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Still Waiting for Kelly, Campbell to Click

Second-year wide receiver Malcolm Kelly is off to a slow start in his first season as the first-team flanker.

Kelly impressed by catching passes in traffic in the preseason, but he has only six receptions for 65 yards in three games.

"Malcolm is a very impressive young player, and we definitely want to get him more involved, but you can't force it," quarterback Jason Campbell said. "We have to play smart football, and Malcolm understands that.

"He knows you can't just throw the ball against certain coverages. You take what's there and you move on to the next play. But Malcolm is going to get opportunities."

After producing little in the first two games, top wideout Santana Moss had a breakout performance in Sunday's 19-14 loss to the lowly Detroit Lions. The veteran split end matched his career high with 10 catches -- including a 57-yard touchdown -- and had a personal best 178 yards receiving.

"The thing I tell Malcolm and [second-year wideout] Devin [Thomas] is just to be ready," Moss said. "You can't control when you're going to get your opportunities, but it's what you do with them when they come."

Criticizing Coach Jim Zorn seems to be the new No. 1 activity of Redskins fans, but Zorn can't be blamed for Kelly's lack of production to this point. He has called deep shots to Kelly that have just not been completed, but I like Zorn's thinking on those calls.
Kelly was not going to be a 1,500 receiver this season, but he could be in time if his knee holds up. But none of this stuff, usually, happens overnight.

Week 4 Podcast

Every Tuesday, Post editors and writers jam into a broomcloset state-of-the-art radio studio to jibba and jabba about what was and what will be on the Redskins schedule. This week, Rick Maese, Dan Steinberg, Jonathan Forsythe and Cindy Boren, fueled by coffee and little chocolate donuts, had a lot to say. You can listen here, download at iTunes, or get the RSS feed.

By Jason Reid  |  September 30, 2009; 7:15 AM ET
Categories:  Jason Reid  
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Next: The Morning Reading List

Comments

I know I'm in the minority here, but if you hire a coach with no experience then you have to give him time to learn the job. Zorn hasn't had enough time yet, I think he can be good but he needs at least three years to grow into the job. snyder must have know this, so I suspect we'll have Coach Zorn for at least the rest of this year and probably next year too, perhaps with less responcibility next year, ie not calling plays and wearing so many hats.....

Posted by: gr8fullted | September 30, 2009 7:39 AM | Report abuse

Still waiting for Kelly and Campbell to click? how about we are waiting for the whole team to click.

Posted by: drumer1972 | September 30, 2009 7:40 AM | Report abuse

Throwing the deep pass isn't the fault of Zorn? Let me remind everyone that Kelly was drafted to be the big receiver who could catch the short passes and do something after the catch. His draft status fell because of his poor time in 40 yards. Translation: why would you put your slowest receiver on a deep route? I don't see him getting separation. So, yes, I do blame deep incompletions to Kelly as Zorn's fault.

As for Campbell's comments regarding throwing into coverage, I thought the whole purpose of getting a big receiver is so they can catch the balls in traffic. Just a little out pattern on the sideline thrown high should be enough to get a reception and move the chains. Why is this so difficult?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 30, 2009 7:46 AM | Report abuse

All they need is one click, then everything else cascades into more clicks. I don't think the loss in Detroit was that bad ... its not like a team of 53 professionals doesn't sometimes motivate to break a losing snap. The Owner is still a d-bag, but until he's gone, the curse remains.

Posted by: dcsween | September 30, 2009 7:47 AM | Report abuse

redskin,

That comment is why JC will never be a great QB, he is afraid of throwing Int's.

Everybody is covered in this league you have to be able to thread it in there to be great.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 30, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

I agree about throwing deep to kelly, why not exchange Thomas, who is probably the fastest receiver on the team, for Kelly, and see what happens.

I'm ready for this TB game. This team has to, they HAVE TO come out, and obliterate the Bucs....no excuses, Blache needs to dial up the intensity, dial up blitzes from every which way, JZ needs to call his best game, get the running game going, stop running left EXCLUSIVELY, get the passing game going, throw it to the kids....they need to get to .500

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

RI Nation:

Wow. You've got to read this...Tim Kawakami is a beat writer for the Raiders and he was all over the Redskins for the Zorn hiring when it happened. The scary thing is this dude called it so completely right, I have lost what little faith I have in Vinny and/or Danny's ability to properly evaluate coaches and players. Read for yourself:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2008/02/11/jim-zorn-to-the-redskins-probably-the-worst-nfl-hire-of-all-time/

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Yeh, fear is never a great trait in your starting QB.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 30, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

I have lost what little faith I have in Vinny and/or Danny's ability to properly evaluate coaches and players.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 8:14 AM

Oh, come on brownwood. You can't lose what you don't have. How can you pretend at this point ever to have had a modicum, a scintilla or even an iota of faith in Vinny or Dan?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | September 30, 2009 8:26 AM | Report abuse

brownwood...

Awesome article...AND IT WAS WRITTEN BEFORE LAST SEASON. What type of hire do you expect from the two-headed, no-brained wonder that is the Front Office.

I guess one of the interview questions was: "so, if we compile a roster of illmatched parts, overpaid whiners, old linemen, and less than spectacular receivers, and we get beat by the worst franchise in football, what would your response be?"

Zorn's reply must have been..."we're getting better. Must stay medium."

Fire the FO/Save the franchise.

Posted by: sanantonioredskin | September 30, 2009 8:26 AM | Report abuse

gr8fullted,
I'd feel as you do about Zorn if I felt the team was making progress. I don't think they are getting better. In Joe Gibbs first season the team ended the second half on a tear, because Joe, who also had zero head coaching experience at that point, finally matched his players to plays that were successful. Zorn, conversely, finished his first season on a decline and it looks like things are still sliding down that slope this year. He doesn't match players to plays that are successful. If he did, then Kelly wouldn't be running deep routes. Kelly would be the master of short to mid-range crossing routes and out patterns - and, oh yes, the goal line fade pattern. Both Moss and ARE would be getting deep on darned near every play to stretch defenses. Their speed is a threat. He would acknowledge the fact that CP has lost a step and is now more of a between-the-tackles runner than an outside runner. He would acknowledge the fact that Heyer cannot run block very well and this should mean stacking up more blockers on that side instead of limiting plays to that side. He would acknowledge that he doesn't give his fullback the ball nearly often enough (yes, Sellers did drop a ball in the end zone, but that means you should work on his receiving skils, not never throw to him again because he was OPEN) and so defenses take the fullback for granted as a blocker.

I used to think Zorn does not evolve his gameplan; however, over the last two weeks I have seen him add more shotgun and play action. I think he corrects thing, but he just doesn't correct things fast enough. This is killer in a league as dynamic as the NFL. So, I think Zorn must go. I think he has had his chance to show improvement and it is just not happening. I think the locker room right now is close to chaos and Zorn doesn't have the leadership ability to lead this team out of its deep dark funk.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 30, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

I just don't think Campbell trusts Kelly yet. Either that or he stinks. But its confusing because if teams are doubling Moss week in and week out, then Kelly should be getting single coverage and with his height should dominate opposing corners, if only because he can go up and make plays on high throws...

Posted by: mattylight | September 30, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

There's a gameplan? I thought it was all about jumping up and down like an SJK when your umteenth call of Weak Iso gets stuffed again.... You can't do that with a PLAN... scheeze...

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 30, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

brown, not trying to start stuff with you, but that article is full of factual inaccuracies....I mean, "He took a bunch of years away from football when he retired", which is wrong, he was coaching in college....just seems like a 49ers fan wrote that piece, not a real journalist....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

This is real funny and just about sums up whats really going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du5MsH5e414

Posted by: FedorEm | September 30, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

I just don't think Campbell trusts Kelly yet. Either that or he stinks. But its confusing because if teams are doubling Moss week in and week out, then Kelly should be getting single coverage and with his height should dominate opposing corners, if only because he can go up and make plays on high throws...

Posted by: mattylight | September 30, 2009 8:34 AM
Soup still managed to throw it to kelly when he was doubledand tripled.I wonder if defenses have recognized our schemes enough to roll coverage to the first read as the giants did. Had to listen to that game on sirius and carl banks was IDing the plays before the snap

Posted by: hcic55 | September 30, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

The misses was kind enough to buy me Madden 10 as an anniversary present. While playing the game I find myself cringing whenever the game shows a sideline shot of Zorn.
I want to start a franchise mode team, but I want to know if I can get rid of Zorn, and hire or create a new coach, maybe make some changes to the offense, like add a wildcat play or something.
Anyone out there who has customized their Madden version of our beloved team in order to keep their sanity this year. This is the first Madden I've owned since 2001 so I'm not up on the franchise options anymore, so any tips would be appreciated.

Posted by: Predator48 | September 30, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

brown, the guy that wrote that article was on ESPN 980 yesterday, and yes, he was spot on about Zorn's character. How right does he look now?

Posted by: pgugino | September 30, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

I thought Devin Thomas was supposed to be the deep threat? Kelly always seemed more of like a move the chains guy.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | September 30, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

I agree with the comments above. What Jason is saying about throwing to Kelly and Thomas is troubling.

It is not like other receivers are getting all the throws and touchdowns. There hasn't been any consistentcy in the passing game.

So what is he talking about when he says they got to be ready. For what.

Brownwood26,

That is some article about Jim Zorn. I thought CC was an egregrious hire for the Redskins as GM, but this takes the cake.

I have been saying that Zorn appeared to be a smart man and that he would shake of his pride and stubborness, but after reading that article, it could take some time.

Wow.

BeanTownGreg1,

Agree with your assessment of Kelly and Thomas, but for some reason or another the Redskins are not coaching to individual player strengths.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 30, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

Any reviews on Madden 10? The demo stunk. How does the game compare to 09 or 08?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 30, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

RI Nation:

Wow. You've got to read this...Tim Kawakami is a beat writer for the Raiders and he was all over the Redskins for the Zorn hiring when it happened. The scary thing is this dude called it so completely right, I have lost what little faith I have in Vinny and/or Danny's ability to properly evaluate coaches and players. Read for yourself:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2008/02/11/jim-zorn-to-the-redskins-probably-the-worst-nfl-hire-of-all-time/

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

I read it and I think he has a great line in it that Zorn was never a thinking QB..

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Question:

Has JC even attempted a throw INTO the endzone yet in 3 games?

Serious question because I cannot remember. I know he threw to Cartwright at the 1 and then Rock fell in so I really don't count that.

Did he hit Cooley in the first game?

Not rhetorical questions just trying to remember.

If he hasn't...thats on Zorn in my opinion for not calling that type of play. Especially that b.s. final play inside the 40.

Posted by: TampaBayareaRedskinsfan | September 30, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

JC...SHUT UP! You missed Malcom Kelly for at least two touchdowns. You also threw it to Kelly in triple coverage. You lock in on 5'10" Santana Moss and 5'9" ARE.

We've been waiting for 19 games for you to click with them.

Oh...by the way....JEFF GARCIA just released from the Eagles.

Hmmmmm!

Posted by: rickyroge | September 30, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Predator,
you can't fire your coach in Madden 2010 until the next offseason. So either deal with his ugly mug for 1 yr while playing, OR simulate the year and then you can start unf***ing Snyder's work. Make sure you pay attention to your scouting report before you enter the draft, which is much more realistic now.

Posted by: pgugino | September 30, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

I've got to pick two running backs to start in my league out of these:

Kevin Smith vs. Chi
Ryan Grant vs. Min
Pierre Thomas vs. NYJ
Glen Coffee vs. Stl

Any suggestions?

Also was planning on benching Redskins DST for the Saints

Posted by: 3hrswasted | September 30, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

Soup still managed to throw it to kelly when he was doubledand tripled.I wonder if defenses have recognized our schemes enough to roll coverage to the first read as the giants did. Had to listen to that game on sirius and carl banks was IDing the plays before the snap

Posted by: hcic55 | September 30, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Interesting...I would hope we're not that obvious...but when we average 11.5 points per game against the Lions and Rams, maybe we are....

Posted by: mattylight | September 30, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

oh and FIRE VINNY!!!!

Posted by: 3hrswasted | September 30, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Call me crazy but I say we should put Marko Mitchell in the game and give him a chance. Marko is confident and cocky....and will fight for the ball.

Why not give it a try?

Posted by: Lisa_R | September 30, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

My god 11.5 points against those 2 teams. I think the anemic Gibbs 2.0 offence when it was at its lowest would have scored more than that.

Posted by: FedorEm | September 30, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

We are obvious... maaaaaan are we obvious.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 30, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

brown, not trying to start stuff with you, but that article is full of factual inaccuracies....I mean, "He took a bunch of years away from football when he retired", which is wrong, he was coaching in college....just seems like a 49ers fan wrote that piece, not a real journalist....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 8:47 AM


Yeah, but this guy did something I'm sure none of us have: sat and had an actual conversation with Zorn. And it sounds like he wasn't even looking into whether he would be a good head coach...Zorn just made it obvious to him that he wouldn't be.

If I'm a beat writer for another team, I don't waste my time writing about another team's hire unless it was REALLY good or REALLY bad. I think the fact that he writes in the Bay Area and felt the need to chime in on this hire speaks volumes in and of itself.

Believe what you want to believe...regardless of his intentions or motivation, dude called it dead on.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Any reviews on Madden 10? The demo stunk. How does the game compare to 09 or 08?

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 30, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

I have a friend, who got it for PS3. Said its going in the same direction it has been for the past 3 years. Game-play is still good and graphics get better every year, but he and I are alike in that we like "customizability" and he says they have restricted that even more then before.

By Customizability we are referring to changing players positions or being able to line up a DE at OLB, in a package, creating you own play-books and plays, he said thats gone. Creating a team, stadium and stuff, he said thats become worse. He said Franchise mode is mostly gone.

TO ME: madden was at its peek in the 04 game if your a Franchise guy/create a team guy. Once NFL gave EA exclusive rights they stopped trying to make it a great game and just made it another game.

Though in Madden 01 had a great create a league mode, where you could make up a league with however many teams you wanted and play it for like 30 seasons. Also in 01 if you played as the 91 thru 72 skins you got to play in RFK.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

DS,
go to IGN for game reviews. They're usually accurate for my taste. Personally I like the new Madden--it's the most realistic yet--but it still needs more polish.

Posted by: pgugino | September 30, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Call me crazy but I say we should put Marko Mitchell in the game and give him a chance. Marko is confident and cocky....and will fight for the ball.

Why not give it a try?

Posted by: Lisa_R | September 30, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I agree. Can it really hurt? Try Marko Mitchell at WR especially in the red zone. Try BMW on those 4th and 1 plays. Supposedly Rhino can run block. We may actually be able to run right with those guys in there. Bench Portis until he is healthy. This is the whole reason we kept Mason right? Let Alridge play on third downs. Devin Thomas should return kicks and punts.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | September 30, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Predator,
you can't fire your coach in Madden 2010 until the next offseason. So either deal with his ugly mug for 1 yr while playing, OR simulate the year and then you can start unf***ing Snyder's work. Make sure you pay attention to your scouting report before you enter the draft, which is much more realistic now.

Posted by: pgugino | September 30, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

I have been having to unf***ing Snyder's work for the better part of 8 years of madden play. -Can I get something like that on a T-Shirt?

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

The last Madden I played was Madden '94 for Super Nintendo.

I was interested in the new one, but I feel like I might be a little overwhelmed with the options.

Posted by: REXskins | September 30, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Lisa=dead on!

Though it was nice to see Moss get some yards, we need to stretch it a bit more... now if we could only put in a QB who could get Marko the ball.... hmmmm....

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 30, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

alex, that is definitely one thing I don't like about the new Madden. You should be able to change players' positions (e.g., OLB to DE or vice versa). That's a realistic trait they've completely ignored lately. I DO like that they've thrown in the wildcat formation, among others.

Posted by: pgugino | September 30, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

After last week, here's what I'm hoping happen this week at practice. It's all about getting the running and play action game going

BMW in for Heyer - May suffer in pass pro a little, although I don't think it'll be a huge drop off. I do think that the running will improve.

More double TE sets and 4 WR sets - the 2 TE set should help to balance the line on run downs, it should also give mismatch in play action. The 4 WR set - ARE has been the best player on offense so far this season. Get him matched up on a LB or S.

Goal Line - IF we have to run it down there, it seems we haven't had any pass play in the game plan so far this year, I'd like to see an unbalanced line with BMW, Samuel, Dock on one side and Sellers leading the way. Better yet, out of that formation do a bootleg to the other side.

Posted by: TWISI | September 30, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Supposedly Rhino can run block. We may actually be able to run right with those guys in there. Bench Portis until he is healthy. This is the whole reason we kept Mason right? Let Alridge play on third downs. Devin Thomas should return kicks and punts.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17

According to the stats someone posted yesterday, we ran right 4 times with good results. Maybe we should try it in the red zone for once.

Using Aldridge on third downs doesn't make sense because he has no experience pass blocking. I would like to see him on a first or second down though.

Completely agree with DT on returns.

Posted by: REXskins | September 30, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

brown, agree to disagree, when you have factual inaccuracies in an article you've written, to me that just lazy journalism, and given this, what makes you think that anything else he wrote is anywhere close to reality.

He didn't research facts for this article, instead he made stuff up that wasn't true, but we're supposed to believe he talked to JZ and then trust his judgement on that alleged conversation??

Really??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Great post RedSkinHead.

Improvisation and halftime adjustments were winning characteristics of past Redskins Teams especially "Gibbs 1".

Zorn seems stuck on the same stuff that is not working and Blache seems to continually want to scheme to what the Offense is doing instead of scheming to allow his Defense to dictate to the Offense.

You have to wonder what Zorn and Blache don't understand about fitting your gameplan to your players strengths and then making in-game adjustments to win games.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 30, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Anyone out there who has customized their Madden version of our beloved team in order to keep their sanity this year. This is the first Madden I've owned since 2001 so I'm not up on the franchise options anymore, so any tips would be appreciated.

Posted by: Predator48 | September 30, 2009 8:55 AM


I got you, Predator.

I got all excited this year because Russ Grimm is in the game. But don't get too excited because they have a generic coach for the sideline shots that looks absolutely nothing like Grimm. So if you don't mind that, you'll be fine.

Grimm helps boost the ratings for your O-line. I had to pull over a couple Hall of Fame guys to shore it up anyway but every bit helps. Norv is usually fired at season's end so you should be able to pick him up as OC. He sends your QB's accuracy ratings thru the roof so it's a wise pick up. Get rid of Blache, he brings down the DL ratings 5 points.

But I went to work immediately unf*cking this mess...promptly moved Orakpo to DE (sent his rating up from 78 to like 84), and in the offseason traded Portis and Moss to Baltimore for draft picks, traded one of the picks to Carolina with the Kelly/Thomas duo for Jonathan Stewart and got Boldin from Arizona. Marko Mitchell got a really generous rating so you're good with him as the #2 receiver.

Enjoy. It's the only joy we'll see as Redskins fans.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

There is nothing wrong with the connection between Kelly and Campbell. Campbell is on pace to pass for 4,200 yards, and he ranks 4th in the league in 1st downs converted via the pass. You don't get much better than that. The only thing missing between them is the red zone connection, and that doesn't come on deep bombs. I could care less who is catching the balls that move the chains, so long as the chains are moving. And they are. This is a piece that's trying to create controversy when there is none. Unless you're talking about the red zone, which wasn't even mentioned here.

Posted by: psps23 | September 30, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/4098/how-i-see-it-stock-watch-2

Nothing like having 2 of the 3 in the falling category. Go Skins, lets shoot for 3 of 3.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 30, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

I think that JC/JZ need to get DT/MK/FD involved, and KEEP them involved all game long. JC locked onto Moss last game, and just wouldn't throw the ball to anyone else....get other guys involved, and keep them involved, don't have 1 guy with 10 catched, and 7 guys with 1 catch...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

On several occasions now I've read JC quotes where he talks about "being smart" or "playing smart" with regards to the passing game.

Translation:

"I'm going to lock in on Santana Moss or Chris Cooley, both of which are proven guys in the league that I trust. If they aren't open, I'm going to check it down.".

Posted by: p1funk | September 30, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

brown, agree to disagree, when you have factual inaccuracies in an article you've written, to me that just lazy journalism, and given this, what makes you think that anything else he wrote is anywhere close to reality.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 9:19 AM


What factual inaccuracies? Because he said he was out of football for a while when he was coaching in college? That is still out of NFL football, which I'm sure is the point of what he's saying.

Once again, you let the verbage get in the way of the point. If there's something else in that article that you know to be inaccurate, please share.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4515011

Rookies that are tearing the league up, strange, no Orakpo on there. What happened to that cat?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 30, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

Here's what I'M hoping happens this week:

We don't give away just about every play that means anything.

We don't roll into the Grilliams Shell whenever we need to stop someone.

LEARN FROM THE FRIKKIN GINAS!!!

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 30, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

I think that JC/JZ need to get DT/MK/FD involved, and KEEP them involved all game long. JC locked onto Moss last game, and just wouldn't throw the ball to anyone else....get other guys involved, and keep them involved, don't have 1 guy with 10 catched, and 7 guys with 1 catch...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

I say take what you can get. If Moss is open throw him the ball every time, that guy has more potential to break it for a TD than anyone else which makes him the go to option any time he's open. When they start paying so much attention to Moss, then the other guys should (in theory) be open. But apparently in the Lions game they never paid enough attention to Moss, and he was open all game. All the better for us if Moss is open all game imo.

Posted by: REXskins | September 30, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Alex, you CAN change player positions again. I do it all the time...I switched Orakpo to DE and you can go back to the old trick of changing a FA's rating to get him for cheaper (i.e.-change Julius Peppers from DE to K...huge rating dip). Franchise mode is the best it's been on PS3 but still not nearly as good as it was on PS2.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

RI Nation:

Wow. You've got to read this...Tim Kawakami is a beat writer for the Raiders and he was all over the Redskins for the Zorn hiring when it happened. The scary thing is this dude called it so completely right, I have lost what little faith I have in Vinny and/or Danny's ability to properly evaluate coaches and players. Read for yourself:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2008/02/11/jim-zorn-to-the-redskins-probably-the-worst-nfl-hire-of-all-time/

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse


OK. Not sure why this is such a gold mine of insight.

Most of the fans I talked to right after the Zorn hiring were pretty much feeling the same way.

Alot of that talk subsided after the 6-2 start, but that seems to be little more than a hiccup - the team looks to have peaked in its first 8 games under Zorn, largely on the strength of the power running game that Gibbs left behind.

Posted by: p1funk | September 30, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

What about JEFF GARCIA??
Any takers?

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I got you, Predator.

I got all excited this year because Russ Grimm is in the game. But don't get too excited because they have a generic coach for the sideline shots that looks absolutely nothing like Grimm. So if you don't mind that, you'll be fine.

Grimm helps boost the ratings for your O-line. I had to pull over a couple Hall of Fame guys to shore it up anyway but every bit helps. Norv is usually fired at season's end so you should be able to pick him up as OC. He sends your QB's accuracy ratings thru the roof so it's a wise pick up. Get rid of Blache, he brings down the DL ratings 5 points.

But I went to work immediately unf*cking this mess...promptly moved Orakpo to DE (sent his rating up from 78 to like 84), and in the offseason traded Portis and Moss to Baltimore for draft picks, traded one of the picks to Carolina with the Kelly/Thomas duo for Jonathan Stewart and got Boldin from Arizona. Marko Mitchell got a really generous rating so you're good with him as the #2 receiver.

Enjoy. It's the only joy we'll see as Redskins fans.

Posted by: brownwood26

Thanks brown,

Do you make those changes in franchise mode? Or can you do this to the default roster. Also do you have to sim a year before you can replace your coach as was previously suggested?

How do you put in a wildcat play, or make Randle El a QB in certain packages?

One more question, when I first put the game in, my xbox updated it. Does that mean I have the latest rosters or do I have to manually do that?

Posted by: Predator48 | September 30, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Here's what I'M hoping happens this week:

Defense either blitzes or fakes blitzes ALL GAME LONG. That's what I see good D's do.

Offense runs more. Never thought I'd say that but we neglected the run completely in the first half against the Lions, and it didn't work.

Posted by: REXskins | September 30, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

What about JEFF GARCIA??
Any takers?

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 9:31 AM |

No!!

Posted by: TWISI | September 30, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

redskinhead "...Let me remind everyone that Kelly was drafted to be the big receiver who could catch the short passes and do something after the catch. His draft status fell because of his poor time in 40 yards."

Not exactly. He was drafted as a big receiver who could 1) jump up and catch balls over shorter DBs, 2)take the extra hits that WCO receivers have to absorb, and 3)take the occasional deep reception the rest of the way for a TD. His 40 time fell because of his leg, and his draft status fell largely because of his injury history. He's a gamble.

The guys drafted to do something with short passes after the catch are Devin Thomas and Fred Davis. The vet who gets that role is Randle El.

"Translation: why would you put your slowest receiver on a deep route? I don't see him getting separation."

It's a good question, but there's an answer. Though Kelly is slower than Moss or Thomas, he's as fast as most safeties and given a head of steam, is fully capable of taking a ball all the way. He doesn't need as much separation as Moss or Randle El because he's a lot bigger.

Michael Irvin wasn't particularly fast, and neither was Jerry Rice. Larry Fitzgerald isn't a burner. Not every team has a guy like Calvin Johnson.

"As for Campbell's comments regarding throwing into coverage, I thought the whole purpose of getting a big receiver is so they can catch the balls in traffic."

'Traffic' isn't the same thing as coverage. You don't want to force balls into areas that are well covered -- that's how you get interceptions. When you can't avoid it -- such as often occurs in the red zone -- that's when a guy like Kelly or Fred Davis should shine.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 30, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

I get so frustrated because I read some really good ideas on here as far as using our players better and putting them in better situations to be successful. I agree with a lot of them, but I know I will never see them on the field cause our owner, fake GM and coach suck.

Posted by: FedorEm | September 30, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

What about JEFF GARCIA??
Any takers?

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

No

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 30, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

You can definitely line up linebackers at DE in Madden. Watch Orakpo's rating increase whe you move him to DE. Go figure, who'duthunkkit?! I have him as my linebacker in the 4-3 and he's set to automatically line-up at DE when I play nickel.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

When we line up in the I-formation, I wish Zorn would give it to Sellers every once in a while (other than short yardage) and make the other team respect him. If all goes well...when we get into the red zone and have a short yardage third and goal or whatever, we could line up in I-formation and have a fake handoff to Sellers and pitch it to Portis running outside (to the RIGHT). Regardless of the specific play, they really need to mix up the running plays and catch these DE's crashing down the line. Bootleg? Reverse? Anything but a run behind Sellers.

Posted by: oh_boy1 | September 30, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

What about JEFF GARCIA??
Any takers?

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 9:31 AM |


Why? Is there a problem with Todd Collins?

Posted by: p1funk | September 30, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Broom closet, huh? That may explain the sound quality of the podcast. Last week, Tracee sounded like she was in a cone of silence and Dan Steinberg as if had the mic jammed against his tonsils. Can't a high quality, classy outfit like the staff of Redskins Insider spring for the audio version of the Geek Squad? Your high quality, classy readers deserve no less, and so do the rest of us.

Posted by: boothintexas | September 30, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Man I wanted us to hire Rex Ryan so bad

Posted by: GreatOne1 | September 30, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2008/02/11/jim-zorn-to-the-redskins-probably-the-worst-nfl-hire-of-all-time/
---------------------------------------

Read the comments section too... Specifically the one by cpp. All of the comments totally bash the author as an idiot. He got basic facts completely wrong!

Zorn is not the problem here. How many times did we used to get irate at Gibbs not taking chances with play calling, at least Zorn has shown willingness.

Again, give the guy some players. An o-line! Any good team should be able to pound it in from the 1 yard line. If you have EVER played football, you would know that. If you are going to fire anyone, Buges... for not being adamant about getting better personnel.

Posted by: jspin77 | September 30, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

What about JEFF GARCIA??
Any takers?

Posted by: ZornInMySide

I'm sure that by week 6, our new coach may consider it.

Posted by: Predator48 | September 30, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"Do you make those changes in franchise mode? Or can you do this to the default roster. Also do you have to sim a year before you can replace your coach as was previously suggested?

How do you put in a wildcat play, or make Randle El a QB in certain packages?

One more question, when I first put the game in, my xbox updated it. Does that mean I have the latest rosters or do I have to manually do that?"

You can make the changes to the roster in your franchise or also to your default rosters from the main menu.

You can't add wildcat plays to the Redskins playbook, but you can use any other playbook in the game. I'd say more than 50% of them have some form of Wildcat, and you can use formation subs to put any number of players at QB. Keep in mind that there are only a few passing plays out of the wildcat in the game, though.

When your game updated, it downloaded the most recent patch. To get the most recent rosters, you have to go to the XBox Live screen. From their, you can download the newest rosters either by playing an online game or by selecting "Depth Chart" from the online menu. New rosters came out last week, there's a good chance of a new roster update coming tomorrow or Friday.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

all i ask is that i see something different this week. i don't care if its better or worse. i just don't want to see the same tired plays and personnel packages. would love to see just the young boys out there. a 3 wr set with kelly, thomas and mitchell, davis at tight end and alridge at rb. just something different. pass heavy and then set up the draw to alridge. run the same draw dallas did 50 times against carolina. it works, especially if you have a quick back like alridge. i want to see him on the field this weekend.

Posted by: brian58 | September 30, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

brown, I'm gonna plagiarize someones comments from that article...not to mention that this was written PRIOR to the 2008 season in which Zorn went 8-8, which kind of flies in the face of him being the worst hire in NFL History doesn't it??

"This is hands-down the worst-researched opinion piece on pro football that I’ve read.

I count at least five articles–just via Google, mind– since the Seahawks’ SB that mention Zorn as being on the road to to being a coordinator and then head coach.

Here’s one:
“Fellow coaches endorse Zorn as ready for his next coaching step, be that as an offensive coordinator or head-coaching gig. Zorn doesn’t disagree, although he knows he may have to leave again for that kind of opportunity.

“That will happen sooner rather than later, too,” Largent says. “He’s the total package, and I wouldn’t have said that three or four years ago. He’s gained experience since then.”

So, it’s hard to fathom that *nobody* was talking about him, when clearly some were, and it’s in the public record, accessible from any internet-connected computer.
Zorn was one of the few people, in fact, that the notoriously controlling Holmgren allowed to design and call plays in his tenure as a HC. (Once again, well-cited) Does that ensure his success? No. But “the worst hire ever”? How do you justify that? By saying that nobody saw him even as a coord…but that’s contra-factual.

Another factual error: you state that Zorn was “out of football” for years before he took the Seattle job. Untrue. He was coaching in college: Boise State, Utah State, and Minnesota. Did you research that before you wrote? Or is it that college coaching doesn’t count? Virtually every NFL HC would be in deep doo-doo if that were true…that’s where one gets a start in the coaching world.

This is an ill-researched op piece based on some bad experience you had with Zorn years ago. The factual errors and clear animus are pretty shameful coming from a beat writer at a major paper and don’t really indicate solid journalism skills at any level"

I'm moving on however.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

If no to Jeff Garcia, then what about Todd Collins?

Lets face it JC sucks and so does Zorn. We need a change and we need it soon. I don't see us squeeking one out this week against the Bucs, but even if we do I am pretty certain that we will quickly be 2 and 3 the following week.

We aren't a playoff team! The season is over so we have two options. Let this thing sink to rock bottom and have a marathon of a swim (several years) back to the surface OR get this thing moving upwards now so that we have some positive momentum to build on next year with our new coach and new QB.

Anyone who thinks that we aren't going to have both a new QB and new coach next year is absolutely kidding themselves. Why wait a year?

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

"Last week, Tracee sounded like she was in a cone of silence and Dan Steinberg as if had the mic jammed against his tonsils."

Haha, hilarious and true. I couldn't listen to that mess.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | September 30, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Thanx Tacos, your name is awesome!

Posted by: Predator48 | September 30, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

I enjoyed that old blog post Brownie, thanks. I remember reading at the time as well.

Help me remember, did we interview Rex Ryan? B/C if we did and didn't hire him b/c of already in fishing waders Blache...well...that was less than smart.

Vinny is a media guy, likes to be on the air and run things. Let him run Snyder's media empire! I even think he would be good at it, and its no small empire...than they can still be bffs, he can fake cover the redskins, give him a raise.

But please for the love of Aphrodite can we get him away from anything football related?!?!?!?!?! I can'

Posted by: chrislarry | September 30, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

On several occasions now I've read JC quotes where he talks about "being smart" or "playing smart" with regards to the passing game.

Translation:

"I'm going to lock in on Santana Moss or Chris Cooley, both of which are proven guys in the league that I trust. If they aren't open, I'm going to check it down.".

Posted by: p1funk | September 30, 2009 9:25 AM

P1funk, I think your translation would be correct. Also, I think that part of the reason he thinks this way is because Zorn allows no flexibility in his play calling.

Campbell has it in his head (wrongly of course) to execute the play that Zorn calls. If the play is not there, then it seems he does not feel comfortable using all the options available on the play.

If he did, you would see more throws to wide open receivers that he now does not even consider when a play is initially covered.

If a QB has weapons in the receiving corps like JC has, he should love it when the play called initially breaks down. With this receiving corps and the proper play calls, 2nd and 3rd options should be killer plays downfield. But...it appears Jason's progression is more of a bailout than actually trying to make a good play.

Some of the greatest QB's and QB play have come when the initial called play is covered and the Quarterback improvises to his other options.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 30, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Alex, you CAN change player positions again. I do it all the time...I switched Orakpo to DE and you can go back to the old trick of changing a FA's rating to get him for cheaper (i.e.-change Julius Peppers from DE to K...huge rating dip). Franchise mode is the best it's been on PS3 but still not nearly as good as it was on PS2.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse
never did that before brown thx for tha tip

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | September 30, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Do you make those changes in franchise mode? Or can you do this to the default roster. Also do you have to sim a year before you can replace your coach as was previously suggested?

How do you put in a wildcat play, or make Randle El a QB in certain packages?

One more question, when I first put the game in, my xbox updated it. Does that mean I have the latest rosters or do I have to manually do that?


Posted by: Predator48 | September 30, 2009 9:32 AM


Yeah, you have to make those changes in franchise mode. You can change Orakpo's position and whatever roster changes you want but the coaching changes have to wait until Season 2. Your best bet is to sim the season but if there's another team you don't mind playing with for a season you could always do that.

The Zorn playbook doesn't have the Wildcat. Since I hired Russ Grimm, I just used the Cardinals/Whisenhunt playbook which does have a few Wildcat plays in it. But since I traded ARE to Arizona as part of the Boldin deal, I've never really used him in that formation.

I've used most of the playbooks and anyone with the Wildcat formation has all run plays. I think only the Dolphins playbook has any plays where you can actually pass out of the Wildcat.

As for roster updates, you have to do that yourself. You can get them online or change them yourself. The update you're talking about is a one-time thing you have to do to format the game to the system. It shouldn't have to do that again.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

gr8fullted: "I know I'm in the minority here, but if you hire a coach with no experience then you have to give him time to learn the job."

Actually, you don't. You can set your coach up to fail by putting all your eggs in one big basket and when they fall through the bottom, grabbing some unknown like Jim Zorn and plopping him in a job he never even applied for.

Snyder owes Zorn some time to develop, but that doesn't mean he'll provide it.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 30, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

campbell will never click with anyone because he is not a good quarterback. unaccurate, erratic and has never led a comeback. please, enough with the excuses for him, go to collins.

Posted by: cavalieri10 | September 30, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Here is Alex Zeese theory on how you can build a good madden franchise (sadly I think its better then Vinny's plan for the skins)

1. Cleaning up the mess: Study your roster before you begin, at the start of your season, if you have guys who you want to trade off, do it by week 6 deadline. Teams will not value their draft picks with a ranking, the computer is still thinking it is a 1st round pick generic, rather then this is pick no 1 in the draft. Trade off the guys who you want to dump anyway to the teams that have bad records as of week 5 or whatever as these picks are likely to be higher picks end of the season.

1-B. Cleaning up the mess: If you have players that are essentially junk, and can't be traded for any good value don't take the cap hit. After you trade off players you didn't want in the beginning of a season use your excess cap room to re-negotiate the contracts of undesired players from the multi year deal down to a 1 year contract. (do this @ week 16 or just before the super bowl) Their cap hit for that season will usually go up however then they will be off contract come the off-season and you can release them with out a cap-penalty. This will let you have more cap room to start building a new franchise and sign rookies.

3. Drafting If you're looking to re-build the line to start your season and there is high ranked lineman in the top 5 of the draft (and you have a top 5 pick) trade back to an appropriate area and get more picks, don't feel locked in on your first pick. its always worth it to get the extra picks. Also, its worth the time to look through other teams rosters and guess where they will draft. Note, this does not usually work with QB's and RB's WR's they are always picked higher then they are ranked.

4. Free Agents pre-draft free agents are going to cost more then they are usually worth in my opinion, but sometimes you need a player at a spot, if you have a plan for when you want your team to be good buy make sure the FA is going to be under 30 by that point I-E if your building for 3 seasons from now, don't pick a 28 year old. post-draft, rather then sort by overall rating, first sort by Age and go throughout he underrated rookies, there is almost always 1 guy who went unsigned that should be a great pickup, though maybe not at a position of need, grab him anyway, worst case you have a high end backup and tradable for the future.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

If no to Jeff Garcia, then what about Todd Collins?

Lets face it JC sucks and so does Zorn. We need a change and we need it soon. I don't see us squeeking one out this week against the Bucs, but even if we do I am pretty certain that we will quickly be 2 and 3 the following week.

We aren't a playoff team! The season is over so we have two options. Let this thing sink to rock bottom and have a marathon of a swim (several years) back to the surface OR get this thing moving upwards now so that we have some positive momentum to build on next year with our new coach and new QB.

Anyone who thinks that we aren't going to have both a new QB and new coach next year is absolutely kidding themselves. Why wait a year?

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

What does this team gain by starting Todd Collins? Todd Collins today is not the same Todd Collins that took the team to the playoffs. Todd Collins is even less of a long term answer than JC.

As depressing as the season has been I don't think you can call your season over after 3 games.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 30, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Help me remember, did we interview Rex Ryan? B/C if we did and didn't hire him b/c of already in fishing waders Blache...well...that was less than smart.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 30, 2009 9:44 AM


I think so, can't remember if it was for HC or DC though...either way they screwed that up.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Alex, you should do a Madden video podcast. That would combine your skills: video/Madden and sly humor.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 30, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Rex Ryan is a clone of his dad. His act will wear thin quickly.

That said, he's still better than anything we've got.

Posted by: Original_etrod | September 30, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Like I said Greg...believe what you want. Regardless of whether his article is Pulitzer-worthy, HE'S RIGHT! No need to show your work if you got the answer right.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

"As for roster updates, you have to do that yourself. You can get them online or change them yourself. The update you're talking about is a one-time thing you have to do to format the game to the system. It shouldn't have to do that again."

There will actually be at least one more update in about 4-6 weeks, when patch #2 comes out. Patch #1 came out about a week ago and fixed a few problems, such as holding penalties being called on field goals nearly every game...It also tightened up man coverage a bit and make fatigue have a bigger affect on player abilities.

Yeah, I'm a nerd for this stuff.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

You can definitely line up linebackers at DE in Madden. Watch Orakpo's rating increase whe you move him to DE. Go figure, who'duthunkkit?! I have him as my linebacker in the 4-3 and he's set to automatically line-up at DE when I play nickel.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

In PS2 you cant move guys in the depth chart to different positions (thats what I meant). Used to be able to have almost anyone play any spot on the roster.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

the guy with the zorn article from the raider guy had it right on.

Posted by: cavalieri10 | September 30, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

redskin,

That comment is why JC will never be a great QB, he is afraid of throwing Int's.

Everybody is covered in this league you have to be able to thread it in there to be great.

Posted by: Flounder21

..............................

Just remember that when he throws a few picks. Our team is built for our offense to manage the game, not go to heroics or take unnecessary chances to win.

The defense is killing us. They're not doing what they were built to do--shut down opposing offenses, get them off the field and get the ball back to our ball control offense so they can burn the clock and put up enough to win. It's the same formula the Ravens used the last time they won the super bowl. They didn't score much and they won ugly, but they won. They won because they're defense payed with an attitude and refused to lose one-on-one match-ups. They were MEAN!

Posted by: scottland7 | September 30, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Maybe Etrod....maybe. Up here in NYC i get a heavy dose of Rex Ryan, he doesn't remind me of Buddy that much. But he is a larger than life type dude so you could be right.

I guess my point is, I would have liked to have seen first hand.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 30, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who saw Smith run up the middle repeatedly for 8 or 9 yards last week knows that our DTs were out of position as run stoppers. As far as I can determine from the chatter, it seems that Haynesworth was free-lancing rather than maintaining gap discipline and that explains the poor performance. If it happens again, then Blache has a real problem...

Posted by: iseyij | September 30, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

I'm also a grammar nerd, so I'm ashamed by my least post. Please ignore any subject/verb disagreement and let it be known that I know the difference between "effect" and "affect."

sigh.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

"In PS2 you cant move guys in the depth chart to different positions (thats what I meant). Used to be able to have almost anyone play any spot on the roster. "

AH! Ok, gotcha. That's weird they would take it out of PS2, but I haven't played a Madden on that system since '06. Weird thing to remove.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Help me remember, did we interview Rex Ryan? B/C if we did and didn't hire him b/c of already in fishing waders Blache...well...that was less than smart.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 30, 2009 9:44 AM


I think so, can't remember if it was for HC or DC though...either way they screwed that up.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 9:50 AM

We did not interview Rex Ryan. He seems to be a good coach but he is arrogant and full of himself.

Posted by: Lisa_R | September 30, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Let me ask this question. Through the first three games, who on this offense who has been playing better than Campbell? I can think of two (ARE, Samuels) maybe a 3rd (Cooley, but I think his run blocking hasn't been up to par). I'd like to see some of you'll suggestions.

Posted by: TWISI | September 30, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

They used to release a roster update up at the end of the season too, didn't they?

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

brown, so Zorn was the worst NFL hire of all time.....of ALL TIME...this is the thing you think this guy is right about....sorry, I just don't buy that..you think Mangini was a better hire in Cleveland....really??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

I guess my point is, I would have liked to have seen first hand.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 30, 2009 9:54 AM

Me too, CL. I'd much rather see "I ain't kissing Belichick's rings" instead of "I called that play to work"...

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

I don't think the Raider beat writer was exactly "spot on." If Zorn was a terrible coach -- one of this worst hires ever as this guy claims -- then we wouldn't have started off 6-2 last season. I think our start last season showed Zorn's offensive philosophy at least in theory can work -- his problem however has been adjusting once the rest of the league got some film on us and found out his MO. That's what Zorn has to do to take the next step. He's got to adjust to what teams are doing to stop us and get DC's back on their heels and guessing again...

Posted by: mattylight | September 30, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"We did not interview Rex Ryan. He seems to be a good coach but he is arrogant and full of himself. "

So he's essentially the same as Greg Blache. Except for the "good coach" part. Hm, yeah, I'd take him.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who saw Smith run up the middle repeatedly for 8 or 9 yards last week knows that our DTs were out of position as run stoppers. As far as I can determine from the chatter, it seems that Haynesworth was free-lancing rather than maintaining gap discipline and that explains the poor performance. If it happens again, then Blache has a real problem...

Posted by: iseyij | September 30, 2009 9:55 AM |

Zorn implied it was the LBs that were not fitting their gaps correctly in the first half.

Posted by: TWISI | September 30, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

"Man I wanted us to hire Rex Ryan so bad
Posted by: GreatOne1"

Rex is a really good defensive coach, and a tremendous character who draws media like flies -- the way his dad did. He was a terrific assistant coach. Even with that great defensive unit in Baltimore, he didn't enjoy anything like unbroken success -- they were 6-10 in '05 and 5-11 in '07 -- the one that got Billick fired. He's having great success with a strong club in NY but we're only 3 games in.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 30, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

PortisPocketsStr8-
The season is OVER. Mark my word for it. It is very easy to call it over too. Particularly if you have watched the past three games.

I will indeed continue to watch and support this team, but I won't do so with the same aspirations as I had three weeks ago. Instead, I will be hoping to see improvement and hanging on to whatever hope that there may be that we don't become "the new Lions".

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Back to real fubball
TWISI,
I would argue that for ALL 3 games no one on O has played with more consistency then 17. Samuels is not run blocking like he used too. can't push his guy back anymore so far as I can tell, and we need to dump him next season or he will be like Jansen last year.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Strange thing - if I remember correctly the Ravens interviewed Rex Ryan but passed on him.

Posted by: Lisa_R | September 30, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"They used to release a roster update up at the end of the season too, didn't they?"

I believe so, but this was also back when they came out with maybe 4 - 5 roster updates each year. Last year they had one every week, and this year they are going to have one every week or two as well, so they're up-to-date at the end of the year and one after the playoffs isn't necessary.

Not sure if they're doing it differently on the PS2, though, but that's how they're rolling on 360 / PS3.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

brown, so Zorn was the worst NFL hire of all time.....of ALL TIME...this is the thing you think this guy is right about....sorry, I just don't buy that..you think Mangini was a better hire in Cleveland....really??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 9:58 AM


Don't use Cleveland as the measuring stick...they've been f*cked since they came back to the league in 1999 and their ownership/front office is about as putrid as ours.

Zorn got a playoff team and made it worse. Can you name me a coach in the NFL you remember making a team progressively WORSE as time went on?

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Just once I would like to see the old counter tre when we go goal line again. When you don't have the beef up front to move someone then stack one side or the other with the counter tre.

Posted by: skinsfan0524 | September 30, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Rex is a really good defensive coach, and a tremendous character who draws media like flies -- the way his dad did. He was a terrific assistant coach. Even with that great defensive unit in Baltimore, he didn't enjoy anything like unbroken success -- they were 6-10 in '05 and 5-11 in '07 -- the one that got Billick fired. He's having great success with a strong club in NY but we're only 3 games in.


Posted by: Samson151 | September 30, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Yeah exactly -- I bet more than a few teams were looking at us at 4-1 last year after beating Philly on the road and thinking "Man I wish we had hired Zorn..." and we know how that has turned out, at least so far...

Posted by: mattylight | September 30, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

"Me too, CL. I'd much rather see "I ain't kissing Belichick's rings" instead of "I called that play to work"...Posted by: brownwood26"

If the Pats had played as well as they did the following week, the Jets would have lost and Rex would have seemed a complete idiot.

Them's the breaks, I guess. It's like Zorn when the Skins won six of their first eight last year -- all that hippy-dippy West Coast stuff sounded a lot smarter to a fan's ears.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 30, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Tacos.....Do you need to subscribe to Xbox live to get roster updates? Or can you get them another way.

Posted by: FedorEm | September 30, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

So he's essentially the same as Greg Blache. Except for the "good coach" part. Hm, yeah, I'd take him.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Blache is overrated. Very Overrated. How about Blache stop playing people out of their normal positions.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 30, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Not sure if they're doing it differently on the PS2, though, but that's how they're rolling on 360 / PS3.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

I still am on PS2, and I'll just say this, they have not made any changes to the game in 3 seasons, its a $50 roster, coaching, uni and stadium update.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Let me ask this question. Through the first three games, who on this offense who has been playing better than Campbell? I can think of two (ARE, Samuels) maybe a 3rd (Cooley, but I think his run blocking hasn't been up to par). I'd like to see some of you'll suggestions.

Posted by: TWISI | September 30, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

HUNTER SMITH!

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

semantics brownie, do you think JZ was the worst hire in the NFL of all time, yes or no.....just answer the question.

Steve Spurrier....memba him...so he's a better hire than JZ....right cuz you agree with the article, which despite the factual inaccuracies, is spot on.....ugh...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Here's my take:

Why cant we have a Redzone package of M. Mitchell, MK12, Moss and Fred Davis and Portis. Three trees out there for JC to throw to, Moss is little and quick for screens, across the middle, etc. and Portis can either run, block or catch a swing pass in the flat.

I dont understand why our WCO is so anemic compared to Eagles and who ever else runs the thing.

I am in complete agreeance that I just want to see something different. There must be some couple hundred plays in that system that dont include end arounds and half back passes...where are they?

And I dont think Blache wants to be here anymore, he doesnt look excited at all, never did, but his eyes and answers to interview questions show, I AM DONE.

Posted by: mhartz1 | September 30, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Strange thing - if I remember correctly the Ravens interviewed Rex Ryan but passed on him.

Posted by: Lisa_R | September 30, 2009 10:04 AM


What does that mean? The Steelers passed on Grimm and Whisenhunt and they've done well elsewhere. And last time I checked, Harbaugh wasn't doing too bad in Ballamer.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

The season is OVER. Mark my word for it. It is very easy to call it over too. Particularly if you have watched the past three games.

I will indeed continue to watch and support this team, but I won't do so with the same aspirations as I had three weeks ago. Instead, I will be hoping to see improvement and hanging on to whatever hope that there may be that we don't become "the new Lions".

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I don't know what aspirations you had three weeks ago. I have watched the games and like I said what I've seen has been depressing.

Do I believe we are watching a playoff team? NO
Do I believe the skins are even a mediocre team at this point? NO

I'm with you on a lot of things, but you can't just blow things up after 2 losses. Give them til the bye week.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 30, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Throwing the deep pass isn't the fault of Zorn? Let me remind everyone that Kelly was drafted to be the big receiver who could catch the short passes and do something after the catch. His draft status fell because of his poor time in 40 yards.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 30, 2009 7:46 AM | Report abuse

When did the Redskins say that's why they drafted him? I think we all just assumed that. He has gotten open deep on several occasions this year, but Campbell has either overthrown him or there was quick pressure and he had to dump it off. He's plent fast enough to get open deep. I saw him blow past Polamalu in the preseason and Campbell underthrew him.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 30, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Rookies that are tearing the league up, strange, no Orakpo on there. What happened to that cat?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000

Not only that cat. Outside of Horton, none of the young guys on the Skins are making any plays. This tells me that the FOs cannot pick any talent or it's the coaching.

I am going to go with coaching at this point. I refuse to believe that the Skins drafted the only three pass catchers in the 2nd rd last year that cannot play in this league.

Zorn does not have a real game plan for the opponents he has played this year. The only way to make other teams respect our young receivers is to game plan them into games. If MK, DT or MM were to have a game like Moss had Sunday then other teams would have to give some respect to the whole passing game.

This is about coaching IMO.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 30, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

"Tacos.....Do you need to subscribe to Xbox live to get roster updates? Or can you get them another way."

Without XBox Live, the only way to update the rosters would be manually, which would be a huge pain. You may be able to save them to a memory card, though, if you have a card and a friend who does have the roster updates on their XBox.

However, I believe you can get the roster updates with XBox Live Silver, which is free. You can create a Silver account and download stuff for games, such as roster updates, just not actually play the game online. If your Xbox can connect to the internet at all, you can create a free account.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Greg, last work on this: Spurrier sucked but at least he could score in the 30s. Zorn has yet to do that. And that is double-damning of Zorn because Spurrier wasn't even trying by the time he got to Year 2 here.

Agree to disagree.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

"Can you name me a coach in the NFL you remember making a team progressively WORSE as time went on?Posted by: brownwood26"

Sure -- most coaches who get fired are accused of doing just that. Most recently the fanz in Tampa would name Jon Gruden and a Denver contingent would nominate Mike Shanahan.

About the '07 Skins being a playoff team -- that's not entirely fair. The Skins struggled all season and got hot under a new QB at the end. The new QB happened to be older than Methuselah so Zorn went back to the previous QB, who had struggled.

The Skins lost that '07 playoff game convincingly...

Posted by: Samson151 | September 30, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

curz, 1000 percent agree with you....gotta get these kids the ball, to see what they can do...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 30, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

"If the Pats had played as well as they did the following week, the Jets would have lost and Rex would have seemed a complete idiot."

Sorry but that is just silly...If and buts/candy and nuts..

I guess the Pats not playing as well had nothing to do with the Jets? They got punched in the mouth Samson, it wasn't just "hey the Pats weren't into playing"

I sometimes think us Skins fans are so punch drunk and drowning in the delusion pool that we have become a million clones of Snyder/Vinny.

Yeah its been only 3 games for Rex. He could still fall flat on that rotund kiester. But I am going out a limb here and saying he'll be fine to great for the Jets and Zorn will be the QB coach for Slippery Rock.

But hey check back with me in three seasons and we'll see.

Oh and BG is right about one thing the Brown Mangidiot hiring has to be any short list of bad hires.

My not so bold prediction of the day: Mangini gets fired earlier in the season than Zorn.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 30, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

Back to real fubball
TWISI,
I would argue that for ALL 3 games no one on O has played with more consistency then 17. Samuels is not run blocking like he used too. can't push his guy back anymore so far as I can tell, and we need to dump him next season or he will be like Jansen last year.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 10:03 AM |

Let me ask this question. Through the first three games, who on this offense who has been playing better than Campbell? I can think of two (ARE, Samuels) maybe a 3rd (Cooley, but I think his run blocking hasn't been up to par). I'd like to see some of you'll suggestions.

Posted by: TWISI | September 30, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

HUNTER SMITH!

Posted by: ZornInMySide | September 30, 2009 10:10 AM


These pots help illustrate my point. Campbell hasn't been the problem on offense, so switching him out won't help its production. I know some of you will say he's not the answer (MrRedskins21) and that may be true down the road, particularly if a new coach is hired, but Campbell clearly gives this team the best chance to win at this current stage in the season.

Posted by: TWISI | September 30, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I think the guy's main point was that there has never been as big a discrepancy in talent between an NFL head coach and his successor as there was between Joe Gibbs and Jim Zorn.

It's all right as a conversation starter -- and it's awfully impressive that he "called" Zorn before the dude had ever donned a maroon and yellow headset -- I do think it's lazy work since there have been scores of head coach transitions in the history of the league, I'm skeptical when someone posits a superlative like "worst of all time".

Just for argument's sake, how about one from the Redskins' coaching history: the dropoff from Vince Lombardi to Bill Austin? I realize there were mitigating circumstances -- Mr. Lombardi's unfortunate passing -- but was Lombardi to Austin that much better than Gibbs to Zorn?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 30, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

If Spurrier had invested in a good D who knows what could have happened. I mean we all know the team would still have been a failure but at what length.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

brown, so Zorn was the worst NFL hire of all time.....of ALL TIME...this is the thing you think this guy is right about....sorry, I just don't buy that..you think Mangini was a better hire in Cleveland....really??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Say what you want about the so-called Man-genius, his resume and background, and apparently his demeanor was/is alot more credible than Zorn's.
Tim Kawakami's point was that Zorn never showed the innate qualities that he thought personnified a good headcoach. The telling point was that he thought Mike Singletary at the time was overlooked as a quality coaching candidate. Fast forward to today and it looks like Tim did know what hell he was talking about.

Posted by: Predator48 | September 30, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter who we would have picked to be coach....everyone is doomed to fail here due to the management/ownership. I still want to think we are a couple of plays (that if they went the other way) away from winning in Detroit, but they didn't so it doesn't matter. Red Zone play calling has to get more creative. And if they want to run it down there, use some imagination and put in the right people.

Posted by: FedorEm | September 30, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Also, I like little chocolate donuts.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 30, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

TWISI, that pot is not helping you make your point, and it may also be affecting your spelling.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 30, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Just an observation. That young new guy for the Giants, Manningham doesn't seem to be having any problems. The only thing he has is a QB that has a little faith in him. Jason Campbell doesn't trust himself much less the other players.

Posted by: theBozyn | September 30, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Tacos. So I just need a buddy to bring the thing that connects the xbox to the internet and create a silver acct. I can do that.

Posted by: FedorEm | September 30, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Sure -- most coaches who get fired are accused of doing just that. Most recently the fanz in Tampa would name Jon Gruden and a Denver contingent would nominate Mike Shanahan.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 30, 2009 10:15 AM


You misunderstand: I didn't say coaches who fade down the stretch in a given season. That's done every year by somebody. The guys you listed made the playoffs, came down to earth and came back up again. I'm talking about a guy falling completely off a cliff.

I mean the exact Redskins team from the start of 2008 to the end of 2008 to now has progressively gotten worse. Same guys. Worse football. I can't remember ever seeing anything like this.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 30, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

"Thanks Tacos. So I just need a buddy to bring the thing that connects the xbox to the internet and create a silver acct. I can do that."

You're welcome. Easier than that, though. You don't need anything extra to hook up the Xbox to the internet. Plug your internet cable in the back of your Xbox and you're good to go online.

Posted by: TotallyTacos | September 30, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

But what innate qualities was the writer looking for? He describes his impression of Zorn as a result of one conversation, and his adjectives to describe Zorn seem to be pretty all encompassing for one conversation. Maybe Zorn thought he was some d-bag reporter for an out-of-town newspaper and blew him off?

I do agree with the word stubborn, and that is going to get Zorn fired faster than anything. When you see something isn't working, you might want to change it.

One more point. Zorn didn't inherit some freaking world class offense that was gaining 400 yards a game and scoring 30 points. He inherited what we see today. I'd like to see some improvement and damn soon, but you can't say "oh Zorn is only giving us 17 points a game" without looking at some of the causes.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 30, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

mhaslup1,
It's a fact that MK does not have breakaway speed. It's a fact that he is the slowest receiver the Redskins have. I'm not down on the guy. I think he's great underneath and catching the ball in traffic. Throw him more passes, just don't throw him any more deep passes until he has clearly established himself underneath. Throw deep to the smallish speedsters and throw underneath to the big guys who can get some yards after the catch. I think throwing deep to MK is just more of Zorn trying to be too clever, by thinking no one will suspect a deep pass to the slow guy. Wrong answer. On that one long pass there were two guys climbing all over him. Now, if we're talking Marko Mitchell, who has some size and some speed, then green lights all the way...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 30, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

How could they possibly click if they never get the opportunity too. Kelly is thrown to like 3 times a game which at least one or two of those are forced deep balls when he's triple covered. The "fade" pass last week was a horrible throw. DT hasn't been thrown to at all except for once or twice a game, in the Rams game for example it was twice, once the pass was 5 yards out of bounds (he still caught it) and the other was a 5 yard pass thrown hard enough to go 75 yards on a line and it hit his forearm before he saw it. Fred Davis, one pass last week, he caught it for a nice gain. I don't understand why we don't give them more opportunities in our real game plan, not just throw to them twice a game and say they're not making plays. Once again, I blame Zorn and this stupid WCO crap that he runs that boils down to the same thing this offense has been for the last 6 years, CP off left tackle, stare down Moss dump to Cooley or ARE if you can before you're sacked. The TD to Moss was beautiful last week, but teams know we try to get the ball to him, they are going to cover him first and foremost, if we don't get other people involved that will only happen every now and then in a blown assignment situation. (Maybe the reason we score a TD a week if we're lucky) To make Moss truly effective again on a consistent basis we have to make our other guys relevant and significant parts of the game plan to force teams to game plan against things other than Cooley and Moss.

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 30, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

On an unrelated note, can anyone else believe we are a touchdown favorite against the Bucs? Will we even score a touchdown? The joke might be on Vegas on this one...

Posted by: mattylight | September 30, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Only thing I will say about that reporter, I agree with what he wrote. BUT

Is a Raiders beat guy going to love a Seahawks QB from back in the day when they were rivals?

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

I'll be the first to admit Campbell's rankings exceed his overall play by a good bit, but for Harrison to call Campbell a backup is just silly. The guy is top 10 in too many areas to toss him into the backup bin.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 30, 2009 2:44 AM |

Campbell is a lot like Leftwich. Strong arm, limited accuracy, limited field vision, exaggerated wind-up, etc. And we all know where he is now. There has been a lot of crit of Zorn's unimaginative play calling. His play calls relflect his intimate knowledge of what Campbell's capabilities are. And as far as I know, the guy (Zorn) does not have a death wish. If he thought Campbell was capable of being a big-play QB (or even a not-so-big-play QB) he would dial them (the plays) up in a heartbeat. Zorn's plan before the roof caved in was to get through the season as best he could with Campbell and then strike out in search of a QB who can do WCO. This was tried in the past offseason and nothing panned out, but the need will have intensified by the end of 2009.

Posted by: GasFace | September 30, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Tacos, what kind of cable usb, coaxial? I 've never tried to hook up the xbox to the net. I got FIOS and my modem is up in my office.

Posted by: FedorEm | September 30, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

TWISI, that pot is not helping you make your point, and it may also be affecting your spelling.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 30, 2009 10:23 AM |


I really need to give that stuff up. I can't seem to be able to concentrate very well today.

Posted by: TWISI | September 30, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

brownwood26,
Absolutely agree with you. Whatever coaching philosophy Zorn is using is just not working. The players are not responding and it shows in the game play. The players may say they believe in the coach because he's a nice guy, but they clearly don't believe in the philosophy.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 30, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

be carful TWISI, after I gave it up I put on close to 60 lbs.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

"His play calls relflect his intimate knowledge of what Campbell's capabilities are"

That must be why Zorn dialed up a friggin hook&ladder to try and win the game right? Because Campbell has a weak arm and couldnt get it to the endzone?

ZORN SUCKS

the whole league knew it and that's why he never even sniffed a coordinator position.

Last years' 6-2 start was the remnants of the "fight your guts out" gibb2 era. Now we have the coach telling the players after every loss how good they really are, and how close they are to blowing people out. It's crap, and results in the players never feeling like they were beaten.

Listen to Moss, Portis, and Cooley for examples. DELUSIONAL

Posted by: divi3 | September 30, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

alex, if you have 60 lbs, you do not give it up til after you finished all of it.

Posted by: Curzon417 | September 30, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Beeps

Posted by: TWISI | September 30, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Curz,

nope its a simple bit of math that I realized after the fact.

You stop smoking and your going to probably replace it with more drinking.

Average beer 153 calories. Average joint 0 calories.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 30, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

But what innate qualities was the writer looking for? He describes his impression of Zorn as a result of one conversation, and his adjectives to describe Zorn seem to be pretty all encompassing for one conversation. Maybe Zorn thought he was some d-bag reporter for an out-of-town newspaper and blew him off?

I know that right now, Singletary looks a hell of alot better as a coach than Zorn does. Take into account that when he was hired, nobody had Zorn pegged as anything more than an OC at best, and his own organization at the time (Seahawks) wasn't interested in keeping him.
All of this lends to the writer's credibility at this time. Maybe in 8 weeks, a miracle happens and proves Kawakami and everything I've said, totally wrong, but at this point, the evidence is mounting against the Z man IMO.

Posted by: Predator48 | September 30, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

In the off season all the talk was about Campbell. I think Campbell has been very steady and is at the top of the league in many stats so far. 9th passer rating 92.5, 5th completion percentage 67.6%.

Is Horton our best DB? Rogers and Hall look horrible, and Landry just is reckless in a bad way.

I also think Haynesworth is doing fine so far all things considered. The D-line is fine, the linebackers are doing well (Orakpo is looking a little shaky as a LB), our DB's stink and are the weakness of our D.

On the other hand, I do think our offense is getting better. The O Line stinks, consequently our running game is in neutral. I think we should give Alridge a couple carries (fumbleitis or not). Campbell does seem to have a bunch of weapons, on any given week he can hit a number of targets. If the youngsters get going I think the O will (surprisingly) end up being the strength of this team.

Maybe we should try to trade Landry for a couple picks, he may be our best bargaining chip at this point. Just some opinions guys!

What do you think???????

Posted by: meepres | September 30, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

RI Nation:

Wow. You've got to read this...Tim Kawakami is a beat writer for the Raiders and he was all over the Redskins for the Zorn hiring when it happened. The scary thing is this dude called it so completely right, I have lost what little faith I have in Vinny and/or Danny's ability to properly evaluate coaches and players. Read for yourself:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2008/02/11/jim-zorn-to-the-redskins-probably-the-worst-nfl-hire-of-all-time/

Posted by: brownwood26 |


Thanks. That's so spot on it's hard to believe it wasn't post-dated.

And the MOST discouraging aspect of it is remember, when Zorn gets fired, guess who gets to choose who replaces him?

Yup. Same dolts.

Posted by: TheCork | September 30, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

But what innate qualities was the writer looking for? He describes his impression of Zorn as a result of one conversation, and his adjectives to describe Zorn seem to be pretty all encompassing for one conversation. Maybe Zorn thought he was some d-bag reporter for an out-of-town newspaper and blew him off?

POSTED BY: Predator 48

What a specious argument you make here. And based on just one reading of an article, I'd guess. Whether Tim K. interviewed him once, or in depth, or just intuited it is irrelevant. He got it exactly right.

And if you read the article, you'd see he did due diligence by checking myriad other sources for their opinions on Zorn.

The lengths some people will go to here to attack paid writers continues to be mind boggling.

Posted by: TheCork | September 30, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"You misunderstand: I didn't say coaches who fade down the stretch in a given season. That's done every year by somebody. The guys you listed made the playoffs, came down to earth and came back up again. I'm talking about a guy falling completely off a cliff." brownwood26

The guys I mentioned -- Gruden and Shanahan -- were excoriated by fans (and eventually fired by owners) for what amounts to an in-season losing streak. I probably could have included Eric Mangini in that group, too. Gruden and Shanahan had Super Bowls in their pasts; Mangini had NE on his resume.

At the moment, the fans in Denver are thinking they don't miss Shanahan and the fans in Tampa are realizing Gruden wasn't the problem. The fans in NY think Rex Ryan is the second coming of Vince Lombardi and the fans in Cleveland are wondering if maybe Romeo Crennel wasn't the problem after all.

That's fanz for ya. When things go well, they're on top of the world; when the worm turns, they've never seen anything like it.

Posted by: Samson151 | September 30, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Hey Brownwood, I read that article from the Raiders guy and I think he was essentially right.

What tickled me was the number of comments underneath that were obviously from Skins fans attacking him, they resurfaced in October/November 2008 when the Skins were riding high and then...

...nothing,until a couple of days ago. Why was that again? :-)

Greg, you can choose to interpret his "out of football" statement to mean he never went near a football field at any level for 10 years, or simply "out of the NFL". Each is equally valid but only one allows a charge of factual inaccuracy. I have no reason to think he meant the former, but then I don't have an agenda when I'm reading his post.

And you certainly can't use the "worse than Mangini in Cleveland?" argument, as that hadn't yet happened when this article was written (that's me wilfully misinterpreting you now of course).

I spent an hour in the car with a rabid Skins fan (and former season ticket holder of 26 years) while he berated the current situation. I was happy to counsel him as I have learned many tricks to help me deal with the continuing path of grief and futility that is the lot of the Fins fan, but man, he even wore me down by the end!

The new broom sweeps clean, I think that should be the Skins mantra from now on. This cr*p is "zorn, all zorn", start again.

Posted by: Redcoat | September 30, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

How can both Kelley and Thomas not be used in our system? Basically if its 3rd and 10, throw a check down pass to one of them for a 3 yard gain. Isn't that what our offense is all about nowadays anyway!

Posted by: joeboggs | September 30, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Here's what Campbell should have said to Kelly:

"If you want to catch a pass from me, you better get wide open 5-15 yards in front of me in the middle of the field, because I can't throw down the sideline, I can't throw fade passes, I can not throw deep passes with any accuracy and I do not under any circumstances throw into tight single coverage like every other QB in the league. That is why we were dead last in pass interference calls last year and why I only threw 13 TDs. Any questions?"

Posted by: saqster | September 30, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Redskin plane spotted in New England. Rumor has it that we get both Brady and Belichick. Snyder rules!!!

Posted by: VegasJim | September 30, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Zorn has a "defeatist" attitude and the whole team is buying into his "defeatist" attitude. How many times are we going to hear "the defense took a player out of the game" "we have to take what's there". Do you think that Payton Manning and the colts will take what's there or just accept that they cannot utilize a receiver because the opponent is taking him out. No they will make an adjustment to get that receiver the ball. The colts will dictate their offense to the defense. The skins don't attack on either side of the ball, they "REACT"

Posted by: pennstate1 | September 30, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Zorn has a "defeatist" attitude and the whole team is buying into his "defeatist" attitude. How many times are we going to hear "the defense took a player out of the game" "we have to take what's there". Do you think that Payton Manning and the colts will take what's there or just accept that they cannot utilize a receiver because the opponent is taking him out. No they will make an adjustment to get that receiver the ball. The colts will dictate their offense to the defense. The skins don't attack on either side of the ball, they "RE-ACT"

Posted by: pennstate1 | September 30, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

You guys who want Zorn fired. What do you think Snyder is going to actually make a good hire next time? What gave you that idea?

Posted by: Redskins001 | September 30, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Kelly seems to make nice catches when the ball is actually thrown to him.

Posted by: Redskins001 | September 30, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

How about JC getting him the "Damn Ball", he's got the talent. Campbell needs to stop watching balls hit him in the facemask and make it happen, this mess is no reflection on Kelly!!!!

Posted by: blackhills1 | September 30, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Snyder has no real choice for a number of reasons but to let Zorn finish out the season. First, there is no one on the staff who is capable of being the head coach and please don't say Joe Bugel who is pushing 70 and has major problems to deal with on the O-Line. None of the other assistants or coordinators have any head coaching experience or would even be considered candidates at this point.

Also, Snyder realizes that his best chance of hiring a big name (Shanahan, Cowher, Gruden, Holmgren) is to show that he was patient with the new coach and gave him every chance to succeed and then had no choice but to take the team in another direction. Lastly, Snyder needs to rid himself of his yes man Cerrato and hire a real football GM to hire the coach. Once he's hired the real GM, stay out of all football related decisions and focus on recapturing the good faith of the fan base that you've alienated.

Posted by: wizfan89 | September 30, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

The writer tim kawakami really exposed zorn as the fraud he really is and snyder and cerrato hired this "loser" . these fools cannot and will not hire any coach who can actually coach,they want a idiot and yes-man, they are NOT interested in winning just making money. boy-cott this team and everything that goes with it until snyder and cerrato are driven out of washington stop being SUCKERS..cut these IDIOTS LOOSE.

Posted by: wathu19 | September 30, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

I forgot: good post brownwood 26 you are really on these morons.

Posted by: wathu19 | September 30, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Still waiting for Kelly, Campbell to click?

I can sympathize with you, I am still waiting to hit the Lotto. I am sorry to say, but I think I have a better chance.
I think I will try changing numbers, maybe you should try changing QBs.

Posted by: hock1 | September 30, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

check out the latest skins coverage here

http://www.csnwashington.com/pages/main

Posted by: nattylite88 | September 30, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

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