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Redskins promote Hall, demote Randle El

The Redskins plan to make a major change on special teams for their upcoming game against the Atlanta Falcons, demoting punt returner Antwaan Randle El and elevating DeAngelo Hall to the primary role, a league source said today.

Danny Smith, special teams coordinator, will focus this week on helping Hall prepare to handle the majority of returns in Sunday's game at the Georgia Dome, and Santana Moss also is expected to continue as a change-of-pace returner. Although the Redskins still plan to have Randle El involved in the return game in a reduced role, they need more production out of the position and believe Hall is their best option.

When asked about the move after practice at Redskins Park, Coach Jim Zorn stressed he has not made a final decision but acknowledged Hall would be involved in a potential change. "One of the things that's going to happen is we're going to get another guy involved in punt returning and that's going to be DeAngelo," Zorn said. "We're going to try to get him more and more reps. I've been trying to get Santana at least a couple of punt returns a game and I'm going to continue that. You're still going to see Antwaan out there but it'll be a little more flipped as far as the involvement. You're going to see more and more" of Hall.

Washington's top corner, Hall hasn't returned a punt since 2007, his final season with the Atlanta Falcons. He was used a change-of-pace returner - similar to how the Redskins use Moss - and fielded five punts for 41 yards that year. His longest return was 16 yards.

The only other season he returned punts was 2005, when he fielded eight punts for 82 yards. His longest was a 27-yard return. In his 13 career returns, he has three fair catches, two fumbles and an average return of 9.5 yards.

The last time Hall was regularly returning punts was in college, during his final two seasons at Virginia Tech. He returned 53 punts during his three-year career as a Hokie, averaging 14.8 yards and returning four punts for touchdowns.

"As Danny and I work through this week, this is a big week for us to evaluate DeAngelo," said Zorn, who as of Monday's practice had not informed the players of the planned move. "This is something that we've been trying to work in."

Whatever the team needs from him is fine, Hall said. "It's cool. I don't mind" returning punts, said Hall, who was back on one punt in the last game against the Philadelphia Eagles but didn't have the opportunity for a return.

Hall has practiced returning punts regularly every year as a pro. "This is a different league. This ain't college," he said. "But at the same time, I do feel like I'm pretty good at it."

In Randle El's final year in Pittsburgh, 2005, he averaged 10.2 yards per return. In his first year in Washington, that number dropped to 8.8 yards. In 2007, it was 6.1, and in 2008, it was 6.5. And this year: 5.2 yards on his 11 returns, which does not count his 11 fair catches or his two fumbles.

Coaches acknowledge that too often, Randle El begins a return by running laterally. "He wants to run north-south," Zorn said recently. At 30, he is no longer the explosive return man the Redskins brought in from Pittsburgh. His last return of more than 40 yards came in 2006, and he has only two returns of more than 20 yards in the past two seasons. Of players with at least seven punt returns on the season - or one per week -Randle El's 5.2-yard average per return ranks 25th in the league.

Adding to the ineffectiveness: Randle El has 11 fair catches. Only one player, Jim Leonhard of the New York Jets, has more with 12.

On Oct. 11, a 20-17 loss to the Carolina Panthers turned on a Panthers punt with 10 minutes remaining and the Redskins holding a 17-12 lead. Randle El came up to catch the punt just over the Washington 20-yard line, but a Carolina player blocked Redskins cornerback Byron Westbrook into Randle El, who couldn't hold onto the ball. The Panthers recovered and scored the go-ahead touchdown moments later.

In the 27-17 loss to Philadelphia in Week 7, the Redskins pulled within 17-7 with six minutes left in the second quarter, and had a chance to draw closer, but Randle El muffed another punt. The Eagles recovered at the Washington 25, kicked a field goal, and ended up with a 27-7 lead at halftime.

The Redskins turn to Moss when they're seeking a spark in the return game, but the team's No. 1 wideout is so important to the offense "it's hard to put Santana out there every down and let him get knocked" around, Zorn said. "If we don't have him out there on offense ... we just can't risk that.

"It's a feel for me and it's a commitment for myself to make sure we have ourselves a chance. And I love Antwaan Randle El. I really do. But he has ... he's dropped a couple. And it's not that I don't have confidence. In fact, I'd out him out there today if I felt it was the right situation."

Rick Maese and Barry Svrluga contributed to this report.

By Jason Reid  |  November 2, 2009; 2:55 PM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: Blades, Westbrook to miss Atlanta game

Comments

It's about frikkin time.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 2, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

High priced guys do not make good punt returners. Need some desperation there. Maybe Tryon?

Posted by: mhaslup1 | November 2, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Barring an offensive explosion at Atlanta, I think they should let Zorn call plays the rest of the way. The Eagles game just confirmed my suspicion that it is lack of talent on offense (esp. the line) that is the problem, not the playcalling. I don't think Zorn is a playcalling genius, but let him do his job.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | November 2, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Hopefully, the fullback they signed can block on special teams. Otherwise I don't see the use of him.

Posted by: periculum | November 2, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

why is this team so horribly mismanaged on a week to week basis...

Posted by: BMACattack | November 2, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Classic "Don't believe s*** stinks until it's smelled" line of thinking.

At least they're finally smelling it.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

It's about frikkin time.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 2, 2009 3:08 P

I was gonna post this, but I had a different word than "frikkin".

Posted by: League-Source | November 2, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

the players would call this a demotion to the special teams..not a promotion.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | November 2, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Well that should solve everything.

Posted by: LouLewis | November 2, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

TWISI..
Problem with Zorn is he is an ex-NFL player. So, he coddles their egos as he would of wanted his own to be treated, as a player.

As much as I dislike Belichick, this is one of his strengths. As a "never played pro ball" Head Coach, he is purely objective and calculating when making personnel moves. His best players each week move up and poor performance players move down to the bench. Its why the Pats seem to uncover so many talented low rounders. Belichick would of cut Heyer after the 07 season, given Heyer's matador performance of directing Patrick Kearney (Seattles DT) unabated to Todd Collins in the 07 playoffs. Believe Kearney broke the playoff sack record.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Of Stephon Heyer, Zorn said: "He's actually improving. ... He's still gimping a little bit. ... It'll get better as the week goes on."


I ask again why is he even in the discussion for starting this week. It's been two weeks since Levi got here. Plug him in. He's a vet, he should be able to pick things up by now. It's plain as day that Heyer is nothing but a backup at RT only in this league.

Posted by: TWISI | November 2, 2009 2:37 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | November 2, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Marko!
Marko!
Marko!
Marko!

Posted by: ccwbambam | November 2, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

On hiring and firing: Hire a president like Parcells. It should be Gibbs but if he won't do it find someone else. That guy should hire a GM, the requisite staff and then a head coach. Snidely needs to sign-off, sign pay checks, and carry signs of his disdain to the stadium like any fan. Not to Redskins Park where he would no longer have an office. He can lease an office in Middleburg, that is far enough away.

Posted by: periculum | November 2, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

rock needs this type of demotion next...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

And Casserly engineered the trade with New Orleans, still got Bailey, and drafted Lavar and Samuels the next year.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 2, 2009 3:11 PM

So he was here for that draft. I wasn't sure.

Posted by: TWISI | November 2, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Yep. He deftly switched the #5 overall for the #12 overall (took Champ) and got all of N.O. picks that year + a 1st & 3rd in "00.

Casserly was rewarded for his fleecing by getting fired at the end of the '99 season.

Casserly was the last Skins GM to make a trade and actually get MORE draft picks in return. What a lost concept......

F SNYDER!


Posted by: ksquare | November 2, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: ksquare | November 2, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

"In fact, I'd out him out there today if I felt it was the right situation."


I don't think a coach should "out" (not that there's anything....) anybody, regardless of the situation.

Posted by: 4-12 | November 2, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

That's our team...always reactionary.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | November 2, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

This is a good move until DHallor Moss gets hurt then we're screwed. I don't understand why Devin Thomas isn't doing it. We have Malcolm Kelly, Randle El, and Marko Mitchell backing up Thomas. I'd have Thomas returning all kicks and punts.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"When asked about the move after practice at Redskins Park, Coach Jim Zorn stressed he has not made a final decision but acknowledged Hall would be involved in a potential change."

Of course Jim Zorn hasn't made a final decision because he has no idea on how to make a decision. He waited weeks to let Kelly know he had the WR job, waited all week to figure out who his starting RG was going to be. Now, after a year of evidence that ARE isn't a PR, he still can't make a decision on what he wants to do even after a bye week.

This team had the talent to be 5-2 right now -- Jim Zorn is the person most responsible for the 2-5 record we have now. In large part because the man has no clue on how to make decisions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 2, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

I am a fan, I will buy & wear jerseys. I like to represent my team, even if they are ran by a dictator or they lose every game. ...

Posted by: AllThatSkins | November 2, 2009 2:47 PM

Gotta wonder whether Dan Jong Il ever gets ronery.

Posted by: dcsween | November 2, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

I was just finishing telling my girlfriend during the Eagle game that "Randle El doesn't get many yards per return, but I can live with that because he takes care of the ball so well" when the ball bounced off his face mask. To me, it summed up the toothache this season has become perfectly. Hoping this helps w/o getting our 30 million dollar (non-tackling) cornerback hurt.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Absolutely Beantown! I'm tired of seeing the same ZERO yards on punt returns, and Rock (get the piano off my back) returning kickoffs 15 yards. With Rock, there is ZERO chance of any kick being returned to the house!

Posted by: 1of9000 | November 2, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

More and more everything Zorn says pisses me off in some way. The way he talks about this personnel move, it's like someone is cutting his guts out as he says it. He's such a sissy about it, like he doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. With his "I still have confidence" and his "I really like the guy" and bla bla bla.

How bout instead of using 100 meandering soft words, you just say "He's under performing, so we're making a change". It's no wonder nobody plays on that team like they're afraid to lose their job.

He's forcing his own players to call each other out instead of him doing it himself. I used to feel bad for Zorn and the terrible situation he was put in, but I'm really starting to want him gone more each week.

Posted by: REXskins | November 2, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

This team had the talent to be 5-2 right now -- Jim Zorn is the person most responsible for the 2-5 record we have now. In large part because the man has no clue on how to make decisions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 2, 2009 3:27 PM

If Bill "Class" Belichick was coaching this team we'd maybe be 4-3. This team blows, don't kid yourself.

Posted by: Moose33 | November 2, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

I was just finishing telling my girlfriend during the Eagle game that "Randle El doesn't get many yards per return, but I can live with that because he takes care of the ball so well" when the ball bounced off his face mask. To me, it summed up the toothache this season has become perfectly. Hoping this helps w/o getting our 30 million dollar (non-tackling) cornerback hurt.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 2, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I told my girlfriend that Rock Cartright always gets tackled on the 23 yard line. Then he proceeds to return it to the 40. I feel your pain.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Hall or Devin Thomas is much more welcomed.

We need an elite left tackle. We need another Chris Samuels. We'll never get by with Heyer at LT, or Levi Jones for that matter. Not when we play in a division with the likes of Demarcus Ware, Usi, Tuck...etc

Check out Nehemiah Broughton, on the Giants practice squad.... 5 years of experience....??? I didn't think practice squad players could have so much exp?

Rounds 1-4 need to be O-Line. That's 85% of our 'holes.'

Posted by: AllThatSkins | November 2, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

rock needs this type of demotion next...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Another demotion that shoulda happened a year ago.

Posted by: dcwun | November 2, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

After receiving a punt, you start an offensive series. Lord forbid that ARE would actually tire himself out and return one to the house, but if he gets gassed in returning a punt, he's essentially out of the line up for the next series. On the other hand, D. Hall will have been out for a full series if the other team is punting, so he might already be gassed, unless its a 3-and-out situation. But because this is Atlanta, the Skins won't be fielding too many points, so the this issue is not likely to come up this week.

Posted by: dcsween | November 2, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

rock needs this type of demotion next...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 3:25 PM

t_e got demoted last week. You could be next.

Posted by: League-Source | November 2, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

points, punts ... mistyped, but on further reading, I stand by my mistypo.

Posted by: dcsween | November 2, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!! only 2 years too late but hey, that's about the established learning curve for this franchise so I guess this move is right on schedule.

and to this post:

Barring an offensive explosion at Atlanta, I think they should let Zorn call plays the rest of the way. The Eagles game just confirmed my suspicion that it is lack of talent on offense (esp. the line) that is the problem, not the playcalling. I don't think Zorn is a playcalling genius, but let him do his job.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | November 2, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

I completely disagree. Despite multiple turnovers on our part, and no tunrovers forced by our defense we put up 17 points (should have been 20 if Zorn had kicked the field goal late). 20 would have been the most points all season, 17 is tied for the most points all season with Carolina (two TDs of defensive turnovers giving us the ball inside their 20 twice) and New York (late scores against a prevent D). IMO playing against the best defense we've seen since week 1 and not getting any cheapy points of turnovers combined with the fact that DT11 and Davis we're involved and had the best games of their respective careers the change in play callers was a big success. We're still a bad team because our line sucks and JC is a horribly inaccurate QB, that won't be changing this year, but I was encouraged by that game, it showed a lot of the problem was Zorn and that there are signs of life from the triplets.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 2, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

a guy with as many bonus points as I got, don't get demoted....clear??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

This team had the talent to be 5-2 right now -- Jim Zorn is the person most responsible for the 2-5 record we have now. In large part because the man has no clue on how to make decisions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 2, 2009 3:27 PM

If Bill "Class" Belichick was coaching this team we'd maybe be 4-3. This team blows, don't kid yourself.

Posted by: Moose33

Wrong! This team should be 5-2. By hook or crook, Belichick would have cheated is way to at least 5-2.

Posted by: dcwun | November 2, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

So going with the mathematical certainty that two negatives make a positive I'm thinking our game against Oakland will be the greatest display of offense in the history of the modern NFL. . .

Posted by: sfskin | November 2, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Thank you.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | November 2, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Wrong! This team should be 5-2. By hook or crook, Belichick would have cheated is way to at least 5-2.

Posted by: dcwun | November 2, 2009 3:38 PM

Good point but no amount of illegal filming is going to make our line actually block someone.

Posted by: Moose33 | November 2, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

"AS DANNY and I work through this week, this is a big week for US to evaluate DeAngelo," said Zorn, who as of Monday's practice had not informed the players of the planned move. "This is something that WE'VE been trying to work in."

This admission by Zorn epitomizes the problem with the Redskins organization. Danny shouldn't be involved in the process of evaluating Hall's punt return abilities!!! That should strictly be left to the coaches!!!

Oh, and by the way, this is not a playoff caliber roster as claimed by Vinny C. It is about time management take some accountability. This starts with "Linus losing the blanket."

Posted by: tgravely1977 | November 2, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Real bright...put a guy back there who's fumbled on 2 of his 13 career returns. That's a disaster waiting to happen...even more than his play at DB. Good call, guys!

Posted by: mdellinger | November 2, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

a guy with as many bonus points as I got, don't get demoted....clear??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 3:38 PM

This is RI. You can't buy your way to success up here with bonus points. You gotta earn it. If bonus points were all it took, TheTruthll would be king and the MARTY S. E/M ADD. guy would be the viceroy instead of DCSween and RedDMV.

Posted by: League-Source | November 2, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Either that or it a black hole will be created that will suck in the entire planet a la Hadron collider. . .

I'm not sure giving Zorn back playcalling would making anything better and may just turn this shabingus into a . . . well what is worse than a shabingus?

Posted by: sfskin | November 2, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Why would you need to demote Rock?!

He did great last game and does all the time, purdy much.

He's no great back, but gives 100% and has a good average. He's not the problem.

Stop the pie in the sky return dreams. You're not getting Devon Hester on every team.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

That depends bean, how many bonus points do you have to give up to keep from getting demoted....

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 2, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

So going with the mathematical certainty that two negatives make a positive I'm thinking our game against Oakland will be the greatest display of offense in the history of the modern NFL. . .

Posted by: sfskin | November 2, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

If that game sells out, I'm betting the NFL still blacks it out to save us all from frequent vomiting and the constant urge to burn our retinas....

Posted by: mattylight | November 2, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

well what is worse than a shabingus?

a mongolian cluster-shabingus. I'm not even sure you can blog that Up Here.

Posted by: daggar | November 2, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

well what is worse than a shabingus?

a mongolian cluster-shabingus. I'm not even sure you can blog that Up Here.

Posted by: daggar | November 2, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

tgravely1977 - I think the "Danny" in your post is in reference to Danny Smith. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think the Special Teams coach would be involved in this decision. It is, however, the Redskins, it's anyones guess as to who is making the decisions....

Posted by: DaleHunter | November 2, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Wow...Just Wow....

Peeps get thrown a bone, but don't realize it has no meat left on it. Not even the grizzle. (Deep? I know.)

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 2, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

well what is worse than a shabingus?

Dan Synder.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | November 2, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Demoting Randel El SHOULD be the easiest decision Jim Zorn has ever made. ARE doesn't make anyone miss, can't run away from anyone, can't break a tackle, and now apparently can't even make a fair catch. I don't what the hell he has to evaluate, this is a no brainer.

Posted by: james808d | November 2, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"AS DANNY and I work through this week, this is a big week for US to evaluate DeAngelo," said Zorn, who as of Monday's practice had not informed the players of the planned move. "This is something that WE'VE been trying to work in."

This admission by Zorn epitomizes the problem with the Redskins organization. Danny shouldn't be involved in the process of evaluating Hall's punt return abilities!!! That should strictly be left to the coaches!!!

Oh, and by the way, this is not a playoff caliber roster as claimed by Vinny C. It is about time management take some accountability. This starts with "Linus losing the blanket."

Posted by: tgravely1977 | November 2, 2009 3:44 PM

I'm thinking the 'Danny' Zorn refers to here is Danny Smith, special teams coach ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 2, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

ds, because he has no speed to break one, and given the KR rules changes that went into effect this year, speed is the name of the game on returns. Rock just doesn't have it. He'll consistenly get to the 20, or thereabouts, but thats about it. So if you want the mediocrity to continue, then by all means, rock is your guy.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

"...well what is worse than a shabingus?"


Something about "2 girls and a cup" comes to mind...

Posted by: 4-12 | November 2, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

rocks lack of speed, which combined with the offensive issues the team has moving the ball, makes EVERY SINGLE YARD that much more important. If replacing rock, means a 2-3 yard improvement on KR, then they need to make the change...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

So far this is where we are. These were the problems that we knew we had after the first game.

1. Fix offensive line
2. Fix play calling
3. Play more aggresive defense
4. ARE should not return punts
5. Portis should be benched
6. Rock should not return kicks
7. We using the wrong scheme.

This is what's still broken.

1. Fix offensive line
5. Portis should be benched
6. Rock should not return kicks
7. We using the wrong scheme.


We are getting better but we still suck.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Doesnt ARE have a clause in his contract that the team can void after this season?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | November 2, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Tuh, league source, they hate my damn guts up here.

You'd think I joined Al-Qaeda, constantly screamed at the top of my lungs: I HATE THE MAN, and openly cheered for the Cowboys or something.

They hate me on RI but love me in Europe, I don't get it.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

you're a bama, what'd you expect...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

F Vinny and his "playoff caliber roster thoughts"

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | November 2, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Beaner we have this same argument every time...

... did you even watch the Iggles game. He was fine. And speed o' plenty.

We've been over the numbers before. You dismiss Rock, you dismiss BMitch, you dismiss Mike Nelms...

If you're counting on special teams to win your game, you have a bad team. If you get lucky with them, well, great.

I'm all for DHall returning punts as the current guy won't even try for straight yardage, not to mention handling the ball...

HOF bmitch averaged 23 yds on KRs. So Rock's not HOF - least of our worries.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 2, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Chargers cut Chris Chambers
Posted by Mike Florio on November 2, 2009 3:34 PM ET
A day after the San Diego Chargers inserted receiver Malcom Floyd into the starting lineup in place of veteran Chris Chambers, Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reports that the Chargers have severed ties with the man they acquired from the Dolphins in 2007 for a second-round draft pick.

Since the trading deadline has passed, Chambers will be required to pass through waivers. Anyone who takes him, however, would be required to pick up the balance of his $4.55 million balance salary. (With nine weeks left, the unpaid amount is $2.4 million.)

On Sunday, Chambers had one catch for 20 yards; Floyd had two for 64.

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 2, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Eat it Danny


Holmgren: Redskins’ treatment of Zorn was wrong
Posted: November 2nd, 2009 | NFL.com Staff | Tags: Jim Zorn, Mike Holmgren, Washington Redskins

The bridge that was connecting Mike Holmgren to the Washington Redskins head coaching job, should it come open, might have been blown up on Monday. And Holmgren was the one holding the gasoline can in one hand and a burned match in the other.

On the “The Waddle and Silvy Show,” Holmgren was asked by the Chicago radio hosts, Tom Waddle and Marc Silverman, what he thought about the Redskins removing the play-calling duties from head coach Jim Zorn, who was Holmgren’s quarterbacks coach in Seattle.

“I thought it was very unfair to put him in the position. The position they put Jim in, it shouldn’t happen,” Holmgren said. “You can be upset with me as a play-caller or how the team’s going, (then) fire me. But don’t do that. Don’t pull the rug out from under me, tie my hands, make me look foolish … take away what I came there for to do in the first place. Don’t do that.”

It has been rumored that the Redskins were on Holmgren’s short list of teams he would like to coach should he come out of retirement in 2010, an idea he has been publicly pushing for months. He has said on at least one occasion that he would love to coach on the East Coast after long stints in the Midwest with Green Bay and the West Coast in Seattle.

Time will tell if he has eliminated himself from the Redskins job after his strong comments on Monday, or if Holmgren was eliminating himself after witnessing the team’s treatment of a good friend.

“That bothered me a lot,” Holmgren said. “Jim Zorn is one of the nice people. I’m a nice guy, but I’m not that nice. Jim Zorn is really a nice man. What they did, I did not like it at all.”

Posted by: ocskins | November 2, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

This team had the talent to be 5-2 right now -- Jim Zorn is the person most responsible for the 2-5 record we have now. In large part because the man has no clue on how to make decisions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 2, 2009 3:27 PM

If Bill "Class" Belichick was coaching this team we'd maybe be 4-3. This team blows, don't kid yourself.

Posted by: Moose33

5-2, because we played the easiest possible schedule.

Det, StL, KC, Tampa, Carolina have played a total of 36 games. Exclude the games played against the other teams in this dismal group (where someone had to win).

Against us, they are 3-2. Against the rest of the league, they are 1-26. Seriously, you gotta beat these that flat out stink.

Talent-wise, we should be 5-2. Its severe underachieving that has us at 2-5, and I lay that at the feet of Jim Zorn.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 2, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Im pretty sure ARE's contract is void after this season. How could it take this long to make a change at PR? And Zorn even says hes not all out going to DH23 as the starter... he's pretty much phasing him out... wtf!?

ARE gives this team a little bit from the slot, but CB's grab him by the back of the jersey and throw him to the ground like a little school girl. The guys done. Stick em with a fork. Next.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | November 2, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

O line is far more a problem worth fixing before anything else.

No one else on the team would be more reliable at KR than Rock is. Maybe Rock doesn't take it to the house often, but he returns the ball with a purpose, which is much more entertaining to watch than our offense on the field.

Rock has returned 19 of his 22 KR for 20+ yards. Only Josh Cribbs & Danny Amendola have had more returns for 20+ yards, and both of them have had nine more KR this season.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | November 2, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

whateves, Boston Baked Bama... HA-HA, Triple B or B3...

>>

Bean, you're now a honorary charter member in the Rock Cutters Society.

I started this Cut Rock s***, and this the motherf-ing thanks I get?

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Zorn said in the preseason that running back kickoffs seemed to help Devin Thomas get into the game and improve his play all around. So did this "lesson learned" get carried over to the regular season, NO that would make too much sense!

They should let Thomas return both kickoffs and punts for a few games and see what he can do. This is a 2-5 team headed for 4-12 or worse. They have nothing to lose and a lot to gain if it works out.

Posted by: hapster | November 2, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Zorn says he wants to run north south?

REALLY????
I don't buy that, cuz I have never once in my life seen El get a punt and have his first 3 steps go North-South.

I also can't believe that he averages 5 yards a return this season, unless there was a big one I missed.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 2, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

ds, I've never dismissed Nelms, nor BMitch, nor Kenny Jenkins, nor Chad Morton, because they had speed, and could make a difference in a game....Rock...not so much...

As I stated, I'm not asking for the KR guy to win the game, but could he ONE TIME, have an effect on it?? Given the offense's struggles moving the ball, what if 2-3 yards was the difference in a TD, or a FG.

What kind of effect did Ted Ginn have on the game yesterday as a KR?? When was the last time Rock did something REMOTELY close....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

First, I think it is a move that should have happened at the beginning of the season, but I am glad someone finally saw the light. Second, I think this it is strange to risk injury to your starting cornerback when there are other options around. No, I don't think Moss is another option, but what about Devin Thomas? What about Cartwright? Choosing the starting cornerback to return punts is just one more curious move in a long string of curious moves, but I am glad they at least admitted that maybe ARE is not the answer. D. Hall returning punts at Virginia Tech was a thing to behold, and the timing - going up against his former team - couldn't be better.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 2, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

The heart continues to bleed, the tears continue to flow, and the vagina's still ache for Jim Zorn and Jason Campbell.

Cut it with the nice guy crap.

Jason Campbell nice guy, sorry quarterback.

Jim Zorn nice guy, not HC material.

There's your common denominator. Cut 'em both and be done with it already.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

friend of mine just told that mason just had a workout with the Pats today...why can't we find young players like that....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | November 2, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

“That bothered me a lot,” Holmgren said. “Jim Zorn is one of the nice people. I’m a nice guy, but I’m not that nice. Jim Zorn is really a nice man. What they did, I did not like it at all.”


Posted by: ocskins | November 2, 2009 4:03 PM

A wise man told me once that 'Hindsight is 50/50'

And that old adage has once again proved correct. But, I should mention that this IN NO WAY ELIMINATES HOLGREM.

That was Zorn. Like Holgrem just said, he ain't that nice. And he is learning from Zorn's bumbling mistakes...

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 2, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

They should let Thomas return both kickoffs and punts for a few games and see what he can do. This is a 2-5 team headed for 4-12 or worse. They have nothing to lose and a lot to gain if it works out.

Posted by: hapster | November 2, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse


Well technically we have the desire to slit your wrists when watching the Skins to lose . . .I'm just saying . . .

Posted by: sfskin | November 2, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Say what you want about Rock Cartwright, but he looks like Devin Hester compared to ARE.

Posted by: james808d | November 2, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

I love the victim mentality that is going on here....JZ is the victim of big bad Dan Snyder....maybe, just maybe had JZ done his job a whole lot better this wouldn't have happened...oh I don't know, maybe don't be so predictable, don't run left, don't try a halfback option....don't blame the players...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

The reason Rock's return average is so high is because he returns everything to the 23. We could do the same thing by just not returning it at all. We hardly ever get better field position than that from a kick return. We only have 1 return over 40 yards. I doubt we have many over 30 yards.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 2, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

oos, the pats have 5 rb on their roster right now...so much ado over nothing I imagine...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Guess they should put Hall on something to do with Offense since he cant cover and cant tackle. His INT's were gifts, either tipped to him or thrown into his chest. He's also been speaking for the team a lot (because he wont shut up), basically getting promoted, and getting called their best corner? This from a guy who gives 50% effort, is scared to tackle, and got cut from the Raiders. The Raiders! THIS, is how low the Skins have fallen.

Posted by: 44RIGGO | November 2, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"When was the last time Rock did something REMOTELY close...." - Triple B'z

Not counting the pre-season, that'll be @ Dallas in...

2006

In that pre-season game last year he ran it back roughly 70 yards before being caught. He should have been gone too...

I remember it like it was yesterday, that play right there gave the pro-Rock crowd all the ammunition they needed for keeping Rock over Mason.

And I still wasn't impressed. Fast-forward a year little much hasn't changed.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Holmgren is laying the ground work for coming in as a GM or Prez of football operations. Snyder can hang this all on Vinny and cite it as a reason for bouncing him to the curve, then turn around and bring in Holmgren who "helped him see the light". Naahhh! It's going to be Shanahan.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 2, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Compared to ARE, Rock Cartwright looks like Rock Cartwright. If Rock was returning Punts they would get the same results. Thing is that El finds a way to average 5 a return going east-west, while Rock would get that same clip going north-south.

I actually think El would do better on KRs instead of PRs.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Tuh, league source, they hate my damn guts up here.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 3:56 PM

They hate the viceroy, but he's still the viceroy. Hate is just part of the job. Goes with the title.

Posted by: League-Source | November 2, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

agreed on Holmgren's comments. He didn't take himself out of the running to work for the Skins. His comments made it crystal clear, however, he won't work for Vinny.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 2, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 2, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

" ... At 30, [ARE] is no longer the explosive [return man] the Redskins brought in from [Pittsburgh]. ..." -JReid

Seems like I've read some variation of this same sentence over each of the previous ten seasons, only with the names in the [brackets] replaced.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me ten times, call me MISTER Snyder and don't tell ME how to run a football team!

Posted by: dcsween | November 2, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

"His INT's were gifts, either tipped to him or thrown into his chest." - 44RIGGO

Do you know how stupid you just read? How the hell else is a CB supposed get INTs, pull 'em outta his ass? He's doing his job which is a helluva lot more I can say for the other starting CB.

"He's also been speaking for the team a lot (because he wont shut up), basically getting promoted..." - 44RIGGO

When Hall came here he was the 3rd CB. By the time the season ended he was starting, so I don't know where you're getting your facts from but you need to get 'em checked.
And what's the matter with him speaking out on issues with the team? Is he saying something that is untrue? Look here's how it works: A person from the media asks Hall a question regarding the state of the sorry-ass Redskins and Hall gives them a quote, unbiased and unfiltered. Don't like it, too damn bad, deal with it! I could see if he was trying to stir the s*** storm, but he isn't.

"This from a guy who gives 50% effort, is scared to tackle, and got cut from the Raiders. The Raiders! THIS, is how low the Skins have fallen." 44RIGGO

Well you don't watch him practice everyday do you? You sure as hell aren't out there on game-day, so how in the f would you know if he's giving it 50% or not. I'll give you the tackle thing, but it's more that he can't rather than he's "scared". Truth is Hall tackling is better than it's ever been.

And stop it with making "funnies" at other teams. The Raiders would probably beat the 'Skins if they played today. Jim Zorn is so p***y that when he looks over at Tom "Smackahoe" Cable, he'll piss his tan game-day khakis. Redskins aren't in the position to be condescending to ANY TEAM.

'Skins are on some "Yes sir, no sir" s*** right now. They're the sons of the NFL.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 2, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

"So going with the mathematical certainty that two negatives make a positive..." Posted by: sfskin


Not if you add them.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 2, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Why not Devin Thomas?

Posted by: Redskins001 | November 2, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Anyone is better than Randle-El, the fair catch king.

Posted by: DCFanatic | November 2, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Something so apparent, so obvious, for so long....and NOW they decide to do something about it?! What losers.

Posted by: Trout1 | November 2, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

It's about frikkin time.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 2, 2009 3:08 P

I was gonna post this, but I had a different word than "frikkin".

Posted by: League-Source |

And I was gonna complete both your thoughts by noting, somewhat predictably, "Finally a move that will bring another Super Bowl to Washington."

Redskins have one coach who was a Bingo Caller and one who is busy grasping at straws.

Posted by: TheCork | November 2, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

More fun and adventure from Monty Snyder's Flying Circus. Who cares about these nitpick adjustments? No amount of little tweaks will equate to a SINGLE ADDITIONAL WIN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyr1ugzxXM

The Snyder Sideshow continues. Wonder how he'll be judged against the greats? HaHaHa.

Posted by: 3rdGenRFan | November 2, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

"His INT's were gifts, either tipped to him or thrown into his chest." - 44RIGGO

Do you know how stupid you just read? How the hell else is a CB supposed get INTs, pull 'em outta his ass? He's doing his job which is a helluva lot more I can say for the other starting CB.

POSTED BY: RED DMV

Glass houses dude. You're still under the impression that whoever sounds the most bad-ass is right here, but 44RIGGO is dead on right.

Let me answer your question first. How "the hell else" Hall is supposed to get Ints instead of catching caroms while standing 10 yards behind the receiver is by actually COVERING the receiver.

See, the problem is most of the time, when a CB stations himself well off the guy he's supposed to cover, the ball is caught by the receiver, it DOESN'T carom to the defender.

Hey, Hall has great hands, but his cover skills are lacking. His ints are a result of both factors, and 44RIGGO doesn't deserve a dose of your "patented" wit.

As for comparing Hall favorably with the other redskins CB, there's a term for that kind of argument: It's called a "Straw man" approach.

Hey save some snark and your asterisks for later in the season. You're gonna need them, RedDMV

Posted by: TheCork | November 2, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Examples of Jim Zorn answers

Randle El wants to run north and south but when he catches the ball there are 11 people coming to try and tackle him so he decided there to go east and west, so you see it is not his fault it is really just a number thing. I think if there was nobody coming down the field to tackle him you would see that joker go north 100mph.


Jim Zorn = Michael Scott

Posted by: GreatOne1 | November 2, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

And Casserly engineered the trade with New Orleans, still got Bailey, and drafted Lavar and Samuels the next year.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 2, 2009 3:11 PM

Actually, it was Cerrato who drafted Arrington and Samuels. Casserly was relieved of his GM duties effective Sept. 3, 1999 and Cerrato took over the personnel duties, but not the title. Samuels and Arrington were taken in the 2000 draft.

Posted by: rbpalmer | November 2, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

It seems to me that the Skins have talent similar to that of the Packers, when you want to talk wins and losses. I think we are much better on defense. I think their offensive line is as bad or worse than ours, receivers and running backs are similar, but their QB makes plays and ours does not, and their coaching staff uses their talent better than ours. We should easily be 5-2 rather than 2-5, especially with the schedule we've played. And let's not put the Eagles and the Giants up there as impossible to win games. There talent is not that superior if superior at all.

Posted by: Sonny9 | November 2, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Problem with Zorn is he is an ex-NFL player. So, he coddles their egos as he would of wanted his own to be treated, as a player.

I'm not sure who posted this originally, but the logical extension of this argument would be that all ex-players "coddle" the egos of their own players, which, of course, is nonsense. Mike Singletary, Mike Ditka, Tom Landry, and Bill Cowher all are, or were, ex-players, and I seriously doubt whether any of them ever "coddled" the egos, or anything else, of their players. Many ex-players have failed as coaches, perhaps in part for the reason you refer to, but to suggest that Zorn is a failure because he is an ex-player doesn't make much sense.

Posted by: rbpalmer | November 2, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Good.... make him sit. He's been phoning it in since the day he got here.

Posted by: rg019571 | November 2, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Let Devin Thomas do it!!!!!

Posted by: oknow1 | November 2, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Let Devin Thomas do it!!!!!

Posted by: oknow1 | November 2, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

I think their offensive line is as bad or worse than ours, receivers and running backs are similar, but their QB makes plays and ours does not, and their coaching staff uses their talent better than ours. We should easily be 5-2 rather than 2-5, especially with the schedule we've played. And let's not put the Eagles and the Giants up there as impossible to win games. There talent is not that superior if superior at all.

Posted by: Sonny9 | November 2, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

I disagree. Our O-line is worse. Both Rodgers and Campbell hold onto the ball too long, which contributes to their respective sack totals, but on more occasions than what happens with the Packers, Jason Campbell never has a chance to throw the ball because the defenders are in his face as soon as he sets up to throw. Also, I would take Jennings over any of the Redskins' receivers, even Moss, and Driver is still better, at his age, than Randle-El, Thomas or Kelly. And our D hasn't been any great shakes either, giving up big plays or long drives at inopportune times. As for whether our record fits our talent level, we have one starting calibre NFL receiver (and he ideally should be used in the slot as a third WR because of his size and durability issues), an absolutely dreadful O-line, no NFL starting calibre QB, two solid, but unspectacular RBs (Portis used to be great, but has lost a step or two), one cornerback who can catch the ball but can't tackle, and another who can tackle but can't catch. All in all, I think that our record is a pretty accurate reflection of our talent and the job that Snyderatto has done in assembling this team.

Posted by: rbpalmer | November 2, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

I am done with Zorn. he is a cerebral pussy afraid to ruffle feathers. Will someone yell loudly in his ear that he is about to lose his job and to stop with the politically correct quotes and act like an NFL Coach (see Mike Singletary JZ)
Nice guys ALWAYS finish last and this sugary sweet, contemplative, overly sensitive and reflective enlightened soul needs to COACH, not continue to provide the media with his "honest" plattitudes given to lame underachievers like ARE. Jesus, what a freaken nightmare this poor excuse for a billion dollar entertainment entity this has become. JZ, grow some bollucks and get mideval on their sorry asses

Posted by: jshavatt | November 2, 2009 10:43 PM | Report abuse

Moss is a good wr but it wouldn't be any big loss to the skins' offense if he got hurt returning punts. He's Ricky Sanders but for 5 years the skins have been trying to force him to be Art Monk. Has any pro offense been successful depending so heavily on such a tiny wr? I like the guy but he was the 3rd wr on the Jets. If Deshawn Jackson can return punts for the Eagles, Santana can return punts for the skins.

Posted by: coparker5 | November 3, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

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