zorns palycalling and fear of making a mistake. Someone said I could let JC play the next 4. Ok sure we could but what if we lose even 3 of those games?? If you let him play the next 4 with no better results ie. a WIN you may as well let him play out the rest of the season cuz it will be a long farewell for him and Zorn

Posted by: BenchCampbell | September 14, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Listening to NYC sports radio last night, the host said the Giants shouldn't feel that good about the win because "the Redskins play a QB who doesn't have enough sense to step up in the pocket. You learn that in Pop Warner."

JC isn't just getting skewered on RI; he's a league joke now.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

"I was screaming this all day yesterday, as well as a lot of other people.

Blache needs to be asked this question. I don't think it's the CBs choosing to do so. It's Blache's philosophy and it sucks.

PRESS them and JAM them. Why couldn't Moss gain any separation from Webster? It's because Webster jammed him at the LOS every play."

This does get annoying, but you have to look at where the safeties are playing. Webster/Thomas pressed Moss because they almost always had help over the top. Horton was playing almost as an extra LB in stopping Jacobs. You give a little cushion to prevent the WR getting behind you, which is the risk you take in pressing WRs. But the most important part of that is, first and foremost, making the tackle when the pass is completed in front of you. The cushion is not an issue if players don't whiff on the tackle.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Does Jason Campbell's mental capacity limit Jim Zorn's play-calling?

Posted by: TBDog | September 14, 2009 12:11 PM |

From Mosely at Espn:

Campbell was particularly upset about his fumble late in the first half: I spoke to Campbell for a few minutes after the game and there were two plays he definitely wanted back. On the fumble that Umenyiora returned for a touchdown, Campbell said he was in the process of checking down to one of his running backs when he felt the ball poked away. He said he was upset because he didn't sense that anyone was around him.

"It was a play where we were trying to get a down-the-field shot and the defense took it away, so by the time I'm trying to wait for my pass and get out so I can hit my check-down, they made a great play on the ball," Campbell said. "I guess as the quarterback, you just have to feel it a little bit more and slide up in the pocket and prevent that."

Campbell also was upset with himself that he checked into a running play on a third-and-8 in the second half. He said he lost track of how many yards the Redskins needed and that he should have checked into a pass play.

From me: nothing more needs to be said, "lost track of how many yards" they needed, seriously?!?!?!?!! he gave that answer with a straight face?

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

"I don't think that JC had a great game, but I don't think he played terribly either. He made correctable mistakes, as did Eli. The difference was that Eli had a receiver make 3 guys miss/the skins forgot how to tackle all of a sudden and they got a TD."

Exactly.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo played well. They tested him in coverage and he did fine. He had two tackles. You didn't hear his name much because he was away from the play covering the pass.

Posted by: brian58 | September 14, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Soup is brave, has a strong arm, decent accuracy and leadership problems. There is only one problem with his game. He cannot go through his progressions. If his primary receiver is covered he gets to dancin' and then takes a sack, a run or errant throw. Really not much else to say.

Posted by: Gweez | September 14, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Listening to NYC sports radio last night, the host said the Giants shouldn't feel that good about the win because "the Redskins play a QB who doesn't have enough sense to step up in the pocket. You learn that in Pop Warner."

JC isn't just getting skewered on RI; he's a league joke now.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

oh that's rich, man. so NY talk radio - world renowned for their fair, gentle and unbiased reporting - is now the gold standard for the league-wide perception of a player? Think (at least a little) before you post.

@ mattylight - answer is "probably"

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Hard to get a slice of baloney in edge wise in this conversation.

Blaming Coach Jim Zen after his first game of his second year as head coach of the organization with a dysfunctional F.O.?

Delicious.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

To all those posting comments in favor of JC17, noting his decent stat line, and saying 'give the kid more time' . . . don't you think that the last two years equals enough time to pass judgement and don't you think that the only stat that matters is 0 -1? He doesn't look much different than the QB he was in Al Saunders offense - he is who he is. Great guy. Average QB. No excuses left on the table. I think he'll be a winner one day. Just not any day soon. And not in DC.

Posted by: kmag1 | September 14, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Do you all get the impression that if JC plays really well next weekend, all we'll hear is the "yeah but it was against a terrible team" excuse from the same people who refuse to cut him some slack when he struggles against one of the best defenses in the league?

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 12:20 PM |
----------------------------

The Redskins aren't going to go 0-16 so of course JC will win some games against weaker opponents.

If that's all you want out of the team, you'll get your wish.

But as for JC playing well - and taking control of the game against the top tier teams (something that has to happen for any talk of playoffs to be realistic) - it would seem unlikely.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

psps23 and Alan4,

Do you all get the impression that if JC plays really well next weekend, all we'll hear is the "yeah but it was against a terrible team" excuse from the same people who refuse to cut him some slack when he struggles against one of the best defenses in the league?

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

well its kinda true isn't it? The Rams suck, and they aren't who we need to be able to compete with and win against if we ever want to win our division again....I wish we were in the NFC West or some other terrible division, but we aren't we're in the east and we need to be able to beat teams like the Giants if we're going to have success not give the team a pass because "we shouldn't have been able to win that game anyway". Playcalling and QB play killed a team that otherwise did enough to win yesterday.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

P.S.

When was the last time you watched a game and though to yourself, "Wow we really outschemed this team today" To my recollection it was when Grilliams was here.

Posted by: Gweez | September 14, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I don't give a crap about the cap right now. I rather be 5 million over the cap and have someone here that can call plays! And for all those saying they wish they had Sanchez here, how do you know he would be remotely successful here with Zorn calling the plays? If possible, Zorn would be even more conservative with a rookie QB. And I would hate to think what that would look like.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

I am officially giving Defense a pass. Yes they had some issues (2 missed turnovers on first drive, failure to get off field on 3rd and longs, cb play..)

BUTT they played good overall and good enough to win the game. Contained Jacobs, kept points low, stuffed short yardage, helpd on 4th and goal....

The loss is squarely on Offense. And I think Zorn mostly.

Oh and your welcome for my dead on scouting report of Jacobs, re: not a good short yardage back, runs to high and is replaced late in games. Stopping him on three short yardage plays (2 3rds, 1 4th)was huge for defense, but also NOT his strength.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Thing is JC could win some games but he is being handcuffed by Zorns playcalling and fear of making a mistake.

This very accurately summarizes the offensive problem in one sentence.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 14, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Alan4:

Like CAMPBELL said in the post-op, "What am I supposed to do, throw into coverage." The new guys just weren't open, and they should have been.

Posted by: glawrence007 | September 14, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Wow, football players are paid WAY too much money. Especially this team, who doesn't know how to tackle, or step up into the pocket on an outside rush, or celebrates while they are down by 2 scores with less than a minute left to play. YEAH, this guys deserve millions of dollars, what a joke.

Posted by: BMACattack | September 14, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

"Do you all get the impression that if JC plays really well next weekend, all we'll hear is the "yeah but it was against a terrible team" excuse from the same people who refuse to cut him some slack when he struggles against one of the best defenses in the league?"

Posted by: mattylight

Of course, I'd expect nothing less. We've already had numerous peeps up here throw in the towel, so it'll likely take nothing less than 7 straight wins (culminating in back-to-back wins over PHI and ATL), near perfection in the turnover department, and multiple TDs per game for people to admit they may have been wrong following this game.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

swb, your forget that the only reason Manningham got the ball was because Eli changed the play...

Posted by: Redcoat | September 14, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse
___________________________________________

RC, I didn't forget that point, because that point is irrelevant. Did Eli audible into a play where Manningham was wide open streaking down the sidelines? No, Eli audibled into a play where Manningham caught a ball and, had the redskins been able to tackle, would have resulted in 4th and 5. How is that indicative of Eli being superior? He lucked into a TD

JC put the team on his back plenty of times last year. The first game that comes to mind is the Saints game, where he avoided a sack and threw a 60+ yard TD to win the game. There were many other occasions last season where he put the team in a position to win the game in the 4th quarter. Someone else here posted the specifics a few weeks ago

Posted by: -swb | September 14, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

oh that's rich, man. so NY talk radio - world renowned for their fair, gentle and unbiased reporting - is now the gold standard for the league-wide perception of a player? Think (at least a little) before you post.

@ mattylight - answer is "probably"

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:24 PM |
-----------------------

I didn't say it was the gold standard, you mentally-stunted maggot.

Further, the statement made by the host is dead-on re JC's pokcet presence (lack thereof).

YOU think a little before you post next time - and before you put words in someone else's mouth, you low-rent weasel.

Selah.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:29 PM | Report abuse

JZ presser:

-JCs decision making good...except 'poor' on INT beyond scrimmage.

-Next question plain stoopid. I'll spare you the obligatory coach speak.

-Second play was "pretty sound" and "on the script" and "couldn't have been set up better"...but they had the receivers covered.

More to come...

Posted by: 4-12 | September 14, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

cL,

The head coach of the Washington Redskins is playing with a very, very weak hand.

He's holding one pair, playing against a guy holding a royal flush.

Please!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

But as for JC playing well - and taking control of the game against the top tier teams (something that has to happen for any talk of playoffs to be realistic) - it would seem unlikely.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Actually, teams very often get into the playoffs without "taking control of the game against the top tier teams". You think most wildcard teams, or winners of weak divisions, do that a lot? Not hardly. What you're talking about is a championship-caliber team. I don't think even the homiest of homers among us consider the Redskins a legit SUper Bowl contender at this point.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

you always know when you have gotten under MrSkin21 when he busts out the "Selah"

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Thing is JC could win some games but he is being handcuffed by Zorns playcalling and fear of making a mistake.

This very accurately summarizes the offensive problem in one sentence.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 14, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

That's weird cause i could swear he had the same issues under Gibbs.

Posted by: Gweez | September 14, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

psps, they were giving 10 yard cushions on 3rd and short plays.

I understand about the safety help and how the 'skins were concerned with getting bodies on Jacobs.

And how does a WR get by you? The only way this happens if you're playing zone and you're expecting help from over the top, or you just don't have the speed to keep up with the WR.

So, given that Horton was playing almost as an extra LB (I assume this is the cobra/4-6 package), shouldn't that particular formation call for press man coverage?

But I guess that is if the CBs (Rogers and Hall) have the speed to keep up with the WRs they're checking.

Then again, Hall can't man to man coverage. So could it be signing him was a major mistake?

Or maybe have Rogers play man coverage. Have him blanket the teams best WR all day long.

Every one else plays a zone coverage.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Thing is JC could win some games but he is being handcuffed by Zorns playcalling and fear of making a mistake.

This very accurately summarizes the offensive problem in one sentence.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 14, 2009 12:27 PM

----------

Wrong.

Try again.

The QB is limiting the plays the coach can call, and blowing the good plays that he does call.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Of course, I'd expect nothing less. We've already had numerous peeps up here throw in the towel, so it'll likely take nothing less than 7 straight wins (culminating in back-to-back wins over PHI and ATL), near perfection in the turnover department, and multiple TDs per game for people to admit they may have been wrong following this game.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 12:28 PM |
-------------------------------------

Yep. They're headed for a complete turnaround, a 12-4 record, and a beat-down of a few good playoffs teams.

And when that doesn't happen, you'll be right back here providing endless excuses as to why it isn't the starting QB's fault.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Chia Pet:

You "heart Jim Zen" so your puppy love blinds you. Dude blows and is an example of when your upteenth HC choice takes the job.

But yeah top down issues, can't argue that.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Highest paid player at his position: Portis. Versus Campbell who turns out to be one of the lowest paid.

Hmmmm who do you think isn't earning their pay check?

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

-3rd and long defense..."we'll continue to get closer and closer to those receivers".

-If AH plays 60% of snaps, don't you need all DT active?... Last inactive was between Marko and AMontgomery.

-Did you view JC as comfortable?...He could've stepped up in pocket on 3 or 4 occasions.


More coming...

Posted by: 4-12 | September 14, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

you always know when you have gotten under MrSkin21 when he busts out the "Selah"

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:30 PM |
--------------------------------

LOL.. Ahh, cl, you know me too well.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if the Redskin's coaching staff reads these blogs? We didn't need to see the film on Monday to know what is what about the team. I'm pretty sure after watching Jay Cutler last night, proved he would have been a mistake! Anyway, what is between the Redskin's ears is their problem. They don't believe on any given Sunday they are going to do what they practiced and come out with a win. The blame is shot gunned for this loss. A very low risk passing attack. Bad play calling, QB and coaches. Players not making the plays when they are critical. Notice the non-mention of anything physical? When the Redskin's bring their brains on the feild with them, they will be a force to be reckoned with. First step to that cause, don't let the fans be smarter than you!

Posted by: vmeelan | September 14, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

I haven't been called a "low-rent weasel" in a while. Resorting to personal attacks en lieu of actual cogent thought, awesome. Thank you and stay classy bud.

p.s. you are "Mr. Redskin", so I should probably just defer to your commentary and regard it as gospel on all thing Burgundy and Gold.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Orakpo - Nonfactor in game one.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 11:45 AM

----------

What else to expect in his first professional football game?

Rack is not the problem.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:16 PM

Well...I'm not saying he is the problem, but all the big yardage runs went to his side of the ball.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Second play was on the script??? It was set up well except it was covered???


JFC!!!! That is the whole Fing problem!!!!!

WTF was it "on the Fing Script" in the first place?????

Dumb ass still doesn't get the fact that it was a stoooooopid fing call.

FUJK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | September 14, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

IT MUST BE ALL PORTIS FAULT.

He and Haynesworth are paid the most. For what Portis is paid he should have broken off at least 3 or 4 long gains the way Adrian Peterson does. When they are within 10 yard of the endzone a true hall-of-fame running back should be able to run in at least 1 out of 3. Since last year, last 8 games and now this one. NUTHIN'

BENCH PORTIS.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I don't think even the homiest of homers among us consider the Redskins a legit SUper Bowl contender at this point.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:30 PM |
---------------------------------

You got that right.

And with #17 under center, no one ever will.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

Point taken. My point is this -- some people on here are, in my opinion, really irrational about yesterday's game. I was just as frustrated as you that we lost -- I was upset at JC's fumble, mad that we went into a 17-0 hole, etc. But you have to take a step back and have some perspective. Do I think JC is a top-5 QB in the NFL? No. Do I blame him for having a rough go of it in the Meadowlands against a team who won the Super Bowl 2 years ago, and was the top seed in the NFC last year? No. Most teams are going to struggle to beat the Giants, in my opinion. It's understandable that our average offensive line is going to have a tough time against a terrific defensive line. It's only one game -- let's wait and see where we are in a few weeks before going overboard.

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Can we at least give JC a few weeks before we throw him to the wolves?

Yes, his time management in the end was poor. However, you might have to give Giants fans credit for that(I dont want to but I will) they were very loud, very loud. I dont fault him for one of those time outs.

Did he take over the game, no he didnt. But I also dont think he lost us the game. He did enough to keep us in it.

I was just frustrated by my feelings of deja-vu from last year. 4th quarter, Defense needs to make a stop and once again, unable to do so. How many times did we see this last year?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 14, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

well its kinda true isn't it? The Rams suck, and they aren't who we need to be able to compete with and win against if we ever want to win our division again....

...Playcalling and QB play killed a team that otherwise did enough to win yesterday.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 12:26 PM


JC17 & Co swept the Iggles last year, yet the Iggles played in the NFC Championship. If this team wins the games against "terrible" teams and splits in the division, and gets hot at the end of the season all will be well.

As far as the loss, you might want to include missed tackles in your list of the reasons for it.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Does Jason Campbell's mental capacity limit Jim Zorn's play-calling?

Posted by: TBDog | September 14, 2009 12:11

Does Clinton Portis limited repertoire, inability to score TD's, necessity to be in the game more than he should, LIMIT and HANDCUFF Zorn's play calling? When he should be calling a short pass he is instead calling "run left" because PORTIS is the highest paid at his position and Snidely's pet?

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

On ARE in slot...He beat his guy and was open a lot. MK was open a couple times, but we threw to ARE. The Gints really took Santana out.

On lack of discipline...Santana situation, understand why it was off-setting penalties. Hope to show team why it's better to walk away. On LL hit out of bounds, he thought he was still in bounds..he launched while guy was still in bounds.

ARE option play was "worth the risk", not "trickster stuff".

Posted by: 4-12 | September 14, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

The head coach of the Washington Redskins is playing with a very, very weak hand.
He's holding one pair, playing against a guy holding a royal flush.

Please!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

The Head Coach doesn't know how to play poker. You're kidding me right? So its the players fault for his unbelievably weak play calling? And if he feels handcuffed by JC, guess what? Yank him and put in Collins if that's going to give you more confidence and creativity when calling plays.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

I haven't been called a "low-rent weasel" in a while. Resorting to personal attacks en lieu of actual cogent thought, awesome. Thank you and stay classy bud.

p.s. you are "Mr. Redskin", so I should probably just defer to your commentary and regard it as gospel on all thing Burgundy and Gold.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:34 PM |
--------------------------------------

Don't take it so personally.

I'm sure you're a fine human being, when you're not engaged in trying to weave empirical evidence from a post that didn't even hint that NYC sports radio was the be-all, end-all in sports judgment.

I'll remain "classy," and you can remain a warbler and a whiner - it mixes well with the fiction you write on here.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

THROW PORTIS under the train first.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Dude blows and is an example of when your upteenth HC choice takes the job.

But yeah top down issues, can't argue that.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:33 PM

----------

cL,

No coaching candidate with a proven resume would want this job, which is part of the reason why we have Jim Zorn as our head coach.

Any one in his position would be facing an uphill battle, to say the least, and a Bill Cowher would not want to risk their reputation assuming control of coaching this team.

Lay off the HC.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

End presser.

Posted by: 4-12 | September 14, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Red, I've been saying for a while that Rogers is the team's best cover corner. I think Hall can be effective in coverage if you consistently give him help over the top. Landry provided this on the INT, and even though Hall was beaten by the WR, we were still able to make a great defensive play. One of the solutions may be to leave Rogers on an island with a #2 WR, relatively speaking, and shade Landry towards Hall's side for double coverage.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

I don't think even the homiest of homers among us consider the Redskins a legit SUper Bowl contender at this point.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:30 PM |
---------------------------------

You got that right.

And with #17 under center, no one ever will.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

That is the dumbest thing I have seen in quite some....oh WAIT...it's "MR REDSKIN"....yes sir!! Even though you made a direct corrolation to NY sports radio and the league's perception of JC...but did NOT call it the "gold standard"...so sorry to have grossly miscontrued your words master. I will meekly crawl back into my low rent weasel den now and eagerly await your next wise post with the other sycophants

HAIL TO THE (MR)REDSKIN

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

You might be right C-Pet. But I unheart Jim Zen.

F Jim Zorn.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

WOW! I'm glad the preseason is over with! I'm ready for our season to begin @ home this week!

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter what JC does, he'll never get any credit. He is not to blame for that loss. Zorn's poor play calling is the problem. A WR reverse pass after a big Portis run was one of the worst calls I've seen. We continue to run most of the time to the left side. When JC was allowed to throw, he was successful. Yeah, he had the mistakes but he's not the reason we lost.

Posted by: dcwun | September 14, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Yank him and put in Collins if that's going to give you more confidence and creativity when calling plays.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 12:40 PM

-----------

Oh yeah!

Yank JC and put in Todd "Rubberband Arm" Collins!

Problem solved.

Please!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Can I get an Amen for Larry in Clinton?

Posted by: bostskin | September 14, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

regarding cap room, the Skins should have runyan down for a visit. The OL depth issue didn't change.

Last year, the Skins got swept by the jints and we swept the iggles. Based on the 'if A>B and B>C, shouldn't A>>C' theory, the jints should have swept the iggles. Didn't happen. The iggles beat the jints 2 of 3, including the playoffs.

Some teams don't matchup well -- we don't matchup well vs the jints -- and haven't for years.


Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure you're a fine human being, when you're not engaged in trying to weave empirical evidence from a post that didn't even hint that NYC sports radio was the be-all, end-all in sports judgment.

I'll remain "classy," and you can remain a warbler and a whiner - it mixes well with the fiction you write on here.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

man you are either really stubborn or really obtuse. reread your post - you directly linked what they were saying to the league's perception of him. not sure how you can weasel (no pun intended) outta that one

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Yank him and put in Collins if that's going to give you more confidence and creativity when calling plays.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 12:40 PM

----------

The sad part here is that TC would still represent an upgrade over JC.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

I'm not worried about the defense. They gave up 1 TD and 3 FGs and had some great stops, including the one inside the 5. I think the errors that occurred on D can be fixed.

Unfortunately the same can't be said for the QB.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Just think, we could've had Jay Cutler with his killer stats yesterday. JC will be fine as long as the play calling gets better.

Posted by: dcwun | September 14, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

ga8085,
Did you notice that one of your comments somehow turned into the last paragraph of this WaPo article about the game?

How'd you do that?

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Chia, you're right on one very important point. People need to go back and remember how Zorn got this job. Snyder dawdled on Gregg Williams. Other candidates pulled out and wouldn't come to DC. Snyder then dawdled on Jim Schwartz. More candidates pulled out and wouldn't even interview. Snyder then went after Spags. Citing the ever-present "family concerns", Spags turned down a second interview. And then Snyder offered the job to Jim Fassel. The fans all revolted here on RI, on the Redskins forums, etc.

I may have got some of the sequencing wrong, but the bottom line is the same: the last man standing was Jim Zorn.

Zorn is a great man. He is truly one of those people you really want to see succeed. But he was a stretch for offensive coordinator, and even more so as a head coach.

All of that said, I'm still Horny for Zorny :-) If this train is going to go off the edge of a cliff, I'm going to go for the ride because I'm nothing if not into self-mutilation.

Posted by: PDiddy | September 14, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Some teams don't matchup well -- we don't matchup well vs the jints -- and haven't for years.


Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 12:46 PM

----------

Bad news since both teams play in the NFC East.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

WOW! I'm glad the preseason is over with! I'm ready for our season to begin @ home this week!

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

LOL! I wish we could all be that delusional.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

man you are either really stubborn or really obtuse. reread your post - you directly linked what they were saying to the league's perception of him. not sure how you can weasel (no pun intended) outta that one

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:46 PM |
--------------------------
Nah, I said he's not just being skewered on RI any longer. He's getting it from all fronts (and if you dispute that, go check the national columns/blogs). It isn't restricted to NYC sports radio (my mention of that came as anecdotal evidence, because I was listening to it).

You're kinda cute, the way you hang in there even when you're wrong.

(smooch)

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Who's fault is it that the offense sucks, Jim Zorn or Jason Campbell?:

65% Zorn

35% Campbell

Zorn's play calling is horrible. I don't see how anyone can not see this. You rip off a 34 yard run, and then go to some go-go gadget bs?

To quote Steve Harvey: "Mo*****f***er, for what?"

They should have allowed the offense to gain some tempo and build on the momentum from Portis' run.

Campbell STILL has little to no pocket presence, watching that game you can't tell me different.

He's also still very indecisive.

Campbell also is "pick shook", or scared to take a chance throwing to receivers in coverage.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Last year, the Skins got swept by the jints and we swept the iggles. Based on the 'if A>B and B>C, shouldn't A>>C' theory, the jints should have swept the iggles. Didn't happen. The iggles beat the jints 2 of 3, including the playoffs.

Some teams don't matchup well -- we don't matchup well vs the jints -- and haven't for years.


Posted by: zcezcest1 |

Exactly. Everyone needs to settle down.

Posted by: dcwun | September 14, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

remind me of what "fiction" I've posted? Fiction is the opposite of fact. What we do on here is largely opinion. Fact- JC had the 10th highest QB rating. Opinion - he sucks/is great/is average. Fiction - we won yesterday. Get it?

And "selah" (whatever that means), don't give yourself so much credit. Takes a lot more than an angry, faceless dude to get me angry/taking this stuff personally. I can debate things without sophomoric name-calling..if that's your bag, go nuts bro. Kinda sad, but go nuts! Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing.

HAIL!!

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

P-Diddy comes out of hiding!

and in defense of his homeboy Jim Zen!

HOLLA!

and true dat!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Does Clinton Portis limited repertoire, inability to score TD's, necessity to be in the game more than he should, LIMIT and HANDCUFF Zorn's play calling? When he should be calling a short pass he is instead calling "run left" because PORTIS is the highest paid at his position and Snidely's pet?

Posted by: periculum

I seem to recall the first off play was run left, for like 30 or 40 yards. Then Zorn Sheet the bed on his next play call, I wish he was handcuffed.

Oh no, I'm handcuffed into handing off to one of the best RB's in NFL history (statistically first 7 years)

he scored as many TD's as anyone first 7 seasons, he's a pro bowler, perennial 1,000 yard rusher, great blocker,

retarded perspective, retarded

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 14, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

HAIL!!

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:52 PM |
----------------------------

You're doing a fine job of diverting from JC onto me.

Go grab yourself a coffee-and, fella.

:)

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Eli completed passes to 7 different receivers. JC completed passes to 6 different receivers.

Campbell hit plenty of clutch throws...did you not see the very clutch play he made on the shovel pass to Betts? There were plenty of 3rd down throws that he made to keep drives alive.

I don't think that JC had a great game, but I don't think he played terribly either. He made correctable mistakes, as did Eli. The difference was that Eli had a receiver make 3 guys miss/the skins forgot how to tackle all of a sudden and they got a TD.

I don't think that the sky is falling. I'm not happy with the outcome of the game, but to write off the entire season and JC completely is a bit overly dramatic and unnecessary.

Posted by: -swb | September 14, 2009 12:21 PM

I don't think the sky is falling either but let's not kid ourselves about JC's performance. Are you going to believe stats or what you see? JC is not as good or as poised as Eli no matter what the stats show. Eli escaped pressure and completed passes. JC has no pocket presence and lost track of down and distance. Sure JC threw to six different receivers but 14 of his 19 completions (73%) went to 2 receivers and 4 of those completions came on the meaningless final drive along with 56 yds and JC's lone TD. Please stop trotting out JC's numbers. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

ga8085,
Did you notice that one of your comments somehow turned into the last paragraph of this WaPo article about the game?

How'd you do that?

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Holy crap! I'm finally being recognized for my thorough and on point analysis. Mama always said I was special! LOL

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Word Red.

The HC search was a debacle no doubt and we had/have to hope that Zorn would take advantage of golden ticket. he hasn't/won't.

I also could care less how good a guy Zorn is. He sounds like a bama to me with all the medium hip hip BS.

I don't want a "nice guy"...let Zorn run a christian non-profit.

Did you hear Tomlin on Thurday "The more violent team will win"....word.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Let's face it, Zorn is not a very good coach.
Don't forget he was a QB coach in Seattle.
We took a gamble and lost.
Get rid of him now, and let's bring in someone who can get the offense in gear.

Posted by: jmy999 | September 14, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I seem to recall the first off play was run left, for like 30 or 40 yards. Then Zorn Sheet the bed on his next play call, I wish he was handcuffed.>

One run? Then what? What is really retarded is your constant inability to look at the stats ... all the stats honestly. He ended with under 4 yards per carry with that run. What does that tell you about the rest of his afternoon? The highest paid HOF ... and you think this guy is even close to as good as Riggins. PATHETIC!


Who's fault is it that the offense sucks, Jim Zorn or Jason Campbell?:

95% Portis

5% OL

2.5% Campbell

2.5% Zorn

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

You're kinda cute, the way you hang in there even when you're wrong.

(smooch)

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

you make me laugh. thank you, I needed that because until this I was having a serious case of "the Mondays". I should've known you were referring to systemic, nationwide "skewering" and not just the kind folks in NY. Thank you for pointing out the err of my ways (again).

(hugs)

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Holy crap! I'm finally being recognized for my thorough and on point analysis. Mama always said I was special! LOL

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 12:55 PM

I have to say, I do sincerely wish Zorn had taken your advice in the 2nd half! It was absolutely on point.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I like Zorn and I respect the Giants.

But that WR reverse option absolutely killed us, everything after that was from a position of extreme disadvantage.

the first play looked like total domination, just run it again, run it until they stop it. Or, let the QB throw it. Don't you have to set up a reverse?? It was the 2nd play, you don't even know if the D is over persuing yet.

very ironic that we go to NY and shoot ourselves in the leg!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 14, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Campbell also is "pick shook", or scared to take a chance throwing to receivers in coverage.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 12:51 PM

----------

Eli Manning played with a frenetic sense of urgency for 4 quarters;

Drop, scan, throw.

Drop, scan, scramble, throw.

Drop, scan, throw.

JC played with this same sense of urgency for 1 minute in the 4th quarter.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

p1, I think it was play calling that was their undoing yesterday. Campbell made mistakes, duly noted. He seems to still lack pocket presence.

And I recall them running three straight running plays when they were pinned deep in their territory... Three?!?

I think Zorn's play calling flat out blows. The play called after Portis' burst is exhibit freakin' A.


Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse


Red, you are spot on.

When I say the 3 runs get called when we were pinned, my comment was - "Zorn just doesn't believe in JC".

Zorn says all these nice thigns about JC17 to the media, but I think he jsut feels bad for the guy b/c of what the FO pulled this past offseason.

Zorn sticks up for JC17 and says he "believes" in him, but it seems more like the way your dad pats you on the back and says he "believes" in you after you'v struck out in all 3 of your at-bats in little league.

He may say he "believes" in you, but he's not gonna put you in to pinch hit in a clutch moment.


Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Campbell also is "pick shook", or scared to take a chance throwing to receivers in coverage.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009

Should even have to throw that much? He isn't all that well paid relative to Portis? Shouldn't Portis be breaking off runs like Adrian Peterson for what he is paid? Taking the pressure off of his "below average" QB? But he isn't, is he?

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

If it works, everyone loves Zorn for calling that gagdet play on the first drive.

The culprit was ARE, who had more than enough time to throw it away, but instead went into his patented scatter-foot-punt-return mode, thinking he could actually escape from all the blue jerseys.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

After that reverse on the 2nd play, I didnt fault JZ for having that in the script, I faulted Randle-El for not throwing it away. If it isnt there just throw it away. Taking that loss hurt more than the play called. The coach can call the plays, but if there isnt execution, that is on the player/s.

Its one game. It would have taken a very good to great game to beat the Giants, we couldnt pull it together as a team.

Even in the hurry up, I seriously doubt JC is calling his own plays as some would suggest. Zorn is still on the headset speaking relaying calls directly to JC.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 14, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,

Portis had no lanes to run through!

What do you expect from the man?

Is he supposed to leap over the whole Giant's defensive line?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

CUT PORTIS and all will be well.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

And that my friends, is what happens when the Starters don't participate in the Pre-Season games. They're out of sync, out of position, out of breath, wasting timeouts.

Posted by: ccwbambam | September 14, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

and, if you're right p1, and I suspect you may be, then there is absolutely no reason for Zorn to start Campbell, unless Collins is truly a worse quarterback.

just food for thought.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I also could care less how good a guy Zorn is. He sounds like a bama to me with all the medium hip hip BS.

I don't want a "nice guy"...let Zorn run a christian non-profit.

Did you hear Tomlin on Thurday "The more violent team will win"....word.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 12:57 PM

Good post cL.

Lot of talk on here about how JC seems to have grown in this offense during the offseason and preseason, but what about Zorn.

Based on last nights game, Zorn is the one that needs coaching up. He is the one that needs to step up on game days.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 14, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Piece by piece.

Jim Zorn. The team was not ready mentally or physically for this game. Simply put, this team wasn't ready for the season to start.

Zorn waited until the last week of preseason to get the WR group set -- and the lack of practice as a unit showed.

The reverse on the 2nd play was an inane call. Great defenses are rarely fooled by gadgets.

Have to give him the fake FG. Not sure if it was more lucky than brilliant, but it was executed extremely well.

The play calling was predictable -- it seemed the jints had a pretty good idea of what was coming almost every play.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

I don't drink coffee, maybe some whiskey? Want one, I'm buyin...least I can do for the good entertainment you're providing me today.

OK back to JC - I will predict that he ends the year with a QB rating of 85 (by way of comparison, Eli's career QB avg is 76) or better and we win 9 games or more. Not great but better than average on both accounts. MrRedskin, I'd love to make a friendly, gentleman's wager on those. Whatcha think?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"man you are either really stubborn or really obtuse."

Posted by: Notorious_LMG


Every time I hear that word, I can't help but to think of this classic exchange:

Andy Dufresne: How can you be so obtuse?

Warden Samuel Norton: What? What did you call me?

Andy Dufresne: Obtuse? Is it deliberate?

Warden Samuel Norton: You're forgetting yourself.

Andy Dufresne: The country club will have his old timecards. Records, W-2s with his names on it. Sir, if I ever get out, I'd never mention what happens here. I'd be just as indictable as you for laundering that money.

Warden Samuel Norton: [Norton slaps the table]

Warden Samuel Norton: Don't you mention money to me again. You sorry SON OF A B****! NOT IN THIS ROOM, NOT EVER!

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Campbell hit plenty of clutch throws...did you not see the very clutch play he made on the shovel pass to Betts?

Posted by: -swb | September 14, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse


Right. That play were he FUMBLED the snap through his legs and shoveled it to Betts.

Sorry. In my book you don't get credit for being "clutch" when your own incompetence set up the situation to begin with.


Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,

The Vikings have the most electric RB running behind ONE OF THE BEST O lines in the league.

Apples to oranges, my friend.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

I hope they wiggle themselves into Jeff Garcia's living room and offer him a contract before we begin the teeth of the '09 season

Posted by: The_Spear | September 14, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

I still remember when Lord Gibbs took the shackles off JC and put him in the hurry up in the middle of the game against Dallas. So why can't Zorn do the same? I mean if an old coot like Gibbs can change it up, what's the problem?

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,

Portis had no lanes to run through!

DOH! Silly me the same guys are blocking for Campbell aren't they? Yet he did manage to get some drives going (without much help from Portis) against that defense?

NO EXCUSE for PORTIS. I bet Peterson would be able to run behind this line.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Solution from da geniuses at da blog:

1. Fire Jim Zen.

2. Trade Portis.

3. Start Todd Collins.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I still remember when Lord Gibbs took the shackles off JC and put him in the hurry up in the middle of the game against Dallas.

Last I looked PORTIS was making a whole heck of a lot more than Campbell. Take the shackles off of PORTIS, let Portis run 50 times a game. Its what he wants isn't it? Then, yes the Skins will be victorious! NOT.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

When it was first and Goal yesterday, Portis ran, then that STUPID screen to Moss..

Zorn should be fired on that play calling alone. Line up, Marko, Kelly, Davis, Thomas, Cooley.. The Giants had both starting DB's out!!!! Tell me you can't throw in for a TD with 4 chances? Come on!!

Intead on 3rd down you have Moss and El who are 5'8... Un Fing beleiveable.

Play to our weakness not strengths

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | September 14, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

great exchange, great movie DMV

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

BENCH PORTIS

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Does Clinton Portis limited repertoire, inability to score TD's, necessity to be in the game more than he should, LIMIT and HANDCUFF Zorn's play calling? When he should be calling a short pass he is instead calling "run left" because PORTIS is the highest paid at his position and Snidely's pet?

Posted by: periculum

The STATS would say that Portis is headed to the hall of fame, he's top 10 average yards from scrimmage per game first 7 seasons, YOU LOOK AT THE STATS.

did you watch last year 1478 yards, did you watch the pro bowl?

or the previous year when he led the league in carries?

If not Portis then who, genius

1st play Portis for 30, next play randle el for -15, 1st possesion zero points, next possesion from our 2 yard line zero points, game over.

zorn opened the door the Giants walked in.

go ahead and blame Portis, but you should check his stats, he's the most consistent Redskins offensive player in the last decade. He's about to become the Redskins all time leading rusher, so don't tell me to check the stats

PLayer Hater, what diod Portis bang your girl or something?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 14, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't seem like JZ trusts JC. Too many runs, too predictible. With this vanilla playcalling, there ends up being no room for error.

Even with the strip fumble TD, and that stupid INT JC threw, the Redskins were still very much in that game. They have the talent to win NFC East games, they just don't have that swagger.

Instead of being violent, sudden, & medium, JZ needs to dare to win. Take a shot downfield. Take some chances!

Nobody fears the Redskins offense. At all. Just shut down Moss, Portis & Cooley, pressure JC, and eventually the Redskins defense will tire out from being on the field so much.

Why can't Kelly or Thomas get open? Why is Sleepy Davis on the team? Why did we select Devin Thomas when DeSean Jackson was still on the board? Why did we draft Laron Landry when Adrian Peterson was on the board?

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 14, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and sign Jeff Garcia!

Please!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

why is there air?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

When it was first and Goal yesterday, Portis ran, then that STUPID screen to Moss ...

For what he is paid, run Portis 4 times and if he gets stuffed so be it. He is an HOF, according to the geniuses on this blog. He is the "money guy" according to them. RUN PORTIS into the ground.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Sure Campbell didn't have a great game, but I thought a bigger disappointment was the defense not being able to get off the field, particularly in the first half. The Giants just ate up the clock. Landry needs to play smarter, DeAngelo Hall is terrible, can't cover or tackle and Rogers still has hands of stone.

Posted by: skinswest | September 14, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

The play calling was predictable -- it seemed the jints had a pretty good idea of what was coming almost every play.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:02

Isn't that disturbing? We picked up their practice squad QB, who spent the past year learning Gints offense. Then we picked up Wynn, who was with Gints defense last year. That should help, no?

Yet it looked more like the Giants knew what was coming than we did.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

improve by benching your best player?????

thanks god these commentors aren't coaches

did you coach Jordan in high school?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 14, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Sign Kanye West.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

The most important thing is how the team responds. Do they sulk or get to work and tear the next 3 to 4 opponents apart?

Do they believe in Zorn and Campbell?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

With this vanilla playcalling, there ends up being no room for error.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 14, 2009 1:06 PM

----------

You're lactose intolerant.

You visit Baskin Robbins in search of frozen yogurt.

They have one flavor, vanilla, in their case.

What do you do?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

I don't think that JC had a great game, but I don't think he played terribly either. He made correctable mistakes, as did Eli. The difference was that Eli had a receiver make 3 guys miss/the skins forgot how to tackle all of a sudden and they got a TD.

I don't think that the sky is falling. I'm not happy with the outcome of the game, but to write off the entire season and JC completely is a bit overly dramatic and unnecessary.

Posted by: -swb | September 14, 2009 12:21 PM


If you'd like to find the quote where I wrote off JC and the season entirely, I'd be interested in seeing it cuz I don't remember writing it.

You want to diminish Eli's TD b/c Manninghal made a nice play - fine. Is that the game we are gonna play?

Does JC get credit for his stat-padding last drive when we were down 2 scores and the Gs were playing soft prevent?

If you take away a special teams gadget play, and an end-of-game meaningless TD when the game was already over, then the Skins put up 3 points yesterday.


All you stat-keepers are blind. Watch the game with your eyes and judge it. Don't wait for the QB ratings to come out and then decide if JC had a good game.

We lost. JC was a big part of that.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

The STATS would say that Portis is headed to the hall of fame, he's top 10 average yards from scrimmage per game first 7 seasons, YOU LOOK AT THE STATS.

did you watch last year 1478 yards, did you watch the pro bowl?

Okay genius pabrian, Look at what Adrian Peterson did yesterday. Now exclude the fluke 34 yard run and do the math dude. Probably under 2 yards per carry with NO TD's right?

If he is HOF as you claim then he should be leading the team. Overcoming the Giant's defense, making plays and scoring TD's. That's what an HOF does isn't it?

Where was he? NO WHERE TO BE FOUND. Yet you think its okay to blame Campbell? Now, that's retarded.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Zorn must believe in Campbell. Why else would he leave himself with Collins as his only other option?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Periculum,

How many time do you need to be told that making the type in your posts bold does not make them any more credible?

Use bold sparingly, if at all.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

improve by benching your best player?????

thanks god these commentors aren't coaches

did you coach Jordan in high school?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 14, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I know your aren't saying Campbell is our best player?

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

don't think the sky is falling either but let's not kid ourselves about JC's performance. Are you going to believe stats or what you see? JC is not as good or as poised as Eli no matter what the stats show. Eli escaped pressure and completed passes. JC has no pocket presence and lost track of down and distance. Sure JC threw to six different receivers but 14 of his 19 completions (73%) went to 2 receivers and 4 of those completions came on the meaningless final drive along with 56 yds and JC's lone TD. Please stop trotting out JC's numbers. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 14, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse
___________________________________________

I'll stop "trotting out JC's numbers" when you stop focusing solely on the negative and ignoring all positive aspects of play.

Just because the Skins didn't win doesn't mean you can discount portions of his stats as meaningless. I promise you the Giants weren't trying to let the Redskins score at any point during the game.

Posted by: -swb | September 14, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Adrian Peterson waaaay better than Portis

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

and, if you're right p1, and I suspect you may be, then there is absolutely no reason for Zorn to start Campbell, unless Collins is truly a worse quarterback.

just food for thought.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse


I think Zorn doesn't truly trust JC17, but he also knows that his fate is tied to JC17.

The moment Zorn pulls JC17 in favor of Collins (barring injury), Zorn would basically be telling Snerrato: "I've failed to develop our starting QB the way you wanted".

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Zorn must believe in Campbell. Why else would he leave himself with Collins as his only other option?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009 1:11 PM

----------

Because Collins is his next best QB, stumped.

or maybe his first best?

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I know your aren't saying Campbell is our best player?

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

He was referring to Portis. Someone (won't say any names) had the bright idea of saying Portis should be benched.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Fine, Periculum and we'll also note that Adrian Peterson plays for the Vikings - and I'll bet that having Farve as a QB contributed to some of his ability to run wild; as opposed to Portis, who got stuffed several times when EVERYONE in the stadium knew he was getting the ball.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Use bold sparingly, if at all.
Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009

But is aggravating to these "geniuses" who only want to crucify Campbell, not looking at the really poor game the right side of the OL had, not looking at how ineffective Portis was, not looking at the defense's glaring weakness in DB land?

Besides I like practicing my HTML.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I have been asking that question since draft day a few years ago. Laron Landry over Adrian Peterson come on. I don't want to hear about how we have Portis. Portis is a hard nosed back, but no home run threat. Peterson would have been in the end zone on that first play. Instead, we got Landry who is always either out of position or if you get him angry he plays horrible. I think he was thinking about last year when Brandon Jacobs ran him over.

We lost this game because of Campbell and our secondary couldnt make tackles.

Posted by: Redskins001 | September 14, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Adrian Peterson waaaay better than Portis

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:13 PM

-----------

Really?

and Tom Brady is waaaaaay better than Jeff Garcia!

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Farve as a QB contributed to some of his ability to run wild; as opposed to Portis, who got stuffed several times when EVERYONE in the stadium knew he was getting the ball.

Portis is paid a whole heck of a lot more than Favre and Peterson. He is HOF, or at least that is what pabrian claims? He is under 30. NO EXCUSES

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

And for you Cutler fans. Yeah, that would of helped. For every touchdown the guy throws at least one int.

Posted by: Redskins001 | September 14, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

We lost. JC was a big part of that.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:11 PM

A QB is always a big part of a loss, since they touch the ball on virtually every offensive play.

Hence, I was wondering how those who generally belittle stats as meaningless, and say it's all about wins-losses, clamored longingly for Jay Cutler despite the fact that he and JC17 have nearly identical win-loss records?

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Adrian Peterson waaaay better than Portis

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

BREAKING NEWS - the sky is blue, Bill Gates is rich, and Tiger is better than Phil.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. One question - who would you propose starting over 26? Betts? Mason?? Rock??? Maybe Riggo would consider unretiring.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Piece 2, Jason Campbell

Poor day. His stats were better than his performance. On the INT. If this were 2008, he wouldn't have thrown it. In 2008, he was coached to minimize risk. He'd have run, gotten a few yards and lived to try and convert a 3rd and 5.

Campbell has gotten lots of encouragement to take more chances. What happened on the INT? Campbell took the risk.

His checkdown was a mistake. The strip/fumble/td by osi was a mostly a great play by osi. Yes, Campbell should have stepped up.

His passing accuracy was fine. If you want to win, Campbell the game mgr is a good player. Campbell the risk taker is going to lose some for you.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm not interested in crucifying Campbell.

I simply wish to peck away at his liver like a vulture would.

JC is Prometheus, and he's tied to the rock of criticism once again, as a result of his less than stellar play.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn doesn't truly trust JC17, but he also knows that his fate is tied to JC17.

The moment Zorn pulls JC17 in favor of Collins (barring injury), Zorn would basically be telling Snerrato: "I've failed to develop our starting QB the way you wanted".

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Interesting point, and while one game in the meadowlands (as dismal as it was) probably doesn't sink JC for the year, if he keeps struggling and I'm Zorn, I'm proactive with the benching and hope that Collins comes in and succeeds. At least then he can say "hey, wasn't my schemes it was the QB you forced on me", cause if JC continues to struggle he's gone no matter what if he sticks with him, at least a benching and success of the backup gives him a shot to stay as it fixes the blame on just one of them not both...

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Zorn isn't anywhere on Tomlin's grid.

Tomlin is a leader of men, and really doesn't like to chat it up with the press. The dude Tomlin is all about his business.

Tomlin doesn't need to come up with corny catch phrases for his players to buy what he's selling.

Zorn is the EXACT opposite of all of that.

All that Zorn last minute standing stuff, I don't buy it. Well it depends on how you look at it...

The coaching search was a JOKE. The front office was playing musical chairs, so in that case Zorn was indeed the last minute standing.

If you remember musical chairs, it isn't good when you aren't seated when the music stops.

F it, Does anybody have M. Shanahan's EMAIL ADD?

I think Snyder will allow Shanahan to allow him to run the team.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Do they believe in Zorn and Campbell?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 14, 2009

You keep forgetting team leader and future HOF Clinton Portis. Do they believe in him? Inquiring minds would like to know?

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

The moment Zorn pulls JC17 in favor of Collins (barring injury), Zorn would basically be telling Snerrato: "I've failed to develop our starting QB the way you wanted".

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:14 PM

Not really. Snyder and Cerrato told Zorn, by trying to dump JC, that they think he's hopeless.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

JC is Prometheus, and he's tied to the rock of criticism once again, as a result of his less than stellar play.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009

Before Campbell, Portis should be tied to that rock. Look at what he is paid? He is HOF according to pabrian? I've seen Riggins do more than this guy is doing when he had lousy, older lines.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

I'm still waiting for the JC excusers to defend this one:

"Campbell also was upset with himself that he checked into a running play on a third-and-8 in the second half. He said he lost track of how many yards the Redskins needed and that he should have checked into a pass play." - Matt Mosely ESPN

a 5 year veteran and 4 year starter can't keep track of down and distance.....that's inexcusable...

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Chia_Pet,
I take a Lactaid and order ice cream - any flavor I want, which might be a little farther out of the box that you were anticipating, but precisely what Zorn needs to do. From great desperation comes innovation. Zorn needs to mold this offense into something Campbell can throw in, and Portis can run in. If it means 4 wides and draw plays then so be it. If it means jumbo offense on every play, then so be it. Jim Zorn cannot keep saying that his players did not execute, or his QB is still learning the offense. Those excuses need to stop. It is time for the coach to change the offense so he can use his players effectively. Make a change, any change, but do something. I am not talking about gadget plays. I am talking about running a play that is different than what half the stadium knows you will run. You can put Zorn's play calling to the music of "We Will Rock You" by Queen: Run, run, pass... run, run, pass...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Portis is slowing (if not breaking) down. It's hard to admit because I love him, but it is undeniable that he's lost a step. He's an old 28, having (I believe) most carries of any back in the league over the past 5 seasons. I hope/think he could 1-2 more solid seasons left, but that horse is not too far from being sent out to pasture. Need to look for a replacement in 2010 or 2011 draft...and with our fearless, cunning FO, that shouldn't be a problem...oh wait...I mean, Vinny will probably 2 first rounders for LT next year....yea, he's got plenty of gas left in the tank...oh wait....someone help me out here please

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

a 5 year veteran and 4 year starter can't keep track of down and distance.....that's inexcusable...

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:23 PM

Or whether he's crossed the line of scrimmage when he's passing.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

A QB is always a big part of a loss, since they touch the ball on virtually every offensive play.

Hence, I was wondering how those who generally belittle stats as meaningless, and say it's all about wins-losses, clamored longingly for Jay Cutler despite the fact that he and JC17 have nearly identical win-loss records?


Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse


I certainly didn't clamor for Cutler. Quite the opposite. I said he benefitted from developing in the same system w/ same coaches for 3 years in Denver, and that he'd struggle big-time this season.

So far I'm right.

And a QB is not always a big part of a loss. There are plenty of instances when a QB plays well enough for a team to win, but he's let down by others.

Yesterday was not one of those times. JC is not singularly responsible for the loss, but his 2 turnovers were a big part of it.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

periculum

stats first 2 years

AP 601 for 3101 avg 5.2
CP 563 for 3099 avg 5.5

go root for the Vikings if you love adrian so much you fair weather fan player hater

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 14, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

You want to diminish Eli's TD b/c Manninghal made a nice play - fine. Is that the game we are gonna play?

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse
____________________________________________

Nope, I'm not playing a game. You're taking my comments out of context. I was speaking to Redcoats comment that Eli showed control of the offense by audibling into the TD pass. His audible was a success because of luck, not because he outsmarted the Redskins D.

You say that the Skins lost and that JC was a big part of that. I'm not arguing that, as he IS the QB and he's obviously going to share a load of the blame for a loss. I'm saying that the blame is just as much on the Redskins defense as it is on Campbell.

Why could the D not get off the field on 3rd downs? Why did they miss 3 tackles to allow a flukey TD? The defense made its share of plays, but they aren't immune to the blame game, and I think that if you're doing to throw Campbell under the bus for this loss then you're ignoring a big part of the problem.

Posted by: -swb | September 14, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Piece 2, Jason Campbell

Poor day. His stats were better than his performance. On the INT. If this were 2008, he wouldn't have thrown it. In 2008, he was coached to minimize risk. He'd have run, gotten a few yards and lived to try and convert a 3rd and 5.

Campbell has gotten lots of encouragement to take more chances. What happened on the INT? Campbell took the risk.

His checkdown was a mistake. The strip/fumble/td by osi was a mostly a great play by osi. Yes, Campbell should have stepped up.

His passing accuracy was fine. If you want to win, Campbell the game mgr is a good player. Campbell the risk taker is going to lose some for you.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

solid post, well said

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

The moment Zorn pulls JC17 in favor of Collins (barring injury), Zorn would basically be telling Snerrato: "I've failed to develop our starting QB the way you wanted".

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:14 PM

Not really. Snyder and Cerrato told Zorn, by trying to dump JC, that they think he's hopeless.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

And yet Zorn has also come out repeatedly in public and said he believes JC17 can run this offense.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I don't care about the fact the Giants are a damn good football team.

The Redskins did not play smart and aggressive. Our Defense was good, but we are overschemed and that will keep this Defense from destroying Teams.

What is keeping this Team from being a good pass rushing D' is the schemes and not the players.

They need to find out who can play up on the receivers and cut out all this playing back flag football coverage.

One huge point, Zorn needs to start benching players for mistakes. If you got a veteran Team where you pencil guys in and they don't produce and you don't practice the starters and they make game changing mistakes and you do not bench them, YOU ARE LOSERS!!!

FOOTBALL IS ABOUT PRODUCTION ON EVERY PLAY AND WHEN YOU MAKE MISTAKES LIKE THEY ARE MAKING, IT IS A COACHING MATTER THAT MUST BE CORRECTED OR YOU WILL LOOSE.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 14, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I also found it funny that Coughlin went for it on 4th down inside the Skins 5 yard line apparently with no worry that the Skins offense would make them pay for taking that chance. So what does Zorn do in response? He runs three straight ugly running plays and punts it back off to the Giants, who in turn, end up right back in Skins territory. Its like two boxers going at it, Boxer 1 throws a vicious left hook, but leaves himself open for a counter, only the counter turns out to be a weak and timid jab that grazes Boxer 1 shoulder.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

When Zorn was in Seattle, Holmgren benched Hasselbeck during his second year under Zorn in favor of Trent Dilfer due to Hasselbeck's erratic play.

We all know Hasselbeck settled down and became a Pro-Bowl QB after that. I honestly don't think Zorn would be afraid to bench JC17 if he thought it would help the team.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Notorious_LMG,
I don't think Portis is done quite yet, but he did have some trouble getting to the end on those sweep plays yesterday. He looked good on the long run, however, so there still is gas left in the tank. I think the team should take a chance on a running back sitting on another team's developmental roster to get some speed in the mix. This would be a good week to do it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Campbell played bad don't get me wrong, but when does the finger ever get pointed at our supposed superstars.

Here are my list of guys who cost the game in no order.

Moss - Couldn't get open
Campbell - Played with his head in the clouds.
Portis - Step up and make some plays (after the first run, he did nothing.
Landry - Cant tackle and out of position
Hall - Reminded me of Deon trying to tackle.


Posted by: Redskins001 | September 14, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Not really. Snyder and Cerrato told Zorn, by trying to dump JC, that they think he's hopeless.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:20 PM

---------

True.

Coach Zen's fate is not tied to Jason Campbell.

At the end of the season, JC will be gone, but the head coach will remain in place.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

F it, Does anybody have M. Shanahan's EMAIL ADD?

I think Snyder will allow Shanahan to allow him to run the team.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

With Shanahan, Blache is gone. Not saying that is a bad thing though.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 14, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

The moment Zorn pulls JC17 in favor of Collins (barring injury), Zorn would basically be telling Snerrato: "I've failed to develop our starting QB the way you wanted".

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:14 PM

Not really. Snyder and Cerrato told Zorn, by trying to dump JC, that they think he's hopeless.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

And yet Zorn has also come out repeatedly in public and said he believes JC17 can run this offense.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

..sorry, the last part of my post got cut off.

I was also going to say that it is no secret that the FO guys don't beleive in JC17, but when Zorn comes out and says he believes in JC17 and then JC turns around a fails to perform, even the FO has to start to wonder if Zorn has the eye for developing QBs that they hoped he would.

Posted by: p1funk | September 14, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

If we have cap space, arent there a couple available DB's out there, McAllister and others that maybe we can try out...Smoot is not the answer, either are the other idiots behind him, Hall was embarassed - alot.

Not that it would matter who is playing, you cant give WR 10 yards of room and hope to cover them when they flash across the middle and you are 10 yards away, esp when the TE are drawing the LBs down the middle of the field.

As much as I am mad at the play calling on the Offense, I am just as pissed at the play calling of the Defense.

I will say again, I am not sure these guys want to play for Zorn, sure does not look like it, no one looked like they showed up to play, minus ARE - which kills me to type, Cooley, Fletcher, and AH. Moss for a veteran sure let the DB in his head, Kelly was non-existent and not even sure they looked his way..WTF! We are down in the redzone, why not line up Mitchell and Kelly outside and Moss and Cooley inside, throw up to the trees and let them go get it...too hard for Zorn to think that up. This was with the Gints DB's not being great and hurt and we could not do much, that is scary. We never have that killer instinct when we know that a team suffers at something, why the F not?

Why was Rinehart inactive and BMW active, is Rinehart that bad - why is he on the F'n team then. I thought Heyer played well.

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 14, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Piece 3, 3rd downs

OK, below are the yards to go and if we converted, there is a 'yes'. 5 times we faced 3rd and 8 or longer. No conversions. We were 4/6 on conversions under 5 yards.

18
10
8
8
2 yes
4 yes
2
5 yes
8
6
5
2 yes

Aside from the obvious -- that its easier to convert shorter than longer -- what is striking is how many 3rd and long situations this team was in.

The jints only had 2 3rd and 8 plays all game. Getting to a manageable down and distance is very important for this team.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

F it, Does anybody have M. Shanahan's EMAIL ADD?

Posted by: RedDMV | September 14, 2009 1:19 PM

Sorry I can't help you.

Posted by: MARTY_S_EMAIL_ADD | September 14, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

At the end of the season, JC will be gone, but the head coach will remain in place.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

completely disagree, if we finish anywhere but in the playoffs Zorn is out...

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

stats first 2 years

AP 601 for 3101 avg 5.2
CP 563 for 3099 avg 5.5

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 14, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Jason and Eli have actually performed at about the same level over the past couple seasons. The guy who broke away from the pack (in a positive direction) is Philip Rivers. All three are 'game manager' types rather than gunslingers a la Jay Cutler or Drew Brees.

Of course, Eli has that Super Bowl victory to his credit. But in the last quarter of last season, he showed many of the same flaws that Campbell does: holding the ball too long, checking down from his WRs, etc. If you look at yesterday's game, Smith and Manningham (and the Skins' subpar tackling) contributed mightily to any statistical superiority for Manning.

Meanwhile, Brandon Jacobs averaged 2.9 yards. That no doubt was a goal for Blache's defense. But Bradshaw got five yards a carry and looks more dangerous than Derrick Ward -- if he can stay healthy.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 14, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

One huge point, Zorn needs to start benching players for mistakes.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 14, 2009 1:27 PM

----------

OK.

Bench Hall and replace him with????


Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

periculum

stats first 2 years
AP 601 for 3101 avg 5.2
CP 563 for 3099 avg 5.5

go root for the Vikings if you love adrian so much you fair weather fan player hater

Awww poor pabrian ... hmmm it rhymes with adrian? Sorry dude I could shove stats down your throat starting with yesterday's game stats. But we will resist the temptation.

Again, YOU CLAIM HE IS AN HOF player. He is under 30. These are guys who lead their team. ON drives, 1st downs, big plays and scores. So much so the other team has to put "spy's" to follow Portis. That's what they do with Peterson and Westbrook. I'm not seeing that. He is not a Riggins, he isn't even a Gerald Riggs from my perspective.

BENCH PORTIS

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

DeAngelo and Moss's play really p*ssed me off..They were nowhere NEAR as intense as they have to be for a game in the NFC East..Skins looked like they were still in the exhibition season, Giants didn't..I'm sick of Eli and his mouth just missing a sack and throwing a fingertip catch for a first down- will somebody please take a lead pipe to his knees and Nancy Kerrigan his a**??? Zorn and Campbell need to get their heads focused , too (he said with the traditional Monday hangover)..At least they partially showed up and didnt get blowed away, I guess..

Posted by: frak | September 14, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Why was Rinehart inactive and BMW active, is Rinehart that bad - why is he on the F'n team then. I thought Heyer played well.

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 14, 2009

Finally, an intelligent question!? I was beginning to wonder?

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

completely disagree, if we finish anywhere but in the playoffs Zorn is out...

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:31 PM

----------

Agree to disagree.

The whole "as Campbell goes so does the HC" is made up.

No substance there, none at all, and also inherently unfair.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

BTW, if you got a good look at the blocking for Portis on the first run, it was perfect. I think thats the "slash" that the chargers always run, but not sure. Anyway, if the team can run more of that I think they will be better for it.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 14, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Notorious_LMG,
I don't think Portis is done quite yet, but he did have some trouble getting to the end on those sweep plays yesterday. He looked good on the long run, however, so there still is gas left in the tank. I think the team should take a chance on a running back sitting on another team's developmental roster to get some speed in the mix. This would be a good week to do it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I've been waiting all day to say this - I AGREE!

There are usually gems to be culled out there at the RB spot. I'm guessing half of the current starters were drafted beyond round 3 (or undrafted, e.g., Ryan Grant I think?). That needs to be one of our scouting dept/FO's main goals right now. I too think that CP can carry the load for another season, MAYBE two...but that's pushing it. I cannot see him being our feature back beyond next year, and even though Snyder loves him, they won't pay him $12 million/yr to ride the pine.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

PLEASE READ

I love reading the “panic and hysteria”. Nothing like this blog after a loss. Allow me to present some actual factual info, to bring some clarity to this blog.

FACT: The Skins lost by 6 points to the defending NFC East Champs, a team with the best D-Line in football, and quite possibly the best overall O-Line in football. Oh yeah, ON THE ROAD.

FACT: 90% of the “bloggers” here act as if the Skins just lost 45-7 to the Lions.

FACT: This loss had NOTHING to do with Jim Zorn. This loss had everything to do with Fred Smoot & Deangelo Hall making mediocre receivers look like perennial pro-bowlers. And Jason Campbell making the biggest mistake of his career. (Yes, no stepping up in a pocket THAT BIG is inexcusable). If Fred Smoot and DHall learn how to play NFL Football, and JC takes away that one bone-headed error, the Skins win, and everyone loves Zorn. You people crack me up.

FACT: Wins cure all ills. If the Skins come out next week and crush the Rams (as they should), all will be forgotten. And if the Giants go into Dallas next week and crush the Boys, then many of you may be singing to a different tune. We will see. Only time will tell.

Posted by: cj658 | September 14, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I'm still waiting for the JC excusers to defend this one:

"Campbell also was upset with himself that he checked into a running play on a third-and-8 in the second half. He said he lost track of how many yards the Redskins needed and that he should have checked into a pass play." - Matt Mosely ESPN

a 5 year veteran and 4 year starter can't keep track of down and distance.....that's inexcusable...

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:23 PM

Worse than McNabb not knowing NFL games could end in a tie until last year's Iggles tied with the Bungles! Worse than Michael Vick killing dogs! Inexcusable!!! Fire him now!!!

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 11:29 AM

(sigh...)

15-1? We don't know how Zorn & company can handle the winning before doing something stupid like running that reverse play to screw up the momentum. Sorry, I'm a little pissed here but I do love your optimism though.

Posted by: RedCherokee | September 14, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I thought Heyer played well.
Posted by: mhartz1 | September 14, 2009

Which is why they kept running left even though the Giants knew they were coming that way. And the Giants pass rush was decidedly overloading the right side.

No, he did not have a good game. Unfortunately.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Do you people really think Shanahan is the answer. You know Snyder will only give him control until he gets board, then he would hire Cerrato back and get a new coach and give him no power. Zorn isn't the problem it is the owner. We have the WORST OWNER in football.

Posted by: Redskins001 | September 14, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Do you people really think Shanahan is the answer. You know Snyder will only give him control until he gets bored, then he would hire Cerrato back and get a new coach and give him no power. Zorn isn't the problem it is the owner. We have the WORST OWNER in football.

Posted by: Redskins001 | September 14, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

A little bit on Mike Shanahan and his traveling partner/Def coordinator Bob Slowik

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/08/03/NFL.takes/2.html

Halfway down the page.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 14, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Before game:
NY weaknesses-receivers; def backs.
Wash strength-receivers; def backs.

Someone forgot to tell NY what they were supposed to suck at.

We made their weaknesses look strong and our strengths look like crap on a stick with a side order of some tasty ARE.

Posted by: will_ga | September 14, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Piece 4, Albert

Albert played well enough, definitely a force in the middle. We did much better vs the run than we have in previous games vs the jints. Still, many are on Albert for playing so few plays and taking plays off.

I have no idea if this was a factor, but Albert was reported sick about a week ago and was out of practice for several days.

Was Albert limited somewhat by a combo of recent sickness, warmer weather, a good OL and the long drives the jints managed (with very small breaks when the Skins offense was on the field, especially in the first half)?

I'm thinking Albert will be fine, but he wasn't quite where he needs to be.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

FACT: The Skins lost by 6 points to the defending NFC East Champs

Posted by: cj658 | September 14, 2009 1:36 PM

----------

FACT: A loss is a loss.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Redskins-Giants: The morning after

September 14, 2009 10:28 AM

Posted by ESPN.com's Matt Mosley

I'm sitting on a plane at LaGuardia Airport, so this will be brief. I came away from Sunday's game with a belief that the Giants' defense will be dominant this season. They didn't have starters Michael Boley, Aaron Ross and nickel corner Kevin Dockery, but it didn't matter in a 23-17 win over the Redskins that should not have been that close. Here are some quick hits on what I took away from Sunday's game:

* Giants cornerback Corey Webster is an elite player who doesn't receive enough attention. The interception he made on the sideline was brilliant in that he somehow avoided contact with the receiver and then managed to keep his feet down. There are lots of receivers in this league who don't make that catch.
* Redskins running back Clinton Portis said Jim Zorn's offense would be "bombs over Baghdad," but that never materialized. Jason Campbell only took one deep shot, and he overthrew Santana Moss. Once the Giants realized the Skins were not going to throw the ball downfield, it made things a lot easier on them. I was impressed with how Campbell kept his composure when everything was falling apart in the first half.
* Campbell can't check into a running play on third-and-8. He knows that, but it still happened. He lost track of what the down and distance was. He and Zorn have to do a better job communicating.
* I want to call LaRon Landry an elite safety, but he does too many foolish things for me to say that. He made a brilliant, diving play on the ball that DeAngelo Hall picked off. But he also had a dumb 15-yard penalty for a late hit and he's way too concerned with going for the big hit.
* At times, I thought Stephon Heyer looked OK at right tackle, but he got crossed up by Justin Tuck a couple times when the Skins had a chance to get back in the game.
* Without a running game, Campbell's not going to have a chance. After that first play, the Giants effectively took any semblance of the running game away from the Skins.
* I know that Boley's going to start, but Chase Blackburn is a really good football player. Every time there was a huge pileup, he seemed to be in the middle of it. General manager Jerry Reese and his staff have done a great job of creating depth in key areas. Dallas hasn't done that, and the same thing goes for the Redskins.
* Hope you guys saw that quote Brandon Jacobs gave me Sunday evening. He thinks the Cowboys should've scheduled the Lions for their first regular-season game in Cowboys Stadium.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

"And yet Zorn has also come out repeatedly in public and said he believes JC17 can run this offense.

Posted by: p1funk"

That's because JC did run the offense. That's what a majority of his bashers are missing. The aerial game was run with very good efficiency. A mental lapse in not stepping up in the pocket and a mental lapse in forcing an ill-advised throw on a broken play are not indicative of how JC handled the playbook. And those are both correctable mistakes.

Again, I don't think there's been a poster on this blog that has completely absolved Campbell from this loss, but if his detractors can't see (or refuse to acknowledge) that the general flow of the passing game is markedly improved over last season, then there's nothing that can be said at this point.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

That reverse play was Randle El's mistake for not throwing the ball away, not a bad play call.

Posted by: Redskins001 | September 14, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Piece 5, DeAngelo Hall

He looked a lot like the guy who played for the Raiders.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Again, YOU CLAIM HE IS AN HOF player. He is under 30. These are guys who lead their team. ON drives, 1st downs, big plays and scores. So much so the other team has to put "spy's" to follow Portis. That's what they do with Peterson and Westbrook. I'm not seeing that. He is not a Riggins, he isn't even a Gerald Riggs from my perspective.

BENCH PORTIS

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

bud, you keep saying "under 30"...with all due respect- what's your point? That means nothing. 28 is middle aged at best for an RB, and he had taken more punishment than most guys his age.

And you keep saying "Bench Portis" without offering up a solution. So I ask again - if not 26, then who?? Would you start 46? Try to trade/sign someone else? It's moot, I know - no chance Zorn (Snyder) will bench him, but I am curious who you think is a better alternative at this point?

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

The whole "as Campbell goes so does the HC" is made up.

No substance there, none at all, and also inherently unfair.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:35 PM

I think Snyder and Cerrato will assess Zorn independently of Campbell and of the season's outcome. They recognize that he's playing a weak hand with Campbell -- that's why they tried to dump him. A good season from Campbell will help him, a bad one won't necessarily cripple him.

Zorn will be assessed on play calling, team leadership, game management, and player relations and motivation, etc. Yesterday's outing was bad for him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Piece 6, London Fletcher

Still a beast.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

wow....just.....wow...some really good intelligent posts today....gotta give some of you guys credit, nicely done...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

That Randle El reverse was a momentum killer. Seemed to take the wind out of the sails.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1,
I think it is sad that London Fletcher's fantastic day was marred by a loss. Clearly, having Haynesworth in front of him eating up blockers allows Fletcher to make more plays. I particularly like the stop on Jacobs: all forward motion ceased when Fletcher put the hit on him. I have to believe Jacobs is feeling really sore today.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 14, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Campbell from this loss, but if his detractors can't see (or refuse to acknowledge) that the general flow of the passing game is markedly improved over last season, then there's nothing that can be said at this point.

Posted by: psps23 | September 14, 2009 1:40 PM

----------

Good flow?

That was the like the Colorado River running through Mexico.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

I think we need to wait and check out the next three games: rams,lions,bucs. We should win all three, if we don't then we are in serious trouble.

Posted by: Redskins001 | September 14, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Zorn will be assessed on play calling, team leadership, game management, and player relations and motivation, etc. Yesterday's outing was bad for him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:41 PM

----------

Agree to agree.

Poor outing all around.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

That reverse play was Randle El's mistake for not throwing the ball away, not a bad play call.


Posted by: Redskins001 | September 14, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

very true. he was way outside the tackle box, chuck it in the stands. As a former QB that was inexcusable, killed the drive. Even our POG had a huge mental blunder...

Bottom line we put forth a very poor team effort, yet were still largely competitive with an elite team.

Prediction: we beat the Rams by 14 or more, get our mojo back, use the soft upcoming schedule to find a good rhythym on offense and get some confidence, and get to the bye week at 5-2. I will repost this - right or wrong - in 6 weeks.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Piece 7, the OL

About what I would have expected vs the best DL in football. Pass pro was reasonable, though osi made a game changing play. We struggled in run blocking, especially to the right. After the first play, the run game was pretty much non-existant.

At least we didn't wear out Portis by giving LaDell Betts about 1/3 of the touches. Wait, Betts had only 2 carries for -1 yards. Never mind.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

The St. Louis Rams defeated the Washington Redskins last year.


Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

ATTN: Chia Pet

FACT: The Giants are the best defense the Skins will face all year (by a long shot). Have you looked at our schedule??

FACT: I was simply stating facts, not once did I say this was an “acceptable” loss. 0-1 is 0-1. I was simply commenting on the mass hysteria on this blog. I simply said the Skins lost by 6 points to a great football team on the road, that’s gonna happen every now and then.

FACT: You are no different from all the other loons. Relax and chill out and watch the game next Sunday.

Posted by: cj658 | September 14, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

lmg, yeah, I'm thinking along those lines as well...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 14, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Can someone define "Fact" for cj? I love the posters who are so self important they post "Please read" in bold and than think if they put "Fact" in front of their own conjectures than they are more valid.

Dude, we are all up here spewing, scrapin, emoting and thinking aloud. Its called "why we like football" and why the NFL makes mega-bucks. So stop with delusion they you have some heightened read on it.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

OK back to JC - I will predict that he ends the year with a QB rating of 85 (by way of comparison, Eli's career QB avg is 76) or better and we win 9 games or more. Not great but better than average on both accounts. MrRedskin, I'd love to make a friendly, gentleman's wager on those. Whatcha think?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | September 14, 2009 1:02 PM |
--------------------------

I hope he does, because I've been on his bandwagon since he was drafted.

But I stepped off yesterday, and I won't get back on until he shows me something against a better-than-average opponent.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 14, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

FACT: You are no different from all the other loons. Relax and chill out and watch the game next Sunday.

Posted by: cj658 | September 14, 2009 1:50 PM

Hey, hey. Not only is this an opinion, rather than a fact, it is very wrong-headed. Chia-pet is a water-filled ceramic figure in a sunny window. Us loons are out here in the wilds, digging for worms. He's not one of us. He leads the good life.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

FACT: You are no different from all the other loons. Relax and chill out and watch the game next Sunday.

Posted by: cj658 | September 14, 2009 1:50 PM

----------

No.

You relax.

I take no consolation in losing to Giants.

Ever.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

1 Sun, Sep 13 at NY Giants 4:15 PM
2 Sun, Sep 20 St. Louis 1:00 PM
3 Sun, Sep 27 at Detroit 1:00 PM
4 Sun, Oct 4 Tampa Bay 1:00 PM
5 Sun, Oct 11 at Carolina 1:00 PM
6 Sun, Oct 18 Kansas City 1:00 PM
7 Mon, Oct 26 Philadelphia 8:30 PM

u think we come out of this 5-2? eh, maybe, but I doubt it, Philly is a tough game if McNabb is healthy and even though Delhomme stunk up the joint worse than JC Carolina on the road is a tough game and don't sleep on the Lions, we needed a Moss punt return to beat them last year and I watched that NO game yesterday, Brees was dominant and single handily won that game but Detroit was in it almost the whole way and Calvin Johnson and Kevin Smith are legit, not too mention we don't have Brees it takes JC half a season to throw 6 tds.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

NEed. New. Post.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 14, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Here is what really bothers fans, The fact that we played a game and it looked like there was no true effort to win.

All fans want their team to win, but the majority of fans will be happy if their team looses but showed that they gave it their all and left it all on the field.

you dont get that feeling from watching our team, especially the offense.

There was neve a sensed of urgency in fact the game looked so much like last year it is scary, clock mismanagement, dont go to a hurry up until you are down by two scores with only 5 or 6 minutes left in the game if that.

no aggresive play calling, it looked like their were content on calling and running the plays they worked on whether or not they were working.

P.s. on JC audible, he audibled to a play because the linebackers were blitzing up the middle, if Stephon Heyer holds his block then Betts is gone for a thirty yard gain because there was no one behind the blitz. so thats one of those it works he is a brilliant and if it doesnt he is a moron

Posted by: GreatOne1 | September 14, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

FACT

Can someone define "Fact" for cj?

OPINION

I love the posters who are so self important they post "Please read" in bold and than think if they put "Fact" in front of their own conjectures than they are more valid.

FACT

Dude, we are all up here spewing, scrapin, emoting and thinking aloud. Its called "why we like football" and why the NFL makes mega-bucks.

OPINION

So stop with delusion they you have some heightened read on it.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 1:54 PM

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

If this was JC17 and Zorn, what would RI posters be saying?


Fox sticking with Delhomme as Panthers QB
By MIKE CRANSTON, AP Sports Writer

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP)—Jake Delhomme is still Carolina’s starter—even after 11 turnovers in two games.

Coach John Fox defended his beleaguered quarterback Monday, a day after he threw four interceptions and lost a fumble in the Panthers’ 38-10 loss to Philadelphia.

Pressured all game and making poor throws and decisions, Delhomme nearly matched his six-turnover performance in Carolina’s blowout playoff loss in January. Fox pulled Delhomme after he threw consecutive interceptions in the third quarter Sunday.

But Fox said Delhomme’s role “hasn’t changed.” He compared Delhomme to Tiger Woods and Roger Federer because they don’t win every tournament.

Fox said backup Josh McCown has a sprained foot and knee. He said the injury doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll seek to sign another QB.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

And you keep saying "Bench Portis" without offering up a solution. So I ask again - if not 26, then who?? Would you start 46? Try to trade/sign someone else? It's moot, I know - no chance Zorn (Snyder) will bench him, but I am curious who you think is a better alternative at this point?

@LMG,

The point I am attempting to make is to consider the performance of the whole team before jumping down Campbell's throat. I didn't think he was great, he was in last year's last game. He did not show that yesterday. But the running game has really underperformed for the last 8-10 games. And that points to Portis first. If I am coaching this team with a west coast offense I use the short passing game which looked effective yesterday to Cooley, ARE, and Betts. The rush has had diminishing returns for those 8-10 and may actually adversely affect drives at this point! If you bench Portis that means you are going with a full-tilt west coast like Philly and others run. And let's face it this OL is better suited to pass blocking (Heyer,Thomas) than it is to run blocking. Go with your strengths.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I am with LMG and Greg, 5-2 at the bye is still realistic. I will even take 4-3.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 14, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

P.s. on JC audible, he audibled to a play because the linebackers were blitzing up the middle, if Stephon Heyer holds his block then Betts is gone for a thirty yard gain because there was no one behind the blitz. so thats one of those it works he is a brilliant and if it doesnt he is a moron

Posted by: GreatOne1

JC17 is already on record stating that he made a mistake on the audible because he lost track of the yardage needed for the first down on the audible play. So, he already sorta kinda admitted he's a moron.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

PS, I saw that the express or examiner in their picks for the season on friday, had Skins losing to Detroit and going 7-9... WTF.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 14, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

FACT: I was simply stating facts, not once did I say this was an “acceptable” loss. 0-1 is 0-1. I was simply commenting on the mass hysteria on this blog. I simply said the Skins lost by 6 points to a great football team on the road, that’s gonna happen every now and then.

FACT: You are no different from all the other loons. Relax and chill out and watch the game next Sunday.


Posted by: cj658 | September 14, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Loss by only 6 huh? The concern here is not that they lost to the Giants, its how they lost to the Giants. They showed no improvement from last yr and Zorn' playcalling has been just as bad as last yr. That's why the uproar. I don't give a crap if they beat the Rams and then get whipped by a good team because, "They have a good defense." Fact, they looked like crap in the preseason and its spilled over to the regular season. Fact: The Giants had their starting CB and nickel CB missing, and Zorn did nothing to exploit that.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

I am with LMG and Greg, 5-2 at the bye is still realistic. I will even take 4-3.

I contend that to do this. To improve dramatically overnight they will have to replace running the ball with the short passing game. They now have the weapons to go full west coast. If Zorn wants to save his job this is what he is going to have to do.

On defense Blache is going to have to adjust to make up for the weaknesses in the secondary. Linebacking is a work in progress but so far so good. Fletcher leads the way. DL is what it is in Blache's system. The system probably does not fit Haynesworth unless he is moved to DE.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Is it me or has RI had some of the lamest gameday/post gameday/day after gameday posts official posts ever this opening game?

Cap space? Kiss and Make up Moss? links to the newsprint columns?

I am souring on RI 2.0....

(caveat is the commenter convo has been boffo!)

Posted by: chrislarry | September 14, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

The score didn't really reflect how badly it seemed we were being outplayed. The game just had a "we're getting crushed" vibe to it. In hindsight I think the bend but don't break nature of our defense was in full force & they did come up big on short yardage plays. Actually we might to just spot teams 8 or 9 yards so they always have 3rd and short instead of 3rd and long cause we clearly struggle with that.

Posted by: will_ga | September 14, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

JC17 is already on record stating that he made a mistake on the audible because he lost track of the yardage needed for the first down on the audible play. So, he already sorta kinda admitted he's a moron.

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | September 14, 2009

Or he was protecting his lineman from the "limelight". Its what good QB's do. Heyer did not have a good game. He is better suited to pass blocking but still needs work.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

cl--Let's wait until he posts his "Here's what happened, here's what I think" bit. I've found that to be pretty good value. Jasno used to come up about now with "Monday Afternoon Halfback."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

I'm still waiting for the JC excusers to defend this one:

"Campbell also was upset with himself that he checked into a running play on a third-and-8 in the second half. He said he lost track of how many yards the Redskins needed and that he should have checked into a pass play." - Matt Mosely ESPN

a 5 year veteran and 4 year starter can't keep track of down and distance.....that's inexcusable...

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:23 PM

This is weak point to make. Too many examples to where professional, veteran people make mistakes in the heat of the game, even the great Joe Gibbs.

Posted by: TWISI | September 14, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Long time reader, infrequent poster (under various different names), life-long Redskins fan here. In my depression about last night's game, I started to wonder where exactly the 'Skins fell in winning percentage since Gibbs retired the first time. So I did a little research curtesy of Wikipedia into the regular season records of the various franchises from the 1993 season to last season, and this is what I found:

32) Lions: worst record, with 91 wins and a .355 winning %
31) Texans: .357 winning % since 2002 (first year)
30) Bengals: 94 wins/.367 winning %
29) Browns: .370 winning % (they didn't exist for 3 years)
28) Cardinals: 97 wins/.379 winning %
27) Saints: 110 wins/ .430 winning %
26) Raiders: 111 wins/ .434 winning %
25) REDSKINS: 112 wins/ .438 winning %

I didn't bother checking the teams with obviously higher records (Patriots, Giants, Dallas, Pittsburgh, etc.), but I did check any "questionable" team: the Jets, Bucs, Rams, 49ers, Titans, Chiefs, Bills, Dolphins, Falcons, Bears, Panthers, and Seahawks, all of whom had better records since 1993. This is depressing, but about what I expected. Personally, I think historical winning percentages say alot about ownership. Over this many years - win alot or lose alot - it's the system and the ownership, not just the players. This isn't necessarily an anti-Snyder rant (especially since he's only responsible for the team since 1999), but I think the way the team has been run from the top is a big reason for our #25 ranking. Thoughts?

Posted by: skinsfan713 | September 14, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

I'm not entirely convinced the season is lost, especially since the Redskins should be no worse than 5-2 at the bye week, but I'd be bummed if the Redskins hired Shanahan.

I think this franchise needs Bill Cowher - someone to really light a fire under these guys, not help them to stay medium.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | September 14, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

The Giants had their starting CB and nickel CB missing, and Zorn did nothing to exploit that.

Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 2:03 PM

This, to me, is the most galling thing about yesterday's game...

Even if this was overlooked in the original gameplan, whatever happened to game-time adjustments?

Why does it seem like the offensive gameplan NEVER exploits the other teams weaknesses? It's not like we have Riggo and the Hogs, and no one can stop them.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Just remember that last year, the Skins actually did look worse against the Giants; they were unable to slow them down on defense at ALL in the first half last year, and the offense produced even less than they did yesterday (not to mention the lack of a hurry up offense last year, down by two scores under 7 minutes left to play)

By a very razor thin margin, they played the Giants better than they did in the first game last year.

Than they went out and won 6 of the next 7 games.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 14, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

we can look at it this way...we will not have the pressure of being undefeated , the constant media, always being on ESPN

Posted by: connskins | September 14, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: TWISI | September 14, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

I'm still waiting for the JC excusers to defend this one:

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 14, 2009 1:23 PM

This is weak point to make. Too many examples to where professional, veteran people make mistakes in the heat of the game, even the great Joe Gibbs.

Posted by: TWISI | September 14, 2009 2:08 PM |

That's your defense? Other people do it? And when they do, they are roundly criticized.

When Payton Manning does it he has an established record to fall back on. When JC does it, he's got nothing.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 14, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Piece 8, The DL

I liked much of what I saw. Carter was better and the INT came because the DL forced eli backwards and eli doesn't throw well when going backwards. I already mentioned Albert, I thought his sidekicks at DT did well also. Daniels was a mixed bag. Lorenzo didn't make many plays, but he made a great diving tackle that saved a potential huge gain on a running play -- then recovered a fumble later in that same drive.

Both turnovers came from DL pressure -- and that is a good sign since we played a good OL with a vet QB.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 14, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

To all those that constantly type stats here's an example of why they don't mean anything.
South Carolina outgained Georgia in most every STAT yall think is important, yet lost the game.

Again, stats are for those that didn't play the games.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | September 14, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Loss by only 6 huh? The concern here is not that they lost to the Giants, its how they lost to the Giants. They showed no improvement from last yr and Zorn' playcalling has been just as bad as last yr. That's why the uproar. I don't give a crap if they beat the Rams and then get whipped by a good team because, "They have a good defense." Fact, they looked like crap in the preseason and its spilled over to the regular season. Fact: The Giants had their starting CB and nickel CB missing, and Zorn did nothing to exploit that.
Posted by: ga8085 | September 14, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

HUH?? No improvement?? Did you actually watch the Giants games last year. They scored more points yesterday than they did in both games combined against the Giants last year. Yesterday’s game could have went either way, depending on a few plays here and there. Last year’s games were TOTAL dominations, PERIOD.

Again, another prime of example of RI hysteria at its finest. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: cj658 | September 14, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

@skinsfan713,

Although they did get to the playoffs twice under Gibbs 2.0. Once under Norv when Snyder first took ownership. Before that "the son of JKC".

I guess I agree. I think a model similar to what they have in Miami, perhaps with a Gibbs as true president/GM hiring a GM and head coach plus assistants. Cowher would also work.

Snyder needs to exclude himself entirely from football operations if he ever wants to see a winning season again.

Posted by: periculum | September 14, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

They looked much worse than this at the same point last year vs. the same opponent.

It's disappointing that they lost and that some of the same deficiencies were evident, but it is the first game of the season.

If this team can beat the teams that they are supposed to, that's the step I expect to see from them this year.

How they play against the Rams will be far more telling to me, than a loss against the Giants in New York. I expected them to lose the opener.


Posted by: dfbovey | September 14, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

We need another Quarterback. Dum Dum cannot read defenses.

Posted by: foodcritic101 | September 14, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Best tackle-Fletcher hammering Jacobs back 5 feet. Worst Offensive Play-Every first down run.

Posted by: ThrowItToMyTeam | September 14, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Again, stats are for those that didn't play the games.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | September 14, 2009 2:12 PM

Stats indicate trends, and are therefore extremely useful. Obviously, points scored and points given up in a particular game is the pair of stats that trumps all others.

I'm always amused when Coach Blache cringes because someone points to the lack of sacks and turnovers by the D, but is quick to note the D is ranked in the top 5. Both sets of stats are correct, and taken together they paint a pretty accurate picture of the performance of last year's D.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 14, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

How they play against the Rams will be far more telling to me, than a loss against the Giants in New York. I expected them to lose the opener.


Posted by: dfbovey | September 14, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I agree...the more comments I read, the more I think that the differences in opinions on this board are due to differences in expectations...apparently there are some here who are ticked that the Skins lost yesterday b/c they feel this is a potential 12-win Super Bowl contender. There are others that don't share that opinion. I think with a mediocre offensive line, an aging RB, and lack of a #2 WR, this is a 9 win team...thus the lack of panic when we fall to the Giants on the road

Posted by: mattylight | September 14, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

One huge point, Zorn needs to start benching players for mistakes.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 14, 2009 1:27 PM
----------

OK.

Bench Hall and replace him with????

Posted by: Chia_Pet | September 14, 2009 1:32 PM

Chia_Pet

Thats precisely my point. These guys starting and making the same mistakes know they are going to start regardless. So bench them with?????. It doesen't matter who the guy is. You send the message to the starter and the Team that mistakes will land your butt on the bench.

I gaurantee you that Landry will stop making big hits on thin air and the personal foul penalties will stop.

We are playing with the same mentality from before Zorn got here. He has not changed it that I can tell. This Team is not hungry because we are penciling in the same guys for years now and they have no incentive to perform like winners.

Deangelo Hall, Fred Smoot, and Laron Landry, I would bench for at least two series or more next game with the water boy if I had too.

It is necessary, because it is not physical play that is the problem it is mental and they need to know that it is all about winning and performing. Check all the mistakes and shenagans at the front door and that goes for Moss also.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 14, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Stats indicate trends,Posted by: Alan4

no, they may indicate a trend. Again it is a useless endeavor as you mentioned in your post about coach Blache. IMO

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | September 14, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"JC did not have an overall bad day. The mistakes he made were costly and he needs more pocket awareness, but overall he did ok."

Not even by the most liberal standards of mediocrity was that performance "OK." It's the NFL, and if you're still having to be spoon fed after four years, it's time to get yourself a university coaching assistant gig.

Why do I get that Spurrier vibe off of Zorn? It's always the plan is great, just the "externals" are a little problemmatic. Dude..the whole game is about the unknown and having guys who are prepared enough with the basics to adjust. Campbell, for whatever reason, doesn't get it. He won't get it. He had a solid college career and that's it. Can you say, Heath Schuler?

Posted by: InRealAmerica | September 14, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

What we THOUGHT vs What we GOT for Game 1

THOUGHT:
Zorn year 2= Gibbs year 2

GOT:
Zorn year 2= Spurrier year 2


THOUGHT:
Campbell= Doug Williams

GOT:
Campbell= Heath Shuler


THOUGHT:
Orakpo= Wilbur Marshall

GOT:
Orakpo= Invisible Man


THOUGHT:
Haynesworth= Reggie White

GOT:
Haynesworth= Dana Stubblefield


THOUGHT:
Hall= Shut down corner

GOT:
Hall= 20 yard cushion and a missed tackle


THOUGHT:
Healthy O-Line= Portis running wild

GOT:
Healthy O-Line= Portis for 2 yards and cloud of dust


THOUGHT:
Moss, Kelly, RandelEl= The Possee

GOT:
Moss, Kelly, RandelEl= Never open (except for ARE, who can get open but keeps getting tackled by those yard markers)


THOUGHT:
Vinny Cerrato= Worst 'GM' ever

GOT:
Hey, we got one right!!

Posted by: jgarrisn | September 14, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm trying to root for Jason Campbell but I'm loosing faith quickly. I'm almost convinced that he cannot or will not attempt to buy time with his feet when plays break down. He may be "OVER COACHED", it's as if he is thinking too much and trying to please his coach by not doing anything that the coach has not "authorized" for that particular play. If the 1st,2nd & 3rd reads are not there he seems to go blank. Mark Sanchez is playing better right now. Stafford and the lions put up 27 points. I'm starting to believe that Jason is the problem or Zorn is not allowing him to use his natural ability or maybe he is "OVER COACHED!!!!!!!!!!almost robotic

Posted by: pennstate1 | September 14, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I was just listening to Doc Walker and he believes that Campbell could have won the game for us and we let this one get away.

He says that Campbell is not taking the next step to lead this Team like he should and he doesn't know if Campbell is capable of actually doing it.

He goes on to say that Portis, Moss, the leaders of the Team are not owning up to getting the job done.

He does not understand why Campbell will not run with the ball.

Does Campbell feel in his gut that he can make it happen?

If he does, then he needs a little Terrell Owens in him and he needs to demand the things and the play calling to make him successful. I don't thinks he clicks with Santanna Moss and if thats true he needs to be trying to hit other recievers on deep patterns.

Campbell has got to stop being just the good soldier that takes orders from Zorn. Once he hits the field he has to understand that he is the General and he must make it work in spite of what his marching orders is from Zorn. He must also demand the right players/packages on he field according to what he wants and not continue to have it dictated to him.

Great/Good quarterbacks and players take charge and ownership. They exceed the gameplan, they drive the gameplan, they make it work, but for some reason Campbell still thinks it is Zorn's gameplan.

On paper it belongs to Zorn, but on the field Campbell has to understand that it is his.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 14, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

... Landry needs to play smarter, DeAngelo Hall is terrible, can't cover or tackle and Rogers still has hands of stone.

Posted by: skinswest | September 14, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

How do you figure Los still has hands of stone? When exactly did you see Eli throw at him? Oh wait, you didn't, because he was the corner actually covering his receiver.

Posted by: ecale25 | September 14, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

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